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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, welcome to another episode of I Saw What

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Speaker 1: You Did. My name is Millie to Jericho, I'm Daniel Henderson,

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Speaker 1: and where are your film goals? Hi?

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Speaker 2: I'm like, try it out, let's see it's new.

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Speaker 3: I like it.

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Speaker 1: I was like listening to It's Raining Men the other day,

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Speaker 1: that song where It's raining Men, and this is at

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Speaker 1: the beginning of the song.

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Speaker 4: Goes, ha, where are your weather girls? I just was like, ha,

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Speaker 4: where are your film girls?

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Speaker 3: Listen?

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Speaker 2: I love it. It's now canon and we have to

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Speaker 2: do it in that like breathy like Hi, our longtime

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Speaker 2: listeners are gonna be like, what the fuck are we

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Speaker 2: listening to?

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Speaker 3: What has happened?

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Speaker 4: Where y'all film girls?

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Speaker 3: Will y'all film girls?

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Speaker 2: Ha?

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Speaker 3: What's up? How you doing?

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Speaker 1: I am like rare on to talk to you about

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Speaker 1: something because I noticed something on your social media recently,

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Speaker 1: which is that you have recently watched that show The Bear.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I watched it a couple months ago. Yes, like, well,

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Speaker 2: not the Couple. I guess it was like a month

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Speaker 2: and a half, like right before the holidays.

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Speaker 1: I watched The Bear, okay, And I just wanted to

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Speaker 1: say I have recently watched the Bear too.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, And.

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Speaker 1: I know we're extremely we're both extremely late to the

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Speaker 1: game because didn't that show come out in the summer.

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Speaker 4: It was like the summer smash.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, completely, And I don't know about you.

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Speaker 1: I'm always like at least six months after, like the

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Speaker 1: initial buzz, then I'm like, oh, I'll watch that show

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Speaker 1: or you know, And now that I have time.

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Speaker 4: I'm watching all the shows. So I was like, let's

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Speaker 4: do this Bear thing, okay.

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Speaker 1: And I wanted to ask you first of all because

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Speaker 1: I noticed, like when you were talking about it on Instagram,

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Speaker 1: you were like you loved it.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, it was.

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Speaker 2: It was the greatest show that I watched at at

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Speaker 2: all last year, but especially it was one of those

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Speaker 2: shows that it kind of reinforced or reinvigorated my my

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Speaker 2: notion of what working in television could be. It was

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Speaker 2: very inspiring in a weird way, because like, being a

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Speaker 2: TV writer is demoralizing it best, and I will not

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Speaker 2: get into that right now. I will talk to you

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Speaker 2: about it all year, but for the most part, you know,

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Speaker 2: as careers go, it's fine, but it's pretty demoralizing most

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Speaker 2: of the time, and that you have a lot of

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Speaker 2: very creative people trying to get a lot of very

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Speaker 2: not creative people to let them make their ideas. And

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Speaker 2: so I was really excited because I felt like The

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Speaker 2: Bear is a show that wasn't fucked with a lot,

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Speaker 2: and because it was better because of it, Like it

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Speaker 2: was just pure. And I actually, this is you know me,

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Speaker 2: you know me. I'm not really a name dropper, but

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Speaker 2: Christopher Storer, the guy who created The Bear, is a

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Speaker 2: friend of mine, and he's a great producer and he's

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Speaker 2: just truly a wonderful, wonderful man, and he's really smart

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Speaker 2: and very thoughtful and incredibly funny. And so what was

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Speaker 2: really inspiring to me about the show as well is

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Speaker 2: that it felt like I was seeing Chris on screen,

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Speaker 2: Like the way he writes, the way he talks, the

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Speaker 2: way he is aspects.

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Speaker 3: Of his life.

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Speaker 2: It felt like it was beamed directly onto the screen.

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Speaker 2: So when I was done, I wrote him this like

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Speaker 2: super emotional email. I was like, holy shit, like this

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Speaker 2: is inspiring and invigorating, and it just felt like I

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Speaker 2: was watching you on screen, and it was just like

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Speaker 2: really it affected me very much deep much more deeply

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Speaker 2: than I thought it would for a TV show. And

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Speaker 2: also I had like PTSD in the best way, because like,

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Speaker 2: if you've ever worked this is what I couldn't understand

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Speaker 2: last summer when this show was really popping off, everyone

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Speaker 2: was like, oh my god, yes chef this and yes

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Speaker 2: chef that and turning it into like.

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Speaker 3: A hornor yeah.

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Speaker 2: And I'm like, oh, if you've ever worked in a restaurant,

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Speaker 2: that is straight up a PTSD moment to hear people

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Speaker 2: yelling yes chef all the time. So I'm like, but

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Speaker 2: that's a good thing. Like it made me feel like

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Speaker 2: I was back in a restaurant.

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Speaker 1: Well yeah, I thought that too, but I've never worked

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Speaker 1: in a restaurant that was nice.

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Speaker 4: So I was like, there was never a yes chef.

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Speaker 1: There was no chefs basically, And I know that the

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Speaker 1: show was technically like I understand that the show was

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Speaker 1: about this character that wanted to take like any restaurant

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Speaker 1: that he worked in and make it like an elevated

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Speaker 1: experience and it gave people more steak in the game,

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Speaker 1: and he was trying to make a better work environment

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Speaker 1: by respecting people at that level. Right, Yes, even though

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Speaker 1: the place wasn't like a high end place necessarily, but

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Speaker 1: my experience where was like no one everyone hated the

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Speaker 1: job and nobody had pride.

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Speaker 3: Everyone was yelling.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there was yelling, but there wasn't like I mean,

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Speaker 1: I guess everybody was like not interested in creating the

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Speaker 1: food as much as I think those people on the

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Speaker 1: show were right. So to me, it was new information

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Speaker 1: in that way, which I totally agree, is it was

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Speaker 1: very exciting to watch that part of the show because

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Speaker 1: you know, I mean it was actually very anxiety inducing

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Speaker 1: because it was so stressful ye at points, but I

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Speaker 1: did appreciate that, like you know, hands on approach and

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Speaker 1: all of the sort of tricks of the trade type

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Speaker 1: of stuff.

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Speaker 2: That was so satisfactally. Oh, they nailed it, absolutely nailed it.

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Speaker 2: And just god, what's his name, Eben Moss the actor

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Speaker 2: was a cousin. Yeah, oh my god, I have no.

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Speaker 2: Nine hundred of that dude, And you fucking nailed.

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Speaker 1: It, Okay, because this is what I want to get

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Speaker 1: down to, brass fucking tax with you, mat.

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Speaker 4: Okay. So I watched the show.

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Speaker 1: I enjoyed it, Okay, Then of course I have to

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Speaker 1: go in on the research because I'm just you know,

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Speaker 1: it's like you watch something you like and then you're like,

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Speaker 1: I need to read all about it. Admittedly, I had

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Speaker 1: never seen the guy that plays the bear, Jeremy Allen, Yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: even though I know he was on that show Shameless

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Speaker 1: for like fifty years, right, isn't that fascinating. Shameless to

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Speaker 1: me is one of those shows where it's had like

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Speaker 1: twenty five seasons, but I've never seen it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I've seen the original version, like the UK version,

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Speaker 2: but I never dug into the American the remake. Yes,

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Speaker 2: And so I don't know who's on that show, and

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Speaker 2: I did not know that's where he came from.

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Speaker 4: And I gotta be honest, I kind of don't know

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Speaker 4: what it's about.

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Speaker 3: It's about. It's a family, a funny family drama.

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Speaker 2: About like an alcoholic dad and the oldest child who

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Speaker 2: kind of has to keep the whole family together.

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Speaker 3: Okay, like nine kids. It's like an endless amount of kid.

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Speaker 4: That's maybe what.

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Speaker 1: Because I would see so much promotional material for it

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Speaker 1: and it would just be like pictures of like William H.

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Speaker 1: Macy with like ten other people, yes, And I'm like,

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Speaker 1: how many people are on this fucking show?

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Speaker 4: What is this show about?

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Speaker 1: I guess I don't, but it's been on forever and

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Speaker 1: I was like, God, I feel like such a moron

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Speaker 1: because I've never seen it.

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Speaker 3: I have no idea what it could be. So it

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Speaker 3: was like one of those shows for me.

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Speaker 1: So when I was like going on the research hole,

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Speaker 1: I was like, who is this guy who plays the Bearer?

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Speaker 1: Because obviously he's the center of the show and he's

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Speaker 1: very compelling and interesting. Then I started reading articles about

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Speaker 1: him which were definitely written by the horniest people to

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Speaker 1: ever live completely and I was like, Oh, this is

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Speaker 1: really interesting.

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Speaker 4: And then all of a sudden, I was.

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Speaker 1: Reading articles that were sort of talking about this guy

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Speaker 1: as if he was this like sexy dirt bag, and

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Speaker 1: the term dirt bag just kept coming up over and

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Speaker 1: over and over again, and I was like, are they

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Speaker 1: saying that this guy's a dirt bag? And I'm like,

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Speaker 1: do I have a different definition of what a dirt

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Speaker 1: bag is?

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Speaker 3: Because we use.

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Speaker 4: The term dirt bag on this show pretty much every week.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, usually in reference to me.

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Speaker 1: Yes, But I'm also like, I guess I need a

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Speaker 1: better definition of what a dirtbag is for my own sake,

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Speaker 1: because I'm sitting here like I was reading those articles

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Speaker 1: going this guy's not a dirt bag. Who the fuck

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Speaker 1: is called this guy dirt bag?

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Speaker 2: Well, this is where I think those articles come from

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Speaker 2: a very class based place from, and they're written by

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Speaker 2: very horny people who have either never worked in a

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Speaker 2: restaurant or I've never had any kind of manual labor job.

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Speaker 3: Or known anyone who's had a manual labor job.

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Speaker 2: Because I'm like, oh, if this like fancy cute boy

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Speaker 2: is your idea of a dirt bag, then you have

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Speaker 2: genuinely never met a dirt bag.

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Speaker 3: No, genuinely.

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Speaker 1: Well, because there was this meme going around after the fact,

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Speaker 1: which I didn't understand because I had not seen the

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Speaker 1: show yet, about basically like, oh, if this guy is

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Speaker 1: a dirt bag, then you know, who would What would

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Speaker 1: you think about a dirt bag that I knew, who

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Speaker 1: was a guy that has like sleeve tattoos of SpongeBob

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Speaker 1: BDSM porn and has like four teeth?

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Speaker 3: What would you think of a guy who you know,

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Speaker 3: like that Mickey Rourke character in The Wrestler.

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Speaker 2: Yes, like he's just like shooting fucking pills and steroids

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Speaker 2: and his veins are all popping, and he like has

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Speaker 2: like he's keeping that eighties metal haircut going straight into

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Speaker 2: the twenty twenties, Like, talk to me about like he's

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Speaker 2: just like the kind of.

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Speaker 3: Man who would eat a burger out of the garbage. Yeah, like,

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Speaker 3: talk to me about dirt bags.

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Speaker 1: I think that we need to go over the taxonomy

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Speaker 1: what a dirt bag is, because here's a here's what

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Speaker 1: I think I think that the bear.

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Speaker 3: And I'm sorry if you've never seen the show.

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Speaker 1: I'm just like you might have to fast forward like

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Speaker 1: the next ten minutes because it's like we're gonna talk about.

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Speaker 3: This because it's important.

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Speaker 4: I need, I need, I need the rules of of

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Speaker 4: of what this is.

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Speaker 1: So like I want to know like the difference between

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Speaker 1: a dirt bag and a scumbag and maybe a hesher.

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Speaker 4: To me, oh, the bear is not a dirt bag.

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Speaker 1: No, in my in my understanding of it, the cousin

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Speaker 1: is a dirt back. In fact, the cousin is more

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Speaker 1: he kind of floats between a dirt bag and a scumbag.

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Speaker 2: Yeah right, And to me that is a psychological difference,

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Speaker 2: Like a scumbag is someone who has no affinity for

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Speaker 2: the human race, Like they have no no problem fucking

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Speaker 2: over people just for the for their own benefit and

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Speaker 2: just like they're not even considering anyone else's emotional life,

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Speaker 2: or or they're just not considerate of other people. It

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Speaker 2: is a purely narcissistic, selfish person who is also just

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Speaker 2: down and dirty, like makes gross decisions to fuel their

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Speaker 2: own selfish needs.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, a scumbag is like can't be trusted. Yeah whatsoever?

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Speaker 4: I think a dirt back.

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Speaker 1: And I gotta be honest because people are probably gonna

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Speaker 1: come at me about this because you know, I actually

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Speaker 1: went and looked up with the original I was like,

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Speaker 1: where did the term dirt back come from?

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Speaker 4: And a lot of it was pointing me towards like.

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Speaker 1: Rock climbers or mountain climbers from like after World War

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Speaker 1: Two were basically like dirty hippies, gotcha, dirty hippies that

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Speaker 1: like went to the mountains and then like ate out

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Speaker 1: of garbage cans and like stole coffee from like fancy

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Speaker 1: resorts and then just like lived in tents. Right, to me,

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Speaker 1: that feels like a little dirty hippie. I don't know

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Speaker 1: if I would call that a dirt bag, but I

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Speaker 1: just feel like, to me, dirt bag implies like so

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Speaker 1: kind of like alternative lifestyle where you're like off the

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Speaker 1: grid and you're like not showering, and you're, you know whatever,

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Speaker 1: eating trash.

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Speaker 3: Exactly.

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Speaker 1: I guess whatever trash is so to me the bear

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Speaker 1: simply because he is attempting.

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Speaker 4: To be responsible, like he's actually responsible. He wants to

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Speaker 4: pay the bills.

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Speaker 1: He doesn't want his cousin to deal cocaine in the restaurant.

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Speaker 1: I don't think that makes him a dirt back.

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Speaker 2: No.

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Speaker 1: I think just because he doesn't wash his hair, I

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Speaker 1: don't think that that makes even that doesn't even make

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Speaker 1: him a dirt back.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely not.

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Speaker 2: And he's also he's washing his hair, he's just like

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Speaker 2: he's This is the other thing that I think people

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Speaker 2: don't understand if you haven't ever been part of that life.

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Speaker 2: The life, the restaurant life pushes you to have a

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Speaker 2: very different schedule and lifestyle just by province of the

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Speaker 2: fact of what you're doing.

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Speaker 3: So you're either up really early, you're up really late.

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Speaker 2: You're really not focused on like you know, you're sweating

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Speaker 2: all day, so washing your hair is sometimes just like

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Speaker 2: splashing cold water on your face and a sink on

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Speaker 2: a hot day.

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Speaker 3: But when you go home, like there was one scene in.

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Speaker 2: The that again, I just I loved I thought they

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Speaker 2: fucking nailed it. There's one scene where you see him

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Speaker 2: go home and he just makes himself a peanut butter

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Speaker 2: and jelly sandwich and eats a bag of Dorito's, and

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Speaker 2: you're like, this is a fine dining chef, like someone

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Speaker 2: who actually has skills, but because he cooks all day

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Speaker 2: when he goes home, he ain't about that life.

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Speaker 3: But that does not make him a dirt bag. It

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Speaker 3: makes him a.

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Speaker 2: Fucking chef, a cook, Like, yes, a whole different lifestyle

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Speaker 2: to be in that world.

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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, that's what I mean.

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Speaker 1: It's like, is the threshold like all willy nilly at

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Speaker 1: this point, I'm just like, Oh, a guy that has

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Speaker 1: greasy hair and eats Doritos as a dirtbag. I was like,

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Speaker 1: I don't think that that is the definition that I

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Speaker 1: grew up with.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely.

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Speaker 2: The fact that this man had any stress at all

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Speaker 2: removes dirtbag from his life. Dirtbags don't have stress about

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Speaker 2: it anything. Yeah, they are not concerned with whether their

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Speaker 2: next meal is coming from, how their rent is gonna

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Speaker 2: get paid.

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Speaker 4: Yeah to me, to me, it feels like he's a

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00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:14,200
Speaker 4: little bit more. He's a nice guy, That's what I think.

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Speaker 3: Like, Oh, he's a nice guy.

289
00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:18,079
Speaker 2: No, he has nice clothes, Like he's selling his nice

290
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Speaker 2: clothes to pay for things for the restaurant.

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Speaker 3: And he's like, I've got these cool jeans, I've got

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Speaker 3: this like.

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00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:26,000
Speaker 2: One of a kind jacket. Like people who have those

294
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Speaker 2: things are not dirt bags.

295
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Speaker 1: Well, and the fact that he has problems with the

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Speaker 1: cousin is what makes him not a dirt bag. The

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Speaker 1: cousin is a straight up freak. Like he's a dirt

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Speaker 1: bag and a scumbag and a freak. So I'm like, okay, Well,

299
00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:45,800
Speaker 1: like the fact that he has anything to say about him.

300
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Speaker 4: Makes him the good guy.

301
00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:47,760
Speaker 3: He's a good guy.

302
00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:48,640
Speaker 4: He's at a dirt bag.

303
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Speaker 1: He's a fucking good He doesn't want people to sell

304
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Speaker 1: drugs at his restaurant, and he doesn't want there to

305
00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:59,320
Speaker 1: be xanax in kool aid at a kid's party.

306
00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:04,280
Speaker 2: Like hired ao Ed Aberri, who's fucking phenomenal in this show.

307
00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:07,840
Speaker 2: He's hired someone who he wants to be like also

308
00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:10,600
Speaker 2: in charge and help get the place up and running.

309
00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:13,720
Speaker 2: And that's just not a That does not a dirtbag

310
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Speaker 2: make it, Just doesn't I think that people are Again,

311
00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:21,440
Speaker 2: they're showing their class a little bit with the like, oh,

312
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Speaker 2: this guy's at dirt I'm like, he is a very

313
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Speaker 2: handsome and capable person who has a lot of responsibility

314
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Speaker 2: and you have never met if you've ever been to

315
00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:34,360
Speaker 2: an Iron Maiden concert like post nineteen eighties, then we

316
00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:36,400
Speaker 2: can talk dirt bag well.

317
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Speaker 1: And I think it, honestly, like the horniness for this

318
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Speaker 1: guy is really telling because it's like, if you grew

319
00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:47,960
Speaker 1: up knowing guys like this, you don't fetishize guys like this.

320
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Speaker 3: Absolutely not.

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Speaker 2: The fact that this character that Jeremy Allen White's character

322
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Speaker 2: also didn't hit on or fuck any of the staff.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it is clear not dirt bag behavior to me.

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Speaker 2: The fact that he respected his staff at all takes

325
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Speaker 2: him out of the realm of dirtbag. Like he's not

326
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Speaker 2: hitting on the eighteen year old waitress, he's.

327
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Speaker 3: Not trying to like fuck anybody.

328
00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:14,880
Speaker 2: Yes, And there's an episode where he's down there with

329
00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:18,040
Speaker 2: like a toothbrush basically cleaning the grout and like really

330
00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:20,920
Speaker 2: trying to like clean the restaurant. You have never seen

331
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Speaker 2: a dirt bag. A dirtbag chef wouldn't even wipe down

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Speaker 2: their own counter. Like they don't even wipe down their

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00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:28,720
Speaker 2: own station one hundred percent.

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Speaker 1: I was like, he's he can't be a dirt bag

335
00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:36,920
Speaker 1: because he's not having sex in the stock room, right

336
00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:39,000
Speaker 1: and things like of that nature, like he's.

337
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Speaker 3: In the walk in.

338
00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:42,760
Speaker 2: The walk in is like full depravity for a dirt bag.

339
00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:44,360
Speaker 2: Like the walk in is like a fucking den of

340
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Speaker 2: iniquity for a true dirt bag in a restaurant.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he doesn't seem to be doing drugs at work.

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00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:52,200
Speaker 1: He is not having sex at work. He wants to

343
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Speaker 1: run the business through legitimate means. He doesn't want shady

344
00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:59,960
Speaker 1: shit happening to me. That's not dirtbag behavior.

345
00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:02,240
Speaker 3: Well, even on a base level, he's not dirty.

346
00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:04,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't think he's dirty either.

347
00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:06,800
Speaker 2: He doesn't have the dirt part of dirtbag like a

348
00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:10,120
Speaker 2: true Again, true dirtbag in a restaurant. If you've ever

349
00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:12,960
Speaker 2: worked for someone who cooked your food but didn't clean

350
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:15,960
Speaker 2: their nails were like it looked like they worked on

351
00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:17,800
Speaker 2: a car all weekend and then just came in and

352
00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:21,919
Speaker 2: made you chicken bacada, that's a dirt bag. Yeah, we

353
00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:25,560
Speaker 2: can't just level it down to he's a dirtbag, because

354
00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:28,679
Speaker 2: I've never met anyone who who's again, like spent the

355
00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:31,800
Speaker 2: weekend dropping an engine into an old corvette. Like that

356
00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:34,200
Speaker 2: does not a dirtbag make Just because you've never met

357
00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:38,480
Speaker 2: that person doesn't mean that you can now ascribe the term.

358
00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:39,879
Speaker 3: To anyone that you want.

