WEBVTT - Sam Adler-Bell & John Bisognano 0:00:00.640 --> 0:00:04.160 Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:07.120 where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 0:00:07.160 --> 0:00:08.600 today's best minds. 0:00:08.880 --> 0:00:10.320 And this CBO, the. 0:00:10.360 --> 0:00:14.600 Non partisan Congressional Budget Office, says the Republican megabill. 0:00:14.160 --> 0:00:18.239 Will now cost four point one trillion dollars due to 0:00:18.560 --> 0:00:20.240 higher borrowing costs. 0:00:20.400 --> 0:00:22.560 We have such a great show for you today, Know 0:00:22.720 --> 0:00:23.880 your Enemy's own. 0:00:24.200 --> 0:00:27.240 Sam Adler Bell stops by to talk to us. 0:00:27.080 --> 0:00:31.240 About why Democrats attack their best messengers. Then we'll talk 0:00:31.360 --> 0:00:38.400 to NDRC's John Visignano about Texas is an insane jerrymandering plan. 0:00:38.600 --> 0:00:40.320 But first the news Somali. 0:00:40.760 --> 0:00:45.040 We keep tracking these ICE arrests. We read a report 0:00:45.080 --> 0:00:47.960 on the last episode that it seems it's gotten through 0:00:48.159 --> 0:00:52.680 Stephen Miller's skull as odd as it's shaped, that they 0:00:52.680 --> 0:00:55.880 can't arrest three thousand immigrants a day, and the ICE 0:00:55.960 --> 0:00:58.520 arrests are actually declining amid the backlash. 0:00:58.960 --> 0:01:02.319 So you'll be shocked to hear that. By the way, 0:01:02.360 --> 0:01:08.559 there was photographs today of ICE agents carrying like little girl. 0:01:09.560 --> 0:01:12.760 Yeah yeah, it was horrifor was yesterday, Yeah. 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:16.720 Yeah, yesterday, She's like four eleven, carrying her down the street. 0:01:16.840 --> 0:01:20.959 They put her in a facility, in that Louisiana facility. Yeah, 0:01:21.120 --> 0:01:24.240 let me tell you what's happening here. People are seeing 0:01:24.280 --> 0:01:28.200 these photographs and they are horrified, and they're seeing these 0:01:28.280 --> 0:01:31.199 videos and they're horrified. They're seeing the kind of stuff 0:01:31.200 --> 0:01:34.240 that pro Publica reported. I don't know if ESAs, but 0:01:34.319 --> 0:01:38.039 pro Publica had this sort of amazing and deeply disturbing 0:01:38.600 --> 0:01:43.280 reporting about all of the windows that ICE agents have 0:01:43.400 --> 0:01:47.560 broken in people's cars in order to arrest them. And 0:01:47.760 --> 0:01:53.400 you have these women crying, you have pregnant women crying, 0:01:53.920 --> 0:01:55.760 children watching in horror. 0:01:55.880 --> 0:01:59.520 I mean, this is this is pretty bleak stuff. And 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:02.400 guess what what, voters don't like it. 0:02:02.560 --> 0:02:04.840 I know they don't. You know, ICE was actually on 0:02:04.920 --> 0:02:06.800 my block the day before yesterday. 0:02:06.960 --> 0:02:08.040 Ooh, what were they doing? 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:11.480 Well, you know, they were walking around making people scared. 0:02:11.680 --> 0:02:14.320 And what you saw is a lot of people being various, 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:16.320 made in people figuring out how they're going to get 0:02:16.320 --> 0:02:19.040 in their way, and they had a nice hiring sign 0:02:19.080 --> 0:02:21.600 on the side of the truck and it was deeply disturbing. 0:02:21.880 --> 0:02:26.080 The average arrests it was twelve hundred daily arrests in June, 0:02:26.200 --> 0:02:29.519 well short of what Stephen Miller's stated goal of three 0:02:29.600 --> 0:02:31.760 thousand immigration arrests for day. 0:02:31.960 --> 0:02:32.919 Here's one of those. 0:02:32.760 --> 0:02:35.520 Things that Stephen Miller is about to find out there 0:02:35.600 --> 0:02:40.520 aren't that many people to arrest. And also, this is 0:02:40.639 --> 0:02:43.200 just going to I mean, it's going to derail the economy, 0:02:43.240 --> 0:02:46.519 but before it does, it's going to derail the administration. 0:02:47.040 --> 0:02:49.000 And lots of it is in people's lives. 