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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds, and Republicans want to raise the retirement

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Speaker 1: age to seven day. We have a jam packed show. Today,

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Speaker 1: Senator Tammy Baldwin talks with us about the next steps

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Speaker 1: in expanding healthcare in America. Then Yahoo Knew senior correspondent

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Speaker 1: Michael Weiss will fill us in on the implications of

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Speaker 1: Biden's sending tanks to Ukraine. But first we have the

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Speaker 1: Daily Beast congressional reporter Sam Brody. Welcome to Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: Sam Brodi, thank you, Thank you. Great to be back.

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Speaker 1: What the fund is happening in Congress? This is the

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Speaker 1: kind of thing they ask on NPR all the time,

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Speaker 1: What the funk? But I want to talk about a

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Speaker 1: photo that I saw yesterday, Representative Corey Mills from Florida,

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Speaker 1: of course, passing out grenades to House members. It has

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Speaker 1: a little elephant on it. What the fund is happening? Man,

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Speaker 1: It's it's not a live grenade, so it's really it's

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Speaker 1: really fine. No. I saw that and it was like,

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Speaker 1: there's a metaphor here somewhere, and maybe when it comes

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Speaker 1: to the debt limit later on, we'll look back on

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Speaker 1: this grenade moment as as something you know, symbolically pointed.

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Speaker 1: I think the grenade thing is actually such a perfect

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Speaker 1: encapsulation of how the House Republican conference has changed. And

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Speaker 1: I want to maybe take a beat to fill in

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Speaker 1: folks about this guy, Corey Mills, who was just elected

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Speaker 1: to a Republican House seat in central Florida. He's part

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Speaker 1: of this new crop of members who kind of came

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Speaker 1: on my radar last year as the elections and primaries

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Speaker 1: were happening, like folks who were sort of going to

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Speaker 1: join the expanded like Marjorie Taylor Green wing of the

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Speaker 1: Republican Party. So you mean complete lunatives, Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: like for example, So this guy, his sort of back

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Speaker 1: story I think is super interesting in terms of like

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Speaker 1: the kind of person now that's elected to Congress from

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Speaker 1: the Republican Party. His claim to fame is that he

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Speaker 1: runs a business that manufactures police munitions specifically yeah, well

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Speaker 1: tear gas, tear gas, rubber bullets, things like that. And

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Speaker 1: this is something that he ran on like in his primary,

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Speaker 1: and he did an ad where he like you know,

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Speaker 1: basically ran footage of like Black Lives Matter protesters and

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Speaker 1: pressed getting tear gas, and he was like, you know,

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Speaker 1: this was supposed to be a reason to vote for him.

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Speaker 1: And he had this joke about if you and the

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Speaker 1: media don't like it, like I'll make you cry in

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Speaker 1: a different way. And it's like cuts to people being

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Speaker 1: tear gas. So that's this guy's background. He was elected

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Speaker 1: to Congress. He seems great because nothing funnier than using

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Speaker 1: violence against people protesting. Yeah, then yeah, then tear gassing people.

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Speaker 1: It's it's super funny. And I think in the past,

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Speaker 1: or even maybe now, you had members who kind of

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Speaker 1: lead the role of like the Republican culture warrior, but

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Speaker 1: didn't come from that, and they had boring jobs before

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Speaker 1: being elected to Congress, like being a lawyer, a state lawmaker,

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Speaker 1: or a dentist. And now you have people like like

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Speaker 1: Quarry Mills who are like, no, his job was to

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Speaker 1: make to your gas um And now he's in Congress.

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Speaker 1: He sounds like a great, great candidate. I'm sure he's

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Speaker 1: not going to default on the dead and cause American

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Speaker 1: credit to plummet and ruin our economy. So I want

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Speaker 1: to ask you who else is in this MAGA crew? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's an expanded crew. And I think the McCarthy vote

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Speaker 1: actually changed the way that I thought about this. So

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Speaker 1: there there was a set of like Courty Most for example,

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Speaker 1: comes in and he was a reliable supporter of Kevin McCarthy,

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Speaker 1: vote for kevincarthy on on every ballot. And then there

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Speaker 1: were there were people in the more I think, like

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Speaker 1: obvious Auntie McCarthy camp in this kind of new crop

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Speaker 1: of of MAGA representatives. So Anna Paulina loon U also

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Speaker 1: from Florida. That's going to be recurring being here is Florida.

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Speaker 1: But because he Luna like a true MAGA influencer before

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Speaker 1: she got to Congress, and she right turn us a

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Speaker 1: type right precisely voted against McCarthy. This guy Andy Ogules,

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Speaker 1: who is from Tennessee and also I mean he was

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Speaker 1: like a county executive but also used like really I

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Speaker 1: mean crazy rhetoric around January six and has put out

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Speaker 1: there that the Dobbs decision meant that Congress needed to

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Speaker 1: take action, you know, restricting gay marriage like stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: He also was anti McCarthy. But there is kind of

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Speaker 1: interesting stuff like this guy Eli Crane from Arizona freshman

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Speaker 1: not really on anyone's radar at all. Like super Conservative

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Speaker 1: actually flipped the district that was held by a Democrat

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Speaker 1: and he came out of nowhere and voted against McCarthy

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Speaker 1: every single ballot. Why that is something that people on

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Speaker 1: the Hill have have tried to figure out. And the

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Speaker 1: weird thing is McCarthy like spent believe to elect this guy.

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Speaker 1: His pack spent almost a million dollars to help him win,

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Speaker 1: and then he gets to Congress and you know, is

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Speaker 1: making life very difficult for Kevin McCarthy. The best answer

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Speaker 1: that anyone has really seemed to come up with was

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Speaker 1: that he sort of promised his constituents that he would

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Speaker 1: support new leadership in Washington and he actually stuck to

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Speaker 1: that instead of a lot of people who say that

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Speaker 1: and then get to Washington and go, Okay, well I'm

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Speaker 1: just gonna I'm just gonna do whatever. And so the

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Speaker 1: dude just decided to, yeah, make his first move, really

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Speaker 1: pissing off the leader of his party. So interesting place.

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Speaker 1: We'll see, We'll see what happens for him. What's interesting

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Speaker 1: in my mind is that a lot of these people

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Speaker 1: piste off McCarthy, didn't vote for him, and then we

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Speaker 1: have a situation where McCarthy made of these committees are

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Speaker 1: actually Freedom Caucus guys. He rewarded them for voting against

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Speaker 1: him exactly he did, you know, there was there was

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Speaker 1: a lot of kind of speculation about, like we're are

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Speaker 1: people like Matt Gates or others asking for like specific

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Speaker 1: committee assignments like I want the gabble on this subcommittee,

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Speaker 1: which is like essentially amounting to blackmail, like I'm not

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Speaker 1: going to vote for you until you give me like

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Speaker 1: this shiny thing that I want as for myself as

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Speaker 1: opposed to like broader rules changes. But it's really remarkable

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Speaker 1: now that we see the committee assignments what McCarthy gave up.

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Speaker 1: He clearly gave up a lot, and clearly he did

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Speaker 1: in fact do that, but he also gave people like

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Speaker 1: Negates never voted for him. Mcate's only ever voted present

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Speaker 1: at the end. I mean, everybody got everything they wanted

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Speaker 1: except the people who told the line and did what

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Speaker 1: McCarthy asked. Yeah, status quot for them, and the people

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Speaker 1: who held out. I mean, if you're trying to rein

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Speaker 1: in this group, I don't know how anyone who saw

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Speaker 1: what happened with McCarthy now goes we'll all be rewarded

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Speaker 1: for telling the line. We'll see how the Congress plays out.

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Speaker 1: But I mean, you look at the Rules Committee, which

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Speaker 1: is an insanely powerful committee on the Hill. They are

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Speaker 1: the gatekeepers to what gets on the floor. You put

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Speaker 1: Tom Massey on that, You put Tom Masthy on that,

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Speaker 1: on that committee, I mean you have you have three

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Speaker 1: Freedom Caucus members now at the table, three Freedom Caucus

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Speaker 1: members and Tom Massey, who is I want to just

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Speaker 1: explain this for the people who are like, you know,

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Speaker 1: my dad, who was very politically knowledgeable but doesn't maybe

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Speaker 1: know who Tom Massey is. He is a libertarian and

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Speaker 1: he's been known as sort of Mr No. He votes

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Speaker 1: no on basically every bill, right he even didn't he

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Speaker 1: vote no on disaster relief for his own state in

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Speaker 1: order to sort of prove a point. Oh yeah, he's

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Speaker 1: voted on Yeah, he's voted no on every disaster lea thing.

