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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Sanny and Samantha and welcome to stuff

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Speaker 1: I Never told your production of iHeart Radio, And welcome

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Speaker 1: to our part two classic rerun.

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Speaker 2: I'm Princess Leiah. Whether you celebrate Revenge of the fifth

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Speaker 2: or Revenge of the sixth, because people disagree about which

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Speaker 2: one is the better kind of rhyming scheme. Either way,

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Speaker 2: I hope you enjoy this classic episode.

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Speaker 3: Hey this Sanny and again Samantha, and.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to stuff I've Never told your production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 3: Always have to pretend like a surprise like I'm still here.

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Speaker 4: I love it.

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Speaker 2: I love your tone of surprise always with you, the

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Speaker 2: tone of surprise they have.

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Speaker 3: You have to switch it up because you know why not?

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Speaker 4: Definitely keep me and the listeners on our toes.

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Speaker 2: I actually, how do you feel about a good like

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Speaker 2: surprise or twist?

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Speaker 4: In medias? At the.

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Speaker 3: It's according to what kind of surprise or twist there is.

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Speaker 3: Like I will say, if it gets too dark and

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Speaker 3: I don't know there's a happy ending, I'm gonna quit.

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Speaker 3: But if you tell me that's going to be a

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Speaker 3: happy ending, I'll be better.

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Speaker 4: I love a good surprise.

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Speaker 2: And a good twist, like if it's if it's just

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Speaker 2: ridiculous and unearned. I don't like that, right, But something

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Speaker 2: like from these movies we're talking about today, Star Wars,

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Speaker 2: I am your father.

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Speaker 4: I would have loved to have had that surprise.

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Speaker 3: It's kind of like the I See Dead People.

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Speaker 4: Yeah I did that too. I had. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I went through such a big sixth sense phase because

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Speaker 2: I love horror, and good horror can sometimes be hard to.

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Speaker 3: Find, right, and to be fair, you only can get

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Speaker 3: that once. I know that's a sad part.

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Speaker 2: But you you are someone who has watched movies with me,

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Speaker 2: and movies that I love, and you know, I get

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Speaker 2: reinvested every time as if I'm like you.

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Speaker 3: It's almost like you get surprised again, like the way

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Speaker 3: you're so invested that when I look at your face, you're.

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Speaker 4: Like, oh, oh.

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Speaker 3: My gosh, that I truly believe that it's the first

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Speaker 3: time you've seen it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I've wondered about that. And I had a

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Speaker 2: friend who kind of like interviewed me.

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Speaker 5: She said, so, tell me, why is it every time

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Speaker 5: we watch these movies you've seen hundreds of times together,

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Speaker 5: you act as though you've never seen it.

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Speaker 2: And I was trying to explain that. For me, it's

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Speaker 2: almost like I can count on these feelings and stations.

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Speaker 2: It gives me every time, and that's why I keep

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Speaker 2: watching them and I love those. It's almost like writing

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Speaker 2: a roller coaster. I love writing roller coasters. Write a

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Speaker 2: million times.

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Speaker 3: And if you knew, it's true, because when we've written

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Speaker 3: ride together, you do act like it's a new thing

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Speaker 3: for you. You're so excited about it in advance. So

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Speaker 3: for you, when we were talking about the Star Wars

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Speaker 3: that was the first time you wrote it, what was

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Speaker 3: your feels other than because the initial was that you

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Speaker 3: were so excited that you almost tore, like you almost

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Speaker 3: had tears in your You did have tears in your

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Speaker 3: eyes as you were like, we're going to write it.

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Speaker 3: What was your feel after the fact that you wrote

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Speaker 3: it for the first time? You were quiet?

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Speaker 4: I was quiet.

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Speaker 5: I was like almost euphoria, just a relief and a

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Speaker 5: happiness that we did this.

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Speaker 2: I've been so worried about it. I thought we would

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Speaker 2: never make it happen. And it was around two pm

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Speaker 2: that we finally got to write it, and it was Oh,

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Speaker 2: I can't believe that it happened.

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Speaker 4: All these things could have gone wrong, and we.

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Speaker 3: Did, and we were we were kind of scared that

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Speaker 3: it was going to go wrong, whether it was weather,

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Speaker 3: whether it was being backed up, whether it would break down.

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Speaker 3: Because also I had this experience with you with the

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Speaker 3: Hagrid Rod Yes, and I was like, we can't leave

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Speaker 3: here without you actually writing this ride, because I think

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Speaker 3: that would have been one of the biggest disappointments for

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Speaker 3: you and for me to see you write it, to

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Speaker 3: see you after the fact and the stories that you had. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: but it's kind of that same level.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I am so glad you were like, you have

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Speaker 2: to write this ride.

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Speaker 4: No better what I.

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Speaker 3: Really know, I wasn't gonna let you leave without that.

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Speaker 2: I love how supportive you are. It's one of my

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Speaker 2: favorite things about you. You made sure that happened, and

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Speaker 2: I am so glad that I wrote that.

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Speaker 3: Right, I will say, you make it easy because I

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Speaker 3: know what you love. Yes, And that's like first and

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Speaker 3: foremost one of the things that I love about my friends.

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Speaker 3: And by the way, when we read the listener letter

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Speaker 3: about her friend doing the Harry Potter, she actually tweeted

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Speaker 3: her friend tweeted about how much she loved her friend

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Speaker 3: for doing that. That is the stuff that I love

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Speaker 3: about women loving women and our female supporting females. But

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Speaker 3: that is what I see, like, I'm like, oh my god,

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Speaker 3: Annie has to do this because she loves it. Of course,

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Speaker 3: I love to teach you and be like, no, it's

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Speaker 3: never happening. But just watching this movie, just seeing you

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Speaker 3: on these rise, this passion. I don't know if I've

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Speaker 3: ever felt passionate like that, and you do, and it's

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Speaker 3: fun to watch.

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Speaker 4: I'm glad.

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Speaker 2: I'm glad because, as I said in the last one

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Speaker 2: in part one of our Princess Leah Star Wars Overview,

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Speaker 2: I've been embarrassed about it.

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Speaker 4: Like still to this day, I struggle with it.

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Speaker 2: I think fandom is more accepted now, but when I

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Speaker 2: was younger, I definitely felt like a weirdo.

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Speaker 4: That's right.

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Speaker 2: And even my older brother, who loved Star Wars, he

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Speaker 2: would make fun of me for liking Star Wars and

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Speaker 2: he said I was too into it and it was strange,

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Speaker 2: and luckily for me, I was too in it to

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Speaker 2: be deterred.

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Speaker 3: And I love that. I think people who love things

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Speaker 3: are genuinely you know who they are, yeah, And to me,

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Speaker 3: they are die hard and loyal and loyalty is really

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Speaker 3: hard to find.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: And I think that fandom certainly can be toxic, and

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Speaker 2: we've talked about that before.

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Speaker 4: And I am someone who.

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Speaker 2: I'm able to separate the things that I love about

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Speaker 2: Star Wars in particular, or anything that I do really love,

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Speaker 2: the good things and the bad things. And like, sure,

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Speaker 2: I didn't like this movie, but that doesn't ruin everything

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Speaker 2: else for me. And I know for some people it does, right,

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Speaker 2: but for me it doesn't.

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Speaker 3: And just to put this out there, loving anything too much, yes,

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Speaker 3: obsession is dangerous, yes, But to be able to love

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Speaker 3: something it is a genuinely good thing. And for those

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Speaker 3: who support friends, those who uh for me like I Again,

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Speaker 3: I think I've talked about this before about attachment issues.

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Speaker 3: I don't quite understand this level of this bond, but

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Speaker 3: I love it when I see it because I wish

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Speaker 3: I could be as in it as you are.

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Speaker 2: Well you, I'm so glad it met so much to

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Speaker 2: me that you watched these the feed and you shared

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Speaker 2: it with me, because yeah, we are.

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Speaker 4: This is our part two of.

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Speaker 2: Our epic Star Wars Princess Leiah Feminism Overview. Please go

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Speaker 2: check out part one if you haven't listened to it already,

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Speaker 2: in which we talk about the cultural impact of Star

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Speaker 2: Wars in Leia, and we did the plot overview of

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Speaker 2: a New Hope and Impire strikes back from the original

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Speaker 2: trilogy because we're mostly focusing on those, and today we're

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Speaker 2: gonna start with Return of the Jedi, which is the

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Speaker 2: final one in this original it's much maligned. It was

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Speaker 2: my favorite as a kid. It's still my second favorite,

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Speaker 2: and you can judge me for that if you want.

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Speaker 2: But Imperi stikes Pact number one turned the Jedi Hope.

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Speaker 3: So in Retard of the Jedi, Leah poses as a

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Speaker 3: bounty hunter to infiltrate Jaba's palace to save Han, which

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Speaker 3: by the way, I didn't know who Jaba was, and

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Speaker 3: he had to tell me who the Green Slide was.

