Speaker 1: Hey, this podcast includes an unbleeped swear word that's important
Speaker 1: to a story we tell, so if you've got kids
Speaker 1: or sensitive years around, you might want to save this
Speaker 1: one for later. Olivia Coleman, the impossibly talented British actress,
Speaker 1: worked with an accent coach to prepare to play the
Speaker 1: Queen of England, and the coach explained that to pronounce
Speaker 1: the word yes, as her Majesty would, Olivia should say
Speaker 1: the word that's spelled E A R S, like the
Speaker 1: things on the side of your head. Okay, this might
Speaker 1: work slightly better if you have a British accent, but
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give it a go. Yes, yes, I love that,
Speaker 1: I love it. Okay, here's another language parlor trick may
Speaker 1: be suited better for a new world accent. Say the
Speaker 1: words rise up lights in quick succession, rise of lights,
Speaker 1: rise of lights, and boom you're an Australian sand razor blades.
Speaker 1: I am fascinated by accents and regional dialects, and I
Speaker 1: think a lot of us are. We like knowing how
Speaker 1: other people swear, the kind of slang they fling around
Speaker 1: that the American zucchini is the British Courgette that in India,
Speaker 1: the opposite of postponing something is to prepon it, to
Speaker 1: hear our own familiar language. The substrate of our thoughts
Speaker 1: made new and novel is just a little electric thrill.
Speaker 1: So how exactly our accents forged? Can they change? And
Speaker 1: how might they affect the trajectory of our lives? You
Speaker 1: are listening to deeply human and I am Dessa hereby
Speaker 1: asking the question why do you talk like that? My
Speaker 1: name is John Ball. It rhymes with however you pronounced
Speaker 1: the words l A w or or saw. That takes
Speaker 1: into account than any different regional accents. So if someone
Speaker 1: is from the South, is John Bower, you know? Or
Speaker 1: if it's a New Yorkist, John Blow? All right? So
Speaker 1: it rhymes with law and so. John ba is the
Speaker 1: president of the Linguistic Society of America and a professor
Speaker 1: at Washington University in St. Louis. Lawyers sometimes called John
Speaker 1: to ask for his help in what's called linguistic forensics,
Speaker 1: legal analysis of speech to help shed light on a crime.
Speaker 1: He's been asked to serve as an expert witness for
Speaker 1: more than one trial involving homicide, and, as he puts it,
Speaker 1: a person's accent could be the difference between life and death.
Speaker 1: Let's back up to a pivotal moment in his career.
Speaker 1: In the nineties, he became particularly interested in an insidious
Speaker 1: phenomenon now called linguistic profiling. So linguistic profiling occurs when
Speaker 1: someone calls for goods or services over the telephone and
Speaker 1: site unseen, the person who receives the call denies those
Speaker 1: goods or services based on stereotypes about the person's speech.
Speaker 1: And this interest wasn't entirely academic. John himself was making
Speaker 1: calls looking for a new apartment, and in a few instances,
Speaker 1: when I showed up in person, I was told that
Speaker 1: nothing is available. You know, and I'm African American. A
Speaker 1: lot of people can't tell that from my professional voice.
Speaker 1: And no one said, oh, I am so sorry. Had
Speaker 1: you sounded African American over the telephone, I would have
Speaker 1: never given you an appointment, right, I mean that that's
Speaker 1: a slam dunk lawsuit I win. So they would always
Speaker 1: come up with some other excuse. But you know, I
Speaker 1: was suspicious, So he decided to run a formal experiment. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I can modify my speech. So I grew up in
Speaker 1: l A you understanding the in the city, and in
Speaker 1: Los Angeles I had a lot of Mexican American friends,
Speaker 1: So in the experiment I modified my own speech and used, Hello,
Speaker 1: I'm calling about the apartment you have advertised in the paper.
Speaker 1: And I'd say Hello, I'm calling about the apartment you
Speaker 1: have advertised in the paper, or along coming about the
Speaker 1: apartment you have advertised in the paper. The sentence was
Speaker 1: always the same, and John was always the person calling,
Speaker 1: so the voice was the same. The only difference was
Speaker 1: the accent. As you might guess, the accent made a
Speaker 1: big difference. Landlords were screening out potential renters whose speech
Speaker 1: implied they were from minority communities, and as a general rule,
Speaker 1: the discrimination was worse in affluent neighborhoods. And it's international.
