1 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:10,680 Speaker 1: Orgey, did you get the outline I sent you for 2 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 1: this episode? I did, well, I didn't hear back from 3 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: you about it. Oh well, I guess you should only 4 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:18,080 Speaker 1: worry if you do hear bad from me. Oh, that's right, 5 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:21,639 Speaker 1: I forgot. No reply also means something. Yeah, you know 6 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:24,040 Speaker 1: what it means. It's all good, or it means I 7 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:26,760 Speaker 1: didn't see your email. Or maybe it means I'll just 8 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 1: reply later. It sounds like a super position of quantum possibilities. 9 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:34,320 Speaker 1: That's right. Yes, I believe in Q mail, not email. 10 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 1: I hope you don't get entangled with your inbox, and 11 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 1: I am A box is a pretty big quantum mess, 12 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 1: to be honest, maybe one day it will collapse. Well, 13 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 1: you know what they say. I like to wave at 14 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 1: my emails Estate fly By. I wonder if Schrodinger got email. 15 00:00:49,760 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 1: He did and he didn't, right. Hi am worry On 16 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 1: my cartoonist and the co author of Frequently Asked Questions 17 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:13,479 Speaker 1: about the Universe. Hi, I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist 18 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:16,039 Speaker 1: and a professor at U C Irvine, and I'm gonna 19 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:19,960 Speaker 1: do my best not to spend most of this podcast chuckling. Yeah, 20 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 1: you should be explaining things Daniel not laughing. Well, we 21 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: got an email from a listener this morning complaining that 22 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 1: the chuckle time on the podcast has been going up. 23 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:30,320 Speaker 1: Oh really, am I getting too funny? Is that what 24 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:32,399 Speaker 1: you're saying? Or are you laughing at your own jokes? 25 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 1: I'm not sure. Just too much chuckling overall, more content 26 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 1: less chuckling, I see, more physics, less humor. Yeah, exactly, 27 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 1: stop these spontaneous expressions of fun. Please, boy, you can't 28 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 1: please everybody all the time. Well, we'll try to be 29 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 1: more serious about it. We'll try, but we'll probably fail. 30 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:52,279 Speaker 1: But anyways, Welcome to our podcast, Daniel and Jorge Explain 31 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: the Universe, a production of I Heart Radio in which 32 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 1: we try to be serious about questions of the universe 33 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 1: and have fun while doing it. We ask the biggest, 34 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 1: deepest questions about how everything out there works. What, in 35 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 1: the end are the fundamental rules of reality? Why is 36 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:11,360 Speaker 1: it even possible for us to understand them? Or is it? 37 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 1: Can we import the rules of the universe into our 38 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:17,679 Speaker 1: minds so that they actually make sense to us? On 39 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 1: this podcast we push against that frontier and trying to 40 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 1: make sure that you understand everything that humans do and 41 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:27,080 Speaker 1: do not know about the universe. That's right, because what 42 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:30,360 Speaker 1: could be more fun than exploring this humongous and complex 43 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 1: and complicated and amazing universe, And what could be more 44 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 1: chuckleworthy than thinking that us humans can one day understand 45 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:40,080 Speaker 1: all of it. It does seem sometimes like the universe 46 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 1: is playing a big joke on us. It's like, oh, 47 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 1: it seems to work this way. If equals m A 48 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 1: is totally right. No, actually, we were lying. It's a 49 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 1: completely different set of rules. Are you saying quantum mechanics. 50 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 1: It's just a big punchline. The whole thing is a 51 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:56,119 Speaker 1: psi op. Man. The universe is trying to psych us out. 52 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 1: Let's see what we can get these humans to believe 53 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 1: crazy stuff like true random nous. Well, you know we 54 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 1: are part of the universe. Does that mean we're playing 55 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 1: a joke on ourselves? Mmm? I suppose so, Yes, we 56 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 1: are psyopping ourselves. I mean we're the joke. You have 57 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 1: to say, you're the only one who doesn't get the 58 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:14,880 Speaker 1: joke that jokes on you. As long as I get 59 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 1: to hear the secrets of the universe, I'm happy if 60 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 1: somebody laughs at me at the same time. But it 61 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 1: isn't interesting and sometimes funny universe because it is so weird. 62 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 1: Especially Quantum mechanics is this weird theory about the universe. 63 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 1: It says that things are truly random, and that sometimes 64 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 1: there are multiple things that are true at the same time. 65 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 1: It is really amazing that we can spend thousands of 66 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 1: years developing an intuition for how the universe works, and 67 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 1: then a few hundred years describing it mathematically, only to 68 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 1: discover that at its core, at a deeper level, the 69 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 1: rules of the universe are completely different, totally foreign to us, 70 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 1: maybe even alien, and yet those alien rules somehow weave 71 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 1: themselves together so that at our scale and our experience, 72 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: they act in the way that's intuitive to us. It's 73 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 1: incredible that a difference aales the universe seems to follow 74 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 1: these totally different sets of laws, incongruent ideas about the 75 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 1: very nature of space and time and information, and yet 76 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 1: they weave themselves together at the interface. It's incredible. Yeah, 77 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 1: are you saying quantum mechanics is just a tiny little joke. 78 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:18,280 Speaker 1: It's only funny in small places. It's like ten to 79 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 1: the twenty six tiny jokes, which all add up to 80 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:24,359 Speaker 1: one hilarious chuckle. To one average bland experience of the 81 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 1: universe exactly until the universe collapses on the weight of 82 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 1: its own puns. But quantum mechanics says the universe gets 83 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 1: really weird at the very smallest scales, which maybe you 84 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 1: don't think affects you on an everyday basis, but it 85 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 1: actually does. You know, most of our electronics and a 86 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 1: lot of our communications, and all of our devices, they 87 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: all sort of are depend on our knowledge of quantum mechanics, 88 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 1: and as we try to understand the way that the 89 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 1: universe works, we tend to revert to this microscopic picture. 90 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 1: When we say we want to understand the universe, some 91 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 1: of us feel like we want to tear it apart 92 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 1: into the tiniest little pieces, figure out what are the 93 00:04:56,839 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 1: rules of those little pieces, how do they interact? And 94 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:01,839 Speaker 1: then how do you zoom back out to get the 95 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:04,480 Speaker 1: picture of the universe that we're familiar with. And so 96 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 1: often in quantum mechanics, we are thinking about little particles, 97 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 1: tiny little quantum objects, and what are the rules for 98 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 1: those things? Do they fly through space the way baseball does, 99 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:16,040 Speaker 1: or do they appear just in snapshots? How do they 100 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:19,239 Speaker 1: communicate information back and forth? And how does that change 101 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:21,919 Speaker 1: how we can communicate up here at the big, slow 102 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 1: human scale. That's right, because if quantum mechanics does lead 103 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:27,839 Speaker 1: you do some weird things that we didn't think about before, 104 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:30,920 Speaker 1: it might change the way that we can maybe make 105 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 1: devices or allow us to communicate between different points on Earth. Exactly. 106 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:38,479 Speaker 1: If the rules of quantum mechanics really are strange, alien 107 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:41,600 Speaker 1: to our intuition, then maybe we can make quantum mechanics 108 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 1: do things at our scale that are very weird that 109 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 1: we once thought might be impossible. Coming to the Apple 110 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:53,920 Speaker 1: Store soon alien iPhones? Is that what you're saying? Excuse 111 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:57,840 Speaker 1: my long chuckle there. That was pretty funny. Well, I'm sorry, man, 112 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 1: already going to get a lot of complaints. Stop laughing, Danny, 113 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 1: think that the chuckle time is just increasing. The first 114 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 1: rule of chuckle time is don't talk about chuckle time. 115 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:08,920 Speaker 1: It just makes more chuckle time. That's right. Although usually 116 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:11,680 Speaker 1: talking about the joke kills the joke. We've collapsed it again, 117 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:14,839 Speaker 1: and so quantum mechanics may open some interesting possibilities for 118 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 1: future technologies and so. On the podcast today, we'll be 119 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 1: tackling the question can you send messages without particles? Is 120 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:32,279 Speaker 1: that like sending emails without replies That happens all the time, actually, 121 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 1: but this has to do more with how information propagates 122 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 1: in a quantum universe. We like to think about everything 123 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:41,839 Speaker 1: happening in terms of the microscopic particles, and usually that 124 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 1: picture involves local interactions, meaning like one particle pushes against 125 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 1: another particle, which pushes against another. I think about how 126 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 1: electricity flows. You can think about just flowing down the wire, 127 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:55,720 Speaker 1: but if you zoom into the particles, it's one electron 128 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 1: jumping from spot to spot and pushing other electrons. You 129 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:00,919 Speaker 1: can build up this idea of electory city from the 130 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:04,040 Speaker 1: little microscopic particles and how they touch each other. Usually 131 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 1: there's this crucial bit where they need to be near 132 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 1: each other, where everything has to be local. Is that 133 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 1: kind of like how my wife communicates a lot to 134 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 1: me just by giving me certain looks. I think that's 135 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 1: actually telepathic, man, I think that might break the laws 136 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 1: of physics. Usually they're not good messages. I get the looks. 