Speaker 1: Forever. Look man, oh, I see you? Why why? And
Speaker 1: look over there? How is that culture? Yes? Goodness? Well
Speaker 1: ding Dong lost culture calling And I've declared that already
Speaker 1: off Mike, we have a title of app This is unprecedented,
Speaker 1: unprecedented to not even involve the listeners in our thought process,
Speaker 1: but to know what the theme of an episode will be,
Speaker 1: to know, well, how do we arrive at this? Well?
Speaker 1: What should we just reveal? What what we think so far?
Speaker 1: That the front runner for the title of up is
Speaker 1: the front runner for the title of at this time
Speaker 1: is dark gay culture? And why? Because we we were
Speaker 1: talking with our guests about downtown l A, about how
Speaker 1: culturally it's shifted for the last two decades, and I said,
Speaker 1: there's a gay bar in downtown l A called Precinct,
Speaker 1: And our guests had a reaction to that. She said,
Speaker 1: who wants to get hard at a bar called Precinct,
Speaker 1: to which I replied, that's probably a lot of people,
Speaker 1: And and then that's a and then you said, you guess,
Speaker 1: and it's dark gay culture and we both had a
Speaker 1: paroxysm of laughter. And we should say, we're recording this
Speaker 1: from New York City. One of the top three cities
Speaker 1: in the world New York City, Paris, and Tokyo. And
Speaker 1: so we should say that we're here in New York City.
Speaker 1: I have come back for the weekend. It's shoy I
Speaker 1: haven't seen you. When was the last time we saw
Speaker 1: each other? I think l A. I think l was
Speaker 1: the last time, famously in the top ten cities in
Speaker 1: the world, to which are New York, Paris, Tokyo, Berlin, Sitney, Shanghai, Mumby,
Speaker 1: Cape Town, and of course Athens. Wow, Athens in London.
Speaker 1: Really fighting in London didn't make the cut. Lindon didn't
Speaker 1: make it. Athens edged it out. It's culture edged it
Speaker 1: out because you thought, and this is your fucking problem
Speaker 1: at home. You thought this is a financial thing now
Speaker 1: that we were during it, based on how they're the
Speaker 1: epicenter of business and all that sort of you know,
Speaker 1: finance culture. Well, guess what, bitch, No, it's about the culture.
Speaker 1: And Athens has been here since the beginning, especially Rule
Speaker 1: of culture number six. Athens has been here in the beginning.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, we're we're coming in the hot, white, hot,
Speaker 1: white hot. I haven't felt this energy. White. It says
Speaker 1: it says it says white and hot as West Hollywood,
Speaker 1: dark ag culture is white. Would you say dark ag
Speaker 1: culture is white? I say, I would say, you would
Speaker 1: say that, oh bitch. I I didn't say it, I
Speaker 1: postured it to you. I would say, I don't want
Speaker 1: to pick on West Hollywood because here's the thing. Here's
Speaker 1: the thing. We're all trying our best. We're all trying
Speaker 1: our best. Truly, we're all trying our best. Sometimes I
Speaker 1: go to West Hollywood. I look around and I say, well,
Speaker 1: everyone here is trying their best. I don't think it's
Speaker 1: it's the same thing some people. Some people are intentionally
Speaker 1: trying their worst. But you know what in that In
Speaker 1: that regard, I believe they're trying their best, and some
Speaker 1: people's worst, it is unfortunately their best. Look our guest
Speaker 1: is the best, and whenever she tries, and La Native
Speaker 1: and Elie Native, whenever she tries, it's always the best.
Speaker 1: I would say, sometimes this person doesn't even have to
Speaker 1: try for Can I tell you somethingortless? I've talked the
Speaker 1: way I've talked about this person to people, I say,
Speaker 1: you are emphatic. I am since day one I saw her.
Speaker 1: Everyone should please check out her web series Gigi iconic
Speaker 1: web series. The first frame I saw, I was like,
Speaker 1: who the fund is that? When did we watch it?
Speaker 1: We were on the back of a lift and we
Speaker 1: watched it. Were recently we were watching? That was an
Speaker 1: l a. I had to um, there was a there's
Speaker 1: a scene that takes place outside of once Harolded, New
Speaker 1: York venue. Much more, um, where are our guests? Just
Speaker 1: truly the reactions to so are so unpresident. I'm okay,
Speaker 1: what was your characters? What's your character's name? Mona Eliza,
Speaker 1: I'm lies, Oh god, it's really funny. Please check out. Also,
Speaker 1: she has a wonderful podcast called so Fashion Eating Our
Speaker 1: good friend Max Witter. Yes, and of the instagram is
Speaker 1: aspiring three to three actress three to three as an
Speaker 1: area code, and as our guest puts it, of course
Speaker 1: it's the space between the words, and of course area
Speaker 1: codes are space. Now I just have to I just
Speaker 1: have to say the way I talk about our guests
Speaker 1: to other people, I mean, I mean downtown legend. At
Speaker 1: this point, I think she she has made me cry
Speaker 1: laughing by merely going up on stage. This happened at
Speaker 1: Pig recently hosted by Peter Smith and Sandy Jig this
Speaker 1: was a iconic lineup. She remember, I even knew about
Speaker 1: this line up from across the count She goes up
Speaker 1: on stage and she's just like, okay, everyone give me
Speaker 1: a beat, and she like it makes everyone start to
Speaker 1: clap to a Yeah. You think she's about to sing
Speaker 1: a song or something or a chance something at least
Speaker 1: she just nip. But instead what she does is for
Speaker 1: about three solid at minutes, sustains this makes the audience,
Speaker 1: keeps the audience on their fucking toes, and then just
Speaker 1: goes faster. That's so down. Just was fully fucking with
Speaker 1: the audience in a way that made me. That drove
Speaker 1: me to tears. I was I would like to talk
Speaker 1: about the art of performance with our guests because I
Speaker 1: was also we were just having a conversation. We were
Speaker 1: sitting in two chairs facing each other, and we were
Speaker 1: having a conversation about how you know, our our guest
Speaker 1: is on tour, yes, not unlike us, not unlike us,
Speaker 1: Um we're always on tour al so stupid. Okay, So
Speaker 1: anyway we were saying, and I guess share with me. Yes,
Speaker 1: that's something. There are ebbs and flows and the love
Speaker 1: of performance. Oh yes, so right now, our guests is
Speaker 1: like kind of feeling like like we need we need
Speaker 1: to reignite the love of being on the stage again.
Speaker 1: And this is a theme I'd like to explore. I
Speaker 1: would love to explore this because this is actually universal.
Speaker 1: It's universal to everyone. Everyone, everyone, teachers, students, students, principles, principles, everybody, everyone,
Speaker 1: an important part of a school system, I'll say, custodians
Speaker 1: an essential part of a school system. We had some
Speaker 1: hot ones. Did you sexy custodians in my school? Are
Speaker 1: you fucking kidding? No? And did you ever make a move? No?
Speaker 1: It was it would it would be illegal. Can I
Speaker 1: say if I was going to fuck a teacher in
Speaker 1: high school or an adult in high school, I would
Speaker 1: have loved to have gone out with a bang and
Speaker 1: have it be the custodian because no one would have
Speaker 1: seen that coming. And that is subversion and that is art,
Speaker 1: and you know who is art and subversion? Our guest,
Speaker 1: now please welcome into your ears. Ruby mccallison. Finally, that
Speaker 1: was hard, It was insane? What was hard about it?
Speaker 1: I was just laughing, laughing, laughing, laughing, And Matt, who
Speaker 1: I am now calling famous? My mother's name is Katrina.
Speaker 1: She loved that. She'll call me a traina. You look
Speaker 1: like a Katrina baby, you really do? What about trainas
Speaker 1: on fire? Truly might be the l a thing. I
Speaker 1: don't know, seriously, what I find. I find New York
Speaker 1: hear me on that New York comedians go to l
Speaker 1: A and they come back with this like jacked ego
Speaker 1: they do, and they were I'm like, I'm the smartest,
Speaker 1: I'm the best, and I think it's that's what I'm doing. No, no, no,
Speaker 1: it's like cool. It's like you're so confident and like
Speaker 1: alive and like in your mind and in your references
Speaker 1: and you're like that that can can I tell you
Speaker 1: you're on fire? And I think that's what you so?
Speaker 1: Can I tell you what it is? Though, I'll tell
Speaker 1: you what it truly is. It's not an ego thing,
Speaker 1: or at least it's interesting. It's a joy in being
Speaker 1: back here, Sunding. It is a soaking up of the surroundings.
Speaker 1: It is a call to action in myself and said,
Speaker 1: you know what, I know for a fact now I'm
Speaker 1: not always here. So while i'm here, I'm gonna be here.
Speaker 1: That's the way it is, period. That's what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: that's the l A Jack. Something happens feeling and you're
Speaker 1: just so in it, like you're so in your mind,
Speaker 1: you're so it's just like it's really gorgeous. I'm so
Speaker 1: say that because I'll tell you this. You know, we're
Speaker 1: talking about being on stage and performing. Maybe it's this.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's the fact that I'm with two just icon
Speaker 1: people of the stage, a woman of the stage, if
Speaker 1: you gather my meaning. So basically like I feel like
Speaker 1: New York is like a performance town, whereas l A
Speaker 1: is sit around and wait, right, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: like audition which is not performance. You know, it's just
Speaker 1: kind of not performance famously famously eleven auditioning is not
Speaker 1: performing famously that is huge. It is auditioning. Is it
Speaker 1: sort of like what I'd imagine like being a prostitute.
Speaker 1: It's the closest thing to like faked intimacy, Like hey,
Speaker 1: does this feel good to you? Like like right, and
Speaker 1: private dancer, very private dancer, And I just like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it isn't It really isn't performance in the same way
Speaker 1: like I don't get I don't get high. And that's
Speaker 1: the thing right now with what I'm experiencing. I just
Speaker 1: am not getting the high now, And I asked you,
Speaker 1: why do you think? But why do you think? That? Is? What? What?
Speaker 1: What's what's happening right now? I'm you know what, Famously,
Speaker 1: I don't really write jokes, and you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: It is like, famously, I really don't write jokes. I
Speaker 1: do sort of like bits that I can work out
Speaker 1: with audiences. Right now, I'm trying to be I'm like
Speaker 1: looking at my life. You know what I'm this is
Speaker 1: going to be a little bit of industry. But it's
Speaker 1: like you know, when you're a pitching pitching pitching and
Speaker 1: you have that one idea that's like maybe about your
Speaker 1: mom or your brother, you're you know, dead cat something personal.
