Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Civic Cipher. I am your host,
Speaker 1: ramses Jah, and I want to send a big shout
Speaker 1: out to q Ward, who is not with us today.
Speaker 2: He is.
Speaker 1: Nursing himself back to health. All is well in his world.
Speaker 1: But we have something that I think is even more
Speaker 1: appropriate for today. As you know, this is our last
Speaker 1: episode of twenty twenty, a year that has affected pretty
Speaker 1: much all of us in one way or another and
Speaker 1: definitely one that we're all going to remember for the
Speaker 1: rest of our lives. For some it's changed us, you know, forever.
Speaker 1: For some of us, it's made us very paranoid. For
Speaker 1: some of us, it's made us, you know, see the
Speaker 1: world through a different lens, or a few different lenses.
Speaker 1: But in order to mark this show, our last show
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty, I wanted to do a bit of
Speaker 1: a recap, just to kind of flesh out some of
Speaker 1: the things that we may have learned. And it occurred
Speaker 1: to me that having a conversation with someone who perhaps
Speaker 1: doesn't live in the same space as me, a black
Speaker 1: man thirty eight years old watching the events of twenty
Speaker 1: twenty unfold around him, viewing the events of twenty twenty
Speaker 1: through someone else's lens, someone I consider to be an
Speaker 1: ally of black people and humans, you know, but black people.
Speaker 1: We've had conversations before, and I understand this man's heart.
Speaker 1: I understand him to be a reasonable man, a thinker,
Speaker 1: not easily given to you know, paranoia and some of
Speaker 1: the things that a lot of folks have been very
Speaker 1: susceptible to this past year, with you know, an election
Speaker 1: really dividing the country very deeply in some parts of
Speaker 1: the country, and self worth. I wanted to see what
Speaker 1: this year looked like through the lens of someone else,
Speaker 1: someone who's walked a different path, someone who may have
Speaker 1: drawn different conclusions and arrived at different outcomes, because there's
Speaker 1: still a little bit more learning left to do, and
Speaker 1: I would love to start off twenty twenty one just
Speaker 1: knowing what, if any progress we have made in terms
Speaker 1: of growth as humans. And the best way to do
Speaker 1: that is to have a conversation with folks and find
Speaker 1: out how the world feels to them, and how how
Speaker 1: the events have felt to them, and and kind of
Speaker 1: examined their growth. And so today I'm joined by a
Speaker 1: friend of mine, Ian Basquez. How you doing, brother, good, good, good, Okay?
Speaker 1: And to be fair, Ian is it's sort of a
Speaker 1: neighbor of mine. You know, our kids play together and
Speaker 1: we've had a number of conversations. But I don't want
Speaker 1: anyone to take this the wrong way. But this interview
Speaker 1: happened to come together because of your normal normalness is
Speaker 1: not the right way to say it. But but you
Speaker 1: don't hold an elected position. You're not a police officer.
Speaker 1: You're not, from what I understand, not an act of
Speaker 1: you know, these things that would really entrench you firmly
Speaker 1: into a specific belief system or anything like that. You're
Speaker 1: a person who has seen the events of the world
Speaker 1: unfold and a person who I believe has empathy and
Speaker 1: kindness at the core of his being. Our children play together,
Speaker 1: and so I'm able to see Ian as a father
Speaker 1: interact with not only his son, but with my son.
Speaker 1: And my son obviously is black, and your son could
Speaker 1: very easily pass for white with.
Speaker 2: The blonde hair and the light eyes and everything like this,
Speaker 2: and so.
Speaker 1: You know, walking that path, I felt like you'd be
Speaker 1: perfect for this, just to kind of see some of
Speaker 1: the things that you may have learned.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: I want to also get a little bit of a
Speaker 1: background on you. So my understanding is that you work
Speaker 1: in it consulting. Give me a little bit about out
Speaker 1: what that is and what your day to day is
Speaker 1: in the world.
Speaker 3: Sure, Well, about seven years ago I started my own
Speaker 3: consulting practice. At first, I was, you know, on my own,
Speaker 3: and over the course of that time, I've hired a
Speaker 3: few employees and I now have a little niche consulting
Speaker 3: practice that I can kind of own and operate a
Speaker 3: few employees, and we help companies with cloud based solutions,
Speaker 3: you know, help them grow and basically implement technology that
Speaker 3: you know, might be a little bit tough for them
Speaker 3: to understand internally.
Speaker 2: We help out with that.
Speaker 1: But the thing that I thought was relevant is as
Speaker 1: a business owner, as someone who started a business himself
Speaker 1: and has grown it to now where you have employees.
Speaker 1: A disconnect, at least for me, is that I have
Speaker 1: a tended see to believe that those types of people
Speaker 1: are oftentimes only motivated by money, and they fail to
Speaker 1: consider the human implications or the human cost of their
Speaker 1: belief system, their their voting records, et cetera. And in
Speaker 1: my dealings with you, I've learned that.
Speaker 2: I may have been.
Speaker 1: Painting with broad strokes in terms of my opinions of
Speaker 1: folks who are business owners. Now, you know, I recognize
Speaker 1: that lots of people start businesses and everyone has to
Speaker 1: participate in and this capitalistic society. That's how you know,
Speaker 1: the money works. But to know that, you know, a
Speaker 1: person like you has achieved a degree of success, you
Speaker 1: have a degree of mobility from where I sit in
Speaker 1: your life. To also know that there's a part of
Speaker 1: you that really will stop to consider what the world
Speaker 1: must feel like to other people who don't have the
Speaker 1: same mobility, it really allowed me to recognize that well,
Speaker 1: you know, most of us really understand and recognize that
Speaker 1: we're humans first, and you know, very few of us
Speaker 1: are able to get to the point where we're able
Speaker 1: to start our own businesses and you know, move around
Speaker 1: like that. Even fewer still are able to carry experiences
Speaker 1: like you know, I always share my story on the
Speaker 1: show that you know, I was born in Compton, California,
Speaker 1: had a really rough upbringing, and you know, queue the
Speaker 1: same thing from Detroit. You know, grew up very poor
Speaker 1: in a city that's just crumbled all around him throughout
Speaker 1: his life. Very few of us are able to take
Speaker 1: those type of experiences and the empathy and the understanding
Speaker 1: that the world is not always a kind place into
Speaker 1: a place where you're able to, you know, start a
Speaker 1: business and you know, function as a form of economic
Speaker 1: empowerment to people who might share those same views. I
Speaker 1: just thought it was really interesting to see the way
Speaker 1: that you have retained or maybe you never lost, that
Speaker 1: human element, like, well, I'm a man first, I'm a man.
Speaker 2: I'm a man who loves his family.
