Speaker 1: Welcome to Decisions Decisions.
Speaker 2: I don't think you should say decision decisions.
Speaker 1: It sounded like you was talking to Kirsty. You definitely
Speaker 1: say to welcome, Welcome to the new podcast.
Speaker 3: May you want to say together, decisions decisions?
Speaker 1: Mike check, Mike check? Is this thing on?
Speaker 4: Hey, guys, we are exactly one week out from the
Speaker 4: release of our book, No Holds Barred, a dual manifesto
Speaker 4: of sexual exploration and power written by yours truly, your
Speaker 4: girl Mandy B and we ZWTF And I wanted to
Speaker 4: let y'all know you have the chance to meet us,
Speaker 4: keep your book signed, and experience guided conversations with us
Speaker 4: about this book.
Speaker 2: And so I'm about to ring off the date to you, guys.
Speaker 4: Hopefully we're able to see you so on June twenty third,
Speaker 4: virtually we are doing another talk shop live where you
Speaker 4: can literally join us and ask us anything you'd like
Speaker 4: about the book.
Speaker 1: While also ordering it. You get a signed.
Speaker 4: Version of the copy from our talk Shop Live event.
Speaker 4: June twenty fourth at seven pm. We are at the
Speaker 4: Word Bookstore in Brooklyn, New York, with a guided conversation.
Speaker 4: June twenty fifth, at seven pm. Come and get your signatures.
Speaker 1: At Uncle Bobby's.
Speaker 2: That's right, we are signing your books there.
Speaker 4: June twenty sixth at seven pm, we are at Solid
Speaker 4: State Books in Washington, d C. And then join us
Speaker 4: as well June twenty seventh at five pm in New
Speaker 4: Haven Pride Center. That's New Haven, Connecticut. And then twenty
Speaker 4: ninth Atlanta joe Ja three pm. You can join me
Speaker 4: and some good friends for a conversation as well as
Speaker 4: book signing.
Speaker 1: And La Weezi is not leaving you hanging.
Speaker 4: July second, at seven pm she will be at Reparations
Speaker 4: with Shan Boudram.
Speaker 1: Really really, really excited to have you guys.
Speaker 4: Join us on this monumental week of our book release,
Speaker 4: No Holds Barred. Go to our Instagram page, get your
Speaker 4: tickets or put it in your calendars to pull up
Speaker 4: to these bookstores to meet us in person again during
Speaker 4: the week of our release of No Holds barn We
Speaker 4: cannot wait to see you there. Welcome everybody to another
Speaker 4: episode of DC.
Speaker 1: The y'alls, The City, y'alls. It's your girl, maybe b
Speaker 1: a Ka dat Beach. It's weazy.
Speaker 3: We're having another three so with somebody from Survival of
Speaker 3: the Ticket.
Speaker 1: We have.
Speaker 4: We have actress Jerry Johnson from Harlem and Survival of
Speaker 4: the Thickest and a lot more. But I do want
Speaker 4: to talk about your two roles there. So that's what
Speaker 4: you could sit and watch. Now, are they They're both
Speaker 4: on One is on Netflix, one is on.
Speaker 5: Hulu, Amazon Prime, Amazon Prime Prime Video Prime.
Speaker 4: There we go, Prime Video. Welcome Jerry to the plot.
Speaker 4: I've been trying to make this happen for a very
Speaker 4: long time.
Speaker 1: Since last year.
Speaker 4: I'm well, No, I met Jerry through both of our
Speaker 4: male friends or mutual friends.
Speaker 1: Yes, So we all went out one night.
Speaker 4: After it was Paddle of the Sexes, Yes, And so
Speaker 4: we go to I don't even remember some bar. We drinking,
Speaker 4: and everyone at the table's kind of having their own conversations,
Speaker 4: and I think, I don't even know what the fuck
Speaker 4: it she was talking to, but I end up getting
Speaker 4: into deep talks. Wait this one right here, and I
Speaker 4: was like, oh my god, I think I love you,
Speaker 4: but I don't love you because you're a taking woman
Speaker 4: and I'm gonna respect that. But also we have to
Speaker 4: bring you onto the show to talk about all things.
Speaker 4: So I guess before we start, how do you identify
Speaker 4: what is your relationship status, and I don't want to
Speaker 4: say age. She never asked this, so this one, no,
Speaker 4: this is before because I want to get into the
Speaker 4: character she plays, and then all the things. So yeah,
Speaker 4: identity and relationship status and if you're a lifestylear, what's
Speaker 4: the bubble or.
Speaker 1: A label if you align with any I am the
Speaker 1: Jerry Johnson.
Speaker 5: I identify as a non binary person. But any respectable pronouns
Speaker 5: work for me.
Speaker 1: Queen. Mostly you know, I am currently engaged.
Speaker 5: I am polyamorous, so we are open and.
Speaker 1: I'm a lot of things. We can get into things
Speaker 1: that I've heard about.
Speaker 3: So I haven't gotten to watch Harlem resp yet but
Speaker 3: found this picture. I have to show it to me
Speaker 3: because this photo got sent to me three times, one
Speaker 3: spy Brianda, one spy, two random fans. And it was
Speaker 3: the first time I came across your page. Someone said,
Speaker 3: why are you and Mandy kissing in this photos?
Speaker 1: Oh my god, stop it.
Speaker 3: Very and I was like, my hair is dark right now,
Speaker 3: but this time my hair we look at Jerry is Wow.
Speaker 4: That ship was so fucking it's cool. Let's be let's
Speaker 4: be very clear. I am sent every light skin to
Speaker 4: light brown skinned woman with short blonde hair and some ass.
Speaker 3: It was to you blonde, then the brain it was
Speaker 3: like it was literally our hol asthetic always. Then the
Speaker 3: second thing was my partner watches Harlem, so I was like.
Speaker 1: Oh, we're having this girl on it.
Speaker 3: Before I could say it, he was like, oh, don't
Speaker 3: want to be fucking bitchous.
Speaker 1: And I was like I love that. Wow, what do
Speaker 1: you know?
Speaker 3: And he was like m I was like, ooh, this
Speaker 3: is one where she fucking his lady and then she
Speaker 3: go downstairs and she was sucking the daughter too, and
Speaker 3: she just out here in the show.
Speaker 1: I mean she was living player ship. I was like, ow,
Speaker 1: mind you.
Speaker 3: The only reason he started watching the show he told
Speaker 3: me a woman that he dated previously hit him up
Speaker 3: and said hey, because I think he told some previous
Speaker 3: partners like I have a girlfriend now whatever. She was like,
Speaker 3: you need to watch Harlem because Kofi like uses the
Speaker 3: same language like Kofe like talks to talk Boks.
Speaker 5: Which I told them. I was like, we need a
Speaker 5: polyamorous storyline.
Speaker 1: Wait, you got that out of the writer.
Speaker 5: I was like, yes, I wanted Tie to re poly
Speaker 5: but then when I read the script, I was like, oh, Okay,
Speaker 5: this this works out, yeah because it because it also
Speaker 5: gives Quinn a new thing to battle with. But yeah,
Speaker 5: when we had the after season two, we had the
Speaker 5: conversation about like what kind of things you want to see,
Speaker 5: and there were some things like meeting my family that
Speaker 5: we just didn't have time to do. But I was like,
Speaker 5: we need to talk about polyamory. So then they became
Speaker 5: curious and I was like, y'all need to read poly Secure,
Speaker 5: y'all need to read uh, the Ethical Slut and all
Speaker 5: of these things. And I was telling them about my
Speaker 5: experience and then when I read it, and I was like, okay,
Speaker 5: and I love that he was ethically thank you, non
Speaker 5: monogamous ethically.
Speaker 1: So basically basically found out people were calling my nigga coke.
Speaker 4: So we could blame Harlem then for him going on
Speaker 4: the press run talking about his non monography because he
Speaker 4: did it was but maybe I don't know if he
Speaker 4: learned it there. I know that we've been seeing. So
Speaker 4: let me ask you, because your your characters are I
Speaker 4: guess somewhat similar to me, between Survival of the Thickest
Speaker 4: and Barlas Square Women Boss that right, what is that
Speaker 4: important for you to play that role, and is there
Speaker 4: another role you would like to play like you or
Speaker 4: do you feel like right now you're being pigeonholed into them?
Speaker 1: I want to play everything. I can play everything here.
Speaker 5: I think this happens to be like, you know, people
Speaker 5: saw me as tie and then they felt like they
Speaker 5: you know, it feels like the if you're looking for
Speaker 5: this kind of person, like you know she can do that, right,
Speaker 5: And I think.
Speaker 1: But Tracy took a chance.
Speaker 5: You know, I was fresh out of grad school, you know,
Speaker 5: and so and I was doing plays right, But now
Speaker 5: it's like people don't know that I'm a stage actor
Speaker 5: first because they haven't seen that. And so it's really
Speaker 5: about like who in the industry is willing to take
Speaker 5: the chance for you to do something different? And where
Speaker 5: is it like, oh, well, we need somebody who we
Speaker 5: know can do this thing, so we're going to hire
Speaker 5: you to do that thing because we know you can
Speaker 5: do it.
