1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 2: Hutong four Home, Oh LOI, this is painful for me. 3 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 2: I feel helpless. How could such a massive fire happened? 4 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:22,240 Speaker 2: And this could have been prevented. 5 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 3: For the past few years, Andrew Lung has lived with 6 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:30,159 Speaker 3: his elderly mother at wang Fu Court, the sight of 7 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 3: last week's devastating fire here in Hong Kong. Hong Kong 8 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 3: is waking up to some tragic news this morning. 9 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 1: Hong Kong firefighters close to completing their search of seven 10 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 1: burnt down apartment towers. 11 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 3: More than one hundred and fifty people were killed and 12 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:52,200 Speaker 3: many others, including Andrew and his mother, were displaced after 13 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 3: the blaze ripped through the housing complex, damaging seven of 14 00:00:55,840 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 3: its eight towers. Over the week, and thousands of mourners 15 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 3: from across the city gathered at the site to honor 16 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 3: the victims. At one point, the line stretched for more 17 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:11,120 Speaker 3: than a mile. They left handwritten notes and bouquets of 18 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:15,320 Speaker 3: white and yellow chrysanthemums, a flower traditionally used at funerals 19 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 3: here across the city. The sense of shock, anger and 20 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 3: sadness is palpable. When I visited wang Fu Court with 21 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:29,479 Speaker 3: our producer. Last week, the elevated walkways and sidewalks were 22 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:33,680 Speaker 3: lined with people. They just stood in silent disbelief, staring 23 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:37,679 Speaker 3: at the burnt shell of the housing complex nearby. Thousands 24 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 3: of volunteers dispersed supplies to victims, a mass mobilization not 25 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 3: seen in years. We met Andrew and others like him, 26 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 3: residents struggling to make sense of the devastation before them. 27 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 3: My cat died in the fire, and I cry for 28 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 3: two days. I saw my own health burned down. But 29 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 3: what can I do? The Hong Kong government has opened 30 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 3: an investigation into what caused the fire, but many questions 31 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 3: are still to be answered, why the building's fire alarms failed, 32 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 3: and whether the contractor renovating the complex followed proper safety protocols. 33 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 1: I think the public really wants to know whether the 34 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 1: contractor is at fault and whether the authorities have any 35 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 1: chance to have stopped it but it didn't. 36 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:26,919 Speaker 3: Shana Kwan is a Bloomberg real estate reporter based in 37 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 3: Hong Kong. 38 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 1: All these are the answers the public are urgently seeking. 39 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 3: This kind of outpouring of grief and mounting anger hasn't 40 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 3: been seen in the city since twenty twenty, when Beijing 41 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 3: imposed its National Security Law here, authorities in Hong Kong 42 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 3: have moved quickly to forestall any potential unrest. China's National 43 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 3: Security Office in the territory issued a stark warning saying 44 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 3: it will take action against anyone attempting to stir up 45 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 3: unrest or threaten national security. Over the weekend, at least 46 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 3: three people were arrested for sedition and inciting hatred toward 47 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 3: the government. 48 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 4: They're coming down hot and quick because they do not 49 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 4: want this desiable. 50 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 3: That's Bloomberg's Jenny Marsh, who oversees our coverage of Greater 51 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:14,799 Speaker 3: China's economy and politics. I spoke with Shauna and Jenny 52 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 3: to understand how this tragedy unfolded, how the fire became 53 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 3: entangled with the National Security Law, and how the government 54 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:24,079 Speaker 3: is using that law to keep order. 55 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 4: They're concerned that public grief and mourning will get out 56 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 4: of their control, and they do not want protests. They 57 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 4: don't want Hong Kong to look disorderly. 58 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 3: This is the big take Asia from Bloomberg News. I'm 59 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 3: Wanha today on the show Hong Kong's deadliest fire in decades. 