WEBVTT - Civic Cipher 122620 ft. Ramses Ja & Ian Vasquez 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:04.040 Welcome to another episode of Civic Cipher. I am your host, 0:00:04.200 --> 0:00:07.000 ramses Jah, and I want to send a big shout 0:00:07.000 --> 0:00:11.080 out to q Ward, who is not with us today. 0:00:11.320 --> 0:00:11.760 He is. 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:17.480 Nursing himself back to health. All is well in his world. 0:00:17.560 --> 0:00:22.520 But we have something that I think is even more 0:00:22.520 --> 0:00:27.840 appropriate for today. As you know, this is our last 0:00:28.200 --> 0:00:36.640 episode of twenty twenty, a year that has affected pretty 0:00:36.680 --> 0:00:39.880 much all of us in one way or another and 0:00:40.200 --> 0:00:42.280 definitely one that we're all going to remember for the 0:00:42.320 --> 0:00:47.720 rest of our lives. For some it's changed us, you know, forever. 0:00:48.080 --> 0:00:50.040 For some of us, it's made us very paranoid. For 0:00:50.080 --> 0:00:53.680 some of us, it's made us, you know, see the 0:00:53.680 --> 0:00:56.600 world through a different lens, or a few different lenses. 0:00:59.040 --> 0:01:04.320 But in order to mark this show, our last show 0:01:04.319 --> 0:01:08.319 of twenty twenty, I wanted to do a bit of 0:01:08.319 --> 0:01:13.200 a recap, just to kind of flesh out some of 0:01:13.240 --> 0:01:19.160 the things that we may have learned. And it occurred 0:01:19.160 --> 0:01:25.000 to me that having a conversation with someone who perhaps 0:01:25.080 --> 0:01:29.399 doesn't live in the same space as me, a black 0:01:29.440 --> 0:01:33.280 man thirty eight years old watching the events of twenty 0:01:33.319 --> 0:01:38.640 twenty unfold around him, viewing the events of twenty twenty 0:01:38.840 --> 0:01:43.040 through someone else's lens, someone I consider to be an 0:01:43.120 --> 0:01:49.240 ally of black people and humans, you know, but black people. 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:54.560 We've had conversations before, and I understand this man's heart. 0:01:55.200 --> 0:01:57.360 I understand him to be a reasonable man, a thinker, 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:04.080 not easily given to you know, paranoia and some of 0:02:04.120 --> 0:02:06.200 the things that a lot of folks have been very 0:02:06.200 --> 0:02:10.440 susceptible to this past year, with you know, an election 0:02:10.560 --> 0:02:14.320 really dividing the country very deeply in some parts of 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:19.120 the country, and self worth. I wanted to see what 0:02:19.440 --> 0:02:22.040 this year looked like through the lens of someone else, 0:02:22.440 --> 0:02:25.400 someone who's walked a different path, someone who may have 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:34.160 drawn different conclusions and arrived at different outcomes, because there's 0:02:34.160 --> 0:02:36.520 still a little bit more learning left to do, and 0:02:36.840 --> 0:02:41.200 I would love to start off twenty twenty one just 0:02:41.400 --> 0:02:45.960 knowing what, if any progress we have made in terms 0:02:46.000 --> 0:02:52.200 of growth as humans. And the best way to do 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:58.440 that is to have a conversation with folks and find 0:02:58.440 --> 0:03:01.520 out how the world feels to them, and how how 0:03:01.840 --> 0:03:04.160 the events have felt to them, and and kind of 0:03:04.200 --> 0:03:09.960 examined their growth. And so today I'm joined by a 0:03:10.000 --> 0:03:17.840 friend of mine, Ian Basquez. How you doing, brother, good, good, good, Okay? 0:03:18.000 --> 0:03:24.720 And to be fair, Ian is it's sort of a 0:03:24.760 --> 0:03:27.919 neighbor of mine. You know, our kids play together and 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:34.640 we've had a number of conversations. But I don't want 0:03:34.920 --> 0:03:39.920 anyone to take this the wrong way. But this interview 0:03:40.000 --> 0:03:47.240 happened to come together because of your normal normalness is 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:50.080 not the right way to say it. But but you 0:03:50.080 --> 0:03:53.120 don't hold an elected position. You're not a police officer. 0:03:53.200 --> 0:03:55.480 You're not, from what I understand, not an act of 0:03:55.680 --> 0:03:59.400 you know, these things that would really entrench you firmly 0:03:59.440 --> 0:04:02.280 into a specific belief system or anything like that. You're 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:05.280 a person who has seen the events of the world 0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:14.480 unfold and a person who I believe has empathy and 0:04:14.600 --> 0:04:19.960 kindness at the core of his being. Our children play together, 0:04:21.920 --> 0:04:24.240 and so I'm able to see Ian as a father 0:04:25.800 --> 0:04:28.320 interact with not only his son, but with my son. 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:34.800 And my son obviously is black, and your son could 0:04:34.920 --> 0:04:36.520 very easily pass for white with. 0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:38.880 The blonde hair and the light eyes and everything like this, 0:04:38.960 --> 0:04:39.480 and so. 0:04:41.520 --> 0:04:48.200 You know, walking that path, I felt like you'd be 0:04:48.240 --> 0:04:51.000 perfect for this, just to kind of see some of 0:04:51.040 --> 0:04:52.240 the things that you may have learned. 0:04:52.600 --> 0:04:52.880 Now. 0:04:53.040 --> 0:04:54.920 I want to also get a little bit of a 0:04:54.960 --> 0:04:57.440 background on you. So my understanding is that you work 0:04:58.040 --> 0:05:00.240 in it consulting. Give me a little bit about out 0:05:00.640 --> 0:05:03.120 what that is and what your day to day is 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:04.000 in the world. 0:05:04.440 --> 0:05:07.760 Sure, Well, about seven years ago I started my own 0:05:07.800 --> 0:05:10.760 consulting practice. At first, I was, you know, on my own, 0:05:10.839 --> 0:05:13.080 and over the course of that time, I've hired a 0:05:13.120 --> 0:05:15.880 few employees and I now have a little niche consulting 0:05:15.920 --> 0:05:19.560 practice that I can kind of own and operate a 0:05:19.640 --> 0:05:26.320 few employees, and we help companies with cloud based solutions, 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:31.279 you know, help them grow and basically implement technology that 0:05:31.760 --> 0:05:33.000 you know, might be a little bit tough for them 0:05:33.000 --> 0:05:34.080 to understand internally. 0:05:34.200 --> 0:05:34.919 We help out with that. 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:44.360 But the thing that I thought was relevant is as 0:05:44.400 --> 0:05:48.520 a business owner, as someone who started a business himself 0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:51.320 and has grown it to now where you have employees. 0:05:54.480 --> 0:05:59.480 A disconnect, at least for me, is that I have 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:02.560 a tended see to believe that those types of people 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:08.680 are oftentimes only motivated by money, and they fail to 0:06:08.760 --> 0:06:17.599 consider the human implications or the human cost of their 0:06:17.640 --> 0:06:25.200 belief system, their their voting records, et cetera. And in 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:26.960 my dealings with you, I've learned that. 0:06:28.960 --> 0:06:30.520 I may have been. 0:06:31.960 --> 0:06:35.480 Painting with broad strokes in terms of my opinions of 0:06:35.480 --> 0:06:40.160 folks who are business owners. Now, you know, I recognize 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:42.760 that lots of people start businesses and everyone has to 0:06:42.800 --> 0:06:48.920 participate in and this capitalistic society. That's how you know, 0:06:49.120 --> 0:06:55.080 the money works. But to know that, you know, a 0:06:55.120 --> 0:06:58.080 person like you has achieved a degree of success, you 0:06:58.160 --> 0:07:02.200 have a degree of mobility from where I sit in 0:07:02.240 --> 0:07:06.640 your life. To also know that there's a part of 0:07:06.680 --> 0:07:10.320 you that really will stop to consider what the world 0:07:10.440 --> 0:07:12.400 must feel like to other people who don't have the 0:07:12.440 --> 0:07:19.640 same mobility, it really allowed me to recognize that well, 0:07:19.680 --> 0:07:25.200 you know, most of us really understand and recognize that 0:07:25.240 --> 0:07:29.280 we're humans first, and you know, very few of us 0:07:29.280 --> 0:07:30.840 are able to get to the point where we're able 0:07:30.840 --> 0:07:33.240 to start our own businesses and you know, move around 0:07:33.280 --> 0:07:38.800 like that. Even fewer still are able to carry experiences 0:07:38.880 --> 0:07:40.880 like you know, I always share my story on the 0:07:40.880 --> 0:07:42.920 show that you know, I was born in Compton, California, 0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:46.960 had a really rough upbringing, and you know, queue the 0:07:46.960 --> 0:07:51.440 same thing from Detroit. You know, grew up very poor 0:07:52.280 --> 0:07:55.200 in a city that's just crumbled all around him throughout 0:07:55.200 --> 0:07:57.480 his life. Very few of us are able to take 0:07:57.560 --> 0:08:01.200 those type of experiences and the empathy and the understanding 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:03.640 that the world is not always a kind place into 0:08:03.680 --> 0:08:05.680 a place where you're able to, you know, start a 0:08:05.720 --> 0:08:14.240 business and you know, function as a form of economic 0:08:14.280 --> 0:08:20.760 empowerment to people who might share those same views. I 0:08:20.800 --> 0:08:24.320 just thought it was really interesting to see the way 0:08:24.360 --> 0:08:29.360 that you have retained or maybe you never lost, that 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:32.120 human element, like, well, I'm a man first, I'm a man. 0:08:32.160 --> 0:08:33.520 I'm a man who loves his family. 