0:02:49.200 --> 0:02:53.079 I think it's important to say, like morally reprehensible, politically 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:56.359 very stupid, and we're going to see this play out 0:02:56.520 --> 0:02:58.519 in a real way. I bet we're going to see 0:02:58.520 --> 0:03:02.360 a play out during this twenty twenty five election cycle too, 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:03.320 I really do. 0:03:03.440 --> 0:03:06.680 We're seeing these town halls now. And I talked to. 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:11.359 James Talarico, who is a Texas state legislator, or who 0:03:11.480 --> 0:03:13.640 was a Texas state legislator. 0:03:13.120 --> 0:03:15.440 And is now thinking about possibly running for. 0:03:15.440 --> 0:03:18.520 The Senate, and he was talking about just how much 0:03:19.080 --> 0:03:23.040 this world like people are really mad, Like he had 0:03:23.080 --> 0:03:25.080 a town hall and he said that he had never 0:03:25.200 --> 0:03:27.640 had so many people at his town hall, Like I 0:03:27.680 --> 0:03:30.240 think we in the mainstream media may be missing this 0:03:30.360 --> 0:03:35.280 story of these furious, furious, furious voters. 0:03:35.520 --> 0:03:37.120 And I saw it when I was on. 0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:40.880 My book tour talk about being a coastal elitist here, 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:41.760 but I did. 0:03:41.840 --> 0:03:43.160 I saw people really mad. 0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:45.760 And I think, you know, when we see this poor 0:03:45.800 --> 0:03:49.560 polling for Democrats, it's not and we've talked about this before, 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:51.680 but I think it's important to just reiterate it. It's 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:56.440 not that Democrats have lost interest in other Democrats. It's 0:03:56.480 --> 0:03:59.120 that Democrats feel that their party is not as mad 0:03:59.200 --> 0:04:01.960 as they are. And I think that is the real 0:04:02.800 --> 0:04:04.320 That's what explains those numbers. 0:04:04.520 --> 0:04:04.800 Yeah. 0:04:05.240 --> 0:04:07.280 Really, what you could see is you can contrust two 0:04:07.320 --> 0:04:11.040 types of polls. Democratic policy is good, the elected officials 0:04:11.040 --> 0:04:12.560 were bringing to fight for them. 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:16.719 Not popular, Yeah, not popular because they're not doing what 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:18.200 their voters want them to. 0:04:18.720 --> 0:04:22.600 That's correct. So one of the things I'm really obsessed 0:04:22.600 --> 0:04:26.040 with is this Project twenty twenty five tracker. So we're 0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:29.920 a little over six months into this Trump administration, meaning 0:04:30.120 --> 0:04:32.680 one eighth of the way through it, Dear God help us, 0:04:32.839 --> 0:04:36.800 and Project twenty twenty five is already forty seven percent complete. 0:04:37.000 --> 0:04:39.280 Yeah, a lot of this stuff they wanted to do 0:04:39.320 --> 0:04:40.839 in Project twenty twenty. 0:04:40.520 --> 0:04:43.320 Five they are clearly doing right. 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:47.920 The attacks on institutions that making the DOJ and arm 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:51.960 of the Trump administration. There were a lot of opportunities 0:04:52.000 --> 0:04:55.520 that the folks at the Heritage Foundation were able to 0:04:55.880 --> 0:04:58.600 put it together to find, So I think this is 0:04:58.640 --> 0:05:03.560 probably pretty accurate. I would say that it's just we're 0:05:03.640 --> 0:05:04.280 just going to have. 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:07.159 To do a lot of a lot of soul searching. 0:05:06.920 --> 0:05:11.520 And a lot of regulation, and a lot of connecting 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:15.719 with each other and with voters, and we're going to 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:21.080 have to really start a kind of now, you know, reconciliation, 0:05:21.360 --> 0:05:27.120 a kind of return to American normalcy, and it's going 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:28.440 to be a long process. 