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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Search Podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is Peter Woolf, who's got a new

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Speaker 1: book reading on the movie. Peter, why now, why finally

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Speaker 1: run in memoir?

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Speaker 2: Well, Bob, first of all, thank you for having me on.

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Speaker 2: And I've you know, followed you heard about your newsletter

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Speaker 2: for years, all the UH controversies that you've started and

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Speaker 2: UH people have followed. So I am glad to be

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Speaker 2: sharing some time with you and meeting you. But the

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Speaker 2: reason for your question why now? What would happen was

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Speaker 2: I would always be backstage or invited to a dinner

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Speaker 2: or something, and you know, you'd have a glass or

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Speaker 2: two and start telling worries and people would always say, Peter,

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Speaker 2: you should write a book. And I was about to

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Speaker 2: release the new CD. It was about eighty percent done.

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Speaker 2: Now I thought, you know, if I released this now

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Speaker 2: in about two weeks, it will be in the ether.

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Speaker 2: And what could I do that might have some resonance

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Speaker 2: and bring some exposure to maybe broaden my awareness of

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Speaker 2: the solo work I've done. And the idea came, this

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Speaker 2: might be the right time where things are at right

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Speaker 2: now to actually write the book. And so in designing

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Speaker 2: that I decided, you know, there's a lot every musician

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Speaker 2: seems to be writing a book, and you know a

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Speaker 2: lot of them, not all of them, but a lot

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Speaker 2: of them are that cookie cutter type where I was,

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Speaker 2: you know, when I was born and blah blah blah blah,

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Speaker 2: I start got my first guitar, and then when I

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Speaker 2: saw either Elvis or depending on the age, the Beatles

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Speaker 2: on Ed Sullivan, blah blah blah blah, and I joined

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Speaker 2: my first band, and then it just goes on like that,

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Speaker 2: which is okay if you're interested in that person. But

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Speaker 2: there are a few musicians books that are musicians wrote

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Speaker 2: that I found that were special, and I tried for

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Speaker 2: myself to create a special style of book, and by

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Speaker 2: that is I have each chapter that I wrote is

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Speaker 2: like a short story. It has the beginning, middle, and

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Speaker 2: an end each chapter. So I think there's about thirty

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Speaker 2: something chapters in the book, and you can go from

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Speaker 2: the first chapter or you can read the fourteenth chapter

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Speaker 2: or the twenty seventh chapter. And they don't necessarily they

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Speaker 2: connect time wise, because the early chapters start in a

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Speaker 2: time span, but each one is individual, so they're more

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Speaker 2: like short stories. And so I guess that's the reason

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Speaker 2: why I decided to spend two years. I called up

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Speaker 2: my great independent agent, Frank Riley, and said, Frank, I'm

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Speaker 2: going to take a step back to hopefully take two

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Speaker 2: steps forward. And he understood. And I was privileged to

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Speaker 2: meet a book agent whose name was Andrew Wiley. And

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Speaker 2: Andrew Wiley in the book world is quite a notable figure.

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Speaker 2: And as a book agent he handled people like Salomon

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Speaker 2: Rushdie and Martin Amos. And he handles the Philip Ross

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Speaker 2: estate and Saul Bellow's estate and Robert Lowell estate. So

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Speaker 2: he was well known, came from Boston, and so it

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Speaker 2: all seemed to align up together.

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Speaker 1: Okay, have you achieved your goal? Are you happy with

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Speaker 1: the results in terms of impact?

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Speaker 2: Well, yes and no. Yes, I finished the book and

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Speaker 2: that you know, it's sort of like one. Well, the

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Speaker 2: people that I admire work on a recording or work

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Speaker 2: on a project, and the first thing they want to

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Speaker 2: do is artistically satisfy themselves, you know, and if they

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Speaker 2: feel they achieve something that they're excited about, that's the

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Speaker 2: first step. So yes, I feel I I did that.

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Speaker 2: And again, I spent many years avoiding doing a book,

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Speaker 2: and so that I achieved. And what happened, Bob, and

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Speaker 2: you might understand this more than most, is that I

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Speaker 2: signed to Little Brown because they published some of the

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Speaker 2: books that I really love, Peter Gerlnick who's written some

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Speaker 2: of the great music books, the great Elvis Presley books,

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Speaker 2: Last Trained to Memphis, and Caroless Love and Nick Tosh,

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Speaker 2: who was a great writer critic. He wrote his books

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Speaker 2: for Little Brown, and Keith Richards and et cetera. Besides,

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Speaker 2: you know, they were a Boston based publishing company and

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Speaker 2: they had a lot of their stable had a lot

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Speaker 2: of great writers in it. So I wanted to be

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Speaker 2: with Lil Brown, just like in the early days when

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Speaker 2: I was starting with the Guiles Band, my dream was

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Speaker 2: to be on Atlantic Records. And so once I got

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Speaker 2: to Little Brown, they were very excited and I started writing,

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Speaker 2: you know, the chapters and writing the outlines, and there

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Speaker 2: were people there that had been there for you know,

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Speaker 2: twenty five thirty years. And then what happened hashet which

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Speaker 2: is the corporation kind of what happened in the music

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Speaker 2: industry when universals started gobbling up all the different companies,

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Speaker 2: all the people that I signed on to to be

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Speaker 2: with Little Brown were all fired, and so all of

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Speaker 2: a sudden I went through I think four editors, and

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Speaker 2: it was quite difficult because the people that were passionate

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Speaker 2: about your project were no longer there. And so the

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Speaker 2: book came out, and there's this thing that I was

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Speaker 2: unaware of called a Kirkus review, and that's for publishers

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Speaker 2: and bookstores and if you get a Circus review, but

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Speaker 2: if you get a Kirkus review and a star, that's

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Speaker 2: apparently a real good achievement. So we got that and

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Speaker 2: then reviews started coming in, and in a very quick

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Speaker 2: time the book ended up number five on the New

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Speaker 2: York Times bestseller List, which to me was, you know,

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Speaker 2: a great accomplishment. But then what happened is the company

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Speaker 2: ran out of books, and in book world, I think

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Speaker 2: books are like printed now in the Far East or something,

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Speaker 2: and so it took a good long almost a month

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Speaker 2: to maybe less, to get you know, books back in

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Speaker 2: the big boxes and independent bookstores. So I was working

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Speaker 2: very hard on promoting. And so when you get people

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Speaker 2: coming into the bookstore, and I would go into bookstores,

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Speaker 2: there were no books or maybe one copy. And then

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Speaker 2: there's always Amazon that has books but Amazon doesn't report

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Speaker 2: to people like the New York Times or the Boston

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Speaker 2: Globe or the Washington Post. So there was a great

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Speaker 2: lag period. And not unlike a record when you're you

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Speaker 2: know on you say, like getting on a Stephen Colbert

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Speaker 2: or fallon or you know, doing beyond Howard Stern or

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Speaker 2: your podcast, and you create a certain excitement. In the

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Speaker 2: old days, people go in the record store if they

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Speaker 2: didn't have the record, uh, you know they you know,

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Speaker 2: you kind of lose that moment and then there are

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Speaker 2: new records coming along. So I did achieve what I

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Speaker 2: wanted to achieve, but now it's been very hard to

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Speaker 2: kind of keep the book, the momentum of the book continuing.

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Speaker 1: Okay, are there books in the stores now? Is the

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Speaker 1: window passed or can you regain momentum.

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Speaker 2: That's something that I'm still trying to figure out, Bob.

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Speaker 2: There are books now in the stores. But what happens

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Speaker 2: is that in the independent bookstores so many new books

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Speaker 2: come out. There's different not unlike in the record period.

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Speaker 2: You have you know, your September release, early September release,

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Speaker 2: then it's followed by end of September, and then comes

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Speaker 2: your October release. So there's only a certain amount of

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Speaker 2: premium space. Like in the old record stores, if you'd

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Speaker 2: walk into say like Tower or Sam Goodie and you'd

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Speaker 2: see the cutouts and the you know, the the advertisements

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Speaker 2: for the recording, they last only for a certain time

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Speaker 2: until something new comes along. So I think losing momentum

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Speaker 2: in the book world is far harder to regain than

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Speaker 2: in the music world.

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Speaker 1: Okay, in the music world, as you referenced earlier about

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Speaker 1: putting a new album out and being in the ether

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Speaker 1: very quickly, it's totally different now. It used to be

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Speaker 1: some famous musician Elvis died, there was a limited amount

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Speaker 1: of product in the stories immediately sold out and you

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Speaker 1: couldn't we fulfill it for a couple of months, I

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Speaker 1: mean a couple of weeks ultimately, whereas now everything is

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Speaker 1: streaming an instant access. We have kindle in e books.

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Speaker 1: In the book world, print publishers have done their best

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Speaker 1: to sort of kill that, but without making that any issue.

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Speaker 1: How do you feel about the digital world in music

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Speaker 1: and the changes in the music world of distribution.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's a very complicated question because the uh, there's

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Speaker 2: a lot of segments to it. They're not to sound

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Speaker 2: generic or avoiding the question. But in reality, for me,

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Speaker 2: there's many positives and there's many negatives. And the positives

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Speaker 2: is that it's available, it's there now someone like myself,

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Speaker 2: who I wouldn't say I'm an audio file, but I

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Speaker 2: really enjoy hearing music at a certain quality, and the

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Speaker 2: compressed music does disturb me. That happens a lot in digital.

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Speaker 2: I have lots and lots of my records. I'm not

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Speaker 2: a record collector, but I have thousands of LPs because

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Speaker 2: you know, all through my life, I've never let my

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Speaker 2: records dwindle. I have the first you know, Frankie Lyman

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Speaker 2: and the Teenagers album. I have the first Elevis album.

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Speaker 2: I have the first Chuck Berry album, first Buddy Holly

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Speaker 2: album you know that I bought when I was eleven

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Speaker 2: years old. So I do listen to an awful lot

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Speaker 2: of analog. But I also have, you know, hundreds and

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Speaker 2: hundreds of CDs which I also enjoyed. So I'd say

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Speaker 2: they answer the question, there's the negative.

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Speaker 1: Okay, just going to one element at the point, the

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Speaker 1: book has got a lot of interactions with legendary blues

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Speaker 1: musicians and in the sixties, discovering these people was a

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Speaker 1: scene unto itself, somewhere in the phone books. Some were

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Speaker 1: working street jobs, et cetera, et cetera. Today literally everything

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Speaker 1: is available like it used to be a record collector,

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Speaker 1: you go and for years you look for record. Now

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Speaker 1: I you go online. It's either available or not. These

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Speaker 1: blues musicians in their music because now it is available

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Speaker 1: to anybody who wants to hear it. Can the blues

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Speaker 1: in these people come back?

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Speaker 2: I don't know what you mean by comeback, Bob.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let me be more specific. The roots of rock

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Speaker 1: and roll are blues. In the present moment, a snapshot

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Speaker 1: of the landscape of music is hip hop, pop in

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Speaker 1: country rock and roll were the Gules band those roots,

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Speaker 1: they're not primary in the market today. However, there have

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Speaker 1: been bands that have been rediscovered the doors decades ago,

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Speaker 1: led Zeppelin. Can we see a blues based revival the

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Speaker 1: influence of this music or is it, like jazz more,

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Speaker 1: a thing of the past.

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Speaker 2: No. I don't think it's a thing of the past.

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Speaker 2: And I think you know, Bob, there's many many bands

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Speaker 2: that still searching out and learning about blues. I know

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Speaker 2: in the book when I write about Muddy Waters and

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Speaker 2: how I got to know money, and he would, you know,

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Speaker 2: stay at my apartment, and we became, you know, quite

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Speaker 2: good friends. They're young people come up to me and say, man,

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Speaker 2: you know you brought Muddy Waters to life for me,

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Speaker 2: and they're they're in bands that are just starting out now.

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Speaker 2: It's true where I am based in Boston. Boston has

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Speaker 2: a great folk heritage and also has a great roots heritage.

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Speaker 2: I've never, uh, the term Americana seemed to have come out.

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Speaker 2: I don't quite understand it, but I mean, I do

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Speaker 2: understand it, but I don't understand how one gets defined

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Speaker 2: in it. But Boston is, you know, because of the

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Speaker 2: Club forty seven. It was the starting place for Joan

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Speaker 2: Baez and many of the bluegrass bands. And it also

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Speaker 2: had an amazing place a showcase for the great jazz artists.

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Speaker 2: So Coltrane, Miles Davis would always love to come to Boston,

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Speaker 2: and even people like Artie Sure would come to Boston.

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Speaker 2: And you had Berkeley School of Music, you had several conservatories,

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Speaker 2: Conservatory of Music more for classical but different you know,

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Speaker 2: uh horn players, classical horn players that all became jazz men.

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Speaker 2: And so uh, I got to see in small clubs

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Speaker 2: uh in Boston, Felonious Monk, Miles Davis, you know, Ama Jamal,

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Speaker 2: you know some of the some of the greats. And

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Speaker 2: in these same clubs later on it was Van Morrison

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Speaker 2: and uh John Lee Hooker and Muddy Waters and Otis Rush.

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Speaker 2: So Uh, Boston was a rich place. Uh. And I

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Speaker 2: think that if one is interested in a certain type

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Speaker 2: of music, uh, they will discover it. And the digital

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Speaker 2: world makes it a lot easier to discover it. You know,

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Speaker 2: there's that famous story of you know, uh, Keith Richards

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Speaker 2: and Mick Jagger knew each other as kids, but then

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Speaker 2: one day either Mick or Keith I forget, we're carrying

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Speaker 2: a record and they were on the train and one

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Speaker 2: spotted the best of Muddy Waters under one's arm and

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Speaker 2: then goes, wow, man, you like that, and boom that

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Speaker 2: rekindled their friendship because they were both blues fanatics. But

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Speaker 2: you and I both know that there was a time

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Speaker 2: when rock and roll in itself became outdated. And by

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Speaker 2: that I mean a rock band like the Jay Giles band,

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Speaker 2: a rock band even like you know, so many rock

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Speaker 2: bands were considered antiquated or dinosaurs, and then came this

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Speaker 2: music called disco, and disco took over the entire Billboard

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Speaker 2: Top forty basically, and there was no rock and roll

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Speaker 2: on Billboard, So one could have said back then, is

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Speaker 2: rock and roll dead? Is anyone interested in blues? Is

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Speaker 2: anyone interested in country blues? Is anyone interested in you know,

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Speaker 2: Carl Perkins, for instance, I was a late night DJ.

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Speaker 2: I helped start a radio station, WBCNU, and it was

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Speaker 2: a classical music station and an easy listening music station

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Speaker 2: before it was bought out and turned into a rock

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Speaker 2: and roll station. And it was one of the first

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Speaker 2: important FM AO R ALBAM oriented radio stations and had

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Speaker 2: a big, big following. There was one in San Francisco,

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Speaker 2: down in New York an he w, but we kind

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Speaker 2: of really hit the mark early on. And I remember

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Speaker 2: coming in one day because I did the I had

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Speaker 2: the wolf of Goop of Mama Tooth the show making

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Speaker 2: a niece Freezer bladlat Vithenian's got to come out, because

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Speaker 2: that's a rock and roll is all about Yamagama Guma

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Speaker 2: and I would do that from twelve o'clock at night

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Speaker 2: to six in the morning. And I remember coming in

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Speaker 2: one day for a meeting and they were carrying out

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Speaker 2: all the great Sinatra records. They're all the great, even

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Speaker 2: Roy Orbison's, and they were just dumping them. And I said,

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Speaker 2: what are you doing with these? He goes, well, we're

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Speaker 2: getting rid of them. I said, why. I said, we

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Speaker 2: got to build, you know, room in the library for

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Speaker 2: Country Joe and the Fish and this and that, and

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Speaker 2: you know, so there were to them. Uh, Carl Perkins

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Speaker 2: was antiquated, you know, Roy Orbison was considered old time music.

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Speaker 2: And the Beach Boys even you know, had a kind

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Speaker 2: of some did, some didn't. So the point I'm making

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Speaker 2: is that there has been so many transformations in music,

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Speaker 2: and disco was dominant. It was the biggest seller. You know,

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Speaker 2: labels were hunting after disco artists and acts, and you

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Speaker 2: know Atlantic with Chic and all of that, and Nile

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Speaker 2: and you know, the the Phillies, Gamble and Huff and

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Speaker 2: you know Columbia and it's just didn't it was, you know,

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Speaker 2: even motown. And then Slide came along and was one

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Speaker 2: of the few black artists on ao R radio, and uh,

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Speaker 2: you know, slowly disco faded and rock and roll came back.

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Speaker 2: Bob Seger came back, Joan Jet came back, Ario speed

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Speaker 2: Wagon came back, and you know, the Guiles band came back.

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Speaker 2: We didn't go away, but on the charts we found

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Speaker 2: a new placement because uh disco finally had its uh

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Speaker 2: you know time, and rock and roll prevailed again. So

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Speaker 2: with blues artists, they're there.

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Speaker 1: To me.

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Speaker 2: I think of them as the classics, like Dickens or

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Speaker 2: like even Faulkner, you know, the artists. You know, if

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Speaker 2: you're interested in books, if you're interested in reading, you'd

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Speaker 2: go to the classics. And if you're interested in new

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Speaker 2: in a serious way, not, you know. And I have

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Speaker 2: nothing against pop music, it's coming from a different place.

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Speaker 2: But for the musicians that I tend to admire, and

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Speaker 2: the musicians that tend to go the distance, they study

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Speaker 2: the art. And even as a painter, one went back

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Speaker 2: as far as the Renaissance painters, and then you went

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Speaker 2: into Breugel and you you know da Vinci, and you

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Speaker 2: went all the way up to Jiado Delacroix, and walk

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Speaker 2: your way up into the Impressionist post Impressionists, then into

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Speaker 2: Matisse and Picasso, Cubis, and you know, futurists, and it

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Speaker 2: just you studied all that just as if you were

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Speaker 2: a filmmaker. You don't just start making films. You have

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Speaker 2: to study the history of the art. So I think

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Speaker 2: it's a complicated question, and I'm probably don't stop me talking,

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Speaker 2: as Sunny Boy Williamson said, don't stop me talking, Bob,

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Speaker 2: I'll tell you everything I know.

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Speaker 1: You've been living in Boston for decades. However, you grew

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Speaker 1: up in New York and are quite New York savvy.

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Speaker 1: Boston is a college town scene as somewhat provincial. Okay,

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Speaker 1: why do you stay in Boston? And tell me the

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Speaker 1: difference from your eyes of Boston and New York.

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Speaker 2: The difference between Boston and New York. Well, first of all,

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Speaker 2: I grew up in New York and I went I

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Speaker 2: think what saved my life was I lived in the

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Speaker 2: Bronx and the Bronx if anyone knows about well, Dion

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Speaker 2: came from the Bronx, and Bobby Darren came from the Bronx.

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Speaker 2: Stanley Kuber came from the Bronx. The Bronx is a

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Speaker 2: special kind of place and to itself, and when I

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Speaker 2: grew up it was kind of rough and tough. I

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Speaker 2: grew up in a half Jewish, half Italian neighborhood. There

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Speaker 2: was you know, territorial aspects to it. If you were

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Speaker 2: in the wrong neighborhood, you got into trouble. And but

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Speaker 2: it was very rich in characters. And my sister, who

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Speaker 2: was older than me, danced frequently on a TV show

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Speaker 2: called Alan Freed's Big Beat. And Alan Freed started these

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Speaker 2: rock and roll shows called rock and Roll Calvalcade, and

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Speaker 2: he had him at the Brooklyn Fox, of the Brooklyn Paramount,

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Speaker 2: then at the in Manhattan, and also in the Bronx.

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Speaker 2: It came up to the Bronx Paradise and so I

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Speaker 2: would go and as a ten year old in a

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Speaker 2: matter of several months, and in one concert I had

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Speaker 2: as a ten year old who loved music and you know,

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Speaker 2: had to buy certain records. In one concert, I saw

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Speaker 2: Chuck Berry, Jerry Lee Lewis, Little Richard Screaming, Jay Hawkins,

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Speaker 2: the Everly Brothers, Buddy Holly and the Crickets, the Chantelle's,

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Speaker 2: the Charell's, Ed Townsend and joe Ane Campbell the Blonde Bombshell,

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Speaker 2: and I know I'm forgetting one or two others, but

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Speaker 2: it was just amazing and to see, you know, Chuck Berry,

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Speaker 2: whose records. I had all of a sudden, they're live

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Speaker 2: on stage doing the duck walk and Jerry Lee Lewis

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Speaker 2: jumping on top of the piano, and you know, the

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Speaker 2: Chantelle's singing maybe and you know, coming out of the

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Speaker 2: coffin was screaming Jay. I mean, as a ten year

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Speaker 2: old kid, I was baptized into rock and roll. I

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Speaker 2: became a fanatic. And you know, seeing these characters were

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Speaker 2: just amazing, and the talent and just young Frankie Lyman

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Speaker 2: who was a young twelve year old but must have

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Speaker 2: had the body of a young kid but was an

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Speaker 2: aged The things he did musically, how he could have

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Speaker 2: learned them at such an early age was astonishing. I

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Speaker 2: mean people talk about Michael Jackson, who was a phenomenal talent,

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Speaker 2: but Frankie, you know, as as great and maybe even

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Speaker 2: greater as a young voice than even Michael's. But there's

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Speaker 2: no sense to compare them. They were just both great.

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Speaker 2: So having that experience and then you know, getting to

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Speaker 2: see jazz artists at Birdland at the original Birdland early on,

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Speaker 2: and even as important as that, and maybe even more

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Speaker 2: important was growing up in New York when they had

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Speaker 2: some of the most incredible DJs. You had Alan Freed,

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Speaker 2: followed by Jock O Henderson who infected me with you know,

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Speaker 2: things like hop pop ba doo, how do you do?

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Speaker 2: This is the jock and his record Machene Man Hey,

356
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Speaker 2: Dadda d how boo, and he would just go on

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Speaker 2: like that and do all these rhymes and patter and

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Speaker 2: played great music. And followed by him was the magnificent

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Speaker 2: Montague and he would talk real low for lovers, and

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Speaker 2: he'd play things like Sam Cook and just all these

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Speaker 2: beautiful romantic soul ballads. And he was followed by Symphony

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Speaker 2: Sid and Baba Do Babe, Babe Babe Bobba Doo doo,

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Speaker 2: and Symphony Sid live from Birdland and Syphany Sid would

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Speaker 2: play and interview some of the greatest jazz artists in

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Speaker 2: the world. So as a ten year old eleven year old,

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Speaker 2: I was absorbing, you know. At night, I you know,

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Speaker 2: had right by my bed this big telefunk and radio

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Speaker 2: I had really low. I was just you know bond

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Speaker 2: I must have you know, fell asleep every night listening

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Speaker 2: to it. And I would even on Thursdays and certain

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Speaker 2: nights because of the difference between the AM radio band

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Speaker 2: and the f M radio band AM would bounce and trowl.

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Speaker 2: So on Thursday nights I would get things like w

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Speaker 2: w V a wheeling West Virginia. And I always love

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Speaker 2: to tell the story. Being a huge Evely Brothers fan,

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Speaker 2: I was listening one night to these gals, you know,

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Speaker 2: imitating the sounded like they were imitating the Eavely Brother's harmony,

378
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Speaker 2: and you know, I wanted to know who, you know,

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Speaker 2: these girls were that sounded like the Everly Brothers. And

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Speaker 2: when the DJ, who was coffee drinking, DJ Lee Moore,

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Speaker 2: he said, those were thus Stanley Brothers. I said, brothers.

382
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:57,679
Speaker 2: I said, that sounded like girls. And that was my

383
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Speaker 2: first introduction to bluegrass, and so New York culturally was

384
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Speaker 2: quite amazing. And then my high school was located in Harlem.

