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Speaker 1: And you're here.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for choosing the iHeartRadio and Coast to Ghost Day

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Speaker 2: and Paranormal Podcast Network. Your quest for podcasts of the paranormal, supernatural, and.

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Speaker 1: The unexplained ends here.

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Speaker 2: We invite you to enjoy all our shows we have

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Speaker 2: on this network, and right now, let's start with Chase

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Speaker 2: of the Afterlife with the Santra shandplay.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware the thoughts and

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Speaker 3: opinions expressed by the host are their thoughts and opinions

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Speaker 3: only and do not reflect those of iHeartMedia, iHeartRadio, Coast

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Speaker 3: to Coast am employees of Premiere Networks, or their sponsors

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Speaker 3: and associates. We would like to encourage you to do

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Speaker 3: your own research and discover the subject matter for yourself.

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Speaker 4: Hey everyone, Captain Ron and each week on Beyond Contact,

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Speaker 4: we'll explore the latest news in ufology, discuss some of

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Speaker 4: the classic cases, and bring you the latest information from

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Speaker 4: the newest cases as we talk with the top experts.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Beyond Contact. I am Captain Ron, and

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Speaker 1: today I'll be speaking again with Kelly Chase for part

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Speaker 1: two of our interview. Kelly's a branding and marketing expert

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Speaker 1: and also the host and creator of the very successful

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Speaker 1: UFO rabbit Hole podcast. We were talking with her about disclosure.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about this UAP Act real fast here. Remember

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Speaker 1: Schumer wrote this bill in twenty twenty three. Of course,

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Speaker 1: it eventually got gutted from sixty four pages down to

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Speaker 1: I believe twenty four and now they're making some efforts

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Speaker 1: to try to reinstate part of it or pass pieces

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Speaker 1: in other bills. They're going to try to get back

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Speaker 1: some of these witness protections and eminent domain and some

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Speaker 1: of these other pieces of the bill. But I can't

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Speaker 1: help but feel Kelly, let me s get your opinion

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Speaker 1: on this. Even if we got everything we needed in

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Speaker 1: this bill when it's its original form really was thorough,

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Speaker 1: that this would not be the watershed moment we hope

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Speaker 1: it is. If any of this is real and the

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Speaker 1: government has this technology, and they have bodies and craft

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Speaker 1: and all of these things that people speculate that they do,

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Speaker 1: I would think that people controlling that knowledge would be

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Speaker 1: able to further bury it somewhere deep somewhere. They'd be

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Speaker 1: able to skirt these provisions some way. And it doesn't

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Speaker 1: matter what bills or laws we passed they're going to

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Speaker 1: bury it, right, what do you think?

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Speaker 5: No, I completely agree. I mean, starting with the fact

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Speaker 5: that this legislation, you know, by Chuck Shoomer's own admission,

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Speaker 5: was modeled on the legislation that was written to give

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Speaker 5: us transparency around the you know, JFK assassination. And we're

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Speaker 5: not exactly like swimming in JFK transparency around here, you know,

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Speaker 5: like we still every president continues to push back when

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Speaker 5: that when that inform is going to be released to

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Speaker 5: the public, And that same mechanism for the president to

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Speaker 5: make that decision was in that bill. And there were

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Speaker 5: a lot of other things as well. You know, I

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Speaker 5: think that what people don't recognize and that I only

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Speaker 5: recently learned, and this is a statistic that blows my mind.

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Speaker 5: I don't know what the current numbers are, but there

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Speaker 5: is a study that was done in two thousand and

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Speaker 5: four that basically showed that the government in two thousand

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Speaker 5: and four, the government, as we think about it, like

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Speaker 5: in your as you learn in like fifth grade, is

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Speaker 5: one point eight million people. However, there's this like black

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Speaker 5: part of the government that's made up of contractors and

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Speaker 5: you know, people in classified jobs, people with you know

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Speaker 5: clearances and that sort of thing that aren't an official

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Speaker 5: part of our government, and that is four million people.

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Speaker 5: And I think that what we don't realize that you.

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Speaker 1: Just said, yes, double of what we know is in the.

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Speaker 5: Government exactly, and that was in two thousand and four.

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Speaker 5: I can only imagine that it's gotten worse sensaled. I

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Speaker 5: don't have those numbers for sure, and I think that

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Speaker 5: that's a really profound thing to recognize. I mean, honestly,

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Speaker 5: if we take David Grush at his word, if what

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Speaker 5: he is saying is like materially true, even mostly true,

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Speaker 5: what he's saying is that there is a rogue faction

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Speaker 5: buried within that kind of black part of our government

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Speaker 5: that's sort of a government but not really our government,

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Speaker 5: that has possession of paradigm shattering technology, and that they

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Speaker 5: are accountable to no one. And so I don't think

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Speaker 5: that as much as I think it's important that we

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Speaker 5: try through these legislative measures to get more transparency, like

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Speaker 5: we have to start somewhere, I think it's naive to

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Speaker 5: think that, like they're going to pass a law and

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Speaker 5: those people who've been guarding this secret for decades and

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Speaker 5: decades and who are accountable to no one and who

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Speaker 5: have all of these vast resources, are suddenly going to

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Speaker 5: be like, oh, you got.

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Speaker 1: Us, Yeah, I see, I see the penalty, So we're

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Speaker 1: going to do it. See. I kind of fear that

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Speaker 1: this will have the opposite effect. They'll pass this bill,

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Speaker 1: they'll get this thing, and then the mainstream world's going

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Speaker 1: to go, well, we have it, and they have haven't

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Speaker 1: turned everything over, so therefore there's nothing to this, and

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Speaker 1: it's actually going to bite us in the ass. That's

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Speaker 1: what I fear is going to happen here, because I know,

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Speaker 1: I know Steve Bassett and Danny Sheahan and God blessed

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Speaker 1: these guys for fighting on the front lines. They think

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Speaker 1: that this could really do some good. And I think

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Speaker 1: protecting witnesses is the number one thing, and that probably

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Speaker 1: would do some good. I just don't think we're going

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Speaker 1: to get to the real bottom, like you were mentioning

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Speaker 1: of these black projects. Why would those guys give that up?

