Speaker 1: And welcome into another episode of Tiger Territory, part of
Speaker 1: the Foul Territory Network Detroit Tiger's podcast. I'm Karen Steckley
Speaker 1: with me in his old ways as a man who
Speaker 1: would never be pulled for a pinch runner, but if
Speaker 1: he did, he would leave the field gracefully.
Speaker 2: He is Cody Stavenhagen. How we doing.
Speaker 3: I'd be pretty pissed if I got pulled for a
Speaker 3: pinch runner, but.
Speaker 1: But you wouldn't make a stick about it on the
Speaker 1: field in front of cameras.
Speaker 2: And so I might, I might, I don't know, I
Speaker 2: might maybe? Okay?
Speaker 1: Well about Cody every day he closer to Rafael Devers,
Speaker 1: And I initially thought, all right, we are recording this
Speaker 1: a couple of hours after a four or three loss
Speaker 1: by the Tigers to the New York Yankees. That, of
Speaker 1: course is after Monday, a five to three win over
Speaker 1: said New York Yankees. And and you know, like this
Speaker 1: was this was a game tonight, Cody that I you know,
Speaker 1: I couldn't really like prep for much in advance, because
Speaker 1: it's like the mood was gonna be dictated a lot
Speaker 1: by the result. And honestly, that's kind of where the
Speaker 1: Tigers are at in general. Where whereas when May was
Speaker 1: so bad, we say this all the time. May was
Speaker 1: so bad, it's so cool to say, like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, best record in June, you know, and all
Speaker 1: these things and all these things are kind of lining up,
Speaker 1: and then there's a game like today that you feel
Speaker 1: like you should win. You certainly could have won. Had
Speaker 1: a couple of things gone differently, you would have won it.
Speaker 1: But it's still is it still was a game that
Speaker 1: was very much reminiscent of the culture of the Tigers
Speaker 1: that for the most part, has resulted in more success
Speaker 1: than failure over the past couple of years. So again,
Speaker 1: it's kind of hard to dive into, like what the
Speaker 1: first the I guess the A one of this game,
Speaker 1: but maybe the A one of this game, speaking of
Speaker 1: base running, is is Joey Korra Joey Korra sending Riley
Speaker 1: Green in the fourth inning? Uh on a base hit
Speaker 1: by how you lee who by the way, you know,
Speaker 1: springing a couple things together. And if you guys are watching
Speaker 1: on YouTube, we have a great screen grab from Cody
Speaker 1: Uh that kind of illustrates really what's what's what makes
Speaker 1: this a little bit tough to talk about. I think
Speaker 1: tougher than I think people are giving it credit for him.
Speaker 1: We'll get into that. Cody Bellinger fields this ball as
Speaker 1: cleanly as possibly you could possibly field this ball, and
Speaker 1: it's straight at him, no no veering to the left
Speaker 1: or to the right, really and throws Raley Green out comfortably.
Speaker 2: I think is a good way to put it there, Cody.
Speaker 1: And it was a really aggressive send. It was a send,
Speaker 1: I'll be honest with you. It was a send that
Speaker 1: at the time I was like, not gonna work out,
Speaker 1: and then you see the screen grab and you and
Speaker 1: you could really like Monday morning quarterback saying that had
Speaker 1: no chance, no chance at all. By At the same time,
Speaker 1: I try, and I think people who have listened to
Speaker 1: us for the past couple of years to try. I
Speaker 1: try not to be like really prison of the moment
Speaker 1: with the sins. I try to look at from the
Speaker 1: macro perspective, and I think, if this is what you do,
Speaker 1: then you have to keep doing it, and you're gonna
Speaker 1: have to live with leading Major League Baseball and runners
Speaker 1: thrown out at home that started at second base, which
Speaker 1: I believe at according to Tiger's data, is the case
Speaker 1: for the Tigers. So is it as outrageous as it's
Speaker 1: being perceived right now or is there some sort of
Speaker 1: middling ground to be had by this decision?
Speaker 3: Oh, I think we're going to our threading the needle
Speaker 3: segment right off the bat, because you just look at
Speaker 3: the screen grab, Riley Green is like, I'm not sure
Speaker 3: he's even three quarters the way to third base when
Speaker 3: Cody Bellinger fields this ball. Cody Bellinger brings the ninety
Speaker 3: first percent island arm strength, sending Riley Green right there
Speaker 3: seems rather reckless. And again, we've been talking about this
Speaker 3: for years now. The Tigers are aggressive, They're gonna run
Speaker 3: us in some outs. I still like to think there's
Speaker 3: got to be some line between aggressive and just overly aggressive,
Speaker 3: neckless stupid, and I think this one falls on the
Speaker 3: other side of that line. I think it's pretty hard
Speaker 3: to look at this screen grab and say otherwise. But
Speaker 3: some nice perspective from our friend Eddie Badgiic on Twitter.
Speaker 3: He ran some numbers based on win expectancy. I've done
Speaker 3: some stuff like this before based on like run expectancy.
Speaker 3: I don't necessarily expect anyone to understand this. If you're
Speaker 3: if you're not into such analytics. But basically what Eddie
Speaker 3: discovered is that there there was like a minimal difference here.
