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Speaker 1: And now move the sticks with Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks. Alright, Black, Well,

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Speaker 1: we love our big guys, and this is a big

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Speaker 1: guy episode here on our Move to six prototype series,

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Speaker 1: looking at the offensive line. And man, we've got some

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Speaker 1: great guests lined up to discuss the big uglies. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the big uglies you talk about big man dance contest,

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Speaker 1: that's what we call it, down to the line of scrimmage.

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Speaker 1: But we don't have some great experts to talk about it.

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Speaker 1: Sean O'Hara, who has won the Super Bowl with the

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Speaker 1: New York Giants. We can also talk to Paul Alexander

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Speaker 1: and then how are my coming on to join and

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Speaker 1: give us a little expertise on the offensive line. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: to two outstanding coaches that have uh have coached a

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Speaker 1: lot of great players and have a great idea of

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Speaker 1: what makes an offensive linement that can be successful in

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Speaker 1: today's NFL. I think you're gonna enjoy those conversations. And

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Speaker 1: O'Hara has always a lot of fun when we chat

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Speaker 1: with him. Now, remember, if you're just checking us out

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Speaker 1: here on this episode, you can find the Quarterback Episode

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Speaker 1: a running back episod, so in a wide receiver episode. Uh,

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Speaker 1: that's already available. You can go listen to those right now,

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Speaker 1: and then we're gonna have some more coming your way.

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Speaker 1: Eat the defensive side of the ball, uh, with some

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Speaker 1: more episodes here shortly in our prototype series, Buck, when

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Speaker 1: we look at the offensive line position and we're just

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Speaker 1: kind of grouping it together right now inside guys, outside guys,

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Speaker 1: but just at the core, for any offensive lineman, what

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Speaker 1: are two or three attributes that you believe you you've

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Speaker 1: gotta have. When we're trying to find these guys, the

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Speaker 1: first thing that I look for I'm looking at their feet,

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Speaker 1: so I need to see balance and body control. I

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Speaker 1: want to see if they're nimble, if they're light, if

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Speaker 1: they're guys that can change and redirect. Uh, how much

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Speaker 1: quickness do they display when they have to move laterally

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Speaker 1: to their right into the left. Secondly, I want to

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Speaker 1: see what are their hands like? Are these guys strong

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Speaker 1: with their hands? Can they latch on, lock on, ride

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Speaker 1: you out? And then finally, some of this speaks to

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Speaker 1: their attitude and demeanor. I want to see him finish.

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Speaker 1: I need an offensive line composed of nasty guys, guys

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Speaker 1: that kind of take it from snap to the whistle

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Speaker 1: and maybe even a little beyond the whistle. I want

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Speaker 1: to make sure that we have a physical, running, running game.

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Speaker 1: And so the offensive lineman. Did I prefer other ones

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Speaker 1: to have a little nasty in new game? Yeah? Ideally

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Speaker 1: you want everybody that can do everything right. But you

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Speaker 1: it's tough, tough to get those type of guys. Uh,

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Speaker 1: they're very few. But to me, I look at a

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Speaker 1: couple of different things. First of all, it's a passing league, um,

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Speaker 1: and I do this for every position. You know, we're

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Speaker 1: talking about scouting and going through that process. For me

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Speaker 1: almost hopefully they are this way. If you ever read

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Speaker 1: my my reports and my write ups on to my

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Speaker 1: top fifty every year. I will start whether it's an

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Speaker 1: offensive lineman, uh, you know, a running back. Um, maybe

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Speaker 1: running back might be the one exception. Let me just

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Speaker 1: boil it down. You start with the passing game, defensive lineman.

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Speaker 1: I want to get to the point, how does he

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Speaker 1: rush the pastor after that we'll get how he does

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Speaker 1: against run. Offensive lineman, how do he's doing pass protection?

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Speaker 1: Then we can get to what he does uh in

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Speaker 1: the running game, because you've got guys that can't slide

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Speaker 1: can't redirect and can't pass protected. I don't care if

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Speaker 1: you're playing outside or inside. They're gonna isolate you and

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Speaker 1: you're gonna get exposed and you're not gonna be able

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Speaker 1: to stay in the fields. You've gotta be able to

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Speaker 1: pass protect. Toughness is toughness, and I'll put intelligence instincts

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Speaker 1: combining that all together. If I get somebody that can

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Speaker 1: pass protect and I get some toughness, I can work

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Speaker 1: on some technique things run wise, you can clean that

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Speaker 1: up and improve. But man, if you can't pass protect buck,

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Speaker 1: you can't play now, you don't have a chance. Because

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Speaker 1: it's all about the quarterback. The franchise quarterback is making

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Speaker 1: north of thirty million dollars. You better believe that some

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Speaker 1: of the old lineman that you bring in, they need

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Speaker 1: to be able to keep him upright and safe and

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Speaker 1: secure in the pocket. So, yes, the passing game takes precedence,

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Speaker 1: but you have a small handful of folks that still

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Speaker 1: believe the running game is the best way to sustain

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Speaker 1: your success. The teams that go to the playoffs, of

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Speaker 1: the teams that still run more than others. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna get into all of it. And the evaluation

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Speaker 1: of the position. And let's get to our interviews here,

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Speaker 1: because we've got a couple great ones coming up with

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Speaker 1: Howard mud and Paul Alexander, two legendary coaches. But we're

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Speaker 1: gonna start things off with somebody who played the position

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Speaker 1: up front at a very high level. He's a pro bowler,

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Speaker 1: he's a Super Bowl winner, and he's a friend. How

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Speaker 1: New York Giants have knocked off the New England Patriots

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Speaker 1: seventeen fourteen, has Tom Conflint gets a gatoragge bath and

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Speaker 1: the Giants were the most improbable win in recent memory,

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Speaker 1: have one super Bowl forty two. All excited to be

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Speaker 1: joined by our buddy Sean O'Hara and and Sean, we're

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Speaker 1: looking at offensive lineman and and really trying to identify

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Speaker 1: prototypes at the position right now. But I want to

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Speaker 1: ask you first of all, just what you think the

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Speaker 1: uh the makeup is like formulated offensive line. We'll get

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Speaker 1: to what they do on the field, but what type

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Speaker 1: of a makeup are you looking for at that position? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I know when everybody talks offensive line play, they talk

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Speaker 1: about the chemistry and does an offensive line gel You

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Speaker 1: know you've heard all the cliches about you're only as

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Speaker 1: strong as your weakest link. Um. I think chemistry is

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Speaker 1: a huge factor when you're assembling an offensive line as

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Speaker 1: a as a unit, but as an individual, I think

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Speaker 1: you've got to have a little bit of nastiness in you.

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Speaker 1: You know, you could be a nice guy off the field,

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Speaker 1: but at some point time when I turn on the

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Speaker 1: film him, and when I'm watching a kid, I want

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Speaker 1: to see him finish somebody. If you're not pile driving

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Speaker 1: somebody in the ground at any point in time in

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Speaker 1: a game, then in college and you're sure's heck not

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Speaker 1: gonna do it in the NFL. So that's kind of

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Speaker 1: one thing that I that I like to look at

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Speaker 1: when I'm watching guys. But back from when I when

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Speaker 1: I was playing, the one thing that assured you a

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Speaker 1: quick trip out the door or a seat on the

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Speaker 1: bench was if you didn't know what you were doing.

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Speaker 1: So I think offensive lineman, and I'm not just saying

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Speaker 1: this because I was one of them, but you guys

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Speaker 1: have been around him a lot, you really have to

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Speaker 1: be one of the smartest guys in the huddle because

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Speaker 1: you don't get a playoff. You have to know what

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Speaker 1: everybody's your right and your left are doing. You can't

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Speaker 1: just stay in your lane and have tunnel vision. You've

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Speaker 1: got to also be able to understand or read defenses

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Speaker 1: and anticipate what they're doing. So it's not just about

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Speaker 1: pure athleticism. You've got to have great technique, but you've

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Speaker 1: got to have the ability to absorb what's this defense doing.

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Speaker 1: What are the tendencies I've seen this front before. Um.

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Speaker 1: I always felt like as a center, my wits would

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Speaker 1: kind of make up for any physical attributes that I

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Speaker 1: was lacking in. But I also felt like the more

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Speaker 1: I knew and the more I knew how my quarterback

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Speaker 1: was seeing things, the better that would make me as

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Speaker 1: a center and relaying some of the calls. You know,

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Speaker 1: So the center position obviously the pivot. You guys are

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Speaker 1: kind of the main communicators when it comes to the

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Speaker 1: offensive line. Everyone when they think about offensive line, they

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Speaker 1: always start outside though with the tackles. What do you

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Speaker 1: look for in offensive tackles? And is there really a

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Speaker 1: major difference between left tackle and rats right tackle based

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Speaker 1: on the way the game is trendy? Yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's it's really interesting because when I look at the

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Speaker 1: further away from the ball you get, the more athletic.

