1 00:00:15,436 --> 00:00:23,116 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hey everyone, this is justin Richmond. We were all 2 00:00:23,156 --> 00:00:25,636 Speaker 1: set to bring you a conversation between Rick Rubin and 3 00:00:25,716 --> 00:00:27,916 Speaker 1: Rizzard today that we tapped a couple of weeks ago, 4 00:00:29,116 --> 00:00:32,996 Speaker 1: but in light of the heaviness of the last week 5 00:00:33,516 --> 00:00:36,636 Speaker 1: and what's going on this week, we figured it'd be 6 00:00:36,636 --> 00:00:40,436 Speaker 1: best to hold that at least until next week. The 7 00:00:40,556 --> 00:00:44,516 Speaker 1: music industry is doing something called blackout Tuesday, where a 8 00:00:44,516 --> 00:00:47,116 Speaker 1: lot of people are refusing to do business as a 9 00:00:47,196 --> 00:00:50,876 Speaker 1: symbol of not wanting to go on with business as usual. 10 00:00:51,276 --> 00:00:55,876 Speaker 1: And even though it's a podcast, we're only really music adjacent. 11 00:00:56,396 --> 00:00:58,436 Speaker 1: Ricks involved in the music industry of course, and the 12 00:00:58,516 --> 00:01:01,476 Speaker 1: artists we have on or involved, and we just figured 13 00:01:02,156 --> 00:01:04,276 Speaker 1: it'd be best to take a week off and do 14 00:01:04,436 --> 00:01:09,236 Speaker 1: some deeper thinking. We did think instead of just not 15 00:01:09,356 --> 00:01:13,676 Speaker 1: running something, we would bring you something from our other host, 16 00:01:13,796 --> 00:01:17,876 Speaker 1: Malcolm Gladwell, who's written about policing a lot throughout his career, 17 00:01:18,156 --> 00:01:21,756 Speaker 1: and he had a chapter in his book, David and 18 00:01:21,796 --> 00:01:24,716 Speaker 1: Goliath that he really wanted to share with you guys, 19 00:01:25,036 --> 00:01:28,356 Speaker 1: and we hope that you get a chance to listen 20 00:01:28,596 --> 00:01:33,196 Speaker 1: and makes you think whatever you think you know that 21 00:01:33,276 --> 00:01:37,516 Speaker 1: it just maybe adds to the dialogue that's going on 22 00:01:37,596 --> 00:01:41,236 Speaker 1: right now, and we'll be back with the Rizzard from 23 00:01:41,276 --> 00:01:44,436 Speaker 1: Mutang next week talking to Rick and we hope you 24 00:01:44,476 --> 00:01:46,836 Speaker 1: guys all stay safe in the meantime, and we appreciate 25 00:01:46,876 --> 00:01:51,676 Speaker 1: you guys, and yeah, we'll be back next week. Enjoy 26 00:01:51,836 --> 00:01:56,236 Speaker 1: this chapter from Malcolm's book, David and Goliath. Here's Malcolm. 27 00:01:56,716 --> 00:02:00,636 Speaker 1: Hello there, Malcolm Gladwell here. Many people have spoken up 28 00:02:00,676 --> 00:02:03,956 Speaker 1: over the last few days, very eloquently about the tragic 29 00:02:03,996 --> 00:02:06,196 Speaker 1: death of George Floyd at the hands of a police 30 00:02:06,196 --> 00:02:09,996 Speaker 1: officer in Minneapolis. It says something about the country we 31 00:02:10,036 --> 00:02:12,436 Speaker 1: live in with the most powerful things I've heard of 32 00:02:12,476 --> 00:02:15,436 Speaker 1: come from mayors and preachers and rappers and talk show 33 00:02:15,476 --> 00:02:19,316 Speaker 1: hosts and countless ordinary people on Twitter while the White 34 00:02:19,316 --> 00:02:22,196 Speaker 1: House turned off its lights and the President hid in 35 00:02:22,236 --> 00:02:27,996 Speaker 1: an underground bunker. Sometimes words fail me. As those of 36 00:02:28,036 --> 00:02:30,236 Speaker 1: you who have followed my career now, I've been writing 37 00:02:30,236 --> 00:02:32,916 Speaker 1: and thinking about race and policing for a very long time. 38 00:02:33,316 --> 00:02:36,156 Speaker 1: The final chapter of my second book, Blink, was about 39 00:02:36,156 --> 00:02:38,956 Speaker 1: the forty one shots fired at a young African immigrant 40 00:02:39,276 --> 00:02:42,636 Speaker 1: named Amadu Diallo by New York City police officers in 41 00:02:42,716 --> 00:02:46,116 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety nine. As he stood on his front porch 42 00:02:46,836 --> 00:02:48,956 Speaker 1: and reached for his wallet to show them his ID. 43 00:02:50,316 --> 00:02:53,156 Speaker 1: My latest book, Talking to Strangers, starts and ends with 44 00:02:53,196 --> 00:02:57,036 Speaker 1: the tragic encounter between a young African American woman, Sandra Bland, 45 00:02:57,436 --> 00:03:00,836 Speaker 1: and a highway patrolman on the streets of Prairie View, Texas. 46 00:03:01,676 --> 00:03:03,596 Speaker 1: So I wanted to add my voice to the chorus 47 00:03:04,156 --> 00:03:06,796 Speaker 1: and share some of that work. And what I decided 48 00:03:06,796 --> 00:03:09,196 Speaker 1: on is a portion of the audiobook version of I 49 00:03:09,196 --> 00:03:12,796 Speaker 1: booked David and Goliath. It was published in twenty thirteen, 50 00:03:13,556 --> 00:03:15,716 Speaker 1: and this chapter is about a riot that took place 51 00:03:15,756 --> 00:03:19,836 Speaker 1: in Belfast, in Northern Ireland. It's about a situation from 52 00:03:20,036 --> 00:03:23,436 Speaker 1: miles away and many years ago, and about the divisions 53 00:03:23,476 --> 00:03:26,396 Speaker 1: of religion and class, and not the divisions of race. 54 00:03:27,316 --> 00:03:29,516 Speaker 1: But sometimes I think it's useful to take a step 55 00:03:29,556 --> 00:03:34,116 Speaker 1: back and consider policing in a broader context. What happened 56 00:03:34,276 --> 00:03:36,996 Speaker 1: in Northern Ireland fifty years ago and what is happening 57 00:03:37,036 --> 00:03:39,196 Speaker 1: now on the streets of the United States are not 58 00:03:39,276 --> 00:03:43,276 Speaker 1: all that different. The core question in both is if 59 00:03:43,356 --> 00:03:46,436 Speaker 1: you have power, what does it mean to use it wisely? 60 00:03:47,316 --> 00:03:51,196 Speaker 1: And what are the consequences if you don't. So here 61 00:03:51,276 --> 00:03:55,196 Speaker 1: we go from David and Goliathe Chapter seven, Rosemary Lawler. 62 00:03:56,396 --> 00:03:59,996 Speaker 1: When the troubles began in Northern Ireland. Rosemary Lawler was 63 00:03:59,996 --> 00:04:03,036 Speaker 1: a newly wed. She and her husband had just bought 64 00:04:03,076 --> 00:04:06,676 Speaker 1: a house in Belfast. They had a baby. It was 65 00:04:06,716 --> 00:04:11,036 Speaker 1: a summer of nineteen sixty nine. Catholics and Protestants, the 66 00:04:11,116 --> 00:04:14,276 Speaker 1: two religious communities that have lived uneasily alongside each other 67 00:04:14,356 --> 00:04:18,076 Speaker 1: throughout the country's history, or at each other's throat. They 68 00:04:18,116 --> 00:04:23,036 Speaker 1: were bombings and riots. Gangs of Protestant militants, loyalists, as 69 00:04:23,076 --> 00:04:27,316 Speaker 1: they were called, roam the streets, burning down houses. The 70 00:04:27,396 --> 00:04:30,676 Speaker 1: Lawlers were Catholic, and Catholics have always been a minority 71 00:04:30,676 --> 00:04:35,316 Speaker 1: in Northern Ireland. Every day they grew more frightened. I'd 72 00:04:35,316 --> 00:04:37,716 Speaker 1: come home at night, Lawlers said, and they would be 73 00:04:37,836 --> 00:04:41,596 Speaker 1: riding on the door tags out. Tags is a derogatory 74 00:04:41,676 --> 00:04:46,116 Speaker 1: word for an Irish Catholic, or no pope here. Another 75 00:04:46,236 --> 00:04:48,676 Speaker 1: night we were there. We were very lucky. A bomb 76 00:04:48,716 --> 00:04:51,796 Speaker 1: came into the back yard and didn't explode. One day 77 00:04:51,796 --> 00:04:53,756 Speaker 1: I went to knock on my neighbor's door and I 78 00:04:53,796 --> 00:04:56,436 Speaker 1: realized she was gone. I found out that day that 79 00:04:56,556 --> 00:04:59,156 Speaker 1: a lot of people had gone So when my husband, 80 00:04:59,236 --> 00:05:01,436 Speaker 1: Terry came home from work, I said, Terry, what's going 81 00:05:01,476 --> 00:05:05,516 Speaker 1: on here? And he said, we're in danger. We left 82 00:05:05,516 --> 00:05:08,636 Speaker 1: the home that night. We had no phone. You remember 83 00:05:08,796 --> 00:05:12,196 Speaker 1: this in the days before mobiles. We walked out. The 84 00:05:12,316 --> 00:05:15,276 Speaker 1: fear was in me. I put my son in his pram. 85 00:05:15,556 --> 00:05:17,956 Speaker 1: I guided up best we could pieces of clothes for 86 00:05:18,036 --> 00:05:20,436 Speaker 1: him and ourselves. There was a tray at the bottom 87 00:05:20,436 --> 00:05:22,196 Speaker 1: of the pram and we stuffed them all in the tray. 88 00:05:22,516 --> 00:05:25,476 Speaker 1: And Terry says to me, right, Rosy, We're going to 89 00:05:25,556 --> 00:05:28,716 Speaker 1: walk straight out of here, I'm going to smile at everybody. 90 00:05:29,436 --> 00:05:32,796 Speaker 1: I was trembling. I was a teenage mom, a teenage 91 00:05:32,836 --> 00:05:35,756 Speaker 1: girl who got married, nineteen married, new baby, new world, 92 00:05:35,796 --> 00:05:38,396 Speaker 1: new life taken away from me like that, do you know? 93 00:05:38,996 --> 00:05:41,556 Speaker 1: And I have no power to stop it. Fear is 94 00:05:41,596 --> 00:05:45,716 Speaker 1: an awful thing, and I remember being really, really scared. 95 00:05:47,036 --> 00:05:50,356 Speaker 1: The safest place they knew was the all Catholic neighborhood 96 00:05:50,356 --> 00:05:54,356 Speaker 1: of Bala Murphy in West Belfast, where Lawlor's parents lived. 