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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Searts Podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is Colin Blumstone, lead singer of The

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Speaker 1: Zombies and so Much Moork. Colin, you just said you

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Speaker 1: realize you have allergies. Tell me about that.

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Speaker 2: Well, just know, I've been forty eight hours in Los Angeles.

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Speaker 2: I've realized I don't know anything about allergies. Is it

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Speaker 2: hay fever or whatever. But I just realized I do

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Speaker 2: suffer from that. And I was just going to apologize

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Speaker 2: to you in case I started sneezing while we're doing this,

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Speaker 2: while we're doing this interview. That was all I was

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Speaker 2: going to say, was if I start sneezing, I've just

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Speaker 2: realized that I have this problem.

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Speaker 1: You know, there are pills for that now, but it

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Speaker 1: begs the question, why would you not have a problem

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Speaker 1: in England, a different weather, different thing.

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Speaker 2: You know, I think I have had this problem, but

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Speaker 2: I've thought, for some strange reason, I've thought I've got

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Speaker 2: a cold rather than I've got allergies. It's just the

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Speaker 2: realization that, yeah, hay fever affects me. And I'm seventy

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Speaker 2: nine years old and I've just found that out, which

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Speaker 2: is a bit embarrassing.

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Speaker 1: Really. How's your health otherwise?

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Speaker 2: Actually pretty good. I have to say the usual aches

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Speaker 2: and pains that people coming into the autumn of their

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Speaker 2: careers will suffer from, but generally speaking pretty good.

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Speaker 1: Actually, yeah, okay, you know, we are a generation they

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Speaker 1: thought we were going to rule till we die, but

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Speaker 1: we are going to die. Okay. So I found I

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Speaker 1: turned sixty and it was like I've seen the trick.

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Speaker 1: But once I turned seventy, it's a whole new thing.

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Speaker 1: So what's your perspective of aging?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think my wife always says it's just a number.

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Speaker 2: If I try to talk about it with her, It's

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Speaker 2: just a number. Just get on with it. I think.

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Speaker 2: Actually that's important things to just keep busy, you know,

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Speaker 2: find something that intrigues you, interests you, and throw yourself

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Speaker 2: into it. That's what I would say, and that's what

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Speaker 2: I try and do. I love music. I'm always trying

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Speaker 2: to write. I'll record at the drop of a hat,

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Speaker 2: and I'll tour at the drop of the hat too.

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Speaker 2: I love doing that and as a complete alternative, it's

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Speaker 2: just great. When I'm not working, I love to be

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Speaker 2: at home with my family.

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Speaker 1: So Rod Hargen had a stroke. He's not hitting the

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Speaker 1: road anymore, that's right. So to what degree are you working,

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Speaker 1: whether it be live or recording.

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Speaker 2: Well, I've always had a solo band, I'll be honest

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Speaker 2: with you. I've never said this to Rod, but I

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Speaker 2: wondered how long he would keep touring because I was

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Speaker 2: very successful songwriter. He's been a very successful producer in

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Speaker 2: his time. He really doesn't need to be getting out

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Speaker 2: on the road and not sleeping and all the things

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Speaker 2: that go with being out on the road. But he

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Speaker 2: loves playing. And we got together in nineteen ninety nine,

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Speaker 2: and I wondered how long he would keep touring, and

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Speaker 2: we've kept it going to twenty twenty four. It was

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Speaker 2: last year that he had his stroke. But I wondered

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Speaker 2: how long he would keep touring, and so I always

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Speaker 2: kept a solo bang going. I've sort of had that

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Speaker 2: tucked up my sleeve, and so now I slipped back listen.

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Speaker 2: I would have loved to kept this Zombisky for as long.

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Speaker 2: We always said that for as long as we're physically capable,

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Speaker 2: we want to keep this guying. We're having such a

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Speaker 2: great time, and also it's so unexpected. The band finished

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Speaker 2: in sixty seven. It's insane. What are we doing playing now?

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Speaker 2: I don't understand. It's a mystery, but I don't have

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Speaker 2: to understand it. I love it, so let's keep going.

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Speaker 2: But I always get when there's a break. I would

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Speaker 2: I would tour and record with my solo ban which

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Speaker 2: I must admit. The band has changed personnel over the years,

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Speaker 2: as these band as bands do, but it's a really

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Speaker 2: nice group of guys at the moment. I've just come

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Speaker 2: back from Germany and Holland. Just a few days before

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Speaker 2: I came over here and I was with my solo man.

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Speaker 2: It was great, playing a completely different program to what

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Speaker 2: I would play with the Zombies. I play. She's not

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Speaker 2: their time of the season. This will be our year.

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Speaker 2: That's about it. Otherwise it's completely different tunes and it's

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Speaker 2: it's nice to to break things up and do you

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Speaker 2: know a completely different repertoire?

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Speaker 1: So you playing in Germany? Do they know your solo

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Speaker 1: material the audience.

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Speaker 2: I wish you hadn't asked me about Germany. Actually, it

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Speaker 2: is not one of my not one of my great

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Speaker 2: success areas some doing some don't should we say that?

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Speaker 2: But if you wishes mentioned Holland, it's a different, different

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Speaker 2: kind of fish. It always intrigues me. These countries are

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Speaker 2: right next door to one another, or you can say

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Speaker 2: Holland and Belgium. They have different hits, they know different artists,

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Speaker 2: and you have to be aware of where you're going.

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Speaker 2: What do they know any of your songs? And if

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Speaker 2: they do, what songs are they because they'll be expecting

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Speaker 2: to hear them. And in Holland, I've had a lot

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Speaker 2: of hits and it's always a thrill to go back there.

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Speaker 1: Let's say you're playing like someplace like Germany where the

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Speaker 1: audience doesn't know all your material. How do you perform

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Speaker 1: such that you win them over and keep their attention.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think the first thing is to have a

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Speaker 2: bit of a pep talk before you go on stage

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Speaker 2: and you just say, okay, come on, guys, this we've

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Speaker 2: really got to pull it out of the bag this time.

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Speaker 2: Attle bit like with the sports team, you know, and

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Speaker 2: say it's going to be tough. We know that it's

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Speaker 2: going to be tough, but I think an audience always

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Speaker 2: appreciates a hundred effort. I mean, listen, you have to

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Speaker 2: have a degree of professionalist and you have to understand

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Speaker 2: your instrument or be able to sing the songs. Of

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Speaker 2: course you do, but they appreciate one hundred percent commitment

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Speaker 2: and you can usually bring people around if you go

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Speaker 2: out there and give one hundred percent. That's the best

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Speaker 2: you can do.

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Speaker 1: Okay. As you mentioned earlier, Rod wrote some of the

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Speaker 1: hits alone and in addition had a success with his

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Speaker 1: band eponymously named Origent. But you were not a member

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Speaker 1: of the Money tends to be in publishing. So are

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Speaker 1: you working because you have to or because you want

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Speaker 1: to or both?

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Speaker 2: Well, in the Original band, I was very much working

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Speaker 2: because I had to, And you're right. I think I

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Speaker 2: think that the writers should of course be paid in full,

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Speaker 2: and you know I'm I'm not in any way after

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Speaker 2: their money. I always say, if you haven't got a

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Speaker 2: good song, you can all pack up and go home.

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Speaker 2: This is before you start. You're wasting your time if

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Speaker 2: you haven't got good songs. So we should treasure and

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Speaker 2: nurture the writers. And we had two great writers in

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Speaker 2: the Zombies and Rod Argent and Chris White, and we

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Speaker 2: were extremely lucky to have them. It does happen, though,

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Speaker 2: that their income stream is completely separate to the band

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Speaker 2: and of course they're living a different life to the

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Speaker 2: three non writers, and that was one of the reasons

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Speaker 2: why the band finished. That the three non writers had

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Speaker 2: no money, so it was tough. Over the years, I've

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Speaker 2: managed to establish a career, so I'm fortunate enough now

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Speaker 2: that no, I don't have to work, but I love it.

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Speaker 2: And also at the back of my mind, I'm thinking,

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Speaker 2: at this time in my life, if I was to stop,

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Speaker 2: it would be very hard to start up again. And

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Speaker 2: that's a motivation in itself. I think, you know, I'm

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Speaker 2: going to be in my eighties soon. I'm not going

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Speaker 2: to have a gap and come back at eighty five.

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Speaker 2: It's it's not going to happen, So I want to

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Speaker 2: keep it going. You know what does it use it

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Speaker 2: or lose it?

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Speaker 1: Right? Okay, you have a new documentary. We'll get to

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Speaker 1: that in a second, but it talks about when the

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Speaker 1: Zombies break up. You get a job an insurance office,

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Speaker 1: and it goes through your ups and downs. You go back,

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Speaker 1: you record under Neil MacArthur. Since that time, have you

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Speaker 1: been forced to get a day job?

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Speaker 2: Oh no, no, no, no, no no, I mean from

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Speaker 2: the time a little bit after my Neil MacArthur episode.

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Speaker 2: I went back to my real name, and I had

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Speaker 2: regular hits for the next twenty something years, and then

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Speaker 2: there was a bit of a drought. The music business

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Speaker 2: is peaks and troughs. You know, you've got to learn

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Speaker 2: how to get through those. I think you need to

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Speaker 2: have a degree of musicality, of course, but also you

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Speaker 2: need to have tenacity. You have to learn how to survive,

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Speaker 2: I think in the music business. I hope that doesn't sound.

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Speaker 1: Too no, no, that sounds to.

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Speaker 2: You know, well, there's going to be except for a

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Speaker 2: minute percentage at the top of the business. You know,

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Speaker 2: you know, the big names. Apart from them, you're going

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Speaker 2: to have struggles, and you've got to learn how to

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Speaker 2: get through those struggles and stay positive and stay energized

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Speaker 2: when when it seems the world's against you. You have

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Speaker 2: to do that. I'm sure that's happened to me over

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Speaker 2: the years.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so okay, let's break it down. Your solo records

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Speaker 1: were not commercially successful in the US.

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Speaker 2: They certainly weren't, so.

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Speaker 1: You know, they were successful elsewhere, so it wasn't a

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Speaker 1: matter of not being in the grooves. Were you aware

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Speaker 1: of that time, were you frustrated. Why do you think

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Speaker 1: they weren't successful in the States.

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Speaker 2: I didn't think they've fitted in any format that might

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Speaker 2: be something to do with it. I mean, my first

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Speaker 2: of album, A lot of that album features a string

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Speaker 2: quartet with wonderful string arrangements by Chris Gunning, just like

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Speaker 2: Bartok esque arrangements, And for some reason radio in the

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Speaker 2: UK accepted it. But I don't fully understand why they did,

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Speaker 2: because there's nothing else like that. But it didn't work

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Speaker 2: in America, and I never quite got a level of

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Speaker 2: acceptance with the American media, particularly radio.

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Speaker 1: And do you think it's possibly a lack of effort

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Speaker 1: by the label or a manager, or that's just the breaks.

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Speaker 2: Well, at the end of the day, I think it's

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Speaker 2: just the breaks, isn't it. I mean, I'm not going

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Speaker 2: to start pushing responsibility onto other people, a little bit

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Speaker 2: of everyone, maybe including me. I mean, I don't think

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Speaker 2: I really knew how to how did it go about

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Speaker 2: things properly? You know, it's very dissipated everything I did.

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Speaker 2: I don't think I still don't really understand the business

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Speaker 2: at all, especially considering I've been in it so long.

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Speaker 2: But I think that sometimes you know, certainly management could

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Speaker 2: have been a bit better. The Zombies have been very lucky.

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Speaker 2: They've they've fallen in with a very wonderful management company,

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Speaker 2: and I think that's when things started to turn round

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Speaker 2: for the second incarnation of the Zombies, when we signed

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Speaker 2: with the Rocks, a new management company.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you talked about the ups and downs and surviving.

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Speaker 1: How do you survive emotionally and financially? I mean, you've

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Speaker 1: had most people tend to have one peak, that's it. Okay,

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Speaker 1: you had multiple peaks. You had peak with zombies, peak

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Speaker 1: working under another name, peak working under your name. Then

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Speaker 1: things lie out and then the zombies come back. How

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Speaker 1: do you handle would financially and emotionally.

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Speaker 2: Well, Financially it is tricky at times. You have to

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Speaker 2: just cut back on what you spend. You know, you

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Speaker 2: have to live at very what people wouldn't think that

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Speaker 2: people in contemporary music would lift that kind of lifestyle.

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Speaker 2: I mean there have been times when in the winter

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't be able to put the heat on, I'd

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Speaker 2: go to bed to keep warm. What age that would

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Speaker 2: have been when I was probably forty or something like that,

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Speaker 2: maybe in the mid eight I think the mid eighties

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Speaker 2: were really bad for me. But what really saved me,

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Speaker 2: I think, was that every so many years, quite possibly,

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Speaker 2: when I might be thinking I've got to find something else,

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Speaker 2: something would come along. And none of these records charted

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Speaker 2: in America. So it's something in some ways it makes

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Speaker 2: it more difficult to explain. But every four or five

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Speaker 2: years I would be involved in a big record and

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Speaker 2: that would bring the energy back, bring the self belief back,

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Speaker 2: and you'd start again. It's just sort of a cycle,

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Speaker 2: isn't it really, And you try to hang on to

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Speaker 2: this bit of success while you can, but it's like

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Speaker 2: trying to hold sand. You know you're desperately you can

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Speaker 2: see it or draining out of your hand as you

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Speaker 2: go along. And then the cycle goes on, and then

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Speaker 2: I would find myself. The two things I used to

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Speaker 2: do when things are really bad. And this sounds a

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Speaker 2: little bit lightweight, but this is what I used to do.

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Speaker 2: I'd get my address book and i'd start at a

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Speaker 2: and I'd just go all the way through it to

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Speaker 2: like and I always found someone who wanted to talk

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Speaker 2: about maybe, yeah, just could there be a project there?

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Speaker 2: Why don't we go together and have a chat? Always

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Speaker 2: the other thing I would do, which is even perhaps

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Speaker 2: a little stranger is I would get in the bath,

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Speaker 2: because have you ever noticed when you get in the

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Speaker 2: bath the phone rings.

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Speaker 1: I noticed when I get in the shower. That's what

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Speaker 1: I have all my clear thinking.

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Speaker 2: Well as far as but if you get into a bath,

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Speaker 2: I guarantee the phone will ring. And that was my

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Speaker 2: last My last resort would be again in the bath

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Speaker 2: at the phone would ring, and I just hope it's

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Speaker 2: the offer of some work.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So let's say you're going through your address book

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Speaker 1: A Z, Yeah, you call me up. How hard a

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Speaker 1: pitch would it be? How would you get to the point?

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Speaker 2: Oh no, we'd be very conversational. What have you been doing?

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Speaker 2: Tell me what you've been doing? Do you know anyone?

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Speaker 2: I know anything I can grab hold of here? You're written,

257
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Speaker 2: any songs? You know any projects? Anybody needs some singing.

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Speaker 2: But I wouldn't say it in those words. I would

259
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Speaker 2: just saying, how's things, what you been doing? Anything I

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Speaker 2: can get involved in?

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Speaker 1: But you would ultimately put it.

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Speaker 2: Out there in a very subtle way.

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Speaker 1: But the person on the other end could miss it.

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Speaker 2: I hope not. Otherwise I'm wasting a time calling him.

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Speaker 1: Okay, how about going to see people in person that

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Speaker 1: were not in your address book, saying, well, maybe I

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Speaker 1: have to go to London hang out. Maybe i'll bump

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Speaker 1: into something.

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Speaker 2: I'm not so good at that. Years ago, when I

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Speaker 2: was younger, I would even just going to London is

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Speaker 2: I used to live in the center of London, and

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Speaker 2: I think I just sort of kind of London's wonderful,

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Speaker 2: you know, But as you get older, it's it's frantic,

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Speaker 2: it's full of people, it's very noisy, and I find

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Speaker 2: it quite challenging just to go to London, let alone

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Speaker 2: go to meet people. No, I'm not very good socially,

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Speaker 2: and i'd tell you another reason why. It might be

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Speaker 2: if you're in a band, you're used to people coming

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Speaker 2: to you socially, and that happened to me a lot

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Speaker 2: in my formative years. So when I was a teenager,

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Speaker 2: we're playing, people would come up. This sounds like such

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Speaker 2: a silly thing to say. I find it hard to

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Speaker 2: go up and talk to people, and I'm embarrassed to

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Speaker 2: say it, but I do. And so I'm not very

285
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Speaker 2: good at, you know, circulating and meeting people in music

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Speaker 2: business circles. I'd go to something like that, and I

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Speaker 2: would stand in the corner all on my own and

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Speaker 2: just sulk out of the door. Eventually when no one

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Speaker 2: speaks to me.

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Speaker 1: So okay, So let's say you're home now with your wife,

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Speaker 1: and your wife says, hey, you know someone invited us.

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Speaker 1: Let's go. Are you going to say, ok, let me

293
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Speaker 1: get ready? You're going to say, I don't think I

294
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Speaker 1: want to go?

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm afraid yeah. It would be the second I

296
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Speaker 2: al would say how much do you want to go?

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Speaker 2: How much do you want to go? Trying what's a

298
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Speaker 2: put too much pressure on them? How much do you

299
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Speaker 2: want to go? And she said I really would like

300
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Speaker 2: to go? I said, okay, let's go.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back a step back. When the Zombies

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Speaker 1: had their original hits, recording contracts were horrific in terms

303
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Speaker 1: of the percentage the acts got. In addition, as we

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Speaker 1: established earlier, most of the money is in publishing. Have

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00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:40,800
Speaker 1: you ever gotten a royalty on a record, whether it

306
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Speaker 1: be the Zombies or anything else?

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Speaker 2: I have, not on many, I hasten to add, but

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Speaker 2: I have, and some very healthy ones, but only on

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Speaker 2: a few. It's mostly the Zombies. The Zombies sell a

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Speaker 2: lot of requords. There's a big mystery in the Zombies.

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Speaker 2: I don't Okay, So you're a member of a band,

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Speaker 2: there's five people in the band and you have a

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Speaker 2: shitty deal. Was the deal renegotiated at some point? I

314
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Speaker 2: think there's a lot of it. Again, I'm embarrassed to

315
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Speaker 2: say this. I'm not sure I fully understand everything that happened.

316
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Speaker 2: But what I will tell you is we didn't sign

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Speaker 2: to a record label in the sixties. We signed to

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Speaker 2: a production company and they signed to the record label.

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Speaker 2: So all of our masters reverted to us. Oh that

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Speaker 2: made a huge difference. Okay, you know a lot of

321
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Speaker 2: acts made deal sixties or seventies. It was a standard provision.

322
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Speaker 2: You get twenty five years, you get the record back,

323
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Speaker 2: the Errol Smith, a lot of other racks to get

324
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Speaker 2: another bite at the apple. They got rid of that

325
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Speaker 2: to a great degree. Was somebody smart making the deal

326
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Speaker 2: or that was just a standard deal. I just think

327
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Speaker 2: we were lucky. We met someone. It was a friend

328
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Speaker 2: of Chris White's uncle. Bizarre thing. Who was going to

329
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Speaker 2: look look at the contracts we've been offered. We're eighteen

330
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Speaker 2: years old, we know nothing, and at the end of

331
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Speaker 2: the evening. Look at these contracts we've been offered. He said,

332
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Speaker 2: I'll tell you what. We this production company that he

333
00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:16,520
Speaker 2: earned his name was Ken Jones. He became our producer

334
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Speaker 2: and he had a partner called Joe Roncroni, and he said,

335
00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:23,040
Speaker 2: we will offer you better than these deals. And we

336
00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:25,959
Speaker 2: went with them, and they did look after us, they

337
00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:29,560
Speaker 2: really did, and they protected us from the worst of

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Speaker 2: the of the things that had happened to you with

339
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Speaker 2: a record company. I think where we came unstuck really

340
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Speaker 2: was in live performances. We never really made any money

341
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Speaker 2: on the road, and we worked all the time.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let's stay with the record today. Could you live

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Speaker 1: off the royalties alone?

344
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Speaker 2: Yes?

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Speaker 1: Wow, that's pretty amazing, considering multiple members of the band, etc.

346
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Speaker 2: I know it's good, isn't it. Hey?

347
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Speaker 1: You know it's been sixty years. Has it gone up

348
00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:03,240
Speaker 1: and down in this last twenty five years, been a

349
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Speaker 1: renaissance going up? Or has it always been consistent?

350
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Speaker 2: No renaissance going up? And the eighties around there, it

351
00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:13,440
Speaker 2: didn't seem to be making a lot of money. And

352
00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:16,520
Speaker 2: then slowly but surely I remember sort of the first

353
00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:19,719
Speaker 2: check coming through that was really worth having. I'm on

354
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Speaker 2: the phone to Rod, you got the post yet? This

355
00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:26,920
Speaker 2: check just going what's happening? And I don't know what

356
00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:30,879
Speaker 2: is happening? And gradually the checks and we used to

357
00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:35,240
Speaker 2: get to we've just negotiated a new deal. But in

358
00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:39,040
Speaker 2: these old, these old checks, we would get two a

359
00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:42,959
Speaker 2: year and every six month. You know, my hands are

360
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:47,560
Speaker 2: shut when the postman goes has the bubble burst? But

361
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Speaker 2: it didn't. And if I say I don't fully understand

362
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Speaker 2: what's happened with the Zombies, I'm embarrassed to say it,

363
00:20:55,840 --> 00:21:00,840
Speaker 2: but it's honestly the truth. The Zombies records sell in

364
00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:04,439
Speaker 2: very healthy quantities around the world and have done for

365
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Speaker 2: the last twenty or twenty five years.

366
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Speaker 1: Okay, how much? This is hard to split up, but

367
00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:14,200
Speaker 1: I'm gonna try anyway. You have the original in America,

368
00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:16,399
Speaker 1: Original two Hitch, She's not there to tell her no

369
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:20,120
Speaker 1: Bam breaks up. You have Time Sea of the Season.

370
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Speaker 1: But that album grows Out've see an Oracle grows in

371
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Speaker 1: reputation over the years. Is it about the hit or

372
00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:34,080
Speaker 1: is it about the album that is driving this mania?

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Speaker 2: I think it's the album. And it's almost as though

374
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Speaker 2: the album did it on its own, because no one

375
00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:45,040
Speaker 2: was promoting it, No one was marketing it. It had

376
00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:47,760
Speaker 2: gone you know, it was really never a hit. I

377
00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:51,040
Speaker 2: looked it up. It went to ninety eight in Billboard

378
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:54,919
Speaker 2: for one week and disappeared. Rolling Stone named it as

379
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Speaker 2: one of the top hundred albums of all time. And

380
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Speaker 2: you see the albums around it, you know, it's the

381
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:05,400
Speaker 2: Beatles and Simon and Garfunk, all these wonderful classic albums,

382
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Speaker 2: and there's little old honesty on Oracle right in the

383
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:12,040
Speaker 2: middle that was never really a hit. And there's just

384
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Speaker 2: there is a mistique about that album. It's just word

385
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Speaker 2: of mouth. People like Tom Petty in America and Dave

386
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:24,919
Speaker 2: Gohl and Susannah Hoffs and people have quoted it so

387
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Speaker 2: often as a favorite album, and it's really helped.

388
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Speaker 1: Okay, general question. You're the singer, you're the front person.

389
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Speaker 1: You're not writing the lyrics. That is relatively rare. There

390
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Speaker 1: are bands like Rush where the drummer wrote the lyrics.

391
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Speaker 1: What's it like singing somebody else's lyrics, especially I won't

392
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:52,000
Speaker 1: say they're unbelievably personal, but they're delivered in a very

393
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Speaker 1: personal way.

394
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Speaker 2: Well, I think I was, you know, I was brought

395
00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:02,480
Speaker 2: up doing that all about three formative years. I never

396
00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:06,080
Speaker 2: contributed to the songs. I don't want to say that

397
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,920
Speaker 2: I did in any way at all, but Rod always

398
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:12,240
Speaker 2: worked with me with the songs. The phrasing of the

399
00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:16,720
Speaker 2: songs is always very important. There's nothing thrown together about,

400
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:20,960
Speaker 2: especially our laser performances. Rod has always got a vision

401
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:24,080
Speaker 2: on how a song should be phrased, and we spend

402
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:26,880
Speaker 2: a lot of time on that, and so it feels

403
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:29,920
Speaker 2: very natural to me when I'm performing it for real

404
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,600
Speaker 2: as if I wrote it, because we spent a lot

405
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,359
Speaker 2: of time on it, and I hope I fully understand

406
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:38,800
Speaker 2: what he's trying to say and how he's trying to

407
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:41,919
Speaker 2: say it, and most importantly, how he's trying to phrase it.

408
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:45,240
Speaker 2: And he's very patient, and he knows what he wants

409
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Speaker 2: and he's determined to get it too. He's very tenacious.

410
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 1: I tell you, Okay, in your solo career, you have

411
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:58,560
Speaker 1: a noted song about an ex girlfriend, Caroline. How did

412
00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:01,440
Speaker 1: that come to be an What did she say about it?

413
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,200
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if she was all that pleased. Really,

414
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:09,119
Speaker 1: it came about you know, I was just a fledgling writer,

415
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:13,359
Speaker 1: and you know you're a teenager or early twenties or something.

416
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:17,720
Speaker 1: You write about heartbreak. That's how you most people start anyway,

417
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,920
Speaker 1: And so I did. I just wrote down what was happening.

418
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:24,720
Speaker 1: But I always planned to change the name.

419
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:28,120
Speaker 2: Of course. I wasn't going to use the real name.

420
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:32,400
Speaker 2: And the recording day came out and can you think

421
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:35,920
Speaker 2: of another name that would It's a little late now perhaps,

422
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,480
Speaker 2: but I often say that to people, if you can

423
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:42,960
Speaker 2: think of another name that fits. Maybe it's a bit late,

424
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 2: but maybe we could slit the other name in. And

425
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:48,159
Speaker 2: so I took a chance and I recorded it with

426
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 2: the real name in there. And a journalist knew the

427
00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:55,959
Speaker 2: story who worked for a national newspaper in England, and

428
00:24:56,000 --> 00:25:00,239
Speaker 2: he did a full page story about that. That's it

429
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 2: wasn't a hit, he just did it. But I think

430
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:05,199
Speaker 2: she was very beautiful and it was a way of

431
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 2: getting a picture of a girl in a bikini into

432
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,680
Speaker 2: the newspaper because it was about her as much as

433
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:14,959
Speaker 2: the song, and the secret was out, you know, and

434
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 2: it's I mean, I don't think it's anything to be

435
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:20,920
Speaker 2: too embarrassed about. But it wasn't my intention to use

436
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:21,640
Speaker 2: the real name.

437
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:24,400
Speaker 1: So did you ever hear from her about it?

