WEBVTT - Colin Blunstone 0:00:08.640 --> 0:00:12.680 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Searts Podcast. 0:00:13.400 --> 0:00:17.560 My guest today is Colin Blumstone, lead singer of The 0:00:17.680 --> 0:00:21.800 Zombies and so Much Moork. Colin, you just said you 0:00:22.280 --> 0:00:24.440 realize you have allergies. Tell me about that. 0:00:24.800 --> 0:00:28.440 Well, just know, I've been forty eight hours in Los Angeles. 0:00:28.640 --> 0:00:31.840 I've realized I don't know anything about allergies. Is it 0:00:31.960 --> 0:00:35.960 hay fever or whatever. But I just realized I do 0:00:36.080 --> 0:00:39.440 suffer from that. And I was just going to apologize 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:43.080 to you in case I started sneezing while we're doing this, 0:00:43.760 --> 0:00:46.159 while we're doing this interview. That was all I was 0:00:46.200 --> 0:00:48.239 going to say, was if I start sneezing, I've just 0:00:48.320 --> 0:00:50.440 realized that I have this problem. 0:00:50.640 --> 0:00:53.199 You know, there are pills for that now, but it 0:00:53.240 --> 0:00:57.400 begs the question, why would you not have a problem 0:00:57.440 --> 0:00:59.720 in England, a different weather, different thing. 0:01:00.640 --> 0:01:03.600 You know, I think I have had this problem, but 0:01:03.720 --> 0:01:08.480 I've thought, for some strange reason, I've thought I've got 0:01:08.520 --> 0:01:12.840 a cold rather than I've got allergies. It's just the 0:01:12.880 --> 0:01:18.440 realization that, yeah, hay fever affects me. And I'm seventy 0:01:18.520 --> 0:01:21.600 nine years old and I've just found that out, which 0:01:21.640 --> 0:01:22.640 is a bit embarrassing. 0:01:22.680 --> 0:01:24.720 Really. How's your health otherwise? 0:01:25.480 --> 0:01:30.720 Actually pretty good. I have to say the usual aches 0:01:30.840 --> 0:01:35.280 and pains that people coming into the autumn of their 0:01:35.319 --> 0:01:38.240 careers will suffer from, but generally speaking pretty good. 0:01:38.240 --> 0:01:42.760 Actually, yeah, okay, you know, we are a generation they 0:01:42.840 --> 0:01:45.800 thought we were going to rule till we die, but 0:01:45.920 --> 0:01:50.000 we are going to die. Okay. So I found I 0:01:50.120 --> 0:01:53.120 turned sixty and it was like I've seen the trick. 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:57.000 But once I turned seventy, it's a whole new thing. 0:01:57.480 --> 0:01:59.640 So what's your perspective of aging? 0:02:01.640 --> 0:02:04.639 Well, I think my wife always says it's just a number. 0:02:04.720 --> 0:02:06.800 If I try to talk about it with her, It's 0:02:06.880 --> 0:02:09.799 just a number. Just get on with it. I think. 0:02:10.520 --> 0:02:13.520 Actually that's important things to just keep busy, you know, 0:02:13.919 --> 0:02:18.520 find something that intrigues you, interests you, and throw yourself 0:02:18.560 --> 0:02:21.359 into it. That's what I would say, and that's what 0:02:21.400 --> 0:02:24.880 I try and do. I love music. I'm always trying 0:02:24.880 --> 0:02:27.960 to write. I'll record at the drop of a hat, 0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:30.280 and I'll tour at the drop of the hat too. 0:02:31.680 --> 0:02:35.239 I love doing that and as a complete alternative, it's 0:02:35.320 --> 0:02:37.600 just great. When I'm not working, I love to be 0:02:37.639 --> 0:02:38.680 at home with my family. 0:02:39.560 --> 0:02:42.960 So Rod Hargen had a stroke. He's not hitting the 0:02:43.040 --> 0:02:47.160 road anymore, that's right. So to what degree are you working, 0:02:47.320 --> 0:02:48.840 whether it be live or recording. 0:02:49.160 --> 0:02:53.359 Well, I've always had a solo band, I'll be honest 0:02:53.400 --> 0:02:56.000 with you. I've never said this to Rod, but I 0:02:56.080 --> 0:03:00.320 wondered how long he would keep touring because I was 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:05.040 very successful songwriter. He's been a very successful producer in 0:03:05.120 --> 0:03:08.960 his time. He really doesn't need to be getting out 0:03:09.000 --> 0:03:11.600 on the road and not sleeping and all the things 0:03:11.639 --> 0:03:13.120 that go with being out on the road. But he 0:03:13.240 --> 0:03:17.080 loves playing. And we got together in nineteen ninety nine, 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:21.560 and I wondered how long he would keep touring, and 0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:24.880 we've kept it going to twenty twenty four. It was 0:03:25.639 --> 0:03:30.080 last year that he had his stroke. But I wondered 0:03:30.080 --> 0:03:33.480 how long he would keep touring, and so I always 0:03:33.600 --> 0:03:36.400 kept a solo bang going. I've sort of had that 0:03:37.280 --> 0:03:42.000 tucked up my sleeve, and so now I slipped back listen. 0:03:42.040 --> 0:03:44.320 I would have loved to kept this Zombisky for as long. 0:03:44.400 --> 0:03:47.720 We always said that for as long as we're physically capable, 0:03:47.920 --> 0:03:50.040 we want to keep this guying. We're having such a 0:03:50.040 --> 0:03:54.160 great time, and also it's so unexpected. The band finished 0:03:54.160 --> 0:03:57.880 in sixty seven. It's insane. What are we doing playing now? 0:03:58.280 --> 0:04:01.000 I don't understand. It's a mystery, but I don't have 0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:03.760 to understand it. I love it, so let's keep going. 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:06.800 But I always get when there's a break. I would 0:04:06.920 --> 0:04:09.880 I would tour and record with my solo ban which 0:04:09.880 --> 0:04:13.800 I must admit. The band has changed personnel over the years, 0:04:13.840 --> 0:04:16.599 as these band as bands do, but it's a really 0:04:16.720 --> 0:04:18.920 nice group of guys at the moment. I've just come 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:22.520 back from Germany and Holland. Just a few days before 0:04:22.960 --> 0:04:24.920 I came over here and I was with my solo man. 0:04:25.080 --> 0:04:29.360 It was great, playing a completely different program to what 0:04:29.560 --> 0:04:31.520 I would play with the Zombies. I play. She's not 0:04:31.560 --> 0:04:35.200 their time of the season. This will be our year. 0:04:36.000 --> 0:04:39.800 That's about it. Otherwise it's completely different tunes and it's 0:04:39.839 --> 0:04:43.599 it's nice to to break things up and do you 0:04:43.640 --> 0:04:45.320 know a completely different repertoire? 0:04:46.080 --> 0:04:49.680 So you playing in Germany? Do they know your solo 0:04:49.720 --> 0:04:50.799 material the audience. 0:04:50.920 --> 0:04:53.480 I wish you hadn't asked me about Germany. Actually, it 0:04:53.600 --> 0:04:56.159 is not one of my not one of my great 0:04:56.920 --> 0:05:01.279 success areas some doing some don't should we say that? 0:05:01.760 --> 0:05:05.440 But if you wishes mentioned Holland, it's a different, different 0:05:05.480 --> 0:05:08.200 kind of fish. It always intrigues me. These countries are 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:10.000 right next door to one another, or you can say 0:05:10.279 --> 0:05:14.640 Holland and Belgium. They have different hits, they know different artists, 0:05:14.680 --> 0:05:16.839 and you have to be aware of where you're going. 0:05:17.279 --> 0:05:19.560 What do they know any of your songs? And if 0:05:19.560 --> 0:05:22.080 they do, what songs are they because they'll be expecting 0:05:22.120 --> 0:05:24.200 to hear them. And in Holland, I've had a lot 0:05:24.240 --> 0:05:27.400 of hits and it's always a thrill to go back there. 0:05:28.279 --> 0:05:32.360 Let's say you're playing like someplace like Germany where the 0:05:32.400 --> 0:05:37.080 audience doesn't know all your material. How do you perform 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:39.520 such that you win them over and keep their attention. 0:05:39.720 --> 0:05:41.080 Well, I think the first thing is to have a 0:05:41.120 --> 0:05:43.159 bit of a pep talk before you go on stage 0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:47.360 and you just say, okay, come on, guys, this we've 0:05:47.400 --> 0:05:49.159 really got to pull it out of the bag this time. 0:05:49.160 --> 0:05:51.320 Attle bit like with the sports team, you know, and 0:05:51.360 --> 0:05:54.360 say it's going to be tough. We know that it's 0:05:54.440 --> 0:05:58.640 going to be tough, but I think an audience always 0:05:58.680 --> 0:06:02.560 appreciates a hundred effort. I mean, listen, you have to 0:06:02.640 --> 0:06:05.880 have a degree of professionalist and you have to understand 0:06:05.880 --> 0:06:08.560 your instrument or be able to sing the songs. Of 0:06:08.600 --> 0:06:13.120 course you do, but they appreciate one hundred percent commitment 0:06:13.200 --> 0:06:16.279 and you can usually bring people around if you go 0:06:16.320 --> 0:06:18.920 out there and give one hundred percent. That's the best 0:06:19.000 --> 0:06:19.480 you can do. 0:06:20.560 --> 0:06:25.800 Okay. As you mentioned earlier, Rod wrote some of the 0:06:25.960 --> 0:06:30.320 hits alone and in addition had a success with his 0:06:31.520 --> 0:06:34.680 band eponymously named Origent. But you were not a member 0:06:34.720 --> 0:06:39.280 of the Money tends to be in publishing. So are 0:06:39.320 --> 0:06:43.160 you working because you have to or because you want 0:06:43.240 --> 0:06:44.159 to or both? 0:06:46.000 --> 0:06:48.320 Well, in the Original band, I was very much working 0:06:48.400 --> 0:06:53.280 because I had to, And you're right. I think I 0:06:53.320 --> 0:06:57.320 think that the writers should of course be paid in full, 0:06:57.720 --> 0:07:01.800 and you know I'm I'm not in any way after 0:07:01.880 --> 0:07:04.200 their money. I always say, if you haven't got a 0:07:04.200 --> 0:07:06.440 good song, you can all pack up and go home. 0:07:06.520 --> 0:07:09.160 This is before you start. You're wasting your time if 0:07:09.200 --> 0:07:11.840 you haven't got good songs. So we should treasure and 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:15.000 nurture the writers. And we had two great writers in 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:17.800 the Zombies and Rod Argent and Chris White, and we 0:07:18.440 --> 0:07:22.360 were extremely lucky to have them. It does happen, though, 0:07:22.400 --> 0:07:26.720 that their income stream is completely separate to the band 0:07:27.360 --> 0:07:30.120 and of course they're living a different life to the 0:07:30.200 --> 0:07:33.880 three non writers, and that was one of the reasons 0:07:33.920 --> 0:07:37.000 why the band finished. That the three non writers had 0:07:37.040 --> 0:07:41.120 no money, so it was tough. Over the years, I've 0:07:41.160 --> 0:07:44.680 managed to establish a career, so I'm fortunate enough now 0:07:44.680 --> 0:07:47.360 that no, I don't have to work, but I love it. 0:07:47.560 --> 0:07:49.720 And also at the back of my mind, I'm thinking, 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:52.600 at this time in my life, if I was to stop, 0:07:53.240 --> 0:07:56.360 it would be very hard to start up again. And 0:07:56.800 --> 0:07:59.760 that's a motivation in itself. I think, you know, I'm 0:07:59.760 --> 0:08:02.160 going to be in my eighties soon. I'm not going 0:08:02.200 --> 0:08:05.160 to have a gap and come back at eighty five. 0:08:05.200 --> 0:08:08.680 It's it's not going to happen, So I want to 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:11.560 keep it going. You know what does it use it 0:08:11.640 --> 0:08:12.200 or lose it? 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:15.840 Right? Okay, you have a new documentary. We'll get to 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:18.720 that in a second, but it talks about when the 0:08:18.800 --> 0:08:22.760 Zombies break up. You get a job an insurance office, 0:08:23.000 --> 0:08:26.240 and it goes through your ups and downs. You go back, 0:08:26.320 --> 0:08:30.320 you record under Neil MacArthur. Since that time, have you 0:08:30.400 --> 0:08:31.840 been forced to get a day job? 0:08:32.320 --> 0:08:35.319 Oh no, no, no, no, no no, I mean from 0:08:35.400 --> 0:08:39.880 the time a little bit after my Neil MacArthur episode. 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:44.160 I went back to my real name, and I had 0:08:44.440 --> 0:08:48.920 regular hits for the next twenty something years, and then 0:08:48.960 --> 0:08:51.360 there was a bit of a drought. The music business 0:08:51.400 --> 0:08:54.160 is peaks and troughs. You know, you've got to learn 0:08:54.200 --> 0:08:57.000 how to get through those. I think you need to 0:08:57.080 --> 0:09:01.320 have a degree of musicality, of course, but also you 0:09:01.440 --> 0:09:04.160 need to have tenacity. You have to learn how to survive, 0:09:04.280 --> 0:09:07.480 I think in the music business. I hope that doesn't sound. 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:08.880 Too no, no, that sounds to. 0:09:10.440 --> 0:09:14.160 You know, well, there's going to be except for a 0:09:14.880 --> 0:09:17.680 minute percentage at the top of the business. You know, 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:21.720 you know, the big names. Apart from them, you're going 0:09:21.760 --> 0:09:23.920 to have struggles, and you've got to learn how to 0:09:23.960 --> 0:09:27.760 get through those struggles and stay positive and stay energized 0:09:28.400 --> 0:09:31.120 when when it seems the world's against you. You have 0:09:31.200 --> 0:09:33.720 to do that. I'm sure that's happened to me over 0:09:33.760 --> 0:09:34.199 the years. 0:09:35.280 --> 0:09:40.200 Okay, so okay, let's break it down. Your solo records 0:09:41.240 --> 0:09:44.280 were not commercially successful in the US. 0:09:44.760 --> 0:09:46.520 They certainly weren't, so. 0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:50.680 You know, they were successful elsewhere, so it wasn't a 0:09:50.720 --> 0:09:53.520 matter of not being in the grooves. Were you aware 0:09:53.559 --> 0:09:56.120 of that time, were you frustrated. Why do you think 0:09:56.160 --> 0:09:58.080 they weren't successful in the States. 0:09:59.240 --> 0:10:02.000 I didn't think they've fitted in any format that might 0:10:02.040 --> 0:10:03.839 be something to do with it. I mean, my first 0:10:04.080 --> 0:10:07.400 of album, A lot of that album features a string 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:11.640 quartet with wonderful string arrangements by Chris Gunning, just like 0:10:12.040 --> 0:10:18.800 Bartok esque arrangements, And for some reason radio in the 0:10:18.920 --> 0:10:24.800 UK accepted it. But I don't fully understand why they did, 0:10:24.880 --> 0:10:28.400 because there's nothing else like that. But it didn't work 0:10:28.559 --> 0:10:33.040 in America, and I never quite got a level of 0:10:33.080 --> 0:10:36.880 acceptance with the American media, particularly radio. 0:10:37.480 --> 0:10:41.920 And do you think it's possibly a lack of effort 0:10:42.080 --> 0:10:46.320 by the label or a manager, or that's just the breaks. 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:48.640 Well, at the end of the day, I think it's 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:50.600 just the breaks, isn't it. I mean, I'm not going 0:10:50.679 --> 0:10:54.840 to start pushing responsibility onto other people, a little bit 0:10:54.880 --> 0:10:57.640 of everyone, maybe including me. I mean, I don't think 0:10:57.679 --> 0:11:01.640 I really knew how to how did it go about 0:11:01.640 --> 0:11:05.200 things properly? You know, it's very dissipated everything I did. 0:11:06.600 --> 0:11:09.720 I don't think I still don't really understand the business 0:11:09.960 --> 0:11:13.160 at all, especially considering I've been in it so long. 0:11:14.480 --> 0:11:18.960 But I think that sometimes you know, certainly management could 0:11:19.000 --> 0:11:21.679 have been a bit better. The Zombies have been very lucky. 0:11:21.760 --> 0:11:25.839 They've they've fallen in with a very wonderful management company, 0:11:25.840 --> 0:11:28.760 and I think that's when things started to turn round 0:11:28.800 --> 0:11:32.320 for the second incarnation of the Zombies, when we signed 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:34.959 with the Rocks, a new management company. 0:11:35.600 --> 0:11:39.400 Okay, you talked about the ups and downs and surviving. 0:11:40.440 --> 0:11:44.480 How do you survive emotionally and financially? I mean, you've 0:11:44.520 --> 0:11:48.400 had most people tend to have one peak, that's it. Okay, 0:11:48.679 --> 0:11:52.280 you had multiple peaks. You had peak with zombies, peak 0:11:52.320 --> 0:11:56.200 working under another name, peak working under your name. Then 0:11:56.360 --> 0:11:59.560 things lie out and then the zombies come back. How 0:11:59.600 --> 0:12:02.280 do you handle would financially and emotionally. 0:12:03.400 --> 0:12:09.640 Well, Financially it is tricky at times. You have to 0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:13.080 just cut back on what you spend. You know, you 0:12:13.200 --> 0:12:16.680 have to live at very what people wouldn't think that 0:12:17.200 --> 0:12:21.839 people in contemporary music would lift that kind of lifestyle. 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:24.440 I mean there have been times when in the winter 0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:27.559 I wouldn't be able to put the heat on, I'd 0:12:27.600 --> 0:12:31.920 go to bed to keep warm. What age that would 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:35.839 have been when I was probably forty or something like that, 0:12:37.040 --> 0:12:42.199 maybe in the mid eight I think the mid eighties 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:46.840 were really bad for me. But what really saved me, 0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:50.840 I think, was that every so many years, quite possibly, 0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:55.000 when I might be thinking I've got to find something else, 0:12:55.400 --> 0:12:59.320 something would come along. And none of these records charted 0:12:59.360 --> 0:13:03.120 in America. So it's something in some ways it makes 0:13:03.120 --> 0:13:06.679 it more difficult to explain. But every four or five 0:13:06.800 --> 0:13:10.240 years I would be involved in a big record and 0:13:10.760 --> 0:13:14.760 that would bring the energy back, bring the self belief back, 0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:16.880 and you'd start again. It's just sort of a cycle, 0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:19.160 isn't it really, And you try to hang on to 0:13:19.320 --> 0:13:22.160 this bit of success while you can, but it's like 0:13:22.240 --> 0:13:26.400 trying to hold sand. You know you're desperately you can 0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:28.839 see it or draining out of your hand as you 0:13:28.920 --> 0:13:33.400 go along. And then the cycle goes on, and then 0:13:33.440 --> 0:13:37.600 I would find myself. The two things I used to 0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:40.920 do when things are really bad. And this sounds a 0:13:40.960 --> 0:13:44.160 little bit lightweight, but this is what I used to do. 0:13:44.760 --> 0:13:47.360 I'd get my address book and i'd start at a 0:13:48.480 --> 0:13:50.199 and I'd just go all the way through it to 0:13:50.360 --> 0:13:53.640 like and I always found someone who wanted to talk 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:57.520 about maybe, yeah, just could there be a project there? 0:13:57.679 --> 0:13:59.840 Why don't we go together and have a chat? Always 0:14:01.720 --> 0:14:04.600 the other thing I would do, which is even perhaps 0:14:04.679 --> 0:14:08.520 a little stranger is I would get in the bath, 0:14:09.640 --> 0:14:12.040 because have you ever noticed when you get in the 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:13.320 bath the phone rings. 0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:16.840 I noticed when I get in the shower. That's what 0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:18.600 I have all my clear thinking. 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:24.680 Well as far as but if you get into a bath, 0:14:24.800 --> 0:14:28.480 I guarantee the phone will ring. And that was my 0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:32.120 last My last resort would be again in the bath 0:14:32.240 --> 0:14:34.320 at the phone would ring, and I just hope it's 0:14:34.880 --> 0:14:35.960 the offer of some work. 0:14:36.680 --> 0:14:39.080 Okay, So let's say you're going through your address book 0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:43.120 A Z, Yeah, you call me up. How hard a 0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:45.160 pitch would it be? How would you get to the point? 0:14:45.400 --> 0:14:49.320 Oh no, we'd be very conversational. What have you been doing? 0:14:50.000 --> 0:14:52.440 Tell me what you've been doing? Do you know anyone? 0:14:52.520 --> 0:14:57.600 I know anything I can grab hold of here? You're written, 0:14:57.600 --> 0:15:02.640 any songs? You know any projects? Anybody needs some singing. 0:15:03.360 --> 0:15:05.880 But I wouldn't say it in those words. I would 0:15:05.920 --> 0:15:10.640 just saying, how's things, what you been doing? Anything I 0:15:10.640 --> 0:15:11.760 can get involved in? 0:15:12.800 --> 0:15:15.520 But you would ultimately put it. 0:15:15.440 --> 0:15:18.200 Out there in a very subtle way. 0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:20.840 But the person on the other end could miss it. 0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:28.600 I hope not. Otherwise I'm wasting a time calling him. 0:15:26.640 --> 0:15:29.880 Okay, how about going to see people in person that 0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:32.360 were not in your address book, saying, well, maybe I 0:15:32.480 --> 0:15:35.320 have to go to London hang out. Maybe i'll bump 0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:36.000 into something. 