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:36.640 I live in the same world with other folks, and 0:08:37.200 --> 0:08:39.560 I recognize that, you know, obviously there's people that are 0:08:39.559 --> 0:08:40.920 going to do better, there's people that are going to 0:08:40.960 --> 0:08:45.680 do worse. But I'm not going to go into this where, hey, 0:08:45.720 --> 0:08:47.760 this whole thing is about me, everyone else is on 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:50.760 their own, because I think that you recognize on some 0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:53.600 level that it just doesn't work that way. And so 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:56.640 I was always very appreciative of, you know, the depth 0:08:56.679 --> 0:08:58.320 of the conversations that we were able to have. And 0:08:58.360 --> 0:09:03.480 so I appreciate you coming on this show and you know, 0:09:03.600 --> 0:09:06.000 helping out and sharing your insight and so. 0:09:07.559 --> 0:09:10.000 Well, let me say that, yeah, thank you, Yeah, I 0:09:10.040 --> 0:09:14.160 appreciate the invitation. It's really an honor. As you know, 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:15.760 I've mentioned you, I listened to a couple of your 0:09:16.040 --> 0:09:17.640 earlier shows, not all of that, but. 0:09:19.320 --> 0:09:20.800 I just think it's a wonderful thing you're doing. 0:09:20.840 --> 0:09:22.400 I'm really honored that you would have asked me to 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:24.439 be here part of it, and I'm really honored by 0:09:24.480 --> 0:09:25.839 the comments that you made about. 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:30.200 You know, I don't know, just just being a decent 0:09:30.280 --> 0:09:30.680 human being. 0:09:30.760 --> 0:09:33.319 I appreciate that, and coming from you, that really means 0:09:33.360 --> 0:09:35.120 a lot, because I think the same thing back at you. 0:09:35.280 --> 0:09:36.120 Well, I appreciate that. 0:09:37.200 --> 0:09:43.280 So you know, I know that this year has had 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:48.560 a lot of crazy stuff happen in it, and I 0:09:48.640 --> 0:09:51.160 know that we're not going to get away from the 0:09:51.160 --> 0:09:54.160 fact that, you know, we've dealt with a pandemic for 0:09:54.520 --> 0:09:55.880 the majority of twenty twenty. 0:09:56.760 --> 0:09:58.200 But I want to. 0:09:58.200 --> 0:10:03.280 Start with perhaps the most pertinent question for this show 0:10:03.320 --> 0:10:09.480 on this platform. What is perhaps the foremost thing that 0:10:09.559 --> 0:10:14.880 you have learned or been made aware of with respect 0:10:14.920 --> 0:10:22.640 to black folks specifically and their plight in twenty twenty. 0:10:25.320 --> 0:10:25.960 Great question. 0:10:27.640 --> 0:10:31.160 I'm to be honest, having a hard time taking away 0:10:31.200 --> 0:10:34.840 and saying here's what I've learned, because I think what 0:10:34.880 --> 0:10:35.839 twenty twenty has made me. 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:39.440 Realize is you know, how little we know? You know 0:10:39.480 --> 0:10:39.920 and are. 0:10:41.600 --> 0:10:43.280 How difficult it is to try to make sense of 0:10:43.320 --> 0:10:48.920 the world sometimes, But I've reflected a lot on it. 0:10:48.920 --> 0:10:56.560 It's just been so in everyone's face. I think I've 0:10:56.640 --> 0:10:59.959 just really reflected on the struggle that it must be 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:03.080 a lot, and some of the conversations that we had, 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:06.000 you know, late at night, as we like bumping into 0:11:06.040 --> 0:11:12.160 each other on the street. I think more so than 0:11:12.200 --> 0:11:15.040 anything else, it's more like a feeling. Like lately, I've 0:11:15.080 --> 0:11:18.600 just been feeling more and I've been feeling the struggle 0:11:19.679 --> 0:11:27.520 amongst people of color, and feeling the struggle amongst people 0:11:27.600 --> 0:11:31.880 who are not of color, and the sense that from 0:11:32.080 --> 0:11:35.960 you know, the view from my front porch, I think 0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:42.480 your typical American really wants to bridge these gaps. You know, 0:11:42.600 --> 0:11:46.640 there's these wedges that seem to be dividing our communities, 0:11:47.080 --> 0:11:51.120 and I tend to believe that we would all do 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:55.920 away with those if, you know, if we could. And 0:11:55.960 --> 0:11:59.520 there seems to be some other elements that are really 0:12:00.800 --> 0:12:03.560 affecting our society, whether it be social media and some 0:12:03.600 --> 0:12:06.640 of the costic effect that that's been having, or the 0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:09.559 media in general, and you know, things being more polarized. 0:12:10.480 --> 0:12:12.559 I really applaud you for what you're doing here, because 0:12:14.400 --> 0:12:16.280 I tend to think one of the challenges we're having 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:19.080 is that a lot of what we hear on the 0:12:19.120 --> 0:12:24.760 news or radio are personalities that are inherently polarized, because 0:12:24.800 --> 0:12:28.520 that seems to get clicks or views or listens when 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:32.160 you're having two people to stake it out really extreme 0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:34.880 positions that just seems to be what people are tuning 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:35.920 in for lately. 0:12:36.000 --> 0:12:36.880 But if you talk with. 0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:41.240 You know, real regular everyday people, most times, most folks 0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:44.720 are pretty reasonable and you know, might fall down on 0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:48.280 different sides of any particular issue. But your question about 0:12:48.320 --> 0:12:53.160 the black community, I think I think I go back 0:12:53.200 --> 0:12:56.439 to like really recognizing that if you haven't walked in 0:12:56.480 --> 0:13:00.520 somebody's shoes, you really only know your own experience, and 0:13:02.040 --> 0:13:05.640 you really have to be sensitive too when somebody else 0:13:05.720 --> 0:13:08.120 is telling you, look, this is how it's looking from 0:13:08.120 --> 0:13:10.680 my front porch, they really need to tune in and listen. 0:13:11.160 --> 0:13:19.160 Sure. One of the things that has really shaped and 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:22.840 really set the tone for twenty twenty is, of course, 0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:28.800 the I'm gonna I'm gonna call it what it is, 0:13:28.840 --> 0:13:34.679 the the public execution of George Floyd, the video that 0:13:34.720 --> 0:13:35.959 we were all able. 0:13:35.720 --> 0:13:39.360 To see a man lose his life for. 0:13:43.240 --> 0:13:46.040 If there was a crime committed, we don't even know 0:13:46.120 --> 0:13:47.920 that he was aware that, you know. I think that 0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:52.240 the issue was that he had a fake dollar and 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:54.480 me having you know, I'm a DJ, so I've worked 0:13:54.520 --> 0:13:58.760 in businesses for cash businesses, so yeah, you end up 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:00.760 with a fake dollar, you know, you don't know until 0:14:00.760 --> 0:14:03.720 you know, because I'm not trained it. But anyway, we 0:14:03.760 --> 0:14:08.960 saw this man lose his life and it very much 0:14:09.440 --> 0:14:12.680 deepened the divide between. 0:14:13.880 --> 0:14:14.240 People. 0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:23.160 You know, as you said, from my porch again a 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:29.880 person that my earliest memories of the police were shaped 0:14:29.960 --> 0:14:34.280 by the LAPD. I was born in nineteen eighty two, 0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:40.680 so when the Rodney King riots were taking place, I 0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:43.520 kind of not kind of I very much understood that. 0:14:44.320 --> 0:14:46.480 At ten years old, I understood that. I'm like, well, yeah, 0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:48.560 the police are the ones that are The police have 0:14:48.640 --> 0:14:52.080 never been the heroes in my story. And I understand 0:14:52.160 --> 0:15:01.080 that from someone else's porch, it looks like in gratitude, dude, 0:15:01.240 --> 0:15:07.160 you know, but you know, well, a lack of appreciation 0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:10.600 for the police. Police getting called to come out and 0:15:10.760 --> 0:15:13.800 help out a situation because the police, if the police 0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:15.640 show up, no one ever called the police. When we 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:18.000 were little, if the police showed up that minute, it 0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:20.000 was time to leave, because the police were there to 0:15:20.040 --> 0:15:23.840 do more harm. And so you know, when I hit 0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:25.480 fourth