438
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:31,159
Speaker 2: I've met her, but she's never really said much since then.

439
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,160
Speaker 2: I've never really discussed it with her, but I mean,

440
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:38,520
Speaker 2: I hope she wouldn't be offended. There's nothing to be

441
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:41,359
Speaker 2: offended about in there. But I am a little bit

442
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,680
Speaker 2: self conscious about it. Okay, us the real name.

443
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:47,160
Speaker 1: Okay, just to go back, you did have a relationship

444
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:50,240
Speaker 1: with her, right, I did. Okay, It wasn't something from

445
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:52,920
Speaker 1: Afar being no no, no, no no. So how long

446
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:53,879
Speaker 1: did it go on? Oh?

447
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 2: It was a couple of years. And she was very young,

448
00:25:57,440 --> 00:25:59,639
Speaker 2: and I think she was so was I. She was

449
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:03,439
Speaker 2: about seventeen, I think, and I was nineteen or something

450
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,399
Speaker 2: like that. And I, you know, I was always a

451
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:10,520
Speaker 2: huge romantic. And it's funny because the guys in the

452
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:12,720
Speaker 2: band would always say I would be the first one

453
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:16,400
Speaker 2: to be married. At the time, I thought we would

454
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:23,200
Speaker 2: be married, and I honestly it's terrible, but seventy nine,

455
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 2: I'm talking about a romance I have when I.

456
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:26,159
Speaker 1: Was nineteen actual.

457
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:31,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, anyway, she got a partner film in Spain,

458
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:34,120
Speaker 2: and this is how my mind worked at that time.

459
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:36,320
Speaker 2: I thought, this is okay, she's going to be away

460
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 2: for six months. If we can get through this six

461
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:43,520
Speaker 2: months apart, then we really should get married. How presumptuous,

462
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:46,879
Speaker 2: you know. I didn't say that to her. It's just

463
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:49,399
Speaker 2: what I was thinking. And of course she met someone

464
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:54,880
Speaker 2: on the film and she married him. That was That

465
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:56,919
Speaker 2: was the end of the relationship, but it was the

466
00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,919
Speaker 2: beginning of the song. You see, every cloud has a

467
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,879
Speaker 2: silver lining. And so I lost the girl, but I

468
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 2: found the song.

469
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 1: Now, this woman was an actress, however young. How'd you

470
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 1: meet her?

471
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:14,399
Speaker 2: There was a some kind of presentation night for the

472
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 2: zombies and she was involved. David Bailey, the photographer, named

473
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 2: her as the face of the year.

474
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:23,440
Speaker 1: Right.

475
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 2: I can't remember what year it was, but it was

476
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 2: a long time, right right. I named her the face

477
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 2: of the year, and part of her prize for being

478
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 2: the face of the year was to be at this

479
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 2: presentation thing that we went to, and I just said

480
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 2: to her, would you like to come to a club afterwards?

481
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:41,680
Speaker 2: And that's how I met her.

482
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 1: Okay, you've been married how many times?

483
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:49,680
Speaker 2: Twice though I don't always count the first time.

484
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 1: So how old we were married the first time?

485
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 2: Old enough to know better.

486
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,360
Speaker 1: I'm old enough to know better because.

487
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 2: Because I married a total stranger when I was blind drunk.

488
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:08,920
Speaker 1: There's more to the story than that you met the person.

489
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 1: How long after you met her did you marry her?

490
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 2: About seven or eight days?

491
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:17,800
Speaker 1: Tell me the story.

492
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:22,399
Speaker 2: Well, I was hoping you'd say that I signed a

493
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 2: Rocket Records and I've made a record with Gus Dudgeon,

494
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 2: super bloke, great producer. We spent a lot of money.

495
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 2: I had lunch with Elton and shortly after we'd made it,

496
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 2: and you know, I said what do you think of

497
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 2: the album? And he may not have used these words,

498
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 2: but you know, he said, well, I don't really like it.

499
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 2: And we spent I felt terrible. We spent a fortune.

500
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 2: And he said to me, you know what I think

501
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 2: you should do. You go to California and record, as

502
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 2: you know, West Coast Rock album, which is what I did.

503
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 2: I came over here and I recorded with Bill Shne

504
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 2: and wonderful group of musicians, and I recorded in LA

505
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 2: and I ended up back in England. Now I've I've

506
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 2: recorded the record. Right for recording two albums, Now I'm

507
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 2: up to a huge amount of money. I dread to think.

508
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,960
Speaker 2: And because the Zombies finished at the end of the seventies,

509
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 2: I haven't played live since the end of the seventies

510
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 2: and the sixties, sorry, the end of the sixties, this

511
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 2: is the mid seventies. I've spent probably one hundred and

512
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 2: fifty one hundred and seventy thousand pounds, which would be

513
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 2: more in dollars, and they wanted me to come back

514
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,959
Speaker 2: here and promote it and play some live dates and things.

515
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 2: That's the weight on my shoulders for the responsibility of

516
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 2: spending this money, and then the anxiety of can I

517
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 2: still perform live? And it was getting very close to

518
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 2: flight time to come over here, and I met a

519
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 2: very beautiful, vivacious, confident young lady who helped me get

520
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 2: carried away with the whole spirit of the time. I

521
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 2: drank a lot of champagne to take the edge off

522
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 2: my anxiety. I found myself married. That was it, really.

523
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 1: Okay, let's break it down. Did you end up doing

524
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 1: the West Coast dates? The live date?

525
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 2: Actually most of them seemed to fade away. I did

526
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 2: lots of interviews. I don't remember actually performing live, so

527
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 2: that was a relief. But I did do lots of interviews,

528
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 2: and having just met this young lady about two days

529
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 2: after we got married, might have been the next day,

530
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 2: I can't remember. I came to California. So when I

531
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 2: was doing this, I had literally just got married to someone,

532
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 2: and of course then I had to go home and

533
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:05,959
Speaker 2: we had to face up to what we've done. And

534
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 2: it was a tricky one. It was a tricky one.

535
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 1: But how long did it last?

536
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 2: Not very long, I'm afraid. I mean like two weeks,

537
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 2: three years, a few months, I would maybe a little

538
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 2: bit longer than that, maybe a little bit longer.

539
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 1: Okay, So how did it end? And we're both people

540
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 1: happy or were certain people unhappy?

541
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:31,960
Speaker 2: Well, she went off around the world and she just

542
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 2: take quite a long time in La actually, and she

543
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 2: lived with a very famous rock and roll manager here

544
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 2: longer than she lived with me. I mean, you don't

545
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 2: know whether to laugh or cry in these situations, do

546
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 2: you really? And then she went off to Japan and

547
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 2: eventually she came back and we sorted things out. I

548
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 2: was a huge learning experience for me.

549
00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 1: Well, other than the fact I don't get married after

550
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 1: you meet someone drunk in a bar, what were the

551
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 1: other lessons?

552
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, don't yeah, don't marry a total stained stranger

553
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 2: when you're blind drunk. That was the main one, right,

554
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 2: And it certainly will hit you financially, that's for sure. Right,

555
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 2: they were the two main lessons I think.

556
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 1: Yes, Okay, so how all were you when that happened?

557
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 2: Oh, thirty three?

558
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,960
Speaker 1: Okay? So when did he get married the second time?

559
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 2: The second time, it's a different kettle of fish. I

560
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 2: met a wonderful lady who was actually an airline stewardess.

561
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 2: But I didn't meet her on an aeroplane. I just

562
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 2: met a few friends, you know, And I think I

563
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 2: was about forty two when I got married. We've been

564
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 2: married for thirty eight years and we have one daughter.

565
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 2: It's wonderful. She's a doctor, and it's been a wonderful marriage.

566
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 2: And you know, maybe I learned something from that. You know,

567
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 2: I'm embarrassed about that first marriage, for my sake and

568
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 2: for the person I'm marriage. You know, I would apologize

569
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 2: to everyone concerned. I should have known better. But I

570
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 2: learned a lot out of that.

571
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 1: You know.

572
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 2: I learned marriage is a very serious commitment and you

573
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 2: have to work at it, and you have to be

574
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 2: sure of the person you're marrying and they have to

575
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 2: be sure of you. And for the second marriage, it's

576
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 2: really worked out incredibly well. And maybe it wouldn't have

577
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 2: worked out if I hadn't done that insane thing. How

578
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:36,200
Speaker 2: did we get onto the subject of marriages.

579
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 1: Because we're asking about the song about Caroline.

580
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 2: Or perhaps that's what it was. Yeah, and you said

581
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 2: how many times have you been married?

582
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 1: Right?

583
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:53,240
Speaker 2: And I said, well, kind of twice, Okay.

584
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:57,240
Speaker 1: The nature of being someone who is successful in the

585
00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 1: public eye first, I mean, I'm just speak in English here.

586
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 1: Many people are attracted to performers and songs in a

587
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 1: different way from movies starts, because the performers embody the song,

588
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 1: it is them. So yes, when you're in the public eye,

589
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 1: I would think there are people who had attracted you

590
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:23,799
Speaker 1: because of that. And then there's also your identity, and

591
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:28,240
Speaker 1: there's relative power struggles as opposed to just meeting people

592
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 1: in your hometown. Did you experience that? Oh?

593
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 2: Absolutely, of course all musicians have experienced that. And I

594
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 2: think when I was younger, I didn't really understand the

595
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:43,880
Speaker 2: difference between meeting people on the road, you know, backstage,

596
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 2: and meeting someone in your hometown. It is different. I

597
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:53,319
Speaker 2: can always remember I was managed for some time by

598
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,800
Speaker 2: the same person who managed Cat Stevens, and I remember

599
00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:00,720
Speaker 2: him saying to me you you you know, meet people,

600
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 2: go out with people that you meet on their own.

601
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:08,239
Speaker 2: Well what everybody did, right, you know, he couldn't believe it,

602
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:13,240
Speaker 2: And I think you have to be on your guard

603
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:18,879
Speaker 2: for the people at the show's sake and for your sake.

604
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:21,400
Speaker 2: But you know, I'm married now, there's.

605
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 1: Right, right we're talking about.

606
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's there's an imbalance. You know, if you're

607
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:32,280
Speaker 2: a performer and someone is attracted to you as a performer,

608
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:37,359
Speaker 2: it's not fair on them. There's saying something that's that's

609
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 2: not there, and so you just have to be you

610
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:45,840
Speaker 2: have a responsibility to protect them and yourself. Really, I think,

611
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:48,279
Speaker 2: I mean it's easy for me to say that now.

612
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 2: You know, I said earlier I'm seventy nine. Now I've

613
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 2: been married for thirty eight years. But I still believe

614
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:55,240
Speaker 2: that's true.

615
00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:59,880
Speaker 1: Okay, So you make your present wife where she for

616
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 1: familiar with you in your career.

617
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:04,919
Speaker 2: A little bit, I think, But it was more a

618
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:10,320
Speaker 2: meeting of mutual friends, you know. I think she was aware, yeah,

619
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:12,360
Speaker 2: but not over impressed.

620
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 1: Okay, So she's a flight attendant, you're a rock and roller.

621
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:19,880
Speaker 1: How does your daughter end up a doctor?

622
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:30,719
Speaker 2: Well, she's very academic she enjoys taking exams. And I

623
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:33,400
Speaker 2: tell you what happened. She used to go to a

624
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 2: summer school, and then as she got older, she became

625
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:39,839
Speaker 2: a helper at the summer school. And there was a

626
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 2: problem with someone in a swimming pool. You know, they

627
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:47,720
Speaker 2: could have died, and she, as a young teenager, helped

628
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 2: to revive them, and she felt something about what had

629
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:56,360
Speaker 2: happened there. And from then on there was part of

630
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 2: her that definitely wanted to explore, at least the idea

631
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:03,880
Speaker 2: of being a doctor. And she went on and she

632
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 2: did it. She's very bright and very tenacious as well.

633
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:15,799
Speaker 2: And now she qualified years ago, but she's now a

634
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:20,839
Speaker 2: psychiatrist actually, and she said that there are probably two

635
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 2: or three treatable traits in me that should be attended to.

636
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:28,080
Speaker 2: I haven't actually asked what they are, but obviously she

637
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 2: sees traits in me that could do with a little

638
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:35,840
Speaker 2: bit of work. Maybe I'll get one of her friends

639
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:38,279
Speaker 2: to try and psychoanalyze me.

640
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 1: Or whatever they do.

641
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:39,719
Speaker 2: I don't know what.

642
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 1: They do, Okay, unfortunately, or fortunately I know what they do.

643
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,799
Speaker 1: But being on the other side of the or being

644
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 1: on the couch, so to speak. But your daughter's obviously

645
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 1: very successful. You're a musician. Is this totally self directed?

646
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:56,799
Speaker 1: Or when she was growing up, were you and your

647
00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 1: wife saying, hey, pay attention to your school, do this,

648
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 1: do that?

649
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 2: No, but she did. She would come home from school

650
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 2: to get her school book books out, and she would

651
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:11,960
Speaker 2: do homework. But what we would do was we would

652
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:16,839
Speaker 2: keep the house quiet, TV's off, you know, we would

653
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:18,960
Speaker 2: try and make it easy for her. But we never

654
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:21,839
Speaker 2: had to say work. The one thing I regret this,

655
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:26,400
Speaker 2: the one thing I did do was one evening she

656
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 2: was singing, and the conversation went along the lines of,

657
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 2: you know, could me and my friends could we make

658
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 2: a record? And I really regret this, but it's a

659
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:42,800
Speaker 2: tough business, you know, and especially perhaps for girl singers

660
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:45,359
Speaker 2: as well. They're very vulnerable and there's so many good

661
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 2: girl singers out there. And I said no, no, no, don't.

662
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:49,919
Speaker 1: I wish.

663
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 2: I really regret it, but I said don't. And she

664
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:53,719
Speaker 2: just wanted a bit of fun.

665
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 1: Really.

666
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:55,920
Speaker 2: I think she would have liked to have made a

667
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 2: record with her friends. And I don't know, I don't

668
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:02,719
Speaker 2: do that, don't do that. And I wish I'd have

669
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:06,279
Speaker 2: said I'll fix the studio, let's make a record with

670
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:09,160
Speaker 2: you and your pals. I wish i'd done that, But

671
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 2: that was the only time that I kind of closed

672
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:17,320
Speaker 2: her down on something she wanted to do, just because

673
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:20,239
Speaker 2: I was concerned. I knew how often tough it was,

674
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 2: and I was trying to protect her. But the memory

675
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 2: of it embarrasses me.

676
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 1: You know, Okay, she grows up and you hear about

677
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:34,880
Speaker 1: the progeny of people who are not impressed with the

678
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:37,799
Speaker 1: success of their parents. How did she feel about you

679
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 1: and your success?

680
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:43,239
Speaker 2: Well, she certainly wasn't impressed when I was young. When

681
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:48,240
Speaker 2: she was young, I'm sorry. I think no, she wasn't

682
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 2: impressed at all. As she's got older. I think first

683
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:56,759
Speaker 2: it became intrigue that people were interested in me. I

684
00:39:56,760 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 2: think she found that quite interesting herself. Why are they

685
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 2: talking to my dad? Why is this happening? And then

686
00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:07,759
Speaker 2: she started coming to gigs and so, you know, she

687
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 2: is a doctor, she's a psychiatrist. She's thirty seven or

688
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:15,000
Speaker 2: something like that, but she comes to gigs. She comes

689
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:19,759
Speaker 2: to festivals with her husband, and sometimes she'd bring the

690
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 2: little baby along as well. She likes festivals and I

691
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 2: think she really enjoys it now. But when she was

692
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 2: a teenager. First of all, I think she was in denial,

693
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:36,760
Speaker 2: and secondly, I think she was a bit embarrassed. Probably

694
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 2: her friends were all parents were all investment bankers and

695
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 2: diplomats or whatever they were. They weren't near rock and

696
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 2: roll singers in the parents group at her school.

697
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:53,240
Speaker 1: It's only me, okay, from my life, You're the only

698
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 1: person I've ever known named Blundstone. Yes, if you're in

699
00:40:56,960 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 1: England or are there other Blundstones or does she say

700
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:03,280
Speaker 1: I'm so and sold Blunstone said, oh is your father Colin?

701
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:07,279
Speaker 2: I think people do say that to her. But there

702
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:10,400
Speaker 2: is only one family, I believe, but most of them

703
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:12,399
Speaker 2: are in the north of the country. My father came

704
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:17,799
Speaker 2: from the north of the country. But if someone's called Blunstone,

705
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:22,840
Speaker 2: then as far as I know, we would be related. Yeah,

706
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:25,359
Speaker 2: but people do say that to her because it's an

707
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:26,200
Speaker 2: unusual name.

708
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:29,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So where exactly do you grow up?

709
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:33,240
Speaker 2: I grew up just north of London in a place

710
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:36,440
Speaker 2: called Hatfield, and I went to school in a place

711
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:38,800
Speaker 2: called Saint Albans, which is four or five miles away,

712
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,520
Speaker 2: and that's where all the zombies all went to school.

713
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 2: In Saint Albans and that's the connection.

714
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:47,800
Speaker 1: Okay, but you know people in America are not that savvy.

715
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:50,840
Speaker 1: From the center of London. How far was the town

716
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 1: that you grew up in.

717
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:56,359
Speaker 2: Probably about twenty five twenty eight miles quite close.

718
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 1: And could you take the train in if you wanted to?

719
00:41:58,680 --> 00:41:59,760
Speaker 2: Half an hour on the train.

720
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 1: And did people in your town did some of them

721
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 1: take the train to go to work?

722
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:06,440
Speaker 2: Oh? Absolutely, yeah, it was it was commutable.

723
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:10,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, And your parents did what for a living?

724
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 2: Well, my father really was. He was say, a gentleman's hairdresser.

725
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:20,280
Speaker 2: Some people might say Barbara, that was his trade. Really.

726
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 2: My mom when she was younger, she was a dancer,

727
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 2: but then later on, you know, she worked in offices

728
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:31,400
Speaker 2: and she was a mom. She didn't particularly have a career,

729
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 2: but she was a wonderful personality because she'd been on

730
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:36,200
Speaker 2: the stage, you know. I mean, she would love to

731
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:38,840
Speaker 2: sing at the drop of the hat and was very good.

732
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:45,719
Speaker 1: Okay, the war has just ended, we hear you know

733
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 1: the metaphor I always say, You know, ultimately in England

734
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:50,800
Speaker 1: went from black and white to color. It was different

735
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 1: in America. So it's nineteen forty five, you're not conscious

736
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:58,320
Speaker 1: but as you become conscious the end of the forties

737
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 1: and early fifties, especially with in retrospect, were there limits

738
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:07,720
Speaker 1: could you feel the hangover the war? Were there things

739
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:09,719
Speaker 1: you couldn't get? What was it like?

740
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:14,759
Speaker 2: Absolutely, it was very austere in the UK after the war.

741
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:17,719
Speaker 2: I've heard people say that it was tougher after the war.

742
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:20,080
Speaker 2: I mean I was a child, so I wasn't aware

743
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:22,720
Speaker 2: of this, but I've heard people say it was tougher

744
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:25,279
Speaker 2: after the war. And it was during the war and

745
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:29,520
Speaker 2: most things were Russian. So food was ration and you

746
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:33,440
Speaker 2: and you know it really if to see an orange,

747
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 2: you might see an orange at one orange at Christmas,

748
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 2: that would be it. Clothes were rationed, Petrol was rationing,

749
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:43,279
Speaker 2: so you know, you could only use so much pet

750
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:45,399
Speaker 2: petrol in a week. You had you had a ration

751
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 2: book and you could only use so much petrol. And

752
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:51,759
Speaker 2: I think butter was Russian. It was quite tough. And

753
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:54,319
Speaker 2: on top of that from people have told me, I

754
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 2: think it was nineteen forty eight, it was a very

755
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:59,240
Speaker 2: very bad winter and it's very hard to get hold

756
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,720
Speaker 2: of coal to heat your house, so it was tough

757
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:06,920
Speaker 2: in the late forties and fifties. And I think that's

758
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 2: part of the reasons why the sixties exploded in such

759
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 2: a way, because we were just coming out of that

760
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:18,720
Speaker 2: post war austerity in the late fifties and into the sixties,

761
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:22,040
Speaker 2: it was still a hangover. If you drove up to

762
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 2: London in the fifties, there were huge areas that where

763
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:29,480
Speaker 2: it had been bombed that were just there were no

764
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 2: houses there, and you knew why there were no houses

765
00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:35,200
Speaker 2: there because that lort Ha got bombed.

766
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:41,400
Speaker 1: Okay, you're an only child. Some only children, all the

767
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:44,439
Speaker 1: wholes dreams of the parents are invested. They say how

768
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 1: great they pushed the kid. Other family if they treat

769
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:50,360
Speaker 1: the kid more as an adult. What was your experience

770
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:50,960
Speaker 1: growing up?

771
00:44:51,800 --> 00:45:01,120
Speaker 2: Well, I was very supported and loved growing up. I

772
00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:07,160
Speaker 2: was so fortunate. I really loving parents who just wanted

773
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:11,640
Speaker 2: the best for me. Really, that's all. I don't think

774
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:15,160
Speaker 2: they were over ambitious because they were in a way.

775
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:18,800
Speaker 2: Not to talk down about them, they were wonderful people,

776
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:23,080
Speaker 2: but they were working class people and so they just

777
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:26,919
Speaker 2: wanted me, wanted me to be happy. Really, that was it.

778
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:31,760
Speaker 1: Okay, you're going to school, you know, in America, public

779
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:34,760
Speaker 1: school is one thing, and in the UK public school's

780
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:39,800
Speaker 1: private school. But it was a regular government school, right, yes,

781
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 1: And what was that like?

782
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:45,800
Speaker 2: It was fine. I went to a nice local school

783
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:50,640
Speaker 2: up till eleven and I could walk to school, and

784
00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:54,239
Speaker 2: they were quite interested in music. Not guitars or rock

785
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 2: and roll, but there was an interest in music. And

786
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:59,520
Speaker 2: I established actually even then that I had a little

787
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:01,719
Speaker 2: bit of a boy as a young boy. They got

788
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:06,200
Speaker 2: me to sing some solo pieces, but that kind of

789
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 2: faded away. I forgot that that wasn't going to lead

790
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:12,040
Speaker 2: to a career in a rock and roll band at

791
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:14,759
Speaker 2: eleven in those days, and in some areas in the

792
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 2: country they still do this. They have an exam it's

793
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:19,600
Speaker 2: called the eleven plus and if you pass that exam,

794
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 2: you go to a more academic school. And I went

795
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 2: to a more academic school. I went to Saint Albans

796
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:28,920
Speaker 2: Grammar School in St Albans. It was an all boys

797
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:33,759
Speaker 2: school and I got a shock because there were a

798
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:36,920
Speaker 2: lot of bright people there and I, you know, I

799
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:40,839
Speaker 2: certainly wasn't amongst them. I was very average. But it

800
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:44,600
Speaker 2: was a good school. And also I discovered a love

801
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:49,520
Speaker 2: for sport while I was there, and I probably did

802
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 2: too much sport. I should have been at home, helping

803
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:54,239
Speaker 2: out at home really, but you know, every night I

804
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:57,600
Speaker 2: would stay on and do one sport or another, and

805
00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:03,600
Speaker 2: I loved it. And then at about fifteen, the guy

806
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:06,480
Speaker 2: in front of me, we were it's a strict school,

807
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 2: and we were arranged enough better ordered by our surnames.

808
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:11,640
Speaker 2: No one ever called us by a Christian names. And

809
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:13,840
Speaker 2: the guy in front of me was a guy called Arnold,

810
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:20,040
Speaker 2: Paul Arnold and Colin blunts and sat behind him. And

811
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:23,359
Speaker 2: he turned around to me and he said, I've got

812
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:27,239
Speaker 2: a mate who's putting a band together. Yeah, you've got

813
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:30,759
Speaker 2: a guitar, haven't you? And I said, yeah, I have

814
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 2: got a guitar actually, And he said, do you want

815
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 2: to be in the band? And that basically was that's

816
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 2: my audition for the Zombies.

817
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:41,040
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back. You say you're a very average

818
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:46,640
Speaker 1: student when you're less than eleven. Are you someone who's

819
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:48,640
Speaker 1: more of a loner or are you someone who has

820
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 1: a lot of friends? What kind of kid are you? No?

821
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:55,160
Speaker 2: I think I had I had, I had friends. Yeah.

822
00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:58,360
Speaker 1: And then in your house, your mother was a dancer.

823
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 1: Did they play music in the house?

824
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:04,359
Speaker 2: Not an awful lot, No, But any excuse she would

825
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:09,240
Speaker 2: sing and dance. I don't remember, but she had five brothers.

826
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 2: I used to go a lot to my grandparents' house,

827
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:15,440
Speaker 2: which was about ten miles away, but like two or

828
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:19,359
Speaker 2: three nights a week. I don't quite understand how we

829
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:22,360
Speaker 2: got over there in those days. We didn't always have

830
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:24,000
Speaker 2: a car. It would have to be on the bus.

831
00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:26,799
Speaker 2: But we went there a lot. And my mother had

832
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:30,239
Speaker 2: five brothers and they all played instruments. Most of them

833
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:33,279
Speaker 2: played two or three instruments really well, sort of semi professional,

834
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:36,880
Speaker 2: And so I heard a lot of music in that house.

835
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:41,279
Speaker 2: At Christmases were wonderful. They would do a fanfare for

836
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:44,960
Speaker 2: the Christmas pudding to come through. It'd be two trombones

837
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:50,680
Speaker 2: and a trumpet. And then after the meal we'd have

838
00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:53,919
Speaker 2: a we had a dance band, so we we would

839
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 2: we would experience live music when these guys you know,

840
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:03,319
Speaker 2: chose to play it was. It was wonderful. But I

841
00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:07,560
Speaker 2: don't remember an awful lot of the radio. BBC Radio

842
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:10,759
Speaker 2: didn't play a lot of contemporary music. They would play

843
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:16,359
Speaker 2: like light classics or else it was talk music. It

844
00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:21,480
Speaker 2: wasn't till the till the Pirates came about and they

845
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:27,920
Speaker 2: were playing records and the beeB had to compete and

846
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:31,480
Speaker 2: so then they started playing records too. The BBC before that,

847
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:34,480
Speaker 2: they didn't play records for one reason or another, one

848
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:37,600
Speaker 2: being that the musicians' union was very strong and they

849
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:42,120
Speaker 2: didn't want records played. They wanted musicians to be employed

850
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:45,319
Speaker 2: to play live music. And it used to be called

851
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:48,759
Speaker 2: needle time. BBC only had so much needle time when

852
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:51,879
Speaker 2: they could play records. It's very old fashioned and very

853
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:56,839
Speaker 2: different to radio here. Now, we followed you very much

854
00:49:56,880 --> 00:50:00,279
Speaker 2: and it's it's similar over there to the radio set

855
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:00,680
Speaker 2: up here.

