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Speaker 1: Hey everybody, it's me, W. Kamau Bell. Welcome to episode

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Speaker 1: 18 of my podcast, Who's With Me? With me, W.

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Speaker 1: Kamau Bell. This episode is with me talking to comedian

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Speaker 1: Guy Branum. Guy is an old friend of mine from

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Speaker 1: the San Francisco comedy scene. Even though we're around the

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Speaker 1: same age, when we met in the San Francisco comedy scene,

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Speaker 1: I was more established than he was. He had just started.

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Speaker 1: Very quickly, Guy revealed himself to be a big thinker,

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Speaker 1: a good comedy writer. And shortly after he started, he

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Speaker 1: was off to LA to make his name. He has

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Speaker 1: worked as a comedy writer for years, most recently on

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Speaker 1: the HBO show Hacks. He's also an actor. Just got

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Speaker 1: back from Edinburgh with his one-man show, Be Fruitful. As

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Speaker 1: we recorded this, he was about to go there. So

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Speaker 1: he's been there now, and he's been actually social media-ing

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Speaker 1: a lot about the fact that he's had trouble with

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Speaker 1: flights getting back home from Edinburgh. So follow him on Instagram.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, before we get too far in the episode...

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Speaker 1: Let's remind you of my stand-up dates. Stanford, Connecticut, 25th

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Speaker 1: and 26th. Stanford, Connecticut, at the New York Comedy Club.

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Speaker 1: I'll be at Stanford University, October 1st. Bellingham, Washington, February 20th, 2027.

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Speaker 1: Pre-ordered my debut children's book, Rock, Paper, Scissors, Cheese. It's

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Speaker 1: a book for young readers. It's a picture book. Beautiful pictures.

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Speaker 1: Features my family. You can pre-order that now. If you

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Speaker 1: pre-order it from Barnes & Noble right now, you get 25% off.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, also, this whole thing is based on my

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Speaker 1: sub stack who's with me, so go subscribe to my

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Speaker 1: sub stack. It's the best way to keep up with

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Speaker 1: me and everything that's going on. If you just follow

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Speaker 1: me on sub stack, it's free, or you can throw

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Speaker 1: me a few bones because I have three children. Uh,

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Speaker 1: last week's episode was with Ken Jennings. Uh, yeah, that

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Speaker 1: stirred up a lot of feelings. Um, we, we got aggregated, which,

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Speaker 1: you know, every now and again, podcasts, this podcast has

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Speaker 1: made a little bit of like outside of the podcast

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Speaker 1: space news. And, uh, because Ken on the podcast talked

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Speaker 1: about how, He's not going to let the fact he's

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Speaker 1: the host of Jeopardy stop him from sharing his feelings

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Speaker 1: about the state of this country. And he's pro-trans, he's anti-ice,

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Speaker 1: and he's pro-intellectualism, which is clear because he's on Jeopardy.

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Speaker 1: And so he shared a lot about his feelings on

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Speaker 1: those issues. And it got aggregated into Ken Jennings goes

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Speaker 1: at MAGA. I think one headline from the Daily Beast

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Speaker 1: says Ken Jennings uses Jeopardy to go at MAGA, which

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Speaker 1: is not what he said. I don't think we said

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Speaker 1: the word MAGA in the show. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: we even said the word Trump. But Ken is very

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Speaker 1: clear about whose side of the line he wants to

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Speaker 1: be on. He's with us. Podcast is who's with me.

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Speaker 1: Ken Jennings is with us. And, you know, and so

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Speaker 1: a lot of people turn that into headlines and sort

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Speaker 1: of manipulate what he said. You know, as if he

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Speaker 1: was somehow using Jeopardy as a platform to go after MAGA.

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Speaker 1: He's not doing that. But the funny thing is, is

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Speaker 1: that as we said in the episode, when you're pro facts,

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Speaker 1: you're automatically like controversial and political these days. So that's

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Speaker 1: how I got manipulated into being about MAGA. And then

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Speaker 1: I shared a segment from the podcast on my Instagram

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Speaker 1: where Ken talks about how his faith has helped him

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Speaker 1: through his sort of wild success of not only winning

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Speaker 1: Jeopardy and winning $ 3 million, but also becoming the host,

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Speaker 1: how he has relied on his faith. He's a member

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Speaker 1: of the LDS, a Mormon, if you call it that,

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Speaker 1: which they don't call it that anymore. And a lot

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Speaker 1: of people who think they're with me on social media

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Speaker 1: really wanted to make an issue of the fact that

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Speaker 1: he's saying that you can't be a good person without

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Speaker 1: being religious. When what he was saying is, I rely

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Speaker 1: on my religion to be a good person, which I

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Speaker 1: think we should be okay with. And even if we

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Speaker 1: don't think that that religion does the best whatever, if

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Speaker 1: we don't like that religion... I find it is true

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Speaker 1: that in every major religion, there are bad examples of

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Speaker 1: the religion and there are good examples of the religion.

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Speaker 1: It tends to be that the loudest examples of any

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Speaker 1: religion tend to be the bad examples often or the examples,

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Speaker 1: the loudest, most sort of publicized, the ones the media promotes.

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Speaker 1: And so certainly when you are a member of the

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Speaker 1: LDS church, there's been a lot of publicizing of the

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Speaker 1: specific like Utah religion. mormons and the big love version

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Speaker 1: of it and we sort of tear into the beliefs

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Speaker 1: of what what how this religion believes strange things but

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Speaker 1: if you tear into any religion they all believe they're

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Speaker 1: they're all things they're like hmm maybe that was just

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Speaker 1: a metaphor that people took too seriously you know and

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Speaker 1: also if you're an atheist all i ask is don't

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Speaker 1: be an annoying atheist i've i've talked about atheism before

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Speaker 1: uh you know i'm i'm fine if you don't believe

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Speaker 1: in god but don't be the don't be a bill

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Speaker 1: maher atheist that's all i ask if you other people

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Speaker 1: believe in their religion Let them believe in their religion.

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Speaker 1: If it's not hurting you, also, if they say that

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Speaker 1: their religion is helping them, then let it help them.

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Speaker 1: This is when I really feel happy that I grew

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Speaker 1: up in Alabama, spent a lot of time in Alabama,

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Speaker 1: and spent a lot of time in churches as a kid,

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Speaker 1: black churches, so I could see examples of religion and

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Speaker 1: faith that were positive, so that even though I live

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Speaker 1: on the West Coast, and people go to church out here,

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Speaker 1: just to be clear. People like to think that people

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Speaker 1: on the coastal elites don't go to church. A lot

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Speaker 1: of coastal people are regular people just like the rest

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Speaker 1: of the country and they go to church. But the

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Speaker 1: idea being that like somehow being a person of faith

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Speaker 1: or a person of religion means you're not, that you're

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Speaker 1: sort of like not smart. And I think Ken is

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Speaker 1: challenging that by his various existence. Cause the last thing

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Speaker 1: we can call Ken Jennings is not smart. And yet

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Speaker 1: he also is a person of faith. And I think

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Speaker 1: it is very possible for those two things to exist

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Speaker 1: in one body. Uh, Just like it's possible to be

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Speaker 1: a smart person who's not a person of faith, just

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Speaker 1: like it's possible to be a good person who's not

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Speaker 1: a person of faith. It's, guess what? Life is complicated.

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Speaker 1: Human beings are complicated. And this podcast is about finding

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Speaker 1: those of us who want to be on the correct

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Speaker 1: side of history and actually want to be engaged in

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Speaker 1: doing something about it. Ken is that person. And if

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Speaker 1: you don't think Ken is that person, then you're not

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Speaker 1: with me. Last week was the 25th anniversary of 9-11.

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Speaker 1: So last Friday was 9-11, 2026, 25 years since 9-11.

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Speaker 1: It really sort of is amazing to me that it's

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Speaker 1: been that long. I'm of the age where I was

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Speaker 1: an adult when 9-11 happened. And it blows my mind

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Speaker 1: that there are people who are adults walking around who

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Speaker 1: don't remember 9-11, who weren't born when 9-11 happened. You're

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Speaker 1: in an office in a professional setting and you're talking

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Speaker 1: to people and then something comes out, oh, you're 25.

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Speaker 1: You know what I mean? It also is so clear

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Speaker 1: to me that when it happened, it felt like the

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Speaker 1: nation would never be the same. We learned the wrong

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Speaker 1: lessons from 9-11. We didn't learn the lessons of we

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Speaker 1: should come together and be unified and that America is

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Speaker 1: made up of lots of different types of people, but

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Speaker 1: who all have the same goals and wants or should

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Speaker 1: have the same goals and wants of like good schools,

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Speaker 1: good protection, good policing, uh, good opportunities that we should

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Speaker 1: all be sort of that we should, that's how we

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Speaker 1: should stand up to the world is by being a

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Speaker 1: country that is lots of different types of people who

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Speaker 1: get along and have each other's best interest at heart,

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Speaker 1: that that should have been the response to 9-11. But

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Speaker 1: really the two responses to 9-11 that I remember the most, uh,

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Speaker 1: one was, and if you're, if you're my age or

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Speaker 1: older to remember 9-11, if you see something, say something.

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Speaker 1: That was the first thing I remember from 9-11 happening

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Speaker 1: is that because 9-11 was about these terrorists taking over

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Speaker 1: these hijacking these airplanes, there was all this talk about

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Speaker 1: why didn't anybody stop them or why didn't anybody know

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Speaker 1: what was happening. But anyway, the idea being that you

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Speaker 1: see something, say something. So we were all starting to

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Speaker 1: police other Americans. If I see something, I should say something.

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Speaker 1: But then the question is what becomes something? And as

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Speaker 1: a black man, people always see black people and think

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Speaker 1: we're doing something. when we're not, it's a regular occurrence.

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Speaker 1: So that's a scary idea to be like, you're giving

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Speaker 1: everybody even more permission to watch over me and to

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Speaker 1: watch over us. Uh, so if you see something, say something,

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Speaker 1: and that feel like it has led directly to the

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Speaker 1: flock cameras we have now that the surveillance state became

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Speaker 1: a thing we were all excited for. Oh, we just

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Speaker 1: need more cameras to pay attention to everybody because we,

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Speaker 1: so we can watch everybody. I'm so happy to see

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Speaker 1: that like many communities around this country are rejecting the

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Speaker 1: flock cameras. I think Albany, California right near me just

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Speaker 1: rejected them. Um, and also, individual people are just getting

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Speaker 1: up and taking them down. You know, that we're not,

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Speaker 1: we don't want to be mass surveilled because one, there's

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Speaker 1: no reason for it. And two, they often prove, they

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Speaker 1: often accuse people of doing things they didn't do, even

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Speaker 1: though the cameras are supposed to be right all the time.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, so that's the first thing I remember from 9-11.

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Speaker 1: The other thing I remember from 9-11 is our president,

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Speaker 1: George W. Bush, saying in many different ways, the way

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Speaker 1: to fix this problem is to go shopping. Prove to

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Speaker 1: the terrorists that they didn't win by spending your money,

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Speaker 1: by buying stuff. I don't know if it was the

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Speaker 1: original retail therapy, but it's the first example I remember

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Speaker 1: of like, oh my God, this sad thing happened and

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Speaker 1: many thousands of people died. What should we do? And

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Speaker 1: the president said, go shopping. I even found this quote

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Speaker 1: that sounds fake, but it's in the New York Times,

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Speaker 1: so I'm going to assume it's real. It says, this

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Speaker 1: is from days after 9-11, George W. Bush. When they struck,

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Speaker 1: they wanted to create an atmosphere of fear. And one

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Speaker 1: of the great goals of this nation's war, again, this

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Speaker 1: is days after 9-11, It's to restore public confidence in

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Speaker 1: the airline industry. Is that one of the goals of

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Speaker 1: the war on terror? Okay. It is to tell the

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Speaker 1: traveling public, get on board. Do your business around the country.

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Speaker 1: Fly and enjoy America's great destination spots. He's doing a

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Speaker 1: tourism ad. Get down to Disney World in Florida. He

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Speaker 1: actually said Disney World specifically. Take your families and enjoy

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Speaker 1: life the way we want it to be enjoyed. And

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Speaker 1: because of the war in Iraq, that didn't make any

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Speaker 1: sense because the terrorism didn't have anything to do with Iraq,

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Speaker 1: not only did it have nothing to do with Iraq,

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Speaker 1: but then the war in Afghanistan that went on. on

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Speaker 1: forever and ever and ever until Joe Biden finally pulled

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Speaker 1: troops out, and I'm not trying to give him too

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Speaker 1: much credit, but I'm saying that George W. Bush was

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Speaker 1: on the outskirts of society, even though he was the

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Speaker 1: next president, and then Trump came along and then Bush

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Speaker 1: got invited back in. And so it's so interesting that

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Speaker 1: Trump did not go to the 9-11 memorial, the official

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Speaker 1: 9-11 memorial in New York because he wasn't allowed to

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Speaker 1: speak because they don't let people speak at the memorial.

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Speaker 1: But the other ex-presidents did, and George W. Bush was there.

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Speaker 1: And he can show his face again because of what

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Speaker 1: this country has come to, largely based on Trump just

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Speaker 1: walking in his footsteps, but in a bigger, more damaging way. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: government overreach, surveillance state, the almighty dollar being the most

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Speaker 1: important thing Demonizing our fellow Americans. We learned the wrong

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Speaker 1: lessons from 9-11. Today's guest is Guy Branum. Guy Branum,

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Speaker 1: as I said, is a stand-up comedian. He's a comedy writer.

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Speaker 1: He's written for so many shows. He's got a real

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Speaker 1: comedy writer's resume. I'm not going to go through the

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Speaker 1: whole thing because it would take forever. But he's written

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Speaker 1: for many TV shows. The TV show Hacks, which just

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Speaker 1: wrapped up its run recently. He's written for Chelsea Lately.

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Speaker 1: He's written for The Mindy Project. He's written for Fascist Policed.

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Speaker 1: And he also is a writer on a little show

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Speaker 1: called Totally Biased with Debbie Kamau Bell. So that's when

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Speaker 1: I really got to know Guy a little bit better

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Speaker 1: when he was hired to be a writer on my

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Speaker 1: show Totally Biased. But we also talk about his career

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Speaker 1: as a writer. We talk a lot about Guy because

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Speaker 1: Guy is openly gay. And he also would describe himself

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Speaker 1: as fat. So we talk a lot about what it

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Speaker 1: is to be both openly gay and fat in show business.

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Speaker 1: And how showbiz is not easy on either of those groups,

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Speaker 1: but certainly not easy on that group when it's in

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Speaker 1: one person. Guy sort of went viral a few years

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Speaker 1: ago when he talked about his feelings about the movie

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Speaker 1: The Whale, the Academy Award winning movie The Whale. Brendan

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Speaker 1: Fraser won an Academy Award for that movie. And Guy

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Speaker 1: talked a lot about how he just thought that he

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Speaker 1: should have cast an actual person of size to be

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Speaker 1: in that movie instead of putting Brendan Fraser into what

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Speaker 1: Guy says is a couch to play a big person.

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Speaker 1: While at the same time he recognizes that Brendan Fraser

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Speaker 1: is a good actor and people are sure excited for him.

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Speaker 1: that he'd gotten a role, that Brendan Fraser went through

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Speaker 1: a lot in Hollywood. So it's a complicated tale. But Guy,

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Speaker 1: the amazing thing about Guy is that he graduated from

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Speaker 1: the University of California, Berkeley, another smart guy, with a

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Speaker 1: degree in law and was a practicing lawyer for years

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Speaker 1: before he broke into stand-up comedy. So Guy can kind

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Speaker 1: of lawyer himself through any issue. When you're a good lawyer,

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Speaker 1: you have to be able to argue both sides of

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Speaker 1: the issue. And in this episode, there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: Guy sort of arguing both sides of issues by himself. Like,

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Speaker 1: I sit there and take it in. And every now

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Speaker 1: and again, I check in and go, wait, which, where

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Speaker 1: are we at here? Where are we at here? And

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Speaker 1: you really see it when we get into a whole

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Speaker 1: thing about Israel's war on Palestine. And Guy is Jewish,

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Speaker 1: and he's, I would describe him as a leftist, but

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Speaker 1: he's able to sort of see that issue in a

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Speaker 1: way that gets to, certainly free Palestine, and I'm free

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Speaker 1: Palestine all day, but also is talking about, you know,

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Speaker 1: his people, his Jewish people. I've never heard anybody talk

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Speaker 1: about it this way, dig into it like this. So

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Speaker 1: strap in, everybody. This is really a rollercoaster of an

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Speaker 1: episode because Guy is super smart, and he's got the

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Speaker 1: brain of a lawyer. And sometimes I was just holding on.

