WEBVTT - Are dentists scamming us? We investigate 0:00:11.560 --> 0:00:16.040 I'm Noah. This is Devin in today's episode. A question 0:00:16.239 --> 0:00:19.239 that nags at me every time I sit in one 0:00:19.280 --> 0:00:27.680 of their chairs. Our dentists scamming us. We dig into 0:00:27.720 --> 0:00:30.520 the dental industry surprisingly dark history. 0:00:31.000 --> 0:00:35.080 A lot of the replacement teeth were from corpses. 0:00:35.560 --> 0:00:38.800 We hear from someone who uncovered a dentist drilling healthy 0:00:38.880 --> 0:00:39.879 teeth for profit. 0:00:40.200 --> 0:00:41.839 How did I let this happen to me? Twenty eight 0:00:41.920 --> 0:00:42.400 rout canals. 0:00:42.440 --> 0:00:44.839 I must be stupid, and I talk with a startup 0:00:44.880 --> 0:00:48.080 founder who's trying to blow up the entire industry. 0:00:48.400 --> 0:00:51.720 Going to the dentist is one of the biggest scams 0:00:51.880 --> 0:00:52.960 of our modern time. 0:01:01.080 --> 0:01:07.040 I know there's no no touch thing, no touch, Thank touch, 0:01:07.480 --> 0:01:13.880 thank touch, thank touch, thank. 0:01:18.360 --> 0:01:20.960 All right, So in the studio today, we're joined by 0:01:20.959 --> 0:01:24.680 a friend of the pod, a licensed therapist and a 0:01:24.720 --> 0:01:28.160 writer of the Reality Test newsletter, Lily Caplin. 0:01:29.040 --> 0:01:31.839 Hi, guys, going, I'm so happy to be back. 0:01:32.200 --> 0:01:36.040 You may remember Lily from the Do I Need Therapy? Episode? 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:39.560 So we're glad to have you back for a discussion. 0:01:39.600 --> 0:01:44.959 Has nothing to do with therapy. I love that, but really, actually, 0:01:45.080 --> 0:01:49.640 specifically if we wanted you on this episode because at 0:01:49.680 --> 0:01:51.520 many and me as baby shower. A few weeks ago, 0:01:53.160 --> 0:01:56.520 at the after afters UH, we were all gathered around 0:01:56.560 --> 0:02:00.560 the table and I was complaining about dentists in Sea, saying, Hey, 0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:03.919 I think they're trying to scam me. I think dentist 0:02:04.040 --> 0:02:08.200 or scammers. We had some other people in the group saying, yeah, 0:02:08.919 --> 0:02:12.120 dentist are scamming us. And we had one dentist defender 0:02:12.160 --> 0:02:17.120 at the table. We had one person who said, guys, 0:02:17.919 --> 0:02:21.800 they're doing what they think is best. They care about 0:02:21.840 --> 0:02:26.080 your oral care. They're trying to prevent things from getting worse. 0:02:26.320 --> 0:02:29.600 And that was you, Lily. You were you were defending 0:02:29.639 --> 0:02:33.240 the dentists, which was which was I thought an interesting 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:37.280 take to have, because like brave, dentists have, as we'll 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:42.160 talk about in this episode, a pretty negative reputation. But 0:02:42.280 --> 0:02:45.680 you you came in there, you know, supporting them and 0:02:45.720 --> 0:02:50.080 speaking up for them, get to the voiceless exactly. 0:02:50.680 --> 0:02:56.600 So I think that my take on dentistry is a 0:02:56.639 --> 0:02:59.960 bit of a defense, a bit of a yo yo 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:05.960 from where I used to sit. So I've struggled with 0:03:06.040 --> 0:03:09.880 a bit more than a bit of what one might 0:03:09.919 --> 0:03:14.600 call dentophobia throughout my life. So I've been super, super 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:20.200 super avoidant of dentists, which has caused some problems for 0:03:20.320 --> 0:03:22.120 my teeth, and I had to get like a whole 0:03:22.160 --> 0:03:27.919 bunch of work done on my mouth, which was pretty 0:03:28.080 --> 0:03:30.600 painful and terrible, and I had to really overcome my 0:03:30.639 --> 0:03:33.880 fear of dentists and going to the dentist. I find 0:03:33.880 --> 0:03:36.360 it a very vulnerable experience to go to the dentist. 0:03:38.360 --> 0:03:41.400 And yeah, so I think coming off of that, like 0:03:41.480 --> 0:03:44.640 I was not, especially that night and probably still, I'm 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:48.960 not emotionally prepared to have the view that dentistry is 0:03:49.000 --> 0:03:51.560 a scam because I was so far in the other 0:03:51.600 --> 0:03:53.160 direction of like, I will not go to the dentist. 