Speaker 1: Amy and TJ present Aubrey o Day covering the Didty trial.
Speaker 1: Hey guys, it's Aubrey O'Day.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to the coverage of the Diddy trial, brought
Speaker 2: to you by TJ and Amy. I am so excited.
Speaker 2: I know I always am excited about my guests, but
Speaker 2: I have a very, very established attorney who has got
Speaker 2: her own show with her husband on iHeartRadio called Legally
Speaker 2: Burnette Emily. I have to say as one single non lawyer,
Speaker 2: but think she is to one very housewifed up attorney
Speaker 2: who is legit.
Speaker 1: I am so happy to finally be talking this case
Speaker 1: with you.
Speaker 2: I really want to get into me a bombshell this week,
Speaker 2: bombshell for the prosecution.
Speaker 3: You know, I'm excited to talk to you too, because
Speaker 3: obviously my husband and I have been covering the trial.
Speaker 3: We do a lot of legal analysis, you know, we
Speaker 3: break it down. We talked about testimony, you know, we
Speaker 3: talk about Rico and what he's actually being charged with
Speaker 3: and whether the prosecution is meeting those burdens. But I
Speaker 3: will tell you it's very interesting for me as a
Speaker 3: lawyer to talk to you because it's not very often
Speaker 3: that I actually get the opportunity to talk to someone
Speaker 3: who has personal experience with a legal issue that we're
Speaker 3: discussing and that we're analyzing.
Speaker 4: So this is a win win for both of us.
Speaker 4: So yes, I agree.
Speaker 1: I can't wait. You can teach me how to catch
Speaker 1: your husband, teach me the law, all right, but we'll
Speaker 1: work on that, okay.
Speaker 2: So with Mia, I just want to first establish two
Speaker 2: days of testimony.
Speaker 1: She still is going to be in cross on Monday.
Speaker 2: We ended today with Brian Steel cross examining her.
Speaker 1: For those that don't know, Brian Steele.
Speaker 2: Is in most cases probably one of the best most
Speaker 2: effective lawyers on Diddy's side, and probably this was one
Speaker 2: of the worst crosses in the entire trial for me personally.
Speaker 2: It ventured over into victim blaming, which at this point
Speaker 2: I think Dawn the therapist is established for the most part,
Speaker 2: everybody's kind of established.
Speaker 1: People that are victims.
Speaker 2: Do go back to their abusers, They do have shame
Speaker 2: in their stories, They do go back to things that
Speaker 2: are familiar in order to just forget and not and
Speaker 2: pretend like it didn't happen, in order to find normalcy again.
Speaker 2: This contact back with abusers, this you know, wanting to
Speaker 2: work back with them or communicate with them. It's a
Speaker 2: nothing burger for me at this point. If that's all
Speaker 2: you have, then you don't have much.
Speaker 3: Well, I would agree with that, and I would say
Speaker 3: that's basically what the defense has, and that's what they're
Speaker 3: going to focus on on every single way forward. It's
Speaker 3: always to be why did you stay, why were you
Speaker 3: there so long? Why did you engage? Why did you
Speaker 3: come back? Why did you keep showing.
Speaker 4: Up for work?
Speaker 3: And I thought it was really important that the prosecution
Speaker 3: did put Dawn on, who I can't remember is she psychiatrists?
Speaker 1: She's a clinic forensic psychology segment.
Speaker 4: Right, and we know she also testified and the ambramber Johnny, Yeah, right,
Speaker 4: So but I thought it was really important that they
Speaker 4: brought her forward.
Speaker 3: And I'm sure you probably agree with that, because that's
Speaker 3: the question that the jury has is why did people
Speaker 3: continue to go back? Why did they stay, why did
Speaker 3: they show up for work the next day? Why did
Speaker 3: they assistance spend years? And so it was important for
Speaker 3: her to come on. But you have your own personal
Speaker 3: experience in that realm as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And for me personally, you know, I was fired
Speaker 2: on national television after years and years of leading up
Speaker 2: this band for being raunchy and promiscuous and bad for business,
Speaker 2: which none was true. I wish at the time we
Speaker 2: were in an era where things like me Too, and
Speaker 2: a lot of movements now that have occurred where you
Speaker 2: can go against corporations and you can sue people for
Speaker 2: wrongful termination, and it is something that feels more available
Speaker 2: to us. Back then, even with parents' lawyers and very
Speaker 2: established lawyers surrounding me, no one gave me that idea.
Speaker 2: And now, of course I'm past the statute of limitations.
Speaker 2: But I have seen what happens when you don't do
Speaker 2: what he wants and you get fired and you get blacklisted,
Speaker 2: and I experienced blacklisting, and I know what that looks like.
Speaker 2: It's very real, the threat that everyone is saying about
Speaker 2: not wanting to be well, I got to the other
Speaker 2: side of it, and it's real. It's actually a real thing,
Speaker 2: and it does happen, and it's humiliating and shameful, and
Speaker 2: half of it I put out of my head, and
Speaker 2: half of it I'll wake up out of my sleep
Speaker 2: sometimes in cringe that I was in that position and
Speaker 2: I didn't understand even that it was all designed just
Speaker 2: to humiliate me a step further?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 3: Wait, I can I ask a question because I think
Speaker 3: this is ironic what I was listening to you talk?
Speaker 3: Weren't you poised as the sexy one?
Speaker 4: Wasn't that? Weren't they? Wasn't it?
Speaker 3: The intent was to establish you as like the pretty
Speaker 3: the sexy one, and then you end up getting fired
Speaker 3: for being like the sexy one?
Speaker 4: Was that the do I?
Speaker 3: Really?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: And also how funny is it I get end up
Speaker 2: being fired for being raunchy and promiscuous and that's.
Speaker 1: Bad for business.
Speaker 2: If it's bad for business, well then did he must
Speaker 2: be really bad for business because we all know that
Speaker 2: he likes a little raunchy and promiscuous At this point.
Speaker 3: Well, it seemed to work well for his business, actually,
Speaker 3: because the fan has done it.
Speaker 4: For years and years and years and years and years
Speaker 4: and is a billionaire.
Speaker 2: And that part right there for me is where I'm
Speaker 2: at with this. I'm very I feel very strong after
Speaker 2: me as testimony about what has been proven, and let
Speaker 2: we'll get into that as we continue, But beyond that,
Speaker 2: I'm really interested in systematic changes. You know, I talked
Speaker 2: about Capricorn's testimony I would have liked it to go
Speaker 2: a little bit further into details of who made payments
Speaker 2: to her, and let's establish a few more people.
Speaker 1: Because there are the trail is.
Speaker 2: You got to remember that this man was still in
Speaker 2: order to stay at the levels and operate at the
Speaker 2: levels of destruction that he was operating at for so long,
Speaker 2: you have to have your pockets continuing to be fed.
Speaker 2: You have to have the whole establishment basically behind you.
Speaker 1: Now, how much.
Speaker 2: People's knowledge of things were is always something that I assess,
Speaker 2: but you know, my first hand knowledge of when I
Speaker 2: was around, there were people that saw plenty of things,
Speaker 2: and plenty of things kind of been stopped by very
Speaker 2: big people. And they continued on. It continued on. They
Speaker 2: fired me, and I even had to go back to
Speaker 2: Reunion and get beat up some more under those same
Speaker 2: terminology statements, everyone knowing damn well that those things aren't true.
Speaker 2: I had to play the character of that, and they
Speaker 2: just allowed me to get lashing after lashing. They created
Speaker 2: a narrative that I could never get up under and
Speaker 2: in fact had to play into for most of my career.
Speaker 2: I am definitely not sexy or pretty in my head.
Speaker 2: I've learned how to be according to society standards, because unfortunately,
Speaker 2: that's the lane that I was left with, and that
Speaker 2: was the only opportunity I had when I left. Everybody
Speaker 2: pretended like there were opportunities and music in there, but
Speaker 2: really all of those turned out to be rooms that
Speaker 2: were built to humiliate and make me walk away in
Speaker 2: very big, deep amounts of shame and feeling like I
Speaker 2: wasn't good enough and like a loser, and not understanding
Speaker 2: that all of that more orchestrated and controlled. And then
Speaker 2: the only person that came to me with a real
Speaker 2: big opportunity was Hugh Hefner to do the cover of Playboy.
Speaker 2: And then that's how you end up going down a
Speaker 2: lane that doesn't necessarily feel like you.
Speaker 1: But there's a lot of limitations in my contract.
Speaker 2: My mom's a good lawyer, so I didn't have to
Speaker 2: show anything I didn't want to show. And you know,
Speaker 2: you in chovern to the pictures that are painted for you.
Speaker 2: I'm sure even as a reality TV person, you've had
Speaker 2: painted pictures of you created either by your cast members
Speaker 2: or by editing or producers. They're all involved, and you've
Speaker 2: had to find ways to sometimes lean in and sometimes
Speaker 2: absolutely establish No.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I would also say when you were going
Speaker 3: through that, that was a different time period. And I
Speaker 3: think that it was now because of all these women
Speaker 3: that have come forward like Cassie and there's been women
Speaker 3: before her, and with the Me Too movement, I think
Speaker 3: women are more empowered now to stand up for themselves
Speaker 3: and to say I'm not comfortable doing that, that's not right.
