1 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:06,520 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff. Mom never told you from how stuff works, 2 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:14,320 Speaker 1: not come hello, would welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen, 3 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:18,200 Speaker 1: and I'm Caroline, and Caroline, I'm in the midst of 4 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:23,480 Speaker 1: doing something I never really dreamed about, really planning my wedding, 5 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 1: all right. Yeah, it has been an interesting process, I'll 6 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 1: put it that way, because walking into this, obviously I 7 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:37,200 Speaker 1: have so much stuff Mom never told you, know how 8 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 1: about all of the constructs and the wherefores and wise 9 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 1: of these very strange wedding traditions that we tend to follow. 10 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 1: But once you actually get into the weeds of wedding planning, 11 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 1: it can be intense. I would imagine I would be. 12 00:00:56,280 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 1: I'm imagining lots of pressure from lots of people in 13 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 1: the rides life. I'm not necessarily stening to you, Kristen, 14 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:05,959 Speaker 1: but imagine there's a lot of pressure. Yeah, I mean, 15 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 1: I don't know how much pressure is directly from people 16 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 1: in my life. I gotta hand it to my parents. 17 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 1: They've been extremely chill about the whole thing. But what 18 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:21,399 Speaker 1: surprised me the most is the media pressure that I felt. 19 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 1: Because as soon as you start digging into a lot 20 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 1: of the mainstream wedding media. You quickly understand why the 21 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 1: average cost of a wedding in the United States is 22 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:39,959 Speaker 1: a little over twenty six dollars. Why because there's so much. 23 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:46,200 Speaker 1: There's just so much, and since it's wedding, there's often 24 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:50,040 Speaker 1: a markup, and you've got a statistical rundown right of 25 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 1: some of the individual expenses. Yeah, So before I dive 26 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 1: into individual stuff, I would just like to point out 27 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 1: that as of just a few years ago, not too 28 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 1: long ago, um, the wedding industry in the United States 29 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:07,920 Speaker 1: was worth fifty three point four billion dollars. That's that's 30 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 1: so much money. And it's even crazier because if you 31 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 1: look at gifts that were purchased in off of wedding registries, 32 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 1: people collectively in the US spent nineteen billion dollars on 33 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 1: wedding gifts. So I hope your registry looks good. Conger 34 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 1: and well, I've registered for nineteen billion dollars with a 35 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 1: gift perfect. You're great, You're right on average. It was interesting. 36 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 1: So I was looking at some some stats and interesting 37 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:36,679 Speaker 1: tidbits about weddings and the wedding industry off of this 38 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 1: CNN story from a couple of years ago, and in twelve, 39 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: they pointed out that seventeen percent of American brides opted 40 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:50,839 Speaker 1: for a quote unquote casual wedding, which is apparently much 41 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 1: more than it had been in previous years. It just 42 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 1: means that you're wearing a denim dress, the Britney Spears dress, 43 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 1: You're dressed like Britney Spears, and justin Timberlake whatever year, 44 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 1: that one of the very best couple photo of all time. Yes, Well, 45 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:08,080 Speaker 1: the thing is casual is such a deceptive term, I 46 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 1: feel like, because casual can mean a courthouse wedding with 47 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 1: a backyard party, but casual can also mean just casual 48 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:22,399 Speaker 1: looking and thousands upon thousands of dollars. So I now 49 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 1: view the word casual in a wedding context with a 50 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 1: very skeptical eye. Yeah, but that's something that we're talking 51 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 1: about today with our special gifts, that's right. I gotta 52 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:34,079 Speaker 1: tell you, Caroline and I and I'm not saying this 53 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 1: as some kind of paid endorsement um Legitimately, long before 54 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 1: we were introduced, a practical wedding has been a lifesaver 55 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 1: and sanity preserver for me during this wedding planning, because 56 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 1: I'm doing a lot of it with McGroom to be 57 00:03:55,640 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 1: d i Y Style and a Practical Wedding was created 58 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 1: by Meg Keene, who we're talking to you today in 59 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 1: two thousand and eight, and it is just a haven 60 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 1: for literally what it says, like, practical advice about wedding planning. Yeah, 61 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 1: it's a great website and it's also a book. Now 62 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 1: it's a book. It's actually two books. So a little 63 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 1: while back she published a Practical Wedding Creative Solutions for 64 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:27,840 Speaker 1: Planning a Beautiful, affordable and meaningful Celebration, and just recently 65 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 1: the newest Practical Wedding book came out, which is a 66 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: Practical Wedding Planner, a step by step guide to cutting 67 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:40,040 Speaker 1: through the crazy and creating the wedding you want. And 68 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:44,039 Speaker 1: if you're someone like me who is a feminist and 69 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 1: you're marrying a feminist and you're approaching this wedding thing, 70 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:48,919 Speaker 1: and you're like, okay, there's a whole money aspect, but 71 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 1: there's also the whole like patriarchal tradition in white dress 72 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 1: and father giving me away and all of this, and 73 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 1: what do we do with that? Go to a practical wedding. 74 00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 1: It's seriously, it's like it's an amazing wedding site for 75 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:04,040 Speaker 1: I mean for anybody, but for feminists. Well, I mean 76 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 1: it literally says on the website that they support laid 77 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: back feminist weddings. That's fantastic. And we were so thrilled 78 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 1: to get to talk to Meg because she has I 79 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 1: mean just so much insight from the time that she's 80 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:20,599 Speaker 1: now spent in the wedding industry. But she's also she 81 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:23,839 Speaker 1: I mean, she's just hilarious and wise. Oh god, she's 82 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:26,160 Speaker 1: so funny. I think I think we should no matter 83 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 1: what our sminthy topic is, we should just have her 84 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 1: on the phone. I know, I know, and we we 85 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 1: had so much to chat with her about. This is 86 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 1: actually gonna be two part conversations, So today we're going 87 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 1: to talk with Meg about this whole practical wedding thing 88 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:44,480 Speaker 1: and how weddings became so impractical and what a feminist 89 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:49,159 Speaker 1: wedding and a feminist bride and groom really means. So, 90 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 1: without further ado, Meg Keane, ladies and gentlemen, well, Meg Keane, 91 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us, UM for listeners 92 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:04,600 Speaker 1: who haven't heard of you and a practical wedding, could 93 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 1: you just talk a little bit about who you are 94 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:14,280 Speaker 1: and this amazing site and now two books that you've written. Sure, UM, 95 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 1: so I am sort of an unlikely wedding expert. UM. 96 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:21,040 Speaker 1: The fact that I am a wedding expert has sort 97 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:25,360 Speaker 1: of taken me by surprise for the last few years. UM. 98 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 1: I started the site almost eight years ago, which seems 99 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 1: insane to me at this point. UM, right after I 100 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 1: got engaged. And that was back in the day where 101 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:38,159 Speaker 1: you could just sort of sign up for blog spot 102 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:42,800 Speaker 1: and start typing away and if you're lucky, people would 103 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 1: read along. UM. And I I was lucky, UM, and 104 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 1: people read along UM. And it really has just sort 105 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 1: of grown gradually and then quickly, and now we're one 106 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 1: of the biggest wedding sites in the English language. I 107 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 1: always say in the English language, because I'm like, there's 108 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 1: probably a huge one in China that I don't know 109 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 1: about other country. UM. And I have written two books, 110 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 1: creatively titled A Practical Wedding and A Practical Wedding Planner. 