Speaker 3: It's great sexual Sorry for anyone listening, Mandy and I
Speaker 3: aren't looking at each other for being queer, being whatever
Speaker 3: you identify as, but just sexually fluid. Do you think
Speaker 3: that it kind of plays up and is a plus
Speaker 3: for when you're looking for certain roles. Do you think
Speaker 3: it's a look or do you think it's actually that
Speaker 3: you live that lifestyle.
Speaker 1: I think it's both.
Speaker 5: I think so when I talked to Tracy about why
Speaker 5: I was the first one to be hired for Harlem,
Speaker 5: And when I talked to Tracy about she was like,
Speaker 5: do you know why we hired you?
Speaker 1: And I was like no.
Speaker 5: Apparently, when I came into the room for the producer session,
Speaker 5: I was flirting with their assistance, but I was so thin,
Speaker 5: I was so encaractered that I didn't notice. But they
Speaker 5: was cute, you know. I was giving them, you know,
Speaker 5: a little bit longer handshakes, like you know, what's up?
Speaker 1: You look? You know what I mean. I'm not even
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not even thinking about it.
Speaker 5: And I mean before I even said the words on
Speaker 5: the page, Tracy knew, like, this is our Tie, and
Speaker 5: she thought that Tie would be the hardest person to
Speaker 5: cast because she didn't see anybody with that same aesthetic
Speaker 5: in the industry.
Speaker 4: We had the conversation with Tone about his sex scenes,
Speaker 4: and often you could hear actors talk about their heterosexual
Speaker 4: sex scenes, right, and then we've heard male actors and
Speaker 4: their uncomfortability if they're heterosexual in real life and have
Speaker 4: to play out gay scenes, what.
Speaker 1: Is it like for you?
Speaker 4: And what are the conversations between you and women that
Speaker 4: may or may not be bisexual or or lesbian and
Speaker 4: having to do gay scenes and kiss, Like, what are
Speaker 4: those scenes.
Speaker 1: Like for you?
Speaker 4: I know they're comfortable for you, but what is the
Speaker 4: conversation well with the other person that's in the scene
Speaker 4: with you.
Speaker 1: It's interesting because I have.
Speaker 5: Yet to have a sex scene on screen with an
Speaker 5: actual queer person it's queer woman. Really, nobody that I've
Speaker 5: been intimate with on screen has been queer.
Speaker 1: What about when you were watching did you watch Black
Speaker 1: Mirror with Raa? Yes? That made me feel like, wow,
Speaker 1: you're not gay. It makes a difference. Even a white
Speaker 1: girl was a little more. It does make a little
Speaker 1: bit of a difference.
Speaker 5: And so for me, I always have the conversation of like, hey, like,
Speaker 5: let me know what makes you feel comfortable, let me
Speaker 5: know what doesn't make you feel comfortable. My interest is
Speaker 5: for this to be as authentic as possible, and so
Speaker 5: there are things that I would or would not do
Speaker 5: that Like, sometimes I watch queer sex scenes and I'm like,
Speaker 5: bro who did this?
Speaker 1: What are you doing? You know? I'm like where a
Speaker 1: strap beck didn't.
Speaker 3: Where we yet where you can maybe tell us like
Speaker 3: that you saw that's a popular scene where you're like
Speaker 3: this is fake as fun.
Speaker 1: No. But I was watching.
Speaker 5: The new generation L Word and I was like, there
Speaker 5: was a sex scene in there that I was like.
Speaker 1: Oh, okay, what made me feel like?
Speaker 3: I got to have so many conversations with myself when
Speaker 3: I was younger, yes, and.
Speaker 1: The new one fucked me up? What about it? And
Speaker 1: what was the scene?
Speaker 5: It was like she was I think she was going
Speaker 5: down on her something and it just wasn't It just
Speaker 5: didn't feel it didn't feel right, Like it was like, huh,
Speaker 5: I don't know if this necessarily like maybe it was
Speaker 5: too easy or maybe there was no other component right,
Speaker 5: and it just didn't feel like.
Speaker 1: It didn't feel like you know the thing.
Speaker 3: About that L word that felt real for me all
Speaker 3: the hands Like there were times where I would say
Speaker 3: I was having sex with somebody and people be like,
Speaker 3: you're not in sex sex, you're just doing this or
Speaker 3: if you're paying like, or if you're using your hands,
Speaker 3: and it would make me feel so invalidated. When I
Speaker 3: was younger, because I thought that really was sex for us.
Speaker 3: The L word was such a different viewpoint. Yes, just
Speaker 3: being able to see people call it car sex that
Speaker 3: had sex in a car with hands, Yes, it really
Speaker 3: changed it for me, just with how I presented, because
Speaker 3: I would want to do more and be like, oh,
Speaker 3: well now I need a strap just to say I fucked.
Speaker 4: No, no have Is there any scenes currently on TV
Speaker 4: where a strap has even been shown. I have advocated
Speaker 4: for the strap to be hanging up on the ball
Speaker 4: so many times they're like, so just tell me like
Speaker 4: the like the thought process behind it. The thought is
Speaker 4: that I used it and that when queer people see it,
Speaker 4: they're gonna be like, oh, okay, I'll see.
Speaker 1: What you did there.
Speaker 5: You know, it's it's a little bit of a level
Speaker 5: of recognition, even if you don't have to see me
Speaker 5: putting it on, you know, just that they bumping cheese, right.
Speaker 5: I enjoy that, But I'm not doing that all the
Speaker 5: time my days.
Speaker 2: In my closet, does your say on your headport?
Speaker 1: Where do you put it?
Speaker 5: I have a basket okay, yeah, I have a bag
Speaker 5: sizes same same.
Speaker 1: I just showed.
Speaker 2: I just showed my boyfriend one that I have, and
Speaker 2: he was like, it was King Noirs.
Speaker 1: He was like, no, okay, it was oh no, let me,
Speaker 1: let me tell you.
Speaker 4: I don't even know if I shared this on on
Speaker 4: a podcast yet.
Speaker 1: His parents live in Europe.
Speaker 4: So he just got me a refrigerator from my room
Speaker 4: because I live upstairs and downstairs and I'll be tired
Speaker 4: and lazy and don't want to go downstairs beet water.
Speaker 1: So he's showing his dad the little refrigerator.
Speaker 4: There was a dildo, a white glass and condoms on
Speaker 4: top of the fridge and he's he was like, oh wow,
Speaker 4: y'all were And so he had to tell me that
Speaker 4: his dad saw the fucking dildo on the goddamn motherfucking refrigerator.
Speaker 1: And it was funny. And I was gay gay. My
Speaker 1: mom saw everything. Girl was a little too much. There
Speaker 1: was a suction cup dildo I had that I would
Speaker 1: hang necklaces on. She was gay gay. I just have
Speaker 1: a man.
Speaker 3: Now I've been making jokes. Now I'm just half gay.
Speaker 3: So no, and I was gay, My mom was.
Speaker 2: She was almost so overwhelmed she used the dilto to
Speaker 2: hang necklaces on.
Speaker 3: It was just I had so many at that point
Speaker 3: it was just fun. So I stuck one on the wall.
Speaker 3: The necklace is there, and she came into my house
Speaker 3: and she said.
Speaker 1: You guys are balls to no balls.
Speaker 3: And I think the questions that she had were so
Speaker 3: interesting because she wanted to know so much how I
Speaker 3: wasn't missing anything, like I was dating women for most
Speaker 3: of my life, but only her. She was just like
Speaker 3: and I could tell my mom would have three little
Speaker 3: vod because he's sitting there sap. It was very difficult
Speaker 3: for me to talk about it with her. And I
Speaker 3: think it's because talking about men with a woman that's straight,
Speaker 3: it's easy.
Speaker 4: But like, oh, yet I have yet to talk to
Speaker 4: my mom about being with women, even though I be
Speaker 4: fucking women. And what's crazy is my experience with a
Speaker 4: strap is I've only been strapped once by a woman,
Speaker 4: my ex girlfriend when I lived in Miami, and bitch,
Speaker 4: I do this strapping only on men, so like, my.
Speaker 1: Oh, you know what I mean. So my experience with
Speaker 1: that is that.
Speaker 4: And I love that you, as an actress who can
Speaker 4: be so vocal for representation on screen, is able to
Speaker 4: try to at least advocate for these little subtleties of
Speaker 4: what our life really looks like in real life but
Speaker 4: also on the paper, because I think even when I'm
Speaker 4: seeing them acting it out, there's ways in which we
Speaker 4: talk women to women that's different than heterosexual relationships as well.
Speaker 1: So I just love that.
Speaker 4: I know we talked a lot about Harlem. But what
Speaker 4: was it like working with Tasha Smith?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 4: Yes, Tasha is great, Tasha is funny, and all of
Speaker 4: our aunties have been that for our whole lives.
Speaker 1: Yeah, how was that? You know?
Speaker 5: She came into the room, like, why y'all know we
Speaker 5: about to do this hairset scene.
Speaker 1: And she got her little wrong that she you know
Speaker 1: what I mean.
Speaker 5: But then you know, when we're in the back, she said,
Speaker 5: but you're gonna have to tell me, right, you know,
Speaker 5: you're gonna have to let me know. And so she
Speaker 5: went and she got over me, and I'm like, we
Speaker 5: ain't even get there yet. You know, we gotta you
Speaker 5: pull up the leg, you know, you gotta make sure
Speaker 5: the puzzle pieces work right so that it looks like,
Speaker 5: you know, we really going there, and maybe y'all slide down,
Speaker 5: you know, so I can get up in there. Because
Speaker 5: it's supposed to be like such a such.
