1
00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,080
Speaker 1: Have you boosted your business with Lenovo Pro yet. Become

2
00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:06,160
Speaker 1: a Lenovo Pro member for free today and unlock access

3
00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:10,239
Speaker 1: to Lenovo's exclusive business store for technology expert advisors and

4
00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:14,160
Speaker 1: essential products and services designed just for you. Visit Lenovo

5
00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:16,800
Speaker 1: dot com slash Lenovo Pro to sign up for free.

6
00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:19,200
Speaker 1: That's Lenovo dot Com slash Lenovo.

7
00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:22,279
Speaker 2: Pro Lenovo Lanovo.

8
00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:25,440
Speaker 1: Unlock new AI experiences with Lenovo's think Pad x one

9
00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:27,840
Speaker 1: carbon powered by Intel Core ultraprocessors.

10
00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:33,320
Speaker 3: If you love iPhone, you'll love Apple Card. It's the

11
00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:37,280
Speaker 3: credit card designed for iPhone. It gives you unlimited daily

12
00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:40,360
Speaker 3: cash back that can earn four point four zero percent

13
00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:43,320
Speaker 3: annual percentage yield. When you open a high yield savings

14
00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:46,880
Speaker 3: account through Applecard, apply for Applecard in the wallet app

15
00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:50,520
Speaker 3: subject to credit approval. Savings is available to Applecard owners

16
00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:53,800
Speaker 3: subject to eligibility. Apple Card and Savings by Goldman Sachs

17
00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:57,280
Speaker 3: Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch Member, FDIC terms and

18
00:00:57,360 --> 00:00:59,160
Speaker 3: more at applecard dot com.

19
00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:02,000
Speaker 4: When it comes to travel bags and backpacks, colorful and

20
00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:04,800
Speaker 4: unique options are hard to come by. Luckily, Babboon to

21
00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:07,360
Speaker 4: the Moon has you covered. Baboon to the Moon's bags

22
00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:09,560
Speaker 4: are made for going places near and far, and for

23
00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:12,160
Speaker 4: making you the brightest star at baggage claim made with

24
00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:16,000
Speaker 4: super durable materials in a limited lifetime warranty, your Baboon

25
00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:18,640
Speaker 4: to the moonbag will join you for all of life's mistrains,

26
00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:22,880
Speaker 4: unexpected range howers, love of first sights and compliments. Check

27
00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:26,119
Speaker 4: them out at babboon toothemoon dot com. Now get lost

28
00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:27,720
Speaker 4: and make the world more colorful.

29
00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:31,120
Speaker 5: Everyone loves getting good advice and staying in the know.

30
00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:34,399
Speaker 5: There's nothing like getting a heads up on something before

31
00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:36,800
Speaker 5: you've even had time to think about whether you need

32
00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:41,440
Speaker 5: or want it. Well. Thankfully, AT and T provides personalized

33
00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:44,600
Speaker 5: recommendations and solutions so you get what's right for you.

34
00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:47,840
Speaker 5: Whether right for you means a plan that's better suited

35
00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:50,559
Speaker 5: for you and your family, or a product that makes

36
00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:54,480
Speaker 5: sense for you and your lifestyle. So relax and let

37
00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:58,960
Speaker 5: AT and T provide proactive recommendations to help empower your

38
00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:01,200
Speaker 5: best connected life.

39
00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:14,919
Speaker 3: Hey Jorge, I'm wondering how you feel about the Midi Chlorians,

40
00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:18,440
Speaker 3: those little critters that give Jedi the ability to interact

41
00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:19,079
Speaker 3: with the Force.

42
00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:24,000
Speaker 2: You mean, in Star Wars. I mostly try to ignore them.

43
00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:27,840
Speaker 2: They're a bit of an awkward, retroactive continuity or redcon

44
00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:29,600
Speaker 2: of the original series.

45
00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:32,480
Speaker 3: MM so you prefer the original approach, where it's like

46
00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:35,600
Speaker 3: more democratic. Anybody can learn the force like yoga.

47
00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:37,239
Speaker 2: You mean like Yoda or yoga.

48
00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:40,400
Speaker 3: I mean like Yoda doing.

49
00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:43,040
Speaker 2: Yoga and like downward facing Jedi.

50
00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:45,560
Speaker 3: That conjured up a pretty awkward mental image.

51
00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:47,800
Speaker 2: How flexible is Yoda? We may never know.

52
00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:49,679
Speaker 3: Well, I'm a fan of the Midi Chlorians. I feel

53
00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:50,880
Speaker 3: like they're more scientific.

54
00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:52,880
Speaker 2: Oh, are you a fan of jar Jar Binks too,

55
00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:55,680
Speaker 2: because I think most people who are in that camp

56
00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:58,040
Speaker 2: are also in the jar Jar Binks camp, but you're not.

57
00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:00,000
Speaker 2: It'sall made up, right, it's not real science.

58
00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:03,120
Speaker 3: I know it's not real science, but it's science error.

59
00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:03,400
Speaker 6: You know.

60
00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:06,720
Speaker 3: It's a better microscopic explanation than just like hand waving

61
00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:07,560
Speaker 3: yoga magic.

62
00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:11,440
Speaker 2: I think the magic in Star Wars is literally handwaving,

63
00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:13,560
Speaker 2: like waving your hands in front of your face, going,

64
00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:15,320
Speaker 2: does this not the signs you're looking for?

65
00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:17,680
Speaker 3: I need the old physics mind trick instead.

66
00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:21,160
Speaker 2: That's right, REDCN, our real universe, not my childhood fantasy.

67
00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:22,320
Speaker 3: That's my job.

68
00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:37,880
Speaker 6: Hi.

69
00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:40,240
Speaker 2: I'm Jorge Am, a cartoonist and the author of Oliver's

70
00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:41,280
Speaker 2: Great Big Universe.

71
00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:44,080
Speaker 3: Hi, I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist, and that means

72
00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:47,480
Speaker 3: my job is to explain away all the apparent magic

73
00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:48,320
Speaker 3: in the universe.

74
00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:50,720
Speaker 2: You have to understand it first, though, don't you. Isn't

75
00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:53,720
Speaker 2: that step one? Or are you just making stuff up?

76
00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:54,960
Speaker 2: Are you? Georgie Lucas seing it?

77
00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:58,280
Speaker 3: I think explaining it away is understanding it. Describing how

78
00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:00,440
Speaker 3: something works in terms of it's like tiny bits and

79
00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:03,240
Speaker 3: how they bump and dance together. That's basically an explanation.

80
00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:05,240
Speaker 2: Or maybe I think you're maybe saying your job is

81
00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:07,320
Speaker 2: to look for explanations.

82
00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:08,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, and sometimes we actually find them.

83
00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:10,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then explain it to other pe books like

84
00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:12,840
Speaker 2: we do in this podcast. So welcome to Daniel and

85
00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:16,440
Speaker 2: Jorge Explain the Universe, a production of iHeartRadio.

86
00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:18,280
Speaker 3: In which we try to take everything in the universe

87
00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:22,039
Speaker 3: that seems unexplainable, that seems magical, and figure out how

88
00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:25,080
Speaker 3: it comes to be, Drill down into its tiny little

89
00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:27,800
Speaker 3: bits and particles, and explain how they bump and dance

90
00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:30,680
Speaker 3: and push on each other to weave themselves together into

91
00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:34,039
Speaker 3: our reality. To explain why yoga feels so good or

92
00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:34,719
Speaker 3: so bad?

93
00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:37,400
Speaker 2: That's right, because it is a marvelous universe out there,

94
00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:41,200
Speaker 2: with giantgaxies moving across at cosmos and stars exploding and

95
00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:43,679
Speaker 2: black holes sucking stuff in, and we're interested in knowing

96
00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:46,120
Speaker 2: what are some of the forces that bind it all together,

97
00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:48,760
Speaker 2: that flow through us and make it all make sense.

98
00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:52,400
Speaker 3: And is it even possible to explain all of that craziness,

99
00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:55,120
Speaker 3: all the amazing things we experience in the universe, from

100
00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:58,440
Speaker 3: leaves swirling in the fall to black holes collapsing in

101
00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:01,680
Speaker 3: terms of tiny particles. It really possible to break it

102
00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:04,159
Speaker 3: all down and say it's just a bunch of electrons

103
00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:05,880
Speaker 3: passing particles back and forth.

104
00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:08,640
Speaker 2: I feel like you're minimizing electrons. You said only a

105
00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:11,960
Speaker 2: bunch of electrons. But electrons are pretty pretty special, aren't they.

106
00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:14,640
Speaker 2: Each one is a tiny snowflake in the universe.

107
00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:17,760
Speaker 3: They're all actually identical right in a way snowflakes aren't

108
00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,240
Speaker 3: even But I think the job of particle physics is

109
00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:24,039
Speaker 3: literally to minimize the universe, to say everything that's big

110
00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:26,479
Speaker 3: can be explained in terms of everything that's small.

111
00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:28,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess that's a job of physics to break

112
00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:31,640
Speaker 2: things down. And I guess throughout the history of humans

113
00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:34,200
Speaker 2: and signs. That's what you have been doing right, first

114
00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:37,480
Speaker 2: breaking things down into types of elements, and then atoms

115
00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:38,919
Speaker 2: and then atomic particles.

116
00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:42,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, we hope that breaking things down will give us explanations,

117
00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:45,039
Speaker 3: will reveal the true nature of the universe, and that

118
00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:47,799
Speaker 3: we could go the opposite direction also from the little

119
00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:50,400
Speaker 3: bits tooing and frowing, that we can weave those little

120
00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:53,080
Speaker 3: bits back together. All their tuing and frowing can be

121
00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:56,080
Speaker 3: sewn together to explain everything that happens, the way like

122
00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:59,159
Speaker 3: water droplets eventually could explain a hurricane, and the way

123
00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:02,640
Speaker 3: quantum particles somehow make up your classical body. We hope

124
00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:05,560
Speaker 3: that by drilling down we can expose the most fundamental

125
00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:07,599
Speaker 3: layer of the universe and then build back up to

126
00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:08,560
Speaker 3: explain everything.

127
00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:10,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so, little by little, scientists have come up

128
00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:12,920
Speaker 2: with a picture of the universe that can be broken

129
00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:16,760
Speaker 2: down into subatomic particles called electrons and quarks and also

130
00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:19,839
Speaker 2: force particles. So the question is does it all make sense?

131
00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:20,839
Speaker 2: Does it all stick?

132
00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:23,640
Speaker 3: We have a mathematical description of how this all works

133
00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:26,800
Speaker 3: which is incredibly precise. We can predict the outcomes of

134
00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:30,160
Speaker 3: experiments to ten or fifteen decimal places and mostly get

135
00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:32,840
Speaker 3: it right, But is it possible to get an intuitive

136
00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:36,200
Speaker 3: understanding to tell ourselves, like a little story about what's

137
00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:39,120
Speaker 3: happening down there in the quantum realm in a way

138
00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:42,080
Speaker 3: that gives us some insights, some understanding. Is it really

139
00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:45,160
Speaker 3: true that particles are zipping around tossing force particles back

140
00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:47,359
Speaker 3: and forth together or is something deeper happening?

141
00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:49,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we're here to force out the truth. So

142
00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:56,680
Speaker 2: today on the podcast, we'll be asking the question how

143
00:06:56,720 --> 00:07:01,839
Speaker 2: do particles carry force? Generic force, not the force? Right?

144
00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:05,479
Speaker 3: This is science Force, not science fiction force or magical force.

145
00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:07,480
Speaker 2: Who Science Force? I want to be part of that team.

146
00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:10,360
Speaker 2: Do you wear uniforms? Do you have like a secret base?

147
00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:13,120
Speaker 3: Absolutely, they're snappier than the Space Force.

148
00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:15,960
Speaker 2: Also, yeah, well I'll join either one, to be honest,

149
00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:19,040
Speaker 2: anything that has a base and involves space or science

150
00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:20,840
Speaker 2: and laser guns.

