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Speaker 1: Hi, listeners. We wanted to provide a content warning for

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Speaker 1: this episode because the movie, as well as our discussion

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Speaker 1: involves things like stalking, spousal abuse, physical assault, and violence

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Speaker 1: toward women. Just so everyone is aware. Enjoy the episode.

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Speaker 1: On the beck Doll Cast, the questions asked if movies

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Speaker 1: have women in um, are all their discussions just boyfriends

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Speaker 1: and husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy zef

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Speaker 1: invest start changing it with the bec Del Cast, Jamie Caitlin,

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Speaker 1: take a look into my telescope and observe from a

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Speaker 1: distance the movie Body Double and how it asks us

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Speaker 1: to be empathetic toward a protagonist who is Okay, we're

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Speaker 1: starting negative, reeling negative for coming in freezing. I'm sorry,

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Speaker 1: I can't stop looking at so my my dog is

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Speaker 1: here right now. I want to just say at the top.

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Speaker 1: First of all, welcome to the Bexelcast. Second of all,

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Speaker 1: you know this this movie is gonna be an interesting chat.

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Speaker 1: Third of all, Sonny's here and I got him a

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Speaker 1: couple of tennis balls because I'm a you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: you're a good mommy. I just like to give him things,

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Speaker 1: but they're squeaky. I didn't realize they were squeaky, and

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Speaker 1: he wouldn't stop barking at me until I gave him

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Speaker 1: all four. So there might be some squeaks. He has

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Speaker 1: them all, he's arranged them into a little diamond and

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Speaker 1: he just keeps looking at them lustfully, and then occasionally

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Speaker 1: he'll pick one up in his mouth and squeak it

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Speaker 1: and then put it back and then rearrange the diamond formation.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of sick and sick and perverted. It's because

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Speaker 1: I showed him body double. Well, I was gonna say,

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Speaker 1: I mean, speaking of looking at things lustfully. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: know he learned it, he said, I learned it from

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Speaker 1: my boy to Palma horrifying. Okay, welcome to the Actel Cast.

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Speaker 1: My name is Jamie Loftus, my name is Caitlin Darante,

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Speaker 1: and this is our show where we examine movies through

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Speaker 1: an intersectional feminist lens, and we use the Bechtel test

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Speaker 1: simply as a jumping off point to inspire a larger

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Speaker 1: conversation about film. Flim flims. If you will, what is

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Speaker 1: the Bechtel test? Though, Jamie, I forget, well, the Betel

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Speaker 1: test is a movie or no, it's a It's an

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Speaker 1: Oh my God. It's a media metric created by Quirk

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Speaker 1: cartoonist Alison Bechdel, sometimes called the Bechdel Wallace Test, lots

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Speaker 1: of versions of it. Ours requires that two people of

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Speaker 1: a marginalized gender speak to each other about something other

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Speaker 1: than a man for more than two lines of dialogue

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Speaker 1: at very least, and they must have names in the

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Speaker 1: and and it should means that should be a meaningful interaction.

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Speaker 1: Can I give a quick anecdote example, please? There is

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Speaker 1: a really annoying Twitter joke that is recycled every time

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Speaker 1: a new movie comes out, where they're like, I'm sorry

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Speaker 1: to report like Hopgun Maverick does not pass the Bechtel test,

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Speaker 1: and it gets five trillion likes every time, and it's

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Speaker 1: never funny, and it annoys me. And it particularly annoyed

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Speaker 1: me yesterday when someone recycled that joke yet again to

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Speaker 1: say Minions Rise of Grew does not pass the Bechtel test. Now, listen,

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Speaker 1: I went to see Minions Rise of Grew last night

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Speaker 1: opening night, and it does pass the Bechdel test. So

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Speaker 1: not only have we been saying for years it's a

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Speaker 1: flawed metric to begin with, and plenty of incredible movies

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Speaker 1: do not pass the Bechdel test, but it is a

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Speaker 1: good jumping off point for discussion. Perhaps Minions did pass

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Speaker 1: the Beckdel test between Julie Andrews and Taraji p Henson.

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Speaker 1: And if that's not a super pass, I don't know

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Speaker 1: what sucking is. Tell me about it. Oh my god.

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Speaker 1: So that's the show, um, And today we are talking

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Speaker 1: about a pretty popular request, UM that we've gotten over

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Speaker 1: the years many times. It's a Brian to Palmer movie

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Speaker 1: called Body Double. It came out in four It's a

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Speaker 1: neo noir, erotic thriller, and people have been saying it's

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Speaker 1: sexist since it came out. So and if something is sexist,

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Speaker 1: I'm very excited to talk about it now. And we

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Speaker 1: have an incredible returning guest. Is this is this a three? Thin?

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Speaker 1: Your third time? Aladdin? Speed? Was there something something in between?

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Speaker 1: There was something in between? I think I think that

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Speaker 1: this might be four. I just can't remember the other one.

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Speaker 1: Maybe three, I don't know. I don't know. Time, Aladdin, Speed,

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Speaker 1: and Body Double is a is a pretty solid genre

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Speaker 1: spread too. Yeah, Well, let's introduce you properly. They are

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Speaker 1: a filmmaker. Half of the podcast ethnically ambiguous. It's Sharine

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Speaker 1: Lannie Unite, welcome back. Thanks for having me. I having

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Speaker 1: curious about this movie for so long, so I was

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Speaker 1: glad to have a reason to watch it. Um. I

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Speaker 1: don't know what I was expecting, because I don't like

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Speaker 1: knowing anything about a movie before I jump in, Like,

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Speaker 1: I know I want to see it, but I just

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Speaker 1: will not look any up about it. So it was

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Speaker 1: a ride. I did not know what I was getting into.

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Speaker 1: It was that so you had never seen this before? No, no, okay.

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Speaker 1: I was fascinated about, Like what if you had a

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Speaker 1: history with it? Are you like a Di Palma fan?

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Speaker 1: I mean not necessarily. I think he's like he's all untalented.

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Speaker 1: I think he's he makes it clear, especially in this movie,

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Speaker 1: that he's just horny all the time. But but I

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Speaker 1: just like that the poster is also really like erotic,

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Speaker 1: and like, I've just heard so much about this movie

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Speaker 1: for some reason, like maybe on letterbox and stuff. I

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Speaker 1: always saw it pop up and I was like, what

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Speaker 1: is this and that someone described it as aum the

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Speaker 1: hottest thriller of the eighties or the sexiest thriller of

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Speaker 1: the eighties, So I was like that piqued my interest.

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Speaker 1: But but yeah, I don't have any history with it

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Speaker 1: other than being just like very curious about it. And

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Speaker 1: now I know me either. I had never seen this

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Speaker 1: movie either. It was like vaguely on my radar. But

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Speaker 1: I will say that erotic thrillers are one of my

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Speaker 1: least favorite genres, so I never seek them out. And

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Speaker 1: Brian de Palma, I'm not a fan. There, I said it.

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Speaker 1: I don't like really any of his movies we've covered. Weirdly,

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Speaker 1: we've covered two diploma movies on this show before. We've

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Speaker 1: cavered Mission Impossible one, and we've covered Carrie. But he

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Speaker 1: also did Scarface, which Untouchables. Oh, I do like Blowout

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Speaker 1: with neither John Travolta. It's maybe my favorite John Travolta performance. Um,

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Speaker 1: I would recommend blow Out out of all of the

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Speaker 1: Apollo movies, I would recommend even over Face Off, which

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Speaker 1: I think is no no, no no, But that's John Travolta. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: oh yes, yes, Face Off is closest I've ever come

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Speaker 1: to converting to scientology easily. You're just like, um, maybe

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Speaker 1: he's got a point, because I love that movie. It's

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Speaker 1: one of my top five movies of all time. I

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Speaker 1: love that movie, Oh my gosh. But I would recommend

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Speaker 1: maybe second, and then I would recommend it for his

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Speaker 1: second best performance, Blowout. It's like it's like a in

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Speaker 1: that movie. I'm like, Oh, he's a good actor, you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean. But anyway, so Caitlin, you had

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Speaker 1: not seen it before, I had not, had you, I

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Speaker 1: had not. No. I think we all kind of had

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Speaker 1: a similar experience where I've been hearing about this movie

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Speaker 1: for years and I just sort of wasn't in a

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Speaker 1: rush to see it. Honestly, the main selling point for

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Speaker 1: me on this movie was I really like Melanie Griffith,

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Speaker 1: and I am always down to see Melanie Griffith in

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Speaker 1: a movie, and I thought she did a great job.

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Speaker 1: And I'm always just like sometimes seeing Melanie Griffith in

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Speaker 1: like movies in the eighties, who are just like, we're

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Speaker 1: not giving her the material that she needs. And you know,

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Speaker 1: it took a generation and now her daughter Dakota Johnson

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Speaker 1: is doing a lot of incredible work that Melanie Griffith

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Speaker 1: should have had access to as well. Anyways, some of

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Speaker 1: the only good nepotism in the world, as far as

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Speaker 1: I'm concerned, like that legacy. Agree amazing. But I knew

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Speaker 1: that this movie had been and controversial for really long time,

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Speaker 1: and I sunny that is really enough. But but I

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Speaker 1: didn't I don't know. I didn't know any of the

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Speaker 1: shrine like similar deal. I didn't know plot. I didn't

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Speaker 1: know anything. I didn't know that it started a Bill

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Speaker 1: Maher doppelganger that was really distracted, distracted, especially with his

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Speaker 1: hair slicked back when he was like playing the producer

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Speaker 1: person with his hair slick back. That's that's Bill Mark,

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Speaker 1: it is. I mean, I don't know anything about this guy.

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Speaker 1: He's been he's been nominated for a Golden Globe, like god,

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Speaker 1: bless good for Craig Wasson. Who's that. I mean, look,

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Speaker 1: we don't know. He could be a terrific guy. We

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Speaker 1: don't know. The point is he is he looks exactly

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Speaker 1: like someone despicable and it's like really despicable me. Shout

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Speaker 1: out to our Despicable Me episode on the Matreon. You guys,

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Speaker 1: I loved Rise. It grew so much. It was so funny.

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Speaker 1: There they made a joke about look Already Airport. That

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Speaker 1: was the minions essentially, Look, they fly a plane in

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Speaker 1: this one and it's so funny. Okay, we have to

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Speaker 1: we cannot get into the minions, so I hadn't. I'm

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Speaker 1: like kind of ambivalent towards the Palma. I think that

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Speaker 1: like his place in like movie history is kind of

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Speaker 1: interesting because he's like grouped in with all those famous

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Speaker 1: seventies directors and he's kind of one of the less

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Speaker 1: discussed of them, like that whatever, we're crazy. He's still

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Speaker 1: very discussed, but I feel like it's not well. But

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Speaker 1: I don't want to dump it into fun but like

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Speaker 1: I feel like it's like it's not discussed because his

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Speaker 1: movies are like so fucking awesome. Sure, he's just discussed.

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Speaker 1: I liked Carrie. Like I know, I haven't revisited in

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Speaker 1: our episode or the movie in a while, but I mean,

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Speaker 1: Carrie really stuck with me when I was younger. I

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Speaker 1: remember enjoying Phantom of the Paradise, but I like watched

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Speaker 1: it when I was sick a couple of years ago.

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Speaker 1: And other than that, I kind of don't have And

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Speaker 1: then you know, mission impossible. Sure why not Scarface? Scarf? Yes,

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Speaker 1: I have not seen Scarface. That's one of my like

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Speaker 1: right up there with I've not seen a single Godfather

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Speaker 1: and like Scarface is something that we will have to

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Speaker 1: cover eventually, and I dread the day he made Scarface

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Speaker 1: right before Body Devil, which is really interesting to me

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Speaker 1: because they feel completely different. But well, so he didn't

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Speaker 1: write Scarface. No, he didn't know. I just realized, like

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Speaker 1: as I was talking, like for Bobby Devil is said

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Speaker 1: story by to Palma that he wrote it with someone else.

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Speaker 1: But this movie is I mean the music, first of all,

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Speaker 1: very dramatic, like peeping music, like every time you see

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Speaker 1: that you saw the telescope, it was like this ethereal

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Speaker 1: weird music. And then like they were just it was

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Speaker 1: the music kind of scared me at times. I was

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Speaker 1: not expecting so much, like it was manipulative. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: didn't like this movie and I like it, that's okay.

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Speaker 1: I didn't like it, and it was like it's weird too,

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Speaker 1: because it was like one of those movies that it

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Speaker 1: has been so like people didn't like when they came

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Speaker 1: out and they're like, this is weird Hitchcock rip off

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Speaker 1: that is like even worse to women somehow and people.

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Speaker 1: And then that was it for a while, and then

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Speaker 1: people were trying to reclaim it. They're like, no, it's commentary.

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Speaker 1: And then I'm like, uh, I couldn't get there. I

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Speaker 1: couldn't get like it's like horny Hitchcock, right, and it's

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Speaker 1: like Hitchcock also famously not a good person. Right. I've

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Speaker 1: got some quotes for for after we do the recap.

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Speaker 1: But like, I just was sort of because this movie

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Speaker 1: has undergone so many like rounds of analysis and like

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Speaker 1: some people have I think, like whatever, like think whatever

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Speaker 1: you want, but like try to reclaim it as like

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Speaker 1: this movie is commentary on voyeurism, it's not just voyeurism.