Speaker 1: I live in the same world with other folks, and
Speaker 1: I recognize that, you know, obviously there's people that are
Speaker 1: going to do better, there's people that are going to
Speaker 1: do worse. But I'm not going to go into this where, hey,
Speaker 1: this whole thing is about me, everyone else is on
Speaker 1: their own, because I think that you recognize on some
Speaker 1: level that it just doesn't work that way. And so
Speaker 1: I was always very appreciative of, you know, the depth
Speaker 1: of the conversations that we were able to have. And
Speaker 1: so I appreciate you coming on this show and you know,
Speaker 1: helping out and sharing your insight and so.
Speaker 3: Well, let me say that, yeah, thank you, Yeah, I
Speaker 3: appreciate the invitation. It's really an honor. As you know,
Speaker 3: I've mentioned you, I listened to a couple of your
Speaker 3: earlier shows, not all of that, but.
Speaker 2: I just think it's a wonderful thing you're doing.
Speaker 3: I'm really honored that you would have asked me to
Speaker 3: be here part of it, and I'm really honored by
Speaker 3: the comments that you made about.
Speaker 2: You know, I don't know, just just being a decent
Speaker 2: human being.
Speaker 3: I appreciate that, and coming from you, that really means
Speaker 3: a lot, because I think the same thing back at you.
Speaker 2: Well, I appreciate that.
Speaker 1: So you know, I know that this year has had
Speaker 1: a lot of crazy stuff happen in it, and I
Speaker 1: know that we're not going to get away from the
Speaker 1: fact that, you know, we've dealt with a pandemic for
Speaker 1: the majority of twenty twenty.
Speaker 2: But I want to.
Speaker 1: Start with perhaps the most pertinent question for this show
Speaker 1: on this platform. What is perhaps the foremost thing that
Speaker 1: you have learned or been made aware of with respect
Speaker 1: to black folks specifically and their plight in twenty twenty.
Speaker 2: Great question.
Speaker 3: I'm to be honest, having a hard time taking away
Speaker 3: and saying here's what I've learned, because I think what
Speaker 3: twenty twenty has made me.
Speaker 2: Realize is you know, how little we know? You know
Speaker 2: and are.
Speaker 3: How difficult it is to try to make sense of
Speaker 3: the world sometimes, But I've reflected a lot on it.
Speaker 3: It's just been so in everyone's face. I think I've
Speaker 3: just really reflected on the struggle that it must be
Speaker 3: a lot, and some of the conversations that we had,
Speaker 3: you know, late at night, as we like bumping into
Speaker 3: each other on the street. I think more so than
Speaker 3: anything else, it's more like a feeling. Like lately, I've
Speaker 3: just been feeling more and I've been feeling the struggle
Speaker 3: amongst people of color, and feeling the struggle amongst people
Speaker 3: who are not of color, and the sense that from
Speaker 3: you know, the view from my front porch, I think
Speaker 3: your typical American really wants to bridge these gaps. You know,
Speaker 3: there's these wedges that seem to be dividing our communities,
Speaker 3: and I tend to believe that we would all do
Speaker 3: away with those if, you know, if we could. And
Speaker 3: there seems to be some other elements that are really
Speaker 3: affecting our society, whether it be social media and some
Speaker 3: of the costic effect that that's been having, or the
Speaker 3: media in general, and you know, things being more polarized.
Speaker 3: I really applaud you for what you're doing here, because
Speaker 3: I tend to think one of the challenges we're having
Speaker 3: is that a lot of what we hear on the
Speaker 3: news or radio are personalities that are inherently polarized, because
Speaker 3: that seems to get clicks or views or listens when
Speaker 3: you're having two people to stake it out really extreme
Speaker 3: positions that just seems to be what people are tuning
Speaker 3: in for lately.
Speaker 2: But if you talk with.
Speaker 3: You know, real regular everyday people, most times, most folks
Speaker 3: are pretty reasonable and you know, might fall down on
Speaker 3: different sides of any particular issue. But your question about
Speaker 3: the black community, I think I think I go back
Speaker 3: to like really recognizing that if you haven't walked in
Speaker 3: somebody's shoes, you really only know your own experience, and
Speaker 3: you really have to be sensitive too when somebody else
Speaker 3: is telling you, look, this is how it's looking from
Speaker 3: my front porch, they really need to tune in and listen.
Speaker 1: Sure. One of the things that has really shaped and
Speaker 1: really set the tone for twenty twenty is, of course,
Speaker 1: the I'm gonna I'm gonna call it what it is,
Speaker 1: the the public execution of George Floyd, the video that
Speaker 1: we were all able.
Speaker 2: To see a man lose his life for.
Speaker 1: If there was a crime committed, we don't even know
Speaker 1: that he was aware that, you know. I think that
Speaker 1: the issue was that he had a fake dollar and
Speaker 1: me having you know, I'm a DJ, so I've worked
Speaker 1: in businesses for cash businesses, so yeah, you end up
Speaker 1: with a fake dollar, you know, you don't know until
Speaker 1: you know, because I'm not trained it. But anyway, we
Speaker 1: saw this man lose his life and it very much
Speaker 1: deepened the divide between.
Speaker 2: People.
Speaker 1: You know, as you said, from my porch again a
Speaker 1: person that my earliest memories of the police were shaped
Speaker 1: by the LAPD. I was born in nineteen eighty two,
Speaker 1: so when the Rodney King riots were taking place, I
Speaker 1: kind of not kind of I very much understood that.
Speaker 1: At ten years old, I understood that. I'm like, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: the police are the ones that are The police have
Speaker 1: never been the heroes in my story. And I understand
Speaker 1: that from someone else's porch, it looks like in gratitude, dude,
Speaker 1: you know, but you know, well, a lack of appreciation
Speaker 1: for the police. Police getting called to come out and
Speaker 1: help out a situation because the police, if the police
Speaker 1: show up, no one ever called the police. When we
Speaker 1: were little, if the police showed up that minute, it
Speaker 1: was time to leave, because the police were there to
Speaker 1: do more harm. And so you know, when I hit
Speaker 1: fourth grade, fifth grade, this is by the time I
Speaker 1: moved to Arizona, and we had like the Dare program
Speaker 1: that the police would come in and they would give
Speaker 1: out toys and candy. It was just a very, very
Speaker 1: different sort of police interaction than I was accustomed to,
Speaker 1: and it certainly didn't help bridge that divide, that disconnect
Speaker 1: that I felt with the police, because I had seen
Speaker 1: the police, like with these eyes, do harm to human beings,
Speaker 1: and I didn't understand what those people had done to
Speaker 1: the police. But I very very much remember what the
Speaker 1: police did to those people. One quick example that just
Speaker 1: comes to mind, and I've shared this on the show
Speaker 1: before for those who listened every week. One thing that
Speaker 1: sticks out of my mind. This was the lapd again
Speaker 1: back in the eighties, but I remember the police pulling
Speaker 1: a man out of a car was a white car
Speaker 1: ininal was eighties, like big box cars. It pulled him
Speaker 1: out of the car and they set him on the
Speaker 1: ground next to the driver's side door, and then they
Speaker 1: took his head and they slammed his head into the
Speaker 1: We're at a red light, sitting there watching this happen.
