WEBVTT - Peter Wolf 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:12.640 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Search Podcast. 0:00:12.840 --> 0:00:15.520 My guest today is Peter Woolf, who's got a new 0:00:15.560 --> 0:00:20.400 book reading on the movie. Peter, why now, why finally 0:00:20.440 --> 0:00:21.160 run in memoir? 0:00:22.280 --> 0:00:25.280 Well, Bob, first of all, thank you for having me on. 0:00:25.960 --> 0:00:29.720 And I've you know, followed you heard about your newsletter 0:00:29.760 --> 0:00:35.960 for years, all the UH controversies that you've started and 0:00:36.120 --> 0:00:41.239 UH people have followed. So I am glad to be 0:00:41.440 --> 0:00:45.879 sharing some time with you and meeting you. But the 0:00:45.960 --> 0:00:51.879 reason for your question why now? What would happen was 0:00:51.920 --> 0:00:56.000 I would always be backstage or invited to a dinner 0:00:56.280 --> 0:00:58.800 or something, and you know, you'd have a glass or 0:00:58.800 --> 0:01:02.720 two and start telling worries and people would always say, Peter, 0:01:03.200 --> 0:01:07.039 you should write a book. And I was about to 0:01:08.400 --> 0:01:12.120 release the new CD. It was about eighty percent done. 0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:16.240 Now I thought, you know, if I released this now 0:01:17.840 --> 0:01:20.840 in about two weeks, it will be in the ether. 0:01:21.959 --> 0:01:26.960 And what could I do that might have some resonance 0:01:27.480 --> 0:01:33.959 and bring some exposure to maybe broaden my awareness of 0:01:34.040 --> 0:01:37.679 the solo work I've done. And the idea came, this 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:41.520 might be the right time where things are at right 0:01:41.560 --> 0:01:46.800 now to actually write the book. And so in designing 0:01:46.920 --> 0:01:50.080 that I decided, you know, there's a lot every musician 0:01:50.160 --> 0:01:52.680 seems to be writing a book, and you know a 0:01:52.720 --> 0:01:54.480 lot of them, not all of them, but a lot 0:01:54.520 --> 0:01:57.200 of them are that cookie cutter type where I was, 0:01:57.280 --> 0:01:59.279 you know, when I was born and blah blah blah blah, 0:01:59.360 --> 0:02:02.080 I start got my first guitar, and then when I 0:02:02.120 --> 0:02:05.240 saw either Elvis or depending on the age, the Beatles 0:02:05.240 --> 0:02:09.200 on Ed Sullivan, blah blah blah blah, and I joined 0:02:09.280 --> 0:02:11.560 my first band, and then it just goes on like that, 0:02:11.639 --> 0:02:16.720 which is okay if you're interested in that person. But 0:02:16.800 --> 0:02:22.360 there are a few musicians books that are musicians wrote 0:02:22.960 --> 0:02:26.200 that I found that were special, and I tried for 0:02:26.320 --> 0:02:34.440 myself to create a special style of book, and by 0:02:34.480 --> 0:02:38.920 that is I have each chapter that I wrote is 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:42.640 like a short story. It has the beginning, middle, and 0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:45.920 an end each chapter. So I think there's about thirty 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:48.600 something chapters in the book, and you can go from 0:02:48.600 --> 0:02:51.600 the first chapter or you can read the fourteenth chapter 0:02:51.800 --> 0:02:57.040 or the twenty seventh chapter. And they don't necessarily they 0:02:57.080 --> 0:03:01.360 connect time wise, because the early chapters start in a 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:05.280 time span, but each one is individual, so they're more 0:03:05.400 --> 0:03:08.840 like short stories. And so I guess that's the reason 0:03:08.840 --> 0:03:12.440 why I decided to spend two years. I called up 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:17.880 my great independent agent, Frank Riley, and said, Frank, I'm 0:03:17.919 --> 0:03:21.679 going to take a step back to hopefully take two 0:03:21.680 --> 0:03:29.160 steps forward. And he understood. And I was privileged to 0:03:29.200 --> 0:03:32.840 meet a book agent whose name was Andrew Wiley. And 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:37.080 Andrew Wiley in the book world is quite a notable figure. 0:03:37.800 --> 0:03:40.720 And as a book agent he handled people like Salomon 0:03:40.840 --> 0:03:44.000 Rushdie and Martin Amos. And he handles the Philip Ross 0:03:44.120 --> 0:03:49.640 estate and Saul Bellow's estate and Robert Lowell estate. So 0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:55.120 he was well known, came from Boston, and so it 0:03:55.360 --> 0:03:58.480 all seemed to align up together. 0:04:00.160 --> 0:04:03.560 Okay, have you achieved your goal? Are you happy with 0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:05.880 the results in terms of impact? 0:04:07.520 --> 0:04:12.560 Well, yes and no. Yes, I finished the book and 0:04:12.600 --> 0:04:17.080 that you know, it's sort of like one. Well, the 0:04:17.080 --> 0:04:19.880 people that I admire work on a recording or work 0:04:19.880 --> 0:04:22.200 on a project, and the first thing they want to 0:04:22.240 --> 0:04:26.600 do is artistically satisfy themselves, you know, and if they 0:04:26.680 --> 0:04:31.120 feel they achieve something that they're excited about, that's the 0:04:31.160 --> 0:04:35.200 first step. So yes, I feel I I did that. 0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:41.960 And again, I spent many years avoiding doing a book, 0:04:42.720 --> 0:04:51.360 and so that I achieved. And what happened, Bob, and 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:55.919 you might understand this more than most, is that I 0:04:56.080 --> 0:04:59.400 signed to Little Brown because they published some of the 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:03.480 books that I really love, Peter Gerlnick who's written some 0:05:03.520 --> 0:05:06.839 of the great music books, the great Elvis Presley books, 0:05:06.920 --> 0:05:10.680 Last Trained to Memphis, and Caroless Love and Nick Tosh, 0:05:10.920 --> 0:05:14.119 who was a great writer critic. He wrote his books 0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:17.440 for Little Brown, and Keith Richards and et cetera. Besides, 0:05:18.120 --> 0:05:21.760 you know, they were a Boston based publishing company and 0:05:21.800 --> 0:05:24.520 they had a lot of their stable had a lot 0:05:24.560 --> 0:05:27.200 of great writers in it. So I wanted to be 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:31.040 with Lil Brown, just like in the early days when 0:05:31.240 --> 0:05:34.400 I was starting with the Guiles Band, my dream was 0:05:34.400 --> 0:05:39.800 to be on Atlantic Records. And so once I got 0:05:39.800 --> 0:05:44.200 to Little Brown, they were very excited and I started writing, 0:05:44.320 --> 0:05:48.840 you know, the chapters and writing the outlines, and there 0:05:48.839 --> 0:05:52.359 were people there that had been there for you know, 0:05:52.480 --> 0:05:58.400 twenty five thirty years. And then what happened hashet which 0:05:58.440 --> 0:06:01.520 is the corporation kind of what happened in the music 0:06:01.600 --> 0:06:05.680 industry when universals started gobbling up all the different companies, 0:06:07.200 --> 0:06:11.599 all the people that I signed on to to be 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:16.960 with Little Brown were all fired, and so all of 0:06:16.960 --> 0:06:22.479 a sudden I went through I think four editors, and 0:06:23.080 --> 0:06:27.000 it was quite difficult because the people that were passionate 0:06:27.040 --> 0:06:33.440 about your project were no longer there. And so the 0:06:33.480 --> 0:06:36.000 book came out, and there's this thing that I was 0:06:36.080 --> 0:06:41.760 unaware of called a Kirkus review, and that's for publishers 0:06:42.160 --> 0:06:44.760 and bookstores and if you get a Circus review, but 0:06:44.800 --> 0:06:47.640 if you get a Kirkus review and a star, that's 0:06:47.760 --> 0:06:53.520 apparently a real good achievement. So we got that and 0:06:53.560 --> 0:06:58.440 then reviews started coming in, and in a very quick 0:06:58.480 --> 0:07:04.000 time the book ended up number five on the New 0:07:04.080 --> 0:07:07.240 York Times bestseller List, which to me was, you know, 0:07:09.200 --> 0:07:14.520 a great accomplishment. But then what happened is the company 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:18.880 ran out of books, and in book world, I think 0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:21.960 books are like printed now in the Far East or something, 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:26.440 and so it took a good long almost a month 0:07:26.800 --> 0:07:31.040 to maybe less, to get you know, books back in 0:07:31.160 --> 0:07:35.760 the big boxes and independent bookstores. So I was working 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:39.080 very hard on promoting. And so when you get people 0:07:39.120 --> 0:07:41.600 coming into the bookstore, and I would go into bookstores, 0:07:42.040 --> 0:07:47.400 there were no books or maybe one copy. And then 0:07:48.040 --> 0:07:54.280 there's always Amazon that has books but Amazon doesn't report 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:57.760 to people like the New York Times or the Boston 0:07:57.800 --> 0:08:04.040 Globe or the Washington Post. So there was a great 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:10.160 lag period. And not unlike a record when you're you 0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:14.200 know on you say, like getting on a Stephen Colbert 0:08:14.440 --> 0:08:20.119 or fallon or you know, doing beyond Howard Stern or 0:08:20.240 --> 0:08:23.480 your podcast, and you create a certain excitement. In the 0:08:23.520 --> 0:08:25.440 old days, people go in the record store if they 0:08:25.440 --> 0:08:30.080 didn't have the record, uh, you know they you know, 0:08:30.400 --> 0:08:33.880 you kind of lose that moment and then there are 0:08:33.880 --> 0:08:41.760 new records coming along. So I did achieve what I 0:08:41.800 --> 0:08:46.360 wanted to achieve, but now it's been very hard to 0:08:46.440 --> 0:08:50.040 kind of keep the book, the momentum of the book continuing. 0:08:51.160 --> 0:08:56.120 Okay, are there books in the stores now? Is the 0:08:56.160 --> 0:08:59.560 window passed or can you regain momentum. 0:09:01.240 --> 0:09:03.560 That's something that I'm still trying to figure out, Bob. 0:09:03.880 --> 0:09:08.120 There are books now in the stores. But what happens 0:09:08.440 --> 0:09:13.240 is that in the independent bookstores so many new books 0:09:13.360 --> 0:09:16.840 come out. There's different not unlike in the record period. 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:21.400 You have you know, your September release, early September release, 0:09:21.800 --> 0:09:24.400 then it's followed by end of September, and then comes 0:09:24.400 --> 0:09:27.760 your October release. So there's only a certain amount of 0:09:29.440 --> 0:09:32.800 premium space. Like in the old record stores, if you'd 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:36.520 walk into say like Tower or Sam Goodie and you'd 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:40.080 see the cutouts and the you know, the the advertisements 0:09:40.080 --> 0:09:43.640 for the recording, they last only for a certain time 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:50.040 until something new comes along. So I think losing momentum 0:09:50.960 --> 0:09:56.160 in the book world is far harder to regain than 0:09:56.240 --> 0:09:58.800 in the music world. 0:09:59.280 --> 0:10:02.880 Okay, in the music world, as you referenced earlier about 0:10:02.880 --> 0:10:05.120 putting a new album out and being in the ether 0:10:05.320 --> 0:10:08.840 very quickly, it's totally different now. It used to be 0:10:08.960 --> 0:10:11.880 some famous musician Elvis died, there was a limited amount 0:10:11.880 --> 0:10:14.600 of product in the stories immediately sold out and you 0:10:14.640 --> 0:10:17.560 couldn't we fulfill it for a couple of months, I 0:10:17.559 --> 0:10:20.480 mean a couple of weeks ultimately, whereas now everything is 0:10:20.520 --> 0:10:24.520 streaming an instant access. We have kindle in e books. 0:10:24.559 --> 0:10:27.600 In the book world, print publishers have done their best 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:30.760 to sort of kill that, but without making that any issue. 0:10:31.200 --> 0:10:36.320 How do you feel about the digital world in music 0:10:36.480 --> 0:10:39.319 and the changes in the music world of distribution. 0:10:41.320 --> 0:10:51.040 Well, that's a very complicated question because the uh, there's 0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:56.080 a lot of segments to it. They're not to sound 0:10:57.200 --> 0:11:02.560 generic or avoiding the question. But in reality, for me, 0:11:03.200 --> 0:11:12.280 there's many positives and there's many negatives. And the positives 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:19.160 is that it's available, it's there now someone like myself, 0:11:19.800 --> 0:11:24.760 who I wouldn't say I'm an audio file, but I 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:32.320 really enjoy hearing music at a certain quality, and the 0:11:32.400 --> 0:11:36.680 compressed music does disturb me. That happens a lot in digital. 0:11:37.720 --> 0:11:41.520 I have lots and lots of my records. I'm not 0:11:41.559 --> 0:11:45.160 a record collector, but I have thousands of LPs because 0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:48.280 you know, all through my life, I've never let my 0:11:48.320 --> 0:11:51.280 records dwindle. I have the first you know, Frankie Lyman 0:11:51.360 --> 0:11:53.960 and the Teenagers album. I have the first Elevis album. 0:11:53.960 --> 0:11:56.720 I have the first Chuck Berry album, first Buddy Holly 0:11:56.760 --> 0:11:59.120 album you know that I bought when I was eleven 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:04.520 years old. So I do listen to an awful lot 0:12:04.520 --> 0:12:09.080 of analog. But I also have, you know, hundreds and 0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:13.640 hundreds of CDs which I also enjoyed. So I'd say 0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:17.160 they answer the question, there's the negative. 0:12:17.840 --> 0:12:21.040 Okay, just going to one element at the point, the 0:12:21.040 --> 0:12:24.920 book has got a lot of interactions with legendary blues 0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:30.600 musicians and in the sixties, discovering these people was a 0:12:30.760 --> 0:12:33.839 scene unto itself, somewhere in the phone books. Some were 0:12:34.000 --> 0:12:39.000 working street jobs, et cetera, et cetera. Today literally everything 0:12:39.040 --> 0:12:41.280 is available like it used to be a record collector, 0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:43.480 you go and for years you look for record. Now 0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:47.080 I you go online. It's either available or not. These 0:12:47.320 --> 0:12:51.640 blues musicians in their music because now it is available 0:12:51.679 --> 0:12:54.840 to anybody who wants to hear it. Can the blues 0:12:54.880 --> 0:12:56.680 in these people come back? 0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:02.319 I don't know what you mean by comeback, Bob. 0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:06.280 Okay, let me be more specific. The roots of rock 0:13:06.320 --> 0:13:10.640 and roll are blues. In the present moment, a snapshot 0:13:10.679 --> 0:13:14.360 of the landscape of music is hip hop, pop in 0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:18.920 country rock and roll were the Gules band those roots, 0:13:19.280 --> 0:13:22.920 they're not primary in the market today. However, there have 0:13:22.960 --> 0:13:26.440 been bands that have been rediscovered the doors decades ago, 0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:32.240 led Zeppelin. Can we see a blues based revival the 0:13:32.440 --> 0:13:35.640 influence of this music or is it, like jazz more, 0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:36.720 a thing of the past. 0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:39.760 No. I don't think it's a thing of the past. 0:13:39.960 --> 0:13:45.640 And I think you know, Bob, there's many many bands 0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:49.680 that still searching out and learning about blues. I know 0:13:49.800 --> 0:13:52.240 in the book when I write about Muddy Waters and 0:13:52.280 --> 0:13:54.480 how I got to know money, and he would, you know, 0:13:54.559 --> 0:13:58.600 stay at my apartment, and we became, you know, quite 0:13:58.679 --> 0:14:01.960 good friends. They're young people come up to me and say, man, 0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:04.680 you know you brought Muddy Waters to life for me, 0:14:04.720 --> 0:14:08.040 and they're they're in bands that are just starting out now. 0:14:08.040 --> 0:14:12.400 It's true where I am based in Boston. Boston has 0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:18.800 a great folk heritage and also has a great roots heritage. 0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:23.120 I've never, uh, the term Americana seemed to have come out. 0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:26.360 I don't quite understand it, but I mean, I do 0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:29.480 understand it, but I don't understand how one gets defined 0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:33.920 in it. But Boston is, you know, because of the 0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:36.440 Club forty seven. It was the starting place for Joan 0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:40.560 Baez and many of the bluegrass bands. And it also 0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:48.080 had an amazing place a showcase for the great jazz artists. 0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:51.680 So Coltrane, Miles Davis would always love to come to Boston, 0:14:51.720 --> 0:14:54.680 and even people like Artie Sure would come to Boston. 