1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:07,040 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 2: This series features conversations about pregnancy, complications and loss. Please 3 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 2: take care while listening. It's October of twenty twenty three. 4 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:22,160 Speaker 2: I want you to meet Kendall. She works the front 5 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 2: desk at one of kind Body's Chicago clinics. Her title 6 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 2: is patient coordinator. 7 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 3: And that week I was on mail duty. So that 8 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:33,239 Speaker 3: means that you have to go to open up all 9 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:35,839 Speaker 3: the mail. You have to distribute it where it goes 10 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 3: for the doctors. And so I opened it and we 11 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 3: do peruse them like we do have to read them 12 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 3: because they're like if we don't read them, then we 13 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:46,159 Speaker 3: don't know how to trickle it up or what to 14 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 3: do with it. 15 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:50,839 Speaker 2: This part of the job was usually pretty mundane, but 16 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 2: on this day, a letter addressed to doctor Angie Beltzos, 17 00:00:55,360 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 2: Kind Body's chief medical officer stopped Kendall cold. Kendall isn't 18 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 2: her real name. Like others in this series, she asked 19 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:07,200 Speaker 2: us to give her a pseudonym when speaking about the company. 20 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:11,560 Speaker 3: So I read this in the office and my jaw 21 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:17,400 Speaker 3: hit the floor because I was like, what do you mean. 22 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:22,040 Speaker 4: What do you actually mean? We're doing this? 23 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:27,320 Speaker 5: Kendall couldn't hide her disbelief. Her coworker immediately. 24 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 3: Noticed and she was like, what are you reading? And 25 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:34,400 Speaker 3: I was like, dude, I literally looked at her out. 26 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:37,400 Speaker 3: I don't know what I'm reading because I was so 27 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 3: taken aback by this letter, and so I gave it 28 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 3: to her and she was like Jesus Christ, and I go, 29 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 3: what am I supposed to do with this? What am 30 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 3: I supposed to do with this? 31 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 2: The letter was sent by a woman who said she'd 32 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 2: been an egg donor and she was writing to Warren 33 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 2: doctor Beltzos about the man she donated her eggs too, 34 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 2: a billionaire named Greg Lindberg. The woman had donated her 35 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 2: eggs to Greg back in twenty eighteen, and she had 36 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:10,920 Speaker 2: the procedure done at a Chicago clinic which was then 37 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 2: run by Bios, a fertility chain that Angie Beltzos found 38 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 2: it before it was acquired by kind Body. I asked 39 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:18,920 Speaker 2: Kendall to read the letter. 40 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 3: Hello, doctor Angeline Belzo's this masters pertains to your patient Greg. 41 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 3: I am one of his egg donors that went through 42 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 3: Bios in twenty eighteen. 43 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 2: The woman then references a phone call she says she 44 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 2: made to doctor Beltzo's back in twenty twenty, I called you. 45 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 3: To disclose the truth regarding my egg donation experience at BIOS. 46 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 3: I informed you that I had undergone the egg donation 47 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:44,399 Speaker 3: under duress and had been deceived by mister Lindbergh, who 48 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 3: had failed to fulfill the promised compensation for the egg donation. 49 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:54,079 Speaker 2: The woman calls the entire egg donation experience quote completely 50 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 2: unethical and traumatizing, and she references other women who she 51 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 2: says were also pressured to do things they were uncomfortable with. 52 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 5: The letter goes on to say. 53 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:07,400 Speaker 2: That Limberg continued to have more children from other donors 54 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 2: and surrogates after the woman reached out to doctor Beltzoe's 55 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 2: and that during some of that time, Lindberg was in 56 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 2: prison for bribing an insurance commissioner. 57 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 3: Mister Lindbergh currently has at least five or more egg 58 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 3: donors involved in different clinics across the USA. The number 59 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 3: is increasing. In twenty twenty two, mister Lindberg managed to 60 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 3: re create twins through surrogates while incarcerated in a federal prison, 61 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 3: indicating that his family is continually expanding through the helps 62 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 3: of these fertility clinics. 63 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 2: Over the last six years, Lindberg has had nine children 64 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 2: with the help of donors and surrogates. Documents I've reviewed 65 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 2: show that three of Lindberg's babies were born while he 66 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 2: was in prison, and two of them with the help 67 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 2: of BIOS and later Kind Body. I've also seen surrogate 68 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 2: contracts that Limberg electronically sign from behind bars, which listed 69 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 2: doctor Baltzos as the designated medical provider and Lindbergh as 70 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 2: the sole intended parent. In February of twenty twenty two, 71 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 2: Kind Body bought Bios and the clinic continued to play 72 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 2: a crucial role in Lindberg's baby project. Out of the 73 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 2: six additional children Lindberg went on to have since that time, 74 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:25,839 Speaker 2: three of them were born through surrogates treated at Kind Body. 75 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:29,719 Speaker 2: The letter continues with the woman saying she and other 76 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 2: egg donors are concerned that Lindberg is lying to them 77 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:34,600 Speaker 2: about what is happening with their eggs. 78 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 5: The woman says he. 79 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 2: Originally promised to tell her when he used her embryos 80 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:43,839 Speaker 2: and whether any children were created, but she says she 81 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 2: doesn't trust him to be honest about that. She ends 82 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 2: it by writing. 83 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 3: I sincerely hope that you took my phone call in 84 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:54,039 Speaker 3: twenty twenty seriously and kept ethics in mind, and that 85 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 3: you have not assisted mister Lindberg in his efforts to 86 00:04:57,080 --> 00:04:58,279 Speaker 3: create additional children. 87 00:04:58,360 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 5: Sincerely, the patient. 88 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:05,159 Speaker 2: So the letter addressed to kind Body painted a disturbing 89 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 2: picture of what it suggested the company was taking part in. 90 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 2: Kind Body said that it didn't acquire bios until years 91 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 2: after the first stages of Lindberg's baby project. It declined 92 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 2: to comment further for this podcast. Doctor Baltzos didn't respond 93 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 2: to interview requests from Bloomberg and iHeart podcasts. You're listening 94 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:31,800 Speaker 2: to IVF disrupted the kind Body story. I'm your host, 95 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 2: Jackie Devalos. 96 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:38,720 Speaker 5: You've heard how. 97 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:41,720 Speaker 2: Kind Body is a fertility chain that operates like a startup. 