0:05:28.480 --> 0:05:31.680 But yes, it's here. We see it happening right now, 0:05:31.839 --> 0:05:32.680 and it's bad. 0:05:33.160 --> 0:05:33.480 Yeah. 0:05:33.640 --> 0:05:36.159 Speaking of that, there is a new poll that says 0:05:36.279 --> 0:05:39.320 most US adults are stressed by grocery costs. I noticed 0:05:39.440 --> 0:05:43.160 my local grocery store just three weeks ago announced that 0:05:43.200 --> 0:05:46.600 they have heard their consumers and they are doing everything 0:05:46.640 --> 0:05:48.840 they can to find the ways they could cut costs 0:05:48.920 --> 0:05:53.240 at the store because they see how enormously costs of skyrocketed. 0:05:54.120 --> 0:05:55.960 No groceries are really expected. 0:05:55.960 --> 0:05:57.480 I go to a grocery store and I'm like, huh, 0:05:57.720 --> 0:06:02.520 it's shockingly expensive. And part of that is inflation. And 0:06:02.600 --> 0:06:04.479 part of that is inflation, and by the way. I 0:06:04.520 --> 0:06:06.640 was told that Donald Trump was going to bring the 0:06:06.680 --> 0:06:08.880 price of groceries down on day one. 0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:12.240 You know what day it is like one hundred and ninety. 0:06:12.040 --> 0:06:15.320 Something, and the price of groceries they're not down, let 0:06:15.320 --> 0:06:15.840 me tell you. 0:06:16.120 --> 0:06:17.360 But I like that. 0:06:17.800 --> 0:06:19.680 My favorite thing is he has it all. 0:06:21.320 --> 0:06:24.679 He's laser focused on bringing down the prices of things. 0:06:24.960 --> 0:06:26.920 That's why he's walking on the White House roof. 0:06:27.000 --> 0:06:29.080 Boy, wait, he's walking on the White House roof. 0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:32.080 Oh you haven't seen this. Everybody thinks it's a distraction 0:06:32.160 --> 0:06:35.000 from Epstein. I actually think it's that he's losing his 0:06:35.080 --> 0:06:37.000 shit with the de Bedsha. 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:40.360 My favorite thing is that he is laser focused on 0:06:40.480 --> 0:06:44.440 putting the big banks in the process. The President accuses 0:06:44.560 --> 0:06:48.040 both JP Morgan Chase and Bank of America of discrimination 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:50.520 by refusing to take his personal business. 0:06:50.720 --> 0:06:52.200 You know, when you are. 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:56.279 In a Banana republic, it's important that your monarch makes 0:06:56.360 --> 0:07:01.280 lots of truly unhinged declarations, and this can be one 0:07:01.320 --> 0:07:04.800 of them. He is going to direct regulators to penalize 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:08.600 anybody found who have dropped a client on political grounds, 0:07:08.720 --> 0:07:10.240 including Donald J. 0:07:10.400 --> 0:07:12.920 Trump. Incredible stuff, No notes. 0:07:16.240 --> 0:07:18.600 Sam Adler Bell is the co host of the Know 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:22.680 Your Enemy Podcast. Welcome to Fast Politics, Sam Adler. 0:07:22.320 --> 0:07:24.680 Bell, Hi, Molly, so happy to be here. 0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:25.840 Here we are. 0:07:25.880 --> 0:07:30.560 Another day in paradise or authoritarian tilt towards whatever is 0:07:30.600 --> 0:07:33.640 happening here. Tell me what are the things that are 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:35.360 keeping you up at night? 0:07:35.760 --> 0:07:39.240 Not out of fear, but out of just burning contempt. 0:07:39.640 --> 0:07:44.440 This story, burning contempt, this story with firing the BLS 0:07:44.600 --> 0:07:50.120 chief over the bad jobs numbers. I you know, it's 0:07:50.160 --> 0:07:52.480 like the thing with Trump is you're always going back 0:07:52.560 --> 0:07:55.880 and forth between like, God, this is a really scary 0:07:55.920 --> 0:08:01.760 situation and God, this contemptible fool who is a narcissist, 0:08:01.800 --> 0:08:05.640 who like just shouldn't be anywhere near a single lever 0:08:05.760 --> 0:08:08.800 of power. Like you can't have a president whose first 0:08:08.880 --> 0:08:11.480 thought when they get a bad set of jobs numbers 0:08:11.520 --> 0:08:14.920 is to shoot the messenger. And it's just it's just 0:08:15.040 --> 0:08:17.200 so pathetic. I mean, I can see the ways in 0:08:17.240 --> 0:08:19.840 which it could be really bad. You know, right, people 0:08:19.840 --> 0:08:23.360 stop trusting these numbers and they install you know whoever 0:08:23.400 --> 0:08:27.200 they install after you know this interim director. 