WEBVTT - The Quarterback and The Con Artist: Ep. 1 0:00:03.880 --> 0:00:06.280 Hey, Queen of the conn listeners, Jonathan Walton here with 0:00:06.320 --> 0:00:08.639 a brand new podcast for you to listen to. It's 0:00:08.640 --> 0:00:12.160 called The Quarterback and the con Artist. You thought the 0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:14.880 Irish Heiress was bad? Who will get a load of 0:00:14.920 --> 0:00:24.440 this psychopath? Here now is episode one. This series deals 0:00:24.480 --> 0:00:29.520 with troubling topics including suicide, drug overdosing, and dependent adult abuse. 0:00:30.160 --> 0:00:33.080 If you or someone you know is struggling with depression 0:00:33.200 --> 0:00:36.920 or suicidal thoughts, call her text nine to eighty eight 0:00:37.200 --> 0:00:42.040 right now and speak with a counselor for free. 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:46.920 Dearly beloved and honored guests, we are gathered here today 0:00:47.040 --> 0:00:48.360 to witness the coming. 0:00:48.080 --> 0:00:49.160 Together with these TV. 0:00:49.960 --> 0:00:54.160 It's ten am on December twenty second, twenty sixteen. Fifty 0:00:54.200 --> 0:00:57.160 two year old Eric Kramer is standing with his forty 0:00:57.200 --> 0:01:00.840 three year old bride, Courtney Baird, about to get married. 0:01:01.600 --> 0:01:05.560 Marriage is a sacred institution. It's a tradition of partnership, 0:01:05.880 --> 0:01:08.760 of trust, and of dependence on one another. 0:01:09.680 --> 0:01:14.320 The setting is just beautiful at the picturesque Santa Barbara Courthouse, 0:01:14.800 --> 0:01:19.520 a cavernous historic ninety year old building with Spanish Colonial 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:25.320 Revival architecture, terra cotta tiled floors, Baroque old world murals 0:01:25.360 --> 0:01:29.800 on the walls, illuminated by gargantuan antique chandeliers. 0:01:30.760 --> 0:01:34.120 Eric Kramer, do you take Courtney bar as your lovely 0:01:34.200 --> 0:01:38.920 wedded wife? Will you honor and cherish her love, trust, 0:01:39.200 --> 0:01:42.800 and commit to her through joy and pain, sickness and 0:01:42.880 --> 0:01:44.959 health until death stayed part. 0:01:46.240 --> 0:01:50.240 This is actually a civil ceremony, one of several civil 0:01:50.280 --> 0:01:54.800 ceremonies scheduled at the courthouse today, But this wedding is 0:01:55.280 --> 0:01:57.320 uniquely different from the rest. 0:01:58.760 --> 0:02:02.440 Courtney Bear, do you take Eric Kramer as your lawfully 0:02:02.520 --> 0:02:03.360 wedded husband? 0:02:04.320 --> 0:02:08.680 You're actually witnessing a top secret event. No one in 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:11.959 the groom's life knows this wedding is even taking place 0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:16.960 today because the groom, Eric Kramer, a retired NFL quarterback 0:02:17.000 --> 0:02:20.560 with millions of dollars in the bank, is suffering from 0:02:20.760 --> 0:02:25.760 a severe traumatic brain injury. He's got the mental capacity 0:02:26.080 --> 0:02:28.960 of a six year old. At this point, he should 0:02:28.960 --> 0:02:32.560 not have the ability to consent to getting married. Yet 0:02:32.800 --> 0:02:35.640 here he is saying, I do. 0:02:36.200 --> 0:02:37.640 By the power of a shid in me by the 0:02:37.639 --> 0:02:41.679 State of California, I now pronounce you husband and wife. 0:02:42.200 --> 0:02:44.280 You may kiss the bride, but. 0:02:44.360 --> 0:02:48.120 The bride in this case is a conniving con artist, 0:02:48.639 --> 0:02:52.920 and at this very moment, she's exploiting a gaping loophole 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:54.760 in the criminal justice system. 0:02:55.080 --> 0:02:56.680 Courtney was stealing from him. 0:02:57.000 --> 0:02:59.320 Oh she was milk and I'm for every cent he had. 0:02:59.720 --> 0:03:02.640 What do you think she was thinking this marriage would 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:03.160 do for her? 0:03:03.760 --> 0:03:06.800 This secret marriage was a way to keep taking his money. 0:03:07.360 --> 0:03:10.400 It would give her immunity from any type of criminal 0:03:10.440 --> 0:03:12.680 prosecution because they're married. 