1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:04,840 Speaker 1: I cannot wait to begin our exodus from this gray country, 2 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:09,680 Speaker 1: said Asthma. Yes, my Matmor. The people of Teneratic death too, seriously. 3 00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:12,960 Speaker 1: There's no room for the bailful arts here, and truth 4 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:16,280 Speaker 1: be told, they do not deserve our necromatic skills. I 5 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:19,959 Speaker 1: concur and agree wholeheartedly. If the people here insist on 6 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:23,959 Speaker 1: taking such a sacred stance on expiration, then fine. Good 7 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:26,279 Speaker 1: luck talking to the dead and raising skeletons from the 8 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:29,720 Speaker 1: grave without us around. Indeed, I wish them luck too 9 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 1: in the completion of the canal project without our splendid 10 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: bone golumns to do the heavy lifting. Yes, they lack vision, 11 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 1: I shall not miss them, Yes, good bones, though strong 12 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 1: dairy industry here, I will miss the calcium well, yes, 13 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 1: but but but our destination will first of all be 14 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:51,479 Speaker 1: free of their hyper religious nonsense, and it is filled 15 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 1: with the remains as well, For sinsor is populated exclusively 16 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: by the bones and mummies of a people ten centuries dead. No, 17 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 1: at more, we shall build such an empire of necromancy. Oh. Yes, 18 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 1: flying buttresses made from actual ixia and coxyges, a vast 19 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 1: amphitheater of gladiators reanimated mummies serving us delicacies on silver trays, 20 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:18,480 Speaker 1: skull goblets of wine and all to the music of 21 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 1: piping bone flutes, or a public bathwork made entirely of 22 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:29,480 Speaker 1: Maxillayan mandibles, twin thrones crafted of coiling vertebrae, Hell to 23 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:44,399 Speaker 1: our powers of bones. Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind? 24 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 1: The production of My Heart Radio. Hey, are you welcome 25 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 1: to Stuff to Blow your Mind? My name is Robert Lamb, 26 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 1: and I'm Joe McCormick and Robert. I I know today's 27 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 1: episode at you in a necromantic adventure mood. So you 28 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:06,559 Speaker 1: dove into the old Clark Ashton Smith, didn't you. Yeah. 29 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: When I saw that we were going to be doing 30 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:12,520 Speaker 1: an episode titled The Bone Palace about novel uses for 31 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:17,080 Speaker 1: bones throughout human and to a certain extent, animal history, 32 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 1: my mind instantly went to necromancers, and so I instantly 33 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 1: thought of Clark Ashton Smith's excellent little short story, The 34 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 1: Empire of the Necromancers, And so the cold open we 35 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:32,360 Speaker 1: began with that little skit. It was basically a riff 36 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:35,520 Speaker 1: on on that particular tail and the characters in it, 37 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 1: in which we find a couple of necromancers packing up 38 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:42,520 Speaker 1: shop leaving of the city in the world of the 39 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 1: living in order to set up like a decadent necromantic 40 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 1: playground in the desert. You know, you think that they 41 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 1: would need to stay at least around some of the 42 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 1: living to do business, right, Like, you can't just like 43 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 1: be a necromancer inside a pyramid, Like there's a lot 44 00:02:57,360 --> 00:03:00,799 Speaker 1: to work with, but nobody to work for, right, I mean? 45 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 1: And yeah, and then when you actually get into necromancy 46 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 1: as it's treated in a lot of fantasy, you know, 47 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 1: it's about not only death but life. It's about the 48 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 1: cross of between the two. And so I don't know, 49 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 1: it's it's one of these tales. A lot of Clark 50 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 1: Ashton Smith's tales are at once very you know, very 51 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 1: deep and exotic feeling. You know, they have this this 52 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 1: dark otherworldliness to them, and yet there's often a little 53 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:28,639 Speaker 1: cheekiness as well. There's a sort of strange humor to them. 54 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 1: And I think that's that's evident in his original story, which, 55 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 1: by the way, if you want to read it out there, 56 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 1: you can find it online for free at Eldric Dark 57 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 1: dot com. I believe they have all of Clark Ashton 58 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 1: Smith's writings assembled there well, so obviously a palace made 59 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 1: out of bones, a bone building, would be a necromancer's dream. 60 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 1: But it's hard to imagine such a place existing in reality, 61 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 1: or at least it would have been for me a 62 00:03:56,440 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 1: few days ago. But now maybe, um, maybe that should 63 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 1: not be so hard to imagine, because I want to 64 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 1: start off today by going on a voyage of the 65 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 1: mind's eye to to venture into the prehistoric past. Will 66 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 1: you come with me, Robert, let us go to a 67 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 1: place that is almost a necromantic kingdom. Uh. It's a 68 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:19,359 Speaker 1: place that is today in southwestern Russia. This would be 69 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:23,720 Speaker 1: about five hundred kilometers south of Moscow, uh, close to 70 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:26,479 Speaker 1: the banks of the Don River, near the modern day 71 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:30,719 Speaker 1: city of Voronesh. And today this area is is basically 72 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:35,160 Speaker 1: kind of a fertile region of prairie type ecosystems, relatively 73 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:38,840 Speaker 1: moderate continental climate. It's a major center of agriculture in 74 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:41,600 Speaker 1: modern Russia. Actually, I think they grow staple crops like 75 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:44,920 Speaker 1: sugar beets and potatoes, and they do animal agriculture as 76 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 1: well there. But twenty thousand years ago there was still 77 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 1: an ice age ruling the planet, and especially these northern 78 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 1: realms of the planet. The most recent ice Age, known 79 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 1: scientifically is the Last Glacial Period or l g P, 80 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: lasted from more than a hundred thousand years ago I 81 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 1: think maybe roughly like a hundred and twenty thousand years 82 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 1: ago or so to roughly twelve thousand years ago, and 83 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 1: this was the last great glaciation of the broader Pleistocene Age, 84 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 1: which began more like two and a half million years ago. 85 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:23,160 Speaker 1: So the Pleistocene Age has featured this back and forth 86 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:27,919 Speaker 1: pattern over over geological time, this pattern of repeated glaciation 87 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 1: events where for thousands of years at a time, the 88 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:34,479 Speaker 1: world will grow cold and the polar ice caps will 89 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 1: creep down over the map towards the equator, like this 90 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 1: sort of slow paint drip of frozen death. And then 91 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 1: these glacial periods will be followed by warmer interglacial periods, 92 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:47,840 Speaker 1: sort of like with the one we think we're in 93 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 1: right now, where the ice sheets retreat back toward the 94 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 1: polls and complex life pours back into these ice paved 95 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 1: landscapes that are left behind. Now, of course this sounds 96 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:02,840 Speaker 1: very apocalyptic, but again remember that these changes happen over 97 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:05,720 Speaker 1: like many thousands of years, so you know, generally humans 98 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:08,280 Speaker 1: and animals have have time to sort of adapt in 99 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:11,280 Speaker 1: migrate back and forth to adjust their lives to the 100 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 1: changing climates. The interglacial period that we're in right now 101 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:18,600 Speaker 1: is known as the Holocene epoch, and since it began 102 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 1: more than ten thousand years ago, this relatively warm Holocene 103 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 1: includes all of recorded human history. Think about that. We 104 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:32,920 Speaker 1: have no surviving literature at all with firsthand accounts of 105 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:36,920 Speaker 1: what these little ice ages were like, but there absolutely 106 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 1: were humans around at the time. There were humans, humans 107 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:44,920 Speaker 1: like us, crawling the earth during these frozen periods. Homo 108 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 1: sapiens actually came to exist during the Pleistocene ilbe at 109 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 1: first in warmer equatorial regions, but they soon began to 110 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 1: spread all over the planet. We've we've talked about the 111 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 1: spread of humans in recent episodes, even too far reaches 112 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:01,479 Speaker 1: in the north where the end would be ever howling, 113 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 1: and this this menace of ice loomed. Yeah, I believe 114 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 1: we've also talked about how the Neanderthal is u is 115 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 1: perhaps more ideally suited for this sort of cold weather environment. Yeah, 116 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 1: and the Neanderthal will will come up a bit in 117 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 1: this episode. But so Homo sapiens and Neanderthals both actually 118 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 1: eventually spread to this general region the Russian Plain. This 119 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 1: area in like southwest Russia and Ukraine uh and more 120 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 1: specifically this area I mentioned earlier, that's, you know, a 121 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 1: few hundred kilometers south of modern day Moscow along the 122 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:40,239 Speaker 1: banks of the Dawn. So the last glacial period would 123 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 1: have reached its most bitter cold in this place between 124 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 1: about twenty three thousand and eighteen thousand years ago. The 125 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 1: summers then would have been very short and very cool. 126 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:57,119 Speaker 1: Winters would be long and freezing, and at that time 127 00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 1: winter in this place would have averaged about negative twenty 128 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 1: degrees celsius or about negative four degrees fahrenheit, and that's 129 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 1: before wind chill is taken into account, and it would 130 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 1: have been windy. So if you try to picture it, 131 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 