111 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 1: The latter comes out UM this month. UH. And the 112 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 1: first one was sort of a it's your bff talking 113 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 1: you through wedding planning. I would say it's sort of 114 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:33,480 Speaker 1: a d programming of the wedding industry. UM. I talked 115 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 1: about the history of weddings, the actual real life history 116 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 1: of weddings. UM. I talk about, you know how tradition 117 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:43,680 Speaker 1: is actually just being nice to people. UM, and I 118 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 1: sort of try to undo all of that horrible, stressful 119 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 1: nonsense that the wedding industry has his ground into female 120 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 1: brains for so long. UM. And then the newest book 121 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: which is just coming out, UM, I spent nine grew 122 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 1: ling months interviewing tens and tens of people while pregnant. 123 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 1: Don't recommend UM and that is really like the logistical 124 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 1: wedding planning book that I would have probably given my 125 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 1: right arm for when I was planning a wedding. The 126 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 1: cover sort of everything from UM sample dolls you can use, 127 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 1: to how far apart your tables need to be UM 128 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:22,760 Speaker 1: so you can walk between them too, how to set 129 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 1: a wedding budget, to what the real expenses of taco 130 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 1: truck wed weddings are, to non traditional wedding venues, and 131 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 1: what to know just sort of all of that information 132 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 1: that once you're on the ground plant planning, you're like, 133 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 1: oh my god, I super need to know this, and 134 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:41,679 Speaker 1: there's really no way to find out which is a 135 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 1: weird thing about the wage. So I'm dying to know 136 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:49,319 Speaker 1: you use the word deep programming. So as a as 137 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: an unengaged, unmarried lady, I need to know what is 138 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 1: the stuff that we need to be deprogrammed from and 139 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: what what is the stuff that's been ground into us 140 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:01,079 Speaker 1: about weddings and wedding planning we like think, I mean 141 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:05,080 Speaker 1: sort of. The interesting thing is how big weddings have gotten, 142 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:09,080 Speaker 1: uh kind of while we weren't looking, I think, Um, 143 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 1: and how difficult that is when you actually start to plan. Um. 144 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 1: It's funny when you actually compare weddings as they are now, 145 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 1: Um to weddings you probably went to as a kid, 146 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 1: or I certainly went to it as a kid in 147 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:30,719 Speaker 1: the eighties. Uh. They really don't look alike at all, 148 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: and they certainly don't look like anything like say, my 149 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 1: parents wedding in the mid seventies. Um. So weddings of 150 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:41,200 Speaker 1: balloon to become this huge and hugely expensive thing where, 151 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 1: for example, you kind of assume that you'll serve people 152 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:47,560 Speaker 1: a seated meal. Um, there's all these assumptions that you 153 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 1: have going into planning just from TV shows and commercials. 154 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:56,479 Speaker 1: I think commercials are the worst, um, and wedding magazines 155 00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 1: and friends weddings, and so you sort of come into 156 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 1: it with like, great, I'm just gonna have seated meal 157 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 1: and this like nice wedding dress and a letter of 158 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 1: presentations and it's gonna be great. And then you add 159 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:11,960 Speaker 1: that up and you're like, oh, that's like sixty thousand dollars, 160 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:16,080 Speaker 1: so maybe I'm not having that. So there's all of that, 161 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 1: and then there's the the gender issues, which I think 162 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:23,840 Speaker 1: are really deep seated obviously, um in terms of the 163 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:28,640 Speaker 1: fact that weddings are you know, the roots. Roots are 164 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:31,320 Speaker 1: very patriarchal, and there's a lot of really sort of 165 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 1: stiff gender roles going on there, and within wedding planning 166 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 1: even even more so. I think the mini start planning 167 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:40,959 Speaker 1: a wedding, you get sort of every success for Mark 168 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:44,320 Speaker 1: in the book, um from like every random person on 169 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:48,959 Speaker 1: the street. UM. So trying to grapple with that is 170 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:53,080 Speaker 1: another sort of deep programming elements. So it's that whole like, oh, 171 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 1: I thought I wanted all of these things, and do 172 00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:58,960 Speaker 1: I really want all of these things or have I 173 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:02,040 Speaker 1: just been conditioned to want all of these things? And 174 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:04,560 Speaker 1: what can I hoard and what one of my values 175 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:08,120 Speaker 1: and all of that. I am curious in all of 176 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:12,200 Speaker 1: the research that you've done on the history of weddings 177 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 1: and like the cultural history, if you noticed that turning 178 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:21,560 Speaker 1: point when weddings did become so impractical and did become 179 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 1: this whole wedding industrial complex machine that we think about 180 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 1: so much today. I think I thought a lot about 181 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 1: this question, and I think that probably the most critical 182 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 1: turning point was Princess size wedding. I don't think it 183 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 1: actually was that wedding, but I think that cultural shifts 184 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:49,200 Speaker 1: were sort of happening right then, and that was the 185 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 1: you know that gives you sort of a local point, um. 186 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 1: But I think that there were cultural shifts happening in 187 00:11:56,040 --> 00:12:01,960 Speaker 1: the Lakes seventies, um that sort of all culminated in 188 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:06,080 Speaker 1: the eighties where and I think probably the most critical 189 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 1: cultural shift was weddings went from being um, just a 190 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 1: fact of life, just you know, you grew up and 191 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 1: you got married and that was what happened, UM to 192 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 1: an optional thing, right, Like suddenly people were cohabitating, not 193 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 1: getting married. So suddenly then UM, having a wedding was 194 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 1: like a little bit more of a special snowflake decision. 