Speaker 1: Welcome into Northside Territory File Territory Networks Cubs Podcast. I'm
Speaker 1: Sahadev Charma with my partner Patrick Mudey. We are your
Speaker 1: Cubs beat writers over at the Athletic and Patrick. We
Speaker 1: are just a little over three weeks away from the
Speaker 1: trade deadline. The Cubs are somehow still hanging around in
Speaker 1: this I shouldn't say hanging around. They're in a playoff spot.
Speaker 1: They look pretty good at times. They are not a
Speaker 1: perfect team. We know they are a banged up team
Speaker 1: and the pitching, pitching and pitching is what we're going
Speaker 1: to be talking about for the next three weeks. I
Speaker 1: don't know how easy it is going to be to
Speaker 1: swing a big deal to dramatically change this rotation. But
Speaker 1: every year, I think you wrote this every year around
Speaker 1: this time, if if the Cubs are in it, Jed
Speaker 1: Hoyer is adding to the bullpen or adding in some
Speaker 1: way helping his team, improving this team, primarily the bullpen
Speaker 1: looks like a way that they always try to find
Speaker 1: some way to change things around. If you listen to
Speaker 1: Craig Council talk every spring training, he talks about bullpens
Speaker 1: a lot, and it's the same like four or five
Speaker 1: guys that you're leaning on in April are almost never
Speaker 1: the same ones come September. I think that's what we're
Speaker 1: going to be seeing. There's gonna be a lot of
Speaker 1: interchanging parts over the next three weeks, but maybe as
Speaker 1: we get closer to the deadline, we'll finally see some
Speaker 1: of those more significant moves. But that's what we're going
Speaker 1: to be.
Speaker 2: Watching, and that's the.
Speaker 1: Really the topic for the next few weeks.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I wouldn't get fixated on like one name or
Speaker 3: sort of be locked into this idea of the you know,
Speaker 3: playhoff starter who pitches into the eighth inning type of guy.
Speaker 3: There aren't many out there. That's not how playoff games
Speaker 3: are run. And I think there's when you look at
Speaker 3: just the amount of injuries the Cubs have endured, there
Speaker 3: are a lot of ways for them to get better,
Speaker 3: and I think they can be creative and I think
Speaker 3: that accentuates one of their strengths that they're they're pitching group,
Speaker 3: the buy in that they get a manager who has
Speaker 3: a pretty good feel for these situations and how to
Speaker 3: you know, put guys in positions to succeed. And so
Speaker 3: I think if you think about a pitching staff maybe
Speaker 3: one through thirteen, more than can you get a number
Speaker 3: one starter? Number one a type starter? Like if you
Speaker 3: look at that, we were just going to talk about
Speaker 3: this off the air, like look at the standings, Like
Speaker 3: who who's like a guaranteed seller at the end of
Speaker 3: the month.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's not. It's not a long list. And
Speaker 1: and like some of these teams are going to be
Speaker 1: waiting till the very end, because like the Mets, you'd say,
Speaker 1: just looking at where they are, you'd say, guaranteed seller.
Speaker 1: But they're gonna wait. They're gonna wait till the like
Speaker 1: until they have to make a decision.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 1: Outside of that, it's like you look at the A.
Speaker 1: Elliotts two teams, it's the Angels and the Royals. The
Speaker 1: rest are kind of in it. And that's insane. There's
Speaker 1: some bad like what we thought were like dreadful teams
Speaker 1: and they're right back in at the Red Sox are
Speaker 1: a game and a half out of a playoff spot.
Speaker 1: This is it's a weird year. Uh. The expanded playoffs
Speaker 1: have changed the way we look at things, and it's
Speaker 1: gotta be a little frustrating for teams that are obvious
Speaker 1: buyers because Jid Hoyer can't like fans may be clamoring
Speaker 1: for him to make a move, but you're gonna be
Speaker 1: you know, I know they don't like hearing about, you know,
Speaker 1: sacrificing the future. But you have to think a little
Speaker 1: bit about the value that you're giving up and right now.
Speaker 1: To make a significant move on what is it July eleventh,
Speaker 1: as we record, you have to you'd have to be
Speaker 1: overpaying significantly. The Tigers aren't gonna want to give up
Speaker 1: right now, like a team like the Tigers who have
Speaker 1: you know, at least one maybe two significant uh you know,
Speaker 1: trade pieces, potential trade pieces that could alter a team's rotation.
