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Speaker 8: Hello, Next Picture Show listeners. Here's a friendly reminder that

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Speaker 8: if you enjoy the Next Picture Show, you'll really enjoy

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Speaker 8: you can get our weekly newsletter for three dollars a

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Speaker 8: month and unlocked bonus episodes for five dollars a month.

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Speaker 8: the podcast. We recently released a bonus episode on Luca

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Speaker 8: in the State of Pixar. We have another bonus episode

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Speaker 8: in the works on the HBO series The White Lotus.

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Speaker 8: To subscribe to our Patreon, please visit patreon dot com.

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Speaker 3: Next Picture Show.

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Speaker 4: It's very difficult to keep the line between the past and.

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Speaker 6: The price you please.

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Speaker 9: Someone out of the past can enter and take possession

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Speaker 9: of a living being.

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Speaker 6: We maybe true with the past, but the past is.

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Speaker 10: Not true with us.

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Speaker 8: Welcome to the Next Picture Show, a movie of the

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Speaker 8: Week podcast about it to a classic film and how

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Speaker 8: it shaped our thoughts on a recent release. I'm Scott

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Speaker 8: Tobias here with Keith.

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Speaker 5: Pepps and Genevieve Koski.

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Speaker 8: Tasha is currently meditating on a homemade bed of nails,

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Speaker 8: but she'll be on the show soon. In her place,

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Speaker 8: we're thrilled to have her old friend and colleague, Noel Murray,

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Speaker 8: who worked with us at the av Club and The Dissolve,

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Speaker 8: whose work can be found in The New York Times,

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Speaker 8: The Los Angeles Times, Polygon, and other fine publications.

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Speaker 7: Noel, Hello, my friends, hear you all again?

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Speaker 3: I should say, yeah, well, yeah, here right.

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Speaker 8: This is an audio medium. You're not actually seeing us.

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Speaker 8: You have to pretend that we're all in the dark.

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Speaker 8: So for the first time in over a year, we'll

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Speaker 8: be discussing a new film that I personally anyway did

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Speaker 8: not see at home on my TV or computer monitor.

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Speaker 8: But when I saw the old fashioned way on the

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Speaker 8: big screen in a reduced capacity theater surrounded by people

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Speaker 8: in masks. Now, normally I would do some scripted tom

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Speaker 8: foolery here about this week's pairing, But now that our

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Speaker 8: year plus of quarantinement has mostly come to an end,

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Speaker 8: I wanted to ask each of you what going back

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Speaker 8: to the movies has been like. Has a year away

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Speaker 8: changed your relationship to the movies and movie theaters? Keith,

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Speaker 8: what about you?

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Speaker 6: I'm happy to be back. It was the first thing,

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Speaker 6: you know, the first night I was fully vaccinated, I

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Speaker 6: went to see a movie. It didn't really matter what movie,

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Speaker 6: but I was glad I saw it. I saw Boonda

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Speaker 6: at the Music Box Theater. I've been kind of trying

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Speaker 6: to spread the love around by going to a couple

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Speaker 6: of different theaters to see movies and kind of see

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Speaker 6: what it's like at the multiplex, what it's like at

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Speaker 6: various other places. And it's been nice to be back.

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Speaker 6: I think in some ways, the first moment of normality

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Speaker 6: wasn't seeing Gounda. It was seen Quiet Place, Part two

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Speaker 6: a couple weeks later, at a theater called the Davis

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Speaker 6: here in Chicago, which I love, great place, but about

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Speaker 6: a third of the way in, someone decided to turn

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Speaker 6: the flashlight out of their phone on and look for

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Speaker 6: something on the floor for I'm not kidding ten straight

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Speaker 6: minutes until I finally said, please turn the light off.

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Speaker 6: So you know we're back.

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Speaker 5: Baby changed, the more they stay the same.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, the bum for me is that I want to

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Speaker 6: take my kid to the movies. I don't yet quite

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Speaker 6: feel safe doing that. I have a feeling if she masks,

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Speaker 6: she'd be okay, But you know she's not vaccinated. She's

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Speaker 6: under twelve, so we're not doing that yet.

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Speaker 3: Noel, what about yourself?

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Speaker 11: I have I've been once. I saw in the Heights

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Speaker 11: on opening weekend with my family, all vaccinated, and it

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Speaker 11: was nice. It was nice to be in a nice

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Speaker 11: peak theater. Again, I will say that before that, I

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Speaker 11: actually did one of those rent out a theater things

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Speaker 11: during during the pandemic. My wife actually my birthday last year,

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Speaker 11: got a theater showing tenant and invited all of our

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Speaker 11: friends and about fourteen of us in the theater with

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Speaker 11: masks and everything, and that was really nice. So yeah,

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Speaker 11: I mean, it's different for me because I'm not in

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Speaker 11: a big city. I live in a smaller city in

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Speaker 11: a different, less Costopolitan area than you. Guys, So I

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Speaker 11: don't get to go to art houses and things, just

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Speaker 11: just a multiplex, and I'm happy to have the option,

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Speaker 11: although I will admit, you know, during the pandemic, it

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Speaker 11: was nice to be kind of on a level playing

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Speaker 11: field with you guys where whatever was opening up where

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Speaker 11: you were, I could watch on my TV, say as

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Speaker 11: you could watch it on your TV.

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Speaker 3: So that's interesting.

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Speaker 5: I felt a little of that too, Nol, because I've

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Speaker 5: been in Michigan for the past couple of years, and

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Speaker 5: before the pandemic started, you know, there were there were

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Speaker 5: several podcast pairings we did that I had to sit

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Speaker 5: out because I wasn't getting screening invites here here in

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Speaker 5: Michigan and I couldn't see things in time. So definitely

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Speaker 5: I relate to the leveled playing field of it, and

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Speaker 5: I relate to in the Heights being or first time

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Speaker 5: back in the theater because it was was also mine

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Speaker 5: and in this film A Roadrunner, the film we're going

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Speaker 5: to be talking about spoiler Alert, was my only my

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Speaker 5: second so I have not been like necessarily rushing out

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Speaker 5: at every opportunity. Part of that is because, also, like you,

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Speaker 5: I am in an area where there aren't any sort

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Speaker 5: of beloved indie theaters that I'm dying to get back to.

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Speaker 5: I'm actually planning to hit up the Music Box on

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Speaker 5: an upcoming visit to Chicago, and I'm very much looking

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Speaker 5: forward to that. But having moved to a new area

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Speaker 5: during the pandemic, I don't like have any real loyalties

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Speaker 5: to local theaters. So I think my movie going choices

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Speaker 5: have been, you know, born more of my theater going choices,

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Speaker 5: I should say, have been born more of necessity than

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Speaker 5: you know, a real drive to get back into the cinema.

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Speaker 5: And I will say I watched A Quiet Place at

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Speaker 5: Home on Paramount Plus streaming, and I feel fine about that.

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Speaker 5: That is like the exact kind of movie that I

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Speaker 5: am totally okay not spending, you know, thirty dollars to

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Speaker 5: go see in a theater. I'm not ready to totally

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Speaker 5: reject to the sort of streaming paradigm that has popped

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Speaker 5: up during the pandemic. I think there is some in

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Speaker 5: certain cases it is still maybe a preferable model.

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Speaker 8: It's funny though, that both you and Noel saw In

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Speaker 8: the Heights, which I assume both of you had easy

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Speaker 8: access to on HBO Max, so that was a conscious

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Speaker 8: decision of like, I want to see this movie projected.

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Speaker 8: It really is the only problem I'm having, I mean,

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Speaker 8: is that Hollywood is not putting out anything I want

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Speaker 8: to see. It's like, other than in the Heights, it's

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Speaker 8: a really bad summer movie season, and I can't I

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Speaker 8: can't even quite get up the energy to see F nine.

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Speaker 8: I think I maybe yeah, behind a few f's, but

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Speaker 8: I did get out. I saw the thirty five millimeter

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Speaker 8: of Touch of Evil at the music boxes my first,

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Speaker 8: and I've been seeing a lot of art films in

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Speaker 8: our house, a lot of things that music box, a

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Speaker 8: lot of things that Landmark because just because of the

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Speaker 8: movies are better.

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Speaker 3: And it feels it feels great.

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Speaker 8: But there was also we kind of established for a

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Speaker 8: while here kind of a family movie night every Friday

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Speaker 8: with with popcorn and candy and you know, something that

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Speaker 8: was appropriate for the whole family. We kind of ran

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Speaker 8: out of titles. There's not many movies that all of

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Speaker 8: us want to watch, believe it or not, and basketball

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Speaker 8: was on, so anyway, it's going to be back, and

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Speaker 8: I'm sure that that on this podcast and on our

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Speaker 8: bonus podcast and probably in print will be talking about

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Speaker 8: how movie going has changed or is changing, But that's

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Speaker 8: something for another time.

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Speaker 6: I went, I had one weird thing I want to see.

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Speaker 6: I would to see Readrunner at an AMC theater and

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Speaker 6: I wanted to use the what do you call the

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Speaker 6: Coca cola mix the mixing freestyle? Yeah, freestyle, So I

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Speaker 6: would to use Coca cola to freestyles. Anyone use one

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Speaker 6: of those post quarantine?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I used fue Okay? Did mine was? It was touchless,

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Speaker 6: so I had to scan a QR code, pick my

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Speaker 6: soda out on my phone, and then press a button

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Speaker 6: to distribute the soda.

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Speaker 10: Uh.

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Speaker 6: And you know, you know when my coup was a whole,

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Speaker 6: I raised the button off my phone. It was the

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Speaker 6: weirdest thing.

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Speaker 5: Oh wow, I didn't experience that. I had to touch

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Speaker 5: a grimy old screen.