0:14:54.680 --> 0:14:59.200 And you had Berkeley School of Music, you had several conservatories, 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:04.080 Conservatory of Music more for classical but different you know, 0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:09.040 uh horn players, classical horn players that all became jazz men. 0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:12.960 And so uh, I got to see in small clubs 0:15:13.480 --> 0:15:17.960 uh in Boston, Felonious Monk, Miles Davis, you know, Ama Jamal, 0:15:18.280 --> 0:15:20.320 you know some of the some of the greats. And 0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:23.640 in these same clubs later on it was Van Morrison 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:27.840 and uh John Lee Hooker and Muddy Waters and Otis Rush. 0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:33.640 So Uh, Boston was a rich place. Uh. And I 0:15:33.720 --> 0:15:38.840 think that if one is interested in a certain type 0:15:38.840 --> 0:15:43.000 of music, uh, they will discover it. And the digital 0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:46.760 world makes it a lot easier to discover it. You know, 0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:51.000 there's that famous story of you know, uh, Keith Richards 0:15:51.040 --> 0:15:54.000 and Mick Jagger knew each other as kids, but then 0:15:54.080 --> 0:15:57.600 one day either Mick or Keith I forget, we're carrying 0:15:57.600 --> 0:16:00.280 a record and they were on the train and one 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:04.160 spotted the best of Muddy Waters under one's arm and 0:16:04.160 --> 0:16:06.800 then goes, wow, man, you like that, and boom that 0:16:06.920 --> 0:16:12.640 rekindled their friendship because they were both blues fanatics. But 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:16.120 you and I both know that there was a time 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:21.520 when rock and roll in itself became outdated. And by 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:25.120 that I mean a rock band like the Jay Giles band, 0:16:25.400 --> 0:16:29.200 a rock band even like you know, so many rock 0:16:29.240 --> 0:16:35.240 bands were considered antiquated or dinosaurs, and then came this 0:16:35.400 --> 0:16:42.080 music called disco, and disco took over the entire Billboard 0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:45.640 Top forty basically, and there was no rock and roll 0:16:46.000 --> 0:16:50.520 on Billboard, So one could have said back then, is 0:16:50.600 --> 0:16:54.040 rock and roll dead? Is anyone interested in blues? Is 0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:57.840 anyone interested in country blues? Is anyone interested in you know, 0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:03.560 Carl Perkins, for instance, I was a late night DJ. 0:17:03.680 --> 0:17:10.320 I helped start a radio station, WBCNU, and it was 0:17:10.880 --> 0:17:14.760 a classical music station and an easy listening music station 0:17:15.440 --> 0:17:18.200 before it was bought out and turned into a rock 0:17:18.240 --> 0:17:20.560 and roll station. And it was one of the first 0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:29.040 important FM AO R ALBAM oriented radio stations and had 0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:32.360 a big, big following. There was one in San Francisco, 0:17:32.960 --> 0:17:35.440 down in New York an he w, but we kind 0:17:35.520 --> 0:17:40.280 of really hit the mark early on. And I remember 0:17:40.320 --> 0:17:42.920 coming in one day because I did the I had 0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:44.560 the wolf of Goop of Mama Tooth the show making 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:47.200 a niece Freezer bladlat Vithenian's got to come out, because 0:17:47.200 --> 0:17:49.640 that's a rock and roll is all about Yamagama Guma 0:17:49.680 --> 0:17:51.560 and I would do that from twelve o'clock at night 0:17:51.600 --> 0:17:55.080 to six in the morning. And I remember coming in 0:17:55.119 --> 0:17:59.560 one day for a meeting and they were carrying out 0:17:59.800 --> 0:18:04.600 all the great Sinatra records. They're all the great, even 0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:07.800 Roy Orbison's, and they were just dumping them. And I said, 0:18:07.800 --> 0:18:09.480 what are you doing with these? He goes, well, we're 0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:11.000 getting rid of them. I said, why. I said, we 0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:15.199 got to build, you know, room in the library for 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:18.119 Country Joe and the Fish and this and that, and 0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:24.520 you know, so there were to them. Uh, Carl Perkins 0:18:24.560 --> 0:18:29.080 was antiquated, you know, Roy Orbison was considered old time music. 0:18:29.640 --> 0:18:32.760 And the Beach Boys even you know, had a kind 0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:37.080 of some did, some didn't. So the point I'm making 0:18:37.520 --> 0:18:42.159 is that there has been so many transformations in music, 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:47.760 and disco was dominant. It was the biggest seller. You know, 0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:53.439 labels were hunting after disco artists and acts, and you 0:18:53.480 --> 0:18:56.520 know Atlantic with Chic and all of that, and Nile 0:18:56.720 --> 0:19:00.720 and you know, the the Phillies, Gamble and Huff and 0:19:01.080 --> 0:19:05.399 you know Columbia and it's just didn't it was, you know, 0:19:05.480 --> 0:19:08.960 even motown. And then Slide came along and was one 0:19:09.000 --> 0:19:12.479 of the few black artists on ao R radio, and uh, 0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:18.880 you know, slowly disco faded and rock and roll came back. 0:19:18.960 --> 0:19:22.600 Bob Seger came back, Joan Jet came back, Ario speed 0:19:22.600 --> 0:19:25.880 Wagon came back, and you know, the Guiles band came back. 0:19:26.119 --> 0:19:30.880 We didn't go away, but on the charts we found 0:19:31.240 --> 0:19:35.879 a new placement because uh disco finally had its uh 0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:40.399 you know time, and rock and roll prevailed again. So 0:19:40.520 --> 0:19:44.320 with blues artists, they're there. 0:19:44.359 --> 0:19:44.600 To me. 0:19:45.080 --> 0:19:49.800 I think of them as the classics, like Dickens or 0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:53.439 like even Faulkner, you know, the artists. You know, if 0:19:53.480 --> 0:19:57.600 you're interested in books, if you're interested in reading, you'd 0:19:57.640 --> 0:19:59.919 go to the classics. And if you're interested in new 0:20:00.400 --> 0:20:03.680 in a serious way, not, you know. And I have 0:20:03.840 --> 0:20:06.520 nothing against pop music, it's coming from a different place. 0:20:07.160 --> 0:20:10.879 But for the musicians that I tend to admire, and 0:20:10.960 --> 0:20:15.440 the musicians that tend to go the distance, they study 0:20:15.960 --> 0:20:21.080 the art. And even as a painter, one went back 0:20:21.359 --> 0:20:24.320 as far as the Renaissance painters, and then you went 0:20:24.359 --> 0:20:27.919 into Breugel and you you know da Vinci, and you 0:20:28.000 --> 0:20:31.120 went all the way up to Jiado Delacroix, and walk 0:20:31.160 --> 0:20:34.680 your way up into the Impressionist post Impressionists, then into 0:20:34.720 --> 0:20:38.520 Matisse and Picasso, Cubis, and you know, futurists, and it 0:20:38.680 --> 0:20:41.919 just you studied all that just as if you were 0:20:41.960 --> 0:20:45.800 a filmmaker. You don't just start making films. You have 0:20:45.880 --> 0:20:49.760 to study the history of the art. So I think 0:20:50.600 --> 0:20:55.440 it's a complicated question, and I'm probably don't stop me talking, 0:20:55.440 --> 0:20:58.200 as Sunny Boy Williamson said, don't stop me talking, Bob, 0:20:58.280 --> 0:20:59.399 I'll tell you everything I know. 0:21:08.320 --> 0:21:12.560 You've been living in Boston for decades. However, you grew 0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:15.520 up in New York and are quite New York savvy. 0:21:16.680 --> 0:21:22.119 Boston is a college town scene as somewhat provincial. Okay, 0:21:22.640 --> 0:21:25.280 why do you stay in Boston? And tell me the 0:21:25.320 --> 0:21:28.320 difference from your eyes of Boston and New York. 0:21:28.520 --> 0:21:30.920 The difference between Boston and New York. Well, first of all, 0:21:31.320 --> 0:21:36.800 I grew up in New York and I went I 0:21:36.800 --> 0:21:39.320 think what saved my life was I lived in the 0:21:39.359 --> 0:21:44.760 Bronx and the Bronx if anyone knows about well, Dion 0:21:44.920 --> 0:21:48.439 came from the Bronx, and Bobby Darren came from the Bronx. 0:21:48.440 --> 0:21:50.600 Stanley Kuber came from the Bronx. The Bronx is a 0:21:50.640 --> 0:21:53.760 special kind of place and to itself, and when I 0:21:53.800 --> 0:21:55.879 grew up it was kind of rough and tough. I 0:21:55.880 --> 0:22:00.240 grew up in a half Jewish, half Italian neighborhood. There 0:22:00.359 --> 0:22:04.879 was you know, territorial aspects to it. If you were 0:22:04.880 --> 0:22:10.679 in the wrong neighborhood, you got into trouble. And but 0:22:11.000 --> 0:22:17.439 it was very rich in characters. And my sister, who 0:22:17.560 --> 0:22:23.320 was older than me, danced frequently on a TV show 0:22:23.400 --> 0:22:29.760 called Alan Freed's Big Beat. And Alan Freed started these 0:22:30.920 --> 0:22:34.960 rock and roll shows called rock and Roll Calvalcade, and 0:22:35.000 --> 0:22:37.960 he had him at the Brooklyn Fox, of the Brooklyn Paramount, 0:22:38.400 --> 0:22:42.360 then at the in Manhattan, and also in the Bronx. 0:22:42.480 --> 0:22:46.239 It came up to the Bronx Paradise and so I 0:22:46.280 --> 0:22:50.080 would go and as a ten year old in a 0:22:50.200 --> 0:22:55.600 matter of several months, and in one concert I had 0:22:57.280 --> 0:23:00.359 as a ten year old who loved music and you know, 0:23:01.000 --> 0:23:04.919 had to buy certain records. In one concert, I saw 0:23:05.680 --> 0:23:10.720 Chuck Berry, Jerry Lee Lewis, Little Richard Screaming, Jay Hawkins, 0:23:10.960 --> 0:23:15.280 the Everly Brothers, Buddy Holly and the Crickets, the Chantelle's, 0:23:15.640 --> 0:23:22.399 the Charell's, Ed Townsend and joe Ane Campbell the Blonde Bombshell, 0:23:22.920 --> 0:23:26.199 and I know I'm forgetting one or two others, but 0:23:26.760 --> 0:23:32.040 it was just amazing and to see, you know, Chuck Berry, 0:23:32.040 --> 0:23:35.040 whose records. I had all of a sudden, they're live 0:23:35.119 --> 0:23:38.240 on stage doing the duck walk and Jerry Lee Lewis 0:23:38.320 --> 0:23:41.000 jumping on top of the piano, and you know, the 0:23:41.520 --> 0:23:46.080 Chantelle's singing maybe and you know, coming out of the 0:23:46.119 --> 0:23:48.680 coffin was screaming Jay. I mean, as a ten year 0:23:48.720 --> 0:23:52.080 old kid, I was baptized into rock and roll. I 0:23:52.160 --> 0:23:56.800 became a fanatic. And you know, seeing these characters were 0:23:56.960 --> 0:24:02.520 just amazing, and the talent and just young Frankie Lyman 0:24:03.080 --> 0:24:06.080 who was a young twelve year old but must have 0:24:06.680 --> 0:24:09.680 had the body of a young kid but was an 0:24:09.800 --> 0:24:13.679 aged The things he did musically, how he could have 0:24:14.080 --> 0:24:17.720 learned them at such an early age was astonishing. I 0:24:17.720 --> 0:24:22.639 mean people talk about Michael Jackson, who was a phenomenal talent, 0:24:23.240 --> 0:24:28.120 but Frankie, you know, as as great and maybe even 0:24:28.480 --> 0:24:31.840 greater as a young voice than even Michael's. But there's 0:24:31.880 --> 0:24:34.119 no sense to compare them. They were just both great. 0:24:34.800 --> 0:24:40.399 So having that experience and then you know, getting to 0:24:40.440 --> 0:24:44.440 see jazz artists at Birdland at the original Birdland early on, 0:24:45.200 --> 0:24:49.080 and even as important as that, and maybe even more 0:24:49.119 --> 0:24:52.960 important was growing up in New York when they had 0:24:53.040 --> 0:24:57.760 some of the most incredible DJs. You had Alan Freed, 0:24:58.359 --> 0:25:02.760 followed by Jock O Henderson who infected me with you know, 0:25:02.920 --> 0:25:06.680 things like hop pop ba doo, how do you do? 0:25:07.240 --> 0:25:10.600 This is the jock and his record Machene Man Hey, 0:25:10.840 --> 0:25:13.960 Dadda d how boo, and he would just go on 0:25:14.119 --> 0:25:17.320 like that and do all these rhymes and patter and 0:25:17.400 --> 0:25:21.800 played great music. And followed by him was the magnificent 0:25:21.880 --> 0:25:25.639 Montague and he would talk real low for lovers, and 0:25:25.640 --> 0:25:28.840 he'd play things like Sam Cook and just all these 0:25:29.080 --> 0:25:35.120 beautiful romantic soul ballads. And he was followed by Symphony 0:25:35.160 --> 0:25:38.520 Sid and Baba Do Babe, Babe Babe Bobba Doo doo, 0:25:38.560 --> 0:25:42.040 and Symphony Sid live from Birdland and Syphany Sid would 0:25:42.080 --> 0:25:45.119 play and interview some of the greatest jazz artists in 0:25:45.160 --> 0:25:48.120 the world. So as a ten year old eleven year old, 0:25:49.560 --> 0:25:53.000 I was absorbing, you know. At night, I you know, 0:25:53.359 --> 0:25:57.000 had right by my bed this big telefunk and radio 0:25:57.440 --> 0:26:00.560 I had really low. I was just you know bond 0:26:00.800 --> 0:26:03.679 I must have you know, fell asleep every night listening 0:26:03.720 --> 0:26:07.000 to it. And I would even on Thursdays and certain 0:26:07.080 --> 0:26:11.560 nights because of the difference between the AM radio band 0:26:12.359 --> 0:26:17.680 and the f M radio band AM would bounce and trowl. 0:26:18.480 --> 0:26:22.000 So on Thursday nights I would get things like w 0:26:22.480 --> 0:26:25.399 w V a wheeling West Virginia. And I always love 0:26:25.480 --> 0:26:28.480 to tell the story. Being a huge Evely Brothers fan, 0:26:29.440 --> 0:26:33.159 I was listening one night to these gals, you know, 0:26:33.240 --> 0:26:36.960 imitating the sounded like they were imitating the Eavely Brother's harmony, 0:26:37.760 --> 0:26:40.600 and you know, I wanted to know who, you know, 0:26:40.640 --> 0:26:45.639 these girls were that sounded like the Everly Brothers. And 0:26:45.720 --> 0:26:49.520 when the DJ, who was coffee drinking, DJ Lee Moore, 0:26:50.160 --> 0:26:55.360 he said, those were thus Stanley Brothers. I said, brothers. 0:26:55.720 --> 0:26:57.679 I said, that sounded like girls. And that was my 0:26:57.800 --> 0:27:05.040 first introduction to bluegrass, and so New York culturally was 0:27:05.119 --> 0:27:10.120 quite amazing. And then my high school was located in Harlem. 0:27:10.160 --> 0:27:11.760 I went to the High School of Music and Art 0:27:11.880 --> 0:27:17.040 because I was, you know, really since all I don't know, 0:27:17.119 --> 0:27:21.560 since three four, I was always interested in art and 0:27:21.600 --> 0:27:24.760 painting and drawing, and I went to the High School 0:27:24.800 --> 0:27:27.439 of Music and Art was located on one hundred and 0:27:27.440 --> 0:27:32.600 thirty fifth Street in Manhattan, and the Great Apollo Theater 0:27:33.560 --> 0:27:36.919 was on one hundred and twenty fifth Street. So every 0:27:36.920 --> 0:27:41.400 Wednesday I made a journey a Mecca down to the Apollo, 0:27:41.840 --> 0:27:46.240 where I saw a movie, a travelogue, the Amateur Show, 0:27:46.560 --> 0:27:51.760 and then the entire Apollo Show, where I saw people 0:27:51.840 --> 0:27:57.440 like Jackie Wilson, Billy Stewart, Eda, James Muddy Waters, BB King, 0:27:57.960 --> 0:28:02.080 you did just you know, the Moonglows, I mean just 0:28:03.280 --> 0:28:07.879 I can't even wreak James Brown, Wreatha Franklin or it 0:28:08.160 --> 0:28:12.120 just the list is. And so being a young kid 0:28:12.880 --> 0:28:18.600 seeing these amazing performers interact with an audience that was 0:28:19.000 --> 0:28:23.280 alive and connected with the artists like being in church. 0:28:23.480 --> 0:28:28.520 I mean, because I would say ninety nine percent of 0:28:28.600 --> 0:28:31.960 the artists that appeared at the Apollo all came out 0:28:31.960 --> 0:28:37.040 of the church background. So the artists were like the preachers, 0:28:37.480 --> 0:28:41.080 and the audience was the congregation, and so their job 0:28:41.200 --> 0:28:44.800 was to, you know, get that congregation worked up. And man, 0:28:45.000 --> 0:28:47.760 you know when you see the Olympics jumping around on stage, 0:28:48.120 --> 0:28:51.800 or Jackie Wilson, you know, doing his splits, and just 0:28:51.960 --> 0:28:57.680 the you know, talents, it it was unforgettable and stayed 0:28:57.680 --> 0:29:01.080 with me throughout my life. And so New York and 0:29:01.120 --> 0:29:06.640 then also in New York, there was this amazing place 0:29:06.680 --> 0:29:11.960 at the time Greenwich Village, which was like the Left 0:29:11.960 --> 0:29:17.920 Bank in Paris. There was no commercial neon signs. It 0:29:18.040 --> 0:29:23.560 was a gathering place for many musicians, folk musicians, jazz musicians. 0:29:23.840 --> 0:29:28.160 There was great folk clubs, great jazz clubs. People would 0:29:28.160 --> 0:29:31.360 play out in Washington Square Park on the weekends and 0:29:31.480 --> 0:29:34.320 from all over the city would bring their guitars. There 0:29:34.360 --> 0:29:37.760 was a place called the Folklore Center where people hung out. 0:29:37.960 --> 0:29:41.120 There was the gas Light, and there was you know, 0:29:41.280 --> 0:29:45.560 the Cafe of Go Go, and there was places like 0:29:45.600 --> 0:29:49.280 where bands I'm trying to think Leslie West's first band. 0:29:50.520 --> 0:29:53.400 I can't remember the night out where they appeared and 0:29:53.480 --> 0:29:56.200 where the rascals and all these different people. So New 0:29:56.280 --> 0:30:02.760 York was an incredibly cultural place. But Boston, being a 0:30:02.840 --> 0:30:06.520 guy that didn't finish high school, I spent a good 0:30:06.560 --> 0:30:11.480 year hitchhiking around the country seeing my friends at college, 0:30:11.600 --> 0:30:15.240 pretending I was a college an art student, because in 0:30:15.280 --> 0:30:17.440 those days, if you look like a student, you walked 0:30:17.440 --> 0:30:20.520 around at university. There was no ideas there, you know, 0:30:20.560 --> 0:30:23.000 there's just you know, they just assumed you were a student. 0:30:23.520 --> 0:30:27.840 So I spent a good deal of time traveling from 0:30:27.880 --> 0:30:31.720 college to college. But Boston had so many colleges, so 0:30:31.760 --> 0:30:34.040 I ended up attending. I was a student at BU, 0:30:34.440 --> 0:30:36.800 I was a student at Harvard, and then I was 0:30:36.840 --> 0:30:39.760 a student at Brand. I was just pretending so I 0:30:39.760 --> 0:30:42.640 could use their art supplies and you know, sleep in 0:30:42.640 --> 0:30:49.960 the student dorm or outside. And then eventually I was 0:30:50.000 --> 0:30:52.880 accepted to an art school in Boston. I got a 0:30:52.920 --> 0:30:56.840 scholarship to the Boston Museum School of Fine Arts, which 0:30:57.520 --> 0:31:04.560 was quite an incredible, very conservative school where it was 0:31:04.680 --> 0:31:08.080 six days a week. We started at eight thirty in 0:31:08.080 --> 0:31:10.760 the morning and sometimes went to five o'clock at night. 0:31:11.520 --> 0:31:15.080 And they had the same program that they the same 0:31:16.800 --> 0:31:19.960 technique and program that artists were taught in the late, 0:31:20.240 --> 0:31:24.280 you know, at the end of the nineteenth century. So 0:31:24.360 --> 0:31:29.800 we had to study perspective, anatomy, sculpting, how to make 0:31:29.840 --> 0:31:32.880 our own paints, how to just saw our own canvases, 0:31:33.200 --> 0:31:38.720 all the traditional aspects of painting. And once I was 0:31:38.760 --> 0:31:47.080 there and became engulfed in that world, I also somehow 0:31:47.560 --> 0:31:51.360 on one night, the art students were performing at this 0:31:51.560 --> 0:31:56.520 art loft, and that's how I got into becoming a 0:31:56.560 --> 0:32:00.280 performer from that one night and so from that pointing on, 0:32:02.320 --> 0:32:07.640 Boston remained home because of school and then the bands 0:32:07.680 --> 0:32:12.960 that I became involved with, and Boston was I think 0:32:13.040 --> 0:32:18.120 artistically a healthier place because there were so many colleges 0:32:18.520 --> 0:32:23.160 and so many clubs and so many opportunities for a musician, 0:32:23.920 --> 0:32:30.040 and as an artist, you didn't have the severe competition 0:32:31.280 --> 0:32:34.440 that New York had, So Boston seemed to be a 0:32:34.480 --> 0:32:38.880 more comfortable place to live, cheaper place to live. You know, 0:32:39.920 --> 0:32:42.479 I was living in Harvard Square for next to nothing, 0:32:43.000 --> 0:32:50.440 and so it just at that time was a healthier 0:32:50.560 --> 0:32:54.480 environment for me to survive and artistically. 0:32:55.160 --> 0:32:58.600 Okay, In the book, you talk about signing to Atlantic 0:32:58.680 --> 0:33:02.600 Records without an URN and putting out all these records 0:33:02.600 --> 0:33:06.120 and not making any money. A few things there. You 0:33:06.240 --> 0:33:08.800 do have a hit single and seventy three Give it 0:33:08.840 --> 0:33:13.560 to Me. You say that Atlantic takes half of the publishing. 0:33:14.320 --> 0:33:18.560 You say that you hire d he Anthony as your manager, 0:33:19.520 --> 0:33:24.200 so d never renegotiated. You really never made any money 0:33:24.200 --> 0:33:27.000 from Atlantic, and Atlantic says they've wiped the books clean 0:33:27.040 --> 0:33:29.480 and they're starting to pay from dollar one. Give me 0:33:29.520 --> 0:33:30.640 your assessment here. 0:33:32.320 --> 0:33:37.000 Well, Uh, I was sort of representing the band. You 0:33:37.000 --> 0:33:39.840 could say I was managing the Jay Giles band. Uh 0:33:40.200 --> 0:33:44.800 and uh a funny story if I nate, because someone 0:33:45.480 --> 0:33:50.360 who I think deserves the place on your podcast is 0:33:50.360 --> 0:33:53.480 a fellow by the name of Mario Medeas known in 0:33:53.520 --> 0:33:57.800 the music industry as the Big M. May I tell 0:33:57.840 --> 0:33:59.920 a little funny story about the Big m we have. 0:34:01.200 --> 0:34:05.400 The Big Am was he worked, was in the Air Force. 