Speaker 1: The thing is is I'm realizing I'm pitching these ideas
Speaker 1: and the only things that are getting reactions are about
Speaker 1: my real life and my childhood, which is blink flashing lights,
Speaker 1: flashing lights. So I'm like, I gotta deal with this.
Speaker 1: I have to write that. And so I'm starting to
Speaker 1: write jokes about my true actual childhood and it's difficult
Speaker 1: and it's not giving me the like like like I'm
Speaker 1: not getting jacked on stage because I'm talking about these
Speaker 1: real and if now, like if a joke doesn't something
Speaker 1: doesn't land, I'm like, oh damn, that's a joke about
Speaker 1: my dad. And it's like it's like a little like
Speaker 1: it feels very um like a wet it's like a
Speaker 1: wet how it's like a moldy towel. It's like it's like,
Speaker 1: oh damn it like I crafted this thing. I'm sharing
Speaker 1: this weird fucking fact about my dad and it's not landing.
Speaker 1: Oh Like it's so so I'm not getting high like
Speaker 1: I usually did. Okay, let's say let's say, um, let's
Speaker 1: say there's no gatekeeper person responding to you being like,
Speaker 1: oh yes, Ruby, right about that? Right about your family?
Speaker 1: If you could like what like ideal performance for you?
Speaker 1: What what does that entail? Well, the thing is is
Speaker 1: I this is going We're going straight into where I'm from.
Speaker 1: But it's um my father. You have to understand, was
Speaker 1: a producer and company manager of Exclusively One Woman shows
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles when I was growing up. So the goal,
Speaker 1: in a way I really realized, has always been talking
Speaker 1: about my life. It really has been. And I I'm
Speaker 1: sort of tait on the edge of my Saturn return Darling. Yes,
Speaker 1: but I'm cheetering. I'm not there yet. It's gonna shift
Speaker 1: soon and so um. And it just came to me
Speaker 1: as like, you know, I'm sort of I love before,
Speaker 1: I love what I'm doing, I love all the ship
Speaker 1: that I'm doing whatever, blah blah blah. So I'll treat
Speaker 1: to myself, but I am sort of lying because I
Speaker 1: am not getting to who I am. You know what
Speaker 1: I'm here's the thing I need to talk about the
Speaker 1: true story, and that's what I was born in a
Speaker 1: way to do. I hear you. I hear that. But
Speaker 1: that's also a specific not value system. But it's just yes, sure,
Speaker 1: it literally is a value system where someone is saying
Speaker 1: it's more valuable to us that you talk about your life.
Speaker 1: Whereas I as an audience member, love it, love when
Speaker 1: you do something that's completely divorced from anything personal. And
Speaker 1: it's just as you literally making people clapped rightful to
Speaker 1: sell I go on stage and the raw quality of
Speaker 1: who I am is a lot of people respond to it,
Speaker 1: and like that is what we do. We build something
Speaker 1: together that is like you know, you know, like Sandra
Speaker 1: Bernhard comes to mind, you know what I mean, like,
Speaker 1: can you believe Arina is on fire? You have? I have.
Speaker 1: I have been sitting here, I have been singing Da dada,
Speaker 1: I've been talking for years now, and no one except
Speaker 1: for myself, I've had to pull that reference out of
Speaker 1: the bag. Yes, and that is that is what I
Speaker 1: get when I see you and that and it is
Speaker 1: very that it is not something that is like dependent
Speaker 1: on follow a story. It is dependent on follow the
Speaker 1: emotion and the spirit of the performance in the room.
Speaker 1: And I think that when you try to are are
Speaker 1: forced to go in front of someone and say, let
Speaker 1: me package this in front of you and tell you
Speaker 1: what it is. It's not easy to do. And so
Speaker 1: that's why I think people respond to you saying like,
Speaker 1: I have a specific story from my childhood and they
Speaker 1: are all interesting, but it's difficult and hard, and the
Speaker 1: journey is learning how to find out how you, inherently
Speaker 1: as a performer on stage are special and how you
Speaker 1: tell those stories. And it's something I'm thinking about all
Speaker 1: the time as well. And like again, Bowen, fabulous point.
Speaker 1: Don't necessarily have to talk about my childhood, dub. But
Speaker 1: it's like I am at this impass where it's like
Speaker 1: I've got to try. I've got to try one day,
Speaker 1: and now I'm trying, and it's so hard, and there
Speaker 1: is no instant gratification, and it's like a relationship. It's
Speaker 1: like not a hot hook up, which some of my
Speaker 1: other bits are definitely hot, hot against the wall, punched
Speaker 1: me in the face. I still came, exactly, I still came,
Speaker 1: and I get to say goodbye and not think about
Speaker 1: you never again. That forgot your name, I forgot your name,
Speaker 1: make up a name. In fact, some of my bits
Speaker 1: are really like that. And now I'm going into this
Speaker 1: relationship of I'm afraid, yeah, but don't be afraid. But
Speaker 1: that's what's happening right now, is I'm sort of waiting
Speaker 1: through some some stuff, you know, waiting through some stuff
Speaker 1: because because famously also i'm sort of like a code switcher.
Speaker 1: People assume a lot about me, but my past is
Speaker 1: very different from the assumption. But if I tell you
Speaker 1: the story, it all adds up to the conclusion, do
Speaker 1: you know. I mean a lot of people assume that
Speaker 1: I'm a rich kid. That's a huge thing I've always gotten.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, honey, like, let me tell you not
Speaker 1: not not you know, I would say, getting to know you,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have pulled l A. I would have pulled
Speaker 1: And I'm sure people tell you this all the time,
Speaker 1: like New York, because you have a very New York
Speaker 1: vibe to me until then and then you do have
Speaker 1: an l A. Then you get to know me. And yeah,
Speaker 1: and if, oh my god, Katrina, if you see me
Speaker 1: in l A with rich people in l A, come on, seriously,
Speaker 1: rich people in l A listening, I You're gonna love me?
Speaker 1: What does that mean? Because I was raised in this theater? Yes, okay,
Speaker 1: so I was raised in the Cornet theater that is
Speaker 1: famously now the Largo. Yes, yes, where we are. We
Speaker 1: both turned into comedians. Bizarre because before it was Largo,
Speaker 1: my dad ran the theater. It was the theater, Theater
Speaker 1: theater are yes, and okay, what I'm like, yeah, totally
Speaker 1: totally theater. Try I got it immediately. I'd say I'm
Speaker 1: Katrina today because today Katrina Rogers today. It's so funny
Speaker 1: clarities pretending that like Katrina Rogers means, like getting it
Speaker 1: is so far off? What it's so far off? Like
Speaker 1: what the real Katrina Rogers is? I don't think. I
Speaker 1: think we're tapping into something that is true about your mother, Katrina.
Speaker 1: My mother is very perceptive, and that's really what we're
Speaker 1: talking about. That's exactly what we're talking very perceptive. Whenever
Speaker 1: I was drinking in high school, show she's lived a life.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. Okay the cornet. Okay, so the cornet.
Speaker 1: I was like the princess of the cornet. I was
Speaker 1: the princess of the cornet, in and out of the
Speaker 1: theater every single goddamn day off until I was twelve
Speaker 1: years old. Then Michael Flanagain, owner of the Largo, famously
Speaker 1: bought it. It was a beautiful exchange of keys. Really,
Speaker 1: my father and him, they loved each other. He was sot.
Speaker 1: The exchange was gorgeous. He said, take the keys, Michael
Speaker 1: flan Again, I love you. Looked at each other in
Speaker 1: the eyes, kissed. And So the theater world of Los
Speaker 1: Angeles is changing right now. But when I was growing up,
Speaker 1: it was very bizarre. It was really like who does theater? Cricket? Cricket?
Speaker 1: It was either first stop or last stop in a career,
Speaker 1: or it was side job like passion, side job like
Speaker 1: my father worked with Megan Molalley, many many, many times,
Speaker 1: because it's what you would do between jobs. And before
Speaker 1: she got Will and Grace, she was always working. And
Speaker 1: he's like avant garde theater productions, and that's how she
Speaker 1: met nick Off is actually through a production my father
Speaker 1: who was producing. How fucking fabulous is It's so funny
Speaker 1: because you forget them as theater they are and they
Speaker 1: are now. It really does the big choices, the kind
Speaker 1: of theatricality that still works on camera. But it's like,
Speaker 1: but in this theater space, as in all like spaces
Speaker 1: actors in habit, there's this like procarity of wealth. There's
Speaker 1: people that have wealth that can like put on the production,
Speaker 1: and then the actors are like literally penniless, you know,
Speaker 1: or like just came here, or are literally like if
Speaker 1: this doesn't work for me, I'm going to kill myself,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like they're literally like either
Speaker 1: first string or last string on the rainbow of strings,
Speaker 1: you know. And um so I was and then I
Speaker 1: was like a scholarship kid at a private school down
Speaker 1: the street from the theater. So I would go from
Speaker 1: the private school walk to who walks in l A
Speaker 1: literally too if I missed New York and I walk
Speaker 1: I walked an hour to the gay bar. You watch
Speaker 1: gay Bar, Hi Tops, Hie Tops, it's a new one.
Speaker 1: I'm out. I'm out of the scene. I forget what
Speaker 1: it used to be called. It's across the street from Beaches.
Speaker 1: I just want to say, if you walk in l
Speaker 1: A with a toe bag or a backpack or any pouch,
Speaker 1: you get the looks are crazy, that are crazy. Everyone's like,
Speaker 1: what the hell are you doing? And you're like, I
Speaker 1: know I'm not from here. You know, having a backpack
Speaker 1: in l A is psychotic. People look at you like,
Speaker 1: why aren't you just in half a T shirt? Where's
Speaker 1: your car? Where's your car? Are you? Are you homeless? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I mean it's weird in that way. And it's like
Speaker 1: I was always interfacing with this hot with people that
Speaker 1: were fabulously wealthy and people that were dirt dirt dirt,
Speaker 1: dirt dirt. So it's this and then like, you know,
Speaker 1: my parents were the paycheck to paycheck we were. I
Speaker 1: was living in a carrious situation always, and I baby
Speaker 1: blanket under the box office, um desk would take knops there.
Speaker 1: I can do a box office blind. I like lived
Speaker 1: my life at the theater. No joke. I really did.
Speaker 1: And you know, it was just like it was like
Speaker 1: you saw all walks of life here, you really did.
Speaker 1: People like I grew up in the theater, like actually
Speaker 1: literally like and it's like, I remember I was fucking
Speaker 1: somebody for the first time, you know, that hot intimate moment.
Speaker 1: He was oversharing about his life. At one he started
Speaker 1: talking and talking about his dad. Dad. When was this
Speaker 1: just like once upon a time, two years ago whatever? Anyway,
Speaker 1: So it's like and then I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: from l A. Like, I'm from theater in l A.