Speaker 3: The problem is is that this was early two thousands
Speaker 3: for you, right, And I don't think that you had
Speaker 3: anyone advocating on your behalf. And when we talk about
Speaker 3: Diddy and we talk about this trial and we talk
Speaker 3: about the prosecution, you're absolutely right when you say that
Speaker 3: this was a whole network of people that knew what
Speaker 3: was going on. And clearly there were deep pockets, there
Speaker 3: were people being paid, there were people turning away.
Speaker 2: What I loved getting back to the testimony with Mia
Speaker 2: is she is the first witness to establish a different
Speaker 2: pattern of behavior in regards to sexual abuse. This isn't
Speaker 2: a girlfriend, This isn't somebody that wanted to be a girlfriend.
Speaker 2: This is somebody that was an employee. This was somebody
Speaker 2: that was raped in ways where she's in a closet
Speaker 2: packing his suitcase and he's got his dick out and
Speaker 2: forcing it in her mouth.
Speaker 1: Allegedly.
Speaker 2: This isn't the standard freak off staged event that's going on.
Speaker 2: And we're now venturing into other territories of other abusive
Speaker 2: types of behavior. The force is still there, like in
Speaker 2: every other case, the coercion is still there. Basically, everything
Speaker 2: he did, from making her live into in his home,
Speaker 2: the not eating, not not being able, working ridiculous amount
Speaker 2: of days, four or five days straight, all of that
Speaker 2: was very standard.
Speaker 1: We went through that too.
Speaker 2: I mean, to me, I just felt like, this is
Speaker 2: what it is when you are working at.
Speaker 1: This powerful of a level.
Speaker 2: It wasn't until I worked at that powerful of a
Speaker 2: level with that even more powerful essentially sometimes people that
Speaker 2: I realized, oh, these motherfuckers take a lot of breaks.
Speaker 2: Y'all are a little bit late in all honesty. Presidents, sir,
Speaker 2: you're a bit late. You're an apprentice. I mean, the
Speaker 2: work ethic was way different over this side. But I
Speaker 2: learned that actually people do get water and bathroom breaks
Speaker 2: and food at lunch, et cetera. That's was just not
Speaker 2: something that that that.
Speaker 1: We were used to.
Speaker 2: But as far as Mia goes she's a critical witness
Speaker 2: because unlike the other two government victims, this is just
Speaker 2: not a former romantic partner. This is an employee. She
Speaker 2: was sexually abused allegedly. They're victim blaming her on the
Speaker 2: cross and it's not really working for me.
Speaker 1: It absolutely doesn't work.
Speaker 2: You know, you always have to wonder if there's that
Speaker 2: one person in the jury that just doesn't understand. But
Speaker 2: then again, you never know. They always surprise you. As
Speaker 2: kind of what every attorney has always told me along
Speaker 2: the way. Mia, in regards to Rico, I feel she's
Speaker 2: established that in a big way.
Speaker 3: So you because I've worried. My worry in this case
Speaker 3: is establishing Rico.
Speaker 4: So I was.
Speaker 3: Feeling up until this point where you're saying when Mia
Speaker 3: comes in and again I don't know if we establish
Speaker 3: this already, but me as a pseudonym. So that is
Speaker 3: not her real name.
Speaker 1: No, that's not a real name.
Speaker 4: I was wondering if you know who she is?
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, so you know her personally and you've met
Speaker 3: her before or had interactions with her before.
Speaker 4: Yes, And what do you.
Speaker 3: Think I want to know your opinion on this. What
Speaker 3: is do you think is her reasoning for using a
Speaker 3: pseudonym because clearly she's sitting in court across from him.
Speaker 4: He knows who she is.
Speaker 3: I assume it's just to keep her name out of
Speaker 3: the press. However, at some point it's going to be
Speaker 3: released and it's going to get out there. There's no
Speaker 3: way you can keep that secret for a long period
Speaker 3: of time.
Speaker 2: So to me, it's just let me say this. You'd
Speaker 2: be really surprised. I did a search to see how
Speaker 2: easy it was to figure out who she was based off.
Speaker 1: Of just her testimony alone. In regards to her work profile, right,
Speaker 1: it's wiped.
Speaker 4: Oh wow, really.
Speaker 2: It is wiped. It's not on the Revolt site. It's
Speaker 2: completely wiped off of all of that. I have people
Speaker 2: news friends that work for very big news sources that
Speaker 2: all are still don't know who she is. They could
Speaker 2: describe her to me because they're in court seeing her.
Speaker 2: I already know who she is, but I would never
Speaker 2: tell anyone who she is. But I am super impressed
Speaker 2: with how she really has been able to be the
Speaker 2: glue that has connected a lot of these pieces together
Speaker 2: because she provides a different a different experience within the
Speaker 2: same being able to validate Cassie's experiences being able to
Speaker 2: validate a lot of people's experiences also though, being able
Speaker 2: to widen the gap of what an employee witnessed and
Speaker 2: had to go through in that she was carrying drugs,
Speaker 2: she was around criminal behavior constantly, she was assaulted, there
Speaker 2: was force, there was coercion, and there was criminal behavior
Speaker 2: going on allegedly the entire time. And I didn't see
Speaker 2: Brian Steele doing his magic at all. And if anyone
Speaker 2: could be magical in this moment, it would be him.
Speaker 1: He's very good at what he does.
Speaker 3: Right, And you have to remember, just everyone out there listening.
Speaker 3: The prosecution has to prove Rico, which means that they
Speaker 3: have to prove that Diddy worked as a criminal enterprise
Speaker 3: and that he was at the top, and that all
Speaker 3: of his employees were working together for a unified benefit
Speaker 3: of this criminal enterprise. And so far, when you have
Speaker 3: Cassie testifying and you have some personal assistance testifying, it
Speaker 3: was like, I don't know, are we establishing a criminal enterprise?
Speaker 2: What can you Can you explain to me what criminal
Speaker 2: enterprise legally means?
Speaker 1: Can it be?
Speaker 2: Because what I've what I understand about RICO was created
Speaker 2: for the mob families is to take that those situations down.
Speaker 2: But in the past couple of years from what I
Speaker 2: understand that it's really been stretched and utilized in other
Speaker 2: cases in different ways, and you've been able to establish
Speaker 2: smaller corporations run by one big.
Speaker 1: Lead and less people.
Speaker 2: They've been able to utilize it and win in cases
Speaker 2: that don't look as aggressive as a mob case would.
Speaker 2: And so I really want you to explain to the
Speaker 2: audience how small it could actually be and and still
Speaker 2: have this successful RICO charge like exem and and R Kelly.
Speaker 1: Can you can talk about those two.
Speaker 2: R Kelly was that's one person at the top there
Speaker 2: was benefiting from a lot of things that had a
Speaker 2: lot of people around him doing criminal things, moving people,
Speaker 2: and he got charged. So tell me how low the
Speaker 2: bar can be and still get a conviction in regards
Speaker 2: to people.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, it's actually it defines RICO defines and
Speaker 3: enterprise a criminal enterprise. It's actually defined very broadly, which
Speaker 3: is good because we don't want to have a very
Speaker 3: narrow scope on it. And it's really just a business
Speaker 3: or a group of people that are based in criminal activity.
Speaker 3: And really it's you have to have two criminal acts
Speaker 3: within a ten year time period. So I feel like
Speaker 3: there were a check right, check right, exactly, and it's
Speaker 3: for one common just you know, one common unified goal,
Speaker 3: which is Ditty at the top and whatever it is.
Speaker 4: That he can.
Speaker 2: And also the one common, one common thread too is
Speaker 2: who was paying everybody, and that is bad Boy Cassie
Speaker 2: was doing. She said her full time job became being
Speaker 2: a girl in the freak Offs doing sex work, but
Speaker 2: she was paid under bad Boy with the same payment
Speaker 2: that an artist waiting for ten albums to come out
Speaker 2: would be being paid. But she wasn't making albums. She
Speaker 2: was doing sex work and that was expected of her.
Speaker 2: Those payments were coming from bad Boy. MIA's payments were
Speaker 2: coming from bad Boy. Capricorn's were coming from bad Boy. Allegedly,
Speaker 2: all of the abuse was under Diddy and bad Boy
Speaker 2: was his corporation.
Speaker 3: Right, And of course they had kid cutting testify to
Speaker 3: the arson and burglary.
Speaker 1: And kidnapping with Capricorn.
Speaker 3: Exactly, because there you have you're establishing not only is
Speaker 3: there the sex acts and the sex trafficking, but then
Speaker 3: you have the burglary or you have the arson, So
Speaker 3: you're establishing obviously more than two criminal acts within a
Speaker 3: ten year time period.
Speaker 2: So, you know, do you feel that it's been that
Speaker 2: the burden has been met just right now today?
