Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2: This week, Republican Senator jd Vance and Democrat Tim Waltz
Speaker 2: are squaring off in the first US vice presidential debate.
Speaker 2: One hot button issue that could come under the spotlight
Speaker 2: the Minnesota governor's deep ties to China. Limenhama Governor Tim
Speaker 2: Walls here Happy Chinese New Year.
Speaker 3: Tim Walls was in China as a young person at
Speaker 3: a very formative time in his life.
Speaker 2: Daniel ten Kate is Bloomberg's executive editor for Asia Economy
Speaker 2: and Government based in Hong.
Speaker 3: Kong, but started back in nineteen eighty nine. He graduated
Speaker 3: from a state college in Nebraska, and then he headed
Speaker 3: over to Hong Kong for a language training program.
Speaker 2: Waltz was in Hong Kong preparing to teach in mainland China,
Speaker 2: but after China's military crushed pro democracy protests, leaving hundreds,
Speaker 2: possibly thousands dead, many of his colleagues decided to go
Speaker 2: home instead, but Walls went ahead. He said he felt
Speaker 2: that for him it was more important than ever to
Speaker 2: go to China, and he called the deadly Tieneman Square
Speaker 2: protests an unthinkable event and.
Speaker 3: That was kind of a shocking event. For him something
Speaker 3: you definitely can forget. In fact, he got married on
Speaker 3: June four to commemorate the Tiena anniversary.
Speaker 2: Over the years, Walls continued to return to China on
Speaker 2: trips that took him to different regions of the country.
Speaker 2: He's often spoken fondly of his experiences in the country
Speaker 2: and the people he met.
Speaker 3: He's actually said, if someone tells you that they're an
Speaker 3: expert on China, they're probably not telling you the truth
Speaker 3: because it's a complex country.
Speaker 2: And his nomination comes at a critical point in US
Speaker 2: China relations.
Speaker 1: Took and JC really dangerous tracks or cash, whether that
Speaker 1: be South China, see or Taiwan or cyber etc. So
Speaker 1: it's really a very difficult time, very dangerous time.
Speaker 2: That's Lee Chang, a political science professor at the University
Speaker 2: of Hong Kong. He also spent nearly two decades in Washington,
Speaker 2: d C. As a director and senior fellow at the
Speaker 2: Brookings Institution's John L. Thornton China Center.
Speaker 1: In Washington adamsphere. We you see China as a major threat.
Speaker 1: It's a matter of war and a peace with a
Speaker 1: political leader in that position, whether China is an anime
Speaker 1: or friend or partner or competitor. No matter what you
Speaker 1: categorize China, it is very important to selve American interest
Speaker 1: to understand the Chinese philosophy.
Speaker 2: Is welcome to The Big Take Asia from Bloomberg News.
Speaker 2: I'm Wanha. Every week we take you inside some of
Speaker 2: the world's biggest and most powerful economies and the markets,
Speaker 2: haycoons and businesses that drive this ever shifting region. Today.
Speaker 2: On the show, Tim Walls's long history with China, how
Speaker 2: that could influence his stance on foreign policy and if
Speaker 2: the Democrats win the election, would Walls's connections to China
Speaker 2: be an asset or liability? Okay, Dan, So, Tim Walls
Speaker 2: first visited China in nineteen eighty nine, just fresh out
Speaker 2: of college. Give us a picture of China at that time.
Speaker 3: It certainly was a much poorer China. China that was
Speaker 3: just emerging in the world. This was recovering from years
Speaker 3: of isolation still from mal Zedong. When Doung Jhoping took
Speaker 3: over and instituted a bunch of reforms, that's when the
Speaker 3: economy really started going. So Tim Walls actually saw that
Speaker 3: from the very get go when he arrived in Hong
Speaker 3: Kong in nineteen eighty nine, China was still not opened
Speaker 3: in the way that we've seen.
Speaker 2: After his language training program in Hong Kong, Waltz went
Speaker 2: on to teach English and American history at a high
Speaker 2: school in Foshan that's in Guangdong Province in southern China,
Speaker 2: not far from Hong Kong. Walls said he was given
Speaker 2: the royal treatment at the Chinese school. His decorated apartment
Speaker 2: had a color TV and a short wave radio, luxuries
Speaker 2: at the time. He was paid six hundred and fifty
Speaker 2: n or eighty dollars a month, which was double the
Speaker 2: salary of other teachers, and he left a good impression.
Speaker 3: Yeah. The reporting there shows that Walls was known to
Speaker 3: teachers and students by Cantonese transliteration of his first name.
Speaker 3: He was very well liked, according to people there. He
Speaker 3: was treated like a celebrity. Left a good impression on everyone.
Speaker 3: In fact, people remembered him for his big smile.
Speaker 2: He must have stood out. I mean, back then in
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty nine, you probably didn't see too many white
Speaker 2: men around in southern China.
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely, I mean, by all means he stood out.