137 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: I don't know if we should be doing marriage therapy 138 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 1: on the podcast. We already have too many chuckles. Well, yeah, 139 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 1: because you know, no marriage needs more chuckles Every marriage 140 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 1: needs more chuckles. Man, humor is the best therapy the 141 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 1: tense and what they are chuckling at. You gotta take 142 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 1: your wife seriously, that's for sure. But yeah, usually communication 143 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:41,560 Speaker 1: involves some sort of interaction between particles, right, Even if 144 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 1: you're just giving somebody look to communicate something to them, 145 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 1: you're exchanging photons, right, that's right. Our picture of how 146 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 1: we communicate involves sending particles or waves through fields, which 147 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 1: you can also think of as particles. But everything involves 148 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 1: somehow wiggling a field or sending a particle using that 149 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 1: to communicate in form asian. Yeah, because I guess you know, 150 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 1: in the universe we have a certain speed of light, right, 151 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 1: a speed of information like you can't somehow, it seems, 152 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:11,000 Speaker 1: move things from one place to another without going faster 153 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 1: than the speed of light. That's right. It's pretty hard 154 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 1: coded into special relativity that no information can move faster 155 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 1: than the speed of light, and even quantum mechanics, which 156 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 1: does really weird things, doesn't violate that rule, although sometimes 157 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 1: it seems like it might. M And so I guess 158 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 1: the question here is, can you somehow communicate, send messages, 159 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 1: interact between two places in the universe without actually exchanging 160 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 1: a particle or wiggle in some kind of particle field. Exactly, 161 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 1: could you somehow send a message to your body on 162 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 1: Alpha Centauri without having to shoot him an electron or 163 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 1: a beam of photons or some other kind of particle 164 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:52,560 Speaker 1: or wave based information. It sounds like we're asking does 165 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 1: magic exist? You know, quantum mechanics feels like magic sometimes, 166 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 1: you know, it does things that we think are impossible. 167 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 1: You know, an electron can be here and then it 168 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 1: can be there without going in between, even if sometimes 169 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:09,440 Speaker 1: the spot in between is impossible for the electron to 170 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:11,680 Speaker 1: be in. You can have an electron appear on one 171 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:14,720 Speaker 1: side and then the other side of an infinite barrier. 172 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 1: It's crazy. That seems like magic, and yet we see 173 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:21,440 Speaker 1: it happen in our universe. Would you describe it as 174 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:25,080 Speaker 1: magic though, or is it maybe like scientific magic because 175 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 1: you can maybe you know, statistically predict what's going to happen. Yeah, 176 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:31,439 Speaker 1: it's only magic until we explain it. Then it's science again, 177 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 1: then it's not magical. Science has been ruining the magic 178 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 1: of the universe for hundreds of years well, as usually, 179 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:38,440 Speaker 1: we were wondering how many people had thought about this 180 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 1: question or think it's possible to maybe send messages without 181 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:45,600 Speaker 1: using particle or particle fields. So thank you very much 182 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 1: to our cadre of volunteers who answer these questions without 183 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:51,400 Speaker 1: any preparation to give us a sense for what people 184 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 1: are thinking about and to give you a sense what 185 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 1: everyone else out there is thinking. If you'd like to 186 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 1: participate for future episodes of the podcast, especially if you 187 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 1: you've never done so before and you're a long time listener, 188 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 1: please do reach out our email addresses questions at Daniel 189 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 1: and Jorge dot com. So think about it for a second. 190 00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:11,240 Speaker 1: Do you think it's possible in this universe to send 191 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 1: a message without using particles? Here's what people had to say. 192 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:18,679 Speaker 1: I think, no, you can't. Well, oh no, no no, 193 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:22,719 Speaker 1: because of like quantum computers and quantum entanglement. So theoretically, 194 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 1: if we have to quantum lee entangled particles, we could 195 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 1: send information and thus send a message between those two 196 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 1: particles without sending particles from one location to another. When 197 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about these questions, actually I'm thinking about quantum entanglement. 198 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:46,320 Speaker 1: How you can send you formation from one point to 199 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 1: another faster than the speed of light. Scientists hope this 200 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 1: will be it like quantum entanglement, but I don't know 201 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 1: too many information right now, I don't think No, I 202 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:04,200 Speaker 1: don't think that's possible. I think maybe the closest thing 203 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 1: to sending information without particles that were currently looking at 204 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:15,200 Speaker 1: is gravitational waves. But then how's that possible. I think 205 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:20,199 Speaker 1: that that's just a shift in gravitons, So no, I 206 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 1: don't think so. I think the only way to send 207 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 1: a message without sending any particles might be through quantum entanglement, 208 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: but I'm not even sure if that counts, since I'm 209 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 1: pretty sure we can't affect the state of the entangled particles. 210 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:35,079 Speaker 1: We can just observe them, So I'm not sure we 211 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:37,240 Speaker 1: can actually pass a message through that. That depends on 212 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 1: what you mean by particles. If you mean pheromons, then yes, 213 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:43,840 Speaker 1: you can send a message with argues and particles because 214 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 1: photons can carry information. But if you mean any particle 215 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 1: if you include photons, then you can't because I think 216 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:56,560 Speaker 1: you need some entity lack of photon that carries energy 217 00:11:57,240 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: to transfer information. Well, everything in the universe of ib 218 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 1: made of particles, so I'm not really sure how you 219 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:04,680 Speaker 1: would be able to send any message without them. But 220 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:07,200 Speaker 1: I'm also thinking maybe you could send a message with 221 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 1: a lack of particles. So say someone's on the moon 222 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 1: and you make a really big shadow with your hand 223 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 1: in a really powerful light, and that person on the 224 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 1: moon knows that when the shadow passes over them that 225 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 1: means X or Y, and I guess technically that would 226 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 1: be sending a message with a lack of particles, if 227 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:29,679 Speaker 1: that makes any sense, But otherwise I don't see any 228 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 1: other way. Al Right, not a lot of optimism. Most 229 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:37,080 Speaker 1: people are like, well, a few mentions of quantum entanglement. Yeah, 230 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 1: we have a pretty educated and listener crowd. On physics, 231 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 1: a few people said quantum entanglement, yeah, and quantum entangling 232 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 1: the sort of the right direction to think about, because 233 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:51,319 Speaker 1: that's the non local part of quantum mechanics, the fact 234 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:54,760 Speaker 1: that things can happen in a correlated way across space 235 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 1: even if things are causally separated. So that's definitely the 236 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 1: right direction to be thinking about, right. And somebody try 237 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 1: to make a distinction between like different kinds of particles, right, 238 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 1: because there are some matter particles like the stuff we're 239 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:09,680 Speaker 1: made out of, and then there are other particles, which 240 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 1: you know are more intangible exactly. In the end, we 241 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:14,680 Speaker 1: can think about all of those as particles, or you 242 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 1: can think about all of them as fields. In theoretical 243 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:20,680 Speaker 1: particle physics, this sort of this argument about whether fields 244 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 1: or particles are the most basic thing in the universe. 