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Speaker 1: I feel like you had to be. So tackles, certainly

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Speaker 1: you've got to be more athletic guards. You know, it

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Speaker 1: can be kind of in between. Uh, center, any anybody

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Speaker 1: can play center. Uh you don't even have to be

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Speaker 1: a great athlete. Uh now I'm kidding. I think tackles

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Speaker 1: the couple of factors that I that I look at

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Speaker 1: and and the best tackles to play the game obviously

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Speaker 1: a great feat I mean, you're not gonna be a

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Speaker 1: tackle in the NFL if you can't move your feet

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Speaker 1: and if you can't change direction. But I think they

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Speaker 1: always had great punch. And I know a lot of

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Speaker 1: people in the combine we get enamored with how long

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Speaker 1: are their arms, you know, although what's the wingspan? And

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Speaker 1: that's great, having long arms as great as a tackle.

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Speaker 1: But if you don't punch, it doesn't matter how long

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Speaker 1: your arms are. If you're a grabber, then you're not

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Speaker 1: getting that full extension. So I think tackles have to

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Speaker 1: have a really good punch their their hands have got

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Speaker 1: to be tight. Um. It doesn't do you any good

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Speaker 1: if you have long arms. If if your hands are

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Speaker 1: all over the place. Um. And then their footwork. And

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Speaker 1: when people say footwork, sometimes people just say, Okay, well

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Speaker 1: he's athletic, he can sholfle, he can move. See. To me,

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Speaker 1: the footwork is your recoverability because in the NFL, you're

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Speaker 1: not always gonna get your first jam. You know, I

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Speaker 1: was gonna get your first punch. They're gonna swipe, They're

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Speaker 1: gonna find a way to make you miss. So can

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Speaker 1: you after you've missed a punch, can you recover with

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Speaker 1: your feet to get back in front. Otherwise you're just

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Speaker 1: gonna be You're gonna be a constant holder and you're

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Speaker 1: gonna be constantly getting penalties. I like what you're saying

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Speaker 1: there sean to me if if we're looking just offensive,

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Speaker 1: wantline across the board. And I know there's officers differences

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Speaker 1: in playing inside we're to being on the outside. Um,

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Speaker 1: but kind of listening to you and jotting down what

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Speaker 1: you're saying and what we've talked about previously. UM, the foundation,

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Speaker 1: if you're gonna start with the foundation of an offensive lineman, uh, tough, smart,

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Speaker 1: and the ability to recover would be three areas I

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Speaker 1: think I would start, and I would probably add the

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Speaker 1: fourth which be just anchor, especially when we're talking the

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Speaker 1: interior guys. But so you've got the toughness, you've got

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Speaker 1: the smarts. Um, you've got the ability to recover, and

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Speaker 1: you've got the ability to anchor. Is that a proper

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Speaker 1: foundation for how you build an offensive lineman. Yeah? I

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Speaker 1: think those are all key ingredients. Now you can kind

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Speaker 1: of maneuver. You could switch for in two as far

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Speaker 1: as what their strengths are. But um, I think when

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Speaker 1: you look at at one of the fastest that I

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Speaker 1: look at offensive lineman, when you watch them in a stance,

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Speaker 1: you want to see what how flexible are they? You know,

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Speaker 1: we we we focus so much on power and hey,

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Speaker 1: can you get the squat rack? How much can you lift?

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Speaker 1: How much can you hankling? That's great and all that

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Speaker 1: hip explosion, that hip power is great. But if you

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Speaker 1: can't bend, if you can't get low, that power means nothing.

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Speaker 1: And that power will not translate. So I'll look at

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Speaker 1: guys when they're in their stance and you can tell, boy,

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Speaker 1: are they stiff in the ankles If they get in

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Speaker 1: the stance and their heels are up off the ground

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Speaker 1: because their ankles are so tight that they're gonna have

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Speaker 1: a tough time getting their whole foot in the ground

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Speaker 1: and pushing guys. If they get in the stance and

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Speaker 1: they can't open up with their hips, then now all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden, they're limited. We watched that so much.

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Speaker 1: We talk about it at the combine and I know

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Speaker 1: you guys when you go to pro days, that's one

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Speaker 1: of the things that everybody's looking at is how fluid

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Speaker 1: are they? But low man always wins. And I'll always

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Speaker 1: say that when you get a guy that can squat

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Speaker 1: seven pounds, that's great. But if he gets out on

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Speaker 1: the field and he can't bend his bend his knees

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Speaker 1: and he can't move with while he's low, if he

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Speaker 1: has to stand up to to move side to side,

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Speaker 1: now you've got a guy that lost all his power. Um.

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Speaker 1: So I think that's a big factor in it. So

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Speaker 1: many times I've been around guys that are weight room warriors.

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Speaker 1: They look like Tarzan and you put them on the

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Speaker 1: field and they put them like Jane and you can't

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Speaker 1: figure it out because it just doesn't translate. Uh. The

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Speaker 1: bench press is kind of one of those things where

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Speaker 1: we'd have a guy, um, you know, I remember a

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Speaker 1: guy that I played with, Scott peters Man. He was strong.

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Speaker 1: I mean he could bench like six pounds and if

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Speaker 1: he punched you in one on ones, he was great.

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Speaker 1: But if he missed, it was wrapped. It was a sack.

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Speaker 1: You're you're done. So uh, some of those things don't

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Speaker 1: necessarily translate, but I know, UM, when teams look at

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Speaker 1: offensive linement coming out when they get a chance to,

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Speaker 1: they now they have these functional movement screens where they

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Speaker 1: can find out if you have hip tightness. Hip tightness

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Speaker 1: has been directly correlated to a c L injuries, So

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Speaker 1: that's why a lot of teams are doing yoga. We

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Speaker 1: started doing that with the Giants UH as a prehab

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Speaker 1: exercise to try to prevent injuries as well as UH

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Speaker 1: improving flexibility. You know, you talked uniquely about the challenge

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Speaker 1: of kind of building an offensive line because you have

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Speaker 1: five guys that have to work together, and you talked

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Speaker 1: about how they need to you know, kind of not

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Speaker 1: be best buzz, but they have to have the right mix,

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Speaker 1: the right personality. Do you believe there is the right

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Speaker 1: personality to be an offensive alignment on a team full

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Speaker 1: of different characters? Yeah, that's always the challenge, you know.

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Speaker 1: And I've been you know, on a couple of different

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Speaker 1: teams where look, well you didn't have guys that necessarily

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Speaker 1: hung out all the time, like you know Kae mackenzie

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Speaker 1: for example. You know, we consider him one of our

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Speaker 1: best friends. He didn't always hang out with us, you know.

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Speaker 1: He he wasn't married and didn't have kids, and so

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Speaker 1: there were times where he would kind of do his

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Speaker 1: own thing. But there was this relationship that we had

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Speaker 1: once we got in the building and once we got

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Speaker 1: the stadium, where we would tease each other and guys

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Speaker 1: would play pranks and do things, but it was it

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Speaker 1: was a brotherhood. And I think that's that that starts

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Speaker 1: in the off season, you know. And I remember, you know,

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Speaker 1: when when Tom Coffin was with the Giants, he came

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Speaker 1: in a four and I came in as a free agent.

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Speaker 1: I came in on a visit like March seven, and

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Speaker 1: I said, hey, when does the offsee program start? He

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Speaker 1: goes two weeks ago. Now as a different time. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: now you know he's getting in trouble for saying guys

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Speaker 1: should be here. Um, so we're in a totally different world.

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Speaker 1: But I realized Wow, hey, guys are working here. And

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Speaker 1: you know what I said was well, as I asked him,

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Speaker 1: I said, how many alignment are here? He goes three

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Speaker 1: of them. I'm sorry, well on Monday though before, because

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Speaker 1: I wasn't gonna let my boys work and not be

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Speaker 1: there helping out, you know. I mean, it's like somebody

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Speaker 1: delivers sixty five yards and mulch to your house. You're

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Speaker 1: not gonna sit there and drinking lemonade watching your boys

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Speaker 1: go and spread it all out. I mean, maybe I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna you're gonna get some blister too and get I mean,

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Speaker 1: I gotta I gotta let him do the work. I

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Speaker 1: mean to bring my glass. But what I'm not, I'm

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Speaker 1: not working when you're in to make you that. Maybe

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Speaker 1: you have somebody to it for you. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: but I think as offensive alignment, you've gotta, like you

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Speaker 1: gotta put in the time, you know, especially when you

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Speaker 1: go out there and you know, like, hey, look man,

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Speaker 1: we're out here for sixty five snaps. It's not like

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Speaker 1: any other position. You're not rotating guys. You know, very

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Speaker 1: rarely do offensive lineman come off the field in a game.