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I mean, I think so it really depends on how
Speaker 3: savvy the jury is. And I really feel like there's
Speaker 3: gonna First of all, we're only in week three of testimony,
Speaker 3: so obviously there's going to be more people that testify,
Speaker 3: and then it really comes down to prosecution when they
Speaker 3: do their closing arguments to actually tie it all together
Speaker 3: for the jury so that they understand how all these
Speaker 3: people were involved, how they were paid, and how they
Speaker 3: were all you in this criminal enterprise for his benefit.
Speaker 3: And I think that they'll be able to do that
Speaker 3: once we have more witnesses.
Speaker 2: Well, what kind of witnesses are you you personally still
Speaker 2: wanting to see because I have to take the jury
Speaker 2: and the possibility that somebody just doesn't get it on
Speaker 2: the jury out of my head because there's so many
Speaker 2: people that don't get it anymore in our society. I'm
Speaker 2: scared to death about that. But if we put all
Speaker 2: of that aside, and you who is credible and understands
Speaker 2: this and understands the testimony.
Speaker 1: And is well versed. What more do you need to see?
Speaker 4: You know, I would like more, I wouldn't.
Speaker 3: I would like security to come forward, bodyguard bodyguards and
Speaker 3: say I protected him, this is what I saw, I
Speaker 3: took these payments.
Speaker 4: I just something, just a little bit more.
Speaker 3: I mean, in my mind, Rico's established. I'm just saying
Speaker 3: on a jury. Have they established it yet? I don't know,
Speaker 3: but we still have weeks of testimony, and obviously I'm
Speaker 3: also it surprises me that you weren't summoned, you know.
Speaker 2: I think because so at there's a piece of my story.
Speaker 2: There's pieces of my story that I can't speak about
Speaker 2: because I have an exclusivity in a different situation. And
Speaker 2: that was done prior to even understanding that any of
Speaker 2: this type of justice was going to be something that
Speaker 2: was available and real in my lifetime.
Speaker 1: So a lot of us went.
Speaker 2: In a direction to hope to seek justice with somebody
Speaker 2: that felt like they were going to get to the
Speaker 2: bottom of it. Now that we're getting it to the
Speaker 2: bottom of it in front of the world that have
Speaker 2: been allowed to do this, you know, but without sharing
Speaker 2: my full story. So it's hard to get into that part.
Speaker 2: But I will say, you'd have to remember. If something
Speaker 2: were to have happened to you, you'd have to remember
Speaker 2: it in order to sit on the stand and discuss it, right,
Speaker 2: So that would be a reason someone would be summoned.
Speaker 2: If somebody witnessed something and you didn't remember it, or
Speaker 2: you had no recollection of it, then you wouldn't necessarily
Speaker 2: be a valuable witness.
Speaker 1: As far as like the beatings and things like that.
Speaker 2: A lot of the stuff that is being spoken about,
Speaker 2: and a lot of the really bad stuff was happening
Speaker 2: during a dirty money era of the run, and that
Speaker 2: was after I was already fired.
Speaker 3: So you're saying a little pre maybe a little your
Speaker 3: experience was before it really started to take off into
Speaker 3: some of.
Speaker 2: These in my opinion, allegedly it was taken off in
Speaker 2: the nineties. But in regards to you know, these are
Speaker 2: very specific criminal charges and you'd have to really be
Speaker 2: able to bolster very specific criminal situations. And I have
Speaker 2: never been a willing participant in anything criminal.
Speaker 3: Okay, let me ask you a question, did you were
Speaker 3: you aware of these alleged I guess they're not alleged
Speaker 3: because they're on tape and we've seen them. But these
Speaker 3: freak offs when you had your experience, was that something
Speaker 3: that you had heard of, that you saw, that you witnessed,
Speaker 3: that you knew about.
Speaker 1: I don't think I can get into that territory, but.
Speaker 2: I believe a lot of people that got close enough
Speaker 2: to that enterprise understood the sexual behavior that was occurring
Speaker 2: around them. It was very It's like they say that
Speaker 2: prison is more gossipy than West Hollywood during the weekends.
Speaker 1: The gays out for brunch during the weekends, and West Hollywood.
Speaker 2: Bad Boy was a gossip mill of and everybody loved
Speaker 2: to share their videos and their times and their experiences
Speaker 2: and their knowledge of things from.
Speaker 1: All sides of it.
Speaker 2: And so, I mean you could see right when this
Speaker 2: came down how many bodyguards came forward and were just
Speaker 2: openly discussing the butt plug size they would buy for him, untildo, this, that,
Speaker 2: this that. I mean, it was like Jesus, like within
Speaker 2: two days you had every bodyguard talking like low level,
Speaker 2: silly gossip stuff that he's not on trial for his sexuality.
Speaker 1: I didn't take what I didn't love.
Speaker 2: That's why I'm nervous about the bodyguard situation, because there
Speaker 2: were so many that have come forward that have been
Speaker 2: in the documentaries and that are also problematic themselves. They
Speaker 2: would have to have been given immunity. I definitely spoke
Speaker 2: to one that was willing to take immunity.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know.
Speaker 2: You don't know what happens beyond your personal interaction with
Speaker 2: Homeland Security. They don't give you information. If they find
Speaker 2: something out, they do not tell you. They don't share information.
Speaker 2: There's nothing that is you're not having like that. They're
Speaker 2: very kind and and and compassionate and good people that are,
Speaker 2: you know, good actors of the law, but they don't
Speaker 2: they don't shed light on your experience for you.
Speaker 3: I know that there is a lot of talk about
Speaker 3: whether they're going to show the Goff videos during the trial.
Speaker 3: Now the question is does that help secution or does
Speaker 3: that hurt the prosecution. I guess it really depends upon
Speaker 3: how much they show what they show, But if they
Speaker 3: show it in a way where people are like, Okay,
Speaker 3: that's crazy, but it's just a bunch of adults that
Speaker 3: consented to this. I've heard that Dinny actually on these videos.
Speaker 3: I don't know if this is true, this is alleged.
Speaker 3: This is what I've heard that he WoT that he
Speaker 3: actually makes a disclaimer in the beginning before any of
Speaker 3: these freak offs start and say, if there's anyone that
Speaker 3: doesn't want to be here, you can leave. So I
Speaker 3: don't know if that's true. That's just allegedly, do you
Speaker 3: know anything about that.
Speaker 2: He clearly was very aware that what he was doing
Speaker 2: was criminal, in my opinion, because he was having Cassie
Speaker 2: set it all up, like if you wanted to pick
Speaker 2: which guys dix and which guy's colors and which guy's
Speaker 2: sizes you liked. Instead of giving her a fucking eight
Speaker 2: page recite, why didn't you just go on the side
Speaker 2: and pick them out and make a phone call. He
Speaker 2: was having her go get the photos, show him the picture,
Speaker 2: show him the people, get the information, go over, give
Speaker 2: her the money.
Speaker 1: She goes and pays. Don't look at him, just do
Speaker 1: what I say.
Speaker 2: But it's like everything was It's like he was always
Speaker 2: passing off the control to other people. Shiit Mia was
Speaker 2: carrying around his drug pit purse allegedly with all of
Speaker 2: his colorful pills in it like it's it's it's like
Speaker 2: every he had to have some knowledge that what was
Speaker 2: going on, in my opinion, Allegedly that was going on
Speaker 2: was was conal was criminal or else, he would have
Speaker 2: been a little bit more hands on and a little
Speaker 2: less like establishing. I don't know how much time and
Speaker 2: the and the man that I knew and understood him
Speaker 2: to be.
Speaker 1: He was on the go, he's moving.
Speaker 2: It's it almost is giving a bipolar jump in personalities
Speaker 2: and moods and shifts and everything.
Speaker 1: It just stand up and go out.
Speaker 2: Don't know if that's drug field, if it's a mental
Speaker 2: health condition, I don't know. Allegedly, whatever it is, it
Speaker 2: was very shifty. But that being said, you'd think that,
Speaker 2: like if someone's that shifty and that on the move,
Speaker 2: that they would just make calls themselves on certain things.
Speaker 1: But he was very careful to not do that. He
Speaker 1: was careful with Cutty to be.
Speaker 2: Out of the house by the time Cutty gets back.
Speaker 2: He's careful at Soho house to tell him what.
Speaker 4: Do you mean right?
Speaker 3: He's also careful that he has someone under his direction
Speaker 3: actually put the cocktail in the car and commit the arson.
Speaker 3: It's not him, He's not the one cutting the convertible open.
Speaker 4: But you know, I thought the same thing as that.
Speaker 2: Jay might have flipped the man who did allegedly and
Speaker 2: you can go down a nice, dark, dirty YouTube hole
Speaker 2: if you'd like to. One night, I'll come over for
Speaker 2: drinks like Little fives moment, except that you are too.
Speaker 2: But but you could go down a nice little YouTube
Speaker 2: tunnel of understanding. Back in the day, people that came
Speaker 2: forward and said that they were prostitutes for Cassie and Puff,
Speaker 2: and they name people that he'd talk to on phone
Speaker 2: calls in front of him allegedly. And when a time
Speaker 2: where people are very charged, I just optics wise, I
Speaker 2: thought certain things would be different. And he was saying
Speaker 2: to me, I was like, has it changed? Do lawyers
Speaker 2: not care about like justice anymore? Is it really just
Speaker 2: about the money grabs? And he's like, you know, it's
Speaker 2: it's both. Some lawyers really want to make money and
Speaker 2: some lawyers really are after that pursuit. You can get
Speaker 2: disenfranchised enough in a career as an attorney when you're
Speaker 2: after the pursuit to stop caring about the pursuit and
Speaker 2: want to fucking you know.