98 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 2: Much of its funding came from venture capital and private 99 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:48,559 Speaker 2: equity firms, and it's push to expand quickly, to open 100 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 2: more clinics, to bring in more patients, and to make 101 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 2: more profits. Its founder, Gina Bartesi, compared the company to 102 00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 2: a rocket ship to the moon, and she once suggested 103 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 2: to a group of employees that they would make so 104 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:06,480 Speaker 2: much money they'd each have their own private jets. But 105 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 2: the move fast and break things mentality is a dangerous 106 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 2: game when you're talking about IVF and women's bodies, their embryos, 107 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:18,039 Speaker 2: and their hopes of creating a family are all on 108 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 2: the line. In the previous episode, we heard from women 109 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 2: who felt kind Body push them into procedures they didn't need. 110 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:30,520 Speaker 2: Now we'll hear about kind Body burning through cash and 111 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 2: taking on patients that other clinics were hesitant to treat. 112 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:42,039 Speaker 2: We'll be right back. Let's get back to Kendall. She's 113 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:44,480 Speaker 2: the kind Body employee who was working the front desk 114 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 2: in a Chicago clinic. She was holding this letter that 115 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:52,279 Speaker 2: was sounding the alarm on a billionaire, Greg Lindbergh and 116 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 2: what he called, quote the baby Project. She had never 117 00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 2: met this woman who wrote the letter and had never 118 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 2: seen Lindberg in person, but Kendall does remember when lind 119 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:04,680 Speaker 2: Berg's name first came on her radar. 120 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:08,360 Speaker 3: I remember I was trying to collect payment for one 121 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 3: of the services and I couldn't collect the payment, and 122 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 3: they're like, oh, do this, this, this, this, and this, 123 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 3: and I was like, okay, well I did that. So 124 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 3: I had to call my manager and then my manager 125 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 3: was like, oh ha ha, we do it this way 126 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 3: because he's in prison. 127 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 5: And I was like, Dad is so weird, Kendall said. 128 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 5: Some things were off. 129 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 2: Lind Berg's assistant coordinated appointments for egg donors and surrogates. 130 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 5: This was widely known at the clinic. 131 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 2: She remembered one day when one of linn Berg's surrogates 132 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 2: checked in for an appointment. 133 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 3: I would do my normal Greek for hi, welcome in. 134 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 3: Can I have your first and last? And I just 135 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 3: remember she wouldn't make eye contact with me. She kept 136 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 3: saying everything, but she was looking down. She wasn't trying 137 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 3: to not connect, but she wasn't trying to involve herself. 138 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 3: And the assistant was doing a lot of the talking too. 139 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 5: This wasn't how it usually worked. 140 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 3: Normally, the intended parents would come with the carrier and 141 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 3: if the partner is available, they come. But it was 142 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 3: just all very strange, just strange behavior, strange how we 143 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 3: danced around the looke holes. It was almost like everything 144 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 3: was catered around him. 145 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 2: Lindberg built his fortune first through his private equity firm 146 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 2: ELI Global, which bought businesses in a wide range of 147 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:44,719 Speaker 2: industries medical coders, travel firms, a seller of sports collectibles. 148 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:48,439 Speaker 2: But it was buying up insurance companies that made Lindberg 149 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 2: a billionaire. In twenty twenty, a consulting firm pegged his 150 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:57,080 Speaker 2: net worth at his highs, about one point five billion dollars. 151 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 2: Over the past several years, he's been convicted in federal 152 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:04,600 Speaker 2: court twice for bribery, and he pleaded guilty in a 153 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 2: third case in November of twenty twenty four for money 154 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 2: laundering and fraud. These charges stem from a two billion 155 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 2: dollar scheme to funnel money from his insurance companies to 156 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 2: use for his personal benefit. Right now, he's facing as 157 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:24,679 Speaker 2: much as thirty years in prison. By contrast, Lindbergh's baby 158 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 2: project didn't seem to break any laws. He made a 159 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 2: plan to have as many as fifty children through a 160 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 2: web of egg donors and surrogates. 161 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 5: I pieced this. 162 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 2: Together by reviewing thousands of pages of company documents, legal, 163 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 2: medical and financial records. I also conducted dozens of interviews 164 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 2: with Lindberg's former employees, clinic workers, ex girlfriends, egg donors, 165 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 2: and surrogates. Lindberg sent egg donors to clinics in California, Illinois, Nevada, 166 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:01,079 Speaker 2: and Barbados, but the majority of his owns and surrogates 167 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 2: at least eleven received treatment at the clinic in Chicago 168 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 2: that was run by Bios, and then kind Body, a 169 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 2: clinic in Los Angeles not related to kind Body, also 170 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:17,720 Speaker 2: did a lot of fertility procedures on Lindberg's behalf. I 171 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:20,360 Speaker 2: wrote about this baby project in a story with my 172 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 2: colleague Sophia Alexander that was published last year in Bloomberg 173 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:28,560 Speaker 2: Business Week. Lindberg participated in interviews for the article, but 174 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 2: in the months leading up to publication, he cut off 175 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 2: contact and filed a lawsuit against me and Sophie in 176 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:38,680 Speaker 2: state court in Florida, alleging defamation, slander, and interference in 177 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 2: his business relationships. After the article actually ran, he sued 178 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 2: us again, this time in Florida Federal court, making more 179 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 2: or less the same allegations. In May, he asked the 180 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:52,680 Speaker 2: state court to dismiss that case, saying it was largely 181 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 2: duplicative of the federal case, and then in August, the 182 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:59,440 Speaker 2: federal court dismissed all of his claims against Bloomberg and 183 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 2: me and Sofia. I should also know I reached out 184 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:05,679 Speaker 2: to Lindbergh again while preparing the series and told him 185 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:07,960 Speaker 2: what I was planning to report about him, and he 186 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 2: didn't respond back at kind body. Kendall was stunned by 187 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:16,720 Speaker 2: the egg donor's letter, so she took this problem to 188 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:17,559 Speaker 2: her superiors. 