WEBVTT - Attack of the Creative Brain 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:06.680 Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 0:00:06.680 --> 0:00:14.280 Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 0:00:14.320 --> 0:00:18.120 My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Douglas. Tell me, Julie, 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:20.800 where do how do you stir up your creativity? You've 0:00:20.800 --> 0:00:23.680 got a lot of creativity and that that millionators. How 0:00:23.680 --> 0:00:26.200 do you how do you get it going? Wow? Um? 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:28.560 Do you know what? I usually look at certain books 0:00:28.600 --> 0:00:32.400 that I think you are intriguing or um, sometimes I 0:00:32.479 --> 0:00:34.960 just sit down and write and just try to empty 0:00:34.960 --> 0:00:37.960 out all the goo. Yeah, yeah, what about yourself? Um? 0:00:38.000 --> 0:00:39.760 You know, it depends on the task, I guess, but 0:00:40.560 --> 0:00:43.080 I find music tends to help put on some sort 0:00:43.120 --> 0:00:45.599 of music that seems fitting to you know, if I'm 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:48.680 if it's a particular writing assignment or project, you know, 0:00:48.720 --> 0:00:51.000 like what kind of music would stir me and get 0:00:51.000 --> 0:00:53.960 me into this? Yeah? Um, A little coffee doesn't help, 0:00:54.000 --> 0:00:57.280 I mean doesn't hurt. I mean a lot of coffee doesn't. 0:00:57.280 --> 0:01:00.640 Coffee doesn't help. A small amount of coffee certainly helps. 0:01:01.240 --> 0:01:04.319 But but yeah, it's sort of set in the mood. 0:01:04.360 --> 0:01:06.640 And then of course inspiration from other things. If there's 0:01:06.760 --> 0:01:09.000 you know, look at looking at you think looking at 0:01:09.080 --> 0:01:11.759 at writing that I really like, looking at at art 0:01:11.800 --> 0:01:14.200 that I really like, and just you know, becoming inspired 0:01:14.240 --> 0:01:17.800 and sort of mishmashing ideas together. Yeah, I will say that. 0:01:17.920 --> 0:01:22.240 Um sometimes I'll dance around too, which is a horrible admission, 0:01:22.440 --> 0:01:25.200 but I will. Um, I'll do like kind of eighties 0:01:25.240 --> 0:01:30.440 moves around the furniture and like high kicks and um, 0:01:30.560 --> 0:01:32.880 like do you think I'm kidding, I'm just imagining doing 0:01:32.920 --> 0:01:34.600 like kung fu in your in your living room or 0:01:34.600 --> 0:01:38.080 something to get up. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. There's 0:01:38.120 --> 0:01:41.600 something about movement that's really freeing. And um, I think 0:01:41.600 --> 0:01:43.600 that kind of goes back to that whole thing about 0:01:43.720 --> 0:01:46.400 music and and they're inherently being that part of your 0:01:46.440 --> 0:01:50.320 brain that wants to move get things going anyway. Yeah, 0:01:50.320 --> 0:01:52.640 these are the ways that that, um, you know, we 0:01:53.000 --> 0:01:56.720 kind of throw out the marbles of creativity and have fun. Yeah, 0:01:56.760 --> 0:01:59.640 And the creativity is one of those things everybody wants 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:01.800 to slide to this pie. If you've got a slice 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:03.800 of this pie, you want a bigger slice. Like nobody 0:02:03.800 --> 0:02:06.800 I've never heard anybody say, man, I'm just too creative. 0:02:06.840 --> 0:02:08.639 I wish I was just a little less creative. And 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:10.680 maybe you know, everybody's like, oh, man, I wish I 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:13.720 could you know, you know, you know, even if you 0:02:13.720 --> 0:02:15.600 you're not have you're not you don't have writer's block 0:02:15.720 --> 0:02:17.520 or you're you're not, you know, having trouble coming within 0:02:17.520 --> 0:02:19.400 the ideas, everybody could use a little a little bit more. 0:02:19.440 --> 0:02:22.840 And and also everybody's been trying to understand it. Um, 0:02:22.880 --> 0:02:25.160 you know, besides the fact that you could potentially market 0:02:25.240 --> 0:02:28.280 something to improve creativity, uh, you know, it's just one 0:02:28.320 --> 0:02:30.560 of the big questions about you know, who we are. 0:02:31.000 --> 0:02:34.679 We're a creative species. So what's at the bottom of that? Right? Yeah, 0:02:34.760 --> 0:02:37.120 so what's what