0:03:13.080 --> 0:03:21.840 What's his hers? What's hers? 0:03:22.360 --> 0:03:25.320 I'm Jonathan Walton and this is The Quarterback and the 0:03:25.320 --> 0:03:42.520 con Artist, Episode one. She was a gold digger. I'm 0:03:42.560 --> 0:03:45.000 not a football guy. I don't think I've ever seen 0:03:45.040 --> 0:03:50.880 an entire football game from start to end. It's November 0:03:51.000 --> 0:03:53.880 twenty twenty four. I'm sitting at a table now in 0:03:53.920 --> 0:03:57.480 the Greater Los Angeles area home of retired NFL quarterback 0:03:57.880 --> 0:04:01.720 Eric Kramer, confessing my object ignorance and my lack of 0:04:01.800 --> 0:04:05.800 passion for the sport of football. Like football holds no 0:04:05.960 --> 0:04:09.720 interest for me. But I just finished reading Eric Kramer's 0:04:09.720 --> 0:04:14.320 book titled The Ultimate Comeback, and it blew my mind. 0:04:15.160 --> 0:04:18.000 It starts out being about football, but then it turns 0:04:18.040 --> 0:04:22.760 into this insane, sweeping tale with crazy twists and turns 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:26.839 not to mention the rise and fall of a sinister 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:32.000 con woman who infiltrates Eric's life and steals hundreds of 0:04:32.120 --> 0:04:35.400 thousands of dollars from him. And I just can't help 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:37.960 but gush about the book now that I'm sitting in 0:04:37.960 --> 0:04:42.479 front of the Eric Kramer himself. But your book, your 0:04:42.600 --> 0:04:46.920 story is just so compelling and so dramatic and gut wrenching, 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:49.760 and it has a happy ending, right, It's inspiring, It 0:04:49.760 --> 0:04:53.359 has a hopeful ending. Why write it? What made you 0:04:53.400 --> 0:04:56.080 think you could or should or would? Why did you? 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:00.599 It was something that I want. I wanted to do 0:05:01.440 --> 0:05:07.200 initially for Griffin and Dylan, Eric's two sons. The feedback 0:05:07.279 --> 0:05:13.760 I got from other people was unexpected. How other people 0:05:13.800 --> 0:05:17.480 relate to what happened for me has happened to millions 0:05:17.520 --> 0:05:21.160 of others. And I think that's what's become most gratifying 0:05:21.320 --> 0:05:24.120 is it's gone beyond what I even thought it would be. 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:29.040 Eric Kramer rises to fame in the early nineteen nineties 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:37.200 as a celebrated quarterback. He plays for the New Orleans Saints, 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:41.760 the Atlanta Falcons, the Calgary Stampeders, the Detroit Lions, the 0:05:41.839 --> 0:05:47.000 Chicago Bears, and the San Diego Chargers. But what's truly 0:05:47.120 --> 0:05:51.640 fascinating about Eric Kramer's career is growing up, it didn't 0:05:51.640 --> 0:05:54.640 really seem like he'd ever make it to the NFL. 0:05:55.920 --> 0:05:58.360 We went to those little, tiny Catholic high schools Angenevi. 0:05:58.400 --> 0:06:00.159 Who's high school OUP in Panorama City. 0:06:00.560 --> 0:06:03.440 That's Chris German, one of Eric's childhood friends. 0:06:03.680 --> 0:06:07.479 We would carpool together, we played on the same team. 0:06:07.880 --> 0:06:09.800 You know, we were just high school buddies, you know, 0:06:09.880 --> 0:06:12.320 little knuckleheads rolling to school together. 0:06:13.480 --> 0:06:17.320 And could you see back then that he was destined 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:18.960 for the NFL? Was that obvious? 