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Speaker 1: Worrying. Today's episode candaded spoilers for episode three of Daredevil

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Speaker 1: Born Again, The Trial of Hector Ayala.

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Speaker 2: You warn't Whoa. Be warned because there's some spoilers that

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Speaker 2: you don't want to know until you watched it.

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Speaker 1: Hello, it was Jason Eccepsion and on Roseay Night And

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Speaker 1: welcome back to x ray Vision, the podcast where we

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Speaker 1: dive deep. It's your favorite shows, movies, comics and pop

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Speaker 1: culture coming over MYR podcast where we're bringing you three

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Speaker 1: big episodes a week, plus news on the weekend.

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Speaker 2: WHOA in today's episode in the airlock, you know, we

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Speaker 2: do drag him occasionally, we say he's a bit of

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Speaker 2: a hypocrite. But episode one oh three of Dead Evil

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Speaker 2: Born Again showcases Matt's incredible talent as a lawyer and

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Speaker 2: how his reckless nature can actually help out when most needed.

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Speaker 2: So that's very exciting to talk about this episode. It's

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Speaker 2: an incredible episode. We are also going to try and

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Speaker 2: understand Wilson Fisk's moral line because he is another hypocrite

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Speaker 2: in this show, and I can't quite work out what

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Speaker 2: is okay and what isn't okay by him, So let's

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Speaker 2: talk about that and a quick reminder. Our next book

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Speaker 2: club title is The Magician and the Alchemist's Gate from

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Speaker 2: Exhalations by Ted Chang. We will be covering that in

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Speaker 2: two weeks, so make sure you get your questions in soon.

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Speaker 2: If you want to understand how a book club episode

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Speaker 2: is going to be laid out and how your questions

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Speaker 2: will be used, feel free to listen to our Dad

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Speaker 2: Evil Born Again book Club.

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Speaker 1: First Airlock Okay Season one, Born Again Wild, Episode three,

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Speaker 1: we open a court Matt is talking to Hector before

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Speaker 1: their court appearance. Hector is clearly just a good dude.

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Speaker 1: We see in another scene a truck pulling up to

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Speaker 1: a salvage yard. This truck gets held up by some

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Speaker 1: Irish gangsters who kill the guys in.

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Speaker 2: The truck brutal. Just like no, it's happening.

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Speaker 1: Wilson and Vanessa are discussing this. Their relationship is still

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Speaker 1: very stilted and distant. Fisk tells Sheila basically to who

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Speaker 1: brings news of this murderous truck hijacking, to go tell

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Speaker 1: Commissioner Gallo make this case of priority. I want to

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Speaker 1: stamp down on crime, and particularly gang crime, because I

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Speaker 1: don't want anybody saying no. Look at Now that the

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Speaker 1: kingpin is mayor in New York, gang crime's going crazy.

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Speaker 1: Vanessa says, listen, the gang stuff, it's gonna get worse.

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Speaker 1: They're all struggling to see who's going to succeed you

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Speaker 1: as kingpin of crime and ultimately, like one of them

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Speaker 1: will win, but only after many of them die. And

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Speaker 1: Fisk is like, listen, I can't get of all this.

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Speaker 1: I'm mayor now, don't worry about this street level stuff,

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Speaker 1: Like we're about this fucking guy every time at court,

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Speaker 1: Officer Powell, the crooked cop, threatens Matt in the bathroom

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Speaker 1: and Matt.

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Speaker 2: Threatens him right back.

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Speaker 1: He's like, you know, witness champering is a felony, that

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Speaker 1: fellow officer, so you better watch out.

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Speaker 2: I love this because the reason that Pound knows that

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Speaker 2: Murdock has this secret life is because MC kicked the

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Speaker 2: shit out him and his body like, and he's not

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Speaker 2: looking good. I'm surprised he was alive, but I'm because

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Speaker 2: they both.

