WEBVTT - Tim Walz’s Deep China Ties Could Spell Trouble for Democrats

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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<v Speaker 2>This week, Republican Senator jd Vance and Democrat Tim Waltz

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<v Speaker 2>are squaring off in the first US vice presidential debate.

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<v Speaker 2>One hot button issue that could come under the spotlight

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<v Speaker 2>the Minnesota governor's deep ties to China. Limenhama Governor Tim

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<v Speaker 2>Walls here Happy Chinese New Year.

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<v Speaker 3>Tim Walls was in China as a young person at

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<v Speaker 3>a very formative time in his life.

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<v Speaker 2>Daniel ten Kate is Bloomberg's executive editor for Asia Economy

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<v Speaker 2>and Government based in Hong.

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<v Speaker 3>Kong, but started back in nineteen eighty nine. He graduated

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<v Speaker 3>from a state college in Nebraska, and then he headed

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<v Speaker 3>over to Hong Kong for a language training program.

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<v Speaker 2>Waltz was in Hong Kong preparing to teach in mainland China,

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<v Speaker 2>but after China's military crushed pro democracy protests, leaving hundreds,

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<v Speaker 2>possibly thousands dead, many of his colleagues decided to go

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<v Speaker 2>home instead, but Walls went ahead. He said he felt

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<v Speaker 2>that for him it was more important than ever to

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<v Speaker 2>go to China, and he called the deadly Tieneman Square

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<v Speaker 2>protests an unthinkable event and.

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<v Speaker 3>That was kind of a shocking event. For him something

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<v Speaker 3>you definitely can forget. In fact, he got married on

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<v Speaker 3>June four to commemorate the Tiena anniversary.

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<v Speaker 2>Over the years, Walls continued to return to China on

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<v Speaker 2>trips that took him to different regions of the country.

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<v Speaker 2>He's often spoken fondly of his experiences in the country

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<v Speaker 2>and the people he met.

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<v Speaker 3>He's actually said, if someone tells you that they're an

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<v Speaker 3>expert on China, they're probably not telling you the truth

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<v Speaker 3>because it's a complex country.

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<v Speaker 2>And his nomination comes at a critical point in US

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<v Speaker 2>China relations.

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<v Speaker 1>Took and JC really dangerous tracks or cash, whether that

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<v Speaker 1>be South China, see or Taiwan or cyber etc. So

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<v Speaker 1>it's really a very difficult time, very dangerous time.

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<v Speaker 2>That's Lee Chang, a political science professor at the University

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<v Speaker 2>of Hong Kong. He also spent nearly two decades in Washington,

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<v Speaker 2>d C. As a director and senior fellow at the

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<v Speaker 2>Brookings Institution's John L. Thornton China Center.

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<v Speaker 1>In Washington adamsphere. We you see China as a major threat.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a matter of war and a peace with a

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<v Speaker 1>political leader in that position, whether China is an anime

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<v Speaker 1>or friend or partner or competitor. No matter what you

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<v Speaker 1>categorize China, it is very important to selve American interest

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<v Speaker 1>to understand the Chinese philosophy.

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<v Speaker 2>Is welcome to The Big Take Asia from Bloomberg News.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Wanha. Every week we take you inside some of

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<v Speaker 2>the world's biggest and most powerful economies and the markets,

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<v Speaker 2>haycoons and businesses that drive this ever shifting region. Today.

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<v Speaker 2>On the show, Tim Walls's long history with China, how

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<v Speaker 2>that could influence his stance on foreign policy and if

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<v Speaker 2>the Democrats win the election, would Walls's connections to China

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<v Speaker 2>be an asset or liability? Okay, Dan, So, Tim Walls

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<v Speaker 2>first visited China in nineteen eighty nine, just fresh out

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<v Speaker 2>of college. Give us a picture of China at that time.

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<v Speaker 3>It certainly was a much poorer China. China that was

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<v Speaker 3>just emerging in the world. This was recovering from years

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<v Speaker 3>of isolation still from mal Zedong. When Doung Jhoping took

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<v Speaker 3>over and instituted a bunch of reforms, that's when the

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<v Speaker 3>economy really started going. So Tim Walls actually saw that

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<v Speaker 3>from the very get go when he arrived in Hong

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<v Speaker 3>Kong in nineteen eighty nine, China was still not opened

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<v Speaker 3>in the way that we've seen.