195 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:35,960 Speaker 1: I think, um, and people didn't want to, you know, 196 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 1: the countercultural movement was really, you know, happening, and people 197 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 1: didn't want to just sort of go along to go along, 198 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 1: and they wanted to make a statement. Um, and that 199 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 1: was sort of the wise of the wedding industry was 200 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:50,840 Speaker 1: happening at happening at the same time. So I think 201 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 1: that's when it when it started. And then um, you 202 00:12:54,960 --> 00:13:00,840 Speaker 1: have Martha Stewart weddings starting and I want to say um. 203 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:03,559 Speaker 1: And so I think you have another training points sort 204 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 1: of right around then as well, where it really powered 205 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:14,199 Speaker 1: up even more. Thanks a lot, Martha. It's also pretty, 206 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:15,840 Speaker 1: and then you're like, how much will it cost me 207 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 1: to do it? All of the moneys I've ever made? 208 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:22,079 Speaker 1: It's so pretty. I made the mistake when I first 209 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 1: got engaged of running to the grocery store and picking 210 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 1: up Bride's magazine and Martha Stewart's Wedding just for fun, 211 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 1: and gave myself a panic attack flipping through it, just 212 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:35,959 Speaker 1: being like, oh my gosh, I can never do this. 213 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 1: What how okay? Well, I can't even do anything that's 214 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 1: in her regular magazine, so I sure as hell I 215 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 1: don't think I can do anything in her bridal magazine. 216 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 1: But I mean that kind of leads me to the 217 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:52,680 Speaker 1: question of the whole d I Y movement. It seems 218 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:56,319 Speaker 1: like there's this I don't know if it's a pinterest 219 00:13:56,480 --> 00:14:00,040 Speaker 1: push or if it's another cultural shift that we're seeing it. 220 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 1: There is this push to have on the flip side, 221 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 1: like a super cheap wedding, like instead of buying into 222 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:09,960 Speaker 1: the industrial wedding complex, you're gonna you know, make everything 223 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 1: from popsicle sticks but wedding. But whether it's a d 224 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 1: I Y wedding that you're paying a lot for in 225 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 1: terms of like you're crafting so much that you have 226 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 1: to spend so much money, or whether it really is 227 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 1: like super d i Y and you're trying to keep 228 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 1: it super cheap. How can you accomplish something along those 229 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 1: lines and not lose your mind trying that kind of wedding? 230 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:36,400 Speaker 1: Does that make sense? Yeah? It does. And I would 231 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: say that that really starts to the the session right 232 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 1: that that's where that shift took place, um, which was 233 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 1: right around when I was getting married. Um it's a 234 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 1: balance and I think I actually learned writing this book 235 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 1: more than I had any idea before, even though I'd 236 00:14:55,600 --> 00:15:00,600 Speaker 1: been doing this for um nearly that. Okay, it's sort 237 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 1: of embarrassing how much I learned writing this book, because 238 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 1: I was like, I probably should have known this already somehow. Um. 239 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 1: But writing this book, I really got a grip on 240 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 1: the fact that d I Y isn't always cheaper, and 241 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 1: that I think you need to be really careful if you. 242 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: I mean, there's two reasons c d I Y. You're 243 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 1: maybe d I ying because you want to make something 244 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:26,120 Speaker 1: extra special personal, or you want to make something with 245 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 1: your hands, or you know, for a lot of people, 246 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:32,840 Speaker 1: weddings are like this sort of suddenly this creative vocal 247 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:35,600 Speaker 1: point and outlet, you know, while they're they're in there 248 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 1: in twenties now and they're sitting at a desk all 249 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 1: day doing something, you know, incredibly uncreative. So if that's 250 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 1: the case, like great, not counsel about um. But then 251 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 1: there's the other the other instinct to d I Y 252 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 1: to save money UM. And I think I fell warrant 253 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 1: to that camp. Certainly. We just couldn't afford you know, 254 00:15:57,680 --> 00:15:59,760 Speaker 1: we could afford what I thought was a ton of money, 255 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 1: but it was still you know, half of the average 256 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 1: for the area. So, um, we were needing to cut corners, 257 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:11,200 Speaker 1: and UM, we certainly made some mistakes um in that. 258 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 1: For example, we did d I Y all of our flowers. Um. 259 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 1: And it's totally possible to do that, and I actually 260 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 1: outlined in the book sort of all the best practices 261 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 1: if you're going to do that. But if I were 262 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 1: going to go back and do it all again, I 263 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:28,560 Speaker 1: would order order personal flowers, you know, bouquets um from 264 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:31,120 Speaker 1: a florist and probably just not have center pieces on 265 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 1: the tables and call it quits. Because we spent so 266 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 1: much money on d I Y and our own flowers, 267 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 1: there was like the test run to make sure that 268 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 1: we knew what we were doing, which I'm glad we did, uh, 269 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 1: And then not knowing how many flowers to buy, right, 270 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:48,360 Speaker 1: so we went to the flower market and like in 271 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 1: a drunk spending spree of crazy bought like every flower 272 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 1: under the sun, and then you know, to make sure 273 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:57,359 Speaker 1: we didn't run out, and then like buying all the supplies. 274 00:16:57,400 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 1: And so I think that's really sort of a case 275 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 1: study and like being careful what d I Y choices 276 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: you make, and also being really realistic about how many 277 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:10,840 Speaker 1: of them you take on. And my cardinal rule is 278 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:14,040 Speaker 1: the inverse of what you think is true, which is 279 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 1: you should only d I Y something if you care 280 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:20,160 Speaker 1: a lot about it, and if you don't care about 281 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:22,440 Speaker 1: it and you're just trying to save money, like that's 282 00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 1: it's it's the other way, where things you don't care 283 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 1: about you should throw money at to make them go away, 284 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 1: and things that you do care about you might spend 285 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:33,639 Speaker 1: less money on and like work on it with your hands. 