0:08:27.080 --> 0:08:29.360 Mister wonderful, Yeah, mister wonderful. 0:08:29.480 --> 0:08:32.360 But even if they were just a person with perfect credentials, 0:08:32.440 --> 0:08:34.840 people won't trust it. People on the left won't trust it, 0:08:34.880 --> 0:08:36.520 and they and they have good reason that too, because 0:08:36.520 --> 0:08:38.480 why do you get rid of the person if not 0:08:38.640 --> 0:08:41.040 to install somebody who's going to fudge the numbers. And 0:08:41.080 --> 0:08:43.200 I just so I can see the path to it 0:08:43.360 --> 0:08:46.480 being ruinous. But at the moment, I just find myself 0:08:46.520 --> 0:08:50.280 being like, how can anybody think this is okay? How 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:52.520 can you just be like, Yeah, that's my guy up there. 0:08:52.760 --> 0:08:55.120 When he gets bad news, he fires the person who 0:08:55.120 --> 0:08:56.040 gives him bad news. 0:08:56.040 --> 0:08:57.280 It's so pathetic. 0:08:57.600 --> 0:09:02.160 I think you have really explained a fascinating phenomenon as 0:09:02.160 --> 0:09:05.920 we round into a decade of dealing with Donald Trump, 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:10.760 which is it's scary, slash, it's stupid, and I feel like, 0:09:11.120 --> 0:09:14.400 you know, the Venn diagram of like it's stupid, it's scary, 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:17.959 and they are like not quite a circle. So like 0:09:18.200 --> 0:09:22.720 the Rose Garden redo is just stupid, Like who could 0:09:22.840 --> 0:09:27.320 you know? I mean, obviously whatever, there's some historical president 0:09:27.320 --> 0:09:30.880 for the Rose Garden, but it's largely just you know, 0:09:31.520 --> 0:09:36.080 but Bureau of Labor Statistics trying to redistrict your way 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:39.600 into not losing the majority in the House. That kind 0:09:39.679 --> 0:09:42.880 of thing is actually quite scary. 0:09:43.000 --> 0:09:47.640 Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, stupid and scary, that's the mix. 0:09:47.679 --> 0:09:52.160 That's the Trumpian stew at all times. And yeah, it 0:09:52.200 --> 0:09:54.760 can be hard to know just how to calibrate your 0:09:54.760 --> 0:09:59.600 own reactions sometimes. But I'm pretty I'm pretty I'm pretty 0:09:59.640 --> 0:10:00.640 fired up lately. 0:10:01.480 --> 0:10:02.960 Really tell us why? 0:10:03.440 --> 0:10:03.600 Well? 0:10:03.679 --> 0:10:05.880 I the other thing Matt and I in my podcast 0:10:05.920 --> 0:10:08.079 Know your Enemy we were talking about. 0:10:09.000 --> 0:10:12.600 Explain, go on, you go ahead, now go. 0:10:14.160 --> 0:10:17.800 Just the sheer scale of the corruption in this administration 0:10:18.280 --> 0:10:19.920 has really started to get to me because I think 0:10:19.920 --> 0:10:23.320 it's the kind of story that's hard to keep in 0:10:23.360 --> 0:10:26.040 your mind or kind of like it's it's just by 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:28.439 its very nature, would become numb to it and our 0:10:28.520 --> 0:10:32.600 standards change, you know. But Matt was just reading to 0:10:32.640 --> 0:10:34.480 me from, you know, a story from several months ago 0:10:34.559 --> 0:10:37.959 about you know, the crypto people who you know, somebody 0:10:38.000 --> 0:10:41.400 who invested twenty million dollars in Trump's personal crypto coin 0:10:41.440 --> 0:10:44.120 and therefore got to go, you know, to the meme coin. 