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Speaker 1: All right, the tip the Filia Oh.

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Speaker 2: It began on Groundhog Day of nineteen ninety eight, Brian

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Speaker 2: Cashman was hired as the Yankees general manager. In the

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Speaker 2: nine thy, six hundred and six days that have elapsed

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Speaker 2: since that day and this podcast, Brian Cashman has celebrated

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Speaker 2: four World Series championships, but also one of the longest

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Speaker 2: World Series.

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Speaker 1: Droughts in team history.

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Speaker 2: Superstars have come and gone, the world of sports has changed,

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Speaker 2: the world itself has changed, but Brian Cashman remains. In

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Speaker 2: this episode of Frank Conversation with Andy Martino of s

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Speaker 2: n Y, author of one of the hottest sports books

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Speaker 2: in years, The Yankee Way, the untold story of the

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Speaker 2: Brian Cashman Era. Quick word from our sponsor, Odds Jam,

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Speaker 2: and then we're back with Andy.

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Speaker 1: Welcome, Hey, pull me back. Looking to boost your sports

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Speaker 2: odds jam. All right, how's it going everybody? Welcome back

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Speaker 2: and welcome to my very special guest this evening, mister

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Speaker 2: Andy Martino. Andy, congrats on the new book.

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Speaker 1: How you doing?

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Speaker 3: I'm doing better after watching that intro, Derek, I didn't

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Speaker 3: know I'd written one.

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Speaker 4: Of the hottest sports books in years. Beout. That was

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Speaker 4: very kind.

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Speaker 2: I've had so many people over the last few days.

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Speaker 2: I get a voicemail box full of voicemails every day,

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Speaker 2: people saying, get Andy Martino on he got this new

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Speaker 2: Cashman book. I probably had ten people call in about it,

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Speaker 2: and that's that never happens, So people are anxious to

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Speaker 2: read this book. I think Brian Cashman has made a

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Speaker 2: lot of under the radar moves in.

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Speaker 1: Addition to his big, high profile moves.

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Speaker 2: But one of them we got to talk about first

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Speaker 2: before anything is Louise Heel because he was actually traded

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Speaker 2: to the Yankees a few years back. He's taken the

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Speaker 2: league by storm. What are your thoughts on Louise heill Man.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know Garrett Cole, who I think he'll now

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Speaker 3: calls in the professor, the teacher, right, depending on he'll

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Speaker 3: calls in that.

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Speaker 4: And Cole is the biggest fan.

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Speaker 3: I was talking to Cole in the dugout during the

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Speaker 3: previous homestand and he's just like, this guy's got one

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Speaker 3: of the best fastballs you're ever going to see. It's incredible.

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Speaker 3: Most starting pitchers need two three pitches and Cole was like,

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Speaker 3: Heil could just do it with his fastball. He's like

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Speaker 3: one of these only guys who So it's an unbelievable

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Speaker 3: It's a guy on the ascent, and it's interesting. It

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Speaker 3: makes me think Derek when you say Brian Cashman got

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Speaker 3: him the book sort of details and a lot of

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Speaker 3: what I learned is how collaborative front office is. So

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Speaker 3: obviously the buck stops at the boss, the general manager

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Speaker 3: of any team, but when you look at what the

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Speaker 3: Yankees have tried to put in the place over the

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Speaker 3: past decade or so, and they've tried to fine tune it.

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Speaker 3: It's pro scouting, and they want their pro scouts to

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Speaker 3: have a knowledge of the analytics side so everyone can

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Speaker 3: look at potential acquisitions through both lenses, and they want

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Speaker 3: to see, who's a pitcher who has one pitch, maybe two,

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Speaker 3: oftentimes just one that really sticks out that we could emphasize,

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Speaker 3: coach and improve.

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Speaker 4: And Heals another one of those examples.

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Speaker 3: They saw him in the Dominican Summer League when he

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Speaker 3: was a young kid. Obviously, trade him for Jay Cave,

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Speaker 3: which is looking like a steal because they know they

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Speaker 3: have great, great scouts.

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Speaker 4: And in all this analytics.