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Speaker 1: The House passed by a vote of four one this week,

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Speaker 1: a resolution expressing solidarity with the protesters in Iran. So,

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Speaker 1: I mean that guy's in the Rules Committee. I mean,

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Speaker 1: how does that work? Explain to me? Because doesn't rules

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Speaker 1: set everything up for the whole Congress basic. I mean,

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Speaker 1: so obviously the committees can can endvance legislation, but it's

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Speaker 1: up to rules to decide how and when and in

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Speaker 1: what form they get to the floor. I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: insanely influential, and it has long had a reputation as

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Speaker 1: the collection of members who are closest to the leadership.

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Speaker 1: It is the Leadership Committee. They're the literal gatekeepers for

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Speaker 1: what gets onto the floor, and a lot of the

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Speaker 1: times Rules can be sort of a venue for fights

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Speaker 1: that may play out in the broader Congress about various bills.

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Speaker 1: And it's this like freewheeling committee and they don't really

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Speaker 1: have rules on time limit for speaking. They just kind

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Speaker 1: of do their thing and and debate and do whatever.

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Speaker 1: And so the idea behind for the Freedom Conx people

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Speaker 1: getting more of their people on this committee was that

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Speaker 1: they could essentially exercise something close to a veto power

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Speaker 1: on bills before they even get to the floor. Now,

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Speaker 1: the McCarthy people say, well, we put all these guys

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Speaker 1: on the committee, which means, know, we'll keep the fighting

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Speaker 1: limited to that committee. If it gets out of rules,

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Speaker 1: it means it can pass in the in the broader

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Speaker 1: in the broader Congress. But I think that's a really

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Speaker 1: sunny way to view this when you put a guy

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Speaker 1: on that committee who votes no literally on everything, and

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Speaker 1: Matthew has said, oh, you know, I know that people

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Speaker 1: are gonna have different views on bills than me, and

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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna hold everything up. But it's uncharted territory.

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Speaker 1: It really is. I don't know how this helps McCarthy.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it almost feels like McCarthy is setting himself up.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to ask this question to you because I

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Speaker 1: feel like this is important. One of the things you

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Speaker 1: could love or you could hate Nancy Pelosi, but it

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Speaker 1: feels like Nancy Pelosi is really like Kevin McCarthy has

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Speaker 1: shown why Nancy Pelosi in a million different ways, like

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Speaker 1: this is not the same at all. But there were

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Speaker 1: Democrats who were I mean, Democratic Party is a big

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Speaker 1: ten party with a lot of people with a lot

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Speaker 1: of different ideas. But there were Democratic Congress people who

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Speaker 1: had very different ideas than Nancy Pelosi in many many ways.

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Speaker 1: But those people were not able to hold up a

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Speaker 1: leadership vote. And you know, the people who crossed her

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Speaker 1: were punished. That's right, and it's so hard to compare

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Speaker 1: because McCarthy, at least for now, has proven himself to

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Speaker 1: be a relatively weak leader, and we're comparing him to

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Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi, who's probably just in terms of like raw power,

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Speaker 1: the strongest and most effective congressional leader of modern times.

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Speaker 1: I mean, she the top fundraiser. I mean, she controlled

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Speaker 1: the campaign apparatus. It was understood that if you crossed her,

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Speaker 1: it was not going to end up well for you,

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Speaker 1: and that enabled Democrats to, at various points the first

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Speaker 1: time she was Speaker and the second time to get

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Speaker 1: a ton of stuff done because she could keep everyone together.

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Speaker 1: But I also think it's important to note, like this

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Speaker 1: kind of stuff piste Democrats off all the time. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I cannot tell you the amount of grumbling that I

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Speaker 1: heard from Democrats over the Pelosi Here's who Like, we're

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Speaker 1: obviously admiring of her and her abilities and her ability

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Speaker 1: to with votes and get stuff done, but like the

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Speaker 1: legislative process was so isolated in her hands basically, and

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Speaker 1: they felt that they even committee chairs were like, I'm

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Speaker 1: basically irrelevant, you know. And occasionally this blew up over

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Speaker 1: the past couple of years where chairs would you know,

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Speaker 1: just totally vent to the media about how how little

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Speaker 1: power they felt they had, and so you know, McCarthy

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Speaker 1: is gonna try something different, and to be honest with you,

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Speaker 1: like some of these changes that he's made. This is

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Speaker 1: gonna get super nerdy, but I do think it's kind

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Speaker 1: of interesting. For the first time ever in the last

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Speaker 1: six years, I believe the House is doing open amendments.

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Speaker 1: That means, like anybody can file an amendment and get

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Speaker 1: to vote on it. This is not really super good

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Speaker 1: for McCarthy because Democrats can file amendments on bills and

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Speaker 1: give themselves influence on what happens on the floor. This

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Speaker 1: is not something that Nancy closely allowed. She did not

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Speaker 1: allow it for a reason. But McCarthy made this move

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Speaker 1: because his members are clamoring for it. It could help Democrats,

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Speaker 1: but he's like, all right, I'm gonna have to roll

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Speaker 1: with this idea of making the House more decentralized. It

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Speaker 1: may sound good right now, it may make everyone feel

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Speaker 1: kind of happy, but it's gonna be a real test

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Speaker 1: to see if they can do much of anything in

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Speaker 1: any time with these changes. I mean, it's just sort

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Speaker 1: of ridiculous. Now, talk to me about those California Senate race.

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Speaker 1: The California Sentate race is gonna be It's gonna be crazy. Uh,

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Speaker 1: I mean, who's in already? So Adam Schiff and Katie

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Speaker 1: Porter are in officially. I imagine these folks will be

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Speaker 1: very familiar to your listeners. Yes, potentially getting into. Likely

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Speaker 1: getting in is Barbara Lee, who is a longtime congresswoman

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Speaker 1: from Oakland and Berkeley up in the Bay Area, and

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Speaker 1: she's told colleagues that she's getting in, and I understand

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Speaker 1: it's kind of all all but a formality that she's

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Speaker 1: going to get in. It's just a question of timing.

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Speaker 1: I think those are going to be the heavy hitters

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Speaker 1: from the field. Rocana had been mentioned as a candidate.

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Speaker 1: The Cars, also from the Bay Area. Yeah, he's been

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Speaker 1: on this podcast a bunch of times. I since it.

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Speaker 1: He probably is not going to do it. He's kind

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Speaker 1: of said publicly that he was going to wait on

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Speaker 1: what Barbarly did, and if she runs, I think it's

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Speaker 1: unlikely that he runs. Those are three really heavy hitters.

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Speaker 1: Barbaraly is not as widely known, but she's like an

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Speaker 1: institution in Congress. She was the lone person to vote

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Speaker 1: against the a U m F authorizing like the War

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Speaker 1: on Terror after nine eleven. I mean, she's you know,

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Speaker 1: she's as progressive as they come. So like these candidates

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Speaker 1: aren't going to be that different. It's really vibes, you know,

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Speaker 1: what they choose to focus on, what their brands are.

