WEBVTT - Debra Lee: What I Saw at the Cable Revolution 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:09.560 M h. Welcome to Strictly Business Varieties, weekly podcast featuring 0:00:09.600 --> 0:00:13.640 conversations with industry leaders about the business of entertainment. I'm 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:17.680 Cynthia Littleton, business editor for Variety Today. My guest in 0:00:17.720 --> 0:00:21.239 New York is Deborah Lee, former chairman and CEO of 0:00:21.320 --> 0:00:24.800 b ET Networks. Deborah had a front row seat to 0:00:24.880 --> 0:00:27.800 the explosive growth of cable television during her thirty two 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:31.520 years at b ET. After years in the trenches making 0:00:31.520 --> 0:00:33.840 her mark as a leader and as one of only 0:00:33.880 --> 0:00:37.519 a few African American female CEOs in media, She's had 0:00:37.560 --> 0:00:40.560 some time to reflect on the changing content marketplace since 0:00:40.600 --> 0:00:44.479 her retirement in two thousand eighteen. In recent months, Lee 0:00:44.560 --> 0:00:46.640 has joined the board of A T and T and 0:00:46.720 --> 0:00:50.720 become CEO of Leading Women to Fined, an invitation only 0:00:50.800 --> 0:00:55.200 conference series for women of color. In this wide ranging conversation, 0:00:55.440 --> 0:00:58.560 Lee speaks candidly about how cable missed the threat posed 0:00:58.560 --> 0:01:02.480 by streaming and the iportants of grooming and retaining executives 0:01:02.520 --> 0:01:10.200 from diverse backgrounds. Deboraly, former chairman and CEO of b 0:01:10.319 --> 0:01:13.959 ET Networks, who is now CEO of Leading Women Defined 0:01:14.000 --> 0:01:17.280 a conference series, Thank you so much for stopping by 0:01:17.360 --> 0:01:20.000 today to talk to us. Great, thank you, I'm excited 0:01:20.040 --> 0:01:22.800 to be here. Here is Debor. You have more than 0:01:22.840 --> 0:01:26.480 thirty years of experience in the trenches at the ET networks, 0:01:26.600 --> 0:01:30.920 really growing up with the cable business, which just you know, 0:01:31.080 --> 0:01:36.920 just invaluable experience undoubtedly for these chaotic and disrupted times 0:01:37.120 --> 0:01:40.560 in media now. And you left b ET about a 0:01:40.640 --> 0:01:43.480 year ago, a little over a year ago. In that 0:01:43.560 --> 0:01:45.880 time since you've now had you have a little arms 0:01:45.959 --> 0:01:49.720 length on the business. What stands out to you as 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:53.760 you think about where this industry is going? What? What 0:01:53.840 --> 0:01:56.680 do you think? What do you see as the biggest 0:01:56.960 --> 0:02:00.200 challenges that the leaders of companies that you like come, 0:02:00.360 --> 0:02:02.760 like the Channel group that you used to run, What 0:02:02.800 --> 0:02:06.080 are the biggest challenges that they have to sort of 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:08.240 sort out? Right now? There's a lot of a lot 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:10.120 of things in the air. But I would be curious 0:02:10.120 --> 0:02:13.440 to your perspective as a former CEO media CEO, what 0:02:13.600 --> 0:02:17.000 is the what are the biggest hills to climb and 0:02:17.280 --> 0:02:19.560 say the next three or five years. That's a very 0:02:19.560 --> 0:02:23.240 good question. Um, you know, what comes to mind immediately 0:02:23.280 --> 0:02:27.480 are two major challenges. Um. The first I would say 0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:33.040 is competition. There's just so much content out there. And 0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:36.840 I remember the early days of the cable industry where 0:02:37.320 --> 0:02:41.160 you know, cable systems that had twelve channels or twenty 0:02:41.200 --> 0:02:44.239 four channels, thought that that was a lot, and then 0:02:44.240 --> 0:02:46.560 we went to you know, a hundred channels and two 0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:50.840 under channels. Now we have you know, not only infinite 0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:56.519 cable channels, but also streaming services and um, all kinds 0:02:56.520 --> 0:02:59.959 of different platforms that take up a lot of time 0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:04.440 