Speaker 3: He's a tall guy anyway, big, tall, midwestern white guy
Speaker 3: showing up in southern China, and by all accounts, he
Speaker 3: had a real appreciation for his students and they enjoyed
Speaker 3: having him around. And the proof is probably that he
Speaker 3: went back over and over again.
Speaker 2: Walls finished his teaching in Guangdong Province the next year,
Speaker 2: and in the following years he traveled to China frequently.
Speaker 3: He really went out and about. He wanted to explore China,
Speaker 3: and he was doing it the way that the locals
Speaker 3: would do it. He was taking the train, he was
Speaker 3: riding the buses. He was spending about a dollar a
Speaker 3: day going to local places to eat and interacting with
Speaker 3: just regular folks on the ground. This was a guy.
Speaker 3: He was into it. He was zoning it. He was
Speaker 3: really trying to see it from the ground up. And
Speaker 3: I think that has to leave an impression on you.
Speaker 2: Later, Walls and his wife, Glenn Walls, founded a company
Speaker 2: which organized summer excursions to China for American high school students.
Speaker 3: He wanted to bring other students over to China to
Speaker 3: have the same experience that he and then he spent
Speaker 3: his honeymoon with a bunch of high school kids in
Speaker 3: southern China, taking them over on a trip that was
Speaker 3: his actual honeymoon.
Speaker 2: Super romantic. I'm sure his wife was delighted.
Speaker 3: She must have been What more commitment do you need
Speaker 3: than that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's very true. Now, how do you think that
Speaker 2: experience of traveling across China like a local shape his
Speaker 2: understanding of China.
Speaker 3: I think what it does is it helps you to
Speaker 3: really know the place on a ground level. And there's
Speaker 3: so much in Washington today that we hear people talking
Speaker 3: about China who have never been to China and who
Speaker 3: don't know China. So he understands, and I think that's
Speaker 3: what living there, going there so often, traveling around you're
Speaker 3: not looking at the caricature of China. And I think
Speaker 3: this shows, you know, you got to think about Chijiping himself.
Speaker 3: He spent time in the US in Iowa as a
Speaker 3: young person and got to know the American people on
Speaker 3: that level, and so in some ways Tim Wall's had
Speaker 3: the same experience, and the importance of that is crucial
Speaker 3: when it comes to policy, particularly if you think about
Speaker 3: a war. For instance, these are the world's two biggest powers.
Speaker 3: You have a flashpoint in Taiwan when Nancy Pelosi went
Speaker 3: over to Taipei a couple of years ago. There were
Speaker 3: some real scary moments there where you had people on
Speaker 3: Chinese social media saying they should shoot a plane down.
Speaker 3: There's this real sense that eventually China and the US
Speaker 3: could be heading towards some sort of military conflict at
Speaker 3: some point, not imminently, but at some point, and so
Speaker 3: that makes it all the more important for the leaders
Speaker 3: of these two countries to actually know what it's like
Speaker 3: to live in those places, to know the people on
Speaker 3: the ground.
Speaker 2: After the break. How would Waltz's extensive personal experience in
Speaker 2: China translate into policy and the impact on already front
Speaker 2: US China relations. If Democrats take the White House.
Speaker 1: Some people in the US Congress, will Republicans think that
Speaker 1: that you have connection with China, you're doing business of China,
Speaker 1: you may be brandwashiped by China.
Speaker 2: So far, the Harris Walls campaign has made little mention
Speaker 2: of his experience in China, and they've yet to lay
Speaker 2: out how Harris or Walts would handle China policies. But
Speaker 2: throughout his career, Wals has regularly criticized China's human rights record.
Speaker 3: He's been a big advocate of human rights and democracy
Speaker 3: in China. In twenty sixteen, for example, he had what
Speaker 3: he called a quote life changing lunch with the Dalai
Speaker 3: Lama on Hong Kong two. Walls has also been quite
Speaker 3: a big advocate. He was the only House Democrat willing
Speaker 3: to support the Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act
Speaker 3: of twenty seventeen. Activists from Hong Kong were saying, back
Speaker 3: in those days, they were knocking on doors making support
Speaker 3: for this law, and no one was really joining in.
Speaker 3: And then lo and behold, they go to Walls and
Speaker 3: there's Joshua Wang, this iconic Hong Kong activists who's taking
Speaker 3: on the big powers in Beijing. And he's there and
Speaker 3: Wallster starts talking to him, and he's just blown away
Speaker 3: by how much Walls knows.
Speaker 2: Wals has also sponsored numerous resolutions that condemned China's killings
Speaker 2: in tanem And Square and support Chinese activists and lawyers.
Speaker 2: But despite his consistent advocacy for political freedom and human
Speaker 2: rights in China, Walsa said he's not necessarily a China hawk.
Speaker 1: He is not like some other power politic who he
Speaker 1: to want them to decouple with China. He strongly believes engagement.
Speaker 2: That's Professor Lee of the University of Hong Kong. Again,
Speaker 2: he says Walts's approach to China is very much aligned
Speaker 2: with the the rest of the Democratic Party.
