1
00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:07,640
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nisy Greece.

2
00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:18,439
Speaker 2: There was universal grief across our country when the star

3
00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:26,000
Speaker 2: of Friends, Matthew Perry died unexpectedly. But now we're finding

4
00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:31,240
Speaker 2: out what led up to the death of the TV superstar.

5
00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:34,879
Speaker 2: I mean's he grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you

6
00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:37,239
Speaker 2: for being with us here at Crime Stories and on

7
00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:41,960
Speaker 2: Sirius XM one eleven. First of all, the same way

8
00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:46,440
Speaker 2: I like to start every jury trial. Let me start

9
00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:48,760
Speaker 2: with the nine to one one call.

10
00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:59,800
Speaker 3: Listen three us and radio in part of the drowning process,

11
00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:03,080
Speaker 3: FU dreve tweeny three give us sign.

12
00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:09,320
Speaker 2: You can't tell a lot, but I learned something significant.

13
00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:11,000
Speaker 2: Let's hear that one more time, said.

14
00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:18,840
Speaker 3: Twenty three give us signs and radio in front of

15
00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:24,320
Speaker 3: the drowning across the dress. Twenty three, give us sign.

16
00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:29,560
Speaker 2: Now, some of those numbers are universal. Sometimes you hear

17
00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:34,160
Speaker 2: numbers across a police ban or on an ems that

18
00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:39,920
Speaker 2: are specific to that region. But what I'm hearing that

19
00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:42,960
Speaker 2: really jumps out at me is response to the drowning.

20
00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:48,160
Speaker 2: So at the beginning, it was believed that the Friends

21
00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:53,600
Speaker 2: Start died of drowning because that's what was reported to them.

22
00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:57,480
Speaker 2: But what do we really know take to listen to

23
00:01:57,520 --> 00:01:58,760
Speaker 2: our friends at crime Online.

24
00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:02,200
Speaker 4: The Los Angeles Metal Examiner determined that fifty four year

25
00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:06,040
Speaker 4: old Matthew Perry died from the acute effects of ketamine.

26
00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:11,280
Speaker 4: Other contributing factors listed were drowning, coronary artery disease, and

27
00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:15,680
Speaker 4: the effects of buprenorphine. Buprenorphine is used to treat opioid

28
00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:19,119
Speaker 4: use disorder. The manner of death has been ruled an accident.

29
00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:23,600
Speaker 2: Okay, see, I'm a trial lawyer, and that is why

30
00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:27,000
Speaker 2: the medical examiners and everybody at the crime lab would

31
00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:29,839
Speaker 2: go hide under their desk when they saw my beat

32
00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:33,400
Speaker 2: up Honda pulling up, because they knew I was going

33
00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:37,600
Speaker 2: to go through it line by line literally to make

34
00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:41,639
Speaker 2: sense of what they wrote down in their scientific findings,

35
00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:47,120
Speaker 2: what acute effects of ketamine. Other contributing factors were drowning,

36
00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:54,560
Speaker 2: coronary artery disease, prefer used to treat opioid disorder, manner

37
00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:58,600
Speaker 2: of death, accident. There's so much there. I could do

38
00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:01,800
Speaker 2: a whole flow charge on that to try to explain

39
00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:05,440
Speaker 2: all that to a jury. Luckily we have experts with us.

40
00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:07,160
Speaker 2: But first I'm going to go to a special guest

41
00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:10,920
Speaker 2: joining us. Miguel Melendez joining us senior writer for E

42
00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:15,959
Speaker 2: T Entertainment tonight. Miguel, what a pleasure to have you on. Man.

43
00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:19,920
Speaker 2: This sent shock waves through not only Hollywood but across

44
00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:22,120
Speaker 2: our country. Because I'm going to follow this up with

45
00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:26,280
Speaker 2: our shrink Karen Stark. We think we know Matthew Perry.

46
00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:28,880
Speaker 2: Why because we've seen him on the big screen, we've

47
00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:31,560
Speaker 2: seen him on the little screen. We follow him in

48
00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:34,920
Speaker 2: the tabloids. We think we know him and about his life.

49
00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:39,040
Speaker 2: We've been following his struggle with addiction, and a lot

50
00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:42,040
Speaker 2: of people can identify with that. If you haven't had

51
00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:45,520
Speaker 2: that struggle in somebody, you know, somebody close to you

52
00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:50,720
Speaker 2: has had that struggle. So Matthew Perry was kind of

53
00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:54,960
Speaker 2: like every man that was struggling with a lot. But

54
00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:58,080
Speaker 2: to you, Miguel Melendez, I want to go before I

55
00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:00,880
Speaker 2: get into Matthew Perry himself and how it ended up

56
00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:04,680
Speaker 2: this way, I want to talk to you about what happened,

57
00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:10,080
Speaker 2: what surrounded the discovery of Matthew Perry dead in a

58
00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:13,600
Speaker 2: hot tub leading up to that. Tell me about the

59
00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:17,359
Speaker 2: discovery and what came out at the time that he

60
00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:19,520
Speaker 2: was first discovered dead in the hot tub.