grade, fifth grade, this is by the time I 0:15:25.520 --> 0:15:28.800 moved to Arizona, and we had like the Dare program 0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:30.200 that the police would come in and they would give 0:15:30.240 --> 0:15:33.040 out toys and candy. It was just a very, very 0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:38.040 different sort of police interaction than I was accustomed to, 0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:46.360 and it certainly didn't help bridge that divide, that disconnect 0:15:46.360 --> 0:15:49.840 that I felt with the police, because I had seen 0:15:49.880 --> 0:15:53.280 the police, like with these eyes, do harm to human beings, 0:15:54.240 --> 0:15:57.680 and I didn't understand what those people had done to 0:15:57.720 --> 0:16:00.280 the police. But I very very much remember what the 0:16:00.280 --> 0:16:04.320 police did to those people. One quick example that just 0:16:04.320 --> 0:16:05.840 comes to mind, and I've shared this on the show 0:16:05.840 --> 0:16:10.840 before for those who listened every week. One thing that 0:16:10.880 --> 0:16:12.760 sticks out of my mind. This was the lapd again 0:16:12.800 --> 0:16:16.040 back in the eighties, but I remember the police pulling 0:16:16.080 --> 0:16:18.440 a man out of a car was a white car 0:16:18.480 --> 0:16:22.480 ininal was eighties, like big box cars. It pulled him 0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:25.440 out of the car and they set him on the 0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:30.440 ground next to the driver's side door, and then they 0:16:30.560 --> 0:16:33.200 took his head and they slammed his head into the 0:16:34.360 --> 0:16:36.480 We're at a red light, sitting there watching this happen. 0:16:36.520 --> 0:16:38.120 So I'm in the back seat looking out the window. 0:16:38.160 --> 0:16:41.760 You know, little kids do that little thing. Yeah, And 0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:45.360 they slammed his head against the car, the door, the 0:16:45.360 --> 0:16:47.760 car door, and it dented the door of the car. 0:16:48.680 --> 0:16:50.960 And then the woman who was driving the car. My 0:16:51.040 --> 0:16:52.280 dad was in the front seat, and there was a 0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:59.920 woman driving the car. She took off speeding because she 0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:02.600 saw that the police were hurting that man, so that 0:17:02.800 --> 0:17:04.000 she was afraid of the police. 0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:04.560 I saw what the. 0:17:04.520 --> 0:17:06.439 Police were doing. We didn't see the man do anything. 0:17:06.480 --> 0:17:08.359 It was at a red light and the police, you know, 0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:12.520 pulled over whatever the case was. But I remember that happening. 0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:15.280 With that said again, the DARE program, these sorts of 0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:21.720 things became very very much the opposite of what I've 0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:26.240 known of the police to do. And so me interacting 0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:28.399 with the police was very much a tall order because 0:17:28.640 --> 0:17:31.000 you know, you were taught by them. You know, there 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:33.200 wasn't no one came and said, hey, Ramas this listen. 0:17:33.240 --> 0:17:36.439 The police is bad guy, you know. Yeah, but I 0:17:36.480 --> 0:17:40.240 recognize that again from my porch, it's a very different view. 0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:44.280 And so well does that view I've always wondered, is 0:17:44.800 --> 0:17:47.120 it that you could see yourself being in that same 0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:48.560 situationally easily? 0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:52.639 And the worst part about it is I was never 0:17:52.760 --> 0:17:56.639 able to see the why. It was almost like it 0:17:56.720 --> 0:17:59.639 just kind of happened at random. Ye Now, and now 0:17:59.640 --> 0:18:01.800 that I'm a little older and I can be fair, 0:18:01.840 --> 0:18:08.320 I do recognize that there is a tendency that's me 0:18:08.400 --> 0:18:11.000 being very generous, But there's a tendency for the police 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:16.119 to be around the crimes or the criminals. That's not 0:18:16.200 --> 0:18:18.720 always the case sometimes, you know, I always say this 0:18:18.800 --> 0:18:21.640 in my personal life, if you're looking for something, you're 0:18:21.680 --> 0:18:24.159 going to find it, even if it's not there. You know, 0:18:24.840 --> 0:18:27.240 I've been in relationships. You know, I'm not married, so 0:18:27.280 --> 0:18:28.680 this has happened to me a few times in my life. 0:18:28.680 --> 0:18:32.639 But I've been in relationships or you know, lady friends. 0:18:32.680 --> 0:18:36.240 We'll go through my phone and I'll say it, if 0:18:36.240 --> 0:18:37.760 you're looking for something, you're going to find it even 0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:40.080 if it's not there. Yeah, And so you know, a 0:18:40.119 --> 0:18:43.119 similar I have a similar idea when. 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:45.159 It comes to the police. 0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:47.639 You know, if you're doing stop and frisk, which is 0:18:47.880 --> 0:18:49.280 a thing that has happened in New York. 0:18:49.320 --> 0:18:51.399 Are you familiar with us a little bit? Okay, So 0:18:51.440 --> 0:18:51.840 for those. 0:18:51.680 --> 0:18:56.560 Who are not Stopping frisk was a policy implemented in 0:18:56.600 --> 0:19:01.280 New York which basically gave the police license to stop 0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:04.119 black and brown kids, you know, Puerto Rican black kids 0:19:04.920 --> 0:19:07.199 and just you know, shake them down, see if they 0:19:07.200 --> 0:19:10.840 had any drugs and he stolen good whatever. And it's 0:19:10.920 --> 0:19:17.199 a very dehumanizing and very racist thing to do to 0:19:17.359 --> 0:19:21.720 human beings, especially human beings were poor where there's no 0:19:22.640 --> 0:19:27.600 real economic you know, we could we could examine it 0:19:27.600 --> 0:19:29.639 all day, but just imagine if that was happening to you, 0:19:29.680 --> 0:19:32.560 if you how embarrassing and how humiliating that is for 0:19:32.640 --> 0:19:33.560 the police to pull you over. 0:19:33.880 --> 0:19:34.120 Yeah. 0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:37.680 I remember first reading about that in that Malcolm Gladwell 0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:38.879 book At the Tipping Point. 0:19:39.280 --> 0:19:39.880 I think. 0:19:41.680 --> 0:19:44.119 In that book he was talking about the broken windows theory. 0:19:44.160 --> 0:19:46.639 That the book is about tipping point, when do you 0:19:46.680 --> 0:19:49.359 get to a point that things start going in the 0:19:49.359 --> 0:19:51.680 direction that you either want or don't want? Right, And 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:55.000 this broken windows idea is that when people see broken windows, 0:19:55.000 --> 0:19:58.560 they commit crimes. Right, Like, the environment that appears that 0:19:58.840 --> 0:20:01.960 laws and rules are not being followed can actually encourage 0:20:01.960 --> 0:20:05.159 somebody to sure not follow rules and commit crimes. And 0:20:05.200 --> 0:20:08.000 so that's where they were kind of coming from, thinking, Okay, 0:20:08.119 --> 0:20:14.359 let's prosecute even small the smallest of crimes to reduce 0:20:14.359 --> 0:20:16.200 overall crime and reduce more major crime. 0:20:16.720 --> 0:20:17.439 It's been a lot of. 0:20:19.240 --> 0:20:22.879 It's possibly good intention, ever, you know, who knows, you know, 0:20:23.000 --> 0:20:25.240 you never know what's in somebody's heart. But folks have 0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:27.600 good intentions to try to do something, and then a 0:20:27.640 --> 0:20:29.280 lot of times it does not doesn't work out that 0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:31.080 work out that way, right, Yeah, it's a. 0:20:31.080 --> 0:20:33.520 Very complicated society. And this is this is sort of 0:20:33.560 --> 0:20:37.119 where I was where I was going with that, you know, 0:20:39.200 --> 0:20:43.040 having this view of the world, and a lot of people, 0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:46.159 especially people of color, black and brown folks, share this 0:20:46.320 --> 0:20:49.200 view of the world. So when we see a person 0:20:49.280 --> 0:20:53.600 like George Floyd get executed in the street and it's 0:20:53.600 --> 0:20:56.040 in the middle of a pandemic where you know, we 0:20:56.119 --> 0:20:58.440 really don't have to go to work tomorrow, Yeah there's 0:20:58.440 --> 0:21:01.520 nothing going on. Now is the time we can actually 0:21:01.520 --> 0:21:07.120 get out here and do something about this, and we do, 0:21:07.359 --> 0:21:09.280 you know, And and you know, I've taken my children 0:21:09.280 --> 0:21:13.600 out there just so that they understand that there is 0:21:13.840 --> 0:21:16.440 some solidarity there. You know, I may not be around 0:21:16.440 --> 0:21:19.119 for my children. You know, I lost my father a 0:21:19.160 --> 0:21:22.520 few years ago, and you know, even at thirty five, 0:21:22.520 --> 0:21:24.840 when I had to bury my dad, I recognize that 0:21:24.880 --> 0:21:29.560 I still needed him, you know. And you know, the 0:21:29.560 --> 0:21:33.120 beginning of this year really taught me something when Kobe's. 0:21:33.160 --> 0:21:34.440 Helicopter fell out of the sky. 0:21:34.880 --> 0:21:37.919 Yeah, that you know, tomorrow's really not promised, you know, 0:21:39.040 --> 0:21:40.639 And so I wanted to make sure that I give 0:21:40.680 --> 0:21:42.679 as many of the lessons to my children as I 0:21:42.720 --> 0:21:45.119 possibly can, and even at you know, and you know, 0:21:45.200 --> 0:21:48.480 my my youngest son, he's he was five at the time, 0:21:50.080 --> 0:21:53.960 just turned six, and you know, recognize I may not 0:21:54.040 --> 0:21:55.879 be there for them forever. It was it felt like 0:21:55.920 --> 0:21:57.480 it was very important for me to be out on 0:21:57.520 --> 0:22:01.320 the streets with them, showing them that hey, you no 0:22:01.359 --> 0:22:03.960 matter you're you're a cute kid right now. But you know, 0:22:03.960 --> 0:22:05.679 if the right person takes a look at you, you're 0:22:05.720 --> 0:22:08.080 a black man. So you know, that's and that's something 0:22:08.119 --> 0:22:09.680 that we talk about a lot. Is a lot of times. 