1
00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:03,360
Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio.

2
00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:06,360
Speaker 2: Saren, Hey, how are you doing?

3
00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:08,600
Speaker 3: Oh man, I was just taking a nap waiting for you.

4
00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:12,240
Speaker 2: I know I was late. It's okay, okay, cool.

5
00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:13,680
Speaker 3: I needed I needed the sleep.

6
00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:16,480
Speaker 2: Totally legal, totally cool. Listen. You know it's ridiculous.

7
00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:20,400
Speaker 3: Yes, tell me, Okay, do you remember the like snacks

8
00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:21,560
Speaker 3: that we used to get as kids.

9
00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:22,160
Speaker 2: Sure.

10
00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:24,959
Speaker 3: I was reminded of one by my sister and I

11
00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:26,560
Speaker 3: was like that we didn't really is that really a thing?

12
00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:28,200
Speaker 3: And then she sent me a picture to remind me,

13
00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:29,560
Speaker 3: and I was like, oh my god, that really was

14
00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:32,000
Speaker 3: a thing. Hot buttered cheerios.

15
00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:34,839
Speaker 2: Hot buttered cheerios.

16
00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:37,600
Speaker 3: Buttered cheerios. No, it was not a snack of my

17
00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:39,880
Speaker 3: childhood either, but it was something that we were served

18
00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:41,919
Speaker 3: once and both Megan and I my sister, were like,

19
00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:46,840
Speaker 3: what is this hot buttered cheerios? In case you're not aware,

20
00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:49,760
Speaker 3: I'm not aware it was. And I found the advertisement

21
00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:52,720
Speaker 3: that it's basically the recipe. Okay, so it says the

22
00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:55,280
Speaker 3: new quick and easy TV snack you make with cheerios.

23
00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:57,320
Speaker 3: So it's a TV snack like popcorn.

24
00:00:56,880 --> 00:00:58,560
Speaker 2: Or something the TV.

25
00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:01,840
Speaker 3: Exactly you wouldn't know about that. Well, anyway, the ad

26
00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:04,360
Speaker 3: goes make a bolt right now. Just melt a quarter

27
00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:07,720
Speaker 3: cup of butter or margarine in a ten inch skillet

28
00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:12,039
Speaker 3: over low heat. Add four cups of cheerios, Cook and

29
00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:15,560
Speaker 3: stir cereal two to three minutes until well coated and hot.

30
00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:20,360
Speaker 3: Then sprinkle with salt. You've got hot buttered ose served

31
00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:23,600
Speaker 3: warm or cool. It's a tasty new snack your whole

32
00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:29,640
Speaker 3: family will enjoy. God, and we're reminded of like, oh God,

33
00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:32,480
Speaker 3: that actually was served to us is a hot.

34
00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:36,039
Speaker 2: Butter like the last it's who gave it to you, just.

35
00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:39,080
Speaker 3: Something some parent who was like, hey, your kids, here's

36
00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:42,759
Speaker 3: something that's better than sawdust. You know, like they had

37
00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:44,680
Speaker 3: no respect for us. When we your kids, there's nothing like, oh,

38
00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:47,320
Speaker 3: we're gonna get food. It's either like you get natural

39
00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:49,480
Speaker 3: food nobody wants to eat and you're embarrassed to show

40
00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:51,559
Speaker 3: your friends. Yeah, my sister and I got it home,

41
00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:53,840
Speaker 3: or when we left the house it was like here's

42
00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:56,600
Speaker 3: something that nobody should eat. And it was like something

43
00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:59,200
Speaker 3: with aspect or is like white bread with no crust,

44
00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:01,320
Speaker 3: and it was like, oh, just cucumbers and mayonnaise. I'm like,

45
00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:02,360
Speaker 3: that's not a sandwich.

46
00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:05,640
Speaker 2: You're going to fancy places. I was in Georgia, was

47
00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:07,960
Speaker 2: in politics, Yeah, you were in politics.

48
00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:09,280
Speaker 3: Well, my father was whatever.

49
00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:12,040
Speaker 2: You know. You know what else is ridiculous?

50
00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:13,600
Speaker 3: No, I was hoping you did.

51
00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:15,800
Speaker 2: I could tell you, but that's a horse of a

52
00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:40,160
Speaker 2: different color. I don't even know. This is ridiculous.

53
00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:45,280
Speaker 4: Crime A podcast about absurd and outrageous capers, heists, and cons.

54
00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:48,760
Speaker 4: It's always ninety nine percent murder free and one hundred

55
00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:50,079
Speaker 4: percent ridiculous.

56
00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:52,120
Speaker 3: I know you heard that.

57
00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:55,760
Speaker 2: Are you a big horse racing guy?

58
00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:56,160
Speaker 5: Yes?

59
00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:57,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know.

60
00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:00,079
Speaker 4: You told me the story about that betting scandal and

61
00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:00,880
Speaker 4: then you called that.

62
00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:02,320
Speaker 2: Amazing horse race.

63
00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:03,160
Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you.

64
00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:04,040
Speaker 2: It was brilliant.

65
00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:04,520
Speaker 5: By the way.

66
00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:07,040
Speaker 3: You know, I can't hear the actors Zendaya's name without

67
00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:10,000
Speaker 3: thinking of the horse z and Yata. That's how much

68
00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:11,800
Speaker 3: I love horse.

69
00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:15,040
Speaker 2: Did you go to races? You do you go to races?

70
00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:17,360
Speaker 3: These days? There's no good horse track round here because

71
00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:19,640
Speaker 3: they closed the Golden Gate fraight. When I lived in

72
00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:21,040
Speaker 3: l A. I used to go to the horse tracks.

73
00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:23,000
Speaker 3: They had two tracks down there. They had Hollywood and

74
00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:25,480
Speaker 3: then over. It doesn't matter. But also you go down

75
00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:26,880
Speaker 3: to San Diego. There's a bunch of tracks.

76
00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:30,520
Speaker 4: Okay, I'm of a mind that I think that, you know,

77
00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:32,520
Speaker 4: the treatment of the animals can be cruel.

78
00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:33,560
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it definitely is.

79
00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:37,160
Speaker 4: I don't know if they desire the kind of activity

80
00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:41,800
Speaker 4: that racing provides. Like I'm pretty sure they don't want

81
00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:44,000
Speaker 4: to be pulled like pump full of drugs.

82
00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:46,520
Speaker 3: And also all the stuff with their legs.

83
00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:49,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, but like you know, you get like sled dogs,

84
00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:50,520
Speaker 4: they want to run.

85
00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:52,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so that's a work animal.

86
00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:52,920
Speaker 5: Yeah.

87
00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:54,680
Speaker 3: The race horse isn't necessarily a work animal.

88
00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:54,840
Speaker 6: No.

89
00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:57,520
Speaker 2: And they're bred for like specific.

90
00:03:57,400 --> 00:03:59,200
Speaker 3: Like Clydesdale's, then you might get some of that.

91
00:03:59,320 --> 00:03:59,480
Speaker 6: Yuh.

92
00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:03,800
Speaker 2: Those and Belgian horses just like giant.

93
00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:05,320
Speaker 3: Belgian staff horses a giant one.

94
00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:08,440
Speaker 4: And horses in general beautiful creatures. Love them, I don't

95
00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:10,360
Speaker 4: I think I told you about how I've been a

96
00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:13,320
Speaker 4: one horse racing event in my life at the Alameda

97
00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:13,880
Speaker 4: County Fair.

98
00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:15,240
Speaker 3: Yes, know, it's only one.

99
00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:15,880
Speaker 2: I got to.

100
00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:18,919
Speaker 4: Stand along the fence while the horses ran. Oh my gosh,

101
00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:20,279
Speaker 4: it was so thunderous.

102
00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:22,719
Speaker 3: All that it sounds amazing. I mentioned that too.

103
00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:24,440
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, they feel it in the ground.

104
00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:25,400
Speaker 3: I'm feeling your bones.

105
00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:28,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mentioned it to you when you told me

106
00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:30,360
Speaker 4: about the frat boys who cheated on the horse race.

107
00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:34,320
Speaker 4: But the story remains the same, Saren. And know by

108
00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:38,080
Speaker 4: the way you talked about Golden Gate Fields Berkeley that's closed.

109
00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:40,840
Speaker 4: As you said, that is like prime real estate right

110
00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:42,640
Speaker 4: on the oday. I have no idea what they're going

111
00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:43,320
Speaker 4: to do with it, but.

