Speaker 1: Of the Law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies. These episodes are based on These are our stories.
Speaker 2: Done done, Yay, that's messed up. In sv podcast, I'm
Speaker 2: Liza Trigger and I'm Kara Klank and we're here hosting
Speaker 2: episode recaps of SVU true crime deep dives and.
Speaker 1: Interviews with actors and other esteemed guests.
Speaker 2: Wait, Kara, what did you see the Minions movie? You
Speaker 2: always see every kid's movie or babkay. Well, because I
Speaker 2: just got a text from a friend going the Minions
Speaker 2: movie is incredible, by the way, and I was, I'm like,
Speaker 2: I will got to ask.
Speaker 3: I got that was.
Speaker 1: Great actually, like because it's like all about movies. It's
Speaker 1: like they the Minions get to like nineteen forties or
Speaker 1: fifties Hollywood, and that's like what it's about. Or maybe no,
Speaker 1: probably earlier earlier, because at one point they're using like
Speaker 1: a real like they're silent, but yeah, like early Hollywood
Speaker 1: and one of the minions just really wants to make movies.
Speaker 1: And then it also incorporates Call of Cthulhu, which is
Speaker 1: a game that Jared plays. Yes, and there's this little
Speaker 1: Cthulhu monster name Goomi that is voiced by Trey Parker,
Speaker 1: I think from South Park.
Speaker 3: And he does such a good.
Speaker 1: Job voicing this little guy because he sounds to me
Speaker 1: like Jerry Blank from Strangers with Candy, which you know
Speaker 1: is Amy Sedaris, and it made me laugh so much. Obviously,
Speaker 1: I'm like there with my two kids. They don't know
Speaker 1: what Strangers with Candy is, But like, I loved it.
Speaker 1: Minions versus monsters go to it. Everybody catch us. It's like,
Speaker 1: what do I see? First session?
Speaker 2: Honestly, minions, Like, I feel like you're gonna obsession.
Speaker 1: And I say that as somebody he was not laid
Speaker 1: an eye on a frame of it, but I think
Speaker 1: you're gonna love it. I got an invite to day
Speaker 1: to go, but I just would wrap. We were working
Speaker 1: and then I I'd rather nap. I have spots, I
Speaker 1: have a birthday party. I mean, I'm squeezing it all in. Look,
Speaker 1: I think that's really really smart. You need to rest,
Speaker 1: but I'm gonna miss it, like scared. I know, I
Speaker 1: you know, I missed fucking stop that train. And I
Speaker 1: was sad because that's a movie that I wanted to
Speaker 1: see in the theater, like surrounded by other crazy people.
Speaker 1: So I wanted to see that, but sadly I missed
Speaker 1: it because I was like in the Grand Canyon or whatever.
Speaker 2: But yeah, but I've bess. I really love Robert Pattinson.
Speaker 2: I mean obviously watched Twilight on the patrenot. We've talked
Speaker 2: about it whatever. Like he's won me over in a
Speaker 2: way that I could never see coming. Interesting. His press
Speaker 2: is just so funny. He's so silly, like I don't know,
Speaker 2: he just seems really cool. He's yeah cool, you don't hatch.
Speaker 1: To make a friend of No, he's attached to make
Speaker 1: a movie with if not a friend of mine wrote
Speaker 1: And I'm like really hoping it happens because it's really
Speaker 1: good and I think he'll be really awesome in it.
Speaker 2: No, it seems like he's really talented. It's like, so
Speaker 2: I saw a meme that was like, it's who Timothy
Speaker 2: Shalla may thinks he is? Yes, you know, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: we really turned on Timothy. He's having his Anne Hathaway moment.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, but he's doing fucking Calshie commercials. It's just
Speaker 2: like he is, Yeah, your your bro is showing and
Speaker 2: we don't like it. Ew that's a cool saying, right,
Speaker 2: your bro is showing. Oh that's been so fun with
Speaker 2: my backgammon lessons. Is like there's all these little sayings
Speaker 2: and I really like them, like what like clear from
Speaker 2: the rear, and then the other one like when you
Speaker 2: take like a peg, you put it on the middle bar,
Speaker 2: and so that's called dancing on the bar. Okay, So
Speaker 2: I like that, Like those are the only two I
Speaker 2: could think of right now.
Speaker 3: Oh, when in dowt knockout, When in doubt knockout? Okay?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, that's that's helping me. Let's attack, build
Speaker 2: your pride, Like yeah, there's just like all these things amazing.
Speaker 3: I like clear from the rear.
Speaker 1: That sounds like it could be applied to some other things.
Speaker 3: I think of what right now? But yeah, oh god,
Speaker 3: backam it on my mind.
Speaker 2: But there's a tournament that guy told me in January
Speaker 2: in New Jersey, So I think I'm going to try
Speaker 2: to train for that as well and go without like
Speaker 2: just go to play and see domestic and they'll bring
Speaker 2: me another tournament and league in September, like I might
Speaker 2: dive in.
Speaker 3: We'll see, we'll see, or it could be a flash
Speaker 3: in the pace pants. Yeah is that not a sing?
Speaker 3: It's flash in the pan?
Speaker 1: But I love the pants and it should absolutely stay.
Speaker 3: Babe, It'll just be a flash in the pants. Oh
Speaker 3: my god, I'm dying. I love it. Oh so funny.
Speaker 2: Wait, there's a guy getting evicted right now in New
Speaker 2: York because he had too many books and the landlord
Speaker 2: and victim like used hoarding laws to.
Speaker 3: Get him out.
Speaker 2: Oh no, I didn't read the article, but has been
Speaker 2: sent to me by a few people.
Speaker 1: Wait, he has too many what books? Oh god, I'll
Speaker 1: send it to Jared. I make him do one in
Speaker 1: one out. I'm like, if you're gonna get like fine
Speaker 1: new books, you gotta like you got it. You gotta
Speaker 1: just we gotta get rid of some of these that
Speaker 1: you don't touch.
Speaker 2: That's one of the first times I met you was
Speaker 2: or we hung out, was in your West Hollywood apartment.
Speaker 2: You were moving and you were forcing him to get
Speaker 2: rid of books and drop them off and those boxes.
Speaker 3: And it's like, for as.
Speaker 2: Long as I've known you, guys, there's always just been
Speaker 2: like a kind of a pressure to get books out
Speaker 2: of the homes. Yep, yep, there's constantly a box that's
Speaker 2: half full, where I'm like, what are we gonna fill
Speaker 2: this bad boy up and get it off? Because he
Speaker 2: really I'm I'm gonna post a photo of just his
Speaker 2: bedside table at my mother's house right now. There are
Speaker 2: probably twenty books on his bedside table on our summer
Speaker 2: trip at my mom.
Speaker 3: Bet you'll read them all, you know, think.
Speaker 1: So he probably probably probably, but but no, no, he'll
Speaker 1: probably read half. I think he just likes to bounce around.
Speaker 1: He likes to have options. It's a lot of books
Speaker 1: to travel with. It's a lot of books. But we
Speaker 1: did I guess seeah, we had more space.
Speaker 3: Okay, So I don't know if I already talked.
Speaker 2: About this or in the time machine, I apologize, but
Speaker 2: you know we talked about like Hudson Williams spat kind
Speaker 2: of with the paparazzi. Yes, and I saw something come
Speaker 2: up in my feed where he was trying to light
Speaker 2: something on fire like one of the pictures. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: So so this is the thing like he likes to
Speaker 2: post and so then I think like he he gave
Speaker 2: it to us because thank god. But I think it
Speaker 2: was also like we don't need the paparazzi. I will
Speaker 2: share my life with you.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So he ended up posting like an eighteen photo fucking
Speaker 2: main grid post of like him and his girlfriend and
Speaker 2: friends and art museums. I love that he loves art
Speaker 2: museums obviously, and just like all fun stuff and like
Speaker 2: out at bars. And then he posted a ton of
Speaker 2: stories and then he posted this, and he compared the
Speaker 2: pop we have to post this on the Instagram. But
Speaker 2: he posted this, and that's the guy who tried to
Speaker 2: get the autograph.
Speaker 3: It's Mode baby.
Speaker 1: And I just like, oh, that's freaking what's his name
Speaker 1: from Dispicable Me?
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's why I'm showing it because.
Speaker 2: His name is it not the main Is it not
Speaker 2: Steve Krell's character as a kid.
Speaker 3: No, that's not Grue.
Speaker 1: That's the bad guy who tries to seal the pyramids
Speaker 1: hold on.
Speaker 2: So yeah, so it's like and the paparazzi guy does
Speaker 2: look like him Vector, it's Vector, yeah, and the hairdoo's
Speaker 2: the same. Like, so Hudson posts it, I'll text it
Speaker 2: to you now, so we'll post it on the Instagram. Yeah,
Speaker 2: But so he immediately like posted roasting this guy to
Speaker 2: his like four point five million followers, and I'm just like, yeah,
Speaker 2: like let us fuck it, like let him live.
Speaker 3: He will share with us, I know.
Speaker 1: But that guy's job is to get money, right, like
Speaker 1: for his website.
Speaker 3: Whatever. Fucking yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean I've said it before on this podcast, like
Speaker 1: the paparazzi people that I've had to be around have
Speaker 1: been some of the.
Speaker 3: Most vile people I've I've ever shared space with.
Speaker 2: Well, I was watching one thing and it was like
Speaker 2: a paparazzi that actually was like respectful and kind. And
Speaker 2: now he has such close relationships with all these celebs
Speaker 2: that they call him. Yeah, and because he's been respectful,
Speaker 2: it's like nothing, but I don't.
Speaker 3: Know, I haven't that's probably the way to do it.
Speaker 1: And then there's these other guys that are just like
Speaker 1: disgusting that sit in these pits going nobody knows who
Speaker 1: you are, move on, and they like they disrespect like
Speaker 1: people that are young.
Speaker 3: Stars on the rise. Yeah, and people are just so rude.
Speaker 2: And then yeah, whatever, but he's posting from like his
Speaker 2: trip to Greece and like his like I don't know,
Speaker 2: like he shares, so it's like there's no reason to stock.
Speaker 3: Him actually yeah, yeah, yeah, but whatever, and also probably.
Speaker 1: So much it doesn't really make it probably makes the
Speaker 1: photos less valuable.
Speaker 2: So yeah, and he does wear the same shirts a lot.
Speaker 2: He wears like one T shirt all the time.
Speaker 1: Good for him, I like too, Yeah, good for him.
Speaker 3: I'm trying to think.
Speaker 2: Because Daniel Radcliffe did that, I think it was him
Speaker 2: where like he just wore the exact same outfit every
Speaker 2: time he went anywhere, so like they just became less
Speaker 2: valuable because he looks the same and everything.
Speaker 1: Oh that's funny. Yeah, and it's like, what are we
Speaker 1: getting speaking of Daniel Radcliffe. I just when I was
Speaker 1: at the shore, we watched a little bit of The
Speaker 1: Fall and Rise of Reggie Dinkins, which Daniel Radcliffe is in,
Speaker 1: and it's funny and Bobby moynihan, it's funny. It's very
Speaker 1: thirty Rock, which is like a show I loved, So
Speaker 1: it's like very thirty rock.
Speaker 3: Also, do you know what we watched that I liked?
Speaker 1: Have you ever watched Seth Myers do his day drinking
Speaker 1: thing with people where they get day drunk.
Speaker 3: Of course you know him on YouTube and you know
Speaker 3: I'm watching stuff. Do you like them? I love them? Oh, okay, okay.
Speaker 2: That's where we got the Viralna Carpenter clip where he goes, oh, right,
Speaker 2: were you on SVU and she goes a victim yeah,
Speaker 2: and he goes of what and she goes of what,
Speaker 2: come on? Well, the best one is Rihanna Like that's
Speaker 2: the best one. Oh, I gotta watch it.
Speaker 1: We watched the Paul Rudd, which, you know what, I
Speaker 1: don't believe in Hall passes, but Paul Rudd's like Jared
Speaker 1: when he asks me for a name, I'm like, it's
Speaker 1: Paul Rudd. And then we watched the Julia Louis Dreyfus,
Speaker 1: which I loved because at the beginning she has no
Speaker 1: respect for him.
Speaker 3: At the beginning, she has and she has no respect
Speaker 3: and she's like this is such a dumb idea.
Speaker 1: But then she does have a lot of fun like
Speaker 1: as it goes on, and I loved that. I loved
Speaker 1: how they were. It's so funny. I'm sorry, watching famous
Speaker 1: people get drunk is funny.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I like that seth probably goes like he
Speaker 2: has to tell his wife, like, listen, today's my drunk
Speaker 2: day at work.
Speaker 3: Yeah, block it out.
Speaker 2: I can't help Yeah, sincerely, Oh my God, Well it's
Speaker 2: kind of rude because they're in our like orbit, I guess,
Speaker 2: but they are famous. I don't know, but the Tom
Speaker 2: Sigora and Christina Prasinski divorcing after nineteen years. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: YouTube does not like him. I mean they're just like
Speaker 2: finding all these clips where he's like saying nasty shit
Speaker 2: and you know their podcast like he's an irreverent person,
Speaker 2: but it does, you know. But it's like her talking
Speaker 2: about how they're touring so much, like he tours so much,
Speaker 2: and you know, it's like your kids are really small,
Speaker 2: and he just goes, do you like your fucking life?
Speaker 2: And it's like I bet if you did half the
Speaker 2: dates you'd still be really rik. Yeah, but like for sure.
Speaker 1: Showed me his poster when like a while ago, and
Speaker 1: I was like, that's a lot of dates for a
Speaker 1: guy with two kids. Like I remember thinking that, like
Speaker 1: especially when your wife also does this job.
Speaker 2: You know, no, like Nikki Glee is there toer posters
Speaker 2: or that like aggressive, but it's like she's a single girl.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, like on this on the Lamb,
Speaker 2: it's like different, but who knows. I don't want to
Speaker 2: talk about like a guest business but they are famous people.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was very like I was. I thought about
Speaker 1: you when I heard about that. I was like, I
Speaker 1: wonder if she has scoop.
Speaker 2: I don't have scoop. They don't really talk to me
Speaker 2: in any capacity, but but I will say, oh, I
Speaker 2: ring a guy's gal never pays.
Speaker 3: I'll tell you that much.
Speaker 1: Speaking of Austin comedians, I was talking with my friends
Speaker 1: about like they were like talking about the Kevin Hart
Speaker 1: roast and stuff like that, and they were like, those
Speaker 1: guys seemed gross and I go, oh, yeah, like Tony Hinchcliff.
Speaker 3: These like guys or whatever.
Speaker 1: And I was like, you know, I watched I saw
Speaker 1: Yaminika and Jess Curson do this little podcast bit where
Speaker 1: they were like, he's always been nice to me. They
Speaker 1: both said he's always been nice to me. But Yaminika
Speaker 1: was like, but when you are the king of the
Speaker 1: white in Cell boys, you need to like own that
Speaker 1: and say something and you don't. And my friend, who
Speaker 1: is very involved in like the back basketball world, was
Speaker 1: like that you're describing Caitlyn Clark right now. She's like,
Speaker 1: that's what people get mad at Caitlyn Clark about. Because
Speaker 1: all her fans are super racist. Not all, many of
Speaker 1: her fans are racists, say really awful shit, and she
Speaker 1: never speaks up about it. Yeah, I didn't know that,
Speaker 1: and I was like, that's interesting. I didn't know that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so you know, wants that money? I get I want.
Speaker 3: I don't know. I have an idea because the.
Speaker 1: Nike mad at you if you say, hey, guys, stop
Speaker 1: calling my teammates racist names or my opponents, Like, that's
Speaker 1: not the spirit of.
Speaker 2: Maybe she's maybe she's a racist. Sooner she's friends with
Speaker 2: the Cunningham Girls. That's her name, right, Sophie.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Is that the girl with the pointed finger, the blonde
Speaker 2: one like she's they call her Maga Barbie.
Speaker 3: Oh I know. I don't know who that one is.
Speaker 3: I don't Yeah, I don't know about any of it.
Speaker 2: I just got you know, anytime I kind of engage
Speaker 2: on Instagram, I always regret it because I forget people
Speaker 2: are so stupid. But I just like people that believe
Speaker 2: that their partners should not have friends of the opposite
Speaker 2: sex are.
Speaker 5: Just like.
Speaker 3: You must they must be stupid, right.
Speaker 2: Like, because I said something, I go, I go to me,
Speaker 2: it's a red flag I go, because it's going backwards. Basically,
Speaker 2: like we got into a tiff at the bar with
Speaker 2: one of our guy friends because he's friends with a
Speaker 2: guy that we both hate, me and my friend and
Speaker 2: like he's.
Speaker 3: Like, that's my friend, stop talking ablah blah blah.
Speaker 2: And I had to tell my friend, I go, at
Speaker 2: the end of the day, bro, you have tons of
Speaker 2: female friends and he has zero. And that's something to
Speaker 2: think about. Like you are with a man who is
Speaker 2: so many women hate and you ignoring that?
Speaker 3: Is it weird?
Speaker 2: Yeah, when you're actually here with six women who are
Speaker 2: all telling you he sucks.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So and we were all drinking, there was a lord whatever,
Speaker 2: so like that is a conversation that happened. Oh one
Speaker 2: one of the girls there was a listener, but I
Speaker 2: think sure left her flight.
Speaker 3: What up canvas?
Speaker 2: But anyway, so in this I go to me, it's
Speaker 2: actually a red flag. I'm like, I would I don't
Speaker 2: think I would ever entertain the idea of.
Speaker 3: Being with a man who had no female friends.
Speaker 2: And so I wrote that on this thing that was
Speaker 2: like a clip from some show and this guy being
Speaker 2: like you better. This woman's like I've had a guy
Speaker 2: best friend for like decades, and he goes, well, you're
Speaker 2: not gonna be able to see him unless I'm there,
Speaker 2: Like that doesn't work for me. And people are in
Speaker 2: the art, you know, comments back and forth, and I
Speaker 2: just feel like, to me, it's a red flag. And
Speaker 2: then of course a man's like, well, you're project, you know,
Speaker 2: in like using complicated language for no reason, you know
Speaker 2: about how like because I have male friends. Women who
Speaker 2: have male friends are always trying to excuse it, but
Speaker 2: it's and I go, no, no, no, it's not about me.