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Speaker 1: But Guy is definitely with me, and I'm glad he

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Speaker 1: was a guest on the podcast. Yeah, so take it away. Hey,

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Speaker 1: thanks for watching an episode of Who's With Me. If

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Speaker 1: you're on YouTube, please like and subscribe, share. Hit that

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Speaker 1: hype button. I hear it makes all the difference. Please like, subscribe, share.

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Speaker 1: Hit the hype button. Thank you.

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Speaker 2: Guy Branum. W, come out and bow.

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Speaker 1: I don't know when the last time we talked was.

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Speaker 1: Do you know the last time we saw each other

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Speaker 1: in real life? No, it's been a while. I feel like.

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Speaker 3: Seen you a couple of times when I was in

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Speaker 3: the Bay area, but of course you're always showing up

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Speaker 3: on my television. And so that's exciting.

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Speaker 1: You're always showing up my social media feed, but also

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Speaker 1: I'm always like, well, actually the place I see you

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Speaker 1: most is when you're calling somebody out for filth on threads.

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Speaker 1: I think is the place I see you most when

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Speaker 1: you're like, when you're doing a thread street justice.

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Speaker 3: Look, I mean, we, we have to take the conversation somewhere.

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Speaker 3: We have to inhabit threads. Um, are you more a

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Speaker 3: blue sky guy?

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Speaker 1: No, no, no, no. I'm a friends guy. I feel

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Speaker 1: like black people, I know there's black blue sky or

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Speaker 1: black sky, but blue sky, this never really hit for me.

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Speaker 1: Whereas threads, I feel like black people really have rebuilt

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Speaker 1: black Twitter in a more healthy environment.

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Speaker 3: What I just miss is, was the period of time

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Speaker 3: when you would find out that Eve's Bayou was on

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Speaker 3: BET from Twitter.

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Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, when it was just trend. Yes. That's true.

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Speaker 1: When you would actually, a bat signal would go up,

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Speaker 1: or a black signal. Yes. It would say Eve's Bayou,

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Speaker 1: and people would say, oh, thanks. Yeah, that's, we haven't

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Speaker 1: captured that classic great Twitter era pre-Musk. Yeah. Before I

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Speaker 1: get started, I start off every podcast by giving the

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Speaker 1: people their flowers because I'm not just inviting anybody yet.

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Speaker 1: I mean, maybe eventually, but right now it's just people

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Speaker 1: either I know like you or people who I've admired

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Speaker 1: who say yes to being on. So first of all,

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Speaker 1: the first and most important flower I can give you

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Speaker 1: is that Melissa, my wife, loves you. She loves your book.

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Speaker 1: She talks about your book all the time. She's always like,

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Speaker 1: can't you turn that into a TV show? I was like,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't work.

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Speaker 3: Look, what I'm looking for in a colleague's spouse with

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Speaker 3: whom I am going to have holiday parties and such

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Speaker 3: is a PhD in dance.

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Speaker 1: Okay. Like that is.

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Speaker 3: So when I was working for totally biased, uh, Melissa

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Speaker 3: was always a valuable presence to have.

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Speaker 1: Um, yeah.

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Speaker 3: And it was really lovely to like, get to work

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Speaker 3: with you at that time in your family, you know,

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Speaker 3: it was like, uh, Just Sammy was around, and she

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Speaker 3: was coming and visiting a lot. But I think Melissa

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Speaker 3: was pregnant in the time that we were working together.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there was another one on the way at some point. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, no, well, thank–

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Speaker 1: I mean, we can talk about that, tell you about it.

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Speaker 1: I talked to– I had Kevin Avery. I interviewed at WE.

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Speaker 1: I interviewed Kevin at WE. Now that I have a podcast,

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Speaker 1: I'm at WE. Right. I interviewed Kevin Avery. But, you know,

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Speaker 1: we're friends throughout for, like, years and years now, over

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Speaker 1: 30 years probably now. Yes. Whereas you, Totally Biased was

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Speaker 1: the time we really connected. And then I would say

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Speaker 1: the end of Totally Biased was like the end of

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Speaker 1: a Vietnam War movie. Like everybody sort of scattered to

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Speaker 1: the hills and was just lucky to be alive.

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Speaker 3: Like I took many amazing relationships with it, but also

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Speaker 3: like you were a comedian that I enjoyed so much

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Speaker 3: when I was starting standup comedy. And I think I,

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Speaker 3: so much of the time, like as much as I

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Speaker 3: think about the Totally Biased times, I think about your

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Speaker 3: standup from, you know, 2003 and 2004. um getting to

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Speaker 3: watch your evolution as a as a comedian has been

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Speaker 3: really fun.

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Speaker 1: Well thank you and i don't mean i'll just be

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Speaker 1: giving you your flower okay i appreciate that too but

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Speaker 1: i also again uh just to continue the the flower

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Speaker 1: fest of giving you i've seen you work hard and

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Speaker 1: demand to be in the spaces where showbiz is yes

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Speaker 1: you know what i mean from like early days being

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Speaker 1: on chelsea lately like you know you easily could be

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Speaker 1: a guy who's like i'm sort of you know, you know,

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Speaker 1: you're too smart for this business. You have a law

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Speaker 1: degree that proves you're too smart for this business to

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Speaker 1: be on the talent side. You can be, you know,

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Speaker 1: but you've really like, you know, use your talent to

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Speaker 1: get in these spaces. You write on hacks now, right?

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Speaker 1: I've been writing on hacks since the beginning, right? No,

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Speaker 1: since season three. Season three. Okay. So you write like,

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Speaker 1: you know, this acclaimed standup comedy show and you've been

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Speaker 1: on the show too. Yeah. So you've, I just really

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Speaker 1: see you as somebody who's like, I refuse to be,

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Speaker 1: you know, I refuse to be in the center of

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Speaker 1: this business. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, like, at the very beginning, more so than now,

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Speaker 3: there was a sense of, oh, you're a gay guy.

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Speaker 3: You write for ladies. Like, you are not on camera.

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Speaker 3: And also, I am a creepily gigantic guy, and so... Well,

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Speaker 3: I guess you can call yourself creepily.

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Speaker 1: I just want to... I'm also a gigantic guy. Yes, but.

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Speaker 3: you know, like wasn't exactly what, what people were thinking

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Speaker 3: about for on camera stuff. Um, or like, and I've

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Speaker 3: just been like, no, I'm not going to play that

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Speaker 3: game with you. Um, and then what I could, and

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Speaker 3: there have been costs that come with that, but also

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Speaker 3: it was worth it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So I just appreciate you have, you have been

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Speaker 1: the same. The only thing different between you that I

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Speaker 1: met back in those early days when you first saw

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Speaker 1: me doing standups now is that you're just louder. Like

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Speaker 1: you're like, you're like back there. I remember you being

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Speaker 1: quiet back then. Cause you were sort of, I think

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Speaker 1: really like, especially the punchline back then, like, you sort

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Speaker 1: of understood that like there's a hierarchy here. And even

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Speaker 1: though I am smarter than these people, I should just

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Speaker 1: keep it to myself for a little while. You know,

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Speaker 1: it was a lot of watching and learning, you know? Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And I also remember the first time I really understood,

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Speaker 1: like took you in as like a force, a comic

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Speaker 1: that we know from back in the day, Ryan Stout said,

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Speaker 1: Guy Branum has a joke file with 300 jokes. Like,

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Speaker 1: so he was like bragging about the way in which

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Speaker 1: you wrote so many jokes that you had like a

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Speaker 1: file cabinet of jokes. I don't know if that's a

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Speaker 1: real thing, but.

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Speaker 3: Well, back then, when I had a bullshit day job,

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Speaker 3: I was really good at writing all day long and

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Speaker 3: just having a.

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Speaker 1: Bunch of jokes.

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Speaker 3: And sometimes I am like, do I need to work

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Speaker 3: in a cubicle again so I can be a good writer?

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Speaker 1: So I can be a good writer, even though I'm

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Speaker 1: being hired as a writer. So yeah, that's my first

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Speaker 1: memory of you is Ryan Stout going, he writes a

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Speaker 1: lot of jokes and has a cabinet of jokes. And

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Speaker 1: I remember the time, and I know he was like,

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Speaker 1: but are any of them good? You can write a

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Speaker 1: lot of words down. Look. A fair number of them.

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Speaker 3: And I put some of these in my book was

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Speaker 3: like one day at my law job, I just wrote

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Speaker 3: jokes about the Hebrew calendar.

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Speaker 1: And like those jokes are for no one.

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Speaker 3: But then there comes that situation where you're performing at

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Speaker 3: a JCC and you're like, baby, watch out.

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Speaker 1: I have a new hour. yes i have a new

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Speaker 1: comedy special for these 200 people yeah so yeah so

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Speaker 1: i just want to say like i've i really admire

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Speaker 1: the way that you've as because we sort of have

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Speaker 1: that similar thing where we're like in this business but

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Speaker 1: not always in not always finding our way to the

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Speaker 1: center of it or sort of struggling about like, and

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Speaker 1: also both being outspoken politically that like, you know, you're

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Speaker 1: not afraid to be in the middle of the business

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Speaker 1: and say the business is doing this wrong. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean, that's been kind of annoying, but kind

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Speaker 3: of fun to be like, you know, to not get

425
00:20:30,184 --> 00:20:33,144
Speaker 3: bitter and keep hustling and keep understanding that there's a

426
00:20:33,164 --> 00:20:35,664
Speaker 3: place for me here, but also to not be scared

427
00:20:35,724 --> 00:20:40,284
Speaker 3: to say, maybe this could operate differently because like, I think,

428
00:20:40,784 --> 00:20:43,584
Speaker 3: I have definitely seen over the 20 years of my career,

429
00:20:44,444 --> 00:20:47,034
Speaker 3: the amount of space there is for people like me change,

430
00:20:47,474 --> 00:20:51,014
Speaker 3: you know, and that's dynamic and in a good way,

431
00:20:51,074 --> 00:20:54,314
Speaker 3: but in like a definitely good way. But there's also

432
00:20:54,354 --> 00:20:58,154
Speaker 3: been the thing of like watching since 2020, the diversity

433
00:20:58,194 --> 00:21:03,624
Speaker 3: of writers rooms expand and contract has been fascinating. And

434
00:21:03,664 --> 00:21:06,464
Speaker 3: it is, You know, like, we're not in the world,

435
00:21:06,704 --> 00:21:08,804
Speaker 3: when I first went into a scripted writer's room where

436
00:21:09,004 --> 00:21:11,324
Speaker 3: you could bet that the only person of color would

437
00:21:11,384 --> 00:21:15,984
Speaker 3: be the writer's assistant or the staff writer. We're in

438
00:21:16,004 --> 00:21:17,944
Speaker 3: a much better world now, but there is also a

439
00:21:17,984 --> 00:21:22,444
Speaker 3: way that, you know, those white guys who wrote on Friends,

440
00:21:22,524 --> 00:21:24,094
Speaker 3: they are coming back for their revenge.

441
00:21:24,214 --> 00:21:30,304
Speaker 1: Yeah. That's the most friendly way to put it. The

442
00:21:30,344 --> 00:21:32,624
Speaker 1: most friendly way to describe white supremacy. The white guys

443
00:21:32,644 --> 00:21:35,204
Speaker 1: who wrote on Friends are coming back. They want their

444
00:21:35,244 --> 00:21:39,394
Speaker 1: writer's room back in their country. So tell me about

445
00:21:39,434 --> 00:21:41,634
Speaker 1: Be Fruitful. So Be Fruitful is.

446
00:21:41,594 --> 00:21:45,614
Speaker 3: A solo show that I knew that I wanted to

447
00:21:45,654 --> 00:21:50,894
Speaker 3: write something about not fitting into evolution or religion. That

448
00:21:51,314 --> 00:21:53,594
Speaker 3: there sort of wasn't a point for my existence.

449
00:21:55,174 --> 00:21:57,774
Speaker 3: In these like two old school ways of looking at things.

450
00:21:58,674 --> 00:22:01,684
Speaker 3: And like, I will never be fruitful and multiply. What

451
00:22:01,694 --> 00:22:05,064
Speaker 3: does that mean for my place in this world? And

452
00:22:05,344 --> 00:22:07,304
Speaker 3: it's like, one of the hard things about being a

453
00:22:07,304 --> 00:22:11,084
Speaker 3: standup is like so frequently we write through iteration. We

454
00:22:11,124 --> 00:22:13,024
Speaker 3: write through doing it over and over again. And so

455
00:22:13,084 --> 00:22:15,824
Speaker 3: I did it like four or five times before. I

456
00:22:15,904 --> 00:22:17,924
Speaker 3: have a joke in it about how if straight people

457
00:22:17,964 --> 00:22:21,204
Speaker 3: honestly understood how gay people lived, they would be disgusted.

458
00:22:21,224 --> 00:22:23,994
Speaker 3: And a friend of mine who's not a comic was like,

459
00:22:24,324 --> 00:22:27,064
Speaker 3: but you tell what is disgusting about other gay people,

460
00:22:27,104 --> 00:22:30,224
Speaker 3: but not about yourself. And that sort of like pushed

461
00:22:30,284 --> 00:22:32,264
Speaker 3: me to a new understanding of what the show was

462
00:22:32,364 --> 00:22:36,774
Speaker 3: and got it more personal. So yeah, it's a show

463
00:22:36,874 --> 00:22:39,714
Speaker 3: that I'm taking to Edinburgh for the fringe festival.

464
00:22:39,794 --> 00:22:41,974
Speaker 1: Oh, it's coming up. Yeah. This August.

465
00:22:42,494 --> 00:22:44,714
Speaker 3: And I've been touring with it and figuring it out.

466
00:22:45,074 --> 00:22:49,214
Speaker 3: And it's been a really lovely process. There's like, there's

467
00:22:49,274 --> 00:22:53,674
Speaker 3: always the danger of not doing like, an hour of

468
00:22:53,894 --> 00:22:55,554
Speaker 3: stand-up that we consider to be stand-up.

469
00:22:55,714 --> 00:22:58,794
Speaker 1: But here's the thing. I love that you already started

470
00:22:58,854 --> 00:23:02,124
Speaker 1: arguing against it. As I watch specials, I'm like, there's

471
00:23:02,144 --> 00:23:02,884
Speaker 1: a lot of filler in there.

472
00:23:03,044 --> 00:23:04,204
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

473
00:23:04,844 --> 00:23:07,384
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. So I think what you're talking about is

474
00:23:07,404 --> 00:23:10,043
Speaker 1: that idea, and I had a solo show that was

475
00:23:10,064 --> 00:23:12,204
Speaker 1: the show that actually helped break me into show business. W.

476
00:23:12,224 --> 00:23:14,564
Speaker 1: Kamau Belker. Ending racism in about an hour. So I

477
00:23:14,564 --> 00:23:17,064
Speaker 1: understand that. I remember talking to stand-ups at the time

478
00:23:17,084 --> 00:23:18,204
Speaker 1: when I was in the Bay Area, and there'd be

479
00:23:18,244 --> 00:23:20,784
Speaker 1: a sense of like, oh, you went that solo show direction. Right.

480
00:23:20,804 --> 00:23:22,424
Speaker 1: So you're just going to tell your jokes slower?

481
00:23:23,014 --> 00:23:23,194
Speaker 3: Right.

482
00:23:23,274 --> 00:23:25,754
Speaker 1: Or somebody got cancer. That was always the thing. Somebody

483
00:23:26,144 --> 00:23:28,744
Speaker 1: in your stand-up back now, you'll tell the cancer story.

484
00:23:28,804 --> 00:23:31,464
Speaker 3: Well, and the thing that was hard about it was

485
00:23:31,484 --> 00:23:34,204
Speaker 3: just having to acknowledge, like, I am at the place

486
00:23:34,244 --> 00:23:37,644
Speaker 3: in my life where I am, and where I am

487
00:23:37,864 --> 00:23:41,034
Speaker 3: in my career as a stand-up comic kind of has

488
00:23:41,054 --> 00:23:45,514
Speaker 3: to reflect and acknowledge that. And generally, if you are

489
00:23:46,554 --> 00:23:50,494
Speaker 3: on the traditional good path, you do your three silly

490
00:23:50,534 --> 00:23:53,084
Speaker 3: specials and then you do one where you're really deciding

491
00:23:53,104 --> 00:23:55,564
Speaker 3: to say something, but it's like, I have something to say.

