1 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: Works dot Com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb. I'm Julie Douglas. Julie, do 4 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:20,799 Speaker 1: you remember studying writing papers all that jazz back in 5 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: high school and college? Now I'm doing jazz hands, Yes, 6 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 1: I do remember. I recall frenzy um activity happening at 7 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 1: the eleventh hour. Yeah. I remember staying up like all 8 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:37,919 Speaker 1: night to write things. In college. I remember getting up 9 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 1: early to do homework, then being late as I ran 10 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:44,919 Speaker 1: off the class, and then finishing the homework in class, 11 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 1: or skipping lunch to do a homework assignment do that afternoon. 12 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 1: Everything was always a last minute, right, And this is 13 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: called the student syndrome, right, Yes, yeah, and it's really common. 14 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 1: I'm sure everyone at some point, particularly in in in 15 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 1: their student years, experienced this where you were just putting 16 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: everything off because you were making a deal with yourself saying, oh, yeah, 17 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 1: i'll do it in a couple of days, I'll do 18 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 1: it a couple of hours and then bam. Because there's 19 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 1: always something more entertaining or worthwhile to do in the 20 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:16,839 Speaker 1: present than later on. And I'm sure that that would 21 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 1: have been something like other studies rather than beer consumption 22 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 1: or well, well I did not consume libations in college 23 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 1: for the most part. But what would you have occupied 24 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:31,680 Speaker 1: have been? Stuff like, um, you know, team Fortress or 25 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 1: a quake or something I guess, you know, other at 26 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:36,679 Speaker 1: leisure activities. I wasn't exactly living it out most of 27 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:39,039 Speaker 1: my college career. I have to say, all right, well, 28 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 1: I don't have any comment on that for myself. Okay, well, 29 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 1: but procrastination, it is a huge deal. It is perhaps 30 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 1: an inseparable part of who we are. Everyone does it, 31 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 1: even the even the go getters out there. There's something 32 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 1: on that to do list. It's not getting um do attention, 33 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: and it all boils down to procrastination. We've been trying 34 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 1: to fight this for ages. We still don't have it 35 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 1: completely kicked or anywhere close to it. So what exactly 36 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 1: is it? We're going to discuss what procrastination is, why 37 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 1: we do it, some of the ideas out there about 38 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:18,800 Speaker 1: how we might defeat it, and uh and and whether 39 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 1: that's really an achievable goal. Yeah, can you really vanquish it? Yeah? 40 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: Um and just saying no, you ever actually get around 41 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 1: to vanquishing it? Well, yeah, you can put a plan together, 42 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 1: you can clean the plan just at all. You can 43 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 1: have a board meeting about it. You can put together 44 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 1: committee to study procrastination and put together ten like ten 45 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 1: steps on best us standards and practices towards defeating it. 46 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 1: Then you can blog about those ten steps. Yes yeah, um, 47 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:50,639 Speaker 1: but like, this is not a modern phenomenon, right, Sure, 48 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 1: there's been an uptick, and for reasons we'll talk about later. 49 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:56,399 Speaker 1: But just in case you're wondering it, it actually came 50 00:02:56,480 --> 00:03:02,359 Speaker 1: into our vernacular and owned fifteen hundred and thirty two, 51 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:04,640 Speaker 1: I believe the first instance of the use of the 52 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 1: word procrastinate. Yeah, the actual like English word procrastinate. Ye. 53 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:13,399 Speaker 1: And there's a book from eighteen fifty two called Thoughtless 54 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:17,800 Speaker 1: Little Fanny, The Unhappy Results of Procrastination. So this was 55 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 1: on people's minds thoughtless little fanny, thoughtless little fanny, Like, 56 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 1: don't have such a thoughtless little fanny? Like? Is that 57 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 1: never mind? No, we're not talking about fannies like fanny, 58 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:30,919 Speaker 1: because it's like, get off your fannie and do something right. Well, 59 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 1: maybe that's where some of that came from. Who is well, uh, 60 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 1: even though the word is relatively new in terms of 61 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 1: human history. Uh. The idea is, of course has been 62 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 1: around for as long as we've had stuff to put 63 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 1: off doing. I mean it's uh, if you look back 64 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 1: in the Mahabarada, the ancient Indian epic, which we've discussed 65 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 1: a little in the past when we were talking about 66 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 1: ancient technology and weapons. Um, and I'm I've been really 67 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 1: into it because I just forced my wife to set 68 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 1: through several hours of the Peter Brook Channel four film 69 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 1: that up to he did. Peterborok did like a nine 70 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 1: hour version of the Mahaparata and then they cut it 71 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 1: down to like six hours or five hours for TV, 72 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 1: and then they cut that down to three hours for 73 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 1: the DVD. And it's really cool, but my wife had 74 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 1: suffered through it because it is a little slow. Yes, 75 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 1: but there's a part in it where the character of 76 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:24,599 Speaker 1: Bishma is talking to King yudish Tura and he's taking 77 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 1: him about these fish right that they're they're three fish 78 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 1: in the water and there's a fisherman coming. Um. You know, 79 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:33,600 Speaker 1: this is like the apocalypse for these fish. And one 80 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 1: of the fish in the water says, all right, I'm 81 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 1: a fish of action. Let's do this. This let's do this. 82 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: Let's uh, let's let's hop to it. Let's get to 83 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 1: some water where we're not going to be threatened by 84 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:45,239 Speaker 1: this fisherman. And then there's another fish, and this fish 85 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 1: is more of a thoughtful planner, and the fish says, look, 86 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:49,400 Speaker 1: I'm gonna think this over, I'm gonna i'm gonna do 87 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 1: a little research, I'm gonna crunch some numbers, and then 88 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:55,919 Speaker 1: when the time for action comes, I will act and 89 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 1: I will be prepared to act. And uh, and that's good. 90 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:00,320 Speaker 1: Both of these fish are great. But then there's a 91 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:02,600 Speaker 1: third fish, and that third fish is just like, ma, 92 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 1: you know, I'm not I'm not gonna worry. Well, is 93 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:09,039 Speaker 1: that fish just completely hamstrung by the idea and and 94 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 1: therefore becomes a slacker fish? Um, yeah, kind of a 95 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 1: slacker fish, just like doesn't that is it gonna put 96 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 1: the is it gonna act now? Isn't gonna put the putar? 