1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:12,239 Speaker 1: M from grandmothers who whispered in their baby girl in 2 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:16,920 Speaker 1: two fathers on dimly lit street corners, instructing young soldiers 3 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:20,959 Speaker 1: to always keep their eyes open. You be queen, you 4 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:24,279 Speaker 1: were fired. You will pass through centuries on the hands 5 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 1: of your daughters. They called you wisdom. Proverbs on the 6 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 1: backs of diamond eyed school children who growing into hymnals 7 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:37,200 Speaker 1: recited by amethyst holding urban philosophers who recited neighborhood commandments 8 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:40,680 Speaker 1: out of the windows of restored ALCHEMYO cherios to keep 9 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: the warmth of their blood. Be wise, be smart, being black, 10 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 1: Opal Brown courts, bloodstone and prayer. Be every form of 11 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 1: jim se King told, scribe, scribe, told son, son, told wife, 12 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:00,080 Speaker 1: wife told her daughter, and daughter told the ant. This 13 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 1: is at the instances told me that you would come wisdom. 14 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 1: Thus they said you would come rocking, rocking him. Welcome 15 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 1: to The Dropping Gym's podcast. I'm Debbie Brown. This is 16 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:19,839 Speaker 1: our soft place to land. This is where we explore 17 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:25,399 Speaker 1: higher consciousness but also make it so deeply uniquely applicable 18 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 1: um to our day to day lives and challenges. So 19 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 1: this show is going to be so good. They all are, 20 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:37,480 Speaker 1: But I mean today's show I have a just exceptionally brilliant, 21 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:41,400 Speaker 1: amazing woman, Dr Rita Walker is joining the show today, 22 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:43,400 Speaker 1: So we're gonna get into that in just a second. 23 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 1: We're really going to be exploring, um, some of the 24 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 1: deeper layers of our psychology, especially as it relates two 25 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 1: experiences of racism to experiences of structural oppression. Um. But 26 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 1: before we get into this show, which is gonna be 27 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 1: a little equal parts juicy and maybe deep at the 28 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 1: same time, I want to start every show with pulling 29 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 1: a card from my Karma Bliss affirmation deck. Uh. These 30 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 1: are all the affirmations that are found in my book, 31 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 1: Crystal Bliss. But I have this beautiful deck that we 32 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:17,519 Speaker 1: created that is going to be back on sale very soon. 33 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 1: They've been selling out pretty fast, but we're working on 34 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 1: that reorder. Stuck, I'm gonna draw a card from there, 35 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:26,800 Speaker 1: read the affirmation and really kind of set the intention. 36 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:29,679 Speaker 1: See where this see where this episode is going to 37 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 1: take us. So let's see do a little shuffle, See 38 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:52,079 Speaker 1: what pops here? We go? Oh nice, Okay, so the 39 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 1: affirmation for this episode and just jump and close your 40 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:58,399 Speaker 1: eyes for a second and try it on. See where 41 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:02,079 Speaker 1: it lands, where it fits. What might come up when 42 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 1: you hear these words. But if you're able, and if 43 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 1: it's safe, just take a second to gently close your eyes. 44 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:12,120 Speaker 1: But this feels like a fit, affirm and repeat this 45 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 1: statement for yourself. I am an honest and thoughtful communicator. 46 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 1: I am in honest and thoughtful communicator. Take a deep 47 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 1: breath in through your nose. Hold it at the top 48 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 1: for a moment, release through your nose. I am an 49 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: honest and thoughtful communicator. And I'll add to the tail 50 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 1: into that with myself and with others. All right, if 51 00:03:56,840 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 1: your eyes were closed, go ahead and gently open them. 52 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: Rejoin us in our beautiful podcast space. Okay, so let's 53 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 1: see where that card, that intention, that affirmation takes us 54 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 1: through this show. I'll have some more thoughts at the 55 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 1: end along with the little soul work at the end 56 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 1: of this episode, so we'll get into that too. And 57 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 1: if you haven't yet, um, I would love if you 58 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 1: took just a brief moment. It takes about thirty to 59 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 1: sixty seconds, depending on what you say, to rate and 60 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 1: review this podcast, And if you feel so called, give 61 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: me that five star. Share any words that feel natural 62 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: and relevant to you about your experience listening, I would 63 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 1: be very grateful alright today's episode. Dr Rita Walker. Dr 64 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:46,600 Speaker 1: Rita Walker is a clinical psychologist, an award winning professor, 65 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:50,600 Speaker 1: and a leading scholar who has published more than sixty 66 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 1: scientific papers on African American mental health, suicide risk, and 67 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 1: emotional resilience to Walker's impact has expanded beyond academia, and 68 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 1: she has quickly become a fan favorite. With the release 69 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 1: of her first book, The Unapologetic Guide to Black Mental Health, 70 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 1: Dr Walker debunk Smith's about mental health builds the case 71 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:19,719 Speaker 1: for psychological fortitude and delivers practical advice for use in 72 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:23,679 Speaker 1: everyday life. Her charismatic vision and practical approach to life's 73 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 1: challenges has led to numerous appearances on Good Morning America, 74 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 1: The Breakfast Club, and MPR, among others. Major publications such 75 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 1: as The Washington Post, The Los Angeles Times, and The 76 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:40,839 Speaker 1: Houston Chronicle often cite her expertise. Dr Walker's eclectic mix 77 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 1: of experiences positions her well to achieve her ultimate goal 78 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 1: of bringing culturally informed psychological fortitude to both professional and 79 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 1: lay audiences. We are fortunate to have with us today 80 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 1: Dr Rita Walker, who is a University of Houston professor, 81 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 1: a psychologist and a leading expert in African American mental health. 82 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 1: She is the author of the highly acclaimed new book, 83 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:08,480 Speaker 1: The Unapologetic Guide to Black Mental Health, and in this book, 84 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 1: Dr Walker offers insight to the mental health crisis is 85 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 1: that are happening in the black community, along with tools 86 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 1: and strategies for practicing emotional wellness. Dr Walker hails from 87 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 1: Georgia and now claims h Down Houston, Texas as her home. 88 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:27,479 Speaker 1: And we have such a beautiful coming to being story 89 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:33,360 Speaker 1: that that has been really lovely Um exploring together and big, big, 90 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: big fan of the book. So, without further ado, welcome 91 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:43,360 Speaker 1: to the show, Dr Rita Walker. So welcome to the show, 92 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:47,479 Speaker 1: Dr Rita Walker. Hi Devi, it is wonderful to be 93 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 1: here with you. It is we have been waiting for 94 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:53,040 Speaker 1: this moment, or at least I've been waiting for this 95 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 1: moment for a while. I'm so excited Um to finally 96 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: have you on the show. You know, it was the 97 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 1: way that we connected was so interesting. It was so 98 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 1: like I feel like the pandemic really gifted me Um 99 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 1: some beautiful relationships, especially with people in other states, and 100 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 1: you were one of those beautiful pandemic gems for me, um, 101 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 1: and I think how did we first connect? It was 102 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 1: it must have been the universe. Let me let me 103 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 1: first say that, Debbie, because it was kind of a 104 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 1: cold email that I sent you from based on another 105 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: connection that I had because I was looking for individuals 106 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 1: to endorse my book and you were someone that she 107 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 1: had in her rolodex and she said, you know, I 108 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 1: think Debbie Brown could be interested in something like this. 109 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: So you didn't know me from anybody, but I emailed 110 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 1: you and you were so gracious, which I just really 111 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 1: appreciate to this day. Uh. And so that's how it 112 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 1: all started. Wow started? Yeah, Okay, I remember, like, yeah, 113 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 1: I remember you send me an email on you and 114 00:07:57,840 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 1: you were sharing about your book that was coming out, 115 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: and it was so it for me. It felt so 116 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 1: divinely aligned because I was specifically in real thought and 117 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 1: expiration with myself around understanding especially complex post traumatic stress, 118 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 1: and I was like, where is the information around this? 119 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 1: And then I get an email from you about your book, 120 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 1: which is an incredible book that I hope everyone goes 121 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 1: out to get, called The Unapologetic Guide to Black Mental Health, 122 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 1: And we're going to explore so much about that soon, 123 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 1: and I remember you send me an email like, you know, 124 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 1: would you read the book? And I was like, oh 125 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 1: my god, yes, matter of fact, can you send me 126 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 1: two copies? I was like, I need to send a 127 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 1: copy to my brother, um, and then you sent me books. 128 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 1: I sent one off to him, and UM, yeah, it 129 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 1: has been amazing. It's really because of that that the 130 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:51,560 Speaker 1: book has had as much visibility as it's had to be. 131 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 1: I couldn't have imagined, um, the lives that have been touched. 