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Speaker 4: Hey everyone, Captain Ron and each week on Beyond Contact,
Speaker 4: we'll explore the latest news in ufology, discuss some of
Speaker 4: the classic cases, and bring you the latest information from
Speaker 4: the newest cases as we talk with the top experts.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Beyond Contact. I am Captain Ron, and
Speaker 1: today I'll be speaking again with Kelly Chase for part
Speaker 1: two of our interview. Kelly's a branding and marketing expert
Speaker 1: and also the host and creator of the very successful
Speaker 1: UFO rabbit Hole podcast. We were talking with her about disclosure.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about this UAP Act real fast here. Remember
Speaker 1: Schumer wrote this bill in twenty twenty three. Of course,
Speaker 1: it eventually got gutted from sixty four pages down to
Speaker 1: I believe twenty four and now they're making some efforts
Speaker 1: to try to reinstate part of it or pass pieces
Speaker 1: in other bills. They're going to try to get back
Speaker 1: some of these witness protections and eminent domain and some
Speaker 1: of these other pieces of the bill. But I can't
Speaker 1: help but feel Kelly, let me s get your opinion
Speaker 1: on this. Even if we got everything we needed in
Speaker 1: this bill when it's its original form really was thorough,
Speaker 1: that this would not be the watershed moment we hope
Speaker 1: it is. If any of this is real and the
Speaker 1: government has this technology, and they have bodies and craft
Speaker 1: and all of these things that people speculate that they do,
Speaker 1: I would think that people controlling that knowledge would be
Speaker 1: able to further bury it somewhere deep somewhere. They'd be
Speaker 1: able to skirt these provisions some way. And it doesn't
Speaker 1: matter what bills or laws we passed they're going to
Speaker 1: bury it, right, what do you think?
Speaker 5: No, I completely agree. I mean, starting with the fact
Speaker 5: that this legislation, you know, by Chuck Shoomer's own admission,
Speaker 5: was modeled on the legislation that was written to give
Speaker 5: us transparency around the you know, JFK assassination. And we're
Speaker 5: not exactly like swimming in JFK transparency around here, you know,
Speaker 5: like we still every president continues to push back when
Speaker 5: that when that inform is going to be released to
Speaker 5: the public, And that same mechanism for the president to
Speaker 5: make that decision was in that bill. And there were
Speaker 5: a lot of other things as well. You know, I
Speaker 5: think that what people don't recognize and that I only
Speaker 5: recently learned, and this is a statistic that blows my mind.
Speaker 5: I don't know what the current numbers are, but there
Speaker 5: is a study that was done in two thousand and
Speaker 5: four that basically showed that the government in two thousand
Speaker 5: and four, the government, as we think about it, like
Speaker 5: in your as you learn in like fifth grade, is
Speaker 5: one point eight million people. However, there's this like black
Speaker 5: part of the government that's made up of contractors and
Speaker 5: you know, people in classified jobs, people with you know
Speaker 5: clearances and that sort of thing that aren't an official
Speaker 5: part of our government, and that is four million people.
Speaker 5: And I think that what we don't realize that you.
Speaker 1: Just said, yes, double of what we know is in the.
Speaker 5: Government exactly, and that was in two thousand and four.
Speaker 5: I can only imagine that it's gotten worse sensaled. I
Speaker 5: don't have those numbers for sure, and I think that
Speaker 5: that's a really profound thing to recognize. I mean, honestly,
Speaker 5: if we take David Grush at his word, if what
Speaker 5: he is saying is like materially true, even mostly true,
Speaker 5: what he's saying is that there is a rogue faction
Speaker 5: buried within that kind of black part of our government
Speaker 5: that's sort of a government but not really our government,
Speaker 5: that has possession of paradigm shattering technology, and that they
Speaker 5: are accountable to no one. And so I don't think
Speaker 5: that as much as I think it's important that we
Speaker 5: try through these legislative measures to get more transparency, like
Speaker 5: we have to start somewhere, I think it's naive to
Speaker 5: think that, like they're going to pass a law and
Speaker 5: those people who've been guarding this secret for decades and
Speaker 5: decades and who are accountable to no one and who
Speaker 5: have all of these vast resources, are suddenly going to
Speaker 5: be like, oh, you got.
Speaker 1: Us, Yeah, I see, I see the penalty, So we're
Speaker 1: going to do it. See. I kind of fear that
Speaker 1: this will have the opposite effect. They'll pass this bill,
Speaker 1: they'll get this thing, and then the mainstream world's going
Speaker 1: to go, well, we have it, and they have haven't
Speaker 1: turned everything over, so therefore there's nothing to this, and
Speaker 1: it's actually going to bite us in the ass. That's
Speaker 1: what I fear is going to happen here, because I know,
Speaker 1: I know Steve Bassett and Danny Sheahan and God blessed
Speaker 1: these guys for fighting on the front lines. They think
Speaker 1: that this could really do some good. And I think
Speaker 1: protecting witnesses is the number one thing, and that probably
Speaker 1: would do some good. I just don't think we're going
Speaker 1: to get to the real bottom, like you were mentioning
Speaker 1: of these black projects. Why would those guys give that up?