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Speaker 1: So you know, you kind of you build that trust

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Speaker 1: and you build that Hey, we're gonna push each other.

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Speaker 1: You build that in the off season. That's why I've

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Speaker 1: always felt like, you know, workouts, O T A S,

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Speaker 1: mini camp, training camp, that was always great for building

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Speaker 1: that camaraderie, building that chemistry. But the best offensive lines

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Speaker 1: are groups that had that same kind of mindset. When

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Speaker 1: you look at the two teams that played in the

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Speaker 1: Super Bowl this past year, the Rams of the Patriots,

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Speaker 1: both of those teams started all five guys the entire season.

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Speaker 1: So there's a direct correlation between having a strong, like

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Speaker 1: minded unit in the offensive line and winning games. Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna show your age here a little bit, Sean,

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Speaker 1: because you entered the league in two thousand and so

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Speaker 1: if we look at the way the game was played

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Speaker 1: there in almost twenty years now since you started your

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Speaker 1: career in football league, and we look at where the

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Speaker 1: game is right now. I knew that would hurt. Look

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Speaker 1: at where the game is right now, maybe projecting the

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Speaker 1: next five to ten years. What do you think was

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Speaker 1: valued in the in the year two thousand when you

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Speaker 1: came in. Uh that maybe at this point in time,

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Speaker 1: maybe a little bit over overrated. And then on the

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Speaker 1: other side of things. What was something maybe we wouldn't

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Speaker 1: put much stock in at that point in time, which

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Speaker 1: is becoming increasingly more important. How is it of involved

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Speaker 1: and changed that position? Yeah, good question. I want to say.

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Speaker 1: In two thousand, everybody was going for the big old lines.

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Speaker 1: You know, it was how big can you get? You know?

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Speaker 1: I think about Trey Johnson, who was a guard in

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Speaker 1: Washington for a long time, um, and and he ended

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Speaker 1: up playing with him in Cleveland for a while, and

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Speaker 1: he was threety pounds. I mean, he was one of

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Speaker 1: those strongest things I've ever ever met. You know, he

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Speaker 1: didn't really care to pull, he didn't want to get

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Speaker 1: on space. But you know, the Cowboys won three Super

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Speaker 1: Bowls in five years and they had one of the

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Speaker 1: biggest old lines with big Cat Williams and Nate Newton

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Speaker 1: and um, Larry Allen. So it was kind of like, hey, look,

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Speaker 1: if you want to have a big old line, you're

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Speaker 1: gonna you're gonna be able to move people, even the

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Speaker 1: Ravens in two thousand when um, you know Flynn I

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Speaker 1: think was the singer uh big zeus um and then uh,

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Speaker 1: you know obviously I left actually, so it was just hey,

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Speaker 1: look we want to get the biggest bodies out there.

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Speaker 1: Four sequels mass times acceleration, so let's double up on

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Speaker 1: the m um. And I think then Denver kind of

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Speaker 1: came into the picture and they had a little bit

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Speaker 1: more of an athletic office line, and it was man

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Speaker 1: Schlaret and Nayling and um, you know some of these Hey,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna run the zone scheme and we're gonna get

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Speaker 1: the defense moving and then we'll slice you on the

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Speaker 1: back side. So that kind of that was kind of

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Speaker 1: the end and yang of the offense. And I remember

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Speaker 1: coming in to the league. My number one goal was, Man,

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Speaker 1: I gotta get the three ten, I gotta get big.

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Speaker 1: It was you know, I came in as an undersized guy,

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Speaker 1: played left tackle at Rutgers. I knew I wanted to

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Speaker 1: move inside, but I was two um and I remember

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Speaker 1: Tim Jorgensen, our strength coach. I said, Tim, I gotta

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Speaker 1: put some weight on it as well. You want to

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Speaker 1: get bigger, you need some gas, so here you go.

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Speaker 1: Just he would just feed me creating and on my

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Speaker 1: locker and it was like, you know, I'm like, really

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Speaker 1: another one. It's like gas more gas. That was his

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Speaker 1: big thing. So I just was trying to get as

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Speaker 1: big as I could get UM, and then I kind

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Speaker 1: of realized halfway through my career, like you know what,

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Speaker 1: quit being quick is even more important than being strong

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Speaker 1: because that strength sometimes doesn't translate into the fourth quarter,

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Speaker 1: but your quickness can as long as you're conditioning is right.

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Speaker 1: So I think what we're seeing now is offensive linemen

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Speaker 1: are much more athletic. I feel like they have to

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Speaker 1: be because the defensive line has gotten more athletic. They've

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Speaker 1: got they're they're bigger and they're stronger, but they're faster.

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Speaker 1: You know, You're you're blocking guys with linebacker speed at

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Speaker 1: two pounds playing d n So it's really forced the

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Speaker 1: offensive linemen to get more athletic. But I think you

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Speaker 1: mentioned Bucky that the tackles, that's been the biggest thing.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you see guys that that, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: they look like basketball players out there playing tackle and

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Speaker 1: they get away with it. Um. You know. So it's

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Speaker 1: it's much more athletic play. I think the passing game

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Speaker 1: has changed things now. I mean most teams are throwing

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Speaker 1: the ball twice as much as they're running the football,

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Speaker 1: So that's kind of changed the makeup of the old line.

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Speaker 1: One thing that's constant though DJ center centers. Centers continue

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Speaker 1: to be the the move the needle on the intelligence factor,

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Speaker 1: its continues to continue to trend up with you on

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna give you a softball here and I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: let you run here. At last question, one of the

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Speaker 1: one of the things I like to do is go

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Speaker 1: back after the Super Bowl and you go back and

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Speaker 1: look at teams and where they invested uh their money

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Speaker 1: in free agency as well as resigning their own guys

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Speaker 1: as well as where they've invested their draft capital. And

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Speaker 1: and Bucky and I we always talk about this on

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Speaker 1: on the podcast, that the championship teams spend their money

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Speaker 1: on the bigs and they and they take care of

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Speaker 1: their quarterback. And and when you look at historically being

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Speaker 1: on a Super Bowl team, um, the strength of that

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Speaker 1: team again, the line of scrimmage on both sides, and

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Speaker 1: the quarterback position. And that is that, in your opinion,

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Speaker 1: if you're building a football team where it starts and

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Speaker 1: ends at those three spots. Yeah, I think the quarterback

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Speaker 1: is kind of that that's kind of in its own

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Speaker 1: little category. Um, but you know, and in a quarterback

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Speaker 1: driven league, the next question is can you get to

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Speaker 1: the quarterback and can you protect yours? Um? So I

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Speaker 1: definitely I think you know, when I was with the Giants,

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Speaker 1: I remember when they drafted Justin Tuck and they said,

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Speaker 1: why are you drafting another defensive end? And you have Ocie,

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Speaker 1: You've got straight hand, You've got all those guys lo

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Speaker 1: and behold, Justin Tuck's on third down. He's the he's

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Speaker 1: the the inside rush guy. He's playing three technique and

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Speaker 1: he helped the Giants win two Super Bowls. So you

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Speaker 1: can never have enough of those guys. And I think

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Speaker 1: it's probably more important to draft those guys because you

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Speaker 1: you can get them, you know, on that rookie deal

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Speaker 1: and pay them a lot less um, because they get

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Speaker 1: more expensive the better the better passports, you're asking for

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Speaker 1: more money. I mean, look at what Marcus Lawrence is

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Speaker 1: getting down to Dallas. So you gotta get those guys

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Speaker 1: on rookie deals. Offensive lineman, we're starting to see them

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Speaker 1: get paid a little bit more now. Um, But those guys,

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Speaker 1: you know, you you definitely you see teams that will

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Speaker 1: pick and choose who are gonna pay a lot of

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Speaker 1: teams will say we'll pay our left tackle, and we'll

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Speaker 1: pay our right tackle, or we'll pay a left tackle

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Speaker 1: on the right guard, and then other guys we're gonna

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Speaker 1: try to fill in with, um, you know, cheaper labor

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Speaker 1: or or young draft picks. But I definitely think that

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Speaker 1: you've got to spend. Look at the Philadelphia Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean they just tackle position, the center position, the guard position,

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Speaker 1: and they keep stockpiling more. They can't have enough. They

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Speaker 1: basically have two left tackles when you when you look

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Speaker 1: at well three really now with Dealer, but with Lane Johnson.