856
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:10,799
Speaker 1: Let's go back a step. You say you go to

857
00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:13,759
Speaker 1: I think it was Saint Albans, the second school, and

858
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:17,920
Speaker 1: you become very interested in sport. So what sports did

859
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:19,160
Speaker 1: you play and how good were you?

860
00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:26,840
Speaker 2: Well, my favorite sport was rugby, and for the first

861
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:30,520
Speaker 2: rehearsal when I turned up, Paul Arnold asked me to

862
00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:34,160
Speaker 2: go along to rehearsal on a Saturday morning. On the

863
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:38,440
Speaker 2: Wednesday afternoon, I broke my nose playing rugby quite badly

864
00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:42,120
Speaker 2: and my nose was nearly in my ear and they

865
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:44,319
Speaker 2: I had to go to hospital and they'd strapped me

866
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:47,200
Speaker 2: with white tape across the face and I had two

867
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:50,759
Speaker 2: black eyes. And I turned up for the first rehearsal

868
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:56,520
Speaker 2: and they were scared of me. What surprised time would

869
00:50:56,600 --> 00:51:00,359
Speaker 2: have been scared to. Rhodes told me that we were

870
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:03,600
Speaker 2: standing on this street corner. Paul Arnold is the only

871
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:06,040
Speaker 2: guy I know from my school. Rod had got some

872
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:09,920
Speaker 2: guys from another school, so the other people didn't know me.

873
00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:14,799
Speaker 2: And Rod was standing under his breath. God, don't say that,

874
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:24,160
Speaker 2: rough guy, And it was me. Yeah, but yes, I

875
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:26,880
Speaker 2: love to play rugby. I would have loved to have

876
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 2: been a good rugby player, but I wasn't really good enough.

877
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:33,400
Speaker 2: I was a sprinter, so I was very fast. You know,

878
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:37,680
Speaker 2: it seems silly to say this now, but I was

879
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:42,439
Speaker 2: a schoolboys sprint champion at school of the County, which

880
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:46,080
Speaker 2: would perhaps be like the state. And actually I had

881
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:48,960
Speaker 2: a national trial at basketball, believe it or not, because

882
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:52,080
Speaker 2: basketball is not a big sport in the UK, and

883
00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:54,600
Speaker 2: that's probably why I got a national trial because there

884
00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:57,680
Speaker 2: weren't many other people. There weren't many many other people

885
00:51:57,719 --> 00:52:00,680
Speaker 2: playing it, so they were the three sports that I play, Rugby,

886
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:02,960
Speaker 2: athletics and basketball.

887
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:08,160
Speaker 1: Okay, you talk about the BBC not playing records, but

888
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:11,880
Speaker 1: in the fifties rock and roll starts to happen. You

889
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:14,960
Speaker 1: have Rocket Ada, you have Rock around the Clock, you

890
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:18,920
Speaker 1: have Elvis, you have Little Richard. Is this on your radar?

891
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:22,319
Speaker 2: It is, and it's always intrigued me. Where did I

892
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:27,640
Speaker 2: hear it? I used to, at quite a young age,

893
00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:30,040
Speaker 2: hang out at this sort of cafe place that had

894
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:33,919
Speaker 2: a jukebox. That was one place I heard it. They

895
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:38,040
Speaker 2: occasionally played things on the BBC, but it's really not

896
00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:42,880
Speaker 2: very much, but I was aware of it. Elvis especially.

897
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:45,880
Speaker 2: I don't even think we had a record player at

898
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:49,719
Speaker 2: home when I was really younger. Later we did, but

899
00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:53,120
Speaker 2: I heard Elvis's early records. So the three for me

900
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:57,399
Speaker 2: that got me interested were Elvis, Little Richard, and Chuck

901
00:52:57,440 --> 00:53:01,360
Speaker 2: Berry and I I just thought they were one for

902
00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:04,160
Speaker 2: all Americans. And this is the thing I always say

903
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:08,120
Speaker 2: to American people is that British musicians always want to

904
00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:12,360
Speaker 2: come to America. It's the home of the blues, jazz,

905
00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:15,239
Speaker 2: rhythm and blues and rock and roll. This is where

906
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:19,359
Speaker 2: it all happened, and British musicians always want to come here,

907
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:24,720
Speaker 2: and nearly always they get interested in music through American musicians.

908
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:28,160
Speaker 2: Maybe not always, but mostly they do. And certainly my

909
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:29,160
Speaker 2: generation did.

910
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:33,040
Speaker 1: Okay, how did you end up with a guitar? Well?

911
00:53:33,080 --> 00:53:36,880
Speaker 2: I loved the kind of people we're talking about, and

912
00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:40,719
Speaker 2: then later on very much. Ricky Nelson was huge for me,

913
00:53:40,840 --> 00:53:42,040
Speaker 2: and Buddy Holly.

914
00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:45,920
Speaker 1: Did as an heiot show play. No, it didn't know,

915
00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:48,440
Speaker 1: so you didn't get Ricky playing at the end.

916
00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:54,000
Speaker 2: No. I saw occasional clips on the TV. It's it's

917
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:56,760
Speaker 2: a mystery to me how anybody ever heard these songs,

918
00:53:56,800 --> 00:54:00,359
Speaker 2: but we did because because we you know, we loved

919
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:02,520
Speaker 2: the music and you just five ways to do it.

920
00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:05,600
Speaker 2: I begged for a guitar, and it was a big

921
00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:10,400
Speaker 2: sacrifice for my parents to get me a guitar. I

922
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:15,200
Speaker 2: think it cost twelve pounds. It was a famous Atlantis

923
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:19,680
Speaker 2: and I think it was made in East Germany. And

924
00:54:19,719 --> 00:54:25,200
Speaker 2: it was quite a nice acoustic guitar and I could

925
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:28,480
Speaker 2: play a few chords on it, you know, I loved

926
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:31,799
Speaker 2: I think my father was a bit worried it was

927
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:35,319
Speaker 2: going to be a three day wonder, but it didn't

928
00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:37,839
Speaker 2: work out that way. I loved to play. I would

929
00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:38,960
Speaker 2: play for hours on end.

930
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:41,239
Speaker 1: Okay, how'd you learn?

931
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:45,200
Speaker 2: Mostly? I taught myself mostly? Yeah.

932
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:48,839
Speaker 1: Okay, So when Paul Arnold says, hey, these guys are

933
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:54,080
Speaker 1: forming a band. You just played your acoustic guitar at home. Yes,

934
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:57,359
Speaker 1: you didn't play out anywhere. It wasn't like you went

935
00:54:57,400 --> 00:54:59,719
Speaker 1: to friend's house and picked up the guitar and they said, oh,

936
00:54:59,719 --> 00:55:01,480
Speaker 1: you're the famous guy who plays the guitar.

937
00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:04,000
Speaker 2: No, not very much. I don't think I might have

938
00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:06,880
Speaker 2: done it a little bit, but no, I just played

939
00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:10,200
Speaker 2: at home and I joined the Zombies as a rhythm guitarist.

940
00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:14,160
Speaker 2: Rod Argent was going to be the lead singer, and

941
00:55:14,239 --> 00:55:18,840
Speaker 2: at that first rehearsal there was a we we played.

942
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:24,160
Speaker 2: We just played an instrumental called Malaguena. It's like a

943
00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:27,000
Speaker 2: classic song that people play. And because it was an

944
00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:29,160
Speaker 2: instrumental and Rob was going to be the lead singer,

945
00:55:29,160 --> 00:55:32,600
Speaker 2: of course he didn't actually do anything. But there was

946
00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:35,600
Speaker 2: a break in the middle of the first rehearsal. We

947
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:37,960
Speaker 2: had a coffee and there was an old, broken down

948
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:41,040
Speaker 2: piano in the corner, and he went over and he

949
00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:50,359
Speaker 2: played not Rocker by Bee Bumble and the Stingers, and

950
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:53,359
Speaker 2: he was just so much better than us. We were

951
00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:57,319
Speaker 2: really ordinary and I just I've only just met him,

952
00:55:57,600 --> 00:55:59,680
Speaker 2: so I wasn't too sure of what his name was,

953
00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:02,600
Speaker 2: but I went over. I thought this was quite bold. Actually,

954
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:04,560
Speaker 2: I went over to him and I said, you know,

955
00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:08,360
Speaker 2: whatever your name is, you should play keyboards in this band.

956
00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:12,120
Speaker 2: You're really good. And he said, no, no, we don't

957
00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:14,680
Speaker 2: want keyboards in this band. It's a rock and roll band.

958
00:56:14,680 --> 00:56:19,319
Speaker 2: That's three guitars. And he was adamant. And then at

959
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:21,840
Speaker 2: the end of the rehearsal, just as I was putting

960
00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:24,799
Speaker 2: my guitar away, I just started singing a little bit

961
00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:26,839
Speaker 2: to myself and it was I know, its a Ricky

962
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:30,319
Speaker 2: Narsen song and I think it was it's late, but

963
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:33,520
Speaker 2: I'm not absolutely sure. And he just turned around and

964
00:56:33,560 --> 00:56:37,399
Speaker 2: said he heard me singing, and he said, if you'll

965
00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:41,839
Speaker 2: be the lead singer, I'll play keyboards. And essentially that

966
00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:45,680
Speaker 2: was the Zombies. It was all so so much chance,

967
00:56:46,320 --> 00:56:48,759
Speaker 2: you know. I mean, you have conversations like that, you

968
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:51,680
Speaker 2: be the lead singer, and I'll bet you're not thinking

969
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:55,200
Speaker 2: that sixty years later we'll be touring the world and

970
00:56:55,360 --> 00:56:58,560
Speaker 2: having had hit records and being inducted in the Rock

971
00:56:58,600 --> 00:57:02,279
Speaker 2: and Roll Hall of Fame. I said, well, okay, I'll

972
00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:05,480
Speaker 2: give it a go, and that was it.

973
00:57:05,560 --> 00:57:09,160
Speaker 1: Really okay, So you had a whole scene in the

974
00:57:09,239 --> 00:57:13,600
Speaker 1: UK that didn't happen in America. The skiffle bands. Okay,

975
00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:17,120
Speaker 1: when you formed the band, I believe in nineteen sixty one,

976
00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:21,160
Speaker 1: was that a thing? I mean, like, after the Beatles

977
00:57:21,240 --> 00:57:25,640
Speaker 1: hit in America, everybody here formed the band. Okay, So

978
00:57:25,840 --> 00:57:29,680
Speaker 1: in sixty one were a lot of people starting bands

979
00:57:29,760 --> 00:57:31,800
Speaker 1: or were you more of the outliers.

980
00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:34,400
Speaker 2: No, there were a lot of people in bands, yeah,

981
00:57:34,440 --> 00:57:38,800
Speaker 2: but not skiffle right had come and gone. So it

982
00:57:38,560 --> 00:57:40,280
Speaker 2: was it was rock and roll. It would have been

983
00:57:41,080 --> 00:57:44,320
Speaker 2: you know, the American greats, and then in the UK

984
00:57:44,360 --> 00:57:47,920
Speaker 2: it would have been people like Cliff Richard perhaps and

985
00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:51,920
Speaker 2: Joe Brown and Marty Wilde and people like that. But

986
00:57:52,240 --> 00:57:55,919
Speaker 2: I think we were more looking towards America. In fact,

987
00:57:56,280 --> 00:57:59,800
Speaker 2: as time went by, we renamed the Zombies. Were called

988
00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:02,560
Speaker 2: as Zombies R and B for quite a long while

989
00:58:02,560 --> 00:58:06,160
Speaker 2: because we were trying to explore the R and B artists.

990
00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:09,120
Speaker 2: But then, of course we realized I'm skipping ahead a

991
00:58:09,160 --> 00:58:11,200
Speaker 2: bit here, but we realized we had two guys in

992
00:58:11,240 --> 00:58:15,040
Speaker 2: the band who could write, and that changed everything.

993
00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:19,680
Speaker 1: Okay, before you get there, yeah, you're playing an acoustic guitar.

994
00:58:20,520 --> 00:58:23,520
Speaker 2: I had a little pickup on him, which my dad

995
00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:26,960
Speaker 2: I think someone gave it to me. My dad managed

996
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:31,160
Speaker 2: to stick it onto the guitar. I mean it it

997
00:58:31,240 --> 00:58:33,680
Speaker 2: looked very cumbersome, but what do you do for an

998
00:58:33,680 --> 00:58:40,160
Speaker 2: e app Well, that first rehearsal, Rod's cousin Jim Rodford,

999
00:58:40,680 --> 00:58:43,280
Speaker 2: who was twenty years in the Kinks and then twenty

1000
00:58:43,400 --> 00:58:46,040
Speaker 2: years in the Zombies as well. Sadly he's passed away

1001
00:58:46,120 --> 00:58:50,880
Speaker 2: quite recently. But Rod's cousin, Jim Rodford, was in the

1002
00:58:50,920 --> 00:58:54,000
Speaker 2: big band in Saint Albans who were called the Blue Tones,

1003
00:58:54,360 --> 00:58:57,160
Speaker 2: and they were really good, and they had all the

1004
00:58:57,240 --> 00:59:00,600
Speaker 2: Fox equipment and a full drum kit and everything, and

1005
00:59:00,720 --> 00:59:04,800
Speaker 2: Jim managed to persuade them to let us borrow their

1006
00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:09,160
Speaker 2: gear on that first rehearsal. So we thought we sounded

1007
00:59:09,640 --> 00:59:15,080
Speaker 2: pretty wonderful through these ants and drums. Jim much later,

1008
00:59:15,720 --> 00:59:20,000
Speaker 2: you know, fifty years later, admitted that when he heard

1009
00:59:20,080 --> 00:59:23,600
Speaker 2: us play and I'm thinking we sound wonderful, Jim was

1010
00:59:23,640 --> 00:59:28,160
Speaker 2: listening and watching and he thought no chance, no chance.

1011
00:59:29,080 --> 00:59:32,200
Speaker 2: He'd waited fifty years and he'd only said it in

1012
00:59:32,200 --> 00:59:35,280
Speaker 2: a very light way. We just died laughing because we

1013
00:59:35,800 --> 00:59:38,840
Speaker 2: thought we were great. But he thought we were terrible.

1014
00:59:39,680 --> 00:59:41,840
Speaker 2: Then the next rehearsal we had of course, we didn't

1015
00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:47,160
Speaker 2: have all their equipment. We had one handmade, broken down

1016
00:59:47,160 --> 00:59:51,600
Speaker 2: old amplifier that everyone had to plug into, and a

1017
00:59:51,720 --> 00:59:56,200
Speaker 2: handmade speaker, and our drummer, Hugh Grundy, had two drumsticks

1018
00:59:56,200 --> 00:59:59,680
Speaker 2: and he played on that. They were his drums, and

1019
00:59:59,760 --> 01:00:02,720
Speaker 2: I we had a microphone that was like a shot put.

1020
01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:07,200
Speaker 2: It was really very heavy to hold, and that was

1021
01:00:07,240 --> 01:00:10,080
Speaker 2: a real wake up call. That was our second rehearse

1022
01:00:10,120 --> 01:00:14,120
Speaker 2: and you think, God, we're hopeless. We haven't got any gear,

1023
01:00:14,920 --> 01:00:16,960
Speaker 2: and we just It took us a year, you know,

1024
01:00:17,040 --> 01:00:21,000
Speaker 2: to save and buy bits and pieces before we played

1025
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:28,360
Speaker 2: our first little gig at a youth club and again

1026
01:00:28,640 --> 01:00:31,680
Speaker 2: I thought it was fantastic to actually play. And in

1027
01:00:31,720 --> 01:00:33,919
Speaker 2: the last song, they used to always try and put

1028
01:00:33,920 --> 01:00:37,240
Speaker 2: the lights down in the last song so they could

1029
01:00:37,280 --> 01:00:41,920
Speaker 2: do a close dance. And we were doing an instrumental

1030
01:00:41,960 --> 01:00:46,080
Speaker 2: called Nivram, which is a song from The Shadows, and

1031
01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:48,920
Speaker 2: there's a bass solo in the middle of the song

1032
01:00:49,360 --> 01:00:52,480
Speaker 2: and when they put the lights down, Paul Arnold at

1033
01:00:52,480 --> 01:00:54,880
Speaker 2: that time was playing bass and he got onto the

1034
01:00:54,920 --> 01:00:59,200
Speaker 2: wrong threat because the lights had come down and you

1035
01:00:59,280 --> 01:01:04,280
Speaker 2: play this whole based solo, a semitone sharp to what

1036
01:01:04,440 --> 01:01:07,840
Speaker 2: we were playing, and I think it sounded it sounded

1037
01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:13,080
Speaker 2: very modern, something Miles Davis might have tried.

1038
01:01:13,120 --> 01:01:17,720
Speaker 1: You know, it was okay in that year. How many

1039
01:01:17,760 --> 01:01:22,720
Speaker 1: times are you getting together and at what point do

1040
01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:24,480
Speaker 1: you guys say we're committed.

1041
01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:30,320
Speaker 2: I don't remember a discussion about being committed or not,

1042
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:36,240
Speaker 2: but most sundays we got together to rehearse. And it

1043
01:01:36,760 --> 01:01:39,000
Speaker 2: got a bit much for Paul Arnold. He wanted to

1044
01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:41,920
Speaker 2: be a doctor. He's very aware of having to keep

1045
01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:45,439
Speaker 2: up on his studies, and so he was the only

1046
01:01:45,520 --> 01:01:49,000
Speaker 2: guy who left. He's the only guy who escaped. And

1047
01:01:49,120 --> 01:01:50,320
Speaker 2: Chris White turned up.

1048
01:01:50,560 --> 01:01:52,360
Speaker 1: What happened to Paul Arnold in life?

1049
01:01:52,440 --> 01:01:55,840
Speaker 2: Became a doctor and he's in Edmonton and we've played

1050
01:01:55,920 --> 01:01:58,280
Speaker 2: up there quite a few times and he always comes

1051
01:01:58,560 --> 01:02:01,360
Speaker 2: and we always introduced him to the audience. I think

1052
01:02:01,360 --> 01:02:03,800
Speaker 2: he really enjoys it. Actually gets the spotlight on him

1053
01:02:03,800 --> 01:02:07,560
Speaker 2: and he really likes it. And Chris White came and

1054
01:02:07,600 --> 01:02:10,920
Speaker 2: took over. But it was very interesting. I'm not I

1055
01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:15,840
Speaker 2: don't really know where Chris White came from exactly. I

1056
01:02:15,920 --> 01:02:19,360
Speaker 2: don't know who approached him. He just arrived, and what

1057
01:02:19,480 --> 01:02:22,000
Speaker 2: intrigued me was usually bass playing. The Drama are very

1058
01:02:22,040 --> 01:02:25,439
Speaker 2: tight because they played together well. Chris had been coming

1059
01:02:25,440 --> 01:02:27,760
Speaker 2: in and playing bass for about five or six weeks,

1060
01:02:28,280 --> 01:02:32,280
Speaker 2: and Hugh Grundy, our drummer, came up to me and

1061
01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:36,200
Speaker 2: very quietly whispered in my ear. He said, who's this

1062
01:02:36,280 --> 01:02:39,640
Speaker 2: book who keeps coming in and playing base? I realized

1063
01:02:39,960 --> 01:02:42,200
Speaker 2: that he'd been coming in for five or six weeks

1064
01:02:42,200 --> 01:02:44,240
Speaker 2: to play bass, and Hew had never spoken to him,

1065
01:02:44,280 --> 01:02:48,160
Speaker 2: and he didn't know who he was. And I think

1066
01:02:48,200 --> 01:02:53,080
Speaker 2: there's something of the Zombies in that that things just

1067
01:02:53,200 --> 01:02:56,040
Speaker 2: used to happen and no one really knew. No one

1068
01:02:56,120 --> 01:02:59,280
Speaker 2: really knew why or how. I don't know where Chris

1069
01:02:59,320 --> 01:02:59,840
Speaker 2: came from.

1070
01:03:00,080 --> 01:03:02,360
Speaker 1: Okay, so playing in B and B. Believe me, I

1071
01:03:02,440 --> 01:03:05,320
Speaker 1: was never any good. There's always one person who says,

1072
01:03:06,160 --> 01:03:08,760
Speaker 1: we got to get a gig. They're like the business person.

1073
01:03:08,920 --> 01:03:11,560
Speaker 1: She happened. Usually this is a drummer. What happened in

1074
01:03:11,600 --> 01:03:12,240
Speaker 1: the Zombies.

1075
01:03:12,520 --> 01:03:15,160
Speaker 2: Well, I'm not so sure about We've got to get

1076
01:03:15,200 --> 01:03:18,520
Speaker 2: a gig? But musically it was always Rod. It was

1077
01:03:18,600 --> 01:03:21,560
Speaker 2: Rod's but Rod formed the band. It's Rod's band. He's

1078
01:03:21,600 --> 01:03:24,960
Speaker 2: the leader of the band. He was head and shoulders

1079
01:03:25,040 --> 01:03:28,720
Speaker 2: better than us musically, and he was the first one

1080
01:03:28,760 --> 01:03:32,240
Speaker 2: to start writing as well. So the whole musical direction

1081
01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:36,680
Speaker 2: came from Rod. But I think we all knew if

1082
01:03:36,680 --> 01:03:39,800
Speaker 2: we're going to do this, we have at some point

1083
01:03:39,920 --> 01:03:43,120
Speaker 2: we've got to we've got to try and perform. And

1084
01:03:43,240 --> 01:03:47,000
Speaker 2: I think we all tried to get gigs. Really, it

1085
01:03:47,040 --> 01:03:49,640
Speaker 2: wasn't all down to the drummer as he has been

1086
01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:52,080
Speaker 2: in your experience. I think we all tried to get gigs.

1087
01:03:53,160 --> 01:03:55,600
Speaker 2: And I remember I got them into some youth clubs

1088
01:03:55,600 --> 01:03:59,240
Speaker 2: around hat and then I got them into my rugby club.

1089
01:03:59,720 --> 01:04:01,720
Speaker 2: And this is when you're taking your life into your

1090
01:04:02,640 --> 01:04:07,000
Speaker 2: because these guys they're quite physical and they drink lots

1091
01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:13,000
Speaker 2: of beer and a bit crazy, you know, And I

1092
01:04:13,160 --> 01:04:16,960
Speaker 2: was very relieved. Apart from anything else, they really took

1093
01:04:17,040 --> 01:04:20,120
Speaker 2: to us. And the rugby club dancers used to be

1094
01:04:20,320 --> 01:04:23,840
Speaker 2: very poorly attended, but it really built up into something.

1095
01:04:23,880 --> 01:04:27,280
Speaker 2: That's when we started to build a local following at

1096
01:04:27,360 --> 01:04:30,080
Speaker 2: the rugby club I played for, and then we played

1097
01:04:30,080 --> 01:04:32,960
Speaker 2: at other rugby clubs as well, and it was really

1098
01:04:33,120 --> 01:04:36,840
Speaker 2: shortly after that we won a big rock and roll competition.

1099
01:04:37,560 --> 01:04:41,000
Speaker 1: Before you get there when you're rehearsing, what material are

1100
01:04:41,040 --> 01:04:41,600
Speaker 1: you playing?

1101
01:04:43,800 --> 01:04:47,800
Speaker 2: Well, until we got into the beat until the Beatles happened,

1102
01:04:48,720 --> 01:04:51,440
Speaker 2: we were trying to get into as much rhythm and

1103
01:04:51,440 --> 01:04:54,760
Speaker 2: blues and blues as we could, although we did play

1104
01:04:54,800 --> 01:04:59,080
Speaker 2: pop tunes as well. When we first started, we played

1105
01:04:59,080 --> 01:05:02,439
Speaker 2: a lot of instrumental but gradually they started to drop out,

1106
01:05:03,160 --> 01:05:06,560
Speaker 2: and I used to play guitar, you know, But they

1107
01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:11,440
Speaker 2: gradually dropped out, and then we mostly just played songs.

1108
01:05:11,760 --> 01:05:15,800
Speaker 2: I think they got I think they got a little

1109
01:05:15,800 --> 01:05:18,920
Speaker 2: bit frustrated because when they played instrumentals and I was

1110
01:05:18,960 --> 01:05:24,640
Speaker 2: gradually stopping playing guitar. It's really uncool this, but they

1111
01:05:24,680 --> 01:05:27,000
Speaker 2: would do instrumentals and I get off the stage and

1112
01:05:27,080 --> 01:05:33,920
Speaker 2: dance with a pretty girl. And I don't blame them.

1113
01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:37,440
Speaker 2: It's very unprofessional, you know. And then at the end

1114
01:05:37,520 --> 01:05:39,080
Speaker 2: of the song, I'd have to rush back up and

1115
01:05:39,200 --> 01:05:42,640
Speaker 2: start singing again. So more and more we were just

1116
01:05:42,680 --> 01:05:43,480
Speaker 2: playing songs.

1117
01:05:52,440 --> 01:05:57,160
Speaker 1: What happened first, the Battle of the Bands or the Beatles?

1118
01:05:59,800 --> 01:06:01,160
Speaker 2: The Beatles happened first.

1119
01:06:01,280 --> 01:06:06,520
Speaker 1: Okay, so tell us about the Beatles. Fabulous, I mean,

1120
01:06:06,600 --> 01:06:08,840
Speaker 1: how did you hear them?

1121
01:06:09,080 --> 01:06:11,320
Speaker 2: But I think by then the BBC were playing a

1122
01:06:11,320 --> 01:06:13,720
Speaker 2: few or maybe we were listening to the pirates stations.

1123
01:06:13,760 --> 01:06:15,919
Speaker 2: You know, they were on ships out in the sea,

1124
01:06:16,040 --> 01:06:18,680
Speaker 2: and so they weren't regulated by the government. So I

1125
01:06:18,680 --> 01:06:22,720
Speaker 2: think by then we could we could listen to the music,

1126
01:06:23,280 --> 01:06:28,200
Speaker 2: and they just took our breath away. They were just sensational,

1127
01:06:28,640 --> 01:06:32,720
Speaker 2: and they wrote their own songs. They changed everything, and

1128
01:06:32,800 --> 01:06:35,600
Speaker 2: so this is one of the problems we had. Later on,

1129
01:06:36,000 --> 01:06:39,400
Speaker 2: we'd started playing lots of Beatles songs. Well, if you

1130
01:06:39,440 --> 01:06:42,960
Speaker 2: have a hit record, you can't your live show can't

1131
01:06:43,000 --> 01:06:46,920
Speaker 2: be based on another band. So it created a bit

1132
01:06:46,960 --> 01:06:49,640
Speaker 2: of a problem for us. But I know it was

1133
01:06:49,640 --> 01:06:53,680
Speaker 2: the Beatles first because in the rock competition that we won,

1134
01:06:54,280 --> 01:06:57,000
Speaker 2: one of the songs we played was you Can't Do That,

1135
01:06:57,080 --> 01:07:00,640
Speaker 2: which was a B side for the Beatles, a really

1136
01:07:00,720 --> 01:07:03,440
Speaker 2: good song actually, and that was one of the songs

1137
01:07:03,480 --> 01:07:04,040
Speaker 2: that we played.