Speaker 1: If it's this, if it's as big as we think
Speaker 1: it could be, They're not going to They're going to
Speaker 1: figure out a way that they operate so far outside
Speaker 1: of this that it doesn't matter to them what little
Speaker 1: laws or rules you have. Okay, let's move on here
Speaker 1: to you know we have. We don't have an idea
Speaker 1: of what we're dealing with here. I mean, it's incredible
Speaker 1: how we really just don't know. We make all these
Speaker 1: associations based on first hand accounts and books and movies
Speaker 1: and whatnot, but we really don't know. People that have
Speaker 1: had experiences don't know. You brought up a fascinating interesting
Speaker 1: point the other day where Whitley streamer of all people,
Speaker 1: Whitley streamber at the Sole conference pointed out that we
Speaker 1: really don't have any evidence that UFOs have anything to
Speaker 1: do with the abduction phenomenon. They may in fact be unrelated.
Speaker 1: Isn't that fascinating?
Speaker 5: No, I think that's incredibly fascinating, and I think that
Speaker 5: it also shows kind of the level of skepticism and
Speaker 5: humility that we need to bring to this topic. It's
Speaker 5: something that I really admire about Whitley is that I
Speaker 5: think that a lot of people have this conception of
Speaker 5: Whitley is that he's just like this overly credulous guy
Speaker 5: who believes every crazy story. And granted, Whitley has more
Speaker 5: crazy stories than just about anybody you will ever ever meet.
Speaker 5: But the fact that he's been able to have this
Speaker 5: kind of like incredible life in these decades long interactions
Speaker 5: with whatever this thing is and maintain that level of objectivity. Like,
Speaker 5: that's a reason that I really admire Whitley and kind
Speaker 5: of see him as a as a mentor, because I
Speaker 5: think that that kind of radical skepticism and that unwillingness
Speaker 5: to connect a dot without having enough objective evidence to
Speaker 5: do so is exactly what we need to kind of
Speaker 5: unravel this thing.
Speaker 1: I agree one hundred percent. And I also like to
Speaker 1: bring out to people about Whitley. You know, he got
Speaker 1: a lot of criticism when Communion came out, the number
Speaker 1: one criticism being well, he's a science fiction writer. Of course,
Speaker 1: he wrote this book, okay, in whatever it was eighty
Speaker 1: seven in the eighties when that criticism came out. That's
Speaker 1: a fair criticism. Here we are, what forty some odd
Speaker 1: years later, he is as hell bent into this topic
Speaker 1: as he ever was, and I think that sort of
Speaker 1: justifies his position, and it really kind of strengthens the
Speaker 1: case of his claims. This seems to even tie in
Speaker 1: with possibly near death experiences and other paranormal anomalies. There
Speaker 1: seems to be a lot of overlap, and I can't
Speaker 1: help but feel that all of this might somehow be related.
Speaker 1: It's just stuff we don't understand yet.
Speaker 5: What do you think, No, I completely agree. I think
Speaker 5: think that in a lot of ways, UFO, like that
Speaker 5: word is kind of like a stand in for this
Speaker 5: much larger phenomenon that's going on, and that if you
Speaker 5: look at you know, once again, this is why you
Speaker 5: have to go back. I think, you know, people don't
Speaker 5: go back enough and like read their history and understand,
Speaker 5: you know, the history of this topic and and of
Speaker 5: the people who are involved in this topic. If you
Speaker 5: look at some of the people who are kind of
Speaker 5: at the root of what we see as the modern
Speaker 5: you know, disclosure movement, you know, we if we trace
Speaker 5: the lineage back from Arrow to the UAP Task Force
Speaker 5: to you know, a tip ASAP and then you know,
Speaker 5: back to like to NIDS and to Bob Bigelow, and
Speaker 5: you know, you go all the way back, like these
Speaker 5: people who have been doing this for decades, and all
Speaker 5: of them are fascinated not so much with UFOs as
Speaker 5: they are with near death experiences di phenomena. You know,
Speaker 5: you look at all of these people who were involved,
Speaker 5: you know, like how put Off and you know Russell
Speaker 5: targ and you know all of these people who were
Speaker 5: involved in you know, Stargate and these like early remote
Speaker 5: viewing programs and all of that stuff within the government.
Speaker 5: When you see that, what you start to understand is
Speaker 5: that like these things have always been tied up. It's
Speaker 5: not just about like lights that we see in the sky.
Speaker 5: This seems to also be tied profoundly in some way
Speaker 5: to consciousness, to human potential and like what we're actually
Speaker 5: capable of as human beings. And that's really complex, and
Speaker 5: it takes like a lot of reading and parsing to
Speaker 5: get to a point where you can, like it's hard
Speaker 5: to just explain to somebody on the street like how
Speaker 5: those things are related, but it's clear that they are
Speaker 5: deeply related. And so I think that, you know, people
Speaker 5: say like, ah, I just want to you know, I
Speaker 5: don't want to deal with any of that consciousness stuff
Speaker 5: that's all WU. And it's like, well, I don't think
Speaker 5: you can throw that out though. I think that if
Speaker 5: you throw out the what people call WU, you're no
Speaker 5: longer really talking about the UFO phenomenon. You're talking about
Speaker 5: this kind of like construction in your head of what
Speaker 5: you think the UFO phenomenon is. We can't deny the
Speaker 5: hard parts just because we don't want to deal with
Speaker 5: the data.
Speaker 1: I agree one hundred percent, and I am on that
Speaker 1: list of people that are equally fascinated by the near
Speaker 1: death experience these different kind of anomalies. I think I'm
Speaker 1: just curious as to the unknown. I think that's the
Speaker 1: attraction here. When we come back, we're going to be
Speaker 1: talking more with Kelly Chase here about UFOs and consciousness
Speaker 1: because that ties in as well as she just mentioned.
