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Speaker 1: Amy and TJ present Aubrey o Day covering the Didty trial.

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Speaker 1: Hey guys, it's Aubrey O'Day.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to the coverage of the Diddy trial, brought

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Speaker 2: to you by TJ and Amy. I am so excited.

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Speaker 2: I know I always am excited about my guests, but

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Speaker 2: I have a very, very established attorney who has got

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Speaker 2: her own show with her husband on iHeartRadio called Legally

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Speaker 2: Burnette Emily. I have to say as one single non lawyer,

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Speaker 2: but think she is to one very housewifed up attorney

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Speaker 2: who is legit.

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Speaker 1: I am so happy to finally be talking this case

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Speaker 1: with you.

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Speaker 2: I really want to get into me a bombshell this week,

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Speaker 2: bombshell for the prosecution.

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Speaker 3: You know, I'm excited to talk to you too, because

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Speaker 3: obviously my husband and I have been covering the trial.

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Speaker 3: We do a lot of legal analysis, you know, we

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Speaker 3: break it down. We talked about testimony, you know, we

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Speaker 3: talk about Rico and what he's actually being charged with

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Speaker 3: and whether the prosecution is meeting those burdens. But I

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Speaker 3: will tell you it's very interesting for me as a

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Speaker 3: lawyer to talk to you because it's not very often

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Speaker 3: that I actually get the opportunity to talk to someone

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Speaker 3: who has personal experience with a legal issue that we're

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Speaker 3: discussing and that we're analyzing.

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Speaker 4: So this is a win win for both of us.

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Speaker 4: So yes, I agree.

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Speaker 1: I can't wait. You can teach me how to catch

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Speaker 1: your husband, teach me the law, all right, but we'll

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Speaker 1: work on that, okay.

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Speaker 2: So with Mia, I just want to first establish two

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Speaker 2: days of testimony.

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Speaker 1: She still is going to be in cross on Monday.

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Speaker 2: We ended today with Brian Steel cross examining her.

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Speaker 1: For those that don't know, Brian Steele.

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Speaker 2: Is in most cases probably one of the best most

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Speaker 2: effective lawyers on Diddy's side, and probably this was one

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Speaker 2: of the worst crosses in the entire trial for me personally.

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Speaker 2: It ventured over into victim blaming, which at this point

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Speaker 2: I think Dawn the therapist is established for the most part,

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Speaker 2: everybody's kind of established.

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Speaker 1: People that are victims.

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Speaker 2: Do go back to their abusers, They do have shame

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Speaker 2: in their stories, They do go back to things that

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Speaker 2: are familiar in order to just forget and not and

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Speaker 2: pretend like it didn't happen, in order to find normalcy again.

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Speaker 2: This contact back with abusers, this you know, wanting to

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Speaker 2: work back with them or communicate with them. It's a

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Speaker 2: nothing burger for me at this point. If that's all

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Speaker 2: you have, then you don't have much.

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Speaker 3: Well, I would agree with that, and I would say

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Speaker 3: that's basically what the defense has, and that's what they're

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Speaker 3: going to focus on on every single way forward. It's

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Speaker 3: always to be why did you stay, why were you

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Speaker 3: there so long? Why did you engage? Why did you

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Speaker 3: come back? Why did you keep showing.

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Speaker 4: Up for work?

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Speaker 3: And I thought it was really important that the prosecution

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Speaker 3: did put Dawn on, who I can't remember is she psychiatrists?

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Speaker 1: She's a clinic forensic psychology segment.

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Speaker 4: Right, and we know she also testified and the ambramber Johnny, Yeah, right,

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Speaker 4: So but I thought it was really important that they

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Speaker 4: brought her forward.

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Speaker 3: And I'm sure you probably agree with that, because that's

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Speaker 3: the question that the jury has is why did people

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Speaker 3: continue to go back? Why did they stay, why did

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Speaker 3: they show up for work the next day? Why did

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Speaker 3: they assistance spend years? And so it was important for

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Speaker 3: her to come on. But you have your own personal

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Speaker 3: experience in that realm as well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And for me personally, you know, I was fired

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Speaker 2: on national television after years and years of leading up

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Speaker 2: this band for being raunchy and promiscuous and bad for business,

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Speaker 2: which none was true. I wish at the time we

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Speaker 2: were in an era where things like me Too, and

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Speaker 2: a lot of movements now that have occurred where you

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Speaker 2: can go against corporations and you can sue people for

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Speaker 2: wrongful termination, and it is something that feels more available

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Speaker 2: to us. Back then, even with parents' lawyers and very

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Speaker 2: established lawyers surrounding me, no one gave me that idea.

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Speaker 2: And now, of course I'm past the statute of limitations.

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Speaker 2: But I have seen what happens when you don't do

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Speaker 2: what he wants and you get fired and you get blacklisted,

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Speaker 2: and I experienced blacklisting, and I know what that looks like.

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Speaker 2: It's very real, the threat that everyone is saying about

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Speaker 2: not wanting to be well, I got to the other

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Speaker 2: side of it, and it's real. It's actually a real thing,

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Speaker 2: and it does happen, and it's humiliating and shameful, and

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Speaker 2: half of it I put out of my head, and

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Speaker 2: half of it I'll wake up out of my sleep

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Speaker 2: sometimes in cringe that I was in that position and

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Speaker 2: I didn't understand even that it was all designed just

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Speaker 2: to humiliate me a step further?

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 3: Wait, I can I ask a question because I think

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Speaker 3: this is ironic what I was listening to you talk?

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Speaker 3: Weren't you poised as the sexy one?

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Speaker 4: Wasn't that? Weren't they? Wasn't it?

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Speaker 3: The intent was to establish you as like the pretty

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Speaker 3: the sexy one, and then you end up getting fired

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Speaker 3: for being like the sexy one?

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Speaker 4: Was that the do I?

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Speaker 3: Really?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: And also how funny is it I get end up

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Speaker 2: being fired for being raunchy and promiscuous and that's.

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Speaker 1: Bad for business.

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Speaker 2: If it's bad for business, well then did he must

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Speaker 2: be really bad for business because we all know that

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Speaker 2: he likes a little raunchy and promiscuous At this point.

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Speaker 3: Well, it seemed to work well for his business, actually,

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Speaker 3: because the fan has done it.

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Speaker 4: For years and years and years and years and years

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Speaker 4: and is a billionaire.

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Speaker 2: And that part right there for me is where I'm

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Speaker 2: at with this. I'm very I feel very strong after

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Speaker 2: me as testimony about what has been proven, and let

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Speaker 2: we'll get into that as we continue, But beyond that,

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Speaker 2: I'm really interested in systematic changes. You know, I talked

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Speaker 2: about Capricorn's testimony I would have liked it to go

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Speaker 2: a little bit further into details of who made payments

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Speaker 2: to her, and let's establish a few more people.

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Speaker 1: Because there are the trail is.

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Speaker 2: You got to remember that this man was still in

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Speaker 2: order to stay at the levels and operate at the

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Speaker 2: levels of destruction that he was operating at for so long,

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Speaker 2: you have to have your pockets continuing to be fed.

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Speaker 2: You have to have the whole establishment basically behind you.

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Speaker 1: Now, how much.

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Speaker 2: People's knowledge of things were is always something that I assess,

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Speaker 2: but you know, my first hand knowledge of when I

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Speaker 2: was around, there were people that saw plenty of things,

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Speaker 2: and plenty of things kind of been stopped by very

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Speaker 2: big people. And they continued on. It continued on. They

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Speaker 2: fired me, and I even had to go back to

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Speaker 2: Reunion and get beat up some more under those same

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Speaker 2: terminology statements, everyone knowing damn well that those things aren't true.

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Speaker 2: I had to play the character of that, and they

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Speaker 2: just allowed me to get lashing after lashing. They created

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Speaker 2: a narrative that I could never get up under and

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Speaker 2: in fact had to play into for most of my career.

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Speaker 2: I am definitely not sexy or pretty in my head.

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Speaker 2: I've learned how to be according to society standards, because unfortunately,

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Speaker 2: that's the lane that I was left with, and that

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Speaker 2: was the only opportunity I had when I left. Everybody

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Speaker 2: pretended like there were opportunities and music in there, but

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Speaker 2: really all of those turned out to be rooms that

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Speaker 2: were built to humiliate and make me walk away in

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Speaker 2: very big, deep amounts of shame and feeling like I

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Speaker 2: wasn't good enough and like a loser, and not understanding

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Speaker 2: that all of that more orchestrated and controlled. And then

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Speaker 2: the only person that came to me with a real

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Speaker 2: big opportunity was Hugh Hefner to do the cover of Playboy.

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Speaker 2: And then that's how you end up going down a

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Speaker 2: lane that doesn't necessarily feel like you.

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Speaker 1: But there's a lot of limitations in my contract.

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Speaker 2: My mom's a good lawyer, so I didn't have to

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Speaker 2: show anything I didn't want to show. And you know,

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Speaker 2: you in chovern to the pictures that are painted for you.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure even as a reality TV person, you've had

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Speaker 2: painted pictures of you created either by your cast members

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Speaker 2: or by editing or producers. They're all involved, and you've

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Speaker 2: had to find ways to sometimes lean in and sometimes

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Speaker 2: absolutely establish No.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I would also say when you were going

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Speaker 3: through that, that was a different time period. And I

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Speaker 3: think that it was now because of all these women

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Speaker 3: that have come forward like Cassie and there's been women

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Speaker 3: before her, and with the Me Too movement, I think

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Speaker 3: women are more empowered now to stand up for themselves

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Speaker 3: and to say I'm not comfortable doing that, that's not right.

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Speaker 3: The problem is is that this was early two thousands

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Speaker 3: for you, right, And I don't think that you had

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Speaker 3: anyone advocating on your behalf. And when we talk about

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Speaker 3: Diddy and we talk about this trial and we talk

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Speaker 3: about the prosecution, you're absolutely right when you say that

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Speaker 3: this was a whole network of people that knew what

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Speaker 3: was going on. And clearly there were deep pockets, there

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Speaker 3: were people being paid, there were people turning away.

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Speaker 2: What I loved getting back to the testimony with Mia

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Speaker 2: is she is the first witness to establish a different

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Speaker 2: pattern of behavior in regards to sexual abuse. This isn't

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Speaker 2: a girlfriend, This isn't somebody that wanted to be a girlfriend.

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Speaker 2: This is somebody that was an employee. This was somebody

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Speaker 2: that was raped in ways where she's in a closet

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Speaker 2: packing his suitcase and he's got his dick out and

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Speaker 2: forcing it in her mouth.

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Speaker 1: Allegedly.

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Speaker 2: This isn't the standard freak off staged event that's going on.

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Speaker 2: And we're now venturing into other territories of other abusive

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Speaker 2: types of behavior. The force is still there, like in

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Speaker 2: every other case, the coercion is still there. Basically, everything

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Speaker 2: he did, from making her live into in his home,

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Speaker 2: the not eating, not not being able, working ridiculous amount

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Speaker 2: of days, four or five days straight, all of that

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Speaker 2: was very standard.

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Speaker 1: We went through that too.

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Speaker 2: I mean, to me, I just felt like, this is

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Speaker 2: what it is when you are working at.

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Speaker 1: This powerful of a level.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't until I worked at that powerful of a

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Speaker 2: level with that even more powerful essentially sometimes people that

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Speaker 2: I realized, oh, these motherfuckers take a lot of breaks.

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Speaker 2: Y'all are a little bit late in all honesty. Presidents, sir,

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Speaker 2: you're a bit late. You're an apprentice. I mean, the

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Speaker 2: work ethic was way different over this side. But I

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Speaker 2: learned that actually people do get water and bathroom breaks

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Speaker 2: and food at lunch, et cetera. That's was just not

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Speaker 2: something that that that.