0:06:19.240 --> 0:06:19.440 No? 0:06:20.360 --> 0:06:20.840 He was good. 0:06:20.960 --> 0:06:23.760 He was a good athlete, definitely had the drive, you know, 0:06:23.760 --> 0:06:27.680 and he was a good quarterback, but pro caliber not 0:06:27.800 --> 0:06:28.359 so much. 0:06:28.160 --> 0:06:28.679 At the time. 0:06:29.720 --> 0:06:35.280 And what changed, obviously his perseverance and his drive and 0:06:35.320 --> 0:06:39.000 his vision and the people he surrounded him with. I mean, 0:06:39.040 --> 0:06:42.279 you meet that guy, you know, he's he's got a drive, 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:45.680 just putting his nose to the grindstone and going for it, 0:06:45.720 --> 0:06:49.200 and he's stuck with it, and you know, he made 0:06:49.200 --> 0:06:49.720 it find it. 0:06:51.160 --> 0:06:54.240 Eric Kramer is living proof that it doesn't really matter 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:56.960 what kind of hand your delt in life, you can 0:06:57.080 --> 0:06:59.400 still end up winning the whole game. 0:07:00.000 --> 0:07:04.559 I worked hard at it. I physically train all the time, 0:07:05.920 --> 0:07:12.520 I watched a ton of film. I was naturally very tight, 0:07:12.640 --> 0:07:16.000 like non flexible, so then I stretched and I was 0:07:16.080 --> 0:07:20.360 naturally very slow, so then I got faster just because 0:07:20.400 --> 0:07:24.040 I ran. I was everything physically you wouldn't want to be, 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:26.280 but then decided to be something different. 0:07:27.040 --> 0:07:29.200 I don't know anything about football, but I've read a 0:07:29.240 --> 0:07:32.200 lot about you, and I've read a lot about what 0:07:32.320 --> 0:07:35.920 other players and coaches have said about you publicly in 0:07:35.960 --> 0:07:40.440 the press. I get the impression you weren't the fastest player, 0:07:40.600 --> 0:07:43.880 you weren't the strongest player, you weren't the best performing player, 0:07:44.520 --> 0:07:49.280 but you were the smartest player. You treated that football 0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:53.240 field like a chessboard, and you planned your moves, and 0:07:53.280 --> 0:07:56.840 you studied harder than anyone else. Is that a fair assessment? 0:07:57.000 --> 0:08:00.280 Is that how you see yourself? Am I wrong? Am 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:00.920 I crazy? 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:03.800 I think that is right. I don't think you're wrong, 0:08:03.920 --> 0:08:07.280 and I don't think you're crazy. Other than being the 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:13.080 most obviously talented physically or otherwise person, there are other 0:08:13.160 --> 0:08:16.040 ways to do the job and get it done. Because 0:08:16.040 --> 0:08:18.040 a lot of this, I don't care what sport it 0:08:18.120 --> 0:08:20.480 is you're playing, or whatever it is you're doing in life. 0:08:20.920 --> 0:08:24.480 It's not always filled with success. The process of getting 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:28.520 better is filled with falling down and then hopefully getting 0:08:28.560 --> 0:08:32.360 back up and finding ways to get back up only 0:08:32.440 --> 0:08:33.520 do it better next time. 0:08:34.320 --> 0:08:37.560 We always struggled with talent, I mean the talent in 0:08:37.600 --> 0:08:41.600 that division. It was Brett Farb and Reggie White and 0:08:41.640 --> 0:08:42.840 Barry Sanders. 0:08:43.280 --> 0:08:47.640 That's former NFL coach Dave Wantstad. He hand picks Eric Kramer. 0:08:48.160 --> 0:08:50.920 Eric checked all the boxes that we were looking for. 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:54.320 To be starting quarterback for the Chicago Bears in nineteen 0:08:54.400 --> 0:08:57.800 ninety four, and Eric goes on to win some big 0:08:57.840 --> 0:09:01.880 games while playing for the Bears, especially against the venerated 0:09:02.080 --> 0:09:03.199 Dallas Cowboys. 0:09:03.679 --> 0:09:07.000 I remember being in that locker room and winning that 0:09:07.120 --> 0:09:10.360 game on national TV and just looking at the players, 0:09:10.559 --> 0:09:13.840 and I remember specifically Eric, obviously because he was a quarterback, 0:09:13.880 --> 0:09:16.400 saying we're going places. 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:17.960 We're going to make some noise this year. 