97 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 1: Far with the effort to act now? Is instead going 98 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:22,920 Speaker 1: to just be like, well, what the fisherman does tomorrow 99 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 1: is completely out of my mind, so Bishmuth says. Thus 100 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 1: everyone meets with destruction, like the procrastinating fish, who from 101 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:34,039 Speaker 1: want of intelligence cannot divine the hour of danger. That 102 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 1: man again, who, regarding himself clever, does not seek his 103 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 1: own good improper time, incurs great danger, like the Sekula 104 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 1: who had presence of mind. So it's, uh, it's it's 105 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 1: really interesting ancient texts they're already talking about, you know, 106 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:50,240 Speaker 1: the wisdom behind tackling procrastination. You don't have to act 107 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 1: right away, you know, you don't have to be the 108 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:54,600 Speaker 1: person it's like, oh, here's a here's a challenge. I'm 109 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:56,479 Speaker 1: on it. At least be the be the fish that 110 00:05:56,600 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 1: is that is planning things out and as well. Discussing this, 111 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:04,280 Speaker 1: you tend to see like two types of procrastination with anybody. 112 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:07,039 Speaker 1: We're either putting off something that we really do not 113 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 1: want to do, like taking out the garbage roundloading the dishwasher, 114 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 1: or doing our taxes something like that. Or we're putting 115 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 1: off something that we really want to do, or we 116 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 1: think we really want to do, or we feel like 117 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 1: we should want to do. The stakes are higher in 118 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 1: that instance, right, and the expectations and probably the fear 119 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 1: surrounding it. Right if you look in in the In Islam, 120 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:34,040 Speaker 1: the Arabic world word for procrastination toss with primarily concerns 121 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 1: the postponement of good deeds. So there's more of an 122 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 1: emphasis in Arabic on procrastination as the putting off of say, uh, 123 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 1: you know, doing this great endeavor that you're planning, you know, 124 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 1: I know, writing that book you always wanted to ride, 125 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:50,039 Speaker 1: or or finally donating to charity or you know, or 126 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 1: whatever you're particular. There's more of a lighting of the 127 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 1: fire under the duff to get things done. Yeah, and 128 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 1: then hitting on Buddhism, here's a quote from Surya Dass, 129 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:01,840 Speaker 1: an American in a lama in the Tibetan Buddhist tradition, 130 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 1: and he says, we have to stop procrastinating, pretending that 131 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:07,360 Speaker 1: we have forever to do what we want to do 132 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 1: and be what we long to be. So that's it. 133 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 1: He dies in this whole idea that a lot of 134 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 1: procrastination is sort of on some level feeling are like 135 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 1: we're gonna live forever and we have indefinite time to 136 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 1: achieve these various goals, obligations, dreams, uh, etcetera. C. S. Lewis, 137 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 1: of course, the Christian writer and sci fi fantasy fictioner, 138 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 1: says there is no other day all days are present. 139 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 1: Now this moment contains all moments. I really I enjoyed 140 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 1: sort of looking looking around and seeing what different people 141 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 1: have to say about it. So, so we've been thinking 142 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 1: about it for a long time. There's a lot of 143 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 1: philosophy and uh and religion tied up in actually stirring 144 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 1: people to action and stirring yourself to action. Yeah, and 145 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 1: let's talk about some statistics behind this too, like what's 146 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:56,560 Speaker 1: going on here? There is a five year study that 147 00:07:56,840 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 1: actually this is the the irony here. It was meant 148 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 1: to be a five years study, but it took ten 149 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 1: years to complete. Not making this up. Oh yeah, journalists 150 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 1: love that stuff, by University of Calgary professor Pierce Steele. 151 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 1: It's a thirty page study and it's actually pretty exhaustive. 152 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 1: But it concluded, among other things, that only about five 153 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: percent of the American public thought of themselves as chronic procrastinators. 154 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 1: But now today it's about so the number has gone 155 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 1: up quite a bit significantly. Yeah, and the culpriate just 156 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 1: just guess what the culprit is. But the reason why 157 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:33,960 Speaker 1: this may have gone up, Oh, let's see the last 158 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:39,679 Speaker 1: twenty five years, I'm guessing the Internet. Yeah, it's lovely distractions, 159 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 1: That is exactly it. Pierce Steel also attributes to the 160 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 1: mind uh mind sweeper game. I really I never figured 161 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:48,440 Speaker 1: out how to play mine. I know, I thought, well, 162 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 1: he had kept like and all the things that I 163 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 1: read there were all these quotes of that mind sweeper 164 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 1: game just taken over the nation. Yeah, I think perhaps 165 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 1: for him, I'm going to guess that. I don't know, 166 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 1: but it's really interesting because it's a hard thing to measure. 167 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 1: And in fact, Slate dot com had a great article 168 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 1: called Procrastinators Without Borders, and what they were saying essentially is, okay, 169 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:16,080 Speaker 1: here is a study that is right for research. You know, 170 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 1: how do people procrastinate in other cultures? Because you know, 171 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 1: you you can look at Americans and you can say, okay, 172 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 1: there's a high incidence of self reporting of procrastinating. But 173 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:32,679 Speaker 1: perhaps that's because we're really into self disclosure, right Americans are. 174 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:35,080 Speaker 1: And you can say there's a high incidence in Japan. 175 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:38,319 Speaker 1: But you could say, well, that's also because uh, if 176 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 1: someone were to say they were procrastinating, that's sort of 177 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:46,560 Speaker 1: a cultural norm of self criticizing oneself, and so it 178 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 1: would make sense that they would say, oh, yes, I'm 179 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:51,719 Speaker 1: a procrastinator and this is part of my problem. Um, 180 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 1: So there's there's sort of hard to measure in other cultures, 181 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:58,840 Speaker 1: and also how how is it perceived there? Right, because 182 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: we know that a color is a color in one 183 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 1: culture and the color in a different culture. Right, It's 184 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:08,320 Speaker 1: all how we sort of uh construct this reality, right 185 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 1: of how we perceive things. And of course there's also 186 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:14,319 Speaker 1: something to be said about how different different cultures perceived 187 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:18,080 Speaker 1: time slightly differently, right, Um. And then this comes down 188 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:22,960 Speaker 1: to basically clock time versus event time. Yes, and there's 189 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 1: nature time to write, right, yeah, nature time as well, which, 190 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 1: of course it's just it's it's light out, it's start out, 191 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:31,080 Speaker 1: the sun's going coming up, the sun is going down. 192 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 1: Looks like when when are you planning to eat dinner? 193 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 1: Are you planning to eat dinner at seven o'clock sharp? 