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Speaker 1: We were used to.

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Speaker 2: But as far as Mia goes she's a critical witness

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Speaker 2: because unlike the other two government victims, this is just

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Speaker 2: not a former romantic partner. This is an employee. She

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Speaker 2: was sexually abused allegedly. They're victim blaming her on the

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Speaker 2: cross and it's not really working for me.

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Speaker 1: It absolutely doesn't work.

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Speaker 2: You know, you always have to wonder if there's that

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Speaker 2: one person in the jury that just doesn't understand. But

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Speaker 2: then again, you never know. They always surprise you. As

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Speaker 2: kind of what every attorney has always told me along

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Speaker 2: the way. Mia, in regards to Rico, I feel she's

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Speaker 2: established that in a big way.

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Speaker 3: So you because I've worried. My worry in this case

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Speaker 3: is establishing Rico.

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Speaker 4: So I was.

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Speaker 3: Feeling up until this point where you're saying when Mia

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Speaker 3: comes in and again I don't know if we establish

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Speaker 3: this already, but me as a pseudonym. So that is

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Speaker 3: not her real name.

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Speaker 1: No, that's not a real name.

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Speaker 4: I was wondering if you know who she is?

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, so you know her personally and you've met

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Speaker 3: her before or had interactions with her before.

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Speaker 4: Yes, And what do you.

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Speaker 3: Think I want to know your opinion on this. What

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Speaker 3: is do you think is her reasoning for using a

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Speaker 3: pseudonym because clearly she's sitting in court across from him.

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Speaker 4: He knows who she is.

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Speaker 3: I assume it's just to keep her name out of

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Speaker 3: the press. However, at some point it's going to be

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Speaker 3: released and it's going to get out there. There's no

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Speaker 3: way you can keep that secret for a long period

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Speaker 3: of time.

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Speaker 2: So to me, it's just let me say this. You'd

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Speaker 2: be really surprised. I did a search to see how

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Speaker 2: easy it was to figure out who she was based off.

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Speaker 1: Of just her testimony alone. In regards to her work profile, right,

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Speaker 1: it's wiped.

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Speaker 4: Oh wow, really.

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Speaker 2: It is wiped. It's not on the Revolt site. It's

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Speaker 2: completely wiped off of all of that. I have people

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Speaker 2: news friends that work for very big news sources that

253
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Speaker 2: all are still don't know who she is. They could

254
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Speaker 2: describe her to me because they're in court seeing her.

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Speaker 2: I already know who she is, but I would never

256
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Speaker 2: tell anyone who she is. But I am super impressed

257
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Speaker 2: with how she really has been able to be the

258
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Speaker 2: glue that has connected a lot of these pieces together

259
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Speaker 2: because she provides a different a different experience within the

260
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Speaker 2: same being able to validate Cassie's experiences being able to

261
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Speaker 2: validate a lot of people's experiences also though, being able

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Speaker 2: to widen the gap of what an employee witnessed and

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Speaker 2: had to go through in that she was carrying drugs,

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Speaker 2: she was around criminal behavior constantly, she was assaulted, there

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Speaker 2: was force, there was coercion, and there was criminal behavior

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Speaker 2: going on allegedly the entire time. And I didn't see

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Speaker 2: Brian Steele doing his magic at all. And if anyone

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Speaker 2: could be magical in this moment, it would be him.

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Speaker 1: He's very good at what he does.

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Speaker 3: Right, And you have to remember, just everyone out there listening.

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Speaker 3: The prosecution has to prove Rico, which means that they

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Speaker 3: have to prove that Diddy worked as a criminal enterprise

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Speaker 3: and that he was at the top, and that all

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Speaker 3: of his employees were working together for a unified benefit

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Speaker 3: of this criminal enterprise. And so far, when you have

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Speaker 3: Cassie testifying and you have some personal assistance testifying, it

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Speaker 3: was like, I don't know, are we establishing a criminal enterprise?

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Speaker 2: What can you Can you explain to me what criminal

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Speaker 2: enterprise legally means?

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Speaker 1: Can it be?

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Speaker 2: Because what I've what I understand about RICO was created

282
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Speaker 2: for the mob families is to take that those situations down.

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Speaker 2: But in the past couple of years from what I

284
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Speaker 2: understand that it's really been stretched and utilized in other

285
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Speaker 2: cases in different ways, and you've been able to establish

286
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Speaker 2: smaller corporations run by one big.

287
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Speaker 1: Lead and less people.

288
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Speaker 2: They've been able to utilize it and win in cases

289
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Speaker 2: that don't look as aggressive as a mob case would.

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Speaker 2: And so I really want you to explain to the

291
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Speaker 2: audience how small it could actually be and and still

292
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Speaker 2: have this successful RICO charge like exem and and R Kelly.

293
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Speaker 1: Can you can talk about those two.

294
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Speaker 2: R Kelly was that's one person at the top there

295
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Speaker 2: was benefiting from a lot of things that had a

296
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Speaker 2: lot of people around him doing criminal things, moving people,

297
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Speaker 2: and he got charged. So tell me how low the

298
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Speaker 2: bar can be and still get a conviction in regards

299
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Speaker 2: to people.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, it's actually it defines RICO defines and

301
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Speaker 3: enterprise a criminal enterprise. It's actually defined very broadly, which

302
00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:06,040
Speaker 3: is good because we don't want to have a very

303
00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:08,640
Speaker 3: narrow scope on it. And it's really just a business

304
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Speaker 3: or a group of people that are based in criminal activity.

305
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Speaker 3: And really it's you have to have two criminal acts

306
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Speaker 3: within a ten year time period. So I feel like

307
00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:21,760
Speaker 3: there were a check right, check right, exactly, and it's

308
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Speaker 3: for one common just you know, one common unified goal,

309
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Speaker 3: which is Ditty at the top and whatever it is.

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Speaker 4: That he can.

311
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Speaker 2: And also the one common, one common thread too is

312
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Speaker 2: who was paying everybody, and that is bad Boy Cassie

313
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Speaker 2: was doing. She said her full time job became being

314
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Speaker 2: a girl in the freak Offs doing sex work, but

315
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Speaker 2: she was paid under bad Boy with the same payment

316
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Speaker 2: that an artist waiting for ten albums to come out

317
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Speaker 2: would be being paid. But she wasn't making albums. She

318
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Speaker 2: was doing sex work and that was expected of her.

319
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Speaker 2: Those payments were coming from bad Boy. MIA's payments were

320
00:14:57,480 --> 00:15:03,080
Speaker 2: coming from bad Boy. Capricorn's were coming from bad Boy. Allegedly,

321
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Speaker 2: all of the abuse was under Diddy and bad Boy

322
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Speaker 2: was his corporation.

323
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Speaker 3: Right, And of course they had kid cutting testify to

324
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Speaker 3: the arson and burglary.

325
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Speaker 1: And kidnapping with Capricorn.

326
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Speaker 3: Exactly, because there you have you're establishing not only is

327
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Speaker 3: there the sex acts and the sex trafficking, but then

328
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Speaker 3: you have the burglary or you have the arson, So

329
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Speaker 3: you're establishing obviously more than two criminal acts within a

330
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Speaker 3: ten year time period.

331
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Speaker 2: So, you know, do you feel that it's been that

332
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Speaker 2: the burden has been met just right now today?

333
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Speaker 4: I don't know.

334
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Speaker 3: I mean, I think so it really depends on how

335
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Speaker 3: savvy the jury is. And I really feel like there's

336
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Speaker 3: gonna First of all, we're only in week three of testimony,

337
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Speaker 3: so obviously there's going to be more people that testify,

338
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Speaker 3: and then it really comes down to prosecution when they

339
00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:53,360
Speaker 3: do their closing arguments to actually tie it all together

340
00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:56,960
Speaker 3: for the jury so that they understand how all these

341
00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:59,400
Speaker 3: people were involved, how they were paid, and how they

342
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Speaker 3: were all you in this criminal enterprise for his benefit.

343
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Speaker 3: And I think that they'll be able to do that

344
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Speaker 3: once we have more witnesses.

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Speaker 2: Well, what kind of witnesses are you you personally still

346
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Speaker 2: wanting to see because I have to take the jury

347
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Speaker 2: and the possibility that somebody just doesn't get it on

348
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Speaker 2: the jury out of my head because there's so many

349
00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:20,920
Speaker 2: people that don't get it anymore in our society. I'm

350
00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:23,240
Speaker 2: scared to death about that. But if we put all

351
00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:26,440
Speaker 2: of that aside, and you who is credible and understands

352
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Speaker 2: this and understands the testimony.

353
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Speaker 1: And is well versed. What more do you need to see?

354
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Speaker 4: You know, I would like more, I wouldn't.

355
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Speaker 3: I would like security to come forward, bodyguard bodyguards and

356
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Speaker 3: say I protected him, this is what I saw, I

357
00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:43,760
Speaker 3: took these payments.

358
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Speaker 4: I just something, just a little bit more.

359
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Speaker 3: I mean, in my mind, Rico's established. I'm just saying

360
00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:53,160
Speaker 3: on a jury. Have they established it yet? I don't know,

361
00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:55,880
Speaker 3: but we still have weeks of testimony, and obviously I'm

362
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Speaker 3: also it surprises me that you weren't summoned, you know.

363
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Speaker 2: I think because so at there's a piece of my story.

364
00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:07,480
Speaker 2: There's pieces of my story that I can't speak about

365
00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:11,960
Speaker 2: because I have an exclusivity in a different situation. And

366
00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:14,359
Speaker 2: that was done prior to even understanding that any of

367
00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:16,359
Speaker 2: this type of justice was going to be something that

368
00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:18,800
Speaker 2: was available and real in my lifetime.

369
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Speaker 1: So a lot of us went.

370
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Speaker 2: In a direction to hope to seek justice with somebody

371
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Speaker 2: that felt like they were going to get to the

372
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Speaker 2: bottom of it. Now that we're getting it to the

373
00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:29,000
Speaker 2: bottom of it in front of the world that have

374
00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:32,399
Speaker 2: been allowed to do this, you know, but without sharing

375
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Speaker 2: my full story. So it's hard to get into that part.

376
00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:40,919
Speaker 2: But I will say, you'd have to remember. If something

377
00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:43,760
Speaker 2: were to have happened to you, you'd have to remember

378
00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:46,280
Speaker 2: it in order to sit on the stand and discuss it, right,

379
00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:50,280
Speaker 2: So that would be a reason someone would be summoned.

380
00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:54,439
Speaker 2: If somebody witnessed something and you didn't remember it, or

381
00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:57,160
Speaker 2: you had no recollection of it, then you wouldn't necessarily

382
00:17:57,200 --> 00:17:58,400
Speaker 2: be a valuable witness.

383
00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:03,000
Speaker 1: As far as like the beatings and things like that.

384
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Speaker 2: A lot of the stuff that is being spoken about,

385
00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:07,800
Speaker 2: and a lot of the really bad stuff was happening

386
00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:10,399
Speaker 2: during a dirty money era of the run, and that

387
00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:12,080
Speaker 2: was after I was already fired.

388
00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:17,480
Speaker 3: So you're saying a little pre maybe a little your

389
00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:20,680
Speaker 3: experience was before it really started to take off into

390
00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:21,000
Speaker 3: some of.

391
00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:25,159
Speaker 2: These in my opinion, allegedly it was taken off in

392
00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:32,560
Speaker 2: the nineties. But in regards to you know, these are

393
00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:38,520
Speaker 2: very specific criminal charges and you'd have to really be

394
00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:44,240
Speaker 2: able to bolster very specific criminal situations. And I have

395
00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:46,720
Speaker 2: never been a willing participant in anything criminal.

