1 00:00:15,066 --> 00:00:21,996 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hey Lost Hills listeners, it's Dana. I wanted to 2 00:00:22,036 --> 00:00:24,156 Speaker 1: let you know that you can hear the entire new 3 00:00:24,196 --> 00:00:27,936 Speaker 1: season of Lost Hills ad-free along with other great binge 4 00:00:27,986 --> 00:00:32,206 Speaker 1: listens by becoming a Pushkin Plus subscriber. Find Pushkin Plus 5 00:00:32,406 --> 00:00:35,406 Speaker 1: on the Lost Hills show page in Apple Podcasts or 6 00:00:35,446 --> 00:00:38,456 Speaker 1: at pushkin.fm slash plus. 7 00:00:42,776 --> 00:00:46,596 Speaker 2: Nearly 25 years ago, Diners Club introduced the first executive 8 00:00:46,616 --> 00:00:51,816 Speaker 2: credit card. Today, around the world, Diners Club is still 9 00:00:51,896 --> 00:00:52,906 Speaker 2: the first card. 10 00:00:54,926 --> 00:00:58,966 Speaker 1: In the 1970s, the accessory to a life of luxury, travel, 11 00:00:59,066 --> 00:01:03,336 Speaker 1: and access was the Diners Club card, at least if 12 00:01:03,356 --> 00:01:04,536 Speaker 1: you believe its advertisements. 13 00:01:06,486 --> 00:01:10,676 Speaker 2: That was the kind of life that Mickey Dora wanted. 14 00:01:10,636 --> 00:01:11,656 Speaker 3: And felt he deserved. 15 00:01:31,146 --> 00:01:34,686 Speaker 2: A diner's club member. If you want to be one, 16 00:01:34,746 --> 00:01:36,426 Speaker 2: call 800-525-7000. 17 00:01:40,376 --> 00:01:42,816 Speaker 1: Back in the late 50s, Mickey had applied for a 18 00:01:42,856 --> 00:01:46,636 Speaker 1: diner's club card. He studied a book called Credit Cardsmanship 19 00:01:47,076 --> 00:01:50,216 Speaker 1: about how to bilk credit card companies and reap the rewards. 20 00:01:51,316 --> 00:01:54,556 Speaker 1: With the world awash in plastic, it was almost too 21 00:01:54,716 --> 00:01:57,516 Speaker 1: easy to take out a bunch of cards, spend freely, 22 00:01:57,536 --> 00:02:01,026 Speaker 1: and spend money. and split for a new life far, 23 00:02:01,146 --> 00:02:05,786 Speaker 1: far away. By the early 70s, Mickey had set his 24 00:02:05,846 --> 00:02:09,286 Speaker 1: sights on New Zealand. That would be a good place 25 00:02:09,386 --> 00:02:13,966 Speaker 1: to sit out World War III. Visiting New Zealand, he 26 00:02:14,026 --> 00:02:18,086 Speaker 1: wrote to Linda Kai, quote, I found it, the perfect 27 00:02:18,166 --> 00:02:21,846 Speaker 1: place for our future together. Finally, a peaceful country to 28 00:02:21,886 --> 00:02:27,086 Speaker 1: live in, friendly people, and good surf. I love you, Mickey. 29 00:02:29,456 --> 00:02:33,036 Speaker 1: The only problem was, he was in New Zealand with 30 00:02:33,076 --> 00:02:37,296 Speaker 1: his other girlfriend, Marsha. And Linda, back at home in 31 00:02:37,336 --> 00:02:41,076 Speaker 1: Los Angeles, had taken up with someone else. And not 32 00:02:41,156 --> 00:02:47,536 Speaker 1: just anyone. Mickey's rival. Who is an even more flamboyant 33 00:02:47,616 --> 00:02:54,306 Speaker 1: con artist than Mickey was. I'm Dana Goodyear, and this 34 00:02:54,846 --> 00:02:55,826 Speaker 1: is Lost Hills. 35 00:02:58,026 --> 00:03:00,926 Speaker 3: Episode 8, a.k.a. 36 00:03:01,766 --> 00:03:04,106 Speaker 1: Fugitive. 37 00:03:32,366 --> 00:03:32,886 Speaker 3: Linda? 38 00:03:33,126 --> 00:03:33,426 Speaker 4: Hi. 39 00:03:34,006 --> 00:03:36,626 Speaker 3: No, it's not Linda. I just work here. 40 00:03:37,686 --> 00:03:40,036 Speaker 4: You're kidding me, because I recognize you. 41 00:03:40,136 --> 00:03:41,056 Speaker 1: I'm Dana Goodyear. 42 00:03:41,856 --> 00:03:44,516 Speaker 3: You guys are late. 43 00:03:45,016 --> 00:03:48,836 Speaker 1: Linda Kai is in her 70s now. She's married, to 44 00:03:48,876 --> 00:03:51,476 Speaker 1: a surfer of course, and lives in a cute mobile 45 00:03:51,516 --> 00:03:54,146 Speaker 1: home 10 minutes from the ocean in Ventura County. 46 00:03:55,706 --> 00:03:59,926 Speaker 3: Oh, gosh. I thought we could... They're all mine. 47 00:04:00,356 --> 00:04:00,876 Speaker 1: You made these? 48 00:04:00,936 --> 00:04:03,176 Speaker 2: Yeah. Wow. 49 00:04:03,396 --> 00:04:05,276 Speaker 3: Yeah, I just finished this one. This is my friend's 50 00:04:05,316 --> 00:04:08,716 Speaker 3: dog that we watch all the time. We babysit her 51 00:04:08,756 --> 00:04:10,876 Speaker 3: when they go out on their boat. And she's a 52 00:04:10,876 --> 00:04:11,236 Speaker 3: wonderful dog. 53 00:04:13,046 --> 00:04:15,836 Speaker 1: She's an artist. Her place is full of her paintings, 54 00:04:16,326 --> 00:04:21,666 Speaker 1: mostly surf breaks. But there are also photographs, including one 55 00:04:21,706 --> 00:04:25,126 Speaker 1: of Linda in her 20s in a camper van somewhere 56 00:04:25,146 --> 00:04:28,566 Speaker 1: in the world. Her dirty blonde hair is pulled into 57 00:04:28,606 --> 00:04:31,406 Speaker 1: a thick braid and there's a hard look in her eye. 58 00:04:33,346 --> 00:04:36,416 Speaker 1: Back when Linda met Mickey Dora, she'd been 22, living 59 00:04:36,496 --> 00:04:39,066 Speaker 1: on her own in a VW van at the beach. 60 00:04:40,306 --> 00:04:45,436 Speaker 1: Mickey was 37. Just like Diane before her, when she 61 00:04:45,496 --> 00:04:48,736 Speaker 1: was young and innocent and Mickey was a full-on adult, 62 00:04:49,276 --> 00:04:53,416 Speaker 1: Linda was Mickey's little secret. He gave her a key 63 00:04:53,496 --> 00:04:56,796 Speaker 1: to his house on Gretna Green in Brentwood. The lair 64 00:04:56,896 --> 00:05:00,796 Speaker 1: filled with strange treasures and used airline tickets suggesting a 65 00:05:00,876 --> 00:05:04,296 Speaker 1: jet-setting world traveler. But he didn't take her out with 66 00:05:04,336 --> 00:05:09,976 Speaker 1: his friends. And often, Mickey spent the night elsewhere. And sometimes, 67 00:05:10,656 --> 00:05:11,396 Speaker 1: Linda did too. 68 00:05:12,656 --> 00:05:16,886 Speaker 3: There's another wrangler in this mix, Don Wilson, who set 69 00:05:16,966 --> 00:05:19,886 Speaker 3: the thing alight. Now, if it wasn't for this other character, 70 00:05:19,906 --> 00:05:23,186 Speaker 3: this is not all about Mickey. Because Don jumps into 71 00:05:23,206 --> 00:05:25,906 Speaker 3: the fray and, you know, things get nasty. 72 00:05:29,026 --> 00:05:32,546 Speaker 1: In 2015, Linda published a book about her adventures. She 73 00:05:32,606 --> 00:05:36,946 Speaker 1: called it The Surf Sting, Travels with Mickey Dora, Da Cat, 74 00:05:37,426 --> 00:05:43,416 Speaker 1: and Don Wilson, Pirate Captain. Don Wilson was another Malibu surfer. 75 00:05:43,956 --> 00:05:47,676 Speaker 1: Don and Mickey had been friends, and then they'd become enemies. 76 00:05:48,916 --> 00:05:51,016 Speaker 3: I didn't know it at the time, but those two 77 00:05:51,356 --> 00:05:54,366 Speaker 3: had a big fallout at Malibu at one time because 78 00:05:54,506 --> 00:05:57,266 Speaker 3: Mickey hated Don because he would show up in pink Cadillacs. 79 00:05:58,216 --> 00:06:00,876 Speaker 3: and fill his car full of girls and go drive off. 80 00:06:02,716 --> 00:06:04,926 Speaker 1: Linda happened to meet Don at a time when she 81 00:06:04,966 --> 00:06:07,526 Speaker 1: and Mickey were temporarily split up. 82 00:06:09,506 --> 00:06:13,026 Speaker 3: Don Wilson came along when Mickey kind of threw me 83 00:06:13,086 --> 00:06:17,206 Speaker 3: out of the apartment. I was at the beach, at 84 00:06:17,266 --> 00:06:20,216 Speaker 3: State Beach, laying in the sand, just kind of like, 85 00:06:20,276 --> 00:06:22,796 Speaker 3: I'm not really, I'm a mess now, you know, I 86 00:06:22,816 --> 00:06:27,476 Speaker 3: blew it. And I heard two guys sitting next to me, 87 00:06:27,496 --> 00:06:30,356 Speaker 3: kind of a little bit further over, a couple towels over, 88 00:06:30,416 --> 00:06:30,696 Speaker 3: you know. 89 00:06:32,696 --> 00:06:35,296 Speaker 4: These two guys were talking about a friend of Linda's. 90 00:06:35,856 --> 00:06:37,336 Speaker 4: So Linda piped up. 91 00:06:38,596 --> 00:06:40,726 Speaker 3: And they both looked over at me, that was Don Wilson. 