0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:39.160 I'm not so good at that. Years ago, when I 0:15:39.200 --> 0:15:42.000 was younger, I would even just going to London is 0:15:42.760 --> 0:15:44.520 I used to live in the center of London, and 0:15:44.560 --> 0:15:48.640 I think I just sort of kind of London's wonderful, 0:15:48.680 --> 0:15:51.320 you know, But as you get older, it's it's frantic, 0:15:51.440 --> 0:15:57.200 it's full of people, it's very noisy, and I find 0:15:57.240 --> 0:16:02.040 it quite challenging just to go to London, let alone 0:16:02.160 --> 0:16:05.320 go to meet people. No, I'm not very good socially, 0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:07.680 and i'd tell you another reason why. It might be 0:16:08.160 --> 0:16:11.880 if you're in a band, you're used to people coming 0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:16.320 to you socially, and that happened to me a lot 0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:18.920 in my formative years. So when I was a teenager, 0:16:20.000 --> 0:16:22.800 we're playing, people would come up. This sounds like such 0:16:22.800 --> 0:16:25.800 a silly thing to say. I find it hard to 0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:30.440 go up and talk to people, and I'm embarrassed to 0:16:30.480 --> 0:16:32.880 say it, but I do. And so I'm not very 0:16:32.920 --> 0:16:37.480 good at, you know, circulating and meeting people in music 0:16:37.520 --> 0:16:40.200 business circles. I'd go to something like that, and I 0:16:40.200 --> 0:16:42.880 would stand in the corner all on my own and 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:46.160 just sulk out of the door. Eventually when no one 0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:46.760 speaks to me. 0:16:46.840 --> 0:16:49.560 So okay, So let's say you're home now with your wife, 0:16:49.600 --> 0:16:52.800 and your wife says, hey, you know someone invited us. 0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:55.160 Let's go. Are you going to say, ok, let me 0:16:55.160 --> 0:16:57.640 get ready? You're going to say, I don't think I 0:16:57.720 --> 0:16:58.240 want to go? 0:16:59.080 --> 0:17:02.120 Well, I'm afraid yeah. It would be the second I 0:17:02.160 --> 0:17:04.640 al would say how much do you want to go? 0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:06.760 How much do you want to go? Trying what's a 0:17:06.760 --> 0:17:09.280 put too much pressure on them? How much do you 0:17:09.359 --> 0:17:11.159 want to go? And she said I really would like 0:17:11.240 --> 0:17:13.080 to go? I said, okay, let's go. 0:17:20.960 --> 0:17:25.000 Okay, let's go back a step back. When the Zombies 0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:30.040 had their original hits, recording contracts were horrific in terms 0:17:30.040 --> 0:17:33.479 of the percentage the acts got. In addition, as we 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:37.600 established earlier, most of the money is in publishing. Have 0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:40.800 you ever gotten a royalty on a record, whether it 0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:42.720 be the Zombies or anything else? 0:17:43.680 --> 0:17:46.879 I have, not on many, I hasten to add, but 0:17:46.960 --> 0:17:50.520 I have, and some very healthy ones, but only on 0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:55.480 a few. It's mostly the Zombies. The Zombies sell a 0:17:55.600 --> 0:17:59.200 lot of requords. There's a big mystery in the Zombies. 0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:03.760 I don't Okay, So you're a member of a band, 0:18:04.320 --> 0:18:07.600 there's five people in the band and you have a 0:18:07.640 --> 0:18:10.600 shitty deal. Was the deal renegotiated at some point? I 0:18:10.600 --> 0:18:13.800 think there's a lot of it. Again, I'm embarrassed to 0:18:13.840 --> 0:18:17.080 say this. I'm not sure I fully understand everything that happened. 0:18:17.119 --> 0:18:19.040 But what I will tell you is we didn't sign 0:18:19.119 --> 0:18:21.600 to a record label in the sixties. We signed to 0:18:21.600 --> 0:18:24.560 a production company and they signed to the record label. 0:18:24.840 --> 0:18:30.800 So all of our masters reverted to us. Oh that 0:18:30.880 --> 0:18:34.879 made a huge difference. Okay, you know a lot of 0:18:34.960 --> 0:18:38.280 acts made deal sixties or seventies. It was a standard provision. 0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:40.600 You get twenty five years, you get the record back, 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:43.440 the Errol Smith, a lot of other racks to get 0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:45.200 another bite at the apple. They got rid of that 0:18:45.240 --> 0:18:48.880 to a great degree. Was somebody smart making the deal 0:18:49.040 --> 0:18:52.360 or that was just a standard deal. I just think 0:18:52.400 --> 0:18:56.720 we were lucky. We met someone. It was a friend 0:18:56.720 --> 0:18:59.679 of Chris White's uncle. Bizarre thing. Who was going to 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:02.719 look look at the contracts we've been offered. We're eighteen 0:19:02.800 --> 0:19:06.600 years old, we know nothing, and at the end of 0:19:06.680 --> 0:19:09.560 the evening. Look at these contracts we've been offered. He said, 0:19:09.600 --> 0:19:13.720 I'll tell you what. We this production company that he 0:19:13.800 --> 0:19:16.520 earned his name was Ken Jones. He became our producer 0:19:17.000 --> 0:19:19.560 and he had a partner called Joe Roncroni, and he said, 0:19:19.600 --> 0:19:23.040 we will offer you better than these deals. And we 0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:25.959 went with them, and they did look after us, they 0:19:26.000 --> 0:19:29.560 really did, and they protected us from the worst of 0:19:29.640 --> 0:19:33.480 the of the things that had happened to you with 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:36.920 a record company. I think where we came unstuck really 0:19:37.040 --> 0:19:40.240 was in live performances. We never really made any money 0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:42.359 on the road, and we worked all the time. 0:19:42.760 --> 0:19:47.720 Okay, let's stay with the record today. Could you live 0:19:47.760 --> 0:19:49.919 off the royalties alone? 0:19:50.160 --> 0:19:50.440 Yes? 0:19:51.000 --> 0:19:55.760 Wow, that's pretty amazing, considering multiple members of the band, etc. 0:19:56.359 --> 0:19:58.080 I know it's good, isn't it. Hey? 0:19:58.119 --> 0:20:01.040 You know it's been sixty years. Has it gone up 0:20:01.080 --> 0:20:03.240 and down in this last twenty five years, been a 0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:05.520 renaissance going up? Or has it always been consistent? 0:20:05.640 --> 0:20:11.199 No renaissance going up? And the eighties around there, it 0:20:11.240 --> 0:20:13.440 didn't seem to be making a lot of money. And 0:20:13.480 --> 0:20:16.520 then slowly but surely I remember sort of the first 0:20:16.600 --> 0:20:19.719 check coming through that was really worth having. I'm on 0:20:19.760 --> 0:20:23.280 the phone to Rod, you got the post yet? This 0:20:23.560 --> 0:20:26.920 check just going what's happening? And I don't know what 0:20:27.520 --> 0:20:30.879 is happening? And gradually the checks and we used to 0:20:30.880 --> 0:20:35.240 get to we've just negotiated a new deal. But in 0:20:35.760 --> 0:20:39.040 these old, these old checks, we would get two a 0:20:39.119 --> 0:20:42.959 year and every six month. You know, my hands are 0:20:42.960 --> 0:20:47.560 shut when the postman goes has the bubble burst? But 0:20:47.680 --> 0:20:51.920 it didn't. And if I say I don't fully understand 0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:55.800 what's happened with the Zombies, I'm embarrassed to say it, 0:20:55.840 --> 0:21:00.840 but it's honestly the truth. The Zombies records sell in 0:21:01.440 --> 0:21:04.439 very healthy quantities around the world and have done for 0:21:04.480 --> 0:21:06.160 the last twenty or twenty five years. 0:21:06.200 --> 0:21:09.480 Okay, how much? This is hard to split up, but 0:21:09.520 --> 0:21:14.200 I'm gonna try anyway. You have the original in America, 0:21:14.240 --> 0:21:16.399 Original two Hitch, She's not there to tell her no 0:21:17.200 --> 0:21:20.120 Bam breaks up. You have Time Sea of the Season. 0:21:20.920 --> 0:21:24.040 But that album grows Out've see an Oracle grows in 0:21:24.160 --> 0:21:29.280 reputation over the years. Is it about the hit or 0:21:29.520 --> 0:21:34.080 is it about the album that is driving this mania? 0:21:34.920 --> 0:21:38.480 I think it's the album. And it's almost as though 0:21:38.520 --> 0:21:41.680 the album did it on its own, because no one 0:21:41.760 --> 0:21:45.040 was promoting it, No one was marketing it. It had 0:21:45.080 --> 0:21:47.760 gone you know, it was really never a hit. I 0:21:47.760 --> 0:21:51.040 looked it up. It went to ninety eight in Billboard 0:21:51.200 --> 0:21:54.919 for one week and disappeared. Rolling Stone named it as 0:21:54.960 --> 0:21:57.959 one of the top hundred albums of all time. And 0:21:58.000 --> 0:22:00.159 you see the albums around it, you know, it's the 0:22:00.160 --> 0:22:05.400 Beatles and Simon and Garfunk, all these wonderful classic albums, 0:22:05.760 --> 0:22:07.920 and there's little old honesty on Oracle right in the 0:22:07.960 --> 0:22:12.040 middle that was never really a hit. And there's just 0:22:12.280 --> 0:22:14.920 there is a mistique about that album. It's just word 0:22:14.960 --> 0:22:20.520 of mouth. People like Tom Petty in America and Dave 0:22:20.600 --> 0:22:24.919 Gohl and Susannah Hoffs and people have quoted it so 0:22:25.040 --> 0:22:29.159 often as a favorite album, and it's really helped. 0:22:29.760 --> 0:22:34.840 Okay, general question. You're the singer, you're the front person. 0:22:35.160 --> 0:22:39.399 You're not writing the lyrics. That is relatively rare. There 0:22:39.440 --> 0:22:42.320 are bands like Rush where the drummer wrote the lyrics. 0:22:42.680 --> 0:22:48.040 What's it like singing somebody else's lyrics, especially I won't 0:22:48.080 --> 0:22:52.000 say they're unbelievably personal, but they're delivered in a very 0:22:52.040 --> 0:22:52.720 personal way. 0:22:53.880 --> 0:22:57.639 Well, I think I was, you know, I was brought 0:22:57.720 --> 0:23:02.480 up doing that all about three formative years. I never 0:23:03.119 --> 0:23:06.080 contributed to the songs. I don't want to say that 0:23:06.160 --> 0:23:08.920 I did in any way at all, but Rod always 0:23:09.040 --> 0:23:12.240 worked with me with the songs. The phrasing of the 0:23:12.320 --> 0:23:16.720 songs is always very important. There's nothing thrown together about, 0:23:16.880 --> 0:23:20.960 especially our laser performances. Rod has always got a vision 0:23:21.000 --> 0:23:24.080 on how a song should be phrased, and we spend 0:23:24.080 --> 0:23:26.880 a lot of time on that, and so it feels 0:23:27.119 --> 0:23:29.920 very natural to me when I'm performing it for real 0:23:30.400 --> 0:23:33.600 as if I wrote it, because we spent a lot 0:23:33.640 --> 0:23:36.359 of time on it, and I hope I fully understand 0:23:36.680 --> 0:23:38.800 what he's trying to say and how he's trying to 0:23:38.840 --> 0:23:41.919 say it, and most importantly, how he's trying to phrase it. 0:23:42.400 --> 0:23:45.240 And he's very patient, and he knows what he wants 0:23:46.160 --> 0:23:49.240 and he's determined to get it too. He's very tenacious. 0:23:49.280 --> 0:23:53.320 I tell you, Okay, in your solo career, you have 0:23:53.440 --> 0:23:58.560 a noted song about an ex girlfriend, Caroline. How did 0:23:58.600 --> 0:24:01.440 that come to be an What did she say about it? 0:24:01.960 --> 0:24:04.200 I'm not sure if she was all that pleased. Really, 0:24:05.720 --> 0:24:09.119 it came about you know, I was just a fledgling writer, 0:24:09.359 --> 0:24:13.359 and you know you're a teenager or early twenties or something. 0:24:13.920 --> 0:24:17.720 You write about heartbreak. That's how you most people start anyway, 0:24:17.760 --> 0:24:20.920 And so I did. I just wrote down what was happening. 0:24:22.280 --> 0:24:24.720 But I always planned to change the name. 0:24:25.880 --> 0:24:28.120 Of course. I wasn't going to use the real name. 0:24:28.640 --> 0:24:32.400 And the recording day came out and can you think 0:24:32.440 --> 0:24:35.920 of another name that would It's a little late now perhaps, 0:24:36.000 --> 0:24:38.480 but I often say that to people, if you can 0:24:38.520 --> 0:24:42.960 think of another name that fits. Maybe it's a bit late, 0:24:43.000 --> 0:24:45.240 but maybe we could slit the other name in. And 0:24:45.280 --> 0:24:48.159 so I took a chance and I recorded it with 0:24:48.320 --> 0:24:52.040 the real name in there. And a journalist knew the 0:24:52.119 --> 0:24:55.959 story who worked for a national newspaper in England, and 0:24:56.000 --> 0:25:00.239 he did a full page story about that. That's it 0:25:00.280 --> 0:25:02.720 wasn't a hit, he just did it. But I think 0:25:02.760 --> 0:25:05.199 she was very beautiful and it was a way of 0:25:05.240 --> 0:25:08.480 getting a picture of a girl in a bikini into 0:25:08.520 --> 0:25:11.680 the newspaper because it was about her as much as 0:25:11.680 --> 0:25:14.959 the song, and the secret was out, you know, and 0:25:15.000 --> 0:25:17.840 it's I mean, I don't think it's anything to be 0:25:17.840 --> 0:25:20.920 too embarrassed about. But it wasn't my intention to use 0:25:20.960 --> 0:25:21.640 the real name. 0:25:22.600 --> 0:25:24.400 So did you ever hear from her about it? 0:25:25.440 --> 0:25:31.159 I've met her, but she's never really said much since then. 0:25:31.680 --> 0:25:34.160 I've never really discussed it with her, but I mean, 0:25:34.640 --> 0:25:38.520 I hope she wouldn't be offended. There's nothing to be 0:25:38.560 --> 0:25:41.359 offended about in there. But I am a little bit 0:25:41.400 --> 0:25:43.680 self conscious about it. Okay, us the real name. 0:25:43.840 --> 0:25:47.160 Okay, just to go back, you did have a relationship 0:25:47.200 --> 0:25:50.240 with her, right, I did. Okay, It wasn't something from 0:25:50.320 --> 0:25:52.920 Afar being no no, no, no no. So how long 0:25:52.960 --> 0:25:53.879 did it go on? Oh? 0:25:53.880 --> 0:25:57.240 It was a couple of years. And she was very young, 0:25:57.440 --> 0:25:59.639 and I think she was so was I. She was 0:25:59.680 --> 0:26:03.439 about seventeen, I think, and I was nineteen or something 0:26:03.480 --> 0:26:06.399 like that. And I, you know, I was always a 0:26:06.600 --> 0:26:10.520 huge romantic. And it's funny because the guys in the 0:26:10.520 --> 0:26:12.720 band would always say I would be the first one 0:26:12.720 --> 0:26:16.400 to be married. At the time, I thought we would 0:26:16.480 --> 0:26:23.200 be married, and I honestly it's terrible, but seventy nine, 0:26:23.280 --> 0:26:25.320 I'm talking about a romance I have when I. 0:26:25.280 --> 0:26:26.159 Was nineteen actual. 0:26:27.160 --> 0:26:31.639 Yeah, Well, anyway, she got a partner film in Spain, 0:26:32.240 --> 0:26:34.120 and this is how my mind worked at that time. 0:26:34.160 --> 0:26:36.320 I thought, this is okay, she's going to be away 0:26:36.359 --> 0:26:39.280 for six months. If we can get through this six 0:26:39.359 --> 0:26:43.520 months apart, then we really should get married. How presumptuous, 0:26:44.840 --> 0:26:46.879 you know. I didn't say that to her. It's just 0:26:46.920 --> 0:26:49.399 what I was thinking. And of course she met someone 0:26:49.440 --> 0:26:54.880 on the film and she married him. That was That 0:26:54.960 --> 0:26:56.919 was the end of the relationship, but it was the 0:26:56.960 --> 0:26:59.919 beginning of the song. You see, every cloud has a 0:27:00.080 --> 0:27:03.879 silver lining. And so I lost the girl, but I 0:27:04.040 --> 0:27:04.760 found the song. 0:27:05.200 --> 0:27:08.240 Now, this woman was an actress, however young. How'd you 0:27:08.320 --> 0:27:08.800 meet her? 0:27:10.280 --> 0:27:14.399 There was a some kind of presentation night for the 0:27:14.480 --> 0:27:20.080 zombies and she was involved. David Bailey, the photographer, named 0:27:20.119 --> 0:27:23.040 her as the face of the year. 0:27:23.280 --> 0:27:23.440 Right. 0:27:24.200 --> 0:27:26.040 I can't remember what year it was, but it was 0:27:26.040 --> 0:27:29.080 a long time, right right. I named her the face 0:27:29.119 --> 0:27:31.800 of the year, and part of her prize for being 0:27:31.840 --> 0:27:34.240 the face of the year was to be at this 0:27:34.640 --> 0:27:37.800 presentation thing that we went to, and I just said 0:27:37.800 --> 0:27:39.840 to her, would you like to come to a club afterwards? 0:27:39.880 --> 0:27:41.680 And that's how I met her. 0:27:42.400 --> 0:27:44.800 Okay, you've been married how many times? 0:27:46.040 --> 0:27:49.680 Twice though I don't always count the first time. 0:27:49.840 --> 0:27:51.840 So how old we were married the first time? 0:27:52.800 --> 0:27:54.000 Old enough to know better. 0:27:55.720 --> 0:27:58.360 I'm old enough to know better because. 0:27:58.520 --> 0:28:02.560 Because I married a total stranger when I was blind drunk. 0:28:04.480 --> 0:28:08.920 There's more to the story than that you met the person. 0:28:09.359 --> 0:28:12.600 How long after you met her did you marry her? 0:28:13.240 --> 0:28:15.840 About seven or eight days? 0:28:16.880 --> 0:28:17.800 Tell me the story. 0:28:18.400 --> 0:28:22.399 Well, I was hoping you'd say that I signed a 0:28:22.520 --> 0:28:26.720 Rocket Records and I've made a record with Gus Dudgeon, 0:28:28.040 --> 0:28:32.600 super bloke, great producer. We spent a lot of money. 0:28:34.240 --> 0:28:39.520 I had lunch with Elton and shortly after we'd made it, 0:28:40.080 --> 0:28:42.600 and you know, I said what do you think of 0:28:42.640 --> 0:28:46.040 the album? And he may not have used these words, 0:28:46.080 --> 0:28:51.760 but you know, he said, well, I don't really like it. 0:28:51.920 --> 0:28:55.640 And we spent I felt terrible. We spent a fortune. 0:28:56.120 --> 0:28:58.240 And he said to me, you know what I think 0:28:58.240 --> 0:29:03.400 you should do. You go to California and record, as 0:29:03.480 --> 0:29:06.360 you know, West Coast Rock album, which is what I did. 0:29:06.400 --> 0:29:08.760 I came over here and I recorded with Bill Shne 0:29:09.240 --> 0:29:13.720 and wonderful group of musicians, and I recorded in LA 0:29:14.920 --> 0:29:17.800 and I ended up back in England. Now I've I've 0:29:18.400 --> 0:29:22.480 recorded the record. Right for recording two albums, Now I'm 0:29:22.560 --> 0:29:26.040 up to a huge amount of money. I dread to think. 0:29:26.320 --> 0:29:29.960 And because the Zombies finished at the end of the seventies, 0:29:30.040 --> 0:29:32.560 I haven't played live since the end of the seventies 0:29:32.880 --> 0:29:35.560 and the sixties, sorry, the end of the sixties, this 0:29:35.600 --> 0:29:39.800 is the mid seventies. I've spent probably one hundred and 0:29:39.840 --> 0:29:43.080 fifty one hundred and seventy thousand pounds, which would be 0:29:43.120 --> 0:29:47.400 more in dollars, and they wanted me to come back 0:29:47.440 --> 0:29:50.959 here and promote it and play some live dates and things. 0:29:51.680 --> 0:29:55.680 That's the weight on my shoulders for the responsibility of 0:29:55.720 --> 0:29:59.840 spending this money, and then the anxiety of can I 0:30:00.040 --> 0:30:03.600 still perform live? And it was getting very close to 0:30:04.240 --> 0:30:06.320 flight time to come over here, and I met a 0:30:06.440 --> 0:30:15.080 very beautiful, vivacious, confident young lady who helped me get 0:30:15.120 --> 0:30:19.880 carried away with the whole spirit of the time. I 0:30:20.000 --> 0:30:22.360 drank a lot of champagne to take the edge off 0:30:22.480 --> 0:30:29.680 my anxiety. I found myself married. That was it, really. 0:30:29.920 --> 0:30:32.520 Okay, let's break it down. Did you end up doing 0:30:32.560 --> 0:30:34.600 the West Coast dates? The live date? 0:30:34.920 --> 0:30:37.600 Actually most of them seemed to fade away. I did 0:30:37.640 --> 0:30:42.760 lots of interviews. I don't remember actually performing live, so 0:30:43.320 --> 0:30:46.680 that was a relief. But I did do lots of interviews, 0:30:47.680 --> 0:30:51.560 and having just met this young lady about two days 0:30:51.560 --> 0:30:53.760 after we got married, might have been the next day, 0:30:53.800 --> 0:30:56.320 I can't remember. I came to California. So when I 0:30:56.400 --> 0:30:59.680 was doing this, I had literally just got married to someone, 0:31:00.360 --> 0:31:03.360 and of course then I had to go home and 0:31:03.400 --> 0:31:05.959 we had to face up to what we've done. And 0:31:06.240 --> 0:31:08.080 it was a tricky one. It was a tricky one. 0:31:08.120 --> 0:31:09.200 But how long did it last? 0:31:09.960 --> 0:31:12.720 Not very long, I'm afraid. I mean like two weeks, 0:31:13.120 --> 0:31:19.120 three years, a few months, I would maybe a little 0:31:19.120 --> 0:31:21.000 bit longer than that, maybe a little bit longer. 0:31:21.120 --> 0:31:23.960 Okay, So how did it end? And we're both people 0:31:24.040 --> 0:31:26.240 happy or were certain people unhappy? 0:31:26.880 --> 0:31:31.960 Well, she went off around the world and she just 0:31:32.000 --> 0:31:33.840 take quite a long time in La actually, and she 0:31:34.000 --> 0:31:38.560 lived with a very famous rock and roll manager here 0:31:39.360 --> 0:31:44.640 longer than she lived with me. I mean, you don't 0:31:44.680 --> 0:31:46.960 know whether to laugh or cry in these situations, do 0:31:47.040 --> 0:31:49.400 you really? And then she went off to Japan and 0:31:49.440 --> 0:31:54.240 eventually she came back and we sorted things out. I 0:31:54.440 --> 0:31:56.160 was a huge learning experience for me. 0:31:57.360 --> 0:32:00.960 Well, other than the fact I don't get married after 0:32:00.960 --> 0:32:03.440 you meet someone drunk in a bar, what were the 0:32:03.480 --> 0:32:04.320 other lessons? 0:32:04.560 --> 0:32:09.480 Yeah, well, don't yeah, don't marry a total stained stranger 0:32:09.520 --> 0:32:12.160 when you're blind drunk. That was the main one, right, 0:32:13.360 --> 0:32:17.080 And it certainly will hit you financially, that's for sure. Right, 0:32:18.920 --> 0:32:20.560 they were the two main lessons I think. 0:32:20.680 --> 0:32:23.600 Yes, Okay, so how all were you when that happened? 0:32:24.920 --> 0:32:26.520 Oh, thirty three? 0:32:27.000 --> 0:32:29.960 Okay? So when did he get married the second time? 0:32:31.240 --> 0:32:33.720 The second time, it's a different kettle of fish. I 0:32:33.840 --> 0:32:38.840 met a wonderful lady who was actually an airline stewardess. 0:32:38.880 --> 0:32:40.920 But I didn't meet her on an aeroplane. I just 0:32:41.240 --> 0:32:44.880 met a few friends, you know, And I think I 0:32:44.920 --> 0:32:47.640 was about forty two when I got married. We've been 0:32:47.680 --> 0:32:51.120 married for thirty eight years and we have one daughter. 0:32:52.000 --> 0:32:57.360 It's wonderful. She's a doctor, and it's been a wonderful marriage. 