Speaker 1: We've done these experiments in South Africa and Brazil, in France,
Speaker 1: and you know, every place that's an advanced industrialized society
Speaker 1: has its own version of this. Linguistic profiling is also
Speaker 1: bigger than ray. Other research revealed that female voices calling
Speaker 1: to ask about an open executive position in a bank
Speaker 1: were informed that it had already been filled, whereas mail
Speaker 1: callers were more likely to be told it was still available.
Speaker 1: Gay men have also reported being denied goods or services
Speaker 1: because of the way that they speak. Okay, quick self
Speaker 1: interruption here to note that none of us speak in
Speaker 1: exactly the same way at all times. The way that
Speaker 1: you'd voice frustration at having been cut off in traffic
Speaker 1: by some ding dong in a miyata with flame decals
Speaker 1: is not the same way that you'd voice frustration in
Speaker 1: an all staff meeting. What's commonly called code switching, though
Speaker 1: john Ball might more accurately call it style shifting, is
Speaker 1: the way we change our speech based on context or company.
Speaker 1: The ability to identify even really subtle details of dialect
Speaker 1: has made John Ball a powerful expert witness and criminal court.
Speaker 1: In one particular case, a murder case, he was called
Speaker 1: in to analyze the recording of a phone call. If
Speaker 1: you're arrested and you go to jail in the United States,
Speaker 1: any phone call that you make can be recorded by
Speaker 1: law enforcement, and anything you say during that phone call
Speaker 1: can be used against you in a court of law.
Speaker 1: A crucial bit of the prosecution's case centered on the
Speaker 1: content of a call in which the defendant spoke to
Speaker 1: his cousin on a jailhouse phone. Both speakers were young
Speaker 1: black men, and so his cousin thought that it would
Speaker 1: be to his advantage to have a speedy trial, and
Speaker 1: he asked him, He said, well, why don't you do
Speaker 1: a speedy trial. The defendant's answer to this question, according
Speaker 1: to the prosecutor, was a smoking gun. The prosecutor produced
Speaker 1: a transcript that said, why would I want a speedy
Speaker 1: trial when I know I committed this ship And that
Speaker 1: for the prosecutor was the admission of guilt that the
Speaker 1: prosecutor needed in order to pursue the convict sction aggressively.
Speaker 1: But when John heard the recording, he wasn't sure that's
Speaker 1: what the defendants said at all. He heard a totally
Speaker 1: different sentence, which will explain in a moment, because a
Speaker 1: particular vowel caught his ear. Both speakers were using what
Speaker 1: scholars referred to as African American vernacular English, and John
Speaker 1: wondered if the prosecutor just didn't know how to interpret it.
Speaker 1: Maybe the confession wasn't a confession at all. The prosecutor
Speaker 1: likely wasn't very well acquainted with a dialect used by
Speaker 1: the young man on trial. Our accents and patterns of
Speaker 1: speech can vary dramatically, even for people who live very
Speaker 1: near one another, and often those differences are perpetuated on purpose.