Speaker 1: A beautiful experience.
Speaker 5: For her that she gets so emotionally overwhelmed that she
Speaker 5: has to leave. And so I'm like, we want I
Speaker 5: want also the audience to feel like, oh, I know
Speaker 5: what happened.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
Speaker 5: Even if we can't show everything, we have to do
Speaker 5: a little bit of the.
Speaker 2: New battling with her sexuality essentially, right, it's.
Speaker 5: Her battling with power really, like not wanting, not wanting
Speaker 5: to be vulnerable enough to like let a person see you,
Speaker 5: know when you have that good set you like who
Speaker 5: I just want to cry and hug you and keep
Speaker 5: you and all of this stuff. And I have to
Speaker 5: go because I don't know where to put these emotions.
Speaker 5: And so I think it's more about like the emotional
Speaker 5: arc of Marley always being the one who can put
Speaker 5: her energetic dick on the table, who can pay for
Speaker 5: whatever needs to be paid for.
Speaker 1: And now she's meeting this woman who is not only.
Speaker 5: Beautiful and smart and has her own funds, She's gonna
Speaker 5: fuck you Lood too.
Speaker 4: How do you how do you differentiate as a person
Speaker 4: from the characters you've played.
Speaker 5: I feel like ty Is. I feel like maybe both
Speaker 5: of the characters are lesbian. I don't know in the
Speaker 5: fire as a lesson. I'm gender fluid and sexually fluid.
Speaker 1: You know, I will dig.
Speaker 5: But but I think I think also there is a
Speaker 5: lack of emotional availability with Tie, Like there is a
Speaker 5: lot of family trauma there that just doesn't allow her
Speaker 5: to have the courage enough to go deep. And I'm
Speaker 5: a person like I lay it all out on the table,
Speaker 5: like I want you to know what you're getting into,
Speaker 5: so that you don't say, like, oh, well, I thought
Speaker 5: you don't show up with a representative basically.
Speaker 1: And some bitches want Ties. Are you from New York?
Speaker 1: I'm from Philly, Okay, cousin, you know Georgia, I'm.
Speaker 5: From Philly, But it is you know, it was giving
Speaker 5: that and the Philly you know they give that and so.
Speaker 1: But but I think also.
Speaker 5: Tie wants that type of like love and connection but
Speaker 5: also doesn't know how to get it because she's not
Speaker 5: living truthfully to her family. And that was a big thing,
Speaker 5: Like people in my family know, was it.
Speaker 4: Easy for you to express like being that you're gender
Speaker 4: fluid sexually fluid? Was that easier to quote unquote come
Speaker 4: out to your family about so?
Speaker 5: I so my mom she passed away in twenty nineteen.
Speaker 5: It was she was she was ready to go.
Speaker 1: But my mom was the.
Speaker 5: First hole I ever met space on it Jotty back Cooper.
Speaker 1: She was before the hot girls were popular. It was
Speaker 1: a hot girl sad just kind of I kind of know.
Speaker 1: Our children say, I love that.
Speaker 4: Probably first off we say we is hold reddit Harry
Speaker 4: around here. She's her mama said that she is a
Speaker 4: queen sucking dick like on our first live show.
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh no, this is verbating my conversation. I was
Speaker 3: in the car with my mom I might be recorded,
Speaker 3: and she was like, how's that saying. I was like,
Speaker 3: he said, it was the best he ever had. She
Speaker 3: literally hold my hand, not joking.
Speaker 1: I've told me this my whole life. I knew what happened.
Speaker 1: I knew it. I knew it.
Speaker 3: There was just no way I would look at you
Speaker 3: sometimes that I would say, they're gonna be I just knew.
Speaker 1: What did you see your mom?
Speaker 5: She six' three, always like between like one ninety and
Speaker 5: two thirty okay, and she always towered over men. I
Speaker 5: have seven brothers and sisters. We all have different dads
Speaker 5: except for two of us. I've seen my mom one
Speaker 5: a nigga out of the house. She'd be going toe
Speaker 5: to toe with niggas. Yes, I've seen my mom fight
Speaker 5: her best friend on a cop car what they called
Speaker 5: the cops to come get her.
Speaker 1: As she's like, I'm gonna beat your ass before they
Speaker 1: take me away.
Speaker 5: Like truly, my mom has been on cops Twiceelesion show,
Speaker 5: the television show where I Need You, this episode where
Speaker 5: she was she was her own like and so.
Speaker 1: So conversations about sex.
Speaker 5: And she also was a bartender and she was she
Speaker 5: worked at the door.
Speaker 1: Are you the queer sibling? Yes, okay, and so the
Speaker 1: only output not your brother, but she so so.
Speaker 5: She had her schedule was she would wake up at
Speaker 5: five pm, get herself ready, take her little lxative okay,
Speaker 5: go to the bar. She'd be back at like three
Speaker 5: o'clock in the morning. If the house wasn't clean, she'd
Speaker 5: wake us all up. She was a virgo.
Speaker 1: Even if we had school in.
Speaker 5: The morning, we'd be up cleaning the house until it
Speaker 5: was I'm to go to school. Truly, this woman was
Speaker 5: she was. But she'd be talking about sucking dick and
Speaker 5: all of this with my aunts and stuff and then
Speaker 5: my cousins. I love y'all my sister.
Speaker 4: Would you overhear the conversations or did she specifically come
Speaker 4: to you and your siblings with the conversation about the bird?
Speaker 1: We weren't having birds and the bees conversations.
Speaker 5: It was like you just got to sit there and
Speaker 5: be quiet, and they talking about what they talking about.
Speaker 1: But it was no separation, you know, like go upstairs
Speaker 1: because we're about to talk about adult conversations. No, and
Speaker 1: and and when she got.
Speaker 5: An Instagram page, her Instagram page was milky with two
Speaker 5: eyes okay, and she would post.
Speaker 1: Like, you know the best dick suckers are this just
Speaker 1: that knowledge?
Speaker 5: God, I'm thirty.
Speaker 3: So you were the Oh my gosh, okay, well I'm
Speaker 3: thirty four, so those media I'm thinking the same age.
Speaker 3: I'm just trying to think about my mama post like, yeah,
Speaker 3: you know it was me ig videos tagging the people.
Speaker 3: My mom will comment on a bitch, just thing like look.
Speaker 1: Like just crazy.
Speaker 2: You were in high school, you had to see.
Speaker 1: I was so embarrassed when I was in high school.
Speaker 5: I was so I never wanted anybody to come to
Speaker 5: my house because my mom sometimes she only have a
Speaker 5: bra on.
Speaker 1: Sometimes she'll take her wig off.
Speaker 5: And put it on her knee and put her She
Speaker 5: had a towel on one knee, right, she had take
Speaker 5: the wig off, put it on her knee, put the towel.
Speaker 5: She got too hot on her head. Her hair was
Speaker 5: cut like mine. She would die her hair.
Speaker 1: The same color.
Speaker 5: No way, I'll say in my mind, yeah, what color
Speaker 5: if it was? She had red, whatever her hair was,
Speaker 5: I swear to God, this scotti.
Speaker 1: What is it again? He said? What? John?
Speaker 5: Oh?
Speaker 1: Miss John? She an't feel like some ship.
Speaker 5: And I love and now I see like the audacity
Speaker 5: that I have comes from my mom. But there was
Speaker 5: a time where I was like, oh my gosh, Like
Speaker 5: you can't say that in front of people.
Speaker 1: You can't. She said, what in this movie? She wanted
Speaker 1: the one sinner than this. We have a movie on
Speaker 1: your mom. Need to be a character in one of
Speaker 1: these things.
Speaker 3: I'd like to ask you about coming out stories, because
Speaker 3: I feel like I have friends that are gay for real,
Speaker 3: and a lot of.
Speaker 1: This shit that we see on TV.
Speaker 3: It's just like I'm confused, I don't know, and it's
Speaker 3: like the same troupe.
Speaker 1: Are you kind of tired of it?
Speaker 3: Are you kind of tired of feeling like queer storylines
Speaker 3: have to come with the coming out story.
Speaker 1: Why is it always a part of the character.
Speaker 5: Yes, That's what drew me to Tie was that it
Speaker 5: wasn't like, oh my god, like I'm so embarrassed about
Speaker 5: being gay, or like I have to come out to
Speaker 5: my friends and like I can't have straight friends because
Speaker 5: they're gonna think I want them. It's not that or
Speaker 5: it's like the gay character in the friend group is
Speaker 5: always questioning and confused and an artist and don't have
Speaker 5: no money. It's like all of like if you're confused
Speaker 5: about you can't write, you can't also have like a
Speaker 5: business or job. It's like it also comes with some
Speaker 5: sort of like aloofness because I don't know if I
Speaker 5: want men or women or whatever. I'm just like living
Speaker 5: my life. And I do think that there is some
Speaker 5: some openness, like when you're an artist, like you're more
Speaker 5: open to different things. But it's not always that. Like
Speaker 5: I feel like sometimes people are people's parents just know
Speaker 5: that their kids are gay and they don't actually have
Speaker 5: to come out, you know.
