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Speaker 1: Match for.

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Speaker 2: Details this summer, serve up the cookout classics Heinz Ketchup

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Speaker 3: It's very difficult to keep the line between the.

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Speaker 2: Past and the price.

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Speaker 4: You believe that someone out of the past can can

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Speaker 4: turn to take possession of a living being.

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Speaker 5: We may be through the past, but the past is

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Speaker 5: not through with us.

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Speaker 6: Welcome back to the next Picture Show a movie the

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Speaker 6: Week Podcast to a classic film and the way it

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Speaker 6: shaped our thoughts on a recent release.

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Speaker 7: I'm Keith Hipps here again.

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Speaker 8: With Genevieve Kaski, Scott Tobias, and Tasha Robinson.

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Speaker 6: In our last episode, we discussed City Lamet's Dog Day Afternoon,

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Speaker 6: a hostage drama inspired by a real life event. We'll

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Speaker 6: get back to Lamette's film, but first we'll discuss Gus

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Speaker 6: Van Santz dead Man's Wire, a hostage drama inspired by

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Speaker 6: a real life event, and the similarities don't end there.

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Speaker 6: On a February morning in nineteen seventy seven, Tony Critzis

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Speaker 6: walked into the downtown office of an Indianapolis loan company

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Speaker 6: and took mortgage brooker Richard Hall hostage crisis. Blamed Hall

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Speaker 6: and his father for his inability to pay his mortgage,

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Speaker 6: accusing them of a scheme to force him to default

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Speaker 6: so they could claim his land as their own. To

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Speaker 6: make his point, Critzis wired a shotgun to Hall's head

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Speaker 6: and took him back to his apartment, where he remained

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Speaker 6: his hostage for sixty three hours, a crisis that only

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Speaker 6: ended after Critzis was a lot to hold a televised

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Speaker 6: press conference. Bill scars Guard plays Critis in the film

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Speaker 6: Dacre Montgomery plays Hall and Cola Domingo, Carrie Alwis Mihala

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Speaker 6: and Dog Day Afternoon star Al Pacino wrapped out the cast.

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Speaker 7: We'll talk it over after the break.

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Speaker 3: This episode is brought to you by Redfinn. You're listening

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Speaker 3: to a podcast, which means you're probably multitasking, maybe even

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Speaker 3: at redfin dot com. Own the dream.

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Speaker 7: I'm not a rich man.

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Speaker 3: I'm a poor man, and that never bothered me. But

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Speaker 3: these people betrayed me.

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Speaker 10: These people were in and give him a taste of

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Speaker 10: the American dream and then spin right. I'm a man

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Speaker 10: that's fighting for everything that he owns, sir, and I'm

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Speaker 10: not going to.

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Speaker 6: Be intimidated or humiliated by anyone.

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Speaker 10: I want to written agreement, i want my debt forgiving,

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Speaker 10: I want an apology, and I want to walk out

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Speaker 10: of here.

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Speaker 7: A free man.

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Speaker 6: Okay, So this is a discuss, fan says first film

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Speaker 6: in eight years, it is a certainly a memorable story.

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Speaker 7: What everyone else think of this film?

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Speaker 5: I was somewhat disappointed by it. I think it's fine,

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Speaker 5: you know, Vancent coming back after eight your hiatus turns

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Speaker 5: out not to be quite as exciting or dynamic occasion

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Speaker 5: as I would have liked. This feels a little bit

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Speaker 5: workman like for him with with some graceto. It's not

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Speaker 5: it's not, He's not completely absent here as a filmmaker.

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Speaker 5: But I think, you know, I think it's all capably

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Speaker 5: told and interesting in certain ways, but I think it's

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Speaker 5: really hampered by the lead performance by Bill scars Garter

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Speaker 5: as an actor I really admire and have enjoyed, you know,

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Speaker 5: often as monsters or people who might be monsters. I'm

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Speaker 5: thinking of Barbarian or or you know, specifically or No

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Speaker 5: s Feratu, But here it seems completely miscast as somebody

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Speaker 5: who could plausibly be from the Midwest. So I think

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Speaker 5: that that's kind of where the problems with the film start.

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Speaker 5: But you know, I mean, I'm not too down on

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Speaker 5: the film, but I think it to me, it's kind

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Speaker 5: of it was kind of a mild letdown. I don't

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Speaker 5: know what the rest of you thought.

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Speaker 8: Before we get into what other people thought. I was

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Speaker 8: just checking the IMDb page and I'm seeing that Nicholas

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Speaker 8: Cage apparently was originally cast in that role. Do you

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Speaker 8: think that he would have been a better choice for

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Speaker 8: casting than Bill Scarr's guard.

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Speaker 6: One point, it was a Nicholas Cage Verner Hersag film,

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Speaker 6: And I don't know, it's almost like I almost don't

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Speaker 6: even want to speculate, because it's just a very different Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Almost, it is a very different films on what you're emphasizing.

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Speaker 5: But I think the film is situated so much, is

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Speaker 5: so much a Midwestern film that casting is conspicuous. I mean, Cage,

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Speaker 5: you know, it would not be the obvious choice either,

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Speaker 5: but I also think he can. You know, Cage could

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Speaker 5: bring anything to life, you know, And I think this

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Speaker 5: he could get a film up on its feet, and

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Speaker 5: I think it is a film that could could use

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Speaker 5: somebody to kind of get it up on its feet.

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Speaker 5: So at least maybe he might have accomplished that.

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Speaker 8: Well. I'm sure everybody is surprised by this, but I

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Speaker 8: totally disagree with Scott. I really dug this film. I

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Speaker 8: was not placing any particular emphasis on you know, Gus

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Speaker 8: van Sant has to earn his eight years away for me,

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Speaker 8: like this has to be worth all of the films

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Speaker 8: we could have gotten out of him this time. I

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Speaker 8: think those are your exact herds, and the recording will

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Speaker 8: hold this up. I really enjoyed this film a lot.

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Speaker 8: I enjoyed Bills Carr's guard's performance. I think I'm a

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Speaker 8: little tired of him playing like actual literal monsters and

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Speaker 8: him playing this character who does have kind of a

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Speaker 8: charisma and a charm to him when he's getting what

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Speaker 8: he wants, which is, you know, something we'll loop back

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Speaker 8: to in connections, but he's convincingly dangerous when he's not.

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Speaker 8: You know again, this is somebody who's very volatile, and

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Speaker 8: I think he plays that really well. I knew nothing

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Speaker 8: about this story going in which you know, meant I

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Speaker 8: wasn't anticipating any particular beats or any particular way it

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Speaker 8: was going. And of course it's a fictional film based

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Speaker 8: on a real event, so who knew if it was

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Speaker 8: going to stick with it anyway? But I found it,

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Speaker 8: you know, pretty tense while being very low stakes and

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Speaker 8: pretty absorbing, while just being a very strange story. You know,

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Speaker 8: spending a couple of days with a gun wired to

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Speaker 8: somebody's head is a strange choice. You can really feel

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Speaker 8: with diagram Montgomery's performance choices like what he's going through

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Speaker 8: is complicated and it has to be very internal. I

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Speaker 8: thought that was a really interesting performance as well. And

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Speaker 8: then you know, al Pacino shows up to eat some scenery,

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Speaker 8: so I like, what, what, what can you go wrong

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Speaker 8: with here? I I liked the workman likeness, but I

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Speaker 8: liked the small scale of it. I didn't want this

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Speaker 8: movie to be, you know, a custom kind of like

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Speaker 8: you know, flashy Danny Boyle kind of sensationalization of the

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Speaker 8: whole thing. I liked how kind of down to earth

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Speaker 8: and lived in and in the moment it felt.

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Speaker 10: Well, As is often the case when this happens, I

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Speaker 10: fall somewhere between Scott and Tasha's reactions. I did enjoy

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Speaker 10: this film. I think I lean definitely more positive than negative.

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Speaker 10: I kind of want to hear more about what Scott

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Speaker 10: sees as the quintessential midwesternness of this story that Bill

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Speaker 10: Scar's guard is failing to bring across. But we can

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Speaker 10: maybe get back to that, do any of these I

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Speaker 10: don't know. I guess like the Indiana ness of like

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Speaker 10: and the setting didn't feel especially central to the narrative

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Speaker 10: in a way that like I felt like I needed

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Speaker 10: the characters to reflect the setting in that way. But anyway,

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Speaker 10: I digress. I think this movie does maybe not benefit

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Speaker 10: from being watched in close proximity to dog Day Afternoon.

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Speaker 10: I watched it afterwards, and I think as a result,

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Speaker 10: it came across just more mannered and not having that

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Speaker 10: naturalistic flare that makes Doggedy Afternoon feel so unexpected and rich.

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Speaker 10: You know. The performances especially felt very performancy, you know,

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Speaker 10: and some of the filmmaking choices around the use of

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Speaker 10: news footage and archival footage later in the film, you know,

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Speaker 10: or just felt again very very mannered, very sort of

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Speaker 10: not instinctual. I guess in a way that kind of

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Speaker 10: kept me from really connecting to the film, which I

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Speaker 10: agree with you, Tasha. It's a very compelling narrative that

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Speaker 10: I didn't know very much about, and like seeing it

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Speaker 10: play out was definitely bing, But I think just sort

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Speaker 10: of on a filmmaking and performance level, it didn't really

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Speaker 10: rise above the level of like serviceable for me.

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Speaker 6: Is that the Fatal Flower podcast, though, is it kind

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Speaker 6: of like, I know it's not as good as the

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Speaker 6: Stone Cold Classic, you know, I think it's fine.

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Speaker 7: You know. I saw it at TIFF.

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Speaker 6: It was one of the films I was really looking

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Speaker 6: forward to at Tiff, and then I left it thinking

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Speaker 6: it's pretty good. It could have been better, you know.

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Speaker 6: It's it's funny because I one of my favorite aspects

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Speaker 6: of it is the way Daker montgomery is character is

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Speaker 6: like fears for his life was also deeply, deeply annoyed.