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Speaker 1: Lane Johnson on any team would be a left tackle. Um.

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Speaker 1: So I think that that's one of the reasons why

427
00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:17,720
Speaker 1: you know they won the Super Bow last year really

428
00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:20,640
Speaker 1: was their depth hallelul Viti him stepping in a left

429
00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:23,479
Speaker 1: tackle is would enable them to to win the Super Bow.

430
00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:26,040
Speaker 1: Obviously when Nick Foles too. But yeah, I think getting

431
00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:29,119
Speaker 1: getting Dillard, they see the importance of having that office

432
00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:32,320
Speaker 1: line and certainly keeping your quarterback healthy. There you go, Sean,

433
00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:34,000
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for your time, buddy. We appreciate it.

434
00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:36,600
Speaker 1: All right, Good to see you guys. Well back with

435
00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:39,159
Speaker 1: Shaun O'Hara. Look, he's he's entertaining, he's funny. He's a

436
00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:41,679
Speaker 1: great guy, but he also is very intelligent and I

437
00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:43,440
Speaker 1: you know, I think even just kind of wrapping things

438
00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:46,639
Speaker 1: up there, Uh, we're talking about Andre Dillard in the

439
00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:50,080
Speaker 1: Philadelphia Eagles. Man, you you better understand the importance of

440
00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:52,760
Speaker 1: the offensive line position. You better have some depth, uh,

441
00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:54,520
Speaker 1: if you want to go ahead and chase that ultimate

442
00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:56,440
Speaker 1: prize in today's league. Yeah, you have to have to

443
00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:57,800
Speaker 1: have You have you guys that can come off the

444
00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:00,680
Speaker 1: bench and play with minimal reps. Mean, we've been to

445
00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:03,520
Speaker 1: many pro practices, you know, the twos. They don't get

446
00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:05,600
Speaker 1: a lot of work, so your ability to lock in

447
00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:09,760
Speaker 1: really separates you from the back. But ultimately, it is

448
00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:12,320
Speaker 1: funny watch an offensive lineman because you want to evaluate one,

449
00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:13,600
Speaker 1: but you kind of have the great I'm on the

450
00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:16,320
Speaker 1: curve with the entire unit. So it's a unique physician.

451
00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:18,959
Speaker 1: Glad it would continue to talk about I'm gonna put

452
00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:20,439
Speaker 1: you on the spot here, I'm gonna I'm gonna give

453
00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:22,160
Speaker 1: you a time to think here because I'm gonna give

454
00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:24,880
Speaker 1: you my answer to the question. First, Um, people ask

455
00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:27,680
Speaker 1: you in life, who is your first love? How about

456
00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:29,760
Speaker 1: your first love as an offensive lineman? Go back there

457
00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:32,640
Speaker 1: in your your scouting days, because I can give you mine. Um,

458
00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:36,320
Speaker 1: first or second year scouting, UH was up at Fresno

459
00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:38,600
Speaker 1: State and there was this guy with a beard and

460
00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:42,080
Speaker 1: a cowboy hat, um and they just I met him.

461
00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:44,520
Speaker 1: He came in through uh the room where I was

462
00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:47,240
Speaker 1: watching tape and shook his hand. He's got ginormous hands.

463
00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:49,440
Speaker 1: And question was, is he gonna be a tackle? Is

464
00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:50,919
Speaker 1: he gonna be a guard? I don't know. I just

465
00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:53,760
Speaker 1: know one thing this guy is. He is like he

466
00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:55,960
Speaker 1: looks like he could be the Marlborough man Um. He

467
00:20:56,160 --> 00:21:00,560
Speaker 1: is all man Um, so physical, so tough off and

468
00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:02,760
Speaker 1: so smart. I'm like, this guy's gonna play. I mean

469
00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:04,680
Speaker 1: a little white, I'm a young scalper. This guy's gonna

470
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:06,359
Speaker 1: play forever. He's gonna be great. I gave him my

471
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,120
Speaker 1: red Star, which we've discussed on the movie Stix podcast

472
00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:11,639
Speaker 1: where you give it to one player here. You know

473
00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:14,159
Speaker 1: what I'm talking about. Logan Makings. Um, that was my

474
00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:16,600
Speaker 1: kind of my first crush there, My first offensive line

475
00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:19,480
Speaker 1: crush as a as a scout was Logan Makings. Do

476
00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:21,359
Speaker 1: you have a guy that you scouted early on that

477
00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:24,920
Speaker 1: UH that you kind of fell in love with? If

478
00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:26,720
Speaker 1: I had to think about like a guy that I

479
00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:28,639
Speaker 1: absolutely fell in love with, I would have to go

480
00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:31,240
Speaker 1: back to my time in Seattle. We were fortunate to

481
00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:34,800
Speaker 1: have Walter Jones and we drafted Yeah, that's pretty good ones,

482
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:37,800
Speaker 1: and so she's two good ones. So we had both

483
00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:40,040
Speaker 1: of those guys. They played sap us side. Whenever we

484
00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:42,200
Speaker 1: were into we ran the ball to the left. Sean

485
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:45,480
Speaker 1: Alexander basically played at m v P level because he

486
00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:49,400
Speaker 1: had to Hall of Fame caliber officsive lineman leading the way.

487
00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:52,240
Speaker 1: So if I had to pick Man hutcheson a Gord

488
00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:55,359
Speaker 1: Walter Jones the tackle, those are my prototypes because we

489
00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:56,879
Speaker 1: were able to pull those guys off the board. And

490
00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:58,639
Speaker 1: now you're just showing off. That's all that. It's just

491
00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:01,080
Speaker 1: showing off right there. I love it. Well, let's get

492
00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:05,840
Speaker 1: to our next conversation. Paul Alexander a long time NFL

493
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:09,040
Speaker 1: offensive line coach and and someone has been well respected

494
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:11,640
Speaker 1: inside the offensive line community for a long time and

495
00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:14,440
Speaker 1: a great person to chat with. We're trying to learn

496
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:17,240
Speaker 1: more about the offensive line position. Here's our conversation with

497
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:22,840
Speaker 1: coach Paul Alexander, and we say, a veteran NFL offensive

498
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,119
Speaker 1: line coach. We mean it. We're talking about twenty six

499
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:29,679
Speaker 1: years of experience coaching in the National Football League, and amazingly,

500
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:33,159
Speaker 1: twenty three of those years spent in one organization with

501
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:35,480
Speaker 1: the Cincinnati Bengals. Coach. We can't thank you enough for

502
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:38,720
Speaker 1: your time today. We appreciate it. Oh thanks, guys, I

503
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:43,880
Speaker 1: enjoy uh talking to you about Thank you for having me. Huh, Well,

504
00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:46,120
Speaker 1: there's no better person to talk to. And you've got

505
00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,920
Speaker 1: such a sterling reputation you had had have had such

506
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:52,160
Speaker 1: a sterling reputation for so long, and and and scouts,

507
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:54,800
Speaker 1: we're always trying to figure out how we can do better,

508
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:58,679
Speaker 1: how we can become better evaluators of every position, and

509
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:01,080
Speaker 1: when we look at the offensive line position, I want

510
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:03,200
Speaker 1: to I want to go back just to a couple

511
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:05,440
Speaker 1: of specific players that you had chanced to be around

512
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,640
Speaker 1: there in Cincinnati, UM and just what you saw from

513
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:12,280
Speaker 1: them that you thought would translate into becoming outstanding pros.

514
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:15,560
Speaker 1: A couple of guys and Willie Anderson and also in

515
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:18,399
Speaker 1: Andrew Whitworth, coach, what did you see the foundation of

516
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:20,560
Speaker 1: them as players and what made you believe they were

517
00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:24,200
Speaker 1: going to go on to be outstanding pros? Well, let's

518
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:27,720
Speaker 1: talk Willie Anderson first. Well, Willie Anderson was a massive man.

519
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:33,040
Speaker 1: He was probably the biggest, uh first huge offensive lineman

520
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:36,240
Speaker 1: in the league. Um he was at Alabama. I went

521
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:39,359
Speaker 1: and worked about. He had tremendous feat he had quickness.