359
00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:41,879
Speaker 2: And I also I know that like the last when

360
00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:43,680
Speaker 2: when we were hanging out when I was in Atlanta,

361
00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:46,080
Speaker 2: and I remember I told you that I was like

362
00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:49,920
Speaker 2: reinvigorating my interest in Anthony Bourdain because for a long

363
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,600
Speaker 2: time while he was and I think that's where a

364
00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:53,800
Speaker 2: lot of this comes from, but for a.

365
00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:54,520
Speaker 3: Long time when he.

366
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Speaker 2: Was alive, I had such a visceral reaction to his fans.

367
00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:03,040
Speaker 2: And there are usually men, but just like men who

368
00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:04,640
Speaker 2: were just like, yeah, he's a punk rock he doesn't

369
00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:07,760
Speaker 2: give a fuck, and like the bravado of it turned

370
00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:10,760
Speaker 2: me off so much that even though I was a

371
00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:13,600
Speaker 2: very early fan of Anthony Bourdain, I became less and

372
00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:17,160
Speaker 2: less so as time went on, not because of him,

373
00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:21,399
Speaker 2: necessarily because of his fan base. And I have the

374
00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:25,320
Speaker 2: same reaction to David Foster Wallace fans, and like there's

375
00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:27,320
Speaker 2: a whole group of people where I'm like, your fans

376
00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:29,400
Speaker 2: make me never want to get into You're what you're

377
00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:32,879
Speaker 2: doing so in his death, I've been kind of going

378
00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:36,479
Speaker 2: back and rereading some of his books and rereading some

379
00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:38,960
Speaker 2: of the things he wrote, and visiting, like revisiting some

380
00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:42,199
Speaker 2: of his earlier TV work. And then I watched that

381
00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:45,840
Speaker 2: Roadrunner documentary on HBO, and I'm like, he was the

382
00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:50,800
Speaker 2: real fucking deal. And too many people are trying to

383
00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:55,000
Speaker 2: attach a kind of like an upscale like you said,

384
00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:57,120
Speaker 2: like a punk rock but also kind of an upscale

385
00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:01,560
Speaker 2: punk rock to who he was because he was successful,

386
00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:05,280
Speaker 2: and it just does it just doesn't work out. Like

387
00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:09,240
Speaker 2: he I think throughout his life, even with his success,

388
00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:11,000
Speaker 2: was a true definition of a dirtbag.

389
00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:14,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like he was never comfortable with his success.

390
00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:16,919
Speaker 2: He was never like he had to really learn how

391
00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:20,600
Speaker 2: to like be a person as an adult, Like.

392
00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:23,280
Speaker 3: He really went through it.

393
00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:25,760
Speaker 2: And I think that but his but his attachment to

394
00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:31,040
Speaker 2: the lifestyle of being a chef is what now has

395
00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:34,320
Speaker 2: become the standard for like you said, like this kind

396
00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:40,439
Speaker 2: of new wave of popularity and fame, and it just

397
00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:43,639
Speaker 2: doesn't work because it's not it's not real, it's not

398
00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:47,160
Speaker 2: it's so it's such an affect for most people that

399
00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:48,960
Speaker 2: it just doesn't work for me.

400
00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:51,679
Speaker 3: And I'm like he's he was the real deal. He

401
00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:54,159
Speaker 3: was a real dirt bag, and he was great at it.

402
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:58,960
Speaker 1: Well, and like there is something like I think that

403
00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:03,520
Speaker 1: what he did it was he brought a little pomp

404
00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:07,960
Speaker 1: and circumstance to the profession, Yes, because he admired it

405
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:09,960
Speaker 1: so much, and it was just sort of his personality

406
00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:12,960
Speaker 1: to be like, you know, I think that there is

407
00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:16,320
Speaker 1: I think he was in that moment of saying like, well,

408
00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:19,960
Speaker 1: what I'm doing is sort of noble and it's very honest,

409
00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:24,240
Speaker 1: and you know, I enjoyed the mythology around the world

410
00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:29,200
Speaker 1: that I'm in, you know, and that is from his perspective, right,

411
00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:30,680
Speaker 1: But then all of a sudden you have like the

412
00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:33,000
Speaker 1: entire armies of people who are like yeah, me too,

413
00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:36,480
Speaker 1: Like fuck yeah, like let's make this profession like you know,

414
00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:40,800
Speaker 1: let's let's continue the myth around it. Maybe when it's

415
00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:45,320
Speaker 1: not for maybe that myth doesn't apply to everyone who's

416
00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:46,760
Speaker 1: in the profession.

417
00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:50,480
Speaker 2: Yes, in a weird way, you know what I mean exactly, Yeah,

418
00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:52,640
Speaker 2: because there was there was a base level of respect

419
00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,199
Speaker 2: that he had for not just the food that he

420
00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:56,960
Speaker 2: was making, but the world that he was in.

421
00:20:57,480 --> 00:20:59,840
Speaker 3: And when you watch old videos of him in a kitchen,

422
00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:00,760
Speaker 3: You're like.

423
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:04,880
Speaker 2: Oh, he's really happy in that space, and he knows

424
00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:07,080
Speaker 2: the dishwashers, and he knows the delivery guys, and he

425
00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:10,159
Speaker 2: knows like the whole ecosystem that he's in worked for

426
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:12,640
Speaker 2: him in his life, and it.

427
00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:14,000
Speaker 3: Just doesn't apply to everybody.

428
00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:15,520
Speaker 2: So I don't know how we got off on this

429
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:17,840
Speaker 2: board day in Tangent or how I brought us here,

430
00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:21,360
Speaker 2: but I do think that he is a direct there's

431
00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:27,879
Speaker 2: a direct correlation between how people tend to mythologize him, yes,

432
00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:32,360
Speaker 2: and this newfound respect for the dirt bag in the kitchen,

433
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:35,440
Speaker 2: even though they are all over the place and attributing

434
00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:37,080
Speaker 2: it to the wrong fucking people.

435
00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:43,560
Speaker 1: But it's like, I just it was just so fascinating

436
00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:47,160
Speaker 1: now you know that I'm an older person, just seeing

437
00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:51,600
Speaker 1: the discourse by people who were younger than me, and

438
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:53,679
Speaker 1: then me having to step out of myself being like,

439
00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:57,320
Speaker 1: I guess I don't understand what this is because in

440
00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:00,399
Speaker 1: my day, in my day, a dirt bag was X,

441
00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:05,680
Speaker 1: Y and Z and maybe two twenty two year olds

442
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:08,200
Speaker 1: who write articles or whatever for the Internet. Maybe a

443
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:10,840
Speaker 1: dirt back is some other thing. It's like more, it

444
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:14,520
Speaker 1: is more of a mythology that they have only seen,

445
00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:18,800
Speaker 1: you know, in television and in books and not in

446
00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:21,199
Speaker 1: real life. So I just I just had that moment

447
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:23,600
Speaker 1: and I was like, man, I gotta bring.

448
00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:25,800
Speaker 4: This to the pond because I feel I'm.

449
00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:27,679
Speaker 3: Like, I'm like, is it me?

450
00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:28,560
Speaker 4: Is it me?

451
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:32,399
Speaker 2: So no, I think for a whole generation of people,

452
00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:34,800
Speaker 2: a dirt bag is someone who does not have a

453
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:38,400
Speaker 2: skincare routine or who is like, never shopped at Glossier.

454
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:41,920
Speaker 3: I know. I'm like, oh, you don't even.

455
00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:44,560
Speaker 2: Know the rungs and the levels of hell you have

456
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:46,600
Speaker 2: to get through to get to a true dear bag.

457
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:51,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, listen, it's gonna be dirt back June soon, So

458
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,159
Speaker 1: let's get let's get honest about what we're trying to

459
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 1: do here, folks.

460
00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,040
Speaker 2: I mean, listen, you know, I live my I live

461
00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:58,240
Speaker 2: my whole life like it's golden.

462
00:22:58,760 --> 00:22:59,879
Speaker 3: I live my life like it's.

463
00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:02,760
Speaker 2: A dirt bag season all the time because I'm just

464
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:06,200
Speaker 2: a crone in the woods at this point and nobody.

465
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:06,439
Speaker 3: Is checking for me.

466
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:10,280
Speaker 2: So it is Lucy Goosey here in dirtbag Territory. But

467
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:14,040
Speaker 2: we will come up with a true list of guidelines

468
00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:17,439
Speaker 2: if you truly want to experience a dirtbag June, we

469
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:17,840
Speaker 2: got you.

470
00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:19,600
Speaker 4: I think having gout.

471
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:20,760
Speaker 3: I think that's what you said.

472
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:24,520
Speaker 1: I think having gout is definitely rocketing.

473
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:26,800
Speaker 4: To the top of the list.

474
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:30,919
Speaker 2: Ah and again it I don't have gout, but that doesn't.

475
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:31,479
Speaker 3: Mean you can't get it.

476
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:38,120
Speaker 2: I think gout is a real disease. Or we're gonna

477
00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:39,840
Speaker 2: have to cut that is somebody gonna come out as

478
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,439
Speaker 2: be like I have gout and I'm a millionaire, like

479
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:43,200
Speaker 2: I know, And I.

480
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:46,480
Speaker 1: Said, well, in fact, isn't it wasn't like we're getting

481
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:47,399
Speaker 1: on a tangent here, I know.

482
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,200
Speaker 4: But wasn't gout a rich person's disease?

483
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, because it was like from eating too many fatty

484
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 2: things and like too many specific like stay it in

485
00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:58,719
Speaker 2: one food group for too long gave them gout. But

486
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,560
Speaker 2: also I will say my granddad had go out. And

487
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:05,199
Speaker 2: my granddad was a professional gambler. Like I did not

488
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:08,040
Speaker 2: know this until much later in my life. I thought,

489
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:10,240
Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, like he works at a bar, and

490
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:12,320
Speaker 2: I thought he was just like a guy who worked

491
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:15,000
Speaker 2: at a bar with his friends in Harlem.

492
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:18,440
Speaker 3: And then after his death, like years later.

493
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:21,280
Speaker 2: My grandh's been dead for like twenty five years years later,

494
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:24,680
Speaker 2: my brother and I were talking. My brother's like, oh no,

495
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 2: Like I used to skip in the skip school and

496
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:28,680
Speaker 2: go into the city to buy weed. And I would

497
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:32,160
Speaker 2: see granddad coming out of like the OTB and all

498
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 2: he would do is like drink whiskey and gamble all day.

499
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 2: And I'm like, is that why he always had wads

500
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:38,679
Speaker 2: of cash? And he's like, yeah, it wasn't from like

501
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:41,719
Speaker 2: tips at the bar. He was a fucking gambler and

502
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,439
Speaker 2: he had gout like and he used to wear like

503
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 2: the it's actually hanging right behind me somewhere. You know

504
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:52,159
Speaker 2: this this Satine sheen jacket, like his giant.

505
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 3: Yes he has his uh his official New York Giant

506
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:58,640
Speaker 3: Satine Giants. Bitch.

507
00:24:58,720 --> 00:24:59,920
Speaker 4: I love that jacket.

508
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:03,400
Speaker 1: I love a satin I love a satin jacket. From

509
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:03,960
Speaker 1: the eighties.

510
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:07,880
Speaker 2: He had a wallet, a Velcrow Playboy wallet, a Velcrow

511
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:08,639
Speaker 2: Playboy wallet.

512
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:10,880
Speaker 3: That's my granddad. That's a fucking dirt bag.

513
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 2: I loved a band of bits, but he was a

514
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:16,719
Speaker 2: fucking dirt bag. There we go, like drink whiskey and

515
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 2: beer on the bus home. I couldn't even wait till

516
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 2: he got off the bus. He'd be drinking with his

517
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,680
Speaker 2: friends on the bus, gambling all day, and he had

518
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 2: gout and I was like, what's gout? He's like, my

519
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:27,400
Speaker 2: knees hurt. And I'm like, okay, it's an old person's thing.

520
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:32,199
Speaker 2: It's a dirt bag thing. Well, then there we go.

521
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,880
Speaker 4: That to rocketed to the top of the list.

522
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 2: You got to get a fucking velcrow, playboy wallet, a

523
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:42,440
Speaker 2: Satine bomber jacket featuring your favorite sports team, and maybe

524
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:45,360
Speaker 2: skip work to gamble for an entire day, and you're

525
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,440
Speaker 2: at the beginning of your dirt bag journey.

526
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 3: Speaking of her.

527
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, speaking of dirt bags and speaking of journeys, let's

528
00:25:57,600 --> 00:25:58,359
Speaker 1: get serious.

529
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 4: We got recurring theme this week, folks.

530
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,600
Speaker 1: I'm sure you probably figured it out, maybe not, but

531
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 1: it's one that we love to.

532
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 2: Do uh so much. And this is perfection. I've been

533
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 2: waiting for this one for a while.

534
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:15,879
Speaker 1: I have to dude, I have to say, well, first

535
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 1: of all, why don't you drop the theme onto the folks.

536
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:22,200
Speaker 2: So our theme this week is All the Way Up

537
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 2: Christian Bale.

538
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:27,440
Speaker 1: Dude, this has been a long time coming, a long

539
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 1: time coming for those of you not familiar with All

540
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:31,440
Speaker 1: the Way Up. It's a recurring theme that we've done

541
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:35,120
Speaker 1: in the past. It is basically a theme that's centers.

542
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 1: It is all about an actor that goes really hard

543
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 1: anytime they're on screen.

544
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 3: For any role.

545
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,440
Speaker 2: Like the role doesn't dictate their behavior because they're just like, well,

546
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 2: I'm going hard.

547
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 3: That's what you hired me for, is to go hard.

548
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:54,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, we've done Leonardo DiCaprio, have we Tom Hardy?

549
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,679
Speaker 4: Who else have you do? Statham?

550
00:26:57,720 --> 00:26:58,240
Speaker 3: Oh? My god?

551
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:04,200
Speaker 1: Who could forget Statham? Chilosv Shelleos?

552
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:04,959
Speaker 3: Who could forget?

553
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 1: I have to say this week for these two movies,

554
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 1: I think we picked good ones. I have obviously heard

555
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 1: of your movie so much over the years, but I

556
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:22,959
Speaker 1: had never seen it. Oh yay, And dude, I was

557
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:26,200
Speaker 1: fucking rocked by it. I have to we'll get into

558
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,400
Speaker 1: it in just a second because you're going first this week.

559
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 4: But like, speaking of Wikipedia.

560
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 3: Holes, oh yeah, I went down.

561
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 1: A Wikipedia hole so hard that I could not sleep

562
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 1: for one entire night.

563
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:44,920
Speaker 2: You know, I love that we got in just under

564
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:49,639
Speaker 2: the Wire early in the New Year, an episode.

565
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:51,680
Speaker 3: That freaks you out. Yes, I love it.

566
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 4: Oh my god, I truly cannot wait to talk to

567
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 4: you about it.

568
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 3: Well, let's talk about it. Let's get into it. Because

569
00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 3: you're a movie also, I have so much to say.

570
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:03,679
Speaker 2: Yes, but there's there's a lot that's going on in

571
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 2: your film itself, like in the movie, but there's also

572
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,920
Speaker 2: a lot of discourse about your movie.

573
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 1: I agree, And that's the I think the approach that

574
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 1: I'm going to take more this week instead of going

575
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,400
Speaker 1: like beat by beat for the plot. There's so much

576
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 1: information about my movie now that it's kind of all

577
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 1: pretty interesting, and it was it's almost like too much

578
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 1: to even talk about on this episode.

579
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 3: But I picked out.

580
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 4: Some good, good nugs.

581
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:30,120
Speaker 1: And when it comes to Christian Bale as a person

582
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:34,880
Speaker 1: like I, actually I guess I just didn't know much

583
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 1: about him. I know that he I know that he's English,

584
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 1: but he was born in Wales.

585
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 3: But he's not what she's English? Right, right? It does happen.

586
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 3: It does happen, folks, Yes, and then he.

587
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 1: I guess we'll get to it when we get to

588
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 1: my movie. But it was h he was only he

589
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 1: was in a couple things in like the eighties and

590
00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 1: early nineties, but then it really wasn't until my movie

591
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 1: that made him like a star, like a superstar.

592
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 3: So that's fascinating.

593
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, he did like Empire the Sun and Newsies when

594
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 2: he was a kid, like he did, was he I

595
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 2: think he.

596
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 3: Was in Newsies?

597
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 1: No, he was in Newsies because I was getting that

598
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 1: confused with Swing Kids.

599
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 4: And then I realized that he's in both Newsies and

600
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 4: Swing Kids.

601
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 2: The Six Degrees of Christian Bale is a really fun

602
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 2: game because he has done it all, and as a person,

603
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 2: I think that he's he's has a reputation as being

604
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 2: very intense. We're going to talk about in my film,

605
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 2: especially his commitment to method acting or his prior commitment

606
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 2: to method acting. I've read interviews where he said he

607
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 2: doesn't do that anymore, and he also has like there

608
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 2: there are obviously there have been many parodies, but there

609
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 2: there is a tape of him screaming at people on

610
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 2: set like he is so method and he gets so

611
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 2: into it that he kind of comes across as a

612
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 2: real cock to a lot of people. So I think

613
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 2: that he has made some interesting choices in his life,

614
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 2: but his commitment to method acting has also been a

615
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 2: big part of his reputation as a star.

616
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 1: Well, and to that point a little I think one

617
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 1: of the indicators for a person who qualifies for it.

618
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 4: All the way up.

619
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 1: Is one where you're maybe at times unclear of whether

620
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 1: or not they're actually a good actor in the most

621
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 1: like foundational sense, because they're so passionate, right you know,

622
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 1: about what they're doing that you're like.

623
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:50,560
Speaker 3: Is this good?

624
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 4: Sometimes?

625
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 1: I mean it's great at times, but then you're like,

626
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 1: sometimes you have to sit back and go what is

627
00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 1: actually happening here? If that line is a tiny bit blurry,

628
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 1: then that's an all the way up person for me.

629
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 4: It's the same way that I feel about Leonardo DiCaprio.

630
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 1: We have talked about this ad nauseum on the podcast,

631
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 1: but it's that thing of like is it yelling acting?

632
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 2: There's also there has to be an element for me

633
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 2: of like are you actually okay in your life? Like

634
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 2: if there's a little bit of worry for me, like

635
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:23,959
Speaker 2: is your life?

636
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 3: Are you okay in your life? Like what is your day?

637
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 3: When you go home?

638
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 2: Do you like watch cartoons? Like how do you come down?

639
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 2: And how do you do you relax? Can you relax?

640
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 3: There has to be a little bit of that for

641
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 3: me as well.

642
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 1: One hundred percent, and so by those metrics, I feel

643
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 1: like Christian Bale is a perfect person for the episode.

644
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 4: And I'm really excited to talk.

645
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 3: About your movie.

646
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 2: Oh well, let's get into it, because my film was

647
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 2: released in two thousand and four. It was the screenplays

648
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 2: by Scott Kozar and it was directed by Brad Anderson.

649
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 3: And my movie is The Machinist.

650
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 4: Everyone gets insomnia now.

651
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 3: And then, Steve, I haven't slept in a year.

652
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 2: So my film, I'm going to give you the one

653
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 2: sentenced synopsis before I get into the actual background of

654
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 2: the film itself and the reason why I've picked this

655
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 2: for all the way up. So my one sentence synopsis

656
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 2: of The Machinist is and insomniac is having a complete

657
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 2: psychological breakdown as a violent mystery affects his every waking moment.

658
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 3: Perfect.

659
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 2: So we're dealing with a character who has not slept

660
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 2: in a year and who has lost a tremendous amount

661
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 2: of weight in a very short time, which is commented

662
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 2: on in the film and is part of the story

663
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 2: of the film. We eventually, at the very end understand

664
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 2: what happened, but prior to that, it's kind of a

665
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 2: What I really like about this film is it's really

666
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 2: like a very noirsh mystery and it kind of uses

667
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 2: all these aspects of old Hollywood, like in the way

668
00:32:56,720 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 2: that it's filmed, and it's visually dark, like it's dark,

669
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 2: and then there's like pops. It's not filmed in black

670
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 2: and white, but it looks like it's filmed in black

671
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,640
Speaker 2: and white at points there's pops of color that come through.

672
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 2: But it's a very dark film and the soundtrack is

673
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 2: very old Hollywood dark noir to me. So I just

674
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:18,160
Speaker 2: love the scope of this film. But the reason I

675
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 2: picked this movie for all the way up is that

676
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 2: Christian Christian Bale dropped from one hundred and seventy three

677
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 2: pounds to one hundred and ten pounds in four months.

678
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 3: For this movie.

679
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:36,560
Speaker 2: He and that alone is astonishing, but when you look

680
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 2: at how he did it and what he did and

681
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 2: what came after. So apparently he ate only a can

682
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 2: of tuna and one apple per day and drank one

683
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 2: cup of black coffee a day. Then he said he

684
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 2: also chain smoked and drank and drank whiskey, which those

685
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 2: two things have never worked for me in terms of

686
00:33:57,920 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 2: weight loss, but I don't go too hard in either.