Speaker 3: I just I think it's a red flag.
Speaker 2: If a man doesn't like, if you do not see
Speaker 2: women as people and can interact with women outside of
Speaker 2: a romantic sexual.
Speaker 3: Setting, that is scary to me.
Speaker 2: That means women do not feel safe around you and
Speaker 2: you do not respect women outside of fucking like to me,
Speaker 2: that's gross that.
Speaker 3: You only see women as romantic objects or not.
Speaker 2: And most of the people that are arguing me and
Speaker 2: someone's like, well, do your parents have friends of the
Speaker 2: opposite sex? I go, there's nothing I want less in
Speaker 2: the world in a relationship like my parents, Like are
Speaker 2: you out of your mind? Like why would I use them?
Speaker 2: These fucking eighty year olds like my mom has friends.
Speaker 2: She didn't have running water till she was forty five.
Speaker 2: I don't know if I look at her for like
Speaker 2: the foundations of how I'd like to live outside of
Speaker 2: like maybe you know, generosity and hosting, but like it's yeah,
Speaker 2: and she goes, yeah, but tell me, And I'm like,
Speaker 2: my mom has no friends, men or women. She's an
Speaker 2: antisocial person. But it's like, why are you addicted to
Speaker 2: what my friends are doing? Like, well, my parents are doing.
Speaker 2: And then some young girl goes, I don't care. I
Speaker 2: don't have male friends my husband. It's not sad, you're
Speaker 2: I go, no, it is misogynistic, Like I think you're
Speaker 2: all too stupid to see it. But it is a
Speaker 2: hell I'm willing to die And maybe if I do,
Speaker 2: subway takes like that could be so weird.
Speaker 1: I think it's so weird to say there is not
Speaker 1: a single person in the fifty percent of the world
Speaker 1: that is the opposite gender from mine that I would
Speaker 1: be And.
Speaker 2: I wrote like gay people exist, and the girl goes, yeah,
Speaker 2: And if I was a lesbian, my my wife would
Speaker 2: not have any female friends. And I'm like, lol, Elle, oh,
Speaker 2: like you clearly don't know gay people, like you clearly
Speaker 2: don't have gay people in your life.
Speaker 3: You don't if that's what you're saying, you know what
Speaker 3: I mean.
Speaker 2: And then it's a lot of like dudes mostly, but
Speaker 2: these girls are just arguing so hard, and I'm like, well,
Speaker 2: you also don't see your humanity, like you're lost in
Speaker 2: something too, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, but being a
Speaker 2: guy's gal it never works out. It works out for
Speaker 2: a while. You might make bank, you might make money,
Speaker 2: but at the end of the day, these men will
Speaker 2: never pick you when you put them on top of
Speaker 2: like above women, and it's it's strange.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I also wrote in the comments, I'm like, I'm friends
Speaker 2: with married couples where I hang out with both sexes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, separately and together.
Speaker 1: As somebody I call his horror wife, like he has
Speaker 1: like a girl he only goes to the movies with
Speaker 1: all the time, and they sit in the dark together
Speaker 1: and they're not sexually attracted to each other.
Speaker 2: I know, I just I feel sex I wrote, So
Speaker 2: I go, yeah, I think it's sad, but you do
Speaker 2: you girl, And she's like, it's not sad and you're
Speaker 2: not married, so it doesn't even matter.
Speaker 3: I'm like, Okay, out Okay, yeah, you shouldn't really be speaking.
Speaker 2: And I go and I don't think I would ever
Speaker 2: be with someone that said you can't do this, Like
Speaker 2: that's crazy. Yeah, Like I don't hang out with this
Speaker 2: kind of person unless I'm there. She goes, if he
Speaker 2: needs to laugh with a woman, I'm here. I'm like, okay, okay, ew,
Speaker 2: this is like so much hate. It is it is,
Speaker 2: and of course I'm getting tat and it's like I
Speaker 2: actually don't want to be a part of this anymore.
Speaker 2: But it was just like to something I care about,
Speaker 2: to pass up a comment, I.
Speaker 1: Guess, oh yeah, you got to dip a toe back
Speaker 1: into that hate pool every once in a while.
Speaker 3: I know it. I also want to give a shout out.
Speaker 2: So I buy a lot of products from Unscented Company,
Speaker 2: and my pack there was like a thief ripped apart boxes,
Speaker 2: stole a bunch of stuff, and I buy giant jugs
Speaker 2: and refills. So it's like I buy a lot and
Speaker 2: I messaged them, thinking they would just give me a
Speaker 2: coupon code or something, and they fully sent me a
Speaker 2: whole new package.
Speaker 3: Oh that's nice, I thought so too.
Speaker 2: I emailed them and I haven't been good about my
Speaker 2: email at summertime or wherever. But and so I started
Speaker 2: a new order and I'm like, oh, I should just
Speaker 2: see if they emailed. Maybe they sent me a coupon
Speaker 2: code and they're like, hey, new package coming, here's the
Speaker 2: tracking number.
Speaker 3: Sorry about your the theft. And I just couldn't believe it.
Speaker 2: Maybe they saw that I've been like a loyal big
Speaker 2: jug customer for a while.
Speaker 3: Because you're a big Juggie.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I was like so happy, So shout out
Speaker 2: unscented company.
Speaker 3: Great great, uh great customer service.
Speaker 1: All right, let's get started, shall we we have a
Speaker 1: great episode.
Speaker 2: We're any any final you know, we're in the We're
Speaker 2: in the time machine. This is their final words for
Speaker 2: a few weeks. You don't want to see anything. We're
Speaker 2: in the time machine. I mean, guys, enjoy summer teachers.
Speaker 2: Send us your wish lists. I'm still posting them. And Lisa,
Speaker 2: I cannot wait to be out of the time machine.
Speaker 2: And you're telling me how Monaco goes. I really can't wait.
Speaker 1: Stay tuned, everyone, And yeah, we are doing extra stuff
Speaker 1: over on Patreon Patreon dot com slash that's messed up,
Speaker 1: go join us over there. We've got a couple of
Speaker 1: different tier levels you can join. We've got merch up
Speaker 1: that's messed up live dot com and also takes you
Speaker 1: to Lisa's tour dates. Also promo codes, et cetera, et cetra.
Speaker 1: Everything you need as a Tommy in your little Tommy toolkit.
Speaker 3: But let's get started. On today's EPP.
Speaker 2: We're gonna be doing an episode called Child's Welfare, Season thirteen,
Speaker 2: episode sixteen from oh air date February twenty ninth, twenty twelve.
Speaker 2: A Leapier, Leapier February Well leapier episode. Yeah that Juel
Speaker 2: Kimmooster is a leapier baby. Yeah, my most famous leapier
Speaker 2: baby that I know of. I'm sure there's others. Okay,
Speaker 2: Child's Welfare. Obviously this isn't gonna be good. So we
Speaker 2: hear children crying, also deep straight breathing basement vibes. There's
Speaker 2: rock walls like it's an ancient castle. It's pretty scary
Speaker 2: that we see like a garbage bag, a door, there's
Speaker 2: an outside lock. A child is screaming. It hurts. There's
Speaker 2: more screaming that we see. Someone is tied to a
Speaker 2: bed screaming and she and she's giving birth.
Speaker 3: So someone is giving birth.
Speaker 2: We don't really see her face, and she wants it
Speaker 2: to stop, but she has to keep pushing. And then
Speaker 2: we see there's a toilet just in the side of
Speaker 2: the room. So someone is being held in a room
Speaker 2: giving birth with a toilet in a like a cell rock.
Speaker 2: It's a nightmare. It's honestly what nightmares are made of.
Speaker 2: And it's what I am haunted by day in a.
Speaker 1: Day out, I would say, And not the first time
Speaker 1: we've honestly talked about this on the podcast.
Speaker 3: No No, but the fear is so huge. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just because you know no one's.
Speaker 3: Looking for you. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So it cuts to so that it cuts to an
Speaker 2: amazing character actress, and in character actress fashion, we don't
Speaker 2: know her name, we don't know her, but she is
Speaker 2: the woman from Aaron Brockovich with two wrong feet and
Speaker 2: ugly shoes and she's in Seinfeld. She's the one that
Speaker 2: heckles Jerry Elaine's coworker, where she's like boo hiss, and
Speaker 2: then you know, Jerry goes to the office to heckle her.
Speaker 2: So she has red hair. We're obsessed with her. She's
Speaker 2: like so severe. This woman like, yeah, yeah, she's an
Speaker 2: amazing monologue where Julia Roberts gets to go and what
Speaker 2: number do you need?
Speaker 3: Do you need to know their diseases too? You know?
Speaker 3: So it's pretty incredible. So it's her.
Speaker 2: I think she's always played this kind of character, and
Speaker 2: she's back. Then we cut to Simon and his wife
Speaker 2: and obviously it's not gonna be good news because it's
Speaker 2: Simon's involved, and he has the Benson curse, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean, Like nothing can.
Speaker 3: Go right in your life.
Speaker 2: So the redhead, she's from Child Protective Services and she's
Speaker 2: talking to one of their kids and they're in the
Speaker 2: background watching and they're getting judged heavily, and it's just
Speaker 2: like the kid is super cute, and every time the
Speaker 2: parents talk, this woman gets mad, but like she's come
Speaker 2: in to be pissed, you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 2: it's really crazy. Kids have bruises. Like everything's fine. The
Speaker 2: younger baby starts crying. Again everything is normal, but she's
Speaker 2: being cold as hell and like starts to leave. Simon
Speaker 2: looks worried. And now we're back to the illegal birth
Speaker 2: and that woman's name.
Speaker 1: Is woman's name is von cox Van I've never heard
Speaker 1: that name before van.
Speaker 2: So now from via we cut to the illegal birth,
Speaker 2: and it's like, why don't we try focusing god cases
Speaker 2: like this, like who's this? Like who's getting locked up?
Speaker 2: Like why are you bothering fucking Simon and his wife.
Speaker 2: So the person delivering the baby goes, oh, it's a boy. No,
Speaker 2: and then we hear the mob plead like please don't
Speaker 2: take him, Please don't take him, and they take him.
Speaker 2: So she screams no, come back, and then they and
Speaker 2: now it cuts to Simon kids being taken away and
Speaker 2: they're pleading it's an emergency intervention, Like what the hell?
Speaker 3: Like this sucks? Like what emergency? Like this is the thing?
Speaker 2: Like what was so bad in that apartment that ripping
Speaker 2: the kids out of that house is safer and better
Speaker 2: for the children. It really is insane to me. There's
Speaker 2: gonna be a hearing. The sun is screaming as they
Speaker 2: carry him out. The mother is so upset, and she's
Speaker 2: really pretty as well. So they all look worried. And
Speaker 2: thank god he has a sister he can turn to
Speaker 2: am I. Right, So now we hear a baby crying
Speaker 2: and she's in a box. I mean, the boy it's
Speaker 2: obviously a boy. He said, no boys. So the boy
Speaker 2: baby is in a box on the church steps, amongst
Speaker 2: the homeless that are sleeping on the church steps. I mean,
Speaker 2: God forbid they open the door and let them inside. Right,
Speaker 2: So then they only wanted to keep the girl baby
Speaker 2: and probably like to raise for child trafficking stuff like
Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't know what's going on. So
Speaker 2: but we know the homeless people will help the baby.
Speaker 2: And now Tomorrow is at work. Look sexy as hell.
Speaker 2: He's in a white button down shirt. He looks like
Speaker 2: an uncle getting loose at a wedding. You know, it's
Speaker 2: not really work attire. It's like he's worriing evening wear
Speaker 2: in to the office. And so they amara's gonna go
Speaker 2: beat the baby at the hospital, and bet says like,
Speaker 2: I'm right behind you. But at this exact moment, Simon
Speaker 2: runs in, so she's like, Simon, this isn't a good time.
Speaker 2: He goes it's an emergency, and Rollin says, I'll cover
Speaker 2: for you. Benson doesn't seem like she wants to help,
Speaker 2: and she's like, okay, well five years and not a
Speaker 2: word and no call. So and she's obviously like triggered
Speaker 2: as hell because this is Seasont thirteen. So Stabler left
Speaker 2: without a phone call, without a trace, and now her
Speaker 2: brother has been ignoring her for five years. So he's like,
Speaker 2: the city has taken my kids, and she's like, you
Speaker 2: have kids, and he goes, yeah, Stepsud, who's a boy.
Speaker 2: The baby girl named after you, Olivia, it's your niece,
Speaker 2: and they just they just took them. He says, it's
Speaker 2: my fault, but please help me. She looks like hardship, right,
Speaker 2: Like she's like, what do you want? Like, obviously she's
Speaker 2: gonna help him, but she doesn't want to. So it
Speaker 2: goes to it's off of her gorgeous face.
Speaker 1: I completely forgot that he has a full child named
Speaker 1: Olivia who exists in the world.
Speaker 2: They have to like bring her back. Well at the
Speaker 2: you know Tracy too, Like.
Speaker 1: Well, right, but like at some point in this series,
Speaker 1: this is like Odia Benson's only living relative besides I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, no.
Speaker 2: But yeah, hopefully herd he sweets her. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I would love that. So we're in wood room blinds
Speaker 2: and he met Tracy two years ago. He was working
Speaker 2: at a clinic and she brought in tie for a checkup.
Speaker 2: They're getting married in Jude. Oh, I sped ahead, I said,
Speaker 2: his wife, but fiance. So there's a cute photo in
Speaker 2: his wallet of the whole family. And she's like, we'll
Speaker 2: be honest, what's the reason. And he's like, I did
Speaker 2: make a mistake. I rode through a stop side the
Speaker 2: cop had an attitude, made exit the car, searched me
Speaker 2: and I had a joy in my pocket, and you know,
Speaker 2: his wife and kids are in the car, and she's like, but.
Speaker 3: It's also like.
Speaker 2: For a joy, like why are everyone is pretending they
Speaker 2: care about the kids, And it's like, none of you,
Speaker 2: like you think it's cooler for these children to be
Speaker 2: scared with someone, you know, their parents being taken out whatever. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and then she acts like it's this crazy thing too,
Speaker 2: like oh really, and it's hard to watch now as
Speaker 2: it's fully legal. Yeah, And so he's like, listen, I
Speaker 2: had dental work, I lost its seat of weight and
Speaker 2: the smoking like helped boost my appetite. It'side a big
Speaker 2: deal and it's also still again one joint and ed
Speaker 2: he the cop said do you have anything on you
Speaker 2: made him take it out of his pocket and then
Speaker 2: got in trouble for public display, so it's really fucked up,
Speaker 2: and then they call child services for this.
Speaker 1: This whole thing too is like really kind of unbelievable
Speaker 1: to me because I just feel like it's to me,
Speaker 1: it's more likely, and I'm sure we have tons of
Speaker 1: listeners who like work with like the foster care system
Speaker 1: and CPS and stuff like that, but like, to me,
Speaker 1: it's more likely that they would sort of give custody
Speaker 1: to Tracy and say you can take the kids, like,
Speaker 1: but they have to be out of the house where
Speaker 1: they have to be away from him. If he's the
Speaker 1: one with the joint and he's the one that you
Speaker 1: think gave the bruise or whatever, then like, I don't
Speaker 1: really see what they set up that would be a
Speaker 1: problem with them staying with their mother. Oh, racism, yes,
Speaker 1: And also they would definitely try to make sure that
Speaker 1: he didn't have a family member they could go with
Speaker 1: before they just rip them into the arms of foster care.
Speaker 1: They would say, they would look and say, oh, he's
Speaker 1: related to a decorated detective of Law and Order Special Victims.
Speaker 1: You did, she would have gotten a call to probably
Speaker 1: take those kids, you know, like she probably has family
Speaker 1: that they could have gone to again racism. It's just
Speaker 1: like that this doesn't feel like it's being done correctly
Speaker 1: at all.
Speaker 2: No, And you know, we'll get into this and like
Speaker 2: the patterns and stuff, but yeah, it's just like how
Speaker 2: they pick and choose. And I think there's a reason
Speaker 2: they did like both of these cases in one episode
Speaker 2: to kind of show like the horrors that happened that
Speaker 2: fall through the cracks, so that this family being broken
Speaker 2: apart because of a joint.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and racism and a dash of racism.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And it's like you're taking someone out of a car
Speaker 2: for a rolling stop, side making them take the joint out,
Speaker 2: then then arresting them for public display. It's like it is,
Speaker 2: it's truly crazy.
Speaker 1: And he's like yeah, and the amount of taxpayer money
Speaker 1: that you're pouring into this also from the traffic stop
Speaker 1: to the like like him getting in trouble to her
Speaker 1: to taking the kids, This is like a lot of
Speaker 1: taxpayer money going towards a guy who has a joint.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just like it's part of it where it's
Speaker 2: like if you inherently think black people are bad, then
Speaker 2: that's that And like Simon is what you know, it's
Speaker 2: a mixed race couple. I don't know. It can't be me,
Speaker 2: it can't be me. So they call child services. They
Speaker 2: came to their house. He lives at a walk up
Speaker 2: in West Harlem, and then tie out a bruce from
Speaker 2: an accident, but they don't hurt their kids. And she's like,
Speaker 2: let me look at the removal order and he's like,
Speaker 2: can you do something?
Speaker 3: She says, she'll try.
Speaker 2: Craigan sees her in the office and am I delusion
Speaker 2: to like, I feel like we haven't done a Craigan
Speaker 2: episode in forever, Like I feel like I haven't seen Cragan.
Speaker 1: We haven't seen Fragan in a minute, because we've been
Speaker 1: doing some more recent episodes.
Speaker 3: And right away he's like, what does he want?
Speaker 2: And you know, last time he was here he almost
Speaker 2: cost to your shield and Met says to remind him that
Speaker 2: he was framed. He was framed for that crime that
Speaker 2: he did not commit. But again he goes and what
Speaker 2: does he want. She's like, Hey, it's the only family
Speaker 2: I have, and Craigan says, and believe me, he knows it.
Speaker 2: Watch your step and then Craigan walks off. So we're
Speaker 2: at Mercy Hospital. The baby has cared for no side
Speaker 2: of abuse, wrapped in a blanket, and like someone wanted
Speaker 2: the baby to be found, but like why not do
Speaker 2: like a safe haven drop off at a fire department,
Speaker 2: up on a borrow, guests is it's someone who does
Speaker 2: not want to be involved in the system.