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Speaker 1: Have something on each other. Like the officer probably is like, well,

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Speaker 1: what I'm out you to the bar and then you're

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Speaker 1: in trouble and he's like, yeah, well what if I

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Speaker 1: out you for attempted murder of a witness, then you're

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Speaker 1: clearly investigator. Cherry walks past a punisher murle which was

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Speaker 1: probably done by muse maybe well maybe maybe not maybe

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Speaker 1: actually that one is just probably punisher fans anyway, and

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Speaker 1: then deliver us right. He delivers a little baggy to

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Speaker 1: witness Nicki, which is some drugs to just get him. Like,

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Speaker 1: Nicky is addicted to drugs and in order for him

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Speaker 1: to not be withdraw sick, he needs like a little

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Speaker 1: something just to take the edge off the symptoms so

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Speaker 1: he can the stand. Powell takes the stand. His face

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Speaker 1: is all fucked up, and he testifies to his version

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Speaker 1: of the attack in the subway, saying basically the hector

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Speaker 1: came out of nowhere and then he killed one of

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Speaker 1: the cops. Matt does his cross examination, asks He's like,

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Speaker 1: why is your face so fucked up?

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Speaker 2: Somebody told me you got a black eye, huh.

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Speaker 1: And basically makes a joke like yeah, it should have

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Speaker 1: ducked or something like that.

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Speaker 2: FoST hands fast Hans.

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Speaker 1: He then asks about Nikki Torres, the confidential informant witness

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Speaker 1: that Powell was just trying to murder, and it's like, hey,

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Speaker 1: you know this guy Torres, You ever worked with him? Was?

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Speaker 1: Did you ever meet with Torres? Where you meeting with Torres?

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Speaker 1: That night in the subway. There's like a long pause

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Speaker 1: where Powell's like, how do I answer this?

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Speaker 2: He is not going to answer, and Matt absolutely traps

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Speaker 2: him because he asks so many times that Powell's lawyer

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Speaker 2: is like trying to signify to him like he's got

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Speaker 2: something here, like just be like I don't remember, maybe

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Speaker 2: I have lick with him. But instead Powell is like, no, no, no,

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Speaker 2: don't know ever.

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Speaker 1: With that guy. Whoever happens. Meanwhile, Matt overhears with his

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Speaker 1: superhering his Daredevil hearing a cop in the gallery whispering

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Speaker 1: to another cop, and this cop has a punish your

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Speaker 1: tattoo on his neck whisper to another cop. Torres cannot testify,

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Speaker 1: so Matt knows he's onto something. Cherry is moving Torres

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Speaker 1: to the courthouse in an unmarked van, but there's other

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Speaker 1: cops waiting because they need to kill this guy. But

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Speaker 1: it's a bait and switch. The van is empty and

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Speaker 1: Cherry has one of his associates moving Torres to the

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Speaker 1: courthouse like in a regular taxi. Torres testifies, but he

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Speaker 1: basically gets scared on the stand and is like, no,

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Speaker 1: I never went I was not meeting with cops. I

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Speaker 1: didn't go to that subway station. I don't know what's

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Speaker 1: going on. Witness withdrawn and dismissed. And this is a

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Speaker 1: setback for Matt. Let's pause here to take a break,

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Speaker 1: and we'll be right back after these messengers and we're back.

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Speaker 1: But Cashman, an assistant to Mayor Fisk, meets with the

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Speaker 1: gangs and he's basically like, listen, chill the fuck out

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Speaker 1: with the murdering and the chuck hijacking and all the

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Speaker 1: crazy gang activity. This is a real problem, and it's

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Speaker 1: a problem for Mayor Fisk, and the boss is the

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Speaker 1: crime gang leaders are like, well fuck Mayor fix and

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Speaker 1: he gets to like call the shots. We don't like you,

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Speaker 1: we don't like Mayor Fisk.

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Speaker 2: But I do love that he was like, you are

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Speaker 2: gonna pay one point eight million dollars back, and I'm

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Speaker 2: gonna treat you like little kids. I was definitely like,

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Speaker 2: wait a minute, is he just going to kill them?

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Speaker 2: Like is this bullet coming out? Like is it happening?

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Speaker 2: But no, he is obviously paw of Wilson, Fisk and

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Speaker 2: Vanessa's new I love the way that that like, you know,

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Speaker 2: send the man down here, and he said, I don't

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Speaker 2: work for the man. I work for the man. So

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Speaker 2: he said, that's still Kingpin, So you about to watch yourself.