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Speaker 1: If it's this, if it's as big as we think

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Speaker 1: it could be, They're not going to They're going to

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Speaker 1: figure out a way that they operate so far outside

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Speaker 1: of this that it doesn't matter to them what little

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Speaker 1: laws or rules you have. Okay, let's move on here

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Speaker 1: to you know we have. We don't have an idea

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Speaker 1: of what we're dealing with here. I mean, it's incredible

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Speaker 1: how we really just don't know. We make all these

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Speaker 1: associations based on first hand accounts and books and movies

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Speaker 1: and whatnot, but we really don't know. People that have

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Speaker 1: had experiences don't know. You brought up a fascinating interesting

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Speaker 1: point the other day where Whitley streamer of all people,

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Speaker 1: Whitley streamber at the Sole conference pointed out that we

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Speaker 1: really don't have any evidence that UFOs have anything to

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Speaker 1: do with the abduction phenomenon. They may in fact be unrelated.

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Speaker 1: Isn't that fascinating?

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Speaker 5: No, I think that's incredibly fascinating, and I think that

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Speaker 5: it also shows kind of the level of skepticism and

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Speaker 5: humility that we need to bring to this topic. It's

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Speaker 5: something that I really admire about Whitley is that I

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Speaker 5: think that a lot of people have this conception of

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Speaker 5: Whitley is that he's just like this overly credulous guy

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Speaker 5: who believes every crazy story. And granted, Whitley has more

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Speaker 5: crazy stories than just about anybody you will ever ever meet.

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Speaker 5: But the fact that he's been able to have this

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Speaker 5: kind of like incredible life in these decades long interactions

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Speaker 5: with whatever this thing is and maintain that level of objectivity. Like,

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Speaker 5: that's a reason that I really admire Whitley and kind

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Speaker 5: of see him as a as a mentor, because I

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Speaker 5: think that that kind of radical skepticism and that unwillingness

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Speaker 5: to connect a dot without having enough objective evidence to

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Speaker 5: do so is exactly what we need to kind of

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Speaker 5: unravel this thing.

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Speaker 1: I agree one hundred percent. And I also like to

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Speaker 1: bring out to people about Whitley. You know, he got

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Speaker 1: a lot of criticism when Communion came out, the number

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Speaker 1: one criticism being well, he's a science fiction writer. Of course,

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Speaker 1: he wrote this book, okay, in whatever it was eighty

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Speaker 1: seven in the eighties when that criticism came out. That's

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Speaker 1: a fair criticism. Here we are, what forty some odd

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Speaker 1: years later, he is as hell bent into this topic

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Speaker 1: as he ever was, and I think that sort of

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Speaker 1: justifies his position, and it really kind of strengthens the

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Speaker 1: case of his claims. This seems to even tie in

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Speaker 1: with possibly near death experiences and other paranormal anomalies. There

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Speaker 1: seems to be a lot of overlap, and I can't

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Speaker 1: help but feel that all of this might somehow be related.

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Speaker 1: It's just stuff we don't understand yet.

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Speaker 5: What do you think, No, I completely agree. I think

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Speaker 5: think that in a lot of ways, UFO, like that

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Speaker 5: word is kind of like a stand in for this

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Speaker 5: much larger phenomenon that's going on, and that if you

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Speaker 5: look at you know, once again, this is why you

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Speaker 5: have to go back. I think, you know, people don't

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Speaker 5: go back enough and like read their history and understand,

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Speaker 5: you know, the history of this topic and and of

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Speaker 5: the people who are involved in this topic. If you

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Speaker 5: look at some of the people who are kind of

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Speaker 5: at the root of what we see as the modern

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Speaker 5: you know, disclosure movement, you know, we if we trace

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Speaker 5: the lineage back from Arrow to the UAP Task Force

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Speaker 5: to you know, a tip ASAP and then you know,

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Speaker 5: back to like to NIDS and to Bob Bigelow, and

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Speaker 5: you know, you go all the way back, like these

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Speaker 5: people who have been doing this for decades, and all

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Speaker 5: of them are fascinated not so much with UFOs as

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Speaker 5: they are with near death experiences di phenomena. You know,

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Speaker 5: you look at all of these people who were involved,

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Speaker 5: you know, like how put Off and you know Russell

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Speaker 5: targ and you know all of these people who were

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Speaker 5: involved in you know, Stargate and these like early remote

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Speaker 5: viewing programs and all of that stuff within the government.

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Speaker 5: When you see that, what you start to understand is

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Speaker 5: that like these things have always been tied up. It's

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Speaker 5: not just about like lights that we see in the sky.

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Speaker 5: This seems to also be tied profoundly in some way

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Speaker 5: to consciousness, to human potential and like what we're actually

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Speaker 5: capable of as human beings. And that's really complex, and

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Speaker 5: it takes like a lot of reading and parsing to

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Speaker 5: get to a point where you can, like it's hard

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Speaker 5: to just explain to somebody on the street like how

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Speaker 5: those things are related, but it's clear that they are

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Speaker 5: deeply related. And so I think that, you know, people

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Speaker 5: say like, ah, I just want to you know, I

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Speaker 5: don't want to deal with any of that consciousness stuff

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Speaker 5: that's all WU. And it's like, well, I don't think

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Speaker 5: you can throw that out though. I think that if

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Speaker 5: you throw out the what people call WU, you're no

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Speaker 5: longer really talking about the UFO phenomenon. You're talking about

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Speaker 5: this kind of like construction in your head of what

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Speaker 5: you think the UFO phenomenon is. We can't deny the

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Speaker 5: hard parts just because we don't want to deal with

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Speaker 5: the data.

