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Speaker 1: M h. Welcome to Strictly Business Varieties, weekly podcast featuring

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Speaker 1: conversations with industry leaders about the business of entertainment. I'm

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Speaker 1: Cynthia Littleton, business editor for Variety Today. My guest in

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Speaker 1: New York is Deborah Lee, former chairman and CEO of

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Speaker 1: b ET Networks. Deborah had a front row seat to

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Speaker 1: the explosive growth of cable television during her thirty two

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Speaker 1: years at b ET. After years in the trenches making

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Speaker 1: her mark as a leader and as one of only

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Speaker 1: a few African American female CEOs in media, She's had

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Speaker 1: some time to reflect on the changing content marketplace since

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Speaker 1: her retirement in two thousand eighteen. In recent months, Lee

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Speaker 1: has joined the board of A T and T and

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Speaker 1: become CEO of Leading Women to Fined, an invitation only

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Speaker 1: conference series for women of color. In this wide ranging conversation,

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Speaker 1: Lee speaks candidly about how cable missed the threat posed

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Speaker 1: by streaming and the iportants of grooming and retaining executives

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Speaker 1: from diverse backgrounds. Deboraly, former chairman and CEO of b

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Speaker 1: ET Networks, who is now CEO of Leading Women Defined

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Speaker 1: a conference series, Thank you so much for stopping by

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Speaker 1: today to talk to us. Great, thank you, I'm excited

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Speaker 1: to be here. Here is Debor. You have more than

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Speaker 1: thirty years of experience in the trenches at the ET networks,

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Speaker 1: really growing up with the cable business, which just you know,

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Speaker 1: just invaluable experience undoubtedly for these chaotic and disrupted times

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Speaker 1: in media now. And you left b ET about a

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Speaker 1: year ago, a little over a year ago. In that

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Speaker 1: time since you've now had you have a little arms

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Speaker 1: length on the business. What stands out to you as

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Speaker 1: you think about where this industry is going? What? What

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Speaker 1: do you think? What do you see as the biggest

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Speaker 1: challenges that the leaders of companies that you like come,

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Speaker 1: like the Channel group that you used to run, What

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Speaker 1: are the biggest challenges that they have to sort of

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Speaker 1: sort out? Right now? There's a lot of a lot

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Speaker 1: of things in the air. But I would be curious

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Speaker 1: to your perspective as a former CEO media CEO, what

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Speaker 1: is the what are the biggest hills to climb and

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Speaker 1: say the next three or five years. That's a very

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Speaker 1: good question. Um, you know, what comes to mind immediately

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Speaker 1: are two major challenges. Um. The first I would say

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Speaker 1: is competition. There's just so much content out there. And

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Speaker 1: I remember the early days of the cable industry where

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Speaker 1: you know, cable systems that had twelve channels or twenty

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Speaker 1: four channels, thought that that was a lot, and then

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Speaker 1: we went to you know, a hundred channels and two

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Speaker 1: under channels. Now we have you know, not only infinite

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Speaker 1: cable channels, but also streaming services and um, all kinds

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Speaker 1: of different platforms that take up a lot of time

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Speaker 1: time for our viewers and consumers. UM. So I think

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Speaker 1: the biggest challenges how do you break through all of that?

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Speaker 1: How do you keep your audience? You know? Is it

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Speaker 1: about a brand? Is about building a brand? Which you know,

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Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time uh thinking about it,

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Speaker 1: b et because we had a very loyal audience, um

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Speaker 1: and so you know, we were able to keep that

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Speaker 1: audience because of our brand. UM. But you know, is

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Speaker 1: it just popular shows? You know, when when a network

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Speaker 1: starts selling to Netflix, they lose the brand of the

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Speaker 1: network and then it's just all about shows. Their shows

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Speaker 1: can be found elsewhere, which makes it by definition, not

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Speaker 1: exclusive to the network that originally. Yeah, so that opens

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Speaker 1: up more opportunities for sales of content, but it also

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Speaker 1: you know, leaves the consumers a little confused about what

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Speaker 1: who produced this show or what am I tied to

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Speaker 1: this show because of a brand or because I just

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Speaker 1: like the show? Um So the amount of competition keeps

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Speaker 1: increasing and um So that's that's really a major challenge.

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Speaker 1: Whether you're in cable, whether you're a Netflix, whether you're

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Speaker 1: you know, doing podcast or or any type of platform,

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Speaker 1: it's really how do you get the attention of the consumer?

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Speaker 1: Um And I would say the second biggest challenge that

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Speaker 1: you know, people don't talk about a lot, but was

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Speaker 1: really a challenge for me when I was at BT

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Speaker 1: is the measurement of the audience and how that translates

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Speaker 1: into ratings. Uh. You know, we're still in a system where, uh,

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Speaker 1: in cable, we have advertising spots and we sell those

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Speaker 1: two advertisers based on a guarantee of an audience. Um

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Speaker 1: And if you don't hit that guarantee, you have to

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Speaker 1: give advertisers money back. So if I put on a

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Speaker 1: show on Tuesday, let's say Being Mary Jane, which was

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Speaker 1: one of our popular shows, and you know, my viewer says, well,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna wait till Saturday to watch it, because that's

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Speaker 1: when I have more time uh, and I'm not working.