0:34:06.400 --> 0:34:10.840 He was came from Mississippi. Uh. He moved to Chicago 0:34:11.120 --> 0:34:14.400 with his father. Big Am was you know, this young 0:34:14.640 --> 0:34:19.080 black you know, lover of music. His father loved blues, 0:34:19.160 --> 0:34:22.480 became very close with Muddy Waters. And his father, as 0:34:22.480 --> 0:34:25.400 the Big Am would say, was a gambler, and he 0:34:25.440 --> 0:34:29.359 would have played craps and start card games and all 0:34:29.400 --> 0:34:32.160 the great blues artists would be part of his card games. 0:34:32.600 --> 0:34:34.919 And so at an early age, the Big Am got 0:34:34.920 --> 0:34:39.320 to hear and see Muddy Waters, Hallan Wolfs Sonny Boy Williamson, 0:34:39.360 --> 0:34:42.560 Little Walter and became emphatic. And then when he was 0:34:42.600 --> 0:34:47.360 in the Air Force, he got so into Miles Davis 0:34:47.400 --> 0:34:51.600 and especially John Coltrane. And he was a photographer for 0:34:51.680 --> 0:34:54.520 the Air Force too, and he started taking pictures for 0:34:55.320 --> 0:34:58.759 an English magazine that was the equivalent I can't think 0:34:58.760 --> 0:35:02.000 of the name right now, but the English equivalent of Downbeat, 0:35:02.600 --> 0:35:04.759 and when he got out of the Air Force, he 0:35:04.800 --> 0:35:10.200 would hang out at the clubs and especially go every 0:35:10.280 --> 0:35:13.120 night went to see Miles Davis. And there was this 0:35:13.239 --> 0:35:18.920 very attractive Swedish woman that Mario became friends with because 0:35:18.960 --> 0:35:22.040 they both loved the music. And Mario was working as 0:35:22.080 --> 0:35:29.520 a bookkeeper in a meatpacking place and she said to Mario, 0:35:29.800 --> 0:35:34.000 you know, I work at this company, Atlantic Records. Atlantic Records, 0:35:33.760 --> 0:35:37.879 that's where drawn Coltrane's on. Are you kidding me? He said, yeah, 0:35:37.920 --> 0:35:40.440 I can get you a job there, Mario, he said, 0:35:40.680 --> 0:35:43.520 he said, I don't care how much they pay. If 0:35:43.560 --> 0:35:47.320 I can get three records, I'm in. And so Mario 0:35:47.440 --> 0:35:52.839 becomes the bookkeeper in the bookkeeping department at Atlantic Records. Now, 0:35:52.880 --> 0:35:56.600 Mario is this, you know, black fellow that's working in Atlantic. 0:35:56.680 --> 0:36:00.279 And at that point, Jerry Wexler had all these great 0:36:00.800 --> 0:36:04.760 you know, Wilson Picket, Joe text, Reefa Franklin, Don Kove, 0:36:05.040 --> 0:36:09.560 you know, all these incredible blues artists, and Mario was 0:36:09.640 --> 0:36:13.880 signing all the checks, even amite checks, Jerry Wexler's checks, 0:36:14.320 --> 0:36:18.799 all the checks uh for the entire Atlantic company and 0:36:18.840 --> 0:36:23.520 their artists. But when the artists would come in Mario 0:36:23.560 --> 0:36:26.000 would say to somebody like Salomon Burke with the picket, 0:36:27.000 --> 0:36:31.160 you know, man, these guys are not really paying you 0:36:31.200 --> 0:36:34.440 as much as they should be because blah blah blah blah, 0:36:34.520 --> 0:36:37.320 and they're charging you for breakage and blah blah blah blah. 0:36:37.480 --> 0:36:40.560 And then your European sales abouz is not showing up here, 0:36:40.800 --> 0:36:43.640 so you know, actually they owe you X thousands of 0:36:43.719 --> 0:36:48.239 more dollars than blah blah blah. Well, Wilson Picket would 0:36:48.239 --> 0:36:52.520 hear this and he'd go down, Jarrett, I gotta tell 0:36:52.560 --> 0:36:55.880 you, you know, man, you guys are cheating me out of 0:36:55.960 --> 0:36:59.160 my you know, European royalties, that this and that that 0:36:59.200 --> 0:37:02.520 you're charging me breakage. Your albums don't break they're not 0:37:02.640 --> 0:37:05.799 seventy eighth blah blah blah blah blah blah. Well, then 0:37:05.840 --> 0:37:08.640 would come Salomon Burke, and then would come this artist 0:37:08.719 --> 0:37:12.200 and that artist, Joe Tech, and finally, you know, what's 0:37:12.520 --> 0:37:15.279 where the hell are these guys getting this information from. 0:37:15.480 --> 0:37:19.520 So he has a meeting with Ahmed and they uh 0:37:20.440 --> 0:37:24.200 find out that it's this guy up and bookkeeping on 0:37:24.239 --> 0:37:28.200 the upper floor. This Mario Medeaz is telling his artist 0:37:28.280 --> 0:37:32.400 that he admires. You know what they're faird is. So 0:37:32.440 --> 0:37:35.800 everybody loved Mario and they didn't want to fire Mario 0:37:36.160 --> 0:37:40.359 because people would be upset. So they brought Mario down 0:37:40.400 --> 0:37:43.880 into Ahmed's office with Jerry and they said, you know, 0:37:43.960 --> 0:37:47.799 Amici didn't maybe you know, uh we love it, but 0:37:47.920 --> 0:37:50.520 see you know we got to take you out of accounting. 0:37:51.200 --> 0:37:55.640 Uh so you know where else in the company. Uh 0:37:55.760 --> 0:37:58.880 do you think he could be of you know, valuable? 0:37:59.560 --> 0:38:03.200 And Mario said, hey, man, let me be a promotion man. 0:38:03.800 --> 0:38:05.480 Let me go out with the band. Let me go 0:38:05.520 --> 0:38:07.600 out with the young rock band and they don't know 0:38:07.760 --> 0:38:10.239 shit from Shaniola. Let me take them all around the comming. 0:38:10.320 --> 0:38:12.680 I'll walk to the radio station with him. Man, I'll 0:38:12.680 --> 0:38:16.200 get him played. Man. And this was you know, music 0:38:16.239 --> 0:38:19.880 to Amit's and Jerry's ears and plus a lot of 0:38:19.880 --> 0:38:22.239 the bands that he was talking about were bands like 0:38:23.120 --> 0:38:28.800 Rolling Stones, led Zeppelin, who were blues lovers that really 0:38:29.160 --> 0:38:34.560 never came into contact with many of the black blues artists. 0:38:34.719 --> 0:38:37.480 And so here was Mario that was, you know, friendly 0:38:37.560 --> 0:38:40.120 with Muddy, friendly with Hell and Wolf Freddie and friendly 0:38:40.160 --> 0:38:42.600 with Otis reading. You know, we'd write checks out with 0:38:42.719 --> 0:38:47.600 Otis tells a great story of how Otis wanted something 0:38:47.640 --> 0:38:50.640 like twenty five thousand dollars in cash so he can 0:38:50.680 --> 0:38:53.359 go up to the Apollo and flash all this money 0:38:53.360 --> 0:38:56.319 around and pay his band and cash to show all 0:38:56.320 --> 0:38:58.759 the other bands that he's rolling in the dough. But 0:38:58.840 --> 0:39:01.680 the bank wouldn't cash check. Mario had to go down 0:39:01.719 --> 0:39:04.879 to certify that yes, this this you know, young guy 0:39:05.040 --> 0:39:08.200 is Otis reading, it's his money, et cetera. So Mario 0:39:08.360 --> 0:39:12.960 becomes beloved, and he's uh taking artists all around the country. 0:39:13.920 --> 0:39:17.640 And there's this new artist called Doctor John who's coming 0:39:17.680 --> 0:39:20.920 out with this album called Greegree, and he's taking Doctor 0:39:21.000 --> 0:39:24.200 John up to Boston to w b C and the 0:39:24.320 --> 0:39:27.160 radio station where I was working, and he was taking 0:39:27.200 --> 0:39:30.520 him to the Boston tea party, which was the equivalent 0:39:30.680 --> 0:39:35.760 of the Filmore in New York. It was Boston's Fillmore 0:39:36.360 --> 0:39:40.040 equivalent or you know, uh the Agora or you know 0:39:40.200 --> 0:39:47.280 Philly Larry Maggott had And so he heard these blues, 0:39:47.600 --> 0:39:52.600 this blue stuff, and uh, Mary said, man, who are 0:39:52.640 --> 0:39:55.480 these brothers? And I came into the dress room. He 0:39:55.680 --> 0:39:58.200 asked me, who are those guys out there playing the blues? 0:39:58.239 --> 0:40:02.160 I said that was us, you guys. He said, Holy 0:40:02.280 --> 0:40:04.840 damn man. He said, what label you guys on? So 0:40:04.840 --> 0:40:07.759 we're not on any label. You gotta be shitting me. 0:40:08.520 --> 0:40:11.160 Hold on, and he calls up Jerry. Wesley said, Jerry, 0:40:11.680 --> 0:40:13.799 I got these guys here. Man, they're going to be hot. 0:40:13.840 --> 0:40:16.080 They're hot on the pistol. Man. They places this Chicago 0:40:16.080 --> 0:40:16.560 blue shit. 0:40:17.040 --> 0:40:17.200 Man. 0:40:17.440 --> 0:40:21.640 I heard him. I thought it was like a blues 0:40:21.680 --> 0:40:24.680 band from Chicago. You got to sign these guys. So 0:40:24.840 --> 0:40:28.120 Jerry calls up a fellow that was big writer and 0:40:28.239 --> 0:40:32.480 Rolling Stone and also producing Livingston Taylor and some albums 0:40:32.520 --> 0:40:35.960 for Atlantic, and his name was John Landau. And he 0:40:36.040 --> 0:40:38.880 calls up John and says, John, you know about this band, 0:40:38.920 --> 0:40:41.680 that Jay Giles band. And John said yeah, Peter Wolf's 0:40:41.680 --> 0:40:45.200 a really good friend of mine. And three days later, 0:40:45.520 --> 0:40:49.279 John Landau and I are sitting in the office of 0:40:49.360 --> 0:40:55.360 Jerry Wexler, no lawyer, and you know, Jerry's talking to us. 0:40:55.360 --> 0:40:57.480 Never heard us, but you know, bound the word of 0:40:57.560 --> 0:41:01.760 Landau and uh, I guess made so some calls around Boston. 0:41:03.080 --> 0:41:07.840 He said, I'd like to sign you to Atgo Records. 0:41:08.239 --> 0:41:11.640 I said at Go, I said, man, Jerry, we got 0:41:11.680 --> 0:41:13.879 to be on Atlantic, and so I don't know if 0:41:13.880 --> 0:41:16.040 I could do that. So we called in a lawyer 0:41:16.480 --> 0:41:18.600 and the lawyer said, Jerry, you know, this was all 0:41:18.640 --> 0:41:20.560 a big bluff. I don't think we can put him 0:41:20.560 --> 0:41:23.480 on Atlantic. You know we we can't, you know, And 0:41:23.560 --> 0:41:25.239 Jerry said, please see what you can do. 0:41:25.360 --> 0:41:25.680 Please. 0:41:25.920 --> 0:41:30.480 Anyway, they handed us a contract that was very, to 0:41:30.560 --> 0:41:35.240 be polite, very antiquated, and you know, we were a 0:41:35.320 --> 0:41:43.160 band of five six guys and it had limited you know, 0:41:43.400 --> 0:41:46.520 they were doing, you know, charging us for breakage. You 0:41:46.560 --> 0:41:49.520 know that came from the days of seventy eights, you know, 0:41:49.560 --> 0:41:52.400 when you know there was a certain amount of shipping 0:41:52.440 --> 0:41:55.880 seventy eights that would break and so, uh you the 0:41:55.960 --> 0:42:02.239 record company it was it was very antiquated, and the 0:42:02.280 --> 0:42:06.000 band was simon Atlantic, and we started touring. And in 0:42:06.040 --> 0:42:12.000 those years it was touring, and I'm talking about nineteen seventy. 0:42:13.040 --> 0:42:17.040 In nineteen seventy, rock and roll touring was not unlike vaudeville, 0:42:17.280 --> 0:42:20.839 where you had an opening act, a middle act, and 0:42:20.840 --> 0:42:24.600 then the headliner. And like in vaudeville, you'd had you know, 0:42:24.680 --> 0:42:27.200 five or six acts or seven or eight acts, and 0:42:27.239 --> 0:42:30.759 then you'd have the headliner closing the show and it 0:42:30.760 --> 0:42:34.120 would travel from city city and so we were the 0:42:34.160 --> 0:42:38.880 opening act for almost two years, and I was able 0:42:38.920 --> 0:42:41.800 to get the band signed to I went down and 0:42:41.840 --> 0:42:44.960 had a meeting with a gentleman by the name of 0:42:45.000 --> 0:42:50.839 Frank Barcelona, who was the who started Premier Talent. And 0:42:50.880 --> 0:42:54.759 I can go on for an hour about the importance 0:42:54.800 --> 0:42:58.799 of Premier Talent, but it was the most important rock 0:42:58.880 --> 0:43:02.920 agency at the time and had probably the most definitive 0:43:03.080 --> 0:43:08.279 rock artists signed to its roster. And Frank started with 0:43:08.400 --> 0:43:11.520 Brian Epstein and then signed Jimmy Hendrix, and he had 0:43:11.520 --> 0:43:16.319 the Who and led Zeppelin and Springsteen and U two 0:43:16.560 --> 0:43:20.560 and you know, uh, just you know, everybody in all 0:43:20.600 --> 0:43:26.359 the eras, and uh, after our second record, we kind 0:43:26.400 --> 0:43:31.440 of felt that we're still staying in the first slot. 0:43:31.960 --> 0:43:34.680 And we were traveling all around the country opening up 0:43:34.680 --> 0:43:38.400 for bands like Black Sabbath, and you know, just Black 0:43:38.400 --> 0:43:41.080 Sabbath and Jay Giles had nothing in common, but there 0:43:41.120 --> 0:43:44.240 we were. And I remember talking with Frank and Frank 0:43:44.360 --> 0:43:48.400 suggested we need to get a manager and maybe that 0:43:48.440 --> 0:43:52.080 would help, a real formal manager. And Frank at that 0:43:52.200 --> 0:43:55.000 time was close with a gentleman by the name of 0:43:55.080 --> 0:43:59.239 De Anthony, and d Anthony was managing humble Pie that 0:43:59.360 --> 0:44:02.920 was doing very well, Spooky Tooth. He had just managed 0:44:03.520 --> 0:44:07.120 Joe Cocker with the Holy On Russell Mad Dogs and Englishman, 0:44:07.960 --> 0:44:11.840 and D came out of the you know, the world 0:44:11.880 --> 0:44:15.960 of Tony Bennett in the Copa Cabana and loved the 0:44:16.040 --> 0:44:22.719 music world, and he became our manager. And in a 0:44:22.800 --> 0:44:29.400 long winded answer to this day, your question about why 0:44:29.440 --> 0:44:34.440 he never renegotiated the Atlantic contract is beyond me. Nor 0:44:34.480 --> 0:44:39.200 did we ever say, hey, D, you know, can you 0:44:39.239 --> 0:44:44.120 renegotiate the contract? Because that's usually the first thing a 0:44:44.239 --> 0:44:48.480 manager does. It sits down with the company and says, listen, 0:44:49.160 --> 0:44:52.440 I'm on board. Now you know I got this band, 0:44:52.520 --> 0:44:56.120 that band, that band. I'm tight with Frank Barcelona. There's 0:44:56.160 --> 0:44:59.960 no bullshitting around here. This band needs to get paid 0:45:00.040 --> 0:45:03.200 aid fairly. Never happened. 0:45:10.840 --> 0:45:15.680 This late date. A, do you own the publishing for 0:45:15.719 --> 0:45:18.399 those songs? And B do you ever get a check 0:45:18.480 --> 0:45:20.480 for the recordings of Atlantic. 0:45:21.760 --> 0:45:26.360 In this late They Noah, do not own the songs. Uh, 0:45:26.600 --> 0:45:28.920 this late they you know the checks that you know 0:45:29.000 --> 0:45:32.439 do come in. Uh, but let me put it this way, 0:45:32.880 --> 0:45:35.879 they're not checks that you're going to take a pleasurable 0:45:35.920 --> 0:45:41.480 trip on it's you know, the monies are We did not. 0:45:42.760 --> 0:45:45.040 We were in debt. The guys band was in debt 0:45:45.160 --> 0:45:47.400 from most of our time and we get out of 0:45:47.400 --> 0:45:50.200 it and we would work with you know, trucking companies 0:45:50.239 --> 0:45:53.040 and you know beg them to hold off sending us 0:45:53.080 --> 0:45:55.680 the bills for three or four months. I remember the 0:45:55.760 --> 0:45:58.759 Claire Brothers Sound Company when they first started. You know, 0:45:58.840 --> 0:46:01.400 they didn't charge us for a long period of time, 0:46:01.480 --> 0:46:04.640 and you know we repaid them. We did not actually 0:46:04.680 --> 0:46:10.000 start being you know comfortable we're being able to pay 0:46:10.120 --> 0:46:12.280 you know, guys would have to take loans and stuff. 0:46:12.480 --> 0:46:15.520 We were not comfortable until we actually were signed with 0:46:15.640 --> 0:46:18.440 a new label and that was EMI America. And then 0:46:18.480 --> 0:46:23.200 the book I explained how that occurrence happened and it 0:46:23.239 --> 0:46:27.759 was quite a you know story of chance how that 0:46:27.800 --> 0:46:32.600 all came to be. So it wasn't until really EMI 0:46:32.640 --> 0:46:37.279 and we had three albums, Sanctuary, Love Stinks and then 0:46:37.360 --> 0:46:40.560 Freeze Frame when we really started to be, you know, 0:46:41.080 --> 0:46:44.239 have the opportunity in front of us to really be 0:46:44.320 --> 0:46:48.720 able to you know pack away some you know monies 0:46:48.719 --> 0:46:50.360 for those rainy days. 0:46:50.800 --> 0:46:52.120 So what are you living on today? 0:46:54.120 --> 0:46:59.560 Peanut butter jelly, some cantuna fish and no, I've you know, 0:47:01.560 --> 0:47:06.759 through the EMI stuff. There's you know in there. We 0:47:07.080 --> 0:47:15.600 kept out publishing and so one uh, you know lives okay, 0:47:15.680 --> 0:47:19.160 but not you know, people always think, oh man, you 0:47:19.200 --> 0:47:21.880 know they know the Jay Giles band, and you mentioned 0:47:21.920 --> 0:47:24.520 the song give It to Me, Well, give It to 0:47:24.560 --> 0:47:29.239 Me was on its way to becoming a hit. And 0:47:29.280 --> 0:47:34.400 then I forget the f C C And then I 0:47:34.440 --> 0:47:38.120 believe it was It wasn't Al Gore's wife, but it 0:47:38.160 --> 0:47:47.400 was the very conservative woman that was lobbying Congress that 0:47:47.600 --> 0:47:53.239 lyrics and rock were becoming very lewde And there was 0:47:53.239 --> 0:47:57.920 a McCartney song, my Girl, she does It? What was 0:47:58.160 --> 0:47:58.680 helped me out? 0:47:59.239 --> 0:48:01.200 My girl does a good Yeah, yeah. 0:48:01.000 --> 0:48:03.839 It does it good. Well, you know that became a 0:48:03.960 --> 0:48:07.960 huge controversy. But you couldn't mess so much with Paul McCartney, 0:48:08.280 --> 0:48:11.040 but you could mess with the Jay Giles band. And 0:48:11.080 --> 0:48:13.799 then you know, we were getting up there, getting up there, 0:48:13.800 --> 0:48:17.880 and then boom there was a band on AM radio. 0:48:18.400 --> 0:48:21.040 And I think I don't know if Abrams or whoever 0:48:21.239 --> 0:48:24.560 was in charge of you know, who was a big 0:48:24.800 --> 0:48:27.360 you know name and you had all the guys like 0:48:28.000 --> 0:48:32.279 this Scipio, and you know, all the different helped me 0:48:32.320 --> 0:48:33.800 out here well. 0:48:33.600 --> 0:48:36.080 Tip sheets, consultants, Indie promo. 0:48:36.040 --> 0:48:41.400 All the all the consultants. Everybody put a freeze, no 0:48:41.520 --> 0:48:43.520 puns intended on give it to me, and it just 0:48:43.600 --> 0:48:45.919 stopped in its tracks, but it was on its way. 0:48:46.000 --> 0:48:50.239 It was like next to Paul Simon or Montego Bay. 0:48:50.560 --> 0:48:52.880 It was one of the few reggae songs at that time. 0:48:53.200 --> 0:48:55.480 You know, most people didn't know what reggae was or 0:48:55.600 --> 0:49:00.920 heard it. Paul Simon had Mother's Child, Mother and Child 0:49:00.920 --> 0:49:03.919 Reunion that had a reggae feel to it. But other 0:49:03.960 --> 0:49:07.120 than that, reggae was pretty unknown to most people. And 0:49:07.160 --> 0:49:09.920 this was before the Heart that they come came out 0:49:09.960 --> 0:49:10.719 and things like that. 0:49:12.200 --> 0:49:18.680 Okay, d Anthony, you tell some interesting stories about a 0:49:18.800 --> 0:49:23.520 rock festival in Pennsylvania. At this late date, the reputation 0:49:23.680 --> 0:49:29.520 of d Anthony is connected about the money first making 0:49:29.600 --> 0:49:31.719 Joe Cocker go on the road with mad dogs and 0:49:31.760 --> 0:49:34.360 english men and a cruk. 0:49:34.960 --> 0:49:41.239 What was your experience, Well, the big m Mario was 0:49:41.360 --> 0:49:44.840 riding in a car once and me indeed, and you know, 0:49:44.920 --> 0:49:47.319 d s it to me. You know, Mario let me 0:49:47.360 --> 0:49:51.040 tell you about management. The first job. There's three jobs 0:49:51.280 --> 0:49:55.000 that a manager has to do. Maaris was that he 0:49:55.040 --> 0:49:58.799 goes one, get the money. Norrisaid, what's number two? He said, 0:49:58.920 --> 0:50:02.080 get the money? He said, so I can think I 0:50:02.080 --> 0:50:04.840 got number three. He said, you gotta your smart Mario, 0:50:05.120 --> 0:50:10.719 get the money. And that was the's philosophy. D was 0:50:10.719 --> 0:50:15.400 from the Bronx. Uh, I'm from the Bronx. D was, 0:50:15.560 --> 0:50:20.320 you know, an Italian grew up right near the neighborhood 0:50:20.320 --> 0:50:26.160 I grew up. We uh knew similar places. Uh uh 0:50:26.600 --> 0:50:32.640 similar restaurants. Uh. And when I met D, uh we 0:50:32.920 --> 0:50:39.320 just talked Bronx to Bronx and I negotiated a handshake 0:50:39.440 --> 0:50:43.200 deal with D. And we never had a contract. We 0:50:43.280 --> 0:50:46.480 had a handshake deal. And I said to D and 0:50:46.560 --> 0:50:52.239 somehow I bought. I said, look, let's get started, and 0:50:52.760 --> 0:50:56.600 I'm representing the band. I don't know. You know, you 0:50:56.640 --> 0:50:59.640 can come and have meetings and you know, we're kind 0:50:59.680 --> 0:51:03.440 of like democratic band. And but look, if it's not 0:51:03.480 --> 0:51:07.239 going to work out for you, and if we become problematic, 0:51:07.480 --> 0:51:09.719 why would you want us? And if it's not going 0:51:09.800 --> 0:51:12.600 to work out for us, why would we want you? 0:51:12.760 --> 0:51:17.280 So let's just you know, have a handshake and get rolling. 