Speaker 1: So I'm in the back seat looking out the window.
Speaker 1: You know, little kids do that little thing. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: they slammed his head against the car, the door, the
Speaker 1: car door, and it dented the door of the car.
Speaker 1: And then the woman who was driving the car. My
Speaker 1: dad was in the front seat, and there was a
Speaker 1: woman driving the car. She took off speeding because she
Speaker 1: saw that the police were hurting that man, so that
Speaker 1: she was afraid of the police.
Speaker 2: I saw what the.
Speaker 1: Police were doing. We didn't see the man do anything.
Speaker 1: It was at a red light and the police, you know,
Speaker 1: pulled over whatever the case was. But I remember that happening.
Speaker 1: With that said again, the DARE program, these sorts of
Speaker 1: things became very very much the opposite of what I've
Speaker 1: known of the police to do. And so me interacting
Speaker 1: with the police was very much a tall order because
Speaker 1: you know, you were taught by them. You know, there
Speaker 1: wasn't no one came and said, hey, Ramas this listen.
Speaker 1: The police is bad guy, you know. Yeah, but I
Speaker 1: recognize that again from my porch, it's a very different view.
Speaker 3: And so well does that view I've always wondered, is
Speaker 3: it that you could see yourself being in that same
Speaker 3: situationally easily?
Speaker 1: And the worst part about it is I was never
Speaker 1: able to see the why. It was almost like it
Speaker 1: just kind of happened at random. Ye Now, and now
Speaker 1: that I'm a little older and I can be fair,
Speaker 1: I do recognize that there is a tendency that's me
Speaker 1: being very generous, But there's a tendency for the police
Speaker 1: to be around the crimes or the criminals. That's not
Speaker 1: always the case sometimes, you know, I always say this
Speaker 1: in my personal life, if you're looking for something, you're
Speaker 1: going to find it, even if it's not there. You know,
Speaker 1: I've been in relationships. You know, I'm not married, so
Speaker 1: this has happened to me a few times in my life.
Speaker 1: But I've been in relationships or you know, lady friends.
Speaker 1: We'll go through my phone and I'll say it, if
Speaker 1: you're looking for something, you're going to find it even
Speaker 1: if it's not there. Yeah, And so you know, a
Speaker 1: similar I have a similar idea when.
Speaker 2: It comes to the police.
Speaker 1: You know, if you're doing stop and frisk, which is
Speaker 1: a thing that has happened in New York.
Speaker 2: Are you familiar with us a little bit? Okay, So
Speaker 2: for those.
Speaker 1: Who are not Stopping frisk was a policy implemented in
Speaker 1: New York which basically gave the police license to stop
Speaker 1: black and brown kids, you know, Puerto Rican black kids
Speaker 1: and just you know, shake them down, see if they
Speaker 1: had any drugs and he stolen good whatever. And it's
Speaker 1: a very dehumanizing and very racist thing to do to
Speaker 1: human beings, especially human beings were poor where there's no
Speaker 1: real economic you know, we could we could examine it
Speaker 1: all day, but just imagine if that was happening to you,
Speaker 1: if you how embarrassing and how humiliating that is for
Speaker 1: the police to pull you over.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I remember first reading about that in that Malcolm Gladwell
Speaker 3: book At the Tipping Point.
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 3: In that book he was talking about the broken windows theory.
Speaker 3: That the book is about tipping point, when do you
Speaker 3: get to a point that things start going in the
Speaker 3: direction that you either want or don't want? Right, And
Speaker 3: this broken windows idea is that when people see broken windows,
Speaker 3: they commit crimes. Right, Like, the environment that appears that
Speaker 3: laws and rules are not being followed can actually encourage
Speaker 3: somebody to sure not follow rules and commit crimes. And
Speaker 3: so that's where they were kind of coming from, thinking, Okay,
Speaker 3: let's prosecute even small the smallest of crimes to reduce
Speaker 3: overall crime and reduce more major crime.
Speaker 2: It's been a lot of.
Speaker 3: It's possibly good intention, ever, you know, who knows, you know,
Speaker 3: you never know what's in somebody's heart. But folks have
Speaker 3: good intentions to try to do something, and then a
Speaker 3: lot of times it does not doesn't work out that
Speaker 3: work out that way, right, Yeah, it's a.
Speaker 1: Very complicated society. And this is this is sort of
Speaker 1: where I was where I was going with that, you know,
Speaker 1: having this view of the world, and a lot of people,
Speaker 1: especially people of color, black and brown folks, share this
Speaker 1: view of the world. So when we see a person
Speaker 1: like George Floyd get executed in the street and it's
Speaker 1: in the middle of a pandemic where you know, we
Speaker 1: really don't have to go to work tomorrow, Yeah there's
Speaker 1: nothing going on. Now is the time we can actually
Speaker 1: get out here and do something about this, and we do,
Speaker 1: you know, And and you know, I've taken my children
Speaker 1: out there just so that they understand that there is
Speaker 1: some solidarity there. You know, I may not be around
Speaker 1: for my children. You know, I lost my father a
Speaker 1: few years ago, and you know, even at thirty five,
Speaker 1: when I had to bury my dad, I recognize that
Speaker 1: I still needed him, you know. And you know, the
Speaker 1: beginning of this year really taught me something when Kobe's.
Speaker 2: Helicopter fell out of the sky.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that you know, tomorrow's really not promised, you know,
Speaker 1: And so I wanted to make sure that I give
Speaker 1: as many of the lessons to my children as I
Speaker 1: possibly can, and even at you know, and you know,
Speaker 1: my my youngest son, he's he was five at the time,
Speaker 1: just turned six, and you know, recognize I may not
Speaker 1: be there for them forever. It was it felt like
Speaker 1: it was very important for me to be out on
Speaker 1: the streets with them, showing them that hey, you no
Speaker 1: matter you're you're a cute kid right now. But you know,
Speaker 1: if the right person takes a look at you, you're
Speaker 1: a black man. So you know, that's and that's something
Speaker 1: that we talk about a lot. Is a lot of times.
Speaker 3: Uh did you talk to them about the George Floyda.
Speaker 2: Over and over again. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But at the point I was making is that the porch,
Speaker 1: this this porch, I love that analogy.
Speaker 2: But this porch.
Speaker 1: You know, we look at the police and we see
Speaker 1: these things, and these things very much match the patterns
Speaker 1: that we've established over the course of our lives.
Speaker 2: But to other folks, we will.
Speaker 1: Call them the specifically the Blue Lives Matter folks, the
Speaker 1: the counter protesters, the people that wave the flags, that
Speaker 1: feel like the police need need support, and so forth.