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Speaker 1: And I looked to see if di Palma had ever

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Speaker 1: given an interview to try to make that same case,

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Speaker 1: and he sort of like did not at all. He's like,

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Speaker 1: that's this is what happens in movies like by you know,

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Speaker 1: and so we'll we'll get to like the exact particulars

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Speaker 1: of what he has said about the movie. But I just, yeah,

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Speaker 1: looking for his thoughts on this movie didn't really change

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Speaker 1: my opinion of it in any way. I just I

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Speaker 1: thought it would be Honestly, because it's been talked about

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Speaker 1: so much, I thought it would be better. Like I

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Speaker 1: thought it would be paler than it was and that's

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Speaker 1: why I asked to watch Chicks. I was like, Oh,

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Speaker 1: finally this reason to watch this longest movie that I've

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Speaker 1: heard so much about. It's probably decent. Let's go, and

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Speaker 1: I will say I think it was. I'm glad we

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Speaker 1: watched it because there are a few lines that might

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Speaker 1: be like my favorite lines in cinema of all times,

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Speaker 1: that I just can't stop thinking about. There's which one

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Speaker 1: when he's in the acting class and the guys like

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Speaker 1: you are a baby and you're afraid and you must act,

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Speaker 1: and then he goes, I can't. I'm a sardine. Like

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Speaker 1: I just lost it, Like it was the stupidest line

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Speaker 1: I've ever heard in my entire life. I can't. I'm

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Speaker 1: a sardine. Uh. And then she's like you are a baby,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, I hear that. I feel that

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Speaker 1: in my bones. I mean. But other than that, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I also love Melanie Griffith. I really I think she

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Speaker 1: also deserved more just to be not as sexualized and

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Speaker 1: not as just like pigeonholed as she was. But also

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Speaker 1: she's like top build, but she doesn't come into the

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Speaker 1: movie until like an hour or more. But it's just

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Speaker 1: like who are you going to top Bill Craig Wesson?

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Speaker 1: Who then is that? Who? So? Okay, should I Well,

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Speaker 1: let's take a quick break first and then we'll get

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Speaker 1: into the recap and we are back, and should we

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Speaker 1: get into the recap and go from there? Yeah, let's

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Speaker 1: do it. Okay, So body double. We meet Jake Scully

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Speaker 1: played by Craig Watson, which, okay, first of all, Avatar

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Speaker 1: Jake Sully, Jake Scully, Yeah, distracting. I was like, for

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Speaker 1: a moment, I was like, is that Sully's name in Monsters, Inc?

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Speaker 1: And then it's not. Sully had a different first name,

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Speaker 1: James Sullivan. Yeah. And then I was like, but who's

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Speaker 1: Jake Sully? And then I didn't investigate further. But yes, Jamie,

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Speaker 1: you're right, Like, we don't have time to get into

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Speaker 1: Avatar right now, and we will be covering it later

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Speaker 1: in the year. It's a complicated film with a bizarro

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Speaker 1: fucking history. But Jake Sully, like, and they say his

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Speaker 1: name five trillion times, that's like, arguably the only thing

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Speaker 1: I remember is the tail scene and the fact that

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Speaker 1: there's a character named Jake Sully. Jake Sully. So Jake Scully,

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Speaker 1: Jake Scully that's on James Cameron. Yeah, he should have

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Speaker 1: not named his character basically the same thing. But we

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Speaker 1: meet Jake Scully. He is an actor in Hollywood. Ever

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Speaker 1: heard of it. He goes to an iconic hot dog

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Speaker 1: stand that no longer exists at the beginning of the

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Speaker 1: movie called Taylor the Pup, whose history I cover in

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Speaker 1: my hot Dog book. Oh, it's like that hot dog

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Speaker 1: shape building at the beginning of the movie, and it's

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Speaker 1: been moved to like, yeah, it still exists, but they

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Speaker 1: just like moved the building to like a storage unit.

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Speaker 1: But it's still around, there's just not hot dogs in

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Speaker 1: it anymore. Anyways, l A History. We were talking about

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Speaker 1: l A History a lot in Speed too. That's true. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I they're a little bit cringe sometimes, but

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Speaker 1: I do appreciate, like a very appreciate. I think those

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Speaker 1: meta movies like You're You're suddenly on a movie set,

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Speaker 1: I think those are kind of funny, you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean, where they're likely higher to be filmed by

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Speaker 1: the crew. I just think it's like very funny to

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Speaker 1: me for some reason. Yeah, So this was the opening

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Speaker 1: to this was entertaining. I was like, oh, yeah, I've

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Speaker 1: never seen that before Bartie's Beanery Hello, because what happens is,

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Speaker 1: so we meet Jake Scully when he is in the

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Speaker 1: middle of filming a take for a vampire movie where

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Speaker 1: he is the vampire and he's in a coffin, but

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Speaker 1: he freezes and can't act because we'll learn that he

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Speaker 1: has claustrophobia, so he's struggling with that. We then see

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Speaker 1: Jake out of his vampire makeup and it is now

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Speaker 1: clear that he is a dead ringer for Bill Maher

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Speaker 1: and again it's very distracting, which I don't even know

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Speaker 1: if that was a person at the time, Like, I

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Speaker 1: know he's a lot, but I'm like, I don't even

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Speaker 1: think he was famous when this movie came out, So

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Speaker 1: that just sucks for Craig. Sorry Craig. So Jake goes

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Speaker 1: home and walks in on his girlfriend having sex with

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Speaker 1: another man, and he is devastated and he now needs

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Speaker 1: somewhere else to stay. He tries to carry on with

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Speaker 1: his life. We see him at interviews, auditions, we see

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Speaker 1: him at acting class, and then he meets and befriends

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Speaker 1: this guy named Sam who has a place for him

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Speaker 1: to stay because Sam has been house sitting for a friend.

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Speaker 1: This rich guys, I think also in the movie business.

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Speaker 1: In the picture business. He's got one of my favorite

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Speaker 1: movie props ever, the like bed that spins around. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's good. Yea. So also I looked it up. The

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Speaker 1: elevated circular house. It's just it's a house called what

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Speaker 1: was it called the Chemisphere, and it's in l A.

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Speaker 1: Was designed by John Lawtner in nineteen sixty and it's

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Speaker 1: like this like private historic thing. I thought that was

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Speaker 1: so interesting, just like the spaceship in the in the Hills.

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Speaker 1: Does it still exist? Yeah, it's still there. It's a

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Speaker 1: one story octagon on the San Fernando Valley side of

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Speaker 1: the Hollywood Hills off of Mulholland. It's just sitting there.

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Speaker 1: Let's go field trip. That's why I sort of assumed

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Speaker 1: it was like a model. I don't know. I just

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Speaker 1: was like, that doesn't exist, and I didn't ask any

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Speaker 1: more questions. That's wild. It was declared in l a

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Speaker 1: historical Cultural Monument in two thousand four. That's cool. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's the vibe. But I thought it was interested. There's

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Speaker 1: like a what's it called, like a little trolley that

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Speaker 1: even brings you up to the house. I've never seen

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Speaker 1: that in my life. Yeah, I know. I'm like, does

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Speaker 1: that Whoever lives there has to go on a little

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Speaker 1: roller coaster trolley ride every time they want to go home.

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Speaker 1: It was wild. That is terrifying. You're like, oh, that's like,

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Speaker 1: that's very exciting. But then also when you're going up

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Speaker 1: to a place like that, you're like, oh, this is

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Speaker 1: where I die. Like this is you know, there's no

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Speaker 1: coming down. But no one dies in that house. They

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Speaker 1: die in other houses, and they die in other houses.

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Speaker 1: So Sam has been house sitting for a friend who

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Speaker 1: lives in this house. But Sam is about to go

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Speaker 1: out of town for this five week gig he has,

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Speaker 1: so he arranges for Jake to stay at this place

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Speaker 1: while Sam is gone. So Sam shows Jake around the

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Speaker 1: house and he points out this telescope in the house

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Speaker 1: with a view of a neighbor woman who dances all

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Speaker 1: naked and sexy every night at the same time. And

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Speaker 1: Jake is like, oh whooa and he spies on her

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Speaker 1: for a really long time. It's all foamy And the

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Speaker 1: music is the music woud the peeping music is so

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Speaker 1: disturbing because it's so happy, right, because it's like, oh, la, la,

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Speaker 1: isn't this so awesome that he's spying on her? Exactly.

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Speaker 1: I've like seen arguments that like they're like, oh, I

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Speaker 1: guess that, like the Pomo was accused of ripping off

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Speaker 1: Hitchcock quite a bit because he did do that, Like

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Speaker 1: it was because he didn't. I mean, this movie is

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Speaker 1: literally Rear Window plus and Vertigo Vertigo, Yeah, exactly the hornier.

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Speaker 1: But like some people have made the argument that they're like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: he had been he had been received this criticism for

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Speaker 1: so long that he's like I'm going to triple down

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Speaker 1: and make it like I'm gonna make the worst movie ever. Um.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I like read a whole piece on The

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Speaker 1: Independent that was like Body Double is De Palma's ultimate troll,

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Speaker 1: which to me, I like saw what he was saying.

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Speaker 1: But I was also like, um, but sometimes you just

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Speaker 1: make a movie that sucks and it's not like a

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Speaker 1: four a game of forty chess. I mean, yeah, in retrospect,

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Speaker 1: it's probably like you can say anything you're being a troll,

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Speaker 1: you know, if something sucks, you can be like I

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Speaker 1: was trolling, Like that's a good cop out. Yeah, if

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Speaker 1: you're called out on something that's my plan. I'm just like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: when I when I make something that fucking flops, Like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was that was supposed to Did I make you

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Speaker 1: think I did that on purpose? Yeah? Exactly, exactly right. Okay.

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Speaker 1: So he spies on this neighbor woman for a really

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Speaker 1: long time, and then later that night he watches her again,

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Speaker 1: but this time he sees a man in the room

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Speaker 1: with her. It seems to be her boyfriend or husband,

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Speaker 1: and Jake watches this guy hit the woman and then leave.

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Speaker 1: The next day, Jake gets word that he's been fired

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Speaker 1: from the vampire movie because the director doesn't want to

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Speaker 1: deal with his claustrophobia. So he's even more down on

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Speaker 1: his luck. And then that night he spies on the

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Speaker 1: neighbor woman again doing her sexy naked dance. And it's

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Speaker 1: the same naked dance every night, every night, always at midnight.

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Speaker 1: He did get context for it later, but it is

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Speaker 1: just so confusing to me that the character of like

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Speaker 1: he's just like so he is a sardine essentially, because

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Speaker 1: he just isn't asking questions that you need to be

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Speaker 1: even as like a perverted sex criminal. He's not asking

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Speaker 1: very obvious questions such as, why is it the same

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Speaker 1: routine every day? Like yeah, yeah, I mean I won't

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Speaker 1: get into like the actual plot, but I do think

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Speaker 1: it's very funny that the plot rides on him being

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Speaker 1: a creep, Like you know what I mean, Like he

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Speaker 1: had to have started this all because he the person,

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Speaker 1: knew he would look at her, Like that's that's the

385
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Speaker 1: whole play rides on this guy, like proving that he's

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Speaker 1: a creep. I just think that's and it goes off

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Speaker 1: like nobody's business. And also I feel like it also

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Speaker 1: rides on and it's like this, I don't disagree with

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Speaker 1: this necessary like but like also him being very certain

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Speaker 1: that he's not a creep, which is true of many creeps.

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Speaker 1: But I'm not a creep. I'm a political activist, right

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Speaker 1: There's like I'm a good guy. I was protecting her

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Speaker 1: and then the detective, who I'm like, are we supposed

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Speaker 1: to agree with the detective because I have a whole

395
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Speaker 1: thing about that. Yeah, yeah, I thought the same thing.

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Speaker 1: I was like for the first time or cop speaking

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00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:38,359
Speaker 1: a good point and then but I think the movie

398
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Speaker 1: thinks no. But yeah, well we'll get into that a

399
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Speaker 1: little ambiguous. Yeah, So he's watching Jake Sully's slash. Scully

400
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Speaker 1: is watching the woman do her naked dance the same

401
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Speaker 1: exact routine is before, and this time he notices another

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Speaker 1: creepy guy watching her from a distance as well. The

403
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Speaker 1: next day, Jake runs into the neighbor woman on the street.

404
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Speaker 1: They're like both an intersection or there in their cars,

405
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Speaker 1: and he sees the creepy guy from the night before

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Speaker 1: also stalking this woman. So Jake follows the woman, presumably

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Speaker 1: to keep an eye on her and like try to

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Speaker 1: keep her safe question mark, And she goes to this

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Speaker 1: shopping center. He watches her go into a store, peeps

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Speaker 1: at her while she's trying on a pair of underwear,

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Speaker 1: and meanwhile the creepy guy is still stalking her also,

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Speaker 1: so Jake's kind of keeping an eye on both her

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Speaker 1: and this other stalker. Jake then gets into an elevator

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Speaker 1: with her. Wait before they get in the elevator, the

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Speaker 1: first I believe the first line a woman has in

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Speaker 1: the Hall movie has a woman calling security on Jake.

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Speaker 1: I think it's like it's like over a half hour

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Speaker 1: into the movie, because we've seen many women at this point,

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Speaker 1: we've spent we spent minutes at a time, lingering on

420
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:07,040
Speaker 1: this dance routine. We see like there's a lot of

421
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 1: Jake looking. I mean, the whole movie is Jake looking

422
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:12,679
Speaker 1: at women, and that's obviously on purpose. But even when

423
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:14,679
Speaker 1: he catches his girlfriend cheating on him, she just like

424
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:19,240
Speaker 1: stares at him of like oh, yike, right, and then

425
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:21,480
Speaker 1: and then he just leaves so she doesn't even get

426
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,800
Speaker 1: a line of dialogue. And then, yeah, the first time

427
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:27,960
Speaker 1: you hear a woman speak it is to call security

428
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 1: on him for being a peeping tom on Gloria while

429
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 1: she's getting changed in of fucking dressing room, but also

430
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 1: protecting her. You're like, what, she leaves an enormous gap

431
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:44,000
Speaker 1: in the curtain of the dressing room, just like in

432
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 1: the middle of it, and it's like that's not a

433
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 1: choice that anyone makes the time. Well, yeah, it's like

434
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:54,159
Speaker 1: the way that the character characters are written in this

435
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,560
Speaker 1: movie are like completely irrational. But like, I did think

436
00:24:57,600 --> 00:24:59,639
Speaker 1: it was funny that it takes a half hour for

437
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:01,439
Speaker 1: a woman this week, and then it's just like, we

438
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:03,639
Speaker 1: need to get this guy out of here. There's not

439
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,200
Speaker 1: a single crew member who's female or talks. There's not

440
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:10,560
Speaker 1: a single any even side character women voices, and I think, uh,

441
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,960
Speaker 1: because you see the woman in the store interact with

442
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:16,920
Speaker 1: the person he's stalking for like a minute, but you

443
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,240
Speaker 1: don't hear the conversation. So I was like, if we

444
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,640
Speaker 1: heard the conversation, maybe this would pass the test. But

445
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 1: maybe not just talking about underwear. We're watching. We're watching

446
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:31,160
Speaker 1: the creepy is guy alive observing them having a conversation? Yeah,

447
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 1: well staring at the Uh. This movie is so bizarre.