is the science behind creativity? If you 0:02:37.120 --> 0:02:39.320 can even look at it that way, which thanks to 0:02:39.520 --> 0:02:41.919 fm r I, once again we have a way that 0:02:41.960 --> 0:02:44.160 we can start to measure these things. So it's not 0:02:44.280 --> 0:02:47.520 just um, you know, certain disciplines that are able to 0:02:48.720 --> 0:02:51.359 you know, expand on the greatness of creativity and how 0:02:51.360 --> 0:02:53.359 we can go after it. We can we can look 0:02:53.360 --> 0:02:54.880 at the muse if we want, but then we can 0:02:54.919 --> 0:02:57.040 also look at fm R I and say, okay, what 0:02:57.040 --> 0:03:00.200 what's actually driving us in this process. There are a 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:02.800 number of different views on it that have come out 0:03:02.840 --> 0:03:05.920 over the years that don't involve moras that that I 0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:08.359 find interesting. Some of these I think we can sort 0:03:08.360 --> 0:03:10.080 of well, we'll just sort of judge these as we 0:03:10.120 --> 0:03:13.840 go through, all right, I will turn on my judging mind. 0:03:14.320 --> 0:03:16.919 Don't turn on the judging mind. We'll discuss it more later. 0:03:17.360 --> 0:03:21.079 But first there's the cognitive view, and uh, this is 0:03:21.160 --> 0:03:23.360 kind of like the basic idea here is that like 0:03:23.400 --> 0:03:26.320 even a computer, if properly programed, could get really creative 0:03:26.639 --> 0:03:29.200 and it's just a matter of you know, data A 0:03:29.320 --> 0:03:33.280 plus data be I will combine into novel or mash 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:35.160 up track you know that kind of just want to 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:37.240 know that you're doing robot hands right now, just just 0:03:37.280 --> 0:03:39.120 so people can get the full effect. Well, we did 0:03:39.160 --> 0:03:41.840 him in yoga last night, So I got all into 0:03:41.880 --> 0:03:45.400 your robot hands. Wo robot yoga. Yeah, the one where 0:03:45.400 --> 0:03:47.120 you lay down on the floor and you make robot hands. 0:03:47.200 --> 0:03:50.400 Now maybe you guys don't do that now, sorry. Mine 0:03:50.400 --> 0:03:54.800 are less robotic, yeah, more touchy feely. Um okay, So 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:57.920 that's one of them. Then there's the psychoanalytic Freudian view, 0:03:58.000 --> 0:04:01.080 and this one, um, I don't know like because this 0:04:01.120 --> 0:04:03.880 one says that creativity is an occurrence of the subconscious. 0:04:03.880 --> 0:04:06.240 All right, well, that's fine, but it also gets into 0:04:06.280 --> 0:04:08.840 the idea of humans attempt to avoid pain through the 0:04:08.880 --> 0:04:12.520 creation of daydreams and dreams and fantasies. And if you 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:15.360 follow this theories, like every like cool creative thing that 0:04:15.400 --> 0:04:19.000 has ever been is us trying to avoid pain? Um, 0:04:19.080 --> 0:04:23.120 which is a is a reaction to like a depressive circumstance. Yeah, 0:04:23.160 --> 0:04:24.919 and just just sort of like I gotta get my 0:04:24.960 --> 0:04:27.080 mind out of this world in this life. I'm gonna 0:04:27.120 --> 0:04:29.640 you know, it's just which which holds up with I 0:04:29.920 --> 0:04:31.320 think the thing is some of the a lot of 0:04:31.320 --> 0:04:33.719 these examples like they can hold up under certain types 0:04:33.760 --> 0:04:36.360 of creativity. And you could say, all right, well there, 0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:38.440 you know, this is an example somebody trying to escape 0:04:38.520 --> 0:04:40.960 some hard circumstances and maybe they're doing a little bit 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:43.400 of dreaming to get out of this world. But then, like, 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:46.120 how do you explain somebody like Bobby McFerrin. Bobby McFerrin 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:49.599 is happy, Bobby mcparents creative. Bobby mcferhin couldn't exist under 0:04:49.640 --> 0:04:52.840 this view. He doesn't need to escape his reality. He 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:57.680 creates his reality exactly. Yeah, he's a happy Um. You know, 0:04:57.760 --> 0:05:00.680 so I think I have problems no, I see that 0:05:00.720 --> 0:05:04.680 because it's limiting. Yeah. Then there's