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Speaker 1: I used to like soccer growing up, but then I've

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Speaker 1: just grown out of it now and hearing a bunch

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Speaker 1: of Americans be like, Hi man now Arsenal, that's my

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Speaker 1: best American accent.

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Speaker 2: Yay, you found him.

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Speaker 1: I just I don't like it. I don't like hearing it.

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Speaker 1: I don't need any Americans talking about west Ham.

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Speaker 3: Oh Man forever blowing bubbles? Mate, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 3: that's what we're saying. I remember catching them at the

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Speaker 3: Bowl in ground playing. You know, did that other team?

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Speaker 2: So yeah, there we go.

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Speaker 4: Now that's someone who knows football. Yeah, unless they're like that,

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Speaker 4: in which case they're an expert. Right, Hello the Internet,

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Speaker 4: and welcome to season three thirty eight, Episode two of

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Speaker 4: der Day's I Guys Say production of iHeartRadio. This is

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Speaker 4: a podcast where we take a deep dive into a

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Speaker 4: Erica's shared consciousness.

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Speaker 2: And it is.

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Speaker 4: Tuesday, May fourteenth, twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 2: You're of our lord.

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Speaker 3: I just realized on yesterday's Weekend Trending episode, I said

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Speaker 3: I gave the days that are actually today, so you

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Speaker 3: already heard what today is. It's National Decency Day and

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Speaker 3: National Biscuit Day and National.

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Speaker 2: Dance like a Chicken Day.

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Speaker 4: Could we just be decent to each other and stop

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Speaker 4: yelling on college campuses?

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Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 4: Did you see that guy Richie Showjack on Netflix The Gentleman.

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Speaker 4: I saw the first couple.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I was just more a bunch of British people

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Speaker 1: trying to wait.

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Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, very believable, very believable.

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Speaker 3: But the I just was thinking of the guy how

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Speaker 3: he had to dance like a chicken for the Liverpool

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Speaker 3: gangster guy. Yeah yeah, and just doing indeed more and

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Speaker 3: more cocaine to be able to believe be a chicken.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: You got one thing, right, and that's the chicken thing.

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Speaker 1: But the decency. No, in fact, those two things are

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Speaker 1: in no position to each.

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Speaker 2: Other, right right right.

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Speaker 4: I used to have to do so much cocaine before

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Speaker 4: the chicken dance came on. At my middle school dances.

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Speaker 2: I used to have to get.

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Speaker 3: Fucking jack to the You start hearing that Poka band

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Speaker 3: warm up?

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Speaker 1: Oh man.

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Speaker 5: I still fart whenever I hear Poka music. Man my

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Speaker 5: Bonny Water Fountain. Ye, Well, my name is Jack O'Brien aka.

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Speaker 5: Here comes the story of Harry Kane.

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Speaker 4: A soccer player with an amazing name and though I've

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Speaker 4: never seen him run, jack Obe said he was the

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Speaker 4: one who makes him scream and the Zeit game Baby's agreed.

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Speaker 4: That is courtesy of hanahamic View on the discord about

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Speaker 4: my favorite phrase in the English language, Harry Kane massive,

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Speaker 4: I'm sure I guess esus Christ completely unoffended and uh yeah,

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Speaker 4: just headed to the Harry Wow. Wait am I home? Anyways?

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Speaker 4: I'm a thriller to me joined shout out to hanarhamic

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Speaker 4: view though one of the greats uh throw to be

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Speaker 4: joined as always by my co host mister Miles.

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Speaker 3: Grasty aka Slithering and Fishing and big toothless smile heroin

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Speaker 3: addict with Lebron James hair style.

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Speaker 4: The video game was a horrible thing.

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Speaker 3: Gollum's my new favorite Lord of the Ring singular reference

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Speaker 3: to that apology letter from the people that made the

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Speaker 3: Gollum video game.

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Speaker 1: And couldn't apologizing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah it was should have. Yeah it was terrible. It

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Speaker 3: was absolutely terrible. And the first thing was like, we're

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Speaker 3: so sorry about Gollum Lord of the Ring, and everyone's like,

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Speaker 3: the fucking you don't even have.

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Speaker 1: The name, you can't even get that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, no, not at all so on the discord that

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Speaker 4: was from Blink.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, shout out to you, thanks for that one.

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Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, Wait is there fishing in that game?

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Speaker 1: Is that what? Or did we just think that might be?

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Speaker 3: I think because he just needs to From my understanding,

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Speaker 3: he just lives off of just fit whatever from the stream.

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Speaker 1: The chickens as well.

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Speaker 3: I think he eats. I think McCallum is an omnivore.

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Speaker 3: I think it's safe to say he would eat a

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Speaker 3: tin can if pushed back.

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Speaker 2: The chef like a goat.

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Speaker 4: I've only seen the first of the Lords of the

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Speaker 4: Ring and I was very high for so I don't

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Speaker 4: remember much of it.

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Speaker 1: So the first first time I saw the second one,

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Speaker 1: Two Towers, I was in a Less the Square movie

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Speaker 1: theater in London and was there with a few friends

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Speaker 1: with quite a few drinks. And then it says Lord

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Speaker 1: of the Rings on the screen, and one of the

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Speaker 1: guys on which goes, oh fuck.

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Speaker 6: I thought, this is Harry Potter and a bunch of

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Speaker 6: really like exactly the kind of people you thought would

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Speaker 6: be there opening night for this movie, shushing him.

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Speaker 1: Then we I think it said like Lord of the

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Speaker 1: Rings and then took a bait and then said the

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Speaker 1: two towers because immediately he goes, you're wiz it, Harry,

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Speaker 1: and look the people punned around, very clearly wanting to

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Speaker 1: say something, not realizing that this guy was huge. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he was just a giant guy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a total that.

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Speaker 3: Well, that's good for happy Gilmo, my god.

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Speaker 4: Gilmore Billy Madison reference.

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Speaker 1: In two days, he would have punched them on fire asunder.

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Speaker 4: Right right, I like it. Well, that voice you hear

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Speaker 4: is not Harry Kane. We are thrilled to be joined

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Speaker 4: by one of our favorites, the tech journalists and writer

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Speaker 4: behind the newsletter Where's Your ed At? Where's Your ed

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Speaker 4: dot At? This podcast with cool Zone Media Better Offline

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Speaker 4: is a must listen one of my favorite podcasts that

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Speaker 4: launched in the last year, so good go check it out.

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Speaker 4: It's head Dry.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to podcast.

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Speaker 1: The podcast voice the entire time, I don't even know

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Speaker 1: what that is. You're in the pot, you're in the

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Speaker 1: rock with the casters. Man didn't start on college radio,

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Speaker 1: So what were you?

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Speaker 4: Were you playing music or were you just doing like

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Speaker 4: I was.

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Speaker 1: I was playing music, but I was talking and I

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Speaker 1: just bring random people in. Yeah, and my favorite thing

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Speaker 1: to do was when I got crank calls from people

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Speaker 1: is I'd find the number and call them back. I'd

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Speaker 1: be like, we got cut off somehow. Right, most of

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Speaker 1: the time, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, man, it's okay.

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Speaker 2: You're on radio. Whoa, it's interesting to.

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Speaker 3: See that kind of troll energy. Were like, I only

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Speaker 3: meant it for to go in one direction. The second

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Speaker 3: you acknowledge as a person, it all falls apart a conversation.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, but I was born on the Internet. I was

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Speaker 7: ready for this, like right exactly. Oh man, who was

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Speaker 7: that one dude who did those crank calls in the UK?

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Speaker 7: That comedian I remember, like they went viral over here

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Speaker 7: in the internet era.

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Speaker 4: Hmmm, it was like crah my, god he would do

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Speaker 4: never mind, I'll find the thing.

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Speaker 3: It was like boys you're thinking of, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Jerky boys, the Jersey Boys. I think that's a musical.

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Speaker 4: Yea, look, my brain's not working all right.

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Speaker 1: That makes three of us. That's right, two five well ed.

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Speaker 4: We're thrilled to have you on. We're going to talk

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Speaker 4: about some of the stuff you've been covering over on

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Speaker 4: Better Offline. Why we got a little more detailed. I

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Speaker 4: think the first time you were on We talked a

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Speaker 4: little bit about Google Search being an example of the

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Speaker 4: rot economy, but we have a better idea of kind

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Speaker 4: of the specifics of how it got so bad, So

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Speaker 4: we're going to dig into that and other companies that

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Speaker 4: are being ruined by this, like management class.

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Speaker 1: Of people, the McKenzie elite.

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Speaker 4: McKenzie elite, You do your time at McKenzie and then

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Speaker 4: go ruin the.

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Speaker 1: Techste run any business you like into the ground. They'll

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Speaker 1: pay you so well.

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Speaker 4: For and then you'll fail upwards. We'll talk about that,

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Speaker 4: and there's some also some interesting stuff on Elon Musk,

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Speaker 4: who you referred to as n Ron musk ra Musk.

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Speaker 1: That was the best pun I've made.

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Speaker 4: There is a direction, there is a path that this

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Speaker 4: could go down that's like really really like obviously, like

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Speaker 4: anyone who's been paying attention, it is like this guy's

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Speaker 4: kind of full of shit, right, But some of the

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Speaker 4: stuff with Tesla and the self driving car stuff, granted,

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Speaker 4: this being the version of America we existed, it's probably

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Speaker 4: gonna be fine, But there's a version in a sane

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Speaker 4: world where this whole house of cards collapses.

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Speaker 1: What's Tesla is just such a peculiar company like the

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Speaker 1: cyber trunk alone. Right, it's just insane that that thing

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Speaker 1: is going on about like nearly chopping people's fear, like

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Speaker 1: some guy put his finger in the drunk thing as

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Speaker 1: it closed. Yeah, and like broke.

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Speaker 2: Harper truck trunk.

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Speaker 1: Honestly, we've also on you yes on unite. Yeah, especially

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Speaker 1: when you're going to stick your finger in that. But

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Speaker 1: also these things keep breaking someone's broke because he put

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Speaker 1: it in a car wash.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I saw that one too.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: They seem to just perpetually get stuck in situations that

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Speaker 1: a nineteen eighty six Camra would carefully navigate. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: I think though to some extent, that's also they used

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Speaker 1: to just make things better but easy. We're getting into globalization.

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Speaker 4: But the Mackenzie person hadn't come in and given them

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Speaker 4: the analysis that yeah, exactly in a couple of years

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Speaker 4: actually makes it helps with turn over.