Speaker 1: You are listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and
Speaker 1: Coast to Coast AM Paranormal podcast Network. Okay, we are
Speaker 1: back on Beyond Contact. I'm Captain Ron and we're talking
Speaker 1: to Kelly Chase. Kelly, we've talked a lot about UFOs,
Speaker 1: and it's hard to not definitively what these UFOs are.
Speaker 1: Most of the time, it's a light in the sky,
Speaker 1: which could be a myriad of things, including a UFO.
Speaker 1: Being open minded works both ways. You aren't open minded
Speaker 1: because you think I'm open to these objects being UFOs,
Speaker 1: therefore I'm open minded. That's that's not accurate. Well, you
Speaker 1: actually have to be open to them being something else too.
Speaker 1: That's what open minded is. I get frustrated when people
Speaker 1: immediately jump to UFO. I do think that some of
Speaker 1: these things could be UFOs. I just don't think that
Speaker 1: should be the first option. I think it should be
Speaker 1: the last option. Let's look at every other possible explanation.
Speaker 1: Then maybe it's one of those very rare instances where
Speaker 1: we have a truly unknown What do you think?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I absolutely agree. I you know, the vast majority
Speaker 5: of sightings are probably something prosaic, or at the very least,
Speaker 5: they're you know, some sort of technology that we're not
Speaker 5: aware of. You know, we have lots of stuff in
Speaker 5: the sky that people didn't like grow up seeing, like
Speaker 5: you know, Starlink and the International Space Station and you know,
Speaker 5: all kinds of satellites and that sort of thing, and
Speaker 5: you know, now there's suddenly drones, and you know, there's
Speaker 5: all kinds of stuff up there that like we didn't
Speaker 5: most of us didn't grow up seeing in the sky.
Speaker 5: And so I think a lot of it is a
Speaker 5: case of misidentification, and so you really have to be,
Speaker 5: you know, careful about assigning that kind of like UFO
Speaker 5: label to just anything that you're like, I don't know
Speaker 5: what that is. I mean, yes, it is unidentified and
Speaker 5: it's flying, But to claim that it's truly anomaloust I
Speaker 5: think that it has to to do something anomalous, and
Speaker 5: you also have to have very meticulously gone through the
Speaker 5: extensive list of all the other things that it could
Speaker 5: be and definitively say like, it wasn't that and so.
Speaker 5: And I think that that's what most people aren't aren't
Speaker 5: really doing that work because it's hard to do. It
Speaker 5: takes a lot of work. You know, there's a lot
Speaker 5: of move on investigators who are like really skilled it
Speaker 5: kind of running through all of those potentialities and you know,
Speaker 5: ruling things out. But for most of us, we don't
Speaker 5: have that time. And so I think that we just
Speaker 5: need to like remain skeptical and like you said, stay
Speaker 5: open to it, not as open to it not being
Speaker 5: a UFO as we are to it being a UFO.
Speaker 1: It's too easy to default to, oh it's a UFO,
Speaker 1: it's an alien. Well that yeah, that's easy. It's hard
Speaker 1: to know what to trust on video these days. You know,
Speaker 1: everyone has a camera in their pocket, which is great,
Speaker 1: but Also everyone has access to Photoshop, and now we
Speaker 1: have these AI systems and it has ability to create
Speaker 1: video images. So it's becoming harder and harder to discern
Speaker 1: what's a credible sighting and what's not right.
Speaker 5: Oh absolutely, I mean I make a certain contingent of
Speaker 5: people actually very mad. This is like the thing I've
Speaker 5: gotten the most angry emails about, you know, whenever I
Speaker 5: say this, But it's but I believe it's true, which
Speaker 5: is that I think that videos are terrible evidence. Just
Speaker 5: in general, there's no real way in twenty twenty four
Speaker 5: to prove that any particular video is real or not
Speaker 5: unless you can prove specifically that like fraud has taken
Speaker 5: place where you can identify this thing. Even then, it's
Speaker 5: it's often speculation about, you know, if this could be faked, right,
Speaker 5: But we have AI video, we have deep fakes, we
Speaker 5: have CGI, and that is only the proliferation of these
Speaker 5: things that can fool us are only growing. And so
Speaker 5: I don't think that videos. I just don't think videos
Speaker 5: are great are great evidence. I don't think they ever
Speaker 5: have been. And you know, you can see that there's
Speaker 5: there are people online right now who are still fighting
Speaker 5: with like Mick West, and you know these other skeptics
Speaker 5: about you know, the gimbal video and the those those
Speaker 5: Navy videos that came out in twenty seventeen.
Speaker 1: Right, we know those are real, but we just don't
Speaker 1: know exactly what's on that video.
Speaker 5: Right, And both sides have declared victory, right, Like, both
Speaker 5: sides have said we've definitely debunked it or we've definitely
Speaker 5: you know, proven it's true. And I think that both
Speaker 5: of both sides are being disingenuous.
Speaker 1: One that's back to our earlier conversation where people are
Speaker 1: dug in their candidate can do anything they want. Because
Speaker 1: this is my position, it's it's a shame that we
Speaker 1: can't more be truly open minded and kind of you know,
Speaker 1: accept these things. I do like it when these stories
Speaker 1: have multiple witnesses, and those multiple witnesses also have a
Speaker 1: photo or video evidence that at least supports their position.
Speaker 1: I think you need all of that. The more you have, obviously,
Speaker 1: the stronger it is.