151
00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:22,840
Speaker 3: I mean, I think we settle this already. The Science

152
00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:24,440
Speaker 3: Force is going to elect you to be part of

153
00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:26,680
Speaker 3: the Space Force and send you up to meet the aliens.

154
00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:28,880
Speaker 2: Wait, wait, when do we settle this? I didn't sign

155
00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:30,320
Speaker 2: any any agreements here.

156
00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:32,240
Speaker 3: Oh sorry, we had a meeting of the Science Force.

157
00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:33,200
Speaker 3: I guess you weren't there.

158
00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:35,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I guess it depends on how much you're

159
00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:37,440
Speaker 2: paying me. How much are you paying me to do this? Daniel?

160
00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:39,960
Speaker 2: And or am I surviving relatives?

161
00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:42,240
Speaker 3: Yeah? You get paid on your return? Is that all right?

162
00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:44,640
Speaker 2: What do you mean? I pay or I get paid?

163
00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:46,120
Speaker 3: You get paid if you survive?

164
00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:49,360
Speaker 2: That sounds like a terrible deal. Do you get paid

165
00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:52,440
Speaker 2: only if you discover something in physics, Daniel? Or do

166
00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:53,440
Speaker 2: you get paid either way?

167
00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:55,840
Speaker 3: I'm getting paid and I ain't never discovered anything?

168
00:07:57,080 --> 00:08:00,840
Speaker 2: Then the aswards, Yes, so far, so far right, there's

169
00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:02,560
Speaker 2: always an optimism.

170
00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:04,239
Speaker 3: That's right, dating over yet, that's right.

171
00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:07,680
Speaker 2: Your career over yet? But maybe have a podcast long

172
00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:10,800
Speaker 2: enough and who knows what you'll say, day tuned folks.

173
00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:13,840
Speaker 2: But anyways, it's an interesting question because we tend to

174
00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:16,320
Speaker 2: think of matter and the things around us is being

175
00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:18,240
Speaker 2: made out of particles. That kind of makes sense. But

176
00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:21,200
Speaker 2: the idea that maybe the forces between those particles, the

177
00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:23,520
Speaker 2: things that make you stand here on Earth, or that

178
00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:26,640
Speaker 2: makes all your atoms stick together or your hair stent

179
00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:30,120
Speaker 2: up when they're there's static electricity, those things could be

180
00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:33,680
Speaker 2: due to particles also is kind of confusing, right, It.

181
00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:36,080
Speaker 3: Is confusing, and yet it's something you hear a lot

182
00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:38,920
Speaker 3: in popular science without a sort of deeper explanation for

183
00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:41,880
Speaker 3: what the limits are of that description. You know, everything

184
00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:43,959
Speaker 3: in the end is an analogy, and those analogies always

185
00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:46,080
Speaker 3: break down at some point, So which parts of that

186
00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:48,439
Speaker 3: story are true and which parts of that story are

187
00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:49,240
Speaker 3: just a cartoon?

188
00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:51,640
Speaker 2: That's right. You don't want to force a force analogy.

189
00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:54,319
Speaker 2: That's too deep, All right? Well, as usual, we were

190
00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:56,480
Speaker 2: wondering how many people out there I thought about the

191
00:08:56,520 --> 00:08:59,679
Speaker 2: idea of particles caring force and how they might do that.

192
00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:03,640
Speaker 3: Thanks to everybody who volunteers for this audience participation segment

193
00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:06,760
Speaker 3: of the podcast. We'd love if you participated. Since you

194
00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:09,040
Speaker 3: are part of the audience, don't be shy. Write to

195
00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:11,920
Speaker 3: me two questions at Danielanjorge dot com and in the

196
00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:14,240
Speaker 3: future you'll hear your voice on the podcast.

197
00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:16,640
Speaker 2: So think about for a second, how do you think

198
00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:19,600
Speaker 2: particles carry forth? Here's what p plad to say.

199
00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:23,200
Speaker 7: I think technically they carry force by exchanging particles. I

200
00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:26,280
Speaker 7: know all the matter particles are called fermions, and they

201
00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:30,880
Speaker 7: exchange force by passing around their boson counterparts. For example,

202
00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:33,920
Speaker 7: the strong force I think passes around gluons and so

203
00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:36,840
Speaker 7: the mental model that I have is fermians passing their

204
00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:39,720
Speaker 7: bosons around, sort of like playing catch. But I'm sure

205
00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:42,280
Speaker 7: that's not even close to an accurate representation. But it's

206
00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:43,240
Speaker 7: kind of what I've.

207
00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:45,920
Speaker 2: Thought of boson's carry force, because there's a way paint

208
00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:53,120
Speaker 2: QUI fermions, just in the way light light stings up.

209
00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:58,640
Speaker 8: I think particles carry forces by interacting with fields, or

210
00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:01,920
Speaker 8: they might also carry for by being like a part

211
00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:04,800
Speaker 8: of them, like shaking in that dimension.

212
00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:05,320
Speaker 3: Sort of.

213
00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:09,000
Speaker 9: Particles carry force in their pockets, and when they want

214
00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:11,520
Speaker 9: to transmit a force, they reach into their pocket and

215
00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:13,880
Speaker 9: they pull out a boson and they lob it at

216
00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:15,680
Speaker 9: another particle to push it out of the way.

217
00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:20,360
Speaker 6: I assume particles carry force through velocity, mass, and spin,

218
00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:25,040
Speaker 6: and they transfer force as they translate one of those

219
00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:27,839
Speaker 6: upon interaction with something else.

220
00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:31,199
Speaker 9: I thought that the forces were transmitted when the force

221
00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:34,440
Speaker 9: particles were transferred from one particle to another. But having

222
00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:37,800
Speaker 9: just listened to your podcast on energy, I imagine the

223
00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:41,000
Speaker 9: answer is probably just momentum.

224
00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:42,800
Speaker 2: All right, A lot of pretty science the answers. Are

225
00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:45,160
Speaker 2: you also recruiting them for the science force? Is there

226
00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:46,800
Speaker 2: a pledge to be in the science force.

227
00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:49,040
Speaker 3: Did you like the answer where they're pulling bosons out

228
00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:49,640
Speaker 3: of their pockets?

229
00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:50,720
Speaker 1: Yeah?

230
00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:52,559
Speaker 2: What's it required? What kind of gadgets do you get?

231
00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:55,760
Speaker 3: You get a pocket full of bosons and you set free,

232
00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:57,960
Speaker 3: go go forth in science.

233
00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:01,640
Speaker 2: Nice. Nice, that sounds like it's pocket full of bosons.

234
00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:04,480
Speaker 2: But anyways, interesting answers from our listeners here. None of

235
00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:09,559
Speaker 2: them mentioned yoga, doing yoga or Medei Chlorians disappointed. Yeah,

236
00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:13,040
Speaker 2: step it up, listeners. We have some interesting answers having

237
00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:16,760
Speaker 2: to do with velocity and mass and colored matter and

238
00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:19,240
Speaker 2: maybe extra dimensions. So I'll have to explore here. So

239
00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:22,000
Speaker 2: let's break it down, Daniel, what is the technical definition

240
00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:23,960
Speaker 2: of a force? Let's start with that.

241
00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:26,439
Speaker 3: So all of these explanations in the end are trying

242
00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:29,920
Speaker 3: to describe things we have experience with. That's what physics does, right,

243
00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:32,240
Speaker 3: give labels to things and then try to explain them.

244
00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:35,440
Speaker 3: And so force is something we're familiar with, right, somebody

245
00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:38,160
Speaker 3: pushes you, or you press down the accelerator in your car.

246
00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:41,760
Speaker 3: These are things that involve forces. Mathematically, and in physics,

247
00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:44,679
Speaker 3: we think about a force as anything that changes the

248
00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:47,760
Speaker 3: momentum of an object. So ball flying through space at

249
00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:50,439
Speaker 3: the same velocity. There's no force on it. It just continues.

250
00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:52,920
Speaker 3: If you want to change its velocity, its direction, or

251
00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:55,560
Speaker 3: its overall momentum in any way, you have to apply

252
00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:56,280
Speaker 3: a force.

253
00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:56,920
Speaker 6: Right.

254
00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:00,280
Speaker 2: It also goes back to basically F equals ma a right, like,

255
00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:02,439
Speaker 2: if you have a mass, something with mass and it's

256
00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:05,600
Speaker 2: changing its velocity, then there must be a force involved.

257
00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:07,120
Speaker 2: And that's kind of maybe what you're saying is the

258
00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:07,760
Speaker 2: definition of it.

259
00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:10,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can actually even rewrite eth equals ma as

260
00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:13,800
Speaker 3: the change in momentum, and that really helps you understand

261
00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:17,280
Speaker 3: the connection between forces and momentum because remember that in

262
00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:20,200
Speaker 3: our universe, momentum is conserved, so if something has a

263
00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:22,600
Speaker 3: certain momentum, it's just going to keep that momentum unless

264
00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:25,440
Speaker 3: you add in momentum from somewhere else. That's what a

265
00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:28,000
Speaker 3: force is. You have a particle flying through space, you

266
00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:30,600
Speaker 3: want to change its direction, change its momentum, you have

267
00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:32,880
Speaker 3: to bring in some external momentum. You have to have

268
00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:35,000
Speaker 3: another particle come by and give it a push or

269
00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:37,600
Speaker 3: a pull. That's what the force is. It's the change

270
00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:39,200
Speaker 3: of momentum of an object.

271
00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:42,559
Speaker 2: But the objects ever really change mass, and if they

272
00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:44,720
Speaker 2: never do, then what's the point of saying momentum, why

273
00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:45,800
Speaker 2: did you say ef equals?

274
00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:48,840
Speaker 3: When things are moving slowly, you can think of momentum

275
00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:51,600
Speaker 3: as just mass times velocity. But as things approach the

276
00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:54,280
Speaker 3: speed of light, when they get relativistic, there's another term

277
00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:57,840
Speaker 3: that creeps in there that changes the relationship between momentum

278
00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:00,880
Speaker 3: and velocity. They're no longer just linear. Whole episode on

279
00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:03,880
Speaker 3: the concept of like relativistic mass and whether that makes

280
00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:06,320
Speaker 3: any sense, And you remember, we decided that the real

281
00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:10,840
Speaker 3: concept is relativistic momentum. That momentum has a simple relationship

282
00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:13,480
Speaker 3: with velocity when you're moving slowly, but when you move fast,

283
00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:16,160
Speaker 3: it's much more complicated, And it's momentum that's really the

284
00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:19,679
Speaker 3: more fundamental concept. That's the thing that the universe cares about.

285
00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:22,640
Speaker 3: That's the thing the universe conserves. So it's really sort

286
00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:25,199
Speaker 3: of the more pure idea is momentum.

287
00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:27,760
Speaker 2: So when you say force is a change in momentum,

288
00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:31,439
Speaker 2: are you also talking about its relativistic momentum.

289
00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:31,720
Speaker 6: Yeah.

290
00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:34,920
Speaker 3: Absolutely, Relativistic momentum is the more general concept. You only

291
00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:36,760
Speaker 3: really need it near the speed of light. Mostly, you

292
00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:39,080
Speaker 3: can use the old classical momentum, which is just mass

293
00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:42,319
Speaker 3: times velocity and it gets things mostly right. But it

294
00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:45,640
Speaker 3: is the relativistic momentum that the universe conserves. And that's

295
00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:47,720
Speaker 3: one way we know that relativity is right, is that

296
00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:50,960
Speaker 3: it's this relativistic momentum that the universe keeps track of.

297
00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:53,800
Speaker 2: I see, right. So then to change your momentum, you

298
00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:56,559
Speaker 2: can increase it or decrease it. So forces can push

299
00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:57,319
Speaker 2: and pull.