0:51:18.880 --> 0:51:22.040 And when for some reason he accepted that and for 0:51:22.120 --> 0:51:27.960 our tire relationship there was never any you know contract. 0:51:28.880 --> 0:51:34.800 And d did do some very positive things for the band. 0:51:35.200 --> 0:51:40.319 First of all, he had this ability of gathering everybody. 0:51:40.640 --> 0:51:43.920 He loved live acts. He saw the Gules Band, he 0:51:44.040 --> 0:51:47.080 loved the Gules Band, the energy, he loved Humble Pie, 0:51:47.120 --> 0:51:50.560 he loved Steve Marriott. Uh. You know, he tutored Peter 0:51:50.760 --> 0:51:54.359 Frampton when Peter was going solo, and Peter would stay 0:51:54.360 --> 0:51:58.560 at his house and he uh, and so Dee was 0:51:58.640 --> 0:52:00.920 quite a character. You know, he would gather everybody in 0:52:00.960 --> 0:52:03.239 a huddle and have a whistle. Why don't you guys 0:52:03.239 --> 0:52:05.440 to go out there? And you know, just and so 0:52:05.520 --> 0:52:09.799 his first big decision was, I want you guys to 0:52:09.840 --> 0:52:14.319 make a live album and just record the songs. You've 0:52:14.360 --> 0:52:17.680 already said, d we can't go out there. We're just 0:52:17.719 --> 0:52:20.000 playing the songs that are on our first and second 0:52:20.040 --> 0:52:23.560 Atlantic record. You know, if we do a live album 0:52:24.040 --> 0:52:27.799 of just those songs, people are gonna think we run 0:52:27.880 --> 0:52:32.080 out of creativity. And back in those years, a live 0:52:32.120 --> 0:52:35.359 album was kind of a way of buying time. It 0:52:35.440 --> 0:52:41.800 wasn't accepted as authentic. It wasn't considered an authentic piece 0:52:41.880 --> 0:52:44.200 of work. I gues. Of course there's James brown Line, 0:52:44.239 --> 0:52:47.160 but for a rock and roll band, you know, the 0:52:47.200 --> 0:52:49.920 Allman Brothers live at the film or you know, was 0:52:49.960 --> 0:52:55.920 an anomaly. Uh uh. But so we recorded a live 0:52:55.960 --> 0:53:00.839 album and because d felt that our stage show was 0:53:01.000 --> 0:53:05.719 far more exciting and energetic than the recordings, and so 0:53:05.840 --> 0:53:10.280 we recorded our third album, Full House live in Detroit. 0:53:10.920 --> 0:53:16.200 That's I guess being re released by Rhino as a real, 0:53:16.920 --> 0:53:20.279 definitive aspect of the Guiles band, and it happens to 0:53:20.280 --> 0:53:25.080 be one of my favorite albums. And Dee was responsible 0:53:25.120 --> 0:53:27.799 for the making of that record because there was no 0:53:27.880 --> 0:53:32.280 way that we would have ever for our third album 0:53:32.760 --> 0:53:37.840 ever think of recording a live record. We were in 0:53:37.920 --> 0:53:40.080 the midst of making another studio record. 0:53:41.360 --> 0:53:43.160 Well that is what you know. There were the first 0:53:43.200 --> 0:53:47.360 couple of records and that did gain you notice previous 0:53:47.440 --> 0:53:50.279 to that, you worked with Bill Simsick before he was 0:53:50.320 --> 0:53:54.440 a household name, worked with Joe Walsh, eventually works with 0:53:54.480 --> 0:53:56.480 the Eagles. How'd you get hooked up with Bill Simsick? 0:53:58.600 --> 0:54:03.480 Our first ja Jay Gill's band, our first album I 0:54:03.480 --> 0:54:06.560 think was done in about eighteen days, mixed and everything, 0:54:06.800 --> 0:54:10.719 you know. And we were working with these two R 0:54:10.760 --> 0:54:15.719 and B producers that Brad Shapiro that ended up doing 0:54:15.760 --> 0:54:19.120 a lot of work with James Brown and Dave Crawford 0:54:19.160 --> 0:54:22.040 who did who was a writer and did a lot 0:54:22.080 --> 0:54:24.400 of great R and B stuff for Atlantic. And I 0:54:24.440 --> 0:54:30.120 think that they were Jerry Wexler's idea of being a 0:54:30.200 --> 0:54:36.840 new Gamble and Huff as a team. And so Brad 0:54:36.920 --> 0:54:40.080 was white, Dave Crawford was black. They both had R 0:54:40.120 --> 0:54:42.520 and B roots, and they thought, well, because of our 0:54:42.560 --> 0:54:46.759 blues and R and B, they might be good producers 0:54:46.760 --> 0:54:50.400 for us. And I remember we rolled in to the 0:54:50.440 --> 0:54:56.480 studio and we started playing and Dave and Brad said, well, 0:54:56.480 --> 0:54:58.600 start playing some stuff. We set up like we were 0:54:58.600 --> 0:55:02.040 on stage, and we started playing, and little did I 0:55:02.120 --> 0:55:05.120 know that they were actually recording us. That's how we 0:55:05.239 --> 0:55:10.520 basically recorded. The first record was basically those takes. And 0:55:10.600 --> 0:55:13.840 at one point Dave Crawford called me in the studios 0:55:13.880 --> 0:55:15.640 a Pete, can you come in the control room? I 0:55:15.640 --> 0:55:20.000 said sure. He said, what the hell is this thing 0:55:20.040 --> 0:55:22.960 with the harp? I said, what do you mean? He said, 0:55:23.440 --> 0:55:27.160 I mean who plays harmonica? I mean my grandmother listens 0:55:27.160 --> 0:55:32.839 to harmonica. And they had no idea of Paul Butterfield. 0:55:33.120 --> 0:55:37.239 They had no idea of the resurgence of Chicago, you know, 0:55:38.239 --> 0:55:41.839 bands like the Guyles Band, you know, bands like Bloomfield 0:55:41.840 --> 0:55:45.480 and Butterfield and Al Cooper and Barry Goldberg and the 0:55:45.520 --> 0:55:50.200 whole resurgence of you know, you know, Blues Project with 0:55:50.280 --> 0:55:53.520 Al Cooper. They had no idea of that world. And 0:55:53.600 --> 0:55:58.720 so we were, you know, coming to make our second record, 0:55:59.280 --> 0:56:03.360 and I'm not sure the James Gang. I was a 0:56:03.400 --> 0:56:06.480 big fan of the James Gang, Joe Walsh, and we're 0:56:06.520 --> 0:56:11.920 still friends to this day. An amazing character, amazing musician, 0:56:12.000 --> 0:56:16.960 amazing guy. And Bill's name came up in the mix 0:56:17.680 --> 0:56:20.919 and we were out in Detroit at the gold Key 0:56:21.040 --> 0:56:27.880 Restaurant where this was in maybe seventy three or something, 0:56:28.200 --> 0:56:31.719 and I remember the Dells, the R and B group, 0:56:31.800 --> 0:56:34.839 the Dells that sang the great hit Oh what a night, 0:56:35.600 --> 0:56:36.600 Oh what a night? 0:56:37.480 --> 0:56:38.640 Do that you do? 0:56:39.560 --> 0:56:43.440 It's early morning, so pardon me, So, I mean it 0:56:43.520 --> 0:56:45.719 was amazing. There's the Dell's. I mean, I love the 0:56:45.760 --> 0:56:47.920 Dells and Bill Sims, a guy. We all had to 0:56:47.960 --> 0:56:50.680 talk and Bill said, you know, listen. You know, I 0:56:50.680 --> 0:56:52.880 see you guys live. I said, you know, I wouldn't 0:56:52.880 --> 0:56:54.880 do much. I wouldn't change this sound. I would just 0:56:54.960 --> 0:56:57.960 you know, try to enhance it in the studio and 0:56:58.280 --> 0:57:01.080 we're all talking and we the TV on. We're all 0:57:01.120 --> 0:57:04.239 in this hotel room and Bill came in and we 0:57:04.239 --> 0:57:06.000 were just kind of amazed because he had on a 0:57:06.040 --> 0:57:08.239 T shirt and just you know, playing and it was 0:57:08.320 --> 0:57:11.600 just like one of us. And we for this meeting. 0:57:11.640 --> 0:57:14.120 We had bought a bunch of popcorn and we had 0:57:14.160 --> 0:57:17.520 some hamburgers we bought, and we had this big, you 0:57:17.560 --> 0:57:20.280 know watermelon. It we sliced up, and we were all 0:57:20.320 --> 0:57:23.360 sitting around and just big kegs you know, beer and 0:57:23.440 --> 0:57:28.840 drinking beer. And I'm trying to think it was the 0:57:28.880 --> 0:57:34.680 singer that Elvis Presley. Every time Elvis Presley saw him 0:57:34.680 --> 0:57:37.440 on the TV, he would take out a magnum and 0:57:37.480 --> 0:57:42.000 shoot it Guley. Robert Ulay and Elvis is good for 0:57:42.040 --> 0:57:45.400 some reason, you know. So the Elvis Maffi would always 0:57:45.640 --> 0:57:48.680 if they knew Robert Ulay was going to be on 0:57:48.720 --> 0:57:50.960 a television show, to make sure Elvis wouldn't want it, 0:57:51.000 --> 0:57:53.160 because if he was at the Hilton Hotel he'd take 0:57:53.200 --> 0:57:57.600 out the gun and bam, you know, shoot a TV. Well, 0:57:58.480 --> 0:58:01.200 Robert Ulay was on the Mic Douglas Show. We're in 0:58:01.240 --> 0:58:05.200 the middle of this meeting and Bill looks up, takes 0:58:05.200 --> 0:58:09.320 out half a watermelon and goes wam right into the 0:58:09.320 --> 0:58:12.400 TV set and man, we all just got up and 0:58:12.480 --> 0:58:16.200 cheered and said, yeah, we found our producer because he 0:58:16.520 --> 0:58:21.320 just you know, first of all, he produced bb King's 0:58:21.320 --> 0:58:23.880 big hit, The Thrill Is Gone. He knew all these 0:58:23.880 --> 0:58:28.280 great jazz artists, but he wasn't. He was one of us. 0:58:28.960 --> 0:58:34.720 And we just had an instantaneous connection with him spiritually, artistically, 0:58:35.160 --> 0:58:42.200 and he was an amazing guy. And Bill, I remember 0:58:42.680 --> 0:58:47.040 we'd come we were doing our first session with Bill 0:58:47.080 --> 0:58:50.800 at the Record Plant West, and then we moved to 0:58:50.840 --> 0:58:55.080 do some overdubs at the Record Plant East, and this 0:58:55.160 --> 0:58:57.880 young guy would come, friend of Bill's, with a little 0:58:57.880 --> 0:59:02.120 at Taysha case and he'd say to me, listen, you 0:59:02.240 --> 0:59:06.320 guys are great. I should manage it. And I said, well, 0:59:06.640 --> 0:59:09.000 we got a manager, and he goes, no, no, no, 0:59:10.480 --> 0:59:14.600 that's not a manager. I'm a manager. You should let 0:59:14.600 --> 0:59:17.439 me manage it. And he opened up is that test 0:59:17.480 --> 0:59:20.240 shake case? And you had me all this stuff and 0:59:20.280 --> 0:59:24.760 he would, you know, appear quite frequently, and I took 0:59:24.800 --> 0:59:28.160 to him. He was a really you know, very smart 0:59:28.600 --> 0:59:32.240 and you know guy. But the idea of you know, 0:59:32.840 --> 0:59:37.040 breaking away from you know, the choice of Frank Barcelona 0:59:37.200 --> 0:59:40.040 on our handshake deal, you know, and just you know, 0:59:40.080 --> 0:59:43.960 we were rolling along. But that young guy with that 0:59:44.080 --> 0:59:48.040 test shake case was this young fella starting in management 0:59:48.600 --> 0:59:52.480 and his name was Irving asof and that began a 0:59:52.680 --> 0:59:55.680 very long friendship to this day that I have with Irving. 0:59:56.640 --> 0:59:59.760 He's kind of like one of my guardians. One of 0:59:59.800 --> 1:00:02.600 my rabbi is somebody I will call and you know, 1:00:03.880 --> 1:00:06.959 if I email Irving. You know, there are certain people 1:00:07.000 --> 1:00:09.920 in the music industry. Irving was one. Geffen was another 1:00:10.640 --> 1:00:12.600 John Winner when he was at Rolling Stone that you 1:00:12.640 --> 1:00:17.000 could connect with and within ten minutes they would either 1:00:17.080 --> 1:00:19.520 answer you or the secretary would you know, tell you 1:00:19.560 --> 1:00:22.440 why you weren't getting an answer? But they always you know, 1:00:22.800 --> 1:00:27.840 responded Irving still to this day, Happy Thanksgiving, Irving. Two 1:00:27.920 --> 1:00:31.680 seconds later, gobble gobble, you know. And so I'm in 1:00:31.720 --> 1:00:35.040 touch with Irving. And it's quite interesting because the other night, 1:00:35.360 --> 1:00:39.040 just last night, no, the night before last, I was 1:00:39.320 --> 1:00:45.560 backstage going to Vince Gill show, and Vince is now 1:00:46.280 --> 1:00:50.680 an Eagle and he's great talent. And I loved Vince 1:00:50.720 --> 1:00:54.440 for you know, decades, and I knew him when he 1:00:54.520 --> 1:01:00.200 first got involved with Amy Grant. And how I also 1:01:00.320 --> 1:01:04.880 met Irving was the Eagles opened up for the j 1:01:05.080 --> 1:01:08.200 Giles Band a good many times, and that's how I 1:01:08.240 --> 1:01:12.560 became very friendly with Don and Glenn and the band, 1:01:12.720 --> 1:01:18.360 but especially Glenn and Down. And when I travel out 1:01:18.400 --> 1:01:21.480 to Los Angeles to do any kind of business and 1:01:21.480 --> 1:01:24.560 stuff for the band, I would always connect with Irving 1:01:24.960 --> 1:01:27.680 and I'd always either go to his house or Don's house, 1:01:28.160 --> 1:01:32.440 and Don and I remain very close throughout the years, 1:01:32.920 --> 1:01:35.560 and every time the Gules Band was doing an important date, 1:01:35.720 --> 1:01:38.040 Don always sent a telegram to me, you know, break 1:01:38.040 --> 1:01:40.480 a leg, you know, good luck at Madison Square Garden. 1:01:40.520 --> 1:01:47.360 And so it's funny how relationships like that remain. For instance, 1:01:48.960 --> 1:01:52.040 you two opened up for the Jay Giles band and 1:01:52.200 --> 1:01:54.960 we to this day. I always go to see him, 1:01:55.080 --> 1:01:58.560 pay respects, and the friendship remains. Tom Petty opened up 1:01:58.600 --> 1:02:01.880 for the Giles Band, and when Tom's last tour came, 1:02:02.160 --> 1:02:04.800 you know, as a soloist, he said Pete I'd love 1:02:04.960 --> 1:02:07.000 I'd be honor, you know, I'd love you to do 1:02:07.120 --> 1:02:09.120 some dates. So I did about eight and nine dates 1:02:09.120 --> 1:02:12.040 with my solo band for Tom and so they opened 1:02:12.120 --> 1:02:14.400 up for us, and I opened up for Tom, and 1:02:14.800 --> 1:02:18.600 unfortunately it became his last tour. But you know, the 1:02:18.600 --> 1:02:25.080 circle goes around, and uh uh, I guess I live on, 1:02:25.480 --> 1:02:30.680 you know, just enthusiasm, energy and the will to keep going. 1:02:31.240 --> 1:02:36.880 But uh, you know, unlike d I don't think of money, 1:02:37.200 --> 1:02:40.920 money money. I think of the artistic challenge, the artistic 1:02:41.000 --> 1:02:44.480 challenge and the artistic challenge. Though a lot of people 1:02:44.680 --> 1:02:50.320 just know me as Peter Wolf lead singer, or the 1:02:50.440 --> 1:02:53.120 Jay Giles band or the Jay Giles. Oh yeah, that's 1:02:53.160 --> 1:02:57.479 Jay Giles. And it's so funny because you know, once 1:02:57.520 --> 1:03:02.280 you establish a brand name in rock and roll, it's 1:03:02.440 --> 1:03:07.800 very hard to break away from it, and very few 1:03:08.640 --> 1:03:13.280 have succeeded in it. You know, Phil Collins was one, 1:03:13.960 --> 1:03:16.600 Peter Gabriel is another. I mean, of course there're you know, 1:03:16.640 --> 1:03:19.600 you could make a list, but the amount that tried 1:03:20.040 --> 1:03:23.760 that couldn't is far far bigger than those that were 1:03:23.800 --> 1:03:30.000 able to. And I'll give you for instance, if Sting 1:03:31.080 --> 1:03:34.760 was to play Boston he would be able to play 1:03:35.400 --> 1:03:40.040 the Wang Theater. I would think definitely one night. I 1:03:40.040 --> 1:03:42.320 don't know about two. I'm just I don't know, but 1:03:42.360 --> 1:03:47.040 I'm just making a thing. Now, here's Sting, who came 1:03:47.080 --> 1:03:50.560 out of a three piece band. He's the player of 1:03:50.600 --> 1:03:56.040 the bass player in his band, the Police. He's the 1:03:56.080 --> 1:04:02.200 sole songwriter of the band, the Police, and he's the 1:04:02.320 --> 1:04:06.640 singer of all the songs of the Police. And the 1:04:06.680 --> 1:04:09.880 Police is a three piece band. If Sting was to 1:04:09.960 --> 1:04:14.840 go out, he'd play the Wang Theater. If the Police 1:04:14.920 --> 1:04:19.800 went out, he'd play Fen White Park. And here it is. 1:04:19.960 --> 1:04:24.800 It's the same singer, same player, and just by the 1:04:24.920 --> 1:04:29.880 name the Police, Sting could put together a far more 1:04:30.040 --> 1:04:36.800 interesting musical group than the Police, you know, by adding 1:04:36.880 --> 1:04:41.200 some of the greatest players and you know, but it's 1:04:41.240 --> 1:04:46.600 the brand name, and people don't care that it's still Sting. 1:04:47.280 --> 1:04:52.240 They hear Police, and Police is far more valuable to 1:04:52.560 --> 1:04:56.800 a promoter than the name Sting. And go figure that 1:04:56.920 --> 1:05:02.240 one out. 1:05:05.200 --> 1:05:09.080 Okay, you end up having a relationship in being married 1:05:09.200 --> 1:05:14.439 to Fade done Away. At the time, rock was much 1:05:14.480 --> 1:05:19.320 bigger than movies, but movies had a glamor that was different. 1:05:20.040 --> 1:05:24.040 So you're in this situation where you're in her world. 1:05:24.080 --> 1:05:27.120 At times when you're in her world, did you feel 1:05:27.160 --> 1:05:29.600 like you would also ran like you were out of place? 1:05:31.680 --> 1:05:34.640 Well, Bob, it's interesting, you know, I don't know if 1:05:34.920 --> 1:05:37.040 rock was a bigger world. I mean, movies were making 1:05:37.120 --> 1:05:40.200 far more money than a rock and roll did, but 1:05:40.320 --> 1:05:42.560 they both were making quite a lot of money. But 1:05:42.600 --> 1:05:44.920 the thing was in the era when I first the 1:05:45.000 --> 1:05:50.160 time that I met Fae, all actors wanted to be 1:05:50.280 --> 1:05:54.560 rock and rollers, and all rock and rollers ended actors, 1:05:54.840 --> 1:05:57.560 but there were very few. I don't know if there 1:05:57.560 --> 1:06:00.880 were any major rockers that were married to actors or 1:06:00.920 --> 1:06:03.600 actresses at that time. You know, a lot in the story, 1:06:03.680 --> 1:06:06.920 as I was saying with Hitchcock and different people that 1:06:07.000 --> 1:06:09.560 I mentioned, and how I ran into Bob Dylan, it 1:06:09.600 --> 1:06:12.720 was all by chance, serpentdipity, and I did not want 1:06:12.760 --> 1:06:15.800 this book to be oh I met this famous person 1:06:15.880 --> 1:06:19.120 or I met that famous person. What I found in 1:06:19.200 --> 1:06:23.440 a lot of the musical books that I were reading 1:06:23.960 --> 1:06:26.320 was they would mention a character, but they didn't really 1:06:26.360 --> 1:06:30.080 tell you what the character was like. So I tried 1:06:30.120 --> 1:06:33.440 to be There was a quote that I used in 1:06:33.480 --> 1:06:37.160 the book from Christopher Issuwood. I am a camera with 1:06:37.240 --> 1:06:40.200 the lens always open. So I tried to be the 1:06:40.240 --> 1:06:44.919 camera taking pictures of like Muddy and Dylan and Van 1:06:45.000 --> 1:06:48.520 Morrison and people that I got to know, but tried to, 1:06:49.480 --> 1:06:53.480 you know, without being kiss and tell, but just tried 1:06:53.520 --> 1:06:56.400 to show what their personalities were like, what it was 1:06:56.520 --> 1:06:59.040 like spending time with them, What was it like hanging 1:06:59.080 --> 1:07:01.960 out with Van, what was it like, you know, meeting 1:07:02.000 --> 1:07:04.960 Alfred Hitchcock in his house. And so the book is 1:07:05.000 --> 1:07:09.080 those kind of adventures, I would say. And so one 1:07:09.160 --> 1:07:14.880 day we were playing the Fillmore West in California, and 1:07:15.080 --> 1:07:20.080 you know, there was that great Tony Bennett's song I 1:07:20.200 --> 1:07:22.640 Left my Heart in San Francisco, and I was saying 1:07:22.680 --> 1:07:26.280 to this woman that worked for Rolling Stone magazine, you know, Bryn, 1:07:27.840 --> 1:07:30.919 San Francisco is one of my favorite towns. It's such 1:07:30.960 --> 1:07:34.240 a known to be a romantic town. I don't know anybody, 1:07:35.280 --> 1:07:38.560 And so she said, I'll bring a girlfriend to come 1:07:38.920 --> 1:07:42.400 to the show tomorrow. We were playing in Winterland, and 1:07:42.480 --> 1:07:44.920 she did, and I could see her a side of 1:07:44.960 --> 1:07:47.280 the stage. She showed up and she had this gal 1:07:47.400 --> 1:07:52.000 with a hat pulled down, and long story short, that's 1:07:52.000 --> 1:07:56.960 how I first met Faye Dunaway, and I didn't really 1:07:57.120 --> 1:08:02.280 even know she was at first, and we became friends. 