492
00:23:55,764 --> 00:23:57,844
Speaker 3: So we're gonna have to skip the three silly specials.

493
00:23:58,044 --> 00:23:58,424
Speaker 1: Yeah.

494
00:23:59,184 --> 00:24:03,224
Speaker 3: Um, and so it's been really fun, but it's also

495
00:24:03,284 --> 00:24:07,004
Speaker 3: been very challenging to try to get something where it

496
00:24:07,084 --> 00:24:10,374
Speaker 3: is a good time for an hour, but also I'm

497
00:24:10,394 --> 00:24:11,494
Speaker 3: saying the things that I want to say.

498
00:24:12,214 --> 00:24:14,074
Speaker 1: And do you like when you, just to be clear, like,

499
00:24:14,094 --> 00:24:16,214
Speaker 1: cause I haven't seen it. Is it, is it like,

500
00:24:17,414 --> 00:24:18,994
Speaker 1: cause there's sort of the, First of all, I think

501
00:24:19,014 --> 00:24:21,624
Speaker 1: the UK does a better job of just calling it

502
00:24:21,684 --> 00:24:24,624
Speaker 1: all stand-up. Yes. And some stand-ups, it's like 90 minutes

503
00:24:24,664 --> 00:24:28,224
Speaker 1: of just one-liners. And some stand-ups, it's like they have

504
00:24:28,524 --> 00:24:30,904
Speaker 1: PowerPoint and things. And some stand-ups are telling a sad

505
00:24:30,944 --> 00:24:32,043
Speaker 1: story that's funny at the end.

506
00:24:32,164 --> 00:24:34,504
Speaker 3: Did you see Jacqueline Novak's Get On Your Knees?

507
00:24:34,744 --> 00:24:36,004
Speaker 1: I saw pieces of it. I haven't seen the whole thing.

508
00:24:36,024 --> 00:24:37,934
Speaker 3: I mean, the fact that it was built almost entirely

509
00:24:37,994 --> 00:24:40,854
Speaker 3: out of one-liners, but still makes a very beautiful argument

510
00:24:41,314 --> 00:24:44,814
Speaker 3: about sex and agency in women's bodies, I was so

511
00:24:44,874 --> 00:24:48,684
Speaker 3: impressed with. But mine is a PowerPoint thing. It's got

512
00:24:48,884 --> 00:24:51,304
Speaker 3: a lot of jokes. There's a point up at the

513
00:24:51,364 --> 00:24:58,194
Speaker 3: top where I just do a run of roast jokes

514
00:24:58,294 --> 00:25:00,994
Speaker 3: about fruit just to prove to the audience that they

515
00:25:01,014 --> 00:25:02,074
Speaker 3: should trust me as a comedian.

516
00:25:02,114 --> 00:25:04,534
Speaker 1: I'm a good writer. Yeah. I'm a real comedian.

517
00:25:04,624 --> 00:25:09,484
Speaker 3: I'm a real comedian because there is the ease of saying, well,

518
00:25:09,524 --> 00:25:12,824
Speaker 3: you wouldn't be making a point about if you could

519
00:25:12,844 --> 00:25:15,404
Speaker 3: just tell funny jokes and it's like, I got funny jokes.

520
00:25:15,584 --> 00:25:17,384
Speaker 1: It's funny. I do find that with the bell curve,

521
00:25:17,404 --> 00:25:19,824
Speaker 1: you had to like open for your own act to

522
00:25:19,864 --> 00:25:21,844
Speaker 1: let the audience know, no, no, I have jokes. Yeah.

523
00:25:21,864 --> 00:25:23,064
Speaker 1: I'm going to slow it down a little bit, but

524
00:25:23,084 --> 00:25:24,364
Speaker 1: I actually know how to do this. Yeah.

525
00:25:24,484 --> 00:25:27,944
Speaker 3: Yeah. Um, and finding that balance and finding what people

526
00:25:28,004 --> 00:25:31,204
Speaker 3: want out of it. Um, and like just understanding the

527
00:25:31,224 --> 00:25:34,544
Speaker 3: different ways that you're managing an audience's energy with that.

528
00:25:34,834 --> 00:25:35,704
Speaker 3: It has been a challenge.

529
00:25:35,834 --> 00:25:36,914
Speaker 1: So do you, cause I know you just said that

530
00:25:36,934 --> 00:25:39,014
Speaker 1: the Netflix is a joke festival, right? So do you

531
00:25:39,034 --> 00:25:42,303
Speaker 1: feel like it's, like, and maybe you don't have canisters yet.

532
00:25:42,424 --> 00:25:44,984
Speaker 1: Do you feel like, Oh, it's basically done. Or are

533
00:25:45,004 --> 00:25:47,524
Speaker 1: you still in the process of like iterating and creating it?

534
00:25:47,704 --> 00:25:50,184
Speaker 3: Like, uh, there are three holes that need to be fixed.

535
00:25:50,204 --> 00:25:52,184
Speaker 3: There are three holes that need to be fixed through writing.

536
00:25:52,234 --> 00:25:55,814
Speaker 3: I mean, they function well as they are right now,

537
00:25:55,894 --> 00:25:57,734
Speaker 3: but I want them to be better. And I have

538
00:25:57,774 --> 00:26:00,534
Speaker 3: two months before I go to Edinburgh. And so I'm

539
00:26:00,594 --> 00:26:02,594
Speaker 3: going to do the work of making them better. I mean,

540
00:26:02,734 --> 00:26:05,324
Speaker 3: it is that hard thing with something of knowing when

541
00:26:05,344 --> 00:26:07,714
Speaker 3: it's done, but I also think that the, Comedians can

542
00:26:07,734 --> 00:26:09,773
Speaker 3: be really good at getting something 85% of the way

543
00:26:09,814 --> 00:26:13,434
Speaker 3: done and knowing that they can use goodwill and performance

544
00:26:13,454 --> 00:26:17,734
Speaker 3: skill to get it over the line. And I want

545
00:26:17,774 --> 00:26:18,844
Speaker 3: this to be as good as it can be.

546
00:26:18,864 --> 00:26:21,364
Speaker 1: And when you're working on it, are you doing the

547
00:26:21,464 --> 00:26:23,744
Speaker 1: whole show? Do you run chunks of it? I mean, it.

548
00:26:24,124 --> 00:26:27,724
Speaker 3: Started out from just, I had a collection of jokes

549
00:26:27,784 --> 00:26:32,094
Speaker 3: that were in sort of these areas about my gayness

550
00:26:32,134 --> 00:26:35,584
Speaker 3: and my fatness. And like it started from there. So

551
00:26:35,624 --> 00:26:37,224
Speaker 3: that stuff I was able to work out on stage,

552
00:26:37,664 --> 00:26:41,664
Speaker 3: but it has doing the whole thing, like understanding how

553
00:26:41,704 --> 00:26:45,263
Speaker 3: the whole energy works together because some of the things

554
00:26:45,484 --> 00:26:49,464
Speaker 3: are funny, but they only work after having gone through

555
00:26:49,484 --> 00:26:50,874
Speaker 3: this other experience, you know?

556
00:26:50,894 --> 00:26:54,894
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Have you done Edinburgh before? No. Oh boy.

557
00:26:55,614 --> 00:26:57,714
Speaker 1: I did it 2000, actually right before about a year

558
00:26:57,734 --> 00:27:02,044
Speaker 1: before totally biased. I did. 2010, I think, 2011. Uh-huh. 30,

559
00:27:02,034 --> 00:27:05,074
Speaker 1: you know. What did you learn from it? So Edinburgh,

560
00:27:05,094 --> 00:27:07,794
Speaker 1: you know, that's funny. So Edinburgh, you can go where

561
00:27:07,814 --> 00:27:09,454
Speaker 1: you just sort of four-wall it yourself or you can

562
00:27:09,494 --> 00:27:11,234
Speaker 1: be produced. So I was lucky enough to be produced.

563
00:27:11,254 --> 00:27:12,464
Speaker 1: So I didn't have to do a lot of the like,

564
00:27:12,544 --> 00:27:13,904
Speaker 1: you know, I didn't have to stand on corners and

565
00:27:13,924 --> 00:27:16,884
Speaker 1: hand out flyers. Are you being produced? Yes. Okay, good.

566
00:27:16,904 --> 00:27:20,104
Speaker 1: So that's good. All right, good. So you can do

567
00:27:20,124 --> 00:27:21,724
Speaker 1: that if you want to, but you don't have to

568
00:27:21,784 --> 00:27:23,394
Speaker 1: do it. Like I'd run into people around town who

569
00:27:23,414 --> 00:27:26,634
Speaker 1: were sending my own flyers out. I'm going to do it,

570
00:27:26,654 --> 00:27:28,394
Speaker 1: it seems like. Yeah, no, it seems like, yeah. Especially

571
00:27:28,414 --> 00:27:29,754
Speaker 1: for social media, you might as well get some clips.

572
00:27:29,894 --> 00:27:34,614
Speaker 1: But what I, so I was doing a version of

573
00:27:34,654 --> 00:27:37,234
Speaker 1: the bell curve. And what happened with me, which is

574
00:27:37,254 --> 00:27:39,174
Speaker 1: going to be different, you might have your own versions,

575
00:27:39,214 --> 00:27:41,614
Speaker 1: but with me is that I got there, and it's Edinburgh,

576
00:27:41,634 --> 00:27:44,234
Speaker 1: and it's Scotland. And so it's a lot of white

577
00:27:44,734 --> 00:27:47,794
Speaker 1: people and a lot of Europeans. And they were, when

578
00:27:47,814 --> 00:27:48,974
Speaker 1: I got there, I felt like they were like, oh,

579
00:27:49,014 --> 00:27:51,294
Speaker 1: those Americans are always getting caught up in their racism.

580
00:27:51,314 --> 00:27:53,404
Speaker 1: And this black guy, they sort of saw it as

581
00:27:53,424 --> 00:27:55,924
Speaker 1: like me telling the woes of America. And then as

582
00:27:55,974 --> 00:27:58,544
Speaker 1: I was there, a race, what they would call a

583
00:27:58,564 --> 00:28:01,444
Speaker 1: race ride, happened in Tottenham because they killed a black guy,

584
00:28:01,524 --> 00:28:06,124
Speaker 1: a cop killed a black guy. And so from that

585
00:28:06,164 --> 00:28:08,424
Speaker 1: point forward, I was able to go, like right there,

586
00:28:08,444 --> 00:28:11,024
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? So by the end of

587
00:28:11,064 --> 00:28:14,204
Speaker 1: the run, I felt like I had sort of like

588
00:28:14,344 --> 00:28:16,704
Speaker 1: fought back and sort of fought back for the show.

589
00:28:17,204 --> 00:28:19,364
Speaker 1: And then they're like, great, when you come back five

590
00:28:19,404 --> 00:28:21,704
Speaker 1: more times, you'll really be able to really make it here.

591
00:28:21,744 --> 00:28:23,614
Speaker 1: And I was like, I'm done here. Like that.

592
00:28:24,404 --> 00:28:26,224
Speaker 3: You know, I do worry and think about that, like,

593
00:28:26,504 --> 00:28:29,094
Speaker 3: localization issue and what will seem like an American thing,

594
00:28:29,134 --> 00:28:31,974
Speaker 3: especially talking about fatness, because it is something that people

595
00:28:32,034 --> 00:28:35,674
Speaker 3: tend to think of as being, like, a uniquely American issue.

596
00:28:35,694 --> 00:28:36,614
Speaker 1: Yeah.

597
00:28:41,644 --> 00:28:45,044
Speaker 3: You see their system of race relations and you're like,

598
00:28:45,244 --> 00:28:48,204
Speaker 3: this is horrifying and disgusting. How could anyone live like this?

599
00:28:48,264 --> 00:28:49,804
Speaker 3: And then when you're at home, you're like, this is home.

600
00:28:51,684 --> 00:28:53,364
Speaker 1: Also, I think they call, I feel like they don't,

601
00:28:53,484 --> 00:28:55,804
Speaker 1: they think they don't do racism, but they do nationalism,

602
00:28:55,844 --> 00:28:58,724
Speaker 1: which is just another word for racism. Like they do nationalism.

603
00:28:58,784 --> 00:28:59,884
Speaker 1: They do classism.

604
00:29:00,284 --> 00:29:03,134
Speaker 3: They do like, there was a bunch of religious weirdness

605
00:29:03,254 --> 00:29:06,094
Speaker 3: that rolls around all of their racism. But then of

606
00:29:06,154 --> 00:29:08,534
Speaker 3: course they just have racism.

607
00:29:08,614 --> 00:29:11,034
Speaker 1: And then they have that too. But yeah, but they think,

608
00:29:11,334 --> 00:29:12,494
Speaker 1: I remember at the time when I was there, there

609
00:29:12,514 --> 00:29:13,894
Speaker 1: was a news clip that I actually used in the

610
00:29:13,934 --> 00:29:17,334
Speaker 1: show of like an old, like sort of the oldest,

611
00:29:17,414 --> 00:29:20,454
Speaker 1: most tea drinking white British lady on the news. And

612
00:29:20,474 --> 00:29:22,194
Speaker 1: they interviewed her and she's like, there's just too many

613
00:29:22,294 --> 00:29:25,024
Speaker 1: Muslims in this town. And it was just like, but

614
00:29:25,044 --> 00:29:27,264
Speaker 1: they don't think that's racism. They think that's a woman

615
00:29:27,304 --> 00:29:28,664
Speaker 1: who wants to fight for her country.

616
00:29:30,084 --> 00:29:34,004
Speaker 3: How much have you paid attention to Kimmy Bodnock? She's

617
00:29:34,544 --> 00:29:39,734
Speaker 3: the black head of the conservative party. She is amazing.

618
00:29:40,624 --> 00:29:43,804
Speaker 1: I really got, I follow a, there's a new channel

619
00:29:43,884 --> 00:29:45,604
Speaker 1: LBC that I got caught up in following for a

620
00:29:45,604 --> 00:29:47,834
Speaker 1: while on YouTube. And so I learned, yeah, I got rich,

621
00:29:47,894 --> 00:29:51,644
Speaker 1: Richie Sunak being the mistrust being this the prime minister

622
00:29:51,974 --> 00:29:53,584
Speaker 1: as long as a head of lettuce or shorter than

623
00:29:53,604 --> 00:29:54,744
Speaker 1: a head of lettuce yeah.

624
00:29:54,604 --> 00:29:57,204
Speaker 3: But like kemi is just like she's a little bit

625
00:29:57,284 --> 00:30:00,504
Speaker 3: batshit yes like she's doing terribly in the polls yes

626
00:30:00,564 --> 00:30:03,244
Speaker 3: who knows how long she'll last but like she is

627
00:30:03,404 --> 00:30:06,894
Speaker 3: hilarious yes like we're at a point where what it

628
00:30:06,954 --> 00:30:09,514
Speaker 3: means is that SNL UK knew that they needed to

629
00:30:09,534 --> 00:30:12,324
Speaker 3: hire a black woman so that they could parody her.

630
00:30:12,364 --> 00:30:14,784
Speaker 3: But also she, they, she still hasn't come up as

631
00:30:14,804 --> 00:30:16,164
Speaker 3: a character on this show.

632
00:30:18,564 --> 00:30:20,484
Speaker 1: So I would, that's what I would, if any advice

633
00:30:20,524 --> 00:30:22,724
Speaker 1: I give you is like, definitely if you have some

634
00:30:22,824 --> 00:30:24,824
Speaker 1: things to let them know that you're paying attention to them,

635
00:30:25,384 --> 00:30:27,284
Speaker 1: they will feel in that opening of the show and

636
00:30:27,304 --> 00:30:29,504
Speaker 1: your opening sort of saying, I got jokes, a couple,

637
00:30:29,564 --> 00:30:32,074
Speaker 1: a couple of Liz Truss had a lettuce jokes in

638
00:30:32,114 --> 00:30:34,754
Speaker 1: there while you're roasting produce. Yeah. That's a, that's a

639
00:30:34,754 --> 00:30:35,434
Speaker 1: really good point.

640
00:30:35,454 --> 00:30:35,894
Speaker 3: Yeah.

641
00:30:35,934 --> 00:30:37,674
Speaker 1: Just cause I think, they do like to know that

642
00:30:37,714 --> 00:30:41,814
Speaker 1: you're like paying attention to them, you know? So, but enough,

643
00:30:41,834 --> 00:30:43,904
Speaker 1: enough about me directing your solo show.