92 00:06:41,806 --> 00:06:44,966 Speaker 3: And they looked over at me and they said, where 93 00:06:44,986 --> 00:06:47,826 Speaker 3: the hell are you? And I said, oh, I was 94 00:06:47,926 --> 00:06:51,786 Speaker 3: Mickey's girlfriend. Boy, Don's head's come up as a sand 95 00:06:51,826 --> 00:06:54,986 Speaker 3: like this, you know, like what? And he says, hey, 96 00:06:55,696 --> 00:06:58,596 Speaker 3: He says, I'm having a barbecue tonight. He says, come 97 00:06:58,656 --> 00:07:01,666 Speaker 3: on up. And there it was. I went up to 98 00:07:01,676 --> 00:07:02,346 Speaker 3: the barbecue. 99 00:07:04,426 --> 00:07:09,986 Speaker 1: Don Wilson, a.k.a.? The Pirate Captain. And why was he 100 00:07:10,006 --> 00:07:10,926 Speaker 1: called the Pirate Captain? 101 00:07:12,166 --> 00:07:15,726 Speaker 3: Well, it should be obvious. He was a thief. 102 00:07:18,906 --> 00:07:21,026 Speaker 1: For much of the decade that Linda was with Mickey, 103 00:07:21,226 --> 00:07:25,486 Speaker 1: she was also intermittently with the Pirate Captain. She even 104 00:07:25,586 --> 00:07:29,256 Speaker 1: married Don at one point for a year. Playing tug-of-war 105 00:07:29,316 --> 00:07:32,696 Speaker 1: over Linda, the two men became sworn enemies. 106 00:07:33,516 --> 00:07:38,376 Speaker 3: Don was complete opposite of Mickey. Mickey was dark-haired and dark-handsome, 107 00:07:38,496 --> 00:07:47,236 Speaker 3: this heavy, heavy Hungarian darkness, beautiful, you know. Don was Scottish, fair-skinned, 108 00:07:48,056 --> 00:07:55,406 Speaker 3: blue eyes, and white, white hair. Not gray, but Really white. 109 00:07:56,326 --> 00:08:00,026 Speaker 3: Now Don was not the better surfer, but Don was 110 00:08:00,086 --> 00:08:00,826 Speaker 3: the better talker. 111 00:08:02,806 --> 00:08:06,886 Speaker 1: But in some respects, Linda's two boyfriends were incredibly alike. 112 00:08:07,546 --> 00:08:10,276 Speaker 1: They were both con men. Don had even been to 113 00:08:10,436 --> 00:08:11,676 Speaker 1: prison for his schemes. 114 00:08:13,476 --> 00:08:16,856 Speaker 3: He was a famous rubber check writer. I heard a 115 00:08:16,876 --> 00:08:20,216 Speaker 3: story where he invited everybody to a big party in 116 00:08:20,256 --> 00:08:23,586 Speaker 3: a big fancy restaurant. and then wrote a big, big 117 00:08:23,646 --> 00:08:26,836 Speaker 3: check to the waiter. And then evidently I heard that 118 00:08:26,876 --> 00:08:28,816 Speaker 3: the waiter ran out right away and put a down 119 00:08:28,856 --> 00:08:31,496 Speaker 3: payment on a car. I was like, wow, you know. 120 00:08:31,796 --> 00:08:36,946 Speaker 3: But then nothing was paid for. It just bounced. Don 121 00:08:36,986 --> 00:08:40,066 Speaker 3: came from a very wealthy family in the Palisades. His 122 00:08:40,146 --> 00:08:44,966 Speaker 3: dad owned most of Santa Monica and Montana Boulevard, where 123 00:08:44,986 --> 00:08:47,716 Speaker 3: all the boutiques are. And I think Mickey hated this. 124 00:08:49,086 --> 00:08:52,476 Speaker 3: because I think Mickey's dad was very wealthy also, but 125 00:08:52,526 --> 00:08:57,176 Speaker 3: Mickey had no chance to touch any of the money. 126 00:08:59,536 --> 00:09:04,196 Speaker 1: In Linda, the pirate captain saw an opportunity to mess 127 00:09:04,336 --> 00:09:05,316 Speaker 1: with the cat. 128 00:09:07,386 --> 00:09:11,846 Speaker 4: So when you meet Don, the thing that gets his 129 00:09:11,906 --> 00:09:15,186 Speaker 4: attention is that you say, oh, I'm Mickey's ex. 130 00:09:15,226 --> 00:09:15,296 Speaker 2: Yes. 131 00:09:15,666 --> 00:09:20,786 Speaker 3: Yes. da-da-da-da, here comes the bugles and horns. He goes, 132 00:09:20,846 --> 00:09:21,666 Speaker 3: this is going to work. 133 00:09:24,946 --> 00:09:28,826 Speaker 1: In 1972, Mickey was still stringing Linda along about going 134 00:09:28,866 --> 00:09:31,646 Speaker 1: to New Zealand. He was spending a lot of time 135 00:09:31,706 --> 00:09:37,146 Speaker 1: traveling with his other girlfriend, a non-surfer named Marsha. She 136 00:09:37,196 --> 00:09:41,276 Speaker 1: was the heiress to a gold mine fortune. In her book, 137 00:09:41,556 --> 00:09:44,596 Speaker 1: Linda writes that while she was waiting on Mickey, Don 138 00:09:44,636 --> 00:09:47,936 Speaker 1: was arrested for writing bad checks. He jumped bail and 139 00:09:47,996 --> 00:09:52,636 Speaker 1: fled to Mexico. From there, Don flew to Tahiti and 140 00:09:52,696 --> 00:09:56,856 Speaker 1: told Linda to meet him. Linda had turned Don on 141 00:09:56,916 --> 00:10:00,036 Speaker 1: to Mickey's book about credit card fraud, so with a 142 00:10:00,116 --> 00:10:03,406 Speaker 1: bunch of new plastic, they went on a world tour. 143 00:10:04,766 --> 00:10:07,426 Speaker 3: Don was a champion on this because you could tell 144 00:10:07,486 --> 00:10:12,766 Speaker 3: Mickey flailed a bit. He was a bit nervous. It 145 00:10:12,786 --> 00:10:15,686 Speaker 3: wasn't really good. But with Don, he was a champion. 146 00:10:15,906 --> 00:10:19,306 Speaker 3: It was just like, come on, let's do this. Let's 147 00:10:19,326 --> 00:10:20,706 Speaker 3: do this. Let's get this going. 148 00:10:22,446 --> 00:10:26,596 Speaker 1: Traveling with Don, Linda doctored credit cards, license plates, and 149 00:10:26,636 --> 00:10:30,876 Speaker 1: government documents. But when Linda and Don got back to California, 150 00:10:31,436 --> 00:10:35,136 Speaker 1: Linda fell in with Mickey again. She and Don parted ways, 151 00:10:35,376 --> 00:10:38,606 Speaker 1: and she didn't hear from him. Until one day, she 152 00:10:38,646 --> 00:10:41,166 Speaker 1: went to her parents' house in the valley, and there 153 00:10:41,206 --> 00:10:45,826 Speaker 1: was a letter from him. From prison. When she visited Don, 154 00:10:45,906 --> 00:10:48,836 Speaker 1: she says, he blamed Mickey for his arrest. 155 00:10:50,636 --> 00:10:54,256 Speaker 3: This whole story, I gotta tell you right now, was 156 00:10:54,716 --> 00:10:59,686 Speaker 3: never about love. Now, I might have thought so. being 157 00:10:59,846 --> 00:11:02,766 Speaker 3: young and naive and stupid, but this was never about love. 158 00:11:02,866 --> 00:11:05,246 Speaker 3: This was never about like, oh, Mickey's going to overpower 159 00:11:05,266 --> 00:11:07,856 Speaker 3: me with his love or Don's going to love me 160 00:11:07,896 --> 00:11:10,656 Speaker 3: and romance me and, you know, take me away. This 161 00:11:10,736 --> 00:11:11,956 Speaker 3: was about rivalry. 162 00:11:14,336 --> 00:11:15,116 Speaker 1: And you were a pawn. 163 00:11:15,216 --> 00:11:18,816 Speaker 3: I was the middle. I was the fox. You know, 164 00:11:18,896 --> 00:11:22,836 Speaker 3: here's the two guys running out into the woods. I 165 00:11:22,876 --> 00:11:25,796 Speaker 3: didn't know it then. I was kind of caught up. 166 00:11:26,276 --> 00:11:29,076 Speaker 3: too close and enjoying some of it, you know, the 167 00:11:29,096 --> 00:11:34,046 Speaker 3: travel and enjoying the attention. But I thought it was 168 00:11:34,086 --> 00:11:35,966 Speaker 3: about love periodically, and I'd break down. 169 00:11:38,926 --> 00:11:41,986 Speaker 1: With Don out of the way, in prison, the path 170 00:11:42,086 --> 00:11:46,606 Speaker 1: was clear for Mickey and Linda. And Linda had some 171 00:11:46,726 --> 00:11:48,616 Speaker 1: new skills in her repertoire. 