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Speaker 3: That goes on around the Yankees, it's sort of forgotten

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Speaker 3: like what a robust pro scouting department they have, but

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Speaker 3: their scouts know how to look through that analytical lens

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Speaker 3: as well. Clay Holmes is another great example. But this

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Speaker 3: goes all the way back to the first tim Neering,

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Speaker 3: who's probably Cashman's most trusted baseball evaluator told me this

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Speaker 3: really kind of goes back to Brandon McCarthy, which is

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Speaker 3: like a decade ago when they were looking at his

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Speaker 3: pitch mix in Arizona and be like, this guy should

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Speaker 3: be better. Let's trade for him make him better. So

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Speaker 3: they've been doing this for a long time. Chad Green,

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Speaker 3: maybe you could go on and on, but in bringing

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Speaker 3: in a Matt Blake in twenty nineteen after the twenty

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Speaker 3: nineteen season. To now continue that cohesion with these efforts

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Speaker 3: at the big league level has been has created a

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Speaker 3: pitching program that's obviously been outstanding. You've created your Michael

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Speaker 3: King's and your Clark Schmidt's and your heels. So it's

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Speaker 3: Cashman overseeing everything, but it's really the approach that he mandates,

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Speaker 3: trickling down through scouts, analysts, coaches, that.

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Speaker 4: Sort of thing.

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Speaker 2: I'll give you a couple more that people may have

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Speaker 2: forgotten about Aaron Small and Sean Chacohone. Those guys weren't

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Speaker 2: I mean guys who never won anything and they came

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Speaker 2: to the Yankees and just were outstanding. Shaun Chaconne, I

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Speaker 2: think want a playoff. I think Aaron Small might have

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Speaker 2: want a playoff game too. But tell us a little

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Speaker 2: bit about the origins of this book. How did it

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Speaker 2: get started? What made you think Brian Cashman let's get

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Speaker 2: his story told, and how did that even happen. You

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Speaker 2: wouldn't think that Brian Cashman, an active GM, would want

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Speaker 2: his complete story told while he still got a job.

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Speaker 3: He did not and he does not, And it was

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Speaker 3: very hard to convince him to be interviewed for this book.

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Speaker 4: So I'll take you back. My first book was called Cheated.

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Speaker 3: It was about the sign stealing era in the Houston

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Speaker 3: Astros primarily, but what all teams were doing at that

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Speaker 3: time and not doing at that time, and just the

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Speaker 3: whole context and part of the reporting of that book,

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Speaker 3: one thread was learning about how the Yankee front office

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Speaker 3: had built up this whole Baby Bomber's era and in

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Speaker 3: seventeen they thought it was their year and then they

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Speaker 3: feel they did it the right way and then ran

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Speaker 3: into a cheating team and got screwed for a number

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Speaker 3: of different playoffs. I mean, the Astros are it's not

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Speaker 3: as discussed, but they were also cheating in twenty nineteen

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Speaker 3: during the ALCS. So I'd known Cashman and his lieutenants

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Speaker 3: from covering them from my job at US and Why

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Speaker 3: and previously the Daily News.

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Speaker 4: But I really dug in even deeper with that.

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Speaker 3: Book, and I thought, coming out of it, when you're

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Speaker 3: trying to come up with the next project, I thought,

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Speaker 3: you know, the Yankees really do have an interesting group

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Speaker 3: of people that I'd like to learn even more. And

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Speaker 3: this is kind of what I tried to pitch to

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Speaker 3: Cashman when I had the idea and wanted to interview him, said,

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Speaker 3: you guys have.

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Speaker 4: Continuity that no one can match in this game.

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Speaker 3: So whether somebody likes the Yankees or dislikes them, whether

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Speaker 3: a Yankee fan likes Cashman and I wants them fired,

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Speaker 3: it's a fact that they have a baseball operations tradition

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Speaker 3: that goes back to the sixties, seventies through line eighties,

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Speaker 3: nineties to now. The Eighties are the closest team that

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Speaker 3: can claim that because Sandy Alderson, the Billy being the

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Speaker 3: David Forrest the early eighties. But the Yankee's go even

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Speaker 3: further back. So I said to cash Bean, like, I

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Speaker 3: think I can tell the story of the entire sport

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Speaker 3: through you and through your time here. Not to answer

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Speaker 3: this question too long, Derek, but Cashman told me that

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Speaker 3: when he got there in eighty six, is an intern

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Speaker 3: part of his job.