time for our viewers and consumers. UM. So I think 0:03:04.480 --> 0:03:07.680 the biggest challenges how do you break through all of that? 0:03:07.720 --> 0:03:10.720 How do you keep your audience? You know? Is it 0:03:10.800 --> 0:03:14.240 about a brand? Is about building a brand? Which you know, 0:03:14.320 --> 0:03:16.880 I spent a lot of time uh thinking about it, 0:03:16.960 --> 0:03:20.720 b et because we had a very loyal audience, um 0:03:20.880 --> 0:03:23.080 and so you know, we were able to keep that 0:03:23.160 --> 0:03:27.560 audience because of our brand. UM. But you know, is 0:03:27.600 --> 0:03:30.760 it just popular shows? You know, when when a network 0:03:30.840 --> 0:03:35.160 starts selling to Netflix, they lose the brand of the 0:03:35.240 --> 0:03:38.960 network and then it's just all about shows. Their shows 0:03:39.000 --> 0:03:43.120 can be found elsewhere, which makes it by definition, not 0:03:43.240 --> 0:03:47.160 exclusive to the network that originally. Yeah, so that opens 0:03:47.240 --> 0:03:51.240 up more opportunities for sales of content, but it also 0:03:51.600 --> 0:03:54.560 you know, leaves the consumers a little confused about what 0:03:54.640 --> 0:03:57.320 who produced this show or what am I tied to 0:03:57.400 --> 0:03:59.840 this show because of a brand or because I just 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:03.920 like the show? Um So the amount of competition keeps 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:08.160 increasing and um So that's that's really a major challenge. 0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:11.320 Whether you're in cable, whether you're a Netflix, whether you're 0:04:11.360 --> 0:04:15.440 you know, doing podcast or or any type of platform, 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:18.280 it's really how do you get the attention of the consumer? 0:04:18.839 --> 0:04:22.200 Um And I would say the second biggest challenge that 0:04:22.400 --> 0:04:24.520 you know, people don't talk about a lot, but was 0:04:24.600 --> 0:04:26.960 really a challenge for me when I was at BT 0:04:27.880 --> 0:04:34.440 is the measurement of the audience and how that translates 0:04:34.440 --> 0:04:39.360 into ratings. Uh. You know, we're still in a system where, uh, 0:04:39.440 --> 0:04:44.320 in cable, we have advertising spots and we sell those 0:04:44.360 --> 0:04:49.640 two advertisers based on a guarantee of an audience. Um 0:04:49.680 --> 0:04:52.159 And if you don't hit that guarantee, you have to 0:04:52.240 --> 0:04:55.960 give advertisers money back. So if I put on a 0:04:56.080 --> 0:04:59.200 show on Tuesday, let's say Being Mary Jane, which was 0:04:59.240 --> 0:05:03.400 one of our popular shows, and you know, my viewer says, well, 0:05:03.400 --> 0:05:06.520 I'm gonna wait till Saturday to watch it, because that's 0:05:06.560 --> 0:05:09.440 when I have more time uh, and I'm not working. 0:05:09.920 --> 0:05:13.520 Um we wouldn't get credit for that show because you 0:05:13.560 --> 0:05:16.479 have to be within a three day window to get 0:05:16.520 --> 0:05:21.240 credit for the maximum advertising. Correct. Correct. And a lot 0:05:21.279 --> 0:05:25.120 of consumers don't understand that, don't care about that. You know, 0:05:25.160 --> 0:05:28.560 it's all about convenience for them now and that means 0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:30.919 you know, watching it when you want to waiting, you 0:05:30.960 --> 0:05:34.320 can wait for you know, five episodes to pile up 0:05:34.400 --> 0:05:39.240 and then binge watch it. Um. So the rating system 0:05:39.360 --> 0:05:42.640 has not kept up with the platforms and with the 0:05:42.640 --> 0:05:48.760 way consumers watch television basically. Um So that's very frustrating 0:05:48.760 --> 0:05:51.800 because you can have a very popular show that you 0:05:51.800 --> 0:05:56.800 know everyone loves, and you know you can't meet your 0:05:56.839 --> 0:06:01.520 guarantee to advertisers. Um So, you know, it's it's been 0:06:01.560 --> 0:06:06.640 amazing to me that the measurement systems and companies haven't 0:06:06.680 --> 0:06:10.960 solved that problem. Um because it's a major issue, right 0:06:11.080 --> 0:06:13.080 And and when you were at b T you're part 0:06:13.080 --> 0:06:18.120 of a huge media conglomerate, Viacom, with you know, dozens 