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Speaker 1: I want to ask you one question explained to me,

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Speaker 1: Diefy is still toying with running again. No, there's been

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Speaker 1: reporting out there about people sometimes go up to Dify

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Speaker 1: and ask her stuff in the halls, and she'll give

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Speaker 1: the answer that she gives, and oftentimes her staff comes

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Speaker 1: into play queen up or whatever and clarify whatever it

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Speaker 1: is that she she just said. No, I don't think

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Speaker 1: anyone is realistically entertaining the idea that that she runs again.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's just not going to happen. I do

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Speaker 1: think what is happening is that she feels that, you know,

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Speaker 1: she has earned the right to go out on her

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Speaker 1: own terms, and she's an institution, she's a legend in politics,

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Speaker 1: and you know that she doesn't want to feel rushed

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Speaker 1: in making the announcement. Yet people are not waiting for her,

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Speaker 1: obviously to make that call. But I don't think anyone

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Speaker 1: is seriously like, oh, you know, she she might run again,

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Speaker 1: and she's you know, it was reported that she she

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Speaker 1: said she might make the decision next year. But I

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Speaker 1: think it's worth noting that the filing deadline for this

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Speaker 1: race is this year. It's December, so we will know

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Speaker 1: what other Senate races are you watching? Well, I think

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Speaker 1: the California thing, just to make one point, is like,

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Speaker 1: obviously this is gonna be a Democratic seat, but it's

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Speaker 1: going to suck a lot of Democratic money, it's going

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Speaker 1: to produce a progressive Democrat. And so there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of other states where I mean, you know, the Democratic

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Speaker 1: map in is terrible, it's absolutely terrible. Their defending seats

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Speaker 1: in West Virginia, Montana, Ohio, and then also trying to

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Speaker 1: win in Arizona, Michigan, Pennsylvania. These are these are difficult

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Speaker 1: states to win. So Democrats did win in Arizona and Pennsylvania,

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Speaker 1: that's correct, and I think they would be favored to

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Speaker 1: win these states again. But these are hard These are

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Speaker 1: hard states. They're just always difficult states, right, But you're

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Speaker 1: gonna need a Donald Trump to help with candidate picking.

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Speaker 1: That's the secret to democratic success. Right. Well, so here's

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Speaker 1: I guess a couple of just a few brief points

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Speaker 1: to make about I think something to watch as we

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Speaker 1: kind of get into the who starts to run phase

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Speaker 1: of the of the campaigns. The new chair of the

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Speaker 1: Republican Senate campaign, arm Steve Gaines from Montana, is basically

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Speaker 1: he's not explicitly said this, but their goal is to

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Speaker 1: prevent a rerun of two where Washington Republicans saw these

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Speaker 1: candidates emerge out of Republican primaries like wake masters, you know,

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Speaker 1: who are not going to win. But they were like,

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Speaker 1: the voters decide this is great, and of course this

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Speaker 1: happen to be the people that Trump liked. Now they

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Speaker 1: are not ruling out meddling in some of these primaries

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Speaker 1: to produce candidates that are going to stand a chance

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Speaker 1: of winning. Good luck to them. This is going to

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Speaker 1: be The question is, like the Republican establishment and operative

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Speaker 1: class is eager to apply the lessons from two? Are

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Speaker 1: voters in the Republican Party going to apply the lessons

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Speaker 1: from No? The RNC is having a bit of a

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Speaker 1: leadership fight. Explained to our listeners what's happening there? Because

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Speaker 1: it is fucked up. It is really crazy, and I

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Speaker 1: think it's been remarked that for a post that is

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Speaker 1: increasingly unimportant in politics, Yeah, and largely superficial, largely superficial.

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Speaker 1: And I was going to say ceremonial, largely ceremonial. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean it is. It's it's less and less and

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Speaker 1: less important now. And Rono McDaniel is is probably going

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Speaker 1: to and I don't want to say that she's you know,

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Speaker 1: but she's she's tagged as the free Yet it's become

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Speaker 1: this kind of weird airing of various grievances and kind

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Speaker 1: of a proxy war. Again, not so, it's it is

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Speaker 1: truly a ViBe's race, right, a proxy war of De

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Speaker 1: Santis versus Trump. But one of the candidates is pro

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Speaker 1: Trump and is being supported by De Santis, right exactly.

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Speaker 1: That's what makes it so weird and honestly makes it

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Speaker 1: a little instructive, is how the dynamics could go should

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Speaker 1: Trump in De Santis be competing with each other, and

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Speaker 1: there's all these like cross wires of loyalties, and I

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Speaker 1: think De Santis backing Dylan is probably a reflection of

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Speaker 1: him wanting to differentiate himself from Trump a little bit.

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Speaker 1: But these people all come from the same sort of bucket, right.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Dylan is saying that there needs to be

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Speaker 1: a change in leadership, and this is a leadership that

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Speaker 1: has not brought wins for for the Republican Party. Yet

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Speaker 1: they continue to kind of center around Donald Trump, who

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Speaker 1: is the reason that Republicans are one of the big

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Speaker 1: reasons that Republicans did so poorly inwo I think the

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Speaker 1: key thing is is that there isn't an actual discussion

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Speaker 1: that seems to be happening about what this race is

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Speaker 1: about and what the Republican Party needs to be doing better.

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Speaker 1: They just think that they need to be winning more,

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Speaker 1: which is of course sure, but there there doesn't seem

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Speaker 1: to be a real discussion about how they're going to

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Speaker 1: do that, and instead, you know, they're flinging up oh

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Speaker 1: each other, and you know, Mike Lindell is involved for

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Speaker 1: some reason that no one really knows. Always happy to

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Speaker 1: saint Michael Lindell involved in something. It's a fillow fight.

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Speaker 1: So Sam Brodie, thanks so much. I hope you'll come back, Yes, anytime, anytime.

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Speaker 1: Tammy Baldwin is a junior senator from Wisconsin. Welcome to

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Speaker 1: Fast Politics, Senator Tammy Baldwin. I'm delighted to join you. Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm delighted to have you, and I was thinking the

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Speaker 1: first thing I wanted to ask you was like, just

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Speaker 1: do a victory lap for codifying same sex marriage. Please. Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: You know, I had so many journalists coming up to

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Speaker 1: me during the course of those negotiations saying, do you

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Speaker 1: really think you could do this? I mean, this would

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Speaker 1: be unheard of just less than a decade ago, and

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Speaker 1: I'm like, I really feel like this is within our reach.

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Speaker 1: But what I will say is since it passed, since

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Speaker 1: the President signed it into law, the responses I've gotten

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Speaker 1: from people impacted, almost to a one, people who well

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Speaker 1: up with tears and talk about what this means to them,

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Speaker 1: and you know, the running the whole gamut. From a

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Speaker 1: young person who said, this is the first time I've

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Speaker 1: ever felt seen by the federal government, and another who

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Speaker 1: is a dear friend who had some really scary health

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Speaker 1: news that he shared with me, and he said, you know,

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Speaker 1: I hope I'm gonna I hope I'm going to overcome this,

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Speaker 1: but just knowing that if I don't, my husband is

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Speaker 1: going to be able to inherit stuff that, yeah, you

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Speaker 1: really is how important this is? It was a big deal,

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Speaker 1: so victory lap. Yeah. I mean, really it's funny because

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Speaker 1: it's like, when it was going on, I thought, this

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Speaker 1: is nice, but it's not. They're never gonna be able

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Speaker 1: to do it, you know. I just thought because and

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Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you this question, which was Democrats

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Speaker 1: were unable. And I don't even want to say democrats

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Speaker 1: because I actually don't think ROW is a democratic as you.

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Speaker 1: I actually think it's like same sex marriage, that it's

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Speaker 1: like a just see people issue, but didn't even get

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Speaker 1: close to being codified, that's right. I'm very involved in that. Also.

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Speaker 1: I'm the co lead on the Women's Health Protection Act,

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Speaker 1: which codifies ROW and takes the additional necessary stuff of

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Speaker 1: telling states they can't undermine it so that it's you know,

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Speaker 1: hollow and meaningless. What was happening even before the Supreme

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Speaker 1: Court had overturned it, there were so many states that

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Speaker 1: had really so restricted the access to abortion care and

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Speaker 1: reproductive rights that that in essence, it didn't really exist

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Speaker 1: for so many But in any event, I do think

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Speaker 1: since there are now nearly or a little over a

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Speaker 1: million same sex married couples, I don't know how many

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Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands or millions of interracial couples there are.

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Speaker 1: But you know, this came up at a moment where

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Speaker 1: I can't imagine that I have any colleagues who don't

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Speaker 1: know a neighbor of fellow church goer, a person on

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Speaker 1: their staff, somebody you know at their grocery store who's

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Speaker 1: married to a same sex partner or in an interracial marriage.

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Speaker 1: And so it has that capacity of changing hearts and minds.

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Speaker 1: And while I would have liked to have seen a

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Speaker 1: few more Republican hearts and minds changed in the final total,

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Speaker 1: to have a dozen, you know got the job done.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you, do you think that there's

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Speaker 1: a chance that there will be a moment to be

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Speaker 1: able to codify ROW or do that ship sailed? Oh?