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Speaker 4: The way they got the.

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Speaker 3: Minor league data was there's an answering machine in the office.

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Speaker 3: Every morning, the manager of every minor league affiliate calls

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Speaker 3: up and says, okay, game time was seven oh eight,

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Speaker 3: temperature was seventy one degrees. Andy Stankowitz led off and

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Speaker 3: he was one for four with two walks, and Cashman's

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Speaker 3: writing it down and bringing it to like Billy Martin

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Speaker 3: the manager. Now they have these high speed cameras in

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Speaker 3: every ballpark, so this man has lived the modernization of

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Speaker 3: the game. I wanted to write that story, and he's

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Speaker 3: been obviously very successful.

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Speaker 4: So he and I have a.

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Speaker 3: Decent relationship conversational, respectful, mutually respectful, I think. But when

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Speaker 3: I proposed that to him, he got real cold on me,

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Speaker 3: and I was like, this is what I want to do.

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Speaker 3: He's like okay, and it was like awkward, Paulus, and

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Speaker 3: this is like, uh so are you saying yes?

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Speaker 4: You're saying no? Do you want me to not bug

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Speaker 4: you about this? He's like no, I don't know, like.

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Speaker 3: These long pauses, it's just like okay, I don't know

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Speaker 3: what this guy's intention is here, so we'll talk about

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Speaker 3: it again. I run into him at the GM meetings

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Speaker 3: a month or so later. This is fall of twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty one. It's like six am because we're on East

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Speaker 3: Coast time. We're at the coffee shop in the hotel, Like, Hey,

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Speaker 3: you want to sit down talk about the book idea?

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Speaker 3: He's like sure, I'm like, so, do you have any

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Speaker 3: concerns you want to express?

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Speaker 4: He's like not really.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, do you want me to stop asking?

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Speaker 2: He's like no, Oh, I wonder if this is how

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Speaker 2: he negotiates with GMS.

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Speaker 1: You know, hey, do you want Bryce Harper? I don't know.

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Speaker 3: That's actually a really good point, because he's known for

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Speaker 3: being kind of mysterious and keeps his cards closer.

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Speaker 4: In a sense, maybe we were negotiating. You know, it's fun.

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Speaker 3: I told this story a couple of times, and you're

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Speaker 3: the first person to suggest that. I think that's a

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Speaker 3: great thought that he was kind of negotiating with me

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Speaker 3: about what this was going to be. Finally, after many

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Speaker 3: more little talks like this, I figured out that his

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Speaker 3: hesitation was he, as you said, he's still in the job.

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Speaker 4: He's not writing a book.

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Speaker 3: He doesn't want anyone to think he's writing a book,

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Speaker 3: and it's just not the right time for that. So

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Speaker 3: I said, well, that's perfect, because what I want to

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Speaker 3: do is not write your book. I want to write

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Speaker 3: a piece of reporting that interviews you at great length,

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Speaker 3: but all your lieutenants, everyone you've ever worked with, players, coaches, scouts, agents,

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Speaker 3: you know, tell the whole story and not feel like

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Speaker 3: I have to pull any punches.

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Speaker 4: It's not your book.

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Speaker 3: And he's like, well, if that's what you're doing, I

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Speaker 3: don't have the right to tell you not to write

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Speaker 3: a book. So I'm like, that sounds like a yes

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Speaker 3: to me. We're doing it, you know, as close as

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Speaker 3: we really got to yes. And he was never that

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Speaker 3: comfortable with a concept. But I'm very appreciative of the

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Speaker 3: fact that once he said Okay, if that's what you're doing,

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Speaker 3: I can't stop you. He was extremely accessible. He as

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Speaker 3: long as I interviewed other people and it wasn't just

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Speaker 3: his book, he will continue to talk to me. And

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Speaker 3: he didn't tell other people to not talk to me,

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Speaker 3: which is nice because a guy like that could shut

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Speaker 3: me down with other sources if he didn't want this done.

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Speaker 3: So basically I had a bit of a green light

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Speaker 3: to go ahead and pursue it on my own.

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Speaker 4: He took my calls constantly. I'd say it was about two.