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Speaker 1: It could save us thirteen cents per car, but the

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Speaker 1: cause will last five years less and the meaning they

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Speaker 1: need to buy a new one.

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Speaker 4: Boom.

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Speaker 3: Just the prank call thing I was reverending earlier was

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Speaker 3: phone jacker, phone jack tracker. Yeah, Cavon Novak, who's the

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Speaker 3: guy who's on what we do in the shadows. He's

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Speaker 3: like this English comedian. He'd had this whole prank call

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Speaker 3: website that me and my friends. It was like a

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Speaker 3: show that was on I forget what channel.

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Speaker 4: I missed a branding opportunity in elementary school. Apparent I

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Speaker 4: could have been the phone jacker, could have been the

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Speaker 4: phone jack.

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Speaker 1: Now I want a Yeah, I want a title with

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Speaker 1: Jack in it.

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Speaker 4: In elementary school.

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Speaker 3: Yeah if Jack, cause you don't pick up just so

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Speaker 3: you know, it's weird on the other side, Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 4: I tried to steer clear of that as much as possible.

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Speaker 4: But before we get into all that stuff ed, we

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Speaker 4: do like to ask our guests, what is something from

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Speaker 4: your search history or what is something that you've recently

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Speaker 4: screen grabbed that is revealing about who you are.

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Speaker 1: I've been very much enjoying this weird side project called

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Speaker 1: them Crooked Vultures Queen. It was the Queen's the Sage

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Speaker 1: front man bassist from let Zeppelin and Dave Groll on

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Speaker 1: drums also but also that and Peeping Tom, which is

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Speaker 1: another great name to say. But also it was a

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Speaker 1: Mike Patten, So Mike Patten in the face no more.

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Speaker 1: It is him Razel Who was this guy who does

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Speaker 1: beat boxing with his mouth. Yeah, from the roots weird

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Speaker 1: weird bundled Trio, which was to upstep but done with

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Speaker 1: the band, and then I forget what the woman was

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Speaker 1: calling it, but the DJs were called the Executioners. It's insane.

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Speaker 1: It was like a one off album. It's fantastic. I'll

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Speaker 1: be listening to it sit outside. The weather's getting nice here,

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Speaker 1: so I'm just sitting outside having a frosty diet coke

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Speaker 1: listening to music. It's delightful.

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Speaker 4: Wait. What was this group again that had the Executioners

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Speaker 4: in it?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Peeping Tom. Wow.

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Speaker 3: I mean I used to watch their like scratch videos

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Speaker 3: because they're.

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Speaker 1: They like they was excellent, Like the whole band's excellent.

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Speaker 1: You got to check them out.

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Speaker 2: Wow. Okay, Yeah rec in Peace Rock Radar.

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Speaker 3: I remember he passed away in two thousand and something,

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Speaker 3: but yeah, that's okay.

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Speaker 2: I'm definitely gonna look into that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's such a weird band, but it's great, and.

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Speaker 4: I think the first time you're wrong. Your search history

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Speaker 4: was also something related to the Queens of the Stoney.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's because I'm a huge Queens of the Stone

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Speaker 1: Age fan. I've now seen them sixteen times. But I

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Speaker 1: realized that there's actually something not Queens of Snage I

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Speaker 1: could bring up, which is Peeping Tom, which I don't

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Speaker 1: think has any connection to the band, which is unusual

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Speaker 1: for music to me.

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Speaker 4: Wow, look at you spreading, spreading.

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Speaker 1: Out, spreading out. Now I listened to two bands.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, have you been to the ORB at all?

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Speaker 1: To the ORB? Yeah, I have. So I don't know

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Speaker 1: how much you know about this thing, but it's really weird.

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Speaker 1: They tell you to come in at a time, but

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Speaker 1: then there's like an hour in this very strange lobby

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Speaker 1: with these ai ai quote unquote humanoids that will respond

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Speaker 1: to things you say. So you're there for an hour

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Speaker 1: and it's crowded than the food sucks and it's awful.

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Speaker 1: But also these these robots will talk back to you.

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Speaker 1: But I've heard rumors that there's not actually robots, that

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Speaker 1: there's a bloke who's just talking.

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Speaker 4: Oh.

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Speaker 1: If I ever come across the truth behind this story,

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Speaker 1: you're here on better offline for sure. But I went

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Speaker 1: to see Aronofsky's Postcards from Earth. One of the things

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Speaker 1: I was up the very high seats, which were the

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Speaker 1: cheapest ones, making them one hundred and thirty bucks apiece,

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Speaker 1: which ridiculous for a movie. Those seats. I have never

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Speaker 1: felt such powerful vertigo. I have a fear of heights,

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Speaker 1: and I thought I was going to die at the

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Speaker 1: whole time. My kid was there. He was fine, totally fine.

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Speaker 1: That was like ah. But the movie itself is so

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Speaker 1: peculiar because the beginner it's set in space, and it's

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Speaker 1: like these people being woken up in cryo sleep cry asleep,

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Speaker 1: and they have this whole, very belabored thing, and the

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Speaker 1: whole thrust of the movie is that they remind them

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Speaker 1: who they are and where they're from and all this,

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Speaker 1: and the suggestion is that Earth has been destroyed by

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Speaker 1: global warming. All that stuff, except one big problem. The

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Speaker 1: space stuff is not actually filmed in the aspect ratio

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Speaker 1: of the sphere. So you've just got this huge screen

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Speaker 1: with this tiny picture like you can see it. But

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Speaker 1: it looks terrible, right, it looks like ass But the

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Speaker 1: actual main thing is genuinely really cool as the most

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Speaker 1: impressive spatial audio I've ever seen. The screen is a

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Speaker 1: it has depth to him. Yeah, you can hear a

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Speaker 1: guy shout from the front of the screen to the

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Speaker 1: back of the screen. It's very cool. It looks amazing

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Speaker 1: for the amount of money it costs. It's a bloody

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Speaker 1: joke though, right right, yeah.

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Speaker 4: The yeah, we've talked about there, just like being there

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Speaker 4: from the outside with the like high death weird.

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Speaker 1: Like the ads of Salesforce Einstein.

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Speaker 4: Are they doing heads now? When we were there the

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Speaker 4: NBA Summer League and there's just a big basketball and

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Speaker 4: it was just the surreal there being like a high

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Speaker 4: definition basketball on the like hazy skyline, but then it

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Speaker 4: would turn into that eyeball. Yeah, yeah, I know I'm

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Speaker 4: good on that. Yeah, but but now it's like ads.

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Speaker 1: It's adds. Yeah, well, just like a miscellaneous image just

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Speaker 1: purple for some reason, right, just anything, Right. I do

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Speaker 1: think they should just have a big eye the whole time. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And they should, and it should very aggressively focus on

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Speaker 1: one point.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel freaked out.

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Speaker 1: So like one guy who's just coming off whatever he's

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Speaker 1: on is.

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Speaker 3: Like, no, God abound me, and.

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Speaker 2: Don't do it, don't do it, don't do it.

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Speaker 1: And it's just there's a TikTok where someone did that

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Speaker 1: where it's just his face going searching for perverts or

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Speaker 1: something like that. I do think that they should do

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Speaker 1: that as well. They should have a pervert.

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Speaker 4: Watch what's what's do you think is underrated?

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Speaker 1: So let's see yoga. I know this is a weird one.

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Speaker 1: I'm changing. I know I'm changing a bit, but yoga

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Speaker 1: yoga recently, and I'll tell you I've been doing it

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Speaker 1: a few months. You want to know. I started off

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Speaker 1: really bad, and I think I'm worse, but it's very good,

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Speaker 1: Like I feel good after it, not during it. I

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Speaker 1: feel very bad, but also I'm intimately aware that my

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Speaker 1: body is fragile and terrible, but there's something quite fun

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Speaker 1: about it. And I do it on my own. Don't

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Speaker 1: want to done a few classes with people height it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to be around people. I look and

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Speaker 1: sound awful. I make these terrible noises I smell. And

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Speaker 1: that's even before I do yoga. Not just kidding, but

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Speaker 1: it's I I love it. And also the amount of

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Speaker 1: big strong men I know who have just been like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: Yoga's it's like, you know, it's baby stuff. It's like, no,

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Speaker 1: this is incredibly hard. Yeah, it's more of a challenge

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Speaker 1: than anything else I'm doing.

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Speaker 2: For sure.

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Speaker 4: Mobility is such an underrated aspect of being healthy I

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Speaker 4: think people don't understand is like just the ability to

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Speaker 4: like turn your back in the shower without stressing your muscles.

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Speaker 3: Uh yeah, being really put in my back out trying

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Speaker 3: to like wash my ass crack the other morning, and

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Speaker 3: I was like, I gotta fuck it.

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Speaker 2: I have to really stretching.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it gonna save me from washing my ass crack

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Speaker 3: in the shower.

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Speaker 1: Is the twenty first century, I shouldn't have to do

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Speaker 1: it anymore.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And what my explaining to me as rigid as pass.

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Speaker 1: This isn't the future. I should be able to be good.

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Speaker 1: I should be in a perfect L shape at all

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Speaker 1: times and still able to wipe my arms. Exactly where

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Speaker 1: is it, sam Ortman? Why can't I do that?

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Speaker 2: Come on answers?

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Speaker 1: Just like the idea of yelling at sam Ortman about

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Speaker 1: a bid day. Sorry, Yeah, what's something you think is overrated? Croissants?

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Speaker 4: M hmm.

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Speaker 1: I've got a croissant this morning. I was looking forward

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Speaker 1: to our beer and it's everywhere, it's all over me

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Speaker 1: and wearing a black shirts covering croissant barely got any

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00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:36,960
Speaker 1: matter to actually eat. It's very pissed off about this.

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Speaker 1: I originally told you that getting up early was my

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Speaker 1: overrated thing, and I still stand by the but croissants

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Speaker 1: today I'm taking them down. No, I'm not going to

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00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:49,960
Speaker 1: tolerate this crap anymore. They're messy, there's not enough food

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00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:50,280
Speaker 1: in them.

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Speaker 4: There's only a bunch of hard They're just dissolve into

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Speaker 4: a bunch of crumbs.

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Speaker 1: They're like those are costs, like those Costco peanut bars

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Speaker 1: that you just bite them and they combust. You get

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Speaker 1: like two bites before the whole thing is just right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, isn't that like what?