Speaker 1: People from Boston don't want to sound like people for
Speaker 1: New York. Right, If you're a Red Sox fan, you
Speaker 1: don't want to sound like a Yankees fan. That is
Speaker 1: Aaron Dinkin. He teaches socio linguistics at San Diego State University,
Speaker 1: and he focuses on variations in American English dialects and
Speaker 1: how they change over time, features of linguistic variation, just
Speaker 1: get all of this subconscious social freight assigned to them,
Speaker 1: not just in terms of regional dialects, but also in
Speaker 1: terms of gender and social class and ethnicity. That word
Speaker 1: dialect describes all the features of a manner of speaking
Speaker 1: a language, our pronunciation, rhythms, melodies, and the particularities of
Speaker 1: our vocabularies. So think of the British lift versus the
Speaker 1: American elevator, or the British adjective hinch versus the American honky,
Speaker 1: the British fly tipper versus the American. Okay, admittedly, I
Speaker 1: just learned that word this morning, and I think it's
Speaker 1: a person who dumps a lot of trash without paying
Speaker 1: for proper disposal. I'm not sure we have those in America. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm sure we have people who do that, but I
Speaker 1: don't think we've given them a proper name, So the
Speaker 1: just call them garbage scoundrels. Anyway, your accent is shaped
Speaker 1: not only by where you're from, but by all sorts
Speaker 1: of super fine tuned markers. Aaron told me about this
Speaker 1: one study by a researcher named Suzanne Wagner that illustrates
Speaker 1: how a single vowel sound can serve as a hook
Speaker 1: on which all sorts of identities are home. So we're
Speaker 1: talking about the long eye vowel in words like fight
Speaker 1: and price and rice. It has been found that statistically
Speaker 1: in Philadelphia, there is a change in the pronunciation of
Speaker 1: that taking place where what was originally I as in
Speaker 1: fight and rice is changing more towards that I as
Speaker 1: in fight and rice. And it has been found that
Speaker 1: again statistically, not like a hard and fast distinction, but
Speaker 1: just you know, on average, men are more likely to
Speaker 1: pronounce the vowel a little bit closer to A as
Speaker 1: in fight and rice, and women are more likely to
Speaker 1: pronounce it a little bit less far along that curve
Speaker 1: and it sounds so brey right, so it got that
Speaker 1: associated with it. But she found that that I pronunciation
Speaker 1: was a little bit more common among the girls who
Speaker 1: were less invested in conforming to conventional femininity and who
Speaker 1: were more invested in like appearing tough, or the ones
Speaker 1: who were more likely to get into fights, which is
Speaker 1: perceived as a masculine thing. And there was an ethnic
Speaker 1: correlation as well, because for the most part, the more
Speaker 1: conventionally feminine girls in this neighborhood in South Philly were
Speaker 1: Italian American and the Irish American girls were more interested
Speaker 1: in seeming tough. Word broy freaking. This one vowel, even
Speaker 1: just a little, really meant something. It meant something about
Speaker 1: Irish roots versus Italian ones. It meant something about the
Speaker 1: relative merit of trying to be fem versus trying to
Speaker 1: be tough, and the girls knew it. I read some
Speaker 1: of their research interviews. It was like two worldviews competing
Speaker 1: for dominance in that little dot above a lower case I.
Speaker 1: The vowel change in South Philadelphia is a subtle one,
Speaker 1: but accents can diverge enough to cause confusion between speakers
Speaker 1: of the same language. If I were watching a movie
Speaker 1: whose character spoken like Scottish brogue or something, I'd probably
Speaker 1: have to turn on the subtitles to track the action.
Speaker 1: Which brings us back to John Baw, the expert witness
Speaker 1: in the murder case and the defendant speaking African American
Speaker 1: Vernacular English on a call with his cousin. To study
Speaker 1: the roots of that dialect is to understand the extreme
Speaker 1: pressures that forged it. The linguistic heritage of slaves in
Speaker 1: the United States is unique in comparison to every other group.
Speaker 1: Slave traders separated slaves whenever they could based on language.
Speaker 1: Beginning in the slave factories on the West coast of Africa,
Speaker 1: people who spoke the same language were forcibly kept apart.
Speaker 1: If you don't share the same language, then you're less
Speaker 1: likely to be able to, you know, foment an insurrection.
Speaker 1: So that explains why no African language survived the Atlantic crossing. Intact,
Speaker 1: We've got lots of communities where Polish is spoken, or
Speaker 1: German is spoken, or Italian is spoken, but there's no
Speaker 1: community where TWEE survived. And then it was illegal to
Speaker 1: teach slaves to read and write African American vernacular English
Speaker 1: can differ from the kind of English that's taught in
Speaker 1: textbooks in many ways, in part because of this interrupted heritage,
Speaker 1: and it's also the product of a lot of really
Speaker 1: varied linguistic influences. If I say i'll be i'll be done,
Speaker 1: told this story a thousand times, Okay, That use of
Speaker 1: be done can be traced back to Scott's Irish dialects
Speaker 1: and the indentured servants that introduced that to the slaves.