Speaker 1: He's a yeah, he's like some AU.
Speaker 2: I was like, tell me specifically about AAU says, And
Speaker 2: he was like, some aussays are are have got that?
Speaker 2: I don't care what the payment is I want to
Speaker 2: be I want to be in the most prestigious position
Speaker 2: to fight for justice for people. And He's like, and
Speaker 2: some realize that after doing this job for a certain
Speaker 2: period of time, they're going to get a great corporate
Speaker 2: gig that pays a lot of fucking money when they
Speaker 2: settle out and want to go out away from that job.
Speaker 2: I didn't understand from that vantage point, but I was
Speaker 2: trying to get a read on because so much of
Speaker 2: this is going to be about the jury and the lawyers,
Speaker 2: and so little of it is about the people on
Speaker 2: the stand when it all when I watched the Netflix
Speaker 2: special of Ojay's trial, and it was Johnny Cochran and
Speaker 2: all the lawyers basically just tattling on how they manipulated
Speaker 2: everything and everyone to get to the end, and they.
Speaker 1: Were so proud of their legal prowess and being around
Speaker 1: lawyers and some that people.
Speaker 2: Can come in a room and be high fiving someone
Speaker 2: they know is a fucking criminal just because they did
Speaker 2: a better job at convincing everyone in the room.
Speaker 1: That's like, I want to grab my pearls.
Speaker 4: I don't like I know, I agree with you. At
Speaker 4: the end of the day, it comes down to theatrics.
Speaker 4: A lot and a lot of a.
Speaker 3: Trial is nothing more than who is the more convincing attorney,
Speaker 3: who plays the part better, Who does the jury like better,
Speaker 3: who's more likable, who's more attractive.
Speaker 2: The most important part of this entire trial was jury
Speaker 2: selection period. Absolutely, that is the most important part of
Speaker 2: this trial. And imagine how much incredible testimony has been
Speaker 2: has been put on the record during this time period,
Speaker 2: a very short time period, as you said, Yet the
Speaker 2: most important thing was jury selection, and they had some
Speaker 2: very strong people on the defense side choosing juries. And
Speaker 2: of course ausas are very good at what they do
Speaker 2: as well.
Speaker 1: So you just you got a hope.
Speaker 2: But I you know, a more male jury than female
Speaker 2: scares me a bit.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I agree with that.
Speaker 3: You know, let me ask you another question, because there's
Speaker 3: been a lot of talk about this victim number three,
Speaker 3: who supposedly is named Gina, that now they can't find
Speaker 3: to testify.
Speaker 2: She's she's it's not that she can't be found, she's tweeting,
Speaker 2: right from what I From what I understand, she she's
Speaker 2: sent out a tweet just saying she doesn't she wants
Speaker 2: to be private. Now you can go down a YouTube
Speaker 2: spiral again, you can find the interview that she gave
Speaker 2: on a radio show discussing stomping a baby out of
Speaker 2: her paint, trying to pay her for an abortion that
Speaker 2: she willingly had because she didn't want to take his
Speaker 2: money because she loved him. She's more of a soft
Speaker 2: spoken sweet girls. It doesn't seem like she had any
Speaker 2: career aspirations.
Speaker 3: Was she a girlfriend or just someone that she wasn't
Speaker 3: someone that worked? Did she work for him or was
Speaker 3: she a girlfriend?
Speaker 1: No, no, working for him.
Speaker 2: I don't know what to call his girlfriend or not,
Speaker 2: because he just seems to have thrown that around.
Speaker 4: Loosely, right, loosely.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't even know that anyone was a girlfriend
Speaker 2: because I think in order to call someone your girlfriend,
Speaker 2: you have to care for them. And I don't know
Speaker 2: how much consideration was given to any of these people allegedly,
Speaker 2: so I don't love that word. But no, she was
Speaker 2: not working for him. She was not a worker at
Speaker 2: bad Boy. But they are going to establish medical records
Speaker 2: with a victim that is coming up. There was some
Speaker 2: talk in a sidebar that they had about some type
Speaker 2: of medical records and it's being alluded to that there's
Speaker 2: likely going to be a conversation about abortion, that there
Speaker 2: is still a victim that is coming forward and speaking
Speaker 2: that we have not heard from yet.
Speaker 3: I believe that's the is that the Jane, that is
Speaker 3: who they're Jane that's coming up Jane.
Speaker 2: But I think more so what ends up happening in
Speaker 2: a situation like that where somebody gets nervous at the
Speaker 2: at the at the final point because their name is
Speaker 2: about to be out there and they don't want that,
Speaker 2: so they want to then not come, I think a
Speaker 2: way to get because I think if you're subpoena and
Speaker 2: you don't show up, that's you go to jail for that,
Speaker 2: I believe.
Speaker 1: Is that correct?
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's why the defense attorney I.
Speaker 2: Think they didn't pursue it, and I think they didn't
Speaker 2: make a thing because I think that they probably did
Speaker 2: get in touch with the women the women were prop allegedly,
Speaker 2: and the women were probably like, listen, I'm not going
Speaker 2: to help you out if I get.
Speaker 3: Up there, right, and then they don't want to take
Speaker 3: that risk, so it's better to just not.
Speaker 2: You don't want to take a risk if if you
Speaker 2: paid attention in the media, they said one of the
Speaker 2: victims dropped out. She never wanted to participate in any
Speaker 2: of it. She didn't want to talk to onland security,
Speaker 2: she didn't want to be a part of the trial.
Speaker 2: Who leaked that it certainly wasn't the prosecution, It certainly
Speaker 2: wasn't pr for the AUSA. Her publicists or her people
Speaker 2: leaked out that story that she wanted no parts because
Speaker 2: she probably wanted to signal whoever to let them know
Speaker 2: I wasn't going to tell on you.
Speaker 3: Daddy, right exactly? So what else did you really allegedly?
Speaker 3: What else did you take away from me as testimony
Speaker 3: that you thought was interesting or was compelling for you?
Speaker 1: Shit? Let mean, oh well, here's just a sidebar.
Speaker 2: It's becoming very obvious that he paid women way less
Speaker 2: than he paid men. George Kaplan was given six figures.
Speaker 2: Capricorn and Mio were both paid her on I think
Speaker 2: they said forty thousand, fifty thousand. That was interesting, and
Speaker 2: they also were all harassed and abused.
Speaker 3: I had a question to ask you because you have
Speaker 3: personal experience with them, and I thought this is random,
Speaker 3: but I found this interesting that I think on two
Speaker 3: different occasions it has come up in testimony that I
Speaker 3: think it was Gina, but I don't. It wasn't Gina testifying,
Speaker 3: but it was someone testifying to an incident where apparently
Speaker 3: Diddy threw apples at Gina, and then Mia was testifying.
Speaker 3: I believe yesterday that he through spaghetti at her, and
Speaker 3: I just was like, it was the food items that I.
Speaker 4: Thought, and there were a god and they okay, right,
Speaker 4: and I was like, allegedly allegedly, but what is that?
Speaker 4: Is that a form of humiliation or a lack of.
Speaker 3: Any type of control at all, that no matter what
Speaker 3: is on the surface of a countertop, that you will
Speaker 3: just reach for it and assault someone.
Speaker 2: Yeah, basically, yeah, I don't Maybe he just happened to,
Speaker 2: you know, eat more than he ever let us eat.
Speaker 1: But I don't know.
Speaker 2: Maybe there just was food was the most readily available
Speaker 2: thing around. Maybe it has to do with comdowns or
Speaker 2: come ups and when you're hungry and when your moods
Speaker 2: get bad and when they who knows, But there's no
Speaker 2: I don't think there's anything specific.
Speaker 1: To the food being thrown. It just happened to have
Speaker 1: been what was there.
Speaker 3: I just found that interesting that in this testimony, like
Speaker 3: food keeps coming up.
Speaker 2: It was like, well, we certainly didn't have any when
Speaker 2: we worked for it, So I'm glad somebody was being
Speaker 2: said somebody's somebody's getting spaghetti. At this point, I don't
Speaker 2: see any possible way after this testimony that twelve people
Speaker 2: unanimously agree to acquit him.
Speaker 1: I don't see it happening at all.
Speaker 2: How do you feel, I don't even see a path
Speaker 2: for twelve people acquitting him on all charges. It's not
Speaker 2: even I don't even see it at all.
Speaker 1: You're the one with a degree. Do you see any
Speaker 1: lane for that?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 4: I don't.
Speaker 3: I think I think the testimony has been too compelling.
Speaker 3: I think the repetition of the repeated behaviors. It's not
Speaker 3: like he got drunk one night and you know he
Speaker 3: went all he went off the rails, which can happen
Speaker 3: to people. I think it's a long established, repeated behavior,
Speaker 3: over and over and over, and it goes down. I mean,
Speaker 3: it boils down to the fact that he's a cruel
Speaker 3: man's it's cruelty. It's about power, it's about corrosion, it's
Speaker 3: about it. It's evil, it's cruel and I think I
Speaker 3: don't think the jury can get past that.
