Speaker 1: Welcome to Football Today. I'm your host Bobby Skinner here
Speaker 1: with my co host Justin Pennock. December twenty fifth, twenty
Speaker 1: twenty four. I hope everyone's having a wonderful Wednesday. And
Speaker 1: of course, because it's Wednesday, we are having a show.
Speaker 1: We're doing our awards for the season, and we're gonna
Speaker 1: get really creative. We're gonna do MVP, We're gonna do
Speaker 1: Offensive Defensive Player of the Year, Offensive Rookie of the Year,
Speaker 1: Defensive Rookie of the Year, and Coach of the Year.
Speaker 1: And no one cares about Comeback Player of the Year
Speaker 1: because it's a fraudulent award and they changed the rules completely.
Speaker 1: Justin how are you.
Speaker 2: I'm good, Bobby Skinner. I'm very very good. Happy Wednesday
Speaker 2: to everybody that celebrates this Wednesday. Yeah, kind of did
Speaker 2: the math. We're like, oh, well, coaches are going to
Speaker 2: start to get fired and it's going to be the
Speaker 2: end of the season, so we're not actually sure if
Speaker 2: we're actually going to have like a formal show where
Speaker 2: we get to give our end of season award ballot.
Speaker 2: And I kind of feel a little dirty because there
Speaker 2: is because a lot of these awards at least MVP.
Speaker 2: I think it is, sir, every p you's.
Speaker 1: Gonna come down to the stretch.
Speaker 2: It is kind of cut down to the stretch. So
Speaker 2: I kind of feel bad putting my you know, putting
Speaker 2: our flag in the sands, so to speak, what we
Speaker 2: say over here. I kind of feel bad, but we
Speaker 2: gotta do it. Let's do it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Also, the NFL has really screwed up their awards
Speaker 1: thing by putting it the night before the super Bowl,
Speaker 1: So it's like, you don't you don't even give talk
Speaker 1: shows like a day to talk about the like it
Speaker 1: was a perfect middle midweek of the playoffs, we can
Speaker 1: talk about m v P and stuff. And then they're like, oh,
Speaker 1: you know what we should do. We should put it
Speaker 1: on Saturday night. There's no shows before the super Bowl,
Speaker 1: and guess what we're talking about the next day, the
Speaker 1: super Bowl, not the awards. Great job, NFL, you really
Speaker 1: have done a good job with this. But I think
Speaker 1: MVP is pretty like probably the more one of the
Speaker 1: most interesting MVP races in a long time. Justin and
Speaker 1: let's get let's start there. M VP of the NFL.
Speaker 1: I think it's people are arguing too. I think it
Speaker 1: can become a free man race depending on how the
Speaker 1: quarterbacks do and if Sakwon Barkley breaks the all time
Speaker 1: rushing record. But it's really between Saquon Barkley, Lamar Jackson
Speaker 1: and Josh Allen And who are you going.
Speaker 2: Now? I have a hope and I have a big
Speaker 2: speech that I want to go on, but I'm not
Speaker 2: going to do that yet because I have to pick one.
Speaker 1: Lamar Jackson, Okay, thank you. Can I say something? People
Speaker 1: who say Josh Allen are just wrong.
Speaker 2: Josh Allen has less to work with but still like it.
Speaker 1: But let's up acting like the Ravens are just you know,
Speaker 1: the super team, like the receivers Za Flowers and Mark Andrews,
Speaker 1: who has not been the same version of himself.
Speaker 2: They're not.
Speaker 1: No, Like, let's let's stop acting and it's'd be if
Speaker 1: it was close. Lamar has two hundred more passing yards
Speaker 1: than Josh Allen. He has twelve more passing touchdowns at
Speaker 1: thirty seven compared to Josh Allen's twenty six. He has
Speaker 1: two less interceptions, which is why, uh, you know Josh
Speaker 1: Allen's kind of finally in this is because you know
Speaker 1: he has those and by the way, Josh Allen was
Speaker 1: my preseason MVP pick. He has Lamar has two hundred
Speaker 1: and fifty more rushing yards. The only stat that Josh
Speaker 1: Allen has is the eleven rushing touchdowns while Lamar has three.