189 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 3: I'm going to bring it to my manager and her 190 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 3: higher up her manager, and so I brought it up 191 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 3: to them. They had me scan it over to them, 192 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 3: and it was basically like, okay, well we'll handle this now. 193 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:35,960 Speaker 5: Were you expecting what kind of reaction? Were you expecting 194 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 5: shock and awe? 195 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 3: Definitely shock and all, but there was no shock and 196 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 3: there was no awe, Like it was just like another 197 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:46,320 Speaker 3: day run of the mill for them. They were just like, 198 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 3: oh yeah, totally. And I was like, this is huge, 199 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 3: and I go, should I present this letter to doctor 200 00:11:55,440 --> 00:12:00,200 Speaker 3: Beltzo's And I remember my manager specifically telling me do 201 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 3: not give it to doctor Beltzos, and so I was like, 202 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:05,959 Speaker 3: what can be done. 203 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:08,320 Speaker 2: I spoke to the woman who sent the letter to 204 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:12,680 Speaker 2: doctor Beltzos. She was one of Lindbergh's egg donors. She 205 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 2: didn't want to be recorded for this podcast for fear 206 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 2: of retribution, but she told me that when she spoke 207 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 2: with doctor Beltzos in twenty twenty, the doctor suggested she 208 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:26,719 Speaker 2: should watch YouTube meditation videos and relax. I reached out 209 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 2: to doctor Beltzo's last year before my investigation was published, 210 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:33,440 Speaker 2: and again for this podcast. She has not responded to 211 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 2: any requests for comment. The woman also told me that 212 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:39,840 Speaker 2: the letter she sent in October of twenty twenty three, 213 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:43,640 Speaker 2: the one Kendall saw, was also sent to other leaders 214 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 2: at kind Body, including Gena Bartesi. 215 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 5: No one replied to her. 216 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:55,080 Speaker 2: Gina Bartesi declined to comment for this series. I wanted 217 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:58,080 Speaker 2: to know more about how Lindbergh's baby project was seen 218 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 2: by other fertility clinics and doctors. In the course of 219 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 2: my reporting, I learned that Lindberg had actually been denied 220 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:09,319 Speaker 2: treatment at another fertility clinic. It happened when he first 221 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 2: embarked on this quest in twenty eighteen, he went to 222 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 2: Duke Fertility Center. Lindberg was upfront about what he was doing. 223 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 5: He wanted to. 224 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 2: Have four surrogates pregnant. At the same time, he told 225 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 2: the doctor at Duke that he had already arranged for 226 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 2: a woman to be paid one point five million dollars 227 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 2: to donate her eggs, and one of his assistants would 228 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 2: carry the first baby. According to three people who were 229 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:37,080 Speaker 2: involved in the baby project at this time, the doctor. 230 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:38,200 Speaker 5: Refused to treat him. 231 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:41,680 Speaker 2: They said she was troubled by what she heard, but 232 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 2: I wanted to know why she wouldn't talk to me, 233 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:49,320 Speaker 2: so I interviewed more than two dozen doctors, embriologists, and psychologists. 234 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 2: I wanted to understand what a fertility clinic is supposed 235 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 2: to do when something like this comes up. There are 236 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 2: some enforceable guardrails on who can donate eggs. The FDA 237 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:03,720 Speaker 2: requires fertility clinics to collect a donor's medical history and 238 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 2: test for infectious diseases. The rest is left up to 239 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:12,560 Speaker 2: the American Society for Reproductive Medicine or ASRM. It's an 240 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:16,840 Speaker 2: industry group for fertility clinics. They craft guidelines on what 241 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:21,400 Speaker 2: to do or not to do for themselves, so essentially 242 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 2: they're self policing, and these are just guidelines, suggestions, really 243 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 2: not hard and fast rules. For example, they strongly recommend 244 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 2: that the egg donor undergoes an extensive psychological evaluation, which 245 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 2: probes into everything from work history, financial stability, and a 246 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 2: history of mental illness. Experts say a proper evaluation can 247 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 2: take anywhere from an hour to several sessions, and it 248 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 2: should take longer if the donor knows who she's donating 249 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 2: to One of the goals is to see if she's 250 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 2: being pressured into donating. Doctor julianne's Wifle is a psychologist 251 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 2: specializing in reproductive health at the University of Wisconsin. I 252 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 2: met her last year at the fertility industry's biggest annuel gathering. 253 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:11,160 Speaker 2: Doctor's Swifele served on the ethics committee at ASRM for 254 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 2: six years, so she's seen her fair share of complicated cases. 255 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 2: She said that when she counsels her patients, she's trying 256 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:21,720 Speaker 2: to gauge whether the woman donating her eggs is making 257 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 2: a well informed decision. 258 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 6: One of the big things you're also trying to make 259 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 6: sure isn't going on is a level of coercion, either 260 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:33,640 Speaker 6: overt or assumed. But that doesn't mean you really want 261 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 6: to do it. 262 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 7: But are you? 263 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 6: Are you in a position where you can say no? 264 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 6: If somebody can't say no, it doesn't really feel like 265 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 6: a free choice any longer. 266 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 2: There isn't a cap on how much egg donors can 267 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 2: be paid for their eggs. Most donors are paid somewhere 268 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 2: between eight and twenty five thousand dollars. Lindbergh was paying 269 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 2: his donors as much as one point five million dollars. 270 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 2: Doctors I spoke to said this would be a major 271 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 2: red flag because for some donors that amount of money 272 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 2: is kind of impossible to pass up. Another thing that 273 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 2: Lindbergh wanted to do was to have multiple women pregnant 274 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 2: at the same time. Doctor's wifele said this should have 275 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 2: also raised concerns. She stressed that a doctor's responsibility is 276 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:23,120 Speaker 2: to all of the patients, the donor and the surrogate 277 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:26,520 Speaker 2: and the intended parent, not just the one paying the 278 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 2: clinic fees. A surrogate's needs need to be carefully considered too, 279 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:35,400 Speaker 2: because the process of carrying someone else's child isn't just 280 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 2: physically taxing. It can also be emotionally complicated. If you 281 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 2: have multiple donors and multiple surrogates at the same time, 282 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 2: there might be a tendency to treat them like things. 283 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 6: We have to treat the carrier as a human who 284 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 6: could be harmed, and I don't want carriers to be harmed. 