522
00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:42,160
Speaker 1: But he he did a thing. We did a droll

523
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:43,960
Speaker 1: where I had him stick his arms out and I

524
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,400
Speaker 1: tried to push his arms down to the ground. And

525
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:49,040
Speaker 1: when I tried to pull his arms down to the ground,

526
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:51,200
Speaker 1: I couldn't move. I could have done a chin up

527
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:55,400
Speaker 1: on his arms and uh and I said, oh five, right,

528
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:58,359
Speaker 1: And at that moment I knew he was gonna be

529
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:00,640
Speaker 1: a great player. And Willie and Sin when you talk

530
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:05,760
Speaker 1: about trades employers, it's very unique because Willie had big,

531
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:09,000
Speaker 1: strong hands, and Willie had exceptional feet. Now did he

532
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 1: have Peter Petter feet? Did he have feet that he

533
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:14,679
Speaker 1: could can't dance and jump rope? Yes? He did, But

534
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:19,800
Speaker 1: did you see those feet on film? No, great players

535
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:24,119
Speaker 1: have good feet and quick feet. There's a lot of

536
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:26,119
Speaker 1: really good players who can move their feet really quick,

537
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:30,280
Speaker 1: but they don't know when to use them. Willie could

538
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:33,959
Speaker 1: slow down and speed up, and slow down and speed up.

539
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,200
Speaker 1: Now there aren't many guys alive that are that big

540
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:42,399
Speaker 1: with that amount of quickness that have the ability to

541
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:46,359
Speaker 1: govern their speed. I call it by speeding up and

542
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 1: slowing down. And it's really a very rare, unique trait

543
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:55,040
Speaker 1: to have it. The one guy in last year's draft

544
00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:59,680
Speaker 1: that had it is Jonah Williams. Um he was might

545
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:01,199
Speaker 1: have been the only guy in the draft that I

546
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 1: thought could be there. And so it's a very unique

547
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 1: trait that Willie had. And you put that with his

548
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 1: massive size and strength balance. Um, it was great. Wentworth.

549
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,000
Speaker 1: I went down to will you guys remember what were you?

550
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 1: Uh you were you scouting at the time that Wittworth

551
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 1: came out. Yes, sir, I'd like to have that grade back.

552
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 1: I like a Mulligan on that one. Here's what was

553
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:30,160
Speaker 1: gonna be. Here's what I'm gonna say right. Um. When

554
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:34,119
Speaker 1: Wittworth was coming out of L. S U, the reputation

555
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 1: by everybody that I heard was, Okay, he's a guard.

556
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:47,640
Speaker 1: Maybe he can play right tackle, can't play left hand. Um.

557
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,160
Speaker 1: I went down to L. S U. I worked him out.

558
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 1: I was there with another coach and when he said,

559
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 1: what do you think Paul, I said, first round pick?

560
00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 1: He said, really, I said, what do you think he's

561
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 1: at stubbnth round? I go, oh my god, There's never

562
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:07,160
Speaker 1: been a bigger very players I've ever seen in my life.

563
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 1: All Right, When I first met Whitworth at the combine,

564
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:13,960
Speaker 1: he was being interviewed by Bill Muir, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers,

565
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 1: a terrific coaches now retired. I walked by and he

566
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,239
Speaker 1: was being interviewed and I pointed right at him, and

567
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 1: I said, and he didn't know me. I pointed him.

568
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 1: He was sitting at the table over the train station,

569
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 1: you know where I'm talking about, the you know the terminal,

570
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,160
Speaker 1: you know, at the tables, And I said, Andrew Whitworth

571
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,679
Speaker 1: left tackle, first round traffick. And he looked at me

572
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 1: like I was nuts. Now we took him early in

573
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 1: the second round, right, I had a first round? Right up?

574
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 1: This is what I saw, right, I saw Whitworth held

575
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:47,640
Speaker 1: the SEC record for the most games started of any

576
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 1: player in this history as the Southeast Conference, and over

577
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 1: that time gave up three sacks. And I said, m hmm,

578
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,919
Speaker 1: all right, Well, what don't people say, Well, okay, so

579
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 1: there it is. There's production, right, there's production. And what

580
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,480
Speaker 1: didn't I see. Well people didn't see. Oh my god,

581
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 1: he looks a little slow. Guys run around them. Well,

582
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 1: I wouldn't tell s U. And here's what happened. They

583
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 1: had the center line up, and then they had the

584
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 1: guard line up right even with him his feet were

585
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 1: they weren't back at all, right, tip away, the center's off,

586
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 1: the guard's back a little bit, and then the tackles

587
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 1: the farthest back right. Well at LSU, they had the

588
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 1: center up, they had guard up, they had to tackle him.

589
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 1: They're like in a straight line with the ball, and

590
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 1: the defensive end ran around and what Worth was always

591
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:36,920
Speaker 1: behind him pushing on them right, And so I said, oh,

592
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:39,439
Speaker 1: well that's pretty easy. Fix. I said, what were your

593
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:41,560
Speaker 1: six eight? You get your feet as far back as

594
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 1: you can bend over so that your helmet touches the

595
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 1: belt of the center. He didn't even play from a

596
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 1: classic pass proceeded. He played in two points. His two

597
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 1: point looked almost like a three point because his feet

598
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:58,159
Speaker 1: were so back and his torso was so long that

599
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 1: his belt line intersected the center. The center's belt line

600
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 1: like when Dalton and Palmer and those guys for the

601
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 1: quarterback was wret Worth was always behind them, right, But

602
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 1: what did that do? That allowed him to take two

603
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 1: full kick slides already before he even gets out of

604
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:18,400
Speaker 1: his stands, so he was way back. So that problem

605
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 1: was eliminated, all right? Um, and then what was the

606
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,159
Speaker 1: next thing? They say, Oh my god? What was an

607
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:28,400
Speaker 1: unbelievable athlete? He was a junior tennis and golf champion.

608
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:33,119
Speaker 1: I go, really, and when we had a Superstars competition

609
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 1: at the Bengals. You know, the quarterbacks weren't involved in

610
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 1: this event, but we had to throw the vault through

611
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 1: the hoop. Wit Worth one, the left tackle. Whitworth is

612
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 1: a tremendous athlete. But I told him, I said, Whitworth, unfortunately,

613
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 1: you look like hikobob Crane when you run around, all right.

614
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 1: You just look like a big stiff. All right. This

615
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 1: was when he was there, so I said, I said, Whitworth,

616
00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 1: you got to fool the scouts, right, because if you

617
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 1: run out and you've got your shoulders down, you pump

618
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 1: your arms and you look like you're running with form running.

619
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 1: The scout don't know the difference. He's gonna take his

620
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 1: pad and he's gonna putt says, oh athletic, you look

621
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 1: at athletic. Right, But if you run around there and

622
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 1: you swing your arms around, you stand up, straight up

623
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 1: and down like a fit robot, they're gonna say, bad athlete. Now,

624
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 1: the same person you just got, I tell him. I

625
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 1: told all the players. I had a lot of players

626
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 1: that made a lot of money when they became free agents,

627
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,239
Speaker 1: and I spent a lot of time on fooling the

628
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 1: pro scout. All right, you got to fool the pro scout.

629
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,959
Speaker 1: You gotta make him think you're a better athlete than

630
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 1: maybe you really are. So there's what worth. Let me

631
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 1: tell you. I don't know if you need a guy.

632
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 1: Both of those guys. In fact, I used the same

633
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 1: word to define both those guys, the same phrase, which

634
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 1: is about as high rating as I can give them both,

635
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 1: because they were both the same this way current man,

636
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 1: both of them, I mean, freaking man. I made you do. Hey,

637
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 1: those two guys, they've very rarely got in a fighting

638
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 1: practice because no one was gonna mess with those two guys,

639
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:07,720
Speaker 1: and when they did, it was pretty clear that no

640
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 1: one's going to do it again. You know, coach, you

641
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 1: have a unique perspective having coached both of those guys.

642
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 1: I would like to know, because we're seeing a shift

643
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,720
Speaker 1: in the league. What are the differences between a left

644
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 1: tackle and a prototypical right tackle. Well, I've never bought it, right,

645
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:26,480
Speaker 1: I've never bought it. I put William Anderson it right.

646
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 1: Deackally had to block straight and right. He had to block,

647
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 1: uh Green right at Lloyd. Excuse me, I forget which

648
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 1: one was wished for. They were both good. He had

649
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 1: to block, he had to block all the great players.

650
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 1: You know, Um, I never bought it. I think that

651
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 1: I think the right tack you have, you have two tackles.

652
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 1: I've always had two tackles. You know. My tackles were

653
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 1: William Anderson, Levi Jones right. The next stair was Stacy Andrews. Right.