687
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 3: Direction, so maybe that's why.

688
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 2: But he had this intense routine to lose weight in

689
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:11,240
Speaker 2: four months over sixty pounds in four months.

690
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 1: Well, and this is this is so fascinating to me

691
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:19,320
Speaker 1: because so this is essentially the only thing that I

692
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 1: knew about the movie. Four years since this movie came out,

693
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 1: I didn't really know what the film was about. I

694
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 1: didn't I'd never seen it, obviously, but I just knew

695
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 1: of it as the movie where Christian Bale lost.

696
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:32,280
Speaker 4: A bunch of weight really fast.

697
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:37,760
Speaker 1: Dieting is like a very contentious, you know, sort of thing,

698
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 1: and I get it, it is for me personally too,

699
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:41,840
Speaker 1: But I'm.

700
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 4: Like, this guy.

701
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:48,319
Speaker 1: Was eating like maybe two or three hundred calories a

702
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,279
Speaker 1: day a day for four months.

703
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 3: That to me feels it's punishing.

704
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 1: It's punishing, but also like, was he not able to

705
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 1: like get up off of a chair, Like he must

706
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 1: have had no energy to do anything.

707
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 3: Right, but then he had to act.

708
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 2: He had no he must have been physically demolished, and

709
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:14,399
Speaker 2: then he had to act and like portray this care

710
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 2: and do this intense job. Yes, And this is why

711
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:22,320
Speaker 2: this is also why there are a lot of people

712
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:29,840
Speaker 2: who have actively discussed why method acting is horrible. And

713
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:31,359
Speaker 2: if you want to look up those articles, there are

714
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:34,319
Speaker 2: tons of them. He's often used as an example of

715
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:36,360
Speaker 2: why method acting is not good for your brain and

716
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 2: your body and your lifestyle. There's also one of my

717
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 2: absolute favorite quotes in the world, because Dustin Hoffman has

718
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:47,280
Speaker 2: also been a proponent of method acting and he did

719
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 2: some truly wild shit when he was filming Marathon Man

720
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 2: and he was going through his routine with Sir Lawrence Olivier,

721
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 2: who was like, yeah, like I don't sleep for four days,

722
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:00,719
Speaker 2: and you know, I don't wash, and you know I

723
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:04,239
Speaker 2: run and and Florence Olivier said, my dear boy, why

724
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 2: don't you just try acting?

725
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:07,840
Speaker 3: Yeah?

726
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 2: Classic, instead of like having to get into this fucking

727
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:13,759
Speaker 2: method acting, why don't you just try acting.

728
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:15,880
Speaker 3: And method acting? Because I wanted to look this up.

729
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:17,880
Speaker 2: I wanted to be more more clear on what it is,

730
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 2: because from my perspective, I always thought of it as

731
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 2: something where it's like the actor fully encompasses every aspect

732
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:29,400
Speaker 2: of the character's life in order to bring them more

733
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,320
Speaker 2: vividly to life. So that means, you know, like Daniel

734
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:35,120
Speaker 2: day Lewis is a very famous method actor. There are

735
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:39,080
Speaker 2: lots of tons of examples, but the way it was

736
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:43,319
Speaker 2: it was developed in the actor studio by Lee Strasberg,

737
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 2: Stella Adler and Sanford Meisner, who built this method based

738
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:51,640
Speaker 2: on an a method acting method that was truly developed

739
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:55,759
Speaker 2: by Constantine Stanislovsky, and the three of them together kind

740
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:59,279
Speaker 2: of looked at it as a way of kind of

741
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 2: the art of it's the art of experience and representation,

742
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 2: so experientially getting into the role of this character in

743
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:12,320
Speaker 2: order to represent it more fully. And that's you know, psychologically, behaviorally,

744
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 2: you know, psychologically like kind of really fully getting into it.

745
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 3: So that's what method acting is.

746
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:22,360
Speaker 2: A lot of people think it's it's really punishing and

747
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 2: kind of an insane way to get into a character,

748
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 2: so Lawrence Livier being one of them. But that's what

749
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 2: Christian Bale has really done for a lot of roles

750
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 2: in his life, and that to me, this is the beginning.

751
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 2: This film is the beginning of us really seeing him

752
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:42,799
Speaker 2: as a method actor as well. So I think in

753
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:46,600
Speaker 2: your film he did some wild physical stuff to get

754
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 2: into the role of Patrick Bateman.

755
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:52,879
Speaker 1: He went into the opposite direction. He basically like went

756
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 1: you know, to the gym and got muscles in two

757
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 1: weeks or so.

758
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 4: I was like, we can talk about it when my

759
00:37:59,080 --> 00:37:59,759
Speaker 4: movie comes up.

760
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, like he did some He's really like

761
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:06,360
Speaker 2: this was the most an early and extreme example of

762
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:09,360
Speaker 2: his method acting. But just to put this in perspective,

763
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 2: so not only did he drop to one hundred and

764
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:15,520
Speaker 2: ten pounds and four months, the movie he did right

765
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:20,239
Speaker 2: after this was Fucking Batman Begins, So he had to

766
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 2: gain one hundred pounds of muscle right after losing over

767
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:29,839
Speaker 2: sixty pounds in four months to play Fucking Batman. And

768
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 2: then in twenty ten he lost a shitload of weight

769
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:37,440
Speaker 2: again to play Dicky Ecklund and The Fighter, and one

770
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:40,719
Speaker 2: of my he's one of my funny, favorite funniest quotes

771
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 2: about that role because they're like.

772
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 3: How'd you lose the weight again?

773
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 2: And he's like, I just ran like crazy, like I

774
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 2: just ran all the time.

775
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 3: I ran everywhere.

776
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 2: And I'm like, this man has gone to fucking extremes

777
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:56,279
Speaker 2: to portray these characters, and this film again is kind

778
00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 2: of the most extreme example to me. So that's why

779
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:00,120
Speaker 2: I chose it for for my all the way up.

780
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 4: Oh yeah you had to.

781
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like this movie is the shining

782
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 1: example of an all the way up type of actor.

783
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:10,640
Speaker 1: It's like somebody that's willing to put himself in physical.

784
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 3: Harm to act and be in a movie.

785
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 1: And I mean, I'm not a doctor, right, I don't

786
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 1: want you know it's that thing.

787
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:19,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, surprise, I'm not a.

788
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 3: Recording All this time. I didn't know that. I know

789
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:23,279
Speaker 3: I've been hiding it from you.

790
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:27,839
Speaker 1: But no, it's the whole thing about his look in

791
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:32,480
Speaker 1: this film, because again I've never seen the movie. I

792
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:34,879
Speaker 1: hadn't even really looked at pictures of what he looked like.

793
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 3: In this film.

794
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 1: When they show him at the beginning, I was fucking shocked,

795
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:45,640
Speaker 1: Like I was like, wholely fucking shit. And I did

796
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:48,719
Speaker 1: the thing where I watched American Psycho, which I've seen

797
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:51,719
Speaker 1: many many times, and then watched The Machinists like right

798
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:55,960
Speaker 1: after a true double feature, and it the body change

799
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 1: between those two films, which I know American Psycho was

800
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:00,200
Speaker 1: made before.

801
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 4: Four was un I mean it was.

802
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:06,960
Speaker 1: It derailed me, Like I just was like, and there

803
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 1: is this one part of the towards the beginning where

804
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 1: he's like in the bathroom and he's you know, I

805
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 1: guess he's with the Jennifer Jason Lee character. He comes

806
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:16,920
Speaker 1: out of the bathroom and he starts like doing that

807
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:17,799
Speaker 1: body roll.

808
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:20,720
Speaker 2: Yes, and he puts his arms out to the side

809
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:22,399
Speaker 2: and like cocks his head and.

810
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:25,480
Speaker 3: It looks like a fucking Garabal del Toro characters.

811
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:25,919
Speaker 4: Oh my god.

812
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:29,760
Speaker 1: It was like Jim Rowe's Size Show Circus from Lollapalooza

813
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 1: meets Germal del Toro meets some fucking fucked up Japanese

814
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 1: horror movie.

815
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 4: And I was like, this man's body.

816
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:43,920
Speaker 3: Is very it.

817
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:48,879
Speaker 1: Seems unhealthily skinny in a way that disturbed the shit

818
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:49,319
Speaker 1: out of me.

819
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:52,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they focus on it so intensely because I

820
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 2: think that to me, this is a horror movie. It

821
00:40:57,560 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 2: it's a mystery, but for me, it's a horror movie

822
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 2: simply because of the body horror that is such a

823
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 2: huge part of the telling of this story. It's such

824
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:08,720
Speaker 2: a huge part of the narrative to the point where

825
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 2: and it's Here's the other thing that was interesting to

826
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:13,560
Speaker 2: me about it is that it's it's not ignored in

827
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:17,279
Speaker 2: the film. Almost every single person that this character interacts

828
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 2: with is like, are you okay, Like they ask about

829
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:23,960
Speaker 2: his physical well being because he has lost a ton

830
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:27,920
Speaker 2: of weight very quickly as the character in the film,

831
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 2: so his bosses are like, are you on drugs? You know?

832
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 3: His you know, Jennifer Chason Lee is in this movie.

833
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 2: She plays a character named Stevie who's a sex worker

834
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:37,840
Speaker 2: that he sees regularly and is kind of starting to

835
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:40,880
Speaker 2: develop a real relationship with and she one of the

836
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:43,120
Speaker 2: first things she says to him is are you okay?

837
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:45,640
Speaker 3: And if you were any skinny or you disappear?

838
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:50,239
Speaker 2: There's someone who you know, this woman named Marie who's

839
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:55,000
Speaker 2: played by Atanya Sanchez Guillon, who works at the diner

840
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:58,279
Speaker 2: that he frequents after work, and she constantly is like,

841
00:41:58,320 --> 00:41:59,240
Speaker 2: you know, are you okay?

842
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:02,400
Speaker 3: What's going on on? So his body, you know.

843
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:05,239
Speaker 2: I know this is possibly triggering for some listeners for

844
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:07,480
Speaker 2: us to be talking about bodies and weight loss in

845
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:11,200
Speaker 2: all of this method acting, but I cannot stress enough

846
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:13,960
Speaker 2: that it is a huge part of the development of

847
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:16,800
Speaker 2: this character because it is crucial to the narrative of

848
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 2: the film. There's a reason why he has lost such

849
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:22,960
Speaker 2: a tremendous amount of weight, and it's part of the

850
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 2: mystery and the violent thoughts that he's having and the

851
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 2: kind of like disjointed thoughts that he's having. So I

852
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:35,759
Speaker 2: think that it's not glamorized in this film, like his

853
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:38,359
Speaker 2: weight and his body is not glamorized. It's seen as

854
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:42,480
Speaker 2: a point of horror, which is as it should be,

855
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:45,360
Speaker 2: I think for this character and for this look.

856
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 3: That he has achieved.

857
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 2: The body is a point of horror, is the point

858
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:51,360
Speaker 2: of the narrative of this film.

859
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:54,279
Speaker 3: So I'm glad that they don't skirt around it.

860
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 2: But I think that it's also it's shocking in a

861
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:01,000
Speaker 2: way that's meant to evoke the kind of shock and

862
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:03,440
Speaker 2: horror that this character is going through, because this is

863
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:07,960
Speaker 2: someone who's having very disjointed thoughts. This character's name is Trevor,

864
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 2: Trevor Resnik, and very early on he ad missed that

865
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:13,920
Speaker 2: he hasn't slept in a year, he's had insomnia for

866
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:18,480
Speaker 2: a year, and he is again having all these disjointed

867
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:20,839
Speaker 2: thoughts where when we first meet him, he's kind of

868
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:23,440
Speaker 2: rolling a body in a carpet and then rolling it

869
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:27,480
Speaker 2: into the water, and he's bleaching his hands constantly, and

870
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:30,440
Speaker 2: he's bleaching his home constantly, which is just like a

871
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:34,120
Speaker 2: huge portrayal of guilt. And he works as a machinist,

872
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:37,040
Speaker 2: so he works in this way where again, if you've

873
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 2: never met a true dirtbag. Going back to our dirtbag conversation.

874
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:45,840
Speaker 2: So he's a machinist. He makes small parts, works on

875
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:49,279
Speaker 2: big machines to make the small parts, and it's a

876
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:55,920
Speaker 2: very dangerous job, which is made evident from the beginning

877
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:59,880
Speaker 2: of the film where he accidentally contributes to one of

878
00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:04,440
Speaker 2: his friend slash coworkers having their arm ripped off.

879
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:08,439
Speaker 3: In a very shocking scene.

880
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:12,520
Speaker 2: That Michael Ironside plays this character who has his fucking

881
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:17,000
Speaker 2: arm ripped off, and it's kind of set up in

882
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:18,759
Speaker 2: a way that like this, you know, Trevor is so

883
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:21,359
Speaker 2: out of it because his brain isn't working because he's

884
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:27,239
Speaker 2: not getting enough nourishment that he accidentally is not He's

885
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:29,279
Speaker 2: supposed to be spotting this guy and he just isn't

886
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:29,879
Speaker 2: doing his job.

887
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:30,920
Speaker 3: He's kind of distracted.

888
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:34,799
Speaker 2: And the reason he's distracted is that he keeps seeing

889
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:38,720
Speaker 2: this guy named Ivan all over the place. And Ivan

890
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:42,279
Speaker 2: is new to this factory. And the best thing about

891
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:45,479
Speaker 2: Ivan is that he has toe hands. At one point

892
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:48,399
Speaker 2: they're talking and he's like, I got my fingers ripped off.

893
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:50,880
Speaker 2: They're placed one with my big toe and one with

894
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:53,439
Speaker 2: my little toe, and he holds up his little toe hand,

895
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:56,719
Speaker 2: which was.

896
00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:58,759
Speaker 4: Like, I.

897
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:05,600
Speaker 1: So even really reminds me of like the Robert Trannio

898
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 1: character from Angel Heart. He's just like like devilish, like

899
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 1: New Orleans based accent.

900
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:19,920
Speaker 3: Guy wanta callback callback.

901
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:23,879
Speaker 1: But then when that part came up where he's got

902
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:28,040
Speaker 1: toes for fingers, I was like, certainly they don't.

903
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:29,680
Speaker 4: Really do that, do they?

904
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:30,080
Speaker 3: Oh?

905
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I'm not a doctor. They be like, hey,

906
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:36,239
Speaker 4: this guy has no fingers, let's put some toes in there.

907
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:41,640
Speaker 2: I guess I mean in certain certain instances, yes, really, yes,

908
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:42,400
Speaker 2: I looked it up.

909
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, good because I didn't and I did not

910
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:45,960
Speaker 1: know that.

911
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:48,359
Speaker 4: I was certainly like, come on, would they do that?

912
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:50,799
Speaker 3: But if you're telling me they do that.

913
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:51,759
Speaker 4: Is news to me.

914
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:56,319
Speaker 2: I don't think it's a common practice any longer. But

915
00:45:56,400 --> 00:46:00,479
Speaker 2: it has been done, Okay, okay, because I.

916
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:03,279
Speaker 1: Was like, is this just like, let's just make this

917
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:07,720
Speaker 1: world just completely insane. Let's just make this this narrative

918
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 1: world insane.

919
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:11,080
Speaker 4: But if you're telling me it's happened, got it?

920
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:14,400
Speaker 2: It has happened, It has happened, and it is Yeah,

921
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:16,799
Speaker 2: it is wild. And this is again very early on

922
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:19,799
Speaker 2: in the film that we're discovering these things. And I

923
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 2: think that it's it's important to look at his life

924
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:26,720
Speaker 2: as a machinists. Again, a part of this narrative of

925
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:30,200
Speaker 2: the disjointed nature of his life because he's his job

926
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:33,319
Speaker 2: is to focus on very small details. But then in

927
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 2: his real life he leaves post it notes for everything,

928
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:38,520
Speaker 2: like he can't remember anything, He.

929
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:41,880
Speaker 3: Has no ability for minutia.

930
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:44,520
Speaker 2: In his real life, he's just like racked with guilt

931
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 2: about something. And I will not ruin the movie, so

932
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:50,600
Speaker 2: I won't tell you what he has reacked with guilt about.

933
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 2: But basically everything that happens in the film is shot

934
00:46:57,560 --> 00:46:59,600
Speaker 2: in such a way and presented in such a way

935
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:03,600
Speaker 2: that you don't know what is reality and what is

936
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:08,800
Speaker 2: his brain kind of revisiting trauma or a traumatic event.

937
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:11,480
Speaker 2: So the part again like the fact that this is

938
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:14,120
Speaker 2: that the things that are happening to him are also

939
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:17,600
Speaker 2: rooted in trauma is a really important part of the

940
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:21,680
Speaker 2: body horror of the film. And so we're just kind

941
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:24,719
Speaker 2: of watching this character spiral and it's we're kind of

942
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:28,560
Speaker 2: put kept off guard as a viewer as to what's real,

943
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:29,920
Speaker 2: what's imagined.

944
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:31,520
Speaker 3: Why is he seeing what he's seeing?

945
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:34,360
Speaker 2: You know, they're a post it notes showing up on

946
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 2: his refrigerator that he didn't.

947
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:37,520
Speaker 3: Write, that he's concerned with.

948
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:43,240
Speaker 2: He's kind of trying to have a relationship with Marie,

949
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:47,480
Speaker 2: and her son is part of it. And it's just

950
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:51,560
Speaker 2: very convoluted and interesting and strange. And I really love

951
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:52,960
Speaker 2: it because it's a movie that keeps you on your

952
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:57,919
Speaker 2: fucking toes. But it's it's horrible. It's a horrible thing

953
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:03,879
Speaker 2: to watch someone's body disintegrate. But yeah, like his processing

954
00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:07,839
Speaker 2: the horror of his life, and we're watching someone who's

955
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:12,080
Speaker 2: trying to unravel the mystery of his own brain. And

956
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:16,319
Speaker 2: I think it's a beautifully shot and portrayed film in

957
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:19,319
Speaker 2: that way that we're constantly on the ride with him,

958
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:22,279
Speaker 2: like we are, never as a viewer ever able to

959
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:25,840
Speaker 2: kind of find comfort and to say like, well, what

960
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:29,920
Speaker 2: we're watching is absolutely real and completely happened. So I

961
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:31,320
Speaker 2: just think it's great. I thought it was a brilliant

962
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:35,200
Speaker 2: screenplay from Scott co Sar. I thought it looked wonderful

963
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:39,759
Speaker 2: and it's truly a horror show and his body is

964
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:40,640
Speaker 2: at the center of it.

965
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:44,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, it's definitely a horror film for sure. That

966
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:47,200
Speaker 1: like the first thing went through my mind was body warm,

967
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:52,759
Speaker 1: like the minute the minute he showed up, which you know,

968
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:58,200
Speaker 1: divorcing Christian Bale as a person, as an actor preparing

969
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:03,800
Speaker 1: for this role, right in that the character's body is part.

970
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:07,520
Speaker 4: Of the horror of the film, right there.

971
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 1: Was So I basically went out in this Wikipedia hole

972
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:13,560
Speaker 1: about the movie because again I didn't even know who

973
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:14,280
Speaker 1: directed it.

974
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 4: I just wanted all this information about it.

975
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:18,400
Speaker 1: And if you go to the Wikipedia entry for the

976
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:22,200
Speaker 1: Machinists there if like down at the very bottom, there

977
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:30,799
Speaker 1: is this see also section which talks about fatal insomnia ooh,

978
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:36,719
Speaker 1: as being a actual disease that may have influenced like

979
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:39,359
Speaker 1: it might have influenced the plot of the film, and

980
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:45,680
Speaker 1: maybe this disease is part of maybe what this character has.

981
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:50,680
Speaker 4: And of course I'm like, fatal insomnia, what the fuck?

982
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:54,160
Speaker 1: So of course I read all about it at like

983
00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:55,360
Speaker 1: two o'clock in the morning.

984
00:49:56,280 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 2: Ah, while you're in the midst of your own fatal incide.

985
00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:02,160
Speaker 4: Oh my god.

986
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:05,720
Speaker 1: It was like because bottom line two about this movie

987
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:12,520
Speaker 1: is that I hate movies where characters can't sleep. It

988
00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:19,480
Speaker 1: makes me viscerally uncomfortable. Yes, because I hate having insomnia too, Right,

989
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:22,040
Speaker 1: and so it's that that's part of the horror of

990
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:25,560
Speaker 1: this film is somebody that you know that can't sleep

991
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:29,680
Speaker 1: and hasn't slept and his body is experiencing physical effects

992
00:50:29,719 --> 00:50:30,359
Speaker 1: from the fact that.

993
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:32,040
Speaker 3: He hasn't slept, right exactly.

994
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:37,120
Speaker 1: It really made me feel uncomfortable, right, just yeah, And

995
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:41,399
Speaker 1: that's the testament to the movie obviously. But then I

996
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:44,520
Speaker 1: was like reading about fatal insomnia and it's like a

997
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:48,200
Speaker 1: real ass disease. It basically, go read about it because

998
00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:49,520
Speaker 1: I just was like wow.