Speaker 1: The dialect that's considered standard or correct, or the Queen's English,
Speaker 1: or whatever you want to call it, that kind of
Speaker 1: status is really usually just the product of the fact
Speaker 1: that the classes in power consider their own way of
Speaker 1: speaking as correct. But linguists recognize that, at least from
Speaker 1: a purely theoretical point of view, all languages and dialects
Speaker 1: are equal, but they do vary. And the dialect spoken
Speaker 1: by the defendant on trial for murder was not the
Speaker 1: same as the one spoken by the prosecutor. John took
Speaker 1: the taped call, which included the so called confession, to
Speaker 1: his language lab and he slowed it down to analyze
Speaker 1: every sound, and he began some research with speakers of
Speaker 1: the same dialect. I conducted some experiments with African American
Speaker 1: men similar background, same age, who were listening to the
Speaker 1: recording under headphones, and I had them produce at the
Speaker 1: same pace. You know, I know I committed this ship
Speaker 1: versus I know I ain't committed this ship. Okay, let's
Speaker 1: break that down. That one syllable from the defendant is
Speaker 1: the crucial detail on which John's testimony hinges and in actuality,
Speaker 1: what he said in black dialect was whim a dual
Speaker 1: speedy trial, want to know and committed this ship now
Speaker 1: when I know I ain't committed is a nasalized dip
Speaker 1: thong without the tea of the word ain't. What the
Speaker 1: prosecutor had taken for a confession, John understood is a
Speaker 1: statement of innocence. He took the stand and shared that
Speaker 1: analysis with the jury, and he presented them with an
Speaker 1: image called a voice print, a graphic that showed the
Speaker 1: sound waves of both sentences. You can see the different
Speaker 1: it's more clearly than you can hear the difference. After
Speaker 1: all the evidence was presented, the jurors went to deliberate,
Speaker 1: and the stakes of the verdict were really, really high.
Speaker 1: The crime that was committed was one where the defendant
Speaker 1: was eligible for execution, so essentially the single nasalized vowel
Speaker 1: sound potentially could be the difference between life and death.
Speaker 1: The jury was asked not only for a verdict, but
Speaker 1: to decide whether to impose capital punishment a death sentence
Speaker 1: if they found him guilty. In the end, the jurors
Speaker 1: didn't vote to equit the defendant. They did find him guilty,
Speaker 1: but the jury decided not to invoke the death penalty.
Speaker 1: So it could well be that John's testimony, undermining the
Speaker 1: otherwise damning confession, stopped them from issuing a death sentence.
Speaker 1: Your particular dialect, which can shape your life and reflect
Speaker 1: all sorts of facets of your identity, probably started to
Speaker 1: gel before you learned your first word. Okay, we get
Speaker 1: the idea. You can really only take so much of
Speaker 1: that anyway. Researchers led by Kathleen Vermke at the University
Speaker 1: of Wurtzburg in Germany have found that infants cry and
Speaker 1: the melody of the language they've heard while in the womb,
Speaker 1: so French babies tend to produce cries with the rising
Speaker 1: melody contour, whereas German babies produce more falling ones. Both
Speaker 1: patterns distinguishable from babies crying in Mandarin. But as soon
Speaker 1: as we're old enough to spend time with our peers,
Speaker 1: the parental influence on our language quickly dims in comparison
Speaker 1: to that of our own social groups. Back to socio
Speaker 1: linguist erindiccken to a kindergartener. If there is nobody cooler
Speaker 1: than a first grader, right, So that's who becomes your
Speaker 1: new lingualistic models. But the profits of language teenagers, the
Speaker 1: way that like fifteen, sixteen, seventeen year old speak, that
Speaker 1: is what's in the crystal ball, the nascent trends that
Speaker 1: will shape the speech of the future, and about of
Speaker 1: language innovations are first used by women or girls. So
Speaker 1: what changes are currently underway? What sort of language forecast
Speaker 1: are we in for? Well, in the North American corner
Speaker 1: of the map, there is a front coming in. It's
Speaker 1: been called the California shift, it's been called the third
Speaker 1: dialect shift, it's been called the Canadian shift, the short
Speaker 1: front vowel shift, or the low back Merger shift. So
Speaker 1: I'm talking about the short O vowel as in c
Speaker 1: ot cot and then this other vowel as in c
Speaker 1: A U g h T cont and since I'm from Massachusetts,
Speaker 1: I pronounced those two the same already. I say caught
Speaker 1: and caught, but somebody from New York City, for example,
Speaker 1: might say c ot cot and c a U g
Speaker 1: h T court. Essentially, two distinct vowel sounds are collapsing