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<v Speaker 2>After his language training program in Hong Kong, Waltz went

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<v Speaker 2>on to teach English and American history at a high

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<v Speaker 2>school in Foshan that's in Guangdong Province in southern China,

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<v Speaker 2>not far from Hong Kong. Walls said he was given

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<v Speaker 2>the royal treatment at the Chinese school. His decorated apartment

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<v Speaker 2>had a color TV and a short wave radio, luxuries

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<v Speaker 2>at the time. He was paid six hundred and fifty

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<v Speaker 2>n or eighty dollars a month, which was double the

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<v Speaker 2>salary of other teachers, and he left a good impression.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah. The reporting there shows that Walls was known to

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<v Speaker 3>teachers and students by Cantonese transliteration of his first name.

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<v Speaker 3>He was very well liked, according to people there. He

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<v Speaker 3>was treated like a celebrity. Left a good impression on everyone.

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<v Speaker 3>In fact, people remembered him for his big smile.

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<v Speaker 2>He must have stood out. I mean, back then in

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen eighty nine, you probably didn't see too many white

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<v Speaker 2>men around in southern China.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, definitely, I mean, by all means he stood out.

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<v Speaker 3>He's a tall guy anyway, big, tall, midwestern white guy

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<v Speaker 3>showing up in southern China, and by all accounts, he

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<v Speaker 3>had a real appreciation for his students and they enjoyed

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<v Speaker 3>having him around. And the proof is probably that he

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<v Speaker 3>went back over and over again.

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<v Speaker 2>Walls finished his teaching in Guangdong Province the next year,

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<v Speaker 2>and in the following years he traveled to China frequently.

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<v Speaker 3>He really went out and about. He wanted to explore China,

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<v Speaker 3>and he was doing it the way that the locals

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<v Speaker 3>would do it. He was taking the train, he was

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<v Speaker 3>riding the buses. He was spending about a dollar a

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<v Speaker 3>day going to local places to eat and interacting with

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<v Speaker 3>just regular folks on the ground. This was a guy.

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<v Speaker 3>He was into it. He was zoning it. He was

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<v Speaker 3>really trying to see it from the ground up. And

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<v Speaker 3>I think that has to leave an impression on you.

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<v Speaker 2>Later, Walls and his wife, Glenn Walls, founded a company

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<v Speaker 2>which organized summer excursions to China for American high school students.

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<v Speaker 3>He wanted to bring other students over to China to

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<v Speaker 3>have the same experience that he and then he spent

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<v Speaker 3>his honeymoon with a bunch of high school kids in

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<v Speaker 3>southern China, taking them over on a trip that was

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<v Speaker 3>his actual honeymoon.

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<v Speaker 2>Super romantic. I'm sure his wife was delighted.

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<v Speaker 3>She must have been What more commitment do you need

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<v Speaker 3>than that?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's very true. Now, how do you think that

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<v Speaker 2>experience of traveling across China like a local shape his

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<v Speaker 2>understanding of China.

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<v Speaker 3>I think what it does is it helps you to

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<v Speaker 3>really know the place on a ground level. And there's

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<v Speaker 3>so much in Washington today that we hear people talking

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<v Speaker 3>about China who have never been to China and who

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<v Speaker 3>don't know China. So he understands, and I think that's

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<v Speaker 3>what living there, going there so often, traveling around you're

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<v Speaker 3>not looking at the caricature of China. And I think

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<v Speaker 3>this shows, you know, you got to think about Chijiping himself.

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<v Speaker 3>He spent time in the US in Iowa as a

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<v Speaker 3>young person and got to know the American people on

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<v Speaker 3>that level, and so in some ways Tim Wall's had

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<v Speaker 3>the same experience, and the importance of that is crucial

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<v Speaker 3>when it comes to policy, particularly if you think about

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<v Speaker 3>a war. For instance, these are the world's two biggest powers.

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<v Speaker 3>You have a flashpoint in Taiwan when Nancy Pelosi went

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<v Speaker 3>over to Taipei a couple of years ago. There were

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<v Speaker 3>some real scary moments there where you had people on

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<v Speaker 3>Chinese social media saying they should shoot a plane down.