0:32:57.480 --> 0:33:00.520 And you know, maybe I learned something from that. You know, 0:33:00.600 --> 0:33:04.320 I'm embarrassed about that first marriage, for my sake and 0:33:04.360 --> 0:33:07.680 for the person I'm marriage. You know, I would apologize 0:33:07.720 --> 0:33:11.320 to everyone concerned. I should have known better. But I 0:33:11.480 --> 0:33:13.400 learned a lot out of that. 0:33:13.320 --> 0:33:13.520 You know. 0:33:13.560 --> 0:33:17.320 I learned marriage is a very serious commitment and you 0:33:17.440 --> 0:33:19.200 have to work at it, and you have to be 0:33:19.320 --> 0:33:22.040 sure of the person you're marrying and they have to 0:33:22.080 --> 0:33:25.960 be sure of you. And for the second marriage, it's 0:33:26.040 --> 0:33:28.960 really worked out incredibly well. And maybe it wouldn't have 0:33:29.000 --> 0:33:33.600 worked out if I hadn't done that insane thing. How 0:33:33.600 --> 0:33:36.200 did we get onto the subject of marriages. 0:33:35.920 --> 0:33:38.680 Because we're asking about the song about Caroline. 0:33:38.320 --> 0:33:40.680 Or perhaps that's what it was. Yeah, and you said 0:33:40.680 --> 0:33:42.000 how many times have you been married? 0:33:42.120 --> 0:33:42.320 Right? 0:33:42.360 --> 0:33:53.240 And I said, well, kind of twice, Okay. 0:33:53.600 --> 0:33:57.240 The nature of being someone who is successful in the 0:33:57.280 --> 0:34:01.120 public eye first, I mean, I'm just speak in English here. 0:34:01.760 --> 0:34:05.440 Many people are attracted to performers and songs in a 0:34:05.440 --> 0:34:09.560 different way from movies starts, because the performers embody the song, 0:34:10.200 --> 0:34:15.640 it is them. So yes, when you're in the public eye, 0:34:15.680 --> 0:34:18.480 I would think there are people who had attracted you 0:34:19.200 --> 0:34:23.799 because of that. And then there's also your identity, and 0:34:23.880 --> 0:34:28.240 there's relative power struggles as opposed to just meeting people 0:34:28.280 --> 0:34:32.160 in your hometown. Did you experience that? Oh? 0:34:32.200 --> 0:34:36.000 Absolutely, of course all musicians have experienced that. And I 0:34:36.040 --> 0:34:39.680 think when I was younger, I didn't really understand the 0:34:39.840 --> 0:34:43.880 difference between meeting people on the road, you know, backstage, 0:34:44.400 --> 0:34:48.520 and meeting someone in your hometown. It is different. I 0:34:48.520 --> 0:34:53.319 can always remember I was managed for some time by 0:34:53.360 --> 0:34:56.800 the same person who managed Cat Stevens, and I remember 0:34:56.880 --> 0:35:00.720 him saying to me you you you know, meet people, 0:35:00.960 --> 0:35:03.080 go out with people that you meet on their own. 0:35:04.080 --> 0:35:08.239 Well what everybody did, right, you know, he couldn't believe it, 0:35:08.719 --> 0:35:13.240 And I think you have to be on your guard 0:35:15.000 --> 0:35:18.879 for the people at the show's sake and for your sake. 0:35:19.320 --> 0:35:21.400 But you know, I'm married now, there's. 0:35:22.000 --> 0:35:24.080 Right, right we're talking about. 0:35:24.560 --> 0:35:27.200 Yeah, because it's there's an imbalance. You know, if you're 0:35:27.239 --> 0:35:32.280 a performer and someone is attracted to you as a performer, 0:35:32.760 --> 0:35:37.359 it's not fair on them. There's saying something that's that's 0:35:37.400 --> 0:35:40.880 not there, and so you just have to be you 0:35:40.920 --> 0:35:45.840 have a responsibility to protect them and yourself. Really, I think, 0:35:46.480 --> 0:35:48.279 I mean it's easy for me to say that now. 0:35:48.640 --> 0:35:50.960 You know, I said earlier I'm seventy nine. Now I've 0:35:50.960 --> 0:35:54.680 been married for thirty eight years. But I still believe 0:35:54.719 --> 0:35:55.240 that's true. 0:35:56.640 --> 0:35:59.880 Okay, So you make your present wife where she for 0:36:00.000 --> 0:36:02.040 familiar with you in your career. 0:36:02.200 --> 0:36:04.919 A little bit, I think, But it was more a 0:36:05.000 --> 0:36:10.320 meeting of mutual friends, you know. I think she was aware, yeah, 0:36:10.480 --> 0:36:12.360 but not over impressed. 0:36:13.280 --> 0:36:18.080 Okay, So she's a flight attendant, you're a rock and roller. 0:36:18.120 --> 0:36:19.880 How does your daughter end up a doctor? 0:36:21.520 --> 0:36:30.719 Well, she's very academic she enjoys taking exams. And I 0:36:30.840 --> 0:36:33.400 tell you what happened. She used to go to a 0:36:33.480 --> 0:36:36.160 summer school, and then as she got older, she became 0:36:37.239 --> 0:36:39.839 a helper at the summer school. And there was a 0:36:39.880 --> 0:36:43.480 problem with someone in a swimming pool. You know, they 0:36:43.480 --> 0:36:47.720 could have died, and she, as a young teenager, helped 0:36:47.760 --> 0:36:52.600 to revive them, and she felt something about what had 0:36:52.640 --> 0:36:56.360 happened there. And from then on there was part of 0:36:56.400 --> 0:36:59.640 her that definitely wanted to explore, at least the idea 0:37:00.160 --> 0:37:03.880 of being a doctor. And she went on and she 0:37:03.920 --> 0:37:08.920 did it. She's very bright and very tenacious as well. 0:37:09.280 --> 0:37:15.799 And now she qualified years ago, but she's now a 0:37:15.840 --> 0:37:20.839 psychiatrist actually, and she said that there are probably two 0:37:20.960 --> 0:37:25.120 or three treatable traits in me that should be attended to. 0:37:25.320 --> 0:37:28.080 I haven't actually asked what they are, but obviously she 0:37:28.239 --> 0:37:32.120 sees traits in me that could do with a little 0:37:32.120 --> 0:37:35.840 bit of work. Maybe I'll get one of her friends 0:37:35.880 --> 0:37:38.279 to try and psychoanalyze me. 0:37:38.280 --> 0:37:38.960 Or whatever they do. 0:37:39.080 --> 0:37:39.719 I don't know what. 0:37:39.640 --> 0:37:42.640 They do, Okay, unfortunately, or fortunately I know what they do. 0:37:42.800 --> 0:37:45.799 But being on the other side of the or being 0:37:45.800 --> 0:37:49.520 on the couch, so to speak. But your daughter's obviously 0:37:49.640 --> 0:37:54.560 very successful. You're a musician. Is this totally self directed? 0:37:54.640 --> 0:37:56.799 Or when she was growing up, were you and your 0:37:57.000 --> 0:38:00.600 wife saying, hey, pay attention to your school, do this, 0:38:00.800 --> 0:38:01.160 do that? 0:38:01.840 --> 0:38:06.200 No, but she did. She would come home from school 0:38:06.239 --> 0:38:08.680 to get her school book books out, and she would 0:38:08.680 --> 0:38:11.960 do homework. But what we would do was we would 0:38:12.040 --> 0:38:16.839 keep the house quiet, TV's off, you know, we would 0:38:16.920 --> 0:38:18.960 try and make it easy for her. But we never 0:38:19.040 --> 0:38:21.839 had to say work. The one thing I regret this, 0:38:21.960 --> 0:38:26.400 the one thing I did do was one evening she 0:38:26.600 --> 0:38:30.200 was singing, and the conversation went along the lines of, 0:38:30.239 --> 0:38:32.560 you know, could me and my friends could we make 0:38:32.600 --> 0:38:38.160 a record? And I really regret this, but it's a 0:38:38.200 --> 0:38:42.800 tough business, you know, and especially perhaps for girl singers 0:38:42.800 --> 0:38:45.359 as well. They're very vulnerable and there's so many good 0:38:45.400 --> 0:38:49.040 girl singers out there. And I said no, no, no, don't. 0:38:49.560 --> 0:38:49.919 I wish. 0:38:50.160 --> 0:38:52.520 I really regret it, but I said don't. And she 0:38:52.680 --> 0:38:53.719 just wanted a bit of fun. 0:38:53.760 --> 0:38:54.000 Really. 0:38:54.040 --> 0:38:55.920 I think she would have liked to have made a 0:38:55.960 --> 0:38:59.040 record with her friends. And I don't know, I don't 0:38:59.080 --> 0:39:02.719 do that, don't do that. And I wish I'd have 0:39:02.760 --> 0:39:06.279 said I'll fix the studio, let's make a record with 0:39:06.360 --> 0:39:09.160 you and your pals. I wish i'd done that, But 0:39:09.200 --> 0:39:14.520 that was the only time that I kind of closed 0:39:14.520 --> 0:39:17.320 her down on something she wanted to do, just because 0:39:17.360 --> 0:39:20.239 I was concerned. I knew how often tough it was, 0:39:20.280 --> 0:39:23.080 and I was trying to protect her. But the memory 0:39:23.080 --> 0:39:24.600 of it embarrasses me. 0:39:24.840 --> 0:39:30.520 You know, Okay, she grows up and you hear about 0:39:30.560 --> 0:39:34.880 the progeny of people who are not impressed with the 0:39:34.960 --> 0:39:37.799 success of their parents. How did she feel about you 0:39:37.960 --> 0:39:39.040 and your success? 0:39:40.040 --> 0:39:43.239 Well, she certainly wasn't impressed when I was young. When 0:39:43.280 --> 0:39:48.240 she was young, I'm sorry. I think no, she wasn't 0:39:48.280 --> 0:39:51.640 impressed at all. As she's got older. I think first 0:39:51.680 --> 0:39:56.759 it became intrigue that people were interested in me. I 0:39:56.760 --> 0:40:01.440 think she found that quite interesting herself. Why are they 0:40:01.560 --> 0:40:04.680 talking to my dad? Why is this happening? And then 0:40:04.719 --> 0:40:07.759 she started coming to gigs and so, you know, she 0:40:07.920 --> 0:40:12.080 is a doctor, she's a psychiatrist. She's thirty seven or 0:40:12.120 --> 0:40:15.000 something like that, but she comes to gigs. She comes 0:40:15.040 --> 0:40:19.759 to festivals with her husband, and sometimes she'd bring the 0:40:19.760 --> 0:40:24.600 little baby along as well. She likes festivals and I 0:40:24.640 --> 0:40:26.960 think she really enjoys it now. But when she was 0:40:27.000 --> 0:40:31.160 a teenager. First of all, I think she was in denial, 0:40:32.160 --> 0:40:36.760 and secondly, I think she was a bit embarrassed. Probably 0:40:36.800 --> 0:40:40.640 her friends were all parents were all investment bankers and 0:40:41.200 --> 0:40:44.520 diplomats or whatever they were. They weren't near rock and 0:40:44.600 --> 0:40:48.000 roll singers in the parents group at her school. 0:40:48.280 --> 0:40:53.240 It's only me, okay, from my life, You're the only 0:40:53.320 --> 0:40:56.880 person I've ever known named Blundstone. Yes, if you're in 0:40:56.960 --> 0:41:00.000 England or are there other Blundstones or does she say 0:41:00.080 --> 0:41:03.280 I'm so and sold Blunstone said, oh is your father Colin? 0:41:04.640 --> 0:41:07.279 I think people do say that to her. But there 0:41:07.360 --> 0:41:10.400 is only one family, I believe, but most of them 0:41:10.400 --> 0:41:12.399 are in the north of the country. My father came 0:41:12.480 --> 0:41:17.799 from the north of the country. But if someone's called Blunstone, 0:41:17.920 --> 0:41:22.840 then as far as I know, we would be related. Yeah, 0:41:23.000 --> 0:41:25.359 but people do say that to her because it's an 0:41:25.440 --> 0:41:26.200 unusual name. 0:41:26.600 --> 0:41:29.759 Yeah, okay, So where exactly do you grow up? 0:41:30.360 --> 0:41:33.240 I grew up just north of London in a place 0:41:33.280 --> 0:41:36.440 called Hatfield, and I went to school in a place 0:41:36.480 --> 0:41:38.800 called Saint Albans, which is four or five miles away, 0:41:39.000 --> 0:41:41.520 and that's where all the zombies all went to school. 0:41:41.520 --> 0:41:43.160 In Saint Albans and that's the connection. 0:41:43.360 --> 0:41:47.800 Okay, but you know people in America are not that savvy. 0:41:47.840 --> 0:41:50.840 From the center of London. How far was the town 0:41:51.520 --> 0:41:52.520 that you grew up in. 0:41:52.560 --> 0:41:56.359 Probably about twenty five twenty eight miles quite close. 0:41:56.239 --> 0:41:58.600 And could you take the train in if you wanted to? 0:41:58.680 --> 0:41:59.760 Half an hour on the train. 0:42:00.080 --> 0:42:02.200 And did people in your town did some of them 0:42:02.239 --> 0:42:03.480 take the train to go to work? 0:42:03.880 --> 0:42:06.440 Oh? Absolutely, yeah, it was it was commutable. 0:42:06.640 --> 0:42:10.040 Yeah, right, And your parents did what for a living? 0:42:10.719 --> 0:42:15.680 Well, my father really was. He was say, a gentleman's hairdresser. 0:42:16.480 --> 0:42:20.280 Some people might say Barbara, that was his trade. Really. 0:42:21.040 --> 0:42:23.560 My mom when she was younger, she was a dancer, 0:42:24.400 --> 0:42:26.560 but then later on, you know, she worked in offices 0:42:26.600 --> 0:42:31.400 and she was a mom. She didn't particularly have a career, 0:42:31.840 --> 0:42:34.120 but she was a wonderful personality because she'd been on 0:42:34.120 --> 0:42:36.200 the stage, you know. I mean, she would love to 0:42:36.400 --> 0:42:38.840 sing at the drop of the hat and was very good. 0:42:39.960 --> 0:42:45.719 Okay, the war has just ended, we hear you know 0:42:45.840 --> 0:42:48.640 the metaphor I always say, You know, ultimately in England 0:42:48.719 --> 0:42:50.800 went from black and white to color. It was different 0:42:50.800 --> 0:42:55.640 in America. So it's nineteen forty five, you're not conscious 0:42:56.000 --> 0:42:58.320 but as you become conscious the end of the forties 0:42:58.320 --> 0:43:04.200 and early fifties, especially with in retrospect, were there limits 0:43:04.280 --> 0:43:07.720 could you feel the hangover the war? Were there things 0:43:07.760 --> 0:43:09.719 you couldn't get? What was it like? 0:43:10.200 --> 0:43:14.759 Absolutely, it was very austere in the UK after the war. 0:43:15.080 --> 0:43:17.719 I've heard people say that it was tougher after the war. 0:43:17.719 --> 0:43:20.080 I mean I was a child, so I wasn't aware 0:43:20.080 --> 0:43:22.720 of this, but I've heard people say it was tougher 0:43:22.840 --> 0:43:25.279 after the war. And it was during the war and 0:43:25.640 --> 0:43:29.520 most things were Russian. So food was ration and you 0:43:30.280 --> 0:43:33.440 and you know it really if to see an orange, 0:43:33.480 --> 0:43:36.040 you might see an orange at one orange at Christmas, 0:43:36.400 --> 0:43:40.680 that would be it. Clothes were rationed, Petrol was rationing, 0:43:40.719 --> 0:43:43.279 so you know, you could only use so much pet 0:43:43.280 --> 0:43:45.399 petrol in a week. You had you had a ration 0:43:45.520 --> 0:43:47.920 book and you could only use so much petrol. And 0:43:48.520 --> 0:43:51.759 I think butter was Russian. It was quite tough. And 0:43:51.840 --> 0:43:54.319 on top of that from people have told me, I 0:43:54.320 --> 0:43:56.120 think it was nineteen forty eight, it was a very 0:43:56.200 --> 0:43:59.240 very bad winter and it's very hard to get hold 0:43:59.280 --> 0:44:02.720 of coal to heat your house, so it was tough 0:44:02.800 --> 0:44:06.920 in the late forties and fifties. And I think that's 0:44:07.040 --> 0:44:10.640 part of the reasons why the sixties exploded in such 0:44:10.680 --> 0:44:12.920 a way, because we were just coming out of that 0:44:13.560 --> 0:44:18.720 post war austerity in the late fifties and into the sixties, 0:44:18.719 --> 0:44:22.040 it was still a hangover. If you drove up to 0:44:22.920 --> 0:44:26.560 London in the fifties, there were huge areas that where 0:44:26.600 --> 0:44:29.480 it had been bombed that were just there were no 0:44:29.560 --> 0:44:32.200 houses there, and you knew why there were no houses 0:44:32.239 --> 0:44:35.200 there because that lort Ha got bombed. 0:44:36.120 --> 0:44:41.400 Okay, you're an only child. Some only children, all the 0:44:41.480 --> 0:44:44.439 wholes dreams of the parents are invested. They say how 0:44:44.480 --> 0:44:48.000 great they pushed the kid. Other family if they treat 0:44:48.040 --> 0:44:50.360 the kid more as an adult. What was your experience 0:44:50.440 --> 0:44:50.960 growing up? 0:44:51.800 --> 0:45:01.120 Well, I was very supported and loved growing up. I 0:45:01.719 --> 0:45:07.160 was so fortunate. I really loving parents who just wanted 0:45:07.200 --> 0:45:11.640 the best for me. Really, that's all. I don't think 0:45:11.719 --> 0:45:15.160 they were over ambitious because they were in a way. 0:45:16.239 --> 0:45:18.800 Not to talk down about them, they were wonderful people, 0:45:18.840 --> 0:45:23.080 but they were working class people and so they just 0:45:23.120 --> 0:45:26.919 wanted me, wanted me to be happy. Really, that was it. 0:45:27.200 --> 0:45:31.760 Okay, you're going to school, you know, in America, public 0:45:31.800 --> 0:45:34.760 school is one thing, and in the UK public school's 0:45:34.800 --> 0:45:39.800 private school. But it was a regular government school, right, yes, 0:45:40.160 --> 0:45:41.160 And what was that like? 0:45:42.200 --> 0:45:45.800 It was fine. I went to a nice local school 0:45:46.000 --> 0:45:50.640 up till eleven and I could walk to school, and 0:45:50.680 --> 0:45:54.239 they were quite interested in music. Not guitars or rock 0:45:54.280 --> 0:45:56.960 and roll, but there was an interest in music. And 0:45:57.000 --> 0:45:59.520 I established actually even then that I had a little 0:45:59.520 --> 0:46:01.719 bit of a boy as a young boy. They got 0:46:01.760 --> 0:46:06.200 me to sing some solo pieces, but that kind of 0:46:06.719 --> 0:46:09.120 faded away. I forgot that that wasn't going to lead 0:46:09.160 --> 0:46:12.040 to a career in a rock and roll band at 0:46:12.040 --> 0:46:14.759 eleven in those days, and in some areas in the 0:46:14.800 --> 0:46:17.120 country they still do this. They have an exam it's 0:46:17.160 --> 0:46:19.600 called the eleven plus and if you pass that exam, 0:46:19.840 --> 0:46:23.120 you go to a more academic school. And I went 0:46:23.160 --> 0:46:25.600 to a more academic school. I went to Saint Albans 0:46:25.600 --> 0:46:28.920 Grammar School in St Albans. It was an all boys 0:46:28.960 --> 0:46:33.759 school and I got a shock because there were a 0:46:33.800 --> 0:46:36.920 lot of bright people there and I, you know, I 0:46:37.480 --> 0:46:40.839 certainly wasn't amongst them. I was very average. But it 0:46:40.880 --> 0:46:44.600 was a good school. And also I discovered a love 0:46:44.760 --> 0:46:49.520 for sport while I was there, and I probably did 0:46:49.640 --> 0:46:52.120 too much sport. I should have been at home, helping 0:46:52.160 --> 0:46:54.239 out at home really, but you know, every night I 0:46:54.280 --> 0:46:57.600 would stay on and do one sport or another, and 0:46:58.080 --> 0:47:03.600 I loved it. And then at about fifteen, the guy 0:47:03.640 --> 0:47:06.480 in front of me, we were it's a strict school, 0:47:06.520 --> 0:47:09.120 and we were arranged enough better ordered by our surnames. 0:47:09.120 --> 0:47:11.640 No one ever called us by a Christian names. And 0:47:11.680 --> 0:47:13.840 the guy in front of me was a guy called Arnold, 0:47:14.960 --> 0:47:20.040 Paul Arnold and Colin blunts and sat behind him. And 0:47:20.239 --> 0:47:23.359 he turned around to me and he said, I've got 0:47:23.360 --> 0:47:27.239 a mate who's putting a band together. Yeah, you've got 0:47:27.239 --> 0:47:30.759 a guitar, haven't you? And I said, yeah, I have 0:47:30.880 --> 0:47:33.080 got a guitar actually, And he said, do you want 0:47:33.120 --> 0:47:36.080 to be in the band? And that basically was that's 0:47:36.120 --> 0:47:37.480 my audition for the Zombies. 0:47:37.680 --> 0:47:41.040 Okay, let's go back. You say you're a very average 0:47:41.080 --> 0:47:46.640 student when you're less than eleven. Are you someone who's 0:47:46.680 --> 0:47:48.640 more of a loner or are you someone who has 0:47:48.640 --> 0:47:51.200 a lot of friends? What kind of kid are you? No? 0:47:51.280 --> 0:47:55.160 I think I had I had, I had friends. Yeah. 0:47:55.200 --> 0:47:58.360 And then in your house, your mother was a dancer. 0:47:58.400 --> 0:48:00.000 Did they play music in the house? 0:48:01.520 --> 0:48:04.359 Not an awful lot, No, But any excuse she would 0:48:04.440 --> 0:48:09.240 sing and dance. I don't remember, but she had five brothers. 0:48:10.120 --> 0:48:12.160 I used to go a lot to my grandparents' house, 0:48:12.800 --> 0:48:15.440 which was about ten miles away, but like two or 0:48:15.440 --> 0:48:19.359 three nights a week. I don't quite understand how we 0:48:19.400 --> 0:48:22.360 got over there in those days. We didn't always have 0:48:22.400 --> 0:48:24.000 a car. It would have to be on the bus. 0:48:24.360 --> 0:48:26.799 But we went there a lot. And my mother had 0:48:26.880 --> 0:48:30.239 five brothers and they all played instruments. Most of them 0:48:30.280 --> 0:48:33.279 played two or three instruments really well, sort of semi professional, 0:48:33.800 --> 0:48:36.880 And so I heard a lot of music in that house. 0:48:38.200 --> 0:48:41.279 At Christmases were wonderful. They would do a fanfare for 0:48:41.320 --> 0:48:44.960 the Christmas pudding to come through. It'd be two trombones 0:48:45.000 --> 0:48:50.680 and a trumpet. And then after the meal we'd have 0:48:50.680 --> 0:48:53.919 a we had a dance band, so we we would 0:48:54.640 --> 0:48:59.960 we would experience live music when these guys you know, 0:49:00.400 --> 0:49:03.319 chose to play it was. It was wonderful. But I 0:49:03.320 --> 0:49:07.560 don't remember an awful lot of the radio. BBC Radio 0:49:07.640 --> 0:49:10.759 didn't play a lot of contemporary music. They would play 0:49:10.840 --> 0:49:16.359 like light classics or else it was talk music. It 0:49:16.440 --> 0:49:21.480 wasn't till the till the Pirates came about and they 0:49:21.480 --> 0:49:27.920 were playing records and the beeB had to compete and 0:49:28.000 --> 0:49:31.480 so then they started playing records too. The BBC before that, 0:49:31.560 --> 0:49:34.480 they didn't play records for one reason or another, one 0:49:34.520 --> 0:49:37.600 being that the musicians' union was very strong and they 0:49:37.640 --> 0:49:42.120 didn't want records played. They wanted musicians to be employed 0:49:42.160 --> 0:49:45.319 to play live music. And it used to be called 0:49:45.440 --> 0:49:48.759 needle time. BBC only had so much needle time when 0:49:48.800 --> 0:49:51.879 they could play records. It's very old fashioned and very 0:49:51.920 --> 0:49:56.839 different to radio here. Now, we followed you very much 0:49:56.880 --> 0:50:00.279 and it's it's similar over there to the radio set 0:50:00.360 --> 0:50:00.680 up here. 0:50:08.360 --> 0:50:10.799 Let's go back a step. You say you go to 0:50:11.600 --> 0:50:13.759 I think it was Saint Albans, the second school, and 0:50:13.760 --> 0:50:17.920 you become very interested in sport. So what sports did 0:50:17.920 --> 0:50:19.160 you play and how good were you? 0:50:22.520 --> 0:50:26.840 Well, my favorite sport was rugby, and for the first 0:50:26.880 --> 0:50:30.520 rehearsal when I turned up, Paul Arnold asked me to 0:50:30.560 --> 0:50:34.160 go along to rehearsal on a Saturday morning. On the 0:50:34.200 --> 0:50:38.440 Wednesday afternoon, I broke my nose playing rugby quite badly 0:50:38.840 --> 0:50:42.120 and my nose was nearly in my ear and they 0:50:42.200 --> 0:50:44.319 I had to go to hospital and they'd strapped me 0:50:44.600 --> 0:50:47.200 with white tape across the face and I had two 0:50:47.280 --> 0:50:50.759 black eyes. And I turned up for the first rehearsal 0:50:51.680 --> 0:50:56.520 and they were scared of me. What surprised time would 0:50:56.600 --> 0:51:00.359 have been scared to. Rhodes told me that we were 0:51:00.360 --> 0:51:03.600 standing on this street corner. Paul Arnold is the only 0:51:03.640 --> 0:51:06.040 guy I know from my school. Rod had got some 0:51:06.040 --> 0:51:09.920 guys from another school, so the other people didn't know me. 0:51:10.600 --> 0:51:14.799 And Rod was standing under his breath. God, don't say that, 0:51:15.080 --> 0:51:24.160 rough guy, And it was me. Yeah, but yes, I 0:51:24.480 --> 0:51:26.880 love to play rugby. I would have loved to have 0:51:26.880 --> 0:51:30.600 been a good rugby player, but I wasn't really good enough. 