Speaker 5: To me, absolutely absolutely, if you can, the more corroborating
Speaker 5: evidence that we have, the better. And I think videos
Speaker 5: can be really interesting and like I love looking at them,
Speaker 5: but unless you have kind of an accumulation of other
Speaker 5: data that corroborates what's being seen in the video. I
Speaker 5: think it's really difficult to say exactly. And even when
Speaker 5: you have that, you can say like, Okay, there was
Speaker 5: something there, but then we're no closer to figuring out
Speaker 5: what that thing was exactly. All we can really say
Speaker 5: is that it's anomalous, that's and.
Speaker 1: And yeah, that's the best we can do. That's the truth. Okay,
Speaker 1: So what about this AI we're talking about. To me,
Speaker 1: if there was another civilization that was advanced out there
Speaker 1: in the world, it would only make sense that they
Speaker 1: would send AI out into the universe to explore. We
Speaker 1: didn't even have this term ten twenty years ago, so
Speaker 1: this is sort of new to us. You know, what
Speaker 1: are we That's what we're going to do. We're going
Speaker 1: to send space probes that have artificial intelligence on them.
Speaker 1: Why would you send a biologic being? They need to eat,
Speaker 1: they need to sleep, they get sick, they die, there's
Speaker 1: all these issues. But AI, on the other hand, can
Speaker 1: continuously learn, can work twenty four hours a day, doesn't
Speaker 1: deal with sickness or microbes or anything like that. So
Speaker 1: I think when people see some of these lights or
Speaker 1: craft in the sky making these ninety degree turns, and
Speaker 1: they say, well, that can't be real because a human's
Speaker 1: brain couldn't handle the g fos blah blah blah blah. Well,
Speaker 1: I don't think there's a biological being on there. Necessarily,
Speaker 1: it would just be an AI machine. That's what makes
Speaker 1: the most sense to me. Now, that could be a
Speaker 1: military craft, it could be something from another government that
Speaker 1: we don't know, but even if it is alien, it's
Speaker 1: more likely to be AI in my opinion, What do
Speaker 1: you think?
Speaker 5: No, I completely agree, and I think those are all
Speaker 5: all fantastic points. I also think that that there's the
Speaker 5: problem of communication. You know, we think think about the
Speaker 5: fact that, like, dogs are fairly smart, right, and they
Speaker 5: live in our homes. They've been our little buddies for
Speaker 5: thousands of years, and yet there's a real limitation on
Speaker 5: how much we're even able to communicate with them, right
Speaker 5: and But like, like, you can have a certain level
Speaker 5: of understanding with your dog, but like, explain a credit
Speaker 5: score to your dog, right and so and so, if
Speaker 5: there were these more advanced beings, or more technologically advanced
Speaker 5: beings who wanted to come here or wanted to communicate
Speaker 5: with us in some way. I think that we really
Speaker 5: underestimate the extent to which that might be difficult, because
Speaker 5: we have different sensory apparatusm we have different culture, and
Speaker 5: we have different context for everything, and so I think
Speaker 5: that that might be really difficult. But like AI thinks
Speaker 5: really quickly, it thinks, you know, thousands and thousands of
Speaker 5: times faster than a biological entity, those algorithms can be
Speaker 5: more plastic and can more flexible than you know, at
Speaker 5: least our own biological intelligence as we know it can be.
Speaker 5: And so I think that you know, beyond all the
Speaker 5: excellent reasons you know you put out there, I also
Speaker 5: think that you know, we see how quickly just in
Speaker 5: the last few years, AI, even the kind of lower
Speaker 5: level AI that we've developed right now, like how quickly
Speaker 5: it's evolving, and how quickly it can learn, and how
Speaker 5: quickly it learned to talk to us like it was
Speaker 5: us that you would almost maybe need something like that
Speaker 5: if you were going to try to communicate with a
Speaker 5: species that was that was fundamentally different than you.
Speaker 1: AI is another example of how this new technology comes
Speaker 1: along and suddenly opens up all of these doors for us,
Speaker 1: as did the telescope, and as we got more telescopes,
Speaker 1: we got more knowledge. I love to point to the
Speaker 1: fact that I forget the year always, but it's in
Speaker 1: like the twenties when we had the Wilson Observatory. Until
Speaker 1: we had that telescope, the top mainstream scientists in the
Speaker 1: world thought that our galaxy was in fact the entirety
Speaker 1: of the universe. And it was only when we developed
Speaker 1: a telescope to see further that we realize that this
Speaker 1: isn't the universe. This is a tiny little galaxy which
Speaker 1: is our Milky Way Galaxy, and we're part of many
Speaker 1: galaxies that make up the universe. And that wasn't ten
Speaker 1: thousand years ago, that was right around one hundred years ago.
Speaker 1: So you can imagine, like, look at this AI technology
Speaker 1: that we're just in the beginning stages of where's that
Speaker 1: going to be in five years, ten years, god knows,
Speaker 1: one hundred years, my god. So it's these kind of
Speaker 1: advancements that I think open up this to a much
Speaker 1: larger understanding for us. When we return, we're going to
Speaker 1: be talking more with Kelly Chase. You're listening to Beyond
Speaker 1: Contact right here on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast
Speaker 1: am Paranormal podcast Network. We are back on Beyond Contact.