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Speaker 3: Years of I figured out he drove to the stadium

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Speaker 3: around ten or eleven every day.

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Speaker 4: I'd call him when he's in.

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Speaker 3: The car, so he's bored enough to pick up roll

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Speaker 3: tape talk to him for a while, I don't know,

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Speaker 3: fifteen minutes about Chuck Knoblock or twenty minutes about Aaron

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Speaker 3: Judge or whatever, and then Okay, dude, you gotta go. Okay,

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Speaker 3: I'll try tomorrow. And so he was great like that.

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Speaker 2: I'm just hoping he wasn't spending his entire twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: two off season talking to you because we didn't really

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Speaker 2: add much, you know, maybe that's.

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Speaker 1: Why skip the third basement. Now.

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Speaker 2: I appreciate this book and I can't wait to read it.

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Speaker 2: But one of the things that I'm very interested in

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Speaker 2: is his relationship with hal Steinbrenner versus his relationship with

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Speaker 2: George Steinbrenner, because he's been the GM under both of them.

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Speaker 2: What are those two like, you know, as bosses? Like

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Speaker 2: obviously George steinber had a workplace that wouldn't fly in

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Speaker 2: today's today's modern life, But how is hal Steinbrenner different

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Speaker 2: and how is their relationship? What's that dynamic?

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Speaker 4: Like it is so different, those two are so different.

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Speaker 3: At one point, I asked, how in the interview for

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Speaker 3: this book, are you defining yourself in opposition to your father?

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Speaker 3: And He's like, no, I get it. It's a fair question,

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Speaker 3: but we're just really different people. George Steinbrenner was horrible

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Speaker 3: to work for by all accounts. Now I having said that,

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Speaker 3: there's also great things here. Susan Waldman told me that

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Speaker 3: people would stop her on the street and say, you know,

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Speaker 3: George Steinbrenner paid for my college and nobody knows this

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Speaker 3: dway goodn't though I.

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Speaker 4: Know through my work.

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Speaker 3: I said, why George really took care of him when

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Speaker 3: he was having personal problems. So you know, people are complicated.

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Speaker 3: But as a boss, it was really bad because it

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Speaker 3: was hiring firing people. There's a story in the book

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Speaker 3: about Tommy John when he was pitchy for the Yankees.

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Speaker 3: Brian Cashman's an intern working at the security desk, which

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Speaker 3: is kind of a funny picture. He's a security guy

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Speaker 3: Yankee Stadium in the in the late eighties.

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Speaker 4: And.

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Speaker 3: Steinbrenner goes, basically, the Yankees were losing, so can I

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Speaker 3: swear on this podcast?

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, go for it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Okay, so it's in the book.

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Speaker 3: This is a cashroom quote. He's like, you guys are

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Speaker 3: gonna shit the bed on me. I'm gonna fucking screw

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Speaker 3: your families. We're putting your families up in the upper deck.

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Speaker 3: Family seats are usually like behind the dugout, so Tommy

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Speaker 3: John's wife is in the in the nose blaze.

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Speaker 4: Lashman's sitting there.

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Speaker 3: One day, it's like a couple of minutes before game time,

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Speaker 3: and Tommy John comes like a heat seeking missile, according

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Speaker 3: to Cashman, onto an elevator with fans up to the

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Speaker 3: sleep level and spikes in his uniform, ready to kill

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Speaker 3: George Steinbrener because he screwed his family by putting him

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Speaker 3: up in the upper deck. And Cashman's like, oh my god,

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Speaker 3: because back then apparently to get to the suite, to

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Speaker 3: get to the owner's box with the same elevator as sweet.

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Speaker 3: So there's Tommy Jen in his uniform, his pinstripes looking

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Speaker 3: for Steinrenner to beat him up for something. And this

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Speaker 3: is like the daily chaos of life under George Steinbrenner

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Speaker 3: when he got suspended in nineteen ninety. Tony Kubeck on

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Speaker 3: the air is the analyst that night, and he's like,

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Speaker 3: we should have a Howie Spirit day. I mean a

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Speaker 3: gambler that got George suspended through his involvement. So can

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Speaker 3: you imagine if hal got in trouble and Paul o'neon

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Speaker 3: yes goes, Thank god, Hell's gone.