Speaker 1: And you're like, oh, well, Derek Henry and the wrong game. Okay, Well,
Speaker 1: I mean James cook Is. You know, he's a thousand
Speaker 1: yard back. He was third in rushing last year. You know,
Speaker 1: he just doesn't get the short yard his yards that
Speaker 1: Josh Allen ends up getting that Lamar's getting. So I
Speaker 1: want to talk about Lamar vers Saquan and all of this,
Speaker 1: but I think the main thing we need to talk
Speaker 1: about is Lamar v'us Josh Allen. And I think if
Speaker 1: you are voting for Josh Allen, I think you are
Speaker 1: simply wrong and you don't want to give You'd rather
Speaker 1: give Josh Allen his first MVP than Lamar his third
Speaker 1: and a back to back. I think I think you're
Speaker 1: bored with Lamar if you're not giving Lamar Jackson the
Speaker 1: MVP award. If you want to talk to me about
Speaker 1: like all the arguments, like you said, are not about
Speaker 1: like what they're actually doing on the field, Well he
Speaker 1: doesn't have as much to work with, and the fact
Speaker 1: that the Bills have three losses and the Ravens have five.
Speaker 2: I'm not as strong. I like, I think Lamar deserves
Speaker 2: it more. I think Lamar has had a better year.
Speaker 2: But I'm not as strong saying you're wrong. Can I
Speaker 2: tell you better?
Speaker 1: In one statistical category, like.
Speaker 2: I will say, and I agree with you, but I
Speaker 2: will say Josh Allen is leading the league in EPA
Speaker 2: per play, and he is leading it by a somewhat
Speaker 2: good margin. He's the only guy with the point whose
Speaker 2: EPA per play starts with point three. Everybody else starts
Speaker 2: with point two. And MVP has typically been an EPA
Speaker 2: per play like award at least the last couple of years.
Speaker 2: And I don't know if that includes last year because
Speaker 2: last year was just weird. They had to give it
Speaker 2: to somebody last year, which Lamar deserved it last year too.
Speaker 1: But it should be a total EPA, not an APPA
Speaker 1: per play.
Speaker 2: That's okay, That's that's good. I could I could even
Speaker 2: check on that maybe.
Speaker 1: But and maybe Josh Allen's ahead of him.
Speaker 2: But I'm going to tell you my wish. I'm going
Speaker 2: to tell you my wish we don't have total EPA.
Speaker 2: ESPN does that if you want to look into that.
Speaker 2: I hope they split it.
Speaker 1: I have not happened that since Peyton Manning, Steve McNair.
Speaker 2: I feel dirty trying to trying to say like, definitively
Speaker 2: Lamar Jackson has been better than Josh Allen or definitively
Speaker 2: Josh allen'son better than Lamar. I think they both deserve it.
Speaker 2: Part of me hopes if there's fifty writers, ten votes
Speaker 2: goes to Saquon, twenty goes to Alan, twenty goes to Lamar.
Speaker 2: That's my hope.
Speaker 1: So it'd be very hard for that to happen, and
Speaker 1: it would be hard. I'm shocked that has even happened
Speaker 1: once with Peyton Manning and Steve McNair here. But we
Speaker 1: got to talk about saque in this talk too.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 1: Now Here's the issue is that the v and MVP
Speaker 1: I feel like ruined some people. And I understand if
Speaker 1: you want to argue by the leather law, but what
Speaker 1: is more valuable the quarterback or the running back? Fine,
Speaker 1: but you know what, this is the NFL, and to me,
Speaker 1: we give running backs to MVP when they close, they
Speaker 1: get very close or break all time rushing records. You know,
Speaker 1: when Adrian Peterson, you know, came eight yards short of
Speaker 1: Eric Dickerson's record in twenty twelve, we gave him the record.
Speaker 1: When Lendani and Thomlinson broke the touchdown record of six,
Speaker 1: we gave him the MVP. When Shawn Alexander didn't oh five,
Speaker 1: we gave him the MVP. Sae Kwon Barkley right now
Speaker 1: is on pace to miss it by twenty two yards.
Speaker 1: And I know you could talk about the extra game
Speaker 1: in there, but in reality, like we just have to start.
Speaker 1: That's you know, we can't we can't do Yeah, we
Speaker 1: can't do that for everything. You know, for a long time,
Speaker 1: it was fourteen games and then they you know went
Speaker 1: to sixteen. Right, that's a bigger gap. So when like
Speaker 1: we didn't not celebrate those records.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and if you want to compare records, it's Eric
Speaker 2: Dickerson has one hundred and thirty one yards per game.
Speaker 2: Sequon Barkley as of now, has one hundred and twenty two.
Speaker 1: Yards per game.