0:06:18.160 --> 0:06:21.320 of channels and a lot of cloud both with advertisers 0:06:21.360 --> 0:06:24.680 and sort of within the industry. And I know, over 0:06:24.720 --> 0:06:27.440 the years, people of Viacom and elsewhere have really tried 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:31.040 to kind of go at the both the multi platform 0:06:31.160 --> 0:06:34.760 measurement challenge, capturing all the viewing and also having that 0:06:34.920 --> 0:06:39.520 larger discussion with advertisers. I remember the the you know, 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:43.279 the process that led just to even extending the ratings 0:06:43.360 --> 0:06:46.159 viewing period to three days. That was you know, months 0:06:46.240 --> 0:06:49.520 of negotiations and lots of arm wrestling and lots of 0:06:49.520 --> 0:06:53.760 horse trading. Um. What what didn't you find was sort 0:06:53.760 --> 0:06:59.040 of the fundamental obstacle to coming to a better system 0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:02.919 that would allow allow networks to capture more viewing? Was 0:07:02.960 --> 0:07:09.359 it just the entrenched constituencies? Was it technological? Well, Uh, 0:07:09.400 --> 0:07:12.360 it was a little of both. Um, it was the 0:07:12.440 --> 0:07:18.440 constituencies because advertisers didn't really have a reason to make 0:07:18.480 --> 0:07:22.320 the system work better because they're getting shows at less 0:07:22.320 --> 0:07:25.720 of a cost when you think about it, um, and 0:07:26.480 --> 0:07:30.520 until someone comes up with a system that competes well 0:07:30.600 --> 0:07:36.160 with Nielsen, which is the you know, dominant um Um 0:07:36.360 --> 0:07:39.600 system right now. Um, you know, there was in any 0:07:39.600 --> 0:07:45.400 way to to resolve the issue. UM. So it's just 0:07:45.560 --> 0:07:49.120 a perplexing system. And you mentioned a good point which 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:51.960 I didn't mention when I was describing It's not it's 0:07:52.000 --> 0:07:55.280 not only the three day and seven day issue when 0:07:55.320 --> 0:07:58.080 you watch it, it's also what platform you watch it on. 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:02.600 So if you watch my show on your phone or 0:08:02.600 --> 0:08:07.320 your iPad or your computer instead of on the cable network, 0:08:07.960 --> 0:08:11.200 we might not get credit for that. So that was 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:13.320 a big part of it too. And that has just 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:16.640 grown and grown. Streaming viewing has grown and grown. That's 0:08:16.720 --> 0:08:19.960 increasing amount of money on the table right and and 0:08:20.000 --> 0:08:24.720 the younger generation is watching TV actual TV less and less. 0:08:24.760 --> 0:08:27.960 I remember both of my kids or millennials, and when 0:08:28.000 --> 0:08:30.240 they were in college, they didn't have TV s. It's like, 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:32.280 how can you not have TV? Your mom's and the 0:08:32.400 --> 0:08:36.679 TV and they're like, well, we just watch it on 0:08:36.840 --> 0:08:40.440 our computer or a laptop. And they knew as much 0:08:40.480 --> 0:08:43.520 about content, they probably watched more content than I do, 0:08:43.760 --> 0:08:47.720 but they were just watching it at another through another means. 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:50.760 So that was a problem too. So, you know, I've 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:52.920 been out of the industry for about a year. I 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:56.040 don't know what's happened in that time, but I'm just 0:08:56.320 --> 0:09:00.760 still amazed that that that problem hasn't been resolved. Yeah, 0:09:01.040 --> 0:09:04.280 it's it's definitely a big one. Um. Let me ask 0:09:04.320 --> 0:09:08.000 you in the in your new chapter of your life. 0:09:08.040 --> 0:09:11.160 Have you become have you have you had more time 0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:13.760 to become a consumer of content? Have you spent more 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:16.800 time in the content world, or have you been traveling 0:09:16.840 --> 0:09:21.320 the world. I've been clearing your mind. I've traveled