Speaker 3: But anyway, and.
Speaker 2: Then a nurse brings the baby to him and rawlins
Speaker 2: and he was delivered within twenty four hours.
Speaker 3: The stuff wasn't even dry.
Speaker 2: I don't want to talk about it, but it was
Speaker 2: cut and whoever gave birth like did have help. So
Speaker 2: that Rollins is like I'm missing kids I'm used to
Speaker 2: but like just lost, like fucking left babies.
Speaker 3: This is a lot.
Speaker 2: And again it's season thirteen, so it's Rollin's and Tomorrow's
Speaker 2: first season, so they're getting used to the more hainous crimes.
Speaker 2: So they are gonna get the DNA and in the
Speaker 2: meantime they're going to canvass the neighborhood. So like maybe
Speaker 2: someone saw a pregnant woman who's no longer pregnant but
Speaker 2: doesn't have a baby. So then Fit and Munch talk
Speaker 2: to the guy from the church stairs and they're getting
Speaker 2: not really a lot. The only thing they say is
Speaker 2: there's a red van that drove by for days like
Speaker 2: circling and circling, and Benson's on the phone. It's ce
Speaker 2: met room, bars on her brother's case, and Craigan interrupts like,
Speaker 2: are you busy, bitch? And there's a team meeting and
Speaker 2: Munch is leading, so Munch brings up the van. But
Speaker 2: also as of now, familial search, no hits, no women
Speaker 2: have come, like looking for help in a hospital. And
Speaker 2: Benson is texting on her phone with her personal business,
Speaker 2: and Craigan goes, everyone's stay focused, emphasis on everyone, because
Speaker 2: this is gonna be a media circus.
Speaker 3: He says.
Speaker 2: Amorrow notices Bence has distracted and they kind of zoom
Speaker 2: in on.
Speaker 3: Each others faces.
Speaker 2: So then he's focused on her and she's focused somewhere else.
Speaker 2: And then bay aren't Ellis is here aka Andre Brarr
Speaker 2: and may he rest? And he did look into the
Speaker 2: case and he's like, it's really wild that they took
Speaker 2: the kid for one joint and Ellis is like, yeah,
Speaker 2: this has happened before, and in all other instances the
Speaker 2: parents were black or Hispanic, and so the Ben says like,
Speaker 2: well his fiance is black, and he goes, oh, well
Speaker 2: that makes sense now I was confused, and he's going
Speaker 2: to take the case since there is a clear pattern.
Speaker 2: She's quite relieved and he asks about him and she's like, well,
Speaker 2: we have the same father, and he nods and gets
Speaker 2: it immediately and says family secrets. So now Craig asks
Speaker 2: Fitt and Robin's if they found something, and Fit asks
Speaker 2: if he remembers Celia Barber, a thirteen year old girl
Speaker 2: who got kidnapped outside of Montclair, that's New Jersey about
Speaker 2: three years ago, and he says, yes, you know, she
Speaker 2: was never found, but her DNA is in the system
Speaker 2: and she is the mother. So Celia is a lot
Speaker 2: and is the mother of this baby. And then the
Speaker 2: report she was snatched by somewhat in a red van.
Speaker 2: So now we have like the holest church crew bringing
Speaker 2: up the red van and these old reports with the
Speaker 2: red van. So why red is such a wild color?
Speaker 2: But they could tell the parents my dad used to
Speaker 2: drive a red van. It looked like an absolutely straight out.
Speaker 4: Of s view.
Speaker 3: No red is fine.
Speaker 2: I'm just saying in terms of committing crimes, yeah, it's
Speaker 2: a little bit more attention getting.
Speaker 1: Yes, But I will say that like the van my
Speaker 1: dad used to drive more of a maroon. I would
Speaker 1: say it like, it's not like a flashy cherry red
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think he could have
Speaker 1: easily picked up a couple of random kids and you
Speaker 1: wouldn't have really even clocked it.
Speaker 2: So they could tell the parents like she's alive, so
Speaker 2: that's cool, but they do still have to find her,
Speaker 2: so it's pretty sad.
Speaker 3: They go to the mob.
Speaker 2: She's wearing a pearl necklace at ear eggs and she
Speaker 2: cannot believe this information, and she's, you know, the dad
Speaker 2: is her ex. She got remarried since and Oborro's that's
Speaker 2: so crazy, like your daughter got kidnapped three years ago,
Speaker 2: you got divorced, found a new partner, and already reburied, Like.
Speaker 3: How many years has she been gone? The girl? Three years?
Speaker 1: Three, that is, But I'll tell you in the real
Speaker 1: case something that's so oh oh, not all the way similar.
Speaker 3: But some interesting.
Speaker 2: I just like, I don't know, it's just so wild
Speaker 2: to like reburry so fast, but you know what do
Speaker 2: I know? So Obarro's like you'd never brought you never
Speaker 2: bought the story, and she's like it's just always felt off,
Speaker 2: like they're on a bike ride and all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: you know, a red van. She's like, and I'm not
Speaker 2: the only one who had doubts. The cops asked if
Speaker 2: Leo and her were ever too close, and she was
Speaker 2: always a daddy's girl. She's like, I thought maybe something
Speaker 2: happened and he tried to cover it up. And she's
Speaker 2: obviously upset by all this information. You know, she blamed
Speaker 2: Leo for something he didn't do. But it is good.
Speaker 2: She's alive, but like she is shade and giving birth
Speaker 2: in a basement, so like, what's gonna happen. So now
Speaker 2: we're with the dad and she got ahead of him
Speaker 2: on the bike and I do recognize this man and
Speaker 2: I yelled at him in a boxing class in La
Speaker 2: He was like annoying me. I don't remember for what,
Speaker 2: and I kind of like gave him attitude and then
Speaker 2: he was like, my bad.
Speaker 3: I think I totally like shut up or something. But
Speaker 3: I did fight him.
Speaker 2: So he peddled as hard as he could to catch up,
Speaker 2: but couldn't. And he's been praying for this day. He's like,
Speaker 2: nobody would believe me. And he's with like Ben sit
Speaker 2: at the office and he has nightmares about chasing this van.
Speaker 2: He lost his marriage, his savings, everything. He spent all
Speaker 2: this money out of PI trying to find her. Fit
Speaker 2: asked if there were any leads with the PI, and
Speaker 2: he has a giant binder filled with all this information.
Speaker 2: Two years ago, a clerk at a thrift shop recognized
Speaker 2: Celia's photo.
Speaker 3: He said.
Speaker 2: The girl started crying and asked the clerk to call
Speaker 2: her father, and the older woman pulled her away and
Speaker 2: said that girl, like, you know, you're acting out. So
Speaker 2: and they were shopping for baby clothes and she was pregnant,
Speaker 2: but that was two years ago, and he, you know,
Speaker 2: he talked to her himself. He says, so she might
Speaker 2: have two kids by now, because obviously that's too years ago.
Speaker 2: And they were shopping for baby clothes and she just
Speaker 2: gave birth like days ago.
Speaker 3: So this is diabolical.
Speaker 2: So they're gonna go find the clerk, but Benson is
Speaker 2: asking him to cover for her, and he's like, yeah, duh,
Speaker 2: I'm thin, I'll do whatever. So then Ellis is on
Speaker 2: the so okay so Bugsy Kane Kevin Kane aka Bruno
Speaker 2: in one of his five other parts on SVUS on
Speaker 2: the Stand, and he's the arresting officer who arrested Simon,
Speaker 2: and Ellis is like, obviously you're lying, bro, Like you're
Speaker 2: telling me he like just took a joint out of
Speaker 2: his pocket in front of a cop and started.
Speaker 3: You know, doing it.
Speaker 2: And he goes, why I smelled pot? And he's like,
Speaker 2: you smelled pot on a nod liit joint? Like I
Speaker 2: fucking doubt it, bro, and the whatever. Kevin Kane's a
Speaker 2: great actor. He's so young, he's so evil, he's so smug.
Speaker 2: And basically, how many traffic stops have you made in
Speaker 2: the last six months? He says sixty to seventy. Ellis
Speaker 2: has seventy eight. And how many did you make an arrest?
Speaker 2: And that's twenty two and all except for three year
Speaker 2: above ninety sixth Street.
Speaker 3: And he's like, well, I don't really have an opinion
Speaker 3: about that.
Speaker 2: Ellis is like, well you're under oath actually, and he's like, listen,
Speaker 2: something seemed off and that's that. And it's like did
Speaker 2: something seem off because it was a mixed race family.
Speaker 2: So now both lawyers approach the bench and Kevin Kaye's
Speaker 2: lawyer and Ellis are but basically she's like, we're down
Speaker 2: to bring it down to disorderly, and Ellis goes, no,
Speaker 2: it's a bad search, pure and simple. The judge agree
Speaker 2: is huge, motion is suppressed, case dismissed. Everyone feels like
Speaker 2: they can breathe again. So, now, like, when are they
Speaker 2: going to get their kids back? And they're walking down
Speaker 2: the courtroom stairs and he's like, listen, like the main
Speaker 2: reason they were taken out is no longer valid, so
Speaker 2: you'll get your kids.
Speaker 3: But we obviously know it can't be this easy.
Speaker 2: Or like eight minutes in, so Simon is like, you
Speaker 2: want to meet your niece and they go to the
Speaker 2: center and she's holding maybe Olivia. It's all so cute,
Speaker 2: and she's talking to Tyler too, and they really are
Speaker 2: super cute kids. And then Simon says, this is your family.
Speaker 2: And then when the kids come home, we should set
Speaker 2: up a regular Sunday dinner. And Ben said, is so
Speaker 2: touched by this idea. So now we're back with the team.
Speaker 2: Basin is fully focused on the case now. But now
Speaker 2: bet everything's taken care of LOLJK. So this is a
Speaker 2: lot of New Jersey talk, and like, I was scared
Speaker 2: there's gonna be state line issues and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: But they found another case similar that happened outside of
Speaker 2: Newark Hospital, so they're opt to figure out if that
Speaker 2: baby and this baby and all these babies are connected.
Speaker 2: So now we're in a family court and Ellis is
Speaker 2: doing his thing and the judge is like, sorry, he
Speaker 2: had weed and that's legal, so fuck him. And then
Speaker 2: this Aaron Brockovich bitch springs up fast because there's other issues.
Speaker 2: The house was disorganized, and it's like who gives a shit?
Speaker 2: And again the bruise, and it's like kids get bruises.
Speaker 2: I have bruises right now, No one beat me up.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 1: I mean I've talked about this in my COSSA training
Speaker 1: that like those are biases that you're supposed to look past,
Speaker 1: like like sure, maybe you would have a rug on
Speaker 1: the living room floor and you're like the floor is bare.
Speaker 1: That doesn't mean the kids are unsafe, do you know
Speaker 1: what I mean? You have to like get past your
Speaker 1: biases that are like that tell you the toys were everywhere?
Speaker 3: Okay, the toys were everywhere in a lot of.
Speaker 1: Rich people's houses, you know what I mean, Like it
Speaker 1: just like you have to just the home being disorganized
Speaker 1: is like truly, I don't think a reason ever to
Speaker 1: take children, rip them out of their homes and traumatize them.
Speaker 3: Agree, And we're trained for that to know that. So
Speaker 3: and the.
Speaker 2: Judge brings up like this rape case and Elis is
Speaker 2: like they were false charges by a disgraced cop, Like
Speaker 2: what are we even doing here? And the judge is like, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: even though none of this is real and it's just
Speaker 2: one joy and I think it's better that these children
Speaker 2: stay in foster care where there's smoke, there's fire, and
Speaker 2: that's that we have to protect these kids. And like,
Speaker 2: I can't believe it. I really can't believe it. So
Speaker 2: she goes, when we hagnore neglected abuse, it's led to
Speaker 2: tragic results, but this isn't it, And that Ellis states
Speaker 2: the obvious, which is like this is not the best
Speaker 2: case of the children. And they both have loving parents,
Speaker 2: like what's going on? And he's like if it was
Speaker 2: two white parents, I'm sure you wouldn't have an issue,
Speaker 2: and he calls what's happening unconsciousable, and the judge tells
Speaker 2: him enough, so now he has to do drug rehab
Speaker 2: and in six months they'll review the case and the
Speaker 2: kids will be left in foster care like I can't,
Speaker 2: I really can't, And so everyone is shocked. And now
Speaker 2: they're on the streets and Simon is screaming like they
Speaker 2: dropped the pot charge. How could they even do this?
Speaker 2: And Olivia says, we're gonna fight this, and he goes
Speaker 2: stop trying to convince me to trust the system and
Speaker 2: the process, like obviously I don't trust any of you motherfuckers.
Speaker 3: They storm off.
Speaker 2: Allison Benson are watching them walk away, and so now
Speaker 2: back to like the other case, Omaro and Rollins come
Speaker 2: in and this other baby's DNA does not match Celia,
Speaker 2: but both boys have the same father, So what are
Speaker 2: we looking at This father's been at this for fucking years.
Speaker 2: Four days ago we have baby baby John Doe abandoned
Speaker 2: our West thirty third Street. And then three years ago
Speaker 2: we have baby John Doe. Number two was found in Newark,
Speaker 2: both well cared for, left near hospital, so Ben's but
Speaker 2: then Benson gets a text. The rest of the team
Speaker 2: keeps chatting about the baby docases and it's like state
Speaker 2: by state, the hospitals are closed, the vans, the labs,
Speaker 2: like there's so many different things going on, like how
Speaker 2: are they going to get to the bottom of it.
Speaker 2: So obviously they have to go to Newark and Amaro
Speaker 2: and Rollins head on down. So the nurse is doing
Speaker 2: a walk and talk and there's a copy. Oh we're
Speaker 2: at a CPS style office. That's what I figure out.
Speaker 2: And they call this baby a miracle baby. They're like,
Speaker 2: the baby was healthy, there was even ointment on the arm,
Speaker 2: and nobody ever claimed the baby. And she's like, I did,
Speaker 2: but I did get a strange call from the Foster
Speaker 2: family last summer and they wanted to know about the
Speaker 2: statue of limitations of when bioparents can reclaim their children.
Speaker 3: Huh okay.
Speaker 2: So now Bensid goes to apologize to Alice. Alice is like,
Speaker 2: don't worry. Everything that's happening is fucked up. It's an
Speaker 2: abuse of power, like it's fine that Simon's piston screaming,
Speaker 2: like it's fine. Ben say's like, well, what can we do?
Speaker 2: And he says, well, I've been reviewing the judges cases
Speaker 2: and whatever. There's minority parents, she's upheld removal but ruled
Speaker 2: the other way whenever it's two white parents, and he's
Speaker 2: trying to set up a ruling. Ben said, asks the
Speaker 2: Siwich yeah, I.
Speaker 1: Don't even think I caught that. I didn't know the
Speaker 1: judge was fucked up too, Like what is the luck
Speaker 1: to get the bad cop and the bad judge? I mean,
Speaker 1: like I knew the judge was fucked up, but like
Speaker 1: I didn't know it was like a history.
Speaker 3: I didn't I miss that part. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So then but Benson is like, well for the hearing,
Speaker 2: should Simon be there? And he's like, well, only if
Speaker 2: he could stay chill. He can't be blowing up in court.
Speaker 2: So now we cut to the home of Will and
Speaker 2: Jenna Fleming and there's a little blonde boy playing and
Speaker 2: the parents are pissed. They're like, why the fuck is
Speaker 2: the NYPDR at our house? We haven't done anything wrong.
Speaker 2: And they're like, hey, I know we're here in a
Speaker 2: different case because you asked about like Dylan's biological parents,
Speaker 2: and they're rights like correct, and he goes why and
Speaker 2: so basically, something happened in July. The dad tells Tomorrow
Speaker 2: and rowins they were in the city house sitting for
Speaker 2: you know, the mom's parents, and a homeless young girl
Speaker 2: came up to them in Central Park and asked how
Speaker 2: Dylan was and then said it was her baby and
Speaker 2: that he had been taken, and.
Speaker 3: When they adopted the baby, the Times read.
Speaker 2: An article about them, and the photo of them was
Speaker 2: in Central Park. So like, this girl I think has
Speaker 2: just been walking around Central Park for years waiting for
Speaker 2: this opportunity to like find her baby. And the dad goes, whatever,
Speaker 2: she's just a crazy girl who forfeited her rights when
Speaker 2: she left him in a box. And they're like, well,
Speaker 2: you felt it was serious enough to inquire about it,
Speaker 2: so like, maybe not that crazy, and it's she has
Speaker 2: been looking and I guess she like sniffed his hat
Speaker 2: and that's when she was like, I know for sure
Speaker 2: it's my baby. And so then Will took a photo
Speaker 2: on his cell phone of the woman just in case
Speaker 2: in a file a restraining order. So also it's like
Speaker 2: if you see an almost young girl who's like, I
Speaker 2: guess our education and knowledge about all these matters is
Speaker 2: deeper than the regular person. But it's like to just
Speaker 2: be well, a stupid bitch forfeited her rights and not
Speaker 2: like is this an abuse victim?
Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Like right, and I know it's like you're protecting your
Speaker 2: own kid, obviously, that's your number one priority. In this moment,
Speaker 2: but just the leaps people do to villainize people that
Speaker 2: are clearly struggling, you.
Speaker 3: Know what I mean.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I guess if someone approached you, well you
Speaker 2: gave birth, yeah, because like if someone approached.
Speaker 3: You and said that's my kid, you'd be like, I
Speaker 3: feel like you're probably not.
Speaker 2: So now we have the photo of the girl, and
Speaker 2: Rawlin's and Munch are out and about and they're talking
Speaker 2: to a woman like doing a food bank line outside
Speaker 2: and she goes, that's Laurie. They call her Crackers because
Speaker 2: she always wants stupid crackers, but also obviously because they
Speaker 2: think she's crazy. So and then they're like, she might
Speaker 2: be bipolar. We're not sure, but late teens and a
Speaker 2: lot of mileage, like something definitely happened to her. So
Speaker 2: this food bank woman knows what's up. And she had
Speaker 2: a story that she was kidnapped and held in a dungeon.