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Speaker 3: I got it. I got it. And a lot of

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Speaker 3: people joke that she is on a mission to save

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Speaker 3: her prince. I agree with that, but it's found out

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Speaker 3: after freeing Han from carbonite and enslaved by Jaba, changed

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Speaker 3: by his side, which is the scene and that I know, yes,

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Speaker 3: this is where Slave Leah and the metal bikini comes in. That,

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Speaker 3: I mean, I get it. It was very sexist, but

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Speaker 3: damn she looked good in it. She did. She looked good, which,

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Speaker 3: by the way, again was one of the three scenes

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Speaker 3: that I knew about. Of course everyone knows about that,

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Speaker 3: I guess one. So Luke Han and Chewey are sent

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Speaker 3: us to death as they fight their way out, and

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Speaker 3: Leah strangles Jaba with her chase because she is a badass,

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Speaker 3: and she kills him with the tools of her oppression

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Speaker 3: and escapes. And by the way, I think I did

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Speaker 3: make a few comments about how Chewy looked really rough

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Speaker 3: in DC.

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Speaker 2: He did, and I always forget that possibly someone doesn't

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Speaker 2: know my level of nerd them, and I know you

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Speaker 2: had to deal with that, because I'll just forget, like, oh,

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Speaker 2: you don't know all these things that I just know.

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Speaker 4: Uh yeah.

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Speaker 2: Java is kind of this big crime lord who Han

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Speaker 2: had a big debt to and so after we got

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Speaker 2: frozen in carbonite, got sent to Java hanging on his

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Speaker 2: wall like an ornament.

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Speaker 3: So I learned about the Mandalorian at this point.

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Speaker 4: I don't think I ever explained that properly to you,

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Speaker 4: but yes, because.

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Speaker 3: Well I think if you didn't, my partner Joe tried to,

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Speaker 3: and I was just like staring back and forth at

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Speaker 3: both of you. So I learned about the two of them.

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Speaker 3: I also learned that the original clunky scene.

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Speaker 4: Was due to Java, right, uh, yeah, well it's the Gredo.

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Speaker 2: Who's Holly Fryes super fan, Holly fries favorite character.

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Speaker 5: I'm not calling her super fan, she's super she is

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Speaker 5: an expert. You're right, we should give her the respect

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Speaker 5: she is new. Yeah, yeah, I actually have a whole thing.

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Speaker 5: And I'm going to come back to this once we

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Speaker 5: get to the newer movies. But I'm not sure you're

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Speaker 5: aware of this, Samantha, but a lot of people love

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Speaker 5: Boba Fett, who is the bounty hunter that that looks

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Speaker 5: like the Mandalorian, And I just think he's bad at

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Speaker 5: his job.

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Speaker 3: And well, I did keep asking where's the baby?

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Speaker 4: Yes you did.

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Speaker 3: What's his name?

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Speaker 4: Well everyone calls him baby Yoda, which is not baby Wrecked.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, well I just and so therefore, because I

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Speaker 3: know about Baby Yoda and the popularity and the cuteness

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Speaker 3: of Baby Yoda, I called everything baby something.

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Speaker 2: Also, I didn't mean for that to sound judgmental. That

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Speaker 2: everyone gets I also call it baby.

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Speaker 3: I'm just saying it's unjudgmental. It is exactly what it is.

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Speaker 3: I who knows nothing of Star Wars. No no, no, no, no, no,

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Speaker 3: super cute and then everything is baby something.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I appreciated it. So yeah, yeah, there's big crime.

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Speaker 2: Lord Leah kills him. When Carrie Fisher was asked if

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Speaker 2: she wanted a stunt double to kill Jaba.

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Speaker 4: She's like, hell no, I want to do it.

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Speaker 2: Yes, And this is probably the scene that causes the

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Speaker 2: most feminist discussion kind of ire. It was definitely a

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Speaker 2: way of catering to the male gaze, although it is

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Speaker 2: worth pointing out that when these movies themselves came out,

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Speaker 2: they were not seen as four men and boys.

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Speaker 4: That came later, that came around the time of Return

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Speaker 4: of the Jedi.

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Speaker 3: I think this is a scene that I was like, oh, look,

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Speaker 3: there's the one Asian girl.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But we talked about this in our Star Wars Feminism

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Speaker 2: episode and her Action Figures episode about how this series

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Speaker 2: sort of got really drawn into as part of the

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Speaker 2: fact that merchandising was such a big part of it,

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Speaker 2: the rebranding in the nineties of this is for Boys

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Speaker 2: and this is for girls, and it was firmly set

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Speaker 2: aside as this is for boys and slave, Leia is

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Speaker 2: absolutely serving this cause this became instant sex symbol, and

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Speaker 2: this is the image that many publications use of her.

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Speaker 2: Even My Fancy Star Wars Encyclopedia in their entry.

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Speaker 4: For Laya, that is the image that they use, and.

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Speaker 2: It was the image they used on the nineteen eighty

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Speaker 2: three cover of The Rolling Stones in Return of the

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Speaker 2: Jedi was announced. It has inspired so much cosplay it

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Speaker 2: has a cult following of its own, despite having only

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Speaker 2: two minutes of screen time. That is one of the

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Speaker 2: three things that you knew about this movie is very

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Speaker 2: revealing because it's two minutes or less. Fisher has spoken

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Speaker 2: about how miserable it was to film these scenes and

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Speaker 2: how the mail crew mocked her. That dignity was out

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Speaker 2: of the question, as she said, and it was made

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Speaker 2: of metal, or at least one of them was, so

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Speaker 2: it didn't really move with her. One version was made

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Speaker 2: of rever, but she had to be very careful about

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Speaker 2: how she moved, and she's expressed her annoyance that the

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Speaker 2: costume has been taken out of context of that scene

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Speaker 2: becoming synonymous with sexy. A parent even recently complained that

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Speaker 2: the Leya in a metal bikini toy was being sold

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Speaker 2: at Target that it was too sexy, when if you

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Speaker 2: think about what's happening in those scenes, it's horrendous, and

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Speaker 2: Leah's expression of contempt and rage communicates her feelings about it,

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Speaker 2: and the fact that she ultimately kills the one who

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Speaker 2: tried to take power from her and Jaba, her captor,

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Speaker 2: and the one viewing her as a.

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Speaker 4: Sex object is objectively gross. He's gross.

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Speaker 2: He kind of serves as a stand in for those

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Speaker 2: that would objectify her, and you do not want to

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Speaker 2: be Java. He's leering, his tongue is rolling out. Almost

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Speaker 2: every scene with Leah in this outfit comes with Java

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Speaker 2: in the background or reminder that if you're fantasizing about

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Speaker 2: this non consensual situation, well you have something in common

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Speaker 2: with this disgusting creature right here. This is something people

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Speaker 2: often ignore or forget. What they remember of all Leah

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Speaker 2: has done is that she was really hot in that bikini,

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Speaker 2: and that is so frustrating. It's something we as women

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Speaker 2: see all the time. We can lead a rebellion for

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Speaker 2: three movies but still be remembered for when we were

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Speaker 2: at our weakest and most humiliated, and the fact that

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Speaker 2: she is known here as slave Leah, which is never

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Speaker 2: used in the script. By the way, that's something culture

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Speaker 2: and fans assigned to her and not just Leyah is

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Speaker 2: disturbed and very indicative. A lot have accused George Lucas

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Speaker 2: of having his cake and eating it too, of catering

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Speaker 2: to the mailgize while also condemning it.

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Speaker 3: Right. So, there is an episode of Friends where Rachel

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Speaker 3: dresses up in the metal bikini for ross. I guess

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Speaker 3: it's called the one with the Princess Leah fantasy, and

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Speaker 3: there are slave Leya burlesque routines, billy dancing routines, and

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Speaker 3: strip routines. Also collectors items and toys, which is all yuck.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I do like some of the dance and burlesque

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Speaker 2: routines or reclaim it, which is really cool as like

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Speaker 2: a power power scene. I personally prefer dressing up as

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Speaker 2: Leah to get out of jury duty on thirty Huck,

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Speaker 2: even though she shouldn't be embarrassed for cosplay, I say,

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Speaker 2: as I'm in cosplay, and Carrie Fisher's guest appearance on

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Speaker 2: that show is fantastic.

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Speaker 3: It is so good. It's probably one of my favorite episodes,

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Speaker 3: especially with the whole icon of her being a writer

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Speaker 3: and a strong female writer for a field that is

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Speaker 3: dominated by men in her age, so like it was

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Speaker 3: just so stacked. There's so many layers to that episode

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Speaker 3: with Carrie Fisher and also Carrie Fisher as a comedian. Yes,

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Speaker 3: she is amazing, Her timing is freaking.