1138
01:07:04,880 --> 01:07:10,160
Speaker 1: Okay, what is the general tone. Everything happened in America

1139
01:07:10,200 --> 01:07:12,680
Speaker 1: a year and a half later. Really, the Beatles in

1140
01:07:13,080 --> 01:07:16,320
Speaker 1: UK is sixty two sixty three. Doesn't happen in America

1141
01:07:16,400 --> 01:07:21,360
Speaker 1: until sixty four. And then it's a tsunamiavacts Herman Hermon's Billy,

1142
01:07:22,280 --> 01:07:27,440
Speaker 1: you know Kramer in the Dakotas. You know, you're still

1143
01:07:28,040 --> 01:07:32,760
Speaker 1: trying to make it. Do all these bands start to

1144
01:07:32,840 --> 01:07:34,840
Speaker 1: have success and are you aware of them?

1145
01:07:35,560 --> 01:07:38,560
Speaker 2: Absolutely? Yeah, But I thought they were in a separate

1146
01:07:38,600 --> 01:07:42,240
Speaker 2: world to us, and thought never crossed my mind that,

1147
01:07:43,560 --> 01:07:46,320
Speaker 2: you know, we would be playing some of the same

1148
01:07:46,440 --> 01:07:49,560
Speaker 2: dates as them, perhaps not the Beatles, but the other ones.

1149
01:07:50,440 --> 01:07:53,680
Speaker 2: I thought, you know, we'd just keep playing locally. Really,

1150
01:07:57,160 --> 01:08:02,800
Speaker 2: Then we were entered into this rock competition and there

1151
01:08:02,840 --> 01:08:05,160
Speaker 2: were one hundred bands, but there were ten bands a

1152
01:08:05,280 --> 01:08:07,520
Speaker 2: night for ten weeks, so I know there are one

1153
01:08:07,600 --> 01:08:11,840
Speaker 2: hundred bands, and we won our our heat. You know,

1154
01:08:11,960 --> 01:08:17,040
Speaker 2: it's really surprised, and this is not false modesty. I

1155
01:08:17,080 --> 01:08:20,280
Speaker 2: thought that was fantastic, you know. And then we got

1156
01:08:20,320 --> 01:08:24,840
Speaker 2: into the final. I believe it. We won it out

1157
01:08:24,840 --> 01:08:28,320
Speaker 2: of all those bands. And one way or another, and

1158
01:08:28,439 --> 01:08:31,200
Speaker 2: all the guys in the band remember this differently, but

1159
01:08:31,360 --> 01:08:34,479
Speaker 2: one way or another, it led to a contract with

1160
01:08:34,560 --> 01:08:36,840
Speaker 2: Decca Records. From memory, I think it was only for

1161
01:08:36,840 --> 01:08:39,800
Speaker 2: a single. It wasn't for an album, but we got

1162
01:08:40,120 --> 01:08:42,400
Speaker 2: the chance to record in Decca studios.

1163
01:08:42,760 --> 01:08:45,960
Speaker 1: Okay, at what point in this story do you stop

1164
01:08:46,040 --> 01:08:46,839
Speaker 1: going to school.

1165
01:08:48,160 --> 01:08:52,080
Speaker 2: I had just stopped. So Chris White was the oldest

1166
01:08:52,439 --> 01:08:57,559
Speaker 2: he'd gone to art school and he just finished three

1167
01:08:57,640 --> 01:09:02,439
Speaker 2: years at art school. And Hugh Grandy were roughly the

1168
01:09:02,479 --> 01:09:04,760
Speaker 2: same as Rod and I are only ten days apart,

1169
01:09:05,120 --> 01:09:08,640
Speaker 2: and we had all worked for a few months. I

1170
01:09:08,680 --> 01:09:12,680
Speaker 2: think he was in a bank, Rod was working in

1171
01:09:12,720 --> 01:09:17,160
Speaker 2: a the offices of a factory, and I was working

1172
01:09:17,160 --> 01:09:20,280
Speaker 2: in an office as well. None of us had embarked

1173
01:09:20,320 --> 01:09:25,759
Speaker 2: on huge career projects, you know, So when things started

1174
01:09:25,800 --> 01:09:28,519
Speaker 2: to happen with the band, it wasn't a hard decision,

1175
01:09:29,200 --> 01:09:32,160
Speaker 2: you know, that we were going to stop doing those jobs.

1176
01:09:32,320 --> 01:09:33,920
Speaker 1: But everybody finished school.

1177
01:09:34,200 --> 01:09:37,519
Speaker 2: Everybody had finished school. Oh no, I'm sorry, Paul Arnold.

1178
01:09:38,040 --> 01:09:41,280
Speaker 2: Paul Atkinson was a year younger than us, so he

1179
01:09:41,360 --> 01:09:45,640
Speaker 2: went straight from school into the band, playing professionally.

1180
01:09:45,760 --> 01:09:50,400
Speaker 1: Okay, from the time you first started playing out, which

1181
01:09:50,479 --> 01:09:53,800
Speaker 1: was a year after you first started playing, how long

1182
01:09:53,920 --> 01:09:57,240
Speaker 1: from then until the one hundred BM competition?

1183
01:09:58,160 --> 01:10:02,759
Speaker 2: From when we first started playing, well, we first started

1184
01:10:02,760 --> 01:10:08,519
Speaker 2: playing in sixty one and the band competition was in

1185
01:10:08,640 --> 01:10:11,200
Speaker 2: sixty four. It was in the spring of sixty four.

1186
01:10:11,320 --> 01:10:14,000
Speaker 1: Okay, so the first year you just would shedding in

1187
01:10:14,040 --> 01:10:16,559
Speaker 1: those two intervening years, what are you doing?

1188
01:10:17,400 --> 01:10:23,080
Speaker 2: We're playing anywhere? That would have us anywhere. I remember

1189
01:10:23,120 --> 01:10:26,200
Speaker 2: playing at what they would call working men's clubs, but

1190
01:10:26,439 --> 01:10:30,479
Speaker 2: you know, probably older men would go there and drink

1191
01:10:30,520 --> 01:10:33,479
Speaker 2: beer and talk about the war, probably, and they and

1192
01:10:33,520 --> 01:10:36,080
Speaker 2: we would play, and they wouldn't want us to play, really,

1193
01:10:36,120 --> 01:10:42,519
Speaker 2: but we would play anyway. We'd play at schools, we

1194
01:10:42,560 --> 01:10:45,479
Speaker 2: would just play anywhere, at the youth clubs, anywhere that

1195
01:10:45,520 --> 01:10:46,240
Speaker 2: they would have us.

1196
01:10:46,600 --> 01:10:48,080
Speaker 1: And were you making any money?

1197
01:10:48,960 --> 01:10:52,679
Speaker 2: It wasn't a money making thing. I think from memory,

1198
01:10:52,760 --> 01:10:56,000
Speaker 2: I think we would charge six pounds a night. It's

1199
01:10:56,040 --> 01:10:59,360
Speaker 2: a precise figure. I know that's what we charged, So

1200
01:10:59,439 --> 01:11:03,000
Speaker 2: that would be seven or eight dollars. But the six

1201
01:11:03,040 --> 01:11:05,960
Speaker 2: pounds we would use one pound for expenses for everyone

1202
01:11:06,000 --> 01:11:10,520
Speaker 2: getting there, and the five pounds we would reinvest in equipment,

1203
01:11:11,160 --> 01:11:14,160
Speaker 2: because you know, we still had pretty awful equipment.

1204
01:11:14,600 --> 01:11:17,720
Speaker 1: So by time you go to the one hundred band competition,

1205
01:11:18,479 --> 01:11:20,439
Speaker 1: what equipment do you have and how good is it?

1206
01:11:21,479 --> 01:11:27,320
Speaker 2: That's an interesting point. We had the equipment that we

1207
01:11:27,360 --> 01:11:32,120
Speaker 2: recorded She's not there on and some of it was homemade.

1208
01:11:32,280 --> 01:11:35,920
Speaker 2: But a big thing for us was Rod discovered a

1209
01:11:36,000 --> 01:11:41,080
Speaker 2: keyboard player called a honer pianette, and up until then

1210
01:11:41,200 --> 01:11:43,439
Speaker 2: he just had to use whatever piano was there, and

1211
01:11:43,439 --> 01:11:45,720
Speaker 2: we put a microphone in the piano and we'd have

1212
01:11:45,760 --> 01:11:47,960
Speaker 2: to tune to the piano because often they're tuned down

1213
01:11:48,520 --> 01:11:50,960
Speaker 2: and you could never really hear him properly. And I

1214
01:11:51,040 --> 01:11:53,360
Speaker 2: used to gauge how well the band had gone by

1215
01:11:53,760 --> 01:11:56,679
Speaker 2: how much blood was coming out of his thumb, because

1216
01:11:56,720 --> 01:12:00,599
Speaker 2: he used to do these Jerry Lee Lewis blisses and

1217
01:12:00,640 --> 01:12:03,320
Speaker 2: if it was going well, he'd really dig in and

1218
01:12:03,400 --> 01:12:06,760
Speaker 2: his thumb, you just blood would be dripping out of it.

1219
01:12:06,840 --> 01:12:10,639
Speaker 2: And I think that gig went really well tonight. Look

1220
01:12:10,640 --> 01:12:15,160
Speaker 2: at Rod's thumb, And that's how we had to do

1221
01:12:15,200 --> 01:12:18,240
Speaker 2: it until he got this Honer pianette, and that's a

1222
01:12:18,240 --> 01:12:21,280
Speaker 2: whole different ball game. We could hear him properly. The

1223
01:12:21,400 --> 01:12:24,400
Speaker 2: unfortunate thing was it had a strange system where it

1224
01:12:24,439 --> 01:12:27,000
Speaker 2: had arms that used to go down with little stickers

1225
01:12:27,040 --> 01:12:29,120
Speaker 2: on the end of it, and they'd pull off and

1226
01:12:29,160 --> 01:12:32,400
Speaker 2: that would pull the note. But we would play, especially

1227
01:12:32,439 --> 01:12:34,759
Speaker 2: at these rugby clubs, it would get very hot and sweaty,

1228
01:12:35,200 --> 01:12:40,200
Speaker 2: and these stickers wouldn't work properly, and thinking back, I

1229
01:12:40,200 --> 01:12:42,439
Speaker 2: don't know how people would put up with this, but

1230
01:12:42,560 --> 01:12:45,120
Speaker 2: so that wouldn't work, so Rob would just say, oh,

1231
01:12:45,200 --> 01:12:47,200
Speaker 2: we just have to stop for a bit now, and

1232
01:12:47,240 --> 01:12:50,160
Speaker 2: he would get his hair dryer out and take up

1233
01:12:50,200 --> 01:12:56,000
Speaker 2: the top of the p and dry the stickers. In

1234
01:12:56,240 --> 01:13:00,720
Speaker 2: the honer, we'd just I don't know what they did.

1235
01:13:00,880 --> 01:13:04,439
Speaker 2: If it's a rugby club, they'd probably be drinking and

1236
01:13:04,439 --> 01:13:08,680
Speaker 2: then okay, it's drying out, we start up again. So

1237
01:13:08,720 --> 01:13:11,960
Speaker 2: it had its disadvantages to Honah, because if it was

1238
01:13:12,320 --> 01:13:15,519
Speaker 2: really hot, it would stop playing.

1239
01:13:16,400 --> 01:13:20,519
Speaker 1: But okay, prior to the one hundred billion gig, how

1240
01:13:20,560 --> 01:13:21,559
Speaker 1: often are you playing?

1241
01:13:23,680 --> 01:13:26,479
Speaker 2: I think we play most weeks, and sometimes it would

1242
01:13:26,479 --> 01:13:31,840
Speaker 2: be Friday and Saturday, but sometimes it might only be once.

1243
01:13:32,120 --> 01:13:33,960
Speaker 1: And did you rehearse it all or just live?

1244
01:13:35,600 --> 01:13:38,960
Speaker 2: We would rehearse on a Sunday and play on either

1245
01:13:38,960 --> 01:13:41,240
Speaker 2: a Friday or a Saturday.

1246
01:13:41,439 --> 01:13:45,320
Speaker 1: Okay, you win the competition. What happens next?

1247
01:13:47,520 --> 01:13:52,720
Speaker 2: We all remember it differently, but eventually we were introduced

1248
01:13:52,720 --> 01:13:53,800
Speaker 2: to this guy Ken Jones.

1249
01:13:54,000 --> 01:13:56,080
Speaker 1: How long after the competition.

1250
01:13:55,720 --> 01:13:58,320
Speaker 2: It must have just been weeks because she's not there.

1251
01:13:58,439 --> 01:14:04,240
Speaker 2: Came out July the twenty fourth, nineteen sixty four. My

1252
01:14:04,320 --> 01:14:08,360
Speaker 2: birthday is June the twenty fourth. Please send big presents

1253
01:14:08,360 --> 01:14:12,280
Speaker 2: because it's coming up, and I know the record came

1254
01:14:12,360 --> 01:14:15,400
Speaker 2: up month after my birthday, so it must have all

1255
01:14:15,439 --> 01:14:21,240
Speaker 2: happened really quickly, and it was a hit quite quickly.

1256
01:14:21,240 --> 01:14:24,840
Speaker 1: Wait, a little bit slower. So you win the competition.

1257
01:14:25,080 --> 01:14:27,720
Speaker 1: In the part of the competition is you get a

1258
01:14:27,840 --> 01:14:32,679
Speaker 1: single deal with Decca, which Ken Jones is now voisted

1259
01:14:32,800 --> 01:14:34,920
Speaker 1: on you. Do you meet Ken Jones because of that

1260
01:14:35,080 --> 01:14:36,000
Speaker 1: contrag deal?

1261
01:14:37,320 --> 01:14:40,800
Speaker 2: No, he was a friend of Chris White's uncle. This

1262
01:14:40,880 --> 01:14:44,280
Speaker 2: is a bit bizarre connection. You know. I didn't know

1263
01:14:44,400 --> 01:14:47,240
Speaker 2: Chris White's uncle. I didn't know Ryan Jones. But he

1264
01:14:47,320 --> 01:14:49,719
Speaker 2: sat down and read through all these contracts and he said,

1265
01:14:49,760 --> 01:14:51,920
Speaker 2: but we can do better than this for you, and

1266
01:14:52,560 --> 01:14:54,320
Speaker 2: we went with him. He got us to deal with

1267
01:14:54,360 --> 01:14:58,320
Speaker 2: Decca and it was decided we recorded Decca Studios. And

1268
01:14:58,320 --> 01:15:01,080
Speaker 2: this is how crazy things are. It would seem to

1269
01:15:01,080 --> 01:15:03,920
Speaker 2: be the cool thing to record. Often they would record

1270
01:15:03,960 --> 01:15:06,559
Speaker 2: through the night, but we'd started at seven o'clock, so

1271
01:15:06,600 --> 01:15:09,479
Speaker 2: we're going to record at least through the evening, if

1272
01:15:09,520 --> 01:15:15,320
Speaker 2: not the night. And we were given a very successful

1273
01:15:15,640 --> 01:15:19,840
Speaker 2: recording engineer. He had a great track record, but because

1274
01:15:19,880 --> 01:15:22,920
Speaker 2: we started at seven at night, he'd been I know

1275
01:15:23,040 --> 01:15:28,640
Speaker 2: this sounds bizarre, but he'd been at a wedding all day. Unfortunately,

1276
01:15:28,720 --> 01:15:32,719
Speaker 2: he was blind drunk when we turned up, but more

1277
01:15:32,760 --> 01:15:36,920
Speaker 2: than that, he was really aggressive as well. And we

1278
01:15:37,040 --> 01:15:39,240
Speaker 2: go into the studio at seven o'clock. This guy can

1279
01:15:39,240 --> 01:15:43,280
Speaker 2: hardly stand and he's shouting and screaming and coming through

1280
01:15:43,320 --> 01:15:48,479
Speaker 2: the headphones really really loud, the language terrible, and I'm thinking,

1281
01:15:48,520 --> 01:15:52,240
Speaker 2: after about twenty minutes of this, taking into account I've

1282
01:15:52,240 --> 01:15:55,280
Speaker 2: been in the music business for sixty years. After twenty minutes,

1283
01:15:55,320 --> 01:15:58,680
Speaker 2: I thought, this isn't for me. This is not for me.

1284
01:15:59,280 --> 01:16:03,240
Speaker 2: But then we had a luck. He passed out. We

1285
01:16:03,280 --> 01:16:06,360
Speaker 2: had to carry him out of the studio two flights

1286
01:16:06,360 --> 01:16:10,599
Speaker 2: of stairs up into a black London taxi and actually

1287
01:16:10,640 --> 01:16:13,599
Speaker 2: I never saw him again, and his assistant took over,

1288
01:16:13,760 --> 01:16:18,639
Speaker 2: and his assistant was Gus Dudgeon. Really, isn't that bizarre. Yes,

1289
01:16:18,720 --> 01:16:22,400
Speaker 2: that's Gus Dudgeon's first session ever. He never forgot that,

1290
01:16:23,160 --> 01:16:25,920
Speaker 2: and it was our first session ever. I never forgot

1291
01:16:26,000 --> 01:16:29,040
Speaker 2: it either. And in that first session we recorded four

1292
01:16:29,120 --> 01:16:33,320
Speaker 2: or five tracks, four maybe, and one of them is

1293
01:16:33,400 --> 01:16:33,920
Speaker 2: She's not there.

1294
01:16:34,000 --> 01:16:36,640
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go a little bit slower. I want to understand.

1295
01:16:37,439 --> 01:16:43,080
Speaker 1: You won the competition, and with that came the ability

1296
01:16:43,120 --> 01:16:45,160
Speaker 1: to record. What was the prize exactly?

1297
01:16:45,560 --> 01:16:47,960
Speaker 2: Well, this is we all disagree on this. If you

1298
01:16:48,160 --> 01:16:51,120
Speaker 2: if Rod was here, he would tell you pass. The

1299
01:16:51,200 --> 01:16:55,439
Speaker 2: prize was a deal with Decca, and I'd probably say okay,

1300
01:16:55,760 --> 01:16:59,280
Speaker 2: because I don't want to argue it's not true. It's

1301
01:16:59,320 --> 01:17:02,960
Speaker 2: not true. We won two hundred and fifty pounds. But

1302
01:17:03,240 --> 01:17:07,360
Speaker 2: the interest in having won the competition led us to

1303
01:17:07,479 --> 01:17:10,360
Speaker 2: talking to people. It was sponsored by a big newspaper

1304
01:17:10,640 --> 01:17:16,600
Speaker 2: and it created an interest. We were introduced to three managers.

1305
01:17:16,680 --> 01:17:20,160
Speaker 2: I remember apart from Ken Jones. This is the first

1306
01:17:20,160 --> 01:17:23,880
Speaker 2: time manager. One was definitely a crook and he wanted

1307
01:17:23,920 --> 01:17:27,800
Speaker 2: to give us drinks and we were so scared of him.

1308
01:17:27,800 --> 01:17:30,360
Speaker 2: We wouldn't have a drink. We would hardly sit down,

1309
01:17:30,400 --> 01:17:33,960
Speaker 2: and that wasn't going to happen very flash. The second

1310
01:17:34,000 --> 01:17:38,799
Speaker 2: guy greeted us at his flat door in a silk

1311
01:17:39,080 --> 01:17:42,479
Speaker 2: dressing gown, and I thought, I don't think this is

1312
01:17:42,560 --> 01:17:46,160
Speaker 2: really for us. And he floated around and mentioned a

1313
01:17:46,200 --> 01:17:48,640
Speaker 2: few things, but then he came to the door to

1314
01:17:48,680 --> 01:17:51,120
Speaker 2: see us off, and he locked himself out of his

1315
01:17:51,240 --> 01:17:54,800
Speaker 2: flat in his silk dressing gown. I thought, if he

1316
01:17:54,920 --> 01:17:57,880
Speaker 2: can't get that together, he's not going to manage this band.

1317
01:17:58,240 --> 01:17:59,840
Speaker 2: We had to go around to the back of this

1318
01:18:00,080 --> 01:18:01,919
Speaker 2: lack of block of flats and they had a system

1319
01:18:02,479 --> 01:18:06,680
Speaker 2: on hoists for getting dustbins up to the flats and

1320
01:18:06,760 --> 01:18:08,760
Speaker 2: down like that. I mean, he has it's quite an

1321
01:18:08,800 --> 01:18:12,320
Speaker 2: older gentleman. And to get this older gentleman into this

1322
01:18:12,400 --> 01:18:15,920
Speaker 2: kind of open box. It had sides on it, but

1323
01:18:15,920 --> 01:18:17,600
Speaker 2: it didn't have a back in the front, and he

1324
01:18:17,720 --> 01:18:20,040
Speaker 2: had to crouch down in this thing where the dustbin

1325
01:18:20,120 --> 01:18:23,080
Speaker 2: would go, and we had to hoist him up to

1326
01:18:23,160 --> 01:18:25,200
Speaker 2: his flat, which is on the first and the second one.

1327
01:18:25,240 --> 01:18:29,679
Speaker 2: Bloody dangerous, I think first or second one. I thought, firstly,

1328
01:18:29,800 --> 01:18:32,719
Speaker 2: please don't let me look up and see what's happening

1329
01:18:32,800 --> 01:18:35,559
Speaker 2: under the silk dressing gown. So I'm definitely looking at

1330
01:18:35,560 --> 01:18:38,719
Speaker 2: the floor while I'm pulling on this rope. And secondly,

1331
01:18:38,800 --> 01:18:41,840
Speaker 2: please don't let him manage the band because he can't

1332
01:18:41,880 --> 01:18:45,479
Speaker 2: even sort out his door key, let alone manager band.

1333
01:18:45,520 --> 01:18:49,200
Speaker 2: So that that went, and then yeah, we got a manager.

1334
01:18:49,880 --> 01:18:58,599
Speaker 1: Okay. In the movie it says that Ken Jones says, well,

1335
01:18:58,680 --> 01:19:01,120
Speaker 1: you know, if you want to write some original material,

1336
01:19:01,240 --> 01:19:03,920
Speaker 1: and it says Rod goes off and write, She's not there.

1337
01:19:04,320 --> 01:19:05,360
Speaker 1: What really happened.

1338
01:19:05,560 --> 01:19:09,280
Speaker 2: It's true. He was giving us a pep talk two

1339
01:19:09,320 --> 01:19:12,400
Speaker 2: weeks before the session, and this is just a part

1340
01:19:12,840 --> 01:19:17,479
Speaker 2: of the pep talk. I can't remember what you should rehearse, guys,

1341
01:19:17,520 --> 01:19:19,400
Speaker 2: this is really important, you know, and you get one

1342
01:19:19,479 --> 01:19:22,200
Speaker 2: by the Apple. I can't remember what he said, but

1343
01:19:22,320 --> 01:19:24,760
Speaker 2: in the middle of it he said, you know, you

1344
01:19:24,800 --> 01:19:27,240
Speaker 2: could always write something for the session, and then went

1345
01:19:27,280 --> 01:19:30,840
Speaker 2: on and spoke about other things. It. You know, I

1346
01:19:30,880 --> 01:19:34,960
Speaker 2: couldn't think in terms of a band writing their own songs.

1347
01:19:35,520 --> 01:19:37,960
Speaker 2: I should have, really, because the Beatles had already started

1348
01:19:38,000 --> 01:19:41,559
Speaker 2: doing that. But Rod and Chris went off and wrote

1349
01:19:41,560 --> 01:19:45,000
Speaker 2: two songs in the next two or three days. Rod

1350
01:19:45,000 --> 01:19:46,960
Speaker 2: wrote She's Not There and Chris wrote the B side,

1351
01:19:47,000 --> 01:19:49,599
Speaker 2: which is a good song too, you Make Me Feel Good.

1352
01:19:50,000 --> 01:19:52,360
Speaker 2: And that was it.

1353
01:19:52,479 --> 01:19:55,360
Speaker 1: Okay, before you went into the studio to cut them,

1354
01:19:55,840 --> 01:19:56,920
Speaker 1: did you rehearse them?

1355
01:19:57,000 --> 01:20:00,720
Speaker 2: We did. We rehearsed them a lot, and I think

1356
01:20:00,760 --> 01:20:04,120
Speaker 2: we all thought that they were special songs. Sometimes I

1357
01:20:04,160 --> 01:20:06,479
Speaker 2: say to myself, but I knew She's Not There was

1358
01:20:06,520 --> 01:20:08,800
Speaker 2: really special. But I'm going to be really honest with you.

1359
01:20:09,880 --> 01:20:13,680
Speaker 2: We were in two minds whether She's Not There or

1360
01:20:13,680 --> 01:20:15,439
Speaker 2: the B side You Make Me Feel Good was the

1361
01:20:15,439 --> 01:20:19,360
Speaker 2: better song when we were recording it, so it was

1362
01:20:19,400 --> 01:20:23,160
Speaker 2: only afterwards that She's not there was chosen. It's funny,

1363
01:20:23,200 --> 01:20:26,920
Speaker 2: isn't I mean? Now, of course it's a fantastic song,

1364
01:20:27,000 --> 01:20:27,200
Speaker 2: you know.

1365
01:20:27,320 --> 01:20:29,920
Speaker 1: Okay, you record four songs the first night.

1366
01:20:30,040 --> 01:20:34,439
Speaker 2: Then what happened, Well, the A side was chosen and

1367
01:20:34,479 --> 01:20:37,200
Speaker 2: it came out very quickly. Things always moved very quickly

1368
01:20:37,320 --> 01:20:39,760
Speaker 2: back in the sun. How quickly, well, I think it was,

1369
01:20:39,960 --> 01:20:43,320
Speaker 2: you know, four or five weeks through or four weeks

1370
01:20:43,760 --> 01:20:44,360
Speaker 2: something like that.

1371
01:20:44,439 --> 01:20:49,240
Speaker 1: Okay, the record is done. Let's you know, it's totally different.

1372
01:20:49,240 --> 01:20:51,960
Speaker 1: I don't know. You're recording the one track back, then

1373
01:20:52,040 --> 01:20:52,840
Speaker 1: recording mono.

1374
01:20:53,240 --> 01:20:55,040
Speaker 2: We're recording fast four track.