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<v Speaker 3>There's this real sense that eventually China and the US

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<v Speaker 3>could be heading towards some sort of military conflict at

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<v Speaker 3>some point, not imminently, but at some point, and so

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<v Speaker 3>that makes it all the more important for the leaders

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<v Speaker 3>of these two countries to actually know what it's like

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<v Speaker 3>to live in those places, to know the people on

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<v Speaker 3>the ground.

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<v Speaker 2>After the break. How would Waltz's extensive personal experience in

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<v Speaker 2>China translate into policy and the impact on already front

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<v Speaker 2>US China relations. If Democrats take the White House.

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<v Speaker 1>Some people in the US Congress, will Republicans think that

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<v Speaker 1>that you have connection with China, you're doing business of China,

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<v Speaker 1>you may be brandwashiped by China.

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<v Speaker 2>So far, the Harris Walls campaign has made little mention

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<v Speaker 2>of his experience in China, and they've yet to lay

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<v Speaker 2>out how Harris or Walts would handle China policies. But

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<v Speaker 2>throughout his career, Wals has regularly criticized China's human rights record.

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<v Speaker 3>He's been a big advocate of human rights and democracy

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<v Speaker 3>in China. In twenty sixteen, for example, he had what

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<v Speaker 3>he called a quote life changing lunch with the Dalai

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<v Speaker 3>Lama on Hong Kong two. Walls has also been quite

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<v Speaker 3>a big advocate. He was the only House Democrat willing

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<v Speaker 3>to support the Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act

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<v Speaker 3>of twenty seventeen. Activists from Hong Kong were saying, back

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<v Speaker 3>in those days, they were knocking on doors making support

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<v Speaker 3>for this law, and no one was really joining in.

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<v Speaker 3>And then lo and behold, they go to Walls and

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<v Speaker 3>there's Joshua Wang, this iconic Hong Kong activists who's taking

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<v Speaker 3>on the big powers in Beijing. And he's there and

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<v Speaker 3>Wallster starts talking to him, and he's just blown away

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<v Speaker 3>by how much Walls knows.

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<v Speaker 2>Wals has also sponsored numerous resolutions that condemned China's killings

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<v Speaker 2>in tanem And Square and support Chinese activists and lawyers.

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<v Speaker 2>But despite his consistent advocacy for political freedom and human

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<v Speaker 2>rights in China, Walsa said he's not necessarily a China hawk.

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<v Speaker 1>He is not like some other power politic who he

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<v Speaker 1>to want them to decouple with China. He strongly believes engagement.

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<v Speaker 2>That's Professor Lee of the University of Hong Kong. Again,

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<v Speaker 2>he says Walts's approach to China is very much aligned

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<v Speaker 2>with the the rest of the Democratic Party.

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<v Speaker 1>Harris and the Biden Harris administration also does not want

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<v Speaker 1>to have completely couple and they also want to emphasize

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<v Speaker 1>culture and education exchanges. Tim was probably will continue to

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<v Speaker 1>put the human rights the issues, but the Democrats politician

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<v Speaker 1>no one talked about regime change. This is not their agenda, right,

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<v Speaker 1>They do discuss about the issue about the human rights,

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<v Speaker 1>monor to rights, shinjiag and etc. So I think in

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<v Speaker 1>that regard Tiam was also fitted in very well. He

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<v Speaker 1>probably will continue to be critical, but it will be

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<v Speaker 1>rational not to go too far and another jeopardize the

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<v Speaker 1>whole thing.

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<v Speaker 2>Whilst his time in China also seems to have earned

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<v Speaker 2>him more respect there.

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<v Speaker 1>One of the issues in your general relations may not

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<v Speaker 1>be the ideological differences or the conflict interest, but the

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<v Speaker 1>misunderstanding miscalculation. This is particularly by the people who have

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<v Speaker 1>no ideas about other kanji, the way of thinking, or

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<v Speaker 1>some of the basic knowledge. So Tim is the right

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<v Speaker 1>person to avoid these kind of things. So I think

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<v Speaker 1>not only Chinese public, but also Chinese leaders are willing

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<v Speaker 1>to deal with this kind of more knowledgeable people.

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<v Speaker 2>The professor, do you think Americans view of Tim Walls's

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<v Speaker 2>knowledge of China and his connection to the country. Would

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<v Speaker 2>they view it as an asset or a liability?