0:51:31.400 --> 0:51:33.400 I was a sprinter, so I was very fast. You know, 0:51:35.880 --> 0:51:37.680 it seems silly to say this now, but I was 0:51:37.680 --> 0:51:42.439 a schoolboys sprint champion at school of the County, which 0:51:42.480 --> 0:51:46.080 would perhaps be like the state. And actually I had 0:51:46.120 --> 0:51:48.960 a national trial at basketball, believe it or not, because 0:51:49.000 --> 0:51:52.080 basketball is not a big sport in the UK, and 0:51:52.120 --> 0:51:54.600 that's probably why I got a national trial because there 0:51:54.640 --> 0:51:57.680 weren't many other people. There weren't many many other people 0:51:57.719 --> 0:52:00.680 playing it, so they were the three sports that I play, Rugby, 0:52:00.920 --> 0:52:02.960 athletics and basketball. 0:52:03.600 --> 0:52:08.160 Okay, you talk about the BBC not playing records, but 0:52:08.320 --> 0:52:11.880 in the fifties rock and roll starts to happen. You 0:52:12.000 --> 0:52:14.960 have Rocket Ada, you have Rock around the Clock, you 0:52:15.040 --> 0:52:18.920 have Elvis, you have Little Richard. Is this on your radar? 0:52:19.640 --> 0:52:22.319 It is, and it's always intrigued me. Where did I 0:52:22.400 --> 0:52:27.640 hear it? I used to, at quite a young age, 0:52:27.719 --> 0:52:30.040 hang out at this sort of cafe place that had 0:52:30.040 --> 0:52:33.919 a jukebox. That was one place I heard it. They 0:52:33.960 --> 0:52:38.040 occasionally played things on the BBC, but it's really not 0:52:38.760 --> 0:52:42.880 very much, but I was aware of it. Elvis especially. 0:52:43.880 --> 0:52:45.880 I don't even think we had a record player at 0:52:45.920 --> 0:52:49.719 home when I was really younger. Later we did, but 0:52:50.160 --> 0:52:53.120 I heard Elvis's early records. So the three for me 0:52:53.200 --> 0:52:57.399 that got me interested were Elvis, Little Richard, and Chuck 0:52:57.440 --> 0:53:01.360 Berry and I I just thought they were one for 0:53:01.560 --> 0:53:04.160 all Americans. And this is the thing I always say 0:53:04.200 --> 0:53:08.120 to American people is that British musicians always want to 0:53:08.160 --> 0:53:12.360 come to America. It's the home of the blues, jazz, 0:53:12.640 --> 0:53:15.239 rhythm and blues and rock and roll. This is where 0:53:15.280 --> 0:53:19.359 it all happened, and British musicians always want to come here, 0:53:19.400 --> 0:53:24.720 and nearly always they get interested in music through American musicians. 0:53:24.880 --> 0:53:28.160 Maybe not always, but mostly they do. And certainly my 0:53:28.320 --> 0:53:29.160 generation did. 0:53:30.160 --> 0:53:33.040 Okay, how did you end up with a guitar? Well? 0:53:33.080 --> 0:53:36.880 I loved the kind of people we're talking about, and 0:53:36.880 --> 0:53:40.719 then later on very much. Ricky Nelson was huge for me, 0:53:40.840 --> 0:53:42.040 and Buddy Holly. 0:53:42.120 --> 0:53:45.920 Did as an heiot show play. No, it didn't know, 0:53:46.200 --> 0:53:48.440 so you didn't get Ricky playing at the end. 0:53:48.600 --> 0:53:54.000 No. I saw occasional clips on the TV. It's it's 0:53:54.000 --> 0:53:56.760 a mystery to me how anybody ever heard these songs, 0:53:56.800 --> 0:54:00.359 but we did because because we you know, we loved 0:54:00.400 --> 0:54:02.520 the music and you just five ways to do it. 0:54:03.200 --> 0:54:05.600 I begged for a guitar, and it was a big 0:54:05.640 --> 0:54:10.400 sacrifice for my parents to get me a guitar. I 0:54:10.440 --> 0:54:15.200 think it cost twelve pounds. It was a famous Atlantis 0:54:15.600 --> 0:54:19.680 and I think it was made in East Germany. And 0:54:19.719 --> 0:54:25.200 it was quite a nice acoustic guitar and I could 0:54:25.280 --> 0:54:28.480 play a few chords on it, you know, I loved 0:54:28.960 --> 0:54:31.799 I think my father was a bit worried it was 0:54:31.800 --> 0:54:35.319 going to be a three day wonder, but it didn't 0:54:35.360 --> 0:54:37.839 work out that way. I loved to play. I would 0:54:37.880 --> 0:54:38.960 play for hours on end. 0:54:39.440 --> 0:54:41.239 Okay, how'd you learn? 0:54:41.960 --> 0:54:45.200 Mostly? I taught myself mostly? Yeah. 0:54:45.280 --> 0:54:48.839 Okay, So when Paul Arnold says, hey, these guys are 0:54:48.880 --> 0:54:54.080 forming a band. You just played your acoustic guitar at home. Yes, 0:54:54.800 --> 0:54:57.359 you didn't play out anywhere. It wasn't like you went 0:54:57.400 --> 0:54:59.719 to friend's house and picked up the guitar and they said, oh, 0:54:59.719 --> 0:55:01.480 you're the famous guy who plays the guitar. 0:55:02.040 --> 0:55:04.000 No, not very much. I don't think I might have 0:55:04.080 --> 0:55:06.880 done it a little bit, but no, I just played 0:55:06.920 --> 0:55:10.200 at home and I joined the Zombies as a rhythm guitarist. 0:55:10.800 --> 0:55:14.160 Rod Argent was going to be the lead singer, and 0:55:14.239 --> 0:55:18.840 at that first rehearsal there was a we we played. 0:55:19.400 --> 0:55:24.160 We just played an instrumental called Malaguena. It's like a 0:55:24.200 --> 0:55:27.000 classic song that people play. And because it was an 0:55:27.040 --> 0:55:29.160 instrumental and Rob was going to be the lead singer, 0:55:29.160 --> 0:55:32.600 of course he didn't actually do anything. But there was 0:55:32.640 --> 0:55:35.600 a break in the middle of the first rehearsal. We 0:55:35.680 --> 0:55:37.960 had a coffee and there was an old, broken down 0:55:38.000 --> 0:55:41.040 piano in the corner, and he went over and he 0:55:41.080 --> 0:55:50.359 played not Rocker by Bee Bumble and the Stingers, and 0:55:50.400 --> 0:55:53.359 he was just so much better than us. We were 0:55:53.440 --> 0:55:57.319 really ordinary and I just I've only just met him, 0:55:57.600 --> 0:55:59.680 so I wasn't too sure of what his name was, 0:56:00.200 --> 0:56:02.600 but I went over. I thought this was quite bold. Actually, 0:56:02.880 --> 0:56:04.560 I went over to him and I said, you know, 0:56:04.680 --> 0:56:08.360 whatever your name is, you should play keyboards in this band. 0:56:08.800 --> 0:56:12.120 You're really good. And he said, no, no, we don't 0:56:12.160 --> 0:56:14.680 want keyboards in this band. It's a rock and roll band. 0:56:14.680 --> 0:56:19.319 That's three guitars. And he was adamant. And then at 0:56:19.360 --> 0:56:21.840 the end of the rehearsal, just as I was putting 0:56:21.880 --> 0:56:24.799 my guitar away, I just started singing a little bit 0:56:24.840 --> 0:56:26.839 to myself and it was I know, its a Ricky 0:56:26.960 --> 0:56:30.319 Narsen song and I think it was it's late, but 0:56:30.400 --> 0:56:33.520 I'm not absolutely sure. And he just turned around and 0:56:33.560 --> 0:56:37.399 said he heard me singing, and he said, if you'll 0:56:37.400 --> 0:56:41.839 be the lead singer, I'll play keyboards. And essentially that 0:56:42.040 --> 0:56:45.680 was the Zombies. It was all so so much chance, 0:56:46.320 --> 0:56:48.759 you know. I mean, you have conversations like that, you 0:56:48.840 --> 0:56:51.680 be the lead singer, and I'll bet you're not thinking 0:56:51.760 --> 0:56:55.200 that sixty years later we'll be touring the world and 0:56:55.360 --> 0:56:58.560 having had hit records and being inducted in the Rock 0:56:58.600 --> 0:57:02.279 and Roll Hall of Fame. I said, well, okay, I'll 0:57:02.280 --> 0:57:05.480 give it a go, and that was it. 0:57:05.560 --> 0:57:09.160 Really okay, So you had a whole scene in the 0:57:09.239 --> 0:57:13.600 UK that didn't happen in America. The skiffle bands. Okay, 0:57:13.840 --> 0:57:17.120 when you formed the band, I believe in nineteen sixty one, 0:57:17.760 --> 0:57:21.160 was that a thing? I mean, like, after the Beatles 0:57:21.240 --> 0:57:25.640 hit in America, everybody here formed the band. Okay, So 0:57:25.840 --> 0:57:29.680 in sixty one were a lot of people starting bands 0:57:29.760 --> 0:57:31.800 or were you more of the outliers. 0:57:32.200 --> 0:57:34.400 No, there were a lot of people in bands, yeah, 0:57:34.440 --> 0:57:38.800 but not skiffle right had come and gone. So it 0:57:38.560 --> 0:57:40.280 was it was rock and roll. It would have been 0:57:41.080 --> 0:57:44.320 you know, the American greats, and then in the UK 0:57:44.360 --> 0:57:47.920 it would have been people like Cliff Richard perhaps and 0:57:48.280 --> 0:57:51.920 Joe Brown and Marty Wilde and people like that. But 0:57:52.240 --> 0:57:55.919 I think we were more looking towards America. In fact, 0:57:56.280 --> 0:57:59.800 as time went by, we renamed the Zombies. Were called 0:57:59.800 --> 0:58:02.560 as Zombies R and B for quite a long while 0:58:02.560 --> 0:58:06.160 because we were trying to explore the R and B artists. 0:58:06.680 --> 0:58:09.120 But then, of course we realized I'm skipping ahead a 0:58:09.160 --> 0:58:11.200 bit here, but we realized we had two guys in 0:58:11.240 --> 0:58:15.040 the band who could write, and that changed everything. 0:58:15.440 --> 0:58:19.680 Okay, before you get there, yeah, you're playing an acoustic guitar. 0:58:20.520 --> 0:58:23.520 I had a little pickup on him, which my dad 0:58:24.560 --> 0:58:26.960 I think someone gave it to me. My dad managed 0:58:27.000 --> 0:58:31.160 to stick it onto the guitar. I mean it it 0:58:31.240 --> 0:58:33.680 looked very cumbersome, but what do you do for an 0:58:33.680 --> 0:58:40.160 e app Well, that first rehearsal, Rod's cousin Jim Rodford, 0:58:40.680 --> 0:58:43.280 who was twenty years in the Kinks and then twenty 0:58:43.400 --> 0:58:46.040 years in the Zombies as well. Sadly he's passed away 0:58:46.120 --> 0:58:50.880 quite recently. But Rod's cousin, Jim Rodford, was in the 0:58:50.920 --> 0:58:54.000 big band in Saint Albans who were called the Blue Tones, 0:58:54.360 --> 0:58:57.160 and they were really good, and they had all the 0:58:57.240 --> 0:59:00.600 Fox equipment and a full drum kit and everything, and 0:59:00.720 --> 0:59:04.800 Jim managed to persuade them to let us borrow their 0:59:04.840 --> 0:59:09.160 gear on that first rehearsal. So we thought we sounded 0:59:09.640 --> 0:59:15.080 pretty wonderful through these ants and drums. Jim much later, 0:59:15.720 --> 0:59:20.000 you know, fifty years later, admitted that when he heard 0:59:20.080 --> 0:59:23.600 us play and I'm thinking we sound wonderful, Jim was 0:59:23.640 --> 0:59:28.160 listening and watching and he thought no chance, no chance. 0:59:29.080 --> 0:59:32.200 He'd waited fifty years and he'd only said it in 0:59:32.200 --> 0:59:35.280 a very light way. We just died laughing because we 0:59:35.800 --> 0:59:38.840 thought we were great. But he thought we were terrible. 0:59:39.680 --> 0:59:41.840 Then the next rehearsal we had of course, we didn't 0:59:41.880 --> 0:59:47.160 have all their equipment. We had one handmade, broken down 0:59:47.160 --> 0:59:51.600 old amplifier that everyone had to plug into, and a 0:59:51.720 --> 0:59:56.200 handmade speaker, and our drummer, Hugh Grundy, had two drumsticks 0:59:56.200 --> 0:59:59.680 and he played on that. They were his drums, and 0:59:59.760 --> 1:00:02.720 I we had a microphone that was like a shot put. 1:00:02.880 --> 1:00:07.200 It was really very heavy to hold, and that was 1:00:07.240 --> 1:00:10.080 a real wake up call. That was our second rehearse 1:00:10.120 --> 1:00:14.120 and you think, God, we're hopeless. We haven't got any gear, 1:00:14.920 --> 1:00:16.960 and we just It took us a year, you know, 1:00:17.040 --> 1:00:21.000 to save and buy bits and pieces before we played 1:00:21.000 --> 1:00:28.360 our first little gig at a youth club and again 1:00:28.640 --> 1:00:31.680 I thought it was fantastic to actually play. And in 1:00:31.720 --> 1:00:33.919 the last song, they used to always try and put 1:00:33.920 --> 1:00:37.240 the lights down in the last song so they could 1:00:37.280 --> 1:00:41.920 do a close dance. And we were doing an instrumental 1:00:41.960 --> 1:00:46.080 called Nivram, which is a song from The Shadows, and 1:00:46.120 --> 1:00:48.920 there's a bass solo in the middle of the song 1:00:49.360 --> 1:00:52.480 and when they put the lights down, Paul Arnold at 1:00:52.480 --> 1:00:54.880 that time was playing bass and he got onto the 1:00:54.920 --> 1:00:59.200 wrong threat because the lights had come down and you 1:00:59.280 --> 1:01:04.280 play this whole based solo, a semitone sharp to what 1:01:04.440 --> 1:01:07.840 we were playing, and I think it sounded it sounded 1:01:08.000 --> 1:01:13.080 very modern, something Miles Davis might have tried. 1:01:13.120 --> 1:01:17.720 You know, it was okay in that year. How many 1:01:17.760 --> 1:01:22.720 times are you getting together and at what point do 1:01:22.840 --> 1:01:24.480 you guys say we're committed. 1:01:26.800 --> 1:01:30.320 I don't remember a discussion about being committed or not, 1:01:30.720 --> 1:01:36.240 but most sundays we got together to rehearse. And it 1:01:36.760 --> 1:01:39.000 got a bit much for Paul Arnold. He wanted to 1:01:39.000 --> 1:01:41.920 be a doctor. He's very aware of having to keep 1:01:42.000 --> 1:01:45.439 up on his studies, and so he was the only 1:01:45.520 --> 1:01:49.000 guy who left. He's the only guy who escaped. And 1:01:49.120 --> 1:01:50.320 Chris White turned up. 1:01:50.560 --> 1:01:52.360 What happened to Paul Arnold in life? 1:01:52.440 --> 1:01:55.840 Became a doctor and he's in Edmonton and we've played 1:01:55.920 --> 1:01:58.280 up there quite a few times and he always comes 1:01:58.560 --> 1:02:01.360 and we always introduced him to the audience. I think 1:02:01.360 --> 1:02:03.800 he really enjoys it. Actually gets the spotlight on him 1:02:03.800 --> 1:02:07.560 and he really likes it. And Chris White came and 1:02:07.600 --> 1:02:10.920 took over. But it was very interesting. I'm not I 1:02:10.960 --> 1:02:15.840 don't really know where Chris White came from exactly. I 1:02:15.920 --> 1:02:19.360 don't know who approached him. He just arrived, and what 1:02:19.480 --> 1:02:22.000 intrigued me was usually bass playing. The Drama are very 1:02:22.040 --> 1:02:25.439 tight because they played together well. Chris had been coming 1:02:25.440 --> 1:02:27.760 in and playing bass for about five or six weeks, 1:02:28.280 --> 1:02:32.280 and Hugh Grundy, our drummer, came up to me and 1:02:33.000 --> 1:02:36.200 very quietly whispered in my ear. He said, who's this 1:02:36.280 --> 1:02:39.640 book who keeps coming in and playing base? I realized 1:02:39.960 --> 1:02:42.200 that he'd been coming in for five or six weeks 1:02:42.200 --> 1:02:44.240 to play bass, and Hew had never spoken to him, 1:02:44.280 --> 1:02:48.160 and he didn't know who he was. And I think 1:02:48.200 --> 1:02:53.080 there's something of the Zombies in that that things just 1:02:53.200 --> 1:02:56.040 used to happen and no one really knew. No one 1:02:56.120 --> 1:02:59.280 really knew why or how. I don't know where Chris 1:02:59.320 --> 1:02:59.840 came from. 1:03:00.080 --> 1:03:02.360 Okay, so playing in B and B. Believe me, I 1:03:02.440 --> 1:03:05.320 was never any good. There's always one person who says, 1:03:06.160 --> 1:03:08.760 we got to get a gig. They're like the business person. 1:03:08.920 --> 1:03:11.560 She happened. Usually this is a drummer. What happened in 1:03:11.600 --> 1:03:12.240 the Zombies. 1:03:12.520 --> 1:03:15.160 Well, I'm not so sure about We've got to get 1:03:15.200 --> 1:03:18.520 a gig? But musically it was always Rod. It was 1:03:18.600 --> 1:03:21.560 Rod's but Rod formed the band. It's Rod's band. He's 1:03:21.600 --> 1:03:24.960 the leader of the band. He was head and shoulders 1:03:25.040 --> 1:03:28.720 better than us musically, and he was the first one 1:03:28.760 --> 1:03:32.240 to start writing as well. So the whole musical direction 1:03:32.840 --> 1:03:36.680 came from Rod. But I think we all knew if 1:03:36.680 --> 1:03:39.800 we're going to do this, we have at some point 1:03:39.920 --> 1:03:43.120 we've got to we've got to try and perform. And 1:03:43.240 --> 1:03:47.000 I think we all tried to get gigs. Really, it 1:03:47.040 --> 1:03:49.640 wasn't all down to the drummer as he has been 1:03:49.680 --> 1:03:52.080 in your experience. I think we all tried to get gigs. 1:03:53.160 --> 1:03:55.600 And I remember I got them into some youth clubs 1:03:55.600 --> 1:03:59.240 around hat and then I got them into my rugby club. 1:03:59.720 --> 1:04:01.720 And this is when you're taking your life into your 1:04:02.640 --> 1:04:07.000 because these guys they're quite physical and they drink lots 1:04:07.000 --> 1:04:13.000 of beer and a bit crazy, you know, And I 1:04:13.160 --> 1:04:16.960 was very relieved. Apart from anything else, they really took 1:04:17.040 --> 1:04:20.120 to us. And the rugby club dancers used to be 1:04:20.320 --> 1:04:23.840 very poorly attended, but it really built up into something. 1:04:23.880 --> 1:04:27.280 That's when we started to build a local following at 1:04:27.360 --> 1:04:30.080 the rugby club I played for, and then we played 1:04:30.080 --> 1:04:32.960 at other rugby clubs as well, and it was really 1:04:33.120 --> 1:04:36.840 shortly after that we won a big rock and roll competition. 1:04:37.560 --> 1:04:41.000 Before you get there when you're rehearsing, what material are 1:04:41.040 --> 1:04:41.600 you playing? 1:04:43.800 --> 1:04:47.800 Well, until we got into the beat until the Beatles happened, 1:04:48.720 --> 1:04:51.440 we were trying to get into as much rhythm and 1:04:51.440 --> 1:04:54.760 blues and blues as we could, although we did play 1:04:54.800 --> 1:04:59.080 pop tunes as well. When we first started, we played 1:04:59.080 --> 1:05:02.439 a lot of instrumental but gradually they started to drop out, 1:05:03.160 --> 1:05:06.560 and I used to play guitar, you know, But they 1:05:06.600 --> 1:05:11.440 gradually dropped out, and then we mostly just played songs. 1:05:11.760 --> 1:05:15.800 I think they got I think they got a little 1:05:15.800 --> 1:05:18.920 bit frustrated because when they played instrumentals and I was 1:05:18.960 --> 1:05:24.640 gradually stopping playing guitar. It's really uncool this, but they 1:05:24.680 --> 1:05:27.000 would do instrumentals and I get off the stage and 1:05:27.080 --> 1:05:33.920 dance with a pretty girl. And I don't blame them. 1:05:34.000 --> 1:05:37.440 It's very unprofessional, you know. And then at the end 1:05:37.520 --> 1:05:39.080 of the song, I'd have to rush back up and 1:05:39.200 --> 1:05:42.640 start singing again. So more and more we were just 1:05:42.680 --> 1:05:43.480 playing songs. 1:05:52.440 --> 1:05:57.160 What happened first, the Battle of the Bands or the Beatles? 1:05:59.800 --> 1:06:01.160 The Beatles happened first. 1:06:01.280 --> 1:06:06.520 Okay, so tell us about the Beatles. Fabulous, I mean, 1:06:06.600 --> 1:06:08.840 how did you hear them? 1:06:09.080 --> 1:06:11.320 But I think by then the BBC were playing a 1:06:11.320 --> 1:06:13.720 few or maybe we were listening to the pirates stations. 1:06:13.760 --> 1:06:15.919 You know, they were on ships out in the sea, 1:06:16.040 --> 1:06:18.680 and so they weren't regulated by the government. So I 1:06:18.680 --> 1:06:22.720 think by then we could we could listen to the music, 1:06:23.280 --> 1:06:28.200 and they just took our breath away. They were just sensational, 1:06:28.640 --> 1:06:32.720 and they wrote their own songs. They changed everything, and 1:06:32.800 --> 1:06:35.600 so this is one of the problems we had. Later on, 1:06:36.000 --> 1:06:39.400 we'd started playing lots of Beatles songs. Well, if you 1:06:39.440 --> 1:06:42.960 have a hit record, you can't your live show can't 1:06:43.000 --> 1:06:46.920 be based on another band. So it created a bit 1:06:46.960 --> 1:06:49.640 of a problem for us. But I know it was 1:06:49.640 --> 1:06:53.680 the Beatles first because in the rock competition that we won, 1:06:54.280 --> 1:06:57.000 one of the songs we played was you Can't Do That, 1:06:57.080 --> 1:07:00.640 which was a B side for the Beatles, a really 1:07:00.720 --> 1:07:03.440 good song actually, and that was one of the songs 1:07:03.480 --> 1:07:04.040 that we played. 1:07:04.880 --> 1:07:10.160 Okay, what is the general tone. Everything happened in America 1:07:10.200 --> 1:07:12.680 a year and a half later. Really, the Beatles in 1:07:13.080 --> 1:07:16.320 UK is sixty two sixty three. Doesn't happen in America 1:07:16.400 --> 1:07:21.360 until sixty four. And then it's a tsunamiavacts Herman Hermon's Billy, 1:07:22.280 --> 1:07:27.440 you know Kramer in the Dakotas. You know, you're still 1:07:28.040 --> 1:07:32.760 trying to make it. Do all these bands start to 1:07:32.840 --> 1:07:34.840 have success and are you aware of them? 1:07:35.560 --> 1:07:38.560 Absolutely? Yeah, But I thought they were in a separate 1:07:38.600 --> 1:07:42.240 world to us, and thought never crossed my mind that, 1:07:43.560 --> 1:07:46.320 you know, we would be playing some of the same 1:07:46.440 --> 1:07:49.560 dates as them, perhaps not the Beatles, but the other ones. 1:07:50.440 --> 1:07:53.680 I thought, you know, we'd just keep playing locally. Really, 1:07:57.160 --> 1:08:02.800 Then we were entered into this rock competition and there 1:08:02.840 --> 1:08:05.160 were one hundred bands, but there were ten bands a 1:08:05.280 --> 1:08:07.520 night for ten weeks, so I know there are one 1:08:07.600 --> 1:08:11.840 hundred bands, and we won our our heat. You know, 1:08:11.960 --> 1:08:17.040 it's really surprised, and this is not false modesty. I 1:08:17.080 --> 1:08:20.280 thought that was fantastic, you know. And then we got 1:08:20.320 --> 1:08:24.840 into the final. I believe it. We won it out 1:08:24.840 --> 1:08:28.320 of all those bands. And one way or another, and 1:08:28.439 --> 1:08:31.200 all the guys in the band remember this differently, but 1:08:31.360 --> 1:08:34.479 one way or another, it led to a contract with 1:08:34.560 --> 1:08:36.840 Decca Records. From memory, I think it was only for 1:08:36.840 --> 1:08:39.800 a single. It wasn't for an album, but we got 1:08:40.120 --> 1:08:42.400 the chance to record in Decca studios. 