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Speaker 6: It's like, I'm going to be killed, I'm going to

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Speaker 6: die because of the most annoying person on earth who

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Speaker 6: will not stop talking, you know. But at the same time,

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Speaker 6: it's also kind of like I kind of share that

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Speaker 6: annoy It's after a certain point, it's like, yeah, all

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Speaker 6: right there his whole hostage choice sure is going on.

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Speaker 6: And one thing I really did not like on second

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Speaker 6: viewing when I want to rewatched it for the podcast

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Speaker 6: is the dream sequence, where like it briefly turns into

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Speaker 6: a horror movie and it's like, yeah, that's that's.

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Speaker 7: That's a bit too much, you know.

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Speaker 6: I think Scars Cards okay, though, I mean I think

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Speaker 6: I don't. I think I think the handiest performance is

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Speaker 6: Carrie Elle was doing Chris Christopherson as or like his

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Speaker 6: version of Chris Christopherson as the police detective. But uh

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Speaker 6: uh either, I mean I did one thing that no,

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Speaker 6: I'm sorry, sorry second hand obviously, I mean, you know,

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Speaker 6: that's the thing about Latter Day, and I'll get into

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Speaker 6: comparison to but thing I love abou Latter Day. Pettino's

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Speaker 6: like he can really be convinced he as a guy

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Speaker 6: who wants his breakfast brito cut into thirds, not in halves.

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Speaker 8: Come on now, I mean, I mean, in keeping with

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Speaker 8: you're Richard Hall clearly thinking I'm going to die at

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Speaker 8: the hands of the most annoying person of the planet.

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Speaker 8: I think there's also a fair bit of also, I'm

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Speaker 8: going to die because my dad is a jerky And

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Speaker 8: Patino's character gets to have like a kind of an

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Speaker 8: enviable role as just a guy who's so full of

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Speaker 8: himself in just such a believable way. You know, he

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Speaker 8: kind of gets to play a completely different flavor of

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Speaker 8: villain than Scarsguard is playing. But he's kind of slimier

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Speaker 8: in a way. You know, there's there's a sense that

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Speaker 8: Tony Kurtzitz is not mentally stable that he is and

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Speaker 8: if boy, if you watch the footage of him at

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Speaker 8: that press conference, that is heavily underlined, whereas Pacina's character

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Speaker 8: knows exactly what he's doing, and he knows exactly what

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Speaker 8: the consequences could be, and he just he cares more

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Speaker 8: about his own ego.

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Speaker 5: That's one of the things I liked about the movie

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Speaker 5: is that specific moment where where you're realize that Richard's

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Speaker 5: sort of between a rock and a hard place when

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Speaker 5: it comes to the negotiations between Crisis and his dad.

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Speaker 5: You know, who are not going to who are not

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Speaker 5: going to see IDEI and he's sort of stuck in

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Speaker 5: this horrible place in the middle where he sort of

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Speaker 5: hung out to dry. You know, his dad cares more

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Speaker 5: about being a businessman than being a father. So you know,

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Speaker 5: and I think you see in that performance by Montgomery

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Speaker 5: years of weariness or disappointment, the heaviness I guess of

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Speaker 5: being under his father's thumb and being kind of like,

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Speaker 5: you know, having to kind of carry that mantle and

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Speaker 5: now here he is, you know, stuck in the situation

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Speaker 5: paying for his sins in a way, one of My.

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Speaker 10: Favorite moments of the film is after that phone call

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Speaker 10: when Richard hangs up with his father and Tony just

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Speaker 10: goes Richard Richard Richard and like offers him a cigarette,

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Speaker 10: and it's sort of like this acknowledgement of Tony recognizing,

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Speaker 10: you know, how sort of messed up this relationship is,

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Speaker 10: and you know, just kind of the baggage that Richard

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Speaker 10: is carrying, and if the movie had left it there,

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Speaker 10: that would have been fine. But then like later on,

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Speaker 10: there's like sort of another discussion where Richard is like

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Speaker 10: sort of talking about like how difficult there his relationship

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Speaker 10: with his father, so like he recognizes he has privilege,

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Speaker 10: but you know, it hasn't been all sunshine and rainbows.

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Speaker 10: You heard the phone call, you know, and it just

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Speaker 10: like underlines it in a way that, you know, I

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Speaker 10: think is like maybe a little indicative of this movie's

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Speaker 10: lack of restraint at times when it comes to like

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Speaker 10: letting the narrative and characters present as they are and

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Speaker 10: us kind of read into them.

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Speaker 6: I also kind of wish, you know, I think Colbyn

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Speaker 6: Dimingo is really good as DJ that he he he globs, Yeah,

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Speaker 6: he's so good. But also I felt like that that

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Speaker 6: also kind of doesn't.

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Speaker 7: Ultimately end up going anywhere.

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Speaker 6: And the same with Mihala as as this young young

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Speaker 6: black reporter who sees this as a chance to get

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Speaker 6: off the fluffy news beat and then too our real story.

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Speaker 6: But that kind of just kind of tapers off. I mean,

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Speaker 6: there's these elements of the film that are there are

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Speaker 6: some of the strongest parts of the film are kind

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Speaker 6: of left just kind of hanging by the end of it.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, I certainly agree about Mahala. I think her character

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Speaker 8: just kind of reads like the she was cut entirely

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Speaker 8: from the last act in order to focus more on

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Speaker 8: Tony and Richard. But Coleman Domingo's character, Like again, I

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Speaker 8: don't know that I would have loved it if they'd

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Speaker 8: whipped up like a bigger, more significant role for him

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Speaker 8: than what was actually in there. Like I did think

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Speaker 8: it was interesting sort of watching him behind the scenes

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Speaker 8: and like watching him put on and take off his

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Speaker 8: public persona and watching the weight of understanding like how

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Speaker 8: much responsibility he's suddenly in the middle of. Like that

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Speaker 8: character could have so easily been like a fame seeker

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Speaker 8: who's just really excited to be at the center of

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Speaker 8: something that he can parlay into more listeners, and instead

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Speaker 8: you get the impression that he'd really just like to

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Speaker 8: go back to, you know, purring excitedly over ROBERTA. Flack

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Speaker 8: records on the air and not potentially responsible for a

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Speaker 8: man's life, but he takes up that responsibility, and you know,

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Speaker 8: he even says like, this is something I guess I

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Speaker 8: have to do. I think he's a really interesting character,

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Speaker 8: and maybe we just want more of a story arc

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Speaker 8: for him because we want to see more of him

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Speaker 8: because he's really interesting.

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Speaker 5: That's kind of the thing with the whole movie though,

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Speaker 5: is like it's kind of these elements and these characters,

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Speaker 5: these subplots, but it just feels so undernourished in every

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Speaker 5: possible regard. You know, you just you know, I mean,

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Speaker 5: in some cases are worse than others, but you're just

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Speaker 5: like you just wish like it just popped more on

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Speaker 5: all of these subplots than it does, you know, I mean,

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Speaker 5: you know, to say nothing of the of the main plot,

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Speaker 5: but it's just you know, and even like something like

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Speaker 5: the look of the FI, I feel like Van Santon

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Speaker 5: and his technicians have have gone you know, to pretty

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Speaker 5: great links to do kind of almost a documentary style recreation,

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Speaker 5: really scrupulous creation of this event that unfolded on television

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Speaker 5: and get all those angles right and get the look

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Speaker 5: of the film right. And yet it doesn't have that

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Speaker 5: lived in quality. You know again, it doesn't you know,

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Speaker 5: we're talking it's tough when we're talking about a film

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Speaker 5: like dog Dan for new But that's just it. It's

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Speaker 5: just like that, you know, the texture that you I

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Speaker 5: think you would want from a movie like this just

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Speaker 5: isn't there. It feels very on the surface.

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Speaker 10: So Scott, then I think I know the answer to this.

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Speaker 10: But how did you feel about the closing beat of

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Speaker 10: showing us the footage of their real life Tony?

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Speaker 7: Right?

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Speaker 5: Is that ever something that you want to see? Is

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Speaker 5: that ever any Like? It's almost like it's almost like

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Speaker 5: kind of like a it ends up being sort of

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Speaker 5: a way to brag or something. Yeah, but I don't

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Speaker 5: even know if it works on that respect.

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Speaker 10: I feel like it was included because it's like the

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Speaker 10: rare example where like the real life person is maybe

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Speaker 10: even wilder to watch than the performance of it, like

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Speaker 10: like the you know, or like that press conference was

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Speaker 10: apparently much more like rambling and crazy than even what

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Speaker 10: we see because you know, like what we see in

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Speaker 10: that archival clip is not part of what we see

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Speaker 10: in the movie. So it's almost like it was more.

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Speaker 5: Not guilty by reason of insanity than yeah, this version

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Speaker 5: of the version we see in the movie basically exactly.

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Speaker 10: But like I just I don't really get the logic

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Speaker 10: of how that like benefits or improves your your film

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Speaker 10: to to include that, So I don't know I've.

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Speaker 8: Graped about that in the past. But I also one

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Speaker 8: of the things I always find kind of fascinating in

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Speaker 8: it is just, you know, the people in this movie

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Speaker 8: are not, you know, gorgeous people. None of them are

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Speaker 8: very like polished movie star looking people for most part.

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Speaker 8: But then you see the real versions of people and

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Speaker 8: you're like, oh no, they these actors are much much

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Speaker 8: more attractive than these people were in real life. And

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Speaker 8: I don't know, it certainly motivated me to go watch

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Speaker 8: the entire press conference, which is available on YouTube, and

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Speaker 8: there's a lot of like interesting archival stuff also on YouTube.

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Speaker 8: One of the TV stations did a I think it

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Speaker 8: was like seventy Years on the Air or something like

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Speaker 8: that anniversary piece where they talk extensively about what went

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Speaker 8: into that live broadcast because they'd never done one before.

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Speaker 8: It was an era where that technology wasn't really in

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Speaker 8: place for it. They had to go like rush out

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Speaker 8: when Crisis demanded it as a condition for Hall's release.