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Speaker 1: I certainly do, But if you're talking about, you know,

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Speaker 1: in the near term, I think that's very unlikely. I

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Speaker 1: reflect oftentimes of how long the opposition to ROW worked

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Speaker 1: to organize, to comment it from every angle, to try

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Speaker 1: to reverse it, and it took nearly fifty years. But

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Speaker 1: at this juncture they have succeeded. I don't think it's

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Speaker 1: going to take fifty years to restore comprehensive reproductive rights

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Speaker 1: in America. That said, it's certainly not going to happen overnight.

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Speaker 1: And I think about it in sort of two different ways.

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Speaker 1: One is my hail from the state of Wisconsin. Wisconsin

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Speaker 1: has the oldest criminal abortion statute in the country. It

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Speaker 1: was passed one year after we became a state in

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Speaker 1: eighteen forty nine. Yeah, no women in the legislature. In fact,

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Speaker 1: women couldn't even vote. You know, we're talking about a

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Speaker 1: state strategy as well as talking about a national strategy,

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Speaker 1: and we have to implement it. We only have fifty

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Speaker 1: one Democrats in the Senate, and we know currently that

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Speaker 1: two of them are unwilling to reform the filibuster, so

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Speaker 1: we don't get there this to your term, but you know,

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Speaker 1: we pick up some seats. Who knows you hail from

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Speaker 1: the state of Wisconsin, a state that we on this

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Speaker 1: podcast have talked a lot about, especially because your governor

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Speaker 1: got re elected by it's a very tight state Wisconsin.

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Speaker 1: I'm not telling you anything that you don't you're not

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Speaker 1: very aware of, but your your governor got re elected

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Speaker 1: by four points. Your other senator is Ron and On.

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Speaker 1: I mean, how how strange it is? People ask me

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Speaker 1: a lot this same electorate arguably has um interesting outcomes.

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Speaker 1: I mean, look also at the presidential race, Trump narrowly

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Speaker 1: one Wisconsin and Biden narrowly one Wisconsin, and who knows

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Speaker 1: what's going to happen in We are a closely divided state,

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Speaker 1: and that means on the electoral front, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: about turning out the vote. Do you have something you'd

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Speaker 1: like to tell me? I am widely expected to run.

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Speaker 1: I've got to get that announcement on the calendar soon

429
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:24,840
Speaker 1: because every then interview I do, it's like, well, this

430
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:29,239
Speaker 1: isn't how we plan to roll it out, all right,

431
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:33,639
Speaker 1: widely expected as a good line. I wanted to ask

432
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:37,639
Speaker 1: you about a legislation you're doing now in Wisconsin and

433
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:40,359
Speaker 1: this goes to Row. I mean, this goes to Row Hospitals.

434
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:42,919
Speaker 1: This goes to like really a thing that Americans are

435
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 1: struggling with, which is our healthcare costs, and you are

436
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:51,200
Speaker 1: working on an expansion legislation. Can you tell us a

437
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 1: little bit about that? Yes, So, probably the most critical

438
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,919
Speaker 1: and crucial time we've faced to remove any obstacle to

439
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:03,639
Speaker 1: getting healthcare coverage has been during a pandemic. We actually

440
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 1: took some really bold actions to significantly assist people who

441
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:13,399
Speaker 1: we're purchasing their health insurance through the Obamacare, through the

442
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 1: Affordable Care Act marketplace, So those were it's additional assistance,

443
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 1: and so far we've managed to have that assistance last

444
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:28,359
Speaker 1: for the next two years. However, I believe that this

445
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 1: should always be a goal. Obviously during UH deadly pandemic

446
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:36,400
Speaker 1: it's really super important, but it's super important every day

447
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:39,400
Speaker 1: for people to have access to affordable, high quality healthcare.

448
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 1: And so one of the things I'm doing with colleagues

449
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,960
Speaker 1: is introducing legislation that will make the supplement to help

450
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:49,160
Speaker 1: people pay for their premiums permanent. That will really help.

451
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,560
Speaker 1: We've seen just a significant increase, you know, in the

452
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:57,119
Speaker 1: millions among people who have secured healthcare in recent years,

453
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:00,080
Speaker 1: and of course there's so much more we have to do.

454
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 1: We're just preparing our hearing agenda for the Help Committee

455
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:09,119
Speaker 1: that I sit on, what does HELP stand for Health, Education,

456
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 1: Labor and Pensions. I've been a member of that committee

457
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:15,640
Speaker 1: since I joined the Senate, and um a lot more

458
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 1: that we can do to bring down costs. And by

459
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 1: the way, let's also do another victory lab While we're

460
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 1: talking about successes. Last year, in the Inflation Reduction Act

461
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,920
Speaker 1: for the first time, Medicare is going to be negotiating

462
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 1: with the big pharmaceutical companies to bring down prescription drug costs.

463
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 1: And if you're a senior on Medicare, there's a cap

464
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 1: on insulin. If that on insulin, Uh, you will pay

465
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:47,400
Speaker 1: no more than thirty five dollars out of pocket for insulin. Vaccines.

466
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:51,440
Speaker 1: Many many vaccines will now be free without any sort

467
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:55,159
Speaker 1: of co pay for people who are on Medicare. So

468
00:26:55,400 --> 00:27:00,880
Speaker 1: just uh, We've had some real breakthroughs in but more

469
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 1: needs to be done. I mean, I feel like insulin

470
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 1: is like one of the great scandals of our time

471
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 1: is that we have people in this country dying because

472
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:12,320
Speaker 1: they can't afford to get their insulin. Originally, this administration

473
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 1: really wanted and there was a big push for this

474
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:18,120
Speaker 1: idea of having thirty five insulin for everyone. I mean,

475
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:20,879
Speaker 1: does that seem anyway in the cards or now? I

476
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:23,640
Speaker 1: think it still could be. We came very close, but

477
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 1: we didn't have enough support from Republicans insane in order

478
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 1: to get it done. There was a vote in the

479
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 1: Senate on whether to extend it beyond the Medicare program.

480
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,879
Speaker 1: You know, Nearly a third of Americans are pre diabetic

481
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,920
Speaker 1: or diabetic, and that's a lot of people who will

482
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:46,400
Speaker 1: fly on insulin at some point in their lives. Insulin

483
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 1: has been around for over a hundred years. It's not

484
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 1: like the recipe changes, and it's not like the ingredients

485
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 1: have become more costly. It's like EpiPens exactly because they can't.

486
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,919
Speaker 1: No one can follow the dollars. You know, show me

487
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,359
Speaker 1: the money, show me where it goes. If you double

488
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 1: the price of an upping pen or of insulin, whose

489
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 1: pocket does that go into. We don't even know the

490
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:14,880
Speaker 1: answers to those questions. It's just so opaque. So, yes,

491
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 1: we have more we can do, and I think, especially

492
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 1: given with insulin in particular the numbers of families impacted

493
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,639
Speaker 1: by it, we need to leverage their voices to get

494
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,359
Speaker 1: my Republican colleagues working on this. So we do have

495
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 1: a couple of Republicans. Susan Collins worked hard to try

496
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:36,400
Speaker 1: to get an insulin bill, working closely with a number

497
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 1: of Democrats. But we need more of them. Yeah, I mean,

498
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 1: it seems like there's so many ways in much to

499
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 1: help working people that Republicans are not interested in. But

500
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 1: they still manage to get those votes. Yeah. Well, it's

501
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 1: easier to block things in Congress than it is to

502
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 1: pass them. And so especially in the United States Senate,

503
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 1: it can't run for a Senate as I have and

504
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 1: not be a hopeful person. You know, you got to

505
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 1: believe that this process can work. You know, we just

506
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 1: talked about a number of Mouthstone victories last year. I mean,

507
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 1: one of the things with the Obama administration that was

508
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 1: a complaint was that as much as they did a

509
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 1: lot of incredible stuff and Obama is amazing, obviously that

510
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 1: he had some trouble working with the Senate. And there's

511
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 1: a sort of quiet way in which the Biden administration

512
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 1: has actually passed a ton of legislation. Absolutely, And you know,

513
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 1: obviously both President Obama and President Biden were former senators,

514
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 1: but when he was Senator, Biden really was somebody who

515
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 1: understood every facet of how it works and how to

516
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 1: move things through and had hallmark legislation that he was

517
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 1: responsible for. So I do think that rubs off in

518
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 1: the administration. Do you have any faith that the Chips Act,

519
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 1: which is like the I'm one of the few people

520
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 1: who's interested in the Chips Act. So everyone has to

521
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 1: bear with me here, um, but that the Chips Act

522
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 1: could bring back manufacturing to the United States in a

523
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 1: way that we haven't seen a government pushed towards that,

524
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:09,959
Speaker 1: and that that could affect your state. Oh absolutely, And

525
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 1: I was really proud to work on putting together the

526
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 1: Chips and Science Act. I think the really key areas

527
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 1: in which it can bring jobs back to a state

528
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 1: like Wisconsin has to do with the supply chain piece

529
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 1: of it. We make things in Wisconsin. Still, we're one

530
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 1: of the leads states in manufacturing. Have nearly twenty percent

531
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 1: of our workforce is engaged in manufacturing. That's again that

532
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 1: makes us one of the leads in the country. And

533
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 1: yet we have been affected by the supply chain issues.