the behaviorals few and 0:05:05.040 --> 0:05:07.280 uh this is uh this one states the creativity is 0:05:07.320 --> 0:05:10.840 a combination of previously know knowledge joined together spot in 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:16.120 with with a lot of spontaneity. Um and uh. And 0:05:16.120 --> 0:05:20.080 it's also you know, it's about conditioned response to two situations. Now, 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:21.760 this one I kind of like it's it is kind 0:05:21.760 --> 0:05:23.680 of like strikes me, kind of the mash up approach, 0:05:24.080 --> 0:05:25.640 you know, where it's like I'm looking at this, I'm 0:05:25.680 --> 0:05:28.480 looking at this. They come together new combinations or new 0:05:28.520 --> 0:05:32.360 ideas and you know, kind of falling into stuff we've 0:05:32.360 --> 0:05:34.640 talked about in the in the Dream Inspiration the Dream 0:05:34.680 --> 0:05:37.360 Inception podcast, we're talking about the brain kind of does 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:41.280 this where it sort of throws things together, different combinations, 0:05:41.560 --> 0:05:44.599 and uh, an insight can sort of emerge from this. Okay, 0:05:44.640 --> 0:05:47.239 because when you say behavioralists, I always think about PF. 0:05:47.279 --> 0:05:51.359 Skinner And then I started thinking about Pavlov's dog and 0:05:51.400 --> 0:05:55.960 could Pavlov's dog have been creative? I guess you. Yeah, 0:05:56.040 --> 0:05:57.720 that's the that's the downside to it, because it does 0:05:57.760 --> 0:06:00.960 We'll make it a situation where this is conditioned response 0:06:01.000 --> 0:06:04.760 to a situation. So Um. So yeah, bs Skinners kind 0:06:04.760 --> 0:06:06.880 of a kill joy to everything drag him into. And 0:06:07.080 --> 0:06:09.760 I mean, I'm not I'm sure the dog was creative, 0:06:09.960 --> 0:06:12.640 probably did get creative time after time after time that 0:06:12.720 --> 0:06:17.000 the bell was rung and it started salivating. Um. Then 0:06:17.040 --> 0:06:20.200 there's the Another one is the intrinsic motivational view, and 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:23.560 this is the the idea that people reach their creative 0:06:23.560 --> 0:06:26.440 potential through the desire for pleasure and the activities that 0:06:26.440 --> 0:06:30.560 they engage in. Um. And of course, the major criticism 0:06:30.560 --> 0:06:33.440 on this is that not all creativity or you know, 0:06:33.520 --> 0:06:36.680 an inventive enterprise comes out of an enjoyment of an activity. 0:06:36.800 --> 0:06:39.720 Now I would I would argue that it helps if 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:43.080 you enjoy it. I mean, I'm I'm having a hard 0:06:43.080 --> 0:06:45.280 time thinking of an example where somebody did something really 0:06:45.279 --> 0:06:48.360 creative and awesome and hated every minute of it. No. 0:06:48.560 --> 0:06:50.320 And i know I've said this like probably a million 0:06:50.320 --> 0:06:52.919 times in the previous podcast, but you know, it's that 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:56.040 whole obsessive quality to it that the mind plays with 0:06:56.080 --> 0:06:59.760 what it loves essentially, right, So that's perhaps why we 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:02.320 perhaps why we dream about certain things, or we just 0:07:02.440 --> 0:07:05.239 keep sort of rotating a certain problem around in our mind. 0:07:05.680 --> 0:07:07.720 Because we want to find this solution you have to 0:07:07.760 --> 0:07:11.400 take a totally non scientific slant on It's kind of 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:14.600 like the whole you can taste the love thing about food, 0:07:14.680 --> 0:07:17.640 you know, like this this meal is prepared by somebody 0:07:17.680 --> 0:07:19.800 who's really into and you can taste the love and 0:07:19.840 --> 0:07:22.200 this meal was made in a factory, and there's you know, 0:07:22.400 --> 0:07:26.080 love is not on the list of crazy um, long 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:31.320 winded ingredients hydrogen hydrogenated peanut oil, love, high pre dost 0:07:31.320 --> 0:07:33.280 corn syrup. So but but I think there's a you know, 0:07:33.320 --> 0:07:34.600 there's a sense of that and a lot of things. 