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Speaker 1: I agree one hundred percent, and I am on that

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Speaker 1: list of people that are equally fascinated by the near

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Speaker 1: death experience these different kind of anomalies. I think I'm

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Speaker 1: just curious as to the unknown. I think that's the

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Speaker 1: attraction here. When we come back, we're going to be

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Speaker 1: talking more with Kelly Chase here about UFOs and consciousness

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Speaker 1: because that ties in as well as she just mentioned.

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Speaker 1: You are listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and

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Speaker 1: Coast to Coast AM Paranormal podcast Network. Okay, we are

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Speaker 1: back on Beyond Contact. I'm Captain Ron and we're talking

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Speaker 1: to Kelly Chase. Kelly, we've talked a lot about UFOs,

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Speaker 1: and it's hard to not definitively what these UFOs are.

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Speaker 1: Most of the time, it's a light in the sky,

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Speaker 1: which could be a myriad of things, including a UFO.

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Speaker 1: Being open minded works both ways. You aren't open minded

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Speaker 1: because you think I'm open to these objects being UFOs,

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Speaker 1: therefore I'm open minded. That's that's not accurate. Well, you

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Speaker 1: actually have to be open to them being something else too.

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Speaker 1: That's what open minded is. I get frustrated when people

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Speaker 1: immediately jump to UFO. I do think that some of

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Speaker 1: these things could be UFOs. I just don't think that

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Speaker 1: should be the first option. I think it should be

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Speaker 1: the last option. Let's look at every other possible explanation.

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Speaker 1: Then maybe it's one of those very rare instances where

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Speaker 1: we have a truly unknown What do you think?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I absolutely agree. I you know, the vast majority

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Speaker 5: of sightings are probably something prosaic, or at the very least,

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Speaker 5: they're you know, some sort of technology that we're not

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Speaker 5: aware of. You know, we have lots of stuff in

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Speaker 5: the sky that people didn't like grow up seeing, like

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Speaker 5: you know, Starlink and the International Space Station and you know,

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Speaker 5: all kinds of satellites and that sort of thing, and

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Speaker 5: you know, now there's suddenly drones, and you know, there's

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Speaker 5: all kinds of stuff up there that like we didn't

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Speaker 5: most of us didn't grow up seeing in the sky.

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Speaker 5: And so I think a lot of it is a

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Speaker 5: case of misidentification, and so you really have to be,

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Speaker 5: you know, careful about assigning that kind of like UFO

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Speaker 5: label to just anything that you're like, I don't know

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Speaker 5: what that is. I mean, yes, it is unidentified and

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Speaker 5: it's flying, But to claim that it's truly anomaloust I

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Speaker 5: think that it has to to do something anomalous, and

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Speaker 5: you also have to have very meticulously gone through the

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Speaker 5: extensive list of all the other things that it could

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Speaker 5: be and definitively say like, it wasn't that and so.

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Speaker 5: And I think that that's what most people aren't aren't

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Speaker 5: really doing that work because it's hard to do. It

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Speaker 5: takes a lot of work. You know, there's a lot

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Speaker 5: of move on investigators who are like really skilled it

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Speaker 5: kind of running through all of those potentialities and you know,

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Speaker 5: ruling things out. But for most of us, we don't

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Speaker 5: have that time. And so I think that we just

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Speaker 5: need to like remain skeptical and like you said, stay

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Speaker 5: open to it, not as open to it not being

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Speaker 5: a UFO as we are to it being a UFO.

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Speaker 1: It's too easy to default to, oh it's a UFO,

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Speaker 1: it's an alien. Well that yeah, that's easy. It's hard

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Speaker 1: to know what to trust on video these days. You know,

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Speaker 1: everyone has a camera in their pocket, which is great,

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Speaker 1: but Also everyone has access to Photoshop, and now we

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Speaker 1: have these AI systems and it has ability to create

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Speaker 1: video images. So it's becoming harder and harder to discern

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Speaker 1: what's a credible sighting and what's not right.

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Speaker 5: Oh absolutely, I mean I make a certain contingent of

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Speaker 5: people actually very mad. This is like the thing I've

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Speaker 5: gotten the most angry emails about, you know, whenever I

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Speaker 5: say this, But it's but I believe it's true, which

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Speaker 5: is that I think that videos are terrible evidence. Just

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Speaker 5: in general, there's no real way in twenty twenty four

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Speaker 5: to prove that any particular video is real or not

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Speaker 5: unless you can prove specifically that like fraud has taken

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Speaker 5: place where you can identify this thing. Even then, it's

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Speaker 5: it's often speculation about, you know, if this could be faked, right,

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Speaker 5: But we have AI video, we have deep fakes, we

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Speaker 5: have CGI, and that is only the proliferation of these

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Speaker 5: things that can fool us are only growing. And so

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Speaker 5: I don't think that videos. I just don't think videos

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Speaker 5: are great are great evidence. I don't think they ever

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Speaker 5: have been. And you know, you can see that there's

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Speaker 5: there are people online right now who are still fighting

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Speaker 5: with like Mick West, and you know these other skeptics

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Speaker 5: about you know, the gimbal video and the those those

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Speaker 5: Navy videos that came out in twenty seventeen.

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Speaker 1: Right, we know those are real, but we just don't

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Speaker 1: know exactly what's on that video.

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Speaker 5: Right, And both sides have declared victory, right, Like, both

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Speaker 5: sides have said we've definitely debunked it or we've definitely

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Speaker 5: you know, proven it's true. And I think that both

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Speaker 5: of both sides are being disingenuous.

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Speaker 1: One that's back to our earlier conversation where people are

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Speaker 1: dug in their candidate can do anything they want. Because

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Speaker 1: this is my position, it's it's a shame that we

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Speaker 1: can't more be truly open minded and kind of you know,

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Speaker 1: accept these things. I do like it when these stories

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Speaker 1: have multiple witnesses, and those multiple witnesses also have a

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Speaker 1: photo or video evidence that at least supports their position.

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Speaker 1: I think you need all of that. The more you have, obviously,

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Speaker 1: the stronger it is.