1: this region of the Russian plane at the time would 132 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 1: have been a freezing step landscape, just a bit south 133 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 1: of the ice sheets that reached down from the polar 134 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 1: regions and covered much of North America, Europe and Asia 135 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 1: at times. These glaciers, it's kind of hard to imagine this, 136 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 1: but they were sometimes between three and four kilometers thick, 137 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 1: or more than two miles. So just imagine a mountain 138 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 1: sheet of ice reaching down from the top of the 139 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:45,319 Speaker 1: world down into the continents into totally inhabited regions today, 140 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 1: and there were people who lived here at this time. 141 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:53,679 Speaker 1: The archaeological record indicates that most humans left this region 142 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 1: of southwest Russia during the harshest climate period of this 143 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:00,440 Speaker 1: Ice Age, you know, the like between twenty three thousand 144 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 1: and eighteen thousand years ago. And of course that's probably 145 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:05,440 Speaker 1: because first of all, it's so cold, but as a 146 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:08,319 Speaker 1: response to the cold, it's also because you know, most 147 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 1: food and fuel sources would have disappeared. Uh. In the 148 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 1: words of a study that we're going to cite in 149 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 1: a minute, this was quote a period of intense cold 150 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:22,319 Speaker 1: when similar latitudes in Europe were already abandoned, but here 151 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:27,320 Speaker 1: some people stayed and survived. I find myself wanting to 152 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 1: hear a Bruce Springsteen song about living in this environment, 153 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 1: you know, after after other folks have have gone on 154 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:37,840 Speaker 1: and left for warmer climates, and you're you're just digging 155 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 1: in and trying to make life work in this harsh environment. 156 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 1: The wind's healing in this cold town, and I can 157 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:48,360 Speaker 1: hear you, uh, And in fact it will it'll get 158 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 1: even more real relevant because this town also rips the 159 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 1: bones from your back. Um. So I'm trying to imagine 160 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: the people who lived in the shadow of this gigantic glacier. 161 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 1: And I'm rem ended, of course, of that great line 162 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:03,400 Speaker 1: from literature that we come back to on the show 163 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 1: from time to time. It's John Gardner's description of the 164 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 1: monster Grendel in his reimagining of the Beowulf legend, when 165 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 1: he calls him uh a shadow shooter, an earth rim roamer, 166 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 1: walker of the world's weird wall uh. And that's that's 167 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:23,199 Speaker 1: so lovely because it's it's first of all, just great imagery, 168 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:26,679 Speaker 1: but it also actually uses poetic devices that appear in 169 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 1: the original Beowulf epic. Uh, the devices of alliteration, which 170 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 1: is there in Beowulf, you know, repeating sounds at the 171 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:36,079 Speaker 1: beginning of words, and this weird way of forming metaphors 172 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:39,439 Speaker 1: known as kinning, where you you sort of like combine 173 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 1: words into into a new compound. One example, often in 174 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:47,840 Speaker 1: translation in Beowulf would be calling the seas the whale roads. 175 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 1: But for me, the the Beowulf comparison doesn't stop there, 176 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 1: because when I think of people trying to survive in 177 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:58,560 Speaker 1: this world, I get this kind of similar feeling of 178 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:01,680 Speaker 1: horror and mystery that invoked by the story of Beowulf. 179 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 1: More generally like this small band of humans gathering around 180 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 1: a fire set against the backdrop of this vast, frosty 181 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:13,960 Speaker 1: wilderness full of darkness and monsters. Uh. And in reality, 182 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 1: of course, this wouldn't have been monster monsters, but maybe 183 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 1: desperate predators and scavengers that are also trying to eke 184 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 1: out a survival alongside you at the edge of the world. 185 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 1: And this in these utterly unforgiving elements, I mean truly 186 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:31,680 Speaker 1: a time when you would you wouldn't have to create Grendel, 187 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:37,199 Speaker 1: because Grindel like organisms uh still roamed this region. I mean, 188 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:40,040 Speaker 1: of course, one of the most astonishing creatures to roam 189 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:42,720 Speaker 1: this region at the time would have been the great, 190 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 1: the powerful, the wooly mammoth. But also to compare it 191 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 1: to Beowulf again, uh, the wooly mammoth is interesting. But 192 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 1: because as great, as powerful, as terrifying an animal as 193 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:55,320 Speaker 1: this is, if you were to you know, come in 194 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:59,679 Speaker 1: come into combat with one, it ultimately did form the 195 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 1: prey a diet of many of the humans who or 196 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 1: maybe all of the humans who lived in this place 197 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 1: at the time. So you know, they became the bailwolf. 198 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 1: They went out to kill the monster. Yeah, I mean 199 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:14,200 Speaker 1: when you had the tools and the skills, uh to 200 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 1: actually bring these creatures down. They were such such such 201 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:21,600 Speaker 1: a wealth of resources exactly. And that's really getting us 202 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 1: to the heart of the issue here. So there's another 203 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:28,200 Speaker 1: way this historical situation gives these real life flashes of 204 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:31,080 Speaker 1: grin daly and horror. And this is the real reason 205 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:34,720 Speaker 1: I brought up these Ice Age hunter gatherers. Archaeologists have 206 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:39,960 Speaker 1: uncovered evidence in about seventy different places so far that 207 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 1: the prehistoric peoples of this region of Ice Age Russia 208 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:48,800 Speaker 1: and Ukraine and the Russian Plane, they built buildings out 209 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:55,200 Speaker 1: of bones, especially out of the skulls, skeletons, and tusks 210 00:12:55,280 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 1: of the wooly mammoth. Now, most often the structures take 211 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:05,080 Speaker 1: the form of large bone circles, and if you're trying 212 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 1: to picture this, you can look it up with some 213 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:09,440 Speaker 1: terms I'll give you in a minute. Um. But it's 214 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:14,239 Speaker 1: as if the builders were stacking up ring shaped walls 215 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:19,439 Speaker 1: around a central chamber, except the walls are made out 216 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:24,559 Speaker 1: of wooly mammoth skeletons. There are no detectable roofs left 217 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:26,720 Speaker 1: or you know that would cover up these walls if 218 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:30,439 Speaker 1: there were ever any roofs. There are just the circular 219 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:35,560 Speaker 1: or oval shaped walls of bone. Dating methods reveal that 220 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 1: humans were building these bone rings maybe from like twenty 221 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 1: five thousand years ago up until about twelve thousand years 222 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:45,960 Speaker 1: ago in the region. And uh and the wooly mammoth 223 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 1: went extinct in this region about ten thousand years ago, 224 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:50,960 Speaker 1: so the numbers could have been dwindling at the time 225 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 1: that these buildings went out of fashion. And the amazing 226 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:58,560 Speaker 1: mystery is that so these ancient hunter gatherer humans were 227 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:03,080 Speaker 1: building these ring shaped structures out of mammoth bones. And 228 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 1: archaeologists are not in agreement about what these bones circles 229 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 1: were for. Yeah, because if you try and picture one 230 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:12,760 Speaker 1: in your mind, I mean, for for me anyway, it 231 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:16,560 Speaker 1: sounds it sounds regal, it sounds a bit sacred, right, 232 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:18,520 Speaker 1: I mean, it's made from the bones of this uh, 233 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 1: this this organism that you've grown to depend on. But 234 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 1: but then again, you could also wonder is it just 235 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:26,920 Speaker 1: is it just a material resources issue? Is it like 236 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 1: if I started building uh, like like little houses and 237 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 1: forts out of the leftover Amazon boxes that I have 238 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 1: accumulating in my house. Well, I mean, I think you 239 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 1: might have more options overall than we're available to the 240 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 1: people of the Russian Plane at this time. But I 241 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 1: think you are absolutely on the right track there, Robert, 242 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 1: I mean, as as best we can guess. So maybe 243 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:50,320 Speaker 1: we should take a break and then when we come back, 244 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 1: we can talk about a new study just from the 245 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 1: past month about the oldest and largest of these structures 246 00:14:56,760 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 1: built by modern humans. Alright, we're back, Okay, So we've 247 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 1: been talking about the idea that all throughout this place 248 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 1: known as the Russian Plain, in this area of eastern Europe, 249 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 1: in like southwest Russia and Ukraine, there are at least 250 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 1: like seventy locations that archaeologists have found where Ice Age 251 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 1: hunter gatherers built buildings out of bones. Now, I want 252 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 1: to be fair, we called this episode the Bone Palace. 253 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 1: These are not gigantic, elaborate buildings, they're not castles. But 254 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 1: it is pretty amazing to see people, especially people who 255 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 1: we did not believe had any kind of settled existence, uh, 256 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 1: building structures out of wooly mammoth bones. Yeah, I mean, 257 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 1: for the time period, I think this is like a cathedral. 