0:03:53.200 --> 0:03:55.320 I cannot go to the dentist. I can't handle the dentist. 0:03:56.280 --> 0:04:03.760 That the dentist did become truly necessary. And now I 0:04:03.800 --> 0:04:06.600 would say I am of the mind that like, you 0:04:06.640 --> 0:04:09.960 should go so that you don't end up like me. 0:04:11.000 --> 0:04:14.200 Ago, Yeah, no, talk us through. What What are your 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:16.680 dentist interactions been like over the years. 0:04:16.760 --> 0:04:20.760 Over the past few years? None, Okay, I'm going, I'm booked. 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:25.160 I'm booked to go soon. Long wait list, yes, which 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:27.000 which that was news to me because in the past 0:04:27.000 --> 0:04:28.960 I've been able to hop right over there. 0:04:29.880 --> 0:04:30.279 Yeah. 0:04:30.360 --> 0:04:32.320 Yeah, so I didn't have any trauma with I never 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:35.800 minded going, but I never It was just more of 0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:38.000 an inconvenient thing to do. But I did feel like 0:04:38.000 --> 0:04:39.360 my teeth were cleaner after. 0:04:39.720 --> 0:04:44.560 Yeah. So basically you're going for questions not regularly as we're. 0:04:44.120 --> 0:04:47.440 Yeah, we're hearing it's more laziness than, you know, than 0:04:47.560 --> 0:04:50.000 like a mistrust distrust. 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:55.479 Okay, So the reason we're doing this episode is because 0:04:55.520 --> 0:04:59.040 of my experience with the dentists. For most of my 0:04:59.080 --> 0:05:01.880 life up to up into high school, I had pretty 0:05:01.920 --> 0:05:05.440 limited interactions with this. Never had cavities besides when I 0:05:05.440 --> 0:05:07.279 was like a kid, so I was just going for 0:05:07.360 --> 0:05:13.039 cleanings until my senior year of high school. Well, we're 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:18.760 transport ourselves to the bowling alley in New Jersey where 0:05:19.839 --> 0:05:22.839 it's the final frame. It's me and my friends. We're 0:05:22.839 --> 0:05:26.880 going head to head and I am tied for last place. 0:05:27.680 --> 0:05:29.920 And if you're a bowling head, you know the one 0:05:30.000 --> 0:05:31.800 rule of bowling with your friends is you don't want 0:05:31.800 --> 0:05:34.040 to come in less. So I just need to hit 0:05:34.120 --> 0:05:37.400 one to not come in last. So I said, okay, 0:05:37.720 --> 0:05:39.760 I just don't just don't get a gutter ball. That's 0:05:39.760 --> 0:05:43.279 pretty easy. I don't know why. In my mind, you know, 0:05:43.320 --> 0:05:44.440 I think I want to be a little bit of 0:05:44.440 --> 0:05:46.560 a jokester too, So I was like, let me let 0:05:46.640 --> 0:05:49.080 me granny bullet. So are you familiar with brainy bowling? 0:05:49.320 --> 0:05:50.800 Is that where you do it between your legs? 0:05:50.880 --> 0:05:51.040 Yes? 0:05:51.120 --> 0:05:53.120 Yes, you put two hands on the ball, you sort 0:05:53.120 --> 0:05:55.919 of get your legs nice and wide, and you sort 0:05:55.920 --> 0:05:58.720 of pull it the ball between your legs and then 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:03.200 push it out. So I did that and I slipped 0:06:05.279 --> 0:06:07.880 fell on my face because my hands were up. Remember 0:06:07.960 --> 0:06:09.960 when you rainy bowl your your hands are going sure, 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:14.800 so they're above my head and chipped three or four 0:06:14.839 --> 0:06:18.280 of my teeth like on a on a diagonal. And 0:06:18.360 --> 0:06:20.960 I know it sounds horrific. It did not hurt at all. 0:06:22.520 --> 0:06:25.159 I knew immediately that my teeth came out because I 0:06:25.160 --> 0:06:28.719 could feel there was a gap. But I wasn't bleeding 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:31.640 and there was no pain. And the worst part is 0:06:31.760 --> 0:06:33.600 I went over the line. Yeah I was gonna ask 0:06:33.600 --> 0:06:35.960 about that. So it didn't even count. 