Speaker 1: I get it that their view of what's happening it
Speaker 1: looks like in gratitude, and it looks like there's this
Speaker 1: very I hate you keep using this word, but disconnected
Speaker 1: and I think that's what we're talking about her, this disconnected,
Speaker 1: cavalier sort of attitude or or this idea that well,
Speaker 1: naturally those people would feel that way about the system
Speaker 1: when they are on the opposite side of the system. Yea,
Speaker 1: And so to us, you know, we can launch a
Speaker 1: full frontal attack on the police, if you will, in
Speaker 1: a manner of speaking, not not the humans, but the system.
Speaker 1: You know, there's something that's been said that I've learned
Speaker 1: this past year, and that's that the system is doing
Speaker 1: exactly what it's what it was created to do. So
Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong with the system. It's not broken it's
Speaker 1: doing what it was meant to do. And there's this
Speaker 1: idea that if we change the system, then we can
Speaker 1: change the way laws are handed down, the way sentencing
Speaker 1: is handed down, the way policing is done, and law
Speaker 1: enforcement is done, and it doesn't require human beings to
Speaker 1: be executed in the street. There's a basic belief system
Speaker 1: that even if a person is guilty of a crime,
Speaker 1: that they should be able to state their case and
Speaker 1: they should have the opportunity to be rehabilitated. And then
Speaker 1: there's some people that take it further, of course, that
Speaker 1: prisons do not really lead to rehabilitation of criminals and
Speaker 1: so forth. And the money is being spent in such
Speaker 1: a way that people profit from it, and it's become
Speaker 1: an economic institution and it's become the norm. And people
Speaker 1: are very upset when you try to change the norm,
Speaker 1: because for the people that it works for, it seems fine.
Speaker 1: And when you come with a radical idea like you know, well,
Speaker 1: Black Lives Matter is radical to some folks, but not
Speaker 1: to everyone. But something that's been radical to even more
Speaker 1: people is this idea that you should defund the police.
Speaker 1: When you come with an idea like let's defund the police.
Speaker 1: Then those people who benefit or they don't experience the
Speaker 1: negative parts of policing and police interaction or the criminal
Speaker 1: justice system, it hasn't affected their lives in the same
Speaker 1: way that it's affected so many black and brown folks disproportionately.
Speaker 1: Then those people have a tendency to say, well, you know,
Speaker 1: let's defend the police. And if you come and you say, well,
Speaker 1: you know, black lives matter, because historically this country has
Speaker 1: treated black lives as though they don't matter, and therefore
Speaker 1: this statement needs to be said expressly said, black lives matter.
Speaker 1: We need to chant it, We need to hit the
Speaker 1: streets and say this so that people know, so that
Speaker 1: it's burned into the consciousness of this country, so that
Speaker 1: it's burned into the seared into the consciousness of the
Speaker 1: people who are responsible for enforcing laws and passing down punishment,
Speaker 1: that these lives are important, These are these are human beings,
Speaker 1: in doubt that the same consciousness from the same creator
Speaker 1: black lives matter. But those people to then be challenged
Speaker 1: with a statement like blue lives matter, when historically that
Speaker 1: has never been in question. The police have never the police,
Speaker 1: there's never been a question. Police have not been they've
Speaker 1: they've not done medical experiments on the police to see
Speaker 1: what effects it would have on people. The police have
Speaker 1: not been you know, stripped of their name and their
Speaker 1: and their history. They've not been raped and and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, robbed and and and redlined into you know,
Speaker 1: certain neighborhoods and denied economic opportunities and denied political representation,
Speaker 1: have their communities terrorized, and you know, all the crimes
Speaker 1: of this country to black people. Police and lives have
Speaker 1: asked me, but there are some black police officers. Absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 1: That's why I said, not the people, a system, the system,
Speaker 1: but historically because police and lives have never really been
Speaker 1: into question, and black lives obviously have. There's there's very
Speaker 1: much a well documented history with this country and how
Speaker 1: they treat black folks. It feels particularly or it has
Speaker 1: felt particularly offensive this past year to meet people with
Speaker 1: those flags and then there's a blue strip on the flag.
Speaker 1: For me, rams is the individual, especially because I know
Speaker 1: that you're not supposed to change the colors of the flag.
Speaker 1: And so these people who are so patriotic, and these
Speaker 1: people who are so you know, USA, USA, you know
Speaker 1: America first, those folks they tend to be Trump votes,
Speaker 1: you know, with the flags hanging from their trucks and
Speaker 1: you know that sort of thing.
Speaker 2: They're not aware that you're not.
Speaker 1: Supposed to change the colors of the flags. And so
Speaker 1: this is kind of what I've had to encounter, especially
Speaker 1: walking this path where I have to address a full
Speaker 1: city of people, you know this This show is carried
Speaker 1: on just to name a few stations, ninety eight point
Speaker 1: three Power and ninety three nine, which is an alternative station,
Speaker 1: and in South Phoenix there's one O two seven that
Speaker 1: carries the.
Speaker 2: Show as well.
Speaker 1: But there's a very diverse group of people. Obviously black
Speaker 1: folks and brown folks listen to the show, but more allies.
Speaker 1: And there are some folks who will disagree with everything
Speaker 1: that I say, but they tune in because they need
Speaker 1: to understand what it's like on this side in order
Speaker 1: to formulate an argument to disagree.
Speaker 2: And so I've had to be.
Speaker 1: Very mindful of how I frame this, this narrative in
Speaker 1: these conversations on this show.
Speaker 2: Well, can I ask you a questions? All right?
Speaker 3: Because I'm one hundred percent with you, Although I wonder
Speaker 3: how can one say black lives matter and I support
Speaker 3: the police, you know, I don't support the actions of
Speaker 3: the bad actions of the police, but I support the
Speaker 3: police and their ongoing effort to reform and be the
Speaker 3: best that they can. That we need firemen, we need teachers,
Speaker 3: we need police. How can one strike that balance in
Speaker 3: the modern age? That's a great question.
Speaker 1: And before I say anything, I will say that I
Speaker 1: can only speak as Rams as an individual who has
Speaker 1: walked through life.
Speaker 2: Sure, a lot of folks will look.
Speaker 1: At me and say, well, you're on the radio, or
Speaker 1: you're on TV, or you're on this or that or
Speaker 1: the other, and so you must know better than everyone else.
Speaker 1: And that's never the case for anyone. You know, it
Speaker 1: could be the highest I mean, we've seen the President
Speaker 1: of the United States try to guess the cure for
Speaker 1: coronavirus during the press conference. Yeah, so, you know, just
Speaker 1: because a person that has, you know, a platform, doesn't
Speaker 1: mean they know all the answers. But the person Ramses
Speaker 1: will certainly share.