172 00:11:50,616 --> 00:11:52,996 Speaker 3: I was a valuable asset, you know, to have. 173 00:11:54,066 --> 00:11:57,866 Speaker 1: So you'd been traveling around the world with Don Wilson, 174 00:11:57,926 --> 00:12:02,066 Speaker 1: the pirate captain, doing these kinds of schemes with him. 175 00:12:02,346 --> 00:12:02,666 Speaker 3: Yes. 176 00:12:02,906 --> 00:12:05,246 Speaker 1: And Mickey knows you're trained up by Don. 177 00:12:05,306 --> 00:12:05,626 Speaker 3: Yes. 178 00:12:05,726 --> 00:12:07,166 Speaker 1: And now you know how to do this stuff. 179 00:12:07,186 --> 00:12:12,746 Speaker 3: Yes. Yes. Oh, yes. 180 00:12:14,666 --> 00:12:19,256 Speaker 1: After years of talking about the decline of Malibu, of California, 181 00:12:19,676 --> 00:12:23,236 Speaker 1: of the entire country, Mickey was finally going to leave. 182 00:12:25,096 --> 00:12:28,696 Speaker 2: I really feel the Americans are, something has happened to them. 183 00:12:28,716 --> 00:12:32,636 Speaker 2: They've become barbaristic. Barbaristic, I'm not sure that's the term, 184 00:12:32,696 --> 00:12:36,196 Speaker 2: but I think we're having a nervous breakdown in this country. 185 00:12:36,216 --> 00:12:39,036 Speaker 2: I don't want to spell it out for you, but 186 00:12:39,066 --> 00:12:46,266 Speaker 2: it is difficult to live surrounded. A middle class, mediocre 187 00:12:46,286 --> 00:12:47,606 Speaker 2: beach and wave. 188 00:12:48,966 --> 00:12:51,986 Speaker 1: That's Mickey in an interview he gave for the 1970 189 00:12:51,986 --> 00:12:56,586 Speaker 1: film Pacific Vibrations. The golden days of Malibu were over, 190 00:12:56,826 --> 00:12:59,296 Speaker 1: according to Mickey. He was going to see if he 191 00:12:59,336 --> 00:13:01,716 Speaker 1: could recreate them somewhere else. 192 00:13:03,396 --> 00:13:05,196 Speaker 2: Evolution, where is it all going? Is it coming to 193 00:13:05,236 --> 00:13:10,116 Speaker 2: an end, or is it just beginning? There was one 194 00:13:10,176 --> 00:13:15,506 Speaker 2: fellow who rode Malibu quite well at a certain time 195 00:13:15,566 --> 00:13:18,766 Speaker 2: in history, and I doubt if very few people are 196 00:13:18,826 --> 00:13:21,756 Speaker 2: able to find these type of conditions again, do crowds and. 197 00:13:23,646 --> 00:13:28,596 Speaker 2: Controls and much bureaucracy. But there are other areas which 198 00:13:28,636 --> 00:13:30,576 Speaker 2: are magnificent and are treasures of this world. 199 00:13:33,116 --> 00:13:38,426 Speaker 1: So long, Malibu. Mickey's exile was finally about to begin. 200 00:13:53,716 --> 00:13:59,006 Speaker 1: In October of 1974, a man named Richard Austin Roche Jr. 201 00:13:59,366 --> 00:14:02,866 Speaker 1: applied for a new passport in Los Angeles. He submitted 202 00:14:02,906 --> 00:14:05,806 Speaker 1: a photograph of himself wearing a sport coat and tie. 203 00:14:06,926 --> 00:14:09,826 Speaker 1: Roche was a surfer friend of Mickey Dora's. He was 204 00:14:09,866 --> 00:14:13,916 Speaker 1: in the business of building tennis courts. But the passport 205 00:14:13,996 --> 00:14:19,076 Speaker 1: office flagged the application and didn't issue the document. That's 206 00:14:19,116 --> 00:14:23,866 Speaker 1: because 18 months earlier, Richard Austin Roche Jr. had driven 207 00:14:23,926 --> 00:14:28,886 Speaker 1: his car into a trash truck and died. And as 208 00:14:28,926 --> 00:14:32,346 Speaker 1: the FBI discovered later, the person in the passport photo 209 00:14:32,426 --> 00:14:37,646 Speaker 1: submitted with the application was Mickey Dora. When that passport 210 00:14:37,686 --> 00:14:41,646 Speaker 1: application got flagged, the FBI set up a sting, dropping 211 00:14:41,766 --> 00:14:45,616 Speaker 1: off a registered letter for Richard Austin Roche Jr. at 212 00:14:45,636 --> 00:14:49,656 Speaker 1: the address provided. But no one was there to sign 213 00:14:49,696 --> 00:14:55,636 Speaker 1: for it. So why did Mickey leave Malibu? 214 00:14:56,856 --> 00:14:59,776 Speaker 3: Crowds. Adventure. 215 00:15:01,196 --> 00:15:02,196 Speaker 1: Was he also on the run? 216 00:15:03,016 --> 00:15:04,756 Speaker 3: Probably, yeah. 217 00:15:06,456 --> 00:15:09,416 Speaker 1: About 18 months before he left Malibu, Mickey had been 218 00:15:09,466 --> 00:15:15,326 Speaker 1: arrested for stealing ski equipment. In January 1973, Mickey went 219 00:15:15,386 --> 00:15:18,306 Speaker 1: on a ski weekend with some surfer friends. They went 220 00:15:18,346 --> 00:15:21,246 Speaker 1: to Mammoth, that same ski mountain he took Gidget to 221 00:15:21,486 --> 00:15:27,206 Speaker 1: back in the 50s. Mickey bought $ 401. 89 worth of equipment 222 00:15:27,306 --> 00:15:30,286 Speaker 1: and services he paid by check made out to the 223 00:15:30,346 --> 00:15:34,466 Speaker 1: Mammoth Mountain ski area. Mickey had adequate funds in his 224 00:15:34,526 --> 00:15:37,446 Speaker 1: account to cover the check, but claiming that the check 225 00:15:37,466 --> 00:15:40,526 Speaker 1: had been lost, Mickey put a stop on it and 226 00:15:40,566 --> 00:15:45,406 Speaker 1: apparently kept the equipment. He was charged with felony fraud 227 00:15:45,666 --> 00:15:49,356 Speaker 1: in rural Mono County, some 300 miles north of Malibu. 228 00:15:50,436 --> 00:15:54,216 Speaker 1: He was found guilty and put on probation. While his 229 00:15:54,276 --> 00:15:57,246 Speaker 1: case was being processed, Mickey had packed up the house 230 00:15:57,326 --> 00:16:01,366 Speaker 1: on Gretna Green, stuffing all his belongings into a VW van. 231 00:16:03,386 --> 00:16:07,206 Speaker 1: For years, Mickey had been decrying the desecration of Malibu, 232 00:16:07,866 --> 00:16:11,156 Speaker 1: talking about finding someplace quiet and clean where he could 233 00:16:11,216 --> 00:16:16,156 Speaker 1: lie low. He was shipping all his possessions to New Zealand, 234 00:16:16,676 --> 00:16:20,776 Speaker 1: probation or no probation. Good luck to the Mono County 235 00:16:20,816 --> 00:16:22,466 Speaker 1: Sheriff's Department finding him there. 236 00:16:24,696 --> 00:16:27,346 Speaker 3: He was packing up a van to ship over there. 237 00:16:28,926 --> 00:16:29,906 Speaker 1: What was he putting in the van? 238 00:16:30,426 --> 00:16:35,846 Speaker 3: Everything. Clothes, all his antiques. Tiger skins. Tiger skins, yeah, 239 00:16:35,866 --> 00:16:37,606 Speaker 3: the whole show. Everything was going in. 240 00:16:39,146 --> 00:16:42,776 Speaker 1: Mickey had invited Linda to New Zealand. But he'd also 241 00:16:42,836 --> 00:16:46,616 Speaker 1: invited Marsha, the non-surfing heiress. And on the day he 242 00:16:46,636 --> 00:16:52,846 Speaker 1: was packing up, Marsha was there, helping him. Linda was there, too, strategizing. 243 00:16:54,706 --> 00:16:57,426 Speaker 3: My mind was working overtime as to what to say 244 00:16:57,446 --> 00:17:00,406 Speaker 3: to get them to not do it with Marsha. I 245 00:17:00,446 --> 00:17:02,986 Speaker 3: had a couple of long talks with them by myself. 