112
00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:45,720
Speaker 3: I hope it's something because it just it's amazing looks

113
00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:48,000
Speaker 3: right at San Francisco. It's right on the water, right

114
00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:50,520
Speaker 3: by the freeway. It's super easy to get to.

115
00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:52,320
Speaker 2: It's amazing ball park.

116
00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:56,920
Speaker 4: So, Saren, I want to get out of the USA

117
00:04:57,520 --> 00:04:59,880
Speaker 4: right now. I want to go somewhere else today, let's go.

118
00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:03,760
Speaker 4: I want to go to Australia. Oh yeah, to be specific,

119
00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:08,320
Speaker 4: I want to delve into their most famous horse racing scandal.

120
00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:11,240
Speaker 4: And it's been suggested to us.

121
00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:12,440
Speaker 2: Many times over the years.

122
00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:15,680
Speaker 4: Do you have no idea how many requests we've gotten

123
00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:18,880
Speaker 4: for this? The time is now. That's what I'm trying

124
00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:21,240
Speaker 4: to say, And I want to make it clear that

125
00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:24,880
Speaker 4: I'm not picking on Australia by telling so many stories

126
00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:26,240
Speaker 4: about the criminal exploits.

127
00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:29,799
Speaker 2: I do it out of love and respect. Yeah, exactly.

128
00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:34,320
Speaker 4: Australia knows how to party and they get down under

129
00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:38,760
Speaker 4: a dirty as no one says, So what am I

130
00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:42,080
Speaker 4: talking about today? Willis the fine Cotton affair?

131
00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:42,680
Speaker 2: Oh?

132
00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:44,000
Speaker 3: I don't know this one.

133
00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:48,160
Speaker 4: I love cotton, by the way, like the fabric of

134
00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:52,240
Speaker 4: our lives, don't. I don't wear synthetics for the most part.

135
00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:56,719
Speaker 4: Cotton in Kashmir, the Elizabeth Dutton story. It's cashmere season,

136
00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:01,760
Speaker 4: by the way, once again, I need to stop the digressions,

137
00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:04,159
Speaker 4: like I'm so scattered these days.

138
00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:07,200
Speaker 2: I'm really good at them. But I apologize anyway.

139
00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:08,560
Speaker 3: You did with speed and alacrity.

140
00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:11,000
Speaker 4: Just I am all over the place. So the Fine

141
00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:13,920
Speaker 4: Cotton affair, it's also known as the Fine Cotton scandal.

142
00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:15,840
Speaker 3: It's cotton, a person in a place, a thing called

143
00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:16,280
Speaker 3: We're going.

144
00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:19,960
Speaker 4: To hear this is a scandalo. Yeah, let's start with

145
00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:23,800
Speaker 4: some basics, please. Fine cotton born in nineteen seventy six,

146
00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:27,040
Speaker 4: passed away two thousand and nine. It was a brown

147
00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:28,960
Speaker 4: Australian Thoroughbred gelding.

148
00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:29,400
Speaker 2: Ah.

149
00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:31,120
Speaker 3: I was figuring, yeah, I need you have the birth and.

150
00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:32,919
Speaker 2: Dates was unfortunate.

151
00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:38,520
Speaker 4: Thoroughbreads are known as like hot leoded horses. They're fast, agile,

152
00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:43,719
Speaker 4: they have that PMA positive mental attitide be a little

153
00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:44,320
Speaker 4: bad brains.

154
00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:48,200
Speaker 2: They are spirited. Yes, they're committed to sparkle motion.

155
00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:49,520
Speaker 3: They are zaren.

156
00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:52,239
Speaker 2: Sometimes I question your commitment to sparkle.

157
00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:54,880
Speaker 3: You have good reason to look at my outfits.

158
00:06:55,400 --> 00:07:00,200
Speaker 4: So while Fine Cotton was an Australian thorough bread, it

159
00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:04,159
Speaker 4: was not fast, agile or committed to sparkle motion, like

160
00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:07,479
Speaker 4: you to expect. Really kind of a dud, really, yeah,

161
00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:10,640
Speaker 4: to be kind, we'll say he was of limited ability.

162
00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:11,760
Speaker 3: So he was an also rand.

163
00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:14,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, but he's gorgeous though, And isn't that always the

164
00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:18,840
Speaker 4: way looks her brains gotta choose one talent except for you,

165
00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:20,280
Speaker 4: Except for you and producer Dave.

166
00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:22,320
Speaker 3: It broke the mold the day they made you to

167
00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:23,400
Speaker 3: we got neither.

168
00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:28,480
Speaker 4: Fine Cotton was a looker. You're into those sort of things.

169
00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:32,320
Speaker 4: He was described as having a rich, dark brown coat

170
00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:36,440
Speaker 4: with white socks on his legs. Oh, it's cute, cute

171
00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:39,080
Speaker 4: but slow. Yeah, so it's just like white markings.

172
00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:41,920
Speaker 3: So it could be a spokesmodel for Maine and tail exactly.

173
00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:47,280
Speaker 4: So, but what if fine, what if Fine Cotton suddenly

174
00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:52,119
Speaker 4: became amazing a glow up. Well, that would be great,

175
00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:54,840
Speaker 4: and what an achievement. I would be so proud of

176
00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:55,360
Speaker 4: that horse.

177
00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:58,960
Speaker 3: That horse could get in the zone like God, and.

178
00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:00,000
Speaker 2: I would be so proud.

179
00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:04,120
Speaker 4: Out of the folks betting on fine cotton, you know,

180
00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:06,440
Speaker 4: the ones who took a chance on a slow horse

181
00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:11,200
Speaker 4: to win, Why they would make a grip of cash.

182
00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:15,040
Speaker 4: I'd be so proud of them, you know, supporting the

183
00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:16,560
Speaker 4: underdog finally paying off.

184
00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:20,120
Speaker 2: Yeah. So enter John Gillespie.

185
00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:24,640
Speaker 4: He was a bloodstock agent, which is a that is

186
00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:26,560
Speaker 4: a title for a business card right there.

187
00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:27,560
Speaker 3: Do you know what it is?

188
00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:30,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's basically a horse broke So they buy

189
00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:35,280
Speaker 2: datty so great. They buy and.

190
00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:39,320
Speaker 4: Sell horses on behalf clients. They offer advice on purchasing horses.

191
00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:41,600
Speaker 4: So he's a bloodstock agent.

192
00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:42,320
Speaker 2: So good.

193
00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:46,640
Speaker 4: But he had other items on his resume. He used

194
00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:48,000
Speaker 4: to be a used car salesman.

195
00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:48,960
Speaker 3: Of course.

196
00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:53,240
Speaker 4: He he had also been a police informant. Oh wow,

197
00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:57,400
Speaker 4: a lacky boom boom down. You have to you have

198
00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:00,839
Speaker 4: to have done some things to become an informant by crime.

199
00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:05,439
Speaker 4: The fuzz doesn't come asking me for him. They want

200
00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:07,800
Speaker 4: to hear so they go to people like John Gillespie,

201
00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:12,120
Speaker 4: someone who had three hundred convictions un of his house.

202
00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:19,400
Speaker 3: How how convictions like you can be getting a conviction

203
00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:21,040
Speaker 3: every week and that for.

204
00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:22,400
Speaker 2: Years, I think so.

205
00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:26,839
Speaker 4: So the year nineteen eighty two, John Gillespie he tries

206
00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:29,760
Speaker 4: his first horse con okay, he set it up for

207
00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:34,000
Speaker 4: a horse named Apparent Heir to race at Dooman in Brisbane.

208
00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:38,040
Speaker 4: Fair enough, and then he subbed in a better horse

209
00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:41,720
Speaker 4: named Manissong at the last minute, Like that's a scam

210
00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:43,760
Speaker 4: and he would have gotten away with it, except for

211
00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:47,440
Speaker 4: that Manisong didn't win and the ringer didn't ring so

212
00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:51,120
Speaker 4: people lost money and through it all and somehow and

213
00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:55,680
Speaker 4: so forth, Gillespie didn't get prosecuted for this. You couldn't

214
00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:58,240
Speaker 4: add it to the list of three hundred. And that's

215
00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:01,320
Speaker 4: what gave him the confidence to try again. Oh he

216
00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:03,120
Speaker 4: picked herself up and try again.

217
00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:05,200
Speaker 3: There's a spot for Gillespie exactly.

218
00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:08,960
Speaker 4: So see, if there are no ramifications for bad actions,

219
00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:11,359
Speaker 4: there's no incentive to stop the behaviors.