194 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: Are you planning to eat dinner when everyone returns to 195 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 1: the house, or are you planning to eat dinner when 196 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:46,600 Speaker 1: the sun comes down? There's not all necessarily the same time, right, 197 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:49,560 Speaker 1: and in in different cultures that could be wildly different 198 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 1: times that they actually occur. Robert Levine is a social 199 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:54,679 Speaker 1: psychologist and the author of a geography time, and he 200 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 1: maps the different perceptions of time between urban and rural settings, 201 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 1: corporate culture, as ethnic groups, and academic disciplines, and he 202 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 1: puts forth the idea of a multi temporality. So he 203 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:10,600 Speaker 1: it's sort of this idealistic like, you know, possibly we 204 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 1: could start to move between nature time, event time, and 205 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 1: clock time, depending on the situation. But what you'll see 206 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:19,840 Speaker 1: is that in most Western cultures we work on clock 207 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 1: time monochronic time, right, monocron nicktime rather, and that's a 208 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:27,200 Speaker 1: linear timeline. It moves us from one task to another, 209 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 1: where if you're in um event time in another culture, 210 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:35,560 Speaker 1: then let's say that you make a date to study 211 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:38,560 Speaker 1: with someone, and you make the date for seven o'clock. 212 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:41,720 Speaker 1: In an event time, you wouldn't actually be expected to 213 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 1: show up at seven o'clock because what might happen between 214 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 1: you showing up for that time and when you actually 215 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 1: do is that a friend could come over and want 216 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 1: to listen to music. And so it's much more like, Okay, well, 217 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:57,199 Speaker 1: I'm just going to go with it now, and it's 218 00:11:57,280 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 1: less of a concern about the future. It's more like 219 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 1: what's going on right now. So it's like Davies yes, 220 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 1: it's very much so like this Um and Levine found 221 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 1: that the quicker we speak, walk, eat, and drive UM, 222 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:15,960 Speaker 1: the more of an economic um boom we get. Right there, 223 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 1: So the communities that are much more structured around clock 224 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 1: time tend to be ones that and this is no surprise, 225 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:28,920 Speaker 1: have bigger economies, um, more luxuries, higher incomes, and so 226 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:31,199 Speaker 1: on and so forth. And I thought this was interesting. 227 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:33,560 Speaker 1: This was interesting that the top five countries using the 228 00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 1: index of pace of life as he calls it, or 229 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 1: time consciousness from fastest to slowest are Switzerland, Ireland, Germany, Japan, 230 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:44,080 Speaker 1: and Italy. And the five slowest or at least time 231 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:50,439 Speaker 1: conscious countries are Syria, El Salvador, Brazil, Indonesia, and the Mexico. Yeah, 232 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 1: so I mean, here you go. Here's a good example 233 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:55,960 Speaker 1: of how time and this perception of whether or not 234 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 1: you're procrastinating could be wildly different from one culture to another. Well, 235 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 1: having been too in Mexico and having been to Germany, 236 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 1: I can say that there does a drastic difference in 237 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 1: how time is perceived and how time passes in those 238 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:10,960 Speaker 1: two countries. Well, as I know that Germany is is 239 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:14,200 Speaker 1: famous for its transportation, right and for for always being 240 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:17,440 Speaker 1: on time, um and adhering to the clock time. Well, 241 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:19,440 Speaker 1: I have, I have. I mean, I'm I'm not the 242 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 1: most you know, buckled down of individuals, but but I 243 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 1: do have some German blood in me. So there there 244 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 1: are times where I'm like, where is someone to enforce 245 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:30,320 Speaker 1: the rules and to put straight limits and beginnings on 246 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 1: this thing? You know? And then you reach for a 247 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 1: strudal Yeah, and then I reach for a strudle. You know. 248 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 1: It's like why why are people coming in late and 249 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 1: leaving early for yoga class? This should not be permitted. 250 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:41,839 Speaker 1: I've got Dutch on my side, So I just wear 251 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:44,760 Speaker 1: wooden shoes. Okay, that's That's gotta make down dog different 252 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:48,679 Speaker 1: really difficult though it does, it does. It's a challenge. Um. 253 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 1: But so the question then sort of becomes like, how 254 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 1: how do we become motivated in these different atmospheres, um, 255 00:13:56,240 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 1: of different environments. And it's interesting to note that Lady 256 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:04,200 Speaker 1: Gaga actually enters this equation, yes, and doesn't she always 257 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 1: I guess she does. She's always interjecting herself in these 258 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 1: philosophical discussions, right, um, And we're there was we're of 259 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 1: course referring to m psychology today blog post or or 260 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:18,680 Speaker 1: article I think blog post slash article um that was 261 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 1: talking about basically pitting Lady Gaga against the Secret because 262 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 1: the lady guy got had this thing about where she 263 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 1: could see the awards, and she doesn't put them on 264 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 1: the wall. She like throws them in the closet or something. Right, 265 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:30,360 Speaker 1: she sort of bragged, well, I don't know if you 266 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 1: say bragg but her advice to an up and comer was, Hey, 267 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 1: don't don't get all excited about whatever awards you've been given. 268 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 1: I just pretend like they don't exist anymore. Taken down 269 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 1: and I take it down to the studs, and then 270 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 1: I have to get those awards again. Yes, and uh yeah, 271 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 1: And the name of this article was the motivatical wisdom 272 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 1: of Lady Gaga versus the Secret. And we'll have to 273 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 1: throw a link in the blog post we do with this, 274 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: but it concerns Sigmund Freud's idea of the irrational lobido, 275 00:14:57,240 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 1: the part of our psyche that lives for immediate pleasure, 276 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 1: all right, which actually ties into a lot of a 277 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 1: lot of our discussions here about procrastination, because it's about, 278 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 1: you know, it's all about like this present us and 279 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:13,520 Speaker 1: then dealing with a future us that yeah, feed it 280 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 1: and give its its instant gratification. Right, so um two. 281 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 1: In order to accomplish this immediate pleasure, the libido uses 282 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:26,840 Speaker 1: what Freud termed a primary process, where it produces a 283 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:30,600 Speaker 1: memory image of an object needed for gratification in order 284 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 1: to reduce the frustration of not having been gratified yet. 285 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 1: So basically this would be like an example of this 286 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 1: would be like if someone was like, man, I sure, 287 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 1: I sure, wish I was a rock star. That looks great, 288 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 1: and then you imagine yourself as a rock star and 289 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 1: you just sort of set there and you're you know, 290 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 1: your high school class