999
00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:54,440
Speaker 4: And then of course I was like, could I have

1000
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:55,600
Speaker 4: fatal insomnia?

1001
00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:56,200
Speaker 3: Really?

1002
00:50:57,600 --> 00:51:01,560
Speaker 1: Even though the first sentence of the Wikipedia article is

1003
00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:06,799
Speaker 1: fatal insomnia is an extremely rare genetic and even more

1004
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:09,040
Speaker 1: rarely sporadic disorder.

1005
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:11,840
Speaker 4: So it's like extremely rare.

1006
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:14,600
Speaker 3: And yet I'm up in the middle of the night going, no,

1007
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:16,759
Speaker 3: I have it. I have it.

1008
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:19,359
Speaker 2: Regular insomnia is bad enough.

1009
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:22,160
Speaker 3: It doesn't have to be fatal for it to be bad.

1010
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:29,719
Speaker 1: I completely agree, But it's set complete like going to

1011
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 1: WebMD and convincing yourself that you have this extremely rare

1012
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:37,600
Speaker 1: genetic disorder because you looked something up from a fucking movie.

1013
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:39,280
Speaker 4: Especially what happened.

1014
00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:43,880
Speaker 2: This has not surprised me about you at all at all.

1015
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:48,320
Speaker 2: But also I looked up I didn't look up fatal insomnia,

1016
00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:51,840
Speaker 2: but I was really interested in how long could somebody

1017
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:56,560
Speaker 2: go without sleep before it became disastrous to their life,

1018
00:51:56,560 --> 00:51:59,040
Speaker 2: because I'm like, could someone actually not sleep for a year?

1019
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:02,000
Speaker 2: Because in the movies see him kind of just dozing

1020
00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:05,080
Speaker 2: off in moments and they're quick, like he doesn't close

1021
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:07,560
Speaker 2: his eyes for more than fifteen seconds at a time

1022
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:09,399
Speaker 2: in this film, And.

1023
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:11,040
Speaker 3: So I'm like, what does it do to the brain,

1024
00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:11,480
Speaker 3: Because I.

1025
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:16,239
Speaker 2: Do, unfortunately know a little bit about the effects of

1026
00:52:16,239 --> 00:52:18,880
Speaker 2: insomnia in the brain because I had it for so long,

1027
00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:24,520
Speaker 2: and as a teenager, I developed insomnia and it wasn't

1028
00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:26,960
Speaker 2: I didn't really address it as a part of my

1029
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:31,120
Speaker 2: overall mental health until my thirties, which is wild to

1030
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:35,040
Speaker 2: think about, but I personally never made the correlation between

1031
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:39,719
Speaker 2: my lack of sleep and my ongoing depression. And it

1032
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:42,840
Speaker 2: is unreal what a lack of sleep will do to

1033
00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:47,400
Speaker 2: the human brain. And I think that it is an

1034
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:50,920
Speaker 2: astounding basis for a character in a film, because so

1035
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:54,239
Speaker 2: many of us have, you know, at least even up

1036
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:57,799
Speaker 2: passing understanding of what that feels like. And I think

1037
00:52:57,840 --> 00:52:59,640
Speaker 2: you know, fight club is of course the other example,

1038
00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:01,600
Speaker 2: but we don't talk about fight club on this podcast.

1039
00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:04,320
Speaker 4: Talk of a fight club.

1040
00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:08,200
Speaker 3: No, we don't talk about that club. No, no, no,

1041
00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:11,240
Speaker 3: we don't talk about that club.

1042
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:15,560
Speaker 2: But yeah, I think that it's you know, insomnia is

1043
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:18,239
Speaker 2: bad period. It's bad enough, and if you have it,

1044
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:20,520
Speaker 2: you should try to address it. I think that so

1045
00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:23,040
Speaker 2: much of my adult life, you know, in the last

1046
00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:27,239
Speaker 2: ten to fifteen years, has been trying to address my

1047
00:53:27,320 --> 00:53:30,560
Speaker 2: sleep hygiene because I'm someone who is prone to insomnia.

1048
00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:34,919
Speaker 2: But even I would not say I had fatal insomnia.

1049
00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:38,360
Speaker 2: I had depressing insomnia, but it wasn't fatal.

1050
00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:44,359
Speaker 1: Well, and like again, it's just it's just be like

1051
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:46,880
Speaker 1: reading something on the internet and thinking that you haven't

1052
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:49,960
Speaker 1: because it's like essentially like the article, I mean, this

1053
00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:55,440
Speaker 1: is incredibly I mean, this is a summation. I guess

1054
00:53:55,760 --> 00:54:00,000
Speaker 1: you have to pretty much be a cannibal or wow,

1055
00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:08,080
Speaker 1: some very rare genetic mutation to have fatal insomnia. Basically, like,

1056
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:12,240
Speaker 1: it's so rare to get that, like, only a certain

1057
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:14,400
Speaker 1: number of factors that are just completely.

1058
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:16,520
Speaker 4: Outrageous would even allow you to have it.

1059
00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:19,200
Speaker 1: But of course, my stupid ass is like I got

1060
00:54:19,239 --> 00:54:22,600
Speaker 1: it now, I got it because I'm reading an article

1061
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:23,000
Speaker 1: about it.

1062
00:54:23,080 --> 00:54:27,920
Speaker 4: I can't sleep, Like, God damn this movie. God damn Danielle, you.

1063
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:31,080
Speaker 2: Gotta start closing that computer at nine pm and put

1064
00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:34,360
Speaker 2: that phone in another room and just read fairy Tales

1065
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:37,560
Speaker 2: before you go to bed, because you're like, hmm, if

1066
00:54:37,560 --> 00:54:41,040
Speaker 2: my mom and dad are both cannibal andsomniacs, I would

1067
00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:43,200
Speaker 2: absolutely if this is the secret they've been keeping for

1068
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:45,480
Speaker 2: me all these years, they would explain so much.

1069
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 3: Yes.

1070
00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:49,839
Speaker 1: And it was just truly because of this fucking movie

1071
00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:52,520
Speaker 1: once again, like just scaring the shit out of me

1072
00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:57,120
Speaker 1: in a way, like I just you did this, you

1073
00:54:57,200 --> 00:54:59,960
Speaker 1: did this? No, I mean, look, I am glad I

1074
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:03,960
Speaker 1: finally watched it because it's like you're it's like watching

1075
00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:07,680
Speaker 1: the Bear. It's like, finally you're watching something that everybody

1076
00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:10,000
Speaker 1: has reference and everybody has seen and you're the last person.

1077
00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:12,320
Speaker 4: So I was glad I got to do that finally.

1078
00:55:12,520 --> 00:55:13,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, and.

1079
00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:18,640
Speaker 1: Again divorcing Christian Bale, the actor from his role in

1080
00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:19,560
Speaker 1: this film.

1081
00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:26,440
Speaker 4: What he did as an actor is to me seems batshit,

1082
00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:27,360
Speaker 4: but that's.

1083
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:33,200
Speaker 1: Because he's he was a healthy, you know, person that

1084
00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:38,719
Speaker 1: put his body through such stress for a movie, which

1085
00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:41,520
Speaker 1: I was like, that's kind of fucked up, man, Like

1086
00:55:41,800 --> 00:55:42,640
Speaker 1: would I do that?

1087
00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:45,200
Speaker 3: Do I want something that bad? I don't know?

1088
00:55:45,640 --> 00:55:49,239
Speaker 2: And then people people let him. People let him do it.

1089
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:51,120
Speaker 2: They're like, yeah, go ahead.

1090
00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:56,120
Speaker 3: Knock yourself out. It's gonna be fucking great. Like people

1091
00:55:56,239 --> 00:55:57,160
Speaker 3: let him do this.

1092
00:55:57,640 --> 00:56:02,759
Speaker 2: And this is why he isn't all the way up royalty,

1093
00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:04,920
Speaker 2: because he has done this.

1094
00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:08,280
Speaker 3: So many times and he's gone the other way.

1095
00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:11,799
Speaker 2: He gained over one hundred pounds for vice and for

1096
00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:16,400
Speaker 2: American hustle, like the man for a long time, for decades,

1097
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:19,840
Speaker 2: could not stop using his body as like a Plato

1098
00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:21,360
Speaker 2: fun factory.

1099
00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:25,959
Speaker 1: Yes, and like I mean, much like Statham putting those

1100
00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:27,640
Speaker 1: jumper cables on his nips.

1101
00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:31,479
Speaker 4: It's like people like it's it's for the art. They're

1102
00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:32,839
Speaker 4: doing it for the art, and.

1103
00:56:32,760 --> 00:56:35,360
Speaker 1: I'm like, I guess, like in this case, I'm like,

1104
00:56:36,560 --> 00:56:38,360
Speaker 1: I don't know if I want art that bad in

1105
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:38,800
Speaker 1: my life.

1106
00:56:38,960 --> 00:56:41,160
Speaker 4: I don't know if I would do that.

1107
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:45,120
Speaker 2: Can we use CGI and save our actors the hassle?

1108
00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:51,240
Speaker 2: Can we go the Olivier row and just act instead

1109
00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:52,640
Speaker 2: of having you be like I have to live in

1110
00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:55,800
Speaker 2: a cave for seven years so that I can portray

1111
00:56:55,840 --> 00:56:57,840
Speaker 2: this dude who lived in a cave for three months,

1112
00:56:57,880 --> 00:57:00,600
Speaker 2: like maybe not, maybe I have to.

1113
00:57:00,600 --> 00:57:05,680
Speaker 4: Drink whiskey and eat one apple a day for my art.

1114
00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:09,960
Speaker 3: My arteries are fucking screaming.

1115
00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:16,280
Speaker 2: For help, and my vascular system has left my body

1116
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:20,440
Speaker 2: and called a doctor on its own. It developed sentience

1117
00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:22,480
Speaker 2: because it is struggling.

1118
00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:27,200
Speaker 1: Well, I gotta tell you, fucking dudes, fucking young and

1119
00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:29,200
Speaker 1: healthy dudes, because I.

1120
00:57:29,080 --> 00:57:31,800
Speaker 4: Try to drink whiskey and smoke cigarettes for.

1121
00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:34,480
Speaker 1: Many years and I didn't need a new shit for me,

1122
00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:37,080
Speaker 1: not an ounce, not a fucking ounce.

1123
00:57:37,160 --> 00:57:37,680
Speaker 3: Law.

1124
00:57:37,880 --> 00:57:41,840
Speaker 1: I did not become a smelt woman by doing any

1125
00:57:41,880 --> 00:57:42,080
Speaker 1: of that.

1126
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:48,880
Speaker 2: So oh good, the exact opposite effect on me, pretty

1127
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:51,480
Speaker 2: much exact opposite.

1128
00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:52,880
Speaker 3: But yeah, he isn't all the way up.

1129
00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:55,800
Speaker 2: He's all the way up, royalty because the man for

1130
00:57:56,120 --> 00:57:59,880
Speaker 2: again decades of his career and almost every starring role,

1131
00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:02,080
Speaker 2: he went to fucking extremes.

1132
00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:03,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, and he.

1133
00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:06,240
Speaker 1: Went to extremes for my film too, but it almost

1134
00:58:06,240 --> 00:58:07,720
Speaker 1: in a completely opposite way.

1135
00:58:08,040 --> 00:58:09,920
Speaker 3: Oh, we gotta talk about your movie. It is time.

1136
00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:11,240
Speaker 3: Oh it's time.

1137
00:58:11,480 --> 00:58:16,680
Speaker 1: Well listen, folks, my movie for the theme all the

1138
00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:18,680
Speaker 1: way up Christian Bale.

1139
00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:20,760
Speaker 4: Is a movie from two thousand.

1140
00:58:21,080 --> 00:58:26,280
Speaker 1: Screenplay was written by Mary Herron and Guenevere Turner, directed

1141
00:58:26,280 --> 00:58:29,240
Speaker 1: by Mary Harron as well, and it's called American Psycho.

1142
00:58:29,640 --> 00:58:32,840
Speaker 2: I have all the characteristics of a human being, but

1143
00:58:32,920 --> 00:58:35,360
Speaker 2: not a single, clear, identifiable emotion.

1144
00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:38,240
Speaker 3: I simply am not there.

1145
00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:41,760
Speaker 2: Did you catch on that? Reggie Kathy, the actor was

1146
00:58:41,760 --> 00:58:46,040
Speaker 2: in both of our films. No, he played one of

1147
00:58:46,040 --> 00:58:48,920
Speaker 2: the Yeah, he played one of the guys in the shop. Yes,

1148
00:58:49,040 --> 00:58:51,520
Speaker 2: he was one of the machinists in the shops. And

1149
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:53,400
Speaker 2: then he was in your film. He was the guy

1150
00:58:53,400 --> 00:58:58,080
Speaker 2: who was unhoused. Oh shit, yep, Reggie, I have that

1151
00:58:58,480 --> 00:58:59,760
Speaker 2: fucking incredible actor.

1152
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:04,680
Speaker 1: Yes, that's a whole other entry point between the two films.

1153
00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:06,840
Speaker 4: That's amazing. I love when that happens.

1154
00:59:06,880 --> 00:59:10,200
Speaker 1: So, okay, I'm just gonna do one sence synopsis right

1155
00:59:10,280 --> 00:59:15,120
Speaker 1: out the gate. A young, handsome and wealthy Wall Street

1156
00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:19,800
Speaker 1: executive lives a double life as a wicked serial killer.

1157
00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:24,480
Speaker 4: Come on, solid, we know it's in the title.

1158
00:59:24,680 --> 00:59:28,560
Speaker 1: He's an American Psycho. Did you see this movie when

1159
00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:29,120
Speaker 1: it came out?

1160
00:59:29,600 --> 00:59:30,040
Speaker 3: I did.

1161
00:59:30,480 --> 00:59:31,000
Speaker 4: I did too.

1162
00:59:31,720 --> 00:59:34,480
Speaker 1: I saw it many times actually when it came out,

1163
00:59:34,520 --> 00:59:36,200
Speaker 1: Because two.

1164
00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:37,520
Speaker 4: Thousand, I was in film school.

1165
00:59:37,640 --> 00:59:40,440
Speaker 1: I was doing my undergrad But I have to say,

1166
00:59:40,480 --> 00:59:43,280
Speaker 1: and I don't know about you, I saw this movie

1167
00:59:44,400 --> 00:59:48,200
Speaker 1: not because of the book of the Brett east Nellis book,

1168
00:59:48,320 --> 00:59:50,560
Speaker 1: which I've actually never read.

1169
00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:52,960
Speaker 3: To this day, I still haven't read American Psycho.

1170
00:59:53,680 --> 00:59:58,640
Speaker 1: I actually came to this movie because of Mary Harron,

1171
00:59:58,760 --> 01:00:05,360
Speaker 1: the director her prior film, which was called I Shot

1172
01:00:05,360 --> 01:00:09,560
Speaker 1: Andy Warhol, and that was the movie that made me

1173
01:00:09,600 --> 01:00:14,120
Speaker 1: want to see American Psycho, because I mean, just generally,

1174
01:00:14,160 --> 01:00:17,120
Speaker 1: I was obsessed with nineties independent cinema. I think it

1175
01:00:17,160 --> 01:00:20,240
Speaker 1: was just, you know, if you were around in the nineties,

1176
01:00:20,240 --> 01:00:24,200
Speaker 1: there's a lot of indie movies coming out, and you know,

1177
01:00:24,520 --> 01:00:29,480
Speaker 1: I just was obsessed with Lily Taylor and like the

1178
01:00:29,600 --> 01:00:33,840
Speaker 1: Christine Vashon movies and Todd Haynes and Mary Harron. So

1179
01:00:33,880 --> 01:00:37,240
Speaker 1: I just sort of like loved all these people in

1180
01:00:37,280 --> 01:00:42,040
Speaker 1: this indie film world. And I went and saw I

1181
01:00:42,080 --> 01:00:47,120
Speaker 1: Show Andy Warhol because I was also obsessed with Valerie Salonis,

1182
01:00:47,200 --> 01:00:51,240
Speaker 1: you know, and the Scout Manifesto, which I was a

1183
01:00:51,280 --> 01:00:55,000
Speaker 1: baby feminist when I discovered the scot Manifesto, and I

1184
01:00:55,000 --> 01:00:55,400
Speaker 1: thought it.

1185
01:00:55,400 --> 01:00:58,880
Speaker 2: Was so cool that shit will if you when you

1186
01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:04,280
Speaker 2: first encountered this a manifesto. It is life changing for

1187
01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:07,320
Speaker 2: many different reasons. It is a life changing endeavor.

1188
01:01:08,040 --> 01:01:08,840
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, It's like.

1189
01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:11,520
Speaker 4: When you discover the Anarchist Cookbook or something.

1190
01:01:11,520 --> 01:01:15,080
Speaker 1: It was like this foundational text and as a young person,

1191
01:01:15,120 --> 01:01:18,200
Speaker 1: I was like, this is fucking awesome, Like here's this

1192
01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:23,880
Speaker 1: fucking cool ass lesbian feminist. It's like fuck men, and

1193
01:01:23,920 --> 01:01:25,800
Speaker 1: I'm like yeah, and this.

1194
01:01:25,840 --> 01:01:28,080
Speaker 2: Is pre internet, so it wasn't like, you know, that

1195
01:01:28,200 --> 01:01:29,880
Speaker 2: kind of mys injury was just out there.

1196
01:01:30,560 --> 01:01:31,680
Speaker 3: Yes, yes it was.

1197
01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:34,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was the early days.

1198
01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:37,240
Speaker 1: No, I'm kidding, but it was that thing of like

1199
01:01:37,240 --> 01:01:41,320
Speaker 1: like I just was obsessed with just her whole look

1200
01:01:41,440 --> 01:01:43,840
Speaker 1: and the and I actually wrote a paper about her

1201
01:01:44,160 --> 01:01:47,080
Speaker 1: for one of my intro It was like my intro

1202
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:49,920
Speaker 1: to women's studies classes. It was called I think it

1203
01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:53,280
Speaker 1: was called Valerie Salonis The Life and Times and the

1204
01:01:53,320 --> 01:01:56,840
Speaker 1: Feminist The Life and Times.

1205
01:01:58,240 --> 01:02:00,200
Speaker 3: You're like, I know one thing about her, here's her

1206
01:02:00,240 --> 01:02:00,959
Speaker 3: life and time.

1207
01:02:01,640 --> 01:02:04,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, and my like much older like second wave professor

1208
01:02:04,920 --> 01:02:08,800
Speaker 1: was like, uh uh, I don't know, she's a criminal.

1209
01:02:08,840 --> 01:02:12,000
Speaker 4: And I'm like, okay, I know, but she's so cool.

1210
01:02:12,080 --> 01:02:15,440
Speaker 1: But anyway, I watched I shot Andy Warhol because I

1211
01:02:15,480 --> 01:02:17,640
Speaker 1: was like, oh shit, I love Valerie Solanas and Lily

1212
01:02:17,720 --> 01:02:22,200
Speaker 1: Taylor's playing her amazing. But the cool thing about that

1213
01:02:22,440 --> 01:02:24,959
Speaker 1: film about I showt Andy Warhol is that it gave

1214
01:02:25,240 --> 01:02:28,640
Speaker 1: Mary Harron, you know, the opportunity to make American Psycho.

1215
01:02:28,720 --> 01:02:32,640
Speaker 1: Now she actually made I Shot Andy Warhol. That was

1216
01:02:32,680 --> 01:02:35,640
Speaker 1: her first movie and she she was forty two when

1217
01:02:35,680 --> 01:02:37,760
Speaker 1: she made her first movie, which we.

1218
01:02:37,640 --> 01:02:39,880
Speaker 3: Love, we love it always.

1219
01:02:40,440 --> 01:02:46,080
Speaker 1: So here's the thing, like it was like American Psycho

1220
01:02:46,160 --> 01:02:50,040
Speaker 1: for people who don't remember this, because there was the

1221
01:02:50,080 --> 01:02:53,720
Speaker 1: book that came out in the early nineties. Brett Easton

1222
01:02:53,800 --> 01:02:59,240
Speaker 1: Ellis wrote it. It was very controversial when it came out,

1223
01:02:59,480 --> 01:03:03,240
Speaker 1: and like I said, I've never read it, but I

1224
01:03:03,280 --> 01:03:06,000
Speaker 1: do know that Brett Easton Ellis is a very controversial

1225
01:03:06,080 --> 01:03:10,360
Speaker 1: person and he has written a lot of dark books

1226
01:03:10,880 --> 01:03:14,160
Speaker 1: in his lifetime, some of which I've actually enjoyed, right,

1227
01:03:14,400 --> 01:03:19,560
Speaker 1: not gonna lie. And I know that he has popped

1228
01:03:19,560 --> 01:03:23,600
Speaker 1: off I think on the Internet, and that might be

1229
01:03:23,680 --> 01:03:27,440
Speaker 1: just like a recent phenomenon, but he's also been like

1230
01:03:27,560 --> 01:03:31,160
Speaker 1: an enfant terib or whatever his entire life. Like he's

1231
01:03:31,200 --> 01:03:34,480
Speaker 1: always been that person, which is you know, I don't

1232
01:03:34,520 --> 01:03:37,240
Speaker 1: know he's controversial, so I don't know what else to

1233
01:03:37,280 --> 01:03:39,320
Speaker 1: say about it. I mean, I remember I was following

1234
01:03:39,400 --> 01:03:45,320
Speaker 1: him on Twitter or something like right before the Canyons

1235
01:03:45,440 --> 01:03:45,760
Speaker 1: came out.