Speaker 1: With Schooble and Casey Mize, they're two and a half
Speaker 1: games out of a playoff spot. These teams that are
Speaker 1: built to win now, that are within shooting distance a
Speaker 1: shouting distance of a of a playoff spot, are are
Speaker 1: not gonna want to sell unless you completely bul them over,
Speaker 1: and even then they may not want to. I think
Speaker 1: it's just it's kind of interesting. Uh it's going. It's
Speaker 1: interesting to look at where the teams are, but it's going.
Speaker 1: It just I think it leads to kind of a boring, uh,
Speaker 1: deadline potentially boring. We'll see what happens in a few weeks.
Speaker 1: It's not gonna I just don't think it's gonna be
Speaker 1: busy for a couple of weeks. Still.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we just did a mail bag for the Athletic
Speaker 3: and you know, there were certain questions that just sounded
Speaker 3: really pessimistic about the Cubs and really.
Speaker 2: Doubtful that Jed Hoyer uh is going to do anything.
Speaker 3: And you know, I get that to an extent, like
Speaker 3: we're not out here patting the table like they're they're
Speaker 3: gonna go get Schooble. I would be shocked if Schoobl's
Speaker 3: you know, pitching at Wrigley Field in August just not there.
Speaker 4: MO.
Speaker 2: The the distance between them and.
Speaker 3: The Brewers and a first round by I think it's
Speaker 3: just too too far. No knowing how they operate, and
Speaker 3: I think they're realistic here of Like to think that
Speaker 3: they're going to make up like four to five games
Speaker 3: on the Brewers over the next three weeks is just
Speaker 3: not realistic. I think they play the Brewers maybe like
Speaker 3: seven times late August, early September. It's kind of that
Speaker 3: Labor Day window they've got, you know, two series in
Speaker 3: a short timeframe. Just given that, you can't expect the
Speaker 3: Brewers to just like fade and you know, with everything
Speaker 3: that comes to dealing with you know, expecting them to
Speaker 3: rip off another ten game winning streak is not realistic.
Speaker 3: But like getting relievers who you trust to pitch in
Speaker 3: playoff games is not unreasonable. Getting you know, a competent
Speaker 3: major league starter who can help you get to October,
Speaker 3: I don't think that's realistic. I think they have to
Speaker 3: do some shopping for the future here. This is one
Speaker 3: of the few times when teams are actually like willing
Speaker 3: and motivated to really seriously discuss players and make big moves.
Speaker 3: So we get baseball is such a region sport. You
Speaker 3: follow your team, We cover one team and some other
Speaker 3: stuff around it, And so I think sometimes your frustrations
Speaker 3: with the team you follow are not really unique. That
Speaker 3: there are probably twenty nine other front offices out there
Speaker 3: or fan bases out there wondering why you do something.
Speaker 3: This is just how baball in twenty twenty six works.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was actually a little surprised at how pessimistic
Speaker 1: some of the questions were, just regarding the team in general,
Speaker 1: Like some of the questions. It's like the team is
Speaker 1: playing pretty well all things considered, Like I did not
Speaker 1: like people get very frustrated with with the bullpen. It's
Speaker 1: like the bullpen is how is this bullpen even like
Speaker 1: getting outs at times? Like guys are either overused or
Speaker 1: really shouldn't be on a team that's contending for the
Speaker 1: playoffs like these are Like these are a bunch of
Speaker 1: guys that have been defaid and they're not going to
Speaker 1: be perfect. Some of these guys have done well all
Speaker 1: things considered, but they need to add to that area
Speaker 1: for sure. Whether whether that means like guys getting healthy
Speaker 1: and coming back and helping the team in the bullpen,
Speaker 1: or or adding at the deadline. I think that's that's
Speaker 1: just absolutely a must. And they may not be the
Speaker 1: most exciting names right a role as Chapman may not
Speaker 1: be added to this bullpen, but that doesn't mean that
Speaker 1: you can't suddenly build a really solid to strong bullpen
Speaker 1: without getting that no doubt stud reliever. Yes, I think
Speaker 1: it would be nice to get like a nice stud
Speaker 1: in that bullpen. I'm not sure if that's going to happen.
Speaker 1: Your point about adding for the future, I think is
Speaker 1: an interesting one. Can they be more aggressive in that regard.
Speaker 1: I don't think it makes sense to be very aggressive
Speaker 1: to go get a rental starter for the reasons we've
Speaker 1: talked about they are unless they ye make up a
Speaker 1: ton of ground here and suddenly the odds of winning
Speaker 1: and getting that winning the division or getting that buy
Speaker 1: shoot up. I don't expect that to be the path taken.
