1
00:00:15,476 --> 00:00:15,956
Speaker 1: Pushkin.

2
00:00:20,356 --> 00:00:22,676
Speaker 2: Last week we went back and replayed my conversation with

3
00:00:22,796 --> 00:00:26,116
Speaker 2: Usher to celebrate his Super Bowl performance and the incredible

4
00:00:26,156 --> 00:00:28,996
Speaker 2: career resurgence he's had over the last couple of years.

5
00:00:29,316 --> 00:00:31,796
Speaker 2: In thinking about our back catalog of episodes, I thought

6
00:00:31,836 --> 00:00:35,836
Speaker 2: there was another conversation worth revisiting, Malcolm Gladwell speaking with

7
00:00:35,876 --> 00:00:38,716
Speaker 2: Ziggy Marley about the cultural influence the tiny country of

8
00:00:38,756 --> 00:00:41,276
Speaker 2: Jamaica and Ziggy's dad, Bob Marley, have had over the

9
00:00:41,356 --> 00:00:44,596
Speaker 2: last half a century. The Bob Marley bio Pick One Love,

10
00:00:44,636 --> 00:00:47,636
Speaker 2: was released in theaters yesterday. I hope anyone familiar with

11
00:00:47,676 --> 00:00:49,876
Speaker 2: the Bob Marley name or his music will go see

12
00:00:49,876 --> 00:00:51,756
Speaker 2: it at some point if I wanted to keep the

13
00:00:51,756 --> 00:00:54,716
Speaker 2: conversation about his songs and his political thinking alive and

14
00:00:54,756 --> 00:00:58,756
Speaker 2: to guard against his legacy becoming further Whitewashington commercialized, which

15
00:00:59,236 --> 00:01:02,796
Speaker 2: feels increasingly inevitable as the years after his death continue on.

16
00:01:03,516 --> 00:01:06,036
Speaker 2: So have a listen to Malcolm's conversation with Ziggy from

17
00:01:06,036 --> 00:01:08,556
Speaker 2: a couple of years back, see the movie Spend some

18
00:01:08,636 --> 00:01:11,076
Speaker 2: Time with Males catalog and some of the other great

19
00:01:11,116 --> 00:01:13,916
Speaker 2: Jamaican music from that time, from Prince Buster to Alton

20
00:01:13,956 --> 00:01:20,516
Speaker 2: Ellis and beyond. This is broken record liner notes for

21
00:01:20,636 --> 00:01:21,476
Speaker 2: the digital age.

22
00:01:21,676 --> 00:01:22,676
Speaker 1: I'm justin Richmond.

23
00:01:23,556 --> 00:01:27,516
Speaker 2: Here's Malcolm Gladwell and Ziggy Marley. This conversation was taped

24
00:01:27,676 --> 00:01:30,516
Speaker 2: live as part of the Live Talks Los Angeles series.

25
00:01:31,956 --> 00:01:34,956
Speaker 1: This book that you've done, with all of these photos

26
00:01:34,956 --> 00:01:37,956
Speaker 1: of your father, it had a kind of personal residence

27
00:01:37,956 --> 00:01:40,796
Speaker 1: for me because, as you may know, my mom is

28
00:01:40,876 --> 00:01:44,156
Speaker 1: Jamaican and when I was growing up in the seventies,

29
00:01:44,716 --> 00:01:47,796
Speaker 1: we would go to Jamaica every year every Christmas and

30
00:01:47,836 --> 00:01:50,316
Speaker 1: all these so many of these photos are from the

31
00:01:50,396 --> 00:01:53,236
Speaker 1: Jamaica that I remember as a kid. It's funny, It's like,

32
00:01:53,476 --> 00:01:55,596
Speaker 1: I mean, it's very personal for you, but in this

33
00:01:55,676 --> 00:01:58,956
Speaker 1: weird indirect way, it's personal for me too. You know

34
00:01:59,036 --> 00:02:00,836
Speaker 1: how when you look at a photo of Jamaica, you

35
00:02:00,836 --> 00:02:05,876
Speaker 1: can smell Jamaica. I could smell I could smell Jamaica again,

36
00:02:05,916 --> 00:02:08,956
Speaker 1: It's this lovely like took me back to my childhood.

37
00:02:09,316 --> 00:02:10,876
Speaker 1: What led you to want to do this book?

38
00:02:11,516 --> 00:02:13,756
Speaker 3: So over the years we've we've collected a lot of

39
00:02:13,796 --> 00:02:18,196
Speaker 3: photographs of Bob. I'm from different photographers and stuff like that.

40
00:02:19,356 --> 00:02:22,516
Speaker 3: And you know, usually I think the photographs you say

41
00:02:22,516 --> 00:02:25,556
Speaker 3: a Bob are iconic photographs. You know, you always see

42
00:02:25,556 --> 00:02:29,836
Speaker 3: the iconic images, and so for this, we came upon

43
00:02:29,916 --> 00:02:33,476
Speaker 3: the seven the fifth at birthday anniversary, and I felt like,

44
00:02:33,556 --> 00:02:36,196
Speaker 3: let's do some special for the seven fifth. Let's take

45
00:02:36,236 --> 00:02:39,756
Speaker 3: some of these photos archives and put together a photobook.

46
00:02:40,076 --> 00:02:42,036
Speaker 3: The family has never done one before, other people have

47
00:02:42,116 --> 00:02:44,836
Speaker 3: done one. Then I'm totally understand. Always said when you

48
00:02:44,956 --> 00:02:48,476
Speaker 3: talk about you smell Jamaica the photos because during the book,

49
00:02:49,236 --> 00:02:51,316
Speaker 3: like it brought me back to that time too, you know,

50
00:02:51,716 --> 00:02:54,796
Speaker 3: looking at it just it's like it's such a it's

51
00:02:54,836 --> 00:02:59,236
Speaker 3: such a real experience, a real thing that when I

52
00:02:59,276 --> 00:03:01,716
Speaker 3: was looking at the photos, it, you know, everything just

53
00:03:01,796 --> 00:03:02,676
Speaker 3: kind of came back to me.

54
00:03:03,436 --> 00:03:07,436
Speaker 1: Yeah, when you say, I was just thinking logistically, you said,

55
00:03:07,676 --> 00:03:10,316
Speaker 1: this is really the family's book. There's so many of you.

56
00:03:10,396 --> 00:03:13,356
Speaker 1: How on earth did you guys? Did you guys coordinate

57
00:03:13,716 --> 00:03:16,276
Speaker 1: picking all of these photos? Did you have like a

58
00:03:16,636 --> 00:03:19,556
Speaker 1: family counsel where you all sat down and went through them?

59
00:03:20,556 --> 00:03:20,796
Speaker 4: No?

60
00:03:20,796 --> 00:03:23,556
Speaker 3: No, well I was given a task. I was given

61
00:03:23,636 --> 00:03:25,636
Speaker 3: that responsibility of going through the photos.

62
00:03:25,636 --> 00:03:26,116
Speaker 4: That's all we do.

63
00:03:26,276 --> 00:03:29,956
Speaker 3: Kind of delegate responsibilities. Yeah, you know, everybody, this is

64
00:03:29,996 --> 00:03:32,836
Speaker 3: your project, your you have you have the family's approval

65
00:03:32,876 --> 00:03:33,396
Speaker 3: and blessing.

66
00:03:33,676 --> 00:03:35,236
Speaker 4: Is your project, go ahead and do it, you know.

67
00:03:35,676 --> 00:03:38,916
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, tell me about your your memories of your father.

68
00:03:39,076 --> 00:03:42,196
Speaker 1: You so, you're born in sixty eight, so you when

69
00:03:42,236 --> 00:03:44,156
Speaker 1: he dies, you're you're just a teenager.

70
00:03:44,796 --> 00:03:46,596
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was going on thirteen.

71
00:03:47,036 --> 00:03:48,996
Speaker 1: Yeah, tell me tell me a little bit about what

72
00:03:49,076 --> 00:03:50,116
Speaker 1: you remember of your father.

73
00:03:51,076 --> 00:03:53,956
Speaker 3: Well everything, I mean, they's not'ing to forget really, because

74
00:03:54,356 --> 00:03:57,756
Speaker 3: the limited experience we've had with him, you know, everything

75
00:03:57,876 --> 00:04:03,196
Speaker 3: was memorable and left everlasting impact on my psyche. You know,

76
00:04:03,356 --> 00:04:06,236
Speaker 3: I said everything it was like going to school, but

77
00:04:06,316 --> 00:04:08,116
Speaker 3: a different type of school, you know, I said, like

78
00:04:08,636 --> 00:04:11,916
Speaker 3: so growing not put bob. I mean, there was different elements.

79
00:04:11,956 --> 00:04:14,596
Speaker 3: It was fun side, happicide and clear on the children.

80
00:04:14,956 --> 00:04:18,236
Speaker 4: We will travel to the countryside, this hometown every now

81
00:04:18,236 --> 00:04:20,476
Speaker 4: and again. I didn't fun. I remember those days. They

82
00:04:20,476 --> 00:04:21,116
Speaker 4: were no seats.

83
00:04:21,236 --> 00:04:22,836
Speaker 3: He would have been a lap in the front seat

84
00:04:23,316 --> 00:04:24,996
Speaker 3: or seat no no, no ear back.

85
00:04:25,756 --> 00:04:30,236
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I believe it. I remember that Jamaica in

86
00:04:30,276 --> 00:04:33,316
Speaker 1: the back of the Volkswagen Beetle driven by my uncle.

87
00:04:33,956 --> 00:04:35,516
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah.

88
00:04:35,556 --> 00:04:37,396
Speaker 4: My my mom had one of those two. She had

89
00:04:37,436 --> 00:04:38,516
Speaker 4: one of those Beatles too.

90
00:04:38,636 --> 00:04:39,196
Speaker 1: Yeah.

91
00:04:39,276 --> 00:04:43,316
Speaker 3: Yeah, But I mean and then there was a serious side.

92
00:04:43,316 --> 00:04:45,636
Speaker 3: It was what I saw was a lot of discipline.

93
00:04:46,116 --> 00:04:46,516
Speaker 4: This money.

94
00:04:46,556 --> 00:04:48,636
Speaker 3: I love work hard this mane, I love discipline, this money.

95
00:04:48,956 --> 00:04:55,036
Speaker 3: He's from the countryside and he's so rute rooted in

96
00:04:55,076 --> 00:04:58,836
Speaker 3: his humility that for him to call back to his

97
00:04:58,916 --> 00:05:01,436
Speaker 3: home towne I go back to trenchtone in the ghetto.

98
00:05:02,036 --> 00:05:04,596
Speaker 4: It was like, it's just it's just Bob. This is

99
00:05:04,636 --> 00:05:06,076
Speaker 4: just Bob. It's not like Bob.

100
00:05:05,836 --> 00:05:10,276
Speaker 3: The the superstar or whatever, you know, It's just bib So.

101
00:05:10,676 --> 00:05:14,276
Speaker 3: I mean lots of socle, lots of football, socle music,

102
00:05:14,316 --> 00:05:17,716
Speaker 3: socle music, and the spiritual side of it was very

103
00:05:17,756 --> 00:05:21,356
Speaker 3: powerful thing. And as love having Bible. And he would

104
00:05:21,396 --> 00:05:24,636
Speaker 3: take me and my brother Steve into this what you

105
00:05:24,676 --> 00:05:26,676
Speaker 3: call him. It's like service, like you know people got

106
00:05:26,676 --> 00:05:29,116
Speaker 3: to church service, or people go to the synagague or

107
00:05:29,156 --> 00:05:31,756
Speaker 3: the masque. When we had these thing called naia bingis

108
00:05:31,796 --> 00:05:33,556
Speaker 3: and we would it would be like some weird time

109
00:05:33,596 --> 00:05:33,996
Speaker 3: at night.

110
00:05:34,076 --> 00:05:35,836
Speaker 4: And it was such a mystical.