1236
01:03:45,800 --> 01:03:47,240
Speaker 4: Do you remember what the canyons?

1237
01:03:47,360 --> 01:03:49,000
Speaker 3: God, I forgot about the Canyons.

1238
01:03:49,120 --> 01:03:52,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, And there was a moment where I was like

1239
01:03:52,920 --> 01:03:54,960
Speaker 1: I had to unfollow and I don't really know why.

1240
01:03:55,320 --> 01:03:57,240
Speaker 1: I don't know if it was a specific thing or

1241
01:03:57,320 --> 01:03:59,320
Speaker 1: just like I don't know, I don't even remember why,

1242
01:03:59,360 --> 01:04:02,760
Speaker 1: but I was just like, I can't have this energy, right,

1243
01:04:03,240 --> 01:04:06,680
Speaker 1: and I just unfollowed. But whatever, Like you know what

1244
01:04:06,680 --> 01:04:08,760
Speaker 1: I mean, it is what it is. He's he's he's

1245
01:04:08,760 --> 01:04:09,160
Speaker 1: out there.

1246
01:04:09,600 --> 01:04:12,320
Speaker 2: I've never followed him super closely, but I do know

1247
01:04:12,360 --> 01:04:15,200
Speaker 2: that he's incredibly controversial and that people find him very

1248
01:04:15,240 --> 01:04:22,000
Speaker 2: problematic for various reasons. But I've never followed him super closely.

1249
01:04:22,720 --> 01:04:25,680
Speaker 2: I've my first experience with him was in film and

1250
01:04:25,720 --> 01:04:28,720
Speaker 2: not through his books because of less than zero yes,

1251
01:04:29,760 --> 01:04:35,320
Speaker 2: And I also know, or I guess I also feel like,

1252
01:04:35,320 --> 01:04:39,440
Speaker 2: like you said, he's kind of this known provocateur, like

1253
01:04:39,520 --> 01:04:42,480
Speaker 2: he'll push a button. That's a big part of who

1254
01:04:42,520 --> 01:04:43,760
Speaker 2: he is. And I don't did you ever listen to

1255
01:04:43,800 --> 01:04:46,520
Speaker 2: that podcast. Forgive me for forgetting the name of it.

1256
01:04:46,880 --> 01:04:48,360
Speaker 2: You don't have to write in. I will look it

1257
01:04:48,440 --> 01:04:51,120
Speaker 2: up as soon as we're done recording. But there's that

1258
01:04:51,120 --> 01:04:56,400
Speaker 2: that podcast about the college he went to, and it

1259
01:04:56,520 --> 01:05:00,000
Speaker 2: was like he and a bunch of other writers and

1260
01:05:00,040 --> 01:05:03,800
Speaker 2: provocateurs kind of all came up together at this college

1261
01:05:04,280 --> 01:05:06,520
Speaker 2: and so they were right, it's an interesting podcast. I

1262
01:05:06,560 --> 01:05:08,720
Speaker 2: couldn't really get past the second episode because I was like,

1263
01:05:08,800 --> 01:05:10,040
Speaker 2: at a certain point, I was like, I don't care

1264
01:05:10,040 --> 01:05:14,520
Speaker 2: about any of these bucks. Yeah, but it was like

1265
01:05:14,720 --> 01:05:18,040
Speaker 2: Donna Tart and like all these writers and artists kind

1266
01:05:18,040 --> 01:05:19,320
Speaker 2: of went to this college together.

1267
01:05:19,360 --> 01:05:21,640
Speaker 3: So they talked about him in that podcast.

1268
01:05:21,680 --> 01:05:24,120
Speaker 2: If you're interested in learning about his origin stories or

1269
01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:27,000
Speaker 2: like who he is as a person. Yeah, but yeah,

1270
01:05:27,080 --> 01:05:29,000
Speaker 2: he's been a long time provocateur.

1271
01:05:29,160 --> 01:05:31,680
Speaker 3: I guess you could say yes, And.

1272
01:05:31,480 --> 01:05:33,680
Speaker 4: To be honest, I think I have a pretty high

1273
01:05:33,680 --> 01:05:36,520
Speaker 4: threshold for provocateurs generally.

1274
01:05:36,760 --> 01:05:37,120
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1275
01:05:37,360 --> 01:05:38,160
Speaker 4: I think there is a.

1276
01:05:38,160 --> 01:05:40,280
Speaker 1: Moment though, where I am like, Okay, I've had enough,

1277
01:05:40,440 --> 01:05:43,680
Speaker 1: Like and I don't know what that is. It's not

1278
01:05:44,880 --> 01:05:47,480
Speaker 1: I think it depends on the person and what's being said.

1279
01:05:47,480 --> 01:05:48,640
Speaker 4: But you know it happened.

1280
01:05:48,640 --> 01:05:52,520
Speaker 3: I mean It's like times where you're like, Kanye made.

1281
01:05:52,440 --> 01:05:57,440
Speaker 1: Some good songs and then you're like, okay, this I.

1282
01:05:57,440 --> 01:06:00,920
Speaker 3: Can't get anyone away forever too much.

1283
01:06:01,560 --> 01:06:04,000
Speaker 1: Right, But so it's like, you know, your mileage may

1284
01:06:04,040 --> 01:06:07,720
Speaker 1: vary with with with those types of celebrities.

1285
01:06:07,880 --> 01:06:10,880
Speaker 2: But I also think that this film is is separate.

1286
01:06:11,120 --> 01:06:13,640
Speaker 2: This film has had a life that is separate from

1287
01:06:13,680 --> 01:06:14,120
Speaker 2: the book.

1288
01:06:14,840 --> 01:06:18,480
Speaker 1: Yes, I tend to agree, but it is the thing

1289
01:06:18,600 --> 01:06:21,360
Speaker 1: too where a lot of the controversy for the book

1290
01:06:21,880 --> 01:06:23,880
Speaker 1: was based on the fact that it was super fucking

1291
01:06:24,040 --> 01:06:29,000
Speaker 1: violent and misogynists, which I think Brett Easton Ellis has

1292
01:06:29,040 --> 01:06:33,400
Speaker 1: always defended s satire, which I get. But you know

1293
01:06:33,480 --> 01:06:35,960
Speaker 1: what I think is more interesting. I mean, god, this

1294
01:06:36,000 --> 01:06:38,240
Speaker 1: episode could truly be hours long. I just have so

1295
01:06:38,480 --> 01:06:42,600
Speaker 1: there's just so much meat on this bone, including the

1296
01:06:42,640 --> 01:06:44,040
Speaker 1: fact that you're gonna love this.

1297
01:06:44,560 --> 01:06:48,200
Speaker 4: Oh, there is just tons and tons. There's multiple oral

1298
01:06:48,280 --> 01:06:51,600
Speaker 4: histories about American psycho. I'm telling you right now, so

1299
01:06:51,800 --> 01:06:54,080
Speaker 4: much information, and like.

1300
01:06:54,480 --> 01:06:58,080
Speaker 1: To go down the list of every single interesting factoid

1301
01:06:58,080 --> 01:07:00,440
Speaker 1: would take forever. But there was a couple things that

1302
01:07:00,480 --> 01:07:04,800
Speaker 1: I found were interesting. There's a vice oral history about it.

1303
01:07:05,320 --> 01:07:08,680
Speaker 1: There's actually this really great interview with Mary Harron on

1304
01:07:08,800 --> 01:07:11,720
Speaker 1: Vulture that I thought was really cool just about her

1305
01:07:11,800 --> 01:07:15,000
Speaker 1: and her and this film is ninety percent of it,

1306
01:07:15,080 --> 01:07:17,800
Speaker 1: but you know, it's very She's very interesting to me.

1307
01:07:18,560 --> 01:07:20,320
Speaker 4: So a couple of things I thought were interesting were.

1308
01:07:20,400 --> 01:07:24,040
Speaker 1: Number One, there was a couple of different directors that

1309
01:07:24,120 --> 01:07:27,560
Speaker 1: were attached to making this movie when it came out,

1310
01:07:27,720 --> 01:07:30,760
Speaker 1: and I think it's interesting that both of these people

1311
01:07:30,760 --> 01:07:32,880
Speaker 1: were horror directors. But you know, at one point, David

1312
01:07:32,960 --> 01:07:36,560
Speaker 1: Kronenberg was going to direct it. At one point Stuart Gordon,

1313
01:07:36,800 --> 01:07:39,320
Speaker 1: you know from Reanimator, was going to direct it. And

1314
01:07:39,360 --> 01:07:42,040
Speaker 1: I think the famous thing about David Cronenberg was that

1315
01:07:42,120 --> 01:07:45,200
Speaker 1: he was like, I don't want to film any of

1316
01:07:45,240 --> 01:07:48,400
Speaker 1: the restaurant scenes because I hate filming in restaurants.

1317
01:07:48,520 --> 01:07:50,000
Speaker 4: I think it's like what he was like, I don't

1318
01:07:50,080 --> 01:07:51,040
Speaker 4: like restaurants scenes.

1319
01:07:51,440 --> 01:07:55,760
Speaker 1: So they're like, well, they fetishize restaurants, so I guess

1320
01:07:55,800 --> 01:07:57,800
Speaker 1: maybe you can't direct this movie.

1321
01:07:58,480 --> 01:08:00,200
Speaker 3: I love that that was his breaking point.

1322
01:08:00,320 --> 01:08:04,880
Speaker 2: He's like Chainsaw Murder, solid restaurants, fuck off.

1323
01:08:06,200 --> 01:08:09,560
Speaker 4: And then he was never heard from again. So no,

1324
01:08:09,600 --> 01:08:12,600
Speaker 4: I'm kidding. We know he's gone on to do many

1325
01:08:12,680 --> 01:08:13,240
Speaker 4: many things.

1326
01:08:13,280 --> 01:08:18,000
Speaker 1: But the one thing though, that I do find very interesting,

1327
01:08:18,320 --> 01:08:21,760
Speaker 1: and this was completely unknown to me what I saw

1328
01:08:21,800 --> 01:08:26,160
Speaker 1: it in the theaters. Was at one point Oliver Stone

1329
01:08:26,720 --> 01:08:29,680
Speaker 1: was in the running to direct this movie, but it

1330
01:08:29,760 --> 01:08:35,080
Speaker 1: was essentially contingent upon Leonardo DiCaprio being in the movie

1331
01:08:35,280 --> 01:08:39,400
Speaker 1: and playing Patrick Bateman, really, and there was a lot

1332
01:08:39,640 --> 01:08:42,280
Speaker 1: of that kind of thing the casting of Patrick Bateman.

1333
01:08:42,320 --> 01:08:44,680
Speaker 1: There was a lot of back and forth between the

1334
01:08:44,760 --> 01:08:48,559
Speaker 1: studios and with Mary Harron in particular about who was

1335
01:08:48,560 --> 01:08:54,240
Speaker 1: going to play Patrick Bateman, and Mary Harron essentially it

1336
01:08:54,280 --> 01:08:58,240
Speaker 1: was her that was really set on having Christian Bale

1337
01:08:58,280 --> 01:09:01,880
Speaker 1: play Patrick Bateman because at the time, as we talked

1338
01:09:01,880 --> 01:09:04,960
Speaker 1: about earlier, he wasn't that famous. In two thousand, he

1339
01:09:05,000 --> 01:09:07,800
Speaker 1: had made Empire of the Sun, and the movie that

1340
01:09:07,840 --> 01:09:10,160
Speaker 1: he'd made prior to this was Velvet gold Mine, which

1341
01:09:10,200 --> 01:09:14,360
Speaker 1: was essentially an art house film, right, but Todd Hayes

1342
01:09:14,560 --> 01:09:17,280
Speaker 1: directed Velvet gold Mine was telling Mary Harron, He's like

1343
01:09:17,320 --> 01:09:18,920
Speaker 1: the best actor I've ever worked with.

1344
01:09:19,160 --> 01:09:21,320
Speaker 4: And when she met up with him, she was like,

1345
01:09:22,360 --> 01:09:23,120
Speaker 4: he's my guy.

1346
01:09:23,640 --> 01:09:27,920
Speaker 1: Like everything about him is something like he immediately gets

1347
01:09:28,000 --> 01:09:31,120
Speaker 1: what I'm trying to do with this movie, and he

1348
01:09:31,200 --> 01:09:34,320
Speaker 1: kind of has the look and everything about it. But

1349
01:09:34,400 --> 01:09:36,680
Speaker 1: of course, since he wasn't famous, the studios were like,

1350
01:09:37,560 --> 01:09:40,599
Speaker 1: uh no, like we don't want this guy. We want

1351
01:09:40,680 --> 01:09:44,799
Speaker 1: Leonardo DiCaprio to play Patrick Bateman. And they were willing

1352
01:09:45,040 --> 01:09:50,439
Speaker 1: to pay him like twenty million dollars to play Patrick Bateman,

1353
01:09:50,479 --> 01:09:54,120
Speaker 1: even though the budget for the entire film was like

1354
01:09:54,200 --> 01:09:54,840
Speaker 1: six million.

1355
01:09:55,240 --> 01:09:57,280
Speaker 2: That's a kick in the dick, Like that is so

1356
01:09:57,439 --> 01:09:59,920
Speaker 2: insulting to everyone working on that fucking movie.

1357
01:10:00,479 --> 01:10:02,800
Speaker 1: Well, and it's like, and here's the thing that's like

1358
01:10:03,439 --> 01:10:09,480
Speaker 1: interesting is that Leonardo DiCaprio had literally just become famous

1359
01:10:09,600 --> 01:10:14,240
Speaker 1: because of Titanic, right, right the late nineties, early two thousands,

1360
01:10:14,240 --> 01:10:15,439
Speaker 1: because this movie was made.

1361
01:10:15,240 --> 01:10:19,240
Speaker 4: In two thousand, right, But I read this like really.

1362
01:10:18,960 --> 01:10:23,240
Speaker 1: Interesting anecdote about this because everyone knows that the character

1363
01:10:23,280 --> 01:10:25,200
Speaker 1: of Patrick Bateman is a serial killer.

1364
01:10:25,320 --> 01:10:27,599
Speaker 4: It's very dark the role.

1365
01:10:27,680 --> 01:10:30,680
Speaker 1: He's a piece of shit in the movie and in

1366
01:10:30,720 --> 01:10:31,639
Speaker 1: the book, right.

1367
01:10:31,920 --> 01:10:35,240
Speaker 4: He's supposed to be. That's the whole essence of the story.

1368
01:10:36,120 --> 01:10:37,680
Speaker 1: And so there was a lot of like kind of

1369
01:10:37,680 --> 01:10:40,400
Speaker 1: big name actors that were like, I don't want to

1370
01:10:40,400 --> 01:10:41,360
Speaker 1: get anywhere near that.

1371
01:10:41,560 --> 01:10:43,120
Speaker 4: It's too weird, it's too dark.

1372
01:10:44,080 --> 01:10:49,679
Speaker 1: But then you know, Leonardo DiCaprio was like this teen star, right,

1373
01:10:49,760 --> 01:10:53,880
Speaker 1: and he was almost going to be Patrick Bateman right

1374
01:10:53,960 --> 01:10:57,679
Speaker 1: after Titanic, right, And.

1375
01:10:59,160 --> 01:11:03,759
Speaker 4: I read this an that is so wild doing.

1376
01:11:03,600 --> 01:11:09,840
Speaker 1: Research, which is that apparently Glorias Steinem went and met

1377
01:11:09,840 --> 01:11:14,360
Speaker 1: with Leonardo DiCaprio and said, you should not do American

1378
01:11:14,400 --> 01:11:18,800
Speaker 1: Psycho because you have all of these like you have

1379
01:11:19,040 --> 01:11:23,599
Speaker 1: like legions of female fans and they are really ready

1380
01:11:23,640 --> 01:11:24,880
Speaker 1: to see what you're about.

1381
01:11:24,640 --> 01:11:27,280
Speaker 3: To do next. And if it is.

1382
01:11:27,280 --> 01:11:29,840
Speaker 4: American Psycho, like your career is over.

1383
01:11:29,960 --> 01:11:32,599
Speaker 3: Basically that is okay.

1384
01:11:33,040 --> 01:11:39,200
Speaker 2: Again possibly unknown fact to some Gloria Steinem was Christian

1385
01:11:39,240 --> 01:11:42,439
Speaker 2: Bale's stepmother for a very long time. So did she

1386
01:11:42,520 --> 01:11:47,719
Speaker 2: put the fucking like kaputs on this for her step

1387
01:11:47,760 --> 01:11:48,639
Speaker 2: son to get the role?

1388
01:11:49,360 --> 01:11:51,320
Speaker 4: Well, I I'm unsure.

1389
01:11:51,560 --> 01:11:54,839
Speaker 1: That part to me is actually very unclear, because Gloria

1390
01:11:55,000 --> 01:11:59,080
Speaker 1: Steinem protested American Psycho like her and like the I

1391
01:11:59,160 --> 01:12:01,040
Speaker 1: think it was the National Organization of Women.

1392
01:12:01,080 --> 01:12:02,599
Speaker 4: I think everybody was.

1393
01:12:02,640 --> 01:12:06,840
Speaker 1: Against the film being made because it was so misogynists

1394
01:12:07,080 --> 01:12:10,080
Speaker 1: in their mind, right, Yeah, So I'm not sure if

1395
01:12:10,120 --> 01:12:14,480
Speaker 1: she was like, don't do this movie because it's a misogynist,

1396
01:12:15,080 --> 01:12:17,559
Speaker 1: horrible piece of shit, or like don't do this.

1397
01:12:17,479 --> 01:12:24,639
Speaker 3: Movie because no matter what, that is an interesting Thanksgiving right.

1398
01:12:24,680 --> 01:12:27,840
Speaker 1: That's exactly what Guinevere Turner said in one of the

1399
01:12:27,960 --> 01:12:28,679
Speaker 1: Oral histories.

1400
01:12:28,920 --> 01:12:30,640
Speaker 3: Ah, that's exactly.

1401
01:12:30,320 --> 01:12:32,880
Speaker 4: What she said. She was basically like, can you imagine that?

1402
01:12:32,960 --> 01:12:37,439
Speaker 1: Because she married Tritian Bale's dad the year that American

1403
01:12:37,479 --> 01:12:38,240
Speaker 1: Psycho came out.

1404
01:12:38,280 --> 01:12:41,800
Speaker 4: So I'm just like wow, yes, and he's like.

1405
01:12:42,680 --> 01:12:46,200
Speaker 2: Thanks for protesting my movies. Please pass the stuffing.

1406
01:12:48,439 --> 01:12:50,599
Speaker 4: Thank you that happens every year at my house.

1407
01:12:50,720 --> 01:12:54,840
Speaker 1: Oh god, that's why I don't go home for the holidays.

1408
01:12:55,560 --> 01:12:59,360
Speaker 2: Your family can't stop protesting this podcast. It's amazing, right, But.

1409
01:12:59,320 --> 01:13:01,920
Speaker 1: Then, okay, do the thought experiment real quick about what

1410
01:13:02,000 --> 01:13:05,000
Speaker 1: American Psycho would be like if it was Oliver.

1411
01:13:04,880 --> 01:13:07,320
Speaker 4: Stone and Leonardo DiCaprio.

1412
01:13:07,479 --> 01:13:08,320
Speaker 3: Can you imagine?

1413
01:13:08,640 --> 01:13:12,719
Speaker 2: Cannot cannot imagine for so many reasons, but particularly because

1414
01:13:13,720 --> 01:13:17,400
Speaker 2: Leonardo DiCaprio was too young when this movie came out.

1415
01:13:17,439 --> 01:13:21,400
Speaker 2: To believe for me to believably play an eighties Wall

1416
01:13:21,439 --> 01:13:23,560
Speaker 2: Street scumbag psycho.

1417
01:13:24,080 --> 01:13:26,120
Speaker 3: Yes, totally agree.

1418
01:13:26,280 --> 01:13:28,320
Speaker 4: And you know what, he had his flowers.

1419
01:13:28,360 --> 01:13:32,160
Speaker 1: He played Jordan Belford, so he got to play a scumbag, yes,

1420
01:13:32,640 --> 01:13:35,080
Speaker 1: Wall Street guy, and he was, and it was perfect.

1421
01:13:35,200 --> 01:13:38,280
Speaker 1: And as we talked about on that episode, that Wolf

1422
01:13:38,280 --> 01:13:40,880
Speaker 1: of Wall Street episode, he is all the way up

1423
01:13:40,880 --> 01:13:43,400
Speaker 1: in that so absolutely you know, but at the time,

1424
01:13:43,640 --> 01:13:46,680
Speaker 1: absolutely right, he was like a little boy.