1:08:02.720 --> 1:08:07.040 I joined there during Christmas. We spent time together in 1:08:07.080 --> 1:08:12.240 New York and slowly, you know, she became so involved 1:08:12.720 --> 1:08:15.800 and loved music so much and enjoyed being on the 1:08:15.880 --> 1:08:19.240 road and visiting the band. And I was such a 1:08:19.240 --> 1:08:24.679 film buff. I enjoyed being in her world. And we 1:08:24.720 --> 1:08:30.559 both were so dedicated to our work and we both 1:08:30.600 --> 1:08:33.800 helped each other in our work that that became the 1:08:33.800 --> 1:08:39.240 bond of which turned into a marriage, and it remained 1:08:39.760 --> 1:08:41.960 for the years that it was good. It remained that way. 1:08:42.160 --> 1:08:44.519 You know. We never had a problem about, you know, 1:08:44.800 --> 1:08:48.080 who was a bigger star, who was more important, tough, 1:08:48.080 --> 1:08:51.720 who money or anything. We were just really committed to 1:08:51.800 --> 1:08:58.439 helping each other in all of our projects. And at 1:08:58.479 --> 1:09:02.200 that time, I think the only other after we got married, 1:09:02.240 --> 1:09:05.960 I think Sharon Greg Alman got married for about I 1:09:06.000 --> 1:09:08.639 don't know, five minutes or whatever it was. I remember 1:09:08.680 --> 1:09:11.280 being at a function and you know, I knew Greg 1:09:11.320 --> 1:09:14.960 because the Allman Brothers and the Guiles Band played must 1:09:14.960 --> 1:09:17.800 have played forty fifty shows together, you know, in the 1:09:17.840 --> 1:09:20.960 early days and when Dwayne was still with us and 1:09:21.160 --> 1:09:23.800 Dwayne and Jay Goals, you know, just you know, get 1:09:23.840 --> 1:09:27.000 to the venue three four hours earlier, and they would 1:09:27.040 --> 1:09:30.120 just do riffs, you know, on and on. I remember 1:09:30.200 --> 1:09:32.840 doing one, you know, you know, Greg just kind of 1:09:33.760 --> 1:09:41.519 you know, passed right out at this function and h So, yeah, 1:09:41.600 --> 1:09:46.240 it was it was interesting for me to meet some 1:09:46.320 --> 1:09:49.880 of the key players, Robert Evans, some of the big 1:09:49.920 --> 1:09:53.559 agents in Hollywood, and some of the great directors, you know, 1:09:53.600 --> 1:09:57.719 people like George Kueker and King Vidar and of course 1:09:57.760 --> 1:10:03.640 Alfred Hitchcock and my time spent with Roman Polanski. And 1:10:03.720 --> 1:10:08.880 so this to me was an adventure of meeting other 1:10:09.280 --> 1:10:13.040 really talented artists and being a film buff when I 1:10:13.120 --> 1:10:16.280 was a kid, I would you know, by the time 1:10:16.320 --> 1:10:19.520 I got to Boston, I almost had seen every important 1:10:19.640 --> 1:10:22.960 foreign film ever released, all the Bergman movies, all the 1:10:22.960 --> 1:10:26.640 Fellini movies, all the you know, true fol movies, you know, 1:10:26.640 --> 1:10:29.200 and everything that came out in that era, you know, 1:10:29.640 --> 1:10:33.360 which was a golden era for French films and the 1:10:33.400 --> 1:10:36.599 Swedish films. You know. I saw Alexander Nievsky, I mean, 1:10:36.600 --> 1:10:40.400 I just seen them all. So being on a movie 1:10:40.439 --> 1:10:45.519 set was very intriguing and also Fay and I had 1:10:45.560 --> 1:10:50.439 such an amazing relationship where, you know, I would take 1:10:50.479 --> 1:10:54.160 her out to have a sushi dinner with Wilson Pickett 1:10:54.160 --> 1:10:58.240 and Don Kove. Remember Pickett said, you know, so like 1:10:58.600 --> 1:11:00.840 what the hell is this fish? I mean, nobody couldn't 1:11:00.880 --> 1:11:03.720 It was just I mean, it was it was hilarious. 1:11:03.880 --> 1:11:06.880 And then you know, going to have dinner with Alan 1:11:07.000 --> 1:11:11.000 mcgraar and Steve McQueen or Barbaris Dreyisan's house. You know, 1:11:11.200 --> 1:11:15.120 so we were both able to share each other's worlds. 1:11:15.800 --> 1:11:18.280 And that's what I tried to write in the book, 1:11:18.520 --> 1:11:21.920 you know, sort of a Valentine to the Arow and 1:11:22.040 --> 1:11:25.120 our you know, marriage was really very fruitful. 1:11:26.160 --> 1:11:29.519 But you weren't a lot of situations that were not 1:11:29.720 --> 1:11:33.320 your world as were significant other and at times husband 1:11:34.560 --> 1:11:36.679 and a lot of times you you know, people didn't 1:11:36.720 --> 1:11:40.439 respect you. Did you ever feel like me? And you know, 1:11:41.040 --> 1:11:44.080 I'm just here. Don't why you're down on me. It's like, 1:11:44.280 --> 1:11:46.920 you know, I'm involved in a relationship with you know, 1:11:47.880 --> 1:11:50.640 treat me as an equal. You're treating other people's significant 1:11:50.640 --> 1:11:51.640 others as equals. 1:11:52.160 --> 1:11:53.600 I'm not sure what you mean, but. 1:11:55.080 --> 1:11:59.839 Okay, See movie business traditionally looks down on the music business. 1:12:00.160 --> 1:12:00.800 Well not then. 1:12:01.760 --> 1:12:05.559 Okay, so you felt totally comfortable whenever you were with 1:12:05.720 --> 1:12:09.080 Faye in movie situations. 1:12:09.120 --> 1:12:14.400 Well, no, I hear what you're saying. No, because you know, 1:12:14.439 --> 1:12:18.120 there was so much money. Every five minutes, you know, 1:12:18.479 --> 1:12:20.760 would be a recording budget, you know, because if the 1:12:20.840 --> 1:12:25.960 light went this, the pressure was intense. Uh. And you know, people, 1:12:26.760 --> 1:12:29.920 you know, back then, nobody knew the Jay Giles Band 1:12:29.960 --> 1:12:33.479 were you know, basically it wasn't uh, and many people 1:12:33.520 --> 1:12:36.599 weren't into rock that were involved in the music industry 1:12:36.760 --> 1:12:41.400 at that point. Younger actors and actresses certainly were, but 1:12:41.760 --> 1:12:44.719 you know, uh, you know, we weren't the Rolling Stones, 1:12:44.840 --> 1:12:48.880 and we weren't led Zeppelin, and so we weren't you know, 1:12:49.000 --> 1:12:52.960 so uh, many people just thought of me as this 1:12:53.320 --> 1:12:57.920 you know, rock guy, you know with Fay. But those 1:12:58.000 --> 1:13:01.040 who you know, I remember going out to dinner with 1:13:01.080 --> 1:13:04.639 the fellow that you know was producing The Poseidon Adventure 1:13:04.680 --> 1:13:08.559 and Towering Inferno, and uh, you know, once we got together, 1:13:08.680 --> 1:13:12.559 or having a dinner with Siddeley La met uh, whose 1:13:12.840 --> 1:13:17.720 wife was oh h the great singer buck A bug 1:13:17.720 --> 1:13:21.120 A bug a book great, Oh, it'll come to me 1:13:23.000 --> 1:13:27.360 you know, we would have you know, a great interaction 1:13:27.520 --> 1:13:32.040 because people I would realize I wasn't just this you know, 1:13:32.520 --> 1:13:35.360 drugged out crazy rocker because I didn't do drugs. I wasn't, 1:13:35.520 --> 1:13:39.559 you know, in my opinion, that crazy. So I was 1:13:39.640 --> 1:13:42.400 accepted by those people who got to Monomi, which is 1:13:42.400 --> 1:13:46.040 one of the reasons I wrote this book, because you know, 1:13:46.920 --> 1:13:50.519 to let people know some of the adventures that I 1:13:50.640 --> 1:13:53.880 was able and privileged and the people I was privileged 1:13:53.920 --> 1:13:58.559 to meet. Uh, that was beyond just rock and roll. 1:13:59.040 --> 1:14:01.599 Uh not. You know, I love rock and roll, but 1:14:01.840 --> 1:14:04.360 there are more. There was more to my life than 1:14:04.560 --> 1:14:07.879 just you know, getting on a bus, getting on stage, 1:14:08.040 --> 1:14:10.280 doing a sound check, you know, going in the studio, 1:14:10.479 --> 1:14:13.519 making an album, promoting the album, getting back on the 1:14:13.640 --> 1:14:16.840 you know, et cetera, et cetera. So, uh, that's what 1:14:16.920 --> 1:14:19.800 the meaning of the Waiting on the Moon was about. 1:14:20.600 --> 1:14:25.599 Okay, ahmit amit is portrayed as this dapper guy. They 1:14:25.600 --> 1:14:28.120 did a story about him and the New Yorker, but 1:14:28.240 --> 1:14:31.920 Amic could talk shit and had sharp elbows. The people 1:14:31.960 --> 1:14:34.960 who knew him were aware of what was your experience 1:14:35.000 --> 1:14:35.800 with ahmit. 1:14:36.400 --> 1:14:39.160 I was quite intrigued with Ahmat as a character. I mean, 1:14:39.240 --> 1:14:41.960 Ahmitt was, you know, a character out of a novel. 1:14:42.280 --> 1:14:46.000 Uh he he, he would be like I. I didn't 1:14:46.040 --> 1:14:48.960 see all of the ray movie, but I did see 1:14:49.000 --> 1:14:51.120 the clip with Ahmen and there was nothing like amen. 1:14:51.320 --> 1:14:53.800 You know, they they didn't even come close. You know. 1:14:53.960 --> 1:14:58.880 Ahmitt was a very very bright him and his brother, 1:14:58.920 --> 1:15:02.800 and that's why we were bright. They went to incredible schools. 1:15:03.200 --> 1:15:07.599 They were the sons of the Turkish ambassador uh the 1:15:07.680 --> 1:15:11.120 United States. They lived in Washington, d C. They had 1:15:11.200 --> 1:15:15.519 parties in there at the embassy with people like Duke 1:15:15.560 --> 1:15:18.800 Allington and Cab Callaway and you know, they were just 1:15:19.240 --> 1:15:23.360 jazz and finadoes. They were very cultured. And Ahmed spoke 1:15:23.439 --> 1:15:28.800 many languages, and he was a charismatic character and an 1:15:28.880 --> 1:15:34.960 amazing businessman. And his passion for music was and his 1:15:35.560 --> 1:15:40.960 uh knowledge of music was so enormous, uh and his 1:15:41.000 --> 1:15:44.600 ability of I have a chapter of a night on 1:15:44.640 --> 1:15:48.120 the Town with Ahmit, and you would go from you know, 1:15:48.880 --> 1:15:51.760 being at this very plush dinner party where you would 1:15:51.800 --> 1:15:55.559 have people like the Mayor of New York, Henry Kishinger, uh, 1:15:56.160 --> 1:15:59.120 you know, and then we'd end up at the Carlisle 1:15:59.200 --> 1:16:02.360 Hotel to see short then go to Buddy's Place to 1:16:02.360 --> 1:16:07.240 see Joe Williams, then go to fifty second Street to 1:16:07.320 --> 1:16:10.880 see Little Jazz, you know, Roy Eldridge, and then go 1:16:10.960 --> 1:16:15.559 downtown to see Reno Sweeney's to see Manhattan Transfer, then 1:16:15.600 --> 1:16:17.960 go to this other club to see a new rock 1:16:18.000 --> 1:16:21.320 band he was recorded, and then go downtown to you know, 1:16:21.479 --> 1:16:24.000 see Larry Rivers, the painter, and hang out, you know, 1:16:24.080 --> 1:16:26.439 in his loft, and then go back out and the 1:16:26.520 --> 1:16:29.639 sun's coming up. And you know, that was one night 1:16:29.880 --> 1:16:32.360 with Amet, and the next day he'd be in the office, 1:16:32.479 --> 1:16:35.439 you know, taking care of business at Atlantic. And so 1:16:35.600 --> 1:16:43.879 Amet was this incredibly charismanic figure and incredibly brilliant figure 1:16:44.080 --> 1:16:53.120 obviously in business. And when Ross bought and form w EA, 1:16:54.479 --> 1:16:58.600 he had the Kinney parking lots. The ingenious thing he 1:16:58.640 --> 1:17:03.160 did was when he put uh Warner Brothers, Atlantic, Lecture 1:17:03.280 --> 1:17:09.000 and Uh, you know together to form WEA Uh. He 1:17:09.200 --> 1:17:17.160 kept the people that founded these labels in place. So 1:17:17.200 --> 1:17:20.720 you had Mo Austin still running his label, you had 1:17:20.760 --> 1:17:24.400 Amit running his label, and Geffen and all of the above, 1:17:24.760 --> 1:17:29.439 and so uh it was a very lucrative time for 1:17:30.960 --> 1:17:34.959 the record industry. And so being a friend of omit. Socially, 1:17:35.400 --> 1:17:37.840 I got to meet all the players. I remember with 1:17:37.960 --> 1:17:41.519 Jerry Wexler, we'd go to a dinner party at Mo 1:17:41.680 --> 1:17:45.240 Austin's and everybody had their wine cellars and we're trying 1:17:45.240 --> 1:17:48.719 to out to each other who had the greatest wine cellars. 1:17:48.800 --> 1:17:52.080 And it was just a very heady time in the 1:17:52.160 --> 1:17:56.519 music industry. So one night being with all the great players, 1:17:56.600 --> 1:17:59.320 Jerry Moss and from A and M, and you know, 1:17:59.560 --> 1:18:02.320 being at a dinner party with those people one night, 1:18:03.200 --> 1:18:06.200 and then being at a dinner party at Chasin's with 1:18:06.280 --> 1:18:10.040 the entire Hollywood brass. You know, it was you know, 1:18:10.080 --> 1:18:12.800 when I think back at it. At the time, I 1:18:12.920 --> 1:18:15.679 just accepted it as my life. But when I think 1:18:15.720 --> 1:18:17.960 back at it, it was pretty remarkable. 1:18:19.640 --> 1:18:23.800 Okay. In the book you talk about the breakup of 1:18:23.840 --> 1:18:27.759 the you being excised from the Jay Gills band. Let's 1:18:27.760 --> 1:18:31.240 cut to the chase. Were they jealous that you were 1:18:31.280 --> 1:18:35.280 the front person? Was it a personality thing or was 1:18:35.320 --> 1:18:39.040 it the money? And are all three? Because as a 1:18:39.080 --> 1:18:42.040 writer you get more money and then you say you 1:18:42.160 --> 1:18:46.679 regretted reunion shows. So tell me what was going on there? 1:18:47.720 --> 1:18:50.759 Well, first thing, it had nothing to do with money. 1:18:51.560 --> 1:18:57.120 That was not the problem. And as I explained in 1:18:57.240 --> 1:19:01.680 the book, it's a chapter all practice size. You know, 1:19:01.680 --> 1:19:04.479 it's funny, Bob. When I first started the book, the 1:19:04.520 --> 1:19:07.680 two things I made it a point of there were 1:19:07.680 --> 1:19:10.120 two things I was not going to write about. I 1:19:10.160 --> 1:19:13.040 was not going to write about my marriage, and I 1:19:13.080 --> 1:19:14.960 was not going to write about the Jay Giles Band. 1:19:15.160 --> 1:19:18.280 I just thought I would make a book of short 1:19:18.320 --> 1:19:23.960 stories of Ahmet and Don Covey or Muddy John Lee Hooker, 1:19:24.000 --> 1:19:25.880 Alfred Hitchcock. And it was just going to be a 1:19:25.880 --> 1:19:30.000 collection of these short vignettes and like New Yorker profiles. 1:19:30.760 --> 1:19:34.439 But as I got on, people at the publishing company thought, 1:19:34.520 --> 1:19:39.160 you know, Peter, we're all interested in your marriage, or we're 1:19:39.320 --> 1:19:42.920 interested in Jay Giles. So you got to say something, 1:19:42.960 --> 1:19:45.080 You got to do something. So I decided to write 1:19:45.120 --> 1:19:49.840 a chapter about the Giles Band. And the Giles Band, 1:19:50.920 --> 1:19:55.160 as I explained, like many bands at that era, be 1:19:55.280 --> 1:19:58.559 it the Rolling Stones, you had what they called I 1:19:58.680 --> 1:20:02.599 call key players. The Eagles, Glenn Fry and Don Henley 1:20:02.640 --> 1:20:06.200 were the key players. And Zeppelin you had Jimmy Page, 1:20:06.479 --> 1:20:11.719 Robert Plant and you know the Stones you had Jagger 1:20:12.160 --> 1:20:18.840 Richard's and the Beatles, McCartney Lennon, and when that when 1:20:18.880 --> 1:20:21.519 those two key players, which are very close, it's like 1:20:21.520 --> 1:20:23.840 a marriage and the rest of the band is like 1:20:23.880 --> 1:20:29.440 a family. When there's a fracture between those two key players, 1:20:29.880 --> 1:20:36.200 that's usually unless a really talented manager or somebody intervenes 1:20:36.840 --> 1:20:39.920 and is able to, you know, act as a marriage 1:20:39.960 --> 1:20:46.639 counselor to get over whatever is causing the problems. Usually 1:20:46.640 --> 1:20:50.000 it's the sign the beginning of the end for the group. 1:20:50.960 --> 1:20:55.160 And that's what happened with the Gules. The reasoning being, 1:20:55.320 --> 1:20:57.720 you know what, I didn't write in the book, and 1:20:57.760 --> 1:21:00.400 I don't know why I didn't. I thought about later 1:21:01.160 --> 1:21:07.240 back in nineteen seventy, No, back in nineteen sixty eight. 1:21:09.040 --> 1:21:13.519 Once we got signed to Atlantic, Atlantic forgot about us 1:21:13.560 --> 1:21:15.719 for about a year and we were just touring around. 1:21:16.600 --> 1:21:21.680 The band had a meeting and decided they were going 1:21:21.720 --> 1:21:23.840 to have a meeting after a show. I remember Jay 1:21:23.840 --> 1:21:25.320 came up to me and said, Pete, there's going to 1:21:25.400 --> 1:21:28.800 be a band meeting, but we really rather you not 1:21:29.000 --> 1:21:33.240 come to it. I said really, and he said yeah, 1:21:33.720 --> 1:21:37.040 And this is nineteen sixty eight. And they came out 1:21:37.240 --> 1:21:43.879 and they said, we feel that, you know, you're holding 1:21:44.120 --> 1:21:49.240 back the band. You're not a real singer. You know, 1:21:49.439 --> 1:21:56.880 you don't have the chops needed, and we just you know, 1:21:57.760 --> 1:22:00.719 not wanting you to stay in the band anymore. We voted, 1:22:01.000 --> 1:22:06.320 we voted you out, and I was devastated. I mean 1:22:06.360 --> 1:22:14.000 I was, you know, totally devastated. And I remember about 1:22:14.479 --> 1:22:18.080 two three weeks later, I get a phone call from 1:22:18.920 --> 1:22:21.720 Jay and saying could they come over to my apartment? 1:22:22.520 --> 1:22:26.400 And they did, and they said, listen, we apologize. You know, 1:22:26.439 --> 1:22:31.200 we made a really big mistake, and we really wonder 1:22:31.240 --> 1:22:34.640 if you appreciate coming back, and let's just continue as 1:22:34.680 --> 1:22:37.559 if nothing happened. And I loved the band so much. 1:22:37.840 --> 1:22:42.600 I did, and maybe at that point, if I was 1:22:42.720 --> 1:22:46.799 wise enough, I might have said, you know, Jay Giles 1:22:46.840 --> 1:22:51.800 band featuring Peter Woolf or something, because throughout the good 1:22:51.800 --> 1:22:54.800 part of the band, most people saw it I was 1:22:54.920 --> 1:22:56.960 Jay Giles because I was the front guy. And I 1:22:56.960 --> 1:23:02.000 remember when we first played the More East Bill, Graham 1:23:02.400 --> 1:23:06.280 put us on without seeing us and came running into 1:23:06.320 --> 1:23:08.559 the dressing room after the show. We got about four 1:23:08.680 --> 1:23:11.639 encores and he threw his arms around me and said, Jay, 1:23:11.960 --> 1:23:14.439 you were amazing. He lifted me up to the ground. 1:23:14.479 --> 1:23:17.240 I said, Bill, I'm not Jay. He said what He goes, 1:23:17.240 --> 1:23:19.000 I'm Pete Wilop. He goes, who the hell is J 1:23:19.840 --> 1:23:22.559 I said, the guitar player. And Bill always wanted to 1:23:22.600 --> 1:23:26.639 manage the band, also wanted to manage me. And I said, well, Bill, 1:23:26.680 --> 1:23:29.679 if you were going to manage the band, what would 1:23:29.680 --> 1:23:30.920 you do? He is. The first thing I'd do is 1:23:31.000 --> 1:23:35.479 change the name that Jay Giles is confusing everything. Confused me. 1:23:35.520 --> 1:23:38.280 He's confusing everything. You know, think of another name or 1:23:38.320 --> 1:23:40.559 you know whatever. I said, Bill, that's not going to fly. 1:23:41.560 --> 1:23:49.000 And so going back to after we're signed now with 1:23:49.080 --> 1:23:57.960 EMI Records, and Freeze Frame comes out and centerfold, which 1:23:58.040 --> 1:24:01.439 nobody in the band thought was should be the single. 1:24:04.680 --> 1:24:07.880 My other key member thought it should be a ballad 1:24:07.960 --> 1:24:11.519 called Angel and Blue, and I thought it should be 1:24:11.560 --> 1:24:13.840 Freeze Frame, you know, because I had a rock and 1:24:13.960 --> 1:24:17.080 thing for the first single, and I knew that the 1:24:17.240 --> 1:24:22.360 album was going to sell lots of records because disco 1:24:22.520 --> 1:24:25.240 was dying and you had bands like, you know, Bob 1:24:25.320 --> 1:24:28.160 Seger back on the charts, Joan Jet was back on 1:24:28.200 --> 1:24:31.679 the charts, all these bands that have been touring for years. 1:24:32.200 --> 1:24:34.680 You know, we're coming back and rock and roll was 1:24:34.720 --> 1:24:37.280 really having it stay in the sun again, and I 1:24:37.360 --> 1:24:40.320 knew the Giles band with the impact of Our Lives Show, 1:24:40.840 --> 1:24:43.960 it was our time. And EMI Jim Maza was the 1:24:43.960 --> 1:24:47.120 president at the time. He really believed this was the 1:24:47.200 --> 1:24:51.599 time for Giles. And so we're in the making of 1:24:51.640 --> 1:24:54.280 the video. My key number went out and of this 1:24:54.400 --> 1:25:00.720 ballad called Angel and Blue, a good song. And this 1:25:00.840 --> 1:25:04.120 fellow who was very close to me and really helped 1:25:04.360 --> 1:25:06.920 the band a lot. His name was Dick Williams. He 1:25:07.000 --> 1:25:11.679 was a promotion man for EMI America, and he went 1:25:12.120 --> 1:25:15.439 to Detroit, which was our one big market, and you 1:25:15.479 --> 1:25:19.960 would know this woman. You remember Rosalie, Uh yeah, yeah, 1:25:20.040 --> 1:25:24.439 the DJ. Yes, she was well, she was no a DJ, 1:25:24.600 --> 1:25:28.120 she was program director and she was considered to have 1:25:28.560 --> 1:25:32.519 the Golden ears. And so everybody took their records to 1:25:32.680 --> 1:25:36.320 Rosalie and if Rosalie certified it a hit, be it 1:25:36.720 --> 1:25:41.439 you know, uh you know, Muskrat Love or Captain and 1:25:41.520 --> 1:25:43.960 to Neil, whatever it was, it became a hit. She 1:25:44.120 --> 1:25:48.000 was so powerful, her taste was so powerful. She listened 1:25:48.000 --> 1:25:51.760 to the record and she said centerfold and so they 1:25:52.800 --> 1:25:56.840 Dick called up Jim Maza, president of em I called 1:25:56.880 --> 1:25:59.160 us we were making the video. Right in the middle 1:25:59.200 --> 1:26:01.960 of making the video for the song, he said, we're 1:26:02.040 --> 1:26:06.800 changing the single go what Go, Centophold, centophol Come on. 1:26:06.920 --> 1:26:10.560 That's kind of a fun song. But you know, and 1:26:10.640 --> 1:26:12.200 the rest, as they say, is history. 