396
00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:49,360
Speaker 3: Okay, let me ask you a question, did you were

397
00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:52,200
Speaker 3: you aware of these alleged I guess they're not alleged

398
00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:54,240
Speaker 3: because they're on tape and we've seen them. But these

399
00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:57,520
Speaker 3: freak offs when you had your experience, was that something

400
00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:00,000
Speaker 3: that you had heard of, that you saw, that you witnessed,

401
00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:00,760
Speaker 3: that you knew about.

402
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:04,320
Speaker 1: I don't think I can get into that territory, but.

403
00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:09,480
Speaker 2: I believe a lot of people that got close enough

404
00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:14,880
Speaker 2: to that enterprise understood the sexual behavior that was occurring

405
00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:19,040
Speaker 2: around them. It was very It's like they say that

406
00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:25,080
Speaker 2: prison is more gossipy than West Hollywood during the weekends.

407
00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:29,040
Speaker 1: The gays out for brunch during the weekends, and West Hollywood.

408
00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:32,520
Speaker 2: Bad Boy was a gossip mill of and everybody loved

409
00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:35,840
Speaker 2: to share their videos and their times and their experiences

410
00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:38,840
Speaker 2: and their knowledge of things from.

411
00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:39,480
Speaker 1: All sides of it.

412
00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:41,479
Speaker 2: And so, I mean you could see right when this

413
00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:43,840
Speaker 2: came down how many bodyguards came forward and were just

414
00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:48,760
Speaker 2: openly discussing the butt plug size they would buy for him, untildo, this, that,

415
00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,920
Speaker 2: this that. I mean, it was like Jesus, like within

416
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:57,040
Speaker 2: two days you had every bodyguard talking like low level,

417
00:19:57,119 --> 00:20:01,080
Speaker 2: silly gossip stuff that he's not on trial for his sexuality.

418
00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:02,800
Speaker 1: I didn't take what I didn't love.

419
00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:06,119
Speaker 2: That's why I'm nervous about the bodyguard situation, because there

420
00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:08,000
Speaker 2: were so many that have come forward that have been

421
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:11,840
Speaker 2: in the documentaries and that are also problematic themselves. They

422
00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:17,960
Speaker 2: would have to have been given immunity. I definitely spoke

423
00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:20,440
Speaker 2: to one that was willing to take immunity.

424
00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:22,880
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know.

425
00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:27,639
Speaker 2: You don't know what happens beyond your personal interaction with

426
00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:31,240
Speaker 2: Homeland Security. They don't give you information. If they find

427
00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:34,200
Speaker 2: something out, they do not tell you. They don't share information.

428
00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:37,520
Speaker 2: There's nothing that is you're not having like that. They're

429
00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:42,320
Speaker 2: very kind and and and compassionate and good people that are,

430
00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:46,040
Speaker 2: you know, good actors of the law, but they don't

431
00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:49,119
Speaker 2: they don't shed light on your experience for you.

432
00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:01,399
Speaker 3: I know that there is a lot of talk about

433
00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:06,479
Speaker 3: whether they're going to show the Goff videos during the trial.

434
00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:10,880
Speaker 3: Now the question is does that help secution or does

435
00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:13,760
Speaker 3: that hurt the prosecution. I guess it really depends upon

436
00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:17,440
Speaker 3: how much they show what they show, But if they

437
00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:20,200
Speaker 3: show it in a way where people are like, Okay,

438
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:22,639
Speaker 3: that's crazy, but it's just a bunch of adults that

439
00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:26,879
Speaker 3: consented to this. I've heard that Dinny actually on these videos.

440
00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:28,400
Speaker 3: I don't know if this is true, this is alleged.

441
00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:30,399
Speaker 3: This is what I've heard that he WoT that he

442
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:33,000
Speaker 3: actually makes a disclaimer in the beginning before any of

443
00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:35,280
Speaker 3: these freak offs start and say, if there's anyone that

444
00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:37,480
Speaker 3: doesn't want to be here, you can leave. So I

445
00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:40,719
Speaker 3: don't know if that's true. That's just allegedly, do you

446
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:41,639
Speaker 3: know anything about that.

447
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:44,720
Speaker 2: He clearly was very aware that what he was doing

448
00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:48,320
Speaker 2: was criminal, in my opinion, because he was having Cassie

449
00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:52,120
Speaker 2: set it all up, like if you wanted to pick

450
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:55,480
Speaker 2: which guys dix and which guy's colors and which guy's

451
00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:58,640
Speaker 2: sizes you liked. Instead of giving her a fucking eight

452
00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:01,600
Speaker 2: page recite, why didn't you just go on the side

453
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:03,480
Speaker 2: and pick them out and make a phone call. He

454
00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:06,600
Speaker 2: was having her go get the photos, show him the picture,

455
00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:09,560
Speaker 2: show him the people, get the information, go over, give

456
00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:10,160
Speaker 2: her the money.

457
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:12,600
Speaker 1: She goes and pays. Don't look at him, just do

458
00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:13,200
Speaker 1: what I say.

459
00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:17,760
Speaker 2: But it's like everything was It's like he was always

460
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:20,080
Speaker 2: passing off the control to other people. Shiit Mia was

461
00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:23,919
Speaker 2: carrying around his drug pit purse allegedly with all of

462
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:28,359
Speaker 2: his colorful pills in it like it's it's it's like

463
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,919
Speaker 2: every he had to have some knowledge that what was

464
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:35,760
Speaker 2: going on, in my opinion, Allegedly that was going on

465
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:40,000
Speaker 2: was was conal was criminal or else, he would have

466
00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:43,240
Speaker 2: been a little bit more hands on and a little

467
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:47,120
Speaker 2: less like establishing. I don't know how much time and

468
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:50,080
Speaker 2: the and the man that I knew and understood him

469
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:50,280
Speaker 2: to be.

470
00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:52,040
Speaker 1: He was on the go, he's moving.

471
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:56,600
Speaker 2: It's it almost is giving a bipolar jump in personalities

472
00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:58,360
Speaker 2: and moods and shifts and everything.

473
00:22:58,359 --> 00:22:59,920
Speaker 1: It just stand up and go out.

474
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:01,520
Speaker 2: Don't know if that's drug field, if it's a mental

475
00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:04,200
Speaker 2: health condition, I don't know. Allegedly, whatever it is, it

476
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 2: was very shifty. But that being said, you'd think that,

477
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,000
Speaker 2: like if someone's that shifty and that on the move,

478
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 2: that they would just make calls themselves on certain things.

479
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,080
Speaker 1: But he was very careful to not do that. He

480
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:19,240
Speaker 1: was careful with Cutty to be.

481
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:21,200
Speaker 2: Out of the house by the time Cutty gets back.

482
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:23,720
Speaker 2: He's careful at Soho house to tell him what.

483
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:25,080
Speaker 4: Do you mean right?

484
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:28,320
Speaker 3: He's also careful that he has someone under his direction

485
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,800
Speaker 3: actually put the cocktail in the car and commit the arson.

486
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:35,879
Speaker 3: It's not him, He's not the one cutting the convertible open.

487
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:37,679
Speaker 4: But you know, I thought the same thing as that.

488
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:40,800
Speaker 2: Jay might have flipped the man who did allegedly and

489
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:44,160
Speaker 2: you can go down a nice, dark, dirty YouTube hole

490
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:46,639
Speaker 2: if you'd like to. One night, I'll come over for

491
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,359
Speaker 2: drinks like Little fives moment, except that you are too.

492
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:52,880
Speaker 2: But but you could go down a nice little YouTube

493
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:57,160
Speaker 2: tunnel of understanding. Back in the day, people that came

494
00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:00,480
Speaker 2: forward and said that they were prostitutes for Cassie and Puff,

495
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:03,119
Speaker 2: and they name people that he'd talk to on phone

496
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:05,680
Speaker 2: calls in front of him allegedly. And when a time

497
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,840
Speaker 2: where people are very charged, I just optics wise, I

498
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,200
Speaker 2: thought certain things would be different. And he was saying

499
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 2: to me, I was like, has it changed? Do lawyers

500
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:17,840
Speaker 2: not care about like justice anymore? Is it really just

501
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:19,960
Speaker 2: about the money grabs? And he's like, you know, it's

502
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,919
Speaker 2: it's both. Some lawyers really want to make money and

503
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 2: some lawyers really are after that pursuit. You can get

504
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,760
Speaker 2: disenfranchised enough in a career as an attorney when you're

505
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 2: after the pursuit to stop caring about the pursuit and

506
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:32,840
Speaker 2: want to fucking you know.

507
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:35,879
Speaker 1: He's a yeah, he's like some AU.

508
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,480
Speaker 2: I was like, tell me specifically about AAU says, And

509
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,959
Speaker 2: he was like, some aussays are are have got that?

510
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:44,919
Speaker 2: I don't care what the payment is I want to

511
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,480
Speaker 2: be I want to be in the most prestigious position

512
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,119
Speaker 2: to fight for justice for people. And He's like, and

513
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:52,520
Speaker 2: some realize that after doing this job for a certain

514
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:54,240
Speaker 2: period of time, they're going to get a great corporate

515
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:55,879
Speaker 2: gig that pays a lot of fucking money when they

516
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 2: settle out and want to go out away from that job.

517
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 2: I didn't understand from that vantage point, but I was

518
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 2: trying to get a read on because so much of

519
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 2: this is going to be about the jury and the lawyers,

520
00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 2: and so little of it is about the people on

521
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 2: the stand when it all when I watched the Netflix

522
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:13,600
Speaker 2: special of Ojay's trial, and it was Johnny Cochran and

523
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:17,200
Speaker 2: all the lawyers basically just tattling on how they manipulated

524
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 2: everything and everyone to get to the end, and they.

525
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,119
Speaker 1: Were so proud of their legal prowess and being around

526
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,119
Speaker 1: lawyers and some that people.

527
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 2: Can come in a room and be high fiving someone

528
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:28,000
Speaker 2: they know is a fucking criminal just because they did

529
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 2: a better job at convincing everyone in the room.

530
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:32,440
Speaker 1: That's like, I want to grab my pearls.

531
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 4: I don't like I know, I agree with you. At

532
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:37,159
Speaker 4: the end of the day, it comes down to theatrics.

533
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 4: A lot and a lot of a.

534
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:42,920
Speaker 3: Trial is nothing more than who is the more convincing attorney,

535
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 3: who plays the part better, Who does the jury like better,

536
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 3: who's more likable, who's more attractive.

537
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:51,359
Speaker 2: The most important part of this entire trial was jury

538
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:56,399
Speaker 2: selection period. Absolutely, that is the most important part of

539
00:25:56,440 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 2: this trial. And imagine how much incredible testimony has been

540
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 2: has been put on the record during this time period,

541
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:07,600
Speaker 2: a very short time period, as you said, Yet the

542
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:10,520
Speaker 2: most important thing was jury selection, and they had some

543
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:14,160
Speaker 2: very strong people on the defense side choosing juries. And

544
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 2: of course ausas are very good at what they do

545
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:16,880
Speaker 2: as well.

546
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:18,920
Speaker 1: So you just you got a hope.

547
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:22,359
Speaker 2: But I you know, a more male jury than female

548
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:23,440
Speaker 2: scares me a bit.

549
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, I agree with that.

550
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 3: You know, let me ask you another question, because there's

551
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 3: been a lot of talk about this victim number three,

552
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:32,720
Speaker 3: who supposedly is named Gina, that now they can't find

553
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 3: to testify.