Speaker 1: into one single sound, and this is creating a chain
Speaker 1: reaction all over Vowelville. So other vowels are essentially shifting
Speaker 1: to fill in the space left by this convergence. Think
Speaker 1: of how tectonic plates shift and collide and push one
Speaker 1: another around. So the third dialect shift involves the short
Speaker 1: a as in the cat and the hat, moving backwards
Speaker 1: towards like the cat and the hot the e and
Speaker 1: dress and the eye and fit those are morphing too,
Speaker 1: So that's what the third dialect shift is. The short A,
Speaker 1: short E, and short eye vowels all moving kind of
Speaker 1: down and back in the geography of the mouth. So
Speaker 1: maybe when we hit the ten thousandth episode of Deeply
Speaker 1: Human will be calling it a podcast as about human behavior,
Speaker 1: I don't talk about the vowel sounds in English seem
Speaker 1: particularly susceptible to this kind of evolution. This may be
Speaker 1: because English, as compared to other languages, has a bunch
Speaker 1: of vowel sounds somewhere between eleven and sixteen, which means
Speaker 1: that each of them has sort of a narrow lane,
Speaker 1: like if you move your tongue just a little bit
Speaker 1: one way or the other, you wander into the neighboring sound. Spanish,
Speaker 1: by comparison, has only five vowel sounds, and Aaron says
Speaker 1: that some of those have been stable for as long
Speaker 1: as linguists have been able to trace their history. Okay,
Speaker 1: speaking of foreign languages, James, that's the signal, James, my guy,
Speaker 1: play the next clip. My name's Katie Harris, thank you,
Speaker 1: and I run a website called Drew of Languages, which
Speaker 1: is where we help adults learn a foreign language by
Speaker 1: making it far and making the grammar explanations really really simple.
Speaker 1: Katie lives in Italy, and I'm told that her Italian
Speaker 1: accent is pretty think good, like almost native. But it
Speaker 1: was not always. So I've been living in Italy for
Speaker 1: a year, nobody had ever told me about the difference
Speaker 1: between single and double sounds. So in Italian there's this
Speaker 1: difference between how long you hold a sound. So, for example,
Speaker 1: if you say I'm not with two ends, then that
Speaker 1: means year. But if you say are not with one
Speaker 1: end a shorter end, then that means anus. So it
Speaker 1: can be quite dangerous, especially because in Italian, so to
Speaker 1: say your age, it's like Spanish, where you say I
Speaker 1: have thirty five years. So I thought I'd been walking
Speaker 1: around telling people that. Well at the time, you know,
Speaker 1: I had twenty three anuses. It's unfortunate. Yeah, Katie, who
Speaker 1: I will note also speak Spanish and French and some
Speaker 1: German and some Mandarin, had to really focus on getting
Speaker 1: her Italian accent down, whereas it comes more easily to
Speaker 1: very young humans. Babies when they're born are able to fully,
Speaker 1: of course, perceive the difference between any sound in any
Speaker 1: of the world's languages. It's almost as if their brain
Speaker 1: starts to lock on to the first language that they learned,
Speaker 1: so that then it becomes more difficult to hear the
Speaker 1: difference between other sounds and therefore pronounce them as well.
Speaker 1: If you focus on learning the sounds of a language
Speaker 1: in the same way that you focus on learning the words,
Speaker 1: it's quite possible to train yourself to pronounce new sounds.
Speaker 1: You have to be patient because it's a bit like
Speaker 1: going to the gym. You have to change the muscles
Speaker 1: in your mouth, so that takes a little bit of time,
Speaker 1: but it's absolutely possible to learn them. I spoke to
Speaker 1: an accent coach, Jack Alas, who said that part of
Speaker 1: the challenge is just to make people aware of all
Speaker 1: their muscles. So sometimes teachers will ask students to roll
Speaker 1: a blueberry on their tongue just to get a sense
Speaker 1: of what's really going on in there. Being a language
Speaker 1: teacher and learner herself, Katie is dialed into all the
Speaker 1: tiny variations of speech sounds around her. For example, my
Speaker 1: partner speaks wonderful English. He's Italian, but he still has
Speaker 1: an Italian accent. He asked me about the pronunciation of things,
Speaker 1: for example, saying, the Italians when they speak English, tend
Speaker 1: to say because they don't have the sound, and if
Speaker 1: we just sit and I explain how to make it,
Speaker 1: he can make it perfectly. It sounds native. And then
Speaker 1: I asked him why he doesn't actually do it when
Speaker 1: he's speaking English, and he said, it feels silly. I
Speaker 1: feel like I'm trying to pretend to be somebody that
Speaker 1: I'm not. I don't want to pretend to be an
Speaker 1: English person. I'm Italian. I'm happy to sound like an Italian.