0:22:09.800 --> 0:22:14.240 Uh did you talk to them about the George Floyda. 0:22:14.400 --> 0:22:16.600 Over and over again. Yeah. 0:22:16.640 --> 0:22:20.600 But at the point I was making is that the porch, 0:22:21.160 --> 0:22:23.000 this this porch, I love that analogy. 0:22:23.040 --> 0:22:23.720 But this porch. 0:22:23.840 --> 0:22:25.520 You know, we look at the police and we see 0:22:25.560 --> 0:22:28.080 these things, and these things very much match the patterns 0:22:28.080 --> 0:22:29.959 that we've established over the course of our lives. 0:22:31.640 --> 0:22:34.720 But to other folks, we will. 0:22:34.480 --> 0:22:44.000 Call them the specifically the Blue Lives Matter folks, the 0:22:44.200 --> 0:22:46.919 the counter protesters, the people that wave the flags, that 0:22:46.960 --> 0:22:50.760 feel like the police need need support, and so forth. 0:22:50.800 --> 0:22:56.480 I get it that their view of what's happening it 0:22:56.600 --> 0:23:02.239 looks like in gratitude, and it looks like there's this 0:23:02.440 --> 0:23:07.359 very I hate you keep using this word, but disconnected 0:23:07.600 --> 0:23:10.000 and I think that's what we're talking about her, this disconnected, 0:23:13.119 --> 0:23:17.840 cavalier sort of attitude or or this idea that well, 0:23:18.720 --> 0:23:24.000 naturally those people would feel that way about the system 0:23:25.240 --> 0:23:28.120 when they are on the opposite side of the system. Yea, 0:23:29.640 --> 0:23:34.760 And so to us, you know, we can launch a 0:23:34.880 --> 0:23:40.080 full frontal attack on the police, if you will, in 0:23:40.119 --> 0:23:43.800 a manner of speaking, not not the humans, but the system. 0:23:44.119 --> 0:23:47.000 You know, there's something that's been said that I've learned 0:23:47.000 --> 0:23:50.000 this past year, and that's that the system is doing 0:23:50.040 --> 0:23:52.119 exactly what it's what it was created to do. So 0:23:52.119 --> 0:23:53.920 there's nothing wrong with the system. It's not broken it's 0:23:53.920 --> 0:23:56.399 doing what it was meant to do. And there's this 0:23:56.520 --> 0:23:59.280 idea that if we change the system, then we can 0:23:59.359 --> 0:24:02.480 change the way laws are handed down, the way sentencing 0:24:02.520 --> 0:24:04.600 is handed down, the way policing is done, and law 0:24:04.680 --> 0:24:07.680 enforcement is done, and it doesn't require human beings to 0:24:07.720 --> 0:24:10.479 be executed in the street. There's a basic belief system 0:24:10.480 --> 0:24:12.760 that even if a person is guilty of a crime, 0:24:13.280 --> 0:24:17.639 that they should be able to state their case and 0:24:17.800 --> 0:24:22.119 they should have the opportunity to be rehabilitated. And then 0:24:22.119 --> 0:24:24.040 there's some people that take it further, of course, that 0:24:24.440 --> 0:24:28.560 prisons do not really lead to rehabilitation of criminals and 0:24:28.600 --> 0:24:31.040 so forth. And the money is being spent in such 0:24:31.040 --> 0:24:33.639 a way that people profit from it, and it's become 0:24:34.359 --> 0:24:39.520 an economic institution and it's become the norm. And people 0:24:40.440 --> 0:24:44.040 are very upset when you try to change the norm, 0:24:44.480 --> 0:24:48.480 because for the people that it works for, it seems fine. 0:24:49.160 --> 0:24:54.320 And when you come with a radical idea like you know, well, 0:24:54.840 --> 0:24:57.439 Black Lives Matter is radical to some folks, but not 0:24:57.480 --> 0:24:59.800 to everyone. But something that's been radical to even more 0:25:00.000 --> 0:25:03.440 people is this idea that you should defund the police. 0:25:03.760 --> 0:25:06.440 When you come with an idea like let's defund the police. 0:25:06.480 --> 0:25:11.439 Then those people who benefit or they don't experience the 0:25:11.560 --> 0:25:18.680 negative parts of policing and police interaction or the criminal 0:25:18.760 --> 0:25:21.040 justice system, it hasn't affected their lives in the same 0:25:21.040 --> 0:25:24.280 way that it's affected so many black and brown folks disproportionately. 0:25:24.800 --> 0:25:30.119 Then those people have a tendency to say, well, you know, 0:25:30.560 --> 0:25:34.520 let's defend the police. And if you come and you say, well, 0:25:34.600 --> 0:25:40.440 you know, black lives matter, because historically this country has 0:25:40.760 --> 0:25:46.879 treated black lives as though they don't matter, and therefore 0:25:47.040 --> 0:25:54.520 this statement needs to be said expressly said, black lives matter. 0:25:54.600 --> 0:25:56.040 We need to chant it, We need to hit the 0:25:56.080 --> 0:25:58.560 streets and say this so that people know, so that 0:25:58.560 --> 0:26:01.359 it's burned into the consciousness of this country, so that 0:26:01.400 --> 0:26:03.600 it's burned into the seared into the consciousness of the 0:26:03.600 --> 0:26:09.200 people who are responsible for enforcing laws and passing down punishment, 0:26:09.240 --> 0:26:11.880 that these lives are important, These are these are human beings, 0:26:11.880 --> 0:26:14.200 in doubt that the same consciousness from the same creator 0:26:14.520 --> 0:26:18.000 black lives matter. But those people to then be challenged 0:26:18.440 --> 0:26:24.760 with a statement like blue lives matter, when historically that 0:26:24.840 --> 0:26:29.480 has never been in question. The police have never the police, 0:26:29.680 --> 0:26:31.680 there's never been a question. Police have not been they've 0:26:32.040 --> 0:26:34.560 they've not done medical experiments on the police to see 0:26:35.000 --> 0:26:37.360 what effects it would have on people. The police have 0:26:37.400 --> 0:26:41.920 not been you know, stripped of their name and their 0:26:41.960 --> 0:26:45.560 and their history. They've not been raped and and uh, 0:26:45.800 --> 0:26:48.639 you know, robbed and and and redlined into you know, 0:26:49.080 --> 0:26:53.119 certain neighborhoods and denied economic opportunities and denied political representation, 0:26:53.240 --> 0:26:56.200 have their communities terrorized, and you know, all the crimes 0:26:56.240 --> 0:26:59.359 of this country to black people. Police and lives have 0:26:59.440 --> 0:27:03.800 asked me, but there are some black police officers. Absolutely absolutely. 0:27:03.840 --> 0:27:08.480 That's why I said, not the people, a system, the system, 0:27:08.680 --> 0:27:13.160 but historically because police and lives have never really been 0:27:13.160 --> 0:27:16.280 into question, and black lives obviously have. There's there's very 0:27:16.320 --> 0:27:21.359 much a well documented history with this country and how 0:27:21.400 --> 0:27:25.880 they treat black folks. It feels particularly or it has 0:27:25.920 --> 0:27:32.439 felt particularly offensive this past year to meet people with 0:27:32.520 --> 0:27:36.080 those flags and then there's a blue strip on the flag. 0:27:37.840 --> 0:27:41.080 For me, rams is the individual, especially because I know 0:27:41.119 --> 0:27:43.280 that you're not supposed to change the colors of the flag. 0:27:43.760 --> 0:27:45.800 And so these people who are so patriotic, and these 0:27:45.800 --> 0:27:50.040 people who are so you know, USA, USA, you know 0:27:50.160 --> 0:27:54.840 America first, those folks they tend to be Trump votes, 0:27:55.880 --> 0:27:57.720 you know, with the flags hanging from their trucks and 0:27:57.800 --> 0:27:59.160 you know that sort of thing. 0:28:00.880 --> 0:28:01.960 They're not aware that you're not. 0:28:01.880 --> 0:28:04.480 Supposed to change the colors of the flags. And so 0:28:05.040 --> 0:28:12.000 this is kind of what I've had to encounter, especially 0:28:12.040 --> 0:28:16.000 walking this path where I have to address a full 0:28:16.040 --> 0:28:18.840 city of people, you know this This show is carried 0:28:18.880 --> 0:28:24.520 on just to name a few stations, ninety eight point 0:28:24.560 --> 0:28:29.760 three Power and ninety three nine, which is an alternative station, 0:28:31.760 --> 0:28:35.000 and in South Phoenix there's one O two seven that 0:28:35.040 --> 0:28:35.439 carries the. 0:28:35.400 --> 0:28:36.560 Show as well. 0:28:36.640 --> 0:28:40.800 But there's a very diverse group of people. Obviously black 0:28:40.840 --> 0:28:45.000 folks and brown folks listen to the show, but more allies. 0:28:46.000 --> 0:28:50.840 And there are some folks who will disagree with everything 0:28:50.840 --> 0:28:54.040 that I say, but they tune in because they need 0:28:54.080 --> 0:28:56.840 to understand what it's like on this side in order 0:28:56.880 --> 0:28:58.320 to formulate an argument to disagree. 0:28:58.360 --> 0:29:00.240 And so I've had to be. 0:29:00.280 --> 0:29:03.360 Very mindful of how I frame this, this narrative in 0:29:03.400 --> 0:29:04.840 these conversations on this show. 0:29:06.040 --> 0:29:07.800 Well, can I ask you a questions? All right? 