220
00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:14,080
Speaker 3: Arin yeah, yeah, which is very true without like a

221
00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:19,079
Speaker 3: corporal punishment or shame or like incarceration, or does someone

222
00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:21,760
Speaker 3: beating their ass any one of these things. People are like,

223
00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:23,200
Speaker 3: I can get away with this. Oh yeah.

224
00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:26,640
Speaker 4: So he wound up in jail on another matter, and

225
00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:30,040
Speaker 4: that's where he ran into a jockey named Pat Titana

226
00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:35,679
Speaker 4: who was doing time for kite flying, hiding kiting.

227
00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:36,719
Speaker 3: Bad check.

228
00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:39,640
Speaker 2: But they call it kite flying, do they? Apparently?

229
00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:43,719
Speaker 4: It turns out that Pat's brother, Hayden, was a licensed

230
00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:47,840
Speaker 4: horse trainer. Okay, And so here's how the Australian Broadcasting

231
00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:53,080
Speaker 4: Corporation described Hayden. Titan is a knock about kiwi who's

232
00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:56,400
Speaker 4: moved to Australia to live out his teenage fantasy, a

233
00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:59,840
Speaker 4: vision of the bare breasted Gold Coast girls from Picks,

234
00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:02,960
Speaker 4: the only skimpy magazine he could get growing up in

235
00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:06,000
Speaker 4: New Zealand. He's already spent some time behind bars in

236
00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:09,880
Speaker 4: New Zealand for stealing chainsaws, although he once dreamed of

237
00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:13,160
Speaker 4: becoming quote James Bond on the Gold Coast. By early

238
00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:16,400
Speaker 4: nineteen eighty four, he's living a quiet life training horses

239
00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:20,360
Speaker 4: on a bush block in northern New South Wales. Wow

240
00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:23,000
Speaker 4: stealing chainsaws.

241
00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:24,760
Speaker 3: And then becomes a horse trainer after wanting to be

242
00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:27,000
Speaker 3: James Bond on the Old Coast. It's you know what,

243
00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:28,120
Speaker 3: guy's got career option.

244
00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:31,959
Speaker 4: It's just he's got real moxie. So Pat and Gillesbie

245
00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:35,280
Speaker 4: they talk about ring ins sure, you know, swapping out

246
00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:37,800
Speaker 4: the horses while they're in prison or in jail together.

247
00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:43,479
Speaker 4: And Gillespie he gets them brain cranks, moving hamster working.

248
00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:45,600
Speaker 3: Overtime, cogs and wheels and gears.

249
00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:47,200
Speaker 2: All of that, all those type of things.

250
00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:50,200
Speaker 4: So Gillespie he gets out of prison March nineteen eighty four,

251
00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:54,520
Speaker 4: and he reached out to his pal Mixed Sayers, a mobster.

252
00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:57,400
Speaker 4: I like to imagine them on like a split screen

253
00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:00,160
Speaker 4: in my mind, where one's on his bed with our

254
00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:03,439
Speaker 4: field sheets, like twisting the phone cord around his figure.

255
00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:05,920
Speaker 4: He's like on his stomach, his feet are up behind him,

256
00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:08,000
Speaker 4: and then the other is like in the hall with

257
00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:10,120
Speaker 4: the kitchen phone cord stretched around the corner.

258
00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:13,679
Speaker 2: I mean, it's nineteen eighty four, you know, get with the.

259
00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:15,680
Speaker 3: Times, that long, long extension.

260
00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:18,120
Speaker 2: He's like whispering. He doesn'tant anyone hear you go to.

261
00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:19,560
Speaker 3: The living roomrom the kitchen. I remember it.

262
00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:24,000
Speaker 4: Exactly, so Mixed Sayers. He's Gillespie's connection to.

263
00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:25,000
Speaker 2: Like real crimers.

264
00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:28,920
Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, Sayers owed money to a boss named George Freeman,

265
00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:32,960
Speaker 4: and he brought Freeman into this scheme they were developing

266
00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:34,040
Speaker 4: to get a taste.

267
00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:35,000
Speaker 3: Like Australian hard men.

268
00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:37,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then the network just keeps growing from there.

269
00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:41,120
Speaker 4: So they Haynes's job was to make sure that Fine

270
00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:44,520
Speaker 4: Cotton was terrible, okay, And so he had to make

271
00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:47,240
Speaker 4: sure that the horse lost as many races as was

272
00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:51,760
Speaker 4: equinely possible. Okay, the worst record, the worst the odds,

273
00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:53,080
Speaker 4: the better the payout if he wins.

274
00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:54,960
Speaker 3: So they're like dope in the books.

275
00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:57,120
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, And so they're just like feeding him Big

276
00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:00,000
Speaker 4: Max and laying in a field together and like smoking

277
00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:02,040
Speaker 4: joints and like, I guess we gotta go run.

278
00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:04,000
Speaker 2: Come on, He's like, oh, help me up here.

279
00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:08,560
Speaker 4: So Gillespie then found this trainer, Wendy Smith, and he

280
00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:12,440
Speaker 4: asked her to train a solid racer named Dashing Solitaire.

281
00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:16,360
Speaker 4: And that's the horse that Gillespian Company selected to be

282
00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:18,959
Speaker 4: the ring in replacement for Fine Cotton.

283
00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:21,760
Speaker 3: Yes, Dashing Solid, Dashing Solitaire is going to be the.

284
00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:23,160
Speaker 2: Ringer, right, So here's the thing.

285
00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:27,600
Speaker 4: Dashing Solitaire was dark chocolate brown like Fine Cotton, and

286
00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:30,680
Speaker 4: their sizes are about the same. But remember that Fine

287
00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:34,400
Speaker 4: Cotton had those white sock markings and Dashing Solitaire did not.

288
00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:38,640
Speaker 4: Oh well, so Wendy, They're like, whatever, just just do it.

289
00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:42,600
Speaker 4: So Wendy gets Dashing Solitaire starts training him. He wasn't

290
00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:45,199
Speaker 4: the best horse, but she worked on him, did her best.

291
00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,640
Speaker 4: This is July of eighty four. The next month, Gillespie

292
00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:51,360
Speaker 4: came by and he took Dashing Solitaire to a race.

293
00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:53,160
Speaker 4: You know, just going to check him out. Let's see

294
00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:53,600
Speaker 4: how he runs.

295
00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:54,680
Speaker 2: Yeah.

296
00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:57,840
Speaker 4: A few days later, Wendy goes to check on Dashing

297
00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:00,800
Speaker 4: Solitaire sees that his leg has been severely injured.

298
00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:01,200
Speaker 6: Oh.

299
00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:03,440
Speaker 3: I thought you're gonna say severely painted white. No.

300
00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:07,600
Speaker 4: No, he apparently he got tangled up in a barbed

301
00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:10,600
Speaker 4: wire fence after getting spooked by some kangaroos.

302
00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:14,040
Speaker 3: That is the most Australian see it is, well, like

303
00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:17,120
Speaker 3: racehorse gets tangled up in barbed wire because it gets

304
00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:18,520
Speaker 3: spooked by karos.

305
00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:22,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, the injury was bad, and Wendy is furious, so

306
00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:25,760
Speaker 4: she said, quote, it's just cruel anyone that would put

307
00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:29,000
Speaker 4: a horse into a barbed wire fence. Paddock just doesn't

308
00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:30,600
Speaker 4: think anything of racehorses.

309
00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:31,960
Speaker 3: I didn't even know they had that.

310
00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:34,640
Speaker 4: I don't think they do. I don't know what's wrong

311
00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:38,640
Speaker 4: with these people. So anyway, Dashing Solitaires out. The crew

312
00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:40,400
Speaker 4: had to figure out a way to pull this off.

313
00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:44,160
Speaker 4: So Hayden he was in favor of just pumping fine

314
00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:46,600
Speaker 4: cotton full of amphetamines.

315
00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:49,080
Speaker 2: Whatever.

316
00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:52,280
Speaker 4: They got a speed bomb, as he called, it's horrifying,

317
00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:55,840
Speaker 4: and even Gillespie's like, no, man, like, come on now.

318
00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:58,840
Speaker 3: You ever seeing a horse's nose open up and they run, Yeah,

319
00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:00,920
Speaker 3: it's like insane. The flare of the nostrils and you

320
00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:02,520
Speaker 3: imagine if it was oh yeah.

321
00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:04,120
Speaker 4: And then the nostrils just go all the way wide

322
00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:07,840
Speaker 4: to wrap around the years. So he didn't he didn't

323
00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:09,520
Speaker 4: want to less. We didn't want to bail on the

324
00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:13,160
Speaker 4: plan though, So he found a replacement for Dashing Solitaire,

325
00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:15,440
Speaker 4: and he couldn't be picky about looks like.