1425
01:13:46,800 --> 01:13:47,240
Speaker 3: Yeah he was.

1426
01:13:48,120 --> 01:13:50,880
Speaker 2: I wouldn't have believed it any and Oliver Stone would

1427
01:13:50,920 --> 01:13:55,280
Speaker 2: have taken it to such intense and psychopathic levels, yes,

1428
01:13:55,360 --> 01:13:57,400
Speaker 2: that it would have been that there would have been

1429
01:13:57,400 --> 01:13:59,639
Speaker 2: no levity, no lightness. I think Mary Heron was able

1430
01:13:59,680 --> 01:14:02,640
Speaker 2: to put some comedy in there that Oliver Stone is

1431
01:14:03,200 --> 01:14:07,120
Speaker 2: physically incapable of doing, and it's so necessary to kind

1432
01:14:07,160 --> 01:14:10,840
Speaker 2: of give us some relief from the violence and the misogyny. Absolutely,

1433
01:14:11,240 --> 01:14:13,160
Speaker 2: and it would have been like just a fucking bummer

1434
01:14:13,200 --> 01:14:14,280
Speaker 2: of a movie all around.

1435
01:14:14,880 --> 01:14:15,599
Speaker 4: I totally agree.

1436
01:14:15,640 --> 01:14:18,840
Speaker 1: I actually think it's really clever that this movie ended

1437
01:14:18,920 --> 01:14:21,639
Speaker 1: up being directed by a woman and that was written

1438
01:14:21,720 --> 01:14:24,519
Speaker 1: by two women, so you know, whatever your turner. By

1439
01:14:24,560 --> 01:14:27,679
Speaker 1: the way, we've talked about her on this podcast before.

1440
01:14:27,760 --> 01:14:31,439
Speaker 1: She was in Watermelon Woman, yep, and you know she

1441
01:14:31,640 --> 01:14:35,320
Speaker 1: directed Go Fish. She's you know, very talented. You know,

1442
01:14:35,360 --> 01:14:37,400
Speaker 1: she's been in the business for a really long time.

1443
01:14:37,920 --> 01:14:41,720
Speaker 1: And from everything that I read with both of them

1444
01:14:41,920 --> 01:14:43,920
Speaker 1: through the oral histories, and the interviews and stuff that

1445
01:14:43,920 --> 01:14:44,240
Speaker 1: I read.

1446
01:14:44,320 --> 01:14:46,120
Speaker 4: I mean, they just were up to the task.

1447
01:14:46,240 --> 01:14:49,320
Speaker 1: They really wanted to make this like feminist movie that

1448
01:14:49,439 --> 01:14:55,320
Speaker 1: was going to satirize these really hyped up toxic guys, right,

1449
01:14:55,400 --> 01:14:58,519
Speaker 1: these gross eighties Wall Street Finance bros.

1450
01:14:58,920 --> 01:15:01,719
Speaker 3: And in two thousand we were kind.

1451
01:15:01,560 --> 01:15:06,080
Speaker 1: Of like being set up for like this eighties revival, right.

1452
01:15:06,680 --> 01:15:08,559
Speaker 1: I mean I remember in two thousand, I was like

1453
01:15:08,600 --> 01:15:10,960
Speaker 1: I pulled all those Depeche Mode records back out and

1454
01:15:11,000 --> 01:15:13,680
Speaker 1: I was fucking hitting them hard, like it was a

1455
01:15:13,720 --> 01:15:18,240
Speaker 1: perfect time for like that sort of eighties nostalgia, right, right.

1456
01:15:19,520 --> 01:15:22,400
Speaker 1: And I think that they knew that, and so basically

1457
01:15:22,600 --> 01:15:26,080
Speaker 1: like they were in charge of writing the script and

1458
01:15:26,560 --> 01:15:30,439
Speaker 1: you know, directing, and Mary Harron won ultimately she got

1459
01:15:30,520 --> 01:15:34,920
Speaker 1: Christian Bale to be Patrick Bateman. And you know, this

1460
01:15:34,960 --> 01:15:37,479
Speaker 1: movie is brilliant to me, and I think it's only

1461
01:15:37,600 --> 01:15:41,599
Speaker 1: gotten better over time. I think it's gotten more relevant

1462
01:15:41,600 --> 01:15:48,680
Speaker 1: over time because it is a huge, crazy satire of

1463
01:15:48,720 --> 01:15:54,960
Speaker 1: these types of guys. It's darkly funny. The horror has teeth.

1464
01:15:55,040 --> 01:15:57,280
Speaker 1: I mean, the horror is scary. The parts that are

1465
01:15:57,840 --> 01:16:01,360
Speaker 1: violent are very violent, which I think is cool, and

1466
01:16:02,880 --> 01:16:05,640
Speaker 1: the sort of like classic understanding of women who make

1467
01:16:05,680 --> 01:16:09,040
Speaker 1: horror movies is that they don't make them scary, right,

1468
01:16:09,360 --> 01:16:14,639
Speaker 1: and they provide super tons of motivation behind these bad characters.

1469
01:16:14,680 --> 01:16:17,120
Speaker 1: And I don't think that that happened in American Psycho.

1470
01:16:17,160 --> 01:16:19,200
Speaker 1: I think that they made a scary movie. I think

1471
01:16:19,240 --> 01:16:24,040
Speaker 1: they left the character of Patrick Bateman ambiguous as to

1472
01:16:24,160 --> 01:16:27,839
Speaker 1: the house and whys, and you know, it's not cozy

1473
01:16:28,040 --> 01:16:30,880
Speaker 1: and it's unsettling. The movie is very unsettling to people,

1474
01:16:30,920 --> 01:16:33,280
Speaker 1: and I think that's why when the movie came out

1475
01:16:33,320 --> 01:16:34,720
Speaker 1: it was also controversial.

1476
01:16:34,720 --> 01:16:36,240
Speaker 4: Like, I think a lot of people had problems with

1477
01:16:36,280 --> 01:16:36,880
Speaker 4: the movie too.

1478
01:16:38,920 --> 01:16:41,880
Speaker 1: And like I said, I personally believe that it's gotten

1479
01:16:41,880 --> 01:16:45,519
Speaker 1: more relevant with age, because when you consider that we

1480
01:16:46,200 --> 01:16:51,080
Speaker 1: are somehow even we are somehow in a more pervasive

1481
01:16:51,880 --> 01:16:59,680
Speaker 1: and sinister era of capitalism than we were in two thousand. Yes, absolutely,

1482
01:16:59,760 --> 01:17:04,519
Speaker 1: like the idea of Patrick Bateman and his coworkers right

1483
01:17:05,479 --> 01:17:09,479
Speaker 1: fetishizing their lifestyles to the degree that they're doing it

1484
01:17:09,520 --> 01:17:12,519
Speaker 1: in the in this film, like they're obsessed with the

1485
01:17:12,560 --> 01:17:15,880
Speaker 1: products that they use and the clothes and the glasses.

1486
01:17:16,280 --> 01:17:18,000
Speaker 1: I mean, just the idea of these guys being like

1487
01:17:18,120 --> 01:17:22,000
Speaker 1: so obsessed with the style and like with restaurant reservations

1488
01:17:22,040 --> 01:17:25,200
Speaker 1: and business cards, stock and like they're just all about

1489
01:17:25,240 --> 01:17:29,240
Speaker 1: that life. I gotta be honest with you, I personally

1490
01:17:29,680 --> 01:17:33,920
Speaker 1: know guys who are doing this thing every single day

1491
01:17:33,960 --> 01:17:38,800
Speaker 1: on social media as influencers. Same thing, Like they're like

1492
01:17:40,160 --> 01:17:45,400
Speaker 1: label people, like they're really all about that like expensive

1493
01:17:45,640 --> 01:17:47,559
Speaker 1: like private jet life and like all.

1494
01:17:47,400 --> 01:17:51,720
Speaker 4: That kind of stuff. That's who these guys are, right essentially.

1495
01:17:51,360 --> 01:17:54,439
Speaker 2: And the sattire hits The sattire of the film hits

1496
01:17:54,479 --> 01:17:57,680
Speaker 2: harder for that reason, because I think this happens with

1497
01:17:57,760 --> 01:18:01,920
Speaker 2: a lot of things that are contrab or provocative, is

1498
01:18:01,920 --> 01:18:05,960
Speaker 2: that people don't give it credit for having a longer

1499
01:18:06,000 --> 01:18:09,600
Speaker 2: shelf life than just the length of the film. Like

1500
01:18:09,640 --> 01:18:12,240
Speaker 2: the fact that this movie was provocative was also as

1501
01:18:12,280 --> 01:18:16,320
Speaker 2: much of a case study as it was a warning sign. Absolutely,

1502
01:18:16,360 --> 01:18:18,240
Speaker 2: and you know, for the time that it was made.

1503
01:18:18,280 --> 01:18:20,720
Speaker 2: And I think that people don't give this film or

1504
01:18:20,760 --> 01:18:22,720
Speaker 2: films like this enough credit for that that it was.

1505
01:18:23,280 --> 01:18:24,760
Speaker 2: You know, in the when you look back at the

1506
01:18:24,800 --> 01:18:27,240
Speaker 2: eighties from the year two thousand and think, my god,

1507
01:18:27,360 --> 01:18:31,160
Speaker 2: what what excess and what you know, how miserable and

1508
01:18:31,479 --> 01:18:34,200
Speaker 2: how much they fucked the world, And then you're like, oh,

1509
01:18:34,400 --> 01:18:36,760
Speaker 2: we learned nothing from that though, Like, to me, that

1510
01:18:36,880 --> 01:18:39,479
Speaker 2: is a huge lesson of this film from the from

1511
01:18:39,479 --> 01:18:41,600
Speaker 2: the perspective of looking how they at how they fetishized

1512
01:18:41,640 --> 01:18:42,880
Speaker 2: their lives, is that we.

1513
01:18:42,880 --> 01:18:45,519
Speaker 3: Got worse, Like it did not get better from that

1514
01:18:45,600 --> 01:18:49,040
Speaker 3: point on. We didn't look at it as a warning.

1515
01:18:49,080 --> 01:18:52,960
Speaker 2: We looked at it as something aspirational culturally, and it got.

1516
01:18:52,800 --> 01:18:55,080
Speaker 4: Worse absolute one hundred percent.

1517
01:18:55,120 --> 01:18:56,800
Speaker 1: And there were like, there was a moment too when

1518
01:18:56,800 --> 01:19:00,360
Speaker 1: I did this rewatch where I was like, I'm then

1519
01:19:00,520 --> 01:19:02,479
Speaker 1: sure now of like that chicken in the egg thing,

1520
01:19:02,520 --> 01:19:06,759
Speaker 1: where I'm like, have we always assumed that like really hot,

1521
01:19:07,000 --> 01:19:11,160
Speaker 1: rich guys who have like these sterile, perfect lives were

1522
01:19:11,160 --> 01:19:11,960
Speaker 1: serial killers?

1523
01:19:13,280 --> 01:19:17,000
Speaker 4: Or did the book in the movie make that connection.

1524
01:19:16,840 --> 01:19:19,880
Speaker 1: Like I'm like, now I'm unsure, because now I'm like, well,

1525
01:19:19,920 --> 01:19:22,520
Speaker 1: of course these guys are serial killers. Look at them

1526
01:19:22,560 --> 01:19:26,839
Speaker 1: like they're fucking crazy. Of course, these people have bodies

1527
01:19:26,840 --> 01:19:32,160
Speaker 1: hanging in their closet. They're disgusting capitalists, pigs, you.

1528
01:19:32,120 --> 01:19:36,599
Speaker 2: Know, like the pathos extends beyond what suit they're wearing

1529
01:19:36,640 --> 01:19:39,280
Speaker 2: to work. Yeah, that's just the tip of the iceberg

1530
01:19:39,280 --> 01:19:41,519
Speaker 2: with these bugs. Yeah, but it is, and it is

1531
01:19:41,720 --> 01:19:44,639
Speaker 2: very and I think that the other thing that this

1532
01:19:44,720 --> 01:19:48,200
Speaker 2: film helped me to realize during this watch it, during.

1533
01:19:48,040 --> 01:19:50,280
Speaker 3: This viewing, is that it is.

1534
01:19:51,680 --> 01:19:55,320
Speaker 2: It was more blatant, possibly in the eighties, But the

1535
01:19:55,360 --> 01:19:59,960
Speaker 2: thing that's so disconcerting about modern capitalism is how active

1536
01:20:00,200 --> 01:20:04,840
Speaker 2: people try to conceal their devotion to capitalism, Yeah, and

1537
01:20:04,880 --> 01:20:06,479
Speaker 2: how they try to make it part of well, this

1538
01:20:06,600 --> 01:20:08,400
Speaker 2: is just how I live. This is just the thing

1539
01:20:08,400 --> 01:20:11,160
Speaker 2: that I do, and you know, it's and we don't

1540
01:20:11,160 --> 01:20:12,840
Speaker 2: have to look into it deeper than that, Like we're

1541
01:20:12,880 --> 01:20:17,559
Speaker 2: actively trying to conceal capitalism now, which is still being

1542
01:20:17,560 --> 01:20:21,080
Speaker 2: fetishized obviously, but the concealment of it is what I

1543
01:20:21,120 --> 01:20:24,680
Speaker 2: find the most infuriating and degrading.

1544
01:20:25,439 --> 01:20:30,000
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, I I it's interesting because you I feel

1545
01:20:30,080 --> 01:20:34,200
Speaker 1: like culturally, like the eighties were obviously in such a huge, excessive,

1546
01:20:34,479 --> 01:20:38,640
Speaker 1: like ostentatious era, and part of me wonders if it

1547
01:20:38,680 --> 01:20:42,439
Speaker 1: came from the seventies being a little bit more chaotic,

1548
01:20:42,720 --> 01:20:49,680
Speaker 1: and you know, financially people were like not in not

1549
01:20:49,760 --> 01:20:51,679
Speaker 1: as well off as they were in the eighties, obviously,

1550
01:20:51,720 --> 01:20:54,920
Speaker 1: and so it was like kind of sheer fucking exuberance

1551
01:20:54,960 --> 01:20:57,880
Speaker 1: for being like we have funny now, yes, like let's

1552
01:20:57,920 --> 01:20:59,880
Speaker 1: go and talk about Armani suits all the time and

1553
01:21:00,120 --> 01:21:04,160
Speaker 1: be idiots in this way. But you're right, I feel

1554
01:21:04,200 --> 01:21:09,759
Speaker 1: like there's there's I think, just changing tides of people

1555
01:21:10,560 --> 01:21:14,280
Speaker 1: these days who have a lot of money and know

1556
01:21:14,320 --> 01:21:16,479
Speaker 1: they have a lot of money, but then pretend to

1557
01:21:16,560 --> 01:21:20,920
Speaker 1: be simpler than they are. Is interesting like that that

1558
01:21:21,600 --> 01:21:23,640
Speaker 1: is obviously not the eighties at all, And it's not

1559
01:21:23,760 --> 01:21:27,320
Speaker 1: these characters. They were like we out here, like we

1560
01:21:27,600 --> 01:21:29,400
Speaker 1: are rich and we don't give a shit.

1561
01:21:29,960 --> 01:21:34,439
Speaker 2: And there's there's also such a strong line, there's such

1562
01:21:34,479 --> 01:21:38,720
Speaker 2: a strong connection between capitalism and misogyny. And I think

1563
01:21:38,800 --> 01:21:41,000
Speaker 2: that if you look at it on a large scale,

1564
01:21:41,479 --> 01:21:46,120
Speaker 2: it's you know, some something like human trafficking for example,

1565
01:21:46,200 --> 01:21:48,240
Speaker 2: not to bum y'all out, but it exists.

1566
01:21:49,000 --> 01:21:49,720
Speaker 3: So you look at the.

1567
01:21:49,680 --> 01:21:54,600
Speaker 2: Greed of you know, how straight men consume women's bodies

1568
01:21:54,640 --> 01:21:57,839
Speaker 2: and brains and lives, and you know, try to denigrate

1569
01:21:57,920 --> 01:22:01,840
Speaker 2: women in order to prop themselves up. The men's rights

1570
01:22:01,880 --> 01:22:04,080
Speaker 2: movement and the in cell shit, all of that is

1571
01:22:04,120 --> 01:22:08,160
Speaker 2: tied to capitalism. It's either I want money and I

1572
01:22:08,200 --> 01:22:10,760
Speaker 2: want things and these women are preventing you from having it,

1573
01:22:11,280 --> 01:22:12,559
Speaker 2: or I have things.

1574
01:22:12,880 --> 01:22:13,679
Speaker 3: I got this shit.

1575
01:22:14,000 --> 01:22:17,840
Speaker 2: I deserve women, Yes, And it's such a sick and

1576
01:22:17,920 --> 01:22:22,960
Speaker 2: cyclical and disgusting correlation that I think most people are

1577
01:22:23,000 --> 01:22:25,960
Speaker 2: not able. They obscure it or they don't want to

1578
01:22:26,040 --> 01:22:29,680
Speaker 2: see it. But there has always been a direct, a

1579
01:22:29,760 --> 01:22:34,519
Speaker 2: direct correlation between capitalism and misogyny, and especially in America,

1580
01:22:35,479 --> 01:22:37,000
Speaker 2: but worldwide internationally.

1581
01:22:37,160 --> 01:22:39,320
Speaker 3: And so I think that this movie is smart.

1582
01:22:40,240 --> 01:22:41,720
Speaker 2: And again have not read the book, but I think

1583
01:22:41,720 --> 01:22:45,680
Speaker 2: the film itself is smart, and the screenwriter, screenwriters and

1584
01:22:45,720 --> 01:22:49,680
Speaker 2: director were smart enough to kind of emphasize that in

1585
01:22:49,720 --> 01:22:52,800
Speaker 2: a grotesque way, in an extreme way, but as a

1586
01:22:52,840 --> 01:22:57,559
Speaker 2: way of saying, these two things are connected, correct, and you.

1587
01:22:57,520 --> 01:22:59,559
Speaker 3: Know people who you know?

1588
01:22:59,600 --> 01:23:03,200
Speaker 2: Again, the fact that it's gotten worse is and it's

1589
01:23:03,240 --> 01:23:06,400
Speaker 2: become easier to conceal is What's shocking to me is

1590
01:23:06,400 --> 01:23:09,639
Speaker 2: that it's been able to be not just pervasive, but

1591
01:23:09,760 --> 01:23:13,559
Speaker 2: to become exponentially worse, and that people nowadays just do

1592
01:23:13,640 --> 01:23:16,720
Speaker 2: not even want to face the connection between the two.

1593
01:23:17,680 --> 01:23:21,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, at the core level, the character of

1594
01:23:21,560 --> 01:23:24,240
Speaker 1: Patrick Bateman, it's no surprise to me that he's a

1595
01:23:24,320 --> 01:23:29,960
Speaker 1: cannibal because he consumes. That's like his entire function is consumption.

1596
01:23:30,360 --> 01:23:33,719
Speaker 1: So it's not a bridge too far to be like, Oh,

1597
01:23:33,840 --> 01:23:37,280
Speaker 1: he loves things, but he also wants to eat people,

1598
01:23:37,640 --> 01:23:41,439
Speaker 1: Like that's just how his brain works, and like, you know, again,

1599
01:23:41,560 --> 01:23:44,280
Speaker 1: I think in a weird way, we talked about this

1600
01:23:44,400 --> 01:23:46,800
Speaker 1: during the Clockwork Orange episode where I think that people

1601
01:23:46,840 --> 01:23:51,640
Speaker 1: are really uncomfortable with, like really really bad, problematic characters

1602
01:23:52,520 --> 01:23:56,519
Speaker 1: when they're not explained, Like where the motivations for these

1603
01:23:56,680 --> 01:24:00,200
Speaker 1: bad things and this bad behavior isn't told to you?

1604
01:24:00,280 --> 01:24:00,479
Speaker 3: Right?

1605
01:24:00,680 --> 01:24:02,559
Speaker 1: That gray area is really hard to sit in and

1606
01:24:02,600 --> 01:24:06,040
Speaker 1: it is hard for me too, But I also think

1607
01:24:08,360 --> 01:24:11,240
Speaker 1: there's an I'm interested in sort of having that be

1608
01:24:11,400 --> 01:24:14,840
Speaker 1: my task to sort of unravel as a viewer, Like

1609
01:24:14,840 --> 01:24:17,559
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, well, they're not telling us that Patrick

1610
01:24:17,600 --> 01:24:20,439
Speaker 1: Bateman had a shitty childhood, or that he saw violence,

1611
01:24:20,520 --> 01:24:22,160
Speaker 1: or that he was you know what I mean, like

1612
01:24:22,520 --> 01:24:25,879
Speaker 1: a product of his rich, wealthy parents.

1613
01:24:26,240 --> 01:24:28,720
Speaker 4: No, it's just like he's a fucking psycho.

1614
01:24:29,080 --> 01:24:31,639
Speaker 3: And we don't know why.