285 00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 6: And intended parents, I'm really trying to get a sense 286 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 6: of are they going to respect this person, Do they 287 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:06,160 Speaker 6: see them as a whole human They're not just I'd 288 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 6: never use the word oven. Oven is a piece of 289 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:10,919 Speaker 6: equipment you know this is a person. 290 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:15,440 Speaker 2: There was another problem with Lindbergh's baby project. His first 291 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:18,719 Speaker 2: surrogate was his assistant. She had worked for him at 292 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:19,760 Speaker 2: his private equity firm. 293 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 6: You can't have an employee of yours beer carrier, because 294 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:26,920 Speaker 6: that is coercion like, because she will feel she can't 295 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 6: say no right because now she's at risk of losing 296 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 6: her job. 297 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:36,480 Speaker 2: Lindbergh was able to do what he did because without regulation, 298 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:41,240 Speaker 2: America's fertility industry is a marketplace for almost anything is 299 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:42,720 Speaker 2: possible if you have enough money. 300 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:46,639 Speaker 7: When it comes to third party reproduction, we're in a 301 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 7: really weird, sticky place. 302 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:52,840 Speaker 2: That's doctor Brian Levine. He's a founding doctor at CCRM 303 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:55,640 Speaker 2: New York. It's part of a big chain of fertility 304 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 2: clinics that is owned by private equity. 305 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:00,280 Speaker 7: And the reason is weird and sticky. He has this 306 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:06,040 Speaker 7: unregulated and unchecked. There is no national registry in America 307 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 7: to know how many times someone has donated X, nor 308 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 7: how many times someone has donated a sperm. 309 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:16,640 Speaker 2: And yet, even to doctor Levine, Greg Lindberg stood out. 310 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:18,720 Speaker 7: I've never had a patient say to me, I want 311 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:21,240 Speaker 7: to get three D surrogates pregnant in one year, never 312 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 7: seen it, never had it happen. I've heard of it, 313 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:26,639 Speaker 7: but I've never actually had that clinical experience. 314 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 2: What Lindbergh wanted went beyond anything doctor Levine had encountered 315 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:35,919 Speaker 2: in his career. Multiple donors at the same clinic, surrogates 316 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:41,000 Speaker 2: who were employees, payments that dwarfed normal compensation. But the 317 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:43,320 Speaker 2: system has no mechanism to stop it. 318 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 7: There's no laws. It's an unregulated space. There's laws by 319 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:53,159 Speaker 7: the FDA, the Fund and Drug Administration, there's laws of 320 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:56,399 Speaker 7: reporting by the CDC, the Center for Disease Control, But 321 00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 7: when it comes to who has the opportunity to work 322 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 7: with a surrogate, it's very clear that is up the 323 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:03,480 Speaker 7: discretion of the treating physician. 324 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:07,960 Speaker 2: Lindbergh's efforts might sound extreme, but he's taking part in 325 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:11,919 Speaker 2: a small but high profile trend wealthy men having a 326 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:17,480 Speaker 2: large number of children to fulfill their reproductive ambitions. Elon Musk, 327 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:21,159 Speaker 2: who has fathered at least fourteen children, has repeatedly warned 328 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 2: about population collapse and urged more people to have more babies, 329 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:31,440 Speaker 2: calling it quote the biggest danger civilization faces. Then there's Paveldurov, 330 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 2: the founder of Telegram, who said in a June interview 331 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 2: that he has fathered over a hundred children by donating sperm. 332 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 2: As long as the IVF industry remains largely unregulated, there's 333 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:45,680 Speaker 2: little to stop the next billionaire with the baby project 334 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:51,120 Speaker 2: from finding a willing clinic to help. Doctor Levine says 335 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:55,640 Speaker 2: Greg Linberg's baby project at kind Body pointed to institutional failure. 336 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 7: A lot of things just kind of went through holes, 337 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:02,680 Speaker 7: and the holes just lined up in this one scenario 338 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 7: where they person went from checkbook to baby. And I 339 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 7: will argue that leadership starts at the top, and so 340 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:13,600 Speaker 7: that was pervasive in this clinic where it happened with 341 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:16,119 Speaker 7: multiple individuals, even though they were all assigned to one 342 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:19,720 Speaker 7: intended parent. I would argue that there was a dangerous 343 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:23,080 Speaker 7: culture that occurred within that clinic. And I would worry 344 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 7: about the other outcomes that have happened there as well 345 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 7: that aren't being reported to you. 346 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:30,520 Speaker 2: For the woman who tried to sound the alarm with 347 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:33,640 Speaker 2: her letter, going through the courts wasn't going to yield 348 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 2: the accountability she wanted. She felt the clinic bore some 349 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:40,720 Speaker 2: responsibility because after all, she was. 350 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:41,400 Speaker 5: A patient too. 351 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 2: She'd warned doctor Beltsos multiple times, there were no consequences 352 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 2: for Limberg. Kendall, the kind Body employee who opened the letter, 353 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 2: was frustrated that the clinic wasn't doing anything. She told 354 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 2: her superiors, she told her colleagues. 355 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 3: And so I was like, what can be done? And 356 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:04,160 Speaker 3: I was talking to my other coworker who was well 357 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:07,440 Speaker 3: aware of this situation, and she goes, we just don't 358 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,639 Speaker 3: do anything about it. We just don't just leave it. 359 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:14,560 Speaker 3: And I was like, no, that's not right. What struck 360 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:16,159 Speaker 3: me was like reading that letter. I was like, this 361 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 3: woman is in pain, and I can't imagine her experience 362 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:20,439 Speaker 3: and what she had to go through. 363 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:25,880 Speaker 2: According to Kendall, Lindbergh wasn't the only patient that kind 364 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:29,879 Speaker 2: Body was accepting that other clinics were hesitant to treat, 365 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:34,600 Speaker 2: like women in their fifties or patients who were considered 366 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:37,159 Speaker 2: too overweight to be eligible for IVF. 367 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 3: Working at kind Body, we were like the dumpster fire. 368 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 3: That was our model, Like you would come to us 369 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:44,920 Speaker 3: if everyone else denied you, because we would put you through. 370 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 2: Kind Body framed this as a point of pride by 371 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 2: They're telling they were expanding access to anyone who wanted 372 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 2: to have a baby, But to Kendall, after everything she 373 00:21:56,160 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 2: had seen. This wasn't out of compassion, It was at greed. 