Speaker 2: Insane.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So like like there's a there's you know, a legit,
Speaker 1: a legit like reason why to give him and I'm
Speaker 1: sorry you want to you want to argue me about
Speaker 1: the whole value thing, fine, have at it. Guess what
Speaker 1: what I'm not gonna do is I'm not just gonna
Speaker 1: eliminate every single position from this. I will put running
Speaker 1: backs in here. Do you think that there can be
Speaker 1: enough for Saquon and people going back and forth on
Speaker 1: Lamar and Allen where that split some of the votes
Speaker 1: and ends up getting getting this thing? Because I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna sit here and I'll tell you how strong. Here's
Speaker 1: what I'll say right now. I will say Lamar Jackson,
Speaker 1: if Squon breaks Eric Dickerson's rushing record, I would vote
Speaker 1: for Saquon. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think he is gonna fall just short. I think
Speaker 2: that Steelers game kind of kind of got.
Speaker 1: Him right now. He's on pace to miss it by
Speaker 1: twenty two yards. But he's also playing the Cowboys and
Speaker 1: the Giants, which.
Speaker 2: Yeah, which you know very very well defense.
Speaker 1: I bet you kind of wish you didn't like go out,
Speaker 1: you know, in the early in that Giants game earlier
Speaker 1: in the year, because that would help him out. Uh.
Speaker 2: Here's here, here's how I think it could. The saque
Speaker 2: impact is gonna hurt somebody. I think it's gonna help
Speaker 2: Josh Allen. I think because you're you're gonna have some
Speaker 2: people that even if they think Lamar deserves it, there's
Speaker 2: gonna be maybe some people out there that don't want
Speaker 2: to give it to Lamar back to back and for
Speaker 2: his third time is going to vote Saquon, And then
Speaker 2: I think that's going to actually help put Josh Allen
Speaker 2: over the edge.
Speaker 1: Man. I would love to flex the fact that I
Speaker 1: got like my MVP pick right with Josh Allen. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but yeah, I just don't think he's deserving, Like to me,
Speaker 1: he's he's right now, he's third place.
Speaker 2: And you so I checked in on total EPA. Do
Speaker 2: you know who's number one in the NFL in total
Speaker 2: EPA right now?
Speaker 1: It's Alan and then Lamar is like point two behind him,
Speaker 1: right total.
Speaker 2: Well, again, this everybody may be calculates differently. You shouldn't
Speaker 2: calculate ep A different There's no way you calculate that
Speaker 2: differently total EPA. Lamar's number three, Josh Allen is number two,
Speaker 2: and this is number one. Joe Burrow's number one, which
Speaker 2: that you know Joe Burrow is also It should should
Speaker 2: low key be in this mix.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but he's and that's we're all concede. Like when
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, we'll talk about the like if you
Speaker 1: have a losing record, you can't be in the MVP
Speaker 1: Award race. That's just the reality of it. But like
Speaker 1: Joe Burrow does belong in the conversation somewhat. But like
Speaker 1: the idea of like, oh, well, Josh Allen has less
Speaker 1: to work with, It's like what, like I'm sorry, I'm
Speaker 1: having Rashaud Bateman as your number two wide receiver is
Speaker 1: not some some situation where it it harms you when
Speaker 1: it comes to award season. You know, if you want
Speaker 1: to talk about like, oh, well this team had you know,
Speaker 1: Joe Borough having if this was Joe Burrow, you're talking
Speaker 1: about having Jamar Chase and t Higgins and all that. Maybe,
Speaker 1: but like the Ravens O line is not an advantage. No,
Speaker 1: They're not a good pass blocking unit, you know, like
Speaker 1: they like they have like negatives on that offensive line.
Speaker 1: So like again people get bored with like Lamar's rush.
Speaker 1: If Lamar was dropped into the NFL this year and
Speaker 1: he had this season, I don't think it'd be would
Speaker 1: do you think it'd be an argument, if Lamar had
Speaker 1: never won an MVP, do you think Lamar would be
Speaker 1: like the clear cut MVP favorite right now?
Speaker 2: Oh if he yes, yes, but because he's what he
Speaker 2: won it last year, it.
Speaker 1: Is bullshit, it's bullshit.
Speaker 2: No, But what Lamar is doing is it's just it's
Speaker 2: it's out of this fucking world. Out of this world
Speaker 2: man with the the pet Like we thought, what he did?
Speaker 2: You know, me even last year, it's.
Speaker 1: Like all last year is one of this worst statistically
Speaker 1: statistical MVPs.