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Speaker 2: Amazing, fantastic, fantastic. That one's called Rosemar's Baby, if anyone

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Speaker 2: has missed it, and there's a lot. There's a lot

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Speaker 2: of debate in the Star Wars community about whether jab

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Speaker 2: assaulted Leah in this scene. The consensus seems to be no,

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Speaker 2: that the outfit was his way of taking away her power.

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Speaker 2: There's also a lot of informal research on why the

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Speaker 2: costume has resonated so much with women and why so

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Speaker 2: many women cosplay it. Dancer Amir Sayid, who has used

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Speaker 2: the outfit in her tears, have said quote, Jaba put

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Speaker 2: her into the outfit to humiliate her, but Leah was

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Speaker 2: such a strong character her will made the costume empowering.

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Speaker 3: Right, and some fans have rebranded Slave Leah as Leah

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Speaker 3: the Hutslayer, as they should, and Amy Schumer poked fun

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Speaker 3: at this in a photo shoot as well. Yes, yes,

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Speaker 3: and as you have told me a couple of times,

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Speaker 3: and any k Fisher advised you Star Wars actress Daisy

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Speaker 3: Ridley not to let them put her in a bikini,

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Speaker 3: and apparently that was a wise statements.

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Speaker 2: And I do want to throw in here just a note.

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Speaker 2: This is still hotly debated. I have read arguments that

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Speaker 2: Leah killing Jaba is not empowering. I've read so many

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Speaker 2: that it is. I think a part of the problem

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Speaker 2: is the way mostly masculine fan culture around Star Wars

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Speaker 2: tries to reduce things like she was rescued on the

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Speaker 2: desk star, which is technically true, but misses the whole

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Speaker 2: context of the saying it she was a sexy prisoner

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Speaker 2: of Java, which again, it just doesn't have the context.

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Speaker 3: So I don't know how you let go of the

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Speaker 3: fact that she killed him. She killed her prisoner. I

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Speaker 3: think that overpowers the fact that she was a sexy prisoner.

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Speaker 3: If she was able to kill him and get away

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Speaker 3: with it and become the princess.

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Speaker 4: Yes, she's ah, I love it, get him leyah Uh.

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Speaker 2: Leah after that joins the ground team to destroy the

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Speaker 2: shield generators.

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Speaker 4: I know this is a lot of technical speak.

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Speaker 2: It's not super important, so that the rebellion can destroy

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Speaker 2: the Death Star volunteering after she learns that Han is

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Speaker 2: leading this group and her surprise, and to her surprise

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Speaker 2: is a general accepting a position and a cause important

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Speaker 2: to her that he for a long time a shirt

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Speaker 2: And this is when he's proved his commitment his love,

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Speaker 2: and she shows hers by trusting his leadership at I mean,

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Speaker 2: at the start of the movie, she never would have

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Speaker 2: trusted Han to lead anything.

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Speaker 3: I mean, he's handsome, but he's kind of dumb.

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Speaker 5: He has a lot of growing up to do, for sure.

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Speaker 5: And Han does not try to sideline her protect her.

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Speaker 5: He's happy she wants to be on his team.

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Speaker 2: He knows she's useful and very competent, and I do

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Speaker 2: love She's not really defined by this.

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Speaker 4: Relationship, and she doesn't lose herself in it.

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Speaker 2: She acknowledges what she wants and needs and accepts the

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Speaker 2: fact that she does in fact have those things, and

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Speaker 2: that's okay. She goes on to lead a speeder chase

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Speaker 2: after some Stormtroopers, is separated from the group and fights

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Speaker 2: all some enemies and joins the Ewoks, which are the

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Speaker 2: little teddy bear.

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Speaker 3: I call them teddy bears.

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Speaker 4: You also, I feel like you kept mixing up wookies

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Speaker 4: in ewoks.

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Speaker 3: I did. I did, absolutely, Even now as we talk

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Speaker 3: about it, I won't say either one of those honestly,

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Speaker 3: because I don't know which is which.

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Speaker 4: That's totally fair. It's totally fair.

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Speaker 3: I just called them the cute things.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I would have understood. Again, I can translate your

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Speaker 2: Star Wars speak.

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 2: The interesting thing is like to prove the point of

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Speaker 2: how successful merch was for these movies, E Walks never

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Speaker 2: said in the movie Wampa, the ice creature from Empire

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Speaker 2: strikes Back, that is my fan fiction name.

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Speaker 4: Never said name or never not in credit.

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Speaker 3: So I didn't know what a wampa was until you

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Speaker 3: showed me. I know, and I can guarantee if you

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Speaker 3: gave me a pictures of all of these things, I

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Speaker 3: probably would get one out of three.

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Speaker 2: Right, Well, you better be ready because there's a quiz

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Speaker 2: at the end. Oh no, I'm just kidding kind of Okay.

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Speaker 3: Then, Luke, I've seen the outline.

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Speaker 4: There's quizzes. Don't look ahead in my outline.

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Speaker 2: Luke goes on to tell her that she is Luke's

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Speaker 2: twin sister and Darth Vader, her past tormentor in arch Nemesis,

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Speaker 2: is their dad, and she tells Luke to run away,

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Speaker 2: that she she wishes she could go with him, but

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Speaker 2: he immediately calls her bluff. He says, you've always been strong, Leah,

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Speaker 2: and some as we alluded to in the part one

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Speaker 2: of this, some people take issue with this scene that

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Speaker 2: she didn't have a bigger reaction to the revelation that

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Speaker 2: this person who tortured me and was very instrumental in

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Speaker 2: the blowing off my home planet is my father, and

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Speaker 2: she does have more experience because of that than Luke

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Speaker 2: does with Darth Vader. But I feel like if she had,

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Speaker 2: people would have taken issue with that too. She's being

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Speaker 2: too emotional. It does to me seem in keeping with

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Speaker 2: her character that she takes it in stride.

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Speaker 3: I will say, I will say you to that, like

401
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Speaker 3: I think people, as an adopted woman, myself an adopted girl,

402
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:39,960
Speaker 3: there's a lot of things that you understand and even

403
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Speaker 3: though there's an idealization. Again I'm getting too literal with this,

404
00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:46,680
Speaker 3: but there's an understanding that there's a reason you're not

405
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Speaker 3: with your biological and of course this is a dramatic

406
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,080
Speaker 3: version of he's evil and he did things to you.

407
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Speaker 3: But in actuality, the truth of the matter is that

408
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Speaker 3: the reason that you were not with your biological parent,

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Speaker 3: there is a component of not necessarily evil, but a

410
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Speaker 3: dark side. So I will say for me, it made sense.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And I'm someone who when I get news that i'm

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Speaker 2: I know is big and I'm gonna have an emotional response,

414
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Speaker 2: I usually have a pretty delayed response.

415
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Speaker 3: I think that's me too. I am one of those

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Speaker 3: that sits calmly and then walks away and reacts after

417
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Speaker 3: the fact. I've been called out for that a couple

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Speaker 3: of times.

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Speaker 4: I have too.

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Speaker 2: I had a two friends tell me that, you know,

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Speaker 2: they've been dating forever and they thought that I was

422
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Speaker 2: I didn't believe them or I was mad at them

423
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Speaker 2: because I didn't have a bigger reaction, but I just

424
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Speaker 2: I took it and stride and I like to I

425
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Speaker 2: like to think over things and make sure I'm responding

426
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Speaker 2: in a way that captures how I feel and.

427
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Speaker 4: What I think. So I guess I sort of connected

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Speaker 4: with her on that.

429
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Speaker 2: And a lot of people have said she's she's playing chess,

430
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Speaker 2: she's doing alliance versus Empire in her head. Meanwhile, Luke

431
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:10,439
Speaker 2: is doing a much more personal battlefield so it has

432
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Speaker 2: a bigger impact on him. So moving on, she fights

433
00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:16,880
Speaker 2: alongside Han and Chewey and is slightly injured but keeps going.

434
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:18,920
Speaker 2: She gets to flip the I love you I know

435
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:24,240
Speaker 2: on Han. The heroes are victorious, a party ensues. She

436
00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:27,000
Speaker 2: is and Carrie Fisher herself has said this she is

437
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:30,479
Speaker 2: more supportive and feminine in this one, completing her arc

438
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:34,160
Speaker 2: of allowing herself to lean on others to be more vulnerable.

439
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 3: I also like the flip that she did with or

440
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:38,880
Speaker 3: not necessarily she, but the writer, I don't know who

441
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:41,400
Speaker 3: did it on the fact that he's the one that's

442
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:45,000
Speaker 3: insecure about the relationship and she's the one who's like,

443
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:47,240
Speaker 3: calm down, is not what you think.

444
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:49,119
Speaker 4: And I do love that moment.