644
00:30:44,084 --> 00:30:45,924
Speaker 3: Well, no, but there is just that thing that like,

645
00:30:46,704 --> 00:30:49,004
Speaker 3: there is the temptation as Americans to just be like,

646
00:30:49,244 --> 00:30:52,044
Speaker 3: everyone knows all of our popular culture and pays attention

647
00:30:52,064 --> 00:30:54,644
Speaker 3: to us. We don't need to do anything to pay

648
00:30:54,684 --> 00:30:55,724
Speaker 3: attention to them at all.

649
00:30:55,804 --> 00:30:58,184
Speaker 1: No, for sure. So they will appreciate you paying attention

650
00:30:58,204 --> 00:30:59,594
Speaker 1: to them. Do you have a director? I'm not offering

651
00:30:59,634 --> 00:31:00,504
Speaker 1: my services, but do you?

652
00:31:01,334 --> 00:31:04,654
Speaker 3: No, it was like something I was like, holding onto

653
00:31:04,694 --> 00:31:07,074
Speaker 3: for like, this is what you get more famous people

654
00:31:07,114 --> 00:31:10,174
Speaker 3: to do for you once the show has attention. And

655
00:31:10,194 --> 00:31:12,634
Speaker 3: then it was like, now it's pretty much done.

656
00:31:14,594 --> 00:31:16,894
Speaker 1: Fair. I mean, you know, and your, your analytical mind

657
00:31:16,974 --> 00:31:19,034
Speaker 1: is certainly, and even having your friend give you advice

658
00:31:19,054 --> 00:31:21,404
Speaker 1: that you didn't incorporate it. So you're, you're clearly thinking

659
00:31:21,424 --> 00:31:23,164
Speaker 1: from the outside. It's been really, really great.

660
00:31:23,194 --> 00:31:26,544
Speaker 3: The number of people who have come through like Bamford,

661
00:31:26,584 --> 00:31:29,084
Speaker 3: Louis Katz, like so many people just sort of like

662
00:31:29,324 --> 00:31:34,364
Speaker 3: giving thoughts and perspectives. I took a clowning class. a

663
00:31:34,444 --> 00:31:36,704
Speaker 3: month and a half ago. And like, I truly came

664
00:31:36,764 --> 00:31:39,344
Speaker 3: out of it with so many ideas for the show

665
00:31:39,364 --> 00:31:42,304
Speaker 3: that I was able to implement very directly. And it

666
00:31:42,484 --> 00:31:46,044
Speaker 3: was like, this shouldn't be a productive educational experience.

667
00:31:46,144 --> 00:31:47,004
Speaker 1: And yet it was.

668
00:31:47,024 --> 00:31:47,784
Speaker 2: That's funny.

669
00:31:47,844 --> 00:31:50,204
Speaker 1: I mean, that's what you talk about, Melissa, being my wife,

670
00:31:50,244 --> 00:31:52,464
Speaker 1: having a PhD in dance. Like she would often, early

671
00:31:52,484 --> 00:31:54,614
Speaker 1: days of my standup, like, why are you shuffling in place?

672
00:31:54,684 --> 00:31:55,614
Speaker 1: Either move or don't.

673
00:31:56,374 --> 00:32:00,284
Speaker 3: Look, I got a choreographer next door. And so- We

674
00:32:00,324 --> 00:32:02,544
Speaker 3: went and we did some movement stuff.

675
00:32:02,444 --> 00:32:04,164
Speaker 1: To get it together. You're doing the right thing. You're

676
00:32:04,184 --> 00:32:07,184
Speaker 1: doing the right thing. I look forward to this and

677
00:32:07,404 --> 00:32:09,264
Speaker 1: definitely want to see it when there's a chance. Certainly

678
00:32:09,284 --> 00:32:11,244
Speaker 1: you should bring it to the Bay at some point. Absolutely.

679
00:32:11,374 --> 00:32:14,654
Speaker 1: I'll happily help you pack whatever house you're in.

680
00:32:14,674 --> 00:32:14,874
Speaker 2: Thanks.

681
00:32:14,994 --> 00:32:34,904
Speaker 1: Thank you. So the other thing I want to say

682
00:32:35,364 --> 00:32:38,824
Speaker 1: about you is that I really also, like, you know,

683
00:32:39,184 --> 00:32:41,684
Speaker 1: you could get that job writing and hacks, but you're

684
00:32:41,704 --> 00:32:43,984
Speaker 1: doing standup and you're also doing the thing that we,

685
00:32:44,084 --> 00:32:45,864
Speaker 1: that those of us of a certain generation have to do,

686
00:32:45,924 --> 00:32:47,204
Speaker 1: which I funny as I look at it, I'm like, oh,

687
00:32:47,224 --> 00:32:49,404
Speaker 1: we're closer in age than I realized. Cause I just,

688
00:32:49,544 --> 00:32:50,934
Speaker 1: you know, when I met you, you were a young

689
00:32:50,944 --> 00:32:53,544
Speaker 1: comedian and I was already established, but we're not actually

690
00:32:53,574 --> 00:32:56,834
Speaker 1: that different in age. But like, I really like, uh,

691
00:32:57,094 --> 00:32:59,194
Speaker 1: old gays remember, like sort of like we all have

692
00:32:59,214 --> 00:33:02,474
Speaker 1: to figure out what's my content lane in this crazy

693
00:33:03,094 --> 00:33:04,834
Speaker 1: algorithm where I can sort of find a way that

694
00:33:04,874 --> 00:33:07,134
Speaker 1: I can sort of put myself out there. And so

695
00:33:07,154 --> 00:33:09,294
Speaker 1: this is a segment I've been seeing on Instagram. I

696
00:33:09,314 --> 00:33:11,514
Speaker 1: assume you put it up other places too. Yes, Instagram

697
00:33:11,554 --> 00:33:13,554
Speaker 1: and TikTok. Tell us a little about Old Gays Remember.

698
00:33:13,874 --> 00:33:17,964
Speaker 3: So 2024, I vowed to do 150 shows because I

699
00:33:18,004 --> 00:33:21,164
Speaker 3: needed to have like in the year because I just

700
00:33:21,204 --> 00:33:25,384
Speaker 3: needed to reset my relationship with standup. And like I

701
00:33:25,424 --> 00:33:27,404
Speaker 3: came in contact with so many more comics and there

702
00:33:27,424 --> 00:33:30,424
Speaker 3: was just a girl after a show, a comic who

703
00:33:30,444 --> 00:33:33,884
Speaker 3: was like, how like invite me to a show, I'll

704
00:33:33,924 --> 00:33:35,404
Speaker 3: record your set and I'll cut it up into clips.

705
00:33:35,824 --> 00:33:38,664
Speaker 3: And she was pitching her skills as, uh, you know,

706
00:33:38,704 --> 00:33:41,774
Speaker 3: a social media, uh, producer. Uh, and I was like,

707
00:33:41,854 --> 00:33:45,114
Speaker 3: this worked great. And then we were doing stuff like, uh,

708
00:33:45,154 --> 00:33:46,654
Speaker 3: some joke stuff and some men on the street stuff

709
00:33:46,674 --> 00:33:48,614
Speaker 3: and all of that. But doing men on the street

710
00:33:48,654 --> 00:33:51,144
Speaker 3: stuff in West Hollywood, I would stop her to tell

711
00:33:51,184 --> 00:33:53,164
Speaker 3: her about some aspect of queer culture that I thought

712
00:33:53,184 --> 00:33:55,824
Speaker 3: it was very important that she understand so frequently that

713
00:33:55,864 --> 00:33:57,424
Speaker 3: she was like, you should do a thing called what

714
00:33:57,444 --> 00:34:01,094
Speaker 3: the old gays remember. And I started doing it and

715
00:34:01,494 --> 00:34:03,994
Speaker 3: people really connected with it. And it's been really fun

716
00:34:04,084 --> 00:34:08,604
Speaker 3: to see the ways and approaches that like resonated and

717
00:34:08,663 --> 00:34:11,604
Speaker 3: those that have not. And like, it is that thing

718
00:34:11,924 --> 00:34:15,044
Speaker 3: about social media that's hard. I think particularly for Gen

719
00:34:15,114 --> 00:34:18,054
Speaker 3: X people is like, you just have to do it

720
00:34:18,114 --> 00:34:20,053
Speaker 3: and throw it up. And sometimes it will work and

721
00:34:20,094 --> 00:34:22,054
Speaker 3: sometimes it doesn't and just keep going.

722
00:34:22,594 --> 00:34:24,173
Speaker 1: You got to take the good, what we learned from

723
00:34:24,274 --> 00:34:26,113
Speaker 1: the facts of life. You take the good, you take

724
00:34:26,154 --> 00:34:27,973
Speaker 1: the bad, you take them both. And there you have

725
00:34:28,303 --> 00:34:32,623
Speaker 1: social media. Yeah. Yeah. Cause I've sort of doing versions

726
00:34:32,663 --> 00:34:34,604
Speaker 1: of that myself. Like earlier this year, I went to

727
00:34:34,703 --> 00:34:37,683
Speaker 1: Minneapolis to make some content for after Alex Freddie and

728
00:34:37,703 --> 00:34:40,283
Speaker 1: Renee Good were murdered in the streets. And you just

729
00:34:40,303 --> 00:34:42,763
Speaker 1: sort of like, I have to like, after working on

730
00:34:42,824 --> 00:34:44,334
Speaker 1: United shades and see it in for so long.

731
00:34:44,354 --> 00:34:44,433
Speaker 3: Yeah.

732
00:34:44,634 --> 00:34:46,594
Speaker 1: And you know, you work on one episode for months

733
00:34:46,774 --> 00:34:49,194
Speaker 1: before you put it out there. And now it's just like, no,

734
00:34:49,234 --> 00:34:51,024
Speaker 1: I shot that yesterday. Here it is.

735
00:34:51,594 --> 00:34:55,263
Speaker 3: Did we discuss the fact that you talked to a

736
00:34:56,533 --> 00:34:59,924
Speaker 3: guy I was in FBLA with, Future Business Leaders of America,

737
00:35:00,464 --> 00:35:04,224
Speaker 3: in high school for your episode about the Sikh community

738
00:35:04,263 --> 00:35:04,944
Speaker 3: in Yuba City?

739
00:35:04,964 --> 00:35:06,643
Speaker 1: No, but I knew you were from Yuba City, so

740
00:35:06,703 --> 00:35:07,484
Speaker 1: that makes sense.

741
00:35:08,064 --> 00:35:10,004
Speaker 3: You mostly ended up talking to Carm Baines.

742
00:35:10,344 --> 00:35:10,843
Speaker 1: Oh, yes, yes, yes.

743
00:35:10,884 --> 00:35:13,694
Speaker 3: Which is very funny because- You know, I knew him

744
00:35:13,734 --> 00:35:16,433
Speaker 3: when he was driving an IROC and making trouble for

745
00:35:16,473 --> 00:35:19,533
Speaker 3: the people around us. And now he is a pillar

746
00:35:19,553 --> 00:35:21,513
Speaker 3: of the community and I believe a county supervisor.

747
00:35:21,674 --> 00:35:24,544
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's one of the most of episodes I've done.

748
00:35:24,604 --> 00:35:28,203
Speaker 1: That one really landed well in the Sikh community. And like,

749
00:35:28,283 --> 00:35:30,904
Speaker 1: I hear about that one a lot and that's wow.

750
00:35:30,944 --> 00:35:31,084
Speaker 3: Yeah.

751
00:35:31,104 --> 00:35:32,943
Speaker 1: That was like, that episode really taught me a lot

752
00:35:33,024 --> 00:35:35,863
Speaker 1: about how to engage with the community as an outsider. Yeah.

753
00:35:35,904 --> 00:35:37,773
Speaker 1: How to actually, Tap them to go, am I saying

754
00:35:37,814 --> 00:35:39,513
Speaker 1: this right? Am I doing this right? Right.

755
00:35:39,533 --> 00:35:42,413
Speaker 3: Well, it's also a community that's, I actually did a

756
00:35:42,553 --> 00:35:46,654
Speaker 3: murder in the Sikh community for Karen Kilgare, my favorite murder.

757
00:35:47,214 --> 00:35:49,554
Speaker 1: And George R.R. Starks. I did a murder. I was like, wait, what?

758
00:35:50,033 --> 00:35:52,184
Speaker 3: And so like, but just talking about the way that

759
00:35:52,223 --> 00:35:58,183
Speaker 3: that community after September 11th, 2001, had to open up

760
00:35:58,524 --> 00:36:02,383
Speaker 3: and like start a PR campaign to stop random white

761
00:36:02,424 --> 00:36:03,984
Speaker 3: people from murdering them.

762
00:36:04,143 --> 00:36:04,763
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.

763
00:36:05,844 --> 00:36:09,804
Speaker 3: But also, I was just in Minneapolis for my law

764
00:36:09,824 --> 00:36:14,394
Speaker 3: school reunion, and it was crazy to see how much

765
00:36:15,433 --> 00:36:18,973
Speaker 3: that city has changed and been altered by politics of

766
00:36:19,533 --> 00:36:23,433
Speaker 3: the last six years, from the George Floyd demonstrations through

767
00:36:23,453 --> 00:36:29,013
Speaker 3: the ICE demonstrations this year. And I was at a

768
00:36:29,114 --> 00:36:32,953
Speaker 3: very gay wedding with a bunch of Minneapolis Jews, and

769
00:36:33,444 --> 00:36:35,823
Speaker 3: the extent to it, like the, the pride in their

770
00:36:35,844 --> 00:36:39,443
Speaker 3: community and the understanding of the costs that had come

771
00:36:39,484 --> 00:36:41,863
Speaker 3: with it was really significant.

772
00:36:42,564 --> 00:36:44,493
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, this is one thing that you do

773
00:36:44,574 --> 00:36:47,794
Speaker 1: that I do that does not, that like being okay,

774
00:36:47,873 --> 00:36:50,854
Speaker 1: engaging in issues that aren't easy to mock and make

775
00:36:50,913 --> 00:36:52,953
Speaker 1: fun of, and also showing your heart and showing that

776
00:36:52,993 --> 00:36:55,314
Speaker 1: you care until you have an opinion. Uh, I feel

777
00:36:55,334 --> 00:36:58,493
Speaker 1: like there's so many of our comedy brethren are just, uh,

778
00:36:58,574 --> 00:37:00,774
Speaker 1: you know, just want to be funnels for whoever's in

779
00:37:00,794 --> 00:37:03,303
Speaker 1: power and, you know, and, and, think it's weird if

780
00:37:03,324 --> 00:37:05,383
Speaker 1: you care. Like I, I posted and we don't have

781
00:37:05,404 --> 00:37:06,964
Speaker 1: to get into the details, but I posted about, I

782
00:37:07,203 --> 00:37:09,433
Speaker 1: wrote a, I wrote a newsletter about the Kevin Hart

783
00:37:10,013 --> 00:37:12,254
Speaker 1: roast and my issues with it. And I posted an

784
00:37:12,294 --> 00:37:16,854
Speaker 1: excerpt on, on Instagram and so many of the Rogan's fear,

785
00:37:16,973 --> 00:37:20,364
Speaker 1: right wing comedy bros, like I've never been called gay

786
00:37:20,404 --> 00:37:22,363
Speaker 1: so much since like in my life, like I was

787
00:37:22,404 --> 00:37:24,104
Speaker 1: gonna say since high school, but not even then, like just,

788
00:37:24,703 --> 00:37:27,223
Speaker 1: not just cause I, as a way of saying you're

789
00:37:27,324 --> 00:37:29,384
Speaker 1: soft or you're too sensitive, you know? Yeah.

790
00:37:30,024 --> 00:37:33,824
Speaker 3: No, like it, And there is a path of comedy

791
00:37:33,944 --> 00:37:37,923
Speaker 3: to just go to the, like, the easiest path, you know? Like,

792
00:37:37,964 --> 00:37:40,963
Speaker 3: just do what people want. And some people do that,

793
00:37:41,084 --> 00:37:43,534
Speaker 3: and that works for them. And I wouldn't have fun

794
00:37:43,574 --> 00:37:48,553
Speaker 3: doing that. And, like, I really like that piece because, like,

795
00:37:48,913 --> 00:37:52,074
Speaker 3: I do love roasts, and I do love roast jokes.