374 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:04,960 Speaker 3: I just saw over and over and over again, them 375 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:09,800 Speaker 3: pushing through these geriatric patients that were not getting the results, 376 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 3: and then every single time they just changed protocol to say, oh, 377 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,199 Speaker 3: next time it will be it. But then you have 378 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 3: some patients that are going through twenty one rounds being older, 379 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 3: and they're just told oh, next time, Oh, next time, 380 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:28,760 Speaker 3: But no one's having the real conversation and being transparent 381 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 3: with these patients. There was women in their fifties and 382 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 3: men in their seventies. 383 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:37,439 Speaker 2: At this stage, the chances of getting pregnant are lower, 384 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 2: so these older patients often ended up spending more money 385 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:44,160 Speaker 2: on IVF than people in their thirties and forties. 386 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:47,560 Speaker 3: There was so much that fell in between the cracks, 387 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 3: because again it was kind of like get them in, retrieve, transplant, 388 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:56,000 Speaker 3: get them out, like that was that was it. And 389 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,119 Speaker 3: I do think a lot of it got lost in 390 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 3: lost in between, you know, just because so many people 391 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:04,919 Speaker 3: are coming in, but we're not looking at I don't know, 392 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,879 Speaker 3: we're not keeping the morality compass in mind. Like I 393 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:10,080 Speaker 3: do think a lot of times morals were thrown out, 394 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:13,480 Speaker 3: and just the price tag was what was making the 395 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:16,520 Speaker 3: doctors keep going. I do have people in my life 396 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:17,680 Speaker 3: that were looking into fertility. 397 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:19,399 Speaker 5: I said, do not go to kind Body. 398 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:23,440 Speaker 2: So this is the thorny situation that the IVF industry 399 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:27,359 Speaker 2: finds itself in. In this series, you've heard from many 400 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 2: patients who feel they've been harmed and disillusioned employees who 401 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:34,119 Speaker 2: think that kind Body and the larger industry should do better. 402 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 2: They're begging for improvements, but does the industry have the 403 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:43,840 Speaker 2: will to change. By twenty twenty four, kind Body was 404 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 2: in a full financial crisis. They'd burn through investor money 405 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:51,400 Speaker 2: and they'd failed to secure another funding round. The company 406 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:54,040 Speaker 2: that was once valued at one point eight billion dollars 407 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 2: was running on fumes. Gina Bartesi hadn't been CEO for 408 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:02,040 Speaker 2: two years. In June of twenty twenty four, she took 409 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 2: over the job again. The company built it as a 410 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 2: move to steer kind Body during a time of unprecedented growth, 411 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:13,680 Speaker 2: but that same summer, kind Body abruptly started closing clinics. 412 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 2: One of the first to close was in Crest Hill, Illinois, 413 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 2: not far from where Kendall worked in Chicago. 414 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 3: So they told us Crest Hill was closing, and I 415 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:26,400 Speaker 3: was like, oh, okay, so we're gonna like have transferred time, 416 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:28,760 Speaker 3: like it's closing, but there's They were saying that they 417 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 3: were going to phase things out, and the next day 418 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 3: I came in and it was like, oh, no, Crest 419 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 3: Hills closed, and I was like, we. 420 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 8: What do you mean? 421 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 3: Patients were losing their minds and we were just told, oh, 422 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:44,800 Speaker 3: handel it as best you can. 423 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 2: Patients discovered their clinics had shuttered through phone calls with 424 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:52,200 Speaker 2: frantic receptionists. Some were right in the middle of treatment, 425 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:55,800 Speaker 2: they had retrievals scheduled, and their bodies were flooded with 426 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:59,880 Speaker 2: thousands of dollars worth of fertility drugs. Others had embryo 427 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,879 Speaker 2: transfers on the calendar for just the following week. 428 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 3: Our phones were ringing like every minute of every single 429 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 3: day because no one knew what was going on, and 430 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:12,920 Speaker 3: we were told like an exert of what to say, 431 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,120 Speaker 3: but like these patients were still flying blind. They didn't 432 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 3: know what was happening, and kind body was not giving 433 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 3: them that information. And the information that they were giving 434 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:25,520 Speaker 3: them was like half asked, Oh, don't worry, you'll still 435 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:26,720 Speaker 3: get the best. 436 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 2: Care, and I was like, girl, this is not the 437 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 2: best care right now. 438 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 3: And because they did that, we we had to absorb 439 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:39,440 Speaker 3: so many patients in the Chicago offices. 440 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:42,760 Speaker 2: Then the Detroit clinic closed. 441 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,000 Speaker 3: I remember specifically there was a woman that was supposed 442 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,160 Speaker 3: to get a transfer done like the next week that 443 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:54,439 Speaker 3: Detroit had closed, and this woman called me sobbing. She 444 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 3: was like, I have to do these things you're telling me, 445 00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:58,400 Speaker 3: I have to go to another clinic. 446 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:02,920 Speaker 2: After all of this, Kendall hit her breaking point, and. 447 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:04,760 Speaker 3: So I was like, I'm like officially done with this 448 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:08,639 Speaker 3: company because the only thing you all are interested in 449 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:09,439 Speaker 3: is money. 450 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:12,840 Speaker 2: According to a document I saw and people with knowledge 451 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:16,080 Speaker 2: of the matter, the company was scrambling for ten million 452 00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:18,760 Speaker 2: dollars in bridge financing just to keep the lights on. 453 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:24,880 Speaker 2: The rocket ship was sputtering. In December twenty twenty four, 454 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:30,800 Speaker 2: Bloomberg BusinessWeek published My investigation into Lindbergh's baby project. A 455 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,440 Speaker 2: Kind Body spokeswoman said in a statement at the time 456 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:39,400 Speaker 2: that Bloomberg's reporting was quote categorically false. Kind Body said 457 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 2: it had hired an outside law firm to conduct an 458 00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 2: independent review of the allegations. A week later, Kind Body 459 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 2: announced that Gina Bartesy was stepping down from her second 460 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:53,679 Speaker 2: turn as CEO. When I first heard about the news, 461 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,280 Speaker 2: I texted Gina and she told me quote it had 462 00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 2: been planned for months. Former execusatives and people familiar with 463 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,320 Speaker 2: discussions that kind Body's board were having at this time 464 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,399 Speaker 2: told me Gina had actually been asked to step down. 465 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 2: Two months after that, in February of twenty twenty five, 466 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 2: doctor Angie Beltzos, who treated Lindbergh, stepped down from her 467 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:19,400 Speaker 2: role as chief physician. When I asked Gina and kind 468 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 2: Body about my reporting, representatives pointed out she was instrumental 469 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:27,199 Speaker 2: in building a company that has expanded access to reproductive 470 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 2: health care. Kind Bodies said partnerships with Walmart, for example, 471 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:35,480 Speaker 2: have expanded access in rural fertility deserts, and that nearly 472 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:39,399 Speaker 2: ten thousand families exist or have grown during Gina's tenure 473 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:43,359 Speaker 2: at kind Body alone. I reached out to former kind 474 00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,200 Speaker 2: Body employees when I first heard that Gina was stepping down. 475 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,399 Speaker 2: Here's Tracy Sosa, an early employee who worked at their 476 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 2: Princeton clinic. 