286 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 1: But if you don't care about flowers, you're gonna want 287 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 1: to kill yourself. If you to save money have dedicated 288 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 1: like you know, days of your life to this project. Well, 289 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:49,679 Speaker 1: that kind of reminds me of the along with the 290 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:53,560 Speaker 1: d I Y culture. Sort of connected to that is 291 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:56,960 Speaker 1: the rise of the chill bride, where I mean, I 292 00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:59,160 Speaker 1: wouldn't say that the d I Y bride is necessarily 293 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 1: the chill bride, but they're they're sort of in the 294 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:05,880 Speaker 1: same family. They're related, um, and you know, we all 295 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 1: know how terrible the bride Zilla is. But I'm curious 296 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:14,119 Speaker 1: about your your observations in terms of this this new 297 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 1: sort of aspirational bride who's just like she's still laid 298 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 1: back and you know, just it will happen the way 299 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 1: it'll happen. And honestly, the chill bride has has made 300 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 1: me as stressed out as the you know, overly intensive 301 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:31,439 Speaker 1: bride because it's like, well, but but I need to 302 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 1: care a little bit, but I don't want to care 303 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:37,960 Speaker 1: too much. I know, I know, oh that that was 304 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:40,800 Speaker 1: really starting to happen big time when I got married, 305 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:43,880 Speaker 1: So like, I feel you all that, and and still 306 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:46,280 Speaker 1: was in my head that was the stupid part, right, 307 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:48,560 Speaker 1: Like I was like fighting with myself like, well you 308 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 1: should be chill or maybe like the internet will find 309 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:55,120 Speaker 1: out or something like like who's going to find out? 310 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 1: So what was I even you know, arguing with myself about. 311 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:03,159 Speaker 1: But um, I think it's really true. Also sort of 312 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 1: one of our internal mantras, you know, within the staff 313 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:10,159 Speaker 1: that we try to um like really communicate to people 314 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:14,440 Speaker 1: online is that if you want to have a chill wedding, 315 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:21,720 Speaker 1: that does not necessarily equal chill about planning and and 316 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 1: and we don't mean like stress yourself out, spend a 317 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 1: million dollars, but for your actual wedding experience to be chill, 318 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 1: which I would argue is way more important than being 319 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:35,199 Speaker 1: like quote unquote the chill bride, um, you need to 320 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:39,119 Speaker 1: have it planned out right, And um, one of my 321 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 1: co workers was formerly a wedding planner, so she's been 322 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:45,479 Speaker 1: to just, you know, a zillion weddings, and she points 323 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 1: out that like the chill bride, like the really chill bride, 324 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 1: provides like the least possible chill wedding experience for her guests, 325 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:58,960 Speaker 1: because not that not the only brides are planning weddings, 326 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 1: but you know, the really chill couple, their wedding is 327 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 1: like a disorganized disaster. And I've been to those weddings 328 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:08,400 Speaker 1: where you're like, so, like what's happening next? Or are 329 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 1: we gonna eat? Or it's definitely been an hour since 330 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 1: the ceremony and it's like eight like because nothing's been playing. 331 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 1: So um, I think there's that balance. And god, it's 332 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:23,399 Speaker 1: just like the city is all of the in city 333 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:27,640 Speaker 1: is gender tropes about women, right, Like we can only 334 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 1: be one or the other. We can be Bridezilla or 335 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 1: we can be the child ride and like it's it's 336 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:34,199 Speaker 1: like the whole cool girl thing of like I'm the 337 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:37,199 Speaker 1: cool girl and I only care about things that boys 338 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:42,399 Speaker 1: care about. I'm just so cool and chill, like is 339 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:44,720 Speaker 1: that I don't know if that's a real thing that 340 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 1: a real human can can be. So um, I just 341 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:52,679 Speaker 1: feel like it's it's like one more, one more for 342 00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 1: for how there's a double standard. Yeah, Caroline and I 343 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 1: were just nodding emphatically to each other with your comparison 344 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 1: to a cool girl trope, because it's totally it's it's 345 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:07,159 Speaker 1: the bridal version of that. Yeptally it seems like it 346 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 1: doesn't exist in the real world, and you know what, 347 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:12,640 Speaker 1: it kind of does and and there's like a whole 348 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 1: marketing thing around it kind of does. But you need 349 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:21,399 Speaker 1: to be careful about differentiating people that are paying for 350 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:23,879 Speaker 1: their own weddings, are paying for their weddings along with 351 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:29,479 Speaker 1: their family of reasonable means, and people whose parents are 352 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 1: paying for their weddings because they have a whole lot 353 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 1: of money because there's a market for that, right especially 354 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:37,960 Speaker 1: in say New York, where a lot of the bridal 355 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 1: market is. And so it's like, yeah, you can be 356 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:44,480 Speaker 1: the chill ride if you're spending and no judgment right, 357 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:48,199 Speaker 1: Like sounds fun, But if you're spending a hundred thousand 358 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,480 Speaker 1: dollars of your parents money and and so you're not 359 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 1: even stressed about it being your money, Like, yeah, you 360 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:56,680 Speaker 1: can chill up because guess what, you just like pick 361 00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:59,639 Speaker 1: a dress and some flowers and show up because you 362 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 1: have a race planner. Um. And so I think that 363 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:06,800 Speaker 1: gets communicated to us for wedding media. It's like, look 364 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:10,720 Speaker 1: at this cool in the like chill bride. And now 365 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:12,560 Speaker 1: that I have a trained eye, I can often look 366 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 1: at those weddings and be like, oh, that wedding is 367 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:19,720 Speaker 1: two K. So we're like define chill. Well, what do 368 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:24,360 Speaker 1: you make of the unweddings trend because that is separate 369 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:28,399 Speaker 1: from the the chill bride um. So what about what 370 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:30,080 Speaker 1: about that? What do you think that says about our 371 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:33,520 Speaker 1: wedding culture? You know, there's a reason to do that, 372 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:35,480 Speaker 1: And I think there's really a reason to do that 373 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 1: in some cases. Um. You know, for example, if you 374 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 1: have a really intense family and planning a wedding with 375 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 1: them is just going to be terrible. Um, but you 376 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:48,639 Speaker 1: love them and want them to be there, you can 377 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 1: you know, maybe you it's up to you want to 378 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 1: like sort of plan a wedding on the slyly on 379 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 1: the sly and then be like, hey, we got married 380 00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:59,720 Speaker 1: you're mindaged me very though, Like if you have to 381 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:01,800 Speaker 1: kind think through like how your people are going to 382 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 1: react to that. Are they going to be like, oh, 383 00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:05,640 Speaker 1: this is magical or is your mom gonna like pull 384 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:08,959 Speaker 1: you aside later and wring your neck um and and 385 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 1: do you care? But yeah, I think you know, there's 386 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:15,919 Speaker 1: we've sort of had the rise of the like small 387 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 1: wedding and the wedding in the past few years. When 388 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,119 Speaker 1: I started to site, one of my stated goals was 389 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:25,879 Speaker 1: to like make elopements cool again. And and either we 390 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:30,199 Speaker 1: were really successful or everything changed, because now, like that 391 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:33,879 Speaker 1: statement seems so ridiculous. We get so many elopements submissions 392 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:36,199 Speaker 1: every month that we we have to turn most of 393 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 1: them down because we're like, well, we can't just run alopements. 