Speaker 1: I'm talking to Kelly Chase, and Kelly we spoke about
Speaker 1: this whole thing, how these different phenomenon could tie into
Speaker 1: the afterlife and other aspects of reality that we just
Speaker 1: don't quite understand yet. I hear a lot of overlap
Speaker 1: in the first person accounts of these different phenomenon, like
Speaker 1: we mentioned earlier, and it may be so much larger
Speaker 1: than just beings getting on a craft and flying here.
Speaker 1: There's this whole consciousness aspect of this phenomenon that is
Speaker 1: really fascinating. And I love these hard science guys, like
Speaker 1: for example, Max Plank had that quote and it says,
Speaker 1: I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative
Speaker 1: from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we
Speaker 1: talk about, everything that we regard as ex existing postulates consciousness,
Speaker 1: and so it becomes even more of a tangled web.
Speaker 5: Right absolutely. I mean, I think that we are on
Speaker 5: the verge of discovering not just non human intelligence and AI,
Speaker 5: and I think that there's a lot happening all at once.
Speaker 5: We're really at this kind of quantum leap in terms
Speaker 5: of our evolution as humans. And I think that, you know,
Speaker 5: it's something that in some ways started with the Enlightenment,
Speaker 5: where you know, suddenly we were we kind of discovered
Speaker 5: what we would consider modern science, and you know, we
Speaker 5: kind of put away all of these things that we
Speaker 5: couldn't measure directly. We said, you know what, if you
Speaker 5: can't measure it directly, then you can't really say anything
Speaker 5: about it. And then over time that kind of shifted
Speaker 5: from if you can't measure it, you can't say anything
Speaker 5: about it too. If you can't measure it, then it
Speaker 5: doesn't exist, right, And that's sort of the place that
Speaker 5: we've been for the past, you know, one hundred or
Speaker 5: so years, because that's the way we kind of do
Speaker 5: things right, Like we make a change and then we
Speaker 5: go too far, and then we over and then we
Speaker 5: come back. And I think the pendulum is swinging back
Speaker 5: the other way, where we're saying, clearly there are things
Speaker 5: that we can't measure directly that do have some sort
Speaker 5: of an actual existence, and we can't just kind of
Speaker 5: like dismiss those things because it turns out that they
Speaker 5: might have something to them. And I think that we're
Speaker 5: just at a place where we're starting to recognize and
Speaker 5: that as we do that that our concept of you know,
Speaker 5: like you were talking about before with the telescope and
Speaker 5: how it changed our perception of what the universe was.
Speaker 5: I think that we're at a place where we're starting
Speaker 5: to understand more about our place and the cosmos and
Speaker 5: what we are and what we're capable of, and that
Speaker 5: probably one hundred years from now even people are going
Speaker 5: to look back at what we thought now and we
Speaker 5: will have a completely different perspective on all of that.
Speaker 5: It can be really disorienting and it can be stressful,
Speaker 5: but it's also like a really really cool time to
Speaker 5: be alive because there aren't these like huge inflection points
Speaker 5: that happen very often.
Speaker 1: Agreed. Wasn't there a quote like in I think the
Speaker 1: late eighteen hundreds where they said that we now know everything.
Speaker 1: It's just a matter of weighing and out. Isn't there?
Speaker 1: What's that quote? Isn't this? Yeah?
Speaker 5: Alfred Lord Tennyson said, like, there's nothing left to discover
Speaker 5: in science, only greater and greater measurement.
Speaker 1: I guess exactly.
Speaker 5: We discovered quantum physics, like you know, a decade later,
Speaker 5: and he looked silly, so right.
Speaker 1: I think, And that's how I feel a lot of
Speaker 1: people that disregard areas of this phenomenon are going to look.
Speaker 1: In my opinion, I feel we just don't have the
Speaker 1: technology or knowledge of this yet, you know, just like
Speaker 1: you said the Marianna Trench, we thought that was probably
Speaker 1: just you know, rock, and then we had the technology
Speaker 1: to go down there and now it's teeming with life.
Speaker 1: Just like we thought this was our galaxy. Then we
Speaker 1: got the technology to look beyond our galaxy and it's
Speaker 1: a greater universe. I feel like that could very well
Speaker 1: be the same thing here where we understand vibration or
Speaker 1: dimensions or whatever it is. I don't know what it is.
Speaker 1: That's why we're talking here. But at some point we
Speaker 1: will have that technology or that understanding where we will
Speaker 1: understand these things better. Do you have thoughts on non
Speaker 1: local consciousness? Do you think that that's what's happening or
Speaker 1: do do you feel like it's just in our brain?
Speaker 5: No? I mean I think that that I think that
Speaker 5: that is what's happening, and I think that, you know,
Speaker 5: some of the best evidence that we have for that
Speaker 5: are you know, these side programs that are that our
Speaker 5: government has invested a lot of money in you know,
Speaker 5: there's also the work of people like Dean Raiden at
Speaker 5: the Institute of Noetic Sciences. You know, they have a
Speaker 5: ton of incredible resources on their website so that you
Speaker 5: can go and like look at what they've done in
Speaker 5: the lab to prove that we're able as humans to
Speaker 5: access information that is non local to us. It's one
Speaker 5: thing to kind of like approach these ideas intellectually, but
Speaker 5: if you actually take a little time and like try
Speaker 5: something like remote viewing, I've never met anybody who has
Speaker 5: tried it and hasn't had like some degree of success
Speaker 5: that made them say, like, reality is fundamentally not constructed
Speaker 5: in the way that I thought it was, because we're
Speaker 5: able to access information that we shouldn't be able to access,
Speaker 5: and so I think that we're only at the very
Speaker 5: very beginning of recognizing that it's true. And it's really
Speaker 5: exciting to think about what the implications of that could
Speaker 5: be as we move forward, you know, as a species,
Speaker 5: and what we might be able to do with that.
