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Speaker 1: Trust me, you don't want to hear my voice anymore.

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Speaker 1: Hey there, welcome to another episode of Thinking Sideways. This week,

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Speaker 1: we're going to talk about another mysterious mystery. But first,

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Speaker 1: let me tell you my name. I'm Joe. Across from

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Speaker 1: me to my right is and other right is Steve. Okay,

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Speaker 1: pretty much, we're just both in front of you, so yeah,

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Speaker 1: pretty much. Okay, So our mysterious mystery. This week we're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about the strange death of or think

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Speaker 1: the story this one yet I don't. I don't know why,

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Speaker 1: but but it's time. Fine this This is a classic,

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Speaker 1: really is it really is? It's probably a lot of

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Speaker 1: you guys have heard of it already. This happened in

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Speaker 1: New York City. I feel like it's one of those

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Speaker 1: stories where we all kind of think, oh, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: should do that. I'm not quite ready yet. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: so classic. I'm not quite right to quite ready yet.

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Speaker 1: And Joe was just like, whatever, I'm doing it, Oh,

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Speaker 1: this is on the list, Okay, cool, I'll run about

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Speaker 1: it by Yeah, I just running over with a tank

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Speaker 1: or great. Yeah, it's it's got but it's got a

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Speaker 1: lot of cool stuff. It's got some egget to Christie

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Speaker 1: you kind of twist and a nice murder and it's

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Speaker 1: like a locked room mystery, locked room genuine. Yeah. And actually, uh,

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Speaker 1: it has got a lot of publicity at the time. Actually,

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Speaker 1: a couple of big time crime writers wrote wrote fictional

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Speaker 1: stories based on it, and there was a movie based

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Speaker 1: on it too. I think, yeah, so it's at least

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Speaker 1: one if not, and you know, who knows. I mean,

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Speaker 1: how many other stories it might have inspired. It's like

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Speaker 1: there's not that many real life locked room mysteries. This

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Speaker 1: is definitely one of those Colonel situations. Is the kernel

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Speaker 1: of a lot of things. Yeah, we've done We've done

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Speaker 1: one other one and that's really it was at La Plaza. No,

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Speaker 1: it was, I did it nothing. She started talking about

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Speaker 1: locked room. She's talking about stories that are Colonel. So

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about a lot of What was the one

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Speaker 1: with the woman who may or may not have poisoned

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Speaker 1: her husband who was like twenty years older than her. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I did this one too, or that it was in London, right, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: yeah that was Williams or something. Oh god, what was it?

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Speaker 1: What was that name? Yeah, yeah, I know on you're

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Speaker 1: talking about. Yeah, okay, yeah, wow. I'm usually really good

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Speaker 1: at us. I actually don't because by the time you

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Speaker 1: hear this figured it out. The murder of Julia Wallace, Yes,

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Speaker 1: that's it. Yeah, okay, so Julia Wallace and then that's

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Speaker 1: also a good lockroom mystery La Plaza. Yeah. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's some out there, but you know, I don't think

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Speaker 1: those are as great as this one is the best. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's so so awesome. Nobody ever actually spends much

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Speaker 1: time wondering who actually killed is it or a Fank?

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Speaker 1: They just want to know, They just want to know

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Speaker 1: how they did it, whoever it was and killed him. First,

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Speaker 1: I want to give a shout out to our listener Emily,

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Speaker 1: who suggested this story a long long time ago, like

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Speaker 1: three years ago. I thank so thanks Emily. And now

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Speaker 1: into her story. First, is it or Fank? He was

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Speaker 1: a Polish immigrant to America. He was thirty years old

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Speaker 1: when he died. He owned a small laundry in Upper

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Speaker 1: New York City, Like you know, like, oh God, where

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Speaker 1: it was it? I think I had her in thirty

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Speaker 1: second Street. Which neighborhood is that because I'm really bad

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Speaker 1: with my New York geography because it is neighborhood upon

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Speaker 1: the neighborhood that's Upper Manhattan. So I don't know, is

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Speaker 1: that Harlem hundred seconds? That might? I feel like it

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Speaker 1: was different. I'm not sure it was. Yeah, I mean yeah,

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Speaker 1: but you know that it's still there. I believe it

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Speaker 1: or not. I don't know. I don't know the same building.

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Speaker 1: It looks like kind of an old bill New York,

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Speaker 1: New York this recording, who knows in you know, three weeks. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: back to istor. So he had a small laundry, uh,

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Speaker 1: and it was one of those ground floor things in

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Speaker 1: the department buildings. So he had an apartment that was

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Speaker 1: right there attached to. So it was like like everything

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Speaker 1: in Portland right now where it's just like retail on

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Speaker 1: the bottom and the apartments on the top. Yeah, kind

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Speaker 1: of like that. Yeah, typical condensed Yeah, yeah, I density stuff,

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Speaker 1: but urban dwelling. But to his apartment was on the

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Speaker 1: ground floor, attached to Yeah, I believe it was on

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Speaker 1: the ground floor when there was there was an exit,

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Speaker 1: there was a door connecting the business in the apartment,

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Speaker 1: makes sense. Yeah. And it was a laundry like people

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Speaker 1: would It wasn't like a laundry mat. It was like

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Speaker 1: a dry cleaning kind of that kind of thing where

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Speaker 1: people stuff drop, drop the stuff off. And that was

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Speaker 1: more typical in the in the you know, early nineteen

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Speaker 1: hundreds where the clothes were hard to wash. Well, that's

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Speaker 1: typical anywhere that isn't a Western civilization or Western country

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Speaker 1: where we have washers and dryers that we keep in

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Speaker 1: our homes are in some place. I mean, you go

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Speaker 1: to anywhere outside of the first world, and it's some

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Speaker 1: place where everybody takes their stuff and somebody watched. And

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Speaker 1: some places I've gone to actually people just take their

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Speaker 1: stuff down to the river and wash it down there. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I went to places where they were they were thrown

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Speaker 1: all by laundry in a machine and hanging it on

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Speaker 1: showed up like that's my drawers can have those In

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Speaker 1: the early nineteen hundreds, you guys probably know this is

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Speaker 1: my little tiny tangent. But the way that they made closes.

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Speaker 1: You know, everything had detachable collars and cuffs for the

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Speaker 1: dirty and so you could hand wash those. They were

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Speaker 1: really easy to hand wash at home. And then you

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Speaker 1: would have to take your shirt every two weeks, your

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Speaker 1: pants every two or whatever you know, to be actually cleaned.

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Speaker 1: And so you know that the sink in your house

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Speaker 1: was not big enough to hold that garment while wet.

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Speaker 1: You could hold the cuff in the collar, but that

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Speaker 1: was it. And your little armpit pads, because they do

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Speaker 1: have that, I mean dress dress pads and stuff like

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Speaker 1: I was wondering what for me after two weeks of

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Speaker 1: wearing a shirt, what the arm pits would look like. Well, also,

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Speaker 1: things just were smellier back people were diffused to it.

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Speaker 1: But you also didn't throw your stuff in a dirty hamper.

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Speaker 1: You hung it. That was the thing is if you

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Speaker 1: hang sweaty clothes, a little vodka spray on those. They're

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Speaker 1: great vodka sp If you mix vodka and water together

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Speaker 1: and spray your clothes, it will totally deodorize. To waste

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Speaker 1: a good vodka. No, you just think you buy the bad. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're anyway. I'm sorry. I just like clothes. I don't

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Speaker 1: want to. Yeah, I know you do, but you've learned

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Speaker 1: a lot more that you wanted to know about laundry.

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Speaker 1: But back to our murder here. It was a night

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Speaker 1: of Saturday in March ninth, is it our think, made

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Speaker 1: a few laundry deliveries, and then he went home for

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Speaker 1: the night. I think it was around nine or ten,

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Speaker 1: locked himself in because he was a cautious type, if

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Speaker 1: not even a little bit paranoid. But on the other hand,

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Speaker 1: he did live in a fairly crime ridden neighborhood. Robbery

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Speaker 1: was pretty common, so his behavior wasn't crazy tintfoil out

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Speaker 1: there or anything like that. And then his laundry itself,

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Speaker 1: you know, and his apartment. I have no idea how

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Speaker 1: big they were. I assumed they were pretty small. I

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Speaker 1: think they The sense I had was that they were

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Speaker 1: comparable sizes to each other. Yeah, you know, but it

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Speaker 1: was like a half and half space. But I but

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Speaker 1: it seems like a like a maybe max one bedroom more.

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Speaker 1: But that's the thing that I've never understood is like

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Speaker 1: square footage. I've never seen anything that said it was

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Speaker 1: a hundred were foot and a hundred square foot or

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Speaker 1: five hundred and five. And I'm making these numbers out well,

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Speaker 1: all I can assume is all I from what I

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Speaker 1: know about current New York living situations. That can't have

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Speaker 1: been bigger the most New York apartments these days. And

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Speaker 1: would you say, would you say an easy average number

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Speaker 1: is five hundred square foot business? And this speculations, Okay,

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Speaker 1: that's a problem a lot of Yeah, the and I

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Speaker 1: think it was doing some of the work in his

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Speaker 1: apartment to you would problem if it was open, which

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Speaker 1: is also a question for me. Where they bisected so

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Speaker 1: that the business portion was separated from the living portion

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Speaker 1: or was it one open space and there was snow division.

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Speaker 1: I believe they were separated like by a door or

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Speaker 1: something like that. I got the impression of like, you know,

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Speaker 1: motel rooms that connect with a door kind of like

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Speaker 1: you know, but other than that, you know, that's uh,

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Speaker 1: there's not enough information out there for a story that's

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Speaker 1: been written about as much as this one has specifics

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Speaker 1: like that are possible to come by. I did some

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Speaker 1: looking special looking just to see if anybody had ever

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Speaker 1: written a book about this or anything like that I

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Speaker 1: could find. I couldn't find anything. And there were some

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Speaker 1: New York Times articles about it. I tried to find

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Speaker 1: some of those. They're not available on the eater webs unfortunately.

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Speaker 1: So you know, there's just no I'd love to see

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Speaker 1: some drawings and more pictures and stuff like that, but

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Speaker 1: any kind of measurements of any kind would be really helpful. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I don't know. So so, so can you explain,

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Speaker 1: I mean, now getting getting away from that bit of tangent,

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Speaker 1: which is my fault, but because I brought it up

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Speaker 1: before the recording, But like, what were the kind of

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Speaker 1: precautions that kind of semi paranoid level. Yeah, I don't

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Speaker 1: know if this was you know, ultra paranoid even, but

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Speaker 1: he had apparently had extra bolts on his doors and

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Speaker 1: his windows were nailed shut, and I'm not sure what

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Speaker 1: that means. Okay, yeah, I was gonna ask, like nailed hut,

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Speaker 1: Like you know, like you know, you have a couple

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Speaker 1: of nails in to hold the door or to hold

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Speaker 1: the window panes closed, or you've like nailed over. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think nailed shut is in what I think it

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Speaker 1: probably was. I mean, you know, it's like, you know,

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Speaker 1: he could it could have meant that he took a

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Speaker 1: hammer and nails and actually just wanged away until he

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Speaker 1: had nails driven into his windows and they were never

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Speaker 1: open again. But more likely, it's really common, and it's

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Speaker 1: even in my house. I've got this with my wooden

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Speaker 1: double doubles hung windows. If you drill a hole through

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Speaker 1: the wood and then you put a long nail in

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Speaker 1: there so that people can't open it from the outside,

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Speaker 1: it's a block. Yeah. Yeah, it's extra security advice. Similarly

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Speaker 1: with people, yeah, with like sliding doors where people put

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Speaker 1: the piece of wood, Yeah, exactly, so that you can't

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Speaker 1: open it's like that, right, Yeah, exactly, That's what I

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Speaker 1: would also assume. But sometimes, you know, somebody says nailed shut,

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Speaker 1: and I think they've totally boarded up their windows. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: or they've nailed six hundred nails and bent them all

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Speaker 1: over sideways because yeah, yeah, and so I think in

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Speaker 1: this case he probably just drilled holes, but he might

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Speaker 1: have driven a nail or two in there too. Mean,

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Speaker 1: that's that's one way to do it, you know. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but it settles the issue permanently so well, except for

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Speaker 1: a few women have single pane windows are pretty easy

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00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:10,760
Speaker 1: to break in, but you know, whatever, good point, But

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00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:12,480
Speaker 1: then people gotta like, you know, they gotta break through

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00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:14,360
Speaker 1: the window, and then because they can't reach in and

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00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:16,640
Speaker 1: unlatch it and slide the window up, and they have

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00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:19,960
Speaker 1: to crawl through an open broken glass. And if you're

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Speaker 1: not panel windows situation, that's even because because because here's

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Speaker 1: the thing is that having a single pane of glass,

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Speaker 1: a big pane of glass, if you can pop a

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00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,800
Speaker 1: hole in it, you can kind of quietly break bits

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00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:37,319
Speaker 1: of that glass away once you've got a hole in it.

225
00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:40,240
Speaker 1: But if it's got the wooden lattice in it, you

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00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:44,400
Speaker 1: know where it's sheet becomes six panels. Now you've got

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Speaker 1: to break the wood away, and that's a lot more effort,

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00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:49,880
Speaker 1: a lot more obviously, a lot louder. So I say

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00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:54,000
Speaker 1: windows were divided. I just always assumed that, like, you know,

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Speaker 1: these guys that we're sitting next to you, single pane, huge,

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Speaker 1: huge sheet, it's probably, yeah, probably that would be the

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Speaker 1: cheapest way. You know, probably this was cheap housing. Probably

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Speaker 1: as far as as far as stealths goes, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I uh, I don't think burglars these days, at least,

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Speaker 1: they don't really bother to try to be stealthy if

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Speaker 1: they just kick your door down. But he just assumed that,

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Speaker 1: I mean, usually the case a place, right, they just

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Speaker 1: decide if you're not home, it doesn't matter. Yeah, they're

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00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:23,680
Speaker 1: gonna break in and they're gonna take yeah. So yeah, anyway,

240
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Speaker 1: but okay, so sorry. So yeah, he's got the extra bolts.

241
00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:32,200
Speaker 1: And there's no information really about what kind of bolts

242
00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:34,120
Speaker 1: he had in his door, where they key operated dead

243
00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:37,400
Speaker 1: bolts orhere they just sliders, sliders. I mean, I don't know.

244
00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:40,960
Speaker 1: I think they might have been sliders, although we'll get

245
00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:44,160
Speaker 1: more into that second here. But so's he's home for

246
00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:47,080
Speaker 1: the night, locked in and everything, and about ten thirty pm,

247
00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:51,679
Speaker 1: his neighbor, a woman named Mrs Locklin Smith, heard sounds

248
00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:54,319
Speaker 1: of a scuffle as in fighting, uh and and in

249
00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:57,800
Speaker 1: a kind of a thud, but no gunshots. She ran

250
00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:00,600
Speaker 1: out to find a policeman and brings a patrol woman back.

251
00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:04,200
Speaker 1: His name was apparently Albert Captain Vane or Captain Born,

252
00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:06,800
Speaker 1: depending on the Virgin he read. He comes back to

253
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Speaker 1: the building and he bangs in the door, gets no

254
00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:12,600
Speaker 1: answer from Mr Fink. Uh, And I started trying the doors.

255
00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:14,080
Speaker 1: If there were at least two doors in the apartment.

256
00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:15,640
Speaker 1: I think there was one in the hall, maybe one

257
00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:17,760
Speaker 1: in the laundry. I'm not sure that was the impression

258
00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:20,760
Speaker 1: or maybe. Yeah, And so he tried how he got

259
00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:23,640
Speaker 1: into the laundry and not I'm not sure about that either. Yeah,

260
00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:25,920
Speaker 1: but apparently there was there was at least well, obviously

261
00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:28,079
Speaker 1: there's at least one door. But I most of the

262
00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:30,560
Speaker 1: reversions said there were two doors into the apartment, but

263
00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:32,800
Speaker 1: the doors were locked from the inside. The windows, as

264
00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:36,319
Speaker 1: I said, nailed shut. Uh and the windows reportedly were

265
00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:39,120
Speaker 1: not broken also, but they're the only thing that was opened.

266
00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:41,840
Speaker 1: There was a transom window above the front door. You

267
00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:43,600
Speaker 1: know what a transom window is, right, I was gonna say,

268
00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:46,960
Speaker 1: you need to explain that for folks. Yeah, old and

269
00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:50,160
Speaker 1: older buildings in some houses and stuff, there's like a

270
00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:53,800
Speaker 1: doorway and then a whole separate frame window above the door.

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00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:59,640
Speaker 1: That's just the same with nine. Yeah, it's just right

272
00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:02,000
Speaker 1: over the depending on the heights the door. Yeah, doors

273
00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:06,960
Speaker 1: are usually six seven ft high, so yeah, they're usually like, yeah,

274
00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:12,680
Speaker 1: seven I think about seven ft yeah, typically what the

275
00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:19,120
Speaker 1: door is. And so there they're the same width typically

276
00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:21,600
Speaker 1: as the door, but they're not very high. They're kind

277
00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:24,200
Speaker 1: of like, you know, not not terribly high, and they're

278
00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:26,560
Speaker 1: usually usually are hinged like in the middle. So it's

279
00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:28,920
Speaker 1: a frame. It's a it's a wood frame with glass

280
00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:31,200
Speaker 1: in it and hinged in the middle so it can

281
00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:34,080
Speaker 1: be rotated, and the whole idea is just to provide ventilation.

282
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Speaker 1: You have un doubted you as you know what this is.

283
00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:40,080
Speaker 1: Even if you don't think you know what this is.

284
00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:43,080
Speaker 1: You know what this window is. You've seen it mostly

285
00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:45,360
Speaker 1: like older hotels and things like that, they don't think

286
00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:49,440
Speaker 1: it's a It's a window that is hinged along it's

287
00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:55,480
Speaker 1: horizontal center line, and it typically pivots in towards the

288
00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:59,200
Speaker 1: room that it is opening up into and out towards

289
00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:01,360
Speaker 1: the space where if you're outside of the spooks looking

290
00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:04,560
Speaker 1: at so that the hot air on the outside the

291
00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:06,760
Speaker 1: inside of the room can float out along the roof

292
00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:10,080
Speaker 1: or the ceiling and cooler air can then because it's

293
00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:13,200
Speaker 1: it's for ventilation. Yeah, it totally is. Yeah, And so

294
00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:15,400
Speaker 1: so you had one of those, uh, and it was

295
00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:18,840
Speaker 1: not open at least on the latch. Apparently kind of

296
00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:20,960
Speaker 1: a lapse on is the doors part. But you know,

297
00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:24,880
Speaker 1: maybe it's kind of high and besides what, she probably

298
00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:27,640
Speaker 1: didn't think burglars were likely to come into it because frankly,

299
00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:30,880
Speaker 1: an adult couldn't fit through this window. Speaking of adults,

300
00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:34,240
Speaker 1: as I said, the windows, the windows were nailed shut,

301
00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:36,280
Speaker 1: doors were locked, but the trans and window was open.

302
00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:39,520
Speaker 1: So opposite Captain Bain, apparently some people, you know, this

303
00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:42,640
Speaker 1: is like back in the day, people didn't have internet

304
00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:45,280
Speaker 1: or TV, and so when anything looked like it was happening,

305
00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:48,840
Speaker 1: people would immediately Yeah, I started rubber necking. So he

306
00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:50,640
Speaker 1: founds in the crowd. In the crowd, he finds a

307
00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:54,120
Speaker 1: small boy and boost them up and threw the transom opening.

308
00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:56,000
Speaker 1: So the kick and dropped on the other side and

309
00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:59,240
Speaker 1: unbolted door and let him and let him in. But

310
00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:02,160
Speaker 1: it had to be a right, So that's important. Yeah,

311
00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:04,400
Speaker 1: the kid was because it's a very small opening. I know,

312
00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:07,120
Speaker 1: no adult could fit through. I couldn't even I'm a

313
00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:10,520
Speaker 1: little Maybe could if you really try, I'd have to

314
00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:15,960
Speaker 1: lose some weight. Yeah, there'd be some contortion. Yeah, but yeah,

315
00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:19,320
Speaker 1: so realistically, it couldn't be a normal size of human.

316
00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:22,200
Speaker 1: And I'm a small, normal size, small human. No, yeah,

317
00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:24,840
Speaker 1: you are small, but yeah, definitely it's a kid thing

318
00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:32,320
Speaker 1: or extremely emaciated adults existing. Yeah, So the kid goes

319
00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:35,760
Speaker 1: in and unlocks the door, the police come in, come in,

320
00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:38,160
Speaker 1: and then and they find Isador Fink laying on the

321
00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:41,720
Speaker 1: floor dead. Three gunshot wounds, one of which was in

322
00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:44,160
Speaker 1: his left wrist or hand depending on the version of read.