97 00:05:54,876 --> 00:05:57,876 Speaker 1: But they had no car, and with Belfast and turmoil, 98 00:05:58,196 --> 00:06:01,836 Speaker 1: no taxi wanted to venture into a Catholic neighborhood. Finally, 99 00:06:01,876 --> 00:06:04,596 Speaker 1: they tricked a cabin to stopping by, saying their baby 100 00:06:04,636 --> 00:06:07,636 Speaker 1: was sick and needed to get to a hospital. They 101 00:06:07,636 --> 00:06:10,476 Speaker 1: shut the car door and Terry told the driver, I 102 00:06:10,596 --> 00:06:13,916 Speaker 1: want you to take us to Balamurphy. The driver said, 103 00:06:13,956 --> 00:06:16,316 Speaker 1: oh no, I'm not doing that. But Terry had a 104 00:06:16,356 --> 00:06:18,636 Speaker 1: poker and he took it out and he placed the 105 00:06:18,676 --> 00:06:21,436 Speaker 1: point against the back of the driver's neck and said, 106 00:06:21,796 --> 00:06:24,836 Speaker 1: you're going to take us. The cab driver drove them 107 00:06:24,836 --> 00:06:27,716 Speaker 1: to the edge of Balamurphy and stopped. I don't care 108 00:06:27,756 --> 00:06:29,636 Speaker 1: if you stick that in me. He said, I'm not 109 00:06:29,716 --> 00:06:33,436 Speaker 1: going any further. The Lawlers gathered up their baby and 110 00:06:33,556 --> 00:06:38,516 Speaker 1: their worldly possessions and ran for their lives. At the 111 00:06:38,556 --> 00:06:43,076 Speaker 1: beginning of nineteen seventy, things got worse. That Easter, there 112 00:06:43,116 --> 00:06:46,396 Speaker 1: was a ride in Balamurphy. The British Army was called in. 113 00:06:46,596 --> 00:06:49,196 Speaker 1: A fleet of armored cars with barbed wire on their 114 00:06:49,196 --> 00:06:53,116 Speaker 1: bumpers patrolled the streets. Lawler would push her pram pass 115 00:06:53,196 --> 00:06:57,716 Speaker 1: soldiers with automatic rifles and tear gas grenades. One weekend 116 00:06:57,756 --> 00:07:00,716 Speaker 1: in June, there was a gun battle in the Boordering neighborhood. 117 00:07:01,076 --> 00:07:03,396 Speaker 1: A group of Catholic gunmen stepped into the middle of 118 00:07:03,396 --> 00:07:06,876 Speaker 1: the road and opened fire on a group of Protestant bystanders. 119 00:07:07,516 --> 00:07:10,276 Speaker 1: In response, Protestant law whilst tried to burn down a 120 00:07:10,316 --> 00:07:13,796 Speaker 1: Catholic church near the docks. For five hours, the two 121 00:07:13,836 --> 00:07:17,796 Speaker 1: sides fought locked in deadly gun battle. Hundreds of fires 122 00:07:17,876 --> 00:07:20,756 Speaker 1: burned across the city. By the end of the weekend, 123 00:07:21,036 --> 00:07:23,836 Speaker 1: six people were dead and more than two hundred injured. 124 00:07:24,396 --> 00:07:28,036 Speaker 1: The British Home Secretary responsible for Northern Ireland flew up 125 00:07:28,076 --> 00:07:32,116 Speaker 1: from London, surveyed the chaos and ran back to his plane. 126 00:07:32,756 --> 00:07:35,876 Speaker 1: For God's sake, bring me a large scotch, he said, 127 00:07:36,436 --> 00:07:41,516 Speaker 1: burying his head in his hands. What a bloody, awful country. 128 00:07:41,836 --> 00:07:45,356 Speaker 1: A week later, a woman came through Ballymurphy. Her name 129 00:07:45,396 --> 00:07:49,116 Speaker 1: was Harriet Carson. She was famous for hitting Maggie Thatcher 130 00:07:49,116 --> 00:07:52,516 Speaker 1: over the head with a handbag at city Hall. Lawlor said, 131 00:07:52,916 --> 00:07:55,756 Speaker 1: I knew her growing up. Harriet was coming around with 132 00:07:55,876 --> 00:07:58,676 Speaker 1: two lids of pots and she was banging him together 133 00:07:58,716 --> 00:08:01,956 Speaker 1: and she was shouting, come on, come out, come out. 134 00:08:02,076 --> 00:08:04,716 Speaker 1: The people in the lower falls were getting murdered. She 135 00:08:04,876 --> 00:08:06,716 Speaker 1: was shouting it up and I went out to the door. 136 00:08:07,116 --> 00:08:09,516 Speaker 1: My family was all there and she was shouting, they're 137 00:08:09,556 --> 00:08:12,796 Speaker 1: locked in their houses. Their children can't get milk, and 138 00:08:12,876 --> 00:08:14,836 Speaker 1: they haven't got anything for a cup of tea, and 139 00:08:14,876 --> 00:08:17,236 Speaker 1: there's no bread, and come out, come out. We need 140 00:08:17,276 --> 00:08:21,316 Speaker 1: to do something. The Lower Falls is in all Catholic neighborhood, 141 00:08:21,356 --> 00:08:24,396 Speaker 1: just down the hill from Balamurfy. Lawler had gone to 142 00:08:24,436 --> 00:08:27,116 Speaker 1: school in the Lower Falls. Her uncle lived there, as 143 00:08:27,156 --> 00:08:30,156 Speaker 1: did countless cousins. She knew as many people in the 144 00:08:30,196 --> 00:08:33,436 Speaker 1: Lower Falls as she did in Balamurphy. The British Army 145 00:08:33,436 --> 00:08:36,596 Speaker 1: had put the entire neighborhood under curfew while they searched 146 00:08:36,636 --> 00:08:40,956 Speaker 1: for illegal weapons. I didn't know what curfew meant, Lawler said, 147 00:08:41,356 --> 00:08:44,196 Speaker 1: hadn't a clue. I had to say to somebody, what 148 00:08:44,276 --> 00:08:46,916 Speaker 1: does that mean? She said, they're not allowed out of 149 00:08:46,916 --> 00:08:49,596 Speaker 1: their houses. I said, how can they do that? I 150 00:08:49,716 --> 00:08:53,516 Speaker 1: was totally stunned. Stunned, what do you mean? The people 151 00:08:53,516 --> 00:08:55,676 Speaker 1: are locked in their houses, they can't get out for 152 00:08:55,716 --> 00:08:58,436 Speaker 1: bread or milk. While the Brits, the British Army were 153 00:08:58,516 --> 00:09:01,596 Speaker 1: kicking indoors and racking and ruining and searching. I was 154 00:09:01,836 --> 00:09:05,476 Speaker 1: what the biggest thought in everybody's mind was there are 155 00:09:05,556 --> 00:09:08,756 Speaker 1: people locked in their houses. And as children, you have 156 00:09:08,756 --> 00:09:12,356 Speaker 1: to remember some houses had twelve fifteen kids in them. 157 00:09:12,676 --> 00:09:15,036 Speaker 1: Do you know that's the way it was? What do 158 00:09:15,076 --> 00:09:17,676 Speaker 1: you mean they can't get out of their houses? They 159 00:09:17,716 --> 00:09:22,556 Speaker 1: were angry. Rosemey Lawler is now in her sixties, a 160 00:09:22,636 --> 00:09:25,716 Speaker 1: sturdily built woman with ruddy cheeks and short, white blonde 161 00:09:25,756 --> 00:09:29,276 Speaker 1: hair swept to the side. She was a seamstress by trade, 162 00:09:29,436 --> 00:09:32,956 Speaker 1: and she was dressed with flair, a bright floral blouse 163 00:09:32,996 --> 00:09:36,356 Speaker 1: and white cropped pants. She was talking about things that 164 00:09:36,436 --> 00:09:39,956 Speaker 1: had happened half a lifetime ago, but she remembered every moment. 165 00:09:41,036 --> 00:09:45,156 Speaker 1: My father said, the Brits they'll turn on us. They'll 166 00:09:45,196 --> 00:09:47,836 Speaker 1: say they're in here to protect us. They'll turn on us. 167 00:09:47,836 --> 00:09:51,316 Speaker 1: You wait and see. And he was one hundred percent right. 168 00:09:52,036 --> 00:09:54,716 Speaker 1: They turned on us and the curfew was the start 169 00:09:54,716 --> 00:09:58,716 Speaker 1: of it. The same year that Northern Ireland descended into chaos, 170 00:09:59,196 --> 00:10:03,196 Speaker 1: two economists, Nathan Ladies and Charles Wolf Junior wrote a 171 00:10:03,236 --> 00:10:07,596 Speaker 1: report about how to deal with insurgencies. Ladies and Wolf 172 00:10:07,756 --> 00:10:11,316 Speaker 1: worked for the Rand Corporation, the prestigious think tank started 173 00:10:11,356 --> 00:10:14,636 Speaker 1: after the Second World War by the Pentagon. Their report 174 00:10:14,716 --> 00:10:18,876 Speaker 1: was called Rebellion and Authority. In those years when the 175 00:10:18,916 --> 00:10:22,556 Speaker 1: world was exploding in violence, everyone read Ladies in Wolf. 176 00:10:23,236 --> 00:10:27,036 Speaker 1: Rebellion and Authority became the blueprint for the war in Vietnam, 177 00:10:27,316 --> 00:10:30,236 Speaker 1: and for how police departments dealt with civil unrest and 178 00:10:30,316 --> 00:10:35,156 Speaker 1: for how governments cope with terrorism. Its conclusion was simple. 179 00:10:36,276 --> 00:10:40,156 Speaker 1: Fundamental to our analysis is the assumption that the population, 180 00:10:40,716 --> 00:10:46,276 Speaker 1: as individuals or groups behaves rationally, that it calculates costs 181 00:10:46,276 --> 00:10:48,596 Speaker 1: and benefits to the extent that they can be related 182 00:10:48,596 --> 00:10:54,156 Speaker 1: to different courses of action, and makes choices accordingly. Consequently, 183 00:10:54,636 --> 00:11:00,476 Speaker 1: influencing popular behavior requires neither sympathy nor mysticism, but rather 184 00:11:00,716 --> 00:11:04,636 Speaker 1: a better understanding of what costs and benefits the individual 185 00:11:04,796 --> 00:11:08,276 Speaker 1: or the group is concerned with and how they are calculated. 186 00:11:09,356 --> 00:11:12,916 Speaker 1: In other words, getting insurgents to behave is fundamentally a 187 00:11:12,956 --> 00:11:16,756 Speaker 1: math problem. If there are riots in the streets of Belfast, 188 00:11:17,076 --> 00:11:20,276 Speaker 1: it's because the costs to rioters of burning houses and 189 00:11:20,436 --> 00:11:24,756 Speaker 1: smashing windows aren't high enough. And when Ladies and Wolf 190 00:11:25,036 --> 00:11:29,996 Speaker 1: said that influencing popular behavior requires neither sympathy nor mysticism, 191 00:11:30,276 --> 00:11:33,716 Speaker 1: what they meant was that nothing mattered but that calculation. 