385
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 2: I went to the High School of Music and Art

386
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 2: because I was, you know, really since all I don't know,

387
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 2: since three four, I was always interested in art and

388
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Speaker 2: painting and drawing, and I went to the High School

389
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:27,439
Speaker 2: of Music and Art was located on one hundred and

390
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 2: thirty fifth Street in Manhattan, and the Great Apollo Theater

391
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Speaker 2: was on one hundred and twenty fifth Street. So every

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Speaker 2: Wednesday I made a journey a Mecca down to the Apollo,

393
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 2: where I saw a movie, a travelogue, the Amateur Show,

394
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Speaker 2: and then the entire Apollo Show, where I saw people

395
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Speaker 2: like Jackie Wilson, Billy Stewart, Eda, James Muddy Waters, BB King,

396
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 2: you did just you know, the Moonglows, I mean just

397
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:07,879
Speaker 2: I can't even wreak James Brown, Wreatha Franklin or it

398
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:12,120
Speaker 2: just the list is. And so being a young kid

399
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 2: seeing these amazing performers interact with an audience that was

400
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 2: alive and connected with the artists like being in church.

401
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 2: I mean, because I would say ninety nine percent of

402
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 2: the artists that appeared at the Apollo all came out

403
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 2: of the church background. So the artists were like the preachers,

404
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 2: and the audience was the congregation, and so their job

405
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 2: was to, you know, get that congregation worked up. And man,

406
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 2: you know when you see the Olympics jumping around on stage,

407
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 2: or Jackie Wilson, you know, doing his splits, and just

408
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 2: the you know, talents, it it was unforgettable and stayed

409
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 2: with me throughout my life. And so New York and

410
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 2: then also in New York, there was this amazing place

411
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 2: at the time Greenwich Village, which was like the Left

412
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 2: Bank in Paris. There was no commercial neon signs. It

413
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 2: was a gathering place for many musicians, folk musicians, jazz musicians.

414
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 2: There was great folk clubs, great jazz clubs. People would

415
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 2: play out in Washington Square Park on the weekends and

416
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 2: from all over the city would bring their guitars. There

417
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 2: was a place called the Folklore Center where people hung out.

418
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 2: There was the gas Light, and there was you know,

419
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 2: the Cafe of Go Go, and there was places like

420
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 2: where bands I'm trying to think Leslie West's first band.

421
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 2: I can't remember the night out where they appeared and

422
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 2: where the rascals and all these different people. So New

423
00:29:56,280 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 2: York was an incredibly cultural place. But Boston, being a

424
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 2: guy that didn't finish high school, I spent a good

425
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:11,480
Speaker 2: year hitchhiking around the country seeing my friends at college,

426
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 2: pretending I was a college an art student, because in

427
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 2: those days, if you look like a student, you walked

428
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 2: around at university. There was no ideas there, you know,

429
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 2: there's just you know, they just assumed you were a student.

430
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 2: So I spent a good deal of time traveling from

431
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 2: college to college. But Boston had so many colleges, so

432
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 2: I ended up attending. I was a student at BU,

433
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 2: I was a student at Harvard, and then I was

434
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 2: a student at Brand. I was just pretending so I

435
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 2: could use their art supplies and you know, sleep in

436
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 2: the student dorm or outside. And then eventually I was

437
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 2: accepted to an art school in Boston. I got a

438
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 2: scholarship to the Boston Museum School of Fine Arts, which

439
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 2: was quite an incredible, very conservative school where it was

440
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 2: six days a week. We started at eight thirty in

441
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 2: the morning and sometimes went to five o'clock at night.

442
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 2: And they had the same program that they the same

443
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 2: technique and program that artists were taught in the late,

444
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 2: you know, at the end of the nineteenth century. So

445
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 2: we had to study perspective, anatomy, sculpting, how to make

446
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 2: our own paints, how to just saw our own canvases,

447
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:38,720
Speaker 2: all the traditional aspects of painting. And once I was

448
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 2: there and became engulfed in that world, I also somehow

449
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 2: on one night, the art students were performing at this

450
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 2: art loft, and that's how I got into becoming a

451
00:31:56,560 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 2: performer from that one night and so from that pointing on,

452
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 2: Boston remained home because of school and then the bands

453
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 2: that I became involved with, and Boston was I think

454
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 2: artistically a healthier place because there were so many colleges

455
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 2: and so many clubs and so many opportunities for a musician,

456
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 2: and as an artist, you didn't have the severe competition

457
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 2: that New York had, So Boston seemed to be a

458
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 2: more comfortable place to live, cheaper place to live. You know,

459
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,479
Speaker 2: I was living in Harvard Square for next to nothing,

460
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 2: and so it just at that time was a healthier

461
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 2: environment for me to survive and artistically.

462
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,600
Speaker 1: Okay, In the book, you talk about signing to Atlantic

463
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 1: Records without an URN and putting out all these records

464
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 1: and not making any money. A few things there. You

465
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 1: do have a hit single and seventy three Give it

466
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 1: to Me. You say that Atlantic takes half of the publishing.

467
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 1: You say that you hire d he Anthony as your manager,

468
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 1: so d never renegotiated. You really never made any money

469
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 1: from Atlantic, and Atlantic says they've wiped the books clean

470
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 1: and they're starting to pay from dollar one. Give me

471
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 1: your assessment here.

472
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 2: Well, Uh, I was sort of representing the band. You

473
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 2: could say I was managing the Jay Giles band. Uh

474
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 2: and uh a funny story if I nate, because someone

475
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 2: who I think deserves the place on your podcast is

476
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 2: a fellow by the name of Mario Medeas known in

477
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 2: the music industry as the Big M. May I tell

478
00:33:57,840 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 2: a little funny story about the Big m we have.

479
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 2: The Big Am was he worked, was in the Air Force.

480
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:10,840
Speaker 2: He was came from Mississippi. Uh. He moved to Chicago

481
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:14,400
Speaker 2: with his father. Big Am was you know, this young

482
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:19,080
Speaker 2: black you know, lover of music. His father loved blues,

483
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:22,480
Speaker 2: became very close with Muddy Waters. And his father, as

484
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:25,400
Speaker 2: the Big Am would say, was a gambler, and he

485
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:29,359
Speaker 2: would have played craps and start card games and all

486
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 2: the great blues artists would be part of his card games.

487
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:34,919
Speaker 2: And so at an early age, the Big Am got

488
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:39,320
Speaker 2: to hear and see Muddy Waters, Hallan Wolfs Sonny Boy Williamson,

489
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 2: Little Walter and became emphatic. And then when he was

490
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:47,360
Speaker 2: in the Air Force, he got so into Miles Davis

491
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 2: and especially John Coltrane. And he was a photographer for

492
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,520
Speaker 2: the Air Force too, and he started taking pictures for

493
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:58,759
Speaker 2: an English magazine that was the equivalent I can't think

494
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 2: of the name right now, but the English equivalent of Downbeat,

495
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 2: and when he got out of the Air Force, he

496
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 2: would hang out at the clubs and especially go every

497
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 2: night went to see Miles Davis. And there was this

498
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:18,920
Speaker 2: very attractive Swedish woman that Mario became friends with because

499
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 2: they both loved the music. And Mario was working as

500
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 2: a bookkeeper in a meatpacking place and she said to Mario,

501
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 2: you know, I work at this company, Atlantic Records. Atlantic Records,

502
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:37,879
Speaker 2: that's where drawn Coltrane's on. Are you kidding me? He said, yeah,

503
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 2: I can get you a job there, Mario, he said,

504
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 2: he said, I don't care how much they pay. If

505
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:47,320
Speaker 2: I can get three records, I'm in. And so Mario

506
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:52,839
Speaker 2: becomes the bookkeeper in the bookkeeping department at Atlantic Records. Now,

507
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 2: Mario is this, you know, black fellow that's working in Atlantic.

508
00:35:56,680 --> 00:36:00,279
Speaker 2: And at that point, Jerry Wexler had all these great

509
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:04,760
Speaker 2: you know, Wilson Picket, Joe text, Reefa Franklin, Don Kove,

510
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 2: you know, all these incredible blues artists, and Mario was

511
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:13,880
Speaker 2: signing all the checks, even amite checks, Jerry Wexler's checks,

512
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:18,799
Speaker 2: all the checks uh for the entire Atlantic company and

513
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 2: their artists. But when the artists would come in Mario

514
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 2: would say to somebody like Salomon Burke with the picket,

515
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 2: you know, man, these guys are not really paying you

516
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:34,440
Speaker 2: as much as they should be because blah blah blah blah,

517
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:37,320
Speaker 2: and they're charging you for breakage and blah blah blah blah.

518
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 2: And then your European sales abouz is not showing up here,

519
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 2: so you know, actually they owe you X thousands of

520
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:48,239
Speaker 2: more dollars than blah blah blah. Well, Wilson Picket would

521
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 2: hear this and he'd go down, Jarrett, I gotta tell

522
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:55,880
Speaker 2: you, you know, man, you guys are cheating me out of

523
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 2: my you know, European royalties, that this and that that

524
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 2: you're charging me breakage. Your albums don't break they're not

525
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:05,799
Speaker 2: seventy eighth blah blah blah blah blah blah. Well, then

526
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 2: would come Salomon Burke, and then would come this artist

527
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 2: and that artist, Joe Tech, and finally, you know, what's

528
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:15,279
Speaker 2: where the hell are these guys getting this information from.

529
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 2: So he has a meeting with Ahmed and they uh

530
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 2: find out that it's this guy up and bookkeeping on

531
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:28,200
Speaker 2: the upper floor. This Mario Medeaz is telling his artist

532
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:32,400
Speaker 2: that he admires. You know what they're faird is. So

533
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:35,800
Speaker 2: everybody loved Mario and they didn't want to fire Mario

534
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:40,359
Speaker 2: because people would be upset. So they brought Mario down

535
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:43,880
Speaker 2: into Ahmed's office with Jerry and they said, you know,

536
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:47,799
Speaker 2: Amici didn't maybe you know, uh we love it, but

537
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 2: see you know we got to take you out of accounting.

538
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 2: Uh so you know where else in the company. Uh

539
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:58,880
Speaker 2: do you think he could be of you know, valuable?

540
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 2: And Mario said, hey, man, let me be a promotion man.

541
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 2: Let me go out with the band. Let me go

542
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 2: out with the young rock band and they don't know

543
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:10,239
Speaker 2: shit from Shaniola. Let me take them all around the comming.

544
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 2: I'll walk to the radio station with him. Man, I'll

545
00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 2: get him played. Man. And this was you know, music

546
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:19,880
Speaker 2: to Amit's and Jerry's ears and plus a lot of

547
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:22,239
Speaker 2: the bands that he was talking about were bands like

548
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:28,800
Speaker 2: Rolling Stones, led Zeppelin, who were blues lovers that really

549
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 2: never came into contact with many of the black blues artists.

550
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:37,480
Speaker 2: And so here was Mario that was, you know, friendly

551
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 2: with Muddy, friendly with Hell and Wolf Freddie and friendly

552
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 2: with Otis reading. You know, we'd write checks out with

553
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 2: Otis tells a great story of how Otis wanted something

554
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 2: like twenty five thousand dollars in cash so he can

555
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:53,359
Speaker 2: go up to the Apollo and flash all this money

556
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,319
Speaker 2: around and pay his band and cash to show all

557
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:58,759
Speaker 2: the other bands that he's rolling in the dough. But

558
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 2: the bank wouldn't cash check. Mario had to go down

559
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:04,879
Speaker 2: to certify that yes, this this you know, young guy

560
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 2: is Otis reading, it's his money, et cetera. So Mario

561
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 2: becomes beloved, and he's uh taking artists all around the country.

562
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 2: And there's this new artist called Doctor John who's coming

563
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:20,920
Speaker 2: out with this album called Greegree, and he's taking Doctor

564
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:24,200
Speaker 2: John up to Boston to w b C and the

565
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 2: radio station where I was working, and he was taking

566
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 2: him to the Boston tea party, which was the equivalent

567
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:35,760
Speaker 2: of the Filmore in New York. It was Boston's Fillmore

568
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 2: equivalent or you know, uh the Agora or you know

569
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:47,280
Speaker 2: Philly Larry Maggott had And so he heard these blues,

570
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 2: this blue stuff, and uh, Mary said, man, who are

571
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 2: these brothers? And I came into the dress room. He

572
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 2: asked me, who are those guys out there playing the blues?

573
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 2: I said that was us, you guys. He said, Holy

574
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:04,840
Speaker 2: damn man. He said, what label you guys on? So

575
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:07,759
Speaker 2: we're not on any label. You gotta be shitting me.

576
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 2: Hold on, and he calls up Jerry. Wesley said, Jerry,

577
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:13,799
Speaker 2: I got these guys here. Man, they're going to be hot.

578
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 2: They're hot on the pistol. Man. They places this Chicago

579
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 2: blue shit.

580
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 1: Man.

581
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 2: I heard him. I thought it was like a blues

582
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 2: band from Chicago. You got to sign these guys. So

583
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:28,120
Speaker 2: Jerry calls up a fellow that was big writer and

584
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:32,480
Speaker 2: Rolling Stone and also producing Livingston Taylor and some albums

585
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 2: for Atlantic, and his name was John Landau. And he

586
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 2: calls up John and says, John, you know about this band,

587
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 2: that Jay Giles band. And John said yeah, Peter Wolf's

588
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 2: a really good friend of mine. And three days later,

589
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:49,279
Speaker 2: John Landau and I are sitting in the office of

590
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:55,360
Speaker 2: Jerry Wexler, no lawyer, and you know, Jerry's talking to us.

591
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 2: Never heard us, but you know, bound the word of

592
00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:01,760
Speaker 2: Landau and uh, I guess made so some calls around Boston.

593
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:07,840
Speaker 2: He said, I'd like to sign you to Atgo Records.

594
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 2: I said at Go, I said, man, Jerry, we got

595
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:13,879
Speaker 2: to be on Atlantic, and so I don't know if

596
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 2: I could do that. So we called in a lawyer

597
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 2: and the lawyer said, Jerry, you know, this was all

598
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 2: a big bluff. I don't think we can put him

599
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:23,480
Speaker 2: on Atlantic. You know we we can't, you know, And

600
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:25,239
Speaker 2: Jerry said, please see what you can do.

601
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 1: Please.

602
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 2: Anyway, they handed us a contract that was very, to

603
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:35,240
Speaker 2: be polite, very antiquated, and you know, we were a

604
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 2: band of five six guys and it had limited you know,

605
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:46,520
Speaker 2: they were doing, you know, charging us for breakage. You

606
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:49,520
Speaker 2: know that came from the days of seventy eights, you know,

607
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:52,400
Speaker 2: when you know there was a certain amount of shipping

608
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:55,880
Speaker 2: seventy eights that would break and so, uh you the

609
00:41:55,960 --> 00:42:02,239
Speaker 2: record company it was it was very antiquated, and the

610
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 2: band was simon Atlantic, and we started touring. And in

611
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:12,000
Speaker 2: those years it was touring, and I'm talking about nineteen seventy.

612
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 2: In nineteen seventy, rock and roll touring was not unlike vaudeville,

613
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:20,839
Speaker 2: where you had an opening act, a middle act, and

614
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 2: then the headliner. And like in vaudeville, you'd had you know,

615
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:27,200
Speaker 2: five or six acts or seven or eight acts, and

616
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:30,759
Speaker 2: then you'd have the headliner closing the show and it

617
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 2: would travel from city city and so we were the

618
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:38,880
Speaker 2: opening act for almost two years, and I was able

619
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:41,800
Speaker 2: to get the band signed to I went down and

620
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 2: had a meeting with a gentleman by the name of

621
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:50,839
Speaker 2: Frank Barcelona, who was the who started Premier Talent. And

622
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:54,759
Speaker 2: I can go on for an hour about the importance

623
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:58,799
Speaker 2: of Premier Talent, but it was the most important rock

624
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:02,920
Speaker 2: agency at the time and had probably the most definitive

625
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:08,279
Speaker 2: rock artists signed to its roster. And Frank started with

626
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 2: Brian Epstein and then signed Jimmy Hendrix, and he had

627
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:16,319
Speaker 2: the Who and led Zeppelin and Springsteen and U two

628
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 2: and you know, uh, just you know, everybody in all

629
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:26,359
Speaker 2: the eras, and uh, after our second record, we kind

630
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:31,440
Speaker 2: of felt that we're still staying in the first slot.

631
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:34,680
Speaker 2: And we were traveling all around the country opening up

632
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:38,400
Speaker 2: for bands like Black Sabbath, and you know, just Black

633
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 2: Sabbath and Jay Giles had nothing in common, but there

634
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:44,240
Speaker 2: we were. And I remember talking with Frank and Frank

635
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:48,400
Speaker 2: suggested we need to get a manager and maybe that

636
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 2: would help, a real formal manager. And Frank at that

637
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:55,000
Speaker 2: time was close with a gentleman by the name of

638
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:59,239
Speaker 2: De Anthony, and d Anthony was managing humble Pie that

639
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:02,920
Speaker 2: was doing very well, Spooky Tooth. He had just managed

640
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 2: Joe Cocker with the Holy On Russell Mad Dogs and Englishman,

641
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:11,840
Speaker 2: and D came out of the you know, the world

642
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 2: of Tony Bennett in the Copa Cabana and loved the

643
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:22,719
Speaker 2: music world, and he became our manager. And in a

644
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:29,400
Speaker 2: long winded answer to this day, your question about why

645
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:34,440
Speaker 2: he never renegotiated the Atlantic contract is beyond me. Nor

646
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:39,200
Speaker 2: did we ever say, hey, D, you know, can you

647
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 2: renegotiate the contract? Because that's usually the first thing a

648
00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:48,480
Speaker 2: manager does. It sits down with the company and says, listen,

649
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:52,440
Speaker 2: I'm on board. Now you know I got this band,

650
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:56,120
Speaker 2: that band, that band. I'm tight with Frank Barcelona. There's

651
00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 2: no bullshitting around here. This band needs to get paid

652
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 2: aid fairly. Never happened.

653
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:15,680
Speaker 1: This late date. A, do you own the publishing for

654
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:18,399
Speaker 1: those songs? And B do you ever get a check

655
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 1: for the recordings of Atlantic.

656
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:26,360
Speaker 2: In this late They Noah, do not own the songs. Uh,

657
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:28,920
Speaker 2: this late they you know the checks that you know

658
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:32,439
Speaker 2: do come in. Uh, but let me put it this way,

659
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:35,879
Speaker 2: they're not checks that you're going to take a pleasurable

660
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:41,480
Speaker 2: trip on it's you know, the monies are We did not.

661
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:45,040
Speaker 2: We were in debt. The guys band was in debt

662
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:47,400
Speaker 2: from most of our time and we get out of

663
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:50,200
Speaker 2: it and we would work with you know, trucking companies

664
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:53,040
Speaker 2: and you know beg them to hold off sending us

665
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 2: the bills for three or four months. I remember the

666
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:58,759
Speaker 2: Claire Brothers Sound Company when they first started. You know,

667
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:01,400
Speaker 2: they didn't charge us for a long period of time,

668
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 2: and you know we repaid them. We did not actually

669
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 2: start being you know comfortable we're being able to pay

670
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:12,280
Speaker 2: you know, guys would have to take loans and stuff.

671
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:15,520
Speaker 2: We were not comfortable until we actually were signed with

672
00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:18,440
Speaker 2: a new label and that was EMI America. And then

673
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:23,200
Speaker 2: the book I explained how that occurrence happened and it

674
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:27,759
Speaker 2: was quite a you know story of chance how that

675
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 2: all came to be. So it wasn't until really EMI

676
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:37,279
Speaker 2: and we had three albums, Sanctuary, Love Stinks and then

677
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 2: Freeze Frame when we really started to be, you know,

678
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:44,239
Speaker 2: have the opportunity in front of us to really be

679
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:48,720
Speaker 2: able to you know pack away some you know monies

680
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:50,360
Speaker 2: for those rainy days.

681
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 1: So what are you living on today?

682
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:59,560
Speaker 2: Peanut butter jelly, some cantuna fish and no, I've you know,

683
00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:06,759
Speaker 2: through the EMI stuff. There's you know in there. We

684
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:15,600
Speaker 2: kept out publishing and so one uh, you know lives okay,

685
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:19,160
Speaker 2: but not you know, people always think, oh man, you

686
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:21,880
Speaker 2: know they know the Jay Giles band, and you mentioned

687
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:24,520
Speaker 2: the song give It to Me, Well, give It to

688
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:29,239
Speaker 2: Me was on its way to becoming a hit. And

689
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:34,400
Speaker 2: then I forget the f C C And then I

690
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:38,120
Speaker 2: believe it was It wasn't Al Gore's wife, but it

691
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:47,400
Speaker 2: was the very conservative woman that was lobbying Congress that

692
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:53,239
Speaker 2: lyrics and rock were becoming very lewde And there was

693
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:57,920
Speaker 2: a McCartney song, my Girl, she does It? What was

694
00:47:58,160 --> 00:47:58,680
Speaker 2: helped me out?

695
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:01,200
Speaker 1: My girl does a good Yeah, yeah.

696
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:03,839
Speaker 2: It does it good. Well, you know that became a

697
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:07,960
Speaker 2: huge controversy. But you couldn't mess so much with Paul McCartney,

698
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 2: but you could mess with the Jay Giles band. And

699
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:13,799
Speaker 2: then you know, we were getting up there, getting up there,

700
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:17,880
Speaker 2: and then boom there was a band on AM radio.

701
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 2: And I think I don't know if Abrams or whoever

702
00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 2: was in charge of you know, who was a big

703
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:27,360
Speaker 2: you know name and you had all the guys like

704
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:32,279
Speaker 2: this Scipio, and you know, all the different helped me

705
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:33,800
Speaker 2: out here well.

706
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:36,080
Speaker 1: Tip sheets, consultants, Indie promo.

707
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:41,400
Speaker 2: All the all the consultants. Everybody put a freeze, no

708
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:43,520
Speaker 2: puns intended on give it to me, and it just

709
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:45,919
Speaker 2: stopped in its tracks, but it was on its way.

710
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:50,239
Speaker 2: It was like next to Paul Simon or Montego Bay.

711
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:52,880
Speaker 2: It was one of the few reggae songs at that time.

712
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:55,480
Speaker 2: You know, most people didn't know what reggae was or

713
00:48:55,600 --> 00:49:00,920
Speaker 2: heard it. Paul Simon had Mother's Child, Mother and Child

714
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:03,919
Speaker 2: Reunion that had a reggae feel to it. But other

715
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:07,120
Speaker 2: than that, reggae was pretty unknown to most people. And

716
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:09,920
Speaker 2: this was before the Heart that they come came out

717
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:10,719
Speaker 2: and things like that.

718
00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:18,680
Speaker 1: Okay, d Anthony, you tell some interesting stories about a

719
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 1: rock festival in Pennsylvania. At this late date, the reputation

720
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:29,520
Speaker 1: of d Anthony is connected about the money first making

721
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:31,719
Speaker 1: Joe Cocker go on the road with mad dogs and

722
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:34,360
Speaker 1: english men and a cruk.

723
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:41,239
Speaker 2: What was your experience, Well, the big m Mario was

724
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:44,840
Speaker 2: riding in a car once and me indeed, and you know,

725
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:47,319
Speaker 2: d s it to me. You know, Mario let me

726
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:51,040
Speaker 2: tell you about management. The first job. There's three jobs

727
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:55,000
Speaker 2: that a manager has to do. Maaris was that he

728
00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:58,799
Speaker 2: goes one, get the money. Norrisaid, what's number two? He said,

729
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:02,080
Speaker 2: get the money? He said, so I can think I

730
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:04,840
Speaker 2: got number three. He said, you gotta your smart Mario,

731
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:10,719
Speaker 2: get the money. And that was the's philosophy. D was

732
00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:15,400
Speaker 2: from the Bronx. Uh, I'm from the Bronx. D was,

733
00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:20,320
Speaker 2: you know, an Italian grew up right near the neighborhood

734
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:26,160
Speaker 2: I grew up. We uh knew similar places. Uh uh

735
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:32,640
Speaker 2: similar restaurants. Uh. And when I met D, uh we

736
00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:39,320
Speaker 2: just talked Bronx to Bronx and I negotiated a handshake

737
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:43,200
Speaker 2: deal with D. And we never had a contract. We

738
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:46,480
Speaker 2: had a handshake deal. And I said to D and

739
00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:52,239
Speaker 2: somehow I bought. I said, look, let's get started, and

740
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:56,600
Speaker 2: I'm representing the band. I don't know. You know, you

741
00:50:56,640 --> 00:50:59,640
Speaker 2: can come and have meetings and you know, we're kind

742
00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:03,440
Speaker 2: of like democratic band. And but look, if it's not

743
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:07,239
Speaker 2: going to work out for you, and if we become problematic,

744
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:09,719
Speaker 2: why would you want us? And if it's not going

745
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:12,600
Speaker 2: to work out for us, why would we want you?