Speaker 1: And then he was like, yeah, I can imagine you
Speaker 1: in the studio a lot, like driving the little golf carts.
Speaker 1: And I go and I get on top of him
Speaker 1: and I look him in the eye and I go,
Speaker 1: I'm from the theater and you will never have sex
Speaker 1: with another lady from l A theater again. I am
Speaker 1: the only person you will ever meet that will say
Speaker 1: this to you, and I remember that with full confidence.
Speaker 1: And it's true. I'll never have s another person that
Speaker 1: can say that. Does it exist? Still? It does it? Weirdly,
Speaker 1: Uber is sort of rejuvenating live performance in l A. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because you can go out later and you can drink
Speaker 1: and have a good time, and it's sort of like
Speaker 1: more seductive than it used to be. You know, I'm
Speaker 1: finding being out there like I'll do like a show
Speaker 1: a week and I'll feel like, Okay, that's the way
Speaker 1: it is. And like even um like people that I'm
Speaker 1: friends without there that are stand ups, like they only
Speaker 1: get up like two or three times a week, whereas
Speaker 1: like in New York it's like twice a night for
Speaker 1: some people. For me, it was like four times a
Speaker 1: week and that was like fine, but like once a
Speaker 1: week now I'm getting up, an I know, I well
Speaker 1: I think that, but like you imagine in the nineties,
Speaker 1: do you know what I mean? Like I just think
Speaker 1: it would be like once a month or something really like,
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's just so nobody wanted to nobody
Speaker 1: wanted to do live anything in l A when I
Speaker 1: was growing up. So you're saying it felt more desolate
Speaker 1: back then than it doesn't. Definitely, But there was like
Speaker 1: these vibrant communities, like the community that Megan and Magmalally
Speaker 1: and Nick Aferman were a part of. This like avantgarde
Speaker 1: theater troupe that was very vibrant and that was like
Speaker 1: a community that like congregated, but otherwise it was like
Speaker 1: these crazy vanity projects from like out of work soap
Speaker 1: opera stars that hadn't worked in thirty years and they're like,
Speaker 1: I want to do my one woman show called Take
Speaker 1: Me or Leave Me. It's like it's like it was
Speaker 1: like that, and like I remember my dad had to
Speaker 1: put on musical about um, the story of Harry Krishna
Speaker 1: called Blue Doves, Blue Dove, and it was like the
Speaker 1: song it was blue Dive, the home they won the Earth,
Speaker 1: big gun, Blue du come on, jingle y blue Dove.
Speaker 1: You want to think that was a commercial Mama, and
Speaker 1: that it was like it was a lot of that.
Speaker 1: It was a lot of that. Nobody I have. I
Speaker 1: have a question for you. So outside of Megan and
Speaker 1: outside of Nick, did anyone from that theater community that
Speaker 1: you were growing up with, did they transition into more
Speaker 1: mainstream success and really kind of wasn't just like the
Speaker 1: theater people were staying in the theater people. This is
Speaker 1: really interesting. Jane lynch Jane Lynch Um did like work
Speaker 1: with that avant garde theater company called Evidence Room It's
Speaker 1: no longer around Um. That was like an east Side
Speaker 1: l a thing, um, and then who else? There was
Speaker 1: this there's out of the Cornet. There was a there
Speaker 1: was there is a production called Utopia that had a
Speaker 1: run on Broadway. I've heard. Oh wait, yes, I think
Speaker 1: I remember. And then like people would come into the
Speaker 1: theater with their stuff like Claudius, Claudio whatever, blowing through
Speaker 1: life sideways. That was sort of like a plot became
Speaker 1: now I'm really gonna like after CRAPI I am, And
Speaker 1: then um, who else Julius Sweeney but that was she
Speaker 1: did someone woman shows there after her about of cancer,
Speaker 1: but that was after, you know, that was after and
Speaker 1: Lily Tomlin. My dad worked with Lily Tomlin for a while.
Speaker 1: So it was like but again obviously already famous, but
Speaker 1: but Jane Lynch really came out of that was like
Speaker 1: the only one I can think of. She's huge though,
Speaker 1: I mean, that's huge. But found success in television everyone
Speaker 1: that's what you do, right, So you know, theater in
Speaker 1: l A. And then you moved to New York. When
Speaker 1: when I was eighteen and interest dying, I think to
Speaker 1: get fucked. To be honest, I just it was just
Speaker 1: I just was I was hyper sexual and I just
Speaker 1: thought that it was easier to get laid in New
Speaker 1: York and it was can I say, I'm in a
Speaker 1: reveal right now, it is much easier. But I think,
Speaker 1: but I think culture has changed in the like eight years,
Speaker 1: I've know what ten years I've been here. You're right
Speaker 1: because in the past ten years unleashed in the world.
Speaker 1: But also like I also grew up in West who
Speaker 1: I did Ye King's Road and Melrose Baby. Absolutely, And
Speaker 1: I mean it's just the straight culture has changed significantly.
Speaker 1: Straights don't have sex. The sex over sex is over
Speaker 1: Ji Jack, you know g Jack famously said we're a
Speaker 1: post human and post sex. What was this whole debate?
Speaker 1: Last name? What was the debate? I was explained because
Speaker 1: I've heard nothing about it. I was going to listen
Speaker 1: to it, but are coming here just to have like,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, culture right right? Um? No, it's it was
Speaker 1: a debate between and Jordan Peterson and it was like
Speaker 1: subtitled capitalism Peterson versus Marxism, um. And it was a
Speaker 1: huge debate. And I don't really know how it was confinded.
Speaker 1: I don't know what was said. I was just mark
Speaker 1: it was trending on my Twitter and was like what
Speaker 1: the fun is, why is trending? Like I felt, truly
Speaker 1: he's a huge deal, but it's also like I haven't
Speaker 1: heard from him in like five years. Yeah, I'm just
Speaker 1: and one of the elements of the discussion with straight
Speaker 1: sexes over humanism. His quotes of recent quotability has been
Speaker 1: we are post human and therefore a post sex and
Speaker 1: he in an interview, he's asked, when's the last time
Speaker 1: you've had sex? And he goes never. That's which I'm
Speaker 1: obsessed me because he's because because he's into erasing his
Speaker 1: sexual history, because he's famously dates models and ship but
Speaker 1: he goes, when's lasting about sex? Because never? That's so honestly,
Speaker 1: that's so honestly anti Trina, but very But in two
Speaker 1: thousand ten, New York was sex sex sex, sex for
Speaker 1: the Straits and I was eighteen. I was on the scene.
Speaker 1: I was banging right now. You know, the straight scene
Speaker 1: is really cricket cricket, really, you know, it is really creeky,
Speaker 1: creek creeky. I don't understand necessarily the factors, but all
Speaker 1: I know is that my thing is that I've noticed
Speaker 1: that for in a straight culture, it's like these things
Speaker 1: are sort of like collapsing into one with like queer
Speaker 1: stuff where it's like everyone's fucking. It's like straights aren't
Speaker 1: having sex because we're straights aren't dating at leastating because um,
Speaker 1: the world is ending, right because the world and um,
Speaker 1: people who are in committed relationships who are straight are
Speaker 1: fucking everybody. And then it's hard for it's hard to
Speaker 1: hold someone down. It's hard to like get to a
Speaker 1: level of commitment with someone that you're starting to date
Speaker 1: because they just want to keep sucking other people too.
Speaker 1: I mean, this has always been a thing with the
Speaker 1: gay community. I'm I'm surprised but not but not shocked
Speaker 1: to hear that it's crossing over the straight community because
Speaker 1: I just feel like patriarchy affects them more because they've
Speaker 1: always had to live inside the box and they think, oh, well,
Speaker 1: monogamy is something that we do, and then with the
Speaker 1: rise of queer culture visibility, you understand that there really
Speaker 1: are truly no rules. We are all animals, etcetera, etcetera.
Speaker 1: And so I'm not surprised, and I also think, like weirdly, um, sorry,
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna get my hands on it. I just
Speaker 1: think like with the opening of monogamy and stuff, which
Speaker 1: is um, it puts a lot of things. I don't
Speaker 1: think it's bad. I think it's fabulous. Or evolution and
Speaker 1: I believe I love Star Trek like I believe in
Speaker 1: the future. Yeah, I believe in I Oh, really interesting.
Speaker 1: We'll talk about that later. I um, but you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. I believe like evolution is eminent. We
Speaker 1: have no controct We're gonna, we're we have to, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. But so like, yes, monogamy, let's
Speaker 1: crush and let's bak it down, let's not do it.
Speaker 1: But in that process, I think monogamy what was bonding
Speaker 1: the straits is that men. This is really interesting note
Speaker 1: is that a lot of men actually don't understand why
Speaker 1: they're attracted to women and are just sort of biologically
Speaker 1: thwarted to do it. And they're like not like I
Speaker 1: you know. Similarly, my hot take, my hot take, the
Speaker 1: cans are falling off, as we think because it's just
Speaker 1: such a hot take. Similar I'm also wearing like a
Speaker 1: polyster shirt. I have to tell you, beaut I thought
Speaker 1: it was cotton, but I'm sweating Polysi. I'm so hot. Okay, anyway,
Speaker 1: I'm so hot right now. Okay, So anyway, because now
Speaker 1: I'm sweating and I'm nervous, and We're just gonna keep
Speaker 1: We're going to track through this. We really we were
Speaker 1: going to evolve through this. Because the thing is Embrace
Speaker 1: Katrina hashtag embrace Katrina is I think that nobody talks
Speaker 1: about this. There is an inherent shame in liking the
Speaker 1: opposite sex. There is that. Okay, I will. I am
Speaker 1: a woman. I've always liked you know, women are hot
Speaker 1: and men are hot, but I've always also really liked man. Okay,
Speaker 1: but I'm not interacting with men that are sexually attracted
Speaker 1: to me as much. I had, you know, gay friends
Speaker 1: very early on and women friends, and those were my
Speaker 1: There's no platonic there was nothing. And so then when
Speaker 1: the protective it is, and then you get this these urges.
Speaker 1: And famously I was at girls school and I was
Speaker 1: hooking up with girls, but then I was getting these
Speaker 1: urges of like I need it, I need a dick,
Speaker 1: I need it, and I'm like, okay, wait, this is horrifying.
Speaker 1: I don't know how to talk to these people. I
Speaker 1: don't want to who are they? I don't want to
Speaker 1: talk to them? What do I have to say to them?
Speaker 1: But I need their decks and the shame is in
Speaker 1: that need. It's like, how do I relate to this person?