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:21.560 And Eric credits part of his success as an NFL 0:09:21.679 --> 0:09:26.200 quarterback to doctor Kevin Wildenhaus and the visualization technique he 0:09:26.320 --> 0:09:29.280 showed Eric how to utilize to dial in his game. 0:09:30.640 --> 0:09:35.200 He taught me about this sort of deep breathing and 0:09:35.280 --> 0:09:39.240 meditation and sort of guided imagery where you could put 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:44.000 yourself somewhere in a relaxed state before you ever got there, 0:09:47.520 --> 0:09:50.840 and you could start imagining what would happen, whether it 0:09:50.880 --> 0:09:53.960 be during a game or not during a game, and 0:09:55.000 --> 0:09:58.360 kind of sees the world as it's going to happen 0:09:58.400 --> 0:10:00.680 before it happens, and then it can happen. 0:10:03.320 --> 0:10:07.160 So while the fans are screaming and coaches are barking orders, 0:10:07.760 --> 0:10:12.600 Eric gets quiet, goes inside himself and maps out what 0:10:12.800 --> 0:10:14.000 to do next. 0:10:15.440 --> 0:10:20.240 It was the calmest I'd ever been while things were happening. 0:10:20.720 --> 0:10:24.920 So Kevin Wilbinhouse, he was the glove that all the 0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:26.600 other fingers finally fit into. 0:10:28.440 --> 0:10:31.800 Add to that, Eric Kramer has a drive and a 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:36.120 determination that goes far beyond most other athletes. For instance, 0:10:36.360 --> 0:10:39.760 in nineteen ninety, when he gets dumped by his agent 0:10:40.000 --> 0:10:42.440 after being cut from the team he was playing for 0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:46.640 at the time, the Calgary Stampeders, Eric's future looks bleak 0:10:46.960 --> 0:10:52.040 and his prospects are nonexistent. No agent wants to sign him, 0:10:52.160 --> 0:10:55.080 and it really looks like his career in the NFL 0:10:55.679 --> 0:11:01.400 is over. But instead of quit football and giving up 0:11:02.040 --> 0:11:06.400 agents be damned. Eric actually picks up the phone himself 0:11:06.640 --> 0:11:10.520 and makes calls to all twenty eight teams in the NFL, 0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:13.760 offering them his services as quarterback. 0:11:14.640 --> 0:11:18.080 I would call the main number and you know, asks 0:11:18.120 --> 0:11:21.240 to speak to their I don't know, scouting department. Whoever 0:11:21.280 --> 0:11:23.960 answered the phone was like, sure, we'll connect you with that. 0:11:25.280 --> 0:11:27.320 You know, no one ever picked up, or if they did, 0:11:27.360 --> 0:11:30.400 they're like, okay, thanks. There was kind of my last 0:11:30.400 --> 0:11:31.040 ditch effort. 0:11:31.320 --> 0:11:35.760 Really, and all those teams pretty much ignore Eric Kramer. 0:11:36.280 --> 0:11:38.680 You can hardly blame them. That's just not how the 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:42.360 NFL works. You can't randomly call up a team and 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:45.280 tell them you're available and expect them to hire you. 0:11:45.800 --> 0:11:51.400 And yet, out of the twenty eight phone calls Eric makes. 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:54.960 The Lions were the one team that called me back, and. 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:58.880 In nineteen ninety one, Eric becomes starting quarterback for the 0:11:58.920 --> 0:11:59.880 Detroit Lion. 0:12:00.800 --> 0:12:04.600 I mean it was just serendipitous, I guess, you know. 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:07.680 I mean, it's just somehow meant to be. I don't 0:12:07.720 --> 0:12:11.320 know too many guys have called their way onto a team. 0:12:11.720 --> 0:12:15.960 Another really fascinating moment in Eric's NFL career happens when 0:12:16.080 --> 0:12:18.120 he's playing for the Chicago Bears. 0:12:18.480 --> 0:12:21.600 It was I don't know, game four or five or 0:12:21.600 --> 0:12:26.439 something in nineteen ninety four, and I come out of 0:12:26.480 --> 0:12:29.960 that game with a separated shoulder, right shoulder. 0:12:30.000 --> 0:12:33.959 And Eric is in tremendous pain as a right handed quarterback, 0:12:34.240 --> 0:12:37.480 having a separated right shoulder means he can no longer 0:12:37.600 --> 0:12:42.000 throw a football like at all. But Eric hires this 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:47.760 magical guru herbalist, guy who reportedly helps NFL great Joe 0:12:47.800 --> 0:12:50.520 Montana Antenna beat Chaste. He throws on the right. 