0:06:36.000 --> 0:06:39.800 So lost you lost more than your four teeth? 0:06:39.920 --> 0:06:45.480 Yeah, Little did I know the trajectory of that would 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:50.080 put me on because replacing teeth is very, very expensive, 0:06:51.520 --> 0:06:54.000 So even with insurance at the time, I ended up 0:06:54.000 --> 0:06:56.840 having to spend like three or four grand out of 0:06:56.920 --> 0:07:01.120 pocket for it. And the thing that people don't think 0:07:01.120 --> 0:07:02.839 about when you get dental work is that it's not 0:07:02.880 --> 0:07:05.960 a one and done. If you get teeth replaced, you 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:09.760 have to get those teef replaced if you get it 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:13.320 done right, like every ten years or so. So and 0:07:13.400 --> 0:07:16.560 you're paying thousands of dollars every ten years or so 0:07:16.800 --> 0:07:20.040 to get those teeth replaced. So I've gone in to 0:07:20.200 --> 0:07:23.720 just replace the crown. But my dentist has been really 0:07:23.880 --> 0:07:27.280 really trying to get me to replace all of my 0:07:27.320 --> 0:07:28.840 fake teeth because she's like, I just want to do 0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:30.920 them all, make it all. Look, you know, the color 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:34.200 will match better. I can make the match better. And 0:07:34.240 --> 0:07:36.920 I was like, okay, theoretically that sounds fun. Like let's 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:39.280 find out how much is that gonna cost. She's like, okay, 0:07:39.320 --> 0:07:41.800 they run through the insurance, they get anstipate. It's like 0:07:41.800 --> 0:07:44.080 seven or eight grand. Okay, now let's just do the one. 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:45.320 They don't have like a bundle deal. 0:07:46.280 --> 0:07:46.960 That's what I was thinking. 0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:49.320 Yeah, I was like, you know, they're already all the 0:07:49.360 --> 0:07:50.280 tools are out already. 0:07:50.280 --> 0:07:53.040 Better if it's only gonna be slightly more expensive, you know, 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:54.040 like why not do it? 0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:56.200 But then they're all on the same timeline. 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:59.360 Exactly, So I told them, Now then you know, they're 0:07:59.360 --> 0:08:00.800 trying to convince me you can do a payment. I 0:08:00.840 --> 0:08:02.600 was like, I don't care if it's paying it right 0:08:02.640 --> 0:08:04.320 now or over a year. I don't want to pay 0:08:04.360 --> 0:08:08.560 seminar eight grand on teeth just for fun. Yeah exactly. Yeah. 0:08:10.440 --> 0:08:13.560 Later it's like I'm still paying, so no, thank you. 0:08:13.600 --> 0:08:15.400 So they, you know, they seem to get the message. 0:08:15.560 --> 0:08:17.800 I come back. And the thing, when you're getting teeth 0:08:17.800 --> 0:08:19.760 for place, you have to as you know, when you're 0:08:19.760 --> 0:08:21.640 getting work done, you have to go in multiple times. 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:22.840 So I had to go in like three or four 0:08:22.880 --> 0:08:26.360 times for this crown, and every time I would go in, 0:08:27.160 --> 0:08:29.320 it was as if I had not had that conversation 0:08:29.400 --> 0:08:30.880 with them that they were only doing the one tooth. 0:08:31.560 --> 0:08:33.520 So they would down to the last time I was 0:08:33.559 --> 0:08:36.559 going in to get my permanent in. The dentist was like, okay, 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:38.000 so this is going to take a bit longer because 0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:42.960 we're doing you know, all these teeth, and I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, 0:08:42.440 --> 0:08:46.120 we're not. So it just felt and I had liked. 