448
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 1: Um yeah, yeah, I don't love it. I hate it.

449
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 1: Um Okay, So Jake, so he's like kind of following

450
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 1: and keeping an eye on everyone. He then gets into

451
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 1: an elevator with her, but oh no, his cluster photo

452
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 1: we h uh. And then she throws her old pair

453
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:55,359
Speaker 1: of underwear away after she's bought this new pair. Who knows. Wait,

454
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 1: I thought it was the new pair. She throws away

455
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:00,439
Speaker 1: the old one. I think so because she where's the

456
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 1: new one out of the store and she puts the

457
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 1: old pair in the bag? Yeah, he was. It was

458
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:10,360
Speaker 1: a sniffing situation. So he he takes her old underwear

459
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:14,720
Speaker 1: out of the trash, and I do think he smells it. Yeah,

460
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 1: And I mean not to king shame. But he as

461
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,919
Speaker 1: I say, but it's like, but she, you can't do that.

462
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 1: You can't underwear from them without them knowing. Yes. So

463
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 1: he takes her to wear out of the trash, and

464
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 1: then he follows her to the beach, spies on her there,

465
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:34,399
Speaker 1: eavesdrops on her phone conversations, and then Jake see's the

466
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 1: creepy guy again, the other sorry, the other creepy guy.

467
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:41,640
Speaker 1: He gets so close there. I was talking to kill

468
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 1: It about this over text yesterday, where like in that

469
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 1: scene where like he's watching her from like the tents

470
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:51,399
Speaker 1: on the beach, and then she looks at him, and

471
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 1: the music swells as if to be like she does

472
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 1: notice him, and you're like, oh my god, what's going on?

473
00:26:56,480 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 1: And then two seconds later, Because honestly, I did strung

474
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 1: able to like pay attention to this movie. It's really hard.

475
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,880
Speaker 1: I kept kind of getting distracted because there's all these

476
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 1: long wing grief shots where it's like creepy and nothing

477
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:11,720
Speaker 1: is happening. So I looked down at my phone for

478
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 1: ten seconds, and then I looked up again and he

479
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 1: was like standing right behind her, and she had no idea.

480
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 1: This is yet another example of like object of protagonist

481
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 1: desire has no spatial awareness for plot reasons, it's so

482
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 1: frustrating situation. So so he's on the beach now he's

483
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 1: stalking this woman whose name we will learn is Gloria Revel.

484
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:38,640
Speaker 1: Pretty soon he's doing exactly what the other creepy guys doing,

485
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,800
Speaker 1: which is also stalking her. But Jake catches up to

486
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 1: her and he's like, someone's following you and she's like,

487
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 1: I know, and he's like, but it's not me, and

488
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,160
Speaker 1: it's like, yes it is, and also it's someone else,

489
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 1: and just then the other creepy guy grabs her purse

490
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,359
Speaker 1: and runs off, so Jake chases after him, but the

491
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 1: guy runs into a tunnel and Jake can't keep going

492
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 1: because of his claustrophobia. So the guy takes something out

493
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 1: of the purse, we're not sure what yet, and then

494
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 1: he runs off. So then the woman catches up. Gloria

495
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 1: catches up with Jake, and then they start making out

496
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:18,640
Speaker 1: for a while. Just kisses her for a while. It's uncomfortable,

497
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 1: and it's also like, it looks like it makes me uncomfortable,

498
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:25,160
Speaker 1: but they also look uncomfortable. She looks uncomfortable because she's

499
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:29,399
Speaker 1: saying no no, yes, no, yes, no, not here because

500
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,399
Speaker 1: she's like into it, we're supposed to think for a while,

501
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:34,440
Speaker 1: and then she's like but no, I can't not here,

502
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:37,920
Speaker 1: and then she runs off. I kept waiting for that

503
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 1: to be revealed to have been like a fantasy of Jake's,

504
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 1: especially like the more it's completely irrational when it happens,

505
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 1: but then as the plot goes on and it becomes

506
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 1: this whole like bizarrow conspiracy, Hollywood something blah blah blah,

507
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 1: Like it makes less and less sense the more you know,

508
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 1: because the more you know, the more you're like, how

509
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 1: does Gloria even know this guy exists? Like half the

510
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 1: time he was peeping on her, it wasn't even hurt.

511
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 1: Like it's so bizarre that she would want anything to

512
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 1: do with this guy. Yeah, I kept waiting for it

513
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 1: to be like the whole thing is a dream, but

514
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 1: she's just so horny. But like that's the thing. Every

515
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 1: woman in this movie is so ready to have sex,

516
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 1: which no judgment on that, but it does not with

517
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 1: Jake Scully, Like why does she make out with him

518
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 1: when he just like starts kissing it? Like that didn't

519
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 1: make And like you said, I thought it was going

520
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 1: to be a fantasy, because there are other moments in

521
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 1: the movie where he seems to be fantasizing about something,

522
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 1: but like, it turns out not to be a fantasy.

523
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 1: They actually kissed on the beach, and for some reason

524
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 1: she was into it for a while. She runs off eventually.

525
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,960
Speaker 1: It's so like the camera angle on that scene where

526
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 1: it's like spinning around them. It's supposed to be really

527
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 1: like sweeping romantic and like, so again, I feel like

528
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 1: even the camera work in the music is leading you

529
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 1: to believe that this isn't actually happening, but then it

530
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 1: just was. I thought so too, but then it just

531
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 1: was confusing bad filmmaking. Okay. That night, Jake spies on

532
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 1: Gloria in her home again with the telescope, and he

533
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 1: sees the other creepy guy in her house now, so

534
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 1: he tries to call her and warn her. He runs

535
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 1: to her house to help her, but the creepy guy

536
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 1: attacks Gloria with a large power drill and kills her.

537
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 1: Jake breaks into her house to save her, but it's

538
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 1: too late. She has been murdered. I guess the power

539
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 1: drill thing is a thing in Scarface as well, and

540
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 1: so everyone was just like, Okay, Brian de Palma is

541
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 1: obsessed with power drills. I don't remember that. But it's

542
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 1: also been like over fifteen years since I've seen Scarface.

543
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 1: I'm realizing I don't like crime syndicate movies. I find

544
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 1: them very boring. But we will cover The Godfather someday

545
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 1: on this show, because it was because I think it

546
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 1: would be funny. Yeah, well, yeah, someday. We cut to

547
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 1: the cops at the scene of the crime and we

548
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 1: meet Detective McLean, who questions Jake and he's like, you're

549
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:17,480
Speaker 1: the only witness, and also you're a peeping tom and

550
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 1: a pervert, and I can see Gloria's underwear in your

551
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 1: pocket right now, and kind of what that the whole scene.

552
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 1: We were talking about it a little earlier, but you're like,

553
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 1: first of all, it's disorienting because the cop appears to

554
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 1: be correct, but also we're not supposed to, Like Brian

555
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 1: to Paul was like a cab. The one time a

556
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 1: cop is correct, it's like so exactly. Also in that scene,

557
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 1: I feel like this is it just feels very nineteen

558
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 1: eighties that in that scene and also very now, but like,

559
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 1: particularly with like the mask offulness about it. The detective

560
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 1: correctly says, like peeping is against the law. He could

561
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 1: have like, he's like, I'm not gonna hold you. He

562
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 1: says sexual harassed or like sexual something you said, like

563
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 1: you're a sexual whatever he said, but the guy was like, no,

564
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 1: I'm not. He calls him a sex offender, I think,

565
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 1: and he's right, but then he's like, but I can't

566
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 1: I can't hold you. I'm like, but you literally can

567
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 1: you just correctly stated the crime he's committing. And then

568
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 1: later on when like Jake calls him back, it's like

569
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 1: talking his fucking Q and on bullshit. The detective is like, oh,

570
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 1: it's if it isn't Hollywood's biggest sex offender. And I'm like,

571
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 1: just arrest him, Like what do you mean? I just like,

572
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 1: at every turn, At every turn, Jake makes it increasingly

573
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 1: harder to root for him, you know what I mean,

574
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 1: Like he's not really someone. It's just in the beginning

575
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, I feel bad, this guy got cheated

576
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 1: on right in front of his face. And then you

577
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 1: as the more you go on, you're just like, oh,

578
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 1: he's terrible. Yeah, I have a whole thing about that.

579
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 1: So the cop is questioning Jake, and this is when

580
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 1: they start referring to the creepy stalker killer guy as

581
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 1: the Indian because he appears to be an indigenous man.

582
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 1: I didn't even think about that. The first thing I

583
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 1: noticed about the creepy guy that they made him very ugly,

584
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 1: like like his face was like melting off, and so

585
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 1: I thought it was funny, like, oh, they're making the

586
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 1: evil guy ugly, surprise, surprise, But then to call him

587
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 1: like an Indian was so random to me. I was like, what,

588
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 1: that's what you were going for this whole time, like

589
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 1: a tan leathery man. Right. It almost felt like the

590
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 1: movie tell on itself because I agree with you, like

591
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 1: they like, it's an extremely offensive thing to say. And

592
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 1: also I was like if they hadn't said that, I

593
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 1: never in a million years would have guessed that that

594
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 1: was what exactly they had been going for. So it

595
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 1: makes it like twice as bad. And then it's like

596
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 1: a fucking horror movie proce any spoiler alert, but like

597
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 1: you have to watch this movie. So so we learned that.

598
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 1: Then we see Jake watching porn and he sees because

599
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,960
Speaker 1: like the movie, then just as like, well, this murder happened.

600
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 1: Let's have Jake watch porn like what to get over

601
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 1: it to console himself, right, because he loves peeping. He

602
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:19,880
Speaker 1: loves watching. So he sees a performer named Holly Body

603
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 1: played by Melanie Griffith, doing the exact same sexy dance

604
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 1: in the porn film as Gloria was doing in her

605
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 1: house while Jake was peeping on her, and he's like,

606
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 1: wait a minute, why is that the same dance? So

607
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:36,359
Speaker 1: he goes and tries to get close to Holly, which

608
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 1: he does by auditioning for a porn role opposite Holly.

609
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:43,799
Speaker 1: He gets the part. They do a scene together and

610
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:47,759
Speaker 1: then Jake pretends to be this rich porn producer and

611
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 1: he acts like he wants to cast Holly in his movie,

612
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:54,399
Speaker 1: and again he's really starting to look like Bill Maher

613
00:34:54,440 --> 00:35:00,120
Speaker 1: At this point. It's starting to get pretty disturbing. And

614
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 1: it's also like, like, I don't know, Jake sucks so

615
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,360
Speaker 1: bad as a character, But like once he got to

616
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:09,839
Speaker 1: the point where he was pretending to I was like,

617
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 1: what is even his end game? What is he doing?

618
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 1: The movie got so confusing for me at this point

619
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 1: because I just could not follow the jump between this

620
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:22,880
Speaker 1: murder and then suddenly he's like, I'm a porn actor.

621
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:25,640
Speaker 1: Now I'm like I couldn't follow his motive, Like why

622
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 1: is he doing that? I didn't understand at first. And

623
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:30,799
Speaker 1: also I hated I really hated that they made him

624
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:33,279
Speaker 1: like into a good lover because like she was like

625
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 1: really into it, and just like I really disliked that.

626
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:39,879
Speaker 1: But yeah, he also gets like ten shades darker when

627
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 1: he becomes this Holliway producer, which I think is really weird.

628
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 1: It's like a tan, like a Hollywood tan. He keeps

629
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 1: getting creepier and creepier. So he's like, I want to

630
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 1: put you in my movie. I also want to hire

631
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 1: you for a private performance. So she goes to this

632
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 1: place where he's been staying and then he's like, by

633
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:59,400
Speaker 1: the way, I'm not a porn producer. There's no movie

634
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:01,520
Speaker 1: that I'm trying to cast you in. What I need

635
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 1: to know is did someone hire you to dance in

636
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:09,359
Speaker 1: the house across the way? And she reluctantly tells him yes,

637
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 1: it was her dancing, and that Sam is the guy

638
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:16,600
Speaker 1: who hired her to put on this little show, knowing

639
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:20,279
Speaker 1: Jake would be watching it through the telescope. So Jake

640
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 1: starts to piece together that Sam set up Jake to

641
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:28,840
Speaker 1: be the witness to this murder. He wanted Jake to

642
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 1: watch the neighbor woman and hired Holly Body to be

643
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 1: a body double for Gloria, and that basically, Sam, whose

644
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 1: real name is Alexander Ravel a k a. Gloria's his

645
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 1: wife or no, her husband, he wanted to kill his wife, Gloria,

646
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 1: so he made sure Jake witnessed someone else committing the

647
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 1: murder so that no one would suspect Alexander ravel While

648
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:06,320
Speaker 1: that this all kind of works out for him. Yeah, yeah, truly.

649
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:10,920
Speaker 1: So Jake is figuring all of this out. But Holly

650
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 1: is pissed that Jake lied to her and lured her

651
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:17,879
Speaker 1: there under false pretenses, so she storms out, but oh no,

652
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 1: she gets abducted by the creepy guy, the murderer. So

653
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:25,200
Speaker 1: Jake goes after her to save her, and then he

654
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 1: comes upon them in a reservoir. The creepy guy is

655
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:32,480
Speaker 1: digging a grave to dump Holly body into. How do they?