326
00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:18,400
Speaker 2: It just had to be, as I like to say,

327
00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:19,440
Speaker 2: close enough for government.

328
00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:20,040
Speaker 3: Oh god.

329
00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:23,600
Speaker 4: So it didn't have to look exactly like fine cotton,

330
00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:25,680
Speaker 4: but it had to be able to haul rear on

331
00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:31,360
Speaker 4: the track and that horse bold personality. Ooh, I love

332
00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:34,520
Speaker 4: I love racehorse names. I think they might be better

333
00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:38,920
Speaker 4: than like show dog names. Oh yeah, yeah, Bold Personality.

334
00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:41,720
Speaker 4: So that horse, he's owned by a guy named Bill

335
00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:45,320
Speaker 4: nom and he was like a really well respected trainer.

336
00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:48,200
Speaker 2: On the up and up. They tell Bill, we'll buy.

337
00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:51,720
Speaker 4: This horse for twenty thousand dollars and their plan was

338
00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:55,840
Speaker 4: to race the horse on a Saturday before the check.

339
00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:56,640
Speaker 2: Cleared on Monday.

340
00:15:56,840 --> 00:15:57,640
Speaker 5: Ah.

341
00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:02,160
Speaker 4: So Bold Personality didn't have Fine Cotton's white sox. They

342
00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:06,080
Speaker 4: seemed to be able to overlook that though. Okay, so

343
00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:09,200
Speaker 4: remember Dashing Solitaire. He didn't have the white sox, but

344
00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:11,680
Speaker 4: he had everything else and they could overlook the socks.

345
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:13,240
Speaker 4: What about Bold Personality?

346
00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:14,880
Speaker 3: What about Bold Personality? Elizabeth?

347
00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:16,840
Speaker 2: He really looked nothing like fine.

348
00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:18,760
Speaker 3: Is he like a white speckled horse?

349
00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:18,880
Speaker 6: Oh?

350
00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:19,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

351
00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:24,600
Speaker 4: Hayden saw the horse and said, quote, it's the wrong color.

352
00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:30,479
Speaker 2: Fine cotton is almost black. Bold Personality is brown. Yes, yeah.

353
00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:33,120
Speaker 2: And then there were the white socks. Again.

354
00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:37,000
Speaker 4: No, none on Bold Personality either. So at this point

355
00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:39,440
Speaker 4: the crew is so far into the deal that they

356
00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:42,840
Speaker 4: can't back out, and the bedding's all in place, and

357
00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:46,640
Speaker 4: all sorts of criminal Underworld types are breathing down their collective.

358
00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:48,560
Speaker 3: Score here.

359
00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:50,640
Speaker 2: So the crew they came.

360
00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:54,120
Speaker 4: Up with a plan for bold personality, A bold plan

361
00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:57,720
Speaker 4: for bold personality. Hold that thought. When we come back,

362
00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:23,320
Speaker 4: we'll go over this plan together. Yes, okay, we're back. Listen, Zaren,

363
00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:24,840
Speaker 4: I don't want to mess around.

364
00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:26,560
Speaker 3: I got to say a Laddy, I don't think you're

365
00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:28,480
Speaker 3: messing around. You never mess around. I do like though,

366
00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:30,680
Speaker 3: that even when you're not messing around. How many? How

367
00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:32,880
Speaker 3: often your stories sound like the plot of a Guy

368
00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:36,040
Speaker 3: Ritchie movie. I've yet to see Guy Ritchie.

369
00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:38,240
Speaker 2: If you're listening, I'm your idea factory.

370
00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:40,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, contact Elizabeth.

371
00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:43,840
Speaker 2: I'll help you out. Pal so, Zaren, close your eye.

372
00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:47,240
Speaker 3: Oh my god, yes.

373
00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:48,520
Speaker 2: I want you to picture it.

374
00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:52,240
Speaker 4: It's August seventeenth, nineteen eighty four, the day before the

375
00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:56,080
Speaker 4: Big Race. You live in Brisbane, Australia. You are a

376
00:17:56,280 --> 00:18:00,000
Speaker 4: very nosy fifty three year old woman named Gladys. You

377
00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:02,800
Speaker 4: love to sit out on the back balcony of your home,

378
00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:05,880
Speaker 4: sunning yourself with one of those reflective fold out sheets.

379
00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:09,960
Speaker 4: You're like human beef jerky. Your crispy blonde hair lives

380
00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:12,040
Speaker 4: in a tangle of curls on top of your head.

381
00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:15,880
Speaker 4: Your coral color lipstick is applied with notions of proximity,

382
00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:19,600
Speaker 4: not precision. You wear short athletic shorts and a tank top.

383
00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:23,119
Speaker 4: You are Gladys Baby. Your next door neighbor is a

384
00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:26,480
Speaker 4: man named Bobby North, some sort of businessman. He seems

385
00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:29,520
Speaker 4: a little shady, and you are absolutely sure he checks

386
00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:29,960
Speaker 4: you out.

387
00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:30,679
Speaker 2: When you're sun bathing.

388
00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:34,120
Speaker 4: What that means is that you find him incredibly entertaining.

389
00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:38,040
Speaker 4: You can see into his enormous back property from your balcony,

390
00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:41,639
Speaker 4: especially with the binoculars you keep on hand, So while

391
00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:44,119
Speaker 4: you just have an expanse of lawn with some woods

392
00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:46,760
Speaker 4: in the distance, Bobby has a large dirt corral and

393
00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:47,600
Speaker 4: horse paddocks.

394
00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:48,720
Speaker 2: He thinks he's fancy.

395
00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:52,399
Speaker 4: So there you are, sun setting, sipping on a crow's

396
00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:55,679
Speaker 4: nest double sasparilla soda and soaking up the last of

397
00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:59,199
Speaker 4: the rays, just you and the kuckubarras. Then you hear something.

398
00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:03,399
Speaker 4: The side gate at Bobby North's creeks open. Here's some

399
00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,359
Speaker 4: men having a conversation. As they enter the backyard. You

400
00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:09,280
Speaker 4: grab your binoculars and you watch them tote in grocery

401
00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:12,480
Speaker 4: bags some sort of party. You wonder the way the

402
00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:16,359
Speaker 4: properties are situated, you can always hear absolutely everything coming

403
00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:19,120
Speaker 4: from Bobby's place, which is a gift for you, gladys,

404
00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:22,480
Speaker 4: because as I mentioned, you're terribly nosy. You hear Bobby say,

405
00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:25,160
Speaker 4: I can't believe we got all the boxes in town.

406
00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:28,359
Speaker 4: Hayden didn't think we'd get enough. The man, you figure

407
00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:31,199
Speaker 4: is Hayden chuckles and ask someone he calls Gillespie to

408
00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:33,800
Speaker 4: toss him a beer. You soon hear the crack of

409
00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:36,919
Speaker 4: three pop tops. You watch as Hayden fishes through the

410
00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:41,040
Speaker 4: bags and pulls out box after box of Claireal hair

411
00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:44,920
Speaker 4: dye shade number four. They rip open the packaging as

412
00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:48,119
Speaker 4: Gillespie heads toward the paddock and then walks a beautiful

413
00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:50,840
Speaker 4: horse out into the corral. Then you watch as the

414
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:52,840
Speaker 4: men begin to mix the color in a bucket and

415
00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:55,399
Speaker 4: proceed to slap it all over the horse. What in

416
00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:58,720
Speaker 4: God's name is going on over there, you wonder? You

417
00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:01,880
Speaker 4: watch for hours, well into the night. Is the men

418
00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:05,200
Speaker 4: drink and joke and slather the horse and hair dye.

419
00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:08,120
Speaker 4: They talk about making money from bookies, and they complain

420
00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:10,840
Speaker 4: about the smell of the hair color. You finally get

421
00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:12,800
Speaker 4: too tired and a little chilly, so you make your

422
00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:15,520
Speaker 4: way inside. When you wake in the morning, you head

423
00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:17,680
Speaker 4: to the balcony to check on the mess next door.

424
00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:21,120
Speaker 4: There you see the three men running around in panic.

425
00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:25,320
Speaker 4: It's supposed to be brown, one of them yells. Instead,

426
00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:30,200
Speaker 4: you see the horse, and it is bright red, bright red.