246 00:17:03,226 --> 00:17:05,226 Speaker 3: And I said, you go to New Zealand with her. 247 00:17:05,246 --> 00:17:07,406 Speaker 3: I said, you are not, you could be waiting on 248 00:17:07,446 --> 00:17:11,096 Speaker 3: her hand and foot. She's got loads of money. She's 249 00:17:11,376 --> 00:17:14,476 Speaker 3: going to be wanting to shop. You'll be wanting to surf. 250 00:17:15,216 --> 00:17:17,656 Speaker 3: I said, down there, there'd be nobody around. I said, 251 00:17:17,696 --> 00:17:19,496 Speaker 3: who's going to be your friend to go surfing with? 252 00:17:20,656 --> 00:17:21,336 Speaker 3: I said, that's me. 253 00:17:23,486 --> 00:17:27,726 Speaker 1: But he didn't take Linda. Mickey left L.A. with Marsha, 254 00:17:28,386 --> 00:17:32,486 Speaker 1: and they didn't go to New Zealand. A few months later, 255 00:17:32,966 --> 00:17:36,026 Speaker 1: Mickey told Linda to meet him in Switzerland. This was 256 00:17:36,086 --> 00:17:37,586 Speaker 1: in January of 1975. 257 00:17:37,586 --> 00:17:42,516 Speaker 3: He summonsed me in Zurich. Marsha was going to leave. 258 00:17:42,816 --> 00:17:45,396 Speaker 3: She was going to, I think, Greece. That was the 259 00:17:45,456 --> 00:17:48,156 Speaker 3: split up. Then we continued right on to New Zealand. 260 00:17:49,496 --> 00:17:54,866 Speaker 1: On the way to New Zealand, they went to London... Athens, Cairo, Istanbul, Beirut, 261 00:17:55,106 --> 00:18:00,906 Speaker 1: New Delhi, Goa, Sri Lanka, and Sydney. They looked for surf, antiques, 262 00:18:01,106 --> 00:18:04,846 Speaker 1: and rugs. Along the way, Linda had a job to 263 00:18:04,946 --> 00:18:08,666 Speaker 1: alter Mickey's diner's club card. She already knew how. 264 00:18:10,666 --> 00:18:14,456 Speaker 3: I was assigned to take a little razor blade and 265 00:18:15,096 --> 00:18:20,476 Speaker 3: change some numbers. And we did. And make it good 266 00:18:20,516 --> 00:18:24,126 Speaker 3: for another month. because the way it worked back then, 267 00:18:24,386 --> 00:18:27,366 Speaker 3: these credit cards went through a kachunker, as I call them. 268 00:18:27,466 --> 00:18:30,666 Speaker 3: They're big machines, and they go over the top, and 269 00:18:30,686 --> 00:18:33,826 Speaker 3: they make a copy of the numbers. So my job 270 00:18:33,886 --> 00:18:37,346 Speaker 3: was to glue them back on the numbers and letters 271 00:18:37,406 --> 00:18:39,826 Speaker 3: and whatever we took off to change. 272 00:18:42,406 --> 00:18:45,136 Speaker 1: In New Zealand, Mickey and Linda looked for a place 273 00:18:45,196 --> 00:18:50,656 Speaker 1: to hide, somewhere clean and safe with empty waves. The 274 00:18:50,676 --> 00:18:54,416 Speaker 1: plan was, stop the paper trail, and spend the rest 275 00:18:54,456 --> 00:18:55,976 Speaker 1: of their lives in peace. 276 00:18:56,756 --> 00:18:59,336 Speaker 3: Mickey picked a place in Opatama. It was on the 277 00:18:59,376 --> 00:19:04,726 Speaker 3: Mahia coast. It was actually an older gentleman who lived 278 00:19:05,016 --> 00:19:07,986 Speaker 3: next door, would you believe, and he was selling the house. 279 00:19:08,866 --> 00:19:11,166 Speaker 3: And Mickey went with the pretense that he was going 280 00:19:11,186 --> 00:19:13,926 Speaker 3: to buy it and started paying him, I guess, some rent. 281 00:19:14,546 --> 00:19:16,196 Speaker 3: It was a cute little place. 282 00:19:18,016 --> 00:19:21,356 Speaker 1: But what they didn't realize was that the FBI was 283 00:19:21,396 --> 00:19:24,576 Speaker 1: looking for them, hunting a fugitive who had tried to 284 00:19:24,616 --> 00:19:28,736 Speaker 1: get a passport in a dead man's name. In March 285 00:19:28,776 --> 00:19:34,236 Speaker 1: of 1975, a federal warrant was issued for John Doe, a.k.a. 286 00:19:34,686 --> 00:19:42,046 Speaker 1: Richard Austin Roche Jr., a.k.a. fugitive. Around the same time, 287 00:19:42,066 --> 00:19:45,946 Speaker 1: a bench warrant was issued by a judge in Mono County, California, 288 00:19:46,346 --> 00:19:50,466 Speaker 1: for Michael Chapin. He was a probationer, convicted of stealing 289 00:19:50,526 --> 00:19:57,546 Speaker 1: ski equipment, who had, quote, absconded, whereabouts unknown. Then, in 290 00:19:57,566 --> 00:20:01,576 Speaker 1: June … agents showed a source the photograph from the 291 00:20:01,616 --> 00:20:05,796 Speaker 1: passport application. The source immediately recognized the person in the 292 00:20:05,836 --> 00:20:11,096 Speaker 1: picture as Mickey Chapin. The source told the agents Mickey 293 00:20:11,316 --> 00:20:15,086 Speaker 1: was dangerous and unpredictable and would put sugar in your 294 00:20:15,106 --> 00:20:19,966 Speaker 1: gas tank. He said Mickey carried a large knife. and, quote, 295 00:20:20,546 --> 00:20:23,906 Speaker 1: used to have a following of wild kids on Surfrider Beach. 296 00:20:24,426 --> 00:20:26,886 Speaker 1: He had a large ego and was idolized by these 297 00:20:26,946 --> 00:20:31,416 Speaker 1: kids for the capers he pulled off, unquote. The source 298 00:20:31,596 --> 00:20:35,376 Speaker 1: asked the agents to protect his identity. He was scared 299 00:20:35,396 --> 00:20:37,656 Speaker 1: of what Mickey and his friends would do if they 300 00:20:37,716 --> 00:20:41,836 Speaker 1: found out he'd talked. For the FBI, the picture was 301 00:20:41,916 --> 00:20:48,786 Speaker 1: coming together. Richard Austin Roche was Mickey Chapin. And Mickey Chapin... 302 00:20:48,956 --> 00:20:53,636 Speaker 1: was Miki Dora. The FBI requested a check for weapons 303 00:20:53,716 --> 00:20:58,206 Speaker 1: registered to Michael S. Chapin and Miklos Dora. But they 304 00:20:58,256 --> 00:21:01,566 Speaker 1: had no idea where this person was. 305 00:21:06,606 --> 00:21:10,746 Speaker 3: We got involved with one of the local Maori guys. 306 00:21:11,206 --> 00:21:13,486 Speaker 3: He said, let's go down to the beach. And we 307 00:21:13,506 --> 00:21:16,246 Speaker 3: went down on the beach, and there were wild goats. 308 00:21:16,686 --> 00:21:19,836 Speaker 3: So we shot one of those. Brought that up and 309 00:21:19,876 --> 00:21:22,536 Speaker 3: hung it in the garage for about a week, you know, 310 00:21:22,596 --> 00:21:25,376 Speaker 3: letting it meet tender. I don't know what it was doing, 311 00:21:25,416 --> 00:21:29,076 Speaker 3: but we ended up eating stuff like that. Our best 312 00:21:29,096 --> 00:21:32,996 Speaker 3: thing was roadkill. We drove out the road, dirt road, 313 00:21:33,016 --> 00:21:34,836 Speaker 3: and then we come back. This is our surf checking. 314 00:21:35,536 --> 00:21:37,696 Speaker 3: Come back the other way, and there's a rabbit hit. 315 00:21:38,576 --> 00:21:40,646 Speaker 3: Pick the rabbit up and skin him and throw him 316 00:21:40,666 --> 00:21:45,696 Speaker 3: in the pot. We were eating bait fish. We were skimping, 317 00:21:45,756 --> 00:21:48,616 Speaker 3: you know, we were really careful. Just mackerel and stuff 318 00:21:48,636 --> 00:21:50,636 Speaker 3: people would, you know, throw away off of the side 319 00:21:50,656 --> 00:21:53,946 Speaker 3: of the boat. And who's the other guy? The squid. 320 00:21:54,226 --> 00:21:56,266 Speaker 3: That's it. Calamari. We'd cut him up and eat him. 321 00:21:58,546 --> 00:22:03,006 Speaker 1: Then the FBI put another piece in place. Mickey Dora 322 00:22:03,066 --> 00:22:09,996 Speaker 1: had been on a worldwide spending spree. September 4th, 1975. 323 00:22:09,996 --> 00:22:16,556 Speaker 1: FBI teletype. 2. Director, Washington Field. from Los Angeles. Quote, 324 00:22:17,376 --> 00:22:21,996 Speaker 1: As of August 29, 1975, Dora, through the fraudulent counterfeit 325 00:22:22,096 --> 00:22:24,396 Speaker 1: use of a diner's club card, was in debt to 326 00:22:24,436 --> 00:22:26,336 Speaker 1: the diner's club in the amount of $ 19, 785. 327 00:22:26,176 --> 00:22:26,236 Speaker 2: 91. 328 00:22:26,216 --> 00:22:28,936 Speaker 1: That's about $ 110, 000 today. One more thing? Quote, Mickey was 329 00:22:28,956 --> 00:22:45,776 Speaker 1: accompanied by a white female described as redacted age about redacted. 