1615
01:24:31,920 --> 01:24:34,559
Speaker 1: We just know he's a piece of shit the entire movie,

1616
01:24:35,120 --> 01:24:41,280
Speaker 1: and that maybe he is not even punished for it. Yes, Yeah,

1617
01:24:41,520 --> 01:24:43,960
Speaker 1: much like the end of Clockwork Orange where you're like

1618
01:24:44,080 --> 01:24:45,160
Speaker 1: there is no resolution.

1619
01:24:45,600 --> 01:24:48,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, like taking at faith value, there is no relief

1620
01:24:49,120 --> 01:24:52,160
Speaker 2: from how shitty this made you feel, because there is

1621
01:24:52,200 --> 01:24:54,559
Speaker 2: no relief in life, and these people are rarely punished

1622
01:24:54,800 --> 01:24:56,880
Speaker 2: for the crimes they commit against humanity.

1623
01:24:57,520 --> 01:24:59,400
Speaker 1: Yes, and I'm not saying you come out of the

1624
01:24:59,400 --> 01:25:02,120
Speaker 1: movie theater and like, I'm fucking positive, let's go have

1625
01:25:02,200 --> 01:25:05,120
Speaker 1: ice cream, like it sucks to come out of American

1626
01:25:05,160 --> 01:25:07,640
Speaker 1: Psycho sometimes and be like, oh my god, that's fucking.

1627
01:25:07,439 --> 01:25:10,639
Speaker 4: Bleak, right, And I'm a bleak ass bitch.

1628
01:25:10,720 --> 01:25:13,360
Speaker 1: We've talked about this, like, I love bleak movies, so

1629
01:25:13,520 --> 01:25:16,840
Speaker 1: of course, you know, something like this is interesting and

1630
01:25:16,920 --> 01:25:19,200
Speaker 1: fascinating to me, and that's why I like this movie

1631
01:25:19,200 --> 01:25:19,519
Speaker 1: so much.

1632
01:25:19,560 --> 01:25:20,880
Speaker 4: But I get that it's hard.

1633
01:25:20,920 --> 01:25:22,479
Speaker 1: I get that it's hard to like watch all this

1634
01:25:22,600 --> 01:25:27,479
Speaker 1: violent stuff, this very misogynist, terrible violent stuff, and then

1635
01:25:27,560 --> 01:25:31,479
Speaker 1: be like, oh, I guess he didn't that he'd got

1636
01:25:31,479 --> 01:25:31,920
Speaker 1: away with it.

1637
01:25:31,960 --> 01:25:32,599
Speaker 4: I guess wow.

1638
01:25:32,680 --> 01:25:35,480
Speaker 1: And these guys don't even give a fuck.

1639
01:25:36,040 --> 01:25:38,880
Speaker 4: That's the That is another key part to the film too.

1640
01:25:38,960 --> 01:25:41,559
Speaker 1: Without I mean, I feel like I'm this might be

1641
01:25:41,640 --> 01:25:44,719
Speaker 1: spoiler where we're alert. I guess I'm not gonna completely

1642
01:25:44,720 --> 01:25:47,800
Speaker 1: give it away. But in this way, the film is

1643
01:25:47,840 --> 01:25:50,920
Speaker 1: open ended. At the end, you can't really figure out

1644
01:25:51,040 --> 01:25:54,280
Speaker 1: if what you have seen in the movie actually happened.

1645
01:25:53,960 --> 01:25:57,360
Speaker 4: Or didn't right, right, all we know is the information

1646
01:25:57,600 --> 01:25:59,000
Speaker 4: that it's given to us, which is that.

1647
01:25:59,080 --> 01:26:02,960
Speaker 1: Like all of the fucking dudes that he knows are

1648
01:26:03,000 --> 01:26:06,559
Speaker 1: not pressed when he even talks about doing the things

1649
01:26:06,600 --> 01:26:09,200
Speaker 1: that he's done. When he confessed to the crimes, all

1650
01:26:09,240 --> 01:26:11,040
Speaker 1: these dudes are like, all right, so when are we

1651
01:26:11,080 --> 01:26:12,880
Speaker 1: getting that dinner res exactly?

1652
01:26:13,200 --> 01:26:16,080
Speaker 3: And that to me is like damn.

1653
01:26:17,680 --> 01:26:19,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, because throughout the film he constantly is like, you know,

1654
01:26:20,280 --> 01:26:21,559
Speaker 2: what do you do for a living? Well, I'm into

1655
01:26:21,640 --> 01:26:24,439
Speaker 2: murder an exploitation or violet, And the woman he's talking

1656
01:26:24,439 --> 01:26:26,320
Speaker 2: to is like, well, since you're in murders and acquisitions.

1657
01:26:26,320 --> 01:26:28,719
Speaker 2: It's like there's this obtuseness and this kind of active

1658
01:26:29,439 --> 01:26:31,720
Speaker 2: blanking that goes on where people don't want to hear

1659
01:26:31,760 --> 01:26:35,360
Speaker 2: and don't want to know what evil is lurking underneath

1660
01:26:35,479 --> 01:26:39,519
Speaker 2: their own lifestyles. And it's to the point where when

1661
01:26:39,520 --> 01:26:41,960
Speaker 2: somebody blatantly says like I will murder you or I

1662
01:26:41,960 --> 01:26:44,200
Speaker 2: will eat you or whatever, it's just taken as if

1663
01:26:44,240 --> 01:26:46,639
Speaker 2: it's you know, just light conversation, like they don't even hear,

1664
01:26:46,760 --> 01:26:49,479
Speaker 2: they're not even listening to or paying attention to, you know,

1665
01:26:49,560 --> 01:26:52,280
Speaker 2: this character. It's it's it's wild. It's wild to watch

1666
01:26:52,360 --> 01:26:53,679
Speaker 2: throughout the film where they're just.

1667
01:26:53,600 --> 01:26:57,200
Speaker 3: Like, whatever, strangle me.

1668
01:26:57,240 --> 01:26:58,760
Speaker 2: I think you're gonna I'm gonna kiss you on your

1669
01:26:58,760 --> 01:27:02,040
Speaker 2: hand as you're trying to strangle me. Yeah, because I

1670
01:27:02,040 --> 01:27:03,840
Speaker 2: think you're making a pass at me. It's just it's

1671
01:27:03,880 --> 01:27:06,080
Speaker 2: it's an interesting psychological experiment.

1672
01:27:06,760 --> 01:27:08,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's so many like I mean, listen, this

1673
01:27:09,000 --> 01:27:12,000
Speaker 1: entire movie, by the way, is filled with stars like

1674
01:27:12,680 --> 01:27:17,680
Speaker 1: Reese Witherspoon plays Patrick Bateman's girlfriend, like, his colleagues are

1675
01:27:17,680 --> 01:27:21,200
Speaker 1: like Jared Leto, Josh Lucas, Justin Threw like you know,

1676
01:27:21,280 --> 01:27:25,479
Speaker 1: his secretary is Chloe seventy. His mistress, his Samantha mathis

1677
01:27:25,520 --> 01:27:27,880
Speaker 1: Willem Dafoe' in the movie. So there's so much talent

1678
01:27:27,920 --> 01:27:30,920
Speaker 1: in this movie too, which is great. I love, like,

1679
01:27:31,080 --> 01:27:32,320
Speaker 1: I love seeing all these.

1680
01:27:32,200 --> 01:27:33,400
Speaker 3: People in the film.

1681
01:27:33,560 --> 01:27:37,760
Speaker 1: True, but everybody in his world is so fucking self obsessed.

1682
01:27:37,800 --> 01:27:41,560
Speaker 1: Like even when he's trying to break up with Reese Witherspoon,

1683
01:27:41,960 --> 01:27:44,080
Speaker 1: like when he's like taking her, like he's making like

1684
01:27:44,120 --> 01:27:45,880
Speaker 1: I can't be in a relationship with you. She's like

1685
01:27:45,920 --> 01:27:47,920
Speaker 1: looking across. This is like one of my favorite moments

1686
01:27:47,960 --> 01:27:50,040
Speaker 1: of the film where she like looks across the restaurant

1687
01:27:50,080 --> 01:27:52,000
Speaker 1: she sees this woman and she's like, oh my god,

1688
01:27:52,040 --> 01:27:54,000
Speaker 1: I love She's like miming that, like, oh my god,

1689
01:27:54,000 --> 01:27:56,439
Speaker 1: I love your bracelet, you know, And when this guy

1690
01:27:56,479 --> 01:27:59,160
Speaker 1: is like actively breaking up with her, like she's so like, oh,

1691
01:27:59,200 --> 01:28:01,440
Speaker 1: he can't wirk up with me because I'm so wonderful

1692
01:28:01,880 --> 01:28:08,280
Speaker 1: and we're such a perfect match in the rich white way,

1693
01:28:08,960 --> 01:28:12,760
Speaker 1: right that she's not even processing him wanting to end

1694
01:28:12,800 --> 01:28:13,479
Speaker 1: things with her.

1695
01:28:13,880 --> 01:28:14,080
Speaker 2: You know.

1696
01:28:14,439 --> 01:28:16,240
Speaker 3: The most she's willing to do is say, like, well,

1697
01:28:16,280 --> 01:28:18,679
Speaker 3: we share so many friends. What about our friends? Yeah?

1698
01:28:19,040 --> 01:28:21,000
Speaker 3: Like it. And that's like even their.

1699
01:28:20,840 --> 01:28:24,400
Speaker 2: Personal relationships are not personal in the film. Yes, like

1700
01:28:24,439 --> 01:28:26,800
Speaker 2: he could not tell you what her mother's name is.

1701
01:28:27,280 --> 01:28:28,000
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1702
01:28:28,120 --> 01:28:30,720
Speaker 1: There's like an inner monologue happening throughout the film with

1703
01:28:30,720 --> 01:28:33,559
Speaker 1: Patrick Bateman. He's kind of telling the viewer like, I

1704
01:28:33,600 --> 01:28:36,240
Speaker 1: am a terrible person, right, and he's but he's got

1705
01:28:36,320 --> 01:28:39,719
Speaker 1: these moments where he's very specific about what he likes

1706
01:28:40,280 --> 01:28:41,760
Speaker 1: and what his routine is.

1707
01:28:41,800 --> 01:28:42,920
Speaker 4: I mean that's like part of.

1708
01:28:42,840 --> 01:28:46,360
Speaker 1: The the the part of the thing that makes this

1709
01:28:46,400 --> 01:28:48,879
Speaker 1: movie so famous. As he's talking about like the shitty

1710
01:28:48,960 --> 01:28:52,760
Speaker 1: music he loves and all the specifics as to why

1711
01:28:53,479 --> 01:28:56,519
Speaker 1: and all the products that he uses in a shower

1712
01:28:56,720 --> 01:28:59,320
Speaker 1: and like, you know, his whole beauty routine and stuff

1713
01:28:59,360 --> 01:29:03,519
Speaker 1: like he's so stuck on, you know, the aesthetics of

1714
01:29:03,560 --> 01:29:06,040
Speaker 1: his life and that's kind of I think what everybody

1715
01:29:06,120 --> 01:29:08,720
Speaker 1: in this world is doing is there just And that,

1716
01:29:08,760 --> 01:29:12,880
Speaker 1: to me is what makes the movie funny, is that

1717
01:29:12,960 --> 01:29:16,760
Speaker 1: it's so over the top in that way where you

1718
01:29:16,760 --> 01:29:20,840
Speaker 1: know they're that scene of the business card contests, I

1719
01:29:20,880 --> 01:29:25,000
Speaker 1: know what happens like two times, but like that there

1720
01:29:25,040 --> 01:29:30,080
Speaker 1: is a moment where Christian Bale as Patrick Bateman is

1721
01:29:30,120 --> 01:29:36,559
Speaker 1: getting visibly choked up because someone has a better business card.

1722
01:29:36,479 --> 01:29:38,480
Speaker 4: Than he does.

1723
01:29:38,280 --> 01:29:43,640
Speaker 2: Yes, And the fact that also it's like these are

1724
01:29:43,720 --> 01:29:47,160
Speaker 2: supposed to be kind of the the arbiters of masculinity,

1725
01:29:47,760 --> 01:29:52,040
Speaker 2: and all they're talking about is the visual aspects of

1726
01:29:52,080 --> 01:29:55,160
Speaker 2: their lives and the kind of the minute of beauty

1727
01:29:56,120 --> 01:29:58,920
Speaker 2: in their lives, from business cards to you know, the

1728
01:29:58,960 --> 01:30:01,600
Speaker 2: type of lotion they use is also very funny, like

1729
01:30:01,640 --> 01:30:05,560
Speaker 2: a very funny commentary on how you know, these misogynistic

1730
01:30:05,880 --> 01:30:10,640
Speaker 2: assholes will denigrate women and everything that women do and

1731
01:30:10,680 --> 01:30:14,760
Speaker 2: then they kind of cross these boundaries of.

1732
01:30:16,479 --> 01:30:18,480
Speaker 3: Kind of ascribed gender roles.

1733
01:30:18,160 --> 01:30:19,600
Speaker 2: In a way like I don't know, I don't know

1734
01:30:19,640 --> 01:30:21,360
Speaker 2: if I'm explaining it the right way, but it's like

1735
01:30:21,920 --> 01:30:27,000
Speaker 2: they're worse than most women this eighties, you know, straight

1736
01:30:27,040 --> 01:30:30,320
Speaker 2: man straight women. Way, Like they're worse, and they're more

1737
01:30:30,720 --> 01:30:33,320
Speaker 2: they're kind of more cloying about it, and they're more

1738
01:30:33,920 --> 01:30:36,800
Speaker 2: you know, interested in the trivialities of it.

1739
01:30:37,280 --> 01:30:40,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're fussier, and they are laboral wars, and they

1740
01:30:40,600 --> 01:30:43,120
Speaker 1: care so much about what people think of them, you know,

1741
01:30:43,200 --> 01:30:45,640
Speaker 1: which has all been things that have been ascribed to

1742
01:30:45,680 --> 01:30:49,320
Speaker 1: women traditionally, and like these are fucking guys sitting around

1743
01:30:49,360 --> 01:30:54,120
Speaker 1: like caring about like the stupidest shit, like you know,

1744
01:30:54,200 --> 01:30:57,439
Speaker 1: and that to me is really interesting. But it is

1745
01:30:57,560 --> 01:30:59,280
Speaker 1: a huge part of the comedy of the film for me,

1746
01:30:59,400 --> 01:31:02,160
Speaker 1: is just watching these people get so caught up in

1747
01:31:02,200 --> 01:31:06,800
Speaker 1: this crazy shit and like to that point, specifically, to

1748
01:31:06,920 --> 01:31:12,360
Speaker 1: get back to the subject of this episode, I feel

1749
01:31:12,400 --> 01:31:14,639
Speaker 1: like you almost gotta be a method guy to play

1750
01:31:14,720 --> 01:31:18,200
Speaker 1: Patrick Bateman, Like, yeah, it's just like the type of

1751
01:31:18,280 --> 01:31:22,320
Speaker 1: role that only a true all the way up maniac

1752
01:31:22,360 --> 01:31:26,960
Speaker 1: could play. And Christian bail to that end is perfect

1753
01:31:27,040 --> 01:31:32,280
Speaker 1: like he to me, no shade, mister bail. But in

1754
01:31:32,320 --> 01:31:36,800
Speaker 1: the movie he is attractive in a very boring white

1755
01:31:36,880 --> 01:31:39,720
Speaker 1: guy way, just like all of the guys in this

1756
01:31:39,760 --> 01:31:43,240
Speaker 1: world are. He's just sort of like an underwear model

1757
01:31:43,280 --> 01:31:50,960
Speaker 1: guy with no uniqueness, right, And the thing about that

1758
01:31:51,080 --> 01:31:54,360
Speaker 1: really turns this guy into a horror villain for me

1759
01:31:54,600 --> 01:31:58,000
Speaker 1: is his fucking cadence, Like the way that he talks,

1760
01:31:58,439 --> 01:32:02,800
Speaker 1: which I read the research that I did that apparently

1761
01:32:02,920 --> 01:32:06,240
Speaker 1: he had used Tom Cruise as a reference for it.

1762
01:32:07,080 --> 01:32:08,599
Speaker 4: Which is perfection.

1763
01:32:09,760 --> 01:32:12,000
Speaker 3: That is wild bite.

1764
01:32:11,800 --> 01:32:14,760
Speaker 1: From the best I suppose, And like I know that

1765
01:32:14,760 --> 01:32:18,240
Speaker 1: that whole like mud mask peeling off scene is like

1766
01:32:18,280 --> 01:32:23,280
Speaker 1: really iconic. But I just have to say, the fact

1767
01:32:23,320 --> 01:32:30,879
Speaker 1: that Patrick Bateman is always really super moisturized is super

1768
01:32:31,080 --> 01:32:34,880
Speaker 1: fucking creepy to me and secretly always has been.

1769
01:32:35,880 --> 01:32:38,080
Speaker 2: Well because again, if you if you're looking at the body,

1770
01:32:38,120 --> 01:32:43,320
Speaker 2: horror of it, and how closely he revers his own

1771
01:32:43,439 --> 01:32:50,320
Speaker 2: body versus how quickly he denigrates the bodies of his victims.

1772
01:32:51,640 --> 01:32:54,320
Speaker 2: It's really wild that he pays that much attention to

1773
01:32:55,320 --> 01:32:59,320
Speaker 2: his own skin, yes from it, like a serial killer,

1774
01:32:59,320 --> 01:33:02,000
Speaker 2: and that he brings ed Dean in one conversation.

1775
01:33:02,760 --> 01:33:05,360
Speaker 3: Yes, and you're like, oh my god, like skin is

1776
01:33:05,400 --> 01:33:06,439
Speaker 3: a big part of this.

1777
01:33:07,040 --> 01:33:10,559
Speaker 4: Yes, because it's it's that consumptive quality.

1778
01:33:10,560 --> 01:33:13,679
Speaker 1: It's like wanting to wear people's skin, wanting to eat

1779
01:33:13,680 --> 01:33:14,920
Speaker 1: people wanting to consume.

1780
01:33:15,120 --> 01:33:17,280
Speaker 4: This is not you know, I mean that to me.

1781
01:33:17,520 --> 01:33:20,679
Speaker 1: I'm sorry if i'm I'm I'm sure that's been written

1782
01:33:20,680 --> 01:33:23,200
Speaker 1: about before. I'm not the first genius to come up

1783
01:33:23,240 --> 01:33:25,400
Speaker 1: with that connection, but I'm just saying that, like, yeah,

1784
01:33:25,400 --> 01:33:28,840
Speaker 1: there's a part where I gotta be honest, a bit

1785
01:33:29,000 --> 01:33:30,960
Speaker 1: of I saw a bit of myself in the scene

1786
01:33:30,960 --> 01:33:33,799
Speaker 1: where he's doing crunches to the Texas chance All masker.

1787
01:33:33,920 --> 01:33:37,080
Speaker 1: I was like, Yo, that's a that's a fucking vibe

1788
01:33:37,200 --> 01:33:40,439
Speaker 1: right there, Like I gotta I gotta get on that

1789
01:33:40,920 --> 01:33:44,480
Speaker 1: fitness regimen in the New Year is to do crunches

1790
01:33:44,560 --> 01:33:47,439
Speaker 1: maniacally to the Texas chance All massacre.

1791
01:33:48,479 --> 01:33:51,720
Speaker 4: What part of yourself are you seeing? And the just

1792
01:33:51,760 --> 01:33:54,360
Speaker 4: like just like I'm like, yo, I gotta go that hard.

1793
01:33:54,760 --> 01:33:57,000
Speaker 1: And then just like some horror movie playing in the background,

1794
01:33:57,040 --> 01:33:59,920
Speaker 1: as like it's always at my house, being like, yes,

1795
01:34:00,040 --> 01:34:00,760
Speaker 1: I'm watching.

1796
01:34:00,520 --> 01:34:04,400
Speaker 4: A terrible horror slasher pick while.

1797
01:34:04,240 --> 01:34:10,559
Speaker 1: Exercising, I'm lifting and watching and watching Reanimator. No, I

1798
01:34:10,920 --> 01:34:15,240
Speaker 1: it's funny because like, okay, I to the point of

1799
01:34:15,280 --> 01:34:16,200
Speaker 1: the skin thing.

1800
01:34:16,080 --> 01:34:17,759
Speaker 4: Like I love a dewey glow.

1801
01:34:17,800 --> 01:34:18,760
Speaker 3: I mean, come on, I'm not.

1802
01:34:19,120 --> 01:34:24,120
Speaker 1: I responded to those ilia ads on not a Monster Instagram.

1803
01:34:24,240 --> 01:34:26,880
Speaker 1: But then sometimes you'll see a celeb or like an

1804
01:34:26,920 --> 01:34:31,720
Speaker 1: influencer with that like extra slick face, like it's kind

1805
01:34:31,720 --> 01:34:34,960
Speaker 1: of like a combo of like plastic surgery and like

1806
01:34:35,200 --> 01:34:39,480
Speaker 1: tons of lamaire or whatever, and it's it's very uncanny

1807
01:34:39,560 --> 01:34:42,480
Speaker 1: Valley to me. I don't know, I don't like it. It

1808
01:34:42,280 --> 01:34:43,360
Speaker 1: seems weird.