192 00:11:34,756 --> 00:11:37,476 Speaker 1: If you were in a position of power, you didn't 193 00:11:37,476 --> 00:11:40,436 Speaker 1: have to worry about how lawbreakers felt about what you 194 00:11:40,476 --> 00:11:43,756 Speaker 1: were doing You just had to be tough enough to 195 00:11:43,796 --> 00:11:47,076 Speaker 1: make them think twice. The general in charge of the 196 00:11:47,116 --> 00:11:50,276 Speaker 1: British forces in Northern Ireland was a man straight out 197 00:11:50,276 --> 00:11:53,356 Speaker 1: of the pages of rebellion and authority. His name was 198 00:11:53,436 --> 00:11:57,396 Speaker 1: Ian Freeland. He had served with distinction in Normandy during 199 00:11:57,436 --> 00:12:01,156 Speaker 1: the Second World War and later fought insurgencies in Cyprus 200 00:12:01,196 --> 00:12:05,516 Speaker 1: and Zanzibar. He was trim and forthright, with a straight 201 00:12:05,596 --> 00:12:08,836 Speaker 1: back and a square jaw and a firm hand. He 202 00:12:09,196 --> 00:12:12,676 Speaker 1: conveyed the correct impression of a man who knew what 203 00:12:12,876 --> 00:12:15,996 Speaker 1: needed to be done and would do it. When he 204 00:12:16,116 --> 00:12:18,516 Speaker 1: arrived in Northern Ireland, he made it plain that his 205 00:12:18,596 --> 00:12:22,236 Speaker 1: patience was limited. He was not afraid to use force. 206 00:12:22,756 --> 00:12:25,836 Speaker 1: He had his orders from the Prime Minister. The British 207 00:12:25,916 --> 00:12:29,636 Speaker 1: Army should deal toughly and be seen to deal toughly 208 00:12:29,996 --> 00:12:34,956 Speaker 1: with thugs and gunmen. On June thirtieth, nineteen seventy, the 209 00:12:35,076 --> 00:12:39,116 Speaker 1: British Army received a tip there were explosives and weapons 210 00:12:39,196 --> 00:12:42,076 Speaker 1: hidden in a house at twenty four Balkan Street in 211 00:12:42,116 --> 00:12:46,916 Speaker 1: the Lower Falls. They were told. Freeland immediately dispatched five 212 00:12:47,116 --> 00:12:50,916 Speaker 1: armored cars filled with soldiers and police officers a search 213 00:12:50,956 --> 00:12:54,756 Speaker 1: of the house turned up a cache of guns and ammunition. Outside, 214 00:12:54,756 --> 00:12:59,196 Speaker 1: a crowd gathered. Someone started throwing stones. Stones turned into 215 00:12:59,276 --> 00:13:03,116 Speaker 1: petrol bombs. A riot started. By ten pm, the British 216 00:13:03,116 --> 00:13:07,236 Speaker 1: had had enough. An army helicopter armed with a loudspeaker 217 00:13:07,316 --> 00:13:10,676 Speaker 1: circled the Lower Falls to ending that all residents stay 218 00:13:10,716 --> 00:13:14,916 Speaker 1: inside their homes or face arrest. As the streets cleared, 219 00:13:15,156 --> 00:13:19,316 Speaker 1: the army launched a massive house to house search. Disobedience 220 00:13:19,556 --> 00:13:24,116 Speaker 1: was met with firm and immediate punishment. The next morning, 221 00:13:24,316 --> 00:13:28,436 Speaker 1: a triumphant Freeland took two Protestant government officials and a 222 00:13:28,476 --> 00:13:30,876 Speaker 1: pack of journalists on a two of the neighborhood and 223 00:13:30,916 --> 00:13:35,156 Speaker 1: the back of an open flatbed truck, surveying the deserted streets, like, 224 00:13:35,516 --> 00:13:39,036 Speaker 1: as one soldier later put it, the British raj on 225 00:13:39,116 --> 00:13:42,996 Speaker 1: a tiger hunt. The British Army went to Northern Ireland 226 00:13:43,116 --> 00:13:47,436 Speaker 1: with the best of intentions. The local police force was overwhelmed, 227 00:13:47,596 --> 00:13:50,836 Speaker 1: and they were there simply to help to serve as 228 00:13:50,836 --> 00:13:55,716 Speaker 1: a peacekeeper between Northern Ireland's two warring populations. This was 229 00:13:55,836 --> 00:13:58,836 Speaker 1: not some distant and foreign land. They were dealing with 230 00:13:58,876 --> 00:14:02,276 Speaker 1: their own country, their own language, and their own culture. 231 00:14:02,836 --> 00:14:07,156 Speaker 1: They had resources and weapons, and soldiers and experience that 232 00:14:07,396 --> 00:14:10,956 Speaker 1: dwarfed those of the insert elements they were trying to contain. 233 00:14:11,916 --> 00:14:14,436 Speaker 1: When Freeland toured the empty streets of the Lower Falls 234 00:14:14,516 --> 00:14:17,116 Speaker 1: that morning, he believed that he and his men would 235 00:14:17,156 --> 00:14:19,156 Speaker 1: be back home in England by the end of the summer. 236 00:14:20,156 --> 00:14:23,636 Speaker 1: But that's not what happened. Instead, what should have been 237 00:14:23,676 --> 00:14:28,196 Speaker 1: a difficult few months turned into thirty years of bloodshed 238 00:14:28,516 --> 00:14:32,916 Speaker 1: and mayhem in Northern Ireland. The British made a simple mistake. 239 00:14:33,756 --> 00:14:37,116 Speaker 1: They fell into the trap of believing that because they 240 00:14:37,156 --> 00:14:42,476 Speaker 1: had resources, weapons, soldiers and experience that dwarfed those of 241 00:14:42,516 --> 00:14:45,596 Speaker 1: the insurgent elements they were trying to contain, it did 242 00:14:45,636 --> 00:14:48,916 Speaker 1: not matter what the people of Northern Ireland thought of them. 243 00:14:49,836 --> 00:14:53,276 Speaker 1: General Freeland believed Ladies and Wolf when they said that 244 00:14:53,556 --> 00:15:00,036 Speaker 1: influencing popular behavior requires neither sympathy nor mysticism, and Ladies 245 00:15:00,076 --> 00:15:04,396 Speaker 1: and Wolf were wrong. It has been said that most 246 00:15:04,476 --> 00:15:07,716 Speaker 1: revolutions are not caused by revolutionaries in the first place, 247 00:15:07,996 --> 00:15:12,556 Speaker 1: but by the stupid and brutality of governments. Sean mcstephen, 248 00:15:12,716 --> 00:15:16,236 Speaker 1: the Provisional IRA's first chief of staff, once said, looking 249 00:15:16,276 --> 00:15:19,676 Speaker 1: back on those early years, well, you had that to 250 00:15:19,756 --> 00:15:23,476 Speaker 1: start with in Northern Ireland, all right. The simplest way 251 00:15:23,476 --> 00:15:26,356 Speaker 1: to understand the British mistake in Northern Ireland is to 252 00:15:26,436 --> 00:15:30,756 Speaker 1: picture a classroom. It's a kindergarten class, a room with 253 00:15:30,836 --> 00:15:34,796 Speaker 1: brightly colored walls covered in children's drawings. Let's call the 254 00:15:34,836 --> 00:15:39,316 Speaker 1: teacher Stella. The classroom was videotaped as part of a 255 00:15:39,396 --> 00:15:42,876 Speaker 1: project at the Curry School of Education at the University 256 00:15:42,876 --> 00:15:45,636 Speaker 1: of Virginia, and there is more than enough footage to 257 00:15:45,676 --> 00:15:48,036 Speaker 1: provide a good sense of the kind of teacher Stella 258 00:15:48,236 --> 00:15:51,956 Speaker 1: is and the kind of classroom she has. Even after 259 00:15:52,036 --> 00:15:55,356 Speaker 1: a few minutes, it is abundantly clear that things aren't 260 00:15:55,436 --> 00:15:58,876 Speaker 1: going well. Stella is sitting in a chair at the 261 00:15:58,916 --> 00:16:01,316 Speaker 1: front of the room. She's reading out loud from a 262 00:16:01,356 --> 00:16:04,796 Speaker 1: book that she's holding up to one side. Seven slices 263 00:16:04,836 --> 00:16:09,876 Speaker 1: of tomatoes, eight juicy olives, nine chunks of chief. A 264 00:16:09,996 --> 00:16:12,876 Speaker 1: girl is standing in front of her, reading along, and 265 00:16:12,956 --> 00:16:16,156 Speaker 1: all around her, the class is in chaos, a mini 266 00:16:16,236 --> 00:16:19,516 Speaker 1: version of Belfast in the summer of nineteen seventy. A 267 00:16:19,596 --> 00:16:22,916 Speaker 1: little girl is doing cartwheels across the room. A little 268 00:16:22,916 --> 00:16:25,596 Speaker 1: boy is making faces much as a class seems to 269 00:16:25,596 --> 00:16:28,076 Speaker 1: be paying no attention at all. Some of the students 270 00:16:28,196 --> 00:16:31,516 Speaker 1: have actually turned themselves entirely around so that they have 271 00:16:31,636 --> 00:16:34,956 Speaker 1: their backs to Stella. If you were to walk in 272 00:16:34,996 --> 00:16:39,156 Speaker 1: on Stella's class, what would you think. I'm guessing your 273 00:16:39,196 --> 00:16:41,316 Speaker 1: first reaction would be that she has a group of 274 00:16:41,396 --> 00:16:45,276 Speaker 1: unruly children. Maybe she teaches in a school in a 275 00:16:45,316 --> 00:16:49,476 Speaker 1: poor neighborhood and her students come from troubled families. Maybe 276 00:16:49,516 --> 00:16:52,236 Speaker 1: her students come to school without any real respect for 277 00:16:52,276 --> 00:16:56,156 Speaker 1: authority or learning. Ladies and Wolf would say that she 278 00:16:56,276 --> 00:16:59,636 Speaker 1: really needs to use some discipline. Children like that need 279 00:16:59,676 --> 00:17:03,076 Speaker 1: a firm hand, they need rules. If there is no 280 00:17:03,276 --> 00:17:06,196 Speaker 1: order in the classroom, how can any learning take place. 