Speaker 1: It makes more sense if that guy's available. One thing
Speaker 1: before we take a break that I just want to mention,
Speaker 1: like this, this farm system was probably bottom ten entering
Speaker 1: the season. They've had a good year. Have they had
Speaker 1: a great year. I wouldn't say that, but they've had
Speaker 1: a good year, especially with the bats, and I think
Speaker 1: there's a lot of potential. You know, a lot of
Speaker 1: guys have kind of shot up the rankings. Obviously, Hartshorn
Speaker 1: has been huge, Owen Ayers has been really big. Pedro
Speaker 1: Ramirez who's at the major league level. Now, there's a
Speaker 1: few guys at that Triple A major league level that
Speaker 1: are interesting. We had a question about that. Would they
Speaker 1: move any of al Contra, Pedro, Ramirez, Biasteros or Shaw.
Speaker 1: You know, I think al Contra is the most likely
Speaker 1: of that group, but they're all valuable in a sense,
Speaker 1: some very valuable, and then you have the younger prospects,
Speaker 1: the guys that haven't hit the big leagues that are intriguing.
Speaker 1: I think there's enough there to make big moves or
Speaker 1: small moves and help this team significantly at the deadline.
Speaker 1: I guess we'll see how if, like the the one
Speaker 1: move that could completely change things would be that guy
Speaker 1: that that starting pitcher that is around beyond twenty twenty six.
Speaker 1: I don't know if that move gets made. Those moves
Speaker 1: are really hard to make, but you're right that teams
Speaker 1: do get motivated. And if Jed says, hey, I can
Speaker 1: give up a little bit more than I'd love to,
Speaker 1: but I'm getting a guy that can help us win
Speaker 1: these next two months and in twenty seven, maybe it's
Speaker 1: worth it. Well, not exactly sure how the lockout affects everything,
Speaker 1: but we'll see. We'll see what type of move they
Speaker 1: can make. Let's take a quick break and maybe talk
Speaker 1: about potential return or what a guy can help, whether
Speaker 1: someone can help this team. Justin Steele, it is in
Speaker 1: the latest news on him.
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Speaker 1: Well, I got to pay attention to where I'm putting
Speaker 1: things in there when I'm when I'm playing commercials a
Speaker 1: little bit better there. But you guys love that open
Speaker 1: so much. I figured I've played for you again. Uh,
Speaker 1: justin Steele, we've talked a lot about this, Patrick, but
Speaker 1: there was another update. Uh, and basically a lot of
Speaker 1: what we've been saying for ever since he had that
Speaker 1: setback and then took so long for him to start
Speaker 1: throwing again. How does he get built back up to
Speaker 1: be a starter? Was just like this flashing red sign
Speaker 1: for both of us, like, how is this possible? How
Speaker 1: is this going to happen? We had Jed Hoyer basically
Speaker 1: say it's not realistic. That was what three weeks ago now,
Speaker 1: two weeks ago now and Craig Council has set it
Speaker 1: again and maybe for emphasis, maybe who knows for what
Speaker 1: reason they're saying this, but it's become clear like how
Speaker 1: does this guy build up to be a starter? Tell
Speaker 1: us that you were there to tell me what would
Speaker 1: council exactly what he was saying and what you're hearing
Speaker 1: from the road there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think this will probably be a pretty quick segment,
Speaker 3: quick segment, and I think there is some you know,
Speaker 3: do you check the comments occasionally on our stories and
Speaker 3: you know, I just wrote a quick news reefin.
Speaker 2: I was like, is this old news? And it's like, no,
Speaker 2: Well this was.
Speaker 3: You know, the I think the firmest, most clear declaration
Speaker 3: of how the Cubs are viewing this situation. And the
Speaker 3: reason it was news was this past week Justin Steele
Speaker 3: visited with doctor Keith Meister, who had performed last year's
Speaker 3: season ending surgery and had diagnosed the flexer strain in
Speaker 3: late April, and so Steel was cleared to resume throwing
Speaker 3: off a mound the first week of August. And that
Speaker 3: to me sounded slower because we've been kind of asking
Speaker 3: around about this. I mean, you were in New York when,
Speaker 3: you know, I think Jed made those comments. But Steele
Speaker 3: had resumed some form of a throwing program at that point.
Speaker 3: And you know, again it comes with dispute my interpretation
Speaker 3: that that sounds a little like slower than an anticipated
Speaker 3: in terms of a first week of August.
Speaker 2: But Counsel's point was, look.
Speaker 3: In that you know examination, you know, nothing bad popped up.
Speaker 2: There was no like.
Speaker 3: Sort of new or negative development. According to Council but
Speaker 3: there was this go ahead to begin throwing off the
Speaker 3: mound the first week of August, which is a good
Speaker 3: development for Justin Steele, who obviously has dealt with a
Speaker 3: really long road back to get really just back on
Speaker 3: the radar, and that's you know, obviously frustrating.