477 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:54,800 Speaker 9: At the end of the day, she has a brilliant mind, 478 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,800 Speaker 9: she's a great businesswoman. All those things I won't take 479 00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 9: that away from her, and she was always very lovely 480 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:01,040 Speaker 9: to me. 481 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 2: So any are you surprised she resigned? 482 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 9: Yeah, we're staying down again, which I'm sure it probably 483 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,840 Speaker 9: killed her to do, I would think, because this is 484 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,480 Speaker 9: like your baby, right, she started it from nothing and 485 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 9: built it into what it was. 486 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:17,920 Speaker 2: Dozens of people I talked to who worked at kind 487 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,359 Speaker 2: Body said that at some point the company lost its way, 488 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:26,399 Speaker 2: that it's strayed from its original mission. Tracy was dismayed 489 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,160 Speaker 2: by what my reporting on Lindbergh and his baby project 490 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:29,760 Speaker 2: had revealed. 491 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 1: When you posted that story about the millionaire, I sent 492 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 1: it to my family. 493 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:39,240 Speaker 9: I was like, literally like has no bottom, Like I'm 494 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 9: seething when I I can't believe it? 495 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:43,360 Speaker 10: Do you? 496 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:46,880 Speaker 9: How do you go that far and then continue to 497 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:48,960 Speaker 9: go and double down? 498 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 7: Now? Where are all those kids? 499 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:53,600 Speaker 9: Honestly, where are all those babies? 500 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:56,840 Speaker 5: And who has them? 501 00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 1: Are their mothers? 502 00:28:57,640 --> 00:28:57,960 Speaker 6: Okay? 503 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 1: But as long as the clinic's taking money though, you 504 00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:04,960 Speaker 1: see what I'm saying, Like, that's crazy, it's scary. 505 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 2: I asked kind Body about its internal review of the 506 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:12,960 Speaker 2: allegations related to Greg Lindberg. The company declined to say 507 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:17,520 Speaker 2: what it found. Kind Body continues to operate, though in 508 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:21,760 Speaker 2: a diminished form. In the past year, it's closed six clinics, 509 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:26,840 Speaker 2: including in Portland, Columbus, and Vancouver. The company opened one 510 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:30,120 Speaker 2: new clinic in Charlotte, North Carolina, after years of trying 511 00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 2: to get it off the ground, but plans in other cities, 512 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:37,800 Speaker 2: including Miami and Philadelphia, haven't yielded anything. Several of its 513 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:41,240 Speaker 2: top doctors and lab directors have resigned or been laid off. 514 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:45,000 Speaker 2: The chief financial officer, who had been serving as co 515 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:48,520 Speaker 2: CEO after Gina's departure, left the company in the spring, 516 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,959 Speaker 2: along with the chief technology officer. For the employees who 517 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:56,719 Speaker 2: believed in kind Body's original mission, watching its decline has 518 00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:01,960 Speaker 2: been difficult, they joined a company that promised to transform 519 00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:06,640 Speaker 2: women's healthcare, to treat patients holistically, to make fertility care 520 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 2: feel less clinical and more human. They feel disillusioned. 521 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:14,160 Speaker 9: Don't get me into there on this cheerleading Pom pom 522 00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 9: women empowerment. 523 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:17,880 Speaker 5: It's going to be a great esthetic. 524 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:22,240 Speaker 9: It's going to have the holistic aspect. You didn't give 525 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:25,440 Speaker 9: me anything. You took away my career, you tarnished my name, 526 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:28,280 Speaker 9: or whatever you did to never get me hired again. 527 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,640 Speaker 2: Dozens of former employees told me kind Body had a 528 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 2: culture of fear and intimidation that made it difficult to 529 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:36,400 Speaker 2: speak out. 530 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:38,360 Speaker 5: I found out about. 531 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:41,000 Speaker 2: Some instances where employees who raised concerns about how the 532 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,960 Speaker 2: business was being run or abruptly sued when they quit 533 00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:48,720 Speaker 2: in protest. Throughout my reporting, kind Body sent legal letters 534 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:51,880 Speaker 2: to people that suspected of speaking with me. They threatened 535 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:55,560 Speaker 2: to sue if they spoke out about the company. As 536 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,640 Speaker 2: kind body struggles in the industry became more widely known, 537 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:02,320 Speaker 2: former employe like Tracy told me they felt like their 538 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:04,960 Speaker 2: careers were tainted by having kind Body on the resume. 539 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 1: I told you in that first the first time we spoke. 540 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:12,200 Speaker 1: I knew once I spoke, I was done and it 541 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 1: was really hard to get a job and to find 542 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 1: some stability. So if I'm going from not having money 543 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,120 Speaker 1: to buy food for my kids and for myself and 544 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:25,640 Speaker 1: to get to where I am now, I could still 545 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,880 Speaker 1: sleep at night. I'm really sad that it came to 546 00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 1: all that, because they really had some talented, really great 547 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:35,800 Speaker 1: people working for them, and they really had a great 548 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 1: idea to help women because it wasn't just treating the 549 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 1: patient medically. They had the nutrition, the holistic like I said, 550 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:45,280 Speaker 1: so they really hit something there. 551 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:49,640 Speaker 2: In twenty twenty five, kind Body appointed a new CEO, 552 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:54,680 Speaker 2: David Stern. He was previously the CEO of Boston IVF, 553 00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:57,960 Speaker 2: a fertility network that is widely respected by people in 554 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,880 Speaker 2: the industry, and before that he worked at various healthcare 555 00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:06,240 Speaker 2: companies in operational or management roles. He's not a doctor, 556 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:10,640 Speaker 2: he's a business guy. Employees I spoke to, past and 557 00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:14,200 Speaker 2: current have high hopes that David will turn the company around. 558 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:17,720 Speaker 2: We wanted to hear about his plans for kind Body 559 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:21,280 Speaker 2: and invited him for an interview, but he declined. 