796
00:37:52,214 --> 00:37:54,274
Speaker 3: But I also want them to be interesting, and I

797
00:37:54,314 --> 00:37:58,354
Speaker 3: also don't just want them to be, like, racism math.

798
00:37:58,834 --> 00:37:59,713
Speaker 1: Racism math, yeah.

799
00:38:00,564 --> 00:38:03,283
Speaker 3: And it can defend to that, descend to that. And like,

800
00:38:03,404 --> 00:38:06,274
Speaker 3: I hate the idea that like that's sharp and edgy comedy.

801
00:38:06,294 --> 00:38:09,094
Speaker 1: Yeah. Um, and like, I do like.

802
00:38:10,933 --> 00:38:13,294
Speaker 3: Just in like the last two weeks, I wrote some

803
00:38:13,334 --> 00:38:16,863
Speaker 3: jokes for Chelsea Handler for, um, the Kevin Hart roast.

804
00:38:16,884 --> 00:38:22,144
Speaker 3: I did a clown's birthday roast at the Elysian theater.

805
00:38:22,203 --> 00:38:25,203
Speaker 3: This is like LA modern clowning, which is a weird thing. Uh,

806
00:38:25,324 --> 00:38:29,594
Speaker 3: and then, uh, John Lovett, um, got married, uh, to

807
00:38:29,694 --> 00:38:34,234
Speaker 3: his now spouse, um, uh, Ari Schwartz. Um, and they had, uh,

808
00:38:35,074 --> 00:38:37,194
Speaker 3: like their, the first evening of their wedding was a

809
00:38:37,234 --> 00:38:39,554
Speaker 3: roast of them and that I hosted. And it was

810
00:38:39,614 --> 00:38:43,823
Speaker 3: like so much fun and like, like talk, making fun

811
00:38:43,864 --> 00:38:46,484
Speaker 3: of the specificities of the people who you love most

812
00:38:46,964 --> 00:38:50,963
Speaker 3: is really fun. And I don't think we saw like,

813
00:38:52,123 --> 00:38:54,723
Speaker 3: Chelsea really did have personal stories and stuff in her,

814
00:38:55,404 --> 00:38:57,183
Speaker 3: in talking about Kevin Hart. And a lot of it

815
00:38:57,223 --> 00:38:59,284
Speaker 3: was just like, he is short and black.

816
00:38:59,524 --> 00:39:03,403
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I, I, as I wrote about

817
00:39:03,424 --> 00:39:06,294
Speaker 1: in the thing about the, the, the, a roast that's

818
00:39:06,334 --> 00:39:09,494
Speaker 1: in a back room amongst friends. Yeah. Is very different

819
00:39:09,574 --> 00:39:14,494
Speaker 1: from a roast that is broadcast globally. And the company

820
00:39:14,533 --> 00:39:16,293
Speaker 1: in charge of it is like, we need to hire

821
00:39:16,334 --> 00:39:19,814
Speaker 1: the meanest, most scathing comedians to do this. And it

822
00:39:19,834 --> 00:39:24,044
Speaker 1: becomes less about, family relationships or friendships and more about

823
00:39:24,084 --> 00:39:27,364
Speaker 1: like comedians who know how to like go viral. Right.

824
00:39:27,524 --> 00:39:31,704
Speaker 3: And like, it shows like a younger generation of people,

825
00:39:32,053 --> 00:39:34,113
Speaker 3: an idea of this is what comedy is, you know?

826
00:39:34,294 --> 00:39:36,473
Speaker 3: And I think one of the hard things about standup

827
00:39:36,614 --> 00:39:39,373
Speaker 3: is so many people show up to their first open

828
00:39:39,393 --> 00:39:41,433
Speaker 3: mics with an idea of this is what comedy is.

829
00:39:41,893 --> 00:39:44,493
Speaker 3: And like, it takes some time for you to like,

830
00:39:44,734 --> 00:39:48,073
Speaker 3: let go of what you were raised with and figure

831
00:39:48,114 --> 00:39:49,453
Speaker 3: out what you want to be talking about.

832
00:39:49,493 --> 00:39:49,754
Speaker 1: Yes.

833
00:39:49,893 --> 00:39:50,154
Speaker 2: Yes.

834
00:39:50,594 --> 00:39:52,994
Speaker 1: I am a person who sometimes publicly takes positions that

835
00:39:53,033 --> 00:39:54,784
Speaker 1: are not popular. And yet I sort of go, here

836
00:39:54,803 --> 00:39:55,843
Speaker 1: we go. We're going to, I'm going to do a

837
00:39:55,864 --> 00:39:58,524
Speaker 1: four hour documentary about Bill Cosby and his cultural impact

838
00:39:58,564 --> 00:40:01,923
Speaker 1: in crimes. I've seen you go out there on things. The,

839
00:40:02,013 --> 00:40:03,783
Speaker 1: the biggest one I remember the first time I saw

840
00:40:03,803 --> 00:40:06,524
Speaker 1: you really was with, was with Brendan Fraser and the whale.

841
00:40:06,984 --> 00:40:11,943
Speaker 1: And I remember just being like, wow, he is how

842
00:40:12,344 --> 00:40:14,324
Speaker 1: you knew you were going to take slings and arrows

843
00:40:14,364 --> 00:40:16,984
Speaker 1: by doing that. Yes. And you're, can you talk about that?

844
00:40:17,044 --> 00:40:19,604
Speaker 1: And what the, what the, what the, uh, guy Brandon

845
00:40:19,623 --> 00:40:21,683
Speaker 1: math is when, you know, like, here I go.

846
00:40:22,183 --> 00:40:24,904
Speaker 3: Brendan Fraser is a great actor. He is much beloved.

847
00:40:25,044 --> 00:40:26,743
Speaker 3: And when he made the whale, it was so good

848
00:40:26,763 --> 00:40:29,944
Speaker 3: to have him back. And, um, Darren Aronofsky is a

849
00:40:30,004 --> 00:40:33,064
Speaker 3: much beloved director who is so respected. God knows we

850
00:40:33,084 --> 00:40:35,944
Speaker 3: have the council of white guys who are now in

851
00:40:35,964 --> 00:40:38,504
Speaker 3: their forties and fifties who can never be wrong, you know?

852
00:40:38,524 --> 00:40:41,303
Speaker 3: And we love, we love as a community having those

853
00:40:41,324 --> 00:40:44,734
Speaker 3: people who could never be wrong. And they made a

854
00:40:44,993 --> 00:40:47,953
Speaker 3: fat soup movie based on what I believe is a

855
00:40:48,154 --> 00:40:51,614
Speaker 3: bad play by a guy who used to be fat,

856
00:40:53,134 --> 00:40:55,674
Speaker 3: you know, like not a level of fat like I am.

857
00:40:56,513 --> 00:40:59,433
Speaker 3: about the experience of fatness that was all of the

858
00:40:59,513 --> 00:41:03,674
Speaker 3: worst cliches. And I find very fascinating that we cannot

859
00:41:03,714 --> 00:41:06,153
Speaker 3: tell a story about fatness without taking a person who

860
00:41:06,254 --> 00:41:10,413
Speaker 3: isn't fat and putting them in a couch, essentially. And

861
00:41:10,513 --> 00:41:13,073
Speaker 3: so it annoyed me. And the thing is, this is

862
00:41:13,114 --> 00:41:16,653
Speaker 3: very directly something that contributes to the dehumanization of me

863
00:41:16,734 --> 00:41:19,873
Speaker 3: and to people like me. And I need to understand

864
00:41:20,134 --> 00:41:25,763
Speaker 3: that that shit being something we think about can improve

865
00:41:26,384 --> 00:41:29,863
Speaker 3: my place in my career, you know? And so that

866
00:41:29,904 --> 00:41:34,274
Speaker 3: was something where it's just like, no, like shutting up

867
00:41:34,334 --> 00:41:38,173
Speaker 3: about this is accepting a level of dehumanization. And like

868
00:41:38,493 --> 00:41:40,114
Speaker 3: part of me at least needs to know that I

869
00:41:40,134 --> 00:41:43,354
Speaker 3: can say, stop it. And so I took a copy

870
00:41:43,594 --> 00:41:47,013
Speaker 3: of the play of the whale on a trip to

871
00:41:47,154 --> 00:41:49,493
Speaker 3: Europe with me. And then to Provincetown to just be like,

872
00:41:49,614 --> 00:41:51,433
Speaker 3: you imagine that the only thing that can happen to

873
00:41:51,473 --> 00:41:54,154
Speaker 3: a super fat person is they are who is gay.

874
00:41:54,774 --> 00:41:57,453
Speaker 3: is they are sad in their apartment in Idaho. I

875
00:41:57,493 --> 00:41:59,334
Speaker 3: am going to take the whale and let it have

876
00:42:00,314 --> 00:42:03,354
Speaker 3: a better option at life. And I'm interested in the

877
00:42:03,393 --> 00:42:08,244
Speaker 3: way that we talk about and represent fatness and what

878
00:42:08,953 --> 00:42:11,724
Speaker 3: fat people are capable of. Basically, we have this harsh

879
00:42:11,803 --> 00:42:15,724
Speaker 3: differentiation between a nice person who happens to be fat

880
00:42:15,844 --> 00:42:21,084
Speaker 3: and a fatness that overwhelms someone's identity. And it pissed

881
00:42:21,123 --> 00:42:22,643
Speaker 3: me off and I wasn't going to shut up about it.

882
00:42:23,274 --> 00:42:24,794
Speaker 1: Did you... I mean, I would imagine you heard from

883
00:42:24,814 --> 00:42:28,703
Speaker 1: people who were like, don't do this, or he's so nice, or.

884
00:42:28,824 --> 00:42:31,683
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, people were just like that, and they were like,

885
00:42:31,904 --> 00:42:35,183
Speaker 3: you just want that role for yourself. Like, you're a

886
00:42:35,223 --> 00:42:37,503
Speaker 3: bad actor, he's a good actor, and they could only

887
00:42:37,544 --> 00:42:39,723
Speaker 3: get a good actor to do that, and there aren't

888
00:42:39,783 --> 00:42:41,623
Speaker 3: any fat people who are good actors.

889
00:42:41,643 --> 00:42:44,783
Speaker 1: Or famous enough. Right. And it's their... I wonder why

890
00:42:44,803 --> 00:42:47,573
Speaker 1: there aren't any fat A-list actors. It's weird how I

891
00:42:47,574 --> 00:42:49,314
Speaker 1: guess none of them want to be. Well, I mean, like.

892
00:42:50,493 --> 00:42:53,834
Speaker 3: Very similarly, like three times in my professional career, I've

893
00:42:53,873 --> 00:42:57,694
Speaker 3: run into situations where there were casting needs for a

894
00:42:58,074 --> 00:43:01,184
Speaker 3: black gay man. And the extent to which casting directors

895
00:43:01,203 --> 00:43:03,383
Speaker 3: were like, how are we going to do this? It's

896
00:43:03,424 --> 00:43:05,484
Speaker 3: just how it's going to be impossible. How are we

897
00:43:05,504 --> 00:43:07,924
Speaker 3: going to do this? And I was at different points

898
00:43:07,984 --> 00:43:10,223
Speaker 3: in my career along the way. But the last one

899
00:43:10,464 --> 00:43:13,154
Speaker 3: that I got to, I was a writer on the show,

900
00:43:13,174 --> 00:43:16,854
Speaker 3: a mid-level writer. And I went to my showrunners and

901
00:43:16,913 --> 00:43:19,593
Speaker 3: I said, if they can't do this, can I try

902
00:43:19,614 --> 00:43:26,054
Speaker 3: to do it? And they were like, yes. And I went.

903
00:43:25,913 --> 00:43:28,573
Speaker 1: To lengths that I will have to talk to you

904
00:43:28,634 --> 00:43:39,643
Speaker 1: about off camera. Sure. gay asian man and gay asian

905
00:43:39,663 --> 00:43:40,383
Speaker 1: man again um.

906
00:43:41,303 --> 00:43:43,663
Speaker 3: When they needed it when they needed they needed a

907
00:43:44,143 --> 00:43:45,724
Speaker 3: black gay guy so they need.

908
00:43:45,623 --> 00:43:47,484
Speaker 1: A black gay guy they were straight asian man at

909
00:43:47,564 --> 00:43:50,303
Speaker 1: one point yes 100 okay i'm trying to make sure

910
00:43:50,324 --> 00:43:51,623
Speaker 1: that i was understanding just.

911
00:43:51,763 --> 00:43:55,673
Speaker 3: Having to have the conversation about why well the last

912
00:43:55,703 --> 00:43:58,873
Speaker 3: time they needed somebody who was over 55 and had

913
00:43:58,933 --> 00:44:01,593
Speaker 3: multicam experience and just sort of having to say like

914
00:44:01,973 --> 00:44:04,394
Speaker 3: because you did not write the roles for this person

915
00:44:04,433 --> 00:44:08,474
Speaker 3: to have He does not have the resume that you want.

916
00:44:08,893 --> 00:44:11,673
Speaker 3: Let's look at the resume that he has and see

917
00:44:11,714 --> 00:44:13,314
Speaker 3: if we can apply that to what's going on here.

918
00:44:13,334 --> 00:44:16,653
Speaker 3: And it ended up going down to two people, both

919
00:44:16,694 --> 00:44:20,924
Speaker 3: of whom were terrifically talented. But then also one of

920
00:44:20,993 --> 00:44:25,444
Speaker 3: our stars shot someone on the set of a Western movie.

921
00:44:25,803 --> 00:44:29,714
Speaker 3: And so the show didn't go forward.

922
00:44:29,953 --> 00:44:33,453
Speaker 1: That's not hard math to do, I'm pretty sure. So

923
00:44:33,754 --> 00:44:34,694
Speaker 1: that show didn't happen.

924
00:44:34,993 --> 00:44:40,254
Speaker 3: Yes, but it is just that thing of trying to

925
00:44:40,314 --> 00:44:45,674
Speaker 3: understand that my personhood is conditional in ways to people

926
00:44:45,844 --> 00:44:47,544
Speaker 3: and the things that we're going to need to do

927
00:44:47,564 --> 00:44:49,984
Speaker 3: to unmake that.

928
00:44:50,143 --> 00:44:52,384
Speaker 1: And it's been really interesting in.

929
00:44:53,163 --> 00:44:56,524
Speaker 3: A life to see the ways that that has shifted

930
00:44:56,564 --> 00:45:00,604
Speaker 3: within gayness and it has shifted within fatness kind of in,

931
00:45:01,803 --> 00:45:03,484
Speaker 3: you know, not equal directions.

932
00:45:03,984 --> 00:45:05,743
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, it's, it's interesting to think about like,

933
00:45:06,183 --> 00:45:08,224
Speaker 1: you don't have the resume to be hired to do

934
00:45:08,243 --> 00:45:10,033
Speaker 1: the job, but you don't have the resume because we

935
00:45:10,074 --> 00:45:11,953
Speaker 1: don't hire people like you. Right. So even if we

936
00:45:11,993 --> 00:45:13,933
Speaker 1: write a role for a person like you, we're not

937
00:45:13,953 --> 00:45:16,354
Speaker 1: going to hire you even though you're that person because

938
00:45:16,433 --> 00:45:18,294
Speaker 1: we haven't hired you enough for you to have the

939
00:45:18,334 --> 00:45:20,193
Speaker 1: experience to do the role we want you to do.

940
00:45:20,214 --> 00:45:22,854
Speaker 1: So it's your fault. Like a hundred percent.

941
00:45:22,873 --> 00:45:27,784
Speaker 3: Like two years ago, I, a director cast me in

942
00:45:27,803 --> 00:45:33,943
Speaker 3: a movie and like the, then the studio was like, no,

943
00:45:34,004 --> 00:45:36,343
Speaker 3: he is not famous enough. And it was for fat,

944
00:45:36,484 --> 00:45:39,724
Speaker 3: they needed fat gay guy who was over 45. And

945
00:45:39,783 --> 00:45:44,433
Speaker 3: then they ended up casting the hottest imaginable gay guy

946
00:45:44,734 --> 00:45:47,693
Speaker 3: for the role because, and it was just like, well, yes,

947
00:45:47,734 --> 00:45:51,074
Speaker 3: this is going to keep happening. And there's also, it's like,

948
00:45:53,354 --> 00:45:55,334
Speaker 3: in judaism there's this idea of like well i guess

949
00:45:55,373 --> 00:45:57,404
Speaker 3: it's in christianity as well of like moses seeing the

950
00:45:57,424 --> 00:45:59,094
Speaker 3: promised land but not getting to go to the promised

951
00:45:59,134 --> 00:46:01,343
Speaker 3: land and there are times when it is tempting to

952
00:46:01,384 --> 00:46:05,663
Speaker 3: think like that that is how gay acceptance of media

953
00:46:06,444 --> 00:46:08,004
Speaker 3: could be working for me and then it's like no

954
00:46:08,364 --> 00:46:10,363
Speaker 3: i'm not going to take that i'm going to get

955
00:46:10,404 --> 00:46:12,484
Speaker 3: to as close to the promised land as i can.