Speaker 2: My thinking is.
Speaker 1: That obviously, to say black lives matter is to say
Speaker 1: a mouthful, because there are some people who are gonna
Speaker 1: roll their eyes and say, oh my god, here we
Speaker 1: go again.
Speaker 2: You know, hear these black people.
Speaker 1: They want to whatever and they're they're clearly the criminals.
Speaker 1: Why are they you know? And they have this again disconnected.
Speaker 2: Reality.
Speaker 1: You know that they live in a whole different world
Speaker 1: where the police represent something entirely different. The police are
Speaker 1: there to protect you. Again, for a person like me, historically,
Speaker 1: the police. I've never called the police in my life.
Speaker 1: I don't think I.
Speaker 2: Ever would, you know, why would I do that? You know,
Speaker 2: you know, you know.
Speaker 1: But to say that you support the police is to
Speaker 1: say that. I think it's it's it's a way of
Speaker 1: admitting that the police. And I know this might not
Speaker 1: be true, but hear me out. Let me start here. Then,
Speaker 1: to say I support black people, I think that that's
Speaker 1: to say that In saying that, what you're saying is
Speaker 1: that there is a there's something that's not one hundred
Speaker 1: percent there, and they require support and I stand with them.
Speaker 1: I understand their plight or I see some of the optics.
Speaker 1: And when I can, in a conversation or in a
Speaker 1: public manner or whatever, when I can offer support to
Speaker 1: their plight or mention their cause or whatever, I.
Speaker 2: Will do so.
Speaker 1: And support is something that is like the gay community,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, they have issues with respect
Speaker 1: to representation, discrimination, et cetera. And therefore their journey requires
Speaker 1: and that requires as a strong word, but requires support,
Speaker 1: you know, or it could use support. If you were
Speaker 1: to lend support to it, then it would benefit them
Speaker 1: and would help them on their plight. Yes, you know,
Speaker 1: breast cancer, you know, like these sorts of things where
Speaker 1: people are kind of at a disadvantage, or they're starting
Speaker 1: a little bit behind, you know, you know, they didn't
Speaker 1: get the same sort of you know, whatever, they have resources,
Speaker 1: et cetera. To say I support the police would be
Speaker 1: to suggest in a similar manner that.
Speaker 2: The police are.
Speaker 1: Lacking in some way, the police are discriminated against the police,
Speaker 1: are you know, something like that. They're they're having some
Speaker 1: sort of hardship and they require our support. And for me,
Speaker 1: as I stated the system, not the human beings, but
Speaker 1: the system, it is understood that the system is doing
Speaker 1: exactly what it was designed to do. The word patrol
Speaker 1: comes from slave patrol. It was designed to search for
Speaker 1: runaway slaves. And so when I hear patrol car or
Speaker 1: you know, patrol officer, these sorts of things, there's there's
Speaker 1: the lineage is right there in the word that's that's
Speaker 1: something you know, to those listening, Google is free. You're
Speaker 1: are the welcome to look that up, you know, but
Speaker 1: you can see that, you know, policing obviously has been
Speaker 1: around a lot longer than slavery. But patrolling is something
Speaker 1: that has come about, at least in this country in
Speaker 1: the way that we understand it.
Speaker 2: It originated with slave patrols.
Speaker 1: And as a way of separating, you know, people and
Speaker 1: keeping people.
Speaker 2: Protecting wealth.
Speaker 1: And if you don't know what I'm talking about, again,
Speaker 1: google breadlining, watch any video and you'll you'll understand why
Speaker 1: ghettos exist, Why you know, ghettos are more heavily patrolled,
Speaker 1: and and and so forth. You'll understand, you know, if
Speaker 1: you want to go all the way down that rabbit hole.
Speaker 1: These are things. These are matters of public record. These
Speaker 1: are not conspiracy theories or anything. These are things that
Speaker 1: the government has admitted to. You can find out exactly
Speaker 1: how drugs destroyed the black community and that the government
Speaker 1: was behind that, and the police helped that in the
Speaker 1: FBI and so forth, and these communities, black communities and
Speaker 1: brown communities were destroyed over and over again by those things.
Speaker 1: And then mass incarceration, where you know, you take those
Speaker 1: people who obviously have an entrepreneurial spirit, use the only
Speaker 1: means of economic empowerment available to them that was given
Speaker 1: to them.
Speaker 2: By the government.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then in prison for it at much longer
Speaker 1: sentences than you know. They're white counterparts who did the
Speaker 1: same sorts of crimes and so forth. So you know,
Speaker 1: back to your question, I think that the way that
Speaker 1: I would say that for me, this is not for you,
Speaker 1: and this is not for a lot of.
Speaker 2: People, but for me, it starts with what I said,
Speaker 2: defund the police.
Speaker 1: The reason I say that, and I say that knowing
Speaker 1: that it's an alarming thing to say, but it's not.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying abolish the police. There are some people
Speaker 1: who say that, I'm not saying. I disagree with those people,
Speaker 1: but I understand what they're saying. They're saying something that's
Speaker 1: alarming so that people will look behind or look at
Speaker 1: what they're saying and examine it critically. Everyone on some
Speaker 1: level knows that we need institutions that protect us from criminals.
Speaker 1: The criminals will exist. They come in every color, they
Speaker 1: come from every background. That's just a fact of life.
Speaker 1: But what we have right now does not work for everyone.
Speaker 1: And so when a person says, defund the police, or
Speaker 1: in this case, when I'm saying defund the police, what
Speaker 1: I mean is I'm saying, let's examine what policing is like,
Speaker 1: not on a whole, because obviously the police will be
Speaker 1: able to stand up and say, well, we get out
Speaker 1: there and we fight through, we have a tough job,
Speaker 1: and you know, we put our lives on the line,
Speaker 1: and all those things are true. But beyond the glitz
Speaker 1: and the polish, we recognize that will overwhelmingly and disproportionately
Speaker 1: this has a negative effect on these specific communities and
Speaker 1: not so much on this community. And when we look
Speaker 1: at defunding the police, what we're really looking at is, well,
Speaker 1: how can we best support a society where everyone has
Speaker 1: is able to benefit from it.
Speaker 2: How can we The police's.
Speaker 1: Objective is to minimize crime. I think that's pretty much
Speaker 1: what everyone would say.
Speaker 3: Yes, well, I think we would say that the community's idea, Well,
Speaker 3: it's what I would.
Speaker 1: Say, you know, let's let's minimize crime. I know we
Speaker 1: can't eliminate it, but let's minimize crime, So I'll say it.
Speaker 3: That's what we would I think we would say that
Speaker 3: the societal agreement is right but but in practice there's been.
Speaker 2: Different different definitions of.