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Speaker 5: To me, absolutely absolutely, if you can, the more corroborating

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Speaker 5: evidence that we have, the better. And I think videos

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Speaker 5: can be really interesting and like I love looking at them,

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Speaker 5: but unless you have kind of an accumulation of other

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Speaker 5: data that corroborates what's being seen in the video. I

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Speaker 5: think it's really difficult to say exactly. And even when

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Speaker 5: you have that, you can say like, Okay, there was

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Speaker 5: something there, but then we're no closer to figuring out

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Speaker 5: what that thing was exactly. All we can really say

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Speaker 5: is that it's anomalous, that's and.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, that's the best we can do. That's the truth. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So what about this AI we're talking about. To me,

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Speaker 1: if there was another civilization that was advanced out there

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Speaker 1: in the world, it would only make sense that they

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Speaker 1: would send AI out into the universe to explore. We

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Speaker 1: didn't even have this term ten twenty years ago, so

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Speaker 1: this is sort of new to us. You know, what

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Speaker 1: are we That's what we're going to do. We're going

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Speaker 1: to send space probes that have artificial intelligence on them.

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Speaker 1: Why would you send a biologic being? They need to eat,

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Speaker 1: they need to sleep, they get sick, they die, there's

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Speaker 1: all these issues. But AI, on the other hand, can

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Speaker 1: continuously learn, can work twenty four hours a day, doesn't

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Speaker 1: deal with sickness or microbes or anything like that. So

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Speaker 1: I think when people see some of these lights or

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Speaker 1: craft in the sky making these ninety degree turns, and

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Speaker 1: they say, well, that can't be real because a human's

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Speaker 1: brain couldn't handle the g fos blah blah blah blah. Well,

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Speaker 1: I don't think there's a biological being on there. Necessarily,

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Speaker 1: it would just be an AI machine. That's what makes

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Speaker 1: the most sense to me. Now, that could be a

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Speaker 1: military craft, it could be something from another government that

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Speaker 1: we don't know, but even if it is alien, it's

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Speaker 1: more likely to be AI in my opinion, What do

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Speaker 1: you think?

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Speaker 5: No, I completely agree, and I think those are all

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Speaker 5: all fantastic points. I also think that that there's the

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Speaker 5: problem of communication. You know, we think think about the

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Speaker 5: fact that, like, dogs are fairly smart, right, and they

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Speaker 5: live in our homes. They've been our little buddies for

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Speaker 5: thousands of years, and yet there's a real limitation on

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Speaker 5: how much we're even able to communicate with them, right

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Speaker 5: and But like, like, you can have a certain level

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Speaker 5: of understanding with your dog, but like, explain a credit

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Speaker 5: score to your dog, right and so and so, if

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Speaker 5: there were these more advanced beings, or more technologically advanced

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Speaker 5: beings who wanted to come here or wanted to communicate

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Speaker 5: with us in some way. I think that we really

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Speaker 5: underestimate the extent to which that might be difficult, because

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Speaker 5: we have different sensory apparatusm we have different culture, and

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Speaker 5: we have different context for everything, and so I think

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Speaker 5: that that might be really difficult. But like AI thinks

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Speaker 5: really quickly, it thinks, you know, thousands and thousands of

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Speaker 5: times faster than a biological entity, those algorithms can be

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Speaker 5: more plastic and can more flexible than you know, at

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Speaker 5: least our own biological intelligence as we know it can be.

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Speaker 5: And so I think that you know, beyond all the

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Speaker 5: excellent reasons you know you put out there, I also

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Speaker 5: think that you know, we see how quickly just in

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Speaker 5: the last few years, AI, even the kind of lower

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Speaker 5: level AI that we've developed right now, like how quickly

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Speaker 5: it's evolving, and how quickly it can learn, and how

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Speaker 5: quickly it learned to talk to us like it was

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Speaker 5: us that you would almost maybe need something like that

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Speaker 5: if you were going to try to communicate with a

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Speaker 5: species that was that was fundamentally different than you.

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Speaker 1: AI is another example of how this new technology comes

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Speaker 1: along and suddenly opens up all of these doors for us,

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Speaker 1: as did the telescope, and as we got more telescopes,

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Speaker 1: we got more knowledge. I love to point to the

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Speaker 1: fact that I forget the year always, but it's in

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Speaker 1: like the twenties when we had the Wilson Observatory. Until

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Speaker 1: we had that telescope, the top mainstream scientists in the

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Speaker 1: world thought that our galaxy was in fact the entirety

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Speaker 1: of the universe. And it was only when we developed

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Speaker 1: a telescope to see further that we realize that this

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Speaker 1: isn't the universe. This is a tiny little galaxy which

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Speaker 1: is our Milky Way Galaxy, and we're part of many

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Speaker 1: galaxies that make up the universe. And that wasn't ten

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Speaker 1: thousand years ago, that was right around one hundred years ago.

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Speaker 1: So you can imagine, like, look at this AI technology

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Speaker 1: that we're just in the beginning stages of where's that

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Speaker 1: going to be in five years, ten years, god knows,

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Speaker 1: one hundred years, my god. So it's these kind of

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Speaker 1: advancements that I think open up this to a much

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Speaker 1: larger understanding for us. When we return, we're going to

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Speaker 1: be talking more with Kelly Chase. You're listening to Beyond

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Speaker 1: Contact right here on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast

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Speaker 1: am Paranormal podcast Network. We are back on Beyond Contact.

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Speaker 1: I'm talking to Kelly Chase, and Kelly we spoke about

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Speaker 1: this whole thing, how these different phenomenon could tie into

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Speaker 1: the afterlife and other aspects of reality that we just

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Speaker 1: don't quite understand yet. I hear a lot of overlap

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Speaker 1: in the first person accounts of these different phenomenon, like

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Speaker 1: we mentioned earlier, and it may be so much larger

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Speaker 1: than just beings getting on a craft and flying here.