281 00:17:07,276 --> 00:17:10,516 Speaker 1: The truth is, though, that Stella's school isn't in some 282 00:17:10,756 --> 00:17:16,196 Speaker 1: terrible neighborhood. Her students aren't particularly or unusually unruly. When 283 00:17:16,196 --> 00:17:19,676 Speaker 1: the class begins, they are perfectly well behaved and attentive, 284 00:17:20,036 --> 00:17:23,156 Speaker 1: eager and ready to learn. They don't seem like bad 285 00:17:23,196 --> 00:17:26,876 Speaker 1: apples at all. They only start to misbehave well into 286 00:17:26,876 --> 00:17:29,956 Speaker 1: the lesson, and only in response to the way Stella 287 00:17:30,156 --> 00:17:35,476 Speaker 1: is behaving. Stella causes the crisis. How So, by doing 288 00:17:35,516 --> 00:17:39,196 Speaker 1: an appalling job of teaching the lesson, Stella had the 289 00:17:39,196 --> 00:17:41,876 Speaker 1: girl from the class reading alongside her as a way 290 00:17:41,916 --> 00:17:44,676 Speaker 1: of engaging the rest of the students, but the pacing 291 00:17:44,676 --> 00:17:46,316 Speaker 1: of the back and forth between the two of them 292 00:17:46,676 --> 00:17:50,956 Speaker 1: was excruciatingly slow and wooden. Look at her body language. 293 00:17:51,116 --> 00:17:53,956 Speaker 1: One of the Virginia researchers, Bridget Hamry said, as we 294 00:17:53,996 --> 00:17:57,236 Speaker 1: watched Stella right now, she's just talking to this one kid, 295 00:17:57,396 --> 00:18:00,556 Speaker 1: and no one else is getting in. Her colleague, Robert 296 00:18:00,556 --> 00:18:04,516 Speaker 1: Pianta added, there's no rhythm, no pace. This is going nowhere. 297 00:18:04,756 --> 00:18:08,156 Speaker 1: There's no value in what she's doing. Only then did 298 00:18:08,156 --> 00:18:12,236 Speaker 1: the class begin to deteriorate. The little boys started making faces. 299 00:18:12,716 --> 00:18:16,356 Speaker 1: When the child started doing cartwheels, Stella missed it entirely. 300 00:18:16,836 --> 00:18:18,676 Speaker 1: Three or four students to the immediate right of the 301 00:18:18,716 --> 00:18:22,076 Speaker 1: teacher were still gamely trying to follow along, but Stella 302 00:18:22,196 --> 00:18:24,796 Speaker 1: was so locked onto the book that she wasn't giving 303 00:18:24,796 --> 00:18:29,036 Speaker 1: them any encouragement. Meanwhile, to Stella's left, five or six 304 00:18:29,116 --> 00:18:32,476 Speaker 1: children had turned themselves around, but that was because they 305 00:18:32,476 --> 00:18:36,396 Speaker 1: were bewildered, not because they were disobedient. Their view of 306 00:18:36,396 --> 00:18:39,076 Speaker 1: the book was completely blocked by the little girl standing 307 00:18:39,116 --> 00:18:41,396 Speaker 1: in front of Stella. They had no way of following 308 00:18:41,436 --> 00:18:46,196 Speaker 1: along we often think of authority as a response to disobedience. 309 00:18:46,556 --> 00:18:51,996 Speaker 1: A child acts up, so a teacher cracks down. Stella's classroom, however, 310 00:18:52,196 --> 00:18:56,516 Speaker 1: suggests something quite different. Disobedience can also be a response 311 00:18:56,556 --> 00:19:00,036 Speaker 1: to authority. If the teacher doesn't do her job properly, 312 00:19:00,436 --> 00:19:05,396 Speaker 1: then the child will become disobedient. With classrooms like this one, 313 00:19:05,596 --> 00:19:09,636 Speaker 1: people will call what is happening a behavioral issue. Said 314 00:19:10,116 --> 00:19:13,356 Speaker 1: we were watching one of Stella's kids wiggling and squirming 315 00:19:13,356 --> 00:19:16,596 Speaker 1: and contorting her face and altogether doing whatever she could 316 00:19:16,676 --> 00:19:19,676 Speaker 1: to avoid her teacher. But one of the things we 317 00:19:19,756 --> 00:19:22,436 Speaker 1: find is that this sort of thing is more often 318 00:19:22,476 --> 00:19:26,716 Speaker 1: an engagement problem than a behavioral problem. If a teacher 319 00:19:26,796 --> 00:19:30,796 Speaker 1: is actually doing something interesting, these kids are quite capable 320 00:19:31,036 --> 00:19:34,716 Speaker 1: of being engaged. Instead of responding in a let me 321 00:19:34,796 --> 00:19:38,196 Speaker 1: control your behavior way, the teacher needs to think, how 322 00:19:38,236 --> 00:19:41,436 Speaker 1: can I do something interesting that will prevent you from 323 00:19:41,436 --> 00:19:45,796 Speaker 1: misbehaving in the first place. The next video Pianta and 324 00:19:45,876 --> 00:19:48,956 Speaker 1: Hamrey played was of a third grade teacher giving homework 325 00:19:48,996 --> 00:19:52,516 Speaker 1: to her students. Each student was given a copy of 326 00:19:52,516 --> 00:19:55,596 Speaker 1: the assignment, and the teacher in the class read the 327 00:19:55,676 --> 00:20:01,116 Speaker 1: instructions aloud together. Pianta was aghast. Just the idea that 328 00:20:01,196 --> 00:20:03,676 Speaker 1: you would be choral reading a set of instructions to 329 00:20:03,716 --> 00:20:06,996 Speaker 1: a bunch of eight year olds is almost disrespectful, he said, 330 00:20:07,156 --> 00:20:11,476 Speaker 1: I mean, why is there any instructional purpose they know 331 00:20:11,556 --> 00:20:14,036 Speaker 1: how to read. It's like a waiter in a restaurant 332 00:20:14,116 --> 00:20:17,276 Speaker 1: giving the menu and then proceeding to read every item 333 00:20:17,356 --> 00:20:20,596 Speaker 1: to you just as it appears on the page. A 334 00:20:20,716 --> 00:20:23,316 Speaker 1: boy sitting next to the teacher raises his hand midway 335 00:20:23,316 --> 00:20:26,076 Speaker 1: through the reading, and without looking at him, the teacher 336 00:20:26,116 --> 00:20:30,116 Speaker 1: reaches out, grabs his wrists and pushes his hand down. 337 00:20:30,876 --> 00:20:34,796 Speaker 1: Another child starts to actually do the assignment, an entirely 338 00:20:34,876 --> 00:20:38,316 Speaker 1: logical action given the pointlessness of what the teacher is doing. 339 00:20:38,796 --> 00:20:44,236 Speaker 1: The teacher addresses him sharply, sweetie, this is homework. It 340 00:20:44,316 --> 00:20:47,756 Speaker 1: was a moment of discipline. The child had broken the rules. 341 00:20:48,076 --> 00:20:51,756 Speaker 1: The teacher had responded firmly and immediately. If you were 342 00:20:51,796 --> 00:20:54,276 Speaker 1: to watch that moment with a sound turned off, you 343 00:20:54,276 --> 00:20:57,116 Speaker 1: would think of it as Ladies and Wolf perfectly applied. 344 00:20:58,036 --> 00:21:00,196 Speaker 1: But if you were to listen to what the teacher 345 00:21:00,276 --> 00:21:03,836 Speaker 1: was saying and think about the incident from the child's perspective, 346 00:21:04,116 --> 00:21:07,236 Speaker 1: it would become clear that it is having anything but 347 00:21:07,356 --> 00:21:10,796 Speaker 1: its intended effect. The little boy isn't going to come 348 00:21:10,836 --> 00:21:14,396 Speaker 1: away with the renewed appreciation of the importance of following 349 00:21:14,396 --> 00:21:17,916 Speaker 1: the rules. He's going to come away angry and disillusioned. 350 00:21:18,756 --> 00:21:23,356 Speaker 1: Why because the punishment is completely arbitrary. He can't speak 351 00:21:23,436 --> 00:21:25,556 Speaker 1: up and give his own side of the story, and 352 00:21:25,676 --> 00:21:29,316 Speaker 1: he wants to learn. If that little boy became defiant, 353 00:21:29,516 --> 00:21:32,836 Speaker 1: it was because his teacher made him that way, just 354 00:21:32,956 --> 00:21:36,436 Speaker 1: as Stella turned an eager and attentive student into someone 355 00:21:36,516 --> 00:21:40,676 Speaker 1: who did cartwheels across the floor. When people in authority 356 00:21:40,716 --> 00:21:43,636 Speaker 1: want the rest of us to behave, it matters first 357 00:21:43,676 --> 00:21:47,956 Speaker 1: and foremost how they behave. This is called the principle 358 00:21:48,036 --> 00:21:52,396 Speaker 1: of legitimacy, and legitimacy is based on three things. First 359 00:21:52,396 --> 00:21:54,876 Speaker 1: of all, the people who are asked to obey authority 360 00:21:55,116 --> 00:21:57,636 Speaker 1: have to feel like they have a voice, that if 361 00:21:57,636 --> 00:22:01,036 Speaker 1: they speak up, they will be heard. Second, the law 362 00:22:01,076 --> 00:22:04,236 Speaker 1: has to be predictable. There has to be a reasonable 363 00:22:04,276 --> 00:22:07,996 Speaker 1: expectation that the rules tomorrow are going to be roughly 364 00:22:07,996 --> 00:22:12,276 Speaker 1: the same as the rule today. And third, the authority 365 00:22:12,316 --> 00:22:15,956 Speaker 1: has to be fair. It can't treat one group differently 366 00:22:16,236 --> 00:22:21,276 Speaker 1: from another. All good parents understand these three principles Implicitly, 367 00:22:21,876 --> 00:22:24,356 Speaker 1: if you want to stop little Johnny from hitting his sister, 368 00:22:24,716 --> 00:22:27,556 Speaker 1: you can't look away one time and scream at him another. 369 00:22:27,876 --> 00:22:30,716 Speaker 1: You can't treat his sister differently when she hits him, 370 00:22:31,076 --> 00:22:33,156 Speaker 1: And if he says he really didn't hit his sister, 371 00:22:33,436 --> 00:22:35,796 Speaker 1: you have to give him a chance to explain himself. 372 00:22:36,716 --> 00:22:39,716 Speaker 1: How you punish is as important as the act of 373 00:22:39,796 --> 00:22:44,436 Speaker 1: punishing itself. Nor is the story of Stella all that surprising. 