Speaker 3: There were two outs. Zach McKinstry's coming up against Carlos
Speaker 3: rodon Your your chances of scoring if Riley Green stays
Speaker 3: put at third really aren't great. You're it's great if
Speaker 3: he's safe and you score, that's a pretty good boost
Speaker 3: to your odds of winning. And then basically the way
Speaker 3: Eddie crunches it down is like the break even point
Speaker 3: was eight percent. Is there an eight percent chance that
Speaker 3: Cody Beunger's throw is off line or that really that
Speaker 3: Riley Green is safe? I would argue his throw was
Speaker 3: a little bit offline. It was toward the first baseline.
Speaker 3: Aj Hn jeffter Game said the throw was on the money. I,
Speaker 3: you know, whatever, we can disagree on that it wasn't
Speaker 3: a perfect throw, and Riley Green was still out by
Speaker 3: a good bit. I look at this and it's like, Okay,
Speaker 3: is there any chance Riley Green is safe eight percent
Speaker 3: of the time here? That is a pretty low bar.
Speaker 3: I think if you run this play ten times, he
Speaker 3: might be out on nine of them. But you said
Speaker 3: it earlier here all right, Well, you run it one
Speaker 3: hundred times, you know, is there enough variants? Are there
Speaker 3: enough bad throws? These safe eight times? And does that
Speaker 3: make such a sind worth it? In a two out
Speaker 3: spot where you're at the bottom of your order, you
Speaker 3: don't feel good about that run being driven in. And
Speaker 3: I think that's part of the calculus here, part of
Speaker 3: why the Tigers are so aggressive. They are at least
Speaker 3: putting pressure on the other team to make a play.
Speaker 3: At the same time, I think the overarching point here
Speaker 3: is that, like the odds of scoring one way or
Speaker 3: another just aren't very high here. So people get emotional
Speaker 3: about it because it looks terrible. Rightfully so, because it's
Speaker 3: an out at the plate it ends up being a
Speaker 3: one run game that kind of incites some outrage. And
Speaker 3: if you really want to zoom all the way out
Speaker 3: thirty thousand feet, look at run expects and z and
Speaker 3: one expectancy. There are chances of scoring in that situation
Speaker 3: just weren't good no matter what. So maybe it's not
Speaker 3: the worst thing to make force the opponent to make
Speaker 3: a play. I would argue that if it looks like
Speaker 3: your runner is going to be a dead duck by
Speaker 3: several feet, you should just still hold them at third
Speaker 3: and see what happens. Trust your guy see if he
Speaker 3: can see if he can sneak it somewhere or so
Speaker 3: that's what I got for you.
Speaker 1: Sure, And you know it's again we use this analogy
Speaker 1: all the time. And you know, is it a you
Speaker 1: gotta hit on sixteen type deal? And you know, typically
Speaker 1: those odds on hit on sixteen are better than what
Speaker 1: you just laid out there with the with the Riley
Speaker 1: Green situation, So I understand that. But at the same time, uh, again,
Speaker 1: if you want to go thirty thousand feet like this,
Speaker 1: send is probably not done. If McKinstry is last year's McKinstry,
Speaker 1: you know, especially against lefties, like like like there's there's
Speaker 1: a whole and you know, to his credit, like he
Speaker 1: has put together some better swings and we'll touch on
Speaker 1: that here in a second. But it just I you
Speaker 1: are playing the New York Yankees. You are trying to
Speaker 1: claw every single win that you can, and like sometimes
Speaker 1: recklessness is kind of needed and warranted by situation.
Speaker 2: Now again, if if mcgonagall's.
Speaker 1: On deck, if if you know, I know, it's Ryan
Speaker 1: Green running, But if Riley Green's on deck, you know,
Speaker 1: the guys that you really trust. Hell, even like Kerry Carpenter,
Speaker 1: you know, had there not been a lefty on the mount,
Speaker 1: blah blah blah, like I probably would feel differently. But
Speaker 1: Zach McKinstry has struggled to hit the ball this year overall.
Speaker 1: And Riley Green, while not looking graceful, is at least
Speaker 1: like a smart baseball player and can run it well.
Speaker 2: You see what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: They're not necessarily with the speed, but just like you know,
Speaker 1: can run it well as you know, instinctually, And and
Speaker 1: he had no hesitation there.
Speaker 2: He was aware of the situation as well.
Speaker 1: And so like, if you just want to say it
Speaker 1: was a bad call, I'm not going to disagree with you.
Speaker 1: But if you want to make it this overarching, like
Speaker 1: this is why the Tigers are, you know, not winning
Speaker 1: these like one run games, I would argue that you're
Speaker 1: putting yourself in worse situations to lose the one run games.
Speaker 1: Then necessarily the fact that, like you know, these particular
Speaker 1: plays are costing you, if that makes sense, Like you
Speaker 1: only get to this point if Zach McKinstry is struggling
Speaker 1: at the play, you know, you only get to this point,
Speaker 1: if you're only score, if you're you know, not being
Speaker 1: able to you know, get runs across against you know,
Speaker 1: a good lefty like Rondon and and so you kind
Speaker 1: of have to have this game plan. And if you
Speaker 1: have the game plan, you have to stick with it
Speaker 1: and you know, correct the Bellinger correct wells, you know.
Speaker 1: And also the fact that there are two outs. I
Speaker 1: know Aj was asked about it afterward. I don't think
Speaker 1: he was committal about whether two outs really like played
Speaker 1: a part in that, but uh uh to.
Speaker 2: Me, it does. To me, it does because even if even.