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Speaker 3: Because I feel like the jank Costco Kirkland signature croissant

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Speaker 3: is the opposite, like it has no crumbs because it's

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Speaker 3: just so like just poised, yeah, versus like I guess

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Speaker 3: a good one is supposed to be that flaky version.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, man, give me the mushy, give me the cramp.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I need, I need the cramp. Put the crap

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Speaker 1: in my hull.

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Speaker 4: Put the crap in my whole new album new album

375
00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:35,560
Speaker 4: from the Tongues and the Jack Peeping to Phone Jacker

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Speaker 4: featuring Phone Jacker and Top in My Home.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:40,480
Speaker 1: Yeah.

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00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:44,560
Speaker 4: It is one of the hardest foods to eat on

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Speaker 4: the go without just covering yourself, making yourself look like

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Speaker 4: a backyard in autumn. You know, you're just like covered.

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00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:54,720
Speaker 1: Looking back out, and I'm not quite love that.

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00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:59,200
Speaker 4: Just nothing but crumbs all the way down. I'm already

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Speaker 4: like I'm not the not the neatest person.

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Speaker 2: In the world.

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00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:05,560
Speaker 1: So it's that makes two croissans.

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00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:08,000
Speaker 3: French people eat it with their hands. It's not a

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Speaker 3: forking knife job, right, a chroissant, are we like completely.

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00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:14,560
Speaker 1: Depict I think you meant to like slice it and

390
00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:16,720
Speaker 1: like put barter on it versus how I do it,

391
00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:19,040
Speaker 1: which is just like just kind of like put it

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Speaker 1: in my mouth bite and then it explodes everywhere.

393
00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:24,440
Speaker 4: Right, that's why you gotta take it down with one bite.

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00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:26,400
Speaker 4: I sold your problem, duck.

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00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:31,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, they say customarily you eat it with a napkin,

396
00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:34,720
Speaker 3: but you eat it with your hands rather than utensils.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I try that, Yeah, try maybe like.

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Speaker 4: Tear off a little pieces and they dip it maybe

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Speaker 4: into coffee.

400
00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:47,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like all right, Yeah, I don't know. All

401
00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:48,560
Speaker 1: I felt was disappointment, though.

402
00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:53,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, crumb cake is less crummy than fucking croissants.

403
00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:56,040
Speaker 1: If I can eat the crumbs grape, it's all the flights.

404
00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:56,760
Speaker 1: They're horrible.

405
00:19:57,119 --> 00:20:00,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, all right, great, overrated, underrated. Let's take a

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00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:02,840
Speaker 4: quick break and we'll come back and talk about the

407
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:19,800
Speaker 4: tech industry and why tech is underrated. And we're back.

408
00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:27,000
Speaker 4: We're back, and sort of recap. Google search used to be.

409
00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:28,800
Speaker 2: Good.

410
00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:34,439
Speaker 4: It was good, and I remember a time that that

411
00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:38,120
Speaker 4: was like the tech breakthrough that everyone was.

412
00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:41,240
Speaker 2: Like, fucking believe this shit, It's like magic.

413
00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:44,000
Speaker 1: They feel like it was a slow bun. Yeah, but

414
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:46,440
Speaker 1: then it just was so ubiquitous at some point that

415
00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:49,080
Speaker 1: it was just like people just assumed it would always work.

416
00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:51,800
Speaker 4: Yeah right, Yeah, there was like a time in the

417
00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:55,000
Speaker 4: late nineties early it's where people were like it's it

418
00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:58,560
Speaker 4: was cool. People are like here, let me google that, right,

419
00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:02,280
Speaker 4: or it was like you were like a verb or

420
00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:04,320
Speaker 4: like you knew how to use it too. It's like

421
00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:06,439
Speaker 4: you got to use quotation marks or got to use

422
00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:08,439
Speaker 4: signs between Google.

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00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:10,720
Speaker 2: That's why I use Alta Vista.

424
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:16,240
Speaker 1: Actually that's what someone say Google foo and sometime that's

425
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Speaker 1: a certain kind of guy.

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Speaker 3: But I mean, like, yeah, Ed, we've when the last

427
00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:23,119
Speaker 3: time you were talking, we were talking about the rotten economy,

428
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:25,520
Speaker 3: and I know we've made mention of just how Google's

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00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:29,119
Speaker 3: become just worse and worse, and then your recent episode

430
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:34,160
Speaker 3: about how Google just became an absolute, just unusable basically

431
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:39,199
Speaker 3: ad service just because as some of the words I understood,

432
00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:41,480
Speaker 3: and I was I was right there with you other

433
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:44,320
Speaker 3: times conceptually I knew where you were going, but I

434
00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:46,640
Speaker 3: couldn't quite put it all together intellectually.

435
00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:47,919
Speaker 2: So could you?

436
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:51,000
Speaker 3: Would you mind explaining just sort of this shift from

437
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,800
Speaker 3: this like code yellow change that occurred, or this code

438
00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:58,680
Speaker 3: yellow moment into this basically glorified ad server we have now,

439
00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:02,200
Speaker 3: But please explain it as if I am an ignorant

440
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:05,040
Speaker 3: person that was distracted by a toddler while.

441
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:08,520
Speaker 1: They were listening. No problem. So the episode I wrote

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00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:13,280
Speaker 1: and the news accompanying newsletter was about in two thousand

443
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:16,280
Speaker 1: and I'm now going to put it up slide eighteen

444
00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:19,439
Speaker 1: or eighteen correct, because the dates are important. Yes, So

445
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:21,880
Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen there was a low called Ben Gomes

446
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:24,200
Speaker 1: who is the head of Google Search. Ben Gomes had

447
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:27,920
Speaker 1: been at Google since nineteen ninety nine, so basically the

448
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,480
Speaker 1: beginning he worked directly with Soga and Larry. He is

449
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:33,400
Speaker 1: and there are tons of articles about him where everything

450
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:37,000
Speaker 1: he talks about he's talking like a Renaissance painter. He's like,

451
00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:39,960
Speaker 1: I believe the connectivity between dating, like he's so romantic

452
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:43,679
Speaker 1: about it. So on February fifth, twenty nineteen, he gets

453
00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:46,800
Speaker 1: through a connection of events something called a code yellow,

454
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:48,760
Speaker 1: which is an internal Google thing that says there is

455
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,680
Speaker 1: a problem that's significant. There are higher codes, but they're

456
00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:55,440
Speaker 1: extremely rare. Code yellow itself is actually pretty rare. So

457
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,040
Speaker 1: what happened was this code yellow was the revenue and

458
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:01,159
Speaker 1: ad side of Google saying Google Search, you are not

459
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:05,040
Speaker 1: making us enough money. You need to make us more money.

460
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:07,760
Speaker 1: And also, and this is very important, the amount of

461
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:12,119
Speaker 1: queries going into Google is not growing enough. Now, little

462
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:17,840
Speaker 1: side note for you. Queries in this case is referring

463
00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:20,080
Speaker 1: to the amount of times that people search. Now, if

464
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:22,960
Speaker 1: you think about it for just a second, is that

465
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:28,360
Speaker 1: necessarily connected to how good Google is? Not necessarily. In fact,

466
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,760
Speaker 1: if there are less queries, maybe Google's better anywound what

467
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:34,960
Speaker 1: they were looking for, right, yes, which does not work

468
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:41,040
Speaker 1: for Google. So Google is then in this little futz

469
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:42,959
Speaker 1: of the code yellow, and between Ben Gomes and some

470
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,840
Speaker 1: other guys, there's a conversation where he says, Hey, guys,

471
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,080
Speaker 1: I feel like Google is getting too close to the money.

472
00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:52,760
Speaker 1: Google seems to only care about growth. And after about

473
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,159
Speaker 1: a month they resolve the code yellow, and there's a

474
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:57,359
Speaker 1: big email thread and there's a ton of emails that

475
00:23:57,400 --> 00:23:59,280
Speaker 1: I'm just leaving out, but I'm sum racing as quick

476
00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:02,080
Speaker 1: as possible. There's also on the sidelines this guy called

477
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:05,359
Speaker 1: Jerry Dishler, who was one of these noxious VP types,

478
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:07,560
Speaker 1: who was kind of like, yeah, guys, we need to

479
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 1: make more queries and we need to make more money,

480
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:13,320
Speaker 1: so could you just do that? So the code yellow

481
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:15,000
Speaker 1: comes to an end, and it turns out that the

482
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:18,160
Speaker 1: guy behind it is a guy called Prabagar Ragavan, who

483
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:20,959
Speaker 1: was then the head of Advertising it head of ads

484
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:24,000
Speaker 1: on Google, and Ben Gom sends out a thing to

485
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:26,200
Speaker 1: a bunch of people who are all congratulating each other,

486
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 1: saying we got through this great job everyone. Prabaga responds saying, yeah, actually,

487
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:34,960
Speaker 1: engineering did that. You didn't do it. He didn't do anything.

488
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:35,919
Speaker 2: Wow.

489
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:40,119
Speaker 1: So so these emails came out through a Department of

490
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 1: Justice is antitrust hearing, and I realized this is a

491
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 1: lot of history. In twenty twenty, Brabaga becomes head of

492
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 1: Google Search and then goes he takes over Google Search

493
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:53,560
Speaker 1: from this ideal from the idealist who worked on Google

494
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:57,439
Speaker 1: Search from the beginning, right, so he came in, he

495
00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 1: was basically meshed him out. And also, to be clear,

496
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:04,919
Speaker 1: this queries metric is insane. Having more queries means nothing.

497
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,280
Speaker 1: And in fact, these emails kind of detail that he

498
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:10,560
Speaker 1: takes over in twenty twenty. Now, if you really think

499
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:13,199
Speaker 1: about it, Google started to get really bad in like

500
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, twenty twenty, and has got significantly worse constantly

501
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:20,720
Speaker 1: since twenty twenty. End of twenty nine, well, mid twenty

502
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:24,160
Speaker 1: nineteen they added this to mobile, but they put it

503
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,680
Speaker 1: fully on to desktop as well. In twenty twenty, they

504
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 1: maybe changed to make it harder to tell when something

505
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:32,160
Speaker 1: is an AD on bribble now.

506
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I definitely noticed that change.

507
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,359
Speaker 1: They made a bunch of changes to make Google worse.

508
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, he used to be pretty easy. There was like

509
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 4: a background. It seemed like pretty clear that they had

510
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 4: a internal discussion and we're like, well, we don't want

511
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:51,720
Speaker 4: the product, we don't want to be actively tricking people into.

512
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,360
Speaker 1: Well they they it was funnier than that. They were

513
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 1: just like, yeah, we need to see the numbers go up.