258 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, in terms of like what else 259 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 1: could we possibly compare it to that that humans, especially 260 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:55,760 Speaker 1: in that region were constructing. Uh, that we're building in 261 00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 1: one place, Yeah, exactly. Um So I want to go 262 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 1: back to a more specific place within this region I 263 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 1: mentioned it earlier on. Remember that specific place about five 264 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 1: hundred kilometers south of Moscow, near the modern day city 265 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 1: of Voronesh. That this site is known to archaeologists as 266 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 1: Kostenky eleven. And since the mid twentieth century, archaeologists have 267 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 1: known about a couple of smaller structures built out of 268 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:24,880 Speaker 1: mammoth bones at this location. But just a few years back, 269 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 1: around fourteen, I've seen both years sited, excavation began on 270 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 1: a newly discovered bone circle there. And this new bone 271 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 1: circle at Costinky eleven dates back more than twenty thousand years. 272 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:41,240 Speaker 1: Radio carbon dating of some of the elements here it 273 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 1: pushes its construction possibly back to about twenty five thousand 274 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 1: years before the present. Uh So, twenty five thousand years 275 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 1: is the number that a lot of news reports have cited. 276 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 1: This bone circle is more than twelve point five meters 277 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 1: in diameter, which is about forty one ft wide. Uh, 278 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 1: and in the present structure when it was found, was 279 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 1: buried about a foot beneath the surface before being unearthed. 280 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:08,120 Speaker 1: But the researchers think that this ring wall of bones 281 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 1: was probably about twenty inches or about fifty centimeters high 282 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 1: before it collapsed many thousands of years ago, so the 283 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 1: bone wall would have come up, you know, more than 284 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:19,760 Speaker 1: a foot and a half off the ground or so. 285 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:23,480 Speaker 1: Now here's where things start getting really weird. How many 286 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 1: mammoths do you think went into the construction of this building? 287 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:29,440 Speaker 1: You might think, oh, well, you know, a mammoth's big. 288 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:31,960 Speaker 1: You could probably build a building with one or two 289 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 1: mammoth's right, Well, I mean it is a big, big animal. 290 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 1: But then when then you start thinking about, okay, which 291 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:41,640 Speaker 1: of the bones are actually useful? Uh? You know, which 292 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:44,359 Speaker 1: ones are going to be actually large enough or long 293 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:46,960 Speaker 1: enough to be supportive? Like it's still the creature is 294 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 1: only going to have so many ribs, right or which 295 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 1: bones have you not used for other purposes? Another possibility? 296 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 1: That's right, because this is going to be a very 297 00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:59,359 Speaker 1: utilitarian culture, right, You're gonna have to if that bone 298 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:03,359 Speaker 1: is better used for scraping hides or you know, aiding 299 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 1: in the the actual mission of acquiring and processing other 300 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:11,160 Speaker 1: mammoths for your survival. Uh it doesn't make as much 301 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 1: sense at least without like really significant religious uh um 302 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 1: underpinnings to use it in the construction of this mysterious structure. 303 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 1: Or I mean so well, actually, I'm not gonna spoil it. 304 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:27,439 Speaker 1: There's another possible use for the bones here that that 305 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:28,959 Speaker 1: I want to get to in just a little bit. 306 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:32,360 Speaker 1: I'll leave that a tantalizing mystery for now. But so, 307 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:35,400 Speaker 1: how many wooly mammoths here? This structure was built out 308 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 1: of the bones of more than sixty wooly mammoths, and 309 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:41,719 Speaker 1: this is indicated by the by the fact that there 310 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:46,640 Speaker 1: were sixty four individual mammoth skulls used in construction, as 311 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:51,879 Speaker 1: well as many other types of bones, including lower jaws, longbones, vertebrae, 312 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:54,840 Speaker 1: and tusks. Uh. And while mammoth bones made up the 313 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 1: bulk of the building materials, there were also a small 314 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 1: number of bones from reindeer, horses, as bears and foxes 315 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:04,520 Speaker 1: like the red fox and the Arctic fox. Uh. And 316 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 1: the circle today it sits on an east facing slope, 317 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 1: sort of an incline, a slight incline of about six degrees, 318 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 1: and curiously, the bones make up a continuous wall with 319 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 1: no apparent door or entry way. Well, that that makes 320 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 1: me think that it's either it's either less of a 321 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:26,960 Speaker 1: building and more of just a sheer structure, almost like 322 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:30,639 Speaker 1: a piece of public art, or it's it's something that 323 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 1: you're not supposed to come out of. And in that case, 324 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 1: it makes me think it might be a tomb. Well, 325 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:37,160 Speaker 1: we find no evidence that it's a human tomb because 326 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:39,960 Speaker 1: there are no human remains inside it. So so we 327 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 1: could mark that one off, though that might not be 328 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:45,960 Speaker 1: totally off the mark. In terms of the possibilities for 329 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 1: ritual significance, we we don't know, and but we'll discuss 330 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:52,879 Speaker 1: those possibilities as we go on. Um So, this find 331 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:56,440 Speaker 1: was described in a paper published in the journal Antiquity. 332 00:19:56,520 --> 00:20:00,320 Speaker 1: It was out just this past month by Alexander J. E. Friar, 333 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:05,639 Speaker 1: David G. Barrasford Jones, Alexander E. Doodon, E. Katerina M. 334 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:09,919 Speaker 1: Kona Cova, John F. Hoffeker, and Clive Gamble, and it 335 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 1: was called the Chronology and Function of a new circular 336 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:16,560 Speaker 1: mammoth bone structure at Kostenky eleven and so this new 337 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:18,919 Speaker 1: circle they found, the one we've been talking about, is 338 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:22,159 Speaker 1: now believed to be both the oldest and the largest 339 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:26,440 Speaker 1: bone structure yet discovered that was built by Homo sapiens. 340 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:29,400 Speaker 1: It's at least a thousand years older than the other 341 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 1: mammoth bone structures of Eastern Europe. Uh. And as a 342 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 1: side note, when I had to qualify built by Homo sapiens, 343 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:38,200 Speaker 1: that's because I was actually reading reports of a single 344 00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 1: possibly older bone structure, uh maybe more than forty thousand 345 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:45,920 Speaker 1: years old at a site called Malativa one in Ukraine. 346 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:48,159 Speaker 1: But this one is believed to have been built by 347 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 1: Neanderthals and not Homo sapiens, which either way is very interesting. 348 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 1: Interesting to see Homo sapiens and Neanderthals participating in extremely 349 00:20:56,400 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 1: similar cultures of proto construction out of bones, like before 350 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:05,880 Speaker 1: long before a settled agricultural life evolved, which is when 351 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 1: we normally think of people, you know, building buildings and 352 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 1: stuff like that. So it makes me wonder where the 353 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:16,760 Speaker 1: Homo sapiens copying the Neanderthals? Yeah yeah, or or are 354 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:21,359 Speaker 1: we just talking about two intelligent species, uh coming to 355 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 1: the same conclusions based on the materials available, Yeah, and 356 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 1: that that could be something there too, because we might 357 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:29,720 Speaker 1: not be when we're trying to understand what the heck 358 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:31,879 Speaker 1: was going on here, Why would you build a little 359 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:35,120 Speaker 1: the circular buildings out of bones. Maybe we're just not 360 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 1: imagining how what their material limitations in life were. So 361 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:43,240 Speaker 1: the excavation of this new site, it took about three years. 362 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:48,160 Speaker 1: It included experts from University of Exeter, from Cambridge, from 363 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:52,439 Speaker 1: the Kostinky State Museum Preserve, and from the University of 364 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,679 Speaker 1: Colorado Boulder in the University of Southampton. And it was 365 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 1: done using a technique called flotation, and that's where you 366 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 1: apply water to dig site in order to kind of 367 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:07,440 Speaker 1: sieve out archaeologically significant material to remove it from the sediment. So, 368 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:09,359 Speaker 1: as we go on to discuss a little bit more 369 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:11,600 Speaker 1: about this finding and what makes it so interesting, I 370 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:14,119 Speaker 1: want to keep a couple of main questions in mind. 371 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 1: First of all, again, remember the utterly harsh, you know, 372 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:22,640 Speaker 1: reality of of surviving in this place during the last 373 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:26,239 Speaker 1: glacial maximum, especially the worst part of it from like 374 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:28,600 Speaker 1: you know, twenty three thousand years ago or so to 375 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:31,199 Speaker 1: about eighteen thousand years ago. Uh, you know, would have 376 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:34,960 Speaker 1: been so cold and so unforgiving and resources would have 377 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:38,200 Speaker 1: been pretty scarce. Why would people come to or stay 378 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 1: in this place at all? And then yeah, like if 379 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:43,840 Speaker 1: it's a place of seasonal return, then like it would 380 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 1: there would have to be some some advantage there. Like 381 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:49,520 Speaker 1: he's often been brought up before that the nomadic people's 382 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:52,359 Speaker 1: would have regularly returned to, say a hot spring at 383 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 1: geothermal spring, which has an obvious advantage for your survival. 