394 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:42,760 Speaker 1: That's not helpful for everybody planning bigger weddings. So now 395 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:46,080 Speaker 1: it's like so incredibly popular to elope that, you know. 396 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,920 Speaker 1: So we've sort of like the pendulum swings, and that's 397 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,920 Speaker 1: where we are on the pendulum right now. Do you 398 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 1: notice any trends about who's eloping, isn't older couples, younger couples, 399 00:23:57,600 --> 00:23:59,880 Speaker 1: or a mix of both. I'm just I'm curious because 400 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:02,879 Speaker 1: I'm thirty two and unmarried, and a lot of my 401 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 1: girlfriends who've already been through the process, many of them 402 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 1: have not just one, but many have said, God, just 403 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 1: a lope when it's your turn. So I was wondering 404 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:13,240 Speaker 1: if this is a case of, like your girlfriends have 405 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 1: influenced you and you've seen the stress that they've gone through, 406 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:17,720 Speaker 1: or is it just a mix? Is it a grab bag? 407 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 1: I think it's funny. I never really thought of that 408 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 1: about that, um, But I think it's older couples. I mean, 409 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:27,400 Speaker 1: we've very rarely get a loans where you're like, oh, 410 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 1: they're twenty two. Um. Also because there's a different perception, right, 411 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:36,359 Speaker 1: Like if you are thirty five and you a lope, 412 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 1: people are like, oh, that's cool. If you aren't twenty 413 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:42,640 Speaker 1: two and you are lope, I think everybody's like, are 414 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:46,680 Speaker 1: you pregnant? Did you think this through? Like what are 415 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 1: you doing? Um? So I think you kind of have 416 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:53,640 Speaker 1: to like be old enough to feel like you are 417 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 1: in the right to not that you don't have the 418 00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:58,640 Speaker 1: right at any age, but like, I think that's probably 419 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 1: part of it psychological and the same like you're older, 420 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 1: you've been to a zillion weddings. Well, most people, actually 421 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 1: several people on staff, including me, like don't go to 422 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 1: a zillion weddings for whatever reason. But a lot of 423 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 1: people I hear in the world go to a zillion weddings. 424 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:17,200 Speaker 1: So if you've been to like fourteen weddings last year, 425 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 1: you may just be like, I'm I'm done done. Well, 426 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 1: you mentioned the patriarchal traditions of weddings and the highly 427 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,680 Speaker 1: gendered roles even just wrapped up with basic wedding planning. 428 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 1: So we wanted to talk to you about the concept 429 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:39,560 Speaker 1: of feminist weddings because this well I don't need to say, 430 00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:41,640 Speaker 1: because I mean, what do you what do you think 431 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:46,920 Speaker 1: about how those two combine. Well, I mean, first of all, 432 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 1: I am like the world's strongest proponent for like they 433 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:53,920 Speaker 1: do combine, because there is this, you know, this argument 434 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:58,840 Speaker 1: that like, weddings are built on patriarch traditions, so it's 435 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,480 Speaker 1: impossible to have a phone a wedding, and I'm kind 436 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:05,200 Speaker 1: of like, yeah, Also, the world is built on patriarchal 437 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:07,960 Speaker 1: arcal traditions and we have to like carry on and 438 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:11,400 Speaker 1: move forward. So, um, if we if we threw out 439 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:14,720 Speaker 1: everything that was based on patriarchal traditions, like how could 440 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 1: we even get out of bed in the morning? Um So, 441 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:19,600 Speaker 1: I just feel like you just have to be able 442 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,680 Speaker 1: to reclaim the stuff that you care about and um 443 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:25,720 Speaker 1: whether that's like and then decide you don't care about 444 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,359 Speaker 1: other stuff, right, Like I wear a makeup and that's 445 00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:30,960 Speaker 1: not don't wear that's a feminist choice, but like I'm 446 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 1: a feminist and I like makeup, so whatever. Um So, 447 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:37,000 Speaker 1: I think part of it is is that, right that like, 448 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 1: where am I going to make a feminist dance on 449 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,600 Speaker 1: my wedding? And where do I kind of just not 450 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:49,159 Speaker 1: care enough? Um? And because you can't make every feminist 451 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 1: dance ever ever, but you can't do it for weddings 452 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:58,520 Speaker 1: usually there's just sort of too much. Um So, I 453 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,520 Speaker 1: think it's just a process of being thoughtful and then 454 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,080 Speaker 1: I'm sure we'll talk more about this um when we 455 00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 1: talk about sort of relationships in general. But I also 456 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:13,680 Speaker 1: think it's a process of um fighting for what's important. Um. 457 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,960 Speaker 1: I mean I really think that, especially in in mixed 458 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:23,200 Speaker 1: gender partnerships, like um, dudes are only as feminist as 459 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:27,600 Speaker 1: they are required to be. I mean, you know, I 460 00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 1: married like a lovely feminist man and I still fight 461 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:35,720 Speaker 1: with them over feminist issues like every day o the week. So, um, 462 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,320 Speaker 1: I think I think there's a part of it's like 463 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:41,480 Speaker 1: feminist education for your partner being like nope, we're not 464 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,240 Speaker 1: going to do that and here's why. Um. So yeah, 465 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:46,960 Speaker 1: it's picking your battle. Like I was not gonna have 466 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,280 Speaker 1: my dad walked me down the aisle. That's but for 467 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:53,480 Speaker 1: some people that's like a really emotional important thing. Um, 468 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:55,639 Speaker 1: you know. But at the same time, we had a 469 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:59,240 Speaker 1: Jewish wedding and um, my husband stumped on the glasses 470 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:01,240 Speaker 1: and I didn't because we got we got down to 471 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:04,480 Speaker 1: the end of sort of decision making, and I finally 472 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,800 Speaker 1: was like I just I like, I have been having 473 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,879 Speaker 1: reoccurring nightmares, which is which is true that I stomped 474 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 1: on the glass and a shark goes through my shoe 475 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,560 Speaker 1: and like my foot bleeds really badly and I just 476 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 1: don't want to do it. Um, And my husband said like, 477 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:23,680 Speaker 1: I just really want to do it on my own. 478 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:25,439 Speaker 1: I don't want to do it with you, and I 479 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:28,200 Speaker 1: was like right. So we went to our canter and 480 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:30,840 Speaker 1: work in our really progressive synagogue and we're like, WHOA, 481 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:34,480 Speaker 1: what do we do though, because feminism and she she 482 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:38,320 Speaker 1: said he was feminism is a part also about deciding 483 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:40,920 Speaker 1: what works for each of you. And if what works 484 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,240 Speaker 1: for you is that he genuinely wants to stump on 485 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 1: the glass and you genuinely do not, then great, You've 486 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,920 Speaker 1: made the right two weeks for you. So that happens 487 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:52,440 Speaker 1: to sometimes. Oh