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Speaker 1: Um we wouldn't get credit for that show because you

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Speaker 1: have to be within a three day window to get

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Speaker 1: credit for the maximum advertising. Correct. Correct. And a lot

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Speaker 1: of consumers don't understand that, don't care about that. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's all about convenience for them now and that means

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Speaker 1: you know, watching it when you want to waiting, you

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Speaker 1: can wait for you know, five episodes to pile up

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Speaker 1: and then binge watch it. Um. So the rating system

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Speaker 1: has not kept up with the platforms and with the

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Speaker 1: way consumers watch television basically. Um So that's very frustrating

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Speaker 1: because you can have a very popular show that you

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Speaker 1: know everyone loves, and you know you can't meet your

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Speaker 1: guarantee to advertisers. Um So, you know, it's it's been

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Speaker 1: amazing to me that the measurement systems and companies haven't

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Speaker 1: solved that problem. Um because it's a major issue, right

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Speaker 1: And and when you were at b T you're part

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Speaker 1: of a huge media conglomerate, Viacom, with you know, dozens

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Speaker 1: of channels and a lot of cloud both with advertisers

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Speaker 1: and sort of within the industry. And I know, over

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Speaker 1: the years, people of Viacom and elsewhere have really tried

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Speaker 1: to kind of go at the both the multi platform

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Speaker 1: measurement challenge, capturing all the viewing and also having that

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Speaker 1: larger discussion with advertisers. I remember the the you know,

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Speaker 1: the process that led just to even extending the ratings

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Speaker 1: viewing period to three days. That was you know, months

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Speaker 1: of negotiations and lots of arm wrestling and lots of

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Speaker 1: horse trading. Um. What what didn't you find was sort

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Speaker 1: of the fundamental obstacle to coming to a better system

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Speaker 1: that would allow allow networks to capture more viewing? Was

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Speaker 1: it just the entrenched constituencies? Was it technological? Well, Uh,

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Speaker 1: it was a little of both. Um, it was the

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Speaker 1: constituencies because advertisers didn't really have a reason to make

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Speaker 1: the system work better because they're getting shows at less

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Speaker 1: of a cost when you think about it, um, and

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Speaker 1: until someone comes up with a system that competes well

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Speaker 1: with Nielsen, which is the you know, dominant um Um

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Speaker 1: system right now. Um, you know, there was in any

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Speaker 1: way to to resolve the issue. UM. So it's just

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Speaker 1: a perplexing system. And you mentioned a good point which

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Speaker 1: I didn't mention when I was describing It's not it's

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Speaker 1: not only the three day and seven day issue when

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Speaker 1: you watch it, it's also what platform you watch it on.

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Speaker 1: So if you watch my show on your phone or

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Speaker 1: your iPad or your computer instead of on the cable network,

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Speaker 1: we might not get credit for that. So that was

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Speaker 1: a big part of it too. And that has just

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Speaker 1: grown and grown. Streaming viewing has grown and grown. That's

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Speaker 1: increasing amount of money on the table right and and

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Speaker 1: the younger generation is watching TV actual TV less and less.

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Speaker 1: I remember both of my kids or millennials, and when

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Speaker 1: they were in college, they didn't have TV s. It's like,

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Speaker 1: how can you not have TV? Your mom's and the

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Speaker 1: TV and they're like, well, we just watch it on

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Speaker 1: our computer or a laptop. And they knew as much

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Speaker 1: about content, they probably watched more content than I do,

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Speaker 1: but they were just watching it at another through another means.

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Speaker 1: So that was a problem too. So, you know, I've

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Speaker 1: been out of the industry for about a year. I

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Speaker 1: don't know what's happened in that time, but I'm just

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Speaker 1: still amazed that that that problem hasn't been resolved. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's definitely a big one. Um. Let me ask

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Speaker 1: you in the in your new chapter of your life.

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Speaker 1: Have you become have you have you had more time

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Speaker 1: to become a consumer of content? Have you spent more

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Speaker 1: time in the content world, or have you been traveling

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Speaker 1: the world. I've been clearing your mind. I've traveled a

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Speaker 1: little bit. I'm not a big traveler for long periods

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Speaker 1: of time. I like to come home and check in.

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Speaker 1: But I am more of a consumer now. And I

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Speaker 1: watched channels that I wouldn't watch before because they were

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Speaker 1: too competitive to be et So now I can watch

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Speaker 1: programming targeted to our audience, African American audience, and I

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Speaker 1: can enjoy it as opposed to say, oh, I wish

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Speaker 1: Power was on b ET, Why is it on Star?

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Speaker 1: And you know there's always that very competitive part of

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Speaker 1: of running a network. Uh and and you know when

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Speaker 1: UM black programming became popular, which it is right now,

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Speaker 1: UM you know, it was coming at us from all

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Speaker 1: different UM areas. And you know UM VH one had

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Speaker 1: Monday nights where they put on their black programming, Bravo

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Speaker 1: had Wednesday night. You know someone else had Thursday night.

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Speaker 1: Our big night was Tuesday. So you just felt like

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Speaker 1: you were, you know, in a boxing match all the time,

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Speaker 1: trying to be out others in the ratings game. UM

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Speaker 1: so that made it hard for me to enjoy programming.

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Speaker 1: But now I can watch it and enjoy it. Um.