132 00:08:56,559 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 1: And it really it started with you, Debbie. It really 133 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:01,760 Speaker 1: didn't to what a true honor for me. And then 134 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:04,560 Speaker 1: we finally had the chance um to connect in person 135 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:06,800 Speaker 1: and New York last year we were both a part 136 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 1: of the Mental Wealth Alliance. And the brother that I 137 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:12,920 Speaker 1: mentioned is Charlemagne. Let me first give full honor and 138 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 1: respect to that amazing being Leonard and he had an 139 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:18,680 Speaker 1: incredible event, and then you and I were both speakers 140 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 1: at it, so we met in person at the same time, 141 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 1: and yeah, it was so wonderful to be with you. 142 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 1: Your work is so so so important and as I 143 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:30,079 Speaker 1: shared on the top of the show, you know, it's 144 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:33,560 Speaker 1: just like the divine alignment, and I feel like you 145 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 1: writing your book, you releasing your book when it did. 146 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 1: I know that that book, especially coming out towards you know, 147 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:45,200 Speaker 1: the beginning of the pandemic. I know that that this 148 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 1: book probably saved countless lives, you know, I know that 149 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:53,199 Speaker 1: this book probably was really the piece that got people 150 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 1: into acceptance with themselves or starting their journey UM. And 151 00:09:57,040 --> 00:09:59,320 Speaker 1: it's just it's just such a powerful body of work. 152 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 1: And I'd love to I'd love to dive right in 153 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:04,200 Speaker 1: with you because you know, you you're a professor at 154 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:07,840 Speaker 1: the University of Houston. You teach on some really challenging 155 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 1: UM psychology there, you know, specifically you teach diversity and 156 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: clinical psychology seminar and Black psychology theories and personality and 157 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 1: clinical practicum. And it's like, you know, mental health, And 158 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 1: we talked about this quite a bit on the Show 159 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:28,440 Speaker 1: of Mental Health. It's having this glorious moment in the 160 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 1: sun that has never happened in humanity to this degree. Right, 161 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 1: we had like our freud eras where we were giving 162 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:37,840 Speaker 1: these like kind of deep shifting understandings. But then it 163 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:40,080 Speaker 1: felt like there was maybe a hundred years or so 164 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:44,719 Speaker 1: or more where not as much advancement was made, especially 165 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 1: for non white males UM. That is typically the group 166 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 1: that studied most often across all medical understanding, not just 167 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 1: psychology UM. And so you know, I'm just so fascinated 168 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:06,319 Speaker 1: by the way you explore black pain, UM, and you 169 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:10,440 Speaker 1: explora really the effects of racism. So I'd love to 170 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:16,439 Speaker 1: start with first, you know, what is complex post traumatic stress, 171 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:20,000 Speaker 1: especially versus what we've come to know as a society 172 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 1: as post traumatic stress, which is most usually UM kind 173 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 1: of showcased and understanding related to war or service. Well, 174 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 1: I think probably in its uh simplest understanding is for 175 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 1: individuals who experience a trauma and then they experienced another 176 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 1: trauma that's overlaying on top of that and with the 177 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:45,960 Speaker 1: patial population that I'm thinking of as an example, when 178 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:48,520 Speaker 1: I work with individuals who are in mental health crisis 179 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:50,960 Speaker 1: and not quite sure if they want to live. And 180 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 1: we had a circumstance, you know, over the last year 181 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:57,199 Speaker 1: and which a patient went to the hospital, she was hospitalized, 182 00:11:57,240 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 1: her family was concerned, they didn't think she could keep 183 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 1: herself safe, and while she was in the hospital, she 184 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:07,840 Speaker 1: was traumatized by a gentleman who came into her room. 185 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:10,840 Speaker 1: And so we had to figure out Okay, which trauma 186 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:15,959 Speaker 1: address first? A lot of ways. Having a man come 187 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 1: into his room, and the man was another patient, so 188 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 1: he wasn't, you know, a provider, he wasn't a social worker, 189 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 1: he was another patient. He made her uncomfortable, and so 190 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 1: we had to figure out, okay, which part of her 191 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 1: narrative do we address first so that we can have 192 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 1: the maximum benefit for her and for a lot of us. 193 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:35,720 Speaker 1: We experienced just one thing on top of another on 194 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:39,200 Speaker 1: top of another, and it's all it's all complex because 195 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 1: we don't know whether we're coming or going, you know, 196 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 1: anything to survive was trying to live when we have 197 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 1: these really difficult circumstances that are important for us to 198 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 1: work through in order to begin to connect with the divine, 199 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:56,199 Speaker 1: connect with the higher power, connect with our purpose that 200 00:12:56,360 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 1: we can't get there where we are overwhelmed with stuff 201 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:04,319 Speaker 1: and we'll just call it stuff. A lot of us 202 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 1: have it and we just don't recognize it because we're 203 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:10,560 Speaker 1: such a resilient people. Oh my god, and everything that 204 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 1: you just said. You know, I really want people to 205 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 1: sink into this thought, especially after the show, because there 206 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 1: has been this one really specific lens of healing um 207 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:24,959 Speaker 1: in psychology and in spirituality. And I've been noticing that 208 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:28,880 Speaker 1: this is emerging a lot in conversations that I'm having 209 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 1: with different facilitators, more on the spiritual side of things. 210 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 1: But there it's a universal whether it's psychology, whether it's 211 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 1: people just in the country, or it's spirituality, there is 212 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:51,840 Speaker 1: this real um, this real blockage or barrier against understanding 213 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 1: how this kind of compounded energy works and how nothing 214 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 1: is a one size fixes fixes all, you know, fits all, 215 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:02,680 Speaker 1: like everything has to be explored in a kind of 216 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:05,360 Speaker 1: a variety of ways because of what you're describing. It's 217 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 1: not just the original wound, though that is the piece 218 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 1: that we have to find to be free, but it's 219 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 1: all the other wounds that got drummed up that that 220 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 1: were the you know, the shards from that original wound, 221 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 1: the scrap metal from that original wound. Um. You know, 222 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:25,960 Speaker 1: it's it's funny because I was talking to my doctoral 223 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 1: students today, had we had our three R siminar this morning, UM, 224 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 1: and I know sometimes students are overwhelmed because they see 225 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 1: people around them and they're feeling like I've got a 226 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 1: pinpoint the perfect situation in order to be able to 227 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 1: address all of the different symptoms and all of the 228 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 1: different ways of which these challenges are manifest And what 229 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 1: I've said to them is you first have to get 230 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 1: them to have an awareness of like a lot of 231 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 1: folks are just an autopilot that I mean, you know 232 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 1: this like trying to get from day to day. It's hard, 233 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 1: a real awareness of the level of pain. And until 234 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 1: we understand that, we can't begin to do any kind 235 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 1: of repair. Um you know, until then, you know, we're 236 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 1: just really going through the motions. And some folks just 237 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 1: want to know, like, seriously, how do I get out 238 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:17,240 Speaker 1: of bed? Like I'm not worrying, how do I take 239 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:20,320 Speaker 1: care of my children? I don't have them to do 240 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:22,080 Speaker 1: day to day things, and they just and they also 241 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 1: don't have the bandwidth to go deeper so wet with 242 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 1: the recognition, you know, and then start to And I 243 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 1: think people are starting to do that. I think the 244 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:33,640 Speaker 1: the awareness is increasing, but I think it's increasing because 245 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 1: people are so overwhelmed that they can't take it anymore. Um. 246 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 1: So you mentioned that, you know, at the beginning of 247 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 1: the pandemic, it was also three weeks before George Floyd 248 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 1: was murdered, So the middle of the pandemic, you know, 249 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 1: dealing with this racial trauma, and it's like what do 250 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 1: we do? Where do we go? We can't take it, 251 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 1: somebody help, you know, Praying about it insufficient. We need 252 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 1: something else. And I think that's why people are really 253 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 1: getting to a place of this sort of crossroads. And 254 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 1: at the cross road is like, Okay, somebody told me 255 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:06,960 Speaker 1: what to do. Somebody send a lifeline. Wow, there's so 256 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 1: something that's coming up immediately. And what you just said is, 257 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 1: you know, when we get to the piece of recognizing 258 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 1: that there's work to be done, and I really want 259 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 1: to speak to this fatigue that we really experience. And 260 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 1: if you are someone that has um had abuse of 261 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:28,920 Speaker 1: any kind mental, physical, emotional, spiritual, sexual abuse or traumas, 262 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 1: you know, for so many there is this awareness that God, 263 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 1: I want my life to feel better, but it's gonna 264 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 1: be too hard because you do understand the layering involved 265 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 1: and then what your current predicament looks like, what your 266 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 1: time constraints are. And you know, I think a lot 267 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 1: of that something that that you had expressed was giving 268 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 1: ourselves the opportunity to feel And I'd love to speak 269 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 1: to to Dr Rita, like what the barriers to that 270 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:01,800 Speaker 1: actually are because it's not that we're not ready to heal, 271 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 1: it's not that we can't feel. Sometimes it's really all 272 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:11,280 Speaker 1: of the pre programming, especially culturally, this idea of forced resilience, 273 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 1: this idea of well you push through and well everything's fine, 274 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:17,480 Speaker 1: and well you know it's gonna happen, Like we had 275 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 1: to adopt these coping mechanisms that have been become so 276 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:26,800 Speaker 1: ingrained without the context to just survive the immense amount 277 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 1: of constant disappointment, hardship, abuses, um that that non white 278 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:33,639 Speaker 1: people have faced in this country for their whole lives. 