323
00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:46,360
Speaker 1: But this one had and this one had powder burns

324
00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:49,200
Speaker 1: on it. So a close range shot, like maybe even

325
00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:51,840
Speaker 1: a contact shot. So like, yeah, and we've talked about

326
00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:55,320
Speaker 1: this before, but to get that kind of powder burn

327
00:16:55,520 --> 00:17:02,920
Speaker 1: the gun has to be ballpark about half of float away. Yeah,

328
00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:05,880
Speaker 1: it's got to be super duper close for the powder

329
00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:08,560
Speaker 1: to actually be hot enough to burn the skin as well. Yeah,

330
00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:11,080
Speaker 1: and at a little bit more distance, even I have

331
00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:13,680
Speaker 1: a couple of feet, you'll get particles of gunpowder like,

332
00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:16,600
Speaker 1: but it won't be a burn yeah, but yeah, but

333
00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:19,040
Speaker 1: if you want to so this was this was my

334
00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:25,080
Speaker 1: possibly even a contact yeah right, like a yea almost

335
00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:31,000
Speaker 1: suggests maybe a struggle that does hand. Hand wounds generally do, right,

336
00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:34,000
Speaker 1: they usually are defensive nature. So yeah, it's like, oh,

337
00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:37,240
Speaker 1: please don't shoot peas. But you know, and I guess,

338
00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:39,359
Speaker 1: I mean, depending on the gun, maybe that'll stop it,

339
00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:45,320
Speaker 1: it won't. Martha Wayne scenario Yeah of Martha Wayne for batman. Okay,

340
00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:52,040
Speaker 1: oh that's right, I'm there. Yeah, thank you? Who never

341
00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:56,000
Speaker 1: heard of such a thing? A man that is a bat? Yeah,

342
00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:59,240
Speaker 1: flies around at night with echo location. Saw the best

343
00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:03,840
Speaker 1: comic today, which was Young Bruce Wayne falls down the

344
00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:07,560
Speaker 1: well hole that he falls down, but instead of a

345
00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:13,720
Speaker 1: horde of bats, it's a horde of rats. Then twenty

346
00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:17,199
Speaker 1: years later, it's rat man sitting on a precipice in

347
00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:22,040
Speaker 1: a building, just looking miserable. And you've seen that, You've

348
00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:25,919
Speaker 1: seen the man bat man one right, where it actually

349
00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:28,600
Speaker 1: a bat who's choosing to be a man, who's actually

350
00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:32,680
Speaker 1: man bat. I like it, sorry, sorry, but part of

351
00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:36,280
Speaker 1: the way yeah, yeah, yeah, back, we've got a bullet

352
00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:39,080
Speaker 1: hole in his hand with burn marks. Yeah, with burn

353
00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:43,080
Speaker 1: marks and then two in his chest, which apparently caught

354
00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:46,320
Speaker 1: in the medical medical examiner should have killed him instantly

355
00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:49,439
Speaker 1: and probably did kill him instant. So likely the hand

356
00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:53,000
Speaker 1: was first, Yeah, when the chest was second. Yeah, there's

357
00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:55,000
Speaker 1: not much point in shooting somebody did and then shooting

358
00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:58,400
Speaker 1: in the hand too, you know, right, or you wanted

359
00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:00,960
Speaker 1: to appear as though there was a struggle or it's

360
00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:04,920
Speaker 1: And it's also conceivable, depending on the kind of gun

361
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:07,520
Speaker 1: that was used, maybe he only fired two shots and

362
00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:11,400
Speaker 1: one world the hand was over the chest, hand into

363
00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:13,800
Speaker 1: the chest. But but so do we know which side

364
00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:17,160
Speaker 1: of the hand the burns were on. Yeah, See, that's frustrating,

365
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:20,000
Speaker 1: like freaking details of the story that killed me. That's

366
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:22,160
Speaker 1: an important one, right, If if the hand was over

367
00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:25,000
Speaker 1: the chest, it'd be on the outside, just for people

368
00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:27,080
Speaker 1: who are having arts and visually thin things. But if

369
00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:33,240
Speaker 1: it was a defensive yeah, yeah, I know, it would

370
00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:35,520
Speaker 1: be good to know, and maybe someday I want to know.

371
00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:36,920
Speaker 1: Next time I'm back in New York, I'm going to

372
00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:39,560
Speaker 1: go to the NYPD and demand the records. Listen, I was.

373
00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:42,640
Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time in the New York

374
00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:47,640
Speaker 1: Times archives, very upset because there was so many articles

375
00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:50,520
Speaker 1: that looked like they might be related not but yeah,

376
00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:53,159
Speaker 1: not quite well no, No, The problem is I couldn't

377
00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:56,760
Speaker 1: read the articles because it turns out from the late

378
00:19:57,080 --> 00:20:03,720
Speaker 1: eighteen nineties to anyone are free to read anything after

379
00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:06,719
Speaker 1: that requires a membership, which is paid and is at

380
00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:10,120
Speaker 1: an exorbitant amount of money. And I was very mad

381
00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:13,600
Speaker 1: because I kept having these threads and then I couldn't

382
00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:18,560
Speaker 1: ever get in there to confident that somebody we know

383
00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:21,080
Speaker 1: has a membership, So we should, I hope so, and

384
00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:22,720
Speaker 1: if they do, they need to find it and send

385
00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:28,160
Speaker 1: it to us. So. But so the windows were closed

386
00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:30,120
Speaker 1: and locked, and the door was locked, and the only

387
00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:33,160
Speaker 1: thing that was open was that that one tiny little

388
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:38,520
Speaker 1: window window. So that the initial conclusion, obviously that you

389
00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:42,280
Speaker 1: would draw is he killed himself. No, yeah, I mean

390
00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:46,960
Speaker 1: I don't know anybody who shoots themselves in the hands

391
00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:50,040
Speaker 1: always an obviously conclusion. But yeah, I mean if there's

392
00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:55,920
Speaker 1: no yeah, it could there's no gun that that that

393
00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:58,520
Speaker 1: screws the whole thing up. There's no gun. Speaking of

394
00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:00,520
Speaker 1: shooting yourself in the hand, I I think I once

395
00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:02,879
Speaker 1: who had shot himself accidentally through the hand and then

396
00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:04,960
Speaker 1: shot himself twice in the chest. No, he didn't do that.

397
00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:08,640
Speaker 1: It was an I'm not saying, screwed up and shot

398
00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:11,440
Speaker 1: himself in the hand and then okay, so it doesn't matter,

399
00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:13,439
Speaker 1: I'm going to kill myself anyway back. But also like,

400
00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:17,200
Speaker 1: maybe this is off topic, maybe this is going too fast,

401
00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:20,639
Speaker 1: but I just who you don't I don't know the

402
00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:22,919
Speaker 1: statistics behind this, but I feel like most people who

403
00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:24,840
Speaker 1: would try to kill themselves with the gun don't shoot

404
00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:27,840
Speaker 1: themselves in the chest. Yeah, that's an awkward I mean,

405
00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:31,000
Speaker 1: we've actually had this conversation before. It is a very

406
00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:34,880
Speaker 1: difficult and awkward angle. But more than that, you would

407
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:38,200
Speaker 1: usual people who do it don't usually use their trigger finger.

408
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:41,560
Speaker 1: They use their thumb because they have to backwards face.

409
00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:44,440
Speaker 1: But even more than that, the gun would be right there.

410
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:47,520
Speaker 1: So well that's the problem. That's a gun murderer. But

411
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:50,040
Speaker 1: so yeah, it's looking like murder. But then that that

412
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:54,000
Speaker 1: opens up another can of worms. Looking around the apartment,

413
00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:58,800
Speaker 1: there was nothing missing except for his Maltese sculpture. Yeah,

414
00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:02,239
Speaker 1: it's that real at the Maltese. Yeah, of course it's real.

415
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:04,360
Speaker 1: What they made a movie about it. I'm just but

416
00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:07,719
Speaker 1: but what did you really have a Maltese He did not.

417
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,760
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I just want to be very clear. Yeah,

418
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:12,720
Speaker 1: that's just I'm just joking. Yeah, I know it would

419
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:16,440
Speaker 1: be great, that it would be amazing, I know, but now, uh,

420
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:18,840
Speaker 1: you never know, maybe there was something like that in

421
00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:21,320
Speaker 1: there that got taken. I don't know. Yeah, it didn't

422
00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:24,080
Speaker 1: seem like he had a lot of close personal friends

423
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:26,359
Speaker 1: or connections that would be able to really vouch for.

424
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:28,359
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, the police that it didn't seem

425
00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:30,560
Speaker 1: like anything was missing, but like, how do they know,

426
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:35,399
Speaker 1: I mean dust marks. Usually if you don't know what

427
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:38,760
Speaker 1: is in the house originally, you don't know what he's missing.

428
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:40,800
Speaker 1: Could be hard. It's hard to say, you know, because

429
00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:42,920
Speaker 1: he had a painting on the wall for ten years

430
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:47,359
Speaker 1: and there's that till ring around it. Yeah. In this case,

431
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:51,760
Speaker 1: they concluded robbery wasn't the motive because he had money

432
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:53,680
Speaker 1: in his pockets and also he had a cash drawer

433
00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:56,480
Speaker 1: that for the laundry that had cash in it. So

434
00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,320
Speaker 1: they concluded that robbery was not the motive. Although on

435
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:01,879
Speaker 1: the other hand, you know, on he knows, but so

436
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:05,360
Speaker 1: they ruled out robbery um and they found no fingerprints

437
00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:08,639
Speaker 1: on the cri crency, except for isidor thinks uh he

438
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,760
Speaker 1: uh typically didn't let people in that he didn't know

439
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:15,080
Speaker 1: because he was security conscious. The room was not all

440
00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:18,640
Speaker 1: that's a political term, that's a politically correct term from

441
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:22,320
Speaker 1: what he was. Yeah, a little paranoid, but well else

442
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:24,440
Speaker 1: the room was not all torn up from a struggle

443
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:27,000
Speaker 1: or anything like that. So there wasn't a huge thing.

444
00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:31,520
Speaker 1: But his iron had been left on. He was apparently

445
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:34,320
Speaker 1: doing some late night ironing and for his business. Hard

446
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:38,399
Speaker 1: working guy, and so his iron was turned on sitting

447
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,520
Speaker 1: on the ironing board. Question, Yeah, was it an electric

448
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:44,080
Speaker 1: iron iron? It was a gas iron, and I don't

449
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:45,959
Speaker 1: know how that works, So that's that's what I had.

450
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:47,520
Speaker 1: One place I read it was a gas so it

451
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:49,159
Speaker 1: wasn't like one of the old time ones that you

452
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:52,320
Speaker 1: would heat over front of plane. I presumed that that's

453
00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:56,119
Speaker 1: what they meant by a gas iron stove. And it

454
00:23:56,240 --> 00:24:00,719
Speaker 1: was an o steel iron all And then he ended

455
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:02,879
Speaker 1: up and then that's probably that's what. I don't know

456
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,359
Speaker 1: one that came out with electric I do not believe

457
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 1: that there was ever such a thing as a gas iron.

458
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 1: I believe that it is what Devon is saying that's

459
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:18,440
Speaker 1: what I would think, which also I don't think so.

460
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:23,080
Speaker 1: But that also that also takes credit away from the

461
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:26,560
Speaker 1: statements about how long that gas iron was out because

462
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 1: we don't know how hot that device was when he

463
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 1: used it. Well, a gas iron won't scorch fabric. It'll

464
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 1: score the time that it is the hottest. Sorry, I know,

465
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:41,560
Speaker 1: I'm jumping ahead a little bit because the next thing, well,

466
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 1: the next thing you were going to say, I know

467
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:45,359
Speaker 1: because of your script, was that you know, but iron

468
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,040
Speaker 1: had not had time to scorch the fabric, right, So

469
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:50,679
Speaker 1: that was supposed to set a timeline. And I'm about

470
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 1: to do some googling. But if it is the kind

471
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 1: of old time iron that we're talking about, where you

472
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,399
Speaker 1: set it on a heat source and then you put it,

473
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,639
Speaker 1: the time that it it is most likely to scorch

474
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 1: the fabric is when you first because that's cool. Yeah,

475
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,439
Speaker 1: And so even if it's sat on there for a

476
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 1: long period of time without moving, it's going to continue

477
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 1: to cool. It's not going to eventually scorch. It will

478
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,160
Speaker 1: starch immediately or not at all. That's where electric irons

479
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 1: burned things because they are continually at a consistent temperature yeah, temperature.

480
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 1: That's in my case, it is always too hot because

481
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:29,679
Speaker 1: it messes up everything I have. But I don't know

482
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 1: why you do that. It's easy shirts. Yeah, and your socks, Man,

483
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,360
Speaker 1: socks don't need a crease. There are people do that.

484
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:41,560
Speaker 1: I met a guy wants to obviously ironed his blue

485
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:43,640
Speaker 1: jeans because he had a nice sharp crease and down

486
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:46,200
Speaker 1: the front of his blue jeans. Have I not ever

487
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:48,400
Speaker 1: talked about the cowboys that I used to hang out

488
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 1: with that had that. That was a thing in the nineties,

489
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:55,200
Speaker 1: was your wranglers had to have a create a seam

490
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 1: in the front. And there were guys that you could

491
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 1: tell those paths had been ironed a hundred times and

492
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 1: could never ever be ironed again, and they would still

493
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:09,119
Speaker 1: have a hard ridge down the front. Yeah. No, And

494
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:11,639
Speaker 1: it's a thing. Okay, I guess it was a thing.

495
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 1: It's a fashion thing. I don't get that. Devon might,

496
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 1: but I don't know that shows you ignant. I am okay, alright,

497
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 1: So anyway, but enough about the iron But you know,

498
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 1: it looks like though he was still doing some work.

499
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 1: He's doing some work. He's interrupted, he's killed. But robbery

500
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:29,719
Speaker 1: or burglary was not the motive, and so police were

501
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 1: puzzled about this. They talked to everybody he knew, which is,

502
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:35,880
Speaker 1: you know, the customers and neighbors and stuff like that. Um,

503
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,640
Speaker 1: and he had no known enemies as far as anybody knew.

504
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:40,359
Speaker 1: And of course, as I always said, we tell it,

505
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 1: we really don't know that nothing was taken. I mean,

506
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:44,920
Speaker 1: there might have been something really valuable in there, and

507
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 1: so it was maybe it's something so valuable the killer

508
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,400
Speaker 1: grabbed it and didn't bother looking for anything else to take.

509
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 1: But uh, there's another story that we're going to be

510
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:58,439
Speaker 1: covering soon that I have the same question, which is

511
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:02,399
Speaker 1: the perpetrated or may have found the initial stash or

512
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:06,920
Speaker 1: a stash of many and thinking I found the treasure trove,

513
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 1: booked it but didn't get all of the treasure because

514
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 1: they left too soon. That's why. That's why when you're

515
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:15,639
Speaker 1: hiding your treasure, your cash, whatever, you don't put it

516
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 1: all in one place. Yeah, you know, you don't want

517
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,879
Speaker 1: to do that. Too many eggs in one basket exactly.

518
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:26,159
Speaker 1: But of course, Uh, the one thing they found out

519
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:29,360
Speaker 1: from talking to everybody is that they said, especially as customers,

520
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:31,200
Speaker 1: they said he'd been a little paranoid for about the

521
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:33,440
Speaker 1: past year. He said he kept his door locked even

522
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:36,440
Speaker 1: during business hours. Uh, and he would only let people

523
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 1: in that he recognized. And he told that it can't

524
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 1: be conducive to a profitable business. Well, it's kind of

525
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 1: annoying for your customers to have to stand out there

526
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:47,199
Speaker 1: knocking on the door, and especially if it's raining. But

527
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:49,600
Speaker 1: well even if they're in the apartment hallway, but if

528
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:51,399
Speaker 1: it's somebody he doesn't know what he's like, I'm not

529
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,440
Speaker 1: taking your clothes, dude. I've been living down the street

530
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:56,719
Speaker 1: for a month and I've never come here. I'm trying

531
00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:58,920
Speaker 1: to give you business. I don't know. You go away.

532
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:02,159
Speaker 1: I mean, on the other hand, like there are plenty

533
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 1: of business, especially one like this that he could have

534
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:09,160
Speaker 1: been on his capacity, He could have been literally washing

535
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:12,399
Speaker 1: as many clothes as he possibly could and said like, listen,

536
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,159
Speaker 1: I have my repeat customers. I'm making a fine living,

537
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 1: I you know. And also I'm terrified and paranoid and whatever.

538
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 1: So I am just only going to let people that

539
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,919
Speaker 1: I recognize in. And that's that, you know, that's certainly,

540
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 1: that's that's possibly or or it is possible that something

541
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:32,120
Speaker 1: happened within the past year to cause this change of behavior.

542
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 1: There was nobody, nobody, as far as I knew, reported

543
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 1: that he had been robbed or assaulted. He would have

544
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 1: to have reported that, but yeah, that's true to somebody. Yeah,

545
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 1: he didn't say anything anybody about that though, but you know,

546
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 1: who knows. Maybe somebody was out to get him. I

547
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 1: mean maybe like maybe, like said, maybe he did actually

548
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 1: find a Maltese falcon in a flea market or something

549
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 1: like that, and he had and he was really paranoid

550
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 1: about it. He could or maybe maybe he found the

551
00:28:56,120 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 1: gas operated iron that Devon just found on the internet

552
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 1: waved at it. Ye that actually exists. Yeah, it was

553
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 1: like the future is coming for me gas iron. I

554
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 1: mean he could have also this, It happens plenty, that

555
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 1: he could have had a mental health breakdown that you know,

556
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 1: he could have already been which is a little paranoid,

557
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 1: and that he just had some sort of breakdown that

558
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 1: was maybe triggered by something but also maybe triggered but nothing,

559
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 1: and that he just suddenly became a very paranoid human

560
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 1: being because his mental health had deteriorated. But a certain yeah,

561
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 1: that's which happens. Yeah, actually, uh, and so it could

562
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 1: have been that. It could have been that it really

563
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 1: was maybe he heard about some robberies and that's sort

564
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 1: of scared him. Or maybe there were neighborhood monsters that

565
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 1: were offering a protection and he wasn't paying them money

566
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 1: for protection, you know, and they don't like it when

567
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 1: you don't like their protection. Now they don't. Maybe he

568
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 1: had had his first running with an insurance salesman. Well,

569
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:54,800
Speaker 1: sure had a nice laundromat. You've got here to be

570
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 1: a shame of something happened to it. This burned down

571
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:03,960
Speaker 1: with that gas power all the way, yeah, with you

572
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 1: in it, yea, and no financial compensation. Why would I

573
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,719
Speaker 1: wanted if I'm dead, never mind just passed, You would,

574
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 1: wouldn't you? Yeah? Well, yeah, that's the way it worked

575
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 1: in those days and probably still doesn't many parts of

576
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 1: the world. Yeah, that's how Triple A has been around

577
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 1: this long. But the whole big trick with that thing,

578
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 1: right is that like okay, like, yes, it would be

579
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 1: cool to know who did it and why, Yeah, but

580
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 1: the how is bigger? Right? Yeah? How do Yeah? That's

581
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 1: actually the larger question that nobody really cares about, about,

582
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 1: which is unfortunate. Certainly, you know, nobody cares about like

583
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 1: who killed him, how the killer did it? Yeah, I know,

584
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:45,719
Speaker 1: That's just what I wanted out to. It's like, like

585
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 1: I said, total lockdoor mystery. Which was the thing we

586
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 1: talked about with the with the Wallace was they were like, well,

587
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 1: we're pretty sure that she did it, and we don't

588
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 1: really care about why or if she actually did. We

589
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 1: just care that she tells us how well. There was

590
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 1: the same thing with Joe said blows, because they were like, oh,

591
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 1: no he did It's fine. Side everyone was like, we

592
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 1: don't really care why, just how so help us understand

593
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 1: some of the scenario that they find Joe. So well,

594
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 1: that's what we got here. Um. We got the doors

595
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 1: and windows secured from the inside. The windows of course

596
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 1: with nails. The doors were bolted, which, as we mentioned,

597
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 1: could be a steel bar just to slide into position,

598
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 1: kind of kind of bolts with no key. It could

599
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 1: also be a dead bull with a key, yeah yeah,

600
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 1: dead bull or not even even not a key operated

601
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 1: one won't just a little handle on the inside, or

602
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 1: you could have had a regular old door lock. And

603
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 1: you guys have probably all seen these. I've got him

604
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 1: in my house. That kind of had to play with.

605
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 1: At the top there's a knob and then below that

606
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:51,720
Speaker 1: there's a keyhole that's shaped like a keyhole. Yeah. Yeah,

607
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 1: that's what it's called keyhole exactly. And you stick your

608
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 1: old fashioned key in there to locker unlock it, and

609
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 1: want to to lock it. You close the door night

610
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:01,960
Speaker 1: and you stick a key in their turn at three

611
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 1: sixty yeah, during a three sixty degrees, and then pull

612
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 1: it back out and the door is locked. He's throwing

613
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 1: the dead bolt, right. But a lot of people in

614
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 1: those days would leave the key in because the keyhole

615
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 1: goes all the way through people, so people can peek

616
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 1: through it. And some some plates would have a swing

617
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 1: plate that would cover the keyhole for privacy, but that

618
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 1: was an additional cost, so very few had that. And

619
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 1: another thing too, is that is that those old fashioned

620
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:33,480
Speaker 1: locks actually were not that incredibly hard to pick. So

621
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 1: that's another thing. There's a reason that a skeleton key

622
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 1: is called skeleton key, and it's that many of the

623
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 1: keys worked. Yeah, you can kind of buy a yeah,

624
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 1: and it probably kind of works for most I mean,

625
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 1: you know, they like three tumblers or something. It's super easy. Yeah,

626
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 1: they were easy to pick and so, so the idea

627
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 1: for those of you wondering, I'm sorry, just to interrupt

628
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 1: with those of you wondering, Joe has other locks on

629
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 1: his door. Now, yeah, you can't just break into his house,

630
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 1: you can't. Those are just internal but the not the

631
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 1: exterior ones. But yeah, So, so when you want to

632
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 1: lock up a night in this case, what you do

633
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 1: is you turn it three sixty degrees, but instead of

634
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 1: pulling it out, you turn about another ninety degrees. Yeah,

635
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 1: right there, and just leave the key and it locks

636
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 1: it in place. The the teeth are now barred. Somebody

637
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:21,640
Speaker 1: can't just push it out from the other side right there,

638
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:25,000
Speaker 1: lodged against the interior of the frame of the locking mechanism,

639
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 1: which stops him from just being pushed out. Yeah, and

640
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 1: so uh, and so it was very common, I think

641
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 1: probably more often than not people did this. They left

642
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 1: the key in the lock. Yeah, and so also helps

643
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 1: you know, you not forget your key when you leave. Yeah,

644
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 1: that's that's another good point. And it's very hard to

645
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 1: leave the house if the door is locked with yeah,

646
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 1: and you've had it in your hand as you walk out. Yeah,

647
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 1: And I think this is probably what happened because I

648
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 1: did in one account that I did read that the

649
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,120
Speaker 1: key that the door had been had been locked and

650
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 1: the key had been left in the lock on the inside.