Speaker 3: What about like even in this moment, like you do
Speaker 3: an interview and it's the question, how often do you
Speaker 3: feel like you're talking about this story over and over
Speaker 3: to where it kind of like just muddles who you are.
Speaker 5: I feel like I come out more as Polly than
Speaker 5: coming out as queer.
Speaker 1: Oh that's okay.
Speaker 4: I think that's a thing, like right now you are like,
Speaker 4: But I mean when I was in college, I had
Speaker 4: a boyfriend who was a Leo and we were.
Speaker 2: Doing these signs girl my mama who was a virgo
Speaker 2: because they.
Speaker 1: Was Leo. Yes, it matters, what's your sign? I'm an Aquarius?
Speaker 5: Oh February January Okay, very compatible, right, But we were
Speaker 5: watching porn and we were watching lesbian porn and I
Speaker 5: was so turned on and he was like, you like women,
Speaker 5: and so we started dating women together.
Speaker 1: And this was me at eighteen, nineteen years old.
Speaker 4: You introduced it because he was comfortable with that? Or
Speaker 4: did you have to have did they have to join
Speaker 4: y'all in the bedroom? Was he able to go out?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 4: What was the dynamic at eighteen entering your relationship Polly
Speaker 4: with a man with other women?
Speaker 1: What did that look like?
Speaker 5: It was most of the time we had we had
Speaker 5: sex with women together, but it wasn't like it wasn't
Speaker 5: closed to that, Like, Okay, if he as long as
Speaker 5: he told me you know exactly what it was. Like,
Speaker 5: I'm a truth person, like I can tell when somebody's
Speaker 5: lying to me. So as long as you're fully honest
Speaker 5: with me, I don't care, as long as you're being safe,
Speaker 5: like it is what it is. But most of the
Speaker 5: time we were having sex with women together.
Speaker 1: And then I was like, how many years did that last?
Speaker 1: We were together for like four years? Oh well maybe
Speaker 1: like a soft five, so you're again yes, yes, and
Speaker 1: he was.
Speaker 5: So it was such a like deep understanding there that
Speaker 5: I felt safe enough to like do what I needed.
Speaker 5: There wasn't any judgment, and he was curious about it too,
Speaker 5: like he wanted me to talk about it with him.
Speaker 1: And there was he older or same age, he was
Speaker 1: the same age.
Speaker 3: Wow, what about that relationship brought around the biggest lesson
Speaker 3: because now we know so much about open relationships, But
Speaker 3: what about that particular relationship kind of taught you something
Speaker 3: that you even used today, was.
Speaker 1: That it's possible.
Speaker 5: Like I have like been with monogamous people who like
Speaker 5: wanted to try polly with me. I've dated people who
Speaker 5: are like, you're just you're just Polly because you want
Speaker 5: this this and this and you want to have and
Speaker 5: if you want to just like okay, sure, but also,
Speaker 5: like I saying talking about astrology, like truly it is
Speaker 5: in my chart, like multiple partnerships is like in my chart.
Speaker 5: And so for for to do that with him where
Speaker 5: it was safe, where he was kind of like sometimes
Speaker 5: he was my wingman, like he knew that I didn't
Speaker 5: know if women would be attracted.
Speaker 1: To me right back.
Speaker 5: And I know, I know you know I am a
Speaker 5: I am a siren, but I knew I know how
Speaker 5: the siren for men.
Speaker 1: He's talking about what a siren is for people who
Speaker 1: don't know. It's like it's like little Mermaid kind of say.
Speaker 5: I was just in San Diego and my friend Lamar
Speaker 5: is like, Jerry, you have a siren song. It's like
Speaker 5: the silent thing that you do that just draws people
Speaker 5: to you. And I know that that siren works for men.
Speaker 3: But how do you know the difference between your siren
Speaker 3: energy versus just having an extrovertic energy being somebody that
Speaker 3: people want to be around. How do you know it's
Speaker 3: that because it's see it, But I'm just asking.
Speaker 5: It's so I was on the plane coming back from
Speaker 5: San Diego and I'm like in my headphones and this
Speaker 5: man stops and he's like, oh.
Speaker 1: My god, I am gay, but I want to be
Speaker 1: with you.
Speaker 5: What is I didn't say nothing to him, I didn't
Speaker 5: do it. I didn't even look at him. But there
Speaker 5: is something about me that calls people in and a
Speaker 5: lot of times it's like it is a big responsibility
Speaker 5: because it can be used in a lot of different ways.
Speaker 5: And I am a deep impath and I care about
Speaker 5: care for people.
Speaker 1: I care about people's feelings.
Speaker 5: I care about people's well being, and I have a
Speaker 5: hyper sensitivity to being used and using people, which sometimes
Speaker 5: is like this double edged sword because then there are
Speaker 5: things that I might not accept because I don't want
Speaker 5: to deal with the whatever might come with the thing
Speaker 5: that is being offered to me. And so because of that,
Speaker 5: I'm like, I'm really aware of people's feelings and how
Speaker 5: I come off to people. But that situation, I wasn't
Speaker 5: even like, I'm like, I'm kind of drunk off these
Speaker 5: beers I had, you know what I mean, I'm not
Speaker 5: thinking about nothing, and this man just like you know,
Speaker 5: And so for me, it's it's an intuitive thing, but
Speaker 5: it's also this thing that happens without like I'm not
Speaker 5: putting it on right.
Speaker 1: It's not just like, oh my god, you're a nice
Speaker 1: person to be around.
Speaker 5: No, you have impacted my life and I'm gonna be
Speaker 5: thinking about you forever when if you.
Speaker 4: Start getting comfortable. Then with realizing that same power work
Speaker 4: for women through.
Speaker 5: My relationship with him, I was like I started to
Speaker 5: like really see, like, oh he's right, like women do
Speaker 5: like right. And but then when I moved to San Francisco,
Speaker 5: I was to say, oh, you were in.
Speaker 1: The back the Bay area.
Speaker 5: I mean, they were talking about all this shit before
Speaker 5: anybody was, when it was not popular. It was like, hello,
Speaker 5: my name is and my pronouns are this this? Yes,
Speaker 5: I'm a poly nominogami all of life.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just.
Speaker 5: And so to be in a to live in a
Speaker 5: bay for four years while I was in grad school
Speaker 5: really opened me up. And so I remember telling my
Speaker 5: friend like, I want to be a hoe and he
Speaker 5: was like, but you too nice.
Speaker 1: You can't you.
Speaker 5: Said to me, not not that, but this is what
Speaker 5: he said. He said, It's like I can't. I just
Speaker 5: I was I was a little back footed. You say, friend,
Speaker 5: I want to be a hoe?
Speaker 4: What did that look like to you because we've had
Speaker 4: that debate tail as long as time, like since we
Speaker 4: had horrible decisions.
Speaker 1: Huh, what's the hell do you? What's like? What did
Speaker 1: a home that meant?
Speaker 5: Any sexual instinct or impulse that I had in any moment.
Speaker 3: I was going to follow through with, Oh do you
Speaker 3: think you had phases of your life where even in
Speaker 3: the pursuit of hodem you felt a little guilty.
Speaker 1: No, never felt shame. It never happened.
Speaker 5: Well, yes, yes, because what I realized that then through
Speaker 5: that relationship that I had for four years, although it
Speaker 5: was so open in terms of being with women, I
Speaker 5: was his barbie, like I was his princess, Like I
Speaker 5: was the girl who hadn't had sex with a lot
Speaker 5: of people, and I was like, holy his So then
Speaker 5: when the so for me for women, like, I'm like,
Speaker 5: you know, I feel the freedom freedom there, but with
Speaker 5: when I would have sex with men. I remember this
Speaker 5: one guy I had sex with him and then afterwards
Speaker 5: I was like.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, why did I do? Like I was
Speaker 1: so hard? What made what made you do? You know?
Speaker 1: What triggered that?
Speaker 5: Really it was the like the shame of like what
Speaker 5: happens when you've been with X amount of men?
Speaker 1: Or what does it mean to be with a man?
Speaker 5: Or like what the the things that can happen when
Speaker 5: you are with men?
Speaker 1: Like a lot of that started to come up.
Speaker 5: And so then when I was like, when I was like,
Speaker 5: I want to be a hoe, which is really just
Speaker 5: like me living in my truth and my freedom, I
Speaker 5: had to dismantle all of the ideas I had about
Speaker 5: what it would look like for me me or it
Speaker 5: would make me to have.
Speaker 1: Sex freely with men? Oh wow. And when I tell you,
Speaker 1: I remember being at this meeting with this.
Speaker 5: Girl at this bar and this man was just giving
Speaker 5: me these blueberry drinks, and so I'm looking at him
Speaker 5: and I'm like, oh, I'm i to fuck this bartender now.
Speaker 1: Mind you.
Speaker 5: The bar is kind of like it's kind of like
Speaker 5: an afternoon in the bay, not that many people, and
Speaker 5: so PM and.
Speaker 1: I'm looking on the blueberry. He just kept talking.
Speaker 5: The way he was saying blueberry to me, I was like,
Speaker 5: he's trying to fuck blueberry.
Speaker 1: You want it?
Speaker 5: So then I was like, can you tell me where
Speaker 5: the bathroom is? And so he was like always downstairs
Speaker 5: on this side of the So then I'm in the bathroom.