that sounds so simple. Then, so a 488 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:56,880 Speaker 1: feminist wedding basically looks like a wedding that you planned 489 00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:02,720 Speaker 1: together based on what feels comfortable and right and authentic 490 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 1: and meaningful to you. Yeah, I think so. I mean 491 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 1: it's the same with decisions around the house, right, Like 492 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:15,160 Speaker 1: we pick our responsibilities in our household based on what 493 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,800 Speaker 1: we care about and are good at, and that means 494 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 1: my husband cooks, so that's gender and non traditional, but 495 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 1: I'm totally our social secretary and that's gender conforming. But 496 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:27,400 Speaker 1: that's just I'm good at it and I like it. 497 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 1: He's bad at it and he hates it. So that's 498 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 1: how we do it. Um. And I think it's sort 499 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 1: of the same thing with with the weddings that as 500 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:35,960 Speaker 1: long as you kind of look at each item and 501 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,960 Speaker 1: are like, what is right for us here? Um, then 502 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 1: you're gonna be fine. Yeah, my fiance and I keep 503 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 1: joking about how he's going to have a groom's march 504 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:50,560 Speaker 1: and I'll be waiting for him. There is you was 505 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,000 Speaker 1: wanting to feel a boat. So we were lucky that way. 506 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:55,720 Speaker 1: We was like we had all these the Gallaxharian things already, 507 00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 1: Like he walked down the aisle of his parents, and 508 00:29:57,600 --> 00:29:59,360 Speaker 1: I worked at the aisle of my parents, I know 509 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:03,720 Speaker 1: what you know, and speaking of like non non feminist 510 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:06,480 Speaker 1: things that I love, Like, I was really adamant about 511 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:08,920 Speaker 1: the fact that everyone would stand up when I walked 512 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:13,080 Speaker 1: down the aisle, and everyone did, and it's so like 513 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:16,880 Speaker 1: one of the like emotional moments of my life. So 514 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:20,360 Speaker 1: you know, whatever that worked for me. Do you see 515 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 1: any type of like feminist wedding marketing stuff trickling into 516 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:29,640 Speaker 1: the whole wedding industry or is that still sort of 517 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,360 Speaker 1: a fringe thing when it comes to marketing and planning 518 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:36,760 Speaker 1: just my stuff? I mean feel like I feel like 519 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:42,160 Speaker 1: I'm the I'm the guilty party here. Um, there's not 520 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:47,880 Speaker 1: I don't think god. I mean, feminism is becoming such 521 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:50,880 Speaker 1: a a buzzword, which you know has use up to 522 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:54,120 Speaker 1: a nouns, but I think is mostly up right, like 523 00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:59,080 Speaker 1: it's a good thing. Um, but the wedding industry lags 524 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 1: behind everything so badly, you guys. I mean like sometimes 525 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,800 Speaker 1: that people like such an easy mark to like work 526 00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 1: in the industry and try to make it better because 527 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:12,000 Speaker 1: you're just like it is legitimately so bad most of 528 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:15,800 Speaker 1: the time. Um. So, yeah, I haven't seen a lot 529 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:18,240 Speaker 1: of that, And like on one hand it might be 530 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 1: feel crashed, but like on the other hand, I might 531 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:24,040 Speaker 1: be like, well, look at that, that's a nice change. 532 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 1: So now I've mentioned the egalitarian wedding planning and ceremonies, 533 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:34,479 Speaker 1: and I just wanted to ask you a little bit 534 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:38,239 Speaker 1: more about the groom. Where is the groom in this 535 00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:40,520 Speaker 1: whole process. I mean, that's kind of the incredible thing 536 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:44,520 Speaker 1: with this massive life event, Like obviously the groom has 537 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:48,200 Speaker 1: the moment with the proposal. We're speaking like hetero terms, obviously, 538 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:52,240 Speaker 1: but then it's like everyone forgets about him until the 539 00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:57,200 Speaker 1: day of Um. So we have seen a real shift, 540 00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:03,960 Speaker 1: interestingly around that week gay marriage, which is weird, but 541 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:12,440 Speaker 1: at the first doma decision, but it started changing, Like 542 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:16,080 Speaker 1: when you talk to wedding photographers, it suddenly was like, oh, 543 00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:18,720 Speaker 1: grooms sort of the point of contact is often it's bride. 544 00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 1: So there was this sort of I mean obviously, right, 545 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 1: a huge cultural shift, um, but somehow it made up 546 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,400 Speaker 1: you know, fun So so we debunked that argument that 547 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:32,080 Speaker 1: gay marriages make all of our marriage marriage is weaker. 548 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:34,760 Speaker 1: Apparently they make all of our marriages more galitarian, which 549 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,560 Speaker 1: is amazing. Um, so we're seeing a little bit more 550 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 1: of it. But god, it's it's terrible. But there is 551 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:46,400 Speaker 1: the there's so many things to balance there. I think 552 00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:49,920 Speaker 1: it's important to remember who cares about what, right, because 553 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:54,800 Speaker 1: I would rate my husband over things like, um, but 554 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:59,680 Speaker 1: but I need you to pick flower colors, right and 555 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:03,280 Speaker 1: find He was like, here's the thing. I don't care 556 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:08,240 Speaker 1: at all, So if you make me pick, I'm just 557 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:12,240 Speaker 1: going to pick at random. Um. But it was like, 558 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:14,720 Speaker 1: but it's no, you have to be involved with every 559 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,880 Speaker 1: part of planning. Well no, right, Like people need to 560 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:19,960 Speaker 1: be involved in parts planning that they're interested in, and 561 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:21,800 Speaker 1: then you have to divide up the things that nobody's 562 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,680 Speaker 1: interested in amongst yourself, and you have to try to 563 00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:27,800 Speaker 1: balance like the actual amount of work. Right if if 564 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:29,760 Speaker 1: like he's interested in like sitting in a chair and 565 00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:33,360 Speaker 1: watching TV. Then that doesn't work out for you. UM. 566 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:37,240 Speaker 1: But the other there's sort of interesting thing that comes 567 00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:40,840 Speaker 1: up is because women are so conditioned to think about 568 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 1: weddings that often women are kind of a couple of 569 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:50,360 Speaker 1: steps ahead on the progressive scale with weddings, where by 570 00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:52,960 Speaker 1: the time you get married, you know, you're engaged, you've 571 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:56,200 Speaker 1: already moved past like I'm going to have a big 572 00:33:56,280 --> 00:34:01,000 Speaker 1: white you know, expensive whatever wet, and you've moved on 573 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:06,240 Speaker 1: to like I'm going to have a feminist, alternative wedding. UM. 574 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:09,160 Speaker 1: And your partner maybe has never thought about any of that, 575 00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:11,960 Speaker 1: because the amount of time they've spent thinking about weddings 576 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:15,279 Speaker 1: is like ten minutes once UM, And so they're like, 577 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:17,520 Speaker 1: I just whatever, I'm just signed up for this thing 578 00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:19,839 Speaker 1: I see on TV. UM. So we've seen that as 579 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:23,200 Speaker 1: a point of conflict a lot, where the rooms still 580 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:27,600 Speaker 1: want something really traditional and um, the bride again speaking 581 00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:31,840 Speaker 1: in hetero terms here, the bride um wants something less traditional. 