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Speaker 1: At McDuffie and murdochs our friends are plotting their next

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Speaker 1: move in the I Alley case. Maybe there's a paper

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Speaker 1: trail proving that Torre has worked with Powell and the

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Speaker 1: other officers and they can't find anything. Matt's basically at

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Speaker 1: the moves. Hector testifying and seeming believable, is maybe all

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Speaker 1: that they have, like show like get him up there

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Speaker 1: and hopefully he seems innocent. Meanwhile, king Pin and Vanessa

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Speaker 1: are continuing to have sessions with Heather. There are a

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Speaker 1: couples therapy sessions. We go back to court. Hector testifies

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Speaker 1: to his side of the story, which is he happened

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Speaker 1: upon him mugging, and he broke up the mugging, and

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Speaker 1: one of these muggers slipped and fell into the railway

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Speaker 1: track and it turned out that that guy is a cop,

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Speaker 1: and that in fact, that he was breaking up some

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Speaker 1: sort of cop event, and that the mugging victim is fled.

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Speaker 1: He doesn't know where he went. Matt, then, going back

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Speaker 1: on his earlier discussion with the judge and with Prosecutor Hackenberg,

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Speaker 1: pulls out the white tire rask it goes Hector, I

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Speaker 1: ella would not have just attacked criminals or cops or whoever,

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Speaker 1: because he is the white tiger.

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Speaker 2: Yes or no?

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Speaker 1: Hector? Are you the white tiger? And the judge again,

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Speaker 1: heads up?

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Speaker 2: Could have given Hector heads up? My friend? This was

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Speaker 2: I love Matt. He's so crazy.

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Speaker 1: He was desperate, and I think he thought Hector would

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Speaker 1: say no. But I still am like, you gotta tell

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Speaker 1: your client.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you gotta tell the client. But you know, as

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Speaker 2: Matt makes a point, there is no other route to

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Speaker 2: go when they just decimated your whole argument by having

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Speaker 2: the guitars and this way. I love that Matt says this,

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Speaker 2: but he's like, you know him when the judge calls

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Speaker 2: into the chambers and he's like, bro, what the fuck.

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Speaker 2: Matt's like, look, I didn't want you to suppress it.

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Speaker 2: I was gonna bring it up like they tampered with

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Speaker 2: my witness, so I had to do it. But he's like,

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Speaker 2: being the white Tiger is actually like it speaks to

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Speaker 2: his character and why he would have got involved in

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Speaker 2: this fight. And I was like, okay, so Matt's also

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Speaker 2: weirdly kind of he's putting himself on trial, like it's

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Speaker 2: very much about the nature of being a big vigil

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Speaker 2: being a vigilante and arguing that in the wake of

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Speaker 2: Fisk's anti vigil anti platform, which rhymes very nicely when

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Speaker 2: I say it, I just realized, but his anti vigilanti

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Speaker 2: platform means that Matt is here arguing Yeah, sure for Hector,

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Speaker 2: but also for the role of mass vigilantes in this

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Speaker 2: New York.

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Speaker 1: Various people who have been saved or otherwise helped by

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Speaker 1: the White Tiger testify on Hector's behalf. It is all

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Speaker 1: very effective. Then Matt introduces police reports showing that in fact,

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Speaker 1: not only has White Tiger helped regular people's helped cops

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Speaker 1: on a lot of occasions with their cases. He's a

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Speaker 1: good guy who protects the week, has no malice towards cops,

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Speaker 1: and he's helped some cops.

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Speaker 2: So what now?

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Speaker 1: And then he points out Hector was there that night

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Speaker 1: without his amulet, that he was not, in other words,

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Speaker 1: not armed and dangerous.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, not in costume, not armed with an emotional that's

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Speaker 2: magical amulet.

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Speaker 1: Guys, he was not looking for trouble that night.

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Speaker 2: Mm hmmm yeah. Because Also, I just I like the

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Speaker 2: idea that Matt brought this up, because he's like, if

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Speaker 2: he wanted to kill the cops, wouldn't he wear the magic?

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Speaker 2: I do just want to say, guys, I know this

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Speaker 2: is a reach, but I also know that they would

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Speaker 2: not put this in if they didn't want us to talk.

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Speaker 2: We know this is very famously a show that set

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Speaker 2: in New York, and Jason, we get a lot of

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Speaker 2: Red Hook mentions this episode, so I'm very excited for

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Speaker 2: you to potentially dig into Red Hook in a future omnibus.

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Speaker 2: But they when he's listing out all the different people

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Speaker 2: that White Tiger helped, he mentions Officer Morales, and I

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Speaker 2: think we are supposed to wonder whether or not that

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Speaker 2: is Miles that in this un I think, and I

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Speaker 2: love that.

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Speaker 1: I love that we go to final arguments, the jury

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Speaker 1: fives Hector not guilty. Fisk is unhappy because he's made vigilantes,

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Speaker 1: you know, like the number one issue of his mayoral reign.