514
00:25:56,840 --> 00:26:01,440
Speaker 1: Please make number go higher. Now, line go up now, yep.

515
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 4: But yeah, like during the two thousands, like it was

516
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 4: like there was a balance of like, we need this

517
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 4: to be a product, a product that people want to use,

518
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 4: and we need to make money off of ads. But

519
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:19,399
Speaker 4: they've hit a point where they don't really give a

520
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 4: shit if it's a product that people want to use.

521
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 4: It seems like it's that.

522
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,640
Speaker 1: And also within these emails, and again this is from

523
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:31,400
Speaker 1: the Department of Justice, is suit against Google for monopoly.

524
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:34,639
Speaker 1: So right, hey, what monopoly could they have?

525
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 2: Right?

526
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:39,960
Speaker 1: And what's really stark about it is what mister Rugavan's

527
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:43,479
Speaker 1: previous job was. So can you think of a what

528
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:47,479
Speaker 1: would the worst job that could be previously held by

529
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:49,880
Speaker 1: someone running Google Search? Just think about it for a second.

530
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 1: You might not get it, but just think what is

531
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:54,920
Speaker 1: the worst company he could have worked for that isn't

532
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 1: like I don't know deffinctively. Yeah, different companies, Like one of.

533
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 4: The worst would be Google, as they're like, wait, driving revenue.

534
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 1: Company within this period be not good at their job.

535
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 1: I'll skip to it. Mister Ragavan ran search at Yahoo

536
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:17,680
Speaker 1: Watch two thousand and five to twenty twelve. In that period,

537
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,119
Speaker 1: they went from I think like a thirty three percent

538
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:24,119
Speaker 1: market share versus Google's thirty six percent to literally doing

539
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,200
Speaker 1: a deal where bing would power Yahoo. Yeah.

540
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:29,880
Speaker 4: Yea, let me just say in fact check you real quick,

541
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 4: let me go Yahoo that Nope, never said.

542
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 1: And she says he's great and has a huge dick. Crazy. No,

543
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:42,119
Speaker 1: but it's crazy because you read this thing, and you

544
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 1: read this story, and you read the emails, and I

545
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 1: was writing it and I was like, is this someone

546
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:51,960
Speaker 1: messing with? This is ridiculous, right, because the emails are

547
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 1: so grim. There's one with this guy is enginey called

548
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 1: Shashi Saka, who's like, can we tell Sundhar Pushai about

549
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 1: this and stop this? Two that's the CEO of Google

550
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:04,480
Speaker 1: and his former job was Mackenzie.

551
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:05,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

552
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 4: They're on the right side of a lot of things.

553
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:12,360
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, bread prices, Oxycrton Yeah yeah yeah.

554
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:16,160
Speaker 1: And it's wild because you read this story and you're

555
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,480
Speaker 1: like it couldn't be this obvious, could it? And the

556
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 1: timeline is just perfect, and I will I will actually

557
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:26,360
Speaker 1: say something. I'm previewing, something I'm working on. The Only

558
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 1: time I've ever seen worse than this story is in

559
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 1: my next newsletter. About Facebook. Yeah, well you don't have

560
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 1: emails in this chain where someone is like, yeah, actually

561
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 1: it's good. The product sucks, right, I actually like this,

562
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 1: this is good. I've got documents where there's someone writing, yeah,

563
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 1: here are the changes we've made at Facebook to increase

564
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 1: engagement that made Facebook worse.

565
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, worse for the.

566
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 1: User and it And guess who guess what COO of

567
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 1: Facebook Sheryl Samberg until twenty twenty two McKinsey.

568
00:28:59,400 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 2: Yeah.

569
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 1: The people that run Facebook right now, or product managers

570
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 1: or growth people. This is the this is tying it

571
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 1: back to Google. The people in charge are management concerns,

572
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 1: ads people, revenue people. They're not the people who build anything.

573
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 1: They are parasites.

574
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's sort of like what yeah, private equity does

575
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:21,479
Speaker 3: to like any other business, Like, we don't know this

576
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 3: business innately at all. We just know how to make

577
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 3: the line go up. And if that means everything falls apart,

578
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 3: like then great, well.

579
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 1: They're going to do.

580
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 3: We have the monopoly right right. What was the way

581
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 3: that search human was making ads before or making like

582
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 3: generating revenue before the ads or they're just saying we

583
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 3: need to.

584
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 1: Blas them so Search But to be clear, at this

585
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 1: point in like twenty nineteen, Search was making them tens

586
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 1: of billions of dollars. Sure, it wasn't like it was

587
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 1: a fledgling business and they were like, oh, we got

588
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 1: to grow up everyone. This was a business printing money.

589
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 2: Right.

590
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 1: It was a beloved product that everybody used that everyone

591
00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 1: was like, Man, I'm glad that Google exists. I'm glad

592
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 1: that Google isn't bad, right, And it was almost kind

593
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 1: of magical. You just find everything now because the people

594
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 1: in charge are thinking, how do we keep people on

595
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 1: Google more? How do we make people use Google more?

596
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 1: Versus how do we make Google good? Yeah, it sucks,

597
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: and it's across almost every tech platform you look at.

598
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 1: This is because I spoke about the rock economy last time,

599
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 1: but since then I've done a lot of work actually

600
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 1: covering the actual rot. Because you can speak big picture

601
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 1: and you can say, okay, yeah things are bad, thing,

602
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 1: bad people bad, look at bad person. But when you

603
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 1: see in start writing how these people act and the grimness,

604
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 1: the craven nature of the way these people work, it's

605
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 1: it's stomach churning, turning. I forget which one it is,

606
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 1: and it's just it's disgraceful. But also, these people have names.

607
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 1: I genuinely think that just by saying Propagar, Ragavan, sun

608
00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 1: uppershy all them, Sheryl Sandberg, last Batch, like all of

609
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 1: these people have names. I'm not saying do anything. I'm

610
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 1: just saying that I genuinely think that they will stop

611
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 1: doing quite as many bad things if we keep saying it,

612
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 1: right because Probaca for a man who runs an one

613
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 1: hundred billion dollars a quarter, I think revenue property just

614
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 1: Google Search. He is very very quiet. No one had

615
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 1: really heard of it. He'd be mentioned as a Wired

616
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 1: art call. There was a ZDNA art call that called

617
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 1: him Yahoo's search master, which is one of the funniest

618
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 1: things considering how bad Yahoo got afterwards. But these people,

619
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 1: I'm not saying anything should happen. I'm just saying talk

620
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 1: about them. Saying their names will shame them, and perhaps

621
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 1: they won't feel much shame. But the more that these

622
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 1: people are called out for these specific actions, I think

623
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 1: change can actually happen. And also Google's in a real

624
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 1: pickle right now, like they they have buggered search up

625
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 1: quite horribly. If I'm honest, Yeah, Like I've never seen

626
00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 1: a product get destroyed this badly other than Facebook.

627
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think like if ads are the

628
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 3: guiding principle, I guess it, does that mean it's bad

629
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 3: for people looking for information? If if if part of

630
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 3: it means they're getting the best deal on the one

631
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:15,479
Speaker 3: of those indoor silent basketballs.

632
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 2: You know, just being serviced to them.

633
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 1: I'm trying to find the good and the bad. Yeah,

634
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:22,959
Speaker 1: but that's the thing. So advertising itself is not evil,

635
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 1: and for a while it wasn't perfect. I mean, anyway, it's.

636
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 3: An ad in a second, but.

637
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 1: I mean I definitely can't with ads on ads on

638
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:35,960
Speaker 1: better offline. Sorry, everyone, there's a lot of them. I

639
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 1: don't control it. But advertising has always been a problem

640
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 1: for search. In the original Google paper written by Sergey

641
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 1: Brin and Larry Page, they literally say that advertising can

642
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 1: create the wrong incentive for Google.

643
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 4: Yes, it's the main Yeah, it's the main conflict at

644
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 4: the center of the entire business. Like, this is not

645
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 4: coming out of nowhere. This is like a long held

646
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:09,240
Speaker 4: battle where they had people in positions of power who

647
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 4: were just who knew this was the battle. They were like,

648
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 4: there's going to be add people money, people who are

649
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 4: going to be constantly pushing us to decrease the quality

650
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 4: of the service we provide customers so that we can,

651
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 4: you know, make our ads more effective at getting them

652
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 4: to click right. Like that's basically what it comes down to.

653
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 1: I think what it is is that, Yeah, there was

654
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 1: always going to be some profit incentive. I don't think

655
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 1: that's possible to avoid, but it was a fairer trade.

656
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 1: It felt like it wasn't so oddly craven. Yeah, but

657
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 1: that's the thing. It's when you look at how they've acted,

658
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 1: especially in these emails, and it's where's your head? Look

659
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 1: for the man who killed Google Search? To listen to

660
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 1: the podcast these emails, the people fighting against this are

661
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 1: saying things out of a disaster movie. They're like, I'm

662
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 1: afraid that all we care about is growth. Money. Is

663
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 1: the money is getting too close to search? Ads are

664
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 1: getting too close to search? Is there any way we

665
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,439
Speaker 1: can stop this? I'm not signing up to this kind

666
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 1: of thing. This will create bad incentives. All of the

667
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:23,279
Speaker 1: warnings of that, and then some guys like noh, kram it,

668
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 1: you're gonna works. And now Ben Gomes is SVP of Education,

669
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 1: you know Google's education, Like that, sure, we all have

670
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:34,319
Speaker 1: interfaced with Google's education problem. I'm on the island from

671
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 1: the prisoner. He's gone. This man has been put in

672
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 1: a box, probably because they can't fire him, and he's

673
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 1: much more valuable in the corner than he is out

674
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 1: there talking to people like me. Yeah, right right, because

675
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 1: I would absolutely I would be on a plane to

676
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 1: go and talk to her. But like, hey, Ben goes.

677
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 4: But it's the same thing. We've talked about this with

678
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 4: Dei and you know other you know, with environmental policies.

679
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:05,280
Speaker 4: When companies are asked to pay attention to the environmental impact,

680
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 4: it will be popular and it will be entertained by

681
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 4: them for a while, you know, like for Google it

682
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:15,799
Speaker 4: lasted almost an entire decade, But like that was the

683
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 4: main battle that's happening within Search is like, Okay, we're

684
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:22,319
Speaker 4: trying to make this product better. The money people are

685
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 4: trying to you know, take it over, and eventually it

686
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 4: just they wear you down because Wall Street is ultimately

687
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 4: the thing that the people at the very top end

688
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 4: up getting kind of inundated with to the point that

689
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 4: it's like what you know, it's their entire incentive structure.