427
00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:33,399
Speaker 4: They scramble around the yard, turning on a hose and

428
00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:36,640
Speaker 4: scrubbing the horse down. No chance that'll fix it, you think,

429
00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:39,520
Speaker 4: serves them, right, you mutter as you head downstairs to

430
00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:43,800
Speaker 4: poach yourself in the egg. All right, Cesarah. There we

431
00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:46,679
Speaker 4: are just a couple hours away from race time. And

432
00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:49,080
Speaker 4: the horse that's supposed to be a rich, dark brown

433
00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:52,439
Speaker 4: color is a clownish red and it doesn't have the

434
00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:56,760
Speaker 4: telltale white sauce. In every aspects like looks to ability

435
00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:00,920
Speaker 4: the horse, and no way resembles. So the three guys

436
00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:04,200
Speaker 4: they panic. They run and get spray paint and try

437
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:07,000
Speaker 4: and at least match the legs. So let's just get close.

438
00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:09,600
Speaker 4: But the paint doesn't stick. It just drips down onto

439
00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:15,200
Speaker 4: the hooks. And you know, well they called them socks, right,

440
00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:18,080
Speaker 4: so they didn't have horse socks. So they wrap bandages

441
00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:21,159
Speaker 4: around the hind legs. Okay, fine cotton bandages.

442
00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:22,600
Speaker 2: Only the shadow knows.

443
00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:26,320
Speaker 4: Okay, So as a backup, if people take a look

444
00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:29,000
Speaker 4: at the horse and immediately know it's not Fine.

445
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:29,840
Speaker 3: Cotton from the Red.

446
00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:33,120
Speaker 4: From the Red. Hayden had prepared one of his meth

447
00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:37,720
Speaker 4: bombs for bold personality. It's gross, and the horse was like,

448
00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:39,840
Speaker 4: come on, what do you think? I'm in a Daytona

449
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:43,360
Speaker 4: beach Walmart parking lot, Like, what's up. So one thing

450
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:46,080
Speaker 4: they did have on their side was that so many

451
00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:49,440
Speaker 4: of the track employees and even the police had placed

452
00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:52,800
Speaker 4: loaded bets that they wouldn't mess up their own paydays

453
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:53,480
Speaker 4: and wrap them out.

454
00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:56,400
Speaker 2: Everybody's in on it.

455
00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:00,240
Speaker 4: And then the time came, right, Fine Cotton is going

456
00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:03,720
Speaker 4: to run in race four, a quote novice class for

457
00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:07,879
Speaker 4: emerging races or older horses of limited ability. You know,

458
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:08,760
Speaker 4: that's kind of them.

459
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:10,520
Speaker 3: That's it that way, Yeah, let them run.

460
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:14,840
Speaker 4: So the jockey, his name is Gus Philpott. Yeah, he's

461
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,760
Speaker 4: a local guy who got a call from what he

462
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:20,720
Speaker 4: said was an unknown Brisbane trainer a few days prior.

463
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:23,320
Speaker 4: He's totally in the dark about this. Yeah, of course

464
00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:24,800
Speaker 4: you can't let him know, which.

465
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,399
Speaker 2: Is like, wouldn't he train with this horse? You'd hope.

466
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:27,960
Speaker 2: But whatever.

467
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,840
Speaker 3: They is jockeys and they're pretty good and they have

468
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:31,920
Speaker 3: a good sense of horses.

469
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:34,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, and then this like he's I hope he's wearing

470
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:36,040
Speaker 4: white pants and when he gets off it's.

471
00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:38,200
Speaker 2: All red inside. Okay.

472
00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:41,840
Speaker 4: So on the morning of the race, Fine Cotton's odds

473
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:45,840
Speaker 4: were thirty three to one. That's pretty generous all things considered,

474
00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:52,200
Speaker 4: and then the Australian Broadcasting Corporation wrote, quote, the high

475
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:55,720
Speaker 4: odds on Fine Cotton started to move over the course

476
00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:58,040
Speaker 4: of the morning. They dropped from thirty three to one

477
00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:01,560
Speaker 4: to twenty to one. Sure sign money is coming in

478
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:05,240
Speaker 4: from elsewhere. Then about twenty five minutes before the race,

479
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,320
Speaker 4: when betting on the track officially opens, the odds of

480
00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:11,680
Speaker 4: Fine Cotton start to free fall, from twenty to one

481
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:16,120
Speaker 4: to fifteen to one and stopping at seven to two.

482
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:20,240
Speaker 3: Okay, but I was wondering because like this happens on tracks,

483
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,160
Speaker 3: like when you see the action move, you know, somebody

484
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:25,200
Speaker 3: knows something or there's like a fixes in and people

485
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:27,160
Speaker 3: get they start assuming that so well, and.

486
00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:29,199
Speaker 4: Especially it's like if you have this kind of like

487
00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,840
Speaker 4: garbage race, right, so it's like the horses that are like, oh,

488
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:35,240
Speaker 4: we'll let you do it. There shouldn't be any action

489
00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:39,800
Speaker 4: on a coming in before the track betting open. So yeah,

490
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:43,360
Speaker 4: so racing officer Lester Grimmitt, he's suspicious.

491
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:43,960
Speaker 2: Quote.

492
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:46,479
Speaker 4: My job on the day was to observe the races

493
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:48,840
Speaker 4: and take notes of each horse and also to compile

494
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:52,119
Speaker 4: a steward's report on the day. So the odds start

495
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:55,320
Speaker 4: to shift, he tries to alert the track stewards that

496
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:58,960
Speaker 4: there's something tinky going on, because like people were placing

497
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:03,560
Speaker 4: bets on fine from like Fiji and New Guinea and.

498
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:05,160
Speaker 2: Oh yeah yeah.

499
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:10,360
Speaker 4: But according to ABC quote outside Sydney at the Appen Dogs,

500
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:13,800
Speaker 4: a Catholic priest is madly running between bookies trying to

501
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:17,520
Speaker 4: get everything he has on fine cotton. And that Sydney's

502
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:21,240
Speaker 4: Warwick Farm, a merchant banker is going back again and

503
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 4: again to bet large sums on fine cotton. According to

504
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:28,639
Speaker 4: the Sydney Morning Harold quote, Mona Lewis, the mother of

505
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 4: Queensland Police Commissioner Terry Lewis, arrives at Eagle Farm tightly

506
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 4: clutching her purse and strides purposely to a book maker

507
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,160
Speaker 4: to place one thousand dollars bet on fine cotton, while

508
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 4: her son preens in front of.

509
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 2: A mirror in his bathroom. Comfortable in his corruption.

510
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 3: So some cop is like, ma, you gotta go and

511
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,680
Speaker 3: just take it, get your money down to the bookies, exactly.

512
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:50,640
Speaker 2: And so she's well.

513
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:53,919
Speaker 4: And like Gillespie had talked up the scheme with so

514
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 4: many people.

515
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,040
Speaker 3: It sounds like it, and he met.

516
00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 4: But like one of them was Robbie Waterhouse. He was

517
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:04,760
Speaker 4: the son of notorious bookmaker Big Bill Waterhouse. And so

518
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,680
Speaker 4: this is this is no secret. Everyone wants in on it.

519
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 4: And so there's Bold Personality disguised as Fine Cotton. They

520
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:16,159
Speaker 4: let Bold Personality onto the track even though he looked

521
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:19,720
Speaker 4: nothing like Fine Cotton, and they let him race they did,

522
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:21,200
Speaker 4: and race he did.

523
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:22,879
Speaker 3: So they didn't have to do a meth bombing.

524
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 2: No, no, he got to run clean.

525
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:30,399
Speaker 4: So Fine Cotton, Bold personality, Yeah, fought head and head

526
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:33,639
Speaker 4: through the stretch with Harbor Gold. And from the track,

527
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 4: you know, the announcer is going Harbor Gold, Fine Cotton. Oh,

528
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:39,880
Speaker 4: Fine Cotton is going to hold on by a nose.

529
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:41,919
Speaker 4: He may have held on by a nose. The bookmakers

530
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:46,360
Speaker 4: won't be able to pay, Yeah.

531
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,120
Speaker 2: There there was no way to pay out on all

532
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 2: of this.

533
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:54,200
Speaker 4: So Gillespie, it's just too exactly, So Gillespie's loving it.

534
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 4: He's made a lot of people, many of them very

535
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,959
Speaker 4: scary people, a lot of money. Yes, yes, And so

536
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:05,359
Speaker 4: then this chant rises up from next to the winter

537
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 4: circle and like bookmaker's clerks started shouting wrong horse, wrong horse.

538
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:12,880
Speaker 2: And then they're yelling wake up stewards.

539
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:17,200
Speaker 4: Official inquiry, official inquiry, the bookmaker's.