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:47.280 Meme coin, right, Yeah, I mean we how can we? 0:10:47.600 --> 0:10:50.600 That seems like, you know, an age ago, But it's 0:10:50.640 --> 0:10:55.160 still the case that any anybody, any individual in the world, 0:10:55.200 --> 0:10:58.280 any rich person, whether they're an agent of a foreign 0:10:58.320 --> 0:11:01.679 government government or not can give you know, fifty million 0:11:01.679 --> 0:11:05.200 dollars to Trump in secret for whatever reason. I mean 0:11:05.400 --> 0:11:08.080 these and you know, the fluctuations in the stock market 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:11.880 that allow his cronies to you know, basically insider trade 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:15.120 on the tariff negotiations. Like this kind of stuff would 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:19.319 have been the one big scandal in any other administration 0:11:19.480 --> 0:11:21.200 that we would have talked about for weeks and weeks 0:11:21.200 --> 0:11:24.600 and weeks. But I find myself just being mostly disgusted 0:11:24.640 --> 0:11:27.080 by the fact that this administration is just like one 0:11:27.280 --> 0:11:33.760 giant machine for Mafio, so you know, rackets, basically making 0:11:33.800 --> 0:11:35.520 money for people that he's friends with. 0:11:35.720 --> 0:11:39.560 It feels like you get here by allowing members of 0:11:39.600 --> 0:11:45.760 Congress to continue trading stocks, by not regulating technology, by 0:11:45.880 --> 0:11:49.520 some of the feelings, and you know, I think I 0:11:49.600 --> 0:11:52.000 have old children because I had them when I was 0:11:52.080 --> 0:11:56.280 very young, like a tea smarter, just kidding, not a teenager, 0:11:56.320 --> 0:12:01.240 but pretty young. And they say I'm an neoliberal because 0:12:01.280 --> 0:12:05.240 that is the biggest insult they can think of, except 0:12:05.320 --> 0:12:09.520 my other kid, who's like, you're a communist, which again okay, 0:12:09.920 --> 0:12:14.000 but but there are feelings of neoliberals that got you 0:12:14.559 --> 0:12:18.640 like and you know, the sort of the sort of go. 0:12:18.480 --> 0:12:20.720 Along to get along and the and. 0:12:20.640 --> 0:12:24.040 I also think like trying to sort of emulate Reagan 0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:27.440 in the yeah It's section to thirty. 0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:29.080 Yeah, can we talk about that? 0:12:29.760 --> 0:12:30.319 Yeah? 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:32.520 Well, I mean I think that's true because I have 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:35.520 this thought sometime about like how do we get back 0:12:35.600 --> 0:12:40.559 from this era where huge parts of the voting populace 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:43.760 thinks it's fine for the for the president to basically 0:12:43.760 --> 0:12:47.720 make the presidency a personal project of his own wealth 0:12:48.440 --> 0:12:51.880 creation and his family's own wealth. Like it's it's disturbing 0:12:51.880 --> 0:12:53.800 that he does that. It's even more disturbing that it 0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:55.160 doesn't seem to be a problem. 0:12:55.440 --> 0:12:59.160 Is it the partisanship that has Like is it not 0:12:59.240 --> 0:13:01.040 a part is it? Is it not a problem for 0:13:01.080 --> 0:13:02.640 them because it's their team? 0:13:03.000 --> 0:13:04.079 I mean, is that why? 0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:05.600 I think largely? 0:13:05.640 --> 0:13:07.240 But what I what I what I think about in 0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:09.760 terms of your your question about like how we got here? 0:13:09.920 --> 0:13:13.520 Is that I think in order for if there's ever 0:13:13.840 --> 0:13:17.760 if a left party, say the Democrats, probably the Democrats 0:13:17.920 --> 0:13:21.559 ever becomes a kind of like, you know, the kind 0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:26.120 of cultural hegemonic leader in this country, it would be 0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:31.520 because they've been able to credibly you know, point out 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:35.280 that it's wrong, evil, anti democratic for the Republicans to 0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:37.920 just use the machinery of government to make money for 