Speaker 2: But there was a big talking point that I had
Speaker 2: last year, and I remember Ben Solock had had it
Speaker 2: last year of like stats can't properly measure Lamar's impact,
Speaker 2: and he crumpled that talking point up this year, threw
Speaker 2: it to the side. And it's like, yeah, I'm gonna
Speaker 2: I'm gonna do what I do in terms of running
Speaker 2: the ball and being valuable and being dangerous to defenses,
Speaker 2: and I'm gonna bring the passing stats with me this
Speaker 2: year and I'm gonna do that. And no, I never
Speaker 2: thought that Lamar would be this good of a passer
Speaker 2: in terms of the advanced numbers to kind of follow him.
Speaker 2: I knew that he's good and you'll know that he
Speaker 2: can be like this, top three QB in the NFL
Speaker 2: even without these passing numbers. But the fact that he
Speaker 2: has these passing numbers now backing him up is nuts, man.
Speaker 2: It's nuts.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and to me. But here's my thing, is Lamar, Lamar,
Speaker 1: Lamar beat Josh Allen this year if you like, if
Speaker 1: you the win lost part of this like, yeah, so
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna let the difference between ten and five
Speaker 1: and twelve and three like, well, that gives this guy
Speaker 1: the edge even though he's worse in every statistical category.
Speaker 2: Sekwon Barkley also tech beat Derrick Henry.
Speaker 1: There you go. I should not be play too much
Speaker 1: of a part of it, all right, which so official
Speaker 1: you're you are Lamar. I'm gonna say Lamar right now,
Speaker 1: but I mind just telling you right now, if Saquon
Speaker 1: gets within ten rushing yards of Eric Dickerson and two
Speaker 1: more touchdowns, it goes him. And if he breaks to
Speaker 1: Eric Dickerson rushing record and he doesn't win MVP, I'll
Speaker 1: be outraged.
Speaker 2: Two hundred and sixty seven yards over the next two games.
Speaker 2: That's one hundred and thirty three point five.
Speaker 1: Yeah, very doable. For him. I mean that's just average
Speaker 1: twelve more yards per game than what he's averaging. It's
Speaker 1: two bad run defenses.
Speaker 2: And especially if Jalen hurts us out, they will just
Speaker 2: be giving him the ball.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he won't, you know. And here's the other thing,
Speaker 1: is like you want to talk about like being hurt
Speaker 1: by like Saquon should have Like on any other team,
Speaker 1: you have like eight more touchdowns, but the jailer gets
Speaker 1: the one yard touchdowns on that. This is true, all right,
Speaker 1: Offensive Player of the Year. This is probably a little
Speaker 1: less thrilling because we're talking about this guy on MVP.
Speaker 1: It's Saquon Barkley. Correct. Yeah, this was once a conversation
Speaker 1: with Derrick Henry. Henry does have the same yards per carry,
Speaker 1: just has two less carries per game than him, both
Speaker 1: thirteen rushing touchdowns. But Saquan, like I said, I have
Speaker 1: a little more. I think Jamar Chase, you know, is
Speaker 1: a fun year. I think he could have gotten on
Speaker 1: any other year's fifteen hundred receiving yards sixteen touchdowns. You know,
Speaker 1: that's one hundred and thirty more yards than second place.
Speaker 1: And Justin Jefferson has four more touchdowns than Terry McLaurin
Speaker 1: with with you know, twelve and second place. But saque
Speaker 1: he's gonna he's gonna get the two thousand, he gets
Speaker 1: Offensive Player of the Year. It's probably pretty simple, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, just based on that. I mean, Henry is
Speaker 2: better in terms of the yards yards after contact, He's
Speaker 2: broken more tackles, but there's just no arguing. There's no
Speaker 2: r arguing what Sekwon Barkley's done. Seguan's also playing a
Speaker 2: lot more than Derrick Henry too. If I were to
Speaker 2: tell you the percentage of available offensive snaps Derrick Henry,
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 1: This is right. They don't use Henry in the receiving
Speaker 1: game at all.
Speaker 2: Fifty five point eight percent of the offensive snaps for
Speaker 2: Derick Henry versus Saquon Barkley seventy three point four of us.
Speaker 2: So that's kind of shocking. But Saikwon deserves it. I mean,
Speaker 2: there's really no there's no offens or butts that you
Speaker 2: can come with.
Speaker 1: Why don't you talk to us about something justin before
Speaker 1: we talk about Defensive Player of the Year.
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Speaker 2: You will be glad you did.
Speaker 1: You'd be glad you did. Defensive Player of the year man.