540
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:20,200
Speaker 3: Official inquiry.

541
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:21,960
Speaker 4: And then it's like longer and longer, like no, take

542
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 4: it back down the wrong horse. People, you're overlapping each other,

543
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:27,160
Speaker 4: so okay, So.

544
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:29,439
Speaker 3: I mean chance can be hard, you know.

545
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 4: Reports on the scene describe the spray paint running down

546
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 4: the horse's legs below the bandages. Yeah, and pretty soon

547
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:43,640
Speaker 4: the crowd itself is chouting, ring and ring and accusing

548
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:43,919
Speaker 4: them a.

549
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 3: Front sweat a lot.

550
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:51,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's just going to eat through that kraalon. So

551
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,360
Speaker 4: the track stewards they make their move. They halted everything.

552
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:59,200
Speaker 4: And please note that this was before the payouts, and

553
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 4: they asked for fine Cotton's identity papers show me papers,

554
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 4: and Hayden didn't have them. So he told the stewarts

555
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 4: that he was pretty sure that he brought them to

556
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 4: the track. Someone must have taken him out of My

557
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 4: Race Day gear Bag podcast. Likely story So remember the

558
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:21,400
Speaker 4: guy who sold the horse to the crew for twenty k.

559
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,199
Speaker 4: He's at the track and he looks over at the

560
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 4: commotion and he notices something that's not fine cotton.

561
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 2: That's his horse. So that's purse, he yells.

562
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 4: So he handed over bold Personalities identification card.

563
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 2: Everything matched up because he still.

564
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,119
Speaker 3: Held the cards. The check had got the paper.

565
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:42,360
Speaker 2: Well yeah, the check hadn't heard.

566
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:44,639
Speaker 3: And he's a good trainer, you know, the good.

567
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 4: Horse person, right, so everything matches up. They're like boys,

568
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 4: we got ourselves an old fashioned ring in. So the

569
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:56,920
Speaker 4: final finish was corrected to read Harbor Gold, Cabaret, Kingdom

570
00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:58,439
Speaker 4: and Grovelly.

571
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 2: Boy, Gravelly boy. I love that.

572
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 4: And so those who placed their bets on fine Cotton,

573
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:07,639
Speaker 4: their bets stood, and that meant that they didn't get

574
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:09,880
Speaker 4: paid and they didn't get their money back either.

575
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:10,920
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, and.

576
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 4: The total of all those bets two million dollars.

577
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 2: Bogus little race. Yeah.

578
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 4: So since they had been the ones really taking up

579
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 4: the bets, Robbie and Bill Waterhouse, they get questioned by

580
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:28,400
Speaker 4: the Australian Jockey Club. And the Jockey Club they're determined

581
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 4: that the Waterhouses they had to know that the substitutions

582
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 4: were in on this betting scheme, and so another son

583
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 4: of Big Bill's, David Waterhouse, he wasn't involved, but he

584
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:43,320
Speaker 4: still wanted to talk about it. He testified that quote

585
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 4: his brother and father bet around eight hundred thousand dollars

586
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 4: on fine cotton off the books, significantly more than the

587
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 4: sixty six thousand of legal betting that Robbie had admitted to.

588
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 3: All right, so who's think.

589
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 2: About that though? Too?

590
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 4: Is that you've got that All we're talking about is

591
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 4: a two million on track. It's the like off the

592
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 4: book stuff like, oh boy, so Robbie's like my brother's

593
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 4: making it all up.

594
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 2: Stop Bill and Robbie.

595
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 4: Big Bill and his son Robbie they get quote warned

596
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 4: off race courses throughout the world. They also had their

597
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 4: book making licenses revoked.

598
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 3: Question. Yeah, his his dude's name is big Bill. He

599
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,240
Speaker 3: ever notices a lot of like bills have size nicknames

600
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 3: like little Bill, big Bill, big Bill, Baronzi. You never

601
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 3: meet like a medium bill, like.

602
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 2: The literation, but a little bit, I don't know.

603
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 3: I've met little bills and big bills, but I've never

604
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 3: met like a lefty medium bill or like a medium

605
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 3: bill or anything else. It's like red bill, you know anyway,

606
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 3: just it's always a sizing. What's up in bills? In size?

607
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 2: So big bill, red bill, medium bill. They don't have their.

608
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 4: Book making licenses, they don't have jobs, they have nothing.

609
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, they got nothing to prove.

610
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 4: And so Robbie he got his racing band overturned in

611
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,480
Speaker 4: nineteen ninety eight eight, and then both he and his

612
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 4: dad got their book making licenses back a few.

613
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 2: Years after that. Really yeah, but what of the crew, Zaren?

614
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 3: How do they get their bookmaking licenses?

615
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 2: Well, they just you.

616
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 4: Know, maybe they do, who knows. So the crew, what

617
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 4: happened to them?

618
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 3: Zaren?

619
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 2: Close your eyes? Wait what, No, I'm kidding.

620
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 4: We're gonna listen to some ads and then I want

621
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 4: you to I'm asking you to close your eyes because

622
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 4: I want you to focus on the products and services offered.

623
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 4: And then when we come back, we're going to talk

624
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 4: about the Fine Cotton Crew, which totally sounds like.

625
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 5: An ll bean item, Zaren, closed, open them up.

626
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 4: So the Fine Cotton Crew, which is a great They

627
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 4: were in the crosshairs of the investigation and they knew it,

628
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:07,959
Speaker 4: so they all went into hiding. Hayden he popped his

629
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 4: head up long enough to do an interview with Australian

630
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 4: sixty minutes. Why yeah, he told them that his life

631
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 4: was in danger.

632
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 3: It's like, well, duh, yeah.

633
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 4: They botched a major payday for gangsters by screwing with

634
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 4: the Switcheroo and then running their mouths about it.

635
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 2: Of course, their lives are in danger.

636
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 3: They told way too many people.

637
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 2: Oh completely.

638
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 4: Less than a month after he's on the show, he

639
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 4: gets arrested. All the law found him at the Truro

640
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 4: motel in South Australia. He gets extradited to Queensland and

641
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 4: the media loved every.

642
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 3: Second of it.

643
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, So he wound up getting six months behind

644
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 4: bars for it, gets banned from Australian racecourses for life. Okay, yeah,

645
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 4: Bobby North, he gets caught too. He did six months

646
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 4: in prison. Remember the trainer, Wendy Smith, She's pretty much

647
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 4: an innocent for the most part, but Queensland racing officials

648
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 4: they just raked her over the coals. Really yeah, they

649
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 4: wanted to know exactly what she knew, why she didn't

650
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 4: tell anyone. She lost her right to enter horses into races,

651
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 4: which meant she couldn't be a professional trainer anymore.

652
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 3: Oh wow, So there's the whole like what did you know?

653
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 3: And when did you know it?

654
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 2: And basically did you tell?

655
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:17,040
Speaker 3: And why did you not?

656
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 2: Yeah?

657
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:21,760
Speaker 4: Exactly, and so she said, quote, I thought, all I've

658
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 4: done in my life is help people and love horses.

659
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 4: It literally broke my heart. I cried and cried because

660
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 4: I knew in my heart I hadn't done anything.

661
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 3: Girl. We just need to get you in front. Don't

662
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 3: worry about this. We just get you somebody with a

663
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 3: good clean paper, right.

664
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 4: Well, she tried to appeal to the High Court to

665
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 4: have the decision overturned, but it was denied. Yeah, she

666
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 4: couldn't train horses anymore. So she did the only logical

667
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 4: next best thing. She got into musical theater. She started

668
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 4: writing these like Gilbert and Sullivan's style shows, including one

669
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 4: called Pirates of Tweedheads.

670
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, so their knockoffs.

671
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 2: So that's her.

672
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:06,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, bold personality never raced again. He's super embarrassed by

673
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 4: the whole thing. I would imagine.

674
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 2: I wonder horses get embarrassed.

675
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 3: They do. Ores have a they have a lot of awareness,

676
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 3: they're very competitive, they're very like not just like territorial,

677
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 3: but I mean like they have ideas about what should

678
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 3: occur and what what another horse should do and shouldn't do.

679
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 4: So I could see that, yeah, I mean because I

680
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 4: know I've seen a dog get embarrassed.

681
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 3: Yeah exactly, like multiple times. Why are you embarrassing different.

682
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 4: Dogs, different scenarios. So fine Cotton lived to the ripe

683
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 4: old age of thirty two.

684
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 3: It's pretty good.

685
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 4: A movie producer bottom and was like trying to pitch

686
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 4: his story for ages. Maybe maybe to this day he

687
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 4: stands in an alleyway trying to pitch the fine.