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Speaker 1: So he's like, Dan, go get your friend BB Urich.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to give her an exclusive. Meanwhile, Matt cooks

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Speaker 1: a victory dinner for Heather. Bbie arrives at the Mayor's

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Speaker 1: office and Fisk tells her, listen to this verdict is

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Speaker 1: a travesty. I know it was a jury trial, but

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Speaker 1: Juri's get shit wrong and the jury is wrong, the

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Speaker 1: court was wrong. This is fucked up. I should know

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Speaker 1: as a victim of not just vigilantes but also the

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Speaker 1: system I was. I'm a victim of those things.

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Speaker 2: He's like, I was probably convicted incorrect.

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Speaker 1: Crimes. Also killed your uncle, which you don't know about,

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Speaker 1: but I'm gonna keep that secret to myself.

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Speaker 2: I really love the way they're using bb in this show.

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Speaker 2: I think we talked about the great kind of chapter,

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Speaker 2: kind of bookends or introductions that the things pose. I

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Speaker 2: felt like they were really given like Larry Clark kids vibes.

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Speaker 2: It felt very naturalistic. And I love that she is

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Speaker 2: not afraid. When she sits in front of Kinkin and

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Speaker 2: he's talking about Hector Iola is a murderer. He's a criminal.

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Speaker 2: She keeps checking him and being like, no, he had

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Speaker 2: a jury trial, he's innocent.

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Speaker 1: And we see his.

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Speaker 2: King he's like, fuck that. I decide it's law very

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Speaker 2: resonant when you're living in America in twenty twenty five,

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Speaker 2: surprisingly prescient. But this is such a great moment because

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Speaker 2: he's doing this kind of really intense monologue about cracking

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Speaker 2: down and how you know this can't be we can't

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Speaker 2: let people like hector on the streets. And as that's

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Speaker 2: going on, we get to the final scene, Jason, what happens?

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Speaker 1: Well, Victor is walking down the street and she's ready

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Speaker 1: for action, even though Matt did tell him, listen, you're

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Speaker 1: gonna have to You probably are gonna have to stop

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Speaker 1: the white tiger stuff now because everybody knows your right

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Speaker 1: and he said no, but he's like, fuck it. I'm

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Speaker 1: out here.

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Speaker 2: It's a calling, bro, I got my magical ambula.

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Speaker 1: I'm made for this. Someone steps out of the shadows,

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Speaker 1: puts a gun to his temple and blows him away.

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Speaker 1: And that person we see is wearing a bulletproof vest

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Speaker 1: with a punisher logo painted on it. And we'll be

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Speaker 1: right back after a quick brick.

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Speaker 2: And we're back.

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Speaker 1: I'm here to tell you it simply cannot be Frank Castle.

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Speaker 2: It's absolutely isn't Frank Castle, he is himself a vigilante,

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Speaker 2: though I will say I did think they added an

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Speaker 2: interesting rinkle hair because in the comics, Frank really hates

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Speaker 2: people who kill cops. So I think that it is

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Speaker 2: You're supposed to think, because we know that John Bernhall's

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Speaker 2: coming back and we know Punisher is going to be

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Speaker 2: you are supposed to think it's him. But I think

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Speaker 2: that we can definitively say it's absolutely not him. He

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Speaker 2: is a guy who's motivated by revenge for his family

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Speaker 2: for stopping criminals shooting a family man in the head

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Speaker 2: who's just been exonerated. I don't think it's him, but

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Speaker 2: as we know with the Punisher neck tattoos, the Punisher

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Speaker 2: risk tattoos, there is a Punish a Cop gang, and

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Speaker 2: I think this is one of the members of the

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Speaker 2: Punish a Cop Gang who works for FISC. And I

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Speaker 2: think that in the next episode or the next few episodes,

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Speaker 2: I think we will learn that this symbol is being

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Speaker 2: used by the gangs, and I believe that we may

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Speaker 2: find that Frank does not want to use that logo anymore.

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Speaker 2: That's my guess, because I think he's gonna think it's

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Speaker 2: being appropriated in a really dangerous way. I also have

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Speaker 2: to say, we saw that funny ass you know, it's

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Speaker 2: a punisher low Go painted on the wall that says triggered,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, I was like, do they have

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Speaker 2: the juice? But actually I think they have the juice

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Speaker 2: because I think that more show that's like a cop

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Speaker 2: that's obviously a cop symbol saying hey, if you see this,

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Speaker 2: are you triggered? Are you triggered? I think it speaks

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Speaker 2: a lot to the wider conversation this show is trying

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Speaker 2: to have. I mean, I thought this episode was unbelievable.