a 0:09:21.360 --> 0:09:24.120 little bit. I'm not a big traveler for long periods 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:26.200 of time. I like to come home and check in. 0:09:27.120 --> 0:09:30.280 But I am more of a consumer now. And I 0:09:30.320 --> 0:09:33.080 watched channels that I wouldn't watch before because they were 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:37.800 too competitive to be et So now I can watch 0:09:38.800 --> 0:09:42.720 programming targeted to our audience, African American audience, and I 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:45.720 can enjoy it as opposed to say, oh, I wish 0:09:45.760 --> 0:09:48.560 Power was on b ET, Why is it on Star? 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:52.280 And you know there's always that very competitive part of 0:09:52.280 --> 0:09:55.439 of running a network. Uh and and you know when 0:09:55.920 --> 0:09:59.400 UM black programming became popular, which it is right now, 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:02.840 UM you know, it was coming at us from all 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:08.680 different UM areas. And you know UM VH one had 0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:12.280 Monday nights where they put on their black programming, Bravo 0:10:12.400 --> 0:10:15.880 had Wednesday night. You know someone else had Thursday night. 0:10:15.920 --> 0:10:18.600 Our big night was Tuesday. So you just felt like 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:20.960 you were, you know, in a boxing match all the time, 0:10:21.080 --> 0:10:24.160 trying to be out others in the ratings game. UM 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:26.719 so that made it hard for me to enjoy programming. 0:10:26.760 --> 0:10:29.320 But now I can watch it and enjoy it. Um. 0:10:29.520 --> 0:10:32.120 I can talk about it with my kids. Uh, they 0:10:32.160 --> 0:10:35.679 tell me what their favorite shows are. Uh. And I 0:10:35.720 --> 0:10:40.240 love binge watching. I really do. Ye now that I 0:10:40.240 --> 0:10:42.200 have a tome, not time, and now that I don't 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:44.480 have to worry about ratings. And you know, binge watching 0:10:44.640 --> 0:10:49.400 was something I just hate it before, but now I'm yeah, 0:10:49.679 --> 0:10:52.000 but now I'm like, oh, yeah, this really works. You know, 0:10:52.080 --> 0:10:56.120 I can watch um, five episodes of Succession if I 0:10:56.160 --> 0:10:59.760 want to, or The Affair or whatever. So yeah, I've 0:10:59.800 --> 0:11:01.920 all it has been a big TV watcher, but now 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:04.480 I'm even more so of one. Is there anything about 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:07.320 now that you're a consumer more of a you know, 0:11:07.400 --> 0:11:10.280 not in the industry? Is there anything about the way 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:13.199 shows are presented? You know that the binge option. Is 0:11:13.200 --> 0:11:16.720 there anything that that you that you access now and 0:11:16.760 --> 0:11:18.720 you think, oh, gosh, we should have done that five 0:11:18.800 --> 0:11:20.920 years ago, ten years ago at b B b et. 0:11:21.160 --> 0:11:24.640 Have you had that experience at all? UM? I think 0:11:24.720 --> 0:11:30.880 the Netflix model is pretty interesting that they drop all 0:11:30.880 --> 0:11:34.400 the episodes at one time. UM. I don't know that 0:11:34.440 --> 0:11:36.960 we could have really done that at BT because of 0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:41.160 you know, we were still um um joined at the 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:44.240 hip with the rating system. But I mean, I think 0:11:45.080 --> 0:11:49.319 consumers are used to that now. Um So when you 0:11:50.080 --> 0:11:53.280 like a basic cab or even pay cable now, when 0:11:53.320 --> 0:11:55.440 they have to wait a week to see a show, 0:11:55.840 --> 0:11:58.640 I think that really bothers the consumers more than it 0:11:58.760 --> 0:12:04.319 did five five years ago. Um. We've all become for 0:12:04.520 --> 0:12:07.959 the on demand era. So if you like episode one, 0:12:08.040 --> 0:12:10.160 you want to watch episode two right away, you know, 0:12:10.240 --> 0:12:12.160 the thought that