374 00:22:44,916 --> 00:22:47,596 Speaker 1: Anyone who has ever sat in a classroom knows that 375 00:22:47,636 --> 00:22:50,436 Speaker 1: it is important for teachers to earn the respect of 376 00:22:50,476 --> 00:22:54,676 Speaker 1: their students. What is harder to understand, however, is the 377 00:22:54,716 --> 00:22:57,476 Speaker 1: importance of these same principles when it comes to law 378 00:22:57,476 --> 00:23:00,876 Speaker 1: and order. We know our parents and our teachers, so 379 00:23:00,956 --> 00:23:03,916 Speaker 1: it makes sense that legitimacy should matter a lot inside 380 00:23:03,916 --> 00:23:07,196 Speaker 1: the home or the school. But the decision about whether 381 00:23:07,236 --> 00:23:10,316 Speaker 1: to rob a bank or shoots one seems like it 382 00:23:10,356 --> 00:23:13,716 Speaker 1: belongs to a very different category, doesn't it. That's what 383 00:23:13,796 --> 00:23:16,436 Speaker 1: Ladies and Wolf meant when they said that fighting criminals 384 00:23:16,436 --> 00:23:21,956 Speaker 1: and insurgents requires neither sympathy nor mysticism. They were saying 385 00:23:21,996 --> 00:23:24,716 Speaker 1: that at that level, the decision to obey the law 386 00:23:25,036 --> 00:23:29,276 Speaker 1: is a function of a rational calculation of risks and benefits. 387 00:23:29,316 --> 00:23:33,436 Speaker 1: It isn't personal. But that's precisely where they went wrong, 388 00:23:33,716 --> 00:23:37,276 Speaker 1: because getting criminals and insurgents to behave turns out to 389 00:23:37,316 --> 00:23:41,196 Speaker 1: be as dependent on legitimacy as getting children to behave 390 00:23:41,556 --> 00:23:43,956 Speaker 1: in the classroom. We'll be right back with more of 391 00:23:43,996 --> 00:23:51,076 Speaker 1: Malcolm's reading from his book David and Glithe. We're back 392 00:23:51,076 --> 00:23:55,076 Speaker 1: with more of Malcolm's reading of David and Glythe When 393 00:23:55,196 --> 00:23:59,316 Speaker 1: Ladies and Wolf wrote that influencing popular behavior requires neither 394 00:23:59,396 --> 00:24:02,596 Speaker 1: sympathy nor mysticism, they meant that the power of the 395 00:24:02,676 --> 00:24:06,796 Speaker 1: state was without limits. If you wanted to impose order, 396 00:24:07,076 --> 00:24:09,476 Speaker 1: you didn't have to worry about what those whom you 397 00:24:09,476 --> 00:24:12,356 Speaker 1: were ordering about thought of you. You were above that. 398 00:24:13,116 --> 00:24:16,276 Speaker 1: But Ladies and Wolf had it backwards. That was the 399 00:24:16,356 --> 00:24:20,236 Speaker 1: mistake General Freeland made in the Lower Falls. He didn't 400 00:24:20,236 --> 00:24:22,156 Speaker 1: look at what was happening through the eyes of people 401 00:24:22,196 --> 00:24:26,356 Speaker 1: like Rosemary Lawler. He thought he'd ended the insurgency when 402 00:24:26,396 --> 00:24:29,156 Speaker 1: he rode around the hush streets of the Lower Falls 403 00:24:29,156 --> 00:24:32,676 Speaker 1: like a British raj on a tiger hunt. Had he 404 00:24:32,716 --> 00:24:35,956 Speaker 1: bothered to drive up the street to Balamurphy where Harriet 405 00:24:35,996 --> 00:24:39,556 Speaker 1: Carson was banging the lids of pots and saying, come on, 406 00:24:39,796 --> 00:24:42,236 Speaker 1: come out, come out. The people in the lower falls 407 00:24:42,236 --> 00:24:46,316 Speaker 1: are getting murdered. He would have realized the insurgency was 408 00:24:46,396 --> 00:24:50,396 Speaker 1: just beginning. July in Northern Ireland is the height of 409 00:24:50,476 --> 00:24:54,636 Speaker 1: what is known as Marching season, when the country's Protestant 410 00:24:54,716 --> 00:24:59,596 Speaker 1: loyalists organized parades to commemorate their long ago victories over 411 00:24:59,636 --> 00:25:05,036 Speaker 1: the country's Catholic minority. There are church parades, arch banner 412 00:25:05,116 --> 00:25:10,156 Speaker 1: and hall parades, commemorative band parades, and blood and Thunder 413 00:25:10,396 --> 00:25:14,236 Speaker 1: and Kick the Pope flute band parades. There are parades 414 00:25:14,236 --> 00:25:19,036 Speaker 1: with full silver bands, parades with bagpipes, parades with accordions, 415 00:25:19,036 --> 00:25:22,156 Speaker 1: and parades with marchers wearing sashes and dark suits and 416 00:25:22,276 --> 00:25:26,636 Speaker 1: bowler hats. There are hundreds of parades in all, involving 417 00:25:26,716 --> 00:25:30,676 Speaker 1: tens of thousands of people, culminating every year in a 418 00:25:30,796 --> 00:25:33,756 Speaker 1: massive march on the twelfth of July that marks the 419 00:25:33,836 --> 00:25:37,036 Speaker 1: anniversary of the victory by William of Orange in the 420 00:25:37,116 --> 00:25:41,476 Speaker 1: Battle of the Boyne in sixteen ninety, when Protestant control 421 00:25:41,596 --> 00:25:46,716 Speaker 1: over Northern Ireland was established once and for all. The 422 00:25:46,876 --> 00:25:50,196 Speaker 1: night before the twelfth, as it is known marches around 423 00:25:50,236 --> 00:25:54,556 Speaker 1: the country, hold street parties, and build enormous bonfires. When 424 00:25:54,556 --> 00:25:57,036 Speaker 1: the fire is at its height, the group chooses a 425 00:25:57,116 --> 00:26:00,676 Speaker 1: symbol to burn. In past years it has often been 426 00:26:00,716 --> 00:26:04,356 Speaker 1: an effigy of the Pope or some hated local Catholic official. 427 00:26:05,196 --> 00:26:08,516 Speaker 1: Here's how one old twelfth ditty goes, sung to the 428 00:26:08,556 --> 00:26:13,396 Speaker 1: tune of Clementine. Build a bonfire, Build a bonfire, stick 429 00:26:13,436 --> 00:26:16,276 Speaker 1: a Catholic on the top, put the Pope right in 430 00:26:16,356 --> 00:26:20,676 Speaker 1: the middle, and burn the fucking lot. Northern Ireland is 431 00:26:20,756 --> 00:26:24,276 Speaker 1: not a large country. Its cities are dense and compact, 432 00:26:24,676 --> 00:26:27,356 Speaker 1: and as the loyalists march by each summer in their 433 00:26:27,396 --> 00:26:31,676 Speaker 1: bowler hats and sashes with flutes, they inevitably pass by 434 00:26:31,716 --> 00:26:34,396 Speaker 1: the neighborhoods of the people whose defeat they are celebrating. 435 00:26:35,156 --> 00:26:39,076 Speaker 1: The central artery of Catholic West Belfast is in places 436 00:26:39,076 --> 00:26:41,556 Speaker 1: no more than a few minutes walk from the street 437 00:26:41,596 --> 00:26:45,516 Speaker 1: that runs through the heart of Protestant West Belfast. There 438 00:26:45,516 --> 00:26:48,796 Speaker 1: are places in Belfast where the houses of Catholics back 439 00:26:48,916 --> 00:26:53,436 Speaker 1: directly onto the backyards of Protestants, in such close proximity 440 00:26:53,636 --> 00:26:56,636 Speaker 1: that each house has a giant metal great over its 441 00:26:56,636 --> 00:27:01,356 Speaker 1: backyard to protect the inhabitants against debris or petrol bombs 442 00:27:01,396 --> 00:27:04,716 Speaker 1: thrown by their neighbors. On the night before the twelfth, 443 00:27:04,876 --> 00:27:08,836 Speaker 1: when loyalists lit bonfires around the city, people in Catholic 444 00:27:09,116 --> 00:27:12,636 Speaker 1: bhods would smell the smoke and hear the chants and 445 00:27:12,836 --> 00:27:17,316 Speaker 1: see their flag going up in flames. In Marching season, 446 00:27:17,676 --> 00:27:21,756 Speaker 1: violence always erupts in Northern Ireland. One of the instants 447 00:27:21,756 --> 00:27:25,076 Speaker 1: that began the troubles was in nineteen sixty nine, after 448 00:27:25,156 --> 00:27:28,276 Speaker 1: two days of riots broke out when a parade passed 449 00:27:28,276 --> 00:27:31,716 Speaker 1: through a Catholic neighborhood. When the marchers went home, they 450 00:27:31,716 --> 00:27:34,436 Speaker 1: went on a rampage to the streets of West Belfasts, 451 00:27:34,956 --> 00:27:39,156 Speaker 1: burning down scores of homes. The gun battles the following 452 00:27:39,196 --> 00:27:44,596 Speaker 1: summer that so tried Freeland's patients also happened during Protestant marches. 453 00:27:45,196 --> 00:27:48,396 Speaker 1: Imagine that every summer US Army veterans from the Northern 454 00:27:48,436 --> 00:27:51,956 Speaker 1: States paraded through the streets of Atlanta and Richmond to 455 00:27:52,036 --> 00:27:55,396 Speaker 1: commemorate their long ago victory in the American Civil War. 456 00:27:56,236 --> 00:27:59,316 Speaker 1: In the dark years of Northern Ireland, when Catholic and 457 00:27:59,476 --> 00:28:03,756 Speaker 1: Protestant were at each other's throat, that's what Marching season 458 00:28:03,916 --> 00:28:07,996 Speaker 1: felt like when the residence of the Lower Falls looked 459 00:28:08,036 --> 00:28:11,116 Speaker 1: up that afternoon and saw the British Army descend on 460 00:28:11,196 --> 00:28:14,476 Speaker 1: their neighborhood. Then they were as desperate as anyone to 461 00:28:14,516 --> 00:28:17,916 Speaker 1: see law and order enforced in Belfast, but they were 462 00:28:18,036 --> 00:28:22,036 Speaker 1: equally anxious about how law and order would be enforced. 463 00:28:22,676 --> 00:28:26,796 Speaker 1: Their world did not seem fair. The twelfth, when either 464 00:28:26,836 --> 00:28:30,836 Speaker 1: their flag or their pope would be burned in giant bonfires, 465 00:28:31,156 --> 00:28:34,996 Speaker 1: was only days away. The institution charged with keeping both 466 00:28:34,996 --> 00:28:38,516 Speaker 1: sides apart during marching season was the police force, the 467 00:28:38,676 --> 00:28:44,356 Speaker 1: Royal Ulster Constabulary, but the RUC was almost entirely Protestant. 