Speaker 1: Can you give the definition legally in Layman's terms.
Speaker 2: I suppose for the audience about what coercion is, because
Speaker 2: half the people I talk to can't even say the
Speaker 2: word correctly, and I think people just are too embarrassed
Speaker 2: to ask.
Speaker 1: I don't really know what that means.
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, I don't know. If I could give.
Speaker 2: The chattypt it my CHATGYPG loves me it gets back
Speaker 2: to there.
Speaker 3: I mean, i'd have to actually google. The legal definition
Speaker 3: of coersion.
Speaker 2: Is the legal definition of coercion, Okay, The legal definition
Speaker 2: of coercion generally refers to the use of force, threats,
Speaker 2: or intimidation to compel someone to act against their will.
Speaker 2: Key elements of coercion threat or use of force.
Speaker 1: They've proved it.
Speaker 2: Lack of con lack of consent. They've proved it intent.
Speaker 2: The perpetrator intends to control or manipulate the person the
Speaker 2: victim's decision making.
Speaker 1: That's there.
Speaker 2: They've proved that resulting action the victim performs in act
Speaker 2: or refrains from one that they otherwise wouldn't have done freely.
Speaker 2: They've proved all key elements of coersion with multiple witnesses.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, And even when people are acting as the defense
Speaker 3: would claim willingly because they're showing up or they're carrying things,
Speaker 3: or they're carrying out these these demands. If they claim,
Speaker 3: like with free will, there isn't free will. You know
Speaker 3: that there's no free will. You know that there's repercussions later.
Speaker 2: I don't know that I've ever really had free will
Speaker 2: my entire career. Sadly, if you made me think for
Speaker 2: a second as you were saying that, I definitely could
Speaker 2: like bob my head, yes for them making the band aids.
Speaker 2: But there's always somebody controlling your narrative. And as you
Speaker 2: get further, I mean, I've been doing this since I
Speaker 2: was a kid, and I'm forty one now, so over
Speaker 2: two decades I've been in the industry and haven't had
Speaker 2: another job. There is always somebody bigger than the person
Speaker 2: you thought was the biggest.
Speaker 1: There is always some uniform plan.
Speaker 2: There is always a schedule and a time and a
Speaker 2: place and the right thing to say and the right
Speaker 2: person to say it. And when you get your shot,
Speaker 2: you go, and if you don't, you don't. And I
Speaker 2: don't know that I've ever just been People see me
Speaker 2: as someone that is so confident and they love to
Speaker 2: jump on the train the second that this all came
Speaker 2: down and say, Aubrey told us so. She told us
Speaker 2: so for twenty years. She's been telling us he was
Speaker 2: a dangerous person. He wasn't somebody that was safe to
Speaker 2: work for. And like that's great and all. And I
Speaker 2: guess that whatever has decided that I am somebody that
Speaker 2: is going to be a voice. I mean, I'm a
Speaker 2: voice right now on this platform for this.
Speaker 1: But I don't know how free the will is of anything, really, because.
Speaker 2: A lot of times I feel the system already has
Speaker 2: decided things. So I just like, I think the jury
Speaker 2: is a piece of this puzzle. That is just who
Speaker 2: they are as people and how they are going to
Speaker 2: interpret the information that they have been given. They are
Speaker 2: just going to interpret it as so we can't really
Speaker 2: make a call for them. I mean, I know that
Speaker 2: they give you jury instructions. I've never personally sat on
Speaker 2: a jury, but I think you have to be able
Speaker 2: to like check off boxes yes or no, to like
Speaker 2: walk you to an answer if you're having a problem.
Speaker 2: So they will have to hold themselves a bit accountable.
Speaker 2: I'm assuming, but I don't know. You know, I didn't
Speaker 2: there was no part of me that thought oj didn't
Speaker 2: kill on Nicole, but yet he wasn't convicted.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's mind blowing.
Speaker 1: Let me tell let's talk about a world where that happens. Now.
Speaker 2: You know, one thing I've had a little slight fear
Speaker 2: of is and I've made a clear in documented form
Speaker 2: just in case it happened, so that the record could
Speaker 2: show I was right again. But it worries me that
Speaker 2: politics and entertainment tend to mirror each other pretty pretty closely.
Speaker 2: We've seen a lot of things happening politically lately that
Speaker 2: are like chalking. Whether you like someone or don't like someone,
Speaker 2: there's a lot of movements that are just like what chaotic?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I did not think that that could happen, whether
Speaker 1: I like you or not. I didn't think all that
Speaker 1: could happen.
Speaker 2: Now over here, What if there's a scenario where I
Speaker 2: didn't think that that could happen. In the beginning, before
Speaker 2: MIA's to me, I am standing steady on ten toes
Speaker 2: after Mia. Before Mia, I thought maybe the prosecution might
Speaker 2: feel they get to a place where they've proven one,
Speaker 2: three and four but not two and five, and they
Speaker 2: might give a plea and we might see a trial
Speaker 2: this big and a person this big take a plea,
Speaker 2: and what the jury felt doesn't really even matter, because
Speaker 2: they can all the way up until the jury comes back,
Speaker 2: if they feel that there's any point that they're losing on,
Speaker 2: they can offer a plea. And that's not something that
Speaker 2: I think anyone sees reg and so they don't necessarily
Speaker 2: even understand that that is a possibility.
Speaker 3: It's a possibility, but I'll tell you just based upon
Speaker 3: the little that I know of him, I don't think
Speaker 3: he would take a plea deal.
Speaker 2: Well, he didn't take the first one, but I think
Speaker 2: after me he should start considering it.
Speaker 1: It's looking pretty bad.
Speaker 3: But when someone has been in the world that he's
Speaker 3: been in, with people catering to his every whim, you
Speaker 3: don't think like a rational, reasonable person. You think that
Speaker 3: you're always going to win and you're always going to
Speaker 3: get away with it.
Speaker 1: I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't even think he's had enough time to process
Speaker 2: the level of colossal destruction that he has created across
Speaker 2: so many lives. I don't even think he started at
Speaker 2: that yet, because he was still in court in the
Speaker 2: very beginning, having his lawyers fight to get Cassie's husband
Speaker 2: taking out talking about the husband sent him threatening messages
Speaker 2: threatening him twenty however, many years ago, threatening him that
Speaker 2: you know, after he found out what happened to Cassie,
Speaker 2: and my client's life was threatened, so he can't be
Speaker 2: in court next to him. Are you fucking kidding me?
Speaker 2: There's not a day in Diddy's life that he was
Speaker 2: scared of Alex.
Speaker 1: Fine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a maneuver to get to make Cassie
Speaker 2: weaker and to not be able to have somebody to
Speaker 2: connect with on that stand in my opinion, and I think,
Speaker 2: you know, that's a good lawyering move, but a shitty
Speaker 2: moral move, which is why again I don't love lawyers
Speaker 2: that are big defense criminal defense lawyers and situations like this,
Speaker 2: it's an icky.
Speaker 1: I respect them because they're really good at what they do.
Speaker 2: The eight pack of white women was effective racially. I
Speaker 2: know a lot of people that were like, why all
Speaker 2: white women? That's not a good look. I don't like
Speaker 2: the way this feels. I felt it even and I
Speaker 2: was scared to say it, but I was like, I mean,
Speaker 2: it shouldn't come down to race. It should come down
Speaker 2: to who's most qualified to take on a case.
Speaker 4: But Optics are everyone.
Speaker 1: I know, well, optics are everything in a courtroom. Everyone.
Speaker 2: When they saw Cassie's pregnant belly, everyone was like, damn it,
Speaker 2: he'd better come with more than gray hair.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, the defense made a motion that they
Speaker 3: didn't want Cassie.
Speaker 1: Them to be able to see her belly.
Speaker 4: Yes, they wanted her seated before the jury came into.
Speaker 2: I know, there were a lot of little tactics that
Speaker 2: showed me, Okay, he's still either the lawyers are just.
Speaker 1: Really good in telling him what to do.
Speaker 2: I don't know the fact that he's throwing love hearts
Speaker 2: and all of that bullshit. Still like, I just can
Speaker 2: you show us a signal of accountability so if you
Speaker 2: do get off on anything, like, all the people that
Speaker 2: have been in your path of destruction can feel like
Speaker 2: safe staying alive on this earth.
Speaker 4: Here's another question, And I feel like this maybe.
Speaker 3: Feeds into his narcissism or ego or whatever you want
Speaker 3: to call it.
Speaker 4: The fact that he has his children sitting in the courtroom.
Speaker 2: I already said this on the very first podcast is mind.
Speaker 4: Boggling to me, mind boggling.
Speaker 2: What I've asked every type of every time race age
Speaker 2: range of man that I know, would you want your
Speaker 2: would you want or even allow if it meant you
Speaker 2: could look better in front of a jury? Would you
Speaker 2: let your daughters hear about how you were slipping, slurping,
Speaker 2: slapping and popping it off every which.