Speaker 2: But she's like, lots of people have a story here,
Speaker 2: you know. And the last summer she told this woman
Speaker 2: that she found her baby and she's going to be
Speaker 2: a real bob And they're like, well where is she now?
Speaker 2: The lady doesn't know, but Munch suggests looking for her
Speaker 2: at women shelters. Cuts to Benson meets up with Amorrow
Speaker 2: and he fills her in that Rollins and Munch found
Speaker 2: the girl, and then Simon comes up and interrupts, and
Speaker 2: she's like, this is not a great time. I am working,
Speaker 2: and he's like, I don't know what to do. We
Speaker 2: visited them at the foster home. They're crying and they're hungry.
Speaker 2: They don't like the food there, and someone said that
Speaker 2: they might even put them up for adoption, and she goes, no,
Speaker 2: Ellis will not let that happen.
Speaker 3: He's filing for a hearing.
Speaker 2: We're on it and Simon screams when and she's like,
Speaker 2: can you give him time to do his job?
Speaker 3: Like please?
Speaker 2: He is a probe and she sends him off to
Speaker 2: go home and be with Tracy and wait. But obviously
Speaker 2: he's stressed it or stand that, but it's just like
Speaker 2: it's all really a mess. Like I understand his frustration
Speaker 2: and fears, but it's like, you do have to be patient,
Speaker 2: but I'm not a patient person when I'm stressed out
Speaker 2: and like things like this happened, So you know, I
Speaker 2: get it.
Speaker 3: I get where he's coming from. But it's like bro relax.
Speaker 2: And so then they're at now we cut and we're
Speaker 2: at the shelter where Laurie is and her parents never
Speaker 2: reported her missing even though she always and it's because
Speaker 2: she was always running away. She said, she constantly was
Speaker 2: running away. She never felt settled. And they're like, but
Speaker 2: why didn't your parents report you missing? She goes, why
Speaker 2: I always came back except for this last time. And
Speaker 2: they took me and they kept me lopped up, and
Speaker 2: Bensay goes like who who? And it was a man
Speaker 2: and his wife and they made her call them Bobby
Speaker 2: and Daddy, and they found her in pen station. She
Speaker 2: was asking for money for a trade ticket back home.
Speaker 2: Like this makes me like, anyone that asks me money
Speaker 2: for a trade ticket, I'm gonna do it.
Speaker 3: I'm doing it. I'm doing it.
Speaker 2: You heard it here now, like anyone that asked me
Speaker 2: for a ticket, I will buy them a ticket. Yeah,
Speaker 2: because this is this is gonna haunt me. So they're like, oh,
Speaker 2: we'll just give you a ride. And since it was
Speaker 2: a couple, she felt okay. And obviously this reminds me
Speaker 2: of the Colleen standcase the Girl in the Box, which
Speaker 2: is hot to be for since we started this podcast,
Speaker 2: and I think about Colleen NonStop. But Benson asks what
Speaker 2: they looked like, and it is crazy the cases we
Speaker 2: did for our first like ted, like we really went
Speaker 2: hardcore all the way. Yeah to the paint, Yeah, because
Speaker 2: we did like the full Burned episode, like we just
Speaker 2: full it.
Speaker 3: Are those horrific.
Speaker 2: Episodes and it's so cool we got to talk to
Speaker 2: the writer of that episode.
Speaker 4: Whatever.
Speaker 3: We have such a fun podcast.
Speaker 2: I don't know if funds the word informative, informative, informative, cool.
Speaker 3: Passion, last speak for yourself.
Speaker 2: So yeah, anyone that needs a trade ticket, I will
Speaker 2: be buying it for you. And she does look super
Speaker 2: dirty and like small blonde girl, and she looks very tired,
Speaker 2: like life has really fucked her up. And she explains
Speaker 2: that this man was big and sweaty and not a
Speaker 2: lot of hair and that the woman was shorter with long,
Speaker 2: dark hair, and they drugged her and she just woke
Speaker 2: up and she was in a room and she could
Speaker 2: hear a boiler and once her or twice they let
Speaker 2: her out, but they did go far. And Tomorrow asks
Speaker 2: if she remembers anything, and she's like, yes, there was
Speaker 2: like a tall silver building with tons of triangles a
Speaker 2: few blocks away, so they guess it's the Hearst Building
Speaker 2: on fifty seventh in Manhattan. I'm like, now you find
Speaker 2: the room for a cellar in Manhattan.
Speaker 1: The audacity to be like kidnapping people and holding them
Speaker 1: long enough to like impregnate them and have them give
Speaker 1: birth in Manhattan, I don't under I mean.
Speaker 3: I guess there are a basements, but.
Speaker 2: But yeah, he would give her lemonade and vodka and
Speaker 2: then he would get on top of her and bedsit
Speaker 2: is listening, and it's so upsetting. They kept her for
Speaker 2: over a year and she had the baby and the
Speaker 2: guy said no boys in this house, and then they
Speaker 2: took the baby and that was it, and she couldn't
Speaker 2: stop crying. So they put her in the van and
Speaker 2: dubbed her by Yankee Stadium and then Craigan walks it
Speaker 2: to the shelter. So Benson excuses herself and it's like, uh, oh, captain,
Speaker 2: what's going on? And he's like, when's the last time
Speaker 2: he talks to Simon. She says it an hour ago,
Speaker 2: and then he asks if she knows where he is,
Speaker 2: and she says she has no idea. So he has
Speaker 2: been calling her, but she hasn't answered. What's going on. Well,
Speaker 2: fortunately Simon and his fiance kidnap the children for foster care.
Speaker 2: There's an Amber alert out for him, Like, are you
Speaker 2: out of your fucking mind, Simon, Like, we're rooting for you,
Speaker 2: We're fucking rooting for you. We're on our side. You've
Speaker 2: been fucked over the system. You have a fucking lieutenant
Speaker 2: on your side. You have, you know, bayern al Alice
Speaker 2: on your side. I like that they made his character
Speaker 2: name as hard to say as his as his real
Speaker 2: actor name, you know what I mean, Like Broad brought
Speaker 2: her so hard for me to say, and but Bayard
Speaker 2: Ellis is so hard for me.
Speaker 3: They're both really difficult.
Speaker 2: And now that I'm like stuffed up and sick, like
Speaker 2: I mean, it's it's just like been hard for me.
Speaker 1: But like this fucking guy, like if you remember when
Speaker 1: he was going through his whole case where he was
Speaker 1: getting like framed for the rape back in Jersey or whatever,
Speaker 1: he jumped bail and Olivia got in trouble for like no,
Speaker 1: and so now it's like he's stealing his kids. It's
Speaker 1: like you want to feel bad for this guy. But
Speaker 1: he's just keeping making all these boneheaded decisions.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, and so that he of course, Craigan of
Speaker 2: course goes, I use your photo. You don't have a choice.
Speaker 2: So she's stunned. It's like, what the fuck? Why would
Speaker 2: he do this? So obviously they've been found. Immediately they're
Speaker 2: being arrested, the kids are being taken. A uniform cop
Speaker 2: slams Simon on the hood of the car, and Benson
Speaker 2: runs up like, hey, hey, he's not resisting, and the
Speaker 2: guy goes, who the hell are you, and it's like,
Speaker 2: you're Superior's buddy. Shut the fuck up. So then Craigan
Speaker 2: begs to take custody of them. He's like, fine, but
Speaker 2: just follow us to booking. So the Benson enters the
Speaker 2: cage with him and Simon. At least he makes a
Speaker 2: little joke and goes, god, I love Belodi sandwiches. And
Speaker 2: she asked what was he thinking and he says, well,
Speaker 2: obviously I wasn't. And then Tracy had family at South
Speaker 2: Carolina and like, I just thought I would go there,
Speaker 2: and it's like, you're a fucking idiot.
Speaker 3: He goes, I messed up.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, and she's like, well, yeah you did, and
Speaker 2: he just wanted to be a good father. She knows that,
Speaker 2: and then he says, what is weird, as my father
Speaker 2: was a better dad to me that I've been to
Speaker 2: my own kids. She gives him a death stare and
Speaker 2: he's like oops, and it's like, yeah, your dad's a rapist,
Speaker 2: So if you're done with him, and he goes, if
Speaker 2: you're done with me, I completely understand, and Mezico's just stop, Simon,
Speaker 2: just stop.
Speaker 3: And she sighs and.
Speaker 2: She's like, I'm going to talk to Ellis, but the
Speaker 2: bail's gonna be hard, and he does understand that, and
Speaker 2: she looks very pretty.
Speaker 3: I love her.
Speaker 2: So he says I'm sorry, and she goes like, you
Speaker 2: want to be a good dad, grow up. And he's
Speaker 2: locked away and she leaves. So now rollins Hays, Laurie
Speaker 2: and woodroom blinds, and she asked that the man and
Speaker 2: women are the only people she saw.
Speaker 3: She says that she heard other people.
Speaker 2: Sometimes they would have parties in the courtyard, but she
Speaker 2: didn't scream because there were rules in the house. But
Speaker 2: one time police came and she did start screaming. This
Speaker 2: peaks Tomorrow's interest, and then the h and then she goes, well,
Speaker 2: the mommy came in and gagged and drugged me and
Speaker 2: it was with a needle, like surrendered something into her arm.
Speaker 2: So then she heard the radios and like someone maybe
Speaker 2: got shot, and she did hear a gunshot.
Speaker 3: There was a man screaming.
Speaker 2: There were sirens and it was July fifth, the first
Speaker 2: year with them. And the reason she clocked that is
Speaker 2: because the day before there were fireworks, so she knew
Speaker 2: it was July fourth. Smart girl. So she doesn't want
Speaker 2: to go back to the shelter. She doesn't blame her,
Speaker 2: and she's going to make some calls and figure some
Speaker 2: stuff out and like help her out. So now if
Speaker 2: we could help Cibon, I think we can help Laurie.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So then it's a raiment core and Alice is like, okay, listen,
Speaker 2: my clients are earn a flight risk and it's like,
Speaker 2: are you kidding me? They truly kidnapped and tried to
Speaker 2: flew the coop the day before. But he goes, what
Speaker 2: they want more is to be that anything, is to
Speaker 2: be reunited with their kids.
Speaker 3: And there's a new judge, thank god.
Speaker 2: And she's like, well, that's one way to rationalize kidnapping
Speaker 2: and she gives the wife bail since it's her first time,
Speaker 2: but he gets no bail. Betson and Ellis are walking
Speaker 2: back down the court steps and he is like, well,
Speaker 2: we've lost the high ground, and you know, he's like,
Speaker 2: arguing that the state had no right to take their
Speaker 2: kids is one thing, but now we're talking second degree kidnapping,
Speaker 2: which is a class B felony. Like, girl, he could
Speaker 2: get twenty five. And she's like, there's got to be
Speaker 2: a way to reduce the charges. She's like, I hate
Speaker 2: pushing you, and Alice is like, listen, he's made it
Speaker 2: very hard for us and like, how could I It's
Speaker 2: a stable home now, and she's like, well, what about
Speaker 2: the class action lawsuit? He goes, yeah, I'm preparing that,
Speaker 2: but like, I have to find a different test case now.
Speaker 2: So now Amara walks in and Finn is sitting on
Speaker 2: top of his desk hip cool. Love that they walked
Speaker 2: Laurie around Hell's kitchen and besides the Hearst building, like
Speaker 2: nothing else really looked familiar to her. So now Munch
Speaker 2: walks in and goes, well, what about this July shooting
Speaker 2: and Rollins is like, well, yeah, dozens of police reports
Speaker 2: it's fucking three day holiday weekend. Do you think people
Speaker 2: will remember anything? Like, what are the odds of that?
Speaker 2: Finn turns around and gives her a nasty look because
Speaker 2: it's like, okay, gambling at it. What are we talking
Speaker 2: about odds for? And she goes, it's just an expression.
Speaker 2: And she's also like, let's just check the ers and
Speaker 2: see what's up. So they're at Mercy Hospital and okay,
Speaker 2: this is what's crazy.
Speaker 3: You're telling me.
Speaker 2: A New York City er nurse remembers the case from
Speaker 2: three and a half years ago. I'm sorry, you've reached
Speaker 2: the limits of what I can do. But she goes, oh,
Speaker 2: the rat slayer, I remember that because the uncle well,
Speaker 2: I guess this is funny, but an uncle shot his
Speaker 2: nephew in the foot, claiming he was aiming at a
Speaker 2: rap So they're like, you know, so it's a hero nurse.
Speaker 3: She remembers this. She also says that when he got in.
Speaker 2: Though, the wound had already been well taken care of,
Speaker 2: and it's like, well, that's crazy, and they're like, well,
Speaker 2: his aunt brought him in.
Speaker 3: Who's the aunt?
Speaker 2: Magda Plaski and she works here and she's one of
Speaker 2: the best neonatal nurses are that's ever been And they
Speaker 2: go and did she used to work in New Jersey
Speaker 2: And they go and she the other the nurse goes, yeah,
Speaker 2: the New Work Hospital General before it closed. So they
Speaker 2: find Magda and she's like, give me a minute, there's
Speaker 2: a baby that needs my help. But they're like, actually, bitch,
Speaker 2: I don't think so, and he's like, you're gonna make
Speaker 2: us chase you. So she knows what's up and she goes, well,
Speaker 2: i'll talk to you in an hour when my shift's done,
Speaker 2: and they're like, you're a dumb bitch, Like I truly
Speaker 2: want to grab her by her ponytail.
Speaker 3: It's slammer.
Speaker 2: It gets the ground and Rala's screams, try now, where
Speaker 2: is Celia?
Speaker 3: She asks.
Speaker 2: She goes, I don't know what you mean, and they're like, oh,
Speaker 2: you know, and you know about the baby that was abandoned,
Speaker 2: so stop playing stupid. You know where his mother is
Speaker 2: and we know that. Robin says, it's over. You worked
Speaker 2: near the hospital where Laurie's son was found too. We
Speaker 2: know everything. You made sure both babies were taken care of,
Speaker 2: and you took care of them, so we know what's
Speaker 2: going on, got it And she responds that you know
Speaker 2: I would let anything bad happen to them, and he's
Speaker 2: sickened by her, and she says, it's just Daddy didn't
Speaker 2: want boys. So your husband, you mean, we know it's
Speaker 2: him and it's not you. So tell us where he's
Speaker 2: keeping Celia. So they head down to the basement. She's
Speaker 2: crying but like, you know, leading them to where she's
Speaker 2: locked up.
Speaker 3: This space is so expansive. What is this?
Speaker 2: It like truly feels like the underground of a school
Speaker 2: or something. Like it's giant a factory. Like how do
Speaker 2: they have access to the space?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Or he's a landlord like or a super or something super. Yes,
Speaker 1: so he can get into like a big basement of
Speaker 1: a large building.
Speaker 2: I guess yeah he look yeah because the way he's
Speaker 2: dressed when they get yeah, he could be a super.
Speaker 2: So they head down to the basement and she's crying
Speaker 2: but leading them there and it's locked from the outside.
Speaker 2: The whole swat team's there. We do find Celia. Benson
Speaker 2: is comforting her. Roalin's is in the back. She's like,
Speaker 2: this girl has no expression on her. She goes, no,
Speaker 2: don't hurt her and We're like, who and a toddler
Speaker 2: is there? There's a fucking little girl in there.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: So Benson immediately is like high sweetheart, bends down, grabs
Speaker 2: a little toddler girl. It's okay, baby girl. She reaches
Speaker 2: for Celia, and then a borrow's screaming at bag to
Speaker 2: where is your husband? And they let her call him
Speaker 2: and it's like she's a dumb bitch, you guys, what
Speaker 2: are you talking about? So she speaks in I'm gonna
Speaker 2: assume Polish because of the name, and she gives him clues,
Speaker 2: so he starts running. A barrow runs after him. There's
Speaker 2: a full pursuit up the fire escapes. They're running up
Speaker 2: now they're on the roof. In my head, I'm like,
Speaker 2: I want him to jump off and die, but also
Speaker 2: I do want him locked up in prison so he can.
Speaker 3: Live the way he like locked up these young girls.
Speaker 4: Yes.
Speaker 2: So Tomorrow gets him and goes it's over daddy and
Speaker 2: drags him away and we're in SeMet room bars and he's,
Speaker 2: you know, signing papers, so probably confessed, and like he
Speaker 2: knows he's caught. So he says, I know you probably
Speaker 2: think you save those girls, but I was their whole world.
Speaker 2: They'll never forget me again. Losers trying to grasp for
Speaker 2: power in this world, and I want to know more
Speaker 2: about them, to be honest, Like I want to know
Speaker 2: more about how they got together. If Magda's going to
Speaker 2: obviously Maga's going to prison too. But they leave him
Speaker 2: below at cemet room bars and scream to get him
Speaker 2: out of there, and Benson says, I need a shower.
Speaker 3: Also, what was again? What was that fucking building?
Speaker 2: Robin says, Celia will be reunited with her family and
Speaker 2: her father's going to petition to have custody of the baby,
Speaker 2: and the two year old daughter, Laurie is getting help
Speaker 2: and the adoptive parents have agreed to let her have visitation,
Speaker 2: which is huge, Like I didn't see that dad agreeing
Speaker 2: to that, And then Craigan says nice work to everyone.
Speaker 2: Benson's phone rings tomorrow, asks what's up, and she just
Speaker 2: walks past him. Tomorrow's due in her life, like she
Speaker 2: doesn't give a fuck, And so that now we're like
Speaker 2: a in prison Simon and Ellis, and she's like Ellis
Speaker 2: worked on a deal between child Services in the DA's
Speaker 2: office to reduce it from kidnapping to custodial interference, which
Speaker 2: is a misdemeanor, which is a huge win, and he'll
Speaker 2: only serve sixty days. And he goes, wait, where's Tracy.