Speaker 1: Course, of course, but for for this one, I'll say
Speaker 1: it so that you don't have to because, okay, so
Speaker 1: the police objective is to minimize crime. Well, by defunding
Speaker 1: the police and reallocating the fiscal resources into programs that
Speaker 1: will attack the root of the problem, what we can
Speaker 1: do is minimize crime.
Speaker 3: Here's a question I have for you, though, sure, especially
Speaker 3: in this era where we are deficit spending out the wazoo.
Speaker 3: You know, we're just we're just printing money right now
Speaker 3: as a country to spend money for those other social programs.
Speaker 3: Why does it have to come out of the pocket.
Speaker 2: Of the police.
Speaker 1: Well, there's a that's another great question. What we've seen
Speaker 1: in the past, since the we'll call it the mid nineties,
Speaker 1: is the militarization of the police.
Speaker 2: Of the United States of America.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is why when the police show up when
Speaker 1: I'm walking with my five year old's hand in my
Speaker 1: hand and my fourteen year old his hand in my hand,
Speaker 1: and we are protesting the murder of Breonna Taylor while
Speaker 1: she was sleeping in her bed, the police standing on
Speaker 1: the sides of the road, you know, lining our path
Speaker 1: on this protest looked like they're ready for war, as
Speaker 1: opposed to this image that they tried to teach me
Speaker 1: during the DARE program of your friendly neighborhood police officer.
Speaker 1: Completely unnecessary, you know, for them to have three and
Speaker 1: four murder weapons on their person. There was a chance
Speaker 1: that that people were shouting, which I love and I'll
Speaker 1: carry it with me forever. The chant goes, there's no
Speaker 1: riot here, Why are you and riot gear? There's no
Speaker 1: riot here? Why are you and riot gear? And forgive
Speaker 1: me for being emotional, but it really I think that
Speaker 1: it really speaks to this idea that.
Speaker 2: They think.
Speaker 1: It's fear based. And I know that, and I know
Speaker 1: that they're people, and people are susceptible to fear, and
Speaker 1: that's the unfortunate thing. But they have weapons, and they
Speaker 1: have all this stuff, you know, and we're I'm there
Speaker 1: with children. One of my sons has spina biffity, the
Speaker 1: other one is six. We can't run, We can't even
Speaker 1: outrun you, you know what I mean. That's why I'm
Speaker 1: not going to leave my babies here. You know, So
Speaker 1: what what is this for?
Speaker 3: Are you?
Speaker 1: Are you trying to intimidate my children like you know,
Speaker 1: we're here because someone dies and we need to change
Speaker 1: the system, and you're here defending it with all of
Speaker 1: this kit.
Speaker 2: Add to that.
Speaker 1: Tanks, uh, you know, all the all the machinery that
Speaker 1: was decommissioned after the Gulf War and Desert Storm and
Speaker 1: all that stuff. A lot of that was able to
Speaker 1: be repurposed and purchased by you know, local municipalities for
Speaker 1: their their police departments. Yeah, and you know there's there's
Speaker 1: people who have to sell that stuff, repurpose it. And
Speaker 1: how do you sell something like that to a city
Speaker 1: like Phoenix, where if we need there's a national guard,
Speaker 1: you know, but the you know, so you sell them fear,
Speaker 1: you know. And and the police are people just like
Speaker 1: anyone else. There's a person that makes a decision that says, well,
Speaker 1: you know what, if bad turns the worse, we better
Speaker 1: have this. And you know, and there's this this mentality
Speaker 1: that you know, we need to protect ourselves from them,
Speaker 1: as opposed to we need to protect them.
Speaker 2: Yeah and so.
Speaker 3: And you know, I'm not an expert on this, of course,
Speaker 3: but I couldn't agree more that we should demilitarize the police. Sure,
Speaker 3: And I think there's these community I've been just reading
Speaker 3: and hearing about a little bit like community based policing initiatives,
Speaker 3: where we want to try to get police officers actually
Speaker 3: live in the communities that they police, you know, have
Speaker 3: a house because this kind of thing.
Speaker 2: It's a lot harder.
Speaker 3: To dehumanize somebody if you're actually living amongst them, you know,
Speaker 3: if you see each other exactly exactly.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So you know, I couldn't agree with you more on
Speaker 3: all those reforms, and I couldn't agree with you more
Speaker 3: when you talk about fear. But I think that's driving
Speaker 3: both sides, you know, I think so. One of my
Speaker 3: good friends, one of my employees, is married to a
Speaker 3: police officer. I have a number of friends that are
Speaker 3: police officers. You know, they hear defund and and it's
Speaker 3: natural that someone's like, well, you know, the police Demartment's
Speaker 3: my livelihood, and you know, that's my pension, that's my
Speaker 3: you know, that's where I go to work. And I'm
Speaker 3: you know, people would think I'm a good person. You know,
Speaker 3: I'm in it for the right reasons as a police officer,
Speaker 3: and I'm friends with some of these folks.
Speaker 2: And it's hard because I I.
Speaker 3: Understand why when when that's the leading point, the defund
Speaker 3: the police as the slogan. It's a hard one, you know,
Speaker 3: because it also I don't think people like admitting that
Speaker 3: they're being made to feel afraid. I don't know why,
Speaker 3: you know, nobody's we feel afraid. We act, we have
Speaker 3: a lot of certainly reactions from when we're afraid, but
Speaker 3: we don't like admitting it, you know. But that I
Speaker 3: think that's uh, you hit.
Speaker 2: It exactly, that.
Speaker 3: That slogan strikes fear into the heart of a lot
Speaker 3: of other folks, and that's where we're you know, struggling
Speaker 3: to unite.
Speaker 1: So my thoughts, again, we're looking back on twenty twenty,
Speaker 1: my thoughts are, yeah, you know, I I have I
Speaker 1: wouldn't say I'm like, well, I will say I'm a
Speaker 1: pretty shrewd negotiator. Okay, But you don't have to be
Speaker 1: a shrewd negotiator to understand this. I think everyone understands
Speaker 1: this on some level. If I have a car that
Speaker 1: I want to sell, and I want nine thousand dollars
Speaker 1: for the car, I'll list the car for ten thousand dollars. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: someone else will offer me eight thousand dollars. I'll counter
Speaker 1: offer with nine thousand dollars, they'll agree, we'll shake hands,
Speaker 1: and I sell the car for nine thousand dollars. But
Speaker 1: on some level they may or may not. But I'm
Speaker 1: for this example, they may know that I probably have
Speaker 1: some mo room because it's such an expensive it's such
Speaker 1: a tall order, ten thousand dollars, it's so much money,
Speaker 1: So he might have some wiggle room there. And on
Speaker 1: some order, on some level, I know that if they're
Speaker 1: offering me eight thousand dollars, but they're looking at this car,
Speaker 1: that they're prepared to spend perhaps a little bit more.