279 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 1: You know, I think I think I started off the 280 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 1: book by saying, like, who has time to be depressed? 281 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:45,240 Speaker 1: We were like, we don't have the time for that. Um, 282 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:50,119 Speaker 1: it's more of a luxury for other people. And I 283 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:53,880 Speaker 1: do actually wonder if there's a part of us that 284 00:17:53,880 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 1: that isn't ready and for therapy clients who show up 285 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:03,960 Speaker 1: because they are overwhelmed and they do want life to 286 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:08,120 Speaker 1: be different, like they can't keep doing what they're doing. 287 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:11,480 Speaker 1: At the same time, sort of the level of we 288 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 1: think about, you know, when you need surgery sometimes to 289 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 1: fix a problem, like the doctor might have said a 290 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:18,359 Speaker 1: year ago, you know, you really could use surgery, and 291 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 1: you're like, well, if I can walk on this, you know, 292 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 1: broken whatever for another few months, just tell me how 293 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:26,560 Speaker 1: long I got that I can walk on it? Um on. 294 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: The motivation doesn't kick in until we're paralyzed, until we 295 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 1: can't move any longer or move any further, because we 296 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 1: don't have the bandwidth. You know, We've got too much 297 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:40,680 Speaker 1: on our plates, too many responsibilities, so many things on 298 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:44,840 Speaker 1: our minds that oftentimes we want things to be better, 299 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 1: but we can't. We just don't have another gear to 300 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:51,359 Speaker 1: do these issues. And I get it. I truly believe 301 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 1: in meeting people where they are because we can't say, 302 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 1: well you should you know, when a one person mission 303 00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 1: to remove the word should from the from the vocabulary altogether, 304 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 1: we can't say well you should do better, you should 305 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,560 Speaker 1: want things to be different. Like that just doesn't doesn't 306 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 1: work ourselves. We have to give ourselves grace and meet 307 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:11,440 Speaker 1: ourselves where we are and maybe say, okay, what's going 308 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:15,119 Speaker 1: on right now that's keeping me from making real change 309 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:18,160 Speaker 1: in my life? Because until we can answer that question, 310 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:25,159 Speaker 1: we can't move forward. Mm hmm mm hmmmmm. What is 311 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:29,480 Speaker 1: the role of racism on our mental health. What is 312 00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:34,480 Speaker 1: the role specifically of like systemic oppression and micro aggressions 313 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:37,399 Speaker 1: on our emotional health. That's something that UM, as soon 314 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:39,600 Speaker 1: as I say this, I think all of us can 315 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:44,199 Speaker 1: bring forward just a multitude of experiences of that in 316 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 1: our lives. But I think it's really prevalent right now 317 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 1: as we watch, UM, some of the Supreme Court hearings 318 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 1: that are at play. Right when you watch Kintaji Brown 319 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 1: UM getting ready to be to become our next Supreme 320 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 1: Court justice, Praise God. And I'm so so grateful, UM 321 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:09,119 Speaker 1: for that powerful, brilliant black woman UM to be on 322 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court. I just have to like smile and 323 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 1: feel such gratitude about that. But we've been watching you know, 324 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 1: these Um, these things unfold as you know, she's having 325 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:24,720 Speaker 1: this this grand inquisition. And it's something that has been 326 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 1: coming out on social media, is people are specifically pointing 327 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:31,479 Speaker 1: out the microaggressions at play, or the way her versus 328 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:33,720 Speaker 1: like a Kavanaugh when he was in the same situation, 329 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:36,200 Speaker 1: the way that she has to hold herself so reserved, 330 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:38,400 Speaker 1: and we look at that and we say wow, that's 331 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:40,879 Speaker 1: so you know, you might say wow, that's so strong, 332 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:44,679 Speaker 1: or look at her poise under but that's survival. That 333 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 1: is survival because there's not another option, because any other 334 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 1: behavior you will be villainized for. So that's my original question. 335 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:56,240 Speaker 1: But what is the role you know, systemic oppression and 336 00:20:56,280 --> 00:21:01,119 Speaker 1: microaggressions really on our emotional health? I know it's a heavy, 337 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 1: heavy question. And actually one thing I want to do 338 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 1: is to disaggregate if I can, microaggression and racism, because 339 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:16,440 Speaker 1: the research actually suggests that microaggressions could be worse than 340 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:21,359 Speaker 1: overt racism. So those subtle things that happen that people say, like, oh, 341 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:25,680 Speaker 1: you're so articulate, but you're an educated person. Oh my god, 342 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 1: I am triggered right now. You speak so well, kinds 343 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:35,359 Speaker 1: of things as if you know what feeling that like, 344 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,919 Speaker 1: as if. But the thing is those who are on 345 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:40,960 Speaker 1: the receiving end of it are left trying to figure 346 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,000 Speaker 1: out like, Okay, what do they mean? What are they 347 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:45,359 Speaker 1: trying to say? Am I being too sensitive? And we 348 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:47,359 Speaker 1: go through all these thoughts in our minds, and that 349 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:52,160 Speaker 1: suggests or having to go through that cognitive process at 350 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:54,200 Speaker 1: the moment of whatever it is that we're supposed to 351 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 1: be doing. It's a huge distraction, you know, and it replays, 352 00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 1: it replaces over and over and over again, because someone 353 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 1: will come along and say, oh, they didn't mean it 354 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:07,960 Speaker 1: like that, and what is like that? You know, like 355 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:09,919 Speaker 1: that's the thing that always kills me. Well, you know, 356 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:12,240 Speaker 1: it wasn't like that, or they didn't mean it like that? 357 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 1: What is like that? What? What is the context for 358 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,160 Speaker 1: what we're saying right now? Yeah, Oh, it's funny. I'll 359 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 1: never forget. When I was in training, I had to 360 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: do a memory assessment for an older white gentleman and 361 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:25,479 Speaker 1: I was asking him questions and after a while he 362 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 1: ran out of the room and his daughter came in 363 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:30,199 Speaker 1: and she kind of looked at me and she just 364 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 1: had like she said, are you doing the assessment? And 365 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:37,680 Speaker 1: I said yes, and she was, oh, I'm sorry, I 366 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 1: didn't mean it like that, That's what she said. And 367 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:42,719 Speaker 1: then I looked at her like, what was the like that? 368 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:44,720 Speaker 1: And she said, And I didn't have to say anything. 369 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:47,439 Speaker 1: She already knew. Well, he has all daughters, and so 370 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:53,360 Speaker 1: he was probably uncomfortable answering questions. You know. For one, sure, um, 371 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 1: so they know what the like that is, but it 372 00:22:55,640 --> 00:23:01,439 Speaker 1: being to actually answer that question. But These are honest 373 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:04,000 Speaker 1: conversations that we need to have, especially in this place 374 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:08,680 Speaker 1: of racial reckoning. Um that it's not our responsibility to 375 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:13,119 Speaker 1: answer these questions for those who are perpetrating microaggressive and 376 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:18,520 Speaker 1: racist behavior, because I do think go ahead, thank you 377 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:20,720 Speaker 1: so much. And before we even get into the part 378 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 1: on like systemic oppression racism, I'd love to ask, like 379 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 1: if you have examples of how microaggression show up in 380 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:31,919 Speaker 1: a child parent dynamic and in a friendship dynamic, Like 381 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 1: how are we really out in these streets experiencing these 382 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 1: microaggressions Because what you just highlighted is, you know, the 383 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:45,159 Speaker 1: tremendous amount of emotional and mental fatigue and exhaustion that 384 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: takes place every time you have to do those there's 385 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 1: really a mental gymnastics around these aggressive, aggressive behaviors, you know, 386 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 1: I mean the kinds of things that come to mind 387 00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:01,679 Speaker 1: for me and what you mentioned child parent child relationships. Yeah, 388 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:03,840 Speaker 1: I actually need for you to if you're thinking in 389 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 1: a certain direction, I might need you to help me 390 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:07,520 Speaker 1: out a little bit. Yeah. Well, you know, I think 391 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:10,359 Speaker 1: for a lot of people right now, especially listeners of 392 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:14,359 Speaker 1: this show, there is certain kind of investigations taking place 393 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:16,440 Speaker 1: within ourselves. And so I think a lot of people 394 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 1: right now are on this beautiful but very um deep 395 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:26,359 Speaker 1: journey of reparenting in some ways and noticing um, you know, 396 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:29,960 Speaker 1: certain behaviors that may not have lived up to these 397 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 1: false ideals and society of what family of origin can 398 00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 1: look like. So I think a lot of people are 399 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:40,200 Speaker 1: exploring where their interactions with their parents um, or with 400 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 1: other family members, you know, where some microaggressions are at 401 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 1: play or you know, deregulated emotional communication UM. And I 402 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 1: think as well, you know, in our friendships, because a 403 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 1: lot of people from the pandemic are exploring, like, what 404 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,639 Speaker 1: are the relationships that are serving to me and what 405 00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 1: are the ones that may have been keeping me bound 406 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:01,240 Speaker 1: that I wasn't able to pay attention to because I 407 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 1: had never heard of terminology like microaggressions or I haven't 408 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:08,920 Speaker 1: heard of you know, gaslighting or whatever the behaviors are. 409 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 1: So maybe even like these these cross racial friendships where uh, well, 410 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:20,080 Speaker 1: I I want to understand, tell me more about your experience. 