746
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:17,280
Speaker 2: So let's just you know, have a handshake and get rolling.

747
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:22,040
Speaker 2: And when for some reason he accepted that and for

748
00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:27,960
Speaker 2: our tire relationship there was never any you know contract.

749
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:34,800
Speaker 2: And d did do some very positive things for the band.

750
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:40,319
Speaker 2: First of all, he had this ability of gathering everybody.

751
00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:43,920
Speaker 2: He loved live acts. He saw the Gules Band, he

752
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:47,080
Speaker 2: loved the Gules Band, the energy, he loved Humble Pie,

753
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:50,560
Speaker 2: he loved Steve Marriott. Uh. You know, he tutored Peter

754
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:54,359
Speaker 2: Frampton when Peter was going solo, and Peter would stay

755
00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:58,560
Speaker 2: at his house and he uh, and so Dee was

756
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:00,920
Speaker 2: quite a character. You know, he would gather everybody in

757
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:03,239
Speaker 2: a huddle and have a whistle. Why don't you guys

758
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:05,440
Speaker 2: to go out there? And you know, just and so

759
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:09,799
Speaker 2: his first big decision was, I want you guys to

760
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:14,319
Speaker 2: make a live album and just record the songs. You've

761
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:17,680
Speaker 2: already said, d we can't go out there. We're just

762
00:52:17,719 --> 00:52:20,000
Speaker 2: playing the songs that are on our first and second

763
00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:23,560
Speaker 2: Atlantic record. You know, if we do a live album

764
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:27,799
Speaker 2: of just those songs, people are gonna think we run

765
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:32,080
Speaker 2: out of creativity. And back in those years, a live

766
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:35,359
Speaker 2: album was kind of a way of buying time. It

767
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:41,800
Speaker 2: wasn't accepted as authentic. It wasn't considered an authentic piece

768
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:44,200
Speaker 2: of work. I gues. Of course there's James brown Line,

769
00:52:44,239 --> 00:52:47,160
Speaker 2: but for a rock and roll band, you know, the

770
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:49,920
Speaker 2: Allman Brothers live at the film or you know, was

771
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:55,920
Speaker 2: an anomaly. Uh uh. But so we recorded a live

772
00:52:55,960 --> 00:53:00,839
Speaker 2: album and because d felt that our stage show was

773
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:05,719
Speaker 2: far more exciting and energetic than the recordings, and so

774
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:10,280
Speaker 2: we recorded our third album, Full House live in Detroit.

775
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:16,200
Speaker 2: That's I guess being re released by Rhino as a real,

776
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:20,279
Speaker 2: definitive aspect of the Guiles band, and it happens to

777
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:25,080
Speaker 2: be one of my favorite albums. And Dee was responsible

778
00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:27,799
Speaker 2: for the making of that record because there was no

779
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:32,280
Speaker 2: way that we would have ever for our third album

780
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:37,840
Speaker 2: ever think of recording a live record. We were in

781
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:40,080
Speaker 2: the midst of making another studio record.

782
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:43,160
Speaker 1: Well that is what you know. There were the first

783
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:47,360
Speaker 1: couple of records and that did gain you notice previous

784
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:50,279
Speaker 1: to that, you worked with Bill Simsick before he was

785
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:54,440
Speaker 1: a household name, worked with Joe Walsh, eventually works with

786
00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:56,480
Speaker 1: the Eagles. How'd you get hooked up with Bill Simsick?

787
00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:03,480
Speaker 2: Our first ja Jay Gill's band, our first album I

788
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:06,560
Speaker 2: think was done in about eighteen days, mixed and everything,

789
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:10,719
Speaker 2: you know. And we were working with these two R

790
00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:15,719
Speaker 2: and B producers that Brad Shapiro that ended up doing

791
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:19,120
Speaker 2: a lot of work with James Brown and Dave Crawford

792
00:54:19,160 --> 00:54:22,040
Speaker 2: who did who was a writer and did a lot

793
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:24,400
Speaker 2: of great R and B stuff for Atlantic. And I

794
00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:30,120
Speaker 2: think that they were Jerry Wexler's idea of being a

795
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:36,840
Speaker 2: new Gamble and Huff as a team. And so Brad

796
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:40,080
Speaker 2: was white, Dave Crawford was black. They both had R

797
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:42,520
Speaker 2: and B roots, and they thought, well, because of our

798
00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:46,759
Speaker 2: blues and R and B, they might be good producers

799
00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:50,400
Speaker 2: for us. And I remember we rolled in to the

800
00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:56,480
Speaker 2: studio and we started playing and Dave and Brad said, well,

801
00:54:56,480 --> 00:54:58,600
Speaker 2: start playing some stuff. We set up like we were

802
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:02,040
Speaker 2: on stage, and we started playing, and little did I

803
00:55:02,120 --> 00:55:05,120
Speaker 2: know that they were actually recording us. That's how we

804
00:55:05,239 --> 00:55:10,520
Speaker 2: basically recorded. The first record was basically those takes. And

805
00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:13,840
Speaker 2: at one point Dave Crawford called me in the studios

806
00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:15,640
Speaker 2: a Pete, can you come in the control room? I

807
00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:20,000
Speaker 2: said sure. He said, what the hell is this thing

808
00:55:20,040 --> 00:55:22,960
Speaker 2: with the harp? I said, what do you mean? He said,

809
00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:27,160
Speaker 2: I mean who plays harmonica? I mean my grandmother listens

810
00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:32,839
Speaker 2: to harmonica. And they had no idea of Paul Butterfield.

811
00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:37,239
Speaker 2: They had no idea of the resurgence of Chicago, you know,

812
00:55:38,239 --> 00:55:41,839
Speaker 2: bands like the Guyles Band, you know, bands like Bloomfield

813
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:45,480
Speaker 2: and Butterfield and Al Cooper and Barry Goldberg and the

814
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:50,200
Speaker 2: whole resurgence of you know, you know, Blues Project with

815
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:53,520
Speaker 2: Al Cooper. They had no idea of that world. And

816
00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:58,720
Speaker 2: so we were, you know, coming to make our second record,

817
00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:03,360
Speaker 2: and I'm not sure the James Gang. I was a

818
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:06,480
Speaker 2: big fan of the James Gang, Joe Walsh, and we're

819
00:56:06,520 --> 00:56:11,920
Speaker 2: still friends to this day. An amazing character, amazing musician,

820
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:16,960
Speaker 2: amazing guy. And Bill's name came up in the mix

821
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:20,919
Speaker 2: and we were out in Detroit at the gold Key

822
00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:27,880
Speaker 2: Restaurant where this was in maybe seventy three or something,

823
00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:31,719
Speaker 2: and I remember the Dells, the R and B group,

824
00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:34,839
Speaker 2: the Dells that sang the great hit Oh what a night,

825
00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:36,600
Speaker 2: Oh what a night?

826
00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:38,640
Speaker 1: Do that you do?

827
00:56:39,560 --> 00:56:43,440
Speaker 2: It's early morning, so pardon me, So, I mean it

828
00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:45,719
Speaker 2: was amazing. There's the Dell's. I mean, I love the

829
00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:47,920
Speaker 2: Dells and Bill Sims, a guy. We all had to

830
00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:50,680
Speaker 2: talk and Bill said, you know, listen. You know, I

831
00:56:50,680 --> 00:56:52,880
Speaker 2: see you guys live. I said, you know, I wouldn't

832
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:54,880
Speaker 2: do much. I wouldn't change this sound. I would just

833
00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:57,960
Speaker 2: you know, try to enhance it in the studio and

834
00:56:58,280 --> 00:57:01,080
Speaker 2: we're all talking and we the TV on. We're all

835
00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:04,239
Speaker 2: in this hotel room and Bill came in and we

836
00:57:04,239 --> 00:57:06,000
Speaker 2: were just kind of amazed because he had on a

837
00:57:06,040 --> 00:57:08,239
Speaker 2: T shirt and just you know, playing and it was

838
00:57:08,320 --> 00:57:11,600
Speaker 2: just like one of us. And we for this meeting.

839
00:57:11,640 --> 00:57:14,120
Speaker 2: We had bought a bunch of popcorn and we had

840
00:57:14,160 --> 00:57:17,520
Speaker 2: some hamburgers we bought, and we had this big, you

841
00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:20,280
Speaker 2: know watermelon. It we sliced up, and we were all

842
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:23,360
Speaker 2: sitting around and just big kegs you know, beer and

843
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:28,840
Speaker 2: drinking beer. And I'm trying to think it was the

844
00:57:28,880 --> 00:57:34,680
Speaker 2: singer that Elvis Presley. Every time Elvis Presley saw him

845
00:57:34,680 --> 00:57:37,440
Speaker 2: on the TV, he would take out a magnum and

846
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:42,000
Speaker 2: shoot it Guley. Robert Ulay and Elvis is good for

847
00:57:42,040 --> 00:57:45,400
Speaker 2: some reason, you know. So the Elvis Maffi would always

848
00:57:45,640 --> 00:57:48,680
Speaker 2: if they knew Robert Ulay was going to be on

849
00:57:48,720 --> 00:57:50,960
Speaker 2: a television show, to make sure Elvis wouldn't want it,

850
00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:53,160
Speaker 2: because if he was at the Hilton Hotel he'd take

851
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:57,600
Speaker 2: out the gun and bam, you know, shoot a TV. Well,

852
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:01,200
Speaker 2: Robert Ulay was on the Mic Douglas Show. We're in

853
00:58:01,240 --> 00:58:05,200
Speaker 2: the middle of this meeting and Bill looks up, takes

854
00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:09,320
Speaker 2: out half a watermelon and goes wam right into the

855
00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:12,400
Speaker 2: TV set and man, we all just got up and

856
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:16,200
Speaker 2: cheered and said, yeah, we found our producer because he

857
00:58:16,520 --> 00:58:21,320
Speaker 2: just you know, first of all, he produced bb King's

858
00:58:21,320 --> 00:58:23,880
Speaker 2: big hit, The Thrill Is Gone. He knew all these

859
00:58:23,880 --> 00:58:28,280
Speaker 2: great jazz artists, but he wasn't. He was one of us.

860
00:58:28,960 --> 00:58:34,720
Speaker 2: And we just had an instantaneous connection with him spiritually, artistically,

861
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:42,200
Speaker 2: and he was an amazing guy. And Bill, I remember

862
00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:47,040
Speaker 2: we'd come we were doing our first session with Bill

863
00:58:47,080 --> 00:58:50,800
Speaker 2: at the Record Plant West, and then we moved to

864
00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:55,080
Speaker 2: do some overdubs at the Record Plant East, and this

865
00:58:55,160 --> 00:58:57,880
Speaker 2: young guy would come, friend of Bill's, with a little

866
00:58:57,880 --> 00:59:02,120
Speaker 2: at Taysha case and he'd say to me, listen, you

867
00:59:02,240 --> 00:59:06,320
Speaker 2: guys are great. I should manage it. And I said, well,

868
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:09,000
Speaker 2: we got a manager, and he goes, no, no, no,

869
00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:14,600
Speaker 2: that's not a manager. I'm a manager. You should let

870
00:59:14,600 --> 00:59:17,439
Speaker 2: me manage it. And he opened up is that test

871
00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:20,240
Speaker 2: shake case? And you had me all this stuff and

872
00:59:20,280 --> 00:59:24,760
Speaker 2: he would, you know, appear quite frequently, and I took

873
00:59:24,800 --> 00:59:28,160
Speaker 2: to him. He was a really you know, very smart

874
00:59:28,600 --> 00:59:32,240
Speaker 2: and you know guy. But the idea of you know,

875
00:59:32,840 --> 00:59:37,040
Speaker 2: breaking away from you know, the choice of Frank Barcelona

876
00:59:37,200 --> 00:59:40,040
Speaker 2: on our handshake deal, you know, and just you know,

877
00:59:40,080 --> 00:59:43,960
Speaker 2: we were rolling along. But that young guy with that

878
00:59:44,080 --> 00:59:48,040
Speaker 2: test shake case was this young fella starting in management

879
00:59:48,600 --> 00:59:52,480
Speaker 2: and his name was Irving asof and that began a

880
00:59:52,680 --> 00:59:55,680
Speaker 2: very long friendship to this day that I have with Irving.

881
00:59:56,640 --> 00:59:59,760
Speaker 2: He's kind of like one of my guardians. One of

882
00:59:59,800 --> 01:00:02,600
Speaker 2: my rabbi is somebody I will call and you know,

883
01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:06,959
Speaker 2: if I email Irving. You know, there are certain people

884
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:09,920
Speaker 2: in the music industry. Irving was one. Geffen was another

885
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:12,600
Speaker 2: John Winner when he was at Rolling Stone that you

886
01:00:12,640 --> 01:00:17,000
Speaker 2: could connect with and within ten minutes they would either

887
01:00:17,080 --> 01:00:19,520
Speaker 2: answer you or the secretary would you know, tell you

888
01:00:19,560 --> 01:00:22,440
Speaker 2: why you weren't getting an answer? But they always you know,

889
01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:27,840
Speaker 2: responded Irving still to this day, Happy Thanksgiving, Irving. Two

890
01:00:27,920 --> 01:00:31,680
Speaker 2: seconds later, gobble gobble, you know. And so I'm in

891
01:00:31,720 --> 01:00:35,040
Speaker 2: touch with Irving. And it's quite interesting because the other night,

892
01:00:35,360 --> 01:00:39,040
Speaker 2: just last night, no, the night before last, I was

893
01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:45,560
Speaker 2: backstage going to Vince Gill show, and Vince is now

894
01:00:46,280 --> 01:00:50,680
Speaker 2: an Eagle and he's great talent. And I loved Vince

895
01:00:50,720 --> 01:00:54,440
Speaker 2: for you know, decades, and I knew him when he

896
01:00:54,520 --> 01:01:00,200
Speaker 2: first got involved with Amy Grant. And how I also

897
01:01:00,320 --> 01:01:04,880
Speaker 2: met Irving was the Eagles opened up for the j

898
01:01:05,080 --> 01:01:08,200
Speaker 2: Giles Band a good many times, and that's how I

899
01:01:08,240 --> 01:01:12,560
Speaker 2: became very friendly with Don and Glenn and the band,

900
01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:18,360
Speaker 2: but especially Glenn and Down. And when I travel out

901
01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:21,480
Speaker 2: to Los Angeles to do any kind of business and

902
01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:24,560
Speaker 2: stuff for the band, I would always connect with Irving

903
01:01:24,960 --> 01:01:27,680
Speaker 2: and I'd always either go to his house or Don's house,

904
01:01:28,160 --> 01:01:32,440
Speaker 2: and Don and I remain very close throughout the years,

905
01:01:32,920 --> 01:01:35,560
Speaker 2: and every time the Gules Band was doing an important date,

906
01:01:35,720 --> 01:01:38,040
Speaker 2: Don always sent a telegram to me, you know, break

907
01:01:38,040 --> 01:01:40,480
Speaker 2: a leg, you know, good luck at Madison Square Garden.

908
01:01:40,520 --> 01:01:47,360
Speaker 2: And so it's funny how relationships like that remain. For instance,

909
01:01:48,960 --> 01:01:52,040
Speaker 2: you two opened up for the Jay Giles band and

910
01:01:52,200 --> 01:01:54,960
Speaker 2: we to this day. I always go to see him,

911
01:01:55,080 --> 01:01:58,560
Speaker 2: pay respects, and the friendship remains. Tom Petty opened up

912
01:01:58,600 --> 01:02:01,880
Speaker 2: for the Giles Band, and when Tom's last tour came,

913
01:02:02,160 --> 01:02:04,800
Speaker 2: you know, as a soloist, he said Pete I'd love

914
01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:07,000
Speaker 2: I'd be honor, you know, I'd love you to do

915
01:02:07,120 --> 01:02:09,120
Speaker 2: some dates. So I did about eight and nine dates

916
01:02:09,120 --> 01:02:12,040
Speaker 2: with my solo band for Tom and so they opened

917
01:02:12,120 --> 01:02:14,400
Speaker 2: up for us, and I opened up for Tom, and

918
01:02:14,800 --> 01:02:18,600
Speaker 2: unfortunately it became his last tour. But you know, the

919
01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:25,080
Speaker 2: circle goes around, and uh uh, I guess I live on,

920
01:02:25,480 --> 01:02:30,680
Speaker 2: you know, just enthusiasm, energy and the will to keep going.

921
01:02:31,240 --> 01:02:36,880
Speaker 2: But uh, you know, unlike d I don't think of money,

922
01:02:37,200 --> 01:02:40,920
Speaker 2: money money. I think of the artistic challenge, the artistic

923
01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:44,480
Speaker 2: challenge and the artistic challenge. Though a lot of people

924
01:02:44,680 --> 01:02:50,320
Speaker 2: just know me as Peter Wolf lead singer, or the

925
01:02:50,440 --> 01:02:53,120
Speaker 2: Jay Giles band or the Jay Giles. Oh yeah, that's

926
01:02:53,160 --> 01:02:57,479
Speaker 2: Jay Giles. And it's so funny because you know, once

927
01:02:57,520 --> 01:03:02,280
Speaker 2: you establish a brand name in rock and roll, it's

928
01:03:02,440 --> 01:03:07,800
Speaker 2: very hard to break away from it, and very few

929
01:03:08,640 --> 01:03:13,280
Speaker 2: have succeeded in it. You know, Phil Collins was one,

930
01:03:13,960 --> 01:03:16,600
Speaker 2: Peter Gabriel is another. I mean, of course there're you know,

931
01:03:16,640 --> 01:03:19,600
Speaker 2: you could make a list, but the amount that tried

932
01:03:20,040 --> 01:03:23,760
Speaker 2: that couldn't is far far bigger than those that were

933
01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:30,000
Speaker 2: able to. And I'll give you for instance, if Sting

934
01:03:31,080 --> 01:03:34,760
Speaker 2: was to play Boston he would be able to play

935
01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:40,040
Speaker 2: the Wang Theater. I would think definitely one night. I

936
01:03:40,040 --> 01:03:42,320
Speaker 2: don't know about two. I'm just I don't know, but

937
01:03:42,360 --> 01:03:47,040
Speaker 2: I'm just making a thing. Now, here's Sting, who came

938
01:03:47,080 --> 01:03:50,560
Speaker 2: out of a three piece band. He's the player of

939
01:03:50,600 --> 01:03:56,040
Speaker 2: the bass player in his band, the Police. He's the

940
01:03:56,080 --> 01:04:02,200
Speaker 2: sole songwriter of the band, the Police, and he's the

941
01:04:02,320 --> 01:04:06,640
Speaker 2: singer of all the songs of the Police. And the

942
01:04:06,680 --> 01:04:09,880
Speaker 2: Police is a three piece band. If Sting was to

943
01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:14,840
Speaker 2: go out, he'd play the Wang Theater. If the Police

944
01:04:14,920 --> 01:04:19,800
Speaker 2: went out, he'd play Fen White Park. And here it is.

945
01:04:19,960 --> 01:04:24,800
Speaker 2: It's the same singer, same player, and just by the

946
01:04:24,920 --> 01:04:29,880
Speaker 2: name the Police, Sting could put together a far more

947
01:04:30,040 --> 01:04:36,800
Speaker 2: interesting musical group than the Police, you know, by adding

948
01:04:36,880 --> 01:04:41,200
Speaker 2: some of the greatest players and you know, but it's

949
01:04:41,240 --> 01:04:46,600
Speaker 2: the brand name, and people don't care that it's still Sting.

950
01:04:47,280 --> 01:04:52,240
Speaker 2: They hear Police, and Police is far more valuable to

951
01:04:52,560 --> 01:04:56,800
Speaker 2: a promoter than the name Sting. And go figure that

952
01:04:56,920 --> 01:05:02,240
Speaker 2: one out.

953
01:05:05,200 --> 01:05:09,080
Speaker 1: Okay, you end up having a relationship in being married

954
01:05:09,200 --> 01:05:14,439
Speaker 1: to Fade done Away. At the time, rock was much

955
01:05:14,480 --> 01:05:19,320
Speaker 1: bigger than movies, but movies had a glamor that was different.

956
01:05:20,040 --> 01:05:24,040
Speaker 1: So you're in this situation where you're in her world.

957
01:05:24,080 --> 01:05:27,120
Speaker 1: At times when you're in her world, did you feel

958
01:05:27,160 --> 01:05:29,600
Speaker 1: like you would also ran like you were out of place?

959
01:05:31,680 --> 01:05:34,640
Speaker 2: Well, Bob, it's interesting, you know, I don't know if

960
01:05:34,920 --> 01:05:37,040
Speaker 2: rock was a bigger world. I mean, movies were making

961
01:05:37,120 --> 01:05:40,200
Speaker 2: far more money than a rock and roll did, but

962
01:05:40,320 --> 01:05:42,560
Speaker 2: they both were making quite a lot of money. But

963
01:05:42,600 --> 01:05:44,920
Speaker 2: the thing was in the era when I first the

964
01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:50,160
Speaker 2: time that I met Fae, all actors wanted to be

965
01:05:50,280 --> 01:05:54,560
Speaker 2: rock and rollers, and all rock and rollers ended actors,

966
01:05:54,840 --> 01:05:57,560
Speaker 2: but there were very few. I don't know if there

967
01:05:57,560 --> 01:06:00,880
Speaker 2: were any major rockers that were married to actors or

968
01:06:00,920 --> 01:06:03,600
Speaker 2: actresses at that time. You know, a lot in the story,

969
01:06:03,680 --> 01:06:06,920
Speaker 2: as I was saying with Hitchcock and different people that

970
01:06:07,000 --> 01:06:09,560
Speaker 2: I mentioned, and how I ran into Bob Dylan, it

971
01:06:09,600 --> 01:06:12,720
Speaker 2: was all by chance, serpentdipity, and I did not want

972
01:06:12,760 --> 01:06:15,800
Speaker 2: this book to be oh I met this famous person

973
01:06:15,880 --> 01:06:19,120
Speaker 2: or I met that famous person. What I found in

974
01:06:19,200 --> 01:06:23,440
Speaker 2: a lot of the musical books that I were reading

975
01:06:23,960 --> 01:06:26,320
Speaker 2: was they would mention a character, but they didn't really

976
01:06:26,360 --> 01:06:30,080
Speaker 2: tell you what the character was like. So I tried

977
01:06:30,120 --> 01:06:33,440
Speaker 2: to be There was a quote that I used in

978
01:06:33,480 --> 01:06:37,160
Speaker 2: the book from Christopher Issuwood. I am a camera with

979
01:06:37,240 --> 01:06:40,200
Speaker 2: the lens always open. So I tried to be the

980
01:06:40,240 --> 01:06:44,919
Speaker 2: camera taking pictures of like Muddy and Dylan and Van

981
01:06:45,000 --> 01:06:48,520
Speaker 2: Morrison and people that I got to know, but tried to,

982
01:06:49,480 --> 01:06:53,480
Speaker 2: you know, without being kiss and tell, but just tried

983
01:06:53,520 --> 01:06:56,400
Speaker 2: to show what their personalities were like, what it was

984
01:06:56,520 --> 01:06:59,040
Speaker 2: like spending time with them, What was it like hanging

985
01:06:59,080 --> 01:07:01,960
Speaker 2: out with Van, what was it like, you know, meeting

986
01:07:02,000 --> 01:07:04,960
Speaker 2: Alfred Hitchcock in his house. And so the book is

987
01:07:05,000 --> 01:07:09,080
Speaker 2: those kind of adventures, I would say. And so one

988
01:07:09,160 --> 01:07:14,880
Speaker 2: day we were playing the Fillmore West in California, and

989
01:07:15,080 --> 01:07:20,080
Speaker 2: you know, there was that great Tony Bennett's song I

990
01:07:20,200 --> 01:07:22,640
Speaker 2: Left my Heart in San Francisco, and I was saying

991
01:07:22,680 --> 01:07:26,280
Speaker 2: to this woman that worked for Rolling Stone magazine, you know, Bryn,

992
01:07:27,840 --> 01:07:30,919
Speaker 2: San Francisco is one of my favorite towns. It's such

993
01:07:30,960 --> 01:07:34,240
Speaker 2: a known to be a romantic town. I don't know anybody,

994
01:07:35,280 --> 01:07:38,560
Speaker 2: And so she said, I'll bring a girlfriend to come

995
01:07:38,920 --> 01:07:42,400
Speaker 2: to the show tomorrow. We were playing in Winterland, and

996
01:07:42,480 --> 01:07:44,920
Speaker 2: she did, and I could see her a side of

997
01:07:44,960 --> 01:07:47,280
Speaker 2: the stage. She showed up and she had this gal

998
01:07:47,400 --> 01:07:52,000
Speaker 2: with a hat pulled down, and long story short, that's

999
01:07:52,000 --> 01:07:56,960
Speaker 2: how I first met Faye Dunaway, and I didn't really

1000
01:07:57,120 --> 01:08:02,280
Speaker 2: even know she was at first, and we became friends.