Speaker 1: There's no clear cut guy here, right because all the guys,
Speaker 1: all the pass rushers are similar in the sack totals
Speaker 1: and even tackle there's like not big discrepancies and tackles
Speaker 1: for loss. I'm going Miles Garrett again though, Okay, he's
Speaker 1: second in sacks behind Trey Hendrickson by one or one
Speaker 1: and a half. I believe he's first in tackles for loss,
Speaker 1: tied with TJ. Watt. He has the most total pressure
Speaker 1: for you know, sacks hit some pressures for edge, only
Speaker 1: one behind Chris Jones, who's a defensive tackle. Number one
Speaker 1: in past rush win rate. This is an edge award.
Speaker 1: I don't think there's any corners who are making a
Speaker 1: play at it this year. I know would be Joseph
Speaker 1: Xavier McKay. I I'd take McKenney over Kirby Joseph in this.
Speaker 1: I'm going Miles Garrett. Do you do you think he's
Speaker 1: gonna get it though, because he's on the Cleveland Browns. No.
Speaker 2: I think it's gonna go to t J. Watt again.
Speaker 2: And I and I I don't even think that because
Speaker 2: t J. Watt's on the Steelers. I think it be
Speaker 2: I think t J Watt deserves it because of what
Speaker 2: he does as a run defender, not to say that
Speaker 2: Miles Garrett's a bad run defender. I just think t J.
Speaker 2: Watt is an incredible.
Speaker 1: Miles Garrett's a better run defender. Really, Miles Garrett gets
Speaker 1: the tackles for a losses without doing the workoutside in
Speaker 1: type stuff. He just sets the edge and still gets
Speaker 1: those tackles for a loss.
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, I think average stuff of tackle. Like again,
Speaker 2: I'm going off with some numbers, which it's tough to
Speaker 2: give numbers for run defense. I definitely think that's more
Speaker 2: of a film. It's more of a film like, hey,
Speaker 2: is this guy can Kenny set an Edgejgi stronger? You
Speaker 2: need to watch that type of shit. And I'm not
Speaker 2: watching both any of these guys like down and down
Speaker 2: out to say who's actually better. But I know average
Speaker 2: have to tackle. TJ. Watt gets the edge and a
Speaker 2: run stop, right, I think TJ Watt gets the edge
Speaker 2: and and shit like that. So I know TJ Watt
Speaker 2: leads him more force fumbles, So that's as a pass rusher.
Speaker 2: Plus you can force a fumble as a run defender too,
Speaker 2: So that's why I would give it to g TJ.
Speaker 2: Watch just because I think overall more complete. However, like
Speaker 2: there are guys that are legitimately better pass rushers than TJ. Watt, though,
Speaker 2: because TJ. Watt. One of the critiques that he's had
Speaker 2: is the years have gone on, is guys like Miles
Speaker 2: Garrett Hendrickson, there's a you know, a good amount of
Speaker 2: guys in the league that are better at getting pressure
Speaker 2: than TJ.
Speaker 1: Watt.
Speaker 2: But TJ. Watt is just such a good finisher. He
Speaker 2: finishes every year, every year.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and if he had like a three sack lead
Speaker 1: on them, then I'd say, yeah, like this is defensive
Speaker 1: Player of the Year. Is is kind of like sacks
Speaker 1: matter more than total pressure. Yeah, you know, but at
Speaker 1: the end of the day, Miles Garrett has more sacks.
Speaker 1: And if we're talking about total like pressure, let's see
Speaker 1: words to Miles Garrett's first for edges.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you gotta, you gotta because watch twenty fourth. Hey
Speaker 2: he doesn't have the hurries.
Speaker 1: He's twenty fourth past rush win rate, Miles Garrett eleven
Speaker 1: percent better pressure percentage, he's four percent better. Like, again,
Speaker 1: I don't get voter fatigue. I'm giving it to Miles Garrett,
Speaker 1: and I actually think Andrew Van Ginkel has like a
Speaker 1: better case this year for than t J. Watt. You know,
Speaker 1: he's top five and sacks and tackles for a loss.
Speaker 1: He has interceptions. I've turned the touchdowns or at least one.