Speaker 3: Think it plays like that in the past, based on
Speaker 3: the two out thing, I think he's just We've asked
Speaker 3: about a million of these plays over the years. I
Speaker 3: think he just kind of is now giving stock answers,
Speaker 3: which is honestly fine. He's never gonna come out and
Speaker 3: throw Joey Kuurr under the bus. That's just not gonna happen. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And you know, even if you like are wanting to
Speaker 1: be a little bit more positive about McKinstry of late,
Speaker 1: one would argue maybe it's better than it for him
Speaker 1: to start out and ending Uh then uh, you know,
Speaker 1: at the bottom of the order, set at the top
Speaker 1: of the order, then then you know have a runner.
Speaker 2: On with with with with two outs there.
Speaker 1: So people are probably gonna say that that was a
Speaker 1: little bit too calm, but for from for from us Cody,
Speaker 1: But that's just kind of how I feel.
Speaker 3: Well, that's that's just the truth. I don't blame fans
Speaker 3: for getting angry or emotional when you watch something like that.
Speaker 3: That's why we do try to point out, like, what
Speaker 3: are you know, what was the actual maths say here,
Speaker 3: And it's probably not equivalent to like the emotional reaction
Speaker 3: that comes, And that's just is what it is. I
Speaker 3: still think it's part of a larger point though, that
Speaker 3: the Tigers aren't as good of a base running team
Speaker 3: as they were a year ago. All the little things,
Speaker 3: the little things they're costing them in one run games.
Speaker 3: We saw it again tonight, like they did have two
Speaker 3: outs on the bases. Ben mal Jerry, who had a
Speaker 3: nice major league debut, still got doubled up on a
Speaker 3: ball that he probably shouldn't have been so far off
Speaker 3: first base. On the Tigers have actually ran the bases
Speaker 3: a little bit better the last week or so, up
Speaker 3: to sixteenth in base running runs above average at zero
Speaker 3: point four, so they were in the negative. They were
Speaker 3: in the red in terms of running the bases for
Speaker 3: the majority of this season. They have been a little
Speaker 3: bit better as of late, but they were the number
Speaker 3: two base running team in all of the league last year.
Speaker 3: Believe it or not. They're not leading the league and
Speaker 3: outs outs on the bases anymore, but they're still pretty
Speaker 3: high up there. They're totally inept when it comes to
Speaker 3: stealing bases. It's actually crazy. They don't steal a lot
Speaker 3: third lease in the league. That's kind of been the
Speaker 3: case for most of the aj Hinch era. But part
Speaker 3: of that right is being smart not wasting outs. Well,
Speaker 3: they still waste outs. They have the third lowest success
Speaker 3: rate when they do try to steal, sixty nine percent,
Speaker 3: so that's costing them. Some of the dumb mistakes are
Speaker 3: costing them. Not scoring when yeah, a guy's coming from second,
Speaker 3: it's dinged kind of their run value. And beyond this
Speaker 3: particular play like that is something this team is still combating.
Speaker 3: As we talked about, are they getting their identity back?
Speaker 3: Are they playing better baseball? They're playing a lot better baseball.
Speaker 3: Like start off on kind of a negative note here,
Speaker 3: but like things have been much improved so far this month,
Speaker 3: and that's great, but some of the little things of
Speaker 3: the margins, like can still be tuned a little bit.
Speaker 3: They take extra bases at the top of the league,
Speaker 3: but overall they're just not as good of a base
Speaker 3: running team as they were one year ago.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and again I would have probably add to like
Speaker 1: I feel like over the past I don't know, three
Speaker 1: or four weeks, there have been less there has been
Speaker 1: less aggressiveness, like, less recklessness, certainly on the bass pass.
Speaker 1: Like there's been a several plays where I'm thinking, oh,
Speaker 1: you know this, this would be a touchy first the
Speaker 1: third and they haven't even tried it.
Speaker 2: So maybe that's one of those.
Speaker 1: Maybe this what makes a play like this stick out
Speaker 1: even a little bit more. All Right, we are going
Speaker 1: to take a quick break and then after we'd we're
Speaker 1: gonna get to get Casey Mice speaking of things and
Speaker 1: how they feel and what the end result is. Casey
Speaker 1: Mice had one of those outings today. But first a
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Speaker 3: O U L.
Speaker 2: All right, coming back here. You know Casey Mize.
Speaker 1: And and I believe it was you askeding the question
Speaker 1: about this in the in the in the clubhouse after
Speaker 1: the game. You know, there was so much to love
Speaker 1: about Casey Mice today. I was like prepared to say
Speaker 1: things that would have been definitely a prisoner of the
Speaker 1: moment about Casey mees. He really three quarters of the
Speaker 1: way through his outing, he ends up five point two.
Speaker 1: He gets tagged with the four runs, six k's, one
Speaker 1: one walk, and I thought, like, you know, credit to
Speaker 1: Dingler two in the in the in the approach and
Speaker 1: the coach of staffanos up.
Speaker 2: The sequencing was amazing.
Speaker 1: I thought the tunnel, the tunneling of the split and
Speaker 1: the slider combined with the fastball that had I would
Speaker 1: say above average below for Casey Mice today was excellent.
Speaker 1: You know, didn't you know, didn't nobody on the Tigers
Speaker 1: today allowed a runner, allowed to hit with a runner
Speaker 1: in scoring position. Yet they still end up losing. And
Speaker 1: again like one of those outings that was way better
Speaker 1: than five point two and four or earned runs. Cody,
Speaker 1: like I thought, I was thoroughly impressed. He misses a
Speaker 1: call third by zero point four inches against Jazz and
Speaker 1: then hangs I don't even say it was hanging slider.