1375
01:20:55,240 --> 01:21:00,360
Speaker 1: Okay, so it's four track, you know, normally forget you're

1376
01:21:00,360 --> 01:21:01,559
Speaker 1: all playing at the same time.

1377
01:21:02,080 --> 01:21:06,680
Speaker 2: No, the band played, and then we did the vocals

1378
01:21:07,200 --> 01:21:09,920
Speaker 2: they did back in vocal Rodin christed, but we're on

1379
01:21:09,920 --> 01:21:12,960
Speaker 2: one track. Roden Christ did back in vocals, run one

1380
01:21:13,040 --> 01:21:15,720
Speaker 2: mic and I'm here in the same room at the

1381
01:21:15,720 --> 01:21:18,160
Speaker 2: same time singing the lead vocal. And of course it's

1382
01:21:18,200 --> 01:21:18,759
Speaker 2: all one.

1383
01:21:18,640 --> 01:21:26,960
Speaker 1: Take, okay, and the instrumental part. Those were on how

1384
01:21:26,960 --> 01:21:29,120
Speaker 1: many tracks and how many times did it take to

1385
01:21:29,120 --> 01:21:29,479
Speaker 1: get that?

1386
01:21:30,080 --> 01:21:33,080
Speaker 2: Oh, it's really quick. I mean, yeah, they might have

1387
01:21:33,160 --> 01:21:35,880
Speaker 2: done four or five takes, but that would that would

1388
01:21:35,880 --> 01:21:38,000
Speaker 2: have been it. I think based in drums is on

1389
01:21:38,000 --> 01:21:45,200
Speaker 2: one guitar and keyboards was on another track, and then

1390
01:21:46,080 --> 01:21:50,439
Speaker 2: lead vocal and backing vocals were on separate tracks. It

1391
01:21:50,520 --> 01:21:51,599
Speaker 2: was something like that.

1392
01:21:52,280 --> 01:21:57,080
Speaker 1: Okay. So I mean, now there's so much equipment, but

1393
01:21:57,360 --> 01:22:01,880
Speaker 1: you record, then you have to mix. In the modern world,

1394
01:22:01,880 --> 01:22:04,160
Speaker 1: there's been this way for decades to this point. You

1395
01:22:04,240 --> 01:22:07,200
Speaker 1: might add compression, you might add weaverb you might take

1396
01:22:07,200 --> 01:22:10,839
Speaker 1: a whole day to do one song. Okay, so everybody

1397
01:22:10,920 --> 01:22:13,800
Speaker 1: touched the stuff. Do you remember what it took and

1398
01:22:13,920 --> 01:22:16,160
Speaker 1: when it was that it was mixed down to the single.

1399
01:22:16,400 --> 01:22:19,080
Speaker 2: Well, this is a bone of contention with us. Ken

1400
01:22:19,160 --> 01:22:23,519
Speaker 2: Jones was very strict with us and he would never

1401
01:22:23,600 --> 01:22:27,400
Speaker 2: let us go to the mixes and so that was

1402
01:22:27,840 --> 01:22:32,439
Speaker 2: all done. You know, we weren't there, We weren't involved

1403
01:22:32,439 --> 01:22:36,400
Speaker 2: in the mixes at all. I know, for instance, that

1404
01:22:36,560 --> 01:22:39,040
Speaker 2: he put a lot of compression on She's not there

1405
01:22:39,080 --> 01:22:42,080
Speaker 2: because people are always talking about the breaths, you know, right,

1406
01:22:42,720 --> 01:22:44,479
Speaker 2: I can't remember where it comes down. And told me

1407
01:22:44,520 --> 01:22:47,960
Speaker 2: about her the way she liked that's the thing. And

1408
01:22:49,000 --> 01:22:51,840
Speaker 2: I mean some of that's real, but some of it

1409
01:22:51,479 --> 01:22:57,000
Speaker 2: is helped by the compression that's on the track. But

1410
01:22:57,120 --> 01:23:00,519
Speaker 2: I think overall, and she's not there, sounds great. I think.

1411
01:23:02,200 --> 01:23:05,599
Speaker 1: That's the whole thing. Yeah, it sounds not rough at all.

1412
01:23:05,680 --> 01:23:07,639
Speaker 1: It sounds very modern to this day.

1413
01:23:07,920 --> 01:23:10,759
Speaker 2: I agree with you. I agree with you. But after

1414
01:23:10,840 --> 01:23:14,599
Speaker 2: that session, I think we always struggled as a band

1415
01:23:14,920 --> 01:23:18,640
Speaker 2: accepting the mixes, and there were some quite fierce arguments

1416
01:23:19,479 --> 01:23:22,360
Speaker 2: about why we weren't allowed to go into the mixes.

1417
01:23:22,840 --> 01:23:26,280
Speaker 2: But that first session and summertime also, I think is

1418
01:23:26,520 --> 01:23:30,479
Speaker 2: a lovely track, and you made Me feel good. And

1419
01:23:31,200 --> 01:23:36,080
Speaker 2: there was another real punky song that Rod wrote, It's

1420
01:23:36,120 --> 01:23:40,439
Speaker 2: Alright with Me. We played that really recently. It's mad song,

1421
01:23:40,680 --> 01:23:44,280
Speaker 2: but it's like a punk song, and all of those

1422
01:23:44,320 --> 01:23:45,640
Speaker 2: I think, so that was it. I think it was

1423
01:23:45,680 --> 01:23:48,479
Speaker 2: four tracks and I thought they all sounded great. But

1424
01:23:48,800 --> 01:23:52,719
Speaker 2: after that we were never really happy with the mixes.

1425
01:23:52,760 --> 01:23:56,880
Speaker 2: And I know, I keep moving forward. But the last

1426
01:23:56,920 --> 01:23:58,920
Speaker 2: one we did was a cover of Little antonin the

1427
01:23:58,960 --> 01:24:02,439
Speaker 2: Imperials going Out of My Head, and they mixed it

1428
01:24:02,520 --> 01:24:05,400
Speaker 2: while we were out of the country. Well, we wouldn't

1429
01:24:05,439 --> 01:24:08,599
Speaker 2: have been in the mix mixing studio anyway. But anyway,

1430
01:24:08,640 --> 01:24:12,240
Speaker 2: we came back and we were so disappointed. It had

1431
01:24:12,400 --> 01:24:16,639
Speaker 2: been no resemblance to how we left it in our minds,

1432
01:24:16,920 --> 01:24:19,200
Speaker 2: and that was the end of our And it was

1433
01:24:19,240 --> 01:24:23,479
Speaker 2: a fairly friendly breakup with Ken Jones. And that's when

1434
01:24:24,920 --> 01:24:27,760
Speaker 2: especially Rod and Chris decided they wanted to make an

1435
01:24:27,760 --> 01:24:32,360
Speaker 2: album with them in the production chair. And that's when

1436
01:24:32,360 --> 01:24:36,080
Speaker 2: we recorded Odyssey on Oracle. There was no independent producer

1437
01:24:36,439 --> 01:24:39,600
Speaker 2: in the studio. It was Rod and Chris produced that

1438
01:24:40,000 --> 01:24:45,160
Speaker 2: with the help of the wonderful Abbey Road engineers Jeff

1439
01:24:45,160 --> 01:24:49,240
Speaker 2: Emerick and Peter Vince, absolutely wonderful engineers.

1440
01:24:58,240 --> 01:25:00,680
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back the first night you're recording the

1441
01:25:00,720 --> 01:25:04,840
Speaker 1: four songs recorded on four tracks. Do they do a

1442
01:25:04,960 --> 01:25:07,760
Speaker 1: rough mix, you know, instantaneously so you could hear it,

1443
01:25:07,880 --> 01:25:09,920
Speaker 1: or did you never even hear everybody together?

1444
01:25:12,160 --> 01:25:16,240
Speaker 2: I think I probably heard a rough idea of it. Yeah,

1445
01:25:16,400 --> 01:25:18,000
Speaker 2: it is sixty something years.

1446
01:25:18,360 --> 01:25:20,840
Speaker 1: I guess what I'm saying is I'm wondering what the

1447
01:25:21,000 --> 01:25:25,759
Speaker 1: experience is when you actually hear it, go, Holy fuck,

1448
01:25:25,920 --> 01:25:29,439
Speaker 1: this is this is unbelievable. Was that after the mix

1449
01:25:29,560 --> 01:25:31,360
Speaker 1: or never until it became a hit.

1450
01:25:33,240 --> 01:25:37,920
Speaker 2: I didn't think I ever really felt like that. I'm

1451
01:25:37,960 --> 01:25:40,920
Speaker 2: trying to remember. I think I thought it was pretty good.

1452
01:25:42,600 --> 01:25:46,040
Speaker 1: Okay, it comes ounds very it comes out in like

1453
01:25:46,120 --> 01:25:49,320
Speaker 1: three weeks. Yeah, I mean we're in America, it's different.

1454
01:25:49,320 --> 01:25:51,879
Speaker 1: It's already hit in England by the time it gets here. Yeah,

1455
01:25:52,240 --> 01:25:54,679
Speaker 1: how did the ascension on the track? How did it break?

1456
01:25:55,360 --> 01:25:58,080
Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you one thing that happened. There was

1457
01:25:58,120 --> 01:26:01,680
Speaker 2: a TV show in the UK called Jukebox Jury, so

1458
01:26:01,720 --> 01:26:08,360
Speaker 2: they'd have five stars would vote on whether the particular

1459
01:26:08,400 --> 01:26:11,040
Speaker 2: record would They would pay play thirty seconds of a

1460
01:26:11,120 --> 01:26:13,000
Speaker 2: record and then they'd vote whether this is going to

1461
01:26:13,000 --> 01:26:15,439
Speaker 2: be a hit or a miss. And on the week

1462
01:26:15,560 --> 01:26:19,559
Speaker 2: when She's Not There came out, George Harrison was on

1463
01:26:19,920 --> 01:26:23,760
Speaker 2: the panel of Jukebox Jury and they played She's Not

1464
01:26:23,880 --> 01:26:26,680
Speaker 2: There and he loved it. And I remember, and I

1465
01:26:26,720 --> 01:26:30,160
Speaker 2: won't try and do a Liverpool accent, but I remember

1466
01:26:30,280 --> 01:26:34,439
Speaker 2: he said, well done, Zombies. Obviously he didn't know us,

1467
01:26:34,880 --> 01:26:37,879
Speaker 2: he didn't know us from Adam, but he said, well done, zombies.

1468
01:26:38,880 --> 01:26:40,959
Speaker 2: That was a thrill when.

1469
01:26:41,680 --> 01:26:42,920
Speaker 1: Oh, sure it was.

1470
01:26:43,160 --> 01:26:47,599
Speaker 2: When George Harrison said She's Not There was a good

1471
01:26:47,680 --> 01:26:53,599
Speaker 2: record well, blimey, yeah, that really took my breath away.

1472
01:26:54,280 --> 01:26:57,040
Speaker 1: Okay, it was on TV. That's a huge step. But

1473
01:26:57,400 --> 01:27:00,479
Speaker 1: when did it start to become successful really quickly?

1474
01:27:01,400 --> 01:27:03,760
Speaker 2: It's funny because I don't think Deca were particularly keen

1475
01:27:03,840 --> 01:27:08,400
Speaker 2: on it. I don't know. I'm sure they weren't, but

1476
01:27:08,439 --> 01:27:12,400
Speaker 2: it was a hit very quickly. Funnily enough, it came

1477
01:27:12,439 --> 01:27:17,920
Speaker 2: out in America about three months later on Parrot on

1478
01:27:18,120 --> 01:27:22,760
Speaker 2: Parrot and London Records who owned the Parrot, they weren't

1479
01:27:22,800 --> 01:27:26,759
Speaker 2: keen on it either, But although it came out later,

1480
01:27:26,920 --> 01:27:29,679
Speaker 2: it was a hit quite quickly in America as well.

1481
01:27:29,960 --> 01:27:30,880
Speaker 2: It's funny, isn't it.

1482
01:27:31,640 --> 01:27:36,519
Speaker 1: The record is a hit. This was a lark. Yes, yeah.

1483
01:27:37,520 --> 01:27:40,400
Speaker 1: What's going through your mind? And what happens?

1484
01:27:41,920 --> 01:27:44,479
Speaker 2: I think when you're young, you see, I don't know

1485
01:27:44,520 --> 01:27:46,599
Speaker 2: the answer to that question, but I think when you're

1486
01:27:46,640 --> 01:27:51,880
Speaker 2: young you take an awful lot for granted. It's you know,

1487
01:27:52,760 --> 01:27:55,240
Speaker 2: you just get on with it, don't you. Really. So

1488
01:27:55,840 --> 01:27:58,800
Speaker 2: one day you're an amateur band playing at the local

1489
01:27:58,920 --> 01:28:05,200
Speaker 2: rugby club and the next day, inexplicably, you're on huge tours.

1490
01:28:05,240 --> 01:28:07,600
Speaker 2: They used to these package tours in the UK, and

1491
01:28:07,640 --> 01:28:12,080
Speaker 2: our management company was very involved in that. So shortly

1492
01:28:12,120 --> 01:28:15,519
Speaker 2: after we played the old Varion Alium's rugby club, and

1493
01:28:15,560 --> 01:28:20,200
Speaker 2: where Rod's drying his keyboard with the hair with the

1494
01:28:20,320 --> 01:28:26,479
Speaker 2: hair dryer, We're touring with the Searchers, Deal Morriic and

1495
01:28:26,840 --> 01:28:31,520
Speaker 2: the Isisley Brothers and some other artists as well around

1496
01:28:31,760 --> 01:28:34,760
Speaker 2: some of the major venues in the UK. Wasn't a

1497
01:28:34,760 --> 01:28:38,519
Speaker 2: big gap and we just had to get on with it.

1498
01:28:39,920 --> 01:28:46,040
Speaker 1: How was the reception in those multi gig tours insane?

1499
01:28:47,120 --> 01:28:50,040
Speaker 2: I often said that, certainly for the first couple of years,

1500
01:28:50,400 --> 01:28:52,679
Speaker 2: I needn't a bothered singing at all. Really, I don't

1501
01:28:52,680 --> 01:28:58,040
Speaker 2: think anybody heard anything very very noisy on those tours.

1502
01:28:59,000 --> 01:29:00,679
Speaker 1: How many songs would you play?

1503
01:29:01,520 --> 01:29:06,719
Speaker 2: Not many? Two or three? Four? Maybe?

1504
01:29:07,439 --> 01:29:11,160
Speaker 1: Okay, So now the records are hit, how often are

1505
01:29:11,160 --> 01:29:12,920
Speaker 1: you working?

1506
01:29:12,960 --> 01:29:16,439
Speaker 2: We were working at a lot, working all the time,

1507
01:29:17,000 --> 01:29:19,920
Speaker 2: and at the same time the pressure's on from Decca Records.

1508
01:29:20,240 --> 01:29:23,240
Speaker 2: We need another single in six weeks and that was

1509
01:29:23,360 --> 01:29:25,760
Speaker 2: all the time we were with Decca. Another single in

1510
01:29:25,840 --> 01:29:29,519
Speaker 2: six weeks. But the problem we had was the challenge

1511
01:29:29,560 --> 01:29:33,360
Speaker 2: that we had was that Rod Argent and Chris White

1512
01:29:33,400 --> 01:29:36,559
Speaker 2: had only just discovered that they could write songs, so

1513
01:29:36,640 --> 01:29:39,519
Speaker 2: they didn't have a back catalog of songs, and they're

1514
01:29:39,560 --> 01:29:43,360
Speaker 2: trying to write as we're going along, but we're touring

1515
01:29:43,360 --> 01:29:46,599
Speaker 2: all the time, so there wasn't much time. The pressure

1516
01:29:46,680 --> 01:29:51,479
Speaker 2: really went on for a follow up, and Rod had nothing,

1517
01:29:52,120 --> 01:29:55,120
Speaker 2: and Chris White had one song and it was a

1518
01:29:55,120 --> 01:29:58,120
Speaker 2: song called leave Me Be, and none of us thought

1519
01:29:58,200 --> 01:30:01,120
Speaker 2: instead of hope and hell, of being a single. But

1520
01:30:01,680 --> 01:30:05,599
Speaker 2: we we didn't understand enough about the record industry to

1521
01:30:05,680 --> 01:30:08,519
Speaker 2: dig our heels in and say, well, you'll just you'll

1522
01:30:08,520 --> 01:30:11,519
Speaker 2: have to wait, And so leave Me Be was released.

1523
01:30:11,600 --> 01:30:15,360
Speaker 2: Unfortunately it wasn't a hit, and it's it just seems

1524
01:30:15,400 --> 01:30:18,720
Speaker 2: so such a short sighted way of doing things that

1525
01:30:18,760 --> 01:30:23,080
Speaker 2: Decker would put the pressure on like that. It's almost

1526
01:30:23,960 --> 01:30:26,479
Speaker 2: you know that in a very short period of time

1527
01:30:26,520 --> 01:30:28,599
Speaker 2: your career is going to be over because they want

1528
01:30:28,720 --> 01:30:32,480
Speaker 2: singles all the time, and no one can keep producing

1529
01:30:32,520 --> 01:30:36,960
Speaker 2: singles self for what's the word, I can't think there's an.

1530
01:30:36,840 --> 01:30:38,520
Speaker 1: Extreme fulfilling prophecy.

1531
01:30:38,360 --> 01:30:44,679
Speaker 2: Self fulfilling prophecy. Yeah, you can't keep putting out singles

1532
01:30:44,680 --> 01:30:47,120
Speaker 2: every six Well, I mean, I suppose the Beatles did,

1533
01:30:47,120 --> 01:30:49,400
Speaker 2: but they were the exception. We certainly couldn't.

1534
01:30:49,720 --> 01:30:52,960
Speaker 1: So how does tell her no come to be recorded.

1535
01:30:55,240 --> 01:30:59,040
Speaker 2: I you know, we were kept on by Decker even

1536
01:30:59,080 --> 01:31:04,479
Speaker 2: though we'd had this flop record, And again we were

1537
01:31:04,520 --> 01:31:09,920
Speaker 2: recording through the night, and I can't remember how many

1538
01:31:10,000 --> 01:31:13,400
Speaker 2: other songs we recorded, but I remember how one of

1539
01:31:13,439 --> 01:31:16,760
Speaker 2: the trigger for writing that song for Rod because we

1540
01:31:17,520 --> 01:31:20,639
Speaker 2: toured with Dean Morrick and she was singing a lot

1541
01:31:20,680 --> 01:31:25,640
Speaker 2: of Bert Baccarak songs and Rob was really impressed with

1542
01:31:25,720 --> 01:31:29,479
Speaker 2: those songs and the kind of chords that they've made

1543
01:31:29,560 --> 01:31:33,599
Speaker 2: up those songs. He's not copying anything in the songs,

1544
01:31:33,640 --> 01:31:37,559
Speaker 2: but he's just I can hear it now, Yeah, tell

1545
01:31:37,600 --> 01:31:41,280
Speaker 2: her those sounds like a really simple song, and melodically

1546
01:31:41,479 --> 01:31:44,120
Speaker 2: it is, but if you get someone to try and

1547
01:31:44,280 --> 01:31:47,760
Speaker 2: play it, it's not simple. It's not simple at all.

1548
01:31:48,280 --> 01:31:51,280
Speaker 2: And he'd used the idea of some of those chords

1549
01:31:51,320 --> 01:31:54,840
Speaker 2: from Burt Bacharak, So that's how that came about. Again,

1550
01:31:54,880 --> 01:31:59,599
Speaker 2: we were recording late, and as it happens, they did

1551
01:31:59,640 --> 01:32:04,040
Speaker 2: all the tracks first, and I fell asleep and they

1552
01:32:04,040 --> 01:32:08,000
Speaker 2: woke me up to same tell him, and I went

1553
01:32:08,080 --> 01:32:10,559
Speaker 2: up there and I sang it, but the second chorus

1554
01:32:11,000 --> 01:32:13,680
Speaker 2: I was still half asleep, and the second chorus I

1555
01:32:13,760 --> 01:32:16,759
Speaker 2: just mumbled my way through it, but I kept going.

1556
01:32:17,560 --> 01:32:19,519
Speaker 2: And then I went into the control room aarters and

1557
01:32:19,520 --> 01:32:22,759
Speaker 2: I said to Kenja's I'm really sorry. You know, I

1558
01:32:22,840 --> 01:32:24,800
Speaker 2: just mumbled through that second chorus. I mean, can you

1559
01:32:24,880 --> 01:32:27,360
Speaker 2: drop me in and I'll just do that. Don't worry

1560
01:32:27,400 --> 01:32:32,040
Speaker 2: about that. That's fine, that's fine. And obviously he understood

1561
01:32:32,040 --> 01:32:35,000
Speaker 2: the record industry better than me, because there's a mumbled

1562
01:32:35,240 --> 01:32:38,479
Speaker 2: second chorus. The record went to number six in America

1563
01:32:38,520 --> 01:32:42,959
Speaker 2: and pretty much sold a million copies, so he understood

1564
01:32:42,960 --> 01:32:43,840
Speaker 2: it better than I did.

1565
01:32:45,040 --> 01:32:48,719
Speaker 1: Okay, so now you have the success, when's the first

1566
01:32:48,760 --> 01:32:49,800
Speaker 1: time you get a check?

1567
01:32:53,640 --> 01:32:57,400
Speaker 2: Well, I know we were getting checks. It's funnily enough,

1568
01:32:57,479 --> 01:33:00,400
Speaker 2: I don't. I think we did quite well out of

1569
01:33:00,479 --> 01:33:04,000
Speaker 2: the records, not thousands and thousands, but enough to live.

1570
01:33:05,240 --> 01:33:07,880
Speaker 2: But I remember getting checks more for time of the

1571
01:33:07,960 --> 01:33:09,920
Speaker 2: season than I do for.

1572
01:33:11,240 --> 01:33:15,559
Speaker 1: I'm actually asking question less about the checks. You're just

1573
01:33:15,680 --> 01:33:19,160
Speaker 1: dirt bags hanging out in your hometown. Now you have

1574
01:33:19,200 --> 01:33:22,880
Speaker 1: a hit record. When you go back home, there are

1575
01:33:22,920 --> 01:33:25,040
Speaker 1: people who love you, and there are people will hate you.

1576
01:33:25,120 --> 01:33:27,680
Speaker 1: I mean, you come back the conquering heroes.

1577
01:33:29,560 --> 01:33:31,720
Speaker 2: Exactly what you said. I think there were people that

1578
01:33:31,920 --> 01:33:35,439
Speaker 2: admired us, but you know, a lot of young guys

1579
01:33:36,120 --> 01:33:38,960
Speaker 2: could be problems. And I can remember, this is my

1580
01:33:39,080 --> 01:33:41,320
Speaker 2: sort of attitude to it. Always it's not going to

1581
01:33:41,439 --> 01:33:44,519
Speaker 2: change me. This is not But it's really naive to

1582
01:33:44,560 --> 01:33:48,479
Speaker 2: think like that because it changes other people. Doesn't matter

1583
01:33:48,479 --> 01:33:52,120
Speaker 2: whether you change or not, they change. And I used

1584
01:33:52,120 --> 01:33:54,439
Speaker 2: to love to go to the rugby clubs. I'd love

1585
01:33:54,479 --> 01:33:56,759
Speaker 2: to go to the pub and have a few pints

1586
01:33:57,320 --> 01:34:01,000
Speaker 2: and some guy becoming up, who do you think you are?

1587
01:34:03,600 --> 01:34:05,960
Speaker 2: Before you know where you are? You know, they're rolling

1588
01:34:05,960 --> 01:34:07,800
Speaker 2: their sleeves up and they want to fight, you know.

1589
01:34:08,439 --> 01:34:13,640
Speaker 2: So yeah, there were a few challenges locally. I was

1590
01:34:13,680 --> 01:34:16,320
Speaker 2: never a very good fighter, but I did get involved

1591
01:34:16,360 --> 01:34:18,479
Speaker 2: in a few fights. And I can't fight my way

1592
01:34:18,479 --> 01:34:21,919
Speaker 2: out of a paper bag. I think famously at Rod's

1593
01:34:22,160 --> 01:34:24,519
Speaker 2: twenty first, he sort of turned away for a minute

1594
01:34:24,520 --> 01:34:27,240
Speaker 2: and I got in a fight. He said, I turned around,

1595
01:34:27,280 --> 01:34:30,200
Speaker 2: You've got one sleeve pulled off your pullover and blood

1596
01:34:30,200 --> 01:34:32,320
Speaker 2: streaming down your nose. I need to turn around for

1597
01:34:32,400 --> 01:34:35,280
Speaker 2: a second. And this guy, you know, just to get

1598
01:34:35,320 --> 01:34:38,320
Speaker 2: him frisky, and you're off. So there was a little

1599
01:34:38,320 --> 01:34:38,760
Speaker 2: bit of that.

1600
01:34:39,720 --> 01:34:41,400
Speaker 1: What'd your parents say?

1601
01:34:42,040 --> 01:34:44,759
Speaker 2: I think my parents they weren't too keen on the fighting.

1602
01:34:45,880 --> 01:34:49,479
Speaker 2: But I think my parents are immensely proud actually, and

1603
01:34:49,520 --> 01:34:53,120
Speaker 2: I'm very encouraging. You know. They were wonderful people.

1604
01:34:53,320 --> 01:34:59,559
Speaker 1: Okay, so what point did you start discussing going to America.

1605
01:35:00,600 --> 01:35:03,240
Speaker 2: It was quite soon, I guess when it was a

1606
01:35:03,320 --> 01:35:06,799
Speaker 2: hit record. I know when we arrived here. We arrived

1607
01:35:06,800 --> 01:35:10,200
Speaker 2: here just before Christmas nineteen sixty four, and we played

1608
01:35:10,560 --> 01:35:15,000
Speaker 2: Murray the Kay's Christmas Show and we opened on Christmas

1609
01:35:15,120 --> 01:35:20,760
Speaker 2: Day and we would play six, seven, eight shows a day,

1610
01:35:21,000 --> 01:35:24,200
Speaker 2: but you only played two tunes, and there was fourteen

1611
01:35:24,280 --> 01:35:31,760
Speaker 2: or sixteen acts Shangri Las, Dean Warwick again, Benny King,

1612
01:35:32,680 --> 01:35:37,200
Speaker 2: the Charell's, Chuck Jackson, lots of wonderful life, and we

1613
01:35:37,280 --> 01:35:41,320
Speaker 2: had to follow Patti LaBelle and the Bluebells. How would

1614
01:35:41,360 --> 01:35:45,160
Speaker 2: you remember, We've only just come into the business and

1615
01:35:45,640 --> 01:35:50,360
Speaker 2: we're standing in the wings watching herb bring the house down.