1:26:20.120 --> 1:26:23.839 Just staying on songs on the previous album. My favorite 1:26:23.880 --> 1:26:27.200 song is Comeback. Can you tell me the story of 1:26:27.400 --> 1:26:28.879 writing and recording Comeback? 1:26:29.280 --> 1:26:34.360 Well, come Back? Both we were big fans of the 1:26:34.400 --> 1:26:38.960 Ohio playoffs and the Ohio Players had songs like Fire 1:26:39.520 --> 1:26:43.120 and roller Coaster Ecstasy and things like that, and it 1:26:43.160 --> 1:26:47.879 Comeback was our attempt to try to capture the energy 1:26:48.479 --> 1:26:52.599 that the Ohio players had. And we would go see 1:26:52.600 --> 1:26:55.400 the Ohio Players all the time I did, and they 1:26:55.400 --> 1:26:58.400 were just you know, the show was amazing, There were 1:26:58.439 --> 1:27:01.760 coins amazing, They had this energy. So Comeback was an 1:27:01.800 --> 1:27:06.360 attempt to try to you know, without it going disco, 1:27:07.040 --> 1:27:11.400 you know, quote unquote where you know people might say, uh, 1:27:11.760 --> 1:27:14.800 mishoot by the Stones or you know Rod Stewart's you 1:27:14.840 --> 1:27:18.400 know attempt you know, people try to keep that that 1:27:18.520 --> 1:27:24.880 beat going. But uh, that's what really Comeback was all about, 1:27:25.000 --> 1:27:28.559 was trying to emulate the Ohio players. 1:27:29.160 --> 1:27:31.120 What's the best live show you ever did. 1:27:32.720 --> 1:27:35.760 Oh, that's really tough, you know. 1:27:36.200 --> 1:27:36.320 Uh. 1:27:36.960 --> 1:27:40.120 I'm not saying this to downgrade the Guiles band. Uh, 1:27:40.160 --> 1:27:44.880 but there are some solo shows that means so much 1:27:44.920 --> 1:27:48.680 to me. But I would think, you know, closing night 1:27:48.840 --> 1:27:51.559 at the film or when we played with Albert King 1:27:52.360 --> 1:27:56.559 and uh, the Allman Brothers Fillmore East was a really 1:27:57.120 --> 1:28:00.839 really special evening. Uh. And I remember all my brothers 1:28:00.960 --> 1:28:04.479 went till five six in the morning, Uh, playing I 1:28:04.479 --> 1:28:07.920 think five or six nights straight. The Pine Knob in 1:28:08.000 --> 1:28:12.799 Detroit was just you know, incredible. Selling out the Boston 1:28:12.880 --> 1:28:16.879 Garden for the first time, uh for the band, uh 1:28:16.920 --> 1:28:23.160 was incredible. And uh, of course Boston Garden, the old 1:28:23.200 --> 1:28:26.680 Boston Garden had no air conditioning, the small seats, you know. 1:28:26.840 --> 1:28:31.280 Being number one in your hometown was like the Celtics, 1:28:31.439 --> 1:28:34.360 you know, or you know the Bruins or the Red Sox, 1:28:34.479 --> 1:28:37.920 you know, winning the series, you know, the crowd, just 1:28:39.320 --> 1:28:45.479 the energy from the crowd was just so unbelievable an 1:28:45.600 --> 1:28:50.960 undeniable and the power of the bond between us and 1:28:51.040 --> 1:28:55.280 the band. So I can't pick one, but those those 1:28:55.320 --> 1:28:58.400 situations which is so important to my life. And you 1:28:58.439 --> 1:29:00.760 know to this day people come up and you said, oh, Peter, 1:29:00.840 --> 1:29:02.719 you know I saw you back in you know, the garden, 1:29:02.760 --> 1:29:06.599 blah blah blah blah. And there was one time I 1:29:06.600 --> 1:29:11.719 thought about would be great on Christmas Day to visit 1:29:12.120 --> 1:29:17.240 Belle Ricca and play a concert at the Bill Ricker Youth. Uh. 1:29:17.240 --> 1:29:20.559 It was like a you know, a jail or for 1:29:21.600 --> 1:29:24.280 young men who kind of lost their way and were 1:29:24.320 --> 1:29:27.920 trouble or robberies or you know, got caught up in 1:29:28.000 --> 1:29:31.559 drugs and stuff. And we did several Christmas concerts and 1:29:31.600 --> 1:29:36.080 those were really really very pertinent, very important. I remember 1:29:36.600 --> 1:29:39.360 after the show, we walked down the cells, all the 1:29:39.360 --> 1:29:41.000 guys and the cells now, oh, put out the hands. 1:29:41.080 --> 1:29:43.599 Yeah it's Gyles, Gyles, you know, thank you for coming. 1:29:44.120 --> 1:29:50.080 And those were, you know, very spiritually meaningful dates. But Hometown, 1:29:50.240 --> 1:29:58.800 Boston Garden, Cobo Hall, Detroit, Cobo Hall, Pineknob, those were 1:29:58.840 --> 1:30:03.280 the shows that were just incredible. And we did a 1:30:03.320 --> 1:30:07.680 show in Germany Rock Pals and we came over and 1:30:07.720 --> 1:30:10.280 we used our marching bands. We stayed up all night, 1:30:10.439 --> 1:30:14.599 we played I think that's available on YouTube and just 1:30:14.640 --> 1:30:18.040 the crowd being in Germany to this uh, you know, 1:30:18.680 --> 1:30:24.200 large you know, in this large arena and just having 1:30:25.760 --> 1:30:28.519 being in front of these people that obviously didn't know 1:30:29.920 --> 1:30:33.439 all the lyrics, you know, but the interaction was just 1:30:33.760 --> 1:30:37.000 you know, overwhelming. So for me it was, you know, 1:30:37.080 --> 1:30:40.639 that thing that brought me back to the Apollo. You're 1:30:40.680 --> 1:30:45.160 seeing artists being able to rave up an audience and 1:30:45.240 --> 1:30:49.360 being ten years old witnessing the first generation of rockers 1:30:49.760 --> 1:30:52.439 and remembering as a kid, you know, jumping up and 1:30:52.520 --> 1:30:56.000 down on my seat like a bouncing Mexican jumping bean, 1:30:56.479 --> 1:30:58.559 you know, and having a you know, a Matron come over, 1:30:58.640 --> 1:31:00.880 sit down, you know, putting flash lights, jumping in the 1:31:00.960 --> 1:31:05.800 aisles and dancing. I mean, those Guyle shows just to me, 1:31:07.520 --> 1:31:14.040 you know, where something that will never replace it could 1:31:14.120 --> 1:31:19.200 never you know, for me, they will always be memorable 1:31:19.200 --> 1:31:20.040 parts of my life. 1:31:21.680 --> 1:31:23.960 How about a couple of shows or a few shows 1:31:23.960 --> 1:31:27.160 of other racks that you just can't get out of 1:31:27.200 --> 1:31:28.240 your head, blew your mind? 1:31:29.800 --> 1:31:34.920 Oh well, you know, sitting about four or five feet 1:31:34.920 --> 1:31:38.679 away from Bob Dylan when I one of the first 1:31:38.720 --> 1:31:42.880 times a few times that maybe he performed the song 1:31:42.960 --> 1:31:46.479 that nobody heard called hard Ring on a Fall, was 1:31:46.560 --> 1:31:51.040 pretty incredible. Seeing the rolling thunder review, you know with 1:31:51.080 --> 1:31:54.040 Bob many times. Seeing about five or six of those 1:31:54.160 --> 1:31:58.320 was incredible. Seeing Jimmy Hendrix jump on stage with the 1:31:58.400 --> 1:32:01.240 Jeff Beck Group with Rod Stewart at Steve Paul seen 1:32:01.920 --> 1:32:07.120 was pretty incredible. There was there's so many Bob I 1:32:08.040 --> 1:32:16.360 would you know be you know, they're just I go 1:32:16.439 --> 1:32:19.920 to shows all the time, and you know, seeing Van 1:32:20.040 --> 1:32:25.000 Morrison at the Music Hall in Boston or when we 1:32:25.080 --> 1:32:28.160 played with him in Symphony Hall where he'd bring it 1:32:28.200 --> 1:32:32.240 down a ballot so low where you could hear a 1:32:32.280 --> 1:32:36.160 pin drop and just you could feel goosebumps going that 1:32:36.240 --> 1:32:39.559 he could transcend. You know, here's this little guy, you 1:32:39.600 --> 1:32:42.519 know and just all of a sudden, you know, have 1:32:42.680 --> 1:32:46.040 the entire audience in the palm of his hand doing 1:32:46.160 --> 1:32:50.680 with every great artist you know did, which was you know, 1:32:51.640 --> 1:32:56.479 kind of have a transcending moment. And that's what I call, 1:32:56.520 --> 1:33:00.559 you know, the concerts that give me goose bumps that 1:33:00.640 --> 1:33:04.600 you know, I remember seeing Art Blakey the Jazz Messages 1:33:04.920 --> 1:33:09.280 with Lee Morgan on trumpet and Art Blakey calling up 1:33:09.439 --> 1:33:12.240 you know, let's call up the Queen and this woman, 1:33:12.760 --> 1:33:15.360 you know, a fur coat and this big blonde wig 1:33:15.400 --> 1:33:18.719 would get up on stage, she sang the dirtiest words 1:33:18.720 --> 1:33:23.760 I ever heard, and uh turned out to be you know, 1:33:23.880 --> 1:33:27.439 Dinah Washington. And you know, I didn't really know the 1:33:27.479 --> 1:33:30.240 importance of the people I was seeing, but the impact 1:33:30.280 --> 1:33:33.519 on me was just I would never forget it. And then, 1:33:33.920 --> 1:33:39.439 you know, seeing Jackie Wilson at the Apollo and then 1:33:39.520 --> 1:33:42.600 having the honor to induct him into the Hall of 1:33:42.640 --> 1:33:46.320 Fame was a really great honor for me. And to 1:33:46.400 --> 1:33:52.080 also you know, induct Paul Butterfield Blues Band, and to 1:33:52.120 --> 1:33:58.040 induct Jesse Stone, the great songwriter, you know. Uh uh. 1:33:58.320 --> 1:34:02.280 So there are a lot of great times, a lot 1:34:02.320 --> 1:34:04.840 of great shows. You know, if you asked me to 1:34:05.600 --> 1:34:08.600 two hours from now, I'll think of thirty others. But 1:34:08.840 --> 1:34:12.759 I would say with the Guiles Band, you know, being hometown, Boston, 1:34:12.800 --> 1:34:16.639 finally Boston Garden, Madison Square Garden, but of course Detroit, 1:34:16.760 --> 1:34:23.040 Cobo Hall and Pineknob. They were very, very very special events. 1:34:23.880 --> 1:34:25.400 So what did you leave out of the book? What 1:34:25.439 --> 1:34:27.160 are some of the great stories left out? 1:34:27.400 --> 1:34:29.599 Oh, there's a whole lot left out because I did 1:34:29.640 --> 1:34:31.439 not want this to be a kiss and tell book. 1:34:32.920 --> 1:34:36.479 And you know, I left it out because I just 1:34:36.520 --> 1:34:42.680 wanted this to be my Valentine to the people I 1:34:42.720 --> 1:34:47.320 got to meet into a music industry that I think 1:34:47.360 --> 1:34:50.800 what you were trying to bring up earlier, that has 1:34:50.920 --> 1:34:56.320 been battered and shattered and lost so much of what 1:34:56.560 --> 1:35:03.160 made it, you know, intriguing and interesting. And you know 1:35:04.680 --> 1:35:08.080 when you mentioned about the digital world, I mean there 1:35:08.200 --> 1:35:11.880 was the aspect of garage band and being able to 1:35:12.439 --> 1:35:15.080 you know, have a single and maybe get that single 1:35:15.080 --> 1:35:18.640 played on your AM radio station and you know, it 1:35:18.760 --> 1:35:23.000 become a hit overnight. You know, those kinds of things, 1:35:23.560 --> 1:35:29.719 you know, just aren't there anymore. But then somebody might say, well, 1:35:30.320 --> 1:35:33.760 there's a playing field that everybody has an opportunity to 1:35:33.840 --> 1:35:39.920 post the music. But the ocean is so big, it's 1:35:40.040 --> 1:35:43.719 like almost the universal galaxy, and so how to find 1:35:43.760 --> 1:35:48.480 that little teeny planet makes it harder, But there are opportunities. 1:35:48.680 --> 1:35:53.800 So it's totally changed. But I come, I've always and 1:35:53.840 --> 1:35:59.320 I still do to this day. What's meaningful to me 1:36:00.160 --> 1:36:04.680 is the face to face into relationships with other musicians, 1:36:05.280 --> 1:36:08.200 with business and the record companies, sitting down in an 1:36:08.200 --> 1:36:11.479 office and talking about, you know, what you want to achieve. 1:36:12.160 --> 1:36:16.080 And in book world, unfortunately, there was a change when 1:36:16.120 --> 1:36:18.120 I signed with the Little Brown there was a change 1:36:18.200 --> 1:36:20.200 and a lot of the people that I want to 1:36:20.240 --> 1:36:25.040 work with so that, you know, changed the dynamics there. 1:36:25.479 --> 1:36:31.400 You know, it's still you know, an important publishing company. 1:36:31.439 --> 1:36:36.360 But I tend to really like the one on ones 1:36:36.800 --> 1:36:39.720 and the characters, like I mentioned the Big m and 1:36:39.880 --> 1:36:44.080 Ahmed and Wexler and Irving Azof and Bill Graham and 1:36:44.439 --> 1:36:49.000 you know uh and the artists themselves, you know, Reather 1:36:49.520 --> 1:36:53.400 and you know just you know, Sparky and all these 1:36:53.520 --> 1:36:57.720 crazy you know managers and Peter Grant and just it. 1:36:58.960 --> 1:37:04.519 It was so rich for me and as someone who 1:37:04.640 --> 1:37:08.479 was trying to catch these in literary form, there was 1:37:08.520 --> 1:37:11.840 so much to choose from because these characters were really 1:37:11.880 --> 1:37:13.080 great characters. 1:37:13.560 --> 1:37:16.759 So where does this leave you now? No one's gonna 1:37:16.760 --> 1:37:19.519 live forever. We ever gonna see you on the road again. 1:37:19.600 --> 1:37:22.920 You're gonna record more music? What's your state of mind? 1:37:22.960 --> 1:37:25.160 And what's the play on? Well? 1:37:25.600 --> 1:37:29.960 I was hoping the book would bring attention that a 1:37:30.040 --> 1:37:33.720 CD wouldn't in areas where a CD wouldn't go, or 1:37:34.120 --> 1:37:37.479 recording that I say CD, you know, streaming as you 1:37:37.520 --> 1:37:42.240 say and stuff. But I do have a great solo band. 1:37:43.160 --> 1:37:46.760 But just before I released the book, I did a tour. 1:37:47.120 --> 1:37:50.599 It was called an Acoustic Evening of Story and Song, 1:37:51.240 --> 1:37:54.439 and I had two great guitarists with me and we 1:37:54.520 --> 1:37:57.880 did a you know, a sort of an evening where 1:37:57.880 --> 1:38:00.559 I would play saying and then tell some of the 1:38:00.600 --> 1:38:04.160 stories that are in the book and not unlike what 1:38:04.280 --> 1:38:07.760 Ray Davies did with the first Storytellers and then what 1:38:07.880 --> 1:38:13.679 Bruce later did with his book. And I recently saw 1:38:13.760 --> 1:38:17.519 Roger mcgwinn here in Boston and he did one man 1:38:17.680 --> 1:38:21.280 show playing and telling stories. I thought it quite interesting, 1:38:21.439 --> 1:38:24.240 so I might do that plus go out and tour. 1:38:24.840 --> 1:38:27.720 So music's still with me. But I was hoping that 1:38:27.800 --> 1:38:32.000 the book, you know, reaches and I really appreciate you for, 1:38:32.280 --> 1:38:35.200 you know, giving me an opportunity to talk about the book. 1:38:35.960 --> 1:38:40.840 But I'm curious. I first heard about you many years 1:38:40.840 --> 1:38:46.880 ago with your letter and your forum and this controversial 1:38:46.920 --> 1:38:50.600 guy that was, you know, talking about ticket pricing and 1:38:50.720 --> 1:38:54.439 ticketmaster and his managers and you know, all that kind 1:38:54.479 --> 1:38:57.520 of stuff. How did you get started. 1:38:59.120 --> 1:39:02.920 Trying to make it very brief like you, although I'm 1:39:03.120 --> 1:39:06.160 a little younger than you are, music was everything. If 1:39:06.160 --> 1:39:08.639 you wanted to know what was going on, you wanted 1:39:08.680 --> 1:39:12.760 to listen to the radio. People have no idea that 1:39:13.080 --> 1:39:15.040 working at a record car. You couldn't even get a 1:39:15.160 --> 1:39:19.240 job in a record shop because everybody wanted that job. 1:39:20.479 --> 1:39:24.719 And so I ended up going to law school because 1:39:24.760 --> 1:39:27.599 it's in a bad spot. I'd been sick. My father 1:39:27.640 --> 1:39:29.839 would pay for it. My father was a real estate appraiser. 1:39:29.880 --> 1:39:32.320 I had nobody in the business, so I said, at 1:39:32.360 --> 1:39:35.400 the time, the business was run by attorneys in the seventies. 1:39:35.680 --> 1:39:36.559 Growing up whereabout. 1:39:36.600 --> 1:39:41.639 I grew up in Connecticut, fifty miles from New York City, Infield, Connecticut, Fairfield, Okay, 1:39:41.680 --> 1:39:45.320 Fearfield between Bridgeport and Westport. So it's all New York media. 1:39:45.400 --> 1:39:50.400 You know, all the FM stations wr WNW. I mean 1:39:50.600 --> 1:39:55.439 that's sixty seven sixty eight. It was unbelievably fertile, and 1:39:55.520 --> 1:39:57.880 of course the shows you would go to the Pillmore East, 1:39:57.880 --> 1:40:01.200 et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And it was always 1:40:01.200 --> 1:40:04.000 a dream to move to California, which I ultimately did. 1:40:04.080 --> 1:40:06.360 And you know, I could complain about LA all day long, 1:40:06.400 --> 1:40:10.679 but it's really pretty great. And I was the only 1:40:10.720 --> 1:40:12.720 person working in the movie business who wanted to be 1:40:12.720 --> 1:40:15.400 in the music business. You say it's reverse, but I 1:40:15.479 --> 1:40:19.679 worked for these big English managers who still manage Iron Maiden. 1:40:20.439 --> 1:40:25.720 I lost my job. I started this newsletter and what 1:40:25.920 --> 1:40:29.360 happened was that I had a free subscription to AOL 1:40:29.400 --> 1:40:32.599 through Warner Brothers Records, and I was an attorney such 1:40:32.640 --> 1:40:37.840 when the Napster hit, I was an expert. And there's 1:40:37.880 --> 1:40:41.599 a lot of stories there. But you know your point 1:40:41.640 --> 1:40:43.960 about d Anthony is well take and I could tell 1:40:43.960 --> 1:40:47.000 you a million stories like that where the money is primary. 1:40:47.040 --> 1:40:49.920 It's like for me. I remember when Tom Petty was 1:40:49.960 --> 1:40:53.120 playing the film More and he was not at the 1:40:53.160 --> 1:40:56.800 peak of his career, and I said, well, what does 1:40:56.840 --> 1:40:59.439 this mean going forward? And an agent said, I'll take 1:40:59.439 --> 1:41:02.200 that Billy any day of the week. You know, I'm 1:41:02.280 --> 1:41:05.960 like you, it's how does the record hit you? What 1:41:06.160 --> 1:41:09.720 is the emotion? Trying to articulate that the only thing 1:41:09.800 --> 1:41:13.479 better than a great record is sex, and we're all 1:41:13.560 --> 1:41:16.760 in search of those great records. And the great thing 1:41:16.800 --> 1:41:18.880 about records You put a five year old in front 1:41:18.920 --> 1:41:22.320 of a TV and they could say, oh, plot wasn't believable. 1:41:22.760 --> 1:41:24.559 About the most you can say about a great record 1:41:24.600 --> 1:41:26.320 has had a good beat. And I could dance to it. 1:41:26.680 --> 1:41:28.880 And the people who we analyze it beyond that are 1:41:28.920 --> 1:41:33.080 analyzing a level beyond the people who made it. So 1:41:33.160 --> 1:41:37.960 there's a passion for the music, and you know it's 1:41:38.080 --> 1:41:41.720 grown since then, and you know, you talk about all 1:41:41.720 --> 1:41:43.800 these came the listen. I was with Frank Riley on 1:41:43.880 --> 1:41:48.439 Saturday talking about you irving. You know, yeah, does my 1:41:48.640 --> 1:41:53.360 deals too. These are all it's a different business and 1:41:54.040 --> 1:41:57.479 music is forever. People don't understand that we're not at 1:41:57.520 --> 1:42:01.320 a peak. Yeah, people are consuming MUSI, but what it 1:42:01.640 --> 1:42:05.000 was and what it represented in the sixties and at 1:42:05.040 --> 1:42:08.240 other times they have no idea. 1:42:08.479 --> 1:42:14.200 But but you know, you're writing this newsletter. But how 1:42:14.280 --> 1:42:15.240 did it get started? 1:42:16.560 --> 1:42:19.639 Well, to be very literal about it, I was working 1:42:19.680 --> 1:42:22.360 for a management company, and you if you had a 1:42:22.400 --> 1:42:26.760 successful act, the big thing was to hire an independent publicist. 1:42:27.360 --> 1:42:30.599 And they used to write these bios that were just terrible. 1:42:30.640 --> 1:42:34.519 I had to rewrite them. I'm leaving out a chapter. 1:42:35.400 --> 1:42:39.320 I was in college. First semester in college. This is 1:42:39.320 --> 1:42:40.640 Middlebury College. 1:42:40.280 --> 1:42:45.160 In pan and we played it. I know it will is. 1:42:45.160 --> 1:42:48.080 The only time I ever did this. First semester, I 1:42:48.200 --> 1:42:50.640 called up the teacher day before paper Ducic, Can I 1:42:50.680 --> 1:42:55.080 do something creative? Said sure. I got an a. All 1:42:55.120 --> 1:42:57.840 the prep school kids said, oh, you're gonna flunk. And 1:42:57.880 --> 1:43:00.400 I called my mother on the payphone. I'm going to 1:43:00.400 --> 1:43:04.120 be a writer, okay. I took the writing class. When 1:43:04.160 --> 1:43:07.519 I would read, it was like springtime for Hitler. You know, 1:43:07.640 --> 1:43:10.360 it's like, you know the people who listen this I wrote? 