1:08:42.760 --> 1:08:45.960 Okay, at what point in this story do you stop 1:08:46.040 --> 1:08:46.839 going to school. 1:08:48.160 --> 1:08:52.080 I had just stopped. So Chris White was the oldest 1:08:52.439 --> 1:08:57.559 he'd gone to art school and he just finished three 1:08:57.640 --> 1:09:02.439 years at art school. And Hugh Grandy were roughly the 1:09:02.479 --> 1:09:04.760 same as Rod and I are only ten days apart, 1:09:05.120 --> 1:09:08.640 and we had all worked for a few months. I 1:09:08.680 --> 1:09:12.680 think he was in a bank, Rod was working in 1:09:12.720 --> 1:09:17.160 a the offices of a factory, and I was working 1:09:17.160 --> 1:09:20.280 in an office as well. None of us had embarked 1:09:20.320 --> 1:09:25.759 on huge career projects, you know, So when things started 1:09:25.800 --> 1:09:28.519 to happen with the band, it wasn't a hard decision, 1:09:29.200 --> 1:09:32.160 you know, that we were going to stop doing those jobs. 1:09:32.320 --> 1:09:33.920 But everybody finished school. 1:09:34.200 --> 1:09:37.519 Everybody had finished school. Oh no, I'm sorry, Paul Arnold. 1:09:38.040 --> 1:09:41.280 Paul Atkinson was a year younger than us, so he 1:09:41.360 --> 1:09:45.640 went straight from school into the band, playing professionally. 1:09:45.760 --> 1:09:50.400 Okay, from the time you first started playing out, which 1:09:50.479 --> 1:09:53.800 was a year after you first started playing, how long 1:09:53.920 --> 1:09:57.240 from then until the one hundred BM competition? 1:09:58.160 --> 1:10:02.759 From when we first started playing, well, we first started 1:10:02.760 --> 1:10:08.519 playing in sixty one and the band competition was in 1:10:08.640 --> 1:10:11.200 sixty four. It was in the spring of sixty four. 1:10:11.320 --> 1:10:14.000 Okay, so the first year you just would shedding in 1:10:14.040 --> 1:10:16.559 those two intervening years, what are you doing? 1:10:17.400 --> 1:10:23.080 We're playing anywhere? That would have us anywhere. I remember 1:10:23.120 --> 1:10:26.200 playing at what they would call working men's clubs, but 1:10:26.439 --> 1:10:30.479 you know, probably older men would go there and drink 1:10:30.520 --> 1:10:33.479 beer and talk about the war, probably, and they and 1:10:33.520 --> 1:10:36.080 we would play, and they wouldn't want us to play, really, 1:10:36.120 --> 1:10:42.519 but we would play anyway. We'd play at schools, we 1:10:42.560 --> 1:10:45.479 would just play anywhere, at the youth clubs, anywhere that 1:10:45.520 --> 1:10:46.240 they would have us. 1:10:46.600 --> 1:10:48.080 And were you making any money? 1:10:48.960 --> 1:10:52.679 It wasn't a money making thing. I think from memory, 1:10:52.760 --> 1:10:56.000 I think we would charge six pounds a night. It's 1:10:56.040 --> 1:10:59.360 a precise figure. I know that's what we charged, So 1:10:59.439 --> 1:11:03.000 that would be seven or eight dollars. But the six 1:11:03.040 --> 1:11:05.960 pounds we would use one pound for expenses for everyone 1:11:06.000 --> 1:11:10.520 getting there, and the five pounds we would reinvest in equipment, 1:11:11.160 --> 1:11:14.160 because you know, we still had pretty awful equipment. 1:11:14.600 --> 1:11:17.720 So by time you go to the one hundred band competition, 1:11:18.479 --> 1:11:20.439 what equipment do you have and how good is it? 1:11:21.479 --> 1:11:27.320 That's an interesting point. We had the equipment that we 1:11:27.360 --> 1:11:32.120 recorded She's not there on and some of it was homemade. 1:11:32.280 --> 1:11:35.920 But a big thing for us was Rod discovered a 1:11:36.000 --> 1:11:41.080 keyboard player called a honer pianette, and up until then 1:11:41.200 --> 1:11:43.439 he just had to use whatever piano was there, and 1:11:43.439 --> 1:11:45.720 we put a microphone in the piano and we'd have 1:11:45.760 --> 1:11:47.960 to tune to the piano because often they're tuned down 1:11:48.520 --> 1:11:50.960 and you could never really hear him properly. And I 1:11:51.040 --> 1:11:53.360 used to gauge how well the band had gone by 1:11:53.760 --> 1:11:56.679 how much blood was coming out of his thumb, because 1:11:56.720 --> 1:12:00.599 he used to do these Jerry Lee Lewis blisses and 1:12:00.640 --> 1:12:03.320 if it was going well, he'd really dig in and 1:12:03.400 --> 1:12:06.760 his thumb, you just blood would be dripping out of it. 1:12:06.840 --> 1:12:10.639 And I think that gig went really well tonight. Look 1:12:10.640 --> 1:12:15.160 at Rod's thumb, And that's how we had to do 1:12:15.200 --> 1:12:18.240 it until he got this Honer pianette, and that's a 1:12:18.240 --> 1:12:21.280 whole different ball game. We could hear him properly. The 1:12:21.400 --> 1:12:24.400 unfortunate thing was it had a strange system where it 1:12:24.439 --> 1:12:27.000 had arms that used to go down with little stickers 1:12:27.040 --> 1:12:29.120 on the end of it, and they'd pull off and 1:12:29.160 --> 1:12:32.400 that would pull the note. But we would play, especially 1:12:32.439 --> 1:12:34.759 at these rugby clubs, it would get very hot and sweaty, 1:12:35.200 --> 1:12:40.200 and these stickers wouldn't work properly, and thinking back, I 1:12:40.200 --> 1:12:42.439 don't know how people would put up with this, but 1:12:42.560 --> 1:12:45.120 so that wouldn't work, so Rob would just say, oh, 1:12:45.200 --> 1:12:47.200 we just have to stop for a bit now, and 1:12:47.240 --> 1:12:50.160 he would get his hair dryer out and take up 1:12:50.200 --> 1:12:56.000 the top of the p and dry the stickers. In 1:12:56.240 --> 1:13:00.720 the honer, we'd just I don't know what they did. 1:13:00.880 --> 1:13:04.439 If it's a rugby club, they'd probably be drinking and 1:13:04.439 --> 1:13:08.680 then okay, it's drying out, we start up again. So 1:13:08.720 --> 1:13:11.960 it had its disadvantages to Honah, because if it was 1:13:12.320 --> 1:13:15.519 really hot, it would stop playing. 1:13:16.400 --> 1:13:20.519 But okay, prior to the one hundred billion gig, how 1:13:20.560 --> 1:13:21.559 often are you playing? 1:13:23.680 --> 1:13:26.479 I think we play most weeks, and sometimes it would 1:13:26.479 --> 1:13:31.840 be Friday and Saturday, but sometimes it might only be once. 1:13:32.120 --> 1:13:33.960 And did you rehearse it all or just live? 1:13:35.600 --> 1:13:38.960 We would rehearse on a Sunday and play on either 1:13:38.960 --> 1:13:41.240 a Friday or a Saturday. 1:13:41.439 --> 1:13:45.320 Okay, you win the competition. What happens next? 1:13:47.520 --> 1:13:52.720 We all remember it differently, but eventually we were introduced 1:13:52.720 --> 1:13:53.800 to this guy Ken Jones. 1:13:54.000 --> 1:13:56.080 How long after the competition. 1:13:55.720 --> 1:13:58.320 It must have just been weeks because she's not there. 1:13:58.439 --> 1:14:04.240 Came out July the twenty fourth, nineteen sixty four. My 1:14:04.320 --> 1:14:08.360 birthday is June the twenty fourth. Please send big presents 1:14:08.360 --> 1:14:12.280 because it's coming up, and I know the record came 1:14:12.360 --> 1:14:15.400 up month after my birthday, so it must have all 1:14:15.439 --> 1:14:21.240 happened really quickly, and it was a hit quite quickly. 1:14:21.240 --> 1:14:24.840 Wait, a little bit slower. So you win the competition. 1:14:25.080 --> 1:14:27.720 In the part of the competition is you get a 1:14:27.840 --> 1:14:32.679 single deal with Decca, which Ken Jones is now voisted 1:14:32.800 --> 1:14:34.920 on you. Do you meet Ken Jones because of that 1:14:35.080 --> 1:14:36.000 contrag deal? 1:14:37.320 --> 1:14:40.800 No, he was a friend of Chris White's uncle. This 1:14:40.880 --> 1:14:44.280 is a bit bizarre connection. You know. I didn't know 1:14:44.400 --> 1:14:47.240 Chris White's uncle. I didn't know Ryan Jones. But he 1:14:47.320 --> 1:14:49.719 sat down and read through all these contracts and he said, 1:14:49.760 --> 1:14:51.920 but we can do better than this for you, and 1:14:52.560 --> 1:14:54.320 we went with him. He got us to deal with 1:14:54.360 --> 1:14:58.320 Decca and it was decided we recorded Decca Studios. And 1:14:58.320 --> 1:15:01.080 this is how crazy things are. It would seem to 1:15:01.080 --> 1:15:03.920 be the cool thing to record. Often they would record 1:15:03.960 --> 1:15:06.559 through the night, but we'd started at seven o'clock, so 1:15:06.600 --> 1:15:09.479 we're going to record at least through the evening, if 1:15:09.520 --> 1:15:15.320 not the night. And we were given a very successful 1:15:15.640 --> 1:15:19.840 recording engineer. He had a great track record, but because 1:15:19.880 --> 1:15:22.920 we started at seven at night, he'd been I know 1:15:23.040 --> 1:15:28.640 this sounds bizarre, but he'd been at a wedding all day. Unfortunately, 1:15:28.720 --> 1:15:32.719 he was blind drunk when we turned up, but more 1:15:32.760 --> 1:15:36.920 than that, he was really aggressive as well. And we 1:15:37.040 --> 1:15:39.240 go into the studio at seven o'clock. This guy can 1:15:39.240 --> 1:15:43.280 hardly stand and he's shouting and screaming and coming through 1:15:43.320 --> 1:15:48.479 the headphones really really loud, the language terrible, and I'm thinking, 1:15:48.520 --> 1:15:52.240 after about twenty minutes of this, taking into account I've 1:15:52.240 --> 1:15:55.280 been in the music business for sixty years. After twenty minutes, 1:15:55.320 --> 1:15:58.680 I thought, this isn't for me. This is not for me. 1:15:59.280 --> 1:16:03.240 But then we had a luck. He passed out. We 1:16:03.280 --> 1:16:06.360 had to carry him out of the studio two flights 1:16:06.360 --> 1:16:10.599 of stairs up into a black London taxi and actually 1:16:10.640 --> 1:16:13.599 I never saw him again, and his assistant took over, 1:16:13.760 --> 1:16:18.639 and his assistant was Gus Dudgeon. Really, isn't that bizarre. Yes, 1:16:18.720 --> 1:16:22.400 that's Gus Dudgeon's first session ever. He never forgot that, 1:16:23.160 --> 1:16:25.920 and it was our first session ever. I never forgot 1:16:26.000 --> 1:16:29.040 it either. And in that first session we recorded four 1:16:29.120 --> 1:16:33.320 or five tracks, four maybe, and one of them is 1:16:33.400 --> 1:16:33.920 She's not there. 1:16:34.000 --> 1:16:36.640 Okay, let's go a little bit slower. I want to understand. 1:16:37.439 --> 1:16:43.080 You won the competition, and with that came the ability 1:16:43.120 --> 1:16:45.160 to record. What was the prize exactly? 1:16:45.560 --> 1:16:47.960 Well, this is we all disagree on this. If you 1:16:48.160 --> 1:16:51.120 if Rod was here, he would tell you pass. The 1:16:51.200 --> 1:16:55.439 prize was a deal with Decca, and I'd probably say okay, 1:16:55.760 --> 1:16:59.280 because I don't want to argue it's not true. It's 1:16:59.320 --> 1:17:02.960 not true. We won two hundred and fifty pounds. But 1:17:03.240 --> 1:17:07.360 the interest in having won the competition led us to 1:17:07.479 --> 1:17:10.360 talking to people. It was sponsored by a big newspaper 1:17:10.640 --> 1:17:16.600 and it created an interest. We were introduced to three managers. 1:17:16.680 --> 1:17:20.160 I remember apart from Ken Jones. This is the first 1:17:20.160 --> 1:17:23.880 time manager. One was definitely a crook and he wanted 1:17:23.920 --> 1:17:27.800 to give us drinks and we were so scared of him. 1:17:27.800 --> 1:17:30.360 We wouldn't have a drink. We would hardly sit down, 1:17:30.400 --> 1:17:33.960 and that wasn't going to happen very flash. The second 1:17:34.000 --> 1:17:38.799 guy greeted us at his flat door in a silk 1:17:39.080 --> 1:17:42.479 dressing gown, and I thought, I don't think this is 1:17:42.560 --> 1:17:46.160 really for us. And he floated around and mentioned a 1:17:46.200 --> 1:17:48.640 few things, but then he came to the door to 1:17:48.680 --> 1:17:51.120 see us off, and he locked himself out of his 1:17:51.240 --> 1:17:54.800 flat in his silk dressing gown. I thought, if he 1:17:54.920 --> 1:17:57.880 can't get that together, he's not going to manage this band. 1:17:58.240 --> 1:17:59.840 We had to go around to the back of this 1:18:00.080 --> 1:18:01.919 lack of block of flats and they had a system 1:18:02.479 --> 1:18:06.680 on hoists for getting dustbins up to the flats and 1:18:06.760 --> 1:18:08.760 down like that. I mean, he has it's quite an 1:18:08.800 --> 1:18:12.320 older gentleman. And to get this older gentleman into this 1:18:12.400 --> 1:18:15.920 kind of open box. It had sides on it, but 1:18:15.920 --> 1:18:17.600 it didn't have a back in the front, and he 1:18:17.720 --> 1:18:20.040 had to crouch down in this thing where the dustbin 1:18:20.120 --> 1:18:23.080 would go, and we had to hoist him up to 1:18:23.160 --> 1:18:25.200 his flat, which is on the first and the second one. 1:18:25.240 --> 1:18:29.679 Bloody dangerous, I think first or second one. I thought, firstly, 1:18:29.800 --> 1:18:32.719 please don't let me look up and see what's happening 1:18:32.800 --> 1:18:35.559 under the silk dressing gown. So I'm definitely looking at 1:18:35.560 --> 1:18:38.719 the floor while I'm pulling on this rope. And secondly, 1:18:38.800 --> 1:18:41.840 please don't let him manage the band because he can't 1:18:41.880 --> 1:18:45.479 even sort out his door key, let alone manager band. 1:18:45.520 --> 1:18:49.200 So that that went, and then yeah, we got a manager. 1:18:49.880 --> 1:18:58.599 Okay. In the movie it says that Ken Jones says, well, 1:18:58.680 --> 1:19:01.120 you know, if you want to write some original material, 1:19:01.240 --> 1:19:03.920 and it says Rod goes off and write, She's not there. 1:19:04.320 --> 1:19:05.360 What really happened. 1:19:05.560 --> 1:19:09.280 It's true. He was giving us a pep talk two 1:19:09.320 --> 1:19:12.400 weeks before the session, and this is just a part 1:19:12.840 --> 1:19:17.479 of the pep talk. I can't remember what you should rehearse, guys, 1:19:17.520 --> 1:19:19.400 this is really important, you know, and you get one 1:19:19.479 --> 1:19:22.200 by the Apple. I can't remember what he said, but 1:19:22.320 --> 1:19:24.760 in the middle of it he said, you know, you 1:19:24.800 --> 1:19:27.240 could always write something for the session, and then went 1:19:27.280 --> 1:19:30.840 on and spoke about other things. It. You know, I 1:19:30.880 --> 1:19:34.960 couldn't think in terms of a band writing their own songs. 1:19:35.520 --> 1:19:37.960 I should have, really, because the Beatles had already started 1:19:38.000 --> 1:19:41.559 doing that. But Rod and Chris went off and wrote 1:19:41.560 --> 1:19:45.000 two songs in the next two or three days. Rod 1:19:45.000 --> 1:19:46.960 wrote She's Not There and Chris wrote the B side, 1:19:47.000 --> 1:19:49.599 which is a good song too, you Make Me Feel Good. 1:19:50.000 --> 1:19:52.360 And that was it. 1:19:52.479 --> 1:19:55.360 Okay, before you went into the studio to cut them, 1:19:55.840 --> 1:19:56.920 did you rehearse them? 1:19:57.000 --> 1:20:00.720 We did. We rehearsed them a lot, and I think 1:20:00.760 --> 1:20:04.120 we all thought that they were special songs. Sometimes I 1:20:04.160 --> 1:20:06.479 say to myself, but I knew She's Not There was 1:20:06.520 --> 1:20:08.800 really special. But I'm going to be really honest with you. 1:20:09.880 --> 1:20:13.680 We were in two minds whether She's Not There or 1:20:13.680 --> 1:20:15.439 the B side You Make Me Feel Good was the 1:20:15.439 --> 1:20:19.360 better song when we were recording it, so it was 1:20:19.400 --> 1:20:23.160 only afterwards that She's not there was chosen. It's funny, 1:20:23.200 --> 1:20:26.920 isn't I mean? Now, of course it's a fantastic song, 1:20:27.000 --> 1:20:27.200 you know. 1:20:27.320 --> 1:20:29.920 Okay, you record four songs the first night. 1:20:30.040 --> 1:20:34.439 Then what happened, Well, the A side was chosen and 1:20:34.479 --> 1:20:37.200 it came out very quickly. Things always moved very quickly 1:20:37.320 --> 1:20:39.760 back in the sun. How quickly, well, I think it was, 1:20:39.960 --> 1:20:43.320 you know, four or five weeks through or four weeks 1:20:43.760 --> 1:20:44.360 something like that. 1:20:44.439 --> 1:20:49.240 Okay, the record is done. Let's you know, it's totally different. 1:20:49.240 --> 1:20:51.960 I don't know. You're recording the one track back, then 1:20:52.040 --> 1:20:52.840 recording mono. 1:20:53.240 --> 1:20:55.040 We're recording fast four track. 1:20:55.240 --> 1:21:00.360 Okay, so it's four track, you know, normally forget you're 1:21:00.360 --> 1:21:01.559 all playing at the same time. 1:21:02.080 --> 1:21:06.680 No, the band played, and then we did the vocals 1:21:07.200 --> 1:21:09.920 they did back in vocal Rodin christed, but we're on 1:21:09.920 --> 1:21:12.960 one track. Roden Christ did back in vocals, run one 1:21:13.040 --> 1:21:15.720 mic and I'm here in the same room at the 1:21:15.720 --> 1:21:18.160 same time singing the lead vocal. And of course it's 1:21:18.200 --> 1:21:18.759 all one. 1:21:18.640 --> 1:21:26.960 Take, okay, and the instrumental part. Those were on how 1:21:26.960 --> 1:21:29.120 many tracks and how many times did it take to 1:21:29.120 --> 1:21:29.479 get that? 1:21:30.080 --> 1:21:33.080 Oh, it's really quick. I mean, yeah, they might have 1:21:33.160 --> 1:21:35.880 done four or five takes, but that would that would 1:21:35.880 --> 1:21:38.000 have been it. I think based in drums is on 1:21:38.000 --> 1:21:45.200 one guitar and keyboards was on another track, and then 1:21:46.080 --> 1:21:50.439 lead vocal and backing vocals were on separate tracks. It 1:21:50.520 --> 1:21:51.599 was something like that. 1:21:52.280 --> 1:21:57.080 Okay. So I mean, now there's so much equipment, but 1:21:57.360 --> 1:22:01.880 you record, then you have to mix. In the modern world, 1:22:01.880 --> 1:22:04.160 there's been this way for decades to this point. You 1:22:04.240 --> 1:22:07.200 might add compression, you might add weaverb you might take 1:22:07.200 --> 1:22:10.839 a whole day to do one song. Okay, so everybody 1:22:10.920 --> 1:22:13.800 touched the stuff. Do you remember what it took and 1:22:13.920 --> 1:22:16.160 when it was that it was mixed down to the single. 1:22:16.400 --> 1:22:19.080 Well, this is a bone of contention with us. Ken 1:22:19.160 --> 1:22:23.519 Jones was very strict with us and he would never 1:22:23.600 --> 1:22:27.400 let us go to the mixes and so that was 1:22:27.840 --> 1:22:32.439 all done. You know, we weren't there, We weren't involved 1:22:32.439 --> 1:22:36.400 in the mixes at all. I know, for instance, that 1:22:36.560 --> 1:22:39.040 he put a lot of compression on She's not there 1:22:39.080 --> 1:22:42.080 because people are always talking about the breaths, you know, right, 1:22:42.720 --> 1:22:44.479 I can't remember where it comes down. And told me 1:22:44.520 --> 1:22:47.960 about her the way she liked that's the thing. And 1:22:49.000 --> 1:22:51.840 I mean some of that's real, but some of it 1:22:51.479 --> 1:22:57.000 is helped by the compression that's on the track. But 1:22:57.120 --> 1:23:00.519 I think overall, and she's not there, sounds great. I think. 1:23:02.200 --> 1:23:05.599 That's the whole thing. Yeah, it sounds not rough at all. 1:23:05.680 --> 1:23:07.639 It sounds very modern to this day. 1:23:07.920 --> 1:23:10.759 I agree with you. I agree with you. But after 1:23:10.840 --> 1:23:14.599 that session, I think we always struggled as a band 1:23:14.920 --> 1:23:18.640 accepting the mixes, and there were some quite fierce arguments 1:23:19.479 --> 1:23:22.360 about why we weren't allowed to go into the mixes. 1:23:22.840 --> 1:23:26.280 But that first session and summertime also, I think is 1:23:26.520 --> 1:23:30.479 a lovely track, and you made Me feel good. And 1:23:31.200 --> 1:23:36.080 there was another real punky song that Rod wrote, It's 1:23:36.120 --> 1:23:40.439 Alright with Me. We played that really recently. It's mad song, 1:23:40.680 --> 1:23:44.280 but it's like a punk song, and all of those 1:23:44.320 --> 1:23:45.640 I think, so that was it. I think it was 1:23:45.680 --> 1:23:48.479 four tracks and I thought they all sounded great. But 1:23:48.800 --> 1:23:52.719 after that we were never really happy with the mixes. 1:23:52.760 --> 1:23:56.880 And I know, I keep moving forward. But the last 1:23:56.920 --> 1:23:58.920 one we did was a cover of Little antonin the 1:23:58.960 --> 1:24:02.439 Imperials going Out of My Head, and they mixed it 1:24:02.520 --> 1:24:05.400 while we were out of the country. Well, we wouldn't 1:24:05.439 --> 1:24:08.599 have been in the mix mixing studio anyway. But anyway, 1:24:08.640 --> 1:24:12.240 we came back and we were so disappointed. It had 1:24:12.400 --> 1:24:16.639 been no resemblance to how we left it in our minds, 1:24:16.920 --> 1:24:19.200 and that was the end of our And it was 1:24:19.240 --> 1:24:23.479 a fairly friendly breakup with Ken Jones. And that's when 1:24:24.920 --> 1:24:27.760 especially Rod and Chris decided they wanted to make an 1:24:27.760 --> 1:24:32.360 album with them in the production chair. And that's when 1:24:32.360 --> 1:24:36.080 we recorded Odyssey on Oracle. There was no independent producer 1:24:36.439 --> 1:24:39.600 in the studio. It was Rod and Chris produced that 1:24:40.000 --> 1:24:45.160 with the help of the wonderful Abbey Road engineers Jeff 1:24:45.160 --> 1:24:49.240 Emerick and Peter Vince, absolutely wonderful engineers. 1:24:58.240 --> 1:25:00.680 Okay, let's go back the first night you're recording the 1:25:00.720 --> 1:25:04.840 four songs recorded on four tracks. Do they do a 1:25:04.960 --> 1:25:07.760 rough mix, you know, instantaneously so you could hear it, 1:25:07.880 --> 1:25:09.920 or did you never even hear everybody together? 1:25:12.160 --> 1:25:16.240 I think I probably heard a rough idea of it. Yeah, 1:25:16.400 --> 1:25:18.000 it is sixty something years. 1:25:18.360 --> 1:25:20.840 I guess what I'm saying is I'm wondering what the 1:25:21.000 --> 1:25:25.759 experience is when you actually hear it, go, Holy fuck, 1:25:25.920 --> 1:25:29.439 this is this is unbelievable. Was that after the mix 1:25:29.560 --> 1:25:31.360 or never until it became a hit. 1:25:33.240 --> 1:25:37.920 I didn't think I ever really felt like that. I'm 1:25:37.960 --> 1:25:40.920 trying to remember. I think I thought it was pretty good. 1:25:42.600 --> 1:25:46.040 Okay, it comes ounds very it comes out in like 1:25:46.120 --> 1:25:49.320 three weeks. Yeah, I mean we're in America, it's different. 1:25:49.320 --> 1:25:51.879 It's already hit in England by the time it gets here. Yeah, 1:25:52.240 --> 1:25:54.679 how did the ascension on the track? How did it break? 