60 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 3: The fury is ignited in the financial hub, how that's 61 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 3: causing unease in Beijing, and what this could mean for 62 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 3: Hong Kong's future. The death toll continues to rise in 63 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 3: Hong Kong's worst fire in nearly eighty years. Victims are 64 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 3: still being identified in the ruins of the high rise complex, 65 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:20,039 Speaker 3: with dozens still missing and thousands displaced. Like many of 66 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 3: us across the city. Bloomberg real estate reporter Shauna Kwan 67 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:27,040 Speaker 3: watched in horror as the flames tore through the massive 68 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:30,599 Speaker 3: housing complex in the northern district of Taypo last week. 69 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 1: So on Wednesday, November twenty sixth a fire began at 70 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:37,720 Speaker 1: around three pm at one of the buildings at the 71 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 1: Wongfo Court complex, and he spread quickly to the other 72 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 1: six towers in the densely built high rise complex within 73 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:50,920 Speaker 1: just a couple of hours, so a total of seven 74 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:55,919 Speaker 1: out of the eight tower complex were affected. There was 75 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 1: a massive rescue effort close to four hundred fire engines 76 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 1: to thousand and three hundred fire fighters and paramedics, but 77 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 1: the fire was not contained until about forty hours later 78 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 1: on Friday morning. 79 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 3: Now, Shana, for people who aren't here in Hong Kong, 80 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 3: I wonder if you can give us a bit of 81 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:14,799 Speaker 3: background about One Foot Court. Where is it in Hong Kong? 82 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 3: What kind of housing is it? Who lived there? 83 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:21,040 Speaker 1: It was built in the nineteen eighties as government subsidized housing, 84 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:24,799 Speaker 1: so to the growing lower middle class bias at discounted prices. 85 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 1: It consists of eight blocks with almost two thousand apartments. 86 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 1: I suppose you know in international standard that's quite compact 87 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 1: and dense, but it's very typically in Hong Kong. Because 88 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 1: home prices are so expensive in Hong Kong, it's normal 89 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:41,840 Speaker 1: for families to live together and for buildings to be 90 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:44,159 Speaker 1: built very close with each other. 91 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 3: Hong Kong's limited land and high density make it difficult 92 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 3: to demolish and rebuild aging buildings. Individual owners are often 93 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 3: responsible for maintenance. By law, private buildings over three stories 94 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:02,920 Speaker 3: and more than thirty years old must undergo mandatory inspections 95 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:07,360 Speaker 3: and renovations. Around twenty nine thousand buildings that's roughly sixty 96 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 3: percent of the city's total, have reached that threshold, and 97 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:14,599 Speaker 3: thousands more will join over the next decade. When the 98 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 3: fire broke out last week, Wang Foot Court was about 99 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 3: a year into a forty one million dollar renovation. Project 100 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:25,040 Speaker 3: to repair damage to its exterior walls. Seana. This kind 101 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:27,720 Speaker 3: of renovation is pretty common here in Hong Kong. It's 102 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 3: part of the everyday scenery here for us, but for 103 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:34,200 Speaker 3: people who aren't familiar. Can you describe what construction on 104 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 3: high rises look like here in Hong Kong? 105 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:40,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, it might be quite a strange visual for our 106 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:43,040 Speaker 1: international readers. So when you walk around Hong Kong, you 107 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 1: may see high rises as high as forty thirty or 108 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 1: even higher. Floors have bambuska folding wrapped around it and 109 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 1: on top of it usually greenland netting as well. So 110 00:06:55,560 --> 00:07:00,479 Speaker 1: when those renovation projects are ongoing, so residents inside sometimes 111 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: they cannot even open their windows, and sometimes you cannot 112 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 1: really see what's going on outside from the apartment. So 113 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 1: that might have contributed to the tragedy as well, because 114 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: the victims might not have known what's happening outside. 115 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 3: They might not have seen a fire and flames right 116 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 3: outside their windows. 117 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 1: Right. 118 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 3: There were warnings about problems with the Wang Fuk Court 119 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 3: renovation from the outset. Initial findings revealed that the protective 120 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 3: nets and foam panels used during the renovation may have 121 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 3: failed to meet fire safety standards. And that may have 122 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 3: been a factor in how quickly the blaze spread. Residents 123 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 3: of the towers told Bloomberg they raised concerns about the 124 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 3: plan to put styrofoam boards over the windows more than 125 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 3: a year ago. According to several attendees, A representative for 126 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 3: the consultancy overseeing the renovations brushed off their concerns, saying 127 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 3: that styrofoam wasn't illegal. Here's Bloomberg's Jenny Marsh. 128 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 4: They knew that the construction materials that have been put 129 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 4: up around their building. They knew that these materials were 130 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 4: no good. They had tested them themselves. They knew that 131 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 4: they were flammable, and they tried every single term to 132 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 4: raise the alarm in every single way they knew possible. 