1001
01:08:02,720 --> 01:08:07,040
Speaker 2: I joined there during Christmas. We spent time together in

1002
01:08:07,080 --> 01:08:12,240
Speaker 2: New York and slowly, you know, she became so involved

1003
01:08:12,720 --> 01:08:15,800
Speaker 2: and loved music so much and enjoyed being on the

1004
01:08:15,880 --> 01:08:19,240
Speaker 2: road and visiting the band. And I was such a

1005
01:08:19,240 --> 01:08:24,679
Speaker 2: film buff. I enjoyed being in her world. And we

1006
01:08:24,720 --> 01:08:30,559
Speaker 2: both were so dedicated to our work and we both

1007
01:08:30,600 --> 01:08:33,800
Speaker 2: helped each other in our work that that became the

1008
01:08:33,800 --> 01:08:39,240
Speaker 2: bond of which turned into a marriage, and it remained

1009
01:08:39,760 --> 01:08:41,960
Speaker 2: for the years that it was good. It remained that way.

1010
01:08:42,160 --> 01:08:44,519
Speaker 2: You know. We never had a problem about, you know,

1011
01:08:44,800 --> 01:08:48,080
Speaker 2: who was a bigger star, who was more important, tough,

1012
01:08:48,080 --> 01:08:51,720
Speaker 2: who money or anything. We were just really committed to

1013
01:08:51,800 --> 01:08:58,439
Speaker 2: helping each other in all of our projects. And at

1014
01:08:58,479 --> 01:09:02,200
Speaker 2: that time, I think the only other after we got married,

1015
01:09:02,240 --> 01:09:05,960
Speaker 2: I think Sharon Greg Alman got married for about I

1016
01:09:06,000 --> 01:09:08,639
Speaker 2: don't know, five minutes or whatever it was. I remember

1017
01:09:08,680 --> 01:09:11,280
Speaker 2: being at a function and you know, I knew Greg

1018
01:09:11,320 --> 01:09:14,960
Speaker 2: because the Allman Brothers and the Guiles Band played must

1019
01:09:14,960 --> 01:09:17,800
Speaker 2: have played forty fifty shows together, you know, in the

1020
01:09:17,840 --> 01:09:20,960
Speaker 2: early days and when Dwayne was still with us and

1021
01:09:21,160 --> 01:09:23,800
Speaker 2: Dwayne and Jay Goals, you know, just you know, get

1022
01:09:23,840 --> 01:09:27,000
Speaker 2: to the venue three four hours earlier, and they would

1023
01:09:27,040 --> 01:09:30,120
Speaker 2: just do riffs, you know, on and on. I remember

1024
01:09:30,200 --> 01:09:32,840
Speaker 2: doing one, you know, you know, Greg just kind of

1025
01:09:33,760 --> 01:09:41,519
Speaker 2: you know, passed right out at this function and h So, yeah,

1026
01:09:41,600 --> 01:09:46,240
Speaker 2: it was it was interesting for me to meet some

1027
01:09:46,320 --> 01:09:49,880
Speaker 2: of the key players, Robert Evans, some of the big

1028
01:09:49,920 --> 01:09:53,559
Speaker 2: agents in Hollywood, and some of the great directors, you know,

1029
01:09:53,600 --> 01:09:57,719
Speaker 2: people like George Kueker and King Vidar and of course

1030
01:09:57,760 --> 01:10:03,640
Speaker 2: Alfred Hitchcock and my time spent with Roman Polanski. And

1031
01:10:03,720 --> 01:10:08,880
Speaker 2: so this to me was an adventure of meeting other

1032
01:10:09,280 --> 01:10:13,040
Speaker 2: really talented artists and being a film buff when I

1033
01:10:13,120 --> 01:10:16,280
Speaker 2: was a kid, I would you know, by the time

1034
01:10:16,320 --> 01:10:19,520
Speaker 2: I got to Boston, I almost had seen every important

1035
01:10:19,640 --> 01:10:22,960
Speaker 2: foreign film ever released, all the Bergman movies, all the

1036
01:10:22,960 --> 01:10:26,640
Speaker 2: Fellini movies, all the you know, true fol movies, you know,

1037
01:10:26,640 --> 01:10:29,200
Speaker 2: and everything that came out in that era, you know,

1038
01:10:29,640 --> 01:10:33,360
Speaker 2: which was a golden era for French films and the

1039
01:10:33,400 --> 01:10:36,599
Speaker 2: Swedish films. You know. I saw Alexander Nievsky, I mean,

1040
01:10:36,600 --> 01:10:40,400
Speaker 2: I just seen them all. So being on a movie

1041
01:10:40,439 --> 01:10:45,519
Speaker 2: set was very intriguing and also Fay and I had

1042
01:10:45,560 --> 01:10:50,439
Speaker 2: such an amazing relationship where, you know, I would take

1043
01:10:50,479 --> 01:10:54,160
Speaker 2: her out to have a sushi dinner with Wilson Pickett

1044
01:10:54,160 --> 01:10:58,240
Speaker 2: and Don Kove. Remember Pickett said, you know, so like

1045
01:10:58,600 --> 01:11:00,840
Speaker 2: what the hell is this fish? I mean, nobody couldn't

1046
01:11:00,880 --> 01:11:03,720
Speaker 2: It was just I mean, it was it was hilarious.

1047
01:11:03,880 --> 01:11:06,880
Speaker 2: And then you know, going to have dinner with Alan

1048
01:11:07,000 --> 01:11:11,000
Speaker 2: mcgraar and Steve McQueen or Barbaris Dreyisan's house. You know,

1049
01:11:11,200 --> 01:11:15,120
Speaker 2: so we were both able to share each other's worlds.

1050
01:11:15,800 --> 01:11:18,280
Speaker 2: And that's what I tried to write in the book,

1051
01:11:18,520 --> 01:11:21,920
Speaker 2: you know, sort of a Valentine to the Arow and

1052
01:11:22,040 --> 01:11:25,120
Speaker 2: our you know, marriage was really very fruitful.

1053
01:11:26,160 --> 01:11:29,519
Speaker 1: But you weren't a lot of situations that were not

1054
01:11:29,720 --> 01:11:33,320
Speaker 1: your world as were significant other and at times husband

1055
01:11:34,560 --> 01:11:36,679
Speaker 1: and a lot of times you you know, people didn't

1056
01:11:36,720 --> 01:11:40,439
Speaker 1: respect you. Did you ever feel like me? And you know,

1057
01:11:41,040 --> 01:11:44,080
Speaker 1: I'm just here. Don't why you're down on me. It's like,

1058
01:11:44,280 --> 01:11:46,920
Speaker 1: you know, I'm involved in a relationship with you know,

1059
01:11:47,880 --> 01:11:50,640
Speaker 1: treat me as an equal. You're treating other people's significant

1060
01:11:50,640 --> 01:11:51,640
Speaker 1: others as equals.

1061
01:11:52,160 --> 01:11:53,600
Speaker 2: I'm not sure what you mean, but.

1062
01:11:55,080 --> 01:11:59,839
Speaker 1: Okay, See movie business traditionally looks down on the music business.

1063
01:12:00,160 --> 01:12:00,800
Speaker 2: Well not then.

1064
01:12:01,760 --> 01:12:05,559
Speaker 1: Okay, so you felt totally comfortable whenever you were with

1065
01:12:05,720 --> 01:12:09,080
Speaker 1: Faye in movie situations.

1066
01:12:09,120 --> 01:12:14,400
Speaker 2: Well, no, I hear what you're saying. No, because you know,

1067
01:12:14,439 --> 01:12:18,120
Speaker 2: there was so much money. Every five minutes, you know,

1068
01:12:18,479 --> 01:12:20,760
Speaker 2: would be a recording budget, you know, because if the

1069
01:12:20,840 --> 01:12:25,960
Speaker 2: light went this, the pressure was intense. Uh. And you know, people,

1070
01:12:26,760 --> 01:12:29,920
Speaker 2: you know, back then, nobody knew the Jay Giles Band

1071
01:12:29,960 --> 01:12:33,479
Speaker 2: were you know, basically it wasn't uh, and many people

1072
01:12:33,520 --> 01:12:36,599
Speaker 2: weren't into rock that were involved in the music industry

1073
01:12:36,760 --> 01:12:41,400
Speaker 2: at that point. Younger actors and actresses certainly were, but

1074
01:12:41,760 --> 01:12:44,719
Speaker 2: you know, uh, you know, we weren't the Rolling Stones,

1075
01:12:44,840 --> 01:12:48,880
Speaker 2: and we weren't led Zeppelin, and so we weren't you know,

1076
01:12:49,000 --> 01:12:52,960
Speaker 2: so uh, many people just thought of me as this

1077
01:12:53,320 --> 01:12:57,920
Speaker 2: you know, rock guy, you know with Fay. But those

1078
01:12:58,000 --> 01:13:01,040
Speaker 2: who you know, I remember going out to dinner with

1079
01:13:01,080 --> 01:13:04,639
Speaker 2: the fellow that you know was producing The Poseidon Adventure

1080
01:13:04,680 --> 01:13:08,559
Speaker 2: and Towering Inferno, and uh, you know, once we got together,

1081
01:13:08,680 --> 01:13:12,559
Speaker 2: or having a dinner with Siddeley La met uh, whose

1082
01:13:12,840 --> 01:13:17,720
Speaker 2: wife was oh h the great singer buck A bug

1083
01:13:17,720 --> 01:13:21,120
Speaker 2: A bug a book great, Oh, it'll come to me

1084
01:13:23,000 --> 01:13:27,360
Speaker 2: you know, we would have you know, a great interaction

1085
01:13:27,520 --> 01:13:32,040
Speaker 2: because people I would realize I wasn't just this you know,

1086
01:13:32,520 --> 01:13:35,360
Speaker 2: drugged out crazy rocker because I didn't do drugs. I wasn't,

1087
01:13:35,520 --> 01:13:39,559
Speaker 2: you know, in my opinion, that crazy. So I was

1088
01:13:39,640 --> 01:13:42,400
Speaker 2: accepted by those people who got to Monomi, which is

1089
01:13:42,400 --> 01:13:46,040
Speaker 2: one of the reasons I wrote this book, because you know,

1090
01:13:46,920 --> 01:13:50,519
Speaker 2: to let people know some of the adventures that I

1091
01:13:50,640 --> 01:13:53,880
Speaker 2: was able and privileged and the people I was privileged

1092
01:13:53,920 --> 01:13:58,559
Speaker 2: to meet. Uh, that was beyond just rock and roll.

1093
01:13:59,040 --> 01:14:01,599
Speaker 2: Uh not. You know, I love rock and roll, but

1094
01:14:01,840 --> 01:14:04,360
Speaker 2: there are more. There was more to my life than

1095
01:14:04,560 --> 01:14:07,879
Speaker 2: just you know, getting on a bus, getting on stage,

1096
01:14:08,040 --> 01:14:10,280
Speaker 2: doing a sound check, you know, going in the studio,

1097
01:14:10,479 --> 01:14:13,519
Speaker 2: making an album, promoting the album, getting back on the

1098
01:14:13,640 --> 01:14:16,840
Speaker 2: you know, et cetera, et cetera. So, uh, that's what

1099
01:14:16,920 --> 01:14:19,800
Speaker 2: the meaning of the Waiting on the Moon was about.

1100
01:14:20,600 --> 01:14:25,599
Speaker 1: Okay, ahmit amit is portrayed as this dapper guy. They

1101
01:14:25,600 --> 01:14:28,120
Speaker 1: did a story about him and the New Yorker, but

1102
01:14:28,240 --> 01:14:31,920
Speaker 1: Amic could talk shit and had sharp elbows. The people

1103
01:14:31,960 --> 01:14:34,960
Speaker 1: who knew him were aware of what was your experience

1104
01:14:35,000 --> 01:14:35,800
Speaker 1: with ahmit.

1105
01:14:36,400 --> 01:14:39,160
Speaker 2: I was quite intrigued with Ahmat as a character. I mean,

1106
01:14:39,240 --> 01:14:41,960
Speaker 2: Ahmitt was, you know, a character out of a novel.

1107
01:14:42,280 --> 01:14:46,000
Speaker 2: Uh he he, he would be like I. I didn't

1108
01:14:46,040 --> 01:14:48,960
Speaker 2: see all of the ray movie, but I did see

1109
01:14:49,000 --> 01:14:51,120
Speaker 2: the clip with Ahmen and there was nothing like amen.

1110
01:14:51,320 --> 01:14:53,800
Speaker 2: You know, they they didn't even come close. You know.

1111
01:14:53,960 --> 01:14:58,880
Speaker 2: Ahmitt was a very very bright him and his brother,

1112
01:14:58,920 --> 01:15:02,800
Speaker 2: and that's why we were bright. They went to incredible schools.

1113
01:15:03,200 --> 01:15:07,599
Speaker 2: They were the sons of the Turkish ambassador uh the

1114
01:15:07,680 --> 01:15:11,120
Speaker 2: United States. They lived in Washington, d C. They had

1115
01:15:11,200 --> 01:15:15,519
Speaker 2: parties in there at the embassy with people like Duke

1116
01:15:15,560 --> 01:15:18,800
Speaker 2: Allington and Cab Callaway and you know, they were just

1117
01:15:19,240 --> 01:15:23,360
Speaker 2: jazz and finadoes. They were very cultured. And Ahmed spoke

1118
01:15:23,439 --> 01:15:28,800
Speaker 2: many languages, and he was a charismatic character and an

1119
01:15:28,880 --> 01:15:34,960
Speaker 2: amazing businessman. And his passion for music was and his

1120
01:15:35,560 --> 01:15:40,960
Speaker 2: uh knowledge of music was so enormous, uh and his

1121
01:15:41,000 --> 01:15:44,600
Speaker 2: ability of I have a chapter of a night on

1122
01:15:44,640 --> 01:15:48,120
Speaker 2: the Town with Ahmit, and you would go from you know,

1123
01:15:48,880 --> 01:15:51,760
Speaker 2: being at this very plush dinner party where you would

1124
01:15:51,800 --> 01:15:55,559
Speaker 2: have people like the Mayor of New York, Henry Kishinger, uh,

1125
01:15:56,160 --> 01:15:59,120
Speaker 2: you know, and then we'd end up at the Carlisle

1126
01:15:59,200 --> 01:16:02,360
Speaker 2: Hotel to see short then go to Buddy's Place to

1127
01:16:02,360 --> 01:16:07,240
Speaker 2: see Joe Williams, then go to fifty second Street to

1128
01:16:07,320 --> 01:16:10,880
Speaker 2: see Little Jazz, you know, Roy Eldridge, and then go

1129
01:16:10,960 --> 01:16:15,559
Speaker 2: downtown to see Reno Sweeney's to see Manhattan Transfer, then

1130
01:16:15,600 --> 01:16:17,960
Speaker 2: go to this other club to see a new rock

1131
01:16:18,000 --> 01:16:21,320
Speaker 2: band he was recorded, and then go downtown to you know,

1132
01:16:21,479 --> 01:16:24,000
Speaker 2: see Larry Rivers, the painter, and hang out, you know,

1133
01:16:24,080 --> 01:16:26,439
Speaker 2: in his loft, and then go back out and the

1134
01:16:26,520 --> 01:16:29,639
Speaker 2: sun's coming up. And you know, that was one night

1135
01:16:29,880 --> 01:16:32,360
Speaker 2: with Amet, and the next day he'd be in the office,

1136
01:16:32,479 --> 01:16:35,439
Speaker 2: you know, taking care of business at Atlantic. And so

1137
01:16:35,600 --> 01:16:43,879
Speaker 2: Amet was this incredibly charismanic figure and incredibly brilliant figure

1138
01:16:44,080 --> 01:16:53,120
Speaker 2: obviously in business. And when Ross bought and form w EA,

1139
01:16:54,479 --> 01:16:58,600
Speaker 2: he had the Kinney parking lots. The ingenious thing he

1140
01:16:58,640 --> 01:17:03,160
Speaker 2: did was when he put uh Warner Brothers, Atlantic, Lecture

1141
01:17:03,280 --> 01:17:09,000
Speaker 2: and Uh, you know together to form WEA Uh. He

1142
01:17:09,200 --> 01:17:17,160
Speaker 2: kept the people that founded these labels in place. So

1143
01:17:17,200 --> 01:17:20,720
Speaker 2: you had Mo Austin still running his label, you had

1144
01:17:20,760 --> 01:17:24,400
Speaker 2: Amit running his label, and Geffen and all of the above,

1145
01:17:24,760 --> 01:17:29,439
Speaker 2: and so uh it was a very lucrative time for

1146
01:17:30,960 --> 01:17:34,959
Speaker 2: the record industry. And so being a friend of omit. Socially,

1147
01:17:35,400 --> 01:17:37,840
Speaker 2: I got to meet all the players. I remember with

1148
01:17:37,960 --> 01:17:41,519
Speaker 2: Jerry Wexler, we'd go to a dinner party at Mo

1149
01:17:41,680 --> 01:17:45,240
Speaker 2: Austin's and everybody had their wine cellars and we're trying

1150
01:17:45,240 --> 01:17:48,719
Speaker 2: to out to each other who had the greatest wine cellars.

1151
01:17:48,800 --> 01:17:52,080
Speaker 2: And it was just a very heady time in the

1152
01:17:52,160 --> 01:17:56,519
Speaker 2: music industry. So one night being with all the great players,

1153
01:17:56,600 --> 01:17:59,320
Speaker 2: Jerry Moss and from A and M, and you know,

1154
01:17:59,560 --> 01:18:02,320
Speaker 2: being at a dinner party with those people one night,

1155
01:18:03,200 --> 01:18:06,200
Speaker 2: and then being at a dinner party at Chasin's with

1156
01:18:06,280 --> 01:18:10,040
Speaker 2: the entire Hollywood brass. You know, it was you know,

1157
01:18:10,080 --> 01:18:12,800
Speaker 2: when I think back at it. At the time, I

1158
01:18:12,920 --> 01:18:15,679
Speaker 2: just accepted it as my life. But when I think

1159
01:18:15,720 --> 01:18:17,960
Speaker 2: back at it, it was pretty remarkable.

1160
01:18:19,640 --> 01:18:23,800
Speaker 1: Okay. In the book you talk about the breakup of

1161
01:18:23,840 --> 01:18:27,759
Speaker 1: the you being excised from the Jay Gills band. Let's

1162
01:18:27,760 --> 01:18:31,240
Speaker 1: cut to the chase. Were they jealous that you were

1163
01:18:31,280 --> 01:18:35,280
Speaker 1: the front person? Was it a personality thing or was

1164
01:18:35,320 --> 01:18:39,040
Speaker 1: it the money? And are all three? Because as a

1165
01:18:39,080 --> 01:18:42,040
Speaker 1: writer you get more money and then you say you

1166
01:18:42,160 --> 01:18:46,679
Speaker 1: regretted reunion shows. So tell me what was going on there?

1167
01:18:47,720 --> 01:18:50,759
Speaker 2: Well, first thing, it had nothing to do with money.

1168
01:18:51,560 --> 01:18:57,120
Speaker 2: That was not the problem. And as I explained in

1169
01:18:57,240 --> 01:19:01,680
Speaker 2: the book, it's a chapter all practice size. You know,

1170
01:19:01,680 --> 01:19:04,479
Speaker 2: it's funny, Bob. When I first started the book, the

1171
01:19:04,520 --> 01:19:07,680
Speaker 2: two things I made it a point of there were

1172
01:19:07,680 --> 01:19:10,120
Speaker 2: two things I was not going to write about. I

1173
01:19:10,160 --> 01:19:13,040
Speaker 2: was not going to write about my marriage, and I

1174
01:19:13,080 --> 01:19:14,960
Speaker 2: was not going to write about the Jay Giles Band.

1175
01:19:15,160 --> 01:19:18,280
Speaker 2: I just thought I would make a book of short

1176
01:19:18,320 --> 01:19:23,960
Speaker 2: stories of Ahmet and Don Covey or Muddy John Lee Hooker,

1177
01:19:24,000 --> 01:19:25,880
Speaker 2: Alfred Hitchcock. And it was just going to be a

1178
01:19:25,880 --> 01:19:30,000
Speaker 2: collection of these short vignettes and like New Yorker profiles.

1179
01:19:30,760 --> 01:19:34,439
Speaker 2: But as I got on, people at the publishing company thought,

1180
01:19:34,520 --> 01:19:39,160
Speaker 2: you know, Peter, we're all interested in your marriage, or we're

1181
01:19:39,320 --> 01:19:42,920
Speaker 2: interested in Jay Giles. So you got to say something,

1182
01:19:42,960 --> 01:19:45,080
Speaker 2: You got to do something. So I decided to write

1183
01:19:45,120 --> 01:19:49,840
Speaker 2: a chapter about the Giles Band. And the Giles Band,

1184
01:19:50,920 --> 01:19:55,160
Speaker 2: as I explained, like many bands at that era, be

1185
01:19:55,280 --> 01:19:58,559
Speaker 2: it the Rolling Stones, you had what they called I

1186
01:19:58,680 --> 01:20:02,599
Speaker 2: call key players. The Eagles, Glenn Fry and Don Henley

1187
01:20:02,640 --> 01:20:06,200
Speaker 2: were the key players. And Zeppelin you had Jimmy Page,

1188
01:20:06,479 --> 01:20:11,719
Speaker 2: Robert Plant and you know the Stones you had Jagger

1189
01:20:12,160 --> 01:20:18,840
Speaker 2: Richard's and the Beatles, McCartney Lennon, and when that when

1190
01:20:18,880 --> 01:20:21,519
Speaker 2: those two key players, which are very close, it's like

1191
01:20:21,520 --> 01:20:23,840
Speaker 2: a marriage and the rest of the band is like

1192
01:20:23,880 --> 01:20:29,440
Speaker 2: a family. When there's a fracture between those two key players,

1193
01:20:29,880 --> 01:20:36,200
Speaker 2: that's usually unless a really talented manager or somebody intervenes

1194
01:20:36,840 --> 01:20:39,920
Speaker 2: and is able to, you know, act as a marriage

1195
01:20:39,960 --> 01:20:46,639
Speaker 2: counselor to get over whatever is causing the problems. Usually

1196
01:20:46,640 --> 01:20:50,000
Speaker 2: it's the sign the beginning of the end for the group.

1197
01:20:50,960 --> 01:20:55,160
Speaker 2: And that's what happened with the Gules. The reasoning being,

1198
01:20:55,320 --> 01:20:57,720
Speaker 2: you know what, I didn't write in the book, and

1199
01:20:57,760 --> 01:21:00,400
Speaker 2: I don't know why I didn't. I thought about later

1200
01:21:01,160 --> 01:21:07,240
Speaker 2: back in nineteen seventy, No, back in nineteen sixty eight.