Speaker 1: They just want to save as much of this money
Speaker 1: as they can, Okay, And so this tall order becomes
Speaker 1: a starting point. And so to take that and to
Speaker 1: apply to what we're talking about here, this idea of
Speaker 1: defund the police is really a place to get us
Speaker 1: to look at how policing is done critically. Let's look
Speaker 1: at it like it's not working. Let's all look at
Speaker 1: it like it's not working for everyone. Yeah, okay, Because
Speaker 1: if you look at it like it's working for everyone,
Speaker 1: then of course defund what.
Speaker 2: Are you talking about. Let's get them more money.
Speaker 1: Let's give them all of our money, you know, why
Speaker 1: not you know, yeah, I'm not My house has you know,
Speaker 1: not been burglarized, So let's give them all the money
Speaker 1: we can.
Speaker 2: And that's the view from that porch. I love that example.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 3: I'm going to use that. I can't claim ownership, but
Speaker 3: I can't claim usage of its fine. It's been introduced
Speaker 3: to me today. So I'll tell you yea, if I
Speaker 3: take anything else from twenty twenty.
Speaker 2: It'll be that.
Speaker 1: But you know, for the police to say, well, you know,
Speaker 1: you know, we can't do that, or we don't want
Speaker 1: to do that, or that, what about my pension or
Speaker 1: this is what I've committed my ad to or whatever,
Speaker 1: you know, then at least we're having now a back
Speaker 1: and forth, Well, why do you want to defund the police? Well,
Speaker 1: because the police are not ever going to be able
Speaker 1: to respond to these types of incidents. For these type
Speaker 1: of incidents, no one should show up with a you know,
Speaker 1: there was a I foresee that.
Speaker 3: That's why I think it's become commonplace to make a
Speaker 3: statement like that the police are never.
Speaker 2: Going to be able to do this. Yeah I know,
Speaker 2: but I'm I'm just saying that.
Speaker 3: That's like they I think I think those types of Okay,
Speaker 3: so you might not say that to a police officer.
Speaker 3: We just said that here. But people are just like
Speaker 3: you're a shrewd negotiator. People are like very subconsciously good
Speaker 3: at picking up on sentiment, you know, or an idea.
Speaker 3: And I think, I think if that's the idea that
Speaker 3: you know, the police are incapable of being reformed as
Speaker 3: an institution, not as individuals.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: I know that you've clarified that a number of times.
Speaker 3: One of the challenges is institutions are made up of individuals.
Speaker 2: You know, and.
Speaker 3: We need to stop anyone who says the black community
Speaker 3: is just never gonna what fill in the blank.
Speaker 2: You can't say something like that.
Speaker 3: That's human beings they're capable of, you know, you can't
Speaker 3: you can't label folks.
Speaker 2: Let me let me offer this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm sure that many of the many police
Speaker 1: officers will admit they have a very tough job.
Speaker 2: They have a lot of things that they have to
Speaker 2: be prepared for. They have a lot of.
Speaker 1: Things that they have to be able to respond to.
Speaker 1: Oftentimes they don't know what it is that they're going
Speaker 1: to respond to. But before anything else, above all else.
Speaker 1: It's like in the military, you're a basic rifleman before anything.
Speaker 1: You can be a military photographer, but they will teach
Speaker 1: you how to shoot that gun before anything else. You
Speaker 1: are a crime fighter, right, will teach you how to
Speaker 1: shoot that gun.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: So in rethinking how policing is done from the beginning,
Speaker 1: what you do is you recognize those self admitted complaints.
Speaker 1: You know, the police officer, you can you can check
Speaker 1: it out. You know, if you're listening to my voice,
Speaker 1: you can check this out, which, by the way, if
Speaker 1: you're just dotting in a civic cipher. My guest today
Speaker 1: is Ian Basquez, and we're talking that we're recapping twenty twenty.
Speaker 1: Of course i'my host Rams's job. But anyway, you know,
Speaker 1: if we're asking these folks to do all of these
Speaker 1: things and do them well and never make a mistake,
Speaker 1: and we see that there's this this story is littered
Speaker 1: with mistakes, and then you see the corruption come in
Speaker 1: a play where they try to cover up the mistakes.
Speaker 1: I saw a video on the other day where a
Speaker 1: police officer was bragging. I could show it to you,
Speaker 1: you know when we're off the air. But police officer
Speaker 1: was bragging. He was in Boston, he was bragging to
Speaker 1: one of his other officers about how he had run
Speaker 1: his car into some of the protesters and the and
Speaker 1: the officer pushed him away and covered up his body.
Speaker 2: Cameras like, oh, the camera's on. And then and then.
Speaker 1: He goes back and he's like, oh, yeah, well, you know,
Speaker 1: I didn't actually run anyone over. And then somehow, somehow
Speaker 1: the video got released, and you know, you can see that,
Speaker 1: and there's plenty of examples of this, and obviously there's
Speaker 1: well documented examples, but there's also this this. You know,
Speaker 1: they really watch each other's back, you know that that
Speaker 1: that the blue line really protects itself, you know, and
Speaker 1: this is how you can kind of paint them with
Speaker 1: broad strokes because you know, like with any other job,
Speaker 1: if there's one person who's bringing down the whole team,
Speaker 1: that person gets fired. Everyone you know does it well.
Speaker 3: And that's one of the things that I've you talked
Speaker 3: about twenty twenty like lessons learned, so to speak. It's
Speaker 3: it's really hit home for me that that is every
Speaker 3: human institution. So every human institution will circle the wagons
Speaker 3: to protect itself, whether it be the Catholic Church or
Speaker 3: the police on harmon fire, department, you know, local government,
Speaker 3: and it's tough, but we have to when there.
Speaker 1: Is an opportunity to call it out, to change it,
Speaker 1: to reform it, and when it is a matter of
Speaker 1: life and death, when it has existed in one form
Speaker 1: or another for hundreds of years oppressing one type of
Speaker 1: person or one type of human specifically, when it it's time.
Speaker 2: Has run its course, which a lot of folks.
Speaker 1: Recognized was the Civil Rights movement, a lot of folks
Speaker 1: recognized was the Black Lives Matter movement when that started
Speaker 1: in twenty twelve, and a lot of folks were, you know,
Speaker 1: mobilized upon the death of George Floyd. And maybe there's
Speaker 1: another thing in the future. Maybe this is kind of
Speaker 1: you know, the tipping point after you know, the election,
Speaker 1: and you know, when this new administration takes office, we'll
Speaker 1: see what happens there. But if we can change something,
Speaker 1: then I think it is incumbent upon us to try
Speaker 1: to do so. And then we moved to the next
Speaker 1: thing and the next thing, because obviously no one wants
Speaker 1: any of these horrible things to happen to anyone. But
Speaker 1: for those of us who are Americans, you know, a
Speaker 1: person like me born in California, that's just as America
Speaker 1: as Virginia, and you know, South Dakota and you know
Speaker 1: all those other places considers themselves American. You know, I
Speaker 1: watched these American movies and you know at the end,
Speaker 1: when you know the flags flying high, that sense of pride.