61
00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:21,280
Speaker 5: Right, So what we know of the timeline is that

62
00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:24,599
Speaker 5: at eleven AM, Matthew had played pickleball. At one thirty

63
00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:27,000
Speaker 5: seven PM is when Matthew was last known to be

64
00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:30,080
Speaker 5: alive by his personal living assistant to live with him

65
00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:33,640
Speaker 5: in the Pacific Policy home. He was off to run errands.

66
00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:37,200
Speaker 5: At one thirty seven PM, the living assistant returned home

67
00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:40,640
Speaker 5: and found Matthew floating face down in the jacuzzi. The

68
00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:43,839
Speaker 5: assistant jumped into the pool, moved Matthew into the sitting

69
00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:46,440
Speaker 5: position on the steps of the pool, and found him

70
00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:48,520
Speaker 5: by the way on the heated side of the pool.

71
00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:49,880
Speaker 6: Called nine one one.

72
00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:53,200
Speaker 5: Paramedics arrived and they moved and they pulled Matthew out

73
00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:53,599
Speaker 5: of the pus.

74
00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:56,800
Speaker 2: Okay, hold on, Miguel, you're giving me so much information

75
00:04:57,040 --> 00:04:59,800
Speaker 2: so quickly. I'm drinking from the fire hydrate because Miguel

76
00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,120
Speaker 2: and I like to dissect every single sentence. And I

77
00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:07,760
Speaker 2: loved everything you just said as far as factually what

78
00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:11,599
Speaker 2: I'm learning. Could you say it again and very slowly? Okay?

79
00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:13,960
Speaker 2: Did you say the living assistant found him?

80
00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:14,440
Speaker 7: Yes?

81
00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:18,960
Speaker 2: Okay. Why did Matthew Perry have a live and assistant that.

82
00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:21,160
Speaker 5: I can answer you, Nancy. I don't know the exact

83
00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:25,000
Speaker 5: circumstances of what led to that. I do know that

84
00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:27,719
Speaker 5: the living assistant, based on this report, is that he

85
00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:33,480
Speaker 5: administered the Detoks drugs on Matthew twice a day.

86
00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:37,000
Speaker 2: That's important. Miguel Melendez, hold on, Miguel, hold the thought.

87
00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:40,360
Speaker 2: Guys with me. He's a senior writer for entertainment tonight.

88
00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:44,080
Speaker 2: You all know him. Miguel Melndez giving us everything we

89
00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:50,000
Speaker 2: need to know to analyze this drug ketamine that claimed

90
00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:53,800
Speaker 2: the life of Matthew Perry. Karen el start joining me,

91
00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:58,799
Speaker 2: renowned TV radio trauma expert at Karenstark dot com. Karen

92
00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:01,720
Speaker 2: with the sea if you're trying to find her, Karen, So,

93
00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:06,440
Speaker 2: is it like a minder you have with AA that.

94
00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:09,000
Speaker 2: I don't think they call it a minder. They call

95
00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:12,200
Speaker 2: it something else, someone that checks in on you. It's

96
00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:15,480
Speaker 2: like your partner, your buddy, that kind of that's who

97
00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:17,840
Speaker 2: you call when you have a problem or you're going

98
00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:21,400
Speaker 2: to relapse. Is that what you think is happening here?

99
00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:22,960
Speaker 2: He had somebody to help him.

100
00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:24,320
Speaker 8: It's called a sponsor.

101
00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:31,040
Speaker 9: And his assistant she was his sponsor. She was his reminder.

102
00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:34,599
Speaker 9: As you said Nancy. So she was there. She could

103
00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:38,719
Speaker 9: not stop him from taking something, but certainly was trying.

104
00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:41,839
Speaker 9: That was her role to make sure that he was

105
00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:46,400
Speaker 9: on the straight and narrow and sticking to his determination

106
00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:50,080
Speaker 9: to stop. And he was very open about it. But

107
00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:54,400
Speaker 9: he really did want to stop taking drugs recreationally.

108
00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:58,360
Speaker 2: He really did, and he made no secret about it.

109
00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:03,680
Speaker 2: What let up to that moment Miguel Melndez is describing.

110
00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:08,920
Speaker 2: But first again, Miguel, could you tell me the assistant

111
00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:12,200
Speaker 2: comes in. You said he was near the heater end

112
00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:13,000
Speaker 2: of the hot tub.

113
00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:13,400
Speaker 6: Correct.

114
00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:16,760
Speaker 5: So at four pm, the living assistant walks in from

115
00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:22,440
Speaker 5: running errands finds Matthew Parry floating space down into jacuzi.

116
00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:23,800
Speaker 7: In the heated end of the pool.

117
00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:27,880
Speaker 5: The assistant jumped into the pool, moved Matthew into the

118
00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:31,040
Speaker 5: sitting position on the steps of the pool, and called

119
00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:35,040
Speaker 5: nine one one. Paramedics soon arrived, pulled Matthew out of

120
00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:38,040
Speaker 5: the pool onto the grass, where he was pronounced that

121
00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:38,880
Speaker 5: at the scene.

122
00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:41,080
Speaker 2: You know, I think I had it, bass akwars Migail Melendez.

123
00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:46,680
Speaker 2: I was saying hot tub because I've read Jacuzie. But

124
00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:50,280
Speaker 2: was the jacuzzi or the hot tub part of the pool.