Speaker 2: It's been slower than anyone would have hoped.
Speaker 3: But that when I ask counsels like that doesn't leave
Speaker 3: a lot of time to build back up.
Speaker 2: And he's like, yeah, we've been clear on.
Speaker 3: That, you know, And he's like, it's it's not realistic
Speaker 3: to think that he's gonna build back up as a starter, and.
Speaker 2: So you know, what is that mean? We don't know,
Speaker 2: he's got to start.
Speaker 3: You know, we're still you know, got the All Star
Speaker 3: break and then a couple more weeks before he's throwing
Speaker 3: off a mound. But obviously Justin Steele is a very
Speaker 3: good competitor. He broke in as a left handed reliever
Speaker 3: and did well in that role, and to his credit,
Speaker 3: you know, pushed for this starting opportunity and really.
Speaker 2: Took advantage of it.
Speaker 3: I think with all this stuff, you know, you have
Speaker 3: to think about the future as well, Like there's assuming
Speaker 3: the lockout doesn't last forever. There will be some form
Speaker 3: version of a season next year that you know. Justin
Speaker 3: Steele obviously wants to pitch for a long time, so
Speaker 3: it's kind of balancing that caution and also that sense
Speaker 3: of competitiveness that he wants to be out there. So
Speaker 3: I guess, you know, you can't think too far ahead
Speaker 3: with this stuff. But my takeaway from Baltimore was, you
Speaker 3: may there's a scenario in which, you know, he becomes
Speaker 3: an interesting pitcher who could become part of the equation.
Speaker 3: I don't like putting dates on it, but obviously first
Speaker 3: week of August you're looking at you know several you know,
Speaker 3: more weeks from that.
Speaker 2: Because of how they progress.
Speaker 3: You know, when you're talking about bullpens, live vps, you know,
Speaker 3: presumably a minor league rehab outing because he has not
Speaker 3: pitched in a major league game since April twenty twenty five.
Speaker 3: So you know, whether it's this kind of goes back
Speaker 3: to our previous segment of the trade deadline. It's like
Speaker 3: you can't really count on like Edward Cobert to come
Speaker 3: back and be that top of the line starter you
Speaker 3: were hoping for. You Ben Brown's gonna need a lot
Speaker 3: of time. Steele is a question mark. You know, Daniel
Speaker 3: Poalenci is on a you know, should be more of
Speaker 3: a I believe it's thrown off a mound after the
Speaker 3: All Star break or at least, you know, going forward
Speaker 3: with his throwing progression. But they have a lot of
Speaker 3: interesting names, and not all of them are going to
Speaker 3: come back and be healthy and perform at you know,
Speaker 3: one hundred percentile outcomes. But I think as you're going
Speaker 3: about the trade down on you add a couple of
Speaker 3: interesting arms, and then you have this whole group of
Speaker 3: really talented pitchers, and if a couple of them land
Speaker 3: on your playoff roster, I think you feel a lot
Speaker 3: better about things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you mentioned the three names Poalencia, Brown
Speaker 1: and Steel. Obviously we know what role Poalencia has, but
Speaker 1: you and Brown, I don't know what role they're going
Speaker 1: to hold. I mean, Stele, it sounds like best the
Speaker 1: case scenario is multi inning reliever that's still valuable, that
Speaker 1: can still help. It's not the ideal situation and it's
Speaker 1: not what people wanted back in March, but it can
Speaker 1: still help the team. And right now they just need
Speaker 1: healthy arms, healthy and effective arms. If he can be
Speaker 1: that for them. They'll take that. Obviously it's not the
Speaker 1: ideal scenario, but you'll take that. We'll see what Brown
Speaker 1: can be. We just don't have a timeline on him,
Speaker 1: so it's hard to say like he can come back
Speaker 1: as a starter or he's going to be an effective reliever.
Speaker 1: I just I don't feel comfortable with any declaration there
Speaker 1: until I know when he's throwing again with some urgency.
Speaker 1: But that's not there yet. And Poalencia, you know he'll
Speaker 1: be back eventually, it sounds like, and we know what
Speaker 1: he can do when he's healthy and feeling good out there,
Speaker 1: so he's an impactful bullpen arm. We know that when
Speaker 1: he's right. All right, let's take a quick break and
Speaker 1: come back and wrap this up.
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Speaker 1: We've we've talked a lot about pek Er Armstrong. I
Speaker 1: don't think there's been a shortage of Peaker Armstrong segments.