656
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 1: How do he find him? How did they? How did

657
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 1: he find there? She was like running on foot from

658
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:40,239
Speaker 1: the cops. Right suddenly he knows where they are. I

659
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know that is a plot hole.

660
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 1: So but he finds them and Jake scuffles with the

661
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:53,279
Speaker 1: murderer um and he turns out to be Sam a

662
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:59,319
Speaker 1: k a. Alexander Revel, wearing a mask of apparently an

663
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 1: indigenous person because again they keep calling him the Indian.

664
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:06,440
Speaker 1: But he's wearing this like fake prosthetic mask that Jake

665
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:08,799
Speaker 1: rips off of him, and it's revealed that he is

666
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:12,279
Speaker 1: Sam a k a. Alexander Ravel, and that he had

667
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 1: just been wearing this mask every time that we saw

668
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:18,920
Speaker 1: that character. Then Jake ends up in the grave. He

669
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 1: can't get out because of his claustrophobia, but then he

670
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 1: has this like fantasy about how he's back on the

671
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:27,719
Speaker 1: set of the Vampire movie and he's able to overcome

672
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:30,440
Speaker 1: his claustrophobia in that moment and he's able to get

673
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:34,880
Speaker 1: out of the grave, but then Alexander's dog attacks. There's

674
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 1: also a very anti dog agenda in this movie that

675
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:42,440
Speaker 1: I did not appreciate every dog, and also if you

676
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:44,840
Speaker 1: read the movie correctly, it is a good dog agenda,

677
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:47,360
Speaker 1: because all the dogs are like, let's kill Jake Scully,

678
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 1: let's get him, let's get rid of him. He's dogs things, yes,

679
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:56,799
Speaker 1: but the dog knocks the bad guy into like the

680
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 1: water at the reservoir, and then Jake helps Holly out

681
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:02,560
Speaker 1: of the grave and the dog dies with him. Right,

682
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:07,360
Speaker 1: the dog is just in the water now maybe dead um.

683
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 1: And then Jake helps Holly out of the grave, but

684
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 1: she's like, you're sick, you're a necrophiliac. And then she

685
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 1: gets back into the grave and then just sits there

686
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:19,319
Speaker 1: and he's like, fine, stay in there if you do.

687
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 1: You know though, that's how you know you've really found

688
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:24,640
Speaker 1: a vile person. If you're like I would rather literally

689
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 1: hang in this grave then go to safety with you,

690
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 1: So goodbye, And that's how the scene ends. That's how

691
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:37,399
Speaker 1: he's like, are you go? And then right, and then

692
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 1: we cut away. It's like maybe, and then we cut

693
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:44,319
Speaker 1: away to Jake on set of the Vampire movie. He

694
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 1: has apparently been hired back to play the part, and

695
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 1: they're shooting a scene where the woman who is in

696
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 1: the scene with him has a body double for the

697
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 1: shots of her breasts. So, just when you thought there

698
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:02,320
Speaker 1: couldn't be any more l gays cinematography in this movie,

699
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 1: the movie ends with just a long shot of the

700
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 1: body doubles bare breasts the longest the longest shot on

701
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:12,840
Speaker 1: a boob I've ever seen in the movies ever, truly,

702
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:17,000
Speaker 1: and then the body double and the actor in this

703
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:21,719
Speaker 1: scene who's playing opposite Jake is being murdered actively by

704
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 1: this vampire that Jake is playing. So that's how the

705
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:27,799
Speaker 1: movie ends, and we're like, who, I do think it's

706
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 1: funny as a vampire. He has blonde slipped back here,

707
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 1: so I think it's even more kind of Bill Murray

708
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:37,240
Speaker 1: but was better makeup. But I also think you skipped

709
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:40,879
Speaker 1: over something. There was a scene that I had to replay.

710
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:44,480
Speaker 1: But it's the musical on the set of the porn shoot. Yes,

711
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,880
Speaker 1: there's suddenly relaxed by what's I don't know who's. It

712
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 1: just starts blasting and it's the band. It's the band

713
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 1: who sings the song is performing. Maybe one of the

714
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 1: only parts that I did like, Yeah, I like that part.

715
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:01,840
Speaker 1: I was like, whoa poor musical? Okay, I'm doubt But

716
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 1: it's also confusing because because you realize that it's part

717
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:09,280
Speaker 1: of the porn movie that is being shot that Jake

718
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:12,279
Speaker 1: is in, but that's not clear for a while, so

719
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:14,880
Speaker 1: it just seems like Jake is just like in the

720
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 1: sex club wearing glasses and there's someone singing directly at

721
00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 1: him even and I'm like, is this a fantasy? Is

722
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:27,400
Speaker 1: this what is happening? Is this like him going to

723
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:30,760
Speaker 1: a sex club for research? Like it's not clear what's happening.

724
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:33,040
Speaker 1: And then you're like, oh, I guess this is part

725
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 1: of the porn movie. Sure, but you don't see the

726
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:40,920
Speaker 1: cameras until the actual sex scene. So it's like, what anyways,

727
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:45,240
Speaker 1: a little thirty seconds though or something. I really enjoyed music.

728
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:47,600
Speaker 1: It is fun. If I saw that without contacts for

729
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:51,239
Speaker 1: what the movie was, I'd be like, yeah, yeah, looks

730
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:54,279
Speaker 1: like a cool movie. So that is body double. Let's

731
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:56,960
Speaker 1: take another break and we will come back to discuss.

732
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:08,880
Speaker 1: And we're back, all right, So where shall we? I

733
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:11,799
Speaker 1: think that maybe starting with some a little bit of

734
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:13,960
Speaker 1: diploma context will like kind of set up the rest

735
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:17,240
Speaker 1: of the discussion, because I do feel like there are

736
00:42:17,239 --> 00:42:19,279
Speaker 1: people who get I mean, I feel like this is

737
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:23,040
Speaker 1: true of all like you tour direct tools, but like

738
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:25,880
Speaker 1: I feel like this like this group of guys specifically,

739
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:31,959
Speaker 1: people really get their holes get all tense if you

740
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:35,439
Speaker 1: don't love it, which we've been dealing with this for years,

741
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:38,880
Speaker 1: but I just wanted to start by contextualizing where this

742
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 1: comes in his filmography and what he said about the movie,

743
00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:45,040
Speaker 1: because I do feel like it kind of like neutralizes

744
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:48,920
Speaker 1: any film boy like it's actually good. I'm like, I

745
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:52,439
Speaker 1: don't even think Brian de Palma thinks that, but go off.

746
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:55,560
Speaker 1: So this movie comes in like, like you said, she

747
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 1: comes right after Scarface. It also comes um within a

748
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:04,000
Speaker 1: few years of his other major Hitchcock rip off, which

749
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 1: is called Dressed to Kill. I haven't seen it. I

750
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 1: have seen that very Hitchcock roop off. So it's basically

751
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 1: a rip off of Psycho that there's been a lot

752
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:17,480
Speaker 1: of discussion around. It's very, very problematic. You should have

753
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:20,759
Speaker 1: to watch it eventually just to understand how weird it is. Right, Like,

754
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:25,279
Speaker 1: there's there's a very like it's about trans person who

755
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:29,319
Speaker 1: is a psychopath murderer. So you know, look, there's been

756
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 1: that's a separate episode Michael Caine. Ok Right, that movie

757
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:37,920
Speaker 1: gets brought up in disclosure. I think, ye, yes, Okay,

758
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:41,560
Speaker 1: that's how I know it. Okay, yes, exactly. So that's

759
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:44,920
Speaker 1: like the era that he's in at this time, and

760
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:46,759
Speaker 1: I think we should just cover Dressed to Kill at

761
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:50,840
Speaker 1: a different time because we don't really have the bandwidth

762
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:53,319
Speaker 1: for it today. But so that's like sort of where

763
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 1: he would like he's he's trying it not to be

764
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:58,319
Speaker 1: like completely reductive, but it just seems like he's kind

765
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:01,880
Speaker 1: of going for like edge Lord Hitchcock vibe at this

766
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:05,879
Speaker 1: phase in his career, like post production Code Hitchcock, where

767
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:07,840
Speaker 1: he's like, well, I can make a Hitchcock movie, but

768
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:13,400
Speaker 1: now really sexy and really like gratuitous nudity and violence

769
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 1: and violence toward women. I can make it any phobic

770
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:22,560
Speaker 1: you want, transphobic, homophobic, yeah, misogynistic, whatever you whatever you want.

771
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 1: It's you can do that now. Um not not us,

772
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:29,400
Speaker 1: like I mean, not advocating for the fucking production code,

773
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 1: but like this is like kind of was where he

774
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:35,720
Speaker 1: was at at this time. I feel like it's interesting

775
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:37,400
Speaker 1: where a lot of movies we talked about from this

776
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 1: era are considered to be very sexist in retrospect, this

777
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 1: movie was also considered very sexist when it came out,

778
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:52,480
Speaker 1: which I think is like kind of unusual, especially, I

779
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:55,360
Speaker 1: mean whatever, We've covered a million movies from the eighties

780
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:58,040
Speaker 1: and nineties. I mean, I'm surprised to hear that, right,

781
00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 1: like you, I honestly, I don't trust people from the eighties.

782
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 1: But there was a big backlash to this movie when

783
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 1: it came out. It was not a hit. It was

784
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:13,240
Speaker 1: not reviewed well at the time. So let me see okay,

785
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:16,719
Speaker 1: So Vincent Canby of The New York Times says, de

786
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:20,040
Speaker 1: Palma quote again goes too far, which is the reason

787
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:23,400
Speaker 1: to see it. It's sexy and explicitly crude, entertaining and

788
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 1: sometimes very funny. And then he just says, like it's

789
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:29,640
Speaker 1: a sexiest rip off of Hitchcock. So it gets like

790
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:34,799
Speaker 1: very very mixed reviews. The biggest point of contention when

791
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:38,440
Speaker 1: the movie comes out is the drill scene, which we'll

792
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:42,319
Speaker 1: talk about, but like that gruesome a murder of a

793
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:44,279
Speaker 1: woman who we barely know and barely get to hear

794
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:48,640
Speaker 1: speak also bothered viewers in the eighties. It sparked a

795
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:51,000
Speaker 1: lot of feminist backlash as well. But that was what

796
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:53,880
Speaker 1: bothered them the most. I didn't realize. I mean, I

797
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:56,759
Speaker 1: know it's bad, but if that's the one that the

798
00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 1: thing that bothered them the most, it's kind of weird

799
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:01,880
Speaker 1: to me. But he continued, Yeah, that that is like

800
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:05,160
Speaker 1: where the focus of most of the criticism. Like there's

801
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 1: a lot of people that were like they lost me

802
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:10,879
Speaker 1: at the drill and not at the Peeping Thompson, which

803
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:14,600
Speaker 1: I feel like is the exactly Yeah, the drill isn't

804
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:20,840
Speaker 1: exactly like misogynistic per se. It's like gross but right, Okay.

805
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:23,520
Speaker 1: So and then as far as what de Palma says

806
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:27,400
Speaker 1: about this stuff, I mean, he's like I remember watching

807
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:29,440
Speaker 1: this came out maybe like five or six years ago.

808
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 1: There was a documentary about his work where he was interviewed.

809
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:37,160
Speaker 1: It was made by like Noah Bomboch, and he was

810
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:42,319
Speaker 1: asked about how he frames and portrays women in his

811
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:46,680
Speaker 1: work because a lot of people, I think correctly think

812
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:53,680
Speaker 1: that he's really bad at it. Uh, and what he now,

813
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:57,120
Speaker 1: So de Pauma is kind of well, I'll just read

814
00:46:57,120 --> 00:46:59,560
Speaker 1: the quote, but like kind of deflective and like the

815
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:01,719
Speaker 1: sort of thing where you're like you can tell and

816
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:04,239
Speaker 1: like someone's been asked the same question and they like

817
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:06,960
Speaker 1: maybe secretly know they're wrong and they're like, oh, this

818
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:09,880
Speaker 1: question again, and it's like, yeah, you've never answered it.

819
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:13,440
Speaker 1: Um Okay. So here's what he said a couple of

820
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 1: years ago to Entertainment Weekly about body double. Specifically, he says, quote,

821
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:20,880
Speaker 1: I've been dealing with this all my career. Fortunately now

822
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:23,239
Speaker 1: Quentin Tarantino has to deal with it, so I don't

823
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:26,279
Speaker 1: have to deal with it anymore. Violence and women. He's

824
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:28,440
Speaker 1: the director who has the biggest persona in that area.

825
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:30,719
Speaker 1: In fact, we had a conversation about it once, which

826
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:33,360
Speaker 1: was funny. I say the same thing over and over again.

827
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:35,480
Speaker 1: If I can create a sequence where you're gazing at

828
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:37,719
Speaker 1: a woman or following a woman, it seems to me

829
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:40,480
Speaker 1: like a basic building block of cinema. I think it

830
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:43,280
Speaker 1: was Jean Luke Goddard who said the history of cinema

831
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:46,799
Speaker 1: is men photographic women. I mean, look at advertising. Every

832
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:49,440
Speaker 1: magazine cover is a woman. It draws the gaze of

833
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:51,399
Speaker 1: a man and the gaze of a woman who's looking

834
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:53,720
Speaker 1: at what she's wearing. We look at women all the time,

835
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:56,000
Speaker 1: look at the red carpet and can all they do

836
00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:58,360
Speaker 1: is take pictures of women, and it dominates the coverage.

837
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:01,480
Speaker 1: It's so obvious to me. It's not thing I discovered. Unquote.