0:08:46.280 --> 0:08:47.880 I've been going to this dentist for like two or 0:08:47.880 --> 0:08:50.600 three years now. I'd liked that dentist up to this point, 0:08:50.640 --> 0:08:54.480 but it just to me felt very scammy in a 0:08:54.520 --> 0:08:57.480 way of that, like I've been very clear if you that, 0:08:57.679 --> 0:08:59.760 and I was I was pulling that I can't afford it, 0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:02.080 you know. I was like, that's going to shut it down, 0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:04.160 Like you know, you could say whatever you want about 0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:05.840 like the cosmetics of it. I was like, I can't 0:09:05.840 --> 0:09:08.480 afford this right now. I just cannot afford to do it. 0:09:08.920 --> 0:09:10.520 And the fact that they were still bringing it up 0:09:10.520 --> 0:09:12.760 every single time, I was like, something's going on here. 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:16.360 And I have talked to other people who have been like, oh, yeah, 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:18.680 I've been going to the Dunets for years. It's been fine. 0:09:18.720 --> 0:09:20.200 I go to this random dudist. He says, I have 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:21.520 all these cavities, So I had to get all these 0:09:21.520 --> 0:09:26.680 cavities filled. So I guess with this episode, what I 0:09:26.720 --> 0:09:30.400 wanted to look into is is there a dental standard? 0:09:30.640 --> 0:09:33.080 What are dentists actually doing when they're in your mouth? Right? 0:09:33.559 --> 0:09:36.080 How do they determine you need a cavity field? Right? 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:38.960 Is there some sort of standard or are they just freestyling. 0:09:40.440 --> 0:09:42.640 And then I also want to deal with this idea 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:46.640 of dental insurance and why, with all these experiences that 0:09:46.679 --> 0:09:48.640 I've had, I've always had dental insurance, and I'm still 0:09:48.679 --> 0:09:52.040 paying thousands of dollars out of pocket. Why doesn't dental 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:56.760 insurance cover more of my oral care? So we're going 0:09:56.800 --> 0:10:00.360 to take a break. I'm gonna get back and walk 0:10:00.480 --> 0:10:03.559 you through my deep dive into the world of dentistry. 0:10:04.160 --> 0:10:07.600 We'll hear about its history. I'll talk to a dentist 0:10:07.720 --> 0:10:10.679 who found out a colleague was giving his patients unnecessary 0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:14.000 root canales, and a chat with a guy who says 0:10:14.000 --> 0:10:18.160 his startup will blow up the industry. All that. After 0:10:18.200 --> 0:10:36.080 the break. All right, we're back. We have a lot 0:10:36.120 --> 0:10:39.360 to get into in this episode. But first I wanted 0:10:39.400 --> 0:10:41.319 to try to learn how the hell we got here, 0:10:41.760 --> 0:10:45.160 so I called up journalists AJ Jacobs for a history lesson. 0:10:45.679 --> 0:10:45.880 Well. 0:10:45.920 --> 0:10:48.840 I like the premise because, for instance, I went to 0:10:48.920 --> 0:10:50.959 the dentists and they told me I had to get 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:53.320 my tooth out, Like, how am I supposed to know 0:10:53.360 --> 0:10:54.040 whether that's true? 0:10:54.120 --> 0:10:56.960 Yes, So AJ used to write this column for this 0:10:57.080 --> 0:10:59.360 magazine called Mental Flaws. 0:10:59.000 --> 0:11:03.400 And the column was called the Bad Old Days, because 0:11:03.400 --> 0:11:07.360 the premise was that the good old days were not good. 0:11:07.559 --> 0:11:13.960 They were terrible. They were dangerous, they were racist, sexist, smelly, 0:11:14.240 --> 0:11:16.160 they were just horrible, painful. 0:11:16.800 --> 0:11:19.400 In every month he would cover a new topic. In 0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:22.520 one of his most memorial months was when he covered dentistry. 0:11:22.720 --> 0:11:25.120 You know, I don't like going to the dentist, but 0:11:25.200 --> 0:11:28.720 I certainly don't like reading about the history of dentistry 0:11:28.760 --> 0:11:30.839 because it is just horrible. 0:11:33.960 --> 0:11:37.000 So let's say it's a seventeenth century you're having an 0:11:37.040 --> 0:11:39.760 issue with one of your teeth. AJ said, you would 0:11:39.760 --> 0:11:42.320 typically go to a barber surgeon. 