Speaker 1: It was just a little bit too much in the
Speaker 1: in the play and writing kind of in this in
Speaker 1: the sweet spot for a guy like Jazz, and you
Speaker 1: know that, you know, talk about one runs. That's two
Speaker 1: run home run. That makes a difference in a one
Speaker 1: one run game. So what do you what do you
Speaker 1: make of Casey today? Oh?
Speaker 3: I mean, Casey Miyes was was stellar, no doubt. Interesting, Like, yeah,
Speaker 3: a few things go differently, right, There was an infield
Speaker 3: hit against them there that Jazz chishumball had a thirty
Speaker 3: seven degree launch angle in April. I don't think that's
Speaker 3: leaving k America Park on several days, just depending on
Speaker 3: the weather and the temperature and the air pressure, that
Speaker 3: thing might not leave k America Park. But he did
Speaker 3: hit hard, it just kept carrying. It's hard because yeah,
Speaker 3: I had asked Casey. You know, Casey Mice, our favorite
Speaker 3: pessimist here, was not happy after the game, not happy
Speaker 3: with the loss, and he was pleased with his stuff.
Speaker 3: But I kind of asked, like, is it harder to
Speaker 3: feel good a game like that, given the importance of
Speaker 3: every win? And you know, he said, yes, you know,
Speaker 3: that's exactly it. And that's kind of where we're at.
Speaker 3: If you want to shine on the bright side here.
Speaker 3: If the Tigers doing up deadline sellers, it's not just
Speaker 3: Terrek Scuble who's going to be pretty in demand. Casey
Speaker 3: Mii is probably gonna be a top five, if not higher,
Speaker 3: starting pitcher available at the trade deadline based on what
Speaker 3: he has done this year. If he continues to pitch
Speaker 3: like this, I mean, this is a guy everyone should
Speaker 3: want on their team and a guy that, you know,
Speaker 3: even though he doesn't have the track record of Tarek Scuble,
Speaker 3: and even though injuries have been a concern, could certainly
Speaker 3: net you a pretty good prospect. The hope, obviously, is
Speaker 3: to avoid a trade deadline sell off and to keep
Speaker 3: Casey Mice and Terrek Skuble and feel terrific about your
Speaker 3: rotation going into the postseason. We can talk a little
Speaker 3: bit more about that, but I think the big point
Speaker 3: is just man, Casey Mies is stuff. It has not
Speaker 3: been this good, this consistently at any other point in
Speaker 3: his career. He's had two il stints and the stuff
Speaker 3: has stayed terrific. And that's I mean that that's a
Speaker 3: good thing for everyone involved here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like when I was thinking about the the mis,
Speaker 1: you know, trade decision should it come to that or whatever,
Speaker 1: like the I like, my prediction would be again, you know,
Speaker 1: be nice to not have to get to this point,
Speaker 1: but my prediction would be that in all the you know,
Speaker 1: the athletic ESPN, MLB dot com, like all the post
Speaker 1: trade deadline articles and grades and all this stuff, would
Speaker 1: be like, you know, underratedly like the Casey mis wind
Speaker 1: up being like the best addition at this trade deadline,
Speaker 1: or Casey Mys like might be like sneakily like maybe
Speaker 1: someone who's not as locked in, I say, did they
Speaker 1: overpay for Casey My's Like that's like like those are
Speaker 1: the kinds of things because I think it's like he
Speaker 1: was an All Star last year, but after the All
Speaker 1: Star break, you know, obviously he you know, he was
Speaker 1: not nearly as effective. I mean, I think Casey My
Speaker 1: still has like some people who aren't realizing how good
Speaker 1: he really is and what the what he's doing now
Speaker 1: with that new kind of what do we call it,
Speaker 1: the the straight slider, you know, as opposed to the
Speaker 1: looping slider. You know that that he works in there.
Speaker 2: So like, I I think if you're one of.
Speaker 1: Those people that wants Tarrek schooble to pitch well so
Speaker 1: you can get a better return. You must have been
Speaker 1: out of your mind excited tonight that case Mys look
Speaker 1: good so that you can get a better return for
Speaker 1: Casey my should uh you know when the Tigers inevitably
Speaker 1: trade him, right, that's the that's the mentality that you have.
Speaker 2: But but yeah, I thought he was good.
Speaker 1: I thought he like he he was recognizing the moment
Speaker 1: even like during the game, like you gotta pop out
Speaker 1: in the second ending, and he was like mad at himself,
Speaker 1: like he was, you know, almost kind of carrying with
Speaker 1: him a little bit of like a like a tearch
Speaker 1: schoobl as close as Casey Mice can get to a
Speaker 1: tear school intensity. Like I thought we were seeing that
Speaker 1: from Casey myes in this game. And I mean that
Speaker 1: obviously in a in a in a good way, like
Speaker 1: he was mad at himself even when he was great.
Speaker 1: And then, of course, you know, like I said, the
Speaker 1: Jazz play, you know, just kind of didn't.
Speaker 3: Go his way, Casey said. Casey. Someone asked him if
Speaker 3: he thought that jazz chism review was initially a strike,
Speaker 3: and he's said, I just always assume it's going to
Speaker 3: go against me that way, I like, don't get upset,
Speaker 3: and if it does go in my favor, I'm happy.