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Speaker 1: There's this whole consciousness aspect of this phenomenon that is

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Speaker 1: really fascinating. And I love these hard science guys, like

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Speaker 1: for example, Max Plank had that quote and it says,

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Speaker 1: I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative

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Speaker 1: from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we

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Speaker 1: talk about, everything that we regard as ex existing postulates consciousness,

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Speaker 1: and so it becomes even more of a tangled web.

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Speaker 5: Right absolutely. I mean, I think that we are on

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Speaker 5: the verge of discovering not just non human intelligence and AI,

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Speaker 5: and I think that there's a lot happening all at once.

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Speaker 5: We're really at this kind of quantum leap in terms

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Speaker 5: of our evolution as humans. And I think that, you know,

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Speaker 5: it's something that in some ways started with the Enlightenment,

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Speaker 5: where you know, suddenly we were we kind of discovered

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Speaker 5: what we would consider modern science, and you know, we

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Speaker 5: kind of put away all of these things that we

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Speaker 5: couldn't measure directly. We said, you know what, if you

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Speaker 5: can't measure it directly, then you can't really say anything

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Speaker 5: about it. And then over time that kind of shifted

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Speaker 5: from if you can't measure it, you can't say anything

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Speaker 5: about it too. If you can't measure it, then it

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Speaker 5: doesn't exist, right, And that's sort of the place that

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Speaker 5: we've been for the past, you know, one hundred or

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Speaker 5: so years, because that's the way we kind of do

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Speaker 5: things right, Like we make a change and then we

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Speaker 5: go too far, and then we over and then we

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Speaker 5: come back. And I think the pendulum is swinging back

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Speaker 5: the other way, where we're saying, clearly there are things

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Speaker 5: that we can't measure directly that do have some sort

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Speaker 5: of an actual existence, and we can't just kind of

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Speaker 5: like dismiss those things because it turns out that they

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Speaker 5: might have something to them. And I think that we're

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Speaker 5: just at a place where we're starting to recognize and

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Speaker 5: that as we do that that our concept of you know,

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Speaker 5: like you were talking about before with the telescope and

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Speaker 5: how it changed our perception of what the universe was.

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Speaker 5: I think that we're at a place where we're starting

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Speaker 5: to understand more about our place and the cosmos and

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Speaker 5: what we are and what we're capable of, and that

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Speaker 5: probably one hundred years from now even people are going

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Speaker 5: to look back at what we thought now and we

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Speaker 5: will have a completely different perspective on all of that.

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Speaker 5: It can be really disorienting and it can be stressful,

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Speaker 5: but it's also like a really really cool time to

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Speaker 5: be alive because there aren't these like huge inflection points

433
00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:52,280
Speaker 5: that happen very often.

434
00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:55,440
Speaker 1: Agreed. Wasn't there a quote like in I think the

435
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:58,680
Speaker 1: late eighteen hundreds where they said that we now know everything.

436
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:01,159
Speaker 1: It's just a matter of weighing and out. Isn't there?

437
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:02,440
Speaker 1: What's that quote? Isn't this? Yeah?

438
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:06,360
Speaker 5: Alfred Lord Tennyson said, like, there's nothing left to discover

439
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:09,120
Speaker 5: in science, only greater and greater measurement.

440
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:10,120
Speaker 1: I guess exactly.

441
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:12,720
Speaker 5: We discovered quantum physics, like you know, a decade later,

442
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:14,720
Speaker 5: and he looked silly, so right.

443
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:16,280
Speaker 1: I think, And that's how I feel a lot of

444
00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:21,560
Speaker 1: people that disregard areas of this phenomenon are going to look.

445
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:24,720
Speaker 1: In my opinion, I feel we just don't have the

446
00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:27,720
Speaker 1: technology or knowledge of this yet, you know, just like

447
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:30,400
Speaker 1: you said the Marianna Trench, we thought that was probably

448
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,480
Speaker 1: just you know, rock, and then we had the technology

449
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:35,760
Speaker 1: to go down there and now it's teeming with life.

450
00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:38,879
Speaker 1: Just like we thought this was our galaxy. Then we

451
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:42,160
Speaker 1: got the technology to look beyond our galaxy and it's

452
00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:45,160
Speaker 1: a greater universe. I feel like that could very well

453
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,639
Speaker 1: be the same thing here where we understand vibration or

454
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 1: dimensions or whatever it is. I don't know what it is.

455
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:54,080
Speaker 1: That's why we're talking here. But at some point we

456
00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:57,280
Speaker 1: will have that technology or that understanding where we will

457
00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:00,640
Speaker 1: understand these things better. Do you have thoughts on non

458
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,960
Speaker 1: local consciousness? Do you think that that's what's happening or

459
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:05,760
Speaker 1: do do you feel like it's just in our brain?

460
00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 5: No? I mean I think that that I think that

461
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:09,480
Speaker 5: that is what's happening, and I think that, you know,

462
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:11,639
Speaker 5: some of the best evidence that we have for that

463
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:15,920
Speaker 5: are you know, these side programs that are that our

464
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,480
Speaker 5: government has invested a lot of money in you know,

465
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,440
Speaker 5: there's also the work of people like Dean Raiden at

466
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,719
Speaker 5: the Institute of Noetic Sciences. You know, they have a

467
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:27,960
Speaker 5: ton of incredible resources on their website so that you

468
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:29,800
Speaker 5: can go and like look at what they've done in

469
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 5: the lab to prove that we're able as humans to

470
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:37,960
Speaker 5: access information that is non local to us. It's one

471
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,919
Speaker 5: thing to kind of like approach these ideas intellectually, but

472
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 5: if you actually take a little time and like try

473
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 5: something like remote viewing, I've never met anybody who has

474
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:49,720
Speaker 5: tried it and hasn't had like some degree of success

475
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:53,560
Speaker 5: that made them say, like, reality is fundamentally not constructed

476
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:55,960
Speaker 5: in the way that I thought it was, because we're

477
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,920
Speaker 5: able to access information that we shouldn't be able to access,

478
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 5: and so I think that we're only at the very

479
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:05,040
Speaker 5: very beginning of recognizing that it's true. And it's really

480
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 5: exciting to think about what the implications of that could

481
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 5: be as we move forward, you know, as a species,

482
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 5: and what we might be able to do with that.