468 00:28:45,116 --> 00:28:48,316 Speaker 1: It belonged to the other side. The RUC had done 469 00:28:48,316 --> 00:28:50,396 Speaker 1: almost nothing to try and stop the riots of the 470 00:28:50,476 --> 00:28:54,916 Speaker 1: previous summer. A tribunal convened by the British government concluded, 471 00:28:55,236 --> 00:28:59,316 Speaker 1: after the Protestant loyalists had torched houses that the RUC 472 00:28:59,516 --> 00:29:04,516 Speaker 1: officers had failed to take effective action. Journalists at the 473 00:29:04,556 --> 00:29:08,436 Speaker 1: scene reported loyalists going up to police officers and asking 474 00:29:08,476 --> 00:29:11,676 Speaker 1: them if they could borrow their weapons. One of the 475 00:29:11,716 --> 00:29:14,636 Speaker 1: reasons the British Army had been brought into Northern Ireland 476 00:29:14,876 --> 00:29:19,676 Speaker 1: was to serve as an impartial referee between Protestant and Catholic. 477 00:29:20,436 --> 00:29:24,956 Speaker 1: But England was an overwhelmingly Protestant country, so it seemed 478 00:29:24,996 --> 00:29:28,956 Speaker 1: only natural to Northern Ireland's beleaguered Catholics that the sympathies 479 00:29:28,996 --> 00:29:33,236 Speaker 1: of the soldiers would ultimately lie with the Protestants. When 480 00:29:33,276 --> 00:29:36,556 Speaker 1: a big Loyalist march had run through Balamurfy in the 481 00:29:36,596 --> 00:29:41,036 Speaker 1: easter before the Lower Falls curfew, British soldiers had stood 482 00:29:41,076 --> 00:29:44,596 Speaker 1: between the marchers and the residents, ostensibly to act as 483 00:29:44,596 --> 00:29:47,636 Speaker 1: a buffer. But the troops faced the Catholics on a 484 00:29:47,716 --> 00:29:50,956 Speaker 1: sidewalk and stood with their backs to the loyalists, as 485 00:29:50,996 --> 00:29:53,676 Speaker 1: if they saw their job as to protect the Loyalists 486 00:29:53,716 --> 00:29:56,596 Speaker 1: from the Catholics, but not the Catholics from the Loyalists. 487 00:29:57,316 --> 00:30:00,876 Speaker 1: General Freeland was trying to enforce the law in Belfast, 488 00:30:01,356 --> 00:30:04,036 Speaker 1: but he needed to first ask himself if he had 489 00:30:04,036 --> 00:30:07,796 Speaker 1: the legitimacy to enforce the law, and the truth is 490 00:30:08,036 --> 00:30:11,476 Speaker 1: he didn't. He was in charge of an institution that 491 00:30:11,516 --> 00:30:15,556 Speaker 1: the Catholics of Northern Ireland believed with good reason was 492 00:30:15,676 --> 00:30:18,756 Speaker 1: thoroughly sympathetic to the very people who had burned down 493 00:30:18,836 --> 00:30:21,836 Speaker 1: the houses of their friends and relatives the previous summer 494 00:30:22,556 --> 00:30:25,916 Speaker 1: and when the law is applied in the absence of legitimacy, 495 00:30:26,236 --> 00:30:31,196 Speaker 1: it does not produce obedience, it produces the opposite. It 496 00:30:31,316 --> 00:30:35,636 Speaker 1: leads to backlash. The great puzzle of Northerland is why 497 00:30:35,716 --> 00:30:39,396 Speaker 1: it took to British so long to understand this. In 498 00:30:39,516 --> 00:30:44,156 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine, the troubles resulted in thirteen deaths, seventy 499 00:30:44,156 --> 00:30:49,396 Speaker 1: three shootings, and eight bombings. In nineteen seventy, Freeland decided 500 00:30:49,556 --> 00:30:52,876 Speaker 1: to get tough with thugs and gunmen, warning that anyone 501 00:30:52,996 --> 00:30:57,436 Speaker 1: caught throwing gasoline bombs was liable to be shot. What happened, 502 00:30:58,396 --> 00:31:03,396 Speaker 1: The historian Desmond Hamil rights. The IRA retaliated by saying 503 00:31:03,436 --> 00:31:07,196 Speaker 1: that they would shoot soldiers if irishmen were shot. The 504 00:31:07,316 --> 00:31:11,916 Speaker 1: Protestant Ulster Volunteer Horse, an extreme and illegal paramilitary unit, 505 00:31:12,156 --> 00:31:15,436 Speaker 1: quickly joined in, offering to shoot a Catholic in return 506 00:31:15,516 --> 00:31:19,436 Speaker 1: for every soldier shot by the IRA. The Times quoted 507 00:31:19,476 --> 00:31:24,276 Speaker 1: a Belfast citizen saying, anyone who isn't confused here doesn't 508 00:31:24,356 --> 00:31:28,476 Speaker 1: really understand what is going on. That year, there were 509 00:31:28,556 --> 00:31:32,156 Speaker 1: twenty five deaths, two hundred and thirteen shootings, and one 510 00:31:32,196 --> 00:31:36,516 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty five bombings. The British stood firm. They 511 00:31:36,596 --> 00:31:40,236 Speaker 1: cracked down even harder, and in nineteen seventy one there 512 00:31:40,276 --> 00:31:43,556 Speaker 1: were one hundred and eighty four deaths, one thousand and 513 00:31:43,716 --> 00:31:47,396 Speaker 1: twenty bombings and one thousand and seven hundred and fifty 514 00:31:47,436 --> 00:31:51,196 Speaker 1: six shootings. Then the British drew a line in the sand. 515 00:31:51,836 --> 00:31:57,076 Speaker 1: The Army instituted a policy known as internment. Civil rights 516 00:31:57,116 --> 00:32:00,556 Speaker 1: in Northern Ireland were suspended, The country was flooded with 517 00:32:00,636 --> 00:32:04,636 Speaker 1: troops and the Army declared that anyone suspected of terrorist 518 00:32:04,676 --> 00:32:09,556 Speaker 1: activities would be arrested and held in prison indefinitely without 519 00:32:09,676 --> 00:32:13,756 Speaker 1: charges or trial. So many young Catholic men were rounded 520 00:32:13,836 --> 00:32:16,756 Speaker 1: up during in tournament that in a neighborhood like Balamurphy, 521 00:32:17,036 --> 00:32:20,036 Speaker 1: everyone had a brother, or a father or a cousin 522 00:32:20,076 --> 00:32:23,436 Speaker 1: in prison. If that many people in your life have 523 00:32:23,556 --> 00:32:27,156 Speaker 1: served time behind bars, does the law seem fair anymore? 524 00:32:27,876 --> 00:32:31,036 Speaker 1: Does it seem predictable? Does it seem like you can 525 00:32:31,076 --> 00:32:34,956 Speaker 1: speak up and be heard? Things got even worse. In 526 00:32:35,076 --> 00:32:38,316 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy two, there were one thousand, four hundred and 527 00:32:38,396 --> 00:32:42,356 Speaker 1: ninety five shootings, five hundred and thirty one armed robberies, 528 00:32:42,636 --> 00:32:46,036 Speaker 1: one thousand, nine hundred and thirty one bombings, and four 529 00:32:46,116 --> 00:32:49,996 Speaker 1: hundred and ninety seven people killed. One of those four 530 00:32:50,076 --> 00:32:53,076 Speaker 1: hundred and ninety seven was a seventeen year old boy 531 00:32:53,396 --> 00:32:59,996 Speaker 1: named Amen. Amen was Rosemary Lawler's little brother. Amen appeared 532 00:33:00,036 --> 00:33:03,436 Speaker 1: at my door. Lawlers said, he said to me, I'd 533 00:33:03,516 --> 00:33:05,716 Speaker 1: love to stay here for a day or two, and 534 00:33:05,836 --> 00:33:09,476 Speaker 1: I said, why don't you? He said, I would have 535 00:33:09,476 --> 00:33:13,036 Speaker 1: a fit, she would go ballistic. Then he confided in 536 00:33:13,156 --> 00:33:16,036 Speaker 1: myself and my husband that he was getting harassed by 537 00:33:16,036 --> 00:33:19,916 Speaker 1: the British Army every time he was out, every corner 538 00:33:19,956 --> 00:33:23,596 Speaker 1: he turned, everywhere he went, they were stopping him and 539 00:33:23,716 --> 00:33:27,156 Speaker 1: they threatened him. Was he actually working with the IRA. 540 00:33:27,836 --> 00:33:30,996 Speaker 1: She didn't know, and she said it didn't matter. We 541 00:33:31,076 --> 00:33:34,236 Speaker 1: were all suspects in their eyes. She went on, that's 542 00:33:34,276 --> 00:33:37,916 Speaker 1: the way it was. And Aimon was shot shot by 543 00:33:37,916 --> 00:33:40,996 Speaker 1: a British soldier. Him and another fellow were having a 544 00:33:41,116 --> 00:33:44,476 Speaker 1: smoke and one shot rang out and Aimen got it. 545 00:33:45,276 --> 00:33:48,596 Speaker 1: He lived for eleven weeks. He died on the sixteenth 546 00:33:48,636 --> 00:33:51,556 Speaker 1: of January, at seventeen and a half years of age. 547 00:33:52,236 --> 00:33:55,956 Speaker 1: She began to tear up. My father never worked again 548 00:33:55,996 --> 00:34:00,716 Speaker 1: at the dock. My mother was destroyed, heartbroken. It's forty 549 00:34:00,796 --> 00:34:05,156 Speaker 1: years ago. This year. It's still rough. Lolla was a 550 00:34:05,236 --> 00:34:08,236 Speaker 1: young wife and mother living what she had expected would 551 00:34:08,236 --> 00:34:11,676 Speaker 1: be a normal life in modern Belfast. But then she 552 00:34:11,796 --> 00:34:15,876 Speaker 1: lost her home. She was threatened and harrassed. Her relatives 553 00:34:15,876 --> 00:34:19,156 Speaker 1: down the hill were imprisoned in their homes. Her brother 554 00:34:19,276 --> 00:34:22,276 Speaker 1: was shot and killed. She never wanted any of it, 555 00:34:22,556 --> 00:34:24,876 Speaker 1: nor asked for any of it, nor could even make 556 00:34:24,956 --> 00:34:28,956 Speaker 1: sense of what happened. That was my life, my whole 557 00:34:28,996 --> 00:34:32,596 Speaker 1: new life, she said. And then this was forced upon me, 558 00:34:33,396 --> 00:34:35,876 Speaker 1: and I go, this is not right. Do you know? 559 00:34:36,796 --> 00:34:39,076 Speaker 1: Here are my people I grew up within school being 560 00:34:39,116 --> 00:34:42,436 Speaker 1: burnt out of their houses. The British Army that came 561 00:34:42,476 --> 00:34:45,316 Speaker 1: in to protect us has now turned on us and 562 00:34:45,396 --> 00:34:49,796 Speaker 1: has rackin and ruinin. I became hooked. I don't mean 563 00:34:49,836 --> 00:34:53,276 Speaker 1: that flippantly. I became that way because I can't sit 564 00:34:53,396 --> 00:34:56,276 Speaker 1: in the house