1201
01:21:09,040 --> 01:21:13,519
Speaker 2: Once we got signed to Atlantic, Atlantic forgot about us

1202
01:21:13,560 --> 01:21:15,719
Speaker 2: for about a year and we were just touring around.

1203
01:21:16,600 --> 01:21:21,680
Speaker 2: The band had a meeting and decided they were going

1204
01:21:21,720 --> 01:21:23,840
Speaker 2: to have a meeting after a show. I remember Jay

1205
01:21:23,840 --> 01:21:25,320
Speaker 2: came up to me and said, Pete, there's going to

1206
01:21:25,400 --> 01:21:28,800
Speaker 2: be a band meeting, but we really rather you not

1207
01:21:29,000 --> 01:21:33,240
Speaker 2: come to it. I said really, and he said yeah,

1208
01:21:33,720 --> 01:21:37,040
Speaker 2: And this is nineteen sixty eight. And they came out

1209
01:21:37,240 --> 01:21:43,879
Speaker 2: and they said, we feel that, you know, you're holding

1210
01:21:44,120 --> 01:21:49,240
Speaker 2: back the band. You're not a real singer. You know,

1211
01:21:49,439 --> 01:21:56,880
Speaker 2: you don't have the chops needed, and we just you know,

1212
01:21:57,760 --> 01:22:00,719
Speaker 2: not wanting you to stay in the band anymore. We voted,

1213
01:22:01,000 --> 01:22:06,320
Speaker 2: we voted you out, and I was devastated. I mean

1214
01:22:06,360 --> 01:22:14,000
Speaker 2: I was, you know, totally devastated. And I remember about

1215
01:22:14,479 --> 01:22:18,080
Speaker 2: two three weeks later, I get a phone call from

1216
01:22:18,920 --> 01:22:21,720
Speaker 2: Jay and saying could they come over to my apartment?

1217
01:22:22,520 --> 01:22:26,400
Speaker 2: And they did, and they said, listen, we apologize. You know,

1218
01:22:26,439 --> 01:22:31,200
Speaker 2: we made a really big mistake, and we really wonder

1219
01:22:31,240 --> 01:22:34,640
Speaker 2: if you appreciate coming back, and let's just continue as

1220
01:22:34,680 --> 01:22:37,559
Speaker 2: if nothing happened. And I loved the band so much.

1221
01:22:37,840 --> 01:22:42,600
Speaker 2: I did, and maybe at that point, if I was

1222
01:22:42,720 --> 01:22:46,799
Speaker 2: wise enough, I might have said, you know, Jay Giles

1223
01:22:46,840 --> 01:22:51,800
Speaker 2: band featuring Peter Woolf or something, because throughout the good

1224
01:22:51,800 --> 01:22:54,800
Speaker 2: part of the band, most people saw it I was

1225
01:22:54,920 --> 01:22:56,960
Speaker 2: Jay Giles because I was the front guy. And I

1226
01:22:56,960 --> 01:23:02,000
Speaker 2: remember when we first played the More East Bill, Graham

1227
01:23:02,400 --> 01:23:06,280
Speaker 2: put us on without seeing us and came running into

1228
01:23:06,320 --> 01:23:08,559
Speaker 2: the dressing room after the show. We got about four

1229
01:23:08,680 --> 01:23:11,639
Speaker 2: encores and he threw his arms around me and said, Jay,

1230
01:23:11,960 --> 01:23:14,439
Speaker 2: you were amazing. He lifted me up to the ground.

1231
01:23:14,479 --> 01:23:17,240
Speaker 2: I said, Bill, I'm not Jay. He said what He goes,

1232
01:23:17,240 --> 01:23:19,000
Speaker 2: I'm Pete Wilop. He goes, who the hell is J

1233
01:23:19,840 --> 01:23:22,559
Speaker 2: I said, the guitar player. And Bill always wanted to

1234
01:23:22,600 --> 01:23:26,639
Speaker 2: manage the band, also wanted to manage me. And I said, well, Bill,

1235
01:23:26,680 --> 01:23:29,679
Speaker 2: if you were going to manage the band, what would

1236
01:23:29,680 --> 01:23:30,920
Speaker 2: you do? He is. The first thing I'd do is

1237
01:23:31,000 --> 01:23:35,479
Speaker 2: change the name that Jay Giles is confusing everything. Confused me.

1238
01:23:35,520 --> 01:23:38,280
Speaker 2: He's confusing everything. You know, think of another name or

1239
01:23:38,320 --> 01:23:40,559
Speaker 2: you know whatever. I said, Bill, that's not going to fly.

1240
01:23:41,560 --> 01:23:49,000
Speaker 2: And so going back to after we're signed now with

1241
01:23:49,080 --> 01:23:57,960
Speaker 2: EMI Records, and Freeze Frame comes out and centerfold, which

1242
01:23:58,040 --> 01:24:01,439
Speaker 2: nobody in the band thought was should be the single.

1243
01:24:04,680 --> 01:24:07,880
Speaker 2: My other key member thought it should be a ballad

1244
01:24:07,960 --> 01:24:11,519
Speaker 2: called Angel and Blue, and I thought it should be

1245
01:24:11,560 --> 01:24:13,840
Speaker 2: Freeze Frame, you know, because I had a rock and

1246
01:24:13,960 --> 01:24:17,080
Speaker 2: thing for the first single, and I knew that the

1247
01:24:17,240 --> 01:24:22,360
Speaker 2: album was going to sell lots of records because disco

1248
01:24:22,520 --> 01:24:25,240
Speaker 2: was dying and you had bands like, you know, Bob

1249
01:24:25,320 --> 01:24:28,160
Speaker 2: Seger back on the charts, Joan Jet was back on

1250
01:24:28,200 --> 01:24:31,679
Speaker 2: the charts, all these bands that have been touring for years.

1251
01:24:32,200 --> 01:24:34,680
Speaker 2: You know, we're coming back and rock and roll was

1252
01:24:34,720 --> 01:24:37,280
Speaker 2: really having it stay in the sun again, and I

1253
01:24:37,360 --> 01:24:40,320
Speaker 2: knew the Giles band with the impact of Our Lives Show,

1254
01:24:40,840 --> 01:24:43,960
Speaker 2: it was our time. And EMI Jim Maza was the

1255
01:24:43,960 --> 01:24:47,120
Speaker 2: president at the time. He really believed this was the

1256
01:24:47,200 --> 01:24:51,599
Speaker 2: time for Giles. And so we're in the making of

1257
01:24:51,640 --> 01:24:54,280
Speaker 2: the video. My key number went out and of this

1258
01:24:54,400 --> 01:25:00,720
Speaker 2: ballad called Angel and Blue, a good song. And this

1259
01:25:00,840 --> 01:25:04,120
Speaker 2: fellow who was very close to me and really helped

1260
01:25:04,360 --> 01:25:06,920
Speaker 2: the band a lot. His name was Dick Williams. He

1261
01:25:07,000 --> 01:25:11,679
Speaker 2: was a promotion man for EMI America, and he went

1262
01:25:12,120 --> 01:25:15,439
Speaker 2: to Detroit, which was our one big market, and you

1263
01:25:15,479 --> 01:25:19,960
Speaker 2: would know this woman. You remember Rosalie, Uh yeah, yeah,

1264
01:25:20,040 --> 01:25:24,439
Speaker 2: the DJ. Yes, she was well, she was no a DJ,

1265
01:25:24,600 --> 01:25:28,120
Speaker 2: she was program director and she was considered to have

1266
01:25:28,560 --> 01:25:32,519
Speaker 2: the Golden ears. And so everybody took their records to

1267
01:25:32,680 --> 01:25:36,320
Speaker 2: Rosalie and if Rosalie certified it a hit, be it

1268
01:25:36,720 --> 01:25:41,439
Speaker 2: you know, uh you know, Muskrat Love or Captain and

1269
01:25:41,520 --> 01:25:43,960
Speaker 2: to Neil, whatever it was, it became a hit. She

1270
01:25:44,120 --> 01:25:48,000
Speaker 2: was so powerful, her taste was so powerful. She listened

1271
01:25:48,000 --> 01:25:51,760
Speaker 2: to the record and she said centerfold and so they

1272
01:25:52,800 --> 01:25:56,840
Speaker 2: Dick called up Jim Maza, president of em I called

1273
01:25:56,880 --> 01:25:59,160
Speaker 2: us we were making the video. Right in the middle

1274
01:25:59,200 --> 01:26:01,960
Speaker 2: of making the video for the song, he said, we're

1275
01:26:02,040 --> 01:26:06,800
Speaker 2: changing the single go what Go, Centophold, centophol Come on.

1276
01:26:06,920 --> 01:26:10,560
Speaker 2: That's kind of a fun song. But you know, and

1277
01:26:10,640 --> 01:26:12,200
Speaker 2: the rest, as they say, is history.

1278
01:26:20,120 --> 01:26:23,839
Speaker 1: Just staying on songs on the previous album. My favorite

1279
01:26:23,880 --> 01:26:27,200
Speaker 1: song is Comeback. Can you tell me the story of

1280
01:26:27,400 --> 01:26:28,879
Speaker 1: writing and recording Comeback?

1281
01:26:29,280 --> 01:26:34,360
Speaker 2: Well, come Back? Both we were big fans of the

1282
01:26:34,400 --> 01:26:38,960
Speaker 2: Ohio playoffs and the Ohio Players had songs like Fire

1283
01:26:39,520 --> 01:26:43,120
Speaker 2: and roller Coaster Ecstasy and things like that, and it

1284
01:26:43,160 --> 01:26:47,879
Speaker 2: Comeback was our attempt to try to capture the energy

1285
01:26:48,479 --> 01:26:52,599
Speaker 2: that the Ohio players had. And we would go see

1286
01:26:52,600 --> 01:26:55,400
Speaker 2: the Ohio Players all the time I did, and they

1287
01:26:55,400 --> 01:26:58,400
Speaker 2: were just you know, the show was amazing, There were

1288
01:26:58,439 --> 01:27:01,760
Speaker 2: coins amazing, They had this energy. So Comeback was an

1289
01:27:01,800 --> 01:27:06,360
Speaker 2: attempt to try to you know, without it going disco,

1290
01:27:07,040 --> 01:27:11,400
Speaker 2: you know, quote unquote where you know people might say, uh,

1291
01:27:11,760 --> 01:27:14,800
Speaker 2: mishoot by the Stones or you know Rod Stewart's you

1292
01:27:14,840 --> 01:27:18,400
Speaker 2: know attempt you know, people try to keep that that

1293
01:27:18,520 --> 01:27:24,880
Speaker 2: beat going. But uh, that's what really Comeback was all about,

1294
01:27:25,000 --> 01:27:28,559
Speaker 2: was trying to emulate the Ohio players.

1295
01:27:29,160 --> 01:27:31,120
Speaker 1: What's the best live show you ever did.

1296
01:27:32,720 --> 01:27:35,760
Speaker 2: Oh, that's really tough, you know.

1297
01:27:36,200 --> 01:27:36,320
Speaker 1: Uh.

1298
01:27:36,960 --> 01:27:40,120
Speaker 2: I'm not saying this to downgrade the Guiles band. Uh,

1299
01:27:40,160 --> 01:27:44,880
Speaker 2: but there are some solo shows that means so much

1300
01:27:44,920 --> 01:27:48,680
Speaker 2: to me. But I would think, you know, closing night

1301
01:27:48,840 --> 01:27:51,559
Speaker 2: at the film or when we played with Albert King

1302
01:27:52,360 --> 01:27:56,559
Speaker 2: and uh, the Allman Brothers Fillmore East was a really

1303
01:27:57,120 --> 01:28:00,839
Speaker 2: really special evening. Uh. And I remember all my brothers

1304
01:28:00,960 --> 01:28:04,479
Speaker 2: went till five six in the morning, Uh, playing I

1305
01:28:04,479 --> 01:28:07,920
Speaker 2: think five or six nights straight. The Pine Knob in

1306
01:28:08,000 --> 01:28:12,799
Speaker 2: Detroit was just you know, incredible. Selling out the Boston

1307
01:28:12,880 --> 01:28:16,879
Speaker 2: Garden for the first time, uh for the band, uh

1308
01:28:16,920 --> 01:28:23,160
Speaker 2: was incredible. And uh, of course Boston Garden, the old

1309
01:28:23,200 --> 01:28:26,680
Speaker 2: Boston Garden had no air conditioning, the small seats, you know.

1310
01:28:26,840 --> 01:28:31,280
Speaker 2: Being number one in your hometown was like the Celtics,

1311
01:28:31,439 --> 01:28:34,360
Speaker 2: you know, or you know the Bruins or the Red Sox,

1312
01:28:34,479 --> 01:28:37,920
Speaker 2: you know, winning the series, you know, the crowd, just

1313
01:28:39,320 --> 01:28:45,479
Speaker 2: the energy from the crowd was just so unbelievable an

1314
01:28:45,600 --> 01:28:50,960
Speaker 2: undeniable and the power of the bond between us and

1315
01:28:51,040 --> 01:28:55,280
Speaker 2: the band. So I can't pick one, but those those

1316
01:28:55,320 --> 01:28:58,400
Speaker 2: situations which is so important to my life. And you

1317
01:28:58,439 --> 01:29:00,760
Speaker 2: know to this day people come up and you said, oh, Peter,

1318
01:29:00,840 --> 01:29:02,719
Speaker 2: you know I saw you back in you know, the garden,

1319
01:29:02,760 --> 01:29:06,599
Speaker 2: blah blah blah blah. And there was one time I

1320
01:29:06,600 --> 01:29:11,719
Speaker 2: thought about would be great on Christmas Day to visit

1321
01:29:12,120 --> 01:29:17,240
Speaker 2: Belle Ricca and play a concert at the Bill Ricker Youth. Uh.

1322
01:29:17,240 --> 01:29:20,559
Speaker 2: It was like a you know, a jail or for

1323
01:29:21,600 --> 01:29:24,280
Speaker 2: young men who kind of lost their way and were

1324
01:29:24,320 --> 01:29:27,920
Speaker 2: trouble or robberies or you know, got caught up in

1325
01:29:28,000 --> 01:29:31,559
Speaker 2: drugs and stuff. And we did several Christmas concerts and

1326
01:29:31,600 --> 01:29:36,080
Speaker 2: those were really really very pertinent, very important. I remember

1327
01:29:36,600 --> 01:29:39,360
Speaker 2: after the show, we walked down the cells, all the

1328
01:29:39,360 --> 01:29:41,000
Speaker 2: guys and the cells now, oh, put out the hands.

1329
01:29:41,080 --> 01:29:43,599
Speaker 2: Yeah it's Gyles, Gyles, you know, thank you for coming.

1330
01:29:44,120 --> 01:29:50,080
Speaker 2: And those were, you know, very spiritually meaningful dates. But Hometown,

1331
01:29:50,240 --> 01:29:58,800
Speaker 2: Boston Garden, Cobo Hall, Detroit, Cobo Hall, Pineknob, those were

1332
01:29:58,840 --> 01:30:03,280
Speaker 2: the shows that were just incredible. And we did a

1333
01:30:03,320 --> 01:30:07,680
Speaker 2: show in Germany Rock Pals and we came over and

1334
01:30:07,720 --> 01:30:10,280
Speaker 2: we used our marching bands. We stayed up all night,

1335
01:30:10,439 --> 01:30:14,599
Speaker 2: we played I think that's available on YouTube and just

1336
01:30:14,640 --> 01:30:18,040
Speaker 2: the crowd being in Germany to this uh, you know,

1337
01:30:18,680 --> 01:30:24,200
Speaker 2: large you know, in this large arena and just having

1338
01:30:25,760 --> 01:30:28,519
Speaker 2: being in front of these people that obviously didn't know

1339
01:30:29,920 --> 01:30:33,439
Speaker 2: all the lyrics, you know, but the interaction was just

1340
01:30:33,760 --> 01:30:37,000
Speaker 2: you know, overwhelming. So for me it was, you know,

1341
01:30:37,080 --> 01:30:40,639
Speaker 2: that thing that brought me back to the Apollo. You're

1342
01:30:40,680 --> 01:30:45,160
Speaker 2: seeing artists being able to rave up an audience and

1343
01:30:45,240 --> 01:30:49,360
Speaker 2: being ten years old witnessing the first generation of rockers

1344
01:30:49,760 --> 01:30:52,439
Speaker 2: and remembering as a kid, you know, jumping up and

1345
01:30:52,520 --> 01:30:56,000
Speaker 2: down on my seat like a bouncing Mexican jumping bean,

1346
01:30:56,479 --> 01:30:58,559
Speaker 2: you know, and having a you know, a Matron come over,

1347
01:30:58,640 --> 01:31:00,880
Speaker 2: sit down, you know, putting flash lights, jumping in the

1348
01:31:00,960 --> 01:31:05,800
Speaker 2: aisles and dancing. I mean, those Guyle shows just to me,

1349
01:31:07,520 --> 01:31:14,040
Speaker 2: you know, where something that will never replace it could

1350
01:31:14,120 --> 01:31:19,200
Speaker 2: never you know, for me, they will always be memorable

1351
01:31:19,200 --> 01:31:20,040
Speaker 2: parts of my life.

1352
01:31:21,680 --> 01:31:23,960
Speaker 1: How about a couple of shows or a few shows

1353
01:31:23,960 --> 01:31:27,160
Speaker 1: of other racks that you just can't get out of

1354
01:31:27,200 --> 01:31:28,240
Speaker 1: your head, blew your mind?

1355
01:31:29,800 --> 01:31:34,920
Speaker 2: Oh well, you know, sitting about four or five feet

1356
01:31:34,920 --> 01:31:38,679
Speaker 2: away from Bob Dylan when I one of the first

1357
01:31:38,720 --> 01:31:42,880
Speaker 2: times a few times that maybe he performed the song

1358
01:31:42,960 --> 01:31:46,479
Speaker 2: that nobody heard called hard Ring on a Fall, was

1359
01:31:46,560 --> 01:31:51,040
Speaker 2: pretty incredible. Seeing the rolling thunder review, you know with

1360
01:31:51,080 --> 01:31:54,040
Speaker 2: Bob many times. Seeing about five or six of those

1361
01:31:54,160 --> 01:31:58,320
Speaker 2: was incredible. Seeing Jimmy Hendrix jump on stage with the

1362
01:31:58,400 --> 01:32:01,240
Speaker 2: Jeff Beck Group with Rod Stewart at Steve Paul seen

1363
01:32:01,920 --> 01:32:07,120
Speaker 2: was pretty incredible. There was there's so many Bob I

1364
01:32:08,040 --> 01:32:16,360
Speaker 2: would you know be you know, they're just I go

1365
01:32:16,439 --> 01:32:19,920
Speaker 2: to shows all the time, and you know, seeing Van

1366
01:32:20,040 --> 01:32:25,000
Speaker 2: Morrison at the Music Hall in Boston or when we

1367
01:32:25,080 --> 01:32:28,160
Speaker 2: played with him in Symphony Hall where he'd bring it

1368
01:32:28,200 --> 01:32:32,240
Speaker 2: down a ballot so low where you could hear a

1369
01:32:32,280 --> 01:32:36,160
Speaker 2: pin drop and just you could feel goosebumps going that

1370
01:32:36,240 --> 01:32:39,559
Speaker 2: he could transcend. You know, here's this little guy, you

1371
01:32:39,600 --> 01:32:42,519
Speaker 2: know and just all of a sudden, you know, have

1372
01:32:42,680 --> 01:32:46,040
Speaker 2: the entire audience in the palm of his hand doing

1373
01:32:46,160 --> 01:32:50,680
Speaker 2: with every great artist you know did, which was you know,

1374
01:32:51,640 --> 01:32:56,479
Speaker 2: kind of have a transcending moment. And that's what I call,

1375
01:32:56,520 --> 01:33:00,559
Speaker 2: you know, the concerts that give me goose bumps that

1376
01:33:00,640 --> 01:33:04,600
Speaker 2: you know, I remember seeing Art Blakey the Jazz Messages

1377
01:33:04,920 --> 01:33:09,280
Speaker 2: with Lee Morgan on trumpet and Art Blakey calling up

1378
01:33:09,439 --> 01:33:12,240
Speaker 2: you know, let's call up the Queen and this woman,

1379
01:33:12,760 --> 01:33:15,360
Speaker 2: you know, a fur coat and this big blonde wig

1380
01:33:15,400 --> 01:33:18,719
Speaker 2: would get up on stage, she sang the dirtiest words

1381
01:33:18,720 --> 01:33:23,760
Speaker 2: I ever heard, and uh turned out to be you know,

1382
01:33:23,880 --> 01:33:27,439
Speaker 2: Dinah Washington. And you know, I didn't really know the

1383
01:33:27,479 --> 01:33:30,240
Speaker 2: importance of the people I was seeing, but the impact

1384
01:33:30,280 --> 01:33:33,519
Speaker 2: on me was just I would never forget it. And then,

1385
01:33:33,920 --> 01:33:39,439
Speaker 2: you know, seeing Jackie Wilson at the Apollo and then

1386
01:33:39,520 --> 01:33:42,600
Speaker 2: having the honor to induct him into the Hall of

1387
01:33:42,640 --> 01:33:46,320
Speaker 2: Fame was a really great honor for me. And to

1388
01:33:46,400 --> 01:33:52,080
Speaker 2: also you know, induct Paul Butterfield Blues Band, and to

1389
01:33:52,120 --> 01:33:58,040
Speaker 2: induct Jesse Stone, the great songwriter, you know. Uh uh.

1390
01:33:58,320 --> 01:34:02,280
Speaker 2: So there are a lot of great times, a lot

1391
01:34:02,320 --> 01:34:04,840
Speaker 2: of great shows. You know, if you asked me to

1392
01:34:05,600 --> 01:34:08,600
Speaker 2: two hours from now, I'll think of thirty others. But

1393
01:34:08,840 --> 01:34:12,759
Speaker 2: I would say with the Guiles Band, you know, being hometown, Boston,

1394
01:34:12,800 --> 01:34:16,639
Speaker 2: finally Boston Garden, Madison Square Garden, but of course Detroit,

1395
01:34:16,760 --> 01:34:23,040
Speaker 2: Cobo Hall and Pineknob. They were very, very very special events.

1396
01:34:23,880 --> 01:34:25,400
Speaker 1: So what did you leave out of the book? What

1397
01:34:25,439 --> 01:34:27,160
Speaker 1: are some of the great stories left out?

1398
01:34:27,400 --> 01:34:29,599
Speaker 2: Oh, there's a whole lot left out because I did

1399
01:34:29,640 --> 01:34:31,439
Speaker 2: not want this to be a kiss and tell book.

1400
01:34:32,920 --> 01:34:36,479
Speaker 2: And you know, I left it out because I just

1401
01:34:36,520 --> 01:34:42,680
Speaker 2: wanted this to be my Valentine to the people I

1402
01:34:42,720 --> 01:34:47,320
Speaker 2: got to meet into a music industry that I think

1403
01:34:47,360 --> 01:34:50,800
Speaker 2: what you were trying to bring up earlier, that has

1404
01:34:50,920 --> 01:34:56,320
Speaker 2: been battered and shattered and lost so much of what

1405
01:34:56,560 --> 01:35:03,160
Speaker 2: made it, you know, intriguing and interesting. And you know

1406
01:35:04,680 --> 01:35:08,080
Speaker 2: when you mentioned about the digital world, I mean there

1407
01:35:08,200 --> 01:35:11,880
Speaker 2: was the aspect of garage band and being able to

1408
01:35:12,439 --> 01:35:15,080
Speaker 2: you know, have a single and maybe get that single

1409
01:35:15,080 --> 01:35:18,640
Speaker 2: played on your AM radio station and you know, it

1410
01:35:18,760 --> 01:35:23,000
Speaker 2: become a hit overnight. You know, those kinds of things,

1411
01:35:23,560 --> 01:35:29,719
Speaker 2: you know, just aren't there anymore. But then somebody might say, well,

1412
01:35:30,320 --> 01:35:33,760
Speaker 2: there's a playing field that everybody has an opportunity to

1413
01:35:33,840 --> 01:35:39,920
Speaker 2: post the music. But the ocean is so big, it's

1414
01:35:40,040 --> 01:35:43,719
Speaker 2: like almost the universal galaxy, and so how to find

1415
01:35:43,760 --> 01:35:48,480
Speaker 2: that little teeny planet makes it harder, But there are opportunities.