838
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:05,960
Speaker 1: So I feel like he is like pretty blatantly like, yeah,

839
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:09,399
Speaker 1: everyone's sexist, and that's why I am like, that's kind

840
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 1: of like what a good defense. I mean, I just

841
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:17,440
Speaker 1: looked up. I was honest Wikipedia, I was curious about

842
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:20,360
Speaker 1: like his romantic life. Nothing weird there. But there is

843
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:23,680
Speaker 1: a quote that I'm seeing on Wikipedia because he responded

844
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 1: to these accusations saying, I'm always attacked for having an erotic,

845
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:31,080
Speaker 1: sexist approach, chopping up women, putting women in peril. I'm

846
00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:35,480
Speaker 1: making suspense movies. What else is supposed to happen to them? Yes,

847
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:40,360
Speaker 1: I yeah, that's another one. I thought like he's extremely

848
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:44,120
Speaker 1: like learning about his attitude towards the subject, maybe like

849
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:47,480
Speaker 1: the movie even less because I thought, like, I mean,

850
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:51,239
Speaker 1: there's nothing to be said for being openly misogynistic. But

851
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:54,480
Speaker 1: it is a little bit surprising to hear someone not

852
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:57,200
Speaker 1: even bothered to make up a weird lie about it.

853
00:48:57,640 --> 00:48:59,920
Speaker 1: I guess I appreciate that he's like, yeah, I'm sexist,

854
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:02,080
Speaker 1: you could believe it. But and a lot of people

855
00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 1: take it take it which is but people think it's

856
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:09,120
Speaker 1: like this reflective self conscious awareness thing. That's the thing

857
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:12,160
Speaker 1: that that that is most of his defense for other

858
00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:15,200
Speaker 1: from other people anyway. But right, so yeah, like all

859
00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:17,240
Speaker 1: the all the defense I was reading of this movie

860
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:22,880
Speaker 1: rest on Brian de Palma being aware of things that

861
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:26,680
Speaker 1: he is saying he doesn't care about. So I just

862
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:29,720
Speaker 1: feel like, you know whatever, it's a movie, think whatever

863
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:33,040
Speaker 1: you want. It's not a particularly influential movie, and I'm

864
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:37,120
Speaker 1: happy for that. But yeah, I feel like he's basically

865
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:39,840
Speaker 1: given you all the information you need. He's given us

866
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:44,239
Speaker 1: all the clues Mr police Man, Mr Policeman, much like

867
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:49,200
Speaker 1: Jake Scully. So anyways, that's that's the context of the movie.

868
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:55,120
Speaker 1: And it made me really um dislike Brian de paul

869
00:49:55,719 --> 00:50:01,960
Speaker 1: personally seriously, right, because so this movie can basically just

870
00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:09,680
Speaker 1: be summarized as a movie about a man leering at

871
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:15,160
Speaker 1: a woman without her knowledge or consent, following stalking, eaves

872
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:21,080
Speaker 1: dropping on this woman, stealing her underway, like all this stuff.

873
00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:24,240
Speaker 1: And of course this lends to a lot of leering

874
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:28,680
Speaker 1: male gaze cinematography, maybe more so than in any movie

875
00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:33,759
Speaker 1: I've ever seen, which, like you could argue, matches up

876
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:37,680
Speaker 1: with the leering and peeping that Jake is doing. So

877
00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:40,200
Speaker 1: that's why the choice is made. But like that just

878
00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:43,040
Speaker 1: me like, you just made a movie about a man leering,

879
00:50:43,080 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 1: and that's you made a movie about a sex offender, right,

880
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:48,680
Speaker 1: and why are you doing that without making any actual commentary,

881
00:50:49,400 --> 00:50:54,200
Speaker 1: you're just following a sex offender sefender, like right, a

882
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:57,400
Speaker 1: sex offender who is like certain he's not a sex offender,

883
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:02,080
Speaker 1: which the movie does not do very much to push

884
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:03,759
Speaker 1: back on. I feel like the most of the movie

885
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:07,640
Speaker 1: does is have the detective repeatedly be like, what's up,

886
00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:12,319
Speaker 1: sex offender and in a few moments with hot with

887
00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:17,359
Speaker 1: Holly where she is correctly like, you need to get

888
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 1: away from me, but like, but I don't. I still

889
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:23,360
Speaker 1: think the movie is essentially like I don't know. It

890
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:25,960
Speaker 1: seems like the movie is kind of behind him definitely,

891
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:29,439
Speaker 1: because I think when the cop challenges him and calls

892
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:31,520
Speaker 1: him a sex offender and a pervert and a peeping

893
00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:34,440
Speaker 1: tom and all that stuff, I think this is the

894
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:39,359
Speaker 1: movie just framing the cop as being an obstacle for

895
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:42,040
Speaker 1: the protagonist who we are supposed to be rooting for,

896
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:47,440
Speaker 1: more than the movie actually making any commentary on stalkery

897
00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:52,880
Speaker 1: sex offender behavior. Because again, this character who is stalking

898
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:56,359
Speaker 1: and and peeping and doing all man or of other

899
00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:59,000
Speaker 1: horrible things, this is the guy we're supposed to be

900
00:51:59,239 --> 00:52:02,160
Speaker 1: rooting for, and even though he's doing the same exact things,

901
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:06,800
Speaker 1: what the antagonist is doing. It's because Jake's intentions are

902
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:11,240
Speaker 1: like quote unquote pure and like to keep a woman

903
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:14,239
Speaker 1: safe and like all this stuff. It's actually fine that

904
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:17,279
Speaker 1: he's a stalker according to the movie, and like you

905
00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:20,880
Speaker 1: mentioned Stream, like the movie does all these things to

906
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:23,800
Speaker 1: frame Jake in such a way that we are meant

907
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:27,160
Speaker 1: to sympathize with him, because, yeah, he got his heartbroken

908
00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:30,920
Speaker 1: by his cheating girlfriend, he got fired from the movie

909
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:35,160
Speaker 1: that he's on. He has childhood trauma and claustrophobia, like

910
00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:37,880
Speaker 1: all of these things that are there to make the

911
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:42,279
Speaker 1: audience empathize and sympathize with him. And he is like

912
00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:47,800
Speaker 1: trying to save women in peril from this quote unquote

913
00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:52,200
Speaker 1: evil Indian and he's this you know, quote unquote safe

914
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:55,200
Speaker 1: white man, and there's a whole conversation to be had

915
00:52:55,239 --> 00:52:58,560
Speaker 1: about that. But he has these intentions of, oh no,

916
00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:03,000
Speaker 1: I'm only stalking to save this woman from this other stalker,

917
00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:06,760
Speaker 1: and that's what the whole movie is predicated on. And

918
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:11,120
Speaker 1: I do hate it. Yeah, I think, yeah, I think

919
00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:14,040
Speaker 1: two things. One, he gets everything he wants in the end,

920
00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:16,920
Speaker 1: so obviously it's like you're meant to root for this

921
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:20,080
Speaker 1: person that like gets his career back. Also, Holly is

922
00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:22,200
Speaker 1: on set when he is shooting this, so it's like,

923
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:25,839
Speaker 1: presumably they've made up. Maybe they're even fucking I don't know.

924
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:31,560
Speaker 1: Oh wait, I didn't even notice that. Yeah, she's there. Yeah.

925
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:34,840
Speaker 1: And the other thing is it's not like novel, but

926
00:53:35,239 --> 00:53:37,880
Speaker 1: two people can be creeps, and if one is ugly,

927
00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:40,359
Speaker 1: that's the bad guy, you know what I mean, Like,

928
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:43,240
Speaker 1: I think someone not being like hideous and being white

929
00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:45,920
Speaker 1: and like kind and quotes looking like I think that

930
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:49,160
Speaker 1: gets such a pass. And because the other guy is

931
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:51,399
Speaker 1: like hideous to look at, it's obvious to be like, oh,

932
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:53,360
Speaker 1: that is the bad guy. And I think that is

933
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:56,960
Speaker 1: where some people's wires get cross because they're like, well,

934
00:53:56,960 --> 00:53:58,959
Speaker 1: that guy, he looks like a good person. He's trying

935
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:00,879
Speaker 1: to protect her. But if he looked ugly, you want

936
00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:04,200
Speaker 1: to think that, right, And it's like it's the it's

937
00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:08,720
Speaker 1: the Steve bushemy principle. It's the effect. And it's also

938
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:11,279
Speaker 1: like I don't know, Like again, I just don't see

939
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:14,719
Speaker 1: the argument for like this being commented on in the

940
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:17,719
Speaker 1: movie because it's like he wins in the end, and

941
00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:20,640
Speaker 1: it's like, I I don't know, I mean I try

942
00:54:20,640 --> 00:54:25,240
Speaker 1: to like engage. Yeah, like he he ends up fine,

943
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:29,520
Speaker 1: even though, and then there's this kind of like bizarre,

944
00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:34,040
Speaker 1: complicated like interaction with once he gets involved in the

945
00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:39,560
Speaker 1: porn industry. I feel like it's almost like conflating what

946
00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:45,440
Speaker 1: Jake does, which is sex crimes, with the porn industry,

947
00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:49,120
Speaker 1: where there are certainly ethical issues and like there's you know,

948
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:51,680
Speaker 1: plenty of reporting about how performers are not kept as

949
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:53,719
Speaker 1: safe as they need to be, and there's certainly a lot,

950
00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:56,600
Speaker 1: but it's it's just I feel like generally casts the

951
00:54:56,800 --> 00:55:00,720
Speaker 1: entire industry is like hedonistic and debaucherous and the same

952
00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:04,520
Speaker 1: thing as being a peeping tom essentially, and like that

953
00:55:04,680 --> 00:55:08,160
Speaker 1: is like super reductive, especially when like Holly is like

954
00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:12,640
Speaker 1: the only character of any gender in the movie who

955
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:15,920
Speaker 1: seems to have like a shred of dignity, Like she's

956
00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:21,520
Speaker 1: I really liked when because she's brought into Jake's life

957
00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:25,120
Speaker 1: under false circumstances, like he is lying to her. But

958
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:27,680
Speaker 1: in that first scene where they go to the bar

959
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:33,080
Speaker 1: together after the shoot, she like states her like baseline

960
00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:35,239
Speaker 1: right away, and she's like, this is how much money

961
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:36,719
Speaker 1: I make, this is what I will do, This is

962
00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:39,799
Speaker 1: what I won't do. These are non negotiable things, what

963
00:55:39,880 --> 00:55:43,040
Speaker 1: do you think? And like that's kind of your introduction

964
00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:45,160
Speaker 1: to who she is, and so of all the things

965
00:55:45,160 --> 00:55:48,239
Speaker 1: in this movie, I fucking really don't like. I did

966
00:55:48,320 --> 00:55:51,640
Speaker 1: like that she, I mean, she sees Jake for who

967
00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:54,560
Speaker 1: she is, even if the movie doesn't share that opinion

968
00:55:54,719 --> 00:55:59,000
Speaker 1: or whatever. And she also like knows what she is

969
00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:01,759
Speaker 1: willing to do, would not do, Like she's very like

970
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:06,560
Speaker 1: firm and who she is. And again it's like it's interesting,

971
00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:09,239
Speaker 1: and again it's like whatever, I know, we can't say

972
00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:13,800
Speaker 1: like what the movie's opinion is explicitly. But I liked

973
00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:18,560
Speaker 1: seeing porn star, you know, be portrayed as someone who

974
00:56:18,640 --> 00:56:22,200
Speaker 1: is like in control of their life and like, because

975
00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:25,960
Speaker 1: that's like very often the case, and I feel like

976
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:30,040
Speaker 1: they're rarely portrayed that way in media. And but then

977
00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:33,000
Speaker 1: every other character outside of Holly the movie is not

978
00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:38,719
Speaker 1: portrayed that way at all, and so you're just like what, um,

979
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:41,560
Speaker 1: I liked Holly a lot. I didn't like that she

980
00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:45,200
Speaker 1: appears to stay in Jake's life after, because, like you're saying,

981
00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:47,520
Speaker 1: the last time you see her, she's hiding from him

982
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:51,759
Speaker 1: in a grave. So like under what circumstances did they

983
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:56,239
Speaker 1: overcome that? I don't know, but I liked that she

984
00:56:56,920 --> 00:56:59,960
Speaker 1: told them to funk off kind of at every appropriate term,

985
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:03,640
Speaker 1: But then the movie forces them together in some regard

986
00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:06,640
Speaker 1: in the end. Anyways, I think it was confusing, though,

987
00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:10,120
Speaker 1: because at first I thought of it as a continuation

988
00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:13,680
Speaker 1: of his fantasy, because it was because we we had

989
00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:16,240
Speaker 1: just seen the fantasy of him being able to do

990
00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:17,960
Speaker 1: the coffin scene, to be able to get out of

991
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:20,720
Speaker 1: a grave, and so part of me was like, is

992
00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:24,520
Speaker 1: this a continuation of that timeline or like what he wants?

993
00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:27,800
Speaker 1: Like I wondered that too, But the movie doesn't set

994
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:31,240
Speaker 1: up enough of a precedent for him having these fantasies

995
00:57:31,360 --> 00:57:34,440
Speaker 1: really that it was clear whether or not that was

996
00:57:34,560 --> 00:57:38,680
Speaker 1: a fantasy, because there's that other scene that we already

997
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:40,880
Speaker 1: talked about where we're like, is this a fantasy or no,

998
00:57:41,080 --> 00:57:43,880
Speaker 1: where he's kissing Gloria on the beach, and that turns

999
00:57:43,880 --> 00:57:48,440
Speaker 1: out not to be a fantasy. So I don't know,

1000
00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:55,000
Speaker 1: so unclear. It's confusing. It's and the way okay, and

1001
00:57:55,000 --> 00:57:59,080
Speaker 1: then Glorious character, as we've been talking about throughout, I

1002
00:57:59,400 --> 00:58:02,120
Speaker 1: can't make as their tails of what's going like truly

1003
00:58:02,280 --> 00:58:05,880
Speaker 1: written to be oblivious. It's just like a waif, like

1004
00:58:06,120 --> 00:58:10,479
Speaker 1: hot white, rich lady who cannot We were just talking

1005
00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:13,240
Speaker 1: about this, I mean in a very different movie. We're

1006
00:58:13,240 --> 00:58:16,440
Speaker 1: talking about the forty year old virgin, but like a

1007
00:58:16,560 --> 00:58:20,680
Speaker 1: characters who is like so aimless and underwritten in horny

1008
00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:25,280
Speaker 1: that they don't notice home intruders, like right behind the door.