while this is going on. I can't 565 00:34:56,316 --> 00:35:00,596 Speaker 1: be a nine to five mother. People call it the troubles, 566 00:35:00,636 --> 00:35:04,996 Speaker 1: she continued. It was war. The British Army was out 567 00:35:04,996 --> 00:35:07,716 Speaker 1: there with armored cars and weapons and you name it. 568 00:35:07,956 --> 00:35:11,316 Speaker 1: That's a war zone lived in the British Army came 569 00:35:11,356 --> 00:35:14,036 Speaker 1: in here with every means that they had available to 570 00:35:14,036 --> 00:35:17,316 Speaker 1: put us down, and we were like rubber dolls. We'd 571 00:35:17,316 --> 00:35:20,116 Speaker 1: just bounced back up again. Don't get me wrong, we 572 00:35:20,196 --> 00:35:22,556 Speaker 1: got hurt on the way down. A lot of people 573 00:35:22,596 --> 00:35:26,276 Speaker 1: had heartache. I suffered from anger for a long long time, 574 00:35:26,476 --> 00:35:29,636 Speaker 1: and I've apologized to my children for that. But the 575 00:35:29,756 --> 00:35:34,676 Speaker 1: circumstances dictated that it wasn't how I was. I wasn't 576 00:35:34,716 --> 00:35:38,636 Speaker 1: born that way. This was forced upon me. Malcolm will 577 00:35:38,676 --> 00:35:41,036 Speaker 1: finish reading from this chapter of his book David and 578 00:35:41,076 --> 00:35:47,836 Speaker 1: Goliath when we come back. We're back with the rest 579 00:35:47,836 --> 00:35:52,516 Speaker 1: of Malcolm's chapter from David and Goliath. When General Freeland's 580 00:35:52,516 --> 00:35:55,756 Speaker 1: men descended on the Lower Falls, the first thing the 581 00:35:55,756 --> 00:35:59,236 Speaker 1: neighbors did was to run to Saint Peter's Cathedral, the 582 00:35:59,356 --> 00:36:03,236 Speaker 1: local Catholic church, just a few blocks away. The defining 583 00:36:03,316 --> 00:36:05,956 Speaker 1: feature of the Lower Falls, like so many of the 584 00:36:05,956 --> 00:36:11,036 Speaker 1: other Catholic neighborhoods of West Belfast, was its legiosity. Saint 585 00:36:11,036 --> 00:36:14,716 Speaker 1: Peter's was the heart of the neighborhood. Four hundred people 586 00:36:14,716 --> 00:36:18,596 Speaker 1: would attend mass at Saint Peter's on a typical week day. 587 00:36:18,756 --> 00:36:22,516 Speaker 1: The most important man in the community was the local priest. 588 00:36:23,356 --> 00:36:26,916 Speaker 1: He came running. He went up to the soldiers The 589 00:36:27,036 --> 00:36:29,916 Speaker 1: raid must be done quickly, he warned them, or they 590 00:36:29,956 --> 00:36:34,156 Speaker 1: would be trouble. Forty five minutes passed, and the soldiers 591 00:36:34,156 --> 00:36:38,996 Speaker 1: emerged with their hall fifteen pistols, a rifle, a Schmeisser's 592 00:36:38,996 --> 00:36:43,156 Speaker 1: submachine gun, and a cache of explosives and ammunition. The 593 00:36:43,276 --> 00:36:46,676 Speaker 1: patrol packed up and left, turning onto a side street 594 00:36:46,716 --> 00:36:49,316 Speaker 1: that would take them out of the lower Falls. In 595 00:36:49,396 --> 00:36:52,556 Speaker 1: the interim, however, a small crowd had gathered, and as 596 00:36:52,596 --> 00:36:55,476 Speaker 1: the armored cars turned the corner, a number of young 597 00:36:55,516 --> 00:36:59,036 Speaker 1: men ran forward and started throwing stones at the soldiers. 598 00:36:59,756 --> 00:37:04,356 Speaker 1: The patrol stopped. The crowd grew angry. The soldiers responded 599 00:37:04,356 --> 00:37:09,796 Speaker 1: with teargas. The crowd grew angrier. Stones turned to petrol bombs, 600 00:37:09,796 --> 00:37:13,396 Speaker 1: and petrol bombs to bullets. A taxi driver said he 601 00:37:13,436 --> 00:37:17,356 Speaker 1: had seen someone carrying a submachine gun heading for Balkan Street. 602 00:37:17,996 --> 00:37:21,396 Speaker 1: The riders set up roadblocks to slow the armies advance. 603 00:37:21,956 --> 00:37:25,196 Speaker 1: A truck was set ablaze one block away, blocking the 604 00:37:25,276 --> 00:37:28,716 Speaker 1: end of the street. The soldiers fired even more tear 605 00:37:28,756 --> 00:37:31,796 Speaker 1: gas until the wind had carried it clear across the 606 00:37:31,876 --> 00:37:37,076 Speaker 1: Lower Falls. The crowd grew angrier. Still, why did the 607 00:37:37,076 --> 00:37:41,436 Speaker 1: patrol stop? Why didn't they just keep going lingering in 608 00:37:41,476 --> 00:37:43,996 Speaker 1: the neighborhood is exactly what the priests told them not 609 00:37:44,196 --> 00:37:47,516 Speaker 1: to do. The priests went back to the soldiers and 610 00:37:47,796 --> 00:37:50,796 Speaker 1: pleaded with them again. If they stopped the tear gas, 611 00:37:50,796 --> 00:37:53,996 Speaker 1: he said he would get the crowd to stop throwing stones. 612 00:37:54,876 --> 00:37:58,556 Speaker 1: The soldiers didn't listen. Their instructions were to get tough 613 00:37:58,716 --> 00:38:01,716 Speaker 1: and be seen to get tough with thugs and gunmen. 614 00:38:02,356 --> 00:38:05,156 Speaker 1: The priests turned back towards the crowd. As he did, 615 00:38:05,396 --> 00:38:08,676 Speaker 1: the soldiers fired off another round of tear gas. The 616 00:38:08,756 --> 00:38:11,316 Speaker 1: canisters fell at the feet of the priest, and he 617 00:38:11,356 --> 00:38:14,436 Speaker 1: staggered across the street, leaning on a window sill as 618 00:38:14,436 --> 00:38:18,316 Speaker 1: he gasped for air. In a neighborhood so devout that 619 00:38:18,436 --> 00:38:20,916 Speaker 1: four hundred people would show up a mass on a 620 00:38:20,956 --> 00:38:26,076 Speaker 1: typical weekday, the British Army gassed the priest. That was 621 00:38:26,076 --> 00:38:30,556 Speaker 1: when the riots started. Freeland called in reinforcements to subdue 622 00:38:30,556 --> 00:38:34,636 Speaker 1: a community of eight thousand people packed into tiny houses 623 00:38:34,676 --> 00:38:38,636 Speaker 1: along narrow streets. The British brought in three thousand troops, 624 00:38:39,116 --> 00:38:42,756 Speaker 1: and not just any troops to a fiercely Catholic neighborhood. 625 00:38:42,956 --> 00:38:46,316 Speaker 1: Freeland brought in soldiers from the Royal Scots, one of 626 00:38:46,356 --> 00:38:50,356 Speaker 1: the most obviously and self consciously Protestant regiments in the 627 00:38:50,596 --> 00:38:55,836 Speaker 1: entire Army. Army helicopters circled overhead, ordering the residence by 628 00:38:55,956 --> 00:38:59,876 Speaker 1: megaphone to stay inside their homes. Row blogs were placed 629 00:38:59,876 --> 00:39:03,756 Speaker 1: at every exit, a curfew was declared and a systematic 630 00:39:03,796 --> 00:39:07,636 Speaker 1: house by house search began. Twenty and twenty one year 631 00:39:07,676 --> 00:39:11,876 Speaker 1: old soldiers, still smarting from the indignity of being pelted 632 00:39:11,916 --> 00:39:15,476 Speaker 1: with stones and petrol bombs, forced their way into home 633 00:39:15,596 --> 00:39:20,836 Speaker 1: after home, punching holes in walls and ceilings, ransacking bedrooms. 634 00:39:21,356 --> 00:39:24,316 Speaker 1: Listened to one of those British soldiers looking back on 635 00:39:24,396 --> 00:39:27,996 Speaker 1: what happened that night. A guy still in his pajamas 636 00:39:28,036 --> 00:39:31,556 Speaker 1: came out, cursing, wielding a lamp and waxed stand across 637 00:39:31,596 --> 00:39:34,716 Speaker 1: the head stand, dodged the next one and decked the 638 00:39:34,716 --> 00:39:37,796 Speaker 1: bloke with his rifle butt. I knew full well that 639 00:39:37,836 --> 00:39:40,436 Speaker 1: a lot of the lads were taking this opportunity to 640 00:39:40,556 --> 00:39:44,436 Speaker 1: vent their anger over things already done. Heads were being 641 00:39:44,516 --> 00:39:48,276 Speaker 1: cracked and houses trashed from top to bottom. Everything in 642 00:39:48,316 --> 00:39:51,316 Speaker 1: the houses became a mass of rubble, but out of 643 00:39:51,316 --> 00:39:56,276 Speaker 1: the blur, little sharp details still cut through school photos, 644 00:39:56,876 --> 00:40:04,036 Speaker 1: smiley family pictures, cracked trinkets and crucifixes, stamped kids crying, 645 00:40:04,556 --> 00:40:08,316 Speaker 1: crunching on the glass of the Pope's picture, unfinished meals 646 00:40:08,316 --> 00:40:11,916 Speaker 1: and bad wall paper, colored toys and TV noise and 647 00:40:12,076 --> 00:40:16,996 Speaker 1: radio crackle, painted plates, shoes, a body in the hall 648 00:40:17,516 --> 00:40:20,636 Speaker 1: flattened against the wall. This is when I did feel 649 00:40:20,636 --> 00:40:25,516 Speaker 1: like we'd invaded. Three hundred and thirty seven people were 650 00:40:25,596 --> 00:40:30,756 Speaker 1: arrested that night. Sixty were injured. Charles O'Neill, a disabled 651 00:40:30,836 --> 00:40:33,476 Speaker 1: Air Force veteran, was run over and killed by a 652 00:40:33,556 --> 00:40:37,156 Speaker 1: British armored car. As his body lay on the ground, 653 00:40:37,516 --> 00:40:40,316 Speaker 1: one of the soldiers poked a bystander with a baton 654 00:40:40,356 --> 00:40:43,916 Speaker 1: and said, move on, you Irish bastard. There were not 655 00:40:44,036 --> 00:40:47,276 Speaker 1: enough of you dead. A man named Thomas Burns was 656 00:40:47,276 --> 00:40:49,836 Speaker 1: shot by a soldier on the Falls Road at eight 657 00:40:49,876 --> 00:40:52,516 Speaker 1: pm as he stood with a friend who was boarding 658 00:40:52,596 --> 00:40:55,676 Speaker 1: up the windows of his store. When his sister came 659 00:40:55,716 --> 00:40:58,316 