330 00:22:46,456 --> 00:22:51,506 Speaker 1: Her name was not known. Their mystery man was traveling 331 00:22:51,786 --> 00:22:58,826 Speaker 1: with an even more mysterious woman. Back in New Zealand, 332 00:22:59,266 --> 00:23:01,466 Speaker 1: Mickey and Linda were making it work. 333 00:23:02,746 --> 00:23:06,216 Speaker 3: The stove was actually a wood-fired stove. You had to 334 00:23:06,596 --> 00:23:08,736 Speaker 3: keep that thing going, and for the heat of the house, too. 335 00:23:09,616 --> 00:23:11,466 Speaker 3: And I was good at it. I could do it. 336 00:23:11,596 --> 00:23:14,416 Speaker 3: I wasn't a good cook like Marsha, but You know, 337 00:23:14,456 --> 00:23:18,736 Speaker 3: I could make soup and stuff like that, but that 338 00:23:18,776 --> 00:23:19,156 Speaker 3: was good. 339 00:23:19,856 --> 00:23:23,416 Speaker 1: Life was simple and pretty sweet. And as far as 340 00:23:23,436 --> 00:23:26,396 Speaker 1: they knew, they had successfully dropped out. 341 00:23:27,216 --> 00:23:30,176 Speaker 3: We'd go in to like a local gym and play 342 00:23:30,256 --> 00:23:33,416 Speaker 3: badminton and trying to play tennis, which was one of 343 00:23:33,476 --> 00:23:36,596 Speaker 3: Mickey's favorites. Walking down to the little beach down there 344 00:23:36,636 --> 00:23:37,616 Speaker 3: and enjoying surf. 345 00:23:39,816 --> 00:23:43,216 Speaker 1: But one day, the person they least expected to see 346 00:23:43,236 --> 00:23:49,246 Speaker 1: showed up. not law enforcement, someone who posed a much 347 00:23:49,626 --> 00:23:50,726 Speaker 1: greater threat. 348 00:23:52,226 --> 00:23:55,766 Speaker 3: Well, we get a knock on the door. I see 349 00:23:55,786 --> 00:23:58,086 Speaker 3: this car drive up, and I'm like, who the hell's that, 350 00:23:58,126 --> 00:24:00,626 Speaker 3: you know? I see this blonde come out, and it's Don. 351 00:24:01,946 --> 00:24:02,906 Speaker 3: I said, Mickey, Don's here. 352 00:24:03,066 --> 00:24:03,786 Speaker 1: He goes, what? 353 00:24:05,026 --> 00:24:06,906 Speaker 3: He had a rifle, of course, because we were hunting, 354 00:24:06,946 --> 00:24:09,586 Speaker 3: you know, and he had it behind the door. He 355 00:24:09,606 --> 00:24:10,986 Speaker 3: picks it up, and he says, get rid of him. 356 00:24:12,746 --> 00:24:15,356 Speaker 3: He said, get him out of here. So he comes 357 00:24:15,376 --> 00:24:17,136 Speaker 3: to the door, and I open it, and I go, Don, 358 00:24:17,176 --> 00:24:19,996 Speaker 3: what the hell? And he goes, oh, come on. I said, 359 00:24:20,016 --> 00:24:23,146 Speaker 3: you've got to get out of here, you know. He says, oh, 360 00:24:23,166 --> 00:24:24,776 Speaker 3: just take a spin with me. Let's talk, you know. 361 00:24:25,906 --> 00:24:28,606 Speaker 3: So I didn't have any of my stuff. He says, 362 00:24:29,206 --> 00:24:34,126 Speaker 3: come on. He says, grab your purse, you know. So 363 00:24:34,906 --> 00:24:40,126 Speaker 3: I grab my purse, go out. He says, do you 364 00:24:40,146 --> 00:24:43,826 Speaker 3: like living here? And I said, you know, eh. He says, 365 00:24:43,926 --> 00:24:49,136 Speaker 3: come on, let's go. I got blends. So we get, we, 366 00:24:49,296 --> 00:24:51,506 Speaker 3: I laughed. I had my purse. That's it. 367 00:24:52,326 --> 00:24:54,326 Speaker 1: You didn't feel bad you were leaving Mickey? 368 00:24:54,346 --> 00:25:01,246 Speaker 3: Um, well, there was the adventure thing again, you know, 369 00:25:01,266 --> 00:25:04,656 Speaker 3: I don't know if it was me pulling it off or, um, 370 00:25:06,756 --> 00:25:08,836 Speaker 3: I guess I got tired of New Zealand, you know, 371 00:25:08,856 --> 00:25:13,616 Speaker 3: it kind of wore, um, I just took off, you know, 372 00:25:13,756 --> 00:25:17,596 Speaker 3: and then we get to, I think it was Wellington, 373 00:25:17,946 --> 00:25:21,266 Speaker 3: but my passport wasn't in my purse. Mickey, of course, 374 00:25:21,306 --> 00:25:26,026 Speaker 3: immediately figured out she's going to take off. He took 375 00:25:26,046 --> 00:25:26,646 Speaker 3: my passport. 376 00:25:28,246 --> 00:25:32,046 Speaker 4: Mickey knew Linda couldn't get far without a passport, and 377 00:25:32,086 --> 00:25:34,516 Speaker 4: he knew the first place she'd have to go. 378 00:25:35,656 --> 00:25:41,346 Speaker 3: In the meantime, Don was wanted by the Interpol, And 379 00:25:41,726 --> 00:25:46,666 Speaker 3: Mickey had called someone in the upper departments of passport 380 00:25:46,706 --> 00:25:50,446 Speaker 3: divisions and said, hey, this girl's coming. She's with a 381 00:25:50,486 --> 00:25:53,046 Speaker 3: guy who's wanted by the FBI. Get them. 382 00:25:54,906 --> 00:25:55,246 Speaker 4: So. 383 00:25:55,506 --> 00:25:55,826 Speaker 1: They did. 384 00:25:56,286 --> 00:25:58,486 Speaker 3: They got Don, yeah. And they had to let me go. 385 00:25:59,266 --> 00:26:00,066 Speaker 1: They arrested Don? 386 00:26:00,186 --> 00:26:03,046 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, he got clinked. 387 00:26:05,146 --> 00:26:08,786 Speaker 1: The New Zealand authorities gave Linda a temporary passport and 388 00:26:08,826 --> 00:26:11,446 Speaker 1: informed her that she was going to be deported unless 389 00:26:11,466 --> 00:26:12,406 Speaker 1: she left immediately. 390 00:26:13,446 --> 00:26:16,206 Speaker 3: My flight was Pango Pango, Los Angeles, and when I 391 00:26:16,246 --> 00:26:20,406 Speaker 3: got to Pango Pango, I went to the tourist office 392 00:26:20,546 --> 00:26:23,746 Speaker 3: and changed my ticket and went to New Caledonia. 393 00:26:25,066 --> 00:26:26,406 Speaker 1: Where is that, and why did you go there? 394 00:26:26,666 --> 00:26:28,806 Speaker 3: Because it's right above New Zealand, and I was going 395 00:26:28,826 --> 00:26:30,416 Speaker 3: to go back and kick Mickey's ass. 396 00:26:33,976 --> 00:26:37,596 Speaker 1: Linda was furious, but she still wanted to warn Mickey 397 00:26:37,756 --> 00:26:38,756 Speaker 1: of the danger he was in. 398 00:26:39,916 --> 00:26:41,696 Speaker 3: So I talked to him, Mickey, and I said, I'm 399 00:26:41,736 --> 00:26:45,236 Speaker 3: in New Caledonia. And I said, they're going to come 400 00:26:45,296 --> 00:26:48,896 Speaker 3: after you next because you know, I said, Don is 401 00:26:48,936 --> 00:26:51,986 Speaker 3: going to tell them that you're there. You better join 402 00:26:52,046 --> 00:26:55,746 Speaker 3: me in New Caledonia. And I'm not telling a lie. Now, 403 00:26:55,786 --> 00:26:58,606 Speaker 3: this is the truth. This wasn't like to scare Mickey. 404 00:26:59,086 --> 00:26:59,546 Speaker 4: He knew. 405 00:27:01,546 --> 00:27:04,736 Speaker 3: So he was going to lose everything. His whole, all his, 406 00:27:05,436 --> 00:27:08,526 Speaker 3: everything that he owned, Get on a flight and get 407 00:27:08,546 --> 00:27:10,966 Speaker 3: the hell out of there. Well, he stalled me out. 408 00:27:10,986 --> 00:27:15,466 Speaker 3: I was there for 30 days. He didn't show up. 409 00:27:17,586 --> 00:27:21,746 Speaker 1: Mickey was punishing her. He believed Linda had been writing 410 00:27:21,786 --> 00:27:24,286 Speaker 1: to Don and led him to their hideout. 411 00:27:26,476 --> 00:27:29,096 Speaker 3: I didn't tell Don where I was. You know, he 412 00:27:29,136 --> 00:27:30,276 Speaker 3: found out through my parents. 413 00:27:32,596 --> 00:27:34,636 Speaker 4: But he thought you tipped Don off to where. 414 00:27:35,746 --> 00:27:36,526 Speaker 1: His own whereabouts. 