300
00:13:57,240 --> 00:13:59,679
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, exactly. The intuitive description of a force is

301
00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:02,280
Speaker 3: a push pull. And what happens there is you're changing

302
00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:04,360
Speaker 3: your momentum. When you hit the brakes on your car,

303
00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:06,959
Speaker 3: you're changing your velocity. When you hit the accelerator, you're

304
00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:10,320
Speaker 3: changing your velocity. A change in your velocity is an acceleration,

305
00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:13,040
Speaker 3: it's a change in momentum, and there's always a force

306
00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:15,320
Speaker 3: involved there, Like the fastest way to slow down is

307
00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:17,480
Speaker 3: like hit a brick wall. There, the wall is applying

308
00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:21,400
Speaker 3: a force on you and your car, changing your momentum.

309
00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:23,680
Speaker 2: And it's kind of a weird feature of the universe

310
00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:26,160
Speaker 2: that it has this conservation of momentum, right, or that

311
00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:27,800
Speaker 2: you need a force to change you momentum. It could

312
00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:29,600
Speaker 2: have been that the universe was different, right, It could

313
00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:32,760
Speaker 2: have been that the universe maybe preferred mass time's acceleration

314
00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:35,880
Speaker 2: to be conserved, right, Maybe.

315
00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:37,760
Speaker 3: Yes, and no, it's not true that we have no

316
00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:41,440
Speaker 3: idea why the universe conserves momentum. It comes from a

317
00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:44,720
Speaker 3: deeper symmetry. We know because of Nuther's law, which tells

318
00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:47,240
Speaker 3: us that every time the universe can serves something, it's

319
00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:49,840
Speaker 3: because of a symmetry of the universe. In this case,

320
00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:52,880
Speaker 3: the symmetry of the universe is a symmetry of space itself.

321
00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:55,320
Speaker 3: The laws of physics are the same at every point

322
00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:58,640
Speaker 3: in space that momentum is conserved. That step there seems

323
00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:00,520
Speaker 3: like a big leap, but that's exactly the leap from

324
00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:03,200
Speaker 3: Nuther's law. I mean Nuther, this mathematician from about one

325
00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:06,000
Speaker 3: hundred years ago, made this deep realization that there's a

326
00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:09,760
Speaker 3: connection between symmetry and conservation laws. So this law conservation

327
00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:13,239
Speaker 3: momentum comes from the fact that space is the same everywhere.

328
00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:15,000
Speaker 3: And so you're right, it doesn't have to be true

329
00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:17,280
Speaker 3: that space is the same everywhere in our universe. It

330
00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:20,320
Speaker 3: seems to be, and that's why we have conservation and momentum.

331
00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:22,640
Speaker 3: But there could be other universes where the laws of

332
00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:25,760
Speaker 3: physics change as you move through space, and their momentum

333
00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:26,800
Speaker 3: would not be conserved.

334
00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:29,640
Speaker 2: I feel like you just spend a minute agreeing with me. Awesome,

335
00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:34,240
Speaker 2: can we agree? Well, this is the universe we live in,

336
00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:37,560
Speaker 2: and it seems to conserve momentum. And there's several ways

337
00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:40,200
Speaker 2: that you can do that, right, Several forces that will

338
00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:43,720
Speaker 2: allow you to change particle's momentum, maybe depending on what

339
00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:46,040
Speaker 2: kind of particle it is and what its properties are.

340
00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:48,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so we can take the same concept of

341
00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:51,080
Speaker 3: a force that applies to your car and applied also

342
00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:53,560
Speaker 3: to particles. Particles have momentum, and if you want to

343
00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:55,600
Speaker 3: change your momentum, you have to apply a force. And

344
00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:58,080
Speaker 3: you're right, there's several ways to do that. We've observed

345
00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:00,480
Speaker 3: several ways, and again this is just a script. We've

346
00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:03,760
Speaker 3: noticed several things happen to particles, and we've categorized them

347
00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:05,680
Speaker 3: as much as we can. We've tried to like weave

348
00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:08,760
Speaker 3: them together into one concept, but haven't totally succeeded. We

349
00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:11,960
Speaker 3: call these things the fundamental forces. So there's like electricity

350
00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:15,760
Speaker 3: and magnetism. Charged particles will push or pull on each other.

351
00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:19,800
Speaker 3: That's definitely a force. Electrons will change each other's momentum.

352
00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:23,239
Speaker 3: They'll change their direction entirely. Right, that's a change in momentum.

353
00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:25,920
Speaker 3: Even if your velocity is the same but your direction

354
00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:29,120
Speaker 3: is different, it's still a change in momentum.

355
00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:28,600
Speaker 8: Mm.

356
00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:31,640
Speaker 2: So that's maybe the most familiar force to people like

357
00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:35,000
Speaker 2: your magnetism. That's basically what keeps our atoms together, right,

358
00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:38,360
Speaker 2: and our molecules stuck together with the different atoms in it.

359
00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:38,560
Speaker 6: Right.

360
00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:40,880
Speaker 2: Without the electromagnetic force, it would be a big deal.

361
00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:44,080
Speaker 2: We would all fall apart, exactly. We all need electromagnetism.

362
00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:46,760
Speaker 2: So you truly acknowledge the electromagnetic force in like every

363
00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:49,120
Speaker 2: book or paper you write, because you totally rely on it.

364
00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:52,520
Speaker 2: That's right, every acceptance speech you give, every thank you

365
00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:54,000
Speaker 2: card you write.

366
00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:55,880
Speaker 3: There you go, Yeah, you sent a holiday card to

367
00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:57,280
Speaker 3: the electromagnetic force this year.

368
00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:01,000
Speaker 2: Now put it on holidays, and thanks again to the

369
00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:02,040
Speaker 2: electromagnetic force.

370
00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:04,359
Speaker 3: Thanks for all the photons. But it's not the only

371
00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:07,480
Speaker 3: force that's out there. There's another force called the weak force,

372
00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:10,880
Speaker 3: which US physicists actually have managed to stitch together into

373
00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:14,240
Speaker 3: one force we call the electro week. But traditionally people

374
00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:17,200
Speaker 3: talk about the weak force as responsible for like radioactive

375
00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:20,840
Speaker 3: decay and interactions of neutrinos and stuff like that. So

376
00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:22,200
Speaker 3: it's sort of a Shyer force.

377
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:25,280
Speaker 2: What does it mean that it's related to radioactive decay?

378
00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:28,960
Speaker 2: Like when something decays radioactively, the weak force is there

379
00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:31,439
Speaker 2: to split things apart or to hold things together? What

380
00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:32,120
Speaker 2: is it doing there?

381
00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:34,800
Speaker 3: Lots of radioactive decay can be explained by one kind

382
00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:37,720
Speaker 3: of quark changing into another kind of quark, and it

383
00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:40,160
Speaker 3: does so using the weak force. So the weak force

384
00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:42,440
Speaker 3: can change, for example, like an upcork into a down

385
00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:44,840
Speaker 3: quirk if you emit a w boson, and the w

386
00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,400
Speaker 3: boson is intimately connected to the weak force, as we'll

387
00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:50,240
Speaker 3: talk about more later. Without the weak force, that can't happen.

388
00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:51,800
Speaker 3: And so that's what we mean when we say the

389
00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:55,199
Speaker 3: weak force is responsible for radioactive decay. It like opens

390
00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:56,480
Speaker 3: up a channel for this to happen.

391
00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:58,280
Speaker 2: But is it pushing or pulling on anything?

392
00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:01,720
Speaker 3: That's a tricky question. Can push and it can pull?

393
00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:04,600
Speaker 3: The whole podcast episode inspired by a question from an

394
00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:07,800
Speaker 3: organic chemistry professor. But whether the weak force can push

395
00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:10,160
Speaker 3: and can pull the answer is that it can do both,

396
00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:12,680
Speaker 3: but it's more complicated than the electromagnetic force.

397
00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:15,200
Speaker 2: Well ll right, what are some of the other forces

398
00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:15,760
Speaker 2: in nature.

399
00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:18,040
Speaker 3: So the last thing that's really a force is the

400
00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:20,159
Speaker 3: strong force. This is the thing that quarks feel, but

401
00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:23,000
Speaker 3: like electrons don't. Two electrons can pass near each other

402
00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:24,639
Speaker 3: and not push or pull on each other with the

403
00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:28,480
Speaker 3: strong force. But quarks or gluons, these things do feel

404
00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:31,280
Speaker 3: the strong force. They have another kind of charge, the

405
00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:34,040
Speaker 3: way an electron has an electric charge, which allows it

406
00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:37,960
Speaker 3: to feel electric fields and electromagnetic force, but neutrinos don't.

407
00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:41,639
Speaker 3: Quarks and gluons have a color charge. A strong force

408
00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:44,399
Speaker 3: charge lets them interact using the strong force in a

409
00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:47,600
Speaker 3: way that electrons just don't. And so that's the last force.

410
00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:49,840
Speaker 3: And this is the one that holds quarks together into

411
00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:53,200
Speaker 3: protons and neutrons, and the residual little forces bind those

412
00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:56,359
Speaker 3: protons and neutrons together into nuclei. So we also rely

413
00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:58,679
Speaker 3: on the strong force to build our world.

414
00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:01,919
Speaker 2: They're all pretty necessary, it seems.

415
00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:04,280
Speaker 3: They all have their role to play exactly the top

416
00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:05,800
Speaker 3: billing to the extras in the back.

417
00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:08,280
Speaker 2: What about gravity? Is in gravity also a force.

418
00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:10,240
Speaker 3: So we sometimes think of gravity as a force, and

419
00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:13,240
Speaker 3: we talk about the force of gravity, and Newton describes

420
00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:15,800
Speaker 3: his force law or gravity. But now we know that

421
00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:18,160
Speaker 3: gravity isn't actually a force. Things move in a way

422
00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:20,240
Speaker 3: that makes it look like there's a force there, but

423
00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:23,760
Speaker 3: that's actually just because they are free falling in curved space.

424
00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:26,879
Speaker 3: There's no actual change in momentum there. And you can

425
00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:29,680
Speaker 3: tell the difference between gravity and these other forces. Because

426
00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:33,399
Speaker 3: gravity doesn't cause a change in momentum. You can't measure

427
00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:35,120
Speaker 3: acceleration due to gravity.

428
00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:37,040
Speaker 2: Wait, what do you mean If I hold a bowling

429
00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:39,399
Speaker 2: ball above you and I let it go, isn't it

430
00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:41,400
Speaker 2: going to gain some dangerous momentum for you there?

431
00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:43,560
Speaker 3: So if you're falling with the bowling ball and you

432
00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:46,359
Speaker 3: have like an accelerometer, you're not going to measure any

433
00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:49,520
Speaker 3: acceleration there. The bowling ball is in freefall, there are

434
00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:50,440
Speaker 3: no forces.

435
00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:52,240
Speaker 2: On it, right, But Pier, it's going to measure a

436
00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:53,879
Speaker 2: pretty big acceleration, isn't it.

437
00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:56,959
Speaker 3: Yeah, Because in that scenario, I'm actually doing the accelerating.

438
00:19:57,040 --> 00:19:59,919
Speaker 3: I'm accelerating towards the bowling ball. The bowling ball is

439
00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:02,160
Speaker 3: free fall. The surface of the Earth or my chair

440
00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:05,919
Speaker 3: or whatever is accelerating me against the natural curvature of

441
00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:08,879
Speaker 3: space time towards the bowling ball. So that's actually my

442
00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:11,560
Speaker 3: acceleration due to the structure of the Earth or my

443
00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:14,560
Speaker 3: rocket ship or whatever that I'm measuring. There's no acceleration

444
00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:15,600
Speaker 3: there due to gravity.

445
00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:17,399
Speaker 2: Wait, so if I drop a bowling ball on you,

446
00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:20,200
Speaker 2: it's not my fault. You're saying it's your fault.

447
00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:22,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, I basically rear ended you.

448
00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:27,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. Basically would that work in a court of law? Daniel,

449
00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:29,280
Speaker 2: can I bring you in as an expert physicist?