554
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 2: She's she's it's not that she can't be found, she's tweeting,

555
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,400
Speaker 2: right from what I From what I understand, she she's

556
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 2: sent out a tweet just saying she doesn't she wants

557
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:44,920
Speaker 2: to be private. Now you can go down a YouTube

558
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,720
Speaker 2: spiral again, you can find the interview that she gave

559
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 2: on a radio show discussing stomping a baby out of

560
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:54,720
Speaker 2: her paint, trying to pay her for an abortion that

561
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:57,199
Speaker 2: she willingly had because she didn't want to take his

562
00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:59,920
Speaker 2: money because she loved him. She's more of a soft

563
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 2: spoken sweet girls. It doesn't seem like she had any

564
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 2: career aspirations.

565
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,920
Speaker 3: Was she a girlfriend or just someone that she wasn't

566
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:09,440
Speaker 3: someone that worked? Did she work for him or was

567
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:10,200
Speaker 3: she a girlfriend?

568
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:12,400
Speaker 1: No, no, working for him.

569
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 2: I don't know what to call his girlfriend or not,

570
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 2: because he just seems to have thrown that around.

571
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 4: Loosely, right, loosely.

572
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:23,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't even know that anyone was a girlfriend

573
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,120
Speaker 2: because I think in order to call someone your girlfriend,

574
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 2: you have to care for them. And I don't know

575
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,919
Speaker 2: how much consideration was given to any of these people allegedly,

576
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 2: so I don't love that word. But no, she was

577
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 2: not working for him. She was not a worker at

578
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:41,880
Speaker 2: bad Boy. But they are going to establish medical records

579
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:44,120
Speaker 2: with a victim that is coming up. There was some

580
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 2: talk in a sidebar that they had about some type

581
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:52,440
Speaker 2: of medical records and it's being alluded to that there's

582
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 2: likely going to be a conversation about abortion, that there

583
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 2: is still a victim that is coming forward and speaking

584
00:27:57,600 --> 00:27:58,920
Speaker 2: that we have not heard from yet.

585
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:01,440
Speaker 3: I believe that's the is that the Jane, that is

586
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 3: who they're Jane that's coming up Jane.

587
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:06,679
Speaker 2: But I think more so what ends up happening in

588
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 2: a situation like that where somebody gets nervous at the

589
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 2: at the at the final point because their name is

590
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 2: about to be out there and they don't want that,

591
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:16,560
Speaker 2: so they want to then not come, I think a

592
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:18,199
Speaker 2: way to get because I think if you're subpoena and

593
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 2: you don't show up, that's you go to jail for that,

594
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 2: I believe.

595
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 1: Is that correct?

596
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:24,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's why the defense attorney I.

597
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:26,200
Speaker 2: Think they didn't pursue it, and I think they didn't

598
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 2: make a thing because I think that they probably did

599
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:30,680
Speaker 2: get in touch with the women the women were prop allegedly,

600
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 2: and the women were probably like, listen, I'm not going

601
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 2: to help you out if I get.

602
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 3: Up there, right, and then they don't want to take

603
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 3: that risk, so it's better to just not.

604
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 2: You don't want to take a risk if if you

605
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 2: paid attention in the media, they said one of the

606
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 2: victims dropped out. She never wanted to participate in any

607
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:47,800
Speaker 2: of it. She didn't want to talk to onland security,

608
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 2: she didn't want to be a part of the trial.

609
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 2: Who leaked that it certainly wasn't the prosecution, It certainly

610
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 2: wasn't pr for the AUSA. Her publicists or her people

611
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 2: leaked out that story that she wanted no parts because

612
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 2: she probably wanted to signal whoever to let them know

613
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 2: I wasn't going to tell on you.

614
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 3: Daddy, right exactly? So what else did you really allegedly?

615
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 3: What else did you take away from me as testimony

616
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 3: that you thought was interesting or was compelling for you?

617
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:18,720
Speaker 1: Shit? Let mean, oh well, here's just a sidebar.

618
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 2: It's becoming very obvious that he paid women way less

619
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 2: than he paid men. George Kaplan was given six figures.

620
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:27,720
Speaker 2: Capricorn and Mio were both paid her on I think

621
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 2: they said forty thousand, fifty thousand. That was interesting, and

622
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 2: they also were all harassed and abused.

623
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 3: I had a question to ask you because you have

624
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 3: personal experience with them, and I thought this is random,

625
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 3: but I found this interesting that I think on two

626
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 3: different occasions it has come up in testimony that I

627
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 3: think it was Gina, but I don't. It wasn't Gina testifying,

628
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 3: but it was someone testifying to an incident where apparently

629
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 3: Diddy threw apples at Gina, and then Mia was testifying.

630
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 3: I believe yesterday that he through spaghetti at her, and

631
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 3: I just was like, it was the food items that I.

632
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 4: Thought, and there were a god and they okay, right,

633
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 4: and I was like, allegedly allegedly, but what is that?

634
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 4: Is that a form of humiliation or a lack of.

635
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 3: Any type of control at all, that no matter what

636
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 3: is on the surface of a countertop, that you will

637
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:26,480
Speaker 3: just reach for it and assault someone.

638
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, basically, yeah, I don't Maybe he just happened to,

639
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 2: you know, eat more than he ever let us eat.

640
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 1: But I don't know.

641
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 2: Maybe there just was food was the most readily available

642
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 2: thing around. Maybe it has to do with comdowns or

643
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 2: come ups and when you're hungry and when your moods

644
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 2: get bad and when they who knows, But there's no

645
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 2: I don't think there's anything specific.

646
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 1: To the food being thrown. It just happened to have

647
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 1: been what was there.

648
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 3: I just found that interesting that in this testimony, like

649
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 3: food keeps coming up.

650
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 2: It was like, well, we certainly didn't have any when

651
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 2: we worked for it, So I'm glad somebody was being

652
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 2: said somebody's somebody's getting spaghetti. At this point, I don't

653
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 2: see any possible way after this testimony that twelve people

654
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 2: unanimously agree to acquit him.

655
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 1: I don't see it happening at all.

656
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 2: How do you feel, I don't even see a path

657
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 2: for twelve people acquitting him on all charges. It's not

658
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 2: even I don't even see it at all.

659
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 1: You're the one with a degree. Do you see any

660
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 1: lane for that?

661
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 2: No?

662
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 4: I don't.

663
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 3: I think I think the testimony has been too compelling.

664
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 3: I think the repetition of the repeated behaviors. It's not

665
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 3: like he got drunk one night and you know he

666
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 3: went all he went off the rails, which can happen

667
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 3: to people. I think it's a long established, repeated behavior,

668
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 3: over and over and over, and it goes down. I mean,

669
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 3: it boils down to the fact that he's a cruel

670
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 3: man's it's cruelty. It's about power, it's about corrosion, it's

671
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 3: about it. It's evil, it's cruel and I think I

672
00:31:58,160 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 3: don't think the jury can get past that.

673
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 1: Can you give the definition legally in Layman's terms.

674
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 2: I suppose for the audience about what coercion is, because

675
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 2: half the people I talk to can't even say the

676
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 2: word correctly, and I think people just are too embarrassed

677
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 2: to ask.

678
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 1: I don't really know what that means.

679
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, I don't know. If I could give.

680
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:19,239
Speaker 2: The chattypt it my CHATGYPG loves me it gets back

681
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:19,479
Speaker 2: to there.

682
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 3: I mean, i'd have to actually google. The legal definition

683
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 3: of coersion.

684
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 2: Is the legal definition of coercion, Okay, The legal definition

685
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 2: of coercion generally refers to the use of force, threats,

686
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 2: or intimidation to compel someone to act against their will.

687
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 2: Key elements of coercion threat or use of force.

688
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 1: They've proved it.

689
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 2: Lack of con lack of consent. They've proved it intent.

690
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 2: The perpetrator intends to control or manipulate the person the

691
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 2: victim's decision making.

692
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 1: That's there.

693
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 2: They've proved that resulting action the victim performs in act

694
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 2: or refrains from one that they otherwise wouldn't have done freely.

695
00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 2: They've proved all key elements of coersion with multiple witnesses.

696
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 4: Yeah.

697
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 3: Absolutely, And even when people are acting as the defense

698
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 3: would claim willingly because they're showing up or they're carrying things,

699
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 3: or they're carrying out these these demands. If they claim,

700
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 3: like with free will, there isn't free will. You know

701
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:22,240
Speaker 3: that there's no free will. You know that there's repercussions later.

702
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 2: I don't know that I've ever really had free will

703
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 2: my entire career. Sadly, if you made me think for

704
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 2: a second as you were saying that, I definitely could

705
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 2: like bob my head, yes for them making the band aids.

706
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 2: But there's always somebody controlling your narrative. And as you

707
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 2: get further, I mean, I've been doing this since I

708
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 2: was a kid, and I'm forty one now, so over

709
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 2: two decades I've been in the industry and haven't had

710
00:33:56,360 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 2: another job. There is always somebody bigger than the person

711
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:02,719
Speaker 2: you thought was the biggest.

712
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 1: There is always some uniform plan.

713
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,719
Speaker 2: There is always a schedule and a time and a

714
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 2: place and the right thing to say and the right

715
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:14,800
Speaker 2: person to say it. And when you get your shot,

716
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:19,359
Speaker 2: you go, and if you don't, you don't. And I

717
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 2: don't know that I've ever just been People see me

718
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 2: as someone that is so confident and they love to

719
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 2: jump on the train the second that this all came

720
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 2: down and say, Aubrey told us so. She told us

721
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:32,320
Speaker 2: so for twenty years. She's been telling us he was

722
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 2: a dangerous person. He wasn't somebody that was safe to

723
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 2: work for. And like that's great and all. And I

724
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:43,319
Speaker 2: guess that whatever has decided that I am somebody that

725
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 2: is going to be a voice. I mean, I'm a

726
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 2: voice right now on this platform for this.

727
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:52,760
Speaker 1: But I don't know how free the will is of anything, really, because.

728
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 2: A lot of times I feel the system already has

729
00:34:56,480 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 2: decided things. So I just like, I think the jury

730
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:04,919
Speaker 2: is a piece of this puzzle. That is just who

731
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:07,440
Speaker 2: they are as people and how they are going to

732
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:11,120
Speaker 2: interpret the information that they have been given. They are

733
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 2: just going to interpret it as so we can't really

734
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 2: make a call for them. I mean, I know that

735
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:19,759
Speaker 2: they give you jury instructions. I've never personally sat on

736
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 2: a jury, but I think you have to be able

737
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 2: to like check off boxes yes or no, to like

738
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:28,280
Speaker 2: walk you to an answer if you're having a problem.

739
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 2: So they will have to hold themselves a bit accountable.

740
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 2: I'm assuming, but I don't know. You know, I didn't

741
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 2: there was no part of me that thought oj didn't

742
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 2: kill on Nicole, but yet he wasn't convicted.

743
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:43,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's mind blowing.

744
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:46,799
Speaker 1: Let me tell let's talk about a world where that happens. Now.

745
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 2: You know, one thing I've had a little slight fear

746
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 2: of is and I've made a clear in documented form

747
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 2: just in case it happened, so that the record could

748
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 2: show I was right again. But it worries me that

749
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:05,800
Speaker 2: politics and entertainment tend to mirror each other pretty pretty closely.

750
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 2: We've seen a lot of things happening politically lately that

751
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:13,320
Speaker 2: are like chalking. Whether you like someone or don't like someone,

752
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 2: there's a lot of movements that are just like what chaotic?

753
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:19,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, I did not think that that could happen, whether

754
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 1: I like you or not. I didn't think all that

755
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:21,320
Speaker 1: could happen.