0:07:34.640 --> 0:07:36.360 It's like if if someone doesn't care about it, if 0:07:36.360 --> 0:07:39.040 they're not passionate about they're not obsessed at least on 0:07:39.080 --> 0:07:40.640 some level with it. If the brain is not, like 0:07:40.640 --> 0:07:43.680 you say, playing with what it loves, then you can 0:07:43.840 --> 0:07:46.320 you can generally tell because it's kind of it's gonna 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:51.040 be crap. Yeah. Yeah, I'm also thinking to you about coffee, 0:07:51.040 --> 0:07:54.360 since you've already mentioned it and that great ted talk 0:07:54.480 --> 0:07:57.400 that you sent me. Oh yes, yes, about where just 0:07:57.480 --> 0:08:01.320 creativity come from? Yeah, coffee, Yeah, because the argument there 0:08:01.360 --> 0:08:05.920 was that before coffee really integrated European society, people were 0:08:06.040 --> 0:08:08.640 drinking water, because this stuff will make you sick. So 0:08:08.680 --> 0:08:12.400 what do you drink all day alcohol exactly all day long, 0:08:12.760 --> 0:08:17.440 morning tonight, just a complete stupor for centuries. Yeah. And 0:08:17.440 --> 0:08:20.280 this is Steven Johnson, right, he's a writer and a 0:08:20.280 --> 0:08:24.120 founder of Feed magazine. And uh, he was talking about that. 0:08:24.160 --> 0:08:26.080 He was saying like, look here here, you have a 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:30.280 depressant alcohol for all of this time, you know, up 0:08:30.320 --> 0:08:33.920 until like the sixteen hundreds and then boom coffee houses. Yeah, 0:08:34.600 --> 0:08:36.680 you not only have the stimulant, but you also have 0:08:36.760 --> 0:08:40.839 the culture in the interaction, the interaction, the flow of ideas, 0:08:41.240 --> 0:08:43.000 and all of a sudden, the Age of Enlightenment is 0:08:43.000 --> 0:08:48.480 starting to percolate in the UK, which is really interesting. Yeah, 0:08:48.640 --> 0:08:52.760 elsewhere it's still fer minute right, yes, too far. I 0:08:52.800 --> 0:08:56.400 don't know I like that. Um well, let's get into 0:08:56.480 --> 0:08:58.600 one more view take on this before we get into 0:08:58.840 --> 0:09:02.160 the more scientific stuff, and that is the developmental view 0:09:02.559 --> 0:09:04.920 and that this one is another one I really don't like. 0:09:05.000 --> 0:09:07.320 This is this one sounds like you know, the the 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:10.880 hard uh you know, this hard faced father that doesn't 0:09:10.920 --> 0:09:13.160 want his child to uh, you know, to to write 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:15.200 poetry but wants him to play for the football team. 0:09:15.360 --> 0:09:21.079 Kind of a thing because it's uh in general, right, well, 0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:23.760 at least she's you know, making them play the piano 0:09:23.920 --> 0:09:33.520 or very creative instrument. This presentation is brought to you 0:09:33.559 --> 0:09:42.199 by Intel Sponsors of Tomorrow. So this one maintains that 0:09:42.240 --> 0:09:46.120 the majority of creative behavior exists in younger life and 0:09:46.240 --> 0:09:49.920 uh and and it's these these younger developmental years that 0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:52.840 that stirs to become creative. And then as as we 0:09:52.880 --> 0:09:55.520 grow out of that, we grow out of such foolish 0:09:55.559 --> 0:09:59.600 ideas as creating things that are beautiful. Yeah, we get 0:09:59.600 --> 0:10:02.920 down to the hard science of the let's see, that's 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:05.960 the other thing. So something inside his dies, something inside 0:10:06.000 --> 0:10:08.280 of dies. We get older, and you know, I think 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:09.960 this is one of those that you can sort of 0:10:10.360 --> 0:10:12.360 I don't agree with it, but if you hold it up, 0:10:12.360 --> 0:10:14.520 you can say, oh, well look at this this artist. 0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:16.600 They sure did run out of good ideas as they 0:10:16.640 --> 0:10:19.839 got older. But but then you see so many people 0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:21.880 who are just contrary to the rule. Like one of 0:10:21.880 --> 0:10:24.640 my one of my favorite authors is this guy, Brian McNaughton. 