1:43:10.560 --> 1:43:12.559 You know. Then I finally wrote about going to an 1:43:12.560 --> 1:43:15.200 Alice Cooper concert at the musical on the Killer Tour 1:43:15.240 --> 1:43:18.479 in seventy two, and the teacher said it was good, 1:43:18.520 --> 1:43:20.840 but it needed a twist. I said, you were It's 1:43:20.920 --> 1:43:22.960 nineteen seventy two. Did you ever hear of the new 1:43:23.040 --> 1:43:28.000 journalism twists? Forget that? I never wrote another thing. So 1:43:28.080 --> 1:43:30.439 then I was down and out. I went to see 1:43:30.439 --> 1:43:35.080 this job counselor. She gave me this work book that 1:43:35.280 --> 1:43:37.600 was attached to a legendary book called What Color Is 1:43:37.640 --> 1:43:41.880 Your Parachute? You had to write six essays and she's 1:43:41.920 --> 1:43:44.640 brag about yourself. This is just for yourself. This is 1:43:44.760 --> 1:43:48.320 now nineteen, you know, eighty four, So this is, you know, 1:43:48.920 --> 1:43:51.519 an excess of a decade since I wrote in college. 1:43:52.080 --> 1:43:54.280 And I wrote those things and I got back in 1:43:54.360 --> 1:43:57.040 touch with the fact that I like to write. I said, oh, 1:43:57.120 --> 1:44:00.000 I'll write stuff and send it to magazines. I did that, 1:44:00.000 --> 1:44:02.479 and I said, this is just like the music business. 1:44:02.600 --> 1:44:05.639 You got to know these people. And I was eating 1:44:05.680 --> 1:44:10.559 a hamburger one night reading billboard. Billboard's been up and down, 1:44:11.320 --> 1:44:13.400 but it was in a bad space. Then I said, 1:44:13.400 --> 1:44:16.000 this is terrible. I could do a better job than this. 1:44:16.640 --> 1:44:19.880 And all of a sudden something clicked in my brain said, wait, 1:44:19.920 --> 1:44:23.840 aren't there computers and all this other stuff. So I 1:44:23.960 --> 1:44:27.320 bought all that gear on credit. And there was a 1:44:27.640 --> 1:44:30.680 direct we call the Yellow Pages of Rock, and I 1:44:30.880 --> 1:44:34.559 sent out the newsletter in eighty six, primarily with the 1:44:34.560 --> 1:44:39.040 intention of getting another job. But the most interesting thing 1:44:39.200 --> 1:44:42.880 was only the most successful people subscribed the heads of 1:44:42.920 --> 1:44:47.360 all the labels they could hear a contrary opinion. So, 1:44:48.400 --> 1:44:52.280 you know, there's fifteen years there and then the Internet 1:44:52.400 --> 1:44:55.519 hits and I'm in the right place at the right time. 1:44:55.960 --> 1:44:59.559 And the Internet boosted my career, you know, because now 1:45:00.000 --> 1:45:02.360 I started to give it away for free instead of charge, 1:45:02.400 --> 1:45:06.720 and you can reach all these people. Listen, this is 1:45:06.800 --> 1:45:10.120 exactly what you do. You know, you're doing it all 1:45:10.200 --> 1:45:14.400 day long. You're never gonna write something or make something terrible. 1:45:14.840 --> 1:45:18.840 But you can only create an eleven every once in 1:45:18.920 --> 1:45:22.920 a while, and it's usually because a thought came to 1:45:22.960 --> 1:45:26.040 you in the shower or you're inspired and you lay 1:45:26.080 --> 1:45:29.959 it down. You're always in search of that, as opposed 1:45:29.960 --> 1:45:31.720 to the hacks. People say I don't know what a 1:45:31.760 --> 1:45:34.920 hit is. Believe me. It's like Al Cooper telling me 1:45:35.080 --> 1:45:39.040 they recorded Sweet Home Alabama a year before it came out, said, now, 1:45:39.160 --> 1:45:40.519 did you know it was a hit? He goes, it 1:45:40.560 --> 1:45:45.519 was sweet Home Alabama. So the key is to try 1:45:45.640 --> 1:45:50.680 to get that, and when you get that, the people resonate. 1:45:51.360 --> 1:45:54.680 The only difference is there used to be a pyramid. 1:45:55.400 --> 1:45:59.439 Pyramid's been blown to bits. Everybody is in their own business. 1:46:00.160 --> 1:46:03.120 If you walk down the street, ask people name to 1:46:03.280 --> 1:46:05.880 Taylor Swiss songs, they can even name them. Whereas you 1:46:05.880 --> 1:46:08.800 know in nineteen sixty five, I can sing every lick 1:46:08.800 --> 1:46:10.880 of Hello Dolly because I was waiting for the Beatles 1:46:10.960 --> 1:46:16.679 songs on the radio, so and somedd you know it all, 1:46:17.040 --> 1:46:20.880 the same thing remains. There's a lot of great streaming television, 1:46:20.920 --> 1:46:24.400 especially for me. You're waiting for something that touches you 1:46:24.640 --> 1:46:30.200 in a certain way. And if you can articulate that, 1:46:30.200 --> 1:46:35.000 that's what people resonate with, and people are hungry for 1:46:35.120 --> 1:46:39.639 that resonance. They want something they can connect with. And 1:46:39.640 --> 1:46:40.840 that's what I'm trying to do. 1:46:41.360 --> 1:46:42.439 And where are you based now? 1:46:43.200 --> 1:46:44.879 I'm in Los Angeles, okay? 1:46:45.040 --> 1:46:47.519 And how did you connect with Irving? How is that? 1:46:48.360 --> 1:46:50.679 I mean, I'll tell the real story I connected Irving. 1:46:51.200 --> 1:46:57.680 This is nineteen eighty seven. I wrote about Dan Folberg's 1:46:57.720 --> 1:47:01.639 same Old Lang Syne you know song. Met my old 1:47:01.720 --> 1:47:05.680 lover in the grocery store and I immediately heard from 1:47:05.760 --> 1:47:09.120 Irving and he says, you gotta come in. I gotta 1:47:09.120 --> 1:47:11.840 tell you the real story of that record. He was 1:47:11.880 --> 1:47:13.400 running MCA at that time. 1:47:13.560 --> 1:47:16.839 Yeah, I was. I was signed to MCA at that time, okay. 1:47:17.240 --> 1:47:20.080 And I went in and there's a lot of hilarious stuff. 1:47:20.560 --> 1:47:23.479 Tom Petty was recording a solo album and sales were low. 1:47:23.520 --> 1:47:25.760 He said, the deal is so rich, I'm not sure 1:47:25.800 --> 1:47:28.000 he wanted the record to come out at all. There's 1:47:28.040 --> 1:47:30.000 a lot to pay him. And he remember the fine 1:47:30.040 --> 1:47:32.880 young Cannibals. She drives me crazy. He knew that was 1:47:32.920 --> 1:47:35.320 going to be hit, but he says, I'm going to 1:47:35.439 --> 1:47:37.960 hire you to help Jimmy Buffett have a hit record. 1:47:37.960 --> 1:47:41.000 I'm gonna fly you down to the Key West. Fly 1:47:41.160 --> 1:47:44.880 down to Key West. Make a long story very short. 1:47:45.680 --> 1:47:48.400 Jimmy had already cut the record. Jimmy, you know, you're 1:47:48.400 --> 1:47:51.400 a rocket roller. Jimmy had so much money he didn't 1:47:51.439 --> 1:47:53.960 need the advance from the label to cut a record. 1:47:54.800 --> 1:47:58.559 And then I felt really embarrassed about the whole thing. 1:47:58.600 --> 1:48:01.760 You know, this is typical Irving before cell phones. So 1:48:01.920 --> 1:48:04.000 I call his office in LA. He calls me from 1:48:04.000 --> 1:48:06.960 the airport in New York and I'm stowing it on. Oh, 1:48:07.080 --> 1:48:09.800 you know, Jimmy's a big guy. Cut all the recorded. Now, 1:48:09.880 --> 1:48:12.160 Irving goes, how big a guy can he be if 1:48:12.200 --> 1:48:16.479 he only sells three hundred thousand records? And you know 1:48:16.720 --> 1:48:21.040 that was nineteen eighty nine. But you know, there's been 1:48:21.080 --> 1:48:24.600 a lot of chapters up and down with the Irving. 1:48:24.920 --> 1:48:27.320 You know, you know, Irving Irving's you know, changed to 1:48:27.479 --> 1:48:29.640 Irving's much mellower than he used to be. 1:48:30.200 --> 1:48:33.120 I know, I mean I wrote him as a Irving. 1:48:33.520 --> 1:48:34.720 You know, I want to send you a copy of 1:48:34.760 --> 1:48:37.880 a book, and he said, don't, I'll buy it. I 1:48:37.880 --> 1:48:40.559 don't know if he did. You know. I hope he did, 1:48:40.600 --> 1:48:42.960 because I think Irving would find you know, some of 1:48:43.000 --> 1:48:46.479 the chapters, you know, interesting because you know, it's an 1:48:46.479 --> 1:48:50.720 homage to the period that you know, he was so 1:48:51.280 --> 1:48:55.080 involved in. So if you speak to him, please, you. 1:48:54.960 --> 1:48:57.760 Know, well I definitely so I'll text him after we're here. 1:48:58.680 --> 1:49:02.920 And but you know, the this is a crazy business. 1:49:03.439 --> 1:49:08.760 People hate people they have never met. Okay, what they 1:49:08.880 --> 1:49:13.600 don't know about Irving is how charming he can be 1:49:14.320 --> 1:49:17.240 and how funny he can be, and that he is 1:49:17.439 --> 1:49:21.479 really supportive. People just hate him because he's the big guy. 1:49:21.600 --> 1:49:25.360 The other thing about Irving is they do not come 1:49:25.880 --> 1:49:29.840 any smarter. I remember being at his house after it 1:49:29.960 --> 1:49:33.200 ended with Live Nation, listening to him what he was 1:49:33.240 --> 1:49:36.639 going to do next, he was creating. He is always 1:49:36.800 --> 1:49:40.400 one step ahead, you know. You know some of these 1:49:40.439 --> 1:49:42.720 other players. Listen, the guy's gotten into it with me. 1:49:43.240 --> 1:49:47.280 But Geffrin, you know, it's a completely different agenda. Geff 1:49:47.280 --> 1:49:49.840 then needs you to kiss the ring and it's a 1:49:49.880 --> 1:49:52.360 power thing. It's not that way with the Irving. 1:49:53.680 --> 1:49:55.800 No, you know, as I told you, you know, I 1:49:55.880 --> 1:49:58.679 knew Irving, you know, when he was you know, starting 1:49:58.720 --> 1:50:01.080 out and had the vision and did you ever read 1:50:01.600 --> 1:50:05.559 Fred Goodman's book Mansion on the Hill, of course, yeah, 1:50:05.560 --> 1:50:09.439 that was a good one, absolutely, yeah at the time, 1:50:09.600 --> 1:50:13.200 you know, because in the premise of it was that 1:50:13.400 --> 1:50:19.800 the cart the horse was the artist and the cart 1:50:19.960 --> 1:50:23.680 was following the horse. And then by the end of 1:50:23.720 --> 1:50:28.000 the book, the artists become the cart and the business 1:50:28.000 --> 1:50:30.679 people become the horse where the artists are chasing after 1:50:31.240 --> 1:50:32.320 you know, the business people. 1:50:39.920 --> 1:50:43.000 You lived through the change somewhere in the late sixties. 1:50:43.000 --> 1:50:46.040 First you didn't have to record in CBS's studios anymore. 1:50:46.520 --> 1:50:50.719 The deals were such that you just delivered the record 1:50:50.880 --> 1:50:53.960 and they had to put it out. They couldn't say, oh, 1:50:54.000 --> 1:50:58.040 what the single was, etcetera, etcetera. Warner Brothers, you delivered 1:50:58.040 --> 1:51:01.200 the record that came out. The change was the early 1:51:01.360 --> 1:51:05.880 nineties when Tommy Mattola's they started wearing suits. This is 1:51:05.920 --> 1:51:10.000 not a business, you know the cliche that I love 1:51:10.640 --> 1:51:14.200 is and I worked in this business movie business. You 1:51:14.280 --> 1:51:18.000 have a percentage deal and your own money. You walk 1:51:18.040 --> 1:51:20.640 in everybody's wearing a three piece suit. They have the 1:51:20.680 --> 1:51:24.240 accountant and he explains very slowly, while you're not entitled 1:51:24.280 --> 1:51:29.160 to money in the record business, you walk in the 1:51:29.200 --> 1:51:33.519 guy's got a gold chain around his neck, no collar shirt. 1:51:33.960 --> 1:51:37.280 You ask about the money, opens his drawer, pulls out 1:51:37.280 --> 1:51:41.920 a gun and says what money, and result is the same. 1:51:42.680 --> 1:51:47.000 The down and dirty style of the music business, you know, 1:51:47.520 --> 1:51:50.799 was eclipsed by these people who thought they were bigger 1:51:50.840 --> 1:51:51.680 than the acts. 1:51:52.200 --> 1:51:54.920 I know one person I didn't write about, Mars Levy, 1:51:55.160 --> 1:51:57.120 you know, who I had some interaction with, who is 1:51:57.200 --> 1:52:00.160 quite a character, you know. And I don't know, did 1:52:00.160 --> 1:52:02.760 you ever see that film that Richard Perry made, was 1:52:02.800 --> 1:52:08.519 called Slice Steak? It was Richard made the film. He 1:52:08.600 --> 1:52:12.519 was married to Goldener's daughter, I believe, And it was 1:52:12.600 --> 1:52:17.679 when Mars was being inducted but for the United Jewish 1:52:17.680 --> 1:52:20.439 Appeal as the Man in the Year, and it was 1:52:20.479 --> 1:52:24.400 a dinner and Mars had pres parado I believe. It 1:52:24.520 --> 1:52:29.080 was maybe not play and a lot of the Latin 1:52:29.120 --> 1:52:32.040 ax and stuff and it it but it's the movie, 1:52:32.120 --> 1:52:35.400 you know, see. And Joe Smith acted as MC, who 1:52:35.439 --> 1:52:41.400 you know could be Yeah, he was, he was. He 1:52:41.479 --> 1:52:46.960 was just so a kind, ethical and a brilliantly funny man, 1:52:47.280 --> 1:52:51.840 you know. Yeah. And I always enjoyed seeing Joe and 1:52:51.920 --> 1:52:54.400 his wife. We'd go out many times and That's the thing, 1:52:54.840 --> 1:52:59.559 uh Bob is as like you you know, you know, 1:52:59.840 --> 1:53:04.599 the streaming and the availability and all that. I think 1:53:04.600 --> 1:53:08.639 it's great because on one hand, but then there's that 1:53:08.840 --> 1:53:12.280 build and that search and that going from town to town. 1:53:12.600 --> 1:53:16.000 And I'll end, I'll end with this. You know. I 1:53:16.080 --> 1:53:21.280 was talking to a guitarist who's in my band, and 1:53:21.320 --> 1:53:24.559 he's a brilliant guitarist, and he also teaches sometimes at Berkeley, 1:53:25.120 --> 1:53:27.320 and he was saying to me, Oh my god, these 1:53:27.560 --> 1:53:30.880 kids today, all they want to learn is these power chords. 1:53:30.920 --> 1:53:32.800 You know, they just want to play, you know, either 1:53:32.880 --> 1:53:35.839 just Stairway to Heaven or you know, Black Sabbath songs. 1:53:35.840 --> 1:53:38.519 You know, it's just they don't understand anything about music. 1:53:39.360 --> 1:53:44.680 I said, listen, I said, do you imagine you're seventeen 1:53:44.760 --> 1:53:49.160 years old, you're growing up in someplace like Indiana, and 1:53:49.200 --> 1:53:54.840 you're learning saxophone and you're taking lessons and then you 1:53:54.960 --> 1:53:59.400 learn about theory and composition and sight reading, and you 1:53:59.520 --> 1:54:03.160 play and a band comes through town maybe already sure, 1:54:03.560 --> 1:54:06.360 and he hears you playing and he says, come on, 1:54:06.560 --> 1:54:09.679 and you're on this band tour and for years you're 1:54:09.720 --> 1:54:12.320 on this bus with other guys, great players, and you're 1:54:12.520 --> 1:54:15.479 playing with people on the bills, with Duke Ellington or 1:54:15.479 --> 1:54:19.400 the Count Basie Band or Tommy Darcy band, and everyone 1:54:19.520 --> 1:54:23.919 is this incredible musician with this vast knowledge and singers 1:54:23.920 --> 1:54:27.480 that know, you know, how to harmonize and breath control 1:54:27.560 --> 1:54:29.920 and the whole thing. And all of a sudden, one 1:54:30.000 --> 1:54:39.160 day here don and boom the world like a hydrogen 1:54:39.200 --> 1:54:43.840 bomb explodes. And all those years seemed, you know, like 1:54:43.880 --> 1:54:46.400 when they were carrying out all the great big band 1:54:46.480 --> 1:54:50.400 records at BCN, I couldn't believe it because I didn't 1:54:50.560 --> 1:54:54.880 think they realized culturally, you know, what they were dismantling 1:54:55.480 --> 1:54:58.160 in this quote, what they would call the American Revolution. 1:54:58.680 --> 1:55:01.160 I understood it, and I think you would understand it 1:55:01.360 --> 1:55:04.600 because where they were at at that time. But you know, 1:55:04.920 --> 1:55:08.320 the greatness that was, you know, the mastering, the Doug Sacks, 1:55:08.360 --> 1:55:12.360 you know, the recording studios, Capital studios, the microphone, everything that, 1:55:12.640 --> 1:55:15.000 you know, the arrangers, everything that took place in the 1:55:15.040 --> 1:55:18.720 making of these great works of art, which is totally 1:55:18.760 --> 1:55:24.680 dismissed for Country Joe, you know. And so you know, 1:55:24.720 --> 1:55:29.080 there's a great movie, very hard movie to watch because 1:55:29.280 --> 1:55:32.560 technically it's so bad, but it's an Arson Wells movie 1:55:32.920 --> 1:55:36.200 called The Chimes at Midnight, and it's based on the 1:55:36.280 --> 1:55:40.280 Henry the Fourth, Part one and part four, where the 1:55:40.280 --> 1:55:44.560 main character is Falstaff, who is one of Shakespeare's you know, 1:55:44.800 --> 1:55:48.600 sort of buffoons, clowns, very wise, and he's teaching the 1:55:48.680 --> 1:55:52.480 young Prince, you know, how to drink, and he's introducing 1:55:52.560 --> 1:55:56.760 him to prostitutes. And but the movie starts off with 1:55:56.840 --> 1:56:03.000 these two old men walking through the rugged terrain and 1:56:03.080 --> 1:56:08.880 one says to the other, Uh, it's cold, it's so cold, 1:56:09.200 --> 1:56:12.600 and the other one says, yes, but we both heard 1:56:13.040 --> 1:56:17.680 the Chimes of midnight ring. And I think you and 1:56:17.720 --> 1:56:21.280 I have both witnessed the Chimes of Midnight, and I 1:56:21.280 --> 1:56:25.920 think what they meant was these great glory days when 1:56:26.120 --> 1:56:32.160 things seemed far more innocent, seem far more promising. And 1:56:32.840 --> 1:56:35.880 you know, not to get into it, but you know, 1:56:36.480 --> 1:56:39.120 we know that there are dark clouds gathering. You know, 1:56:39.240 --> 1:56:42.680 if you study history, like in nineteen thirty seven, thirty eight, 1:56:43.160 --> 1:56:46.440 you know, I had relatives that fought in the you know, 1:56:46.800 --> 1:56:49.960 Spanish Civil War, which was a you know, precursor to 1:56:50.000 --> 1:56:56.680 what you know, the horrible you know things that came later. So, Bob, 1:56:56.760 --> 1:57:01.240 you know, it's great talking to you. Please connect with Irving. 1:57:01.400 --> 1:57:05.280 Tell him I send my best, because you know, he's 1:57:05.880 --> 1:57:09.920 you know, been in and out of my life throughout 1:57:09.960 --> 1:57:14.560 the years, and I'm not sure if he ever forgive 1:57:14.760 --> 1:57:18.400 forgave me for not, you know, dismissing the anthony and 1:57:18.440 --> 1:57:22.080 going with him. You know, time proved he was quite right, 1:57:22.360 --> 1:57:25.600 he was the manager. But then again, you know that 1:57:26.160 --> 1:57:28.120 life teaches us in strange ways. 1:57:28.520 --> 1:57:30.880 Well, you know, it's funny, you're not the only act 1:57:31.120 --> 1:57:34.240 who said no with another one who's come back to 1:57:34.280 --> 1:57:36.680 me all these years later and said, you know, God, 1:57:36.720 --> 1:57:39.280 if I only knew. But just to stay on this 1:57:39.440 --> 1:57:42.560 one point when people don't understand. This guy a friend 1:57:42.600 --> 1:57:45.600 of mine who's the chairman of Guitar Center, and he 1:57:45.720 --> 1:57:48.880 was walking me through the musical instrument in history, and 1:57:48.920 --> 1:57:54.440 he says, it's a mature business. In the early sixties 1:57:54.480 --> 1:57:57.240 it was all independent labels. Then there were majors. It 1:57:57.280 --> 1:58:01.960 was all branch distribution except for CBS. The business became 1:58:02.120 --> 1:58:06.080 more and more consolidated. There will always be music, but 1:58:06.160 --> 1:58:11.200 we live through this one time. However, it is always 1:58:11.320 --> 1:58:16.440 an entrepreneurial business. It is always somebody at home with 1:58:16.560 --> 1:58:20.160 an idea. So no matter how much direct there might be, 1:58:20.280 --> 1:58:23.120 whether it be Bobby Rydell and Fabian in the late 1:58:23.160 --> 1:58:28.800 fifties early sixties, today it's not easy to make it 1:58:28.840 --> 1:58:31.240 from A to Z and no one is helping you. 1:58:31.680 --> 1:58:35.960 But if you do something unique, people are looking for that, 1:58:36.200 --> 1:58:39.840 and it's always some new irving as off. It's not 1:58:39.960 --> 1:58:43.600 like going to work for Procter and Gamble. So we 1:58:43.760 --> 1:58:47.400 know sixty years later we never got a new Beatles, 1:58:47.440 --> 1:58:50.040 never gonna happen. Are we ever going to reach that 1:58:50.080 --> 1:58:54.760 peak again? Maybe not in our lifetimes, But the Doldrums 1:58:54.800 --> 1:58:58.480 were in artistically. Listen, you're a middle class guy as 1:58:58.520 --> 1:59:02.360 I am. Jeff an Airplane build Graham Management, and they 1:59:02.360 --> 1:59:04.640 say whenever they made money, they just want to stay 1:59:04.640 --> 1:59:09.320 home and smoke dope. They spoke truth to power. Life 1:59:09.400 --> 1:59:13.880 is so difficult today financially that the middle class people, 1:59:13.960 --> 1:59:15.880 no one ever wanted their kid to be an artist. 