756
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:25,359
Speaker 2: Now over here, What if there's a scenario where I

757
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 2: didn't think that that could happen. In the beginning, before

758
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 2: MIA's to me, I am standing steady on ten toes

759
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 2: after Mia. Before Mia, I thought maybe the prosecution might

760
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 2: feel they get to a place where they've proven one,

761
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 2: three and four but not two and five, and they

762
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:44,320
Speaker 2: might give a plea and we might see a trial

763
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 2: this big and a person this big take a plea,

764
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 2: and what the jury felt doesn't really even matter, because

765
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 2: they can all the way up until the jury comes back,

766
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:56,279
Speaker 2: if they feel that there's any point that they're losing on,

767
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 2: they can offer a plea. And that's not something that

768
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:01,839
Speaker 2: I think anyone sees reg and so they don't necessarily

769
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 2: even understand that that is a possibility.

770
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:06,839
Speaker 3: It's a possibility, but I'll tell you just based upon

771
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 3: the little that I know of him, I don't think

772
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 3: he would take a plea deal.

773
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 2: Well, he didn't take the first one, but I think

774
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 2: after me he should start considering it.

775
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 1: It's looking pretty bad.

776
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:22,319
Speaker 3: But when someone has been in the world that he's

777
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 3: been in, with people catering to his every whim, you

778
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:30,319
Speaker 3: don't think like a rational, reasonable person. You think that

779
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:32,800
Speaker 3: you're always going to win and you're always going to

780
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 3: get away with it.

781
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 1: I don't.

782
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,400
Speaker 2: I don't even think he's had enough time to process

783
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:42,800
Speaker 2: the level of colossal destruction that he has created across

784
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 2: so many lives. I don't even think he started at

785
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:48,440
Speaker 2: that yet, because he was still in court in the

786
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 2: very beginning, having his lawyers fight to get Cassie's husband

787
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:55,360
Speaker 2: taking out talking about the husband sent him threatening messages

788
00:37:55,400 --> 00:38:00,080
Speaker 2: threatening him twenty however, many years ago, threatening him that

789
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 2: you know, after he found out what happened to Cassie,

790
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:05,239
Speaker 2: and my client's life was threatened, so he can't be

791
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:07,080
Speaker 2: in court next to him. Are you fucking kidding me?

792
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 2: There's not a day in Diddy's life that he was

793
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:09,280
Speaker 2: scared of Alex.

794
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:09,640
Speaker 1: Fine.

795
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a maneuver to get to make Cassie

796
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 2: weaker and to not be able to have somebody to

797
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:17,919
Speaker 2: connect with on that stand in my opinion, and I think,

798
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:20,760
Speaker 2: you know, that's a good lawyering move, but a shitty

799
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:23,960
Speaker 2: moral move, which is why again I don't love lawyers

800
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 2: that are big defense criminal defense lawyers and situations like this,

801
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:31,240
Speaker 2: it's an icky.

802
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 1: I respect them because they're really good at what they do.

803
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:37,880
Speaker 2: The eight pack of white women was effective racially. I

804
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:39,879
Speaker 2: know a lot of people that were like, why all

805
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:42,239
Speaker 2: white women? That's not a good look. I don't like

806
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:44,239
Speaker 2: the way this feels. I felt it even and I

807
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:46,799
Speaker 2: was scared to say it, but I was like, I mean,

808
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 2: it shouldn't come down to race. It should come down

809
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:50,720
Speaker 2: to who's most qualified to take on a case.

810
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:53,960
Speaker 4: But Optics are everyone.

811
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:56,760
Speaker 1: I know, well, optics are everything in a courtroom. Everyone.

812
00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:00,080
Speaker 2: When they saw Cassie's pregnant belly, everyone was like, damn it,

813
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:01,759
Speaker 2: he'd better come with more than gray hair.

814
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 3: Well, you know, the defense made a motion that they

815
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 3: didn't want Cassie.

816
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:07,920
Speaker 1: Them to be able to see her belly.

817
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 4: Yes, they wanted her seated before the jury came into.

818
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 2: I know, there were a lot of little tactics that

819
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:18,319
Speaker 2: showed me, Okay, he's still either the lawyers are just.

820
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:19,759
Speaker 1: Really good in telling him what to do.

821
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 2: I don't know the fact that he's throwing love hearts

822
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:25,719
Speaker 2: and all of that bullshit. Still like, I just can

823
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:28,759
Speaker 2: you show us a signal of accountability so if you

824
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 2: do get off on anything, like, all the people that

825
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 2: have been in your path of destruction can feel like

826
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 2: safe staying alive on this earth.

827
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:42,440
Speaker 4: Here's another question, And I feel like this maybe.

828
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:48,399
Speaker 3: Feeds into his narcissism or ego or whatever you want

829
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:48,839
Speaker 3: to call it.

830
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 4: The fact that he has his children sitting in the courtroom.

831
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 2: I already said this on the very first podcast is mind.

832
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 4: Boggling to me, mind boggling.

833
00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 2: What I've asked every type of every time race age

834
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 2: range of man that I know, would you want your

835
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 2: would you want or even allow if it meant you

836
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:09,560
Speaker 2: could look better in front of a jury? Would you

837
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:13,400
Speaker 2: let your daughters hear about how you were slipping, slurping,

838
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:15,760
Speaker 2: slapping and popping it off every which.

839
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 1: Way in the freak offs?

840
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:20,879
Speaker 2: And every single man that I've spoken to, every single race,

841
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:25,439
Speaker 2: every single age range, was like absolutely not no, zero no.

842
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:28,600
Speaker 1: For me, I think it's a choice.

843
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 3: Yes, and would you not be completely embarrassed? And that's

844
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:35,480
Speaker 3: what makes me think that this is truly someone who's

845
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:39,680
Speaker 3: so narcissistic that they have no concept of what they've

846
00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:42,480
Speaker 3: done that they would allow their children and their mom.

847
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 3: What's his mom like eighties something or I don't know,

848
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:47,040
Speaker 3: like his elderly mom to be.

849
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:49,400
Speaker 2: You have you done any research on his mom and

850
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 2: what her work was and things like that.

851
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:53,919
Speaker 3: I don't know anything about his mom. Is that another

852
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:55,600
Speaker 3: rabbit hole that I need to go down?

853
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 4: I'm laying in.

854
00:40:56,680 --> 00:41:03,400
Speaker 2: Bed, probably allegedly probably allegedly, Okay, all right, but I

855
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:06,560
Speaker 2: think you know, I think for me, and this is sound,

856
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:08,399
Speaker 2: this is going to sound crazy because I don't even

857
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:11,440
Speaker 2: think it's a smart legal thing to do. But he's

858
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:14,919
Speaker 2: so down and out with the testimony. At this point,

859
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:17,400
Speaker 2: I feel all of the key things have been established,

860
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:21,200
Speaker 2: from racketeering to sex trafficking to definitely possessing people across

861
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:21,680
Speaker 2: state lines.

862
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:22,920
Speaker 1: Those are all five counts.

863
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 2: I think at this point you need to tell a

864
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:32,919
Speaker 2: very strong tale of how hurt people hurt people. I'm

865
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:35,839
Speaker 2: gonna need to know how he was hurt and why

866
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:38,279
Speaker 2: he hurt others, and I still would have to call

867
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:40,759
Speaker 2: him guilty because the facts of the crimes are the

868
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 2: facts of the crimes.

869
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:42,760
Speaker 1: But at least if.

870
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 2: I heard, maybe if I were a jury member that

871
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:48,799
Speaker 2: doesn't understand facts and crimes, if you told me why

872
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 2: this hurt person hurt people and his hurt was so

873
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 2: deep that.

874
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:53,399
Speaker 1: It fucked me up.

875
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:56,680
Speaker 2: Those are the times where I've had sympathy for him

876
00:41:56,719 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 2: along the way prior to getting into everyone's testimony, just

877
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:03,239
Speaker 2: based off of my general assessment of the time that

878
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:05,200
Speaker 2: I was in and knowledge of the times where I

879
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 2: was not in but had very reliable people that were

880
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 2: in it along the way telling me everything.

881
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:15,399
Speaker 3: So you're saying the only way that you would feel

882
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:18,359
Speaker 3: any ounce of sympathy is if there was some testimony

883
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 3: that went to him being hurt so severely.

884
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:26,960
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm I was able to have sympathy

885
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:29,680
Speaker 1: at the beginning of the trial. I'm not getting it anymore.

886
00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:34,800
Speaker 1: It's not in me. No, no, no, I'm out none none.

887
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:39,280
Speaker 2: Now we're now, we're getting into territory where the alleged

888
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:43,320
Speaker 2: sexual assaults are looking different than staged events.

889
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:45,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're looking just.

890
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:51,320
Speaker 2: Like as also Cassie alleged rape. That scares me deeply

891
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:53,400
Speaker 2: for all the unknowns in my own life.

892
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 1: U we're breaking patterns.

893
00:42:57,200 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 2: Now, we're going into territories that are different, and that

894
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:03,400
Speaker 2: concerns me.

895
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:04,480
Speaker 1: I've lost the.

896
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:08,880
Speaker 2: Compassion card in the beginning when you have eighty civil

897
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:12,759
Speaker 2: suits and a lot of chaos, and I know some

898
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:16,120
Speaker 2: a good amount of the players, and I know you know.

899
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 2: I had a bandmate that took the stand and it

900
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 2: was heavily reported that she was inconsistent and a lot

901
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:25,279
Speaker 2: of her testimony. You know, I've known her to be inconsistent.

902
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:29,360
Speaker 2: So imagine prior to all of this, knowing I believe

903
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:32,839
Speaker 2: this person is inconsistent in the experiences that I've had

904
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 2: with her, unfortunately a good amount.

905
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:37,799
Speaker 4: So did you think did you think her testimony helped

906
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 4: her hurt the prosecution.

907
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:43,160
Speaker 2: I think it did nothing if I'm being nice, If I'm.

908
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:46,680
Speaker 1: Being like you, judge, it hurt a little.

909
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:48,920
Speaker 2: It was the wrong It was the wrong thing right

910
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 2: after Cassie to have somebody. The thing that I didn't

911
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 2: love is the inconsistencies came within the depositions that the

912
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:56,880
Speaker 2: prosecution took. They didn't even have to bring up anything

913
00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:58,000
Speaker 2: on her that they may have had.

914
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:00,440
Speaker 3: Right, So you're saying, why bring it up if it's

915
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:02,680
Speaker 3: going to be an inconsistent statement, and then your witnesses

916
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:05,880
Speaker 3: doesn't look credible in court, and Cassie.

917
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:07,440
Speaker 2: Was believable to everybody that left the.

918
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:08,319
Speaker 1: Court room and talked to me.

919
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:11,920
Speaker 2: So I don't think we needed and we didn't need

920
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:13,839
Speaker 2: to double down on the fact that she got hit

921
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:17,719
Speaker 2: because there's a video of her beatings. Everybody knows what

922
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:20,480
Speaker 2: the beating looks like. We can't get it out of

923
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:21,319
Speaker 2: our souls.

924
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:23,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, what's your take on that video? Who do you

925
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:26,359
Speaker 3: think leaked it? Do you think it was someone in.

926
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:29,719
Speaker 2: I can't see on the hotel side, I can't say.

927
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:32,080
Speaker 4: Well, here's what's interesting.

928
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 1: Is that there is a group of us.

929
00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 2: I keep trying to get them to be able to

930
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:38,000
Speaker 2: be on the podcast with me, you know, because this

931
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:40,960
Speaker 2: started almost about two years ago. For a lot of us,

932
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:43,919
Speaker 2: and all the things that people were being shocked by

933
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:46,480
Speaker 2: in the past two years, we knew very.

934
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:47,759
Speaker 4: Long lin some of them.

935
00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, some of it we've known since we've been there.