654
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 1: It was signed the biggest contract of eight tackle the

655
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 1: straight league. Right and what were right? Andre Smith had

656
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 1: some good years. Right. Those are my tackles, and they

657
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 1: were my tackles for a long time. I've always had

658
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 1: two tackles. You gotta have two tackles. Now. Some of them,

659
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 1: well three and two of them were first round picks.

660
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 1: Are three more first round picks. One was a second,

661
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 1: one was a fourth. You know, so, uh, I think

662
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 1: you got put the investment a little bit in your tackles, right,

663
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 1: So I've never bought it. I think you've got to

664
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 1: have I think you have good tackles. Um and in

665
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 1: most cases, in most cases, the kid at Florida played

666
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 1: right tackle coming out helped me with this name this year.

667
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 1: You know he played right tackle. Yeah, yeah, Oh, Jeezy's

668
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 1: the right tackle who says I think it's a pretty

669
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 1: good athlete. He can go play left tackle. You can

670
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 1: play left tackle. Question. We were just talking before you

671
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 1: came on. Bucky was Bucky was around Walter Jones and

672
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 1: Steve Hutchinson. Um, I had it. Bucky was also around

673
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:58,960
Speaker 1: Will Shields with the with Kansas City play with him.

674
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 1: I was around jo Joe Thomas and Jason Peters. Who's

675
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 1: the best one coach? Who was the best offensive lineman

676
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 1: you've ever put your eyes on? The two best offensive linemen?

677
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 1: Are really interested? And Andrew Wi I'm not touching. I'm

678
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 1: not touching that. Were you the one who let Hutchinson go? No,

679
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 1: I had nothing to do with it. I was. I

680
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 1: was in the room when we drafted him. I was

681
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 1: in the room when we drafted him. Ever, let that

682
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:40,720
Speaker 1: one thing to wh let Husson shot. Just like the day.

683
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 1: That's a good way to end it their coach, just

684
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 1: like the day we let Whitworth and Zeitler go. I

685
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:48,720
Speaker 1: told him I quit, I'm not coming back after this,

686
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 1: and I did. Uh, well, you were right, you were

687
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 1: right on that one. Coach. Hey, we can't thank you

688
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 1: enough for your time. Coach. Uh, I know you're busy

689
00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 1: speaking all over the place. You've got a book out there. Uh,

690
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:02,719
Speaker 1: where can folks? I'll find you on Twitter because I

691
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 1: I've enjoyed following you on Twitter. Everybody likes to to

692
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 1: show all the the up and coming pass rushers, and

693
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 1: you're quick to show hey, this is not a great

694
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:13,080
Speaker 1: pass rush. This is terrible technique on the offensive line

695
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 1: side of things. So where can folks find you on Twitter?

696
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 1: At coach Paul alex There you go. Well at good

697
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:21,720
Speaker 1: Paul alex We thank you so much for your time today, Coach.

698
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 1: We appreciate a let. I feel like we learned a

699
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 1: lot today and that's the goal. Alright about good conversation

700
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 1: there with coach Alexander. I think he was right. Bengals

701
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 1: probably shouldn't have let Whitworth good Zeitler go. Probably not

702
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 1: a good decision, not a good decision because at one

703
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 1: point Man they may have had arguably the best offensive

704
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 1: line and football. Um. I was in the knows like

705
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 1: he's had a couple of good guys. I love his

706
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:47,480
Speaker 1: indecisions between having to pick between Andrew Whitworth Willie Anderson,

707
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 1: two guys who have had a lot of success in

708
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 1: the league, No doubt. Great conversation there with coach Paul Alexander.

709
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 1: That now leads us to our next conversation with legendary

710
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 1: offensive line coaches was offensive lineman a fascinating, fascinating person,

711
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 1: had a chance to work with coach Mud with the

712
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:10,239
Speaker 1: Philadelphia Eagles. Trust me, you're gonna enjoy this our conversation

713
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 1: with Howard Mudd when you're talking about offensive line play. Uh,

714
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 1: there's nobody I respect more than coach Howard Mudd and

715
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,439
Speaker 1: coach I think people are familiar with your forty plus

716
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 1: years coaching, but I don't know that everybody knows about

717
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 1: your playing career. And that's where I wanted to start.

718
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:29,880
Speaker 1: Why why did you decide to play offensive line growing up?

719
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 1: That's interesting? That is interesting. Well, I was involved in

720
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,800
Speaker 1: writing a book with a bunch of the offensive Lineman

721
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:45,719
Speaker 1: and all of that. And the one of the chapters

722
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:48,719
Speaker 1: is the offensive You don't choose the offensive line, it

723
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,360
Speaker 1: chooses you. I didn't come up with that. That was

724
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:55,319
Speaker 1: Ryan Dean, But that's usually what happens. I mean, I

725
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:58,759
Speaker 1: was played another position and all that, and I think

726
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:02,799
Speaker 1: I just grew to the size that well, you can't

727
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:04,640
Speaker 1: We're not gonna make you a runner. You're not gonna

728
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:07,239
Speaker 1: catch passes, You're not gonna you either can play on

729
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:09,319
Speaker 1: one side of the line or the other. Well, that's

730
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 1: exactly what you did three times as a pro bowler

731
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 1: in the All the All Decade team there in the sixties.

732
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:18,240
Speaker 1: What was your what was your playing style? Like? Coach?

733
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 1: What was your what what was your game like? Well,

734
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:24,240
Speaker 1: I would say that I was kind of like I coach.

735
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 1: I mean I was I was kind of an aggressive,

736
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:30,799
Speaker 1: snarley guy that I like, you know, mixing it up

737
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:34,719
Speaker 1: and not you know, I wasn't poking in the eye

738
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:36,879
Speaker 1: and all that. I'm just saying I was gonna get

739
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 1: after you, stay after you, uh, that kind of thing.

740
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,360
Speaker 1: I would say that just the aggressive style and the

741
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 1: coaching that that I've done all those years has kind

742
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,880
Speaker 1: of been the same was there something athletically in the

743
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:52,719
Speaker 1: background of guys that you saw a coach that, uh,

744
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 1: maybe off the football field that you thought helped translate

745
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 1: these guys footwork wise to the next level playing a

746
00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 1: different sport. Oh yeah, Yeah, there was a couple of things. One, uh,

747
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 1: there was a sport that that that I'm thinking of

748
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:09,239
Speaker 1: two guys that I coached and there might be more

749
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 1: that were wrestlers in high school. And they all had

750
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 1: a sense of balance. Now you can say, well, do

751
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:18,840
Speaker 1: they have good feet? Well, wrestlers, you either if you

752
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 1: don't have good feet and you don't have good balance,

753
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 1: you're gonna get pinned and uh, and they have a

754
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 1: sense of leverage. Well, so that's a characteristic that would

755
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 1: be a you know, a comparable or you know, a sport.

756
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:35,279
Speaker 1: What I did with guys was people that had that

757
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 1: tended to have stiffer feet, that they had their feet

758
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:42,880
Speaker 1: locked in place and you know, and they're characteristic style.

759
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 1: I have a bunch of drills that I do for that.

760
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 1: Um And I guess I'll stop right here and say,

761
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:53,759
Speaker 1: if I were going to characterize my coaching, I'd say

762
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 1: I'm a finishing coach. You finish with your feet. I

763
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:00,759
Speaker 1: have more drills that after contact than those that are

764
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 1: before and too before contact. Uh you know, you put

765
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 1: them putter person in the in the position after contact

766
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 1: and get them to start moving their feet. It's sometimes

767
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 1: sometimes putting getting the bar, you get in the crowd

768
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:22,400
Speaker 1: and your jostle draw. It's not it's counterintuitive to to

769
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:24,680
Speaker 1: move your feet. What you want to do if you

770
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 1: get pushed as you stop your feet and you try

771
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 1: to wrestle with someone and you have the most efficient

772
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:32,840
Speaker 1: thing that you can do is when you when you

773
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 1: get body the body, and whether that's passed or or

774
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 1: the make a difference. But when you get body the

775
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:43,200
Speaker 1: body and you're stuck, start moving your feet. It's counterintuitive.

776
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:46,600
Speaker 1: And so we have drills that we you know, the

777
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 1: interval between contact and drive and after drive, you know,

778
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 1: you move your feet, move your feet, and I want

779
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:54,879
Speaker 1: to see it on video. Well, I guess I could

780
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:57,720
Speaker 1: say that. You know, this year, I'm gone back to work.

781
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 1: I went back and looked at the stuff that we

782
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 1: did here. It was two thousand nine, and those guys

783
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:06,640
Speaker 1: really knew how to move their feet, they know how

784
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:09,600
Speaker 1: to finish. They got to it. I love that one

785
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 1: of the other notes I took down coach from from

786
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:14,000
Speaker 1: when we used to chat a little bit. Um, the

787
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:17,360
Speaker 1: rhythm of a block. You talk about fast slow, fast.