Speaker 1: I thought watching alive, Watching alive, I did think it
Speaker 1: was gonna be one of those plays that like nick
Speaker 1: the corner like or one of those balls like it.
Speaker 1: They ended up even though it was obviously really close,
Speaker 1: ended up being like farther away from the strike zone
Speaker 1: then I initially thought, because I just thought it would
Speaker 1: you know, the tunnel there would have been there. But
Speaker 1: you know, like I said, credit the jazz and credit
Speaker 1: I thought was a good challenge by Dingler obviously, even
Speaker 1: though it did not succeed real quick Cody, let's let's
Speaker 1: acknowledge Ben Maljerry.
Speaker 2: Major league debut. Two hits, one pitch, one hit, you.
Speaker 1: Know, can't chalk it up any better than that. Obviously
Speaker 1: scored a run there too. Really cool, really cool. We're
Speaker 1: we're gonna got a lot of CBA talks in the offseason, obviously,
Speaker 1: but this Ben Maljerry thing is one of those things
Speaker 1: that could potentially is will already has like gone away,
Speaker 1: someone that just like is just kind of given a
Speaker 1: chance and he rises up the ranks, you know, and
Speaker 1: he's drafted in what the eighteenth round and twenty twenty twenty,
Speaker 1: only twenty six years old. And uh, and he gets
Speaker 1: he gets his moment in a really cool moment with
Speaker 1: his family there as well. And then in relation to
Speaker 1: the actual baseball part of this, the Tigers opting to
Speaker 1: option Trey Cruz after only a couple of games in
Speaker 1: the majors and and bring up Ben there. I get,
Speaker 1: you know, obviously, just a bunch of lefties here coming up.
Speaker 1: But what do you think seeing, you know, seeing the
Speaker 1: moment there from from Ben?
Speaker 3: Yeah, a few things here. Number one, the story of
Speaker 3: how he found out was really cool. They were playing
Speaker 3: the minor league game in Wooster so out in New England.
Speaker 3: That's kind of where his family's from. He has all
Speaker 3: his family at the hotel. Gary Jones just comes down
Speaker 3: for the smile on his face and gives him the news.
Speaker 3: So he finds out, the family finds out all at once.
Speaker 3: There were no phones involved in this call up, so
Speaker 3: that was a cool moment. Obviously, he comes out, gets
Speaker 3: two hits on his first day. I can't ask for
Speaker 3: much more than that, I think. Obviously, there have been
Speaker 3: a lot of people wanting to see Ben Maljerry for
Speaker 3: a while now, and of course when we finally see him,
Speaker 3: it's not to replace Jami Jones, it's to replace Trey
Speaker 3: Cruz after what three four days in the major leagues.
Speaker 3: If you think just because aj Hinch let Col Keith
Speaker 3: it against a lefty, that the Tigers aren't still all
Speaker 3: in on matchups, you are mistaken. They swapped out Cruise
Speaker 3: for mal Jerry basically just just because they're facing left
Speaker 3: handed starters in two consecutive days. They're gonna see the
Speaker 3: Yankees again next week in New York, so we will
Speaker 3: see how along this last. But they wanted another right
Speaker 3: handed bat in there, even though Tray cruis a switch hitter,
Speaker 3: is right handed swing weaker than the left handed swing,
Speaker 3: so they wanted mal Jerry's right handed bat. I think
Speaker 3: it'll be pretty fascinating to see how long they roll
Speaker 3: with this. You could argue they should swap them out
Speaker 3: for the Houston series. Houston, they're gonna face I think
Speaker 3: all right handed starters. There are a couple good lefties
Speaker 3: in that pin. But I think the fact you see
Speaker 3: the Yankees again on the other side might bode well
Speaker 3: for mal Jerry getting a little bit of a longer
Speaker 3: look here and for those still begging for Jami Jones
Speaker 3: to be off the roster, it arguably does set up
Speaker 3: a showdown or get the wheels in motion for the
Speaker 3: end of that because if you do decide to bring
Speaker 3: a Trey Cruz or a left handed hitter up, you
Speaker 3: could have to choose between Jami and Ben mal Jerry.
Speaker 3: Maljerry probably better in the field, or when glabers were
Speaker 3: as is activated, you're gonna have to choose between how
Speaker 3: you lead Jami Jones and Ben mal Jerry. They're suddenly
Speaker 3: kind of more of those right handed bat options. And yes,
Speaker 3: Mile Jerry, eighteenth round pick, guy who has really earned
Speaker 3: his way, hit his way to this spot. I'm not
Speaker 3: sure what to expect of him in the major leagues.
Speaker 3: I think the hit tool is okay. Is it really
Speaker 3: like a carrying tool? Maybe not. But he's solid in
Speaker 3: the field. Can you even play a little center if
Speaker 3: you had to? You know, probably a little bit of
Speaker 3: a fringy guy, but you just you just never know,
Speaker 3: especially look at how he's hit the past two years
Speaker 3: in the minor leagues. Carry Carpenter a great example of
Speaker 3: of sometimes these things that just feel cool but fizzle
Speaker 3: out like sometimes they can be for real.
Speaker 1: Yeah, any and we'll reserve judgment about what's for real
Speaker 1: or whatever. You know, just you know, tonight awesome moment
Speaker 1: for for him and and his family. So yeah, wanted
Speaker 1: to wanted to give him a shout out there and
Speaker 1: you know, forever it's worth, don't know how good he'll be.