125
00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:52,520
Speaker 2: Was he in a pool or was he in a

126
00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:54,040
Speaker 2: hot tub or jacuzi?

127
00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:56,240
Speaker 5: It looked like it was a long pool that has

128
00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:59,200
Speaker 5: a jacuzi And if they're not two separate.

129
00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:03,960
Speaker 2: Okay, that makes perfect sense. Okay, guys, what led up

130
00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:08,720
Speaker 2: to this moment? Take a listen to our friend Nicole Parton.

131
00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:11,560
Speaker 4: Matthew Perry went to his country club to play a

132
00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:15,600
Speaker 4: game of pickleball with friends around eleven am. Perry returned

133
00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:18,040
Speaker 4: to his home after the game and was seen by

134
00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:20,600
Speaker 4: his assistant, who was leaving the house to run errands

135
00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:24,200
Speaker 4: at one thirty seven PM. At four o'clock PM, the

136
00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:28,240
Speaker 4: assistant returned to the home. Investigator Jennifer Hertzog says the

137
00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:31,680
Speaker 4: assistant found Perry floating face down in the heated end

138
00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:34,360
Speaker 4: of the pool. The assistant jumped into the pool and

139
00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:37,240
Speaker 4: moved him into a sitting position on the steps and

140
00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:41,559
Speaker 4: called nine to one one. Paramedics responded, pulled Perry out

141
00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:44,240
Speaker 4: of the pool and onto the grass, and pronounced him

142
00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:48,439
Speaker 4: dead on the scene at four seventeen PM. His stepfather,

143
00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:52,240
Speaker 4: Keith Morrison is listed as the informant, which means the

144
00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:55,760
Speaker 4: dateline host is who identified Perry to authorities.

145
00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:58,960
Speaker 10: Oh my goodness, that mus have been so horrible on

146
00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:02,000
Speaker 10: the stepfather to have to do that after the struggle

147
00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:07,280
Speaker 10: Matthew Peerry went through so publicly against substance abuse.

148
00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:11,120
Speaker 2: Mike McCormick joining me out of LA owner lead investigator

149
00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:15,880
Speaker 2: mcm Investigations. Mike McCormick, thank you for being with us.

150
00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:20,760
Speaker 2: I'm very curious Matthew Perry had been so open and

151
00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:26,960
Speaker 2: public about his battle with addiction. Who I mean, even

152
00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:30,880
Speaker 2: I know about that two thousand miles away, who would

153
00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:35,400
Speaker 2: be supplying him drugs, ketamine and all the other things

154
00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:36,160
Speaker 2: in his system.

155
00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:41,199
Speaker 7: It was either prescribed to him that Kennedy was prescribed,

156
00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:43,840
Speaker 7: or he's getting it off the street. There's only several

157
00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:49,920
Speaker 7: ways of doing it. My understanding is that the from

158
00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:56,319
Speaker 7: he's a assistant or past girlfriend miss edwards that she's

159
00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:59,080
Speaker 7: been involved with him off and on from about two

160
00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:02,680
Speaker 7: thousand and six, and she used to purchase his drugs

161
00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:09,000
Speaker 7: off the street for him. So the ketamine and other

162
00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:14,439
Speaker 7: drugs he may have been taking could come from me

163
00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:15,400
Speaker 7: their source.

164
00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:33,880
Speaker 1: Prime Stories with Nancy Grace.

165
00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:39,720
Speaker 2: Migaim Melndez joining as senior writer Entertainment tonight, is that true?

166
00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:42,800
Speaker 2: I don't know that. Is that true? And can that

167
00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:47,000
Speaker 2: be corroborated that an ex girlfriend would score drugs for him?

168
00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:49,880
Speaker 5: Well, I don't know that the girlfriend and the assistant

169
00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:52,120
Speaker 5: are the same people. I do know that there was

170
00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:55,800
Speaker 5: a girlfriend who was his assistant at one time, and

171
00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:58,520
Speaker 5: she has gone on record and asked that you know

172
00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:00,880
Speaker 5: the doctors the investigated if they were the ones who

173
00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:06,120
Speaker 5: supplied the ketemine. Now she's gone record and said that

174
00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:09,720
Speaker 5: if that happened, and then this investigation needs to happen.

175
00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:11,360
Speaker 4: But whether the.

176
00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:13,920
Speaker 5: Assistant and this ex girlfriend are the same people, it

177
00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:16,760
Speaker 5: doesn't seem to indicate that that's what happened based on

178
00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:20,040
Speaker 5: the investigation and the details that are in the medical

179
00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:20,920
Speaker 5: examiner's report.

180
00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:25,920
Speaker 8: The assistant, this is Wendy Patrick. It looks like the

181
00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:28,719
Speaker 8: assistant that it was living with Matthew Perry at the

182
00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:32,560
Speaker 8: time his death is a man named Kenny a La Masa, right.

183
00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:37,720
Speaker 8: Not the prior. Not a prior girlfriend or a female assistant.

184
00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:40,880
Speaker 2: You're right, Wendy Patrick. Guys, you're hearing California prosecutor and

185
00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:45,760
Speaker 2: author of Why Bad Looks Good Wendy Patrick at wendypatrickphd

186
00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:49,800
Speaker 2: dot com. The Star of today with doctor Wendy on KCBQ.