Speaker 2: Shouldn't Tracy be here? And Ben's goes, well, she had
Speaker 2: to get her own lawyer. They're separating the cases. It's
Speaker 2: the only way for Tracy to regain custody. One condition
Speaker 2: is you will give up your custody petition. And he screams,
Speaker 2: so I have to give up my daughter. And it's like,
Speaker 2: you were about to serve twenty five years for kidnapping,
Speaker 2: Like this motherfucker is pissing me off. And he like
Speaker 2: he thinks the cops sister will just like get him
Speaker 2: out of everything, Like come on, bro, so Ellis explains,
Speaker 2: for the next three years, you can only see your
Speaker 2: kids in a supervised setting and he has to move
Speaker 2: out of the apartment and get his own place. He
Speaker 2: looks at Benson and goes, this is the best he
Speaker 2: could do, and it's like, seems pretty good to me.
Speaker 2: And then Benson says, it's better than your daughter visiting
Speaker 2: you in jail.
Speaker 3: Again.
Speaker 2: You were looking at twenty five years. You're serving sixty years.
Speaker 2: You'll still get to see your children, just supervised. Like,
Speaker 2: I am shocked that Simon is acting like this. That's
Speaker 2: like what is annoying is like he's He's like, I
Speaker 2: was just trying to do the right. It's you did
Speaker 2: a dumb thing.
Speaker 3: Like yeah, he doesn't really take any responsibility. The judge
Speaker 3: will revisit that. This is even amazing. The judge will
Speaker 3: revisit in one year if he doesn't violate his parole.
Speaker 3: He shocked.
Speaker 2: Tracy went along with this, and it's like, yeah, what
Speaker 2: are the other options for kids sit in foster care? Yeah,
Speaker 2: so that he says, well, we're getting married, and Ellis goes,
Speaker 2: not right now, Tracy needs some time. He gets up
Speaker 2: to leave, and he's like, that's it to medicine. So
Speaker 2: she keeps looking at him, and he's like, I really
Speaker 2: thought I could get the right this time. She goes,
Speaker 2: I know, and they hold hands and she goes me too,
Speaker 2: and uh tears well up in his eyes and that's
Speaker 2: dick wolf baby. And now I'm like, so, I mean,
Speaker 2: I know the names of the cases. They're famous cases,
Speaker 2: but I'm really interested in the details.
Speaker 3: Whatever.
Speaker 1: Yeah, then we yeah, and we also don't see Simon
Speaker 1: now for like nine more seasons, Like that's goodbye.
Speaker 3: That's a wrap. That's a wrap on Simon for nine seasons.
Speaker 1: So you know there was two like there was another
Speaker 1: case being floated around that this was like about, but
Speaker 1: that person has never been that's a kidnapping that the
Speaker 1: person's ever been found. So I'm just going to focus
Speaker 1: on like the one major case that I think this
Speaker 1: is about, which is the JC DO Guard case. And
Speaker 1: I've heard of this and I guess I just I
Speaker 1: think I thought a lot of this case was what
Speaker 1: happened to Elizabeth Smart, Yeah, but it's not. It happened
Speaker 1: to JC D Guard first. So first to get into
Speaker 1: this story, let's get some backstory on Philip Garrito.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy two, when he's nineteen years old, Philip Garrido,
Speaker 1: a California native, is arrested in charged with repeatedly raping
Speaker 1: a fourteen year old girl after drugging her, but the
Speaker 1: case never goes to trial after the girl declines to testify. Okay,
Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy six, he kidnaps twenty five year old
Speaker 1: Catherine Callaway in South Lake Tahoe, California, sexual assault her
Speaker 1: for over five hours in a reno warehouse. Luckily, a
Speaker 1: fucking cop noticed a car and went up and knocked
Speaker 1: on the door, and when he opened it, the girl
Speaker 1: was like help, and so he was arrested.
Speaker 3: He got court ordered psychical.
Speaker 1: He was diagnosed as a sexual deviant and chronic drug abuser,
Speaker 1: as he frequently abused meth and LSD, and he was
Speaker 1: convicted in nineteen seventy seven. He was sentenced to fifty
Speaker 1: years in a federal prison. Awesome, right, No, what do
Speaker 1: we know about the seventies and eighties and fucking jail sentences?
Speaker 1: They basically the numbers are all made up and make
Speaker 1: no sense. So after eleven years, he's released to Nevada
Speaker 1: so that he can serve a five year to life
Speaker 1: sentence there. He does seven months of that. Okay, so
Speaker 1: he's done eleven years and some change on this sentence.
Speaker 2: And if this is after raping a woman, yes, for
Speaker 2: holding a woman and raping her.
Speaker 1: For multiple hours, yeah yeah, yeah, kidnapping her like removing
Speaker 1: her from a place like yeah.
Speaker 5: So he.
Speaker 1: Is released and so the in his first sentence at
Speaker 1: the federal institution, he did meet he did.
Speaker 3: There was a romance Okay.
Speaker 1: He met his wife, Nancy, who met him in prison
Speaker 1: because she was there visiting an uncle or something. They
Speaker 1: got married while he was in prison, and then when
Speaker 1: he got out, he moved with Nancy in with his
Speaker 1: elderly mother in Antioch, California. So he was ordered to
Speaker 1: wear like a GPS enabled inkle monitor and regularly check
Speaker 1: in with his parole officer like he had.
Speaker 3: Interactions with law enforcement a lot.
Speaker 1: Okay, So now let's talk about September nineteen ninety, ten
Speaker 1: year old Jac Duguard moves with her mother's stepfather and
Speaker 1: half sister from Arcadia in Los Angeles, where I enjoy
Speaker 1: the mall frequently to a town about seven miles south
Speaker 1: of Southlake Tahoe, where I've also been, and I.
Speaker 3: Love Southlake Tahoe. It's so beautiful because they wanted to
Speaker 3: move somewhere safer. Okay.
Speaker 1: Nine months later, it's June tenth of nineteen ninety one,
Speaker 1: eleven year old Jac leaves for school. She walks up
Speaker 1: the hill to where the bus stop is, the school
Speaker 1: bus stop, and when she's halfway up the hill, this
Speaker 1: grace car with two people in it, like kind of you,
Speaker 1: turns around and stops and stops beside her, and she
Speaker 1: thinks they need directions, and sadly, the person driving the
Speaker 1: car is at this point forty year old Philip Gurrito
Speaker 1: and Nancy, his wife, who's riding shotgun. He rolls down
Speaker 1: his window tases Jac with a stun gun. She goes unconscious.
Speaker 1: Nancy drags her into the car takes off all of
Speaker 1: her clothing. The only item they forgot to remove was
Speaker 1: a butter fly shaped ring, which she went on to
Speaker 1: like hide from them for a long time. So what's
Speaker 1: crazy is Jac's stepfather, Carl Probin. He sees the whole
Speaker 1: kidnapping and he jumps on his mountain bike and tries
Speaker 1: to like bike after them, but he can't catch up
Speaker 1: to them.
Speaker 3: They're too fast, so uh yeah, it's like really terrible.
Speaker 1: And then he becomes a suspect, as does Jac's biological father,
Speaker 1: Ken Slayton, but he gets cleared pretty quick. And Carl
Speaker 1: the stepfather, like, by the way, he wasn't the only witness.
Speaker 1: There were kids at the bus stop who witnessed it
Speaker 1: as well. So like the stepfather, I think did a
Speaker 1: couple of like compulsory like polygraphs, but he passed.
Speaker 3: Them all and like he was cleared pretty quickly as well.
Speaker 1: But Carl and jc's mother, Terry, their marriage did not
Speaker 1: survive the abduction. He later told CBS News, losing JC
Speaker 1: ended the marriage between us. We've never had a fight.
Speaker 1: We're best friends right now. But losing JC just changed
Speaker 1: her life. So it's not the same as being remarried
Speaker 1: like what happened to the other person.
Speaker 3: But they did.
Speaker 1: Their marriage did break up like pretty quickly, I think
Speaker 1: after it was done. So meanwhile, JC gets driven three
Speaker 1: hours to the Grido's home in Antioch, California. She's in
Speaker 1: and out of consciousness. Nancy's like holding her down underneath
Speaker 1: a blanket. She begs them to let her go. She's like,
Speaker 1: my parents won't have any money to pay for a
Speaker 1: ransom behind their home. It's exactly what I think of
Speaker 1: when I think of Elizabeth Smart's thing, or like even no,
Speaker 1: like the turbans, I feel like I think of them
Speaker 1: being inside, but like Elizabeth Smart, I think of being
Speaker 1: in like tents and sheds and like ramshackle kind of structures.
Speaker 3: That's like the whole backyard.
Speaker 1: And there are pictures if you want to click on
Speaker 1: some of my show note links where you can see
Speaker 1: what like the back looked like, and they put JC
Speaker 1: into this very small shed that had been soundproofd. He
Speaker 1: handcuffed her naked in the shed and told her that
Speaker 1: there were trained Doberman's outside that would attack her if
Speaker 1: she tried to escape, and he bolted the door shut.
Speaker 1: That first week, he forced her to take a shower
Speaker 1: with him. She had never seen like a grown naked
Speaker 1: man before. She was always handcuffed and Gerrito was the
Speaker 1: only person she saw. He brought her fast food, talked
Speaker 1: with her, and he gave her a bucket to go
Speaker 1: to the bathroom in. And a week into the kidnapping
Speaker 1: is the first time.
Speaker 2: Were they looking for her or did they have the
Speaker 2: setup for any random person they could snatch?
Speaker 3: Good question.
Speaker 1: The district attorney who tries them later believes that Nancy
Speaker 1: found him found her, excuse me, and like brought her
Speaker 1: brought like like they captured Like it was like a
Speaker 1: prize for him.
Speaker 3: So yeah, Nancy's not good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So it's like it's sort of believed obviously that
Speaker 1: this wasn't just like a random like let's see who
Speaker 1: we can grab, like that they had like the idea
Speaker 1: for her, And although he had like later confessed to
Speaker 1: like masturbating outside of elementary schools all the time, Like
Speaker 1: I mean, he's just like disgusting, So it's possible he
Speaker 1: like saw her and she like then Nancy did the
Speaker 1: reconnaissance like who knows, So a week into the kidnapping,
Speaker 1: he rapes her and then he continues to do that
Speaker 1: at least once a week for three years, and eventually
Speaker 1: he gave her a TV, but she wasn't allowed to
Speaker 1: watch the news, and she had no clue that anybody
Speaker 1: was searching for her, and she said later that she
Speaker 1: watched a lot of QVC, so like at the beginning,
Speaker 1: it was like only QBC. So about six weeks into
Speaker 1: the kidnapping, he moved her from the shed into a
Speaker 1: larger room, where he handcuffed her to the bed. He
Speaker 1: told her that demon angels let him take her so
Speaker 1: that she could help him with his sexual debancy, so
Speaker 1: like he knew he had some kind of problem. And
Speaker 1: by the way, his father always said that he was
Speaker 1: like a perfectly normal, good kid, but then he got
Speaker 1: into a motorcycle accident and that's where he went. So
Speaker 1: it's possible this man has a brain injury that is
Speaker 1: count contributing to his horrible drug abuse and sexual deviancy.
Speaker 1: I have no idea, he told her, Basically, you're helping
Speaker 1: other people because if I have you, I'm not going
Speaker 1: to do this to other people.
Speaker 3: So super fucked.
Speaker 1: He would go on these drug binges that he called runs,
Speaker 1: and they would last for days. He would force jac
Speaker 1: to perform sex acts on him and ask her to
Speaker 1: listen for the voices that he could hear, like coming
Speaker 1: from the walls and stuff, and he told her he
Speaker 1: was like a chosen servant of God. And then at
Speaker 1: the end of the drug run, he would cry and
Speaker 1: apologize to her, but then also threaten to sell her
Speaker 1: to even worse people, like I'm going to sell you
Speaker 1: to people that are going to put you in a
Speaker 1: cage and stuff like that. So then seven months into
Speaker 1: the kidnapping, Gurrido introduces jac to Nancy, So she doesn't
Speaker 1: see Nancy the first seven months, and I don't know
Speaker 1: if he's like studied this or what this is, but
Speaker 1: he's basically like forming a bond with her, but also
Speaker 1: torturing her to the point that she is like really
Speaker 1: really hoping for Nancy's approval and love right, like, oh
Speaker 1: my God, a mother figure, you know, like a woman,
Speaker 1: And so Nancy brings her a stuffed animal and chocolate
Speaker 1: milk and also cries and apologizes to her. But it
Speaker 1: turns out Nancy is just as horrible and manipultave as
Speaker 1: her husband. She basically vacillates between motherly comfort and insane
Speaker 1: cruelty to this girl. She's very jealous of Jc because
Speaker 1: of like obviously the attention that the husband gives her
Speaker 1: and Nancy much like in the episode, she's not a
Speaker 1: nurse in like a baby nurse, but she's an in
Speaker 1: home aid like a nursing aid. So at one point,
Speaker 1: when Garrito failed a drug test, he went back to
Speaker 1: prison briefly and she took over as Jac's captor. Like
Speaker 1: she could have released her at that point, but she
Speaker 1: or say, oh my god, she escaped. I don't know
Speaker 1: what to do, but just kept her while he was
Speaker 1: in jail. A neighbor said that he met Jac at
Speaker 1: one point through the fence and she said her name
Speaker 1: was Jac and that she lived there. She never saw
Speaker 1: a doctor, she never saw a dentist. And another like
Speaker 1: insane psychological torture thing they did to her was twice
Speaker 1: they gave her kittens, but then the cats would like
Speaker 1: disappear without a word, like they would just like take
Speaker 1: the cats away and do god knows what. But she
Speaker 1: was never permitted to say or write her full name
Speaker 1: because she had like a journal she kept about the kittens,
Speaker 1: and one time she wrote her full name down and
Speaker 1: they were like rip out that page, and she was
Speaker 1: told that she could never say or write her name
Speaker 1: down ever again, her full name. So about three years
Speaker 1: into her kidnapping, he puts up like an eight foot
Speaker 1: tall fence around the backyard and a tent for her,
Speaker 1: and that's when she's finally allowed to walk around outside
Speaker 1: without handcuffs for periods of time. She still locked in
Speaker 1: the bolted room for like the rest of the time,
Speaker 1: but they let her. You know, it's kind of like
Speaker 1: what with Colleen stan right, Like after this period of time,
Speaker 1: she was allowed some freedom. She was even allowed to
Speaker 1: go back and see her family. So he's allowing her freedom.
Speaker 1: And then the Gurridos tell JC when she's around thirteen,
Speaker 1: two and a half years into the kidnapping, that they
Speaker 1: thought she was pregnant, and she knew she was gaining weight,
Speaker 1: but she didn't know why, right, so she would watch
Speaker 1: TV shows about childbirth to like prepare because she knew,
Speaker 1: like a doctor was not going to be helping her,
Speaker 1: like she was gonna have to like just give birth
Speaker 1: with just these two insane people. So in August of
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety four, when she was fourteen years old, she
Speaker 1: gave birth to her daughter. After this, he slowed down
Speaker 1: on like the habitual rapes, he would still do it
Speaker 1: on his drug binges, and then the last time he
Speaker 1: sexually assaulted JC led to the conception of her second daughter,
Speaker 1: who was born in nineteen ninety seven when JC was seventeen.
Speaker 1: So JC basically parents her children, learning information she gathers
Speaker 1: from the television. She planted a garden and flowers. She
Speaker 1: homeschools her kids. She tries to protect them from Grito,
Speaker 1: who's still a drug crazed, ranting maniac. He demanded that
Speaker 1: the girls refer to Nancy as their mother and that
Speaker 1: JAC is their older sister. I kind of read some
Speaker 1: conflicting reports that that's like what the girls actually thought,
Speaker 1: that they actually thought JAC was their sister, their older sister,
Speaker 1: and not their mom, and whenever they met other people,
Speaker 1: they had to keep up that whole charade.
Speaker 3: That like this is their mom and these you know,
Speaker 3: these are the three sisters.
Speaker 1: So Garrito ran a print shop and jac worked as
Speaker 1: a graphic artist for him at the print shop, and
Speaker 1: customers said she did great work. She had interactions with
Speaker 1: customers who said they never noticed anything weird. She never
Speaker 1: told anyone who she was or like that she was
Speaker 1: abducted and at the shop she had access to a
Speaker 1: phone in an email, but she never used them to escape.
Speaker 1: And I mean, we saw this again with Colleen stan
Speaker 1: There's a lot of reasons for that. But also she
Speaker 1: has her two children, Like she if she's not with
Speaker 1: the children, she's not gonna call and possibly get picked
Speaker 1: up by the police, and then what happens to her kids.
Speaker 3: Like he could just kill them, Like so she's too
Speaker 3: scared to ever do that.
Speaker 1: On at least two occasions, law enforcement comes to the
Speaker 1: home but never asks to see the backyard and never
Speaker 1: saw any signs of JC or her kids. The police
Speaker 1: never kidnapped, never connected Sorry that the kidnap and rape
Speaker 1: that Garrido committed in nineteen seventy six. He also took
Speaker 1: that victim from South Lake Tahoe, which is only minutes
Speaker 1: away from where Jay c was taken, and I know
Speaker 1: there's like fifteen years between those, but you would kind
Speaker 1: of think this is like a small rural area. Let's
Speaker 1: like look into some past cases and maybe see if
Speaker 1: there's any or maybe just like check the yard, yeah,
Speaker 1: or maybe like check and see if there were any
Speaker 1: paroles around the area, like when I mean, if it's
Speaker 1: supposed to be a fucking ankle bracelet that is monitorable anyway,
Speaker 1: In two thousand and six, fifteen years into her abduction,
Speaker 1: all seem yeah, fifteen years, oh my god, fifteen years
Speaker 1: into production of one of the neighbors calls nine one
Speaker 1: one to say that there's kids living in these tents
Speaker 1: in the back of the property and that he's a
Speaker 1: fucking psycho sex addict. The cops came, they talked to
Speaker 1: him for thirty minutes, and then they left and said, like,
Speaker 1: you're gonna get fined if you have anyone living in
Speaker 1: that backyard. So finally, in August of two thousand and nine,
Speaker 1: Garrido stops by the San Francisco office of the FBI. Okay,
Speaker 1: he leaves a four page essay about religion and sexuality
Speaker 1: and how he's figured out how to solve the problems
Speaker 1: that caused his past crimes, and he could help cure
Speaker 1: other sexual predators. All you have to do is kidnap
Speaker 1: one young child and make her your sex slave, and
Speaker 1: then you won't hurt other people. That's basically, And he's
Speaker 1: saying he's cured because he did stop sexually assaulting her
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety seven, so he has not sexually assaulted
Speaker 1: her now in twelve years. But it's just beyond So
Speaker 1: he swings after that, he swings by UC Berkeley, and
Speaker 1: he's got Jac's two daughters with him, okay, who at
Speaker 1: the time are eleven and fifteen, and they're his daughters
Speaker 1: as well. They're eleven and fifteen at this point, and
Speaker 1: he's asking Berkeley about coming to host to talk about
Speaker 1: God and all these crazy fucking ideas, and the event manager,
Speaker 1: this woman, Lisa Campbell, is like, this man is reading
Speaker 1: fully bonkers, and she's concerned.
