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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to cool People who did cool stuff.

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Speaker 2: You're the weekly reminder that I'm in a weird hole

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Speaker 2: reading about the ancient world, and now you all are

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Speaker 2: in a weird hole listening to me talk about the

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Speaker 2: ancient world. I am your host, Margaret Kildroy and my

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Speaker 2: guest today who pays attention to the regular world, the

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Speaker 2: modern world, the postmodern world. It's Katie Stall.

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Speaker 3: That's me.

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Speaker 4: I pay her attention or to the postmodern world. It's

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Speaker 4: my official title.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I love words that have so many meanings that

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Speaker 2: you can't use them and expect people to understand what

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Speaker 2: you're saying. That's how I feel about postmodern in this context.

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Speaker 2: Oh god, one day I'm going to do like a

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Speaker 2: weird philosophy podcast for AM. Nope, anyway, stick with History.

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Speaker 3: Said the same thing last episode. You can do a spinoff,

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Speaker 3: you can do a one off spinoff.

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Speaker 4: You threw a whole side project, but then you've got

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Speaker 4: to create more content.

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Speaker 2: I know, and the promise. It's just like I just

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Speaker 2: want to know everything. I like deep diving new things.

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Speaker 2: And so this is the nice thing about History podcast

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Speaker 2: is I'm not running out of history anytime soon.

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Speaker 3: No, you got a pretty wide net.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, even this week's subject, Spartacus. I've known I was

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Speaker 2: going to do Spartacus since the very beginning. I'm on

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Speaker 2: year like four four and a half. There's a bunch

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Speaker 2: of them, Like one day, I'm going to just take

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Speaker 2: like half a year and do Harriet Tubman because I'm

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Speaker 2: pretty convinced Harriet Tubman is like literally the coolest person

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Speaker 2: who's ever lived.

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Speaker 3: You should definitely do that.

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Speaker 2: But I haven't done Harriet Tubman yet because I'm like,

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Speaker 2: this is going to be like an eight partner or

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Speaker 2: maybe it'll just be a two parter. I don't know.

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Speaker 3: You got to start, but you never know what can

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Speaker 3: of worms you're opening.

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Speaker 2: I knew I know much like the can of worms

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Speaker 2: of this episode about Spartacus and how it's not about

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Speaker 2: Spartacus and it's about the Servile Wars, but it's not

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Speaker 2: even about the wars. It's about the beautiful societies that

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Speaker 2: people can build in the cracks when terrible things are happening.

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Speaker 2: Because where we last left our heroes, they hadn't even

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Speaker 2: been introduced yet, because it was just context about slavery

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Speaker 2: and the nightmare that is the ancient world. At least

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Speaker 2: in this part of the world.

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Speaker 3: So you definitely should listen to the first one first.

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Speaker 4: Yes, that should go without saying.

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Speaker 2: So there's three servile wars. They are called the First

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Speaker 2: Servile War, the Second Servile War, and you'll never guess

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Speaker 2: what the third Servile wars. Oh, no, I said it.

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Speaker 2: It's the Third Servile War.

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Speaker 4: Oh, you gave it to me. I'm sure I would

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Speaker 4: have come up with it, mabe, Yeah, creative naming.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. The first two of these wars they lay a

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Speaker 2: sort of groundwork and history for people of well, if

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Speaker 2: you don't want to be enslaved, you can just kill

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Speaker 2: all the people who enslaved you. And that was an

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Speaker 2: important technological development. Obviously, there have been slave revolts before this,

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Speaker 2: and actually there was like whole big things. As long

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Speaker 2: as there's been people being like I own you, there's

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Speaker 2: people being like the fuck you do?

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Speaker 3: There have been people revolting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, But the first two of these Servile Wars

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Speaker 2: take place in Sicily, which is the big island that

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Speaker 2: if you imagine Italy as a boot, Sicily is the

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Speaker 2: football that it's kicking. It has really fertile soil and

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Speaker 2: it is very much a slave plantation island by the

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Speaker 2: middle of the second century BCE. They've actually only kind

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Speaker 2: of recently conquered this, I think during the Punic Wars.

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Speaker 2: But again, I don't think about this stuff on a

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Speaker 2: daily basis. I'm not certain Rome had a very specific

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Speaker 2: policy in place to make sure that enslaved people were

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Speaker 2: transported really long distances so that they're far away from

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Speaker 2: home to break their morale. And the reason that that

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Speaker 2: gets pointed out about Sicily is that when they took Sicily,

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Speaker 2: they like enslaved half the island, right, Like Rome isn't

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Speaker 2: just a like we enslaved foreigners place. They're all like, man,

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Speaker 2: you lost a war. Ah, too bad, buddy, you're like

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Speaker 2: onto logically less than us now, oh yeah, which is

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Speaker 2: so funny because they really do have this attitude of

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Speaker 2: like enslaved people are like biologically inferior, even though it's

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Speaker 2: like clearly like, well, we just lost a war, like

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Speaker 2: that's how everyone gets anyway whatever.

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Speaker 4: I think that there's got to be something about just

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Speaker 4: the human brain to deal with different moral codes then too,

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Speaker 4: but you have to other them somehow totally. You have

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Speaker 4: to say like I can do this. It's like no,

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Speaker 4: they don't deserve what I have.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and so they wouldn't be like, all right, we

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Speaker 2: enslave Sicily and now you're all enslaved here. Instead they're like,

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Speaker 2: all right, Gauls from France and Thracians from northern Greece

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Speaker 2: and Germans from Germania. That's where you live now is

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Speaker 2: on the football. I almost start Hacky Sack because doesn't

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Speaker 2: really look like a football. But I feel like people

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Speaker 2: don't play Hacky Sack anymore. So, but maybe I just

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Speaker 2: don't live on the West Coast.

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Speaker 3: I was just talking about Hackey Sack. No, we were

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Speaker 3: saying the same thing.

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Speaker 2: Oh no one plays it anymore. I don't think it's

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Speaker 2: a shame. I think it's just a thing that has

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Speaker 2: come and gone.

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Speaker 3: It's just a reality.

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Speaker 4: I just saw somebody with a Hackey sack and that

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Speaker 4: sparked a convers Like those twenty.

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Speaker 2: Years, I wonder if there's going to be a revival

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Speaker 2: and all the like nineties kids are going to come

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Speaker 2: out and be like, my time has come.

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Speaker 3: This episode is brought to you by Hacky Sack, cat

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Speaker 3: out of the bag.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Sicily, the Hacky Sack of Europe. Yeah, all right,

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Speaker 2: so that's Sicily, and people are like, all right, if

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Speaker 2: we put foreigners here, it'll break the morale. Just kidding.

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Speaker 2: People rebelled anyway, And the first two Servile Wars they're

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Speaker 2: kind of run like their Romans. The people who are

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Speaker 2: doing the rebellion they are and I mean this sort

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Speaker 2: of pejoratively. They didn't really try to change the system,

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Speaker 2: just or place who had what position within that system.

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Speaker 2: At least that's the impression that I get and am

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Speaker 2: from reading certain historians. The First War, it was one

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Speaker 2: thirty five BCE, and there was this prophet or magician

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Speaker 2: or whatever from Syria, an enslaved guy named Unis. And

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Speaker 2: he had been named Unis, probably by the slave trader,

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Speaker 2: because Greek slaves sold for more, so they're like, here's

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Speaker 2: a Greek name Unis, And he was like, I don't

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Speaker 2: really have any say in this, do they. And he

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Speaker 2: was owned by a rich guy, and he was enslaved domestically,

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Speaker 2: so we had a slightly nicer life like whatever. And

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Speaker 2: he would do fortune telling work for his owner, and

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Speaker 2: he would perform magic tricks like breathing fire, which I

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Speaker 2: guess he did by holding an ember within a like

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Speaker 2: walnut shell inside of his mouth and then like spitting

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Speaker 2: out ashes, which is kind of cool.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's not a bad party trick.

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Speaker 2: And he had a bunch of prophecies handed down to

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Speaker 2: him by the goddess Attigartis from his homeland. One of

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Speaker 2: these prophecies was basically like, you're going to become the

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Speaker 2: king of Enna, which is the central city of Sicily,

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Speaker 2: which I think is where he lived. I don't think

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Speaker 2: it's the most important city, but it's like literally the

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Speaker 2: central one. It's in the middle. And so he's really

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Speaker 2: open about this. He tells his owner He's like, I'm

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Speaker 2: going to be king one day, and the guy is like, man,

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Speaker 2: this guy's so much fun to parties. I love having

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Speaker 2: this guy at parties. He's gonna tell him he's gonna

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Speaker 2: be king. It's gonna be so funny. And the whole time,

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Speaker 2: this guy's like, man, I'm gonna kill the shit out

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Speaker 2: of everyone in this room. So I actually have some

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Speaker 2: sympathy for this man.

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Speaker 4: I kind of like him, even though whatever, sure, I

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Speaker 4: mean so far.