Speaker 1: Harris and the Biden Harris administration also does not want
Speaker 1: to have completely couple and they also want to emphasize
Speaker 1: culture and education exchanges. Tim was probably will continue to
Speaker 1: put the human rights the issues, but the Democrats politician
Speaker 1: no one talked about regime change. This is not their agenda, right,
Speaker 1: They do discuss about the issue about the human rights,
Speaker 1: monor to rights, shinjiag and etc. So I think in
Speaker 1: that regard Tiam was also fitted in very well. He
Speaker 1: probably will continue to be critical, but it will be
Speaker 1: rational not to go too far and another jeopardize the
Speaker 1: whole thing.
Speaker 2: Whilst his time in China also seems to have earned
Speaker 2: him more respect there.
Speaker 1: One of the issues in your general relations may not
Speaker 1: be the ideological differences or the conflict interest, but the
Speaker 1: misunderstanding miscalculation. This is particularly by the people who have
Speaker 1: no ideas about other kanji, the way of thinking, or
Speaker 1: some of the basic knowledge. So Tim is the right
Speaker 1: person to avoid these kind of things. So I think
Speaker 1: not only Chinese public, but also Chinese leaders are willing
Speaker 1: to deal with this kind of more knowledgeable people.
Speaker 2: The professor, do you think Americans view of Tim Walls's
Speaker 2: knowledge of China and his connection to the country. Would
Speaker 2: they view it as an asset or a liability?
Speaker 1: Some people in the US Congress or particular Republicans think
Speaker 1: that you have connection with China, you're doing business with China.
Speaker 1: You may be brainwashed by China. Also, sadly, some people
Speaker 1: just claim that they are the best people to deal
Speaker 1: with China because they have no experience with China, never
Speaker 1: being China. May they have study language and have no
Speaker 1: knowledge of China, that's the qualification. Now, I ciddly think
Speaker 1: that expertise knowledge is an asset for American political leader.
Speaker 1: You again, I said that even China is the enemy,
Speaker 1: you should studied. You should know better measure about your friend,
Speaker 1: how to get along with, how to impooor relationship.
Speaker 2: For now, that relationship remains tense with the world's two
Speaker 2: biggest superpowers wrestling over issues from Taiwan to trade to technology.
Speaker 3: I think US politicians in general are wary of China.
Speaker 3: They don't trust China in particular, and they want to
Speaker 3: make sure that America stays ahead of China and has
Speaker 3: an edge on China.
Speaker 2: Here's Bloomberg's Dan ten Kate again.
Speaker 3: So Kamala Harris and Timols really believe that America should
Speaker 3: stay one step ahead of China, particularly with that vanced technology.
Speaker 3: So that means blocking China's access to high end semiconductors,
Speaker 3: high end chips that can be used for AI, certain biotech,
Speaker 3: clean energy. These are the things that they want the
Speaker 3: US to maintain an edge on. And that's, you know,
Speaker 3: for simple reasons. If they do go to war, they
Speaker 3: don't want American technology used against them. That's the sic
Speaker 3: premise of that. They do believe, however, that there should
Speaker 3: be trade, and I think where they think Trump goes
Speaker 3: too far is with the tariffs. Trump's threatening a sixty
Speaker 3: percent tariff on China right now. It'll be interesting what
Speaker 3: Tim Walls says in the debate, but Kamala Harris was
Speaker 3: saying that likening that to Trump tax on the American
Speaker 3: people and raising the quest of goods there.
Speaker 2: Now, Dan khud Walls's experience in China helps smooth the
Speaker 2: relations between Washington and Beijing.
Speaker 3: It certainly can't hurt right the problem in all of
Speaker 3: this is that in Washington, DC right now, it doesn't
Speaker 3: pay politically to say anything nice about China, even if
Speaker 3: he wants to say nice things about China. If he does,
Speaker 3: he's going to get brutally attacked by the Republicans and
Speaker 3: they're going to pounce on anything he has to say.
Speaker 3: That said, if he does get the vice presidency and
Speaker 3: Kamala Harris becomes president, that experience that he has can
Speaker 3: certainly play a role. We know when people get into
Speaker 3: power that they have much more flexibility than when they're
Speaker 3: in the campaign period. So we probably just haven't seen
Speaker 3: and we probably won't hear really what he thinks about
Speaker 3: China until he's actually in the office.
Speaker 2: This is The Big Take Asia from Bloomberg News. I'm wanh.
Speaker 2: This episode was produced by Young Young, Naomi, and Jessica Beck.
Speaker 2: It was mixed by Blake Maples and fact checked by Young.
Speaker 2: It was edited by Caitlin Kenny and Daniel tim Kate.
Speaker 2: Nicole Beemster Bower is our executive producer, Elizabeth Ponso is
Speaker 2: our senior editor, and Sage Bauman is Bloomberg's head of Podcasts.
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