0:11:41.920 --> 0:11:45.320 Which was a combination of a barber and a surgeon, 0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:48.439 and dentistry was often lumped in with surgery because you're 0:11:48.480 --> 0:11:52.319 taking stuff out of the body that was basically surgery. 0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:55.000 And an important thing to note is that during his 0:11:55.120 --> 0:11:59.440 time period, doctors did not perform surgery, So the church 0:11:59.600 --> 0:12:03.520 viewed surgery is being unclean because you were touching bodily fluids. 0:12:04.000 --> 0:12:07.520 So barber surgeons were seen as being more similar to 0:12:07.600 --> 0:12:12.719 something like a blacksmith. So back to our roleplay. If 0:12:12.760 --> 0:12:15.560 you have a toothake naved rip your tooth out basically 0:12:15.600 --> 0:12:17.240 with no anaesetic at all. 0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:19.920 Or maybe they'd give you some whiskey. 0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:21.600 Or something even weirder. 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:26.439 For some reason, in the seventeenth eighteenth century, medical practitioners 0:12:26.480 --> 0:12:30.640 were obsessed with enemas. There's not a huge overlap between 0:12:30.679 --> 0:12:33.280 your teeth and your butt, but they just were like, 0:12:33.760 --> 0:12:36.400 let's shoot things off the butt and see if that 0:12:36.520 --> 0:12:37.280 helps the teeth. 0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:41.240 So barber surgeons were basically your best case scenario back then, 0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:43.599 because there were also some straight up grifters. 0:12:46.200 --> 0:12:51.679 There was this crazy genre of traveling dentists and they 0:12:51.679 --> 0:12:56.559 were called toothpolers, and they were sort of like quack medicine, 0:12:56.600 --> 0:12:57.920 and they would put on a show. 0:12:58.120 --> 0:13:01.240 So they'd come to your town with music, they'd draw 0:13:01.320 --> 0:13:03.760 a huge crowd and then they'd pull out your teeth. 0:13:03.800 --> 0:13:06.000 And they would first bring up a shill, someone who 0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:09.480 was on their team and who had a fake tooth 0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:12.959 that they would pull out. But then people would volunteer 0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:16.480 and pay whatever it was fifty cents and go, and 0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:18.679 then they would pull out the. 0:13:18.720 --> 0:13:22.160 Teeth, and these drifters would signal for the band to 0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:25.240 play louder to drown out patient screams. 0:13:26.559 --> 0:13:29.240 And it was a spectacle, you know, people, he really 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:31.880 came to watch it. People watched it. It was like 0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:37.640 people loved executions. People back then, I mean sometimes now 0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:40.360 are sadistic, voyeuristic, horrible people. 0:13:40.679 --> 0:13:43.160 And there are some crazy stories about how these traveling 0:13:43.240 --> 0:13:45.080 dentists try to one up one another. 0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:47.960 One of the famous examples is that they would attach 0:13:48.320 --> 0:13:52.160 a string to the tooth and then the dentist would 0:13:52.160 --> 0:13:55.160 get on a horse and kick the horse to go 0:13:55.320 --> 0:13:57.920 in an opposite direction, and that's how they pulled the 0:13:57.960 --> 0:14:00.320 tooth out. Now, there is some evidence that was an 0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:03.880 apocryphal and nyvy didn't happen a lot or even ever, 0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:05.559 but that was the shot. 0:14:05.440 --> 0:14:07.959 And the dentists would use these shows to sell. 0:14:07.760 --> 0:14:12.400 The snake oil tooth ointments that were supposed to help. 0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:16.280 Aj also told me about the dark history of dentures. 