0:12:50.559 --> 0:12:51.160 Oh what a thrill. 0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:55.040 How's that bred heal his throwing arm after he was 0:12:55.080 --> 0:12:59.720 badly injured. So Eric flies this herbalist out to Chicago 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:03.760 and he sets up shop in Eric's kitchen. He's got 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:08.280 all kinds of weird potions and powders and ingredients that 0:13:08.320 --> 0:13:12.600 he's mixing up and it smells like the stench of death. 0:13:13.640 --> 0:13:19.000 He's over the stove eventually cooking something in there. I 0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:21.240 don't know. He tells me there's deer tendon and there's 0:13:21.280 --> 0:13:24.120 other kind of stuff in here, and I was like, 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:26.439 I didn't think twice about it. I'm like, all right, great, 0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:28.480 and he's like, here, drink this. 0:13:29.520 --> 0:13:33.600 The herbalist hands Eric a cup of this death smelling swill, 0:13:34.120 --> 0:13:39.360 this deer tendon djure, and Eric gulps it down because 0:13:39.559 --> 0:13:42.160 he's desperate to get his throwing arm back at this point, 0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:49.800 and he'll try anything lo and behold. A couple hours later, 0:13:50.559 --> 0:13:57.400 Eric's shoulder actually feels fine. The pain is gone. 0:13:58.240 --> 0:14:02.640 I'm out in the backyard out throwing to him, and 0:14:03.280 --> 0:14:06.600 it was feeling really good, literally throwing passes in the 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:11.679 backyard with a separated shoulder that now doesn't hurt. So 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:14.880 there was some time there that like, I be okay, 0:14:14.920 --> 0:14:17.679 this is actually gonna work. I can go practice tomorrow. 0:14:18.200 --> 0:14:21.400 So Eric goes to bed that night feeling great. But 0:14:21.960 --> 0:14:26.160 the next morning he wakes up and kneels at the 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:30.360 altar of the porcelain God and barfs his guts out. 0:14:31.280 --> 0:14:36.160 I throw everything up and I couldn't feel worse like sick. 0:14:36.520 --> 0:14:40.200 And Eric's shoulder pain is back with a vengeance. 0:14:41.480 --> 0:14:46.120 So so apparently it wasn't as magical as it may 0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:50.600 have seen it first, my shoulder whatever a little glimmer 0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:52.800 of hope I had, thinking I could play with this thing. 0:14:52.880 --> 0:14:53.200 I could. 0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:57.480 Eric Kramer endures a lot of stops and starts like that, 0:14:57.880 --> 0:15:00.720 and a lot of highs and lows during his storied 0:15:00.960 --> 0:15:09.680 thirteen year professional football career. Though it's not until he's 0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:14.160 recovering from a traumatic brain injury that a tall, blonde 0:15:14.320 --> 0:15:19.600 con artist she was a goalbigger named Courtney Baird. 0:15:20.360 --> 0:15:22.280 Well, first of I don't call off Courtney to me. 0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:26.200 Her name is Corny sinks her hooks into a severely 0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:27.920 brain damaged Eric Kramer. 0:15:28.280 --> 0:15:31.120 We're just looking for him to get better, get better, 0:15:31.200 --> 0:15:34.280 get better. Do your treatment go in He was being 0:15:34.320 --> 0:15:37.200 treated every day, five days a week. We would not 0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:40.280 think that anybody would be coming in here and trying 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:42.200 to steal from him. That would just be cruel. 