0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:41.079 themselves at all times. And the reason that that doesn't 0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:43.520 really happen, or it hasn't really happened, or that isn't 0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:45.600 a winning issue for the Democrats, I think, is because 0:13:45.600 --> 0:13:48.800 they aren't credible on that issue, exactly for the reasons 0:13:48.800 --> 0:13:53.480 you're saying, because of insider trading, because of you know, 0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:56.160 just like that that that has the kind of populist, 0:13:56.240 --> 0:13:59.640 anti plutocratic message has been a minority voice in the 0:13:59.640 --> 0:14:02.600 party and in fact, you know, to kind of talk 0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:05.360 out of my own lefty book here, I mean, the 0:14:05.360 --> 0:14:09.000 one person who everybody agrees is credible on this issue, 0:14:09.200 --> 0:14:13.200 Bernie Sanders. Every time he got close to power, the 0:14:13.200 --> 0:14:17.400 Democrats did everything in their power to prevent him from becoming, 0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:18.640 you know, the leader of the party. 0:14:18.800 --> 0:14:20.520 I mean, not for nothing. 0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:23.680 And I hate to be like this kind of prototypical 0:14:23.800 --> 0:14:27.440 millennial leftist and my feelings about this, but Bernie Sanders 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:29.360 is the most popular senator in America. 0:14:29.840 --> 0:14:30.720 And why is that? 0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:33.200 And he's including with independence, including with Republicans. 0:14:33.240 --> 0:14:33.800 Why is that? 0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:37.800 Because he does represent this other side of the coin, 0:14:37.840 --> 0:14:40.960 which is when Bernie Sanders says, I'm disgusted by you know, 0:14:41.480 --> 0:14:43.880 democrats making money from the stock market, just as I 0:14:43.880 --> 0:14:47.240 am about Republicans. I'm disgusted by Donald Trump using you know, 0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:51.360 the office of the presidency to extremely increase his wealth. 0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:54.200 You know, he seems credible, He really seems like he 0:14:54.280 --> 0:14:57.720 hates it, and he's not himself some kind of secret 0:14:57.840 --> 0:14:58.280 rich guy. 0:14:58.440 --> 0:14:59.680 The thing about Bernie. 0:14:59.400 --> 0:15:01.480 Sanders, he's not the only one, but he is the 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:05.920 kind of prototypical figure who represents this credibility in his 0:15:05.960 --> 0:15:09.560 anti plutocratic message is anti oligarchy message, and he's been 0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:13.120 on that message, you know, since twenty sixteen, and it's 0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:17.080 not a coincidence. I think the Democrats haven't been able 0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:21.840 to adopt that message in a way that seems that's winning, 0:15:22.080 --> 0:15:25.240 because they also have tried to marginalize Bernie, you know, 0:15:25.320 --> 0:15:28.080 much less so than they did in Trump's first term. 0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:29.960 He's kind of on side now. 0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:33.000 But I just think in order for there to be 0:15:33.720 --> 0:15:37.000 you know, in order for the Democrats to benefit from 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:41.200 the graft that this administration engages on a regular basis, 0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:44.080 they need more figures who seem like they mean it 0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:47.800 when they you know, as you know, Alex Koburn used 0:15:47.800 --> 0:15:50.960 to say that their hate is pure, right. 