0:29:09.400 --> 0:29:12.880 Because I'm one hundred percent with you, Although I wonder 0:29:13.840 --> 0:29:20.360 how can one say black lives matter and I support 0:29:20.400 --> 0:29:25.280 the police, you know, I don't support the actions of 0:29:25.440 --> 0:29:29.120 the bad actions of the police, but I support the 0:29:29.160 --> 0:29:32.520 police and their ongoing effort to reform and be the 0:29:32.560 --> 0:29:35.280 best that they can. That we need firemen, we need teachers, 0:29:35.320 --> 0:29:40.000 we need police. How can one strike that balance in 0:29:40.360 --> 0:29:42.440 the modern age? That's a great question. 0:29:44.760 --> 0:29:49.040 And before I say anything, I will say that I 0:29:49.080 --> 0:29:52.400 can only speak as Rams as an individual who has 0:29:52.400 --> 0:29:53.160 walked through life. 0:29:53.400 --> 0:29:55.200 Sure, a lot of folks will look. 0:29:55.080 --> 0:29:58.000 At me and say, well, you're on the radio, or 0:29:58.000 --> 0:29:59.640 you're on TV, or you're on this or that or 0:29:59.640 --> 0:30:02.720 the other, and so you must know better than everyone else. 0:30:03.000 --> 0:30:06.280 And that's never the case for anyone. You know, it 0:30:06.320 --> 0:30:09.520 could be the highest I mean, we've seen the President 0:30:09.560 --> 0:30:12.160 of the United States try to guess the cure for 0:30:12.520 --> 0:30:16.440 coronavirus during the press conference. Yeah, so, you know, just 0:30:16.480 --> 0:30:19.040 because a person that has, you know, a platform, doesn't 0:30:19.040 --> 0:30:22.880 mean they know all the answers. But the person Ramses 0:30:23.480 --> 0:30:24.840 will certainly share. 0:30:26.640 --> 0:30:27.600 My thinking is. 0:30:27.520 --> 0:30:35.000 That obviously, to say black lives matter is to say 0:30:35.000 --> 0:30:38.480 a mouthful, because there are some people who are gonna 0:30:38.680 --> 0:30:40.560 roll their eyes and say, oh my god, here we 0:30:40.600 --> 0:30:41.040 go again. 0:30:41.440 --> 0:30:42.720 You know, hear these black people. 0:30:42.760 --> 0:30:46.000 They want to whatever and they're they're clearly the criminals. 0:30:46.040 --> 0:30:50.280 Why are they you know? And they have this again disconnected. 0:30:52.720 --> 0:30:53.320 Reality. 0:30:53.640 --> 0:30:55.680 You know that they live in a whole different world 0:30:55.720 --> 0:30:58.600 where the police represent something entirely different. The police are 0:30:58.600 --> 0:31:02.360 there to protect you. Again, for a person like me, historically, 0:31:02.440 --> 0:31:04.520 the police. I've never called the police in my life. 0:31:04.640 --> 0:31:05.280 I don't think I. 0:31:05.240 --> 0:31:07.880 Ever would, you know, why would I do that? You know, 0:31:08.640 --> 0:31:10.960 you know, you know. 0:31:12.160 --> 0:31:17.880 But to say that you support the police is to 0:31:18.000 --> 0:31:23.600 say that. I think it's it's it's a way of 0:31:23.640 --> 0:31:29.239 admitting that the police. And I know this might not 0:31:29.280 --> 0:31:32.680 be true, but hear me out. Let me start here. Then, 0:31:33.040 --> 0:31:37.200 to say I support black people, I think that that's 0:31:37.280 --> 0:31:40.360 to say that In saying that, what you're saying is 0:31:40.360 --> 0:31:46.000 that there is a there's something that's not one hundred 0:31:46.000 --> 0:31:49.960 percent there, and they require support and I stand with them. 0:31:50.000 --> 0:31:53.760 I understand their plight or I see some of the optics. 0:31:54.280 --> 0:31:58.120 And when I can, in a conversation or in a 0:31:58.120 --> 0:32:01.080 public manner or whatever, when I can offer support to 0:32:01.120 --> 0:32:04.640 their plight or mention their cause or whatever, I. 0:32:04.560 --> 0:32:05.400 Will do so. 0:32:06.040 --> 0:32:11.560 And support is something that is like the gay community, 0:32:11.640 --> 0:32:16.760 you know what I mean, they have issues with respect 0:32:16.760 --> 0:32:28.800 to representation, discrimination, et cetera. And therefore their journey requires 0:32:28.840 --> 0:32:31.240 and that requires as a strong word, but requires support, 0:32:31.400 --> 0:32:34.000 you know, or it could use support. If you were 0:32:34.000 --> 0:32:37.480 to lend support to it, then it would benefit them 0:32:37.520 --> 0:32:41.520 and would help them on their plight. Yes, you know, 0:32:41.600 --> 0:32:43.920 breast cancer, you know, like these sorts of things where 0:32:43.960 --> 0:32:47.320 people are kind of at a disadvantage, or they're starting 0:32:47.880 --> 0:32:49.960 a little bit behind, you know, you know, they didn't 0:32:50.000 --> 0:32:52.600 get the same sort of you know, whatever, they have resources, 0:32:52.600 --> 0:32:55.600 et cetera. To say I support the police would be 0:32:55.680 --> 0:32:59.720 to suggest in a similar manner that. 0:33:01.120 --> 0:33:02.240 The police are. 0:33:07.640 --> 0:33:10.720 Lacking in some way, the police are discriminated against the police, 0:33:10.760 --> 0:33:14.400 are you know, something like that. They're they're having some 0:33:14.440 --> 0:33:19.720 sort of hardship and they require our support. And for me, 0:33:19.880 --> 0:33:24.320 as I stated the system, not the human beings, but 0:33:24.400 --> 0:33:27.760 the system, it is understood that the system is doing 0:33:27.840 --> 0:33:31.400 exactly what it was designed to do. The word patrol 0:33:32.120 --> 0:33:38.920 comes from slave patrol. It was designed to search for 0:33:39.840 --> 0:33:44.200 runaway slaves. And so when I hear patrol car or 0:33:44.520 --> 0:33:48.080 you know, patrol officer, these sorts of things, there's there's 0:33:48.160 --> 0:33:50.800 the lineage is right there in the word that's that's 0:33:50.800 --> 0:33:55.280 something you know, to those listening, Google is free. You're 0:33:55.280 --> 0:33:58.000 are the welcome to look that up, you know, but 0:33:58.240 --> 0:34:02.080 you can see that, you know, policing obviously has been 0:34:02.120 --> 0:34:06.320 around a lot longer than slavery. But patrolling is something 0:34:06.400 --> 0:34:09.080 that has come about, at least in this country in 0:34:09.120 --> 0:34:10.759 the way that we understand it. 0:34:10.520 --> 0:34:13.800 It originated with slave patrols. 0:34:15.960 --> 0:34:22.000 And as a way of separating, you know, people and 0:34:22.080 --> 0:34:23.160 keeping people. 0:34:24.760 --> 0:34:25.600 Protecting wealth. 0:34:26.760 --> 0:34:29.040 And if you don't know what I'm talking about, again, 0:34:29.160 --> 0:34:33.439 google breadlining, watch any video and you'll you'll understand why 0:34:33.480 --> 0:34:36.759 ghettos exist, Why you know, ghettos are more heavily patrolled, 0:34:36.800 --> 0:34:41.680 and and and so forth. You'll understand, you know, if 0:34:41.960 --> 0:34:43.799 you want to go all the way down that rabbit hole. 0:34:43.840 --> 0:34:47.640 These are things. These are matters of public record. These 0:34:47.640 --> 0:34:49.799 are not conspiracy theories or anything. These are things that 0:34:49.840 --> 0:34:52.040 the government has admitted to. You can find out exactly 0:34:52.080 --> 0:34:58.400 how drugs destroyed the black community and that the government 0:34:58.520 --> 0:35:02.200 was behind that, and the police helped that in the 0:35:02.280 --> 0:35:06.440 FBI and so forth, and these communities, black communities and 0:35:06.480 --> 0:35:10.440 brown communities were destroyed over and over again by those things. 0:35:10.440 --> 0:35:16.320 And then mass incarceration, where you know, you take those 0:35:16.360 --> 0:35:20.640 people who obviously have an entrepreneurial spirit, use the only 0:35:20.680 --> 0:35:24.320 means of economic empowerment available to them that was given 0:35:24.320 --> 0:35:24.680 to them. 0:35:24.560 --> 0:35:25.240 By the government. 0:35:25.360 --> 0:35:28.560 Yeah, and then in prison for it at much longer 0:35:28.600 --> 0:35:33.360 sentences than you know. They're white counterparts who did the 0:35:33.360 --> 0:35:36.000 same sorts of crimes and so forth. So you know, 0:35:36.040 --> 0:35:40.319 back to your question, I think that the way that 0:35:40.360 --> 0:35:43.319 I would say that for me, this is not for you, 0:35:43.400 --> 0:35:44.560 and this is not for a lot of. 0:35:44.480 --> 0:35:51.040 People, but for me, it starts with what I said, 0:35:51.080 --> 0:35:52.000 defund the police. 0:35:52.520 --> 0:35:55.000 The reason I say that, and I say that knowing 0:35:55.040 --> 0:35:57.719 that it's an alarming thing to say, but it's not. 0:35:58.239 --> 0:36:01.200 I'm not saying abolish the police. There are some people 0:36:01.200 --> 0:36:04.400 who say that, I'm not saying. I disagree with those people, 0:36:04.760 --> 0:36:08.040 but I understand what they're saying. They're saying something that's 0:36:08.080 --> 0:36:12.400 alarming so that people will look behind or look at 0:36:12.440 --> 0:36:15.160 what they're saying and examine it critically. Everyone on some 0:36:15.320 --> 0:36:19.520 level knows that we need institutions that protect us from criminals. 0:36:19.520 --> 0:36:21.960 The criminals will exist. They come in every color, they 0:36:22.040 --> 0:36:24.600 come from every background. That's just a fact of life. 0:36:25.719 --> 0:36:30.400 But what we have right now does not work for everyone. 