956
00:46:12,223 --> 00:46:14,783
Speaker 1: Yeah another issue i see you talking about that is

957
00:46:14,824 --> 00:46:16,804
Speaker 1: sort of very divisive and i understand the whole issue

958
00:46:16,844 --> 00:46:20,653
Speaker 1: of uh palestine and israel yes uh as and you

959
00:46:20,714 --> 00:46:23,014
Speaker 1: are a jew yeah i am a jew i just

960
00:46:23,033 --> 00:46:25,074
Speaker 1: want to be clear to give you yeah.

961
00:46:25,254 --> 00:46:29,554
Speaker 3: And the thing is is like um i i very

962
00:46:29,604 --> 00:46:32,004
Speaker 3: strongly believe at this point in time that everyone is

963
00:46:32,044 --> 00:46:34,444
Speaker 3: wrong about this like everyone is wrong about this and

964
00:46:34,484 --> 00:46:36,924
Speaker 3: to some extent if you have clean or simple beliefs

965
00:46:36,984 --> 00:46:40,524
Speaker 3: about it you are ignoring some dead children somewhere uh

966
00:46:40,584 --> 00:46:44,964
Speaker 3: and it's something that has really taught me important lessons about,

967
00:46:44,984 --> 00:46:47,243
Speaker 3: as somebody who was shoddy and political, of just sort

968
00:46:47,283 --> 00:46:51,323
Speaker 3: of like be quiet, listen, and question the things that

969
00:46:51,364 --> 00:46:55,614
Speaker 3: you were raised to believe. But like I, in October

970
00:46:55,654 --> 00:47:00,754
Speaker 3: of 2023, like when things were still very, very fresh

971
00:47:01,033 --> 00:47:06,733
Speaker 3: from the attacks that had happened in Southern Israel, like

972
00:47:07,194 --> 00:47:12,064
Speaker 3: I found the Bezalel Smotrich plan he's a member of

973
00:47:12,104 --> 00:47:16,163
Speaker 3: the Israeli cabinet for doing something so horrifying that the

974
00:47:16,183 --> 00:47:19,584
Speaker 3: people of the West Bank are willing to accept like

975
00:47:20,404 --> 00:47:24,094
Speaker 3: servitude essentially. And like that made very clear to me

976
00:47:24,283 --> 00:47:31,774
Speaker 3: that for those actors in the Israeli government, like not

977
00:47:31,893 --> 00:47:35,113
Speaker 3: using the word genocide is inappropriate. Like, and a lot

978
00:47:35,154 --> 00:47:37,363
Speaker 3: of Jews got mad at me about that. And it's

979
00:47:37,654 --> 00:47:42,223
Speaker 3: been a very hard situation to try to, respect the

980
00:47:42,243 --> 00:47:45,443
Speaker 3: different perspectives of the people around me. And also sort

981
00:47:45,484 --> 00:47:48,223
Speaker 3: of like, I mean, the thing is, is I'm sure

982
00:47:48,263 --> 00:47:50,024
Speaker 3: that people will watch this and be like, well, he's

983
00:47:50,243 --> 00:47:55,514
Speaker 3: terrible because he like won't call for this or whatever.

984
00:47:55,574 --> 00:47:57,754
Speaker 3: And the thing is, is like, I have to be

985
00:47:57,774 --> 00:48:02,274
Speaker 3: where I am, which is like, um, I understand the

986
00:48:02,354 --> 00:48:06,774
Speaker 3: reason and necessity for Jews to have a place because

987
00:48:06,794 --> 00:48:09,664
Speaker 3: I Things have been terrible for us and were horrible

988
00:48:09,683 --> 00:48:12,143
Speaker 3: for us when we did not have a place. Israel

989
00:48:12,484 --> 00:48:18,623
Speaker 3: was like, why am I talking about this? But also,

990
00:48:19,084 --> 00:48:23,294
Speaker 3: we need to acknowledge these things. The Jews in Israel

991
00:48:23,413 --> 00:48:26,354
Speaker 3: are the descendants of refugees. The Jews in Israel are,

992
00:48:26,373 --> 00:48:31,873
Speaker 3: by and large, the descendants of refugees, not volitional colonists.

993
00:48:32,634 --> 00:48:33,114
Speaker 1: That said.

994
00:48:33,654 --> 00:48:36,953
Speaker 3: It is a country that was built on dehumanization of

995
00:48:37,013 --> 00:48:40,453
Speaker 3: the population who were there. And this specific government is

996
00:48:40,674 --> 00:48:44,363
Speaker 3: one that is leveraging that for political power and some

997
00:48:44,404 --> 00:48:48,164
Speaker 3: sort of ridiculous idea of glory and expansion of the state.

998
00:48:48,683 --> 00:48:49,384
Speaker 1: It's terrifying.

999
00:48:49,424 --> 00:48:53,984
Speaker 3: And our country's politics and international relations have gotten dragged

1000
00:48:54,024 --> 00:48:54,483
Speaker 3: into that.

1001
00:48:54,504 --> 00:48:56,983
Speaker 1: And by our, you mean the United States of America? Yes. Yeah.

1002
00:48:57,303 --> 00:48:59,703
Speaker 3: And also, all of this has led to, I mean,

1003
00:49:00,643 --> 00:49:04,174
Speaker 3: horrifying death and violence and also a return of the

1004
00:49:04,594 --> 00:49:08,873
Speaker 3: kind of antisemitism that I did not think I would

1005
00:49:08,993 --> 00:49:11,444
Speaker 3: see again in my lifetime. And all of this is

1006
00:49:11,473 --> 00:49:16,384
Speaker 3: horrifying and generally why I try to not say something

1007
00:49:16,424 --> 00:49:22,864
Speaker 3: unless I have a really clear and definite, like, some

1008
00:49:23,263 --> 00:49:25,514
Speaker 3: strong degree of certainty that it needs to be said.

1009
00:49:25,993 --> 00:49:29,013
Speaker 3: I've tried to be quiet and listen and understand and

1010
00:49:29,053 --> 00:49:31,614
Speaker 3: question my own beliefs. But I have now, here, I

1011
00:49:31,674 --> 00:49:33,413
Speaker 3: expressed a bunch of things and I look forward to

1012
00:49:33,433 --> 00:49:33,933
Speaker 3: the comments.

1013
00:49:35,734 --> 00:49:37,334
Speaker 1: I guess this is where it comes. I mean, I

1014
00:49:37,354 --> 00:49:39,553
Speaker 1: feel like somebody watching this right now and he's going

1015
00:49:39,574 --> 00:49:42,633
Speaker 1: to be like, so wait, so is he okay? Is

1016
00:49:42,674 --> 00:49:45,423
Speaker 1: he free Palestine or is he, Israel has a right

1017
00:49:45,444 --> 00:49:46,623
Speaker 1: to exist or is he, you know?

1018
00:49:46,783 --> 00:49:51,044
Speaker 3: Like, I mean, to me, these things, like none of

1019
00:49:51,084 --> 00:49:53,923
Speaker 3: those people are going to go away. like Israel will

1020
00:49:53,964 --> 00:49:59,263
Speaker 3: continue existing. The people of Palestine must have safety and

1021
00:49:59,324 --> 00:50:03,654
Speaker 3: sovereignty and the right to protect themselves the way that

1022
00:50:03,844 --> 00:50:06,994
Speaker 3: Jews have been like so excited for the last 70

1023
00:50:06,993 --> 00:50:11,374
Speaker 3: years to have the right to protect ourselves. Um, like

1024
00:50:12,513 --> 00:50:16,093
Speaker 3: what is going on is untenable and dangerous and will

1025
00:50:16,134 --> 00:50:18,334
Speaker 3: continue to be so like there must be a free

1026
00:50:18,373 --> 00:50:21,174
Speaker 3: Palestine and imagining that Israel will.

1027
00:50:21,053 --> 00:50:29,223
Speaker 1: Just stop existing. is also like, it is magical thinking. Yeah.

1028
00:50:29,424 --> 00:50:31,224
Speaker 1: I mean, you're right. There's going to be people in

1029
00:50:31,243 --> 00:50:34,024
Speaker 1: the comments. Yeah. But I mean, I feel like I

1030
00:50:34,044 --> 00:50:35,464
Speaker 1: experienced that all the time too. When I try to

1031
00:50:35,484 --> 00:50:39,123
Speaker 1: like have a sort of say, here's the nuance and

1032
00:50:39,143 --> 00:50:40,723
Speaker 1: here's how I feel about it. Also, I'm not the

1033
00:50:40,743 --> 00:50:42,623
Speaker 1: smartest person. Also, I'm working through, I mean, I, you know,

1034
00:50:42,643 --> 00:50:45,004
Speaker 1: like I said, for our documentary about Bill Cosby was

1035
00:50:45,044 --> 00:50:46,544
Speaker 1: trying to start a nuanced conversation.

1036
00:50:46,564 --> 00:50:46,924
Speaker 2: Right.

1037
00:50:46,964 --> 00:50:49,024
Speaker 1: And yet, you know, I was uninvited from a lot

1038
00:50:49,044 --> 00:50:49,923
Speaker 1: of cookouts for a while.

1039
00:50:49,964 --> 00:50:50,643
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

1040
00:50:50,824 --> 00:50:52,443
Speaker 1: So I understand. I, that's what I say. I see,

1041
00:50:53,303 --> 00:50:55,223
Speaker 1: that in me that you know that thing that you're

1042
00:50:55,243 --> 00:50:57,443
Speaker 1: doing about like i'm just trying to understand and have

1043
00:50:57,504 --> 00:50:59,044
Speaker 1: a nuanced conversation here.

1044
00:50:59,344 --> 00:51:03,714
Speaker 3: Yeah and like also like as americans it's so simple

1045
00:51:03,993 --> 00:51:07,334
Speaker 3: to have big opinions and not follow them up by

1046
00:51:07,413 --> 00:51:11,033
Speaker 3: paying attention or learning about what's going on like it's

1047
00:51:11,114 --> 00:51:15,314
Speaker 3: why i try to have respect for people no one

1048
00:51:15,373 --> 00:51:16,774
Speaker 3: is going to be on the same page as me

1049
00:51:16,873 --> 00:51:20,104
Speaker 3: because like everyone's going to be in their own place

1050
00:51:20,344 --> 00:51:23,004
Speaker 3: on this and i try to really respect it. Like

1051
00:51:23,243 --> 00:51:26,704
Speaker 3: in Jewish situations over the course of the last year,

1052
00:51:27,123 --> 00:51:29,404
Speaker 3: a bunch of people have come up to me and

1053
00:51:29,424 --> 00:51:33,303
Speaker 3: been like, Hannah Einbinder said that at the Emmys. Did

1054
00:51:33,344 --> 00:51:35,464
Speaker 3: you tell her she was wrong? I was like, fuck you, no.

1055
00:51:35,924 --> 00:51:39,484
Speaker 3: Like she was standing up against a genocide and I

1056
00:51:39,544 --> 00:51:42,544
Speaker 3: respect her use of her voice in her moment and

1057
00:51:42,584 --> 00:51:47,104
Speaker 3: her politics. Like, yeah, like a hundred per fucking cent.

1058
00:51:47,183 --> 00:51:48,883
Speaker 3: But at the same time, if you come to me,

1059
00:51:49,544 --> 00:51:53,294
Speaker 3: like free Palestine, yes. But if like, Okay, why am

1060
00:51:53,314 --> 00:51:57,053
Speaker 3: I having this conversation come out? The thing is, I'm

1061
00:51:57,154 --> 00:52:01,754
Speaker 3: not gonna imagine that the seven or eight million Jewish

1062
00:52:01,794 --> 00:52:06,243
Speaker 3: people of Israel are just going to disappear. It's not

1063
00:52:06,283 --> 00:52:09,363
Speaker 3: politically helpful to think that these things are simple and

1064
00:52:09,544 --> 00:52:13,263
Speaker 3: that a snap of the fingers is going to solve this.

1065
00:52:14,004 --> 00:52:19,203
Speaker 1: Fair. Fair enough. I kept trying to sort of wrap

1066
00:52:19,223 --> 00:52:20,683
Speaker 1: you out of the conversation, but you had more to say.

1067
00:52:20,864 --> 00:52:24,984
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. Don't be sorry. I can't have... Feel free

1068
00:52:25,004 --> 00:52:45,013
Speaker 1: to cut that down. Thank you. Part of the reason

1069
00:52:45,033 --> 00:52:47,433
Speaker 1: I want to have this show is to have these conversations. Yes,

1070
00:52:47,493 --> 00:52:52,244
Speaker 1: I respect that. And also try to bring nuance back.

1071
00:52:52,424 --> 00:52:54,444
Speaker 1: Or the other thing I say is I'm trying to

1072
00:52:54,464 --> 00:52:57,383
Speaker 1: make male comedian podcasting great again. So I'm trying to like,

1073
00:52:57,444 --> 00:52:59,584
Speaker 1: this is a part of that. I respect that. I

1074
00:52:59,604 --> 00:53:01,504
Speaker 1: appreciate you having the conversation. We can move on to

1075
00:53:01,524 --> 00:53:05,623
Speaker 1: a much lighter category. Guy, my brother, why didn't you

1076
00:53:05,663 --> 00:53:08,114
Speaker 1: just compete on Celebrity Jeopardy where you could have cleaned up?

1077
00:53:09,203 --> 00:53:11,783
Speaker 1: As a Celebrity Jeopardy champion... When I saw you on

1078
00:53:11,824 --> 00:53:13,524
Speaker 1: regular Jeopardy, I was like, oh, that's amazing that he

1079
00:53:13,564 --> 00:53:14,643
Speaker 1: got on real Jeopardy.

1080
00:53:14,864 --> 00:53:17,184
Speaker 3: I am so proud of you and Ike and Lisa

1081
00:53:17,263 --> 00:53:20,703
Speaker 3: and Walter. Like that comedy people, like was a non-comedy

1082
00:53:20,723 --> 00:53:22,944
Speaker 3: person this year, but that comedy people were really tearing

1083
00:53:22,964 --> 00:53:26,243
Speaker 3: it up. I really respect it and appreciate it. And

1084
00:53:26,263 --> 00:53:28,684
Speaker 3: it was just, I don't know that I was famous

1085
00:53:28,723 --> 00:53:32,384
Speaker 3: enough to get on Celebrity Jeopardy. But after like truly

1086
00:53:32,384 --> 00:53:35,763
Speaker 3: 20 years of taking the test, they finally were just like, okay,

1087
00:53:35,803 --> 00:53:39,113
Speaker 3: this year. Um, like they responded to me and I

1088
00:53:39,174 --> 00:53:42,874
Speaker 3: was excited to do it and it was so much fun.

1089
00:53:43,134 --> 00:53:45,093
Speaker 1: Well, I'm glad I appreciate the fact you were on it.

1090
00:53:45,094 --> 00:53:46,964
Speaker 1: And I, but I was just like, first of all,

1091
00:53:46,973 --> 00:53:48,373
Speaker 1: I was like, Ooh, thank God he wasn't on celebrity

1092
00:53:48,393 --> 00:53:50,843
Speaker 1: jeopardy when I was on. But also I feel like

1093
00:53:50,864 --> 00:53:53,064
Speaker 1: they need to give you a spot on celebrity jeopardy.

1094
00:53:53,104 --> 00:53:54,343
Speaker 1: I feel like that's what I would like. I would

1095
00:53:54,384 --> 00:53:58,004
Speaker 1: like to make my use, whatever celebrity jeopardy championship status

1096
00:53:58,084 --> 00:54:00,604
Speaker 1: I have to say, let's put him on celebrity jeopardy.

1097
00:54:00,973 --> 00:54:02,024
Speaker 1: With the rest of us.

1098
00:54:02,053 --> 00:54:04,073
Speaker 3: They wouldn't let me do Celebrity Wheel of Fortune this

1099
00:54:04,094 --> 00:54:08,393
Speaker 3: year because I had already been on a bunch of Jeopardys.