651
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:00,120
Speaker 1: But again I'm not adercent. There's so many account thing

652
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 1: zone in the story, it's difficult to say, I know that,

653
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 1: Uh so we did. You did say that there were

654
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 1: extra bolts on the door. I believe there was at

655
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 1: least yeah. And whether that was the true like slide

656
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 1: or a bar drop in U shaped blocks for a

657
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 1: bolt like you see the old uh the castle door blocks. Yeah,

658
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 1: I know, they could could be a lot of things

659
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:31,799
Speaker 1: in the reporting. Yeah, and so I don't think it

660
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:34,360
Speaker 1: was anything quite that elaborate. It could have. That's a

661
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 1: very elaborate that's a really simple, pretty simple. Yeah, that's

662
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 1: a good point. It's simple. But there have been I mean,

663
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:44,920
Speaker 1: you can look up on YouTube. Even there are ways

664
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 1: to pick those skeleton key lots with the lock with

665
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 1: the keys in them, or to relock the door from

666
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:54,359
Speaker 1: the exterior. Harder to do with a slide bolt. So

667
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 1: that's why the dropping bars, right, And so that's why

668
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 1: I'm just bringing that up as that it was a

669
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:03,400
Speaker 1: slide bolt that probably had to be locked from the inside.

670
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:05,840
Speaker 1: It probably was. And the reason I would say that

671
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 1: because the police spent a lot of time thinking about this,

672
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 1: so they probably would have thought of just, you know,

673
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:13,879
Speaker 1: all the permutations about this. The police, like I said,

674
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 1: they were, they investigated this and then went over it

675
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:17,640
Speaker 1: very thoroughly, and the best they could come up with

676
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:20,920
Speaker 1: is that somebody the murderer was somebody very small, thin

677
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 1: and very agile shot who shot Fank and somehow crawled

678
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 1: out through the trans and window, you know. And their

679
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 1: support for that was that one of the one of

680
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:32,719
Speaker 1: the hinges on the trans and was broken, so maybe

681
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 1: somebody forced his way through that window. But it also

682
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 1: sounds like he didn't live in the most well maintained space. Yeah,

683
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:40,879
Speaker 1: and that's that's true too, or or it could be too.

684
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:43,759
Speaker 1: Let's not forget the policeman did boost a kid up

685
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 1: and shove them through the trans and window. But worth

686
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 1: mentioning that. And we don't know what the kid did,

687
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:52,759
Speaker 1: you know, as soon as they dropped in, but the

688
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:55,399
Speaker 1: gold coins he found on the ground and then well

689
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 1: or if there was like a chair or something, But

690
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:01,879
Speaker 1: you wouldn't need some kind of boosting macca is m Yeah,

691
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 1: would that would have probably still been sitting. Would it

692
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 1: would be, So it's convenient. There's a chair right here,

693
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:11,320
Speaker 1: I'll just jump onto that. Kids are dumb, you know,

694
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:15,279
Speaker 1: you dropped right onto the chair and then kid, they

695
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:17,880
Speaker 1: don't know what to look for or what to think about.

696
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 1: Recording in their memory. Yeah, I don't even know. If

697
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 1: this kid was twelve, twelve years old, would have been

698
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 1: too big to fit through this trans and window. There

699
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 1: was some suggestion that maybe the killer fired through the

700
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 1: trans and window itself. So he gets out of the

701
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 1: killer sneaks up on in Fink's department, bringing a chair

702
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:36,240
Speaker 1: with him or something like a ladder or a ladder

703
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:41,320
Speaker 1: or something or a crate down standing ladder killer and

704
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 1: that shoots down through the trans and and kills Fink.

705
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 1: There was a problem with that, and the corner said

706
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:48,239
Speaker 1: that the angle of the bullet wounds. It appeared that

707
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:50,920
Speaker 1: the killer was standing face to face and at the

708
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:55,320
Speaker 1: same level, and there burns and they're also on the

709
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 1: stand also, so that kind of shot the hell out

710
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 1: of that and pill pun intended. Yeah, the windows were attacked,

711
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:04,839
Speaker 1: so he hadn't been shot from outside through a window either,

712
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 1: And of course they're again that's the whole powder burn

713
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:08,879
Speaker 1: in the hand thing kind of rules that out too.

714
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 1: But but another question is is that you know somebody

715
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,719
Speaker 1: somehow shot him and got out of the room, leaving

716
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 1: it locked from the inside. But the other question I

717
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:20,919
Speaker 1: have is that why why do you do that? Yeah,

718
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 1: not why do you kill him? But like, why, yeah,

719
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 1: why you go to the trouble unless you're maybe like

720
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 1: some sort of true crime mystery aficionado. Yeah, it could

721
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 1: have been old enough. Yeah, no, I'm not old enough. Yeah,

722
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:43,239
Speaker 1: but yeah, I don't know. I mean, I The only

723
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 1: reason I can think of is that, other than being

724
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 1: a true crime aficionado, is that maybe the idea was

725
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,279
Speaker 1: to get the cops so puzzled over that that they'd

726
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:53,320
Speaker 1: be puzzling over that part of the mystery to forget

727
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 1: to go out and look for Apparently, I think they

728
00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:59,320
Speaker 1: did look for his killer. They at least talked to

729
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:02,200
Speaker 1: enough neighs in acquaintances and stuff to try to figure out,

730
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 1: you know, the usual way you saw murderers, like, well,

731
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:07,200
Speaker 1: who wanted to kill this guy? That's your murderer? Probably,

732
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 1: and they did that. They did their due diligence. I

733
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 1: guess another reason. Another reason I can think of is

734
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:14,359
Speaker 1: that like, well, you could always say to the jury,

735
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:16,239
Speaker 1: it's like, do I look like Hoodini? Do I look

736
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 1: like I gotta fit through that trans and window? Do

737
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 1: you you know? And maybe you know if you get

738
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:22,319
Speaker 1: caught from two pound dude, there's no way I could

739
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:24,360
Speaker 1: have done that. Yeah, so we've got there are some

740
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 1: theories out there. Believe we had kind of a lot

741
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 1: of theories, and actually, so we're gonna talk about that,

742
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 1: but first let's take a break. Hey, guys, For those

743
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 1: of you who know Joe well, and that's most of you,

744
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:41,719
Speaker 1: you know, there's only one thing that Joe hates more

745
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 1: than shopping, and that's shopping for cleaning products. I mean,

746
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:47,439
Speaker 1: let me tell you, Joe does not like spending time

747
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 1: in the store or waiting in line or figuring out

748
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 1: if he got the best deal. But he does care

749
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 1: about what's being used in his house because the cats,

750
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 1: which is why he joined Grove Collaborative. Grove sells only

751
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:01,719
Speaker 1: the best non toxic products and ships them right to

752
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,440
Speaker 1: his door when he wants them. He actually got his

753
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 1: first box from them last month and it could not

754
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 1: have been easier. Actually, I also got one, and I

755
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 1: thought I'd just pick up some natural cleaner to replace

756
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 1: my wind X and end up with these amazingly cool

757
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 1: wool dryer balls, and damn, my clothes smell really good

758
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:22,719
Speaker 1: and they're super static free. I mean, listen to me,

759
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 1: I'm talking about dryer balls when I should be talking

760
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:28,400
Speaker 1: about Joe's dryer balls. If you haven't already tried Grove,

761
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:30,879
Speaker 1: you really should. And all of our listeners who sign

762
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:33,719
Speaker 1: up get an amazing thirty dollar Mrs Myers gift set

763
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:36,120
Speaker 1: and a free thirty day v I P membership and

764
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:38,400
Speaker 1: a bonus gift just for you when you sign up

765
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:40,640
Speaker 1: and place an order of twenty dollars or more. Check

766
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:43,399
Speaker 1: out Grove and the thinking Sideways special offer at Grove

767
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:48,040
Speaker 1: dot co. That's not Calm dot co slash sideways. That's

768
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:55,719
Speaker 1: Grove dot CEO, not dot com slash sideways. And we're back,

769
00:39:56,200 --> 00:40:00,320
Speaker 1: all right. So our first theory this is actually I

770
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:02,839
Speaker 1: found this at least one place on the webs, which

771
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:04,920
Speaker 1: is that this was not actually a big mystery at all.

772
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 1: It was just basically a common urban legend slash built

773
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:12,719
Speaker 1: from miss reporting by the media or police in competence.

774
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 1: The sloppy story turned into a legend. Yeah, and so

775
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:18,120
Speaker 1: there was one comment I saw, I think it was

776
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:20,600
Speaker 1: on Reddit that said that the killer probably just had

777
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 1: a copy of the key, so he just killed him

778
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 1: and locked the door from the outside when he left,

779
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 1: which would be pretty easy. He was not actually in

780
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:32,440
Speaker 1: the door. That yeah, yeah, I can't disagree with that. Yeah,

781
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:34,840
Speaker 1: and so that makes sense, except that kind of assumes

782
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:38,839
Speaker 1: that the police were morons, I mean, right, so yeah, well,

783
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:42,399
Speaker 1: I mean a little bit. But again, we we are

784
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:48,759
Speaker 1: admitting one thing here. No, we're admitting one thing here,

785
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:51,319
Speaker 1: and that is that a small child was sent through

786
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,279
Speaker 1: into the crime scene before anyone else, right, so they

787
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:57,839
Speaker 1: had to take on faith that small child said yeah, yeah,

788
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 1: the door was bolted, and he was law. I mean,

789
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 1: you could see the key was in the lock or

790
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:05,320
Speaker 1: it wasn't and whatever, but you know, maybe it was

791
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:08,280
Speaker 1: locked and you could actually see through to the crime scene.

792
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 1: But they assumed there was these extra bolts that were

793
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 1: bolted and the kids said, yeah, I was bolted, of course.

794
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:16,200
Speaker 1: Well yeah, but in those days, I don't think the kid.

795
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:17,840
Speaker 1: I think the kid was just turned the key and

796
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 1: unlocked it and left the key in there. I don't

797
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:21,360
Speaker 1: I don't see why he would have removed it and

798
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:24,279
Speaker 1: then lie about there being a key in there. No,

799
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:28,480
Speaker 1: I totally agree with that. Well, it's it's curiosity killed

800
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 1: the cat. It literally the kid could have got in

801
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:36,400
Speaker 1: and stood there and pulled the key out and looked

802
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:39,960
Speaker 1: around for a minute, and then so many things under, hey, kid,

803
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:43,360
Speaker 1: what's going on? Open up the door, and then when oh, oops,

804
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 1: kind of opens it up and sorry. And if the

805
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 1: key is the whole thing, I mean, I'm just saying

806
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:52,480
Speaker 1: the key is literally the key to the story. It

807
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:54,080
Speaker 1: had to be there for the key for the kid

808
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:57,719
Speaker 1: to turn it and unlock it, yes, yeah, or things

809
00:41:57,760 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 1: had to be bolted on the other side or whatever.

810
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:01,920
Speaker 1: But if there was a little bit of misreporting on

811
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:04,720
Speaker 1: his end where he was like, you know, they opened

812
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 1: the door and saw the bolts and said, oh, these

813
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:08,719
Speaker 1: must have all been bolted, but they weren't and it

814
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:10,919
Speaker 1: was just a key. And there are some other eyes

815
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:12,440
Speaker 1: we're going to discuss in a minute. There are some

816
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:15,120
Speaker 1: other ways that you could have locked the door with

817
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:19,120
Speaker 1: the key from the outside side. I mean, I just

818
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 1: think I agree grilled the kid pretty pretty well. I'm

819
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:25,120
Speaker 1: really just playing down here, but I will just say,

820
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:28,839
Speaker 1: you know, it's long enough ago that there's there could

821
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:32,839
Speaker 1: be some room for something. Yeah, but I'm pretty sure

822
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 1: they went over it pretty carefully. He would hope they did,

823
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 1: because they spent some time on this one. Actually the

824
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 1: police did, so. I I think it's it's probably a

825
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:45,040
Speaker 1: safe assumption that there was that there really truly was

826
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 1: some sort of a thrown a bolt that was thrown

827
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:49,840
Speaker 1: from the inside, or you know, a key in the

828
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 1: lock on the other side, or something that made them

829
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:54,719
Speaker 1: believe that, although, like you said, the kid could have

830
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 1: somehow said something misreported it, but you would think that

831
00:42:58,239 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 1: they would have sat him down and really straight in

832
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 1: that you've gotten that story straightened out. And you would think,

833
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:04,960
Speaker 1: but again, we don't know how old the kid was,

834
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:09,239
Speaker 1: you know, and the younger the kid. Oftentimes there's just

835
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:12,399
Speaker 1: some kind of if a police officer says to them

836
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:14,640
Speaker 1: and all the bolts were locked, right, and the kid

837
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:17,480
Speaker 1: would say yes, sir, and that that is also the

838
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:21,640
Speaker 1: problem is that this was an era where crime scene,

839
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:25,800
Speaker 1: as we've talked about before, crime scenes weren't protected. Police

840
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:29,279
Speaker 1: said whatever they wanted to to the news agencies to

841
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 1: get a buck, and so they could have just started

842
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 1: saying it was so weird it was completely locked, when

843
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 1: in fact it wasn't. And there's this and we're going

844
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 1: to talk about this a zillion times in this story,

845
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:47,239
Speaker 1: but there is a million scenarios where there's gradations of

846
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:50,760
Speaker 1: the truth that could have sent it off in another direction.

847
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:54,600
Speaker 1: I'm just saying all of this to just again be

848
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 1: the devil out gat I agree, but I think it's

849
00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:59,360
Speaker 1: likely all of this was true. But I think it

850
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:02,920
Speaker 1: is because, you know, for one thing, I mean, there

851
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:04,720
Speaker 1: were there are lots of murders in New York City,

852
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:07,359
Speaker 1: and so why why did they picked this particular one

853
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:09,200
Speaker 1: to say, oh, it's all locks from the inside, you know,

854
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:11,880
Speaker 1: when you know, they could have like they could have

855
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 1: lock mysteries all over New York. There's probably all kinds

856
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 1: of dead bodies founded apartments that are locked, you know.

857
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:19,640
Speaker 1: So but it could have been a situation where, I mean,

858
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:24,759
Speaker 1: we've seen this today where it is a what is

859
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:28,600
Speaker 1: the turn? It's a firework case, is it? Or think

860
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:33,640
Speaker 1: he is an immigrant and suddenly there's an immigrant push

861
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:36,400
Speaker 1: for like people who are like, we're immigrants, we are

862
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 1: not getting the protection we need in the service we deserve.

863
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 1: We see this today and what the hell? And suddenly

864
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:49,600
Speaker 1: he is just he's it's that that that gunpowder story. Yeah,

865
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:52,160
Speaker 1: the powder thank you, it's the powder cake story. And

866
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 1: so he gets launched and then drops immediately after that.

867
00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:59,440
Speaker 1: But all we're left with is those those hot details.

868
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:04,080
Speaker 1: And so you're saying that, I'm trying to figure out

869
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:06,680
Speaker 1: your reasoning here. So he was a Polish immigrant, the

870
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 1: Polish American community got up in arms, and then so

871
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 1: the police because the Irish American cops didn't give a

872
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:17,320
Speaker 1: rip and so that you know, inflammatory gets in the papers,

873
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:22,880
Speaker 1: but only certain details get saved, or the cops were

874
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:25,480
Speaker 1: trying to cover their butts, you know, maybe didn't do

875
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:29,360
Speaker 1: as good a job. Again, this is total speculation. I

876
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:34,239
Speaker 1: think you guys are thinking, thinking the current modern unfortunate

877
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 1: media lens. Well, no, yeah, I think I agree, But

878
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:40,279
Speaker 1: again I'm going to just reiterate again. I'm just kind

879
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 1: of I'm just saying it to to voice it. But unlikely. Yeah,

880
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:48,719
Speaker 1: I don't think that's what happened, but but it is

881
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:52,919
Speaker 1: possible that it is vaguely possible that cops could have said,

882
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 1: you know, after the fact, well, here's all the reasons

883
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:58,080
Speaker 1: that we couldn't really figure out what was going on.

884
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:00,920
Speaker 1: It's just a locked door mystery. It's not a murder mystery.

885
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:06,440
Speaker 1: And yeah, well, I mean, but again unlikely. It is

886
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:08,920
Speaker 1: highly unlackily because a lot of murders didn't get solved

887
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:13,160
Speaker 1: in those days or these days. So that's why we

888
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:17,360
Speaker 1: have a show. Yeah, and the police actually, uh, considering

889
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 1: the amount of trouble they went to in this particular case,

890
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:23,400
Speaker 1: it would be awfully dominant. Just say, hey, did anybody

891
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:25,719
Speaker 1: ever ask that kid if maybe, you know, maybe it

892
00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 1: wasn't really locked on the inside, you know, and after

893
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 1: they torn the place apart, you know. But so that's

894
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 1: one reason I think it probably. But also we've got

895
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:36,960
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of other theories though, well, no, I

896
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:39,080
Speaker 1: wanted to say one of the thing about that the

897
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:41,040
Speaker 1: New York Police commissioner at the time, his name was

898
00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:45,160
Speaker 1: Edward mulrooney, who gave an interview on the radio This

899
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:49,560
Speaker 1: is Pretty TV. So he did a radio whenever about

900
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:51,799
Speaker 1: two years after the murder and said that the think

901
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:54,160
Speaker 1: he talked about three cases and that this was one

902
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:56,560
Speaker 1: of them. He said that he considered it insoluble and

903
00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:58,960
Speaker 1: one of the greatest mysteries of his police career. Of

904
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:02,960
Speaker 1: the NYPD and since there's probably a lot of unsolved murders,

905
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 1: I'm thinking that that happened in New York when he

906
00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 1: was during his tenure. I'm thinking the part about it

907
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:11,799
Speaker 1: that was insoluble was the locker room aspect of the case.

908
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:15,240
Speaker 1: And I'm thinking he probably had aspects access to the files,

909
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:18,399
Speaker 1: the actual files, and not whatever was reported in the press,

910
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:22,319
Speaker 1: because that always gets distorted, the mistakes are always made.

911
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:24,800
Speaker 1: So that's another reason I think this is really truly

912
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:28,520
Speaker 1: an Austin God lockdoor mystery. I totally agree, not just

913
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:31,000
Speaker 1: a screw no, so you know, we do that thing

914
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:35,080
Speaker 1: sometimes I feel like we have to argue the counterpoint,

915
00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:38,239
Speaker 1: but totally yeah, I think it happened. Yeah, and so

916
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:42,279
Speaker 1: so we got a mystery. Okay, our next sery, our

917
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:45,759
Speaker 1: next serious suicide. He actually did commit suicide. But of

918
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:49,160
Speaker 1: course there's a problem with that. No gun, but well,

919
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:51,480
Speaker 1: the kid was alone in the room for a few moments.

920
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:53,560
Speaker 1: Maybe the gun was just laying there on the floor,

921
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:56,960
Speaker 1: and the guns and the kid grabs the gun and

922
00:47:57,040 --> 00:48:00,520
Speaker 1: sticks in his pocket, you know, and so that's possible.

923
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:02,640
Speaker 1: Of course, you think the police would have grilled him

924
00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:04,880
Speaker 1: pretty hard and actually wrung the truth out of him,

925
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:08,280
Speaker 1: because unless he squirmed away in the press of people

926
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 1: that were right there outside the door and just vanished

927
00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:13,440
Speaker 1: and they never saw the kid again, it's possible that

928
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:16,520
Speaker 1: happens candidate to one of his newsy friends. I don't

929
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:17,600
Speaker 1: think he would have handed it to one of his

930
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 1: newsy friends. I think it would have just you know,

931
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:20,600
Speaker 1: sold us to one of the gang members of the

932
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:25,359
Speaker 1: local game. But but it's possible. I'm pretty sure they

933
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 1: probably tracked the kid down and grilled him pretty good

934
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 1: about you know, stuff like the lock and everything else,

935
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:31,520
Speaker 1: you know, and did you take the gun? Because they

936
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:34,359
Speaker 1: must have occurred to somebody that perhaps the kid did

937
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:37,120
Speaker 1: take the gun. I feel like there are bigger problems

938
00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:39,399
Speaker 1: than just the missing gun. You mean, like the fact

939
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:43,680
Speaker 1: that he ended his life while Ironingcause everybody loves ironing

940
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:48,000
Speaker 1: exactly so is iron is on? Yeah? Is that? Is

941
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:49,800
Speaker 1: that how you want to end your life ironing? I

942
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:53,120
Speaker 1: mean it's not. But I also I've actually kind of

943
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:58,439
Speaker 1: wanted to end my life because I like ironing. Yeah

944
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:03,000
Speaker 1: I do, I really did. I think really sad listen next, No,

945
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:04,520
Speaker 1: I mean it's you know, it's kind of like picking

946
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:06,640
Speaker 1: like a scab or something. It's there's just something super

947
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:08,960
Speaker 1: satisfying about like seeing all those wrinkles and just like

948
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:16,160
Speaker 1: and they're all gone. But I'm also hearing good. I'm

949
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:18,360
Speaker 1: also just good at ironing, so it doesn't really that.