Speaker 5: I'm like, Okay, how can I get this nigga down
Speaker 5: here so we can fuck right now in the middle
Speaker 5: of this meeting.
Speaker 1: This girl don't even know. So then I was like,
Speaker 1: this is shit. I said, don't care.
Speaker 5: I said, sorry, there's no tissue down there. He said,
Speaker 5: oh really, let me come show you. Then we went
Speaker 5: down there and we fucked in the freezer.
Speaker 1: Bab you are yeah, we did.
Speaker 5: We did and there was no And then I went
Speaker 5: back upstairs and had the meeting.
Speaker 1: I lived for the period.
Speaker 5: I said, Oh, okay, Jerry, Jerry, when is your book
Speaker 5: coming out?
Speaker 4: I need the whole hold them, your entire twenties, bringing
Speaker 4: it to a motherfucking erotica bus.
Speaker 1: You have me a fucking chapter in that.
Speaker 3: You know, I really am curious about being someone that
Speaker 3: is I wouldn't even say lesbian presented just on your page,
Speaker 3: your girl, the shows we're seeing you in now. When
Speaker 3: you have sex with men, do you find that they're
Speaker 3: almost a little insecure?
Speaker 1: Do they have this conquering attitude? Do you enjoy that?
Speaker 1: What is it about the male dynamics sexually that kind
Speaker 1: of gets you?
Speaker 5: I think men are so infatuated with me they're so
Speaker 5: curious about me.
Speaker 1: But what I find is when.
Speaker 5: I'm just trying to fuck a nigga.
Speaker 1: They want so much more.
Speaker 5: And I have friends, but what that And it's like,
Speaker 5: oh no, well let's do this this first, in this first,
Speaker 5: and this first.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm trying to get some you want to do.
Speaker 4: But reverse psychology, ladies, if you treat a man like
Speaker 4: a piece of motherfucking meat days, he will literally pour
Speaker 4: his soul out of insecurities, like that's all you want.
Speaker 1: You only want me for my dick. This is what
Speaker 1: I learned. Bro. They will literally be like, but I
Speaker 1: have more for you.
Speaker 5: Yes, it's not also offering everything, but I find so
Speaker 5: so I feel like sometimes like either American men, either
Speaker 5: American men want to play like this sort of like game,
Speaker 5: this game of mouse, or it's like the Caribbean or
Speaker 5: the African American men who are like, you need to
Speaker 5: be my wife.
Speaker 1: But then I went to Europe. Ship I was fucking
Speaker 1: the Europe. They're a little bit more out of Europe peeing.
Speaker 5: I don't know what said I.
Speaker 1: I didn't even know that's what I went to Europe
Speaker 1: to do.
Speaker 5: You know, I was just trying to mind my bigga's all, y'all.
Speaker 1: Want to go to get them Hungarian men?
Speaker 4: Okay, they they hungry for the pussy, do you understand?
Speaker 5: And they felt a little bit more like, oh, we
Speaker 5: can have our intimate moments and that just be it,
Speaker 5: Like you're not calling my phone a million times, but
Speaker 5: you know what.
Speaker 1: You like like my encounters.
Speaker 3: I have always been the little year travel girl, and
Speaker 3: I will tell you they're just more passionate people where
Speaker 3: we have more of a tie to, like intimacy and chemistry.
Speaker 3: Like I've had conversations with friends about kissing and how
Speaker 3: you know, maybe one of my home girls like, oh,
Speaker 3: I don't know, I kind of want to just get
Speaker 3: some dick.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I feel like I might need to like this nigga, bro,
Speaker 3: I can be in love with a nigga in an
Speaker 3: hour in Italy.
Speaker 5: Yes, in Berlin, I was at Burghon y'all. Yeah, did
Speaker 5: I go to bay I went to the club here.
Speaker 1: No, I don't know about the stuff here.
Speaker 5: I would love to though after we should we should
Speaker 5: talk about it. But I was that and it was
Speaker 5: like the tension between it was like we were we
Speaker 5: knew that we were gonna do this thing, but we
Speaker 5: also didn't know, and it felt like more of a
Speaker 5: vamping up to the to the act as opposed to transaction,
Speaker 5: which I think like sometimes in America it can be
Speaker 5: about the transaction.
Speaker 1: Like I'm a very passionate person.
Speaker 5: I feel like my erotic is attached to and connected
Speaker 5: to my creativity, and so like I like sex to
Speaker 5: be created fun, to get this roll off, I feel
Speaker 5: like attached.
Speaker 1: I don't know if I can perform no, no, no, not
Speaker 1: that it's contingent upon it.
Speaker 5: But I do think that sex is a creative act
Speaker 5: for me that like, I'm not just like gonna be like,
Speaker 5: oh yeah, let's get it. I it's gonna be incredible,
Speaker 5: like you really like they said on hotels, you're gonna
Speaker 5: remember these.
Speaker 1: Pussy you understand.
Speaker 5: But I like that type of passion, and I feel
Speaker 5: like in Europe it just felt more like they were
Speaker 5: down to have that like that, not that rendezvous for
Speaker 5: a night that's really passionate and sweet.
Speaker 1: And sexy, and it doesn't feel like exploitati weirdness with intimacy.
Speaker 3: Think about even children, nudity, nude beaches, sexual American Yeah.
Speaker 1: We have such when you were.
Speaker 5: When you were in high school and you said, like
Speaker 5: I got a condom, people were like, oh my god,
Speaker 5: why have a you know, but in Europe, like it's
Speaker 5: like people you would have to carry. It was almost
Speaker 5: like shame because you having a condom meant that you
Speaker 5: were promiscuous. But it's like, but if I have sex
Speaker 5: and I don't have this condom. But that's the American
Speaker 5: conditioning as opposed to in Europe. It's like people are
Speaker 5: having sex. More people in America lose their virginity in
Speaker 5: cars than anywhere else, because where else are you gonna
Speaker 5: go if you don't talk about sex with your family
Speaker 5: in Texas, so taboo.
Speaker 4: You're right, you're not in your house. You asked Jeeves
Speaker 4: that I mean, actually, my mama was at work.
Speaker 1: I was writing this nigga hair. It was at the house.
Speaker 1: But you know, the little I think I remember, I
Speaker 1: was an how.
Speaker 5: A woman studies major in college, and we talked about
Speaker 5: this kind of stuff. We talked about how it's like
Speaker 5: even just like.
Speaker 1: The weird shit you going on in America.
Speaker 5: It's like because we're having conversations because parents in Europe
Speaker 5: are like, oh okay, it's Cindy coming over. Okay, you
Speaker 5: guys can go upstairs, We'll leave you alone, and so
Speaker 5: then it's a safer experience because everybody knows what's going on.
Speaker 5: We're not sneaking. If something happens, there are witnesses to know.
Speaker 4: Like also just being that in the Western world were
Speaker 4: based off Christian views and so we even just went
Speaker 4: through a on an episode we talked about the history
Speaker 4: of sexual norms through age and it's really interesting to
Speaker 4: know that a lot of our views now actually stem
Speaker 4: from the feminist movement and us getting our autonomy back
Speaker 4: and really letting these niggas know they weird out you weird.
Speaker 4: I do want to get into our reactionary because I
Speaker 4: want to talk about your relationship just a little bit.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna play this clip and then we'll go from there.
Speaker 2: I want to know if you agree or disagree.
Speaker 6: At the age of fifty four and two divorces later,
Speaker 6: let me give you the marriage advice I wish that
Speaker 6: I had listened to. Love is not enough. Married for character,
Speaker 6: not just chemistry.
Speaker 1: You're not just.
Speaker 6: Marrying them, You're marrying their habits, their debt, and their
Speaker 6: family drama. Marriage will never fix loneliness. The wrong person
Speaker 6: will make it worse, you can't marry potential. You're not
Speaker 6: a life coach. Your spouse. Being alone is way better
Speaker 6: than wishing you were. The right person will make you
Speaker 6: feel safe. The wrong one will make you feel small.
Speaker 6: We'll figure it out. It's not a financial plan. Some
Speaker 6: people don't want love, they want control. Learn the difference.
Speaker 6: You should be excited to marry them, not just relieve
Speaker 6: that they finally committed. Be prepared to marry the whole
Speaker 6: family period.
Speaker 4: Did you agree with her sentiments? And then the follow
Speaker 4: up would be what lets you know that your fiance
Speaker 4: was the one I agree?
Speaker 5: I think I was dating my fiance and I was
Speaker 5: also dating somebody else and the.
Speaker 1: Other person met. They ain't get to ring right and
Speaker 1: we had we we it was a it was a
Speaker 1: great thing going. They planned my twenty birthday together. It
Speaker 1: was literally the other woman and.
Speaker 5: She wasn't my fiance at the time, but yeslfriend, I
Speaker 5: was dating both of them. They were not dating, okay,
Speaker 5: but my girlfriends at the time planning my birthday.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm a person where I'm like everybody got.
Speaker 5: To meet everybody, so that you don't you're not asking me, well,
Speaker 5: what it's not there's no I think sometimes like the
Speaker 5: mystery of like who this other person is is more
Speaker 5: daunting than the reality of like what this And y'all
Speaker 5: don't like to amplify or throw salt on anybody's like insecurities,
Speaker 5: Like let's just all know what's going on. Y'all have
Speaker 5: each other's number, y'all want to compare notes with each other,
Speaker 5: y'all could do what y'all want to do, you know
Speaker 5: what I mean, so that I am.