Speaker 3: About the daughters.
Speaker 1: Like she's like, why don't you leave your name, make
Speaker 1: an appointment, leave your name and like for the next day,
Speaker 1: and then she calls authorities officer Ali Jacobs.
Speaker 3: Finally a mother, a woman runs away. What did I
Speaker 3: do with the letter? I don't even know, if they
Speaker 3: just like chopped it up to it being a crank.
Speaker 1: Maybe they didn't even look at it until this all
Speaker 1: came out later, but that just kind of, you know,
Speaker 1: like it's yeah, I don't know. So this woman officer,
Speaker 1: Ali Jacobs, she runs a background check and discovers that
Speaker 1: he's a registered sex offender on federal parole for kidnapping
Speaker 1: and rape. And when Gerrito and the girls come back
Speaker 1: for their appointment the next day, the off or attended
Speaker 1: the appointment as well, and she said the girls looked pale,
Speaker 1: like they hadn't been exposed to sunlight. Their behavior was unusual,
Speaker 1: and then she called Grito's PO to relay her concerns.
Speaker 1: So two POS parole officers drive to the Grito's house
Speaker 1: later that day.
Speaker 3: They cut his name didn't sound so close to Douredo.
Speaker 1: I know. They cuff Gurrito. They searched the house. They
Speaker 1: find only Nancy and his elderly mother at home. I'm like, damn,
Speaker 1: the mom is still alive. They've been there with her
Speaker 1: for like twenty years. Like I didn't realize that she
Speaker 1: would still be alive. The parole agents then drove him
Speaker 1: to the parole office and he told the cops that
Speaker 1: the girls are the relative, the children of a relative,
Speaker 1: and he had permission to take them to Berkeley. And
Speaker 1: even though he was not allowed to associate with miners,
Speaker 1: and Berkeley was fifteen miles beyond the area that he
Speaker 1: is allowed to travel as a parole, the parole officers
Speaker 1: did nothing. They dropped him back off at home and
Speaker 1: told him to report to the office next day to
Speaker 1: discuss the Berkeley visit and follow up about the two girls,
Speaker 1: but they like allowed him another night in his home.
Speaker 1: He arrives at the parole office in Concord, California, on
Speaker 1: August twenty sixth with Nancy, the two girls, and Jac
Speaker 1: who he's introducing as Alyssa, and the parole officer decides,
Speaker 1: I'm going to separate the women and the girls from
Speaker 1: Garrito to speak to them. He like, Jac's still calling
Speaker 1: herself Alyssa. She's like and she told them that the
Speaker 1: girls were her daughters, and she told them that she
Speaker 1: knew that Garita was a sex offender, but that he's
Speaker 1: a changed man and a great person and he's good
Speaker 1: with her kids. And the girls agreed, they're like, we
Speaker 1: like him. So when they questioned Jac to verify her
Speaker 1: identity more. She got very annoyed and defensive and was like,
Speaker 1: why am I being interrogated? And she claimed like, I'm
Speaker 1: a battered wife from Minnesota and I'm hiding from my
Speaker 1: abusive husband, and you know, this man's taken me in
Speaker 1: and blah blah blah. The parole officer eventually called the
Speaker 1: conquered police, and when they arrived, Garto just admitted to
Speaker 1: the kidnapping and rape. I don't know, like, I don't
Speaker 1: even know if he was just like the jig is up,
Speaker 1: or maybe he's just like so batshit that he's just like,
Speaker 1: let me explain to you. And he tried to tell
Speaker 1: people I've registered my thoughts with the FBI, which is
Speaker 1: like leaving a four page basically like manifesto confessing to
Speaker 1: sexual predation.
Speaker 2: I mean, if he didn't confess, I wonder if these
Speaker 2: girls would ever have been saved.
Speaker 1: I know, because here's what happens. Girito and Nancy get arrested,
Speaker 1: and only once they're arrested does jac finally identify herself
Speaker 1: as jc do guard and says that she was scared
Speaker 1: her children will be taken if she didn't keep up
Speaker 1: the story and an FBI agent lets her talk to
Speaker 1: her mom, Terry Proben, immediately on the phone. They reunite
Speaker 1: like a day later, on August twenty seven, two thousand
Speaker 1: and nine, and she'd been missing for eighteen years. Taken
Speaker 1: at eleven, found at twenty nine. So Jace was like,
Speaker 1: you know a lot of people have said, oh, she
Speaker 1: it was possibly suffering from Stockholm syndrome. But she did
Speaker 1: this big interview with ABC News in twenty sixteen, and
Speaker 1: she said that compassion and willingness to interact with Grito
Speaker 1: were her only means of surviving.
Speaker 3: It's like very Olivia benstencoded. It's like she did what
Speaker 3: she had to do.
Speaker 1: She survived, And she says, quote the phrase Stockholm syndrome
Speaker 1: implies that hostages cracked by terror and abuse become affectionate
Speaker 1: towards their captors. Well, it's really it's degrading, you know,
Speaker 1: having my family believe that I was in love with
Speaker 1: this captor and wanted to stay with him. I mean,
Speaker 1: that is so far from the truth that it makes
Speaker 1: me want to throw up. I adapted to survive my circumstance.
Speaker 1: And she repeatedly stated that victims are forced to sympathize
Speaker 1: with their captors as a way to survive. And she
Speaker 1: also said, quote he was always my captor. I never
Speaker 1: forgot that.
Speaker 3: Never.
Speaker 1: But she did like have a bond with Grito and
Speaker 1: sorted her kids. They cried when he was arrested, and
Speaker 1: a few weeks after she was free, she asked if
Speaker 1: she could have the pets from the home that had
Speaker 1: been living at the home, and you know, she was
Speaker 1: somewhat attached to, like the life that she'd been living
Speaker 1: for eighteen years. Shortly after his arrest, Garrito told KCRATV
Speaker 1: Sacramento in a jailhouse phone interview, quote in the end,
Speaker 1: this is going to be a powerful, heartwarming story end quote.
Speaker 1: And he told them like all about how he turned
Speaker 1: his life around, how he loved his daughters and he
Speaker 1: never harmed them, and his whole life changed once they
Speaker 1: were born. And like, I mean, similar to the end
Speaker 1: of the store of the episode where he's like, I
Speaker 1: mean a lot to these girls, like we actually had
Speaker 1: a great family or whatever. So Nancy's bail gets set
Speaker 1: at thirty million. Garrito is not given bail, duh. And
Speaker 1: on April twenty eight, twenty eleven, there's some back and
Speaker 1: forth where like first they say they're gonna plead guilty,
Speaker 1: they plead not guilty. But eventually, on April twenty eight,
Speaker 1: twenty eleven, the Grito's plead guilty to kidnapping and rape
Speaker 1: by force. He is sentenced to four hundred and thirty
Speaker 1: one years to life. Nancy is sentenced to thirty six
Speaker 1: years to life. I read that she's eligible for parole
Speaker 1: in August of twenty twenty nine, although another source that
Speaker 1: I read said that they can both be up for
Speaker 1: parole in twenty thirty four.
Speaker 3: So well, we got to start.
Speaker 1: Writing yeah, we're gonna yeah, Like I started a letter
Speaker 1: writing campaign. I'm sorry you guys are not allowed out ever,
Speaker 1: Like you got your chance of evading a fifty year sentence,
Speaker 1: you got out of eleven years and you did unspeakable
Speaker 1: fucking crimes. So and the woman, it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know, It's like, I know, we have like
Speaker 1: a lot of conversations about the abuse that like accomplices
Speaker 1: you know, can sort of yeah, but like she was
Speaker 1: like only with him for like a year when they
Speaker 1: kidnapped JC, so she was just and she met him
Speaker 1: in jail knowing that he was in there for Roace. Yes, yes, exactly, Yeah,
Speaker 1: she knowingly married a rapist in jail, in a jail
Speaker 1: house wedding. So after j C was found alive, the
Speaker 1: Contra Costa County Sheriff, which is where Antioch is, Warren E.
Speaker 1: Erupp he issued it apology to the victims in a
Speaker 1: news conference.
Speaker 3: Were people fired? Were officers fired? Well?
Speaker 1: On November fourth of two thousand and nine, the California
Speaker 1: Office of the Inspector General issued a report then enumerated
Speaker 1: lapses by the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation that
Speaker 1: had contributed to Jac's continued captivity. The central finding was
Speaker 1: that he was incorrectly classified as needing only low level supervision,
Speaker 1: and then every other lapse that happened after that.
Speaker 3: Was born from that massive mistake.
Speaker 1: So in the report the General the Inspector General even
Speaker 1: talked about a point at which a Pearle agent encountered
Speaker 1: a twelve year old girl at the home but accepted
Speaker 1: Gurto's explanation that she was his niece and did nothing
Speaker 1: to verify that. And even when Garrido's brother verified that
Speaker 1: he did not have any children. But I thought that
Speaker 1: was too fucking hard. To pick up the phone and
Speaker 1: find out, like does this man have a niece? Like
Speaker 1: there are public records of people's family members. So there's
Speaker 1: just so many instances of the cat being like right
Speaker 1: there or like not figuring out, and it's like he
Speaker 1: is a rapist, like he should not be.
Speaker 3: He's not.
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess if his trial of the fourteen
Speaker 1: year old had gone to trial, they would be more
Speaker 1: because the woman that he attacked was twenty five, So
Speaker 1: maybe they thought, oh, kids aren't really his mo but
Speaker 1: they are.
Speaker 3: He's insane. So she sued the State of California.
Speaker 1: Good for her and since this psycho was on parol
Speaker 1: with them when she was abducted, and the numerous lapses
Speaker 1: by law enforcement who could have discovered her in captivity
Speaker 1: but did not. In July of twenty ten, she got
Speaker 1: a settlement of twenty million dollars, which is the equivalent
Speaker 1: of twenty eight million in twenty twenty four.
Speaker 3: I read.
Speaker 1: Jac has done horse therapy, among other things, to process
Speaker 1: her trauma. She's written two books. One is called A
Speaker 1: Stolen Life, a memoir and was published in twenty eleven,
Speaker 1: and then Freedom, my book of first in twenty sixteen.
Speaker 1: She learned to drive, she adopted pets. She started checking
Speaker 1: off items from a bucket list that she wrote when
Speaker 1: she was in captivity, like swimming with dolphins, writing in
Speaker 1: a hot air balloon, and going to see pyramids in Belize.
Speaker 1: She told ABC News she's mostly stepped out of public life,
Speaker 1: but she occasionally reappears, like speaking at events and fundraising
Speaker 1: on Facebook, like her foundation that she started raised funds
Speaker 1: to support the Urpin Children, and in May of twenty
Speaker 1: twenty two, she joined Elizabeth Smart in a panel on
Speaker 1: trauma responses for the Malouf Foundation. So she's appeared to
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Smart, but her kidnapping was eighteen years and Elizabeth Smart,
Speaker 1: I believe was gone for one year. So it's like
Speaker 1: and I don't think Elizabeth Smart was impregnated, but it's
Speaker 1: just like so horrific. And that's the details of JC Dugard.
Speaker 1: Our guest today is an actor who you've seen in
Speaker 1: movies like Pathology, State of Play, and Garden State. You've
Speaker 1: also seen him recurring on shows like Scrubs and House,
Speaker 1: but you know him best as Olivia Benson's dipshit brother Simon.
Speaker 1: Please enjoy our interview with the lovely Michael Weston.
Speaker 3: Let's get into this.
Speaker 1: How did you How did you end up in like
Speaker 1: the Sview universe because you did three episodes of season
Speaker 1: eight at where there's like the Discovery of Simon did.
Speaker 4: Like over a span of like twenty Yeah, there's like.
Speaker 1: The Discovery assignment, and then five seasons later they're like
Speaker 1: Simon's gonna lose his kids, and then eight season, nine
Speaker 1: seasons later.
Speaker 3: They're like Simon's dead.
Speaker 1: This yeah, like he just kept getting wrong accusation after
Speaker 1: wrong accusation, but then also making really stupid decisions in response.
Speaker 4: Yeah, he was a their tough and he never really
Speaker 4: got a leg up.
Speaker 5: I don't know how I got involved in it, Like,
Speaker 5: you know, it's just one of those I think, like
Speaker 5: every New York actor finally does SVU.
Speaker 4: It's just like it has to happen for you. It's
Speaker 4: like right past.
Speaker 1: But when you got the audition, was it always for
Speaker 1: like Olivia Benson's brother, because that must have felt like
Speaker 1: pretty bigger than like guy who is a witness whatever.
Speaker 4: You know, I had no idea what it was.
Speaker 5: Honestly, I hadn't even seen the show, and like I
Speaker 5: got offered the role and was like, oh yeah.
Speaker 4: Shooting in New York because I was living in LA
Speaker 4: and I was like, yeah, let's go.
Speaker 5: And so I had a ball doing it because it's
Speaker 5: so rare these days that you get to shoot in
Speaker 5: New York or LA.
Speaker 4: You're always shooting somewhere else.
Speaker 5: So so anytime I get to work in New York,
Speaker 5: I'm excited and uh and this is like the quintessential
Speaker 5: New York show. So as you're you know, I don't
Speaker 5: think i'd watched an episode of of SVU, even though
Speaker 5: I'd seen.
Speaker 4: Like, you know, all the other law and orders over time,
Speaker 4: and but.
Speaker 5: It's it's one of those things that if you live
Speaker 5: in New York, it's just like it's always shooting down
Speaker 5: your block and you're like, oh, that's.
Speaker 4: Traffic, and you got an offer, and I got an offer,
Speaker 4: you offer it to me on New York. I'm gone,
Speaker 4: I'm on the plane, let's go.
Speaker 3: Do you got stopped by people? Because I do, Yeah,
Speaker 3: I do.
Speaker 5: If they can put together the goatee, especially, they're like, yeah,
Speaker 5: I mean yeah, I think that show has I mean people,
Speaker 5: you know, the beauty of that show is that it
Speaker 5: actually like changes people's lives, like it like, you know,
Speaker 5: people like it touches them and gets them, you know,
Speaker 5: in their guts and so and so what I always
Speaker 5: refined astounding about it is that people are like really
Speaker 5: moved by it all, and so they you know, they
Speaker 5: they speak sort of passionately and truthfully about it, and
Speaker 5: and it stops me in my try.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 5: It's one of those things I always feel as an actor,
Speaker 5: you're so you're so lucky to do this period.
Speaker 4: But then if you know, if anyone cares about your
Speaker 4: work and all that, it's you know, it's big bonus.
Speaker 2: So it's yeah, and Simon's journey is tough, and I'm
Speaker 2: sure people relate to it. And that final episode, like Mauritia,
Speaker 2: I mean, Olivia Benson's going to live with that guilt forever.
Speaker 2: She is.
Speaker 3: She is that voice Smail was me.
Speaker 5: She really, you know, she was sort of there for
Speaker 5: me and then she was like not there for twenty years,
Speaker 5: so and then she was there for me for like
Speaker 5: a second when I had my kid, and yeah, it
Speaker 5: was really you know, it was funny we had I
Speaker 5: remember that the first go around of those first episodes
Speaker 5: because it was so you know, it's such like heightened
Speaker 5: drama and like I've I've done terrible things, but I
Speaker 5: haven't done terrible things, but I maybe I did sort
Speaker 5: of do terrible.
Speaker 4: Things, and I'm like, I'm not a great guy.
Speaker 5: And then I'm holding everyone at gunpoint and everyone's yelling
Speaker 5: at each other and it was really fun.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you got to do Kim Delaney episode.
Speaker 4: And she was the bad one, wasn't she there? Yeah,
Speaker 4: I haven't forgiven her.
Speaker 3: Set you up.
Speaker 1: When I was looking you up, obviously doing some digging
Speaker 1: for this, I was seeing that you come from like
Speaker 1: this long line of musicians and piano players and like
Speaker 1: virtuosos and stuff like what and then severe to acting
Speaker 1: like what tell us the story of that?
Speaker 4: Yeah? Yeah.
Speaker 5: My grandfather was Arthur Rubinstein, like very very famous concert
Speaker 5: pianist and amazing and sort of like I didn't know
Speaker 5: much about it until I was like ten, eleven, twelve,
Speaker 5: and he was just sort of my grandfather, but he's this,
Speaker 5: you know, he's sort of iconic pianist, sort of one
Speaker 5: of the greats.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and so that that's part of that, you know,
Speaker 4: it's a sort of peripheral part of my life, but
Speaker 4: a big part of it, but more from a sort
Speaker 4: of familial standpoint.
Speaker 5: But like my dad was is an actor, John Rubinstein,
Speaker 5: and so he has done a lot of theater, and
Speaker 5: he did like he was like the original Pippin. He
Speaker 5: wanted Tony for Children of a Lesser God. Like he's
Speaker 5: a wonderful actor.
Speaker 3: The original Pippin.
Speaker 4: Wow.
Speaker 5: Yeah, like he's the old Guard and and still like
Speaker 5: right now, I just had dinner with him last night,
Speaker 5: and he's going he's gonna star in the musical tour
Speaker 5: of the Notebook.
Speaker 4: He's going for ten months at like, you know, eighty
Speaker 4: years old around and I'm like, wow, yeah, I know.
Speaker 5: So he So that's my That was my transition really
Speaker 5: as a kid. My dad found acting, musical theater, all
Speaker 5: that stuff. And so I grew up basically in New
Speaker 5: York City, and I would sort of spend a large
Speaker 5: chunk of my time backstage, you know, playing in like
Speaker 5: the Broadway Show League, like softball teams and hanging out
Speaker 5: with all these actors and you know, and uh and
Speaker 5: I I mean honestly, I didn't.