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Speaker 2: It moved me the first time I watched it. When

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Speaker 2: that final episode happened, I gasped out loud, like I

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Speaker 2: was absolutely shocked. The heck didn't survive. They build you

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Speaker 2: up to care about I think He's like a great episode.

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Speaker 2: I really wanted to see him and Matt in action

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Speaker 2: fighting together, you know, but I don't think that we're

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Speaker 2: necessarily gonna see that. I also think that it's really

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Speaker 2: great to see Matt as a functioning lawyer who cares

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Speaker 2: about the law. Who is it He didn't use his

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Speaker 2: you know, magical hearing to do anything dodgy or corrupt

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Speaker 2: here he used it for good. He rept Hector based

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Speaker 2: on the fact he believed he was innocent. And I

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Speaker 2: think that if this was made up of and I

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Speaker 2: think we can at least say it partially was from

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Speaker 2: what we know in the fact that hect Ayala was

295
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Speaker 2: announced years ago for this project. I think this is

296
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Speaker 2: probably what the meat of the original Dare Devil series

297
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Speaker 2: was the one that got pulled. I think that there

298
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Speaker 2: is a version of this where it was probably a

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Speaker 2: few episodes of Hector in Court. I would have loved

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Speaker 2: to see it because I thought this was very effective.

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Speaker 2: But I also think part of the thing that has

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Speaker 2: been so effective for me in this series is it's

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Speaker 2: very comic book. Wilson Fisk is just the mayor that's happening.

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Speaker 2: It's happening in one issue and you're dealing with it. Uh.

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Speaker 2: Hect Ayala great guy, vigilante, but he is getting killed

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Speaker 2: at the end of this episode, after we go through

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Speaker 2: his trial. They are speed running this, but in a

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Speaker 2: way that doesn't feel rushed. And I thought Matt revealing

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Speaker 2: the white Tiger mask was such a good surprise. I

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Speaker 2: didn't see it coming, and I loved having the people

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Speaker 2: in court on the record speaking about what vigilanteism means

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Speaker 2: to them. I think that will come back again.

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Speaker 1: Question. There are all these shots this one per episode,

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Speaker 1: last couple episodes where we see Wilson Fisk's knuckles all

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Speaker 1: bruised up. He's been punching stuff, he's.

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Speaker 2: Been what's he doing stuff?

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Speaker 1: What do you think?

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I think that especially in this episode,

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Speaker 2: they do that great cut from Fisk's knuckles to Matt's,

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Speaker 2: and I think the implication there is once again like

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Speaker 2: what are these two men doing? How do they go

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Speaker 2: about doing it? I wonder if Fisk has either been training,

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Speaker 2: because he did talk a lot about to Matt about

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Speaker 2: losing weight, having a lighter step, like wanting to be

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Speaker 2: more in control of his body. And I would be

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Speaker 2: interesting to see if we're going to get a big

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Speaker 2: Kingpin fight sequence, or he himself, you know, has been

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Speaker 2: beaten on people. That's I think It's like, I think

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Speaker 2: they mostly did it for the matter of it all,

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Speaker 2: because ever since the end of the first episode, we're

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Speaker 2: getting a lot of aren't they the same? Don't they

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Speaker 2: both pursue things in the same way. I'm interested to

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Speaker 2: know and to see who Fisk is beating on. I'm

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Speaker 2: guessing that will be a big reveal when they finally

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Speaker 2: kind of touch on it. What do you think I.

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Speaker 1: Agree with all of that. I think it's either a

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Speaker 1: allusion to the inner turmoil of like Fisk trying to

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Speaker 1: be the go straight mayor while harbor still harboring these

339
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Speaker 1: very very violent tendencies and taking them out on something.

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Speaker 1: Or he's got someone like a gang leader. Yeah, he

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Speaker 1: is has somewhere and he's I was wondering that ship.

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Speaker 2: If he's like he's like going down there and that's

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Speaker 2: his true therapy when he goes down these guys who

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Speaker 2: betrayed something like that. Yeah, I do think that could

345
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Speaker 2: definitely be. It almost like he has like a secret

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Speaker 2: kind of torture room where that's why that's his punching bag.