534
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 1: Where we might produce say agricultural equipment, but the microship,

535
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 1: the control panel is produced overseas, and so you see

536
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 1: you'll actually go to a company in Wisconsin like Coon,

537
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 1: where you'll see the farm impotence the outside the factory

538
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 1: ready to go accept they don't have a control panel

539
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 1: in them. And we see that across the board. So

540
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 1: when we use the Commerce Department to start identifying, well,

541
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 1: where are those gaps and it's not just microchips. There's

542
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 1: other supply chain issues. And then you start looking with

543
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 1: our deep knowledge of who makes what in Wisconsin and

544
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 1: across the country, it's like, well, maybe you could make

545
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 1: that component and grow your business, add to your list

546
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 1: of products, and fill in some of those gaps that

547
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 1: we have in our supply chain. You know, I know,

548
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 1: and some of our larger manufacturers in Wisconsin, they have suppliers,

549
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 1: hundreds of suppliers throughout the state, but you know, they

550
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:39,040
Speaker 1: could have just a handful that are from overseas and

551
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 1: it can stop up the whole works. So that's one

552
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 1: way in which I think the Chips and Science Act

553
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 1: is really going to help us bring back jobs. The

554
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 1: other thing is something that I've worked on for years

555
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:53,600
Speaker 1: and seeing more and more success, is just saying, if

556
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 1: we're going to spend taxpayer dollars to to make something,

557
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 1: to buy something, let's make sure that those dollars are

558
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 1: men to the US on us products and workers. And

559
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 1: it just seems like a no brainer to me. And

560
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 1: so I think the more we do in that regard,

561
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 1: the more we'll see good paying jobs come back. The

562
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 1: infrastructure built we got strong by American language in that

563
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 1: So we're not going to be using rebar that was

564
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 1: sourced out of the country in our infrastructure project. We're

565
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 1: gonna be making it here and employing more people. Tommy Baldwin.

566
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 1: I really appreciate you joining us. This was great. Thank

567
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 1: you so much. Thank you. I know you, our dear

568
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 1: listeners are very busy and you don't have time to

569
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 1: sort through the hundreds of pieces of pundentry each week.

570
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 1: And this is why every week I put together a

571
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 1: newsletter of my five favorite articles on politics. If you

572
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 1: enjoy the podcast, you will love having this in your

573
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 1: inbox every Friday. So sign up at Fast Politics pod

574
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 1: dot com and click the tab to join our mailing list.

575
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 1: That's Fast Politics pod dot m Michael Weiss is a

576
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 1: senior correspondent at Yahoo News. Welcome too, Fast Politics, Michael Weiss,

577
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:13,719
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me back, Molly. He explained to us,

578
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,000
Speaker 1: what the hell is happening in the war in Ukraine.

579
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 1: They're getting tanks. I mean that's kind of the top line,

580
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 1: isn't it. Um, Yeah, no, look it's uh Jesus. The

581
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 1: last month has been quite insane, even by Ukraine war standards.

582
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 1: Just trying to dig into the whole will they won't

583
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 1: they the German fandango about supplying their own model Leopard

584
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 1: two's or allowing other third party countries of which they're

585
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 1: over a dozen in Europe to supply Leopard twos to Ukraine.

586
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 1: If I had to sort of summarize the situation, it

587
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 1: was we did a bit of a drug deal with

588
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 1: the Germans. They kind of conditioned they're releasing of the

589
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 1: Leopards on our sending Abram's tanks to Ukraine, which is

590
00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 1: something we didn't want to do for a variety of reasons,

591
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 1: most of them logistical, nothing really anymore to do with

592
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 1: Putin and his phantom redlines. That argument seems to be

593
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 1: greatly diminished in this White House, much to my delight.

594
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:13,080
Speaker 1: But yeah, look, basically Schultz said, you first, perhaps he

595
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 1: thought America wouldn't do it. And if that's the case,

596
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 1: well Biden called his bluff, and now we're sending Abrams

597
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 1: tanks and this number that that's getting bandied about thirty one.

598
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:24,879
Speaker 1: I'm hearing from sources on the inside that actually, by

599
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 1: the time Abrams get to Ukraine, you can expect that

600
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 1: figure to grow, perhaps even exponentially, So it's not going

601
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 1: to be just thirty one tanks from US. It's going

602
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 1: to be more than that. And there's you know, recovery vehicles,

603
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 1: which are like tow trucks for these tanks. I mean,

604
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 1: these are massive, massive pieces of armor, and they require

605
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:44,800
Speaker 1: a lot of upkeep and maintenance, which is the reason

606
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 1: guys like Mark Hurtling are were very skeptical and in

607
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 1: fact resistant to the idea of sending them. Leopard two's

608
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:55,400
Speaker 1: more in abundance in Europe, easier to repair and maintain.

609
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 1: I mean to give you one example the Spanish today,

610
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:01,799
Speaker 1: and this is a so Shilists led Spanish government, which

611
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 1: is kind of remarkable. They've announced they're going to send

612
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 1: I think upwards of fifty Leopard twos to Ukraine. And

613
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 1: the problem with the Spanish tanks is that they've been

614
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:13,359
Speaker 1: sitting in warehouses and they've kind of fallen apart, so

615
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,400
Speaker 1: they need to be refurbished. But the Spanish seems to

616
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 1: think they can do that in a matter of weeks

617
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:20,360
Speaker 1: or months. To the bottom line, I mean, by the

618
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:23,839
Speaker 1: end of March, Ukraine will have its first fleet of

619
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:28,799
Speaker 1: Western tanks, which is necessary for combined arms maneuver, which

620
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:32,279
Speaker 1: is necessary for any major counter offensive, particularly one that

621
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:35,800
Speaker 1: they're going to try and undertake in the south, which

622
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 1: is largely steps, and you're gonna need heavy armor if

623
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,239
Speaker 1: you want to push the Russians back from areas like that.

624
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:44,319
Speaker 1: So the next item on the agenda from Ukraine is

625
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 1: going to be fighter jets of sixteens. They're they're gunning

626
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:50,399
Speaker 1: for an no pun intended. So here's my question. One

627
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:54,440
Speaker 1: of my kids is very into military, and so he

628
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:58,359
Speaker 1: has been explaining to me the problems with this scenario. Yeah,

629
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 1: and this is good because this is really one of

630
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:03,759
Speaker 1: the places I'm the weakest. But he explained to me

631
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:06,440
Speaker 1: that part that some of the problem here is that

632
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 1: now Ukraine has like a lot of different kinds of

633
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 1: tanks and that you then have to train people to

634
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 1: do these are not like driving escalade, they're like driving

635
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:23,240
Speaker 1: a real machine, and that you have to train people

636
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 1: to drive these different tanks, and also that the mechanism

637
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:31,239
Speaker 1: for taking care of these weapons is complicated. So can

638
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:33,560
Speaker 1: you talk to us about that problem? Yeah, I mean

639
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 1: to put it in kind of the simplest terms possible.

640
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:40,279
Speaker 1: You know, the Ukrainians are very well trained and very

641
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 1: kind of comfortable with Soviet era Russian made tanks and

642
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:48,279
Speaker 1: what they've been getting in abundance thus far is exactly that.