690
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:42,880
Speaker 4: So just feel like, yeah, the whole thing is just

691
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:47,840
Speaker 4: management people and above conjugating the desires of Wall Street

692
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:51,840
Speaker 4: down through the people who are actually building products that

693
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 4: customers use. And you know, basically that is the conflict

694
00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 4: that we're seeing happen over and over again. And the

695
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:03,880
Speaker 4: people who care about the quality of the product, or

696
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 4: care about the initiative to make their company more diverse,

697
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 4: or the people who care about the environmental impact of

698
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:17,239
Speaker 4: their company like that eventually always seems like it gets

699
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 4: drummed out by Wall Street and gets treated as unrealistic

700
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:23,799
Speaker 4: and idealistic and childish by Wall Street, who ends up

701
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 4: only caring about, you know, profitability.

702
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:30,319
Speaker 1: And what's crazy is Wall Street loves plenty of very

703
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:34,360
Speaker 1: bad companies. Tesla is a garbage company, but it's a

704
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:37,319
Speaker 1: meme stock now. It does no connection to reality, right,

705
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 1: Meta as a company has burned like fifteen billion dollars

706
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:44,839
Speaker 1: I think, or something like that on the metaverse, which

707
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 1: is never happening. But also they have made Facebook and

708
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 1: Instagram borderline unusable, and Wall Street loves them because they

709
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 1: print money. What's insane is all these companies had to

710
00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 1: do was provide a decent service and just make them better,

711
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:02,840
Speaker 1: and they could just print money run them like a casino,

712
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:06,360
Speaker 1: like just we don't want to mess with the winning formula.

713
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 1: That's why casinos look the way they do for so long,

714
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:12,319
Speaker 1: because they have a supply and demand thing and they

715
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 1: work it very nicely, but they know touching that little

716
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 1: balance canno the whole thing off. And it's crazy. It

717
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:22,479
Speaker 1: makes me feel a little bit crazy like it does

718
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:24,960
Speaker 1: because as I mentioned earlier, when I wrote The Row Economy,

719
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 1: I had a few public things and I looked at

720
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 1: and I was like, yeah, this makes sense. This is

721
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 1: this is a strong theory. It's backed up by things

722
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 1: I've read. Seeing it in action, really and I'm already

723
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:36,440
Speaker 1: kind of pissy. I'm kind of a pissy missy by

724
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:40,360
Speaker 1: defare but reading what they're doing, and like some of

725
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 1: these Facebook things I've got coming as well. That company.

726
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 1: I used to think that Google was the worst one,

727
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 1: but Facebook is Mark Zuckerbok's genuinely evil, as are all

728
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,160
Speaker 1: the people and gLite and Schultz and all these other people.

729
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 1: There are so many people at Facebook who are just

730
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 1: do not care. They don't care about the user. I

731
00:37:57,719 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 1: kind of admire that there are people at Google who

732
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 1: do right, and I think that only makes what Probaga

733
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 1: Ragavan did more evil because he's just like, no, Na,

734
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:11,279
Speaker 1: don't listen to the bloke who built this crap. No,

735
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 1: make more money, now, make money, now, make money, now,

736
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 1: make money for the machines. So I could make the

737
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:20,440
Speaker 1: search engine worse and get more money now what. And

738
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 1: all they had to do was just kind of leave

739
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 1: it alone. But guess what, that doesn't create eternal growth

740
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:27,800
Speaker 1: in the street. Also, the real change was twenty fifteen

741
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:31,319
Speaker 1: when Sundar came men McKenzie boy and the mckinziye people.

742
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:33,880
Speaker 1: The moment they touch it, they got the the brown

743
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:36,800
Speaker 1: midas touch Yeah, turns everything to poopy.

744
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 2: It sucks.

745
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:40,880
Speaker 1: It sucks so bad. Because they didn't have to do this,

746
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,759
Speaker 1: they could have. Still Google would probably if they left

747
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:46,359
Speaker 1: it in a good condition and didn't really touch it

748
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 1: for seven years, probably still print like sixty seventy eight

749
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:53,799
Speaker 1: billion dollars a quarter. Because it's so ubiquitous. They pay

750
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:58,880
Speaker 1: Apple like ten billion dollars. Yeah, I think right to

751
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:01,920
Speaker 1: make it exclusive on I as well. It's just insane.

752
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:05,360
Speaker 1: It's really insane. And I think the especially given what

753
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 1: I've seen of the Facebook stuff, much of it already

754
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:09,840
Speaker 1: out there, is I reckon behind the curtain. There's a

755
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 1: lot of companies like this. I wouldn't be surprised if

756
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 1: the Boeing stuff is going to reveal a lot more

757
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 1: like this as well. But within the tech industry, this

758
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:21,319
Speaker 1: is what is happening, and this is what happens when

759
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:24,719
Speaker 1: you don't have the people who build stuff running software

760
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:29,520
Speaker 1: or hardware, you just get McKinsey scam artists who crap

761
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 1: up everything forever.

762
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:33,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like the same thing that happened that's happened

763
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:36,840
Speaker 3: with the film industry, where people in the marketing accounting

764
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:40,799
Speaker 3: departments displaced the actual creatives who are developing films, and.

765
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:42,239
Speaker 4: They're like, no, no, no, no, no, these are the movies

766
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 4: that make the line go up. Do we know anything

767
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 4: about movies or storytelling?

768
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:45,080
Speaker 2: You no.

769
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:48,480
Speaker 1: Let me give you a good example. Microsoft, they just

770
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:52,360
Speaker 1: shut down a number of studios, including the one I

771
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 1: forget what the name, Tokyo based studio called that made

772
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 1: a game called Hi Fi Rush, incredibly successful first party

773
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 1: title eclusive to Xbox NPC. Of course, great game. They

774
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 1: shut down the studio and a bunch of other ones.

775
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 1: Then immediately the next day, and I think the Verge

776
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:11,520
Speaker 1: had this one as well. It was like Microsoft says

777
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 1: they need to make more games like the one that

778
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 1: the studio they shut down. Mate, Like they were like,

779
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 1: we need smaller indie games that people love, right, And

780
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 1: it's like you just killed the company that did you

781
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:27,879
Speaker 1: And it's so obvious, and it's so obvious. And also

782
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:32,319
Speaker 1: I'm not even sure it's good business, right, I'm not

783
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:34,800
Speaker 1: sure they're actually making or saving more money.

784
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 2: I don't know.

785
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:38,799
Speaker 1: Well, Google, yeah, they're definitely making money handover. This same

786
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 1: thing with Facebook, but these things with game studios in particular,

787
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:43,720
Speaker 1: and the same with entertainment. It's like, you're not actually

788
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 1: making money off of this. You're just like, I gotta

789
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get find fifty million dollars somewhere. Can we

790
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 1: just kill that movie we filmed exactly? We just not

791
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:56,920
Speaker 1: release it. Can we take that off tax return? The

792
00:40:56,960 --> 00:41:00,200
Speaker 1: other rush should close that loophole, by the way, that's

793
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:04,359
Speaker 1: if I can't deduct a boat, they shouldn't be able

794
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:10,880
Speaker 1: to deduct Wiley Coyote and His Courtroom Drama.

795
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:10,360
Speaker 2: Not the other movies.

796
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:12,319
Speaker 1: But also the other thing is I think all these

797
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:15,440
Speaker 1: tech companies don't realize at some point people are not

798
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:17,719
Speaker 1: going to care anymore. They're going to stop using these

799
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 1: products and they're not going to come back, right, But

800
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:25,319
Speaker 1: the actual user churn is going to happen.

801
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 4: So that would require them to no longer be a monopoly.

802
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:29,520
Speaker 2: Right.

803
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 4: It feels like that's the thing that like the actual

804
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:37,600
Speaker 4: anti trust lawsuits need to like come through and actually

805
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 4: make it so that they don't have these enormous.

806
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 1: I mean, that's never going to happen, right. However, the

807
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:49,760
Speaker 1: thing that will I think is not what people are expecting, is, oh,

808
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:52,279
Speaker 1: they'll stop. They won't stop using Google because they need

809
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:56,279
Speaker 1: a search engine unless they don't, right, unless people just

810
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:59,879
Speaker 1: change their habits to move away from search engines. Now,

811
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:04,400
Speaker 1: search engines are bad if they don't use Facebook anymore.

812
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:09,719
Speaker 1: Like you've used Facebook recently, I'm sure it's terrible. You

813
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 1: can't even see the people you want to see. Same

814
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:14,600
Speaker 1: with Instagram. I mean you run an account for the

815
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:16,960
Speaker 1: daily Zeitgeist. I'm sure you know you put it out

816
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:19,400
Speaker 1: and you're like, of the thousands of people that follow you,

817
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 1: like twelve see it. Because of the algorithm. At some

818
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 1: point people just go go, I don't care, I just

819
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:30,759
Speaker 1: won't use that. Facebook has already had churn they've had

820
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:33,479
Speaker 1: over the last ten years, a decent amount of churn.

821
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:36,360
Speaker 1: They've picked up new users, but it can go the

822
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:39,080
Speaker 1: other way. And the problem that these companies have is

823
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:41,160
Speaker 1: none of the people who built any of it, with

824
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:45,120
Speaker 1: Facebook being the exception, they're just a completely different animal.

825
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 1: For the most part, the people who built these companies

826
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 1: aren't there anymore, or they've been shoved in the corner

827
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:53,240
Speaker 1: and going out to the public and saying, hi, guys.

828
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:56,759
Speaker 1: So Google Search blue. It was so bad, but it's

829
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:59,879
Speaker 1: good now people are gonna be like, yeah, sure, mate.

830
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:05,919
Speaker 4: Domino's Pizza. We understand our product has been bad. That's

831
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:08,960
Speaker 4: because we're trying to save money, right.

832
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:13,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just very depressing. The whole thing makes me

833
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:16,360
Speaker 1: very angry. But hey, it's it's broadcast, baby.

834
00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, all right, let's say, let's take a quick break

835
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:21,280
Speaker 4: because I do want to talk about and Ron Musk

836
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:22,759
Speaker 4: and what's going on over there.

837
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 2: We will be right back.

838
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 4: And we're back.

839
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:37,040
Speaker 2: We're back.