411 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:22,640 Speaker 1: Does that sounds like something that folks have struggled with 412 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:25,520 Speaker 1: a lot. I think a lot, especially in the corporate 413 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 1: space right now, Yeah, I think a lot because there's 414 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 1: there is this reckoning happening in these conversations that um yeah, yeah, 415 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 1: I think a lot of that is coming forward, and 416 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,199 Speaker 1: it's coming forward in a way that we're also in 417 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 1: real time allowed to stand up for self to correct it. Um. 418 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,320 Speaker 1: But I think people are probably moticing, you know, things 419 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,400 Speaker 1: that were never called that before that it's like, oh, whoa, 420 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:54,240 Speaker 1: I have language for this, you know. It's it's interesting 421 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,359 Speaker 1: because of the circumstances that have brought this to the 422 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:01,639 Speaker 1: four right, So no friends who have said things and 423 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:03,800 Speaker 1: people just blew it off because they try to help 424 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 1: their friends, like, oh, they didn't mean it like that. 425 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 1: But when we're kind of like a tipping point of racism, 426 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:12,840 Speaker 1: and that we have been since George Floyd's murder, the yes, 427 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,440 Speaker 1: people are starting to reevaluate like what does that mean 428 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 1: when they say that? And it's because people have lost 429 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 1: friendships from friends seeming like oh I don't even see 430 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 1: you as black, Like oh my god, what right? First 431 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:36,240 Speaker 1: of all, it's not like I feel like across the 432 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,399 Speaker 1: world right now, everyone is like girl like there is 433 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 1: like their their knees, like such cringe worthy conversations. Um, 434 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:50,160 Speaker 1: with every point, you know, and it's funny. I actually 435 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:51,679 Speaker 1: reached out to a friend of mine who is a 436 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 1: white male, to say, like, look, I need you to 437 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:57,280 Speaker 1: figure out how to help your people, because we need 438 00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:00,879 Speaker 1: folks in your community to figure this out most yourselves, 439 00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:06,359 Speaker 1: you know, without coming to and laying this burden to say, okay, 440 00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:08,480 Speaker 1: tell me what's going on for you is that they've 441 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:12,080 Speaker 1: been I don't know someone well, not as if the privilege, 442 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,160 Speaker 1: you know, the privilege of what it means to be 443 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:17,800 Speaker 1: a white person in society, having no idea of what 444 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:21,840 Speaker 1: it's like to be African American, to be about descent 445 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 1: in the world, because it's not just in the US, 446 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 1: like internationally, I've heard from folks saying like, I know 447 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:30,679 Speaker 1: you talk about this in the US, but in London 448 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:35,960 Speaker 1: we're going through the same thing. Racism is the same 449 00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:40,200 Speaker 1: thing where we are. And we know that our friends 450 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:43,880 Speaker 1: mean well, but they're also very much protected. And that's 451 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:45,800 Speaker 1: not the kingtro all friends, right, Like, we have some 452 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:48,600 Speaker 1: white friends you know who will go hard in the paint, 453 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:52,320 Speaker 1: you know, if they think we've been disrespected to stand 454 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:54,920 Speaker 1: up or they don't have to ask questions because they've 455 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:58,080 Speaker 1: been investing in that relationship and who you are, who 456 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 1: we are others, we're realizing that those relationships just aren't 457 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:07,159 Speaker 1: as deep as that other friends may think that that's 458 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 1: what it is. Yeah, and this is a real like 459 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 1: I know me personally kind of related and unrelated. But 460 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 1: this whole season for me has been about that, really 461 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:20,959 Speaker 1: just about casual friendships are okay, I just don't have 462 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,119 Speaker 1: the time in my life right now for a lot 463 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:27,239 Speaker 1: of them. And so I had to really sit and 464 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:31,360 Speaker 1: identify what are the relationships that have the depth that 465 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,160 Speaker 1: really speaks to my life and my soul and matter 466 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:37,479 Speaker 1: to me. And you know, there's only so many hours 467 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 1: in the day, and you do make time and priority 468 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:42,840 Speaker 1: for what matters, and so I wanted to be really 469 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 1: specific about that. Um. Yeah, So anyway, that's a that's 470 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 1: a whole another podcast for another day. Let me add 471 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 1: one other thing because it does very per person and 472 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,320 Speaker 1: one of the I'm very clear, even as I talk 473 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,480 Speaker 1: about in the book, you know, everyone has a different bandwidth, 474 00:28:57,520 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 1: you know, everyone can tell me. But for so much 475 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:06,440 Speaker 1: who has always had very very little toleration for the 476 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: stuff other people are realizing they have less and other 477 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:13,720 Speaker 1: folks are okay, you know, they're fine. And they're fine 478 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 1: saying they didn't get it or they didn't understand. We 479 00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:18,520 Speaker 1: just have to be honest, you know, with ourselves as 480 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 1: individuals about where we are and when can we dive 481 00:29:56,200 --> 00:30:00,600 Speaker 1: into back into racism for a second, U it's done 482 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:04,040 Speaker 1: into it. Um you know, the the role of systemic 483 00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:07,680 Speaker 1: oppression and the role of racism on our mental health. 484 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:09,560 Speaker 1: What does that look like and what is the toll 485 00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 1: that that actually takes on us emotionally and psychologically. It's 486 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:16,720 Speaker 1: it's a tremendous hole, in part because we just moved 487 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:21,240 Speaker 1: through it like it's air and like that system is 488 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:24,520 Speaker 1: about that. It is everywhere. It is you know, not 489 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:27,239 Speaker 1: just driving down the street and being pulled over by 490 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,800 Speaker 1: the police and being hyper vigilant, but it's also you know, 491 00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:34,360 Speaker 1: in the Supreme Court, uh nomination and dealing with that. 492 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:37,120 Speaker 1: It is in the classroom and having one's child in 493 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,560 Speaker 1: the classroom where they're wondering what the teacher is doing. 494 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:43,680 Speaker 1: My child has said to me, Mom, they did that 495 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 1: because they're racist. You know, he could say that at 496 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:50,080 Speaker 1: nine years old his mom having to figure out and 497 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,200 Speaker 1: how how not to come in weapons hot because that's 498 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 1: how I feel, because I don't want to be dismissed 499 00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 1: because I'm a black woman. It is. It is everywhere, 500 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 1: It's the neighborhoods where we live. It is everywhere. And 501 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:05,360 Speaker 1: because it's part of the narrative of what it means 502 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 1: to exist as a black person or someone who identifies 503 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:12,760 Speaker 1: as a black person in this society, it means constantly 504 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:17,160 Speaker 1: figuring out how to navigate how one will be perceived 505 00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:21,360 Speaker 1: and being especially conscious not to internalize that. I had 506 00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 1: a conversation recently with the young man that this stuff 507 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 1: is going to happen over here. So this is the 508 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:28,760 Speaker 1: pot over here, or this stuff is happening. This is 509 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,840 Speaker 1: the pot where you're clear about who you are and 510 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:35,400 Speaker 1: that anyone is saying about you that is dismissive or 511 00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:40,520 Speaker 1: denigrate to, you know, down as a black person, that 512 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:44,880 Speaker 1: has nothing to do with you, and that we unfortunately 513 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:50,920 Speaker 1: have to balance. That does require work, and that is exhausting, 514 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,640 Speaker 1: but it's how we get to the other side of 515 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 1: this stuff. I believe that, Yeah, you know, something that 516 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,800 Speaker 1: I've been thinking about is like how long does it 517 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:06,480 Speaker 1: take for the world to change? And so like as 518 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:10,200 Speaker 1: I'm as I'm looking, I think I think about five 519 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:14,520 Speaker 1: years is where I'm sitting right now. UM, I've just 520 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,680 Speaker 1: been really thinking about history, and I've been thinking about 521 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 1: the way that our systems change, the way that our 522 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:24,120 Speaker 1: consciousness collectively shifts when it happens in the bigger degree, 523 00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:28,680 Speaker 1: And you know, thinking this all of this is by design, 524 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:32,560 Speaker 1: this moment of mental health, UM, this exploration of self 525 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,440 Speaker 1: that we're all kind of given a key to, this, 526 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:39,480 Speaker 1: this grand moment of spirituality that's happening in a more 527 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:42,480 Speaker 1: mainstream way than even you know, some of the original 528 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:46,400 Speaker 1: New Age movement did, um, sixties, seventies, eight and seventies. 