643
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:51,439
Speaker 1: You know, T seventy two's Morocco has sent a bunch

644
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 1: of these tanks, believe it or not. Other countries, former

645
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 1: Warsaw Pact nations poland Slovakia have sent the polls have

646
00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 1: been I think first among equals and ending heavy armor

647
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 1: from that period. But you know, there really is no

648
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:10,560
Speaker 1: comparison between these old Soviet relics and modern NATO standard tanks.

649
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:14,320
Speaker 1: So your son is right, Um, we're sending Challenger twos

650
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 1: which is the British model, Leopard two's which is the

651
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:19,879
Speaker 1: German model, and Abrams. I think it's it's the more

652
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 1: advanced model of the Abrams. I have to double check.

653
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 1: My my brain is very fatigued after the last two weeks.

654
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:27,879
Speaker 1: So yeah, driving one is not like driving the other.

655
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 1: Right there, they're they're fundamentally different platforms and you know

656
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:35,160
Speaker 1: all of the stuff that goes into keeping them operational.

657
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 1: One of the excuses the Biden administration was coming up

658
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:40,920
Speaker 1: with um for why they didn't want to send the

659
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:42,880
Speaker 1: Abrams is that they kept saying, oh, it runs on

660
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 1: jet fuel, even jet fuel the same fuel as everything. Well,

661
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 1: I mean, the ABRAMS actually is a multi fuel turbine engine,

662
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 1: so it can run on not just jet fuel but diesel.

663
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 1: But it doesn't get very good mileage to the gallant, right,

664
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 1: so it's it's a gas guzzler essentially. That that's the

665
00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 1: real argument to inst And you know, you could say, well,

666
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 1: the Americans wield these devices pretty well in in conventional war.

667
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 1: Why can't the Ukrainis I mean, yeah, but the Americans

668
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,960
Speaker 1: it took about ten years to become completely comfortable with

669
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 1: this new model of armor. So I mean, look, the

670
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 1: good news is this, if the last eleven months has

671
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 1: taught us anything in terms of security, assistance and military

672
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 1: absorption rates, the Ukrainians are fast learners because this is

673
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 1: an existential struggle for their very survival and the survival

674
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 1: of their nation state. They don't look at this as

675
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 1: something leisurely or they don't look at this is something

676
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:35,319
Speaker 1: that they can take their sweet time with. So if

677
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 1: you if you've read some of the reporting that's been

678
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:39,280
Speaker 1: done on, for instance, how they trained up on high

679
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 1: mars or self propelled, how it serves from Western NATO countries.

680
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:45,799
Speaker 1: If it's meant to take say eight weeks, they get

681
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:48,440
Speaker 1: it done in five. They don't take lunch breaks, they

682
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 1: don't sleep, they just want to learn because they're so

683
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:53,319
Speaker 1: eager to take the fight to the Russians. So that's

684
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:55,759
Speaker 1: not to say that we still don't face heavy challenges.

685
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:57,800
Speaker 1: And there's going to be a time delay between the

686
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:01,240
Speaker 1: announcement of these things and seeing the you know, blasting

687
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:05,959
Speaker 1: away in Herson or Donnettes. But I think people will

688
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 1: be pleasantly surprised by how quickly the Ukrainians adapt because again,

689
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 1: this is this is just precedent for them. But yeah, no,

690
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:14,440
Speaker 1: it's a big deal, and and the other the other

691
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:16,840
Speaker 1: side of this. Look, I mean, I don't claim any

692
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 1: particular expertise in the vagaries of German politics, but but

693
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 1: one thing I do know is that all of Schultz

694
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:25,280
Speaker 1: was not a guy who a foresaw this war coming

695
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:30,360
Speaker 1: be wanted to be a leader in European arms dealing

696
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:34,200
Speaker 1: or arms donating to Ukraine. His famous speech in the

697
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:39,319
Speaker 1: Bundestag on February, three days after Putin's invasion, was known

698
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:42,319
Speaker 1: as the Zeiten Vendor speech, where he said, Okay, we're

699
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:45,399
Speaker 1: entering a new phase of European history. Russia has shown

700
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:48,759
Speaker 1: itself to be this aggressive REVENTI just imperialist power that's

701
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:51,960
Speaker 1: going to park literally park tanks on European soil. We

702
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:54,879
Speaker 1: must increase our defense spending. Germany must get a house

703
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:56,480
Speaker 1: in order. And this is a very kind of robust,

704
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:59,839
Speaker 1: almost militaristic speech, very unusual for an heir to these

705
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 1: Social Democratic Party in Germany. But he was making this

706
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 1: speech with the assumption that Ukraine was going to fall

707
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:08,640
Speaker 1: and that Russian hegemony would would inch that much closer

708
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:12,360
Speaker 1: to Germany's own borders. Right, he was taken by surprise

709
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,040
Speaker 1: by the ferocity of Ukrainian resistance, and I think perhaps

710
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 1: also taken by surprise, given America's priors in the last

711
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 1: twenty years when it comes to warfare, both indirect and direct,

712
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:25,880
Speaker 1: that President Biden would be as bullish and as invested

713
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:28,319
Speaker 1: in Ukraine's victory as he was. So the real kind

714
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:32,319
Speaker 1: of unsung story of Germany in this war, I mean, well,

715
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 1: there are several, but to my mind is if you

716
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:37,359
Speaker 1: look at just the calculus of what Germany has sent

717
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:40,440
Speaker 1: in terms of material, heavy equipment, and I mean, you know,

718
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:44,480
Speaker 1: air defense systems, self propelled howitzer's, light arms, you name it,

719
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:46,239
Speaker 1: compared to what they were going to send as of

720
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 1: the beginning of the war, five thousand helmets. Remember that

721
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 1: it arguably eclipses even what the United Kingdom has sent Ukraine.

722
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 1: It is so staggering the numbers. The problem is the

723
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:57,960
Speaker 1: Germans don't want to take credit for it, and all

724
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:01,719
Speaker 1: of st and so disastrous in his public diplomacy that

725
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:05,160
Speaker 1: hardly anybody even within Germany knows this. So the Tank

726
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 1: issue was, this was this big sticking point. And you

727
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:11,799
Speaker 1: know what's ironic is given Schultz's ideological background, I mean

728
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:15,759
Speaker 1: as a as a teenager in the eighties growing up

729
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:18,320
Speaker 1: in in West Germany, I mean, he was he was

730
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:21,320
Speaker 1: very anti American. He was he was almost a fellow

731
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:24,600
Speaker 1: traveler in the Soviet Union, took several trips to East Germany.

732
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:27,480
Speaker 1: According to the Stasi files on him and his retinue,

733
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:31,480
Speaker 1: was advocating that the Soviets park nuclear weapons aimed at

734
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:34,239
Speaker 1: the United States in Europe. I mean it was. He

735
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:37,399
Speaker 1: was very much pro Moscow. And I think for him

736
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:39,880
Speaker 1: to say, well, I'm not doing anything till the Americans

737
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:42,959
Speaker 1: do it first, I read this kind of amusingly, as

738
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:46,400
Speaker 1: you know, a guy whose entire political career was premised

739
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 1: on less of of America in Europe is now deciding

740
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 1: in order to kind of save his own skin with

741
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:56,319
Speaker 1: respect to Germany's electorate and to to not be seen

742
00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:59,360
Speaker 1: to be antagonizing putin As as a you know, the

743
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 1: uber hall of European politics is basically crawling under back

744
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:08,080
Speaker 1: under the American security umbrella and asking for more American leadership,

745
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:11,319
Speaker 1: if not American hegemony. Um So, I find that very

746
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:14,399
Speaker 1: funny and very ironic, but I'll take it. And from

747
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:17,759
Speaker 1: the Ukrainian perspective, the importance about Abrams, even beyond the

748
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:21,840
Speaker 1: military capability, which is formidable and these are good tanks,

749
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 1: probably the best in the world, it's that this bespeaks

750
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:28,839
Speaker 1: a very long term investment in Ukraine, not just in

751
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 1: terms of a defensive capability kicking the Russians out and

752
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:36,319
Speaker 1: and you know, creating a sovereign, independent Ukraine, which by

753
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:40,279
Speaker 1: the way, includes occupied Crimea, includes the occupied territories of

754
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:43,759
Speaker 1: the Don boss As fifteen. But it's an investment in

755
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 1: Ukraine's post war future. This is a country that, I mean,

756
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:50,759
Speaker 1: unless things go horribly wrong for it in the coming year,

757
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 1: really is going to be an integral part of Europe.