Speaker 1: Just like again, like what you're saying it ties right
Speaker 1: into what I was just saying, which is that reality
Speaker 1: is not what we think it is. But when we
Speaker 1: gain these new tools, we now know what the galaxy is,
Speaker 1: we now know what the universe is. We now we
Speaker 1: don't know what the trenches. Remote viewing just kind of
Speaker 1: opens it up to understanding that there are more possibilities.
Speaker 1: You know a guy like Dean Rayden that I like
Speaker 1: as well as Stephen Schwartz. Do you know that guy
Speaker 1: Stephen Schwartz. You know he's done a lot of these
Speaker 1: studies where he does these experiments. I love any of
Speaker 1: these sort of mysteries. Like he'll buy twelve cases of wine,
Speaker 1: and he'll have six cases of wine in that same
Speaker 1: batch blessed by monks for a week. Then he has
Speaker 1: a party and they hands out that wine, and then
Speaker 1: they'll have you know, these six bottles were blessed by
Speaker 1: the monks and these six were not, but nobody knows
Speaker 1: what they are. It's blind. And then he'll ask the
Speaker 1: people at the party, well, which wine do you like?
Speaker 1: And they all say, you know, it's like forget the number,
Speaker 1: but it's like eighty five percent, say oh, definitely, A
Speaker 1: is way better. It's the same batch, it's the same bottle,
Speaker 1: it's the same everything. But it was blessed by a monk?
Speaker 1: Why is that wine better and statistically significant the number see?
Speaker 1: To me, that's something that just shows us there's more
Speaker 1: to what we perceive than is here. That's I guess
Speaker 1: where I live. I live in a space where it
Speaker 1: says there's enough happening in this UFO community to warrant
Speaker 1: more scientific investigation. And I believe that there's more to
Speaker 1: life than just the Newtonian three D world that we
Speaker 1: all grew up in. Because of these things, like you
Speaker 1: just mentioned, people haven't experienced themselves with remote viewing. Another
Speaker 1: one of these for me personally, would be synchronicities. This
Speaker 1: is my favorite topic in this field, as I've actually
Speaker 1: experienced unbelievable, incredible synchronicities that you cannot say to me
Speaker 1: it's just a coincidence. I will not believe you. I
Speaker 1: have had those that are so I can't even believe it.
Speaker 1: So what are your thoughts on things like synchronicities.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I love synchronicities, and I think that they point
Speaker 5: to exactly what you're talking about, which is that we
Speaker 5: are in some sense co creating our reality, that we
Speaker 5: don't just like exist within this reality, that we are
Speaker 5: like our consciousness is enmeshed and is fundamentally a part
Speaker 5: of this reality, and that there's a feedback between us
Speaker 5: and our environment and you know the world that we
Speaker 5: live in. And I find that to be extraordinarily profound
Speaker 5: because I think it really speaks to not just our
Speaker 5: power as conscious beings and that I think that we're
Speaker 5: capable of a lot more than we've been told, but
Speaker 5: I also think that it speaks to that there might
Speaker 5: be some greater purpose to us, to us being here.
Speaker 5: When your environment is able to produce meaningful experiences for
Speaker 5: you that like propel your life in a different direction,
Speaker 5: or connect you to a piece of information that you
Speaker 5: really needed at that time, or that you know somehow
Speaker 5: affirms you, or you know, like like these can have
Speaker 5: really profound impacts on people's lives. Then like that suggests
Speaker 5: that you know, there might be something really more to
Speaker 5: our existence and that there might be some real meaning
Speaker 5: to being alive and to being a human. And I
Speaker 5: think that's a really beautiful thing.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And these guys that deal with after life, like
Speaker 1: Richard Martini, for example, they will tell you that you know,
Speaker 1: we chose this life and that we are on stage
Speaker 1: right now and we're living in these bodies, acting out
Speaker 1: what we chose, but the real higher self is backstage
Speaker 1: or up into an ethereal world, somewhere heaven or whatever
Speaker 1: you want to call it. There's another place where our
Speaker 1: higher self exists, and we choose to come down to
Speaker 1: earth and live these lives. And if that, in fact
Speaker 1: is true, then you can imagine that are either our
Speaker 1: higher south or another being beyond our comprehension is helping
Speaker 1: us along the way on our little journey.
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: Doesn't that seem to kind of tie in? When we
Speaker 1: come back, we're going to talk more with Kelly. We're
Speaker 1: going to ask her about her brand new production company.
Speaker 1: We'll be right Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast
Speaker 1: to Coast AM Paranormal podcast Network. We are back on
Speaker 1: Beyond Contact. We're talking to Kelly Chase today. Kelly, let's
Speaker 1: talk about your brand new entity. I'll let you pronounce it.
Speaker 1: It's the production company that you have with Jay Christopher
Speaker 1: King and Jordan Flowers and the three of you have
Speaker 1: created this production company and you have a three piece
Speaker 1: mini series coming out called The Beyond UFOs and New Reality.