1:25:55.360 --> 1:25:58.080 Well, I'll tell you one thing that happened. There was 1:25:58.120 --> 1:26:01.680 a TV show in the UK called Jukebox Jury, so 1:26:01.720 --> 1:26:08.360 they'd have five stars would vote on whether the particular 1:26:08.400 --> 1:26:11.040 record would They would pay play thirty seconds of a 1:26:11.120 --> 1:26:13.000 record and then they'd vote whether this is going to 1:26:13.000 --> 1:26:15.439 be a hit or a miss. And on the week 1:26:15.560 --> 1:26:19.559 when She's Not There came out, George Harrison was on 1:26:19.920 --> 1:26:23.760 the panel of Jukebox Jury and they played She's Not 1:26:23.880 --> 1:26:26.680 There and he loved it. And I remember, and I 1:26:26.720 --> 1:26:30.160 won't try and do a Liverpool accent, but I remember 1:26:30.280 --> 1:26:34.439 he said, well done, Zombies. Obviously he didn't know us, 1:26:34.880 --> 1:26:37.879 he didn't know us from Adam, but he said, well done, zombies. 1:26:38.880 --> 1:26:40.959 That was a thrill when. 1:26:41.680 --> 1:26:42.920 Oh, sure it was. 1:26:43.160 --> 1:26:47.599 When George Harrison said She's Not There was a good 1:26:47.680 --> 1:26:53.599 record well, blimey, yeah, that really took my breath away. 1:26:54.280 --> 1:26:57.040 Okay, it was on TV. That's a huge step. But 1:26:57.400 --> 1:27:00.479 when did it start to become successful really quickly? 1:27:01.400 --> 1:27:03.760 It's funny because I don't think Deca were particularly keen 1:27:03.840 --> 1:27:08.400 on it. I don't know. I'm sure they weren't, but 1:27:08.439 --> 1:27:12.400 it was a hit very quickly. Funnily enough, it came 1:27:12.439 --> 1:27:17.920 out in America about three months later on Parrot on 1:27:18.120 --> 1:27:22.760 Parrot and London Records who owned the Parrot, they weren't 1:27:22.800 --> 1:27:26.759 keen on it either, But although it came out later, 1:27:26.920 --> 1:27:29.679 it was a hit quite quickly in America as well. 1:27:29.960 --> 1:27:30.880 It's funny, isn't it. 1:27:31.640 --> 1:27:36.519 The record is a hit. This was a lark. Yes, yeah. 1:27:37.520 --> 1:27:40.400 What's going through your mind? And what happens? 1:27:41.920 --> 1:27:44.479 I think when you're young, you see, I don't know 1:27:44.520 --> 1:27:46.599 the answer to that question, but I think when you're 1:27:46.640 --> 1:27:51.880 young you take an awful lot for granted. It's you know, 1:27:52.760 --> 1:27:55.240 you just get on with it, don't you. Really. So 1:27:55.840 --> 1:27:58.800 one day you're an amateur band playing at the local 1:27:58.920 --> 1:28:05.200 rugby club and the next day, inexplicably, you're on huge tours. 1:28:05.240 --> 1:28:07.600 They used to these package tours in the UK, and 1:28:07.640 --> 1:28:12.080 our management company was very involved in that. So shortly 1:28:12.120 --> 1:28:15.519 after we played the old Varion Alium's rugby club, and 1:28:15.560 --> 1:28:20.200 where Rod's drying his keyboard with the hair with the 1:28:20.320 --> 1:28:26.479 hair dryer, We're touring with the Searchers, Deal Morriic and 1:28:26.840 --> 1:28:31.520 the Isisley Brothers and some other artists as well around 1:28:31.760 --> 1:28:34.760 some of the major venues in the UK. Wasn't a 1:28:34.760 --> 1:28:38.519 big gap and we just had to get on with it. 1:28:39.920 --> 1:28:46.040 How was the reception in those multi gig tours insane? 1:28:47.120 --> 1:28:50.040 I often said that, certainly for the first couple of years, 1:28:50.400 --> 1:28:52.679 I needn't a bothered singing at all. Really, I don't 1:28:52.680 --> 1:28:58.040 think anybody heard anything very very noisy on those tours. 1:28:59.000 --> 1:29:00.679 How many songs would you play? 1:29:01.520 --> 1:29:06.719 Not many? Two or three? Four? Maybe? 1:29:07.439 --> 1:29:11.160 Okay, So now the records are hit, how often are 1:29:11.160 --> 1:29:12.920 you working? 1:29:12.960 --> 1:29:16.439 We were working at a lot, working all the time, 1:29:17.000 --> 1:29:19.920 and at the same time the pressure's on from Decca Records. 1:29:20.240 --> 1:29:23.240 We need another single in six weeks and that was 1:29:23.360 --> 1:29:25.760 all the time we were with Decca. Another single in 1:29:25.840 --> 1:29:29.519 six weeks. But the problem we had was the challenge 1:29:29.560 --> 1:29:33.360 that we had was that Rod Argent and Chris White 1:29:33.400 --> 1:29:36.559 had only just discovered that they could write songs, so 1:29:36.640 --> 1:29:39.519 they didn't have a back catalog of songs, and they're 1:29:39.560 --> 1:29:43.360 trying to write as we're going along, but we're touring 1:29:43.360 --> 1:29:46.599 all the time, so there wasn't much time. The pressure 1:29:46.680 --> 1:29:51.479 really went on for a follow up, and Rod had nothing, 1:29:52.120 --> 1:29:55.120 and Chris White had one song and it was a 1:29:55.120 --> 1:29:58.120 song called leave Me Be, and none of us thought 1:29:58.200 --> 1:30:01.120 instead of hope and hell, of being a single. But 1:30:01.680 --> 1:30:05.599 we we didn't understand enough about the record industry to 1:30:05.680 --> 1:30:08.519 dig our heels in and say, well, you'll just you'll 1:30:08.520 --> 1:30:11.519 have to wait, And so leave Me Be was released. 1:30:11.600 --> 1:30:15.360 Unfortunately it wasn't a hit, and it's it just seems 1:30:15.400 --> 1:30:18.720 so such a short sighted way of doing things that 1:30:18.760 --> 1:30:23.080 Decker would put the pressure on like that. It's almost 1:30:23.960 --> 1:30:26.479 you know that in a very short period of time 1:30:26.520 --> 1:30:28.599 your career is going to be over because they want 1:30:28.720 --> 1:30:32.480 singles all the time, and no one can keep producing 1:30:32.520 --> 1:30:36.960 singles self for what's the word, I can't think there's an. 1:30:36.840 --> 1:30:38.520 Extreme fulfilling prophecy. 1:30:38.360 --> 1:30:44.679 Self fulfilling prophecy. Yeah, you can't keep putting out singles 1:30:44.680 --> 1:30:47.120 every six Well, I mean, I suppose the Beatles did, 1:30:47.120 --> 1:30:49.400 but they were the exception. We certainly couldn't. 1:30:49.720 --> 1:30:52.960 So how does tell her no come to be recorded. 1:30:55.240 --> 1:30:59.040 I you know, we were kept on by Decker even 1:30:59.080 --> 1:31:04.479 though we'd had this flop record, And again we were 1:31:04.520 --> 1:31:09.920 recording through the night, and I can't remember how many 1:31:10.000 --> 1:31:13.400 other songs we recorded, but I remember how one of 1:31:13.439 --> 1:31:16.760 the trigger for writing that song for Rod because we 1:31:17.520 --> 1:31:20.639 toured with Dean Morrick and she was singing a lot 1:31:20.680 --> 1:31:25.640 of Bert Baccarak songs and Rob was really impressed with 1:31:25.720 --> 1:31:29.479 those songs and the kind of chords that they've made 1:31:29.560 --> 1:31:33.599 up those songs. He's not copying anything in the songs, 1:31:33.640 --> 1:31:37.559 but he's just I can hear it now, Yeah, tell 1:31:37.600 --> 1:31:41.280 her those sounds like a really simple song, and melodically 1:31:41.479 --> 1:31:44.120 it is, but if you get someone to try and 1:31:44.280 --> 1:31:47.760 play it, it's not simple. It's not simple at all. 1:31:48.280 --> 1:31:51.280 And he'd used the idea of some of those chords 1:31:51.320 --> 1:31:54.840 from Burt Bacharak, So that's how that came about. Again, 1:31:54.880 --> 1:31:59.599 we were recording late, and as it happens, they did 1:31:59.640 --> 1:32:04.040 all the tracks first, and I fell asleep and they 1:32:04.040 --> 1:32:08.000 woke me up to same tell him, and I went 1:32:08.080 --> 1:32:10.559 up there and I sang it, but the second chorus 1:32:11.000 --> 1:32:13.680 I was still half asleep, and the second chorus I 1:32:13.760 --> 1:32:16.759 just mumbled my way through it, but I kept going. 1:32:17.560 --> 1:32:19.519 And then I went into the control room aarters and 1:32:19.520 --> 1:32:22.759 I said to Kenja's I'm really sorry. You know, I 1:32:22.840 --> 1:32:24.800 just mumbled through that second chorus. I mean, can you 1:32:24.880 --> 1:32:27.360 drop me in and I'll just do that. Don't worry 1:32:27.400 --> 1:32:32.040 about that. That's fine, that's fine. And obviously he understood 1:32:32.040 --> 1:32:35.000 the record industry better than me, because there's a mumbled 1:32:35.240 --> 1:32:38.479 second chorus. The record went to number six in America 1:32:38.520 --> 1:32:42.959 and pretty much sold a million copies, so he understood 1:32:42.960 --> 1:32:43.840 it better than I did. 1:32:45.040 --> 1:32:48.719 Okay, so now you have the success, when's the first 1:32:48.760 --> 1:32:49.800 time you get a check? 1:32:53.640 --> 1:32:57.400 Well, I know we were getting checks. It's funnily enough, 1:32:57.479 --> 1:33:00.400 I don't. I think we did quite well out of 1:33:00.479 --> 1:33:04.000 the records, not thousands and thousands, but enough to live. 1:33:05.240 --> 1:33:07.880 But I remember getting checks more for time of the 1:33:07.960 --> 1:33:09.920 season than I do for. 1:33:11.240 --> 1:33:15.559 I'm actually asking question less about the checks. You're just 1:33:15.680 --> 1:33:19.160 dirt bags hanging out in your hometown. Now you have 1:33:19.200 --> 1:33:22.880 a hit record. When you go back home, there are 1:33:22.920 --> 1:33:25.040 people who love you, and there are people will hate you. 1:33:25.120 --> 1:33:27.680 I mean, you come back the conquering heroes. 1:33:29.560 --> 1:33:31.720 Exactly what you said. I think there were people that 1:33:31.920 --> 1:33:35.439 admired us, but you know, a lot of young guys 1:33:36.120 --> 1:33:38.960 could be problems. And I can remember, this is my 1:33:39.080 --> 1:33:41.320 sort of attitude to it. Always it's not going to 1:33:41.439 --> 1:33:44.519 change me. This is not But it's really naive to 1:33:44.560 --> 1:33:48.479 think like that because it changes other people. Doesn't matter 1:33:48.479 --> 1:33:52.120 whether you change or not, they change. And I used 1:33:52.120 --> 1:33:54.439 to love to go to the rugby clubs. I'd love 1:33:54.479 --> 1:33:56.759 to go to the pub and have a few pints 1:33:57.320 --> 1:34:01.000 and some guy becoming up, who do you think you are? 1:34:03.600 --> 1:34:05.960 Before you know where you are? You know, they're rolling 1:34:05.960 --> 1:34:07.800 their sleeves up and they want to fight, you know. 1:34:08.439 --> 1:34:13.640 So yeah, there were a few challenges locally. I was 1:34:13.680 --> 1:34:16.320 never a very good fighter, but I did get involved 1:34:16.360 --> 1:34:18.479 in a few fights. And I can't fight my way 1:34:18.479 --> 1:34:21.919 out of a paper bag. I think famously at Rod's 1:34:22.160 --> 1:34:24.519 twenty first, he sort of turned away for a minute 1:34:24.520 --> 1:34:27.240 and I got in a fight. He said, I turned around, 1:34:27.280 --> 1:34:30.200 You've got one sleeve pulled off your pullover and blood 1:34:30.200 --> 1:34:32.320 streaming down your nose. I need to turn around for 1:34:32.400 --> 1:34:35.280 a second. And this guy, you know, just to get 1:34:35.320 --> 1:34:38.320 him frisky, and you're off. So there was a little 1:34:38.320 --> 1:34:38.760 bit of that. 1:34:39.720 --> 1:34:41.400 What'd your parents say? 1:34:42.040 --> 1:34:44.759 I think my parents they weren't too keen on the fighting. 1:34:45.880 --> 1:34:49.479 But I think my parents are immensely proud actually, and 1:34:49.520 --> 1:34:53.120 I'm very encouraging. You know. They were wonderful people. 1:34:53.320 --> 1:34:59.559 Okay, so what point did you start discussing going to America. 1:35:00.600 --> 1:35:03.240 It was quite soon, I guess when it was a 1:35:03.320 --> 1:35:06.799 hit record. I know when we arrived here. We arrived 1:35:06.800 --> 1:35:10.200 here just before Christmas nineteen sixty four, and we played 1:35:10.560 --> 1:35:15.000 Murray the Kay's Christmas Show and we opened on Christmas 1:35:15.120 --> 1:35:20.760 Day and we would play six, seven, eight shows a day, 1:35:21.000 --> 1:35:24.200 but you only played two tunes, and there was fourteen 1:35:24.280 --> 1:35:31.760 or sixteen acts Shangri Las, Dean Warwick again, Benny King, 1:35:32.680 --> 1:35:37.200 the Charell's, Chuck Jackson, lots of wonderful life, and we 1:35:37.280 --> 1:35:41.320 had to follow Patti LaBelle and the Bluebells. How would 1:35:41.360 --> 1:35:45.160 you remember, We've only just come into the business and 1:35:45.640 --> 1:35:50.360 we're standing in the wings watching herb bring the house down. 1:35:50.800 --> 1:35:54.680 They were wonderful and we had to follow them. But 1:35:55.080 --> 1:35:58.559 it was okay, it was all right. And that was 1:35:58.600 --> 1:36:01.040 a little bit of a nerve wracking moment. I've got 1:36:01.080 --> 1:36:05.320 to be honest, But okay, all those acts are there 1:36:05.320 --> 1:36:09.960 at the Brooklyn Fox. Are you all hanging together being friends. Yes, 1:36:10.000 --> 1:36:12.360 to a large extent we were. There was great camaraderie 1:36:12.400 --> 1:36:17.280 backstage because although we are abroad, you know, we're British 1:36:17.280 --> 1:36:20.120 and there American. We opened on Christmas Day. They're away 1:36:20.160 --> 1:36:22.639 from their families on Christmas Day the same as we are. 1:36:23.200 --> 1:36:26.400 So yeah, they were very supportive and there was really 1:36:26.400 --> 1:36:29.040 great camaraderie backstage for the most part. 1:36:29.240 --> 1:36:31.479 How what was it being in America. 1:36:31.920 --> 1:36:34.600 It's very different. I was thinking about it on this 1:36:35.040 --> 1:36:38.280 trip over here. Now America and the UK are much 1:36:38.320 --> 1:36:41.839 more similar now, but then it was very very different. 1:36:42.520 --> 1:36:46.200 Got off the plane and we're walking into you know 1:36:46.560 --> 1:36:49.960 where you show your passports and everything. This guy's got 1:36:49.960 --> 1:36:53.479 a bloody gun. He's got a gun. I've never seen 1:36:53.479 --> 1:36:57.680 a gun before. It was really scary. Anyway, this is 1:36:57.720 --> 1:37:02.439 what happened to me. My mom never quite got into 1:37:02.439 --> 1:37:04.439 the swing of me being in a band and everything 1:37:04.520 --> 1:37:07.840 like that. So we went to the airport. There were 1:37:07.920 --> 1:37:10.320 lots of people seeing us off at the airport. She 1:37:10.520 --> 1:37:14.360 fought her way through and gave me a pack lunch 1:37:14.479 --> 1:37:19.960 with an apple to take on the plane. And so 1:37:20.640 --> 1:37:23.320 I think I had eaten the sandwiches, but I hadn't 1:37:23.320 --> 1:37:26.759 eaten the apple. So the man with the gun opens 1:37:26.840 --> 1:37:30.880 my bag. He took my mom's apple out of my 1:37:31.000 --> 1:37:34.759 bag and he ate it in front of me. I thought, 1:37:35.680 --> 1:37:39.800 this is really not very cool. Anyway, I kept quiet. 1:37:39.800 --> 1:37:42.559 He got a gun, and then the next guy I 1:37:42.600 --> 1:37:45.920 spoke to took me off out of the line and 1:37:46.600 --> 1:37:49.160 he had a gun too. Took me off out of 1:37:49.160 --> 1:37:52.800 the line. I'm in trouble. He walked me across the 1:37:52.840 --> 1:37:57.240 hall and into a phone booze and made a phone call, 1:37:57.360 --> 1:38:00.720 and he said, this is my daughter. Would you just 1:38:00.760 --> 1:38:04.639 say hello to I thought I was going to be arrested. 1:38:06.880 --> 1:38:09.519 So that was that was our entry into America. And 1:38:09.520 --> 1:38:14.599 then we were met by two big Cadillac or Lincoln 1:38:15.080 --> 1:38:18.880 limousines and run to the airport. And the next day 1:38:18.880 --> 1:38:24.320 the record company sent us the bill for the You know, 1:38:24.520 --> 1:38:26.800 I would have taken the subway if I'd known we're 1:38:26.840 --> 1:38:30.559 going to be built for them. So that then that 1:38:30.720 --> 1:38:32.479 was our entry into America. 1:38:33.120 --> 1:38:39.479 Okay, you go back. I assume you tour until you 1:38:39.600 --> 1:38:41.400 come back to go on the Dick Clark tour. 1:38:41.920 --> 1:38:46.680 M I don't remember too much about what happened when 1:38:46.720 --> 1:38:51.240 we went back to the UK, but yes, we came 1:38:51.280 --> 1:38:54.240 back and toured on the Dick Clark Tour, which but 1:38:54.400 --> 1:38:56.439 because with Mary the Kay we'd just been in New 1:38:56.520 --> 1:38:59.320 York and I think we played on the first Hullablue 1:38:59.400 --> 1:39:05.920 TV show. Jack Jones was the compare. The New Christian 1:39:05.960 --> 1:39:09.160 Minstrels were on there, and you know, and we were 1:39:09.160 --> 1:39:12.120 on there, and then we went home and we came 1:39:12.200 --> 1:39:19.040 back for the Dick Clark Caravan of Stars and we 1:39:19.120 --> 1:39:22.720 were on a bus for for six weeks with Del 1:39:22.800 --> 1:39:34.240 Shannon and the ad Libs, the Valvelettes, lots of wonderful acts. 1:39:31.479 --> 1:39:37.040 Well I've forgotten who some of them were. Now, isn't 1:39:37.040 --> 1:39:37.559 it awful? 1:39:38.000 --> 1:39:41.920 Okay? But you're on the you know, it's different now 1:39:42.200 --> 1:39:46.719 many acts prefer a bus to going commercial plane anyway, 1:39:47.080 --> 1:39:49.799 but they have these births. You're going on a regular 1:39:49.920 --> 1:39:51.639 bus and you got to sit there and you got 1:39:51.680 --> 1:39:53.559 to sleep on the bus. What's that like? 1:39:54.360 --> 1:39:57.799 It was tough, I tell you, because some of the acts, 1:39:58.000 --> 1:40:00.040 I mean, we weren't being paid very much. But some 1:40:00.080 --> 1:40:02.599 of them we've been paying so little that they couldn't 1:40:02.600 --> 1:40:07.000 afford a hotel every night. So on alternate nights we 1:40:07.040 --> 1:40:09.840 would leave the gig as slowly as possible, and they 1:40:09.880 --> 1:40:13.920 would drive through the night very slowly, so we'd we'd 1:40:13.920 --> 1:40:17.160 sleep on the bus but in regular seats, you know, 1:40:18.000 --> 1:40:21.160 and and we'd arrive and hope that we could get 1:40:21.160 --> 1:40:24.599 into the hotel the next night. So it was it 1:40:24.680 --> 1:40:28.880 was challenging. But we were young, but it was it 1:40:28.920 --> 1:40:29.679 was quite tough. 1:40:30.840 --> 1:40:35.759 Okay. So the American perspective is, we're just living our lives. 1:40:35.800 --> 1:40:39.760 The Beatles hit, there's a British invasion, you're part of that. 1:40:40.120 --> 1:40:44.519 We see you as equal to all the other racks. Okay, 1:40:45.479 --> 1:40:46.880 did it feel like that to you? 1:40:49.960 --> 1:40:53.120 We weren't. I think that. I think there were there 1:40:53.120 --> 1:40:55.320 were the top, the top ones, you know. I mean 1:40:55.320 --> 1:40:58.080 obviously the Beatles were that they were on their own, 1:40:58.800 --> 1:41:02.600 the Stones probably, and then there are other ones that, 1:41:02.800 --> 1:41:06.760 funnily enough, were really successful here that weren't so successful 1:41:07.000 --> 1:41:11.680 in the UK. So Herman's Hermits were huge here. We 1:41:11.720 --> 1:41:14.559 played with them and I saw the audience reaction they got, 1:41:15.040 --> 1:41:18.880 but they weren't so big in the UK. The Dave 1:41:18.920 --> 1:41:22.320 Clark five weren't so big in the UK as they 1:41:22.360 --> 1:41:25.640 were here, and we weren't on a par with them, 1:41:26.000 --> 1:41:28.479 So it was kind of like a league, you know, 1:41:28.520 --> 1:41:31.439 they were the top ones, and I think we were Oh. 1:41:31.439 --> 1:41:34.040 Well, yeah, you were seen as top tier from the 1:41:34.040 --> 1:41:38.840 American perspective. So you go on the second American tour 1:41:39.000 --> 1:41:43.760 that's sixty five. In the movie the documentary, you talk 1:41:43.800 --> 1:41:46.320 about going to the Philippines. When does that happen? 1:41:46.960 --> 1:41:49.160 That was towards the end of the band. That was 1:41:49.200 --> 1:41:51.599 in sixty seven, and it. 1:41:51.520 --> 1:41:53.439 Was wait, wait, wait, so let's not go there. Okay, 1:41:54.200 --> 1:41:58.160 walk me through what happens between the Dick Clark tour 1:41:58.360 --> 1:41:59.880 leading up to the end of the band. 1:42:00.840 --> 1:42:07.000 Well, I think that in many ways things were slipping. 1:42:08.040 --> 1:42:13.200 The records weren't charting, well, they were charting, but very 1:42:13.240 --> 1:42:16.439 low down, you know. And also I think that we 1:42:17.080 --> 1:42:22.200 concentrated or put our attention too much towards the UK 1:42:22.560 --> 1:42:25.639 and America. These are the charts that we followed. Because 1:42:25.680 --> 1:42:30.000 when the band finished, we realized that the Zombies always 1:42:30.040 --> 1:42:33.400 had a hit somewhere in the world the whole time 1:42:33.400 --> 1:42:37.439 we're together, which seems insane, but there was no Internet 1:42:37.479 --> 1:42:40.559 in those days, and often you might you might never 1:42:40.640 --> 1:42:43.599 find out that you'd had a hit, but you also 1:42:43.680 --> 1:42:46.559 might find out months later that you'd had a hit, 1:42:46.960 --> 1:42:49.240 And of course you would have liked to have been 1:42:49.280 --> 1:42:51.839 there to promote it and maybe hopefully play some dates, 1:42:51.880 --> 1:42:56.080 you know, but we never knew. The Zombies always had 1:42:56.120 --> 1:42:59.880 a hit somewhere, but they didn't know it, and so 1:43:00.000 --> 1:43:03.879 so it seemed as though that most awful of things 1:43:03.960 --> 1:43:07.840 in Koreas, if you like, we started at the top 1:43:08.360 --> 1:43:11.800 and then gradually slipped down the pole, you know, even 1:43:11.840 --> 1:43:14.240 though I think we were getting better as a band, 1:43:15.960 --> 1:43:19.960 there was that last record going out of my head. 1:43:20.040 --> 1:43:22.679 Because we were in America a lot we knew songs 1:43:22.680 --> 1:43:26.360 that were hits here that people in the UK didn't know, 1:43:26.400 --> 1:43:28.920 and that was one it hadn't been a hit, and 1:43:29.000 --> 1:43:30.960 I thought we did a really good version of it, 1:43:31.320 --> 1:43:34.240 and the mix was horrendous, and it was at that 1:43:34.360 --> 1:43:37.479 point we just couldn't work with Ken Jones anymore. And 1:43:37.560 --> 1:43:39.960 again I was kind of on the periphery of this 1:43:40.040 --> 1:43:45.479 because to some extent, the writers Rod Argent and Chris 1:43:45.479 --> 1:43:50.600 White were senior members of the band, if you like, 1:43:50.640 --> 1:43:53.000 and a lot of the negotiations were done with them. 1:43:53.240 --> 1:43:55.800 I don't even know if they realized that, but it 1:43:55.920 --> 1:43:59.080 was the case. We ended up getting a one record 1:43:59.160 --> 1:43:59.960 deal with CBO. 1:44:00.080 --> 1:44:03.320 Yes, just to be clear, this is before or after 1:44:03.400 --> 1:44:07.479 the Philippines. This is just after the phillip So tell 1:44:07.520 --> 1:44:11.400 us what happens in the Philippines. Well, it's an extraordinary experience. 1:44:13.640 --> 1:44:15.680 We were asked if we wanted to go to the Philippines. 