0:15:52.280 --> 0:15:59.040 Really, I think important and also true. I wonder though 0:15:59.320 --> 0:16:02.000 it's so so what you're saying is something that I 0:16:02.040 --> 0:16:04.520 actually spend a lot of time basically in my head. 0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:06.680 I spent almost eighty percent. 0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:09.840 Of my day worrying about all of this, right, I 0:16:10.000 --> 0:16:12.560 just like, you know, what's going to happen to d 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:19.600 And it strikes me that Mondani has successfully channeled this 0:16:20.120 --> 0:16:26.400 populism in a way that is both the populism is 0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:30.280 a real thing, and he has gone to voters who 0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:34.000 are not the elites, who are the sort of because 0:16:34.080 --> 0:16:39.160 like the mayoral ship is always decided not in Manhattan, 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:43.960 but really in the Bronx and Brooklyn, which are districts 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:47.400 that are not afful you know, they're a mix, right, 0:16:47.960 --> 0:16:52.040 And so it strikes me that Mondani has managed to 0:16:52.080 --> 0:16:56.200 transmit that to working people, the populist message. 0:16:56.000 --> 0:16:57.640 I think to a significant degree. 0:16:57.760 --> 0:17:00.280 I mean, I also think it's true as much is 0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:04.520 I think it's tendentious the way that the right tries 0:17:04.560 --> 0:17:06.399 to use it against him, that there is a huge 0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:09.520 part of his coalition that is the kind of like 0:17:09.720 --> 0:17:14.719 downwardly mobile, professional middle class, the millennial socialist types. But 0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:17.680 I don't really have the same contempt for those people 0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:20.080 as people on the writer in the center of the 0:17:20.119 --> 0:17:21.680 party do because those are my friends. 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:24.920 But that's not a huge But that's not I mean, 0:17:25.000 --> 0:17:29.240 unfortunately for all of us. That's not a huge group, right, Like, no, no, no, 0:17:29.480 --> 0:17:32.800 A huge group are working people. Like, if you're going 0:17:32.880 --> 0:17:36.359 to win a primary in New York as a mayor, 0:17:36.960 --> 0:17:41.159 you are getting voters that are working people from the 0:17:41.160 --> 0:17:41.960 outer boroughs. 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:44.520 No, absolutely, I mean, I think I think you're totally 0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:50.160 right about Mom Donnie and the great irony contradiction. I think, 0:17:50.400 --> 0:17:54.400 you know, embarrassment for the leadership of the Democratic Party 0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:59.040 is that here's a candidate who ran on affordability, affordability, affordability. 0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:01.280 If you look at his campaign website, there is basically 0:18:01.400 --> 0:18:05.600 no single proposal that is not about lowering the cost 0:18:05.600 --> 0:18:08.200 of living for New Yorkers, except for when people were 0:18:08.200 --> 0:18:11.040 trying to goad him into talking about Israel. 0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:13.399 He only talked about affordability. 0:18:13.640 --> 0:18:16.520 He made that his whole project, and that was exactly 0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:18.560 what the Democrats said was the reason they lost in 0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:21.840 twenty twenty four. Yeah, because Trump credibly convinced people that 0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:23.680 he was going to lower prices he was going to make. 0:18:23.640 --> 0:18:26.879 Because he said that the lower prices, yeah, I said it. 0:18:27.000 --> 0:18:27.200 Yeah. 0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:30.520 And so Mom, Donnie built his whole campaign around exactly 0:18:30.560 --> 0:18:34.560 what the kind of Democratic post mortems said a Democratic 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:37.360 candidate should build their campaign around. And now look at 0:18:37.359 --> 0:18:41.280 who has not endorsed the Democratic primary winner in New 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:45.160 York City. Well, both the senators from New York, who 0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:46.040 one of whom is. 0:18:46.000 --> 0:18:47.520 The head of the Senate. 