582 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:34,040 Speaker 1: And I just think it it has to do with 583 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:36,600 Speaker 1: the amount of time that we have thought about it 584 00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:39,400 Speaker 1: over the course of our lives. So I'm really interested 585 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:43,799 Speaker 1: in hearing what the top wedding etiquette and planning questions 586 00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:46,920 Speaker 1: and conundrums are that you feeled at a practical wedding, 587 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:49,880 Speaker 1: like what are the things that people are dying to know? 588 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:53,480 Speaker 1: Most often, well, the least common question is what do 589 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:58,000 Speaker 1: I do about my friend who is making me buy address? 590 00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:03,200 Speaker 1: I saw that, Oh my gosh, and we researched it, right, 591 00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:07,040 Speaker 1: because when people sending questions, we usually do our due 592 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:09,919 Speaker 1: diligence and research like who they are and make sure 593 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:12,640 Speaker 1: that like this is a legit thing. Um, we don't 594 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:15,480 Speaker 1: publish their names, right, but like we do our like 595 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,399 Speaker 1: due diligence, fine disease, We're like, no, I think this 596 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:24,120 Speaker 1: is for real, So that's not super common. But um, 597 00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:29,279 Speaker 1: I think that our most common question is some variation 598 00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:34,880 Speaker 1: of do I have to pay attention to this opinion 599 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:39,520 Speaker 1: of X person that I love? Um? And the answer 600 00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:43,360 Speaker 1: is right, like only you know for sure, grasshopper, but 601 00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:48,120 Speaker 1: probably um. Not that you have to like do everything 602 00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:53,880 Speaker 1: that everyone you love wants, but you can't. Probably just 603 00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:58,759 Speaker 1: flow them off. UM. And we've started getting letters in 604 00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:02,680 Speaker 1: the past a year or so from mothers as the 605 00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:04,560 Speaker 1: site's sort of gotten a lot more well known. I 606 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:08,759 Speaker 1: think UM and I have to say that they are 607 00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:12,520 Speaker 1: the most heartbreaking letters that we get. Um, they're just 608 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:16,080 Speaker 1: oh God, Like I've cried when I've gotten them, especially 609 00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:20,000 Speaker 1: as a mom um, where it's just like I don't 610 00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:25,839 Speaker 1: understand and they won't tell me anything. And I just 611 00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:29,120 Speaker 1: asked about this one question and they called me invasive 612 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:31,960 Speaker 1: and I've been crying for like three weeks. But I 613 00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:33,759 Speaker 1: definitely don't want them to know that I've been crying 614 00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:38,439 Speaker 1: for three weeks and can you help explain what's going on? Um? So, 615 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:41,560 Speaker 1: you know, parents and loved ones get cast in this 616 00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:46,840 Speaker 1: sort of like bad guy role and the truth is 617 00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:50,640 Speaker 1: that you know, depends on your family relationship obviously, but 618 00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,480 Speaker 1: like if you have a good family relationship, your parents 619 00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:56,280 Speaker 1: have probably been thinking about your wedding a lot longer 620 00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:58,360 Speaker 1: than you have, or you know, even if it's not 621 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:01,440 Speaker 1: your wedding specifically, like you're changing your kids diapers and 622 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:03,399 Speaker 1: you're thinking about like I hope they have a happy life. 623 00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:06,200 Speaker 1: I hope they end up with a good partner. Um, 624 00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:10,040 Speaker 1: So do then have the to totally cut them out? Um? 625 00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:14,879 Speaker 1: I think is really painful for people. So I'm sure 626 00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:18,920 Speaker 1: that many times, UM, people playing their weddings who are 627 00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:22,000 Speaker 1: kind of losing their minds and like at that emotional 628 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:25,399 Speaker 1: breaking point because it can get very emotional. Who come 629 00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:27,960 Speaker 1: to you and say, oh, this is awful. I don't 630 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:30,040 Speaker 1: know what to do. What is your go to advice 631 00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:35,680 Speaker 1: to to calm calm, to cook, to calm nervous um 632 00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:39,120 Speaker 1: soon to be brides and grooms. Uh, you know, it's 633 00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:44,000 Speaker 1: it's hard because like people tell you things like, well, 634 00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:45,719 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, you'll be married, and 635 00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:50,040 Speaker 1: that is helpful, like the day before, right like that 636 00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:54,480 Speaker 1: it's really legitimately good advice the day before. Um, but 637 00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:57,440 Speaker 1: people were saying that to me two months out when 638 00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:00,360 Speaker 1: I was saying things like, uh, I we need to 639 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:02,239 Speaker 1: figure out a way to get the alcohol up to 640 00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:04,000 Speaker 1: the picnic site, and people would be like, at the 641 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:05,920 Speaker 1: end of the day, you'll be married, And I was 642 00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:10,799 Speaker 1: like that, I mean that you're definitely not gonna let 643 00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:15,880 Speaker 1: us use your car then, right, like that was not 644 00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:19,799 Speaker 1: a question I was asking you, Um, so I don't 645 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:21,400 Speaker 1: know at the end of the day you will be married. 646 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:27,920 Speaker 1: But um, I think it's important to remember that. It 647 00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:32,279 Speaker 1: feels really symbolic, but your wedding really is just this 648 00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:35,040 Speaker 1: party to celebrate something that you already have and that 649 00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:38,960 Speaker 1: you will continue to deepen over many years. And you know, 650 00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:42,920 Speaker 1: if things go wrong, it really doesn't matter in in 651 00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,799 Speaker 1: the scope of your wife. So it may matter in 652 00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:49,759 Speaker 1: the scope of this year or this month, but in 653 00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:51,839 Speaker 1: the scope of your life, you'll look back and be like, well, 654 00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:55,959 Speaker 1: that's a hilarious story. Hopefully. My mom jokes that every 655 00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:59,439 Speaker 1: wedding is supposed to have a story. Um, and we're 656 00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:02,320 Speaker 1: at a wedding on where the DJ started. He was 657 00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:07,640 Speaker 1: narrating everything that I did. She is now greeting table 658 00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:13,399 Speaker 1: twelve like all night long, and my mom goes, well, 659 00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:18,759 Speaker 1: at least she has her story now and a narrator, right, 660 00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:23,640 Speaker 1: DJ is I feel like it's like massive opportunity for 661 00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:33,839 Speaker 1: awkwardness with some of those DJs out there. So thank 662 00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:38,520 Speaker 1: you so much to Meg Keen, creator of a Practical 663 00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:42,960 Speaker 1: Wedding dot com And listeners. If you enjoyed hearing from Meg, 664 00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:46,719 Speaker 1: that's not all. There's more in the next episode. We're 665 00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:49,400 Speaker 1: going to talk about what happens after you get married 666 00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:55,279 Speaker 1: with a feminist marriage and being a feminist wife. There's 667 00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:58,000 Speaker 1: a lot more to learn. Yeah, and listeners, I can 668 00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:01,400 Speaker 1: promise you that even even I as an unengaged unmarried 669 00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:06,400 Speaker 1: lady found our conversation with Meg fascinating, so stay tuned, 670 00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:09,920 Speaker 1: and in the meantime, we want to hear from you, 671 00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:14,239 Speaker 1: dear listeners, about your wedding planning issues. Have you ever 672 00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:19,239 Speaker 1: felt any conflict between your feminist ideology and the prospect 673 00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:24,319 Speaker 1: of being engaged, of getting married and all of the 674 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:28,560 Speaker 1: money and all of the expectations, Because listen, I've been there, 675 00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:31,800 Speaker 1: I am there, actually, so commiserate with me. Mom Stuff 676 00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:34,560 Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot Com is our email address. 