445
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:52,720
Speaker 2: I have never because I'm not into romance, I've never

446
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,480
Speaker 2: really given much thought to the Han and Lance relationship,

447
00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:58,560
Speaker 2: but I did, like, I read an article specifically for this,

448
00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:00,960
Speaker 2: and they were kind of saying what you saying, Samantha's

449
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,919
Speaker 2: it's a sort of a flip because then Emperor strikes

450
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:07,560
Speaker 2: back too. She's the one that's sort of having intimacy

451
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,479
Speaker 2: commitment issues, and Han's the one trying to get her

452
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 2: to admit, you know you, he wants, he needs something.

453
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:19,160
Speaker 3: I think we see so many films with women being

454
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:20,880
Speaker 3: in the triangle and be like as cool as cool,

455
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,160
Speaker 3: I'll be the best friend, I'll do this or whatever right,

456
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 3: and she's and she's the one. No, No, calm down,

457
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:31,200
Speaker 3: you're being emotional. It's okay, you're reading the things. It's

458
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:31,920
Speaker 3: not what you think.

459
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:36,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I had to put this in there. Samantha

460
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 2: heard my holes feel I'll try to shorten it, though.

461
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:42,399
Speaker 2: I have a beef that Darth Vader's last words are

462
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 2: tell your sister you were right about me. Man, you

463
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,120
Speaker 2: tortured her, dude, And those are some pretty selfish last

464
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 2: words say.

465
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:51,200
Speaker 3: I will say, first thing, and he told me right

466
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:54,440
Speaker 3: after that scene, right after that scene, and I will say,

467
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:56,640
Speaker 3: not necessarily to me, I think she was just making

468
00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:57,760
Speaker 3: an outright statement.

469
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 4: Was that's oh no, that's what.

470
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:04,920
Speaker 3: No, you're still a bad guy. You tortured her. That

471
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:06,919
Speaker 3: that was the initial statement that I kind of looked at.

472
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 3: I was like, you're right, you're absolutely this does not

473
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 3: justify what you did to her.

474
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 4: No, I'm cladding on my side, I am, and I

475
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:18,920
Speaker 4: did just want to put this in here because.

476
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 5: It does come up in a lot of feminist essays

477
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:22,640
Speaker 5: about Princess Leah, which you would not believe how many

478
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:22,919
Speaker 5: there are.

479
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:23,640
Speaker 4: Maybe you would.

480
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:26,880
Speaker 2: It's Vagerder's threat to turn Lea to the dark side

481
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 2: that goes Luke into attacking Darth Vader, cutting off Vader's

482
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 2: hands and almost losing himself his hands and almost losing

483
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 2: himself to the dark side.

484
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:42,399
Speaker 4: Some interpret that as sort of the whole hero I

485
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 4: mean to justify violence or.

486
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:49,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so put that out there, and then moving

487
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:52,000
Speaker 2: on to the new the new Ones, which we're again

488
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:54,719
Speaker 2: not going to talk about too much. You can hear

489
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 2: more about that in Our especially the Last Jedi's feminism, uh,

490
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 2: in Our feminism and Star Wars episode because that movie

491
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 2: really does have a lot going on when it comes

492
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 2: to feminism. But Leya reprised by Carrie Fisher.

493
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 3: By the way, I did not see this, so all

494
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 3: of this is just conjecture from my point of view.

495
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 2: No, but I would love, like I won't make you

496
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:15,720
Speaker 2: watch it, but I would love to just tell you

497
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 2: what happens in it, because it's kind of shocking how

498
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 2: much feminist dialogue is in it okay, so Leya reprised

499
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 2: by Carrie Fisher. She's the one that stays. So These

500
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,640
Speaker 2: take place a couple of decades after the original trilogy

501
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:36,120
Speaker 2: and Han has left. Luke is socially distancing way before

502
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 2: it was cool, but Leya stayed to lead the fight

503
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,159
Speaker 2: against the First Order, which is the New Empire, and

504
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:48,920
Speaker 2: her son is a member of that. And it's revealed

505
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 2: that she was trained by Luke to be a Jedi,

506
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:54,720
Speaker 2: but she had a vision that if she completed her training,

507
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:56,199
Speaker 2: her son would die, so she.

508
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:57,680
Speaker 4: Gave it up. No spoilers.

509
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 2: When it was announced that she would return, of course,

510
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:04,639
Speaker 2: the lot of internet was like she's too oh, sho's

511
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,440
Speaker 2: too fat. On the flip side, people were really worried

512
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,480
Speaker 2: that she'd just be a token or a cameo, but

513
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:14,119
Speaker 2: she's running the whole show. She definitely teaches Flyboy Po

514
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 2: a valuable lesson about listening to and respecting women in

515
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 2: the Last Jedi, even though a lot of people did

516
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:24,920
Speaker 2: not like it. When asked what she wanted fans to

517
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 2: take away from Leya in the new movies, Fisher said,

518
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,640
Speaker 2: never give up. Fisher was also very outspoken that Leah

519
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,400
Speaker 2: remained a strong character for the generations who had grown

520
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 2: up looking up to her, and for new generations as well.

521
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 2: To stay true to Princess Leiah and the fans of

522
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:44,119
Speaker 2: Princess Leah. And to Twitter trolls commenting on her looks

523
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 2: and age, Carrie Fisher responded, please start debating about whether

524
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,160
Speaker 2: or not I have aged well. Unfortunately, it hurts all

525
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:52,920
Speaker 2: three of my feelings. My body has an aged well

526
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 2: as I have. Youth and beauty are not accomplishments, their

527
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 2: temporary happy by products of time and or DNA. Don't

528
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 2: hold your breath for either. Also, here's another controversial thing

529
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 2: I want to say, because this causes a lot of

530
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:08,439
Speaker 2: argument in the Star Wars fan community.

531
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 4: Kyler Renn is a bad Jedi. I'm just gonna leave

532
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:11,480
Speaker 4: that there.

533
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 5: Like people like to complain that Ray was too good,

534
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 5: too fast, maybe Kyler Renn was just bad.

535
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 4: Have we ever thought about that.

536
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,440
Speaker 3: I would just like to say once again, the Stormtroopers

537
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 3: and the damn guns, they did not use them because

538
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:26,159
Speaker 3: it never touched people. I'm just very confused with what

539
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 3: they were used for other than a laser show. Because

540
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,680
Speaker 3: other than bring a little smoke here and there. It

541
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:36,119
Speaker 3: rarely killed someone. I don't understand how bad they are

542
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,880
Speaker 3: at aim and why they are stormtroopers if they can't

543
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 3: aim a laser.

544
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 2: That is a running joke in the series, and I

545
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:46,720
Speaker 2: loved watching it with you as someone who hadn't seen

546
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 2: it and just seeing you immediately pick up on it.

547
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 3: Why has no one hit any of them? If there's

548
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 3: twenty of them with laser guns and three of them

549
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 3: with two guns, why.

550
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 2: Maybe they're just bad or see. My theory is maybe

551
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 2: their hearts weren't in it and they were just pretending.

552
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 3: Maybe they were like they just wanted a laser show, right, Yeah,

553
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 3: I mean, to be fair, I feel like none of

554
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:14,280
Speaker 3: the good guys were able to hit the bad guys either,

555
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 3: Like it was very fair. You know who did really well?

556
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 4: E Walks and rocks, Yeah, spears.

557
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean they got them one e walk died rip,

558
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 3: but then they got them with vines and rocks. That's

559
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 3: all I'm saying.

560
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, I mean that's one of the reasons people

561
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 2: really don't like Return of the Jedi. But yes, so

562
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 2: in the Legends Universe, which is all the books that

563
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 2: came out after the movies and books and comics and

564
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 2: everything that Disney has now said is not canon. So

565
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 2: it's called Legends. But in that she becomes a Jedi

566
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 2: and a leader of the New Republic. Oh my gosh,

567
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 2: we could talk so much, or I could, because I've

568
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 2: read all these things about Lea in Legends.

569
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 4: But then this episode never end.

570
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 3: And I did ask her to end it at page

571
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 3: twenty two.

572
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 4: She did, She stepped in, she put the foot down,

573
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 4: So thanks Samantha for that. Listeners.

574
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:11,640
Speaker 2: There's political marriages, there's a whole book called the Courtship

575
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:15,400
Speaker 2: of Princess Leiah. There's multiple kidnappings, pheromone seduction which scared

576
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 2: me as a kid, forgiveness, forgiveness. When Luke turns to

577
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 2: the dark side, Lea resists similar temptations, and it's able

578
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 2: to turn Luke back side. Uh he did in one

579
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 2: of the books. Oh yeah, and I went into all

580
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 2: the Luke Skywalker clone whose name is Luke with two us.

581
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 5: That's also in the books. It's one of my favorites.