245 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 1: But fundamentally we're all talking about the same kind of stuff, 246 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:28,679 Speaker 1: like can you send a message without a field at all? 247 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 1: Or disturbing any field? Well, you know, some people think 248 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 1: that fields don't even exist, the fields are just like 249 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 1: a mathematical construct in our minds, that particles are the 250 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 1: only real thing because you don't ever see fields, right, 251 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:42,439 Speaker 1: You can't interact with the field except for seeing its 252 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:45,319 Speaker 1: effect on a particle. So some people don't even think 253 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 1: fields are real, that everything is just particles. But then 254 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:50,840 Speaker 1: those people are just imaginary too. So there's even a 255 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:53,880 Speaker 1: guy who developed a version of physics without fields and 256 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 1: even without numbers. What ironically his last name was Fields, ironic, 257 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 1: I say, you're can say ironically his name was whit 258 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 1: sund no Archery. Fields is a philosopher of physics, and 259 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 1: you word a book called Science Without Numbers, in which 260 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:10,680 Speaker 1: he argues that fields are just a made up thing 261 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 1: and you don't need them at all. Of course, he 262 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:15,079 Speaker 1: thinks he's real, you know, he's a field, and he 263 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 1: just wanted to be the only field in the universe, 264 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 1: the field field. But yeah, this is an interesting question. 265 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 1: Can you communicate without particles? And so let's dig into Daniel. 266 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 1: Let's start with, first of all, messaging with particles. How 267 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 1: does that work? How do we usually send information? So 268 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 1: almost all the information that we transmit use either particles 269 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 1: or waves, and really those two are equivalent. You can 270 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 1: think of every particle as a wave in some quantum field, 271 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 1: or if you like, you can think of quantum fields. 272 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 1: It's just like an infinite sum of possible particles. It's 273 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 1: all really fundamentally equivalent. You know, when you send an email, 274 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 1: for example, what are you doing. You're sending a message 275 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 1: along some wires, and those messages are wiggles in those 276 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 1: little fields. You send a beam of light at somebody 277 00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 1: right your friend across the street has an open window, 278 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 1: and you've turned your flashlight on and off. Then you 279 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 1: are sending beams of photons, which you can think of 280 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: either as ripples in the electromagnetic field of the universe 281 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 1: or little packets, little particles that are flying through space. 282 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 1: Either way, you're transmitting that information through particles and fields. Right. 283 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 1: Even when you talk on your cell phone out there, 284 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 1: you're using light as well, right, Like your cell phone 285 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:24,320 Speaker 1: is transmitting light at the really high frequency that you 286 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 1: can't see, but it's it's light, right, And then the 287 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 1: cell phone antenna and towers out there are also communicating 288 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 1: with your cell phone through light exactly. And you even 289 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 1: have transformation of information there because the neural pulses go 290 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 1: through your mind and those are electrical pulses, and then 291 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 1: your mouth transforms them into sound waves, which is just 292 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 1: shaking of the air. Then the microphone in your cell 293 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 1: phone translates them back into a different kind of electrical pulses, 294 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 1: which then get emitted by your phone as electromagnetic pulses, 295 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 1: because that's just another kind of photon, one with very 296 00:15:56,680 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 1: long frequency. And in all of those steps we have 297 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 1: a micro pas to call picture of what's going on. 298 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 1: Atoms pushing against other atoms, or photons flying through the 299 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 1: electromagnetic fields that fill the whole universe. It's always local. 300 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 1: It's always like one thing pushing another thing. It's like 301 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:15,360 Speaker 1: a Rube Goldberg machine. Right, Everything is coming into sort 302 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 1: of effective contact with something else. Right, And even your 303 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 1: voice uses the electromagnetic radiation and forces, right, Like when 304 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 1: the air particles are pushing against each other, they're pushing 305 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:28,880 Speaker 1: against each other using the electromagnetic force, which means they're 306 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:32,240 Speaker 1: also exchanging photons. Right, Yeah, that's exactly right. The reason 307 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 1: that air particles don't pass through each other, they can't 308 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:38,880 Speaker 1: occupy the same space, is primarily because their electrons bump 309 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 1: against each other. They resist and repel. And you're right, 310 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 1: that's done either through electromagnetic fields or virtual photons, depending 311 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 1: on the picture that you prefer. But all that stuff 312 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 1: requires some sort of passage of wiggles in fields or particles. Yeah, 313 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:57,320 Speaker 1: even your voice is light, pure like kind of right, 314 00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 1: even when I'm talking about heavy topics or emanating topics 315 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 1: as well, or chuckling to the chuckles are made of 316 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:05,479 Speaker 1: pure light as well, Daniel. And light is really one 317 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 1: of our primary ways to interact in the universe. When 318 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 1: stars send us light from across the vast distances of space, 319 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 1: those are also photons. It's created a particle which is 320 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 1: shot out from the surface of that sun and then 321 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:21,639 Speaker 1: flown to many megaparsecs before it hits your eyeball. That 322 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:24,879 Speaker 1: information that the star exists and what it's temperature is 323 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 1: and where it is comes along with the photon. Yeah, 324 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 1: and that's not the only particle we get information from 325 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:33,680 Speaker 1: and from the universe, right, And we also get lots 326 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 1: of other particles coming at us and telling us things 327 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 1: about the universe. Yeah. Now we have multi messenger astronomy, 328 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:41,480 Speaker 1: which means that we can see things out there in 329 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 1: the universe, not just using photons. So, for example, we 330 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 1: can see other particles. Protons hit the atmosphere at very 331 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 1: high speed. Some of them are generated by the Sun, 332 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:53,440 Speaker 1: some of them come from outside the Solar system. These 333 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:56,199 Speaker 1: things we call cosmic rays can carry a lot of 334 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 1: information about what's going on out there in the galaxy. 335 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:02,399 Speaker 1: So that's only not a photon, right. A proton is 336 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 1: a matter particle. It's made out of corks, which each 337 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 1: are ripples in the cork fields that fill the universe. 338 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 1: But just like a photon is a ripple in the 339 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:14,719 Speaker 1: electromagnetic field, these corks are ripples in the cork fields 340 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:17,720 Speaker 1: and they carry information exactly the same way that a 341 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:21,199 Speaker 1: photon does. Right. But then there are gravitational waves though, right, 342 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 1: those are a sort of real information we're getting about 343 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:26,560 Speaker 1: the universe, something communicating something to us. But do we 344 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 1: know if there are particles. Yeah, that's a great question. 345 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:33,719 Speaker 1: And there's a lot of confusion about gravitational waves versus gravitons. 346 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:37,400 Speaker 1: So gravitational waves happen to anytime anything in the universe 347 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:41,040 Speaker 1: with mass accelerates, like if two black holes fall into 348 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 1: each other, the acceleration as they fall in their circling 349 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 1: around each other generates gravitational waves, really big gravitational waves 350 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:50,600 Speaker 1: that we can detect. And this is a prediction of 351 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 1: general relativity, which is a non quantum theory. It's a 352 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:57,080 Speaker 1: classical theory. It says that space and time are continuous 353 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:00,080 Speaker 1: and everything has a smooth path, really in conflict with 354 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:02,520 Speaker 1: our quantum view of the universe, but we see it. 355 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:04,879 Speaker 1: We see these things happening. We see these ripples in 356 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:09,119 Speaker 1: space and time. These are gravitational waves and their classical objects. 357 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:11,639 Speaker 1: But you know, there are waves in a field and 358 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:14,160 Speaker 1: they carry information and move at the speed of light, 359 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 1: which is kind of awesome. We don't know if they're 360 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 1: made of gravitons. It might be that gravity is in 361 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 1: the end a quantum field theory like the other forces, 362 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:27,360 Speaker 1: and you can describe in terms of tiny little packets. 363 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:29,639 Speaker 1: But those packets, if they exist, they're too small for 364 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:32,200 Speaker 1: us to see. We're just barely able to even see 365 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:35,919 Speaker 1: gravitational waves. And one gravitational wave might be made out 366 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:39,679 Speaker 1: of an enormous number of tiny gravitons, so small that 367 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 1: we can't resolve them, the way like a wave in 368 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 1: the ocean is made of lots of droplets, but we 369 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:48,639 Speaker 1: can't separate them necessarily. Wait, so then, if gravitational waves 370 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 1: are not made out of particles, and we've answered the 371 00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 1: question of the episode, I could send the message using 372 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:57,359 Speaker 1: gravitational waves without particles. Yeah, I suppose. So you can 373 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 1: send information without particles if gravity is not a quantum theory. 