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Speaker 8: They had to go out and buy a bunch of

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Speaker 8: I think it was fiber optic cables, which was not

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Speaker 8: like a technology much in use. It was extremely expensive

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Speaker 8: and they basically just had to invest heavily in like

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Speaker 8: upgrading their entire systems for this one. Con Like live broadcast,

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Speaker 8: it's fascinating stuff. So I kind of appreciated in this

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Speaker 8: one case that clip a footage because it pushed me

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Speaker 8: to go out and like watch a whole bunch more

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Speaker 8: real life stuff.

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Speaker 7: Candes this.

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Speaker 5: I don't know if this is something that was addressed.

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Speaker 5: I don't remember even being dressed in the film, but

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Speaker 5: maybe it wasn't real life like Chrisis's gripe. Was it legit?

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Speaker 6: It's unclear in the film. I don't know if there's

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Speaker 6: any you know, I'm ready like real life reporting that

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Speaker 6: says one way or the other.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, that's what I thought, But it would be interesting

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Speaker 5: to actually follow up on that to see whether he

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Speaker 5: was being delusional about the value of this property or

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Speaker 5: if things sort of unfolded exactly as he suspects that

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Speaker 5: they did. And I almost think that his gripe was

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Speaker 5: actually legitimate, but who knows, you know, I mean, He's.

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Speaker 6: What we get in the film is that is the

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Speaker 6: detail that the mortgage company went out of business a

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Speaker 6: few years later, which I think it's at least sort

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Speaker 6: of like I was supposed to like push you to

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Speaker 6: to think that maybe his gripe was legit, that maybe

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Speaker 6: these people weren't on the level, but who knows.

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Speaker 8: Oh, I didn't take it that way. I took it

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Speaker 8: as you know, they were now nationally known as possibly crooks,

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Speaker 8: which is what he wanted. And regardless of you know,

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Speaker 8: whether they were on the up and up, which you know,

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Speaker 8: spending any time whatsoever with Richard Harl's father makes you

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Speaker 8: think whether this guy is like a criminal or not.

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Speaker 8: He's certainly sleazy and selfish and somebody you maybe don't

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Speaker 8: want to be in business with. So you know, the

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Speaker 8: reputational hit might have had something to do with it.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't know.

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Speaker 8: It's again, watching footage of the real life critsis, it's

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Speaker 8: pretty obvious that he is a personality and that he's

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Speaker 8: the kind of person like he's very very erratic in

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Speaker 8: ways that you could put down to like undergoing a

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Speaker 8: mental health breakdown, or could just put down to a

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Speaker 8: very narcissistic personality. He's very pleased to be on television.

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Speaker 8: He's very pleased to think that all of these people

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Speaker 8: paying attention to him, But he shifts from thought to thought,

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Speaker 8: from second to second. He interrupts himself the business that

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Speaker 8: we see in the movie where he demands that Richard

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Speaker 8: Hall read his statement and then almost immediately is like, no,

395
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Speaker 8: they want to understand it. I'm going to read it,

396
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Speaker 8: and grabs it and then starts asking where his brother

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Speaker 8: is and then demands water. Like that's all directly from

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Speaker 8: the real press conference, but there's a lot more of it, so,

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Speaker 8: you know, you kind of get the impression that this

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Speaker 8: is somebody who was going to face the failure of

401
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Speaker 8: his businesses by assuming it was somebody else's fault, assuming

402
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Speaker 8: that there was like having a persecution complex. There had

403
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Speaker 8: to be a reason this all was happening, and it

404
00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:46,880
Speaker 8: had to be somebody else's fault. Watching the actual footage

405
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Speaker 8: of him at that event, I did not come away

406
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Speaker 8: with any sympathy for him. He's he's kind of scary,

407
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Speaker 8: you know, in the way of somebody that would wire

408
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Speaker 8: a gun to somebody's head and hold him hostage for days.

409
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Speaker 8: He is not right in the head.

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Speaker 6: If I'm not mistaken, and I don't believe this is

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Speaker 6: details in the film, but the real Tony curtsis and

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Speaker 6: I guess you can kind of assume this, But he

413
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:12,680
Speaker 6: did actually have experience with explosives. I believe he may

414
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Speaker 6: have better than military. So you have to admire the craftsmanship.

415
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Speaker 6: I mean, it doesn't go off, you know, it does

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Speaker 6: seem like it was it was. It was constructed solidly,

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Speaker 6: so there is that. It is in that sense, I

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Speaker 6: guess more commnently accomplished, a more competently accomplished crime than

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Speaker 6: the one in DoD Day Afternoon. Hey, what is that?

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Speaker 6: Is that a segue? I would say, you know, maybe

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Speaker 6: trying to move on to connections. We'll do that after

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Speaker 6: a short break.

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00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:51,360
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Speaker 7: Tony, what is this? This here, Dick is a dead

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Speaker 7: man's wire.

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Speaker 3: If you faint, stumble, or try to run there, it

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00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:32,280
Speaker 3: is there.

435
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:34,280
Speaker 7: It is. Blow your head.

436
00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 10: Off and listen, Tony, no one's seen us.

437
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:39,399
Speaker 8: Okay, you've made your point.

438
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 7: I'm just getting started. Now it's time for connections.

439
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:45,800
Speaker 6: When you bring these two films together and talk about

440
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:47,159
Speaker 6: all the things they have in common.

441
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:48,399
Speaker 7: And there's a lot.

442
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:51,879
Speaker 6: I mean, I mean, I don't think that the people

443
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:56,480
Speaker 6: who made Deadbands Wear are unfamiliar with the film Dog

444
00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:58,680
Speaker 6: Day Afternoon. But I guess I guess one thing I

445
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:02,440
Speaker 6: think obvious point of contrast, though it is. It's a

446
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:05,600
Speaker 6: one is a film made in the heart of the seventies,

447
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 6: a few years after the incident it picks. The other

448
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 6: is a film that has to recreate the seventies. How's

449
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:13,919
Speaker 6: it changed the way these stories play out or the

450
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 6: way these films hit, I guess is to use a

451
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 6: cool word, I.

452
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,480
Speaker 5: Almost think it becomes a greater challenge for dead Man's

453
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:27,199
Speaker 5: Wire to try to recreate not just the incident and

454
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:30,920
Speaker 5: what was available via news footage and kind of get

455
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:34,479
Speaker 5: that look right, but then also to have to you know,

456
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:38,679
Speaker 5: evoke you know, the sort of nondescript world of you know,

457
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:43,239
Speaker 5: late seventies Indianapolis, for whatever that is worth, you know,

458
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:45,920
Speaker 5: evoking it's a very it's a much harder task than

459
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 5: what was basically contemporary New York and in which which

460
00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:54,680
Speaker 5: is a city that in any era is going to

461
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 5: have a whole lot more character than Indianapolis. You know, sorry,

462
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,480
Speaker 5: people in Indianapolis. It's just it's just a fact. So

463
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:05,600
Speaker 5: so so it's a hard it's a it's kind of

464
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 5: a difficult thing.

465
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 6: Downtown Indianapolis has really kind of boomed back in the

466
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 6: last few years.

467
00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:11,399
Speaker 7: I gotta I gotta say, I.

468
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,920
Speaker 5: Remember saying there, fine, it's got like restaurants and bars.

469
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 5: I don't know what it is. There's anything like like

470
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:19,679
Speaker 5: it's not blowing your mind or anything, is it.

471
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:21,680
Speaker 6: I remember it from the eighties, like being there in

472
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 6: the eighties. It's just sort of sort of like you know,

473
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:27,040
Speaker 6: completely desolate, even more so than than the fairly emptied

474
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:29,200
Speaker 6: out downtown you see in this one, which is actually

475
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 6: a Louisville, Kentucky. But uh, but yeah, anyway, I'm entirely dismissed.

476
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:39,600
Speaker 5: I'm sorry, Indianapolis. It's not even a docu drum. It's

477
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 5: almost like a documentary like quality, especially with the exteriors,

478
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 5: because it's kind of reflecting you know, the look of say,

479
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:50,160
Speaker 5: of what you know, a local news broadcast might look

480
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:52,520
Speaker 5: like at the at the time, which is a little

481
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,640
Speaker 5: different than you know, trying to approach it as a

482
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:58,680
Speaker 5: conventional period piece or even unconventional period piece in terms

483
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 5: of giving you a little bit more texture and life,

484
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:03,680
Speaker 5: you know, than what you end up getting here.

485
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:07,159
Speaker 8: There's also just the the space involved. You know, you

486
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 8: get a lot of kind of like big picture exterior

487
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 8: spaces with Dog Day Afternoon. You get a lot of

488
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 8: neighborhood shots and crowd shots, and you know, because they

489
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:25,119
Speaker 8: didn't have to necessarily think about extensive set dressing, it

490
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:28,120
Speaker 8: just it feels very different from Dead Man's Wire, which

491
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:32,120
Speaker 8: spends a lot of time in claustrophobic interiors and very

492
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:36,439
Speaker 8: controlled spaces. You know, there's there's some exterior shots with

493
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:41,400
Speaker 8: some very mustard ye or topey looking cars that are

494
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 8: very wide and bland and might have wood panels on them,

495
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:50,359
Speaker 8: but mostly it's in very controlled spaces, Whereas there's something

496
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,959
Speaker 8: kind of uncontrolled and anarchic about a lot of the

497
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:56,440
Speaker 8: exterior work in Dog Day Afternoon.

498
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:59,680
Speaker 10: Dead Man's Wire is also like a little cloistered historically

499
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,360
Speaker 10: as well, Like we haven't I don't think mentioned yet

500
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 10: the Attica aspect of Dog Day Afternoon, but the Attica

501
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:10,680
Speaker 10: prison riot happened in close proximity to the events of

502
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 10: the film and the filming of the film, you know,

503
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 10: like within five years, you know, all of this happened,

504
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 10: and it feels very sort of central to a lot

505
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 10: of the film's ideas and certainly Sunny's approach to the situation,

506
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 10: Whereas there's no sort of like historical anchor like that

507
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 10: in Dead Man's Wire other than like the incident itself

508
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 10: that it is dramatizing. So it makes the films like

509
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 10: time period kind of feel more costume me because it

510
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,920
Speaker 10: is not really central to the narrative as it is

511
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,399
Speaker 10: in Dead Man's Wire. It's like it's just what people

512
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 10: are wearing and the music they're listening to and what

513
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 10: the cars look like, you know, and certainly not helped

514
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 10: by the fact that it was not filmed in Indianapolis

515
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,440
Speaker 10: and dog Da Afternoon was filmed in New York. So

516
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:04,440
Speaker 10: I think like just overall, both in terms of filmmaking

517
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:08,720
Speaker 10: and what the film acknowledges beyond the actual incident that

518
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:12,680
Speaker 10: it's dramatizing, dead Man's Wire just feels a lot more

519
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 10: put on an artificial.