Speaker 4: I didn't. I wasn't gonna be my trajectory at all.
Speaker 4: I didn't. I wanted to play baseball, but.
Speaker 5: I was never realized I was not built for that
Speaker 5: and uh and so then like, yeah, when I got
Speaker 5: to school in Northwestern, I got into theater, but it
Speaker 5: was it was mostly through him, and he's you know,
Speaker 5: I I got to live backstage, and you see, what
Speaker 5: a sort of wonderful what a wonderful like life that is,
Speaker 5: the life of.
Speaker 4: A theater actor in New York is sort of amazing.
Speaker 3: Any back stage stories you can share, I mean.
Speaker 4: There's nothing, really, you know, nothing really amazing about that.
Speaker 4: I don't know. I you know, I think I sat
Speaker 4: on wonder Woman's lap and I embarrassed myself. That's about it.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh. Wait, your dad was the judge in
Speaker 3: the episode raw.
Speaker 4: Oh see, I tell you every New York actor is that.
Speaker 3: This is one of our favorite episodes. Michael. Oh really
Speaker 3: and the shoot he gets shot? Oh he gets shot,
Speaker 3: get shot.
Speaker 2: Yes, there's a there's like a Nazi shootout, White supremacist shootout.
Speaker 2: Belser gets shot. Like stay, Marcia gay Harden's in that episode.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, wow, wow, your dad shot in that one.
Speaker 2: Oh no, I'm sorry, it's a good one.
Speaker 1: And I quote your parole officer's parents haven't even been
Speaker 1: born yet.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, we say that around the famous around the house,
Speaker 4: slinging around.
Speaker 3: I can't believe it. So did you play piano as
Speaker 3: a kid?
Speaker 4: Yeah, poorly. I used to go to my piano teacher
Speaker 4: and I'd like, I'd try.
Speaker 5: I knew I had an hour there and it was
Speaker 5: like jail time, so I would like try and figure
Speaker 5: out how to like get through it without playing the piano.
Speaker 4: Which I never like practice. So I'd be like, Yo,
Speaker 4: I'm starving.
Speaker 5: Can I get like a like a PB and J
Speaker 5: And then like, I'm thirsty, could we like cook up
Speaker 5: like a little like you know, milkshake or like.
Speaker 4: A little what what?
Speaker 1: What?
Speaker 4: He got back there? But it was in the print.
Speaker 5: And then I'd sit there and try and talk to
Speaker 5: her about my life and like string it out and
Speaker 5: she's like, all right now we got to play some
Speaker 5: fucking scales.
Speaker 3: Tyll. Okay, wait back to the s VU of it all,
Speaker 3: because we obviously talk about So do you remember Andre
Speaker 3: Brower being on sete?
Speaker 4: Oh? Yeah, I loved him, I of I mean I
Speaker 4: had that one episode.
Speaker 5: I didn't know him before that, but we just hit
Speaker 5: it off because he's such a lovely fellow and.
Speaker 4: He's just one of those amazing actors who has.
Speaker 5: This like you know, like I was like a fan
Speaker 5: of his forever and you know, uh, and and he
Speaker 5: had just he was so humble and he was in
Speaker 5: this role on this you know, one episode of SVU.
Speaker 4: He had no ego about it.
Speaker 5: He was just like the life of the party and
Speaker 5: just like the kindest I just loved him and so
Speaker 5: we hit it off on that episode.
Speaker 1: And you're in this episode when he's playing your lawyer.
Speaker 1: His wife is the judge, his real life wife.
Speaker 4: Oh was that so I didn't even know that. Yeah,
Speaker 4: you're like in the room with like I had the
Speaker 4: whole Brower family.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you had the whole back and forth. It was.
Speaker 5: It's it's great working on those shows because you meet
Speaker 5: all these actors that have you know, just they they've
Speaker 5: all been in New York forever and so you you
Speaker 5: know so many different people, and you know, like, uh,
Speaker 5: it's the sort of hang outside of the shooting, like
Speaker 5: you you shoot your thing, but the hang outside of it,
Speaker 5: just being around New York and you have lunch somewhere
Speaker 5: outside of you know, catering, and you walk around the
Speaker 5: city and you're I don't know, I always love love
Speaker 5: working on those shows because you you have this sort
Speaker 5: of you know, alternative like backstage existence with.
Speaker 4: All the actors where you're all just like fucking around
Speaker 4: and having a good time. That's great. Have you been
Speaker 4: on set? Have you gotten to know any of the
Speaker 4: sort of peace some.
Speaker 3: Of the regulars on the on the pod? But I
Speaker 3: haven't been to the set.
Speaker 1: I mean the dream is when we finally interview Marishka,
Speaker 1: that we can go to see her in her workplace
Speaker 1: and oh.
Speaker 4: Yeah, she's the best. She's like the mother head of
Speaker 4: the place and she like is so professional, but.
Speaker 5: She takes care of everyone. I mean, at least in
Speaker 5: my working experience. So there was awesome and it felt
Speaker 5: like family and she uh, yeah, she's a great person.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 5: What's amazing is like she's been on that show forever
Speaker 5: and ninety nine percent of the actors would start phoning
Speaker 5: it in at some point.
Speaker 4: And she doesn't.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, like and she doesn't take any of
Speaker 5: it for granted, or any of the people that that
Speaker 5: you know, in my circles I was working with for granted.
Speaker 5: And so you have this I mean, that's why it
Speaker 5: continues in the way that it does because it's like,
Speaker 5: you know, the Captain of the ship is formidable, and
Speaker 5: she's passionate about it, and you know she's got her
Speaker 5: whole charity on the side and all that stuff. But
Speaker 5: I you know, she comes out here and does all
Speaker 5: these things with it, and it's she's the sort of
Speaker 5: amazing person to steerhead.
Speaker 4: Something like that.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think it's the only reason the show is
Speaker 6: still on. Honestly, Oh for sure, without a doubt. You
Speaker 6: can't do it and it's hard to keep up. Like
Speaker 6: it's a grind, that show, even if you're doing like
Speaker 6: three episodes of it in a.
Speaker 1: Row, like and then like in her free time, she's like,
Speaker 1: please let me do Broadway and then walked Aboudison Square
Speaker 1: Garden for the next.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah you heard that right. She had a two
Speaker 2: show days. So she did the matinee for that Wednesday
Speaker 2: game four. So she did the matinee, did her seven o'clock,
Speaker 2: shaved off four minutes off the play, and then I
Speaker 2: did ten blocks to the game to get their time.
Speaker 4: Dude, I love those stories. That's like such New York actresses.
Speaker 2: Well then people are like, can you imagine like seeing Muritia,
Speaker 2: I bet people like were losing their minds.
Speaker 5: Just like speaking so I have, like with my dad
Speaker 5: one time, because my dad was doing a show called
Speaker 5: k Mutiny Court Martial with this wonderful actor j O Sanders,
Speaker 5: another great actor who's probably been a SVU a ton,
Speaker 5: and and we wanted to see like Return of the Jedi.
Speaker 5: It was like a kid in between shows, and so
Speaker 5: like he did his matinee and then we ran across
Speaker 5: town and we watched like Return of the Jedi, and
Speaker 5: then like their show was starting. You have to be
Speaker 5: there for half hour, and they missed it, and they
Speaker 5: like literally like ran on stage, and I just love it.
Speaker 4: I love that.
Speaker 5: It's just like such a New York theater actor thing,
Speaker 5: being like what can I get away with this show?
Speaker 2: Well? Because also like obviously a Broadway schedule is very
Speaker 2: grueling and that's what it's known for. But then I'm thinking,
Speaker 2: I'm like, she's doing sixteen hour days. I'm sure like, yeah,
Speaker 2: Broadways kind of a chiller experience for her.
Speaker 4: It's certain, No, it's so much easier you kidding me.
Speaker 4: It's like you have your entire day.
Speaker 5: That's why, like the Broadway schedule is the best you have,
Speaker 5: Like you know, your two hour show at night and
Speaker 5: you have all day free and then you know, you
Speaker 5: just hang around.
Speaker 3: You gotta take care of your Like that's what I think. Yeah,
Speaker 3: night there Like the body and voice is yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: you get.
Speaker 5: Ragged, get ragged. Yeah, that that is that's the sort
Speaker 5: of anxiety behind it all.
Speaker 3: What are your go to on set snacks, my croft
Speaker 3: service moments?
Speaker 5: I like I like to like, you know, the hot
Speaker 5: food sort of offerings that come out. They're always a
Speaker 5: little collected, a little risky. You could you could find yourself,
Speaker 5: you know, regretting it later.
Speaker 4: But you know, I like living on the.
Speaker 5: Edge, so I'll take some of those hot offerings in
Speaker 5: the sort of mid the mid like late night meals
Speaker 5: like uh like a ta yeah, a tilapia and a
Speaker 5: little serving train. No I I never do the fish.
Speaker 5: I rarely do the fish. And that's just because of
Speaker 5: the movie Airplane and it has nothing to do for
Speaker 5: literally anything else. It's just because I have paranoia. No
Speaker 5: I you know, I go, I go sweets usually I go,
Speaker 5: I go. If there's a donut, I'm fucked.
Speaker 4: A donut will take me down immediately, and then uh yeah, goes,
Speaker 4: I'll go.
Speaker 5: I'll go.
Speaker 4: I'll do some I never eat candy but on set,
Speaker 4: I'll eat candy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like when they have like a big ass tub
Speaker 1: of those jelly bellies, I'm always say that's another one
Speaker 1: and another.
Speaker 4: It's like, right, you take.
Speaker 5: Sort of like some nuts take all of this and
Speaker 5: then now fuck do some jelly bellies and a handful
Speaker 5: of Eminem's.
Speaker 3: And that's true. We're all children at craft services.
Speaker 4: You regress.
Speaker 3: That's not your like rice Krispy Treats and candy.
Speaker 1: Wait, I'm just clopped in your IMDb that you were
Speaker 1: in Coyote Ugly, which is one of my favorite movies
Speaker 1: of all time.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, oh yeah, that's where I met Piper and
Speaker 5: Melanie too. Wonderful just friends and actresses and yeah, that
Speaker 5: was great.
Speaker 3: That was like one of my first Yeah, it was
Speaker 3: like I was looking it was one of your early
Speaker 3: your early gids.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I remember, Yeah, that was That was Jerry Bruckheimer
Speaker 5: and I and I only met him one time and
Speaker 5: then I saw him, I think when I was really
Speaker 5: drunk in Prague on another movie and and I reintroduced
Speaker 5: myself to him and he's like, it's it's Michael, It's
Speaker 5: I'm Jerry.
Speaker 4: And I was like, hasn't hired me, since what.
Speaker 3: Other SVU memories do you have of any of the epps?
Speaker 5: Oh gosh, you know, I was thinking of something today,
Speaker 5: but I realized it was on Elementary, which is sort
Speaker 5: of like those two things are like they meld to
Speaker 5: me because they're just all in New York and they
Speaker 5: had a sort of similar I was like a weird
Speaker 5: junkie on that that was like the nemesis of the
Speaker 5: and so like it all sort of.
Speaker 7: I was like Lucy Lou and we were No, it's
Speaker 7: not the same thing, Lucy directed, I mean, it connects
Speaker 7: all New Yorker's connected and SVU no matter what.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, you know, to me, it's so to me.
Speaker 5: Most of the sort of memories of that were you know,
Speaker 5: with Mariska and just sort of doing thing and just
Speaker 5: like you know, being a New York actor in New
Speaker 5: York and getting to sort of you know, tread the
Speaker 5: boards there and get a little.
Speaker 4: Piece of New York in your system for a while.
Speaker 5: That's that's usually where you know, shooting shooting there, you
Speaker 5: shooting all these sort of fun locations, and when you're
Speaker 5: shooting in the city, it's just the best. Yeah, And
Speaker 5: having grown up there, you you have a you know,
Speaker 5: you have a like a sort of professional idea of
Speaker 5: and a kid's perspective on it, and it's all the
Speaker 5: same building.
Speaker 3: You know, what neighborhood did you grow up in?
Speaker 4: I grew up on seventy six and West End. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 4: it was awesome, and it was like, you know, it
Speaker 4: was very sort of middle class. Now it's a little
Speaker 4: hoity tody. Yeah, it wasn't that. When I was growing up.
Speaker 4: The West Side was very just sort of chill.
Speaker 3: I lived on eighty yea, it was just like Jewish
Speaker 3: and chill.
Speaker 1: I lived on and Amsterdam for like eleven ar Yeah,
Speaker 1: oh really, yeah right.
Speaker 4: Those are my stopping bars.
Speaker 5: My mom lived right behind bars, and that was our
Speaker 5: go to and she used to like go I think
Speaker 5: she used to. I think she did when she was
Speaker 5: still living there. So I think I came for SVU
Speaker 5: and she we'd go to Zay Bars. We'd get like
Speaker 5: a coffee and like a ham and cheese croissan. We'd
Speaker 5: go down to the Riverside Park and she would like
Speaker 5: run lines with me, and that was that was our
Speaker 5: She was. She was an old actress and so if
Speaker 5: you ever saw the Fortune Cookie, she was an actress
Speaker 5: in that so she used to she stopped acting, but
Speaker 5: she used to run all my lines and sort of
Speaker 5: got me into this thing.
Speaker 3: So nice.
Speaker 4: I know, it's cute.
Speaker 1: When you did these first eight episod these first three
Speaker 1: episodes of season eight ones, did you work with Christopher
Speaker 1: Maloney too.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, for sure he was. I met him up
Speaker 4: in Williamstown, which is another staple of New York sort
Speaker 4: of the best like young theater.
Speaker 5: Yeah he was, you know, yeah, we we worked on that.
Speaker 5: I think the first go around. I don't remember him
Speaker 5: from the other ones. Maybe he was off the show
Speaker 5: by that time, but.
Speaker 1: He I met him up, like he left in season twelve,
Speaker 1: So your last two episodes he would have been gone,
Speaker 1: but those first three were you're introduced.
Speaker 4: Yeah, first three I was. He was definitely there.
Speaker 5: He was great and he's a great, really funny, excellent actor.
Speaker 5: And yeah, I met him up in Williamstown, which is
Speaker 5: like the sort of summer theater of New York. But
Speaker 5: it's also just like it's a great place. It's a
Speaker 5: great place for like young actors to go. And I
Speaker 5: don't know if it is still, but it used to be.
Speaker 5: And uh, and like that's where I met like, like,
Speaker 5: you know, other wonderful like Catherine Hahn. I went to
Speaker 5: school there, but like she was up there, and Charlie
Speaker 5: Day and Jimmy Simpson and all these sort of really
Speaker 5: wonderful young actors would go up there and we'd work
Speaker 5: as like non equity and worship all the equity actors
Speaker 5: who want to be like them and uh and uh
Speaker 5: yeah that was a great place to do theater another
Speaker 5: sort of Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we've talked to other guests of dun Williams Town.
Speaker 3: Everybody always says, like, what a formative experience.
Speaker 4: It was so awesome. Scott Wolfe was up there in
Speaker 4: his like Heyday party five times.
Speaker 3: Yeah, all the girls were like, he was on my wall, man,
Speaker 3: he was on my wall. Oh yeah, I love that.
Speaker 3: You your mom would run lines.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, she's played like everyone that's you know, she's
Speaker 5: played like you know, like on that she was like,
Speaker 5: you know, killing me and like whatever, shooting me down,
Speaker 5: calling me.
Speaker 1: When they brought you back for season twenty one, were
Speaker 1: you like, all right, Simon's back in the mix and
Speaker 1: then like you read the script, Shit, I'm dead.
Speaker 3: I mean that it was.
Speaker 4: It was great to go.
Speaker 3: Back on it.
Speaker 4: And see everyone again and it was really fun. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I mean I can't.
Speaker 3: I don't.
Speaker 4: I mean I think I died pretty quickly on that.
Speaker 4: I sort I was like hi and then but uh,
Speaker 4: but yeah, it was it was it came out of nowhere.
Speaker 5: I was like with my wife's family, I think in
Speaker 5: Pennsylvania and we were sort of it was like in summer,
Speaker 5: and they're.
Speaker 4: Like, hey, why don't you do SVU one more time?
Speaker 4: And I was like, really, it's like twenty years later,
Speaker 4: and I was like, all right, what am I doing?
Speaker 4: And it was fun. So I just I zipped into
Speaker 4: the city and I did it.
Speaker 1: And that was They have to just keep torturing Olivia
Speaker 1: with various deaths and horrible thing.
Speaker 3: Who can we get rid of that?
Speaker 1: They have to bring back your daughter Olivia at some point,
Speaker 1: like she has a living niece, right, yeah, you got
Speaker 1: to get her back like she was one in season
Speaker 1: twenty one.
Speaker 4: Hey, that's a really good idea. I'm going to float
Speaker 4: that to the writers.
Speaker 3: We've got to get her back in there.
Speaker 4: That's not bad. Maybe I could like I could haunt
Speaker 4: at least in like you know somewhere.
Speaker 3: Flashbacks. They can bring you in for flashbacks.
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, exactly, some nurturing time. Yeah, we went to
Speaker 4: the park the zoo.
Speaker 2: Are you working on anything now or things coming out
Speaker 2: that you're excited about?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm so.
Speaker 5: I've recently I've done I've sort of started this little
Speaker 5: company called Early Bird Pictures and uh, and we're producing
Speaker 5: a bunch of stuff now.
Speaker 4: So we're just getting off the ground.
Speaker 5: Have a couple of films that we just got some
Speaker 5: dough for, so hopefully that's gonna happen, and we're gonna
Speaker 5: have a couple announcements coming. I've written a couple of
Speaker 5: films that we have just the beginnings of dough for,
Speaker 5: so I'm hoping to direct one of those and get
Speaker 5: those up.
Speaker 4: So that's that's what I've been sort of busy with
Speaker 4: over the last two years.
Speaker 5: And I thought it would be this really like smooth
Speaker 5: and easy segue because I felt like I had such
Speaker 5: a nice foothold in this biz. But it's it's a
Speaker 5: whole other job producing and uh, and I'm learning it
Speaker 5: like a startup company. So we're we're doing that. It's
Speaker 5: been great.