529 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,480 Speaker 1: But so I just keep thinking, as we're doing all 530 00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:51,600 Speaker 1: of this exploring, like, how long does it take to 531 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:57,000 Speaker 1: actually remove like American racism, especially from the fibers of 532 00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:00,640 Speaker 1: our society. UM. I know I won't be here for it, 533 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:03,760 Speaker 1: but at least in this form. But it's just we're 534 00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:07,720 Speaker 1: doing tremendous work right now. I think from the psychological level, 535 00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:10,880 Speaker 1: what is your viewpoint of it? I may be a 536 00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:17,680 Speaker 1: bit of a cynic h but okay, five hundred years 537 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:22,960 Speaker 1: would compute with my cynicism, because I just I don't 538 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:27,000 Speaker 1: have the confidence that it'll go away for a really 539 00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:30,480 Speaker 1: very long time. So we'll go five hundred years. You know, 540 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:31,960 Speaker 1: I was looking and I'm like, okay, let's see we 541 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:35,640 Speaker 1: got five hundred years ago. Okay, all right, um. And 542 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 1: that's why it's even more important part of why I 543 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:43,160 Speaker 1: wrote the book, because let's really going nowhere, Yeah, to 544 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:47,320 Speaker 1: take control of these narratives, and not as individuals, because 545 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:51,160 Speaker 1: it's too hard for individuals. We have to do it 546 00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:54,920 Speaker 1: as communities. We have to of course, you know, our 547 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 1: community struggle because we have understandable issues with trust that 548 00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:02,000 Speaker 1: started with Jasley agree um, that we have to work through. 549 00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:08,160 Speaker 1: But we can't we it, folks. Racism is there for 550 00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:11,759 Speaker 1: a reason. It was, it was built, it was intentional. 551 00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:16,760 Speaker 1: And the master's tools cannot destroy the master's house. Whoa, whoa, whoa. 552 00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:24,000 Speaker 1: The master's tools cannot destroy the master's house. I'm pretty 553 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:28,280 Speaker 1: sure that's Audrey Lord. How did okay? That is? Like? Wow, 554 00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:32,480 Speaker 1: how does that fit into the way we need to 555 00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:36,280 Speaker 1: understand how to cultivate tools to heal us, to fuel 556 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:39,160 Speaker 1: us in the ways that we're deserving. Well, I think 557 00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:41,560 Speaker 1: that when we when we start there and we realize, 558 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,480 Speaker 1: because so often we're thinking, okay, maybe we can just 559 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:47,239 Speaker 1: get some different legislature you know, maybe if we just 560 00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:52,080 Speaker 1: get a d I consultant at this predominant operation, that 561 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:54,880 Speaker 1: that'll fix it. We have to realize that's not going 562 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:57,600 Speaker 1: to fix it. It looks nice, it feels good, but 563 00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:00,479 Speaker 1: that is not the solution. And once we figure that out, 564 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,359 Speaker 1: we're able to say, as an example what the Black 565 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:05,799 Speaker 1: Panthers did in the sixties and seventies, like, we're going 566 00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:10,319 Speaker 1: to provide for our communities and we will build what 567 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,879 Speaker 1: we need. We can't rely on other folks to one 568 00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:17,520 Speaker 1: undo racism or to build what we need. We have 569 00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:20,600 Speaker 1: too much activity to even rely on what could be 570 00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:23,799 Speaker 1: built from someone else, because we need something from from 571 00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:26,799 Speaker 1: within us. This speaks to our soul, that speaks to 572 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:30,400 Speaker 1: us really deep way. And I'm convinced that we have it, 573 00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,400 Speaker 1: I truly am. But we have to recognize that we 574 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:37,120 Speaker 1: need to get there first. Yeah, you know, we're starting 575 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,600 Speaker 1: to see it. You know, we're we're starting to see 576 00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:44,120 Speaker 1: us building what we need. We need more than more. Well, 577 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,880 Speaker 1: let's check in five hundred years. Um, I don't know 578 00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:48,799 Speaker 1: what we're gonna look like. So and I just have 579 00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:51,560 Speaker 1: to give our heads up to everybody listening. You might 580 00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:54,560 Speaker 1: vaguely hear a little boy screaming in the back of 581 00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:58,960 Speaker 1: this episode, or laughing or dancing. My my soon to 582 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:01,760 Speaker 1: be four year old is on bring break and he 583 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:05,200 Speaker 1: is frolicking around the house. So we are doing our best, 584 00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:11,600 Speaker 1: Dr Rita. You know we are. We're kind of deep 585 00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:17,520 Speaker 1: in some of the fibers of understanding, UM, the path 586 00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:23,080 Speaker 1: to healing, the path to psychological understanding in this moment 587 00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:27,320 Speaker 1: in human history. We talk a lot on this show 588 00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:32,319 Speaker 1: about ancestral healing and about ancestral trauma, and especially understanding 589 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:35,520 Speaker 1: why so many of us may be finding ourselves as 590 00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:39,640 Speaker 1: the first in our lineage to maybe shift things in 591 00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:41,880 Speaker 1: a new way, or to bring a new type of 592 00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:45,360 Speaker 1: parenting forward, to bring a new type of self love 593 00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:49,040 Speaker 1: or family love forward. UM. And we're all learning in 594 00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:51,319 Speaker 1: real time as we go, and we're all kind of 595 00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:55,680 Speaker 1: dissolving and releasing in real time as we go. Why 596 00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,480 Speaker 1: is this so hard? You know? If you could speak 597 00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:04,280 Speaker 1: to especially know, what is it about the complex, deeply 598 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:10,040 Speaker 1: complicated history of And I'm going to specifically speak about 599 00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:12,719 Speaker 1: the black experience, but this is really for the American 600 00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:18,080 Speaker 1: non white experience, UM in this country. You know, what, 601 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:20,560 Speaker 1: what are some of the layers that people aren't seeing, 602 00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:23,120 Speaker 1: in the connections that people aren't seeing that make it 603 00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:28,359 Speaker 1: as challenging as it feels. There are so many directions 604 00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:34,120 Speaker 1: that that oh I got you if a little lot longer, 605 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:38,960 Speaker 1: but you know, um, in my head the way it goes, 606 00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:42,560 Speaker 1: I like, what about this? What about that? And one 607 00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:47,640 Speaker 1: of the things that I find most fascinating is the 608 00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:51,440 Speaker 1: way in which people of African descent have had to 609 00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:59,440 Speaker 1: minimize and deny what it means African. UM since interview 610 00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:03,520 Speaker 1: with um brother Smokey Robinson recently and he said he 611 00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:07,160 Speaker 1: didn't want to be called African American. He's just black. 612 00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:09,880 Speaker 1: And it reminds me of a conversation I have with 613 00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:12,760 Speaker 1: a with an undergraduate student in my Black psychology course 614 00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:16,759 Speaker 1: years ago, and he said, why are we talking about Africa. 615 00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:20,279 Speaker 1: You don't see me sitting around beating a drum. And 616 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:25,000 Speaker 1: there is a disconnect between what it means to be, 617 00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:28,880 Speaker 1: what it means to be African, and and who black 618 00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:33,040 Speaker 1: people are wherever we are in the diaspora, because part 619 00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:38,799 Speaker 1: of survival has been separating ourselves from being African, because 620 00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:41,560 Speaker 1: that's that's a bad thing, that's a negative thing. Africa's 621 00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:45,840 Speaker 1: the dark continent. Despite the enormous resources on the continent, 622 00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:49,440 Speaker 1: we brought the culture with them, like we didn't just 623 00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:54,040 Speaker 1: show up in two is like people of African descent 624 00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:58,160 Speaker 1: who don't have a cultural connection to being African. The 625 00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:00,400 Speaker 1: reason we're as spiritual as we are through reason that 626 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:05,000 Speaker 1: we survive the atrocity of chattel slavery is because of 627 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:07,400 Speaker 1: the culture that we brought from the African continent, meaning 628 00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:09,719 Speaker 1: you know, the belief in the higher power, the sense 629 00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:12,279 Speaker 1: that is not just me as an individual, but that 630 00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:15,440 Speaker 1: I am connected to the universe. We brought that with us. 631 00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:20,840 Speaker 1: The sense that family isn't about a blood relative and 632 00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,120 Speaker 1: you know who got the same moment the name that like, 633 00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:28,560 Speaker 1: that's not who family is in a traditional to play cousins. 634 00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:31,840 Speaker 1: In fact, there wasn't even language there in some dialects, 635 00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:34,319 Speaker 1: there isn't a work for cousins. Everyone is a sister 636 00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:37,440 Speaker 1: and a brother. And so we were able to to 637 00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:41,279 Speaker 1: survive being snatched from one home to the next home 638 00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:48,000 Speaker 1: because everyone just absorbs like that is always who we've been. 639 00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:52,359 Speaker 1: But because we don't know to attach that to Africanism, 640 00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:56,959 Speaker 1: and the bad thing, we don't know who we are 641 00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:01,880 Speaker 1: and there is no one. No community that can thrive 642 00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:04,960 Speaker 1: and be successful without knowing who they are. We got 643 00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:08,800 Speaker 1: home out heroes knowing who they are and then achieving 644 00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:12,560 Speaker 1: some triumphant goal because they know who they are. And 645 00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:16,200 Speaker 1: so it always saddens me. Uh, you know when folks 646 00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:20,080 Speaker 1: try to separate themselves from the continent. Yeah, we've been 647 00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:23,360 Speaker 1: here more than four hundred years. But guess what, you know, 648 00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:27,840 Speaker 1: we've survived not being integrated. We we still don't have integration. 