520
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 5: But I think one interesting point of contrast between the

521
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,359
Speaker 5: two movies, you know, there's also kind of a connection,

522
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 5: is the way it all plays out as before the public,

523
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,440
Speaker 5: because you know, with Doctor after New you have this

524
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 5: really interesting dynamic in which in which you know it's

525
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 5: both a media spectacle and a public spectacle that where

526
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 5: you know you have and you kind of have to

527
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 5: imagine the media part. You see cameras, you know, encroaching

528
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 5: on the on the space, and you know there's obvious

529
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 5: news interest there, but there's there's a lot more to

530
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 5: the fact that there's the crowd that's surrounding this bank

531
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 5: is really actively engaged in the events as they unfold,

532
00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 5: you know, whereas in Dead Man's Wire, you know the

533
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 5: public aspect that is really limited to the time that

534
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:08,040
Speaker 5: it takes Critsis to get Richard back to his apartment,

535
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 5: and then once he's back to his apartment, then anything,

536
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 5: anything that the public knows is filtered through the media

537
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 5: and then ultimately you know, leading to you know, in

538
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 5: the radio and then this press conference. So it's a

539
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 5: different it's a very different kind of experience. I guess.

540
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 8: It certainly has a very different energy, although it goes

541
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 8: to some of the same places in terms of the

542
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 8: public supporting, you know, this this criminal endeavor in part

543
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 8: kind of because it feels like a holiday to see

544
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 8: somebody break the rules. There's just kind of a street

545
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 8: festival feeling to some of the exterior stuff in Dog

546
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 8: Day Afternoon and in Dead Man's Wire, there's a sort

547
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 8: of feeling that people are like picking up the story

548
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 8: and maybe because it's coming to them in such a

549
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 8: filtered way, mapping whatever they want to put on it

550
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 8: on it. You know, there's just this narrative of like,

551
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 8: here's a man of the people that's finally fighting back

552
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 8: against the big fat cats that hold us all down. Well,

553
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:15,400
Speaker 8: the big fat cats in this case are you know,

554
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 8: a mortgage broker and his son you know, it's it's

555
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 8: not like they're, you know, fighting against the lapd or something.

556
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 8: It's these two guys who made some money. So but

557
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 8: it's it's easy for people to create their own narratives

558
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 8: when they're outside the situation. What fascinates me in both

559
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 8: cases in terms of parallels is that one aspect of

560
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 8: that public response is both of these men get phone

561
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 8: calls from perverts, basically from trolls, from people who are

562
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 8: excited to insert themselves into the situation and try to

563
00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:00,280
Speaker 8: try to create chaos, try to you know, push the

564
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 8: person at the heart of it into some kind of incident.

565
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 8: Sonny and Dog day afternoon gets one call from somebody

566
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 8: who wants him to start shooting people, and somebody maybe

567
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 8: the same person that wants to know if he's doing

568
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 8: anything with those women pantly or leer, which he just

569
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 8: hands in the phone to the woman who start heavy breathing.

570
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 8: It's just such a great moment. But similarly, Tony gets

571
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 8: a phone call from somebody who wants him to shoot Richard,

572
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 8: not because he knows him or because he has any

573
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 8: stake in it, just it's like a couple of giggling

574
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:36,000
Speaker 8: maybe teenage teenagers.

575
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 10: Yeah. I watched the screener with subtitles and it specifically

576
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 10: says teenage boy teenage girl. Yeah.

577
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 8: See. I felt like it could be that, or it

578
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 8: could be like there's there's sort of a whiff of

579
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 8: like maybe college kids who've been drinking. But I feel

580
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 8: like in both cases, what you have is people who

581
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 8: know that they themselves are safe from the consequences of

582
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 8: anything that happens and just kind of have a blood

583
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 8: lust that they want to insert into the situation there.

584
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 8: They have no stakes, they're not involved, but they want

585
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 8: to feel important and powerful by causing chaos and death.

586
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 8: And in both cases, the person who is actually like

587
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 8: a gun wielding criminal threatening to murder somebody is just

588
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 8: kind of like ew, like, what are who are these?

589
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 8: Who are these sickos that are trying to insert themselves

590
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:30,480
Speaker 8: into my crime. It's a very similar response, and I

591
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 8: think darkly comedic.

592
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 6: In both cases, dare spoil the sectity of this crime committed?

593
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 8: There is you know, despite the fact that these are

594
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 8: both seventy stories, there is just a little bit of

595
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 8: Internet feel to the crowd response. In both cases, there's

596
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 8: just sort of a sense of like, yeah, you're gonna

597
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 8: have a really wide range of responses from you know,

598
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 8: the people cheering Sonny onto the people who are just

599
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 8: their to grab some money, to the guy who's like, hey,

600
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:07,240
Speaker 8: I'm having my fifteen minutes he feels like somebody would

601
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:09,719
Speaker 8: be an influencer today, like holding up his uh, his

602
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 8: phone and get footage of it all, to the people

603
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 8: who are smashing the windows on the bus at JFK

604
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 8: and screaming at him. Everybody's got an opinion about Tony

605
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 8: and what Tony's doing, and we get to see like

606
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 8: little flashes of some of that debate. There's just that

607
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 8: same sort of sense of like, once you become a

608
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 8: public story, the public is going to respond to you,

609
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 8: and there's not necessarily going to be there may be

610
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 8: like a crowd movement or a crowd swell in the moment,

611
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 8: but there's also not going to be a consensus because

612
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 8: everybody's got their own way of seeing that thing.

613
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 6: There's also those shots in Dog Day Afternoon where some

614
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 6: gay rights advocates have showed up and it looks on

615
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 6: their faces like like I'm not sure Howard supposed to

616
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 6: feel about this. You know, this may not be something

617
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 6: that cause we want to champion, but maybe it is

618
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 6: you know, it's yeah, it's hard. I mean, it's the

619
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 6: thing about these incidents, it's like, you know, the feeling

620
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:07,000
Speaker 6: front so high and everything that happened so fast. It's like,

621
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 6: you know, you need time to sort out, like what

622
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 6: forces are at play here and what actually happens.

623
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:15,840
Speaker 10: Both of these movies kind of focus on the same

624
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:21,920
Speaker 10: trifecta or like the intersection of crime, media and public spectacle,

625
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:24,480
Speaker 10: you know, And I you know, you said as much

626
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 10: he'd like. I I think it's very likely that the

627
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 10: makers of dead Man's Wire had Dog Day Afternoon on

628
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 10: the brain. But I'm amused by the fact that both

629
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 10: films kind of focus on the arrival in droves of

630
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 10: both press and law enforcement on the scene and then

631
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 10: eventually spectators as well, you know, and there's you know,

632
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 10: like these are very busy incidents, you know, with a

633
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 10: lot of people flocking around and a lot of competing interests.

634
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 10: And you know, as I said, I watch Dog Day

635
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 10: Afternoon part of a media studies class. I feel like

636
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:07,359
Speaker 10: dead Man's Wire would fit very neatly into that same curriculum.

637
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 10: You know, the ideas they share about like sort of

638
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 10: the tabloidification of crime and the demand for that in

639
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 10: the public, and the excitement of the public when it

640
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 10: comes to crime that clashes against the very real danger

641
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 10: of it. And both of these films also kind of

642
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 10: engage with the ineptness of law enforcement in different ways.

643
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 10: They're not totally inept, but you know, they are sort

644
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 10: of bumbling in their own ways at different stages of

645
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:43,360
Speaker 10: the of the incident and the way that that bumps

646
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:45,960
Speaker 10: up against both the people doing the crimes and the

647
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:50,640
Speaker 10: media and sort of everyone's overlapping frustrations and lack of

648
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 10: communication with each other. It's all just kind of digging

649
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:57,960
Speaker 10: into the same mess, you know, of these three elements

650
00:35:57,960 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 10: crashing into each other.

651
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 6: I think point of contrast is you can say that

652
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:06,760
Speaker 6: the law enforcement, ultimately the FBI do end the hostage

653
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:10,759
Speaker 6: situation in Dog Day Afternoon, albeit in a really you know,

654
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 6: Graham way, whereas in Dead Man's Wire it really is

655
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:17,760
Speaker 6: Tony negotiating his own exit. In this like, there's really

656
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 6: nothing that's apart from pressure. There's really nothing that the

657
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 6: law enforcement of forces due to end the situation, even

658
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 6: like you know, to the point of obviously this is

659
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 6: not a situation they've prepared for. But the idea of

660
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 6: like walking into his apartment before he gets there, not

661
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 6: even thinking it might be wired to blow. Whereas I

662
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:39,799
Speaker 6: think now, with with decades of more experience that you know,

663
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:42,920
Speaker 6: I think even a town where this doesn't happen very often,

664
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:45,319
Speaker 6: and I guess there are really many talents where it

665
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:48,799
Speaker 6: does happen a lot, but even the police officers at

666
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:52,719
Speaker 6: a small city like Indianapolis would know better than to

667
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,520
Speaker 6: try to, like just bust into a crazy person's apartment.