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Speaker 1: I can talk about it with my kids. Uh, they

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Speaker 1: tell me what their favorite shows are. Uh. And I

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Speaker 1: love binge watching. I really do. Ye now that I

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Speaker 1: have a tome, not time, and now that I don't

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Speaker 1: have to worry about ratings. And you know, binge watching

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Speaker 1: was something I just hate it before, but now I'm yeah,

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Speaker 1: but now I'm like, oh, yeah, this really works. You know,

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Speaker 1: I can watch um, five episodes of Succession if I

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Speaker 1: want to, or The Affair or whatever. So yeah, I've

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Speaker 1: all it has been a big TV watcher, but now

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Speaker 1: I'm even more so of one. Is there anything about

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Speaker 1: now that you're a consumer more of a you know,

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Speaker 1: not in the industry? Is there anything about the way

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Speaker 1: shows are presented? You know that the binge option. Is

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Speaker 1: there anything that that you that you access now and

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Speaker 1: you think, oh, gosh, we should have done that five

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Speaker 1: years ago, ten years ago at b B b et.

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Speaker 1: Have you had that experience at all? UM? I think

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Speaker 1: the Netflix model is pretty interesting that they drop all

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Speaker 1: the episodes at one time. UM. I don't know that

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Speaker 1: we could have really done that at BT because of

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Speaker 1: you know, we were still um um joined at the

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Speaker 1: hip with the rating system. But I mean, I think

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Speaker 1: consumers are used to that now. Um So when you

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Speaker 1: like a basic cab or even pay cable now, when

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Speaker 1: they have to wait a week to see a show,

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Speaker 1: I think that really bothers the consumers more than it

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Speaker 1: did five five years ago. Um. We've all become for

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Speaker 1: the on demand era. So if you like episode one,

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Speaker 1: you want to watch episode two right away, you know,

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Speaker 1: the thought that you have to wait a week. So

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Speaker 1: in a way I wish that BT had been part

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Speaker 1: of that business model, that we could have done that,

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Speaker 1: because I think when you know, when you catch a

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Speaker 1: consumers attention, you want to keep it and you don't

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Speaker 1: want to risk them going to watch something else. Um,

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Speaker 1: so I can't think of anything else. Um. Sometimes I

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Speaker 1: wish we were more in pay cable because so we

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Speaker 1: could use um more interesting language. But if that would

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Speaker 1: be attier, because that seems to have gotten more and

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Speaker 1: more popular. I remember once I bought The Wire because

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Speaker 1: I had heard that it was so highly you know,

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Speaker 1: it was so um loved by the critics, and it

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Speaker 1: was like the best in our Urgan documentary every I

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Speaker 1: mean series ever made. So I remember buying it for

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Speaker 1: BT and putting it on, but because we were basic Cable,

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Speaker 1: I had to blank out all the curse words, which

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Speaker 1: were considerable in that Yes, us were the F were

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Speaker 1: the B word uh. And I remember talking to the

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Speaker 1: head an in Double A c P because I run

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Speaker 1: it him to know. He's a friend of mine, Bruce Gordon.

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Speaker 1: I called him and said, you know, we're putting on

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Speaker 1: the wire. We may get some feedback from our criticism

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Speaker 1: from our audience, but I want you to know we

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Speaker 1: have an eight hundred number that sounds really outdated, and

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Speaker 1: we have an eight hundred number, and if if there's

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Speaker 1: a real problem with it, um, you know, I'll take

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Speaker 1: it down. And he said, well, why would you be

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Speaker 1: different from HBO, and I said, well, because we're basic

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Speaker 1: cable and they're paid cable. Anyway, we put it on.

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Speaker 1: We just we got no feedback, but no one watched it.

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Speaker 1: So we had the worst outcome, um, is that we

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Speaker 1: had paid all this money for a show. Right. I

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Speaker 1: almost wish they hated it and at least would talk

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Speaker 1: about it, but it just died on our channel. Because

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Speaker 1: you know, it took all the um culture or you know,

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Speaker 1: um realism of the show out of it. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: that's that's one of the problems you face in basic cable.

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Speaker 1: And and it's not to say I'm a proponent for

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Speaker 1: a really foul language, but you know, sometimes it's part

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Speaker 1: of a story. Um. One time, I'll tell you a

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Speaker 1: funny story. During Being Mary Jane, we had a prohibition

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Speaker 1: on BT about using the word bitch, and so Being

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Speaker 1: Mary Jane was you know, more edgy, and so they

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Speaker 1: would come and say, can we use bitch in this scenario?

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Speaker 1: And they described the scenario to me. Well, one time

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Speaker 1: they came and they said, be uh, Mary Jane in

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Speaker 1: a car accident and she was coming back to work

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Speaker 1: and she had some injuries on her face, but she

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Speaker 1: was walking down the hall, you know, very proud and

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Speaker 1: she was going to tackle being back at work after

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Speaker 1: this accident. Anyway, they were playing a song in the

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Speaker 1: background and they called to tell me that the song

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Speaker 1: had thirty eight bitches in it, okay, And I was like,

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Speaker 1: you're kidding me, right, thirty eight bitches And they said, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's really important to storyline, and you know, and the

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Speaker 1: creator and the writer were really so I eventually said

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Speaker 1: it was okay. It was a hip hop song, and um,

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Speaker 1: it was important to the plot. But you know, it's

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Speaker 1: really a big step for us as a basic cable

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Speaker 1: network to do that. And and um, in reality, the

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Speaker 1: African American audience is um can be very conservative at times,

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Speaker 1: so you never know when they're going to really criticize

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Speaker 1: you or hold something against you. But I, you know,

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Speaker 1: I often think that maybe the title of my booky

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Speaker 1: eight Pitches, it would certainly in a turning point in

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Speaker 1: my career. It would, so it would certainly be compelling.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, that's a that's a really interesting and of

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Speaker 1: course nowadays you wouldn't even if you wanted to, you

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Speaker 1: couldn't buy a show from HBO because it's all being

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Speaker 1: funneled into it's all being funneled into HBO and the

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Speaker 1: streaming service that Warner Media. And that's a that's an

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Speaker 1: important point because a lot of shows we did buy

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Speaker 1: were from We're either broken series or a series that

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Speaker 1: you know, the networks weren't going to ever use themselves.