758
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:57,439
Speaker 1: Will will eventually join the European Union. And now you're

759
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:01,360
Speaker 1: hearing people such as Henry Kissinger even come out and say, well,

760
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:04,319
Speaker 1: it certainly makes sense for them to join NATO after

761
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:06,839
Speaker 1: this is all done. So, I mean, this is an

762
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:12,600
Speaker 1: extraordinary one from where we found ourselves as of January.

763
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:15,240
Speaker 1: And that's why they think we'll get fighter jets next.

764
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:17,920
Speaker 1: I mean, F sixteens have been on they've been on

765
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 1: the table in terms of negotiating with the Americans for

766
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:22,759
Speaker 1: quite a while. And to be honest with you, I

767
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:25,720
Speaker 1: would class them at at slightly higher level than rumor

768
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:29,320
Speaker 1: that Ukrainian pilots or have already begun to be trained

769
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:31,920
Speaker 1: on these airframes. And again, this is a very long

770
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 1: term investment because F sixteens are not going to be

771
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:36,359
Speaker 1: in play in the next six months. They would be

772
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:40,759
Speaker 1: probably arriving if they got them within the next We're

773
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:43,640
Speaker 1: talking years, I think, So, you know, I mean, look,

774
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:47,279
Speaker 1: we we're building Ukraine and modernized army and doing it

775
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 1: for free. I mean, because they're in extremity, they're not

776
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:52,759
Speaker 1: paying for this stuff. And that's okay. I mean, because

777
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:54,520
Speaker 1: at the end of this, they're going to be one

778
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:59,960
Speaker 1: of the most militarily seasoned and equipped and formidable arm

779
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:02,480
Speaker 1: ME is in Europe, and that's just a good American

780
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:06,440
Speaker 1: investment in terms of international transatlantic security. Right, Okay, So

781
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:08,920
Speaker 1: I love you. I just want to know does this

782
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:11,759
Speaker 1: go on forever? I mean when does this ever? And

783
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:14,359
Speaker 1: I would be a fool if I sat here and said, right, so,

784
00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:18,279
Speaker 1: as of April of two thousand and twenty three, the

785
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 1: war will be over? Right, I don't know. I mean,

786
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:22,680
Speaker 1: nobody knows in war. So all I can say is

787
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:26,759
Speaker 1: the metrics that you would want to use to sort

788
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:31,640
Speaker 1: of make any kind of tentative forecast suggests that Ukraine

789
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:33,680
Speaker 1: has a very good chance and Ukraine has a very

790
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:37,879
Speaker 1: good chance now of also pushing into Crimea, which had

791
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:41,359
Speaker 1: been not in consideration as of even a few months ago.

792
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:43,279
Speaker 1: You read the New York Time story that the US

793
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:45,440
Speaker 1: is now decided to take the gloves off and to

794
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:47,719
Speaker 1: allow Ukraine, which is I read as giving them the

795
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:51,200
Speaker 1: intelligence and also giving them a military capability to to

796
00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:53,760
Speaker 1: punish the Russians in Crimea. You know, the real question

797
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:56,319
Speaker 1: is how long does Putin have and how long does

798
00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:58,759
Speaker 1: he does he want to play this out? And from

799
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 1: what I understand and where my reporting has taken me.

800
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:04,680
Speaker 1: He's shrugging his shoulders if he knows how badly his

801
00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:08,480
Speaker 1: his his army is is performing in the battlefield, or

802
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:10,840
Speaker 1: he's being misled as to what it's doing. He just

803
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:14,359
Speaker 1: doesn't care. He's he's not driven by considerations of you know,

804
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 1: Russian fatalities, at least not yet. A good friend of mine,

805
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:20,239
Speaker 1: who just wrote a book on on this war and

806
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:22,839
Speaker 1: even the sort of lead up to it, has gone

807
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:26,440
Speaker 1: to Moscow several times since a year ago and tells me,

808
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:28,799
Speaker 1: you know, the mood in Moscow is one of utter

809
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:32,640
Speaker 1: indifference and obliviousness. Nobody really realizes or cares that there's

810
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:35,000
Speaker 1: a war going on. So until he feels that this

811
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 1: thing is threatening his hold on power, and even then

812
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:40,640
Speaker 1: we don't know what he's what he might calculate he's

813
00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 1: just going to pour more manpower into it. Now that

814
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:46,279
Speaker 1: the real question is does he have all the concomitants

815
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 1: for war, the hardware, the ammunition, the military industrial complex.

816
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:52,879
Speaker 1: Can it sustain this in the long term. Well, you're

817
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:55,520
Speaker 1: beginning to hear from American officials. I mean, Wendy Sherman

818
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:58,279
Speaker 1: came out what was it last week and said, we

819
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:01,279
Speaker 1: don't see Putin being able to do another mass mobilization.

820
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 1: I just interviewed with an Estonian colleague of mine, a

821
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:06,799
Speaker 1: very good Estonian military analyst, who have been relying on

822
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:08,759
Speaker 1: since the start of this thing, and who's got it,

823
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:12,160
Speaker 1: frankly more or less right on every occasion, who says

824
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:14,799
Speaker 1: he does not foresee enough pressure on Putin to do

825
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 1: to undertake another mass mobilization. And he also said, which

826
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 1: is interesting, that in everybody in the in the US

827
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:25,200
Speaker 1: is now trying to anticipate the next big Russian counter offensive.

828
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 1: What they don't take into account is that the Russians

829
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:31,359
Speaker 1: and the Kremlin probably sees what is taking place now

830
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 1: as a massive counter offensive. So all the energy, all

831
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:38,439
Speaker 1: of the raw meat, frankly thrown into places like bach

832
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:41,400
Speaker 1: Mut and prior to that solidar, that's for them a

833
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:43,759
Speaker 1: big push. So it's it's it's interesting. We have we

834
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:47,359
Speaker 1: have different assessments depending on whom you query, but you know,

835
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:50,200
Speaker 1: I can tell you this, the Ukrainians have no flagging

836
00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:53,759
Speaker 1: resolve or morale. They think they can win, and by

837
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:57,560
Speaker 1: when they think they can push Russia even beyond February

838
00:46:56,640 --> 00:47:00,200
Speaker 1: twenty four borders um, they think that they can absolute

839
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:02,600
Speaker 1: retake CRIMEA. They think they can push them out of

840
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:05,320
Speaker 1: the l D and R. And I mean, look, I

841
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:10,760
Speaker 1: can also tell you that people who are paid to

842
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 1: go to places and collect information otherwise known as intelligence,

843
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 1: including from our country, are very very optimistic in a

844
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:22,800
Speaker 1: way that they had not been up until almost quite recently.

845
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:25,640
Speaker 1: I'd say, so take take that as you will. You know, again,

846
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:29,120
Speaker 1: the US and assessment was Kiva's toast in seventy two hours.

847
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:33,560
Speaker 1: Now it's Sevastopol might be toast for the Russians before

848
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:35,399
Speaker 1: the end of this thing. I'm going to push back

849
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:39,360
Speaker 1: here for two seconds. And when does this end? We

850
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:41,440
Speaker 1: don't know. I mean again, you know, a Putin can

851
00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:45,000
Speaker 1: can continue to fight a war or a special military operation,

852
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:48,120
Speaker 1: which he is only belatedly characterized I think once as

853
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:52,280
Speaker 1: a quote unquote war almost indefinitely. But again, you can.