668
00:36:56,000 --> 00:37:00,120
Speaker 8: There's also just a like leaving side the competence or

669
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:04,920
Speaker 8: lack thereof, of the law enforcement agents. Like I'm not

670
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 8: saying that we should negotiate with terrorists. I'm not saying

671
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:10,399
Speaker 8: we should have any sympathy for either of these men,

672
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,280
Speaker 8: but it is interesting that both of these stories parallel

673
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 8: each other in terms of law enforcement promising them a

674
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 8: whole lot of things that they are naive enough to

675
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:23,759
Speaker 8: believe they're going to be able to get away with,

676
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:28,360
Speaker 8: like promising them whatever it is they want, and you know,

677
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:32,479
Speaker 8: giving them certain things as concessions while scheming the entire

678
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 8: time to take them down, which also brings us to

679
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 8: the parallel of these both being kind of very protracted

680
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:43,680
Speaker 8: and in some cases slow moving standoffs that come to

681
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 8: extremely abrupt endings when the law enforcement actually makes its move.

682
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:54,400
Speaker 8: But yeah, all of the stuff that Tony is given

683
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:59,720
Speaker 8: along the way, and how it culminates in the reveal

684
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:01,839
Speaker 8: that it was all faked, you know, just that that

685
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 8: moment he is so surprised and it feels so betrayed

686
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 8: upon being arrested.

687
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:10,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean that. I think that's that you made

688
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:12,720
Speaker 5: the point I was going to make about about how

689
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:17,360
Speaker 5: how Crisis and Sunny negotiate deals that are one hundred

690
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 5: percent not going to be honored and they should know

691
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:22,959
Speaker 5: that that that that those deals are just impossible, Which

692
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 5: brings me to kind of another piece of this, which

693
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:28,600
Speaker 5: is which is they both movies are kind of a

694
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:32,239
Speaker 5: subgenre of crime film that I particularly love, which is

695
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:36,280
Speaker 5: kind of amateur hour crime movies where you have criminal

696
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 5: schemes that that immediately you know, go off the track

697
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 5: because you have because the people committing them are not

698
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:44,279
Speaker 5: good at it, don't know how to do it, haven't

699
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 5: really planned it out properly. I happen to be watching

700
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 5: I happen to show my youngest Fargo earlier in the

701
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:51,880
Speaker 5: week just because of your amateur hour and it's just

702
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 5: sort of like, well, the whole scheme with the car,

703
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 5: you know, like that that's like just just getting the

704
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:00,640
Speaker 5: car off the lot, just that part of that plan

705
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 5: that William may see, you know, hatches of that movie

706
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 5: that undoes the whole thing before everything else undoes the

707
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:09,759
Speaker 5: whole thing. It's so fascinating to kind of watch all

708
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:13,359
Speaker 5: that unfold about h these guys who don't really have

709
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 5: that good of a plan, have a plan, but not

710
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 5: not an air tight plan, don't have really the experience

711
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 5: or the temperament to try to to try to carry

712
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 5: out the plan that they do have, and then to

713
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:26,399
Speaker 5: see all of these things go awry and when those

714
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:28,760
Speaker 5: things go awry. What makes this sort of sub genre

715
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 5: so interesting is when things go right, it's it's it's

716
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 5: funny and also humanizing, because you know, when you see

717
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:38,760
Speaker 5: you know, professionals going going about doing a professional job,

718
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:41,239
Speaker 5: it's a different feeling than than you know, what it

719
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 5: reveals about the vulnerabilities. You know, in blind spots of

720
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:49,319
Speaker 5: characters who you know are not criminals by nature and

721
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:51,799
Speaker 5: who have who have been pushed or have pushed themselves

722
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:53,839
Speaker 5: to carry out this drastic plan of.

723
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:56,080
Speaker 10: Action is this swear we get to talk about the

724
00:39:56,120 --> 00:40:02,400
Speaker 10: long box because I'm waiting to bring up the long box.

725
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 10: And in both of these films, which I think is

726
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:09,799
Speaker 10: a very clear and obvious homage on Dead Man's we.

727
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:12,239
Speaker 5: Said just we have just talked about Paccino being the thing, okay,

728
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:12,839
Speaker 5: And I mean.

729
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 10: The movies start very similarly because dead Man's Wire also

730
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 10: kind of begins with our hostage taker listening to the radio.

731
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 10: Uh you know this in this case it's Coleman Domingo's broadcast,

732
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 10: but not Amorna. But you know, the the actual openings

733
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 10: are very similar, again going back to the the long

734
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 10: box that they both carry into the place that they

735
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:37,359
Speaker 10: are very clearly abound to hold up with what's in

736
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:40,279
Speaker 10: that long box. And I don't know why anyone ever

737
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:44,760
Speaker 10: thought this this was a stealth strategy, but to actually

738
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 10: tie it to this connection of you know.

739
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:53,839
Speaker 5: It, I know exactly, but you.

740
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 10: Know, I would say, in in Tony's defense, I think

741
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:03,319
Speaker 10: his uh he has put maybe more thought and you know,

742
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 10: skill into his plan then Sonny does. I think the

743
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:12,360
Speaker 10: really totally agree that like Sonny, he doesn't have the

744
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:14,640
Speaker 10: temperament to pull it off, but I think it does

745
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:17,480
Speaker 10: more or less go off as he planned it too,

746
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 10: with the exception of was he intending to take mL Yeah, yeah,

747
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:24,799
Speaker 10: he arrived intending to meet with him and presumably take

748
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:27,680
Speaker 10: him hostage, and ended up taking his son instead.

749
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:29,959
Speaker 6: So I think like he also broke the he broke

750
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 6: off in his car.

751
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:33,960
Speaker 10: Right, yeah, yeah, so like some some things went wrong,

752
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 10: but you know, he wasn't improvising the way that Sonny

753
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 10: and so end up doing for for the most part.

754
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:43,719
Speaker 10: And I again, I think it all comes back to

755
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:46,880
Speaker 10: the Long Box and specifically the image of Sonny just

756
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 10: tearing into that thing like a maniac like.

757
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 8: And getting tangled up, yeah, in just a really hilarious way,

758
00:41:56,280 --> 00:42:01,239
Speaker 8: whereas Tony has taken the time to eat a blueprint

759
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:03,720
Speaker 8: which is also in the Long Box with the gun

760
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 8: of a picture of a gun with a wire on it,

761
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:10,880
Speaker 8: which you know, as any architect knows, before you attach

762
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:13,120
Speaker 8: a piece of wire to a gun, you've got to

763
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:17,480
Speaker 8: very carefully lay out the blueprints for that invention exactly.

764
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 10: So yeah, I mean, like Tony definitely has a little

765
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:27,320
Speaker 10: more thought put into pulling this off. But I also

766
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:29,920
Speaker 10: just got to call out the image of in Dogedy

767
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 10: Afternoon of Sunny blacking out the security cameras that have

768
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 10: presumably already been filmed for quite some time, and just

769
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 10: like jumping to try and reach them. And it's a

770
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:47,880
Speaker 10: very comical moment. But yeah, the actual robbery attempt in

771
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:53,319
Speaker 10: Dog Day Afternoon is just comically inept, whereas in Dead

772
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:56,239
Speaker 10: Man's Wire, I think just like a few things go

773
00:42:56,400 --> 00:43:00,160
Speaker 10: wrong and Tony has to improvise in the moment.

774
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 8: And the things that go wrong aren't his fault. You know,

775
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:05,239
Speaker 8: he actually had an appointment with mL. He had ever

776
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 8: reason to believe EML was going to be there. EML

777
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:09,600
Speaker 8: just blew him off because he didn't want to deal

778
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:12,240
Speaker 8: with him, and you know, went to Florida to demand

779
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 8: burritos cut into three pieces.

780
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:17,400
Speaker 6: And also served a particular way on particular days. I

781
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:19,479
Speaker 6: forget all the details, but oh.

782
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:22,479
Speaker 8: They is supposed to be vegetarian on Tuesdays. You'll find

783
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:25,360
Speaker 8: that's right. That's right, because you know, this is something

784
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 8: that any server at any place that you're staying should

785
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:32,719
Speaker 8: remember about you personally, which actually brings me to a

786
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:34,640
Speaker 8: point that I wanted to bring up. We talked a

787
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:39,880
Speaker 8: bit about Sonny's selfishness in his relationships, his kind of

788
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:43,319
Speaker 8: inability to come to grips with what other people want,

789
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:45,280
Speaker 8: or the fact that what other people want is important

790
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:49,879
Speaker 8: even in their relationships with him. Both of these men

791
00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:52,719
Speaker 8: are very charismatic when they want to be. You know,

792
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:58,040
Speaker 8: both of these men kind of have connection points with

793
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 8: their victims where they sit and chat with them, where

794
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:05,360
Speaker 8: they seem to connect with them on an emotional level

795
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:10,239
Speaker 8: in quiet moments. But they're also we'll come back to

796
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:14,239
Speaker 8: the Scott's word volatile again. They're also both very unpredictable,

797
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:16,440
Speaker 8: and part of that comes from the fact that they

798
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:20,480
Speaker 8: are both narcissists. They think that somebody owes them something.

799
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:23,520
Speaker 8: They think that, you know, the world has put them

800
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:26,920
Speaker 8: down in ways that they didn't deserve, and that they

801
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:30,279
Speaker 8: have every right to fight back against it by you know,

802
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:31,760
Speaker 8: stealing things and harming people.

803
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:34,080
Speaker 6: They also think things like, you know what, it's fascinating

804
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:36,759
Speaker 6: the fact that I drink my milk with ice in it.

805
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:39,400
Speaker 6: Let me talk to you about that for two minutes straight.