you have to wait a week. So 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:15.000 in a way I wish that BT had been part 0:12:15.000 --> 0:12:18.880 of that business model, that we could have done that, 0:12:19.840 --> 0:12:22.840 because I think when you know, when you catch a 0:12:22.880 --> 0:12:26.560 consumers attention, you want to keep it and you don't 0:12:26.559 --> 0:12:31.160 want to risk them going to watch something else. Um, 0:12:31.280 --> 0:12:35.720 so I can't think of anything else. Um. Sometimes I 0:12:35.760 --> 0:12:37.920 wish we were more in pay cable because so we 0:12:37.960 --> 0:12:42.839 could use um more interesting language. But if that would 0:12:42.840 --> 0:12:46.600 be attier, because that seems to have gotten more and 0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:52.079 more popular. I remember once I bought The Wire because 0:12:52.559 --> 0:12:55.040 I had heard that it was so highly you know, 0:12:55.080 --> 0:12:58.680 it was so um loved by the critics, and it 0:12:58.760 --> 0:13:02.120 was like the best in our Urgan documentary every I 0:13:02.120 --> 0:13:06.599 mean series ever made. So I remember buying it for 0:13:06.720 --> 0:13:09.560 BT and putting it on, but because we were basic Cable, 0:13:09.920 --> 0:13:13.200 I had to blank out all the curse words, which 0:13:13.240 --> 0:13:19.480 were considerable in that Yes, us were the F were 0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:22.640 the B word uh. And I remember talking to the 0:13:22.720 --> 0:13:24.800 head an in Double A c P because I run 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:28.040 it him to know. He's a friend of mine, Bruce Gordon. 0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:29.960 I called him and said, you know, we're putting on 0:13:29.960 --> 0:13:34.479 the wire. We may get some feedback from our criticism 0:13:34.600 --> 0:13:37.240 from our audience, but I want you to know we 0:13:37.280 --> 0:13:39.800 have an eight hundred number that sounds really outdated, and 0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:43.040 we have an eight hundred number, and if if there's 0:13:43.080 --> 0:13:46.320 a real problem with it, um, you know, I'll take 0:13:46.320 --> 0:13:48.000 it down. And he said, well, why would you be 0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:50.840 different from HBO, and I said, well, because we're basic 0:13:50.880 --> 0:13:53.560 cable and they're paid cable. Anyway, we put it on. 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:56.880 We just we got no feedback, but no one watched it. 0:13:57.960 --> 0:14:00.600 So we had the worst outcome, um, is that we 0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:04.160 had paid all this money for a show. Right. I 0:14:04.200 --> 0:14:07.079 almost wish they hated it and at least would talk 0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:10.600 about it, but it just died on our channel. Because 0:14:10.679 --> 0:14:16.120 you know, it took all the um culture or you know, 0:14:16.480 --> 0:14:20.920 um realism of the show out of it. Uh. And 0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:24.880 that's that's one of the problems you face in basic cable. 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:27.440 And and it's not to say I'm a proponent for 0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:31.920 a really foul language, but you know, sometimes it's part 0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:35.000 of a story. Um. One time, I'll tell you a 0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:39.360 funny story. During Being Mary Jane, we had a prohibition 0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:44.960 on BT about using the word bitch, and so Being 0:14:45.000 --> 0:14:48.880 Mary Jane was you know, more edgy, and so they 0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:53.680 would come and say, can we use bitch in this scenario? 