840
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:40,200
Speaker 4: And so this is something that's kind of intersected with

841
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:43,439
Speaker 4: our show in you know, the sense that we all

842
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:47,839
Speaker 4: know that Elon Musk is lying shithead and doesn't really

843
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:51,400
Speaker 4: know what he's doing. When he starts takes over a

844
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:55,399
Speaker 4: massive company. And then we also covered the video they

845
00:43:55,440 --> 00:44:00,760
Speaker 4: made early that showed a self driving car like driving

846
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 4: from the Tesla headquarters to somebody's house or whatever.

847
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:04,640
Speaker 1: It was, the fraudulent one.

848
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, and then the we we covered it when it

849
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:13,359
Speaker 4: was revealed last year that it was just bullshit, like

850
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:16,120
Speaker 4: they they had used three D mapping on a predetermined

851
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:19,319
Speaker 4: route from a house in Memo Park to Tesla's then headquarters.

852
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:23,919
Speaker 4: Drivers intervened to take control and test runs. When trying

853
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:26,400
Speaker 4: to show the Model X could park itself with no driver,

854
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:33,080
Speaker 4: a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla's parking lot. Yeah,

855
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:37,719
Speaker 4: in the in their own part, So that that was

856
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:40,800
Speaker 4: like an impressive lie. But then there's also these stories

857
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:45,279
Speaker 4: that keep coming out about the autopilot, like leading to

858
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 4: people's deaths and you know, horrifying fatal car accidents. And

859
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:53,960
Speaker 4: so you recently had an episode where you kind of

860
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 4: went through what's been going on behind the scenes, and

861
00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 4: it started with this investigation from the NTSB and that

862
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:07,759
Speaker 4: and now it's gone over to NITZA because so NTSB

863
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 4: are the they're the National Transportation Safety Board, I think,

864
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 4: and they they're the one. They're like the hard asses

865
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:16,880
Speaker 4: from the plane crash movies.

866
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:20,040
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I think like I think the I think

867
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:22,719
Speaker 1: knits is the one that can take action that stuff is.

868
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:26,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, so NTSB was like, hey, you should look into

869
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:29,360
Speaker 4: this Tesla thing like years ago around the time of

870
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 4: that video, and then National Highway Traffic Safety Administration KNITSA

871
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:37,920
Speaker 4: started an investigation at that time, and they started collecting

872
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:41,480
Speaker 4: data from Tesla but also across the industry with like

873
00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:47,520
Speaker 4: other cars that had some sort of autopilot function, and

874
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:52,880
Speaker 4: eventually we're like, okay, so we found that this Tesla

875
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:59,280
Speaker 4: autopilot feature is causing fatal car accidents, and the problem

876
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:03,799
Speaker 4: is unique to Tesla, Like it's actually a problem that

877
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:08,800
Speaker 4: the rest of these other companies are not having because

878
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:10,839
Speaker 4: they're being more careful with it.

879
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:15,719
Speaker 1: Yes and yeah, So the big thing was that this

880
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:20,320
Speaker 1: Knitzer rapport that basically found that Tesla was It's actually

881
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:23,759
Speaker 1: kind of a gift for personal injury lawyers. The autopilot

882
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:26,759
Speaker 1: gives people a full sense of security, but also it

883
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:31,120
Speaker 1: doesn't Sometimes when people try and disengage the autopilot to

884
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:35,960
Speaker 1: make a move on the road, it doesn't disengage, which

885
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:39,280
Speaker 1: causes another accident. There are multiple times where the existence

886
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:43,040
Speaker 1: of autopilot made an accident worse. The Tesla has also

887
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:48,640
Speaker 1: really horribly marketed this as autopilot, autonomous, all these other things,

888
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:50,839
Speaker 1: when it really is just and I'm going to eat

889
00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:53,880
Speaker 1: ed Nita Meyer, who is also on that episode, that

890
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:56,480
Speaker 1: it's kind of like watching a teenager drive but not

891
00:46:56,560 --> 00:46:59,719
Speaker 1: being able to control it quite as well. Right, And

892
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:03,520
Speaker 1: what's remarkable about this report is it just details how

893
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:05,919
Speaker 1: unsafe this tech was. And there's two different things. There's

894
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 1: full self driving, which is the one where you allegedly

895
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 1: give it a location, it drives and puts itself there,

896
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:14,839
Speaker 1: and then this autopilot, which is the auto lane keeping thing.

897
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:19,200
Speaker 1: In both of these cases, they're both unsafe, and they're

898
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 1: unsafe in a way that Tesla has made worse by

899
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:23,920
Speaker 1: the fact that I don't think they even save or

900
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:27,320
Speaker 1: the telemetry data. But there was a data collection issue,

901
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 1: which I realize sounds weird. But if you don't collect

902
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:35,840
Speaker 1: good data on each crash, how do you avert another crash,

903
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:39,439
Speaker 1: especially when your car is doing things autonomously and AI

904
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:43,120
Speaker 1: requires training data. I don't know, and neither does Elon,

905
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:47,799
Speaker 1: And it's so bizarre because any other company in the

906
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:50,800
Speaker 1: world this report would have killed them, but because Tesla

907
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 1: is this otherworldly shit pile where just Elon Musk has

908
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:57,200
Speaker 1: so much money to prop it up, it's kind of like,

909
00:47:57,400 --> 00:48:00,239
Speaker 1: what is it going to take here? But also any

910
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 1: personal injury attorney will just be able to go after them.

911
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:08,520
Speaker 1: It's a terrible report for Tesla then, because it's both

912
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:12,880
Speaker 1: as epic as it is based. He fired most of

913
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:17,440
Speaker 1: the team behind the supercharger network, which is Tesla's network

914
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 1: lets you charge fast, and they've also opened it up

915
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:21,400
Speaker 1: to other cars, and it's a big thing. They fired

916
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:24,680
Speaker 1: almost everybody. Elon Musk has now claimed, oh yeah, actually

917
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 1: we're putting half a billion dollars into this, like that's

918
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:31,520
Speaker 1: actually it's actually fine. But for the most part, there's

919
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:33,160
Speaker 1: a bunch of coverage up for around the time when

920
00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 1: they announced it a couple week or so ago, where

921
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:38,960
Speaker 1: there were people saying, I can't find someone at Tesla.

922
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:41,360
Speaker 1: There was someone on a YouTube or watch where a

923
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:44,319
Speaker 1: guy was talking about how a power utility could not

924
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:47,880
Speaker 1: find someone at Tesla to work with to install a

925
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:52,000
Speaker 1: new supercharger. All their people were gone, and it's so weird.

926
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:56,880
Speaker 1: It's just very weird because on one hand, this company

927
00:48:57,000 --> 00:49:00,359
Speaker 1: could keep chugging along for a while. On the other hand,

928
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:02,480
Speaker 1: he could also fall apart in the next few years.

929
00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:06,160
Speaker 1: It's not really obvious. They no longer have any real

930
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:12,959
Speaker 1: growth trajectory. Autopilot is incredibly incredibly unreliable, right, just it's

931
00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:13,720
Speaker 1: not safe.

932
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 4: They may, in a way, if they may, fundamentally fuck

933
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 4: up their entire business model exactly.

934
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:24,319
Speaker 1: And Edniamier mentioned as well that autopilot is actually a

935
00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:29,080
Speaker 1: fairly amazing business for Tesla. Most cars are very low

936
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:33,600
Speaker 1: margin businesses, but autopilots entirely margin. It's a Tesla thing.

937
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:36,759
Speaker 1: They effectively have monthly and annual recurring revenue from cars.

938
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:39,399
Speaker 1: It's genuinely great. It's a good business unless it gets

939
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:43,719
Speaker 1: made legal. Then it's not right. And on top of that,

940
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:47,520
Speaker 1: the cyber truck sucks. It's a bad truck. It's a

941
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:50,920
Speaker 1: bad car, it slices people's hands, it gets stuck in

942
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:54,279
Speaker 1: like a one inch bed of sand. It's not a

943
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:57,240
Speaker 1: good truck. So that's gone. That's not saving this company.

944
00:49:57,680 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 1: And then he did this thing where he said, oh,

945
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:01,960
Speaker 1: we're going to do robotaxis. Now that's kind of in

946
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:04,560
Speaker 1: the crapper because of the autopilot thing. So his only

947
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:07,279
Speaker 1: other thing is, oh, yeah, we're going to make the

948
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:10,560
Speaker 1: Model two and it will be twenty five thousand dollars.

949
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:15,480
Speaker 3: Oh good, Yeah, a cheaper, a cheaply made Tesla.

950
00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:20,200
Speaker 1: Tesla at this point is kind of insane, like if

951
00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:21,600
Speaker 1: he could pull it off, it would be huge. But

952
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:24,120
Speaker 1: at the same time, the Model three, which is the

953
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:29,160
Speaker 1: cheapest car right now, actually nearly bankrupted the business. Yeah,

954
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:32,040
Speaker 1: and on top of all of this, there was a

955
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:37,200
Speaker 1: class action suit against against the Tesla board about how

956
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:40,120
Speaker 1: the board had greenlit this fifty six billion dollar pay

957
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:43,680
Speaker 1: package for Elon Musk that got thrown out in Delaware courts.

958
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:47,200
Speaker 1: So they have to now reincorporate the board and add

959
00:50:47,239 --> 00:50:50,680
Speaker 1: some people who are independent of mister Musk. Now, mister

960
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:54,480
Speaker 1: Musk is trying to get around this. However, if he can't,

961
00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:58,319
Speaker 1: he's in real doodo because an independent Tesla board will

962
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:01,880
Speaker 1: probably try and fire him because he's a terrible CEO.

963
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:04,320
Speaker 1: He goes on his website he bought, he posts a

964
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:08,160
Speaker 1: bunch of was I racist and actually racist stuff, and

965
00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:13,080
Speaker 1: then he promises a bunch of stuff which pisss off

966
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:17,080
Speaker 1: everybody because he doesn't deliver it. And also he's a

967
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:21,279
Speaker 1: very annoying asshole. He's not fun. No one enjoys. He's

968
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:25,000
Speaker 1: not fun to work. He thinks he is Tony Stark.

969
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:28,960
Speaker 1: He's actually the Riddler, and it's just very he's a

970
00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:32,640
Speaker 1: very divorced riddler. I think that that's the best riddle

971
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:41,880
Speaker 1: this Batman. Yeah, where are my kids? About the count?