374 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:04,199 Speaker 1: But you'd still be sending information via waves. And in 375 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:07,160 Speaker 1: the end, particles and waves, really, what's the difference. They're 376 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 1: just two attempts by the human mind to describe something 377 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:13,719 Speaker 1: about the universe, which, in the end is unfamiliar. You know. 378 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 1: Physics is the effort to describe the unfamiliar in terms 379 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:18,920 Speaker 1: of the familiar. And the reason we have an argument 380 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 1: about whether to describe these things in terms of particles 381 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 1: or fields or waves is because none of those are 382 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:26,960 Speaker 1: really the right description. They're just sort of like our 383 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 1: attempt to capture them in terms of something we know, 384 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:32,159 Speaker 1: like when you drink a really tasty glass of wine 385 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 1: and you're like, hm, hmmm, it's like vanilla and notes 386 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:36,960 Speaker 1: of oak or whatever. Now those aren't really there in 387 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 1: the wine. They're just your efforts to describe them in 388 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,800 Speaker 1: terms of a language. You know, it sounds like you're 389 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 1: trying to get out of something there, But I think 390 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 1: what you're saying is that, you know, it's kind of 391 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 1: hard to imagine communicating something across a distance in this 392 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:54,479 Speaker 1: universe without creating some sort of ripple that you know, 393 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:56,920 Speaker 1: moves through spaces. I think that's what you're saying. And 394 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 1: gravitational waves are technically ripples through some sort of me 395 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 1: m or some sort of field in the universe. And 396 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 1: so the question then maybe is like can you actually 397 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 1: communicate without causing any ripples in the universe. Yeah, we 398 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:12,440 Speaker 1: think about information is propagating through the universe. We think 399 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 1: of everything is local. Something passes a note to the 400 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:16,920 Speaker 1: next thing, which passes a note to the next thing. 401 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:20,159 Speaker 1: You can't just have information appear somewhere far away. We 402 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:23,199 Speaker 1: think we have this intuition that the universe seems to 403 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:26,679 Speaker 1: be local, that information moves and propagates, so that to 404 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 1: send information you've got to create some sort of ripple 405 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:31,439 Speaker 1: in a field. And think about really what a wave 406 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:33,440 Speaker 1: is like. If you think about a guitar string with 407 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 1: a wave on it, why does it wave anyway? It 408 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:38,720 Speaker 1: waves because one bit of the string is then wiggling 409 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 1: the next bit, which is wiggling the next bit, which 410 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 1: is wiggling the next bit. Information about the wave is 411 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:46,720 Speaker 1: flowing down the string the same way like you're driving 412 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 1: down the freeway. Why is everybody in front of you 413 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 1: breaking because the person in front of them is breaking 414 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,960 Speaker 1: because their information is local. They just respond to the 415 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 1: person in front of them. So the whole idea of 416 00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:59,359 Speaker 1: a wave is sort of comes out of information being 417 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 1: local and propagating locally. Right, all right, Well, it seems 418 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:07,080 Speaker 1: kind of impossible to maybe communicate or send information across 419 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,760 Speaker 1: the universe without causing any kind of a ripple. But 420 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 1: let's see if that is actually true, and so let's 421 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:14,480 Speaker 1: get into how we might be able to do that. 422 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:29,440 Speaker 1: But first let's take a quick break. Alright, we're trying 423 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:32,960 Speaker 1: to send I guess Q mail messages without causing a 424 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:35,679 Speaker 1: ripple in the universe. What are you trying to do here? 425 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: Then you're trying to send messages? Will let anybody finding out? 426 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 1: I think it could be pretty awesome to be able 427 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:43,200 Speaker 1: to send information without creating any ripples or sending any particles. 428 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:45,520 Speaker 1: It's just be something new that we didn't think was 429 00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:48,879 Speaker 1: possible before. It might open up new technologies that we 430 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:51,719 Speaker 1: can't even imagine today, because it would like break down 431 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 1: one of our basic intuitions about how the universe works. 432 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:57,720 Speaker 1: You know, we're pretty sure that we're pretty wrong about 433 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:00,639 Speaker 1: some of these assumptions about the universe, things we've assumed 434 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:03,160 Speaker 1: for a long long time. One of them probably has 435 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:05,720 Speaker 1: to go. We just don't really know which yet. Yeah, 436 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:07,840 Speaker 1: I'm sure there are many politicians who would love to 437 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 1: have the technology to send text messages without leaving a 438 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 1: trace or a ripple through anything. Wow, you went straight 439 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 1: for the cynical application, So those usually come first. We're 440 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,200 Speaker 1: thinking about how to pitch this to Facebook next, right, 441 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 1: I'm sure they're on it. You know. The waste time 442 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 1: chuckling about these things. But I think you were saying 443 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:30,240 Speaker 1: earlier how physicists sort of look at the universe and 444 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 1: how things interact in it as being local or non local. 445 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:36,119 Speaker 1: So local just kind of means that you can't affect 446 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 1: something that's really far away from you, kind of, right, 447 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 1: Like the universe seems to have a sort of a 448 00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 1: short range of things. If I want to communicate something 449 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 1: to you, I have to do it through a series 450 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:48,040 Speaker 1: of intermediary particles or things like that, right, or fields 451 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:51,000 Speaker 1: exactly have your people talk to my people. That's how 452 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:53,280 Speaker 1: these things get done. On the other hand, we also 453 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:57,359 Speaker 1: know that quantum mechanics has some very strange, very non 454 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 1: local features to it. It seems to be able to 455 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 1: do things across space time that sounds sort of impossible. Yeah, 456 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:07,160 Speaker 1: And so that's maybe the question we're asking here today 457 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 1: is can we exploit can we use some of this 458 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 1: weird quantum mechanical magic to maybe send messages without causing 459 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:16,600 Speaker 1: a ripple in any of the quantum fields. And we 460 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:20,879 Speaker 1: heard several of our listeners suggest maybe using quantum entanglement, 461 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:24,400 Speaker 1: which is a great idea because quantum entanglement really highlights 462 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 1: the non local nature of quantum mechanics. You know, so 463 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:31,120 Speaker 1: very briefly, the idea of entanglement. You have two particles 464 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:34,239 Speaker 1: that are somehow connected. You know something about them, like 465 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 1: if one is spin up, the other one has to 466 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:38,400 Speaker 1: be spinned down because of the way they were created. 467 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:40,639 Speaker 1: You know, or imagine you have two balls and you 468 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:42,159 Speaker 1: know that only one of them can be read and 469 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:43,879 Speaker 1: the other one has to be blue. But maybe you 470 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:46,600 Speaker 1: don't know which is which. So quantum entanglement says, you 471 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:49,280 Speaker 1: have these two particles, you know something about them overall 472 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:52,320 Speaker 1: that makes them have like opposite states or different colors 473 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 1: or something, but you don't know which is which. They 474 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:56,359 Speaker 1: just have to be in the opposite states. And quantum 475 00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,399 Speaker 1: mechanics says that they can stay uncertain. That you can 476 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 1: have one particle have a possibility of being up in 477 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:04,400 Speaker 1: the possibility of being down, and the other particle also 478 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:08,119 Speaker 1: maintained both of those possibilities. I take these two particles 479 00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:11,400 Speaker 1: and pull them really far apart a kilometer, ten kilometers, 480 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,760 Speaker 1: a thousand kilometers or whatever. They can maintain those possibilities. 481 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,160 Speaker 1: And if you look at the first particle and you say, oh, 482 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:19,560 Speaker 1: it's up, that means that the other particle, even though 483 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,240 Speaker 1: it's super duper far away and there's no time for 484 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 1: information to get to it, all of a sudden goes 485 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:28,720 Speaker 1: from having both possibilities to having to be down because 486 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 1: the first one was up, the second one has to 487 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:33,200 Speaker 1: be down. You know that because of how they were created. 488 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 1: The quantum entanglement definitely is a weird, non local part 489 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,680 Speaker 1: of quantum mechanics. I guess that's the confusing part about 490 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 1: this whole entanglement thing, right. It's that like if you 491 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 1: you would think that if I had two balls, one 492 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:46,359 Speaker 1: red and one blue, and I put them in a 493 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:48,280 Speaker 1: bag and I make them up, then I take one 494 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:50,520 Speaker 1: out without looking at it, and I drive it over 495 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,000 Speaker 1: to the other side of the country. Obviously, if I 496 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 1: see that it's red and the one that stayed behind 497 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:57,040 Speaker 1: is going to be blue, or or if I look 498 00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:58,680 Speaker 1: at the one over there and it's blue and then 499 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 1: this one has to be red, that's it. It It seems obvious. 