688
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 7: I know.

689
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 3: Usually producers want to get like ip for a story.

690
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 3: They want to taste too. He bought the horse. He's like,

691
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 3: you just needed to get like option a story. You

692
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 3: didn't need to option the horse.

693
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly.

694
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 3: The horse is not going to be in the movie.

695
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 4: This horse, well maybe because maybe he's the only one

696
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 4: with white socks. So the real question is what happened

697
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 4: to John Gillessie?

698
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 3: What did happened to John?

699
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:09,360
Speaker 4: He's brought to trial naturally, but like actually before he

700
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 4: right beforehand, he goes.

701
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:11,359
Speaker 2: On the lamb.

702
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 3: Okay I figured that.

703
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, so cops they eventually nabbed him while he was

704
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 4: hiding in his sister's cupboard. Whoa yeah, And he got

705
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 4: the longest sentence, four years, and there there was no

706
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 4: rehabilitation for him though. So he got out of prison

707
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 4: and he went to Asia and while he was there

708
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:29,000
Speaker 4: he ran bars.

709
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:29,400
Speaker 6: Oh.

710
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 3: I think he became like a hairdresser because he's good

711
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:33,200
Speaker 3: with color. You know, he's like, I'm in now.

712
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:37,279
Speaker 4: Well, then in nineteen ninety eight he pops up in

713
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:40,440
Speaker 4: police and media reports because it seems like he was

714
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 4: the ringleader of a crew that got busted in the

715
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:47,840
Speaker 4: Philippines for making more than a million US dollars selling

716
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 4: fake passports for the micro nation Dominion of Melchizedek.

717
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 3: Wait whatlck Mikelsi Dick. Yeah, that's the old biblical guy.

718
00:34:57,640 --> 00:34:59,840
Speaker 3: He he he shows up in the Bible. Was his

719
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 3: random like king who's just wandering around and people meet

720
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:05,399
Speaker 3: him and he's just like figure that people run into

721
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 3: in the desert. Kelzie deck Is It's hard hard to explain,

722
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:11,400
Speaker 3: but that's insane, Like to have the micronation of Makelzy

723
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:13,360
Speaker 3: Deck and dominion.

724
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, so they're selling fake passports.

725
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 3: Passports to a micronation it doesn't exist, and people are

726
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:18,800
Speaker 3: like hell, yeah.

727
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:20,319
Speaker 2: And they made more than a million dollars doing this.

728
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 3: Oh my god.

729
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 4: And then he continued scamming, right so by the two

730
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:30,839
Speaker 4: thousands he's investigated for anti wrinkle cream cons. And then

731
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 4: he also had a scam to get people to invest

732
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:36,720
Speaker 4: in this multimillion dollar art collection that didn't exist.

733
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 3: I'm surprised gonna get into NFTs. Oh give them yeaheah, exactly.

734
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:41,919
Speaker 3: I'm sure he did eventually in time.

735
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:44,960
Speaker 2: And then he also kept up with various horse racing cons.

736
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,239
Speaker 3: He dipped into that really yeah, oh yeah, you know,

737
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 3: I know, horse flash.

738
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 2: And then in.

739
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 4: Twenty sixteen his name popped up again, this time in

740
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:55,320
Speaker 4: the Panama.

741
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:59,319
Speaker 2: Paper shone uh huh.

742
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:03,880
Speaker 4: So as you know, enormous document league from Mussak Fonseka

743
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 4: shell company Giant shone a light on the global system

744
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:08,920
Speaker 4: of shadowy finance.

745
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 3: Yes, where the rich their money, all.

746
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 4: These like secretive offshore company totally. So the Panama Papers

747
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:17,440
Speaker 4: showed that after Gillespie got out of prison for the

748
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 4: Fine Cotton stuff, he became a founding director of two

749
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 4: companies incorporated in the Bahamas, the International Millionaires Club.

750
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 2: That's what he called.

751
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:29,840
Speaker 3: Wow, that sounds like something tell you would come up with.

752
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 3: Now part of the Players Club is the International Millionaire's.

753
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 4: Club and then also the International Horse Owners Club. Now

754
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 4: both of those got struck off the registries by nineteen

755
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 4: ninety five.

756
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 2: But wait, there's more more.

757
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 4: So in May of twenty ten, Gillespie gave an interview

758
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 4: with the Sunday Mail. And this this is before the

759
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 4: Panama papers leak, but after his various other custs. So

760
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 4: he said that quote, he and his fellow fraudsters had

761
00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:03,359
Speaker 4: fooled everyone involved him. Fine Cotton was never supposed to win.

762
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 3: They bet the other.

763
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 2: He said that.

764
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:09,960
Speaker 4: He made one point eight million dollars even though there

765
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:12,719
Speaker 4: was a two million dollar loss in bets. He said

766
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 4: he was a double agent.

767
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:15,279
Speaker 3: That's what I was guessing, and that the.

768
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 4: Double sting involved his crime syndicate. To actually back Harbor

769
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:20,440
Speaker 4: Gold to win.

770
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:24,400
Speaker 3: Was wondering, because that's the favorite, if you will, and

771
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 3: if the odds move enough and their odds change and

772
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 3: you can still get like an eight to one payout.

773
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:28,759
Speaker 2: Or any right.

774
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 4: And so they had indeed talked up Fine Cotton like

775
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:32,959
Speaker 4: it was a hot tip.

776
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 3: Sure, a whole lot of people sawers on it.

777
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 4: He told the paper that it all went back to

778
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 4: that underworld bookmaker I mentioned up top mixed Sayers. Yes,

779
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:45,359
Speaker 4: when Sayers brought Gillespie to his house in Sydney back

780
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:48,360
Speaker 4: in nineteen eighty four, they did discuss this ring in,

781
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:51,160
Speaker 4: But what Sayers wanted to talk about is that he

782
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 4: had recently been tricked by a rival in a fixed.

783
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:55,759
Speaker 2: Race and he wanted revenge.

784
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:59,320
Speaker 4: Yaz, So this is getting more and more, Guy Ritchie

785
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 4: to so that. Harold's son reported that quote. Sayers had

786
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:05,319
Speaker 4: been looking for someone who could pull a ring in

787
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:09,320
Speaker 4: and was introduced to Gillespie by notorious armed robber Bertram

788
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:13,240
Speaker 4: Douglas Kidd. The pair had met in Brisbane's Bogo Roade jail.

789
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 3: Wow.

790
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:18,400
Speaker 4: Sayers financed the entire ring in operation, which ultimately netted

791
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:23,080
Speaker 4: him twelve million dollars according to Gillespie, What yeah, So

792
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:28,279
Speaker 4: was Hayden in on this? According to Gillespie, No, Gillespie

793
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:31,760
Speaker 4: had everyone he was working with as well as sayers rival,

794
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 4: convinced that fine Cotton would win and this was the play.

795
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 4: And as for the crowd shouting about the ring in

796
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 4: and calling for the stewards, ye, Gillespie said he and

797
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:45,400
Speaker 4: Sayer's men were the ones who started the chant and

798
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 4: got everyone all gin d up. And so after the wagon, Yeah,

799
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:53,640
Speaker 4: Sayer paid Gillespie his share of the winnings one point

800
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:56,680
Speaker 4: eight million dollars and then Gillespie put it into an

801
00:38:56,719 --> 00:39:00,480
Speaker 4: offshore account. And he said Sayers made at least twelve

802
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:01,560
Speaker 4: million off the whole.

803
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:03,279
Speaker 3: Off of this four seed race.

804
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:04,879
Speaker 2: Uh huh.

805
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:07,479
Speaker 4: Sayers was a bad man with a lot of bad

806
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:11,399
Speaker 4: business besides horse race fixing, So it wasn't shocking when

807
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:14,239
Speaker 4: he met a tragic in the next year nineteen eighty five.

808
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:16,800
Speaker 2: Ah, so he barely got to enjoy that twelve million.

809
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:20,320
Speaker 4: Gillespie said that when he went on the lamb Durnking

810
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:20,920
Speaker 4: by the way.

811
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:22,880
Speaker 3: There, it was revenge against his revenge.

812
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,040
Speaker 4: No, it was a totally separate Yeah, a totally separate thing.

813
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:27,839
Speaker 3: So Gillespie, then what happens with him?

814
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 4: Gillespie He said that when he went on the lamb

815
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 4: during the trial, it was because a Queensland racing minister

816
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 4: warned him that there was a hit out on him.

817
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:36,360
Speaker 3: Oh.