1100
00:54:09,574 --> 00:54:14,204
Speaker 1: That's so fun. That's funny. You've already opted into regular

1101
00:54:14,243 --> 00:54:18,444
Speaker 1: person status. Yes. As if regular people never transcend to celebrities.

1102
00:54:18,464 --> 00:54:22,203
Speaker 1: That's never happened. But it was like, it was really cool.

1103
00:54:21,964 --> 00:54:24,243
Speaker 3: To get to engage with that community and those people

1104
00:54:24,283 --> 00:54:26,854
Speaker 3: because I really think, and like studying for Jeopardy and

1105
00:54:26,873 --> 00:54:28,873
Speaker 3: preparing for it, it really made me think about the

1106
00:54:28,893 --> 00:54:33,653
Speaker 3: way that Jeopardy has an idea of what America is

1107
00:54:33,834 --> 00:54:37,274
Speaker 3: and a respect for institutions and has also challenged itself

1108
00:54:37,393 --> 00:54:40,873
Speaker 3: over the course of the last decade to expand that.

1109
00:54:41,013 --> 00:54:43,303
Speaker 3: And they haven't done the best job, but they have

1110
00:54:43,663 --> 00:54:45,643
Speaker 3: made a real effort. And I really respect that.

1111
00:54:45,743 --> 00:54:47,703
Speaker 1: Well, I know because I've been back. I went back

1112
00:54:47,743 --> 00:54:50,924
Speaker 1: for Tournament of Champions where my pride achievement is that

1113
00:54:50,964 --> 00:54:53,104
Speaker 1: I made it to Final Jeopardy in Tournament of Champions.

1114
00:54:53,163 --> 00:54:55,294
Speaker 1: I didn't end up with the goose egg in the

1115
00:54:55,314 --> 00:54:57,133
Speaker 1: walk-off stage like, just wait, come out. You don't need

1116
00:54:57,154 --> 00:54:59,334
Speaker 1: to be up there. Um, so I feel proud about that.

1117
00:54:59,433 --> 00:55:02,274
Speaker 1: And I did celebrity all-stars where I didn't win this year, obviously, but, uh,

1118
00:55:02,754 --> 00:55:04,974
Speaker 1: I've been, but I also did a category for jeopardy

1119
00:55:05,074 --> 00:55:06,593
Speaker 1: and I know that they, I can't remember his name,

1120
00:55:06,614 --> 00:55:08,513
Speaker 1: but there's a black writer in jeopardy. And it's one

1121
00:55:08,533 --> 00:55:10,314
Speaker 1: of the things that's sort of like, it's crazy that

1122
00:55:10,334 --> 00:55:12,093
Speaker 1: that's a big deal, but it's a big deal because

1123
00:55:12,114 --> 00:55:14,364
Speaker 1: they had a long time that, you know, as you say, those,

1124
00:55:14,553 --> 00:55:17,303
Speaker 1: those white friends writers were not, we're holding all the

1125
00:55:17,344 --> 00:55:18,283
Speaker 1: writing jobs down for.

1126
00:55:18,484 --> 00:55:20,784
Speaker 3: And also that's not a room that turns over those

1127
00:55:20,844 --> 00:55:22,623
Speaker 3: people who stay there for like 20, 30 years at

1128
00:55:22,663 --> 00:55:24,183
Speaker 3: a time. And most of them were hired at a

1129
00:55:24,203 --> 00:55:26,703
Speaker 3: point in time. when you thought of writer's rooms as

1130
00:55:26,964 --> 00:55:29,403
Speaker 3: a thing that are composed of white men, you know?

1131
00:55:30,424 --> 00:55:34,984
Speaker 3: And so getting change in those institutions is hard and important.

1132
00:55:35,683 --> 00:55:39,134
Speaker 3: But there is always that weird question of, like, can

1133
00:55:39,154 --> 00:55:42,433
Speaker 3: these reformed institutions ever do the job, or do you

1134
00:55:42,473 --> 00:55:45,533
Speaker 3: have to be trying to build something else, you know?

1135
00:55:45,594 --> 00:55:47,993
Speaker 1: It's funny. I was on Threads this week, and a

1136
00:55:48,314 --> 00:55:49,904
Speaker 1: Black woman, I guess I was in the Black section

1137
00:55:49,944 --> 00:55:52,123
Speaker 1: of Threads, Black Threads, and a Black woman talked about,

1138
00:55:52,143 --> 00:55:53,783
Speaker 1: I think it was a Black woman, but talked about

1139
00:55:53,824 --> 00:55:56,993
Speaker 1: the idea that, like, It is interesting that the way

1140
00:55:57,033 --> 00:55:59,484
Speaker 1: that Jeopardy has set up, that it's sort of, by

1141
00:55:59,524 --> 00:56:01,723
Speaker 1: the way that it's set up, it sort of is

1142
00:56:01,743 --> 00:56:06,283
Speaker 1: skewed towards white men feeling comfortable guessing. Oh, yes. In

1143
00:56:06,324 --> 00:56:08,284
Speaker 1: ways that the rest of us don't. White straight men

1144
00:56:08,564 --> 00:56:10,683
Speaker 1: feel comfortable guessing about things in the way the rest

1145
00:56:10,723 --> 00:56:12,673
Speaker 1: of us are a little bit, like, trained to second

1146
00:56:12,714 --> 00:56:13,373
Speaker 1: guess ourselves.

1147
00:56:13,433 --> 00:56:15,754
Speaker 3: Okay, so I did competitive trivia when I was in

1148
00:56:15,814 --> 00:56:21,073
Speaker 3: college and in law school. And just the way that in,

1149
00:56:21,574 --> 00:56:25,053
Speaker 3: so in, like, Quiz Bowl and stuff, there are toss

1150
00:56:25,114 --> 00:56:26,734
Speaker 3: up things where you are taking a risk and then

1151
00:56:26,774 --> 00:56:29,573
Speaker 3: there are bonuses where you have a question and you

1152
00:56:29,634 --> 00:56:32,323
Speaker 3: as a team can collaborate on it. And women were very,

1153
00:56:32,364 --> 00:56:36,203
Speaker 3: very comfortable participating in the bonus questions, but were far

1154
00:56:36,263 --> 00:56:38,924
Speaker 3: more likely to only answer when they were certain about something.

1155
00:56:39,384 --> 00:56:43,283
Speaker 3: And like that issue of, do I feel comfortable just

1156
00:56:43,324 --> 00:56:46,453
Speaker 3: taking a risk like that is like a real thing.

1157
00:56:46,473 --> 00:56:49,134
Speaker 3: And it's such a socially defined thing. And there are like,

1158
00:56:49,834 --> 00:56:55,834
Speaker 3: as like a gay male, gender nonconforming person. There are

1159
00:56:55,973 --> 00:56:58,913
Speaker 3: aspects of patriarchy that I don't benefit from, but that one,

1160
00:56:59,194 --> 00:57:01,334
Speaker 3: I 100% do.

1161
00:57:01,574 --> 00:57:03,594
Speaker 1: You feel fine to just say stuff. Right.

1162
00:57:03,794 --> 00:57:06,593
Speaker 3: And it is really interesting and it is that game.

1163
00:57:06,614 --> 00:57:08,834
Speaker 3: And I think there is a different way of building

1164
00:57:08,854 --> 00:57:15,323
Speaker 3: a quiz show that caters to different approaches, to different

1165
00:57:15,364 --> 00:57:21,503
Speaker 3: ways of knowing. But will I lose all respective people

1166
00:57:21,544 --> 00:57:23,664
Speaker 3: around me if I take a swing and don't connect?

1167
00:57:24,404 --> 00:57:27,084
Speaker 3: is like a thing that people experience differently.

1168
00:57:27,264 --> 00:57:28,924
Speaker 1: Yeah. You know? Yeah. No, I think you're right. I

1169
00:57:28,944 --> 00:57:31,343
Speaker 1: think that, well, first of all, I'm happy to help

1170
00:57:31,364 --> 00:57:32,983
Speaker 1: build that quiz show for you because I do think,

1171
00:57:33,364 --> 00:57:34,944
Speaker 1: and even the Jeopardy thing, they have like, you know,

1172
00:57:34,964 --> 00:57:36,823
Speaker 1: they have Pop Culture Jeopardy. I know the guy who

1173
00:57:36,864 --> 00:57:39,144
Speaker 1: runs it, Michael Davies, thinks there's more juice in the

1174
00:57:39,164 --> 00:57:41,504
Speaker 1: Jeopardy family in the franchise. And so I think we could,

1175
00:57:41,804 --> 00:57:43,624
Speaker 1: we can totally go to him and pitch a new Jeopardy. Yeah.

1176
00:57:44,844 --> 00:57:47,343
Speaker 3: I've been trying to figure out like a straight up

1177
00:57:47,384 --> 00:57:49,984
Speaker 3: quiz show for a while now. Like the talk show

1178
00:57:50,024 --> 00:57:52,593
Speaker 3: that I did, had like, you know, talk show, the

1179
00:57:52,634 --> 00:57:54,954
Speaker 3: game show, talk show, the game show had some game

1180
00:57:54,974 --> 00:57:58,354
Speaker 3: show elements to it. Um, but like trying to figure

1181
00:57:58,374 --> 00:58:00,784
Speaker 3: out something like that, because those are great. And we

1182
00:58:00,844 --> 00:58:03,184
Speaker 3: all love a format that you can sell internationally for sure.

1183
00:58:03,204 --> 00:58:05,584
Speaker 1: For sure. Yeah. Uh, I'm going to ask you about

1184
00:58:05,604 --> 00:58:07,724
Speaker 1: your TV writing experience. You've written for a lot of

1185
00:58:07,744 --> 00:58:10,184
Speaker 1: TV in your career, but I've, I want to specifically

1186
00:58:10,284 --> 00:58:14,544
Speaker 1: use these two points in your career. Uh, Hacks, where

1187
00:58:14,584 --> 00:58:17,494
Speaker 1: you are now, and a little TV show, the little

1188
00:58:17,514 --> 00:58:20,674
Speaker 1: TV show that couldn't, totally biased with W. Kamau Bell.

1189
00:58:20,874 --> 00:58:22,713
Speaker 3: But also a TV show that was full of the

1190
00:58:22,754 --> 00:58:25,394
Speaker 3: stem cells that created a bunch of TV that we

1191
00:58:25,414 --> 00:58:29,234
Speaker 3: have now. Like, it really was ahead of its time

1192
00:58:29,354 --> 00:58:32,554
Speaker 3: in a way that I am really proud of. And also,

1193
00:58:33,214 --> 00:58:36,034
Speaker 3: it was really cool to be a white writer on

1194
00:58:36,054 --> 00:58:39,424
Speaker 3: a show that had a strong Black character to it

1195
00:58:40,004 --> 00:58:43,974
Speaker 3: and to get to experience, like, uh, comedy and culture

1196
00:58:44,524 --> 00:58:45,404
Speaker 3: through that prism.

1197
00:58:45,764 --> 00:58:47,404
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, thank you for doing that. I mean, it

1198
00:58:47,444 --> 00:58:49,664
Speaker 1: was like, to me, that shows like totally bias is

1199
00:58:49,684 --> 00:58:52,684
Speaker 1: such a fever dream where there's actually a late nighters

1200
00:58:52,724 --> 00:58:55,264
Speaker 1: working on a retrospective on totally bias this year. Oh really?

1201
00:58:55,304 --> 00:58:55,724
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1202
00:58:55,744 --> 00:58:57,044
Speaker 1: So you'll be, they'll probably reach out to you at

1203
00:58:57,064 --> 00:58:57,524
Speaker 1: some point.

1204
00:58:57,744 --> 00:59:00,564
Speaker 3: Um, well, I think they did just for rights for

1205
00:59:00,584 --> 00:59:03,184
Speaker 3: the clips. Um, but like one of the things that

1206
00:59:03,364 --> 00:59:07,304
Speaker 3: has been odd in my career was that, and like

1207
00:59:08,004 --> 00:59:13,684
Speaker 3: having like women of color, uh, like come up to

1208
00:59:13,724 --> 00:59:16,244
Speaker 3: me and say, like, it was a show that showed

1209
00:59:16,284 --> 00:59:18,554
Speaker 3: me for the first time that like, I could be

1210
00:59:18,834 --> 00:59:21,573
Speaker 3: a contributing voice or something like that. Very, similarly like

1211
00:59:21,674 --> 00:59:24,153
Speaker 3: i wrote for the mindy project for several years and

1212
00:59:24,614 --> 00:59:27,153
Speaker 3: i didn't think about it but the number of black

1213
00:59:27,194 --> 00:59:30,284
Speaker 3: women and dark-skinned women who weren't south asian who said

1214
00:59:30,324 --> 00:59:33,443
Speaker 3: like it was a show that made me realize women

1215
00:59:33,474 --> 00:59:36,744
Speaker 3: like me like just seeing someone like me be beautiful

1216
00:59:37,564 --> 00:59:39,954
Speaker 3: and well-dressed and fabulous on TV.

1217
00:59:40,404 --> 00:59:40,844
Speaker 1: Centered.

1218
00:59:41,344 --> 00:59:45,394
Speaker 3: Centered was very formative for them. And it's so cool

1219
00:59:45,414 --> 00:59:46,374
Speaker 3: to get to be part of that.

1220
00:59:46,454 --> 00:59:49,394
Speaker 1: Yeah. So do I owe you any apologies for Totally Biased?

1221
00:59:49,514 --> 00:59:49,774
Speaker 3: No.

1222
00:59:49,894 --> 00:59:52,613
Speaker 1: It was a lovely experience. When I think about that,

1223
00:59:52,634 --> 00:59:55,374
Speaker 1: I think about, man, how hard that show was on

1224
00:59:55,414 --> 00:59:56,713
Speaker 1: me at the time. It's a hard job.

1225
00:59:56,774 --> 00:59:59,134
Speaker 3: And I think anytime your name is in the show,

1226
00:59:59,194 --> 01:00:00,634
Speaker 3: it makes you a little bit crazier.

1227
01:00:00,674 --> 01:00:01,414
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.

1228
01:00:02,214 --> 01:00:05,014
Speaker 3: But yeah, Hacks is an awesome show to be on.

1229
01:00:05,194 --> 01:00:09,823
Speaker 3: I have written for a bunch of comedy ladies. And

1230
01:00:09,884 --> 01:00:13,204
Speaker 3: so that was one of the reasons that I got

1231
01:00:13,304 --> 01:00:16,514
Speaker 3: hired and, you know, I had experience with Chelsea Handler

1232
01:00:16,534 --> 01:00:19,254
Speaker 3: and Mindy and Joan Rivers and stuff like that. And

1233
01:00:19,314 --> 01:00:21,874
Speaker 3: so that was really helpful, but getting to do a

1234
01:00:21,914 --> 01:00:26,734
Speaker 3: show that is like really funny and like tries to

1235
01:00:26,774 --> 01:00:27,834
Speaker 3: tell real stories.

1236
01:00:27,894 --> 01:00:28,274
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1237
01:00:28,894 --> 01:00:32,564
Speaker 3: It was really fun, but like totally biased was just

1238
01:00:32,624 --> 01:00:38,364
Speaker 3: fun because we were, recreating late nights in real time.

1239
01:00:38,884 --> 01:00:41,264
Speaker 3: And like we took a bunch of swings in a

1240
01:00:41,284 --> 01:00:44,924
Speaker 3: bunch of different directions and it was really fun. And

1241
01:00:44,964 --> 01:00:49,274
Speaker 3: it wasn't something that people were doing and watching, you know,

1242
01:00:49,754 --> 01:00:53,974
Speaker 3: like four or five years later when Samantha Bee and

1243
01:00:54,954 --> 01:00:56,894
Speaker 3: what's his name on HBO that.

1244
01:00:56,814 --> 01:00:58,474
Speaker 1: Kevin wrote for, John Oliver.

1245
01:00:58,804 --> 01:01:00,823
Speaker 3: Like all of these shows were really trying to do

1246
01:01:00,884 --> 01:01:05,374
Speaker 3: something that was very funny, but was thinking about politics

1247
01:01:05,414 --> 01:01:08,954
Speaker 3: a little bit more and thinking about social questions more, um,

1248
01:01:09,254 --> 01:01:14,014
Speaker 3: was really cool and fun. And then also like every

1249
01:01:14,054 --> 01:01:16,454
Speaker 3: writer's room I have been in since 2020 has just

1250
01:01:16,494 --> 01:01:19,724
Speaker 3: been more diverse because there were bigger thoughts about that

1251
01:01:20,204 --> 01:01:23,544
Speaker 3: and seeing like writer's rooms that looked more like the

1252
01:01:23,584 --> 01:01:27,224
Speaker 3: writer's rooms that we had in 2013 at like, uh,

1253
01:01:27,304 --> 01:01:31,354
Speaker 3: totally biased be something that, just is taken for granted now.