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Speaker 2: You know we've seen the end of this episode was

348
00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:01,480
Speaker 2: so brutal, you know what It really reminded me of

349
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Speaker 2: And I know we talk about this episode a lot

350
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Speaker 2: because it is so effective. I think the way they

351
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Speaker 2: ended the episode and the fact that at the end

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Speaker 2: of this episode they chose not to have any music

353
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Speaker 2: and instead had the sound of the frogs that Hector

354
00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:20,080
Speaker 2: was talking about. Yeah, from Puerto Rico. It was very

355
00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:23,480
Speaker 2: when Jamie gets his hand cut off in Game of Thrones, Yeah, you.

356
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Speaker 3: Know, this kind of huge shot and then it gives

357
00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:30,120
Speaker 3: you a quiet When I heard the frogs, I actually

358
00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:33,320
Speaker 3: like teared up because I loved the implication that, like,

359
00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:33,960
Speaker 3: that's what.

360
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:36,879
Speaker 2: Hector would hear after he died, that's where he wants

361
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Speaker 2: to be. But it also gives us time to process

362
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Speaker 2: what we've just seen, which is a really brutal and

363
00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:45,040
Speaker 2: horrible thing and something that I think political violence and

364
00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:50,120
Speaker 2: violence towards people who stand up against corrupt governments. That's

365
00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:52,919
Speaker 2: again very scary, very real right now. So I have

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Speaker 2: to say I really was. I loved the first two episodes.

367
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Speaker 2: They were so fun, they were so action packed. But

368
00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:02,119
Speaker 2: this episode reminded me why Dead Evil was such a

369
00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:04,760
Speaker 2: huge hit in the first place, which is when it

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00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:09,959
Speaker 2: focuses on character and delivers something like this that is

371
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:13,399
Speaker 2: so heart wrenching. We meet Hector's wife, we meet Hector's daughter.

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Speaker 2: I'm hoping one of them will take on the white

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Speaker 2: tiger mantle. There has been female white tigers in the comics. Also,

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Speaker 2: the magical Amula is still there, and I have to

375
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Speaker 2: say surprising no one. I fucking love the magical amula.

376
00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:27,479
Speaker 1: I love it everything.

377
00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:32,120
Speaker 2: I just laughed because I'm like, you're gonna have Matt

378
00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:35,359
Speaker 2: Murdoch in a court of law talking about, oh, you know,

379
00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:37,880
Speaker 2: he didn't have his magical amleola that gives him great

380
00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:41,000
Speaker 2: power and strength. But then you're also making me cry

381
00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:44,879
Speaker 2: in like a really politically resonant storyline. That is a

382
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:49,080
Speaker 2: true skill. And I love how they're blending and building

383
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:53,359
Speaker 2: in these more superheroic, more MCU moments. I mean, I

384
00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:57,119
Speaker 2: was absolutely cracking up watching this because there is a

385
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Speaker 2: Jack Kirby Black Panther story that Nick is very fond of,

386
00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:04,679
Speaker 2: so I know it very well about these magical frogs

387
00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:07,600
Speaker 2: that people use to teleport, and they're and they're also

388
00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:10,280
Speaker 2: like mechanical. The moment he said frogs, we were like

389
00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:12,280
Speaker 2: freaking out. We were like, are they gonna do it?

390
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:15,280
Speaker 2: The teleporting frogs? Obviously they didn't go that deep, but

391
00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:20,000
Speaker 2: it's very fun to see them kind of acknowledge the

392
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Speaker 2: fact that in this era of New York and the MCU,

393
00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:25,840
Speaker 2: some people have magical amulets, some people have chatari check,

394
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:29,280
Speaker 2: people have the stuff that makes it easier for them

395
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Speaker 2: to fight crime, and as we know from watching You

396
00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:36,640
Speaker 2: Know the great Your Friendly Neighborhood Spider Man series, that

397
00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:39,520
Speaker 2: is also something that is going on in the real MCU.

398
00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:42,159
Speaker 2: We saw that in Tom Hollands MCU. There are people

399
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:46,440
Speaker 2: getting this tech, whether it's you know tech that Shoka

400
00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:51,840
Speaker 2: used or whether it's tech that the incredible Michael Douglas

401
00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:56,360
Speaker 2: used in the first movie. Like, I think that there

402
00:21:56,440 --> 00:22:04,280
Speaker 2: is some really interesting balancing going on for the magic elements,

403
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:08,960
Speaker 2: the cosmic elements, and the brutal violence that Dead Devil

404
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:10,600
Speaker 2: is no More. I was really shocked.