111
00:05:35,956 --> 00:05:37,596
Speaker 3: That's why I said it left such an impression on

112
00:05:37,636 --> 00:05:40,996
Speaker 3: me as a child, because it was such a the

113
00:05:41,116 --> 00:05:45,516
Speaker 3: not being was such a mystical thing, you know, smoke, fire, drums, singing,

114
00:05:45,636 --> 00:05:49,996
Speaker 3: chanting and a whole spiritual vibe, you know. So yeah,

115
00:05:50,036 --> 00:05:51,556
Speaker 3: you know, we go up in that kind of environment

116
00:05:51,596 --> 00:05:54,516
Speaker 3: where every memory really is stuck with us, and the

117
00:05:54,596 --> 00:05:56,396
Speaker 3: memory is stuck with us more than just a memory.

118
00:05:56,716 --> 00:06:01,316
Speaker 3: It stuck with us as like I experience that has

119
00:06:01,436 --> 00:06:05,276
Speaker 3: kind of molded us into who we are today. You know,

120
00:06:05,916 --> 00:06:08,356
Speaker 3: is a It's a really heavy thing, you know, it's heavy.

121
00:06:08,636 --> 00:06:11,196
Speaker 1: Yeah. The other part of it that's fastening to me,

122
00:06:11,396 --> 00:06:15,196
Speaker 1: as I said earlier, was the Jamaica of that period,

123
00:06:15,876 --> 00:06:18,156
Speaker 1: which is Jamaica in the seventies. So many of these

124
00:06:18,156 --> 00:06:19,956
Speaker 1: photos are about Jamaica in the seventies, and Jamaican in

125
00:06:19,996 --> 00:06:25,996
Speaker 1: the seventies is an intense place. I mean, politics is

126
00:06:26,316 --> 00:06:30,116
Speaker 1: manly in Siaga, and there's violence, and there's gun court,

127
00:06:30,156 --> 00:06:34,836
Speaker 1: and there's reggae and there's you know, don Quarry winning

128
00:06:34,836 --> 00:06:36,636
Speaker 1: gold medal. I mean, it's just sort of like there's

129
00:06:36,636 --> 00:06:38,276
Speaker 1: so I remember go there as a kid. It's just

130
00:06:38,276 --> 00:06:41,516
Speaker 1: like so much. I was coming from rural Canada where

131
00:06:41,556 --> 00:06:45,956
Speaker 1: nothing happened, to a place where everything was happening. Can

132
00:06:45,996 --> 00:06:47,316
Speaker 1: you talk a little bit about that. I mean, you

133
00:06:47,316 --> 00:06:50,156
Speaker 1: were in the epicenter of this because your father was

134
00:06:50,156 --> 00:06:53,396
Speaker 1: at the was the kind of in the middle of

135
00:06:53,396 --> 00:06:54,476
Speaker 1: the of the maelstream.

136
00:06:55,236 --> 00:06:57,676
Speaker 3: Yeah, there were certain minor posts that I can like

137
00:06:57,796 --> 00:07:03,436
Speaker 3: remember about the seventies, especially the more turbulent times the politics.

138
00:07:03,516 --> 00:07:08,436
Speaker 3: So we can go back. I remember the night my

139
00:07:08,436 --> 00:07:12,076
Speaker 3: appearents verse, right. I remember before my mom left to

140
00:07:12,076 --> 00:07:14,156
Speaker 3: go to Ursus. I was like, yo, Mommy, take.

141
00:07:14,036 --> 00:07:14,436
Speaker 4: Me to Earth.

142
00:07:14,476 --> 00:07:15,956
Speaker 3: I wanted to go. I wanted to go to use

143
00:07:15,996 --> 00:07:18,236
Speaker 3: and said no, like you have school tomorrow. And I

144
00:07:18,276 --> 00:07:20,356
Speaker 3: was like very like angry that she never let me

145
00:07:20,396 --> 00:07:23,396
Speaker 3: go to Ursers. And then, you know, looking back after

146
00:07:23,876 --> 00:07:26,076
Speaker 3: the shoot, I think she probably.

147
00:07:25,676 --> 00:07:28,156
Speaker 4: It was a good decision, right. So I remember that night.

148
00:07:28,196 --> 00:07:33,276
Speaker 3: I remember she leaving and we went to bed, right,

149
00:07:33,356 --> 00:07:36,116
Speaker 3: But in the middle of the night, some police came

150
00:07:36,156 --> 00:07:38,356
Speaker 3: to the house and like grabbed us up and like

151
00:07:39,036 --> 00:07:41,156
Speaker 3: there's a lot of you know, like chaos, and like

152
00:07:41,276 --> 00:07:43,716
Speaker 3: let's go move, let's go, let's go get the kids

153
00:07:43,756 --> 00:07:45,636
Speaker 3: them out of the house, and they drove us to.

154
00:07:45,716 --> 00:07:47,836
Speaker 4: Wherever we were going. We never know. I was just

155
00:07:47,876 --> 00:07:52,236
Speaker 4: like this, I was like, the fuck this year? What

156
00:07:52,396 --> 00:07:53,676
Speaker 4: is seventy seventy six?

157
00:07:53,876 --> 00:07:57,556
Speaker 3: But you're about geting the assassination seventy six y So

158
00:07:58,276 --> 00:08:01,516
Speaker 3: Another more impacerful experience was with my mom. Actually we're

159
00:08:01,516 --> 00:08:03,196
Speaker 3: talking about the seventies and what was going on there,

160
00:08:03,236 --> 00:08:06,796
Speaker 3: the political upheaval and just you know, the drama and everything.

161
00:08:06,876 --> 00:08:10,156
Speaker 4: So my some my mom pick us up from school.

162
00:08:10,156 --> 00:08:11,916
Speaker 3: This was during the height of the there was a

163
00:08:11,956 --> 00:08:14,876
Speaker 3: big protest going on political They were blacking the roads,

164
00:08:15,316 --> 00:08:17,676
Speaker 3: fire burning, tires burning in the streets.

165
00:08:18,036 --> 00:08:19,876
Speaker 4: So my mom picked us up from school in.

166
00:08:20,156 --> 00:08:25,116
Speaker 3: The Beatle in the vub's driving us home and we

167
00:08:25,236 --> 00:08:26,076
Speaker 3: come up on our road back.

168
00:08:26,076 --> 00:08:28,756
Speaker 4: Okay, okay, I get home. We're not too far from home.

169
00:08:28,556 --> 00:08:32,436
Speaker 3: But we can pass because these guys there, there's tires burning,

170
00:08:32,796 --> 00:08:35,556
Speaker 3: and these guys are like and I remember being in

171
00:08:35,556 --> 00:08:36,836
Speaker 3: a back seat and watching my mother.

172
00:08:37,036 --> 00:08:39,236
Speaker 4: She came out of the car and she confronted these

173
00:08:39,276 --> 00:08:41,516
Speaker 4: guys in a very bridge brave.

174
00:08:41,596 --> 00:08:44,516
Speaker 3: I mean, it's brave what she did, like stand up

175
00:08:44,516 --> 00:08:48,036
Speaker 3: and say, yo, know whatever I do. She cursed and

176
00:08:48,076 --> 00:08:50,316
Speaker 3: she tacked them down, and they kind of like, okay,

177
00:08:50,556 --> 00:08:52,396
Speaker 3: I'm kind of part part of the road back and

178
00:08:52,436 --> 00:08:55,516
Speaker 3: we drove through. So that's that's another memory that's like

179
00:08:56,036 --> 00:09:01,596
Speaker 3: from remember that time and the turbulent political situation. Those

180
00:09:01,676 --> 00:09:04,436
Speaker 3: two mile posts is what I go back to but

181
00:09:04,996 --> 00:09:06,796
Speaker 3: I mean there was good times to man, you know

182
00:09:06,796 --> 00:09:09,396
Speaker 3: what I mean, I mean going back to change, don't

183
00:09:09,396 --> 00:09:13,276
Speaker 3: playing football. You know, it was a very double edged

184
00:09:13,316 --> 00:09:15,396
Speaker 3: sword that period of time because it was so good too.

185
00:09:15,916 --> 00:09:17,796
Speaker 4: The vibe, the energy of the music.

186
00:09:18,316 --> 00:09:22,036
Speaker 3: There's so much live and there's so much revolutionary like change,

187
00:09:22,076 --> 00:09:24,516
Speaker 3: you know, like it's the same time Bob and Clyde

188
00:09:24,636 --> 00:09:27,756
Speaker 3: muss Up, who was a strong man or a strong

189
00:09:27,876 --> 00:09:32,036
Speaker 3: arm the political function and Bucking Marshall, they came together

190
00:09:32,036 --> 00:09:34,676
Speaker 3: and were starting to kind of dis owned the politics.

191
00:09:34,676 --> 00:09:35,396
Speaker 4: And I was there too.

192
00:09:35,476 --> 00:09:37,556
Speaker 3: I met I met all of these guys take live

193
00:09:38,036 --> 00:09:41,476
Speaker 3: and I knew, I knew what was happening, and I

194
00:09:41,556 --> 00:09:43,716
Speaker 3: kind of but actually when I got later and I

195
00:09:43,756 --> 00:09:46,076
Speaker 3: kind of understand who these guys were because I just

196
00:09:46,076 --> 00:09:48,836
Speaker 3: saw them as guys, as Bob's friends, and I know

197
00:09:48,916 --> 00:09:51,116
Speaker 3: they were meeting and talking and blah blah blah. But

198
00:09:51,596 --> 00:09:53,516
Speaker 3: when I grew up, I realized these guys were some

199
00:09:53,636 --> 00:09:57,116
Speaker 3: dangerous men. They weren't just like some love. These guys

200
00:09:57,116 --> 00:10:00,876
Speaker 3: were some serious guys, you know. So that is yeah,

201
00:10:00,876 --> 00:10:01,516
Speaker 3: that is the world.

202
00:10:01,556 --> 00:10:02,316
Speaker 4: That is the world. You know.

203
00:10:02,476 --> 00:10:05,516
Speaker 1: Back in the seventies, I remember funny you talk about

204
00:10:05,516 --> 00:10:08,236
Speaker 1: your mother and that bla black. My grandfather telling me

205
00:10:08,316 --> 00:10:10,716
Speaker 1: that he driving down the road and there'd be a roadblock,

206
00:10:10,916 --> 00:10:12,596
Speaker 1: and he got really good at guessing whether it was

207
00:10:12,676 --> 00:10:16,316
Speaker 1: j LP or pn P, the two two parties. So

208
00:10:17,076 --> 00:10:20,716
Speaker 1: take a look. He's like, that's JLP wave. It is

209
00:10:20,756 --> 00:10:23,476
Speaker 1: fished out the window j LP. They're like waving through

210
00:10:24,956 --> 00:10:31,196
Speaker 1: the P and P. But you know, to your point,

211
00:10:31,516 --> 00:10:35,076
Speaker 1: it's the world that burst this extraordiny amount of your

212
00:10:35,076 --> 00:10:37,836
Speaker 1: father's music. I mean, it's what gave his music such

213
00:10:38,516 --> 00:10:42,956
Speaker 1: immediacy and urgency and power. Did your father talk a

214
00:10:42,956 --> 00:10:44,836
Speaker 1: lot about the cut of the politics of Jamaica?

215
00:10:45,356 --> 00:10:46,196
Speaker 4: Not, I mean not to me.

216
00:10:46,276 --> 00:10:48,636
Speaker 3: I mean I've heard, I've overheard stuff and i've you know,

217
00:10:48,796 --> 00:10:50,116
Speaker 3: but never directed to us.

218
00:10:50,836 --> 00:10:53,396
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean he's spoken about it.

219
00:10:53,476 --> 00:10:57,636
Speaker 3: Obviously, he's not a political person to say, well, decide

220
00:10:57,676 --> 00:11:00,636
Speaker 3: these politics are that political party or whatever. I think

221
00:11:00,676 --> 00:11:03,356
Speaker 3: he was because his thing was rastafar right, which is

222
00:11:03,396 --> 00:11:06,236
Speaker 3: another thing. It's need a pn P, I JP. It's

223
00:11:06,276 --> 00:11:09,516
Speaker 3: like it's all things. And what was happening was that

224
00:11:10,036 --> 00:11:13,036
Speaker 3: all of the mentioned Claude Master, Boki Marshall, these were

225
00:11:13,076 --> 00:11:16,236
Speaker 3: the strong arms. They were These were the enforces of

226
00:11:16,276 --> 00:11:18,516
Speaker 3: the political party, the lead enforce us.