0:14:16.559 --> 0:14:21.240 A lot of the replacement teeth were from corpses. So 0:14:21.760 --> 0:14:25.040 in the nineteenth century there was something called Waterloo teeth, 0:14:25.440 --> 0:14:29.280 and it was from the dead soldiers on the Waterloo 0:14:29.320 --> 0:14:32.640 Battlefield and other battles. Scavengers would go and they would 0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:35.560 take out the teeth and then dentists would put them in. 0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:38.800 Growing up, you may have heard about George Washington having 0:14:38.800 --> 0:14:39.520 false teeth. 0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:42.200 The rumor is that it was wood, but that's not true. 0:14:42.360 --> 0:14:45.600 Truth is much more disturbing that it was a combination 0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:50.600 of things. It was partly animal ivory from elephants and hippopotamus, 0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:54.120 but partly from enslaved people human teeth. 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:02.280 Aj says the transition from the quack based dentistry of 0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:05.440 the past to the science back dentistry of today didn't 0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:08.040 happen overnight, but there were incremental steps. 0:15:08.240 --> 0:15:13.680 There were a few landmarks that really helped. One was 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:18.080 the invention of nitrous oxide, which was very helpful because 0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:22.320 before you were just getting your teeth pulled with no anesthesia, 0:15:22.400 --> 0:15:24.200 maybe a little whiskey. 0:15:24.240 --> 0:15:27.880 And the germ theory was also another huge step forward. 0:15:28.000 --> 0:15:30.400 Back before the germ theory, these dentists would go in 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:33.280 with their dirty hands and they would cause more infections 0:15:33.680 --> 0:15:36.600 than if they just left it b So it was 0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:41.280 a gradual thing, learning about germs, learning about pain management. 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:44.640 And also the idea of prevention became a lot more popularized. 0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:47.440 The idea of brushing your teeth and even flossing. 0:15:48.000 --> 0:15:50.760 AJA also took a look at how culturally we viewed 0:15:50.800 --> 0:15:52.080 dentists over the years. 0:15:52.200 --> 0:15:58.320 If you google historical dentist illustrations you'll see, you know, 0:15:58.440 --> 0:16:02.920 they look like these distic monsters pulling teeth out, And 0:16:03.000 --> 0:16:07.040 I think that that reputation has continued. Like in pop culture, 0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:11.800 there's Marathon Man, who is this sadistic Nazi dentist. 0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:16.440 A life, freshly cut nerve is infinitely more sensitive. 0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:20.960 So I'll just go into a healthy tooth until I 0:16:21.040 --> 0:16:21.880 reached the pose. 0:16:22.440 --> 0:16:27.640 There's Steve Martin who was in the Little Shop of 0:16:27.720 --> 0:16:31.800 Horrors and like that song, He's got an entire song 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:37.880 about how much he loves inflicting pain on other people. 0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:44.040 Peteple will pay you. 0:16:44.160 --> 0:16:45.480 To be in humane. 0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:49.560 There's a line in when Harry met Sally when Meg 0:16:49.640 --> 0:16:56.280 Ryan says that her boyfriend's name is Sheldon, and Billy 0:16:56.400 --> 0:16:59.360 Crystal's like, well, he's not going to be a good lover. 0:17:01.160 --> 0:17:04.080 No, No, you did not have great sets with Sheldon. 