Speaker 4: It's been a total adventure and we'll see where these
Speaker 4: films go. But I think we're gonna are The.
Speaker 5: Things I wrote are a romantic comedy and a and
Speaker 5: an action comedy. And then uh, and then we have,
Speaker 5: you know, a couple. One is as a film based
Speaker 5: on a beautiful book called The Dressmakers of Auschwitz about
Speaker 5: these these women who basically sort of stayed together and
Speaker 5: knit their way out of Auschwitz. It's a true story
Speaker 5: and it's just a it's based on a New York
Speaker 5: Times bestseller, beautiful book.
Speaker 4: And so we're we we've adapted that, we're adapting it
Speaker 4: to a script and we're getting that out.
Speaker 5: And then we've got another one which is sort of
Speaker 5: a dark, sort of romantic thriller that we're working on
Speaker 5: that we just got funded, so that should be coming
Speaker 5: out soon. I mean, we have to make it and everything,
Speaker 5: but we're doing a little deadline thing on that pretty
Speaker 5: soon and then we'll see, we'll see what else. I mean,
Speaker 5: that's sort of you know, that's the first things. We've
Speaker 5: got a couple of TV shows we're working on as well,
Speaker 5: so we'll see where it all goes.
Speaker 2: This has been so fun, though, Michael, thank you so
Speaker 2: much for I can't wait to hopefully see your rom
Speaker 2: com Yeah.
Speaker 4: Me too.
Speaker 3: It's fun.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I know, I love it.
Speaker 2: I love it.
Speaker 4: I like a little bit of grit to it, you know, yeah, come.
Speaker 3: On, we need it. Thanks for taking the time to.
Speaker 4: Talk to a pleasure. Nice to chat with you guys.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, my mom is so gagged that I
Speaker 1: talked to the grandson of this piano virtuoso. I mean,
Speaker 1: this is awesome. But also we've got a member of
Speaker 1: the Benson family. I mean not Benson, but you know,
Speaker 1: Olivia's family.
Speaker 2: And I also love you know, I love hearing about
Speaker 2: a kid that grew up on set or in the
Speaker 2: backstage and like running around the city and just uh yeah,
Speaker 2: what a cool life.
Speaker 3: Totally totally.
Speaker 2: Andrew Rynolds was on Watch What Happens Live and someone
Speaker 2: asked if he's ever had sex backstage and Broadway, and
Speaker 2: I know people do fuck there, but he said during
Speaker 2: intermission with one of his cast members, whoa, that's a
Speaker 2: way to get power person and a half. He's like,
Speaker 2: do you think we could do it? And they're like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I think so, and they did it. Wow, scandaloso.
Speaker 3: Thanks for sharing. Yeah, thank you. Yeah. Post mortem on
Speaker 3: this episode is tough.
Speaker 1: I mean this, like obviously Simon makes the worst choices
Speaker 1: one after another.
Speaker 3: But also the reason that they even lost their kids
Speaker 3: for a day over.
Speaker 1: A joint is so insane to me, As I said,
Speaker 1: but I mean ten years later, it's that would never happen.
Speaker 2: It's not like a long time has passed. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: just such blatant racism and patterns. It's like so strange
Speaker 2: and like it's very disappointing. It's very upsetting. But then
Speaker 2: he decided to make every wrong like he could have
Speaker 2: sued the city and made millions of the yes, yeah,
Speaker 2: like Andre.
Speaker 3: Was on it.
Speaker 2: They could have made it work. But even though like
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, you're an idiot, Like I don't. I mean,
Speaker 2: rest in peace to the character, of course, but like
Speaker 2: every wrong decision you could possibly make, Yeah.
Speaker 3: Stop jumping bail.
Speaker 1: That didn't work for you, so neither will napping your
Speaker 1: children and taking them to another state.
Speaker 3: Like it's so confused. His reasoning is like we just
Speaker 3: thought we could start over in South Carolina. It's just
Speaker 3: so dumb. But also, god, the JC DO.
Speaker 2: Guard story what a fun I mean, like, I know
Speaker 2: the amount of cop intervention that could have happened, and
Speaker 2: they were so lazy and bad at their job.
Speaker 3: And just like equally trusting of this guy. It's just
Speaker 3: like it's my god.
Speaker 1: I just feel also like I do believe that we
Speaker 1: have the rights to privacy as the Constitution allows, but
Speaker 1: I do think if you've built essentially a small shanty
Speaker 1: town in your backyard, we got to check those every
Speaker 1: once in a while, like every couple of years. Your
Speaker 1: little backyard shanty town needs like a permit because it
Speaker 1: keeps being the home of girls that have been kidnapped.
Speaker 2: And like outside of the shanty town, it's like he's
Speaker 2: not allowed to be around kids. So why the niece
Speaker 2: the appointments? Like, yeah, like what is wrong with you?
Speaker 2: And I think they did an amazing job in this
Speaker 2: episode of showing like, instead of messing around and harassing
Speaker 2: black people in Harlem for having joints or like getting stopped,
Speaker 2: you could actually help J. C. Duggard get out, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean. And I just really liked what
Speaker 2: they were able to show in this episode. Yeah matter storytelling.
Speaker 1: And I think to me, like, I know, I'm obsessed
Speaker 1: with family annihilators, but I'm also like really really like obsessed,
Speaker 1: but also terrified of these like men that just have
Speaker 1: to like hold women as like cattle and just have
Speaker 1: babies with them. Like it's so sick, and we just
Speaker 1: have heard so many stories of it happening. It's not
Speaker 1: like it's a once in a while ooh, this spooky guy.
Speaker 1: It's like many many people have done this. And yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's one of my biggest fears. Yes, like basement
Speaker 1: locks from the outside or whatever, can't get out if
Speaker 1: you kill your cap, sure you can't get out upstairs whatever,
Speaker 1: that whole thing.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, And I.
Speaker 2: Also like that Jacy after getting out was like fuck
Speaker 2: all of you for thinking I'm in love with a captor.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I've talked about this before, like someone will just casually
Speaker 2: mention a beauty in the beast bit and I'm like, actually,
Speaker 2: Stockholm syndrome is not real and it's sexis and but
Speaker 2: it does like sicken me that like they think it's like, no,
Speaker 2: that's the way to fucking survive, you fucking idiot.
Speaker 3: I don't know. It's scary. I can't believe what she survived.
Speaker 2: I'm so glad she's out and safe and I'm helping
Speaker 2: others and yeah, I don't I'm not a religious person,
Speaker 2: but definitely God bless Yeah, absolutely, I just did a
Speaker 2: friend's podcast and they're like, you know, I know you're Jewish,
Speaker 2: but what is like we are actual beliefs, because it's
Speaker 2: not like I'm like, you know, keeping kosher.
Speaker 3: I go, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I think like we have goodness and God within all
Speaker 2: of us and the YadA YadA, and I went, I
Speaker 2: think maybe I'm Quaker, And he goes, isn't there a
Speaker 2: whole thing like peace and not being volatile?
Speaker 3: And I go, Okay, I guess I'm not. I guess
Speaker 3: I'm not a Quaker.
Speaker 2: Checkmate, Okay, but I do believe we all have like
Speaker 2: intuition and spirit inside of ourselves, and religion quelches it
Speaker 2: and takes all of our power away from us, but
Speaker 2: really all the goodness and everything is within us well.
Speaker 2: And also like helping them, helping your neighbor and being
Speaker 2: kind to your fellow man, and not because it's going
Speaker 2: to get you into some like fictional like heaven afterwards
Speaker 2: or send you to hell.
Speaker 1: Ooh look at those stickers so cute beautiful. Are your
Speaker 1: kids into stickers?
Speaker 3: Yeah they are, they're sticker boxes at home.
Speaker 1: And but wait, didn't I tell you on this trip
Speaker 1: we got a sticker every place we stopped and they
Speaker 1: definated their suitcase with it. Use so their suitcase has
Speaker 1: stickers of every place we stopped. We got cool stickers
Speaker 1: in every town. We got a little Chicago, a little
Speaker 1: Grand Can't, Cheyenne, went Wyoming, all the places.
Speaker 3: So that was fun. But they do like stickers. I
Speaker 3: wouldn't say that was in one of my gay books.
Speaker 3: They had to.
Speaker 1: I am real cowboy town, a lot of people walking
Speaker 1: around in boots and cowboy I know.
Speaker 2: And then the rich kind of not that like I
Speaker 2: think like that part of the world's great, but it's
Speaker 2: like rich people go and just really displace and fuck
Speaker 2: up people and communities everywhere constantly.
Speaker 3: It's really crazy. Yeah, mountain towns.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember people going to Boise a lot during
Speaker 1: the pandemic, and I feel like they were like, get
Speaker 1: out of here, but I don't want supposedly a lovely
Speaker 1: place to live. Okay, well let's get into let's get
Speaker 1: into what would Sister Peg Do, which connects to this
Speaker 1: week's episode.
Speaker 3: Obviously, this is a segment.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry do this to you, but I know I
Speaker 2: talked about the gay Book last week, but it's the
Speaker 2: same day.
Speaker 3: Sorry, guys. The jig is up.
Speaker 2: So but goodbye Paradise. You know, it's like this call
Speaker 2: it's a polygamon cults. And we talk about these crimes
Speaker 2: all the time, and like even with this episode with
Speaker 2: JC Duggart and like connects to homeschooling and everything, but
Speaker 2: like with this polygamous cull, like you don't think about
Speaker 2: what it takes to really escape. Like if you're born
Speaker 2: on the compound, you don't have a birth certificate, you
Speaker 2: don't have a Social Security number, you don't exist, You
Speaker 2: can't get an ID. So they like you know, they
Speaker 2: like kicked him out or whatever and just left him
Speaker 2: at a bus stop. But it's like they can't get
Speaker 2: on a plane, they can't get a job because they
Speaker 2: don't have ID. You have to learn, like the state
Speaker 2: has to give you a birth certificate, and just how
Speaker 2: long it takes to actually survive outside of these environments
Speaker 2: and how dangerous they really.
Speaker 3: Are, like the government.
Speaker 2: I'm not pro government, but it's like no one knows
Speaker 2: you exist except your abusers.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's really hard to get a birth certificate.
Speaker 2: Also, like the process and these kids, so like these
Speaker 2: boys only had like a sixth grade education. You had
Speaker 2: to get a ged like I don't know, it's like
Speaker 2: obviously this gay romance book, but it's like it really
Speaker 2: made me and we think about this all the time,
Speaker 2: of course, especially with Jason, like and the kids that
Speaker 2: she gave birth to, but it's like had she escaped, Yeah,
Speaker 2: but like the fact that you're uneducated, you probably can't
Speaker 2: really read, have comprehension, you don't know the internet, you've
Speaker 2: never watched TV, like these guys thought like everything in
Speaker 2: the compound was was real and then they like watched
Speaker 2: TV for the first time and see gay guys and
Speaker 2: they like didn't know that that was acceptable in the world.
Speaker 2: And so it's like, I know this is like stating
Speaker 2: the obvious, but it's like such a limited point of view,
Speaker 2: and then like no way to survive, like right, so hard,
Speaker 2: like they had resources and they're fictional guys, and like
Speaker 2: people are dealing with this all the time. And I
Speaker 2: just think, because we're talking about wyoming in that place
Speaker 2: in Utah and just like you're just born and married
Speaker 2: to a fifty year old man giving birth and no
Speaker 2: one knows about these kids or you, and there you
Speaker 2: can't get a job, Like fuck, when people go why
Speaker 2: can't you leave. Why don't you leave? Why didn't you escape?
Speaker 2: Why didn't you know connected to Stockholm? Like always trying
Speaker 2: to figure out like that, and it's like instead of
Speaker 2: questioning these people that are trying to survive, like why
Speaker 2: don't you ask yourself the question and try to answer it.
Speaker 3: And like see that?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean I was just trying to help
Speaker 1: somebody get a birth certificate recently, And don't remember if
Speaker 1: I talked about this already. You need a debit card
Speaker 1: to get one, and if you don't have a bank accountant,
Speaker 1: you can't get one. So like I had to go
Speaker 1: get a prepaid debit card and then that has to
Speaker 1: match that because that's the way that you could circumvent
Speaker 1: the address that you're shipping it to, because I couldn't
Speaker 1: use my own credit card because I has to match
Speaker 1: the address for shipping it to. Like they make it
Speaker 1: so impossible, and I'm talking about this is also for
Speaker 1: people that are like like I just I don't. I
Speaker 1: mentioned last week that I met and a guest stier
Speaker 1: at a party and she was telling us about how
Speaker 1: our friends started this organized to basically help people that
Speaker 1: just got out of jail get like all their documents,
Speaker 1: get all these things, because like you know, recidivism is
Speaker 1: so bad. But yeah, leaving any sort of secluded, isolated
Speaker 1: community and reintegrating into the world is really hard, especially
Speaker 1: these religious environments.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we need to find like maybe that should be
Speaker 2: a goal for us in the future for what with
Speaker 2: Sister Peg, to try to find a place that helps
Speaker 2: people that escape these.
Speaker 3: Situations cults and stuff. Yeah, yeabsolutely, because.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like I said, we study this all the time
Speaker 2: and like look into these but until I read this
Speaker 2: fictional book, Yeah, I really really well because settled we.
Speaker 1: Believe these cults. It's like they were sixteen. They were
Speaker 1: like lured in as like a twenty year old. So
Speaker 1: they just go back to their families. But if you're
Speaker 1: born into one, it's like the children in Yesteryear, what
Speaker 1: the hell's gonna you know, luckily they have, you know whatever.
Speaker 1: I hate the people that don't like Ester Year.
Speaker 2: It's so annoying because someone's like, wow, the premise isn't
Speaker 2: exacting this and that, and I'm like, well, because if
Speaker 2: you did, then it wouldn't be fun, like like fuck off,
Speaker 2: fuck off.
Speaker 1: I just I kind of think that when people just
Speaker 1: think that they don't like the main character, so they
Speaker 1: can't like the book.
Speaker 3: That's like, I don't know if I don't think we
Speaker 3: can be friends, but suddenly I have a lot of
Speaker 3: strong points of view as a new reader.
Speaker 1: But yeah, well, and another plug for our Patreon, we
Speaker 1: do a whole yesteryear recap over there, guys, if you're interested,
Speaker 1: all right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and dm us if you have any requests for stocks,
Speaker 2: crime stuff, people, people you know that like you that
Speaker 2: are famous.
Speaker 3: Yeah, whatever.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So for what, let's get into what would Sister
Speaker 1: Peg do? That's our weekly segment where we direct you
Speaker 1: to a book, a documentary, an organization, something to give
Speaker 1: you more information. And obviously I wanted to point you
Speaker 1: to JC du Guard's memoir called A Stolen Life. That's
Speaker 1: one of her books. Her other one is called Freedom.
Speaker 1: If you want to hear more firsthand about her saga
Speaker 1: and how like she's honestly sort of turned it into
Speaker 1: a beautiful story of survival, check it out and that
Speaker 1: will be linked in our show notes and as always
Speaker 1: saved on our Instagram page in our WWSPD highlights and
Speaker 1: our Instagram is that messed up pod.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go buy her book I gotta go get it.
Speaker 2: I gotta support our girl.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Like bon Goodreads, like there are a couple
Speaker 1: of people give it one star?
Speaker 3: How dare you?
Speaker 1: How dare you give this girl who wrote a book
Speaker 1: about her fucking horrific kidnapping one star? Give it five stars?
Speaker 1: To keep your fucking mouth shut, That's what I say.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, a memoir about your eighteen year kidnapping. It's like, people,
Speaker 1: it's like, how there's one star reviews of the Grand
Speaker 1: Canyon kind of sandy, Get the fuck, get up, find
Speaker 1: a hobby.
Speaker 2: Really truly, that's really tickling me. I can't imagine. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't know if the sentence structure and metaphors.
Speaker 1: Right for me right, Like, oh my god, school, like
Speaker 1: she didn't pass fifth grade.
Speaker 3: That's so fucked up. People are so fucked up.
Speaker 2: I also, so many people are telling me to join
Speaker 2: good Reads, and I'm just like, I don't want to
Speaker 2: do homework. I don't want to clock a thing that
Speaker 2: I just found. You're here giving your book reviews. You're
Speaker 2: not gonna go type them and put them. Maybe I'll
Speaker 2: make little videos casually for fun, but like I don't
Speaker 2: because someone else was like, but then it recommends this,
Speaker 2: and then I'm like, I'll just take a photo of
Speaker 2: your phone. I'll screenshot a thing, I'll google it, Like
Speaker 2: I don't Yeah, I don't actually need the good Reads algorithm.
Speaker 4: You'll be okay.
Speaker 2: I just don't want pressure or people being like, how
Speaker 2: many books did you read this year?
Speaker 3: It's like, get out of my fuck. I know that's
Speaker 3: I don't raise like my friends read more books than me.
Speaker 3: Who cares? Just read?
Speaker 2: Yeah, being sick was cool. I mean it wasn't cool
Speaker 2: health as wealth. But I did get to like read
Speaker 2: while it was raining outside for like five hours.
Speaker 3: Oh that sounds gorgeous. I am so rainy today. I
Speaker 3: want to read.
Speaker 2: I'm going to read into an app. I got an
Speaker 2: app today, okay, And yeah, thank you for that. And
Speaker 2: next week we're back, baby, welcome to the Pedo Motel.
Speaker 3: I wonder what that's about.
Speaker 2: So you can't even imagine Season twenty two, episode ten.
Speaker 3: We're obsessed with all of you. Thanks for listening. Bye
Speaker 3: see you next week, Tommies.
Speaker 2: That's messed up as an exactly right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us, or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: it That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com. Listen to
Speaker 1: That's Messed Up on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. Follow the podcast on Instagram
Speaker 1: at That's Messed Up Pod, and follow us personally at
Speaker 1: Cara Clank and at Glitter Cheese. As always, please see
Speaker 1: our show notes for sources and more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien
Speaker 2: and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain, and to.
Speaker 1: Our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner.
Speaker 2: And to Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly
Speaker 2: Jean Andrews for our artwork.
Speaker 1: Thank you to our executive producers Georgia Hardstart, Karen Kilgarriff,
Speaker 1: Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media.
Speaker 3: Dun dun