Speaker 1: He's speaking English. Okay. By this point you've probably picked
Speaker 1: up on the fact that identity is a big theme here. So,
Speaker 1: for example, if I think about chefs who might have
Speaker 1: been living in the country for twenty thirty years, say
Speaker 1: an Italian chef living in the US. For some reason,
Speaker 1: I've always noticed that chefs always really tend to keep
Speaker 1: their accents, even if they've been living there for decades.
Speaker 1: I think it's probably because it's useful to them. They
Speaker 1: have no reason to adopt a new local identity, because
Speaker 1: the stronger their accent is, the more that people can
Speaker 1: associate them with where they come from. So you know,
Speaker 1: I personally would trust a pizza made by an Italian
Speaker 1: chef that has a stronger Italian accent than they had
Speaker 1: an American accent. Why you talk the way you do,
Speaker 1: there's a product of a lifetime of layered factors. The
Speaker 1: melodies of speech that make their way to you while
Speaker 1: you're still an incubation, the words and phrases learned from
Speaker 1: your parents, the rough and tumbled talk of the first
Speaker 1: greater jet set, and then in humorable, fine layers of
Speaker 1: identity informed by the slang at the girl's table, in
Speaker 1: the lunch room, the talk in the brake room, maybe
Speaker 1: the language of the Sunday sermon. You're like a walking
Speaker 1: archaeological dig of language, and of course they are your
Speaker 1: own aspirations to speak like the person you'd like to be.
Speaker 1: My job as a scientist is to try to have
Speaker 1: people appreciate and respect that someone who's linguistic background is
Speaker 1: substantially different from your own is equally worthy of your respect,
Speaker 1: your kindness, and the assumption that they may be just
Speaker 1: as intelligent and just as capable as those people that
Speaker 1: you prefer in your own linguistic comfort zone. Snaps Wow,
Speaker 1: landed Man, Well, let me give you your shoutout girlfriend,
Speaker 1: because you are good. What kind of maniacal, self celebratory
Speaker 1: podcast host would include that complimentary bit of audio. If
Speaker 1: you guessed this guy, yes you are correct, Watch out Olivia. Also,
Speaker 1: let me share a quote from author Amy Chua, but
Speaker 1: struck a chord with me. Do you know what a
Speaker 1: foreign accent is? It's a sign of bravery. Okay, let
Speaker 1: the record show what a highbrow podcast you are listening to,
Speaker 1: and that we got almost all the way to the
Speaker 1: end of this thing before even mentioning the fact that
Speaker 1: some accents are just really sexy, like unwholesomely charged with
Speaker 1: pure animal Hang on, we'll come back to that in
Speaker 1: a second. Got into the credits first. Deeply Human is
Speaker 1: a BBC World Service and American Public Media co production
Speaker 1: with I Heart Media, and it's hosted by Tessa. Find
Speaker 1: her online on Instagram, Darling on Twitter. My French friend
Speaker 1: who lives in Milatin. When she was in the States
Speaker 1: for a while, she found the perfect pickup line was
Speaker 1: to say, I'm French, but they live in Milan. Is
Speaker 1: she single? Yes? But she wasn't when she was in
Speaker 1: the States because it was so easy. Everyone would melt
Speaker 1: as soon as she said it. If you play music
Speaker 1: for a nine month old baby, they'll start to squirm
Speaker 1: and bop around and dance in whatever manner is possible
Speaker 1: for somebody who can't yet stand unsupported in whose arms
Speaker 1: are barely long enough to reach over their own heads.
Speaker 1: Join me Tessa for the next Deeply Human to find
Speaker 1: out why our bodies respond to rhythm and if you
Speaker 1: dig the podcast and you've got an extra forty five seconds,
Speaker 1: rate us and drop us a review. I read them all,
Speaker 1: and more than once I have referenced to review while
Speaker 1: chatting with the team to craft a new episode. Thanks
Speaker 1: per usual for listening, and we'll see you. Next question.