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Speaker 1: So um that that option has gone out the door, right,

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Speaker 1: And speaking of Warner Media, you have recently joined the

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Speaker 1: board of A T and T. Yes, I have just

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Speaker 1: a matter of weeks ago, so I realized that that

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Speaker 1: you're the new kid. You're the new kid in the boardroom.

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Speaker 1: But any you know, and and as fate would happen

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Speaker 1: the companies and the headlines this week, I'm sure you

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Speaker 1: saw that the Elliott management and as self described activist investor,

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Speaker 1: has some thoughts about how A. T and T should

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Speaker 1: be operating and what, you know, what what stock price

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Speaker 1: they can reach in the future. I realized it's touchy

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Speaker 1: for you to talk about anything directly like that, but

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Speaker 1: in the broad strokes, can you tell me certainly what

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Speaker 1: motivated you to join the board and what you see

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Speaker 1: as and A T and T s opportunities that they

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Speaker 1: have with their you know, with their kind of unique

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Speaker 1: mix right now of content, a massive wireless telephone service

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Speaker 1: and also direct TV. Yeah, um, you're right. I can't

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Speaker 1: comment on anything that's going on at the company as

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Speaker 1: a board member. But I was attracted um to joining

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Speaker 1: the board of A T and T because of the

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Speaker 1: wide array of of UH platform and businesses they do

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Speaker 1: own UH and I was especially excited it that they

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Speaker 1: that Warner Media was a part of the company, and

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Speaker 1: I you know, admired Warner Media for years, and the

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Speaker 1: HBO has an amazing brand, and the Turner Networks and

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Speaker 1: seeing an I mean I could go on and on

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Speaker 1: you know, brands pretty well, very well compated with them

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Speaker 1: for many years, um and watch them grow and so UM.

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Speaker 1: When I was contacted about my interests in a T

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Speaker 1: and T, that was the major reason I was really interested.

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Speaker 1: And then you know, it's also great to learn more

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Speaker 1: about the technology side and five G and all the

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Speaker 1: other things coming down the pike. So um. You know,

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Speaker 1: as I was planning my next phase of life, which

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Speaker 1: has has been very interesting, I realized that I wanted

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Speaker 1: to keep my hand in content and that this would

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Speaker 1: be a good way to do it, you know, not

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Speaker 1: in an operating role, but in a on a board

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Speaker 1: where you know, my advice could could be useful. Um.

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Speaker 1: So I was. I'm very excited about that. Have you

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Speaker 1: had much interaction with Randall Stevenson and John Stanky? Uh?

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Speaker 1: Not yet. I haven't even been to my first board

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Speaker 1: meeting yet, so you are so, But I'm not Sandel,

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Speaker 1: you know, through their industry for a few years. Um.

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Speaker 1: I haven't met John yet, but but I'm excited about

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Speaker 1: getting involved and having been a CEO, and I know

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Speaker 1: you have lived you know in vatcom, you lived through,

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Speaker 1: you know, several good sized mergers. When you look at

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Speaker 1: the challenge that the the the challenge and the opportunity

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Speaker 1: that A T and T has and still you know,

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Speaker 1: they're they're still in the integration process of A T

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Speaker 1: and T and Warner Media. As a CEO, do you

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Speaker 1: look at that and think, oh my god, that's a

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Speaker 1: lot of work, or or are you kind of invigorated

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Speaker 1: and think, wow, I can really I might be able

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Speaker 1: to help them as they guide through as they you know,

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Speaker 1: as they guide through the process of any any type

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Speaker 1: of merger is difficult, you know, on any level, but

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Speaker 1: at the scale of the big and this is that

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Speaker 1: they're operating is pretty immense. Yeah, I'm I'm invigorated, you

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Speaker 1: know because, as you said, I've had thirty two years

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Speaker 1: of experience at b ET, I've been on other boards

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Speaker 1: for a long time, for over twenty years. I've seen

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Speaker 1: on the board of Putter for a for a long time. Yes, uh,

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Speaker 1: And I'm on the board of Marriott. I've been on

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Speaker 1: that board for about eighteen years. I went through their

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Speaker 1: Marriott Starwood merger. Uh So I've seen mergers and acquisitions,

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Speaker 1: and I know it's an exciting time for the company.

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Speaker 1: It can be a scary time for employees and executives

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Speaker 1: because you never know, um, what the company is gonna

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Speaker 1: look like after the merger. But I thought, especially um,

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Speaker 1: because this is new to a T and T, I'm

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Speaker 1: very excited about being able to give good advice and

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Speaker 1: be helpful from a board perspective. Well, you should be

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Speaker 1: in for some lively discussions when you get together. Well,

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Speaker 1: we will stay tuned on that. Let me ask you

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Speaker 1: a little bit going back to the year early days

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Speaker 1: at b ET, you joined in and in the legal

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Speaker 1: department you pretty much established the legal department were for

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Speaker 1: many years. Um, I was the first in the House council.