187
00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:52,600
Speaker 2: I was just coming to you, Wendy on another point,

188
00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:56,560
Speaker 2: a legal point, and that is I saw the trial

189
00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:00,160
Speaker 2: go down. I don't know if you remember Archie Bunker

190
00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:03,720
Speaker 2: of All in the Family. Yeah, when his son died

191
00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:08,760
Speaker 2: of an overdose. He went after the supplier in the

192
00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:13,240
Speaker 2: Fulton County courthouse. And I was just wondering, Wendy about

193
00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:19,640
Speaker 2: people knowing about his public struggle against addiction. I mean,

194
00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:22,959
Speaker 2: he wrote about it, he talked about it, very open

195
00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:29,439
Speaker 2: about it. Who would supply someone battling addiction with drugs.

196
00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:30,920
Speaker 2: It's a great question.

197
00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:34,239
Speaker 8: When you're talking about somebody that's supposed to be a confidant,

198
00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:37,880
Speaker 8: a sponsor, a helper, a minder. We have all these terminology,

199
00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:41,360
Speaker 8: these terms that we use. It's very different than a

200
00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:45,640
Speaker 8: Michael Jackson situation, where you actually have somebody medically administering

201
00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:46,120
Speaker 8: a drug.

202
00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:47,200
Speaker 6: Who would do it?

203
00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:48,960
Speaker 8: I would have to say, Nancy, as you and I

204
00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:51,800
Speaker 8: and our listeners know the same people that are selling

205
00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:55,199
Speaker 8: drugs to begin with, maybe somebody that doesn't know him

206
00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:59,040
Speaker 8: well enough, or because it was prescribed lawfully for a

207
00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:04,080
Speaker 8: medicinal purpose, somebody that honestly although mistakenly thought that he

208
00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:07,840
Speaker 8: needed it or could handle it in different doses. You know, ketamine,

209
00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:11,360
Speaker 8: if it's being as supervised, is used certainly, not very

210
00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:13,840
Speaker 8: not as often as many other drugs. But you have

211
00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:16,360
Speaker 8: to believe whether or not somebody thought they might be

212
00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:18,560
Speaker 8: doing him a favor, if he was depressed, if he.

213
00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:23,480
Speaker 2: Was suicidal, they could not have been more wrong. And

214
00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:26,880
Speaker 2: if it comes out that we can find the supplier

215
00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:28,839
Speaker 2: or someone who ate it or a bet at him,

216
00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:31,240
Speaker 2: I eat to just think about this, Wendy Patrick about

217
00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:37,760
Speaker 2: criminal charges joining me right now? Is the expert in

218
00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:41,560
Speaker 2: this field as far as I'm concerned, The pre eminent

219
00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:49,280
Speaker 2: expert Doctor William Moroney, Medical examiner, toxicologist, pathologist, opioid treatment expert,

220
00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:56,199
Speaker 2: author of American Narcan, which is on Amazon. Doctor Moroney,

221
00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:59,400
Speaker 2: take a listen to what we've learned about the autopsy.

222
00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:03,480
Speaker 4: Matthew Perry's autopsy report doesn't say how or when Perry

223
00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:06,840
Speaker 4: used ketamine prior to his death, but the coroner ruled

224
00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:09,000
Speaker 4: out the ketamine treatments he had a week and a

225
00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:12,480
Speaker 4: half before his death because ketamine has a half life

226
00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:16,079
Speaker 4: of three to four hours or less. The report notes

227
00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:18,760
Speaker 4: at the high levels of ketamine found in his post

228
00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:22,880
Speaker 4: mortem blood specimens. The main lethal effects would be from

229
00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:29,360
Speaker 4: both cardiovascular overstimulation and respiratory depression. Drowning contributes due to

230
00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:32,920
Speaker 4: the likelihood of submersion into the pool as he lapsed

231
00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:34,520
Speaker 4: into unconsciousness.

232
00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:38,640
Speaker 2: And that's not all, doctor Moroni, wait for it. I

233
00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:42,880
Speaker 2: would never have imagine this goes into the cocktail.

234
00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:47,240
Speaker 4: The autopsy report noted Matthew Perry's history of chronic obstructive

235
00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:52,440
Speaker 4: pulmonary disease, emphysema, and diabetes. The report mentions Perry's past

236
00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:55,720
Speaker 4: drug use, but notes Perry had reportedly been cleaned for

237
00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:58,880
Speaker 4: nineteen months. The New York Post reports that in the

238
00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:02,960
Speaker 4: autopsy report, a comment is made about Perry undergoing ketamine

239
00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:06,600
Speaker 4: infusion therapy, most recently one and a half weeks before

240
00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:10,479
Speaker 4: his death. The report states ketamine treatments are for anxiety

241
00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:14,240
Speaker 4: and depression, but ketamine in the system couldn't be from

242
00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:17,920
Speaker 4: the infusion therapy. Doctor Bankole Johnson, one of the leading

243
00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:21,040
Speaker 4: neuroscientists and physicians in the field, tells The New York

244
00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:24,240
Speaker 4: Post that ketamine in Perry's system is more likely from

245
00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:25,680
Speaker 4: recreational use.