972
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:46,080
Speaker 3: That shareholder call though, that you know where the profits

973
00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:48,800
Speaker 3: were down fifty five percent, like even worse than analysts

974
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:51,160
Speaker 3: had thought. Yeah, And I always thought it was strange

975
00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:53,120
Speaker 3: when he did the things like nah ah or not

976
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:56,480
Speaker 3: even an automotive company, if you thought that you're so dumb,

977
00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:59,200
Speaker 3: or actually like a rope AI or what is it

978
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:00,880
Speaker 3: automation botics company?

979
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:02,160
Speaker 2: Is what he said, Tesla.

980
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:05,200
Speaker 1: I love that shit, Like no one's actually gonna get

981
00:52:05,239 --> 00:52:07,680
Speaker 1: Like if that was actually your business and you stop

982
00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:10,120
Speaker 1: selling costs, your company would shut down immediately.

983
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:10,960
Speaker 2: Okay.

984
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:13,760
Speaker 3: And that's just part of what his shell game essentially

985
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:15,839
Speaker 3: to try and be like, okay, man, we've definitely hit

986
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:17,719
Speaker 3: the wall there with the cyber truck. We're hitting the

987
00:52:17,719 --> 00:52:20,200
Speaker 3: wall here with autopilot. I just need to say something

988
00:52:20,239 --> 00:52:23,880
Speaker 3: that gives people a certain amount of like opium copium

989
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:28,359
Speaker 3: to pretend that this thing isn't completely just shitting the bed,

990
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:30,560
Speaker 3: which it seems like that's what is happening.

991
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:34,160
Speaker 1: And now the fifty four minutes ago, Tesla's head of

992
00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:35,879
Speaker 1: cyber truck manufacturing is out.

993
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:37,719
Speaker 2: I'll fix it.

994
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:40,960
Speaker 1: God damn it. That's the best guy they had. Oh

995
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:41,960
Speaker 1: is it really not?

996
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:48,440
Speaker 4: Is there a world where the AI self drive?

997
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:48,680
Speaker 8: It?

998
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:53,720
Speaker 4: Like just this whole bubble burst, Like it seems obvious

999
00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:57,040
Speaker 4: that all these massive companies that when you talk to

1000
00:52:57,120 --> 00:53:01,080
Speaker 4: people who pay attention to the market, the US economy,

1001
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:04,600
Speaker 4: which is you know, what they describe the stock market as,

1002
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:07,400
Speaker 4: but like they talk about how it's being propped up

1003
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:11,799
Speaker 4: by all these massive tech companies, and it feels like

1004
00:53:11,920 --> 00:53:15,319
Speaker 4: that it's a lot of like smoke and mirrors. You know,

1005
00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:19,640
Speaker 4: there was a time when people were over investing in

1006
00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:24,360
Speaker 4: technology that wasn't ready yet, like the original dot com

1007
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:28,920
Speaker 4: boom and bust like before like you know, decade before

1008
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:32,400
Speaker 4: the internet was capable of doing the things that it

1009
00:53:32,560 --> 00:53:34,680
Speaker 4: wanted to be and that people were investing in. Like

1010
00:53:34,719 --> 00:53:39,080
Speaker 4: I'm wondering if that happens with AI or what do

1011
00:53:39,160 --> 00:53:44,640
Speaker 4: you think the future looks like? Because it also feels

1012
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:48,800
Speaker 4: like maybe people are just too like there seems to

1013
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:51,600
Speaker 4: be an overall thing where Wall Street has recognized like

1014
00:53:51,640 --> 00:53:55,600
Speaker 4: they can just insulate themselves from the from reality a

1015
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:59,400
Speaker 4: little bit by just pretending and investing.

1016
00:53:59,840 --> 00:54:03,560
Speaker 1: So you mean AI writ large right outside of Tesla

1017
00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:07,640
Speaker 1: as well. Yes, So right now we're in maybe month

1018
00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:10,600
Speaker 1: three of like a six month to nine month horizon.

1019
00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:14,279
Speaker 1: I'm saying where AI has to start making money, right,

1020
00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:16,279
Speaker 1: It has to start making money, and it needs to

1021
00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:20,680
Speaker 1: start making profit because Google put and Amazon both put

1022
00:54:20,719 --> 00:54:24,640
Speaker 1: several billion dollars into Anthropic compared to Open Ai. Microsoft

1023
00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:27,560
Speaker 1: get thirteen billion dollars to Open AI, primarily in cloud

1024
00:54:27,560 --> 00:54:30,880
Speaker 1: credits to make the thing work. But also, who gives

1025
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:34,239
Speaker 1: a shit? What has AI actually done? And that is

1026
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:38,080
Speaker 1: the overwhelming feeling I'm having. And also, all of these

1027
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:40,640
Speaker 1: magical promises have been made of AI and then you

1028
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:43,319
Speaker 1: look at what they've actually done, it's kind of wank. Yeah,

1029
00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:46,200
Speaker 1: it's not very good at all. So right now we're

1030
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:50,319
Speaker 1: in kind of the exciting hype cycle where it's like, oh,

1031
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:53,640
Speaker 1: I can say AI and stock go up, but give

1032
00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:55,719
Speaker 1: them another quarter or two and things are going to

1033
00:54:55,760 --> 00:55:00,439
Speaker 1: start falling apart. So Adobe actually got hit very bad,

1034
00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:02,400
Speaker 1: Like They're stock kind of tumbled when they said they

1035
00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:04,480
Speaker 1: weren't sure when a revenue was coming out of AI.

1036
00:55:05,080 --> 00:55:07,280
Speaker 1: But the big ones to look at, like Microsoft and Google,

1037
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:10,520
Speaker 1: who have both put billions of billions into AI, if

1038
00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:14,640
Speaker 1: they can't start, if they can't show real growth there

1039
00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:19,360
Speaker 1: and at even revenue, not just profit. Revenue would be fine.

1040
00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:22,279
Speaker 1: The street would be happy. But at some point they're

1041
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:25,080
Speaker 1: going to say the hell is going on?

1042
00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:26,160
Speaker 2: Right?

1043
00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:29,359
Speaker 1: Like what like is this do anything? Yeah, You've got

1044
00:55:29,360 --> 00:55:31,600
Speaker 1: the Rabbit R one, which is this two hundred dollars

1045
00:55:32,239 --> 00:55:34,600
Speaker 1: box that claimed it would control your apps with AI,

1046
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:36,680
Speaker 1: and it turned out it just connects to like very

1047
00:55:36,719 --> 00:55:40,040
Speaker 1: weird scripts that barely work. All of these promises are

1048
00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:42,680
Speaker 1: coming to a head. All these people have said they're

1049
00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:44,440
Speaker 1: going to do all these things. It's going to be magical,

1050
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:46,600
Speaker 1: it's going to change our lives. I think that there's

1051
00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:48,200
Speaker 1: going to be a market term. But I think there's

1052
00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:51,560
Speaker 1: a sietal one as well. Yeah, because Apple's talking about

1053
00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:53,960
Speaker 1: putting open AI in Syria and that's fine whatever, but

1054
00:55:54,440 --> 00:55:56,319
Speaker 1: do you think people are going to use that and

1055
00:55:56,360 --> 00:56:00,560
Speaker 1: be like, Wow, I love chat GPT Now Well, they're

1056
00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:05,560
Speaker 1: just gonna be like, oh, Siri works, Yeah, okay, Siri works.

1057
00:56:05,600 --> 00:56:09,759
Speaker 1: By what all these billions have gone into AI, I

1058
00:56:09,840 --> 00:56:13,320
Speaker 1: can't name a single goddamn thing that this AI boom

1059
00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:14,799
Speaker 1: is done for me other than give me a lot

1060
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:16,840
Speaker 1: of things to cover, which is very useful.

1061
00:56:17,239 --> 00:56:18,239
Speaker 2: Yeah right, yeah.

1062
00:56:18,239 --> 00:56:20,400
Speaker 3: I mean the most is I've had fun with some

1063
00:56:20,560 --> 00:56:24,200
Speaker 3: of the music making AI things, and even then it's

1064
00:56:24,280 --> 00:56:26,719
Speaker 3: just fun. It's it's like a party trick. It's a

1065
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:29,640
Speaker 3: video game at best, where it's like, hey, man, just

1066
00:56:29,640 --> 00:56:31,600
Speaker 3: try and make it to do a reggae song about

1067
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:34,399
Speaker 3: RFK Junior's brain worms, it's like it kind of did

1068
00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:37,520
Speaker 3: a shitty job, and that's where it kind of ends.

1069
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:41,239
Speaker 1: That's AI. Hey we've got a really expensive machine to

1070
00:56:41,239 --> 00:56:43,480
Speaker 1: do a shitty job. I'll do that for way cheaper.

1071
00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:43,960
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1072
00:56:44,080 --> 00:56:47,360
Speaker 1: You watch someone half fast something. Ah, I'm the Michael

1073
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:50,440
Speaker 1: Jordan of half passing right exactly.

1074
00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:52,759
Speaker 3: And it's like, now I see like Sam Altman is

1075
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:55,840
Speaker 3: talking about like raising like trillions of dollars from like

1076
00:56:55,920 --> 00:56:58,440
Speaker 3: the Middle East, Like what the fuck is going on?

1077
00:56:58,600 --> 00:57:01,080
Speaker 3: Is that him trying to say like, well, no, there's

1078
00:57:01,080 --> 00:57:02,680
Speaker 3: there's something coming, there's something coming.

1079
00:57:02,719 --> 00:57:06,239
Speaker 4: I'm getting the Petro States to fucking buy into this thing.

1080
00:57:06,239 --> 00:57:10,280
Speaker 1: Now. Yeah, he's going through a country associated with chopping

1081
00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:14,040
Speaker 1: up a man and American resident. I believe that was great.

1082
00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:16,479
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, evil shit.

1083
00:57:17,160 --> 00:57:19,280
Speaker 1: So on top of that, what he's asking there for

1084
00:57:19,560 --> 00:57:21,800
Speaker 1: is he wants to create a more efficient chip so

1085
00:57:21,840 --> 00:57:26,760
Speaker 1: that AI will do something, because no one seems to

1086
00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:28,880
Speaker 1: really be filling in that part in the media doing

1087
00:57:28,880 --> 00:57:30,440
Speaker 1: a really bad job about this. He's like, yeah, I

1088
00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:32,840
Speaker 1: need seven trillion, and he's kind of walked it back

1089
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:35,520
Speaker 1: a bit. He's like, I didn't mean exactly seven trillion,

1090
00:57:35,840 --> 00:57:37,320
Speaker 1: but I need a lot of money to do this.

1091
00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:38,320
Speaker 2: That's five. Yeah.