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Speaker 1: When you think about those days, I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of people have looked back at the early the growth

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Speaker 1: of cable and looking at how streaming is transforming the

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Speaker 1: marketplace now and kind of looking for parallels and how

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Speaker 1: cable changed things. Um, how can you remember those early

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Speaker 1: years when you were just growing by leaps and bounds

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Speaker 1: the cable, the cable subscription, the whole subscription footprint of

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Speaker 1: cable was growing by leaps and bounds in the eighties.

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Speaker 1: Can you remember those years, like what what we're really Um?

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Speaker 1: What really fueled b E t s growth at that time?

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Speaker 1: And how when you kind of got the sense that

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Speaker 1: you were really you were really getting in there and

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Speaker 1: making enough of an impact to be petitives with the

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Speaker 1: with the entrenched Old Guard, which were the broadcast network. Right. Well,

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Speaker 1: I UM, as you said, I joined b ET nineteen

371
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Speaker 1: eighty six, the company was about six years old. UM.

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Speaker 1: It started in nineteen eighty and UM, you know around

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Speaker 1: the time I joined, UM it was becoming much larger

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Speaker 1: at a faster pace because cable was just getting into

375
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Speaker 1: urban areas. UM. You may recall when cable first started,

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Speaker 1: it was it was a rule. It was the people

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Speaker 1: that lived so far out they couldn't get a local station. Correct.

378
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Speaker 1: So it was a rural solution. UM. And it took

379
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Speaker 1: a long time for it to get to uh bigger

380
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Speaker 1: cities because they're so hard, they're so hard to wire. UM.

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Speaker 1: But when I joined b ET in nineteen eighty six,

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Speaker 1: before I left the law firm where UM I to

383
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Speaker 1: know b ET and Bob Johnson, I actually worked on

384
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Speaker 1: the DC cable franchise, UH for Bob Johnson and UM.

385
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Speaker 1: I guess TC I was his partner at the time,

386
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Speaker 1: but anyway, and they were a part owner of BT.

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Speaker 1: I think we were the first UM cable programming investment

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Speaker 1: that t C I did. B Yeah, so we were

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Speaker 1: early on. But anyway, long story short, there was no

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Speaker 1: cable in d C when I left the law firm

391
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Speaker 1: to go work at BT, So all the partners were like,

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Speaker 1: you're going where and you know, cable is not going

393
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Speaker 1: to really last. They're all kind of theories about m

394
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Speaker 1: m ds or other kind of technology. And I learned

395
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Speaker 1: a couple of things from those early days. One never

396
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 1: underestimate new technology. And I think the broadcast networks did

397
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Speaker 1: underestimate cable. They just didn't really see it as a

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Speaker 1: real competitor. And one of the reasons is that at

399
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 1: the time, cable was mainly a retransmission mechanism. You know,

400
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,919
Speaker 1: no one was doing original programming. You know, we were

401
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 1: buying things from the broadcast networks. We were showing music videos,

402
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:19,120
Speaker 1: you know, especially B E, T and MTV. UH. There

403
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:23,400
Speaker 1: was local news, but there wasn't anything very creative. So

404
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:26,760
Speaker 1: I think the broadcast networks. Just didn't think we were

405
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 1: ever gonna really grow or scale UM, but it happened

406
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Speaker 1: over time UM and I think UM. The first indication

407
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 1: at BT was that we were going to become competitive

408
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 1: was when we went public in and UM. So that

409
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 1: was five years after I started and UM. We were

410
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,200
Speaker 1: able to raise a lot of capital by going public.

411
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Speaker 1: So the question after the public offering was what were

412
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Speaker 1: we going to use the proceeds for UM and we

413
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Speaker 1: were the first African American company to go pub book

414
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Speaker 1: on the New York Stock Exchange, so there was a

415
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 1: lot of excitement about that, a lot of milestones for

416
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:09,119
Speaker 1: founder Robert for sure. The stock price on the first

417
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 1: day went from seventeen dollars to twenty nine dollars. So

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00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,680
Speaker 1: not only were we a successful Black company, were a

419
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:22,480
Speaker 1: successful American company. You know, this was the promise of capitalism.

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Speaker 1: You know, you grow a business and then you take public.

421
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Speaker 1: You don't necessarily have to grow a business anymore. For

422
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Speaker 1: some reason, it's going to say that trajectory, it seems

423
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 1: so so pleasantly old fashioned. We we had to prove

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Speaker 1: that we had a certain number of years with positive

425
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:43,440
Speaker 1: revenue UM. But anyway, that's all change. But I think

426
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Speaker 1: that's when you know, we started feeling okay, we we're

427
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:51,320
Speaker 1: here to stay right. Wall Street has taken you seriously right,

428
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Speaker 1: And UM, I think around that time, or maybe a

429
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 1: few years earlier, we went from being a free service

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Speaker 1: to a charging three cent and then I remember at

431
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 1: one point we went to ten cent, which was charging

432
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 1: the cable operating correct, not the not the consumers, but

433
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:13,880
Speaker 1: the cable operators and uh. And then we eventually got

434
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,199
Speaker 1: to ten cent and that was a big step. And