0:36:31.120 --> 0:36:33.759 And so when a person says, defund the police, or 0:36:33.800 --> 0:36:35.840 in this case, when I'm saying defund the police, what 0:36:35.880 --> 0:36:41.560 I mean is I'm saying, let's examine what policing is like, 0:36:41.719 --> 0:36:44.080 not on a whole, because obviously the police will be 0:36:44.120 --> 0:36:45.759 able to stand up and say, well, we get out 0:36:45.760 --> 0:36:47.799 there and we fight through, we have a tough job, 0:36:47.840 --> 0:36:49.359 and you know, we put our lives on the line, 0:36:49.400 --> 0:36:56.320 and all those things are true. But beyond the glitz 0:36:56.320 --> 0:37:01.800 and the polish, we recognize that will overwhelmingly and disproportionately 0:37:02.280 --> 0:37:05.919 this has a negative effect on these specific communities and 0:37:05.960 --> 0:37:10.719 not so much on this community. And when we look 0:37:10.760 --> 0:37:14.160 at defunding the police, what we're really looking at is, well, 0:37:14.560 --> 0:37:19.440 how can we best support a society where everyone has 0:37:20.280 --> 0:37:21.319 is able to benefit from it. 0:37:21.320 --> 0:37:23.040 How can we The police's. 0:37:22.640 --> 0:37:28.000 Objective is to minimize crime. I think that's pretty much 0:37:28.040 --> 0:37:28.879 what everyone would say. 0:37:28.960 --> 0:37:35.440 Yes, well, I think we would say that the community's idea, Well, 0:37:37.640 --> 0:37:38.440 it's what I would. 0:37:38.200 --> 0:37:40.279 Say, you know, let's let's minimize crime. I know we 0:37:40.320 --> 0:37:42.560 can't eliminate it, but let's minimize crime, So I'll say it. 0:37:42.560 --> 0:37:44.239 That's what we would I think we would say that 0:37:44.239 --> 0:37:48.080 the societal agreement is right but but in practice there's been. 0:37:49.640 --> 0:37:51.440 Different different definitions of. 0:37:51.360 --> 0:37:53.680 Course, of course, but for for this one, I'll say 0:37:53.680 --> 0:37:59.480 it so that you don't have to because, okay, so 0:37:59.520 --> 0:38:03.000 the police objective is to minimize crime. Well, by defunding 0:38:03.040 --> 0:38:09.840 the police and reallocating the fiscal resources into programs that 0:38:10.840 --> 0:38:14.359 will attack the root of the problem, what we can 0:38:14.400 --> 0:38:16.360 do is minimize crime. 0:38:16.480 --> 0:38:20.640 Here's a question I have for you, though, sure, especially 0:38:20.680 --> 0:38:23.960 in this era where we are deficit spending out the wazoo. 0:38:24.040 --> 0:38:25.839 You know, we're just we're just printing money right now 0:38:25.880 --> 0:38:32.759 as a country to spend money for those other social programs. 0:38:33.480 --> 0:38:35.799 Why does it have to come out of the pocket. 0:38:35.520 --> 0:38:36.080 Of the police. 0:38:36.480 --> 0:38:40.800 Well, there's a that's another great question. What we've seen 0:38:41.040 --> 0:38:46.120 in the past, since the we'll call it the mid nineties, 0:38:47.360 --> 0:38:51.200 is the militarization of the police. 0:38:51.120 --> 0:38:52.600 Of the United States of America. 0:38:52.760 --> 0:38:56.239 Yeah, this is why when the police show up when 0:38:56.280 --> 0:39:00.319 I'm walking with my five year old's hand in my 0:39:00.440 --> 0:39:04.040 hand and my fourteen year old his hand in my hand, 0:39:04.680 --> 0:39:12.640 and we are protesting the murder of Breonna Taylor while 0:39:12.680 --> 0:39:18.160 she was sleeping in her bed, the police standing on 0:39:18.640 --> 0:39:23.440 the sides of the road, you know, lining our path 0:39:24.040 --> 0:39:31.879 on this protest looked like they're ready for war, as 0:39:31.880 --> 0:39:39.160 opposed to this image that they tried to teach me 0:39:39.400 --> 0:39:43.280 during the DARE program of your friendly neighborhood police officer. 0:39:45.640 --> 0:39:49.480 Completely unnecessary, you know, for them to have three and 0:39:49.560 --> 0:39:54.319 four murder weapons on their person. There was a chance 0:39:54.400 --> 0:39:57.839 that that people were shouting, which I love and I'll 0:39:57.840 --> 0:40:01.440 carry it with me forever. The chant goes, there's no 0:40:01.760 --> 0:40:05.359 riot here, Why are you and riot gear? There's no 0:40:05.640 --> 0:40:14.120 riot here? Why are you and riot gear? And forgive 0:40:14.160 --> 0:40:24.120 me for being emotional, but it really I think that 0:40:24.160 --> 0:40:29.760 it really speaks to this idea that. 0:40:33.200 --> 0:40:34.160 They think. 0:40:36.200 --> 0:40:38.200 It's fear based. And I know that, and I know 0:40:38.239 --> 0:40:42.200 that they're people, and people are susceptible to fear, and 0:40:42.200 --> 0:40:44.239 that's the unfortunate thing. But they have weapons, and they 0:40:44.280 --> 0:40:46.359 have all this stuff, you know, and we're I'm there 0:40:46.360 --> 0:40:50.040 with children. One of my sons has spina biffity, the 0:40:50.120 --> 0:40:52.040 other one is six. We can't run, We can't even 0:40:52.080 --> 0:40:53.600 outrun you, you know what I mean. That's why I'm 0:40:53.600 --> 0:40:55.000 not going to leave my babies here. You know, So 0:40:55.040 --> 0:40:56.040 what what is this for? 0:40:56.160 --> 0:40:56.320 Are you? 0:40:56.400 --> 0:40:58.839 Are you trying to intimidate my children like you know, 0:40:58.840 --> 0:41:00.960 we're here because someone dies and we need to change 0:41:00.960 --> 0:41:03.839 the system, and you're here defending it with all of 0:41:03.840 --> 0:41:04.520 this kit. 0:41:05.680 --> 0:41:06.319 Add to that. 0:41:07.880 --> 0:41:15.840 Tanks, uh, you know, all the all the machinery that 0:41:16.000 --> 0:41:19.719 was decommissioned after the Gulf War and Desert Storm and 0:41:19.760 --> 0:41:22.400 all that stuff. A lot of that was able to 0:41:22.440 --> 0:41:27.719 be repurposed and purchased by you know, local municipalities for 0:41:27.800 --> 0:41:32.480 their their police departments. Yeah, and you know there's there's 0:41:32.520 --> 0:41:35.799 people who have to sell that stuff, repurpose it. And 0:41:35.880 --> 0:41:38.760 how do you sell something like that to a city 0:41:38.840 --> 0:41:41.600 like Phoenix, where if we need there's a national guard, 0:41:41.760 --> 0:41:45.160 you know, but the you know, so you sell them fear, 0:41:45.719 --> 0:41:48.080 you know. And and the police are people just like 0:41:48.120 --> 0:41:50.640 anyone else. There's a person that makes a decision that says, well, 0:41:50.680 --> 0:41:52.520 you know what, if bad turns the worse, we better 0:41:52.560 --> 0:41:55.759 have this. And you know, and there's this this mentality 0:41:55.840 --> 0:42:03.759 that you know, we need to protect ourselves from them, 0:42:04.239 --> 0:42:06.280 as opposed to we need to protect them. 0:42:06.680 --> 0:42:07.839 Yeah and so. 0:42:08.160 --> 0:42:09.959 And you know, I'm not an expert on this, of course, 0:42:10.000 --> 0:42:15.600 but I couldn't agree more that we should demilitarize the police. Sure, 0:42:15.680 --> 0:42:19.800 And I think there's these community I've been just reading 0:42:19.800 --> 0:42:22.480 and hearing about a little bit like community based policing initiatives, 0:42:22.480 --> 0:42:24.600 where we want to try to get police officers actually 0:42:24.600 --> 0:42:26.640 live in the communities that they police, you know, have 0:42:26.680 --> 0:42:28.719 a house because this kind of thing. 0:42:28.920 --> 0:42:30.200 It's a lot harder. 0:42:30.360 --> 0:42:35.440 To dehumanize somebody if you're actually living amongst them, you know, 0:42:35.440 --> 0:42:37.719 if you see each other exactly exactly. 0:42:38.560 --> 0:42:38.799 Yeah. 0:42:38.880 --> 0:42:41.840 So you know, I couldn't agree with you more on 0:42:41.880 --> 0:42:43.759 all those reforms, and I couldn't agree with you more 0:42:43.800 --> 0:42:47.440 when you talk about fear. But I think that's driving 0:42:48.239 --> 0:42:51.839 both sides, you know, I think so. One of my 0:42:51.880 --> 0:42:54.080 good friends, one of my employees, is married to a 0:42:54.080 --> 0:42:56.120 police officer. I have a number of friends that are 0:42:56.160 --> 0:43:00.879 police officers. You know, they hear defund and and it's 0:43:01.000 --> 0:43:05.080 natural that someone's like, well, you know, the police Demartment's 0:43:05.120 --> 0:43:07.040 my livelihood, and you know, that's my pension, that's my 0:43:07.239 --> 0:43:09.320 you know, that's where I go to work. And I'm 0:43:09.480 --> 0:43:12.880 you know, people would think I'm a good person. You know, 0:43:12.960 --> 0:43:15.000 I'm in it for the right reasons as a police officer, 0:43:15.000 --> 0:43:16.120 and I'm friends with some of these folks. 0:43:16.120 --> 0:43:17.719 And it's hard because I I. 0:43:17.680 --> 0:43:24.360 Understand why when when that's the leading point, the defund 0:43:24.360 --> 0:43:27.960 the police as the slogan. It's a hard one, you know, 0:43:28.239 --> 0:43:31.480 because it also I don't think people like admitting that 0:43:31.520 --> 0:43:34.600 they're being made to feel afraid. I don't know why, 0:43:34.719 --> 0:43:37.920 you know, nobody's we feel afraid. We act, we have 0:43:37.960 --> 0:43:41.840 a lot of certainly reactions from when we're afraid, but 0:43:41.920 --> 0:43:44.960 we don't like admitting it, you know. But that I 0:43:45.000 --> 0:43:46.839 think that's uh, you hit. 0:43:46.760 --> 0:43:49.680 It exactly, that. 0:43:48.600 --> 0:43:50.640 That slogan strikes fear into the heart of a lot 0:43:50.680 --> 0:43:55.240 of other folks, and that's where we're you know, struggling 0:43:55.280 --> 0:43:55.920 to unite. 