Speaker 1: I have nothing to say and I just want their
Speaker 1: penis this, and I think, and that's where sexism is born, really,
Speaker 1: I'm truly because it's so in the same way with
Speaker 1: a straight men. It's like towards women and they also
Speaker 1: run the world, so then they're able and then they, oh,
Speaker 1: I get how I can get I can get my
Speaker 1: penis in a vagina? Is I'm going to dominate her.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna neg her, I gonna make fun of her,
Speaker 1: and she's gonna be bashful, bashful, bashal, and with her
Speaker 1: mutual need for my genital she will deal with it.
Speaker 1: And that is sexism, do you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: And then we go monogamy, monogamy, monogamy, and then we
Speaker 1: have to deal with each other because there's this like weird,
Speaker 1: shameful bond. But with the polyamory thing, which I believe
Speaker 1: in again evolution Star Trek, I believe in no genders,
Speaker 1: all genders, you know, I believe in all of it.
Speaker 1: Humans are over exactly. But with the with the lack
Speaker 1: of monogamy. Now we have to look at our sexism
Speaker 1: in a really brutal way, and then men have to question,
Speaker 1: why the fuck am I dealing with women? I can't
Speaker 1: talk to them, I don't want to talk to them.
Speaker 1: I'm going to masturbate or get a sex doll or
Speaker 1: have anonymous sex or whatever, or figured out that I'm
Speaker 1: actually pinning down something else, which is that I don't
Speaker 1: even like women, yes at all, and I don't even
Speaker 1: want to have sex anymore. So it's that's huge, and
Speaker 1: I think, you know, the lack of monogamy is really
Speaker 1: putting these terms into a blasting stadium light, at least
Speaker 1: for me in the dating pool, because then some men
Speaker 1: I'm realizing I'm having sex with them, and I go,
Speaker 1: they really love women and they want the divide to
Speaker 1: be broken. They want to get intimate with me, and
Speaker 1: they don't have the language for yes, or I date
Speaker 1: men and then I go, oh, they have no use
Speaker 1: for women. They have no use, and they want to
Speaker 1: be gay and they can't be for some other reason,
Speaker 1: maybe biologically they aren't or whatever, you know, they they're
Speaker 1: not fluid or whatever. But it's like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: what is the use for women. This is this what
Speaker 1: you're saying. In the past, the sexism was there was
Speaker 1: a violence and sexism that was outward, and now the
Speaker 1: violence is anywhere. Well, I'm going to just close myself
Speaker 1: off and everything and that's twyes, And that's not translates
Speaker 1: to everybody and nobody at the same exactly, it's a
Speaker 1: non and like weirdly them anogamy was bonding the streets
Speaker 1: together really intense way, and you had to deal with
Speaker 1: the sexism quietly or to yourself or just with your
Speaker 1: partner behind closed doors. But there's a contract maybe whether
Speaker 1: it was a real one wedding or otherwise, there was
Speaker 1: a contract of if you for other people that's not okay, yes,
Speaker 1: but now it's fine. So what's the need? Like it's
Speaker 1: it really does put so much in question, and it
Speaker 1: puts is sexuality by biological is sexual? Like what is sexual?
Speaker 1: And because there's no economic need for marriage exactly, monogamy,
Speaker 1: I guess like go outward. If you seem out then
Speaker 1: like no one gives a shot. Is so interesting that
Speaker 1: we're talking about this because I'm also dealing with it,
Speaker 1: like in terms of in the gay community as well,
Speaker 1: because having moved to a new city for the time
Speaker 1: being at least um and dealing with like the politics
Speaker 1: of meeting a large new group of gay men. It's
Speaker 1: so interesting because you all meet each other and you
Speaker 1: think the first thing you think when you see someone
Speaker 1: is what do I want out of this? What do
Speaker 1: you want out of this? Like? What what will we
Speaker 1: get in from it? What is it is your friends?
Speaker 1: Is it sex? It could be both, it could be
Speaker 1: nothing and so something that I had a conversation with
Speaker 1: someone who I hooked up with, and then it became
Speaker 1: clear the second time we hung out that it wasn't
Speaker 1: going to be that. We kind of sat down and
Speaker 1: talked about why that is. And it's like, well, when
Speaker 1: something could be friendship, which is more lasting, why would
Speaker 1: it be the other thing, um, which is sex, sex,
Speaker 1: which is really just that and that dominates a relationship.
Speaker 1: But then you realize, neither of those things have to
Speaker 1: dominate a relationship. We're just used to culturally you either
Speaker 1: fuck someone and deal with the politics of the relationship later,
Speaker 1: or we were friends with someone and are surprised by
Speaker 1: or dealing with the sexual relation later. Whereas we could
Speaker 1: live in a world where those things were all just
Speaker 1: more a part of an equal The equilibrium of those
Speaker 1: things was just something we accepted, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: Like we could just have these kinds of relations. But
Speaker 1: the patriarchy has ruined us all, at least in our generation,
Speaker 1: because we are looking for all or nothing, and that
Speaker 1: is capitalism. Capitalism the patriarchy that is tough, and that
Speaker 1: is I think resulting in a lot of depression in
Speaker 1: the gay community that I'm observing and you're saying like
Speaker 1: amongst women, and I think secretly quietly amongst men. And
Speaker 1: you can see it in the baby boom or generation
Speaker 1: who are all depressed or at least, like I think,
Speaker 1: not all, but but a huge symptom or a huge
Speaker 1: theme like you know, you think about the movies they
Speaker 1: were making like ten years ago when they were first
Speaker 1: discovering this like American beauty, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: Like like you are so like what I'm saying is
Speaker 1: like these kinds of things like we're the t and
Speaker 1: shin is that I hate my life because I'm married
Speaker 1: and I'm I had children because I'm trapped. That is sad.
Speaker 1: And we are dealing with phase two of them, which
Speaker 1: is the solution forward and I think like this is inevitable.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's bad. Like I don't want monogamy
Speaker 1: to be something that binds anybody. I don't want that
Speaker 1: for anybody. But we are in this bizarre transitional period,
Speaker 1: especially on a heteronormative scale, and the fact that I
Speaker 1: even have to even basically interact with a heteronormative culture what,
Speaker 1: which is profoundly bizarre for me. It's offensive for me,
Speaker 1: but I do you know, and and I'm sorry for
Speaker 1: being like vagina girl penis boy here, but I'm just
Speaker 1: talking about For all the listeners, I'm just talking about
Speaker 1: a heteronormative culture. And that's why I'm using these vain
Speaker 1: and I'm sorry and us I'm just talking about pejorative
Speaker 1: heteronormative culture. Okay, thank you everybody. Anyway, because we are
Speaker 1: in Star Trek territory, we are moving past that. We
Speaker 1: have moved past that, honey, honey. Yeah, we are all
Speaker 1: on that invisible, which we really are, and it's we
Speaker 1: are just dealing. We are we are going to have
Speaker 1: to negotiate these terms and I don't know what it's
Speaker 1: going to look like. I don't know what it is,
Speaker 1: but there is this bizarre sexual apathy that's going on
Speaker 1: right now in heteronormative La La Land because we cannot
Speaker 1: be bound by our differences anymore, and we are. We
Speaker 1: have to confront our differences. We have to love the
Speaker 1: we have to love the opposite. It's so it's it's
Speaker 1: so interesting to see a heteronormative culture embrace something like
Speaker 1: let's just say, in the mainstream RuPaul's drag race right
Speaker 1: with is born out of drag which rejects mainstream culture
Speaker 1: and says this is not real. In fact, nothing is,
Speaker 1: and it's all play right. But then to see something
Speaker 1: like that get absorbed by the mainstream, I think shows
Speaker 1: we're interested in having this conversation and we're interested in
Speaker 1: the themes, but we are not necessarily ready to take
Speaker 1: all those steps forward. Because you'll still hear people say,
Speaker 1: you know, and I'm one of them, like I would
Speaker 1: like to figure out a monogamous relationship. I would do.
Speaker 1: I love it. I love the idea of that, but
Speaker 1: I worry that the animal inside me will make that impossible.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? I genuinely worry that. Did
Speaker 1: you did you read The Argonauts by Maggie Nelson? Have
Speaker 1: I oh shattered this is my huge thing is I
Speaker 1: got luck and pointed my arm when I got goose bumps.
Speaker 1: Look that's her huge look goose bumps. He's got to
Speaker 1: read it, Katrina. You're going to cut Katrina and is not?
Speaker 1: Is that really well? Can you just describe for me
Speaker 1: the listeners what the argonauts is. I don't know. It's
Speaker 1: it's a whole book that's like a love letter to
Speaker 1: this the writer of mac Nelson's partner, who Mary Dodge,
Speaker 1: who's like an amazing experimental artist in Los Angeles, like
Speaker 1: a legend legendary Los Angeles come on in Los Angeles, Patrina.
Speaker 1: So she's writing this book as she's pregnant with their
Speaker 1: child at the same time that he transitions. And the
Speaker 1: and like the whole thing that she ruminates on in
Speaker 1: the book is she's like, it's it's interesting to like
Speaker 1: to sort of fall into some mental model of heteroma
Speaker 1: activity while I while I have this human growing inside
Speaker 1: of me, while I'm also queerying sexuality and relation. Look
Speaker 1: like it's see the goosebumps. Look, I see it's a
Speaker 1: step forward into heater normative ideas well. But she's in
Speaker 1: a queer relationship and she is dealing with Yeah, how
Speaker 1: just negotiating. She's negotiating the rules of the inherent question
Speaker 1: of what is my boundary and what is there? How
Speaker 1: can we be similar and different? I'm also intimately involved
Speaker 1: with this human that has not even been born or
Speaker 1: gendered yet, and it's like and it's it's so beautiful,
Speaker 1: and there's a sequel coming out, and it's Harry's perspective
Speaker 1: that you're gonna lose your Harry is writing it. Yes,
Speaker 1: You're gonna lose. I'm so excited you have to read this.
Speaker 1: We do could never really would love. Yes, very Star Trek,
Speaker 1: just to switch the Star Trek theme that's been appearing
Speaker 1: in this episode thus far, compels me to ask you
Speaker 1: about We have to ask, now, are you a Star
Speaker 1: Trek Queen. I wouldn't say a queen. I would say
Speaker 1: I'm a cadet because I'm very new to the Star
Speaker 1: Trek enterprise. I've had what are you absorbing? Okay, So
Speaker 1: a person that I have been like vaguely involved with
Speaker 1: for a minute, but very heteronormative ambiguity, dealing with that,
Speaker 1: negotiating with that. Yeah, and my best friend, who does
Speaker 1: giuse you with me? They are born on the same day.
Speaker 1: What day? Okay, Scorpios, Scorpio, liber cusp and love them
Speaker 1: my last boyfriend Scorpio. I'm addicted. I'm absolutely Oh God, Socials,
Speaker 1: the Appollonian Dionesian divide of me bra Apollo, Scorpio Dionesian.