133 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 4: These residents didn't just complain to the construction company. They 134 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 4: went into the labor department, They went to the housing department, 135 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 4: They went on television. The labor department visited sixteen times. 136 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:28,240 Speaker 4: Did they not see there was diyrophone boards in people's 137 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 4: windows and no one did anything to protect them? And 138 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 4: I think that is what has made people here so angry. 139 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:39,960 Speaker 3: Bloomberg's reporting showed a series of missed opportunities to prevent 140 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:43,640 Speaker 3: the tragedy from homeowner concerns that weren't addressed to an 141 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 3: appeal to the Anti corruption agency to investigate the contractor. 142 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 3: Then there's Hong Kong's use of traditional bamboo scaffolding, which 143 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 3: has become a flashpoint. 144 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 1: Bamboo scaffolding has been such an integral part of Hong 145 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 1: Kong's landscape as well as architectural culture. It has been 146 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 1: here for over one hundred years. So using bamboo, which 147 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 1: is lighter as well cheaper and more agile as opposed 148 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 1: to metal, which is fixed. 149 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 3: Hong Kong is one of the few places in the 150 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:21,200 Speaker 3: world that routinely uses bamboo scaffolding in construction. China abandon 151 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 3: its use for residential and municipal construction a few years ago. 152 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 1: So when I talked to experts, they say that obviously 153 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 1: bamboo can be burned, but it's not easy to burn, 154 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 1: and obviously metal. 155 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 3: Is more durable than bamboo is. 156 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:39,320 Speaker 1: But as more investigation went on and in the later 157 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 1: press breathings, government officials said that it was probably the 158 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 1: nattank that first caught fire, and the rapid spread of 159 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 1: fire was mainly because of the phoam panels. 160 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:53,679 Speaker 3: In the aftermath of the fire, the government announced that 161 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 3: it would accelerate phasing out bamboo scaffolding and replacing it 162 00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 3: with metal alternatives for safety. That's a big shift from 163 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 3: an earlier plan which aimed to replace bamboo in about 164 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 3: half of public construction projects, and with the public calling 165 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:13,079 Speaker 3: for investigations and accountability, the government has taken swift action. 166 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:17,440 Speaker 1: So very quickly. The government carried out an investigation and 167 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 1: overnight they arrested three people from the contractor company for manslaughter, 168 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 1: and the Anti coruption Watchtock had also arrested a people 169 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:30,200 Speaker 1: connected to the project. The three people arrested by the 170 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 1: police were two directors of the company and one engineer 171 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:38,679 Speaker 1: for the contractor, and the a people arrested by ICAAC 172 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 1: the anti corruption Washtock in Hong Kong are relatively unknown. 173 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 1: There were concerns from the residents about the projects ultimately 174 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:52,080 Speaker 1: being awarded to the most expensive bidder. For the one 175 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 1: foot court, the price tech for that project was three 176 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 1: hundred and thirty million Hong Kong dollars, so you can 177 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 1: tell how lucrative this industry is. 178 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 3: Since those early arrests, authorities said they've apprehended more individuals 179 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 3: after the break. The tragic fire has triggered memories of 180 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 3: the divisive protests that rocked the city in twenty nineteen, 181 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:19,200 Speaker 3: how the National Security Law is being used a stamp 182 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 3: out mounting anger, and what this moment reveals about Beijing's 183 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 3: tightening grip on the city. One of the most pressing 184 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 3: demands from the public is for the government to launch 185 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 3: an independent inquiry. On Tuesday, Chief Executive John Lee announced 186 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 3: plans for an independent committee to investigate, but it's not 187 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:56,719 Speaker 3: certain it will appease the public calls for thorough investigation. 188 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 3: The committee relies on voluntary parties the patient and testimony 189 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:06,680 Speaker 3: isn't given under oath amid the cause for transparency. Another 190 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 3: issue that's come into the spotlight are the other arrests 191 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 3: authorities have made that are not connected to the construction project. 192 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 3: Bloomberg's Jenny Marsh says some of the anger and public 193 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:21,720 Speaker 3: calls for accountability have caught the attention of authorities. 