0:43:56.080 --> 0:44:02.280 So my thoughts, again, we're looking back on twenty twenty, 0:44:02.480 --> 0:44:13.600 my thoughts are, yeah, you know, I I have I 0:44:13.600 --> 0:44:17.000 wouldn't say I'm like, well, I will say I'm a 0:44:17.000 --> 0:44:21.719 pretty shrewd negotiator. Okay, But you don't have to be 0:44:21.719 --> 0:44:25.080 a shrewd negotiator to understand this. I think everyone understands 0:44:25.120 --> 0:44:29.200 this on some level. If I have a car that 0:44:29.239 --> 0:44:38.080 I want to sell, and I want nine thousand dollars 0:44:38.080 --> 0:44:42.880 for the car, I'll list the car for ten thousand dollars. Yeah, okay, 0:44:43.160 --> 0:44:48.200 someone else will offer me eight thousand dollars. I'll counter 0:44:48.239 --> 0:44:50.959 offer with nine thousand dollars, they'll agree, we'll shake hands, 0:44:50.960 --> 0:44:53.239 and I sell the car for nine thousand dollars. But 0:44:53.760 --> 0:44:57.480 on some level they may or may not. But I'm 0:44:57.640 --> 0:44:59.640 for this example, they may know that I probably have 0:44:59.680 --> 0:45:02.239 some mo room because it's such an expensive it's such 0:45:02.239 --> 0:45:05.960 a tall order, ten thousand dollars, it's so much money, 0:45:06.040 --> 0:45:08.399 So he might have some wiggle room there. And on 0:45:08.440 --> 0:45:11.359 some order, on some level, I know that if they're 0:45:11.400 --> 0:45:14.200 offering me eight thousand dollars, but they're looking at this car, 0:45:14.280 --> 0:45:16.319 that they're prepared to spend perhaps a little bit more. 0:45:16.400 --> 0:45:17.960 They just want to save as much of this money 0:45:18.000 --> 0:45:23.320 as they can, Okay, And so this tall order becomes 0:45:27.000 --> 0:45:33.279 a starting point. And so to take that and to 0:45:33.320 --> 0:45:37.600 apply to what we're talking about here, this idea of 0:45:37.680 --> 0:45:44.680 defund the police is really a place to get us 0:45:46.280 --> 0:45:51.000 to look at how policing is done critically. Let's look 0:45:51.000 --> 0:45:53.799 at it like it's not working. Let's all look at 0:45:53.800 --> 0:45:56.439 it like it's not working for everyone. Yeah, okay, Because 0:45:56.480 --> 0:45:58.080 if you look at it like it's working for everyone, 0:45:58.120 --> 0:45:59.040 then of course defund what. 0:45:59.080 --> 0:46:00.480 Are you talking about. Let's get them more money. 0:46:00.560 --> 0:46:01.839 Let's give them all of our money, you know, why 0:46:01.920 --> 0:46:04.440 not you know, yeah, I'm not My house has you know, 0:46:04.640 --> 0:46:06.759 not been burglarized, So let's give them all the money 0:46:06.760 --> 0:46:08.160 we can. 0:46:09.239 --> 0:46:12.360 And that's the view from that porch. I love that example. 0:46:12.400 --> 0:46:12.640 Thank you. 0:46:12.840 --> 0:46:16.680 I'm going to use that. I can't claim ownership, but 0:46:16.800 --> 0:46:20.160 I can't claim usage of its fine. It's been introduced 0:46:20.160 --> 0:46:22.120 to me today. So I'll tell you yea, if I 0:46:22.160 --> 0:46:23.760 take anything else from twenty twenty. 0:46:23.560 --> 0:46:23.960 It'll be that. 0:46:25.200 --> 0:46:30.120 But you know, for the police to say, well, you know, 0:46:32.960 --> 0:46:35.000 you know, we can't do that, or we don't want 0:46:35.040 --> 0:46:36.800 to do that, or that, what about my pension or 0:46:36.880 --> 0:46:38.760 this is what I've committed my ad to or whatever, 0:46:40.560 --> 0:46:44.080 you know, then at least we're having now a back 0:46:44.120 --> 0:46:46.200 and forth, Well, why do you want to defund the police? Well, 0:46:46.200 --> 0:46:48.080 because the police are not ever going to be able 0:46:48.120 --> 0:46:50.879 to respond to these types of incidents. For these type 0:46:50.920 --> 0:46:53.279 of incidents, no one should show up with a you know, 0:46:53.320 --> 0:46:54.640 there was a I foresee that. 0:46:54.640 --> 0:46:56.680 That's why I think it's become commonplace to make a 0:46:56.719 --> 0:46:58.600 statement like that the police are never. 0:46:58.440 --> 0:47:02.880 Going to be able to do this. Yeah I know, 0:47:03.040 --> 0:47:04.640 but I'm I'm just saying that. 0:47:04.640 --> 0:47:08.920 That's like they I think I think those types of Okay, 0:47:08.920 --> 0:47:10.760 so you might not say that to a police officer. 0:47:10.800 --> 0:47:14.880 We just said that here. But people are just like 0:47:14.920 --> 0:47:18.279 you're a shrewd negotiator. People are like very subconsciously good 0:47:18.320 --> 0:47:20.840 at picking up on sentiment, you know, or an idea. 0:47:20.840 --> 0:47:24.279 And I think, I think if that's the idea that 0:47:24.320 --> 0:47:27.920 you know, the police are incapable of being reformed as 0:47:27.920 --> 0:47:29.719 an institution, not as individuals. 0:47:29.920 --> 0:47:30.120 Right. 0:47:30.200 --> 0:47:32.800 I know that you've clarified that a number of times. 0:47:32.960 --> 0:47:36.719 One of the challenges is institutions are made up of individuals. 0:47:36.680 --> 0:47:37.919 You know, and. 0:47:40.880 --> 0:47:44.560 We need to stop anyone who says the black community 0:47:44.600 --> 0:47:46.880 is just never gonna what fill in the blank. 0:47:46.920 --> 0:47:48.400 You can't say something like that. 0:47:48.400 --> 0:47:52.240 That's human beings they're capable of, you know, you can't 0:47:52.280 --> 0:47:53.319 you can't label folks. 0:47:53.440 --> 0:47:54.440 Let me let me offer this. 0:47:54.760 --> 0:48:01.000 Yeah, and I'm sure that many of the many police 0:48:01.000 --> 0:48:04.120 officers will admit they have a very tough job. 0:48:04.840 --> 0:48:06.640 They have a lot of things that they have to 0:48:06.680 --> 0:48:08.719 be prepared for. They have a lot of. 0:48:08.680 --> 0:48:10.360 Things that they have to be able to respond to. 0:48:10.640 --> 0:48:13.080 Oftentimes they don't know what it is that they're going 0:48:13.120 --> 0:48:18.160 to respond to. But before anything else, above all else. 0:48:18.440 --> 0:48:21.520 It's like in the military, you're a basic rifleman before anything. 0:48:21.560 --> 0:48:23.560 You can be a military photographer, but they will teach 0:48:23.560 --> 0:48:25.680 you how to shoot that gun before anything else. You 0:48:25.680 --> 0:48:28.160 are a crime fighter, right, will teach you how to 0:48:28.200 --> 0:48:28.839 shoot that gun. 0:48:28.960 --> 0:48:29.120 Right. 0:48:29.800 --> 0:48:36.440 So in rethinking how policing is done from the beginning, 0:48:38.200 --> 0:48:46.080 what you do is you recognize those self admitted complaints. 0:48:46.160 --> 0:48:48.680 You know, the police officer, you can you can check 0:48:48.719 --> 0:48:50.640 it out. You know, if you're listening to my voice, 0:48:50.640 --> 0:48:52.279 you can check this out, which, by the way, if 0:48:52.320 --> 0:48:55.160 you're just dotting in a civic cipher. My guest today 0:48:55.360 --> 0:49:00.000 is Ian Basquez, and we're talking that we're recapping twenty twenty. 0:49:00.160 --> 0:49:04.840 Of course i'my host Rams's job. But anyway, you know, 0:49:04.960 --> 0:49:08.319 if we're asking these folks to do all of these 0:49:08.320 --> 0:49:10.880 things and do them well and never make a mistake, 0:49:11.640 --> 0:49:17.440 and we see that there's this this story is littered 0:49:17.480 --> 0:49:20.680 with mistakes, and then you see the corruption come in 0:49:20.719 --> 0:49:22.480 a play where they try to cover up the mistakes. 0:49:22.520 --> 0:49:24.040 I saw a video on the other day where a 0:49:24.040 --> 0:49:26.720 police officer was bragging. I could show it to you, 0:49:26.719 --> 0:49:28.720 you know when we're off the air. But police officer 0:49:28.760 --> 0:49:30.480 was bragging. He was in Boston, he was bragging to 0:49:31.960 --> 0:49:33.879 one of his other officers about how he had run 0:49:33.920 --> 0:49:36.799 his car into some of the protesters and the and 0:49:36.840 --> 0:49:38.799 the officer pushed him away and covered up his body. 0:49:38.800 --> 0:49:41.359 Cameras like, oh, the camera's on. And then and then. 0:49:41.239 --> 0:49:42.759 He goes back and he's like, oh, yeah, well, you know, 0:49:42.800 --> 0:49:46.000 I didn't actually run anyone over. And then somehow, somehow 0:49:46.040 --> 0:49:48.160 the video got released, and you know, you can see that, 0:49:48.239 --> 0:49:50.160 and there's plenty of examples of this, and obviously there's 0:49:50.200 --> 0:49:57.400 well documented examples, but there's also this this. You know, 0:49:57.440 --> 0:50:00.280 they really watch each other's back, you know that that 0:50:00.000 --> 0:50:02.840 that the blue line really protects itself, you know, and 0:50:03.160 --> 0:50:04.840 this is how you can kind of paint them with 0:50:04.880 --> 0:50:08.839 broad strokes because you know, like with any other job, 0:50:08.880 --> 0:50:12.240 if there's one person who's bringing down the whole team, 0:50:12.440 --> 0:50:15.120 that person gets fired. Everyone you know does it well. 0:50:15.160 --> 0:50:17.719 And that's one of the things that I've you talked 0:50:17.719 --> 0:50:20.399 about twenty twenty like lessons learned, so to speak. It's 0:50:22.120 --> 0:50:24.160 it's really hit home for me that that is every 0:50:24.239 --> 0:50:29.200 human institution. So every human institution will circle the wagons 0:50:29.239 --> 0:50:31.799 to protect itself, whether it be the Catholic Church or 0:50:31.840 --> 0:50:35.560 the police on harmon fire, department, you know, local government, 0:50:37.000 --> 0:50:41.440 and it's tough, but we have to when there. 0:50:41.239 --> 0:50:45.840 Is an opportunity to call it out, to change it, 0:50:45.880 --> 0:50:50.120 to reform it, and when it is a matter of 0:50:51.320 --> 0:50:55.800 life and death, when it has existed in one form 0:50:55.920 --> 0:51:00.560 or another for hundreds of years oppressing one type of 0:51:00.880 --> 0:51:06.839 person or one type of human specifically, when it it's time. 0:51:07.080 --> 0:51:09.879 Has run its course, which a lot of folks. 0:51:09.560 --> 0:51:13.560 Recognized was the Civil Rights movement, a lot of folks 0:51:13.600 --> 0:51:16.480 recognized was the Black Lives Matter movement when that started 0:51:16.480 --> 0:51:20.759 in twenty twelve, and a lot of folks were, you know, 0:51:20.880 --> 0:51:24.080 mobilized upon the death of George Floyd. And maybe there's 0:51:24.120 --> 0:51:26.160 another thing in the future. Maybe this is kind of 0:51:26.320 --> 0:51:29.760 you know, the tipping point after you know, the election, 0:51:29.920 --> 0:51:32.080 and you know, when this new administration takes office, we'll 0:51:32.080 --> 0:51:43.680 see what happens there. But if we can change something, 0:51:44.440 --> 0:51:49.000 then I think it is incumbent upon us to try 0:51:49.040 --> 0:51:52.439 to do so. And then we moved to the next 0:51:52.440 --> 0:51:54.319 thing and the next thing, because obviously no one wants 0:51:54.320 --> 0:51:56.520 any of these horrible things to happen to anyone. But 0:51:58.280 --> 0:52:01.279 for those of us who are Americans, you know, a 0:52:01.320 --> 0:52:04.680 person like me born in California, that's just as America 0:52:04.719 --> 0:52:08.120 as Virginia, and you know, South Dakota and you know 0:52:08.160 --> 0:52:12.520 all those other places considers themselves American. You know, I 0:52:12.560 --> 0:52:15.400 watched these American movies and you know at the end, 0:52:15.520 --> 0:52:18.200 when you know the flags flying high, that sense of pride. 