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Speaker 6: My vaccinated cinctury.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, you know, a classic movie going experience. So so,

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Speaker 8: but we have we have some business to take care

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Speaker 8: of this this week. So Gennevie, what do we have

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Speaker 8: on tap for.

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Speaker 5: This week's set of episodes. We're going to be talking

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Speaker 5: about two documentary profiles of difficult, iconoclastic men who had

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Speaker 5: an uncomfortable relationship to their own accidental celebrity. At no

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Speaker 5: point did Anthony Bourdain imagine that his passion for food

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Speaker 5: could turn him into a world traveling TV star. But

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Speaker 5: the new Morgan Neville documentary road Runner follows his journey

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Speaker 5: step by step, from line cook to chef to best

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Speaker 5: selling author to renegade host of t V shows like

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Speaker 5: No Reservations and Parts Unknown. It also reveals the dark

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Speaker 5: side of a troubled and contradictory man who took his

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Speaker 5: own life. Much of that darkness also engulfs the life

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Speaker 5: of our Crumb, the underground comics pioneer who wrote a

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Speaker 5: countercultural wave in the sixties and early seventies but was

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Speaker 5: driven more by impulse than ideology. Terry Zwygof's Crumb is

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Speaker 5: an intimate and often unsettling look at Crumb's life and work,

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Speaker 5: focusing on his deeply troubled upbringing and often controversial ways

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Speaker 5: it was manifested into art.

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Speaker 8: So this week we'll talk about the outsider art and

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Speaker 8: interior discord of Robert Crumb and Crumb, and next week

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Speaker 8: we'll keep on truck and through Roadrunner, which follows Anthony

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Speaker 8: Bourdain's similarly unlikely ascendance as a public figure please join us.

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Speaker 9: If I don't draw for a while, I get really

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Speaker 9: crazy at actually really pressed. In suicide, I don't think,

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Speaker 9: don't get to draw, but Interne's when I'm drawing ACTSS

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Speaker 9: suicide too.

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Speaker 3: So are you trying to get at in your world?

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Speaker 9: Jesus? I don't work in terms of conscious messages. I

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Speaker 9: can't do that. It has to be something that I'm

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Speaker 9: revealing to myself while i'm doing it, which is hard

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Speaker 9: to explain, which means that while I'm doing it, I

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Speaker 9: don't know exactly what it's about. You just have to

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Speaker 9: have the courage or to take that chance. You know

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Speaker 9: what's going to come out, what's coming out of this.

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Speaker 9: I enjoy drawing that, so it's deeply ingrained habit. Because

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Speaker 9: of my brother Charles.

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Speaker 8: It's probably safe to say that most artists imagine themselves

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Speaker 8: getting to a point where their passions can lead to

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Speaker 8: some form of public notoriety like a movie premiere or

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Speaker 8: a popular TV show, or best selling album or book,

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Speaker 8: or even just a sustainable career and self expression. And

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Speaker 8: if they can imagine those things, they probably also think

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Speaker 8: about how they position their work within the culture, following

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Speaker 8: one path or another in order to satisfy their ambition.

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Speaker 8: It's only not even for those who posit themselves as

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Speaker 8: fiercely independent and outside the mainstream. No such lane existed

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Speaker 8: for Robert Crumb, the underground comics artist known as R. Crumb,

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Speaker 8: and it can't really be said that he blazes a

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Speaker 8: trail either, at least not deliberately. Terry's Wygoff's documentary Crumb

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Speaker 8: reveals an artist who seems driven by impulses that he

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Speaker 8: seems to have spent remarkably little time reflecting on, much

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Speaker 8: less modifying to make them more socially acceptable. He's like

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Speaker 8: the eye of a hurricane, an oddly serene presence in

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Speaker 8: the middle of the controversies and cultural turmoil that swirl

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Speaker 8: around him. What the documentary makes clear is that Crumb,

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Speaker 8: despite his evident talent, should never have been a household name,

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Speaker 8: and it was a sheer accident of timing that the

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Speaker 8: counterculture happened to pick him up and carry him along.

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Speaker 8: And while fame seems to have rescued him from a

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Speaker 8: considerably darker fate, much of his art remains stubbornly fixed

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Speaker 8: in a state of arrested adolescence, unchanged by public response.

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Speaker 8: Without playing the role of armchair psychologist Swygoff gives the

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Speaker 8: viewer a window in a Crumb's past and present that

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Speaker 8: helps account for his vision, even as it does it

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Speaker 8: turn away from the shocking misogyny and racism that bubbled

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Speaker 8: up in his work. It took years for Swygoff to

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Speaker 8: gain the access and footage he needed to finish the film,

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Speaker 8: and it's easy to see why Crumb would be reluctant

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Speaker 8: to bring him into spaces that few people have entered,

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Speaker 8: much less a camera crew. Crumb grew up in the

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Speaker 8: projects of West Philadelphia and Upper Darby the product of

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Speaker 8: an extremely unhappy marriage that nonetheless yielded five children, three

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Speaker 8: boys and two girls. We don't learn much about Crumb's sisters,

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Speaker 8: who declined to participate in the film, but we do

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Speaker 8: get to know his brothers, Charles and Maxon, who both

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Speaker 8: suffered lifelong mental illness. All three were social misfits, abused

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Speaker 8: at home and bullied at school, and all three would

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Speaker 8: retreat into fantasy and drawing, which was the one positive

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Speaker 8: inheritance from their father, who was a combat illustrator in

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Speaker 8: the Marine Corps. Only Robert was able to parley his

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Speaker 8: talent into a sustainable career drawing novelty cards for American

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Speaker 8: greetings in the early sixties before his Fritz the Cat

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Speaker 8: Strips set him on a different course. Swygoff isn't really

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Speaker 8: interested in a conventional recount of Crumb's career. However, He's

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Speaker 8: more interested in understanding the primordial forces of Crumb's art,

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Speaker 8: how they're informed by a traumatic past that's never lost

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Speaker 8: its hold over him. Over the course of the film,

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Speaker 8: we spend time with Charles, a recluse who still lives

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Speaker 8: in Squalor with his mother and beats back some terrible

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Speaker 8: demons with old books and antidepressants. We also visit Maxon

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Speaker 8: and Arthur, an artist who lives in Squalor in San

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Speaker 8: Francisco and is shown meditating on a homemade bed of nails.

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Speaker 8: As we learn more about the mental illness and aberate

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Speaker 8: impulses of his brothers, we might also suspect that Robert's

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Speaker 8: life would have follow the same trajectory, how the timing

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Speaker 8: not been right. Even as a relatively functional adult, we

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Speaker 8: can see how Robert has trouble relating to other people,

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Speaker 8: including his children and the women who have passed through

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Speaker 8: his life. Zwygof makes the connections between Crumb's life and

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Speaker 8: work clear, and he also finds a room for critics

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Speaker 8: to process them and try to put them in context,

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Speaker 8: particularly because Crumb himself is completely ill equipped to do

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Speaker 8: so on his own. The documentary does not tell us

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Speaker 8: how to feel about Crumb's art. That leaves us with

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Speaker 8: appreciators like the modern art critic Robert Hughes, and detractors

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Speaker 8: who point out the unchecked hostility some of those work

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Speaker 8: shows towards women and people of other races. It left

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Speaker 8: audiences with a lot to talk about in nineteen eighty four,

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Speaker 8: and it now leaves us with a lot to talk

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Speaker 8: about in twenty twenty one. We'll start doing that after

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Speaker 8: the break.

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Speaker 6: Minutes with same day Wi Fi.

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Speaker 12: price and unlock the possibilities Exfinity. Imagine that select plans

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Speaker 12: by coaxial cable.

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Speaker 4: Actual speeds vary.

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Speaker 9: My father died in eighty two. My aunt gave me

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Speaker 9: all this stuff in my father's center over the years.

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Speaker 9: One of the things with this book that he wrote

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Speaker 9: training people effectively. So I'm not sure what he did

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Speaker 9: for a living in the last years of his life

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Speaker 9: had something to do with employee motivation for this corporation

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Speaker 9: that he worked for.

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Speaker 3: It's a photo. This is what.

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Speaker 9: I was reading recently about this syndrome in Japan. Now,

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Speaker 9: did Japanese businessman have something about some smiling disease or

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Speaker 9: they had this like fixed smile on their face all

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Speaker 9: the time. And I think my father had that article

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Speaker 9: said it was a sign of deep depression. He didn't

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Speaker 9: smile when he was home. The smile dropped as soon

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Speaker 9: as he came home. He's a grim guy, fought in

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Speaker 9: the war and everything, and you just had a real

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Speaker 9: hard ass attitude about life, and thought that my mother

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Speaker 9: was molly coddling all of us, which she was, and

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Speaker 9: there all three of his sons ended up being wimpy,

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Speaker 9: nerdy weirdos. It kind of broke his heart. I think

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Speaker 9: he wanted at least wanted us to become a marine standard.

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Speaker 8: First question for everyone, what what's your history with Crumb

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Speaker 8: and and how does it look in the year twenty

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Speaker 8: twenty one. Noel's let's start with you.

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Speaker 11: Well, as somebody who is a lifelong comic book fan

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Speaker 11: who read a lot of underground comics when I was

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Speaker 11: in college, I saw this movie when it came out.

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Speaker 11: It was a big deal for me. And yeah, so,

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Speaker 11: I mean, I remember when Crumb, I guess played Sundance first.

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Speaker 11: Is that where it first played?

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Speaker 3: You remember, well nod did was it wasn't Swaigoff.