450
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:32,040
Speaker 3: I definitely recommend you hire a particle physicists instead of

451
00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:34,399
Speaker 3: a lawyer next time you're in court. See how that

452
00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:38,359
Speaker 3: works out. Well, your honor, I want to upend thousands

453
00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:39,960
Speaker 3: of years of legal tradition.

454
00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:42,520
Speaker 2: That's right. Let me bring out some charts here.

455
00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:44,600
Speaker 3: And the truth is that Einstein did say something really

456
00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:47,080
Speaker 3: interesting about this. The equivalence principle that a lot of

457
00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:49,240
Speaker 3: people have heard about says that any experiment you do

458
00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:52,000
Speaker 3: is the same whether or not you're in curved space,

459
00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:55,920
Speaker 3: that you basically can't ever measure locally the curvature of space.

460
00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:58,679
Speaker 2: Wait, so, I feel like I'm a little bit confused.

461
00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:01,480
Speaker 2: So if I drop a bowling ball on you, and

462
00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:04,520
Speaker 2: you're saying the bowling bob doesn't accelerate due to gravity.

463
00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:08,399
Speaker 2: You're saying you're accelerating. Your head is accelerating due to

464
00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:10,800
Speaker 2: the you know, the forces that the ground is pushing

465
00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:12,440
Speaker 2: up on you with exactly.

466
00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:14,280
Speaker 3: So it looks to me like the bowling ball is

467
00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:17,480
Speaker 3: accelerating towards me, But I'm actually accelerating towards it, I see.

468
00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:20,480
Speaker 3: And acceleration is not just relative, right, unlike velocity, And

469
00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:23,159
Speaker 3: velocity's equivalent to say, I'm moving in this speed relative

470
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:25,000
Speaker 3: to you, and you're moving in this speed relative to me,

471
00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:28,400
Speaker 3: But acceleration is not relative. We can both hold accelerometers

472
00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:30,400
Speaker 3: and we can tell who's being accelerated.

473
00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:33,240
Speaker 2: Right. Does that mean that if I'm just sitting here

474
00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:35,399
Speaker 2: doing nothing, my momentum is changing.

475
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:35,760
Speaker 6: Yeah?

476
00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:38,199
Speaker 3: Absolutely, Right now you are being accelerated.

477
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:40,280
Speaker 2: So you're saying my momentum is changing. Yeah, absolutely, even

478
00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:41,240
Speaker 2: though I'm just sitting here.

479
00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:43,760
Speaker 3: Momentum is defined relative to your axis. So you can

480
00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:46,000
Speaker 3: always define an access in which you're at rest and

481
00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:48,359
Speaker 3: that doesn't change, and so your momentum is not changing,

482
00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:51,399
Speaker 3: but that frame of reference is accelerating. So from an

483
00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:54,440
Speaker 3: inertial reference frame, you are definitely accelerating, but you are

484
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:57,679
Speaker 3: not in an inertial reference frame. You're an accelerating reference

485
00:21:57,720 --> 00:21:59,200
Speaker 3: frame on the surface of the Earth.

486
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:02,440
Speaker 2: So reference frame is like off into space or what.

487
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,239
Speaker 3: If you define your reference frame to be you, then

488
00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:07,360
Speaker 3: you have no momentum and you never will right by

489
00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:10,119
Speaker 3: definition MM, if you pick some reference frame of a

490
00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:12,800
Speaker 3: distant observer looking at the Earth, then yes, you are

491
00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:16,440
Speaker 3: definitely accelerating. You're accelerating against the curvature of space time

492
00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:18,960
Speaker 3: from the Earth, and you're accelerating against the curvature of

493
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:20,040
Speaker 3: space time from the Sun.

494
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:23,000
Speaker 2: I see this requires us to kind of think in

495
00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:24,479
Speaker 2: space time, not just space.

496
00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:26,520
Speaker 3: I don't know that you need space time, but you

497
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:29,000
Speaker 3: do have to think about inertial reference frames, ones that

498
00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:31,720
Speaker 3: are not accelerating and accelerating reference frames.

499
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:33,560
Speaker 2: So then how do you explain the fact that I

500
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:34,560
Speaker 2: don't feel like I'm moving?

501
00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:36,440
Speaker 3: Why don't you feel like you're moving? If you stand

502
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:38,720
Speaker 3: on a scale, you measure something that tells you that

503
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:40,879
Speaker 3: there's a force being applied, you're just used to it.

504
00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:42,000
Speaker 2: I don't feel like I'm moving.

505
00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:44,679
Speaker 3: Motion is relative, right, You can just define a reference

506
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:47,320
Speaker 3: frame at yourself and then you're not moving, But acceleration

507
00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:49,000
Speaker 3: is not. And that's why you can measure it.

508
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:52,280
Speaker 2: I think maybe what you say is you said relativity

509
00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:54,919
Speaker 2: is complex, and if you sort of think about the

510
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:59,040
Speaker 2: curvature space or of space time, then technically even if

511
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:01,159
Speaker 2: you're just sitting there changing momentum, if.

512
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,240
Speaker 3: You want to dig deep into these questions of general relativity,

513
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:06,439
Speaker 3: we had an episode recently about inertial versus gravitational mass

514
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:08,520
Speaker 3: that laid it all out in detail. I think the

515
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:10,879
Speaker 3: big picture here is that gravity is not a force.

516
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:13,640
Speaker 3: It doesn't apply in acceleration the way the other fundamental

517
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:18,000
Speaker 3: forces do, at least not in our current understanding of gravity, right.

518
00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:20,600
Speaker 2: Right, because some people think maybe gravity is a force,

519
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:22,640
Speaker 2: right and there might be gravit conds.

520
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,560
Speaker 3: Perhaps there might be in future theories of quantum gravity

521
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:27,960
Speaker 3: might change our entire picture of how gravity works.

522
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,000
Speaker 2: All right, Well, let's dig into the larger question we're

523
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:33,840
Speaker 2: trying to answer here, which is how particles can carry

524
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:37,280
Speaker 2: forces for the things that we do call forces for now,

525
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:39,800
Speaker 2: I guess, And so let's dig into that how to

526
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,679
Speaker 2: force particles work? And is that really the picture of

527
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:45,679
Speaker 2: how the universe actually is? So let's dig into that.

528
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:47,800
Speaker 2: But first, let's take a quick break.

529
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:54,360
Speaker 3: With big wireless providers what you see is never what

530
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:57,120
Speaker 3: you get. Somewhere between the store and your first month's bill,

531
00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:00,199
Speaker 3: the price you thoughts you were paying magically skyrockets. With

532
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:03,720
Speaker 3: mint Mobile, You'll never have to worry about gotcha's ever again.

533
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:06,040
Speaker 3: When Mint Mobile says fifteen dollars a month for a

534
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:08,920
Speaker 3: three month plan, they really mean it. I've used mint

535
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:11,400
Speaker 3: Mobile and the call quality is always so crisp and

536
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:13,880
Speaker 3: so clear. I can recommend it to you. So say

537
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:17,159
Speaker 3: bye bye to your overpriced wireless plans, jaw dropping monthly

538
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 3: bills and unexpected overages. You can use your own phone

539
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,879
Speaker 3: with any Mint Mobile plan and bring your phone number

540
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 3: along with your existing contacts. So dit your overpriced wireless

541
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 3: with mint Mobiles deal and get three months a premium

542
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,159
Speaker 3: wireless service for fifteen bucks a month. To get this

543
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:33,640
Speaker 3: new customer offer and your new three month premium wireless

544
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:35,640
Speaker 3: plan for just fifteen bucks a month, go to mintmobile

545
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:39,159
Speaker 3: dot com slash universe. That's mintmobile dot com slash universe.

546
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,159
Speaker 3: Cut your wireless bill to fifteen bucks a month At

547
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 3: mintmobile dot com slash universe. Forty five dollars upfront payment

548
00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 3: required equivalent to fifteen dollars per month. New customers on

549
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 3: first three month plan only speeds slower about forty gigabytes

550
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,720
Speaker 3: on unlimited plan. Additional taxi spees and restrictions apply. See

551
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:53,920
Speaker 3: mint Mobile for details.

552
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:57,120
Speaker 10: AI might be the most important new computer technology ever.

553
00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:01,360
Speaker 10: It's storming every industry and literally billions dollars are being invested,

554
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:05,359
Speaker 10: so buckle up. The problem is that AI needs a

555
00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:08,040
Speaker 10: lot of speed and processing power, So how do you

556
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,320
Speaker 10: compete without cost spiraling out of control. It's time to

557
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,399
Speaker 10: upgrade to the next generation of the cloud. Oracle Cloud

558
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 10: Infrastructure or OCI. OCI is a single platform for your infrastructure, database,

559
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:24,680
Speaker 10: application development, and AI needs. OCI has four to eight

560
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:28,119
Speaker 10: times the bandwidth of other clouds, offers one consistent price

561
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:31,359
Speaker 10: instead of variable regional pricing, and of course nobody does

562
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 10: data better than Oracle. So now you can train your

563
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 10: AI models at twice the speed and less than half

564
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:38,679
Speaker 10: the cost of other clouds. If you want to do

565
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 10: more and spend less, like Uber eight by eight and

566
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:44,439
Speaker 10: Data Bricks Mosaic, take a free test drive of OCI

567
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 10: at Oracle dot com slash strategic. That's Oracle dot com

568
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 10: slash Strategic Oracle dot com slash strategic.

569
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:55,879
Speaker 3: If you love iPhone, you'll love Apple Card. It's the

570
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 3: credit card designed for iPhone. It gives you unlimited daily

571
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,920
Speaker 3: care back that can earn four point four zero percent

572
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,879
Speaker 3: annual percentage yield. When you open a high yield savings

573
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,720
Speaker 3: account through Apple Card, apply for Apple Card in the

574
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 3: wallet app subject to credit approval. Savings is available to

575
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 3: Apple Card owners subject to eligibility. Apple Card and Savings

576
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,440
Speaker 3: by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch Member

577
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 3: FDIC terms and more at applecard dot com.

578
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,520
Speaker 4: When it comes to travel bags and backpacks, colorful and

579
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:27,359
Speaker 4: unique options are hard to come by. Luckily, Baboon to

580
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:29,920
Speaker 4: the Moon has you covered. Babboon to the Moon's bags

581
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,119
Speaker 4: are made for going places near and far, and for

582
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:34,679
Speaker 4: making you the brightest star at Baggage Claim. Made with

583
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 4: super durable materials in a limited lifetime warranty. Your Babboon

584
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:41,280
Speaker 4: to the moonbag will join you for all of life's mistrains,

585
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:45,440
Speaker 4: unexpected rain showers, love of first sights, and compliments. Check

586
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 4: them out at Babboon to themoon dot com. Now get

587
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 4: lost and make the world more colorful.

588
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:58,119
Speaker 2: All right, we're talking about Yoda doing yoga. Now do

589
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:01,360
Speaker 2: you think Yoda does hot yoga? Or some other kind

590
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 2: of yoga.

591
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:04,199
Speaker 3: I think Yoda's pretty hot already. I don't think he

592
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 3: has to do any yoga.

593
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, you're you're into the ears and the wrinkles.

594
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 3: Well, you know there's also baby Yoda, right for those

595
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:13,720
Speaker 3: of you who are interested in the smoother skin. Oh yeah, yeah, he.

596
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 2: Says, like cute yoga, adorable, adorbs yoga. Well, it's hard

597
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:21,120
Speaker 2: to keep track of yoga and yoga at the same time. Now,

598
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:23,399
Speaker 2: can Yoda drink yogurt doing yoga?

599
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 3: You got me?

600
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:28,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, yo got me? All right. Well, we're talking about

601
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 2: how particles can carry force. Do they carry force? What

602
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:32,920
Speaker 2: does it mean for a particle to carry force? Because

603
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:35,440
Speaker 2: I feel like we're used to forces being just some

604
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:37,679
Speaker 2: sort of invisible thing in the universe. It makes us

605
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 2: want to go towards something, we're away from something. But

606
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 2: I feel like you're saying, physicists have this view where

607
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 2: a force, when something's pulling or pushing you, is actually

608
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 2: some sort of exchange of particles.