560 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:23,920 Speaker 5: We'll be right back. 561 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 2: David Stern's appointment signals that kind Body is trying to 562 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:37,320 Speaker 2: turn things around, But the problems I've uncovered at this 563 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:43,160 Speaker 2: company are symptoms of something much bigger. Over the past 564 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 2: two and a half years of reporting, I kept coming 565 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:49,480 Speaker 2: back to the same question, how did we get here? 566 00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:54,560 Speaker 2: How did an industry that creates life, that fulfills people's 567 00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 2: deepest dreams of having children become a place where embryos 568 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:03,200 Speaker 2: get mislabeled, where billionaires can essentially buy babies, and where 569 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,680 Speaker 2: patients feel like they're being upsold rather than cared for. 570 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,840 Speaker 2: The answer lies in a fundamental tension at the heart 571 00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:14,760 Speaker 2: of American fertility care. On the one side, you have 572 00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:18,400 Speaker 2: the miracle of modern medicine, the ability to help people 573 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:23,000 Speaker 2: have children who otherwise couldn't. On the other side, you 574 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:27,160 Speaker 2: have an industry that operates with virtually no oversight for 575 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:31,520 Speaker 2: market forces reign supreme, where patients often have no way 576 00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:36,080 Speaker 2: to distinguish between good clinics and bad ones. This lack 577 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:40,480 Speaker 2: of transparency affects everyone who walks through a fertility clinics doors. 578 00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:46,120 Speaker 2: Patients are essentially flying blind. I spoke to Adam Wolf 579 00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:49,600 Speaker 2: about this lack of transparency. He's a lawyer who specializes 580 00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:50,720 Speaker 2: in fertility litigation. 581 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:55,520 Speaker 4: The vast majority of the errors are unknown by the public. 582 00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:01,320 Speaker 4: They are probably unknown by the patients themselves. People aren't 583 00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:03,040 Speaker 4: told that there arers, and in fact, maybe even the 584 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:07,160 Speaker 4: fertility clinic doesn't know their errors. The instances that we 585 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:11,080 Speaker 4: know of where the wrong embryo was transferred to somebody 586 00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:14,600 Speaker 4: because that embryo belonged to another couple, how do we 587 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:17,719 Speaker 4: know about that. It's because the child is of a 588 00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:22,239 Speaker 4: different race than the couple. So how many times has 589 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:26,120 Speaker 4: that happened, but we're unaware of it because the child 590 00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:28,040 Speaker 4: is of the race that the couple expected. 591 00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:32,279 Speaker 2: Adam has represented some very high profile embryo mix ups 592 00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:35,400 Speaker 2: over the years. It's given him a deep sense of 593 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:39,480 Speaker 2: the disconnect between how clinics present themselves and what's actually 594 00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:40,440 Speaker 2: going on in the lab. 595 00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:42,840 Speaker 5: The reason we don't. 596 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:45,479 Speaker 2: Know the true scope of errors and fertility clinics comes 597 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:50,040 Speaker 2: down to two things. First, there's no requirement for clinics 598 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:54,680 Speaker 2: to track or report their mistakes. Unlike hospitals, which must 599 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:58,520 Speaker 2: report certain adverse events, or airlines which must report in 600 00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:03,920 Speaker 2: your Missus, fertil clinics can keep their errors secret. Second, 601 00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:08,560 Speaker 2: when patients do discover mistakes and hire lawyers like Adam, 602 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:12,319 Speaker 2: those cases rarely see the inside of a courtroom. They're 603 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:16,160 Speaker 2: settled quietly with non disclosure agreements that ensure that details 604 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:20,160 Speaker 2: never become public. The clinic writes a check, the patient 605 00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:23,000 Speaker 2: signs away their right to speak about what happened, and 606 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:27,560 Speaker 2: the error effectively disappears. No other patients will ever know, 607 00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:32,080 Speaker 2: no regulator will investigate. The clinic can keep advertising its 608 00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:34,440 Speaker 2: success rates as if nothing ever went wrong. 609 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:39,000 Speaker 4: So when you go into a fertility clinic in the 610 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:45,200 Speaker 4: United States. That lobby is beautiful. I mean it looks 611 00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:48,080 Speaker 4: like you are in a four seasons hotel and you 612 00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:53,239 Speaker 4: go behind the door that leads into a laboratory, and 613 00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:55,879 Speaker 4: all of a sudden, I mean, you've entered into an 614 00:35:56,040 --> 00:36:00,799 Speaker 4: entirely different space where there can be canister is knocked over, 615 00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:06,279 Speaker 4: clothes on the ground, it can be dirty, and you 616 00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:09,719 Speaker 4: go from the four seasons lobby to the back of 617 00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:10,360 Speaker 4: a restaurant. 618 00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:15,640 Speaker 2: Adam was speaking about IVF clinics generally there. He declined 619 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:20,080 Speaker 2: to say whether he had cases involving kind body. Adam 620 00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:23,000 Speaker 2: is one of the few voices clamoring for more oversight 621 00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:28,000 Speaker 2: in the fertility industry. When I reached out to doctors, embryologists, 622 00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:31,840 Speaker 2: and other experts in the field, some people agreed, But 623 00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:35,480 Speaker 2: I also found that many many people would approach the 624 00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:39,520 Speaker 2: subject of regulation with me at all because they were 625 00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:43,480 Speaker 2: afraid that even the mention of government oversight might tangle 626 00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:47,720 Speaker 2: the fertility industry up in abortion politics. They are afraid 627 00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:50,440 Speaker 2: of getting regulated out of existence. 628 00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:52,160 Speaker 5: Since Roe v. 629 00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:56,680 Speaker 2: Wade was overturned in twenty twenty two, Republicans have introduced 630 00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:00,360 Speaker 2: a wave of fetal personhood bills in state legislatures around 631 00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:05,440 Speaker 2: the country that would give fetuses and sometimes embryos, legal rights, 632 00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:10,880 Speaker 2: and in February of twenty twenty four, the Alabama Supreme 633 00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:14,239 Speaker 2: Court sided with couples who sued an IVF clinic after 634 00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:18,200 Speaker 2: some of their embryos were accidentally destroyed. They sued for 635 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:21,960 Speaker 2: wrongful death and negligence, and the court sided with them, 636 00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:25,200 Speaker 2: ruling that frozen embryos are unborn children. 637 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,840 Speaker 10: That embryo is in the eyes of many a person, 638 00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:34,640 Speaker 10: and so they believe that that embryo should have the 639 00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:38,000 Speaker 10: full rights of a living human being. And that may 640 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:41,239 Speaker 10: mean things like, gosh, you can't freeze them. And if 641 00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:44,040 Speaker 10: any harm was to come to that embryo, in some 642 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:46,400 Speaker 10: people's minds, that might be a kin to murder. 