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Speaker 2: And he would get asked by dinner guests how he

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Speaker 2: would run the place, and in some accounts the guests

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Speaker 2: who are nice to him, he was like, I will

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Speaker 2: spare you when I am king, and by those accounts,

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Speaker 2: he actually does spare those guests when he becomes king,

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Speaker 2: but not actually sure. Eventually he leads a slave rebellion

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Speaker 2: about four hundred or five thousand people free themselves, because

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Speaker 2: why would any numbers ever be consistent, and they massacre

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Speaker 2: the city of Anna. They kill all of the free

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Speaker 2: people except the smiths who could be forced to make

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Speaker 2: them weapons, like chained up and enslaved and forced to

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Speaker 2: make them weapons. And Eunus declared himself king or was

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Speaker 2: elected king, depends on again who you read. There's also

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Speaker 2: possibly a version where all of the histories about this

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Speaker 2: were written by people who hated enslaved people and hated

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Speaker 2: these rebellions, So he almost certainly was king, whether or

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Speaker 2: not he massacred everyone. He might have only masacred the

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Speaker 2: rich people, but I think he massacred all the free

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Speaker 2: people except the people he enslaved. And he immediately was

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Speaker 2: like I'm fucking king now, And he had coins made

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Speaker 2: with his likeness, which is that like coins are that

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Speaker 2: new thing, you know, like we're talking about it, and

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Speaker 2: if you listen to part one you would know what

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Speaker 2: I'm talking about.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you would, you should probably do that if you

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Speaker 4: don't know what she's talking about.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what are you even doing.

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Speaker 4: It's a big part of the first episode.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, another city rebelled and took control of itself and

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Speaker 2: they swore allegiance to Unus. Rome tried to smash the

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Speaker 2: rebellion but lost bad and the rebels took most of

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Speaker 2: Sicily and they held it for a couple of years.

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Speaker 2: Rome eventually retook it in one thirty two, and over

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Speaker 2: the course of two different victories, so three years later, yeah,

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Speaker 2: three years later. They held it for about three years.

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Speaker 2: Then Rome retook it and crucified about eighteen thousand people. Oh,

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Speaker 2: they were really into crucifying people.

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Speaker 3: Unice. I'm assuming Unis was one of them.

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Speaker 2: Oh shit, I actually can't remember how Unus died. I

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Speaker 2: get him mixed up with one of the kings from

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Speaker 2: the second rebellion. One of them dies ill in captivity

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Speaker 2: later and it might be Unis, but I can't remember.

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Speaker 4: We'll find out when we find out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so people in Sicily and slave people are like, oh,

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Speaker 2: we can just like do that sometimes though. So about

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Speaker 2: a generation later, in one oh four BCE, there's this

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Speaker 2: thing that happens where I think this is really funny.

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Speaker 2: I first wrote this very hand wavy, when I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: Rome did some fockery, But then I learned what the

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Speaker 2: fuckery was, and I think this is hilarious. Rome asked

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Speaker 2: one of its allies for soldiers, and the ally was like,

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Speaker 2: I can't give you any soldiers because you enslaved all

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Speaker 2: my dudes because they didn't pay taxes to you. And

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Speaker 2: so Rome was like, oh shit, sorry about that. I'll

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Speaker 2: tell you what. We'll set all your dudes free so

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Speaker 2: that they can be cannon fodder and die for us.

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Speaker 2: And when I say dudes, it's actually people of all genders.

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Speaker 2: But in this case, the soldier's part was, you know, dudes.

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Speaker 4: The people that they want. I assume they're not asking

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Speaker 4: the women, the female slaves.

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Speaker 2: To to go be soldiers.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, cannon fodder.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And so a bunch of people got freed. The

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Speaker 2: Senate made this decree that all of these people from

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Speaker 2: a couple different places were now free. But the governor

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Speaker 2: of Sicily started freeing some people and then was like,

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Speaker 2: oh shit, wait, no, this is going to piss off

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Speaker 2: the landowners. Nah, I don't care what Rome has to

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Speaker 2: say I'm not freeing anybody. And so these people who

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Speaker 2: had been freed are like, no, just kidding, You're unfree again.

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Speaker 2: And so people are like the fuck fuck all this,

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Speaker 2: and they rebel and both the people who wore to

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Speaker 2: be free and other people were like, well, he got free,

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Speaker 2: how come I gonna get free?

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Speaker 4: You wanted soldiers, They're just not going to be on

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Speaker 4: your team.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, And this time it's not just dudes. This

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Speaker 2: is the one that I can point to and say

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Speaker 2: that women and men fought alike in the second servile

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Speaker 2: of war. They probably fought in the other two as well,

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Speaker 2: but this is the one where we have historians admitting

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Speaker 2: that women were part of the fighting. And they elected

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Speaker 2: another fortune teller as their king, a guy named Salvius.

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Speaker 2: For several years, they smashed every Roman army that landed

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Speaker 2: on the island. But in one oh one again, after

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Speaker 2: three years, more troops landed and they systematically slaughtered everyone

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Speaker 2: they found as traders in the rebels, midst opened the

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Speaker 2: city gates for the enemy.

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Speaker 4: Seems like three years is how long it takes for

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Speaker 4: them to get their act together and transport people.

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Speaker 1: I know.

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Speaker 2: The third one is going to be three years too. Oh,

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Speaker 2: I don't remember, it's just the second and third. There's

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Speaker 2: like other shit going on where Rome is always fighting

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Speaker 2: at the borders, and so these are a little bit

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Speaker 2: timed to be like Rome's busy, let's do this shit. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: And so it takes them a while to get their

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Speaker 2: shit together. They actually try several times to stop them

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Speaker 2: ahead of time, and all of these people lose political favor.

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Speaker 2: Most of the writing we have about it is from

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Speaker 2: the point of view of the dudes who are sent

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Speaker 2: to go put down the rebellion, like the various senators

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Speaker 2: and shit or whatever. But I hate those people, so

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Speaker 2: I'm mostly not going to talk about them. I'm going

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Speaker 2: to talk about one at.

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Speaker 3: The end, yeah, fuck them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And so a lot of them are losing and

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Speaker 2: everyone's like, aha, fuck you, you lost. I am going

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Speaker 2: to go put them down and become the hero of Rome,

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Speaker 2: you know. And it was actually a big deal because

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Speaker 2: a lot of the food for Rome was grown on Sicily,

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Speaker 2: so it was a very verd and TACKI sec and

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Speaker 2: if you're listening to here in Sicily, I'm kind of sorry,

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Speaker 2: but only a little bit. But anyways, eventually they do

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Speaker 2: crush this army. And although it's implied in the histories

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Speaker 2: that I've read that it is once again kind of

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Speaker 2: a like, all right, I'm king now, and actually the

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Speaker 2: original king like dies in battle, which is a reasonably

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Speaker 2: noble thing for a king to do if you're gonna

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Speaker 2: lead a rebellion, and then someone else comes and is

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Speaker 2: leading it when they lose. But the way that they

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Speaker 2: end up going out at the end was like kind

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Speaker 2: of this beautiful last slave rebellion. A thousand of them

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Speaker 2: were captured and sent to Rome, and they were meant

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Speaker 2: to die in the gladiatorial arena, being killed by various

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Speaker 2: beasts for the entertainment of the crowd. And so what

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Speaker 2: they did instead, according to the histories, which there's no

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Speaker 2: reason to believe them, and there's no reason to disbelieve them.

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Speaker 4: We're neutral about the histories, yeah, honestly, Like, but it's

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Speaker 4: great assault.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And what they did is they went out onto

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Speaker 2: the sands of the arena and then one by one,

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Speaker 2: quietly and unperformatively killed each other. Like one guy stabs

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Speaker 2: the guy next to him and then is stabbed by

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Speaker 2: the next guy. Inline thousand people do this until the

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Speaker 2: last guy falls on his own sword. Wow, And so

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Speaker 2: they're like, there will be no entertainment for this crowd.

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Speaker 2: So it's like one last like, we will not do

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Speaker 2: this for you. I think that's real beautiful.

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Speaker 4: It's dark, but it's incredibly beautiful, poetic, heartbreaking, brave.

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Speaker 2: I know. And just like coming from a like we

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Speaker 2: opened up the first one being like, oh, nothing ever changes,

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Speaker 2: I'm like, I think that the way that humans have

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Speaker 2: related to death has changed fundamentally in ways that make

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Speaker 2: us slightly more cowardly and less likely to do really

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Speaker 2: beautiful and noble things.

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Speaker 4: Well, gosh, this could be its own podcast side quest,

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Speaker 4: but absolutely we talk about death wrong, We think about

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Speaker 4: death wrong.

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Speaker 3: We literally delay.

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Speaker 4: We've extended our lifespan so long that we're distracted by

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Speaker 4: everything all the time. People back then understood the value

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Speaker 4: of their life and how short it is. I would

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Speaker 4: imagine in a way that we don't and confront death

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Speaker 4: more often. That's really what it is. You see it

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Speaker 4: viscerally more often. We ship people off to hospitals and

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Speaker 4: homes and anyway.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's genuinely hard to imagine being in this position,

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Speaker 2: not just because it's so unique to its time period,

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Speaker 2: but like, it's hard to imagine. And maybe that's because

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Speaker 2: of the relative position, the privilege that I live in

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Speaker 2: in that like when I am around death, it's I

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Speaker 2: don't know, before I think about this, you know what

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Speaker 2: I like thinking about.

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Speaker 3: Oh we're not talking about that right now.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, No, I was just gonna instead entirely, wildly

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Speaker 2: inappropriately cut doads and we're back. So that's the second

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Speaker 2: servile Warren. In both of these revolts, as best as

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Speaker 2: I can tell, they didn't really try to upend social

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Speaker 2: values besides slavery, and at least the first one, I

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Speaker 2: actually had no problem in slaving free people.

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Speaker 4: It wanted to Okay, well, in theory, you're still okay

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Speaker 4: with the slavery as long as it's.