609
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, this microscopic picture is compelling because it helps connect

610
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:54,399
Speaker 3: with our macroscopic understanding, our like intuitive experience of what

611
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:57,440
Speaker 3: a force is. And that's basically touching you know, when

612
00:27:57,480 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 3: the brick wall slows your car down, it does so

613
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:02,199
Speaker 3: because you hit the brick wall. Or when you slap

614
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,400
Speaker 3: that baseball into a home run, you do so because

615
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 3: the baseball hit the bat, right, And we have this

616
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:09,400
Speaker 3: sense that in order to change something's momentum you got

617
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 3: to touch it, that it comes from contact, from like

618
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 3: literally pushing on something or pulling on something to apply

619
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:15,639
Speaker 3: that force.

620
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 2: Well, not necessarily like a magnet, like I think people

621
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,200
Speaker 2: are familiar with a magnet kind of pushing pulling things

622
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:22,399
Speaker 2: without actually touching it.

623
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great example. I think that's probably why

624
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 3: magnets feel so spooky and weird to a lot of people,

625
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 3: because it is action at a distance. Right, it's things

626
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 3: pushing and pulling at each other without touching or.

627
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 2: Well, I don't want to get into this again, but

628
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 2: you know, reused to gravity making things move towards each

629
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 2: other without any kind of contact.

630
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 3: Also, yeah, they're what's happening is you're interacting with curved space.

631
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 2: All right, So then what do you mean by this

632
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 2: microscopic view?

633
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 3: Just basically that things feel like they're local. You know,

634
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 3: if you want to push on something, you got to

635
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 3: touch it, and often when we're telling stories about what's

636
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 3: happening in the microscopic scale, when we're trying to tell

637
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 3: ourselves a story about the particles rely on our intuition

638
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 3: from the macroscopic, from like the big scale stuff. So

639
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 3: then the question is, when particles are pushing on each other,

640
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 3: are they coming into contact in some way? Is this

641
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 3: interaction like a local thing? And that's where the story

642
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 3: of two particles exchanging some particle helps us sort of

643
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 3: fill in that gap that tells us a local story.

644
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 3: Like one particle is flying along and it throws a particle,

645
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:24,479
Speaker 3: pulling it out of its boson pocket at another particle

646
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 3: which catches it. In that story, everything is always local.

647
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 2: Mm. Yeah, I'm all about eating local and theorizing locally.

648
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 2: But maybe let's paint a picture, more concrete picture for folks.

649
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 2: Let's say you have two electrons a meter part and

650
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 2: according to what we know, they feel that electromagnetic force

651
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 2: and they have the same charge, So they're repelling each other,

652
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 2: meaning if you just leave it for a while, they're

653
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 2: going to move away from each other. Yeap, Okay, So

654
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 2: then how is that force being transmitted if they're not

655
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 2: touching each other?

656
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 3: Yeah? So there's a lot of different ways to think

657
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 3: about it. One story, which I'm not a big fan of,

658
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 3: but is a sort of common story you hear, is

659
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 3: that they do it by exchanging a particle. That one

660
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 3: electron transmits momentum to the other electron basically by shooting

661
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 3: a photon at it. Because electrons can emit photons and

662
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 3: they can also absorb photons, it's like an interaction that's

663
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 3: allowed in the universe. So the story is like, electron

664
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 3: one shoots off a photon and in doing so, it

665
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 3: recoils against that photon right, maybe it was going straight,

666
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 3: now it's going left, shoots that photon off to the right.

667
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 3: The other electron, which was going straight, absorbs that photon

668
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 3: which was going right, and now it's going right. And

669
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 3: so it's sort of like two cars driving in parallel

670
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 3: and one of them throws a ball at the other

671
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:37,480
Speaker 3: one and some momentum gets carried along with that ball.

672
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 2: Or like if I toss a bowling ball at you,

673
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 2: you know, when I toss it at you, I'm going

674
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 2: to move back a little bit because it takes some

675
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 2: effort to toss it your way, and then when you

676
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 2: catch it, you're going to recoil back also a little bit,

677
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 2: because the ball had some sort of momentum to it

678
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 2: and it pushes you back.

679
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly the same way you feel a literal recoil

680
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 3: when you shoot a gun, and then the target also

681
00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 3: feels that momentum transfer. Absolutely.

682
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 2: I feel like this view is something that you would

683
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 2: get if you were already a little bit familiar with science,

684
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 2: right like, if you're take maybe a college little physics course.

685
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:09,719
Speaker 2: I don't know, maybe they teach it also in high school.

686
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 2: But maybe for the everyday person, this might be a

687
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 2: news story that they had never heard before, right Like,

688
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 2: maybe to then average person, they're just thinking, well, those

689
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 2: two electrons, one of them is exerting a force on

690
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 2: the others through the magic of magnetism.

691
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then the question is how do you actually

692
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 3: explain that? How do you come up with like a

693
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 3: coherent theory that says what's really happening? And one way

694
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 3: to do that is to say, oh, these forces are

695
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 3: actually being carried by particles, right, because particles are things

696
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 3: we know in the universe can carry momentum, and so

697
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:37,719
Speaker 3: if you want to push on something or pull on something,

698
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 3: you've got to use particles. To carry that momentum. So

699
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 3: this is just like a way to try to explain

700
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 3: these forces that we see. Maybe what's happening microscopically is

701
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 3: that particles are being exchanged. The same way you might

702
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 3: wonder like, well, what's everything made out of around me?

703
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 3: And you drill in on the tiny details and you discover, oh,

704
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 3: the surface of my table is not smooth. It's actually

705
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 3: a bunch of particles. I just don't see them because

706
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 3: they're so tiny. So maybe the forces between two magnets

707
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 3: and the forces between two electrically charged objects are actually

708
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 3: particles being transmitted between them. That's sort of how the

709
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 3: story goes.

710
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 2: Right, Like if people see me and you moving away

711
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 2: from each other, they might think, oh, there's some sort

712
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 2: of invisible magical force, but no, really, actually it's because

713
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 2: Orhead tossed the bowling ball to Daniel.

714
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 3: Yeah exactly do you have invisible bowling balls? By the way,

715
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 3: that sounds pretty cool.

716
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 2: Well, no, it doesn't have to be invisible. Could just

717
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 2: be a black bowling ball at night. But I think

718
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 2: what you're trying to get at is like this is

719
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 2: a view that's maybe popular out there if you consume

720
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 2: a lot of science and physics, but maybe this view

721
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 2: doesn't quite work. So does it work or not?

722
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 3: It definitely doesn't work for me, and I get the

723
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 3: sense that it doesn't work for a lot of people

724
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 3: out there because they get a lot of questions about it.

725
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 3: People absorb this idea and then they do what we're

726
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 3: always telling them to do on this podcast, which is well,

727
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 3: think about whether that makes sense. Does it explain other

728
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 3: things you see? Can you understand it in other circumstances,

729
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 3: does it click together with the other parts of your understanding.

730
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 3: And there's a bunch of pretty typical questions that this

731
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 3: picture raises and can't really answer. For example, For example,

732
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 3: we can tell a nice story about electrons repelling each

733
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 3: other by tossing photons back and forth, But how do

734
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:09,960
Speaker 3: things attract each other? If an electron and a positron

735
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 3: electromagnetism says they should be pulled together, how does an

736
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 3: electron or a positron throw a ball at the other

737
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,719
Speaker 3: one and pull it towards itself. It have to be

738
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 3: like a ball with negative momentum somehow.

739
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was about to say that, Why not.

740
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 3: Because if it's negative momentum, it's going the other direction, right.

741
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 2: Is that a requirement? Can I just come over with

742
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 2: a magical bowling ball it has negative momentum.

743
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 3: Having negative momentum really makes no sense. It's sort of

744
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 3: like having a negative mass or negative length, right. It

745
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 3: really just means momentum in the other direction. So if

746
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 3: you're gonna throw a ball to the right with negative momentum,

747
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 3: you're really throwing a ball to the.

748
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 2: Left right, which would push me towards the you right,

749
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 2: And so it would make sense.

750
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:51,560
Speaker 3: But that's not an exchange of particles. Right. Maybe the

751
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 3: electron throws off a ball in one direction, the positron

752
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 3: throws off the ball in the other direction. They move

753
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 3: towards each other. But now you also have these photons, right,

754
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 3: and we don't see those photons when electrons and positrons attract,

755
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 3: and then there's no exchange there. The electron and positron

756
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 3: are not actually exchanging particles there.

757
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:09,880
Speaker 2: Well, I feel like, you know, I'm new to this,

758
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:13,400
Speaker 2: so to me, it could all be magical, Daniel, unless

759
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 2: you make stuff up. I'm relying on YouTube. Tell me like, no,

760
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:17,720
Speaker 2: that's a fundamental law of the universe that you're breaking.

761
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 2: So like, let's have a magical bulling ball with negative momentum,

762
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 2: and you're you're standing in front of me, so to

763
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 2: toss it to you, I actually have to push it

764
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 2: back behind me, and then the ball would go towards you,

765
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:28,840
Speaker 2: and then when you catch it, it has negative momentum,

766
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 2: which would actually pull you towards me. When am I

767
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 2: breaking there?

768
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,440
Speaker 3: Okay, well then I'll just tell you that that's not allowed.

769
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:37,239
Speaker 3: You can't have particles with negative momentum. It just doesn't

770
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 3: make any sense.

771
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:40,319
Speaker 2: Hmmm, it says to you, but let's move on.

772
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:43,799
Speaker 3: You just have to me to tell you when you're

773
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,320
Speaker 3: breaking the rules, you breaking the rules. But there's also

774
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:48,480
Speaker 3: other parts of the story that don't really make sense,

775
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 3: Like how does the electron know the positron is there?

776
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 3: Has it no to admit a photon in one direction

777
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 3: to attract the positron?

778
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 2: M Yeah, That's one thing I've always wondered about this picture,

779
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:01,279
Speaker 2: is like, does that mean that electrons throwing a photons

780
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:03,319
Speaker 2: in all directions all the time and then it just

781
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 2: happens to interact, but other elect happens to catch it,

782
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:06,839
Speaker 2: then they're going to repel each other.

783
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:08,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly is that what you mean?

784
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:09,399
Speaker 2: Like that doesn't make sense?

785
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 3: That doesn't make sense, and then you would see those photons, right,

786
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 3: And if you stick your head between two particles that

787
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:16,919
Speaker 3: are supposedly exchanging photons, why can't you see them when

788
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:19,359
Speaker 3: magnets are floating above each other? Why can't you see

789
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,120
Speaker 3: flashes of light there? So there's all sorts of questions

790
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,879
Speaker 3: that are raised by this particle exchange model that don't

791
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 3: really have good answers.

792
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:28,919
Speaker 2: Okay, so this view doesn't seem to make sense. Where

793
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 2: did it come from? Who came up with this? And

794
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 2: the didn't they think of these things when they came

795
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 2: up with it.

796
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 3: They didn't have a cartoonist keeping them in check. That's

797
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:35,800
Speaker 3: really the problem.

798
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's really the problem. They're missing their cartoonists in

799
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 2: their science force.

800
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. Every physicist should have adult supervision in the

801
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:45,880
Speaker 3: form of a cartoonist. That's what we're learning today.

802
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 2: But then who supervises a cartoonist? And we're off the rails.

803
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 3: Yoda, I think, yoda. But yeah, where does this come from?

804
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:56,799
Speaker 3: It comes from? You won't be surprised to learn the

805
00:35:56,920 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 3: unfortunate naming of another idea. What's really happening here is

806
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:05,360
Speaker 3: not that there are literal photons, being exchanged between electrons

807
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:08,319
Speaker 3: or electrons and positrons. But there's something else happening. There's

808
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:12,319
Speaker 3: an interaction that we describe using the phrase virtual particles

809
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 3: and virtual particles. Because it has the word particle in

810
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:17,799
Speaker 3: it sounds like maybe it's a kind of particle, but

811
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:20,400
Speaker 3: really they're not particles at all.