405
00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:13,280
Speaker 1: I'm the way that connecting Daredevil to the wider MCU

406
00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:17,520
Speaker 1: is really effective with a it's a great light touch. Rosie,

407
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:21,440
Speaker 1: you made a list of some good comics for folks

408
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:23,520
Speaker 1: who want to see Matt in action as a lawyer.

409
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:26,720
Speaker 2: Yes, so there's some really fun ones. I've written about

410
00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:30,440
Speaker 2: this quite extensively. During the Punisher Kills the Marvel Universe,

411
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:34,160
Speaker 2: you do get to see Matt playing the Punisher's lawyer,

412
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:37,400
Speaker 2: which is also great. But throughout history he has really

413
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:41,800
Speaker 2: done a great job playing the lawyer to some of

414
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:45,800
Speaker 2: the most wild characters in the MCU. In Sins of

415
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:49,080
Speaker 2: the Fathers, he is playing it to Spider Man, like

416
00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:53,200
Speaker 2: protecting Spider Man's rights for privacy so people don't get

417
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:56,320
Speaker 2: to know who he is. We get the Incredible Hulk

418
00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:59,679
Speaker 2: issue one point fifty two Hulks arrested and it's this

419
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:03,520
Speaker 2: huge plot line where essentially, in a very clever twist,

420
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:07,560
Speaker 2: Matt argues that the Hulk is mentally incompetent to stand

421
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:11,240
Speaker 2: trial and he proves it, and there is some early

422
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:14,119
Speaker 2: stuff in Da Devil number seven. This is one of

423
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:17,720
Speaker 2: my favorite ones where he is a good classic at

424
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:23,520
Speaker 2: Wallywood story where basically I love this arc. I love

425
00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:26,560
Speaker 2: this issue so much. It's so clever. Basically, nay More

426
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:30,919
Speaker 2: asks him to sue humanity and Matt is obviously like,

427
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:32,960
Speaker 2: I'm not going to do it, like I am a

428
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:37,280
Speaker 2: human bad choice. Name More recks everything, and it is

429
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 2: actually just completely delightful to see Matt Murdoch kind of

430
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:44,000
Speaker 2: come to terms with the fact that maybe he made

431
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:46,480
Speaker 2: the wrong choice, and in the end name More on

432
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 2: him become friends. But remember name Or used to be

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00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:51,680
Speaker 2: like a real human hater, so I do understand that's point,

434
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:55,359
Speaker 2: but I love it. We also in Spider Man Black Cat,

435
00:23:56,359 --> 00:24:00,960
Speaker 2: Matt gets to be Felicia Hardy's new lawyer, and that's

436
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:05,200
Speaker 2: really interesting because him and you know, ladies love Matt

437
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:09,000
Speaker 2: Murdoch and while she is sitting in Rikers Island, Matt

438
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 2: you know, decides to represent her. But it's very hard

439
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:15,520
Speaker 2: to represent people in the MCU, so him and Spider

440
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 2: Man do actually, you know, break her out that time.

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00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:20,760
Speaker 2: But I'm all for breaking people out of Ryker's Island.

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00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:23,680
Speaker 2: Another really fun one that I think people will enjoy

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00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 2: is that that in nineteen ninety seven there's a Venom

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00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:32,880
Speaker 2: on Trial mini series that's really fun where he basically argues,

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00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:34,879
Speaker 2: and I think I would love to see something like

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00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:36,880
Speaker 2: this in the MCU. I think you could really drill

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00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:41,240
Speaker 2: down into bringing Eddie Brock and Venom into the MCU

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00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,280
Speaker 2: without having to rely on the wild craziness in the

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00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:48,680
Speaker 2: fact that he's like a multi mass murderer, where Matt

450
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 2: essentially argues that the Symbia is culpable for the crimes

451
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 2: and not Eddie. And I think that's really really interesting.