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Speaker 2: Not you, okay, right. I know a little bit less

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Speaker 2: about the second one, and I want to believe I

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Speaker 2: don't know whatever. And I'm also like not mad at

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Speaker 2: the first one either, Like I understand why someone's like

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Speaker 2: I get it. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Also, different time period by a lot, okay.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And most people, most of the historians are saying

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Speaker 2: that these people were running around massacring people in both

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Speaker 2: of these because the idea that war involved the mass

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Speaker 2: rape and murder of civilians seem to be very much intact.

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Speaker 2: And I don't know whether they are tyrannical or not.

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Speaker 2: I don't know exactly everything about them. I know very

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Speaker 2: little about them, but that seemed to be still the case.

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Speaker 2: And again, it's fine, but they're just context for the

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Speaker 2: third one. Because the third one stands out so strongly

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Speaker 2: for how it behaved, it's hard to learn about the

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Speaker 2: stuff because all the contemporary sources hated these rebels. Modern

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Speaker 2: historians tend to get lost in the ins and outs

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Speaker 2: of the strategy and war, and they don't discuss the

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Speaker 2: social environment. But it certainly implied in what I read

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Speaker 2: that these weren't radical, transforming societies, but instead switching who

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Speaker 2: ruled and who died, which leads us to the Third

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Speaker 2: Servile War, which is different. But first I want to

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Speaker 2: talk about gladiators, because the third one was started by gladiators.

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Speaker 2: You know much about gladiators? No, he do you ever

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Speaker 2: watch Gladiator?

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Speaker 3: The movie Gladiator? Mel Gibson.

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Speaker 2: I don't think that was Mel Gibson. That was some

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Speaker 2: other MANH.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I wasn't. I'm just saying things.

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Speaker 4: It was almost certainly some other man Russell Crowe. Russell Crowe,

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Speaker 4: I do confuse them a lot. Yeah, No, I'm sure

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Speaker 4: I saw it.

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Speaker 2: It's fine. It's like clearly loosely based on Spartacus, but

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Speaker 2: with this totally different like vibe. The guy's like Roman

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Speaker 2: and and honestly is the kind of thing that a

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Speaker 2: Roman would have written where it was like, oh, of

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Speaker 2: course this guy can lead. He is noble, for he

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Speaker 2: is Romance.

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Speaker 4: He is noble, he has got that good blood.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because they're literally going to do this to Spartacus.

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Speaker 2: Spartacus was probably Thracian, but then they're like going to

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Speaker 2: talk about him like, well, he was basically Greek, you know,

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Speaker 2: because they really want him to be Greek because they

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Speaker 2: want to be like.

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Speaker 4: I want to claim him.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, even though he's like bad, but he's clearly like competent,

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Speaker 2: Like Spartacus is a very competent war leader. So gladiators,

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Speaker 2: the ritual of gladiatorial combat comes out of the Italian

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Speaker 2: history of killing prisoners and enslaved people at the funeral

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Speaker 2: pire of important people, you know, that normal thing that

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Speaker 2: you do. And there's a couple of things I've read

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Speaker 2: that sort of contradict each other about whether or not

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Speaker 2: it's started with enslaved people who are being forced to

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Speaker 2: fight to the death. Or it's possible that even though

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Speaker 2: it was replacing the killing of enslaved people in convicts,

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Speaker 2: it was actually free people who were fighting not necessarily

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Speaker 2: to the death for money, but they might die, right,

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Speaker 2: because those are the two kind of vibes of gladiatorial combat.

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Speaker 2: Right by two sixty four BCE, so two hundred years

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Speaker 2: before today's story, you have gladiatorial exhibitions in Rome, and

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Speaker 2: soon enough, when you died, if you were an important

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Speaker 2: piece of shit, you would set aside money to pay

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Speaker 2: for the gladiatorial exhibitions at your funeral, and these get

390
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Speaker 2: bigger and bigger until they're like, all right, we've got

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Speaker 2: to do these all the time. We can't just wait

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Speaker 2: for people to die. We got to make people die.

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Speaker 2: Gladiators were mostly unfree people. They were captives, they were

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Speaker 2: enslaved people, they were condemned prisoners, and occasionally you have

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Speaker 2: these freeborn citizens who are like, I want fame and

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Speaker 2: glory and celebrity and riches, because you do get paid

397
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Speaker 2: for these fights, but if you're enslaved, it goes to

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Speaker 2: the person who owns you. You know, right. And if

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Speaker 2: you're condemned to gladiatorial combat as a prisoner, there's two versions.

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Speaker 2: There's two different verdicts that get you here. One is

401
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Speaker 2: you're condemned to die within a year, where they're like

402
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Speaker 2: gonna make sure you die in the ring, or if

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Speaker 2: you're lucky, you would be released if you survived three

404
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Speaker 2: years of combat. Wow, And this doesn't mean you have

405
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Speaker 2: to win every fight. Most of these are not death matches.

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Speaker 3: You got to survive them, though.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, who are the Roman knights and senators and women

408
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Speaker 2: all fought in the later arena?

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Speaker 3: Really?

410
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Speaker 2: Yeah? Equality, I know, And this is one of those

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Speaker 2: things where I'm like, I want to know everything about

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Speaker 2: women gladiators. Was this enslaved people was as prisoners where

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Speaker 2: they are like whole gladiatorial schools of women who were

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Speaker 2: like fuck, yeah, we're all free and doing weird girl

415
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Speaker 2: boss murder. I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I definitely want to see this movie, though.

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Speaker 2: I know. I love when you read a book and

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Speaker 2: you're like, well, that's one word in a sentence that

419
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Speaker 2: I want an entire book about.

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Speaker 3: Right, let's just drill down into that first. But Okay,

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Speaker 3: a lot.

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Speaker 2: Of the sources in the show notes are about gladiatorial combat.

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Speaker 2: As I was trying to write my head around parts

424
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Speaker 2: of it. Gladiators were kept in schools, Some were owned

425
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Speaker 2: by the schools and rented out for exhibitions. Well. Others

426
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Speaker 2: were basically stabled there by their rich owners, kind of

427
00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:57,720
Speaker 2: like how people keep horses. Yeah, and I've read a

428
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Speaker 2: lot of contradictory stuff about the arena and gladiatorial combat

429
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Speaker 2: and about how brutal it was and wasn't, And I

430
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Speaker 2: suspect it looks different at different times. I've read stuff

431
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Speaker 2: that implies that the later arena is like kind of sports,

432
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Speaker 2: you know, only people die more often, but like not

433
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Speaker 2: every time, like Nascar with the flipant of the cars.

434
00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:23,119
Speaker 4: Right right where people will go and they're like, I

435
00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:27,040
Speaker 4: know it's dangerous and I might see something, but by

436
00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:29,840
Speaker 4: no means is it a necessary outcome of the event?

437
00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:36,280
Speaker 2: Right, Because keeping gladiators fed was expensive and like trained in.

438
00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:39,040
Speaker 4: All your investment, you're throwing it away. If you've got

439
00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:42,280
Speaker 4: a good gladiator and you've got these people doing entertaining,

440
00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:44,080
Speaker 4: you don't want to just kill them every time.

441
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:47,080
Speaker 2: And so you would have these like referees to make

442
00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:48,840
Speaker 2: sure the fight was fair. Who would make sure that

443
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:51,680
Speaker 2: the swords were sharp. I love the past. It's totally

444
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:55,960
Speaker 2: a good place. So there's six hundred and fifty years

445
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:58,960
Speaker 2: of gladiatorial combat, and that is longer than white people

446
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:01,439
Speaker 2: have been in North America. So you're talking about a

447
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:03,879
Speaker 2: big stretch of time. So of course it's different in

448
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:07,639
Speaker 2: different ways. And in a way it was sort of

449
00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:11,040
Speaker 2: a replacement for human sacrifice. This is my own inference,

450
00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:14,399
Speaker 2: to be clear, But I bet you want to know

451
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:17,000
Speaker 2: about Roman human sacrifice. But boy, howdi did I read

452
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:18,520
Speaker 2: about it? Because I've actually been reading about it for

453
00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:22,240
Speaker 2: a couple of weeks. The propaganda against gall and a

454
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:25,000
Speaker 2: bunch of other places that Rome wanted to conquer mirrors

455
00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:30,159
Speaker 2: modern Islamophobia so perfectly. It's like they have terrible things

456
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:32,879
Speaker 2: and they hate freedom, and you know, they all do

457
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:37,560
Speaker 2: human sacrifice and whatever the fuck right, Because Rome banned

458
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:40,919
Speaker 2: human sacrifice at home and in the colonies in ninety

459
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:45,080
Speaker 2: seven BCE, and pretty much right away, this was used

460
00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:48,919
Speaker 2: as the excuse for colonial conquest. As I've talked about before,

461
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:51,960
Speaker 2: the actual point of the conquest was to capture loot

462
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:55,320
Speaker 2: and slaves and eventually tax people, but this was a

463
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:56,960
Speaker 2: moral spin to put on it.

464
00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:58,160
Speaker 3: It's the dog whistle.

465
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:00,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, they got a lot of oil, were there, But

466
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:02,520
Speaker 2: I swear it's about the human sacrifice, you know, not

467
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:03,720
Speaker 2: literally oil in this country.

468
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:06,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, don't ask me too many questions about our history

469
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:07,880
Speaker 4: of human sacrifice.

470
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:11,720
Speaker 2: These are the Heathen right. Literally, twenty years before this,

471
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:14,120
Speaker 2: they were burying a ton of people alive, but.

472
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:16,280
Speaker 3: Shorter life spans back then, some people might have.