227
00:11:19,196 --> 00:11:21,036
Speaker 4: These guys were coming over to Bob side.

228
00:11:21,756 --> 00:11:23,876
Speaker 3: So there was a whole other thing going on that

229
00:11:24,316 --> 00:11:28,996
Speaker 3: the political poets were losing their their muscle to this

230
00:11:29,436 --> 00:11:33,036
Speaker 3: idea of RASTAFARII. And that was what bubb was really about,

231
00:11:33,116 --> 00:11:36,156
Speaker 3: really if it, I mean, if if he was about politics,

232
00:11:36,196 --> 00:11:39,076
Speaker 3: it was the political party of Rasta Farirai, which is

233
00:11:39,076 --> 00:11:42,916
Speaker 3: a spiritual movement, you know, change, change how things are.

234
00:11:42,996 --> 00:11:46,716
Speaker 3: So I think that was his politics. Rastafari was his politics.

235
00:11:46,716 --> 00:11:49,196
Speaker 1: We could say, you know, yeah, I was trying to

236
00:11:49,236 --> 00:11:53,556
Speaker 1: think whether there's another musical artist who has had the

237
00:11:53,596 --> 00:11:57,996
Speaker 1: same kind of status in his or her home country

238
00:11:58,036 --> 00:12:01,276
Speaker 1: as your father did. I mean, I remembering that famous

239
00:12:01,316 --> 00:12:06,996
Speaker 1: concert where the two political figures of the day and

240
00:12:07,076 --> 00:12:11,236
Speaker 1: manly didn't they shake hands on stage? Had had a

241
00:12:11,236 --> 00:12:12,556
Speaker 1: Bob Marley concert.

242
00:12:12,356 --> 00:12:13,996
Speaker 4: Yeah, the one loved Peace concert.

243
00:12:14,436 --> 00:12:17,916
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, the analogy would be as if Donald

244
00:12:17,956 --> 00:12:22,756
Speaker 1: Trump and Joe Biden had kind of hugged on stage

245
00:12:22,756 --> 00:12:25,836
Speaker 1: at a Bruce Springsteen concert. Right, that's the that's the

246
00:12:25,916 --> 00:12:28,156
Speaker 1: club I mean, But it doesn'ty, that doesn't even capture it.

247
00:12:28,236 --> 00:12:30,436
Speaker 1: I mean, this is why I love the book so

248
00:12:30,516 --> 00:12:33,476
Speaker 1: much because it takes us back to the time and

249
00:12:33,516 --> 00:12:37,956
Speaker 1: the place. Yeah, there's wonderful photos of the One Love

250
00:12:37,996 --> 00:12:40,676
Speaker 1: Concert with Siega and Michael Manley.

251
00:12:41,116 --> 00:12:43,156
Speaker 3: Yeah, I remember that that was there. Me and my

252
00:12:43,196 --> 00:12:45,796
Speaker 3: brother went on stage. That's what we usually do. Like

253
00:12:45,916 --> 00:12:48,876
Speaker 3: me'am Stephen, my brother Steven, you would go on stage.

254
00:12:48,876 --> 00:12:51,036
Speaker 3: We would go on stage in that last time, which

255
00:12:51,076 --> 00:12:54,516
Speaker 3: is usually exodus those times was tough to the One

256
00:12:54,556 --> 00:12:57,516
Speaker 3: Love Peace Concert. So I remember, let me.

257
00:12:57,556 --> 00:12:57,796
Speaker 4: Let me.

258
00:12:57,956 --> 00:12:59,796
Speaker 3: I don't think we're being afforded at that period. But

259
00:12:59,876 --> 00:13:02,996
Speaker 3: when Bob after the assassination attempt and Bob I'd come

260
00:13:03,036 --> 00:13:05,836
Speaker 3: home far the One Love Peace Concert, So we all

261
00:13:05,836 --> 00:13:08,236
Speaker 3: went to the airport, and you know, there was totally

262
00:13:08,276 --> 00:13:11,236
Speaker 3: enough people at the air because Bob's coming back. And

263
00:13:11,276 --> 00:13:15,076
Speaker 3: the thing is that political strongmen for the parties, political

264
00:13:15,116 --> 00:13:17,436
Speaker 3: parties now we're on the same page as Bob. And

265
00:13:17,516 --> 00:13:22,196
Speaker 3: so everyone that supports these political parties now was supporting

266
00:13:22,196 --> 00:13:25,516
Speaker 3: Bob and and and these these guys who know have

267
00:13:25,596 --> 00:13:28,956
Speaker 3: their own ideas of peace and less political violence.

268
00:13:29,916 --> 00:13:31,156
Speaker 4: So the airport was full.

269
00:13:31,516 --> 00:13:34,156
Speaker 3: And then I was there and I remember the crowd

270
00:13:34,236 --> 00:13:37,876
Speaker 3: and then pulled Bob and I'm there, I'm outside now

271
00:13:38,636 --> 00:13:41,236
Speaker 3: in this crowd, all mixed up with everybody, and Bob

272
00:13:41,396 --> 00:13:43,676
Speaker 3: get pulled into a car and I'm by the window

273
00:13:43,756 --> 00:13:48,356
Speaker 3: like this, Why no, he pulled me through the window.

274
00:13:50,196 --> 00:13:51,556
Speaker 1: Well you knew you got left behind.

275
00:13:52,716 --> 00:13:54,476
Speaker 4: I got mixed up in the cow. It was like

276
00:13:54,556 --> 00:13:57,316
Speaker 4: this crowd. No, there wasn't I had no nanny, r

277
00:13:57,436 --> 00:13:58,316
Speaker 4: nobody watching me.

278
00:14:01,036 --> 00:14:04,676
Speaker 1: It's important to remember in this moment in Jamaican history,

279
00:14:04,916 --> 00:14:07,476
Speaker 1: it's almost like the country is in is instead of

280
00:14:07,476 --> 00:14:11,516
Speaker 1: civil war, there is violence everywhere. You know, people are

281
00:14:11,596 --> 00:14:14,556
Speaker 1: leaving Jamaica and droves to come to the United States

282
00:14:14,636 --> 00:14:17,996
Speaker 1: or Canada to escape. It's a kind of a crazy period.

283
00:14:18,396 --> 00:14:20,876
Speaker 3: But it's funny not only as civil wars, like a

284
00:14:20,956 --> 00:14:23,516
Speaker 3: geopolitical work going on to at the same time between

285
00:14:24,036 --> 00:14:27,156
Speaker 3: the United States and Russia and Cuba, because that was

286
00:14:27,196 --> 00:14:27,676
Speaker 3: the old thing.

287
00:14:27,796 --> 00:14:30,316
Speaker 4: That's why Edward Seaga he was a buston.

288
00:14:30,356 --> 00:14:33,276
Speaker 3: He guarded from Boston University, and so there was the

289
00:14:33,316 --> 00:14:35,076
Speaker 3: geopolitical situation.

290
00:14:35,156 --> 00:14:37,516
Speaker 4: Even elevated the stakes even more.

291
00:14:38,116 --> 00:14:41,716
Speaker 3: Yeah, and Bob, I mean, Bob wasn't a serious position

292
00:14:41,836 --> 00:14:45,316
Speaker 3: and nobody knew, but he wasn't a serious position because

293
00:14:45,756 --> 00:14:50,276
Speaker 3: of the geopolitical element. Would would America allow a socialist

294
00:14:50,316 --> 00:14:55,076
Speaker 3: government who has ties with Cuba to have another, which

295
00:14:55,116 --> 00:14:59,556
Speaker 3: would then mean Russia having a more influence in that region.

296
00:15:00,236 --> 00:15:02,556
Speaker 3: You know, America didn't want and would not allow that.

297
00:15:02,996 --> 00:15:05,436
Speaker 3: And now there was this guy, this singer guy who

298
00:15:05,756 --> 00:15:08,356
Speaker 3: who people were drawn to, and he was like she

299
00:15:08,436 --> 00:15:13,316
Speaker 3: had some politic got power too because the political strong

300
00:15:13,356 --> 00:15:16,076
Speaker 3: men and their people are now drawn to this singer guy.

301
00:15:16,156 --> 00:15:18,756
Speaker 3: Who's this singer guy, you know what I'm saying. So

302
00:15:19,676 --> 00:15:24,276
Speaker 3: the states were really high beyond what I think we realized,

303
00:15:24,436 --> 00:15:26,876
Speaker 3: or even Bob might have realized at the time. Are

304
00:15:26,916 --> 00:15:27,876
Speaker 3: people around him you know.

305
00:15:28,716 --> 00:15:31,876
Speaker 2: We'll be back with Malcolm Gladwell and Ziggy Marley after

306
00:15:31,916 --> 00:15:38,356
Speaker 2: a break. We're back with more from Ziggy Marley and

307
00:15:38,476 --> 00:15:39,396
Speaker 2: Malcolm Gladwell.

308
00:15:39,956 --> 00:15:42,836
Speaker 1: Can you think of a musical figure who is analogous

309
00:15:42,876 --> 00:15:43,396
Speaker 1: to your father?

310
00:15:44,556 --> 00:15:48,516
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think more fella cute from Nigeria.

311
00:15:48,716 --> 00:15:52,276
Speaker 3: Yeah, and him he was, you know, he was another

312
00:15:52,356 --> 00:15:55,476
Speaker 3: one of my I met him once, not Chica, but

313
00:15:55,516 --> 00:15:58,596
Speaker 3: he was he was serious. He was really, I mean

314
00:15:58,956 --> 00:16:02,516
Speaker 3: what he did in in Nigeria standing up against the government,

315
00:16:02,556 --> 00:16:03,996
Speaker 3: the brutality and the songs he.

316
00:16:03,956 --> 00:16:05,276
Speaker 4: Wrote about that.

317
00:16:05,436 --> 00:16:09,036
Speaker 3: Really, he just like my father assassination, and I mean

318
00:16:09,636 --> 00:16:11,916
Speaker 3: they would read him and beat him and beat his

319
00:16:11,996 --> 00:16:13,476
Speaker 3: mother and you know a type of things.

320
00:16:13,556 --> 00:16:17,636
Speaker 4: So I felt it would be a good analogy to Bob.

321
00:16:17,676 --> 00:16:20,116
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, yeah, And there are a couple maybe

322
00:16:20,156 --> 00:16:23,996
Speaker 1: a couple of South African la maybe it would be

323
00:16:24,196 --> 00:16:28,236
Speaker 1: a good analogy. But when do you become aware that

324
00:16:28,396 --> 00:16:30,676
Speaker 1: you want to make your life in music? Is that

325
00:16:30,716 --> 00:16:32,636
Speaker 1: something that comes to you very young and looking at

326
00:16:32,636 --> 00:16:34,476
Speaker 1: your father or afterwards after his death.

327
00:16:35,196 --> 00:16:36,436
Speaker 4: No, it comes, it comes before that.

328
00:16:36,516 --> 00:16:38,196
Speaker 3: I mean the first concert we played, it was a

329
00:16:38,236 --> 00:16:42,196
Speaker 3: concert that Bob wasn't It was the International year the

330
00:16:42,276 --> 00:16:46,436
Speaker 3: children hear that was same to nine. So he and

331
00:16:46,516 --> 00:16:48,236
Speaker 3: he wrote the first song that we have a song.

332
00:16:49,516 --> 00:16:52,036
Speaker 3: So we was always music and Bob would always call

333
00:16:52,156 --> 00:16:55,316
Speaker 3: us to sing when he's writing, it'll come sing.

334
00:16:55,836 --> 00:16:57,116
Speaker 4: We're playing. We want to go play.