Speaker 1: Not the centerpiece of this of this thing.
Speaker 5: And then the relationship with that that person.
Speaker 1: Didn't work out, and then I.
Speaker 5: Was like, okay, and I think the relationship with my
Speaker 5: fiance the time kind of got.
Speaker 1: A little uh it was it was a little interesting.
Speaker 5: I didn't feel like I felt like we were like
Speaker 5: butting up against each other, and I couldn't understand that
Speaker 5: because we were so we just like had fun together, right,
Speaker 5: And so I was like, Okay, I don't think that
Speaker 5: this is working for me. So I kind of just
Speaker 5: like took a took a moment, and then I was
Speaker 5: child might even wanna say that anyway. Anyway, I started
Speaker 5: I started getting these messages that I needed to like
Speaker 5: reconnect with with her like that this is my person
Speaker 5: and I'm but when I.
Speaker 7: Met mess yes, like like like like I would be
Speaker 7: on a plane and I'm behind, uh this couple and
Speaker 7: we're having a good time.
Speaker 1: I'm like, what's your signs?
Speaker 5: Because I am into science and it's like an Aquarius
Speaker 5: and a libre and that's our signs, or it's like
Speaker 5: six sixty six that means that like you're gonna rekindle
Speaker 5: with an old flame, or me getting a reading months
Speaker 5: ahead saying whoever you're going to be with on this
Speaker 5: date is going to be the person that you're going
Speaker 5: to be with happened. So like the at twelve am
Speaker 5: on that day, I went to a concert that she
Speaker 5: also was at, and then we decided to get dinner
Speaker 5: to dad together, so that it was just like all
Speaker 5: of these things. And so I was like, hey, like
Speaker 5: I'm coming back to I had gone to Dominican Republic,
Speaker 5: twisted my ankle, and I was like, I'm coming back
Speaker 5: to New York.
Speaker 1: I would love to talk to you, and so she
Speaker 1: was like okay.
Speaker 5: So we sat down and we had a conversation and
Speaker 5: the thing that she said is like I want to
Speaker 5: be best friends this time, Like no, matter what we do, Like,
Speaker 5: I want to be friends.
Speaker 4: And I was like, okay, did you believe that that
Speaker 4: was possible to go from a romantic relationship to just
Speaker 4: a platonic one.
Speaker 1: But it didn't mean platonic. I don't think.
Speaker 5: I don't think she wanted it platonic. She wanted she
Speaker 5: wanted the friendship to be the most important thing, because
Speaker 5: I think sometimes we miss our partners, we miss connections,
Speaker 5: we miss communication when we aren't friends. It's like, that's
Speaker 5: not your friend, and so you don't you don't even
Speaker 5: understand me on a baseline because I'm not your friend.
Speaker 1: I'm just your partner, and.
Speaker 5: So for us, she was like, okay, I said, let's I'm.
Speaker 1: Down with that.
Speaker 5: And we've literally been inseparable ever since. That is truly
Speaker 5: my best friend. Wherever I'm at, I'm like, I want
Speaker 5: to share information with her.
Speaker 1: I'm like going to Evinsa.
Speaker 5: I don't really want to go to because she's gonna
Speaker 5: be there, and we live together, Like, but.
Speaker 1: I just love hanging out with her. I can talk
Speaker 1: to her all night.
Speaker 5: We can like go on these walks we don't know
Speaker 5: where the hell we going, and we just laughing and
Speaker 5: joking and there's been like some some moments where it's
Speaker 5: been difficult to like figure out, like, Okay, how do
Speaker 5: we because a lot of our.
Speaker 1: Our pain pressure points were the same, and so it
Speaker 1: was like.
Speaker 5: We would be at these standstills and it's like, okay,
Speaker 5: why are we we don't Like we'll have like every
Speaker 5: three months, we'll have like one big argument and it's
Speaker 5: like what is this? And so we started going to
Speaker 5: therapy and all of that to like truly get to understanding.
Speaker 1: But it'll be like, you, how many years have you
Speaker 1: been dating her? Three years?
Speaker 3: Did you feel like therapy early on or just let's
Speaker 3: just say a year, a year and a half, it's
Speaker 3: too early.
Speaker 5: I don't think therapy is I think if you feel
Speaker 5: like I think a relationship is an investment. It's an
Speaker 5: investment of time, it's an investment of money. And so
Speaker 5: you're not just gonna invest in the stock that you
Speaker 5: don't know nothing about, right, or invest in the stock
Speaker 5: that you might get some opinions from other people and
Speaker 5: all of that, right, And I think that relationships are
Speaker 5: the same, and so sometimes you just need to be witnessed.
Speaker 1: It's not about like.
Speaker 3: Because people would say the argument on the other side is, well,
Speaker 3: if you're thinking about therapy so early, this can't be good.
Speaker 3: And really what I'm hearing from you is like, Okay,
Speaker 3: we're going good, this is happening, let's fix it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like not letting your.
Speaker 5: Not letting the the one thing, one thing be the
Speaker 5: thing that like we can't see eyed eye on And
Speaker 5: it wasn't. I mean we had we had gone maybe
Speaker 5: two years at first of just like trying to figure
Speaker 5: it out ourselves, and we realized like, oh, we need
Speaker 5: somebody to see what's happening and to say, oh uh uh, Dria,
Speaker 5: that's actually just this trauma, Jerry, you need to be
Speaker 5: more considerate about this or this, And that shift for me,
Speaker 5: because I'm an intellectual, the shift for me of that.
Speaker 1: Is like, oh I can do that. I can I don't.
Speaker 5: I don't mind making concessions, but it has it has
Speaker 5: to make sense to me.
Speaker 4: But sometimes we also just don't have the right tools
Speaker 4: to figure out right from either not seeing healthy relationships
Speaker 4: and not even being able sometimes to hold up the
Speaker 4: mirror and get ourselves out of our own way sometimes right.
Speaker 4: And so I'm glad that you guys just do that.
Speaker 4: So after therapy and being together. What was the Aha,
Speaker 4: I gotta put a ring on it.
Speaker 5: I actually put a ring on it before we were
Speaker 5: going to therapy.
Speaker 1: But I did this rooms into loom and I was
Speaker 1: in the loon. I was like walking down the beach.
Speaker 1: Did you even have the ring?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 1: Oh, oh we did.
Speaker 5: We found this ring upstate at this Ventus shop and
Speaker 5: we bought this ring.
Speaker 1: But it wasn't like it was like in.
Speaker 5: Case it happens like this is the We didn't want
Speaker 5: to pass up on the opportunity of getting this ring.
Speaker 1: It was a beautiful ring and we both loved it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this ring.
Speaker 3: You didn't buy an adventure shop in Touloum, because I
Speaker 3: ain't never seen one. No, you bought it in New York, upstate. Okay,
Speaker 3: you buy this ring and a dventuge shop that it's
Speaker 3: on her ring finger perfectly just in case we get married?
Speaker 5: Who was it not just in case we get We
Speaker 5: didn't even talk about it, like we just kind of
Speaker 5: like she tried the ring on her ring finger and
Speaker 5: then I bought it, and then I had it like
Speaker 5: talking about it.
Speaker 1: Which was interesting.
Speaker 5: Because we're talking about yes, And then I would do
Speaker 5: this funny thing when she would say something smart.
Speaker 1: I mean, we get we just do stuff with each other.
Speaker 5: But when she would say something smart or something, I
Speaker 5: would do this because the ring was in this pocket.
Speaker 1: You better watch out, bro bro. She was just crack up.
Speaker 1: That's what this little energy is what makes me feel like.
Speaker 3: You know, my man and I've been dating two years
Speaker 3: and we just talk very deeply about exactly what we want,
Speaker 3: marriage planning, whatever. So I feel like when we get
Speaker 3: to that stage sometimes you're like, oh, when right. Sometimes
Speaker 3: I'll be doing shit where I'll be sucking up, like
Speaker 3: let's just say, my brokente will make me act crazy.
Speaker 3: You'd be looking at me like and you think I
Speaker 3: can't go back back.
Speaker 1: Right on the line. And it's scary because when you
Speaker 1: are in these moments.
Speaker 3: You just made me think something about therapy. We were
Speaker 3: having a conversation the other day where he was like,
Speaker 3: sometimes I wish you could hear yourself from someone else's
Speaker 3: Like if.
Speaker 1: You don't see it with our when our brother says it.
Speaker 5: It's like absolutely not, no, no, no, And it's like, no,
Speaker 5: you need somebody else to hear you and let them
Speaker 5: tell you because you're not gonna hear it from me.
Speaker 5: And it's also like with all of our endoor friends
Speaker 5: and the loved thing, and it's like I want to,
Speaker 5: I want to. I want to seem perfect to you.
Speaker 5: So when when you say, when you give me these
Speaker 5: notes or this feedback that I can't see, it's hard
Speaker 5: to contend with from your partner, right, It's hard to
Speaker 5: be seen in that way.
Speaker 3: And so it is nice to be with where most
Speaker 3: of your arguments surrounding open relationship things.
Speaker 1: No, we had a few of that.
Speaker 5: No, it just we had a There was a It
Speaker 5: was a sticky situation because she felt like, like, I
Speaker 5: get why you're ethically non monogamous.