Speaker 1: I can't get enough all my best friends of Scio.
Speaker 1: What are you? What are you? Leole me and Cat
Speaker 1: Cohen and can you read that? I now I'm a Pisces.
Speaker 1: How do you feel? Love that Moon and Pisces? Oh
Speaker 1: my god, this is a water sign up show cultural stuff. Okay,
Speaker 1: I am to get this. I am and Pisces and
Speaker 1: I'm like rising Pices. I'm entirely walled. So you are
Speaker 1: you are psychic? I have incredible minds that can tell
Speaker 1: the future. You can and oh my God, and your
Speaker 1: friendship with mo also Pisces, queens, Queen and other good friends.
Speaker 1: Dave is a cancer cancer, truly cancer cancers. For me,
Speaker 1: it can be tough. Start with me. I get a
Speaker 1: little with cancer opposed to Pisces. Sarah Sherman, who I'm
Speaker 1: touring with right now, literally since I was a baby,
Speaker 1: addicted to Scorpios because passion, obsession with darkness, obsession with criticality,
Speaker 1: so smart. I think all scorpios are genius is I
Speaker 1: really don't. And I have for a while thought you
Speaker 1: were a gene Stop anyway, so um, and I'm star
Speaker 1: Trek and I'm I'm truly obsessed. The cancers are a
Speaker 1: little hard for me, just because they're very high maintenance.
Speaker 1: And okay, that the exactly, and the scorpios go, this
Speaker 1: is my boundary at one, So you go, I deal
Speaker 1: with it. I deal with it. Fun with that. Pisces go,
Speaker 1: I'm sort of scared. I'm crying and this is hard
Speaker 1: for me. And I'm like, okay, leo, huge heart, you know.
Speaker 1: I go, okay, okay, you're crying. But the cancers go.
Speaker 1: They go, I'm meaning the salad and I hate it now,
Speaker 1: and I go, you're gonna have to eat that salad.
Speaker 1: You're gonna have to right where the scorpios go, I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna eat a salad, and Pisces go, I realized
Speaker 1: if I don't eat this salad, someone else would have
Speaker 1: wanted the salad, who really needed it. And they eat
Speaker 1: that salad and they cry later and they go out.
Speaker 1: I have diarrhea. That salad sucked. But I I shouldn't
Speaker 1: need it, but I need it, but I needed to.
Speaker 1: You have such a beautiful, holistic view of astrology. Thank you.
Speaker 1: Do you know the podcast What's Your Sign? No? This
Speaker 1: is a really really good podcast. They do it in
Speaker 1: l A. I was on charts. Three comedians that do
Speaker 1: that are obsessed with astrology, and um, they read my
Speaker 1: whole chart and they, I swear to God, I wasn't
Speaker 1: really a believer and until I had my chart read
Speaker 1: and they were able to tell me like what was great?
Speaker 1: And I was like wow. And now I kind of
Speaker 1: like part of me is like still a little bit
Speaker 1: of a cynic about it because it's like okay, but
Speaker 1: I actually like can't and I what I feel, which
Speaker 1: is that everything I've been told has been pretty I'm
Speaker 1: that's also a very huge star Chark journey is that
Speaker 1: everybody is sort of getting on board with the astroship.
Speaker 1: Famously very spic skeptic scorios are downloaded Costar and I'm like,
Speaker 1: this is beautiful. Are you on Costar? I am? I okay,
Speaker 1: but owners I sort of Costar? What is? It's an
Speaker 1: astrology app. It gives your whole chart and then it
Speaker 1: tells you like stuff for the next three weeks. This
Speaker 1: is These are the transits. The thing is about co Star.
Speaker 1: I get really like nervous about the interface of co Star.
Speaker 1: I don't like the illustration. I don't like how it
Speaker 1: looks so much, and that makes me feel really like
Speaker 1: scared interesting a huge deal. That's why Leo big Heart
Speaker 1: the interface of co Star very very monochrome. Very Yeah.
Speaker 1: I like one and it's like, I don't know. I
Speaker 1: follow this really weird instagram astro Instagram called one word
Speaker 1: Leo mood Son, and it's hype. It's these pictures of
Speaker 1: these hyper instagram like an iridescent girl like on a
Speaker 1: pink cloud in Japan, And then you're like, this is horrifying.
Speaker 1: And then you read it and you're like it's poetry
Speaker 1: and you're lone away, and then you look back at
Speaker 1: that iridescent weird like nails of earsdescent, cats eating a
Speaker 1: cup kick and then you're like, oh my god, this
Speaker 1: is beautiful. Just check it out. I can't describe it.
Speaker 1: It's really weird. So do you when it comes with astrology, Like,
Speaker 1: are you someone that reads the horoscopes and follows those?
Speaker 1: Are are you kind of just like I know what
Speaker 1: my sign is, and therefore I know what I feel like.
Speaker 1: I do the transits. I read the transits because that's
Speaker 1: really what everybody should be paying attention to, because the
Speaker 1: transits to dictate, it's how this how the planets are
Speaker 1: moving through the sky at a certain moment. So right
Speaker 1: now we're entering tourists today, famously, and there's a transit
Speaker 1: with your rainus right now that hasn't hello, dark gay
Speaker 1: cultures a bit anyway. Um and then I, uh so
Speaker 1: that transit, the transit that's happening right now, hasn't happened
Speaker 1: in eighty years. Wow, So there's gonna be a huge shift.
Speaker 1: And what does Uranus represent? Yes, okay, absolutely absolutely so
Speaker 1: Uran no no no, Uranus Saturn, which is chronos, yes
Speaker 1: time ding dong ding dong ding dong Pluto, the sign
Speaker 1: of death. Yes. Uranus is about philosophy, our understanding of
Speaker 1: perspective of our internal visions. Yes, okay, which is really
Speaker 1: funny because it's an US internal vision. I love it.
Speaker 1: I love it. The third Eye, George, but I story
Speaker 1: of the eye anyway, the solariness anyway, whatever about what
Speaker 1: I'm saying is that there's something huge it's happening right now,
Speaker 1: and we're going to feel it for a minute. And
Speaker 1: I read that's right. Nope, Hello, Katrina is alive and
Speaker 1: present today, right. That is from no. That is called
Speaker 1: uranus shift, that's called internal present vision. And you, as
Speaker 1: a Pisces, will lead us on the Starship Enterprise, onto
Speaker 1: the Starship Enterprise, star Trek, back to star Trek with
Speaker 1: your Pisces vision. And the more Critrian is released, the
Speaker 1: better for the world. Yes, okay, I want to ask,
Speaker 1: we got to ask me the question we do have
Speaker 1: and what were the thing? Is the thing? I also
Speaker 1: in the best way that this conversation has been for days, right, yeah,
Speaker 1: I feel in the best way like I've learned so much. Truly,
Speaker 1: this is a beautiful, nurturing, amnionic my god. Argonauts. Argonauts
Speaker 1: were in the birthing vessel liquid. Yes, okay, that's very Pisces.
Speaker 1: Connect with that word. I do. Second, I you saw it. Well,
Speaker 1: let's let's just dip our toe in this ruby. We
Speaker 1: asked the question to everybody, what was the culture that
Speaker 1: made you say culture is for me? This is the
Speaker 1: pop culture more sort of like rude for me, culture
Speaker 1: that like infiltrated you at a young age that made
Speaker 1: you say, Okay, now I'm going to step into being
Speaker 1: the Ruby, the Collister that we now have. Okay, this
Speaker 1: is hard, but it's it's camp. It really is okay
Speaker 1: because check it out really quick. I won't belabor this,
Speaker 1: but I was famously not Jewish, and it's really hard
Speaker 1: for me. I went to preschool at a J. C.
Speaker 1: C On Olympic Boilivard in Los Angeles, California, sat there bizarrely.
Speaker 1: I asked my mom the other day, why did you
Speaker 1: do that? She goes, I don't know. I was like
Speaker 1: a crazy liberal in the ninth Was it because it
Speaker 1: was full day? It was full day and it was
Speaker 1: cheaper than private. Why their kids to schools that they
Speaker 1: wouldn't normally do because it's full day. Because my sister
Speaker 1: went to a full on and we were Catholic, went
Speaker 1: to a Catholic school kindergarten because it was full day
Speaker 1: and they had no other full day can garden and
Speaker 1: my mom was like, my daughter, we'll be going to
Speaker 1: school for a full day. So I went Bruka Little
Speaker 1: Colam every Friday, Happy pass Over from from Friday from
Speaker 1: ages three to five. That's affirmative. Okay, so huge huge.
Speaker 1: I did not celebrate Hanakah. I did not celebrate any
Speaker 1: of these holidays, but I lied and I said that
Speaker 1: I did. Obviously I didn't want to be the only right.
Speaker 1: Then one day, my mom one year, she goes, we
Speaker 1: are going to celebrate Hanakah this year. I'm sorry that
Speaker 1: we haven't before. I know that you feel really like isolated,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, great, fine, my mom. In the back
Speaker 1: room of our we ho rented one story, yes bunglow,
Speaker 1: had a table where she would read to Row cards
Speaker 1: because obviously, my mommy is also from California. Little you know,
Speaker 1: a little google. Mom's name is Sue that very cool West,
Speaker 1: Sue Lee West, and she would read her to row
Speaker 1: cards on this table. I was small, obviously I'm still
Speaker 1: small short. I go rummaging underneath the table. One day
Speaker 1: suddenly I find this box VHS tapes on it. Beautiful
Speaker 1: box was a gorgeous box, really colorful, and I read
Speaker 1: the words, well, I couldn't read it, but what it was.
Speaker 1: I popped in the tape. I popped into tapes. I
Speaker 1: popped into tape is Pee's. I found a box at
Speaker 1: a Pee's playhouse at age three, and I come home,
Speaker 1: my mom goes, oh, no, that was your Hanakah gift.
Speaker 1: I was hiding it under my table as a Hanakah gift,
Speaker 1: and I know you were hiding this for me and
Speaker 1: my I watched one fog head exploded and the like
Speaker 1: tortured gay culture that is camp in a way like
Speaker 1: Paul Ruben's famously can't come out right, that whole thing.
Speaker 1: And then yes, but the fact we're still Kritrina goes,
Speaker 1: is he gay? That's kookie? So I mean at this
Speaker 1: at this point, everyone's like Paul Ruben's gay. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter to him. It doesn't it's too late.