Speaker 1: You know, my father was in the Air Force. You know,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm just as American as anyone else.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, to then see the flag sort of repurposed to
Speaker 1: represent what I believe to be the worst ideas, just
Speaker 1: one part of American divisive, you know, And I see
Speaker 1: the flag and now it strikes fear. It's like, oh man,
Speaker 1: this is a wrong street. I shouldn't be here.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: That lets me know that you.
Speaker 1: Know, there's a there's a very very there's two different Americas.
Speaker 1: You know, maybe more, but really there's two that I'm seeing.
Speaker 1: And you know, you said it best at the beginning
Speaker 1: of this conversation, And what needs to happen is we
Speaker 1: really need to sit down and have a conversation. And
Speaker 1: so to to finish what I was saying is, you
Speaker 1: know these tall orders.
Speaker 2: Who knows if.
Speaker 1: We'll ever see police fully defunded to the degree where
Speaker 1: other social programs are implemented, and housing, you know, is addressed,
Speaker 1: and and economic disadvantages are are addressed, and and and
Speaker 1: so forth and so on, and there's after school programs,
Speaker 1: and there's you know, support systems in place to kind
Speaker 1: of change communities, and you know, they're they're given time
Speaker 1: to heal and to to rebound, and we'll put together
Speaker 1: a twenty year program to see how well it works.
Speaker 1: And this, you know, this sort of thing, and that
Speaker 1: money come from the oppressors, the quote unquote oppressors to
Speaker 1: where they are, their ability to oppress is limited, and
Speaker 1: their ability to thrive is increased.
Speaker 2: You know. Yeah, I just I think, don't forget that.
Speaker 3: I think some of these folks themselves can be victimized
Speaker 3: by the system that I know. That might be like
Speaker 3: hard Tobly, but someone might go into the police and say,
Speaker 3: you know, I really want to do good, and then
Speaker 3: you come into the institution and what you find is
Speaker 3: the institution changes you more than you change.
Speaker 1: I want to, I want to. I want to cite
Speaker 1: an example. I haven't been able to share this yet.
Speaker 1: But I'm a person who leads with love. I'm a
Speaker 1: human first above all else. But I also live in
Speaker 1: the real world and I deal with all the things
Speaker 1: that come with that.
Speaker 2: And so.
Speaker 1: There's a police officer I know. His name is Kevin Gilliland, uh,
Speaker 1: and he's not my best friend. So what I'm gonna
Speaker 1: say hopefully doesn't get him in trouble with his fellow officers.
Speaker 1: I know there's probably police listen that will know who
Speaker 1: I'm talking about. He's a sheriff's officer, excellent human being,
Speaker 1: excellent human being, a good man. I've been able to
Speaker 1: work with him a few times over the years, and
Speaker 1: he's the person that I have in mind every time
Speaker 1: I speak about the police, because I know that he
Speaker 1: is a human be has five kids, he is married,
Speaker 1: he's a good man. I used to work at a
Speaker 1: different radio station and he used to tune in and
Speaker 1: listen to me. When I had a chance, I would
Speaker 1: give him tickets so he could take his daughter to
Speaker 1: concerts and things like the police officer, you know, And
Speaker 1: we were able to work some events together, just kind
Speaker 1: of coincidentally, and he would talk to me about some
Speaker 1: of the things that he saw. He would ask me
Speaker 1: questions much in the same way that you would ask questions,
Speaker 1: not because he thought of me as some wise person
Speaker 1: because I don't profess to be, but because he considered
Speaker 1: me a person that he could talk to like.
Speaker 2: A friend or a neighbor.
Speaker 1: And in those conversations, I was able to learn who
Speaker 1: he was. And all throughout twenty twenty, at least for me,
Speaker 1: when all of these things started to come out into
Speaker 1: the forefront again, because you know, you got to remember,
Speaker 1: police killings have been happening in twenty twelve is when
Speaker 1: they started Black Lives Matter, because there were so many police.
Speaker 2: Killings before that for the year leading up to it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so you know, and then obviously it's just
Speaker 1: been recorded. This has always been the story, at least
Speaker 1: for black folks. But I recognize that you can be
Speaker 1: a good man and be a part of a system
Speaker 1: that is not perfect. And when it comes time to
Speaker 1: challenge an imperfect system, it in order to ensure it's survival,
Speaker 1: it will resist that, you know. And the one thing
Speaker 1: that I learned in my lifetime is that a person
Speaker 1: is smart.
Speaker 2: A person is brilliant.
Speaker 1: You know, we're the smartest things in the universe that
Speaker 1: we know of, but people are just about the dumbest
Speaker 1: things in people are dumb. A person is smart people
Speaker 1: are dumb in mass you know. And you know, there's
Speaker 1: this such thing as a mob mentality group into you know,
Speaker 1: these sorts of things where you know, Democrats don't have
Speaker 1: it all right, Yeah, but I vote Democrat every time.
Speaker 1: Republicans don't have it all right. But some people who
Speaker 1: would believe one thing, that there's one thing that the
Speaker 1: Republican Party stands on and that's their thing, they have
Speaker 1: to vote Republican, even though the rest of that completely
Speaker 1: flies in the face of what they actually believe.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's funny though, and I guess it depends on
Speaker 3: how you look at it. If you're on a trivia show,
Speaker 3: you know, remember that Who Wants to Be a Millionaire
Speaker 3: show that the number one way to get the question
Speaker 3: right was pulled the audience, you know. Yeah, that worked
Speaker 3: way more than reducing the other options and taking a
Speaker 3: good guess and all that other stuff. So people in
Speaker 3: like I always say, this human being is creation's most
Speaker 3: beautiful and most ugly creature. You know, we do some
Speaker 3: of the most amazing, artistic, beautiful things, and we do
Speaker 3: some of the ugliest tacks. And it's hard to reconcile
Speaker 3: the fact that we are both of those things all
Speaker 3: in one package.
Speaker 1: Well, we're just going to have to figure out a
Speaker 1: way to do it. But I think that we can
Speaker 1: and if twenty twenty has taught us anything, that I
Speaker 1: think is that we can learn and we can grow.
Speaker 1: But that's about all the time that we have for
Speaker 1: today's episode. Thank you Ian Basquez for sitting with me
Speaker 1: on Civic Cipher. Once again, I'm your host, Ramsy's job
Speaker 1: and if you want to support the show, please visit
Speaker 1: civiccipher dot com. You can donate, you can submit questions
Speaker 1: and topics, and of course follow all of our social
Speaker 1: media and we will check you out next week, same time,
Speaker 1: same channel, right here on Civic Cipher. Until then, take
Speaker 1: care of yourselves.