812
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 2: Which you're saying, like the first person who came up

813
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 2: with this idea really meant virtual particles. But then at

814
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:27,840
Speaker 2: some point people stop using the word virtual.

815
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly when it transitions over into popular science, people

816
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 3: are like, you know, it's kind of like they're throwing

817
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:35,239
Speaker 3: photons back and forth. They're virtual particles, but you can

818
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:37,319
Speaker 3: think of them as particles, and that's exactly where it

819
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:39,479
Speaker 3: breaks down. If you think of them as particles, they're

820
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:41,839
Speaker 3: not really because they don't do all these other things

821
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:43,279
Speaker 3: you would expect particles to do.

822
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 2: All right, well, let's dig into what is actually going

823
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:49,600
Speaker 2: on virtually and for reals in this universe and see

824
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 2: if we can make sense of this picture of what

825
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:54,280
Speaker 2: a force is. So to stick into that, but first

826
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:55,880
Speaker 2: let's take another quick break.

827
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 4: When it comes to travel bags and backpacks, colorful and

828
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 4: unique options are hard to come by. Luckily, Babboon to

829
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:08,320
Speaker 4: the Moon has you covered. Baboon to the Moon's bags

830
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 4: are made for going places near and far, and for

831
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 4: making you the brightest star at Baggage claim made with

832
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 4: super durable materials. In a limited lifetime warranty, your Baboon

833
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:19,560
Speaker 4: to the moonbag will join you for all of life's mistrains,

834
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:23,839
Speaker 4: unexpected rain showers, love at first, sights, and compliments. Check

835
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 4: them out at Babboon to themoon dot com. Now get

836
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 4: lost and make the world more colorful.

837
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 3: Wow Vegas dot com.

838
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:31,719
Speaker 11: Well, no.

839
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 3: Win it.

840
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 12: Wow Vegas dot com America's best social casino with more

841
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:40,800
Speaker 12: than nine hundred three play games at your fingertips. Winners

842
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:43,680
Speaker 12: say wow when they play at Wow Vegas dot com.

843
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,640
Speaker 12: Experience the real thrills of Vegas at home or on

844
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 12: the go. Play your free coins today at Wow Vegas

845
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 12: dot com.

846
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 2: Well Vegas is a social casino. No purchase necessary. Avoid

847
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 2: for prohibited play responsorfing conditions applying. See website forty two.

848
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 2: Wow Vegas dot com.

849
00:37:56,800 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 3: Well, when you top a piece of cheese into your

850
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 3: mouth or enjoy a rich spoonful of Greek yogurt, you're

851
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:07,880
Speaker 3: probably not thinking about the environmental impact of each and

852
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 3: every bite. But the people in the dairy industry are

853
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:14,760
Speaker 3: US Dairy has set themselves some ambitious sustainability goals, including

854
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:17,839
Speaker 3: being greenhouse gas neutral by twenty to fifty. That's why

855
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 3: they're working hard every day to find new ways to

856
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:24,360
Speaker 3: reduce waste, conserve natural resources, and drive down greenhouse gas emissions.

857
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 3: Take water, for example, most dairy farms reuse water up

858
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 3: to four times the same water cools the milk, cleans equipment,

859
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 3: washes the barn, and irrigates the crops. How is US

860
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:37,960
Speaker 3: Dairy tackling greenhouse gases. Many farms use anaerobic digestors that

861
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 3: turn the methane from maneure into renewable energy that can

862
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:43,839
Speaker 3: power farms, towns, and electric cars. So the next time

863
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 3: you grab a slice of pizza or lick an ice

864
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:48,320
Speaker 3: cream cone, know that dairy farmers and processors around the

865
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:51,800
Speaker 3: country are using the latest practices and innovations to provide

866
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 3: the nutrient dense dairy products we love with less of

867
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:58,279
Speaker 3: an impact. Visit usdairy dot com slash sustainability to learn more.

868
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:03,239
Speaker 13: There friends and families walking, riding on passing the roads

869
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 13: every day. Remember they're real people with loved ones who

870
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 13: need them to get home safely. Protect our cyclists and

871
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:11,360
Speaker 13: pedestrians because they're people too, go safely. California from the

872
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:13,400
Speaker 13: California Office of Traffic Safety and Caltrans.

873
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:22,880
Speaker 2: All right, we're asking the question how do particles carry force?

874
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 2: And there's a view that maybe they exchange force particles.

875
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,760
Speaker 2: But Daniel, you're saying that actually they're not really exchanging particles.

876
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 2: They're exchanging virtual particles, which is kind of like bitcoin.

877
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 3: You know, it's not well, I mean if you say

878
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:41,399
Speaker 3: bitcoin is nothing like money, then yes, virtual particles are

879
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:42,120
Speaker 3: like bitcoin.

880
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, there you go. They're not real. They're just like

881
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:45,800
Speaker 2: a concept.

882
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 3: I mean, you're going to bring all the crypto bros

883
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 3: down on us, dude.

884
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:48,759
Speaker 2: Bring it on.

885
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:49,799
Speaker 3: Yeah.

886
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:52,480
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe they like to fund us in bitcoin or

887
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 2: dorsche coin.

888
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 3: Well, we can only pay virtual bills with virtual dollars,

889
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:57,279
Speaker 3: so I'm not sure how helpful that is.

890
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:01,400
Speaker 2: I feel like I have a virtual job anyways. But anyway,

891
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:03,239
Speaker 2: so explain it to us. What's the difference between a

892
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 2: particle and a virtual particle and how to virtual particles

893
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:06,880
Speaker 2: create forces?

894
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:09,760
Speaker 3: So what is a particle? Anyway? A particle is actually

895
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 3: a ripple in a field, Like what is a real photon.

896
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 3: A photon is a ripple in the electromagnetic field. The

897
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 3: whole field fills the universe, and a photon is a

898
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 3: very regular disturbance in that field. It's a very particular,

899
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 3: very special kind of disturbance that's sort of self sustaining.

900
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:28,960
Speaker 3: Like you point your flashlight up at Alpha Centauri. Those

901
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:32,319
Speaker 3: photons can go across light years and make it to

902
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:34,680
Speaker 3: Alpha Centauri. They don't get tired, they don't run out

903
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:37,759
Speaker 3: of steam. All that energy is compact in this perfect way.

904
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:40,800
Speaker 3: It's sloshing through the electromagnetic fields in this very special,

905
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:43,799
Speaker 3: particular way that lets it propagate through the universe. That's

906
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:46,839
Speaker 3: what a particle is, So like a very special kind

907
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 3: of disturbance in the field that satisfies a bunch of

908
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:51,360
Speaker 3: equations for how those field works.

909
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 2: Okay, it's a particle, not like a real object. It's

910
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 2: a little ripple, special ripple in a giant cosmic universe

911
00:40:58,200 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 2: spanding field.

912
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:04,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. Now, a virtual particle is also a disturbance

913
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:06,880
Speaker 3: in that field, but doesn't have any of those same properties.

914
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 3: Virtual particles are like basically everything else that field can do.

915
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:13,239
Speaker 3: If that field is disturbed by the presence of some

916
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 3: other particle. Then the field will slosh around and oscillate

917
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 3: a little bit, and then that'll die out. And that

918
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:21,520
Speaker 3: we can describe as virtual particles if you like, or

919
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:24,280
Speaker 3: you can just think about it as oscillations in the field.

920
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 3: But virtual particles are basically a way of thinking about

921
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 3: what else fields can do other than having particles in them.

922
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 2: Now is the difference said that one is sustainable or

923
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 2: sustained and the other one kind of fades away like

924
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 2: an electron. It's special in the electron field because it's

925
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:41,240
Speaker 2: there and it doesn't go away.

926
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:44,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. All these fields have equations to describe how

927
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,760
Speaker 3: they wiggle. The fields are always wiggling. They have kinetic energy,

928
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 3: which means they're moving. They have potential energy, which means

929
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 3: they have energy of their configuration. It's sort of like

930
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 3: a kid on a swing. Right, they're swinging back and forth.

931
00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:57,560
Speaker 3: And for a kid on a swing, you give them

932
00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 3: just the right push, they can swing really nicely. Right,

933
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:01,799
Speaker 3: if you push them at the right frequency, they can

934
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:04,200
Speaker 3: swing in a really nice, regular way. But there's also

935
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 3: other crazy things that that swing can do that aren't

936
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:09,359
Speaker 3: so nice and self sustaining, like you give that kid

937
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:11,719
Speaker 3: random pushes at random times, it's going to get a

938
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:14,400
Speaker 3: very chaotic sort of oscillation. So if you wiggle a

939
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:16,680
Speaker 3: field in just the right way, you can set up

940
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:20,239
Speaker 3: these self sustaining perturbations that will move through space. If

941
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:22,239
Speaker 3: you don't do it in just the right way, then

942
00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:24,840
Speaker 3: they sort of peeter out and the energy dissipates instead

943
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:26,720
Speaker 3: of like moving in a little compact blob.

944
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:30,880
Speaker 2: And so virtual particle is any wiggle of the field

945
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:33,799
Speaker 2: that is not self sustaining, which is not special like

946
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:36,080
Speaker 2: the wiggle that is an electron exactly.

947
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:38,279
Speaker 3: So an electron is a special wiggle and you can

948
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 3: see it, you can interact with it, same with a photon.

949
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:42,840
Speaker 3: A virtual particle is any other sort of disturbance in

950
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 3: the field that fades away really quickly. And there's sort

951
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:47,719
Speaker 3: of an argument in particle physics about what's the best

952
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 3: way to describe them. Some people think, look, let's just

953
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:52,839
Speaker 3: talk about the fields. Everything is a field. Particles are

954
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 3: actually wiggles in fields when they interact with each other,

955
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:58,840
Speaker 3: that's just fields interacting. Other people like this virtual particle story.

956
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:01,359
Speaker 3: They say, no, particles are basic thing, and let's talk

957
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:03,920
Speaker 3: about how they interact in terms of virtual particles. So

958
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 3: in some sense, virtual particles are just the story we

959
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:09,399
Speaker 3: tell ourselves to describe some things that fields can do.

960
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 3: But fields are really the more fundamental element of the universe,

961
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:14,440
Speaker 3: according to lots of physicists.

962
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:17,040
Speaker 2: Okay, so then it has to do it feels. But

963
00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:19,400
Speaker 2: then I guess what do you call these particles virtual?

964
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:21,960
Speaker 2: They seem as real as the other kinds of particles,

965
00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 2: like the electron.

966
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:24,719
Speaker 3: We call them virtual for a few reasons. Number one

967
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:26,799
Speaker 3: is they don't obey the rules that particles obey. These

968
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 3: real particles. They have like the same mass, right, so

969
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:32,319
Speaker 3: a real electron always has the same mass, and real

970
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:35,480
Speaker 3: photons always have zero mass. These other wiggles in the field,

971
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:37,440
Speaker 3: you can try to describe them in terms of a

972
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:40,239
Speaker 3: particle like story, but it breaks down because they don't

973
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:42,399
Speaker 3: follow the same rules. And so like, what is the

974
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 3: mass of this virtual photon? Well, if you try to

975
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 3: calculate a mass, you end up with weird numbers. Sometimes

976
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:49,960
Speaker 3: they have really huge mass, sometimes it's even negative. It's

977
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:52,200
Speaker 3: because it doesn't really apply. You're trying to describe a

978
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 3: bowling ball as a car, and you're asking, like, you know,

979
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 3: what's it like to drive. Well, it's not really anything

980
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:57,319
Speaker 3: like to drive a bowling ball.

981
00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:00,520
Speaker 2: Oh, how do you know. I just trying to ask

982
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 2: the tough questions here today, Daniel.