Speaker 1: The patriarchy has ruined someone. It's true, he was even
Speaker 1: with someone like what's his face? Dancer workouts a tragedy,
Speaker 1: a tragedy, tragedy of the patriar. Absolutely and the camp
Speaker 1: of PE's Playhouse illuminated me to myself and then weirdly
Speaker 1: that allowed me to look at the ship my parents
Speaker 1: were around and producing and stuff like my mom produced
Speaker 1: a run of Lipsinka when I was seven. Do you
Speaker 1: ever lipsynco? Yes? Many times? And she showed me that
Speaker 1: she stuffed her gowns with socks and it was it
Speaker 1: was like then I understood Lipsynca, do you know, like
Speaker 1: Pee's Playhouse. Was this like gateway to understanding, like, oh,
Speaker 1: the ship that my parents are doing is cool, and
Speaker 1: like I get it. And it's fun and it's crazy
Speaker 1: and it's referential and it's for you and not for
Speaker 1: you and you and not for it's exclusive but not
Speaker 1: but populoust at the same time, it's for everybody. And
Speaker 1: so yeah, camp Camp is the culture of my soul
Speaker 1: that totally tracks And I mean this is not necessarily camp,
Speaker 1: but it sort of is in that orbit where I
Speaker 1: the first thing, one of the first things I said
Speaker 1: to you in person, is like you are so you
Speaker 1: are so Betty Davis. You you gave me that vibe
Speaker 1: not not not not that not not camp. I mean,
Speaker 1: Betty isn't Camp. She isn't well no, but now she is.
Speaker 1: Now she is in the characterizations we know of her,
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Because and Susan Srenthon and
Speaker 1: portraying but said it was hard not to do a
Speaker 1: drag queen Camp version of her because that is what
Speaker 1: everyone wants, right. But that's the thing about Camp that
Speaker 1: since I was exposed to it's so so young. I
Speaker 1: realized that I could, I could adopt a bravado and
Speaker 1: it and it be genuine to myself, that it was
Speaker 1: speaking to an essential expression rather than me being dragged inherited,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And so yeah, that's that's
Speaker 1: what I'm all about. So I have a question for you,
Speaker 1: what are your feelings on the met Gala adopting a
Speaker 1: Camp theme this year? Is that? Really? That's now? I
Speaker 1: got chills in a bad way because it's this thing
Speaker 1: of when something that is so niche and it's a
Speaker 1: powerful and its nicheness then becomes for everyone. Now we're
Speaker 1: going to have to see Kylie Jenner come out in
Speaker 1: a Camp costume. But the thing is is Camp is
Speaker 1: a really has been. Of course, this is happening because
Speaker 1: Camp has been in a very interesting place in the
Speaker 1: past few years. Because of Instagram and because of just
Speaker 1: like the increase of social media and fast fashion, people
Speaker 1: can buy camp be things without needing to really inherently
Speaker 1: search for them totally. They are everywhere. Now Camp is
Speaker 1: in a really huge shift to the point at which
Speaker 1: it's not really Camp is in a shift because I
Speaker 1: think what we know is Camp is going to change.
Speaker 1: It's going to be because it always has to subvert,
Speaker 1: it always has to be relative to something else. Yes,
Speaker 1: And it's so it's changed. It because it is camps
Speaker 1: like campus, like um, you know, Asra Miller, like wearing
Speaker 1: a gown, you know. And and the only reason that's
Speaker 1: considered camp is because he is a mainstream star acting
Speaker 1: outside of the norm, right And and this is the
Speaker 1: this is maybe controversy. I think I think it's great
Speaker 1: wearing dresses. It's it's it's you know, he should be
Speaker 1: actually loves those, Yeah, and he looks great. Um. But
Speaker 1: it's a tough place for Camp right now because everyone
Speaker 1: is checking each other to make sure we're all saying
Speaker 1: doing the right things and being like it was, operating
Speaker 1: within boxes that are welcoming or inclusive or respectful, etcetera.
Speaker 1: And now it's interesting because Camp is that one thing
Speaker 1: that was embraced by the other community and now anything
Speaker 1: that could be Camp might test that. And do you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, I think, what what's happening right now?
Speaker 1: Because Camp? I've read a lot about Camp, um and
Speaker 1: like famously obviously notes on Camp Susan Sontag, there's this
Speaker 1: other book just called Camp, that is by this British
Speaker 1: author blank really I think so, I'll give it to
Speaker 1: you if you don't, because his take on it is
Speaker 1: it's anti. It's anti was Susan Sontag said about it,
Speaker 1: which is um the interface of highl culture. His take
Speaker 1: on it is that camp is actually a state of mind.
Speaker 1: It is actually a psychology of people um testing the
Speaker 1: limit of society, of pushing it, and not camp as
Speaker 1: an aspect of pushing but not necessarily fully adopting. Famously,
Speaker 1: camp people talk about sex, but when it comes to
Speaker 1: sometimes the sexual act are completely frigid. Like that's a
Speaker 1: note he put in the book, which I thought was fabulous, fabulous,
Speaker 1: And I'm like, I love that. That's so real. And
Speaker 1: I think, while we're entering the starship enterprise, the boundaries
Speaker 1: are shifting, and therefore camp has to shift, as you're saying,
Speaker 1: and the society's boundaries are moving farther and farther and
Speaker 1: farther back, that inherently camp has to move with it.
Speaker 1: So what we know as camp is now just in
Speaker 1: aesthetic and ding dong the met Gala camp is now
Speaker 1: just an aesthetic. But I'm saying because I adhered to
Speaker 1: identifying as a camp person is no campus. We're finding
Speaker 1: the edge, we're finding the back wall, we're finding where
Speaker 1: to keep pushing, and I think we're just in a again. Culture.
Speaker 1: Isn't such a massive transition right now because we have
Speaker 1: really pushed it forward these past few years really hard,
Speaker 1: and with Trump and like it's just it's such a
Speaker 1: saturated hunt and I think people are getting zoned out.
Speaker 1: I think people are bored. I think people are not.
Speaker 1: So we're pushing now, and it's we're in a really
Speaker 1: bizarre moment. The transits. It's the transit, you know, on
Speaker 1: a more micro scale, like like it's interesting that you're
Speaker 1: saying all this stuff. And then like I was talking
Speaker 1: to Suit today at brunch and we were saying, how like,
Speaker 1: of course love Suit. Yes, well she's the the yeah,
Speaker 1: the genius um. So we were saying how I was
Speaker 1: talking about how I don't get up that much now
Speaker 1: a and then oftentimes when I do go up in
Speaker 1: l A, I'll be last. I'll be last on the lineup,
Speaker 1: And I think, well, because he'll be big energy, and
Speaker 1: I'm watching everything else like and like you know, stand
Speaker 1: up spaces and everything is still kind of still very
Speaker 1: low energy, low energy, low energy. And then there's this,
Speaker 1: you know, the kind of what's happening in New York
Speaker 1: comedy or at least in the queer comedy scene in
Speaker 1: New York, where everyone's performing, and it feels like there's
Speaker 1: like sort of a shift and attention to like performance
Speaker 1: and sort of that kind of thing where it's like
Speaker 1: I'd like to be at a show and not know
Speaker 1: what's going to happen next. Um. And I think that
Speaker 1: interest in that kind of thing is a response to
Speaker 1: being buck fucking board with you know, even straight culture
Speaker 1: becoming because Trump is camp, He's camp a room. It's
Speaker 1: it's it is unusual, Yeah, and it is bizarre that
Speaker 1: that's the story. Eatonists is like so so big, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, it's going to the point where
Speaker 1: it's like the bucket is fall exactly the bucket and
Speaker 1: I don't know what the I don't know what that's
Speaker 1: going to be like. Again, I think really Macro, I'm
Speaker 1: always thinking really huge, I'm always thinking about culture, capital c.
Speaker 1: And it's just like my sense, Pisces Moon, my sense is,
Speaker 1: you know, we're in a really a numb state right now,
Speaker 1: we're leveled out. The Mueller report was like, forget about it.
Speaker 1: I think everybody after the Muller Report was like, you
Speaker 1: gotta be kidding me. I'm out. Like I think that
Speaker 1: literally was just like, you know what, I'm out. He
Speaker 1: shouldn't he you're saying he shouldn't be there, but there's
Speaker 1: nothing we can do. I mean, it's actually brass hats,
Speaker 1: That's what it's like. And it's just it just goes.
Speaker 1: So what's the strategy now? And I just think like
Speaker 1: we're going to go. I don't know where we're gonna go,
Speaker 1: but it's going to be interesting, and I'm excited. I'm not.
Speaker 1: It's not a negative feeling I have. I don't have
Speaker 1: a negative, but you know, you know what's interesting. You
Speaker 1: know what's put us in this place where we can
Speaker 1: do nothing about a bad situation? Rules, patriarchy, rules borders,
Speaker 1: the kinds of limitations that we have in places like this,
Speaker 1: the amount of boxes we have to check to fucking
Speaker 1: do something about our hopeless situation. Yeah, the bucket is full. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I the only issue with that is that
Speaker 1: I believe Trump is very antire rules and very chaos
Speaker 1: demon and very much like release the you know, like
Speaker 1: and it's just like whoa, but it's very mad. It's
Speaker 1: literally mad Max. In fact, it is literally mad Max.
Speaker 1: And and it's just mad Max for your road. I
Speaker 1: just think I am focusing personally now back to micro
Speaker 1: is just about values, Like what does values mean? What
Speaker 1: is morals? Do morals exist? Like? Is that a real idea?
Speaker 1: And so I'm just thinking about yeah, just because of
Speaker 1: you're right, like the borders, but the like I want
Speaker 1: to have born, it's just like what someone chaotic in
Speaker 1: the center being somehow protected by people. It's like it's
Speaker 1: psychotic and it makes no sense. And so now what
Speaker 1: we have is sixteen candidates, all stepping forward, all throwing
Speaker 1: their head in the ring. Biden will have announced by
Speaker 1: the time this episode is out, we have all these people.
Speaker 1: I mean by the time this announced, but by the
Speaker 1: time this is out, two of them might have dropped out.