950
00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:21,600
Speaker 1: But we've talked about this before a lot of times

951
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:25,840
Speaker 1: with the theory of suicide, and that suicide is oftentimes

952
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:30,040
Speaker 1: not a rational thing, right. The bigger problem that I

953
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:32,960
Speaker 1: have is not the like iron being on or anything

954
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:36,239
Speaker 1: like that. It's the hole in the hand, well in hand,

955
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:40,480
Speaker 1: and the shots. That's the bigger problem I have with it.

956
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:43,839
Speaker 1: Suicide sometimes do shoot themselves more than once. I mean,

957
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:48,640
Speaker 1: it has happened times, but oftentimes not like in the hand.

958
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:51,920
Speaker 1: And then again, as we talked about a little bit earlier,

959
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:55,359
Speaker 1: I feel like, again with no statistics to back this up,

960
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:57,680
Speaker 1: I just feel like people more often shoot themselves in

961
00:49:57,680 --> 00:50:01,720
Speaker 1: the head much. Yeah, but you it's it's a definitive shot.

962
00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:06,360
Speaker 1: You're much more likely to expire from a head wound

963
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:10,440
Speaker 1: then you are, some kind of general check, much more

964
00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:13,200
Speaker 1: likely to expire instantly rather than you know, taking a

965
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:17,400
Speaker 1: long ticktome a while to bleed out. And and remember

966
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:20,680
Speaker 1: that this is so the kind of gun that he

967
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:24,399
Speaker 1: would have likely used would not have been some kind

968
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:28,320
Speaker 1: of semi automatic, but something that had a very exposed trigger.

969
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:30,319
Speaker 1: And like we talked about, if he has to use

970
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:33,880
Speaker 1: his thumb right, So if you had to use his

971
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:37,680
Speaker 1: thumb to pull the trigger, your hand, the web of

972
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:41,680
Speaker 1: your hand, if not your your pointer finger will get

973
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:45,840
Speaker 1: up underneath the hammer and get caught. And so there's

974
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 1: usually obvious signs of damage to your hand from using

975
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:54,000
Speaker 1: it backwards. It it tends to catch and tear flesh.

976
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 1: So he should have shown if the emmy had the

977
00:50:57,360 --> 00:50:59,960
Speaker 1: examiner at the time had been looking for that, would

978
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:02,719
Speaker 1: is it? That's weird. There's some square notches out of

979
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:05,600
Speaker 1: his pointer finger. Odd. He must have done that with

980
00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:09,440
Speaker 1: an iron Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's that's possible to Yeah, definitely,

981
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:11,480
Speaker 1: it's an awkward position to shoot a gun in. I mean,

982
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:13,800
Speaker 1: it's definitely the gun's gonna Of course, it could have

983
00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:16,080
Speaker 1: been some whimpy little thirty two that didn't recoil very

984
00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:18,080
Speaker 1: much too. I don't know. Well, mostly it's just that

985
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:22,200
Speaker 1: that that trigger, that hammer action flailing in my hand

986
00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:25,000
Speaker 1: at my head. It's the hammer action that is usually

987
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:29,560
Speaker 1: what catches the webbing of your hand or your people's

988
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:32,160
Speaker 1: four fingers when especially when they're using a gun backwards

989
00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:35,319
Speaker 1: because they're they're holding it at a weird angle because

990
00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:38,040
Speaker 1: of course there's a slope to the handle. I never

991
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:40,000
Speaker 1: shot a gun backwards, you know. They taught me that

992
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:42,120
Speaker 1: in my n R A safety class. If you ever

993
00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:45,279
Speaker 1: held one backwards, though, you can see very easily how

994
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:47,880
Speaker 1: it would happen. Well, but and here's another question, is

995
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:51,800
Speaker 1: they made no pretty specific note of the gunpowder burns

996
00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:54,759
Speaker 1: on his hands but not on his chest. And you

997
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:57,839
Speaker 1: would assume that if he had point blank he would

998
00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:05,799
Speaker 1: that they would, And they have also mentioned likely Yeah, yeah,

999
00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:09,840
Speaker 1: well he may have done one through the hand. The

1000
00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 1: odds of him shooting himself twice through the same spot

1001
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:16,239
Speaker 1: in the hand, yeah astronomical. Why would you do that?

1002
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:21,640
Speaker 1: You know, it's like, okay, that didn't work and act

1003
00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:25,680
Speaker 1: and match it perfectly with the whole Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah,

1004
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:29,560
Speaker 1: I don't think so. There's too many variables, yeah, now

1005
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:33,560
Speaker 1: there are. No. I don't think that suicide is a

1006
00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:37,600
Speaker 1: good one. Another series This is another Another popular one

1007
00:52:37,719 --> 00:52:39,120
Speaker 1: is that he was shot in the hallway and ran

1008
00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:42,560
Speaker 1: his side through the bowls. I personally have always believed

1009
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:46,920
Speaker 1: this was the answer to the story. This theory. This

1010
00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:51,560
Speaker 1: is like because it's unsatisfying, but it's logical, it does

1011
00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:54,640
Speaker 1: make some sense. But it was the same thing with

1012
00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:57,480
Speaker 1: de la Plaza. I mean, you know, even though the

1013
00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:01,279
Speaker 1: police concluded that he must have committed suicide, there was

1014
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:04,239
Speaker 1: blood on the steps outside his apartment, so he was

1015
00:53:04,280 --> 00:53:07,640
Speaker 1: obviously stabbed outside and then ran inside locked the door.

1016
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:11,160
Speaker 1: But was there blood outside of this apartment in this case, No,

1017
00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:14,480
Speaker 1: there was no blood shot three times or at least twice.

1018
00:53:14,719 --> 00:53:17,239
Speaker 1: But this is my my problem with this portion of

1019
00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:19,680
Speaker 1: the story, and a lot of this story, is that

1020
00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:24,480
Speaker 1: I don't know if the details were recorded that was

1021
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:28,520
Speaker 1: there a blood trail outside because some of the reporting says, well,

1022
00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:31,279
Speaker 1: if he was wearing heavy clothing, which we don't know

1023
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:33,520
Speaker 1: what he was wearing, So let's just say he's got

1024
00:53:33,640 --> 00:53:37,520
Speaker 1: four wool shirts on at a big trench coat, that

1025
00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:40,160
Speaker 1: would soak up the blood while he was falling back

1026
00:53:40,280 --> 00:53:44,160
Speaker 1: into his apartment. But we don't know that for sure,

1027
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:48,080
Speaker 1: and so it's it's hard to say. I personally feel

1028
00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:50,800
Speaker 1: like it just it makes the most sense that a

1029
00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:54,320
Speaker 1: guy it's it's the panic room scenario we've seen this

1030
00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:58,440
Speaker 1: a lot of movies where oh God, shut the latch

1031
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:02,359
Speaker 1: and then realized that you've been shot and then fall

1032
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:04,960
Speaker 1: down dead, but nobody can get you because you're already dead.

1033
00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:09,520
Speaker 1: So which of his hands was shot? Left one? Okay, well,

1034
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:13,480
Speaker 1: that I guess is less helpful. But but the one

1035
00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:16,239
Speaker 1: thing I will say is that chest wounds aside, he

1036
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:20,319
Speaker 1: had a hole in his hand that was shot and bleeding. Right,

1037
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:22,840
Speaker 1: So if he's making his way back into his apartment,

1038
00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:25,160
Speaker 1: he's closing and locking the door, there's going to be

1039
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:29,239
Speaker 1: blood on the door. In some capac it's his left

1040
00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:31,640
Speaker 1: hand and he is right handed. That is not the case.

1041
00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:35,960
Speaker 1: You've never in your life only walked in with your

1042
00:54:36,040 --> 00:54:40,160
Speaker 1: right hand, closed the door and locked everything. Yeah, I

1043
00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:42,560
Speaker 1: do it all the time. I pushed the door closed

1044
00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 1: and then everything and I throw the bolts. I feel

1045
00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:48,960
Speaker 1: like there would be some sort of blood. I'm a

1046
00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:53,080
Speaker 1: lazy jerk, and I shut the door with my shoulder

1047
00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:55,799
Speaker 1: a lot, or I push it with my foot when

1048
00:54:55,840 --> 00:54:58,200
Speaker 1: I go in so that I can reach up and

1049
00:54:58,360 --> 00:55:03,360
Speaker 1: use my my free hand to rabbit. So can't see this,

1050
00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:05,560
Speaker 1: but I've got my hand on my chest, and it's

1051
00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:07,960
Speaker 1: my left hand, which is now my bleeding hand, which

1052
00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:12,520
Speaker 1: now bleeding into my uh, spongy clothing, which is absorbing

1053
00:55:12,560 --> 00:55:15,279
Speaker 1: all of the blood for me very conveniently. I feel

1054
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:17,040
Speaker 1: like at the end of the day, there's some blood

1055
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:22,480
Speaker 1: something even. And also I'm not going to disagree with that.

1056
00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:24,480
Speaker 1: I have a hard time believing that you got shot

1057
00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:26,759
Speaker 1: in one hand and didn't reach over with his other

1058
00:55:26,840 --> 00:55:29,440
Speaker 1: hand and grab the hand and then get blood on it.

1059
00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:31,319
Speaker 1: You could have armed pitted it like I'm doing here,

1060
00:55:31,360 --> 00:55:34,359
Speaker 1: where he sticks in his armpit and squeezes, so now

1061
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:37,640
Speaker 1: his right hand is still free to operate. But then

1062
00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:40,560
Speaker 1: here's the follow up question to that, is, is your

1063
00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:42,759
Speaker 1: theory that he was doing some ironing in the house,

1064
00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:45,320
Speaker 1: went out into the hallway, got shot, came back in,

1065
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:49,400
Speaker 1: or how otherwise You' not I'm not answering why he

1066
00:55:49,719 --> 00:55:53,800
Speaker 1: left his apartment because I cannot answer that. The only

1067
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:57,720
Speaker 1: thing that I'm trying to answer, just like everybody else,

1068
00:55:58,360 --> 00:56:02,600
Speaker 1: is how did he get into his apartment and to

1069
00:56:02,719 --> 00:56:05,520
Speaker 1: be shot fatally three, you know, once in the hand

1070
00:56:05,560 --> 00:56:08,279
Speaker 1: and twice in the chest, And we can't figure it out.

1071
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:10,480
Speaker 1: And so my only thing is that I've always thought, well,

1072
00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:13,360
Speaker 1: he did the armpit action you know, one hand up

1073
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:16,879
Speaker 1: under the armpit, squeezed, ran in, slammed the door, locked

1074
00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:19,520
Speaker 1: the bolts, fell down, and died. Yeah, but that's all

1075
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:21,600
Speaker 1: I got. Yeah, I know that's it. But but of course,

1076
00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:25,680
Speaker 1: but as far as the minutes, okay, as far as

1077
00:56:26,239 --> 00:56:30,080
Speaker 1: as far as you weren't supposed to say good oh sorry,

1078
00:56:30,160 --> 00:56:31,839
Speaker 1: now I didn't mean that at all. No, I mean,

1079
00:56:33,080 --> 00:56:34,920
Speaker 1: but as far as the multi layers, I don't think

1080
00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:37,560
Speaker 1: he was wearing multiple layers because he was inside ironing,

1081
00:56:37,640 --> 00:56:39,839
Speaker 1: so you're not gonna you know, So I don't think

1082
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:43,640
Speaker 1: that conceivable that he got functioned by some amasily a

1083
00:56:43,640 --> 00:56:46,000
Speaker 1: little thirty two bullets and there was not a lot

1084
00:56:46,080 --> 00:56:48,839
Speaker 1: of blood. It seems unlikely, especially with the hand one,

1085
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:52,799
Speaker 1: especially the handman. Also, I feel like, emmy pronouncements are

1086
00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:56,400
Speaker 1: pretty I mean, they're not full proof certainly, but generally

1087
00:56:56,520 --> 00:56:58,640
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm willing to trust the fact if

1088
00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:00,640
Speaker 1: they say, like that would have been it all immediately

1089
00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:05,600
Speaker 1: like that that is probably was. But even more than that,

1090
00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:10,440
Speaker 1: if your theory is like, arn't armpit hand you know, um,

1091
00:57:11,360 --> 00:57:14,520
Speaker 1: there was a it was a pretty good description of

1092
00:57:14,680 --> 00:57:17,480
Speaker 1: the crime scene. You would think they would have said,

1093
00:57:17,480 --> 00:57:19,560
Speaker 1: also there was all this blood all over his other hand,

1094
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:22,680
Speaker 1: his arm, his armpit, whatever. But but the other Okay,

1095
00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:25,520
Speaker 1: But my counter that that is in some of the

1096
00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:29,120
Speaker 1: information that Joe shared with us ahead of the script

1097
00:57:29,720 --> 00:57:33,200
Speaker 1: was the fact that there were emmy accounts where people

1098
00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:37,920
Speaker 1: have said that person should have died instantly and instead

1099
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:40,960
Speaker 1: they wandered around for half an hour to an hour

1100
00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:45,960
Speaker 1: a lie before keeling over dead. That is typically head wounds.

1101
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:47,680
Speaker 1: So I mean, if you get shot through the heart

1102
00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:49,760
Speaker 1: and you're not going to wander around, But he wasn't.

1103
00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:52,200
Speaker 1: He wasn't shot through the hardest near as I can tell.

1104
00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:55,320
Speaker 1: He was shot in the chest near the heart, and

1105
00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:59,520
Speaker 1: they said that should have killed him instantly near the

1106
00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:03,920
Speaker 1: heart and the harder prey. Yeah, as long as a

1107
00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:07,920
Speaker 1: lot of material between your exterior and your interioring your

1108
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:10,600
Speaker 1: rib cage, in your heart, and things can go very

1109
00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:16,480
Speaker 1: very close and cause bleeds that are slower bleeds. I'm

1110
00:58:16,480 --> 00:58:18,440
Speaker 1: not gonna say they're slow, but they're slow. I thought

1111
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:20,080
Speaker 1: you were going to be quiet for the next twenty minute.

1112
00:58:20,240 --> 00:58:23,400
Speaker 1: You're right, I'll be quite till the next THEERI. How's that? Yeah,

1113
00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:26,320
Speaker 1: I'm only two minutes from now. Yeah, I'm only assuming

1114
00:58:26,360 --> 00:58:28,560
Speaker 1: that he got shot through the hard or too. You know,

1115
00:58:28,720 --> 00:58:31,240
Speaker 1: maybe you know one of the arteries going into the

1116
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:34,000
Speaker 1: harder out of the heart, I should say, or something

1117
00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:37,040
Speaker 1: like that. Well, because I mean, there's no other organ

1118
00:58:37,160 --> 00:58:39,960
Speaker 1: in your body that's going to cause you to instantly die.

1119
00:58:40,880 --> 00:58:43,160
Speaker 1: You get shot to it either long you get shot

1120
00:58:43,240 --> 00:58:44,840
Speaker 1: through your long, you'll still live for a little while.

1121
00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:47,000
Speaker 1: You can have a totally collapse long and be fine,

1122
00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:49,560
Speaker 1: I mean not fine for a long time. I have

1123
00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:53,760
Speaker 1: a friend who joined the military with a lung that

1124
00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:56,760
Speaker 1: collapsed spontaneously, and they were like, yeah, you're fit for duty.

1125
00:58:57,960 --> 00:59:01,360
Speaker 1: Well that's that says something different doctors. But he, I

1126
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:06,400
Speaker 1: mean he was able to function with just sometimes yeah,

1127
00:59:06,520 --> 00:59:09,160
Speaker 1: and so he must says the must have found some

1128
00:59:09,360 --> 00:59:11,640
Speaker 1: damage to the heart that would have been instantly fable

1129
00:59:11,680 --> 00:59:14,080
Speaker 1: for him to say something like that, But I guess

1130
00:59:14,120 --> 00:59:17,560
Speaker 1: like more than that, Yeah, I just don't. There's not

1131
00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:22,240
Speaker 1: enough evidence exterior too. I mean, there's no real evidence

1132
00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:25,440
Speaker 1: interior to the apartment to say what happened. But I

1133
00:59:25,600 --> 00:59:29,320
Speaker 1: just feel like there's very little exterior evidence as well too.

1134
00:59:29,840 --> 00:59:31,560
Speaker 1: It seems like there should have been some blood at

1135
00:59:31,680 --> 00:59:35,080
Speaker 1: least from the hand wound. The found myself. On the hand,

1136
00:59:35,120 --> 00:59:37,760
Speaker 1: I bleed pretty profusely from a small cut. Hands bleed

1137
00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:40,320
Speaker 1: a lot. There really is a lot of age. You're

1138
00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:43,280
Speaker 1: flailing it around and screaming about it. Well, but even

1139
00:59:43,400 --> 00:59:46,000
Speaker 1: like a paper cut that I mean, they don't believe

1140
00:59:46,160 --> 00:59:50,080
Speaker 1: like they're not throwing blood everywhere, but they are. They

1141
00:59:50,200 --> 00:59:52,240
Speaker 1: just like sit there and they believe forever. And it's

1142
00:59:52,240 --> 00:59:54,440
Speaker 1: You're like, that's like three layers of skin, how are

1143
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:56,320
Speaker 1: you doing that? But it does. It just bleeds and

1144
00:59:56,400 --> 00:59:59,840
Speaker 1: bleeding bleeds, and because again you know, there's a lot

1145
01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:03,040
Speaker 1: veins and stuff that you need in there. So it

1146
01:00:03,200 --> 01:00:05,439
Speaker 1: just seems like there would have been more evidence. But again,

1147
01:00:05,640 --> 01:00:07,520
Speaker 1: that should have been a blood fail. If he ran inside,

1148
01:00:07,520 --> 01:00:09,680
Speaker 1: there should have been a blood fail from the door

1149
01:00:09,880 --> 01:00:11,920
Speaker 1: to wherever they found his body, because I don't think

1150
01:00:11,960 --> 01:00:13,840
Speaker 1: they found him right next to the door. That's the

1151
01:00:13,880 --> 01:00:16,000
Speaker 1: bigger part for me, because I am willing to say

1152
01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:18,200
Speaker 1: if somebody shot them in the shot him in the hall,

1153
01:00:18,680 --> 01:00:21,720
Speaker 1: he ran inside, locked himself in, you go better clean

1154
01:00:21,800 --> 01:00:26,080
Speaker 1: this blood up quick, right, Okay, But there's just a

1155
01:00:26,200 --> 01:00:29,520
Speaker 1: lot can we think, can we answer? Can we try

1156
01:00:29,640 --> 01:00:32,920
Speaker 1: and settle on a description of something here that before

1157
01:00:32,960 --> 01:00:34,440
Speaker 1: we go into the next theory or any of that

1158
01:00:34,600 --> 01:00:39,440
Speaker 1: the following theories, which is the lady that heard the

1159
01:00:39,560 --> 01:00:43,360
Speaker 1: scuffle and ran outside and got a cop. Do we

1160
01:00:43,640 --> 01:00:47,040
Speaker 1: think that was five minutes? Do we think she went

1161
01:00:47,120 --> 01:00:49,320
Speaker 1: and got a drink at the local pub and came

1162
01:00:49,360 --> 01:00:52,520
Speaker 1: back and got a constable, and so it's thirty minutes.

1163
01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:56,240
Speaker 1: Do we have any sense of we don't know how

1164
01:00:56,320 --> 01:00:58,520
Speaker 1: long it took. I mean, I'm som assembly it was

1165
01:00:58,680 --> 01:01:02,360
Speaker 1: not long, and I think it was a ran outside

1166
01:01:02,440 --> 01:01:06,880
Speaker 1: and I need a yeah in a corner like that's

1167
01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:10,920
Speaker 1: my thought too. But this is again a variable that

1168
01:01:11,640 --> 01:01:15,720
Speaker 1: I feel changes the story dramatically. I never have a

1169
01:01:15,920 --> 01:01:21,520
Speaker 1: clear confident answer. It's possible she shot him in the hallway,

1170
01:01:21,680 --> 01:01:25,880
Speaker 1: cleaned up, and then went out for the had a cigarette.