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<v Speaker 1>Some people in the US Congress or particular Republicans think

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<v Speaker 1>that you have connection with China, you're doing business with China.

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<v Speaker 1>You may be brainwashed by China. Also, sadly, some people

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<v Speaker 1>just claim that they are the best people to deal

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<v Speaker 1>with China because they have no experience with China, never

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<v Speaker 1>being China. May they have study language and have no

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<v Speaker 1>knowledge of China, that's the qualification. Now, I ciddly think

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<v Speaker 1>that expertise knowledge is an asset for American political leader.

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<v Speaker 1>You again, I said that even China is the enemy,

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<v Speaker 1>you should studied. You should know better measure about your friend,

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<v Speaker 1>how to get along with, how to impooor relationship.

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<v Speaker 2>For now, that relationship remains tense with the world's two

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<v Speaker 2>biggest superpowers wrestling over issues from Taiwan to trade to technology.

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<v Speaker 3>I think US politicians in general are wary of China.

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<v Speaker 3>They don't trust China in particular, and they want to

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<v Speaker 3>make sure that America stays ahead of China and has

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<v Speaker 3>an edge on China.

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<v Speaker 2>Here's Bloomberg's Dan ten Kate again.

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<v Speaker 3>So Kamala Harris and Timols really believe that America should

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<v Speaker 3>stay one step ahead of China, particularly with that vanced technology.

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<v Speaker 3>So that means blocking China's access to high end semiconductors,

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<v Speaker 3>high end chips that can be used for AI, certain biotech,

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<v Speaker 3>clean energy. These are the things that they want the

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<v Speaker 3>US to maintain an edge on. And that's, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>for simple reasons. If they do go to war, they

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<v Speaker 3>don't want American technology used against them. That's the sic

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<v Speaker 3>premise of that. They do believe, however, that there should

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<v Speaker 3>be trade, and I think where they think Trump goes

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<v Speaker 3>too far is with the tariffs. Trump's threatening a sixty

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<v Speaker 3>percent tariff on China right now. It'll be interesting what

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<v Speaker 3>Tim Walls says in the debate, but Kamala Harris was

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<v Speaker 3>saying that likening that to Trump tax on the American

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<v Speaker 3>people and raising the quest of goods there.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, Dan khud Walls's experience in China helps smooth the

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<v Speaker 2>relations between Washington and Beijing.

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<v Speaker 3>It certainly can't hurt right the problem in all of

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<v Speaker 3>this is that in Washington, DC right now, it doesn't

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<v Speaker 3>pay politically to say anything nice about China, even if

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<v Speaker 3>he wants to say nice things about China. If he does,

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<v Speaker 3>he's going to get brutally attacked by the Republicans and

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<v Speaker 3>they're going to pounce on anything he has to say.

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<v Speaker 3>That said, if he does get the vice presidency and

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<v Speaker 3>Kamala Harris becomes president, that experience that he has can

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<v Speaker 3>certainly play a role. We know when people get into

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<v Speaker 3>power that they have much more flexibility than when they're

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<v Speaker 3>in the campaign period. So we probably just haven't seen

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<v Speaker 3>and we probably won't hear really what he thinks about

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<v Speaker 3>China until he's actually in the office.

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<v Speaker 2>This is The Big Take Asia from Bloomberg News. I'm wanh.

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<v Speaker 2>This episode was produced by Young Young, Naomi, and Jessica Beck.

0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:29.520
<v Speaker 2>It was mixed by Blake Maples and fact checked by Young.

0:14:30.040 --> 0:14:32.640
<v Speaker 2>It was edited by Caitlin Kenny and Daniel tim Kate.

0:14:33.200 --> 0:14:37.000
<v Speaker 2>Nicole Beemster Bower is our executive producer, Elizabeth Ponso is

0:14:37.040 --> 0:14:40.560
<v Speaker 2>our senior editor, and Sage Bauman is Bloomberg's head of Podcasts.

0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:44.080
<v Speaker 2>Please follow and review The Big Take Asia wherever you

0:14:44.160 --> 0:14:47.280
<v Speaker 2>listen to podcasts. It really helps new listeners find the show.

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<v Speaker 2>See you next time.