Speaker 1: But but to be honest, where we're at right now
Speaker 1: is I'm looking at all these people and I'm like,
Speaker 1: how do you how do you answer the cast? How
Speaker 1: do you enter the cast? And is the answer with
Speaker 1: someone who's a cipher because the big story right now
Speaker 1: and he is the big story right now. He is
Speaker 1: the big story right now. And the reason why he
Speaker 1: is hitting so hard is because he is diverse enough
Speaker 1: for people, but also relatable enough for people and just
Speaker 1: enough for everyone. But if you look at what's actually
Speaker 1: going on, his policies are very much blank slate. And
Speaker 1: so if what we're answering this all with is a
Speaker 1: blank slate, then we have a lot of work to
Speaker 1: do with him, because I do like him, and I
Speaker 1: do think it could happen, but we have to fill
Speaker 1: that slate with something that really stands for something outside
Speaker 1: of capable. He he's a cipher and that he's bare
Speaker 1: minimum and then that you can and that people can
Speaker 1: just project whatever they want on to it, and and
Speaker 1: they're projecting hope onto him because the Obama narrative is beginning,
Speaker 1: and you know what I mean, I believe it. I
Speaker 1: believe it is. I believe it is. I believe the
Speaker 1: Obama narrative, this is narrative is beginning. Where people see
Speaker 1: him and he speaks to a lot of people. He's different,
Speaker 1: he comes from a marginalized perspective like for for the
Speaker 1: most part, and he is a change and that we
Speaker 1: haven't seen him before I'm not saying he's the same power,
Speaker 1: and I'm not saying he has the same sort and
Speaker 1: the narrative and look at how cute as husband and
Speaker 1: oh there he goes speaking French and we're impressed. And
Speaker 1: you can't just be impressed. We have to something has
Speaker 1: to happen where it's like we have to either celebritize
Speaker 1: him in the way that it can compete with Trump,
Speaker 1: because I do believe the star of the election will win,
Speaker 1: and I'm scared about that because Trump is. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: I just think my personal answer is just everybody has
Speaker 1: to remind themselves about wealth. I just think I think
Speaker 1: for me personally, is like the way anyone will win
Speaker 1: is through the adaptation of unfortunately, the conversation about class.
Speaker 1: Whoever does that act vivaciously in a new way, in
Speaker 1: a way that catches our that's the person who's gonna
Speaker 1: as I think, but I think it's like it's a
Speaker 1: class thing. It really is. Obviously it should it always
Speaker 1: should be. That started happening in twenties sixteen. Obviously the
Speaker 1: rattles of that. Trump adopted it in his own vernacular.
Speaker 1: But it for me, that is that's in this lull
Speaker 1: time of we're not talking about the we're not talking
Speaker 1: about saving democracy anymore. I don't think I think that's
Speaker 1: sort of I think we have to start taking its
Speaker 1: class fascinating. It's not protecting our politicians anymore. A story
Speaker 1: came out that said that I think it was like,
Speaker 1: I'm off on this figure, but I believe it's a
Speaker 1: large number of sport they would vote for Trump instead
Speaker 1: of Elizabeth Warren. And I'm like, this is a huge problem.
Speaker 1: That's crazy. Well, it's because she didn't adopt a conversation
Speaker 1: about class fast enough to be honest, and it's also
Speaker 1: sexism obviously. Um, but yeah, the class thing is um
Speaker 1: at least also for me and growing up in like
Speaker 1: me as an artist, to be honest, it's all class
Speaker 1: for me going forward. Are you hearing this? My agent,
Speaker 1: my manager? It is? It is, it is, it is,
Speaker 1: it is. I love this, don't you know? This is
Speaker 1: as we get on the enterprise, As we get on
Speaker 1: the enterprise, and I think we're about to get on
Speaker 1: the enterprise with I don't think so. I don't think so.
Speaker 1: One of the one of the top I don't think so, honey.
Speaker 1: Moments of all time came when Ruby mccalluster stepped on
Speaker 1: stage and said, I don't think so, honey, when your
Speaker 1: boot doesn't have a silhouette from the side, and that
Speaker 1: was that was a huge moment. I could you could
Speaker 1: feel the air shift in the room. People said, this
Speaker 1: is something that I knew to be true, but no
Speaker 1: one's articulated it in this way. And and what did
Speaker 1: you do? You edify it was editing. Well, the first
Speaker 1: thing she did was slap her goddamn foot on the
Speaker 1: floor and point to her foot. So the audience, the audience,
Speaker 1: the visual experience for the audience was very powerful, and
Speaker 1: I feel that the audio visual experience was made even better.
Speaker 1: But the fact that we could hear the foot stomp
Speaker 1: on the ground in the recording, go back and listen.
Speaker 1: Do you hear that here? Ladies and gentlemen. That was
Speaker 1: the last November. Thank you very much, and we're still talking.
Speaker 1: And I'm really proud. I haven't seen in a lot
Speaker 1: of bad boots in a while. I think it, actually,
Speaker 1: I really do. I'm not trying to pat myself, but
Speaker 1: I really do think I did. I think it was
Speaker 1: a witchcraft. It was, Yeah, it was very much. Oh
Speaker 1: my god, you know, I don't I know, hot producer
Speaker 1: Imma is wearing some that's like a clog clog boot.
Speaker 1: He'll love that. I could never pull that off. Well,
Speaker 1: here we go. This is our one minute segment that
Speaker 1: we take to rant against something in culture that's not good.
Speaker 1: And we need to talk about me on mil Trina today.
Speaker 1: I have something. This is Matt Rodgers, could Trina clarities Rogers.
Speaker 1: I don't think so, honey, and it's time starts now.
Speaker 1: I don't think so, honey. Parents with a whole brood
Speaker 1: of kids that have this a name with the same
Speaker 1: first letter acceptable, especially when you have upwards of four
Speaker 1: five in the un children. Let me tell you a story.
Speaker 1: Come on, I don't think so, honey. A family I
Speaker 1: grew up with they had five children. Their names Brent
Speaker 1: Late and this is how you end up with Brocks
Speaker 1: in the world. This is why there are men out
Speaker 1: there named Brock is because we have to follow these rules, honey.
Speaker 1: And you put rules already in your nuclear family family,
Speaker 1: and we have all this. This is TACKI hunted. You know,
Speaker 1: if you have a house full of kids with all
Speaker 1: these names, you also have chats in the house, probably
Speaker 1: with the names written on them, stop it you want.
Speaker 1: Here's what I'm okay with homes that have an animal
Speaker 1: theme tying it together. I'm not okay with homes that
Speaker 1: have all these kids name with a name. And that's
Speaker 1: one minute. I don't think so, honey. And that's because
Speaker 1: if you are the fifth of five and your name
Speaker 1: is also a B, you know what people thought when
Speaker 1: they were naming you, not about your legacy, about their
Speaker 1: own legacy. That's so true. That's look. Look, look, she
Speaker 1: points to her arm and Nu Nu Keller family, nuclear family.
Speaker 1: That family is nucular family. Killer. No, he's a nuclear family.
Speaker 1: Might even said nuclear family. I'm so excited that I
Speaker 1: pronounced nuclear correctly when I jumped into Katrina. You are
Speaker 1: on has But tell me I'm wrong. Do you know
Speaker 1: his family? Absolutely? That is how Brock was when it's
Speaker 1: so true because you go Betty boo boo, Brock. We
Speaker 1: had one that's a Betty, that's a boo boo. And
Speaker 1: how many good bee names are there that aren't Brock? Sure,
Speaker 1: Bill fucking the Fans family growing up, the Cohens, Jamie,
Speaker 1: Jackie jaden See. And the thing is like at least
Speaker 1: like Joan, is it also a product is a tough one. Also, Jaden,
Speaker 1: I think it's fucked up that will under flipped because
Speaker 1: it is not its obscene. You rob your children of
Speaker 1: their own identity. It's not about their legacy, it's about yours.
Speaker 1: And I also don't like juniors. No, no, juniors. Please
Speaker 1: give your child their own name. In fact, you're them
Speaker 1: a star's name. Give them a star Beyonce. Know well,
Speaker 1: that's the same thing where you're not giving them their
Speaker 1: own identity, and it's it's relative. What did you say,
Speaker 1: why did you what did you just say? That's also
Speaker 1: if you name it, if you name a child after
Speaker 1: a celebrity. And then also, no, no, no, I'm saying
Speaker 1: you must follow in the footsteps of Matthew and Tina
Speaker 1: and name your child something like so that it can
Speaker 1: be a star. God, I thought you were saying name
Speaker 1: your child. No, but by the same token, if Beyonce's
Speaker 1: sister had been named Blanche, then I would have had
Speaker 1: an issue. But her name is so long. Did you
Speaker 1: say there was something? Did you say Katrina famously words?
Speaker 1: What did she say? Oh my god, that's beautiful, Trina,
Speaker 1: is I love this? We're happy that Katrina is here.
Speaker 1: Tonight for the night of the live shown by Baby.
Speaker 1: All Right, so this is I don't think so honey,
Speaker 1: his time will start now. I don't think so many
Speaker 1: coffee shops that have cold brup but not iced coffee,
Speaker 1: iced coffee. Okay, And look, the culture has to shift
Speaker 1: in this regard because you're not going to fucking jack
Speaker 1: me up on whatever insane sixteen hours brewing steeping process
Speaker 1: that is actually being put in some plastic now gene
Speaker 1: bullshit tub in your closet, because you trust me. I
Speaker 1: was a barista for all all of two days before
Speaker 1: I got another job. I know how how the sausage
Speaker 1: gets made, and it's disgusting and it's not acceptable. And
Speaker 1: I see you. I just want coffee that was that's
Speaker 1: been dripped brood with ice in it, and not hot
Speaker 1: coffee that's been watered down. I want coffee that's stored cold,
Speaker 1: because you're not gonna drive me insane and veer the
Speaker 1: course of my day off of its track five seconds,
Speaker 1: and you better fucking believe that I will sue all
Speaker 1: of you for all your worth once I have the capital.
Speaker 1: That's one minute. This is important to talk about because
Speaker 1: ice coffee delightful cold brew potentially another D word, dangerous.
Speaker 1: I've been on knocking on this podcast that when I
Speaker 1: have one cold brew, I become Scarlet Johnson in the
Speaker 1: film Lucy Yes, Killing Machine, and I need to be
Speaker 1: drinking something bowen, especially the writers from something I've just hell,
Speaker 1: I need a beverage to And this is what I've done,
Speaker 1: lady in gentlemen, as I live and breathe, I have
Speaker 1: switched to iced americanos, thank you, thank you, because it's
Speaker 1: just too much much. But I am cond of suffer
Speaker 1: the same thing as hot coffee with ice on it.
Speaker 1: Absolutely not, because it's just a little a little bit
Speaker 1: of hot liquid, which is an espresso and it's already
Speaker 1: it's already water anyway, yes, And it's just like it's
Speaker 1: it's so much. The cold brew fetish is bananas, cuckoo cuckoo,
Speaker 1: Congkong like it's like it's like it is. Cold brew
Speaker 1: is a product of of asculinity and colonialism. I'll tell
Speaker 1: you something. I'm going on that, but when I want
Speaker 1: to hear and then i'll counterpoint, because I think cold
Speaker 1: brew is a product of liberalism gone too far, true true,
Speaker 1: which is colonialism gone too far, we're all the same team.