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I think both his I think both his
Speaker 1: interceptions went for touchdowns one on Jones, one on Aaron
Speaker 1: Rodgers and the London game. So and then McKinney's in
Speaker 1: there too, But Trey Hendrickson. No, Trey Hendrickson is like
Speaker 1: in there with with those three. What I'm saying is
Speaker 1: like if people just edge VERSU edge, I'm taking Miles
Speaker 1: Garrett and then Andrew Van Ginkel. I think the two
Speaker 1: interceptions wall being top five, that can be a differentiator
Speaker 1: for him, where I don't think there's a differentiator between
Speaker 1: Hendrickson and Garrett and then McKinney. I think if McKinny
Speaker 1: had like three interceptions in the last two games and
Speaker 1: you get double digit interceptions, I think you could give
Speaker 1: it to him. But in reality, it's just so hard
Speaker 1: for a TB and especially a safety to get this award.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I still I still give the edge to
Speaker 2: Wat though.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm going Miles Garrett all right time for Offensive
Speaker 1: Rookie of the Year. So some would say this is easy,
Speaker 1: and it is easy, uh to predict who's going to
Speaker 1: be because Jaden Daniels is going to win Offensive Rookie
Speaker 1: of the Year. I have not made my final decision
Speaker 1: on what I'm going to say on this, because Jaden
Speaker 1: Daniels has had a phenomenal season. He has thirty three
Speaker 1: hundred passing yards, twenty two passing touchdowns, eight interceptions. He
Speaker 1: has seven hundred and thirty seven rushing yards and seven touchdowns.
Speaker 1: Brock Bowers is either going to have the second best
Speaker 1: tight end rookie year ever, which it will be the
Speaker 1: second best. Mike dick does is better, but he played
Speaker 1: less games. But so he's gonna have the second best
Speaker 1: tight end receiving yard receiving season ever. He's eighth in
Speaker 1: receiving yards for the entire NFL. He's second in catches,
Speaker 1: like he's setting records with Justin and I feel like
Speaker 1: that should matter. And this is not Offensive Rookie of
Speaker 1: the Year. It's not most valuable, right, so you don't
Speaker 1: get to play that same argument that you do with
Speaker 1: the MVP position. But here's the reason why I'm going
Speaker 1: to go Jaden Daniels justin is because he has seven
Speaker 1: hundred and thirty seven rushing yards. Like that is not
Speaker 1: a small number. He's fourteenth in rushing yards this year
Speaker 1: for all the NFL, He's tenth in touchdowns, and even
Speaker 1: just looking at rookies right like, he has one hundred
Speaker 1: and twenty less rushing yards than Bucky Irving, who's the
Speaker 1: most for rookie running backs, and he has more than
Speaker 1: Tyrone Tracy, who's second for rookie running backs. So if
Speaker 1: he had like a four hundred to five hundred yard
Speaker 1: rushing season Jaden Daniels, that'd be really good'd be like
Speaker 1: top three for quarterbacks. But be having that much to
Speaker 1: me makes me say, Jaden Daniels, I'm telling you, if
Speaker 1: it was two hundred three hundred yards lower, which is
Speaker 1: a lot of yards, I would be going Brock Bows
Speaker 1: because what he's doing. But at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: I gotta go Jaden Daniels.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Jaden Daniels is gonna finish with over thirty total
Speaker 2: touchdowns on the area is twenty two passing. He has
Speaker 2: six rushing right now, So you think he's gonna finish
Speaker 2: with more than two through the final two games of
Speaker 2: the season. Interception rate is low enough, in a low
Speaker 2: enough for rookie that you that you can really live with.
Speaker 2: If he's gonna finish the year with below ten, then
Speaker 2: that's solid. He is eight right now, close to a
Speaker 2: seventy percent completion rate. But I mean, you do look
Speaker 2: at brock Bowers's line and the fact that there's one
Speaker 2: hundred and one reception, one hundred and thirty seven target,
Speaker 2: one thousand and sixty seven yards, the fact that that's
Speaker 2: the only line on this profoboile reference page right now
Speaker 2: and there's more to come.
Speaker 1: It's amazing.
Speaker 2: It's it's it is incredible. Like it's one of the
Speaker 2: best seasons that we've ever seen from a tight end. Now,
Speaker 2: my only question is this is kind of like an
Speaker 2: asshole question. I if the Raiders get better, and that's
Speaker 2: an if. If the Raiders get better and if they
Speaker 2: add more targets, is that production always going to be there?
Speaker 2: Probably not, And is that a referendum on brock Bowers
Speaker 2: as a player, But regardless, that's not sure.
Speaker 1: At the same time, their passing offense is terrible, you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying so like, yeah, will he get
Speaker 1: the same target share, No, but I think he'll be
Speaker 1: cracking one thousand plus every single season like he's a
Speaker 1: special player.