or your or behind the wheel, 291 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 1: and you sort of stay up, you're off into the 292 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 1: distance and see yourself as a rock star, and in 293 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 1: doing that, scratch that itch and then the itches scratched 294 00:15:57,640 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 1: and you're like, okay, I'm good. I'm good. Now back 295 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 1: to what I is doing. Okay, So this is the 296 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 1: fantasy part of it, right, And this is this is 297 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 1: how it relates to the secret. Yeah, we imagine everything 298 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 1: from revenge to accomplishment, you know, whatever it may be, 299 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 1: without doing anything, and we received the pleasure from the 300 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 1: image alone, and then of course the secret. On the 301 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 1: other hand, can we say what the secret is? Can 302 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 1: we be sued for revealing the secret? I don't think 303 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 1: it's a secret anymore. Yeah, I mean, has that red 304 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 1: stamp on the it's been on Oprah and and all 305 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 1: sorts of stuff. I'm sure a lot of people are 306 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 1: are familiar with the concept at least right sort of 307 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 1: this law of attraction. It's like you imagine it and 308 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 1: make it real. You put out your your wish for 309 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:38,840 Speaker 1: this thing, and then you put that out into the 310 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:42,440 Speaker 1: universe and that that I know I'm probably massacring this, 311 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:44,480 Speaker 1: but I will admit that I have not read this book. 312 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 1: So this is my piecemeal understanding of it. Is that 313 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 1: once you put out that wish, that energy, then that 314 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 1: is going to attract uh, your wish fulfillment so that 315 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 1: it comes to you whatever it is. I have. I 316 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 1: have read other things that to make similar arguments for 317 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 1: this idea of manifesting what you want in your life. 318 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:05,879 Speaker 1: And some of these even take a sort of quasi 319 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:09,240 Speaker 1: quantum physics approach by you know, sort of like looking 320 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:12,400 Speaker 1: at the idea that all possible realities exist somewhere. So 321 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:15,879 Speaker 1: if you were to focus, you could force yourself into 322 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:19,160 Speaker 1: the physicals, into into the alternate realities where the desired 323 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 1: events have transpired. So there's a reality where I'm a 324 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:27,200 Speaker 1: rock star. There's a reality where I clean up after 325 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 1: rock stars, and all I need to do is focus 326 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:35,160 Speaker 1: hard enough, and I can move my current self toward 327 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 1: more towards the rock star persona than the rock star 328 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:41,400 Speaker 1: cleaner upper. Okay, So there's a problem with this though, 329 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:44,159 Speaker 1: if you're actually motivated to fulfill it for yourself, right, 330 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:48,120 Speaker 1: And that's where Lady Gaga comes in, because she's relying 331 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:52,639 Speaker 1: on an expectation that she has that's a framework based 332 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 1: on her past experiences. So she already knows what it 333 00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:00,199 Speaker 1: takes to get to this goal and fulfill it, right, 334 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:04,920 Speaker 1: and only that she's created a lack right because mentally 335 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:12,199 Speaker 1: she has removed those awards, those accolades from from her um, 336 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:16,000 Speaker 1: from from becoming a symbol that is already fulfilling. So 337 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:18,840 Speaker 1: she's her desire. I think it's like like, man, I 338 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:21,600 Speaker 1: wish I was famous and successful, and then she looks 339 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:23,640 Speaker 1: up at the awards and she goes, there, I am, 340 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: and then like then they accomplished, and so she takes 341 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:28,280 Speaker 1: them off, and she's like, oh, that was accomplished and 342 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 1: famous and all that. And then she looks up in 343 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:34,480 Speaker 1: the walls empty and she makes a little frowny face. Nothingness, right, 344 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:38,200 Speaker 1: and then she starts to levitate like a zen Buddhist. Um. 345 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 1: I made that part of so over the last decade 346 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 1: is this article lays out there was a study at 347 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:48,400 Speaker 1: a New York university and they took they used three 348 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:51,400 Speaker 1: different groups to study which of these approaches is more successful. 349 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:53,720 Speaker 1: Here's a fantasy group that essentially falls the path of 350 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:56,440 Speaker 1: the secret here and they imagine what they have already 351 00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:59,639 Speaker 1: desired having come true, all right. And then there's a 352 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 1: control group that's the baseline people just do, left to 353 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:06,200 Speaker 1: their own devices. And then there is a mental contrasting group, 354 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:08,560 Speaker 1: and this is uh, this is like the Lady Gaga 355 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:12,239 Speaker 1: model where they mentally contrast by fantasizing about what they 356 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:15,400 Speaker 1: want and then immediately afterwards they compare where they are 357 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 1: now with where they want to be. So this would 358 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 1: be the whole like, you know, fantasizing about being a 359 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 1: rock star and be like, oh, that's that's kind of 360 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:24,159 Speaker 1: cool in my head, and then you you, you know, 361 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 1: you suddenly you're back in reality and you're like, whoa, 362 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:29,159 Speaker 1: I'm not a rock star at all, and then perhaps 363 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:32,920 Speaker 1: imagining the steps that would take you to that desired reality. 364 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:36,120 Speaker 1: So anyway, the results show that the Lady Gaga styled 365 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:40,720 Speaker 1: mental contrasting always does a better job than than pure fantasy. 366 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 1: And so the suggestion here is that the secret mode 367 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:47,199 Speaker 1: is uh is kind of flawed. I just love the 368 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:50,880 Speaker 1: fact that that someone took Lady Gaga's quote about taking 369 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 1: our platinum records down and and it's something like she 370 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 1: said something like a pretenda, haven't sold a damn one 371 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:58,360 Speaker 1: and I've got to do it all again. Like they 372 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:00,439 Speaker 1: took that quote and then they app aied it to 373 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:04,240 Speaker 1: a study along with the Secret this book the Secret, 374 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 1: and bore this out. I think that's pretty great. Yeah, well, 375 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 1: I mean that's how you do it. You get this, 376 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 1: You take the science, you throw Lady Gaga or a 377 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 1: really strong verb in the headline, and you've got yourself 378 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:18,479 Speaker 1: the science news story. He's got legs. Yeah. Um. In 379 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:20,479 Speaker 1: a minute right here after the break, we're going to 380 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:23,359 Speaker 1: talk about whether or not there's a unifying theory of 381 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 1: procrastination of why we do it, and we're going to 382 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:27,919 Speaker 1: talk about how you can overcome your procrastinate and ways. 383 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 1: This podcast is brought to you by Intel, the sponsors 384 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 1: of Tomorrow and the Discovery Channel. At Intel, we believe 385 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:41,200 Speaker 1: curiosity is the spark which drives innovation. Join us at 386 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:44,920 Speaker 1: curiosity dot com and explore the answers to life's questions. 