1009
00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:28,240
Speaker 1: She glides by him at every moment. He's just like

1010
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:30,360
Speaker 1: there's one moment where she answers the phone and he's

1011
00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:32,720
Speaker 1: literally like two ft behind her and she just doesn't

1012
00:58:32,720 --> 00:58:35,920
Speaker 1: see him because her back is turned. It's it's so bizarres.

1013
00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:38,200
Speaker 1: And it's the same thing with Jake when he's standing

1014
00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:41,640
Speaker 1: right behind her, like he's like looming above her on

1015
00:58:41,680 --> 00:58:44,760
Speaker 1: the balcony at the beach shortly before they're making out

1016
00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:48,080
Speaker 1: for no reason, and you're just that is really started,

1017
00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:50,640
Speaker 1: that trope is really starting to bother me. Um, hot

1018
00:58:50,680 --> 00:58:54,120
Speaker 1: woman with no spatial awareness, and you're just like, oh

1019
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:57,680
Speaker 1: my god. That is like most marginalized people are like

1020
00:58:57,920 --> 00:59:01,280
Speaker 1: hyper aware of who's around them. I would have to be.

1021
00:59:01,480 --> 00:59:03,960
Speaker 1: You have to be for your own safety. This is

1022
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:07,320
Speaker 1: something that I've talked about a lot especially in horror movies,

1023
00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:10,240
Speaker 1: where I feel like I'm victim blaming because I'm like,

1024
00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:12,400
Speaker 1: how did you not notice this? Or why did you

1025
00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:14,640
Speaker 1: do this thing to get you killed? It's not a

1026
00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:17,280
Speaker 1: real person, it's a Brian de Palma person, right, But

1027
00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:21,080
Speaker 1: it's always characters, female characters written by men, who are

1028
00:59:21,080 --> 00:59:24,400
Speaker 1: written in such a way that they're oblivious because it

1029
00:59:24,520 --> 00:59:28,480
Speaker 1: serves the story and not because that's how anyone actually

1030
00:59:28,600 --> 00:59:30,720
Speaker 1: behaves in real life. The same thing with like the

1031
00:59:31,480 --> 00:59:34,600
Speaker 1: she leaves like an eight inch gap in the curtain

1032
00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:37,640
Speaker 1: of the dressing room, right, you wouldn't do not because

1033
00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:41,080
Speaker 1: anyone does that, but because the movie needs to allow

1034
00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:43,840
Speaker 1: Jake to peep on her as she's putting a new

1035
00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:47,000
Speaker 1: pair of underwear on. Like, I just I hate and

1036
00:59:46,840 --> 00:59:49,000
Speaker 1: I and I hate I hate that I am doing

1037
00:59:49,040 --> 00:59:52,360
Speaker 1: this kind of victim blame me thing, But it's not.

1038
00:59:52,400 --> 00:59:56,920
Speaker 1: It's not victim blame me if it's written that way, right,

1039
00:59:55,880 --> 00:59:59,320
Speaker 1: Like the men are writing them in a way that

1040
00:59:59,360 --> 01:00:02,479
Speaker 1: they have sperienced life. Yeah, I still always feel weird

1041
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:06,160
Speaker 1: about it, but yeah, it's it's like I'm blaming these

1042
01:00:06,240 --> 01:00:09,360
Speaker 1: female characters who don't actually exist and who are underwritten

1043
01:00:09,400 --> 01:00:14,280
Speaker 1: by men. Who don't know how women actually behave and

1044
01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:17,880
Speaker 1: don't know that we are constantly on guard for our

1045
01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:22,520
Speaker 1: own safety at every waking moment. Terrified of them. Yeah

1046
01:00:22,560 --> 01:00:24,840
Speaker 1: we're not even or like yeah that it's like not

1047
01:00:24,880 --> 01:00:27,800
Speaker 1: that we're terrified of them, We're actually in love with them,

1048
01:00:28,000 --> 01:00:31,160
Speaker 1: which is one of the fucking scariest things you can

1049
01:00:31,160 --> 01:00:34,400
Speaker 1: perpetuate in your mood. Like I know a million people

1050
01:00:34,440 --> 01:00:38,960
Speaker 1: who have experienced ship like that of like a creepy

1051
01:00:39,360 --> 01:00:44,640
Speaker 1: person who like is convinced that you know exactly who

1052
01:00:44,680 --> 01:00:46,800
Speaker 1: they are and you're just like playing hard to get

1053
01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:49,680
Speaker 1: and someday you're going to be together and it's gonna

1054
01:00:49,680 --> 01:00:52,480
Speaker 1: be very romantic and cool. And it's like that is

1055
01:00:52,520 --> 01:00:57,280
Speaker 1: just like not really a thing that happens, but perpetuating

1056
01:00:57,280 --> 01:01:01,680
Speaker 1: it put women in danger all the time. Like I

1057
01:01:01,680 --> 01:01:04,160
Speaker 1: don't know, I've been in situations like that, like and

1058
01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:08,080
Speaker 1: it's it's always very I can't believe that wasn't a

1059
01:01:08,080 --> 01:01:12,640
Speaker 1: fantasy sequence. Like both from like a writing perspective and

1060
01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:16,320
Speaker 1: from like a bectelcast perspective, it is just like what

1061
01:01:16,520 --> 01:01:20,400
Speaker 1: the fuck like And it also like I don't even

1062
01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:24,120
Speaker 1: really know that it like moves the plot forward in

1063
01:01:24,200 --> 01:01:27,600
Speaker 1: any way for that to be true, the movie could Yeah,

1064
01:01:27,640 --> 01:01:30,080
Speaker 1: like the movie could play out the exact same way

1065
01:01:30,200 --> 01:01:33,640
Speaker 1: if that didn't happen totally, yeah right, Like, but I

1066
01:01:33,640 --> 01:01:35,760
Speaker 1: think it added to this illusion or this lie that

1067
01:01:35,840 --> 01:01:39,200
Speaker 1: he's just like amazing lover that women want to fuck,

1068
01:01:39,360 --> 01:01:41,240
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like I painted that element

1069
01:01:41,240 --> 01:01:44,000
Speaker 1: of his character very very much, right, because it just

1070
01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:50,120
Speaker 1: it further just establishes him as a likable and empathetic

1071
01:01:50,320 --> 01:01:52,919
Speaker 1: character or a character who we are supposed to empathize

1072
01:01:52,920 --> 01:01:56,040
Speaker 1: with because oh, if he look at him, go, he's

1073
01:01:56,160 --> 01:01:59,680
Speaker 1: he's a sexpot and he makes women come and isn't

1074
01:01:59,720 --> 01:02:02,480
Speaker 1: that cool? And it's like, first of all, no, he doesn't,

1075
01:02:02,640 --> 01:02:06,440
Speaker 1: and secondly, he's a fucking creep. Right Yeah, It's just

1076
01:02:09,680 --> 01:02:15,120
Speaker 1: it's so frustrating and yeah, whatever, Like I'm trying to

1077
01:02:15,160 --> 01:02:17,760
Speaker 1: think of other like I mean, I mean it's interesting

1078
01:02:17,800 --> 01:02:20,680
Speaker 1: because I feel like, not even that much happens in

1079
01:02:20,720 --> 01:02:23,880
Speaker 1: this movie. It's two hours long, but there's just it's

1080
01:02:23,920 --> 01:02:26,200
Speaker 1: all very At least an hour of it is just

1081
01:02:26,520 --> 01:02:30,600
Speaker 1: shots of Jake following a woman like there's very little,

1082
01:02:30,640 --> 01:02:35,000
Speaker 1: and then she's brutally murdered, which seride, I agree with you,

1083
01:02:35,120 --> 01:02:38,000
Speaker 1: like because I like, I mean, look, I'm I'm a

1084
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:40,320
Speaker 1: soft franchise head. I like to see someone die in

1085
01:02:40,320 --> 01:02:42,960
Speaker 1: a brutal way. I don't like to see a character

1086
01:02:43,040 --> 01:02:46,040
Speaker 1: I know fucking nothing about who I've never seen make

1087
01:02:46,040 --> 01:02:49,040
Speaker 1: a shred of sense in the entire movie brutally murdered

1088
01:02:49,080 --> 01:02:51,360
Speaker 1: with a drill. But you also kind of don't see

1089
01:02:51,360 --> 01:02:53,560
Speaker 1: her brutally murdered with a drill. I think it is

1090
01:02:53,640 --> 01:02:57,600
Speaker 1: far more disturbing to see her followed around, Like I

1091
01:02:57,640 --> 01:03:01,640
Speaker 1: felt more nervous watching herp followed for an hour by

1092
01:03:01,720 --> 01:03:05,320
Speaker 1: multiple people then watching her get murdered by a drill.

1093
01:03:05,520 --> 01:03:10,320
Speaker 1: And I don't think that's the unpopular opinion, unfortunately, because

1094
01:03:10,360 --> 01:03:13,360
Speaker 1: one of those things happens all the time. I don't know,

1095
01:03:13,520 --> 01:03:17,840
Speaker 1: peeping truly fucking terrifies me because you know what happens

1096
01:03:17,840 --> 01:03:20,400
Speaker 1: all the time. Yeah, you can also say the drill

1097
01:03:20,520 --> 01:03:22,880
Speaker 1: is like phallic as well, which is also like another layer,

1098
01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:26,760
Speaker 1: Like I'm sure some film studies professor is talking about

1099
01:03:26,800 --> 01:03:32,960
Speaker 1: that right now, exactly. I don't think this film even

1100
01:03:33,000 --> 01:03:36,080
Speaker 1: had a chance, or like gave itself a chance of

1101
01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:39,840
Speaker 1: passing the Beachdale test. Like there's two women that we

1102
01:03:39,920 --> 01:03:42,640
Speaker 1: see in the movie. One of them is very like

1103
01:03:42,720 --> 01:03:44,920
Speaker 1: has two words that she says and the other one

1104
01:03:45,000 --> 01:03:48,080
Speaker 1: and then gets murdered. Yeah, and then the other one

1105
01:03:48,120 --> 01:03:51,160
Speaker 1: isn't isn't introduced until an hour into the movie, and

1106
01:03:51,240 --> 01:03:53,920
Speaker 1: she oh, she does. Well, we'll get to this. But

1107
01:03:54,320 --> 01:03:58,960
Speaker 1: the other major topic of discussion for this movie is

1108
01:03:59,480 --> 01:04:02,160
Speaker 1: and kind of going back to what you were discussing

1109
01:04:02,480 --> 01:04:06,600
Speaker 1: Sharene about the well, one of these stalkers is quote

1110
01:04:06,640 --> 01:04:11,560
Speaker 1: unquote safe because he's classically handsome, and then also is

1111
01:04:11,600 --> 01:04:15,320
Speaker 1: he sorry, but he's not hideous. I don't think he's handsome,

1112
01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:17,880
Speaker 1: but he's like not he's he looks like a good guy,

1113
01:04:18,200 --> 01:04:20,440
Speaker 1: like in quotes you know what, right, he is not

1114
01:04:20,480 --> 01:04:24,040
Speaker 1: being others like down slanted like puppy eyes or whatever.

1115
01:04:24,160 --> 01:04:26,280
Speaker 1: He does have like a kind looking face. He looks

1116
01:04:26,280 --> 01:04:29,520
Speaker 1: like a little dog to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, a Bilmar.

1117
01:04:29,920 --> 01:04:32,000
Speaker 1: I think I think I'm just reacting to him looking

1118
01:04:32,080 --> 01:04:34,720
Speaker 1: like Bill Mar. Yeah, that it is. It continues to

1119
01:04:34,760 --> 01:04:38,120
Speaker 1: be very distracting, but the audience is he's framed in

1120
01:04:38,160 --> 01:04:41,240
Speaker 1: such a way by the movie, by the filmmakers to be,

1121
01:04:41,480 --> 01:04:46,200
Speaker 1: you know, the handsome, safe white guy. And then the

1122
01:04:46,240 --> 01:04:51,480
Speaker 1: other stalker who the movie telegraphs to the audience is

1123
01:04:52,160 --> 01:04:54,960
Speaker 1: evil and he's the stalker you have to be scared of. Uh.

1124
01:04:55,040 --> 01:04:58,040
Speaker 1: And then he has come to known as the Indian,

1125
01:04:58,760 --> 01:05:00,760
Speaker 1: and for a large chunk of the movie, we are

1126
01:05:00,840 --> 01:05:07,160
Speaker 1: led to believe that an unnamed Indigenous man is a

1127
01:05:07,240 --> 01:05:13,200
Speaker 1: creepy stocker murderer, which obviously has very racist and harmful

1128
01:05:13,240 --> 01:05:16,680
Speaker 1: implications that you know, like as a woman and as

1129
01:05:16,680 --> 01:05:19,800
Speaker 1: a white woman especially, right, that's the type of person

1130
01:05:20,120 --> 01:05:22,320
Speaker 1: that you have to be afraid of, these non white

1131
01:05:22,400 --> 01:05:27,600
Speaker 1: strangers who lurk in the shadows, even though statistically, and

1132
01:05:27,600 --> 01:05:30,280
Speaker 1: we've talked about this all the time, not the women

1133
01:05:30,360 --> 01:05:35,280
Speaker 1: who are survivors of assaulter who are stocked and murdered

1134
01:05:35,280 --> 01:05:37,840
Speaker 1: are usually done so by people they know, and often

1135
01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:41,760
Speaker 1: it's their own partners, which turns out to be true

1136
01:05:42,040 --> 01:05:45,919
Speaker 1: in this movie because the Indian quote unquote is just

1137
01:05:46,680 --> 01:05:50,360
Speaker 1: her husband in a mask. But the movie is like

1138
01:05:50,480 --> 01:05:53,960
Speaker 1: not operating on a high enough level to like be

1139
01:05:54,080 --> 01:05:58,400
Speaker 1: able to land that point, right. It could have been

1140
01:05:59,080 --> 01:06:01,920
Speaker 1: an interesting point because I feel like that scene with

1141
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:04,040
Speaker 1: the detective, there's just like so much going on there.