246
00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:34,840
Speaker 2: Male hormone testosterone injections, and there's one more ingredient. Why

247
00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:41,680
Speaker 2: was Matthew Perry getting injections of the male hormone testosterone? Listen.

248
00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:45,280
Speaker 11: According to Matthew Perry, he had been cleaned for nineteen months,

249
00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:48,240
Speaker 11: but The Daily Mail reports the actor died from an

250
00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:52,800
Speaker 11: overdose of the party drug ketamine. According to the autopsy report,

251
00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:56,440
Speaker 11: a detective who attended the scene of Perry's death said, quote,

252
00:15:56,640 --> 00:16:00,640
Speaker 11: during my investigation, no alcohol, illicit drugs or drug paraphernalia

253
00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:03,800
Speaker 11: were found unquote. The Daily Mail also claims the fifty

254
00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:07,160
Speaker 11: four year old was getting injections of the male hormone testosterone,

255
00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:10,480
Speaker 11: and an unnamed female associate claimed the injections were causing

256
00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:13,080
Speaker 11: him to be angry and mean for the last couple

257
00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:13,600
Speaker 11: of weeks.

258
00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:17,440
Speaker 2: From my point of view, doctor Maroney, as a lay

259
00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:21,360
Speaker 2: person and not a doctor an MD like you, if

260
00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:25,480
Speaker 2: something calls causes you to be angry and mean, it

261
00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:27,640
Speaker 2: makes me wonder if it also didn't jack up his

262
00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:32,400
Speaker 2: heart rate, this male testosterone injection. But I mean, I

263
00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:34,640
Speaker 2: don't know what to make of it, doctor Moroney. Because

264
00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:40,400
Speaker 2: you've got ketamine, you've got testosterone, you've got the opioid

265
00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:43,120
Speaker 2: treatment drug. There's so much going on there.

266
00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:48,560
Speaker 6: What you have is a cocktail of disaster because you

267
00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:54,720
Speaker 6: probably are dealing with multiple doctors that are not communicating,

268
00:16:55,360 --> 00:17:01,880
Speaker 6: nobody's coordinating his care. And if he's getting ketamine, as

269
00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:07,920
Speaker 6: it's said in the autopsy, there's ketamine contents in the stomach,

270
00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:13,240
Speaker 6: that would be ketamine pills. That's a rogue doctor, somebody

271
00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:18,040
Speaker 6: outside of good practice guidelines giving pills they have no

272
00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:21,800
Speaker 6: business giving. In addition to ketamine treatments.

273
00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:25,640
Speaker 2: I mean, is a ketamine used by vets so animals

274
00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:27,320
Speaker 2: don't have pain during operations.

275
00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:31,000
Speaker 6: Yeah, it helps with anesthesia for your cats and dogs,

276
00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:36,040
Speaker 6: but at low doses. It's been shown to be beneficial

277
00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:43,959
Speaker 6: in massively unstable major depressive disorder. But guess what that

278
00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:50,520
Speaker 6: acceptable therapy is nasal? It's a nasal spray with your psychiatrist.

279
00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:56,000
Speaker 2: What you're saying ketamine, which many people believe is just

280
00:17:56,119 --> 00:18:01,440
Speaker 2: used by veterinarians, now people are using it, and you're

281
00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:05,199
Speaker 2: saying that the only approved way for it to be

282
00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:08,280
Speaker 2: used by people is by a nasal spray.

283
00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:15,200
Speaker 12: The acceptable SDA approved supervised ketamine treatment is the growth.

284
00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:19,520
Speaker 12: See your psychiatrist, have an appointment, get a nasal spray,

285
00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:24,120
Speaker 12: and stay until you're stable and have a counseling session.

286
00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:27,160
Speaker 12: What you have here is somebody keeps saying, well, he's

287
00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:31,439
Speaker 12: in treatment, he's in recovery. He's not getting enough psychosocial

288
00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:38,000
Speaker 12: therapy because he's impaired, he's impulsive, he's processing poor decisions

289
00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:41,560
Speaker 12: because he doesn't have that counseling part linked to all

290
00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:42,359
Speaker 12: this medicine?

291
00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:44,560
Speaker 2: What is ketamine?

292
00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:51,960
Speaker 6: Ketamine is a class of medicine that works on transmitters

293
00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:53,160
Speaker 6: called glutamate.

294
00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:58,720
Speaker 2: Oh, dear Lord in Heaven, speak English man, What speak

295
00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:01,640
Speaker 2: English mean? Is this something I've got to worry about

296
00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:03,359
Speaker 2: they're going to have in the halls of my twins

297
00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:07,520
Speaker 2: high school? I mean, I hear about ecstasy, co marijuana,

298
00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:09,359
Speaker 2: blah blah blah blah. But ketamine.

299
00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:13,040
Speaker 6: Ketamine's been abused for twenty years in drug culture and

300
00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:13,600
Speaker 6: drug use.

301
00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:16,080
Speaker 2: But is it traded freely on the street.

302
00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:17,520
Speaker 6: It is on the street.

303
00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:19,879
Speaker 12: You can buy it, if you can ask for for

304
00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:21,359
Speaker 12: your dealer, they'll get you some.