582
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 5: In fact, too, Lukes, this can't get any better.

583
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 3: I'm not ready for all of this.

584
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 2: Okay, So that's sort of a very uh somehow both

585
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 2: very long and very short runout of the plot of

586
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 2: these movies. So now we're going to talk about feminism

587
00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 2: and Princess Leiah. But first we're gonna pop for a

588
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:16,240
Speaker 2: quick break for word from our sponsor, and we're back.

589
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 2: Thank you, sponsor. So, as we said in part one,

590
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 2: Princess Leah is widely regarded as a feminist icon. There's

591
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 2: even something called Leyah feminism. Carrie Fisher herself has described

592
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 2: Princess Leah as a huge feminist icon. In response to

593
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 2: those that call her a damsel in distress in movies,

594
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 2: she said she bost them around. I don't know what

595
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 2: your idea of distresses, but that wasn't it. And I

596
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 2: wasn't some babe running around the galaxy with my spouncing around,

597
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 2: so I wasn't threatening to women. Carrie Fisher was instrumental

598
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 2: in this characterization of Leah. She was a Hollywood script

599
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 2: fixer and she was very involved in making Leyah what

600
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:57,720
Speaker 2: she was. She said she loved Leah, she loved her feiciness,

601
00:31:57,760 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 2: the fact that she killed Jab of the Hut, and

602
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 2: her the Princess Diarist. She wrote that she was quote

603
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 2: honored to be Leah's representative here on Earth. She has

604
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 2: often said that she was Leah and Leyah was her

605
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 2: and I love that. I love when you find an

606
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 2: actor who embraces this right.

607
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 4: I think it's I.

608
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 5: Think it was because she created it, so she loved it.

609
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 5: It was a part of her exactly. When this character debuted,

610
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:27,480
Speaker 5: there weren't many strong female role models in movies and television.

611
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 5: Most female characters served as decorations or prizes to be one.

612
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:34,719
Speaker 5: Leah was vastly different when compared to other princesses at

613
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 5: the time, and still is in many ways. She was

614
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,719
Speaker 5: our first badass princess in pop culture, and especially important

615
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:44,960
Speaker 5: when we think about entertainment aim towards children. Because these

616
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 5: were seen as children's movies, she became an instant icon

617
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 5: for girls and women. She defied stereotypes about women and

618
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 5: princesses and what they could do in the new movies.

619
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 2: Her title is general. In the early days, women ran

620
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:03,479
Speaker 2: star wars, fanzunes, and fan clubs.

621
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 1: I'm in.

622
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 2: Some second wave feminists criticized Princess Leah when the film

623
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 2: came out for her masculine traits. This was during the

624
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:16,719
Speaker 2: Vietnam War, when masculinity was associated with war and violence.

625
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:19,720
Speaker 2: And people had a lot of anxiety around that. Take

626
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 2: this quote from a nineteen eighty five Time article, masculinity

627
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 2: itself becomes a horror all rage and aggression and reptilian brain.

628
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 2: Second wave feminism was largely founded alongside the anti war movement.

629
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 2: Lea was a military leader and orchestrated battles that led

630
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 2: to many deaths. When she wasn't doing that, she was

631
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 2: a prisoner of war, so she was at odds with

632
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 2: this anti war part of second wave feminism. It was

633
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 2: really young girls at the time that latched onto her

634
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 2: as a role model, and a lot of those girls

635
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 2: became third wave feminist, which didn't have as strong of

636
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 2: an anti military bent, and they bought their life of

637
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 2: Leah with them. This is also around the time of

638
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 2: the sexual Revolution, Roe v. Wade and the backlash to

639
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 2: all of that, which in part explains the rebanding of

640
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:13,399
Speaker 2: Star Wars as a dude thing uh and the Gold Bikini, which,

641
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 2: since it was the last movie, happened a little later,

642
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 2: even though girls and women had been fans of Star

643
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,880
Speaker 2: Wars since the very beginning. JJ Abrams made this mistake

644
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 2: recently on Good Morning America that the original trilogy was

645
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:27,759
Speaker 2: for boys, and the backlash rolls into it.

646
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:29,239
Speaker 3: It should be.

647
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 4: Yeah.

648
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 3: Another related criticism from earlier reviews about Leo was that

649
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:38,320
Speaker 3: she was a damsel in distressed slash love address so

650
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 3: while at the same time complaining she liked femininity and

651
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 3: uh huh, because what doesn't makes sense.

652
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 4: I guess that's another point of view. You're damned if

653
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:52,239
Speaker 4: you do, dan if you don't.

654
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:54,880
Speaker 3: It really is because she can rescue people. But if

655
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 3: she shows any femininity, that means that she is a damsel.

656
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 3: But if she is too assertive, then she lacks it. Yeah,

657
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:04,719
Speaker 3: I will say I think that's been a debate in

658
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 3: my head how to be a female, especially in specific

659
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:12,319
Speaker 3: cultural ideas of what feminism is not feminism feminine trait

660
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,279
Speaker 3: is versus what feminism is that it has to be

661
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:19,279
Speaker 3: at odds. When that's not true, we can actually fight

662
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:23,360
Speaker 3: for our own rights with the availability of being feminine.

663
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:25,839
Speaker 3: Don't get me wrong. I don't bake things, I don't

664
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:29,320
Speaker 3: make things, and I'm not super cutesy girly. Sometimes I

665
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 3: wish I were. However, I also cannot figure out how

666
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 3: to work mechanics on things.

667
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:39,799
Speaker 2: I do know how to change a tire. I will

668
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 2: say that's awesome. Yeah, well, and that's when we're going

669
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:46,920
Speaker 2: to talk about this more in a minute. But that's

670
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 2: one thing people actually did really like about Leaves that

671
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 2: she was really as sortive character but also was still feminine.

672
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 2: So from Diana Dominguez and her work feminism and the

673
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:01,759
Speaker 2: force empowerment and disillusion meant in a galaxy far far away,

674
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:04,400
Speaker 2: here was a woman who could play like and with

675
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:06,320
Speaker 2: the boys, but who didn't have to become one of

676
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:08,720
Speaker 2: the boys, and who could if and when she wanted

677
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:12,719
Speaker 2: to show she liked the boys. A woman who is outspoken, unashamed,

678
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:16,759
Speaker 2: and most importantly, unpunished for being so. She isn't a

679
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 2: flirty sex spot tossing her hair around seductively to distract

680
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 2: the enemy. She doesn't play the role of maternal caretaker,

681
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 2: although she does display caring and compassion, or the sweet

682
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 2: innocent damsel who stands passively by while the men do

683
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 2: the work, but does step aside to let them do

684
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 2: what they're good at when it is wise to do so.

685
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 2: Leah is a hero without losing her gendered status. She

686
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 2: does not have to play the cute, helpless sex kitten

687
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:42,880
Speaker 2: or become the sexless androgynist to get what she wants.

688
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 2: She can be strong, sassy, outspoken, bossy and bitchy and

689
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:50,879
Speaker 2: still be respected and seen as feminine. And then there's

690
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:54,280
Speaker 2: a tweet from Hooveyan Feminism about Leah and the importance

691
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 2: of Star Wars. Leah was a different type of princess

692
00:36:57,120 --> 00:36:59,319
Speaker 2: than those in most movies shown to girls my age.

693
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:01,840
Speaker 2: She was a polite and military leader. It showed me

694
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:03,880
Speaker 2: a girl who was like me, rough and tumble and

695
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:05,280
Speaker 2: loud and brash and demanding.

696
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:07,359
Speaker 4: That felt unique and rare at the time.

697
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:10,719
Speaker 2: Star Wars and Leah and Padmey became fundamental parts of

698
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:14,280
Speaker 2: my childhood and identity. They showed me it was okay

699
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 2: to just be me. If you're wondering, Samantha, I'm sure

700
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:21,600
Speaker 2: you're not. But Padmey is Luke and Lea's mother.

701
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 3: Actually I was wondering. I was trying to figure out

702
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:25,239
Speaker 3: who that was. But I was being quiet, like, did

703
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:26,319
Speaker 3: I miss that part in the movie.

704
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:30,840
Speaker 2: You will definitely show up on the quiz No, no,

705
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 2: no no, that was the prequel series.

706
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 3: Okay, Oh wait, that is that the Nellie Portman character. Okay, Okay,

707
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:38,799
Speaker 3: I didn't know her name.

708
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:39,360
Speaker 4: Okay, got it.

709
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:43,880
Speaker 2: Yes, The character Leah became a symbol of women's protest

710
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:47,239
Speaker 2: marches worldwide, easily the most referenced pop culture character on

711
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,800
Speaker 2: protest signs. A women's place is in the resistance, for example,

712
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:53,960
Speaker 2: a rebel rebel with her picture. Mark Hamill even tweeted

713
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:56,239
Speaker 2: about it. I know where she stood, You know where

714
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 2: she stood. Such an honor to see her standing with

715
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 2: you today, bigly you Yeah.