384 00:22:57,240 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 1: But in this case, we can we find anything that 385 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 1: obvious us Yeah, and then the other thing, of course, 386 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:05,919 Speaker 1: would be Okay, we know people were coming here, what 387 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 1: on earth was this little bone palace for? Why would 388 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:12,639 Speaker 1: you go to the trouble of making this thing? Uh? So, 389 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,080 Speaker 1: first I want to focus on what the research on 390 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:18,000 Speaker 1: this this new bone circle found, and then we can 391 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 1: move to the what was it for? Question? Okay, So 392 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:23,119 Speaker 1: first of all, what did the research find? So usually 393 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:26,399 Speaker 1: these mammoth bone buildings made by the Stone Age humans 394 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:29,119 Speaker 1: are surrounded by a number of big pits, and this 395 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:32,399 Speaker 1: new find at Kostinky eleven is no exception. Um, there 396 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 1: were several large pits around it, but again we don't 397 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:39,119 Speaker 1: know what these pits were for. It could be storage, 398 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 1: it could be places to dumperberry trash. It could be 399 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,640 Speaker 1: a type of quarry that maybe mud or other building 400 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:48,119 Speaker 1: material was sourced from. I read about the possibility. We 401 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:51,800 Speaker 1: don't know, but maybe mud was used to patch the 402 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:56,399 Speaker 1: places in between the bones in the structure. Possibly, we 403 00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:01,200 Speaker 1: don't know. Um that would make sense. Next thing, mammoth 404 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:04,880 Speaker 1: meat was cooked here. That's not very surprising, but okay, yeah, 405 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 1: we have some evidence that they were cooking mammoth at 406 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:10,680 Speaker 1: this bone structure. Here, things start getting weird. They also 407 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 1: found burned mammoth bones, and you might think, well, okay, 408 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,439 Speaker 1: you know, that's that's evidence of cooking. But no, we 409 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:22,200 Speaker 1: don't mean burned like that. These burned mammoth bones were 410 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:27,440 Speaker 1: actually used as fuel for the fire itself, and that 411 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:29,879 Speaker 1: this is not the only site like this by any means. 412 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 1: Evidence of this is found at other Paleolithic bone ring 413 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 1: sites throughout Eastern Europe. The people here burned bones to 414 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 1: have fire, and you absolutely can do that. You can 415 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:45,320 Speaker 1: burn mammoth bones as fuel due to pockets of fat 416 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:48,760 Speaker 1: inside the bones that render and catch flame as the 417 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 1: bone heats up. You know, I'd never thought of that. 418 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,640 Speaker 1: I mean, obviously, the mammoth is going to produce dung, 419 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,960 Speaker 1: which you know, once collected, could be used as fuel 420 00:24:58,000 --> 00:24:59,920 Speaker 1: for five But I didn't even think about their bones 421 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:02,680 Speaker 1: being used as fuel. Now, one thing we should definitely 422 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:06,760 Speaker 1: acknowledge here is that bones burn differently than wood does. 423 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,959 Speaker 1: There's a different quality to the fire. The bones are 424 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:13,880 Speaker 1: are greasy, and the fire they produce would be sort 425 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,760 Speaker 1: of inconsistent and it would generally put out more light 426 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,680 Speaker 1: and less heat than a wood fire. Uh. One of 427 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 1: the authors on this paper, David Barretsford Jones, who's an 428 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:28,879 Speaker 1: environmental archaeologist at the University of Cambridge, was speaking to 429 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:30,399 Speaker 1: I think it was the New York Times, it was 430 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:34,040 Speaker 1: speaking to some publication. He said that a fire that 431 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:37,520 Speaker 1: was powered by the fuel of mammoth bones quote, won't 432 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:40,479 Speaker 1: produce a nice good fire for roasting your mammoth meat on. 433 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 1: So the bone based fire is not going to be 434 00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,120 Speaker 1: very good for cooking more light than and less heat. 435 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:48,840 Speaker 1: So what was the fire for, Well, we can come 436 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,920 Speaker 1: back to that later. Now. They also found about four 437 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,919 Speaker 1: hundred pieces of charcoal from wood fires, and this was 438 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,679 Speaker 1: charcoal from the would have conifer trees like spruce and 439 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:03,160 Speaker 1: shine and larch. And here's another one where you might 440 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,960 Speaker 1: at first say, huh, well, that doesn't seem very unusual, 441 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:10,400 Speaker 1: But this actually is very interesting and even maybe revolutionary 442 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 1: here because the previous widely held assumption was that this 443 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:18,359 Speaker 1: place and time would have been an utterly barren, nearly 444 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:23,359 Speaker 1: completely treeless step and consequently it was thought that the 445 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 1: burning of bones by the humans of this area was 446 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:30,119 Speaker 1: out of total necessity. There was no wood to burn 447 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,479 Speaker 1: at all, so they had to burn bones as the 448 00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:36,960 Speaker 1: only possible fuel. But the charcoal at this new side 449 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,840 Speaker 1: at Kostinky eleven shows would was burned, meaning there were 450 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,880 Speaker 1: at least some trees. Now this does not at all 451 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,960 Speaker 1: mean you should imagine the landscape at this time full 452 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:51,439 Speaker 1: of thriving forests, uh, The authors suggest, maybe more like 453 00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:54,639 Speaker 1: it would be a place where, uh, there are a 454 00:26:54,800 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 1: few trees here and there, barely surviving against the ice. Uh. 455 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 1: Speaking to the to the newspaper Herrets, the lead author, 456 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 1: Alexander Pryor said, quote, the growth ring widths in the 457 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:11,959 Speaker 1: charcoal we recovered are mostly very narrow, suggesting that trees 458 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:15,200 Speaker 1: were clinging on at the edge of their tolerance limits. 459 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:19,440 Speaker 1: Summers would have been cool and relatively short, while winters 460 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:23,880 Speaker 1: were long and bitterly cold. The climate was also very arid, 461 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,600 Speaker 1: so trees would have clung on in sheltered parts of 462 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:30,399 Speaker 1: the landscape, perhaps in river valleys, away from the wind 463 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:34,479 Speaker 1: and where moisture was available. Huh. And of course in 464 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,320 Speaker 1: all of this we have to we have to weigh 465 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,320 Speaker 1: the fact that if you were to come across some 466 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 1: some trees, some would um there would be other potential 467 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,760 Speaker 1: uses for it that would compete with your you know, 468 00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:48,520 Speaker 1: necessity to burn it. I don't know in the case 469 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,880 Speaker 1: that these might be uh, some very pitiful trees, perhaps 470 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:55,200 Speaker 1: they really didn't have any other purpose but to be burned. 471 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,760 Speaker 1: But again, coming down to just sort of the utalitarian 472 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:03,000 Speaker 1: reality their harsh lives, you could well imagine them coming 473 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:05,719 Speaker 1: across a small tree and realizing, you know, this, this 474 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:09,000 Speaker 1: would make a much better spear or or some other 475 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 1: kind of tool as opposed to being just thrown into 476 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 1: the fire. But then again, the fire is survival as well. 477 00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:16,359 Speaker 1: So I don't know, it sounds like it becomes kind 478 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,920 Speaker 1: of a difficult balancing acted to figure out exactly how 479 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,720 Speaker 1: your fuel economy is going to work. Oh, I think 480 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:25,359 Speaker 1: there is a lot to indicate actually that when they 481 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,199 Speaker 1: make you know the these these hunter gatherers make the 482 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 1: utilitarian calculus. They very much do probably prioritize the burning 483 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:37,320 Speaker 1: of wood over the use of wood for tools, at 484 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,280 Speaker 1: least in many cases. Um because again, you know, the 485 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,840 Speaker 1: wood really creates a high quality fire, and the mammoth bones, 486 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:45,640 Speaker 1: you can get fire out of them, but it's not 487 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 1: a good fire. It's not like a wood fire. Right. 488 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 1: But then those mammoths, you're not just giving those bones away. 489 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 1: You gotta get them yourselves, and you're gonna need tools 490 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 1: to do it. That's true. So one other interesting thing 491 00:28:57,720 --> 00:28:59,960 Speaker 1: about the findings about you know that they're actually work. 492 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,160 Speaker 1: Are some trees here at the time Against previous assumptions. 493 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:06,520 Speaker 1: The fact that there was some small number of scrawny 494 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 1: trees surviving here could be the very reason that this 495 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:15,080 Speaker 1: place remained inhabited when other sites at the same latitude 496 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,960 Speaker 1: were abandoned by humans during the Ice Age. Remember that 497 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 1: question we're asking, like, why would people be here at all? 498 00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 1: To quote from the study quote, the presence of conifer 499 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:28,960 Speaker 1: trees near Kostinky, perhaps located in low lying, moist and 500 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:32,880 Speaker 1: sheltered areas in the ravines near to the site, would 501 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,320 Speaker 1: have been an important resource that attracted hunter gatherers to 502 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:40,120 Speaker 1: the area during the glacial period. So it's entirely possible 503 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 1: that this latitude of northerly wasteland is is has mostly 504 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:48,600 Speaker 1: just been completely abandoned by humans. But here's a place 505 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:52,080 Speaker 1: where the human hunter gatherers can get a foothold this 506 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:55,480 Speaker 1: far north because there are a few trees that they 507 00:29:55,480 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 1: can harvest and make fires with. I mean, I remember fire, 508 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,200 Speaker 1: it's our secret weapon. It's like the thing that that is. 509 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:06,239 Speaker 1: It changes the game in terms of what types of 510 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:09,560 Speaker 1: climates are habitable and what types of of prey we 511 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:11,960 Speaker 1: can hunt and stuff like that. Yeah, we've discussed that 512 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:13,840 Speaker 1: in the on the show in the past when we 513 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:16,840 Speaker 1: talked about a world before fire, and then on Invention 514 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:21,320 Speaker 1: we discussed fire technologies and just how truly game changing 515 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:23,720 Speaker 1: they were. Now a couple of other findings about it 516 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:25,880 Speaker 1: before we moved to the what was this for question? 