435
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 1: that's a lot of guaranteed revenue when you're doing you know,

436
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 1: five year deals or ten year deals. And at that time,

437
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:27,119
Speaker 1: half our revenue came from advertising and half came from

438
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 1: cable affiliates. So after we um, you know, we're able

439
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:36,320
Speaker 1: to get the long term cable deals. UM, we became

440
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:40,359
Speaker 1: more comfortable. And you know, advertising comes and goes. But

441
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 1: you know, if you get some of the bigger brands

442
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 1: who understand the African American marketplace, UM, that helps you

443
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:51,680
Speaker 1: get others. But you know, tying up the cable operators

444
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 1: and being the only service targeted to African Americans really

445
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:59,159
Speaker 1: put us in in a good place for a number

446
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 1: of years. I think about those times, and I think

447
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,679
Speaker 1: about how much, you know, cultural attitudes have changed, just in,

448
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:08,719
Speaker 1: just in, even in my adult lifetime. Let me ask you,

449
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 1: was it a difficult conversation at times to get people

450
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 1: to to get cable operators to value and African American

451
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 1: centric services. Yes, for sure it was some of it

452
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,680
Speaker 1: as cable Again, as cable went into the major cities

453
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 1: that had larger black population, it was an easier conversation,

454
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 1: but still a lot of cable operators didn't really see

455
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:35,159
Speaker 1: the need for a channel like b et um or.

456
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 1: They would say, you know, I don't have I have

457
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:42,120
Speaker 1: less than teen percent of black viewerships, so why would

458
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 1: I need you um. So there were a lot of

459
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 1: hard conversations, a lot of marketing, a lot of dealing

460
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 1: with local politicians to get them to support us UM.

461
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,200
Speaker 1: The fact that t c I was an investor helped

462
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:59,400
Speaker 1: a little bit, and John Long was a very big supporter.

463
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 1: Helps to have cable's Darth Vader on your side, and

464
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:04,639
Speaker 1: sometimes it helped most of the time to help, but

465
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 1: sometimes it hurt because other cable systems, bigger cable systems,

466
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 1: were like, well, we know you gave t c I

467
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 1: a sweetheart, right so you have to prove you didn't. Uh.

468
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:19,720
Speaker 1: And I you know, the most favorite nations clauses were just,

469
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,440
Speaker 1: as a lawyer, the worst thing to me that ever existed.

470
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 1: And those are really challenging in this in this environment,

471
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:30,640
Speaker 1: right the digital m v p ds. Yes, it's it's

472
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:35,000
Speaker 1: it's every It still makes my skin crawls to hear

473
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 1: the term most favorite nation because you know, basically what

474
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 1: it says is, Okay, I'm gonna do a deal with you,

475
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 1: but if anyone else comes by and does a better deal,

476
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 1: I want the advantage of the deal they negotiated. So

477
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 1: you know, it takes away your need to be a

478
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 1: good negotiator because you can just sit back and wait

479
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 1: for whoever to come along. But anyway, that's you know,

480
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 1: that's a whole another story. Um but um so, there

481
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 1: was a period I think from maybe eight um we

482
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 1: went public in to maybe nine five where there's just

483
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 1: immense growth because New York was coming online and d

484
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 1: C and Chicago and uh, those those cities helped us

485
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 1: grow quite a bit. Um So, do you see parallels

486
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 1: to the way you know, Netflix has just kind of

487
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 1: stormed into the marketplace. Do you see parallels to kind

488
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 1: of what's the disruption that's going on now right, I

489
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 1: see a lot of parallels. Uh. The number one is that, um,

490
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:46,239
Speaker 1: cable programmers were so anxious to sell to Netflix in

491
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 1: the early days. You know, it was almost like found money.

492
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 1: It's like, oh, we have these shows on the library shows.

493
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 1: You know, Netflix needs programming and they're in a big check.

494
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 1: And so what the cable programming industry did was feed

495
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 1: and broadcast for a long time, and then all of

496
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 1: a sudden, Netflix starts doing their original programs and starts

497
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 1: being a viable competitor. UM. So I think it's kind

498
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 1: of exactly what happened with cable and broadcast is that

499
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 1: the cable industry didn't take Netflix seriously. They really didn't,

500
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden they're a behemoth and um,

501
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 1: you know, they don't have advertising, seems like no one's

502
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 1: holding them to a positive revenue flow, doesn't seem to matter,

503
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 1: and they're just creating more and more programming. So so, UM,

504
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 1: I think that was a hard lesson for cable program

505
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 1: mind site is definitely more closer than being in the trenches. Yeah,

506
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 1: I'm never you know, through your career, especially in your

507
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 1: last year's at BT. I mean you were one of

508
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 1: you know, it's sad to say, but you're one of

509
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 1: maybe count them on two hands, the number of female

510
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 1: CEOs and prominent media positions. What in your experience and

511
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 1: in your role now as CEO of leading women to

512
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 1: find what what are the some of the best things

513
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 1: that companies can do, companies of size can do to

514
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 1: help groom a new generation of leaders to make sure

515
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 1: that there's enough women, enough people of color, enough people

516
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 1: of all diverse backgrounds to bring the diversity that that

517
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 1: you know, people almost universally say is so important, especially

518
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 1: to a business that is in the business of of

519
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 1: drawing public audiences and and you know, reaching mass markets,