473
00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:21,560
Speaker 2: Forgotten, and so everyone that the Romans didn't like was

474
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:25,159
Speaker 2: accused of human sacrifice, which almost everyone was doing. So

475
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:29,679
Speaker 2: the accusations were true, but the Romans really liked burying

476
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:32,600
Speaker 2: foreigners alive. There's just like all of these cases where

477
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 2: they're like, oh, we got a couple of goals and

478
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:35,919
Speaker 2: they like to bury them in couples, like men and

479
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:38,639
Speaker 2: women together. Wow, yeah, just bury them alive.

480
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:39,720
Speaker 3: What hell, horror.

481
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,320
Speaker 2: This is the thing that expanded and slowly conquered the

482
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:44,480
Speaker 2: world and brought its values everywhere. It is.

483
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,800
Speaker 4: I don't know why we're so fucked still though, Okay.

484
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 2: I can't figure it out. By eighty BCE, seventeen years

485
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:55,320
Speaker 2: after human sacrifice being banned, the Colosseum opened in Rome,

486
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:57,440
Speaker 2: which is frankly one of the most impressive buildings I've

487
00:23:57,440 --> 00:23:58,840
Speaker 2: ever seen in my life before that they were in

488
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 2: the public square, but they built this whole beautiful, terrible

489
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 2: thing so that people could fight lions and shit. And

490
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:09,000
Speaker 2: once it's more slaves and convicts going, more people start dying,

491
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:11,919
Speaker 2: right because you know, the convicts are expected to die

492
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,959
Speaker 2: in things. The last games were in four oh four

493
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:17,480
Speaker 2: AD and they were banned pretty much now that Rome

494
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:19,920
Speaker 2: was Christian, and also because they were expensive as fuck.

495
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 2: There's a lot of ins and outs of gladiatorial combat.

496
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,800
Speaker 2: There's like basically like character classes where there's common types

497
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:30,479
Speaker 2: of fighters, where you get specific people with specific weapon

498
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:33,360
Speaker 2: and armor combos and so like. People will be like, oh,

499
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 2: it's going to be a Thracian versus Amerodidon or whatever

500
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:37,920
Speaker 2: the fuck. So I bet if they do this one

501
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:41,199
Speaker 2: move it'll work really well because people really nerd it

502
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:41,959
Speaker 2: out about sports.

503
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, but people have been nerding out about sports

504
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:45,960
Speaker 4: since forever as we can.

505
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:50,960
Speaker 2: See, yep. And so the Third Servile War it's going

506
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 2: to kick off just seven years after the Colisseum opens

507
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:57,800
Speaker 2: along the west edge of southern Italy, not down in

508
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,480
Speaker 2: the toe but more like the top of the of

509
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:03,640
Speaker 2: the boot. If someone's wearing that like mid length boot.

510
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 2: You have a city called Capua, and it had been

511
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,400
Speaker 2: in Rome's sphere of influence for centuries at that point,

512
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,239
Speaker 2: and there was a gladiatorial school there, and in that

513
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 2: gladiatorial school there were enslaved gladiators, and about two hundred

514
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 2: of them started scheming. But to introduce you to the

515
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 2: most famous of these folks, you've got a man named Spartacus.

516
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:31,919
Speaker 2: We don't know much about him. He was almost certainly

517
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 2: from a nomadic tribe in Thrace, like northern Greece. The

518
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:38,840
Speaker 2: most fleshed out version of the backstory that I've heard

519
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:41,439
Speaker 2: is that he served in the Roman army, but then

520
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 2: he deserts and becomes a bandit, and then he was

521
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 2: captured and he was sold into slavery alongside his wife,

522
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:51,199
Speaker 2: who herself was a seer or a magician, or a

523
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:54,520
Speaker 2: sous saith or a prophetess. And the history doesn't have

524
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:57,440
Speaker 2: her name, so typical, why would we bother to write

525
00:25:57,440 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 2: about this? In fact, it took me a very long

526
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 2: time to find that he had a wife.

527
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 4: This incredibly fascinating detail of which I have so many questions.

528
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:06,680
Speaker 4: Nothing written, Okay.

529
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 2: I know, and like she's with him the whole time too,

530
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:14,080
Speaker 2: And I have a fan theory about the end of

531
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:16,399
Speaker 2: all of this and the fact that he's going to

532
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 2: do this whole rebellion alongside his wife rules and we

533
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 2: don't know shit besides that. But one day, while he

534
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,119
Speaker 2: was waiting to be sold, a snake curled up and

535
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 2: slept on his face. Ooh, I believe he was sleeping too.

536
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:31,639
Speaker 2: And his wife sees this and declares it an omen

537
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:35,439
Speaker 2: that he would become powerful and influence world events. And

538
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 2: considering that we are talking about him more than two

539
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:39,840
Speaker 2: thousand years later.

540
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:40,960
Speaker 3: I'd say she was right.

541
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's onto something. Because he had military experience, he

542
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:48,919
Speaker 2: got sold to this school. The presumption is that his

543
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,119
Speaker 2: wife was like, all right, him and his wife, I

544
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 2: don't know whatever she goes to. And in that school,

545
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 2: two hundred slaves got to talking like, maybe we shouldn't

546
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:01,879
Speaker 2: kill and die for the entertainment of people who own us.

547
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 2: Maybe that's a bad deal. Maybe we should try something else,

548
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 2: Maybe we should fight our real enemies. Most of these

549
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 2: folks were Gauls from modern France, and some were Germans

550
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 2: from Germania, and some of them are Thracian, and some

551
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:18,879
Speaker 2: of them are Greek, although there's a chance that he

552
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 2: wasn't actually Thracian like from Thrace, but instead Thracian was

553
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:28,880
Speaker 2: also like a gladiator class, the gladiators who fought with

554
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 2: the Thracian style, which was a big crested helmet and

555
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 2: a small shield and a little small curved blade called

556
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:40,440
Speaker 2: a sika and then like grieves and a loincloth. That's

557
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:45,679
Speaker 2: a Thracian in the gladiator ring. So it's possible that

558
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 2: he's a Thracian from Thrace, and that's what most historians say.

559
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:51,159
Speaker 2: And then there's one historian that was like, yeah, that

560
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:54,119
Speaker 2: might just be what he fought. Be like, I'm from

561
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:58,920
Speaker 2: the quarterback region of the world, you know, and the

562
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,680
Speaker 2: rebellion is discuss but instead of accepting their fate, they

563
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:07,400
Speaker 2: go for it, and seventy four or seventy eight gladiators succeed.

564
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 2: I don't know what happened to the other one hundred

565
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 2: and something.

566
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:09,720
Speaker 3: That's it.

567
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, the impression is that only seventy four or seventy

568
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 2: eight of them go for it, and the other ones

569
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:18,360
Speaker 2: are like, oh, never mind, but I don't know. They

570
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:23,640
Speaker 2: raid the kitchen for cleavers and spits, and they fight

571
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:25,880
Speaker 2: their way out of the school and out to freedom

572
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 2: with fucking kitchen utensils. And they immediately waylay a delivery

573
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 2: of gladiatorial equipment. So now they have all the like

574
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,880
Speaker 2: wacky armor like nets and tridents and shit, and they

575
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 2: are off to the races.

576
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, you've got a bunch of trained warriors that

577
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 4: you have enslaved or are abusing.

578
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 3: What do you the fuck do you think?

579
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 2: What do you think is gonna happen? What?

580
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, you gave them everything they needed.

581
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 2: H I know, surprised this doesn't happen more. Yeah, they

582
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 2: elected three military leaders from Amongks themselves, probably to represent

583
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 2: the different ethnicities of fighters, at least that's one thing

584
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 2: I read. But I read other things that completely deny this.

585
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 2: You have Spartacus who was probably Thracian. There's Onimas who

586
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 2: was Greek, and Crixus, who is German or none of

587
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 2: that's true.

588
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 3: Or yeah, to the best of our knowledge.

589
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, Roman historians mostly focused on Spartacus, and even though

590
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 2: all of the people who wrote about him hated him,

591
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 2: they still kind of had to hand it to him

592
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 2: because he was tactically very successful, and so they write

593
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 2: about how he wasn't a normal Barbarian. He was smart,

594
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 2: he was more like a Greek than a Thracian. And

595
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 2: there's this revolt and just tens of thousands or hundreds

596
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 2: of thousands of people start flocking to it over the

597
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 2: next you guessed it three years. Yeah, And importantly it's

598
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 2: both self emancipated enslaved people and it's free people from

599
00:29:53,240 --> 00:30:00,040
Speaker 2: the working poor, because these people are discovering intersectionality and

600
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 2: are like, what if instead of killing all those people

601
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 2: were on the same side as them.

602
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 4: And they're also starting to see the pattern of how

603
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 4: fucked up their society is strengthen numbers. Also, they're the

604
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 4: ones with the weapons and the training.

605
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there doesn't seem to be the same stories

606
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 2: of mass slaughter about this uprising. The most anti slave

607
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 2: authors did throw in some digs that modern historians are

608
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 2: skeptical of, like there's this whole thing where at one

609
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 2: of their funerals they made a bunch of Roman soldiers

610
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 2: fight to the death, But that was only in one account,

611
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 2: and it was in the account that is like the

612
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 2: most accused of just making shit up.

613
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 4: I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if there was some

614
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 4: amount of it. But also everything is grain as salt totally.

615
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 2: While the uprising is growing, the local Kapuin government sends

616
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 2: out a hasty militia of a few thousand people, and

617
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 2: the rebels just smashed the shit out of it. This

618
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 2: is before they have hundreds of thousands of people. That's eventually,

619
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 2: And it's not just fighters who are part of this revolt.