1616
01:35:50,800 --> 01:35:54,680
Speaker 2: They were wonderful and we had to follow them. But

1617
01:35:55,080 --> 01:35:58,559
Speaker 2: it was okay, it was all right. And that was

1618
01:35:58,600 --> 01:36:01,040
Speaker 2: a little bit of a nerve wracking moment. I've got

1619
01:36:01,080 --> 01:36:05,320
Speaker 2: to be honest, But okay, all those acts are there

1620
01:36:05,320 --> 01:36:09,960
Speaker 2: at the Brooklyn Fox. Are you all hanging together being friends. Yes,

1621
01:36:10,000 --> 01:36:12,360
Speaker 2: to a large extent we were. There was great camaraderie

1622
01:36:12,400 --> 01:36:17,280
Speaker 2: backstage because although we are abroad, you know, we're British

1623
01:36:17,280 --> 01:36:20,120
Speaker 2: and there American. We opened on Christmas Day. They're away

1624
01:36:20,160 --> 01:36:22,639
Speaker 2: from their families on Christmas Day the same as we are.

1625
01:36:23,200 --> 01:36:26,400
Speaker 2: So yeah, they were very supportive and there was really

1626
01:36:26,400 --> 01:36:29,040
Speaker 2: great camaraderie backstage for the most part.

1627
01:36:29,240 --> 01:36:31,479
Speaker 1: How what was it being in America.

1628
01:36:31,920 --> 01:36:34,600
Speaker 2: It's very different. I was thinking about it on this

1629
01:36:35,040 --> 01:36:38,280
Speaker 2: trip over here. Now America and the UK are much

1630
01:36:38,320 --> 01:36:41,839
Speaker 2: more similar now, but then it was very very different.

1631
01:36:42,520 --> 01:36:46,200
Speaker 2: Got off the plane and we're walking into you know

1632
01:36:46,560 --> 01:36:49,960
Speaker 2: where you show your passports and everything. This guy's got

1633
01:36:49,960 --> 01:36:53,479
Speaker 2: a bloody gun. He's got a gun. I've never seen

1634
01:36:53,479 --> 01:36:57,680
Speaker 2: a gun before. It was really scary. Anyway, this is

1635
01:36:57,720 --> 01:37:02,439
Speaker 2: what happened to me. My mom never quite got into

1636
01:37:02,439 --> 01:37:04,439
Speaker 2: the swing of me being in a band and everything

1637
01:37:04,520 --> 01:37:07,840
Speaker 2: like that. So we went to the airport. There were

1638
01:37:07,920 --> 01:37:10,320
Speaker 2: lots of people seeing us off at the airport. She

1639
01:37:10,520 --> 01:37:14,360
Speaker 2: fought her way through and gave me a pack lunch

1640
01:37:14,479 --> 01:37:19,960
Speaker 2: with an apple to take on the plane. And so

1641
01:37:20,640 --> 01:37:23,320
Speaker 2: I think I had eaten the sandwiches, but I hadn't

1642
01:37:23,320 --> 01:37:26,759
Speaker 2: eaten the apple. So the man with the gun opens

1643
01:37:26,840 --> 01:37:30,880
Speaker 2: my bag. He took my mom's apple out of my

1644
01:37:31,000 --> 01:37:34,759
Speaker 2: bag and he ate it in front of me. I thought,

1645
01:37:35,680 --> 01:37:39,800
Speaker 2: this is really not very cool. Anyway, I kept quiet.

1646
01:37:39,800 --> 01:37:42,559
Speaker 2: He got a gun, and then the next guy I

1647
01:37:42,600 --> 01:37:45,920
Speaker 2: spoke to took me off out of the line and

1648
01:37:46,600 --> 01:37:49,160
Speaker 2: he had a gun too. Took me off out of

1649
01:37:49,160 --> 01:37:52,800
Speaker 2: the line. I'm in trouble. He walked me across the

1650
01:37:52,840 --> 01:37:57,240
Speaker 2: hall and into a phone booze and made a phone call,

1651
01:37:57,360 --> 01:38:00,720
Speaker 2: and he said, this is my daughter. Would you just

1652
01:38:00,760 --> 01:38:04,639
Speaker 2: say hello to I thought I was going to be arrested.

1653
01:38:06,880 --> 01:38:09,519
Speaker 2: So that was that was our entry into America. And

1654
01:38:09,520 --> 01:38:14,599
Speaker 2: then we were met by two big Cadillac or Lincoln

1655
01:38:15,080 --> 01:38:18,880
Speaker 2: limousines and run to the airport. And the next day

1656
01:38:18,880 --> 01:38:24,320
Speaker 2: the record company sent us the bill for the You know,

1657
01:38:24,520 --> 01:38:26,800
Speaker 2: I would have taken the subway if I'd known we're

1658
01:38:26,840 --> 01:38:30,559
Speaker 2: going to be built for them. So that then that

1659
01:38:30,720 --> 01:38:32,479
Speaker 2: was our entry into America.

1660
01:38:33,120 --> 01:38:39,479
Speaker 1: Okay, you go back. I assume you tour until you

1661
01:38:39,600 --> 01:38:41,400
Speaker 1: come back to go on the Dick Clark tour.

1662
01:38:41,920 --> 01:38:46,680
Speaker 2: M I don't remember too much about what happened when

1663
01:38:46,720 --> 01:38:51,240
Speaker 2: we went back to the UK, but yes, we came

1664
01:38:51,280 --> 01:38:54,240
Speaker 2: back and toured on the Dick Clark Tour, which but

1665
01:38:54,400 --> 01:38:56,439
Speaker 2: because with Mary the Kay we'd just been in New

1666
01:38:56,520 --> 01:38:59,320
Speaker 2: York and I think we played on the first Hullablue

1667
01:38:59,400 --> 01:39:05,920
Speaker 2: TV show. Jack Jones was the compare. The New Christian

1668
01:39:05,960 --> 01:39:09,160
Speaker 2: Minstrels were on there, and you know, and we were

1669
01:39:09,160 --> 01:39:12,120
Speaker 2: on there, and then we went home and we came

1670
01:39:12,200 --> 01:39:19,040
Speaker 2: back for the Dick Clark Caravan of Stars and we

1671
01:39:19,120 --> 01:39:22,720
Speaker 2: were on a bus for for six weeks with Del

1672
01:39:22,800 --> 01:39:34,240
Speaker 2: Shannon and the ad Libs, the Valvelettes, lots of wonderful acts.

1673
01:39:31,479 --> 01:39:37,040
Speaker 2: Well I've forgotten who some of them were. Now, isn't

1674
01:39:37,040 --> 01:39:37,559
Speaker 2: it awful?

1675
01:39:38,000 --> 01:39:41,920
Speaker 1: Okay? But you're on the you know, it's different now

1676
01:39:42,200 --> 01:39:46,719
Speaker 1: many acts prefer a bus to going commercial plane anyway,

1677
01:39:47,080 --> 01:39:49,799
Speaker 1: but they have these births. You're going on a regular

1678
01:39:49,920 --> 01:39:51,639
Speaker 1: bus and you got to sit there and you got

1679
01:39:51,680 --> 01:39:53,559
Speaker 1: to sleep on the bus. What's that like?

1680
01:39:54,360 --> 01:39:57,799
Speaker 2: It was tough, I tell you, because some of the acts,

1681
01:39:58,000 --> 01:40:00,040
Speaker 2: I mean, we weren't being paid very much. But some

1682
01:40:00,080 --> 01:40:02,599
Speaker 2: of them we've been paying so little that they couldn't

1683
01:40:02,600 --> 01:40:07,000
Speaker 2: afford a hotel every night. So on alternate nights we

1684
01:40:07,040 --> 01:40:09,840
Speaker 2: would leave the gig as slowly as possible, and they

1685
01:40:09,880 --> 01:40:13,920
Speaker 2: would drive through the night very slowly, so we'd we'd

1686
01:40:13,920 --> 01:40:17,160
Speaker 2: sleep on the bus but in regular seats, you know,

1687
01:40:18,000 --> 01:40:21,160
Speaker 2: and and we'd arrive and hope that we could get

1688
01:40:21,160 --> 01:40:24,599
Speaker 2: into the hotel the next night. So it was it

1689
01:40:24,680 --> 01:40:28,880
Speaker 2: was challenging. But we were young, but it was it

1690
01:40:28,920 --> 01:40:29,679
Speaker 2: was quite tough.

1691
01:40:30,840 --> 01:40:35,759
Speaker 1: Okay. So the American perspective is, we're just living our lives.

1692
01:40:35,800 --> 01:40:39,760
Speaker 1: The Beatles hit, there's a British invasion, you're part of that.

1693
01:40:40,120 --> 01:40:44,519
Speaker 1: We see you as equal to all the other racks. Okay,

1694
01:40:45,479 --> 01:40:46,880
Speaker 1: did it feel like that to you?

1695
01:40:49,960 --> 01:40:53,120
Speaker 2: We weren't. I think that. I think there were there

1696
01:40:53,120 --> 01:40:55,320
Speaker 2: were the top, the top ones, you know. I mean

1697
01:40:55,320 --> 01:40:58,080
Speaker 2: obviously the Beatles were that they were on their own,

1698
01:40:58,800 --> 01:41:02,600
Speaker 2: the Stones probably, and then there are other ones that,

1699
01:41:02,800 --> 01:41:06,760
Speaker 2: funnily enough, were really successful here that weren't so successful

1700
01:41:07,000 --> 01:41:11,680
Speaker 2: in the UK. So Herman's Hermits were huge here. We

1701
01:41:11,720 --> 01:41:14,559
Speaker 2: played with them and I saw the audience reaction they got,

1702
01:41:15,040 --> 01:41:18,880
Speaker 2: but they weren't so big in the UK. The Dave

1703
01:41:18,920 --> 01:41:22,320
Speaker 2: Clark five weren't so big in the UK as they

1704
01:41:22,360 --> 01:41:25,640
Speaker 2: were here, and we weren't on a par with them,

1705
01:41:26,000 --> 01:41:28,479
Speaker 2: So it was kind of like a league, you know,

1706
01:41:28,520 --> 01:41:31,439
Speaker 2: they were the top ones, and I think we were Oh.

1707
01:41:31,439 --> 01:41:34,040
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, you were seen as top tier from the

1708
01:41:34,040 --> 01:41:38,840
Speaker 1: American perspective. So you go on the second American tour

1709
01:41:39,000 --> 01:41:43,760
Speaker 1: that's sixty five. In the movie the documentary, you talk

1710
01:41:43,800 --> 01:41:46,320
Speaker 1: about going to the Philippines. When does that happen?

1711
01:41:46,960 --> 01:41:49,160
Speaker 2: That was towards the end of the band. That was

1712
01:41:49,200 --> 01:41:51,599
Speaker 2: in sixty seven, and it.

1713
01:41:51,520 --> 01:41:53,439
Speaker 1: Was wait, wait, wait, so let's not go there. Okay,

1714
01:41:54,200 --> 01:41:58,160
Speaker 1: walk me through what happens between the Dick Clark tour

1715
01:41:58,360 --> 01:41:59,880
Speaker 1: leading up to the end of the band.

1716
01:42:00,840 --> 01:42:07,000
Speaker 2: Well, I think that in many ways things were slipping.

1717
01:42:08,040 --> 01:42:13,200
Speaker 2: The records weren't charting, well, they were charting, but very

1718
01:42:13,240 --> 01:42:16,439
Speaker 2: low down, you know. And also I think that we

1719
01:42:17,080 --> 01:42:22,200
Speaker 2: concentrated or put our attention too much towards the UK

1720
01:42:22,560 --> 01:42:25,639
Speaker 2: and America. These are the charts that we followed. Because

1721
01:42:25,680 --> 01:42:30,000
Speaker 2: when the band finished, we realized that the Zombies always

1722
01:42:30,040 --> 01:42:33,400
Speaker 2: had a hit somewhere in the world the whole time

1723
01:42:33,400 --> 01:42:37,439
Speaker 2: we're together, which seems insane, but there was no Internet

1724
01:42:37,479 --> 01:42:40,559
Speaker 2: in those days, and often you might you might never

1725
01:42:40,640 --> 01:42:43,599
Speaker 2: find out that you'd had a hit, but you also

1726
01:42:43,680 --> 01:42:46,559
Speaker 2: might find out months later that you'd had a hit,

1727
01:42:46,960 --> 01:42:49,240
Speaker 2: And of course you would have liked to have been

1728
01:42:49,280 --> 01:42:51,839
Speaker 2: there to promote it and maybe hopefully play some dates,

1729
01:42:51,880 --> 01:42:56,080
Speaker 2: you know, but we never knew. The Zombies always had

1730
01:42:56,120 --> 01:42:59,880
Speaker 2: a hit somewhere, but they didn't know it, and so

1731
01:43:00,000 --> 01:43:03,879
Speaker 2: so it seemed as though that most awful of things

1732
01:43:03,960 --> 01:43:07,840
Speaker 2: in Koreas, if you like, we started at the top

1733
01:43:08,360 --> 01:43:11,800
Speaker 2: and then gradually slipped down the pole, you know, even

1734
01:43:11,840 --> 01:43:14,240
Speaker 2: though I think we were getting better as a band,

1735
01:43:15,960 --> 01:43:19,960
Speaker 2: there was that last record going out of my head.

1736
01:43:20,040 --> 01:43:22,679
Speaker 2: Because we were in America a lot we knew songs

1737
01:43:22,680 --> 01:43:26,360
Speaker 2: that were hits here that people in the UK didn't know,

1738
01:43:26,400 --> 01:43:28,920
Speaker 2: and that was one it hadn't been a hit, and

1739
01:43:29,000 --> 01:43:30,960
Speaker 2: I thought we did a really good version of it,

1740
01:43:31,320 --> 01:43:34,240
Speaker 2: and the mix was horrendous, and it was at that

1741
01:43:34,360 --> 01:43:37,479
Speaker 2: point we just couldn't work with Ken Jones anymore. And

1742
01:43:37,560 --> 01:43:39,960
Speaker 2: again I was kind of on the periphery of this

1743
01:43:40,040 --> 01:43:45,479
Speaker 2: because to some extent, the writers Rod Argent and Chris

1744
01:43:45,479 --> 01:43:50,600
Speaker 2: White were senior members of the band, if you like,

1745
01:43:50,640 --> 01:43:53,000
Speaker 2: and a lot of the negotiations were done with them.

1746
01:43:53,240 --> 01:43:55,800
Speaker 2: I don't even know if they realized that, but it

1747
01:43:55,920 --> 01:43:59,080
Speaker 2: was the case. We ended up getting a one record

1748
01:43:59,160 --> 01:43:59,960
Speaker 2: deal with CBO.

1749
01:44:00,080 --> 01:44:03,320
Speaker 1: Yes, just to be clear, this is before or after

1750
01:44:03,400 --> 01:44:07,479
Speaker 1: the Philippines. This is just after the phillip So tell

1751
01:44:07,520 --> 01:44:11,400
Speaker 1: us what happens in the Philippines. Well, it's an extraordinary experience.

1752
01:44:13,640 --> 01:44:15,680
Speaker 1: We were asked if we wanted to go to the Philippines.

1753
01:44:16,400 --> 01:44:18,320
Speaker 1: I'd be honest with you. I didn't really know where

1754
01:44:18,320 --> 01:44:24,000
Speaker 1: the Philippines was, and I thought we would go there

1755
01:44:24,439 --> 01:44:27,680
Speaker 1: and be playing. It was it was called the Aaronetta

1756
01:44:27,720 --> 01:44:30,479
Speaker 1: Coliseum where we were going, and I thought, maybe that's

1757
01:44:30,479 --> 01:44:33,360
Speaker 1: a hotel and we'd play in the foyer in the

1758
01:44:33,439 --> 01:44:36,880
Speaker 1: evenings and we'd sit on the beach and the day.

1759
01:44:36,920 --> 01:44:39,600
Speaker 1: I thought we were going for ten days, and I

1760
01:44:39,640 --> 01:44:42,080
Speaker 1: thought it would be fun. You know, this is my feeling.

1761
01:44:42,280 --> 01:44:44,360
Speaker 1: I think at the time the contracts were actually being

1762
01:44:44,400 --> 01:44:46,760
Speaker 1: sent to me. No one else wanted to do that.

1763
01:44:46,880 --> 01:44:47,960
Speaker 1: It just had to sign it.

1764
01:44:47,960 --> 01:44:52,479
Speaker 2: That wasn't doing anything other than signing contracts. And so

1765
01:44:53,080 --> 01:44:55,960
Speaker 2: we arrived there at three I think someone bought the

1766
01:44:56,040 --> 01:44:58,920
Speaker 2: cheapest ticket flight you could ever do. So we're flying

1767
01:44:58,960 --> 01:45:05,280
Speaker 2: to the Philippines and stopped in Paris, then Rome, then

1768
01:45:05,320 --> 01:45:08,120
Speaker 2: in the Middle East, then on both sides of India,

1769
01:45:08,600 --> 01:45:10,599
Speaker 2: and then in Hong Kong, where we had a seven

1770
01:45:10,640 --> 01:45:15,000
Speaker 2: hour layover and then we flew to Manila. You can imagine.

1771
01:45:15,640 --> 01:45:18,760
Speaker 2: I can't it was like thirty hours, or maybe that's

1772
01:45:18,760 --> 01:45:20,760
Speaker 2: an exaggeration. It was a long time, but you know,

1773
01:45:20,840 --> 01:45:24,080
Speaker 2: it probably was thirty It was a long time. Probably

1774
01:45:24,120 --> 01:45:26,720
Speaker 2: could have got there on a bike faster. Anyway, we

1775
01:45:26,840 --> 01:45:29,600
Speaker 2: arrive at three o'clock in the morning. There are thousands

1776
01:45:29,600 --> 01:45:34,360
Speaker 2: of people at the airport, so I'm thinking there must

1777
01:45:34,360 --> 01:45:37,320
Speaker 2: be someone famous on this plane. I'm getting off the plane,

1778
01:45:38,920 --> 01:45:41,960
Speaker 2: I'm looking over them. I'm looking backwards over my shoulder

1779
01:45:42,040 --> 01:45:44,519
Speaker 2: to see who was on the plane. And then they

1780
01:45:44,560 --> 01:45:48,000
Speaker 2: start putting up flowers and things around our neck, and

1781
01:45:48,040 --> 01:45:52,879
Speaker 2: I can see there's like a movie newsreel camera thing filming.

1782
01:45:53,000 --> 01:45:57,400
Speaker 2: It was totally unprepared for this filming us. And we

1783
01:45:57,479 --> 01:46:00,799
Speaker 2: go to the aeron Aaronessa Coliseum and at the time,

1784
01:46:00,960 --> 01:46:04,880
Speaker 2: I believe it was the second biggest call it arena.

1785
01:46:05,160 --> 01:46:09,200
Speaker 2: There was one in Texas that was bigger. There was

1786
01:46:09,520 --> 01:46:11,800
Speaker 2: like a hotel at the back and a restaurant where

1787
01:46:12,240 --> 01:46:16,439
Speaker 2: we stayed. It was huge, and we opened to twenty

1788
01:46:16,479 --> 01:46:21,360
Speaker 2: eight thousand people. Now those figures might not be absolutely accurate,

1789
01:46:21,400 --> 01:46:23,519
Speaker 2: but that's what I was told. I can tell you

1790
01:46:23,600 --> 01:46:27,160
Speaker 2: it was a shedload of people. It was big. We

1791
01:46:27,240 --> 01:46:30,280
Speaker 2: stayed for ten days. That was a Friday night. The

1792
01:46:30,320 --> 01:46:33,400
Speaker 2: Saturday we played a matin eight of fifteen thousand, and

1793
01:46:33,520 --> 01:46:36,800
Speaker 2: Saturday night we played to thirty two thousand, and it

1794
01:46:37,000 --> 01:46:42,000
Speaker 2: went on roughly like that for the whole ten nights. Sadly,

1795
01:46:42,080 --> 01:46:45,400
Speaker 2: we were being paid eighty pounds a night, out of

1796
01:46:45,439 --> 01:46:47,519
Speaker 2: which we had to play a manager and an agent,

1797
01:46:48,880 --> 01:46:52,120
Speaker 2: so we were probably playing for about five pounds each

1798
01:46:52,320 --> 01:46:56,720
Speaker 2: a night to twenty eight thousand people or thirty two

1799
01:46:56,800 --> 01:47:01,000
Speaker 2: thousand people on the Saturday night. And you know, we

1800
01:47:01,080 --> 01:47:03,840
Speaker 2: have never been people who are particularly motivated by money.

1801
01:47:04,600 --> 01:47:07,160
Speaker 2: But it just starts to get a bit ridiculous. You know,

1802
01:47:07,200 --> 01:47:10,040
Speaker 2: we've got the non writers, have got no money anyway,

1803
01:47:10,520 --> 01:47:14,000
Speaker 2: We're playing this huge venue in getting nothing, and it

1804
01:47:15,400 --> 01:47:19,080
Speaker 2: it just it turned very strange. We asked the promoter

1805
01:47:19,200 --> 01:47:22,480
Speaker 2: there who his name was, Aaronetta. It was his coliseum.

1806
01:47:22,920 --> 01:47:25,320
Speaker 2: He had a private army, you know, and he wanted

1807
01:47:25,360 --> 01:47:29,200
Speaker 2: to keep us in there. It's unbelievable, you know, very

1808
01:47:29,280 --> 01:47:32,120
Speaker 2: much in their power. He got our passports, he had

1809
01:47:32,240 --> 01:47:36,200
Speaker 2: armed guards who were used to circular and he wanted

1810
01:47:36,280 --> 01:47:39,960
Speaker 2: us to stay inside there. But we met people because

1811
01:47:40,000 --> 01:47:43,400
Speaker 2: there was a hotel and restaurant backstage. Lots of people

1812
01:47:43,439 --> 01:47:45,400
Speaker 2: would come backstairs and they would ask us to pass this,

1813
01:47:45,720 --> 01:47:48,280
Speaker 2: and we would go out in the boot of the

1814
01:47:48,320 --> 01:47:52,160
Speaker 2: trunk of their cars. These people had submachine guns on

1815
01:47:52,240 --> 01:47:55,920
Speaker 2: the doors of the stadium, so we would go out

1816
01:47:55,960 --> 01:47:58,000
Speaker 2: to passes and things like that. But at the end

1817
01:47:58,040 --> 01:47:59,880
Speaker 2: of the ten days we said, well, we'd like to stay,

1818
01:48:00,160 --> 01:48:02,880
Speaker 2: and we'd like to I didn't actually speak to him,

1819
01:48:03,040 --> 01:48:06,760
Speaker 2: but I know they asked for a couple of guys.

1820
01:48:06,800 --> 01:48:09,479
Speaker 2: Tour manager and someone else in the band asked for

1821
01:48:09,479 --> 01:48:11,880
Speaker 2: one thousand dollars a night and fifty percents at all,

1822
01:48:12,439 --> 01:48:15,200
Speaker 2: and you kicked him out and said, look, I paid

1823
01:48:15,240 --> 01:48:17,719
Speaker 2: for your flights here, I'm paying for your flights back,

1824
01:48:18,439 --> 01:48:21,760
Speaker 2: off you go. You know. So it got very difficult.

1825
01:48:21,880 --> 01:48:25,679
Speaker 2: We managed to get our passports back, but he made

1826
01:48:25,720 --> 01:48:28,400
Speaker 2: it very uncomfortable for us being in the Philippines. We

1827
01:48:28,479 --> 01:48:32,280
Speaker 2: went to Hong Kong whilst another promoter and tried to

1828
01:48:32,280 --> 01:48:34,280
Speaker 2: get us some dates, and eventually he managed to get

1829
01:48:34,320 --> 01:48:37,000
Speaker 2: us some dates. We went back to the Philippines and

1830
01:48:37,160 --> 01:48:39,600
Speaker 2: the first gig we got we were playing two on

1831
01:48:39,640 --> 01:48:42,120
Speaker 2: the first night. It was at the club called the

1832
01:48:42,240 --> 01:48:44,479
Speaker 2: Nile Club, and it was sort of the place to be.

1833
01:48:44,760 --> 01:48:47,080
Speaker 2: We'd sound checked, we'd had a meal, We're going to

1834
01:48:47,160 --> 01:48:49,960
Speaker 2: go on stage, and they said, sorry, you can't play,

1835
01:48:50,439 --> 01:48:54,439
Speaker 2: and it was very obvious they'd been threatened. So we

1836
01:48:54,479 --> 01:48:57,360
Speaker 2: didn't play. The second We went on to the second

1837
01:48:57,360 --> 01:49:00,720
Speaker 2: place and we did play, and in the morning we

1838
01:49:00,800 --> 01:49:02,920
Speaker 2: got on a plane to fly to another island. We

1839
01:49:03,040 --> 01:49:06,160
Speaker 2: got a newspaper and that second club burnt down in

1840
01:49:06,240 --> 01:49:12,640
Speaker 2: the night. Now I'm not like, maybe it was a coincidence,

1841
01:49:13,360 --> 01:49:17,520
Speaker 2: but that's that's what happened in the Philippines. The audiences

1842
01:49:17,520 --> 01:49:20,720
Speaker 2: were wonderful the Philippine and people were wonderful. But we

1843
01:49:20,920 --> 01:49:26,479
Speaker 2: just got involved in a very strange setup, and it

1844
01:49:26,520 --> 01:49:29,040
Speaker 2: was it was very difficult, Okay.

1845
01:49:29,520 --> 01:49:33,479
Speaker 1: In the movie, which I keep referencing, you talk about

1846
01:49:33,520 --> 01:49:36,800
Speaker 1: playing a gig for almost no money and then talking

1847
01:49:36,840 --> 01:49:40,240
Speaker 1: to the promoter, promoter says, you know, it's too expensive

1848
01:49:41,160 --> 01:49:44,360
Speaker 1: to have you back. Who was getting the money?

1849
01:49:44,920 --> 01:49:48,400
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, in some ways I wonder whether I

1850
01:49:48,400 --> 01:49:52,080
Speaker 2: didn't say too much. And and but remember when you

1851
01:49:52,120 --> 01:49:54,960
Speaker 2: see the movie, I might have been talking for an

1852
01:49:54,960 --> 01:49:57,519
Speaker 2: hour and a half when I get to that bit,

1853
01:49:58,160 --> 01:50:02,240
Speaker 2: because no one's alive now that we're talking about so

1854
01:50:02,360 --> 01:50:09,040
Speaker 2: they can't speak, They can't give their side of the argument,

1855
01:50:09,160 --> 01:50:12,320
Speaker 2: you know, but it is true. I was talking when

1856
01:50:12,360 --> 01:50:16,000
Speaker 2: I spoke to a promoter and I'm just the place

1857
01:50:16,120 --> 01:50:18,719
Speaker 2: was heaving. This is back in the UK. The place

1858
01:50:18,840 --> 01:50:21,400
Speaker 2: was heaving, and I said, I see you next time.