0:15:43.880 --> 0:15:47.640 But to understand how a devious con woman can gain 0:15:47.720 --> 0:15:51.960 access and control of a mentally infirmed Eric Kramer, you 0:15:52.080 --> 0:15:55.160 have to understand the root cause of Eric's brain injury 0:15:55.560 --> 0:15:59.560 and the clear and present danger of playing professional football. 0:16:01.280 --> 0:16:05.400 This morning a devastating blow to the NFL. Ninety nine 0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:08.720 percent of deceased players' brains examined in a new study 0:16:09.080 --> 0:16:13.040 showed signs of CTE, a degenerative brain disease linked to 0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:14.360 repeated hits to the head. 0:16:14.600 --> 0:16:17.800 This is much more common in football players than we 0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:19.200 previously anticipated. 0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:24.360 CTE or chronic traumatic encephalopathy, is a brain disease that 0:16:24.520 --> 0:16:31.000 causes depression, anxiety, mood changes, memory loss, erratic behavior, and 0:16:31.080 --> 0:16:33.359 a host of other neurological disorders. 0:16:33.520 --> 0:16:35.320 There's been a number of football players that have committed 0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:39.280 suicide right that have had these brain injuries, and it's 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:41.200 been ascribed to this repeated head trauma. 0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:43.320 In his line of work, I'm. 0:16:43.160 --> 0:16:48.320 A head and neck surgeon, a maxillofacial trauma surgeon in Northridge, California. 0:16:48.400 --> 0:16:52.360 Doctor Mark Kerner sees brain injury every single day. 0:16:53.080 --> 0:16:59.840 CTE is neurotrauma, brain trauma that's from repeated injury to 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:02.800 the head, so repeated blows to the head, and it 0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:07.480 was first described in football players by a pathologist. The 0:17:07.480 --> 0:17:09.840 theory is is from repeated blows to the head as 0:17:09.840 --> 0:17:15.040 football players get it causes this prolonged and profound brain 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:19.680 damage that was initially very difficult to diagnose but now 0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:23.080 can be seen on autopsy. So it has some very 0:17:23.200 --> 0:17:28.760 characteristic findings on pathology correlated with their pre death behavior. 0:17:29.119 --> 0:17:31.280 And I'm a big, huge football fan. I watch it 0:17:31.280 --> 0:17:34.200 every weekend. When you see these guys hit the turf 0:17:34.680 --> 0:17:37.359 with their helmet, you know that's a blow too, And 0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:40.359 even though they don't have quote unquote a concussion, I 0:17:40.359 --> 0:17:42.480 mean they hit their heads pretty hard on this turf 0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:45.159 or even on the grass, and you just like I 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:48.040 always cringe when I see that. So it's not only 0:17:48.200 --> 0:17:51.399 just a blow to the head, but it's these swipes, 0:17:51.440 --> 0:17:54.920 it's these hitting the ground hard, it's all these things. 0:17:55.040 --> 0:17:59.280 And I think the helmets have improved dramatically. Even though 0:17:59.720 --> 0:18:03.280 it doesn't reduce the severity of these injuries to zero, 0:18:03.359 --> 0:18:06.320 we still see a lot of players get concussions. 0:18:07.119 --> 0:18:10.240 And I've seen the imaging of the head getting hit 0:18:10.280 --> 0:18:13.919 and just the brain just slashes around. It's like a 0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:15.320 car accident in your head. 0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:18.439 Yeah, So exactly what's happening is the brain's encased in 0:18:18.480 --> 0:18:21.560 a pretty tight cavity, and just like you said, as 0:18:21.560 --> 0:18:24.000 it gets it goes hits from side to side, you 0:18:24.040 --> 0:18:29.639 get shearing of neurons, and that sharing trauma not only 0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:32.880 probably kills off some neurons, but creates sort of micro 0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:35.879 