335
00:16:57,116 --> 00:16:59,636
Speaker 3: He started telling us to come sing, you know, so

336
00:17:00,236 --> 00:17:02,916
Speaker 3: we'll start very young with music. The thing I get

337
00:17:02,956 --> 00:17:08,556
Speaker 3: from Bob musically speaking, is a discipline and the focus

338
00:17:08,636 --> 00:17:12,636
Speaker 3: and the seriousness in which you approach the music. The

339
00:17:12,676 --> 00:17:14,756
Speaker 3: respect that they gave the music. So you have to

340
00:17:14,796 --> 00:17:17,476
Speaker 3: put in the work that shows you respect the music

341
00:17:17,636 --> 00:17:19,876
Speaker 3: is not like it and you know, you have to

342
00:17:19,876 --> 00:17:22,476
Speaker 3: sing the right No you ever practice, you know, so

343
00:17:22,916 --> 00:17:25,476
Speaker 3: really when we used to see that and much about

344
00:17:25,476 --> 00:17:28,796
Speaker 3: the Marrs, and I think for some reason I grew

345
00:17:28,876 --> 00:17:32,716
Speaker 3: up taking that ethic of hard work and putting it

346
00:17:32,756 --> 00:17:34,956
Speaker 3: into my own music of my life in general, you know,

347
00:17:35,276 --> 00:17:36,636
Speaker 3: the exercise and or whatever.

348
00:17:37,116 --> 00:17:40,996
Speaker 4: I think seeing him just you know, grining and like

349
00:17:41,756 --> 00:17:42,716
Speaker 4: want to make it right.

350
00:17:42,796 --> 00:17:46,556
Speaker 3: And the discipline, the discipline, you know said, the discipline

351
00:17:46,636 --> 00:17:50,036
Speaker 3: is really is a strong impact on me seeing that

352
00:17:50,116 --> 00:17:52,356
Speaker 3: discipline as growing up around that.

353
00:17:53,356 --> 00:17:55,076
Speaker 1: Can you talk a little bit about the way he

354
00:17:55,116 --> 00:17:57,716
Speaker 1: made music? I mean, was there was there a kind

355
00:17:57,716 --> 00:18:00,996
Speaker 1: of an approach that a particular approach and can you

356
00:18:00,996 --> 00:18:03,236
Speaker 1: can you give a loves of an example of how

357
00:18:03,276 --> 00:18:04,636
Speaker 1: he worked and how he created?

358
00:18:05,356 --> 00:18:09,076
Speaker 3: Well what I saw and this was probably in Miami

359
00:18:09,356 --> 00:18:12,116
Speaker 3: at his mother's house. Yeah, but he always had this

360
00:18:12,236 --> 00:18:14,836
Speaker 3: guitar around and a lot of time it's mumbling. You

361
00:18:14,876 --> 00:18:17,756
Speaker 3: don't really it's not a song, you just hear ideas

362
00:18:17,796 --> 00:18:18,316
Speaker 3: coming out.

363
00:18:18,716 --> 00:18:22,356
Speaker 4: And for me, he would always have fun with it.

364
00:18:22,356 --> 00:18:25,556
Speaker 3: It was never like a serious like writing and you know,

365
00:18:25,796 --> 00:18:29,676
Speaker 3: it was like something very joyful in the process, was

366
00:18:29,796 --> 00:18:34,716
Speaker 3: very joyful, unhappy, and people around and laughing and you know,

367
00:18:34,956 --> 00:18:38,316
Speaker 3: you getting the lyrics making fun. There's this one, and

368
00:18:38,356 --> 00:18:40,156
Speaker 3: I don't think you never did release this one.

369
00:18:40,196 --> 00:18:41,636
Speaker 4: It was released. It's kind of like he.

370
00:18:41,596 --> 00:18:43,356
Speaker 3: Did it as a demo real It's kind of like

371
00:18:43,356 --> 00:18:44,796
Speaker 3: a really good time and.

372
00:18:45,076 --> 00:18:47,156
Speaker 4: I don't remember him being in Miami.

373
00:18:46,916 --> 00:18:50,076
Speaker 3: In his bedroom with his O Vision guitar and it

374
00:18:50,236 --> 00:18:52,836
Speaker 3: was just having fun with you, having a real good time,

375
00:18:53,636 --> 00:18:55,476
Speaker 3: you know, and people you know, I'm a smoke and

376
00:18:55,596 --> 00:18:58,556
Speaker 3: split fun. It's just a good energy, just a good vibe,

377
00:18:58,556 --> 00:19:01,036
Speaker 3: you know what it's like. And then you never hear

378
00:19:01,076 --> 00:19:02,796
Speaker 3: what a sound complete. You only hear when it come

379
00:19:02,836 --> 00:19:05,236
Speaker 3: on the record. You hear pieces of it, ideas of

380
00:19:05,356 --> 00:19:07,796
Speaker 3: things you know, and then you hear a record. So

381
00:19:07,876 --> 00:19:10,996
Speaker 3: you never I never him complete one song righting a

382
00:19:11,116 --> 00:19:14,196
Speaker 3: song completely, you know, you always hear a little bits

383
00:19:14,236 --> 00:19:15,356
Speaker 3: and pieces here and there.

384
00:19:16,996 --> 00:19:20,836
Speaker 1: When your father became ill, was there a sense of

385
00:19:21,076 --> 00:19:24,236
Speaker 1: urgency with him? Did his work take on a new

386
00:19:24,356 --> 00:19:25,596
Speaker 1: kind of seriousness?

387
00:19:26,676 --> 00:19:29,036
Speaker 4: No, he was always urgent from him.

388
00:19:29,116 --> 00:19:31,396
Speaker 3: I mean he was urgent from the get go, because

389
00:19:31,876 --> 00:19:34,516
Speaker 3: there are a few examples of that kind of energy

390
00:19:34,516 --> 00:19:38,436
Speaker 3: of his urgency, of his work, ethic, of his determination.

391
00:19:39,276 --> 00:19:40,876
Speaker 3: So he was in the band of Winners with with

392
00:19:40,996 --> 00:19:42,996
Speaker 3: Bonnie and Peter, these three guys, right, they were in

393
00:19:43,036 --> 00:19:48,236
Speaker 3: his band and obviously in a world code because a

394
00:19:48,356 --> 00:19:50,556
Speaker 3: kind to what he said in an interview, it was

395
00:19:50,636 --> 00:19:53,956
Speaker 3: like and said these words, he used my name. He says,

396
00:19:54,516 --> 00:19:56,796
Speaker 3: if if you think when Ziggy wants to go to

397
00:19:56,836 --> 00:20:00,156
Speaker 3: school that he can say, like he didn't want to work,

398
00:20:00,156 --> 00:20:01,756
Speaker 3: he didn't want to do this what you know, so

399
00:20:02,556 --> 00:20:05,196
Speaker 3: he wants to work, you know, he wants to get

400
00:20:05,236 --> 00:20:07,636
Speaker 3: things done. There was always an urgency. There was never

401
00:20:08,516 --> 00:20:10,236
Speaker 3: a lot of time. There was never a lot of time.

402
00:20:10,716 --> 00:20:13,756
Speaker 3: There was always music. There was never and like all right,

403
00:20:13,836 --> 00:20:16,716
Speaker 3: let me take a vacation, now, let my got chill out.

404
00:20:16,716 --> 00:20:19,876
Speaker 3: Now there's no It was like thirty six I mean,

405
00:20:19,876 --> 00:20:23,636
Speaker 3: how much in thirty six years of like pushing, you know,

406
00:20:23,676 --> 00:20:27,236
Speaker 3: pushing it, pushing and pushing it, touring, never stopping, so

407
00:20:27,276 --> 00:20:29,276
Speaker 3: that urgency of field was always there.

408
00:20:30,196 --> 00:20:32,476
Speaker 1: Of all of his music, what are the songs that

409
00:20:32,516 --> 00:20:34,916
Speaker 1: speak to you the most.

410
00:20:34,476 --> 00:20:37,156
Speaker 3: The song that gets minimalist is a redemption song because

411
00:20:37,316 --> 00:20:39,716
Speaker 3: I remember Shout of Empires.

412
00:20:39,756 --> 00:20:41,396
Speaker 4: That was the album that was the album.

413
00:20:41,476 --> 00:20:47,316
Speaker 3: That song was was the emotional spear, the emotional arrow.

414
00:20:47,356 --> 00:20:49,156
Speaker 3: You know when you hear that song that in that

415
00:20:49,316 --> 00:20:52,196
Speaker 3: time So that memory of that song I related to

416
00:20:52,236 --> 00:20:55,476
Speaker 3: that time period and it was human his guitar. It's

417
00:20:55,516 --> 00:21:00,276
Speaker 3: so it's so soulful and just the final thing is

418
00:21:00,356 --> 00:21:03,436
Speaker 3: just Himan and guitar, and so that song always kind

419
00:21:03,436 --> 00:21:05,396
Speaker 3: of have an emotional impart on me.

420
00:21:05,796 --> 00:21:09,316
Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to know more about your childhood. There's

421
00:21:09,356 --> 00:21:12,636
Speaker 1: a lot of moving around. Your family went to London

422
00:21:12,916 --> 00:21:14,556
Speaker 1: right after the shooting, is that right?

423
00:21:15,036 --> 00:21:17,756
Speaker 3: Yeah, but we we never got London, So all right,

424
00:21:17,796 --> 00:21:21,156
Speaker 3: so chrenched down right Changtown where where I was born

425
00:21:21,196 --> 00:21:22,996
Speaker 3: in Changstown. We grew up in a Changstone a little

426
00:21:23,036 --> 00:21:26,636
Speaker 3: bit and then moved to Delaware, where his mother had

427
00:21:26,756 --> 00:21:27,836
Speaker 3: moved I migrated to.

428
00:21:28,116 --> 00:21:30,716
Speaker 4: So we lived in Delaware, Williamington, Delaware.

429
00:21:30,716 --> 00:21:33,116
Speaker 3: I went to school elementary school in Delaware for maybe

430
00:21:33,156 --> 00:21:33,876
Speaker 3: a year or so.

431
00:21:34,436 --> 00:21:36,356
Speaker 4: Then we moved up to Jamaica.

432
00:21:36,596 --> 00:21:38,916
Speaker 3: But we moved out out Trenchtone and move into a

433
00:21:38,956 --> 00:21:42,556
Speaker 3: place called Bulby, which is a much better standard of living.

434
00:21:42,596 --> 00:21:45,356
Speaker 4: It's like, you know, not poor, but not rich.

435
00:21:45,356 --> 00:21:47,796
Speaker 3: It's like the middle class or something like that in

436
00:21:47,916 --> 00:21:51,076
Speaker 3: Jamaica at the time. But it's funny within that middle

437
00:21:51,076 --> 00:21:53,956
Speaker 3: class community when a mother lived. We were still with

438
00:21:53,996 --> 00:21:55,996
Speaker 3: our grand aunt and it was like we had to

439
00:21:56,036 --> 00:21:57,956
Speaker 3: walk up the road and up the hill and she

440
00:21:58,196 --> 00:22:01,676
Speaker 3: was living in a poor a poor classhouse with no

441
00:22:01,836 --> 00:22:05,556
Speaker 3: what I no tilet no nothing, so right within that

442
00:22:05,596 --> 00:22:07,996
Speaker 3: middle class thing years right, If I went to my aunt,

443
00:22:08,036 --> 00:22:10,956
Speaker 3: I was like I was another neighborhood. And so we

444
00:22:10,996 --> 00:22:13,956
Speaker 3: would stay with her a lot of times because mommy

445
00:22:13,956 --> 00:22:15,996
Speaker 3: and Daddy would go on tour and then we would

446
00:22:15,996 --> 00:22:18,756
Speaker 3: have to stay with Granda Auntie in that house there.

447
00:22:19,156 --> 00:22:22,236
Speaker 4: And then after that we moved to an upper middle.