Speaker 1: Way in the freak offs?
Speaker 2: And every single man that I've spoken to, every single race,
Speaker 2: every single age range, was like absolutely not no, zero no.
Speaker 1: For me, I think it's a choice.
Speaker 3: Yes, and would you not be completely embarrassed? And that's
Speaker 3: what makes me think that this is truly someone who's
Speaker 3: so narcissistic that they have no concept of what they've
Speaker 3: done that they would allow their children and their mom.
Speaker 3: What's his mom like eighties something or I don't know,
Speaker 3: like his elderly mom to be.
Speaker 2: You have you done any research on his mom and
Speaker 2: what her work was and things like that.
Speaker 3: I don't know anything about his mom. Is that another
Speaker 3: rabbit hole that I need to go down?
Speaker 4: I'm laying in.
Speaker 2: Bed, probably allegedly probably allegedly, Okay, all right, but I
Speaker 2: think you know, I think for me, and this is sound,
Speaker 2: this is going to sound crazy because I don't even
Speaker 2: think it's a smart legal thing to do. But he's
Speaker 2: so down and out with the testimony. At this point,
Speaker 2: I feel all of the key things have been established,
Speaker 2: from racketeering to sex trafficking to definitely possessing people across
Speaker 2: state lines.
Speaker 1: Those are all five counts.
Speaker 2: I think at this point you need to tell a
Speaker 2: very strong tale of how hurt people hurt people. I'm
Speaker 2: gonna need to know how he was hurt and why
Speaker 2: he hurt others, and I still would have to call
Speaker 2: him guilty because the facts of the crimes are the
Speaker 2: facts of the crimes.
Speaker 1: But at least if.
Speaker 2: I heard, maybe if I were a jury member that
Speaker 2: doesn't understand facts and crimes, if you told me why
Speaker 2: this hurt person hurt people and his hurt was so
Speaker 2: deep that.
Speaker 1: It fucked me up.
Speaker 2: Those are the times where I've had sympathy for him
Speaker 2: along the way prior to getting into everyone's testimony, just
Speaker 2: based off of my general assessment of the time that
Speaker 2: I was in and knowledge of the times where I
Speaker 2: was not in but had very reliable people that were
Speaker 2: in it along the way telling me everything.
Speaker 3: So you're saying the only way that you would feel
Speaker 3: any ounce of sympathy is if there was some testimony
Speaker 3: that went to him being hurt so severely.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm I was able to have sympathy
Speaker 1: at the beginning of the trial. I'm not getting it anymore.
Speaker 1: It's not in me. No, no, no, I'm out none none.
Speaker 2: Now we're now, we're getting into territory where the alleged
Speaker 2: sexual assaults are looking different than staged events.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're looking just.
Speaker 2: Like as also Cassie alleged rape. That scares me deeply
Speaker 2: for all the unknowns in my own life.
Speaker 1: U we're breaking patterns.
Speaker 2: Now, we're going into territories that are different, and that
Speaker 2: concerns me.
Speaker 1: I've lost the.
Speaker 2: Compassion card in the beginning when you have eighty civil
Speaker 2: suits and a lot of chaos, and I know some
Speaker 2: a good amount of the players, and I know you know.
Speaker 2: I had a bandmate that took the stand and it
Speaker 2: was heavily reported that she was inconsistent and a lot
Speaker 2: of her testimony. You know, I've known her to be inconsistent.
Speaker 2: So imagine prior to all of this, knowing I believe
Speaker 2: this person is inconsistent in the experiences that I've had
Speaker 2: with her, unfortunately a good amount.
Speaker 4: So did you think did you think her testimony helped
Speaker 4: her hurt the prosecution.
Speaker 2: I think it did nothing if I'm being nice, If I'm.
Speaker 1: Being like you, judge, it hurt a little.
Speaker 2: It was the wrong It was the wrong thing right
Speaker 2: after Cassie to have somebody. The thing that I didn't
Speaker 2: love is the inconsistencies came within the depositions that the
Speaker 2: prosecution took. They didn't even have to bring up anything
Speaker 2: on her that they may have had.
Speaker 3: Right, So you're saying, why bring it up if it's
Speaker 3: going to be an inconsistent statement, and then your witnesses
Speaker 3: doesn't look credible in court, and Cassie.
Speaker 2: Was believable to everybody that left the.
Speaker 1: Court room and talked to me.
Speaker 2: So I don't think we needed and we didn't need
Speaker 2: to double down on the fact that she got hit
Speaker 2: because there's a video of her beatings. Everybody knows what
Speaker 2: the beating looks like. We can't get it out of
Speaker 2: our souls.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what's your take on that video? Who do you
Speaker 3: think leaked it? Do you think it was someone in.
Speaker 2: I can't see on the hotel side, I can't say.
Speaker 4: Well, here's what's interesting.
Speaker 1: Is that there is a group of us.
Speaker 2: I keep trying to get them to be able to
Speaker 2: be on the podcast with me, you know, because this
Speaker 2: started almost about two years ago. For a lot of us,
Speaker 2: and all the things that people were being shocked by
Speaker 2: in the past two years, we knew very.
Speaker 4: Long lin some of them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, some of it we've known since we've been there.
Speaker 2: Other things we've known when down, dude, we know every
Speaker 2: graphic detail. No, but we knew plenty of I knew
Speaker 2: a few of the prostitutes.
Speaker 1: I knew the person that owns the place it was
Speaker 1: giving the.
Speaker 2: Prostitutes to the that they were calling. I knew one
Speaker 2: of the prostitutes was in prison. It was on Jigglos allsurely.
Speaker 4: The guy that killed his girlfriend.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he said he told them no, it's not true.
Speaker 2: But then his face was up on.
Speaker 1: That posterboard in court and I was like, that's into Wait,
Speaker 1: are you.
Speaker 4: Talking about the what's the guy's name then or whatever?
Speaker 4: The bald guy or you take.
Speaker 1: A guy from Jigglos.
Speaker 4: Well, there was two guys that were up there from Jigglos.
Speaker 2: I think the other guy did an interview talking about
Speaker 2: he was on deck for it but never got called. Basically,
Speaker 2: stop interviewing. No one gives a fuck stop inserting yourself
Speaker 2: in a moment that isn't about you, which is technically
Speaker 2: how I felt about, like even.
Speaker 1: Doing this podcast. I didn't want to do it.
Speaker 2: I was saying no for a very long time. In
Speaker 2: the ninth inning, it got presented to me in a
Speaker 2: different fashion, and then I felt a little bit more.
Speaker 1: I learned a little bit more about the.
Speaker 2: Personal side of things that I'm still trying to figure out,
Speaker 2: and that frustrated me. And then this people came to
Speaker 2: me on this side and told me a way to
Speaker 2: do this that felt more credible and less like Wendy Williams.
Speaker 3: Even though I love Wendy, you mean less less gossipy,
Speaker 3: tabloidy more.
Speaker 2: I didn't really you know, I don't want to sit
Speaker 2: on a podcast every day and be interviewed about the dark,
Speaker 2: evil ways I established in the very beginning. I don't
Speaker 2: have an ending that I want to see at the
Speaker 2: end of this. As more testimony goes on, I'm getting
Speaker 2: a little more heated.
Speaker 1: I gotta be real with you.
Speaker 2: I have to like pace myself in between these podcasts
Speaker 2: and make sure that I come back down to a
Speaker 2: place where my biases aren't popping up because I have them,
Speaker 2: I said it day one.
Speaker 1: I can't not have them. My entire life turned out.
Speaker 2: To be something different than what it would have been
Speaker 2: had I never met him. He course shifted my life.
Speaker 2: He course shifted many people's lives. He not only course
Speaker 2: shifted my life, he course shifted my understanding of myself
Speaker 2: as a woman, which likely course shifted all the men
Speaker 2: that I chose to date in life and how I
Speaker 2: found myself valuable. Like I said, I was a nerd,
Speaker 2: I was into the law.
Speaker 1: I was a geek.
Speaker 2: I didn't really have a lot of friends. All of
Speaker 2: a sudden, I was the looker. There was a lot
Speaker 2: of pressure in that my toenails had to be perfect
Speaker 2: when I walked into a room or else I would
Speaker 2: get berated. I didn't even think about my toenails before that, right,
Speaker 2: you know. I learned to groom myself properly and look
Speaker 2: certain ways and be certain ways. And when it was
Speaker 2: just when I disappointed him, I felt like I was ugly.
Speaker 2: And then for my whole life, I've been a fucking tabloid,
Speaker 2: A tabloid character to say I'm either obese, I'm this,
Speaker 2: I'm a plastic surgery nightmare that ass is fake or
Speaker 2: tits are fake. She photos or shops herself in fucking vacation,
Speaker 2: she's this, she's that. I can't fucking breathe without being
Speaker 2: attacked for that looker card that did he put on me.
Speaker 2: And I didn't give two fucks about the way I looked.
Speaker 2: I was into the law. Yeah, I was a geek.
Speaker 1: I read, I have books. I don't even I haven't
Speaker 1: had sex in two years.