Speaker 1: Tell us about that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, thank you. So much for asking. So our
Speaker 5: new production company is called Atocolypse Productions. The reason that
Speaker 5: we named it that is because, you know, we talk
Speaker 5: a lot about kind of ontological shock, and I think
Speaker 5: that that's you know, in this community, it's something that
Speaker 5: we talk about a lot. But I think that what
Speaker 5: we're coming up against, you know, and I think that
Speaker 5: so much of this conversation has even been about, is
Speaker 5: that we're not just dealing with something that's going to
Speaker 5: be ontologically shocking to people, but we're really coming up
Speaker 5: against an apocalypse of our ontologies. We're coming to this
Speaker 5: place where we're having recognitions about the nature of our
Speaker 5: reality and the nature of human ability, and the proliferation
Speaker 5: of life and intelligence that's out there that's going to
Speaker 5: change everything about how we see the world. We really
Speaker 5: do think of it as sort of an ontocolypse and
Speaker 5: ontological apocalypse, and so that was the name of the
Speaker 5: production company. And our goal is to you know, really
Speaker 5: create media that helped people process and integrate some of
Speaker 5: these ideas. There's been some absolutely incredible work that's been done, documentaries,
Speaker 5: docuseries and all of the above that have been done
Speaker 5: by people in this field that we really admire like
Speaker 5: you know, James Fox and Lesliekane and I could go
Speaker 5: on and on, but so far the conversation for the
Speaker 5: most part, has really been kind of stalled out in
Speaker 5: this place where we're proving that there's even a reason
Speaker 5: for us to be talking about this, right, Like, we're
Speaker 5: making the case that UFOs are even worth talking about,
Speaker 5: and so the whole thing ends up being about, you know,
Speaker 5: asking the questions are UFOs is real, and that at
Speaker 5: the end you come to like, maybe they are right. Well,
Speaker 5: we wanted to start and create media that starts from
Speaker 5: the place of this phenomenon is real, first of all,
Speaker 5: what could it be and what could it mean about
Speaker 5: the nature of our reality, so that we can start
Speaker 5: having these larger conversations, you know, not just about the
Speaker 5: UFO phenomenon, but about anomalist experiences of all kinds consciousness,
Speaker 5: you know, all of these kind of groundbreaking things that
Speaker 5: we're learning about ourselves and about the world in a
Speaker 5: way that's approachable and for people who are newer to
Speaker 5: the topic, you know, but also treats people intelligently. I
Speaker 5: think that there is a real dearth of like intelligent
Speaker 5: media out there, and that people enjoy being spoken to
Speaker 5: like their adults. Listen. There are a lot of people,
Speaker 5: like you said, who are no way close to even
Speaker 5: considering any of this to be real, and a lot
Speaker 5: of them may never but there's also this kind of
Speaker 5: growing community of people who do recognize that this is
Speaker 5: real and are ready to kind of move the conversation
Speaker 5: forward and talk about this in a more nuanced and
Speaker 5: complex way. And they don't care what mcwest and the
Speaker 5: skeptics think. They want to have a different kind of conversation,
Speaker 5: and so we're just really trying to carve out a
Speaker 5: space for that to happen through our media, and so
Speaker 5: we're really excited. Our docu series should be out by
Speaker 5: the end of the summer, and it's three episodes and
Speaker 5: it'll be available on Amazon Prime and Apple TV.
Speaker 1: That's going to be awesome. I think what do we
Speaker 1: do about it now is a great angle. You're not
Speaker 1: dumbing it down for the lowest common denominator. You're already
Speaker 1: accepting the premise that this something is happening, and what
Speaker 1: are we going to do about it? I think that
Speaker 1: is fantastic. You've got some really incredible people that have
Speaker 1: been working on this right.
Speaker 5: Whitley Strieber, Diana Pasolka, Jeff Kreipel, Mike masters, Io Whiteley,
Speaker 5: Alex Dietrich. Also some like newer names in the field.
Speaker 5: So people who are familiar with my podcast, there's doctor
Speaker 5: James Madden, who just wrote Unidentified Flying hyper Object, which
Speaker 5: is actually the first book that we published through our
Speaker 5: production company. He's a philosopher. There's a really fantastic researcher
Speaker 5: named Daniel Elizondo who wrote Loose Threads and has a
Speaker 5: book coming out. So we wanted to both like kind
Speaker 5: of go to the top experts in the field and
Speaker 5: also this kind of new emerging group of experts because
Speaker 5: there is kind of like a new generation kind of
Speaker 5: coming up through the ranks that we're really excited to
Speaker 5: kind of give a platform too as well. But we
Speaker 5: really wanted to make it credible, make it based as
Speaker 5: much as we can, and like science and peer reviewed work,
Speaker 5: and so yeah, we're really really excited to show it
Speaker 5: to you.
Speaker 1: I love that approach, and we do need new young
Speaker 1: blood in this One of the problems in this community, unfortunately,
Speaker 1: is most of these guys are aging out. A lot
Speaker 1: of these incredible researchers are retiring. They're moving on from
Speaker 1: this and that's we need some new blood, which is
Speaker 1: really great that you're working on that. You also mentioned
Speaker 1: your podcast, UFO rabbit Hole podcast. I believe I heard
Speaker 1: a rumor that that's going to morph into something new.
Speaker 5: Once the docuseries comes out. My podcast is kind of evolving.
Speaker 5: I want to be able to have bigger conversations and
Speaker 5: bring in more and more people. And also, you know,
Speaker 5: when you make of like three episode docuseries, you can't
Speaker 5: say nearly everything that you want to say. We want
Speaker 5: to use the podcast as kind of a way to
Speaker 5: continue the conversation and sort of double click into some
Speaker 5: of the more complex issues that maybe you can't handle
Speaker 5: in like a six minute segment in a television show.