1416
01:35:48,680 --> 01:35:53,800
Speaker 2: So it's totally changed. But I come, I've always and

1417
01:35:53,840 --> 01:35:59,320
Speaker 2: I still do to this day. What's meaningful to me

1418
01:36:00,160 --> 01:36:04,680
Speaker 2: is the face to face into relationships with other musicians,

1419
01:36:05,280 --> 01:36:08,200
Speaker 2: with business and the record companies, sitting down in an

1420
01:36:08,200 --> 01:36:11,479
Speaker 2: office and talking about, you know, what you want to achieve.

1421
01:36:12,160 --> 01:36:16,080
Speaker 2: And in book world, unfortunately, there was a change when

1422
01:36:16,120 --> 01:36:18,120
Speaker 2: I signed with the Little Brown there was a change

1423
01:36:18,200 --> 01:36:20,200
Speaker 2: and a lot of the people that I want to

1424
01:36:20,240 --> 01:36:25,040
Speaker 2: work with so that, you know, changed the dynamics there.

1425
01:36:25,479 --> 01:36:31,400
Speaker 2: You know, it's still you know, an important publishing company.

1426
01:36:31,439 --> 01:36:36,360
Speaker 2: But I tend to really like the one on ones

1427
01:36:36,800 --> 01:36:39,720
Speaker 2: and the characters, like I mentioned the Big m and

1428
01:36:39,880 --> 01:36:44,080
Speaker 2: Ahmed and Wexler and Irving Azof and Bill Graham and

1429
01:36:44,439 --> 01:36:49,000
Speaker 2: you know uh and the artists themselves, you know, Reather

1430
01:36:49,520 --> 01:36:53,400
Speaker 2: and you know just you know, Sparky and all these

1431
01:36:53,520 --> 01:36:57,720
Speaker 2: crazy you know managers and Peter Grant and just it.

1432
01:36:58,960 --> 01:37:04,519
Speaker 2: It was so rich for me and as someone who

1433
01:37:04,640 --> 01:37:08,479
Speaker 2: was trying to catch these in literary form, there was

1434
01:37:08,520 --> 01:37:11,840
Speaker 2: so much to choose from because these characters were really

1435
01:37:11,880 --> 01:37:13,080
Speaker 2: great characters.

1436
01:37:13,560 --> 01:37:16,759
Speaker 1: So where does this leave you now? No one's gonna

1437
01:37:16,760 --> 01:37:19,519
Speaker 1: live forever. We ever gonna see you on the road again.

1438
01:37:19,600 --> 01:37:22,920
Speaker 1: You're gonna record more music? What's your state of mind?

1439
01:37:22,960 --> 01:37:25,160
Speaker 1: And what's the play on? Well?

1440
01:37:25,600 --> 01:37:29,960
Speaker 2: I was hoping the book would bring attention that a

1441
01:37:30,040 --> 01:37:33,720
Speaker 2: CD wouldn't in areas where a CD wouldn't go, or

1442
01:37:34,120 --> 01:37:37,479
Speaker 2: recording that I say CD, you know, streaming as you

1443
01:37:37,520 --> 01:37:42,240
Speaker 2: say and stuff. But I do have a great solo band.

1444
01:37:43,160 --> 01:37:46,760
Speaker 2: But just before I released the book, I did a tour.

1445
01:37:47,120 --> 01:37:50,599
Speaker 2: It was called an Acoustic Evening of Story and Song,

1446
01:37:51,240 --> 01:37:54,439
Speaker 2: and I had two great guitarists with me and we

1447
01:37:54,520 --> 01:37:57,880
Speaker 2: did a you know, a sort of an evening where

1448
01:37:57,880 --> 01:38:00,559
Speaker 2: I would play saying and then tell some of the

1449
01:38:00,600 --> 01:38:04,160
Speaker 2: stories that are in the book and not unlike what

1450
01:38:04,280 --> 01:38:07,760
Speaker 2: Ray Davies did with the first Storytellers and then what

1451
01:38:07,880 --> 01:38:13,679
Speaker 2: Bruce later did with his book. And I recently saw

1452
01:38:13,760 --> 01:38:17,519
Speaker 2: Roger mcgwinn here in Boston and he did one man

1453
01:38:17,680 --> 01:38:21,280
Speaker 2: show playing and telling stories. I thought it quite interesting,

1454
01:38:21,439 --> 01:38:24,240
Speaker 2: so I might do that plus go out and tour.

1455
01:38:24,840 --> 01:38:27,720
Speaker 2: So music's still with me. But I was hoping that

1456
01:38:27,800 --> 01:38:32,000
Speaker 2: the book, you know, reaches and I really appreciate you for,

1457
01:38:32,280 --> 01:38:35,200
Speaker 2: you know, giving me an opportunity to talk about the book.

1458
01:38:35,960 --> 01:38:40,840
Speaker 2: But I'm curious. I first heard about you many years

1459
01:38:40,840 --> 01:38:46,880
Speaker 2: ago with your letter and your forum and this controversial

1460
01:38:46,920 --> 01:38:50,600
Speaker 2: guy that was, you know, talking about ticket pricing and

1461
01:38:50,720 --> 01:38:54,439
Speaker 2: ticketmaster and his managers and you know, all that kind

1462
01:38:54,479 --> 01:38:57,520
Speaker 2: of stuff. How did you get started.

1463
01:38:59,120 --> 01:39:02,920
Speaker 1: Trying to make it very brief like you, although I'm

1464
01:39:03,120 --> 01:39:06,160
Speaker 1: a little younger than you are, music was everything. If

1465
01:39:06,160 --> 01:39:08,639
Speaker 1: you wanted to know what was going on, you wanted

1466
01:39:08,680 --> 01:39:12,760
Speaker 1: to listen to the radio. People have no idea that

1467
01:39:13,080 --> 01:39:15,040
Speaker 1: working at a record car. You couldn't even get a

1468
01:39:15,160 --> 01:39:19,240
Speaker 1: job in a record shop because everybody wanted that job.

1469
01:39:20,479 --> 01:39:24,719
Speaker 1: And so I ended up going to law school because

1470
01:39:24,760 --> 01:39:27,599
Speaker 1: it's in a bad spot. I'd been sick. My father

1471
01:39:27,640 --> 01:39:29,839
Speaker 1: would pay for it. My father was a real estate appraiser.

1472
01:39:29,880 --> 01:39:32,320
Speaker 1: I had nobody in the business, so I said, at

1473
01:39:32,360 --> 01:39:35,400
Speaker 1: the time, the business was run by attorneys in the seventies.

1474
01:39:35,680 --> 01:39:36,559
Speaker 2: Growing up whereabout.

1475
01:39:36,600 --> 01:39:41,639
Speaker 1: I grew up in Connecticut, fifty miles from New York City, Infield, Connecticut, Fairfield, Okay,

1476
01:39:41,680 --> 01:39:45,320
Speaker 1: Fearfield between Bridgeport and Westport. So it's all New York media.

1477
01:39:45,400 --> 01:39:50,400
Speaker 1: You know, all the FM stations wr WNW. I mean

1478
01:39:50,600 --> 01:39:55,439
Speaker 1: that's sixty seven sixty eight. It was unbelievably fertile, and

1479
01:39:55,520 --> 01:39:57,880
Speaker 1: of course the shows you would go to the Pillmore East,

1480
01:39:57,880 --> 01:40:01,200
Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And it was always

1481
01:40:01,200 --> 01:40:04,000
Speaker 1: a dream to move to California, which I ultimately did.

1482
01:40:04,080 --> 01:40:06,360
Speaker 1: And you know, I could complain about LA all day long,

1483
01:40:06,400 --> 01:40:10,679
Speaker 1: but it's really pretty great. And I was the only

1484
01:40:10,720 --> 01:40:12,720
Speaker 1: person working in the movie business who wanted to be

1485
01:40:12,720 --> 01:40:15,400
Speaker 1: in the music business. You say it's reverse, but I

1486
01:40:15,479 --> 01:40:19,679
Speaker 1: worked for these big English managers who still manage Iron Maiden.

1487
01:40:20,439 --> 01:40:25,720
Speaker 1: I lost my job. I started this newsletter and what

1488
01:40:25,920 --> 01:40:29,360
Speaker 1: happened was that I had a free subscription to AOL

1489
01:40:29,400 --> 01:40:32,599
Speaker 1: through Warner Brothers Records, and I was an attorney such

1490
01:40:32,640 --> 01:40:37,840
Speaker 1: when the Napster hit, I was an expert. And there's

1491
01:40:37,880 --> 01:40:41,599
Speaker 1: a lot of stories there. But you know your point

1492
01:40:41,640 --> 01:40:43,960
Speaker 1: about d Anthony is well take and I could tell

1493
01:40:43,960 --> 01:40:47,000
Speaker 1: you a million stories like that where the money is primary.

1494
01:40:47,040 --> 01:40:49,920
Speaker 1: It's like for me. I remember when Tom Petty was

1495
01:40:49,960 --> 01:40:53,120
Speaker 1: playing the film More and he was not at the

1496
01:40:53,160 --> 01:40:56,800
Speaker 1: peak of his career, and I said, well, what does

1497
01:40:56,840 --> 01:40:59,439
Speaker 1: this mean going forward? And an agent said, I'll take

1498
01:40:59,439 --> 01:41:02,200
Speaker 1: that Billy any day of the week. You know, I'm

1499
01:41:02,280 --> 01:41:05,960
Speaker 1: like you, it's how does the record hit you? What

1500
01:41:06,160 --> 01:41:09,720
Speaker 1: is the emotion? Trying to articulate that the only thing

1501
01:41:09,800 --> 01:41:13,479
Speaker 1: better than a great record is sex, and we're all

1502
01:41:13,560 --> 01:41:16,760
Speaker 1: in search of those great records. And the great thing

1503
01:41:16,800 --> 01:41:18,880
Speaker 1: about records You put a five year old in front

1504
01:41:18,920 --> 01:41:22,320
Speaker 1: of a TV and they could say, oh, plot wasn't believable.

1505
01:41:22,760 --> 01:41:24,559
Speaker 1: About the most you can say about a great record

1506
01:41:24,600 --> 01:41:26,320
Speaker 1: has had a good beat. And I could dance to it.

1507
01:41:26,680 --> 01:41:28,880
Speaker 1: And the people who we analyze it beyond that are

1508
01:41:28,920 --> 01:41:33,080
Speaker 1: analyzing a level beyond the people who made it. So

1509
01:41:33,160 --> 01:41:37,960
Speaker 1: there's a passion for the music, and you know it's

1510
01:41:38,080 --> 01:41:41,720
Speaker 1: grown since then, and you know, you talk about all

1511
01:41:41,720 --> 01:41:43,800
Speaker 1: these came the listen. I was with Frank Riley on

1512
01:41:43,880 --> 01:41:48,439
Speaker 1: Saturday talking about you irving. You know, yeah, does my

1513
01:41:48,640 --> 01:41:53,360
Speaker 1: deals too. These are all it's a different business and

1514
01:41:54,040 --> 01:41:57,479
Speaker 1: music is forever. People don't understand that we're not at

1515
01:41:57,520 --> 01:42:01,320
Speaker 1: a peak. Yeah, people are consuming MUSI, but what it

1516
01:42:01,640 --> 01:42:05,000
Speaker 1: was and what it represented in the sixties and at

1517
01:42:05,040 --> 01:42:08,240
Speaker 1: other times they have no idea.

1518
01:42:08,479 --> 01:42:14,200
Speaker 2: But but you know, you're writing this newsletter. But how

1519
01:42:14,280 --> 01:42:15,240
Speaker 2: did it get started?

1520
01:42:16,560 --> 01:42:19,639
Speaker 1: Well, to be very literal about it, I was working

1521
01:42:19,680 --> 01:42:22,360
Speaker 1: for a management company, and you if you had a

1522
01:42:22,400 --> 01:42:26,760
Speaker 1: successful act, the big thing was to hire an independent publicist.

1523
01:42:27,360 --> 01:42:30,599
Speaker 1: And they used to write these bios that were just terrible.

1524
01:42:30,640 --> 01:42:34,519
Speaker 1: I had to rewrite them. I'm leaving out a chapter.

1525
01:42:35,400 --> 01:42:39,320
Speaker 1: I was in college. First semester in college. This is

1526
01:42:39,320 --> 01:42:40,640
Speaker 1: Middlebury College.

1527
01:42:40,280 --> 01:42:45,160
Speaker 2: In pan and we played it. I know it will is.

1528
01:42:45,160 --> 01:42:48,080
Speaker 1: The only time I ever did this. First semester, I

1529
01:42:48,200 --> 01:42:50,640
Speaker 1: called up the teacher day before paper Ducic, Can I

1530
01:42:50,680 --> 01:42:55,080
Speaker 1: do something creative? Said sure. I got an a. All

1531
01:42:55,120 --> 01:42:57,840
Speaker 1: the prep school kids said, oh, you're gonna flunk. And

1532
01:42:57,880 --> 01:43:00,400
Speaker 1: I called my mother on the payphone. I'm going to

1533
01:43:00,400 --> 01:43:04,120
Speaker 1: be a writer, okay. I took the writing class. When

1534
01:43:04,160 --> 01:43:07,519
Speaker 1: I would read, it was like springtime for Hitler. You know,

1535
01:43:07,640 --> 01:43:10,360
Speaker 1: it's like, you know the people who listen this I wrote?

1536
01:43:10,560 --> 01:43:12,559
Speaker 1: You know. Then I finally wrote about going to an

1537
01:43:12,560 --> 01:43:15,200
Speaker 1: Alice Cooper concert at the musical on the Killer Tour

1538
01:43:15,240 --> 01:43:18,479
Speaker 1: in seventy two, and the teacher said it was good,

1539
01:43:18,520 --> 01:43:20,840
Speaker 1: but it needed a twist. I said, you were It's

1540
01:43:20,920 --> 01:43:22,960
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy two. Did you ever hear of the new

1541
01:43:23,040 --> 01:43:28,000
Speaker 1: journalism twists? Forget that? I never wrote another thing. So

1542
01:43:28,080 --> 01:43:30,439
Speaker 1: then I was down and out. I went to see

1543
01:43:30,439 --> 01:43:35,080
Speaker 1: this job counselor. She gave me this work book that

1544
01:43:35,280 --> 01:43:37,600
Speaker 1: was attached to a legendary book called What Color Is

1545
01:43:37,640 --> 01:43:41,880
Speaker 1: Your Parachute? You had to write six essays and she's

1546
01:43:41,920 --> 01:43:44,640
Speaker 1: brag about yourself. This is just for yourself. This is

1547
01:43:44,760 --> 01:43:48,320
Speaker 1: now nineteen, you know, eighty four, So this is, you know,

1548
01:43:48,920 --> 01:43:51,519
Speaker 1: an excess of a decade since I wrote in college.

1549
01:43:52,080 --> 01:43:54,280
Speaker 1: And I wrote those things and I got back in

1550
01:43:54,360 --> 01:43:57,040
Speaker 1: touch with the fact that I like to write. I said, oh,

1551
01:43:57,120 --> 01:44:00,000
Speaker 1: I'll write stuff and send it to magazines. I did that,

1552
01:44:00,000 --> 01:44:02,479
Speaker 1: and I said, this is just like the music business.

1553
01:44:02,600 --> 01:44:05,639
Speaker 1: You got to know these people. And I was eating

1554
01:44:05,680 --> 01:44:10,559
Speaker 1: a hamburger one night reading billboard. Billboard's been up and down,

1555
01:44:11,320 --> 01:44:13,400
Speaker 1: but it was in a bad space. Then I said,

1556
01:44:13,400 --> 01:44:16,000
Speaker 1: this is terrible. I could do a better job than this.

1557
01:44:16,640 --> 01:44:19,880
Speaker 1: And all of a sudden something clicked in my brain said, wait,

1558
01:44:19,920 --> 01:44:23,840
Speaker 1: aren't there computers and all this other stuff. So I

1559
01:44:23,960 --> 01:44:27,320
Speaker 1: bought all that gear on credit. And there was a

1560
01:44:27,640 --> 01:44:30,680
Speaker 1: direct we call the Yellow Pages of Rock, and I

1561
01:44:30,880 --> 01:44:34,559
Speaker 1: sent out the newsletter in eighty six, primarily with the

1562
01:44:34,560 --> 01:44:39,040
Speaker 1: intention of getting another job. But the most interesting thing

1563
01:44:39,200 --> 01:44:42,880
Speaker 1: was only the most successful people subscribed the heads of

1564
01:44:42,920 --> 01:44:47,360
Speaker 1: all the labels they could hear a contrary opinion. So,

1565
01:44:48,400 --> 01:44:52,280
Speaker 1: you know, there's fifteen years there and then the Internet

1566
01:44:52,400 --> 01:44:55,519
Speaker 1: hits and I'm in the right place at the right time.

1567
01:44:55,960 --> 01:44:59,559
Speaker 1: And the Internet boosted my career, you know, because now

1568
01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:02,360
Speaker 1: I started to give it away for free instead of charge,

1569
01:45:02,400 --> 01:45:06,720
Speaker 1: and you can reach all these people. Listen, this is

1570
01:45:06,800 --> 01:45:10,120
Speaker 1: exactly what you do. You know, you're doing it all

1571
01:45:10,200 --> 01:45:14,400
Speaker 1: day long. You're never gonna write something or make something terrible.

1572
01:45:14,840 --> 01:45:18,840
Speaker 1: But you can only create an eleven every once in

1573
01:45:18,920 --> 01:45:22,920
Speaker 1: a while, and it's usually because a thought came to

1574
01:45:22,960 --> 01:45:26,040
Speaker 1: you in the shower or you're inspired and you lay

1575
01:45:26,080 --> 01:45:29,959
Speaker 1: it down. You're always in search of that, as opposed

1576
01:45:29,960 --> 01:45:31,720
Speaker 1: to the hacks. People say I don't know what a

1577
01:45:31,760 --> 01:45:34,920
Speaker 1: hit is. Believe me. It's like Al Cooper telling me

1578
01:45:35,080 --> 01:45:39,040
Speaker 1: they recorded Sweet Home Alabama a year before it came out, said, now,

1579
01:45:39,160 --> 01:45:40,519
Speaker 1: did you know it was a hit? He goes, it

1580
01:45:40,560 --> 01:45:45,519
Speaker 1: was sweet Home Alabama. So the key is to try

1581
01:45:45,640 --> 01:45:50,680
Speaker 1: to get that, and when you get that, the people resonate.

1582
01:45:51,360 --> 01:45:54,680
Speaker 1: The only difference is there used to be a pyramid.

1583
01:45:55,400 --> 01:45:59,439
Speaker 1: Pyramid's been blown to bits. Everybody is in their own business.

1584
01:46:00,160 --> 01:46:03,120
Speaker 1: If you walk down the street, ask people name to

1585
01:46:03,280 --> 01:46:05,880
Speaker 1: Taylor Swiss songs, they can even name them. Whereas you

1586
01:46:05,880 --> 01:46:08,800
Speaker 1: know in nineteen sixty five, I can sing every lick

1587
01:46:08,800 --> 01:46:10,880
Speaker 1: of Hello Dolly because I was waiting for the Beatles

1588
01:46:10,960 --> 01:46:16,679
Speaker 1: songs on the radio, so and somedd you know it all,

1589
01:46:17,040 --> 01:46:20,880
Speaker 1: the same thing remains. There's a lot of great streaming television,

1590
01:46:20,920 --> 01:46:24,400
Speaker 1: especially for me. You're waiting for something that touches you

1591
01:46:24,640 --> 01:46:30,200
Speaker 1: in a certain way. And if you can articulate that,

1592
01:46:30,200 --> 01:46:35,000
Speaker 1: that's what people resonate with, and people are hungry for

1593
01:46:35,120 --> 01:46:39,639
Speaker 1: that resonance. They want something they can connect with. And

1594
01:46:39,640 --> 01:46:40,840
Speaker 1: that's what I'm trying to do.

1595
01:46:41,360 --> 01:46:42,439
Speaker 2: And where are you based now?

1596
01:46:43,200 --> 01:46:44,879
Speaker 1: I'm in Los Angeles, okay?

1597
01:46:45,040 --> 01:46:47,519
Speaker 2: And how did you connect with Irving? How is that?

1598
01:46:48,360 --> 01:46:50,679
Speaker 1: I mean, I'll tell the real story I connected Irving.

1599
01:46:51,200 --> 01:46:57,680
Speaker 1: This is nineteen eighty seven. I wrote about Dan Folberg's

1600
01:46:57,720 --> 01:47:01,639
Speaker 1: same Old Lang Syne you know song. Met my old

1601
01:47:01,720 --> 01:47:05,680
Speaker 1: lover in the grocery store and I immediately heard from

1602
01:47:05,760 --> 01:47:09,120
Speaker 1: Irving and he says, you gotta come in. I gotta

1603
01:47:09,120 --> 01:47:11,840
Speaker 1: tell you the real story of that record. He was

1604
01:47:11,880 --> 01:47:13,400
Speaker 1: running MCA at that time.

1605
01:47:13,560 --> 01:47:16,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was. I was signed to MCA at that time, okay.

1606
01:47:17,240 --> 01:47:20,080
Speaker 1: And I went in and there's a lot of hilarious stuff.

1607
01:47:20,560 --> 01:47:23,479
Speaker 1: Tom Petty was recording a solo album and sales were low.

1608
01:47:23,520 --> 01:47:25,760
Speaker 1: He said, the deal is so rich, I'm not sure

1609
01:47:25,800 --> 01:47:28,000
Speaker 1: he wanted the record to come out at all. There's

1610
01:47:28,040 --> 01:47:30,000
Speaker 1: a lot to pay him. And he remember the fine

1611
01:47:30,040 --> 01:47:32,880
Speaker 1: young Cannibals. She drives me crazy. He knew that was

1612
01:47:32,920 --> 01:47:35,320
Speaker 1: going to be hit, but he says, I'm going to

1613
01:47:35,439 --> 01:47:37,960
Speaker 1: hire you to help Jimmy Buffett have a hit record.

1614
01:47:37,960 --> 01:47:41,000
Speaker 1: I'm gonna fly you down to the Key West. Fly

1615
01:47:41,160 --> 01:47:44,880
Speaker 1: down to Key West. Make a long story very short.

1616
01:47:45,680 --> 01:47:48,400
Speaker 1: Jimmy had already cut the record. Jimmy, you know, you're

1617
01:47:48,400 --> 01:47:51,400
Speaker 1: a rocket roller. Jimmy had so much money he didn't

1618
01:47:51,439 --> 01:47:53,960
Speaker 1: need the advance from the label to cut a record.

1619
01:47:54,800 --> 01:47:58,559
Speaker 1: And then I felt really embarrassed about the whole thing.

1620
01:47:58,600 --> 01:48:01,760
Speaker 1: You know, this is typical Irving before cell phones. So

1621
01:48:01,920 --> 01:48:04,000
Speaker 1: I call his office in LA. He calls me from

1622
01:48:04,000 --> 01:48:06,960
Speaker 1: the airport in New York and I'm stowing it on. Oh,

1623
01:48:07,080 --> 01:48:09,800
Speaker 1: you know, Jimmy's a big guy. Cut all the recorded. Now,

1624
01:48:09,880 --> 01:48:12,160
Speaker 1: Irving goes, how big a guy can he be if

1625
01:48:12,200 --> 01:48:16,479
Speaker 1: he only sells three hundred thousand records? And you know

1626
01:48:16,720 --> 01:48:21,040
Speaker 1: that was nineteen eighty nine. But you know, there's been

1627
01:48:21,080 --> 01:48:24,600
Speaker 1: a lot of chapters up and down with the Irving.

1628
01:48:24,920 --> 01:48:27,320
Speaker 1: You know, you know, Irving Irving's you know, changed to

1629
01:48:27,479 --> 01:48:29,640
Speaker 1: Irving's much mellower than he used to be.

1630
01:48:30,200 --> 01:48:33,120
Speaker 2: I know, I mean I wrote him as a Irving.