415 00:27:36,566 --> 00:27:36,746 Speaker 3: Yeah. 416 00:27:36,986 --> 00:27:38,806 Speaker 1: And then he was mad because you left with Don. 417 00:27:38,906 --> 00:27:39,106 Speaker 3: Yeah. 418 00:27:39,386 --> 00:27:41,386 Speaker 4: Yeah. So. 419 00:27:42,286 --> 00:27:42,746 Speaker 3: How cute. 420 00:27:42,906 --> 00:27:43,786 Speaker 1: Tangled web. 421 00:27:45,266 --> 00:27:47,016 Speaker 3: Oh, what a web she weaves. 422 00:27:49,116 --> 00:27:51,836 Speaker 1: Linda waited for Mickey for a month, running up a 423 00:27:51,896 --> 00:27:54,896 Speaker 1: hotel bill she could not afford. She had to call 424 00:27:54,936 --> 00:27:59,436 Speaker 1: her parents back in California for help. But then, surprisingly, 425 00:27:59,796 --> 00:28:02,166 Speaker 1: the New Zealand authorities permitted her to return. 426 00:28:04,906 --> 00:28:10,066 Speaker 3: I went back to Mickey's. I saw him on the beach. 427 00:28:11,536 --> 00:28:15,556 Speaker 3: And I nailed him. I said, hey, you're in trouble. 428 00:28:15,576 --> 00:28:18,516 Speaker 3: I said, we'll both get in trouble because they're going 429 00:28:18,536 --> 00:28:22,196 Speaker 3: to come, you know. We had to go. But he 430 00:28:22,236 --> 00:28:23,916 Speaker 3: was mad. He was mad at me and I was 431 00:28:23,956 --> 00:28:24,416 Speaker 3: mad at him. 432 00:28:26,076 --> 00:28:29,336 Speaker 1: But as they'd done many times before, Mickey and Linda 433 00:28:29,476 --> 00:28:33,116 Speaker 1: made up and put it behind them. Mickey put all 434 00:28:33,176 --> 00:28:36,296 Speaker 1: his possessions in a storage facility, and he and Linda 435 00:28:36,376 --> 00:28:42,696 Speaker 1: left the country. When, eventually, authorities searched the unit, they 436 00:28:42,716 --> 00:28:46,416 Speaker 1: found a stash of antiques, gold coins, and other valuables 437 00:28:46,886 --> 00:28:52,126 Speaker 1: worth in excess of $ 100, 000. A loaded rifle, a loaded pistol, 438 00:28:52,586 --> 00:28:58,266 Speaker 1: a 12-gauge shotgun, 24 fake airline tickets used, and 60 439 00:28:58,266 --> 00:29:02,746 Speaker 1: credit cards. Quote, many of which were altered or defaced, 440 00:29:03,306 --> 00:29:07,346 Speaker 1: all in the name of Dora. There were also, quote, 441 00:29:07,726 --> 00:29:14,886 Speaker 1: documents indicating large-scale fraudulent purchasing of goods throughout the world, unquote. 442 00:29:16,266 --> 00:29:20,626 Speaker 1: A third warrant was issued for Mickey's arrest. And now, 443 00:29:21,346 --> 00:29:34,866 Speaker 1: Interpol was involved. After Mickey and Linda left New Zealand, 444 00:29:35,106 --> 00:29:40,096 Speaker 1: the world tour started all over again. Linda's book includes 445 00:29:40,136 --> 00:29:43,476 Speaker 1: a folio of pictures. Mickey in Hyde Park in a 446 00:29:43,516 --> 00:29:46,946 Speaker 1: leather jacket. Mickey in a jockey cap at an ancient 447 00:29:47,026 --> 00:29:50,286 Speaker 1: ruin in Greece. Mickey on a camel in the Valley 448 00:29:50,326 --> 00:29:54,716 Speaker 1: of the Kings. Mickey in Kenya. Mickey in Medellin. 449 00:29:56,976 --> 00:29:59,916 Speaker 3: I actually went around the world three times at one time. 450 00:30:00,956 --> 00:30:09,436 Speaker 3: So there's Australia, New Zealand, Bali, Thailand, Malaysia, India. I'm 451 00:30:09,506 --> 00:30:16,536 Speaker 3: probably missing a few. All of Europe. Tahiti. Costa Rica. Venezuela. 452 00:30:17,856 --> 00:30:21,716 Speaker 1: This time, though, the FBI was tracking their movements with 453 00:30:21,776 --> 00:30:27,206 Speaker 1: help from Interpol and the Diners Club. Mickey and Linda 454 00:30:27,246 --> 00:30:31,326 Speaker 1: were evading law enforcement, but the circuitous path they took 455 00:30:31,426 --> 00:30:33,786 Speaker 1: was dictated by something else entirely. 456 00:30:35,606 --> 00:30:40,226 Speaker 3: This was this whole search of looking for waves that 457 00:30:40,266 --> 00:30:43,286 Speaker 3: weren't ridden at places, you know, early in the early days, 458 00:30:43,686 --> 00:30:48,386 Speaker 3: just the discovery and pioneering stage. And Mickey had all 459 00:30:48,426 --> 00:30:51,876 Speaker 3: these crazy ideas of leaving here to go somewhere else 460 00:30:52,156 --> 00:30:54,256 Speaker 3: where you could ride waves like he did in the 461 00:30:54,296 --> 00:30:57,116 Speaker 3: past at Malibu, at some other place like Malibu. 462 00:30:59,036 --> 00:31:02,816 Speaker 1: Linda was using everything she'd learned from Don Wilson. as 463 00:31:02,906 --> 00:31:05,546 Speaker 1: well as her skills as an artist, to doctor credit 464 00:31:05,566 --> 00:31:09,826 Speaker 1: cards so she and Mickey could keep on moving. But 465 00:31:09,866 --> 00:31:15,796 Speaker 1: they were starting to feel hunted. Mickey's passport had expired. 466 00:31:16,376 --> 00:31:18,656 Speaker 1: When he went to reinstate it, the clerk tried to 467 00:31:18,716 --> 00:31:23,076 Speaker 1: detain him. He was wearing tennis shoes for exactly this reason. 468 00:31:23,756 --> 00:31:26,366 Speaker 1: He ran out of the building and escaped to Linda, 469 00:31:26,606 --> 00:31:31,996 Speaker 1: who was on the street with the motor running. Mickey 470 00:31:32,076 --> 00:31:34,856 Speaker 1: and Linda were scared to use their own passports, and 471 00:31:34,876 --> 00:31:38,116 Speaker 1: they were running low on cash. So they did what 472 00:31:38,156 --> 00:31:43,076 Speaker 1: they knew how to do. They pulled more scams. Passport scams. 473 00:31:44,296 --> 00:31:46,736 Speaker 3: Switching passports around with names and stuff, too. 474 00:31:47,936 --> 00:31:48,996 Speaker 1: Insurance scams. 475 00:31:49,856 --> 00:31:52,856 Speaker 3: Mickey was an expert at this and passed it down. 476 00:31:53,476 --> 00:31:56,736 Speaker 3: He said, what you do is you get travel insurance 477 00:31:57,676 --> 00:32:02,086 Speaker 3: and take a bag, go into a bus depot, and 478 00:32:02,596 --> 00:32:04,256 Speaker 3: stand there like you're on the phone and then go 479 00:32:04,316 --> 00:32:07,496 Speaker 3: over to security guard and say, my bag was just stolen. 480 00:32:08,316 --> 00:32:11,296 Speaker 3: Get a police report, take it to the insurance company, 481 00:32:11,856 --> 00:32:12,916 Speaker 3: claim your insurance money. 482 00:32:14,536 --> 00:32:16,056 Speaker 1: Travelers check scams. 483 00:32:17,336 --> 00:32:20,016 Speaker 3: American Express had what was called travelers checks, where you 484 00:32:20,036 --> 00:32:23,446 Speaker 3: get a packet of them, and then Mickey said what 485 00:32:23,466 --> 00:32:25,766 Speaker 3: you do is you go back and tell them that 486 00:32:25,806 --> 00:32:29,586 Speaker 3: you lost them, or somebody stole them, you lost them, 487 00:32:30,226 --> 00:32:35,406 Speaker 3: and then you get... That amount, again, so instead of $ 500, 488 00:32:35,086 --> 00:32:39,276 Speaker 3: now you have $ 1, 000. I didn't do any of that. 489 00:32:45,776 --> 00:32:50,086 Speaker 3: When you're doing stuff like that, everything you know is 490 00:32:50,126 --> 00:32:50,646 Speaker 3: on the line. 491 00:32:52,406 --> 00:32:54,866 Speaker 1: Linda never lost sight of why she was taking these 492 00:32:54,926 --> 00:32:59,196 Speaker 1: enormous risks with Mickey. It was for the surf. 493 00:33:01,256 --> 00:33:03,736 Speaker 3: After we had a good session somewhere, we'd say, ah, 494 00:33:03,896 --> 00:33:06,156 Speaker 3: look at that, you know. How would we do that? 495 00:33:06,956 --> 00:33:08,556 Speaker 4: You must have felt like you were getting away with 496 00:33:09,116 --> 00:33:11,356 Speaker 4: the most amazing heist of all time. 497 00:33:11,386 --> 00:33:14,966 Speaker 3: Yes. Yes. Bonnie and Clyde, here we are, you know. 498 00:33:17,166 --> 00:33:21,046 Speaker 1: Don Wilson had ruined Mickey's plan to duck all his 499 00:33:21,126 --> 00:33:25,286 Speaker 1: creditors and law enforcement and surf empty waves in New 500 00:33:25,336 --> 00:33:29,336 Speaker 1: Zealand for the rest of his life. Now New Zealand 501 00:33:29,456 --> 00:33:33,636 Speaker 1: was burned. Mickey had to find a different place to hide. 502 00:33:34,696 --> 00:33:37,976 Speaker 1: He decided on the south of France. There was a 503 00:33:38,056 --> 00:33:42,256 Speaker 1: small town there called Gittery. It reminded him of Malibu, 504 00:33:42,836 --> 00:33:47,166 Speaker 1: as it had been in the 50s. In France, he'd 505 00:33:47,186 --> 00:33:50,566 Speaker 1: be beyond the reach of U.S. authorities. The French did 506 00:33:50,606 --> 00:33:54,436 Speaker 1: not tend to extradite. Plus, he could spend his winters 507 00:33:54,506 --> 00:33:59,966 Speaker 1: skiing in the Alps. Mickey and Linda flew to Germany, 508 00:34:00,266 --> 00:34:04,766 Speaker 1: where Mickey bought a new, fully-loaded Mercedes camper van, dark green. 