517 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,400 Speaker 1: Along the same lines as the charcoal, they found a 518 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:34,840 Speaker 1: few vegetables. Interesting. Good for them. Yeah, because we might 519 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:39,000 Speaker 1: have assumed that mammoth hunters roaming the furthest reaches of 520 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:43,120 Speaker 1: habitable land during the last glacial maximum, we're pretty much 521 00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:46,480 Speaker 1: limited to a diet of mammoth meat. But there are 522 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 1: remains of plant based foods at this new bone circle. 523 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:54,360 Speaker 1: And these plant based foods include plant matter associated with 524 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:58,240 Speaker 1: edible roots and tubers, which which I've seen compared to 525 00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:03,040 Speaker 1: modern crops like parsona, carrots, and potatoes. So along with 526 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,480 Speaker 1: your mammoth meat, maybe you're getting a few carrots in there, 527 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,320 Speaker 1: maybe you're having some mashed taters or something, probably not 528 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 1: mashed taters, at least some kind of tator thing. Well, 529 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:13,800 Speaker 1: this is excellent. I'm gonna pass this on to our 530 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:18,360 Speaker 1: new potential sponsors, Mammoth Meals. What they're offering is a 531 00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 1: is an authentic ice age diet of cloned that grown 532 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 1: Willie mammoth meat, uh thrown in there with some parsnips, 533 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:30,840 Speaker 1: carrots and a few you know, random scavenge tubers and 534 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:32,880 Speaker 1: you just you you heat those up in your house. 535 00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:36,320 Speaker 1: You don't have to cook them on mammoth bones, but 536 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:39,400 Speaker 1: it is recommended if you want the just the proper 537 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,320 Speaker 1: uh you know, the proper texture and the proper uh 538 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:44,960 Speaker 1: you know, flavoring to the meat, use our promo code 539 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:48,840 Speaker 1: Bone Palace. Uh. Yeah. And I want to be clear 540 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:52,880 Speaker 1: just so I'm not confusing anybody. Uh the parsnips, carrots 541 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,440 Speaker 1: and potatoes thing, that's like a point of comparison of 542 00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:57,760 Speaker 1: what these roots would be like. Like, we know that 543 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,040 Speaker 1: potatoes were not grown in this place at this time, 544 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 1: so you know, like they wouldn't have been actually potatoes, 545 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 1: but similar types of foods, right, I mean if they 546 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:09,720 Speaker 1: had anything like a carrot. I've often seen it pointed 547 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,240 Speaker 1: out that you know, in in in this age and 548 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,160 Speaker 1: other ages of the human gathering, like a carrot would 549 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:18,920 Speaker 1: be the equivalent of us finding like a cheesecake, you know, 550 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,560 Speaker 1: or or or a giant bag of skittles. Yeah, just 551 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:24,800 Speaker 1: like the maximum sweet Next time you're eating a carrot, 552 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:27,480 Speaker 1: think about that. Think about what it would be to 553 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:31,240 Speaker 1: live in a world where this was maximum sweetness. Are 554 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:33,600 Speaker 1: in our mouth is just ruined. Now we eat a 555 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:37,200 Speaker 1: carrot and it's like, oh yeah, I mean our mouths 556 00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,280 Speaker 1: are ruined on more than one count because of this, uh, 557 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 1: this unbalanced sugar economy. Yes, yeah um. But also so 558 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:47,680 Speaker 1: in addition to the signs of there being some kind 559 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,360 Speaker 1: of roots and tuber based foods, there were also remains 560 00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:53,240 Speaker 1: of charred seeds, though it's not clear if these seeds 561 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:57,560 Speaker 1: were brought here by humans. Um One more thing this 562 00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:01,280 Speaker 1: ties into a previous episode. There were some light signs 563 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 1: of napping, not napping like sleeping, but napping with a 564 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:07,360 Speaker 1: k This is what we talked about with Dietrich Stout 565 00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 1: on our episode about stone age technology. It is a 566 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:16,640 Speaker 1: method of constructing stone tools by striking stones together to 567 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:20,440 Speaker 1: shear a target stone off and form a sharp edge. 568 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:24,200 Speaker 1: And the evidence included here would be like stone flakes 569 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,920 Speaker 1: and chips that would be a byproduct of the manufacture 570 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:29,760 Speaker 1: of stone tools. We find stuff like this at the 571 00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:32,800 Speaker 1: places where stone age people lived. They were they were 572 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:36,280 Speaker 1: manufacturing tools a lot, and they needed these tools to survive, 573 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:39,720 Speaker 1: so you'd find all these signs the waste products of 574 00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:44,360 Speaker 1: the the the you know, sharp flake manufacturer process. But 575 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:47,400 Speaker 1: then again, people were building stone tools here, but it 576 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:51,160 Speaker 1: looks like there was also much less manufacture of stone 577 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:54,560 Speaker 1: tools here then there would usually be at at other 578 00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:57,960 Speaker 1: sites where people lived more or less permanently during this period. 579 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:01,520 Speaker 1: This has been taken as evidence this site was not 580 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:05,440 Speaker 1: occupied for very long, or maybe it was only occupied 581 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:09,240 Speaker 1: it very contained times throughout the year, because if people 582 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:11,400 Speaker 1: had been living here on a more permanent basis, you 583 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:15,040 Speaker 1: would expect to find way more signs of them making tools. 584 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:17,160 Speaker 1: So we can basically see this is the kind of 585 00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:19,680 Speaker 1: like stonework detry, this that would have been left in 586 00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:22,880 Speaker 1: the wake of of these people. And uh, and therefore 587 00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:24,800 Speaker 1: it can indicate just how long they were staying in 588 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,360 Speaker 1: the area. All right, let's take one more break, but 589 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:29,719 Speaker 1: when we come back, we will continue to discuss the 590 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:36,760 Speaker 1: mystery of this ice age bone palace. Thank thank alright, 591 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:40,239 Speaker 1: we're back. Alright, So we're asking the question what was 592 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:44,160 Speaker 1: this ice age bone palace for? Remember, it's the circle 593 00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:47,200 Speaker 1: of bones. It's more than forty ft in diameter. It 594 00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:49,200 Speaker 1: would have been, you know, at least like one and 595 00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:51,680 Speaker 1: a half feet tall off the ground at the time 596 00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:54,319 Speaker 1: it was built. Made entirely out of mammoth bones, made 597 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,200 Speaker 1: out of more than sixty mammoth bones. We should stop 598 00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:01,680 Speaker 1: to stress again how weird this is. Why would hunter 599 00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:06,320 Speaker 1: gatherers living in the northernmost habitable reaches of eastern Europe 600 00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:10,200 Speaker 1: during the Pleistocene build a structure like this or you know, 601 00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 1: not just this structure, build these many structures like this. Uh. 602 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:17,480 Speaker 1: First of all, evidence tells us that they usually lived 603 00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:22,120 Speaker 1: nomadic lifestyles, they would travel to follow available food resources 604 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:25,640 Speaker 1: like herds of prey animals, or follow other resources. They 605 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:30,200 Speaker 1: didn't generally build permanent structures to live in. So if 606 00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:32,720 Speaker 1: you're just assuming, well, this is probably some kind of house, 607 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:35,640 Speaker 1: I mean, that is possible, and we'll discuss that possibility. 608 00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:39,160 Speaker 1: But that from first glance, that is kind of counterintuitive, 609 00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:42,040 Speaker 1: right because you you wouldn't be living here year round. 610 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:45,520 Speaker 1: This would be a place of seasonal return at best. 611 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:49,440 Speaker 1: But beyond that, think about the quality and quantity of 612 00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:53,400 Speaker 1: effort required to build a structure like this. The bones 613 00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:57,120 Speaker 1: in this building came from again more than sixty different mammoths. 614 00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:00,000 Speaker 1: Think about how this literally had to be put together. 615 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:04,920 Speaker 1: Other mammoth bones are huge. They are extremely heavy, especially 616 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:08,000 Speaker 1: when they're fresh, right like when they're you know, they 617 00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:10,279 Speaker 1: still got all the moisture and fat in them before 618 00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:13,440 Speaker 1: they decay and become more porous. These bones would have 619 00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:17,439 Speaker 1: been like heavy stones to move around. The people either 620 00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:22,520 Speaker 1: had to scavenge these bones from dead mammoths that they found, 621 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:26,440 Speaker 1: or they would have to kill the mammoths themselves, and 622 00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:28,560 Speaker 1: then they would have to carry them back to this 623 00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:33,160 Speaker 1: prehistoric construction site. So to quote the lead author, Alexander Pryor, 624 00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:36,200 Speaker 1: and if I didn't mention this earlier, he's an archaeologist 625 00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:39,040 Speaker 1: at the University of Exeter in England. He was speaking 626 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:41,880 Speaker 1: to Nicholas St. Fleur of The New York Times. Quote. 627 00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:45,799 Speaker 1: The sheer number of bones that are Paleolithic ancestors had 628 00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:49,239 Speaker 1: sourced from somewhere and brought to this particular location to 629 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:54,000 Speaker 1: build this monument is really quite staggering. It does boggle 630 00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:57,839 Speaker 1: the mind. I've seen some articles sort of in a 631 00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:01,319 Speaker 1: cheeky way, calling this site bone hinge, and I think 632 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:04,319 Speaker 1: the comparison it has a few merits. Right, this would 633 00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:09,440 Speaker 1: be a massive project of sourcing tons of dead mammoths 634 00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:13,480 Speaker 1: and getting their crushingly heavy remains to this very spot. 635 00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:16,960 Speaker 1: Plus one imagines. Okay, first of all, certainly for their 636 00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:20,839 Speaker 1: mammoth kills, they are processing the carcass in order to 637 00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,440 Speaker 1: get the meat, you know, other materials from the body 638 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:28,839 Speaker 1: that it might be using for various uh um, you know, tools, clothing, etcetera. 