500 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:03,560 Speaker 1: But I guess the tricky thing about quantum mechanics is 501 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:07,320 Speaker 1: that they're not balls, right, They're quantum mechanical objects. Like 502 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 1: when you separate the two balls, it's not like one 503 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:11,480 Speaker 1: of them is red and you just don't see it. 504 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,680 Speaker 1: It's like it's they're both both red and blue at 505 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:18,679 Speaker 1: the same time. In quantum mechanics, they're both actually undetermined, right, 506 00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,880 Speaker 1: the universe hasn't decided which one is red and which 507 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,720 Speaker 1: one is blue. This this whole beautiful series of experiments 508 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:28,120 Speaker 1: in Bell's experiments that asked the question, as the universe 509 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,879 Speaker 1: actually decided in advance, is it really determined and we 510 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 1: just don't know the answer, or is it actually undetermined 511 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,119 Speaker 1: the whole time? And we'll have a whole episode about 512 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:39,679 Speaker 1: Bell's experiments soon. But those experiments determine that there's no 513 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:43,359 Speaker 1: local hidden variables. There's no information that's traveling along with 514 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,439 Speaker 1: those particles that somehow determines which one is red and 515 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:48,560 Speaker 1: which one is blue. That you have some sort of 516 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:52,359 Speaker 1: nonlocal effect. They're either they're communicating somehow, or there's some 517 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:56,760 Speaker 1: sort of like global plan that affects everything. Right, And 518 00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,200 Speaker 1: I guess from a lay person point of view, like 519 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:02,760 Speaker 1: it's hard to swallow, you know, Like you I would think, like, hey, 520 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,440 Speaker 1: it's not that the ball is red and blue, it's 521 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:07,760 Speaker 1: just you just don't know what it is. But inside 522 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,240 Speaker 1: the bag, the ball knows if it's red or blue. Right, 523 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,480 Speaker 1: that's our intuition, because that's the way that our world works. Right. 524 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:15,880 Speaker 1: We think that there's a truth that everything is determined. 525 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 1: We just don't have all the information. But quantum mechanics 526 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:21,359 Speaker 1: really does seem to operate differently, really does seem to 527 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:24,119 Speaker 1: follow very different rules. That's what I was talking about earlier, 528 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,600 Speaker 1: that there are these weird, strange, almost alien ideas about 529 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 1: how the universe works which really fly in the face 530 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 1: of the things that we expected to do, and maybe 531 00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:35,760 Speaker 1: that would let us build on those properties to do 532 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,600 Speaker 1: crazy bonkers things we thought were impossible. You know, whenever 533 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,040 Speaker 1: we talk about entanglement on the podcast, get a few 534 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,719 Speaker 1: emails from folks who ask, isn't it possible to use 535 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:47,840 Speaker 1: entanglements somehow to communicate faster than light? Because it seems 536 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:51,440 Speaker 1: like there's this faster than light process here you're looking 537 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:53,439 Speaker 1: at one of the particles and deciding whether it's up 538 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:57,480 Speaker 1: or down. Somehow the other one instantaneously goes from undetermined 539 00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,719 Speaker 1: to determined, either up or down. So several listeners have 540 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:03,119 Speaker 1: emailed me with the scheme trying to use this to 541 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,879 Speaker 1: send information faster than light by, for example, collapse in 542 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:09,399 Speaker 1: one particle and noticing on the other end that the 543 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:13,720 Speaker 1: particles collapsed, using that to send information somehow. Unfortunately, that 544 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:17,160 Speaker 1: doesn't work because you can't tell whether your particle's wave 545 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,880 Speaker 1: function is collapsed. You can just measure it. You can say, oh, 546 00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:22,720 Speaker 1: mine is red or blue. You can't tell whether the 547 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:25,800 Speaker 1: other person has measured their particle or not. So, as 548 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:27,760 Speaker 1: far as we know, there's no way to use this 549 00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 1: to send information faster than light. However, it does seem 550 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,960 Speaker 1: like there is something nonlocal going on, so maybe we 551 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,320 Speaker 1: just need to be more clever about it, right, I 552 00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:40,280 Speaker 1: wonder maybe an interesting analogy to flesh out here is like, 553 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:43,560 Speaker 1: instead of having balls that are painted blue and red, 554 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:46,880 Speaker 1: maybe they're like transparent balls and they have a little 555 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:50,400 Speaker 1: led lights inside of them that turn red or blue. 556 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 1: And so when you put them together inside of the bag, 557 00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:56,720 Speaker 1: they somehow make the arrangement that one of them is 558 00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 1: going to turn blue the other one turns red, and 559 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:00,239 Speaker 1: if the other one turns red, the other is going 560 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:02,800 Speaker 1: to turn blue. They make that arrangement, and then you 561 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:04,960 Speaker 1: take the ball off and you separate them, and you 562 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:06,560 Speaker 1: take one to the other side of the country, and 563 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:09,320 Speaker 1: you keep one of them. Now, I think the magic 564 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 1: sort of happens if I look at the one I 565 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:15,000 Speaker 1: have here and it turns blue. Somehow the one and 566 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:16,880 Speaker 1: the other on the other side of the country has 567 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,840 Speaker 1: to know to turn red. But they're separated by a 568 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:23,200 Speaker 1: huge amount of space, and yet somehow that information is 569 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:26,680 Speaker 1: communicated instantaneously. That's kind of the magic of it, right, 570 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:28,440 Speaker 1: it is the magic. And one thing I think to 571 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:32,400 Speaker 1: point out there is that the correlation is created locally. 572 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,000 Speaker 1: Like you talked about them making some arrangement. They were 573 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:36,840 Speaker 1: next to each other when they did that, right when 574 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:38,720 Speaker 1: they said, if I'm going to be blue, you got 575 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,480 Speaker 1: to be red. That was a local conversation. That was 576 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:44,680 Speaker 1: an agreement made with your neighbor, and then you separated 577 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:48,560 Speaker 1: the two particles. The correlation, however, was created locally. I 578 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:50,960 Speaker 1: think that's an important hint for like how this works 579 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:54,000 Speaker 1: in the universe, that these correlations are always created locally. 580 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:55,960 Speaker 1: All right, well, what is it a clue to like, 581 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 1: how can you use this to maybe communicate faster than 582 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,600 Speaker 1: light or without RiPP playing the universe. The basic idea 583 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:05,240 Speaker 1: is to use these quantum probabilities to somehow communicate. So 584 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:08,280 Speaker 1: if you can like communicate via the quantum probabilities but 585 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:12,320 Speaker 1: not the actual waves, and so there's this ingenious experiment 586 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,040 Speaker 1: where you take photons and you split them in half, 587 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:16,560 Speaker 1: and if you look for this online is part of 588 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,880 Speaker 1: the quantum bomb detector experiment. But you don't need a bomb. 589 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 1: I think that just makes it more confusing. So we're 590 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:22,960 Speaker 1: going to simplify it a little bit. But you have 591 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 1: this beam of photons, and the first thing that happens 592 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:28,440 Speaker 1: is the beam. It's a beam splitter. This is like 593 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 1: a mirror that's half silvered, and it splits part of 594 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 1: the beam in one way and the other part of 595 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:35,400 Speaker 1: the beam the other way. The important thing to think 596 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,400 Speaker 1: about is what happens if you shoot one photon at 597 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,000 Speaker 1: this beam, it has a fifty percent chance of going 598 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:42,840 Speaker 1: one way and a fifty percent chance of going the 599 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:45,960 Speaker 1: other way. So, because this is a quantum mechanical object, 600 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:48,560 Speaker 1: if you're not looking at it, it it sort of does both. 601 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:51,480 Speaker 1: That has a probability to go left and a probability 602 00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:53,720 Speaker 1: to go right. Okay, so now you have your beam 603 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:56,960 Speaker 1: and it's split into like two probabilistic halves. Now put 604 00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,920 Speaker 1: some mirrors into the beam's come back together and read 605 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:03,000 Speaker 1: joined them again with a second beam splitter. So the 606 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,200 Speaker 1: second beam splitter can now sort of undo the splitting 607 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 1: of the meat. So you have a beam of light 608 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:10,440 Speaker 1: which you split and then brought back together into a 609 00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:13,160 Speaker 1: single beam. What's not like you actually split the beam. 610 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,520 Speaker 1: It's just that you give the photon two possibilities to go. 611 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:18,720 Speaker 1: You can go right or it can go left right 612 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:22,080 Speaker 1: exactly for an individual photon, it has possibilities to go 613 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,280 Speaker 1: left or to go right. And then later down the 614 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 1: road you sort of bring those two possibilities together so 615 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:29,560 Speaker 1: that there's only that one photon. And this is like 616 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,240 Speaker 1: the double slit experiment. If you don't