387 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 1: All right, and we're back. Are you ready to listen 388 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:50,639 Speaker 1: to the rest of this podcast or have you been 389 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 1: putting it off? No? No, you have to finish this podcast. 390 00:20:57,560 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 1: We're halfway through. It's like that I'm gonna go grab 391 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 1: some water. It's like that quote from a beeth where 392 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 1: he's wading through the blood and he's like to to 393 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 1: turn back. Now, I'd have to wage just through just 394 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:07,200 Speaker 1: as much blood to see it all the way through. 395 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:08,840 Speaker 1: So that's where we are. We've got to wait through 396 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 1: the rest of the blood. Wow, you're dark man. Yeah, uh, 397 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:16,640 Speaker 1: I like it. So So yeah, we're talking about procrastination 398 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 1: and is there a unified theory because we we we 399 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 1: discussed that. We discussed humor in a recent podcast, and 400 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 1: we talked about a unified theory of humor where they say, 401 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,880 Speaker 1: what is humor? Well, here you go, cultivate it out 402 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:33,919 Speaker 1: in like a few different steps complete explanation. Can we 403 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 1: do that with procrastination in theory? We can? Right, okay? 404 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 1: And so the temporal motivation theory posits that motivation can 405 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:46,800 Speaker 1: be understood by the effects of expectancy and value, which 406 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 1: could be weakened by delay, with differences for rewards and losses. 407 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:53,679 Speaker 1: So what we're talking about here is motivation equals expectation 408 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:58,399 Speaker 1: times value over impulsiveness times delay. So if you plug 409 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:00,920 Speaker 1: in the conditions of a scenario and the denominator that 410 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:04,199 Speaker 1: that impulse in the face of gratification, right, the what 411 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:08,119 Speaker 1: would be the underneath expectation of value? If that is 412 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 1: weaker than the proposition of a good chance of a 413 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:14,400 Speaker 1: successful outcome, then you are less likely to procrastinate, which 414 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:16,520 Speaker 1: sort of feels like a dumb moment, you know, like, 415 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:19,920 Speaker 1: oh yeah, okay, of course, because you would think, right 416 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 1: that if it was a good chance that you were 417 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 1: going to do great at this task, um, and you 418 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 1: know you you didn't have really a good reason to 419 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:33,639 Speaker 1: put it off, that you would get it done. So 420 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 1: that's where I kind of that's the point where I say, well, 421 00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:39,640 Speaker 1: that makes sense, But we're crazy humans and we're sort 422 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 1: of flawed in our logic, and sometimes we do things 423 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 1: to to really mess ourselves up, you know, we self 424 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 1: deceive or we make something bigger than it is, and 425 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:51,480 Speaker 1: so we don't accomplish something because we even though we're 426 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:54,159 Speaker 1: excited about it. Right, That's that's the problem I have 427 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:57,159 Speaker 1: with T M. T Okay. But but to break it 428 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,480 Speaker 1: down again, it's basically we're more likely to do the 429 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 1: things that we expect succeed at, and we typically discount 430 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,480 Speaker 1: future rewards in favor of the media rewards, which comes 431 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:10,280 Speaker 1: down again too. I can have fun now versus acing 432 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 1: that test tomorrow, or I can not have fun now, 433 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 1: and as the test tomorrow, which is more real, I'm 434 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:19,840 Speaker 1: not having fun now and I want the fun, right Yeah. 435 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:24,959 Speaker 1: And this instantly brings to mind something called Ulysses packed, 436 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 1: which is a great to refresh. Of course, it's the 437 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:34,040 Speaker 1: myth of Ulysses. You know, um who's uh uh you know, 438 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 1: he's he's he's on the ship. He's sailing right, and 439 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 1: he knows the sirens are coming up, the beautiful naked 440 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:42,439 Speaker 1: ladies that crawl out of the singing to him, and 441 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:45,320 Speaker 1: they will lure everyone to their deaths. They will sing 442 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,840 Speaker 1: so beautifully and they will be so absolutely naked that 443 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 1: all the men on the ship will climb into the 444 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 1: water and drown. So Ulysses is a he's a pretty 445 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:56,719 Speaker 1: smart cat. So he's like, this is what you're gonna do. 446 00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:01,120 Speaker 1: You're going to tie me to this mass and time 447 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 1: me so tight that when the naked sirens starts singing um, 448 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:07,600 Speaker 1: future me won't be able to do anything about it 449 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,480 Speaker 1: because past me is brilliant. So it's like it's past 450 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:14,840 Speaker 1: Ulysses versus future Ulyssenes, and he binds future Ulysses, and 451 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 1: then when future Ulysses rolls around, he's like, oh my goodness, 452 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:21,000 Speaker 1: somebody in timey I want to go drown with these 453 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:23,919 Speaker 1: naked ladies, and and past Ulysses like ha ha, I 454 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:26,440 Speaker 1: got you. Yeah, well, And I think what's interesting about 455 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 1: this is that he's got the long term goal in mind, right. 456 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:32,159 Speaker 1: So that's really when we were talking about this a 457 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,199 Speaker 1: little bit more about how you do vanquished procrastinating, but 458 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:37,639 Speaker 1: that's a really big important part of that. He's got 459 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,440 Speaker 1: the past experience. You're drawn and he says, naked ladies, 460 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:42,720 Speaker 1: you have seen him before. My big goals to get 461 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 1: past you guys and live It reminds me, did you 462 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:48,640 Speaker 1: ever watch Strangers with Candy? Oh? Yes, do you remember Jazz? Oh? 463 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:52,000 Speaker 1: Who's jazz Jazzy was the like the old jazz singer 464 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:55,199 Speaker 1: band teacher that was in one episode, But he would um. 465 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 1: He was really attracted to the ladies, so he had 466 00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 1: to put a post it note on his hand that 467 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 1: says touch the girls, Jazzy. And so there's the same 468 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:06,119 Speaker 1: way he's like reaching after a girl's hinder and uh, 469 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 1: and then he yeah, and then he sees the post 470 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:10,440 Speaker 1: it note and he goes, ah, you're too fast for me, 471 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:13,639 Speaker 1: and uh. It's hilarious. But but it's a sound like 472 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 1: the opposite of the Ulysses. No, No, it's the it's 473 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:20,439 Speaker 1: exactly the same. It's past Jazzy um influencing future Jazzy 474 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 1: and saying, hey, future Jazzy, don't do anything I see 475 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:27,960 Speaker 1: I see the person always Yeah. But so Ulysses packed 476 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,200 Speaker 1: is Uh, it's sort of the same thing, and it's 477 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:32,280 Speaker 1: the eye. It comes back around to that idea that 478 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 1: we're always going to go for the the immediate pleasure 479 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 1: is is gonna appeal to us more than the distant pleasure, 