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm you could be both. You could be
Speaker 4: sexy and smart at the same time.
Speaker 1: Though.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And by the way, as I get older, i'm
Speaker 2: when I choose to embrace those things. Therefore, me and
Speaker 2: I come at them with confidence. And it's my own confidence,
Speaker 2: it's not the confidence that was derived by.
Speaker 1: A interpretation of me.
Speaker 2: But I will say, all the way up even toil
Speaker 2: last year, I'm I was working non stop last year,
Speaker 2: everybody wanted.
Speaker 1: To book a ditty victim.
Speaker 2: And I'm not allowed to say things like that, because
Speaker 2: I should be grateful that I got opportunities to sing again,
Speaker 2: to be on TV shows again, that neck works grace
Speaker 2: me with their presence, But they really wanted to push
Speaker 2: that diddy victim shit.
Speaker 1: And then there were some that I.
Speaker 2: Openly and honestly like felt and trusted. There's one coming
Speaker 2: out that I felt safe with and trusted, and in
Speaker 2: that scenario, they got me. On the indictment day on camera,
Speaker 2: I met the man on camera and I learned of
Speaker 2: his indictment on in front of the world.
Speaker 1: I haven't had.
Speaker 2: A moment to form myself off of a camera, and
Speaker 2: so long I don't. Sometimes when I'm not on a camera,
Speaker 2: I don't really know what the fuck life is.
Speaker 1: My dogs and one of them just passed sadly.
Speaker 3: Can I tell you something that you just said that
Speaker 3: I wish I could turn my camera because I literally
Speaker 3: have two dogs laying right behind me right now.
Speaker 1: I love it.
Speaker 4: I feel like we're the same heart. They're all rescues.
Speaker 4: I have three purebread rescues, so.
Speaker 1: They have a rescue too. He's still alive.
Speaker 3: I lost a Pomeranian a couple of years ago. It
Speaker 3: was like the worst heartbreak of my entire life. He
Speaker 3: was twelve years old. I still haven't recovered. Then I've
Speaker 3: got a German Shepherd rescue, I've got a cattle dog rescue,
Speaker 3: and then I've got like a little pit bull mix
Speaker 3: somewhere around here.
Speaker 4: Rescue.
Speaker 3: So I have dogs and I read books all the
Speaker 3: time and I'm a huge nerd.
Speaker 2: So Amy said that we would get along fantastically, you
Speaker 2: know what I said.
Speaker 1: I was like, I was like, she's a housewife. I
Speaker 1: don't know.
Speaker 2: She's like, no, she's smart, she's savvy, like blah blah blah.
Speaker 2: And then I was like, I saw she sent me
Speaker 2: your picture, and I'm like, she's beautiful. So now you're
Speaker 2: gonna have two white bitches talking about a case where
Speaker 2: there have been implications that there are racially charged situations
Speaker 2: occurring by whoever the fuck is race baiting in that situation.
Speaker 2: And like, for me, I was like, optics wise, don't
Speaker 2: I don't love that. And I just I'm so happy
Speaker 2: that I didn't run with the optics card because you're
Speaker 2: so great and you understand all of this so well,
Speaker 2: and this has been so refreshing, and this is a
Speaker 2: work in progress type of show, you know, Like I
Speaker 2: don't want to be a journalist, I don't want to
Speaker 2: be a podcaster. I don't even really want to be
Speaker 2: in the industry anymore. I was definitely sliding on my
Speaker 2: way out and moving on, and I was definitely gonna
Speaker 2: be like out of the country and on vacation during
Speaker 2: this trial and finding the piece that I needed within.
Speaker 1: But as I go episode through episode.
Speaker 2: And meet new people along the journey, and some like you,
Speaker 2: I'm just absolutely falling in love with. I think as
Speaker 2: I go further in it, I'm learning. I'm learning more
Speaker 2: about why this is, this project has the purpose that
Speaker 2: I was told it would have.
Speaker 3: Well, I think from my perspective looking at you in
Speaker 3: the way that you speak about it, you know when
Speaker 3: I when I talk about it with my husband and
Speaker 3: we do it. It's just straight from a legal perspective.
Speaker 3: And it's very linear because I only I don't know him,
Speaker 3: I don't have personal experience.
Speaker 2: All the podcasts are linear, and this is the only
Speaker 2: one offering something different exactly.
Speaker 3: And I think maybe and I understand you not wanting
Speaker 3: to go into it, not wanting to talk about it,
Speaker 3: trying to protect yourself, protect your emotions.
Speaker 2: And contracts and everything. I have so much fucking pressure
Speaker 2: on my shoulders and I have other jobs that I'm
Speaker 2: not doing. I mean fashion, Noah has not seen a
Speaker 2: post in a few weeks.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get fires a brand ambassador.
Speaker 4: Miss you got to get your outfits together, get your
Speaker 4: content together. What do you want.
Speaker 2: Looking at this many papers of notes, analyzing testimony and
Speaker 2: figuring out how everything works.
Speaker 3: I know I do the same thing. I spend so
Speaker 3: much time doing legal research. It's insane, but I love
Speaker 3: it like I enjoy it.
Speaker 4: Do you enjoy it? Because I enjoy it? That's how
Speaker 4: I know I'm a huge nerd.
Speaker 2: When the narrative started to shift in regards to where
Speaker 2: Puff's behavior is starting to shift into other areas besides
Speaker 2: these you know, dramatic events, you know, I'm getting a
Speaker 2: little it's getting a little more personal, little more upsetting, and.
Speaker 1: I just the the I can't.
Speaker 2: I don't know why I had to have my life
Speaker 2: intersect with his. I think everybody that has ever been
Speaker 2: close enough with him that you know, when they were
Speaker 2: criticizing her, when Brian was saying, oh, you said you
Speaker 2: love him in this text, I was like, I've.
Speaker 1: Told Puff I love him before.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we all loved him, and yet we were all
Speaker 2: traumatized by him, and yet we all found ourselves.
Speaker 1: I finished a TV show that did a number.
Speaker 2: On me last year, and I walked out and called
Speaker 2: my agent and I was like, days like this I
Speaker 2: literally miss Puff because he would have never allowed any
Speaker 2: of these fucking ignorant ass people that are younger than
Speaker 2: me professionalist fuck letting stupid ship fly on set, not
Speaker 2: following HR policies like it was a hot fucking mess
Speaker 2: of debacley going on and not even like properly produced,
Speaker 2: if that's what y'all are trying to do.
Speaker 1: Messy as fuck.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Puff would have had put everybody's ass would have
Speaker 2: been in line, everybody, he would have been scared, everybody
Speaker 2: would have had their get right on, and nobody would
Speaker 2: have ever come to set with sleep in their eyes.
Speaker 2: Half the fucking cast had crust in their eyes. And
Speaker 2: for me, I was just like the discipline that I
Speaker 2: had back in those days. I would like I would
Speaker 2: come to set work all of it because it was
Speaker 2: all those things right, cameras up, and it was my job,
Speaker 2: and I had to perform and sing in the studio
Speaker 2: everywhere me was my job. I'd have to wake up
Speaker 2: with cameras in front of me, get ready with cameras.
Speaker 1: In front of me.
Speaker 2: Everything was always had to be so perfect with him
Speaker 2: that I'm so disciplined that even on sets nowadays, the
Speaker 2: whole cast had The commentary they had about me when
Speaker 2: they didn't know me.
Speaker 1: Was She's always so she was always just so put together.
Speaker 2: She always just like she comes down in the morning,
Speaker 2: it's like, girl, we're all in pj's, Like you're in
Speaker 2: an outfit with your hair done and your makeup on. Yeah,
Speaker 2: we're literally filming a TV show that lasts for like
Speaker 2: two weeks. Can none of you guys, I didn't even
Speaker 2: hear a shower go off this morning.
Speaker 1: None of you are even washed. Like, I don't understand that.
Speaker 4: Thank you.
Speaker 1: If that's why you dislike me, thank you.
Speaker 2: That's a compliment that to the type of discipline that
Speaker 2: PUFF put me under. However, what I'm learning is maybe
Speaker 2: that side of me is also a little unhealthy because
Speaker 2: I am constant in that presentation mode and everything that
Speaker 2: I do in life until I go to sleep that
Speaker 2: I don't necessarily you know. Fuck, the one fucking time
Speaker 2: that I was like, oh and I was, I did
Speaker 2: not look like the pictures. I'll stay I'll say that
Speaker 2: for the rest of my life. But the one time
Speaker 2: I was cause slipping no outfit on, looking like shit
Speaker 2: heavy during COVID, not as heavy as the photos, but
Speaker 2: heavy during COVID and slipping uh. That turned into a
Speaker 2: goddamn nightmare, made me lose a million fucking jobs, made
Speaker 2: me this big fucking loser that's lost at all. You
Speaker 2: can't even google me without seeing those photos. And I
Speaker 2: have been on Broadway to Playboy, to having my own
Speaker 2: television show, to doing every other reality TV.
Speaker 1: Show on the fucking Earth, to the podcast. Now.