936
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:53,080
Speaker 2: Other things we've known when down, dude, we know every

937
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:56,560
Speaker 2: graphic detail. No, but we knew plenty of I knew

938
00:44:56,840 --> 00:44:58,319
Speaker 2: a few of the prostitutes.

939
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:00,360
Speaker 1: I knew the person that owns the place it was

940
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:00,879
Speaker 1: giving the.

941
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:04,200
Speaker 2: Prostitutes to the that they were calling. I knew one

942
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:08,239
Speaker 2: of the prostitutes was in prison. It was on Jigglos allsurely.

943
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:09,360
Speaker 4: The guy that killed his girlfriend.

944
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:12,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he said he told them no, it's not true.

945
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:14,200
Speaker 2: But then his face was up on.

946
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:16,680
Speaker 1: That posterboard in court and I was like, that's into Wait,

947
00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:17,040
Speaker 1: are you.

948
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:20,360
Speaker 4: Talking about the what's the guy's name then or whatever?

949
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:21,680
Speaker 4: The bald guy or you take.

950
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:22,480
Speaker 1: A guy from Jigglos.

951
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:24,880
Speaker 4: Well, there was two guys that were up there from Jigglos.

952
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:27,239
Speaker 2: I think the other guy did an interview talking about

953
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:29,880
Speaker 2: he was on deck for it but never got called. Basically,

954
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:32,760
Speaker 2: stop interviewing. No one gives a fuck stop inserting yourself

955
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:35,280
Speaker 2: in a moment that isn't about you, which is technically

956
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:38,680
Speaker 2: how I felt about, like even.

957
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 1: Doing this podcast. I didn't want to do it.

958
00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 2: I was saying no for a very long time. In

959
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 2: the ninth inning, it got presented to me in a

960
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 2: different fashion, and then I felt a little bit more.

961
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:53,359
Speaker 1: I learned a little bit more about the.

962
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:55,759
Speaker 2: Personal side of things that I'm still trying to figure out,

963
00:45:55,760 --> 00:46:00,160
Speaker 2: and that frustrated me. And then this people came to

964
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:01,840
Speaker 2: me on this side and told me a way to

965
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:06,080
Speaker 2: do this that felt more credible and less like Wendy Williams.

966
00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:09,080
Speaker 3: Even though I love Wendy, you mean less less gossipy,

967
00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 3: tabloidy more.

968
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:13,279
Speaker 2: I didn't really you know, I don't want to sit

969
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:15,920
Speaker 2: on a podcast every day and be interviewed about the dark,

970
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:19,560
Speaker 2: evil ways I established in the very beginning. I don't

971
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:22,279
Speaker 2: have an ending that I want to see at the

972
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:24,680
Speaker 2: end of this. As more testimony goes on, I'm getting

973
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:25,560
Speaker 2: a little more heated.

974
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:26,640
Speaker 1: I gotta be real with you.

975
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:30,120
Speaker 2: I have to like pace myself in between these podcasts

976
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:31,799
Speaker 2: and make sure that I come back down to a

977
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 2: place where my biases aren't popping up because I have them,

978
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:37,640
Speaker 2: I said it day one.

979
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:41,040
Speaker 1: I can't not have them. My entire life turned out.

980
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:42,759
Speaker 2: To be something different than what it would have been

981
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 2: had I never met him. He course shifted my life.

982
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:50,359
Speaker 2: He course shifted many people's lives. He not only course

983
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:53,000
Speaker 2: shifted my life, he course shifted my understanding of myself

984
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:55,600
Speaker 2: as a woman, which likely course shifted all the men

985
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:57,279
Speaker 2: that I chose to date in life and how I

986
00:46:57,280 --> 00:46:59,919
Speaker 2: found myself valuable. Like I said, I was a nerd,

987
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:01,440
Speaker 2: I was into the law.

988
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:02,680
Speaker 1: I was a geek.

989
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:05,319
Speaker 2: I didn't really have a lot of friends. All of

990
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 2: a sudden, I was the looker. There was a lot

991
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:10,800
Speaker 2: of pressure in that my toenails had to be perfect

992
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:12,480
Speaker 2: when I walked into a room or else I would

993
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:16,239
Speaker 2: get berated. I didn't even think about my toenails before that, right,

994
00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:19,160
Speaker 2: you know. I learned to groom myself properly and look

995
00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:21,200
Speaker 2: certain ways and be certain ways. And when it was

996
00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:23,720
Speaker 2: just when I disappointed him, I felt like I was ugly.

997
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:27,120
Speaker 2: And then for my whole life, I've been a fucking tabloid,

998
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 2: A tabloid character to say I'm either obese, I'm this,

999
00:47:33,719 --> 00:47:36,400
Speaker 2: I'm a plastic surgery nightmare that ass is fake or

1000
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:39,360
Speaker 2: tits are fake. She photos or shops herself in fucking vacation,

1001
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:42,879
Speaker 2: she's this, she's that. I can't fucking breathe without being

1002
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 2: attacked for that looker card that did he put on me.

1003
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:49,240
Speaker 2: And I didn't give two fucks about the way I looked.

1004
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:53,280
Speaker 2: I was into the law. Yeah, I was a geek.

1005
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:57,319
Speaker 1: I read, I have books. I don't even I haven't

1006
00:47:57,320 --> 00:47:58,840
Speaker 1: had sex in two years.

1007
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:01,360
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm you could be both. You could be

1008
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:03,440
Speaker 4: sexy and smart at the same time.

1009
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:03,759
Speaker 1: Though.

1010
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:06,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, And by the way, as I get older, i'm

1011
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:09,400
Speaker 2: when I choose to embrace those things. Therefore, me and

1012
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:12,640
Speaker 2: I come at them with confidence. And it's my own confidence,

1013
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:14,920
Speaker 2: it's not the confidence that was derived by.

1014
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:18,680
Speaker 1: A interpretation of me.

1015
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:20,560
Speaker 2: But I will say, all the way up even toil

1016
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:23,879
Speaker 2: last year, I'm I was working non stop last year,

1017
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 2: everybody wanted.

1018
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:25,880
Speaker 1: To book a ditty victim.

1019
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:28,840
Speaker 2: And I'm not allowed to say things like that, because

1020
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:31,840
Speaker 2: I should be grateful that I got opportunities to sing again,

1021
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:35,120
Speaker 2: to be on TV shows again, that neck works grace

1022
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:39,120
Speaker 2: me with their presence, But they really wanted to push

1023
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:40,279
Speaker 2: that diddy victim shit.

1024
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:41,960
Speaker 1: And then there were some that I.

1025
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:45,839
Speaker 2: Openly and honestly like felt and trusted. There's one coming

1026
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:48,239
Speaker 2: out that I felt safe with and trusted, and in

1027
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:51,640
Speaker 2: that scenario, they got me. On the indictment day on camera,

1028
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:54,880
Speaker 2: I met the man on camera and I learned of

1029
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:58,400
Speaker 2: his indictment on in front of the world.

1030
00:48:58,880 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 1: I haven't had.

1031
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:03,759
Speaker 2: A moment to form myself off of a camera, and

1032
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:07,560
Speaker 2: so long I don't. Sometimes when I'm not on a camera,

1033
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:09,520
Speaker 2: I don't really know what the fuck life is.

1034
00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:13,880
Speaker 1: My dogs and one of them just passed sadly.

1035
00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:15,759
Speaker 3: Can I tell you something that you just said that

1036
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:18,120
Speaker 3: I wish I could turn my camera because I literally

1037
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:20,359
Speaker 3: have two dogs laying right behind me right now.

1038
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:21,399
Speaker 1: I love it.

1039
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:25,000
Speaker 4: I feel like we're the same heart. They're all rescues.

1040
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:26,960
Speaker 4: I have three purebread rescues, so.

1041
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:29,520
Speaker 1: They have a rescue too. He's still alive.

1042
00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:32,880
Speaker 3: I lost a Pomeranian a couple of years ago. It

1043
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:35,719
Speaker 3: was like the worst heartbreak of my entire life. He

1044
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:38,879
Speaker 3: was twelve years old. I still haven't recovered. Then I've

1045
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:43,120
Speaker 3: got a German Shepherd rescue, I've got a cattle dog rescue,

1046
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:45,520
Speaker 3: and then I've got like a little pit bull mix

1047
00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:46,319
Speaker 3: somewhere around here.

1048
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:46,920
Speaker 4: Rescue.

1049
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:50,600
Speaker 3: So I have dogs and I read books all the

1050
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:52,240
Speaker 3: time and I'm a huge nerd.

1051
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:55,840
Speaker 2: So Amy said that we would get along fantastically, you

1052
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:56,439
Speaker 2: know what I said.

1053
00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:59,040
Speaker 1: I was like, I was like, she's a housewife. I

1054
00:49:59,080 --> 00:49:59,440
Speaker 1: don't know.

1055
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:02,840
Speaker 2: She's like, no, she's smart, she's savvy, like blah blah blah.

1056
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 2: And then I was like, I saw she sent me

1057
00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:06,399
Speaker 2: your picture, and I'm like, she's beautiful. So now you're

1058
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:10,240
Speaker 2: gonna have two white bitches talking about a case where

1059
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:13,799
Speaker 2: there have been implications that there are racially charged situations

1060
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:18,440
Speaker 2: occurring by whoever the fuck is race baiting in that situation.

1061
00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:21,360
Speaker 2: And like, for me, I was like, optics wise, don't

1062
00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:24,760
Speaker 2: I don't love that. And I just I'm so happy

1063
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:28,319
Speaker 2: that I didn't run with the optics card because you're

1064
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:31,040
Speaker 2: so great and you understand all of this so well,

1065
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:34,360
Speaker 2: and this has been so refreshing, and this is a

1066
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:37,040
Speaker 2: work in progress type of show, you know, Like I

1067
00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:39,759
Speaker 2: don't want to be a journalist, I don't want to

1068
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:42,680
Speaker 2: be a podcaster. I don't even really want to be

1069
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:45,880
Speaker 2: in the industry anymore. I was definitely sliding on my

1070
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:49,760
Speaker 2: way out and moving on, and I was definitely gonna

1071
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:53,359
Speaker 2: be like out of the country and on vacation during

1072
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:56,160
Speaker 2: this trial and finding the piece that I needed within.

1073
00:50:56,760 --> 00:50:59,680
Speaker 1: But as I go episode through episode.

1074
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:02,080
Speaker 2: And meet new people along the journey, and some like you,

1075
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:05,279
Speaker 2: I'm just absolutely falling in love with. I think as

1076
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:08,879
Speaker 2: I go further in it, I'm learning. I'm learning more

1077
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:12,319
Speaker 2: about why this is, this project has the purpose that

1078
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:14,759
Speaker 2: I was told it would have.

1079
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:17,840
Speaker 3: Well, I think from my perspective looking at you in

1080
00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:19,960
Speaker 3: the way that you speak about it, you know when

1081
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:21,799
Speaker 3: I when I talk about it with my husband and

1082
00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:24,160
Speaker 3: we do it. It's just straight from a legal perspective.

1083
00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:27,200
Speaker 3: And it's very linear because I only I don't know him,

1084
00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:28,600
Speaker 3: I don't have personal experience.

1085
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:30,279
Speaker 2: All the podcasts are linear, and this is the only

1086
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:32,440
Speaker 2: one offering something different exactly.

1087
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:35,120
Speaker 3: And I think maybe and I understand you not wanting

1088
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:37,040
Speaker 3: to go into it, not wanting to talk about it,

1089
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:40,160
Speaker 3: trying to protect yourself, protect your emotions.