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Speaker 8: I read an interview you did Withzwagoff Nol where he

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Speaker 8: was saying it got rejected everywhere, but maybe correct maybe

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Speaker 8: it eventually got it. I feel like it won something

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Speaker 8: at Sundance.

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Speaker 11: Though whatever festival played at. I know that Cisco and

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Speaker 11: Ebert talked it up, and I was very excited about it.

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Speaker 11: As somebody who was a huge fan of you know,

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Speaker 11: underground comics and ar A. Crumb, I went and saw

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Speaker 11: it right away. It blew me away. It's a film

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Speaker 11: that I have watched I think probably about eight, nine

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Speaker 11: ten times in my life. I have shown it to

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Speaker 11: students when I taught a comic book class, and I'll

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Speaker 11: talk more about that later, because it was kind of

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Speaker 11: interesting experience about their reacting to the film, and I

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Speaker 11: think it still is. It is a really amazing film.

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Speaker 11: There's a certain kind of personal quality that Terry's Weggoff

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Speaker 11: brings to it as somebody who knew Our Crumb and

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Speaker 11: was friends with him and saw things that other people

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Speaker 11: could not see just from the comics alone. And so

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Speaker 11: it's I think a film that today is troubling in

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Speaker 11: a different way than it was in nineteen ninety four,

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Speaker 11: ninety five, that whole era, but it's still, i think,

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Speaker 11: you know, extraordinarily effective at showing this person's life and

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Speaker 11: his art and where it came from.

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Speaker 5: I'll go next, and so I'm at the exact opposite

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Speaker 5: end of the spectrum from Noel, and I'm actually very

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Speaker 5: curious to hear how you taught this film, because this

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Speaker 5: was my first time seeing it, and my experience with Crumb,

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Speaker 5: with Our Crumb's work, I think was almost exclusively through

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Speaker 5: my time at the A. B Club and reading stuff

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Speaker 5: that Noel wrote as well as Keith, you know, like

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Speaker 5: I kind of absorbed his work and attendant notoriety through

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Speaker 5: your guys's writing. So I did not see this film

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Speaker 5: when it came out, as I always do. I will

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Speaker 5: I will point out that I was ten when it

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Speaker 5: came out. Wait, sorry, maybe maybe eleven. Yeah, right, I

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Speaker 5: kind of knew it by reputation, but you know, just

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Speaker 5: not having a super strong connection to Crumb as an

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Speaker 5: artist and having some idea of the notoriety around him

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Speaker 5: and the film, I think it just I wasn't compelled

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Speaker 5: to seek it out. And it's a difficult film to watch,

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Speaker 5: I think for your first time, if you you know,

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Speaker 5: I have sort of limited context and very limited appreciation

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Speaker 5: for the man behind this work. I think I felt

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Speaker 5: myself kind of checking myself throughout, you know, to focus

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Speaker 5: on this movie as a piece of filmmaking, because you know,

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Speaker 5: very early on I realized that I was not going

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Speaker 5: to connect to the subject of this film on any

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Speaker 5: on a level other than distaste. So I think once

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Speaker 5: I kind of like accepted that, it was easier to

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Speaker 5: tamp down these sort of flare ups of disgust I

407
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Speaker 5: felt through throughout the film, and you know, focus more

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Speaker 5: on what Zwygov was doing and sort of the you know,

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Speaker 5: the ethical complications there as well as it relates to

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Speaker 5: the Crumb the wider Crumb family. There's a lot to

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Speaker 5: think about in this film, and it's it's a rich film.

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Speaker 5: It's a rich texts, as we say, but I think

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Speaker 5: it's one that has a really big hurdle that you

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Speaker 5: have to kind of go in with a maybe a

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Speaker 5: clear idea of your own relationship to to Crumb's work.

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Speaker 5: And I didn't really have that going in, and it

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Speaker 5: was kind of forming it as I watched it, and

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Speaker 5: it it made for a difficult watch, but an interesting one.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 6: I think He's Wigoff is good at like kind of

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Speaker 6: slowly immersing you in the full upsetting all the upsetting

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Speaker 6: qualities of Crumb's work, Like you know, you deal with one,

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Speaker 6: you deal with the the misogyny and one and a

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Speaker 6: little bit down the line, you deal with the racist imagery.

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Speaker 6: And I don't know. I think it's a great film.

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Speaker 6: It's a really terrific approach to it. And and I

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Speaker 6: remember how I thought at the time was basically looking

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Speaker 6: at Crumb's work as what he needed to do to

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Speaker 6: survive whatever psychological trauma that had damaged the rest of

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Speaker 6: his family. And I see and it is it's tough

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Speaker 6: to take. I admire his work, though, and I admire

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Speaker 6: the unfielderedness of his of his life and his work

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Speaker 6: at the same time. Uh, you know. And I think

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Speaker 6: the fact that he is so open about who he

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Speaker 6: is and makes no attempts to disguise his impulses and

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Speaker 6: where they where they you know, where they come from,

437
00:21:57,160 --> 00:21:58,560
Speaker 6: and how they find their way in to his work.

438
00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:02,520
Speaker 6: I think that goes a long way toward making him

439
00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:06,680
Speaker 6: a more sympathetic figure in some ways. Yeah, it's tough, though,

440
00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:11,000
Speaker 6: because now you look at it and it is it's

441
00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:14,639
Speaker 6: a lot of upsetting imagery, and I'm not sure it

442
00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:17,000
Speaker 6: quite plays the same way. I know it isn't play

443
00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:18,639
Speaker 6: the same way in twenty twenty one was it played

444
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:22,520
Speaker 6: in nineteen sixty eight. And I think nineteen ninety four

445
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:25,560
Speaker 6: was kind of a different time as well. I saw

446
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:28,960
Speaker 6: more as a historical figure. I felt like, you know,

447
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,640
Speaker 6: he still works today, but I felt like what had

448
00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:36,760
Speaker 6: really been important had been the way he pushed you know,

449
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:38,960
Speaker 6: kind of like the sex pistols or or kind of

450
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:41,920
Speaker 6: kind of broke down boundaries for others to walk through

451
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:43,400
Speaker 6: with his earliest work.

452
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:45,760
Speaker 8: I mean, I saw it, of course, you know, as

453
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:48,919
Speaker 8: soon as I could. In ninety four. That was that

454
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,560
Speaker 8: was back when I think, Nolan, I were you out

455
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:53,840
Speaker 8: of Athens at that point, Nolan, I think in ninety four.

456
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:55,120
Speaker 11: Yeah, I was in Nashville.

457
00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:57,440
Speaker 8: Nashville, Yeah, But at that point I was, I guess,

458
00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:01,119
Speaker 8: a senior in college and doing frequent kind of you know,

459
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:03,440
Speaker 8: trips from Athens to Atlanta to see a bunch of

460
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:04,480
Speaker 8: art films at once.

461
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:06,119
Speaker 3: And I think Chrome was part of that trip.

462
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:07,920
Speaker 8: So I saw it as soon as I could, and

463
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:11,920
Speaker 8: admired it greatly then and admire it greatly now. Swinkof's approaches,

464
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:16,080
Speaker 8: there's a standard way, I guess of presenting an artist's

465
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:20,200
Speaker 8: life or any doing any kind of biographical documentary, you

466
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:24,119
Speaker 8: could really sort of lean on a TikTok of events,

467
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:27,800
Speaker 8: and I think Zwagoff tries to avoid that as much

468
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:29,919
Speaker 8: as possible. I mean, I think you do get a

469
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:31,919
Speaker 8: sense of the progression of his work, you know that

470
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:33,280
Speaker 8: it does take you through that.

471
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,160
Speaker 3: But it does so in kind of a subtle and.

472
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:39,919
Speaker 8: Offhanded way, and really winds up burrowing into.

473
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 3: The psychological aspect of R.

474
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:46,120
Speaker 8: Crumb and his brothers. In that whole sort of through

475
00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 8: that entire mess. I mean, and it takes you the

476
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:52,880
Speaker 8: camera just simply takes you into spaces that you're shocked.

477
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:54,440
Speaker 3: To be in that nobody has seen.

478
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:56,840
Speaker 8: I mean, nobody's been in Charles Crumb's room but his

479
00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:00,680
Speaker 8: mom really and maybe Roberts sometimes. But here we are

480
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:04,240
Speaker 8: with it with a camera, and everything is is unfiltered,

481
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 8: and it's unfiltered in every sense. It's unfiltered in these

482
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:11,399
Speaker 8: conversations that end up witnessing, and then of course the

483
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:15,479
Speaker 8: work itself is unfiltered. And and it's fascinating to see,

484
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:20,359
Speaker 8: you know, an artist who is completely instinctual. He doesn't

485
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:24,200
Speaker 8: try to doesn't seem to be capable or even or

486
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:29,359
Speaker 8: willing to filter his work through self reflection. It's just raw.

487
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:31,919
Speaker 8: It's like it's the ID I think, as someone describe it.

488
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 8: And and and it makes you think about like other artists,

489
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:37,159
Speaker 8: you know, and how do they work and do they

490
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 8: feel any responsibility for the things they put out there?

491
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:43,920
Speaker 8: I mean, because plainly some of the stuff he was doing,

492
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,679
Speaker 8: if he reflected on it at all, was just repulsive.

493
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 8: So it's interesting like if he had those instincts that

494
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 8: he would check that and just do the work in

495
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 8: a kind of a pure way.

496
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 5: As far as the like TikTok biographical aspect. Just one

497
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 5: sort of exception that I I think proves your point

498
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 5: that I wanted to point out as the very early

499
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 5: scene where we see him talking to assuming a college group.