1809
01:34:43,400 --> 01:34:45,200
Speaker 3: You know. I don't like it anyway. I don't like a.

1810
01:34:45,200 --> 01:34:47,880
Speaker 2: Face that looks like it's been covered in snot. Yes,

1811
01:34:48,120 --> 01:34:49,840
Speaker 2: like a face that looks like it like you have

1812
01:34:49,920 --> 01:34:52,400
Speaker 2: been sweating for fifteen hours straight, to me, is not

1813
01:34:52,520 --> 01:34:53,280
Speaker 2: the height of beauty.

1814
01:34:53,960 --> 01:34:54,200
Speaker 3: Yes.

1815
01:34:54,280 --> 01:34:57,200
Speaker 1: And it's like it's like I don't know if you

1816
01:34:57,280 --> 01:35:00,759
Speaker 1: ever saw Tim and Eric, but there's a that character

1817
01:35:00,960 --> 01:35:04,200
Speaker 1: Casey and his Brother where it's like like Tim Heidecker

1818
01:35:04,400 --> 01:35:07,799
Speaker 1: is covered in some like gel, this like clear gel,

1819
01:35:08,200 --> 01:35:11,719
Speaker 1: and he's like sneezing on himself while like singing karaoke.

1820
01:35:11,840 --> 01:35:14,719
Speaker 1: And I'm like, it's that face. It's that snot face

1821
01:35:14,840 --> 01:35:17,640
Speaker 1: that just freaks me the fuck out. And that's like

1822
01:35:17,680 --> 01:35:20,000
Speaker 1: Patrick Bateman is that he's like a slick face.

1823
01:35:19,880 --> 01:35:25,280
Speaker 2: Creep, exactly and exactly, and just to take this a lot,

1824
01:35:25,479 --> 01:35:27,719
Speaker 2: just to take this one step further, just to step

1825
01:35:27,760 --> 01:35:32,800
Speaker 2: it up academically, the slickness of his skin and the

1826
01:35:32,840 --> 01:35:36,640
Speaker 2: slickness of his lifestyle that he's trying to portray is

1827
01:35:36,680 --> 01:35:39,960
Speaker 2: directly correlated. He wants to be the cool I can

1828
01:35:40,000 --> 01:35:43,840
Speaker 2: get reservations at anywhere. I'm the top of the heap guy,

1829
01:35:44,240 --> 01:35:48,120
Speaker 2: and so I feel like his skin slickness is related

1830
01:35:48,160 --> 01:35:53,200
Speaker 2: to his aspirational slickness, but also the fact that because

1831
01:35:53,240 --> 01:35:56,439
Speaker 2: he's a sociopath and all of his crimes just roll

1832
01:35:56,520 --> 01:35:58,400
Speaker 2: right off of him.

1833
01:35:58,680 --> 01:36:00,320
Speaker 4: This is why I do this podcast with you.

1834
01:36:02,000 --> 01:36:06,000
Speaker 1: This is the kind of analysis that pumps me the

1835
01:36:06,080 --> 01:36:06,679
Speaker 1: fuck up.

1836
01:36:08,600 --> 01:36:10,439
Speaker 3: Like it's true. The fucking shark.

1837
01:36:10,560 --> 01:36:13,160
Speaker 2: He's a shark in every possible way, nothing will stick

1838
01:36:13,200 --> 01:36:16,640
Speaker 2: to him. He has no come up and there's no retaliation,

1839
01:36:16,720 --> 01:36:20,920
Speaker 2: there's no retribution. Is going through life just covered in

1840
01:36:21,000 --> 01:36:23,280
Speaker 2: basiline and sliding through every situation.

1841
01:36:24,000 --> 01:36:24,719
Speaker 3: One percent.

1842
01:36:24,880 --> 01:36:26,040
Speaker 4: I fucking love that shit.

1843
01:36:26,160 --> 01:36:28,120
Speaker 1: That's so I mean, that's exactly what I'm talking about

1844
01:36:28,200 --> 01:36:30,920
Speaker 1: is that I feel like there's just so many references

1845
01:36:31,360 --> 01:36:36,519
Speaker 1: to his state of being in the film that you know,

1846
01:36:36,680 --> 01:36:40,800
Speaker 1: is our aesthetic, like his style, his look, his grooming.

1847
01:36:41,200 --> 01:36:46,280
Speaker 1: You know, it's all part of this character that he is.

1848
01:36:46,720 --> 01:36:53,040
Speaker 1: And like, Christian Bale is perfect. I can't imagine anybody

1849
01:36:53,120 --> 01:36:55,320
Speaker 1: else playing this role now. I'm just like, there's no way,

1850
01:36:55,400 --> 01:36:58,000
Speaker 1: Like I've read something that Ed Norton almost played this role.

1851
01:36:58,040 --> 01:37:01,439
Speaker 1: I'm like, nah, what wouldn't have wouldn't have been this guy?

1852
01:37:01,640 --> 01:37:06,640
Speaker 1: He Christian Bail is perfect and he like as an

1853
01:37:06,680 --> 01:37:09,200
Speaker 1: actor too. There are moments like that business card scene,

1854
01:37:09,479 --> 01:37:12,640
Speaker 1: but my favorite is the confession scene where he's on

1855
01:37:12,800 --> 01:37:15,680
Speaker 1: the phone and he's like crying and laughing at the

1856
01:37:15,680 --> 01:37:17,720
Speaker 1: same time and he does that like hole, keep your

1857
01:37:17,720 --> 01:37:18,599
Speaker 1: eyes open thing.

1858
01:37:19,360 --> 01:37:22,519
Speaker 3: Fucking I was like, yeah.

1859
01:37:22,400 --> 01:37:25,519
Speaker 1: He's a way up creep, all the way up, baby,

1860
01:37:25,560 --> 01:37:28,559
Speaker 1: He's an all the way up creep and it is

1861
01:37:29,760 --> 01:37:31,240
Speaker 1: perfection for me.

1862
01:37:31,640 --> 01:37:33,479
Speaker 2: This is such a such a good pick for this

1863
01:37:33,880 --> 01:37:37,719
Speaker 2: and it's again because of the layers, the Christian Bale

1864
01:37:37,880 --> 01:37:40,679
Speaker 2: layers of all the way up in this that it brings,

1865
01:37:41,200 --> 01:37:43,680
Speaker 2: and that it was really a star making turn for

1866
01:37:43,800 --> 01:37:46,000
Speaker 2: him that it was I can't picture anyone else in

1867
01:37:46,000 --> 01:37:48,639
Speaker 2: this role, and I think that it, you know, kind

1868
01:37:48,640 --> 01:37:52,759
Speaker 2: of introduced him to the film world in a non

1869
01:37:52,920 --> 01:37:54,479
Speaker 2: Newsy swing kid's way.

1870
01:37:55,240 --> 01:37:57,719
Speaker 3: Yes, that's like, get you a man who could do everything?

1871
01:37:58,360 --> 01:38:01,559
Speaker 1: Yes, And to the early point of the body mod

1872
01:38:02,240 --> 01:38:06,320
Speaker 1: obsession that he has, he truly when he came to

1873
01:38:06,360 --> 01:38:09,240
Speaker 1: the audition, I read that he was like a skinny

1874
01:38:09,240 --> 01:38:13,040
Speaker 1: British guy, right, and then they were like, hey, dude,

1875
01:38:13,080 --> 01:38:15,400
Speaker 1: so this character is like really obsessed with his body

1876
01:38:15,439 --> 01:38:17,200
Speaker 1: and what's working out, So you might need to just

1877
01:38:17,200 --> 01:38:19,200
Speaker 1: like get a gym membership. And he came back a

1878
01:38:19,200 --> 01:38:22,759
Speaker 1: few weeks later was like I'm ripped, I'm fucking shredded

1879
01:38:23,120 --> 01:38:24,880
Speaker 1: at just do.

1880
01:38:24,920 --> 01:38:27,200
Speaker 4: Those crunches on camera.

1881
01:38:27,360 --> 01:38:30,679
Speaker 1: You know, And I'm just like he He's like again,

1882
01:38:31,040 --> 01:38:33,160
Speaker 1: like commit, He's wild for that.

1883
01:38:33,320 --> 01:38:35,840
Speaker 3: He's wild for that shit. He will commit to a

1884
01:38:35,840 --> 01:38:36,880
Speaker 3: body mod and.

1885
01:38:40,080 --> 01:38:43,360
Speaker 4: He's like, you need me to grow wings. You need

1886
01:38:43,400 --> 01:38:46,439
Speaker 4: a little devil, a little triangular devil's tail.

1887
01:38:46,560 --> 01:38:47,120
Speaker 3: I can get that.

1888
01:38:48,800 --> 01:38:50,920
Speaker 4: I'll just pop right down to South America and.

1889
01:38:50,920 --> 01:38:51,640
Speaker 3: See what we can do.

1890
01:38:51,680 --> 01:38:53,240
Speaker 4: I'll come back to this audition.

1891
01:38:53,360 --> 01:38:56,960
Speaker 1: You got a devil, you got an actual devil from

1892
01:38:57,000 --> 01:38:58,320
Speaker 1: the Middle Ages.

1893
01:38:57,920 --> 01:39:00,200
Speaker 4: From a stone statue standing in front of you, if

1894
01:39:00,200 --> 01:39:00,719
Speaker 4: you need.

1895
01:39:00,560 --> 01:39:02,720
Speaker 2: It, if you can give give me two weeks in

1896
01:39:02,760 --> 01:39:04,760
Speaker 2: Turkey and you got yourself a gargoyle.

1897
01:39:07,040 --> 01:39:09,679
Speaker 3: And then you're even a b stone? Do you want

1898
01:39:09,680 --> 01:39:10,759
Speaker 3: me to turn to stone?

1899
01:39:10,840 --> 01:39:12,639
Speaker 4: Actually? I know a guy.

1900
01:39:15,000 --> 01:39:17,439
Speaker 2: I know a guy who will change my cellular makeup

1901
01:39:19,200 --> 01:39:22,920
Speaker 2: so I can actually be fucking stone. Give me a month,

1902
01:39:24,520 --> 01:39:28,080
Speaker 2: a month and a secret layer and a bag of

1903
01:39:28,240 --> 01:39:29,440
Speaker 2: gold to balloons.

1904
01:39:29,880 --> 01:39:30,760
Speaker 3: I got you hear that?

1905
01:39:31,080 --> 01:39:31,680
Speaker 4: Did you hear that?

1906
01:39:31,800 --> 01:39:37,200
Speaker 1: Christian Bill is a stone gargoyle for his new movie Dude.

1907
01:39:37,160 --> 01:39:38,839
Speaker 3: And it's not no CGI budget.

1908
01:39:40,560 --> 01:39:43,320
Speaker 4: He actually did that ship Dude, no CGHI budget.

1909
01:39:43,320 --> 01:39:46,640
Speaker 3: Man, How the fuck they pull that off with no CGI? Oh?

1910
01:39:46,680 --> 01:39:49,160
Speaker 3: Because he turned himself into fucking rock. This is just

1911
01:39:49,360 --> 01:39:50,320
Speaker 3: he is all the way up.

1912
01:39:50,400 --> 01:39:53,360
Speaker 2: I swear to God, if somebody offered him the chance

1913
01:39:53,920 --> 01:40:00,919
Speaker 2: to play a fucking windmill, he would be become a windmill.

1914
01:40:03,520 --> 01:40:05,400
Speaker 3: He's unfucking stoppable.

1915
01:40:06,280 --> 01:40:09,559
Speaker 1: I am so glad that we picked him for the episode. Uh,

1916
01:40:09,600 --> 01:40:11,679
Speaker 1: this is one of my favorite recurring themes.

1917
01:40:11,680 --> 01:40:12,280
Speaker 3: I have to say.

1918
01:40:12,400 --> 01:40:16,200
Speaker 1: It's Uh, it's really fun to sort of talk about

1919
01:40:16,280 --> 01:40:19,520
Speaker 1: actors and sort of like I don't know their styles,

1920
01:40:19,560 --> 01:40:21,400
Speaker 1: and like I said, I mean, I'm not saying Christian

1921
01:40:21,439 --> 01:40:24,519
Speaker 1: Bayle is a bad actor now, but there there was

1922
01:40:24,760 --> 01:40:25,679
Speaker 1: a thing that I read.

1923
01:40:27,360 --> 01:40:28,360
Speaker 3: I did read this in.

1924
01:40:28,320 --> 01:40:32,760
Speaker 1: One of the articles where Josh Lucas apparently during the

1925
01:40:32,800 --> 01:40:36,680
Speaker 1: filming was like he like went to the director and

1926
01:40:36,840 --> 01:40:37,200
Speaker 1: was like.

1927
01:40:38,080 --> 01:40:40,719
Speaker 4: Is this guy good? Like I can't tell this guy's

1928
01:40:40,720 --> 01:40:41,400
Speaker 4: a good actor.

1929
01:40:42,560 --> 01:40:45,320
Speaker 1: And apparently Josh Lucas said that to Christian Bale, like

1930
01:40:45,800 --> 01:40:48,840
Speaker 1: many years after the movie was made. It's like, dude,

1931
01:40:48,840 --> 01:40:50,920
Speaker 1: you know on set we all thought you were you

1932
01:40:51,000 --> 01:40:51,960
Speaker 1: might have been a bad actor.

1933
01:40:52,000 --> 01:40:54,040
Speaker 3: We couldn't figure it out. Oh shut up.

1934
01:40:54,479 --> 01:40:56,720
Speaker 4: That to me, it just cracks me up. It just

1935
01:40:56,760 --> 01:40:59,280
Speaker 4: cracks me up. And I mean, obviously Christian Bale is

1936
01:40:59,439 --> 01:41:02,360
Speaker 4: good to the degree which he does so many movies

1937
01:41:02,439 --> 01:41:03,960
Speaker 4: and he's like a worldwide star.

1938
01:41:04,360 --> 01:41:07,679
Speaker 2: So and he inhabits like he will keep he keeps

1939
01:41:07,680 --> 01:41:09,920
Speaker 2: you on your fucking toes like that's part of his

1940
01:41:09,960 --> 01:41:12,519
Speaker 2: all the way up. Noess is that I think he

1941
01:41:12,600 --> 01:41:16,920
Speaker 2: never makes the next decision for a character based.

1942
01:41:16,680 --> 01:41:17,760
Speaker 3: On what you think he should do.

1943
01:41:18,320 --> 01:41:20,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's like, I will be in Rescue Dawn next,

1944
01:41:20,840 --> 01:41:24,679
Speaker 2: don't you can't stop me. Yeah, like in between Batman movies,

1945
01:41:24,720 --> 01:41:27,160
Speaker 2: he did these insane indie films. Like he's he will

1946
01:41:27,200 --> 01:41:31,640
Speaker 2: always make a different choice and a difficult choice, but

1947
01:41:31,720 --> 01:41:35,120
Speaker 2: also a more interesting choice, and I think that makes

1948
01:41:35,160 --> 01:41:36,360
Speaker 2: him a better actor.

1949
01:41:37,360 --> 01:41:37,639
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1950
01:41:38,000 --> 01:41:42,439
Speaker 1: You know, it's funny because I just watched Amsterdam, which

1951
01:41:42,640 --> 01:41:47,960
Speaker 1: apparently was was a bomb according to the Hollywood you know,

1952
01:41:48,080 --> 01:41:52,439
Speaker 1: commercial machine. Amsterdam was a bomb, but I actually thought

1953
01:41:52,439 --> 01:41:54,559
Speaker 1: it wasn't as bad like as people had told me

1954
01:41:54,600 --> 01:41:57,120
Speaker 1: it was, or maybe that the box office has suggested

1955
01:41:57,160 --> 01:41:58,880
Speaker 1: it was. And I was like, oh, yeah, he's out

1956
01:41:58,880 --> 01:42:03,800
Speaker 1: there being a freak in that movie too, and it's enjoyable.

1957
01:42:04,320 --> 01:42:07,760
Speaker 1: Like he's like a character actor in a weird way.

1958
01:42:07,840 --> 01:42:08,880
Speaker 3: He's Batman, but he.

1959
01:42:08,840 --> 01:42:10,080
Speaker 4: Also is a character actor.

1960
01:42:10,200 --> 01:42:12,599
Speaker 3: So I think he's a very interesting actor.

1961
01:42:12,640 --> 01:42:15,000
Speaker 2: And as he ages, I'm just more and more interested

1962
01:42:15,000 --> 01:42:16,840
Speaker 2: in what he will do. But I do think that

1963
01:42:16,960 --> 01:42:20,040
Speaker 2: his all the way upness, even though it was previously

1964
01:42:20,120 --> 01:42:23,519
Speaker 2: rooted in body mod I think that he does bring

1965
01:42:23,520 --> 01:42:26,080
Speaker 2: a level of all the way upness to any character

1966
01:42:26,160 --> 01:42:27,560
Speaker 2: that he portrays.

1967
01:42:27,880 --> 01:42:30,680
Speaker 1: Oh, I completely agree. We salute you all the way

1968
01:42:30,760 --> 01:42:33,639
Speaker 1: up King. Okay, so if you want to email us

1969
01:42:33,640 --> 01:42:35,240
Speaker 1: for any reason, we are at I Saw What You

1970
01:42:35,240 --> 01:42:39,000
Speaker 1: Did Pod at gmail dot com. Please send us questions

1971
01:42:39,000 --> 01:42:41,080
Speaker 1: for bonus episodes, which are now on the main feed.

1972
01:42:41,680 --> 01:42:44,840
Speaker 2: Yes, so yes, and you can also find us on

1973
01:42:44,840 --> 01:42:47,360
Speaker 2: our socials at I Saw Pod, on Instagram and Twitter.

1974
01:42:47,680 --> 01:42:50,040
Speaker 2: If you look on our Instagram link tree, you can

1975
01:42:50,080 --> 01:42:52,040
Speaker 2: also find our po box. If you want to send

1976
01:42:52,080 --> 01:42:54,920
Speaker 2: us nice things in the mail.

1977
01:42:55,880 --> 01:42:59,080
Speaker 1: That's right, and we've got merch please go to the

1978
01:42:59,160 --> 01:43:01,439
Speaker 1: I Saw What You Did section of the exactly Right

1979
01:43:01,479 --> 01:43:06,680
Speaker 1: shop on exactly Rightmedia dot com. Danielle, would you like

1980
01:43:06,800 --> 01:43:10,720
Speaker 1: to tell the folks the movies for next episode?

1981
01:43:10,800 --> 01:43:14,080
Speaker 2: I would like nothing more because our movies for next

1982
01:43:14,080 --> 01:43:17,960
Speaker 2: week are Romeo Must Die from the Ear two thousand

1983
01:43:18,760 --> 01:43:21,439
Speaker 2: and Queen of the Damned from two thousand and two.

1984
01:43:22,479 --> 01:43:25,960
Speaker 4: Damn, I cannot fucking wait.

1985
01:43:27,439 --> 01:43:31,720
Speaker 3: A golden Era, a golden era.

1986
01:43:31,800 --> 01:43:34,360
Speaker 2: And if you're a wondering Plus subscriber, you can listen

1987
01:43:34,360 --> 01:43:35,400
Speaker 2: to that episode right now.

1988
01:43:36,120 --> 01:43:38,719
Speaker 1: That's right, it's up right now, which is the benefit

1989
01:43:38,800 --> 01:43:41,920
Speaker 1: of being a Plus member. So have a self a

1990
01:43:42,000 --> 01:43:48,439
Speaker 1: listen and know that we're excited when we're doing it. Well, Danielle,

1991
01:43:48,479 --> 01:43:50,639
Speaker 1: it's always a fucking pleasure doing this podcast with.

1992
01:43:50,600 --> 01:43:54,080
Speaker 2: You, always, always the best. I can't wait till next

1993
01:43:54,240 --> 01:43:58,439
Speaker 2: next week, next recording, and we love our listeners so much.

1994
01:43:58,439 --> 01:43:59,320
Speaker 3: Thanks for joining us.

1995
01:44:00,080 --> 01:44:04,840
Speaker 4: See you, sued bye.

1996
01:44:08,600 --> 01:44:11,639
Speaker 2: This has been an exactly right production. Produced by Casey O'Brien,

1997
01:44:11,880 --> 01:44:14,400
Speaker 2: mixed by Edson Choi. Our theme song is by Tom

1998
01:44:14,439 --> 01:44:18,200
Speaker 2: bry Fogel. Artwork by Garrett Ross. Our executive producers are

1999
01:44:18,280 --> 01:44:21,599
Speaker 2: Georgia Hartstart, karenkile Gareff, and Daniel Kramer. You can follow

2000
01:44:21,680 --> 01:44:24,599
Speaker 2: us on Instagram and Twitter at I Saw pod, and

2001
01:44:24,680 --> 01:44:26,680
Speaker 2: you can email us at I Saw What You Did

2002
01:44:26,720 --> 01:44:27,719
Speaker 2: Pod at gmail