Speaker 1: Look pretty comfortable, so you know what, chock chock chalk
Speaker 1: that uh in the positive element there and yeah, maybe
Speaker 1: it's maybe it's a case we're athletically you just kind
Speaker 1: of have to carry them.
Speaker 2: Longer than, you know, than you otherwise would. So we'll
Speaker 2: see about that. All right.
Speaker 1: We are going to take a quick break and then
Speaker 1: afterward we're gonna we're going to decipher are we buying
Speaker 1: with the Tigers?
Speaker 2: Are selling us right now? But first we're from our sponsors.
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Speaker 1: All right, coming back here, you know, Cody, I jotted
Speaker 1: down some things that I've just kind of been occurring
Speaker 1: this month for the Tigers, and it's an incomplete list.
Speaker 1: It was just kind of stuff off the top of
Speaker 1: my head, and I wanted to do it as an
Speaker 1: exercise to just kind of figure out, like is this
Speaker 1: enough to you know, kind of buy into the belief
Speaker 1: we're gonna keep using the puns as long as possible here.
Speaker 1: And so here's just some stuff, you know, we didn't
Speaker 1: talk about Fromber might be the ultimate. I don't know
Speaker 1: if we've had a guy on this podcast before, Cody
Speaker 1: that was the ultimate doesn't feel all right but actually
Speaker 1: is all right. That's kind of the Fromber things. I've
Speaker 1: a little side tangent here. If you want to be entertained,
Speaker 1: don't be on Twitter during a Fromber start and then
Speaker 1: go on Twitter afterward and just kind of see all
Speaker 1: the cycling of the old tweets about people being outraged
Speaker 1: about you know, not holding the runner at first and
Speaker 1: you know, walking the guy with two outs and like
Speaker 1: all these things, and it's like like just like ultimate,
Speaker 1: just like rage, instant rage reactions, and then compare it
Speaker 1: to what the end result was, which was six six innings,
Speaker 1: four hits in one.
Speaker 2: Run, and it's like, well, yeah, it seems all right.
Speaker 2: There are times did really feel all right. But that's that's.
Speaker 1: That's the Fromber experience so far. So I encourage people
Speaker 1: to do that.
Speaker 2: Next time. The school will call out.
Speaker 1: We talked about this last time, school kind of calling
Speaker 1: out the stakes here Torque. I know he was over
Speaker 1: for today, but he had you know, some really big
Speaker 1: hits over the over the over the weekend, a little
Speaker 1: bit of a surge there. Maybe we know that's in there,
Speaker 1: mis you know, kind of pitching like a one to one.
Speaker 1: We just discussed that. Dylan Dingler once again always delivering. Uh,
Speaker 1: why this man does not have some sort of parcel
Speaker 1: service sponsorship in Detroit? Dinger Dingler delivers. That's a free
Speaker 1: that's a free one out there for you guys. McKinstry,
Speaker 1: like I said, kind of getting back to a little
Speaker 1: bit of the line drive outlook for him. The call
Speaker 1: ups Lee included, you know, not kind of being overwhelmed
Speaker 1: by the moment, you know, tech school being tech school,
Speaker 1: not just to call out. And the back end of
Speaker 1: the bullpen quietly well best you know, Finnegan today and
Speaker 1: obviously Janssen over the weekend as well, kind of shaping out,
Speaker 1: Drew Anderson shaping out a little bit more as designed,
Speaker 1: and you know that's obviously missing things like just Riley
Speaker 1: Green being Riley Green, some of the upside of carry
Speaker 1: Carpenter's bat. What Colt Keith can do like all these things? Right,
Speaker 1: is this formula to say, like can the It's like
Speaker 1: two questions, can the Tigers be good? With all these
Speaker 1: things that we're seeing in the month of June like
Speaker 1: good like the rest of the season. I think the
Speaker 1: answer is I'm pretty confident yes, is that good enough?
Speaker 1: And that's what we just don't know yet, But I
Speaker 1: do feel good enough to say that I am still
Speaker 1: butt into the belief that, like it is possible. So
Speaker 1: that's kind of where I stand on all of this.
Speaker 1: Like when I got to list those things off, like
Speaker 1: you know, and you know, and proposition you that way,
Speaker 1: what kind of comes to mind.
Speaker 3: That's a lot. I guess what comes to mind is
Speaker 3: what we've been talking about for a few weeks now,
Speaker 3: Like things are going better, playing a lot better. The
Speaker 3: brand of baseball has started to look better. The pitching
Speaker 3: has been close to dominant, which is what this team
Speaker 3: is kind of always built to thrive on. I think
Speaker 3: of all those things you mentioned, Will vest starting to
Speaker 3: look like Will Vestigan might be the biggest. So I've said,
Speaker 3: like the bullpen is probably still what concerns me the most.
Speaker 3: You need Will vest to be able to be a
Speaker 3: lockdown guy for you, and last few times out he's
Speaker 3: looked a lot more like that. And another guy who
Speaker 3: has that emotion, that edge that's good for the entire team.