500
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 5: It's not we're not told exactly who these kids are

501
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:14,159
Speaker 5: that he's talking to, but he is sort of presenting

502
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:17,440
Speaker 5: himself and his work and while he's talking to them,

503
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,480
Speaker 5: So it does give us that sort of baseline biographical info,

504
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,879
Speaker 5: but it does so through his words. We're not getting

505
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:27,399
Speaker 5: it from, you know, one of the art critics or

506
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:29,680
Speaker 5: contemporaries that we see throughout the film. We're not getting

507
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 5: it through on screen text. We're getting him talking about

508
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 5: himself and his work, and not exceptionally eloquently or deeply,

509
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:40,679
Speaker 5: you know, And it's kind of like sets the terms

510
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:42,640
Speaker 5: for the rest of the film as far as how

511
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 5: Crumb himself is going to engage with his work throughout.

512
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 11: Yeah, I mean the things he brings up in that

513
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 11: speech to the kids are the things he is most

514
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 11: famous for, which he is, you know, in retrospect embarrassed by,

515
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 11: you know, the things that made him popular, like Fritz

516
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 11: the Cat and Mister Natural and the big They're in

517
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 11: the Holding Company album cover, you know, all the things

518
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 11: that made him kind of a figure of the sixties,

519
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 11: which he never really wanted to be, and so he

520
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:08,479
Speaker 11: kind of rejected that without the rest of his career.

521
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 11: You know, I thought that a very interesting approach to

522
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:13,240
Speaker 11: kind of do that at the beginning and then go

523
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 11: into the stuff Thatzwagoff is clearly more interested in, which

524
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 11: is the Crumb family and they're dynamic. I interviewed Zwaigoff,

525
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,160
Speaker 11: I think twice. I know I did for the Ad Club.

526
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 11: I think I also interviewed him for the Nashville scene

527
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 11: when the movie first came out, and talked to him

528
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:30,600
Speaker 11: about that a little bit. And you know, he was

529
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:34,200
Speaker 11: friends with Crumb and they were in some similar circles

530
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 11: as jazz fans, and you know, I think Swygoff was

531
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 11: fascinated by Crumb's art, but I don't think that really

532
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 11: he wanted to make a movie about a cartoonist. I

533
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,479
Speaker 11: think he was fascinated primarily by the brothers, these three people,

534
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:50,399
Speaker 11: and also Aileen, you know, Robert's wife, Halen Kamiski Crumb

535
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:53,159
Speaker 11: and kind of the way they react to the world.

536
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 11: There's a certain kind of cadence to their voice if

537
00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:58,200
Speaker 11: you watch the film, that they kind of all fall

538
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,440
Speaker 11: into at a certain point where they everyone's always complaining,

539
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:03,399
Speaker 11: He's kind of good. They're always kind of like, you know,

540
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:06,120
Speaker 11: goes really high and nasal and uh, you know, they're

541
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 11: kind of like it's like a constant kind of stream,

542
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:10,000
Speaker 11: you know, coming from all of them, Like all the

543
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 11: brothers and Ayleen have the same voice, but they also

544
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:14,920
Speaker 11: have kind of a smile on their face the whole time.

545
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:17,480
Speaker 11: And it's sort of this like how do they process

546
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 11: this world that they find ugly and disappointing, And the

547
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:23,119
Speaker 11: way they do that is by kind of standing aside

548
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 11: from a little little dead and commenting on it. And

549
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 11: I think that's what I think is wag Off, who

550
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 11: also has a similar sensibility in his own work, as

551
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:32,920
Speaker 11: you can see in films like Ghost World and Bad

552
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:36,919
Speaker 11: Santa and his other documentary about Louis Bluie, That this

553
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:38,400
Speaker 11: is I think what I think drew him to Crum

554
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 11: even more so than the comics.

555
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 6: I will say that though it does depict the art

556
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:44,360
Speaker 6: in a way that kind of gives you a sense

557
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 6: of what it's all about. One of my favorite sequences

558
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 6: is one he is in San Francisco sketching and the

559
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,200
Speaker 6: montage is just of people that off his catch on

560
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 6: his camera, but they look like our crumb draw It's like.

561
00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:59,440
Speaker 5: You the mouse.

562
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,199
Speaker 6: Yes, yeah, but I mean you start enough time with

563
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 6: his art and like how he sees the world at

564
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 6: that point that you kind of have your R crumb

565
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 6: filter on. It's like, oh, I can see how exactly

566
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:11,360
Speaker 6: how these will be turned into two drawings.

567
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:16,159
Speaker 8: Yeah, It's fascinating the way he processes memories too. I

568
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,640
Speaker 8: mean that the bit where he's drawing sketches of all

569
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 8: of these girls from his yearbook and commenting on his

570
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:25,159
Speaker 8: memories of them. One thing I'm interested in because we

571
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,920
Speaker 8: do have some some comics experts here.

572
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:29,399
Speaker 3: Nolan and Key.

573
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 6: Almost has read a lot more Crumb Crumb than I have.

574
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 6: I mean, I've dipped in. But I also I also

575
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 6: found that's helpful that you can read around the parts

576
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 6: of Crome you don't want to find too disturbing to read.

577
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 11: Well, which I think is referred to in the film.

578
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 11: To Trina Robbins is interviewed at length and she talks

579
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 11: about how disgusting she finds a lot of his work

580
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 11: and she could trast it specifically with what she considers

581
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 11: to be the joyousness of his mid to late sixties work,

582
00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 11: where it is more about commenting on the absurdity of

583
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 11: a marror and mascots and you know, and there was

584
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 11: a fun to it that she, you know, kind of

585
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 11: wishes that he hadn't abandoned as his film got darker

586
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 11: and more cynical in the seventies.

587
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 8: Yeah, but I was curious, Nol. I mean, you know,

588
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 8: given you know, you're exposed to his work. I think

589
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 8: before seeing this documentary, I mean, how does the documentary,

590
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 8: I guess shape your understanding of him as an artist?

591
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 8: Did you see his work differently? I guess after seeing

592
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 8: the film, I.

593
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 11: Saw a little bit more lightness. This is going to

594
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 11: sound strange, given how dark the film is, a little

595
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 11: more lightness to Crumb himself, Like if you just read

596
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 11: his comics, there is especially if you kind of follow

597
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 11: the progression from you know, the psychedelic comics to the

598
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 11: ones in the seventies where they do get you know, perverse,

599
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 11: and they do get to they kind of depict America

600
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,239
Speaker 11: as kind of rotting at the core. You would get

601
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 11: the sense that he was just a dour individual. And

602
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 11: I do think in this film you get the sense

603
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:57,719
Speaker 11: that he, in his own way is I don't want

604
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 11: to say well adjusted, but maybe better then you might think,

605
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 11: just just from looking at his work. But I mean,

606
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 11: you know, one thing about our Crum is that he

607
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 11: was one of the pioneers of autobiographical comics. So you know,

608
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 11: if you've read a lot of his comics, you kind

609
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 11: of I kind of already knew a lot about him

610
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 11: because he kind of put it all on the page before.

611
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 11: So the question for his wag off is what do

612
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 11: you pick and choose from that? What parts of his

613
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 11: story do you tell to kind of, you know, piece

614
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 11: the whole life together. And I thought I did a

615
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 11: really good job of being both comprehensive up to that

616
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 11: point in time, but also kind of trying to tell

617
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:34,960
Speaker 11: a story about what he thought was important, about the

618
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 11: pieces of his life that made it into his work.

619
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 5: I think that focus on Crumb's like interiority and like

620
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 5: the autobiographical aspect of his work is really where a

621
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 5: lot of my struggles with this film came from. And

622
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 5: I know that's like kind of contradictory to the focus

623
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 5: of this film, But like that interiority came cross as

624
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 5: so self centered in without any generosity to anyone or

625
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 5: around him, and including his brothers, you know. There he

626
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:08,160
Speaker 5: just felt like such a mean individual, you know, and

627
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 5: spending that time in his head and his thoughts, Like

628
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 5: that scene where he's drawing the women from his from

629
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 5: his high school, like yeah, it's cool to see like

630
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 5: the actual pen on the paper and that coming across.

631
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 5: But the way he's talking about them, and throughout the film,

632
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 5: the way he talks about women is ugly and just

633
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 5: like not even just women, like anyone who he just

634
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 5: like looks down on so many people, on everyone around

635
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 5: him and even like his brothers. When he's like talking

636
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:40,239
Speaker 5: to Charles, he has just like this constant refrain of

637
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 5: nervous laughter, like he's amus. It came across to me

638
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 5: like he was amused at watching Charles like flounder on

639
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 5: screen or on camera, because they did have this very

640
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 5: competitive relationship. And like right at the top of the film,

641
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 5: we have a phone call of him, you know, asking

642
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 5: if he can bring a camera to you know, film Charles,

643
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 5: and it's like, no, he doesn't want that, And then

644
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 5: a few scenes later it's happening, and it just like

645
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 5: it gives you the sense right up top that like

646
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 5: this isn't something that anyone is getting anything positive out

647
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 5: of other than Robert, And I guess why GoF who

648
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 5: like got good footage out of it, but he Robert

649
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:21,000
Speaker 5: just seems to like take a perverse pleasure in other

650
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 5: people's discomfort, which is like very I think central to

651
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 5: his work, but again difficult to watch.

652
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 8: It feels like a defense mechanism a lot of a

653
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 8: lot of times with him, and you know, and it

654
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 8: shows manifests itself in the way that you describe, and

655
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 8: I think it also manifests itself as a way of

656
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 8: to deflect criticism and what other people have to say

657
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 8: about his work. I mean, he doesn't, you know, I

658
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 8: mean there is some of his work elicits an incredibly

659
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 8: strong negative reaction, and I think he's seems to be

660
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 8: so accustomed to it that it just bounces off him,

661
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 8: like like you could say the worst thing to him

662
00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 8: about about how do you know gustingly misogynist or racist's

663
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 8: work is or some particular work is, and he's weirdly serene.