716
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:05,279
Speaker 3: So. After Carrie Fisher's death in late twenty sixteen, right

717
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:11,319
Speaker 3: after the tumultuous election her daughter Billy Lord, which, by

718
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 3: the way, after watching the originals like, oh yeah, they

719
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 3: are so similar in features, she wrote, Leah is more

720
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:23,680
Speaker 3: than just a character. She's a feeling. She is a strength.

721
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:27,400
Speaker 3: She is grace, she is wit, She is femininity at

722
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 3: its fineness, and no one could have played her like

723
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 3: my mother. Princess Leiah is Carrie Fisher. Carrie Fisher is

724
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:37,360
Speaker 3: Princess Leiah. The two go hand in hand.

725
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's beautiful. Fisher's openness about her struggles with bipolar

726
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:47,840
Speaker 2: disorder and addiction were groundbreaking. She was outspoken about sexism,

727
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 2: about mental illness, about agism. She was funny, her unwillingness

728
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:55,239
Speaker 2: to sit down and be quiet, we're aspiring, and she

729
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 2: infused so much of that into Leah, and that's what

730
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:03,880
Speaker 2: may Leah is such a powerful impactful character for so many.

731
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:07,360
Speaker 3: And I just want to put in here because I

732
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 3: don't think you know, I know, you don't know. So

733
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:13,960
Speaker 3: Carrie Fisher actually made a cameo on Sex and the

734
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 3: City and in that level of Carrie Bradshaw, who was

735
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:21,160
Speaker 3: played by Sarah Jessica Parker, she talks about the fact

736
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:23,040
Speaker 3: that there are two Carries who are writers. And at

737
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:25,719
Speaker 3: that point in time, Carrie was seen as a phenomenal

738
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:29,840
Speaker 3: writer as well because her words were so impactful and

739
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 3: powerful this time. So yes, you can put this into

740
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 3: your graph. She was actually acknowledged as a feminine icon

741
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:40,160
Speaker 3: in Sex and the City.

742
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:42,680
Speaker 4: All right, you know.

743
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:44,880
Speaker 2: One of the first cameos I saw her in was

744
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:49,360
Speaker 2: Screamed three, where she also was still having some commentary

745
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 2: about hollywood It's treatment of women.

746
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:57,320
Speaker 4: So there you go. After her death, Christina J.

747
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:01,200
Speaker 2: Widmyer wrote a paper called the Feminist stra Back Performative

748
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,359
Speaker 2: Mourning in the Twitter response to Carrie Fisher's death about

749
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:07,759
Speaker 2: the performative grief around it on Twitter and the feminism

750
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:10,440
Speaker 2: it attracted. They were takedowns of dudes who were like,

751
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 2: rip my first boner and about how she was so

752
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:17,239
Speaker 2: much more than just so many Steve Martin even got

753
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 2: in trouble for this, although it was much less boni

754
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:22,759
Speaker 2: or more about her looks, but that she was so

755
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:25,239
Speaker 2: much more and I wanted to read a quote from it.

756
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:28,960
Speaker 2: Many of these tweets become feminists not only because their

757
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 2: authors are expressing certain views of Leah as a character

758
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:34,319
Speaker 2: and Fisher as a person, but also because they are

759
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 2: utilizing beformativity so that their grief furthers a social agenda.

760
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:40,799
Speaker 2: They are, in fact using their tweets as a means

761
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 2: of carrying Ford Fisher's legacy of activism, and they do

762
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 2: so by challenging patriarchal means of mourning and reintroducing Fisher's

763
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:52,000
Speaker 2: activist leanings through their tweets. In this sense, they engage

764
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 2: in a performative goal, both as individuals performing themselves and

765
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 2: as a collective performing a community value. It is through

766
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 2: these performatives that divisions in the fan community are revealed

767
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 2: and negotiated. That was actually really good read.

768
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:06,120
Speaker 4: I enjoyed it.

769
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:12,200
Speaker 2: Writer and Tat's tweeted this thread after Carrie Fisher's death

770
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 2: about General Organa. She's not young, not wearing a gold

771
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:17,920
Speaker 2: bikini ar robe. She's dressed to do what she's been

772
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:20,759
Speaker 2: training her whole life to do, lead the rebellion. This

773
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:23,480
Speaker 2: is the Layah that has lost everything, her world, her parents,

774
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:25,480
Speaker 2: her son to the dark side, her brother to who

775
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 2: knows where, her lover. This is the Laya that could

776
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 2: easily have been broken down or given up, but she

777
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:33,879
Speaker 2: was stronger than literally every man in her life.

778
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 4: She kept going.

779
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:38,000
Speaker 2: When I see Fisher as General Organa, I see a

780
00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:40,840
Speaker 2: woman who has put up with so much from so

781
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 2: many men, and yet keeps showing up for them. Princess

782
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:46,879
Speaker 2: Leiah was great, but General Organa was Fisher's real gift

783
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 2: to us, And she's who I'm going to be looking

784
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 2: to in dark times. May we all be able to

785
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:53,399
Speaker 2: get up every day and in spite of our pain

786
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:55,759
Speaker 2: and loss and fear, put on our boots and vest

787
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 2: and plan to destroy the empire. General Organa taught me that,

788
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:02,360
Speaker 2: ye you don't have to be special or chosen.

789
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:03,920
Speaker 4: To be a leader. You just have to show up

790
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:05,200
Speaker 4: and learn and do the work.

791
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:09,640
Speaker 2: And then another fan, Isaac Breen, tweeted, honor Carrie Fisher,

792
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:13,319
Speaker 2: normalize mental illness and its treatments, take life a little

793
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 2: less seriously, destroy a fascist regime, right.

794
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:19,040
Speaker 3: And I think that's how I know her myself, as

795
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:23,440
Speaker 3: an amazing writer who spoke truths whether or not you

796
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:27,759
Speaker 3: wanted it, who had amazing comedic timing and enable to

797
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 3: have a conversation and making jokes and making a light

798
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:34,560
Speaker 3: of hard issues that she had to deal with to

799
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:37,719
Speaker 3: normalize for people who can't deal with it, which we

800
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:39,600
Speaker 3: shouldn't have to do, but she was able to do

801
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:43,320
Speaker 3: it as an art form as well as proceed into

802
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:46,319
Speaker 3: a culture where she came from a time period where

803
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 3: you're supposed to be feminine, you're supposed to be these things,

804
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 3: and could have leaned into I was pretty let me

805
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 3: leave it at that. It came out full forces. I

806
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 3: have words, I have thoughts, I have strength. I have

807
00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 3: a mother who had to deal with those times of

808
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:03,319
Speaker 3: oppression as a woman, but I refused to be that woman.

809
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:05,760
Speaker 3: And I'm going to teach my daughter to come forward

810
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:09,239
Speaker 3: as a roaring lion and be my own advocate. That's

811
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:12,840
Speaker 3: how I know Carrie Fisher, and she definitely broke barriers,

812
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 3: not being just Lea, which, by the way, a phenomenal character,

813
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:21,239
Speaker 3: but as her individual who leanked into that character to

814
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 3: push forward herself as a woman who delve into women's rights,

815
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:28,719
Speaker 3: feminist rights, and also just human rights.

816
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, and she did it all well being funny.

817
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:37,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's my like. I will say like every time

818
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:40,920
Speaker 3: I saw her outside of any of Star Wars, because

819
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:43,720
Speaker 3: obviously I didn't see her much in Star Wars until recently.

820
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:47,480
Speaker 3: I saw her as a woman with amazing comediic timing

821
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:52,440
Speaker 3: with also the contextual ideas of what is wrong in society.

822
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:54,920
Speaker 3: She did a great job with it without having to

823
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:58,760
Speaker 3: have her own individual platforms like a talk show or something.

824
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:01,399
Speaker 4: Yeah, which she did have one at one point.

825
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:03,080
Speaker 3: I don't know if I knew that.

826
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think so wishful drinking.

827
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:08,480
Speaker 3: I love that title.

828
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:12,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, you should check it out. In the meantime, we

829
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 4: do believe it or not, have a little bit more

830
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:16,480
Speaker 4: for you. Oh surprise, surprise.

831
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:18,759
Speaker 2: But first we have one more coickbreak for a word

832
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 2: from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you sponsor. So

833
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:41,239
Speaker 2: this is what I will call an Annie original. I

834
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:43,960
Speaker 2: haven't found too much research on this because it's really

835
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 2: difficult to search and I tried, but it's something that's

836
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:49,880
Speaker 2: been on my mind ever since we did our feminism

837
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:52,320
Speaker 2: in Harry Potter episode. And so this is what I

838
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:56,400
Speaker 2: call in the outline my feminist Luke Skywalker discussion, because

839
00:44:57,360 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 2: I did.