639 00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,200 Speaker 1: But you're probably gonna have to do additional processing of 640 00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:35,640 Speaker 1: the bones. I mean, unless you're just putting uh you know, meaty, 641 00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:39,279 Speaker 1: half rotten, uh you know, flesh clad bones up there 642 00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:41,800 Speaker 1: on the structure. I'm imagining they're they're going to further 643 00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:45,200 Speaker 1: um uh, you know, put the bones in order before 644 00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:50,760 Speaker 1: batting them to the construction. So just a lot of work, Robert, 645 00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:54,399 Speaker 1: You've got some surprises coming to you before we move 646 00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:58,440 Speaker 1: Oh boy, this is gonna be fun before we move on. 647 00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:00,879 Speaker 1: I just realized came into my head. Did you watch 648 00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:03,640 Speaker 1: I think you should leave the Tim Robinson Show? Yes? 649 00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:06,239 Speaker 1: I did. Could you stop while we were preparing for 650 00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:09,400 Speaker 1: this episode with singing the bones are their houses and 651 00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:14,040 Speaker 1: so are the worms? I forgot about that one. Oh man, 652 00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:16,960 Speaker 1: it's one of the best. We sing that song a 653 00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:19,360 Speaker 1: lot in our house. I would sing it here, but 654 00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:21,000 Speaker 1: I don't know if that's the kind of thing that 655 00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:24,520 Speaker 1: you get bone cheese over. I don't know. That's a 656 00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:28,799 Speaker 1: that's a very very weird and entertaining show. I really 657 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,160 Speaker 1: like the one about the two plumbers. Oh I like 658 00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:33,880 Speaker 1: that too. Yeah, you're not part of the turbo team 659 00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:37,680 Speaker 1: and okay, okay. So it's coming back to the question 660 00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:40,400 Speaker 1: of like archaeologists now trying to figure out what the 661 00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:43,520 Speaker 1: heck was were these bone circles for, especially this big one. 662 00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:46,480 Speaker 1: Um So, the most obvious answer one that we already 663 00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:48,880 Speaker 1: hinted at is well, maybe it's a dwelling. This is 664 00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:52,680 Speaker 1: this is a bone house with two cats in the yard, etcetera. 665 00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:56,759 Speaker 1: This one, it's difficult to totally rule it out, and 666 00:38:56,880 --> 00:39:01,040 Speaker 1: many other smaller bone circles found throughout Estern Europe have 667 00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:04,720 Speaker 1: been assumed to be shelters or dwellings of some kind 668 00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:08,240 Speaker 1: for humans. I was reading an article about the study 669 00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:11,200 Speaker 1: in Harets and it pointed out that of the about 670 00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:14,919 Speaker 1: seventy mammoth bone structures found in Eastern Europe, some are 671 00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:17,839 Speaker 1: all on their own, but others are grouped in arrangements 672 00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,480 Speaker 1: of up to like six in the same place. Remember, 673 00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:22,480 Speaker 1: at this site there were two other ones already known 674 00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:25,440 Speaker 1: about smaller ones, so this would be three and roughly 675 00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:28,879 Speaker 1: the same area. And this suggests maybe these are some 676 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:32,759 Speaker 1: kind of proto village, right uh that we don't know 677 00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:34,799 Speaker 1: yet if they were occupied at the same time as 678 00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:37,600 Speaker 1: each other, but usually they were close to rivers, which 679 00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:40,759 Speaker 1: would make sense for an actual settlement. So it's hard 680 00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:43,680 Speaker 1: to completely rule out the possibility that this was some 681 00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:47,600 Speaker 1: type of shelter structure for humans to get inside and 682 00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:51,120 Speaker 1: live in. But prior the lead author on the study, 683 00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:53,680 Speaker 1: we've been talking about, and the other authors really do 684 00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:56,360 Speaker 1: not seem to think that this place was a dwelling, 685 00:39:56,760 --> 00:40:00,160 Speaker 1: certainly not a permanent dwelling, maybe a seasonal dwelling of 686 00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:02,640 Speaker 1: some kind. But there are there are a few reasons 687 00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:05,160 Speaker 1: that they think argue against the idea that this was 688 00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:08,240 Speaker 1: a house for people to live in. So, first of all, 689 00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:11,759 Speaker 1: Prior just argues that it's hard to imagine how an 690 00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:15,840 Speaker 1: area the size of this circle the most recent find 691 00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:19,359 Speaker 1: would have been roofed. Think about it. This is a 692 00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:24,440 Speaker 1: forty one ft wide circular wall, not very tall, made 693 00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:28,680 Speaker 1: out of bones, with no signs of interior support structures. 694 00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:31,279 Speaker 1: What would the roof be made out of? And how 695 00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:33,680 Speaker 1: would it stay up? And why is there no sign 696 00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:36,360 Speaker 1: of any roofing left? Now, Yeah, that is a great 697 00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:39,440 Speaker 1: question that I didn't I didn't initially think to ask 698 00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:41,880 Speaker 1: if if it's going to be a proper dwelling, it 699 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,440 Speaker 1: has to have a roof and it's and what are 700 00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:46,960 Speaker 1: you gonna make it out of? I mean, it can't 701 00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:50,160 Speaker 1: really depend on these heavy bones so much. Uh you know, 702 00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:54,640 Speaker 1: maybe hide comes to mind. Uh, yeah, that would materials, 703 00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:56,919 Speaker 1: but we already touched on how scarce those were likely 704 00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:59,840 Speaker 1: to be Yeah, I mean, hides were the thing that 705 00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:01,640 Speaker 1: kind of coming to my mind. But still it would 706 00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:04,600 Speaker 1: be hard to imagine exactly how that worked on a 707 00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:08,680 Speaker 1: structure this big, like uh, how the remains lie today. 708 00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:11,480 Speaker 1: I've seen this pointed out. It doesn't necessarily tell us 709 00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:14,120 Speaker 1: what they looked like when they were in use, because 710 00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:17,480 Speaker 1: it's possible that maybe these structures were more sort of 711 00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:21,360 Speaker 1: conical with spaces between the bones patched in with mud 712 00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:25,000 Speaker 1: um and you know, perhaps they were somehow kind of 713 00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:28,799 Speaker 1: like tps maybe like they could have had hides up 714 00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:31,719 Speaker 1: on the top somehow, but we we just don't know. 715 00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:35,040 Speaker 1: But also here's another reason to think that it's kind 716 00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:38,000 Speaker 1: of unlikely that this was a dwelling, uh, this one 717 00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:41,480 Speaker 1: in particular. This is prior speaking to George Dvorski of 718 00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:45,200 Speaker 1: Gizmoto quote. Some of the bones that make up the 719 00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:51,919 Speaker 1: ring were found inarticulation, for example, groups of vertebrae, indicating 720 00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:55,200 Speaker 1: that at least some of the bones still had cartilage 721 00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:58,320 Speaker 1: and fat attached when they were added to the pile. 722 00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:02,080 Speaker 1: This would have been ellie and would have attracted scavengers, 723 00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:05,640 Speaker 1: including wolves and foxes, which is not great if this 724 00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:11,839 Speaker 1: was a dwelling. Yeah that does sound this is an understatement, 725 00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:15,759 Speaker 1: not great. Uh yeah, do not mistake like this is 726 00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:18,680 Speaker 1: a stone age building made out of mammoth bones. But 727 00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:21,920 Speaker 1: not just clean, dry bones. These were bones with soft 728 00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:26,480 Speaker 1: tissue still clinging to them, not just like individual vertebrae, 729 00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:32,080 Speaker 1: but like parts of a wooly mammoth's intact spinal cord, etcetera. Now, 730 00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:36,400 Speaker 1: maybe they would just living foul. I have to consider 731 00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:39,520 Speaker 1: that possibility. But yeah, try to imagine living there, Like 732 00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:42,120 Speaker 1: in the warmer months when the thaw came, this bone 733 00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:45,960 Speaker 1: castle would reek of death. It would attract carnivores, it 734 00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:48,759 Speaker 1: would attract scavengers. Uh you know, it's kind of like 735 00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,319 Speaker 1: why not build an outhouse out of cotton candy and 736 00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:56,160 Speaker 1: maple syrup. Just yeah, this is the one that I 737 00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:58,840 Speaker 1: can't stop thinking about. So it's not just a palace 738 00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:02,120 Speaker 1: made out of bones, but palace of of bones with 739 00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:04,640 Speaker 1: a good bit of meat and cartilage and stuff still 740 00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:09,239 Speaker 1: stuck on there. Now here's the next argument against it 741 00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:12,120 Speaker 1: being a dwelling. Remember how I mentioned that the evidence 742 00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:15,880 Speaker 1: of stone tool manufacture the site was relatively light. This 743 00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:19,040 Speaker 1: is also taken as evidence against it being a permanent 744 00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:23,040 Speaker 1: or long inhabited dwelling. If anybody lived here, they were 745 00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:26,319 Speaker 1: either not making stone tools at a normal rate, or 746 00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:30,319 Speaker 1: they did not live here very long or very frequently. Uh. 747 00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:33,160 Speaker 1: It seems the authors here think it more likely that 748 00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:36,040 Speaker 1: if it was used as a shelter for humans, it 749 00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:39,680 Speaker 1: was only used seasonally or temporarily for a short time, 750 00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:42,120 Speaker 1: which would be kind of hard to understand for a 751 00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:45,799 Speaker 1: structure that so much intense work would have gone into 752 00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:50,839 Speaker 1: making sixty dead mammoth's bones transported from wherever they got 753 00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:53,680 Speaker 1: them to this place. I don't know. I mean, you 754 