1:44:16.400 --> 1:44:18.320 I'd be honest with you. I didn't really know where 1:44:18.320 --> 1:44:24.000 the Philippines was, and I thought we would go there 1:44:24.439 --> 1:44:27.680 and be playing. It was it was called the Aaronetta 1:44:27.720 --> 1:44:30.479 Coliseum where we were going, and I thought, maybe that's 1:44:30.479 --> 1:44:33.360 a hotel and we'd play in the foyer in the 1:44:33.439 --> 1:44:36.880 evenings and we'd sit on the beach and the day. 1:44:36.920 --> 1:44:39.600 I thought we were going for ten days, and I 1:44:39.640 --> 1:44:42.080 thought it would be fun. You know, this is my feeling. 1:44:42.280 --> 1:44:44.360 I think at the time the contracts were actually being 1:44:44.400 --> 1:44:46.760 sent to me. No one else wanted to do that. 1:44:46.880 --> 1:44:47.960 It just had to sign it. 1:44:47.960 --> 1:44:52.479 That wasn't doing anything other than signing contracts. And so 1:44:53.080 --> 1:44:55.960 we arrived there at three I think someone bought the 1:44:56.040 --> 1:44:58.920 cheapest ticket flight you could ever do. So we're flying 1:44:58.960 --> 1:45:05.280 to the Philippines and stopped in Paris, then Rome, then 1:45:05.320 --> 1:45:08.120 in the Middle East, then on both sides of India, 1:45:08.600 --> 1:45:10.599 and then in Hong Kong, where we had a seven 1:45:10.640 --> 1:45:15.000 hour layover and then we flew to Manila. You can imagine. 1:45:15.640 --> 1:45:18.760 I can't it was like thirty hours, or maybe that's 1:45:18.760 --> 1:45:20.760 an exaggeration. It was a long time, but you know, 1:45:20.840 --> 1:45:24.080 it probably was thirty It was a long time. Probably 1:45:24.120 --> 1:45:26.720 could have got there on a bike faster. Anyway, we 1:45:26.840 --> 1:45:29.600 arrive at three o'clock in the morning. There are thousands 1:45:29.600 --> 1:45:34.360 of people at the airport, so I'm thinking there must 1:45:34.360 --> 1:45:37.320 be someone famous on this plane. I'm getting off the plane, 1:45:38.920 --> 1:45:41.960 I'm looking over them. I'm looking backwards over my shoulder 1:45:42.040 --> 1:45:44.519 to see who was on the plane. And then they 1:45:44.560 --> 1:45:48.000 start putting up flowers and things around our neck, and 1:45:48.040 --> 1:45:52.879 I can see there's like a movie newsreel camera thing filming. 1:45:53.000 --> 1:45:57.400 It was totally unprepared for this filming us. And we 1:45:57.479 --> 1:46:00.799 go to the aeron Aaronessa Coliseum and at the time, 1:46:00.960 --> 1:46:04.880 I believe it was the second biggest call it arena. 1:46:05.160 --> 1:46:09.200 There was one in Texas that was bigger. There was 1:46:09.520 --> 1:46:11.800 like a hotel at the back and a restaurant where 1:46:12.240 --> 1:46:16.439 we stayed. It was huge, and we opened to twenty 1:46:16.479 --> 1:46:21.360 eight thousand people. Now those figures might not be absolutely accurate, 1:46:21.400 --> 1:46:23.519 but that's what I was told. I can tell you 1:46:23.600 --> 1:46:27.160 it was a shedload of people. It was big. We 1:46:27.240 --> 1:46:30.280 stayed for ten days. That was a Friday night. The 1:46:30.320 --> 1:46:33.400 Saturday we played a matin eight of fifteen thousand, and 1:46:33.520 --> 1:46:36.800 Saturday night we played to thirty two thousand, and it 1:46:37.000 --> 1:46:42.000 went on roughly like that for the whole ten nights. Sadly, 1:46:42.080 --> 1:46:45.400 we were being paid eighty pounds a night, out of 1:46:45.439 --> 1:46:47.519 which we had to play a manager and an agent, 1:46:48.880 --> 1:46:52.120 so we were probably playing for about five pounds each 1:46:52.320 --> 1:46:56.720 a night to twenty eight thousand people or thirty two 1:46:56.800 --> 1:47:01.000 thousand people on the Saturday night. And you know, we 1:47:01.080 --> 1:47:03.840 have never been people who are particularly motivated by money. 1:47:04.600 --> 1:47:07.160 But it just starts to get a bit ridiculous. You know, 1:47:07.200 --> 1:47:10.040 we've got the non writers, have got no money anyway, 1:47:10.520 --> 1:47:14.000 We're playing this huge venue in getting nothing, and it 1:47:15.400 --> 1:47:19.080 it just it turned very strange. We asked the promoter 1:47:19.200 --> 1:47:22.480 there who his name was, Aaronetta. It was his coliseum. 1:47:22.920 --> 1:47:25.320 He had a private army, you know, and he wanted 1:47:25.360 --> 1:47:29.200 to keep us in there. It's unbelievable, you know, very 1:47:29.280 --> 1:47:32.120 much in their power. He got our passports, he had 1:47:32.240 --> 1:47:36.200 armed guards who were used to circular and he wanted 1:47:36.280 --> 1:47:39.960 us to stay inside there. But we met people because 1:47:40.000 --> 1:47:43.400 there was a hotel and restaurant backstage. Lots of people 1:47:43.439 --> 1:47:45.400 would come backstairs and they would ask us to pass this, 1:47:45.720 --> 1:47:48.280 and we would go out in the boot of the 1:47:48.320 --> 1:47:52.160 trunk of their cars. These people had submachine guns on 1:47:52.240 --> 1:47:55.920 the doors of the stadium, so we would go out 1:47:55.960 --> 1:47:58.000 to passes and things like that. But at the end 1:47:58.040 --> 1:47:59.880 of the ten days we said, well, we'd like to stay, 1:48:00.160 --> 1:48:02.880 and we'd like to I didn't actually speak to him, 1:48:03.040 --> 1:48:06.760 but I know they asked for a couple of guys. 1:48:06.800 --> 1:48:09.479 Tour manager and someone else in the band asked for 1:48:09.479 --> 1:48:11.880 one thousand dollars a night and fifty percents at all, 1:48:12.439 --> 1:48:15.200 and you kicked him out and said, look, I paid 1:48:15.240 --> 1:48:17.719 for your flights here, I'm paying for your flights back, 1:48:18.439 --> 1:48:21.760 off you go. You know. So it got very difficult. 1:48:21.880 --> 1:48:25.679 We managed to get our passports back, but he made 1:48:25.720 --> 1:48:28.400 it very uncomfortable for us being in the Philippines. We 1:48:28.479 --> 1:48:32.280 went to Hong Kong whilst another promoter and tried to 1:48:32.280 --> 1:48:34.280 get us some dates, and eventually he managed to get 1:48:34.320 --> 1:48:37.000 us some dates. We went back to the Philippines and 1:48:37.160 --> 1:48:39.600 the first gig we got we were playing two on 1:48:39.640 --> 1:48:42.120 the first night. It was at the club called the 1:48:42.240 --> 1:48:44.479 Nile Club, and it was sort of the place to be. 1:48:44.760 --> 1:48:47.080 We'd sound checked, we'd had a meal, We're going to 1:48:47.160 --> 1:48:49.960 go on stage, and they said, sorry, you can't play, 1:48:50.439 --> 1:48:54.439 and it was very obvious they'd been threatened. So we 1:48:54.479 --> 1:48:57.360 didn't play. The second We went on to the second 1:48:57.360 --> 1:49:00.720 place and we did play, and in the morning we 1:49:00.800 --> 1:49:02.920 got on a plane to fly to another island. We 1:49:03.040 --> 1:49:06.160 got a newspaper and that second club burnt down in 1:49:06.240 --> 1:49:12.640 the night. Now I'm not like, maybe it was a coincidence, 1:49:13.360 --> 1:49:17.520 but that's that's what happened in the Philippines. The audiences 1:49:17.520 --> 1:49:20.720 were wonderful the Philippine and people were wonderful. But we 1:49:20.920 --> 1:49:26.479 just got involved in a very strange setup, and it 1:49:26.520 --> 1:49:29.040 was it was very difficult, Okay. 1:49:29.520 --> 1:49:33.479 In the movie, which I keep referencing, you talk about 1:49:33.520 --> 1:49:36.800 playing a gig for almost no money and then talking 1:49:36.840 --> 1:49:40.240 to the promoter, promoter says, you know, it's too expensive 1:49:41.160 --> 1:49:44.360 to have you back. Who was getting the money? 1:49:44.920 --> 1:49:48.400 Well, I mean, in some ways I wonder whether I 1:49:48.400 --> 1:49:52.080 didn't say too much. And and but remember when you 1:49:52.120 --> 1:49:54.960 see the movie, I might have been talking for an 1:49:54.960 --> 1:49:57.519 hour and a half when I get to that bit, 1:49:58.160 --> 1:50:02.240 because no one's alive now that we're talking about so 1:50:02.360 --> 1:50:09.040 they can't speak, They can't give their side of the argument, 1:50:09.160 --> 1:50:12.320 you know, but it is true. I was talking when 1:50:12.360 --> 1:50:16.000 I spoke to a promoter and I'm just the place 1:50:16.120 --> 1:50:18.719 was heaving. This is back in the UK. The place 1:50:18.840 --> 1:50:21.400 was heaving, and I said, I see you next time. 1:50:22.080 --> 1:50:25.519 It won't be a next time. What is it? Why's 1:50:25.600 --> 1:50:28.920 that you're too expensive? I knew what we remember, I said, 1:50:28.960 --> 1:50:31.400 I was signing the contracts. No one else wanted to 1:50:31.439 --> 1:50:34.439 do it. I knew what we were getting and I said, well, 1:50:34.439 --> 1:50:36.600 what did you pay for us? And he told me 1:50:37.120 --> 1:50:39.040 and it was three and a half times what we 1:50:39.040 --> 1:50:43.000 were getting. But listen, I don't want to get into 1:50:43.040 --> 1:50:43.799 too much details. 1:50:43.840 --> 1:50:46.160 Well who do you think was getting the money? 1:50:47.600 --> 1:50:52.000 Well, I can certainly tell you it wasn't us. Who 1:50:52.040 --> 1:50:53.360 do you think was getting the money? 1:50:55.000 --> 1:50:57.479 Do I think it's usually the manager who takes the money? 1:50:58.479 --> 1:50:59.560 Well you said that, not me? 1:51:00.000 --> 1:51:07.040 Okay, Just moving on. You're recording Odyssey and Oracle for CBS. 1:51:08.120 --> 1:51:12.160 Forget with hindsight when you're making it. Is it a 1:51:12.200 --> 1:51:15.840 good experience? Do you think it's good? Or the band 1:51:15.920 --> 1:51:18.559 is running on fumes? Let's just finish the record. What 1:51:18.760 --> 1:51:19.240 was going on? 1:51:19.439 --> 1:51:21.960 Well, again, I think we remember this differently. I'm a 1:51:22.080 --> 1:51:24.840 herd Rod say that we knew the band was going 1:51:24.880 --> 1:51:27.479 to finish, and we felt that we would like to 1:51:27.520 --> 1:51:30.559 make an album before the band finished. I didn't feel 1:51:30.640 --> 1:51:35.040 like that. I thought the band was still going. But 1:51:35.640 --> 1:51:38.680 that's not an argument with him. We just remember it differently, 1:51:38.800 --> 1:51:42.719 you know, I really enjoyed it. We had a really 1:51:42.760 --> 1:51:45.880 small budget. We had one thousand pounds from CBS, and 1:51:46.080 --> 1:51:49.360 somehow we managed to get into Abbey Road Studios, which 1:51:49.439 --> 1:51:52.320 was called EMI Studios at the time. It's in a 1:51:52.479 --> 1:51:56.120 road called Abbey Road, but it was called EMI Studios, 1:51:56.400 --> 1:52:00.240 but we weren't on EMI, and as far as as 1:52:00.240 --> 1:52:06.000 I know, very few or no non EMI artists had 1:52:06.000 --> 1:52:10.200 ever recorded in Abbey Road. So I don't know how 1:52:10.240 --> 1:52:12.400 we got in there, because it was at the time 1:52:12.560 --> 1:52:16.639 was definitely the best studio in the country. Because we've 1:52:16.640 --> 1:52:21.040 got a really small budget, we rehearsed really extensively before 1:52:21.040 --> 1:52:23.040 we went in. We knew what songs we were going 1:52:23.080 --> 1:52:25.400 to record, and what key and what the arrangement was. 1:52:25.400 --> 1:52:28.320 We're just looking for a performance and we went in 1:52:28.360 --> 1:52:31.479 and named check these engineers before I think it was 1:52:31.520 --> 1:52:37.760 mostly Pietervince, but Emeric certainly helped was recording as well, 1:52:37.880 --> 1:52:40.559 and he actually engineered Time of the Season. Jeff Emeric, 1:52:40.880 --> 1:52:42.880 and of course he worked with the Beatles and later 1:52:42.920 --> 1:52:46.360 on with Paul McCartney, and I remember it as a 1:52:47.120 --> 1:52:52.120 really good experience. We recorded quite quickly and I thought 1:52:52.120 --> 1:52:54.680 it sounded pretty good. The only time there was a 1:52:54.720 --> 1:52:58.120 little bit of tension was actually on Time of the Season. 1:52:58.240 --> 1:53:00.400 It was the last song that was written for the album, 1:53:00.400 --> 1:53:02.840 and it was the last song that was recorded, and 1:53:03.200 --> 1:53:07.439 we hadn't really fully rehearsed that particular song. It was 1:53:07.520 --> 1:53:11.439 finished in the morning before we recorded it, and Rod 1:53:11.520 --> 1:53:14.880 was trying to guide me through the phrasing of the song. 1:53:14.920 --> 1:53:17.040 And he's in the control room, and of course all 1:53:17.080 --> 1:53:19.240 the engineers and the band and everyone is in there, 1:53:19.280 --> 1:53:21.960 and I forgot that I've got the headphones on. He's 1:53:22.000 --> 1:53:25.080 trying it. No, Colin, can you be more on the 1:53:25.080 --> 1:53:27.679 beat with that phrase? Can you push this? Can you 1:53:27.760 --> 1:53:29.680 do it? And in front of me, I've got a 1:53:29.680 --> 1:53:32.240 big clock. I know we're running out of time and 1:53:32.240 --> 1:53:34.519 we're running out of money, and there was a red light, 1:53:34.720 --> 1:53:38.880 big red light underneath the studios live it's running out 1:53:38.880 --> 1:53:42.160 of time, and I'm getting more and more fraught, and 1:53:42.200 --> 1:53:45.679 the language between us is getting worse, and I forget, 1:53:45.680 --> 1:53:47.880 there's all other people, it's not just me and all 1:53:47.880 --> 1:53:52.000 the other people in there, and I can't really say 1:53:52.000 --> 1:53:55.599 the language. But it came to the point was listen, 1:53:56.040 --> 1:53:58.840 if you're so good, you come in here and you 1:53:59.080 --> 1:54:03.280 sing it. And he said to me, you're the bloody 1:54:03.360 --> 1:54:07.040 lead singer, your bloody stand there till you get it bloody, right, 1:54:07.120 --> 1:54:10.960 But it wasn't bloody that he was saying. And it's 1:54:11.040 --> 1:54:13.360 always made me smile because at the same time as 1:54:13.400 --> 1:54:17.400 we're having this kind of back and forth, I'm singing 1:54:17.920 --> 1:54:24.840 is the time of the season for love thing? And 1:54:24.960 --> 1:54:29.160 in between doing this, it's you bloody get that freak, 1:54:29.240 --> 1:54:31.600 come on, get it on the beat? Why can't you? 1:54:31.920 --> 1:54:35.360 And yeah, that was the background for that track. That 1:54:35.520 --> 1:54:38.240 was the only bit of tension, though otherwise I remember 1:54:38.280 --> 1:54:39.600 it as great fun. 1:54:48.440 --> 1:54:49.800 So how does the BM break up? 1:54:52.360 --> 1:54:58.640 Well, we were by now a single was released and 1:54:58.680 --> 1:55:02.360 they are in the UK. It was still a singles market. 1:55:02.800 --> 1:55:05.640 It was moving towards albums, but at this point it 1:55:05.760 --> 1:55:10.960 was still singles were all important, and CBS released care 1:55:11.000 --> 1:55:14.520 of Sale forty four, which I thought was probably one 1:55:14.560 --> 1:55:17.720 of all the most commercial track on the record, but 1:55:18.360 --> 1:55:24.040 it was nothing happened. A couple of nice reviews, one DJ, 1:55:24.240 --> 1:55:26.560 quite a famous DJ, really loved the album, a guy 1:55:26.600 --> 1:55:29.720 called Kenny Everett, who was very successful in the UK. 1:55:30.680 --> 1:55:34.320 But the media no interest in the album, all, the 1:55:34.360 --> 1:55:38.600 single at all, and it just seemed as though, you remember, 1:55:38.680 --> 1:55:41.080 we just had this experience in the Philippines which was 1:55:41.240 --> 1:55:46.960 really scary. The three non writers were broke by now. 1:55:47.000 --> 1:55:49.720 We didn't have a manager, we didn't have an agent. 1:55:50.440 --> 1:55:52.520 I remember we went and talked to an agent and 1:55:52.640 --> 1:55:55.200 I could tell he wasn't really interested in us at all, 1:55:55.840 --> 1:55:58.720 and everything seemed to be pointing towards it's time to 1:55:58.760 --> 1:56:03.040 move on guys. You know, Rod called a meeting at 1:56:03.080 --> 1:56:05.640 his flat. He shared a flat with Chris White, and 1:56:05.720 --> 1:56:08.600 the first thing that happened was Paul Atkinson said, guys, 1:56:08.680 --> 1:56:12.440 I've just got married. I have to get a job. 1:56:12.520 --> 1:56:16.640 I haven't got any money. And then from memory, Rod said, look, 1:56:16.680 --> 1:56:20.320 if Paul's leaving, I think we should finish the band. 1:56:21.120 --> 1:56:23.840 And I've always been embarrassed I didn't say anything. I 1:56:24.840 --> 1:56:27.800 wish i'd have said something, but I didn't say anything, 1:56:28.280 --> 1:56:29.080 and that was it. 1:56:29.080 --> 1:56:30.440 It was hard to feel. 1:56:31.520 --> 1:56:38.760 I felt deflated, sad, devastated, depressed. I didn't have a plan. 1:56:38.840 --> 1:56:41.920 B I didn't know what the hell I was going 1:56:42.000 --> 1:56:48.880 to do. I remember driving home feeling very lonely. Yeah, 1:56:49.040 --> 1:56:50.280 it was it was over. 1:56:50.560 --> 1:56:53.120 How long until you end up working in the insurance place? 1:56:54.080 --> 1:56:58.440 Fairly soon. It was two or three months. I actually 1:56:58.800 --> 1:57:03.720 heard my parents discussing my future from another room, and 1:57:04.800 --> 1:57:07.120 you know, they would have I need never have worked. 1:57:07.120 --> 1:57:10.560 They would have supported me if they possibly could have. Well, 1:57:10.600 --> 1:57:12.480 I mean they I don't know if they could have really, 1:57:12.520 --> 1:57:15.680 but I did. My dad say, well, you know, just 1:57:15.680 --> 1:57:17.800 because he's been in a band, he can't just sit 1:57:17.840 --> 1:57:20.680 around doing nothing for the rest of his life. He's 1:57:20.680 --> 1:57:24.440 got to do something. So I started getting on the 1:57:24.440 --> 1:57:28.320 phone and I literally took the first job I was offered. 1:57:28.640 --> 1:57:30.800 People always laugh at I ended up in it. I 1:57:30.840 --> 1:57:34.040 don't know anything about insurance. I ended up in an 1:57:34.040 --> 1:57:38.760 insurance company. But the first I went to three interviews, 1:57:39.160 --> 1:57:42.280 and the first one it was for a sales director. 1:57:42.320 --> 1:57:46.200 I thought this sounds pretty good sales. I could see 1:57:46.240 --> 1:57:48.720 myself in a slick suit, you know, maybe with a 1:57:48.760 --> 1:57:52.400 company car, and so a friend of mine drove me up. 1:57:52.480 --> 1:57:54.400 It's quite a long way to go there. I thought 1:57:54.440 --> 1:57:56.920 we'd make a day of it, and so I was relaxed. 1:57:57.240 --> 1:57:59.640 We went to the pub first and had a few beers. 1:58:00.120 --> 1:58:03.440 So I see, I was very inexperience, in naive. I 1:58:03.480 --> 1:58:05.520 would have smelled of beer when I went in for 1:58:05.560 --> 1:58:08.120 this interview. And also I was very keen on making 1:58:08.160 --> 1:58:12.280 eye contact. And this guy said, you do realize if 1:58:12.320 --> 1:58:15.040 you get this job, we would have to work together. 1:58:15.120 --> 1:58:18.120 Obviously he thought I had some kind of you know, 1:58:19.200 --> 1:58:25.040 mental violent problem or something. And then just as I 1:58:25.120 --> 1:58:28.280 was getting up to leave, he said, and how would 1:58:28.280 --> 1:58:34.640 you feel about selling ladies lingerie at retail? I thought 1:58:34.760 --> 1:58:38.280 I was going to be a director of sales of something, 1:58:38.480 --> 1:58:43.640 but it was selling ladies underwear into shops. I'm really 1:58:43.680 --> 1:58:46.760 quite relieved I didn't get that job. So people laugh 1:58:46.800 --> 1:58:48.840 at I'd got a job in insurance. I could have 1:58:48.920 --> 1:58:52.560 been selling ladies underwear. You know, I didn't get that. 1:58:53.480 --> 1:58:56.120 I went for a second interview and the guy, I mean, 1:58:56.280 --> 1:58:58.840 I was just very naive if some kind of electric 1:58:59.360 --> 1:59:04.240 putting alarms into factories, And he said, tell me in 1:59:04.280 --> 1:59:08.760 your own words, why do you want this job? And 1:59:08.840 --> 1:59:11.520 I said to him, well, I don't really want it. 1:59:11.880 --> 1:59:16.840 He said, let me stop me there, you won't get 1:59:16.880 --> 1:59:19.800 this job. But no one's ever said that before. Would 1:59:19.840 --> 1:59:21.800 you just stay and talk to me for a while. 1:59:21.920 --> 1:59:25.400 I'm quite interested. So we had a nice chat. I 1:59:25.440 --> 1:59:27.160 was just being open and honest to him. I didn't 1:59:27.200 --> 1:59:29.360 want the job. I needed a job. If he said 1:59:29.360 --> 1:59:31.280 why do you need this job? I would have answered 1:59:31.280 --> 1:59:36.000 it differently anyway. And then there was a job advertising insurance, 1:59:36.160 --> 1:59:39.320 and I don't think anybody else wanted to work in insurance. 1:59:39.360 --> 1:59:40.320 You know they were desperate. 1:59:40.480 --> 1:59:43.960 Okay, so what is it like? You know this is 1:59:44.080 --> 1:59:47.400 reference in the documentary You're there, everybody else ses. He 1:59:47.480 --> 1:59:48.960 is the lead singer of the Zombies. 1:59:49.840 --> 1:59:53.200 It was a tricky moment the first time I walked 1:59:53.200 --> 1:59:57.880 into the insurance company, because they did all sort of 1:59:57.920 --> 2:00:00.640 stare a bit. But there's not only lasted for a 2:00:00.680 --> 2:00:03.680 day or two. But the real tricky moment for me 2:00:03.800 --> 2:00:05.640 was the first time I had to answer the phone. 2:00:05.800 --> 2:00:10.200 I know nothing about insurance, absolutely nothing, and some of 2:00:10.240 --> 2:00:16.320 the accounts were worth millions. Very quickly I was given 2:00:16.400 --> 2:00:20.840 the British Army has social clubs and I don't know 2:00:20.880 --> 2:00:25.760 what it stands for, but everyone knows them as NAFFI. 2:00:26.440 --> 2:00:28.760 I don't know what that stands for, but it's the 2:00:28.800 --> 2:00:31.920 social clubs for the British Army. And they had the 2:00:31.960 --> 2:00:37.240 insurance for it, so I would imagine that's worth millions 2:00:37.280 --> 2:00:41.360 and millions of pounds. They gave that to me and 2:00:41.400 --> 2:00:43.840 the women. The woman who phoned me about it, you know, 2:00:43.920 --> 2:00:47.840 she was saying, using insurance terms, I couldn't tell you 2:00:47.880 --> 2:00:50.840 what it was all about, and she sucked me out. Really, 2:00:50.920 --> 2:00:54.760 I tried. I'm quite a good bluffer. I tried to 2:00:55.160 --> 2:00:57.320 give the impression I knew what I was talking about, 2:00:57.880 --> 2:01:00.280 but I only lasted about five minutes. She would talk 2:01:00.360 --> 2:01:04.480 to me after that. But I did handle some big 2:01:04.520 --> 2:01:06.440 accounts and I did manage to bluff it. 2:01:06.960 --> 2:01:08.480 How long did you last there? 