806
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:44,239
Speaker 8: There's that and you know, just you know, Tony's feeling

807
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:47,840
Speaker 8: that whatever flits through his head is important, and you know,

808
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 8: Sonny's equivalent for me is just the moment where Mulvany

809
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:57,200
Speaker 8: kind of calls him out on handling things badly, and

810
00:44:57,239 --> 00:44:59,480
Speaker 8: he blows up at him. He's like, you know, I'm

811
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 8: I'm doing all the work here. I'm doing all of

812
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:05,400
Speaker 8: these hard and difficult things. I'm the only one like

813
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:08,719
Speaker 8: making decisions and responding to things. I'm having such a

814
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:12,239
Speaker 8: hard time here. And he's expecting sympathy for somebody that

815
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:15,520
Speaker 8: he's holding a gunpoint. You know, he's complaining to him

816
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:20,879
Speaker 8: about how hard his life is. Sunnies because he has

817
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:23,800
Speaker 8: to respond to things like the cops wanting to shoot

818
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:27,680
Speaker 8: him for the crime he's busy committing. You know, he's

819
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:32,600
Speaker 8: holding mulvaney hostage, and he thinks it's unfair that Mulvaney

820
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:36,520
Speaker 8: should have any expectations of him. Yeah, both of these men,

821
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:42,520
Speaker 8: I think very similar in terms of narcissistic personality that

822
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:46,040
Speaker 8: kind of expresses itselfself through a certain amount of like

823
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:52,960
Speaker 8: everybody owes me, you specifically, my hostages owe me. It

824
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:55,839
Speaker 8: is unfair that I am so put upon and if

825
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:58,080
Speaker 8: other people have to suffer as a result, well, that's

826
00:45:58,080 --> 00:45:58,720
Speaker 8: not my fault.

827
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:02,160
Speaker 10: There's also sort of of a corollary idea in both

828
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:06,440
Speaker 10: films about providing for others and what that says about

829
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:10,359
Speaker 10: you as a person. And I was really struck by

830
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:16,560
Speaker 10: the conversation between EML and Tony where EML is asking him, like,

831
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:19,239
Speaker 10: you know, what family do you have? You know, who

832
00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:22,720
Speaker 10: are you providing for? And Tony, you know, has aligned

833
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:25,800
Speaker 10: my businesses are my children, which he says a couple times,

834
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 10: I think, and EML says, a man with no mouths

835
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:31,439
Speaker 10: to feed other than his own is no man at all.

836
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:36,399
Speaker 10: And that just made me think again of Sonny's sort

837
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:41,560
Speaker 10: of compulsion to save and provide for the people around him,

838
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:45,960
Speaker 10: and that being an impulse driven by narcissism to a

839
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:50,800
Speaker 10: certain extent, less about what the other person needs and wants,

840
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:55,239
Speaker 10: and more about what someone's ability to provide says about them,

841
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:58,280
Speaker 10: you know. And obviously it's I'm el saying this, not Tony,

842
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:01,200
Speaker 10: like the characters aren't. But it's Albat, you know, in

843
00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:03,480
Speaker 10: both the cases it's a man, So I guess it

844
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:04,160
Speaker 10: is a connection.

845
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:08,640
Speaker 8: Yeah, that quote about a man with the mouse defeated

846
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 8: but his own is no man at all, is you know?

847
00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:16,279
Speaker 8: He so has Tony's number in that moment. It's such

848
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:22,480
Speaker 8: a savage insight into how what he's doing is essentially selfish,

849
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:25,440
Speaker 8: and he doesn't even have the Jean Valjean excuse of

850
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:28,200
Speaker 8: you know, a child was starving and I stole bread

851
00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 8: for them. It's I thought there was going to be

852
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 8: a big profit in this and there wasn't, and it's

853
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:38,319
Speaker 8: not fair. But that said, this accusation of you have

854
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:41,000
Speaker 8: no dependence and therefore you're not a man is coming

855
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:43,880
Speaker 8: from a man who is literally willing to let his

856
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:46,919
Speaker 8: son be shot to death rather than apologize.

857
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:48,720
Speaker 5: That's just good business, Tasha.

858
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:51,160
Speaker 8: I mean, you know there, you're going to be able

859
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 8: to get another president for your mortgage firm, but you're

860
00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:57,719
Speaker 8: never going to be able to take back having said

861
00:47:57,719 --> 00:48:02,440
Speaker 8: I'm sorry. Can we just mention the fact, speaking of

862
00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:07,160
Speaker 8: like all of this narcissism, both of these men are

863
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:10,840
Speaker 8: so delighted to be the center of attention. You know,

864
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:15,960
Speaker 8: you get a sensation that, regardless of everything going wrong

865
00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 8: for them, or everything that has previously gone wrong that's

866
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 8: brought them to this point, both of them experience just

867
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:27,040
Speaker 8: a real giddy thrill at having everybody kowtow to them,

868
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:29,640
Speaker 8: pay attention to them. The way Sonny lights up when

869
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:34,680
Speaker 8: he's first cheered the way Tony responds to being at

870
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:38,440
Speaker 8: that press conference with everybody crowded around him. It's very

871
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:41,800
Speaker 8: similar in both ways, and it's kind of it's almost

872
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:47,440
Speaker 8: charmingly boyish how excited they both are to feel heard

873
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:50,879
Speaker 8: and feel like the center of attention and feel supported

874
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:54,520
Speaker 8: and approved of, to feel like they have a fandom.

875
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:57,160
Speaker 8: But the fact that in both cases it's going to

876
00:48:57,200 --> 00:49:02,680
Speaker 8: be very short lived and very very divided and end

877
00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:06,560
Speaker 8: in a bad place is almost beside the point. There's

878
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:10,160
Speaker 8: just sort of that inherent sense of hey, the people

879
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:15,400
Speaker 8: love me from both of them being almost almost taking

880
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:18,960
Speaker 8: over to a point where it's more the point for

881
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:22,000
Speaker 8: them than the thing they were originally committing the crime for.

882
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:23,920
Speaker 5: I mean, and why not why wouldn't why wouldn't the

883
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 5: public be be on their side in a way, because

884
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:29,680
Speaker 5: I mean, when you really think about who who's on

885
00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:32,279
Speaker 5: what side? Is the general public going to feel for

886
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:36,879
Speaker 5: a bank or you know, a fat cat mortgage guy

887
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:40,960
Speaker 5: over over somebody who's out there, you know, trying to

888
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:44,400
Speaker 5: take some sort of dramatic action against them. There's almost

889
00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:47,160
Speaker 5: that kind of Luigi Manngioni quality to the whole thing

890
00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:50,160
Speaker 5: of just like you can have this kind of popular

891
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:53,120
Speaker 5: public hero, you know, who's actually not out of law.

892
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:55,479
Speaker 8: Yeah, But wouldn't that hold a little more water if

893
00:49:55,640 --> 00:50:00,120
Speaker 8: both of them weren't committing specifically the crime of taking hostage,

894
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:03,720
Speaker 8: if they were just like, hold up an under siege,

895
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:06,200
Speaker 8: that would be one thing. But I think both of

896
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:09,160
Speaker 8: these movies do a really good job of humanizing the hostage.

897
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:09,760
Speaker 7: And sure.

898
00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:14,440
Speaker 5: That's kind of, you know, at least kind of accounts

899
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:18,520
Speaker 5: for that initial excitement of like, oh, I'm being understood,

900
00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:21,320
Speaker 5: I mean listened to. You know, I've got people's attention.

901
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:23,360
Speaker 5: You know, people are hearing me out. I mean, I

902
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:26,319
Speaker 5: think that's part a lot of what Chrisis especially is

903
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:29,120
Speaker 5: trying to do. Just like I'm like you guys, I'm

904
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:31,360
Speaker 5: getting ripped off. The man is ripping me off, you know.

905
00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:34,319
Speaker 5: And you've had the experience of working every every kind

906
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:37,920
Speaker 5: of job like me and never catching a break. And

907
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:40,160
Speaker 5: now that now I had this chance of catching my

908
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:42,160
Speaker 5: big break, and it was it had the rug taken

909
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:44,200
Speaker 5: out from under me. And it's like, who can't kind

910
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:47,520
Speaker 5: of identify with that, you know, more than identifying with

911
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:52,840
Speaker 5: a guy who you know cuts his burrito in three Agreed?

912
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:56,520
Speaker 8: But another aspect of that that I think is pretty

913
00:50:56,640 --> 00:50:59,120
Speaker 8: front and center in an interesting way in both movies

914
00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:03,840
Speaker 8: is that you can pretty clearly and immediately see how

915
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:07,920
Speaker 8: these spectacle events are immediately and this takes me back

916
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:11,719
Speaker 8: to the Internet comparison as well, are immediately being seen

917
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:14,680
Speaker 8: by various people, just like, how can I exploit this,

918
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:17,040
Speaker 8: How can I get famous from this? How can I

919
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:22,279
Speaker 8: get a better job, more attention for myself, other people's approval,

920
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:25,799
Speaker 8: Just how can I spin this in a way that

921
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:29,520
Speaker 8: profits me? And the media gets more of a face

922
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:34,520
Speaker 8: in Dead Man's Wire, whereas it's just kind of a

923
00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:37,680
Speaker 8: blob of people with cameras who keep kind of like

924
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:41,960
Speaker 8: crowding into the scene, but you know, they've got a

925
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:44,719
Speaker 8: story that they know people are gonna want. I feel

926
00:51:44,760 --> 00:51:47,719
Speaker 8: like one of the reasons Coleman Domngo's character is so

927
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:50,120
Speaker 8: appealing and interesting is he's one of the very few

928
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:52,719
Speaker 8: that doesn't respond that way. But you kind of get

929
00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:55,799
Speaker 8: the impression that some of the cops, some of the

930
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:59,080
Speaker 8: more trigger happy cops in both of these movies that

931
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:02,239
Speaker 8: keep pulling out their guns and keep exacerbating the situation,

932
00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:04,880
Speaker 8: want to be the guy that takes down the outlaw.

933
00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:07,000
Speaker 8: You know, want to be the guy who takes control

934
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:10,480
Speaker 8: of the situation, and the cops in charge want to

935
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:13,200
Speaker 8: make sure that things go smoothly and that they don't

936
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:16,799
Speaker 8: lose their job as a result. What really struck me,

937
00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:19,759
Speaker 8: and this again is taken directly from real life, is

938
00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:26,120
Speaker 8: in Tony's live broadcast, he's standing there with a loaded gun,

939
00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:29,520
Speaker 8: like strapped to the back of a guy's skull, and

940
00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:32,840
Speaker 8: there are so many people crowded around him, crowded behind

941
00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:36,280
Speaker 8: him and bumped up against him, all kind of trying

942
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:39,680
Speaker 8: to be in the camera. All of these you know,

943
00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:44,560
Speaker 8: cops and agents and people who have been involved in

944
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:47,520
Speaker 8: the situation in some way, all just kind of trying

945
00:52:47,560 --> 00:52:52,200
Speaker 8: to be on camera, possibly for the moment where this

946
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:56,879
Speaker 8: hostage taker murders somebody. It's astonishing how close they are

947
00:52:56,920 --> 00:52:59,280
Speaker 8: to him, and you see that in the real footage.