305
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:24,800
Speaker 6: But it's FDA approved as a nasal spray. And he's

306
00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:26,800
Speaker 6: not getting the FDA approved version.

307
00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:29,320
Speaker 2: Okay, I heard somebody jumping in. Is it wind your

308
00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:31,080
Speaker 2: Karen Stark Karen.

309
00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:35,240
Speaker 9: It's used as a club drug. It started years ago, Nancy,

310
00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:40,320
Speaker 9: but it's continuing. People do use it recreationally, but it's exactly.

311
00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:44,320
Speaker 9: There are a lot of trials going on where they

312
00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:49,000
Speaker 9: are bychadelics to stop addiction, just the opposite of what

313
00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:53,240
Speaker 9: we have here and for depression, and that has to

314
00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:56,280
Speaker 9: be a trial because it's not FDA approved.

315
00:19:56,600 --> 00:20:01,960
Speaker 6: These are rogue doctors in rogue clinics. The only doctor

316
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,280
Speaker 6: that's probably legitimate here is the one giving the bupen orphine.

317
00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:08,399
Speaker 6: That's the hardest word to say, but in order to

318
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:10,879
Speaker 6: do that you have to have training. The rest of

319
00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:15,480
Speaker 6: these people doing ketamine rogue. They're outside the law, they're

320
00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:20,240
Speaker 6: outside good practice. We saw this with Anna, Nicole Smith,

321
00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:24,560
Speaker 6: Michael Jackson, Prince, all these rogue doctors treating all these

322
00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:27,160
Speaker 6: celebrities and you don't know who's around them.

323
00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:30,640
Speaker 2: Ketamine has been around and being abused for a long time.

324
00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:33,320
Speaker 2: We just don't know that much about it and we

325
00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:36,880
Speaker 2: don't see it as much. We don't it's not soaked

326
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:42,040
Speaker 2: into our national understanding as well. But as far as

327
00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:44,960
Speaker 2: I can remember that it's been called baby food, bump,

328
00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:50,840
Speaker 2: cat killer, cat valume, fort, Dodge, Green, Green, k kayland

329
00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:55,800
Speaker 2: k hole. There's a million slang words for ketamine. And

330
00:20:56,320 --> 00:21:00,439
Speaker 2: the first time I ever saw that what I was

331
00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:04,959
Speaker 2: prosecuting and somebody had it as an aside drug. They

332
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:09,680
Speaker 2: were dealing heroin, and they also had vitamin K. And

333
00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:12,000
Speaker 2: you're gonna laugh at this, Mike McCormick, I said, so,

334
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:15,359
Speaker 2: what's wrong with vitamin K? Because I didn't know what

335
00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:19,359
Speaker 2: that vitamin K was? Kennymine, and that was, oh gosh.

336
00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:22,560
Speaker 2: I was prosecuting a dope lord and he had a

337
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:25,800
Speaker 2: stash of vitamin K. That's the first time I heard

338
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:26,680
Speaker 2: about Kennemy.

339
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:29,919
Speaker 5: And Matthew Perry was not the first celebrity to be

340
00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:33,960
Speaker 5: open about the Kedemy therapy sessions. I mean, the week

341
00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:38,960
Speaker 5: before he died on December one, Christy Keagan was very

342
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:42,080
Speaker 5: open about the fact that she underwent Academy therapy session

343
00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:45,240
Speaker 5: to celebrate her birthday and she said on Instagram how

344
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:49,640
Speaker 5: she saw space and time and her late so late

345
00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:53,600
Speaker 5: son Jack is someone she saw during this therapy session.

346
00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:57,640
Speaker 5: So kennymy has kind of like sort of has come

347
00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:01,119
Speaker 5: into the conscientt as of late and now more because

348
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:04,200
Speaker 5: of Matthew Perry's death that you're seeing the horrible side

349
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:05,000
Speaker 5: effects that it can have.

350
00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:09,239
Speaker 2: So, Miguel Melndez from AT joining US, you're saying that

351
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:14,959
Speaker 2: it's common use among celebrities to what fight depression.

352
00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:17,439
Speaker 5: To fight depression, to figure themselves, to use them to

353
00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:20,560
Speaker 5: use it as a form of therapy. Christy Keegan is

354
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:24,199
Speaker 5: far from the only celebrity who has been open about

355
00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:30,000
Speaker 5: taking or undergoing academy therapy sessions. You have the lights

356
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,800
Speaker 5: of Sharon Osborne and Pete Davidson who have been open

357
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:37,840
Speaker 5: about this. But again, academy therapy session is not dangerous

358
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:41,399
Speaker 5: if it's done under supervision. As our doctor seen doctors

359
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:45,440
Speaker 5: heareff said, when you go rogue, and in this case,

360
00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:48,040
Speaker 5: it seems to indicate that that's what Matthew Perry did.

361
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:52,640
Speaker 5: You're going to see the fatal consequences, consequences, and that's

362
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:54,040
Speaker 5: just that's exactly what happened.

363
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:54,240
Speaker 7: Here.