1092
00:57:38,560 --> 00:57:41,520
Speaker 1: He's like, AI is inevitable, will be like a smart

1093
00:57:41,560 --> 00:57:45,160
Speaker 1: person that knows everything and does everything. Please let me

1094
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:49,520
Speaker 1: build new chips so that I can prove it. Yeah,

1095
00:57:49,560 --> 00:57:52,520
Speaker 1: And you'll notice he did an announcement today for some

1096
00:57:52,680 --> 00:57:55,000
Speaker 1: new GPT four thing and it's funny. There was a

1097
00:57:55,000 --> 00:57:56,560
Speaker 1: big run up to it and everyone there was a

1098
00:57:56,560 --> 00:58:01,240
Speaker 1: physical event and it's like, okay, we've got a new

1099
00:58:01,360 --> 00:58:05,120
Speaker 1: chat is chat GPT four. Oh. The O stands for omni,

1100
00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:08,200
Speaker 1: which offers greater responsiveness to voice prompts as well as

1101
00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:14,200
Speaker 1: better vision capabilities. Yeah, okay, Just to be clear, computer

1102
00:58:14,360 --> 00:58:16,919
Speaker 1: vision the ability of computer being able to see something

1103
00:58:16,920 --> 00:58:19,520
Speaker 1: and say that is a strawberry or whatever you find

1104
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:21,640
Speaker 1: it in like farming gear for example, been around for

1105
00:58:21,680 --> 00:58:24,640
Speaker 1: a decade happening before there's been AI that can understand

1106
00:58:24,720 --> 00:58:29,560
Speaker 1: voice and generative AI is slightly it's a bit faster

1107
00:58:29,680 --> 00:58:34,200
Speaker 1: on things like translation and voice stuff. But even then, okay,

1108
00:58:35,040 --> 00:58:37,320
Speaker 1: right now, what now? Do something?

1109
00:58:37,360 --> 00:58:38,560
Speaker 2: Do something with it?

1110
00:58:38,880 --> 00:58:42,200
Speaker 3: Do something, do something one thing right. The most I

1111
00:58:42,240 --> 00:58:43,760
Speaker 3: feel like that they can do is be like, we're

1112
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:46,240
Speaker 3: terrible for the climate. You guys like that if the

1113
00:58:46,560 --> 00:58:48,840
Speaker 3: centers are everywhere and we're like, yeah, I don't see worse.

1114
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:50,200
Speaker 2: Is this good fit you?

1115
00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:50,360
Speaker 5: Like?

1116
00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:53,480
Speaker 3: This must be profitable then, and like to your point too,

1117
00:58:53,520 --> 00:58:55,440
Speaker 3: no one wants to pay for it, Like I would

1118
00:58:55,480 --> 00:59:00,240
Speaker 3: never pay for some like stupid goofy songwriting AI. Like

1119
00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:03,080
Speaker 3: it's free, So I'm like, yeah, whatever, this is fine

1120
00:59:03,120 --> 00:59:05,200
Speaker 3: for five minutes. But to the point where you're like,

1121
00:59:05,320 --> 00:59:07,080
Speaker 3: all right, now do you want to get a subscription?

1122
00:59:07,240 --> 00:59:09,360
Speaker 3: Like hell no, I don't need a fucking subscription of

1123
00:59:09,400 --> 00:59:09,760
Speaker 3: this shit.

1124
00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:13,200
Speaker 1: Also, the other thing with the AI boom that no

1125
00:59:13,240 --> 00:59:15,760
Speaker 1: one seems to want to talk about is not only

1126
00:59:15,840 --> 00:59:20,040
Speaker 1: is it making no money, it's also costing a lot. Yeah, right,

1127
00:59:20,520 --> 00:59:24,520
Speaker 1: and everyone's putting it into stuff for some reason. Opening

1128
00:59:24,560 --> 00:59:27,680
Speaker 1: Eye makes a billion or more in revenue, and everyone

1129
00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:28,800
Speaker 1: kind of reported that being.

1130
00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:31,840
Speaker 8: Like yeah, look, huh, and then no one seems to

1131
00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:35,080
Speaker 8: have asked the question of any profit, because if they

1132
00:59:35,080 --> 00:59:37,200
Speaker 8: make a billion dollars in revenue and they don't make

1133
00:59:37,240 --> 00:59:40,640
Speaker 8: a profit, that is a problem, not a solution, right.

1134
00:59:40,560 --> 00:59:44,360
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, yeah, and it's yeah, I feel crazy. I

1135
00:59:44,360 --> 00:59:45,240
Speaker 1: feel crazy, man.

1136
00:59:46,120 --> 00:59:48,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a it's a crazy world. Well, thank you

1137
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:51,880
Speaker 4: for taking us into it. Of course, where can people

1138
00:59:52,200 --> 00:59:54,680
Speaker 4: find you? Follow you all that good stuff?

1139
00:59:55,120 --> 00:59:58,240
Speaker 1: Fuy me on Twitter, ed zitron edz it r awa

1140
00:59:58,240 --> 01:00:00,640
Speaker 1: and you can find me on blue Sky zytron best guy,

1141
01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:03,760
Speaker 1: don social, I want to say, And then you can

1142
01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:07,240
Speaker 1: find newsletter and podcast betrofline dot com. Shoot me an

1143
01:00:07,240 --> 01:00:09,400
Speaker 1: email easy at betrofline dot com.

1144
01:00:09,640 --> 01:00:12,280
Speaker 4: Amazing And is there a work of media that you've

1145
01:00:12,320 --> 01:00:12,880
Speaker 4: been enjoying.

1146
01:00:13,520 --> 01:00:17,920
Speaker 1: I just rewatched Seven Psychopaths as a classic green movie

1147
01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:19,680
Speaker 1: is by the guy who did him, Bruce. He's got

1148
01:00:19,680 --> 01:00:25,000
Speaker 1: Colin Farrell, Sam Rockwell, Tom Waits, Christopher Walken, all the greats,

1149
01:00:25,600 --> 01:00:28,360
Speaker 1: fantastic movies. It's also a beautiful hour and fifty minute

1150
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:29,960
Speaker 1: long hot damn.

1151
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:30,919
Speaker 2: How about that?

1152
01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:33,240
Speaker 4: Miles? Where can people find you? Is there a working

1153
01:00:33,320 --> 01:00:34,520
Speaker 4: media you've been enjoying?

1154
01:00:35,040 --> 01:00:38,200
Speaker 3: Find me on Twitter and Instagram and the like at

1155
01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:39,160
Speaker 3: Miles of Gray.

1156
01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:41,640
Speaker 4: If you like basketball, check Jack.

1157
01:00:41,440 --> 01:00:44,400
Speaker 3: And I out on Miles and Jack Got Mad Boosties.

1158
01:00:45,240 --> 01:00:48,160
Speaker 3: And also find me talking about ninety day fiance on

1159
01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:52,400
Speaker 3: four to twenty day fiance. A tweet I like is

1160
01:00:52,480 --> 01:00:58,080
Speaker 3: from at lord rat Squirt. I like big butts and

1161
01:00:58,160 --> 01:01:01,200
Speaker 3: I cannot lie. My friend here likes big butts and

1162
01:01:01,280 --> 01:01:06,880
Speaker 3: cannot tell the truth. You may ask us three questions.

1163
01:01:06,920 --> 01:01:08,600
Speaker 2: Amazing, that's very good.

1164
01:01:09,200 --> 01:01:13,000
Speaker 4: Robert Jones at Stanton Underscore Jones make up your mind

1165
01:01:13,160 --> 01:01:15,600
Speaker 4: tweeted one of the great things about being a dad

1166
01:01:15,680 --> 01:01:18,080
Speaker 4: is how easy it is to launder my own desire

1167
01:01:18,160 --> 01:01:22,600
Speaker 4: for ice cream through my children, and that is that.

1168
01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:26,480
Speaker 4: You can find me on Twitter at Jack Underscore. O'Brien,

1169
01:01:26,560 --> 01:01:29,160
Speaker 4: you can find us on Twitter at daily Zeitgeist. We're

1170
01:01:29,200 --> 01:01:31,760
Speaker 4: at the Daily Zeikeeist. On Instagram, we have a Facebook

1171
01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:34,439
Speaker 4: fanpage and a website Daily zeikeist dot com. Or post

1172
01:01:34,440 --> 01:01:37,520
Speaker 4: our episodes and our footnotes, we link off to the

1173
01:01:37,560 --> 01:01:39,800
Speaker 4: information that we talked about in today's episode, as well

1174
01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:43,520
Speaker 4: as a song that we think you might enjoy. Miles,

1175
01:01:43,520 --> 01:01:44,880
Speaker 4: what song do you think people might enjoy?

1176
01:01:45,560 --> 01:01:49,640
Speaker 3: This is a new band I stumbled upon called Karmachine

1177
01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:53,600
Speaker 3: and they are from London and it's, as they describe it,

1178
01:01:53,640 --> 01:01:58,240
Speaker 3: a mashup of Hindustani classical, fuzzy sixties rock a la

1179
01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:03,640
Speaker 3: Jimmy Hendrix and soon the inspired lyricism. And yeah, it's

1180
01:02:03,320 --> 01:02:06,720
Speaker 3: it feels like this. It's exactly that. I gotta say,

1181
01:02:06,720 --> 01:02:10,000
Speaker 3: that's a very good description of their music. And it's

1182
01:02:10,120 --> 01:02:13,240
Speaker 3: very it feels like old school but very new at

1183
01:02:13,240 --> 01:02:14,919
Speaker 3: the same time, and I just think it's yeah, really dope.

1184
01:02:14,920 --> 01:02:17,120
Speaker 3: So this track is called Without You and it's by

1185
01:02:17,280 --> 01:02:19,160
Speaker 3: Karma Sheen s h e N.

1186
01:02:19,680 --> 01:02:21,720
Speaker 4: All right, we will loick off to that in the footnotes.

1187
01:02:21,760 --> 01:02:24,040
Speaker 4: The Daily z Eeitgeist the production of iHeartRadio. For more

1188
01:02:24,120 --> 01:02:27,720
Speaker 4: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or

1189
01:02:27,720 --> 01:02:29,840
Speaker 4: wherever you listen to your favorite shows. That's going to

1190
01:02:29,880 --> 01:02:33,080
Speaker 4: do it for us this morning, back this afternoon to

1191
01:02:33,200 --> 01:02:35,760
Speaker 4: tell you what is trending, and we will talk to

1192
01:02:35,800 --> 01:02:39,360
Speaker 4: you all then, Bye bye.