1171
01:01:25,920 --> 01:01:28,880
Speaker 1: She was cool as a cute camera when somebody killed

1172
01:01:28,960 --> 01:01:32,040
Speaker 1: that man. The only thing that's tricky for me again

1173
01:01:32,160 --> 01:01:35,360
Speaker 1: is the like iron thing is even if it was again,

1174
01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:39,000
Speaker 1: we've like I've done some googling, and there's this gas

1175
01:01:39,080 --> 01:01:42,200
Speaker 1: powered situation that could have still been hot, but even not,

1176
01:01:43,280 --> 01:01:46,680
Speaker 1: it is my impression that it was still hot or

1177
01:01:46,680 --> 01:01:49,720
Speaker 1: at least warm. They came turn it on to do

1178
01:01:49,840 --> 01:01:52,880
Speaker 1: some ironing, right, But even if it was this kind

1179
01:01:52,920 --> 01:01:56,960
Speaker 1: of sits on a fire, gets hot pressing old tiny iron,

1180
01:01:57,520 --> 01:02:00,440
Speaker 1: my impression was that it was still warm. Yeah, and

1181
01:02:00,560 --> 01:02:04,400
Speaker 1: they don't do and but they also those things don't

1182
01:02:04,440 --> 01:02:09,080
Speaker 1: retain heat. Well, you know, fifteen minutes Okay, okay, you know,

1183
01:02:09,120 --> 01:02:13,919
Speaker 1: it's like for going for I guess we're we're kind

1184
01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:16,960
Speaker 1: of all in agreement that there is a fifteen minute

1185
01:02:17,040 --> 01:02:22,960
Speaker 1: lag between the incident and they and actually finding the

1186
01:02:23,080 --> 01:02:26,320
Speaker 1: kid and getting the kids. And I feel like we

1187
01:02:26,400 --> 01:02:29,120
Speaker 1: need to establish that because otherwise I'm going to keep

1188
01:02:29,160 --> 01:02:34,280
Speaker 1: saying I think fifteen minutes is like the most time

1189
01:02:34,320 --> 01:02:37,320
Speaker 1: that elapsed in my mind. So, yeah, it was. It

1190
01:02:37,480 --> 01:02:39,000
Speaker 1: was fairly recent. There were a lot of a lot

1191
01:02:39,040 --> 01:02:41,320
Speaker 1: of beat cops walking around in those days, you know,

1192
01:02:41,480 --> 01:02:42,880
Speaker 1: and so he was you know, he might have just

1193
01:02:42,960 --> 01:02:45,960
Speaker 1: been walking right past the front door. I don't know. Uh,

1194
01:02:47,040 --> 01:02:49,280
Speaker 1: a very unearth theory. We're still on that he was

1195
01:02:49,320 --> 01:02:52,960
Speaker 1: shot in the hallway and ran inside. There was a scuffle,

1196
01:02:53,080 --> 01:02:55,840
Speaker 1: he gets shot in the hand, then he runs inside

1197
01:02:55,880 --> 01:02:57,480
Speaker 1: and bolts the door. There's still a problem with that,

1198
01:02:57,600 --> 01:02:59,640
Speaker 1: of course. But then the gunman went and got a

1199
01:02:59,720 --> 01:03:01,960
Speaker 1: chair or something and stood on it shot him through

1200
01:03:02,000 --> 01:03:05,360
Speaker 1: the transom again the same probably that there's a bullet angles,

1201
01:03:05,920 --> 01:03:07,840
Speaker 1: Where did the chair come from? That? Where did the

1202
01:03:07,920 --> 01:03:10,800
Speaker 1: chair go to? Yeah, all that stuff. So that's about that.

1203
01:03:10,880 --> 01:03:12,880
Speaker 1: People have theorized on that one was quite a bit

1204
01:03:13,720 --> 01:03:19,320
Speaker 1: new theory. He was so apparently he was making people

1205
01:03:19,400 --> 01:03:22,520
Speaker 1: look through the transom window to prove to them that

1206
01:03:22,720 --> 01:03:25,000
Speaker 1: he knew them. Then that would prove that he was

1207
01:03:25,080 --> 01:03:29,200
Speaker 1: an idiot for leaving it unlatched. So he was standing

1208
01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:32,560
Speaker 1: up talking to somebody, said I don't know, you're not

1209
01:03:32,680 --> 01:03:34,480
Speaker 1: letting you in, and they said, oh, yeah, I have

1210
01:03:34,520 --> 01:03:36,720
Speaker 1: a gun, and he goes no, and they shoot him

1211
01:03:36,760 --> 01:03:39,200
Speaker 1: in the hand, shoot him twice in the chest. He

1212
01:03:39,360 --> 01:03:42,040
Speaker 1: falls off of the stool that he was standing on.

1213
01:03:42,680 --> 01:03:46,080
Speaker 1: They take their stuff and like run away. The little

1214
01:03:46,160 --> 01:03:49,120
Speaker 1: boy who crawls through lands on the stool and moves

1215
01:03:49,160 --> 01:03:52,240
Speaker 1: it to open the door and the and just doesn't

1216
01:03:52,280 --> 01:03:56,200
Speaker 1: even mention it to the cops. And that's how it happened. No,

1217
01:03:58,480 --> 01:04:00,560
Speaker 1: I thought I was Velma at the very least. So

1218
01:04:00,800 --> 01:04:03,960
Speaker 1: that was that was Scooby level. Okay, yeah it was.

1219
01:04:04,040 --> 01:04:06,000
Speaker 1: It was good. But there's still the whole problem of

1220
01:04:06,280 --> 01:04:08,560
Speaker 1: you know, snaking the hands through the transom and down

1221
01:04:08,600 --> 01:04:10,280
Speaker 1: to the right level and shooting him in the chest

1222
01:04:10,320 --> 01:04:12,080
Speaker 1: a couple of times. But if he was standing, if

1223
01:04:12,080 --> 01:04:14,680
Speaker 1: they were both standing on a if they were both

1224
01:04:14,760 --> 01:04:19,160
Speaker 1: standing on it did like a slightly performers who happened

1225
01:04:19,160 --> 01:04:21,280
Speaker 1: to walk around all day long, every day. And still

1226
01:04:21,480 --> 01:04:23,800
Speaker 1: if they were both standing on a stool, it would

1227
01:04:23,840 --> 01:04:31,680
Speaker 1: have been a slightly downward angle. But okay, okay, okay,

1228
01:04:31,760 --> 01:04:34,280
Speaker 1: let's go. Let's go to our next series, which is

1229
01:04:34,360 --> 01:04:36,560
Speaker 1: that our killer was still in the room when the

1230
01:04:36,600 --> 01:04:39,720
Speaker 1: policeman entered the room. He was a Maltese salcon. I

1231
01:04:39,840 --> 01:04:42,600
Speaker 1: like this one. I like this way more than it was.

1232
01:04:43,800 --> 01:04:46,560
Speaker 1: He was pretending to be a statue the maltesecon the

1233
01:04:46,600 --> 01:04:49,200
Speaker 1: whole time. This reminded me of just just today, actually

1234
01:04:49,280 --> 01:04:51,400
Speaker 1: I was it would reminded me of this old mad

1235
01:04:51,480 --> 01:04:53,360
Speaker 1: TV skit. Did you ever see the one with the

1236
01:04:53,440 --> 01:04:56,760
Speaker 1: department store mannequin killer mannequin? Yeah, that was one of

1237
01:04:56,840 --> 01:04:59,360
Speaker 1: the very first episode of the New Doctor Who series

1238
01:04:59,400 --> 01:05:03,080
Speaker 1: when they reached arted with Christopher Eckelson. Was mannequins come

1239
01:05:03,120 --> 01:05:08,640
Speaker 1: to life? Yes? Yes, yeah, yeah, so it could have

1240
01:05:08,680 --> 01:05:11,160
Speaker 1: been like that and this one, uh, these two women

1241
01:05:11,200 --> 01:05:13,320
Speaker 1: are it's after hours at the mall and they're cleaning up,

1242
01:05:13,320 --> 01:05:15,680
Speaker 1: and there's this guy dressed in a tennis outfit and

1243
01:05:15,880 --> 01:05:17,640
Speaker 1: pretended to be a mannequin, but he's like looks like

1244
01:05:17,720 --> 01:05:20,520
Speaker 1: a total psycho, and he's started moving towards them, and

1245
01:05:20,560 --> 01:05:23,280
Speaker 1: then whenever they turn around, he just freezes. He's like

1246
01:05:23,360 --> 01:05:27,120
Speaker 1: the angels, yeah from yeah, and then and then and

1247
01:05:27,160 --> 01:05:28,760
Speaker 1: then they said, and then one of them said, I

1248
01:05:28,800 --> 01:05:30,800
Speaker 1: don't know something about that mannequin just kind of creeps

1249
01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:32,439
Speaker 1: me out. Yeah, and then you go back to whatever

1250
01:05:32,480 --> 01:05:35,360
Speaker 1: they're doing. Yeah, it's great. It's it's a hilarious skip.

1251
01:05:35,680 --> 01:05:38,520
Speaker 1: It's called like Mad TV Killer Mannequin if you want

1252
01:05:38,520 --> 01:05:40,720
Speaker 1: to look it up. Um, but yeah, it could have

1253
01:05:40,760 --> 01:05:42,480
Speaker 1: been like that. You just stood there and pretended and

1254
01:05:42,600 --> 01:05:44,960
Speaker 1: just held very still and they didn't notice something. They

1255
01:05:45,040 --> 01:05:47,720
Speaker 1: just sort of split up, just to make sure I understand.

1256
01:05:47,760 --> 01:05:50,320
Speaker 1: The whole theory is that the killer was actually still

1257
01:05:50,520 --> 01:05:54,680
Speaker 1: in the apartment when the cops arrived. Yeah, okay, so

1258
01:05:54,800 --> 01:05:57,760
Speaker 1: I can I can see this theory playing out well,

1259
01:05:57,960 --> 01:06:02,120
Speaker 1: because door shuts, fight goes down, suddenly, here's ladies screaming

1260
01:06:02,160 --> 01:06:06,480
Speaker 1: and people pounding down the hallway and has to find

1261
01:06:06,840 --> 01:06:10,560
Speaker 1: somewhere to hide. My difficulty is I don't know the

1262
01:06:10,640 --> 01:06:14,600
Speaker 1: layout of the apartment, the way that it's connected to

1263
01:06:14,680 --> 01:06:17,360
Speaker 1: the business. I mean, he could have had sacks of

1264
01:06:17,600 --> 01:06:22,240
Speaker 1: laundry that somebody jumped into to hide and crawled out

1265
01:06:22,320 --> 01:06:23,880
Speaker 1: of in the middle of the night, or they could

1266
01:06:23,920 --> 01:06:27,040
Speaker 1: have been in his wardrobe. But there's a b jillion

1267
01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:31,560
Speaker 1: places that somebody could have not in the silly What

1268
01:06:31,800 --> 01:06:35,600
Speaker 1: was the story that the silly the William marchway, But

1269
01:06:35,720 --> 01:06:38,600
Speaker 1: there could have been real places that somebody could have

1270
01:06:38,800 --> 01:06:43,320
Speaker 1: actually hid for hours until everybody left, or even I

1271
01:06:43,400 --> 01:06:46,880
Speaker 1: mean even simpler than that, somebody could have hid in there.

1272
01:06:47,560 --> 01:06:50,760
Speaker 1: The kid comes in, the cops come in, the crowd

1273
01:06:50,920 --> 01:06:54,760
Speaker 1: comes in, They entered themselves with the crowd, and just

1274
01:06:55,360 --> 01:06:57,840
Speaker 1: makes his or her get away and then But that

1275
01:06:58,040 --> 01:06:59,919
Speaker 1: the thing, the thing about it is is I don't

1276
01:07:00,040 --> 01:07:02,040
Speaker 1: know that there was a crowd. I don't know, ye

1277
01:07:03,000 --> 01:07:05,880
Speaker 1: a crowd of people the trek, right, we don't know that.

1278
01:07:06,800 --> 01:07:08,640
Speaker 1: I don't know. Listen, we we don't think that they

1279
01:07:08,640 --> 01:07:11,200
Speaker 1: should let a crowd in. And yet what is the

1280
01:07:11,320 --> 01:07:14,680
Speaker 1: story that you did about the preacher that was having

1281
01:07:14,800 --> 01:07:19,640
Speaker 1: the affair and they let everybody trample all over this. Yeah,

1282
01:07:20,120 --> 01:07:23,439
Speaker 1: they shouldn't do what do that? But they did? Yeah.

1283
01:07:23,800 --> 01:07:25,560
Speaker 1: I mean. The other thing is is like I got

1284
01:07:25,840 --> 01:07:28,800
Speaker 1: I don't know how easy it was to find cop

1285
01:07:29,200 --> 01:07:34,200
Speaker 1: uniforms or even Yeah, I mean, it could have been

1286
01:07:34,200 --> 01:07:35,960
Speaker 1: a cop, but it could have been in the apartment

1287
01:07:36,040 --> 01:07:38,240
Speaker 1: dressed as a cop. The cop comes in, it's like,

1288
01:07:38,320 --> 01:07:41,200
Speaker 1: well the body he like slides behind him and then

1289
01:07:41,280 --> 01:07:44,680
Speaker 1: like you know, you know, makes them like pretend running

1290
01:07:44,680 --> 01:07:47,080
Speaker 1: noises and it's like, oh, here I am second on

1291
01:07:47,160 --> 01:07:49,800
Speaker 1: the scene. Here, let's do I mean, like a silent movie,

1292
01:07:49,880 --> 01:07:54,040
Speaker 1: somebody goes and the copses. That's weird. It sounds like

1293
01:07:54,120 --> 01:07:56,920
Speaker 1: somebody's running in a well, I mean like not even that,

1294
01:07:57,080 --> 01:07:59,800
Speaker 1: but you know, just slides in, you know, walks like

1295
01:08:00,040 --> 01:08:02,919
Speaker 1: tiptoes two steps back in the hallway and then walks

1296
01:08:02,960 --> 01:08:05,840
Speaker 1: around the corner back into the room and says, here,

1297
01:08:05,880 --> 01:08:08,840
Speaker 1: I am on your backup. Let's deal with this. You

1298
01:08:08,840 --> 01:08:11,520
Speaker 1: would again assume that you know, cops would know who

1299
01:08:11,640 --> 01:08:13,680
Speaker 1: the other cops in their beat. Well, it could have

1300
01:08:13,720 --> 01:08:15,800
Speaker 1: been it could have been a real co And you know,

1301
01:08:15,920 --> 01:08:18,040
Speaker 1: back in those days there was a lot more corruption,

1302
01:08:18,200 --> 01:08:20,599
Speaker 1: and so there's still a fair amount of corruption. There's

1303
01:08:20,640 --> 01:08:22,160
Speaker 1: some of that, but it was a lot more endemic

1304
01:08:22,240 --> 01:08:24,800
Speaker 1: in those days, and so there probably were the occasional

1305
01:08:24,920 --> 01:08:28,960
Speaker 1: cops who would maybe wax somebody, you know, for one

1306
01:08:28,960 --> 01:08:31,960
Speaker 1: of their mopster friends. You know, So it could have

1307
01:08:32,040 --> 01:08:33,640
Speaker 1: been something like that. I guess that would be you

1308
01:08:33,680 --> 01:08:36,360
Speaker 1: know another Yeah, again, I think this is a fairly

1309
01:08:36,680 --> 01:08:39,320
Speaker 1: tiny little apartment, and so I don't know how feasible

1310
01:08:39,400 --> 01:08:41,600
Speaker 1: that would actually be to pull off a stunt like that.

1311
01:08:41,960 --> 01:08:43,880
Speaker 1: And I don't either because we don't really know the

1312
01:08:43,960 --> 01:08:48,160
Speaker 1: layout either. That's the trek. With the right layout, Yeah, yeah,

1313
01:08:48,240 --> 01:08:50,799
Speaker 1: with the right layout of the building and the apartment,

1314
01:08:50,960 --> 01:08:54,080
Speaker 1: it could work. Yeah, it's not great, it's not a

1315
01:08:54,120 --> 01:08:56,479
Speaker 1: good theory. It's just you know, again, at all, it

1316
01:08:56,560 --> 01:08:58,360
Speaker 1: all kind of depends, you know, when the if you've

1317
01:08:58,360 --> 01:09:01,000
Speaker 1: got witnesses standing around like by standards, even if they

1318
01:09:01,040 --> 01:09:03,599
Speaker 1: haven't entered the room, they're blocking the exit from the room,

1319
01:09:03,640 --> 01:09:05,599
Speaker 1: and there, you know, when the cops sort of moves

1320
01:09:05,600 --> 01:09:07,840
Speaker 1: into the frame and says, hey, I'm here, there's got

1321
01:09:07,920 --> 01:09:09,720
Speaker 1: to be at least one or two people say where

1322
01:09:09,720 --> 01:09:12,439
Speaker 1: did he come from? Here's the question. Was there a

1323
01:09:12,520 --> 01:09:17,920
Speaker 1: fireplace with like a chimney? Nothing? Yeah, I don't know,

1324
01:09:18,360 --> 01:09:20,200
Speaker 1: this is like a New York City tenement building. I

1325
01:09:20,240 --> 01:09:22,640
Speaker 1: don't think any of those things had fired. I mean,

1326
01:09:22,720 --> 01:09:25,960
Speaker 1: those things were tinder boxes to start with, so I

1327
01:09:26,040 --> 01:09:28,840
Speaker 1: can't imagine they would laugh or have a set up

1328
01:09:28,880 --> 01:09:32,680
Speaker 1: to encourage fire. All right, Well he may have had

1329
01:09:32,720 --> 01:09:38,040
Speaker 1: a fire because the iron stove, but not a fireplace. Okay,

1330
01:09:38,120 --> 01:09:40,240
Speaker 1: never mind. I was gonna think it was like, you know,

1331
01:09:41,160 --> 01:09:44,080
Speaker 1: it came down the chimney, or came up Santa Claus'll

1332
01:09:44,120 --> 01:09:46,439
Speaker 1: knock out the chimney. Maybe came in and or just

1333
01:09:46,560 --> 01:09:49,840
Speaker 1: hit in the chimney. Yeah, maybe the whole time. Yeah,

1334
01:09:49,880 --> 01:09:53,320
Speaker 1: I I kind of doubt it. The only stories I

1335
01:09:53,400 --> 01:09:55,720
Speaker 1: hear about real life people using chimneys to get in

1336
01:09:55,800 --> 01:10:02,360
Speaker 1: and out of it always yeah, always yeah. So yeah, yeah,

1337
01:10:02,439 --> 01:10:04,680
Speaker 1: I don't think so. Uh well, let's move on to

1338
01:10:04,720 --> 01:10:06,680
Speaker 1: our next story, which is very similar to what you

1339
01:10:06,760 --> 01:10:10,639
Speaker 1: were thinking, which is the killer. Uh was the killer

1340
01:10:10,720 --> 01:10:13,680
Speaker 1: actually was dressed as a cop, and he happened to

1341
01:10:13,720 --> 01:10:15,680
Speaker 1: be the first cop on the scene. So he's like

1342
01:10:16,080 --> 01:10:18,240
Speaker 1: what he so what he does is he liked that

1343
01:10:18,360 --> 01:10:21,680
Speaker 1: it's like this, So you kill the guy and then

1344
01:10:21,720 --> 01:10:24,280
Speaker 1: you leave lockingtrough behind you. And then when when the

1345
01:10:24,280 --> 01:10:27,280
Speaker 1: woman comes, comes and gets you. You come back and

1346
01:10:27,439 --> 01:10:30,439
Speaker 1: you say, like, oh, well, knock, knock, knock. Nobody asked,

1347
01:10:30,479 --> 01:10:32,800
Speaker 1: I'll try the door. It's locked, even though it's not

1348
01:10:32,880 --> 01:10:37,320
Speaker 1: actually express situation. Yeah, yeah, I'm not buying this one

1349
01:10:37,400 --> 01:10:39,600
Speaker 1: because again, you know, the kid did actually go on

1350
01:10:39,680 --> 01:10:41,720
Speaker 1: the inside and actually unlock it from the you know,

1351
01:10:41,800 --> 01:10:43,240
Speaker 1: so I don't know how the cop really could have

1352
01:10:43,320 --> 01:10:46,360
Speaker 1: faked that well, but I'm desperate for theories here. No,

1353
01:10:46,600 --> 01:10:50,479
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess there is like some ambiguity about

1354
01:10:50,680 --> 01:10:54,360
Speaker 1: who went to get the kid, yeah, and where the

1355
01:10:54,439 --> 01:10:56,960
Speaker 1: kid came from. So, you know, is it possible that

1356
01:10:57,560 --> 01:11:01,600
Speaker 1: the copt up the key in the door? You know,

1357
01:11:01,720 --> 01:11:04,479
Speaker 1: it wasn't it wasn't locked. He had the key he

1358
01:11:04,800 --> 01:11:06,800
Speaker 1: or he locked it from the outside, try to get in.

1359
01:11:07,120 --> 01:11:09,120
Speaker 1: He said, hey, go find a kid for me. The

1360
01:11:09,200 --> 01:11:11,599
Speaker 1: woman runs away, He opens the door, sticks the key

1361
01:11:11,680 --> 01:11:17,280
Speaker 1: in the lock, pending still pretending it's locked. Always the

1362
01:11:17,400 --> 01:11:21,439
Speaker 1: kid up over. Okay, that's that's a great I had

1363
01:11:21,600 --> 01:11:27,519
Speaker 1: never kid, because that's part of these locks that we're

1364
01:11:27,520 --> 01:11:31,559
Speaker 1: talking about, is bolts. Aside those locks, you can turn

1365
01:11:32,000 --> 01:11:36,040
Speaker 1: right forever and think you're unlocking it. You could turn left,

1366
01:11:36,560 --> 01:11:39,439
Speaker 1: you know, and you turn it the three degrees left

1367
01:11:40,479 --> 01:11:42,800
Speaker 1: or to the right, whatever whichever way it is, and

1368
01:11:43,240 --> 01:11:44,960
Speaker 1: you lock it, and you can keep turning it as

1369
01:11:45,000 --> 01:11:48,120
Speaker 1: you mentioned forever and it'll just keep locking it and

1370
01:11:48,200 --> 01:11:50,519
Speaker 1: locking and locked right. Or you can turn it the

1371
01:11:50,600 --> 01:11:53,080
Speaker 1: other way and keep unlocking it unlocking on looking it.