0:14:53.760 --> 0:14:56.880 And they described the scenario to me. Well, one time 0:14:56.920 --> 0:15:00.160 they came and they said, be uh, Mary Jane in 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:03.480 a car accident and she was coming back to work 0:15:03.560 --> 0:15:06.640 and she had some injuries on her face, but she 0:15:06.800 --> 0:15:09.880 was walking down the hall, you know, very proud and 0:15:10.040 --> 0:15:12.360 she was going to tackle being back at work after 0:15:12.400 --> 0:15:15.160 this accident. Anyway, they were playing a song in the 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:18.000 background and they called to tell me that the song 0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:26.360 had thirty eight bitches in it, okay, And I was like, 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:30.080 you're kidding me, right, thirty eight bitches And they said, yeah, 0:15:30.240 --> 0:15:33.240 that's really important to storyline, and you know, and the 0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:37.920 creator and the writer were really so I eventually said 0:15:37.920 --> 0:15:40.800 it was okay. It was a hip hop song, and um, 0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:44.400 it was important to the plot. But you know, it's 0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:47.800 really a big step for us as a basic cable 0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:51.320 network to do that. And and um, in reality, the 0:15:51.480 --> 0:15:56.240 African American audience is um can be very conservative at times, 0:15:56.600 --> 0:15:59.760 so you never know when they're going to really criticize 0:15:59.800 --> 0:16:03.120 you or hold something against you. But I, you know, 0:16:03.200 --> 0:16:07.760 I often think that maybe the title of my booky 0:16:07.800 --> 0:16:11.840 eight Pitches, it would certainly in a turning point in 0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:15.440 my career. It would, so it would certainly be compelling. 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:17.320 But yeah, that's a that's a really interesting and of 0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:20.400 course nowadays you wouldn't even if you wanted to, you 0:16:20.440 --> 0:16:23.800 couldn't buy a show from HBO because it's all being 0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:28.480 funneled into it's all being funneled into HBO and the 0:16:28.640 --> 0:16:32.760 streaming service that Warner Media. And that's a that's an 0:16:32.800 --> 0:16:35.480 important point because a lot of shows we did buy 0:16:35.520 --> 0:16:39.640 were from We're either broken series or a series that 0:16:39.880 --> 0:16:43.600 you know, the networks weren't going to ever use themselves. 0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:48.360 So um that that option has gone out the door, right, 0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:51.320 And speaking of Warner Media, you have recently joined the 0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:53.400 board of A T and T. Yes, I have just 0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:56.160 a matter of weeks ago, so I realized that that 0:16:56.320 --> 0:16:58.680 you're the new kid. You're the new kid in the boardroom. 0:16:58.920 --> 0:17:02.720 But any you know, and and as fate would happen 0:17:02.760 --> 0:17:05.399 the companies and the headlines this week, I'm sure you 0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:09.600 saw that the Elliott management and as self described activist investor, 0:17:10.000 --> 0:17:13.040 has some thoughts about how A. T and T should 0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:15.720 be operating and what, you know, what what stock price 0:17:15.760 --> 0:17:18.359 they can reach in the future. I realized it's touchy 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:20.800 for you to talk about anything directly like that, but 0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:23.359 in the broad strokes, can you tell me certainly what 0:17:23.440 --> 0:17:26.399 motivated you to join the board and what you see 0:17:26.480 --> 0:17:29.800 as and A T and T s opportunities that they 0:17:29.840 --> 0:17:32.320 have with their you know, with their kind of unique 0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:37.760 mix right now of content, a massive wireless telephone service 0:17:38.040 --> 0:17:42.240 and also direct TV. Yeah, um, you're right. I can't 0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:45.400 comment on anything that's going on at the company as 0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:50.040 a board member. But I was attracted um to joining 