664
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 5: Or unwilling to even engage with the question.

665
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 11: Yeah, and also to engage with like you know, as

666
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,239
Speaker 11: you mentioned Genevieve, to engage with the people around him

667
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 11: at all. Like there's also that scene where you know, he's,

668
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 11: I guess at a comic bookshop and he's sketching and

669
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 11: people are trying to talk to him about his work

670
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 11: if he doesn't have doesn't really want to say anything

671
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 11: to them, doesn't really want to acknowledge you know, their

672
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 11: fans who are there to see him, and he doesn't

673
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 11: really seem to you know, react to that in any way.

674
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 6: And I think it's important that's early on because it

675
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 6: kind of establishes just who this person is. And and uh,

676
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 6: you know, I think you it also kind of stylish

677
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 6: you kind of as the fan talking to him, kind

678
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 6: of learned you kind of had to engage him on

679
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 6: his own terms. I mean, he doesn't shut the conversation down.

680
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 6: He just you know, doesn't want to sign his autographed

681
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 6: doesn't want to talk about what he wants to talk about.

682
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:57,240
Speaker 6: I imagine, you know, it's frustrating. It is. I think

683
00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 6: that is kind of the art Crome experience. I think

684
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 6: I think you know, you know, you know where you're

685
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 6: going to get. I mean, what I find refreshing is

686
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,719
Speaker 6: the wrong word. But but he's definitely someone without any

687
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 6: any facades. He's he's who he is.

688
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:16,240
Speaker 8: It struck me as something that something that Robert Altman

689
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 8: would say about his work. And Noel is also a

690
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:21,359
Speaker 8: Robert Altman expert, so maybe I got this quote wrong,

691
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 8: but I remember rober Altman saying something to the effect

692
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 8: that he likes to read reviews of his work so

693
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 8: he can know what he did, you know.

694
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 3: And it's like, I feel like.

695
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:34,360
Speaker 8: That's kind of Crumb's approach too, And I don't know

696
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 8: if he is even interested in hearing and knowing what

697
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:40,400
Speaker 8: he did. I think he's just follows his impulse and

698
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 8: is completely unapologetic about it and unreflective about it.

699
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:46,239
Speaker 11: Yeah, No, I think that's true. I mean, I don't

700
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:48,920
Speaker 11: think he cares what critics say or is like, you know,

701
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 11: looking for palidation. I think he's just doing what he

702
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 11: does and just so happened that what he was doing

703
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 11: was able to you know, to sell and so he

704
00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 11: could actually have this very good life where he could

705
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 11: live in this you know, countryside in California with his

706
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 11: wife and his daughter and then moved to France. By

707
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 11: selling a bunch of artwork. And you know, I mean,

708
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:07,799
Speaker 11: I guess it kind of depends upon how you look

709
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 11: at what he was doing. And maybe that's kind of

710
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:12,799
Speaker 11: fundamental to me to whether the film itself is worthwhile

711
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:15,840
Speaker 11: is whether you think that what he was doing was worthwhile.

712
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:19,239
Speaker 11: And it depends upon how you frame this as was

713
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:23,440
Speaker 11: he making popular culture? Was he making comics in the

714
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 11: same sense that Marvel was making comics in the same

715
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 11: sense that you know, people make television or make movies,

716
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 11: or was he making comics in the same way that

717
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 11: someone might do a painting, some kind of piece of

718
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 11: you know, grotesque fine art that would hang in a museum.

719
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 11: And I think if you perhaps, well, I say, to

720
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:45,279
Speaker 11: be honest, I was I was gonna mispronounce it was

721
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:48,320
Speaker 11: my fear, so I didn't say it, but I was

722
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 11: gonna say Brugal. Yeah, yeah, anyway, but yes, exactly. So,

723
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 11: So you know, how he what you think about his

724
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 11: work and the tradition that he belongs to, you know,

725
00:35:57,680 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 11: may have some effect on whether you think of what

726
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 11: he's doing his worthwhile.

727
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 6: I think also maybe in some ways the work is

728
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 6: done a disservice by knowing more about Crumb, because if

729
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 6: you just saw this flood of racist massages and images,

730
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 6: you could say this is a depiction of the underbelly

731
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 6: of the American culture, you know, artist depiction of that.

732
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 6: And we have like this you know, perverse little weirdo.

733
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:23,759
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, like who can't who can't explain it? Like

734
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:26,920
Speaker 5: that that scene where he's talking about the N word

735
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:30,799
Speaker 5: hearts strip, you know, and talking about how it just

736
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 5: like kind of came. Was that one of his LSD

737
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:37,439
Speaker 5: and induced ones. I think, I don't know, I lost track,

738
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:40,719
Speaker 5: but you know, he's kind of asked to engage with

739
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 5: the you know, the criticisms of it, and he just falters,

740
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 5: like he Whether he's unwilling or unable to talk about

741
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 5: his work that way is kind of unclear. But I

742
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:54,880
Speaker 5: also real quick want to push back a little on

743
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:59,920
Speaker 5: the idea that like he wasn't looking for validation, because

744
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:02,880
Speaker 5: I keep thinking of that scene at the art gallery

745
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:07,319
Speaker 5: when he's standing there listening to people talk about how

746
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:10,040
Speaker 5: great he is, like with that little smile on his face,

747
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 5: you know. And yeah, and I think that Crumb did

748
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:20,400
Speaker 5: enjoy receiving positive validation for you know, this brain vomit.

749
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 5: That he very memorably like translated to pen to paper,

750
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 5: you know, but when it comes to any sort of

751
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 5: negative feedback, then it's just like it's just him, you know.

752
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:34,400
Speaker 5: You can't really explain it or talk about it because

753
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 5: it's just his, his it on the page, you know.

754
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 5: So that tension, I think kind of really really rubbed

755
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:45,440
Speaker 5: me the wrong way. The sort of happily taking positive

756
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:51,879
Speaker 5: adulation but not really even considering, you know, critical feedback

757
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:54,279
Speaker 5: as something he can engage with.

758
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 8: One point of view that I think is important to

759
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 8: talk about, you know, and with regard to the criticism too,

760
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:02,879
Speaker 8: is Terry's Wygoff's like what is his? You know, because

761
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:05,880
Speaker 8: he's the one making this documentary. He's the one choosing

762
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 8: what subjects to include, and of course he includes the

763
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 8: voices of of of critics and of people who are

764
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 8: currently and formerly a part of Crumb's life, and he

765
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 8: has made a film that I would say would be

766
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 8: pretty uncomfortable for Crumb himself to watch. I think, Noel

767
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:27,400
Speaker 8: you asked Zwygoff about this in an interview, and I

768
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 8: think Zwygoff was saying that Crumb was pretty unsettled by

769
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:34,839
Speaker 8: the film. So how would you define his point of view,

770
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:39,239
Speaker 8: and I'm curious about the perspective about his incorporation of

771
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 8: critics and how you think that kind of works in

772
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:43,320
Speaker 8: the film's favor.

773
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:46,239
Speaker 11: Yeah, it definitely works in the film's favor. I think

774
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:48,160
Speaker 11: if he had made this film and had not included say,

775
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:51,320
Speaker 11: Trina Robbins and her pushback, which I think is very

776
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:53,759
Speaker 11: you know, she is not made fun of. She is

777
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:56,879
Speaker 11: not put in the film as a shrill voice. She's

778
00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:00,160
Speaker 11: not like you know, the that Simpsons, you know, with

779
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 11: the Marge Squirrel, you know, coming in to say, you know,

780
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 11: to complain about the violent cartoons. No, I think I

781
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 11: think that she has given, you know, a platform to

782
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:11,000
Speaker 11: explain her objections, and she explains them very well. I

783
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:13,399
Speaker 11: will say, having interviews by Koff that he himself does

784
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:16,920
Speaker 11: not have those objections at all, at least not want

785
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 11: to interviewed him in nineteen ninety five or whatever that

786
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:23,359
Speaker 11: he did not you know, he finds Crumb's work fascinating

787
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:26,320
Speaker 11: and you know, often very funny, and is not bothered

788
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 11: by the by the violence, you know, and the misogyny

789
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 11: any of that kind of stuff. You know. So I

790
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:35,319
Speaker 11: guess good for him for including you know, the the

791
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:37,440
Speaker 11: other voices, because without that, I think you would have

792
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 11: a film where you were like, well, now wait a minute,

793
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:42,280
Speaker 11: you know, and I think it's I think we talk about,

794
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:45,439
Speaker 11: you know, the critesquary of a lot of his work,

795
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:48,399
Speaker 11: and that's important, but I think the film also makes

796
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:51,360
Speaker 11: it clear that he has he has a range. The

797
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:53,360
Speaker 11: film isn't you know, isn't just about the work he

798
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 11: does that is repellent. It's also about the work he

799
00:39:55,520 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 11: does that is silly and satirical and you know, and beauty.

800
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 11: I think at times as well.

801
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:05,240
Speaker 6: I love his portraits of old blues artists and jazz artists.

802
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 6: Those are just really just you know, it seems like

803
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:11,800
Speaker 6: terrific ways to honor these people and and done with

804
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 6: so much respect.