480 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,400 Speaker 1: even if the immediate pleasure is something as fleeting as 481 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 1: candy is good versus the distant pleasure is is living 482 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,720 Speaker 1: longer or being healthier. You know, you can tie this 483 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:52,080 Speaker 1: into any number of addiction scenarios. Well, and you were 484 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:54,359 Speaker 1: telling me about I think the ultimate example of this 485 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:56,639 Speaker 1: that you heard on radio Lab. Yeah, this is it 486 00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 1: was the it was where all right? So what can 487 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,159 Speaker 1: go up against this can out? What can defeat the 488 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 1: immediate desire for pleasure? If immediate, if future greater pleasure 489 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:07,879 Speaker 1: won't do it. And the thing is, you need something 490 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:09,720 Speaker 1: that you have in the present really strong. So is 491 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,639 Speaker 1: a really strong emotional an outcome that's so repulsive that 492 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:14,840 Speaker 1: you would be completely shamed with yourself. This Yeah, this 493 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:16,960 Speaker 1: lady is trying to quit smoking. So she decided she 494 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,919 Speaker 1: made a pack with herself ironclad pat If I smoke, 495 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 1: I will donate a whole bunch of money to the 496 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,280 Speaker 1: K five thousand dollars. And she was a you know, 497 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:28,239 Speaker 1: she was a big civil rights supporter. So this was 498 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 1: just against every The idea of doing this stood against 499 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:33,919 Speaker 1: everything she'd believe. It would be like the the the 500 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 1: ultimate like not only just humiliating, but she would be 501 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:40,919 Speaker 1: supporting um a you know, a racist group that that 502 00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 1: she has despises. So her current her her current shame, 503 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,920 Speaker 1: her current displeasure. Uh, you know, however you want to 504 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,960 Speaker 1: frame it, her her current um adversarial position to the 505 00:26:54,000 --> 00:27:00,320 Speaker 1: to the KKK way outpowered the present urged smoke because 506 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:01,800 Speaker 1: she would say, like she'd wake up in the morning 507 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:03,679 Speaker 1: and she'd reach for a cigarette and she'd think, oh, no, 508 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,919 Speaker 1: I can't, but I cannot do this. Yeah, it's kind 509 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 1: of like future It's like a future Jazz was calling 510 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:13,159 Speaker 1: up President Jazz, and President Jazz's like, I don't know, 511 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:15,160 Speaker 1: Future Jazz, if you were here, maybe you could talk 512 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,240 Speaker 1: me out of this, but you're not who And then 513 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:19,360 Speaker 1: in the future Jazz is like, well, who's there who 514 00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:21,880 Speaker 1: can actually talk to talk to him? And he's like, oh, 515 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:25,480 Speaker 1: I'll call up his revulsion to this, you know, right right, Yeah, 516 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 1: that's all Jazzy needed. So it's pretty cool. Yeah. Um. 517 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,439 Speaker 1: And I think what's interesting about that again is just 518 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:33,720 Speaker 1: going to this idea of like, how do you really 519 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:38,320 Speaker 1: overcome procrastinating because we're so good at self deception again, 520 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 1: and this is from a sideblog, how to avoid procrastinating? 521 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:45,840 Speaker 1: I think concretely, and there's there's a clue right there. 522 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:49,680 Speaker 1: You have to be uh less abstract and more concrete 523 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:53,840 Speaker 1: about the decisions that you make and also about how 524 00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:56,840 Speaker 1: much time it's going to take to do anything. Oh yeah, 525 00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:00,119 Speaker 1: Hofstatter's law rights law that says that anything we think 526 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 1: about doing is basically gonna take longer than we think 527 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:06,000 Speaker 1: it will. Even if you take into account Offsetter saw, 528 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:09,720 Speaker 1: it's still going to take longer, like there's no recursive 529 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:11,160 Speaker 1: quality to it. Yeah, so we end up with it's 530 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 1: called it, you know, we end up with the planning fallacy. 531 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 1: But we plan to do something and we're never gonna 532 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:17,720 Speaker 1: kind it just right. You can. You can pencil in 533 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,040 Speaker 1: eight different things to do on your vacation day or 534 00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:22,440 Speaker 1: in your work day, and you're not going to get 535 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 1: to all of them because everything takes longer than it 536 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 1: should or you're not factoring in travel between the things, 537 00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:30,120 Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, yeah, alright, So what are your tips here? 538 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,439 Speaker 1: My tipsy not that we normally give tips, but you know, 539 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:35,359 Speaker 1: we were researching this we thought we'd share it with 540 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:37,199 Speaker 1: you guys. Okay, So I ran across a number of 541 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:42,040 Speaker 1: different suggested ideas. One is um the idea of setting 542 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,160 Speaker 1: up dummy goals like don't set up big goals, but 543 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,480 Speaker 1: set up dummy goals. Yeah, So it's like and and 544 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:52,440 Speaker 1: part of this, uh, the source of treating this on compared, uh, 545 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 1: tied it into the paradox of hedonism, which is, if 546 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 1: you seek happiness or pleasure, you won't find it. But 547 00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:01,480 Speaker 1: if you set a goal of, say winning a karaoke challenge, 548 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:05,600 Speaker 1: you might just have fun trying to achieve that. So 549 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:07,240 Speaker 1: in a way, it's kind of like shoot for a 550 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,600 Speaker 1: lower star and you just you know, And it's kind 551 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:12,960 Speaker 1: of like setting more realistic goals, but also setting dummy 552 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:16,479 Speaker 1: goals along your your towards your ultimate goal. All right, 553 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:20,200 Speaker 1: so there's there's this idea of structured procrastination. You can't 554 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 1: defeat procrastination, be constructured. You can turn one negative quality 555 00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 1: against the other. And this comes from John John Perry, 556 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 1: a professor of philosophy at Stanford University, and it basically 557 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 1: comes down, all right, procrastinators have excellent self deceptive skills. 558 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,280 Speaker 1: So so you have this to do list, and like 559 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:37,720 Speaker 1: we're saying, one of the big things about procrastination, we 560 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:39,480 Speaker 1: all have a to do list and we never end 561 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:41,760 Speaker 1: up finishing it. So we're always unhappy because we have 562 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:45,720 Speaker 1: an incomplete to do list. So he's saying, all right, 563 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 1: you have your on this to do list, move an 564 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:52,240 Speaker 1: item that you need to accomplish further down the list, Like, 565 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:54,640 Speaker 1: so your number one goal for the day is to 566 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:57,520 Speaker 1: actually set down and do your taxes, and then you 567 00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 1: have things like, um, clean out the dishwasher, and um, 568 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:04,800 Speaker 1: you know, feed the cat, not the floor. All right, 569 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 1: so we've all been in this position. You really don't 570 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:09,880 Speaker 1: want to do your taxes, so you find yourself achieving 571 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:13,560 Speaker 1: these going after these other achievable goals like who like, 572 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:15,760 Speaker 1: doing my taxes gonna take forever. I'm not really certain 573 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,360 Speaker 1: about my ability to do it right. But I can 574 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:20,960 Speaker 1: wash that floor, I can feed that cat, I can 575 00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:24,760 Speaker 1: I can unload that dishwasher. Um at a at a 576 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:28,280 Speaker 1: perfect level of of success. So you end up doing 577 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:30,600 Speaker 1: those things you can you feel you can succeed at better. 