0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:08.400 I did too, No, you did. Sheldon can do your 0:17:08.400 --> 0:17:11.680 income taxes if you need a root canal, Sheldon shumans, 0:17:11.960 --> 0:17:14.080 But humping and pumping is not sheldon strong suit. 0:17:14.480 --> 0:17:17.840 So the poor dentists get beat up on a lot. Yeah, 0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:20.600 and some of them I'm sure deserve it, because some 0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:23.680 I'm sure are still quacks and doing things they shouldn't, 0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:27.080 but I do believe a lot of them are out 0:17:27.119 --> 0:17:30.560 to make us healthier and make our teeth less painful. 0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:42.000 So that is the history of dentistry. Fast forward to today. 0:17:42.560 --> 0:17:44.639 Like I said, I am someone who has spent a 0:17:44.680 --> 0:17:47.480 lot of time going to the dentists over the last 0:17:47.480 --> 0:17:51.119 couple of years. And one of my biggest issues with 0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:56.080 the dentists is that it is so damn expensive. Right, So, 0:17:56.160 --> 0:17:58.800 a new study found that nearly one in three young 0:17:58.840 --> 0:18:02.080 adults have skipped it dentist in the past year because 0:18:02.480 --> 0:18:05.679 of cost. And one of the most frustrating things for 0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:08.680 me about dental care is that it is so expensive 0:18:08.960 --> 0:18:12.520 even if you have insurance. So I want to find 0:18:12.560 --> 0:18:16.439 out why the hell dental insurance does not cover more. 0:18:17.040 --> 0:18:20.200 So I call up somebody who cares about this a lot. 0:18:20.640 --> 0:18:24.160 I'm Sarah Stufan. I'm a general dentist in Iowa. 0:18:24.720 --> 0:18:29.000 So doctor Sarah is also a dental insurance expert and 0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:33.120 a spokesperson for the American Dental Association otherwise known as 0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:37.000 the ADA. She says, I am not alone in being 0:18:37.040 --> 0:18:41.400 confused by how little dental insurance actually covers. 0:18:41.600 --> 0:18:45.040 When we talk about patient satisfaction, and we talk about 0:18:45.080 --> 0:18:48.840 frustration and cost of care. This hits the nail on 0:18:48.880 --> 0:18:51.800 the head of what I hear from my patients is 0:18:51.840 --> 0:18:54.439 that they have some sort of dental benefit and they 0:18:54.440 --> 0:18:56.720 have expectations of what it's going to do for them, 0:18:56.840 --> 0:19:01.720 and then it turns out it's not not meeting those expectations. 0:19:02.480 --> 0:19:05.320 What we've seen with dental insurance over the past twenty 0:19:05.400 --> 0:19:08.680 years is that, you know, dental insurance has an annual maximum, 0:19:08.840 --> 0:19:12.360 and those maximums haven't changed. 0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:16.320 So to break this down, most dental plans have what's 0:19:16.320 --> 0:19:19.600 called an annual maximum, which is the maximum amount the 0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:22.520 insurance company will pay towards any care for the year. 0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:26.560 Over the last twenty years, that number hasn't really changed. 0:19:26.600 --> 0:19:31.480 And that's despite rising healthcare costs and inflation. So the 0:19:31.640 --> 0:19:34.639 value of your dental insurance, say twenty years ago, is 0:19:34.760 --> 0:19:37.879 not the same as it is today. Another way of 0:19:37.920 --> 0:19:40.040 thinking about this is if I gave you one hundred 0:19:40.080 --> 0:19:42.040 bucks to go to a grocery store in two thousand 0:19:42.040 --> 0:19:44.359 and six, how much would that get you versus one 0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:47.320 hundred dollars at the grocery store in twenty six. 0:19:47.680 --> 0:19:53.560 And that's frustrating because the idea and the expectation behind 0:19:53.720 --> 0:19:58.040 dental insurance is similar to most people base their experiences 0:19:58.080 --> 0:19:59.320 off of medical. 0:19:59.080 --> 0:20:03.320 But it turns out tental insurance is nothing like medical insurance. 