1372
01:11:53,439 --> 01:11:56,479
Speaker 1: And it's likely that you wouldn't. You don't really know,

1373
01:11:57,160 --> 01:11:59,080
Speaker 1: you know, it's kind of makes the same kind of

1374
01:12:00,479 --> 01:12:04,200
Speaker 1: sound a lot of times. And so he sticks the

1375
01:12:04,280 --> 01:12:07,000
Speaker 1: key in, locks it back up, poists the kid up,

1376
01:12:07,400 --> 01:12:09,960
Speaker 1: and the kid goes down and unlocks it and says, yeah,

1377
01:12:10,280 --> 01:12:13,320
Speaker 1: he was in the you know whatever, we've relocked it,

1378
01:12:13,400 --> 01:12:18,000
Speaker 1: blah blah, and goes in, or the woman stays the

1379
01:12:18,120 --> 01:12:19,920
Speaker 1: cock goes to the kid and says, hey, kid, I'll

1380
01:12:19,920 --> 01:12:24,519
Speaker 1: pay you, you know, twenty bucks that time money, more

1381
01:12:24,600 --> 01:12:27,960
Speaker 1: like a penny that time money, like, you know, some

1382
01:12:28,160 --> 01:12:31,880
Speaker 1: absurd amount to a child to say this door was locked,

1383
01:12:32,720 --> 01:12:34,840
Speaker 1: and again you would assume right that they would have

1384
01:12:34,920 --> 01:12:37,080
Speaker 1: done their due diligence and that kid would have admitted

1385
01:12:37,120 --> 01:12:39,640
Speaker 1: and blah, we gotten to the bottom of yea, but

1386
01:12:39,800 --> 01:12:42,200
Speaker 1: also as possible, maybe not. But I kind of like

1387
01:12:42,360 --> 01:12:45,599
Speaker 1: this introim he says to the woman, go find a kid.

1388
01:12:45,680 --> 01:12:47,599
Speaker 1: You have kid, right, of course you do. You're a woman.

1389
01:12:47,640 --> 01:12:51,280
Speaker 1: You have a kid. Go find go find your smallest kid,

1390
01:12:51,600 --> 01:12:55,680
Speaker 1: find your smallest child. We're going to and she goes, yeah,

1391
01:12:55,720 --> 01:12:57,760
Speaker 1: of course I will, and he sticks the key in

1392
01:12:58,000 --> 01:13:01,120
Speaker 1: and yeah. There's only one problem this theory, and that's

1393
01:13:01,200 --> 01:13:03,360
Speaker 1: just you know, even though it's my own theory, and

1394
01:13:03,479 --> 01:13:06,160
Speaker 1: that is that if the cop actually was the hit man,

1395
01:13:06,400 --> 01:13:11,000
Speaker 1: which is not beyond them, no, not at all, but

1396
01:13:11,080 --> 01:13:14,599
Speaker 1: if he was, then uh, why go through all these

1397
01:13:14,680 --> 01:13:18,000
Speaker 1: gyrations essentially call a lot of attention to this case

1398
01:13:18,360 --> 01:13:21,400
Speaker 1: to make it his lockdoor mystery kind of delio when

1399
01:13:21,680 --> 01:13:24,280
Speaker 1: that's gonna cause a lot more attention to be paid

1400
01:13:24,320 --> 01:13:26,680
Speaker 1: to this whole thing. When typically, you know, murders in

1401
01:13:26,720 --> 01:13:29,120
Speaker 1: those days, especially poor immigrants and stuff like that, it

1402
01:13:29,240 --> 01:13:33,160
Speaker 1: probably they probably weren't investigated too terribly hard. But but

1403
01:13:33,400 --> 01:13:38,040
Speaker 1: again we've talked about this in in freaking numerous stories.

1404
01:13:38,840 --> 01:13:41,320
Speaker 1: What was the Jim Gray? Was he the one that

1405
01:13:41,400 --> 01:13:44,200
Speaker 1: was on the boat that disappeared and his wife was

1406
01:13:44,280 --> 01:13:48,400
Speaker 1: inflicated as doing it to him? Oh yeah, now that

1407
01:13:48,560 --> 01:13:53,120
Speaker 1: was in Tasmania, that was, but but you know, nobody

1408
01:13:53,240 --> 01:13:57,320
Speaker 1: expected that story to really make the news. It was

1409
01:13:57,720 --> 01:14:02,320
Speaker 1: this guy disappeared and and it's weird and if his

1410
01:14:02,400 --> 01:14:05,760
Speaker 1: wife really did it, she was like people disappear from

1411
01:14:05,800 --> 01:14:08,080
Speaker 1: their boats all the time, and the boats go down

1412
01:14:08,200 --> 01:14:11,320
Speaker 1: and it's no biggil. Suddenly boom it's we've talked about

1413
01:14:11,320 --> 01:14:14,679
Speaker 1: this before. Boom it's suddenly it sticks. And the cop

1414
01:14:14,840 --> 01:14:20,599
Speaker 1: is like, O, S, I have to fabricate a story

1415
01:14:20,720 --> 01:14:27,599
Speaker 1: real fast because everybody's asking what happened about the locked door? Yeah?

1416
01:14:27,800 --> 01:14:31,160
Speaker 1: I have a theory about this, okay. My theory is

1417
01:14:31,280 --> 01:14:33,920
Speaker 1: that since we don't know how long it took this

1418
01:14:34,000 --> 01:14:36,160
Speaker 1: woman to find this cop, we don't know where she

1419
01:14:36,320 --> 01:14:39,080
Speaker 1: found him. He could have been walking down the hallway

1420
01:14:39,960 --> 01:14:43,599
Speaker 1: and she came down exiting the crime scene. He could

1421
01:14:43,640 --> 01:14:45,600
Speaker 1: have been standing right outside the front door. Well, I

1422
01:14:45,640 --> 01:14:47,360
Speaker 1: mean he could have, and she could have said, oh,

1423
01:14:47,439 --> 01:14:50,920
Speaker 1: thank goodness, officer, I heard a scuffle, please help me,

1424
01:14:51,400 --> 01:14:56,559
Speaker 1: and he thought a crap, uh, you know whatever. He's

1425
01:14:56,600 --> 01:14:59,840
Speaker 1: a cop, but also he's a human, and he thinks she,

1426
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:02,120
Speaker 1: you know, as I did this, Okay, cool LL's we

1427
01:15:02,200 --> 01:15:04,200
Speaker 1: got to find a way to make it seem like

1428
01:15:05,120 --> 01:15:07,120
Speaker 1: she doesn't like I didn't do it. So he goes

1429
01:15:07,120 --> 01:15:08,920
Speaker 1: to the door and he goes it was locked, and

1430
01:15:09,080 --> 01:15:11,280
Speaker 1: she goes, oh my gosh, officer, what do you mean

1431
01:15:11,400 --> 01:15:14,639
Speaker 1: it's locked? How could it be locked? And he says,

1432
01:15:14,800 --> 01:15:17,240
Speaker 1: I don't know. We'll look this, windows open, you gonna

1433
01:15:17,240 --> 01:15:22,439
Speaker 1: find your smaller child. No, I'm just saying there's like

1434
01:15:22,600 --> 01:15:28,920
Speaker 1: there's some it's good. Yeah, king on the officers part, right,

1435
01:15:29,080 --> 01:15:31,200
Speaker 1: but also like kind of dumb thinking, right, because he

1436
01:15:31,280 --> 01:15:33,960
Speaker 1: could have been like, wow, whoops, an immigrant got killed?

1437
01:15:35,160 --> 01:15:40,759
Speaker 1: Who right? But I don't care. People. People are often idiots,

1438
01:15:40,920 --> 01:15:42,880
Speaker 1: especially if they are carrying out a hit for them

1439
01:15:43,080 --> 01:15:45,800
Speaker 1: or whatever. If they're doing something bad, they're trying to

1440
01:15:45,880 --> 01:15:48,479
Speaker 1: there there, and their gut reaction is going to be

1441
01:15:48,560 --> 01:15:51,240
Speaker 1: to try to cover for it. It's not a good

1442
01:15:51,320 --> 01:15:54,600
Speaker 1: it's not great. Strange way to cover it is, but

1443
01:15:55,479 --> 01:15:59,160
Speaker 1: I can kind of understand the thought process of saying, well,

1444
01:15:59,200 --> 01:16:03,800
Speaker 1: it's locked, and maybe even she said, well the windows open,

1445
01:16:03,880 --> 01:16:06,800
Speaker 1: so I had a kid, he'll he'll fit right through that.

1446
01:16:06,920 --> 01:16:09,599
Speaker 1: We'll see he'll unlock it. And the cop coast Oh

1447
01:16:09,680 --> 01:16:17,679
Speaker 1: my god, what no, like yeah, really hopeful person, Yeah,

1448
01:16:17,720 --> 01:16:20,400
Speaker 1: stop it. I mean it's possible, it's not. It's not

1449
01:16:20,520 --> 01:16:23,479
Speaker 1: a great theory, but none of these are really great theories. Anyway,

1450
01:16:23,600 --> 01:16:26,040
Speaker 1: So one conceivable reason why I can think that he

1451
01:16:26,040 --> 01:16:27,880
Speaker 1: would he would claim that it was locked, and that

1452
01:16:28,080 --> 01:16:29,920
Speaker 1: is that he was not totally sure that is a

1453
01:16:29,960 --> 01:16:33,080
Speaker 1: door was yet totally dead, which is possible, you know,

1454
01:16:33,280 --> 01:16:36,040
Speaker 1: And so okay, let's pretend. Let's let's pretend, we'll let

1455
01:16:36,080 --> 01:16:37,760
Speaker 1: him bleed out for a little while, but they go

1456
01:16:37,880 --> 01:16:39,599
Speaker 1: find a kid. But other than that, I can't really

1457
01:16:39,640 --> 01:16:43,000
Speaker 1: think of any reason. But that is a possibility right there.

1458
01:16:43,080 --> 01:16:45,080
Speaker 1: That's but other than that, I can't think of any possible,

1459
01:16:45,160 --> 01:16:47,680
Speaker 1: conceivable reason why he would say, oh, you know, hey,

1460
01:16:47,720 --> 01:16:50,679
Speaker 1: look at this a lock door mystery unless she unless

1461
01:16:50,720 --> 01:16:54,080
Speaker 1: she saw him coming, I mean kind of even then,

1462
01:16:54,280 --> 01:16:56,200
Speaker 1: it's like, even then, it doesn't make any sense. Well,

1463
01:16:56,240 --> 01:16:58,120
Speaker 1: if she saw him at the door, and she said,

1464
01:16:58,200 --> 01:17:00,240
Speaker 1: but if she saw him closing the door, then well,

1465
01:17:00,320 --> 01:17:02,519
Speaker 1: not closing. But if if he was at the very

1466
01:17:02,640 --> 01:17:05,800
Speaker 1: I mean, this would be like an incredible coincidence, right,

1467
01:17:06,120 --> 01:17:09,679
Speaker 1: this would be just one of the most incredluences the news.

1468
01:17:10,000 --> 01:17:12,479
Speaker 1: But if she saw him at the door and he

1469
01:17:12,560 --> 01:17:15,599
Speaker 1: had just closed it and she goes, officer, it's crazy,

1470
01:17:15,640 --> 01:17:19,360
Speaker 1: I just heard a scuffle coming from there, and he goes, Yeah,

1471
01:17:19,760 --> 01:17:21,680
Speaker 1: I heard the scuffle too. I was trying to get

1472
01:17:21,720 --> 01:17:25,559
Speaker 1: in but it locked. Yeah. Again, it would be an

1473
01:17:25,600 --> 01:17:29,840
Speaker 1: incredible I'm literally just spitballing at this point, but that, Yeah,

1474
01:17:29,960 --> 01:17:32,679
Speaker 1: that wouldn't be That wouldn't be even that incredible a mystery.

1475
01:17:33,000 --> 01:17:35,240
Speaker 1: Every account that I've heard, she went and got a

1476
01:17:35,320 --> 01:17:39,040
Speaker 1: police officer. He wasn't just standing there. But we've also

1477
01:17:39,160 --> 01:17:45,400
Speaker 1: already decided that the reporting that great. But it's not,

1478
01:17:45,760 --> 01:17:47,880
Speaker 1: like I said, I'm spit bawling. It's not a great theory.

1479
01:17:47,960 --> 01:17:53,160
Speaker 1: But it's something that I'm struggling because all of the

1480
01:17:53,320 --> 01:17:55,640
Speaker 1: theories we've done, and all of the theories that we

1481
01:17:55,880 --> 01:18:00,240
Speaker 1: have here, they're all bad. They're really grain it up.

1482
01:18:00,520 --> 01:18:03,320
Speaker 1: They're very grainy. Yeah, there's there's that's a nice way

1483
01:18:03,360 --> 01:18:05,040
Speaker 1: I can say it. Not much reason for her for

1484
01:18:05,120 --> 01:18:07,080
Speaker 1: the for the cop if he was a killer, to actually,

1485
01:18:07,360 --> 01:18:09,680
Speaker 1: you know, create a lockdoor mystery. You know, there really

1486
01:18:09,800 --> 01:18:12,920
Speaker 1: isn't no, no, let's just take that off to the table.

1487
01:18:12,960 --> 01:18:17,200
Speaker 1: Though they didn't in to create the genre of the

1488
01:18:17,320 --> 01:18:20,360
Speaker 1: locked door mystery. Yeah, well they didn't because that hadn't

1489
01:18:20,360 --> 01:18:25,640
Speaker 1: even a thing that wasn't at least one before that

1490
01:18:26,040 --> 01:18:30,800
Speaker 1: Joseph found L, Well, you are you making this up?

1491
01:18:30,880 --> 01:18:33,880
Speaker 1: Because I didn't know that. Well no, let me let

1492
01:18:33,920 --> 01:18:37,760
Speaker 1: me re rephrase what I'm saying. I didn't think in

1493
01:18:37,880 --> 01:18:42,400
Speaker 1: the general conscious or the consciousness, that such a thing

1494
01:18:42,600 --> 01:18:45,360
Speaker 1: as a locked door mystery was a thing. I didn't

1495
01:18:45,400 --> 01:18:48,760
Speaker 1: know that people were calling it that and would say,

1496
01:18:48,880 --> 01:18:51,839
Speaker 1: let's create one. That's where I'm going with that statement.

1497
01:18:51,880 --> 01:18:54,120
Speaker 1: And I think people knew what to say. Hey, I'd

1498
01:18:54,160 --> 01:18:58,000
Speaker 1: like to create my own blah blah blah. Yeah, yeah,

1499
01:18:58,520 --> 01:19:00,600
Speaker 1: there actually had been a well publish eyes case and

1500
01:19:00,680 --> 01:19:04,519
Speaker 1: in nine years pretty okay, Okay, then I take it back.

1501
01:19:04,720 --> 01:19:07,680
Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't quite realize that. That's one of

1502
01:19:07,720 --> 01:19:10,360
Speaker 1: the issues I had with the they wanted to make

1503
01:19:10,479 --> 01:19:14,639
Speaker 1: a locked door mystery fully fledged. Example of this type

1504
01:19:14,640 --> 01:19:17,679
Speaker 1: of story is generally held to be Edgar Allan pose

1505
01:19:17,960 --> 01:19:21,240
Speaker 1: the Murder of the Room Morgue in eighteen forty one.

1506
01:19:22,000 --> 01:19:26,640
Speaker 1: So in the mid eighteen hundreds is when lockedoor theoretically

1507
01:19:26,800 --> 01:19:30,920
Speaker 1: po created that based off of some actual thing that

1508
01:19:31,040 --> 01:19:34,200
Speaker 1: would assume, but that they were rose to prominence in

1509
01:19:34,400 --> 01:19:37,560
Speaker 1: popular culture in the mid eighteen hundreds. This was the

1510
01:19:37,680 --> 01:19:40,280
Speaker 1: nineteen thirties. They were a thing By the way, can

1511
01:19:40,320 --> 01:19:43,479
Speaker 1: we talk about for a second about so we already

1512
01:19:43,520 --> 01:19:45,800
Speaker 1: did to pome mystery? Oh? I know, but I'm just

1513
01:19:46,240 --> 01:19:50,400
Speaker 1: so I have been binging Altered Carbon on Netflix. That's

1514
01:19:50,439 --> 01:19:52,880
Speaker 1: just a disaster. Yeah, oh no, no, no, no, there

1515
01:19:53,200 --> 01:19:57,000
Speaker 1: the whoever it is that has been writing and writing

1516
01:19:57,080 --> 01:20:00,439
Speaker 1: the script for and then playing the po character. Uh,

1517
01:20:01,200 --> 01:20:04,120
Speaker 1: I did not read a lot of Pope, but is

1518
01:20:04,360 --> 01:20:08,080
Speaker 1: to me the perfect Poe character. So if you haven't

1519
01:20:08,120 --> 01:20:12,599
Speaker 1: watched it, it's very apropos. Was that what you say? Exactly?

1520
01:20:13,400 --> 01:20:17,839
Speaker 1: Thank you, Joe. We're now friends again, continue on my friend. Okay,

1521
01:20:18,880 --> 01:20:21,439
Speaker 1: let's move out to another area here. This one actually

1522
01:20:21,479 --> 01:20:24,479
Speaker 1: makes one more sense. Uh, that is, what if there

1523
01:20:24,560 --> 01:20:27,680
Speaker 1: was a secret passage and we're not friends again? You

1524
01:20:27,760 --> 01:20:30,920
Speaker 1: don't like this one. I hate this theory. Yeah, well

1525
01:20:31,080 --> 01:20:33,320
Speaker 1: it makes the most sense, because really, why bother with

1526
01:20:33,360 --> 01:20:35,559
Speaker 1: all this locked door crap, you know, unless but if

1527
01:20:35,680 --> 01:20:39,200
Speaker 1: there's a secret passage into there through the through the walls,

1528
01:20:39,439 --> 01:20:42,360
Speaker 1: like you pick up the the what's the Murphy band

1529
01:20:43,200 --> 01:20:45,320
Speaker 1: Like he's got a Murphy bed that opens and it's

1530
01:20:45,360 --> 01:20:47,240
Speaker 1: a hole in the floor kind of thing. Yeah, maybe

1531
01:20:47,280 --> 01:20:49,400
Speaker 1: something like that, you know, I mean, some floor a

1532
01:20:49,520 --> 01:20:51,519
Speaker 1: group of floor boards you lift up out of the

1533
01:20:51,560 --> 01:20:53,600
Speaker 1: way and there will hold out of the basement. And

1534
01:20:53,720 --> 01:20:56,400
Speaker 1: it makes the most sense because otherwise why bother. But

1535
01:20:56,960 --> 01:20:59,240
Speaker 1: apparently the police had thought of that. They looked really

1536
01:20:59,320 --> 01:21:02,519
Speaker 1: hard first. Yeah, of course I could have been super

1537
01:21:02,600 --> 01:21:06,120
Speaker 1: well concealed. But apparently the police tore the place apart.

1538
01:21:06,520 --> 01:21:09,520
Speaker 1: I mean they really, they really tore up the floorboards

1539
01:21:09,520 --> 01:21:12,160
Speaker 1: and everything. So I have I have known people that

1540
01:21:12,400 --> 01:21:16,200
Speaker 1: have had those kind of situations in their home, whether

1541
01:21:16,360 --> 01:21:19,960
Speaker 1: they were new or old. And it is only when

1542
01:21:20,840 --> 01:21:26,200
Speaker 1: it is one very large feature that covers another feature

1543
01:21:26,280 --> 01:21:29,240
Speaker 1: in the home, like a sliding bookcase or a swinging

1544
01:21:29,400 --> 01:21:33,800
Speaker 1: bookcase that goes against the wall, that they tend to

1545
01:21:33,960 --> 01:21:37,240
Speaker 1: go unnoticed. This whole like a lot of times you

1546
01:21:37,360 --> 01:21:39,880
Speaker 1: see the well, I pulled the rug aside and I

1547
01:21:39,960 --> 01:21:43,719
Speaker 1: grabbed the ring, and these set of floorboards popped out

1548
01:21:44,840 --> 01:21:48,160
Speaker 1: after a short order. They tend to not appear as

1549
01:21:48,240 --> 01:21:52,080
Speaker 1: if they should sink together. They don't blend it. They

1550
01:21:52,080 --> 01:21:55,640
Speaker 1: don't blend because they're not sealed. And so you know,

1551
01:21:56,439 --> 01:21:59,439
Speaker 1: if anybody's ever worked with wood and let a cured

1552
01:21:59,520 --> 01:22:02,920
Speaker 1: piece of would sit next to another, they bend and

1553
01:22:02,960 --> 01:22:09,720
Speaker 1: they twisted a growing up. One of our neighbors has

1554
01:22:10,360 --> 01:22:13,720
Speaker 1: actually still has a beach house, um, and he's kind

1555
01:22:13,720 --> 01:22:17,360
Speaker 1: of like an actual pirate in life, and the beach

1556
01:22:17,400 --> 01:22:19,280
Speaker 1: house that he has has a bunch of these. The

1557
01:22:19,720 --> 01:22:24,840
Speaker 1: entrance to the master bedroom is a bookcase hidden doorway, um.