1859
01:50:22,080 --> 01:50:25,519
Speaker 2: It won't be a next time. What is it? Why's

1860
01:50:25,600 --> 01:50:28,920
Speaker 2: that you're too expensive? I knew what we remember, I said,

1861
01:50:28,960 --> 01:50:31,400
Speaker 2: I was signing the contracts. No one else wanted to

1862
01:50:31,439 --> 01:50:34,439
Speaker 2: do it. I knew what we were getting and I said, well,

1863
01:50:34,439 --> 01:50:36,600
Speaker 2: what did you pay for us? And he told me

1864
01:50:37,120 --> 01:50:39,040
Speaker 2: and it was three and a half times what we

1865
01:50:39,040 --> 01:50:43,000
Speaker 2: were getting. But listen, I don't want to get into

1866
01:50:43,040 --> 01:50:43,799
Speaker 2: too much details.

1867
01:50:43,840 --> 01:50:46,160
Speaker 1: Well who do you think was getting the money?

1868
01:50:47,600 --> 01:50:52,000
Speaker 2: Well, I can certainly tell you it wasn't us. Who

1869
01:50:52,040 --> 01:50:53,360
Speaker 2: do you think was getting the money?

1870
01:50:55,000 --> 01:50:57,479
Speaker 1: Do I think it's usually the manager who takes the money?

1871
01:50:58,479 --> 01:50:59,560
Speaker 2: Well you said that, not me?

1872
01:51:00,000 --> 01:51:07,040
Speaker 1: Okay, Just moving on. You're recording Odyssey and Oracle for CBS.

1873
01:51:08,120 --> 01:51:12,160
Speaker 1: Forget with hindsight when you're making it. Is it a

1874
01:51:12,200 --> 01:51:15,840
Speaker 1: good experience? Do you think it's good? Or the band

1875
01:51:15,920 --> 01:51:18,559
Speaker 1: is running on fumes? Let's just finish the record. What

1876
01:51:18,760 --> 01:51:19,240
Speaker 1: was going on?

1877
01:51:19,439 --> 01:51:21,960
Speaker 2: Well, again, I think we remember this differently. I'm a

1878
01:51:22,080 --> 01:51:24,840
Speaker 2: herd Rod say that we knew the band was going

1879
01:51:24,880 --> 01:51:27,479
Speaker 2: to finish, and we felt that we would like to

1880
01:51:27,520 --> 01:51:30,559
Speaker 2: make an album before the band finished. I didn't feel

1881
01:51:30,640 --> 01:51:35,040
Speaker 2: like that. I thought the band was still going. But

1882
01:51:35,640 --> 01:51:38,680
Speaker 2: that's not an argument with him. We just remember it differently,

1883
01:51:38,800 --> 01:51:42,719
Speaker 2: you know, I really enjoyed it. We had a really

1884
01:51:42,760 --> 01:51:45,880
Speaker 2: small budget. We had one thousand pounds from CBS, and

1885
01:51:46,080 --> 01:51:49,360
Speaker 2: somehow we managed to get into Abbey Road Studios, which

1886
01:51:49,439 --> 01:51:52,320
Speaker 2: was called EMI Studios at the time. It's in a

1887
01:51:52,479 --> 01:51:56,120
Speaker 2: road called Abbey Road, but it was called EMI Studios,

1888
01:51:56,400 --> 01:52:00,240
Speaker 2: but we weren't on EMI, and as far as as

1889
01:52:00,240 --> 01:52:06,000
Speaker 2: I know, very few or no non EMI artists had

1890
01:52:06,000 --> 01:52:10,200
Speaker 2: ever recorded in Abbey Road. So I don't know how

1891
01:52:10,240 --> 01:52:12,400
Speaker 2: we got in there, because it was at the time

1892
01:52:12,560 --> 01:52:16,639
Speaker 2: was definitely the best studio in the country. Because we've

1893
01:52:16,640 --> 01:52:21,040
Speaker 2: got a really small budget, we rehearsed really extensively before

1894
01:52:21,040 --> 01:52:23,040
Speaker 2: we went in. We knew what songs we were going

1895
01:52:23,080 --> 01:52:25,400
Speaker 2: to record, and what key and what the arrangement was.

1896
01:52:25,400 --> 01:52:28,320
Speaker 2: We're just looking for a performance and we went in

1897
01:52:28,360 --> 01:52:31,479
Speaker 2: and named check these engineers before I think it was

1898
01:52:31,520 --> 01:52:37,760
Speaker 2: mostly Pietervince, but Emeric certainly helped was recording as well,

1899
01:52:37,880 --> 01:52:40,559
Speaker 2: and he actually engineered Time of the Season. Jeff Emeric,

1900
01:52:40,880 --> 01:52:42,880
Speaker 2: and of course he worked with the Beatles and later

1901
01:52:42,920 --> 01:52:46,360
Speaker 2: on with Paul McCartney, and I remember it as a

1902
01:52:47,120 --> 01:52:52,120
Speaker 2: really good experience. We recorded quite quickly and I thought

1903
01:52:52,120 --> 01:52:54,680
Speaker 2: it sounded pretty good. The only time there was a

1904
01:52:54,720 --> 01:52:58,120
Speaker 2: little bit of tension was actually on Time of the Season.

1905
01:52:58,240 --> 01:53:00,400
Speaker 2: It was the last song that was written for the album,

1906
01:53:00,400 --> 01:53:02,840
Speaker 2: and it was the last song that was recorded, and

1907
01:53:03,200 --> 01:53:07,439
Speaker 2: we hadn't really fully rehearsed that particular song. It was

1908
01:53:07,520 --> 01:53:11,439
Speaker 2: finished in the morning before we recorded it, and Rod

1909
01:53:11,520 --> 01:53:14,880
Speaker 2: was trying to guide me through the phrasing of the song.

1910
01:53:14,920 --> 01:53:17,040
Speaker 2: And he's in the control room, and of course all

1911
01:53:17,080 --> 01:53:19,240
Speaker 2: the engineers and the band and everyone is in there,

1912
01:53:19,280 --> 01:53:21,960
Speaker 2: and I forgot that I've got the headphones on. He's

1913
01:53:22,000 --> 01:53:25,080
Speaker 2: trying it. No, Colin, can you be more on the

1914
01:53:25,080 --> 01:53:27,679
Speaker 2: beat with that phrase? Can you push this? Can you

1915
01:53:27,760 --> 01:53:29,680
Speaker 2: do it? And in front of me, I've got a

1916
01:53:29,680 --> 01:53:32,240
Speaker 2: big clock. I know we're running out of time and

1917
01:53:32,240 --> 01:53:34,519
Speaker 2: we're running out of money, and there was a red light,

1918
01:53:34,720 --> 01:53:38,880
Speaker 2: big red light underneath the studios live it's running out

1919
01:53:38,880 --> 01:53:42,160
Speaker 2: of time, and I'm getting more and more fraught, and

1920
01:53:42,200 --> 01:53:45,679
Speaker 2: the language between us is getting worse, and I forget,

1921
01:53:45,680 --> 01:53:47,880
Speaker 2: there's all other people, it's not just me and all

1922
01:53:47,880 --> 01:53:52,000
Speaker 2: the other people in there, and I can't really say

1923
01:53:52,000 --> 01:53:55,599
Speaker 2: the language. But it came to the point was listen,

1924
01:53:56,040 --> 01:53:58,840
Speaker 2: if you're so good, you come in here and you

1925
01:53:59,080 --> 01:54:03,280
Speaker 2: sing it. And he said to me, you're the bloody

1926
01:54:03,360 --> 01:54:07,040
Speaker 2: lead singer, your bloody stand there till you get it bloody, right,

1927
01:54:07,120 --> 01:54:10,960
Speaker 2: But it wasn't bloody that he was saying. And it's

1928
01:54:11,040 --> 01:54:13,360
Speaker 2: always made me smile because at the same time as

1929
01:54:13,400 --> 01:54:17,400
Speaker 2: we're having this kind of back and forth, I'm singing

1930
01:54:17,920 --> 01:54:24,840
Speaker 2: is the time of the season for love thing? And

1931
01:54:24,960 --> 01:54:29,160
Speaker 2: in between doing this, it's you bloody get that freak,

1932
01:54:29,240 --> 01:54:31,600
Speaker 2: come on, get it on the beat? Why can't you?

1933
01:54:31,920 --> 01:54:35,360
Speaker 2: And yeah, that was the background for that track. That

1934
01:54:35,520 --> 01:54:38,240
Speaker 2: was the only bit of tension, though otherwise I remember

1935
01:54:38,280 --> 01:54:39,600
Speaker 2: it as great fun.

1936
01:54:48,440 --> 01:54:49,800
Speaker 1: So how does the BM break up?

1937
01:54:52,360 --> 01:54:58,640
Speaker 2: Well, we were by now a single was released and

1938
01:54:58,680 --> 01:55:02,360
Speaker 2: they are in the UK. It was still a singles market.

1939
01:55:02,800 --> 01:55:05,640
Speaker 2: It was moving towards albums, but at this point it

1940
01:55:05,760 --> 01:55:10,960
Speaker 2: was still singles were all important, and CBS released care

1941
01:55:11,000 --> 01:55:14,520
Speaker 2: of Sale forty four, which I thought was probably one

1942
01:55:14,560 --> 01:55:17,720
Speaker 2: of all the most commercial track on the record, but

1943
01:55:18,360 --> 01:55:24,040
Speaker 2: it was nothing happened. A couple of nice reviews, one DJ,

1944
01:55:24,240 --> 01:55:26,560
Speaker 2: quite a famous DJ, really loved the album, a guy

1945
01:55:26,600 --> 01:55:29,720
Speaker 2: called Kenny Everett, who was very successful in the UK.

1946
01:55:30,680 --> 01:55:34,320
Speaker 2: But the media no interest in the album, all, the

1947
01:55:34,360 --> 01:55:38,600
Speaker 2: single at all, and it just seemed as though, you remember,

1948
01:55:38,680 --> 01:55:41,080
Speaker 2: we just had this experience in the Philippines which was

1949
01:55:41,240 --> 01:55:46,960
Speaker 2: really scary. The three non writers were broke by now.

1950
01:55:47,000 --> 01:55:49,720
Speaker 2: We didn't have a manager, we didn't have an agent.

1951
01:55:50,440 --> 01:55:52,520
Speaker 2: I remember we went and talked to an agent and

1952
01:55:52,640 --> 01:55:55,200
Speaker 2: I could tell he wasn't really interested in us at all,

1953
01:55:55,840 --> 01:55:58,720
Speaker 2: and everything seemed to be pointing towards it's time to

1954
01:55:58,760 --> 01:56:03,040
Speaker 2: move on guys. You know, Rod called a meeting at

1955
01:56:03,080 --> 01:56:05,640
Speaker 2: his flat. He shared a flat with Chris White, and

1956
01:56:05,720 --> 01:56:08,600
Speaker 2: the first thing that happened was Paul Atkinson said, guys,

1957
01:56:08,680 --> 01:56:12,440
Speaker 2: I've just got married. I have to get a job.

1958
01:56:12,520 --> 01:56:16,640
Speaker 2: I haven't got any money. And then from memory, Rod said, look,

1959
01:56:16,680 --> 01:56:20,320
Speaker 2: if Paul's leaving, I think we should finish the band.

1960
01:56:21,120 --> 01:56:23,840
Speaker 2: And I've always been embarrassed I didn't say anything. I

1961
01:56:24,840 --> 01:56:27,800
Speaker 2: wish i'd have said something, but I didn't say anything,

1962
01:56:28,280 --> 01:56:29,080
Speaker 2: and that was it.

1963
01:56:29,080 --> 01:56:30,440
Speaker 1: It was hard to feel.

1964
01:56:31,520 --> 01:56:38,760
Speaker 2: I felt deflated, sad, devastated, depressed. I didn't have a plan.

1965
01:56:38,840 --> 01:56:41,920
Speaker 2: B I didn't know what the hell I was going

1966
01:56:42,000 --> 01:56:48,880
Speaker 2: to do. I remember driving home feeling very lonely. Yeah,

1967
01:56:49,040 --> 01:56:50,280
Speaker 2: it was it was over.

1968
01:56:50,560 --> 01:56:53,120
Speaker 1: How long until you end up working in the insurance place?

1969
01:56:54,080 --> 01:56:58,440
Speaker 2: Fairly soon. It was two or three months. I actually

1970
01:56:58,800 --> 01:57:03,720
Speaker 2: heard my parents discussing my future from another room, and

1971
01:57:04,800 --> 01:57:07,120
Speaker 2: you know, they would have I need never have worked.

1972
01:57:07,120 --> 01:57:10,560
Speaker 2: They would have supported me if they possibly could have. Well,

1973
01:57:10,600 --> 01:57:12,480
Speaker 2: I mean they I don't know if they could have really,

1974
01:57:12,520 --> 01:57:15,680
Speaker 2: but I did. My dad say, well, you know, just

1975
01:57:15,680 --> 01:57:17,800
Speaker 2: because he's been in a band, he can't just sit

1976
01:57:17,840 --> 01:57:20,680
Speaker 2: around doing nothing for the rest of his life. He's

1977
01:57:20,680 --> 01:57:24,440
Speaker 2: got to do something. So I started getting on the

1978
01:57:24,440 --> 01:57:28,320
Speaker 2: phone and I literally took the first job I was offered.

1979
01:57:28,640 --> 01:57:30,800
Speaker 2: People always laugh at I ended up in it. I

1980
01:57:30,840 --> 01:57:34,040
Speaker 2: don't know anything about insurance. I ended up in an

1981
01:57:34,040 --> 01:57:38,760
Speaker 2: insurance company. But the first I went to three interviews,

1982
01:57:39,160 --> 01:57:42,280
Speaker 2: and the first one it was for a sales director.

1983
01:57:42,320 --> 01:57:46,200
Speaker 2: I thought this sounds pretty good sales. I could see

1984
01:57:46,240 --> 01:57:48,720
Speaker 2: myself in a slick suit, you know, maybe with a

1985
01:57:48,760 --> 01:57:52,400
Speaker 2: company car, and so a friend of mine drove me up.

1986
01:57:52,480 --> 01:57:54,400
Speaker 2: It's quite a long way to go there. I thought

1987
01:57:54,440 --> 01:57:56,920
Speaker 2: we'd make a day of it, and so I was relaxed.

1988
01:57:57,240 --> 01:57:59,640
Speaker 2: We went to the pub first and had a few beers.

1989
01:58:00,120 --> 01:58:03,440
Speaker 2: So I see, I was very inexperience, in naive. I

1990
01:58:03,480 --> 01:58:05,520
Speaker 2: would have smelled of beer when I went in for

1991
01:58:05,560 --> 01:58:08,120
Speaker 2: this interview. And also I was very keen on making

1992
01:58:08,160 --> 01:58:12,280
Speaker 2: eye contact. And this guy said, you do realize if

1993
01:58:12,320 --> 01:58:15,040
Speaker 2: you get this job, we would have to work together.

1994
01:58:15,120 --> 01:58:18,120
Speaker 2: Obviously he thought I had some kind of you know,

1995
01:58:19,200 --> 01:58:25,040
Speaker 2: mental violent problem or something. And then just as I

1996
01:58:25,120 --> 01:58:28,280
Speaker 2: was getting up to leave, he said, and how would

1997
01:58:28,280 --> 01:58:34,640
Speaker 2: you feel about selling ladies lingerie at retail? I thought

1998
01:58:34,760 --> 01:58:38,280
Speaker 2: I was going to be a director of sales of something,

1999
01:58:38,480 --> 01:58:43,640
Speaker 2: but it was selling ladies underwear into shops. I'm really

2000
01:58:43,680 --> 01:58:46,760
Speaker 2: quite relieved I didn't get that job. So people laugh

2001
01:58:46,800 --> 01:58:48,840
Speaker 2: at I'd got a job in insurance. I could have

2002
01:58:48,920 --> 01:58:52,560
Speaker 2: been selling ladies underwear. You know, I didn't get that.

2003
01:58:53,480 --> 01:58:56,120
Speaker 2: I went for a second interview and the guy, I mean,

2004
01:58:56,280 --> 01:58:58,840
Speaker 2: I was just very naive if some kind of electric

2005
01:58:59,360 --> 01:59:04,240
Speaker 2: putting alarms into factories, And he said, tell me in

2006
01:59:04,280 --> 01:59:08,760
Speaker 2: your own words, why do you want this job? And

2007
01:59:08,840 --> 01:59:11,520
Speaker 2: I said to him, well, I don't really want it.

2008
01:59:11,880 --> 01:59:16,840
Speaker 2: He said, let me stop me there, you won't get

2009
01:59:16,880 --> 01:59:19,800
Speaker 2: this job. But no one's ever said that before. Would

2010
01:59:19,840 --> 01:59:21,800
Speaker 2: you just stay and talk to me for a while.

2011
01:59:21,920 --> 01:59:25,400
Speaker 2: I'm quite interested. So we had a nice chat. I

2012
01:59:25,440 --> 01:59:27,160
Speaker 2: was just being open and honest to him. I didn't

2013
01:59:27,200 --> 01:59:29,360
Speaker 2: want the job. I needed a job. If he said

2014
01:59:29,360 --> 01:59:31,280
Speaker 2: why do you need this job? I would have answered

2015
01:59:31,280 --> 01:59:36,000
Speaker 2: it differently anyway. And then there was a job advertising insurance,

2016
01:59:36,160 --> 01:59:39,320
Speaker 2: and I don't think anybody else wanted to work in insurance.

2017
01:59:39,360 --> 01:59:40,320
Speaker 2: You know they were desperate.

2018
01:59:40,480 --> 01:59:43,960
Speaker 1: Okay, so what is it like? You know this is

2019
01:59:44,080 --> 01:59:47,400
Speaker 1: reference in the documentary You're there, everybody else ses. He

2020
01:59:47,480 --> 01:59:48,960
Speaker 1: is the lead singer of the Zombies.

2021
01:59:49,840 --> 01:59:53,200
Speaker 2: It was a tricky moment the first time I walked

2022
01:59:53,200 --> 01:59:57,880
Speaker 2: into the insurance company, because they did all sort of

2023
01:59:57,920 --> 02:00:00,640
Speaker 2: stare a bit. But there's not only lasted for a

2024
02:00:00,680 --> 02:00:03,680
Speaker 2: day or two. But the real tricky moment for me

2025
02:00:03,800 --> 02:00:05,640
Speaker 2: was the first time I had to answer the phone.

2026
02:00:05,800 --> 02:00:10,200
Speaker 2: I know nothing about insurance, absolutely nothing, and some of

2027
02:00:10,240 --> 02:00:16,320
Speaker 2: the accounts were worth millions. Very quickly I was given

2028
02:00:16,400 --> 02:00:20,840
Speaker 2: the British Army has social clubs and I don't know

2029
02:00:20,880 --> 02:00:25,760
Speaker 2: what it stands for, but everyone knows them as NAFFI.

2030
02:00:26,440 --> 02:00:28,760
Speaker 2: I don't know what that stands for, but it's the

2031
02:00:28,800 --> 02:00:31,920
Speaker 2: social clubs for the British Army. And they had the

2032
02:00:31,960 --> 02:00:37,240
Speaker 2: insurance for it, so I would imagine that's worth millions

2033
02:00:37,280 --> 02:00:41,360
Speaker 2: and millions of pounds. They gave that to me and

2034
02:00:41,400 --> 02:00:43,840
Speaker 2: the women. The woman who phoned me about it, you know,

2035
02:00:43,920 --> 02:00:47,840
Speaker 2: she was saying, using insurance terms, I couldn't tell you

2036
02:00:47,880 --> 02:00:50,840
Speaker 2: what it was all about, and she sucked me out. Really,

2037
02:00:50,920 --> 02:00:54,760
Speaker 2: I tried. I'm quite a good bluffer. I tried to

2038
02:00:55,160 --> 02:00:57,320
Speaker 2: give the impression I knew what I was talking about,

2039
02:00:57,880 --> 02:01:00,280
Speaker 2: but I only lasted about five minutes. She would talk

2040
02:01:00,360 --> 02:01:04,480
Speaker 2: to me after that. But I did handle some big

2041
02:01:04,520 --> 02:01:06,440
Speaker 2: accounts and I did manage to bluff it.

2042
02:01:06,960 --> 02:01:08,480
Speaker 1: How long did you last there?

2043
02:01:09,280 --> 02:01:12,240
Speaker 2: Well, the time of the season started going up the

2044
02:01:12,320 --> 02:01:15,520
Speaker 2: charts after about six months, and so every second call

2045
02:01:15,600 --> 02:01:19,200
Speaker 2: I got was from record companies and producers saying, you

2046
02:01:19,240 --> 02:01:21,760
Speaker 2: want to make records again because no one was interested

2047
02:01:21,760 --> 02:01:24,960
Speaker 2: when the Zombies finished. And I must admit, you know,

2048
02:01:25,040 --> 02:01:27,280
Speaker 2: I wasn't a person who got on the phone and pushed,

2049
02:01:28,720 --> 02:01:30,840
Speaker 2: but then the phone started ringing and a guy called

2050
02:01:30,880 --> 02:01:34,000
Speaker 2: Mike Hurst, who was a very successful producer at the time.

2051
02:01:34,240 --> 02:01:37,080
Speaker 2: He produced the early Cat Stevens records. I'm not sure

2052
02:01:37,120 --> 02:01:42,280
Speaker 2: if there hits in America, but Matthew and Son we.

2053
02:01:42,640 --> 02:01:45,080
Speaker 1: All knew them. They weren't not regular radio hits, but he.

2054
02:01:45,080 --> 02:01:48,080
Speaker 2: Was big well, they were huge hits in the UK.

2055
02:01:48,480 --> 02:01:52,080
Speaker 2: And then he wanted to produce me, and I wasn't

2056
02:01:52,200 --> 02:01:54,840
Speaker 2: I was still devastated about the Zombers. I wasn't sure

2057
02:01:54,880 --> 02:01:57,360
Speaker 2: if I wanted to try again. But he said, look,

2058
02:01:57,360 --> 02:02:00,800
Speaker 2: I tell you what. I'll get Olympics, which is where

2059
02:02:00,800 --> 02:02:04,600
Speaker 2: the Stones used to record in Barns. I'll get that.

2060
02:02:04,680 --> 02:02:08,080
Speaker 2: I'll put some tracks together and you come along after

2061
02:02:08,120 --> 02:02:11,320
Speaker 2: the office and put some vocals on the tracks and

2062
02:02:11,400 --> 02:02:15,280
Speaker 2: let's see what happens. And he got the idea of

2063
02:02:15,320 --> 02:02:19,560
Speaker 2: re recording She's not there. That's bit of a strange idea,

2064
02:02:20,000 --> 02:02:23,040
Speaker 2: but I didn't know if it was going to lead anywhere,

2065
02:02:23,040 --> 02:02:25,640
Speaker 2: so I just said, well, okay, we'll do it. And

2066
02:02:25,960 --> 02:02:28,680
Speaker 2: then somehow I ended up with this name, Neil MacArthur,

2067
02:02:29,120 --> 02:02:31,480
Speaker 2: and I've seen him quite recently and I always thought

2068
02:02:31,520 --> 02:02:33,960
Speaker 2: it was his idea that I was Neil MacArthur. He

2069
02:02:34,040 --> 02:02:37,040
Speaker 2: thought it was my idea. So where that came from

2070
02:02:37,160 --> 02:02:39,840
Speaker 2: I don't know. But I ended up recording under the

2071
02:02:39,880 --> 02:02:43,040
Speaker 2: name of Neil MacArthur, a re recording if She's not there,

2072
02:02:43,560 --> 02:02:47,120
Speaker 2: and it was a hit in the UK and I

2073
02:02:47,200 --> 02:02:50,000
Speaker 2: was back in the music business. No one was more

2074
02:02:50,040 --> 02:02:54,600
Speaker 2: surprised than me or Neil. Neil was surprised too that

2075
02:02:54,680 --> 02:02:55,360
Speaker 2: it had happened.

2076
02:02:56,040 --> 02:03:00,360
Speaker 1: Okay, just go back a step. How do you find

2077
02:03:00,400 --> 02:03:02,200
Speaker 1: out the time of the season is catching on?

2078
02:03:03,280 --> 02:03:06,440
Speaker 2: People started calling me. I didn't believe them to start with.

2079
02:03:07,560 --> 02:03:13,120
Speaker 2: I thought the Zombies was over. I think maybe Paul

2080
02:03:13,160 --> 02:03:18,240
Speaker 2: Atkinson was calling me some people in America, because you know,

2081
02:03:18,360 --> 02:03:21,880
Speaker 2: it went through the charts very slowly, and so it

2082
02:03:21,960 --> 02:03:24,920
Speaker 2: was sort of you know what, Timember the Seasons come

2083
02:03:24,960 --> 02:03:28,960
Speaker 2: into the top one hundred in the state, No, can't

2084
02:03:29,000 --> 02:03:32,640
Speaker 2: have it came in and then over a period of weeks,

2085
02:03:32,680 --> 02:03:35,760
Speaker 2: you know, it's eighty sixty five and you're sort of

2086
02:03:35,840 --> 02:03:38,240
Speaker 2: dreading the next phone call it's going to have gone down.

2087
02:03:39,520 --> 02:03:41,960
Speaker 2: But in cash Box it actually went to number one.

2088
02:03:42,720 --> 02:03:46,240
Speaker 1: It was gigantic. There was no thought of reforming the band.

2089
02:03:46,840 --> 02:03:53,880
Speaker 2: Not one iota, never a conversation. Nothing. Mostly I think

2090
02:03:53,880 --> 02:04:01,600
Speaker 2: because Rod and Chris were really very involved in Argent

2091
02:04:02,040 --> 02:04:02,680
Speaker 2: at that point.

2092
02:04:02,880 --> 02:04:05,800
Speaker 1: So how did you feel that they restarted without you?

2093
02:04:06,720 --> 02:04:12,520
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, what can you say? I mean, it

2094
02:04:12,600 --> 02:04:16,280
Speaker 2: was a strange feeling. It was a strange feeling. I

2095
02:04:16,440 --> 02:04:19,400
Speaker 2: was just a fan of Argent, you know. I thought

2096
02:04:19,560 --> 02:04:23,120
Speaker 2: Argent were incredible. I used to pay for tickets to

2097
02:04:23,160 --> 02:04:25,760
Speaker 2: go and see them. I just thought they were fantastic

2098
02:04:25,840 --> 02:04:27,760
Speaker 2: and I knew them. I went to some of their

2099
02:04:27,920 --> 02:04:31,760
Speaker 2: very early rehearsals, so I knew they were going to

2100
02:04:31,800 --> 02:04:32,840
Speaker 2: be good. I really did.