2:01:09.280 --> 2:01:12.240 Well, the time of the season started going up the 2:01:12.320 --> 2:01:15.520 charts after about six months, and so every second call 2:01:15.600 --> 2:01:19.200 I got was from record companies and producers saying, you 2:01:19.240 --> 2:01:21.760 want to make records again because no one was interested 2:01:21.760 --> 2:01:24.960 when the Zombies finished. And I must admit, you know, 2:01:25.040 --> 2:01:27.280 I wasn't a person who got on the phone and pushed, 2:01:28.720 --> 2:01:30.840 but then the phone started ringing and a guy called 2:01:30.880 --> 2:01:34.000 Mike Hurst, who was a very successful producer at the time. 2:01:34.240 --> 2:01:37.080 He produced the early Cat Stevens records. I'm not sure 2:01:37.120 --> 2:01:42.280 if there hits in America, but Matthew and Son we. 2:01:42.640 --> 2:01:45.080 All knew them. They weren't not regular radio hits, but he. 2:01:45.080 --> 2:01:48.080 Was big well, they were huge hits in the UK. 2:01:48.480 --> 2:01:52.080 And then he wanted to produce me, and I wasn't 2:01:52.200 --> 2:01:54.840 I was still devastated about the Zombers. I wasn't sure 2:01:54.880 --> 2:01:57.360 if I wanted to try again. But he said, look, 2:01:57.360 --> 2:02:00.800 I tell you what. I'll get Olympics, which is where 2:02:00.800 --> 2:02:04.600 the Stones used to record in Barns. I'll get that. 2:02:04.680 --> 2:02:08.080 I'll put some tracks together and you come along after 2:02:08.120 --> 2:02:11.320 the office and put some vocals on the tracks and 2:02:11.400 --> 2:02:15.280 let's see what happens. And he got the idea of 2:02:15.320 --> 2:02:19.560 re recording She's not there. That's bit of a strange idea, 2:02:20.000 --> 2:02:23.040 but I didn't know if it was going to lead anywhere, 2:02:23.040 --> 2:02:25.640 so I just said, well, okay, we'll do it. And 2:02:25.960 --> 2:02:28.680 then somehow I ended up with this name, Neil MacArthur, 2:02:29.120 --> 2:02:31.480 and I've seen him quite recently and I always thought 2:02:31.520 --> 2:02:33.960 it was his idea that I was Neil MacArthur. He 2:02:34.040 --> 2:02:37.040 thought it was my idea. So where that came from 2:02:37.160 --> 2:02:39.840 I don't know. But I ended up recording under the 2:02:39.880 --> 2:02:43.040 name of Neil MacArthur, a re recording if She's not there, 2:02:43.560 --> 2:02:47.120 and it was a hit in the UK and I 2:02:47.200 --> 2:02:50.000 was back in the music business. No one was more 2:02:50.040 --> 2:02:54.600 surprised than me or Neil. Neil was surprised too that 2:02:54.680 --> 2:02:55.360 it had happened. 2:02:56.040 --> 2:03:00.360 Okay, just go back a step. How do you find 2:03:00.400 --> 2:03:02.200 out the time of the season is catching on? 2:03:03.280 --> 2:03:06.440 People started calling me. I didn't believe them to start with. 2:03:07.560 --> 2:03:13.120 I thought the Zombies was over. I think maybe Paul 2:03:13.160 --> 2:03:18.240 Atkinson was calling me some people in America, because you know, 2:03:18.360 --> 2:03:21.880 it went through the charts very slowly, and so it 2:03:21.960 --> 2:03:24.920 was sort of you know what, Timember the Seasons come 2:03:24.960 --> 2:03:28.960 into the top one hundred in the state, No, can't 2:03:29.000 --> 2:03:32.640 have it came in and then over a period of weeks, 2:03:32.680 --> 2:03:35.760 you know, it's eighty sixty five and you're sort of 2:03:35.840 --> 2:03:38.240 dreading the next phone call it's going to have gone down. 2:03:39.520 --> 2:03:41.960 But in cash Box it actually went to number one. 2:03:42.720 --> 2:03:46.240 It was gigantic. There was no thought of reforming the band. 2:03:46.840 --> 2:03:53.880 Not one iota, never a conversation. Nothing. Mostly I think 2:03:53.880 --> 2:04:01.600 because Rod and Chris were really very involved in Argent 2:04:02.040 --> 2:04:02.680 at that point. 2:04:02.880 --> 2:04:05.800 So how did you feel that they restarted without you? 2:04:06.720 --> 2:04:12.520 Well, I mean, what can you say? I mean, it 2:04:12.600 --> 2:04:16.280 was a strange feeling. It was a strange feeling. I 2:04:16.440 --> 2:04:19.400 was just a fan of Argent, you know. I thought 2:04:19.560 --> 2:04:23.120 Argent were incredible. I used to pay for tickets to 2:04:23.160 --> 2:04:25.760 go and see them. I just thought they were fantastic 2:04:25.840 --> 2:04:27.760 and I knew them. I went to some of their 2:04:27.920 --> 2:04:31.760 very early rehearsals, so I knew they were going to 2:04:31.800 --> 2:04:32.840 be good. I really did. 2:04:32.960 --> 2:04:34.680 How did they find Russ Ballen? 2:04:35.520 --> 2:04:40.520 Well, they let me get this right. They went to 2:04:40.560 --> 2:04:44.320 see Unit four plus two because they were after Bob Henryt, 2:04:44.360 --> 2:04:48.480 who was the drummer in Unit four plus two. And 2:04:48.520 --> 2:04:51.280 it's really funny because they went to see them play 2:04:51.440 --> 2:04:53.960 thinking they could creep in at the back and no 2:04:54.040 --> 2:04:57.720 one would see them. When there was no one there 2:04:57.760 --> 2:05:00.640 when they got, you know, this very small so they 2:05:00.720 --> 2:05:03.600 walked in and it was really obvious that they were 2:05:03.640 --> 2:05:06.480 there and they'd gone to see Bob Henritt. And I 2:05:06.520 --> 2:05:08.960 think that they Russ Ballard was in the band as 2:05:08.960 --> 2:05:12.200 well at that point, and I think they were very 2:05:12.320 --> 2:05:14.840 impressed with Russ and I think maybe, I mean, this 2:05:14.880 --> 2:05:20.280 is a little bit outside of my knowledge. Really it's 2:05:20.320 --> 2:05:23.480 been explained to me, but I maybe don't remember correctly. 2:05:23.520 --> 2:05:25.840 But either I think it was a bit of both. 2:05:25.920 --> 2:05:30.120 They thought Buss Ballard was fabulous, which he is, and 2:05:30.200 --> 2:05:34.240 also I think Bob Henritt recommended him as well. And 2:05:35.320 --> 2:05:39.920 what a what a great band. They were fabulous, great band. 2:05:40.560 --> 2:05:43.920 How do you end up playing with Alan Parsons? 2:05:44.560 --> 2:05:48.680 Well, Alan was really he was an assistant engineer at 2:05:48.680 --> 2:05:52.040 Abbey Road when we were recording Odyssey and Oracle, and 2:05:53.400 --> 2:05:55.839 I spoke to him a bit. I mean, I certainly 2:05:56.640 --> 2:06:00.640 remember him from then, and also he lived near me. 2:06:00.760 --> 2:06:04.120 I bought my first flat in West Hampstead and I 2:06:04.240 --> 2:06:06.520 used to see him in Hampstead Village, which is in 2:06:06.680 --> 2:06:09.440 northwest London on a Saturday morning. He used to drink 2:06:09.440 --> 2:06:11.280 in a pub called the Flask, and I used to 2:06:11.360 --> 2:06:14.839 drink in this sometimes. So we knew one another vaguely, 2:06:17.320 --> 2:06:19.880 and that's that's basically it. I think I might have 2:06:20.200 --> 2:06:24.240 asked him about producing me as well at one point, 2:06:24.360 --> 2:06:28.040 but by then he'd got the project going and so 2:06:28.560 --> 2:06:32.040 he wasn't really producing other people. And I also knew 2:06:32.160 --> 2:06:36.240 Eric Wilson vaguely as well. He'd come to some Zombie 2:06:36.280 --> 2:06:40.080 gigs and they just called me up and said, I 2:06:40.080 --> 2:06:41.920 think the first one I did with that was that 2:06:42.000 --> 2:06:44.880 Eagle will Rise Again. And to start with, they used 2:06:44.880 --> 2:06:46.960 to give me about a week's notice. They would send 2:06:46.960 --> 2:06:52.760 me an assetate in those days and they'd give me 2:06:52.800 --> 2:06:56.200 a week to learn the song, so Eagle will Rise Again. 2:06:56.280 --> 2:07:00.240 I got a week old and wise I got a week. 2:07:00.680 --> 2:07:02.960 But then the later ones they would phone me up 2:07:03.000 --> 2:07:05.919 and say, we've got this song. Come down to the studio. 2:07:06.400 --> 2:07:09.240 We'll play it through to you learn it. And I 2:07:09.280 --> 2:07:11.640 didn't say learn it in the stupid That's what it was, 2:07:11.960 --> 2:07:14.680 and we'll have a go at it. And that was 2:07:14.720 --> 2:07:17.600 a bit more challenging. You know, you'd learn it in 2:07:17.640 --> 2:07:19.920 front of Alan and Eric and you and you have 2:07:20.040 --> 2:07:24.240 to record it. But there, I mean, those project albums 2:07:24.280 --> 2:07:29.400 are wonderful, great songs because Alan's a magical producer as well. 2:07:29.480 --> 2:07:29.760 It was. 2:07:29.800 --> 2:07:31.200 It was a wonderful experience. 2:07:31.400 --> 2:07:35.840 So how do you ultimately reform the Zombies again? 2:07:36.280 --> 2:07:39.040 If Rod was here, he would tell you a slightly 2:07:39.080 --> 2:07:43.080 different story, but I'll tell you the truth. I was. 2:07:43.200 --> 2:07:46.480 I had a solo band don Airy, who's the keyboard 2:07:46.520 --> 2:07:52.360 player in Deep Purple. He'd already played in a lot 2:07:52.400 --> 2:07:55.720 of big heavy metal bands, and I'd met him, I 2:07:55.760 --> 2:07:59.760 knew him vaguely, and he took it upon himself to 2:08:00.040 --> 2:08:03.040 you let me know that I should be out playing live. 2:08:03.480 --> 2:08:06.880 He started calling me. Must have called me five or 2:08:06.920 --> 2:08:09.760 six times. You should be playing, like you've got to 2:08:09.800 --> 2:08:12.839 get out playing. But at this point I hadn't played 2:08:12.880 --> 2:08:16.080 for twenty something years. I've made lots of records, some 2:08:16.160 --> 2:08:20.720 had been hits. I had a little bit of success. 2:08:20.920 --> 2:08:23.480 I probably was more scared than anything I could. You 2:08:23.480 --> 2:08:26.240 could say anxious if you like, but scared would probably 2:08:26.880 --> 2:08:29.560 fit it better. And in those days I used to 2:08:29.680 --> 2:08:31.960 like to have a couple of beers in the evening 2:08:32.720 --> 2:08:36.360 quite I liked Stellar Artois quite strong. And he just 2:08:36.520 --> 2:08:39.080 picked the right moment. The fifth or sixth phone call, 2:08:39.440 --> 2:08:43.240 I was on my second Stellar Artois and he said, 2:08:43.280 --> 2:08:48.360 you should be out playing it. Okay, I will, And 2:08:48.400 --> 2:08:50.440 he said, right, you don't have to do anything. I'll 2:08:50.440 --> 2:08:53.200 put a band together, I'll rehearse them, just come up 2:08:53.240 --> 2:08:55.320 and we'll run through and then we'll do a gig. 2:08:55.440 --> 2:08:59.200 And that's what we did, and he got a great 2:08:59.240 --> 2:09:03.880 band together, all really really good players, and it held 2:09:03.920 --> 2:09:06.760 together for quite a time, but one by one they 2:09:06.840 --> 2:09:10.680 drifted off, and eventually don Airy drifted off, and he 2:09:10.720 --> 2:09:12.840 played with lots of good people, but for the last 2:09:12.880 --> 2:09:15.680 I think twenty years, has been with Deep Purple. And 2:09:15.720 --> 2:09:19.280 I got another keyboard player. But this keyboard player good player, 2:09:19.520 --> 2:09:22.880 but he had an achilles heel in that he wrote 2:09:22.880 --> 2:09:26.560 his own songs, and if anyone asked him to play 2:09:26.800 --> 2:09:31.920 at the local coffee shop but his own songs, he 2:09:31.960 --> 2:09:34.440 would be off. And so I would turn up to 2:09:34.800 --> 2:09:37.680 a date and I didn't have a keyboard player. And 2:09:37.720 --> 2:09:40.920 the last time this happened, it happened. I mean, there's 2:09:40.960 --> 2:09:44.000 no warning. He just would go, and we managed to 2:09:44.040 --> 2:09:47.600 scramble some guy in who didn't know me and didn't 2:09:47.640 --> 2:09:52.200 know any of my songs. I don't know how he 2:09:52.280 --> 2:09:55.520 got through the evening. And this I had new guys 2:09:55.560 --> 2:10:00.360 and everything. I had my regular bass player, our mother 2:10:00.400 --> 2:10:03.440 was on his second gig, and the guitarist was on 2:10:03.480 --> 2:10:06.080 his second gig, and the keyboard player didn't know any 2:10:06.120 --> 2:10:09.040 of the songs at all. And I thought I was 2:10:09.080 --> 2:10:13.520 going to have heart failure on this show. I thought 2:10:13.840 --> 2:10:15.960 I'm going to die if I go on like this. 2:10:16.760 --> 2:10:20.080 And I phoned Rod. I didn't think he would be interested. 2:10:20.120 --> 2:10:23.360 I really didn't because he was a very successful producer 2:10:24.480 --> 2:10:28.200 and he hadn't played live that much. And I said, Rod, 2:10:28.200 --> 2:10:30.960 I've got six dates left on this tour. It's driving 2:10:30.960 --> 2:10:33.960 me nuts. You know, this guy just keeps not showing up. 2:10:34.840 --> 2:10:37.360 Would you help me out and play these six dates? 2:10:37.440 --> 2:10:40.920 And I was really surprised, but blessed him. He said, Look, 2:10:42.040 --> 2:10:44.320 of course I'll help you out in the six dates, 2:10:44.400 --> 2:10:46.040 but I don't want to go back on the road 2:10:46.080 --> 2:10:49.240 full time, but I will play the six dates. And 2:10:49.280 --> 2:10:51.760 he did, and it was magical and he loved it, 2:10:52.520 --> 2:10:55.440 and those six dates developed into twenty five years. 2:10:55.400 --> 2:10:59.720 Okay, how hard was it for you to call him? 2:11:00.600 --> 2:11:06.280 Very hard? Very hard? Well, I think I've always been 2:11:06.280 --> 2:11:09.560 a bit in aura of Rod. He's a world class musician. 2:11:10.400 --> 2:11:16.560 And yeah, I did find it difficult. It was because 2:11:16.600 --> 2:11:19.200 I didn't have a choice, and also I didn't think 2:11:19.240 --> 2:11:22.800 he'd want to do it either, honestly, didn't think he wanted. 2:11:22.880 --> 2:11:24.960 How often did you have contact with him in the 2:11:25.720 --> 2:11:26.560 ensuing years. 2:11:26.960 --> 2:11:29.240 Yeah, quite a lot, and I would talk to him 2:11:29.320 --> 2:11:31.120 four or five times a year something like that, but 2:11:31.200 --> 2:11:37.680 not very regularly, so it was it was difficult, and 2:11:37.760 --> 2:11:39.800 partly because I didn't think he'd want to do it, 2:11:41.200 --> 2:11:44.760 but he did, and it was It was great for 2:11:44.840 --> 2:11:47.839 both of us. None of us were expecting what happened, 2:11:48.120 --> 2:11:52.160 the second incarnation of the Zombies. Who would have thought that. 2:11:52.560 --> 2:11:55.720 We thought the Zombies finished in nineteen sixty seven, and 2:11:55.760 --> 2:11:59.320 then when we started playing, people get asking for zombie tinges. 2:11:59.600 --> 2:12:03.760 When after those six dates we continued, but we played 2:12:03.840 --> 2:12:07.360 hardly any zombie songs. I'd had a few hits, He'd 2:12:07.360 --> 2:12:11.240 had a few hits. We played solo stuff, and people 2:12:11.360 --> 2:12:14.960 kept asking for zombie tunes. But Rob was adamant we 2:12:15.000 --> 2:12:17.920 wouldn't call the band the Zombies for like six or 2:12:17.960 --> 2:12:21.200 seven years. We're not the zombies. We can't call ourselves 2:12:21.240 --> 2:12:25.640 the zombies. I said, okay, But in the end we 2:12:25.640 --> 2:12:29.560 were playing twenty zombie tunes to an audience that had 2:12:29.600 --> 2:12:32.720 come to hear the Zombies. And then in one day 2:12:33.040 --> 2:12:36.280 he was talking about the artwork on the next album 2:12:36.640 --> 2:12:39.880 and he said, I hope we won't mind me having 2:12:39.880 --> 2:12:42.360 a bit of a chuckle. But it was quite funny 2:12:42.360 --> 2:12:45.080 because he sort of said I had a dream and 2:12:44.640 --> 2:12:47.840 I was thinking about that famous speech, and I had 2:12:47.840 --> 2:12:50.640 a dream and it was the artwork for the album 2:12:50.880 --> 2:12:55.360 and it was a white dove doing something and the zombies, 2:12:55.400 --> 2:12:58.400 and I thought, did he just say the zombies? I 2:12:58.440 --> 2:13:01.160 thought we weren't using them the zombies, and I didn't 2:13:01.200 --> 2:13:04.600 say anything, And from then on we were the zombies. 2:13:04.760 --> 2:13:08.640 We had to have a sit down with Rod Argent, 2:13:09.000 --> 2:13:11.960 with Chris White and Hugh Grundy and have a chat 2:13:11.960 --> 2:13:14.240 with them about it, and they were okay. I mean 2:13:14.880 --> 2:13:16.760 I don't think they were that keen to start with, 2:13:16.840 --> 2:13:20.280 but that they were okay in the end. And then 2:13:21.160 --> 2:13:24.640 we were the zombies again, the second incarnation of the Zombies. 2:13:24.680 --> 2:13:28.760 Well, of course, it's been an amazing success live shows, 2:13:29.000 --> 2:13:31.760 getting inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. 2:13:32.120 --> 2:13:36.280 But you're in Los Angeles right now promoting the new 2:13:36.520 --> 2:13:40.320 Zombies documentary Hung Up on a Dream. How did that 2:13:40.440 --> 2:13:40.960 come to be? 2:13:42.680 --> 2:13:44.840 Well, I think a lot of it was down to 2:13:44.960 --> 2:13:48.960 our management company, of the Rocks. They felt that we 2:13:49.080 --> 2:13:51.600 had a story to tell and it would be great 2:13:51.640 --> 2:13:55.520 to do a documentary, and through mutual friends, they were 2:13:55.560 --> 2:14:03.120 introduced to Robert who had already made movies in Hollywood scripted, 2:14:03.240 --> 2:14:08.720 fully funded movies. But he's also a musician, and I 2:14:08.760 --> 2:14:12.160 think that really helped. We were introduced to him on 2:14:12.200 --> 2:14:18.400 a zoom call. He'd made movies, he was a musician 2:14:18.440 --> 2:14:21.840 in his own right, and he came over as a 2:14:21.840 --> 2:14:24.320 genuine fan of the Zombies, and he won us over 2:14:24.480 --> 2:14:30.200 very quickly. So it came about, yes, just through people talking, 2:14:30.240 --> 2:14:33.560 you know, I management company talking to a middleman who 2:14:34.800 --> 2:14:39.320 who knew Robert, and then he made it very easy 2:14:39.360 --> 2:14:41.280 for us. We would just turn up and talk. 2:14:42.320 --> 2:14:43.960 How long has this been in production? 2:14:46.040 --> 2:14:48.560 Well, it probably started a couple of years ago, I think, 2:14:50.520 --> 2:14:55.080 but it's been it kept being re edited, but I 2:14:55.080 --> 2:14:58.960 mean a nearly final version has probably been around for 2:14:59.720 --> 2:15:03.080 nine months or so. I would have thought, and are 2:15:03.080 --> 2:15:07.000 you happy with it? I think it's great. I think 2:15:07.000 --> 2:15:10.400 it's really really good. I haven't seen the final cut 2:15:10.520 --> 2:15:13.560 that there are some I think, some subtle changes, but 2:15:13.600 --> 2:15:15.960 I'm going to see it tonight because I'm going to 2:15:16.080 --> 2:15:20.240 be part of a Q and A afterwards, and I thought, 2:15:20.280 --> 2:15:22.760 you know, I really ought to see it again because 2:15:23.480 --> 2:15:26.600 one or two questions have come up, real subtle things. 2:15:26.680 --> 2:15:32.080 I haven't seen it in suntme, but my experience in 2:15:32.120 --> 2:15:34.720 the insurance office has really helped me, you know, like 2:15:34.880 --> 2:15:37.440 when I learned to bluff, and so I've managed to 2:15:37.600 --> 2:15:42.160 bluff my way through it because one or two things 2:15:42.160 --> 2:15:47.240 have come up and I've thought I need to see 2:15:47.280 --> 2:15:50.720 it again. So I'm going tonight. I'm really excited about it. 2:15:51.200 --> 2:15:52.280 I'm going to see it tonight. 2:15:53.000 --> 2:15:55.720 Well, I think you know the story well enough you 2:15:56.120 --> 2:16:00.440 won't have to bluff, and you've certainly been very open 2:16:00.480 --> 2:16:04.000 and honest. You know, Listen, you're very convivial. You tell 2:16:04.000 --> 2:16:07.120 a great story. I could talk to you forever, but 2:16:07.240 --> 2:16:09.240 I think we've come to the end of the feeling 2:16:09.280 --> 2:16:11.960 we've known. Colin. I want to thank you so much 2:16:12.000 --> 2:16:13.879 for taking this time with my audience. 2:16:14.640 --> 2:16:16.960 Well, thanks so much for having me on the show. 2:16:17.120 --> 2:16:21.320 I mean, I've for a long time I'd loved to 2:16:21.360 --> 2:16:24.840 have been on this show. I say, you know, I'm 2:16:24.880 --> 2:16:27.640 just really happy to have been. I've really enjoyed having 2:16:27.640 --> 2:16:28.200 a chat. 2:16:28.560 --> 2:16:31.720 Well, you know, as I said earlier, and I've experienced. 2:16:31.840 --> 2:16:36.320 You have no idea how big the zombies were. You're saying, Oh, 2:16:36.400 --> 2:16:38.640 I did it for a couple of years and then 2:16:38.680 --> 2:16:43.080 the band fell apart. The zombies were as big as 2:16:43.200 --> 2:16:46.240 any of the other acts, and it sounded unique. It 2:16:46.280 --> 2:16:49.359 had this darkness where some of the other like animals 2:16:49.440 --> 2:16:52.400 records like don't Bring Me Down, We're dark, but they 2:16:52.440 --> 2:16:56.200 had a very period sound. They were rough, where the 2:16:56.320 --> 2:17:01.040 zombies songs were not rough. They were as they sueing generous. 2:17:01.120 --> 2:17:04.960 There was nothing else like them. You know, she's not there, 2:17:05.040 --> 2:17:06.640 tell her not that. Of course, at the time of 2:17:06.680 --> 2:17:09.039 the season, and there was no more zombies. I mean 2:17:09.280 --> 2:17:12.320 the average person, it was like, yeah they were. They 2:17:12.320 --> 2:17:15.520 were just like you know, nobody is the Beatles and 2:17:15.560 --> 2:17:18.960 also the Stones. But in the next year down zombies 2:17:19.040 --> 2:17:20.760 were as big as anybody. 2:17:21.720 --> 2:17:24.240 I know, it's extraordinary, but if you had any one 2:17:24.280 --> 2:17:26.920 of the zombies in here, I don't think we've ever 2:17:27.000 --> 2:17:30.880 been able to understand that. And it's a bit late 2:17:30.879 --> 2:17:32.600 in the day now for it to get through. But 2:17:32.920 --> 2:17:34.840 it's very kind if you just say that, and I'm 2:17:35.000 --> 2:17:38.360 thrilled that you see it that way. But we we 2:17:38.840 --> 2:17:42.080 I don't know, we just think we're just young kids 2:17:42.080 --> 2:17:43.000 from San Jobn's. 2:17:43.040 --> 2:17:47.520 Really there is a magic in these records, and just 2:17:47.560 --> 2:17:51.440 like anything magical, you know, especially Yeah, they're cut really quickly, 2:17:52.440 --> 2:17:56.199 and you know, I went to see Journey the pr person. 2:17:56.240 --> 2:17:57.600 We were having dinners, so I gotta go to the 2:17:57.640 --> 2:18:00.440 Hollywood Bowl and they have this leads sing from the 2:18:00.480 --> 2:18:05.080 Philippines ironically, and I'm there and the whole audience is 2:18:05.120 --> 2:18:07.240 singing so well, you know, it's not Steve Perry, but 2:18:07.280 --> 2:18:10.960 the songs are so iconic the audience owns them. Same 2:18:11.000 --> 2:18:15.200 thing with the zombies. The audience now owns those records. 2:18:15.480 --> 2:18:20.080 Those records are forever, okay, irrelevant whether they know a 2:18:20.080 --> 2:18:23.720 single person in the band or the story. They remember 2:18:23.720 --> 2:18:25.840 where they were and you know, time of the season 2:18:26.879 --> 2:18:29.280 to use a you know there's an evergreen never dies, 2:18:29.800 --> 2:18:32.720 you know, it just keeps up. Okay, I'm getting the 2:18:32.800 --> 2:18:36.160 signal you have to move on to your next gig. Yes, 2:18:38.480 --> 2:19:02.480 So until next time. This is Bob left Sex