788
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 1: For those that don't know what that means, can you

789
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:23,680
Speaker 1: explain that, Wow, you did remember all this stuff. I'm impressed. Um,

790
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:27,239
Speaker 1: try to take notes, coach. Oh you did, but you

791
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 1: but it it resonated with you. Then there's a rhythm

792
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:33,799
Speaker 1: to a block if you're if you're when I say

793
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 1: fast slow, when the when the ball is snapped. As

794
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 1: the balls being snapped, you have to go somewhere. You

795
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 1: have to go somewhere to make contact. Then you make contact,

796
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:46,520
Speaker 1: and then there's another rhythm. Okay, so this is a

797
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 1: little strange, but this is the way I look at

798
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 1: it in a different ways. You know, I'm different. When

799
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 1: you're run blocking, you don't do you don't go fast. First,

800
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 1: you go slow. Your first step or two might be

801
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 1: slow to gather your your position and lower your center gravity.

802
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 1: Then you you move youve fast quickly to make contact,

803
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:14,919
Speaker 1: and then you slow yourself down to maintain your your

804
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 1: your leverage on the guy so that you don't lose contact.

805
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 1: Because if you go into a run block and you're

806
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 1: fast at the beginning, you might miss. You want to

807
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 1: make contact and leverage that man the point of attack

808
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 1: and get the pads under his And when you make contact,

809
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 1: if you start making driving steps and you don't have

810
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 1: the strength advantage, he's going to throw you off. So

811
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:42,280
Speaker 1: the most important thing is that after contact you maintain

812
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:47,479
Speaker 1: you maintain uh contact from UH so that you don't

813
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 1: have to you don't have to start over. Don't let

814
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 1: that guy stop your momentum. Okay, maintain your momentum. Let's

815
00:39:55,239 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 1: run blocking and pass blocking. Interesting. I believe that you

816
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 1: move somewhere, you go fast, and then you slow yourself

817
00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:08,760
Speaker 1: down for the moment of contact and put your hands

818
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 1: in there, put your head in there, put it whatever

819
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:12,920
Speaker 1: it is, and your feet are you know, but you

820
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 1: you've you've gone fast. Settle was the word I used,

821
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:22,719
Speaker 1: which slows yourself your momentum down so it's fast. Then

822
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 1: you settled. Then when you finish the guy, then you

823
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:29,920
Speaker 1: start moving your feet again or your body quickly, hands

824
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:33,600
Speaker 1: and feet to finish it. Okay. Jason Peters, who we

825
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:38,279
Speaker 1: both know, a lot of people know Jason Peters. He's

826
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:40,799
Speaker 1: a great player. So when I introduced this stuff to

827
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:46,799
Speaker 1: him in the past protection stuff. You know, We're go

828
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:50,279
Speaker 1: somewhere real quickly, and then then settle your feet, you know,

829
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:54,880
Speaker 1: settle you know, like I'm gonna come and crowd you.

830
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:56,839
Speaker 1: You got the ball in your hand, and I got

831
00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:59,399
Speaker 1: to guard the basket, which is the quarterback. I'm gonna

832
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:02,960
Speaker 1: get real close and I'm gonna I'm going to uh

833
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:06,239
Speaker 1: boost in my body up so that I can redirect

834
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:09,840
Speaker 1: myself when you try to go around me. Okay, so

835
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 1: I call that settling your feet fast, slow fast. Jason

836
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 1: Peters called that soft feet when you get there, have

837
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:21,680
Speaker 1: soft feet. I just loved it. That's exactly what he

838
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:24,279
Speaker 1: looks like when he passed protects. And now that you

839
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:26,320
Speaker 1: put that kind of image in my mind, I'm thinking

840
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:28,839
Speaker 1: of just growing up, you know, going through high school

841
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 1: and college and and listen to defensive coaches talk. You

842
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:33,960
Speaker 1: always talk about come to balance. You want to try

843
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 1: and you know, if you're a linebacker, covern or running

844
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 1: back and you want to you want to close the

845
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 1: space as fast as you can, then you've got to

846
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:42,480
Speaker 1: come to balance. It sounds like past protecting. That's it's

847
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 1: it's very similar, right, and so coming to balance is

848
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:50,680
Speaker 1: settling you're settling your momentum so that you have control

849
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:55,200
Speaker 1: over the next movement that you make reaction if you will.

850
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 1: Where it's a it's a you know, hopefully it's appropriate.

851
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:01,360
Speaker 1: You've got close enough to do it. If he's a

852
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:03,239
Speaker 1: better athlete, you know are you probably don't have good

853
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:06,880
Speaker 1: control of it. But the point is is that coming

854
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 1: to balance is exactly what I'm describing, and it's um

855
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:13,919
Speaker 1: getting yourself in a position so that you can redirect

856
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:19,560
Speaker 1: and uh and shut off that guy's angle to the

857
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:22,280
Speaker 1: to the ball carrier, or you can shut him shut

858
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 1: off if you're a if you're a tackler, you come

859
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 1: to balance. I call it settling so that you can

860
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:36,799
Speaker 1: redirect yourself and execute a tackle, or you can execute

861
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 1: covering the guide that's he's making a move and you

862
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:44,239
Speaker 1: know you're you're a corner, or you're covering a guy

863
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:51,439
Speaker 1: and you can redirect yourself without without being out of control. Coach,

864
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:53,839
Speaker 1: what do you do timing wise? Now? I know you're

865
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 1: getting back into it here and helping the colts out,

866
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 1: but just seeing the way the game has changed, and look,

867
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:02,000
Speaker 1: I fully understand the time you spent in Annapolis. You

868
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:04,919
Speaker 1: guys threw it plenty, but it seems now teams throwing

869
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:07,000
Speaker 1: it more and more and more. How would you break

870
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:09,399
Speaker 1: up your time? You're limited in practice time right now

871
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:13,399
Speaker 1: in the NFL. If you're if people were listening and wondering, uh,

872
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:16,480
Speaker 1: in terms of breaking it up percentage wise, the amount

873
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:18,200
Speaker 1: of time you would spent on the run game versus

874
00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:19,960
Speaker 1: the amount of time you would spend on the passing game.

875
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:22,279
Speaker 1: What would that look like in today's game? I think

876
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 1: you you spend the most amount of time on the

877
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:29,359
Speaker 1: most difficult thing. The most difficult is pass protection. And

878
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 1: even if it's an inordinate amount compared to if it's

879
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:39,520
Speaker 1: disproportionate or whatever, that that prasiology is two. If if

880
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:43,919
Speaker 1: you spend uh, let's say that individual time, practice time,

881
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 1: that sort of thing. Um, if you throw the ball

882
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:50,920
Speaker 1: sixty of the time, I'd spend eighty percent of my

883
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 1: time doing something in past protection. When I can pass protect,

884
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 1: I feel so good about where I'm at because all

885
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:00,160
Speaker 1: of the body movements that are that are required or

886
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 1: to react to the man and redirect myself, get myself

887
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:07,759
Speaker 1: in the right position, don't get faked out. I don't

888
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:10,479
Speaker 1: know what to do with each little movement he makes

889
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 1: if he bullrushes me, I know how to do that.

890
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:15,879
Speaker 1: You know, I'm a maverick. I spin and hop and

891
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:18,560
Speaker 1: do all kinds of stuff. I do everything that I

892
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:21,600
Speaker 1: can to keep myself in front of that guy. Most

893
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:26,480
Speaker 1: of all of them are athletic things because the football

894
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 1: I think, I don't think football is an offensive vironment

895
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:33,920
Speaker 1: isn't played with strength and power, is played with leverage, quickness,

896
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 1: that's what it's played with. If you're strong and you're

897
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 1: quick and agile and have balance, and you know, you

898
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:42,279
Speaker 1: got a Hall of Famer. Now you start getting to

899
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:44,400
Speaker 1: the elite, the rare, the rare. Actually, one of the

900
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:45,640
Speaker 1: guys I was just thinking of my head is a

901
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:47,319
Speaker 1: guy you're gonna be around a lot. Is this this

902
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:51,760
Speaker 1: Quintin Nelson who's got the aggressiveness and the raw strength,

903
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:53,400
Speaker 1: but then he can dance around if you want to

904
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:57,359
Speaker 1: do that as well, Right, And he's learning this year

905
00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 1: to be an athlete, be for content, and that's what

906
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 1: that's kind of what we're charging him. Think about yourself

907
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:08,440
Speaker 1: as an athlete first, that all that strength and power