scarring in the brain in different areas of the brain, 0:18:36.240 --> 0:18:39.639 which results in the symptoms and the memory loss and 0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:44.040 maybe even the depression and some of the other psychiatric 0:18:44.119 --> 0:18:47.960 type diseases that comes with that, and the behavioral changes 0:18:48.560 --> 0:18:53.720 and impulse control that football players who have been known 0:18:53.760 --> 0:18:57.560 to suffer from have, and I think the NFL is 0:18:57.920 --> 0:18:59.800 trying to deal with it. It's why they have the 0:18:59.840 --> 0:19:03.320 new trauma specialists on the sidelines. And you know, it's 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:06.120 basically from having repeated concussions, but. 0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:10.000 The symptoms of CTE are many and they can really 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:11.879 wreak havoc in a person's life. 0:19:12.520 --> 0:19:15.840 It's akin to like a personality disorder, and it's like 0:19:15.880 --> 0:19:19.240 we're one second everything's fine, and then the next it's 0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:22.160 it's not. It's like turbulent in that way. 0:19:22.840 --> 0:19:26.200 That's twenty six year old Dylan Kramer, Eric's son. 0:19:26.600 --> 0:19:29.080 My dad was my hero growing up, and I wanted 0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:31.639 to be just like him. I always looked up to 0:19:31.720 --> 0:19:33.439 him to the way that he went about doing things 0:19:33.480 --> 0:19:36.120 that you know, he would set a goal and then 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:39.159 stick to it with a high level of discipline. 0:19:39.520 --> 0:19:42.440 You really do look a lot like your dad, Yeah, 0:19:43.040 --> 0:19:45.640 a lot. You got you got the Eric Kramer face, Yeah, 0:19:45.680 --> 0:19:48.560 I get that a lot. What's it like being the 0:19:48.600 --> 0:19:50.720 son of an NFL quarterback? 0:19:51.520 --> 0:19:55.399 You know, it's definitely an excuse to get picked first 0:19:55.400 --> 0:19:57.200 in whatever sport they thought. 0:19:57.280 --> 0:19:59.600 You're Eric Kramer's kid, you must be good yeah, and 0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:00.760 they pick. Yeah. 0:20:00.760 --> 0:20:03.240 So, like a year or two before high school, I 0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:06.240 kind of gave up football and picked up lacrosse. And 0:20:06.359 --> 0:20:07.800 I was really happy I did that at the time 0:20:07.880 --> 0:20:12.080 because I was tired of dealing with all the expectations 0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:13.680 and stuff to be good at football and whatnot. 0:20:13.840 --> 0:20:16.080 Wow, you know, I never thought of that. Yeah, yeah, 0:20:16.119 --> 0:20:18.480 I guess they do expect you because you're like this 0:20:18.520 --> 0:20:21.439 big guy, you look like Eric Kramer. You must be 0:20:21.440 --> 0:20:23.560 a good quarterback, or you must be good at football, 0:20:23.760 --> 0:20:26.120 right right, exactly. So that's a lot of pressure. 0:20:26.240 --> 0:20:28.680 Yeah, oh yeah, Well that doesn't make it clear. My 0:20:28.760 --> 0:20:30.680 dad never put pressure on me to play football or 0:20:30.720 --> 0:20:33.080 anything like that. I think he experienced that from his 0:20:33.359 --> 0:20:35.879 family growing up, and he didn't want that for his kids. 0:20:35.880 --> 0:20:37.760 So he did a great job of not doing that. 0:20:38.119 --> 0:20:40.760 Like you were free to pursue anything, anyone, anything you 0:20:40.800 --> 0:20:42.479 want to be. He supported you anything. 0:20:42.800 --> 0:20:44.480 For a little bit there, I wanted to be a pilot, 0:20:45.880 --> 0:20:48.200 so on my birthdays he got me a flying lesson. 0:20:48.600 --> 0:20:50.480 Like a pilot, like an airline pilot, or like a 0:20:50.560 --> 0:20:53.400 jet fighter in the military in the US Air Force. 