483
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:14,560
Speaker 1: Just like again, like what you're saying it ties right

484
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 1: into what I was just saying, which is that reality

485
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:18,359
Speaker 1: is not what we think it is. But when we

486
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 1: gain these new tools, we now know what the galaxy is,

487
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 1: we now know what the universe is. We now we

488
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,480
Speaker 1: don't know what the trenches. Remote viewing just kind of

489
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 1: opens it up to understanding that there are more possibilities.

490
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:30,199
Speaker 1: You know a guy like Dean Rayden that I like

491
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:32,160
Speaker 1: as well as Stephen Schwartz. Do you know that guy

492
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 1: Stephen Schwartz. You know he's done a lot of these

493
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 1: studies where he does these experiments. I love any of

494
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 1: these sort of mysteries. Like he'll buy twelve cases of wine,

495
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 1: and he'll have six cases of wine in that same

496
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 1: batch blessed by monks for a week. Then he has

497
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,520
Speaker 1: a party and they hands out that wine, and then

498
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,400
Speaker 1: they'll have you know, these six bottles were blessed by

499
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 1: the monks and these six were not, but nobody knows

500
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 1: what they are. It's blind. And then he'll ask the

501
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:00,359
Speaker 1: people at the party, well, which wine do you like?

502
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,879
Speaker 1: And they all say, you know, it's like forget the number,

503
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,439
Speaker 1: but it's like eighty five percent, say oh, definitely, A

504
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:10,119
Speaker 1: is way better. It's the same batch, it's the same bottle,

505
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:12,639
Speaker 1: it's the same everything. But it was blessed by a monk?

506
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 1: Why is that wine better and statistically significant the number see?

507
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 1: To me, that's something that just shows us there's more

508
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 1: to what we perceive than is here. That's I guess

509
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,159
Speaker 1: where I live. I live in a space where it

510
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,719
Speaker 1: says there's enough happening in this UFO community to warrant

511
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 1: more scientific investigation. And I believe that there's more to

512
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,439
Speaker 1: life than just the Newtonian three D world that we

513
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:39,960
Speaker 1: all grew up in. Because of these things, like you

514
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:43,639
Speaker 1: just mentioned, people haven't experienced themselves with remote viewing. Another

515
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:47,199
Speaker 1: one of these for me personally, would be synchronicities. This

516
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:49,880
Speaker 1: is my favorite topic in this field, as I've actually

517
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:55,639
Speaker 1: experienced unbelievable, incredible synchronicities that you cannot say to me

518
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 1: it's just a coincidence. I will not believe you. I

519
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 1: have had those that are so I can't even believe it.

520
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 1: So what are your thoughts on things like synchronicities.

521
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:07,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, I love synchronicities, and I think that they point

522
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:10,480
Speaker 5: to exactly what you're talking about, which is that we

523
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 5: are in some sense co creating our reality, that we

524
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 5: don't just like exist within this reality, that we are

525
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 5: like our consciousness is enmeshed and is fundamentally a part

526
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 5: of this reality, and that there's a feedback between us

527
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:31,919
Speaker 5: and our environment and you know the world that we

528
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 5: live in. And I find that to be extraordinarily profound

529
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:39,920
Speaker 5: because I think it really speaks to not just our

530
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 5: power as conscious beings and that I think that we're

531
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:48,439
Speaker 5: capable of a lot more than we've been told, but

532
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:52,160
Speaker 5: I also think that it speaks to that there might

533
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:55,119
Speaker 5: be some greater purpose to us, to us being here.

534
00:27:55,760 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 5: When your environment is able to produce meaningful experiences for

535
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 5: you that like propel your life in a different direction,

536
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 5: or connect you to a piece of information that you

537
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:08,439
Speaker 5: really needed at that time, or that you know somehow

538
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,359
Speaker 5: affirms you, or you know, like like these can have

539
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:15,639
Speaker 5: really profound impacts on people's lives. Then like that suggests

540
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,159
Speaker 5: that you know, there might be something really more to

541
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 5: our existence and that there might be some real meaning

542
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 5: to being alive and to being a human. And I

543
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 5: think that's a really beautiful thing.

544
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And these guys that deal with after life, like

545
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,399
Speaker 1: Richard Martini, for example, they will tell you that you know,

546
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 1: we chose this life and that we are on stage

547
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 1: right now and we're living in these bodies, acting out

548
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 1: what we chose, but the real higher self is backstage

549
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 1: or up into an ethereal world, somewhere heaven or whatever

550
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 1: you want to call it. There's another place where our

551
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 1: higher self exists, and we choose to come down to

552
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 1: earth and live these lives. And if that, in fact

553
00:28:57,840 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 1: is true, then you can imagine that are either our

554
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 1: higher south or another being beyond our comprehension is helping

555
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 1: us along the way on our little journey.

556
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 2: Right?

557
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 1: Doesn't that seem to kind of tie in? When we

558
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 1: come back, we're going to talk more with Kelly. We're

559
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 1: going to ask her about her brand new production company.

560
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 1: We'll be right Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast

561
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 1: to Coast AM Paranormal podcast Network. We are back on

562
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 1: Beyond Contact. We're talking to Kelly Chase today. Kelly, let's

563
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 1: talk about your brand new entity. I'll let you pronounce it.

564
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 1: It's the production company that you have with Jay Christopher

565
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 1: King and Jordan Flowers and the three of you have

566
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 1: created this production company and you have a three piece

567
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 1: mini series coming out called The Beyond UFOs and New Reality.

568
00:29:58,880 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 1: Tell us about that.