0:10:25.040 --> 0:10:26.560 And it wasn't ntil the end of his life that 0:10:26.559 --> 0:10:29.400 he wrote like it's this really awesome collection of short 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:31.280 stories called Thrown of Bones and it was like the 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:33.120 last thing he really wrote, and then he kind of 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:34.760 and then he kind of trickled off and died, but 0:10:34.760 --> 0:10:37.000 he broke that like blow into his uh like into 0:10:37.040 --> 0:10:39.839 his fifties. I think. So. I was actually looking at 0:10:39.880 --> 0:10:43.800 some research on peak ears depending on different disciplines, and 0:10:44.160 --> 0:10:49.600 it turns out that writers actually peak after their forties generally, 0:10:50.200 --> 0:10:54.840 and that poets like twenties and then it's over. I 0:10:54.920 --> 0:10:57.679 know it's very odd, but I wonder if it kind 0:10:57.679 --> 0:10:59.960 of goes back to that idea that there's there's something 0:11:00.440 --> 0:11:04.160 um intrinsic to the way that you are looking at 0:11:04.160 --> 0:11:07.120 the world when everything is fresh and new. Yeah, or 0:11:07.160 --> 0:11:10.280 maybe the writers somehow avoid getting a real job into 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:13.760 the mid forties and the poets able to find the 0:11:13.920 --> 0:11:16.560 gain game for employee. Yeah, yeah, that's right. They didn't 0:11:16.600 --> 0:11:19.160 really widen the circumstances of the studies they were looking 0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:22.240 at to include that information. So it's very possible. Um. 0:11:22.280 --> 0:11:24.079 But you know, when I think about creativity, I always 0:11:24.080 --> 0:11:26.480 think about the right brain. You have to say, I 0:11:26.679 --> 0:11:28.720 was one of those people who thought, okay, this is 0:11:29.040 --> 0:11:30.439 you know, I'm a right brain person or I'm a 0:11:30.520 --> 0:11:33.360 left brain person, and that seems to be something that 0:11:33.480 --> 0:11:36.280 is completely inaccurate that came out of some sort of 0:11:36.320 --> 0:11:39.280 seventies notion of personality tests. Yeah, but people loved it 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:42.200 because it has this sort of star bellied sneeches kind 0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:44.120 of a thing to it, where it's and it's like 0:11:44.120 --> 0:11:46.120 it's a it's a war between the creatives and the 0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:48.679 non creatives. It's the left brain versus the right bright 0:11:48.840 --> 0:11:51.440 and this idea of an internal struggle too. Yeah. But 0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:54.319 and in fact it's actually a lot more nuanced than that. 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:58.000 In the the conclusion from one study by surgeon and 0:11:58.080 --> 0:12:01.600 jazz musician Charles Limb, who will now refer to as 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:05.280 the Jazz Doctor Jazz doctor, and and that is that 0:12:05.320 --> 0:12:07.880 there is no single creative area of the brain. So 0:12:07.920 --> 0:12:10.680 there's no focal activation of a single area, which is 0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:13.280 really important. Yeah, You've got a whole lot of stuff 0:12:13.320 --> 0:12:15.720 going on there. And it's it's not like you can say, look, 0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:18.960 there's the creativity right there. It's you look at these 0:12:19.160 --> 0:12:21.240 f m r I s that people of engaging in 0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:25.280 creative activities, and it's you know, it's throughout the brain. 0:12:25.360 --> 0:12:28.559 It's not like, you know, just one little portion lighting up. Yeah. 0:12:28.640 --> 0:12:30.600 And when they were looking at some of these activities 0:12:30.640 --> 0:12:32.480 to a lot of them were music based ones. And 0:12:32.520 --> 0:12:35.600 we saw this when we were doing research for music 0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:39.120 and the brain. Same thing, like the entire head is 0:12:39.679 --> 0:12:42.240 or the entire brain is lighting up like a pinball machine. 