0:20:53.480 --> 0:20:56.560 Like somehow, some way, we had gotten to go to 0:20:56.640 --> 0:21:00.440 a legitimate flight simulator at some military base, but that 0:21:00.520 --> 0:21:02.560 was almost autistic in a sense, like I knew every 0:21:02.640 --> 0:21:05.919 plane that was around, I knew like all their specifications, 0:21:05.960 --> 0:21:08.000 all like everything like that. So I was really into it, 0:21:08.040 --> 0:21:09.320 and he very much fostered that. 0:21:10.440 --> 0:21:13.280 Dylan is just ten years old at that point, but 0:21:13.680 --> 0:21:17.879 as the years pass, he notices drastic changes in his 0:21:17.960 --> 0:21:29.639 dad's personality. Do you blame CTE for what happened to 0:21:29.640 --> 0:21:31.160 your dad? Yeah? 0:21:31.520 --> 0:21:34.320 Yeah, yeah, in a huge ass and I think it's 0:21:34.320 --> 0:21:35.080 the biggest factor. 0:21:35.320 --> 0:21:38.879 Can say, you can totally say huge ass dude in 0:21:38.920 --> 0:21:40.000 a huge ass way. 0:21:39.880 --> 0:21:42.240 In a huge ass way, that is easily the biggest 0:21:42.280 --> 0:21:45.600 factor in my opinion. Yeah, because I think that affected 0:21:45.600 --> 0:21:51.040 his ability to connect with people like his family, his son, 0:21:51.760 --> 0:21:57.439 both sons, you know, and that was kind of a 0:21:57.480 --> 0:22:00.840 hard thing for me to sort of grasp. I definitely 0:22:00.880 --> 0:22:05.200 think he is the biggest contributor by far. I don't 0:22:05.200 --> 0:22:07.120 think that he was aware of what was going on, 0:22:07.720 --> 0:22:10.120 I genuinely don't. I think he was trying an absolute 0:22:10.200 --> 0:22:15.760 artist to figure it out, like going to a bunch 0:22:15.760 --> 0:22:19.040 of different doctors and professional help and all that sort 0:22:19.080 --> 0:22:21.800 of stuff, and you know, obviously nothing really works. 0:22:21.840 --> 0:22:22.240 And. 0:22:24.560 --> 0:22:28.479 Yeah, I think he is a huge reason for that 0:22:29.359 --> 0:22:29.800 for sure. 0:22:30.760 --> 0:22:33.639 And it was during the height of his NFL career 0:22:34.000 --> 0:22:39.000 that Eric Kramer starts becoming sort of a different person. Listen, 0:22:39.280 --> 0:22:42.000 head trauma is a hell of a thing, and in 0:22:42.200 --> 0:22:46.960 Eric's life, violent hits to the head start young. Looking back, 0:22:47.320 --> 0:22:51.200 it's hard to even calculate just how many times Eric 0:22:51.280 --> 0:22:53.920 is either hit in the head by another player or 0:22:54.000 --> 0:22:57.680 how many times his head actually hits the ground during a. 0:22:57.680 --> 0:23:01.320 Tackle without having to go back and do all the resource. 0:23:01.400 --> 0:23:04.879 I would say five hundred wouldn't seem like a lot. 0:23:05.600 --> 0:23:08.439 Well, you're also talking during practices as well. 0:23:09.080 --> 0:23:11.720 That's on a Jurgen. She went to high school with 0:23:11.880 --> 0:23:15.080 Eric and she's known him and watched him play since 0:23:15.080 --> 0:23:16.680 they were both teenagers. 0:23:16.960 --> 0:23:21.080 How many days of practice did you get in youth football, 0:23:21.240 --> 0:23:24.879 high school and stuff, but in college too during practices 0:23:24.920 --> 0:23:27.359 because you're trying, everyone's trying to make the team, so 0:23:27.359 --> 0:23:31.919 you're going to try extra hard, harder, and you're going 0:23:32.000 --> 0:23:34.000 to hit that ground. And that's why I always kept saying, 0:23:34.040 --> 0:23:38.200 it wasn't the little concussions, it's that hits that when 0:23:38.200 --> 0:23:40.720 he fell to the ground, your neck hitting the ground, 0:23:40.880 --> 0:23:43.160 your neck head hit the ground. I don't care if 0:23:43.160 --> 0:23:45.880 you have that helmet or not. I would say it's 0:23:45.960 --> 0:23:48.000 well over two three thousand. 0:23:48.320 --> 0:23:51.800 Three thousand hits to the head over a person's lifetime 0:23:52.000 --> 0:23:54.040 is inordinately damaging. 0:23:54.520 --> 0:23:56.800 Not to mention, there's all kinds of ways for you 0:23:56.840 --> 0:23:59.199 heading to hit. It could be slammed on the ground, 0:23:59.440 --> 0:24:01.600 it could be a helmet to helmet with somebody else. 0:24:01.960 --> 0:24:04.560 It could be someone's nee to your head who's trying 0:24:04.600 --> 0:24:07.359 to jump over you but don't quite get over you. 0:24:08.680 --> 0:24:11.160 There was only one time I was ever knocked out, 0:24:11.640 --> 0:24:15.520