818
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 4: So it wasn't that like, oh, if I run, I

819
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 4: won't have to go to court. It was like I

820
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:40,279
Speaker 4: have to live.

821
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:40,960
Speaker 3: Do you believe it?

822
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 2: Who knows? So Gillespie.

823
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 4: He gets sentenced to four years, but he only did

824
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 4: five months behind bars, and then he had two years

825
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:51,360
Speaker 4: house arrest. And when he went to Asia to quote

826
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:54,799
Speaker 4: run bars, he said he was actually buying them. That

827
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:57,400
Speaker 4: he used his one point eight million to buy restaurants

828
00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:00,359
Speaker 4: and bars in Thailand and Malaysia, and and he got

829
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:04,879
Speaker 4: hooked up in racehorse stuff over there. When he gave

830
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 4: his interview, he said he'd gone on the straight and narrow,

831
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:09,840
Speaker 4: that he was crime free after three hundred and fifty

832
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 4: convictions over the years.

833
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:12,920
Speaker 3: Unbelievable, unbelievable.

834
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 4: So the same year as the Bombshell interview, Hayden spoke

835
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:19,839
Speaker 4: up and he said, quote people have always asked why

836
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 4: I didn't go to the cops.

837
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:23,240
Speaker 2: I say, are you kidding? They were crooks.

838
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:26,880
Speaker 4: It's going to be very interesting when Underbelly, which is

839
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 4: like an investigative reporting thing, covers Queensland, because they are

840
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:33,440
Speaker 4: going to have to tell the full story of Fine Cotton.

841
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 4: There's a book about the whole thing called The Fine

842
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:39,359
Speaker 4: Cotton Fiasco by Peter Hoisted and Pat Shell.

843
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 3: No movie that I know of, not yet.

844
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:47,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, so Zaren, what's your ridiculous takeaway?

845
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:49,800
Speaker 3: So the dominion of mckelzy deck. I just want to

846
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:52,879
Speaker 3: bring it back to do the micronation where they're selling

847
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 3: passports too. You know that I have a show now

848
00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 3: it's called Welcome to Zakistan.

849
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:00,360
Speaker 4: I was hoping you'd talk about that because as I

850
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:02,239
Speaker 4: saw a micronation, I was like, I can't wait to

851
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:02,719
Speaker 4: till zero.

852
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 3: It's exactly so the host and I'm one of the

853
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:08,480
Speaker 3: co hosts, right So, Ryan Murdoch and Gabby Watts, they

854
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:10,600
Speaker 3: were the ones who went out and to micro con

855
00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:13,480
Speaker 3: and in the first episode you hear they go and

856
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 3: meet all these people who are like, oh, I've got

857
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 3: a micronation. I've got a micronation. I've got a micronation,

858
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 3: and you get a sense of how these people are.

859
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:24,920
Speaker 3: It's so ripe for this. Okay, great, but mostly it's

860
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:28,800
Speaker 3: really well meaning people. Anyway, well like seaaland right totally

861
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:31,920
Speaker 3: we covered that one. Yeah, So anyway, check out the

862
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 3: Escape from Zakistan's new podcast. It's so good, so good

863
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:38,720
Speaker 3: the idea of these people. I will I was surprised

864
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:41,279
Speaker 3: that that not more crime has come out of micronations

865
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:43,880
Speaker 3: because you've got the paperwork and the presentation and so

866
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:46,960
Speaker 3: many people online fall for this kind of stuff. It's like, oh, yeah,

867
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:49,359
Speaker 3: we're a country. They're like, oh yeah, you just haven't

868
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:51,880
Speaker 3: heard of it yet. They're like, oh really new country. Awesome,

869
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 3: new country dropped. I mean, people are so like silly

870
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 3: these days. I anyway, I was blown away that they

871
00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 3: got ahead of the curve so early days. That's good. Deck,

872
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:03,360
Speaker 3: what a weird deep pull.

873
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:04,320
Speaker 2: You're right.

874
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:06,879
Speaker 4: Can we talk about how you're the hardest working man

875
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 4: in the podcast business because you've got Rumble that's out

876
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 4: and you've got Zakistan special episodes if you want to

877
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:15,279
Speaker 4: hear Moriz Aaron.

878
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:16,320
Speaker 2: There's a lot of places.

879
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:21,240
Speaker 3: Five episodes a week. Anyway, what's your special takeaway, Elizabeth?

880
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 4: My takeaway is that this is a complete guy Ritchie movie.

881
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:29,640
Speaker 4: Like I could see I can't think of the casting

882
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:31,480
Speaker 4: off the top of my head, but I can see

883
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:32,080
Speaker 4: I could.

884
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:34,320
Speaker 2: See the character type oh totally.

885
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:37,359
Speaker 4: And like the flash cuts and the songs and like,

886
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 4: and I just I love the reveal of the bright

887
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 4: red race.

888
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 3: That was amazing. And also the revenge, the fact that

889
00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:46,799
Speaker 3: this is all a revenge that sealed the deal from

890
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 3: you guy Richie the Red Horse, and then like trying

891
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 3: to die in the backyard trying to die a horse?

892
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 4: I mean, does the producer have the rights? And that's

893
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:56,799
Speaker 4: why this hasn't been made.

894
00:42:57,400 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 3: Something like this you could turn into a movie because

895
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:01,279
Speaker 3: there's plenty of stuff in the new papers. You just

896
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:03,160
Speaker 3: work with that. You don't need to like get the

897
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 3: IP of the book or buy the horse, like homie.

898
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:06,760
Speaker 2: Are you listening, guy Ritchie?

899
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:11,279
Speaker 3: Yeah? Guy seriously called Elizabeth. She got you covered what

900
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:11,920
Speaker 3: I do need.

901
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 4: My other takeaway is how badly I need to talk

902
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 4: back Dave.

903
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:25,920
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I legit.

904
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:32,319
Speaker 6: Hi is Aaron and Elizabeth. I just wanted to share

905
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:35,839
Speaker 6: this really weird during I have last night with both

906
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:38,600
Speaker 6: of you in it. I don't really remember the details

907
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:40,880
Speaker 6: all that well, other than to say that Zaren was

908
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:43,680
Speaker 6: there with me. But the thought that I the part

909
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:46,640
Speaker 6: that I thought was really funny was that Elizabeth was

910
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 6: there narrating the entire thing, and she was doing it

911
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:54,200
Speaker 6: in an accent, although not in the hey everybody, it's

912
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 6: me boys, Just how you'd get a kick out of that.

913
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 2: I love invading people's dreams. I also want to apologize for.

914
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 3: Invading people's dreams. What a rare privilege that is?

915
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:09,560
Speaker 2: I want to know like, what was the action of it? Like,

916
00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:13,320
Speaker 2: you know what happened? What was I narrating? Do tell?

917
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 2: That's it. That's all I have for today.

918
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 4: You can find us online at ridiculous Crime dot com.

919
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 4: Lots of good hilarious merch. We're at Ridiculous Crime on Instagram.

920
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:30,880
Speaker 4: We're also on Blue Sky. I didn't mention Twitter because

921
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:35,480
Speaker 4: can we get off of Twitter? Yeah? Let's email us

922
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:37,920
Speaker 4: Ridiculous Crime at gmail dot com and then.

923
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:41,760
Speaker 2: Please download the free iHeart app. Leave us a talkback,

924
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 2: say something hilarious.

925
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:44,480
Speaker 3: We can put you on this show.

926
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:45,319
Speaker 2: Reach out.

927
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 4: Ridiculous Crime is hosted by Elizabeth Dutton and Zaren Burnett,

928
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 4: produced and edited by Vice president of claral Equine Beauty

929
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:02,799
Speaker 4: Dave Kusten, starring Annie Rutger as Judith. Research is by

930
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:06,000
Speaker 4: Buttery Leather, Marissa Brown and knotted lycra.

931
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:07,120
Speaker 2: Andrea Song Sharpened Hear.

932
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 4: The theme song is by Ruff Lennon, Thomas Lee and

933
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:14,320
Speaker 4: Shiny Spandex. Travis Dutton. Host wardrobe is provided by Botany

934
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:18,120
Speaker 4: five hundred. Guest hair and makeup by Sparkleshot and Mister Andrea.

935
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:23,480
Speaker 4: Executive producers are Silky Tweed, Ben Bollen and Fluffy Wool, Noel.

936
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:34,320
Speaker 7: Brown, Disquime, Say It One More Times Crime.

937
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:38,800
Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio four more podcasts

938
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:42,080
Speaker 1: My heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

939
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:43,880
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.