Speaker 1: It makes sense on.
Speaker 5: Paper, and it makes sense why I could be. I
Speaker 5: just am contending with like am I or not? Did
Speaker 5: you did you give her? I gave her my work, Shet,
Speaker 5: my ethical non monogamy framework works. Y'all know, this is
Speaker 5: this is this is where, this is why Hey, y'all
Speaker 5: She has it in a Google doc in the Google drive.
Speaker 1: On her phone.
Speaker 4: Yes, I would love Could you pull up yes, the
Speaker 4: ethical nominogamy contract. Yes, and if we could go through, yes,
Speaker 4: the points and mind you real quick. This is something
Speaker 4: that when you meet a partner, you get to them
Speaker 4: yes on the first date.
Speaker 1: Well, when it's getting it's when it's getting there.
Speaker 5: Because what I found was I was going on dates
Speaker 5: with women who has so many preconceived notions about polyamory
Speaker 5: that I was saying the same thing on a cycle.
Speaker 5: I'm like, why why do I Why am I keep
Speaker 5: like proving this or like I'm like handing out the
Speaker 5: facts or something. So when you got questions about it,
Speaker 5: if you say, if you say, well, I think people
Speaker 5: who are poly are this, and I think that, here
Speaker 5: goes my Ethical.
Speaker 1: Nominogamy Framework worksheet.
Speaker 5: Here is why I am Polly, and this is my
Speaker 5: burglar morning verbal Rising. Here's why I am Polly. If
Speaker 5: you can get down with this, we can do this.
Speaker 5: But you know the baseline of what you're coming in too,
Speaker 5: so there's no assumptions or preconceived notions or any of that.
Speaker 1: September No, I'm not a virgal. I'm a virgal Moon
Speaker 1: and Rising. Oh my god.
Speaker 2: That's because y'all even know the Okay, so what is
Speaker 2: your framework?
Speaker 1: What what does it read on that document?
Speaker 5: So it says why, it says Jerry's CNM he NM
Speaker 5: poly framework. It says as an intellectual processor, it's helpful
Speaker 5: for me to write things out to process, understand, and
Speaker 5: express my ideas and feelings. The first one why. Firstly,
Speaker 5: I like to start by saying that I am polyamorous
Speaker 5: by orientation, meaning that it is directly correlated with who
Speaker 5: I am and how I move through the world. It
Speaker 5: is also connected to my need to decolonize my body, thoughts,
Speaker 5: and ways of being.
Speaker 1: For me, ethical.
Speaker 5: Nominogamy or polyamory is directly dismantling the patriarchy, queerness, and
Speaker 5: white supremacy are direct opposites in how they function in
Speaker 5: my life. This supports my desire for expansion in this lifetime.
Speaker 5: Having multiple intimate, romantic, and loving relationships helps me to
Speaker 5: sharpen my communication skills, learn and address where my blind
Speaker 5: spots are, and pushes my capacity for compassion, empathy.
Speaker 1: And love.
Speaker 5: Love in many forms is the perfect definition for me.
Speaker 5: Love is abundant in my life and in conjunction and
Speaker 5: conversation with the universe. My being non monogamous is a
Speaker 5: continuing conversation with myself, how I spread love and intimate
Speaker 5: relationships and the freedom that.
Speaker 1: Comes without the compound right.
Speaker 5: Any Western ideals of monogamy and heteronormativity. Also, the word
Speaker 5: intimate is mostly faceted because it is.
Speaker 1: Not limited to sex.
Speaker 5: I think sex is just a minuscule part of intimacy,
Speaker 5: and because people limit intimacy to those that are sexually
Speaker 5: involved with it stunts the expansion of how we can
Speaker 5: connect and expressed ourselves as humans. I just want to
Speaker 5: feel free in my expression of love outside of any
Speaker 5: binary including the ones we've learned, because all this is
Speaker 5: what we learned about how we should exist in relationships.
Speaker 5: I also know that how I show up in the
Speaker 5: world in all of my identities with that elevated expression
Speaker 5: of love.
Speaker 1: Is a radical act. It is what I call liberation. Honey,
Speaker 1: if I wasn't a theater kid right there to.
Speaker 4: Hold you ed And I'm gonna need the transcript for
Speaker 4: this episode so I can copy and paste. Gonna need
Speaker 4: different So have you ever given this worksheet to someone
Speaker 4: and they've been like, oh, yeah, this isn't for me.
Speaker 1: No, people want to be with me.
Speaker 3: You know how it would be a no for me
Speaker 3: because there's a lot of discussion about the act of
Speaker 3: love needing to be spread. Decolonization to me of the
Speaker 3: body sometimes is sexual freedom not necessarily love, and I
Speaker 3: think I would probably have issues with jealousy knowing that
Speaker 3: more love needed to be shared.
Speaker 1: But also me sharing me share, me loving somebody.
Speaker 3: And I'm ethically nonmnogapists by the way my partner and
Speaker 3: our data the people and together, but the love aspect
Speaker 3: makes me sometimes and again just boundary for me, feel
Speaker 3: like I'm putting myself at.
Speaker 5: Risk, right, because there's also I think I think polyamory
Speaker 5: is an umbrella, right, and so you are in an
Speaker 5: open relationship, right, And in open relationships, different partners might
Speaker 5: need different things right, And usually sometimes like the Olive conversation,
Speaker 5: there's a person who like is like, well, I can't
Speaker 5: just have sex all willy nilly. I need to know somebody.
Speaker 5: I need to know that I like them. And then
Speaker 5: there's a person who's like, well, I'm just trying to fuck.
Speaker 5: And sometimes the two of them might judge the other
Speaker 5: one for the right thing, right, but it's like this
Speaker 5: is what I need.
Speaker 1: I can't just have.
Speaker 5: Sex with a stranger, or I don't want to talk
Speaker 5: about my feelings with a person that title since outside
Speaker 5: my partner works.
Speaker 1: She and under what you like?
Speaker 3: Can you say I love you to someone else while
Speaker 3: also saying I love you to your fiance.
Speaker 1: Yet I feel like I was.
Speaker 5: I loved my fiance and I love the partner that
Speaker 5: I was with at the time.
Speaker 1: Now now.
Speaker 5: You know, I think there is a little more nuance
Speaker 5: to it, right, Like I like I'm gonna somebody wrote
Speaker 5: on uh it not as TikTok, Well, how are you
Speaker 5: getting married if you're polyamorous? Right, It's like, my partner
Speaker 5: is the is my best friend. She is the person
Speaker 5: that I want to share resources with. She is the
Speaker 5: person that I want to carry my child. She's the
Speaker 5: person that I want to start a family with. Right,
Speaker 5: So everybody coming in will know that my partner is
Speaker 5: my primary, the primary.
Speaker 1: And so whereas.
Speaker 5: Maybe before her I was open to like having like
Speaker 5: nobody be the primary, right, maybe having like a kitchen
Speaker 5: table thing.
Speaker 1: But for for what I know, right, which is.
Speaker 2: Into today on the kitchen table, I just yes, I
Speaker 2: just learned about the kitchen.
Speaker 1: Yo, let me say something real quick.
Speaker 5: Uh oh, niggas will be talking about kitchen table, but
Speaker 5: don't do the work.
Speaker 1: Okay, this is y'all need to quit it. Y'all need
Speaker 1: to quit it because it's it's it.
Speaker 4: Look what's in my notes? Kitchen table, Polly. It just
Speaker 4: got added in here. February twenty second of this year,
Speaker 4: I went to a freaking party and literally they handed.
Speaker 1: Out it's a way for the men to shirk responsibility
Speaker 1: by that. It's like it's like a study that this
Speaker 1: is kitchen table.
Speaker 5: Then, like I don't actually have to deal with the
Speaker 5: real problems at hand. My sister is currently dating somebody. Sorry,
Speaker 5: I'm gonna tell your business for a little bit.
Speaker 1: Who who was not Polly? Right? When your sister was
Speaker 1: not Polly? No, my sister isn't it? What is not Polly?
Speaker 5: But now it was in a poly situation, they were
Speaker 5: not Polly to begin with, right, But now all of
Speaker 5: a sudden, a year and a half in, he said,
Speaker 5: he poled, And now it's this this girl that he
Speaker 5: been had been dealing with from before who maybe they
Speaker 5: broke up or maybe they did it.
Speaker 1: But he tells her that it's kitchen table.
Speaker 5: And so then when she's like, when she's like, well,
Speaker 5: like you said, the things between us wouldn't change, well,
Speaker 5: you know, well it's kitchen table.
Speaker 1: So we gotta share. No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 5: Kitchen table is us coming to the table together discussing things.
Speaker 1: They don't ever come to the table together to discuss anything.
Speaker 5: We don't have a relationship where we can have a relationship.
Speaker 1: But also you don't have to.
Speaker 5: When she gives him feedback, it becomes about her not
Speaker 5: being Polly and not about the fact that he didn't
Speaker 5: do this problem.
Speaker 3: That's what I wrong with those men having these ultimatums
Speaker 3: so like and if you can't suck a dick, you.
Speaker 1: Not pop well.
Speaker 4: It does say kitchen kitchen table. Polly describes the style
Speaker 4: of polyamory. We're all parts in the polycule, which is
Speaker 4: why he's just misusing the word wrong. Are on friendly terms,
Speaker 4: socialized together regularly and may even share meals or living spaces.