448
00:22:21,996 --> 00:22:26,116
Speaker 3: Class neighborhood now, and then after after my father passed Awa,

449
00:22:26,156 --> 00:22:29,116
Speaker 3: my mother move us into a more upper class in

450
00:22:29,156 --> 00:22:31,996
Speaker 3: the hills with a big house and lots of rooms

451
00:22:31,996 --> 00:22:35,836
Speaker 3: and stuff like that. So yeah, that was the movement

452
00:22:36,076 --> 00:22:40,076
Speaker 3: and it was fun as a child. Everything was a

453
00:22:40,116 --> 00:22:43,276
Speaker 3: great learning experience, you know, this life with my family

454
00:22:43,276 --> 00:22:44,916
Speaker 3: and my father and my mother and what they were

455
00:22:44,916 --> 00:22:45,436
Speaker 3: going through.

456
00:22:46,316 --> 00:22:50,156
Speaker 4: I was also learning from. At the same time, what's.

457
00:22:49,956 --> 00:22:53,436
Speaker 1: It like going back to Jamaica now? Get mobbed walking?

458
00:22:53,476 --> 00:22:53,516
Speaker 4: Do?

459
00:22:53,876 --> 00:22:55,956
Speaker 3: I haven't been back in a while. Still about going

460
00:22:55,996 --> 00:22:57,996
Speaker 3: back when I went back last time? Jam, I mean

461
00:22:58,036 --> 00:23:01,036
Speaker 3: a lot, a lot has changed at another generation.

462
00:23:01,156 --> 00:23:03,556
Speaker 4: A lot of the vibes that's changed, the old look

463
00:23:03,596 --> 00:23:04,076
Speaker 4: has changed.

464
00:23:04,116 --> 00:23:08,876
Speaker 3: You know, I'm a lot of more Americanization of Jamaica.

465
00:23:09,596 --> 00:23:12,316
Speaker 4: But the country side is where the magic still remains.

466
00:23:12,796 --> 00:23:15,316
Speaker 4: You know. The city, the city's side, I'm not so,

467
00:23:16,356 --> 00:23:16,596
Speaker 4: I'm not.

468
00:23:16,716 --> 00:23:18,876
Speaker 3: It's not when we when we were growing up in

469
00:23:18,876 --> 00:23:23,156
Speaker 3: a city, it wasn't like a big metropolitan city. It

470
00:23:23,196 --> 00:23:24,956
Speaker 3: was like a look a town and it was still

471
00:23:24,996 --> 00:23:28,716
Speaker 3: had that vibe of like you're still in Jamaica. But no,

472
00:23:28,796 --> 00:23:31,356
Speaker 3: it kind of the city kind of gets a little

473
00:23:31,476 --> 00:23:34,356
Speaker 3: more hectic and so, but the country side is is

474
00:23:34,396 --> 00:23:37,436
Speaker 3: still where it's. Jamaica has a vibe to it. You

475
00:23:37,476 --> 00:23:40,156
Speaker 3: don't really get anywhere from me. You know, it's a

476
00:23:40,236 --> 00:23:44,116
Speaker 3: very inspirational place if you find the right spot.

477
00:23:43,836 --> 00:23:44,076
Speaker 4: You know.

478
00:23:44,596 --> 00:23:44,996
Speaker 1: Yeah.

479
00:23:45,316 --> 00:23:48,076
Speaker 4: Ian Fleming, he wrote this gens band stuff in Jamaica.

480
00:23:48,636 --> 00:23:53,276
Speaker 1: GoldenEye, Golden Eye is written in Jamaica, new Port, Antonio.

481
00:23:53,996 --> 00:23:56,476
Speaker 1: I think there's a there was a there was a house,

482
00:23:56,516 --> 00:23:57,916
Speaker 1: he stated, Yes, that's right.

483
00:23:58,076 --> 00:23:59,916
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, so plenty inspiration.

484
00:24:01,236 --> 00:24:04,356
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's easy to see why Jamaicans have such an

485
00:24:04,396 --> 00:24:07,916
Speaker 1: inflated sense of their own importance because the whole world

486
00:24:08,036 --> 00:24:13,996
Speaker 1: comes running very pro Yeah, I want to talk about

487
00:24:14,036 --> 00:24:16,116
Speaker 1: some of the photographs that mean the most to you

488
00:24:16,156 --> 00:24:19,036
Speaker 1: in this book. My first question was how many of

489
00:24:19,076 --> 00:24:22,076
Speaker 1: these photographs did you take, our other family members take

490
00:24:22,196 --> 00:24:25,636
Speaker 1: and how many of them are professional photographs?

491
00:24:26,076 --> 00:24:30,716
Speaker 4: Well, I didn't, we never take any. These aren't all photographs.

492
00:24:30,756 --> 00:24:32,556
Speaker 4: These are professional.

493
00:24:32,596 --> 00:24:34,476
Speaker 3: There's there's his friend never who used to do his

494
00:24:34,556 --> 00:24:37,636
Speaker 3: lighting and design his album or have some photos in there.

495
00:24:38,116 --> 00:24:40,116
Speaker 3: But with the book, what we what I try to

496
00:24:40,116 --> 00:24:43,396
Speaker 3: do is do a balance of those type of professional

497
00:24:43,556 --> 00:24:47,396
Speaker 3: like iconic images and with more like images of you know,

498
00:24:47,556 --> 00:24:50,876
Speaker 3: just in real life outside of the musician, outside of

499
00:24:50,876 --> 00:24:53,796
Speaker 3: the stage, you know, show some bags, you know, show

500
00:24:53,876 --> 00:24:57,596
Speaker 3: him beyond that, and for trying, as I said in

501
00:24:57,636 --> 00:24:59,916
Speaker 3: the book, trying to make people even feel a deeper

502
00:24:59,996 --> 00:25:02,636
Speaker 3: relationship to him. Because if you know someone just as

503
00:25:02,636 --> 00:25:05,756
Speaker 3: you I can are as you as a as a musician,

504
00:25:07,196 --> 00:25:09,076
Speaker 3: I mean a singer, then that's one we have done.

505
00:25:09,196 --> 00:25:12,316
Speaker 3: But if he can't get a deeper understanding of his

506
00:25:12,316 --> 00:25:14,996
Speaker 3: his life during that same period of time beyond that,

507
00:25:15,556 --> 00:25:17,956
Speaker 3: then you can feel even more connected to the person

508
00:25:18,076 --> 00:25:19,036
Speaker 3: and on that level.

509
00:25:20,116 --> 00:25:21,876
Speaker 4: So that's what I was trying to do with the book.

510
00:25:21,876 --> 00:25:25,236
Speaker 3: You know, but we never have unfortunate way at the time,

511
00:25:25,236 --> 00:25:27,516
Speaker 3: we never readly a letter. You know, we never have

512
00:25:27,556 --> 00:25:29,476
Speaker 3: cameras and we never have a camera. We never have

513
00:25:29,516 --> 00:25:34,156
Speaker 3: my camera. Yeah, you know, photographers have cameras. We have cameras.

514
00:25:35,556 --> 00:25:39,516
Speaker 1: With the process of going through all these photographs painful,

515
00:25:39,836 --> 00:25:42,116
Speaker 1: what's the prop all kinds of memories.

516
00:25:41,996 --> 00:25:43,676
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, but joyful, not painful.

517
00:25:43,676 --> 00:25:46,876
Speaker 3: I mean melan Caliber Barby's at here and when you

518
00:25:46,876 --> 00:25:48,836
Speaker 3: look at the photograph, he said, oh, what a young man.

519
00:25:48,876 --> 00:25:50,756
Speaker 4: I'm fifty that I'm fifty two now.

520
00:25:50,836 --> 00:25:52,676
Speaker 3: So when I look at him, He's like, look at

521
00:25:52,676 --> 00:25:55,316
Speaker 3: this young guy, young kid, you know what I mean?

522
00:25:55,436 --> 00:25:57,476
Speaker 3: Why you know, it's so that is a sad thing,

523
00:25:58,036 --> 00:26:00,876
Speaker 3: but there's so much the joy overwegh that there's so

524
00:26:00,956 --> 00:26:01,396
Speaker 3: much joy.

525
00:26:02,076 --> 00:26:05,956
Speaker 4: I'm just looking at him and seeing him in that

526
00:26:06,316 --> 00:26:08,796
Speaker 4: way were I know he was having a good time

527
00:26:08,836 --> 00:26:09,836
Speaker 4: while he was doing it too.

528
00:26:10,276 --> 00:26:12,516
Speaker 3: You know, he wasn't upsetaatey. He was having a good time.

529
00:26:12,916 --> 00:26:16,076
Speaker 3: He enjoyed, he enjoyed his experience. You know, I said,

530
00:26:16,116 --> 00:26:18,716
Speaker 3: so I feel happy about that that guy. I know

531
00:26:18,796 --> 00:26:20,396
Speaker 3: he was having a good time doing it. You know,

532
00:26:20,916 --> 00:26:22,996
Speaker 3: there's a photo we want to talk about the photo.

533
00:26:23,076 --> 00:26:26,836
Speaker 4: Let's go to m pages ninety seven China and appeared

534
00:26:26,876 --> 00:26:27,396
Speaker 4: ninety seven.

535
00:26:27,436 --> 00:26:30,156
Speaker 3: If he can't come from it seems it seemed like

536
00:26:30,476 --> 00:26:33,996
Speaker 3: at his home, in his home in the countryside. Oh yes,

537
00:26:34,476 --> 00:26:36,476
Speaker 3: so this guy I used to we used to go

538
00:26:36,516 --> 00:26:38,636
Speaker 3: to the country. This is the same time we used

539
00:26:38,636 --> 00:26:41,316
Speaker 3: to go back with him on a trip. And this

540
00:26:41,316 --> 00:26:43,116
Speaker 3: this is just the real Bob, you know, I said,

541
00:26:43,116 --> 00:26:45,916
Speaker 3: this is and these are the people, this is where

542
00:26:46,276 --> 00:26:49,636
Speaker 3: come from. These are his people, this is his roots.

543
00:26:49,836 --> 00:26:53,356
Speaker 3: He was born on this land. And I mean, you

544
00:26:53,396 --> 00:26:56,436
Speaker 3: can't see the guys he's coming to. He's either coming

545
00:26:56,436 --> 00:26:58,996
Speaker 3: from the fielder going to the field, have some probably

546
00:26:59,116 --> 00:27:01,476
Speaker 3: yeaman stuff in that crocus bag you have there.

547
00:27:01,916 --> 00:27:04,916
Speaker 4: And everybody. I mean, Bubble was just one of the people.

548
00:27:04,996 --> 00:27:05,916
Speaker 4: He was just one of them.

549
00:27:06,476 --> 00:27:09,596
Speaker 3: And as you can see, and he's talking, he's eating

550
00:27:09,596 --> 00:27:11,836
Speaker 3: a banner and antargions and some of the kids them,

551
00:27:12,076 --> 00:27:13,836
Speaker 3: you know, and some of them have shoes on, some

552
00:27:13,916 --> 00:27:14,876
Speaker 3: don't have shoes.

553
00:27:14,596 --> 00:27:16,596
Speaker 4: On, and they're laughing.

554
00:27:18,636 --> 00:27:22,556
Speaker 3: Well, you know, in communication with people, of good communication,

555
00:27:22,756 --> 00:27:23,436
Speaker 3: skilling up with.

556
00:27:23,436 --> 00:27:26,116
Speaker 4: People, and you know, yeah, and just having fun. He

557
00:27:26,236 --> 00:27:28,956
Speaker 4: was en giant life. He's sitting and he's sitting on

558
00:27:28,996 --> 00:27:30,676
Speaker 4: the stairs here on the next page of.

559
00:27:31,436 --> 00:27:34,796
Speaker 1: The pictures is I mean he's so you can just

560
00:27:34,836 --> 00:27:36,836
Speaker 1: tell how relaxing at Homie is.

561
00:27:37,036 --> 00:27:37,796
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

562
00:27:38,436 --> 00:27:40,556
Speaker 1: But at the time this photo is taken, he's at

563
00:27:40,556 --> 00:27:41,356
Speaker 1: the height of his fame.