649 00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:30,359 Speaker 1: If anybody goes to a public school, we still don't 650 00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:33,680 Speaker 1: have integration. And so we still have the culture that 651 00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:36,840 Speaker 1: we brought with us that we have used to survive 652 00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:42,880 Speaker 1: generation after generation. Me their parents taught them, their parents 653 00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:45,959 Speaker 1: taught them. It's not been that long. And so that's why, 654 00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:49,239 Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, we see ourselves, we experience 655 00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:53,920 Speaker 1: the world so differently because we have a different history 656 00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:57,719 Speaker 1: and this community, and we have to be we have 657 00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:00,160 Speaker 1: to embrace that, you know. We that's where we have 658 00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:03,239 Speaker 1: to begin. And I'll have a conversation with anyone who says, well, 659 00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:05,479 Speaker 1: I'm not African, so I don't know why we're talking 660 00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:10,359 Speaker 1: about Africa. I'm always glad to have that conversation. Mm hmm. Yeah, 661 00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:13,160 Speaker 1: that brings up a lot because I think while I 662 00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:15,359 Speaker 1: was with all the things, you know, it's so it's 663 00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:19,480 Speaker 1: so layered and complex. It's like Africa is the largest 664 00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:27,200 Speaker 1: continent just you know, just a phenomenal the works that 665 00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:30,360 Speaker 1: have been added to humanity from that one continent alone 666 00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:33,759 Speaker 1: in human history. It's just like, my God. But then 667 00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:35,840 Speaker 1: I think too, it's like when you come into this country, 668 00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:40,040 Speaker 1: especially when slavery happened, people were coming from so many 669 00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:43,560 Speaker 1: different places, and then you know, part of what comes 670 00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:46,279 Speaker 1: forward for me is like they're probably in our ancestry 671 00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:52,320 Speaker 1: had to be almost somewhat of a release from remembering 672 00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:55,400 Speaker 1: we were from Africa because it was too painful. You know, 673 00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:58,520 Speaker 1: you think about not being able to get back somewhere, 674 00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:02,600 Speaker 1: and after the first or second generation that came here 675 00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:05,080 Speaker 1: dies off, it's like, even if you got on a ship, 676 00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:07,160 Speaker 1: you may not know where to go to be with, 677 00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:10,719 Speaker 1: you know, your your own families and your own ancestry. 678 00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:13,200 Speaker 1: And then I think, on the flip side of that, 679 00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:15,880 Speaker 1: it's it's felt like sometimes in the US that there 680 00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:20,960 Speaker 1: is this rejection of the African American black American experience 681 00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:23,719 Speaker 1: by those in Africa. So there feels like there's a 682 00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:28,200 Speaker 1: disconnect for some and so in a variety of ways. UM, 683 00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:30,319 Speaker 1: but what you're saying is so true and it it 684 00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:35,240 Speaker 1: reminded me of UM my divine sister, Queen Afua, something 685 00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:39,440 Speaker 1: that she shares so often, UM with her with her 686 00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:43,080 Speaker 1: amazing group of women that she works with, the sacred, 687 00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:46,759 Speaker 1: sacred healing and the sacred woman. She she says all 688 00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:53,239 Speaker 1: the time that we're just remembering, UM, natural African lifestyle. 689 00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:57,400 Speaker 1: This is just natural African lifestyle, you know. UM. And 690 00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:01,239 Speaker 1: there's so much disarm me. And sometimes it has to 691 00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:04,840 Speaker 1: be done for what is naturally ingrained in our genetic 692 00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:07,920 Speaker 1: systems and our bodies and our souls to be an 693 00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:11,640 Speaker 1: acceptance of it. Yeah, and we have to be you know, 694 00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:14,200 Speaker 1: we first have to be informed, um, you know in 695 00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:18,359 Speaker 1: recognizing how how it exists in us because we don't 696 00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:20,520 Speaker 1: have that language. And one of my favorite things to do, 697 00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:23,160 Speaker 1: I talked to my students about UM. You know, we 698 00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:26,279 Speaker 1: talk about CP CP time. I'll just say for the 699 00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:30,359 Speaker 1: audience who does not know, UM color people time, that 700 00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:35,719 Speaker 1: folks are oftentimes late or not where they're supposed to be, UM, 701 00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:40,439 Speaker 1: based on the clock. But if you recognize that it 702 00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:45,120 Speaker 1: is okay to have a different worldview. Um so worldview 703 00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:48,520 Speaker 1: says time is linear. So you know, if you're five 704 00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:52,000 Speaker 1: minutes if you're if you're there at the hour, you're late. 705 00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:54,680 Speaker 1: You know, military if you're there five minutes before the time, 706 00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:58,279 Speaker 1: then you're on time. And everyone is supposed to be 707 00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:00,399 Speaker 1: where they're supposed to be in a designated at moment. 708 00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:03,040 Speaker 1: But if you think of time differently, and if you 709 00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:07,040 Speaker 1: think of the value of relationships, and I'm late to 710 00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:10,480 Speaker 1: this conversation with you, Debby, because I was having a 711 00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:13,960 Speaker 1: conversation with a sister and connecting with her, and so 712 00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:17,600 Speaker 1: I wasn't valuing I have to get here at X hour. 713 00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:22,640 Speaker 1: I'm valuing that relationship in spending time with that person 714 00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:26,880 Speaker 1: such that the thing that I'm doing doesn't take away 715 00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:29,600 Speaker 1: from me being where I'm supposed to be, but it's 716 00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:33,960 Speaker 1: still recognizes or prioritize the relationship that I'm in in 717 00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:40,040 Speaker 1: that moment, not some future event or future situation. And 718 00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:42,239 Speaker 1: I say all of that to say that while we 719 00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:44,640 Speaker 1: have put down a lot of the ways that black 720 00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:48,160 Speaker 1: people do things, that when we dig a little bit deeper, 721 00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:51,000 Speaker 1: we have to recognize that there could be a bigger 722 00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:55,000 Speaker 1: cultural meaning and that you just lost a lot of 723 00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:58,200 Speaker 1: that language, and we even internalize racism and saying well, 724 00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:00,279 Speaker 1: the way that black people do things is just wrong 725 00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:03,719 Speaker 1: and backwards. Well, no, it's different. It's different, but it 726 00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:07,920 Speaker 1: doesn't make it deficient. And how we need to have 727 00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:11,080 Speaker 1: more of starting with our our little kids, um, and 728 00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:15,759 Speaker 1: the little so they can better understand it's different, but 729 00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:21,200 Speaker 1: it doesn't make it deficient. Mm hmmmmmmm. That is beautiful 730 00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:28,239 Speaker 1: when we think about the effects of the family structure 731 00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:35,760 Speaker 1: psychologically and emotionally. Um, can you speak to to really 732 00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:40,440 Speaker 1: the truth some of the kind of natural, almost inherent 733 00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:44,239 Speaker 1: trauma that we're each carrying that can date all the 734 00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:47,040 Speaker 1: way back to broken family structures and slavery and then 735 00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:51,279 Speaker 1: mass incarceration of the black community. Um, all of the 736 00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:54,160 Speaker 1: different systems that have been put up at every turn 737 00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:59,719 Speaker 1: to kind of break down black family structure. You know, 738 00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:05,400 Speaker 1: I think it comes down to survival through adaptation. M h. 739 00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:11,640 Speaker 1: Trauma happened, there's some index event that happened to generations ago, 740 00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:16,359 Speaker 1: and the person who experienced that trauma maybe didn't have 741 00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:19,680 Speaker 1: any support, They didn't have anyone around them who was 742 00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:22,200 Speaker 1: able to say, let's sit down and talk about this, 743 00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:24,920 Speaker 1: but instead because they themselves were dealing with trauma, or 744 00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:27,520 Speaker 1: they themselves were dealing with something else, they said, you 745 00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:29,640 Speaker 1: know what, you just gotta keep it moving, or they 746 00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:33,920 Speaker 1: deny that anything happened. And so that person carrying this 747 00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:37,080 Speaker 1: trauma that manifests in ways that looks like them being 748 00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:41,919 Speaker 1: angry all the time. Already, they're always irritable, like they 749 00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:46,319 Speaker 1: parent from that place, and then that child experiences that 750 00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:52,359 Speaker 1: from their parents who has untreated, unaddressed wounds. But they 751 00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:55,240 Speaker 1: don't know why, you know, our children, why their parents 752 00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:57,080 Speaker 1: do what they do. And that's why we always hope 753 00:46:57,120 --> 00:46:59,839 Speaker 1: that you know, we as adults, we as parents, can 754 00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:01,640 Speaker 1: and fix what's going on with us so that we 755 00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:05,880 Speaker 1: don't pass it on to our children. But that is 756 00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:10,200 Speaker 1: really really hard work, and instead we're just trying to 757 00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:12,719 Speaker 1: get from day to day doing the best that we can, 758 00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:14,759 Speaker 1: you know, and everyone is doing the best that they 759 00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:17,760 Speaker 1: can right not recognizing that they kind of have ankle 760 00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:20,719 Speaker 1: weights on it's kind of holding them back and we 761 00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:24,400 Speaker 1: have to those those ankle weights and repair those and 762 00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:28,560 Speaker 1: again understanding that we're trying to survive. We're adapting to 763 00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:31,840 Speaker 1: what we have. So if someone has access to therapy, 764 00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:34,080 Speaker 1: Well yeah, I mean they may go to therapy and 765 00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:35,960 Speaker 1: get the work done, but if they don't have access 766 00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:38,319 Speaker 1: to that, or they don't believe in therapy, or they 767 00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:41,319 Speaker 1: think therapies for white people, then they're just going to 768 00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:43,839 Speaker 1: do the best that they have with what they have 769 00:47:43,880 --> 00:48:12,239 Speaker 1: access Rocking to something I'm really hoping gets conveyed in 770 00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:17,720 Speaker 1: this episode, especially if there are any facilitators that happen 771 00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:22,120 Speaker 1: to be listening right now of sacred work of healing work, um, 772 00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:25,800 Speaker 1: if there are therapists listening, if there are energetic healers listening, 773 00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:34,640 Speaker 1: meditation teachers, really sit with the thoughts, if able, around 774 00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:37,480 Speaker 1: this layering that you're hearing because a theme I think 775 00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:41,000 Speaker 1: in our episode that we're speaking to Dr Rita's you know, 776 00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:43,359 Speaker 1: the idea of those ankle weights, and I think, just 777 00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:46,480 Speaker 1: in this episode alone, and we haven't even scratched the surface, 778 00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:53,040 Speaker 1: we've identified like potential acle weights. But imagine that someone 779 00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:57,840 Speaker 1: that you are teaching meditation to, that you're given giving 780 00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:02,000 Speaker 1: guidance to emotionally or spiritual you know, really understand that 781 00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:04,839 Speaker 1: we are walking to the table sometimes some of us 782 00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:11,000 Speaker 1: with each leg having fifty different really specific angle angle 783 00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:14,000 Speaker 1: weights waiting us down and that it is kind of 784 00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:19,160 Speaker 1: this delicate surgery that has to be done to release 785 00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:22,720 Speaker 1: each one, and each one has to be released for 786 00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:26,520 Speaker 1: the betterment of the whole being in front of you. Um, 787 00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:30,080 Speaker 1: because that that piece and I'm curious if this happens 788 00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:33,480 Speaker 1: in the psychology world, Um, this piece happens in the 789 00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:35,879 Speaker 1: spiritual world. So much this idea of yeah, but we're 790 00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:38,719 Speaker 1: all souls and we're all one in worl. It's all 791 00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:40,960 Speaker 1: about love. We just all have to remember to love. 792 00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:44,880 Speaker 1: And everyone I talked to about this, I shared this 793 00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:49,040 Speaker 1: quite a bit. It drives me nuts because we are 794 00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:53,759 Speaker 1: not all arriving as equals in some of these scenarios. 