Speaker 1: But he just continues to, you know, excel in and
Speaker 1: do things that we just haven't seen before, or you know,
Speaker 1: perform in a way that demands attention. I think it
Speaker 1: was Wednesday ninth he had, you know, another big performance
Speaker 1: to homer game. He's he's now you know, the Sho
Speaker 1: Heo Tani injury suddenly opens up a pathway for him
Speaker 1: to be become an MVP favorite. Ah, he's one of
Speaker 1: the It's interesting because people still don't there's still pockets
Speaker 1: of people that still don't see him as a great player,
Speaker 1: or that he's just too streaky to be great. I
Speaker 1: don't know. I think he's figured something out. We talked
Speaker 1: about this. I think it was last episode with the Walks.
Speaker 1: I think that added to his bag of tricks, kind
Speaker 1: of makes him this this very special talent that like
Speaker 1: it's all kind of come together and we're seeing this
Speaker 1: is what it looks like when in a you know,
Speaker 1: an elite talent reaches their ceiling. I think that's what
Speaker 1: we're watching right now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's important to sometimes take a step
Speaker 3: back because like Pete has so many highlights, and there's
Speaker 3: been so much stuff kind of going around Pete this
Speaker 3: year that sometimes you lose sight of it. But you know,
Speaker 3: he's Nation League Player of the Month, and you know
Speaker 3: the five or six categories, those numbers he put up,
Speaker 3: you know, we're on par with what.
Speaker 2: Lou gerrig and Babe Ruth.
Speaker 3: Only three three dudes who have done it ever in
Speaker 3: Major League history.
Speaker 2: And then you know, if Pete had nineteen.
Speaker 3: Home runs and nineteen stolen bases at the break instead
Speaker 3: of whatever it is now twenty one and twenty three.
Speaker 3: You know, I don't think that will make a huge difference,
Speaker 3: but the round numbers of cubs with multiple twenty twenty
Speaker 3: seasons Pete, Ryan Sandberg, and Sammy Sosa, and that kind
Speaker 3: of jumped out to me. Not only was he the
Speaker 3: fastest player to twenty twenty this year, you know, to
Speaker 3: have years like that when you're this young, it's it's
Speaker 3: kind of mind boggling.
Speaker 2: Mind boggling. And we've seen the evolution of Pete.
Speaker 3: Council on Friday in Cincinnati kind of reiterated what what
Speaker 3: you've written, Sadev. What you know, we've all kind of
Speaker 3: seen that this idea that this is the best version
Speaker 3: of Pete, but it's a more sustainable version, meaning he's
Speaker 3: going to slump inevitably. You know, there are nights when
Speaker 3: you're gonna face a Hunter Green and and not look great,
Speaker 3: and you're you're going to be be frustrated. You know,
Speaker 3: he he didn't have a great second half last year,
Speaker 3: but that his ability to uh stick to a plan,
Speaker 3: take walks without losing his aggressiveness and and athleticism like
Speaker 3: that is you know, guys who do that, you are
Speaker 3: among the best hitters in the game and he's already
Speaker 3: maybe the best defender in the world.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a it's been fun to watch this evolution.
Speaker 1: It's so rare to see this. I believe upset it
Speaker 1: on the podcast. I know I've written it, but you
Speaker 1: just don't see guys doing this with their walk rate.
Speaker 1: We knew he had the power. He showed that last year.
Speaker 1: That was a development that we were like, oh, this
Speaker 1: guy has is it's not just okay power, it's pretty
Speaker 1: special power. We know he has the speed, we know
Speaker 1: about the defense and now and now he's added this
Speaker 1: wrinkle and it's uh, it does if he can keep
Speaker 1: it up. It's the type of thing that you know
Speaker 1: makes you level off during his slump, so you're not
Speaker 1: so you're that slump. That hitting slump isn't so detrimental
Speaker 1: to the team that it's like all you're bringing is defense,
Speaker 1: which is great with him, it's still valuable, but if
Speaker 1: he's taking walks too and getting on base, he's a threat.
Speaker 1: He's a problem for other teams. So just a game
Speaker 1: changing talent that kind of takes helps take this offense
Speaker 1: to the level that they're expected to be at, which
Speaker 1: is among the best in baseball. All right, that's it
Speaker 1: for this episode. We'll be back with one more this week.
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for listening to everyone. This is Northside Territory.
Speaker 1: Make sure to rate, review, subscribe, subscribe to the YouTube channel,
Speaker 1: and subscribe to The Athletic where Patrick and Iron top
Speaker 1: of all things Cubs. Thanks for listening and watching everyone.
Speaker 1: Take care.