364
00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 2: You're hearing Miguel Melendez, senior writer AT and I've gotta

365
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:01,760
Speaker 2: get everything he said, which is all correct, by the way,

366
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:06,439
Speaker 2: explain to me medically doctor William Moroney, renowned expert in

367
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:11,680
Speaker 2: this field. So when you have ketamine treatment with a doctor,

368
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:19,560
Speaker 2: you're saying ketamine is ingested nasally like through dristand the

369
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:23,320
Speaker 2: spray into your nose, and if it's used any other

370
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:26,360
Speaker 2: way than it's rogue. Do I have that riot, Maroni.

371
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:30,640
Speaker 6: The reason why it's rogue is the FDA approved spray

372
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:37,520
Speaker 6: comes with specific conditions, that you're observed, that they follow instructions,

373
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:40,480
Speaker 6: and that your safety comes first, and you really can't

374
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,600
Speaker 6: even drive to and from your session. You're supposed to

375
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:45,800
Speaker 6: have somebody take care of you. As soon as you

376
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 6: let somebody take ketamine pills, well, it's unobserved, it's uncontrolled,

377
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:54,120
Speaker 6: and it's clear there was ketamine in his stomach and

378
00:23:54,240 --> 00:24:00,520
Speaker 6: his level in his blood was exactly halfway between low

379
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:05,159
Speaker 6: anesthesia and high anesthesia. You don't have those levels when

380
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:11,239
Speaker 6: you're supervised. And the whole idea that ketamine therapy is

381
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:17,240
Speaker 6: matched to a psycho social treatment of behavioral counseling session.

382
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 6: That's where you make the changes. You have better insight,

383
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:24,359
Speaker 6: you have better processing and stress, and you're not impulsive.

384
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:27,399
Speaker 6: The last thing you want with impulsive behaviors with somebody

385
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:34,240
Speaker 6: in addiction is to put them on potosterone. That's insane. Well,

386
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:39,280
Speaker 6: everybody knows it makes you feel really good as a man.

387
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:43,520
Speaker 6: You're sixty years old, suddenly you feel thirty six, okay,

388
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,360
Speaker 6: but it comes at the price of frustration and anger

389
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:52,240
Speaker 6: and really short tempers. Add that to the impulsivity of

390
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 6: substance use disorder, and you could have, you know, a

391
00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 6: dark rabbit hole, a hidden monster in this and somebody

392
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 6: who's not going to listen to somebody when they say, oh,

393
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:06,960
Speaker 6: you know, it's taking a few too many ketamine pills.

394
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 6: Ketamine spray is not something you do every day. It's

395
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 6: once or twice a month with counseling session.

396
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:16,440
Speaker 2: And because he had the pills in his stomach still

397
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 2: at the time the autopsy, we know it was rogue

398
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:24,240
Speaker 2: ketamine and not the type used for infusion treatment. And

399
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,399
Speaker 2: of course you've got the other factor weighing into Matthew

400
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:31,639
Speaker 2: Pierre's death. Uh, and that is with all these drugs

401
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 2: in the system, he gets into the pool, the hot

402
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:39,120
Speaker 2: tub and it's not the first time. Take a listen

403
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:40,440
Speaker 2: to our cut thirteen.

404
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:44,640
Speaker 13: How you doing? It's a security from Beverly Hilton.

405
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:45,240
Speaker 5: Hi, what con on?

406
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 13: I need a paramedic, Faranily. I got a fourty six

407
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:49,159
Speaker 13: year old femail I found in the bathroom, but I

408
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 13: fell up. Guy right now, but they're requesting paramedic. Tw okay,

409
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 13: para fell about them. I'll love mccanneal. I'm not sure

410
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 13: she fellow she was in the bathroom with the water

411
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,440
Speaker 13: four four four three four. I'm sorry she sent round

412
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:00,920
Speaker 13: four three fourth fief okay, and they're not ethwift or

413
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:03,960
Speaker 13: anything else that's rowing four three four thirty four. Yeah, okay,

414
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 13: you don't know see your country of breathing at all.

415
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,120
Speaker 13: Apparently she wasn't breathing and she's toy six year old.

416
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 13: She was not breathing. Yeah, okay, but see you in

417
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,639
Speaker 13: a breathing I aw, I don't know, okay. With the

418
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,199
Speaker 13: first thing that called me was guy Ray and I okay,

419
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:18,119
Speaker 13: much out of it. Okay, you know gondrec card to

420
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 13: go in there now, Okay, we'll come to breathe her

421
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 13: fire over there with that person not breathing, there's kind

422
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 13: of like the first.

423
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 5: One still not breathing.

424
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 13: Yeah, that's correct. Okay, we'll get in there for not

425
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:24,879
Speaker 13: bringing it.

426
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:25,959
Speaker 8: Give me to the remplant.

427
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:28,440
Speaker 13: Can I get topr Yeah, we're going there now, are you.

428
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 6: Get me into the room.

429
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 13: Plank and trying to get kepr on trucks. Oh, I'm sorry,

430
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 13: uh no, because kept hanging up on us, kept hanging

431
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,200
Speaker 13: up on Youah, okay, right, we're good now, you know, okay, okay,

432
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 13: thank you give away.