194 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:24,839 Speaker 4: So the anger that we talked about decided to find 195 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 4: sort of organized expression over the weekend. On Friday, there 196 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:32,560 Speaker 4: was an Instagram account that popped up a Typo residents 197 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 4: sort of concern group, and it made four demands from 198 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:37,679 Speaker 4: the government and one of them was an independent inquiry 199 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 4: that was quickly taken down. We don't know under what circumstances, 200 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 4: but there was a student called males Quock who there 201 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:47,200 Speaker 4: sort of handing out leaflets with these four demands on 202 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:51,640 Speaker 4: and he has been arrested for sedition. Another arrest was 203 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:55,200 Speaker 4: a former district councilor, Kenneth Chung, and he again he 204 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:58,720 Speaker 4: was posting a lot on social media. He said, these 205 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:01,959 Speaker 4: volunteers and typeoe around the sports center had formed a 206 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:05,720 Speaker 4: human chain passing sort of alone materials to give to 207 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 4: the survivors of the blaze. And to him that the 208 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 4: feeling of sort of people coming together en mass on 209 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 4: the streets for a cause, and a cause which you 210 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:17,680 Speaker 4: know is holding the government to account. He was saying, 211 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 4: this reminds you of twenty nineteen. 212 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:28,520 Speaker 3: In twenty nineteen, anti government protests rocked Hong Kong. Millions 213 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 3: of demonstrators turned out to protests, with many camping out 214 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 3: on the street for months. Volunteers formed long human chains 215 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 3: across the city, handing out supplies to protesters, from water 216 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:44,760 Speaker 3: and food to hard hats and gas masks. Jenny says, 217 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:48,800 Speaker 3: for the government just evoking memories of those protests could 218 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 3: threaten the city's stability. 219 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:53,200 Speaker 4: So the government, on the one hand, is suspicious if 220 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 4: this feeling like the protest movement, But the people out 221 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 4: on the streets themselves are recognizing that hasn't been anything 222 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 4: like this since twenty nineteen, when people back then were 223 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:07,080 Speaker 4: very angry against the government, came out en mass, made 224 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 4: five demands and one of them was, you know, a 225 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 4: government inquiry. So different circumstances completely, but the parallels are emerging, 226 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 4: and I think it's a test of the government how 227 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 4: they handle this kind of morning in this sort of 228 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 4: new national security environment. 229 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 3: I was out in Taipo this weekend and what really 230 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 3: struck me was the anger and frustration that I felt 231 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 3: from people that we spoke to. It feels very different 232 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 3: from the way Hong Kong felt just even a week ago. 233 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think the tragedy has really sort of pissed 234 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 4: the calm that had come over Hong Kong since Beijing 235 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 4: imposed National Security Law in twenty twenty. You know, this 236 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 4: is a complex of high rise blocks that people saw 237 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 4: go up in flames, and most people in Hong Kong 238 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 4: live in a tower that looks a lot like this. 239 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 4: And I think everyone realized it could be them. 240 00:14:57,160 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 3: The fact that the government is moving to rest people 241 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 3: under nash Security law because they're asking for accountability. What 242 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:06,560 Speaker 3: is it that is threatening to the government. What is 243 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 3: it that they're really concerned about. 244 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 4: They're concerned that public grief and mourning will get out 245 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 4: of their control. They have people coming together on the 246 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 4: streets with a lot of emotion and anger, and they 247 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 4: do not want protests. They don't want Hong Kong to 248 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 4: look disorderly. John Lee is a former police officer. He 249 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 4: was hired to get this city under control and that's 250 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 4: what he's done. Like since he's been in power, there 251 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:36,840 Speaker 4: has not been any protest. I think there was one 252 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 4: small protest over a housing issue in northern Hong Kong 253 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 4: a year or so ago, and all those involved had 254 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 4: to apply to be in the protest that they had 255 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 4: numbers like they were in a marathon that were given 256 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:50,240 Speaker 4: out from the police. It's been that controlled. It's more 257 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 4: controlled here than in mainland China. John Ley doesn't want chooting, ping, 258 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 4: looking down and thinking that he's led it all slip 259 00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 4: away from him and it's got out of his control. Again, 260 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 4: that's not the message they want to send. 261 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 3: Chief Executive John Lee this week said that all of 262 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 3: Hong Kong is uniting to help those affected by the fire. 263 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:15,040 Speaker 3: He also warned those who dare to sabotage this commitment 264 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 3: to society, saying that authorities will take action to ensure justice. 