795 00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:56,160 Speaker 1: There are karmic pat patterns that plays. There are these 796 00:49:56,200 --> 00:50:00,320 Speaker 1: systems of oppression. These are the societal weights, these angle eights. 797 00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:04,960 Speaker 1: And some people have such a fully loaded curriculum in 798 00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:07,839 Speaker 1: this life, you know, And so it's not like all 799 00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:10,239 Speaker 1: of this. No healing is one size fits all. But 800 00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:15,560 Speaker 1: if there are especially practitioners listening, please please please, UM, 801 00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:18,239 Speaker 1: bring this a little, bring this a little closer to heart. 802 00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:23,000 Speaker 1: Consider kind of diving into your curiosity with understanding what 803 00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:26,600 Speaker 1: different groups of people, what they might be. Some barriers 804 00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:28,880 Speaker 1: for them, um that they don't that they may not 805 00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:32,080 Speaker 1: even be aware of. But in in the psychology world, 806 00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:33,680 Speaker 1: I would just love your thoughts on all of that. 807 00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:37,880 Speaker 1: Dr Rita, Well, you know, I mean psychology, it's it's 808 00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:41,799 Speaker 1: it's interesting a lot of the evidence that we use 809 00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:46,399 Speaker 1: does come from a more Eurocentric paradigm. Though I will 810 00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:50,040 Speaker 1: highlight that psychology, while many may think it's the study 811 00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:53,000 Speaker 1: of the mind, is actually technically the study of the 812 00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:58,560 Speaker 1: soul and the spirit. Yeah. Historically, you know, Greek scholars, 813 00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:01,440 Speaker 1: so we have to be able to count and physically see, 814 00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:04,960 Speaker 1: so they dismiss soul and spirit for what could be 815 00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:11,040 Speaker 1: seen as behavior and actions. So that's one bucket with psychology. 816 00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:13,760 Speaker 1: And so the way that that has fast forward to 817 00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:15,719 Speaker 1: to now, you know, to the twenty first century, even 818 00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:18,560 Speaker 1: back to the twentieth century was being able to look 819 00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:22,520 Speaker 1: at more individualistic behavior, so being able to see what 820 00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:25,319 Speaker 1: the person is doing or what they're not doing, and 821 00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:29,680 Speaker 1: not really making room for that which cannot be cannot 822 00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:33,560 Speaker 1: be seen. Um. So psychology I think has a tremendous 823 00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:37,200 Speaker 1: limitation in that way. What I always think is important 824 00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:40,480 Speaker 1: when I'm training doctoral students is to tell them that 825 00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:43,440 Speaker 1: they are in a collaboration with that client. And so 826 00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:46,320 Speaker 1: if that client or patient you know, has a strong 827 00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:50,680 Speaker 1: spiritual sense, they have a religious perspective, they have to 828 00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:54,160 Speaker 1: integrate that into the work that they're doing to the 829 00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:57,960 Speaker 1: best that they can. But as you might imagine, there 830 00:51:57,960 --> 00:52:01,479 Speaker 1: aren't a lot of psychologists who are comfortable having those 831 00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:04,480 Speaker 1: conversations because we think that we have to be experts 832 00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:08,319 Speaker 1: and everything and we can't um and we all have to, 833 00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:12,840 Speaker 1: but it is a limitation in the discipline of or specifically, 834 00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:15,880 Speaker 1: I will say, in clinical psychology. So that's my area, 835 00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:19,120 Speaker 1: that is clinical psychology. We deal with more severe kinds 836 00:52:19,120 --> 00:52:24,080 Speaker 1: of challenges and problems with depression and other types of psychology, 837 00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:27,680 Speaker 1: as you know, does make room for considering spirituality. But 838 00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:29,520 Speaker 1: this is something that you know, we have to be 839 00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:34,120 Speaker 1: much more intentional about, especially in clinical mm hmmm. I 840 00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:39,080 Speaker 1: would love your your expertise right now, especially around clinical psychology. 841 00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:47,360 Speaker 1: How how does someone know what kind of maybe cognitive 842 00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:49,719 Speaker 1: mental health assistance that they need? You know, when you 843 00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:54,240 Speaker 1: when you think about kind of some of the different 844 00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:57,439 Speaker 1: layers and levels within psychology, like how how does someone 845 00:52:57,480 --> 00:52:59,920 Speaker 1: know if they need to see a psychologist, a psych 846 00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:04,120 Speaker 1: chiatrist or therapist. That's a good question. I'll start with 847 00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:08,799 Speaker 1: psychiatrists because, uh, psychiatrists have m d s, they have 848 00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:12,279 Speaker 1: medical degrees, they go to medical school and typically not 849 00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:15,439 Speaker 1: always the case, but but overwhelmingly they are the ones 850 00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:19,280 Speaker 1: who are prescribing medication. So you may see your primary 851 00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:23,200 Speaker 1: care doctor who can also prescribe medication. UM. But ideally 852 00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:27,799 Speaker 1: someone who is experiencing severe anxiety or depression. And I 853 00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:30,759 Speaker 1: highlight those because they're the two most common types of 854 00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:35,239 Speaker 1: psychological problems, anxiety and depression. Severe be if I could 855 00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:39,120 Speaker 1: ask that so more severe we we designate severe as 856 00:53:39,160 --> 00:53:42,560 Speaker 1: it's impacting their capacity to do their work, so they 857 00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:44,080 Speaker 1: may not be able to get out of bed and 858 00:53:44,120 --> 00:53:46,680 Speaker 1: take care of children. You know, they were able to 859 00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:49,200 Speaker 1: go to work at one point, but now they just 860 00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:52,440 Speaker 1: don't have the wherewithal and they can't maybe take care 861 00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:55,279 Speaker 1: of themselves. And to be honest, a lot of people 862 00:53:55,320 --> 00:53:58,120 Speaker 1: are having these conversations. But for me, if you're someone 863 00:53:58,239 --> 00:54:01,600 Speaker 1: who has type two diabetes and the doctor has said 864 00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:05,640 Speaker 1: you need to walk fifteen minutes today, um, and you 865 00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:08,799 Speaker 1: need to manage your diet and take your medication for 866 00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:11,480 Speaker 1: your insulin to manage your insulin and that person is 867 00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:17,799 Speaker 1: having considerable problems doing that. They may be depressed, uh, book, 868 00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:21,279 Speaker 1: because I don't think we realize that. Easily fifty percent 869 00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:25,319 Speaker 1: of people who have diagnosed type two diabetes are very 870 00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:29,560 Speaker 1: likely dealing with symptoms of depression. And so we're saying, 871 00:54:29,560 --> 00:54:32,520 Speaker 1: you've got a thing for your physical health, but you're 872 00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:35,359 Speaker 1: mental and emotional health is struggling, and so you can't 873 00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:37,879 Speaker 1: take care of the physical if the mental has its own. 874 00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:43,799 Speaker 1: So that I think, I love thank you so much 875 00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:46,759 Speaker 1: for that you were you were describing for me the 876 00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:53,279 Speaker 1: differences in psychiatry, psychology, and therapy. Yes, so psychiatry m D, 877 00:54:53,560 --> 00:55:00,560 Speaker 1: prescribing medication, uh, Psychology pH D, whether it's clinical or counseling. Uh, 878 00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:03,839 Speaker 1: they have a PhD. Individuals who have PhD understand more 879 00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:07,040 Speaker 1: of the research behind why we do what we do. 880 00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:12,080 Speaker 1: I'll say that again. So people who have PhDs, we're 881 00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:15,160 Speaker 1: in school, uh no, less than six years beyond the 882 00:55:15,239 --> 00:55:19,520 Speaker 1: undergraduate degree, so that we can understand research and oftentimes 883 00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:24,040 Speaker 1: better fit what the person is experiencing. They need to 884 00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:29,960 Speaker 1: repair what they're experiencing. That's that's a really crude overview, 885 00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:34,359 Speaker 1: but I hope that that is hen and therapy. And 886 00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:38,160 Speaker 1: then there are other kinds of providers who oftentimes have 887 00:55:38,239 --> 00:55:42,960 Speaker 1: a master's level degree Masters and social work, licensed mental 888 00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:46,719 Speaker 1: health counselor they go to school. Oftentimes they're in their 889 00:55:46,719 --> 00:55:50,359 Speaker 1: training for about two to three years, uh, and they 890 00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:55,720 Speaker 1: are able to provide psychological care. I know a psychiatric 891 00:55:55,880 --> 00:56:00,440 Speaker 1: nurse at the v A here who is phenomenal um. 892 00:56:00,520 --> 00:56:05,080 Speaker 1: And so people have different types of expertise in different experiences, 893 00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:07,399 Speaker 1: and so that's why it can be hard, and I 894 00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:10,759 Speaker 1: truly understand for the audience how hard it can be 895 00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:15,200 Speaker 1: to figure out, Okay, who do I go and call um? 896 00:56:15,239 --> 00:56:17,479 Speaker 1: And that's why I say someone is looking for care, 897 00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:21,600 Speaker 1: but they at least identify three different individuals to say, Okay, 898 00:56:21,640 --> 00:56:24,440 Speaker 1: I'm gonna call these folks. So if they go to 899 00:56:24,480 --> 00:56:28,279 Speaker 1: a session with the first provider and they say this 900 00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:31,320 Speaker 1: doesn't working out, that they already have two other people 901 00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:34,800 Speaker 1: in the queue so that they don't give up. Folks, 902 00:56:35,200 --> 00:56:39,200 Speaker 1: they see someone and they say therapy doesn't work. Well, 903 00:56:39,239 --> 00:56:42,239 Speaker 1: therapy didn't work with that person doesn't mean that there 904 00:56:42,280 --> 00:56:45,680 Speaker 1: isn't someone out there who is a good fit. Yeah, 905 00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:47,719 Speaker 1: thank you for saying that, because I think you know 906 00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:52,040 Speaker 1: therapy well, all of it. Nothing in life is a monolith, 907 