840
00:44:59,600 --> 00:44:59,799
Speaker 5: I did.

841
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:04,439
Speaker 4: I want to talk about how in that in Harry

842
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:04,960
Speaker 4: Potter and in.

843
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:08,600
Speaker 2: Star Wars, there are these main male characters, Luke Skywalker

844
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 2: and Harry Potter, which by the way, are both my

845
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:14,160
Speaker 2: biggest crushes fictional crushes of all time, is more balanced

846
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 2: when it comes to traditionally feminine and masculine traits, and

847
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 2: some have even argued that these are essentially female characters

848
00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 2: in the stereotypical sense. Are they're more like female characters.

849
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:30,759
Speaker 2: Luke was originally written as a female character, so if

850
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:33,920
Speaker 2: you think about Luke Skywalker, he has plenty of masculine

851
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:37,279
Speaker 2: coded traits like hot headedness, recklessness, but he's far more

852
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 2: balanced with feminine coded traits like empathy, compassion, loyalty. When

853
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:46,239
Speaker 2: you take that even further with how Luke in particular

854
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:49,600
Speaker 2: interacts with the Force, because you've got Obi Wan and Yoda,

855
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:53,239
Speaker 2: his mentors telling him that he has to confront and

856
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 2: essentially kill his father Darth Vader to become a Jedi,

857
00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:58,960
Speaker 2: and Luke saying he can't do it because he's so

858
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 2: strongly believed and can feel that they're still good In

859
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:08,920
Speaker 2: Darth Vader, and after he turns himself over to Vader,

860
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:12,040
Speaker 2: who turns him over to the Emperor, the Emperor is

861
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:15,000
Speaker 2: urging him to embrace his anger given to his aggression

862
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:19,719
Speaker 2: kill his father. Violence and anger stereotypically masculine traits, and

863
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:22,960
Speaker 2: when Luke does that, he almost loses himself to the

864
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:26,960
Speaker 2: dark side and almost continues this cycle of violence, cutting

865
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:29,680
Speaker 2: off his father's hand when his father had cut off

866
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:33,920
Speaker 2: his hand in the previous movie. His active heroism is

867
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:35,680
Speaker 2: throwing away his weapon, which by the way, is a

868
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:39,640
Speaker 2: very phallic weapon, and refusing to fight to let those

869
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:45,200
Speaker 2: things control him, embracing those more feminine coded traits like empathy,

870
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:48,400
Speaker 2: and this act brings out the empathy and love in

871
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:51,800
Speaker 2: Darth Vader and breaks the cycle. Luke also rejects the

872
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:54,840
Speaker 2: old Jedi order as well as the Empire, much like

873
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 2: feminism demands systemic change right, and I.

874
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:01,320
Speaker 3: Will add some psychologists see this as the break of

875
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:04,960
Speaker 3: the edible cycle, specifically refusing to kill the father instead,

876
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:06,759
Speaker 3: he sacrifices and suffers for him.

877
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:12,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's a lot of comparisons to Christianity in there. Yeah,

878
00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:15,080
Speaker 2: this is just something clearly I think too much about this, perhaps,

879
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:18,680
Speaker 2: but it is something that's been on my mind, especially

880
00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 2: since I'm on this show now and watching it. And yes,

881
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 2: there is a lot of sexual imagery if you look

882
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:30,160
Speaker 2: for it, if you if you want the turning, the

883
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:33,000
Speaker 2: turning on of the lightsabers, the egg like guath Star

884
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:36,000
Speaker 2: and the sperm like X wings trying to land a shot.

885
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:41,440
Speaker 4: It's there, Samantha. And another thing I wanted to.

886
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:45,759
Speaker 2: Touch on very briefly is Luke Skywalker's sexuality because I

887
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:49,040
Speaker 2: think the fact that he doesn't have a romantic interest

888
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:51,959
Speaker 2: in the movies other than a fairly forced plotline with Leyah,

889
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 2: who yes, it's his sister, although the writers didn't know

890
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:56,080
Speaker 2: that until Return of the Jedi, so.

891
00:47:57,840 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 5: A lot.

892
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, Well, because I I was really curious, when did

893
00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 4: they know this was true?

894
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:04,799
Speaker 3: I'm saying they didn't know here, They didn't know here,

895
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:05,600
Speaker 3: they knew here.

896
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:09,680
Speaker 4: You're welcome, Samantha, and I'm sorry once again.

897
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:13,640
Speaker 2: Means that at least, if fan fiction is any guide,

898
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 2: it's easier for people to see their sexual identity reflected

899
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:20,880
Speaker 2: in Luke Skywalker. The actor Mark Hamill even spoke to that,

900
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:22,960
Speaker 2: saying you can believe whatever you want when it comes

901
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:25,279
Speaker 2: to his sexual identity. And yes, I know this is

902
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:29,280
Speaker 2: not the same as the importance of explicit representation, something

903
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:31,360
Speaker 2: we need more of and I am so ready for.

904
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:33,600
Speaker 2: I really wanted in the New movies been in Poe

905
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:41,360
Speaker 2: to end up together. Alas in the Extended Universe Legends universe,

906
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 2: Luke did go on to marry a woman, although that

907
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:46,120
Speaker 2: doesn't mean he's straight necessarily. The reason I wanted to

908
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:48,000
Speaker 2: bring this up is because, as you all know, I've

909
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:48,480
Speaker 2: been reading a.

910
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:52,560
Speaker 5: Lot of fan fiction lately and I've noticed that in

911
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 5: the world of Star Wars fan fiction there are a

912
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:57,359
Speaker 5: lot of a sexual, a romantic Luke Skywalker stories, which

913
00:48:57,400 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 5: is something I have never literally ever in all my

914
00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:01,040
Speaker 5: years of fan fiction scene before.

915
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:03,920
Speaker 4: That doesn't mean it wasn't there at all.

916
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:06,719
Speaker 2: I have very specific fan fiction circles that I traffic in,

917
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:09,880
Speaker 2: but for me, i'd never seen it, and I've enjoyed

918
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:13,719
Speaker 2: quite a few of those stories. Also a lot of

919
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:15,879
Speaker 2: bisexual han solo stories.

920
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:20,319
Speaker 5: And speaking of that, I've also sort of fallen into

921
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:22,880
Speaker 5: the Han solo Luke Skywalker ship, which is you.

922
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:23,840
Speaker 4: Tell us Guy solo?

923
00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:26,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, would you tell us a lot about Also.

924
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:29,879
Speaker 4: I can't not see it, and I don't know why

925
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:30,600
Speaker 4: or how that is.

926
00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:34,319
Speaker 2: Even the story I'm writing is sort of a one

927
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:37,480
Speaker 2: sided Sky solo story, even though there might be romance

928
00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:38,279
Speaker 2: element later.

929
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 4: Who knows what the characters will do. I certainly am

930
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:41,920
Speaker 4: not controlling the actions.

931
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:45,960
Speaker 5: I'll find out as I write, but that's one of

932
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 5: the things I love about fan fiction, and I'm clearly

933
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 5: using it to work. Three things, And yes, before you ask,

934
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:54,120
Speaker 5: it's not published again.

935
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:56,040
Speaker 4: I think it could kill someone. It's so sad.

936
00:49:56,120 --> 00:50:00,360
Speaker 2: It's made me crime multiple times writing it, and I

937
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:02,839
Speaker 2: do again I want to put out there. I'll take

938
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:05,600
Speaker 2: a prompt because I was gonna read a section of

939
00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:07,279
Speaker 2: my fan fiction on here, but I couldn't find a

940
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:10,680
Speaker 2: good non sad section other than a drunk Han solo

941
00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 2: which doesn't have to do with Leah or even this

942
00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:20,239
Speaker 2: kind of Luke Skywalker feminis thing. And yeah, I mentioned

943
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:23,960
Speaker 2: twin Stop is a really popular fan fiction thing where

944
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:27,640
Speaker 2: Luke and Layer swopped and the fanfic world took that

945
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:28,440
Speaker 2: and ran with it.

946
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:31,080
Speaker 4: Because there is an early version of Star Wars draft.

947
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:33,520
Speaker 3: That it was like that, right, And I do know

948
00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:36,160
Speaker 3: she did tell me plenty of times that Luke was

949
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:39,440
Speaker 3: originally written as a woman, and then where there were

950
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:43,160
Speaker 3: stairs between Han and Luke, he would make sure that

951
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:47,200
Speaker 3: we knew that it would have changed everything if he

952
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:47,839
Speaker 3: was a woman.

953
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:49,000
Speaker 4: Yeah.