620
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 2: I think this is part of why some of the

621
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 2: numbers are muddy. The implication is that women largely didn't fight,

622
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 2: but there were women and children and disabled folks who

623
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:10,440
Speaker 2: were all part of this rebellion, helping make it happen.

624
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 2: Because obviously an army marches on its stomach, and you know,

625
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 2: the logistics and the care and all of these things

626
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 2: are just as important. And instead of having a king

627
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 2: and a kingdom, the rebels start sharing all the spoils

628
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 2: of war equally, and this brings even more people out.

629
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 2: But they took things even more radical than that. Specifically,

630
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 2: no one kept money.

631
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 3: Hmm, all those coinage gone.

632
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 2: They fucking hate coins. All the precious metals and coins

633
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 2: that they capture they immediately trade away for supplies for

634
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 2: the common good. So like you go to a raid

635
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 2: or you fight the army, that's trying to kill you,

636
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 2: and you kill them all or drive them away or

637
00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 2: whatever the fuck you got. All this stuff you keep,

638
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 2: all the weapons in armor, all the food, all the

639
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 2: stuff you can use, and the stuff that is only

640
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 2: abstractly valuable they don't use, and instead they immediately trade

641
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 2: away for stuff that they can use. Most of these

642
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 2: people have been from far away lands, and they've been

643
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 2: captured from places where coinage is new and distrusted and

644
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:22,760
Speaker 2: seen as this like weapon of their enemy. People are

645
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 2: aware of how coinage made the rich richer and the

646
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 2: powerful more powerful.

647
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 1: So.

648
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 2: They probably didn't like it. This is historians inferring there's

649
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 2: no one who wrote like Spartacus said, we hate money,

650
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 2: you know.

651
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 3: Right.

652
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:40,480
Speaker 2: Meanwhile, Rome got three thousand poorly trained soldiers together in

653
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 2: a hurry and throw them against Spartacus because they're busy

654
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 2: with wars elsewhere. And the Roman soldiers they laid siege

655
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 2: to the rebels on the mountaintop. This is again when

656
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 2: they're still just getting going and there's only one way

657
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 2: up to the top of this mountaintop and they block

658
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 2: it off and they're like, hahaha, we've got those gladiators

659
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 2: right where we want them, but the crafty gladiators and

660
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 2: their friends got crafty and they made ladders out of

661
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 2: the vines on the mountain, and then they climbed down,

662
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 2: and then a guy up on top like threw all

663
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 2: the weapons down to them because they didn't climb with

664
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:13,719
Speaker 2: all the weapons, and then the dude climbed down himself

665
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 2: at the end of it. And then they came back

666
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 2: around and surrounded the enemy and scared the enemy away,

667
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 2: and they all ran and left all the loot. So

668
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 2: now they have even more weapons, and they do apparently

669
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 2: ditch all the gladiator weapons right away. They're like these suck.

670
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 2: Fuck they're too cumbersome. Yeah, like fuck fighting with a trident, Yeah,

671
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 2: this is the war. I want a Gladius or whatever

672
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:37,719
Speaker 2: the fuck nice in a pinch, but yeah, yeah, totally,

673
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 2: you're fighting a lion. Maybe a trident and a net

674
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 2: is okay, you know. Then Rome sends another force, which

675
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 2: for whatever reason, Rome splits into two historians who like

676
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:50,760
Speaker 2: doing the blow by blow or like, and then this

677
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 2: was dumb, and then they split their force into two,

678
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 2: and so the rebels just like beat one and then

679
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 2: the other, and they started riding around and doing banditry

680
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 2: or liberation, and depending on.

681
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 3: Who's who's telling the story.

682
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, but people from these towns tended to join on Moss,

683
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:13,080
Speaker 2: so they're not running around massacring. They're running around being like, yo,

684
00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 2: it's up. You hate this system, and they're like, we

685
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:17,799
Speaker 2: do hate this system. Yeah, And you get a lot

686
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 2: of shepherds with horses, and suddenly they've got fucking cavalry

687
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 2: and they have sixty thousand soldiers or seventy thousand soldiers

688
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 2: or one hundred and forty thousand soldiers or two.

689
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:28,239
Speaker 3: Hundred and eighty townsend you're talking to.

690
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 2: I know, reading ancient shit is funny. They've got a

691
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 2: lot of people, and they begin to control whole wide

692
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 2: areas of southern Italy, and the next two things I

693
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:41,840
Speaker 2: want to talk about. I'm a little bit blurry between

694
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 2: these two things. There's a war, part of the war

695
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:46,720
Speaker 2: where they're fighting, and there's also this society that they build.

696
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:52,480
Speaker 2: And I can't promise you exactly when all of these

697
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 2: things are interrelating and how often the troops are home

698
00:34:56,520 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 2: during this rebellion. I don't know exactly time wise what's happening,

699
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 2: because literally every historian but one that I have found

700
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:07,840
Speaker 2: is only concerned with the war part. I'm more interested

701
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 2: in the society part. Do you know what makes us

702
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 2: a society a society? Besides stuttering podcasts? It is podcasts.

703
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 2: You can't have civilization. That is how people define civilization

704
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 2: is the existence of podcasts. And do you know what

705
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:25,000
Speaker 2: makes podcasts possible?

706
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:26,360
Speaker 3: Podcasters?

707
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 2: That's true? And do you know what allows them to

708
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 2: eat food and feed their dogs?

709
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:31,920
Speaker 3: Coins?

710
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:37,799
Speaker 2: It is it's coinage stamped with our imperial rulers, like,

711
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 2: for example, the one dollar bill, where there's a man

712
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 2: who stole the teeth out of enslaved people and put

713
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:43,799
Speaker 2: them in his own face.

714
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 3: For example, that hero. Yeah, that American hero.

715
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:55,279
Speaker 2: And here's some ads erback back.

716
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 4: No, I was just muttering to myself about AI four fathers,

717
00:35:58,800 --> 00:35:59,640
Speaker 4: fuck this place.

718
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 2: We're back, we are back. There was a city called

719
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 2: Thurye and it's kind of in the arch of the

720
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 2: foot at the boot of Italy. This has been a

721
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:13,360
Speaker 2: very useful metaphor for me.

722
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 4: I pulled up the picture of Italy, so every time

723
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 4: you do this, I'm looking at it.

724
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 3: I'm like, uh huh, yep.

725
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:22,279
Speaker 2: Yeah. And it had actually been started as an Athenian

726
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 2: colony a few hundred years earlier, but it had been

727
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 2: Roman for a while by the year seventy two BCE,

728
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:31,600
Speaker 2: when the rebels took the city, and even the historians

729
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 2: who kind of hated Spartacus admitted they did not slaughter

730
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 2: the town. They formed a new society there that included

731
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 2: its original inhabitants, which is has got to be wild.

732
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:44,359
Speaker 2: You're just like a poor person hanging out and you're

733
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:46,839
Speaker 2: like small town on the coast, and then you're like, oh,

734
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 2: here's seventy thousand armed rebels, warriors rebels. Yeah, well, but honestly,

735
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 2: life's better now that they're here.

736
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:56,920
Speaker 3: And they're not trying to enslave me.

737
00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:01,959
Speaker 2: Yeah. And there's there's three things we know about this town.

738
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 2: One they rejected money, like we talked about. Two, they

739
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:11,840
Speaker 2: didn't have leaders, and the third one is no sexual violence.

740
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 2: But we're going to talk about number two first, because

741
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:20,240
Speaker 2: Spartacus and the other generals were military leaders, not political leaders,

742
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:22,360
Speaker 2: and there's either three or five of them. I suspect

743
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:26,400
Speaker 2: it changed over time. People talk about two kinds of power.

744
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:30,319
Speaker 2: You have justified leadership. There's a quote that I think

745
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 2: is from Bakunin that's something like to keep with his

746
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 2: boot metaphor. In matters of boot making, I refer to

747
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:40,360
Speaker 2: the authority of the cobbler, right, that's a form of authority.

748
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:44,920
Speaker 2: Justified leadership, to quote the author Christopher Zeikman, is quote

749
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:48,800
Speaker 2: the power to organize people who voluntarily follow, as compared

750
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 2: to inherent power over other people. Justified leadership is voluntarily accepted, situational,

751
00:37:55,320 --> 00:38:01,239
Speaker 2: and limited to specialist expertise. So if I'm going off

752
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 2: to war, maybe the general is in charge of that, because.

753
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,720
Speaker 3: I would think so, yeah, I'm not generally.

754
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:10,279
Speaker 2: Yeah no, and it's not for me. It's someone who

755
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:13,759
Speaker 2: plays infinite amounts of strategy video games who's going to

756
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:15,879
Speaker 2: be in charge. It's going to be fine.

757
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:17,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, oh yeah, I would trust them for sure.

758
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:22,800
Speaker 2: The only thing like laws that they had in thirty

759
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 2: that I am aware of, were leveling mechanisms, things that

760
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:31,840
Speaker 2: preserved egalitarianism, like the thing about no loot and no

761
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 2: way of exerting power over other people.

762
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:37,800
Speaker 3: Oh no, Margaret, this all sounds pretty woke.

763
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:41,319
Speaker 2: Does it sound like? Based on what I know about

764
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 2: the Greek at least understanding of the word anarchia, maybe

765
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 2: they would likely have called their town's system anarchy. It's

766
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 2: the same word in Latin, it's just spelled different. Yeah,

767
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 2: And if this is true, and this is my inference here,

768
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 2: I have not read as historian that said they called

769
00:38:56,080 --> 00:39:00,880
Speaker 2: it anarchia, but everything around it makes me believe that

770
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 2: it is perfectly possible that they would have been like, oh,

771
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 2: we have a society without leaders. It's a there's a

772
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:06,279
Speaker 2: word for that.