Speaker 5: The UFO rabbit Hole is going to be evolving and
Speaker 5: becoming the beyond. My co host will be Ja Christopher King,
Speaker 5: who's the director of the docuseries. And then he's also
Speaker 5: somebody who's contributed a ton to the field in his
Speaker 5: own right. He is one of the co founders of
Speaker 5: the Experiencer Group, and he also is one of the
Speaker 5: co founders of the Incredible and Quire Anomalist conference series
Speaker 5: has been going on for the last few years in
Speaker 5: New York City. He's somebody that has become a really
Speaker 5: good friend and somebody that I really enjoyed collaborating with.
Speaker 5: We're excited to kind of grow this docuseries not just
Speaker 5: as just kind of the seed that we're planting, and
Speaker 5: we're hoping to grow kind of a larger ecosystem around
Speaker 5: the docuseries, or we're having kind of larger conversations about
Speaker 5: this topic that you know, acknowledge the disclosure movement and
Speaker 5: all of that, but also we're kind of going beyond
Speaker 5: those narratives which I we called it that and talking
Speaker 5: about the full spectrum of what this phenomenon involves. And yeah,
Speaker 5: we're super excited to get started on that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's great. Yet we know Jay of course here,
Speaker 1: Jay's part of our contact in the Desert is are
Speaker 1: you in a sense? But Jay has the experiencial group
Speaker 1: that we have implemented and incorporated into the contact in
Speaker 1: the Desert event. I always wonder this when I talk
Speaker 1: to people in this field, but you are the one
Speaker 1: I really want to ask, which books would you recom
Speaker 1: on this subject and what are the must reads that
Speaker 1: you feel are the most important?
Speaker 5: Oh, my gosh. I love this question because I love
Speaker 5: books so much. Like I said, I think people need
Speaker 5: to go back to the beginning. Like I think that
Speaker 5: there's a lot of really great books that have been
Speaker 5: released recently. I think, you know, Ross Coltheart's In Plain
Speaker 5: Sight comes to mind, Diana Pasalka's American Cosmic, and I
Speaker 5: think that those things are really great in terms of
Speaker 5: getting a handle on what's going on right now. But
Speaker 5: I think you also need to go back to the
Speaker 5: beginning and kind of, you know, read things from before.
Speaker 5: One of my favorite books and the name escapes me
Speaker 5: and I'm so sorry about that, it's by Edward J. Rupelt,
Speaker 5: who was the original director of Project Blue Book, and
Speaker 5: I think that reading that and kind of understanding the
Speaker 5: roots of that program and the kinds of cases that
Speaker 5: they were looking at, and also problems that they were
Speaker 5: running up against and the resources that they were not
Speaker 5: given and helps to really paint the picture of where
Speaker 5: we are today, because not much is change, to be honest.
Speaker 5: And I also think going back and reading I always
Speaker 5: recommend Jacques Vallet and John Keel. There's a lot of
Speaker 5: lip service given to both of those thinkers in this field,
Speaker 5: and I don't think a lot of people actually read them.
Speaker 5: And you know, everybody talks about like the Mothman prophecies
Speaker 5: or like Passport to Magonia. But I think you've got
Speaker 5: to go deeper. With Valet, I always recommend Messengers of
Speaker 5: Deception and The Invisible College. With Keel, I really recommend
Speaker 5: Operation Trojan Horse in the Eighth Tower. Once you kind
Speaker 5: of get your feet wet, don't be afraid to get
Speaker 5: into the experience or stuff like read David Jacobs, read
Speaker 5: John Mack.
Speaker 1: Those are my two. Those are the two on the
Speaker 1: top of my list right there.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I know those are those are probably the two best.
Speaker 5: And I think, you know, don't be afraid to don't
Speaker 5: be afraid to go into that side of it as well,
Speaker 5: because I think that it's incredibly critical to understand what
Speaker 5: experiencers are encountering for us to get a holistic view
Speaker 5: of the phenomenon.
Speaker 1: And then then you were going to say which podcast
Speaker 1: you recommended that's available on the iHeartRadio on Coast to
Speaker 1: Coast am Paranormal podcast, which is.
Speaker 5: Beyond context see favorite. See.
Speaker 1: I just wanted to clarify that to make sure that
Speaker 1: everybody knew right where to go for that information, Kelly,
Speaker 1: It's a real pleasure. Where can people find you online?
Speaker 5: The easiest place to find me is at UFO rabbit
Speaker 5: hole dot com. You can find head of Everything there.
Speaker 5: You can find me on Twitter, also at UFO Underscore
Speaker 5: rabbit Underscore a Hole. The podcast is available wherever you
Speaker 5: listen to podcasts. It's on basically every platform.
Speaker 1: Awesome, thanks Kelly. I really really enjoyed this. It was
Speaker 1: a lot of fun. I can imagine you and I
Speaker 1: doing this for about seven hours. Okay, everyone, thank you
Speaker 1: for listening to Beyond Contact. We will be back next
Speaker 1: week with an all new episode. You can follow me
Speaker 1: Captain Ron on Twitter and Instagram at CID Underscore Captain Ron.
Speaker 1: Stay connected by checking out Contact intheesert dot com. Stay
Speaker 1: open minded and rational as we explore the unknown right
Speaker 1: here on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast am Paranormal
Speaker 1: Podcast Network.
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Ghost
Speaker 2: Day and Paranormal Podcast Network. Makes ure and check out
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Speaker 2: to iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 4: M