00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:56,160 Speaker 1: can perhaps imagine it was some kind of shelter against 755 00:43:56,239 --> 00:44:00,640 Speaker 1: the cold, may be used in the worst parts of winter. Um. 756 00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:03,440 Speaker 1: But if so, I mean, a good question to counter 757 00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:07,440 Speaker 1: that is, why would it be built out of mammoth bones? Again, 758 00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:11,359 Speaker 1: maybe this is just an issue of pure necessity. Like again, 759 00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:14,560 Speaker 1: you imagine the landscape. The mammoth bones might have literally 760 00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:18,920 Speaker 1: been the only thing available aside from scarce. Would supplies 761 00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:22,080 Speaker 1: from a few clumps of scrawny trees clinging on for 762 00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:24,640 Speaker 1: dear life, and the wood from those trees would have 763 00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:27,799 Speaker 1: been more valuable for starting fires than for building with. 764 00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:30,719 Speaker 1: So the bones are all you've got the only thing 765 00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:34,120 Speaker 1: you can build with. And I should mention that despite 766 00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:38,240 Speaker 1: the authors here not seeming to favor the dwelling hypothesis, 767 00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:41,520 Speaker 1: I was looking at a New York Times article that 768 00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:45,400 Speaker 1: cites Paul Pettit and archaeologists from Durham University in England, 769 00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:48,000 Speaker 1: and Pettit does not rule out the idea that this 770 00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:50,920 Speaker 1: structure was a dwelling of some kind, probably some kind 771 00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:53,319 Speaker 1: of shelter to protect against the cold in the in 772 00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:57,759 Speaker 1: the winter. So uh, not all archaeologists would would disfavor 773 00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:00,680 Speaker 1: the dwelling hypothesis. And I guess in all of this too, 774 00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:05,600 Speaker 1: like we keep coming back to very utilitarian uh explanations 775 00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:08,319 Speaker 1: for what was being done here, and I think that's 776 00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:12,000 Speaker 1: ultimately the direction to lean into. But but we we 777 00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:17,040 Speaker 1: have we have very little idea what additional say religious significance, 778 00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:21,000 Speaker 1: uh these sites might have had, right, I mean, I 779 00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:23,799 Speaker 1: mean just just spitball in here. But like if if 780 00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:27,000 Speaker 1: you're building a shelter, uh to aide you in the winter, 781 00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:30,440 Speaker 1: if there is an additional idea that somehow say this, 782 00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:33,240 Speaker 1: you know, the spirits of these of these great creatures 783 00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:35,560 Speaker 1: was somehow in the bones. You know, if there was 784 00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:37,960 Speaker 1: some like added you know, not enough to really make 785 00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:41,320 Speaker 1: a difference obviously in survival, but just some added idea 786 00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:44,400 Speaker 1: of why this place would be a good shelter. Uh, 787 00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:47,360 Speaker 1: it could conceivably have had some sort of impact on it. 788 00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:51,040 Speaker 1: I'm guessing, well, yeah, that's another possibility, is that maybe 789 00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:54,160 Speaker 1: it just had some kind of religious or ritual significance. 790 00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:56,879 Speaker 1: Maybe it's some kind of shrine to the gods or 791 00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:00,239 Speaker 1: or shrine to the kill I mean, that wouldn't be unique. It's, 792 00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:03,040 Speaker 1: you know, a shrine made out of wooly mammoth's in 793 00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:07,520 Speaker 1: honor of wooly mammoth's. That's possible. Um. And since one 794 00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:10,800 Speaker 1: of the ideas raised in that Herretts article I mentioned 795 00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:14,000 Speaker 1: earlier was that since there were traces of food found there, 796 00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:17,600 Speaker 1: not just mammoth meat, but like vegetables and other things, 797 00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:20,640 Speaker 1: and traces of fire, you can't rule out the idea 798 00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:22,840 Speaker 1: that this could have been something like a feast site, 799 00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:26,800 Speaker 1: a place where special ritual cooking and eating took place, 800 00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:31,760 Speaker 1: but not a place that people lived permanently. And again 801 00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:34,040 Speaker 1: it's hard to rule that out. Maybe, but I often 802 00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:38,640 Speaker 1: find that in archaeology it seems like ritual or religious 803 00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:42,920 Speaker 1: significance tends to be the explanation given when you see 804 00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:46,600 Speaker 1: ancient people expending a lot of effort on something and 805 00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:49,200 Speaker 1: you can't figure out what else it's for. You know, 806 00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:54,200 Speaker 1: the logic goes something like big investment plus no apparent 807 00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:59,560 Speaker 1: utilitarian purpose equals religion. And like the Pyramids zone, basically, 808 00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:02,080 Speaker 1: when we get into something like that which clearly has 809 00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:08,000 Speaker 1: no practical real world um use but has a you know, 810 00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:13,120 Speaker 1: tremendous importance within a like a spiritual, supernatural view of 811 00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:16,640 Speaker 1: the world, then again I think sometimes maybe that under 812 00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:22,919 Speaker 1: cells uh it's it's under imaginative about what practical real 813 00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:26,000 Speaker 1: world uses could be. Because take the example of the Pyramids. Okay, 814 00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:27,839 Speaker 1: you look at that, you say, there is you know, 815 00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:32,520 Speaker 1: obviously these were built for religious reasons, because you couldn't 816 00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:37,240 Speaker 1: possibly imagine a practical reason for making structures of the size, 817 00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:40,120 Speaker 1: spending this amount of money and all that. On one hand, 818 00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:42,480 Speaker 1: you would say, well, yeah, the pyramids clearly do have 819 00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:45,400 Speaker 1: religious implications. They have stuff to do with the idea 820 00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:48,839 Speaker 1: of uh, you know, the royal deity of of the 821 00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:52,239 Speaker 1: pharaohs and the afterlife in in the Egyptian religion and 822 00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:54,680 Speaker 1: all that. But I can also come up with a 823 00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:58,120 Speaker 1: list of what I think are probably practical considerations that 824 00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:01,640 Speaker 1: went into the construction of the pyramids. For example, uh, 825 00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:08,520 Speaker 1: the the pharaoh protecting his own power by demonstrating his greatness, 826 00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:14,680 Speaker 1: you know that, like the pyramids could be a essentially 827 00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:18,759 Speaker 1: a warning sign to potential rebels or invaders and like, 828 00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:21,319 Speaker 1: look how great I am. You don't want to challenge me? 829 00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:23,759 Speaker 1: And and in that way, like it's it can be 830 00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:28,640 Speaker 1: kind of hard to imagine what the cultural signaling could 831 00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:32,160 Speaker 1: have been for ancient projects because we just don't know 832 00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:35,239 Speaker 1: what the culture was like, right, Like you could imagine 833 00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:37,440 Speaker 1: and again we don't have any direct evidence of this, 834 00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:39,839 Speaker 1: but you could imagine maybe something like that is going 835 00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:43,720 Speaker 1: on with mammoth bone structures. Maybe the people who built 836 00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:46,359 Speaker 1: them it could have had some religious significance. It could 837 00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:48,759 Speaker 1: have been just people sending some kind of signal to 838 00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:51,879 Speaker 1: other people or something. Yeah, And I mean, plus it's 839 00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:54,080 Speaker 1: you know, it's difficult to imagine like the the ins 840 00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:57,480 Speaker 1: and outs of a of the society that would have 841 00:48:57,600 --> 00:49:02,560 Speaker 1: depended so much upon the regular acquisition and then processing 842 00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:04,960 Speaker 1: of these large highs, like they would have been working 843 00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:07,799 Speaker 1: who had been working with the with mammoth bodies, you know, 844 00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:10,719 Speaker 1: so much would be so much just significance placed on them. 845 00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:13,279 Speaker 1: You know, you wonder like what sort of ideas would 846 00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:15,319 Speaker 1: grow out of that, Like how would you view the 847 00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:19,440 Speaker 1: bones of these creatures? Uh, yeah, it's it's it's fascinating 848 00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:22,120 Speaker 1: to try to imagine. Um. But but yeah, certainly to 849 00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:24,920 Speaker 1: your point, even something that has that is essentially a 850 00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:27,799 Speaker 1: religious structure is going to it's it's not going to 851 00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:30,719 Speaker 1: exist outside of our world. It's still going to uh 852 00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:33,200 Speaker 1: you know service say something like a make work project. 853 00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:35,680 Speaker 1: It's going to serve as a as a as a 854 00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:40,080 Speaker 1: symbol of power, a symbol of of royal or even 855 00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:44,040 Speaker 1: divine um, uh, you know association. Yeah, there's there are 856 00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:46,440 Speaker 1: a number of ways that could factor into into the 857 00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:50,400 Speaker 1: maintenance of once power structure. Yeah. Yeah, my imagination is 858 00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:52,560 Speaker 1: actually running wild now that we're talking about this. I 859 00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:56,839 Speaker 1: hadn't really thought about this aspect before we started recording today. Um, 860 00:49:57,080 --> 00:49:59,080 Speaker 1: what if these bones structures? Again, I want to be 861 00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:00,840 Speaker 1: very clear, there's no direc at evidence of this, and 862 00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:04,560 Speaker 1: we're just imagining. What if these these bone circles were 863 00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:07,160 Speaker 1: something more like you know, the Arc de triomp for 864 00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:10,759 Speaker 1: the pyramids or something they were made to like impress 865 00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:13,879 Speaker 1: somebody to show off. Look at all these mammoths I killed. 