1142
01:06:04,280 --> 01:06:06,520
Speaker 1: But I feel like one of the reasons that he

1143
01:06:06,640 --> 01:06:09,200
Speaker 1: lets Jake go other than the fact that he doesn't

1144
01:06:09,240 --> 01:06:16,320
Speaker 1: care about women experiencing harassment and murder obviously, is that

1145
01:06:16,520 --> 01:06:20,240
Speaker 1: he is, you know, like many cops and just many

1146
01:06:20,240 --> 01:06:22,440
Speaker 1: people in general. He's like, well, normally I would go

1147
01:06:22,480 --> 01:06:25,840
Speaker 1: after the husband on this one, but you said that

1148
01:06:25,920 --> 01:06:29,400
Speaker 1: it was an indigenous man, and I believe that. And

1149
01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:31,400
Speaker 1: it's like, well, why do you believe that even though

1150
01:06:31,440 --> 01:06:35,200
Speaker 1: there's literally no proof of it, because cops are racist,

1151
01:06:35,520 --> 01:06:38,760
Speaker 1: And it's like that could have been a point that

1152
01:06:38,800 --> 01:06:41,240
Speaker 1: the movie could have made, but it isn't because it's

1153
01:06:41,240 --> 01:06:44,520
Speaker 1: like everyone I kept wanting to think that this could

1154
01:06:44,720 --> 01:06:46,760
Speaker 1: be making some sort of commentary, but it's just like

1155
01:06:47,560 --> 01:06:52,960
Speaker 1: it just never ever was because when you hear that

1156
01:06:53,080 --> 01:06:57,640
Speaker 1: character being referred to as the Indian, it's accepted as

1157
01:06:57,640 --> 01:07:00,640
Speaker 1: a truth across the movie, across the cake, to the

1158
01:07:00,680 --> 01:07:05,880
Speaker 1: point where like even the guy wearing this mask refers

1159
01:07:05,920 --> 01:07:10,800
Speaker 1: to himself as the Indian, and so you're just like, Okay,

1160
01:07:10,800 --> 01:07:12,480
Speaker 1: so this is just something that the writers of the

1161
01:07:12,520 --> 01:07:18,919
Speaker 1: movie believe. Is like, it's it's not making a point

1162
01:07:18,960 --> 01:07:21,439
Speaker 1: that like this character is racist, and that is why

1163
01:07:21,840 --> 01:07:24,960
Speaker 1: this is being accepted as the truth. It's just like

1164
01:07:25,560 --> 01:07:28,480
Speaker 1: perpetuating a racist Trump, but like, yeah, you're right there,

1165
01:07:28,720 --> 01:07:30,960
Speaker 1: they didn't give it a reason. Like the movie as

1166
01:07:31,000 --> 01:07:32,880
Speaker 1: it is now, there is no reason he needs to

1167
01:07:32,880 --> 01:07:34,800
Speaker 1: be Indian, not that he needs a reason, but if

1168
01:07:34,800 --> 01:07:36,760
Speaker 1: he was, if it was pointed out to be a

1169
01:07:36,800 --> 01:07:39,400
Speaker 1: larger commentary, at least there would be like an indication

1170
01:07:39,480 --> 01:07:41,520
Speaker 1: of why they even had to make him not white

1171
01:07:42,040 --> 01:07:44,840
Speaker 1: or something. But the fact that it's just like sprinkled

1172
01:07:44,880 --> 01:07:48,800
Speaker 1: in and just presented as yeah, like you said, like

1173
01:07:49,040 --> 01:07:52,400
Speaker 1: all the characters think it's truth immediately, no one questions it.

1174
01:07:52,400 --> 01:07:54,960
Speaker 1: It's just so disturbing. I just it's almost as if

1175
01:07:55,480 --> 01:07:57,520
Speaker 1: like the writers just think this is true. Yeah, the

1176
01:07:57,880 --> 01:08:01,280
Speaker 1: movie is operating on the assumption and that the audience

1177
01:08:01,360 --> 01:08:07,120
Speaker 1: will have no trouble believing that, yeah, some random stalker

1178
01:08:07,320 --> 01:08:11,800
Speaker 1: guy unknown to the victim is just peeping on her,

1179
01:08:11,960 --> 01:08:15,960
Speaker 1: stalking her, and then will later kill her because he

1180
01:08:16,160 --> 01:08:20,799
Speaker 1: is non white, and it's just like would have been true.

1181
01:08:21,200 --> 01:08:24,559
Speaker 1: Like it's so I just I mean, I'm just speaking

1182
01:08:24,640 --> 01:08:29,040
Speaker 1: of like the races of ofies America. Like I'm just saying,

1183
01:08:29,040 --> 01:08:30,719
Speaker 1: like I don't even think that this would have been

1184
01:08:31,040 --> 01:08:37,280
Speaker 1: a particularly offensive take in right, right, And yeah, I

1185
01:08:37,320 --> 01:08:39,559
Speaker 1: think the movie is just operating on that. Well, of

1186
01:08:39,560 --> 01:08:42,519
Speaker 1: course the audience will be like, yeah, it was this right,

1187
01:08:42,600 --> 01:08:45,439
Speaker 1: like he did witness this, you know, this indigenous man

1188
01:08:45,560 --> 01:08:52,320
Speaker 1: murdering this woman, because that's how little audiences of the

1189
01:08:52,400 --> 01:08:58,400
Speaker 1: eighties thought of non white people. So that fucking sucks.

1190
01:08:59,000 --> 01:09:01,040
Speaker 1: I apologize for me. Just watch this movie. I just

1191
01:09:01,040 --> 01:09:04,680
Speaker 1: need to say that I had no idea what this

1192
01:09:04,800 --> 01:09:07,759
Speaker 1: was about. I just thought it would be a fun ride.

1193
01:09:08,240 --> 01:09:09,599
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, maybe it was worth it for

1194
01:09:09,640 --> 01:09:14,519
Speaker 1: that poor musical scene. But no, don't apologize. I mean

1195
01:09:14,680 --> 01:09:17,960
Speaker 1: we were going to cover it eventually, and we've gotten

1196
01:09:18,000 --> 01:09:19,880
Speaker 1: this request a bunch of times. It's always kind of

1197
01:09:19,880 --> 01:09:23,360
Speaker 1: fun when we cover a movie from our popular request

1198
01:09:23,439 --> 01:09:25,680
Speaker 1: list and then we immediately realize why people have been

1199
01:09:25,720 --> 01:09:27,840
Speaker 1: requesting it because they're like, oh, they're gonna hate this.

1200
01:09:28,160 --> 01:09:31,960
Speaker 1: You're like, oh, that's not nice. But yeah, we sure did.

1201
01:09:32,920 --> 01:09:36,679
Speaker 1: We sure did hate it. I mean, my curiosity is satisfied.

1202
01:09:36,680 --> 01:09:38,680
Speaker 1: I've been curious about this movie. I know what it

1203
01:09:38,720 --> 01:09:41,160
Speaker 1: is now, and I will forget about it, hopefully in

1204
01:09:41,160 --> 01:09:44,080
Speaker 1: a week, you know what I mean, Like, I, yeah, fortunately,

1205
01:09:44,160 --> 01:09:50,760
Speaker 1: I don't think this movie is going to stick with me. No, Yeah,

1206
01:09:50,920 --> 01:09:53,160
Speaker 1: does anyone have anything else they want to talk about.

1207
01:09:53,680 --> 01:09:56,040
Speaker 1: Um No, But I mean to your point, though, it

1208
01:09:56,080 --> 01:09:58,360
Speaker 1: is nice to watch a movie that was not bad

1209
01:09:58,439 --> 01:10:00,400
Speaker 1: and then immediately talk about how much how bad it

1210
01:10:00,439 --> 01:10:01,559
Speaker 1: is what other people? You know what I mean? Like,

1211
01:10:01,600 --> 01:10:03,760
Speaker 1: it's like a nice to like bash a movie and

1212
01:10:03,760 --> 01:10:07,240
Speaker 1: then move on. Other than it's sitting with you and

1213
01:10:07,320 --> 01:10:10,840
Speaker 1: lingering thank you for the podcast, is what I'm saying.

1214
01:10:11,000 --> 01:10:14,519
Speaker 1: I love hating movies. It's I love hating movies almost

1215
01:10:14,800 --> 01:10:18,479
Speaker 1: almost as much as I love loving movies. So I'm

1216
01:10:18,479 --> 01:10:23,000
Speaker 1: not mad about this. I love watching a terrible movie

1217
01:10:23,040 --> 01:10:27,640
Speaker 1: that I hated and absolutely dunking on it. So Melanie

1218
01:10:27,680 --> 01:10:31,439
Speaker 1: Griffith deserved so much better, truly bless her. Yeah, And

1219
01:10:32,120 --> 01:10:35,479
Speaker 1: so this movie, like it's is also I think, an

1220
01:10:35,680 --> 01:10:39,400
Speaker 1: entirely white movie on top of having a very racist

1221
01:10:39,400 --> 01:10:42,200
Speaker 1: plot point. I don't think I saw anyone who wasn't

1222
01:10:42,200 --> 01:10:45,679
Speaker 1: white in Los Angeles on the set. There's one black

1223
01:10:45,680 --> 01:10:48,120
Speaker 1: guy that drags him out at the coffin and he's like, oh,

1224
01:10:48,160 --> 01:10:50,120
Speaker 1: get rid of this person. And the black guy is

1225
01:10:50,160 --> 01:10:52,799
Speaker 1: just like obedient and follows the raising a crew member,

1226
01:10:52,800 --> 01:10:54,800
Speaker 1: which I thought was just like, this is the one

1227
01:10:54,840 --> 01:10:56,840
Speaker 1: person of color you put in here? And he's just like,

1228
01:10:57,960 --> 01:11:02,600
Speaker 1: I don't know, barely has lines and that he's forgotten about. Yeah,

1229
01:11:02,880 --> 01:11:05,920
Speaker 1: so I just yeah, like this just feels like all

1230
01:11:06,080 --> 01:11:11,000
Speaker 1: the bad tropes associated with this era of filmmaking plus more,

1231
01:11:11,720 --> 01:11:15,600
Speaker 1: which is wild. I really hated this movie and it

1232
01:11:15,640 --> 01:11:18,240
Speaker 1: doesn't pass the Buckteal test. There is a scene where

1233
01:11:18,439 --> 01:11:20,639
Speaker 1: two women and I think the other woman is named

1234
01:11:20,640 --> 01:11:24,000
Speaker 1: it's that scene where Jake is with Hollybody. They run

1235
01:11:24,000 --> 01:11:28,080
Speaker 1: into another actor that Jake has met and worked with before.

1236
01:11:28,640 --> 01:11:32,160
Speaker 1: They do talk to each other about like a role,

1237
01:11:32,439 --> 01:11:35,680
Speaker 1: but there's a misunderstanding because Holly thinks that the other

1238
01:11:35,720 --> 01:11:39,960
Speaker 1: woman is another porn star. This other actor is a

1239
01:11:40,040 --> 01:11:43,120
Speaker 1: non porn actor and thinks that Holly is a non

1240
01:11:43,160 --> 01:11:46,559
Speaker 1: porn actor and they but they never it never gets

1241
01:11:46,560 --> 01:11:48,880
Speaker 1: cleared up, but they do talk, and I would probably

1242
01:11:49,479 --> 01:11:52,800
Speaker 1: completely forgot about that. Oh no, does that mean it passes.

1243
01:11:53,120 --> 01:11:55,559
Speaker 1: I think it might pass because they talk about like

1244
01:11:55,760 --> 01:11:59,719
Speaker 1: movies and acting and roles and stuff. A man gets mentioned,

1245
01:11:59,840 --> 01:12:02,400
Speaker 1: and they're also like, I'm so mad that this passes.

1246
01:12:04,080 --> 01:12:06,920
Speaker 1: But it's also like a woman who's we only see

1247
01:12:06,920 --> 01:12:09,439
Speaker 1: in that one scene. Also, you could cut that scene

1248
01:12:09,439 --> 01:12:11,880
Speaker 1: from the movie and it wouldn't really, it wouldn't make

1249
01:12:11,920 --> 01:12:16,840
Speaker 1: a difference. You could cut that scene. Yeah, so it's

1250
01:12:17,240 --> 01:12:20,040
Speaker 1: I guess you could make the argument, but I still

1251
01:12:20,080 --> 01:12:25,920
Speaker 1: say it does also vibes. Sometimes you make a vibes exception.

1252
01:12:26,640 --> 01:12:29,360
Speaker 1: But also like, even if this does pass, it doesn't

1253
01:12:29,400 --> 01:12:31,720
Speaker 1: mean that the movie is like any better or a

1254
01:12:31,760 --> 01:12:35,040
Speaker 1: feminist masterpiece or anything like that. It just means that

1255
01:12:35,760 --> 01:12:39,080
Speaker 1: I don't want to give it anything. Just means that

1256
01:12:39,120 --> 01:12:42,479
Speaker 1: Brian to Palma gave one more woman three lines and

1257
01:12:42,800 --> 01:12:45,360
Speaker 1: called it a day. Yeah, it's like and I and

1258
01:12:45,360 --> 01:12:48,400
Speaker 1: and that's inclusion and let me pat myself on the

1259
01:12:48,400 --> 01:12:51,760
Speaker 1: back about it. Progressive hero Brian de Palma, she has

1260
01:12:51,880 --> 01:12:55,160
Speaker 1: darker hair. So diversity is a girl as a woman

1261
01:12:55,240 --> 01:12:59,760
Speaker 1: with darker hair. That's what that is. Um, So that's

1262
01:12:59,760 --> 01:13:03,800
Speaker 1: a that's the back, Dilton. How about our nipple scale

1263
01:13:03,680 --> 01:13:06,880
Speaker 1: where we rate the movie? You saw a lot of

1264
01:13:06,960 --> 01:13:08,960
Speaker 1: nipples in this movie too. We do see a lot

1265
01:13:09,000 --> 01:13:11,840
Speaker 1: of nipples, and yet I don't have any for it. No,

1266
01:13:12,280 --> 01:13:14,639
Speaker 1: because we write the movie on a scale of zero

1267
01:13:14,680 --> 01:13:18,479
Speaker 1: to five nipples based on how we think the movie

1268
01:13:18,520 --> 01:13:21,559
Speaker 1: does when looking at it through an intersectional feminist lens.