954
00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:51,439
Speaker 2: I feel like I was just trying to pick the point,

955
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:55,120
Speaker 2: perhaps clumsily, that if Luke had been a woman, people

956
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:57,600
Speaker 2: would have assumed romantic things.

957
00:50:57,800 --> 00:50:59,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's exactly the point that you were saying. But yeah,

958
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:04,680
Speaker 3: definitely was like oh oh oh, I mean it makes sense.

959
00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:08,800
Speaker 3: There was a lot of agreement. Ah and there and

960
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:12,080
Speaker 3: now I have never known, but you've definitely let us know.

961
00:51:12,719 --> 00:51:16,239
Speaker 4: Oh yeah. I went into detail about the uh, the

962
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:19,040
Speaker 4: hot scene and the sharing of the body heats.

963
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 3: And and then like Han was supposed to leave, but

964
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:24,320
Speaker 3: then he heard Luke was in peril, so change.

965
00:51:26,239 --> 00:51:30,520
Speaker 4: Oh I was so annoying. I'm sorry, No, you weren't.

966
00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 3: You weren't annoying. You were enjoying yourself. My partner was

967
00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:36,080
Speaker 3: enjoying himself, and I was just there.

968
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:41,759
Speaker 4: Oh man, Well I really appreciate it. I meant the

969
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:43,080
Speaker 4: world to me to share.

970
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:44,840
Speaker 3: It with you. I was glad to share it with you.

971
00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:48,320
Speaker 3: I was glad to see the excitement I think between

972
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:51,440
Speaker 3: those and aliens to watch movies with the two, well,

973
00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:53,680
Speaker 3: especially you, because I think you and I have watched

974
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:56,279
Speaker 3: several movies together. But yeah, the excitement that you have

975
00:51:56,440 --> 00:51:59,680
Speaker 3: because it definitely went with you to Spider Man Spider Verse,

976
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:03,360
Speaker 3: sorry scholars, as well as some of the Marvel movies.

977
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:07,279
Speaker 3: The joy, the pure joy. But this was the climax

978
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:07,719
Speaker 3: of it all.

979
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:12,760
Speaker 2: It's it's definitely like this and Harry Potter and probably

980
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:15,319
Speaker 2: this a little bit more. Is like I said, it's

981
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:20,000
Speaker 2: like my soul is part of my soul, and it

982
00:52:20,080 --> 00:52:22,320
Speaker 2: does it made me think about the importance of storytelling

983
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:24,520
Speaker 2: and that we can enjoy all these things together and

984
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:26,600
Speaker 2: we can have all these interpretations of it, and it

985
00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:30,480
Speaker 2: can be so impactful for a young child to see

986
00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:32,640
Speaker 2: Princess Leigh and think, oh, I can't do.

987
00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:34,640
Speaker 4: That, and that's really really powerful.

988
00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:38,600
Speaker 2: And I feel like I grew up with these characters

989
00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:40,680
Speaker 2: and sometimes I catch myself missing them, like I.

990
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:43,560
Speaker 4: Miss Princess Leah, and that's fair.

991
00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:44,680
Speaker 5: Yeah.

992
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:48,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, So we've been talking for a while about this.

993
00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:52,600
Speaker 2: We were gonna have some holiday special discussion, but I

994
00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:59,000
Speaker 2: guess we'll table that. Oh And I wanted to put

995
00:52:59,239 --> 00:53:02,400
Speaker 2: in on here that I was legitimately afraid to do

996
00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:06,759
Speaker 2: this research, one that I'd never stop and two that

997
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:09,319
Speaker 2: I would come away feeling terrible about something that I loved.

998
00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:13,000
Speaker 2: But like I said, why, I totally recognize Star Wars

999
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:15,840
Speaker 2: has its problems, that Star Wars fandom certainly has its problems.

1000
00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:18,280
Speaker 2: All this did was strengthen my love for the original

1001
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:20,799
Speaker 2: trilogy and for Leya in particular.

1002
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:23,120
Speaker 3: Right, I would say, as a person who came in

1003
00:53:23,520 --> 00:53:26,160
Speaker 3: in this day and age, I didn't feel it as

1004
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:29,680
Speaker 3: problematic as some things like a John Hughes film for sure.

1005
00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:33,360
Speaker 3: And I okaye, I think Leah was a great character.

1006
00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:36,239
Speaker 3: I think knowing who Carrie Fisher was and also what

1007
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:39,920
Speaker 3: she tried to represent also made it a bigger impact,

1008
00:53:40,239 --> 00:53:44,600
Speaker 3: and I could see why she was a phenomenal individual

1009
00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:46,360
Speaker 3: to play this character.

1010
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:49,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was perfect.

1011
00:53:49,719 --> 00:53:52,279
Speaker 2: Like we said in that one quote from the part

1012
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:58,920
Speaker 2: one where it seems like just a million different things happened, correctly,

1013
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:01,000
Speaker 2: like it was just so random of an amazing that

1014
00:54:01,360 --> 00:54:04,799
Speaker 2: this came together, and she was a huge part of that. Right,

1015
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:08,759
Speaker 2: So I'm so thankful, Thankful for her, Thankful for it,

1016
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:12,840
Speaker 2: Thankful for you, Samantha for sharing this with me, Thankful

1017
00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:16,200
Speaker 2: for listeners who maybe like, oh no, two hours.

1018
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:18,160
Speaker 3: I don't know those people are going to say, oh no.

1019
00:54:18,239 --> 00:54:19,920
Speaker 3: I think they're going to appreciate the fact that you

1020
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:22,400
Speaker 3: love it as much as you do, and they probably

1021
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:24,520
Speaker 3: there's still a lot of people out there who loves

1022
00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:25,320
Speaker 3: it as much as you do.

1023
00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:30,839
Speaker 5: Well, I'm happy to share my love. And I could

1024
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:34,320
Speaker 5: have kept going and going and going, as you know. Okay,

1025
00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:37,120
Speaker 5: so I know I mentioned it quiz, but again we've

1026
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:41,040
Speaker 5: I've really gone on and on about this episode's already

1027
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:42,879
Speaker 5: super long. It was supposed to be a one part

1028
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:44,280
Speaker 5: episode and now it's two hours.

1029
00:54:44,560 --> 00:54:45,759
Speaker 3: To be fair, I knew it was going to be

1030
00:54:45,840 --> 00:54:46,200
Speaker 3: two part.

1031
00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:48,240
Speaker 4: The minute well.

1032
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:54,480
Speaker 5: You know me so well, so we're not going to

1033
00:54:54,520 --> 00:54:56,400
Speaker 5: do the quiz in this episode, but we will do

1034
00:54:56,600 --> 00:54:58,440
Speaker 5: it later off screen.

1035
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:01,400
Speaker 2: I'll I want to I know what character you get, Samantha.

1036
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:03,839
Speaker 2: I have my theory and I want to see if

1037
00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:04,360
Speaker 2: I'm correct.

1038
00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:06,759
Speaker 3: You're going to have to write this out on a

1039
00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:09,040
Speaker 3: piece of paper or okay, email it to me and

1040
00:55:09,080 --> 00:55:09,759
Speaker 3: I won't open it.

1041
00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:14,640
Speaker 4: Okay, I got Luke Skywalker, which again I don't know

1042
00:55:14,719 --> 00:55:15,440
Speaker 4: what to make of that.

1043
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:17,759
Speaker 2: I guess it goes back to my theory if we

1044
00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:21,719
Speaker 2: all ultimately love some version of ourselves who we want

1045
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:21,920
Speaker 2: to be.

1046
00:55:22,719 --> 00:55:22,919
Speaker 4: Yes.

1047
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:26,680
Speaker 2: Yes, So that brings us to the end of this

1048
00:55:26,840 --> 00:55:30,400
Speaker 2: epic two parter. I hope I did it justice and

1049
00:55:31,480 --> 00:55:36,520
Speaker 2: thank you again everyone. If you have any Star Wars

1050
00:55:36,600 --> 00:55:39,520
Speaker 2: thoughts you'd like to share, our ideas for future episodes

1051
00:55:39,800 --> 00:55:43,359
Speaker 2: or topics we should cover, please write them to us.

1052
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:46,279
Speaker 2: Our email is Stuff Media Momstuff at iHeartMedia dot com.

1053
00:55:46,600 --> 00:55:48,840
Speaker 2: You can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast

1054
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:52,040
Speaker 2: or on Instagram at Stuff I've Never Told You. Thanks

1055
00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:55,160
Speaker 2: as always to our super producer Andrew Howard, who was

1056
00:55:55,200 --> 00:55:58,920
Speaker 2: also a fan. Yeah, and thanks to you for listening

1057
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:01,640
Speaker 2: Stuff I'm Never Told You, the production of iHeartRadio. For

1058
00:56:01,719 --> 00:56:05,120
Speaker 2: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1059
00:56:05,160 --> 00:56:06,760
Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.