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00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:01,159
Speaker 2: You know, he's represented. Captain America would say those are

453
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 2: some good ones to start with, but also we've recommended

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00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:07,119
Speaker 2: it a lot here. The Charles Saul Dead everyone is

455
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 2: really fantastic for this because, yeah, there's a lot of

456
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 2: lawyer and because Charles Saul is a lawyer, so you

457
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 2: get he was a lawyer. So those are really really fun,

458
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 2: good spaces that Matt has protected people. There's also a

459
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:21,439
Speaker 2: lot of fun Matt and she hooks stuff, which is

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00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 2: why they brought that into the show. And yet so

461
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:27,639
Speaker 2: just some quick, easy places to see Matt Murdoch doing

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00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,480
Speaker 2: a little bit of lawyering rather than just beating people

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00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 2: to a pulp. Okay, Jason, just before we go, he's

464
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 2: angry with Vanessa because she is like trying to bribe

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00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:43,879
Speaker 2: people and make the criminals all get along. But apparently

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00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 2: he also ordered a hit on someone and just had

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00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 2: him shot in the street. So where where where we

468
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,480
Speaker 2: think that? But we've seen We've seen this man kill

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00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:53,080
Speaker 2: a lot of people.

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00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we suspect that that's what he's done.

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00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, what do you think about his kind of moral

472
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 2: compass in his arc in the show? Where do you

473
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 2: see him going? Do you think him and Vanessa stick

474
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 2: it out? Like a little bit of a prediction as

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00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 2: we move into I think.

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00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 1: I think that Mayor Fisk will continue his run as mayor.

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00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 1: I think that they will be a confrontation over something

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00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:22,119
Speaker 1: some other thing, but that ultimately the battle will continue.

479
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 1: Matt will still be a lawyer, will not be disbarred.

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00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 1: Maybe I don't know that possible that he could be disbarred,

481
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:33,399
Speaker 1: and I think the Kingpin ultimately will think about I

482
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 1: think the Kingpin will consider outing Matt as Daredevil, which

483
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:41,879
Speaker 1: is something that has happened in the comics a few

484
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:45,400
Speaker 1: times and something that the Kingpin has often taken part of.

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00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:47,919
Speaker 1: So I think that at the end of this series,

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00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,199
Speaker 1: the Kingpin will still be Mayor of New York, and

487
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 1: I think that it's quite possible that Matt Murdoch is

488
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:55,200
Speaker 1: in a lot more trouble.

489
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,920
Speaker 2: Could also be very interesting to see that happen, and

490
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 2: then maybe have him connect with Spider Man, who we

491
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 2: know went through a similar to but is now forgotten.

492
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,920
Speaker 2: And Spider Man and Deed of are intrinsically connected. Guys.

493
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:08,639
Speaker 2: I know it seems crazy to say that, but I

494
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 2: think this show is high quality enough that we could

495
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 2: see a potential real MCU crossover aside from the great

496
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 2: world building they're already doing. So yeah, I'm very excited.

497
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:21,199
Speaker 2: I thought this was a brilliant episode. I love to

498
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 2: see Matt being a good lawyer. I loved seeing Hector

499
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:27,439
Speaker 2: Ayala white Tiger. That's such a cool version of the character.

500
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 2: I thought he was brilliant and I just can't wait

501
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:33,160
Speaker 2: to watch episode four. I'm so excited same, It's very

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00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 2: exciting great TV right now, Great day is happening.

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00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 1: Stay tuned extra Vision as we continue to cover some

504
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 1: of the great TV that's happening and some of our

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00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,200
Speaker 1: upcoming episodes. Monday, we're premiering a new game show, You're

506
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 1: Wrong Friend, where we'll be debating in that particular episode,

507
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 1: which maligned Marvel property is most worthy of rewatch. Is

508
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 1: it Ah the Eternals or is it Marvel's The Devenders.

509
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 1: Wednesday will review the ltimate episode of Severance episode two

510
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 1: oh nine. We cannot wait for that one. And on Thursday,

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00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 1: we've got another recap of Daredevil Born Again with episode

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00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:11,240
Speaker 1: one oh four. That's it for this episode, Thanks for listening, goodbye.

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Speaker 1: X ray Vision is hosted by Jason Sepcion and Rosie

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00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:16,880
Speaker 1: Knight and is a production of iHeart Podcasts.

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00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:20,640
Speaker 2: Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kletman.

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00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:22,919
Speaker 1: Our supervising producer is Abu Zafar.

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00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 2: Our producers are Common, Laurent Dean Jonathan and fay Wag.

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00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:30,160
Speaker 1: A theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme

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00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:31,480
Speaker 1: songs by Aaron Kaufman.

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00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 2: Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman and

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00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 2: Heidi Our. Discord moderate though