0:20:03.640 --> 0:20:07.160 Dental insurance I think of more like a coupon. So right, 0:20:08.040 --> 0:20:10.080 and there's normally, you know, in the bottom of that 0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:13.040 cupon there was a bunch of uh, there's a bunch 0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:17.959 of asterisks like limitations and waiting periods and all these things. 0:20:17.960 --> 0:20:19.760 So when you get to the checkout, you find out 0:20:19.800 --> 0:20:21.480 that coupon isn't as great as you thought it was 0:20:21.520 --> 0:20:21.879 going to be. 0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:24.600 I mean, all this work that I spoke about, my 0:20:24.880 --> 0:20:28.040 insurance covered like zero of it, Like it was thousands 0:20:28.080 --> 0:20:32.880 and thousands of dollars, which I mean, just hearing that 0:20:32.960 --> 0:20:34.560 just honestly made me feel tired. 0:20:37.160 --> 0:20:37.880 No, it just sucks. 0:20:37.920 --> 0:20:40.360 It makes me really angry. Yeah, it's like it's such 0:20:40.359 --> 0:20:44.200 a it's a it's a promise like insurance insurance. The 0:20:44.280 --> 0:20:48.040 word insurance is a promise that you will be insured 0:20:48.119 --> 0:20:52.200 against something bad happening. But if something actually bad happens, 0:20:52.200 --> 0:20:55.720 like your dental insurance covers like what one two cleanings 0:20:55.720 --> 0:20:58.680 a year, it doesn't ensure you if something bad happens 0:21:00.160 --> 0:21:01.280 that happens, you're paying for it. 0:21:05.359 --> 0:21:08.879 Doctor Sarah says the ada's ideal dental plan has no 0:21:09.040 --> 0:21:11.480 annual maximum because. 0:21:11.160 --> 0:21:16.240 If you have some sort of problem that's beyond you know, 0:21:16.320 --> 0:21:19.439 say that one crown or that one crown or root canal, 0:21:20.600 --> 0:21:23.280 is it right for a patient to say, Okay, I'm 0:21:23.280 --> 0:21:25.000 going to wait on that until next year. 0:21:25.480 --> 0:21:26.560 Yeah. 0:21:26.680 --> 0:21:29.040 When we're talking about health, this is this is health. 0:21:29.920 --> 0:21:33.000 Somehow we've disconnected the mouth from the rest of the body, 0:21:33.640 --> 0:21:37.280 but healthy mouth is part of a healthy body. 0:21:37.800 --> 0:21:40.840 So the ADA is working on insurance reforms at both 0:21:40.880 --> 0:21:42.359 the state and federal level. 0:21:42.680 --> 0:21:44.840 And one of the big things when you talk about 0:21:44.960 --> 0:21:49.280 value for care is called dental loss ratio, which is 0:21:49.320 --> 0:21:53.040 basically the amount of your premium dollars that actually get 0:21:53.080 --> 0:21:58.280 spent towards care versus administration of the plan and things 0:21:58.320 --> 0:22:01.240 like that, and that already exists on the full side. 0:22:01.400 --> 0:22:04.800 Under the Affordable Care Act, medical insurance companies have to 0:22:04.840 --> 0:22:08.680 spend between eighty and eighty five percent of premium dollars 0:22:08.920 --> 0:22:12.719 on your actual care. Where there's no federal regulation on 0:22:12.840 --> 0:22:16.520 dental insurance. So I was actually able to find one 0:22:16.680 --> 0:22:20.080 insurance company in West Virginia who had a dentist loss 0:22:20.200 --> 0:22:22.280 ratio as low as thirty six percent. 0:22:22.680 --> 0:22:26.040 So some plans are putting a very low percentage of 0:22:26.080 --> 0:22:29.400 what you're paying for a premium actually into your care. 0:22:33.560 --> 0:22:35.639 So where's most of that money, like you're saying, is 0:22:35.640 --> 0:22:38.879 going well towards administrative cost and just profit. 0:22:39.560 --> 0:22:43.920 Right, we think it's important that patients their actual their 0:22:43.920 --> 0:22:46.960 premium dollars are going towards care rights. And that's the 0:22:47.040 --> 0:22:49.680 expectation for our patients, is that it's going towards care. 0:22:49.920 --> 0:22:53.119 It is like, this is exactly what people fear, is 0:22:53.160 --> 0:22:56.800 what's happening. Yeah, yeah, and it's right right under our eyes. 0:22:56.960 --> 0:23:02.919 Yeah, I mean, I can't say I'm surprised. Yeah, it 0:23:03.000 --> 0:23:05.480 is an expectation that I would like to have, but 0:23:05.600 --> 0:23:09.360 it's not an expectation that I've had for any kind 0:23:09.359 --> 0:23:10.640