0:12:43.000 --> 0:12:45.360 So that's that's the interesting part about this. You know, 0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:47.920 you've got language, you've got the seat of judgments, so 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:50.640 on and so forth. Yeah. I was really impressed with 0:12:50.640 --> 0:12:53.040 this one and that they had like a special keyboard 0:12:53.880 --> 0:12:56.839 uh created that could basically go inside the f m 0:12:56.920 --> 0:12:59.560 R I, which again the fm R. I've ever seen 0:13:00.160 --> 0:13:03.280 people going into a giant, you know, big big square 0:13:03.280 --> 0:13:04.679 device with a little hole in it, and you know 0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:05.840 they put them in. They have you have to be 0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:08.000 real real still like that's the f m R I. 0:13:08.559 --> 0:13:11.720 And and so they had to create this little keyboard 0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:14.839 that they could the jazz musicians could could do a 0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:17.240 little improv piano playing on while they were in it. 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:18.920 So and they had to create it so they had 0:13:18.920 --> 0:13:21.200 like you know, minimal interference with the fMRI I and 0:13:21.240 --> 0:13:23.760 it sent like a MIDI signal to a computer and 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:27.040 then and then that was so they could hear it back. Yeah, um, 0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:29.400 which is yeah, so incredible thing of course the jazz 0:13:29.440 --> 0:13:32.319 doctor would do that, right, And again that's Charles Limb. 0:13:32.360 --> 0:13:35.080 He's looking at these m R scans of jazz musicians 0:13:35.120 --> 0:13:39.000 and rappers, Yeah, freestyle rappers. This part was really amazing too, 0:13:39.000 --> 0:13:41.480 where he's getting like he's looking like with the number 0:13:41.480 --> 0:13:44.440 of Baltimore area hip hop artists and like getting them 0:13:44.440 --> 0:13:46.040 in put throwing him in the f m R I 0:13:46.240 --> 0:13:48.920 and and just getting them the freestyle and yeah, and 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:50.600 this is the cool thing. This is this is how 0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:54.200 he created the study is with the jazz musicians, he 0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:56.480 had them learn a piece of music that he wrote 0:13:56.559 --> 0:13:59.680 that was only familiar to him, and then he asked 0:13:59.720 --> 0:14:02.480 them to play it back and they scanned their brains 0:14:02.679 --> 0:14:05.079 and then he asked them, Okay, can you improvise on this? 0:14:05.640 --> 0:14:08.640 They looked at the improvisation in the brain scanning. At 0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:11.400 the same time, same thing with the rappers. They had 0:14:11.400 --> 0:14:15.559 the rappers rap something that the jazz doctor wrote. Just 0:14:15.559 --> 0:14:17.760 pretty fun. It's actually pretty good for like a non rapper, 0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:23.520 Um says me, who has no experience in the rap world. 0:14:23.680 --> 0:14:26.920 It's it's adorable, but I don't know that it is. Okay, 0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:30.000 you're right, it's a it's adorable rapping. And then there 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:34.040 are certain words that are highlighted in this um, in 0:14:34.120 --> 0:14:39.400 this prepared jazz ex excusing on jazz rap that Dr 0:14:39.560 --> 0:14:43.000 Jazz says, Okay, now, rapper, can you take those at 0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:46.160 certain cues, take those words, and now you start to freestyle, 0:14:46.360 --> 0:14:49.080 you start to im improvise on this. And what's really 0:14:49.080 --> 0:14:51.600 interesting is they found that there are a couple parts 0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:55.480 of the brain that that went really quiet during the improvisation. 0:14:56.240 --> 0:15:01.640 And this is the brains dorsal lateral prefrontal and lateral 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:05.720 overtald regions. Okay, just for the just for the record, 0:15:05.760 --> 0:15:08.080 I'm touching that part of my head, okay, yeah, and 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:10.640 that's the seat of judgment. So what that was telling 0:15:10.720 --> 0:15:14.480 us is that in order to improvise to reach what 0:15:14.600 --> 0:15:16.600 I think is sort of like an apex of creativity, right, 0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:19.680 because if you're just free forming anything, then you're really 0:15:19.680 --> 0:15:23.920 relying on um not just your own past experiences, but 