0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:50.879 As well as this as well as the head of 0:18:51.400 --> 0:18:54.200 the Democratic House Caucus, also from New York. 0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:57.240 I find it. How are they going to I mean, 0:18:57.280 --> 0:18:58.639 we know why they're not doing it. 0:18:58.680 --> 0:19:01.400 I think we can speculate, but I don't know how 0:19:01.440 --> 0:19:03.840 they're going to go around saying, like, the huge problem 0:19:03.880 --> 0:19:05.960 we have is that we can't appeal to working class 0:19:06.000 --> 0:19:09.000 people and we don't have a credible message about affordability. 0:19:09.040 --> 0:19:11.760 And then one when one candidate wins in a landslide 0:19:12.160 --> 0:19:14.800 on that message, they don't endorse him. I mean it's 0:19:14.840 --> 0:19:18.919 absurd or expected. Absurd or expected. 0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:23.800 Jilli Brand really did cover herself in glory when she 0:19:24.000 --> 0:19:27.760 came out and said that man Donnie was anti submitted 0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:31.560 because what did she say he did nine to eleven. 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:32.439 I can't remember. 0:19:32.560 --> 0:19:36.320 She almost I mean, I think she said that he 0:19:37.359 --> 0:19:40.160 had had used the word jahad or something like that. 0:19:40.200 --> 0:19:42.879 She she got mixed up because she she you know, 0:19:43.119 --> 0:19:45.800 she wanted to talk about globalize the Intifada, which of 0:19:45.800 --> 0:19:47.280 course also Mamdani doesn't sing. 0:19:47.400 --> 0:19:50.560 Did not say, but he must disavow it despite not 0:19:50.680 --> 0:19:52.600 saying it, he must. No. 0:19:52.720 --> 0:19:54.240 I mean, it's. 0:19:54.040 --> 0:19:57.040 It's a really bleak it's a really bleak thing. I 0:19:57.119 --> 0:20:00.520 was talking to my podcast produce, Sir Jesse. 0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:02.520 I also have one of those you. 0:20:02.520 --> 0:20:05.160 Know that all podcast producers are named Jesse. 0:20:07.280 --> 0:20:09.679 But he was he was saying something interesting, which is 0:20:09.720 --> 0:20:12.879 that it's the Democrats. You know, maybe the Democrats just 0:20:12.920 --> 0:20:16.000 wish Mamdani was the same candidate without the position he's 0:20:16.040 --> 0:20:18.760 staked out on the genocide in Gaza. 0:20:19.000 --> 0:20:19.199 You know. 0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:23.800 But the thing is, you can't get you can't you 0:20:23.840 --> 0:20:26.719 can't get that guy, that guy who has the credibility 0:20:26.760 --> 0:20:28.960 with young people that he does, that would be able 0:20:29.000 --> 0:20:31.720 to turn out all these disaffected young people if he 0:20:31.760 --> 0:20:36.199 didn't have that message. I mean, the theory of the 0:20:36.240 --> 0:20:40.040 case for Cuomo was that the older people were going 0:20:40.080 --> 0:20:44.800 to be so scandalized by his my in my opinion, 0:20:44.840 --> 0:20:50.439 principled stand about Israel and it's brutal siege, that they 0:20:50.480 --> 0:20:51.680 were going to come out and he was going to 0:20:51.720 --> 0:20:53.600 lose for that reason. But actually he won for that 0:20:53.720 --> 0:20:57.879 reason because he was able to mobilize a group of 0:20:57.920 --> 0:21:01.280 Democratic voters or potential Democrat voters who wouldn't vote for 0:21:01.320 --> 0:21:05.000 any candidate who didn't separate themselves from the party's position 0:21:05.080 --> 0:21:05.919 on that issue. 0:21:06.520 --> 0:21:09.520 And so it's all part of the same package. 0:21:10.000 --> 0:21:14.080