look to see 617 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 1: which path of photon takes, then it has a probability 618 00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 1: to go left and the probability to go right. And 619 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 1: those quantum waves do both right, and the quantum waves 620 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 1: can do things like interfere with each other. So now 621 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,480 Speaker 1: there's a crucial step. When you bring these two photons 622 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:48,800 Speaker 1: back together. You make one path a tiny little bit longer, 623 00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,040 Speaker 1: like a half wave length longer, so that they will 624 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:53,560 Speaker 1: interfere with each other, and just this one way. So 625 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:55,720 Speaker 1: the beam goes in a certain direction. So call that 626 00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:58,600 Speaker 1: detector a You split the beam's probabilities, you bring them back, 627 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 1: and you interfere them in this special way, so they 628 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,239 Speaker 1: will go in this certain direction. Detector A, so they 629 00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:07,640 Speaker 1: have to interfere in just this way to hit this detector. Okay, Now, 630 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,080 Speaker 1: if there wasn't interference, if you like blocked one of 631 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:11,960 Speaker 1: the beam paths, then the light would have go on 632 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:14,040 Speaker 1: only one beam path. They would hit the beam splitter 633 00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:16,480 Speaker 1: and it would either go left or right after that 634 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,400 Speaker 1: beam splitter. If two detectors, they're like A and B. 635 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 1: A is what happens if you have both paths live 636 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:25,280 Speaker 1: because they interfere in just the right way, so they 637 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:27,600 Speaker 1: always go to A. But if one of them is blocked, 638 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:29,800 Speaker 1: then the photon has just hit the beam splitter and 639 00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,040 Speaker 1: they can go either left or right at the end 640 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:33,960 Speaker 1: of the path. Okay, I think you're saying that I 641 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:36,960 Speaker 1: take a photon, I give it two possible paths to 642 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:40,160 Speaker 1: go on, and then I merged those paths, and so 643 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,920 Speaker 1: quantum mechanically, it's doing some weird quantum me kind of 644 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:45,560 Speaker 1: go things in the middle because it's sort of going 645 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:47,280 Speaker 1: or left and right at the same time. But then 646 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:49,160 Speaker 1: at the end you set up two ways to detect 647 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:53,000 Speaker 1: what happens either the two things merged together or one 648 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:56,600 Speaker 1: of those possibilities got blocked exactly, and if the two 649 00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:59,400 Speaker 1: things merged together, then it goes to detector A. If 650 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:01,240 Speaker 1: one of them got blocked and only one of the 651 00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:03,880 Speaker 1: possibilities is live, that half the time it goes to 652 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:05,520 Speaker 1: A and half the time it goes to BE. So 653 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:08,200 Speaker 1: the key thing is that it only goes to BE 654 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,960 Speaker 1: when there's one path live. If both paths are possible, 655 00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:14,120 Speaker 1: it always goes to A. So if it goes to 656 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:17,800 Speaker 1: detector B, that means that only one path was possible, Okay, 657 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:20,760 Speaker 1: and very possible. You mean, like I put an obstruction 658 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,720 Speaker 1: in between one of the possibilities for this photon to 659 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:26,520 Speaker 1: go through. Exactly. So now put some device along one 660 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:28,960 Speaker 1: of the paths that you can control, some gate that 661 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:32,240 Speaker 1: you can close to block the possibility, right, So then 662 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:35,080 Speaker 1: what happens. So now the photon can't go along both 663 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,280 Speaker 1: paths simultaneously. It has to choose. This is just like 664 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:40,880 Speaker 1: in the double slit experiment. When you add a detector 665 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:43,320 Speaker 1: to one of the slits, it collapses the wave function. 666 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:46,640 Speaker 1: It doesn't allow it to maintain this uncertainty. It's like 667 00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:48,640 Speaker 1: looking at the balls in the bags that we were 668 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,200 Speaker 1: talking about earlier. So now the photon has to either 669 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:53,320 Speaker 1: go on one path or the other. It has to 670 00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:55,760 Speaker 1: go left or right at the first beam splitter. It 671 00:33:55,880 --> 00:34:00,760 Speaker 1: can't maintain both possibilities. So either it goes into the obstacle, right, 672 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:02,600 Speaker 1: it hits your gate and it gets squashed and you 673 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:05,040 Speaker 1: don't get any beam on the other side. Right. That's 674 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:08,440 Speaker 1: one possibility. Another possibility is that it doesn't that it 675 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:11,480 Speaker 1: goes along the no obstacle path on the open path, 676 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:13,600 Speaker 1: and then when it gets to the end of the experiment, 677 00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:16,359 Speaker 1: it either goes left or right into Detector A or B. 678 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,360 Speaker 1: The cool thing is that if it hits Detector B, 679 00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:22,759 Speaker 1: that means that only one path was alive, because the 680 00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:24,600 Speaker 1: only way it can get to detector B is if 681 00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:27,880 Speaker 1: there is no interference both paths are alive. It always 682 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,480 Speaker 1: goes to Detector A only one path is alive, then 683 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:32,520 Speaker 1: half the time it goes to either one. So that's 684 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:34,439 Speaker 1: kind of cool because it means that if it hits 685 00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,440 Speaker 1: Detector B, it went along the path that didn't have 686 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:39,759 Speaker 1: the obstacle. Okay, you kind of lost me a little 687 00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:42,600 Speaker 1: bite a while back. So I have this set up right, 688 00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:45,440 Speaker 1: and there's a both an obstacle and a device that 689 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:47,399 Speaker 1: I put it on on one of the paths or 690 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:50,239 Speaker 1: there's only one obstacle, and I control that obstacle. Yeah, 691 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:51,839 Speaker 1: you can control. It's like a gate that you can 692 00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:54,000 Speaker 1: close or open. You can create an obstacle or you 693 00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:57,279 Speaker 1: can remove it. Okay, If I'm blocking it, then the 694 00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:01,040 Speaker 1: photon can only go through, for example, the left path, 695 00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:04,040 Speaker 1: and if I open it, then it goes through both 696 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:07,200 Speaker 1: and I should get a different signal at the end. Exactly. 697 00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:09,440 Speaker 1: If you open it, then you both possibilities like we 698 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:11,880 Speaker 1: talked about earlier, and the interfere in this way so 699 00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:14,279 Speaker 1: that the beam always goes to detector A. But if 700 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:16,919 Speaker 1: I activate my obstacle and I block one side, then 701 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,719 Speaker 1: it can either go to A or B. Right, exactly, 702 00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:23,080 Speaker 1: because it has to choose the left path or the 703 00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:26,360 Speaker 1: right path. Now right, both possibilities are not allowed, and 704 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:28,160 Speaker 1: so it Ethan needs to decide am I hitting the 705 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:30,960 Speaker 1: obstacle or am I taking the other path? Just like 706 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:34,040 Speaker 1: in the double slit experiment, it can maintain the possibility 707 00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:36,080 Speaker 1: of coming out of either slit as long as you 708 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,000 Speaker 1: don't look. In this experiment, now we're looking. By adding 709 00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:42,000 Speaker 1: an obstacle, we're insisting that we know which path of 710 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:46,120 Speaker 1: photon went on, so it destroys this quantum mechanical possibility. Right, 711 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:48,760 Speaker 1: I'm blogging the right paths, and so now the photon 712 00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:51,520 Speaker 1: it has to go through the left path if I 713 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:53,839 Speaker 1: receive it at the end exactly. So half the time 714 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:56,440 Speaker 1: you don't get any photon out because it hits the obstacle. 715 00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:58,520 Speaker 1: The other half the time it does decide to go 716 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:01,120 Speaker 1: on the left path, and then it's the only beam 717 00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:03,400 Speaker 1: that arrives at the second beam splitter, and so it 718 00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:06,440 Speaker 1: goes fifty left and right because there's nothing else to 719 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:09,560 Speaker 1: interfere with it. Okay, So I set up this complicated experiment, 720 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:12,440 Speaker 1: and then what do I see? And what does that 721 00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:15,320 Speaker 1: tell us about communicating without rippling? So if the obstacle 722 00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:18,319 Speaker 1: is not there, you always see detector A. If the 723 00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:21,359 Speaker 1: obstacle is there, then twenty five percent of the time 724 00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,399 Speaker 1: you see the photon in detector B. And that's kind 725 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:26,960 Speaker 1: of cool because what that means is you can detect 726 00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:31,439 Speaker 1: that the obstacle is there without sending a particle to it. Right, 727 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,080 Speaker 1: the photon only goes through the open path, the one 728 00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:37,640 Speaker 1: that doesn't have the obstacle. So now I'm detecting that 729 00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,160 Speaker 1: there's an obstacle along the right path by sending a 730 00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:44,160 Speaker 1: photon along the left path, because now there's no possibility 731 00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:46,840 Speaker 1: on the right path to do the quantum interference with 732 00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:49,120 Speaker 1: the left half of the photon. Right. But it seems 733 00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:52,759 Speaker 1: like then you're just communicating by blocking things, right. It's 734 00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:55,759 Speaker 1: sort of like, you know, the reason that I see 735 00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:58,000 Speaker 1: my head in front of me is because it's blocking 736 00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:00,520 Speaker 1: the photons that are coming from the wall behind it. 737 00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:03,319 Speaker 1: So isn't that also the same thing? It sounds sort 738 00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:05,200 Speaker 1: of like the same thing, right. It sounds like saying, well, 739 00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:07,480 Speaker 1: what if I just send two messengers and if one 740 00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:09,560 Speaker 1: of them gets blocked, then I know that there's a 741 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:12,560 Speaker 1: block there. Right. But here we have not sent a 742 00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:16,040 Speaker 1: photon along the other path. We've only sent the quantum 743 00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:20,200 Speaker 1: mechanical possibility, right, And so it's different from the classical version. 