805
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,360
Speaker 11: Yeah, and there's that beautiful sequence where they illustrate his

806
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 11: classic cartoon that was showing America progressing from you know,

807
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 11: that was beautiful, Yeah, Burden Fields to you know, to

808
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:25,919
Speaker 11: power Lines. So you know, I mean there is there's

809
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:27,880
Speaker 11: a lot of you know, range to his work. And

810
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:30,920
Speaker 11: if his work had just been nothing but the negative stuff,

811
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:32,920
Speaker 11: then again I think you would have to question, well,

812
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 11: why is this person having a filmmatee about him? So

813
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 11: you know, I guess the good thing is that he

814
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:40,799
Speaker 11: that swag Off did not shy away from the controversial

815
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:42,040
Speaker 11: work or the controversy.

816
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:45,439
Speaker 8: He's kind of an interesting I mean, maybe the only

817
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 8: space he could be in to make to even make

818
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 8: this movie. Somebody who is familiar enough with close enough

819
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:54,239
Speaker 8: with with with with Crumb and appreciative enough of his

820
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 8: work to get the access that nobody else could have.

821
00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:00,680
Speaker 8: But also, you know, as as a person is at

822
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:04,319
Speaker 8: least one stop removed, at least can can say, at

823
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:09,000
Speaker 8: least can say that he needs to have other voices

824
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:12,080
Speaker 8: in this film that can kind of give a different

825
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 8: perspective on Crumb's work than we're getting from the man himself. Well,

826
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 8: I'm curious to ask you, you know, because you you

827
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,839
Speaker 8: sort of promised this at the open you know, you've

828
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:25,760
Speaker 8: taught this to students and said they had an interesting

829
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:26,440
Speaker 8: reaction to it.

830
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 3: What was that like?

831
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:30,640
Speaker 11: Yeah, so I taught a comic book class where I,

832
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:33,440
Speaker 11: you know, showed a why I showed the wide variety

833
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:37,719
Speaker 11: of work from from newspaper comics, strips to superhero comics,

834
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 11: to underground comics and alternative comics, and so there was

835
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 11: you have to you have to include Crumb. It's part

836
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 11: of the whole pivot point in comic books from the

837
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:48,279
Speaker 11: late sixties onward. And I thought that it would be

838
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:51,640
Speaker 11: a good, you know, idea to show the documentary over

839
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 11: two class periods. And after showing the first half in

840
00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 11: class period number one, they were about four or five

841
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:03,440
Speaker 11: students who did not return for this second.

842
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 3: To the class or for the seated thinking back to.

843
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 11: The class for the rest of the semester, but they

844
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:09,520
Speaker 11: didn't come back for part two of the movie, and

845
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 11: they said that they were too offended by part one, okay,

846
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 11: And you know, at the time, it would kind of

847
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:16,239
Speaker 11: shattered me because it didn't even occur to me that

848
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:18,799
Speaker 11: people would be bothered by it. Now, of course, looking

849
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 11: back on it, what was I thinking. I mean, obviously

850
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:23,120
Speaker 11: people are going to be you know, that's kind of

851
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:25,040
Speaker 11: one of the points of the documentary is to really

852
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:27,719
Speaker 11: kind of unnerve people. And these kids were like, you know,

853
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:30,719
Speaker 11: eighteen nineteen years old, you know, so I should have

854
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:32,840
Speaker 11: I should have been more thoughtful about it. And nowadays

855
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:34,760
Speaker 11: they would be like, I would have given a million

856
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:37,839
Speaker 11: content one right, you know, and probably wouldn't have shown

857
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 11: them at all. Quite frankly, but certainly at the time

858
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:41,480
Speaker 11: it was like, you know, it was a it was

859
00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:42,600
Speaker 11: an eye opening experience for.

860
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 8: Me, and it was a film that had real critical

861
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:47,839
Speaker 8: and commercial life. I mean, this was a thing in

862
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 8: nineteen ninety four.

863
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:52,320
Speaker 5: For those of you who kind of experienced it in

864
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:57,919
Speaker 5: real time. How much discussion was there around sort of

865
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 5: the ethics I guess, yeah, Charles and Max into this film.

866
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:05,080
Speaker 11: I'm glad you brought that up, and I was gonna

867
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:07,440
Speaker 11: mention that earlier. There was quite a lot of discussion

868
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:10,520
Speaker 11: actually at the time as to whether Charles in particular

869
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 11: was really competent enough to have agreed to have been filmed,

870
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 11: or whether that whether he was kind of coerced into appearing,

871
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:21,920
Speaker 11: and whether whether the film is kind of like gawking

872
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 11: at somebody who was clearly mentally ill. And you know,

873
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:26,800
Speaker 11: the whole story of Charles v.

874
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:27,320
Speaker 6: Max.

875
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 11: You know, both of them had some very very dark

876
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:32,799
Speaker 11: chapters in their lives, so the film kind of, you know,

877
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:36,719
Speaker 11: brushes past, but maybe a little too quickly. Neither of

878
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 11: them were beyond being mentally ill. They you know, they

879
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:42,919
Speaker 11: hurt people, you know, in their lives, and that film

880
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:45,400
Speaker 11: didn't really gate into that too much. So there was

881
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 11: a lot of discussion at the time about whether it's

882
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 11: ethical to kind of put them on film. Those are

883
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:53,800
Speaker 11: again valid questions to have. I guess the question that

884
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:56,440
Speaker 11: becomes is ethical for us, you know to watch it

885
00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 11: now it's too late. Now, you know, the the film

886
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:00,960
Speaker 11: is out there, and I think or some value in

887
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:04,440
Speaker 11: seeing you know, how these three brothers each reacted to,

888
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:07,920
Speaker 11: you know, the life that they led. And also the

889
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 11: absence of the two sisters is also this remarkabant of

890
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 11: the time too.

891
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think the absence of crucial voices is something

892
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:16,880
Speaker 5: that will maybe come up as a connection in the

893
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 5: second half.

894
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:22,320
Speaker 8: So yes, yeah, that is definitely one sticking point people

895
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:25,560
Speaker 8: have with the with the Boordain for sure.

896
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:28,080
Speaker 6: Well, there is there's a little bit of context on

897
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 6: the Criterion Blu ray, which features an audio commentary, actually

898
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 6: a couple of audio commentaries, but one of his zwag Off,

899
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 6: talking to Ebert, and he talked about how one of

900
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 6: Crumb's sisters was a is her term, a militant lesbian

901
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:47,919
Speaker 6: and would not allow any men in her house, much

902
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 6: less the film crew, but except for the son that

903
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:54,279
Speaker 6: she and her partner were raising. And yeah, this is

904
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:56,200
Speaker 6: why move suggested that that he had his the son

905
00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:58,279
Speaker 6: had his own stories to tell of life in that

906
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 6: branch of the Crumb family, but that they are not

907
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:01,760
Speaker 6: in this film.

908
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:06,279
Speaker 3: Though. Wow, yeah, that's interesting. I hear.

909
00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:10,239
Speaker 8: That's a really excellent commentary track here. That conversation with.

910
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:13,759
Speaker 6: Ibert Ivertt was a great commentary guy.

911
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:16,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, he really was, He really was. He a few.

912
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:22,839
Speaker 8: Well, we have plenty of discussion to do with documentary

913
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:29,319
Speaker 8: ethics and missing characters from these documentaries, so we'll get

914
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:33,440
Speaker 8: hit that in our next episode when we talk about Roadrunner,

915
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 8: but for now we'll move on to feedback.

916
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:45,240
Speaker 4: This episode is brought to you by Redfinn. You're listening

917
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:49,600
Speaker 4: to a podcast, which means you're probably multitasking, maybe even

918
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:53,279
Speaker 4: scrolling home listings on Redfin, saving homes without expecting to

919
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:56,840
Speaker 4: get them. But Redfin isn't just built for endless browsing.

920
00:45:57,200 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 4: It's built to help you find and own a home

921
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:02,879
Speaker 4: with agents who closed twice as many deals. When you

922
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:05,879
Speaker 4: find the one, you've got a real shot at getting it.

923
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:13,000
Speaker 4: Get started at redfin dot com Own the dream.

924
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:17,320
Speaker 8: Now it's time for feedback, where we answer any questions

925
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 8: and respond to any comments about our episodes. Or anything

926
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:22,400
Speaker 8: else in the world of film. This week, we have

927
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:25,640
Speaker 8: anything else in the world of film type voicemail from

928
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:28,360
Speaker 8: Bryce in Toronto, who wonders if we have a film

929
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:30,879
Speaker 8: that we considered an overlooked masterpiece.

930
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 10: Bryce is Bryce from Toronto, a big fan of the

931
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:35,640
Speaker 10: show and.

932
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:39,719
Speaker 13: Semi frequent caller. I had a question for you. I

933
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:41,759
Speaker 13: was listening to you guys talk about The Graduate a

934
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:45,160
Speaker 13: week or two ago, and in my own personal.

935
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:47,719
Speaker 10: Opinion, there is a movie from around that era, I think,

936
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:51,200
Speaker 10: released in nineteen sixty eight, called The Swimmer with Burt Lancaster,

937
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:55,279
Speaker 10: which I'm sure most centophiles have heard of, perhaps some

938
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:58,759
Speaker 10: have seen, and in my own personal opinion, it is

939
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:03,879
Speaker 10: just a sh entering masterpiece, a beautiful piece of allegory,

940
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:09,319
Speaker 10: possibly Lancaster's best performance, and it has a really fascinating

941
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:11,840
Speaker 10: story behind it. And I think that when you watch

942
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:16,040
Speaker 10: it today, removed from that context decades ago, in my

943
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:19,360
Speaker 10: own personal opinion, it's an undisputed masterpiece and we should

944
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:21,600
Speaker 10: be talking about it, and it is as important to

945
00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:23,000
Speaker 10: the era as The Graduate was.