1254
01:01:31,434 --> 01:01:35,074
Speaker 1: No, we had a very small white heterosexual man section

1255
01:01:35,094 --> 01:01:36,474
Speaker 1: in that room. We had them, we had them.

1256
01:01:36,494 --> 01:01:36,804
Speaker 2: Yes.

1257
01:01:37,004 --> 01:01:38,704
Speaker 1: But it was certainly not the majority of the room.

1258
01:01:39,044 --> 01:01:42,084
Speaker 3: Yeah, and they were lovely and good. And the thing

1259
01:01:42,104 --> 01:01:47,034
Speaker 3: is that everyone's voice is changed by having more diversity present.

1260
01:01:47,154 --> 01:01:51,614
Speaker 3: Everyone thinks about things differently by having more diversity present.

1261
01:01:51,734 --> 01:01:55,153
Speaker 3: And I think that that's really valuable. It's not just

1262
01:01:55,274 --> 01:01:58,534
Speaker 3: what are... the people of color or queer people or

1263
01:01:58,594 --> 01:02:01,294
Speaker 3: women contributing to a room. But how does that change

1264
01:02:01,354 --> 01:02:02,753
Speaker 3: how the white man is going to work?

1265
01:02:06,004 --> 01:02:08,664
Speaker 1: And those white guys we had, Danny and Ned and

1266
01:02:09,464 --> 01:02:11,363
Speaker 1: TV's Frank Conniff. I mean, I really have a lot

1267
01:02:11,404 --> 01:02:12,464
Speaker 1: of love for those guys.

1268
01:02:12,744 --> 01:02:17,904
Speaker 3: And also, those were weird and goofy guys. And I

1269
01:02:17,944 --> 01:02:21,633
Speaker 3: really loved the very Bay Area character of what that

1270
01:02:21,684 --> 01:02:23,474
Speaker 3: show did and the weird.

1271
01:02:24,924 --> 01:02:26,464
Speaker 1: big swing goofiness.

1272
01:02:26,604 --> 01:02:29,304
Speaker 3: And also, you know, I got lots of quality time

1273
01:02:29,324 --> 01:02:31,804
Speaker 3: with Janine Frito and just got to watch her movie

1274
01:02:31,844 --> 01:02:32,844
Speaker 3: that she wrote with her wife.

1275
01:02:33,174 --> 01:02:37,254
Speaker 1: Oh, wow. That's great. Oh, that's great. It was really cool.

1276
01:02:37,274 --> 01:02:39,154
Speaker 1: I haven't talked to Janine in a long time. We texted,

1277
01:02:39,214 --> 01:02:41,414
Speaker 1: I think, during COVID. Like, I'm like, how you doing?

1278
01:02:41,434 --> 01:02:43,494
Speaker 3: That's because she disappeared to the hills to raise her

1279
01:02:43,634 --> 01:02:46,573
Speaker 3: disabled animals because that's what lesbians do.

1280
01:02:46,574 --> 01:02:51,954
Speaker 1: Good for her. Yes. So my penultimate question is, I

1281
01:02:52,014 --> 01:02:53,903
Speaker 1: ask everybody to come in here if there's a charity

1282
01:02:54,014 --> 01:02:56,403
Speaker 1: or a cause they want to support or let people

1283
01:02:56,464 --> 01:02:58,644
Speaker 1: know about anything that's going on in the world that

1284
01:02:58,664 --> 01:03:00,284
Speaker 1: you're like, I want people to pay attention to this.

1285
01:03:00,504 --> 01:03:03,564
Speaker 1: Because again, this podcast is not just about like the chitchat.

1286
01:03:03,604 --> 01:03:05,954
Speaker 1: It's also about my audience wants homework. So give these

1287
01:03:05,974 --> 01:03:06,614
Speaker 1: people some homework.

1288
01:03:06,774 --> 01:03:10,734
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm always going to pay attention to Lambda

1289
01:03:10,754 --> 01:03:14,134
Speaker 3: Legal and the ACLU. And it's like a weirder, harder

1290
01:03:14,194 --> 01:03:17,823
Speaker 3: time right now because... We have a Supreme Court that

1291
01:03:17,864 --> 01:03:20,674
Speaker 3: is very willing to take away rights.

1292
01:03:22,014 --> 01:03:27,324
Speaker 1: So I would say that. Lambda Legal. First of all,

1293
01:03:27,334 --> 01:03:28,954
Speaker 1: we didn't talk about this, but you are a lawyer.

1294
01:03:29,194 --> 01:03:31,923
Speaker 1: I don't know if you still have an active license. No,

1295
01:03:31,954 --> 01:03:32,264
Speaker 1: I don't.

1296
01:03:32,444 --> 01:03:36,644
Speaker 3: But Lambda Legal is a queer legal advocacy organization that

1297
01:03:36,664 --> 01:03:39,744
Speaker 3: does educational work, but they also do legal advocacy work.

1298
01:03:40,154 --> 01:03:43,254
Speaker 3: and the educational part is like a 501 three or

1299
01:03:43,254 --> 01:03:45,034
Speaker 3: 503 C like nonprofit.

1300
01:03:45,094 --> 01:03:47,374
Speaker 1: And the other one is like too political to be that.

1301
01:03:47,994 --> 01:03:50,894
Speaker 3: Um, but you know, it's like the people who are

1302
01:03:50,934 --> 01:03:56,324
Speaker 3: out there fighting for the legal rights that these communities need.

1303
01:03:56,444 --> 01:03:59,823
Speaker 3: And the ACLU, Louis Brandeis has been trying to make

1304
01:03:59,904 --> 01:04:03,664
Speaker 3: sure that everyone's rights are understood and represented in this country.

1305
01:04:04,144 --> 01:04:07,814
Speaker 3: But I also think right now, like anything you can

1306
01:04:07,854 --> 01:04:12,404
Speaker 3: do for, um, voting rights and voter participation after having

1307
01:04:12,504 --> 01:04:17,184
Speaker 3: the voting rights act truly decimated like it's it's easy

1308
01:04:17,244 --> 01:04:19,804
Speaker 3: to ignore the way that these things are going to

1309
01:04:19,964 --> 01:04:24,414
Speaker 3: change what politics looks like in this country um yeah.

1310
01:04:24,734 --> 01:04:26,914
Speaker 1: Yeah so there's a great organization called black voters matter

1311
01:04:27,414 --> 01:04:29,113
Speaker 1: that started out of georgia but out of the south

1312
01:04:29,134 --> 01:04:30,994
Speaker 1: but it's certainly doing the front lines of all this

1313
01:04:31,114 --> 01:04:33,854
Speaker 1: voters right work right now to try to help uh

1314
01:04:34,014 --> 01:04:35,734
Speaker 1: make up for the fact that the voting voting rights

1315
01:04:35,774 --> 01:04:36,593
Speaker 1: act was gutted.

1316
01:04:36,614 --> 01:04:38,423
Speaker 3: Oh but there's another charity i want to talk about

1317
01:04:38,444 --> 01:04:41,544
Speaker 3: oh great for um for what I was maybe going

1318
01:04:41,604 --> 01:04:44,144
Speaker 3: to do celebrity wheel of fortune. They were like, what's

1319
01:04:44,184 --> 01:04:46,044
Speaker 3: your charity. And I was thinking about it. And a

1320
01:04:46,064 --> 01:04:47,664
Speaker 3: couple of years ago, I got into a fight on

1321
01:04:47,764 --> 01:04:50,534
Speaker 3: Twitter with a guy. And then when I was figuring

1322
01:04:50,674 --> 01:04:55,354
Speaker 3: out who he was, he started a charity called, um,

1323
01:04:55,554 --> 01:04:58,394
Speaker 3: students of color abroad. And then I thought that that

1324
01:04:58,434 --> 01:05:02,133
Speaker 3: was awesome because it's an aspect of life that we

1325
01:05:02,174 --> 01:05:05,224
Speaker 3: don't think about. Like we're, we're so frequently trying to, uh,

1326
01:05:06,464 --> 01:05:11,304
Speaker 3: equalize the most basic aspects of education and opportunity and

1327
01:05:11,364 --> 01:05:14,524
Speaker 3: just the opportunity to go be in another country is

1328
01:05:14,584 --> 01:05:17,704
Speaker 3: something that like poor people in america people from the

1329
01:05:17,724 --> 01:05:20,164
Speaker 3: community that i was raised in and kids of color

1330
01:05:20,204 --> 01:05:22,364
Speaker 3: don't have and so i thought it's a really awesome

1331
01:05:22,404 --> 01:05:25,874
Speaker 3: program students of color abroad uh give money to them

1332
01:05:26,254 --> 01:05:27,374
Speaker 3: like they are great.

1333
01:05:27,214 --> 01:05:28,514
Speaker 1: So you got into a fight with him and now

1334
01:05:28,534 --> 01:05:31,534
Speaker 1: you're promoting his non-profit yes okay what was the fight

1335
01:05:31,574 --> 01:05:35,423
Speaker 1: over I literally have no memory. Are you guys friends now?

1336
01:05:35,444 --> 01:05:35,964
Speaker 1: You're friendly now?

1337
01:05:35,984 --> 01:05:39,484
Speaker 3: Yes. I was just like, I saw that and I

1338
01:05:39,544 --> 01:05:43,503
Speaker 3: gave 50 bucks to his nonprofit and then he saw

1339
01:05:43,544 --> 01:05:45,524
Speaker 3: that I had given 50 bucks to his nonprofit and

1340
01:05:45,544 --> 01:05:46,963
Speaker 3: he was like, thanks, I appreciate that.

1341
01:05:47,564 --> 01:05:50,784
Speaker 1: And it was just like, internet fights are dumb. Yeah, no,

1342
01:05:50,824 --> 01:05:52,043
Speaker 1: for sure. So everyone who.

1343
01:05:51,984 --> 01:05:57,903
Speaker 3: In the comments said that I was a monster or

1344
01:05:59,244 --> 01:06:02,454
Speaker 3: a traitor to the Jews and a capo I just

1345
01:06:02,474 --> 01:06:03,894
Speaker 3: want to say we could be friends.

1346
01:06:03,974 --> 01:06:06,914
Speaker 1: Let's see if we can get there. We can get there.

1347
01:06:07,174 --> 01:06:10,343
Speaker 1: We can work it out. My last question is the

1348
01:06:10,364 --> 01:06:11,984
Speaker 1: podcast is who's with me. So are you with me?

1349
01:06:12,004 --> 01:06:15,064
Speaker 1: Of course, always. Good, good. I figured you were, but

1350
01:06:15,104 --> 01:06:17,544
Speaker 1: I got to ask. Look, once on the team, always

1351
01:06:17,584 --> 01:06:20,524
Speaker 1: on the team, you know? Appreciate that. And Melissa will

1352
01:06:20,544 --> 01:06:23,844
Speaker 1: appreciate that again. My wife loves you. I love you guys.

1353
01:06:24,104 --> 01:06:27,613
Speaker 3: And I enjoy getting to work so closely with you.

1354
01:06:28,014 --> 01:06:29,894
Speaker 3: And I miss getting to see you as much, both

1355
01:06:29,914 --> 01:06:30,153
Speaker 3: of you.

1356
01:06:30,174 --> 01:06:35,504
Speaker 1: Same, same. Thanks for listening to the podcast. Again, that

1357
01:06:35,524 --> 01:06:38,383
Speaker 1: was me and my guest guy, Branham, a rock and

1358
01:06:38,444 --> 01:06:42,444
Speaker 1: rolling rollercoaster of a podcast. You can follow him on

1359
01:06:42,484 --> 01:06:46,604
Speaker 1: his social medias. He's on threads. He's on Instagram. Check

1360
01:06:46,664 --> 01:06:49,844
Speaker 1: out old gays. Remember on Instagram, maybe on YouTube too.

1361
01:06:50,994 --> 01:06:54,834
Speaker 1: Also again, pre-order my new book with Adam man's back rock, paper, scissors, cheese.

1362
01:06:55,774 --> 01:06:58,093
Speaker 1: All the links will be below in the show notes

1363
01:06:58,154 --> 01:07:00,654
Speaker 1: or wherever you get the show notes. Guy mentioned a

1364
01:07:00,694 --> 01:07:03,504
Speaker 1: few things. He mentioned a few causes that he wants

1365
01:07:03,524 --> 01:07:05,863
Speaker 1: to support. The ACLU, which of course I'm down for,

1366
01:07:05,884 --> 01:07:11,544
Speaker 1: the ACLU. Lambda Legal. Teens of Color Abroad. Three great

1367
01:07:11,744 --> 01:07:14,544
Speaker 1: organizations he mentioned. And then we talked about voting rights.

1368
01:07:14,684 --> 01:07:16,923
Speaker 1: I mentioned Black Voters Matter, which is a great voting

1369
01:07:16,974 --> 01:07:20,414
Speaker 1: rights organization. So you can check out those organizations. ACLU,

1370
01:07:20,434 --> 01:07:24,354
Speaker 1: which fights for our rights. Lambda Legal, which fights specifically

1371
01:07:24,374 --> 01:07:26,994
Speaker 1: for gay folks. Teens of Color Abroad, which sounds great,

1372
01:07:27,054 --> 01:07:29,774
Speaker 1: takes teens... color and lets them get out of the country,

1373
01:07:29,834 --> 01:07:32,614
Speaker 1: which hopefully they can get some passports. And again, Black

1374
01:07:32,674 --> 01:07:36,474
Speaker 1: Voters Matter, which is about helping black voters in the South,

1375
01:07:36,534 --> 01:07:38,823
Speaker 1: but also across the country and really working hard to

1376
01:07:38,864 --> 01:07:41,024
Speaker 1: restore the Voting Rights Act. And I also remember there

1377
01:07:41,044 --> 01:07:43,204
Speaker 1: was a point in the episode where we laughed at

1378
01:07:43,224 --> 01:07:47,104
Speaker 1: something that later I look back and go, that laugh is... Basically,

1379
01:07:47,144 --> 01:07:50,084
Speaker 1: when Guy mentioned the tragedy of Alec Baldwin, it came

1380
01:07:50,184 --> 01:07:52,514
Speaker 1: so out of left field that I laughed. Like, whoa,

1381
01:07:52,534 --> 01:07:54,554
Speaker 1: I wasn't expecting that. But I don't want anybody to

1382
01:07:54,634 --> 01:07:57,304
Speaker 1: think that me or Guy thinks that is a funny situation.

1383
01:07:57,344 --> 01:08:00,524
Speaker 1: So I also want to mention the Halna Hutchins Memorial

1384
01:08:00,544 --> 01:08:03,664
Speaker 1: Scholarship Fund. It's through AFI, the American Film Institute. Again,

1385
01:08:03,684 --> 01:08:08,343
Speaker 1: the Halna Hutchins Memorial Scholarship Fund, which just supports the

1386
01:08:08,364 --> 01:08:11,374
Speaker 1: woman who was killed in that horrible accident on the

1387
01:08:11,394 --> 01:08:13,554
Speaker 1: set of that movie. Again, just want to be conscious

1388
01:08:13,574 --> 01:08:16,174
Speaker 1: of what we're doing here. And laughter is sometimes like, whoa,

1389
01:08:16,214 --> 01:08:18,134
Speaker 1: that was surprising. That was that laugh. I don't want

1390
01:08:18,154 --> 01:08:19,834
Speaker 1: you to think that means that we don't take that

1391
01:08:19,954 --> 01:08:23,693
Speaker 1: tragedy seriously. So please support the Halna Hutchins Memorial Fund.

1392
01:08:24,174 --> 01:08:27,594
Speaker 1: Thanks to Rabogren Productions, Pushkin Industries, Who Knows Best Productions,

1393
01:08:27,714 --> 01:08:30,864
Speaker 1: which is me. Special thanks to Chris Dowd from Fishbone

1394
01:08:30,904 --> 01:08:33,344
Speaker 1: for the theme music. And again, this weekend is really important.

1395
01:08:33,384 --> 01:08:35,884
Speaker 1: Do something good for yourself, for your community, and for

1396
01:08:35,924 --> 01:08:37,284
Speaker 1: the world. Take care.