0:15:23.960 --> 0:15:27.320 you're really playing with form. And so that part that's 0:15:27.360 --> 0:15:30.400 like oh they're no good, Oh stop doing that, which 0:15:30.400 --> 0:15:33.880 is called the observer effect actually in writing, Yeah, that 0:15:33.920 --> 0:15:37.160 part goes quiet. So we know that in order to 0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:39.320 reach that sort of state, you have to be able 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:41.560 to get in some sort of flow. Okay, so this 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:43.120 is yeah, this is the flow moment. And this is 0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:45.160 like when you're writing and somewhat you don't even realize 0:15:45.160 --> 0:15:47.720 that the music has stopped playing and you're just going yeah, yeah. 0:15:47.760 --> 0:15:50.400 And then what they saw is that the medial prefrontal 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:55.440 cortex was going nuts. Um. And they also the and 0:15:55.440 --> 0:15:58.640 then allows self expression by the way, so you know, 0:15:58.680 --> 0:16:02.200 there's there's an actual hard data here, as much as 0:16:02.280 --> 0:16:04.640 it can be with fm R I that points to 0:16:05.160 --> 0:16:06.880 at least this one part of it. We know that 0:16:06.920 --> 0:16:09.640 we have to be in this sort of frame of mind. 0:16:10.360 --> 0:16:12.560 And it actually falls in line with any if anybody 0:16:12.560 --> 0:16:15.280 out there has ever taken an improv class. Um, you 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:18.360 know that is I recall from like acting classes back 0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:21.000 in college. Um, you know, they're always like, you know, 0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:23.120 don't don't think of don't you know, don't bring your 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:25.680 judgment into it. Just go with it. Just you know, 0:16:25.760 --> 0:16:29.400 don't don't worry about looking like a fool because because 0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:30.920 that's gonna that's gonna get in the way of doing 0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:34.560 something which like for nine percent of the population, is 0:16:34.640 --> 0:16:36.920 really hard to do. Yeah, I mean, I think it's 0:16:36.920 --> 0:16:38.960 the same and anytime you create something and you're going 0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:41.440 out on all them and you've got to You've gotta 0:16:41.480 --> 0:16:44.160 be on one level, you've gotta be confident in what 0:16:44.200 --> 0:16:46.080 you're doing, but also just kind of like, yeah, some 0:16:46.120 --> 0:16:49.040 people may not dig it, and we're gonna roll with that. 0:16:49.160 --> 0:16:51.760 I do that every time I get behind this microphone. 0:16:51.760 --> 0:16:54.520 I guess, yeah, me too. Um, but yeah, I mean 0:16:54.520 --> 0:16:55.960 you have to have a passion for it too, right, 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:58.480 So there that that's where that comes into play. You 0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:01.280 want to be able to have fun with it and 0:17:01.560 --> 0:17:05.000 um and hang out with whatever format you are using, 0:17:05.040 --> 0:17:07.720 whether or not it's podcasting or um, whether or not 0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:11.600 it's scientific research or astrophysicists, all of that creativity comes 0:17:11.600 --> 0:17:13.800 into play. Well, that's something that, Yeah, that also is 0:17:13.800 --> 0:17:15.600 important to stress about, Like the whole idea of what 0:17:15.720 --> 0:17:17.960 word is creativity come from. There's also this kind of 0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:24.120 false dichonomy between like artistic creativity and scientific creativity. Yeah, 0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:26.480 it's kind of that's sort of been like gangs, you know, 0:17:26.560 --> 0:17:28.840 like East Side West Side in the past because they 0:17:28.880 --> 0:17:31.320 never thought that the two would meet. But since we're 0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:33.879 learning so much more about how creat creativity works, we 0:17:33.920 --> 0:17:37.200 realize that it's across the board. Um. And in fact, 0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:39.880 and that