946
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:26,839
Speaker 13: So the question is, could each of you share what

947
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:29,960
Speaker 13: is a film that meant a great deal to you

948
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:33,640
Speaker 13: and which you on some level cannot believe the world

949
00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:37,880
Speaker 13: has not embraced and which didn't make it, not because

950
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:40,680
Speaker 13: the quality wasn't there on the screen, but because of

951
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:45,120
Speaker 13: other reasons outside of the film's control. Thanks Jang by.

952
00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:46,360
Speaker 3: Genevieve, what about you?

953
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:50,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I hesitate to like plant my flag

954
00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:55,640
Speaker 5: that this is like undisputed masterpiece, overlooked by history, especially

955
00:47:55,640 --> 00:48:00,839
Speaker 5: in comparison to the rest of this filmmaker's work. But

956
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:04,680
Speaker 5: thinking in terms of films that you know, weren't necessarily

957
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:08,960
Speaker 5: like understood or embraced in their era, but that continue

958
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:12,719
Speaker 5: to speak to history. I thought of Billy Wilder's Ace

959
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:14,799
Speaker 5: in the Hole, which is a film that I think

960
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:18,279
Speaker 5: anyone you know adjacent to the field of journalism has

961
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:23,880
Speaker 5: probably experienced at some point in their life. But you know,

962
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:28,319
Speaker 5: in terms of Billy Wilder's career, was his first kind

963
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:32,120
Speaker 5: of big commercial and critical flop. We did it as

964
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:34,640
Speaker 5: a movie of the Week at the Dissolve. So I

965
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:37,600
Speaker 5: think we've all kind of talked about Ace in the

966
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:41,200
Speaker 5: Hole quite a bit in print, but I think it

967
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:44,720
Speaker 5: was it was the first thing that came to mind

968
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:47,880
Speaker 5: for me here just in the context of a filmmaker

969
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:50,719
Speaker 5: who has so many films under his belt that we

970
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 5: do consider masterpieces, and this one tends, I think, to

971
00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:59,359
Speaker 5: get kind of passed over in the discussion because it

972
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:02,600
Speaker 5: was a bit of an anomaly just in terms of

973
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:05,880
Speaker 5: his career arc at the time, and because it is

974
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:10,239
Speaker 5: such a cynical film, and but one that I think

975
00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:16,040
Speaker 5: continues has continued resonance, maybe even more so as time

976
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 5: goes on and is our relationship with the media ecosystem

977
00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:24,120
Speaker 5: becomes ever more complicated. I think there's a lot in

978
00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:28,280
Speaker 5: the film to kind of still unpack all these decades later.

979
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:30,359
Speaker 5: So that's my Picks in the Hole.

980
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:32,000
Speaker 8: It's a good I mean, that's a good one. And

981
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:34,880
Speaker 8: because I think when you Billy Wiler's name comes up,

982
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:37,600
Speaker 8: it's like it's double indemnity, It's Sunset Boulevard.

983
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:39,200
Speaker 3: You know, it sound like it hot.

984
00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:42,680
Speaker 8: But this is a film that should be held at

985
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:45,960
Speaker 8: that level of esteem, and it certainly was not at

986
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:47,160
Speaker 8: the time it was called it.

987
00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:49,480
Speaker 3: Do they change it to the Big Carnival? And then,

988
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:50,320
Speaker 3: because I think.

989
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:53,800
Speaker 5: It was I in the Hole least is a Big Carnival.

990
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:57,200
Speaker 5: But I don't know when it went back as.

991
00:49:57,120 --> 00:50:00,480
Speaker 8: The Whole about a thousand times cooler a title than

992
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:03,320
Speaker 8: the big Carnival Keith, What about yourself?

993
00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:06,720
Speaker 6: Mine will come into no surprise as to anyone who's

994
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:08,680
Speaker 6: been to my house, which I don't think is a

995
00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:13,359
Speaker 6: lot of our listeners actually, in which hangs a very

996
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:15,759
Speaker 6: large poster of a film called Petulia, directed by Richard

997
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:19,000
Speaker 6: Richard Lester, which is not in any way a forgotten

998
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 6: or necessarily even neglected film, and it's it's held in

999
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 6: high esteem, and you know, received very fine reviews when

1000
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:29,360
Speaker 6: it was released, but I don't not necessarily is quite

1001
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:33,479
Speaker 6: the canonical work that I feel it should be. Is Lester,

1002
00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:36,320
Speaker 6: of course, is full forever be best known for directing

1003
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:39,279
Speaker 6: A Hard Day's Night and Help and and this was

1004
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 6: a film he made after that, and it's, uh, you know,

1005
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:45,080
Speaker 6: a far more serious film in in many ways, but

1006
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:48,200
Speaker 6: a lot of the sort of innovations that you see

1007
00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:50,560
Speaker 6: and in those films are are at it as well.

1008
00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:55,120
Speaker 6: It's it's the story of George Scott plays a divorcing

1009
00:50:55,520 --> 00:51:01,640
Speaker 6: San Francisco surgeon who is kind of set upon and

1010
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:05,520
Speaker 6: take taken into the fold of a self described kook,

1011
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:08,520
Speaker 6: the Petulia of the title, played by Julie Christie, and

1012
00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:12,840
Speaker 6: it's it is filmed in nineteen you know, film to

1013
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:15,160
Speaker 6: nineteen sixty seven, at least nineteen sixty eight. It is

1014
00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:18,920
Speaker 6: captured San Francisco of that era, the Robert Crumb San Francisco.

1015
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:21,520
Speaker 6: You can even say, you know, what kind of preserves

1016
00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:23,600
Speaker 6: it if and a lot of the bands of the era,

1017
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:27,480
Speaker 6: or from Danis Jopolin Grateful Debt or are featured in it,

1018
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:31,240
Speaker 6: And if it sounds like sort of a artifact of

1019
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:36,120
Speaker 6: the hippie moment in which a kind of you know,

1020
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:40,840
Speaker 6: the liberated younger woman gets an older guy to loosen

1021
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:44,120
Speaker 6: up and enjoy life, it is exactly not that. It

1022
00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:48,120
Speaker 6: is a very complicated film that begins as as just

1023
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:51,560
Speaker 6: said and picks up new folds of new dimensions as

1024
00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:54,920
Speaker 6: it goes along. It is, you know, on a technical end,

1025
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:57,960
Speaker 6: is I think it's Nicholas Road's last film as a cinematographer.

1026
00:51:58,200 --> 00:52:01,520
Speaker 6: It's a beautiful features a great John Barry score. But

1027
00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:04,200
Speaker 6: the real trip to it is the editing, which is

1028
00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:08,120
Speaker 6: precise and evoc you know, and and really kind of

1029
00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:11,080
Speaker 6: emotionally affecting uh in ways you don't normally see. It's

1030
00:52:11,080 --> 00:52:13,839
Speaker 6: a huge influence on Steven Soderbergh, and it's where Uh,

1031
00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:16,000
Speaker 6: you know, I don't think much of the Soderberg philmography

1032
00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:18,239
Speaker 6: as we know it would exist without this movie. And

1033
00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:19,680
Speaker 6: that's one reason I'll watch it, But I mean the

1034
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:21,839
Speaker 6: main reason to watch it. It's a great movie, and

1035
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:24,520
Speaker 6: it gets me. It gets me every time I see it.

1036
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:28,720
Speaker 6: And and uh, I'll always boost for for for Beetulia

1037
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:32,240
Speaker 6: and a couple other luster films I think are are underseen,

1038
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:34,680
Speaker 6: but I'll keep those in my I'll keep those as

1039
00:52:34,719 --> 00:52:36,239
Speaker 6: an ace in the hole, you might for.

1040
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:40,480
Speaker 3: Future episodes and how to get it neck?

1041
00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:42,880
Speaker 6: Yeah, the neck was the neck was? Was it a

1042
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:45,719
Speaker 6: pounder or whatever? I mean? It was well known in

1043
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:49,880
Speaker 6: its day, but perhaps not a scene now as as

1044
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:50,799
Speaker 6: often as it ought to be.

1045
00:52:51,160 --> 00:52:53,120
Speaker 11: So Keith I told that story on Twitter recently that

1046
00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:56,279
Speaker 11: I saw Petulia thinking that I'd already seen it because

1047
00:52:56,320 --> 00:52:59,640
Speaker 11: I confused it with Darling. Sure, yeah, and I was

1048
00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:01,480
Speaker 11: like with in five minutes, I was like, no, I've

1049
00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:03,880
Speaker 11: not seen this film. I would know if I had

1050
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:06,760
Speaker 11: seen this film. And I swear I saw this film

1051
00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:09,000
Speaker 11: for the first time. And it's one of the rare

1052
00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:12,280
Speaker 11: cases where I gave it five stars on Letterbox because

1053
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:14,640
Speaker 11: it absolutely blew me away. Usually I'm a little bit

1054
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:17,080
Speaker 11: more cautious with my first viewing four and a half

1055
00:53:17,200 --> 00:53:20,040
Speaker 11: maybe a minute pease, we'll see and then later. But

1056
00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:21,640
Speaker 11: that was my first view and I gave it five stars.