643 00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:51,080 Speaker 2: That's barb Koleura. She's been lobbying for fertility rights for 644 00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:55,880 Speaker 2: over twenty years. If embryos were people, like the Alabama 645 00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:59,960 Speaker 2: Supreme Court said, then handling them was suddenly a huge libel. 646 00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:05,239 Speaker 2: If something happened, it was tantamount to murder. In the 647 00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:09,520 Speaker 2: immediate aftermath, several clinics in the state paused offering IVF 648 00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:16,680 Speaker 2: treatment it was too risky. This ruling changed the political landscape. Overnight, 649 00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:22,160 Speaker 2: politicians who'd never mentioned fertility treatment suddenly had to take positions. 650 00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:28,400 Speaker 2: This newfound political attention came with consequences. Anti abortion groups 651 00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:33,080 Speaker 2: turned their attention to IVF, flooding Capitol Hill with policy proposals. 652 00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:39,040 Speaker 10: What we see is policy recommendations that are called health 653 00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:43,000 Speaker 10: and safety, and they're not about health and safety. They're 654 00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:47,080 Speaker 10: really about restricting access to IVF. And when we look 655 00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:49,839 Speaker 10: at those policy proposals, they don't look like they're good 656 00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:52,840 Speaker 10: for patients. Has nothing to do with making it safer, 657 00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:56,160 Speaker 10: has nothing to do with making it more accessible or 658 00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:57,680 Speaker 10: even improving the outcomes. 659 00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:02,520 Speaker 2: This is a tricky situation. Barb and many people in 660 00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:05,719 Speaker 2: the fertility field I've spoken to fear any new rules 661 00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:09,600 Speaker 2: around IVF because keep in mind, Barb has worked for 662 00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:13,160 Speaker 2: two decades to ensure access to IVF and to push 663 00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:16,920 Speaker 2: for insurance coverage. All of a sudden she's having to 664 00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:21,960 Speaker 2: fight anti abortion activists. But then, what about all I've 665 00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:25,839 Speaker 2: been reporting on in this series. What do we do 666 00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:30,560 Speaker 2: about the embryos that are lost, mislabeled, or accidentally destroyed, 667 00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:34,920 Speaker 2: or about women who feel pushed into unnecessary procedures, or 668 00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:38,640 Speaker 2: about something like Lindbergh's baby project. Is there a way 669 00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:42,359 Speaker 2: to introduce some protections for a patient who walks through 670 00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:43,080 Speaker 2: the door. 671 00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:49,120 Speaker 10: And so regulation could be a code word for restriction. 672 00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:52,759 Speaker 10: We have to look at every attempt at that, But 673 00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:57,000 Speaker 10: what I am focused on are those attempts where it 674 00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:00,880 Speaker 10: is to restrict and not help patients. 675 00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:05,040 Speaker 2: So that's the tension in a nutshell. In the current 676 00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:09,920 Speaker 2: political climate, any attempt at regulation risks being weaponized by 677 00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:14,440 Speaker 2: those who want to eliminate IVF entirely. The industry is 678 00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:15,360 Speaker 2: at a stalemate. 679 00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:22,279 Speaker 8: I would say that in healthcare behavior change happens for 680 00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:26,160 Speaker 8: three reasons. One it's regulation, so there's full they have 681 00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:30,920 Speaker 8: to Two it's financial incentives they make more if they 682 00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:34,640 Speaker 8: do it. Or three is patient demand. Patients demand it 683 00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:38,960 Speaker 8: and require it. There is no government regulation or self regulation. 684 00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:43,759 Speaker 8: There are no incentives to do it. If they spend 685 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:46,200 Speaker 8: money to upgrade, they are losing money, so there is 686 00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:51,400 Speaker 8: financial disincentive and patients don't know, so they are asking 687 00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:53,200 Speaker 8: about it and making decisions about it. 688 00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:57,720 Speaker 2: That's Lindsay Beck. She's a patient advocate and she's passionate 689 00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:01,000 Speaker 2: about this work. When she was told two she was 690 00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:04,280 Speaker 2: diagnosed with a rare tongue cancer. She had her eggs 691 00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:07,760 Speaker 2: frozen back in the nineties when egg freezing was rare. 692 00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:11,640 Speaker 2: It preserved her ability to have a family, and since 693 00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:15,800 Speaker 2: that experience, she's spent decades trying to navigate this tension 694 00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:20,120 Speaker 2: between access and safety standards in IBF for other families. 695 00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:27,640 Speaker 8: Women want reproductor of autonomy and investors want growth, but 696 00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:30,080 Speaker 8: then there are sometimes when it's misaligned. 697 00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:35,240 Speaker 2: She points to one easy fix, digital tracking of sperm, 698 00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:39,880 Speaker 2: eggs and embryos. She's also a firm believer in mandating 699 00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:41,520 Speaker 2: that clinics report errors. 700 00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:45,160 Speaker 8: Yes, no one wants them. No one wants from more 701 00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:48,400 Speaker 8: government reporting. No one wants to have to report errors. 702 00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:52,680 Speaker 8: No one wants patience to know these numbers because it's scary. 703 00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:57,680 Speaker 2: Lindsey is a bit of an outlier in the industry. 704 00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:01,040 Speaker 2: You don't often hear someone who is actively working in 705 00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:06,760 Speaker 2: fertility calling for change. The demand for fertility services isn't 706 00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:10,440 Speaker 2: slowing down. According to the latest data from the CDC, 707 00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:14,160 Speaker 2: the number of IVF cycles performed in the United States 708 00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:17,439 Speaker 2: has more than doubled over the past decade, with more 709 00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:21,960 Speaker 2: than four hundred thousand cycles performed annually, and that number 710 00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:27,480 Speaker 2: is expected to keep climbing. Meanwhile, private equity and venture 711 00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:31,080 Speaker 2: capital firms continue to pour money into the fertility sector. 712 00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:35,800 Speaker 2: Industry reports show that fertility startups raised over eight hundred 713 00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:39,319 Speaker 2: million dollars in funding in twenty twenty three alone, with 714 00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:44,960 Speaker 2: major chains being consolidated under private equity ownership. Today, more 715 00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:48,080 Speaker 2: than forty percent of IVF cycles in the United States 716 00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:51,359 Speaker 2: are performed at a clinic owned by private equity, and 717 00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:56,719 Speaker 2: that percentage keeps growing and for the time being, there 718 00:42:56,760 --> 00:43:07,800 Speaker 2: are no guardrails on the fertility industry. IVF Disrupted The 719 00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:11,840 Speaker 2: Kind Body Story is reported and hosted by me Jackie Devalos. 720 00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:15,680 Speaker 2: The series is produced by Sean Wen and Jilda Decarly, 721 00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:21,600 Speaker 2: editing by Caitlin Kenney, Jeff Grocott, and Joshua Brustein. Blake 722 00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:25,719 Speaker 2: Maples is our sound engineer and composer, fact checking by 723 00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:30,920 Speaker 2: Anaga Robbins. Bloomberg Senior Executive Editor for Technology is Tom Giles. 724 00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:34,640 Speaker 2: Our head of podcasting is Sage Bauman. You can reach 725 00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:39,320 Speaker 2: us at podcasts at Bloomberg dot net. IVF Disrupted is 726 00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:42,080 Speaker 2: a production of Bloomberg and iHeart Podcasts.