1:59:16.800 --> 1:59:20.880 But today the people say, man, life is so hard. 1:59:20.960 --> 1:59:22.480 I got to get a job. I got to work 1:59:22.520 --> 1:59:26.320 in finance. So only the lower classes who are on 1:59:26.360 --> 1:59:29.600 a lark, who will do whatever people tell them to do, 1:59:30.840 --> 1:59:36.720 are the ones involved. Listen a record speaking truth to 1:59:36.840 --> 1:59:42.400 power has more power than any politician, any individual. You 1:59:42.560 --> 1:59:47.480 need a culture to grow that. But the paradigm always exists. 1:59:47.800 --> 1:59:51.000 Somebody captures lightning in a bottle. There's a truth in 1:59:51.040 --> 1:59:55.200 a record that is nowhere else. On that note, you're 1:59:55.240 --> 1:59:57.040 driving in the north Shore. Where are you going? 1:59:57.520 --> 1:59:59.800 Oh, I'm going to know as you're well, I might 2:00:00.120 --> 2:00:03.080 up to newbury Port or Gloucester somewhere up there. 2:00:03.080 --> 2:00:04.360 Well, you said you're going today. 2:00:05.160 --> 2:00:08.240 Oh, I'm going up to north Reading to record. There's 2:00:08.280 --> 2:00:11.360 a barn that I use. I made my last records there. 2:00:11.760 --> 2:00:14.640 I have an album that's about We would have been 2:00:14.640 --> 2:00:17.000 finished by now, but I stopped it for the book. 2:00:17.040 --> 2:00:19.600 But it's about I need to do harmonies, a couple 2:00:19.640 --> 2:00:22.680 of overdubs, and the mix is they're it's almost all 2:00:22.920 --> 2:00:26.440 mixed the way it's recorded, so it's almost ready to go. 2:00:27.000 --> 2:00:29.960 But a lot of my solo records, Bob, have become 2:00:30.640 --> 2:00:34.280 you know, well kept secrets. And you know I've done 2:00:34.680 --> 2:00:38.840 duets with you know, Shelby Lynn, Merle, Haggard, Steve Earle 2:00:39.480 --> 2:00:43.440 on these records. I've done with a great duet with 2:00:43.520 --> 2:00:46.960 Mick Jagger. You know, we nothing but the wheel. You know, 2:00:47.200 --> 2:00:49.920 there's some really if you don't have them. I some 2:00:50.000 --> 2:00:53.960 of them are not on Spotify or streaming because they've 2:00:54.080 --> 2:00:57.160 got returned to me and not being the brightest bowl 2:00:57.200 --> 2:00:59.200 by haven't placed them. But I'm going to in the 2:00:59.200 --> 2:01:02.720 next couple of weeks get that all settled up. And 2:01:03.440 --> 2:01:06.720 because the book was so consuming, I didn't realize how 2:01:06.760 --> 2:01:10.480 much energy it really would take. And then the audiobook 2:01:10.840 --> 2:01:15.320 you know, took about you know, about twenty hours of 2:01:15.840 --> 2:01:20.040 actual reading, and you know, they've become very very popular 2:01:20.640 --> 2:01:25.560 for people. That's a whole new business, that's very lucrative 2:01:25.600 --> 2:01:26.440 for book companies. 2:01:27.120 --> 2:01:29.160 Now, I just want to say, before I let you go, 2:01:30.040 --> 2:01:33.640 you're in the eye of the hurricane and you can't 2:01:33.680 --> 2:01:38.920 see what's going on. Writing is a lonely pursuit. And 2:01:39.040 --> 2:01:42.360 I'll write something, I'll think one of then I'll go somewhere. 2:01:43.040 --> 2:01:45.360 And they said, oh, yeah, everybody's talking about what you wrote. 2:01:45.440 --> 2:01:48.520 But BOS said, I didn't know. Okay, not that I 2:01:48.520 --> 2:01:52.600 don't get feedback. Your point about there not being books 2:01:52.640 --> 2:01:58.040 in the store, the book business so antiquated is just terrible. However, 2:01:58.400 --> 2:02:03.800 having said that, you obviously have no idea of the 2:02:04.000 --> 2:02:07.720 impact of your book. Let me be very clear I'm 2:02:07.760 --> 2:02:10.879 not talking about the people who read it. I'm talking 2:02:10.960 --> 2:02:14.920 about the press and the word of mouth. You have 2:02:14.960 --> 2:02:19.880 a higher profile than you've had since the eighties. You 2:02:20.000 --> 2:02:22.400 may not feel it because you're at the center of 2:02:22.440 --> 2:02:25.760 the high hurricane. But I'm reading all day long. I 2:02:25.800 --> 2:02:28.040 get email from people, Hey, you got to do a 2:02:28.080 --> 2:02:32.440 podcast with Peter Wolf. Okay, I get more about your book. 2:02:32.960 --> 2:02:35.400 I'm not blowing smoke up your eyes than anybody else 2:02:35.520 --> 2:02:38.920 this year. Something is going on. 2:02:39.400 --> 2:02:42.080 Okay, well, Bubby, I'm going to interrupt you say I 2:02:42.120 --> 2:02:44.800 do I really be taking your point. I don't feel 2:02:44.800 --> 2:02:47.920 it because it was, you know, this this thing that 2:02:48.360 --> 2:02:50.640 you know, the New York Times didn't even review it, 2:02:50.760 --> 2:02:53.440 you know, like it or bad, and so you know 2:02:53.880 --> 2:02:56.280 that moves a lot of books. I did this little 2:02:56.320 --> 2:02:58.320 thing with the New Yorker where I wanted to take 2:02:58.640 --> 2:03:01.200 you know, the reporter up to the you know, beause 2:03:01.200 --> 2:03:03.640 everybody talks about Brooklyn and show them where I live, 2:03:03.720 --> 2:03:06.760 where Dion live, the changes of the Bronx, you know, 2:03:06.800 --> 2:03:10.000 where the gangs were, all this stuff. And you know, 2:03:10.120 --> 2:03:13.360 we ended up at mcsorley's and drinking. And that would 2:03:13.400 --> 2:03:15.720 have been fine for the Guiles Band. You know, during 2:03:15.760 --> 2:03:18.680 a give it to Me times. But I was trying to, 2:03:19.040 --> 2:03:23.000 you know, represent Look, I'm a literary guy too, as 2:03:23.080 --> 2:03:24.840 much as I love rock and roll, and I can 2:03:24.880 --> 2:03:27.880 sit down and listen to you know, Carl Perkins or 2:03:27.880 --> 2:03:31.160 A Stone's or you two. I mean there, I can 2:03:31.200 --> 2:03:35.720 also read, and so I was trying to reinvent a 2:03:35.760 --> 2:03:39.400 different dimension. And so I don't feel it because, you know, 2:03:39.600 --> 2:03:42.760 when the book company tells me it's kind of weighing 2:03:42.880 --> 2:03:46.000 because new books are coming out. Like in the record industry, 2:03:46.040 --> 2:03:49.360 you have that moment where there's the release and you 2:03:49.440 --> 2:03:51.760 go out and you do the tour and you get 2:03:51.800 --> 2:03:54.800 on you know, blah blah blah blah bomb, and then 2:03:54.840 --> 2:03:57.840 all of a sudden you find less and less requests. 2:03:58.360 --> 2:04:01.320 And because there's a new bunch of albums coming out, 2:04:01.560 --> 2:04:04.440 the company is releasing some more albums than all of 2:04:04.480 --> 2:04:08.440 a sudden, if that album didn't gain a certain stature, 2:04:09.520 --> 2:04:11.480 you're yesterday's newspaper. 2:04:20.160 --> 2:04:24.440 Okay, the press always gets it wrong. I read that 2:04:24.600 --> 2:04:27.600 mcsor at Lea's piece. Okay, I understand your play. The 2:04:27.760 --> 2:04:31.720 great thing about the modern career is you are in 2:04:31.800 --> 2:04:36.280 control of your career. It's much harder to catch fire, 2:04:36.880 --> 2:04:40.800 so your profile is higher than it's been for years. 2:04:41.440 --> 2:04:45.440 In addition, there's only one Peter Wolf. There's only one 2:04:45.480 --> 2:04:48.040 Peter Wolf who had muddy waters come to his house, 2:04:48.160 --> 2:04:53.880 et cetera, et cetera. Unfortunately, the stories are eclipsing new music. 2:04:54.440 --> 2:04:57.560 Your point about you put out a record, you'll get 2:04:57.600 --> 2:04:59.880 some reviews. It's over in a day. That's for every 2:05:00.040 --> 2:05:02.960 but even the Stones their new record doesn't really get 2:05:03.200 --> 2:05:07.160 that much exposure. But you have this unique thing, like 2:05:07.240 --> 2:05:10.680 you're telling me, oh yeah, you did these shows. You know, 2:05:10.720 --> 2:05:13.680 these acoustic shows. We told the stories. Now in the 2:05:13.760 --> 2:05:17.440 wake of the book, you can build a business. That's 2:05:17.520 --> 2:05:21.200 what the New York Times will review. Okay, let's be 2:05:21.480 --> 2:05:26.680 very clear, this is not easy. You have to work. 2:05:27.200 --> 2:05:30.240 You want to put some stories up on social media, 2:05:30.280 --> 2:05:33.440 but you have headway. I can't tell you how many 2:05:33.440 --> 2:05:35.720 people I know from your era who are dead in 2:05:35.800 --> 2:05:38.480 the water. Some can't even play clubs because they can't 2:05:38.480 --> 2:05:42.640 get advances. Okay, it's just yeah, oh yeah, I remember 2:05:42.680 --> 2:05:47.000 that guy. Something is going on with you at this 2:05:47.120 --> 2:05:51.120 particular point in time. You have a beachhead. I am 2:05:51.160 --> 2:05:55.200 a pessimistic lass half empty guy. Me too, but you 2:05:55.280 --> 2:06:00.240 should be more optimistic at this point in time. The 2:06:00.280 --> 2:06:05.080 other thing you have to realize is nothing reaches everybody. 2:06:05.320 --> 2:06:07.680 It's sad to New York Times and review your book 2:06:08.080 --> 2:06:10.440 the New York Times. If I write about something in 2:06:10.440 --> 2:06:12.760 the music because I reach more people than the New 2:06:12.800 --> 2:06:15.480 York Times. I'm not saying that to boast, but that 2:06:15.600 --> 2:06:18.640 audience is reading me, not the New York Times. So 2:06:19.040 --> 2:06:22.680 the book audience, yeah, retailers, etc. They're reading the New 2:06:22.760 --> 2:06:26.600 York Times. That's not where your audience is. And it 2:06:26.720 --> 2:06:30.360 is not easy to reach your audience, but you are 2:06:30.400 --> 2:06:35.600 in control of that. Okay. You know, I don't understand 2:06:35.760 --> 2:06:38.720 why you're not on social media with little bits telling 2:06:38.800 --> 2:06:42.040 these three. You have an endless supply. You could do 2:06:42.200 --> 2:06:46.480 twenty on muddy waters coming to your house once. Okay, 2:06:47.560 --> 2:06:51.280 this gets people somewhat excited, and then you capitalize it. 2:06:51.440 --> 2:06:54.200 Most people are not willing to work that hard. But 2:06:54.240 --> 2:06:56.320 most people, as I say, are dead in the water. 2:06:56.400 --> 2:06:57.880 And you're not well. 2:06:58.040 --> 2:07:05.640 Thank you, Bob. And this truly was a treat for me. 2:07:05.760 --> 2:07:08.520 And I have to tell you I was very nervous, 2:07:09.040 --> 2:07:12.880 uh doing this, really really nervous. There's a gentleman Steve 2:07:13.040 --> 2:07:16.040 Leeds and you gotta do Bob you got. And there's 2:07:16.040 --> 2:07:20.040 a fellow David Bieber, who used to do the art, 2:07:20.440 --> 2:07:25.840 the creative stuff for the Phoenix magazine and the alternative 2:07:25.920 --> 2:07:29.640 rock station up in the Salem forget the call letters. 2:07:30.240 --> 2:07:33.240 And David from day one read your music, you know, 2:07:33.280 --> 2:07:37.120 your your letters, and he just was would send you know, 2:07:37.480 --> 2:07:38.960 he would bring to me, he would send me. He 2:07:39.080 --> 2:07:41.520 just thought that they were the bee's knees. And David 2:07:42.040 --> 2:07:44.360 is one of my closest friends and one of my 2:07:44.400 --> 2:07:47.560 brightest friends. And he just took to you, still takes 2:07:47.600 --> 2:07:50.120 to you, you know. And he said, if you don't 2:07:50.120 --> 2:07:53.360 do Bob Show, you're just like insane. I said, well, 2:07:53.440 --> 2:07:56.360 it's it's industry. I don't really want to talk, Peter. 2:07:56.680 --> 2:08:01.320 Just do Bob Show, you know. And I was really nervous. Bob, 2:08:01.360 --> 2:08:05.400 and I really thank you because you know, you talked 2:08:05.440 --> 2:08:08.200 about the things or you asked me about the things 2:08:08.240 --> 2:08:12.600 I wanted to do, and plus just the ease that 2:08:12.720 --> 2:08:16.640 you have made it. Maybe I you know, don't stop 2:08:16.680 --> 2:08:18.680 me talking. I'll tell you everything. I know. Maybe I 2:08:18.800 --> 2:08:24.040 yact too much, but your last words to me, I 2:08:24.320 --> 2:08:28.640 got to tell you I am in a very bad funk, 2:08:28.800 --> 2:08:31.440 because you know, I work so hard to try to 2:08:31.800 --> 2:08:34.320 get this thing, and people like Frank Riley. I don't 2:08:34.320 --> 2:08:37.240 know what your relationship is with him. You know, he's 2:08:37.320 --> 2:08:42.120 one of the last of the you know, greatue believers. Yeah, 2:08:42.200 --> 2:08:45.880 true believers, and you know, like Don Law who you know, 2:08:46.240 --> 2:08:50.160 live Nation. Frank Riley's my favorite agent because he fucking 2:08:50.280 --> 2:08:53.360 cares about his acts, you know, and you know I 2:08:53.440 --> 2:08:56.280 drive him crazy, but he puts up with it only 2:08:56.320 --> 2:09:00.600 because you know in particular about what I want to do. 2:09:01.560 --> 2:09:05.400 And I think you appreciate that. And I thank you 2:09:05.440 --> 2:09:08.960 for giving me this forum. And please let's stay in 2:09:09.040 --> 2:09:13.240 touch or I'd value that. And if you can see 2:09:13.280 --> 2:09:15.640 if Irving got the book. If not, I will go. 2:09:15.840 --> 2:09:17.960 About a text him when we're off. But I'm gonna 2:09:17.960 --> 2:09:20.320 tell you one more thing and then I'm gonna go. Okay, 2:09:20.440 --> 2:09:24.160 like on that record, I'm talking to you trying to 2:09:24.200 --> 2:09:28.080 figure out who you are. Okay, you're a guy from 2:09:28.160 --> 2:09:31.240 the Bronx. You wonder sell it, but you went to 2:09:31.280 --> 2:09:33.840 the High School of Music and Art. You're obviously a 2:09:33.920 --> 2:09:37.480 sharp guy. Okay, you had this left field for a 2:09:37.640 --> 2:09:43.800 rocker relationship with Faye Dunaway. You have these hit records, 2:09:44.200 --> 2:09:47.880 You're living in Boston, and then you tell all these 2:09:47.920 --> 2:09:52.200 stories about these people come into your house. Listen, I've 2:09:52.200 --> 2:09:55.440 been around rock stars enough to know everybody has a 2:09:55.480 --> 2:10:01.160 different style, and now I realize what it is. No 2:10:01.200 --> 2:10:05.000 one ever asked me about me sit there and ask her. 2:10:05.040 --> 2:10:09.360 I talked really fast. You were curious and interested. That 2:10:09.520 --> 2:10:13.520 is obviously the magic. It's not because you know you 2:10:13.600 --> 2:10:18.800 can do the the WBCM late night rap, but if 2:10:18.880 --> 2:10:22.520 to hang with somebody. Obviously these people wanted to hang 2:10:22.560 --> 2:10:24.400 with you, especially as musicians. 2:10:24.440 --> 2:10:27.680 You know, I didn't go on usually I researched, you know, 2:10:28.120 --> 2:10:31.440 uh and but I but I knew your name for 2:10:31.520 --> 2:10:34.560 so long and the people that are respected, But I 2:10:34.600 --> 2:10:37.360 wanted to hear from you. But I guess it's like 2:10:37.440 --> 2:10:39.560 the book. You would be a character in the book. 2:10:39.680 --> 2:10:42.480 Had we if I was out in la you know, 2:10:42.800 --> 2:10:45.640 doing the La Time Book Festival, I mean we would 2:10:45.680 --> 2:10:47.920 have you know, hooked up and had a dinner. You know, 2:10:48.040 --> 2:10:51.280 maybe would have dragged, you know, irving to Dan Tannis, 2:10:51.320 --> 2:10:53.760 where I used to out, you know, you know, with 2:10:53.840 --> 2:10:57.160 Henley and No. But I'm curious, you know, just as 2:10:57.160 --> 2:11:02.280 an artist, you know, you've created this you know platform 2:11:02.760 --> 2:11:05.840 in a time where so many people have tried, and 2:11:05.880 --> 2:11:09.000 you went from just like a recording artist, from vinyl 2:11:09.400 --> 2:11:13.000 into digital, you know, from vinyl into CD and now 2:11:13.040 --> 2:11:16.840 you're on the computer and everybody's talking about it. And I, 2:11:16.840 --> 2:11:21.960 I am telling you, I was very nervous, I mean, 2:11:22.000 --> 2:11:23.920 and then oh god, one thirty am I going to 2:11:23.960 --> 2:11:26.160 be in shape? I'm gonna be because you know, so 2:11:26.320 --> 2:11:30.240 many people I respect have great respect for you and 2:11:31.160 --> 2:11:35.160 I it was a mystery to me of how I 2:11:35.240 --> 2:11:38.200 knew the newsletter, but how did it start? I didn't know. 2:11:38.280 --> 2:11:40.160 I mean, so I'm just curious. And that's I guess 2:11:40.480 --> 2:11:43.360 the motivation of the book. How did Muddy you know, 2:11:43.440 --> 2:11:47.240 become a musician or you know talking toreth about you 2:11:47.280 --> 2:11:50.240 know stuff. When you ask what I left out? You know, 2:11:51.120 --> 2:11:53.320 I left out more of what you told me about 2:11:53.360 --> 2:11:56.600 Sam Cook and other things and you know, stones behind 2:11:56.600 --> 2:11:59.120 closed doors because I didn't want it to be kiss 2:11:59.160 --> 2:12:04.720 and tell my and I admire you because somehow I 2:12:04.760 --> 2:12:08.720 am probably in one of the most depressed states I've 2:12:08.720 --> 2:12:13.040 been in because feeling that this book is not achieving 2:12:13.080 --> 2:12:15.800 it And you may have picked it up, but just 2:12:15.920 --> 2:12:21.839 your words were so encouraging it. As you say with Irving, 2:12:21.960 --> 2:12:25.800 there's a kind of bond that happens. It's a mystical thing. 2:12:26.240 --> 2:12:30.280 It's like it's like I remember hearing Elvis Presley coming 2:12:30.320 --> 2:12:32.440 from a window in the Bronx and I ran to 2:12:32.520 --> 2:12:36.640 the record store to buy that song about being in 2:12:36.720 --> 2:12:40.200 a hotel, and you know, and it was heartbreak Hotel. 2:12:40.280 --> 2:12:40.920 I had to have it. 2:12:41.360 --> 2:12:44.240 You know, I'm first hearing Bob Dylan behind the curtain. 2:12:45.040 --> 2:12:48.400 I had to have more of that voice. It was mystical. 2:12:49.000 --> 2:12:53.320 And so, you know, I appreciate this afternoon, and I 2:12:53.320 --> 2:12:55.480 appreciate your words. I hope you're right. 2:12:56.920 --> 2:12:58.800 Well, you know, as I say, there's hard working for it. 2:12:58.800 --> 2:13:00.600 I'm gonna leave it with one or review story and 2:13:00.640 --> 2:13:05.440 then we can go. So before COVID, they had these 2:13:05.480 --> 2:13:10.800 big concerts at Dodger Stadium and they had three acts 2:13:10.840 --> 2:13:12.960 on one day and three acts on the other day. 2:13:12.960 --> 2:13:15.080 The headline on the first day was the Eagles. Headliner 2:13:15.200 --> 2:13:17.520 on the second day was Fleet with mac This was 2:13:17.560 --> 2:13:20.920 the first show with Vince Gill And I'm talking to 2:13:20.960 --> 2:13:24.640 Irving the next day and I said, what did Henley think? 2:13:25.600 --> 2:13:29.360 And he started talking about the monitors William during this song, 2:13:29.480 --> 2:13:34.000 the monitor mix was little off whatever, and I said, 2:13:34.080 --> 2:13:37.560 I heard it, but I guarantee you the average person 2:13:37.560 --> 2:13:40.440 didn't hear it, and Irving looks at me goes, it's 2:13:40.480 --> 2:13:44.120 the little things like that make the difference between great 2:13:44.280 --> 2:13:49.320 and everything else. You're talking about being particular, that is 2:13:49.440 --> 2:13:53.360 what makes you unique an individual. Someone says, I don't 2:13:53.400 --> 2:13:55.840 want to be an asshole, but it's got to. 2:13:55.880 --> 2:14:01.440 Be like this because I know, well, I want you 2:14:01.520 --> 2:14:04.560 to be my promotion man and go in or my manager, 2:14:04.640 --> 2:14:07.000 to go into the book company and tell him that's 2:14:07.040 --> 2:14:10.920 why he's driving you all crazy, because you know, we 2:14:10.920 --> 2:14:12.680 want it done that way. And I think that's the 2:14:12.720 --> 2:14:16.320 thing about Irving where Don and Glenn they were, you know, 2:14:16.480 --> 2:14:20.040 they were so obsessive, I mean, punching in vowels, you know, 2:14:20.200 --> 2:14:23.400 with the simsic And I remember being with Don when 2:14:23.440 --> 2:14:26.200 Axel Rose was doing a duet, you know, and how 2:14:26.360 --> 2:14:30.840 you know particular Don was and you know, yeah, it's 2:14:30.880 --> 2:14:35.000 it's that wonderful world that we're we're in and there 2:14:35.040 --> 2:14:37.680 ain't nothing that's going to drag us out, Bob. So 2:14:38.800 --> 2:14:41.640 may this be to quote a movie that I'm sure 2:14:41.720 --> 2:14:44.600 is a favorite of both of ours. May this be 2:14:44.760 --> 2:14:47.560 the beginning of a long, long friendship. 2:14:48.720 --> 2:14:51.200 And I'll leave you with Norman Lee or what he 2:14:51.280 --> 2:14:53.040 used to say whenever you were with him at a 2:14:53.120 --> 2:14:56.920 party you always said when he left, to be continued. 2:14:56.800 --> 2:14:59.440 Ah, I'm with you, Thank you, Bob. 2:14:59.240 --> 2:15:03.240 It Okay, that's been the great Peter Wolf. Till next time. 2:15:03.600 --> 2:15:04.840 This is Bob left, said 2:15:26.520 --> 2:15:26.640 Sh