Speaker 3: I think despite all that, there's still eleven games under
Speaker 3: five hundred, and they still have a long way to go. Like,
Speaker 3: I think it's just going to be chipping away at
Speaker 3: this thing. And again, there may be no more fascinating
Speaker 3: team than the Tigers right now, because like, they just
Speaker 3: won't quite die. Everyone had assumed they were sellers, of
Speaker 3: breaking my own rule of talking about the trade deadline
Speaker 3: before July first, largely because our boss is here. One
Speaker 3: is talking about the trade deadline. So, like, I don't
Speaker 3: think it's a sure thing that the Tigers are going
Speaker 3: to be sellers. Their playoff odds at the time we're
Speaker 3: recording this twenty four point four percent. Not great, but
Speaker 3: better than you would think given that their record, and
Speaker 3: you know what, yeah, you know what I think has
Speaker 3: become the most interesting development. They're odds of winning the
Speaker 3: Al Central are up to fifteen point five percent. The
Speaker 3: Cleveland Guardians are disintegrating and they're hurt, and they don't
Speaker 3: have Jose Ramirez and they just swept the White Sox.
Speaker 3: I respect what the White Sox are doing this year,
Speaker 3: but one way to think about the Tigers, like, do
Speaker 3: you think they're better than the White Sox? Do you
Speaker 3: think they'll finish with more wins than the White Sox.
Speaker 3: I've kind of been asking myself that this whole year,
Speaker 3: and I almost still want to say yes. I don't
Speaker 3: know what that means in terms of the ultimate playoff picture.
Speaker 3: And again, so much of this is depending on like
Speaker 3: can they do enough to be within convincing striking distance
Speaker 3: before August third? That's like what really alters this whole picture.
Speaker 3: And there's just no way to answer that. You have
Speaker 3: to play the games, you have to play the schedule.
Speaker 3: For all the minutes and hours we've spent on this,
Speaker 3: for all the kind of angry negative podcast we've had,
Speaker 3: I've never said this season is over and this is
Speaker 3: kind of whys are healthy playing a little more like themselves?
Speaker 3: I mean, the American League is just bad. Like how
Speaker 3: many teams that they're what four teams with a winning record?
Speaker 3: Like how many of them are objectively better than the Tigers?
Speaker 3: You can maybe say the Yankees. So I don't know
Speaker 3: if there's another one that really jumps to minds like, oh,
Speaker 3: their way, they'll.
Speaker 2: Feel better than the times themselves.
Speaker 3: Like yeah, that's that's the thing. And it's kind of crazy.
Speaker 3: We're saying about that. That about a team that is
Speaker 3: eleven games over five under five hundred and it has
Speaker 3: had a pretty disastrous season, But that's where we're at.
Speaker 3: They're they're playing better ball. You just have to keep going.
Speaker 3: Anytime you lose a series, it really stings. We know
Speaker 3: that we've already experienced that. I think this conversation like
Speaker 3: it sounds like a broken record. That's it's gonna be
Speaker 3: a broken record for for another month and some change.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it kind of feels like a.
Speaker 1: It feels like a basketball game where you know that,
Speaker 1: like you know, he gets some get some threes to
Speaker 1: fall and you're, you know whatever. Midway through the second
Speaker 1: quarter and you're down whatever. Much like in modern basketball,
Speaker 1: no lead is ever really safe. In this American league,
Speaker 1: no deficit really means all that much. I mean, and
Speaker 1: and unfortunately, obviously I don't mean this in a humorous way. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: Cole Reagan's he's gonna have surgery. So that's a that's
Speaker 1: a that hurts, you know, other competition for for a
Speaker 1: playoff spot obviously, So like, yeah, I mean, there's there's
Speaker 1: The Tigers have every reason to be optimistic based on
Speaker 1: everything around them. Uh again, will they get to that point?
Speaker 1: Will the bad luck continue? There's a lot of metrics
Speaker 1: out there that suggest that, like the Tigers have been
Speaker 1: one of the more unlucky teams this year, and and
Speaker 1: and that's just you know, that's the game so well.
Speaker 1: Actually part of that we should get to is, you know,
Speaker 1: the bad luck is obviously part of the injuries. And
Speaker 1: you know, we were you know, talking about Ben and
Speaker 1: how much of the state you know, staying power will
Speaker 1: he have and and then Hayu Lee, who you know,
Speaker 1: want to give him credit as you know, strung together. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know some hits here recently, it kind of feels
Speaker 1: like Cody like the they're if you're holding on to
Speaker 1: hope for the Tigers, it's not going to be revolving
Speaker 1: around Parker Metals coming back and giving you a spark,
Speaker 1: or like Labor Torres being.
Speaker 2: Just around the corner.
Speaker 1: Or again, I know he hadn't been having a great year,
Speaker 1: but Wentzel Perez and what he could offer you kind
Speaker 1: of being right there even I don't know we have
Speaker 1: a real Jackson job update, but you know, like those
Speaker 1: kind of things like it almost kind of feels like
Speaker 1: this core that we've experienced might be mostly the.
Speaker 2: Core here, give or take.
Speaker 1: Obviously some some roster variance we have, you know, Hobby
Speaker 1: still dealing with the ankle injury, so like you know,
Speaker 1: some of those things.
Speaker 2: It just kind of feels like this might be.
Speaker 1: The this might be the group, This might be the
Speaker 1: foxhol guys here for the most part.
Speaker 2: And how are you feel that way? Is? How are
Speaker 2: you feel that way?