564
00:27:41,996 --> 00:27:46,556
Speaker 3: Yeah, man, after the assassination at so this is yeah,

565
00:27:46,556 --> 00:27:49,436
Speaker 3: he's at the height right here. And this is as

566
00:27:49,436 --> 00:27:51,556
Speaker 3: you see this, he's leaning On the other page, he's

567
00:27:51,636 --> 00:27:53,836
Speaker 3: leaning up on the VW van. This is so we

568
00:27:53,876 --> 00:27:56,436
Speaker 3: had Mama had a beat her and he he would

569
00:27:56,516 --> 00:27:57,876
Speaker 3: drive this VW van.

570
00:27:58,516 --> 00:28:00,636
Speaker 1: I think those are the only two kinds of cars

571
00:28:00,676 --> 00:28:05,436
Speaker 1: they were in Jamaica in those years, BW beatles.

572
00:28:07,316 --> 00:28:10,516
Speaker 4: So yeah, and yeah, some of these people, some of

573
00:28:10,516 --> 00:28:13,316
Speaker 4: them is his cousins too. There's a couple of cousins

574
00:28:13,356 --> 00:28:13,716
Speaker 4: in here.

575
00:28:14,436 --> 00:28:16,596
Speaker 3: This is at home. And then this is the last

576
00:28:16,596 --> 00:28:20,036
Speaker 3: photo from that series. I think if you go to

577
00:28:20,076 --> 00:28:22,916
Speaker 3: the next page, is him sitting down stealing sentence.

578
00:28:23,636 --> 00:28:25,436
Speaker 4: But he's alone. His guitars on.

579
00:28:25,356 --> 00:28:27,756
Speaker 3: The floor here on the ground right here, and he's

580
00:28:27,996 --> 00:28:29,396
Speaker 3: he's barefoot also right there.

581
00:28:29,956 --> 00:28:32,716
Speaker 4: This photon is like, this is Bob.

582
00:28:33,596 --> 00:28:35,876
Speaker 3: I think Bob was always like Alona, and he always

583
00:28:35,876 --> 00:28:37,996
Speaker 3: felt alone although he had so many people around him.

584
00:28:38,596 --> 00:28:41,476
Speaker 3: This is Bob, this is him and his like, this

585
00:28:41,516 --> 00:28:44,436
Speaker 3: is his meditation, this is him like in his space,

586
00:28:44,476 --> 00:28:47,196
Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying, alone and just vibing. I

587
00:28:47,196 --> 00:28:50,516
Speaker 3: felt like he felt like he was always alone in

588
00:28:50,556 --> 00:28:52,596
Speaker 3: some way, you know, and this kind of represents that

589
00:28:52,756 --> 00:28:54,156
Speaker 3: loneliness in a way.

590
00:28:54,956 --> 00:28:57,436
Speaker 2: We'll be back with more from Ziggy Marley after this

591
00:28:57,516 --> 00:29:03,916
Speaker 2: quick break. We're back with the rest of Malcolm's conversation

592
00:29:04,196 --> 00:29:07,196
Speaker 2: with Ziggy Marley. As an added bonus, you'll hear the

593
00:29:07,236 --> 00:29:10,876
Speaker 2: Live Talks Los Angeles moderator take questions from the audience

594
00:29:11,356 --> 00:29:12,676
Speaker 2: at the end of Malcolm's interview.

595
00:29:13,356 --> 00:29:16,156
Speaker 1: I love some of these group shots. There's there's on

596
00:29:16,236 --> 00:29:20,316
Speaker 1: page fifty, there's this fantastic group shot with the band

597
00:29:20,756 --> 00:29:21,556
Speaker 1: The Yes.

598
00:29:21,876 --> 00:29:25,516
Speaker 4: All right, this photo was taken in in England. I

599
00:29:25,556 --> 00:29:26,436
Speaker 4: was here. I was there.

600
00:29:27,636 --> 00:29:31,796
Speaker 3: We were on the way to Zimbabwe. Are coming from Zimbabwe.

601
00:29:32,556 --> 00:29:35,396
Speaker 3: That's why the next quota of me, if you look

602
00:29:35,436 --> 00:29:36,916
Speaker 3: at next quota, this is England too.

603
00:29:37,196 --> 00:29:38,676
Speaker 4: So this is this is the time period.

604
00:29:38,716 --> 00:29:42,756
Speaker 3: We're there, right before Zimbabwe, are after Zimbabwe. We were

605
00:29:42,756 --> 00:29:45,356
Speaker 3: in Yeah, and I went on the trip with him,

606
00:29:45,636 --> 00:29:47,316
Speaker 3: and you know, football as usual.

607
00:29:47,956 --> 00:29:51,356
Speaker 1: I had not realized the extent to which she was

608
00:29:51,396 --> 00:29:54,876
Speaker 1: a soccer First of all, I know your son, but

609
00:29:55,076 --> 00:29:56,876
Speaker 1: I want you to be honest. How good was he?

610
00:29:57,756 --> 00:29:58,316
Speaker 4: That was good.

611
00:29:58,356 --> 00:30:01,076
Speaker 3: I mean I remember you played against me when I

612
00:30:01,116 --> 00:30:04,436
Speaker 3: was in you know, sometime of appearance versus. I was

613
00:30:04,436 --> 00:30:07,756
Speaker 3: on the soccer team in elementary school and I remember

614
00:30:07,796 --> 00:30:10,436
Speaker 3: he came. There was a peer versus you know, students,

615
00:30:10,476 --> 00:30:13,036
Speaker 3: and you know, so he came and I was like, yeah,

616
00:30:13,036 --> 00:30:13,796
Speaker 3: I marked this guy.

617
00:30:13,836 --> 00:30:18,196
Speaker 4: I'm marked. I have this guy. I'll take him.

618
00:30:16,676 --> 00:30:21,036
Speaker 3: But he was fast, which is good, and he had

619
00:30:21,036 --> 00:30:23,476
Speaker 3: a good kick, and he had a good player.

620
00:30:23,476 --> 00:30:26,756
Speaker 4: He was a good player. Cousin. He idolized soccer player.

621
00:30:26,836 --> 00:30:28,876
Speaker 3: One of his good friends was Alan skillcoll who was

622
00:30:28,916 --> 00:30:31,076
Speaker 3: like the top Jamaican player at the time, and they

623
00:30:31,076 --> 00:30:31,996
Speaker 3: were good friends.

624
00:30:32,476 --> 00:30:34,596
Speaker 4: So, I mean, he kept fit.

625
00:30:34,596 --> 00:30:38,716
Speaker 3: He kept his workout was like a professional soccer player workout,

626
00:30:39,276 --> 00:30:41,916
Speaker 3: you know. Abdomena was you know, running on the sand

627
00:30:41,956 --> 00:30:44,716
Speaker 3: playing soccer like that was that was that was a workout.

628
00:30:44,716 --> 00:30:48,396
Speaker 3: There's a soccer player workout basically. And his friends, all

629
00:30:48,436 --> 00:30:50,756
Speaker 3: of his friends were soccer players. I could play soccer.

630
00:30:52,276 --> 00:30:55,676
Speaker 3: He was drawn towards you know people like that, you know, but.

631
00:30:55,676 --> 00:30:58,796
Speaker 1: Zig to be a fan of of Jamaican soccer. Is

632
00:30:58,836 --> 00:31:02,756
Speaker 1: it exercise in masochism? It's like the I know this

633
00:31:02,836 --> 00:31:05,836
Speaker 1: from my cousins. Nothing is more painful than this team

634
00:31:05,876 --> 00:31:07,876
Speaker 1: that just loses and loses and loses.

635
00:31:09,156 --> 00:31:10,716
Speaker 4: About the funny things. And we have some of the

636
00:31:10,716 --> 00:31:11,676
Speaker 4: best players in the world.

637
00:31:11,756 --> 00:31:14,876
Speaker 3: But I don't know, cause I think we had some

638
00:31:14,916 --> 00:31:17,396
Speaker 3: great players, but we have the best runner.

639
00:31:17,916 --> 00:31:20,236
Speaker 4: Well, you always have the best runners, the fastest runner.

640
00:31:20,716 --> 00:31:23,356
Speaker 1: That's but that's been true forever. I want to talk

641
00:31:23,396 --> 00:31:27,796
Speaker 1: a little bit about your own music, and you must

642
00:31:27,836 --> 00:31:31,196
Speaker 1: have thought about you had this extraordinary gift, which is

643
00:31:32,156 --> 00:31:34,396
Speaker 1: the gift of your father and his legacy, but it

644
00:31:34,436 --> 00:31:38,436
Speaker 1: also presents a challenge to kind of carve out your

645
00:31:38,436 --> 00:31:40,876
Speaker 1: own identity in that. How do you approach that?

646
00:31:41,916 --> 00:31:43,716
Speaker 3: When I go back and look at my history, right,

647
00:31:43,716 --> 00:31:47,836
Speaker 3: our family history, so we have musicians and artists on

648
00:31:47,836 --> 00:31:50,236
Speaker 3: both sides of my family. A lot of people always

649
00:31:50,276 --> 00:31:51,996
Speaker 3: talk about my father, and like I said, my mother

650
00:31:52,476 --> 00:31:55,596
Speaker 3: was always key in in everything.

651
00:31:55,596 --> 00:31:58,156
Speaker 4: My mother was actually a keen Bob's success. We don't

652
00:31:58,156 --> 00:32:00,916
Speaker 4: my mother. Bob wouldn't be as successful. I wouldn't even

653
00:32:00,956 --> 00:32:01,996
Speaker 4: have what he has.

654
00:32:02,356 --> 00:32:05,036
Speaker 3: She was the one who reintroduced him, or introduced him

655
00:32:05,076 --> 00:32:08,316
Speaker 3: to the Rastafara and culture, which had a big impact

656
00:32:08,396 --> 00:32:13,036
Speaker 3: on him mentally and spiritually. She's the one who when

657
00:32:13,036 --> 00:32:14,876
Speaker 3: they didn't have nothing, She's the one who gave him

658
00:32:14,876 --> 00:32:17,316
Speaker 3: somewhere to sleep, and she was the one who slept

659
00:32:17,316 --> 00:32:19,636
Speaker 3: on the floor with him in the studios, who sold

660
00:32:19,676 --> 00:32:23,876
Speaker 3: records with him on their head, riding their bicycles through

661
00:32:24,076 --> 00:32:26,996
Speaker 3: through the streets. She was the one who got shut

662
00:32:26,996 --> 00:32:29,036
Speaker 3: in her head the same time he got shut in

663
00:32:29,036 --> 00:32:30,956
Speaker 3: the hand, and still showed up for the concert when

664
00:32:30,996 --> 00:32:32,476
Speaker 3: other people are like, no, we're not going.

665
00:32:32,836 --> 00:32:35,636
Speaker 4: She still had a bullet in her head. So her

666
00:32:35,756 --> 00:32:38,516
Speaker 4: impact on his legacy.

667
00:32:38,116 --> 00:32:40,956
Speaker 3: And where we are is I always remember that too,

668
00:32:41,476 --> 00:32:45,116
Speaker 3: you know, when I think about my what you just

669
00:32:45,156 --> 00:32:48,716
Speaker 3: asked me about, you know, making my own way or whatever,

670
00:32:48,716 --> 00:32:51,756
Speaker 3: I remember that what I have is that just coming

671
00:32:51,876 --> 00:32:57,076
Speaker 3: from my father's, coming from my mother, her grandfather, her father.

672
00:32:57,196 --> 00:33:01,356
Speaker 4: My grandfather was a saxophone player. My father and mother and.

673
00:33:01,196 --> 00:33:05,436
Speaker 3: His family were all church people, singers, they're singing churches,

674
00:33:06,356 --> 00:33:09,836
Speaker 3: and so the spirit there's you know, it's sides. And

675
00:33:09,916 --> 00:33:12,956
Speaker 3: for me, yes, I understand the question of my father

676
00:33:13,076 --> 00:33:17,076
Speaker 3: and his his wit or his impact on what it

677
00:33:17,076 --> 00:33:19,156
Speaker 3: would mean to someone like me, are son of any

678
00:33:20,676 --> 00:33:25,316
Speaker 3: person like Bob, and and how we kind of who

679
00:33:25,476 --> 00:33:27,076
Speaker 3: we who choose to be in the same line, and

680
00:33:27,076 --> 00:33:30,396
Speaker 3: we're kind of have to overcome whatever that thing is.