1631
01:48:33,520 --> 01:48:34,720
Speaker 2: You know, I want to send you a copy of

1632
01:48:34,760 --> 01:48:37,880
Speaker 2: a book, and he said, don't, I'll buy it. I

1633
01:48:37,880 --> 01:48:40,559
Speaker 2: don't know if he did. You know. I hope he did,

1634
01:48:40,600 --> 01:48:42,960
Speaker 2: because I think Irving would find you know, some of

1635
01:48:43,000 --> 01:48:46,479
Speaker 2: the chapters, you know, interesting because you know, it's an

1636
01:48:46,479 --> 01:48:50,720
Speaker 2: homage to the period that you know, he was so

1637
01:48:51,280 --> 01:48:55,080
Speaker 2: involved in. So if you speak to him, please, you.

1638
01:48:54,960 --> 01:48:57,760
Speaker 1: Know, well I definitely so I'll text him after we're here.

1639
01:48:58,680 --> 01:49:02,920
Speaker 1: And but you know, the this is a crazy business.

1640
01:49:03,439 --> 01:49:08,760
Speaker 1: People hate people they have never met. Okay, what they

1641
01:49:08,880 --> 01:49:13,600
Speaker 1: don't know about Irving is how charming he can be

1642
01:49:14,320 --> 01:49:17,240
Speaker 1: and how funny he can be, and that he is

1643
01:49:17,439 --> 01:49:21,479
Speaker 1: really supportive. People just hate him because he's the big guy.

1644
01:49:21,600 --> 01:49:25,360
Speaker 1: The other thing about Irving is they do not come

1645
01:49:25,880 --> 01:49:29,840
Speaker 1: any smarter. I remember being at his house after it

1646
01:49:29,960 --> 01:49:33,200
Speaker 1: ended with Live Nation, listening to him what he was

1647
01:49:33,240 --> 01:49:36,639
Speaker 1: going to do next, he was creating. He is always

1648
01:49:36,800 --> 01:49:40,400
Speaker 1: one step ahead, you know. You know some of these

1649
01:49:40,439 --> 01:49:42,720
Speaker 1: other players. Listen, the guy's gotten into it with me.

1650
01:49:43,240 --> 01:49:47,280
Speaker 1: But Geffrin, you know, it's a completely different agenda. Geff

1651
01:49:47,280 --> 01:49:49,840
Speaker 1: then needs you to kiss the ring and it's a

1652
01:49:49,880 --> 01:49:52,360
Speaker 1: power thing. It's not that way with the Irving.

1653
01:49:53,680 --> 01:49:55,800
Speaker 2: No, you know, as I told you, you know, I

1654
01:49:55,880 --> 01:49:58,679
Speaker 2: knew Irving, you know, when he was you know, starting

1655
01:49:58,720 --> 01:50:01,080
Speaker 2: out and had the vision and did you ever read

1656
01:50:01,600 --> 01:50:05,559
Speaker 2: Fred Goodman's book Mansion on the Hill, of course, yeah,

1657
01:50:05,560 --> 01:50:09,439
Speaker 2: that was a good one, absolutely, yeah at the time,

1658
01:50:09,600 --> 01:50:13,200
Speaker 2: you know, because in the premise of it was that

1659
01:50:13,400 --> 01:50:19,800
Speaker 2: the cart the horse was the artist and the cart

1660
01:50:19,960 --> 01:50:23,680
Speaker 2: was following the horse. And then by the end of

1661
01:50:23,720 --> 01:50:28,000
Speaker 2: the book, the artists become the cart and the business

1662
01:50:28,000 --> 01:50:30,679
Speaker 2: people become the horse where the artists are chasing after

1663
01:50:31,240 --> 01:50:32,320
Speaker 2: you know, the business people.

1664
01:50:39,920 --> 01:50:43,000
Speaker 1: You lived through the change somewhere in the late sixties.

1665
01:50:43,000 --> 01:50:46,040
Speaker 1: First you didn't have to record in CBS's studios anymore.

1666
01:50:46,520 --> 01:50:50,719
Speaker 1: The deals were such that you just delivered the record

1667
01:50:50,880 --> 01:50:53,960
Speaker 1: and they had to put it out. They couldn't say, oh,

1668
01:50:54,000 --> 01:50:58,040
Speaker 1: what the single was, etcetera, etcetera. Warner Brothers, you delivered

1669
01:50:58,040 --> 01:51:01,200
Speaker 1: the record that came out. The change was the early

1670
01:51:01,360 --> 01:51:05,880
Speaker 1: nineties when Tommy Mattola's they started wearing suits. This is

1671
01:51:05,920 --> 01:51:10,000
Speaker 1: not a business, you know the cliche that I love

1672
01:51:10,640 --> 01:51:14,200
Speaker 1: is and I worked in this business movie business. You

1673
01:51:14,280 --> 01:51:18,000
Speaker 1: have a percentage deal and your own money. You walk

1674
01:51:18,040 --> 01:51:20,640
Speaker 1: in everybody's wearing a three piece suit. They have the

1675
01:51:20,680 --> 01:51:24,240
Speaker 1: accountant and he explains very slowly, while you're not entitled

1676
01:51:24,280 --> 01:51:29,160
Speaker 1: to money in the record business, you walk in the

1677
01:51:29,200 --> 01:51:33,519
Speaker 1: guy's got a gold chain around his neck, no collar shirt.

1678
01:51:33,960 --> 01:51:37,280
Speaker 1: You ask about the money, opens his drawer, pulls out

1679
01:51:37,280 --> 01:51:41,920
Speaker 1: a gun and says what money, and result is the same.

1680
01:51:42,680 --> 01:51:47,000
Speaker 1: The down and dirty style of the music business, you know,

1681
01:51:47,520 --> 01:51:50,799
Speaker 1: was eclipsed by these people who thought they were bigger

1682
01:51:50,840 --> 01:51:51,680
Speaker 1: than the acts.

1683
01:51:52,200 --> 01:51:54,920
Speaker 2: I know one person I didn't write about, Mars Levy,

1684
01:51:55,160 --> 01:51:57,120
Speaker 2: you know, who I had some interaction with, who is

1685
01:51:57,200 --> 01:52:00,160
Speaker 2: quite a character, you know. And I don't know, did

1686
01:52:00,160 --> 01:52:02,760
Speaker 2: you ever see that film that Richard Perry made, was

1687
01:52:02,800 --> 01:52:08,519
Speaker 2: called Slice Steak? It was Richard made the film. He

1688
01:52:08,600 --> 01:52:12,519
Speaker 2: was married to Goldener's daughter, I believe, And it was

1689
01:52:12,600 --> 01:52:17,679
Speaker 2: when Mars was being inducted but for the United Jewish

1690
01:52:17,680 --> 01:52:20,439
Speaker 2: Appeal as the Man in the Year, and it was

1691
01:52:20,479 --> 01:52:24,400
Speaker 2: a dinner and Mars had pres parado I believe. It

1692
01:52:24,520 --> 01:52:29,080
Speaker 2: was maybe not play and a lot of the Latin

1693
01:52:29,120 --> 01:52:32,040
Speaker 2: ax and stuff and it it but it's the movie,

1694
01:52:32,120 --> 01:52:35,400
Speaker 2: you know, see. And Joe Smith acted as MC, who

1695
01:52:35,439 --> 01:52:41,400
Speaker 2: you know could be Yeah, he was, he was. He

1696
01:52:41,479 --> 01:52:46,960
Speaker 2: was just so a kind, ethical and a brilliantly funny man,

1697
01:52:47,280 --> 01:52:51,840
Speaker 2: you know. Yeah. And I always enjoyed seeing Joe and

1698
01:52:51,920 --> 01:52:54,400
Speaker 2: his wife. We'd go out many times and That's the thing,

1699
01:52:54,840 --> 01:52:59,559
Speaker 2: uh Bob is as like you you know, you know,

1700
01:52:59,840 --> 01:53:04,599
Speaker 2: the streaming and the availability and all that. I think

1701
01:53:04,600 --> 01:53:08,639
Speaker 2: it's great because on one hand, but then there's that

1702
01:53:08,840 --> 01:53:12,280
Speaker 2: build and that search and that going from town to town.

1703
01:53:12,600 --> 01:53:16,000
Speaker 2: And I'll end, I'll end with this. You know. I

1704
01:53:16,080 --> 01:53:21,280
Speaker 2: was talking to a guitarist who's in my band, and

1705
01:53:21,320 --> 01:53:24,559
Speaker 2: he's a brilliant guitarist, and he also teaches sometimes at Berkeley,

1706
01:53:25,120 --> 01:53:27,320
Speaker 2: and he was saying to me, Oh my god, these

1707
01:53:27,560 --> 01:53:30,880
Speaker 2: kids today, all they want to learn is these power chords.

1708
01:53:30,920 --> 01:53:32,800
Speaker 2: You know, they just want to play, you know, either

1709
01:53:32,880 --> 01:53:35,839
Speaker 2: just Stairway to Heaven or you know, Black Sabbath songs.

1710
01:53:35,840 --> 01:53:38,519
Speaker 2: You know, it's just they don't understand anything about music.

1711
01:53:39,360 --> 01:53:44,680
Speaker 2: I said, listen, I said, do you imagine you're seventeen

1712
01:53:44,760 --> 01:53:49,160
Speaker 2: years old, you're growing up in someplace like Indiana, and

1713
01:53:49,200 --> 01:53:54,840
Speaker 2: you're learning saxophone and you're taking lessons and then you

1714
01:53:54,960 --> 01:53:59,400
Speaker 2: learn about theory and composition and sight reading, and you

1715
01:53:59,520 --> 01:54:03,160
Speaker 2: play and a band comes through town maybe already sure,

1716
01:54:03,560 --> 01:54:06,360
Speaker 2: and he hears you playing and he says, come on,

1717
01:54:06,560 --> 01:54:09,679
Speaker 2: and you're on this band tour and for years you're

1718
01:54:09,720 --> 01:54:12,320
Speaker 2: on this bus with other guys, great players, and you're

1719
01:54:12,520 --> 01:54:15,479
Speaker 2: playing with people on the bills, with Duke Ellington or

1720
01:54:15,479 --> 01:54:19,400
Speaker 2: the Count Basie Band or Tommy Darcy band, and everyone

1721
01:54:19,520 --> 01:54:23,919
Speaker 2: is this incredible musician with this vast knowledge and singers

1722
01:54:23,920 --> 01:54:27,480
Speaker 2: that know, you know, how to harmonize and breath control

1723
01:54:27,560 --> 01:54:29,920
Speaker 2: and the whole thing. And all of a sudden, one

1724
01:54:30,000 --> 01:54:39,160
Speaker 2: day here don and boom the world like a hydrogen

1725
01:54:39,200 --> 01:54:43,840
Speaker 2: bomb explodes. And all those years seemed, you know, like

1726
01:54:43,880 --> 01:54:46,400
Speaker 2: when they were carrying out all the great big band

1727
01:54:46,480 --> 01:54:50,400
Speaker 2: records at BCN, I couldn't believe it because I didn't

1728
01:54:50,560 --> 01:54:54,880
Speaker 2: think they realized culturally, you know, what they were dismantling

1729
01:54:55,480 --> 01:54:58,160
Speaker 2: in this quote, what they would call the American Revolution.

1730
01:54:58,680 --> 01:55:01,160
Speaker 2: I understood it, and I think you would understand it

1731
01:55:01,360 --> 01:55:04,600
Speaker 2: because where they were at at that time. But you know,

1732
01:55:04,920 --> 01:55:08,320
Speaker 2: the greatness that was, you know, the mastering, the Doug Sacks,

1733
01:55:08,360 --> 01:55:12,360
Speaker 2: you know, the recording studios, Capital studios, the microphone, everything that,

1734
01:55:12,640 --> 01:55:15,000
Speaker 2: you know, the arrangers, everything that took place in the

1735
01:55:15,040 --> 01:55:18,720
Speaker 2: making of these great works of art, which is totally

1736
01:55:18,760 --> 01:55:24,680
Speaker 2: dismissed for Country Joe, you know. And so you know,

1737
01:55:24,720 --> 01:55:29,080
Speaker 2: there's a great movie, very hard movie to watch because

1738
01:55:29,280 --> 01:55:32,560
Speaker 2: technically it's so bad, but it's an Arson Wells movie

1739
01:55:32,920 --> 01:55:36,200
Speaker 2: called The Chimes at Midnight, and it's based on the

1740
01:55:36,280 --> 01:55:40,280
Speaker 2: Henry the Fourth, Part one and part four, where the

1741
01:55:40,280 --> 01:55:44,560
Speaker 2: main character is Falstaff, who is one of Shakespeare's you know,

1742
01:55:44,800 --> 01:55:48,600
Speaker 2: sort of buffoons, clowns, very wise, and he's teaching the

1743
01:55:48,680 --> 01:55:52,480
Speaker 2: young Prince, you know, how to drink, and he's introducing

1744
01:55:52,560 --> 01:55:56,760
Speaker 2: him to prostitutes. And but the movie starts off with

1745
01:55:56,840 --> 01:56:03,000
Speaker 2: these two old men walking through the rugged terrain and

1746
01:56:03,080 --> 01:56:08,880
Speaker 2: one says to the other, Uh, it's cold, it's so cold,

1747
01:56:09,200 --> 01:56:12,600
Speaker 2: and the other one says, yes, but we both heard

1748
01:56:13,040 --> 01:56:17,680
Speaker 2: the Chimes of midnight ring. And I think you and

1749
01:56:17,720 --> 01:56:21,280
Speaker 2: I have both witnessed the Chimes of Midnight, and I

1750
01:56:21,280 --> 01:56:25,920
Speaker 2: think what they meant was these great glory days when

1751
01:56:26,120 --> 01:56:32,160
Speaker 2: things seemed far more innocent, seem far more promising. And

1752
01:56:32,840 --> 01:56:35,880
Speaker 2: you know, not to get into it, but you know,

1753
01:56:36,480 --> 01:56:39,120
Speaker 2: we know that there are dark clouds gathering. You know,

1754
01:56:39,240 --> 01:56:42,680
Speaker 2: if you study history, like in nineteen thirty seven, thirty eight,

1755
01:56:43,160 --> 01:56:46,440
Speaker 2: you know, I had relatives that fought in the you know,

1756
01:56:46,800 --> 01:56:49,960
Speaker 2: Spanish Civil War, which was a you know, precursor to

1757
01:56:50,000 --> 01:56:56,680
Speaker 2: what you know, the horrible you know things that came later. So, Bob,

1758
01:56:56,760 --> 01:57:01,240
Speaker 2: you know, it's great talking to you. Please connect with Irving.

1759
01:57:01,400 --> 01:57:05,280
Speaker 2: Tell him I send my best, because you know, he's

1760
01:57:05,880 --> 01:57:09,920
Speaker 2: you know, been in and out of my life throughout

1761
01:57:09,960 --> 01:57:14,560
Speaker 2: the years, and I'm not sure if he ever forgive

1762
01:57:14,760 --> 01:57:18,400
Speaker 2: forgave me for not, you know, dismissing the anthony and

1763
01:57:18,440 --> 01:57:22,080
Speaker 2: going with him. You know, time proved he was quite right,

1764
01:57:22,360 --> 01:57:25,600
Speaker 2: he was the manager. But then again, you know that

1765
01:57:26,160 --> 01:57:28,120
Speaker 2: life teaches us in strange ways.

1766
01:57:28,520 --> 01:57:30,880
Speaker 1: Well, you know, it's funny, you're not the only act

1767
01:57:31,120 --> 01:57:34,240
Speaker 1: who said no with another one who's come back to

1768
01:57:34,280 --> 01:57:36,680
Speaker 1: me all these years later and said, you know, God,

1769
01:57:36,720 --> 01:57:39,280
Speaker 1: if I only knew. But just to stay on this

1770
01:57:39,440 --> 01:57:42,560
Speaker 1: one point when people don't understand. This guy a friend

1771
01:57:42,600 --> 01:57:45,600
Speaker 1: of mine who's the chairman of Guitar Center, and he

1772
01:57:45,720 --> 01:57:48,880
Speaker 1: was walking me through the musical instrument in history, and

1773
01:57:48,920 --> 01:57:54,440
Speaker 1: he says, it's a mature business. In the early sixties

1774
01:57:54,480 --> 01:57:57,240
Speaker 1: it was all independent labels. Then there were majors. It

1775
01:57:57,280 --> 01:58:01,960
Speaker 1: was all branch distribution except for CBS. The business became

1776
01:58:02,120 --> 01:58:06,080
Speaker 1: more and more consolidated. There will always be music, but

1777
01:58:06,160 --> 01:58:11,200
Speaker 1: we live through this one time. However, it is always

1778
01:58:11,320 --> 01:58:16,440
Speaker 1: an entrepreneurial business. It is always somebody at home with

1779
01:58:16,560 --> 01:58:20,160
Speaker 1: an idea. So no matter how much direct there might be,

1780
01:58:20,280 --> 01:58:23,120
Speaker 1: whether it be Bobby Rydell and Fabian in the late

1781
01:58:23,160 --> 01:58:28,800
Speaker 1: fifties early sixties, today it's not easy to make it

1782
01:58:28,840 --> 01:58:31,240
Speaker 1: from A to Z and no one is helping you.

1783
01:58:31,680 --> 01:58:35,960
Speaker 1: But if you do something unique, people are looking for that,

1784
01:58:36,200 --> 01:58:39,840
Speaker 1: and it's always some new irving as off. It's not

1785
01:58:39,960 --> 01:58:43,600
Speaker 1: like going to work for Procter and Gamble. So we

1786
01:58:43,760 --> 01:58:47,400
Speaker 1: know sixty years later we never got a new Beatles,

1787
01:58:47,440 --> 01:58:50,040
Speaker 1: never gonna happen. Are we ever going to reach that

1788
01:58:50,080 --> 01:58:54,760
Speaker 1: peak again? Maybe not in our lifetimes, But the Doldrums

1789
01:58:54,800 --> 01:58:58,480
Speaker 1: were in artistically. Listen, you're a middle class guy as

1790
01:58:58,520 --> 01:59:02,360
Speaker 1: I am. Jeff an Airplane build Graham Management, and they

1791
01:59:02,360 --> 01:59:04,640
Speaker 1: say whenever they made money, they just want to stay

1792
01:59:04,640 --> 01:59:09,320
Speaker 1: home and smoke dope. They spoke truth to power. Life

1793
01:59:09,400 --> 01:59:13,880
Speaker 1: is so difficult today financially that the middle class people,

1794
01:59:13,960 --> 01:59:15,880
Speaker 1: no one ever wanted their kid to be an artist.

1795
01:59:16,800 --> 01:59:20,880
Speaker 1: But today the people say, man, life is so hard.

1796
01:59:20,960 --> 01:59:22,480
Speaker 1: I got to get a job. I got to work

1797
01:59:22,520 --> 01:59:26,320
Speaker 1: in finance. So only the lower classes who are on

1798
01:59:26,360 --> 01:59:29,600
Speaker 1: a lark, who will do whatever people tell them to do,

1799
01:59:30,840 --> 01:59:36,720
Speaker 1: are the ones involved. Listen a record speaking truth to

1800
01:59:36,840 --> 01:59:42,400
Speaker 1: power has more power than any politician, any individual. You

1801
01:59:42,560 --> 01:59:47,480
Speaker 1: need a culture to grow that. But the paradigm always exists.

1802
01:59:47,800 --> 01:59:51,000
Speaker 1: Somebody captures lightning in a bottle. There's a truth in

1803
01:59:51,040 --> 01:59:55,200
Speaker 1: a record that is nowhere else. On that note, you're

1804
01:59:55,240 --> 01:59:57,040
Speaker 1: driving in the north Shore. Where are you going?

1805
01:59:57,520 --> 01:59:59,800
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm going to know as you're well, I might

1806
02:00:00,120 --> 02:00:03,080
Speaker 2: up to newbury Port or Gloucester somewhere up there.

1807
02:00:03,080 --> 02:00:04,360
Speaker 1: Well, you said you're going today.

1808
02:00:05,160 --> 02:00:08,240
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm going up to north Reading to record. There's

1809
02:00:08,280 --> 02:00:11,360
Speaker 2: a barn that I use. I made my last records there.

1810
02:00:11,760 --> 02:00:14,640
Speaker 2: I have an album that's about We would have been

1811
02:00:14,640 --> 02:00:17,000
Speaker 2: finished by now, but I stopped it for the book.

1812
02:00:17,040 --> 02:00:19,600
Speaker 2: But it's about I need to do harmonies, a couple

1813
02:00:19,640 --> 02:00:22,680
Speaker 2: of overdubs, and the mix is they're it's almost all

1814
02:00:22,920 --> 02:00:26,440
Speaker 2: mixed the way it's recorded, so it's almost ready to go.

1815
02:00:27,000 --> 02:00:29,960
Speaker 2: But a lot of my solo records, Bob, have become

1816
02:00:30,640 --> 02:00:34,280
Speaker 2: you know, well kept secrets. And you know I've done

1817
02:00:34,680 --> 02:00:38,840
Speaker 2: duets with you know, Shelby Lynn, Merle, Haggard, Steve Earle

1818
02:00:39,480 --> 02:00:43,440
Speaker 2: on these records. I've done with a great duet with

1819
02:00:43,520 --> 02:00:46,960
Speaker 2: Mick Jagger. You know, we nothing but the wheel. You know,

1820
02:00:47,200 --> 02:00:49,920
Speaker 2: there's some really if you don't have them. I some

1821
02:00:50,000 --> 02:00:53,960
Speaker 2: of them are not on Spotify or streaming because they've

1822
02:00:54,080 --> 02:00:57,160
Speaker 2: got returned to me and not being the brightest bowl

1823
02:00:57,200 --> 02:00:59,200
Speaker 2: by haven't placed them. But I'm going to in the

1824
02:00:59,200 --> 02:01:02,720
Speaker 2: next couple of weeks get that all settled up. And

1825
02:01:03,440 --> 02:01:06,720
Speaker 2: because the book was so consuming, I didn't realize how

1826
02:01:06,760 --> 02:01:10,480
Speaker 2: much energy it really would take. And then the audiobook

1827
02:01:10,840 --> 02:01:15,320
Speaker 2: you know, took about you know, about twenty hours of

1828
02:01:15,840 --> 02:01:20,040
Speaker 2: actual reading, and you know, they've become very very popular

1829
02:01:20,640 --> 02:01:25,560
Speaker 2: for people. That's a whole new business, that's very lucrative

1830
02:01:25,600 --> 02:01:26,440
Speaker 2: for book companies.

1831
02:01:27,120 --> 02:01:29,160
Speaker 1: Now, I just want to say, before I let you go,

1832
02:01:30,040 --> 02:01:33,640
Speaker 1: you're in the eye of the hurricane and you can't

1833
02:01:33,680 --> 02:01:38,920
Speaker 1: see what's going on. Writing is a lonely pursuit. And

1834
02:01:39,040 --> 02:01:42,360
Speaker 1: I'll write something, I'll think one of then I'll go somewhere.

1835
02:01:43,040 --> 02:01:45,360
Speaker 1: And they said, oh, yeah, everybody's talking about what you wrote.

1836
02:01:45,440 --> 02:01:48,520
Speaker 1: But BOS said, I didn't know. Okay, not that I

1837
02:01:48,520 --> 02:01:52,600
Speaker 1: don't get feedback. Your point about there not being books

1838
02:01:52,640 --> 02:01:58,040
Speaker 1: in the store, the book business so antiquated is just terrible. However,

1839
02:01:58,400 --> 02:02:03,800
Speaker 1: having said that, you obviously have no idea of the

1840
02:02:04,000 --> 02:02:07,720
Speaker 1: impact of your book. Let me be very clear I'm

1841
02:02:07,760 --> 02:02:10,879
Speaker 1: not talking about the people who read it. I'm talking

1842
02:02:10,960 --> 02:02:14,920
Speaker 1: about the press and the word of mouth. You have

1843
02:02:14,960 --> 02:02:19,880
Speaker 1: a higher profile than you've had since the eighties. You

1844
02:02:20,000 --> 02:02:22,400
Speaker 1: may not feel it because you're at the center of

1845
02:02:22,440 --> 02:02:25,760
Speaker 1: the high hurricane. But I'm reading all day long. I

1846
02:02:25,800 --> 02:02:28,040
Speaker 1: get email from people, Hey, you got to do a

1847
02:02:28,080 --> 02:02:32,440
Speaker 1: podcast with Peter Wolf. Okay, I get more about your book.