1057
00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:24,840
Speaker 11: I bring that up because I gave five stars on

1058
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:28,200
Speaker 11: letterboxed recently to a film that I had seen many

1059
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:31,200
Speaker 11: times and a friend of ours questioned me about it

1060
00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:34,239
Speaker 11: on Twitter. And it's a little film called Ronan by

1061
00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:36,960
Speaker 11: John Frankenheimer, and so that would be my choice for

1062
00:53:37,080 --> 00:53:41,640
Speaker 11: my delected masterpiece. It was not, you know, a box

1063
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:44,040
Speaker 11: office bust. It did a modest box office and it

1064
00:53:44,120 --> 00:53:46,320
Speaker 11: had a long life, I think as a movie for

1065
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:49,880
Speaker 11: guys who like movies on tn T or TBS wherever

1066
00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:55,439
Speaker 11: that used to play. But John Frankenheimer action film, magnificent

1067
00:53:55,560 --> 00:53:59,759
Speaker 11: European setting, French locations, Robert de Niro as the leader

1068
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:03,040
Speaker 11: of a crew of criminals, lots of double crosses, and

1069
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:07,880
Speaker 11: a script uncredited but written by David Mammot with just

1070
00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:12,719
Speaker 11: some really flavorful David Mammont dialogue. And I can watch

1071
00:54:12,719 --> 00:54:15,160
Speaker 11: that movie anytime it comes on. I'll watch it all

1072
00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:16,960
Speaker 11: the way to the five star movie.

1073
00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:19,080
Speaker 3: I haven't thought about that one in a while.

1074
00:54:19,239 --> 00:54:21,879
Speaker 8: Like, yeah, that is a that's a great choice if

1075
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:25,120
Speaker 8: you're thinking of Frankenheimer usually stuck in that in the

1076
00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:27,759
Speaker 8: sixties when he could just do no wrong, where every

1077
00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:29,480
Speaker 8: single film he did was fantastic.

1078
00:54:30,239 --> 00:54:32,040
Speaker 6: Yeah. I mean there's a lot of these films I

1079
00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:34,440
Speaker 6: have not seen, but if you look at this phimography,

1080
00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:36,640
Speaker 6: it's a burst of life, like a late career burst

1081
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:38,920
Speaker 6: in life. I mean it's sandwich between the Allen and

1082
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:42,320
Speaker 6: Doctor Moreau, which of course is MPAs and Reindeer Games,

1083
00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:46,240
Speaker 6: which is maybe had some defenders I didn't care when fantastic.

1084
00:54:46,239 --> 00:54:48,960
Speaker 6: But I mean the eighties were you know, I mean,

1085
00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:53,080
Speaker 6: nineteen seventy nine was Prophecy, which was a delightfully looney movie,

1086
00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:57,600
Speaker 6: but not on quite the level of other Pregnhimmer films.

1087
00:54:57,600 --> 00:55:00,399
Speaker 6: But in between you get things like Dead Bang, Yeah,

1088
00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:02,640
Speaker 6: Croft Covenant, I mean as something that I haven't seen,

1089
00:55:02,680 --> 00:55:04,400
Speaker 6: but you know, it kind of came out of it

1090
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:06,600
Speaker 6: was unexpected masterpiece.

1091
00:55:06,600 --> 00:55:11,080
Speaker 8: I would say, for sure, I guess my choice would

1092
00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:15,040
Speaker 8: be the uh, the Albert Brooks film Modern Romance from

1093
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:18,799
Speaker 8: nineteen eighty one. Of course, I always like to talk

1094
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:20,800
Speaker 8: about Albert Brooks, but I think this, I think among

1095
00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:24,600
Speaker 8: the Alber Brooks Films. It's it's uh, you know, not

1096
00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:28,200
Speaker 8: as recognized as it should be. One person who did

1097
00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:31,960
Speaker 8: recognize it as a masterpiece at the time was Stanley Kubrick,

1098
00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:36,360
Speaker 8: who call who put in a surprise phone call to

1099
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:39,799
Speaker 8: Albert Brooks and asked him, like, how did you do it?

1100
00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:43,040
Speaker 8: How did you make this, which Albert books was completely

1101
00:55:43,080 --> 00:55:44,919
Speaker 8: full mixed by. It's like, you're the guy who made

1102
00:55:45,080 --> 00:55:47,640
Speaker 8: you know, you know, two thousand and one, and you're

1103
00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:51,000
Speaker 8: asking me how I made this movie. But mount Romance

1104
00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:54,160
Speaker 8: is so unique to me as kind of an sort

1105
00:55:54,160 --> 00:55:58,040
Speaker 8: of the ultimate anti romantic comedy about it's about a

1106
00:55:58,120 --> 00:56:02,560
Speaker 8: relationship that is begins with a couple breaking up. Albert

1107
00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:06,480
Speaker 8: Brooks and Catherine Harold are a couple that they break

1108
00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:08,400
Speaker 8: up in the begin the very beginning of the movie,

1109
00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:10,640
Speaker 8: and they and then the and then they kind of, uh,

1110
00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:12,960
Speaker 8: you know, get back together and break up again, and

1111
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:18,200
Speaker 8: it's it's a it's a relationship that is extraordinarily unhealthy,

1112
00:56:18,640 --> 00:56:24,560
Speaker 8: that is sustained by jealousy and need and a lot

1113
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:28,719
Speaker 8: of the uglier sides of at least Brooks's personality. And

1114
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:30,880
Speaker 8: it was another it was just a prime example of

1115
00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:35,400
Speaker 8: Albert Books as a writer, director, willing to make himself

1116
00:56:36,080 --> 00:56:40,640
Speaker 8: out as a as a movie character, to be unsympathetic

1117
00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:45,520
Speaker 8: and troubled and and and full of obsessions that were

1118
00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:47,520
Speaker 8: that did not put him in a great light. And

1119
00:56:47,560 --> 00:56:50,560
Speaker 8: to me, it's just it's uncompromising and true. It's it's

1120
00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:53,920
Speaker 8: a film that I compared once in an essay for

1121
00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:58,319
Speaker 8: Musings to Raging Bull, and I felt like the psychology

1122
00:56:58,600 --> 00:57:01,960
Speaker 8: between his character and j. Glamata and Raging Bowl was

1123
00:57:02,040 --> 00:57:04,840
Speaker 8: not that far removed. They just have had different ways

1124
00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:07,840
Speaker 8: of expressing their aggression. But at the same time, it

1125
00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:10,920
Speaker 8: is a film that is extraordinarily funny. He's an editor

1126
00:57:11,360 --> 00:57:13,800
Speaker 8: in the movie, and so it's got a lot of stuff,

1127
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:16,760
Speaker 8: a lot of footage of him editing a science fiction

1128
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:19,600
Speaker 8: film that that James L. Brooks playing the director has

1129
00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:23,760
Speaker 8: directed with starring George Kennedy, and so it's got some

1130
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:32,680
Speaker 8: fun fully yes, So yeah, in any case, it's a

1131
00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:38,040
Speaker 8: it's a great film, and it's formally really disciplined and unusual,

1132
00:57:38,240 --> 00:57:41,160
Speaker 8: and it's just it's it's like I think that is

1133
00:57:41,360 --> 00:57:44,280
Speaker 8: purest I think it's his best film. Really, it's the

1134
00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:46,120
Speaker 8: film of his that I think is the purest and

1135
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:49,480
Speaker 8: the most uncompromising. But I don't necessarily think it's the

1136
00:57:49,520 --> 00:57:51,000
Speaker 8: go to film for a lot of people. I think

1137
00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:54,080
Speaker 8: that tends to be more Lost in America or defending

1138
00:57:54,120 --> 00:57:55,919
Speaker 8: your life, so that would be my pick.

1139
00:57:56,280 --> 00:57:59,800
Speaker 5: This is the backdoor pilot for Scott's Albert Brooks spinoff

1140
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:02,320
Speaker 5: podcast that he's clearly dying to do.

1141
00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:04,000
Speaker 3: That's right.

1142
00:58:04,280 --> 00:58:07,240
Speaker 8: I know I could have been really bold and made

1143
00:58:07,240 --> 00:58:09,640
Speaker 8: my choice looking for comedy of the Muslim world, but

1144
00:58:10,640 --> 00:58:12,720
Speaker 8: I can't quite go to masterpiece level on that.

1145
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:15,320
Speaker 3: But I do think it's quite good, underrated, very underrated.

1146
00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:18,040
Speaker 8: So we always appreciate when our listeners share their thoughts

1147
00:58:18,080 --> 00:58:20,560
Speaker 8: and their recommendations. If you feel so inclined, we can

1148
00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:23,200
Speaker 8: feature your response on a future episode. To reach us,

1149
00:58:23,240 --> 00:58:25,480
Speaker 8: you can leave a short voicemail at seven seven three

1150
00:58:25,840 --> 00:58:28,800
Speaker 8: two three four nine seven three zero or email us

1151
00:58:28,840 --> 00:58:36,920
Speaker 8: at comments at next pictureshow dot net. That's it for

1152
00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:39,480
Speaker 8: this episode of the Next Picture Show. In our next episode,

1153
00:58:39,480 --> 00:58:42,640
Speaker 8: we'll look at Roadrunner, a film about Anthony Bourdain, another

1154
00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:46,200
Speaker 8: documentary about a troubled rogue who became an unlikely public figure.

1155
00:58:46,680 --> 00:58:49,680
Speaker 8: Look for that episode next Tuesday. Where you can subscribe

1156
00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:52,240
Speaker 8: to the Next Picture Show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or

1157
00:58:52,240 --> 00:58:54,560
Speaker 8: your podcatcher of choice if you want to hear it

1158
00:58:54,600 --> 00:58:57,919
Speaker 8: without ads and while surrounded by extra Next Picture Show

1159
00:58:57,920 --> 00:59:01,120
Speaker 8: written in recorded content, comes upon artist on Patreon at

1160
00:59:01,120 --> 00:59:03,680
Speaker 8: Patreon dot com, plast Next Picture Show, find us at

1161
00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:05,960
Speaker 8: Next Picture Show dot net, and follow us on Twitter

1162
00:59:05,960 --> 00:59:08,240
Speaker 8: at Next Picture Pod so you'll always know when a

1163
00:59:08,280 --> 00:59:09,200
Speaker 8: new episode drops