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Speaker 4: I mean, you.

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Speaker 3: Couldn't fathom it. That's how bad it was with George.

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Speaker 3: People really like working for how One misperception of him

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Speaker 3: is that he's not passionate. Actually, he quite emotional behind

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Speaker 3: the scenes, and when fellow owners see him at owner's

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Speaker 3: meetings when the Yankees are on a bad streak, they

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Speaker 3: see like he's really upset and wearing it. And he

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Speaker 3: can give his underlings a hard time too. But he

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Speaker 3: believes in process. He believes in sticking with a plan

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Speaker 3: for a rational amount of time. Time. He's not firing

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Speaker 3: a manager in the middle of the night just because

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Speaker 3: he didn't like a.

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Speaker 4: Move or two.

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Speaker 3: I mean literally, George would come to the press room

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Speaker 3: at one am and be like, you know what, g

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Speaker 3: Michael's not the manager anymore, clide king. I know you

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Speaker 3: think he's the pitching coach. He's the manager. Now stick

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Speaker 3: as a scout and Billy Martin's going to go to

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Speaker 3: the broadcast poof. It's was like, literally, this is the

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Speaker 3: stuff that was going and then like a month later

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Speaker 3: it would change practically, so Hal obviously is not running

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Speaker 3: the team.

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Speaker 2: That way organizing the you know, front office and the

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Speaker 2: coaches and stuff, kind of like you reorganized the lineup,

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Speaker 2: you know, I mean, let's move this guy to clean up,

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Speaker 2: Let's move this guy to GM, let's move the das tomorrow.

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Speaker 2: He's gonna be our new head scout. Now, that's that's

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Speaker 2: really interesting. I was born in eighty three, so I missed.

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Speaker 1: A lot of that.

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Speaker 2: Like I became a fan kind of at birth, but

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Speaker 2: I didn't really start watching intently until you know, probably

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Speaker 2: ninety one or ninety two. So by then George was

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Speaker 2: out of baseball. So I had more the second era

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Speaker 2: of George, the ninety six years, where he was kind of,

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Speaker 2: you know, the tamed lion and he was somewhat satiated

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Speaker 2: because the Yankees were winning, you know, every year. So

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Speaker 2: I didn't get to see him make a lot of

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Speaker 2: those those moves. But how sealed the deal with Aaron Judge?

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Speaker 2: How involved was Cashman in that? Because I mean I'd

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Speaker 2: imagine that if you know, if you're negotiating something three

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Speaker 2: hundred and fifty four hundred million dollars, you kind of

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Speaker 2: got to go to the boss to kind of to

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Speaker 2: push that across the finish line.

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Speaker 3: You're right, every contract on that level becomes an ownership decision.

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Speaker 3: But Cashman was intimately involved because that group works together

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Speaker 3: really closely. I was at that GM meeting spending a

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Speaker 3: lot of time with the Yankee group, excuse me, the

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Speaker 3: winter meetings in December of twenty two, spending on the

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Speaker 3: time of that Yankee group, and they were freaking out.

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Speaker 3: They really thought they were going to lose him. They

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Speaker 3: didn't know where he was. They didn't know if he

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Speaker 3: was flying to San Diego like was reported.

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Speaker 4: They didn't.

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Speaker 3: I told the Yankee official that he was meeting with

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Speaker 3: the Padres, and that official was like what we thought.

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Speaker 4: We were worried about the giants. It was a crazy time.

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Speaker 3: But Cashman, Randy Levi, the president is going to be

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Speaker 3: involved in a deal that big.

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Speaker 4: And how even Boone was involved? I should say even Boone.

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Speaker 3: I mean he's obviously not in the front office, but

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Speaker 3: he has this very very close relationship with Judge Oh.