983
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:04,120
Speaker 3: No, these are great questions. I love that you can't

984
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:06,319
Speaker 3: be flat footed with questions like what is it really

985
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 3: like to drive a bowling ball?

986
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:12,200
Speaker 2: I mean for making blanket statements here, but the nature

987
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:13,920
Speaker 2: of bowling balls we need to back it up with

988
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 2: real science.

989
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:17,640
Speaker 3: The point is that we have these weird disturbances in

990
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:20,399
Speaker 3: the field that we can describe mathematically, but they don't

991
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 3: have the same behavior as normal particles, and so we

992
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:24,919
Speaker 3: can't interpret them in the same way.

993
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:28,319
Speaker 2: Okay, so they're weird wiggles in the field. They're not

994
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 2: as as special as the particles. You call them virtual particles. Now,

995
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:34,440
Speaker 2: how do they actually transmit a force?

996
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:37,360
Speaker 3: All these fields contain energy, right. An electron is a

997
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:39,920
Speaker 3: little pulse in the field, so vibration of the fields.

998
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:42,920
Speaker 3: It's an excited state of the field. It has energy.

999
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 3: So in this field picture, how do two electrons push

1000
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:48,480
Speaker 3: on each other? They do so through the electromagnetic field.

1001
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:51,799
Speaker 2: So we're talking about multiple fields now, right, So there's

1002
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 2: an electron field and then there's a photon field, which

1003
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 2: is the electromagnetic force field. Yes, and you're saying, like,

1004
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:00,839
Speaker 2: the two electrons are in the same field. Field, they're

1005
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:03,239
Speaker 2: sharing the same field, but to talk to each other

1006
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:05,160
Speaker 2: they have to go through another field.

1007
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:08,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's exactly right. The field doesn't interact with itself. Right.

1008
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:11,680
Speaker 3: You have these two fields that fill space, the electromagnetic

1009
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:15,359
Speaker 3: field and the electron field. These are two separate fields, right.

1010
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:17,360
Speaker 3: For one of them, the excited state of that field

1011
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:20,720
Speaker 3: is an electron. For the other one, for the electromagnetic field,

1012
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:22,560
Speaker 3: the excited state of it is a photon.

1013
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:25,760
Speaker 2: Right now, why can't they interact within the same field,

1014
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:27,759
Speaker 2: Like if I have the ocean like a way will

1015
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:28,799
Speaker 2: interact with another wave.

1016
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 3: Some fields will do that, like the strong force. Gluons

1017
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:35,880
Speaker 3: can interact directly with themselves, but photons can't interact with photons,

1018
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:38,280
Speaker 3: and electrons can't interact with other electrons.

1019
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:40,440
Speaker 2: It's just a weird happenstance of the universe that the

1020
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:41,799
Speaker 2: electron field can't do that.

1021
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:44,800
Speaker 3: That's right. Some fields are allowed to interact directly with themselves,

1022
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:46,799
Speaker 3: but the electron field doesn't do that. And you might

1023
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 3: ask why, and it's just description. This is what we've

1024
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:49,840
Speaker 3: see in the field.

1025
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:53,040
Speaker 2: Do okay, So they talked through the photon field, and

1026
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 2: so what's going on. Where are the virtual particles in

1027
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:57,520
Speaker 2: the photon field or the electron field.

1028
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:00,520
Speaker 3: They're in the photon field. So these are virtual photons.

1029
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:03,480
Speaker 3: And again they're not real particles. They're like weird disturbances

1030
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:06,440
Speaker 3: in the field. So electron number one causes a disturbance

1031
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:08,600
Speaker 3: in the photon field, and it does that all the time,

1032
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:11,879
Speaker 3: like an electron can't exist without disturbing the photon field.

1033
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:14,880
Speaker 3: It's doing it all the time. It's constantly interacting with

1034
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:17,800
Speaker 3: the photon field, and the photon field is constantly interacting

1035
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:20,239
Speaker 3: with electron fields, like a photon flying through space is

1036
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 3: constantly interacting with the electron field. It's not like it

1037
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:26,200
Speaker 3: just sometimes does. And so the electron is causing these

1038
00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:30,080
Speaker 3: disturbances in the photon field. And if those disturbances interact

1039
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 3: with another electron, then that's effectively momentum transfer from one

1040
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:36,480
Speaker 3: electron to another through the photon field, which you could

1041
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:39,799
Speaker 3: also say is the exchange of a virtual photon. But

1042
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:41,960
Speaker 3: it's not really a particle. It's not a particle you

1043
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:43,799
Speaker 3: could like see with your eyes or if you put

1044
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:46,440
Speaker 3: a detector in there, because it's not a real photon.

1045
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:48,160
Speaker 3: It's just a ripple in the photon field that we

1046
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:51,359
Speaker 3: call a virtual particle to connect with this story about

1047
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:53,440
Speaker 3: electrons passing particles back and forth.

1048
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 2: But I feel like this all sounds great, but I

1049
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:57,399
Speaker 2: feel like you just going to run into the same

1050
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:00,319
Speaker 2: question as you did with the real particles a picture, right,

1051
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 2: because you might say this is not bowling balls, there's

1052
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:04,719
Speaker 2: a virtual bowling ball, or it's a tennis ball, but

1053
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:07,120
Speaker 2: you're still you're still running too the same questions like

1054
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:09,480
Speaker 2: if I toss a virtual a tennis ball to you,

1055
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:11,040
Speaker 2: how did I know where you were? And how did

1056
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:12,640
Speaker 2: you know to catch it? And why am I not

1057
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:15,160
Speaker 2: shooting tennis balls in all directions? And what if you're

1058
00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:17,320
Speaker 2: a positron and I'm an electron, how do we repel

1059
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:20,360
Speaker 2: each other? How do we throw a negatively momentum a

1060
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:20,960
Speaker 2: tennis ball?

1061
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:23,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, great questions and we can actually answer all

1062
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:26,960
Speaker 3: of them now, right, So an electron is constantly creating

1063
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:28,759
Speaker 3: these ripples in the field. It doesn't have to know

1064
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:31,239
Speaker 3: that the positron or the other electron is there. It's

1065
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:34,560
Speaker 3: constantly creating these ripples in the electromagnetic field. That's just

1066
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 3: what it does. The two fields are constantly interacting, so

1067
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:39,320
Speaker 3: you don't have to know the other particle is there.

1068
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:42,799
Speaker 2: So it's constantly in all directions shooting virtual photons. Yes,

1069
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:44,600
Speaker 2: where does this energy come from? And wouldn't you be

1070
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:46,520
Speaker 2: able to see them? It's the same question you have

1071
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:47,479
Speaker 2: with the photons, right.

1072
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:50,480
Speaker 3: Mm hmm. The energy dissipates, right, So virtual photons are

1073
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:52,719
Speaker 3: not like real particles that you could interact with. It's

1074
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 3: not like it's shooting a light bulb at Alpha centauri

1075
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:57,759
Speaker 3: and eventually it will be seen. These fade away really quickly,

1076
00:47:57,800 --> 00:47:59,080
Speaker 3: and if you try to think about them in terms

1077
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:01,240
Speaker 3: of a particle, it's really just part of the story.

1078
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:04,000
Speaker 3: There's lots of complicated ripples going on. You can describe

1079
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:06,360
Speaker 3: them in terms of one virtual photon or two virtual

1080
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:09,760
Speaker 3: photons or seventeen virtual photons. That's really just an attempt

1081
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:11,960
Speaker 3: to describe what's happening to the field. But to get

1082
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:15,279
Speaker 3: back to the question, basically, the two fields are constantly interacting.

1083
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:17,719
Speaker 3: So if a positron comes by, then the fact that

1084
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:21,480
Speaker 3: there's an electron there, the electron is affecting the electromagnetic field.

1085
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:24,680
Speaker 3: That the positron is also constantly interacting with So yeah, basically,

1086
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:27,919
Speaker 3: you're constantly shooting these virtual particles. Answered the other question,

1087
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:30,120
Speaker 3: you're like, well, then how do you attract virtual particles?

1088
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:31,919
Speaker 3: Don't have to obey that law I told you about

1089
00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:34,640
Speaker 3: earlier about what because they're not really particles.

1090
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:38,439
Speaker 2: There you go possible, Yes, exactly, He's told me that

1091
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:43,239
Speaker 2: it was not possible, Daniel, for particles, or.

1092
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:45,880
Speaker 3: For bowling balls, or for tennis balls. Particles have to

1093
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:49,000
Speaker 3: obey that law. Virtual particles are not particles. It feels

1094
00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:50,799
Speaker 3: like a cop out because we're saying, oh, you put

1095
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:52,600
Speaker 3: virtual on it. You don't have to obey the rules.

1096
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:54,800
Speaker 3: Like if I'm drigging my virtual car, can I ignore

1097
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:57,480
Speaker 3: the speed limits. It's not really a particle. It's just

1098
00:48:57,520 --> 00:48:59,920
Speaker 3: a ripple in the field, and these fields can have

1099
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:02,680
Speaker 3: all sorts of weird ripples in them that don't obey

1100
00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:06,320
Speaker 3: the rules of normal particles, like negative mass or crazy

1101
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:08,880
Speaker 3: high mass photons. That feels like a contradiction.

1102
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:12,000
Speaker 2: So it is like I'm shooting a negative momentum tennis

1103
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:14,280
Speaker 2: ball at you. Right, that's what you're saying.

1104
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:16,920
Speaker 3: Sort of, except that these are not particles, right, They're ripples.

1105
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:19,080
Speaker 3: They're ripples exactly.

1106
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 2: Just like a particle is.

1107
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:23,120
Speaker 3: A particle is a special kind of ripple that like

1108
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:26,520
Speaker 3: satisfies the wave equation of the field. Virtual particles do

1109
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:28,440
Speaker 3: not satisfy that, and so you can't even ask the

1110
00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:30,600
Speaker 3: question like what is the mass of this thing? There

1111
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:32,960
Speaker 3: are energy and they are flowing through the field, but

1112
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:34,120
Speaker 3: they're not particles.

1113
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:34,920
Speaker 1: Hmmm.

1114
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:36,480
Speaker 2: I feel like you're trying to get me in a

1115
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:37,439
Speaker 2: technicality here.

1116
00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:39,719
Speaker 3: Physics is technicalities, man.

1117
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:43,040
Speaker 2: But I guess the main question is, so you're saying

1118
00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:46,359
Speaker 2: that if we put the word virtual in front of it,

1119
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:49,160
Speaker 2: then this whole picture of exchanging particles work. You just

1120
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:51,440
Speaker 2: have to call them virtual so that they can break

1121
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 2: the rules of regular particles.

1122
00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:55,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, but they're not even really particles, right. I feel

1123
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:57,680
Speaker 3: like it's really misleading to just say, oh, it's a

1124
00:49:57,760 --> 00:49:59,680
Speaker 3: kind of particle. It's not a kind of particle. It's

1125
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:02,600
Speaker 3: a tot different thing. Virtual particles are kinds of particles

1126
00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:04,360
Speaker 3: the way bowling balls are types of cars.

1127
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:06,719
Speaker 2: Well, I see, Really the name should be a non

1128
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:07,760
Speaker 2: particle ripple.

1129
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:10,920
Speaker 3: Yes, exactly. Come up with a better name than virtual particle,

1130
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:13,359
Speaker 3: because that has misled millions of people.

1131
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:15,560
Speaker 2: Now is that the best name for it, a non

1132
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:16,600
Speaker 2: particle ripple.

1133
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:19,920
Speaker 3: I feel like that's confusing because you're still using the

1134
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:20,600
Speaker 3: word particle.

1135
00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:23,560
Speaker 2: No, but it's a non particle ripple. It's a ripple.

1136
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:25,760
Speaker 2: That doesn't mean all the requirements of a particle.

1137
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:28,120
Speaker 3: Should I describe my bowling ball as a non car

1138
00:50:28,239 --> 00:50:28,839
Speaker 3: bowling ball?