578 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 1: But anyway, the structured procrastination idea is to not put 579 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 1: the taxes at the top of the list. Put it 580 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:39,880 Speaker 1: a little further down, and then you will end up 581 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:42,720 Speaker 1: skipping the other things. She'll be thinking like, I don't 582 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 1: want to just unload the dishwasher. I hate unloading the dishwasher. 583 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 1: What's up? What's the else is on my list? Oh, taxes. 584 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 1: I'll go to my taxes so I don't have to 585 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:51,880 Speaker 1: do the unload the dishwasher. And I cannot say I 586 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,320 Speaker 1: really buy this side. Just about to say that seems like, 587 00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,320 Speaker 1: you know, you're trying to fool yourself into in your 588 00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:59,600 Speaker 1: taxes and you're a little bit more wildly than that. 589 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,280 Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, I feel like I'm too smart for 590 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:06,080 Speaker 1: for that particular well, even if I'm the one pulling 591 00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 1: it off. Also say that doing those the little tasks 592 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,720 Speaker 1: always makes me feel like I'm reading my brain for 593 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 1: accomplishing the bigger and wheeldy tasks like clearing the slate. 594 00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:20,680 Speaker 1: It's kind of printing, printing the field of my mind, 595 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,240 Speaker 1: and you know, so to speak, so that when I 596 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 1: sit down and and you know, I have actually like 597 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:28,760 Speaker 1: no other recourse now because I've exhausted my list and 598 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:30,800 Speaker 1: I sit down and I have to do it. It's 599 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:33,360 Speaker 1: like in a video game, so you're fighting three lesser 600 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,840 Speaker 1: opponents in one like stronger opponent. It's the idea of 601 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 1: picking off the three smaller ones so they're not nipping 602 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:41,520 Speaker 1: at your heels when you're trying to tackle the really 603 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,080 Speaker 1: dangerous exactly. And I don't know if that works for 604 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 1: other people, but you know, it's certainly I mean, it 605 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,600 Speaker 1: is procrastinating, but it's helpful procrastinating if you actually follow 606 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,480 Speaker 1: through with the final thing that you're wanting to do, right. 607 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 1: I do like the feeling, like if if I'm working 608 00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:57,240 Speaker 1: on stuff for there are a lot of different tasks 609 00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:59,160 Speaker 1: that fill our days. Here it how stuff works. I mean, 610 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:03,320 Speaker 1: it ranges from really cool stuff like podcast or writing 611 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:06,360 Speaker 1: an article to more mount mundane things like picking out 612 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:09,440 Speaker 1: which blocks to put on the homepage or you know, 613 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:11,440 Speaker 1: the things of this nature. And I feel like, even 614 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:15,240 Speaker 1: though those smaller tasks are not necessarily very skill intensive, 615 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:19,720 Speaker 1: I like the feeling of having the the day cleared 616 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:25,959 Speaker 1: to tackle one one challenging and or fulfilling task. And 617 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:27,680 Speaker 1: I think you'll see to your pattern there, because a 618 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,520 Speaker 1: lot of people will wait until that task, or rather 619 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,840 Speaker 1: wait until later in the week to fulfill that big task. 620 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,360 Speaker 1: So I've gotten all the other stuff done. Um, okay, 621 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,160 Speaker 1: let's talk about animals. Is it is there a possibility 622 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:43,320 Speaker 1: that animals procrastinate? I don't think so. I mean, um, 623 00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,120 Speaker 1: anybody who has pets tell me when you have ever 624 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 1: seen your cat or dog procrastinate, because generally they have 625 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,120 Speaker 1: certain needs and when those needs arise, they will take 626 00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,240 Speaker 1: care of them. If the catter dog is hungry, it 627 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:57,080 Speaker 1: will eat or beg for food. If if it needs 628 00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:59,720 Speaker 1: to use the restroom, uh, it will at least try 629 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:04,280 Speaker 1: to go outside or go to its required place of toiletry. 630 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,440 Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, you don't see a lot of procrastinating, 631 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:10,479 Speaker 1: but how would you Any behavior? Is is hard to report, 632 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 1: right right, because the other big thing is they don't 633 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:14,520 Speaker 1: have a lot else to do. I mean, it's not 634 00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:16,760 Speaker 1: like they have a lot of long term goals. Dogs 635 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:19,959 Speaker 1: and cats or any animal really. Even the really curriculan 636 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:24,680 Speaker 1: task that the various animals engage in, such as like 637 00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:27,960 Speaker 1: long distance travel or some sort of like complex or taxing, 638 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:30,840 Speaker 1: um mating ritual, they're just gonna do them. There's no 639 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,160 Speaker 1: putting it off. It's just that's what you do that. 640 00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:35,360 Speaker 1: And they don't have any any additional tasks, Like they're 641 00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:38,520 Speaker 1: not wanting to become rock stars or write books, or 642 00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:41,440 Speaker 1: or do their taxes or anything of this nature. Well, 643 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 1: we don't know their hearts. Maybe they do want to 644 00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:48,080 Speaker 1: become rock stars. But I will say this, uh Slate 645 00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:51,480 Speaker 1: dot com again, the article Procrastinators Without Borders talks about 646 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:55,080 Speaker 1: lab induced procrastination in animals, so it's really important to 647 00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:59,160 Speaker 1: talk about that lab induced. James emaz your he's a 648 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,840 Speaker 1: psychology professor, Sir. He was studying the percussion procrastination habits 649 00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:07,640 Speaker 1: of pigeons, and he trained them to peck illuminated keys 650 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,960 Speaker 1: at regular intervals in exchange for a tiny worriage and 651 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:13,360 Speaker 1: bird feed at the end of their work day. And 652 00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:16,040 Speaker 1: now all of this is crazy. The wage was higher 653 00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:18,719 Speaker 1: for the birds that worked most consistently and didn't take 654 00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,000 Speaker 1: any breaks, and the end pigeons turned out to be 655 00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:24,080 Speaker 1: such a layabouts that even a fourfold increase in food 656 00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:26,640 Speaker 1: could not incite them to peck in a timely fashion. 657 00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:30,160 Speaker 1: This may be the most ridiculous thing I've I've ever heard. 658 00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:32,719 Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's it's insightful. Don't get me wrong. 