569
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, thank you. So much for asking. So our

570
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 5: new production company is called Atocolypse Productions. The reason that

571
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 5: we named it that is because, you know, we talk

572
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 5: a lot about kind of ontological shock, and I think

573
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 5: that that's you know, in this community, it's something that

574
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 5: we talk about a lot. But I think that what

575
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 5: we're coming up against, you know, and I think that

576
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 5: so much of this conversation has even been about, is

577
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 5: that we're not just dealing with something that's going to

578
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 5: be ontologically shocking to people, but we're really coming up

579
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 5: against an apocalypse of our ontologies. We're coming to this

580
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 5: place where we're having recognitions about the nature of our

581
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 5: reality and the nature of human ability, and the proliferation

582
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 5: of life and intelligence that's out there that's going to

583
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:43,480
Speaker 5: change everything about how we see the world. We really

584
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 5: do think of it as sort of an ontocolypse and

585
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 5: ontological apocalypse, and so that was the name of the

586
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 5: production company. And our goal is to you know, really

587
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 5: create media that helped people process and integrate some of

588
00:30:56,120 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 5: these ideas. There's been some absolutely incredible work that's been done, documentaries,

589
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 5: docuseries and all of the above that have been done

590
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 5: by people in this field that we really admire like

591
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 5: you know, James Fox and Lesliekane and I could go

592
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 5: on and on, but so far the conversation for the

593
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 5: most part, has really been kind of stalled out in

594
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 5: this place where we're proving that there's even a reason

595
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 5: for us to be talking about this, right, Like, we're

596
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 5: making the case that UFOs are even worth talking about,

597
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 5: and so the whole thing ends up being about, you know,

598
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 5: asking the questions are UFOs is real, and that at

599
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 5: the end you come to like, maybe they are right. Well,

600
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 5: we wanted to start and create media that starts from

601
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 5: the place of this phenomenon is real, first of all,

602
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 5: what could it be and what could it mean about

603
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 5: the nature of our reality, so that we can start

604
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 5: having these larger conversations, you know, not just about the

605
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 5: UFO phenomenon, but about anomalist experiences of all kinds consciousness,

606
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 5: you know, all of these kind of groundbreaking things that

607
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 5: we're learning about ourselves and about the world in a

608
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 5: way that's approachable and for people who are newer to

609
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 5: the topic, you know, but also treats people intelligently. I

610
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 5: think that there is a real dearth of like intelligent

611
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 5: media out there, and that people enjoy being spoken to

612
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 5: like their adults. Listen. There are a lot of people,

613
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 5: like you said, who are no way close to even

614
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 5: considering any of this to be real, and a lot

615
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 5: of them may never but there's also this kind of

616
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 5: growing community of people who do recognize that this is

617
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 5: real and are ready to kind of move the conversation

618
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 5: forward and talk about this in a more nuanced and

619
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 5: complex way. And they don't care what mcwest and the

620
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:30,480
Speaker 5: skeptics think. They want to have a different kind of conversation,

621
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 5: and so we're just really trying to carve out a

622
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 5: space for that to happen through our media, and so

623
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 5: we're really excited. Our docu series should be out by

624
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 5: the end of the summer, and it's three episodes and

625
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 5: it'll be available on Amazon Prime and Apple TV.

626
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 1: That's going to be awesome. I think what do we

627
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:49,480
Speaker 1: do about it now is a great angle. You're not

628
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 1: dumbing it down for the lowest common denominator. You're already

629
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 1: accepting the premise that this something is happening, and what

630
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:56,959
Speaker 1: are we going to do about it? I think that

631
00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:00,280
Speaker 1: is fantastic. You've got some really incredible people that have

632
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:01,720
Speaker 1: been working on this right.

633
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 5: Whitley Strieber, Diana Pasolka, Jeff Kreipel, Mike masters, Io Whiteley,

634
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 5: Alex Dietrich. Also some like newer names in the field.

635
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 5: So people who are familiar with my podcast, there's doctor

636
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 5: James Madden, who just wrote Unidentified Flying hyper Object, which

637
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 5: is actually the first book that we published through our

638
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 5: production company. He's a philosopher. There's a really fantastic researcher

639
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 5: named Daniel Elizondo who wrote Loose Threads and has a

640
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 5: book coming out. So we wanted to both like kind

641
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 5: of go to the top experts in the field and

642
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 5: also this kind of new emerging group of experts because

643
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 5: there is kind of like a new generation kind of

644
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 5: coming up through the ranks that we're really excited to

645
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 5: kind of give a platform too as well. But we

646
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,959
Speaker 5: really wanted to make it credible, make it based as

647
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:51,959
Speaker 5: much as we can, and like science and peer reviewed work,

648
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 5: and so yeah, we're really really excited to show it

649
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 5: to you.

650
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 1: I love that approach, and we do need new young

651
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 1: blood in this One of the problems in this community, unfortunately,

652
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 1: is most of these guys are aging out. A lot

653
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 1: of these incredible researchers are retiring. They're moving on from

654
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 1: this and that's we need some new blood, which is

655
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 1: really great that you're working on that. You also mentioned

656
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 1: your podcast, UFO rabbit Hole podcast. I believe I heard

657
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:18,280
Speaker 1: a rumor that that's going to morph into something new.

658
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 5: Once the docuseries comes out. My podcast is kind of evolving.

659
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 5: I want to be able to have bigger conversations and

660
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 5: bring in more and more people. And also, you know,

661
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 5: when you make of like three episode docuseries, you can't

662
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 5: say nearly everything that you want to say. We want

663
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 5: to use the podcast as kind of a way to

664
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 5: continue the conversation and sort of double click into some

665
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:42,320
Speaker 5: of the more complex issues that maybe you can't handle

666
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 5: in like a six minute segment in a television show.

667
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:47,279
Speaker 5: The UFO rabbit Hole is going to be evolving and

668
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:51,359
Speaker 5: becoming the beyond. My co host will be Ja Christopher King,

669
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 5: who's the director of the docuseries. And then he's also

670
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 5: somebody who's contributed a ton to the field in his

671
00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:00,160
Speaker 5: own right. He is one of the co founders of

672
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:02,360
Speaker 5: the Experiencer Group, and he also is one of the

673
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:05,800
Speaker 5: co founders of the Incredible and Quire Anomalist conference series

674
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:07,400
Speaker 5: has been going on for the last few years in

675
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:09,839
Speaker 5: New York City. He's somebody that has become a really

676
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:12,239
Speaker 5: good friend and somebody that I really enjoyed collaborating with.