1090
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:42,240
Speaker 2: And contracts and everything. I have so much fucking pressure

1091
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:44,200
Speaker 2: on my shoulders and I have other jobs that I'm

1092
00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:46,799
Speaker 2: not doing. I mean fashion, Noah has not seen a

1093
00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:47,840
Speaker 2: post in a few weeks.

1094
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:49,680
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get fires a brand ambassador.

1095
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:52,200
Speaker 4: Miss you got to get your outfits together, get your

1096
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:53,600
Speaker 4: content together. What do you want.

1097
00:51:55,560 --> 00:51:59,279
Speaker 2: Looking at this many papers of notes, analyzing testimony and

1098
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:02,040
Speaker 2: figuring out how everything works.

1099
00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:04,120
Speaker 3: I know I do the same thing. I spend so

1100
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:07,799
Speaker 3: much time doing legal research. It's insane, but I love

1101
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:08,960
Speaker 3: it like I enjoy it.

1102
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:11,359
Speaker 4: Do you enjoy it? Because I enjoy it? That's how

1103
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:12,720
Speaker 4: I know I'm a huge nerd.

1104
00:52:21,719 --> 00:52:24,480
Speaker 2: When the narrative started to shift in regards to where

1105
00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:30,080
Speaker 2: Puff's behavior is starting to shift into other areas besides

1106
00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:35,759
Speaker 2: these you know, dramatic events, you know, I'm getting a

1107
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:39,479
Speaker 2: little it's getting a little more personal, little more upsetting, and.

1108
00:52:42,239 --> 00:52:44,120
Speaker 1: I just the the I can't.

1109
00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:47,480
Speaker 2: I don't know why I had to have my life

1110
00:52:47,560 --> 00:52:51,279
Speaker 2: intersect with his. I think everybody that has ever been

1111
00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:54,080
Speaker 2: close enough with him that you know, when they were

1112
00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:57,200
Speaker 2: criticizing her, when Brian was saying, oh, you said you

1113
00:52:57,239 --> 00:52:58,840
Speaker 2: love him in this text, I was like, I've.

1114
00:52:58,680 --> 00:52:59,919
Speaker 1: Told Puff I love him before.

1115
00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:03,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, we all loved him, and yet we were all

1116
00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:08,040
Speaker 2: traumatized by him, and yet we all found ourselves.

1117
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:11,680
Speaker 1: I finished a TV show that did a number.

1118
00:53:11,400 --> 00:53:14,799
Speaker 2: On me last year, and I walked out and called

1119
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:17,120
Speaker 2: my agent and I was like, days like this I

1120
00:53:17,200 --> 00:53:21,319
Speaker 2: literally miss Puff because he would have never allowed any

1121
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:25,040
Speaker 2: of these fucking ignorant ass people that are younger than

1122
00:53:25,080 --> 00:53:29,040
Speaker 2: me professionalist fuck letting stupid ship fly on set, not

1123
00:53:29,239 --> 00:53:32,640
Speaker 2: following HR policies like it was a hot fucking mess

1124
00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:37,120
Speaker 2: of debacley going on and not even like properly produced,

1125
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:38,440
Speaker 2: if that's what y'all are trying to do.

1126
00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:39,920
Speaker 1: Messy as fuck.

1127
00:53:40,239 --> 00:53:43,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, Puff would have had put everybody's ass would have

1128
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:45,960
Speaker 2: been in line, everybody, he would have been scared, everybody

1129
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:48,080
Speaker 2: would have had their get right on, and nobody would

1130
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:49,880
Speaker 2: have ever come to set with sleep in their eyes.

1131
00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:53,239
Speaker 2: Half the fucking cast had crust in their eyes. And

1132
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:55,239
Speaker 2: for me, I was just like the discipline that I

1133
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:57,960
Speaker 2: had back in those days. I would like I would

1134
00:53:58,040 --> 00:54:01,400
Speaker 2: come to set work all of it because it was

1135
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:03,680
Speaker 2: all those things right, cameras up, and it was my job,

1136
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:05,600
Speaker 2: and I had to perform and sing in the studio

1137
00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:09,640
Speaker 2: everywhere me was my job. I'd have to wake up

1138
00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:11,839
Speaker 2: with cameras in front of me, get ready with cameras.

1139
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:11,920
Speaker 1: In front of me.

1140
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:14,560
Speaker 2: Everything was always had to be so perfect with him

1141
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:18,000
Speaker 2: that I'm so disciplined that even on sets nowadays, the

1142
00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:20,520
Speaker 2: whole cast had The commentary they had about me when

1143
00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:21,200
Speaker 2: they didn't know me.

1144
00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:24,920
Speaker 1: Was She's always so she was always just so put together.

1145
00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:27,000
Speaker 2: She always just like she comes down in the morning,

1146
00:54:27,080 --> 00:54:29,279
Speaker 2: it's like, girl, we're all in pj's, Like you're in

1147
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:33,040
Speaker 2: an outfit with your hair done and your makeup on. Yeah,

1148
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:36,239
Speaker 2: we're literally filming a TV show that lasts for like

1149
00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:39,239
Speaker 2: two weeks. Can none of you guys, I didn't even

1150
00:54:39,239 --> 00:54:40,880
Speaker 2: hear a shower go off this morning.

1151
00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:45,359
Speaker 1: None of you are even washed. Like, I don't understand that.

1152
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:46,319
Speaker 4: Thank you.

1153
00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:48,279
Speaker 1: If that's why you dislike me, thank you.

1154
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:51,640
Speaker 2: That's a compliment that to the type of discipline that

1155
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:55,000
Speaker 2: PUFF put me under. However, what I'm learning is maybe

1156
00:54:55,040 --> 00:54:58,440
Speaker 2: that side of me is also a little unhealthy because

1157
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:03,279
Speaker 2: I am constant in that presentation mode and everything that

1158
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:05,680
Speaker 2: I do in life until I go to sleep that

1159
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:10,360
Speaker 2: I don't necessarily you know. Fuck, the one fucking time

1160
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:12,279
Speaker 2: that I was like, oh and I was, I did

1161
00:55:12,280 --> 00:55:14,400
Speaker 2: not look like the pictures. I'll stay I'll say that

1162
00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:16,480
Speaker 2: for the rest of my life. But the one time

1163
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:19,439
Speaker 2: I was cause slipping no outfit on, looking like shit

1164
00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:22,799
Speaker 2: heavy during COVID, not as heavy as the photos, but

1165
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:27,160
Speaker 2: heavy during COVID and slipping uh. That turned into a

1166
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:30,600
Speaker 2: goddamn nightmare, made me lose a million fucking jobs, made

1167
00:55:30,640 --> 00:55:33,040
Speaker 2: me this big fucking loser that's lost at all. You

1168
00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:35,880
Speaker 2: can't even google me without seeing those photos. And I

1169
00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:38,480
Speaker 2: have been on Broadway to Playboy, to having my own

1170
00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:41,680
Speaker 2: television show, to doing every other reality TV.

1171
00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:43,919
Speaker 1: Show on the fucking Earth, to the podcast. Now.

1172
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:46,600
Speaker 2: I don't know, Alane, that I haven't entered. I've literally

1173
00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:50,000
Speaker 2: done all of it really well and have platinum albums.

1174
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:53,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, but what sucks, as you're saying, I google you,

1175
00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:55,920
Speaker 3: which I've never done. But if I google you right now,

1176
00:55:56,239 --> 00:55:57,920
Speaker 3: the fat photos are gonna shut up.

1177
00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:01,920
Speaker 2: You'll get fat photos, you'll get Trump Junior, you'll get

1178
00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:07,279
Speaker 2: poly d and you'll get puff every fucking man or

1179
00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:11,360
Speaker 2: ugly time. And by the way, there's not several fat photos.

1180
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:15,520
Speaker 2: There's that one whole selection of that one moment in time.

1181
00:56:15,560 --> 00:56:17,960
Speaker 3: But that one time period, a one isolated event, and

1182
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:18,919
Speaker 3: that's all that's out there.

1183
00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:23,359
Speaker 2: One isolated event is now summarized me and every and

1184
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:25,600
Speaker 2: do you know like what that does to someone that's

1185
00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:28,759
Speaker 2: been trained by Puff. It's like you might as well

1186
00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:31,959
Speaker 2: just kill yourself. You just fucking lost the.

1187
00:56:31,880 --> 00:56:32,480
Speaker 1: Ball, bitch.

1188
00:56:32,960 --> 00:56:37,080
Speaker 2: Now it's it's like that's the type of pressure that

1189
00:56:37,080 --> 00:56:39,880
Speaker 2: that we learned as a kid. At one point, my

1190
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:42,920
Speaker 2: bandmate passed Danity Kine. I had a band with another

1191
00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:46,360
Speaker 2: band made of mine, Shannon. Every day we'd wake up,

1192
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:49,120
Speaker 2: we're hustling, we're doing this tour, and I'd have to

1193
00:56:49,200 --> 00:56:51,080
Speaker 2: go through all the problems from the show before these

1194
00:56:51,120 --> 00:56:53,000
Speaker 2: need to be set. This guy's fucking up on his job.

1195
00:56:53,040 --> 00:56:54,799
Speaker 2: He's hitting the sound cues late. I need the lighting

1196
00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:57,279
Speaker 2: to come on early on this watching videos, figuring shit out,

1197
00:56:57,480 --> 00:57:00,200
Speaker 2: doing everybody's job. That's what I was trained by Puffed do,

1198
00:57:00,239 --> 00:57:02,279
Speaker 2: and that's what I do while I do everybody's job.

1199
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:06,880
Speaker 2: So as I'm doing all of that, I'm I'm Shannon's

1200
00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:09,280
Speaker 2: talking with the Starbucks person, super nice whatever.

1201
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:11,840
Speaker 1: Get in the car. She drives while I'm doing all

1202
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:12,280
Speaker 1: the work.

1203
00:57:12,680 --> 00:57:14,400
Speaker 2: And at one point she stopped and she was like,

1204
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:16,800
Speaker 2: we're at a venue and she's touching some brick and

1205
00:57:16,840 --> 00:57:19,760
Speaker 2: she goes, this is the last venue that Kurt Cobain

1206
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:21,960
Speaker 2: performed in and he signed this brick, Like this is

1207
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:24,000
Speaker 2: like pretty epic that we're performing here tonight.

1208
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:25,760
Speaker 1: I was like, Shannon the shoes.

1209
00:57:25,840 --> 00:57:28,040
Speaker 2: Name are the shoes on stage right, because last night

1210
00:57:28,080 --> 00:57:29,920
Speaker 2: you were late on matt is this is this, is

1211
00:57:29,960 --> 00:57:31,920
Speaker 2: this is this. And she looked at me and she

1212
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:34,600
Speaker 2: was like, ohbs, Like for one second, you need to

1213
00:57:34,920 --> 00:57:40,600
Speaker 2: like enjoy life. She's like, we have gone to Starbucks

1214
00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:43,920
Speaker 2: every morning for the past year of building this project.

1215
00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:46,040
Speaker 1: And you don't even know Carlos.

1216
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:48,160
Speaker 4: Who's Carlos theisa.

1217
00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:51,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, And Carlos' mom works in the deli and her

1218
00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:55,600
Speaker 2: name is Patty and she's really nice. And Carlos has

1219
00:57:55,640 --> 00:57:58,840
Speaker 2: a roommate and this and that and and she just

1220
00:57:58,840 --> 00:58:01,040
Speaker 2: told me this whole thing, and I I realized, Shit,

1221
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:02,640
Speaker 2: I'm just always like.

1222
00:58:03,240 --> 00:58:05,480
Speaker 1: This, yeah, fixing.