908
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 1: and aggressiveness and all that that stuff was just great

909
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:15,000
Speaker 1: will come if you're in the right position. Your heads

910
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:17,240
Speaker 1: and the right you know, and you've got your your

911
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:20,239
Speaker 1: you've got the man, leverage your hands on the right

912
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:22,440
Speaker 1: place and started moving your feet. It's over for him

913
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:25,320
Speaker 1: because you've got so much talent, No question, coach, I

914
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:26,920
Speaker 1: know you gotta run. I want to get you one

915
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:29,799
Speaker 1: more question and then I'll let you go. But um

916
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:32,239
Speaker 1: looking in my just time and scouting. Got a chance

917
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:34,359
Speaker 1: to be around Jonathan Auden with the Ravens and Joe

918
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:37,320
Speaker 1: Thomas with the Browns. But I always thought Jason Peters

919
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:39,400
Speaker 1: was one that deserved to be up in that. In

920
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:42,759
Speaker 1: that conversation, he's I don't I've ever seen anybody with

921
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:45,880
Speaker 1: the combination of skills that he had. But the best

922
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:48,560
Speaker 1: one that you've you've had a chance to be around, coach,

923
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:50,239
Speaker 1: I don't want you to get yourself in trouble with

924
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:54,759
Speaker 1: your former guys here. Who is it? No, no, no, no,

925
00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:58,640
Speaker 1: there's no question about There's no question. Walter Jones is

926
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 1: the best that I think that ever played. Because he

927
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:07,120
Speaker 1: had the combination of all of the things you're talking about,

928
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:11,279
Speaker 1: he could play less than and because he always had

929
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:14,360
Speaker 1: something left at contact when the ball is mad, whatever

930
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:17,560
Speaker 1: he could reach anyone, he could reach, block a guy

931
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 1: that's two men removed to the outside. Don't tell him

932
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 1: he can't do that, and then and do it looking

933
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:29,240
Speaker 1: like he's comfortable, like he still had something left. And uh.

934
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:32,239
Speaker 1: He did everything with such great ease, and he did

935
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 1: it right from the time he was a rookie. So

936
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:39,280
Speaker 1: there's one Hall of Famer. Okay, that's an h left guy. Hey, coach,

937
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:41,800
Speaker 1: I could do this for hours and hours and hours.

938
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:44,680
Speaker 1: I I can't thank you enough. It's always it's always

939
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 1: a pleasure of mind to get a chance to to

940
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:49,759
Speaker 1: learn from you, take some notes, and hopefully we'll get

941
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:52,760
Speaker 1: better at evaluating this offensive line position. I really appreciate

942
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:57,399
Speaker 1: your time. Well, you're very welcome. Coach Mud is one

943
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:00,839
Speaker 1: of the most knowledgeable guys. And I'm talking not uh

944
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 1: you know this decade, that decade we're talking about over

945
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:06,840
Speaker 1: a forty year period, there's nobody better to talk offensive

946
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:09,160
Speaker 1: lineman with than Howard Mudd. No. Absolutely, he has been

947
00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:10,440
Speaker 1: able to get it done. He's been able to take

948
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:12,200
Speaker 1: a collection of a bunch of different guys, put him

949
00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:15,840
Speaker 1: together and put out successful units. His look, his resume

950
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:17,759
Speaker 1: speaks for himself. But the work that he has done

951
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:20,400
Speaker 1: and the players that he's had uh that he's touched.

952
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:22,759
Speaker 1: I mean we've seen it reflected in their play. He

953
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:25,600
Speaker 1: has put his impact all on them. All Right, we're

954
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:28,239
Speaker 1: gonna split up the prototypes here because we end these

955
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:30,320
Speaker 1: episodes by giving you who we believe as a prototype

956
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:32,760
Speaker 1: at the position. But since we've kind of lumped offensive

957
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:35,520
Speaker 1: line altogether, why don't you give us a prototype on

958
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:37,520
Speaker 1: the outside, could be a right tackle or left tackle,

959
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:39,520
Speaker 1: And I'll give you who I believe is a prototype

960
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:42,160
Speaker 1: on the inside at either center guard. Look this tough,

961
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:44,359
Speaker 1: because this guy has slipped a little bit in terms

962
00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:46,560
Speaker 1: of the injuries have taken some of his game away.

963
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:49,200
Speaker 1: But Tyron Smith, to me from the Dallas Cowboys is

964
00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:52,080
Speaker 1: a prototype. We saw him at see he was big,

965
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:54,800
Speaker 1: he was long. He's nimble, great balance and body control,

966
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:57,200
Speaker 1: but also has the strength to finish you in the

967
00:47:57,280 --> 00:48:00,359
Speaker 1: run game. But it's also an effective fast protect. He's

968
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:02,680
Speaker 1: everything that you want in a left houckle. Yeah, he's

969
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 1: so lucky getting off the bus. He'd be the first

970
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:07,759
Speaker 1: one I can promise you that. Uh. And as athletic

971
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:09,600
Speaker 1: is all get out. I remember watching him at USC.

972
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:11,799
Speaker 1: He was played in the two and seventy eight twent

973
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:14,600
Speaker 1: seventy nine pounds something like that, um and has really

974
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:17,440
Speaker 1: grown into being a full grown man and when healthy,

975
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:19,319
Speaker 1: as good as it gets on the inside. Buck, I'm

976
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:21,680
Speaker 1: gonna go Quenton Nelson with the Colts coming off his

977
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:24,959
Speaker 1: rookie season. This is somebody we talked about so much

978
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:27,319
Speaker 1: in the run up to the draft. Before his his

979
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:29,520
Speaker 1: rookie campaign, I went on record and said he's the

980
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 1: best run blocker I've ever evaluated. I'm not talking just guard,

981
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:35,880
Speaker 1: I'm saying offensive lineman period. I've never seen anybody do

982
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 1: what he does in the run game, and he immediately

983
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:40,560
Speaker 1: did the exact same things at the NFL level. Now,

984
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:43,120
Speaker 1: that alone would not be enough to make your prototype

985
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:45,560
Speaker 1: in a passing league. Uh, this guy does that the

986
00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:48,799
Speaker 1: run game, but that he can slide, redirect, bend all

987
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:51,719
Speaker 1: the things you want to do in past protection. So, man,

988
00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:53,440
Speaker 1: I don't know if he'll ever find one like him

989
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:55,680
Speaker 1: over the next decade, but we're gonna try. That's the

990
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:58,080
Speaker 1: prototype in my opinion. Man, it is so hard to

991
00:48:58,080 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 1: find these guys, do you league guys, but they still

992
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:02,359
Speaker 1: end out from from the pack. I think the big

993
00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:04,359
Speaker 1: thing we know a good one when you see one

994
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:07,160
Speaker 1: and they typically have the same courtrays balanced by the

995
00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:09,759
Speaker 1: control strength they can finish, and they can do a

996
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:11,880
Speaker 1: variety of different things as run blockers have also has

997
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:15,680
Speaker 1: pass porticks. Absolutely well. This has been a fun episode

998
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:17,480
Speaker 1: and wraps up the offensive side of the ball in

999
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:20,600
Speaker 1: our prototype series. If you haven't checked out the other episodes,

1000
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:24,160
Speaker 1: I think you'll enjoy. We've got quarterbacks, running backs, wide receivers,

1001
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:27,160
Speaker 1: offensive line and wait, I'm forgetting we still got tight ends.

1002
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:29,560
Speaker 1: We still got tight ends to do. Not done with

1003
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:31,399
Speaker 1: the y'all, No we're not. We got we gotta talk

1004
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:33,600
Speaker 1: about those big basketball athletes that have kind of made

1005
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:36,200
Speaker 1: a conversion to put on the pads. Yeah, we've got

1006
00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:38,200
Speaker 1: tight ends to come and then we will get over

1007
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:41,520
Speaker 1: to the defensive side of the ball. Appreciate you guys listening.

1008
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:43,239
Speaker 1: If you're just checking us out for the first time,

1009
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:46,279
Speaker 1: do us a favorite, subscribe to the podcast. I do

1010
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:48,839
Speaker 1: believe you'll enjoy it, rate us, review us. We do

1011
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:52,320
Speaker 1: appreciate that as well. He's Bucky Brooks, I'm Daniel Jeremiah.

1012
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:54,640
Speaker 1: We'll catch you next time right here on Move the Sticks.

1013
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 1: Thanks for downloading Move the Sticks with Daniel Jeremiah and

1014
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:14,279
Speaker 1: he Brooks. For more, go to NFL dot com slash podcasts, Yeah,