0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:52.760 the board of A T and T because of the 0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:57.520 wide array of of UH platform and businesses they do 0:17:57.680 --> 0:18:00.560 own UH and I was especially excited it that they 0:18:00.800 --> 0:18:04.160 that Warner Media was a part of the company, and 0:18:04.240 --> 0:18:09.320 I you know, admired Warner Media for years, and the 0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:13.520 HBO has an amazing brand, and the Turner Networks and 0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:15.360 seeing an I mean I could go on and on 0:18:16.080 --> 0:18:19.920 you know, brands pretty well, very well compated with them 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:25.080 for many years, um and watch them grow and so UM. 0:18:25.520 --> 0:18:28.800 When I was contacted about my interests in a T 0:18:28.920 --> 0:18:32.600 and T, that was the major reason I was really interested. 0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:35.120 And then you know, it's also great to learn more 0:18:35.280 --> 0:18:39.320 about the technology side and five G and all the 0:18:39.359 --> 0:18:43.399 other things coming down the pike. So um. You know, 0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:46.800 as I was planning my next phase of life, which 0:18:46.840 --> 0:18:50.000 has has been very interesting, I realized that I wanted 0:18:50.000 --> 0:18:52.520 to keep my hand in content and that this would 0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:54.320 be a good way to do it, you know, not 0:18:54.440 --> 0:18:57.960 in an operating role, but in a on a board 0:18:58.200 --> 0:19:02.000 where you know, my advice could could be useful. Um. 0:19:02.040 --> 0:19:04.959 So I was. I'm very excited about that. Have you 0:19:05.000 --> 0:19:08.439 had much interaction with Randall Stevenson and John Stanky? Uh? 0:19:08.560 --> 0:19:10.800 Not yet. I haven't even been to my first board 0:19:10.800 --> 0:19:13.840 meeting yet, so you are so, But I'm not Sandel, 0:19:14.280 --> 0:19:18.200 you know, through their industry for a few years. Um. 0:19:18.240 --> 0:19:21.240 I haven't met John yet, but but I'm excited about 0:19:21.240 --> 0:19:23.840 getting involved and having been a CEO, and I know 0:19:23.920 --> 0:19:26.160 you have lived you know in vatcom, you lived through, 0:19:26.440 --> 0:19:29.760 you know, several good sized mergers. When you look at 0:19:29.880 --> 0:19:33.320 the challenge that the the the challenge and the opportunity 0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:35.480 that A T and T has and still you know, 0:19:35.520 --> 0:19:38.240 they're they're still in the integration process of A T 0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:41.280 and T and Warner Media. As a CEO, do you 0:19:41.320 --> 0:19:43.600 look at that and think, oh my god, that's a 0:19:43.600 --> 0:19:47.160 lot of work, or or are you kind of invigorated 0:19:47.160 --> 0:19:50.040 and think, wow, I can really I might be able 0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:52.919 to help them as they guide through as they you know, 0:19:52.960 --> 0:19:55.880 as they guide through the process of any any type 0:19:55.880 --> 0:19:58.800 of merger is difficult, you know, on any level, but 0:19:58.880 --> 0:20:00.480 at the scale of the big and this is that 0:20:00.520 --> 0:20:04.840 they're operating is pretty immense. Yeah, I'm I'm invigorated, you 0:20:04.880 --> 0:20:08.040 know because, as you said, I've had thirty two years 0:20:08.080 --> 0:20:11.800 of experience at b ET, I've been on other boards 0:20:11.840 --> 0:20:14.400 for a long time, for over twenty years. I've seen 0:20:14.400 --> 0:20:17.280 on the board of Putter for a for a long time. Yes, uh, 0:20:17.280 --> 0:20:19.119 And I'm on the board of Marriott. I've been on 0:20:19.119 --> 0:20:21.920 that board for about eighteen years. I went through their 0:20:22.080 --> 0:20:27.160 Marriott Starwood merger. Uh So I've seen mergers and acquisitions, 0:20:27.359 --> 0:20:30.640 and I know it's an exciting time for the company. 