Speaker 2: But that also shouldn't impact Rookie of the Year voting,
Speaker 2: like that question should not.
Speaker 1: No. No, Now, I will say I was on the
Speaker 1: Brock Bowers train until Jaden Daniels had five passing touchdowns
Speaker 1: versus Eagles. Yeah, because then then then I'm arguing, like
Speaker 1: the passing touchdowns are too low to put him over
Speaker 1: a historic tight end rookie season. But getting getting to
Speaker 1: that twenty two, like I said, it's it's not great.
Speaker 1: You know, he's like I said, he's tenth and passing
Speaker 1: touchdowns this year, fourteenth and passing yards like those are
Speaker 1: those are good, not great where Brock Bowers numbers are great,
Speaker 1: just you know, next to his peers at his position
Speaker 1: and not just rookies. But at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: I just think the rushing yards for Jaden Daniels puts
Speaker 1: him as the clear winner here.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And I also think there's moments for Jaden Daniels right.
Speaker 1: Where the Bowers there's none.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, what's what's gonna be the highlight reel man
Speaker 2: that you're gonna show the that Saturday Night the Award Show,
Speaker 2: just Brock Bowers catching a bunch of balls, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean. But Jaden Daniels, there's the Eagles game,
Speaker 2: there's the there's the Hell Mary, there's the there's the
Speaker 2: Bengals game where he's making some of those magic deep throws.
Speaker 2: So there's there's moments with uh, you know, with Jaden Daniels.
Speaker 2: And then if he even you know, goes on maybe
Speaker 2: even a little bit of a playoff run, and depending
Speaker 2: on how they do, if for Brock Bowers, it's just, man,
Speaker 2: look at this guy catching the ball. Which that's not
Speaker 2: a it's not a shot at Bowers. It's just Daniels
Speaker 2: has had more of those moments. The team has won
Speaker 2: a little bit, so it's gonna be just sex year
Speaker 2: to give it to him.
Speaker 1: If Bowers had like eight or nine receiving touchdowns, maybe
Speaker 1: I'd still be going for him. But I go Jayden Dance,
Speaker 1: our defensive rookie of the Year. Now, this has kind
Speaker 1: of been slam dunk all year, but I will say
Speaker 1: justin Jared Versus was a slam dunk in this and
Speaker 1: it's like Kenyon Mitchell's having a great year. But what
Speaker 1: Jared Versus doing is different, and he plays the edge position,
Speaker 1: which gives him a little bit of an edge. No
Speaker 1: pun intended, but Jared Versus had zero sacks and zero
Speaker 1: tackles for a LO in the last six games. Now,
Speaker 1: He's still played really well. He's been disruptive. He has
Speaker 1: fourth in you know, for edges, in the entire NFL
Speaker 1: in total sacks, hits and pressures. He's ninth in past
Speaker 1: rush win rate. So it's not those zero sacks, zero
Speaker 1: tackles for loss. They're not a referendum on teams are
Speaker 1: figuring him out a little bit. It's just kind of
Speaker 1: the nature of the edge position is sometimes you will
Speaker 1: go a little bit of dry spell and the counting stats,
Speaker 1: but are you still being disruptive? He has been, But
Speaker 1: I'm still giving Jared verse the defensive Rookie of the
Speaker 1: Year over Kenyon.
Speaker 2: I am too, But for the sake of let's just
Speaker 2: talk about another player. For the sake of talking about
Speaker 2: another player.
Speaker 1: Here comes Chop Robinson.
Speaker 2: God darn it, yeah, man, Chopp has played half the
Speaker 2: defensive snaps this year. I thought he was hurt and
Speaker 2: I think he was, but maybe they were kind of
Speaker 2: holding him back. It says that he's played in fifteen games,
Speaker 2: but he's only appeared in fifty one point two percent
Speaker 2: of the defensive snaps while Jared Versus played seventy seven
Speaker 2: point three. Jopp Robinson has more sacks than Jared Verse. Now.