773
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:07,600
Speaker 3: It's definitely possible.

774
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 2: If so, this is the oldest self styled anarchist society

775
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:15,799
Speaker 2: I found. And they don't lack for organization because they

776
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 2: fed and cared for themselves and mobilized for war and defense.

777
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:24,800
Speaker 2: And you can't not have organization and feed one hundred

778
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 2: thousand people for three years.

779
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 3: And do this successfully.

780
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:30,319
Speaker 2: No, absolutely not, because the system of slavery was so

781
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:33,279
Speaker 2: vast and rome, and because these people didn't exclude the

782
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:37,560
Speaker 2: freeborn poor. You have people who can do everything in

783
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:40,959
Speaker 2: this town. You have gladiators who know how to fight.

784
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 2: You have weavers who make stuff, including makeshift shields. You

785
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:48,319
Speaker 2: have agricultural workers who grow food. Some women became priestesses.

786
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:52,960
Speaker 2: Doctors did doctoring, chefs did chefing. You had actors and

787
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:55,879
Speaker 2: artisans and teachers. Can you imagine the plays that they

788
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:57,360
Speaker 2: put on incredible.

789
00:39:57,400 --> 00:39:59,799
Speaker 4: I mean, I would like to go live there, I know,

790
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:04,280
Speaker 4: for a year before I know it falls just yeah,

791
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:04,839
Speaker 4: one year.

792
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:08,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, Although it's interesting, there's a decent chance that this

793
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:14,240
Speaker 2: society actually outlives the rebellion by at least ten years, really,

794
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:17,880
Speaker 2: and we'll talk about that later. And people who escaped

795
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:19,839
Speaker 2: and got there showed up with everything that they could

796
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:22,799
Speaker 2: steal from the people who used to own them. They

797
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:25,840
Speaker 2: likely use democratic methods that came from all over the world,

798
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:28,239
Speaker 2: like the Germanic folks might have brought the folk moot,

799
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:30,880
Speaker 2: which is a way of like decision making and everyone

800
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:33,960
Speaker 2: getting together and talking about stuff. But we don't actually

801
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:36,360
Speaker 2: know how they govern themselves besides what we can infer

802
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:38,840
Speaker 2: from the various democratic models from all the places that

803
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:42,400
Speaker 2: they're from. And the third thing I know is that

804
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:46,319
Speaker 2: the rebels banned sexual violence, not just in their own community,

805
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:52,279
Speaker 2: but during war. And this is really odd for the time, Like, yeah,

806
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:54,919
Speaker 2: I think it was kind of seen as like, well,

807
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 2: at least I get to go do this horrible thing

808
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 2: if I go to war.

809
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 4: Right, you know, it wasn't viewed the way that we

810
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:03,799
Speaker 4: view it now by a long shot, And it is

811
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:06,680
Speaker 4: very fascinating to me that that is a priority.

812
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:08,799
Speaker 3: I respect it.

813
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:13,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty woke it is. This is the wokest army

814
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:18,279
Speaker 2: and ah yeah, and they share beat the odds, so

815
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:22,480
Speaker 2: most of them. If you're an escaped slave, you've probably

816
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 2: experienced sexual violence, regardless of your gender, whether in the

817
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:29,919
Speaker 2: wars that led to your enslavement or while enslaved, because

818
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:32,440
Speaker 2: it was absolutely normal and legal and fine in Roman

819
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:36,239
Speaker 2: society to assault the people that you owned. And so

820
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:38,680
Speaker 2: they didn't want any of that, and they were mostly

821
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:42,440
Speaker 2: really cool. The only two things that I know that

822
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:44,680
Speaker 2: I can hold against them. There's almost certainly way more

823
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,880
Speaker 2: bad things too. I don't know everything about gender in

824
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:50,120
Speaker 2: the society. I say that I spent a long time

825
00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:50,960
Speaker 2: reading about it, but.

826
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:52,840
Speaker 4: You probably know more than the average person.

827
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:55,480
Speaker 2: Probably at least right now, three weeks from now, I

828
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:58,239
Speaker 2: won't remember all of it. But Rome had fucked up

829
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 2: superstitions around menstruation. You have all these Roman men writing

830
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:06,239
Speaker 2: that if menstruating people touch plants, the plants will wither. Oh,

831
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:10,359
Speaker 2: come on, and like menstruating women can't be anywhere near

832
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:15,399
Speaker 2: the line exactly. Women are all witches and god, it's

833
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:18,319
Speaker 2: so funny. Actually, right before all this happened. There was

834
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:21,760
Speaker 2: this right wing senator, I think maybe console in Rome,

835
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 2: who was just such a modern right wing dude, and

836
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:30,920
Speaker 2: he specifically he stopped the giving of free grain to

837
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:34,319
Speaker 2: poor people in the cities, hoping it would clear out

838
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:38,439
Speaker 2: the cities of the riff wrath. Yeah, and he also, Oh,

839
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 2: there's some other thing he did that I was like

840
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:42,800
Speaker 2: thinking about, but I can't remember it right now. Anyway,

841
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:47,920
Speaker 2: he's not in the script. He sucked whatever he sucked. Okay.

842
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:51,760
Speaker 2: Another thing that menstruating people could do with their terrible,

843
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:56,800
Speaker 2: cursed womanly fingers is that if men's training people touched

844
00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 2: the color purple, which was like a rare die associated

845
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:03,040
Speaker 2: with nobility, it would tarnish the purple.

846
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 1: Oh.

847
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 2: I don't even think they're even writing about the blood part.

848
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:10,400
Speaker 2: I think they're just like with their fingers.

849
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:12,839
Speaker 3: There's whatever is going on in our body's great.

850
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, cool, which is kind of cool because then women

851
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:18,120
Speaker 2: are a threat to nobility. Yeah, that's fine by me.

852
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:23,520
Speaker 2: And in Thury, menstruating women were kept separated from everyone

853
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 2: else in traditional Roman style. It also might have been

854
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 2: traditional style in every culture they were from. I don't know.

855
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:32,360
Speaker 2: I have not looked up the superstitions of menstruation anywhere,

856
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:33,279
Speaker 2: but rome to.

857
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:35,320
Speaker 4: Be fair, when I'm menstruating, I don't really want to

858
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:36,600
Speaker 4: be around anybody I know.

859
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:38,360
Speaker 2: I also wonder like how much of that was like

860
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:40,879
Speaker 2: people being like I want to go over that hut.

861
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:41,759
Speaker 3: I don't feel good.

862
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:44,879
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go laid down. Yeah, I, as a woman

863
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 2: who doesn't menstraight bow out of this part of it.

864
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:50,440
Speaker 4: I mean it's possible, but I also don't want to

865
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:52,320
Speaker 4: get told to go any specific place.

866
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 2: Also ever totally. And they also might have been doing

867
00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 2: human sacrifice in theory. But what's interesting is that like

868
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 2: when the rebels would like ritualistically kill Roman prisoners, Like

869
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 2: there's this moment where they might have killed three hundred

870
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:15,680
Speaker 2: prisoners and it's presented as this like horrible pagan sacrifice.

871
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:17,600
Speaker 2: Oh that was the thing that the guy did. Sorry

872
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 2: the right wing dude. He complained about giving food to

873
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 2: poor people, and he complained about superstition of witchcraft and

874
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:29,680
Speaker 2: like fake religion, even though this was hundreds of years

875
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:34,359
Speaker 2: before Wow Christianity. Like that's that he's complaining about the

876
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:39,480
Speaker 2: pagan barbarians and the witches even though he's a fucking pagan.

877
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:42,280
Speaker 2: I love it. I love it so much wild.

878
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:44,920
Speaker 3: Okay, So the witchcraft, that's what reminded you.

879
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:49,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, so they were complaining about witches, and so when

880
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:51,960
Speaker 2: they would kill three hundred of their prisoners, this is

881
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:56,640
Speaker 2: scene as like this barbaric human sacrifice. When the Romans

882
00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 2: crucify six thousand of them later, that's not sacrifice. Oh no,

883
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:05,680
Speaker 2: that's just punishment against property.

884
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:06,120
Speaker 1: You know.

885
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:16,240
Speaker 2: So like whatever, I'm calling you a hypocrite seventy BCE Rome, good, sir, Yeah,

886
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:19,200
Speaker 2: you sir, are a hypocrite. Yeah, okay, So back to

887
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:22,879
Speaker 2: the war. Historians are really confused about what happened next

888
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:25,239
Speaker 2: in the war, not like where each army went, but

889
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:28,000
Speaker 2: why it happened, because if you try to look at

890
00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:30,759
Speaker 2: it like one guy is running the show, none of

891
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 2: it makes sense. Mostly ancient historians say that Spartacus tried

892
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:37,120
Speaker 2: to lead everyone to freedom over the Alps to go

893
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:38,960
Speaker 2: home because he was good and noble and wanted to

894
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:42,040
Speaker 2: do that instead of attacking Rome. But the men rebelled

895
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:45,800
Speaker 2: and wanted to stay and be horrible bandits or whatever.