0:20:30.960 --> 0:20:34.280 It can be a scary time for employees and executives 0:20:34.320 --> 0:20:37.280 because you never know, um, what the company is gonna 0:20:37.320 --> 0:20:42.640 look like after the merger. But I thought, especially um, 0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:45.840 because this is new to a T and T, I'm 0:20:46.000 --> 0:20:49.199 very excited about being able to give good advice and 0:20:49.280 --> 0:20:53.119 be helpful from a board perspective. Well, you should be 0:20:53.160 --> 0:20:56.720 in for some lively discussions when you get together. Well, 0:20:56.720 --> 0:20:58.840 we will stay tuned on that. Let me ask you 0:20:58.880 --> 0:21:01.159 a little bit going back to the year early days 0:21:01.400 --> 0:21:05.200 at b ET, you joined in and in the legal 0:21:05.240 --> 0:21:10.240 department you pretty much established the legal department were for 0:21:10.480 --> 0:21:14.280 many years. Um, I was the first in the House council. 0:21:15.200 --> 0:21:18.120 When you think about those days, I think a lot 0:21:18.160 --> 0:21:20.480 of people have looked back at the early the growth 0:21:20.520 --> 0:21:23.480 of cable and looking at how streaming is transforming the 0:21:23.480 --> 0:21:26.520 marketplace now and kind of looking for parallels and how 0:21:26.600 --> 0:21:32.400 cable changed things. Um, how can you remember those early 0:21:32.480 --> 0:21:34.800 years when you were just growing by leaps and bounds 0:21:34.840 --> 0:21:39.760 the cable, the cable subscription, the whole subscription footprint of 0:21:39.800 --> 0:21:42.840 cable was growing by leaps and bounds in the eighties. 0:21:43.280 --> 0:21:48.840 Can you remember those years, like what what we're really Um? 0:21:48.880 --> 0:21:52.159 What really fueled b E t s growth at that time? 0:21:52.400 --> 0:21:55.399 And how when you kind of got the sense that 0:21:55.480 --> 0:21:58.080 you were really you were really getting in there and 0:21:58.119 --> 0:22:00.760 making enough of an impact to be petitives with the 0:22:00.960 --> 0:22:05.359 with the entrenched Old Guard, which were the broadcast network. Right. Well, 0:22:05.720 --> 0:22:08.720 I UM, as you said, I joined b ET nineteen 0:22:08.800 --> 0:22:12.360 eighty six, the company was about six years old. UM. 0:22:12.960 --> 0:22:17.520 It started in nineteen eighty and UM, you know around 0:22:17.560 --> 0:22:23.200 the time I joined, UM it was becoming much larger 0:22:23.800 --> 0:22:28.399 at a faster pace because cable was just getting into 0:22:28.560 --> 0:22:33.200 urban areas. UM. You may recall when cable first started, 0:22:33.240 --> 0:22:37.560 it was it was a rule. It was the people 0:22:37.600 --> 0:22:40.560 that lived so far out they couldn't get a local station. Correct. 0:22:40.640 --> 0:22:44.720 So it was a rural solution. UM. And it took 0:22:44.720 --> 0:22:48.520 a long time for it to get to uh bigger 0:22:48.560 --> 0:22:53.240 cities because they're so hard, they're so hard to wire. UM. 0:22:53.359 --> 0:22:56.760 But when I joined b ET in nineteen eighty six, 0:22:56.960 --> 0:23:00.159 before I left the law firm where UM I to 0:23:00.280 --> 0:23:03.879 know b ET and Bob Johnson, I actually worked on 0:23:03.920 --> 0:23:09.280 the DC cable franchise, UH for Bob Johnson and UM. 0:23:10.160 --> 0:23:12.639 I guess TC I was his partner at the time, 0:23:13.119 --> 0:23:17.280 but anyway, and they were a part owner of BT. 0:23:18.160 --> 0:23:21.919 I think we were the first UM cable programming investment 0:23:22.080 --> 0:23:25.280 that t C I did. B Yeah, so we were 0:23:25.320 --> 0:23:28.000 early on. But anyway, long story short, there was no 0:23:28.160 --> 0:23:30.680 cable in d C when I left the law firm 0:23:30.840 --> 0:23:33.600 to go work at BT, So all the partners were like, 0:23:34.119 --> 0:23:37.760 you're going where and you know, cable is not going 0:23:37.800 --> 0:23:42.320 to really last. They're all kind of theories about m 0:23:42.480 --> 0:23:45.880 m ds or other kind of technology. And I learned 0:23:45.880 --> 0:23:48.760 a couple of things from those early days. One never 0:23:48.960 --> 0:23:53.760 underestimate new technology. And I think the broadcast networks did 0:23:53.920 --> 0:23:58.800 underestimate cable. They just didn't really see it as a 0:23:58.880 --> 0:24:01.960 real competitor. And one of the reasons is that at 0:24:02.000 --> 0:24:06.720 the time, cable was mainly a retransmission mechanism. You know, 0:24:06.880 --> 0:24:09.919 no one was doing original programming. You know, we were 0:24:09.960 --> 0:24:15.240