509 00:34:05,566 --> 00:34:08,186 Speaker 1: According to Linda, he paid for it with a dividend 510 00:34:08,326 --> 00:34:12,066 Speaker 1: from gold stocks he owned. Or something like that. Linda 511 00:34:12,106 --> 00:34:15,846 Speaker 1: wasn't sure. He kept his stock certificates and gold coins 512 00:34:15,986 --> 00:34:20,396 Speaker 1: in a safety deposit box in Switzerland. While they were 513 00:34:20,436 --> 00:34:23,416 Speaker 1: in Germany, Linda felt sick and threw up so many 514 00:34:23,456 --> 00:34:25,956 Speaker 1: times she got dehydrated and had to go to the hospital. 515 00:34:26,906 --> 00:34:35,776 Speaker 1: Mickey ran out on the bill. In the summer of 1976, 516 00:34:35,776 --> 00:34:38,896 Speaker 1: Miklos Stora, Mickey's father, was going to be in France, 517 00:34:39,216 --> 00:34:43,836 Speaker 1: meeting with Baron Philippe de Rothschild. Miklos had been working 518 00:34:43,856 --> 00:34:47,886 Speaker 1: for the Rothschild since the mid-60s, distributing their wines in California. 519 00:34:48,586 --> 00:34:51,026 Speaker 1: At one point, he was the sole U.S. importer for 520 00:34:51,046 --> 00:34:55,476 Speaker 1: the company. The Rothschilds were among the wealthiest and most 521 00:34:55,536 --> 00:34:58,836 Speaker 1: respected families in Europe. They were the first Jewish family 522 00:34:58,876 --> 00:35:01,376 Speaker 1: to be invited into the peerage, and they had a 523 00:35:01,516 --> 00:35:06,066 Speaker 1: huge chateau and vineyards outside of Bordeaux. Mickey and Linda 524 00:35:06,146 --> 00:35:09,806 Speaker 1: showed up in the camper van. By this point, Mickey 525 00:35:09,846 --> 00:35:13,826 Speaker 1: had a new scheme in mind. Do you remember anything 526 00:35:13,906 --> 00:35:17,396 Speaker 1: about Mickey's search for the episodic wave? 527 00:35:19,136 --> 00:35:25,366 Speaker 3: That's all... baloney. There is no episodic wave. It's all 528 00:35:25,406 --> 00:35:27,226 Speaker 3: a ploy, you know, to just keep traveling. 529 00:35:30,766 --> 00:35:35,266 Speaker 1: According to Mickey, the episodic wave was, quote, a Bermuda 530 00:35:35,366 --> 00:35:41,246 Speaker 1: Triangle-like phenomenon supposedly accountable for the mysterious disappearance of many ships. 531 00:35:41,946 --> 00:35:44,786 Speaker 1: It is a wave of enormous proportions not caused by 532 00:35:45,006 --> 00:35:49,686 Speaker 1: any of the usual means, e.g. storms, earth tremors, or quakes. 533 00:35:51,806 --> 00:35:55,506 Speaker 1: The episodic wave, sometimes known as the rogue wave or 534 00:35:55,526 --> 00:36:00,066 Speaker 1: the ninth wave, is a real phenomenon. But Mickey's expedition 535 00:36:00,326 --> 00:36:03,546 Speaker 1: probably wasn't. He wanted to go looking for it in 536 00:36:03,826 --> 00:36:07,916 Speaker 1: New Guinea with Jacques Cousteau and maybe some money from Rolex. 537 00:36:09,796 --> 00:36:13,036 Speaker 1: Years later, in letters to Linda, Mickey would use the 538 00:36:13,176 --> 00:36:17,336 Speaker 1: episodic wave as code for a boondoggle, a reference to 539 00:36:17,356 --> 00:36:22,996 Speaker 1: their outlaw adventures. In Bordeaux, Mickey and Linda were hanging 540 00:36:23,036 --> 00:36:26,476 Speaker 1: around the campground, stealing food from the local market, when 541 00:36:26,496 --> 00:36:30,156 Speaker 1: they finally got an invitation to the Rothschild's Chateau for lunch. 542 00:36:31,686 --> 00:36:35,406 Speaker 3: And the Baron, we were sitting at the table, and 543 00:36:35,466 --> 00:36:39,406 Speaker 3: he was so excited, talking, and just have me and 544 00:36:39,426 --> 00:36:42,426 Speaker 3: Mickey there with him. And he was moving his arms 545 00:36:42,466 --> 00:36:44,766 Speaker 3: around and talking and knocked over a bottle of wine, 546 00:36:44,826 --> 00:36:47,866 Speaker 3: and it was probably a freaking $ 500 bottle of wine, 547 00:36:47,886 --> 00:36:49,876 Speaker 3: you know. It went on the floor and all these 548 00:36:49,936 --> 00:36:53,256 Speaker 3: beautiful tiles and all the maids and everybody came running 549 00:36:53,316 --> 00:36:55,166 Speaker 3: in to clean it up, you know, before it stained 550 00:36:55,206 --> 00:36:55,726 Speaker 3: the tiles. 551 00:36:57,546 --> 00:37:00,466 Speaker 1: Mickey asked the Baron if he would fund an expedition 552 00:37:00,626 --> 00:37:02,506 Speaker 1: to find the episodic wave. 553 00:37:04,426 --> 00:37:06,386 Speaker 3: The Baron wasn't going to bite on that. You know, 554 00:37:06,426 --> 00:37:09,226 Speaker 3: he was like, what? No, no, it wasn't going to happen. 555 00:37:11,486 --> 00:37:14,326 Speaker 1: The relentless pace of being on the run with Mickey 556 00:37:14,686 --> 00:37:16,326 Speaker 1: was starting to wear Linda down. 557 00:37:20,226 --> 00:37:26,406 Speaker 3: There was the amazing, amazing beautiful places and hotels and opulence. 558 00:37:26,946 --> 00:37:31,046 Speaker 3: And then down to the absolute rough garbage, just roughing 559 00:37:31,126 --> 00:37:34,426 Speaker 3: it and flies coming after you. You're trying to run 560 00:37:34,486 --> 00:37:36,606 Speaker 3: away on the beach. And here comes this pack of 561 00:37:36,646 --> 00:37:39,716 Speaker 3: flies and fishing off the beach. And here's a couple of, 562 00:37:40,046 --> 00:37:42,186 Speaker 3: you know, catch a couple of cod, you know. Well, 563 00:37:42,226 --> 00:37:44,996 Speaker 3: they'll put that on the barbecue and eat that. There 564 00:37:45,016 --> 00:37:48,076 Speaker 3: was times when it was rough. And there was times 565 00:37:48,116 --> 00:37:50,916 Speaker 3: when the weather was bad. There was times when I 566 00:37:50,936 --> 00:37:55,156 Speaker 3: had malaria and almost died. There was a full at 567 00:37:55,216 --> 00:37:58,316 Speaker 3: least five lifetimes packed into one. 568 00:38:00,016 --> 00:38:03,086 Speaker 4: When you look back and think about your younger self who, 569 00:38:03,226 --> 00:38:05,646 Speaker 4: you know, you said you were naive, but you're sounding 570 00:38:05,686 --> 00:38:06,786 Speaker 4: less naive by the minute. 