0:52:18.239 --> 0:52:20.040 You know, my father was in the Air Force. You know, 0:52:20.320 --> 0:52:22.279 you know, I'm just as American as anyone else. 0:52:22.320 --> 0:52:22.440 You know. 0:52:22.719 --> 0:52:29.960 Yeah, to then see the flag sort of repurposed to 0:52:30.520 --> 0:52:34.719 represent what I believe to be the worst ideas, just 0:52:34.800 --> 0:52:37.160 one part of American divisive, you know, And I see 0:52:37.160 --> 0:52:39.399 the flag and now it strikes fear. It's like, oh man, 0:52:39.440 --> 0:52:41.000 this is a wrong street. I shouldn't be here. 0:52:41.040 --> 0:52:41.279 You know. 0:52:44.400 --> 0:52:46.799 That lets me know that you. 0:52:46.760 --> 0:52:52.120 Know, there's a there's a very very there's two different Americas. 0:52:52.200 --> 0:52:55.560 You know, maybe more, but really there's two that I'm seeing. 0:52:56.400 --> 0:52:59.200 And you know, you said it best at the beginning 0:52:59.200 --> 0:53:02.200 of this conversation, And what needs to happen is we 0:53:02.280 --> 0:53:04.239 really need to sit down and have a conversation. And 0:53:04.280 --> 0:53:07.239 so to to finish what I was saying is, you 0:53:07.280 --> 0:53:11.080 know these tall orders. 0:53:12.600 --> 0:53:13.920 Who knows if. 0:53:15.640 --> 0:53:20.280 We'll ever see police fully defunded to the degree where 0:53:20.320 --> 0:53:24.520 other social programs are implemented, and housing, you know, is addressed, 0:53:24.520 --> 0:53:30.440 and and economic disadvantages are are addressed, and and and 0:53:30.480 --> 0:53:32.920 so forth and so on, and there's after school programs, 0:53:32.960 --> 0:53:36.200 and there's you know, support systems in place to kind 0:53:36.239 --> 0:53:41.279 of change communities, and you know, they're they're given time 0:53:41.360 --> 0:53:44.360 to heal and to to rebound, and we'll put together 0:53:44.400 --> 0:53:46.600 a twenty year program to see how well it works. 0:53:46.600 --> 0:53:48.759 And this, you know, this sort of thing, and that 0:53:48.880 --> 0:53:54.480 money come from the oppressors, the quote unquote oppressors to 0:53:54.520 --> 0:53:57.920 where they are, their ability to oppress is limited, and 0:53:57.960 --> 0:54:00.799 their ability to thrive is increased. 0:54:01.040 --> 0:54:05.799 You know. Yeah, I just I think, don't forget that. 0:54:05.960 --> 0:54:09.680 I think some of these folks themselves can be victimized 0:54:09.680 --> 0:54:11.120 by the system that I know. That might be like 0:54:11.239 --> 0:54:14.560 hard Tobly, but someone might go into the police and say, 0:54:14.560 --> 0:54:17.120 you know, I really want to do good, and then 0:54:17.160 --> 0:54:19.120 you come into the institution and what you find is 0:54:19.160 --> 0:54:21.000 the institution changes you more than you change. 0:54:22.000 --> 0:54:23.560 I want to, I want to. I want to cite 0:54:23.560 --> 0:54:26.640 an example. I haven't been able to share this yet. 0:54:26.680 --> 0:54:31.759 But I'm a person who leads with love. I'm a 0:54:31.840 --> 0:54:34.799 human first above all else. But I also live in 0:54:34.840 --> 0:54:38.640 the real world and I deal with all the things 0:54:38.680 --> 0:54:39.239 that come with that. 0:54:39.360 --> 0:54:39.719 And so. 0:54:42.520 --> 0:54:48.080 There's a police officer I know. His name is Kevin Gilliland, uh, 0:54:48.480 --> 0:54:52.120 and he's not my best friend. So what I'm gonna 0:54:52.120 --> 0:54:55.280 say hopefully doesn't get him in trouble with his fellow officers. 0:54:55.320 --> 0:54:57.600 I know there's probably police listen that will know who 0:54:57.600 --> 0:55:05.160 I'm talking about. He's a sheriff's officer, excellent human being, 0:55:07.360 --> 0:55:11.400 excellent human being, a good man. I've been able to 0:55:11.440 --> 0:55:13.440 work with him a few times over the years, and 0:55:13.480 --> 0:55:16.720 he's the person that I have in mind every time 0:55:17.360 --> 0:55:22.000 I speak about the police, because I know that he 0:55:22.160 --> 0:55:25.240 is a human be has five kids, he is married, 0:55:25.960 --> 0:55:30.400 he's a good man. I used to work at a 0:55:30.600 --> 0:55:33.319 different radio station and he used to tune in and 0:55:33.360 --> 0:55:35.359 listen to me. When I had a chance, I would 0:55:35.360 --> 0:55:36.960 give him tickets so he could take his daughter to 0:55:37.040 --> 0:55:39.759 concerts and things like the police officer, you know, And 0:55:40.200 --> 0:55:42.399 we were able to work some events together, just kind 0:55:42.400 --> 0:55:45.960 of coincidentally, and he would talk to me about some 0:55:46.040 --> 0:55:50.319 of the things that he saw. He would ask me 0:55:50.400 --> 0:55:52.920 questions much in the same way that you would ask questions, 0:55:54.160 --> 0:55:58.080 not because he thought of me as some wise person 0:55:58.160 --> 0:56:01.560 because I don't profess to be, but because he considered 0:56:01.560 --> 0:56:03.120 me a person that he could talk to like. 0:56:03.080 --> 0:56:04.600 A friend or a neighbor. 0:56:07.239 --> 0:56:10.680 And in those conversations, I was able to learn who 0:56:10.719 --> 0:56:17.360 he was. And all throughout twenty twenty, at least for me, 0:56:17.680 --> 0:56:22.319 when all of these things started to come out into 0:56:22.360 --> 0:56:25.160 the forefront again, because you know, you got to remember, 0:56:25.200 --> 0:56:27.920 police killings have been happening in twenty twelve is when 0:56:27.920 --> 0:56:30.360 they started Black Lives Matter, because there were so many police. 0:56:30.120 --> 0:56:31.880 Killings before that for the year leading up to it. 0:56:32.000 --> 0:56:36.160 Yeah, and so you know, and then obviously it's just 0:56:36.360 --> 0:56:39.239 been recorded. This has always been the story, at least 0:56:39.239 --> 0:56:46.719 for black folks. But I recognize that you can be 0:56:46.760 --> 0:56:51.200 a good man and be a part of a system 0:56:51.280 --> 0:56:56.719 that is not perfect. And when it comes time to 0:56:56.840 --> 0:57:02.560 challenge an imperfect system, it in order to ensure it's survival, 0:57:02.680 --> 0:57:08.399 it will resist that, you know. And the one thing 0:57:08.400 --> 0:57:10.680 that I learned in my lifetime is that a person 0:57:10.719 --> 0:57:11.240 is smart. 0:57:11.440 --> 0:57:12.560 A person is brilliant. 0:57:13.400 --> 0:57:16.000 You know, we're the smartest things in the universe that 0:57:16.040 --> 0:57:19.560 we know of, but people are just about the dumbest 0:57:19.560 --> 0:57:22.800 things in people are dumb. A person is smart people 0:57:22.840 --> 0:57:25.280 are dumb in mass you know. And you know, there's 0:57:25.280 --> 0:57:27.720 this such thing as a mob mentality group into you know, 0:57:27.760 --> 0:57:32.120 these sorts of things where you know, Democrats don't have 0:57:32.200 --> 0:57:35.280 it all right, Yeah, but I vote Democrat every time. 0:57:35.480 --> 0:57:38.640 Republicans don't have it all right. But some people who 0:57:38.640 --> 0:57:41.560 would believe one thing, that there's one thing that the 0:57:41.720 --> 0:57:44.960 Republican Party stands on and that's their thing, they have 0:57:45.040 --> 0:57:50.080 to vote Republican, even though the rest of that completely 0:57:50.640 --> 0:57:52.240 flies in the face of what they actually believe. 0:57:52.400 --> 0:57:54.240 Yeah, it's funny though, and I guess it depends on 0:57:54.280 --> 0:57:56.400 how you look at it. If you're on a trivia show, 0:57:56.920 --> 0:57:59.520 you know, remember that Who Wants to Be a Millionaire 0:57:59.560 --> 0:58:02.240 show that the number one way to get the question 0:58:02.360 --> 0:58:04.800 right was pulled the audience, you know. Yeah, that worked 0:58:04.960 --> 0:58:07.640 way more than reducing the other options and taking a 0:58:07.640 --> 0:58:09.880 good guess and all that other stuff. So people in 0:58:10.080 --> 0:58:15.800 like I always say, this human being is creation's most 0:58:15.800 --> 0:58:18.640 beautiful and most ugly creature. You know, we do some 0:58:18.680 --> 0:58:20.840 of the most amazing, artistic, beautiful things, and we do 0:58:20.880 --> 0:58:24.760 some of the ugliest tacks. And it's hard to reconcile 0:58:24.800 --> 0:58:26.880 the fact that we are both of those things all 0:58:26.880 --> 0:58:27.640 in one package. 0:58:28.280 --> 0:58:31.440 Well, we're just going to have to figure out a 0:58:31.440 --> 0:58:32.920 way to do it. But I think that we can 0:58:33.000 --> 0:58:35.040 and if twenty twenty has taught us anything, that I 0:58:35.120 --> 0:58:36.840 think is that we can learn and we can grow. 0:58:37.000 --> 0:58:39.680 But that's about all the time that we have for 0:58:39.800 --> 0:58:41.960 today's episode. Thank you Ian Basquez for sitting with me 0:58:42.000 --> 0:58:44.800 on Civic Cipher. Once again, I'm your host, Ramsy's job 0:58:44.840 --> 0:58:46.600 and if you want to support the show, please visit 0:58:46.640 --> 0:58:49.640 civiccipher dot com. You can donate, you can submit questions 0:58:49.640 --> 0:58:51.880 and topics, and of course follow all of our social 0:58:51.960 --> 0:58:55.240 media and we will check you out next week, same time, 0:58:55.280 --> 0:58:57.800 same channel, right here on Civic Cipher. Until then, take 0:58:57.840 --> 0:58:58.880 care of yourselves.