896
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:50,239
Speaker 2: Fucking bullshit, because they sure a shit marched all the

897
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 2: way to the Alps out of the boot and they

898
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:58,359
Speaker 2: defeated every army sent to stop them, and then they

899
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 2: turned around and march back south. And here's what I

900
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:05,040
Speaker 2: think happened. This is Margaret pretending she's a historian, even

901
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:09,240
Speaker 2: though she's a pop history educator. I think what happened

902
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 2: is that everyone who wanted to go home to Gaul

903
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:14,560
Speaker 2: or Germania or Thrace or whatever went home and they

904
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:17,600
Speaker 2: were like all right. I think that they sat around

905
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:18,560
Speaker 2: they were like, well, do you want to go home

906
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:20,279
Speaker 2: or do you want to stay and fight? And some

907
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:21,840
Speaker 2: people were like, we want to stay and fight. Some

908
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:23,799
Speaker 2: people were like, well, we want to go home. And

909
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:28,520
Speaker 2: so they walked their friends home. Oh, they took them

910
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:31,120
Speaker 2: all the way to the fucking Alps, and they said,

911
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:36,080
Speaker 2: all right, you're free. We freed ourselves and you can

912
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:39,720
Speaker 2: go home. But I'm going to go kill more Romans. Right,

913
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:43,960
Speaker 2: So they kept going. This is when they supposedly sacrificed

914
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:47,840
Speaker 2: three hundred Roman prisoners to their gods. They're horrible pagan

915
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:51,000
Speaker 2: gods as compared to the good non pagan gods of

916
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:55,480
Speaker 2: Pagan Roman. Yeah. So you ever heard of the word decimate?

917
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:56,760
Speaker 4: Yeah?

918
00:46:57,239 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 2: Do you know what it means historically?

919
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 3: I guess not, but I can almost guarantee, I don't.

920
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:05,240
Speaker 2: So you know how it has that word like decimal,

921
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:07,600
Speaker 2: like what it sounds like ten?

922
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:08,240
Speaker 3: Yeah?

923
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:12,759
Speaker 2: Right, So the word decimate comes from this idea from

924
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:14,480
Speaker 2: I think Rome and Rome certainly did it.

925
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 1: Here.

926
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:17,920
Speaker 2: You take every group of ten soldiers, you have them

927
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:21,400
Speaker 2: draw lots. The person who draws the short lot is

928
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:25,399
Speaker 2: killed by the other nine. What that's what you do

929
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:29,880
Speaker 2: to your own army if your army has been behaving poorly,

930
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 2: you decimate your own army.

931
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:33,359
Speaker 3: Oh I don't like this.

932
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 2: No, and this was to restore Roman discipline. So speaking

933
00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:44,799
Speaker 2: of unfree people in various ways. So it's possible that

934
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:49,120
Speaker 2: Spartacus and the rebels sacrifice three hundred Romans. Then they

935
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:52,840
Speaker 2: fucking decimated their own ranks, which was probably in the like,

936
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 2: h it's ten. I'm guessing that the army is like

937
00:47:57,480 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 2: e laite a couple, all right, you talk about like

938
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:03,839
Speaker 2: fifteen hundred people probably that's my complete random guess. Why

939
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:07,399
Speaker 2: would you do that to make sure that no one

940
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:12,440
Speaker 2: ever misbehaves ever again? Because they care about discipline and

941
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:13,399
Speaker 2: like control.

942
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:16,920
Speaker 4: Okay, So it's like making an example in such a

943
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:18,719
Speaker 4: way where you're okay.

944
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:21,440
Speaker 2: It's like whenever you watch a movie and the evil

945
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:23,840
Speaker 2: bad guy is so evil that he kills his own minion,

946
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:26,239
Speaker 2: and you're like, that's dumb. No one would do that,

947
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:28,319
Speaker 2: And you're like, ah, Romans would.

948
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:31,959
Speaker 3: Romans would. Yeah, I mean, I guess I could see.

949
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:34,640
Speaker 3: I guess I could see that happening, just not so

950
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:35,400
Speaker 3: many people.

951
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:36,879
Speaker 2: Oh, I know, an entire army one in time.

952
00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:39,960
Speaker 4: I wouldn't want to lose that many. That's so many people.

953
00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:43,040
Speaker 4: It seems like shooting yourself in the foot big time.

954
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:46,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, speaking of the foot.

955
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:48,160
Speaker 3: Of a boot, to the hacky sack, kicker, they're going.

956
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:50,640
Speaker 2: To go back to the hacky sack. Actually, the rebels

957
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:53,040
Speaker 2: they march all the way to the toe of the boot.

958
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:54,440
Speaker 2: They've gone all the way up to the Alps from

959
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:55,960
Speaker 2: the south, and then they turn around and go all

960
00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:58,080
Speaker 2: the way back, and so people are like, they're marching

961
00:48:58,120 --> 00:48:59,880
Speaker 2: on Rome. But they did march on Rome. They went

962
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:02,359
Speaker 2: down because they were trying to get to Sicily, because

963
00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:04,400
Speaker 2: they were like, oh, that place is prime place for

964
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:07,279
Speaker 2: a revolt. They just had two of them, We're going

965
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:09,279
Speaker 2: to go there. And so they get to the toe

966
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:10,640
Speaker 2: of the boot and they hang out with some pirates

967
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:12,080
Speaker 2: and they're like, yo, we'll pay you to drive us

968
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:15,239
Speaker 2: over there, because they totally use the word drive and yo,

969
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 2: yeah exactly. And then the pirates were like, yeah, we'll

970
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:20,560
Speaker 2: take your money. And then the pirates fucked off with

971
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:22,680
Speaker 2: their money and never took them to Sicily.

972
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 3: Because they're pirates.

973
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:27,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so they turned back. But then Rome had

974
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:30,760
Speaker 2: literally built a sixty kilometer long wall across the narrow

975
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:35,160
Speaker 2: part of the toe of Italy in order to stop them. Oh,

976
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:37,080
Speaker 2: and so the rebels were trapped and then they waited

977
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:40,840
Speaker 2: until a snowstorm and then they broke free and it

978
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:43,040
Speaker 2: was like a terrible cost. Only a third of them

979
00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:44,399
Speaker 2: made it. I don't know if the other third state

980
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:46,200
Speaker 2: or two thirds of them died. I actually don't know.

981
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:50,919
Speaker 2: The rebels are finally defeated in one big battle. Maybe

982
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:53,200
Speaker 2: they're tired of guerrilla war and they're looking to get

983
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:57,240
Speaker 2: it over with. That's like what Roman historians are saying.

984
00:49:57,760 --> 00:49:59,480
Speaker 2: I have my weird suspicion. I'll get to it at

985
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:01,520
Speaker 2: the end, but it's just a suspicion. There's no reason

986
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:06,000
Speaker 2: I'm right. And famously even the Roman historians kind of

987
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:10,120
Speaker 2: hand it to the rebels here twelve three hundred rebels

988
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 2: were slain in this battle, and only two had wounds

989
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:19,480
Speaker 2: in their back, so only two had died running the

990
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:24,359
Speaker 2: rest had died fighting. Wow. Another six thousand of them

991
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:28,000
Speaker 2: were captured alive, and they were crucified along the road

992
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:31,919
Speaker 2: between Rome and Capua. So every like thirty meters for

993
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:35,600
Speaker 2: hundreds of miles or whatever the fuck it is, there's

994
00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:37,560
Speaker 2: just a guy and they just leave him there.

995
00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:41,239
Speaker 4: Big industry, Yeah, crucification business back then.

996
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:44,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, but do you know his body? They never found.

997
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:47,480
Speaker 3: Sparta kiss he's still alive.

998
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:51,239
Speaker 2: They never found his body, and so everyone just says, oh,

999
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:54,719
Speaker 2: but he clearly died. Everything I've learned about Rome in

1000
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:58,040
Speaker 2: the past couple months of researching this shit too much,

1001
00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:01,600
Speaker 2: they would have found that motherfucker's body if he was

1002
00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:04,040
Speaker 2: dead there they did that shit. They were like, we're

1003
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:06,640
Speaker 2: gonna find him, behead him, and send his head somewhere,

1004
00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:08,279
Speaker 2: like they cared about this shit.

1005
00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:11,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, they would have wanted to make an example of it,

1006
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:13,320
Speaker 4: to parade him around.

1007
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:17,640
Speaker 2: Yeah. So what I like to believe happened is that

1008
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:18,680
Speaker 2: it just straight up wasn't.

1009
00:51:18,719 --> 00:51:21,920
Speaker 3: At the last battle, he sat that one out.

1010
00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:23,760
Speaker 2: That him and his wife made it back to Fury

1011
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:26,040
Speaker 2: and lived plenty long after that, and it would explain

1012
00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 2: why they did that battle rather than staying Gorilla, right, yeah,

1013
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:34,120
Speaker 2: and just going and going and fighting the superior force

1014
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:38,440
Speaker 2: and open combat. Again, there's no reason to believe this,

1015
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 2: and it.

1016
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:41,799
Speaker 3: Would explain why they lost because he wasn't there.

1017
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:43,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was a good tactician.

1018
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:46,040
Speaker 3: That's interesting.

1019
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:49,760
Speaker 4: I like this theory that they lived happily ever after.

1020
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:54,800
Speaker 2: Well, possibly in theory, because for the next ten years

1021
00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:58,120
Speaker 2: it was like a rebellious society. The Senate had to

1022
00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:01,760
Speaker 2: send another arm me to go put down a rebellion

1023
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:03,520
Speaker 2: there ten years later in sixty BCE.

1024
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:05,200
Speaker 3: It's possible.

1025
00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:09,240
Speaker 2: And even if it's not, maybe he went home to Thrace.