681
00:33:30,716 --> 00:33:33,956
Speaker 3: So for me never really was on the forefront of

682
00:33:33,996 --> 00:33:36,876
Speaker 3: my mind, and it was on the peripherals.

683
00:33:37,076 --> 00:33:38,876
Speaker 4: And I heard it. I heard him thing and I

684
00:33:38,916 --> 00:33:41,316
Speaker 4: heard it, but I never paid much attention to it.

685
00:33:41,996 --> 00:33:46,556
Speaker 3: I started seeking a spiritual part when I was a teenager.

686
00:33:47,396 --> 00:33:52,596
Speaker 3: Somebody who will mental see it was evolved beyond that

687
00:33:52,796 --> 00:33:53,716
Speaker 3: because I was looking.

688
00:33:54,076 --> 00:33:55,236
Speaker 4: And it's because of my father.

689
00:33:55,276 --> 00:34:00,076
Speaker 3: I was looking, you know, because of his spirituality led

690
00:34:00,076 --> 00:34:01,956
Speaker 3: me into search for my spirituality.

691
00:34:03,036 --> 00:34:07,076
Speaker 4: And so for me, I was with past.

692
00:34:06,916 --> 00:34:09,876
Speaker 3: My ego of trying are thinking about are putting that

693
00:34:10,036 --> 00:34:14,556
Speaker 3: pressure and myself to live up to the legacyr to

694
00:34:15,436 --> 00:34:17,116
Speaker 3: make my own name or make my own way.

695
00:34:17,116 --> 00:34:18,636
Speaker 4: I don't need to make my own way. I just

696
00:34:18,676 --> 00:34:19,596
Speaker 4: need to be myself.

697
00:34:20,076 --> 00:34:22,356
Speaker 3: That will that will solve all the problem that I

698
00:34:22,356 --> 00:34:25,796
Speaker 3: will solve the problem that people is asking a question about.

699
00:34:25,836 --> 00:34:27,916
Speaker 4: I don't need to like try to do it. I

700
00:34:27,996 --> 00:34:29,316
Speaker 4: just need to be true.

701
00:34:30,116 --> 00:34:31,916
Speaker 3: And then that that is what that's is, how it

702
00:34:31,956 --> 00:34:35,156
Speaker 3: really is, and I also need to accept, and I

703
00:34:35,196 --> 00:34:36,276
Speaker 3: do accept.

704
00:34:35,836 --> 00:34:38,436
Speaker 4: That my father is a part of me.

705
00:34:38,916 --> 00:34:42,356
Speaker 3: There's gonna be similarities, there's gonna be things that is like,

706
00:34:42,636 --> 00:34:44,476
Speaker 3: you know, it's like Bob, you know what I mean.

707
00:34:44,596 --> 00:34:48,836
Speaker 3: So we're not trying to this this this stands to

708
00:34:48,836 --> 00:34:50,916
Speaker 3: ourself from him in that way either. So there's no

709
00:34:51,356 --> 00:34:53,356
Speaker 3: that's suld that doesn't exist because I don't want to

710
00:34:53,396 --> 00:34:56,036
Speaker 3: distance self from him because I am a part of him.

711
00:34:56,036 --> 00:34:56,436
Speaker 4: Anyway.

712
00:34:56,596 --> 00:34:59,716
Speaker 3: You cannot do that. He has a sound car running away.

713
00:34:59,756 --> 00:35:01,836
Speaker 3: You're running away, but you can't run away from yourself,

714
00:35:02,396 --> 00:35:04,756
Speaker 3: you know what I said. So that is how I

715
00:35:04,876 --> 00:35:07,316
Speaker 3: That is how I really try. That is how I

716
00:35:07,316 --> 00:35:10,516
Speaker 3: I when I analyze it myself after being asked that question,

717
00:35:11,196 --> 00:35:14,436
Speaker 3: that is how I see myself having dealt with it

718
00:35:14,796 --> 00:35:15,596
Speaker 3: in that way, you know.

719
00:35:15,796 --> 00:35:21,596
Speaker 1: And yeah, yeah, no that's beautifully but yeah, well thank you, Ziggy.

720
00:35:21,636 --> 00:35:24,116
Speaker 1: I think we have some questions. Ted is that right?

721
00:35:24,196 --> 00:35:26,196
Speaker 1: But this is like I said, the book, The book

722
00:35:26,316 --> 00:35:32,076
Speaker 1: was so lovely and took me back to so many

723
00:35:32,236 --> 00:35:36,236
Speaker 1: kind of wonderful memories of that era in Jamaica and

724
00:35:36,356 --> 00:35:38,076
Speaker 1: at a real thrill to talk to you about.

725
00:35:37,876 --> 00:35:41,636
Speaker 5: It me too, same thing, all right, Thank you, Malcolm.

726
00:35:41,676 --> 00:35:46,396
Speaker 5: The first question, Ziggy is have you been to Ethiopia

727
00:35:46,676 --> 00:35:49,316
Speaker 5: and can you say something about your connection and your

728
00:35:49,356 --> 00:35:51,076
Speaker 5: father's connection to Ethiopia.

729
00:35:52,436 --> 00:35:54,796
Speaker 3: Yeah, we were in Ethiopia years back to celebrate I

730
00:35:54,836 --> 00:35:57,516
Speaker 3: think it was a sixtieth or one of those birthdays above.

731
00:35:57,676 --> 00:36:03,236
Speaker 3: Because obviously Ethiopia and it's history, we found a strong

732
00:36:03,276 --> 00:36:09,076
Speaker 3: connection to the Rastafari culture. It's a deep story because

733
00:36:09,156 --> 00:36:13,996
Speaker 3: as and I've probably catt it shot living in Jamaica

734
00:36:14,716 --> 00:36:17,956
Speaker 3: during the times of after independence or you know where

735
00:36:18,036 --> 00:36:21,156
Speaker 3: supposedly everywhere or whatever, the Christian faith and the faith

736
00:36:21,236 --> 00:36:26,676
Speaker 3: that was forced upon us by the colonists was something

737
00:36:26,756 --> 00:36:31,116
Speaker 3: that a sector of you know, Jamaican started to turn against, like,

738
00:36:31,196 --> 00:36:33,036
Speaker 3: you know, this is a slave master thing.

739
00:36:33,116 --> 00:36:34,596
Speaker 4: You know, white God.

740
00:36:34,716 --> 00:36:36,876
Speaker 3: Why Jesus is a white guy with blue eyes and

741
00:36:36,956 --> 00:36:37,956
Speaker 3: blah blah blah.

742
00:36:38,036 --> 00:36:40,196
Speaker 4: Whereas who do we identify with?

743
00:36:41,196 --> 00:36:45,276
Speaker 3: And so Marcus Gather really started the whole conversation and

744
00:36:45,396 --> 00:36:47,836
Speaker 3: this and and said some stuff. You know, when Marcus

745
00:36:48,036 --> 00:36:50,316
Speaker 3: that all black thing and the black oe and you know,

746
00:36:50,356 --> 00:36:53,956
Speaker 3: your black identity, that was a strong inspiration. And then

747
00:36:54,356 --> 00:36:58,876
Speaker 3: when Rastafari start using the same Bible that was given

748
00:36:58,916 --> 00:37:01,236
Speaker 3: to them by the colonists to now interpret it in

749
00:37:01,276 --> 00:37:05,236
Speaker 3: a way that put an emphasis on this king in

750
00:37:05,276 --> 00:37:09,556
Speaker 3: Ethiopia as the real as the comment of another christ

751
00:37:09,756 --> 00:37:14,716
Speaker 3: like individual in that philosophy. In that in that idea,

752
00:37:15,556 --> 00:37:19,196
Speaker 3: a lot of people in Jamaica found are real independence,

753
00:37:20,076 --> 00:37:24,636
Speaker 3: a full break from the colonialist not only the political independence,

754
00:37:24,636 --> 00:37:28,476
Speaker 3: but the mental independence. And that was the rise of

755
00:37:28,476 --> 00:37:30,996
Speaker 3: the Rastafarire culture and the connection with each opera with

756
00:37:31,076 --> 00:37:36,756
Speaker 3: this king, who within the Bible is still represented because

757
00:37:36,796 --> 00:37:40,756
Speaker 3: he is a lineage of King Solomon, and in the

758
00:37:40,796 --> 00:37:43,356
Speaker 3: Bible say he will come again with the name King

759
00:37:43,396 --> 00:37:44,636
Speaker 3: of Kings Ladah, lad.

760
00:37:44,516 --> 00:37:45,996
Speaker 4: Can canna travel Judah.

761
00:37:46,316 --> 00:37:48,596
Speaker 3: And this was the title that this man, this manner

762
00:37:48,676 --> 00:37:51,796
Speaker 3: has And so that strong connection to Ethiopia is fort

763
00:37:51,876 --> 00:37:55,796
Speaker 3: to that because Exodus in a barbad alum called Exodus,

764
00:37:55,876 --> 00:37:59,876
Speaker 3: and Exodus obviously is a relation to the struggle of

765
00:37:59,916 --> 00:38:02,716
Speaker 3: the israel people coming over of Egypt. And so we

766
00:38:02,796 --> 00:38:05,836
Speaker 3: are a strong connection with that whole thing, with David

767
00:38:05,836 --> 00:38:10,036
Speaker 3: and Salomon, and so Rasta far I come through that

768
00:38:10,076 --> 00:38:13,156
Speaker 3: connection with its last I as I descend that of

769
00:38:13,236 --> 00:38:17,636
Speaker 3: Solomon and Sotopia. Ittopia was a big It was like

770
00:38:18,876 --> 00:38:22,476
Speaker 3: Jerusalem or Mecca, or whatever. You know that was Ethop

771
00:38:22,676 --> 00:38:25,036
Speaker 3: was like that for for Rastafari culture.

772
00:38:26,956 --> 00:38:31,956
Speaker 5: So your siblings have crafted their own music careers. The

773
00:38:32,116 --> 00:38:36,276
Speaker 5: question or asks what is the relationship between your siblings

774
00:38:36,556 --> 00:38:39,716
Speaker 5: both musically and and how you relate to each other today?

775
00:38:41,196 --> 00:38:42,796
Speaker 3: So we grew up, all right, So we grew up,

776
00:38:42,956 --> 00:38:45,436
Speaker 3: let's come back, or we grew now because it's very

777
00:38:45,436 --> 00:38:48,236
Speaker 3: important because all right, my father was married to my mother,

778
00:38:48,316 --> 00:38:51,996
Speaker 3: but he had children of a wed right because obviously

779
00:38:52,836 --> 00:38:55,876
Speaker 3: the wed like thing is a colonial thing, and we

780
00:38:55,916 --> 00:38:57,836
Speaker 3: don't deal with colonial things, you know, we are free

781
00:38:57,996 --> 00:39:02,076
Speaker 3: or whatever. So that was my father's you know philosophy.

782
00:39:02,316 --> 00:39:04,996
Speaker 3: After you learn things, they need us free yourself anyway.

783
00:39:05,556 --> 00:39:07,156
Speaker 3: But so we always grew up.

784
00:39:07,196 --> 00:39:08,196
Speaker 4: You know, when my.

785
00:39:08,156 --> 00:39:11,716
Speaker 3: Father would take us to visit, like I'm the oldest son, right,

786
00:39:12,476 --> 00:39:14,676
Speaker 3: so he would take me and sometimes my brother Stephen.