948
00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:01,120
Speaker 8: It's just like, what are all these people doing there?

949
00:53:01,239 --> 00:53:03,520
Speaker 8: Why are they crowding around him in this way. It's

950
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:06,160
Speaker 8: a really weird thing, but it also reads this very

951
00:53:06,160 --> 00:53:06,759
Speaker 8: true to life.

952
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:09,480
Speaker 10: One of my favorite instances of that like want to

953
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 10: be the guy mentality in Dog Day Afternoon is the

954
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:16,880
Speaker 10: two doctors that rush out of the crowd that like

955
00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:21,120
Speaker 10: race to be the one to help, you know, and

956
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:24,759
Speaker 10: the one who doesn't get picked being so dejected. You know.

957
00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:27,720
Speaker 10: Like we also get a little bit of that delight

958
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:30,920
Speaker 10: in being part of the narrative with the Pizza Guy

959
00:53:31,080 --> 00:53:36,000
Speaker 10: stuff too, But the doctors in particular I enjoyed for

960
00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:40,920
Speaker 10: sort of the irony of them theoretically offering themselves up

961
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:44,840
Speaker 10: to help, but really just wanting to be on TV

962
00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:48,000
Speaker 10: and getting to be a part of this spectacle.

963
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:50,760
Speaker 8: I think you're exactly right, but I just love Pizza

964
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:51,439
Speaker 8: Guy so much.

965
00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:55,560
Speaker 10: And yeah, before we wrap up in kind of going

966
00:53:55,600 --> 00:54:00,520
Speaker 10: back to the live broadcast aspect of both of these,

967
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:05,759
Speaker 10: it's definitely a bigger moment in Dead Man's Wire than

968
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:08,719
Speaker 10: in Dog Day Afternoon, But you know, they both do

969
00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:12,759
Speaker 10: sort of have a live broadcast, which kind of butt

970
00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:17,680
Speaker 10: up in amusing ways against these films use of profanity

971
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:21,359
Speaker 10: and the words that you can't say on television, and

972
00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:26,920
Speaker 10: these two men do anyway. And Sunny of course gets

973
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:33,120
Speaker 10: cut off quite abruptly when he does, whereas Tony seems

974
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:36,800
Speaker 10: to you know, I mean, they're already taking a gamble.

975
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:39,719
Speaker 10: He's not going to shoot someone on television. I guess

976
00:54:39,719 --> 00:54:42,680
Speaker 10: they're not too worried about him language at that point.

977
00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:46,239
Speaker 10: But within that connection, Dog Day Afternoon is sort of

978
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:51,240
Speaker 10: recurring attitude toward profanity, particularly coming from the bank tellers,

979
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:57,759
Speaker 10: the women, you know, is quite funny, like what's the

980
00:54:58,280 --> 00:54:59,960
Speaker 10: how does she put it, like, my ears are not

981
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:07,120
Speaker 10: garbage can or something, I'm a Christian garbage I'm yeah, yeah,

982
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:09,799
Speaker 10: so you know, And maybe there's a little bit of

983
00:55:10,080 --> 00:55:14,520
Speaker 10: you know, of the era ness to that, but yeah,

984
00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:19,560
Speaker 10: it's funny that two such profane films do kind of

985
00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:23,640
Speaker 10: engage with that profanity in meaningful and humorous ways.

986
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:26,560
Speaker 8: I just really enjoyed the way the other tellers, like,

987
00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:30,120
Speaker 8: you know, they're not going to call her on that

988
00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:32,920
Speaker 8: that attitude feeling a little a little prudish or a

989
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:35,279
Speaker 8: little out of place in this situation, but they do

990
00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:38,959
Speaker 8: kind of, you know, press their lips together and try

991
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:42,279
Speaker 8: not to outright laugh at her while they're kind of

992
00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:45,240
Speaker 8: laughing at her for it. Yeah, Whereas I just enjoy

993
00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:48,759
Speaker 8: Dead Man's Wire being about, you know, one of one

994
00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:53,680
Speaker 8: of the first nationwide live TV broadcasts, and the subject

995
00:55:53,719 --> 00:55:57,239
Speaker 8: of it cannot stop swearing, and it caused a lot

996
00:55:57,239 --> 00:55:59,720
Speaker 8: of trouble if you if you go watch the clips

997
00:55:59,719 --> 00:56:04,040
Speaker 8: on you to points where you just can't hear a word,

998
00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:05,799
Speaker 8: he says, because it's all being beeped out.

999
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:09,920
Speaker 6: You can hear all that glorious profanity and more in

1000
00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:13,640
Speaker 6: both Dog Day Afternoon and Dead Man's Wire. Do Day

1001
00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:16,440
Speaker 6: Afternoon is rentable through the usual places. It's also streaming

1002
00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:18,279
Speaker 6: for free on two B or if you're want to

1003
00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:20,560
Speaker 6: go in the opposite direction, it's available on DVD and

1004
00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:23,560
Speaker 6: Blu ray, and the Blu Ray on the edition I

1005
00:56:23,600 --> 00:56:26,920
Speaker 6: have has that nice litte complementary as I have referenced before.

1006
00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:30,439
Speaker 6: Also a future length documentary on John Cazal, So yeah,

1007
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:33,120
Speaker 6: that might be worth your time. Dead Man's Wire should

1008
00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:36,160
Speaker 6: be playing in a theater near you now or will

1009
00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:39,400
Speaker 6: be soon. It's kind of rolling out a little bit

1010
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:42,200
Speaker 6: at a time. We'll be right back after the break

1011
00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:44,080
Speaker 6: with your next picture show.

1012
00:56:50,200 --> 00:56:50,439
Speaker 3: Hi.

1013
00:56:50,719 --> 00:56:53,680
Speaker 4: I'm Emily, your friend and jeweler at Shame Company, where

1014
00:56:53,719 --> 00:56:56,840
Speaker 4: fine jewelry is always crafted with care, no matter the price.

1015
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Speaker 4: Mother's Day, birthdays and graduations and anniversaries, the new job

1016
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1017
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Speaker 4: birthstone necklace, a heart shaped locket made in Italy, or

1018
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Speaker 4: high quality diamond studs. You can trade up every year.

1019
00:57:10,280 --> 00:57:13,080
Speaker 4: At Shane Company, we have something for everyone. Because a

1020
00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:15,879
Speaker 4: friend wants you to win the gifting game, visit us

1021
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:19,120
Speaker 4: in store or at Shaneco dot Com Shane Company, your

1022
00:57:19,160 --> 00:57:19,920
Speaker 4: Friend and Jeweler.

1023
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:26,960
Speaker 6: Finally, it's tied to recommend a film or fimulated item

1024
00:57:27,120 --> 00:57:29,720
Speaker 6: that compliments this set of episodes. We call it your

1025
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:31,960
Speaker 6: Next Picture Show and the hopes it'll put some interesting

1026
00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:33,400
Speaker 6: choices on your radar.

1027
00:57:33,560 --> 00:57:34,200
Speaker 7: Who's got one?

1028
00:57:34,200 --> 00:57:34,320
Speaker 5: Oh?

1029
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:36,000
Speaker 7: Yeah, me? Actually, it's got me.

1030
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:39,680
Speaker 6: One of our listener wrote an ahead of this episode

1031
00:57:39,880 --> 00:57:44,000
Speaker 6: to recommend a podcast called American Hostage, which was released

1032
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:47,520
Speaker 6: a couple of years ago. It is another take on

1033
00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:51,520
Speaker 6: the Tony Kurtzis story done in the form of a

1034
00:57:51,600 --> 00:57:56,800
Speaker 6: dramatized podcast. Is written directed by Sean Christensen who and

1035
00:57:56,960 --> 00:58:01,880
Speaker 6: stars John Ham as I Believe I'm an invented character.

1036
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:06,560
Speaker 6: He plays sort of a veteran radio reporter who is

1037
00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:09,760
Speaker 6: unhappy with his He's kind of passive place, you know,

1038
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:12,160
Speaker 6: even though he's playing a veteran uh and and you know,

1039
00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:14,000
Speaker 6: older white guy. He kind of has the same role

1040
00:58:14,440 --> 00:58:17,120
Speaker 6: as the Mhala character in dead Man Twire in the

1041
00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:20,280
Speaker 6: sense that he wants a piece of the action. And

1042
00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:23,360
Speaker 6: you know also so he also plays the same role

1043
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:26,880
Speaker 6: as Colmin Domingo character play because the crisis character who

1044
00:58:26,920 --> 00:58:30,400
Speaker 6: is is just calling Tony crisis in this uh you know,

1045
00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:33,680
Speaker 6: knows him and trusts him to degree. But I've only

1046
00:58:33,680 --> 00:58:36,760
Speaker 6: listened to the first episode. I compelled enough. I'm going

1047
00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:39,560
Speaker 6: to listen to the rest because it definitely seems very

1048
00:58:39,560 --> 00:58:43,120
Speaker 6: interested in some of the same issues with journalistic ethics

1049
00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:46,760
Speaker 6: that get touched on a little bit and dead Man's Wire,

1050
00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:48,760
Speaker 6: but I think are a pretty good part of the story.

1051
00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:53,440
Speaker 6: Him co stars with Joseph Prino who plays Critsis, Carla Gugino,

1052
00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:56,520
Speaker 6: Dylan Baker, and Becky and Baker all in Here's the

1053
00:58:56,680 --> 00:59:00,720
Speaker 6: Here's the other twist. It is apparently being develop into

1054
00:59:00,760 --> 00:59:05,240
Speaker 6: an anthology series for MGM. Plus we'll see that happens.