744 00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:22,960 Speaker 1: The classical version where you have like actual messengers, you 745 00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:26,480 Speaker 1: have to send someone along both paths. Here we've sent 746 00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:30,520 Speaker 1: the probability along both paths. We haven't actually sent a particle. 747 00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:34,080 Speaker 1: The photon only goes along the open path. It doesn't 748 00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:37,000 Speaker 1: go along this path. We know that it has to 749 00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:39,439 Speaker 1: go along the open path. But wait, does this work 750 00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:41,319 Speaker 1: with only one photon or do you have to send 751 00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,520 Speaker 1: a bunch of photons. Now, this works with single photons, 752 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:47,000 Speaker 1: so you know which path the photon went. That one 753 00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:49,480 Speaker 1: photon went on the open path and not on the 754 00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:52,160 Speaker 1: blocked path. Then yet you know the obstacle is there, 755 00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:55,200 Speaker 1: that the path is blocked because of where the photon 756 00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:57,480 Speaker 1: ended up. But you only know that by taking a 757 00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:00,760 Speaker 1: statistical survey right of photons you sent through. Any photon 758 00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:03,560 Speaker 1: that arrives and detector B tells you that the obstacle 759 00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:05,279 Speaker 1: is there. So you may need to send a few 760 00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:07,680 Speaker 1: photons through your experiment to figure it out. I mean, 761 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:09,400 Speaker 1: it's it's sort of like random, right, Like if you 762 00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:11,759 Speaker 1: send one photon and it goes through A doesn't tell 763 00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:14,200 Speaker 1: you that there's an obstacle or not. That's right. It 764 00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:16,400 Speaker 1: doesn't give you information. You have to keep going until 765 00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:18,560 Speaker 1: you get one in the one that got blocked. That's true. 766 00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:21,280 Speaker 1: But it's individual photons, right, It's not like a beam. 767 00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:24,719 Speaker 1: It's not like the electromagnetic classical fields are interfering here. 768 00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:27,719 Speaker 1: These are individual photons. It doesn't work every time, It 769 00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,759 Speaker 1: only works of the time. But when you see a 770 00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:34,040 Speaker 1: photon hit B, that means it didn't follow the blocked path. 771 00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:37,520 Speaker 1: And that path has to be blocked. It's only one 772 00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:39,680 Speaker 1: way for the photon to get to the second detector, 773 00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:42,040 Speaker 1: and that's if the right hand path is blocked. The 774 00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:45,399 Speaker 1: path it did not follow is blocked. Right, So you're 775 00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:48,280 Speaker 1: saying that it communicates sort of without making a ripple, 776 00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:52,640 Speaker 1: but only of the time, or this email only works 777 00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:54,920 Speaker 1: of the time, which is more often than I get 778 00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:58,640 Speaker 1: answers to emails sometimes anyway, But now imagine that you 779 00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:01,080 Speaker 1: are controlling the obstacle and you're far away or something, 780 00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:03,080 Speaker 1: and I can just look at the detectors. Now you 781 00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:06,400 Speaker 1: can send me information by opening and closing the obstacle 782 00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:10,080 Speaker 1: without us exchanging any photons or any kind of particle 783 00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:12,520 Speaker 1: or any kind of ripple in any kind of field. 784 00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:17,040 Speaker 1: Just the quantum mechanical probability of my photons going through 785 00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:20,880 Speaker 1: your obstacle, or the lack of that probability is sending information. 786 00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:23,799 Speaker 1: All right. Now we're getting into the practical application of 787 00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:26,160 Speaker 1: sending a Q mail, and so let's get into the 788 00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:28,400 Speaker 1: details of that arrangement and how it might work. But 789 00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:43,319 Speaker 1: first let's take another quick break. All right, we're trying 790 00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:46,560 Speaker 1: to send an email without leaving a ripple in the universe, 791 00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:50,000 Speaker 1: and we have this arrangement of splitting photons, and one 792 00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:52,040 Speaker 1: possibility of the photon goes one way and the other 793 00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:54,040 Speaker 1: one maybe gets blocked. So how do I translate that 794 00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:56,399 Speaker 1: into sending an email? Well, the first thing you'd want 795 00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:59,480 Speaker 1: to do is do better than that. Doesn't seem like 796 00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:02,799 Speaker 1: a very good bit rate to lose your information at 797 00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:05,000 Speaker 1: the time. So people have come up with like meta 798 00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:07,080 Speaker 1: versions of this. When you stack these on top of 799 00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:09,120 Speaker 1: each other, so that if it goes to a have 800 00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:12,040 Speaker 1: like another chance. But wait, how am I actually communicating 801 00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:14,279 Speaker 1: through these? Like? Am I sending you the photon and 802 00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:16,560 Speaker 1: then you're on the other side receiving the photons or what? 803 00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:19,400 Speaker 1: You only control the gate. You only control whether the 804 00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,200 Speaker 1: right hand path is blocked or not. So you want 805 00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:24,160 Speaker 1: to send me some information, you close the gate or 806 00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:26,680 Speaker 1: open it. I have like a morse quode button here 807 00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:30,680 Speaker 1: that activates or deactivates the block the obstacle. And so 808 00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:33,600 Speaker 1: where are you receiving this message? So I'm controlling the 809 00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:36,759 Speaker 1: laser and the detectors, and we are not in communication 810 00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:41,000 Speaker 1: in any other way. We're separated somehow, right, And so 811 00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:43,120 Speaker 1: you can send me information. You can close the gate 812 00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:45,239 Speaker 1: and we'll agree that. Like, I'm going to send ten 813 00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:47,920 Speaker 1: of my photons through the experiment and see if I 814 00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:49,680 Speaker 1: get any of them on B and then I'll know 815 00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:51,719 Speaker 1: that the gate is closed. You and I do not 816 00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:54,480 Speaker 1: have to talk to each other or communicating any other way, 817 00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:56,880 Speaker 1: but I can tell whether or not you have closed 818 00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:00,640 Speaker 1: the gate just by seeing if any photons arrive detector. 819 00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:03,000 Speaker 1: B Oh. I see you're not talking about something at 820 00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:05,600 Speaker 1: a distance, because we kind of have to be close 821 00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:07,160 Speaker 1: to each other if I'm going to be pressing the 822 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:11,359 Speaker 1: button and blocking your stream of photons partially, right, that's right. 823 00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:13,480 Speaker 1: I have to set up my experiment so that it's 824 00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:16,239 Speaker 1: possible for my photons to go through your gate if 825 00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:18,680 Speaker 1: it's open. Okay. So then and then you're at the 826 00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:22,200 Speaker 1: end measuring what comes through this arrangement, and you're saying 827 00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:25,640 Speaker 1: that if you get photons and one detector, then you 828 00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:27,719 Speaker 1: don't know anything. But if you get it in the 829 00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:31,600 Speaker 1: other detector, then you know that I activated my gate. Yeah, exactly, 830 00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:34,960 Speaker 1: you closed your gate and shut down the quantum probabilities 831 00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:37,680 Speaker 1: for one half of the beam. In that case, I 832 00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:40,919 Speaker 1: know my photon didn't take your path because it went 833 00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:42,920 Speaker 1: all the way through the experiment, so it didn't hit 834 00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:45,480 Speaker 1: your obstacle, so I know which path it took, so 835 00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:47,560 Speaker 1: I know that it didn't go through your obstacle. And 836 00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:50,600 Speaker 1: yet I know something about your obstacle. I've learned something 837 00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:53,719 Speaker 1: from your obstacle without sending any particles to you or 838 00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:55,839 Speaker 1: getting any back from you. But I feel like some 839 00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:58,759 Speaker 1: ripple has been made and you use particles to get 840 00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:02,680 Speaker 1: this information, right, like you know, my my obstacle, what 841 00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:06,919 Speaker 1: had to come into effect and had to act and exist, right, 842 00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:08,360 Speaker 1: and some of the time it is going to be 843 00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:11,800 Speaker 1: blocking the photon right from going through. So it feels 844 00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:14,200 Speaker 1: like a very loyally kind of like, hey, we got magic, 845 00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:16,120 Speaker 1: but only if you sort of look at it in 846 00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:20,040 Speaker 1: this very narrow and then and technical way. But yes, 847 00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:22,160 Speaker 1: but this is this our lawyers of the universe, right 848 00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:24,000 Speaker 1: where like where's the loopole? The rule says we can't 849 00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:26,520 Speaker 1: do exactly this, Let's see if we can accomplish it 850 00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:29,160 Speaker 1: without actually doing that thing, And so yes, it's a 851 00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:32,600 Speaker 1: half step forward. You know, we are definitely sending quantum 852 00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:37,399 Speaker 1: mechanical probabilities in order to communicate. I'm sending the probability 853 00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:39,760 Speaker 1: of a photon in your way the fact that doesn't 854 00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:41,600 Speaker 1: make it through your gait and so it can't come 855 00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:44,960 Speaker 1: back to interfere with the other. Probability is definitely how 856 00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:48,520 Speaker 1: the information is being propagated. And yet it is true 857 00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:52,279 Speaker 1: that we're not sending any actual particle or any actual field. 