854
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:54,400
Speaker 1: You can be in a state of war by just

855
00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:58,319
Speaker 1: you know, calling up eighteen year olds, giving them, you know,

856
00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 1: ill fitting out day uniforms, giving them rusty carbine rifles

857
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:06,399
Speaker 1: with no ammunition, sending them to the battlefield and say

858
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 1: go go take this town or city. That's a state

859
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:11,480
Speaker 1: of war, but it's not one that's sustainable or one

860
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:13,640
Speaker 1: that you can win. So the real question is when

861
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:16,680
Speaker 1: does Putin feel he has been defeated and when does

862
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:21,520
Speaker 1: he feel he can either withdraw and claim some kind

863
00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:23,439
Speaker 1: of victory, which you know, if you if you listen

864
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:27,040
Speaker 1: to Timothy Snyder, who's a very good historian of modern

865
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:30,759
Speaker 1: Europe and also understands, I think the Russian mindset on

866
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:33,120
Speaker 1: a lot of these issues. He wrote an essay several

867
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:37,080
Speaker 1: months ago about, you know, Putin's virtual reality dictatorship. The

868
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:41,319
Speaker 1: mass population in Russia believes what they see on television, right,

869
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:45,080
Speaker 1: they're not reading opposition independent newspapers, which now don't exist

870
00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:47,200
Speaker 1: in the country, have to go to places like Latvia

871
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:50,279
Speaker 1: and Lithuania and Poland. They believe what the TV tells them.

872
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:54,080
Speaker 1: And if Putin instructs his talking heads, his his you know,

873
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 1: operatic propagandists on state television to basically say, okay, it's over.

874
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:03,640
Speaker 1: We've we've degraded the Ukrainian military capability to a point

875
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:07,319
Speaker 1: where it's now neutralized, it poses no threat to US.

876
00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:10,160
Speaker 1: We humiliated NATO. I mean, they just make stuff up

877
00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 1: all the time, right, it's it's this isn't this would

878
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 1: not be a new script for them, the people would

879
00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:17,160
Speaker 1: probably shrug their soldiers and carry on. I mean, they're

880
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:21,400
Speaker 1: already doing that, even with three hundred thousand plus mobiics

881
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 1: being sent to the front. And by the way, the

882
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:27,440
Speaker 1: mobilization that that was undertaken a few months ago. And

883
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:29,759
Speaker 1: this kind of tells you the kind of regime that

884
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:33,560
Speaker 1: that Putin is running. That wasn't really targeting ethnic Russians, right,

885
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:36,440
Speaker 1: that was targeting the ethnic minority populations in Russia, the

886
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:39,480
Speaker 1: people in the regions boats, the Chechens of the Dagistanis

887
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 1: and so on. So he's sending non Russians to go

888
00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:45,759
Speaker 1: fight a war for Holy Mother Russian. So this is

889
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:51,279
Speaker 1: a very colonialist enterprise, and usually militaristic and aggressive and

890
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:55,040
Speaker 1: chauvinistic colonial enterprises collapse under their own weight. And in

891
00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:57,080
Speaker 1: this case, I mean, we don't have an empire here

892
00:49:57,320 --> 00:50:00,120
Speaker 1: that we're dealing with. We have a country who's I

893
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:03,560
Speaker 1: think GDP even before the war, was smaller than that

894
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:06,480
Speaker 1: of the state of California, and whose military, which is

895
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:09,160
Speaker 1: meant to be this bright, shiny new phenomenon that had

896
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:11,480
Speaker 1: been built up over the last several years, I mean,

897
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:14,879
Speaker 1: is a busted flush missiles that don't hit their mark

898
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:17,200
Speaker 1: missiles that are now being intercepted at a rate of

899
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:21,440
Speaker 1: what as of yesterday, you know, this bombardment of cruise

900
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:24,959
Speaker 1: missiles and Kiev and other regions. I think they shot

901
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:27,319
Speaker 1: down forty seven out of fifty five of them. That's

902
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:29,640
Speaker 1: that's good. And they're getting better all the time, the Ukrainians,

903
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 1: thanks to the platforms that we're providing them. So when

904
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:33,880
Speaker 1: you say when does it end, I don't have an

905
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:36,799
Speaker 1: answer for you, but I can tell you that the

906
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:39,759
Speaker 1: current trajectory should suggests it's not going to end the

907
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:43,040
Speaker 1: way Russia wants. And the other interesting data point here is,

908
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:46,000
Speaker 1: you know, and I heard this ad nauseum at the

909
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:48,799
Speaker 1: start of this thing, several cliches, Oh, a danger A

910
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:51,200
Speaker 1: cornered putin is a dangerous putin. He's like a rat.

911
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:53,480
Speaker 1: You know, he's gonna he's gonna show his teeth and

912
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:56,520
Speaker 1: all that. Well, now you're hearing from US officials again.

913
00:50:56,560 --> 00:50:59,200
Speaker 1: This was quote in the New York Times. Toria Nowland

914
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:01,319
Speaker 1: said this several weeks ago, and it kind of flew

915
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:04,880
Speaker 1: under the radar. They don't think that the nuclear threat

916
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:08,319
Speaker 1: is nearly as acute as it was several months ago.

917
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:11,920
Speaker 1: And according to Newland. Houghton was persuaded that if if

918
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:14,800
Speaker 1: he were to resort to w M D in any fashion,

919
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:17,239
Speaker 1: tactical or whatever, it would be the end for him

920
00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:19,720
Speaker 1: because he would lose China and he would lose India,

921
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:22,080
Speaker 1: the two countries that he has to rely on. It

922
00:51:22,320 --> 00:51:26,759
Speaker 1: with China strategically, but also economically with India. That's good news,

923
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:28,879
Speaker 1: which is why every time I see World War three

924
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:31,440
Speaker 1: trending on Twitter, every time world War tree is has

925
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:33,480
Speaker 1: has trended, I mean, we're up to World War like

926
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:37,799
Speaker 1: eighty nine by now, right. Sending tanks to Ukraine is

927
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 1: not going to start another World War. And to be

928
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:43,480
Speaker 1: honest with you, I mean I'm not going to offer

929
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:45,239
Speaker 1: my own opinion on this. I'll just tell you I'm

930
00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:48,840
Speaker 1: hearing from people who have access to information that I

931
00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:51,680
Speaker 1: do not. They think that sending F sixteens to Ukraine

932
00:51:51,719 --> 00:51:55,400
Speaker 1: won't even cause a major hiccup in terms of kinetic

933
00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:58,240
Speaker 1: response from the Russian side. There's a reason, for instance,

934
00:51:58,239 --> 00:52:01,040
Speaker 1: they're putting pants here air defenses him on top of

935
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:03,680
Speaker 1: the Ministry of Defense in Moscow and other tall buildings

936
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:06,960
Speaker 1: they're preparing. Thank you so much for joining us. Michael

937
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:18,280
Speaker 1: Weiss Molly John Fast Jesse Cannon. I hear Mr Trump's

938
00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:20,239
Speaker 1: doing some campaign and what do you see in there?

939
00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:31,160
Speaker 1: A weekend of Donald J. Trump praying over fast food restaurants.

940
00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:36,000
Speaker 1: That was his hair looked sojestic. We've yes, that's sorry,

941
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:39,280
Speaker 1: looked majestic by that, I'd be not at all majestic.

942
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:42,440
Speaker 1: As our moment of we're going to say, take Donald

943
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:45,080
Speaker 1: Trump today, but I actually want to be serious for

944
00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:49,360
Speaker 1: a minute. He does stupid stuff. He appeals to people

945
00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:53,160
Speaker 1: who are not intellectuals. Maybe, but um, he needs to

946
00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:58,040
Speaker 1: be taken deadly seriously. And because you know, even though

947
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:02,759
Speaker 1: it seems like Trump is poison when it comes to

948
00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:06,759
Speaker 1: Swing States, He's still a real danger. And if he

949
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:10,600
Speaker 1: gets I guess it would be considered to be reelected,

950
00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:14,320
Speaker 1: he will end American democracy as we know it. Also

951
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:17,400
Speaker 1: will have to deal with more Don Jr. Which I

952
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:21,560
Speaker 1: personally cannot take. So I don't know if the cartels

953
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:24,839
Speaker 1: can take keeping up that supply either. You said it,

954
00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:29,160
Speaker 1: I didn't. But our moment of frugery is Donald Trump.

955
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:34,280
Speaker 1: Don't take him literally, take him seriously because he's terrifying.

956
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:38,560
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in

957
00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:41,840
Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday and Friday to hear the best minds

958
00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:45,080
Speaker 1: and politics makes sense of all this chaos. If you

959
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:47,920
Speaker 1: enjoyed what you've heard, please send it to a friend

960
00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:51,520
Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going. And again, thanks for listening.