1055
00:59:05,280 --> 00:59:07,760
Speaker 6: I think it would be very odd if, you know,

1056
00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:10,040
Speaker 6: a TV series told exactly the same story as dead

1057
00:59:10,080 --> 00:59:12,720
Speaker 6: Man's Wire, But who knows. We'll see, We'll see if

1058
00:59:12,760 --> 00:59:15,960
Speaker 6: that actually comes to fruition should be, you know, it

1059
00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:19,160
Speaker 6: should be interesting either way. So that is your next

1060
00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:23,120
Speaker 6: picture show, I suggested by one of our very attentive listeners,

1061
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:30,919
Speaker 6: and that's it For this edition of the Next Picture Show,

1062
00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:32,800
Speaker 6: We've got a doozy of a next pairing lined up

1063
00:59:32,840 --> 00:59:34,880
Speaker 6: for you, Jennevie, Would you like to tell us about it?

1064
00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:38,160
Speaker 10: In the new Sam Reimi thriller Send Help, Rachel McAdams

1065
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:41,760
Speaker 10: plays a socially awkward but highly competent businesswoman whose new

1066
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:45,440
Speaker 10: young NEPO baby boss, played by Dylan O'Brien, passes her

1067
00:59:45,520 --> 00:59:47,960
Speaker 10: up for a promotion. But when a jet crash puts

1068
00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:50,760
Speaker 10: them on a deserted island together, the power dynamic between

1069
00:59:50,760 --> 00:59:53,880
Speaker 10: them starts to shift. Her survival skills in general know

1070
00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:57,280
Speaker 10: how give her leverage over her pampered boss, whose expertise

1071
00:59:57,360 --> 00:59:59,800
Speaker 10: mostly extends to which iron to use for an approach

1072
01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:03,600
Speaker 10: on the green. This topsy turvy relationship between a man

1073
01:00:03,640 --> 01:00:06,160
Speaker 10: and a woman from different social classes calls to mind

1074
01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:10,280
Speaker 10: Italian director Lena urt Muller's nineteen seventy four provocation Swept Away.

1075
01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:13,680
Speaker 10: In Vert Muller's film, another couple lands on a deserted

1076
01:00:13,720 --> 01:00:16,360
Speaker 10: island together, this time a snooty rich woman and a

1077
01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:19,400
Speaker 10: communist crew member on her yacht, whom she routinely insults.

1078
01:00:20,160 --> 01:00:23,000
Speaker 10: Next week, we'll talk about the social engender dynamic between

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01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:25,800
Speaker 10: the men and women in both films, and how circumstances

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01:00:25,880 --> 01:00:27,120
Speaker 10: upend their relationships.

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01:00:27,440 --> 01:00:29,680
Speaker 6: For now, we welcome you here feedback on DoD Day Afternoon,

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01:00:29,720 --> 01:00:31,920
Speaker 6: dead Man's Why Are anything else film related you'd like

1083
01:00:32,040 --> 01:00:34,280
Speaker 6: to talk about? You can email us at comments at

1084
01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:36,880
Speaker 6: nextprictureshow dot net, or leave us a voicemail at seven

1085
01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:40,520
Speaker 6: seven three two three four nine seven three zero before

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01:00:40,520 --> 01:00:42,680
Speaker 6: we close out this week's episode. Where can we find

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01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:43,800
Speaker 6: everyone these days?

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01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:44,760
Speaker 7: Tasha? How about you?

1089
01:00:45,320 --> 01:00:48,200
Speaker 8: I am the entertainment editor at polygon dot com. You

1090
01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:52,880
Speaker 8: can find my writing and interviews and whatnot there. You

1091
01:00:52,920 --> 01:00:57,840
Speaker 8: can also find me creating a we're experimenting with quizzz.

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01:00:58,080 --> 01:01:01,080
Speaker 8: This was something that was sort of casual suggested and

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01:01:01,280 --> 01:01:04,680
Speaker 8: I immediately thought that would be fun. So I put

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01:01:04,680 --> 01:01:08,000
Speaker 8: together a little quiz on the first frames of a

1095
01:01:08,080 --> 01:01:13,120
Speaker 8: bunch of movies that launched franchises, and it was a

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01:01:13,160 --> 01:01:16,080
Speaker 8: lot of fun to put together. If you look for

1097
01:01:16,400 --> 01:01:18,680
Speaker 8: first frames on polygon dot com, you'll find a little

1098
01:01:18,760 --> 01:01:21,880
Speaker 8: quiz that will ask you can you recognize what this

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01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:24,720
Speaker 8: shot is and where it's from? It's not easy. I'll

1100
01:01:24,720 --> 01:01:27,640
Speaker 8: tell you that I am also on Blue Sky on

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01:01:27,680 --> 01:01:30,560
Speaker 8: and off at Tasha Robinson, Jennivie, what about you.

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01:01:31,400 --> 01:01:34,280
Speaker 10: I am also on Blue Sky on and off, more

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01:01:34,360 --> 01:01:37,880
Speaker 10: off than on at Genevieve Koski, and I am the

1104
01:01:38,040 --> 01:01:41,760
Speaker 10: TV editor at Vulture, where I mostly edit things, but

1105
01:01:42,480 --> 01:01:45,080
Speaker 10: about twice a year I write something, and that just happened.

1106
01:01:45,120 --> 01:01:48,520
Speaker 10: Recently I wrote a little thing about the season premiere

1107
01:01:48,560 --> 01:01:52,560
Speaker 10: of The Pit, a little textual analysis for those of

1108
01:01:52,600 --> 01:01:56,920
Speaker 10: you who enjoy such things. But like I said, mostly

1109
01:01:56,960 --> 01:01:58,640
Speaker 10: I am behind the scenes.

1110
01:01:59,560 --> 01:02:04,440
Speaker 5: Scott, you could find me mostly the Reveal the newslet

1111
01:02:04,480 --> 01:02:09,000
Speaker 5: I write with Keith it's the Revealed Dot film. We're

1112
01:02:09,080 --> 01:02:10,960
Speaker 5: up and running in the new year. We've got a

1113
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:14,240
Speaker 5: lot of exciting things happening, and I think if you

1114
01:02:14,360 --> 01:02:16,920
Speaker 5: joined soon, if you actually pay to join, then you

1115
01:02:16,920 --> 01:02:20,520
Speaker 5: can be part of our big annual subscriber poll, which

1116
01:02:20,760 --> 01:02:22,360
Speaker 5: is a lot of fun and has a lot you know,

1117
01:02:22,440 --> 01:02:25,840
Speaker 5: we solicit a lot of thoughts from our readers, who

1118
01:02:25,880 --> 01:02:28,520
Speaker 5: are always really smart. You find my work also in

1119
01:02:28,560 --> 01:02:32,200
Speaker 5: The New York Times, Vulture, Guardian, and other fine publications.

1120
01:02:32,240 --> 01:02:35,280
Speaker 5: You can find me on Blue Sky at Scott Tobias,

1121
01:02:35,480 --> 01:02:37,600
Speaker 5: Keith Hipps what about you, hold on.

1122
01:02:37,640 --> 01:02:43,640
Speaker 6: I'm just finishing up this franchise starter frame was going

1123
01:02:43,800 --> 01:02:47,040
Speaker 6: so far, missed a couple of them, feel bad about

1124
01:02:47,480 --> 01:02:50,920
Speaker 6: but more than I thought I would get. So I'm

1125
01:02:50,920 --> 01:02:53,080
Speaker 6: a freelance writer. You can read me at places like

1126
01:02:53,360 --> 01:02:57,160
Speaker 6: sometimes Vulture, sometimes The Ringer, sometimes TV Guide. Sometimes I

1127
01:02:57,200 --> 01:03:02,320
Speaker 6: just had a piece in GQ, but Gentlemen. As a gentleman,

1128
01:03:02,360 --> 01:03:05,920
Speaker 6: I'm obligated to write for Gentlemen's quarterly only quarterly. But

1129
01:03:06,280 --> 01:03:08,160
Speaker 6: you know, you can mostly find me at the Reveal.

1130
01:03:08,160 --> 01:03:10,000
Speaker 6: At the Reveal dot film. That's the newsletter that I

1131
01:03:10,040 --> 01:03:12,000
Speaker 6: co write with Scott Tobias. He just told you all

1132
01:03:12,040 --> 01:03:14,320
Speaker 6: about it, but so I won't say anymore. But we

1133
01:03:14,480 --> 01:03:17,000
Speaker 6: like it. We are a little two man operation. We're

1134
01:03:17,240 --> 01:03:20,280
Speaker 6: pretty happy with it. And for this four person operation

1135
01:03:20,400 --> 01:03:24,280
Speaker 6: you can for five. Dan Jakes is honorary right.

1136
01:03:25,720 --> 01:03:26,360
Speaker 7: You can say up.

1137
01:03:26,240 --> 01:03:28,160
Speaker 6: Thered on the Next Picture Show at Next Picture Show

1138
01:03:28,160 --> 01:03:30,959
Speaker 6: dot net and on Blue Sky at the Next Picture Show.

1139
01:03:31,000 --> 01:03:34,400
Speaker 6: You can get bonus content at opendiscussion, at Patreon dot com,

1140
01:03:34,440 --> 01:03:37,520
Speaker 6: slash Next Picture Show, and as always, re appreciate your

1141
01:03:37,600 --> 01:03:40,680
Speaker 6: rating and reviews on Apple Podcasts or Spotify wherever I

1142
01:03:40,840 --> 01:03:43,120
Speaker 6: listen to the show. Thanks to Dan the Bikes Jakes

1143
01:03:43,120 --> 01:03:45,840
Speaker 6: for his assistance producing this podcast, The Next Picture Show,

1144
01:03:45,880 --> 01:03:47,560
Speaker 6: is proud to be part of the Film Spotting family

1145
01:03:47,560 --> 01:03:49,680
Speaker 6: of podcasts. Please tune in next time.

1146
01:04:01,920 --> 01:04:02,680
Speaker 8: It was a good movie.

1147
01:04:03,000 --> 01:04:04,560
Speaker 3: Yah seen here before once