1026
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:12,440
Speaker 2: That would rule. Yeah, And the people in Thury were

1027
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:15,399
Speaker 2: just like they remembered freedom. They were like, well, it's

1028
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:18,239
Speaker 2: pretty nice when we didn't have coins or.

1029
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:22,080
Speaker 3: Rape they were able to continue it. Yeah, I'd love

1030
00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:23,719
Speaker 3: to have no coins or rape.

1031
00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:24,000
Speaker 1: I know.

1032
00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:26,960
Speaker 2: And so the guy who led the army that defeated him,

1033
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:29,440
Speaker 2: and I think the guy who did the decimation, but

1034
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:31,359
Speaker 2: I actually can't remember because I mostly didn't write down

1035
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:33,719
Speaker 2: the various Roman dude's names because they all annoy me.

1036
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:37,520
Speaker 2: But this guy's so bad that I'm including his name,

1037
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:44,239
Speaker 2: Marcus Crassus, and he was this capitalist guy before capitalism.

1038
00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:48,760
Speaker 2: He made his fortune buying and selling property, and specifically

1039
00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:52,120
Speaker 2: this is cartoon villain shit. He ran a fire brigade

1040
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:55,719
Speaker 2: where when a fire broke out, they would show up

1041
00:52:55,920 --> 00:53:00,000
Speaker 2: and be like, that's an awful nice house you got, shamous,

1042
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:02,920
Speaker 2: it's on fire, not worth a lot. While it's on fire,

1043
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:06,120
Speaker 2: you want to sell it to me. If you don't

1044
00:53:06,160 --> 00:53:08,839
Speaker 2: sell it to me at a deep discount, I'm gonna

1045
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:09,680
Speaker 2: watch it burn down.

1046
00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:10,879
Speaker 4: Fuck this guy.

1047
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:13,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, they only put out fires if you sold them

1048
00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:16,680
Speaker 2: your house. God, imagine like your house is on fire

1049
00:53:16,719 --> 00:53:17,799
Speaker 2: and the fire department shows up.

1050
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:21,080
Speaker 4: See, things do get better over time, gradually. At least

1051
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:23,000
Speaker 4: that's not how our fire department works.

1052
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:26,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. Well, what's funny is that, like nineteenth century

1053
00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:28,600
Speaker 2: New York City fire departments would like fist fight each

1054
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:30,160
Speaker 2: other over who got to put out the fire. And

1055
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:33,680
Speaker 2: there was like a lot of corruption involved in fire departments.

1056
00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:35,840
Speaker 2: I don't know as much about this history. This is

1057
00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:37,359
Speaker 2: like gangs in New York.

1058
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:42,120
Speaker 4: Shit, another fascinating thing to dive into at some point.

1059
00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:47,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so Meanwhile, after the Third Servile War, slave

1060
00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:51,960
Speaker 2: revolts terrified the land owners so much that and this

1061
00:53:52,040 --> 00:53:55,680
Speaker 2: seems to be causing effect, they started using tenant farmers

1062
00:53:55,719 --> 00:53:59,880
Speaker 2: instead work the land and give me a cut. And

1063
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:03,920
Speaker 2: this fundamentally changed the Roman economy. Though it didn't end slavery,

1064
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:07,360
Speaker 2: it moved more enslaved people towards slightly nicer occupations like

1065
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:11,600
Speaker 2: workshops and in the home. But the other thing that

1066
00:54:11,719 --> 00:54:14,439
Speaker 2: also caused this, or where is the cause and effect here,

1067
00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:18,279
Speaker 2: is that international conquest was kind of done for about

1068
00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:23,200
Speaker 2: one hundred years, and so there wasn't this like steady

1069
00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:26,280
Speaker 2: fresh supply of cheap enslaved people.

1070
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:27,160
Speaker 3: Right.

1071
00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:31,360
Speaker 2: So, yeah, that's the story of Spartacus in the Commune

1072
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:31,840
Speaker 2: of Thiry.

1073
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:36,520
Speaker 4: Fascinating. There are at least five movies buried in there. Yeah,

1074
00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:40,759
Speaker 4: different fascinating stories. I really want to know more about

1075
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:45,319
Speaker 4: Spartacus's wife and the female gladiators I.

1076
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:48,320
Speaker 3: Know, and all of it very very interesting.

1077
00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:51,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the women fighting in the Second Servile War, like.

1078
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:55,200
Speaker 3: Yes, that was right. Yeah, what a journey.

1079
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:59,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you, Margaret, thank you for teaching me about Spotagus.

1080
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:02,319
Speaker 2: Thanks for coming along. I always knew I was going

1081
00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:04,879
Speaker 2: to do Spartacus one day, and I'm glad that it's

1082
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:08,680
Speaker 2: not just that he was cooler than I thought. It's

1083
00:55:08,719 --> 00:55:11,880
Speaker 2: that he's less a part of the story than I thought. Yeah,

1084
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:14,800
Speaker 2: and that makes me happy, Like and I think it

1085
00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:18,280
Speaker 2: would have made him happy because he did not become

1086
00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:20,359
Speaker 2: a king. He didn't want to.

1087
00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:25,279
Speaker 4: No, the society that they created did not reflect that

1088
00:55:25,360 --> 00:55:30,920
Speaker 4: at all. It reflected a group effort. It reflected community,

1089
00:55:31,160 --> 00:55:35,799
Speaker 4: creating a communal space where people can live, can just that,

1090
00:55:36,040 --> 00:55:40,759
Speaker 4: just live, be alive, have your own autonomy and you know,

1091
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:44,520
Speaker 4: depending on each other. It's quite beautiful. I had no

1092
00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:49,080
Speaker 4: idea that any of this was associated with Spartacus. Now

1093
00:55:49,080 --> 00:55:50,680
Speaker 4: I do think that we are Spartacus.

1094
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:54,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, you are Spartacus that now you have learned. Yeah, well,

1095
00:55:54,440 --> 00:55:56,600
Speaker 2: if people want to learn about the things that are happening,

1096
00:55:57,120 --> 00:56:00,680
Speaker 2: not two thousand and ninety years ago. Do you have

1097
00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:01,520
Speaker 2: any suggestions.

1098
00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:04,799
Speaker 4: There's not very many news podcasts out there. It's a

1099
00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:07,880
Speaker 4: good thing that I host one. Yes, oh good.

1100
00:56:08,200 --> 00:56:09,480
Speaker 3: You can check us out.

1101
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:12,680
Speaker 4: Over at some More News, which I run with Cody Johnston.

1102
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:15,040
Speaker 4: We've got the Some More News main show, which you

1103
00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:17,799
Speaker 4: can watch on YouTube, urn your podcast feed, or we've

1104
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:20,280
Speaker 4: got even more news, which we do two times a week,

1105
00:56:20,560 --> 00:56:24,680
Speaker 4: and next year there will be live streams. I've been told,

1106
00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:28,440
Speaker 4: Hell yeah, hell yeah, lots of news going on over there.

1107
00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:34,240
Speaker 2: Well, I have a short story coming out next January.

1108
00:56:34,560 --> 00:56:37,080
Speaker 2: It is in the Daniel Kine series. It is sort

1109
00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:39,440
Speaker 2: of part of the third book of that series. But

1110
00:56:39,960 --> 00:56:42,040
Speaker 2: I know that sounds like a thing attached to a

1111
00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:44,680
Speaker 2: third book in a series, but you might like that series.

1112
00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:46,719
Speaker 2: It's called the Daniel Kine Series. The third book is

1113
00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:48,600
Speaker 2: called The Immortal Choir Holds Every Voice, and it's the

1114
00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:50,919
Speaker 2: most recent book I wrote, or the most recent book

1115
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:55,080
Speaker 2: that's come out. But I promised all the Kickstarter backers

1116
00:56:55,160 --> 00:56:57,160
Speaker 2: that I would give them a new short story that

1117
00:56:57,280 --> 00:57:00,279
Speaker 2: could have fit into that book, and that come out

1118
00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:02,720
Speaker 2: in January. And so if you backed it on Kickstarter,

1119
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:06,040
Speaker 2: you're going to get that for free digitally. But if

1120
00:57:06,040 --> 00:57:08,960
Speaker 2: you want the print version of it, the publisher I

1121
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:12,279
Speaker 2: work with, called Strangers in Tangle Wilderness, puts out a

1122
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:15,880
Speaker 2: mailing once a month to our Patreon backers, And so

1123
00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:19,360
Speaker 2: if you sign up before December thirty, first ten dollars

1124
00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:21,200
Speaker 2: a month, we will mail you a zine anywhere in

1125
00:57:21,240 --> 00:57:24,120
Speaker 2: the world and that happens every month, but the January

1126
00:57:24,160 --> 00:57:26,880
Speaker 2: one is a particularly large envelope and one of the

1127
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:30,240
Speaker 2: zines in that package is going to be called and

1128
00:57:30,360 --> 00:57:33,560
Speaker 2: the Clean Bones Gone, and it is a story by

1129
00:57:33,600 --> 00:57:40,720
Speaker 2: Doomsday about the husband she murdered. So cool yeah, z zines.

1130
00:57:41,280 --> 00:57:44,520
Speaker 2: I love it all right, I'll talk to everyone soon.

1131
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:49,480
Speaker 1: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of

1132
00:57:49,520 --> 00:57:52,640
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media,

1133
00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:56,040
Speaker 1: visit our website Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out

1134
00:57:56,120 --> 00:57:57,880
Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio app I'm.

1135
00:57:57,680 --> 00:58:00,320
Speaker 3: A Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast apps.

1136
00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:04,760
Speaker 1: MHM