1848
02:02:32,960 --> 02:02:35,400
Speaker 1: I'm not blowing smoke up your eyes than anybody else

1849
02:02:35,520 --> 02:02:38,920
Speaker 1: this year. Something is going on.

1850
02:02:39,400 --> 02:02:42,080
Speaker 2: Okay, well, Bubby, I'm going to interrupt you say I

1851
02:02:42,120 --> 02:02:44,800
Speaker 2: do I really be taking your point. I don't feel

1852
02:02:44,800 --> 02:02:47,920
Speaker 2: it because it was, you know, this this thing that

1853
02:02:48,360 --> 02:02:50,640
Speaker 2: you know, the New York Times didn't even review it,

1854
02:02:50,760 --> 02:02:53,440
Speaker 2: you know, like it or bad, and so you know

1855
02:02:53,880 --> 02:02:56,280
Speaker 2: that moves a lot of books. I did this little

1856
02:02:56,320 --> 02:02:58,320
Speaker 2: thing with the New Yorker where I wanted to take

1857
02:02:58,640 --> 02:03:01,200
Speaker 2: you know, the reporter up to the you know, beause

1858
02:03:01,200 --> 02:03:03,640
Speaker 2: everybody talks about Brooklyn and show them where I live,

1859
02:03:03,720 --> 02:03:06,760
Speaker 2: where Dion live, the changes of the Bronx, you know,

1860
02:03:06,800 --> 02:03:10,000
Speaker 2: where the gangs were, all this stuff. And you know,

1861
02:03:10,120 --> 02:03:13,360
Speaker 2: we ended up at mcsorley's and drinking. And that would

1862
02:03:13,400 --> 02:03:15,720
Speaker 2: have been fine for the Guiles Band. You know, during

1863
02:03:15,760 --> 02:03:18,680
Speaker 2: a give it to Me times. But I was trying to,

1864
02:03:19,040 --> 02:03:23,000
Speaker 2: you know, represent Look, I'm a literary guy too, as

1865
02:03:23,080 --> 02:03:24,840
Speaker 2: much as I love rock and roll, and I can

1866
02:03:24,880 --> 02:03:27,880
Speaker 2: sit down and listen to you know, Carl Perkins or

1867
02:03:27,880 --> 02:03:31,160
Speaker 2: A Stone's or you two. I mean there, I can

1868
02:03:31,200 --> 02:03:35,720
Speaker 2: also read, and so I was trying to reinvent a

1869
02:03:35,760 --> 02:03:39,400
Speaker 2: different dimension. And so I don't feel it because, you know,

1870
02:03:39,600 --> 02:03:42,760
Speaker 2: when the book company tells me it's kind of weighing

1871
02:03:42,880 --> 02:03:46,000
Speaker 2: because new books are coming out. Like in the record industry,

1872
02:03:46,040 --> 02:03:49,360
Speaker 2: you have that moment where there's the release and you

1873
02:03:49,440 --> 02:03:51,760
Speaker 2: go out and you do the tour and you get

1874
02:03:51,800 --> 02:03:54,800
Speaker 2: on you know, blah blah blah blah bomb, and then

1875
02:03:54,840 --> 02:03:57,840
Speaker 2: all of a sudden you find less and less requests.

1876
02:03:58,360 --> 02:04:01,320
Speaker 2: And because there's a new bunch of albums coming out,

1877
02:04:01,560 --> 02:04:04,440
Speaker 2: the company is releasing some more albums than all of

1878
02:04:04,480 --> 02:04:08,440
Speaker 2: a sudden, if that album didn't gain a certain stature,

1879
02:04:09,520 --> 02:04:11,480
Speaker 2: you're yesterday's newspaper.

1880
02:04:20,160 --> 02:04:24,440
Speaker 1: Okay, the press always gets it wrong. I read that

1881
02:04:24,600 --> 02:04:27,600
Speaker 1: mcsor at Lea's piece. Okay, I understand your play. The

1882
02:04:27,760 --> 02:04:31,720
Speaker 1: great thing about the modern career is you are in

1883
02:04:31,800 --> 02:04:36,280
Speaker 1: control of your career. It's much harder to catch fire,

1884
02:04:36,880 --> 02:04:40,800
Speaker 1: so your profile is higher than it's been for years.

1885
02:04:41,440 --> 02:04:45,440
Speaker 1: In addition, there's only one Peter Wolf. There's only one

1886
02:04:45,480 --> 02:04:48,040
Speaker 1: Peter Wolf who had muddy waters come to his house,

1887
02:04:48,160 --> 02:04:53,880
Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. Unfortunately, the stories are eclipsing new music.

1888
02:04:54,440 --> 02:04:57,560
Speaker 1: Your point about you put out a record, you'll get

1889
02:04:57,600 --> 02:04:59,880
Speaker 1: some reviews. It's over in a day. That's for every

1890
02:05:00,040 --> 02:05:02,960
Speaker 1: but even the Stones their new record doesn't really get

1891
02:05:03,200 --> 02:05:07,160
Speaker 1: that much exposure. But you have this unique thing, like

1892
02:05:07,240 --> 02:05:10,680
Speaker 1: you're telling me, oh yeah, you did these shows. You know,

1893
02:05:10,720 --> 02:05:13,680
Speaker 1: these acoustic shows. We told the stories. Now in the

1894
02:05:13,760 --> 02:05:17,440
Speaker 1: wake of the book, you can build a business. That's

1895
02:05:17,520 --> 02:05:21,200
Speaker 1: what the New York Times will review. Okay, let's be

1896
02:05:21,480 --> 02:05:26,680
Speaker 1: very clear, this is not easy. You have to work.

1897
02:05:27,200 --> 02:05:30,240
Speaker 1: You want to put some stories up on social media,

1898
02:05:30,280 --> 02:05:33,440
Speaker 1: but you have headway. I can't tell you how many

1899
02:05:33,440 --> 02:05:35,720
Speaker 1: people I know from your era who are dead in

1900
02:05:35,800 --> 02:05:38,480
Speaker 1: the water. Some can't even play clubs because they can't

1901
02:05:38,480 --> 02:05:42,640
Speaker 1: get advances. Okay, it's just yeah, oh yeah, I remember

1902
02:05:42,680 --> 02:05:47,000
Speaker 1: that guy. Something is going on with you at this

1903
02:05:47,120 --> 02:05:51,120
Speaker 1: particular point in time. You have a beachhead. I am

1904
02:05:51,160 --> 02:05:55,200
Speaker 1: a pessimistic lass half empty guy. Me too, but you

1905
02:05:55,280 --> 02:06:00,240
Speaker 1: should be more optimistic at this point in time. The

1906
02:06:00,280 --> 02:06:05,080
Speaker 1: other thing you have to realize is nothing reaches everybody.

1907
02:06:05,320 --> 02:06:07,680
Speaker 1: It's sad to New York Times and review your book

1908
02:06:08,080 --> 02:06:10,440
Speaker 1: the New York Times. If I write about something in

1909
02:06:10,440 --> 02:06:12,760
Speaker 1: the music because I reach more people than the New

1910
02:06:12,800 --> 02:06:15,480
Speaker 1: York Times. I'm not saying that to boast, but that

1911
02:06:15,600 --> 02:06:18,640
Speaker 1: audience is reading me, not the New York Times. So

1912
02:06:19,040 --> 02:06:22,680
Speaker 1: the book audience, yeah, retailers, etc. They're reading the New

1913
02:06:22,760 --> 02:06:26,600
Speaker 1: York Times. That's not where your audience is. And it

1914
02:06:26,720 --> 02:06:30,360
Speaker 1: is not easy to reach your audience, but you are

1915
02:06:30,400 --> 02:06:35,600
Speaker 1: in control of that. Okay. You know, I don't understand

1916
02:06:35,760 --> 02:06:38,720
Speaker 1: why you're not on social media with little bits telling

1917
02:06:38,800 --> 02:06:42,040
Speaker 1: these three. You have an endless supply. You could do

1918
02:06:42,200 --> 02:06:46,480
Speaker 1: twenty on muddy waters coming to your house once. Okay,

1919
02:06:47,560 --> 02:06:51,280
Speaker 1: this gets people somewhat excited, and then you capitalize it.

1920
02:06:51,440 --> 02:06:54,200
Speaker 1: Most people are not willing to work that hard. But

1921
02:06:54,240 --> 02:06:56,320
Speaker 1: most people, as I say, are dead in the water.

1922
02:06:56,400 --> 02:06:57,880
Speaker 1: And you're not well.

1923
02:06:58,040 --> 02:07:05,640
Speaker 2: Thank you, Bob. And this truly was a treat for me.

1924
02:07:05,760 --> 02:07:08,520
Speaker 2: And I have to tell you I was very nervous,

1925
02:07:09,040 --> 02:07:12,880
Speaker 2: uh doing this, really really nervous. There's a gentleman Steve

1926
02:07:13,040 --> 02:07:16,040
Speaker 2: Leeds and you gotta do Bob you got. And there's

1927
02:07:16,040 --> 02:07:20,040
Speaker 2: a fellow David Bieber, who used to do the art,

1928
02:07:20,440 --> 02:07:25,840
Speaker 2: the creative stuff for the Phoenix magazine and the alternative

1929
02:07:25,920 --> 02:07:29,640
Speaker 2: rock station up in the Salem forget the call letters.

1930
02:07:30,240 --> 02:07:33,240
Speaker 2: And David from day one read your music, you know,

1931
02:07:33,280 --> 02:07:37,120
Speaker 2: your your letters, and he just was would send you know,

1932
02:07:37,480 --> 02:07:38,960
Speaker 2: he would bring to me, he would send me. He

1933
02:07:39,080 --> 02:07:41,520
Speaker 2: just thought that they were the bee's knees. And David

1934
02:07:42,040 --> 02:07:44,360
Speaker 2: is one of my closest friends and one of my

1935
02:07:44,400 --> 02:07:47,560
Speaker 2: brightest friends. And he just took to you, still takes

1936
02:07:47,600 --> 02:07:50,120
Speaker 2: to you, you know. And he said, if you don't

1937
02:07:50,120 --> 02:07:53,360
Speaker 2: do Bob Show, you're just like insane. I said, well,

1938
02:07:53,440 --> 02:07:56,360
Speaker 2: it's it's industry. I don't really want to talk, Peter.

1939
02:07:56,680 --> 02:08:01,320
Speaker 2: Just do Bob Show, you know. And I was really nervous. Bob,

1940
02:08:01,360 --> 02:08:05,400
Speaker 2: and I really thank you because you know, you talked

1941
02:08:05,440 --> 02:08:08,200
Speaker 2: about the things or you asked me about the things

1942
02:08:08,240 --> 02:08:12,600
Speaker 2: I wanted to do, and plus just the ease that

1943
02:08:12,720 --> 02:08:16,640
Speaker 2: you have made it. Maybe I you know, don't stop

1944
02:08:16,680 --> 02:08:18,680
Speaker 2: me talking. I'll tell you everything. I know. Maybe I

1945
02:08:18,800 --> 02:08:24,040
Speaker 2: yact too much, but your last words to me, I

1946
02:08:24,320 --> 02:08:28,640
Speaker 2: got to tell you I am in a very bad funk,

1947
02:08:28,800 --> 02:08:31,440
Speaker 2: because you know, I work so hard to try to

1948
02:08:31,800 --> 02:08:34,320
Speaker 2: get this thing, and people like Frank Riley. I don't

1949
02:08:34,320 --> 02:08:37,240
Speaker 2: know what your relationship is with him. You know, he's

1950
02:08:37,320 --> 02:08:42,120
Speaker 2: one of the last of the you know, greatue believers. Yeah,

1951
02:08:42,200 --> 02:08:45,880
Speaker 2: true believers, and you know, like Don Law who you know,

1952
02:08:46,240 --> 02:08:50,160
Speaker 2: live Nation. Frank Riley's my favorite agent because he fucking

1953
02:08:50,280 --> 02:08:53,360
Speaker 2: cares about his acts, you know, and you know I

1954
02:08:53,440 --> 02:08:56,280
Speaker 2: drive him crazy, but he puts up with it only

1955
02:08:56,320 --> 02:09:00,600
Speaker 2: because you know in particular about what I want to do.

1956
02:09:01,560 --> 02:09:05,400
Speaker 2: And I think you appreciate that. And I thank you

1957
02:09:05,440 --> 02:09:08,960
Speaker 2: for giving me this forum. And please let's stay in

1958
02:09:09,040 --> 02:09:13,240
Speaker 2: touch or I'd value that. And if you can see

1959
02:09:13,280 --> 02:09:15,640
Speaker 2: if Irving got the book. If not, I will go.

1960
02:09:15,840 --> 02:09:17,960
Speaker 1: About a text him when we're off. But I'm gonna

1961
02:09:17,960 --> 02:09:20,320
Speaker 1: tell you one more thing and then I'm gonna go. Okay,

1962
02:09:20,440 --> 02:09:24,160
Speaker 1: like on that record, I'm talking to you trying to

1963
02:09:24,200 --> 02:09:28,080
Speaker 1: figure out who you are. Okay, you're a guy from

1964
02:09:28,160 --> 02:09:31,240
Speaker 1: the Bronx. You wonder sell it, but you went to

1965
02:09:31,280 --> 02:09:33,840
Speaker 1: the High School of Music and Art. You're obviously a

1966
02:09:33,920 --> 02:09:37,480
Speaker 1: sharp guy. Okay, you had this left field for a

1967
02:09:37,640 --> 02:09:43,800
Speaker 1: rocker relationship with Faye Dunaway. You have these hit records,

1968
02:09:44,200 --> 02:09:47,880
Speaker 1: You're living in Boston, and then you tell all these

1969
02:09:47,920 --> 02:09:52,200
Speaker 1: stories about these people come into your house. Listen, I've

1970
02:09:52,200 --> 02:09:55,440
Speaker 1: been around rock stars enough to know everybody has a

1971
02:09:55,480 --> 02:10:01,160
Speaker 1: different style, and now I realize what it is. No

1972
02:10:01,200 --> 02:10:05,000
Speaker 1: one ever asked me about me sit there and ask her.

1973
02:10:05,040 --> 02:10:09,360
Speaker 1: I talked really fast. You were curious and interested. That

1974
02:10:09,520 --> 02:10:13,520
Speaker 1: is obviously the magic. It's not because you know you

1975
02:10:13,600 --> 02:10:18,800
Speaker 1: can do the the WBCM late night rap, but if

1976
02:10:18,880 --> 02:10:22,520
Speaker 1: to hang with somebody. Obviously these people wanted to hang

1977
02:10:22,560 --> 02:10:24,400
Speaker 1: with you, especially as musicians.

1978
02:10:24,440 --> 02:10:27,680
Speaker 2: You know, I didn't go on usually I researched, you know,

1979
02:10:28,120 --> 02:10:31,440
Speaker 2: uh and but I but I knew your name for

1980
02:10:31,520 --> 02:10:34,560
Speaker 2: so long and the people that are respected, But I

1981
02:10:34,600 --> 02:10:37,360
Speaker 2: wanted to hear from you. But I guess it's like

1982
02:10:37,440 --> 02:10:39,560
Speaker 2: the book. You would be a character in the book.

1983
02:10:39,680 --> 02:10:42,480
Speaker 2: Had we if I was out in la you know,

1984
02:10:42,800 --> 02:10:45,640
Speaker 2: doing the La Time Book Festival, I mean we would

1985
02:10:45,680 --> 02:10:47,920
Speaker 2: have you know, hooked up and had a dinner. You know,

1986
02:10:48,040 --> 02:10:51,280
Speaker 2: maybe would have dragged, you know, irving to Dan Tannis,

1987
02:10:51,320 --> 02:10:53,760
Speaker 2: where I used to out, you know, you know, with

1988
02:10:53,840 --> 02:10:57,160
Speaker 2: Henley and No. But I'm curious, you know, just as

1989
02:10:57,160 --> 02:11:02,280
Speaker 2: an artist, you know, you've created this you know platform

1990
02:11:02,760 --> 02:11:05,840
Speaker 2: in a time where so many people have tried, and

1991
02:11:05,880 --> 02:11:09,000
Speaker 2: you went from just like a recording artist, from vinyl

1992
02:11:09,400 --> 02:11:13,000
Speaker 2: into digital, you know, from vinyl into CD and now

1993
02:11:13,040 --> 02:11:16,840
Speaker 2: you're on the computer and everybody's talking about it. And I,

1994
02:11:16,840 --> 02:11:21,960
Speaker 2: I am telling you, I was very nervous, I mean,

1995
02:11:22,000 --> 02:11:23,920
Speaker 2: and then oh god, one thirty am I going to

1996
02:11:23,960 --> 02:11:26,160
Speaker 2: be in shape? I'm gonna be because you know, so

1997
02:11:26,320 --> 02:11:30,240
Speaker 2: many people I respect have great respect for you and

1998
02:11:31,160 --> 02:11:35,160
Speaker 2: I it was a mystery to me of how I

1999
02:11:35,240 --> 02:11:38,200
Speaker 2: knew the newsletter, but how did it start? I didn't know.

2000
02:11:38,280 --> 02:11:40,160
Speaker 2: I mean, so I'm just curious. And that's I guess

2001
02:11:40,480 --> 02:11:43,360
Speaker 2: the motivation of the book. How did Muddy you know,

2002
02:11:43,440 --> 02:11:47,240
Speaker 2: become a musician or you know talking toreth about you

2003
02:11:47,280 --> 02:11:50,240
Speaker 2: know stuff. When you ask what I left out? You know,

2004
02:11:51,120 --> 02:11:53,320
Speaker 2: I left out more of what you told me about

2005
02:11:53,360 --> 02:11:56,600
Speaker 2: Sam Cook and other things and you know, stones behind

2006
02:11:56,600 --> 02:11:59,120
Speaker 2: closed doors because I didn't want it to be kiss

2007
02:11:59,160 --> 02:12:04,720
Speaker 2: and tell my and I admire you because somehow I

2008
02:12:04,760 --> 02:12:08,720
Speaker 2: am probably in one of the most depressed states I've

2009
02:12:08,720 --> 02:12:13,040
Speaker 2: been in because feeling that this book is not achieving

2010
02:12:13,080 --> 02:12:15,800
Speaker 2: it And you may have picked it up, but just

2011
02:12:15,920 --> 02:12:21,839
Speaker 2: your words were so encouraging it. As you say with Irving,

2012
02:12:21,960 --> 02:12:25,800
Speaker 2: there's a kind of bond that happens. It's a mystical thing.

2013
02:12:26,240 --> 02:12:30,280
Speaker 2: It's like it's like I remember hearing Elvis Presley coming

2014
02:12:30,320 --> 02:12:32,440
Speaker 2: from a window in the Bronx and I ran to

2015
02:12:32,520 --> 02:12:36,640
Speaker 2: the record store to buy that song about being in

2016
02:12:36,720 --> 02:12:40,200
Speaker 2: a hotel, and you know, and it was heartbreak Hotel.

2017
02:12:40,280 --> 02:12:40,920
Speaker 1: I had to have it.

2018
02:12:41,360 --> 02:12:44,240
Speaker 2: You know, I'm first hearing Bob Dylan behind the curtain.

2019
02:12:45,040 --> 02:12:48,400
Speaker 2: I had to have more of that voice. It was mystical.

2020
02:12:49,000 --> 02:12:53,320
Speaker 2: And so, you know, I appreciate this afternoon, and I

2021
02:12:53,320 --> 02:12:55,480
Speaker 2: appreciate your words. I hope you're right.

2022
02:12:56,920 --> 02:12:58,800
Speaker 1: Well, you know, as I say, there's hard working for it.

2023
02:12:58,800 --> 02:13:00,600
Speaker 1: I'm gonna leave it with one or review story and

2024
02:13:00,640 --> 02:13:05,440
Speaker 1: then we can go. So before COVID, they had these

2025
02:13:05,480 --> 02:13:10,800
Speaker 1: big concerts at Dodger Stadium and they had three acts

2026
02:13:10,840 --> 02:13:12,960
Speaker 1: on one day and three acts on the other day.

2027
02:13:12,960 --> 02:13:15,080
Speaker 1: The headline on the first day was the Eagles. Headliner

2028
02:13:15,200 --> 02:13:17,520
Speaker 1: on the second day was Fleet with mac This was

2029
02:13:17,560 --> 02:13:20,920
Speaker 1: the first show with Vince Gill And I'm talking to

2030
02:13:20,960 --> 02:13:24,640
Speaker 1: Irving the next day and I said, what did Henley think?

2031
02:13:25,600 --> 02:13:29,360
Speaker 1: And he started talking about the monitors William during this song,

2032
02:13:29,480 --> 02:13:34,000
Speaker 1: the monitor mix was little off whatever, and I said,

2033
02:13:34,080 --> 02:13:37,560
Speaker 1: I heard it, but I guarantee you the average person

2034
02:13:37,560 --> 02:13:40,440
Speaker 1: didn't hear it, and Irving looks at me goes, it's

2035
02:13:40,480 --> 02:13:44,120
Speaker 1: the little things like that make the difference between great

2036
02:13:44,280 --> 02:13:49,320
Speaker 1: and everything else. You're talking about being particular, that is

2037
02:13:49,440 --> 02:13:53,360
Speaker 1: what makes you unique an individual. Someone says, I don't

2038
02:13:53,400 --> 02:13:55,840
Speaker 1: want to be an asshole, but it's got to.

2039
02:13:55,880 --> 02:14:01,440
Speaker 2: Be like this because I know, well, I want you

2040
02:14:01,520 --> 02:14:04,560
Speaker 2: to be my promotion man and go in or my manager,

2041
02:14:04,640 --> 02:14:07,000
Speaker 2: to go into the book company and tell him that's

2042
02:14:07,040 --> 02:14:10,920
Speaker 2: why he's driving you all crazy, because you know, we

2043
02:14:10,920 --> 02:14:12,680
Speaker 2: want it done that way. And I think that's the

2044
02:14:12,720 --> 02:14:16,320
Speaker 2: thing about Irving where Don and Glenn they were, you know,

2045
02:14:16,480 --> 02:14:20,040
Speaker 2: they were so obsessive, I mean, punching in vowels, you know,

2046
02:14:20,200 --> 02:14:23,400
Speaker 2: with the simsic And I remember being with Don when

2047
02:14:23,440 --> 02:14:26,200
Speaker 2: Axel Rose was doing a duet, you know, and how

2048
02:14:26,360 --> 02:14:30,840
Speaker 2: you know particular Don was and you know, yeah, it's

2049
02:14:30,880 --> 02:14:35,000
Speaker 2: it's that wonderful world that we're we're in and there

2050
02:14:35,040 --> 02:14:37,680
Speaker 2: ain't nothing that's going to drag us out, Bob. So

2051
02:14:38,800 --> 02:14:41,640
Speaker 2: may this be to quote a movie that I'm sure

2052
02:14:41,720 --> 02:14:44,600
Speaker 2: is a favorite of both of ours. May this be

2053
02:14:44,760 --> 02:14:47,560
Speaker 2: the beginning of a long, long friendship.

2054
02:14:48,720 --> 02:14:51,200
Speaker 1: And I'll leave you with Norman Lee or what he

2055
02:14:51,280 --> 02:14:53,040
Speaker 1: used to say whenever you were with him at a

2056
02:14:53,120 --> 02:14:56,920
Speaker 1: party you always said when he left, to be continued.

2057
02:14:56,800 --> 02:14:59,440
Speaker 2: Ah, I'm with you, Thank you, Bob.

2058
02:14:59,240 --> 02:15:03,240
Speaker 1: It Okay, that's been the great Peter Wolf. Till next time.

2059
02:15:03,600 --> 02:15:04,840
Speaker 1: This is Bob left, said

2060
02:15:26,520 --> 02:15:26,640
Speaker 2: Sh