571 00:38:06,826 --> 00:38:11,386 Speaker 1: You're getting some worldly experience out there. How do you 572 00:38:11,426 --> 00:38:14,536 Speaker 1: feel about it? Do you feel like angry that these 573 00:38:14,616 --> 00:38:17,076 Speaker 1: guys got you to do this stuff that could have 574 00:38:17,116 --> 00:38:19,766 Speaker 1: gotten you in real trouble? in places you couldn't have 575 00:38:19,806 --> 00:38:20,446 Speaker 1: gotten out of? 576 00:38:21,546 --> 00:38:23,376 Speaker 3: People got mad at me a little bit because they 577 00:38:23,396 --> 00:38:27,356 Speaker 3: said you were stupid, you know. But actually, I don't 578 00:38:27,416 --> 00:38:29,896 Speaker 3: think I was, you know. I think I was kind 579 00:38:29,936 --> 00:38:34,856 Speaker 3: of in there, too, working it. And the reason why 580 00:38:34,876 --> 00:38:39,716 Speaker 3: is I figured out I'm a surfer. And, I mean, 581 00:38:39,956 --> 00:38:41,626 Speaker 3: that says it all. I mean, when you see it, 582 00:38:41,636 --> 00:38:44,756 Speaker 3: I mean, if you do it and see it and 583 00:38:44,796 --> 00:38:48,066 Speaker 3: you understand it, you can see how it, kind of 584 00:38:48,356 --> 00:38:54,286 Speaker 3: pushed me to kind of work it more. There's the surf. 585 00:38:55,086 --> 00:38:56,486 Speaker 3: There's the adventure. 586 00:38:58,686 --> 00:39:03,246 Speaker 4: So you were pulling these scams so that you could 587 00:39:03,306 --> 00:39:04,386 Speaker 4: surf the world? 588 00:39:05,306 --> 00:39:06,776 Speaker 3: And survive, yeah. 589 00:39:08,496 --> 00:39:13,896 Speaker 1: But Linda was restless, and more important, she didn't trust Mickey. 590 00:39:16,246 --> 00:39:18,646 Speaker 3: I never felt that he did have my back. 591 00:39:19,686 --> 00:39:20,476 Speaker 1: You were on your own? 592 00:39:20,576 --> 00:39:20,876 Speaker 3: Yes. 593 00:39:21,536 --> 00:39:22,656 Speaker 1: Even though you were with Mickey? 594 00:39:22,676 --> 00:39:24,956 Speaker 3: Yes. He used to kind of say to me, too, 595 00:39:24,996 --> 00:39:26,996 Speaker 3: a little bit, you know, if you get caught with 596 00:39:27,036 --> 00:39:30,716 Speaker 3: Don pulling shit like this, he said, he's got a 597 00:39:30,736 --> 00:39:32,866 Speaker 3: lot of money, you know, he'll bail himself out, but 598 00:39:33,266 --> 00:39:35,286 Speaker 3: you won't. He says, you know, you're not going to 599 00:39:35,306 --> 00:39:37,606 Speaker 3: get bailed out. So he used to kind of, like, 600 00:39:37,986 --> 00:39:39,856 Speaker 3: put the teeth in with... that, you know. 601 00:39:40,456 --> 00:39:42,236 Speaker 1: Manipulating you a bit. 602 00:39:43,116 --> 00:39:43,376 Speaker 4: Yeah. 603 00:39:43,456 --> 00:39:47,896 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. Mental, little bit of mental grr. 604 00:39:49,936 --> 00:39:53,416 Speaker 1: And Mickey could be aggressive. One time toward the end 605 00:39:53,436 --> 00:39:56,976 Speaker 1: of their relationship, Mickey crossed a line with her. They 606 00:39:57,016 --> 00:39:59,356 Speaker 1: were in France, staying in Mickey's camper van. 607 00:40:01,916 --> 00:40:05,156 Speaker 3: He threw a pot of hot tea at me, and 608 00:40:06,476 --> 00:40:10,266 Speaker 3: we were in the little van, the Mercedes. That's when 609 00:40:10,326 --> 00:40:14,106 Speaker 3: I jumped out of the door, and everything was getting frayed. 610 00:40:15,586 --> 00:40:19,606 Speaker 3: Everything was, like, coming apart at the threads. There was 611 00:40:19,646 --> 00:40:28,946 Speaker 3: too many obstacles, barriers, people, circumstances. I was seeing clutter. 612 00:40:28,966 --> 00:40:33,256 Speaker 3: I wasn't focusing on what I really wanted to do anymore. 613 00:40:33,376 --> 00:40:36,416 Speaker 3: I wanted to just surf and have peace. As a 614 00:40:36,436 --> 00:40:38,276 Speaker 3: friend of mine used to say, I wanted to trim 615 00:40:38,336 --> 00:40:44,156 Speaker 3: in peace. And this wasn't happening, you know. There was 616 00:40:44,196 --> 00:40:45,836 Speaker 3: too many pulls and tugs. 617 00:40:47,526 --> 00:40:50,526 Speaker 1: At some point, it all became too much. 618 00:40:52,926 --> 00:40:56,346 Speaker 3: I'll tell you when I lost it. I was in France. 619 00:40:57,126 --> 00:40:59,706 Speaker 3: Mickey was stuck there because he had no means to 620 00:40:59,746 --> 00:41:03,886 Speaker 3: get anywhere with a passport. He'd burnt out everything. France 621 00:41:03,966 --> 00:41:07,126 Speaker 3: was going to be the place. And I got tired 622 00:41:07,166 --> 00:41:10,716 Speaker 3: of France. And I got tired of the whole thing. Well, 623 00:41:11,496 --> 00:41:15,896 Speaker 3: two Irish guys came down from Ireland and kind of 624 00:41:15,936 --> 00:41:18,476 Speaker 3: talked about surf. And we were talking and talking. And 625 00:41:18,516 --> 00:41:19,936 Speaker 3: I said, when are you going up there? And he goes, 626 00:41:20,116 --> 00:41:23,546 Speaker 3: next week. And I said, can I come? He goes, 627 00:41:23,566 --> 00:41:26,406 Speaker 3: you got money for gas? I said, yes. I left. 628 00:41:26,426 --> 00:41:30,566 Speaker 3: I left. Mickey was left sitting, I told him, I said, 629 00:41:30,586 --> 00:41:34,706 Speaker 3: I'm leaving. He was in a stairwell in Biarritz. It 630 00:41:34,726 --> 00:41:37,866 Speaker 3: was the Chambre de Mourne. He was in the stairwell 631 00:41:37,906 --> 00:41:41,086 Speaker 3: and he broke down, cried. Now, I got to tell you, 632 00:41:41,206 --> 00:41:44,666 Speaker 3: I don't know if it was real tears or if 633 00:41:44,756 --> 00:41:48,856 Speaker 3: it was the game's not over yet tears, but mine 634 00:41:49,136 --> 00:41:50,456 Speaker 3: were over. I was done. 635 00:41:56,846 --> 00:42:00,646 Speaker 1: Linda relocated to a desolate beach in County Sligo on 636 00:42:00,806 --> 00:42:05,246 Speaker 1: Ireland's Atlantic coast. She moved into a broken-down VW bus 637 00:42:05,446 --> 00:42:10,586 Speaker 1: and spent the winter surfing alone. Mickey also found himself 638 00:42:10,666 --> 00:42:16,966 Speaker 1: alone in France. He'd been there before, left behind, abandoned. 639 00:42:18,106 --> 00:42:22,646 Speaker 1: But Mickey was a survivor. He'd park his Mercedes camper 640 00:42:22,686 --> 00:42:26,196 Speaker 1: van in the little town of Gittery, keep his head 641 00:42:26,236 --> 00:42:37,216 Speaker 1: down and wait for someone else to come along. Next 642 00:42:37,256 --> 00:42:40,296 Speaker 1: time on Lost Hills, Mickey can't hide. 643 00:42:40,316 --> 00:42:45,886 Speaker 5: The editor called, the publisher called us into his office. 644 00:42:45,906 --> 00:42:49,346 Speaker 5: And he said, okay, you guys are going to France, 645 00:42:49,406 --> 00:42:51,466 Speaker 5: and we know Mickey Dorr is hanging out in France. 646 00:42:51,906 --> 00:42:54,726 Speaker 5: He's been dropped off the radar now for a few years, 647 00:42:55,266 --> 00:42:57,606 Speaker 5: and no one's heard anything of him or from him, 648 00:42:57,666 --> 00:43:01,036 Speaker 5: but we know he's there. And you guys are going there, 649 00:43:01,216 --> 00:43:04,716 Speaker 5: and no matter what, what did he say to you? 650 00:43:05,476 --> 00:43:08,256 Speaker 3: He said, if Mickey even farts, I want a picture 651 00:43:08,316 --> 00:43:08,486 Speaker 3: of it. 652 00:43:10,126 --> 00:43:13,166 Speaker 5: That's how much they wanted coverage of Mickey, right? So 653 00:43:13,206 --> 00:43:14,596 Speaker 5: we said, okay, we're on it. 654 00:43:15,666 --> 00:43:22,956 Speaker 1: That's next in Episode 9, The Fall Guys. Lost Hills 655 00:43:23,016 --> 00:43:26,616 Speaker 1: is written and reported by me, Dana Goodyear. It's created 656 00:43:26,676 --> 00:43:29,936 Speaker 1: by me and Ben Adair and produced by Western Sound 657 00:43:30,156 --> 00:43:34,236 Speaker 1: and Pushkin Industries. Subscribe to Pushkin Plus and you can 658 00:43:34,276 --> 00:43:38,776 Speaker 1: binge the entire season right now, ad-free. Find Pushkin Plus 659 00:43:38,896 --> 00:43:41,476 Speaker 1: on the Lost Hills show page in Apple Podcasts or 660 00:43:41,496 --> 00:43:44,376 Speaker 1: at pushkin.fm slash plus.