Speaker 4: But it emphasizes a strong sense of community and we're
Speaker 4: in this together attitude where the relationships between all partners
Speaker 4: are prioritized and considered. So he's misusing the word, which
Speaker 4: I think is well together.
Speaker 1: I think you.
Speaker 5: Polyamory too, because these niggas are polygamous.
Speaker 1: No shade, but it is what it is.
Speaker 5: Because if if if the women can't go and have
Speaker 5: relationships with other women or other men, then you to.
Speaker 4: Ask you why as us knowing E and M being
Speaker 4: under an umbrella, and that polyamory has all of these
Speaker 4: different like ways in which we set up.
Speaker 2: Why are we shading polygamy when it's one of the ways.
Speaker 1: Under the umbrella. That's because the men shade to polygamy, Okay,
Speaker 1: no shade at all, but to marry.
Speaker 3: But when people are polygamists, they're dating, they're choosing women,
Speaker 3: financial game, family structure, socioeconomic Again, that's polygamy with the
Speaker 3: intent to marry. What happens with these situations, That's why
Speaker 3: I kept you know, so if you don't.
Speaker 1: Listen to our town hall.
Speaker 3: Mandy was saying, I'm surprised you had this opinion of
Speaker 3: Neo's girlfriends when.
Speaker 1: We don't want to shame anybody.
Speaker 2: It wasn't on Neil's girlfriends specifically.
Speaker 4: It was the views on specifically a woman in a
Speaker 4: polyamorous situation ship wanting to be with him alone.
Speaker 1: Right now.
Speaker 3: My opinion is that I believe these women probably want
Speaker 3: to be with him alone and they're accepting. The reason
Speaker 3: I'm coming to that is because one kind of like
Speaker 3: what you said about your sister, we see.
Speaker 1: A certain dynamic.
Speaker 3: We hear about infidelity whatever boom, Now I have four girlfriends.
Speaker 3: The other layer was that interview of when he said
Speaker 3: this is what it is. They don't like it, they
Speaker 3: can go I don't hear anybody doing anything ethical or
Speaker 3: consensual with that attitude. If we're going to come to
Speaker 3: the table together, we're going to be in this relationship together.
Speaker 1: That hers is not her contract is No, it's literally,
Speaker 1: this is who I am, this is what I want.
Speaker 1: This is how I see pitting your girlfriends together and not.
Speaker 4: What I'm saying is can people can choose you're what
Speaker 4: relationship You're getting in.
Speaker 3: Telling me what I need to do is coercion and manipulation.
Speaker 3: It's hurt honestly consent, Well, it's consent. We're rapping honesty
Speaker 3: in manipulation. I don't that's what That's what her sister's
Speaker 3: man is going, right, because they were together and she
Speaker 3: brought someone in. I'm saying out the gate.
Speaker 4: If you're saying this is what it is, there's no
Speaker 4: manipulation in someone accepting what it is. Yes, in this
Speaker 4: scenario where a woman who may or may not have
Speaker 4: been broken up or was it part of it is
Speaker 4: one thing. If he's saying out the gate, these women
Speaker 4: were given what I'm willing to do, how I'm willing.
Speaker 1: To run my house. My kids are here, they're gonna
Speaker 1: have to partake in that much. We're gonna have.
Speaker 3: We got an ig live coming twelve months or less.
Speaker 3: I'm telling you, when people just decide to jump onto something,
Speaker 3: that's a fad. Caring for these women feelings, the conversations,
Speaker 3: making everyone feel valued.
Speaker 1: Which I wish they had.
Speaker 5: This is my issue is that there's not more people
Speaker 5: when they're in these interviews asking them those questions.
Speaker 2: They don't know that they're judging me monogamous, right.
Speaker 3: I guess I'm not a monogamous person, but I'm judging
Speaker 3: based on his answer.
Speaker 1: And to me, when I talk.
Speaker 3: About coercion and manipulation, it's generally man with money, you
Speaker 3: can't fuck another nigga.
Speaker 1: I'm a fuck these girls. Hey, these are my girlfriends.
Speaker 3: Hope y'all bitch just get long kind of vibe to
Speaker 3: it instead of as we had learned more conversation about
Speaker 3: ethical non monogamy or not.
Speaker 1: It doesn't sound like that.
Speaker 3: Even the thing you just said about is it Polly
Speaker 3: if she can't suck a dick.
Speaker 1: A lot of this is control. That's not Polly, that's
Speaker 1: not opening.
Speaker 4: But I also believe in Polly, in it within ethical
Speaker 4: non monogamy that everything is customizable and it's not about
Speaker 4: just everyone being free to go out and suck dick,
Speaker 4: eat kuchi, sit on dicks.
Speaker 1: Whatever they want. Him no, but again it's a conversation.
Speaker 4: I was very adamant that that me and my partner,
Speaker 4: my ex, could fuck women together. I didn't want him
Speaker 4: fucking bitches outside of me, which is why, yes, he
Speaker 4: betrayed my trust and cheated on me, but he also
Speaker 4: was not comfortable with me fucking other niggas.
Speaker 1: I didn't feel controlled. I didn't need it.
Speaker 4: But to me, ethical non monogamy looks different for everybody.
Speaker 4: I don't think it's controlling, because hey, this doesn't work
Speaker 4: for me. If you want to go and have a
Speaker 4: poly relationship with someone else that wants, that's gonna allow
Speaker 4: you or be okay, or can take it for you sucking.
Speaker 1: Dick, go be with that. But that doesn't make God.
Speaker 5: Clearly, I'm like damn, But I think I think ultimately,
Speaker 5: what I want to say is that.
Speaker 1: Consent is the biggest pause.
Speaker 5: As long as we are all consenting, I do because
Speaker 5: I've heard stories of a of a of another person
Speaker 5: with a lot of money who uses control to be
Speaker 5: with multiple women, right, Like, I do also understand where
Speaker 5: you're coming from, because we do need to be having
Speaker 5: the conversation about like money playing a part in like
Speaker 5: how people are relating or what people would put up
Speaker 5: with or not put up with. But I do think,
Speaker 5: like we can see that all of the women were together,
Speaker 5: so we know that they're all consenting. So my hope
Speaker 5: is that they're happy and they're fulfilled, and when they
Speaker 5: want to talk about it and tell us, oh my god,
Speaker 5: this is the greatest thing ever or actually I was upset,
Speaker 5: then I could make the judgment on like what that was, that.
Speaker 3: Would hopefully be the story, right because honestly, that would
Speaker 3: be the greatest thing for ethical nominogamy, Yes.
Speaker 5: For somebody to be like, wow, I was treated so
Speaker 5: well and then I had these women who I loved,
Speaker 5: who I could be with all the time, and we
Speaker 5: all love the same man.
Speaker 4: Live casting, sad I didn't get a contract live casting?
Speaker 4: Can I get a polyameras couple with two women one
Speaker 4: man combined income under two hundred thousand.
Speaker 1: That I think like takes away.
Speaker 4: I would want to know two women who are happily
Speaker 4: with a man where the combined income between.
Speaker 1: The three of you ain't watch.
Speaker 5: You know that black man, that white woman with the
Speaker 5: two with the black woman with the two men.
Speaker 1: Yes, and I've seen them online.
Speaker 4: I would love to be able to talk to it
Speaker 4: because I hate where we have to just keep bringing
Speaker 4: up the money. I would love to speak about two
Speaker 4: women who are agreeing to be in a relationship that's polly,
Speaker 4: that don't care or wouldn't be happier if they were
Speaker 4: the only ones that could genuinely come in and explain
Speaker 4: and express ethical nominogamy and white works for them without
Speaker 4: the money being the factor. Please email me d M
Speaker 4: me uh decisions Pott. Gmail will get you on horrible
Speaker 4: We bring you here.
Speaker 3: We need to have share to come back because we
Speaker 3: gotta wrap for somebody else walking in.
Speaker 1: And I know y'all like, damn, it just got hot,
Speaker 1: But I just want to.
Speaker 5: Say that it's it's also indigenous, like the sharing of resources,
Speaker 5: the and so community. I'm happy to see like more
Speaker 5: people are talking about it.
Speaker 1: I just am.
Speaker 5: I just am excited about more women talking about it. Yeah,
Speaker 5: we get a lot of the male perspective. And I
Speaker 5: think also people have so many ideas about it, but
Speaker 5: monogamy is the younger sister.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean.
Speaker 3: Us hold this, thank you, Mandy close us out while
Speaker 3: she holding this book that just fits so perfectly well life.
Speaker 5: No, I need a book now by you, Jerry. No
Speaker 5: people are asking for the book.
Speaker 1: No, no, no no.
Speaker 4: And I got a good writer for you if you
Speaker 4: want to write one, Yes I do. I got a
Speaker 4: writer for you. No holds Bart Duing Manifesto, Sexual Exploration
Speaker 4: and Power. Get it now wherever you get your book
Speaker 4: available June twenty fourth. Also get onto our Patreon, Patreon,
Speaker 4: dot com, backslash Horrible Decisions, Bye, Jerry, thank you so
Speaker 4: much for joining us. So glad we finally got this happened.
Speaker 4: This has been another episode of Decisions, Decisions
Speaker 1: Repett the Bud, the don between the