265 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 4: They're coming down hot and quick because they do know 266 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 4: what this deniable. 267 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 3: China is just right next door and watching all of this. 268 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 2: I mean. 269 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 3: Hours after the fire broke out, Chinese presence Xi Jinping 270 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 3: expressed sympathy to the families of the victims. He urged 271 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 3: efforts to extinguish the fire, and Beijing also dispatched a 272 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 3: Central Task Force to Hong Kong for emergency response. It 273 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 3: seems that Beijing has been more hands on with this 274 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 3: disaster in Hong Kong. How has that been received by 275 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 3: locals and why is that significant? 276 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 4: It was surprising the speed at which Chi Jinpin came 277 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 4: out on the mainland. He often isn't very swift to 278 00:16:57,120 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 4: respond to tragedies in that way, so it stood out. 279 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 4: I think they told Hong Kong that the government in 280 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 4: China is watching, that they have their support in terms 281 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:08,080 Speaker 4: of if you need backup resources, they have it. But 282 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 4: I think It also is a very clear message to 283 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 4: the political leaders in Hong Kong that this was important 284 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:16,400 Speaker 4: to the central authority, that was important to handle this correctly. 285 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:19,239 Speaker 4: They really want Hong Kong leaders to sort of make 286 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 4: this a successful financial hub, to manage the city's image properly, 287 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 4: to make it attractive. And the sad thing about this 288 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:29,320 Speaker 4: too is from a global perspective, Hong Kong is back 289 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:31,160 Speaker 4: in the news for all the wrong reasons. Again. 290 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 3: Here in Hong Kong, we're now living under this new 291 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:40,119 Speaker 3: national security environment and China's tighter grip on the city. 292 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:44,400 Speaker 3: What is a government's response to the tragedy tell us 293 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:45,879 Speaker 3: about where we are right now? 294 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:49,199 Speaker 4: It sort of leaves Hong Kong in my mind in 295 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:52,239 Speaker 4: this halfway house, you know, where like John Lee is 296 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 4: trying to be open, he's briefing, he's out there meeting people. 297 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:58,119 Speaker 4: It's all a contrast with how this would be on 298 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:01,200 Speaker 4: the mainland when tragedies like this happen. There was a 299 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:04,159 Speaker 4: car ramming last year where about forty people died in 300 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 4: the mainland. That kind of thing is censored very quickly. 301 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:09,960 Speaker 4: People laid out flowers that were swept away almost immediately. 302 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:13,639 Speaker 4: There's no outlet. There's no where people can sort of 303 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 4: vent that public grief because it's too dangerous in the 304 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 4: eyes of the Communist Party to let people come together 305 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:22,160 Speaker 4: like that and start to ask questions about why did 306 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:25,200 Speaker 4: this happen. Hong Kong isn't at that point. We don't 307 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 4: have that kind of censorship apparatus. We're a long way 308 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:30,720 Speaker 4: from it. But that's going to be one of the 309 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 4: interesting things. Does Johnally open an independent inquiry? I think 310 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 4: if he does, there'll be a lot of applause and 311 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 4: it will show that the government is willing to be 312 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 4: open about this. But I think he has the way 313 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 4: the risk. You know, if there's a public inquiry and 314 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,720 Speaker 4: it finds the government was guilty, then what's the risk 315 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:52,400 Speaker 4: in that? I think we have to wait and see 316 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:56,240 Speaker 4: how China thinks. Johnny handles this, and it will depend 317 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:59,120 Speaker 4: what happens in the coming sort of days and weeks. 318 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:01,639 Speaker 4: He needs to have in a way where he doesn't 319 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:04,679 Speaker 4: come down too hard and then create even more anger 320 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:06,680 Speaker 4: than sort of boomerangs back of the government. 321 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 3: This is the Big Take Asia from Bloomberg News. I'm 322 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:20,280 Speaker 3: wanh to get more from the Big Take and unlimited 323 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 3: access to all of Bloomberg dot Com. Subscribe today at 324 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:27,400 Speaker 3: Bloomberg dot com slash podcast offer. If you liked the episode, 325 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:30,159 Speaker 3: make sure to subscribe and review The Big Take Asia 326 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:33,240 Speaker 3: wherever you listen to podcasts. It really helps people find 327 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:35,720 Speaker 3: the show. Thanks for listening and see you next time.