659 00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,120 Speaker 1: I'm not saying this is like wasted science or you know, 660 00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:37,759 Speaker 1: shrimp on a treadmill or anything like that. Did you 661 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:40,560 Speaker 1: say shrimp on a treadmill? Oh? Yeah, it's the latest 662 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:43,400 Speaker 1: thing making the news is that, you know, it's like 663 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:47,640 Speaker 1: certain groups politically love to rail against scientific studies that 664 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:51,120 Speaker 1: they that they judge as ridiculous and reformless. So they'll 665 00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:53,719 Speaker 1: pick out one little aspect of a study, such as 666 00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:56,080 Speaker 1: shrimp on a treadmill, and then they'll go nuts over 667 00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:00,640 Speaker 1: money university or oh, tax money is paying for shrimp 668 00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:03,719 Speaker 1: on a treadmill, Whether tax money is actually involved, or 669 00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:06,600 Speaker 1: if the study involves a whole lot more besides shrimp 670 00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:09,440 Speaker 1: on a treadmill, but at any rate, um the idea 671 00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:13,480 Speaker 1: of teaching teaching pigeons to progress, and I mean, it's 672 00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:15,880 Speaker 1: it's such an artificial scenario here, because you're taking an 673 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:20,799 Speaker 1: animal and then you're imposing this very human giving them 674 00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:24,560 Speaker 1: a wage and a task, and then then you're judging 675 00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:27,400 Speaker 1: them on their ability to on how steadfast they are 676 00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:31,160 Speaker 1: with this, with this stupid job you just gave them. Well, see, 677 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,799 Speaker 1: if anything, I think that it just can like it 678 00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:36,680 Speaker 1: points to the fact that procrastination is inherently a human 679 00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:39,480 Speaker 1: invention and it's probably just a clause that we have 680 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:41,680 Speaker 1: in the invention of time, right. Yeah, Well, it's kind 681 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,000 Speaker 1: of like we've we've given these pigeons some stupid things 682 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:47,279 Speaker 1: to do and then they're not that really into doing them. 683 00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:51,120 Speaker 1: We give ourselves so many stupid or unachievable things to do, 684 00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:54,799 Speaker 1: and then we have a hard time rallying to go 685 00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:58,640 Speaker 1: do them. So it's it's it's actually a very telling study, 686 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:00,560 Speaker 1: I think. Yeah, that's what I think. It's just it 687 00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,560 Speaker 1: just keep pointing back to the humans, not the animals. Yeah, 688 00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:06,520 Speaker 1: like why like why did you invent taxes? Why why 689 00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,000 Speaker 1: do you have these taxes to do every year? Because 690 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:11,840 Speaker 1: you're you know, it's like like that's the same system. 691 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:13,680 Speaker 1: We have invented it, and we're not that into it. 692 00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:17,520 Speaker 1: So we by inventing complex tasks and long term goals, 693 00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:22,239 Speaker 1: we invented procrastination because it's just doesn't really gell naturally 694 00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:24,920 Speaker 1: with the brain that we've evolved. Well, you know, if 695 00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:28,600 Speaker 1: you're following the matrix uh theory, then it's just one 696 00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,319 Speaker 1: of the ways to occupy ourselves, right, so that we 697 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:35,040 Speaker 1: just don't all die in the vine. We need something 698 00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:38,040 Speaker 1: to get our tackles raised up. About speaking of tackles, 699 00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:43,080 Speaker 1: I got a couple of emails from folks who commented 700 00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:47,400 Speaker 1: on our parasomnia podcast. This is one about the crazy 701 00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:50,719 Speaker 1: sleep and extremes. Yeah, extreme sleep, And I think at 702 00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:53,360 Speaker 1: one point you had mentioned that, you know, people should 703 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:56,200 Speaker 1: you know, contact their doctor and get this sort of 704 00:36:56,640 --> 00:37:00,160 Speaker 1: medication that might need. And I made the remark which 705 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:05,080 Speaker 1: was sort of out of context. Um that I think 706 00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:08,320 Speaker 1: I said something like I'm not want to seek sleep aids. 707 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:10,759 Speaker 1: And so this raised the hackles of a couple of 708 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:14,680 Speaker 1: people because they interpreted that is is me saying like, 709 00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:17,040 Speaker 1: I don't condone sleep aids or medications. So I just 710 00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:19,600 Speaker 1: want to make a clarification that I do condone medication 711 00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:22,400 Speaker 1: in sleep aids. Okay. Um, I think that I had 712 00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:24,880 Speaker 1: said that I was trying to remember this because we 713 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:27,239 Speaker 1: had had a previous conversation and I had said something 714 00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:31,120 Speaker 1: like I don't usually use sleep aid but I probably should. Right, 715 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:34,360 Speaker 1: So that's the out of context part well. And then 716 00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:36,600 Speaker 1: of course the added layer that like some sleep there 717 00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:39,280 Speaker 1: are certainly sleep problems, and then there are sleep problems, 718 00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:43,080 Speaker 1: and right, I don't think either of us um have 719 00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:45,760 Speaker 1: had to really deal with actually like real hardcore sleep 720 00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:48,520 Speaker 1: problems like oh no, I mean some people, yeah, they 721 00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:52,200 Speaker 1: are completely you know, dogged by insomnia for four or 722 00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:55,480 Speaker 1: five nights in a row. So and obviously there's you know, 723 00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:59,560 Speaker 1: at any point, whatever someone's personal choices to make with 724 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:02,440 Speaker 1: a step medication is you know that throwing choice, and 725 00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:05,319 Speaker 1: they should pursue that um. And I should also mention, 726 00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:07,600 Speaker 1: on a lighter note, there have been times where we 727 00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:10,840 Speaker 1: have said Richard Attenborough when we, of course meet David Attenburgh. 728 00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:13,480 Speaker 1: David Attenborough has the naturalist who has given us so 729 00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:16,360 Speaker 1: many great um um you know it shows up on 730 00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:20,600 Speaker 1: BBC and Discovery, so much great narration, so much messing 731 00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:24,320 Speaker 1: around with animals. His brother Richard basically, Sir Richard, sir well, 732 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:26,799 Speaker 1: all right, sir Richard. But basically, I mean, for all 733 00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,239 Speaker 1: my money, all he's done is he got eaten by 734 00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:32,120 Speaker 1: a dinosaur once, so there you go. Or maybe he didn't. 735 00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:34,240 Speaker 1: He didn't get eaten by a dinosaur in the movie 736 00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:39,040 Speaker 1: just in the book. M okay. Anyway, David Attenburgh, he's 737 00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:40,440 Speaker 1: the one we like. Ye. So there you have it. 738 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:44,040 Speaker 1: If you would like to keep up with us, find 739 00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:46,880 Speaker 1: out what we're blogging about, what we're podcasting about, what 740 00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:49,600 Speaker 1: we're thinking about podcasting about, you can find us on 741 00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:52,040 Speaker 1: Twitter and Facebook. We are blow the mind on both 742 00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:54,480 Speaker 1: of those. One word yeah, and I'm very curious to 743 00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:57,719 Speaker 1: know what your favorite procrastinating activity is. You know what 744 00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:00,600 Speaker 1: do you do to to put off the inevitable? So 745 00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:03,920 Speaker 1: listening to this podcast, keep it up? Yeah, that's right. 746 00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:06,000 Speaker 1: So feel free to share with us at blow the 747 00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:13,160 Speaker 1: Mind at how stuff works dot com. Be sure to 748 00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:16,040 Speaker 1: check out our new video podcasts, Stuff from the Future. 749 00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:18,680 Speaker 1: Join how Stuff Work staff as we explore the most 750 00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:21,560 Speaker 1: promising and perplexing possibilities of tomorrow.