677 00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:36,920 Speaker 1: You can also tweet us at mom Stuff podcast or 678 00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:39,760 Speaker 1: messages on Facebook, and we've got a couple of messages 679 00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:47,680 Speaker 1: to share with you right now. So I've gotta let 680 00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:50,840 Speaker 1: her hear about our two parter on the history of abortion. 681 00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:53,439 Speaker 1: And this is from someone who would like to remain anonymous, 682 00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:55,839 Speaker 1: and she wrote, I love this show and was so 683 00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:58,640 Speaker 1: excited to see all talking about abortion. I was really 684 00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:01,319 Speaker 1: dismayed though, when you open episode with no one is 685 00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:05,399 Speaker 1: really pro abortion. That's not true, and it plays into 686 00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:08,319 Speaker 1: the weird language that gets used around abortion but not 687 00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:11,880 Speaker 1: other types of healthcare. To crib from the sentiment expressed 688 00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:15,400 Speaker 1: in the Salon article below, I'm pro abortion just like 689 00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:17,880 Speaker 1: I'm pro knee surgery. I think people should get the 690 00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:20,160 Speaker 1: medical care that they need, and I think that there 691 00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:22,520 Speaker 1: should be health care professionals who are trained to provide 692 00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:24,960 Speaker 1: it and facilities where it can be access safely and 693 00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:28,279 Speaker 1: without harassment. I understand that what you were saying is, 694 00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:30,560 Speaker 1: wouldn't it be great if the need for abortion went away? 695 00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:33,279 Speaker 1: But the fact is that pregnancy is complicated, and so 696 00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:35,520 Speaker 1: are the lives of people who can get pregnant. Abortion 697 00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:38,040 Speaker 1: will always be needed by someone somewhere, and again, we 698 00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:41,880 Speaker 1: just don't talk about other medical procedures this way. I 699 00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:43,480 Speaker 1: suppose it would be great if the need for heart 700 00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:45,600 Speaker 1: surgery went away, but I never dream of saying no 701 00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:49,120 Speaker 1: one as pro heart surgery. Again, I'm a huge fan. 702 00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:51,319 Speaker 1: I spread the Sminty Gospel whenever I get the chance, 703 00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:54,480 Speaker 1: and I'm really glad you're talking about this important topic 704 00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:57,480 Speaker 1: and listeners. I didn't want to note that I responded 705 00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:01,960 Speaker 1: to this email to clarify and also, you know, say, 706 00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:06,960 Speaker 1: I totally get what uh this listener meant by that, 707 00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:10,239 Speaker 1: and just to clarify what I had meant by known 708 00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:15,680 Speaker 1: as really pro abortion more thinking about the mechanics of 709 00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:20,480 Speaker 1: abortion as a surgery, as a counter to the hyper 710 00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:26,680 Speaker 1: conservative perception that pro choice women are just running out 711 00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:29,120 Speaker 1: to get an abortion every chance they can because we 712 00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:34,640 Speaker 1: just love this particular procedure so much. But this language 713 00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:37,239 Speaker 1: when we talk about abortion, obviously, is really important to 714 00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:39,520 Speaker 1: pay attention to. So thank you to this listener for 715 00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:42,279 Speaker 1: highlighting that I have a letter here from Ali, As 716 00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:44,359 Speaker 1: she says, thank you so much for all the work 717 00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:46,640 Speaker 1: that you do for Sminty. I started listening to your 718 00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:48,680 Speaker 1: podcast about six months ago, and it's helped me to 719 00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,600 Speaker 1: articulate my thoughts on the gender disparities I've noticed, but 720 00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:54,600 Speaker 1: I've never really known how to discuss. I love listening 721 00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:57,040 Speaker 1: to you talk about complex issues in such a straightforward, 722 00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:00,239 Speaker 1: accessible and fun way. Listening to you both from minds 723 00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:02,160 Speaker 1: me of conversations I have with my friends, and I 724 00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:04,640 Speaker 1: really look forward to Mondays and Wednesdays when the new 725 00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:07,680 Speaker 1: podcast are released. I never thought about writing to you 726 00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:10,120 Speaker 1: until your History of Abortion episode came out. I'm a 727 00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:13,520 Speaker 1: technology consultant at a large firm in d C. It's 728 00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:16,960 Speaker 1: my promotion year and my firm has an upper out policy. Basically, 729 00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:18,919 Speaker 1: if I don't get promoted this year, I should start 730 00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:21,719 Speaker 1: looking for a new job. As a woman in technology. 731 00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:24,600 Speaker 1: I'm very mindful of how people perceived me, so imagine 732 00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:26,120 Speaker 1: how I felt when I found out that I was 733 00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:29,600 Speaker 1: pregnant in November by my boyfriend of two years. While 734 00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:31,640 Speaker 1: we love each other and hope to get married one day, 735 00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:33,479 Speaker 1: we both agreed that this was not the right time 736 00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:36,560 Speaker 1: for a baby. I'm working crazy hours trying to get promoted, 737 00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:38,680 Speaker 1: and he travels three times a month for his job. 738 00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:42,120 Speaker 1: A baby would have completely derailed our lives. So I 739 00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:44,680 Speaker 1: made the extremely difficult choice to get an abortion. I 740 00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:46,759 Speaker 1: did it for all of the right reasons, yet I 741 00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:49,000 Speaker 1: still feel like there's a void in my heart. My 742 00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:51,120 Speaker 1: abortion was not an easy decision, but it was a 743 00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:54,000 Speaker 1: decision that I made for myself and my future family. 744 00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:56,880 Speaker 1: I really appreciate that you started the podcast with the 745 00:43:56,920 --> 00:44:00,520 Speaker 1: statement we support the right to choose women who use abortion. 746 00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:03,120 Speaker 1: Faced so much hostility that it's refreshing to hear a 747 00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:06,360 Speaker 1: compassion in turn into the conversation. Again, thank you so 748 00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:09,000 Speaker 1: much for all that you do. Your podcast have become 749 00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:11,279 Speaker 1: a staple in my life. Please keep up the good 750 00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:14,839 Speaker 1: work and continue to approach your subjects with respect and compassion. 751 00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:18,239 Speaker 1: Thank you, Ali, and thanks to everybody who's written into us. 752 00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:20,400 Speaker 1: Mom Stuff at how stuff works dot com is our 753 00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:23,040 Speaker 1: email address and for links all of our social media 754 00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:26,160 Speaker 1: as well as all of our videos, blogs and podcasts 755 00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:29,319 Speaker 1: with our sources. So you can learn more about Meg 756 00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:31,880 Speaker 1: Keene in a practical wedding, head on over to stuff 757 00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:38,960 Speaker 1: mom Never Told You dot com for more on this 758 00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:41,680 Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff works 759 00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:49,880 Speaker 1: dot com