677
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:16,719
Speaker 5: We're excited to kind of grow this docuseries not just

678
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 5: as just kind of the seed that we're planting, and

679
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:22,280
Speaker 5: we're hoping to grow kind of a larger ecosystem around

680
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,880
Speaker 5: the docuseries, or we're having kind of larger conversations about

681
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:29,719
Speaker 5: this topic that you know, acknowledge the disclosure movement and

682
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:32,080
Speaker 5: all of that, but also we're kind of going beyond

683
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:34,760
Speaker 5: those narratives which I we called it that and talking

684
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 5: about the full spectrum of what this phenomenon involves. And yeah,

685
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 5: we're super excited to get started on that.

686
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:43,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's great. Yet we know Jay of course here,

687
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:46,279
Speaker 1: Jay's part of our contact in the Desert is are

688
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:48,719
Speaker 1: you in a sense? But Jay has the experiencial group

689
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:51,800
Speaker 1: that we have implemented and incorporated into the contact in

690
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,279
Speaker 1: the Desert event. I always wonder this when I talk

691
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 1: to people in this field, but you are the one

692
00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 1: I really want to ask, which books would you recom

693
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 1: on this subject and what are the must reads that

694
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:04,239
Speaker 1: you feel are the most important?

695
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:06,440
Speaker 5: Oh, my gosh. I love this question because I love

696
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:08,399
Speaker 5: books so much. Like I said, I think people need

697
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:10,239
Speaker 5: to go back to the beginning. Like I think that

698
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 5: there's a lot of really great books that have been

699
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 5: released recently. I think, you know, Ross Coltheart's In Plain

700
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 5: Sight comes to mind, Diana Pasalka's American Cosmic, and I

701
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:21,360
Speaker 5: think that those things are really great in terms of

702
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:23,759
Speaker 5: getting a handle on what's going on right now. But

703
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:25,920
Speaker 5: I think you also need to go back to the

704
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:29,360
Speaker 5: beginning and kind of, you know, read things from before.

705
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:31,279
Speaker 5: One of my favorite books and the name escapes me

706
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:33,720
Speaker 5: and I'm so sorry about that, it's by Edward J. Rupelt,

707
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:36,799
Speaker 5: who was the original director of Project Blue Book, and

708
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 5: I think that reading that and kind of understanding the

709
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 5: roots of that program and the kinds of cases that

710
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 5: they were looking at, and also problems that they were

711
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 5: running up against and the resources that they were not

712
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:51,160
Speaker 5: given and helps to really paint the picture of where

713
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 5: we are today, because not much is change, to be honest.

714
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 5: And I also think going back and reading I always

715
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:59,719
Speaker 5: recommend Jacques Vallet and John Keel. There's a lot of

716
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 5: lip service given to both of those thinkers in this field,

717
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 5: and I don't think a lot of people actually read them.

718
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 5: And you know, everybody talks about like the Mothman prophecies

719
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 5: or like Passport to Magonia. But I think you've got

720
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,719
Speaker 5: to go deeper. With Valet, I always recommend Messengers of

721
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 5: Deception and The Invisible College. With Keel, I really recommend

722
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 5: Operation Trojan Horse in the Eighth Tower. Once you kind

723
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 5: of get your feet wet, don't be afraid to get

724
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 5: into the experience or stuff like read David Jacobs, read

725
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:25,959
Speaker 5: John Mack.

726
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:27,880
Speaker 1: Those are my two. Those are the two on the

727
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 1: top of my list right there.

728
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:31,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, I know those are those are probably the two best.

729
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:34,439
Speaker 5: And I think, you know, don't be afraid to don't

730
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 5: be afraid to go into that side of it as well,

731
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:39,799
Speaker 5: because I think that it's incredibly critical to understand what

732
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 5: experiencers are encountering for us to get a holistic view

733
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:45,319
Speaker 5: of the phenomenon.

734
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:47,360
Speaker 1: And then then you were going to say which podcast

735
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:49,880
Speaker 1: you recommended that's available on the iHeartRadio on Coast to

736
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 1: Coast am Paranormal podcast, which is.

737
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:54,800
Speaker 5: Beyond context see favorite. See.

738
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:56,840
Speaker 1: I just wanted to clarify that to make sure that

739
00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 1: everybody knew right where to go for that information, Kelly,

740
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:02,799
Speaker 1: It's a real pleasure. Where can people find you online?

741
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 5: The easiest place to find me is at UFO rabbit

742
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:09,520
Speaker 5: hole dot com. You can find head of Everything there.

743
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 5: You can find me on Twitter, also at UFO Underscore

744
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:16,920
Speaker 5: rabbit Underscore a Hole. The podcast is available wherever you

745
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:18,920
Speaker 5: listen to podcasts. It's on basically every platform.

746
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:21,239
Speaker 1: Awesome, thanks Kelly. I really really enjoyed this. It was

747
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:22,799
Speaker 1: a lot of fun. I can imagine you and I

748
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 1: doing this for about seven hours. Okay, everyone, thank you

749
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:27,759
Speaker 1: for listening to Beyond Contact. We will be back next

750
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 1: week with an all new episode. You can follow me

751
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:34,759
Speaker 1: Captain Ron on Twitter and Instagram at CID Underscore Captain Ron.

752
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:38,760
Speaker 1: Stay connected by checking out Contact intheesert dot com. Stay

753
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 1: open minded and rational as we explore the unknown right

754
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:45,239
Speaker 1: here on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast am Paranormal

755
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 1: Podcast Network.

756
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:57,759
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Ghost

757
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:00,799
Speaker 2: Day and Paranormal Podcast Network. Makes ure and check out

758
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 2: all our shows on the iHeartRadio app or by going

759
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 2: to iHeartRadio dot com.

760
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 4: M