1139
00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:31,560
Speaker 2: It causes confusion? Yeah, for sure.

1140
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:33,200
Speaker 3: It has nothing to do with cars. I should also

1141
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:35,799
Speaker 3: describe it as a non banana ball and a non

1142
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:36,600
Speaker 3: chocolate ball.

1143
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:38,719
Speaker 2: Well, no, I mean the difference is that of this

1144
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:41,719
Speaker 2: virtual particle in this particle have something common, which is

1145
00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:43,440
Speaker 2: that they're both ripples in a field.

1146
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:46,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true. Bowling balls and cars both can roll

1147
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:49,080
Speaker 3: down the road, right, very different things. I feel like

1148
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:50,759
Speaker 3: you're trying to get me in a technicality here.

1149
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:55,080
Speaker 2: No, just trying to understand you're confusing nomenclature here. But

1150
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:57,879
Speaker 2: I mean, just so we can reach an understanding maybe

1151
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:00,560
Speaker 2: with our listeners, would you say that a better way

1152
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:04,200
Speaker 2: to call these things is as non particle ripples in

1153
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:05,880
Speaker 2: the field, because I feel like that's what you just

1154
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:06,600
Speaker 2: explain it as.

1155
00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:09,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's definitely better than virtual particles because they're not

1156
00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:12,279
Speaker 3: particles and they are ripples in the field. Yes, there

1157
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:12,520
Speaker 3: you go.

1158
00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:16,040
Speaker 2: But some ripples are particles, but those are special and

1159
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:18,040
Speaker 2: so these are not those kinds exactly.

1160
00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:21,240
Speaker 3: And we often describe these in terms of virtual particles

1161
00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:23,279
Speaker 3: because we like to think about particles particles are the

1162
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:25,920
Speaker 3: things we observe. We never see the field directly, right,

1163
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:28,240
Speaker 3: You never observe a field. You only see the effect

1164
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:30,080
Speaker 3: of the field on a particle. So a lot of

1165
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:32,359
Speaker 3: people like to think of the particles as the sort

1166
00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 3: of basic stuff that we're using to describe the universe,

1167
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:38,000
Speaker 3: and in order to describe how they interactly, think about

1168
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:39,560
Speaker 3: that in terms of particles. And we draw these cute

1169
00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:42,440
Speaker 3: little finement diagrams that include like little wiggles in the

1170
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:44,880
Speaker 3: paper that we say are virtual particles. So it's a

1171
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:47,040
Speaker 3: compelling story, but we should always remember these are not

1172
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:49,799
Speaker 3: really particles. They're really just different kinds of ripples in

1173
00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:50,280
Speaker 3: a field.

1174
00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:53,880
Speaker 2: Well, and I mean to be a pain, but it's

1175
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:55,960
Speaker 2: a little bit like says you, kind of right, Like

1176
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:58,920
Speaker 2: you're saying that the boundary of the definition of a

1177
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:02,000
Speaker 2: particle is that it meets all these rules. Now, is

1178
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:04,759
Speaker 2: that something that's totally accepted by every physicist or would

1179
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:06,800
Speaker 2: some physicists say, well, I would say any ripple is

1180
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:07,280
Speaker 2: a particle.

1181
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:10,319
Speaker 3: No, I think that's totally acceptable. And also, you can

1182
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:13,959
Speaker 3: see real particles. You can't ever see virtual particles. They're

1183
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:17,160
Speaker 3: just a part of the description. This feels very complicated ripples,

1184
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:19,600
Speaker 3: and you can describe part of it using a virtual particle,

1185
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:21,680
Speaker 3: but to describe it fully you need like an infinite

1186
00:52:21,719 --> 00:52:24,319
Speaker 3: number of virtual particles. So the virtual particles are just

1187
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:27,040
Speaker 3: like a component of the story. They're not a real

1188
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:30,160
Speaker 3: thing in any sense. You can't see or interact with

1189
00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:31,080
Speaker 3: a virtual particle.

1190
00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:33,000
Speaker 2: Would you sort of see them? When two electrons repel

1191
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:35,040
Speaker 2: each other, aren't you sort of seeing them?

1192
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:37,320
Speaker 3: Not directly? I mean, if you had like a photon counter,

1193
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:39,799
Speaker 3: you wouldn't register any photons there. You're right, you can

1194
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:42,960
Speaker 3: see the effect on two electrons. Absolutely well.

1195
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:45,759
Speaker 2: You can't see a photon either without interacting with it, right, Yeah,

1196
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:46,200
Speaker 2: But here.

1197
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:48,399
Speaker 3: You're one more step removed. Right here, you're seeing its

1198
00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:51,000
Speaker 3: effect on the electron. You're not even interacting with a

1199
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:53,400
Speaker 3: photon because you can't because it's not a real photon,

1200
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:54,360
Speaker 3: a virtual photon.

1201
00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:58,440
Speaker 2: Now, okay, so then you're saying that forces happen in

1202
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:02,080
Speaker 2: the universe between two particles with a capital P because

1203
00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:06,799
Speaker 2: they interchange virtual particles or non particle ripples in the

1204
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:09,520
Speaker 2: quantum field. Yes, does that mean that everything's explained now?

1205
00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:10,280
Speaker 2: That works?

1206
00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:13,399
Speaker 3: That works. That is a very effective description of how

1207
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:16,600
Speaker 3: particles interact and allows us to predict what particles will

1208
00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:20,080
Speaker 3: do with extraordinary accuracy, which makes us feel like maybe

1209
00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:20,880
Speaker 3: we got it right.

1210
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:23,040
Speaker 2: And in this picture, like an electron is just sitting

1211
00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:26,160
Speaker 2: there in space and it's shooting an infinite number of

1212
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:28,200
Speaker 2: ripples in all directions all the time.

1213
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:30,480
Speaker 3: Well, the two fields are interacting with each other. The

1214
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:33,680
Speaker 3: electromagnetic field and the electron field are interacting with each other.

1215
00:53:33,719 --> 00:53:35,839
Speaker 3: The energy is kind of going back and forth, right,

1216
00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:38,759
Speaker 3: it's a constant interaction. You can describe that as like

1217
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:41,960
Speaker 3: the electron creeds virtual photons which it then absorbs, or

1218
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:45,480
Speaker 3: maybe those virtual photons interact with a passing positron or electron,

1219
00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:47,319
Speaker 3: or you can just think about it as fields sort

1220
00:53:47,360 --> 00:53:48,880
Speaker 3: of pulsing back and forth together.

1221
00:53:49,160 --> 00:53:52,799
Speaker 2: Oh, I see, there's no like energy being generated. It's

1222
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:55,320
Speaker 2: like the electron puts some energy into the photon field

1223
00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:58,279
Speaker 2: and maybe that energy doesn't like dissipate, it goes back

1224
00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:01,000
Speaker 2: to the electron, but unless maybe there's another electron nearby,

1225
00:54:01,120 --> 00:54:03,200
Speaker 2: or a positron, in which case some of that energy

1226
00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:06,680
Speaker 2: goes to the other particles. Exactly, all right, that was

1227
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:09,640
Speaker 2: not a forced conversation at all. He got very real,

1228
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:10,520
Speaker 2: not virtual.

1229
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:14,880
Speaker 3: And somewhere out there in some universe, Yoda is driving

1230
00:54:14,920 --> 00:54:16,919
Speaker 3: his bowling ball down the road and this all makes

1231
00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:19,040
Speaker 3: sense to him on his way to his yoga class.

1232
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:24,120
Speaker 2: Hot yoga class. Yes. Now, do you think both Jedis

1233
00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:28,239
Speaker 2: and Sith practice yoga? Or is this something only the

1234
00:54:28,320 --> 00:54:29,040
Speaker 2: Jedi would do?

1235
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:31,560
Speaker 3: I wonder if there's dark yoga there you go?

1236
00:54:31,719 --> 00:54:36,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, evil yoga. All yoga is evil. Maybe what's the

1237
00:54:36,239 --> 00:54:39,520
Speaker 2: other one? Pilates? Maybe pilates is what the Scith practice.

1238
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:41,919
Speaker 3: Yeah, forever he will dominate their strenchiness.

1239
00:54:42,080 --> 00:54:44,480
Speaker 2: That's right? All right? Well, I think this has been

1240
00:54:44,560 --> 00:54:48,200
Speaker 2: an interesting exploration of how physicists view the universe and

1241
00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:50,759
Speaker 2: how particles interact. But again, this is just kind of

1242
00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:53,880
Speaker 2: your view of it, right, Who knows what's really happening underneath?

1243
00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:56,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, philosophically, this is just a story we tell that

1244
00:54:56,840 --> 00:54:59,680
Speaker 3: explains experiments. Is any of it true? Do the elements

1245
00:54:59,719 --> 00:55:02,560
Speaker 3: of our ideas actually correspond? To real physical things happening

1246
00:55:02,600 --> 00:55:05,560
Speaker 3: out there in the universe. That's for philosophers to decide.

1247
00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:07,960
Speaker 2: All right, well, we hope you enjoyed that. Thanks for

1248
00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:09,680
Speaker 2: joining us. See you next night.

1249
00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:16,160
Speaker 3: For more science and curiosity, come find us on social

1250
00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:21,080
Speaker 3: media where we answer questions and post videos. We're on Twitter, Discord, Insta,

1251
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:24,640
Speaker 3: and now TikTok. Thanks for listening and remember that Daniel

1252
00:55:24,680 --> 00:55:28,120
Speaker 3: and Jorge Explain the Universe is a production of iHeartRadio.

1253
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:33,520
Speaker 3: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1254
00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:36,040
Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

1255
00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:44,960
Speaker 1: Have you boosted your business with Lenovo Pro yet? Become

1256
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:48,040
Speaker 1: a Lenovo Pro member for free today and unlock access

1257
00:55:48,080 --> 00:55:52,120
Speaker 1: to Lenovo's exclusive business store for technology expert advisors and

1258
00:55:52,239 --> 00:55:56,040
Speaker 1: essential products and services designed just for you. Visit Lenovo

1259
00:55:56,080 --> 00:55:58,640
Speaker 1: dot com slash Lenovo Pro to sign up for free.

1260
00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:05,839
Speaker 1: That's Lenovo dot COM's Lenovo Pro. Unlock new AI experiences

1261
00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:08,520
Speaker 1: with Lenovo's think Pad x one carbon powered by Intel

1262
00:56:08,560 --> 00:56:09,720
Speaker 1: Core ultraprocessors.

1263
00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:14,040
Speaker 3: When you pop a piece of cheese into your mouth,

1264
00:56:14,080 --> 00:56:17,360
Speaker 3: you're probably not thinking about the environmental impact, but the

1265
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:20,280
Speaker 3: people in the dairy industry are That's why they're working

1266
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:22,920
Speaker 3: hard every day to find new ways to reduce waste,

1267
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:27,120
Speaker 3: conserve natural resources, and drive down greenhouse gas emissions. How

1268
00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:31,120
Speaker 3: is us Dairy tackling greenhouse gases? Many farms use anaerobic

1269
00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:34,920
Speaker 3: digestors to turn the methane from manure into renewable energy

1270
00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:38,560
Speaker 3: that can power farms, towns, and electric cars. Visit you

1271
00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:41,600
Speaker 3: as dairy dot COM's Last Sustainability to learn more.

1272
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:48,200
Speaker 11: Progroup brand products have the great taste you'll celebrate. That's

1273
00:56:48,239 --> 00:56:52,000
Speaker 11: why over forty million people choose Kroger brand products, making them.

1274
00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:53,440
Speaker 3: A true crowd pleaser.

1275
00:56:55,120 --> 00:56:58,600
Speaker 11: And with quality guaranteed you'll love your choice or get

1276
00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:03,759
Speaker 11: your money back. M score Kroger brand products with savings

1277
00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:07,400
Speaker 11: you can cheer for and great taste you can't resist.

1278
00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:11,800
Speaker 2: Kroger Fresh for everyone