1269
01:13:22,000 --> 01:13:27,439
Speaker 1: And I I would give this movie zero nipples same

1270
01:13:27,640 --> 01:13:31,360
Speaker 1: because of everything we've talked about, it's just a movie

1271
01:13:31,360 --> 01:13:36,280
Speaker 1: that sort of revels in a woman being stalked and

1272
01:13:36,880 --> 01:13:44,680
Speaker 1: peeped on and murdered and again more male gaze cinematography

1273
01:13:44,720 --> 01:13:48,479
Speaker 1: than I've seen in any other movie. And that's like,

1274
01:13:48,920 --> 01:13:51,600
Speaker 1: that's a bar to clear. That is a bar to clear.

1275
01:13:51,720 --> 01:13:55,120
Speaker 1: It's all like leering shots, like the longest shot I've

1276
01:13:55,120 --> 01:13:57,840
Speaker 1: ever seen on a boob, like it just I just

1277
01:13:58,080 --> 01:14:02,200
Speaker 1: I've never had so much attention on on boob for

1278
01:14:02,280 --> 01:14:04,879
Speaker 1: so long. And it is like a very like headless

1279
01:14:04,880 --> 01:14:06,960
Speaker 1: woman of Hollywood thing where even though we see that

1280
01:14:07,000 --> 01:14:11,720
Speaker 1: woman's face briefly, it does like tilt down to her

1281
01:14:11,800 --> 01:14:15,400
Speaker 1: chest and lingers there for a very long time. And

1282
01:14:15,439 --> 01:14:17,479
Speaker 1: then the whole rest of the movie is just a

1283
01:14:17,520 --> 01:14:21,559
Speaker 1: woman being leered at through a telescope or a woman

1284
01:14:21,600 --> 01:14:25,559
Speaker 1: being stalked, or a woman being lied to. And that's

1285
01:14:25,680 --> 01:14:28,320
Speaker 1: the premise of the movie. And it's because it's like

1286
01:14:28,880 --> 01:14:31,680
Speaker 1: we have like and this is not like an indictment

1287
01:14:31,720 --> 01:14:35,480
Speaker 1: against movies with erotic themes. There's plenty of like erotic

1288
01:14:35,560 --> 01:14:38,360
Speaker 1: movies that fucking rule. It's just like the way it's

1289
01:14:38,560 --> 01:14:40,960
Speaker 1: bound framed and who's looking at it? Yeah, we just

1290
01:14:41,000 --> 01:14:43,439
Speaker 1: covered bound that that's an erotic movie. The fucking rules.

1291
01:14:44,160 --> 01:14:48,320
Speaker 1: That movie's really fun, but it's like, yeah, it's all

1292
01:14:48,360 --> 01:14:51,160
Speaker 1: about like who is looking what are they looking at?

1293
01:14:51,320 --> 01:14:54,479
Speaker 1: And is their consent implied? And in this movie is

1294
01:14:54,520 --> 01:14:56,599
Speaker 1: like no, no, no, no, no, all the way across

1295
01:14:56,600 --> 01:15:00,200
Speaker 1: the board. So that sucks and it's racist and Ura

1296
01:15:00,280 --> 01:15:03,760
Speaker 1: Nipples and I hated it. Zero nipples really had an

1297
01:15:03,840 --> 01:15:06,120
Speaker 1: unfortunate time. I want to give it a half nipple

1298
01:15:06,200 --> 01:15:09,840
Speaker 1: only for Melanie Griffith and like her. I did like

1299
01:15:09,920 --> 01:15:13,960
Speaker 1: her character. Yeah, it wasn't totally terrible, but that she's

1300
01:15:14,000 --> 01:15:16,080
Speaker 1: the only reason I would even consider giving this movie

1301
01:15:16,120 --> 01:15:19,320
Speaker 1: any praise. It's bad. It is a bad movie. Yeah.

1302
01:15:19,479 --> 01:15:22,920
Speaker 1: And it's so long. It felt it so long. It's

1303
01:15:23,000 --> 01:15:25,360
Speaker 1: very and it feels longer than it is because so

1304
01:15:25,439 --> 01:15:29,200
Speaker 1: much of it is just like boring shots of a

1305
01:15:29,240 --> 01:15:33,519
Speaker 1: woman being like people walking and one person following another

1306
01:15:33,760 --> 01:15:38,320
Speaker 1: person while they're both walking, and it's like snooze. The

1307
01:15:38,360 --> 01:15:41,920
Speaker 1: last thing I'll say is that uh diploma did want

1308
01:15:42,280 --> 01:15:46,360
Speaker 1: a porn actress to play the part of Holly originally,

1309
01:15:47,200 --> 01:15:50,599
Speaker 1: which I think is like actually pretty interesting, but then

1310
01:15:51,160 --> 01:15:56,000
Speaker 1: the producers Slash Studio were like, absolutely not, we won't

1311
01:15:56,040 --> 01:15:59,280
Speaker 1: release the movie, which is just like another indication of

1312
01:15:59,479 --> 01:16:03,800
Speaker 1: the added towards porn actors at this time. Um, but

1313
01:16:03,960 --> 01:16:06,559
Speaker 1: he did have someone in mind, and like, I guess

1314
01:16:06,560 --> 01:16:08,720
Speaker 1: like I had the idea for this movie when he

1315
01:16:08,800 --> 01:16:14,160
Speaker 1: was interviewing Janice Dickinson's body double from UM, what's that

1316
01:16:14,439 --> 01:16:17,360
Speaker 1: movie that we were talking about that's really really transphobic

1317
01:16:17,400 --> 01:16:21,400
Speaker 1: and dressed to kill? Dressed to kill? Um, But yeah,

1318
01:16:21,439 --> 01:16:24,400
Speaker 1: he did want to cast a porn actor, but then

1319
01:16:24,560 --> 01:16:29,599
Speaker 1: um Mr Hollywood said no, No. I'm honestly surprised that

1320
01:16:30,080 --> 01:16:34,920
Speaker 1: in Body Double, Melanie Griffith's character wasn't written to also

1321
01:16:35,040 --> 01:16:38,720
Speaker 1: be in on this like murderous scheme, which is something

1322
01:16:38,720 --> 01:16:41,400
Speaker 1: that would have like further demonized, you know, sex work

1323
01:16:41,479 --> 01:16:44,680
Speaker 1: and porn work and stuff. And I'm I'm surprised that

1324
01:16:44,840 --> 01:16:49,519
Speaker 1: didn't happen, which is just indicative of how movies like this,

1325
01:16:49,880 --> 01:16:55,520
Speaker 1: especially from this era, viewed sex work and pornography. And

1326
01:16:55,640 --> 01:16:58,200
Speaker 1: then I think it is like a little complicated by

1327
01:16:58,240 --> 01:17:01,160
Speaker 1: the fact that because Jake is so awful, but the

1328
01:17:01,200 --> 01:17:03,720
Speaker 1: movie doesn't think Jake is awful, and Jake ends up

1329
01:17:03,760 --> 01:17:06,080
Speaker 1: becoming a porn actor. So I feel like the movie

1330
01:17:06,240 --> 01:17:10,160
Speaker 1: isn't anti porn really like but but that's like a

1331
01:17:10,400 --> 01:17:13,400
Speaker 1: fucking weird math problem that I don't really want to do.

1332
01:17:14,360 --> 01:17:17,439
Speaker 1: Absolute last thing because I thought this was funny. I

1333
01:17:17,479 --> 01:17:20,280
Speaker 1: was like, was this movie nominated for any awards? And

1334
01:17:20,320 --> 01:17:23,280
Speaker 1: I feel like there was some justice here because Di

1335
01:17:23,320 --> 01:17:28,440
Speaker 1: Palma was nominated for the Golden Raspberry Award for Worst Director,

1336
01:17:28,560 --> 01:17:33,400
Speaker 1: Oh my god for this movie. Yes, and Melanie Griffith

1337
01:17:33,600 --> 01:17:36,920
Speaker 1: was nominated for a Golden Globe okay for playing Hollie.

1338
01:17:36,960 --> 01:17:39,519
Speaker 1: That is justice. Yeah, so I was like, Okay, this

1339
01:17:39,560 --> 01:17:42,680
Speaker 1: movie has like a seventy six on Rotten Tomatoes, but

1340
01:17:42,720 --> 01:17:45,200
Speaker 1: it also really was a flop at the box office,

1341
01:17:45,400 --> 01:17:48,960
Speaker 1: so that makes me feel good. Yeah, I don't think

1342
01:17:48,960 --> 01:17:50,720
Speaker 1: it's I think it is like a hot take to

1343
01:17:50,800 --> 01:17:54,400
Speaker 1: like this movie then and now, um, and we we

1344
01:17:54,479 --> 01:17:56,240
Speaker 1: don't have a hot take, and I think we have

1345
01:17:56,280 --> 01:17:58,840
Speaker 1: the general take, which is that, um, I don't want

1346
01:17:58,880 --> 01:18:02,720
Speaker 1: to ever think about it again. Chervine, thank you so

1347
01:18:02,840 --> 01:18:07,080
Speaker 1: much for coming back and breaking because this movie. Oh

1348
01:18:07,160 --> 01:18:11,439
Speaker 1: you're so welcome, Jamie and Caitlin. This was fun though.

1349
01:18:11,479 --> 01:18:15,360
Speaker 1: Thanks for thanks for having me back. I'll come back anytime.

1350
01:18:15,640 --> 01:18:19,200
Speaker 1: Maybe I won't choose the movie, but no, this was good.

1351
01:18:19,280 --> 01:18:21,200
Speaker 1: I'm glad that we got to vent about it because

1352
01:18:21,200 --> 01:18:23,200
Speaker 1: I had so many I had watched it last night

1353
01:18:23,240 --> 01:18:25,200
Speaker 1: and I was just like having so many thoughts and

1354
01:18:25,200 --> 01:18:28,599
Speaker 1: I was like, what was that? What did I just see? It? Is?

1355
01:18:28,720 --> 01:18:32,640
Speaker 1: It is very cathartic to air your grievances about a

1356
01:18:32,760 --> 01:18:36,040
Speaker 1: movie that you hate. It really was, and I feel

1357
01:18:36,080 --> 01:18:38,559
Speaker 1: like now we can forget about Brian to Palmer for

1358
01:18:38,600 --> 01:18:43,400
Speaker 1: another two years exactly, and that's always a blessing. Where

1359
01:18:43,400 --> 01:18:47,920
Speaker 1: can people follow you online and check out your stuff

1360
01:18:47,960 --> 01:18:52,720
Speaker 1: and plug away? I'm on social media Twitter and Instagram.

1361
01:18:52,800 --> 01:18:56,479
Speaker 1: My Twitter is shiro Hero six six six in my

1362
01:18:56,560 --> 01:19:00,360
Speaker 1: Instagram is just Shiro Hero. I'm making a very big

1363
01:19:00,400 --> 01:19:03,360
Speaker 1: effort and I'm doing really well and not being online

1364
01:19:03,439 --> 01:19:06,000
Speaker 1: very much, so I'm really looming a lot of things.

1365
01:19:06,720 --> 01:19:08,880
Speaker 1: But I occasionally post up here and there if I'm

1366
01:19:09,280 --> 01:19:14,760
Speaker 1: spiraling and depressed. So come along join the ride. You

1367
01:19:14,800 --> 01:19:18,720
Speaker 1: can follow us on those places as well, Instagram and

1368
01:19:18,720 --> 01:19:23,960
Speaker 1: Twitter at Bechtel Cast. You can subscribe to our Patreon

1369
01:19:24,080 --> 01:19:28,400
Speaker 1: a k a. Matreon where we do to bonus episodes

1370
01:19:28,439 --> 01:19:32,479
Speaker 1: every single month, plus access to our our back catalog

1371
01:19:32,520 --> 01:19:36,200
Speaker 1: of one hundred over one hundred episodes. This month, it's

1372
01:19:36,280 --> 01:19:39,000
Speaker 1: Minions March Baby, and you know what that means. We're

1373
01:19:39,000 --> 01:19:44,000
Speaker 1: covering Despicable Me and the Forty year Old Virgin, So

1374
01:19:44,080 --> 01:19:48,280
Speaker 1: it's actually, um there's two options. You can call it

1375
01:19:48,280 --> 01:19:52,240
Speaker 1: Medians March, or you can call it Gruella Steville. Or

1376
01:19:52,320 --> 01:19:56,080
Speaker 1: you can call it Corrella Steville because it's Steve Correll

1377
01:19:56,120 --> 01:20:01,240
Speaker 1: playing um fucked up people. So that so if that

1378
01:20:01,280 --> 01:20:04,719
Speaker 1: doesn't sell you on it, I don't know what will will.

1379
01:20:05,400 --> 01:20:08,160
Speaker 1: You can also get our verch at t public dot

1380
01:20:08,240 --> 01:20:14,000
Speaker 1: com slash the Bechtel Cast, and if you guys don't mind,

1381
01:20:14,040 --> 01:20:16,320
Speaker 1: I'm going to actually have my body double switch in

1382
01:20:16,400 --> 01:20:20,280
Speaker 1: for the next episode. Uh. They sound exactly like me,

1383
01:20:21,120 --> 01:20:23,240
Speaker 1: but but they're not me. So it's like a voice

1384
01:20:23,280 --> 01:20:26,599
Speaker 1: double too. It's my voice double. Yeah yeah yeah cool

1385
01:20:26,680 --> 01:20:30,320
Speaker 1: cool yeah, Well I look by