858 00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:55,399 Speaker 1: We're only sending the probability of it. So yeah, it's 859 00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:58,000 Speaker 1: a half step forward, but it's definitely not sending a 860 00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:02,520 Speaker 1: message with particles or with yields themselves interesting And so 861 00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:05,000 Speaker 1: what is is this an actual experiment that's been done 862 00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:08,160 Speaker 1: and it works, or is this just a theoretical construction. No, 863 00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:10,920 Speaker 1: people have done this and they've actually seen these results, 864 00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:13,680 Speaker 1: and so we have accomplished this. We have sent information 865 00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:17,120 Speaker 1: without communicating any particles. Are these photons are going through 866 00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:20,239 Speaker 1: the non obstructed path and yet telling us whether or 867 00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:23,160 Speaker 1: not the other path is obstructed? And people have built 868 00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:25,400 Speaker 1: up on this. You can make this more robust by 869 00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:26,920 Speaker 1: stacking a few of these on top of each other, 870 00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:29,120 Speaker 1: having like multiple geats. Do you open them all at 871 00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:31,080 Speaker 1: once or closed them all at once? So you can 872 00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:33,960 Speaker 1: make it more robust. And there's a group in China 873 00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:37,600 Speaker 1: that's been using this to send information to like demonstrate 874 00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:40,080 Speaker 1: how to actually do this, so they can like send 875 00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:44,680 Speaker 1: information from one computer to another computer without any actual 876 00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:48,040 Speaker 1: messages passing back and forth. And they've actually done this. 877 00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:50,000 Speaker 1: They sent a picture of a flower, I think it 878 00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:54,200 Speaker 1: was from one computer to another computer. How good can 879 00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:57,400 Speaker 1: you get with the stacking, Like you said, one photon, 880 00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:03,200 Speaker 1: it's um one set up, it's accuracy. I guess how 881 00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:04,600 Speaker 1: good can you get it? But it just depends on 882 00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:06,080 Speaker 1: how many times you want to stack it. So the 883 00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:08,880 Speaker 1: more versions of this experiment you have, the more opportunities 884 00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:11,120 Speaker 1: you have to see that photon, and so you can 885 00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:14,040 Speaker 1: get it essentially arbitrarily good if you string together, you know, 886 00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:16,320 Speaker 1: a hundred or a thousand of these things. So people 887 00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:18,200 Speaker 1: have some clever ideas for how to do that. But 888 00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:21,360 Speaker 1: you know, people have done this experiment. They like communicated 889 00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:25,200 Speaker 1: this picture from one computer to another without actually sending 890 00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:28,240 Speaker 1: any particles. Now, there's a lot of controversy about this result. 891 00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:31,279 Speaker 1: Some people feel like there's loopholes there. They don't quite 892 00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:34,200 Speaker 1: believe the result that it's really solid. So it's not 893 00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:37,800 Speaker 1: like this is conclusively demonstrated. The simple experiment with the 894 00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:40,880 Speaker 1: single photon that's definitely been done and that agrees with 895 00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:43,800 Speaker 1: the quantum mechanical predictions. The more sophisticated thing, where like 896 00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:46,960 Speaker 1: are sending images from computer to computer without actually sending 897 00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:50,040 Speaker 1: any particles. That's much more controversial, right, And I think 898 00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:53,120 Speaker 1: it also maybe depends on what you mean philosophically by 899 00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:57,279 Speaker 1: like causing a ripple in a universe or things not interacting, right, 900 00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:00,160 Speaker 1: because things are definitely interacting here. There's just interacting in 901 00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:02,600 Speaker 1: a quantum way, right. So you know, if I'm on 902 00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:05,920 Speaker 1: the opposing council of this courtroom the universe, I might 903 00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:08,840 Speaker 1: say like, yeah, you're still you know, you're still using physics. 904 00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:11,400 Speaker 1: This is affecting then, and that is affecting this other thing, 905 00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:14,200 Speaker 1: and so therefore you're still causing a ripple in the universe. 906 00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:18,680 Speaker 1: And it opens up really interesting philosophical questions like is 907 00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:22,640 Speaker 1: information physical is it quantum mechanical. A lot of people 908 00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:25,719 Speaker 1: think that this whole quantum mechanical stuff is just abstract, 909 00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:28,480 Speaker 1: that this wave function we're talking about, it's just like 910 00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:31,120 Speaker 1: a calculation we do in our heads that helps us 911 00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:34,000 Speaker 1: predict things, but the wave function itself is not real. 912 00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:37,400 Speaker 1: But these kind of experiments support the other argument that 913 00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:40,799 Speaker 1: the wave function itself is real and is out there 914 00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:44,160 Speaker 1: and carries information on its own, because what we're doing 915 00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:48,680 Speaker 1: here is not sending information via physical objects, right, actual photons, 916 00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:52,799 Speaker 1: actual electrons, but the probability of them, right, just their 917 00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:56,400 Speaker 1: quantum mechanical waves. So you're right, we're still sending information 918 00:45:56,640 --> 00:45:59,840 Speaker 1: using the rules of the universe, and it's still propagating, 919 00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:04,080 Speaker 1: but propagating in this probability space. And it's pretty bonkers 920 00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:08,399 Speaker 1: to imagine that those are actually real in some philosophical sense, right, 921 00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:10,719 Speaker 1: although you are still collapsing things, right, I mean, if 922 00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:14,040 Speaker 1: you're sending ten twenty photons, if you're passing these through 923 00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:17,160 Speaker 1: like a hundred of these gates, you're essentially kind of 924 00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:20,239 Speaker 1: collapsing things right to measure them. It collapses the way 925 00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:22,600 Speaker 1: function when you put the obstacle there, right, And that's 926 00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:24,839 Speaker 1: how part of the information propagates. The fact that there 927 00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:26,759 Speaker 1: is no quantum way of coming along on the right 928 00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:29,000 Speaker 1: side to interfere with the left side is how you 929 00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:31,160 Speaker 1: know the right side is blocked. But it's not a 930 00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:34,960 Speaker 1: physical object that's being blocked. It's just the probability. It's 931 00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:37,680 Speaker 1: not a classical object being blocked, is I think, is 932 00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:40,440 Speaker 1: what you're saying. Yeah, it's not an observed quantity being blocked. 933 00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:43,759 Speaker 1: It's just the probability, and that suggests that the probability 934 00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:46,960 Speaker 1: itself is real in some way, like has the information 935 00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:49,839 Speaker 1: And it's this deep question about information, like is information 936 00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:51,880 Speaker 1: physical this idea we have that it has to like 937 00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:56,560 Speaker 1: propagate locally from real objects to other real objects. Maybe 938 00:46:56,560 --> 00:46:59,960 Speaker 1: it doesn't. Maybe information is quantum mechanical and can propagate 939 00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:03,600 Speaker 1: through this like probability space, which again means like maybe 940 00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:07,000 Speaker 1: the way function itself is real in some way, which 941 00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:09,279 Speaker 1: is hard to grapple with because the wave function, you know, 942 00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:12,800 Speaker 1: it's a complex number. You can have values like four 943 00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:15,200 Speaker 1: plus two I and we don't think of these as 944 00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:17,440 Speaker 1: real numbers. We don't call them real numbers because their 945 00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:20,319 Speaker 1: imaginary numbers, because they're just like a calculation we do 946 00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:23,440 Speaker 1: in our heads. But maybe they are real, right because 947 00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:26,720 Speaker 1: we can use them to actually propagate information that doesn't 948 00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:29,840 Speaker 1: appear in physical space. All right, Well, um, well what 949 00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:31,640 Speaker 1: do you think this all means? And how soon are 950 00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:34,799 Speaker 1: we gonna maybe see this in my iPhone? Well it's 951 00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:37,279 Speaker 1: a very exciting development, and you know, it serves to 952 00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:39,440 Speaker 1: like break down some of these barriers to tell us 953 00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:42,880 Speaker 1: that something we thought was impossible is now possible. And 954 00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:45,279 Speaker 1: it might feel like a technicality to you, but it's 955 00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:48,240 Speaker 1: a crack in that door, opens it up, and maybe 956 00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:50,040 Speaker 1: we can get our foot in there and then push 957 00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:53,560 Speaker 1: it open and develop technologies that we thought were impossible, 958 00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:57,239 Speaker 1: like sending messages between computers without actually connecting them in 959 00:47:57,320 --> 00:48:00,200 Speaker 1: any way. All right, well, it sounds like stay too une. 960 00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:03,040 Speaker 1: We might see this in the future or not or 961 00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:05,319 Speaker 1: both at the same time. You hope you enjoyed that. 962 00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:16,440 Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, See you next time. Thanks for listening, 963 00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:19,160 Speaker 1: and remember that Daniel and Jorge explained. The Universe is 964 00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:22,719 Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcast from 965 00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:26,480 Speaker 1: my Heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 966 00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:30,880 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. H