2101
02:04:32,960 --> 02:04:34,680
Speaker 1: How did they find Russ Ballen?

2102
02:04:35,520 --> 02:04:40,520
Speaker 2: Well, they let me get this right. They went to

2103
02:04:40,560 --> 02:04:44,320
Speaker 2: see Unit four plus two because they were after Bob Henryt,

2104
02:04:44,360 --> 02:04:48,480
Speaker 2: who was the drummer in Unit four plus two. And

2105
02:04:48,520 --> 02:04:51,280
Speaker 2: it's really funny because they went to see them play

2106
02:04:51,440 --> 02:04:53,960
Speaker 2: thinking they could creep in at the back and no

2107
02:04:54,040 --> 02:04:57,720
Speaker 2: one would see them. When there was no one there

2108
02:04:57,760 --> 02:05:00,640
Speaker 2: when they got, you know, this very small so they

2109
02:05:00,720 --> 02:05:03,600
Speaker 2: walked in and it was really obvious that they were

2110
02:05:03,640 --> 02:05:06,480
Speaker 2: there and they'd gone to see Bob Henritt. And I

2111
02:05:06,520 --> 02:05:08,960
Speaker 2: think that they Russ Ballard was in the band as

2112
02:05:08,960 --> 02:05:12,200
Speaker 2: well at that point, and I think they were very

2113
02:05:12,320 --> 02:05:14,840
Speaker 2: impressed with Russ and I think maybe, I mean, this

2114
02:05:14,880 --> 02:05:20,280
Speaker 2: is a little bit outside of my knowledge. Really it's

2115
02:05:20,320 --> 02:05:23,480
Speaker 2: been explained to me, but I maybe don't remember correctly.

2116
02:05:23,520 --> 02:05:25,840
Speaker 2: But either I think it was a bit of both.

2117
02:05:25,920 --> 02:05:30,120
Speaker 2: They thought Buss Ballard was fabulous, which he is, and

2118
02:05:30,200 --> 02:05:34,240
Speaker 2: also I think Bob Henritt recommended him as well. And

2119
02:05:35,320 --> 02:05:39,920
Speaker 2: what a what a great band. They were fabulous, great band.

2120
02:05:40,560 --> 02:05:43,920
Speaker 1: How do you end up playing with Alan Parsons?

2121
02:05:44,560 --> 02:05:48,680
Speaker 2: Well, Alan was really he was an assistant engineer at

2122
02:05:48,680 --> 02:05:52,040
Speaker 2: Abbey Road when we were recording Odyssey and Oracle, and

2123
02:05:53,400 --> 02:05:55,839
Speaker 2: I spoke to him a bit. I mean, I certainly

2124
02:05:56,640 --> 02:06:00,640
Speaker 2: remember him from then, and also he lived near me.

2125
02:06:00,760 --> 02:06:04,120
Speaker 2: I bought my first flat in West Hampstead and I

2126
02:06:04,240 --> 02:06:06,520
Speaker 2: used to see him in Hampstead Village, which is in

2127
02:06:06,680 --> 02:06:09,440
Speaker 2: northwest London on a Saturday morning. He used to drink

2128
02:06:09,440 --> 02:06:11,280
Speaker 2: in a pub called the Flask, and I used to

2129
02:06:11,360 --> 02:06:14,839
Speaker 2: drink in this sometimes. So we knew one another vaguely,

2130
02:06:17,320 --> 02:06:19,880
Speaker 2: and that's that's basically it. I think I might have

2131
02:06:20,200 --> 02:06:24,240
Speaker 2: asked him about producing me as well at one point,

2132
02:06:24,360 --> 02:06:28,040
Speaker 2: but by then he'd got the project going and so

2133
02:06:28,560 --> 02:06:32,040
Speaker 2: he wasn't really producing other people. And I also knew

2134
02:06:32,160 --> 02:06:36,240
Speaker 2: Eric Wilson vaguely as well. He'd come to some Zombie

2135
02:06:36,280 --> 02:06:40,080
Speaker 2: gigs and they just called me up and said, I

2136
02:06:40,080 --> 02:06:41,920
Speaker 2: think the first one I did with that was that

2137
02:06:42,000 --> 02:06:44,880
Speaker 2: Eagle will Rise Again. And to start with, they used

2138
02:06:44,880 --> 02:06:46,960
Speaker 2: to give me about a week's notice. They would send

2139
02:06:46,960 --> 02:06:52,760
Speaker 2: me an assetate in those days and they'd give me

2140
02:06:52,800 --> 02:06:56,200
Speaker 2: a week to learn the song, so Eagle will Rise Again.

2141
02:06:56,280 --> 02:07:00,240
Speaker 2: I got a week old and wise I got a week.

2142
02:07:00,680 --> 02:07:02,960
Speaker 2: But then the later ones they would phone me up

2143
02:07:03,000 --> 02:07:05,919
Speaker 2: and say, we've got this song. Come down to the studio.

2144
02:07:06,400 --> 02:07:09,240
Speaker 2: We'll play it through to you learn it. And I

2145
02:07:09,280 --> 02:07:11,640
Speaker 2: didn't say learn it in the stupid That's what it was,

2146
02:07:11,960 --> 02:07:14,680
Speaker 2: and we'll have a go at it. And that was

2147
02:07:14,720 --> 02:07:17,600
Speaker 2: a bit more challenging. You know, you'd learn it in

2148
02:07:17,640 --> 02:07:19,920
Speaker 2: front of Alan and Eric and you and you have

2149
02:07:20,040 --> 02:07:24,240
Speaker 2: to record it. But there, I mean, those project albums

2150
02:07:24,280 --> 02:07:29,400
Speaker 2: are wonderful, great songs because Alan's a magical producer as well.

2151
02:07:29,480 --> 02:07:29,760
Speaker 1: It was.

2152
02:07:29,800 --> 02:07:31,200
Speaker 2: It was a wonderful experience.

2153
02:07:31,400 --> 02:07:35,840
Speaker 1: So how do you ultimately reform the Zombies again?

2154
02:07:36,280 --> 02:07:39,040
Speaker 2: If Rod was here, he would tell you a slightly

2155
02:07:39,080 --> 02:07:43,080
Speaker 2: different story, but I'll tell you the truth. I was.

2156
02:07:43,200 --> 02:07:46,480
Speaker 2: I had a solo band don Airy, who's the keyboard

2157
02:07:46,520 --> 02:07:52,360
Speaker 2: player in Deep Purple. He'd already played in a lot

2158
02:07:52,400 --> 02:07:55,720
Speaker 2: of big heavy metal bands, and I'd met him, I

2159
02:07:55,760 --> 02:07:59,760
Speaker 2: knew him vaguely, and he took it upon himself to

2160
02:08:00,040 --> 02:08:03,040
Speaker 2: you let me know that I should be out playing live.

2161
02:08:03,480 --> 02:08:06,880
Speaker 2: He started calling me. Must have called me five or

2162
02:08:06,920 --> 02:08:09,760
Speaker 2: six times. You should be playing, like you've got to

2163
02:08:09,800 --> 02:08:12,839
Speaker 2: get out playing. But at this point I hadn't played

2164
02:08:12,880 --> 02:08:16,080
Speaker 2: for twenty something years. I've made lots of records, some

2165
02:08:16,160 --> 02:08:20,720
Speaker 2: had been hits. I had a little bit of success.

2166
02:08:20,920 --> 02:08:23,480
Speaker 2: I probably was more scared than anything I could. You

2167
02:08:23,480 --> 02:08:26,240
Speaker 2: could say anxious if you like, but scared would probably

2168
02:08:26,880 --> 02:08:29,560
Speaker 2: fit it better. And in those days I used to

2169
02:08:29,680 --> 02:08:31,960
Speaker 2: like to have a couple of beers in the evening

2170
02:08:32,720 --> 02:08:36,360
Speaker 2: quite I liked Stellar Artois quite strong. And he just

2171
02:08:36,520 --> 02:08:39,080
Speaker 2: picked the right moment. The fifth or sixth phone call,

2172
02:08:39,440 --> 02:08:43,240
Speaker 2: I was on my second Stellar Artois and he said,

2173
02:08:43,280 --> 02:08:48,360
Speaker 2: you should be out playing it. Okay, I will, And

2174
02:08:48,400 --> 02:08:50,440
Speaker 2: he said, right, you don't have to do anything. I'll

2175
02:08:50,440 --> 02:08:53,200
Speaker 2: put a band together, I'll rehearse them, just come up

2176
02:08:53,240 --> 02:08:55,320
Speaker 2: and we'll run through and then we'll do a gig.

2177
02:08:55,440 --> 02:08:59,200
Speaker 2: And that's what we did, and he got a great

2178
02:08:59,240 --> 02:09:03,880
Speaker 2: band together, all really really good players, and it held

2179
02:09:03,920 --> 02:09:06,760
Speaker 2: together for quite a time, but one by one they

2180
02:09:06,840 --> 02:09:10,680
Speaker 2: drifted off, and eventually don Airy drifted off, and he

2181
02:09:10,720 --> 02:09:12,840
Speaker 2: played with lots of good people, but for the last

2182
02:09:12,880 --> 02:09:15,680
Speaker 2: I think twenty years, has been with Deep Purple. And

2183
02:09:15,720 --> 02:09:19,280
Speaker 2: I got another keyboard player. But this keyboard player good player,

2184
02:09:19,520 --> 02:09:22,880
Speaker 2: but he had an achilles heel in that he wrote

2185
02:09:22,880 --> 02:09:26,560
Speaker 2: his own songs, and if anyone asked him to play

2186
02:09:26,800 --> 02:09:31,920
Speaker 2: at the local coffee shop but his own songs, he

2187
02:09:31,960 --> 02:09:34,440
Speaker 2: would be off. And so I would turn up to

2188
02:09:34,800 --> 02:09:37,680
Speaker 2: a date and I didn't have a keyboard player. And

2189
02:09:37,720 --> 02:09:40,920
Speaker 2: the last time this happened, it happened. I mean, there's

2190
02:09:40,960 --> 02:09:44,000
Speaker 2: no warning. He just would go, and we managed to

2191
02:09:44,040 --> 02:09:47,600
Speaker 2: scramble some guy in who didn't know me and didn't

2192
02:09:47,640 --> 02:09:52,200
Speaker 2: know any of my songs. I don't know how he

2193
02:09:52,280 --> 02:09:55,520
Speaker 2: got through the evening. And this I had new guys

2194
02:09:55,560 --> 02:10:00,360
Speaker 2: and everything. I had my regular bass player, our mother

2195
02:10:00,400 --> 02:10:03,440
Speaker 2: was on his second gig, and the guitarist was on

2196
02:10:03,480 --> 02:10:06,080
Speaker 2: his second gig, and the keyboard player didn't know any

2197
02:10:06,120 --> 02:10:09,040
Speaker 2: of the songs at all. And I thought I was

2198
02:10:09,080 --> 02:10:13,520
Speaker 2: going to have heart failure on this show. I thought

2199
02:10:13,840 --> 02:10:15,960
Speaker 2: I'm going to die if I go on like this.

2200
02:10:16,760 --> 02:10:20,080
Speaker 2: And I phoned Rod. I didn't think he would be interested.

2201
02:10:20,120 --> 02:10:23,360
Speaker 2: I really didn't because he was a very successful producer

2202
02:10:24,480 --> 02:10:28,200
Speaker 2: and he hadn't played live that much. And I said, Rod,

2203
02:10:28,200 --> 02:10:30,960
Speaker 2: I've got six dates left on this tour. It's driving

2204
02:10:30,960 --> 02:10:33,960
Speaker 2: me nuts. You know, this guy just keeps not showing up.

2205
02:10:34,840 --> 02:10:37,360
Speaker 2: Would you help me out and play these six dates?

2206
02:10:37,440 --> 02:10:40,920
Speaker 2: And I was really surprised, but blessed him. He said, Look,

2207
02:10:42,040 --> 02:10:44,320
Speaker 2: of course I'll help you out in the six dates,

2208
02:10:44,400 --> 02:10:46,040
Speaker 2: but I don't want to go back on the road

2209
02:10:46,080 --> 02:10:49,240
Speaker 2: full time, but I will play the six dates. And

2210
02:10:49,280 --> 02:10:51,760
Speaker 2: he did, and it was magical and he loved it,

2211
02:10:52,520 --> 02:10:55,440
Speaker 2: and those six dates developed into twenty five years.

2212
02:10:55,400 --> 02:10:59,720
Speaker 1: Okay, how hard was it for you to call him?

2213
02:11:00,600 --> 02:11:06,280
Speaker 2: Very hard? Very hard? Well, I think I've always been

2214
02:11:06,280 --> 02:11:09,560
Speaker 2: a bit in aura of Rod. He's a world class musician.

2215
02:11:10,400 --> 02:11:16,560
Speaker 2: And yeah, I did find it difficult. It was because

2216
02:11:16,600 --> 02:11:19,200
Speaker 2: I didn't have a choice, and also I didn't think

2217
02:11:19,240 --> 02:11:22,800
Speaker 2: he'd want to do it either, honestly, didn't think he wanted.

2218
02:11:22,880 --> 02:11:24,960
Speaker 1: How often did you have contact with him in the

2219
02:11:25,720 --> 02:11:26,560
Speaker 1: ensuing years.

2220
02:11:26,960 --> 02:11:29,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, quite a lot, and I would talk to him

2221
02:11:29,320 --> 02:11:31,120
Speaker 2: four or five times a year something like that, but

2222
02:11:31,200 --> 02:11:37,680
Speaker 2: not very regularly, so it was it was difficult, and

2223
02:11:37,760 --> 02:11:39,800
Speaker 2: partly because I didn't think he'd want to do it,

2224
02:11:41,200 --> 02:11:44,760
Speaker 2: but he did, and it was It was great for

2225
02:11:44,840 --> 02:11:47,839
Speaker 2: both of us. None of us were expecting what happened,

2226
02:11:48,120 --> 02:11:52,160
Speaker 2: the second incarnation of the Zombies. Who would have thought that.

2227
02:11:52,560 --> 02:11:55,720
Speaker 2: We thought the Zombies finished in nineteen sixty seven, and

2228
02:11:55,760 --> 02:11:59,320
Speaker 2: then when we started playing, people get asking for zombie tinges.

2229
02:11:59,600 --> 02:12:03,760
Speaker 2: When after those six dates we continued, but we played

2230
02:12:03,840 --> 02:12:07,360
Speaker 2: hardly any zombie songs. I'd had a few hits, He'd

2231
02:12:07,360 --> 02:12:11,240
Speaker 2: had a few hits. We played solo stuff, and people

2232
02:12:11,360 --> 02:12:14,960
Speaker 2: kept asking for zombie tunes. But Rob was adamant we

2233
02:12:15,000 --> 02:12:17,920
Speaker 2: wouldn't call the band the Zombies for like six or

2234
02:12:17,960 --> 02:12:21,200
Speaker 2: seven years. We're not the zombies. We can't call ourselves

2235
02:12:21,240 --> 02:12:25,640
Speaker 2: the zombies. I said, okay, But in the end we

2236
02:12:25,640 --> 02:12:29,560
Speaker 2: were playing twenty zombie tunes to an audience that had

2237
02:12:29,600 --> 02:12:32,720
Speaker 2: come to hear the Zombies. And then in one day

2238
02:12:33,040 --> 02:12:36,280
Speaker 2: he was talking about the artwork on the next album

2239
02:12:36,640 --> 02:12:39,880
Speaker 2: and he said, I hope we won't mind me having

2240
02:12:39,880 --> 02:12:42,360
Speaker 2: a bit of a chuckle. But it was quite funny

2241
02:12:42,360 --> 02:12:45,080
Speaker 2: because he sort of said I had a dream and

2242
02:12:44,640 --> 02:12:47,840
Speaker 2: I was thinking about that famous speech, and I had

2243
02:12:47,840 --> 02:12:50,640
Speaker 2: a dream and it was the artwork for the album

2244
02:12:50,880 --> 02:12:55,360
Speaker 2: and it was a white dove doing something and the zombies,

2245
02:12:55,400 --> 02:12:58,400
Speaker 2: and I thought, did he just say the zombies? I

2246
02:12:58,440 --> 02:13:01,160
Speaker 2: thought we weren't using them the zombies, and I didn't

2247
02:13:01,200 --> 02:13:04,600
Speaker 2: say anything, And from then on we were the zombies.

2248
02:13:04,760 --> 02:13:08,640
Speaker 2: We had to have a sit down with Rod Argent,

2249
02:13:09,000 --> 02:13:11,960
Speaker 2: with Chris White and Hugh Grundy and have a chat

2250
02:13:11,960 --> 02:13:14,240
Speaker 2: with them about it, and they were okay. I mean

2251
02:13:14,880 --> 02:13:16,760
Speaker 2: I don't think they were that keen to start with,

2252
02:13:16,840 --> 02:13:20,280
Speaker 2: but that they were okay in the end. And then

2253
02:13:21,160 --> 02:13:24,640
Speaker 2: we were the zombies again, the second incarnation of the Zombies.

2254
02:13:24,680 --> 02:13:28,760
Speaker 1: Well, of course, it's been an amazing success live shows,

2255
02:13:29,000 --> 02:13:31,760
Speaker 1: getting inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

2256
02:13:32,120 --> 02:13:36,280
Speaker 1: But you're in Los Angeles right now promoting the new

2257
02:13:36,520 --> 02:13:40,320
Speaker 1: Zombies documentary Hung Up on a Dream. How did that

2258
02:13:40,440 --> 02:13:40,960
Speaker 1: come to be?

2259
02:13:42,680 --> 02:13:44,840
Speaker 2: Well, I think a lot of it was down to

2260
02:13:44,960 --> 02:13:48,960
Speaker 2: our management company, of the Rocks. They felt that we

2261
02:13:49,080 --> 02:13:51,600
Speaker 2: had a story to tell and it would be great

2262
02:13:51,640 --> 02:13:55,520
Speaker 2: to do a documentary, and through mutual friends, they were

2263
02:13:55,560 --> 02:14:03,120
Speaker 2: introduced to Robert who had already made movies in Hollywood scripted,

2264
02:14:03,240 --> 02:14:08,720
Speaker 2: fully funded movies. But he's also a musician, and I

2265
02:14:08,760 --> 02:14:12,160
Speaker 2: think that really helped. We were introduced to him on

2266
02:14:12,200 --> 02:14:18,400
Speaker 2: a zoom call. He'd made movies, he was a musician

2267
02:14:18,440 --> 02:14:21,840
Speaker 2: in his own right, and he came over as a

2268
02:14:21,840 --> 02:14:24,320
Speaker 2: genuine fan of the Zombies, and he won us over

2269
02:14:24,480 --> 02:14:30,200
Speaker 2: very quickly. So it came about, yes, just through people talking,

2270
02:14:30,240 --> 02:14:33,560
Speaker 2: you know, I management company talking to a middleman who

2271
02:14:34,800 --> 02:14:39,320
Speaker 2: who knew Robert, and then he made it very easy

2272
02:14:39,360 --> 02:14:41,280
Speaker 2: for us. We would just turn up and talk.

2273
02:14:42,320 --> 02:14:43,960
Speaker 1: How long has this been in production?

2274
02:14:46,040 --> 02:14:48,560
Speaker 2: Well, it probably started a couple of years ago, I think,

2275
02:14:50,520 --> 02:14:55,080
Speaker 2: but it's been it kept being re edited, but I

2276
02:14:55,080 --> 02:14:58,960
Speaker 2: mean a nearly final version has probably been around for

2277
02:14:59,720 --> 02:15:03,080
Speaker 2: nine months or so. I would have thought, and are

2278
02:15:03,080 --> 02:15:07,000
Speaker 2: you happy with it? I think it's great. I think

2279
02:15:07,000 --> 02:15:10,400
Speaker 2: it's really really good. I haven't seen the final cut

2280
02:15:10,520 --> 02:15:13,560
Speaker 2: that there are some I think, some subtle changes, but

2281
02:15:13,600 --> 02:15:15,960
Speaker 2: I'm going to see it tonight because I'm going to

2282
02:15:16,080 --> 02:15:20,240
Speaker 2: be part of a Q and A afterwards, and I thought,

2283
02:15:20,280 --> 02:15:22,760
Speaker 2: you know, I really ought to see it again because

2284
02:15:23,480 --> 02:15:26,600
Speaker 2: one or two questions have come up, real subtle things.

2285
02:15:26,680 --> 02:15:32,080
Speaker 2: I haven't seen it in suntme, but my experience in

2286
02:15:32,120 --> 02:15:34,720
Speaker 2: the insurance office has really helped me, you know, like

2287
02:15:34,880 --> 02:15:37,440
Speaker 2: when I learned to bluff, and so I've managed to

2288
02:15:37,600 --> 02:15:42,160
Speaker 2: bluff my way through it because one or two things

2289
02:15:42,160 --> 02:15:47,240
Speaker 2: have come up and I've thought I need to see

2290
02:15:47,280 --> 02:15:50,720
Speaker 2: it again. So I'm going tonight. I'm really excited about it.

2291
02:15:51,200 --> 02:15:52,280
Speaker 2: I'm going to see it tonight.

2292
02:15:53,000 --> 02:15:55,720
Speaker 1: Well, I think you know the story well enough you

2293
02:15:56,120 --> 02:16:00,440
Speaker 1: won't have to bluff, and you've certainly been very open

2294
02:16:00,480 --> 02:16:04,000
Speaker 1: and honest. You know, Listen, you're very convivial. You tell

2295
02:16:04,000 --> 02:16:07,120
Speaker 1: a great story. I could talk to you forever, but

2296
02:16:07,240 --> 02:16:09,240
Speaker 1: I think we've come to the end of the feeling

2297
02:16:09,280 --> 02:16:11,960
Speaker 1: we've known. Colin. I want to thank you so much

2298
02:16:12,000 --> 02:16:13,879
Speaker 1: for taking this time with my audience.

2299
02:16:14,640 --> 02:16:16,960
Speaker 2: Well, thanks so much for having me on the show.

2300
02:16:17,120 --> 02:16:21,320
Speaker 2: I mean, I've for a long time I'd loved to

2301
02:16:21,360 --> 02:16:24,840
Speaker 2: have been on this show. I say, you know, I'm

2302
02:16:24,880 --> 02:16:27,640
Speaker 2: just really happy to have been. I've really enjoyed having

2303
02:16:27,640 --> 02:16:28,200
Speaker 2: a chat.

2304
02:16:28,560 --> 02:16:31,720
Speaker 1: Well, you know, as I said earlier, and I've experienced.

2305
02:16:31,840 --> 02:16:36,320
Speaker 1: You have no idea how big the zombies were. You're saying, Oh,

2306
02:16:36,400 --> 02:16:38,640
Speaker 1: I did it for a couple of years and then

2307
02:16:38,680 --> 02:16:43,080
Speaker 1: the band fell apart. The zombies were as big as

2308
02:16:43,200 --> 02:16:46,240
Speaker 1: any of the other acts, and it sounded unique. It

2309
02:16:46,280 --> 02:16:49,359
Speaker 1: had this darkness where some of the other like animals

2310
02:16:49,440 --> 02:16:52,400
Speaker 1: records like don't Bring Me Down, We're dark, but they

2311
02:16:52,440 --> 02:16:56,200
Speaker 1: had a very period sound. They were rough, where the

2312
02:16:56,320 --> 02:17:01,040
Speaker 1: zombies songs were not rough. They were as they sueing generous.

2313
02:17:01,120 --> 02:17:04,960
Speaker 1: There was nothing else like them. You know, she's not there,

2314
02:17:05,040 --> 02:17:06,640
Speaker 1: tell her not that. Of course, at the time of

2315
02:17:06,680 --> 02:17:09,039
Speaker 1: the season, and there was no more zombies. I mean

2316
02:17:09,280 --> 02:17:12,320
Speaker 1: the average person, it was like, yeah they were. They

2317
02:17:12,320 --> 02:17:15,520
Speaker 1: were just like you know, nobody is the Beatles and

2318
02:17:15,560 --> 02:17:18,960
Speaker 1: also the Stones. But in the next year down zombies

2319
02:17:19,040 --> 02:17:20,760
Speaker 1: were as big as anybody.

2320
02:17:21,720 --> 02:17:24,240
Speaker 2: I know, it's extraordinary, but if you had any one

2321
02:17:24,280 --> 02:17:26,920
Speaker 2: of the zombies in here, I don't think we've ever

2322
02:17:27,000 --> 02:17:30,880
Speaker 2: been able to understand that. And it's a bit late

2323
02:17:30,879 --> 02:17:32,600
Speaker 2: in the day now for it to get through. But

2324
02:17:32,920 --> 02:17:34,840
Speaker 2: it's very kind if you just say that, and I'm

2325
02:17:35,000 --> 02:17:38,360
Speaker 2: thrilled that you see it that way. But we we

2326
02:17:38,840 --> 02:17:42,080
Speaker 2: I don't know, we just think we're just young kids

2327
02:17:42,080 --> 02:17:43,000
Speaker 2: from San Jobn's.

2328
02:17:43,040 --> 02:17:47,520
Speaker 1: Really there is a magic in these records, and just

2329
02:17:47,560 --> 02:17:51,440
Speaker 1: like anything magical, you know, especially Yeah, they're cut really quickly,

2330
02:17:52,440 --> 02:17:56,199
Speaker 1: and you know, I went to see Journey the pr person.

2331
02:17:56,240 --> 02:17:57,600
Speaker 1: We were having dinners, so I gotta go to the

2332
02:17:57,640 --> 02:18:00,440
Speaker 1: Hollywood Bowl and they have this leads sing from the

2333
02:18:00,480 --> 02:18:05,080
Speaker 1: Philippines ironically, and I'm there and the whole audience is

2334
02:18:05,120 --> 02:18:07,240
Speaker 1: singing so well, you know, it's not Steve Perry, but

2335
02:18:07,280 --> 02:18:10,960
Speaker 1: the songs are so iconic the audience owns them. Same

2336
02:18:11,000 --> 02:18:15,200
Speaker 1: thing with the zombies. The audience now owns those records.

2337
02:18:15,480 --> 02:18:20,080
Speaker 1: Those records are forever, okay, irrelevant whether they know a

2338
02:18:20,080 --> 02:18:23,720
Speaker 1: single person in the band or the story. They remember

2339
02:18:23,720 --> 02:18:25,840
Speaker 1: where they were and you know, time of the season

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02:18:26,879 --> 02:18:29,280
Speaker 1: to use a you know there's an evergreen never dies,

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02:18:29,800 --> 02:18:32,720
Speaker 1: you know, it just keeps up. Okay, I'm getting the

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02:18:32,800 --> 02:18:36,160
Speaker 1: signal you have to move on to your next gig. Yes,

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Speaker 1: So until next time. This is Bob left Sex