520
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 1: even even if it's in narrower slices. Everybody wants everybody

521
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:45,959
Speaker 1: wants to have. What so in you know, in in

522
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 1: this environment right now is have there been have you

523
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 1: had experiences a B E T or things or seen

524
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 1: companies that did really smart, proactive things that helped groom

525
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 1: that generation of leaders. Yeah, that's intra sin question. I think, um,

526
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 1: the thing we have to focus on now, and it's

527
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 1: the term that's very popular as diversity and inclusion, But

528
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 1: I think the part we should be you always have

529
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 1: to focus on diversity, and you always have to make

530
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 1: sure people get through the door. That's really important. So

531
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 1: we can't take our off that. But I think the

532
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 1: inclusion part is even more important these days because you

533
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 1: want people to stay. You want people to feel comfortable,

534
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 1: whether it's people of color or women. You want them

535
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 1: to feel comfortable in the environment of the company. You

536
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 1: want them to feel like they can UM be promoted

537
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 1: UM and that they have a long term career there

538
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 1: and then maybe one day they can be in the

539
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:50,400
Speaker 1: c suite UM. And I think that's the part that

540
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 1: we haven't focused on enough. Just how do you keep

541
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 1: UM a diverse executive team at the company? And you

542
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 1: mentioned and about the number of women. I think that's

543
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 1: what we still is an important issue because you know,

544
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 1: there was a Vanity Fair article UM several years ago

545
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 1: about the number of women that that would lead cable

546
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 1: networks and I think maybe there were six or seven

547
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 1: of us. It was pretty impressive. Within a year, half

548
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 1: of that number we're gone for one reason or another UM.

549
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 1: So even if you have a critical mass, it can

550
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 1: disappear really fast. The executive musical chairs endless, you know,

551
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 1: consolidation or someone just decides to leave and do something else. UM.

552
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 1: So it's important to keep the pipeline going and make

553
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 1: sure that if you know, if if I leave, or

554
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 1: Judy McGrath leaves or someone else, that there are people

555
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 1: behind us to keep it going. And I think, you know,

556
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 1: the past two years have been so interesting with the

557
00:33:56,680 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 1: met Too movement and such a time um, and the

558
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 1: issues that women have in the workplace. Um, And those

559
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,280
Speaker 1: were issues we didn't talk about a lot, but those

560
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:11,800
Speaker 1: issues and you know, how do you have a family

561
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 1: and and um do you know, become an executive at

562
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,240
Speaker 1: a company. UM. So there's still a lot of things

563
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:24,840
Speaker 1: to talk about. And UM, you know, it's the issue

564
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 1: is never over. You know. I think it Sandra Day

565
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 1: O'Connor who said in twenty five years we didn't we

566
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 1: wouldn't need any affirmative action laws. And it sounded crazy

567
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 1: when she said, it sounds even crazier today. UM. But

568
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 1: I think companies and and a lot of companies are

569
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 1: taking diversity and inclusion very seriously, UM, and you know,

570
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:50,280
Speaker 1: really focusing on, um, how do you make it better

571
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:55,920
Speaker 1: um for working parents, for people of color, and especially

572
00:34:55,920 --> 00:35:00,840
Speaker 1: the industry we're in because Um, it's so important to

573
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:04,960
Speaker 1: have different images on the air. I talk a lot

574
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:08,279
Speaker 1: about about about my life and growing up in the

575
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 1: Segre date itself and only seeing black people on TV

576
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:14,880
Speaker 1: for one hour a week and on Soul Train. I

577
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:17,719
Speaker 1: mean that was it. And if you miss that, it

578
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 1: was like we didn't even exist. So this industry is

579
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:23,959
Speaker 1: so important. I think we've made a lot of um

580
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 1: headway in terms of images and um, you know, I think, uh,

581
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 1: broadcast network and cable networks and streaming services are all

582
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,799
Speaker 1: realizing what we knew at BT for a long time,

583
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:38,279
Speaker 1: that we have a very loyal audience and we want

584
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:41,800
Speaker 1: to see ourselves and uh, we'll show up in numbers

585
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:45,839
Speaker 1: when it when it's done right. Um. And so it's

586
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 1: important to have people behind the camera are in the

587
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:52,800
Speaker 1: executive suites who can make those kind of decisions and

588
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 1: and are really sensitive to the viewing audience. Absolutely. UM.

589
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 1: Only what you grew up. You were born and raised

590
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:05,400
Speaker 1: in South Carolina. I was born in born in South Carolina,

591
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:07,520
Speaker 1: and then I my dad was in the army, so

592
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 1: we moved all over the place, moved all over the place,

593
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 1: and then you went to law school and we're working

594
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 1: for a very prominent DC firm. Correct, What was it

595
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,760
Speaker 1: that really UM turned the tide for you in terms

596
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 1: of leaving what I'm sure it was a successful law

597
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 1: track to working for a startup UH company. Were you

598
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 1: and were you a TV fan growing up? Did you?

599
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:35,480
Speaker 1: I was always a TV fan, UM, and I wanted

600
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 1: I went to law school UM with the idea I

601
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 1: was going to change the world some kind of way.