Speaker 1: But coffee, I mean, nobody talks about with these beans
Speaker 1: come from well, I mean that is that is one
Speaker 1: aspect to it, of course, and we can't even get
Speaker 1: into that even even even if it places as fair
Speaker 1: trade as you know, think coffee. This is this is
Speaker 1: how cold brew is colonialism. It just it is not
Speaker 1: a product. It just it is a cultural um. It
Speaker 1: is some Any dangerous, destructive idea is just language. It's
Speaker 1: just distorted words that are tied to concepts that where
Speaker 1: the linguistic thing is that the concept doesn't exist without
Speaker 1: the word. And this is what it is. Someone said,
Speaker 1: this is a new invention called cold brew, and it's beautiful,
Speaker 1: and this is how it's different, and here's how we
Speaker 1: can push it and market it and then it fully
Speaker 1: fully just displaced ice coffee. Do you know what I'm saying? Displaced?
Speaker 1: And that is just colonialism. It is true. I love
Speaker 1: ice coffee and you can't find it in Amerry. You cannot,
Speaker 1: not anymore. Honey, go to France. I mean, like, where
Speaker 1: can we get a nice coffee where? I think the
Speaker 1: last one I had was Montreal. There you go both
Speaker 1: the name of the greatest city in the world, and
Speaker 1: Montreal just is eleven. London is twelve. I didn't even
Speaker 1: say Montreal because actually I have breaking news. Montreal has
Speaker 1: superseded being a city and has become a phenomenon. Katrina,
Speaker 1: you are driving the Enterprise today. See I am at
Speaker 1: the hell move over, Mr Kirk. I don't even call
Speaker 1: you your name, captain, captain culture. Captain Piccard is queer cultured.
Speaker 1: Picard is queer culture. But didn't Piccard? Wasn't Piccard captain
Speaker 1: of the Enterprise. I'm unwilling to answer that question. No,
Speaker 1: but wasn't. The first captain was Kirk. First first captain
Speaker 1: was Kirk. If we're doing O G. Cannon Star Trek,
Speaker 1: we always are. Not famously, I'm famously next gen, but
Speaker 1: I'm so new to this anyway, We're gonna move on.
Speaker 1: This is Ruby McAll I don't think so, honey, Ruby Oh.
Speaker 1: I can't wait for this. This is Ruby mc callisters.
Speaker 1: I don't think so many of her time starts now.
Speaker 1: I don't think so, honey. People not saying murderer before
Speaker 1: they say Billy Joel Oh is a murderer. He killed
Speaker 1: somebody with a car. Do you hy Long Island hunting.
Speaker 1: Brandy cannot catch a break. Yes, she killed someone in
Speaker 1: a car that was an accident. She is a legend
Speaker 1: and she cannot escape this name. You know who else
Speaker 1: killed the car? The car Matthew Roger. He cannot go
Speaker 1: down the street without someone saying a murderer in a car.
Speaker 1: You know who can bloated semi talented songwriter be Billy Joel.
Speaker 1: He's so out MSG every single fucking night I hear
Speaker 1: people on the street singing is goddamn song, not even
Speaker 1: knowing he is a murderer. Capital next time you hear
Speaker 1: piano man, no, it is an okay less queer version
Speaker 1: of an Elton John song written by a goddamn motherfucking
Speaker 1: murder text MSG in the morning, I feel like playing
Speaker 1: and he can. That's Bull on his hands on the
Speaker 1: street island, you know what I mean? I mean like
Speaker 1: Brandy shouldn't be called the murder ever, and neither should
Speaker 1: not do Brodger, But White does the past. Can you
Speaker 1: just tell us what exactly went that with with Billy Joel?
Speaker 1: Because I didn't know that, and he was and somebody died,
Speaker 1: someone fully died, and nobody knows, nobody talks about it.
Speaker 1: Nobody knows. The other week, I was in a pizza
Speaker 1: strap yeah icon I love. I don't recognize the word pizza.
Speaker 1: A lot of pizza store and I was with famous
Speaker 1: Lee David Goldberg. Yes, and we were, you know, talking, talking, talking,
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. There's a girl who sits down. She
Speaker 1: was already making you know, she's already little too big
Speaker 1: for the context. She was like boogy jogging to a
Speaker 1: disco song in the pizza store. It was just too much.
Speaker 1: And it was like, it's late, and we know you're
Speaker 1: from out of town. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Like you stop them right exactly exactly. It was like
Speaker 1: one and more, it's just like stopping. Then she sits down.
Speaker 1: She starts singing Billy Joel on top of her lugs.
Speaker 1: And I turned to David and I go, she's my nightmare.
Speaker 1: And then she hears me, come on, I love that,
Speaker 1: and she goes, what did you say? And I said,
Speaker 1: you know what? I turned her. You know what I
Speaker 1: said something mean about you And it's because you're seeing
Speaker 1: Billy Joel right now and he is a murderer. And
Speaker 1: I go, he is a murderer. And I know for
Speaker 1: a fact you didn't know that. What did she say?
Speaker 1: She couldn't. But she goes, wait, you don't like your
Speaker 1: making fun of me because I'm sinking along with Billy Joel.
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, yeah, I actually am. And I said
Speaker 1: I never said I was nice. You don't know who
Speaker 1: I am. And yes, I'm a snob, oh Ruby, And
Speaker 1: I just and I was just honest. I just had
Speaker 1: to be honest. I didn't want her to make her
Speaker 1: feel necessarily bad. I just wanted to her to see
Speaker 1: my point of view. And you want her to go
Speaker 1: up and go over and look it up later because
Speaker 1: guess what is probably on the internet for everyone's I'm
Speaker 1: sure it's like any other Kennedy's. Sorry Tree, No, I
Speaker 1: cannot get enough of Never Forget Chap. A critic also,
Speaker 1: I mean, is it like a Laura Bush thing where
Speaker 1: Laura Bush Laura Laura also vehicular manslaughter? Are you Stori? Yes, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: Well we have to look into every case of vehicular
Speaker 1: manslaughter ow thing. We really do well do a special
Speaker 1: episode the next time because of that, well through every
Speaker 1: case of celebrity vehicular manslaughter. That's show that's done that.
Speaker 1: I mean, like a lot of people everyone's addicted to it.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like it's everywhere. But again again, Matthew Roderick,
Speaker 1: he goes Matthew Roderick, actor murderer, Like that's how people
Speaker 1: and this poor guy, I mean, very complicated figure. I
Speaker 1: could get into it, but I won't. He I have
Speaker 1: questions about him too, I really do, big, big, huge questions,
Speaker 1: very much star Trek questions for him. But but you know,
Speaker 1: despite my personal feelings about him, that's an intense you know,
Speaker 1: it's intense to have that on your title. Brandy Again,
Speaker 1: Brandy is an icon star angel, one of the best
Speaker 1: thingers ever the world so much and like I just
Speaker 1: can't live it down. You can't live it down. Crazy
Speaker 1: unfair and the fact that Billy Joel has completely escaped
Speaker 1: this again, it's just the patriarchy. It's the patriarchy. And
Speaker 1: and also it's it's it's honestly what it is. What
Speaker 1: it is. It's his fans, which are probably largely white
Speaker 1: man and white culture and not wanting to give him up.
Speaker 1: And it's your kind of same way with Michael Jackson. Now,
Speaker 1: well with Michael Jackson, that's interesting. I mean when you
Speaker 1: hear man in the mirror on the radio. Now, are
Speaker 1: you're not like, well, okay, White, Josh Sharp shivers, White shivers.
Speaker 1: But Josh Sharp pointing me to this episode of The
Speaker 1: Daily where one of the co hosts of Still Processing
Speaker 1: talks about this, talks about how he's like, it might
Speaker 1: be impossible to fully cancel Michael Jackson just because he's
Speaker 1: someone so simon who just proliferated culture in every possible way. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that he like invented what we know of as
Speaker 1: pop music. So even if you're listening to Rihanna in essence,
Speaker 1: you are also hearing the legacy of Michael Jackson. And
Speaker 1: I loved that take of it. I truly did. And
Speaker 1: it's so much more, and I'm doing it such an
Speaker 1: injustice by repeating it back, by paraphrasing it, but like
Speaker 1: there's so much nuance to his argument, and it's just like, oh, ship,
Speaker 1: he might be right. Yeah, yeah, he has a point.
Speaker 1: So anyway, that's that's that's my little hot take, of
Speaker 1: which there have been so many. I think this is
Speaker 1: one of my favorites. There's nothing more I love than
Speaker 1: to finish an episode and called canon because it just
Speaker 1: means the legacy has been added to every single time record.
Speaker 1: That's our legacy. Well we can invite someone like Ruby
Speaker 1: into the studio and so it's not only yes to
Speaker 1: the legacy, but and she has given something to the legacy,
Speaker 1: which is she has given life and of voice to Katrina.
Speaker 1: So what are you literally doing now? I'm on tour
Speaker 1: with Sarah Sherman. I'm you know, I am doing some acting.
Speaker 1: I'm doing a lot of acting right now. So fascinating,
Speaker 1: so fascinating. My podcast with Max Witter chuck it out
Speaker 1: where like it's very hard to produce, so it's not
Speaker 1: very consistent, but but it's wonderful Cannon and um. But
Speaker 1: and also I have famously a fashion project called Sophia
Speaker 1: Paris that will come out very soon, a new collect
Speaker 1: I can't we we thank you and praise you, thank you,
Speaker 1: praise as do I as I do, I do, I
Speaker 1: do do I This episode and the Pisces Greg Greg
Speaker 1: get Leo finished every episode with a song which is
Speaker 1: at Bowen and Ruby's demand. Okay, I'm stunting with the
Speaker 1: man in the mirror. How did you feel? How did
Speaker 1: you feel? You didn't feel good? Did you how did
Speaker 1: you feel? I mean, that's not its best song, So
Speaker 1: what's his best song too? Honestly, this is a hot
Speaker 1: shape sing it. I want to rock video that. This
Speaker 1: is like that, I like you do your your favorite song.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I don't know. I feel like it's
Speaker 1: like I'm pelling's not my lover, She's just take girl.
Speaker 1: That also in context, Billy, she is not. She's just
Speaker 1: a girl. She's just a girl. Like it's like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, your beard, your beards are the kids think
Speaker 1: about the think no one's going to save you when
Speaker 1: the beasts is about to stroke. Oh my god, you're
Speaker 1: not alone. I am here with you. Okay, we can't
Speaker 1: by by. This has been a Forever Dog production executive
Speaker 1: produced by Brett Baham, Joe Silio, and Alex Ramsey. For
Speaker 1: more original podcasts, please visit Forever Dog Podcasts dot com
Speaker 1: and subscribe to our shows on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or
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Speaker 1: at Forever Dog Team, and liking our page on Facebook.