1223
00:58:06,040 --> 00:58:08,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I realized, like, and Shannon said, we learned

1224
00:58:08,960 --> 00:58:11,920
Speaker 2: that from puff And because Shannon was married prior and

1225
00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:14,640
Speaker 2: she goes back to a you know, bend organ and

1226
00:58:14,680 --> 00:58:18,560
Speaker 2: her husband and a very normal, slow paced life.

1227
00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:20,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, she could come out of it.

1228
00:58:20,720 --> 00:58:21,880
Speaker 1: She could come out of it.

1229
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:24,440
Speaker 2: And and she she would tell me all the time,

1230
00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:27,920
Speaker 2: like we were taught that you have to work so

1231
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:31,000
Speaker 2: hard to get to to the top of the mountain

1232
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:34,760
Speaker 2: when actually you could just casually walk up it at

1233
00:58:34,760 --> 00:58:39,000
Speaker 2: a pretty like decent steady pace that isn't painful, and

1234
00:58:39,080 --> 00:58:40,720
Speaker 2: you can get to the top and have had a

1235
00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:42,439
Speaker 2: pretty good life and enjoyed it too.

1236
00:58:42,920 --> 00:58:44,920
Speaker 4: You could pick some flowers on the way up.

1237
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:46,120
Speaker 1: Pick some flowers smell.

1238
00:58:46,160 --> 00:58:50,120
Speaker 2: Then you can even pitch a tent and maybe take

1239
00:58:50,200 --> 00:58:52,680
Speaker 2: some photos and walk a little faster the next day.

1240
00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:59,760
Speaker 2: Like it doesn't. We don't have to like be starved, sleepless.

1241
00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:02,680
Speaker 4: Out stressed to be successful.

1242
00:59:03,680 --> 00:59:07,200
Speaker 2: I still find a heart and I still see victim

1243
00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:11,120
Speaker 2: aspects in that, even though I know other people feel

1244
00:59:11,160 --> 00:59:13,840
Speaker 2: differently and I have to consider their stories as well.

1245
00:59:14,520 --> 00:59:16,480
Speaker 1: It's all very complicated and layered.

1246
00:59:16,920 --> 00:59:19,320
Speaker 2: But at the end, if you were to get charged

1247
00:59:19,320 --> 00:59:23,320
Speaker 2: on everything, I think i'd probably first feel pretty sad

1248
00:59:23,360 --> 00:59:23,760
Speaker 2: for him.

1249
00:59:24,280 --> 00:59:27,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, you have a level of sympathy in there still.

1250
00:59:28,120 --> 00:59:31,560
Speaker 2: You know, I said I didn't like earlier on in

1251
00:59:31,560 --> 00:59:34,200
Speaker 2: this call, but I guess if you're telling if we're

1252
00:59:34,200 --> 00:59:36,919
Speaker 2: talking at the end of this and it's looking it's

1253
00:59:36,920 --> 00:59:40,919
Speaker 2: not looking great for him, you know, it's a whole

1254
00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:45,440
Speaker 2: man's life, and he's a very very powerful man that

1255
00:59:45,640 --> 00:59:50,200
Speaker 2: shifted a culture for a very long period of time.

1256
00:59:50,360 --> 00:59:54,000
Speaker 2: But the collateral damage was so deep that for whatever

1257
00:59:54,080 --> 00:59:56,600
Speaker 2: crimes he committed, he does need to be put away.

1258
00:59:57,560 --> 01:00:02,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I I would feel a sorrow for.

1259
01:00:03,560 --> 01:00:07,520
Speaker 2: What his life will be when he can't be all

1260
01:00:07,520 --> 01:00:11,320
Speaker 2: the things. In all honesty, maybe when you take all

1261
01:00:11,360 --> 01:00:13,440
Speaker 2: of it away, he can just naturally be in a

1262
01:00:13,480 --> 01:00:16,160
Speaker 2: state where he can be who he's maybe always wanted

1263
01:00:16,200 --> 01:00:19,360
Speaker 2: to be. If there is something like that happening deep down,

1264
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:23,000
Speaker 2: I don't know, but either way, like they'll be that

1265
01:00:23,360 --> 01:00:26,200
Speaker 2: and then they'll be you know, you have to remember,

1266
01:00:26,240 --> 01:00:29,320
Speaker 2: after this is eighty civil suits, and I don't fall

1267
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:32,240
Speaker 2: under the statute of limitations on anything anymore. But there

1268
01:00:32,240 --> 01:00:33,880
Speaker 2: are some things that I need to get to the

1269
01:00:33,880 --> 01:00:37,560
Speaker 2: bottom of. And there are some things that happened along

1270
01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:40,200
Speaker 2: the way that were traumatic as fuck for me, and

1271
01:00:40,240 --> 01:00:43,440
Speaker 2: I want to understand them, and I want the world

1272
01:00:43,560 --> 01:00:47,080
Speaker 2: to understand them as well, because if I had to

1273
01:00:47,120 --> 01:00:49,040
Speaker 2: go through it and put on a smile to make

1274
01:00:49,080 --> 01:00:51,680
Speaker 2: all you motherfucking people watching me happy, then you're going

1275
01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:53,360
Speaker 2: to learn exactly what it looked like.

1276
01:00:54,680 --> 01:00:57,840
Speaker 4: Are you thinking that you'll file a civil suit at

1277
01:00:57,840 --> 01:00:58,560
Speaker 4: some point.

1278
01:00:59,080 --> 01:01:00,800
Speaker 2: When you're in a situation where there are a lot

1279
01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:03,960
Speaker 2: of victims and you're speaking to authorities you're not allowed

1280
01:01:03,960 --> 01:01:07,480
Speaker 2: to speak with other victims. Now that there's a trial

1281
01:01:07,520 --> 01:01:10,680
Speaker 2: and I'm not subpoena, I know I can come talk here, obviously,

1282
01:01:11,560 --> 01:01:14,880
Speaker 2: But if somebody were to have seen something or there

1283
01:01:14,960 --> 01:01:18,760
Speaker 2: was something to have occurred, and they're a victim, then

1284
01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:23,560
Speaker 2: I wouldn't be able to understand my situation until their

1285
01:01:23,640 --> 01:01:28,320
Speaker 2: situation was resolved, or until at least this situation was resolved,

1286
01:01:28,600 --> 01:01:31,360
Speaker 2: because then I could actively start to call and ask

1287
01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:32,560
Speaker 2: and investigate.

1288
01:01:33,080 --> 01:01:35,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you're saying, you're just hoping that these civil

1289
01:01:35,520 --> 01:01:38,760
Speaker 3: suits are a way for you to learn more about

1290
01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:39,360
Speaker 3: some of them.

1291
01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:40,560
Speaker 4: Waiting for other people.

1292
01:01:40,920 --> 01:01:43,240
Speaker 2: I'm not waiting for eighty civil suits. I want to

1293
01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:46,600
Speaker 2: get right to it the second that I can. I

1294
01:01:46,880 --> 01:01:52,120
Speaker 2: just want to understand what what what the information that

1295
01:01:52,160 --> 01:01:53,640
Speaker 2: I was given, I want to understand it.

1296
01:01:54,160 --> 01:01:56,360
Speaker 3: So for you, it's more of a personal journey of

1297
01:01:56,480 --> 01:01:58,680
Speaker 3: understanding who he is and why he acts the way

1298
01:01:58,680 --> 01:01:59,160
Speaker 3: he does.

1299
01:01:59,400 --> 01:02:02,560
Speaker 2: Is that I don't I have my I had my

1300
01:02:02,640 --> 01:02:06,240
Speaker 2: personal experience, and I do I have answers to those questions.

1301
01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:13,080
Speaker 2: There's a situation that's still at large, Emily as of today.

1302
01:02:13,800 --> 01:02:19,480
Speaker 2: Let's make a call. Yeah, on possessing people across state lines.

1303
01:02:19,520 --> 01:02:23,080
Speaker 2: Two counts of that is Gesz get guilty on that?

1304
01:02:24,080 --> 01:02:27,640
Speaker 4: I'm going to say. I'm going to go yes, yeah, Okay.

1305
01:02:27,480 --> 01:02:28,560
Speaker 1: I'm a yes on that too.

1306
01:02:28,680 --> 01:02:31,960
Speaker 2: Sex trafficking two counts, two counts of sex trafficking, right

1307
01:02:32,040 --> 01:02:35,360
Speaker 2: or is it rec Yeah, okay, two sex counts of trafficking?

1308
01:02:35,360 --> 01:02:37,360
Speaker 1: Are you guilty as of today?

1309
01:02:37,520 --> 01:02:39,680
Speaker 4: I'm going to say guilty, guilty too?

1310
01:02:39,840 --> 01:02:41,120
Speaker 1: What about on racketeering?

1311
01:02:41,640 --> 01:02:43,760
Speaker 4: I'm going to see guilty on racketeering. I think that

1312
01:02:43,840 --> 01:02:45,040
Speaker 4: they're called these witnesses.

1313
01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:49,200
Speaker 3: They're definitely establishing criminal enterprise, and me is testimony. Like

1314
01:02:49,240 --> 01:02:51,720
Speaker 3: you pointed out, we're not talking about girlfriends anymore, so

1315
01:02:51,720 --> 01:02:54,320
Speaker 3: we can't hone in on the whole. Like you know,

1316
01:02:54,720 --> 01:02:57,400
Speaker 3: she was a girlfriend. She was doing it consensually. You know,

1317
01:02:57,440 --> 01:02:59,880
Speaker 3: that's just the way the relationship was. He's kinky, she

1318
01:03:00,040 --> 01:03:02,280
Speaker 3: went along with it. Now we're talking about the way

1319
01:03:02,280 --> 01:03:06,120
Speaker 3: he treated a personal assistant. So that was really compelling

1320
01:03:06,160 --> 01:03:08,360
Speaker 3: testimony as far as the criminal enterprise, So.

1321
01:03:08,880 --> 01:03:12,960
Speaker 2: Yep, unless there's a bombshelf that comes on Monday, i'd say, right,

1322
01:03:13,200 --> 01:03:15,600
Speaker 2: Mia was the glue that brought it, brought it on home.

1323
01:03:15,720 --> 01:03:17,960
Speaker 1: Right for now, I don't see a lot of lanes

1324
01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:18,280
Speaker 1: out of.

1325
01:03:18,280 --> 01:03:20,439
Speaker 4: This I don't either.

1326
01:03:20,560 --> 01:03:23,280
Speaker 3: The only thing I worried about in the beginning it

1327
01:03:23,320 --> 01:03:24,240
Speaker 3: was jury tampery.

1328
01:03:24,840 --> 01:03:29,440
Speaker 2: Well, we shall see, right see, if anyone from the

1329
01:03:29,520 --> 01:03:31,960
Speaker 2: jury gives a wink before they give the call, we'll

1330
01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:34,280
Speaker 2: find out in a Netflix documentary twenty years later.

1331
01:03:35,080 --> 01:03:35,800
Speaker 4: Exactly.

1332
01:03:37,920 --> 01:03:40,200
Speaker 2: All right, Emily, thank you so much. It's been so

1333
01:03:40,280 --> 01:03:41,280
Speaker 2: great getting to know you.

1334
01:03:41,280 --> 01:03:41,880
Speaker 1: You're awesome.

1335
01:03:41,920 --> 01:03:44,360
Speaker 2: You literally make me want to watch The Housewives of OC.

1336
01:03:44,680 --> 01:03:46,200
Speaker 2: This has been fun for me today.

1337
01:03:46,320 --> 01:03:48,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it was. It was really fun. Thank you

1338
01:03:48,240 --> 01:03:50,320
Speaker 4: for having me on. I appreciate it and I look

1339
01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:55,200
Speaker 4: forward to next time. Yes, okay, thanks all, Thank you. Bye.