602
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 1: You know. I saw what their good Marshall had done

603
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 1: in the fifties and sixties, or Constant Baker Motley or

604
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,359
Speaker 1: all these people that I admired, and I thought law

605
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:52,759
Speaker 1: school was the way to do that. By how I

606
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 1: got to law school, and especially because I went to Harvard,

607
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 1: it was not the best choice of law school. I mean,

608
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 1: it was great for a lot of other reasons, but

609
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 1: it wasn't the place to talk about changing public policy

610
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:07,919
Speaker 1: or changing the world. It was very focused on black

611
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:10,719
Speaker 1: letter law and this is what the courts say. And

612
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 1: so I was looking for a way out of it,

613
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 1: and I went to Kennedy School because I thought that

614
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:19,279
Speaker 1: that would if I went into government, and I'd be

615
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 1: closer to what I wanted to do. Anyway, long story short,

616
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:25,399
Speaker 1: at Ronald Reagan one when I moved to Washington, and

617
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 1: I decided to go to a big law firm to

618
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:31,279
Speaker 1: hang out till the Democrats came back. But that took

619
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 1: twelve years. So after about five years, I said, okay,

620
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 1: I gotta I never really wanted to be a partner

621
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:39,919
Speaker 1: at a law firm. Um. It was never in my

622
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:44,400
Speaker 1: career strategy. So I said, you know, I need to

623
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 1: go do something else. And I have found by that

624
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:51,480
Speaker 1: time that I really enjoyed communications and media um, because

625
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 1: that's the kind of work I was doing at the firm.

626
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:57,319
Speaker 1: And BT was a client, a very small client. They

627
00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:01,760
Speaker 1: didn't have very much money. Uh. And eventually Bob Johnson

628
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:07,280
Speaker 1: offered me the position to come and start the legal department.

629
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:09,520
Speaker 1: And by that time I had done some interviewing in

630
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:14,840
Speaker 1: New York UM with HBO and CBS, records and companies

631
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,960
Speaker 1: that sounded interesting to me. But I didn't really want

632
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 1: to move to New York at that point. Uh. I

633
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:25,239
Speaker 1: was a d C girl. My dad was originally from

634
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 1: d C. So even though I hadn't grown up there,

635
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:31,319
Speaker 1: it always felt like home. Um. So BET provided the

636
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:35,719
Speaker 1: perfect answer was an entertainment company. It was in d C.

637
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 1: It was focused on the audience that I cared about.

638
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:44,520
Speaker 1: I had grown up with black brands like Motown and

639
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:49,399
Speaker 1: um Um, Ebony and Essence UM. So it really brought

640
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 1: a lot of different areas together. And I thought it

641
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:57,640
Speaker 1: was a way to change the world. Um, not directly

642
00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:01,760
Speaker 1: through policy, but indirectly because you know, we could lobby

643
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 1: the Hill or the White House, whoever was in the

644
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 1: White House. We had a voice as one of the

645
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:11,160
Speaker 1: largest black companies out there, UM, and we were committed

646
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:14,359
Speaker 1: to it and committed to our audience. So you know,

647
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:18,320
Speaker 1: it worked out in a lot of ways to include

648
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 1: things that were of interest to me. It wasn't the

649
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:25,359
Speaker 1: career I planned. And I tell this story often. My

650
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 1: father said, why are you leaving this prestigious law firm

651
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 1: And I said, well, I'm just not having fun anymore.

652
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:33,440
Speaker 1: And he looked at me and he said, well, it

653
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:35,800
Speaker 1: was supposed to be fun. They wouldn't call it work.

654
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:39,839
Speaker 1: And he meant that to the core of his being.

655
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:42,440
Speaker 1: He was in the army for twenty five years. I

656
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:44,960
Speaker 1: don't think he could say he had fun on any

657
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:49,440
Speaker 1: particular day. But I just thought then the era, Uh

658
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:53,800
Speaker 1: I went to Millennial, but Premillennial that you know, you

659
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 1: should enjoy the work you do. And um, I was

660
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 1: willing to leave a firm where I wasn't fully satisfied

661
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 1: and take a risk. Uh. And in hindsight, it's the

662
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:08,479
Speaker 1: best risk that I've ever taken. And I'm sure Dad

663
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 1: was proud. He was. He was by the time he

664
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:17,440
Speaker 1: lived in Baltimore, by time Baltimore got cable and for

665
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 1: period of time he developed Alzheimer's early on, so that

666
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 1: was sad. But he would cut out any article he

667
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:28,480
Speaker 1: saw about Bete and send it to remember when you

668
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:31,440
Speaker 1: had to cut out articles and so he's been sending

669
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 1: so he was very proud. Yeah, I think he would

670
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:37,799
Speaker 1: say I made the right move. Thank you so much,

671
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:40,000
Speaker 1: Debor for coming and sharing your thoughts with us. We

672
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:43,279
Speaker 1: really look forward to seeing you know what is next

673
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:45,320
Speaker 1: for you and I'll keep my eye on leading women

674
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:48,320
Speaker 1: to great. Great. What I hope leading women to fine

675
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:52,239
Speaker 1: is a way to give women who are moving up

676
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:55,600
Speaker 1: the ladder in the business world a way to support

677
00:40:55,640 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 1: each other. Um, and really focus on support Ardine and

678
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:03,800
Speaker 1: what needs we have. So I'm excited about it. So

679
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:06,600
Speaker 1: like a really worthy, worthy project. Well, thank you for

680
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:11,760
Speaker 1: having me today. Thanks for your time dab thanks for listening.

681
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 1: Be sure to tune in next week for another episode

682
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:19,480
Speaker 1: of Strictly Business m