actually makes me think about that Stephen Johnson 0:17:40.280 --> 0:17:45.000 ted video because he talks about that sort of improv 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:48.240 that happens um. And he used the example of when 0:17:48.480 --> 0:17:52.959 spot nick was launched and how there were some astrophysicists 0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:55.400 hanging around and someone was like, hey, can you guys 0:17:55.440 --> 0:17:58.480 figure out the trajectory of that? Can you do those 0:17:58.520 --> 0:18:01.960 front words and backwards? And just as a you know, okay, 0:18:02.040 --> 0:18:03.680 well we'll just sit down and do this for eight 0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:07.600 hours sort of thing. We're playing with that data, which 0:18:07.760 --> 0:18:11.800 led to what we now know is GPS. Right, it's 0:18:11.840 --> 0:18:14.920 just so cool. It's not even something they set out 0:18:14.920 --> 0:18:16.800 to do. It's just sort of a game for them. 0:18:17.080 --> 0:18:18.960 Another thing that I wanted to talk about too, in 0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:22.639 terms of myths is that there's this lone creative genius idea. 0:18:22.840 --> 0:18:26.040 So again talking about these astrophysicists who got together on 0:18:26.080 --> 0:18:29.280 this problem. Um, you know that that flies in the 0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:31.359 face of what we always think of as this person, 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:34.840 you know, toiling away at whatever they're doing and having 0:18:34.880 --> 0:18:37.679 that Eureka moment, when in fact we know that it 0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:40.639 really takes a village, so to speak. UM. And that 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:43.400 usually and of course it can be a solitary endeavor, 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:45.520 but it's not usually something that just happens out of 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:48.360 the blue. It's usually um something that someone's been working 0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:51.359 on for a really long time. And it's almost like 0:18:51.680 --> 0:18:54.919 um in terms of groups, sort of like emergency we 0:18:54.920 --> 0:18:58.080 talked about in that podcast, where everybody is pooling their 0:18:58.119 --> 0:19:03.680 intelligence and that's creating all of this um really interesting 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:06.400 innovative ways to look at a problem and to tackle it. 0:19:06.880 --> 0:19:08.880 And I was even thinking about someone like the artist 0:19:08.960 --> 0:19:11.879 Damian Hurst, who has done like the huge puppy dog sculpture. 0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:15.160 I don't think I've seen that. Yeah, it's it's amazing. 0:19:15.200 --> 0:19:16.480 I don't even I want to say. It's like a 0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:19.840 hundred feet high, and um, he's none different versions of them, 0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:23.399 and you know it's it's a highly polished veneer. It 0:19:23.400 --> 0:19:26.359 looks like metal and it reflects back the person looking 0:19:26.400 --> 0:19:28.800 at it, and for some reason it's really mesmer I 0:19:28.840 --> 0:19:31.159 think it's very cool. Anyway, He's done a lot of 0:19:31.200 --> 0:19:33.760 this sort of um pop art, as suppose you could 0:19:33.800 --> 0:19:35.639 call it. But the fact of the matter is that 0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:38.800 this guy has a huge team of artists working under him, 0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:43.280 who feed him ideas, who come up with color samples 0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:45.800 and so it's not like just Damian Hirst sitting there 0:19:45.840 --> 0:19:48.080 being a genius. So it's kind of like the Mr 0:19:48.080 --> 0:19:52.280 Brainwash Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, from the documentary exit through 0:19:52.320 --> 0:19:55.600 the Yes yeah, so yeah. I mean he's relying on 0:19:56.119 --> 0:19:58.400 a lot of different people to get together on these ideas, 0:19:58.400 --> 0:19:59.960 and of course he's you know, I guess you could 0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:03.679 say that he's the person who's directing the project, but 0:20:04.359 --> 0:20:06.600