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Speaker 3: I see Robert rob Holms said my Fairport class in

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Speaker 3: ninety nine. I just want to say, hi, Rob in

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Speaker 3: twenty five years, but thank you for popping in. You

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Speaker 3: see you man anyway, Sorry about that, Derek so Cashman

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Speaker 3: was involved in negotiations. He was he was running point

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Speaker 3: talking to the agent like a GM would. But you're

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Speaker 3: right that basically that last night Hal clinched it by

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Speaker 3: going to that ninth year. But there was all like

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Speaker 3: a swirl of activity. This was the day after. Let

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Speaker 3: me think back, it was the Okay, so the Arson

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Speaker 3: Judge thing happened during the afternoon, so then deep into

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Speaker 3: that night. I think I'm remembering this right. Aaron Boone

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Speaker 3: was up in this bar. It was on the forty

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Speaker 3: ninth floor of the hotel that everyone was staying in

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Speaker 3: San Diego with the Yankee front office. Cash was in

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Speaker 3: the suite working on the deal, and Boone was like,

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Speaker 3: should I call him? Is this a good time to

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Speaker 3: call him? Would it be desperate? And Jim Henry, who's

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Speaker 3: this great like old school guy and the Yankees' front

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Speaker 3: office with like a gravelly voice and everything, he gets

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Speaker 3: some Boone's face and he's like.

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Speaker 4: Of course you want to call him. You're the fucking

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Speaker 4: manager of the goddamn Yankees. You got gonna call him.

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Speaker 4: AND's like okay.

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Speaker 3: So he goes over that where the kind of like

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Speaker 3: bath or the elevators are I think and he calls

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Speaker 3: Judge and he's like, you gotta talk to Hall. We

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Speaker 3: gotta get this done. And soon after, you know, now

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Speaker 3: everyone's talking Cashman, the agent, Judge boone Hell and finally,

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Speaker 3: how I Think says like, what do you need?

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Speaker 4: What's it gonna take?

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Speaker 3: And Judge is like, I want to be here, but

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Speaker 3: you gotta go that ninth year and then and they

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Speaker 3: hammered it out. It was done soon after that, but

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00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:54,440
Speaker 3: the Yankees really felt him slipping through their fingers for

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Speaker 3: that that day or two that was scary.

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Speaker 2: I remember that day. I was watching this documentary honestly

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Speaker 2: about journalistic restraint. It's called one PM, and it's about

382
00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:08,120
Speaker 2: when John F. Kennedy was assassinated. They had all these sources,

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Speaker 2: like they had the doctors, they had the priests, they

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Speaker 2: had witnesses who saw his head come apart, and nobody

385
00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:17,399
Speaker 2: would report it until the White House officially said, you know,

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Speaker 2: they had the press briefing, and yet we get Arson

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Speaker 2: Judge is headed to the San Francisco Giants, and I thought, wow,

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Speaker 2: not that those two things are on the same level,

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Speaker 2: but the dichotomy of restraint struck me with you know, obviously.

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Speaker 1: It was not official.

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Speaker 2: You know we're gonna put it out there and spell

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Speaker 2: it wrong, so that I mean to me that day,

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Speaker 2: I'll never forget that as long as I live.

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Speaker 1: But was this book still.

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Speaker 4: Being written, Yeah, A lot of people won't.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Was this book still being written when Soda was negotiating

398
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Speaker 2: that or that trade was happening, or was it done

399
00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:47,879
Speaker 2: at that point?

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Speaker 3: I was just finishing up. I was able to include

401
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Speaker 3: the scene at the GM meetings in November when Cashman

402
00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:59,439
Speaker 3: went off and ended up on the back pages and

403
00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:03,800
Speaker 3: everywhere online by saying we may not be best in class,

404
00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:05,760
Speaker 3: but I think we're pretty fucking good, and and that

405
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Speaker 3: kind of defiant rant that he went on. I was

406
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Speaker 3: able to include that, But I think our final edit

407
00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:15,720
Speaker 3: was like late winner. So no, the Sodo trade, I

408
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,440
Speaker 3: was able to reference it real quick, but it kind

409
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Speaker 3: of I kind of closed with the Judge deal and

410
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Speaker 3: then like the whole scene about how that Judge stuff

411
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Speaker 3: went down, like I was just talent talent you, Derek,

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Speaker 3: and then Cashman's likely successor at the very end of

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Speaker 3: the book, and how long might Cashman do it and

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Speaker 3: who might take over for him is kind of how

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Speaker 3: I end. So I just was able to touch on the

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Speaker 3: Sodo thing real.

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Speaker 2: Quick at so I do want to actually get to that.