00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:57,440 Speaker 1: so there's always gonna be You're exceptional, you're great, you're good, 908 00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:01,440 Speaker 1: you're solid, you're not so good, you're mediocre, you're awful 909 00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:05,000 Speaker 1: in every field, you know, and people can have the 910 00:57:05,040 --> 00:57:07,799 Speaker 1: exact same degrees and still fall on different you know, 911 00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:12,200 Speaker 1: rungs of that of that tiers, so different tiers. Um. 912 00:57:12,239 --> 00:57:16,000 Speaker 1: So I think that's important to know, and that you 913 00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:19,000 Speaker 1: can also kind of date around, like you can see 914 00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:22,200 Speaker 1: what fits for you. You can potentially ask to schedule, 915 00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:25,920 Speaker 1: you know, like a fifteen minute pre date to see 916 00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:28,760 Speaker 1: if that's like a natural flow or fit. Um. But 917 00:57:28,840 --> 00:57:31,680 Speaker 1: we have options on how to show up for ourselves. Okay, 918 00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:33,880 Speaker 1: last question, because I know I can't hold you. You've 919 00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:38,880 Speaker 1: got busy life, lots of students. UM. I would love 920 00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:41,760 Speaker 1: I would just personally really love to know Dr Rita, 921 00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:48,320 Speaker 1: you know, because I imagine to a certain degree there 922 00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:53,880 Speaker 1: has to be some excitement about this fast paced forward 923 00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:58,160 Speaker 1: movement into an area of your expertise. You know that 924 00:57:58,160 --> 00:58:02,120 Speaker 1: that people are really coming into his new understandings in 925 00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:07,200 Speaker 1: such an urgent way, and um, and your work it 926 00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:10,040 Speaker 1: influences so many people. So I would just love to 927 00:58:10,080 --> 00:58:12,320 Speaker 1: know what you are excited about in your field of 928 00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:17,920 Speaker 1: study right now, UM, and any last thoughts. I really 929 00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:22,240 Speaker 1: am excited that talking about mental and emotional health. And 930 00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:25,200 Speaker 1: in the book I introduced this idea of psychological fortitude 931 00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:28,320 Speaker 1: because people get a little uncomfortable and anti with this 932 00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:30,280 Speaker 1: idea of mental health because we think mental health is 933 00:58:30,280 --> 00:58:33,160 Speaker 1: about being crazy. But in this air of the pandemic, 934 00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:36,480 Speaker 1: people are realizing that they do have to take control 935 00:58:36,680 --> 00:58:39,760 Speaker 1: over their minds and how they're coping and dealing with 936 00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:44,840 Speaker 1: or mistressors. And so I do appreciate that. At the 937 00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:48,440 Speaker 1: same time, I'm hoping that it starts to translate into 938 00:58:48,600 --> 00:58:54,200 Speaker 1: us having more providers UM and more culturally competent providers 939 00:58:55,800 --> 00:59:01,440 Speaker 1: that meet people where they are in competent culturally competent 940 00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:05,000 Speaker 1: UM and adds to that, you know, culturally humble, that 941 00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:09,760 Speaker 1: even providers who are supposedly experts realize that they have 942 00:59:09,920 --> 00:59:15,520 Speaker 1: more learning to do UM and that being a provider 943 00:59:15,640 --> 00:59:17,680 Speaker 1: isn't just a checklist, you know. So I said culturally 944 00:59:17,680 --> 00:59:21,440 Speaker 1: competent because that's a lot of our mainstream language. But 945 00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:23,600 Speaker 1: that suggests that you just you know, maybe you read 946 00:59:23,600 --> 00:59:25,160 Speaker 1: a couple of books and then you go do a 947 00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:28,640 Speaker 1: check mark. No, Um, we need to have the humility 948 00:59:28,720 --> 00:59:32,600 Speaker 1: to say I don't know, I can't get to understand, 949 00:59:32,840 --> 00:59:36,720 Speaker 1: but I'm going to take the initiative to not also 950 00:59:36,800 --> 00:59:38,840 Speaker 1: call up my only black friend and get them to 951 00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:41,400 Speaker 1: train and educate me. But then I'm going to just 952 00:59:41,520 --> 00:59:45,280 Speaker 1: be a more open and aware person to the experiences 953 00:59:45,360 --> 00:59:49,360 Speaker 1: that people from different marginalized groups have. We need more 954 00:59:49,360 --> 00:59:52,960 Speaker 1: of those providers because I keep hearing about folks who 955 00:59:53,120 --> 00:59:55,919 Speaker 1: who are saying, you know what, I think, I need help, 956 00:59:56,160 --> 00:59:58,840 Speaker 1: I'm ready for help, I'm ready to get help, and 957 00:59:59,200 --> 01:00:03,600 Speaker 1: the provider are not there for those folks. UM. So 958 01:00:03,640 --> 01:00:08,080 Speaker 1: that that I am both excited and enthusiastic, and but 959 01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:12,880 Speaker 1: it's it's cautiously so UM because I realized that folks 960 01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:17,240 Speaker 1: aren't always sure of what they're for. And actually, I 961 01:00:17,240 --> 01:00:19,120 Speaker 1: will add this just going back to our last point. 962 01:00:19,440 --> 01:00:21,760 Speaker 1: If you go to your first session and you tell 963 01:00:21,880 --> 01:00:25,760 Speaker 1: the provider therapist whoever they might be, what you're experiencing, 964 01:00:26,160 --> 01:00:30,000 Speaker 1: and you then ask them how would they proceed to 965 01:00:30,080 --> 01:00:33,680 Speaker 1: address your concerns, like what is what is their working 966 01:00:33,800 --> 01:00:37,200 Speaker 1: plan for how they're thinking about what you're experiencing and 967 01:00:37,320 --> 01:00:40,920 Speaker 1: what needs to happen and if what they're saying makes sense, 968 01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:42,800 Speaker 1: then okay, you can hang in there with them for 969 01:00:42,840 --> 01:00:45,200 Speaker 1: a few more sessions, you know, and continue to do 970 01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:48,680 Speaker 1: your activities whatever they're recommending. But if what they're saying 971 01:00:48,720 --> 01:00:51,720 Speaker 1: just doesn't resonate, it's okay to say, okay, thank you, 972 01:00:52,680 --> 01:00:58,720 Speaker 1: bye bye UM to the next person. UM. But I overall, 973 01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:04,320 Speaker 1: I am excited about people's willingness to take stock of 974 01:01:04,360 --> 01:01:07,720 Speaker 1: where they are and to be honest and say, you 975 01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:11,720 Speaker 1: know what, what I'm doing isn't working. We see this 976 01:01:11,880 --> 01:01:16,000 Speaker 1: mass exodus from the workforce that has had some consequences, 977 01:01:16,280 --> 01:01:18,400 Speaker 1: but also what it's saying is that folks are coming 978 01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:21,600 Speaker 1: into a level of awareness. Awareness that is, I don't 979 01:01:21,640 --> 01:01:27,240 Speaker 1: have to take this anymore like, and they are shifting 980 01:01:27,520 --> 01:01:30,040 Speaker 1: to a place of their purpose. Because I think there 981 01:01:30,040 --> 01:01:32,600 Speaker 1: are a lot of us who aren't really functioning in 982 01:01:32,640 --> 01:01:34,720 Speaker 1: our purpose. But we're doing what our parents told us 983 01:01:34,720 --> 01:01:37,160 Speaker 1: we gotta do. I gotta go to college. You know, 984 01:01:37,200 --> 01:01:39,040 Speaker 1: you've got to be a lawyer, a doctor, at least 985 01:01:39,040 --> 01:01:42,960 Speaker 1: That's what I've told UM. You gotta do things, UM 986 01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:45,000 Speaker 1: that may not make sense for us, but our spirit 987 01:01:45,080 --> 01:01:48,520 Speaker 1: is telling us something else. And I hope everyone you know, 988 01:01:48,640 --> 01:01:51,960 Speaker 1: it's just even more encouraged to say, I'm going to 989 01:01:52,120 --> 01:01:56,280 Speaker 1: tap more so into what that little voice is telling 990 01:01:56,320 --> 01:02:02,040 Speaker 1: me and less so into what society, family, friends, other 991 01:02:02,080 --> 01:02:06,720 Speaker 1: people who are themselves conditioned. Um, unless to those conditioned 992 01:02:06,760 --> 01:02:09,760 Speaker 1: people to how they're trying to condition me and speak 993 01:02:09,800 --> 01:02:14,520 Speaker 1: more to to uh that voice within that that voice, 994 01:02:14,520 --> 01:02:16,240 Speaker 1: it will get bigger if we listen to it more. 995 01:02:16,960 --> 01:02:26,360 Speaker 1: Mm hmmm. Yes, Dr Rita Walker, my friend, thank you 996 01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:29,920 Speaker 1: so so so much for joining me today. I just 997 01:02:30,040 --> 01:02:34,120 Speaker 1: celebrate you. I celebrate your work. Your book is in 998 01:02:34,320 --> 01:02:40,080 Speaker 1: stores everywhere, online, everywhere books can be sold. It is incredible. 999 01:02:40,280 --> 01:02:45,520 Speaker 1: I strongly, strongly, highly highly recommend The Unapologetic Guide to 1000 01:02:45,720 --> 01:02:50,640 Speaker 1: Black Mental Health by Dr Rita Walker. It is. Um yeah, 1001 01:02:50,720 --> 01:02:53,040 Speaker 1: it's it's such a it's such a pleasure and a 1002 01:02:53,160 --> 01:02:56,120 Speaker 1: joy to know you. Thank you for your work, thank 1003 01:02:56,120 --> 01:02:58,000 Speaker 1: you for being on this show, and thank you for 1004 01:02:58,040 --> 01:03:01,320 Speaker 1: all you are. Thank you. It's all all of and 1005 01:03:01,440 --> 01:03:04,760 Speaker 1: all mutual debby. I hope you know that that I do, 1006 01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:09,320 Speaker 1: my friend, have amazing day. Um, thank you so much, 1007 01:03:09,720 --> 01:03:15,400 Speaker 1: thank you big. Thank you again to Dr Rita Walker 1008 01:03:15,520 --> 01:03:18,080 Speaker 1: for joining the show today. This episode was a long, 1009 01:03:18,200 --> 01:03:21,200 Speaker 1: long long time coming. Um. You know, I want to 1010 01:03:21,200 --> 01:03:23,320 Speaker 1: revisit the car that I pulled at the beginning of 1011 01:03:23,320 --> 01:03:27,640 Speaker 1: the show, and just based on how your unique heart, mind, 1012 01:03:27,680 --> 01:03:30,960 Speaker 1: and spirit heard this episode, I want to invite you 1013 01:03:30,960 --> 01:03:33,200 Speaker 1: to gently close your eyes for just a moment again, 1014 01:03:33,520 --> 01:03:37,120 Speaker 1: and let's connect to that affirmation and see if it 1015 01:03:37,200 --> 01:03:42,400 Speaker 1: lands any differently, any deeper um or not. Let's just 1016 01:03:42,440 --> 01:03:48,880 Speaker 1: see how it feels now, I gently closed, connecting to 1017 01:03:49,040 --> 01:03:57,000 Speaker 1: your internal world. I am an honest and thoughtful communicator. 1018 01:03:58,760 --> 01:04:06,880 Speaker 1: I am an honorst and thoughtful communicator. I am an 1019 01:04:06,880 --> 01:04:16,000 Speaker 1: honest and thoughtful communicator with myself and others. And breathe 1020 01:04:16,000 --> 01:04:18,400 Speaker 1: into that for a moment. Deep breath in through your nose, 1021 01:04:23,280 --> 01:04:33,040 Speaker 1: holding and release slowly through your nose. Mm hmm. The 1022 01:04:33,120 --> 01:04:35,760 Speaker 1: thing that's coming forward for me a soul work connected 1023 01:04:35,800 --> 01:04:40,800 Speaker 1: to this episode is let's take a moment and notice, 1024 01:04:43,320 --> 01:04:48,960 Speaker 1: are there ways that we can apply that affirmation to 1025 01:04:49,240 --> 01:04:52,960 Speaker 1: some of the depth that came forward from Dr Rita Walker. So, 1026 01:04:53,240 --> 01:04:59,040 Speaker 1: is there perhaps an area where it could be really 1027 01:04:59,200 --> 01:05:04,120 Speaker 1: serving um to speak with honesty, to speak with integrity, 1028 01:05:04,160 --> 01:05:12,360 Speaker 1: to speak with a thoughtfulness, with a care about your 1029 01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:19,520 Speaker 1: experiences or experiences that you're observing. Is there a part 1030 01:05:19,560 --> 01:05:22,600 Speaker 1: of our life that we could stand to be a 1031 01:05:22,640 --> 01:05:26,440 Speaker 1: little more honest, even if it's just in the retelling 1032 01:05:26,480 --> 01:05:30,760 Speaker 1: of how we experience things to ourselves and others. Is 1033 01:05:30,800 --> 01:05:35,400 Speaker 1: there a new kind of more polished layer of honesty 1034 01:05:35,600 --> 01:05:38,200 Speaker 1: we can come forward with, or a clearing that can 1035 01:05:38,240 --> 01:05:43,400 Speaker 1: be done just for your consideration, Just something to think about, 1036 01:05:43,480 --> 01:05:45,960 Speaker 1: and if you feel called, maybe dropped down a couple 1037 01:05:45,960 --> 01:05:48,520 Speaker 1: of bullet points, a couple of thoughts. If you have 1038 01:05:48,600 --> 01:05:51,920 Speaker 1: the space, maybe spend thirty minutes in the park, just 1039 01:05:52,040 --> 01:05:57,000 Speaker 1: kind of observing your right now, your past, the higher 1040 01:05:57,040 --> 01:06:02,280 Speaker 1: intention for your future and how misty, how thoughtfulness might 1041 01:06:02,320 --> 01:06:04,320 Speaker 1: be able to play a role in that or offer 1042 01:06:04,440 --> 01:06:09,200 Speaker 1: some ease or some wisdom or some deepening there. So 1043 01:06:09,800 --> 01:06:14,400 Speaker 1: just a thought. All right, thank you everyone for listening. 1044 01:06:14,720 --> 01:06:17,240 Speaker 1: We will be back next week. Drop that review if 1045 01:06:17,280 --> 01:06:21,680 Speaker 1: you are able. Um, huge, big, big, big, big love. 1046 01:06:22,240 --> 01:06:24,080 Speaker 1: I'm a stake. I'm a stay. I'm a stay. I'm 1047 01:06:24,080 --> 01:06:34,720 Speaker 1: a stay, not a stat Hey find me on social 1048 01:06:34,920 --> 01:06:38,920 Speaker 1: Let's connect at Debbie Brown. That's Twitter and Instagram, or 1049 01:06:39,000 --> 01:06:42,400 Speaker 1: go to my website Debbie Brown dot com. And if 1050 01:06:42,400 --> 01:06:45,800 Speaker 1: you're listening to the show on Apple podcasts, please please 1051 01:06:45,880 --> 01:06:52,320 Speaker 1: please don't forget to rate, review and subscribe, and send 1052 01:06:52,320 --> 01:06:55,640 Speaker 1: this episode to a friend. Dropping JIMS is the production 1053 01:06:55,640 --> 01:06:58,440 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio and the Black Effect Network. It's 1054 01:06:58,480 --> 01:07:01,880 Speaker 1: produced by Jack Queees and me Debbie Brown. For more 1055 01:07:01,960 --> 01:07:05,040 Speaker 1: podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, 1056 01:07:05,240 --> 01:07:08,720 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. 1057 01:07:09,480 --> 01:07:12,080 Speaker 1: M Yeah,