1558
01:22:24,960 --> 01:22:28,719
Speaker 1: And then there's a secret treasure trove room upstairs. There's

1559
01:22:28,760 --> 01:22:31,600
Speaker 1: this bunk room that has like four bunk beds, and

1560
01:22:31,680 --> 01:22:35,240
Speaker 1: there's a room hidden behind one of the panels behind

1561
01:22:35,320 --> 01:22:39,400
Speaker 1: the bunk bed that the panels are right behind the posts.

1562
01:22:39,960 --> 01:22:43,960
Speaker 1: You have to know, yeah, it's they're right behind it's

1563
01:22:44,000 --> 01:22:46,800
Speaker 1: it's really well hidden because the posts aren't totally in

1564
01:22:47,000 --> 01:22:51,240
Speaker 1: the wall. I mean, it's really it's really really well done.

1565
01:22:51,360 --> 01:22:53,320
Speaker 1: That's the hard thing if you're if you're looking to say,

1566
01:22:53,439 --> 01:22:55,599
Speaker 1: like you've got to do something like that to hide

1567
01:22:55,640 --> 01:22:57,639
Speaker 1: the seams, because like if you've got just a plane

1568
01:22:57,760 --> 01:23:00,640
Speaker 1: plaster wall like on the walls of the room right here,

1569
01:23:00,840 --> 01:23:03,040
Speaker 1: how did that seem It's been popularly really hard. But

1570
01:23:03,240 --> 01:23:08,519
Speaker 1: behind like that chest of drawers there totally be hidden there.

1571
01:23:08,680 --> 01:23:10,679
Speaker 1: There's definitely ways to do. Of course the police thought

1572
01:23:10,720 --> 01:23:13,560
Speaker 1: of that. You would think, yeah, so I wanted to

1573
01:23:13,600 --> 01:23:16,320
Speaker 1: know how much When you say they tore the place apart.

1574
01:23:16,760 --> 01:23:20,120
Speaker 1: I really want to know. Were they in there with

1575
01:23:20,360 --> 01:23:24,320
Speaker 1: claw Hammer's tearing crap up. I don't know. I had

1576
01:23:24,360 --> 01:23:27,719
Speaker 1: heard they actually took up floorboards. Again, I'm not totally

1577
01:23:27,840 --> 01:23:32,599
Speaker 1: sure about that, but yeah, I know they're they're all done.

1578
01:23:32,680 --> 01:23:34,400
Speaker 1: It's like, well, we're all done here, see you later.

1579
01:23:37,040 --> 01:23:40,400
Speaker 1: I'll see you next week at the ballroom fundraiser. Yeah,

1580
01:23:41,240 --> 01:23:43,519
Speaker 1: but you know, I'm assuming it is stuff like you know,

1581
01:23:43,600 --> 01:23:46,719
Speaker 1: if they were bookcases and tables, they moved them aside

1582
01:23:46,800 --> 01:23:48,800
Speaker 1: to look at the wall behind. I took up the

1583
01:23:48,920 --> 01:23:52,559
Speaker 1: ruck and yeah, yeah, of course they must have. I mean,

1584
01:23:52,600 --> 01:23:55,519
Speaker 1: because you know, they've got to look for that secret passage.

1585
01:23:55,560 --> 01:23:58,920
Speaker 1: They didn't find one. They looked pretty hard. Yeah, And again,

1586
01:23:58,960 --> 01:24:01,639
Speaker 1: these are these are guys or policemen that are used

1587
01:24:01,680 --> 01:24:04,479
Speaker 1: to searching places, and they know where people hide stuff

1588
01:24:04,560 --> 01:24:06,680
Speaker 1: and stuff like that, you know, especially I mean, and

1589
01:24:06,960 --> 01:24:10,040
Speaker 1: we're also talking like what I mean, Prohibition was kind

1590
01:24:10,080 --> 01:24:13,800
Speaker 1: of like around this time, and so we're talking like

1591
01:24:14,000 --> 01:24:18,040
Speaker 1: actual Prohibition cops who are actually used to looking for

1592
01:24:20,120 --> 01:24:24,600
Speaker 1: hidden speak easy right. Obviously they weren't always looking for it,

1593
01:24:24,800 --> 01:24:28,160
Speaker 1: but some were looking forward because they wanted it. And

1594
01:24:28,880 --> 01:24:32,080
Speaker 1: many of these cops. Would you know that was that

1595
01:24:32,240 --> 01:24:35,559
Speaker 1: was the thing. They were actually specializing in finding these

1596
01:24:35,640 --> 01:24:38,000
Speaker 1: kind of hiden hidden spots. There was a lot of

1597
01:24:38,040 --> 01:24:40,840
Speaker 1: that stuff going on with prohibition too. I saw this thing.

1598
01:24:40,880 --> 01:24:42,880
Speaker 1: I read this article a while back, is about some

1599
01:24:43,200 --> 01:24:45,160
Speaker 1: famous place in New York. I can't remember the name

1600
01:24:45,200 --> 01:24:48,280
Speaker 1: of it, but the bar it had, and behind the

1601
01:24:48,320 --> 01:24:50,280
Speaker 1: bar there were all these shells with bottles on them,

1602
01:24:50,400 --> 01:24:52,160
Speaker 1: and they had this cool set up right there where

1603
01:24:52,160 --> 01:24:54,200
Speaker 1: the bartender. If there was a raid, you could just

1604
01:24:54,240 --> 01:24:57,160
Speaker 1: pull a lever and essentially the bottom would drought would

1605
01:24:57,160 --> 01:25:00,400
Speaker 1: open and all the shelves would just just wrote ninety

1606
01:25:00,400 --> 01:25:04,120
Speaker 1: degrees and the bottles would just drop straight down and

1607
01:25:04,240 --> 01:25:06,960
Speaker 1: into a shoot that went down into the basement. Yeah.

1608
01:25:07,160 --> 01:25:09,559
Speaker 1: I just totally destroyed everything. I mean it was really

1609
01:25:09,720 --> 01:25:12,040
Speaker 1: it was a really cool set. Yeah. I mean it's

1610
01:25:12,400 --> 01:25:16,080
Speaker 1: lose a dozen bottles were the booze or get busted.

1611
01:25:16,360 --> 01:25:21,600
Speaker 1: I would break a bottle. My grandfather ran booze. I

1612
01:25:21,680 --> 01:25:24,200
Speaker 1: had a great alcohol who was a bootlegger. He but

1613
01:25:24,400 --> 01:25:26,640
Speaker 1: he was a kid when he did. He was like

1614
01:25:26,720 --> 01:25:29,760
Speaker 1: early teens um and he and his brother would um

1615
01:25:30,520 --> 01:25:34,000
Speaker 1: run like driving cars and if they got pulled over,

1616
01:25:34,800 --> 01:25:37,360
Speaker 1: they was like, it wasn't suspicious because the suspicion was

1617
01:25:37,800 --> 01:25:41,280
Speaker 1: of these like thirteen year olds or somehow driving right,

1618
01:25:41,400 --> 01:25:44,760
Speaker 1: It wasn't like the bootleggers, And so that was there,

1619
01:25:44,960 --> 01:25:49,360
Speaker 1: the like bootlegger trick was. Yeah. Yeah, I actually had

1620
01:25:49,360 --> 01:25:53,560
Speaker 1: a conversation today with my grandmother about prohibition booze and

1621
01:25:53,680 --> 01:25:57,800
Speaker 1: the things that happened, and it's it's funny, like the

1622
01:25:57,960 --> 01:26:00,840
Speaker 1: things that she would be immediately like, well, obviously they

1623
01:26:00,880 --> 01:26:04,360
Speaker 1: were doing this, and like, Grandma, nobody's done that since

1624
01:26:04,560 --> 01:26:11,400
Speaker 1: like the what do you mean obviously you weren't even born?

1625
01:26:11,560 --> 01:26:15,960
Speaker 1: Then why are you saying that heard that stuff from

1626
01:26:17,200 --> 01:26:20,000
Speaker 1: she heard it growing up. But you know, it was

1627
01:26:20,080 --> 01:26:22,639
Speaker 1: just a funny. It's just funny that at dinner tonight

1628
01:26:22,680 --> 01:26:26,920
Speaker 1: I had that conversation with her about Yeah, it was

1629
01:26:27,000 --> 01:26:30,120
Speaker 1: a fun time, man, but it's worth mentioning. Yeah, the

1630
01:26:30,240 --> 01:26:33,200
Speaker 1: cops all that time, we're probably pretty good at finding

1631
01:26:33,320 --> 01:26:35,840
Speaker 1: hidden things. I think they would have found a secret

1632
01:26:35,920 --> 01:26:38,120
Speaker 1: passage even though so even though that this one makes

1633
01:26:38,120 --> 01:26:39,880
Speaker 1: the most sense to me, and maybe it was some

1634
01:26:40,120 --> 01:26:44,400
Speaker 1: super fantastically well concealed secret passage. It was so professionally

1635
01:26:44,439 --> 01:26:47,120
Speaker 1: done that pooled the cops but also like, why, well,

1636
01:26:47,640 --> 01:26:51,120
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure it was a renter and so he did. Yeah,

1637
01:26:51,120 --> 01:26:52,679
Speaker 1: that would make sense. He didn't have a huge amount

1638
01:26:52,680 --> 01:26:55,400
Speaker 1: of money to sink into creating some sort of secret passage,

1639
01:26:55,479 --> 01:26:56,680
Speaker 1: you know. That would have been a lot of work

1640
01:26:56,720 --> 01:27:01,920
Speaker 1: and expense to create a really perfect secret passage. Hey, well, okay,

1641
01:27:02,000 --> 01:27:04,360
Speaker 1: let's me want to another sory? Uh? This one is

1642
01:27:04,439 --> 01:27:06,880
Speaker 1: another one that I found on the webs. Really, it's

1643
01:27:06,960 --> 01:27:10,200
Speaker 1: not my theory. This theory is that the killer brought

1644
01:27:10,320 --> 01:27:13,880
Speaker 1: a little kid with him. This is so weird. It's

1645
01:27:13,880 --> 01:27:16,040
Speaker 1: a dumb theory. But the idea said, the killer breaks

1646
01:27:16,080 --> 01:27:19,639
Speaker 1: a little kid, shoots as a door and then walks

1647
01:27:19,720 --> 01:27:22,080
Speaker 1: out and and tell us a kid to lock the

1648
01:27:22,120 --> 01:27:24,439
Speaker 1: door from the inside and then climb up through the transom,

1649
01:27:25,200 --> 01:27:27,760
Speaker 1: you know. And and this is I mean, that's it's

1650
01:27:27,800 --> 01:27:30,639
Speaker 1: It's totally it would work. But why the hell would

1651
01:27:30,680 --> 01:27:35,639
Speaker 1: anybody do that? What's what's that Tom Hanks movie where

1652
01:27:35,760 --> 01:27:41,640
Speaker 1: it's a prohibition era movie Perdition Road And it is

1653
01:27:41,920 --> 01:27:47,120
Speaker 1: Tom Hanks who had nobody right as angry emails about

1654
01:27:47,160 --> 01:27:50,120
Speaker 1: the fact that I remember this plot of this movie wrong.

1655
01:27:51,160 --> 01:27:55,479
Speaker 1: But there was something about Hanks and his son and

1656
01:27:55,640 --> 01:27:57,760
Speaker 1: be involved in murder stuff and they were. They were

1657
01:27:57,840 --> 01:28:00,280
Speaker 1: running around the robbing banks and it was involve halving

1658
01:28:00,360 --> 01:28:03,240
Speaker 1: his son in it. And so you know, the the

1659
01:28:03,360 --> 01:28:07,519
Speaker 1: kid is like totally invested in this is what we're

1660
01:28:07,560 --> 01:28:13,640
Speaker 1: gonna do. So let's apply this Hollywood mystique of enamored

1661
01:28:13,960 --> 01:28:19,479
Speaker 1: child to parent figure to say, Dad did this. We

1662
01:28:19,600 --> 01:28:22,000
Speaker 1: shut the door. I climbed out the door, and we

1663
01:28:22,160 --> 01:28:24,519
Speaker 1: locked the whole place behind us, and we happened like

1664
01:28:25,240 --> 01:28:29,920
Speaker 1: that is very hollywood esque. That that is a story

1665
01:28:30,080 --> 01:28:32,840
Speaker 1: we have heard, and it doesn't answer the question of why.

1666
01:28:33,160 --> 01:28:35,920
Speaker 1: But no, but I also think you know, when you

1667
01:28:36,080 --> 01:28:39,080
Speaker 1: say he brought a child, well, it it's a crap

1668
01:28:39,240 --> 01:28:41,840
Speaker 1: theory because it or a crap answer, I should say,

1669
01:28:41,920 --> 01:28:45,160
Speaker 1: because it answers the question of how did this kid

1670
01:28:45,280 --> 01:28:50,519
Speaker 1: get here? But then it's just it's phenomenal in how

1671
01:28:50,680 --> 01:28:56,679
Speaker 1: it would happen. Well, yeah, and I hope you're talking

1672
01:28:56,680 --> 01:28:59,439
Speaker 1: about a pretty small little kid too. Yeah, yeah, they

1673
01:28:59,560 --> 01:29:05,680
Speaker 1: bring along. But you know what, weird people do some

1674
01:29:05,920 --> 01:29:12,320
Speaker 1: weird stuff and they bring their kids to terrible Yeah. Well,

1675
01:29:12,479 --> 01:29:16,439
Speaker 1: particularly if it was this kind of undocumented robbery, you know,

1676
01:29:17,040 --> 01:29:19,400
Speaker 1: it's it's like totally possible too, that like, we don't know.

1677
01:29:19,920 --> 01:29:22,320
Speaker 1: It could have been that this was a robbery of

1678
01:29:22,439 --> 01:29:26,240
Speaker 1: this undeclared Maybe maybe Isador was stealing diamonds out of

1679
01:29:26,320 --> 01:29:29,720
Speaker 1: people's pockets for all we know, right, I mean a

1680
01:29:29,920 --> 01:29:32,200
Speaker 1: time or even if it was just like change and

1681
01:29:32,439 --> 01:29:37,360
Speaker 1: there was some like hidden undeclared treasure in or you know,

1682
01:29:37,439 --> 01:29:39,160
Speaker 1: it could have been this vindictive that maybe he did

1683
01:29:39,240 --> 01:29:42,000
Speaker 1: steal a diamond necklace from some client and he said

1684
01:29:42,040 --> 01:29:46,200
Speaker 1: I'm talking about and then the husband and kid came in,

1685
01:29:46,880 --> 01:29:50,280
Speaker 1: shot him, took the diamond necklace back. The kid, you know,

1686
01:29:50,360 --> 01:29:52,920
Speaker 1: crawls out. The dad says, okay, we did this for mommy.

1687
01:29:53,360 --> 01:29:55,920
Speaker 1: It was totally you know, we're in the right. I'm

1688
01:29:55,960 --> 01:29:57,920
Speaker 1: so sorry that you had to see that. Keep your

1689
01:29:57,960 --> 01:30:01,759
Speaker 1: mouth shut about it and still keeping it still. I'm sorry.

1690
01:30:01,880 --> 01:30:04,680
Speaker 1: It's in that day and age. It's shut your trap, kid,

1691
01:30:04,800 --> 01:30:08,839
Speaker 1: this is what you do for the family. But whatever happens,

1692
01:30:08,920 --> 01:30:10,960
Speaker 1: I mean, it is possible that there was this sort

1693
01:30:11,000 --> 01:30:15,000
Speaker 1: of well integrated theory. Yeah, you know, I think that

1694
01:30:16,400 --> 01:30:18,800
Speaker 1: I did think it is possibly he did have something

1695
01:30:18,960 --> 01:30:21,400
Speaker 1: valuable in there that was taken. But it's still it's

1696
01:30:21,400 --> 01:30:24,120
Speaker 1: still it still makes no sense to me. To bring

1697
01:30:24,200 --> 01:30:25,920
Speaker 1: a kid and I have to kid. No, no, no,

1698
01:30:26,160 --> 01:30:30,560
Speaker 1: I'm not. It makes utterly no sense. It's yeah, it

1699
01:30:30,600 --> 01:30:32,760
Speaker 1: really is. But but it was a theory that's out there,

1700
01:30:32,840 --> 01:30:34,240
Speaker 1: so you know, I gotta I gotta put them all

1701
01:30:34,280 --> 01:30:36,000
Speaker 1: out there for you guys. All right, Joe, So let

1702
01:30:36,040 --> 01:30:38,160
Speaker 1: me ask you this. I'm gonna try and speed this up.

1703
01:30:38,680 --> 01:30:43,360
Speaker 1: You have two or three very very minor theories here.

1704
01:30:43,479 --> 01:30:45,720
Speaker 1: Can you just give us the headlines of each one? Well,

1705
01:30:46,040 --> 01:30:48,120
Speaker 1: because there's not a whole lot of discussion for him

1706
01:30:48,160 --> 01:30:51,080
Speaker 1: if I'm unless I'm wrong, No, there's not, there's Uh.

1707
01:30:51,360 --> 01:30:53,320
Speaker 1: This is one that the police was saying, Well, all

1708
01:30:53,400 --> 01:30:55,680
Speaker 1: we configure is this, which is that the killer was

1709
01:30:55,800 --> 01:30:58,920
Speaker 1: really small and skinny and acrobatic and just shinting out

1710
01:30:58,920 --> 01:31:02,679
Speaker 1: through the transom himself off after committed the murder, which

1711
01:31:02,720 --> 01:31:05,240
Speaker 1: is possible. Again, you know, the question again is why.

1712
01:31:05,439 --> 01:31:08,200
Speaker 1: But also apparently we're not talking we're talking about somebody's

1713
01:31:08,200 --> 01:31:11,519
Speaker 1: super super skinny, and and that it's still the question

1714
01:31:11,600 --> 01:31:14,000
Speaker 1: still is why you do it? I feel like I

1715
01:31:14,040 --> 01:31:17,280
Speaker 1: want to address this why for two seconds. The thing

1716
01:31:17,360 --> 01:31:21,920
Speaker 1: that I want to address with the why is discovery. Discovery, Yeah,

1717
01:31:22,320 --> 01:31:24,960
Speaker 1: and that like we've talked about this before. So you

1718
01:31:25,000 --> 01:31:27,040
Speaker 1: want to leave the door locked to just delay the body.

1719
01:31:27,680 --> 01:31:30,559
Speaker 1: You just assumed that this kind of reclusive, paranoid human

1720
01:31:31,200 --> 01:31:33,160
Speaker 1: has just locked himself in his apartment for a couple

1721
01:31:33,200 --> 01:31:37,679
Speaker 1: of days, right, And maybe it's the weekend, Maybe it's

1722
01:31:38,080 --> 01:31:40,120
Speaker 1: he knows there's not going to be clients coming in.

1723
01:31:40,600 --> 01:31:46,080
Speaker 1: Whatever it is that assumedly delays discovery of this murder,

1724
01:31:46,280 --> 01:31:50,000
Speaker 1: of this crime to give you even more time to escape.

1725
01:31:50,200 --> 01:31:52,640
Speaker 1: Clearly that did not work in this case, but I

1726
01:31:52,840 --> 01:31:55,640
Speaker 1: feel like that could be a reason to do that

1727
01:31:55,800 --> 01:31:57,960
Speaker 1: locked door because if the door is locked and barred,

1728
01:31:58,200 --> 01:32:02,000
Speaker 1: a cop comes and knocks it's locked, they can maybe

1729
01:32:02,080 --> 01:32:04,360
Speaker 1: they can even see if there is an actual bar

1730
01:32:04,479 --> 01:32:07,920
Speaker 1: in its glass door whatever, they can see that it's locked.

1731
01:32:08,080 --> 01:32:10,679
Speaker 1: It delays that, you know, they just assume the guy's

1732
01:32:10,720 --> 01:32:14,679
Speaker 1: asleep inside his own house. The keyhole is is blocked

1733
01:32:14,720 --> 01:32:17,400
Speaker 1: because the key is locked from the inside. What I

1734
01:32:17,479 --> 01:32:21,800
Speaker 1: mean if not, well, yeah, there's still there's still I'm

1735
01:32:21,800 --> 01:32:23,960
Speaker 1: gonna give standard because I just don't know at this

1736
01:32:24,080 --> 01:32:26,720
Speaker 1: pointed I don't know either. I just would add that

1737
01:32:26,800 --> 01:32:30,040
Speaker 1: to the year, so they're not going to look in

1738
01:32:30,040 --> 01:32:31,960
Speaker 1: and see some guy laying on the floor, they've heard

1739
01:32:32,000 --> 01:32:34,080
Speaker 1: sounds of a scuple and just say, oh, he's just sleeping.

1740
01:32:34,120 --> 01:32:36,360
Speaker 1: They're gonna say he died, he had a heart attack,

1741
01:32:37,000 --> 01:32:40,360
Speaker 1: or chilled himself. There's all sorts of possible yeah, but

1742
01:32:40,720 --> 01:32:42,800
Speaker 1: all sorts of possibilities that would make them take, well,

1743
01:32:42,840 --> 01:32:44,240
Speaker 1: we had to kick the door in and check this.