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Speaker 2: Who might take over for him? But just my final

419
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Speaker 2: topic here we got a couple of minutes. If Brian

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Speaker 2: Cashman were to retire today and just hang it up,

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Speaker 2: what do you think his legacy would be? Would it

422
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Speaker 2: be more, you know, the Hall of Fame manager, who

423
00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:58,000
Speaker 2: are gm who who got four rings? Or would it

424
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Speaker 2: be the guy who oversaw one of the long droughts

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Speaker 2: between World Series and franchise history? Obviously both of those

426
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:06,360
Speaker 2: come with his legacy. You know, OJ was a great

427
00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:08,159
Speaker 2: running back, but he also killed his wife, Like, how

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Speaker 2: do you remember these guys?

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Speaker 1: I want to that is a.

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Speaker 3: Rough analogy in the World Series in fourteen years?

431
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Speaker 4: Wow, Yankees take your point?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say, you know, I think that, uh,

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Speaker 3: if they don't win again in his tenure, that's part

434
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Speaker 3: of what's discussed, But I don't think it's going to

435
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Speaker 3: be the main point because they never had a losing

436
00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:34,320
Speaker 3: season in that time, and the game hasn't had any

437
00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:36,879
Speaker 3: repeat champions obviously since the Yankees in two thousand and

438
00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:38,679
Speaker 3: There's all these other things we could say, but how

439
00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:40,600
Speaker 3: much harder it is now? To win and get to

440
00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:42,879
Speaker 3: the World Series. That's not to say they're not just

441
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:45,800
Speaker 3: as hungry for it and desperate for it as their fans. Internally,

442
00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:47,680
Speaker 3: they really are like, oh my god, we need to

443
00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:50,000
Speaker 3: get back already. Hence some of these move win now,

444
00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:52,040
Speaker 3: moves they made prior to this season.

445
00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:54,479
Speaker 4: We want to talk about how I'll remember.

446
00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,920
Speaker 3: I'll say that I Billy Bean and Brian Sabian, two

447
00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,720
Speaker 3: very different GMS, both to me in separate interviews that

448
00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:04,720
Speaker 3: Cashman is the greatest executive in the entire history of

449
00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,400
Speaker 3: the sport. And I said really, and.

450
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,240
Speaker 4: Bean said yeah, I'll tell you what. He's the Tom

451
00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:11,560
Speaker 4: Brady of executives.

452
00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:14,480
Speaker 3: And then I said to Bean, who is the most

453
00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:17,000
Speaker 3: famous executive? Probably because no one else has been played

454
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,439
Speaker 3: by Brad Pitt in the movie, right, no other GM.

455
00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:21,760
Speaker 3: And I said to Bean, do you think Cashman is

456
00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:24,480
Speaker 3: a Hall of Famer? And Bean started yelling at me.

457
00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:27,359
Speaker 3: He said, no offense, But I think that's a ridiculous question.

458
00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:29,720
Speaker 3: Every time you say that man's name is if you

459
00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:32,760
Speaker 3: were talking about Max Schurzer, future Hall of Famer, should

460
00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:34,359
Speaker 3: be the first thing out of your mouth before you

461
00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:34,960
Speaker 3: say his name.

462
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:38,600
Speaker 4: And the thing that absolutely amazes.

463
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:41,440
Speaker 3: His peers and competitors, is the idea that they that thing,

464
00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:43,280
Speaker 3: that they never had a losing season. I know Yankee

465
00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:45,720
Speaker 3: fans can get sick of hearing that because it might

466
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:50,359
Speaker 3: feel like a consolation prize. But when you're trying to

467
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:54,680
Speaker 3: run a major League baseball team, you don't win every year,

468
00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:57,760
Speaker 3: you just don't. You look at the Orioles, they got

469
00:21:57,760 --> 00:21:59,680
Speaker 3: to where they are right now by taking five years

470
00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:02,840
Speaker 3: off tanking for draft picks. The Astros and the Cubs

471
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:05,359
Speaker 3: did it before them. Teams that don't tank still have

472
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:09,520
Speaker 3: up years and down years. Cashman never does, and his

473
00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:12,320
Speaker 3: group somehow manages to put a winning team on the

474
00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:17,520
Speaker 3: field for generations in a row. And that's why he

475
00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:21,480
Speaker 3: will be an executive, one of the small handful of

476
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:24,440
Speaker 3: executives who's instantly inaugurated into the Hall of Fame when

477
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:25,160
Speaker 3: he's retired.