Speaker 1: to pick up his body, she was told he had 660 00:40:58,356 --> 00:41:01,956 Speaker 1: no business being on the street at that time. At 661 00:41:01,956 --> 00:41:06,076 Speaker 1: eleven PM, an elderly man named Patrick Ellman, thinking the 662 00:41:06,116 --> 00:41:08,996 Speaker 1: worst was over, went out at his bedroom slippers and 663 00:41:09,196 --> 00:41:13,556 Speaker 1: shirt sleeves for a pre bedtime stroll. He died in 664 00:41:13,596 --> 00:41:17,356 Speaker 1: a burst of army gunfire. One of the neighborhood accounts 665 00:41:17,356 --> 00:41:21,596 Speaker 1: of the curfew says of Ellman's death that very night 666 00:41:21,916 --> 00:41:26,556 Speaker 1: British troops actually entered and courted themselves in the shopman's home, 667 00:41:27,156 --> 00:41:30,276 Speaker 1: the distraught sister having been moved to the other brothers 668 00:41:30,316 --> 00:41:34,676 Speaker 1: up the street. This tasteless intrusion into the abandoned home 669 00:41:34,796 --> 00:41:38,156 Speaker 1: was discovered the next afternoon during the interval and the curfew, 670 00:41:38,796 --> 00:41:41,236 Speaker 1: when the brother with his daughter and son in law 671 00:41:41,436 --> 00:41:44,436 Speaker 1: went down to the house and found the door broken down, 672 00:41:44,836 --> 00:41:48,796 Speaker 1: a window broken, kit lying on the floor, shaving tackle 673 00:41:48,836 --> 00:41:53,196 Speaker 1: on the settee, and used cups in his scullery. Neighbors 674 00:41:53,196 --> 00:41:55,956 Speaker 1: informed them that the soldiers had dust down in the 675 00:41:56,036 --> 00:42:01,556 Speaker 1: upstairs rooms as well, a door broken down, a window broken, 676 00:42:02,356 --> 00:42:06,436 Speaker 1: dirty dishes left in the sink. Ladies and Wolf believed 677 00:42:06,596 --> 00:42:10,676 Speaker 1: that all the counts are rules and rational principles, but 678 00:42:10,836 --> 00:42:13,836 Speaker 1: what actually matters are the hundreds of small things that 679 00:42:13,916 --> 00:42:18,716 Speaker 1: the powerful dew or don't do to establish their legitimacy, 680 00:42:18,916 --> 00:42:20,996 Speaker 1: like sleeping in the bed of an innocent man you 681 00:42:21,116 --> 00:42:25,356 Speaker 1: just shot accidentally and scattering your belongings around his house. 682 00:42:26,516 --> 00:42:30,276 Speaker 1: By Sunday morning, the situation inside the Lower Falls was 683 00:42:30,356 --> 00:42:34,156 Speaker 1: growing desperate. The Lower Falls was not a wealthy neighborhood. 684 00:42:34,556 --> 00:42:37,356 Speaker 1: Many of the adults were unemployed, or if they were not, 685 00:42:37,676 --> 00:42:41,556 Speaker 1: relied on piecework. The streets were crowded and the homes 686 00:42:41,556 --> 00:42:45,676 Speaker 1: were narrow, cheaply built nineteenth century terraced red brick row 687 00:42:45,756 --> 00:42:49,636 Speaker 1: houses with one room to a floor and bathrooms in 688 00:42:49,676 --> 00:42:53,996 Speaker 1: the backyard. Very few houses had a refrigerator. They were 689 00:42:54,076 --> 00:42:57,676 Speaker 1: dark and damp. People bought bread daily because it grew 690 00:42:57,716 --> 00:43:01,796 Speaker 1: moldy otherwise, but the curfew was now thirty six hours 691 00:43:01,796 --> 00:43:05,596 Speaker 1: old and there was no bread left. The Catholic neighborhoods 692 00:43:05,596 --> 00:43:09,716 Speaker 1: of West Belfast are packed so tightly together, linked by 693 00:43:09,716 --> 00:43:12,916 Speaker 1: so many ties of marriage and blood, that words spread 694 00:43:12,996 --> 00:43:15,556 Speaker 1: quickly from one to the next about the plight of 695 00:43:15,556 --> 00:43:20,876 Speaker 1: the Lower Falls. Harriet Carson walked through Balamurphy, banging together 696 00:43:20,916 --> 00:43:25,036 Speaker 1: the lids of pots. Next came a woman named Mary Drum. 697 00:43:25,196 --> 00:43:28,516 Speaker 1: She had a bullhorn. She began walking through the streets 698 00:43:28,756 --> 00:43:32,276 Speaker 1: shouting out to the women, come out, fill your prams 699 00:43:32,276 --> 00:43:35,316 Speaker 1: with bread and milk. The children haven't gotten any food. 700 00:43:36,356 --> 00:43:38,996 Speaker 1: The women started to gather in groups of two and four, 701 00:43:39,036 --> 00:43:42,196 Speaker 1: and ten and twenty, until they numbered in the thousands. 702 00:43:43,156 --> 00:43:45,756 Speaker 1: Some people still had their rollers in their hair and 703 00:43:45,836 --> 00:43:49,876 Speaker 1: their scarves over their head. Lawla remembers we linked arms 704 00:43:49,916 --> 00:43:54,196 Speaker 1: and sang, we shall overcome, We shall overcome. Some day 705 00:43:55,276 --> 00:43:57,076 Speaker 1: we got down to the bottom of the hill, she 706 00:43:57,196 --> 00:44:01,356 Speaker 1: went on. The atmosphere was electric. The Brits were standing 707 00:44:01,356 --> 00:44:05,196 Speaker 1: with their helmets and their guns already, their batons were out. 708 00:44:05,476 --> 00:44:08,916 Speaker 1: We turned and went down the Grosvenor Road, singing and shouting. 709 00:44:09,516 --> 00:44:12,476 Speaker 1: I think the Brits were in awe. They couldn't believe 710 00:44:12,476 --> 00:44:14,756 Speaker 1: that these women with prams were coming down to take 711 00:44:14,796 --> 00:44:18,116 Speaker 1: them on. I remember seeing one Brits standing there scratching 712 00:44:18,196 --> 00:44:20,876 Speaker 1: his head, going, what do we do with all these women? 713 00:44:21,476 --> 00:44:24,876 Speaker 1: Do we go into riot situation here? Then we turned 714 00:44:24,876 --> 00:44:28,436 Speaker 1: onto Slate Street where the school was my school, and 715 00:44:28,516 --> 00:44:31,316 Speaker 1: the Brits were there. They come flying out of the 716 00:44:31,356 --> 00:44:34,316 Speaker 1: school and there was hand to hand fighting. We got 717 00:44:34,316 --> 00:44:37,356 Speaker 1: the hair pulled out of us. The Brits just grabbed us, 718 00:44:37,396 --> 00:44:40,036 Speaker 1: threw us up against the walls. Oh aye, They beat 719 00:44:40,116 --> 00:44:42,356 Speaker 1: us like and if you fell you had to get 720 00:44:42,396 --> 00:44:44,476 Speaker 1: up very quickly because you didn't want to get trampled. 721 00:44:45,156 --> 00:44:48,676 Speaker 1: They came out with brutality. I remember standing up on 722 00:44:48,716 --> 00:44:50,276 Speaker 1: top of a car and having a look at what 723 00:44:50,396 --> 00:44:52,596 Speaker 1: was going on in the front. Then I saw a 724 00:44:52,636 --> 00:44:55,436 Speaker 1: man with shaving cream on his face and putting his 725 00:44:55,516 --> 00:44:58,956 Speaker 1: braces on, and all of a sudden, the soldiers stopped 726 00:44:58,956 --> 00:45:02,636 Speaker 1: beating us. The man putting his braces on was the 727 00:45:02,716 --> 00:45:06,716 Speaker 1: commanding officer of the Slate Street checkpoint. He might have 728 00:45:06,756 --> 00:45:08,956 Speaker 1: been the only voice of sanity on the British side 729 00:45:09,156 --> 00:45:12,756 Speaker 1: that day, the only one who understood the full dimensions 730 00:45:12,796 --> 00:45:17,316 Speaker 1: of the catastrophe unfolding. A heavily armed group of soldiers 731 00:45:17,676 --> 00:45:21,396 Speaker 1: was beating up a group of pram pushing women coming 732 00:45:21,396 --> 00:45:25,116 Speaker 1: to feed the children of the lower Falls. He told 733 00:45:25,116 --> 00:45:28,796 Speaker 1: his men to stop. You have to understand the march 734 00:45:28,876 --> 00:45:31,156 Speaker 1: was still coming down the road and the people the 735 00:45:31,196 --> 00:45:33,476 Speaker 1: back hadn't a clue what was going on at the front. 736 00:45:33,836 --> 00:45:38,116 Speaker 1: Lawla went on. They kept coming, women were crying, People 737 00:45:38,196 --> 00:45:41,316 Speaker 1: started coming out of their houses, pulling people in because 738 00:45:41,356 --> 00:45:44,276 Speaker 1: they were so many injured. Once all the people started 739 00:45:44,276 --> 00:45:47,876 Speaker 1: coming out of their houses, the Brits lost control. Everyone 740 00:45:47,956 --> 00:45:50,756 Speaker 1: came out on the streets, hundreds and hundreds of people. 741 00:45:51,236 --> 00:45:54,436 Speaker 1: It was like a domino effect. One street that come out. 742 00:45:54,516 --> 00:45:57,396 Speaker 1: Next thing you know, doors are opening on another street, 743 00:45:57,596 --> 00:46:00,996 Speaker 1: another street, and another street. The Brits gave up. They 744 00:46:01,036 --> 00:46:04,156 Speaker 1: had their hands up. The women forced, and we forced, 745 00:46:04,196 --> 00:46:06,436 Speaker 1: and we forced until we got in, and we got 746 00:46:06,476 --> 00:46:10,196 Speaker 1: in and we broke the curfew. I've thought about it. God, 747 00:46:10,236 --> 00:46:13,236 Speaker 1: it was like everybody was jubilant. It was like we 748 00:46:13,476 --> 00:46:17,556 Speaker 1: did it. I remember coming home and suddenly felt very 749 00:46:17,596 --> 00:46:20,796 Speaker 1: shaky and upset and nervous about the whole episode. Do 750 00:46:20,836 --> 00:46:24,316 Speaker 1: you know. I remember speaking to my father about it afterward. 751 00:46:24,836 --> 00:46:29,316 Speaker 1: I said, Daddy, your words came true. They turned on us, 752 00:46:29,956 --> 00:46:34,036 Speaker 1: and he said, true, British army, that's what they do. 753 00:46:34,756 --> 00:46:38,396 Speaker 1: He was right. They turned on us and that was 754 00:46:38,436 --> 00:46:38,996 Speaker 1: the start of it.