Speaker 2: I don't know, Alane, that I haven't entered. I've literally
Speaker 2: done all of it really well and have platinum albums.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but what sucks, as you're saying, I google you,
Speaker 3: which I've never done. But if I google you right now,
Speaker 3: the fat photos are gonna shut up.
Speaker 2: You'll get fat photos, you'll get Trump Junior, you'll get
Speaker 2: poly d and you'll get puff every fucking man or
Speaker 2: ugly time. And by the way, there's not several fat photos.
Speaker 2: There's that one whole selection of that one moment in time.
Speaker 3: But that one time period, a one isolated event, and
Speaker 3: that's all that's out there.
Speaker 2: One isolated event is now summarized me and every and
Speaker 2: do you know like what that does to someone that's
Speaker 2: been trained by Puff. It's like you might as well
Speaker 2: just kill yourself. You just fucking lost the.
Speaker 1: Ball, bitch.
Speaker 2: Now it's it's like that's the type of pressure that
Speaker 2: that we learned as a kid. At one point, my
Speaker 2: bandmate passed Danity Kine. I had a band with another
Speaker 2: band made of mine, Shannon. Every day we'd wake up,
Speaker 2: we're hustling, we're doing this tour, and I'd have to
Speaker 2: go through all the problems from the show before these
Speaker 2: need to be set. This guy's fucking up on his job.
Speaker 2: He's hitting the sound cues late. I need the lighting
Speaker 2: to come on early on this watching videos, figuring shit out,
Speaker 2: doing everybody's job. That's what I was trained by Puffed do,
Speaker 2: and that's what I do while I do everybody's job.
Speaker 2: So as I'm doing all of that, I'm I'm Shannon's
Speaker 2: talking with the Starbucks person, super nice whatever.
Speaker 1: Get in the car. She drives while I'm doing all
Speaker 1: the work.
Speaker 2: And at one point she stopped and she was like,
Speaker 2: we're at a venue and she's touching some brick and
Speaker 2: she goes, this is the last venue that Kurt Cobain
Speaker 2: performed in and he signed this brick, Like this is
Speaker 2: like pretty epic that we're performing here tonight.
Speaker 1: I was like, Shannon the shoes.
Speaker 2: Name are the shoes on stage right, because last night
Speaker 2: you were late on matt is this is this, is
Speaker 2: this is this. And she looked at me and she
Speaker 2: was like, ohbs, Like for one second, you need to
Speaker 2: like enjoy life. She's like, we have gone to Starbucks
Speaker 2: every morning for the past year of building this project.
Speaker 1: And you don't even know Carlos.
Speaker 4: Who's Carlos theisa.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And Carlos' mom works in the deli and her
Speaker 2: name is Patty and she's really nice. And Carlos has
Speaker 2: a roommate and this and that and and she just
Speaker 2: told me this whole thing, and I I realized, Shit,
Speaker 2: I'm just always like.
Speaker 1: This, yeah, fixing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I realized, like, and Shannon said, we learned
Speaker 2: that from puff And because Shannon was married prior and
Speaker 2: she goes back to a you know, bend organ and
Speaker 2: her husband and a very normal, slow paced life.
Speaker 4: Yeah, she could come out of it.
Speaker 1: She could come out of it.
Speaker 2: And and she she would tell me all the time,
Speaker 2: like we were taught that you have to work so
Speaker 2: hard to get to to the top of the mountain
Speaker 2: when actually you could just casually walk up it at
Speaker 2: a pretty like decent steady pace that isn't painful, and
Speaker 2: you can get to the top and have had a
Speaker 2: pretty good life and enjoyed it too.
Speaker 4: You could pick some flowers on the way up.
Speaker 1: Pick some flowers smell.
Speaker 2: Then you can even pitch a tent and maybe take
Speaker 2: some photos and walk a little faster the next day.
Speaker 2: Like it doesn't. We don't have to like be starved, sleepless.
Speaker 4: Out stressed to be successful.
Speaker 2: I still find a heart and I still see victim
Speaker 2: aspects in that, even though I know other people feel
Speaker 2: differently and I have to consider their stories as well.
Speaker 1: It's all very complicated and layered.
Speaker 2: But at the end, if you were to get charged
Speaker 2: on everything, I think i'd probably first feel pretty sad
Speaker 2: for him.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you have a level of sympathy in there still.
Speaker 2: You know, I said I didn't like earlier on in
Speaker 2: this call, but I guess if you're telling if we're
Speaker 2: talking at the end of this and it's looking it's
Speaker 2: not looking great for him, you know, it's a whole
Speaker 2: man's life, and he's a very very powerful man that
Speaker 2: shifted a culture for a very long period of time.
Speaker 2: But the collateral damage was so deep that for whatever
Speaker 2: crimes he committed, he does need to be put away.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I I would feel a sorrow for.
Speaker 2: What his life will be when he can't be all
Speaker 2: the things. In all honesty, maybe when you take all
Speaker 2: of it away, he can just naturally be in a
Speaker 2: state where he can be who he's maybe always wanted
Speaker 2: to be. If there is something like that happening deep down,
Speaker 2: I don't know, but either way, like they'll be that
Speaker 2: and then they'll be you know, you have to remember,
Speaker 2: after this is eighty civil suits, and I don't fall
Speaker 2: under the statute of limitations on anything anymore. But there
Speaker 2: are some things that I need to get to the
Speaker 2: bottom of. And there are some things that happened along
Speaker 2: the way that were traumatic as fuck for me, and
Speaker 2: I want to understand them, and I want the world
Speaker 2: to understand them as well, because if I had to
Speaker 2: go through it and put on a smile to make
Speaker 2: all you motherfucking people watching me happy, then you're going
Speaker 2: to learn exactly what it looked like.
Speaker 4: Are you thinking that you'll file a civil suit at
Speaker 4: some point.
Speaker 2: When you're in a situation where there are a lot
Speaker 2: of victims and you're speaking to authorities you're not allowed
Speaker 2: to speak with other victims. Now that there's a trial
Speaker 2: and I'm not subpoena, I know I can come talk here, obviously,
Speaker 2: But if somebody were to have seen something or there
Speaker 2: was something to have occurred, and they're a victim, then
Speaker 2: I wouldn't be able to understand my situation until their
Speaker 2: situation was resolved, or until at least this situation was resolved,
Speaker 2: because then I could actively start to call and ask
Speaker 2: and investigate.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you're saying, you're just hoping that these civil
Speaker 3: suits are a way for you to learn more about
Speaker 3: some of them.
Speaker 4: Waiting for other people.
Speaker 2: I'm not waiting for eighty civil suits. I want to
Speaker 2: get right to it the second that I can. I
Speaker 2: just want to understand what what what the information that
Speaker 2: I was given, I want to understand it.
Speaker 3: So for you, it's more of a personal journey of
Speaker 3: understanding who he is and why he acts the way
Speaker 3: he does.
Speaker 2: Is that I don't I have my I had my
Speaker 2: personal experience, and I do I have answers to those questions.
Speaker 2: There's a situation that's still at large, Emily as of today.
Speaker 2: Let's make a call. Yeah, on possessing people across state lines.
Speaker 2: Two counts of that is Gesz get guilty on that?
Speaker 4: I'm going to say. I'm going to go yes, yeah, Okay.
Speaker 1: I'm a yes on that too.
Speaker 2: Sex trafficking two counts, two counts of sex trafficking, right
Speaker 2: or is it rec Yeah, okay, two sex counts of trafficking?
Speaker 1: Are you guilty as of today?
Speaker 4: I'm going to say guilty, guilty too?
Speaker 1: What about on racketeering?
Speaker 4: I'm going to see guilty on racketeering. I think that
Speaker 4: they're called these witnesses.
Speaker 3: They're definitely establishing criminal enterprise, and me is testimony. Like
Speaker 3: you pointed out, we're not talking about girlfriends anymore, so
Speaker 3: we can't hone in on the whole. Like you know,
Speaker 3: she was a girlfriend. She was doing it consensually. You know,
Speaker 3: that's just the way the relationship was. He's kinky, she
Speaker 3: went along with it. Now we're talking about the way
Speaker 3: he treated a personal assistant. So that was really compelling
Speaker 3: testimony as far as the criminal enterprise, So.
Speaker 2: Yep, unless there's a bombshelf that comes on Monday, i'd say, right,
Speaker 2: Mia was the glue that brought it, brought it on home.
Speaker 1: Right for now, I don't see a lot of lanes
Speaker 1: out of.
Speaker 4: This I don't either.
Speaker 3: The only thing I worried about in the beginning it
Speaker 3: was jury tampery.
Speaker 2: Well, we shall see, right see, if anyone from the
Speaker 2: jury gives a wink before they give the call, we'll
Speaker 2: find out in a Netflix documentary twenty years later.
Speaker 4: Exactly.
Speaker 2: All right, Emily, thank you so much. It's been so
Speaker 2: great getting to know you.
Speaker 1: You're awesome.
Speaker 2: You literally make me want to watch The Housewives of OC.
Speaker 2: This has been fun for me today.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it was. It was really fun. Thank you
Speaker 4: for having me on. I appreciate it and I look
Speaker 4: forward to next time. Yes, okay, thanks all, Thank you. Bye.