866 00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:17,640 Speaker 1: Look what a glorious hunter king I am. Yeah, yeah, 867 00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:20,880 Speaker 1: look how favored we are by uh, the hunt or 868 00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:24,880 Speaker 1: whatever supernatural powers might lie beyond the hunt. What if 869 00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:27,520 Speaker 1: it was a signaling thing for this area where there 870 00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:30,799 Speaker 1: was some pretty unique resource of as far as these 871 00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:34,000 Speaker 1: northern latitudes go. Maybe you wanted to scare other potential 872 00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:36,560 Speaker 1: hunter gatherers who could be coming in the area to 873 00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:39,359 Speaker 1: try to get your scraggly trees or access to your 874 00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:42,759 Speaker 1: water source or something like that. Yeah, maybe it's like saying, hey, 875 00:50:43,080 --> 00:50:47,359 Speaker 1: other wandering humans, you're venturing into a zone where people 876 00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:50,000 Speaker 1: are capable of bringing down this many mammoths. Maybe you 877 00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:52,839 Speaker 1: don't want to mess with us. Yeah, So again, just speculation, 878 00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:57,279 Speaker 1: but it I do think it's it's important to recognize that, like, 879 00:50:57,440 --> 00:51:02,120 Speaker 1: our imagination is limited in understand why ancient people's did things, 880 00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:06,320 Speaker 1: especially when like we don't know much about their culture 881 00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:09,840 Speaker 1: and what kinds of social and what kinds of broader 882 00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:12,920 Speaker 1: social relationships and pressures they had. But I want to 883 00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:16,840 Speaker 1: come back to one final hypothesis about the role of 884 00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:20,360 Speaker 1: this place of this bone structure, and this one is 885 00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:24,239 Speaker 1: more directly utilitarian. This one is more directly about how 886 00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:29,000 Speaker 1: to survive in the landscape. And this this hypothesis is 887 00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:32,600 Speaker 1: that it's basically a type of storehouse for food. And 888 00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:36,000 Speaker 1: this seems to be the the idea that the researchers themselves, 889 00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:39,120 Speaker 1: including prior that I get the feeling that they kind 890 00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:42,520 Speaker 1: of favor, and the team is looking into evidence of 891 00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:46,720 Speaker 1: this possibility in their ongoing work. But basically, the idea 892 00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:49,600 Speaker 1: is that this bone circle, and perhaps others too, would 893 00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:52,160 Speaker 1: have been used as a place to store meat and 894 00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:56,000 Speaker 1: other foods. Now, normally we associate food storage with the 895 00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:59,320 Speaker 1: advent of agriculture, right, but there's some hints that perhaps 896 00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:04,000 Speaker 1: some no men attic pre agricultural hunter gatherers found ways 897 00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:08,279 Speaker 1: to store excess food and uh, you can imagine a 898 00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:11,360 Speaker 1: need for this, right, Like a dead mammoth generates a 899 00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:14,760 Speaker 1: lot of meat I dare say, more than it's possible 900 00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:18,120 Speaker 1: to eat before it starts to spoil. And people at 901 00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:20,520 Speaker 1: this time didn't have all the options that we do 902 00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:24,680 Speaker 1: for food preservation. But it's possible that these people figured 903 00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:27,680 Speaker 1: out that after a mammoth kill, they could butcher the 904 00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:30,640 Speaker 1: animal and store its meat in a structure like this, 905 00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:34,120 Speaker 1: maybe buried down in the permafrost, to save it for 906 00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:39,239 Speaker 1: meager times later when food was scarce. All right, now 907 00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:41,320 Speaker 1: you're talking. So if it's if it's in the you 908 00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:43,719 Speaker 1: bury in the earth, you keep it cool. You just 909 00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:46,000 Speaker 1: need you need to make sure that nothing else digs 910 00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:48,440 Speaker 1: it up. You might you need to cap that and 911 00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:51,560 Speaker 1: of course we know from various funeral traditions throughout the world, 912 00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:53,399 Speaker 1: like one way to do that is cap it off 913 00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:55,560 Speaker 1: with a big stone. But if you don't have a 914 00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:58,560 Speaker 1: big stone, what what are you gonna do? Right? Oh, yeah, 915 00:52:58,680 --> 00:53:01,719 Speaker 1: that's a possibility. Maybe the bones are a barrier to 916 00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:05,040 Speaker 1: protect these buried stores of food that are down in 917 00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:08,720 Speaker 1: the permafrost. So if this really was a storehouse for food, 918 00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:12,120 Speaker 1: that would show that these hunter gatherers didn't just follow 919 00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:15,640 Speaker 1: animal herds for their immediate food needs, but instead actually 920 00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:19,840 Speaker 1: planned for the future by storing resources and known locations 921 00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:23,560 Speaker 1: that they could find an access later. Uh. And again 922 00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:27,480 Speaker 1: remember all the evidence of bones burned as fuel within 923 00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:31,200 Speaker 1: this bone building. Well that that sort of fits as 924 00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:34,440 Speaker 1: well at least maybe Remember burning bones do not put 925 00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:36,719 Speaker 1: out very even heat, but they do put out a 926 00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:39,960 Speaker 1: lot of light. And uh, and I've seen cited in 927 00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:42,719 Speaker 1: several sources that the authors here kind of speculate what 928 00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:47,080 Speaker 1: if the fires from the burned bones here were to 929 00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:51,320 Speaker 1: produce light to work by so that hunters after a 930 00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:54,520 Speaker 1: mammoth gill could work long into the dark night to 931 00:53:54,719 --> 00:53:58,000 Speaker 1: quickly process and strip the meat from the mammoth bones 932 00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:01,520 Speaker 1: before wolves and other scy avengers arrived in order to 933 00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:05,120 Speaker 1: get it stored away. Yeah, yeah, I like that idea. Yeah, 934 00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:06,919 Speaker 1: because you only you only have have so much time. 935 00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:10,359 Speaker 1: It's just gonna draw attention. One last idea about how 936 00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:13,600 Speaker 1: and why these structures were put together that the lead 937 00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:17,960 Speaker 1: author prior suggests, quote one possibility is that the mammoths 938 00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:20,960 Speaker 1: and humans could have come to the area on mass 939 00:54:21,600 --> 00:54:24,920 Speaker 1: because it had a natural spring that would have provided 940 00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:29,000 Speaker 1: unfrozen liquid water throughout the winter, rare in this period 941 00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:31,759 Speaker 1: of extreme cold. So that that gets back to your 942 00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:34,480 Speaker 1: idea of like, you know, people, you know, why would 943 00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:37,600 Speaker 1: people go to a region that's just frozen and very 944 00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:41,280 Speaker 1: barren and resources are scarce. What if you can access 945 00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:43,880 Speaker 1: water here and in the surrounding landscape it's all going 946 00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:46,080 Speaker 1: to be frozen. We don't know this, but this is 947 00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:49,759 Speaker 1: another possibility to imagine. Anyway, it looks like due to time, 948 00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:51,719 Speaker 1: I think we're gonna have to cap the first part 949 00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:55,960 Speaker 1: of our exploration of of bone palaces and bone construction 950 00:54:56,719 --> 00:55:00,279 Speaker 1: right here. But man, this subject really gets my blood 951 00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:03,080 Speaker 1: pump and I get so excited about these mysteries, like 952 00:55:03,239 --> 00:55:06,160 Speaker 1: what were these people doing? What was this for? I 953 00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:08,520 Speaker 1: don't know that. This is the kind of thing I 954 00:55:08,719 --> 00:55:11,360 Speaker 1: love thinking about. Yeah, I mean it forces you to 955 00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:14,640 Speaker 1: sort of strip down the human condition and human culture 956 00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:17,960 Speaker 1: to its uh, to its bare bones, and imagine what 957 00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:20,800 Speaker 1: something like this would would, would would serve, what purpose 958 00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:23,560 Speaker 1: it would serve. Uh. Yeah, So we're gonna we're gonna 959 00:55:23,719 --> 00:55:25,800 Speaker 1: cap it here. We're gonna cap this episode off with 960 00:55:25,880 --> 00:55:30,399 Speaker 1: a nice uh construction of mammoth remains. But then we're 961 00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:32,480 Speaker 1: going and we're gonna leave. But then we're gonna come 962 00:55:32,520 --> 00:55:35,520 Speaker 1: back and we're going to record a second episode where 963 00:55:35,560 --> 00:55:38,880 Speaker 1: we'll discuss more about the use of bone technology and 964 00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:42,240 Speaker 1: human history and also how some of you know, various 965 00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:47,240 Speaker 1: animals engage with the remains of other creatures. In the meantime, 966 00:55:47,320 --> 00:55:49,400 Speaker 1: if you would like to check out other episodes of 967 00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:51,799 Speaker 1: Stuff to blow your mind. You can find the show 968 00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:55,759 Speaker 1: wherever you find your podcasts and wherever that happens to be. 969 00:55:56,200 --> 00:55:59,080 Speaker 1: Make sure that you rate, review, and subscribe. That really 970 00:55:59,160 --> 00:56:01,120 Speaker 1: helps us out in the long run. If you go 971 00:56:01,200 --> 00:56:02,759 Speaker 1: to stuff to Blow your Mind dot com, that will 972 00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:05,200 Speaker 1: shoot you over to the I heart listing for our show. 973 00:56:05,640 --> 00:56:08,440 Speaker 1: Oh another thing, Uh, you might have noticed or heard 974 00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:10,879 Speaker 1: us mentioned this already, but we've been regularly putting out 975 00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:13,720 Speaker 1: playlists every week. It's like a playlist of ten past 976 00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:16,800 Speaker 1: episodes and uh, we're you know, this is something that 977 00:56:17,080 --> 00:56:19,880 Speaker 1: the company wrote, rolled out and we decided to have 978 00:56:20,120 --> 00:56:21,880 Speaker 1: some fun with it, try and pick out some some 979 00:56:22,040 --> 00:56:25,080 Speaker 1: topics that would be engaging and you know, maybe even 980 00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:29,600 Speaker 1: distracting in these challenging times. So we hope you enjoyed them. 981 00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:31,839 Speaker 1: And if if you're not enjoying it, well, I hope 982 00:56:31,880 --> 00:56:34,080 Speaker 1: it's not too much of an inconvenience. I hope it's 983 00:56:34,120 --> 00:56:37,560 Speaker 1: both an inconvenience and you're enjoying them. That's true. It 984 00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:39,600 Speaker 1: can be both things. A lot of things, a lot 985 00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:42,319 Speaker 1: of aspects of life can be both things in these 986 00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:46,480 Speaker 1: challenging times. Okay, so here's thanks as always to our 987 00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:50,320 Speaker 1: excellent audio producer Seth Nicholis Johnson, who is going to 988 00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:53,120 Speaker 1: great lengths to keep the show sounding great for you 989 00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:58,279 Speaker 1: out there, even despite our you know, changing recording situations. 990 00:56:58,360 --> 00:57:02,239 Speaker 1: So y'all please show your appreciation for SETH. If you 991 00:57:02,239 --> 00:57:04,640 Speaker 1: would like to get in touch with us with feedback 992 00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:06,960 Speaker 1: on this episode or any other, to suggest a topic 993 00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:09,120 Speaker 1: for the future, or just to say hi, you can 994 00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:12,640 Speaker 1: email us at contact at stuff to Blow Your Mind 995 00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:22,920 Speaker 1: dot com Stuff to Blow Your Mind's production of I 996 00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:25,880 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit 997 00:57:25,920 --> 00:57:28,480 Speaker 1: the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 998 00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:29,760 Speaker 1: listening to your favorite shows.