Speaker 1: But not a lot of great injury updates other than
Speaker 1: I guess Jack Flaherty today, you know, pitching in a
Speaker 1: rehab stout, and not a lot of great injury updates
Speaker 1: right now for the Tigers.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Jack Flaherty did have a nice rehab start. I
Speaker 3: wouldn't be surprised if that's a one and done and
Speaker 3: he is back in the big leagues. We'll see. And
Speaker 3: then that creates a familiar conversation. Are the Tigers going
Speaker 3: to go to a six man rotation? Where's cater Montero
Speaker 3: again going to get bumped to the bullpen? I think
Speaker 3: maybe at least this next time through, given you're playing
Speaker 3: what fourteen games in fourteen days, there's a chance we
Speaker 3: could see a six man and then a regroup. But
Speaker 3: every time we've had this conversation before someone else gets hurt.
Speaker 3: So let's hope for the Tiger's sake that does not happen.
Speaker 3: I think the Parker Meadows one was interesting. He had
Speaker 3: been kind of a forgotten man, broke his arm. No
Speaker 3: one was expecting him back, you know, anytime before. Certainly
Speaker 3: the All Star break probably the t a deadline. But
Speaker 3: it seems like the Tigers have left the door open
Speaker 3: that he could return this year, which, given they haven't
Speaker 3: really found a good alternative in center field, his defense alone,
Speaker 3: you know, you start thinking, okay, what if they can
Speaker 3: hang on, what if they don't have to sell? Then
Speaker 3: you get Parker Meadow's back roman center field. I don't know,
Speaker 3: aj Hinch said, the bone shattered. It's not healing like
Speaker 3: a simple break. I say shattered as a non doctor,
Speaker 3: I don't know if that's the actual term. But he
Speaker 3: went on to say it's been slow and there there's
Speaker 3: not much we can do until he gets through all
Speaker 3: his rehabs. So still nothing conclusive. Well, if he could
Speaker 3: be back this season, but the update didn't sound optimistic
Speaker 3: about about the prognosis Glabor will be back in you know,
Speaker 3: I would assume not too far from now, but aj
Speaker 3: did say it's going to be a slow ramp. He's
Speaker 3: still not doing baseball activity, so clearly they're trying to
Speaker 3: be careful with this one. And then Winsle. Yeah, I
Speaker 3: mean we talked about that injury. Scary injury. He fractured
Speaker 3: his orbital bone. He's not even coming to the field
Speaker 3: right now. Seems like he's still dealing with a ton
Speaker 3: of swelling, like I don't know if he's can be
Speaker 3: exposed like sunlight right now. Very scary injury. I don't
Speaker 3: know how long that's going to keep him out, But
Speaker 3: fractured orbital the bone, that that will keep you out
Speaker 3: a while. So you're right, some of those some of
Speaker 3: those faces like probably aren't coming as reinforcements, you know,
Speaker 3: anytime soon.
Speaker 1: Yeah, which you know creates Unfortunately, injuries create opportunities for others.
Speaker 1: So like you know, Hayli, if you want to kind
Speaker 1: of establish yourself as someone who has to be taken
Speaker 1: seriously as a big leaguer, like this is you know
Speaker 1: a little bit of opportunity for you, you know, mil Jerry, Like,
Speaker 1: if there's going to be opportunities either this year or
Speaker 1: in the future for some right handed bat in this
Speaker 1: outfield to be present, I guess, and so like this
Speaker 1: is for real, Maybe this is for real. These are
Speaker 1: the opportunities there created, and so yeah, I mean, it's
Speaker 1: there are a lot of things that we talked about
Speaker 1: tonight that can be considered comforting thoughts.
Speaker 2: Some of that stuff that we just went into not
Speaker 2: the most comforting. So maybe we did. Did we thread
Speaker 2: the needle tonight, Cody, did we thread the needle?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean I think so. It's it's kind of
Speaker 3: crazy in that night tonight. I'm still not sure that
Speaker 3: Tigers are a super interesting team to watch, But in
Speaker 3: terms of like the big picture, I don't know if
Speaker 3: there's a more interesting team in baseball in the lead
Speaker 3: up to the trade deadline, given they have schoobl given
Speaker 3: they played terrible, and now they've been one of the
Speaker 3: best teams in baseball in June, Like this is this
Speaker 3: is just a fascinating circumstance. It's been kind of a
Speaker 3: soap opera all season long and a variety of ways,
Speaker 3: and we may just be getting started.
Speaker 1: I can't remember a season where the hype on social
Speaker 1: media before July was hey, only six and a half back,
Speaker 1: and it was like serious you know, like yeah, like
Speaker 1: it was like serious, like, hey, only six and a
Speaker 1: half back of the wildcard, you know, or you know,
Speaker 1: only this many games back of the division.
Speaker 3: You think about six and a half is still a lot,
Speaker 3: but six and a half is not that far from
Speaker 3: being like four and a half, which suddenly just feels a.
Speaker 2: Lot more manageable.
Speaker 3: But then if you lose a series, you're just back
Speaker 3: where you started. And that's I guess that's part of
Speaker 3: why this is so interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean again, just the it's the ultimate
Speaker 1: thrill of victory and agony of the feet that might
Speaker 1: be the twenty twenty six Tigers and will be here
Speaker 1: the entire way. I want to thank everybody for following
Speaker 1: us on x FO, Twitter, Ech, hoy stave in Haagen,
Speaker 1: I'm at Kieran on to score, Steckley pot page at
Speaker 1: Tiger Territory, Underscore, YouTube apples, Spotify, subscribe, rate, review, you
Speaker 1: guys know what to do. We appreciate all of you.
Speaker 1: So for coy stave in Haagen, I'm Kieran Steckley.
Speaker 2: Everybody have
Speaker 5: Ye