478
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:28,400
Speaker 2: When they make Moneyball to New York Buogoloo, I want

479
00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:33,480
Speaker 2: either JK. Simmons or Paul Giamatti in the Brian Cashman role.

480
00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:35,760
Speaker 2: Those are two guys that I think could pull it off.

481
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,000
Speaker 2: They don't necessarily look at one hundred percent like him,

482
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:39,800
Speaker 2: but I could see either one of those guys crushing

483
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:40,200
Speaker 2: that role.

484
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:42,280
Speaker 4: I like Giamatti, that's a good one.

485
00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:46,240
Speaker 3: And they used to call him George Costanza in the

486
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:49,000
Speaker 3: nineties because he had the round glasses and stein Runner

487
00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:50,919
Speaker 3: liked him in an angry kind of way. So I

488
00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:53,200
Speaker 3: wonder if Jason. I don't know if Jason Alexander's got

489
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:55,480
Speaker 3: the chops. Giamatti is the great, one of the great

490
00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:58,520
Speaker 3: actors of our time, but that's another one that he's

491
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:02,400
Speaker 3: been compared to, probably not his favorite comparison to Castanza.

492
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:05,399
Speaker 2: But yeah, well, I don't know if JK. Simmons is

493
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:07,360
Speaker 2: understated enough, but I'm sure he could pull it off.

494
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 2: But you mentioned Cashman's replacement. Final thought, who do you

495
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:12,080
Speaker 2: predict will be his replacement.

496
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,639
Speaker 3: If it stays on the course that it's on right now.

497
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:20,399
Speaker 3: Would be Kevin Reese most likely, who fits that model

498
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:20,680
Speaker 3: that I.

499
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:22,840
Speaker 4: Was telling you about before. Derek in the front office.

500
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:24,679
Speaker 3: They want guys who can look at things through a

501
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:28,000
Speaker 3: playing scouting lens and through an analytical lens, and they've

502
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:30,840
Speaker 3: had Geen Michael tim niring these guys who have played

503
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:35,000
Speaker 3: but can also do that modern thing, and they see

504
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:39,240
Speaker 3: Reese is in that mold. Briefly, outfielder for the Yankees

505
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,760
Speaker 3: and a scout director of pro scouting. Now he's running

506
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:46,120
Speaker 3: player development for them, and they're very happy with their

507
00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:49,520
Speaker 3: player development operation, particularly the pitching, but overall they like

508
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:50,080
Speaker 3: where they're at.

509
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:50,919
Speaker 4: In the farm.

510
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:54,159
Speaker 3: And Reese is close with the Steinbrenner a Swindle family.

511
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:58,360
Speaker 3: Steven Swindle is stein Hall's nephew who could one day

512
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 3: if become managing partner. Cashman respects Reese. The Steinbrunners respect Reese.

513
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:08,920
Speaker 3: So if things are going well and they're in a

514
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:12,040
Speaker 3: position to have a succession plan and not blow things up,

515
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:14,400
Speaker 3: that that looks like a way.

516
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:14,760
Speaker 4: That it would go.

517
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:19,240
Speaker 1: And the backup plan me you number two.

518
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:20,679
Speaker 4: It's a distance having.

519
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:24,399
Speaker 2: Annie Martino. Thanks, I can't wait to read it. I

520
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:27,000
Speaker 2: was telling you before we got live that Yankees don't

521
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,720
Speaker 2: play on Memorial Day this year. So my plan is

522
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:31,720
Speaker 2: to go to the beach and listen to a book

523
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:33,880
Speaker 2: with my wife, and that's going to be the book.

524
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,040
Speaker 2: I just picked it up on audio platforms. It's available

525
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:39,800
Speaker 2: wherever books are sold. Andy Martinez appreciate it. Thank you

526
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:40,240
Speaker 2: so much.

527
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:41,760
Speaker 4: Thank you for having me.

528
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,880
Speaker 1: Derek. All right, guys, we'll see it next, Okay.

529
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 3: Put b