1744
01:32:44,439 --> 01:32:47,360
Speaker 1: But if the lock has the key in it, yeah,

1745
01:32:47,640 --> 01:32:49,759
Speaker 1: they're going to assume he locked it from the inside.

1746
01:32:49,960 --> 01:32:52,680
Speaker 1: He's in there, and then and then well, yeah, but

1747
01:32:52,960 --> 01:32:54,640
Speaker 1: if he locked it from the inside and then had

1748
01:32:54,640 --> 01:32:56,400
Speaker 1: a heart attack, he locked it from the inside and

1749
01:32:56,439 --> 01:32:58,639
Speaker 1: then shot himself, you know, and so you know, I mean,

1750
01:32:59,080 --> 01:33:02,479
Speaker 1: so they kind of do you I mean, even if

1751
01:33:02,760 --> 01:33:05,360
Speaker 1: they do if somebody heard the scuffle. But the assumption

1752
01:33:05,479 --> 01:33:08,040
Speaker 1: here is that if this person thinks they're so like

1753
01:33:08,240 --> 01:33:11,439
Speaker 1: nimble and amazing, they've created this lock door situation, nobody

1754
01:33:11,600 --> 01:33:13,800
Speaker 1: heard anything, and then like you get a couple of

1755
01:33:13,840 --> 01:33:18,320
Speaker 1: days distance and then question because I hadn't thought about

1756
01:33:18,400 --> 01:33:21,120
Speaker 1: this before, and maybe this is where you're going with this, Devin,

1757
01:33:21,960 --> 01:33:28,240
Speaker 1: is My long standing presumption was that the door to

1758
01:33:28,560 --> 01:33:32,240
Speaker 1: is it or Fink's apartment or business wherever it was,

1759
01:33:32,479 --> 01:33:36,760
Speaker 1: who was found was a solid wooden door. Are you

1760
01:33:37,000 --> 01:33:40,000
Speaker 1: saying that. No, a matter of fact, it was a

1761
01:33:40,240 --> 01:33:43,360
Speaker 1: door that had a large glass panel in it. I

1762
01:33:43,400 --> 01:33:49,000
Speaker 1: don't know the apartments, but for his business. And I'm

1763
01:33:49,080 --> 01:33:52,439
Speaker 1: asking because again we don't know how it was set up,

1764
01:33:52,479 --> 01:33:55,599
Speaker 1: and maybe the business side had a large plate glass

1765
01:33:55,640 --> 01:34:00,920
Speaker 1: window which would afford the view that then he is

1766
01:34:00,960 --> 01:34:04,200
Speaker 1: talking about where they're saying, oh, look he's sleeping it off.

1767
01:34:06,560 --> 01:34:09,679
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it's like a clear panel like Joe's

1768
01:34:09,720 --> 01:34:12,000
Speaker 1: door where you can just look in and it's like,

1769
01:34:12,080 --> 01:34:14,519
Speaker 1: but nobody come here and try and rob Joe because

1770
01:34:14,960 --> 01:34:16,479
Speaker 1: you can see in his door, but he's got lots

1771
01:34:16,520 --> 01:34:19,200
Speaker 1: of guns. The kind of door I'm thinking of is like, uh,

1772
01:34:19,760 --> 01:34:24,920
Speaker 1: have you watched Jessica Jones frosted? It's frosted right in

1773
01:34:25,160 --> 01:34:27,920
Speaker 1: New York every once in a while, or old in times,

1774
01:34:28,080 --> 01:34:31,960
Speaker 1: like older buildings sometimes they had frosted one like the

1775
01:34:32,080 --> 01:34:36,240
Speaker 1: top handle was frosted. But even more than that, it

1776
01:34:36,439 --> 01:34:40,479
Speaker 1: wasn't that that whole mention wasn't necessarily that like you

1777
01:34:40,560 --> 01:34:42,040
Speaker 1: can see a body and there. It was more than like,

1778
01:34:42,120 --> 01:34:44,960
Speaker 1: oh you can see the steel bar, it's across it,

1779
01:34:45,880 --> 01:34:50,200
Speaker 1: that's across it, and that maybe it was locked it's not. Again,

1780
01:34:50,760 --> 01:34:53,479
Speaker 1: that was not the important point for me. The important

1781
01:34:53,520 --> 01:34:58,559
Speaker 1: point for me was that but that it would perhaps

1782
01:34:58,640 --> 01:35:01,960
Speaker 1: be that if some body went to all this trouble,

1783
01:35:02,120 --> 01:35:04,719
Speaker 1: it would be to buy themselves some time to continue

1784
01:35:04,720 --> 01:35:09,240
Speaker 1: to give them an albi or whatever. Maybe that's the

1785
01:35:09,400 --> 01:35:11,960
Speaker 1: only reason I can ever get behind these kind of

1786
01:35:12,040 --> 01:35:16,519
Speaker 1: locked door mysteries, right, is that somebody had a reason

1787
01:35:16,640 --> 01:35:19,000
Speaker 1: that they wanted to make sure that the body wasn't

1788
01:35:19,040 --> 01:35:22,680
Speaker 1: found for a while. Yeah, that's other than that, or

1789
01:35:22,920 --> 01:35:25,559
Speaker 1: like I said, the it might just be they want

1790
01:35:25,600 --> 01:35:27,240
Speaker 1: to just have a little fun with the whole thing,

1791
01:35:27,320 --> 01:35:31,080
Speaker 1: create this big and I enjoy watching reading the papers

1792
01:35:31,120 --> 01:35:33,360
Speaker 1: and reading out you know, everybody's all, you know, like

1793
01:35:33,520 --> 01:35:36,880
Speaker 1: scratching their heads over this. Well, there's another possibility, was

1794
01:35:37,360 --> 01:35:40,559
Speaker 1: and it's maybe if if assuming the windows were nailed

1795
01:35:40,640 --> 01:35:42,160
Speaker 1: shut and the way that I was talking about, by

1796
01:35:42,280 --> 01:35:46,760
Speaker 1: drilling a hole, typically something that's removable, yeah, to removable

1797
01:35:46,880 --> 01:35:51,280
Speaker 1: long nail then and basically removable peg yeah, or a

1798
01:35:51,360 --> 01:35:54,320
Speaker 1: peg or nail. But you know, I mostly see people

1799
01:35:54,360 --> 01:35:55,960
Speaker 1: do it with nails, but you know, you could do

1800
01:35:56,000 --> 01:35:59,200
Speaker 1: a peg or whatever, and typically you don't drive the

1801
01:35:59,240 --> 01:36:01,320
Speaker 1: whole horse bottle you drill it from the inside, you

1802
01:36:01,400 --> 01:36:05,479
Speaker 1: droll it down angle an angle so that lifting the

1803
01:36:05,560 --> 01:36:08,800
Speaker 1: window up locks it in, so that no matter how

1804
01:36:08,880 --> 01:36:13,040
Speaker 1: much you shake Jimmy back and forth, you can't pop

1805
01:36:13,160 --> 01:36:18,080
Speaker 1: it out. Gravity is gonna keep pulling it back into place. Yeah, exactly, because, yeah,

1806
01:36:18,080 --> 01:36:20,080
Speaker 1: if you have a slide quietly the other way and

1807
01:36:20,160 --> 01:36:22,000
Speaker 1: somebody just shakes the window for a little while, it'll

1808
01:36:22,040 --> 01:36:24,000
Speaker 1: just vibrate, but right out of that. Yeah. Yeah, that's

1809
01:36:24,000 --> 01:36:25,680
Speaker 1: the reason you know we have in my house. I

1810
01:36:25,720 --> 01:36:28,719
Speaker 1: always call him Jimmy bars, is that they're the bars

1811
01:36:28,800 --> 01:36:32,840
Speaker 1: that lay horizontally in my window so that when I

1812
01:36:33,000 --> 01:36:36,679
Speaker 1: crack my window, it's still flat, and even if somebody

1813
01:36:37,080 --> 01:36:40,800
Speaker 1: opens and slams it back and forth, it won't pop out.

1814
01:36:42,160 --> 01:36:44,160
Speaker 1: You know, if you are foolish enough to open it

1815
01:36:44,240 --> 01:36:46,479
Speaker 1: far enough and put your bar to forty five degree

1816
01:36:46,560 --> 01:36:50,280
Speaker 1: angle or whatever the window afford you, somebody can grab

1817
01:36:50,400 --> 01:36:53,120
Speaker 1: the window and start wailing it back and forth and

1818
01:36:53,280 --> 01:36:56,559
Speaker 1: knock it out. So yeah, it's it's it's a it's

1819
01:36:56,600 --> 01:37:00,639
Speaker 1: a method of ensuring that it does not come out

1820
01:37:00,720 --> 01:37:04,160
Speaker 1: of place. Yeah, And so if if somebody to say, say,

1821
01:37:04,200 --> 01:37:06,439
Speaker 1: if his door had somebody had been let in the

1822
01:37:06,520 --> 01:37:09,439
Speaker 1: front door, and it killed this door. Decided to exit

1823
01:37:09,520 --> 01:37:11,960
Speaker 1: by the window. Maybe maybe he heard the neighbor outside

1824
01:37:12,040 --> 01:37:14,280
Speaker 1: the yelling one you know, I'm along for the police,

1825
01:37:14,600 --> 01:37:16,559
Speaker 1: you know, And so he decides to pull you out

1826
01:37:16,640 --> 01:37:19,360
Speaker 1: the window. What's that? How did that go? What's that?

1827
01:37:20,320 --> 01:37:24,880
Speaker 1: He said? For the police. But I really wanted him

1828
01:37:24,920 --> 01:37:28,720
Speaker 1: to get that, wouldn't do it? Yeah, And so as

1829
01:37:28,760 --> 01:37:31,080
Speaker 1: he decides to exit, buy it through the window. So

1830
01:37:31,240 --> 01:37:33,439
Speaker 1: he pulls the nail out and pulls it out just

1831
01:37:33,560 --> 01:37:36,559
Speaker 1: partially and slides the window up, goes out and slides

1832
01:37:36,600 --> 01:37:42,280
Speaker 1: the window down. And then if he if he's a

1833
01:37:42,680 --> 01:37:45,000
Speaker 1: clever burglar type, he might even act. It could be

1834
01:37:45,080 --> 01:37:47,880
Speaker 1: the nail would just accidentally sort of slide into place

1835
01:37:47,920 --> 01:37:52,120
Speaker 1: and locked the window just all unintentionally. It could be too,

1836
01:37:52,200 --> 01:37:54,000
Speaker 1: if he's a clever guy, he might actually pull a

1837
01:37:54,080 --> 01:37:56,960
Speaker 1: shut then vibrated a little bit. Watch that nail from

1838
01:37:56,960 --> 01:37:58,479
Speaker 1: the other side of the glass and see the nail

1839
01:37:58,560 --> 01:38:01,360
Speaker 1: sort of going down as he vibracal window. I had

1840
01:38:01,640 --> 01:38:05,080
Speaker 1: never considered it that way. And that is that is

1841
01:38:05,760 --> 01:38:11,920
Speaker 1: ingenious to use a lock against the person who set

1842
01:38:11,960 --> 01:38:14,320
Speaker 1: it up. I mean it's yeah, So that that would

1843
01:38:14,320 --> 01:38:18,240
Speaker 1: assume that is the door. I had left somebody inside

1844
01:38:18,360 --> 01:38:20,840
Speaker 1: and then bolted the door after and they went out

1845
01:38:20,880 --> 01:38:24,280
Speaker 1: through another which would be the window. Yeah, that's contanious.

1846
01:38:24,640 --> 01:38:27,400
Speaker 1: We could have had it open with the nails sitting

1847
01:38:27,520 --> 01:38:31,519
Speaker 1: in the slots above where they were there. Locking point

1848
01:38:31,800 --> 01:38:34,320
Speaker 1: was to get fresh air, and whoever went out the

1849
01:38:34,360 --> 01:38:40,719
Speaker 1: window slammed it shut, which then pushes the nails fall

1850
01:38:40,840 --> 01:38:44,400
Speaker 1: into place. Especially if he was using a gas iron,

1851
01:38:45,080 --> 01:38:50,559
Speaker 1: you would walk for the carbon monoxide. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1852
01:38:50,600 --> 01:38:53,800
Speaker 1: And so he could have and I again, this is

1853
01:38:53,880 --> 01:38:56,360
Speaker 1: the big assumption here, is that he hadn't powdered nails

1854
01:38:56,439 --> 01:38:59,519
Speaker 1: under the window permanently seen the fullow bend him over. Yeah,

1855
01:38:59,840 --> 01:39:02,040
Speaker 1: I'm assuming that he actually because you don't want to

1856
01:39:02,080 --> 01:39:04,559
Speaker 1: open your windows occasionally. Yeah, I was something he just had,

1857
01:39:04,760 --> 01:39:09,200
Speaker 1: especially you have a laundry. Yeah hell yeah yeah, not

1858
01:39:09,960 --> 01:39:15,800
Speaker 1: by far the best theory. It's not he committed suicide,

1859
01:39:15,960 --> 01:39:19,439
Speaker 1: but the rats just carried the gunaway. That's another theory, Okay,

1860
01:39:19,520 --> 01:39:25,400
Speaker 1: I like the other one. Yeah, thinking rats the pizza

1861
01:39:25,920 --> 01:39:30,719
Speaker 1: the rat man. Yeah, rat truth way is a terrible

1862
01:39:30,840 --> 01:39:33,960
Speaker 1: theory for this one. Yeah. So I'm thinking it's like

1863
01:39:34,040 --> 01:39:36,880
Speaker 1: that window one out the window and and just you know. Yeah,

1864
01:39:38,240 --> 01:39:42,080
Speaker 1: he's official for once you change my mind. Alight that one?

1865
01:39:42,160 --> 01:39:44,759
Speaker 1: Then Okay, it's good. Alright, Well I guess that wraps

1866
01:39:44,800 --> 01:39:47,439
Speaker 1: it all up then except for all the housekeeping. Yeah,

1867
01:39:47,720 --> 01:39:49,439
Speaker 1: if you've got a theory, you probably want to send

1868
01:39:49,560 --> 01:39:52,160
Speaker 1: us an email. Yeah, we've got one of those things.

1869
01:39:52,280 --> 01:39:56,720
Speaker 1: It's Thinking Sideways podcast at gmail dot com. We also

1870
01:39:56,800 --> 01:40:01,200
Speaker 1: have a website which is Thinking Sideways Podcast. Come and

1871
01:40:01,640 --> 01:40:03,320
Speaker 1: you can get our You can get our stuff there.

1872
01:40:03,320 --> 01:40:05,519
Speaker 1: You can listen to the episodes. You can also buy

1873
01:40:05,680 --> 01:40:08,560
Speaker 1: merch over on the right hand side. Uh, and you

1874
01:40:08,680 --> 01:40:11,280
Speaker 1: can access our stuff like we're on Stitcher Premium. You

1875
01:40:11,360 --> 01:40:15,160
Speaker 1: can get the Stitcher Premium through our website and all

1876
01:40:15,240 --> 01:40:17,120
Speaker 1: kinds of other fun stuff. What else you can else?

1877
01:40:17,200 --> 01:40:18,960
Speaker 1: Get the Instagram. We're on Instagram and you can get

1878
01:40:19,000 --> 01:40:21,479
Speaker 1: to that to our website too, right, don't well yeah,

1879
01:40:21,520 --> 01:40:23,840
Speaker 1: and don't forget to tell people how to get the

1880
01:40:23,920 --> 01:40:27,639
Speaker 1: good deals on Stitcher premium though, Well it's important. Oh yeah,

1881
01:40:27,760 --> 01:40:30,800
Speaker 1: speaking of speaking of which, Yeah, that Stitcher premium. If

1882
01:40:30,840 --> 01:40:32,920
Speaker 1: you want to get the really good deal, you got

1883
01:40:33,000 --> 01:40:36,759
Speaker 1: to stitcher dot com slash Thinking Sideways used code sideways

1884
01:40:36,800 --> 01:40:38,960
Speaker 1: and you will get a discount it's like a three

1885
01:40:39,040 --> 01:40:43,160
Speaker 1: month I think, sign up for a year. Uh. And

1886
01:40:43,240 --> 01:40:46,799
Speaker 1: don't forget what Stitcher premium you do get at free content.

1887
01:40:47,000 --> 01:40:49,240
Speaker 1: You get the episode four days early. You get bonus

1888
01:40:49,360 --> 01:40:52,760
Speaker 1: content also once once a month. Yeah. So so it's

1889
01:40:52,800 --> 01:40:57,240
Speaker 1: a it's a pretty swell deal. So schmium it's swell. Yeah.

1890
01:40:57,439 --> 01:40:59,200
Speaker 1: And there's other places if you don't want to pay,

1891
01:40:59,240 --> 01:41:01,920
Speaker 1: there's lots of that. You got iTunes and and other

1892
01:41:02,040 --> 01:41:07,360
Speaker 1: streaming websites Googlegal Play, Stitcher and a Stitcher regular uh uh.

1893
01:41:07,400 --> 01:41:09,360
Speaker 1: And of course if you do that, subscribe, give us

1894
01:41:09,400 --> 01:41:11,920
Speaker 1: a rating and a review, preferably good rating, good review.

1895
01:41:12,000 --> 01:41:15,160
Speaker 1: We like that. We're also social media. We're on Facebook

1896
01:41:15,200 --> 01:41:17,240
Speaker 1: where we have a group of a page. So you

1897
01:41:17,280 --> 01:41:19,400
Speaker 1: want to join the group, like the page, and when

1898
01:41:19,439 --> 01:41:21,360
Speaker 1: you join the group, you've got to answer two questions.

1899
01:41:21,840 --> 01:41:31,479
Speaker 1: What is your favorite color and what a swallow? You could, honestly,

1900
01:41:31,680 --> 01:41:34,240
Speaker 1: you could answer those two questions and ignore, and our

1901
01:41:34,280 --> 01:41:36,679
Speaker 1: mods would probably still a prove you because you answered

1902
01:41:36,680 --> 01:41:40,240
Speaker 1: two questions. Are you are you are you knocking the

1903
01:41:40,360 --> 01:41:43,160
Speaker 1: quality of our moderators, which I don't agree with, or

1904
01:41:43,280 --> 01:41:47,599
Speaker 1: are you saying the creativity of giving a completely different answer? Might.

1905
01:41:47,680 --> 01:41:49,439
Speaker 1: Actually I'm saying, all you have to do is prove

1906
01:41:49,520 --> 01:41:53,000
Speaker 1: that you're a human who wasn't show but if you

1907
01:41:53,680 --> 01:41:56,640
Speaker 1: but we love you and you do great work, and

1908
01:41:56,720 --> 01:42:00,960
Speaker 1: I don't want to. Mostly all I want is they

1909
01:42:01,040 --> 01:42:05,120
Speaker 1: send me pictures every time somebody else every time I'm

1910
01:42:05,160 --> 01:42:08,880
Speaker 1: still wrong, and um I love seeing those. So answer

1911
01:42:08,960 --> 01:42:12,320
Speaker 1: however you want. But realistically the answers are yes and

1912
01:42:12,760 --> 01:42:15,519
Speaker 1: thursdays or weekly, whichever you prefer. Or if you but

1913
01:42:15,640 --> 01:42:18,479
Speaker 1: if you respond to the second question with European or

1914
01:42:18,560 --> 01:42:22,680
Speaker 1: African question mark, yeah, you'll still get I will let

1915
01:42:22,760 --> 01:42:25,479
Speaker 1: them know right now. I actually think that is an

1916
01:42:25,560 --> 01:42:30,160
Speaker 1: automatic acceptance and we need to code that into Facebook. Yeah,

1917
01:42:30,720 --> 01:42:34,280
Speaker 1: so remember that then. Oh, back to beyond the Facebook

1918
01:42:34,320 --> 01:42:37,000
Speaker 1: group in the page, there's also Twitter, where we are

1919
01:42:37,160 --> 01:42:40,800
Speaker 1: thinking sideways without the lots of lots of cool stuff

1920
01:42:40,800 --> 01:42:45,680
Speaker 1: going on there. We have Subreddit thinking sideways on Reddit. Uh.

1921
01:42:45,760 --> 01:42:48,080
Speaker 1: And of course, as I said already, we're on Instagram

1922
01:42:48,479 --> 01:42:52,600
Speaker 1: where we are thinking sideways podcast. Uh. And that's about it,

1923
01:42:52,760 --> 01:42:55,880
Speaker 1: I guess, So alright, So sure, so you guys, I

1924
01:42:55,960 --> 01:42:59,439
Speaker 1: guess we will see you all next week. Until then,

1925
01:43:00,120 --> 01:43:03,280
Speaker 1: good puns for me, you guys. No, I'm still so

1926
01:43:03,600 --> 01:43:06,719
Speaker 1: freaking conflicted about this one. Yeah, it bugs the crap

1927
01:43:06,760 --> 01:43:09,200
Speaker 1: out of me, and I'm now upset that you've you've

1928
01:43:09,320 --> 01:43:10,880
Speaker 1: chosen it. I was very happy at the beginning, but

1929
01:43:10,920 --> 01:43:12,960
Speaker 1: now I'm upset. We finally got it out of the way,

1930
01:43:13,360 --> 01:43:14,800
Speaker 1: al right, guys, next week. Bye,