Speaker 2: I think Jared Versus a better run defender and I
Speaker 2: think Chop Robinson has like an obscene, like thirty five
Speaker 2: percent mistackle rate right now. So there's issues that Chop
Speaker 2: Robinson's got to work on. I think He's got to
Speaker 2: work on balance issues. But man, is he a is
Speaker 2: he a fun watch in terms of speed and power
Speaker 2: and he blends the two and you know, offensive lineman
Speaker 2: at times are trying to, you know, Chop his hands
Speaker 2: down and he just bull rushes right into him, saying
Speaker 2: bring it on. So Chop Robinson towards the second half
Speaker 2: of this year has been really really fun to watch,
Speaker 2: and I think I think Chop was hurt. I think
Speaker 2: if he didn't have that slow start or the slow injury, whatever,
Speaker 2: even if Chop Robinson has the same issues, I think
Speaker 2: he would be Defensive Rookie of the Year just because
Speaker 2: his numbers would be better than Jared Verse. Some of
Speaker 2: the numbers are better than Jared Verse right now, and
Speaker 2: he's only basically played half the season.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just think Jared Verse brings you more of
Speaker 1: a run. But Kenyon Mitchell, man, he's right up there.
Speaker 1: He gave up his first touchdown this previous week. But
Speaker 1: like nine past breakups is a law now, No, no
Speaker 1: interceptions will hurt him when it comes to award season,
Speaker 1: which even though it's not the most fair thing in
Speaker 1: the world. Like you, when we're talking about awards, cornerbacks
Speaker 1: just need to have interceptions to be getting uh those awards.
Speaker 2: Where did he fall?
Speaker 1: Kenyon? I think he went what for?
Speaker 2: No? He went twenty?
Speaker 1: Yeah, fucking motherfucker.
Speaker 2: I mean just just the best defensive player in the draft.
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe uh, we're going to screw up the draft
Speaker 1: next year, justin, But I feel like I feel great
Speaker 1: about our eVols in this last draft cycle, even like
Speaker 1: cam Keinchin's right, like he's had an awesome year since
Speaker 1: the Rams put him in. You know, in Jared Versu
Speaker 1: and Kenyon Mitchell were our number one and number two
Speaker 1: defensive players in the draft. Yeah, well, Kenyon was a
Speaker 1: de senable and then Jared Vers, I'm like, this guy's
Speaker 1: film is like, I don't know why anyone's talking about
Speaker 1: law to over this cat. And then Kenyon was just
Speaker 1: as advertised. Kenyon definitely fell in love with the Senior Bowl,
Speaker 1: where I like because of his level of competition he
Speaker 1: played at Toledo. I think he may have Hell he
Speaker 1: went twenty second anyways, but he was talking about as
Speaker 1: a late first rounder going in, and then I thought
Speaker 1: he would have gotten into like the top twelve. You know, us,
Speaker 1: as Giants fans, justin we said, like, if we trade back,
Speaker 1: my target is like Kenyon. Mitchell h all right, quickly
Speaker 1: coach Coach of the year, Kevin O'Connell teams, you know,
Speaker 1: team with low expectations might end up with the number
Speaker 1: one seed, resurrects Sam Darnold, you know, getting that defense
Speaker 1: to fit Brian Flores. I think one of the underrated
Speaker 1: things is self evaluating and knowing when to fire guys.
Speaker 1: The Vikings firing Kevin O'Connell firing their defensive coordinator is
Speaker 1: like the difference between him and a guy like Shane Steichen.
Speaker 1: He talked about all the good offensive mind stuff. Can
Speaker 1: you run a team so Kevin O'Connell is my Coach
Speaker 1: of the Year, but I kind of don't care about
Speaker 1: coach a year at all.
Speaker 2: I think dan Quinn deserves it just what he's what.
Speaker 2: I thought this was gonna be bad. I thought Washington's like,
Speaker 2: they don't have talent, Their offense line is terrible, The
Speaker 2: higher of Cliff Kingsbury was bad. That was the main
Speaker 2: reason of pessimism. Forget what they've done with the roster,
Speaker 2: forget dan Quinn himself. I thought the higher of Cliff
Speaker 2: Kingsbury was going to tank the Commanders, and at least
Speaker 2: in year one, it literally has not. It has helped
Speaker 2: them rise above with their run game and how they've
Speaker 2: used Jaden Daniels and that defense being just good enough.
Speaker 2: They're not great, but I think dan quinn has got
Speaker 2: these guys believing, and I think that's the most important
Speaker 2: part about this. O'Connor. We knew he was a good coach,
Speaker 2: but dan Quinn kind of coming in here second second
Speaker 2: life as a head coach. I think he deserves it
Speaker 2: this year.
Speaker 1: All right, comeback player of the Year. I'm gonna go
Speaker 1: Tim Patrick shout out Tim Coffee. Yeah, okay, yes, we'll
Speaker 1: see it when we see you have a great Wednesday.
Speaker 1: Until then, this is football today.