787
00:39:15,276 --> 00:39:17,116
Speaker 3: You know there's a new there was a new baby

788
00:39:17,196 --> 00:39:19,836
Speaker 3: or a new you know. He would drive us to

789
00:39:19,516 --> 00:39:23,156
Speaker 3: the house where my brother, my other brother was who

790
00:39:23,236 --> 00:39:26,476
Speaker 3: was not of my mother, and you know, he would

791
00:39:26,596 --> 00:39:29,476
Speaker 3: visit and we would meet you came on here, meet

792
00:39:29,556 --> 00:39:33,556
Speaker 3: Robbie and meet Rowan or whoever it was. And my

793
00:39:33,716 --> 00:39:37,116
Speaker 3: mother now which is the most important part of this

794
00:39:38,036 --> 00:39:40,636
Speaker 3: was always she was like the mother of all of them,

795
00:39:41,036 --> 00:39:43,476
Speaker 3: like she was the mother of the children who she

796
00:39:43,556 --> 00:39:47,076
Speaker 3: wasn't the mother of basically, so everybody would come to us,

797
00:39:47,276 --> 00:39:49,196
Speaker 3: and you know, my mother would be the one who

798
00:39:49,756 --> 00:39:52,436
Speaker 3: kind of take care of children, whether it was his

799
00:39:52,516 --> 00:39:53,036
Speaker 3: child or not.

800
00:39:53,756 --> 00:39:55,116
Speaker 4: And she is the one whenever.

801
00:39:55,356 --> 00:39:57,676
Speaker 3: She never taught us to like be like vindictive our

802
00:39:57,716 --> 00:40:00,676
Speaker 3: head for our reasentful of my father or of the

803
00:40:00,716 --> 00:40:03,596
Speaker 3: other children. In no way, we were just one family.

804
00:40:04,116 --> 00:40:06,276
Speaker 3: So that's all we that's the lesson we have learned.

805
00:40:06,636 --> 00:40:09,636
Speaker 3: Nobody nobody told us that you shouldn't like that guy

806
00:40:09,716 --> 00:40:11,516
Speaker 3: because he's not your mother's son.

807
00:40:11,996 --> 00:40:15,036
Speaker 4: We never learned that. So that's all we still are today.

808
00:40:15,316 --> 00:40:17,196
Speaker 3: We get together every now and again, but we have

809
00:40:17,356 --> 00:40:21,236
Speaker 3: such a strong connection that we don't have that emotion,

810
00:40:21,356 --> 00:40:25,596
Speaker 3: that deep emotional sadness are like oh I missed my thinger,

811
00:40:25,676 --> 00:40:27,076
Speaker 3: oh my brother or something like that.

812
00:40:27,116 --> 00:40:28,276
Speaker 4: You know, we never grew up that way.

813
00:40:28,316 --> 00:40:30,916
Speaker 3: We grew up a little bit let's emotional, I would say,

814
00:40:30,956 --> 00:40:32,916
Speaker 3: So we don't have that in us. But we do

815
00:40:33,036 --> 00:40:37,036
Speaker 3: have a connection and I love for each other and

816
00:40:37,076 --> 00:40:39,596
Speaker 3: I respect for each other. We never fight each other

817
00:40:39,636 --> 00:40:43,236
Speaker 3: whenever you know, we'll understand each other, and everybody understand

818
00:40:43,276 --> 00:40:47,596
Speaker 3: each other. So that's how we live musically. Me and

819
00:40:47,636 --> 00:40:49,356
Speaker 3: my brother Steve, and we share a lot of music

820
00:40:49,476 --> 00:40:51,756
Speaker 3: them man. Steve is the one who nurtured they man.

821
00:40:51,916 --> 00:40:55,596
Speaker 3: We nurture each other music basically each of us. I

822
00:40:56,676 --> 00:40:59,676
Speaker 3: helped Steve when he was young, Steve his younger brother,

823
00:40:59,716 --> 00:41:01,516
Speaker 3: and we just keep nurturing each other.

824
00:41:01,876 --> 00:41:02,716
Speaker 4: So that's how it is.

825
00:41:03,636 --> 00:41:05,956
Speaker 5: A final question has to do and there are several

826
00:41:06,036 --> 00:41:10,596
Speaker 5: people who ask questions about musical collaboration. Is there anyone

827
00:41:10,756 --> 00:41:14,196
Speaker 5: you would have liked to see your father have collaborated

828
00:41:14,236 --> 00:41:16,636
Speaker 5: with that he did not get to And how do

829
00:41:16,716 --> 00:41:18,676
Speaker 5: you feel about musical collaborations?

830
00:41:18,676 --> 00:41:20,236
Speaker 4: Who would you like to collaborate with?

831
00:41:21,196 --> 00:41:21,236
Speaker 1: No?

832
00:41:21,476 --> 00:41:25,116
Speaker 3: Musical collaboration is a good thing, right In some ways

833
00:41:25,196 --> 00:41:31,276
Speaker 3: it is expanding each of the artists's reach to other audiences,

834
00:41:31,316 --> 00:41:34,876
Speaker 3: which is good. It is showing a true example of

835
00:41:35,316 --> 00:41:37,596
Speaker 3: unification in a way where it can be two different

836
00:41:37,636 --> 00:41:42,036
Speaker 3: types of music blending together to bring to make something new.

837
00:41:43,316 --> 00:41:47,196
Speaker 3: I'm a very shy person, so I don't like to

838
00:41:47,236 --> 00:41:48,916
Speaker 3: ask people for a thing. I don't really like to

839
00:41:48,956 --> 00:41:50,716
Speaker 3: ask people, you know, like hey, can you do this?

840
00:41:51,676 --> 00:41:51,916
Speaker 4: You know?

841
00:41:52,036 --> 00:41:55,156
Speaker 3: So I'm very shy like that, But for some reason

842
00:41:55,276 --> 00:41:58,996
Speaker 3: this year, during the COVID thing, I've done the most

843
00:41:58,996 --> 00:42:03,796
Speaker 3: collaborations I've ever done in ten years, which is very strange.

844
00:42:03,796 --> 00:42:07,436
Speaker 3: It's a very interesting time for me. And how those

845
00:42:07,476 --> 00:42:11,156
Speaker 3: come about, Well, the first colors that I did last

846
00:42:11,196 --> 00:42:14,396
Speaker 3: year was from my kids album, and I think when

847
00:42:14,396 --> 00:42:17,236
Speaker 3: I the children music, I find it's a have a

848
00:42:17,236 --> 00:42:20,676
Speaker 3: different state of when I do the other type my

849
00:42:20,756 --> 00:42:21,436
Speaker 3: other music.

850
00:42:21,956 --> 00:42:22,356
Speaker 4: I don't know.

851
00:42:22,396 --> 00:42:27,996
Speaker 3: Somehow I feel more more comfortable with asking somebody to

852
00:42:28,036 --> 00:42:32,036
Speaker 3: do some for children music, and it has something to

853
00:42:32,076 --> 00:42:34,516
Speaker 3: do with that we have a charitable element to it,

854
00:42:35,676 --> 00:42:37,276
Speaker 3: and so I'm much more comfortable doing that.

855
00:42:37,396 --> 00:42:37,676
Speaker 4: So I did.

856
00:42:37,996 --> 00:42:42,676
Speaker 3: I did a few big collaborations with Ben Cheryl Crow,

857
00:42:42,876 --> 00:42:48,196
Speaker 3: Alanis Morissett, Angelie Kid, Joe, tom Morello, Busta Rhymes. So

858
00:42:48,316 --> 00:42:51,276
Speaker 3: my kids album other like a bog of collaboration, which

859
00:42:51,316 --> 00:42:54,116
Speaker 3: we really enjoy doing. And how I work with collaboration

860
00:42:54,276 --> 00:42:56,316
Speaker 3: is that we have a connection. It can just be

861
00:42:56,396 --> 00:43:00,956
Speaker 3: like a corporate deal, it can be like, you know,

862
00:43:01,076 --> 00:43:04,356
Speaker 3: just have a contractual relationship with it has to be

863
00:43:04,436 --> 00:43:07,396
Speaker 3: something real, and that is why I haven't done a

864
00:43:07,396 --> 00:43:10,076
Speaker 3: lot of collaboration, but a lot of these artists that

865
00:43:10,116 --> 00:43:12,316
Speaker 3: are on that album I've done for years. We've done

866
00:43:12,396 --> 00:43:15,396
Speaker 3: music together. You know, we talk and we text her

867
00:43:15,436 --> 00:43:18,036
Speaker 3: or whatever. So that's how I like to do collaborations.

868
00:43:18,196 --> 00:43:21,716
Speaker 4: For Bob. I can't respect late and that I do.

869
00:43:21,796 --> 00:43:22,676
Speaker 4: I don't want to spect it.

870
00:43:22,756 --> 00:43:26,076
Speaker 3: And that Bob, you know, he was in a collaborative band,

871
00:43:26,196 --> 00:43:29,476
Speaker 3: the way as he collaborated Petere and Bonnie and I

872
00:43:29,596 --> 00:43:33,756
Speaker 3: know Steven and that gentleman stage. I think the collaboration

873
00:43:33,796 --> 00:43:36,036
Speaker 3: and there was also what's his name came back? See

874
00:43:36,076 --> 00:43:39,836
Speaker 3: what's the beatle of guy name? George Harrison. So I

875
00:43:39,876 --> 00:43:45,276
Speaker 3: feel like bob collaboration collaborational spirit was one where if

876
00:43:45,316 --> 00:43:47,076
Speaker 3: he was on stage and somebody wanted to come up,

877
00:43:47,116 --> 00:43:50,076
Speaker 3: he would welcome them up, collabor He's a he's a

878
00:43:50,076 --> 00:43:52,996
Speaker 3: social person, come on up and seeing don't I'm not

879
00:43:53,036 --> 00:43:56,516
Speaker 3: sure about record and I don't know about that, and

880
00:43:56,676 --> 00:43:58,196
Speaker 3: there's no way I can't imagine it.

881
00:43:58,196 --> 00:43:59,316
Speaker 4: I can't respect it on that.

882
00:44:00,396 --> 00:44:03,476
Speaker 5: Well, thanks for joining us, Ziggy Marley, and thank you

883
00:44:03,556 --> 00:44:06,156
Speaker 5: Malcolm glad Well for chatting with Ziggy.

884
00:44:06,356 --> 00:44:09,076
Speaker 4: All right, malcom times man, take care see if guys.

885
00:44:09,116 --> 00:44:13,196
Speaker 1: Pleasure Zicky Bye Bye.

886
00:44:13,596 --> 00:44:17,196
Speaker 2: Thanks to Ziggy Marley for sharing so many fascinating details

887
00:44:17,316 --> 00:44:18,876
Speaker 2: about his life with Bob.

888
00:44:19,396 --> 00:44:19,876
Speaker 1: The book he.

889
00:44:19,956 --> 00:44:23,836
Speaker 2: Curated, Bob Marley Portrait of the Legend, is available now

890
00:44:24,236 --> 00:44:26,156
Speaker 2: and to hear a playlist of our favorite Bob and

891
00:44:26,236 --> 00:44:29,556
Speaker 2: Ziggy Marley songs, check out the playlist we created at

892
00:44:29,556 --> 00:44:33,316
Speaker 2: broken Record podcast dot com. Be sure to subscribe to

893
00:44:33,356 --> 00:44:37,036
Speaker 2: our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash broken Record Podcast,

894
00:44:37,356 --> 00:44:40,676
Speaker 2: where you can find extended cuts of new and old episodes.

895
00:44:41,236 --> 00:44:44,516
Speaker 2: You can follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken

896
00:44:44,556 --> 00:44:47,276
Speaker 2: Record is produced to help from Leah Rose, Jason Gambrel,

897
00:44:47,596 --> 00:44:52,236
Speaker 2: Martin Gonzalez, Eric Sandler, and Jennifer Sanchez, with engineer and

898
00:44:52,276 --> 00:44:55,756
Speaker 2: help from Nick Chafey. Our executive producer is Mei Lobel.

899
00:44:56,356 --> 00:44:59,756
Speaker 2: Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries and he

900
00:44:59,916 --> 00:45:02,156
Speaker 2: liked the show. Please remember to share, rate, and review

901
00:45:02,316 --> 00:45:05,276
Speaker 2: us on your podcast app Our theme musics by Kenny Beats.

902
00:45:05,476 --> 00:45:06,996
Speaker 2: I'm justin Richmond, Peace

903
00:45:09,316 --> 00:45:09,876
Speaker 4: Skip the pin