433
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:41,439
Speaker 2: And there was water in Whitney Houston's lungs, indicating she

434
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:46,879
Speaker 2: was alive when she was submerged underwater. But according to

435
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 2: what we learn, the level of cocaine in Whitney Houston's

436
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:55,400
Speaker 2: body was not lethal, but it was enough to make

437
00:26:55,480 --> 00:27:00,399
Speaker 2: her unaware of the fact she was going underwater, and

438
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:05,159
Speaker 2: in an eerie twist, the same thing happens to her daughter.

439
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 2: To listen to our cut sixteen.

440
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,879
Speaker 11: The only child of Whitney Houston and Bobby Brown, Bobby

441
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 11: Christina Brown wanted to follow her mother's footsteps as a

442
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 11: singer and actress. Tyler Perry cast Bobby Christina Brown in

443
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:21,400
Speaker 11: his television series For Better or Worse and had high

444
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 11: praise for her work. In her personal life, she became

445
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 11: engaged in Nick Gordon, a friend of the family who

446
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,360
Speaker 11: lived with them from the age of twelve. Never officially

447
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 11: adopted by Whitney Houston and Bobby Brown, Bobby Christina Brown

448
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 11: referred to him as her Big bra online. Their engagement

449
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 11: shocked many. On January thirty first, twenty fifteen, Nick Gordon

450
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 11: found Bobby Christina face down unconscious in a bathtub in

451
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 11: her home in Alfaretta, Georgia.

452
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 2: And then just recently, we lose another celebrity, Aaron Carter

453
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 2: in our cut twenty one.

454
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:53,440
Speaker 11: As the younger brother of Nick Carter of the Bank

455
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,359
Speaker 11: Street Boys, Aaron Carter had a connection to the big time.

456
00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 11: He could sing, he could dance, and he had the

457
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 11: look with most teen idols when they're fifteen minutes is up.

458
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 11: Aaron Carter struggled. His first stint in a treatment facility

459
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:07,439
Speaker 11: was announced by his manager when the singer was just

460
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:09,919
Speaker 11: twenty three. Then a year later it was announced that

461
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,359
Speaker 11: he completed a twenty eight day rehab stint at the

462
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 11: Betty Ford Center. On November fourth, twenty twenty two, Aaron

463
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 11: Carter's housekeeper found his body in the bathtub at his home.

464
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 11: The Los Angeles County Department of Medical Examiner Corner ruled

465
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,280
Speaker 11: cause of death was attributed to drowning after inhaling die

466
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 11: floro ethane and taking the generic form of the brand

467
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 11: name Xanax. The report also indicated that Carter was incapacitated

468
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 11: while in the bathtub due to the effects of the

469
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 11: drugs he took, which contributed to his death by drowning.

470
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 11: Aaron Carter was thirty four.

471
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 2: You know Winny Patrick, California prosecutor and author. So many people,

472
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:51,479
Speaker 2: not just celebrities, die in pools and hot tubs after

473
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 2: too many drugs or too much alcohol.

474
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 8: Yeah, it's so unfortunate. You know, we only hear about

475
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 8: some of these famous people because they're famous. Think about

476
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 8: how many men and women, friends, neighbors, family members die

477
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 8: in the same way. But maybe don't just grab headlines.

478
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 8: It's one of the reasons we always want to reach

479
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 8: out sooner rather than later for people that are struggling.

480
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 8: And I like the way in that last clip they

481
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 8: talked a little bit about what happens after the fame.

482
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 5: You know.

483
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 8: One of the things that Matthew Perry said, he said,

484
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 8: taking kay is like being hit in the head with

485
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 8: a giant happy shovel, But the hangover outweighed the benefits.

486
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 8: And that's part of what I think celebrities are getting

487
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,840
Speaker 8: better at explaining and that yes, perhaps they're self medicating,

488
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 8: but it's not worth it in the end. And that's

489
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 8: one of the messages that Matthew Perry wanted to leave

490
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 8: us with.

491
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:43,560
Speaker 2: Karen Start joining us, a renownced psychologist. Karen, we know

492
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 2: that Matthew Perry told everyone he had been clean going

493
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 2: on two years? Is that common for addicts to insist

494
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 2: their claim.

495
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 9: Is tremendous amount of denio nancy because they really are

496
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 9: struggling in most cases to be clean. They don't want

497
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 9: to be addicted, but they're very, very susceptible. And when

498
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 9: you think about somebody who's famous like that, there are

499
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:15,400
Speaker 9: always people around who were willing to oblige them with

500
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 9: drugs and tempt them with drugs because they want to

501
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 9: make them happy, they want to be around the celebrity.

502
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 9: It's something that happens all the time. So I am

503
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 9: sure he was trying but obviously not succeeding, or that

504
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 9: ketamine would not have been there.

505
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 2: He had really been through a battle. I want you

506
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 2: to take a listen to our cut four our friends

507
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 2: from crime Online. Something I didn't know until after Matthew

508
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 2: Perry passed away after years of addiction.

509
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 14: Matthew Perry spent five months in the hospital after his

510
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 14: colon burst from prolonged opioid abuse. Perry says he was

511
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 14: in surgery for seven hours, in a coma for two weeks,

512
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,160
Speaker 14: and doctors told his family he had a two percent

513
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 14: chance of survivor. After leaving the hospital, Perry used a colossomy.

514
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 2: Bag for months.

515
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 1: Prime Stories with Nancy Grace.

516
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 2: You know doctor William Maroney joining us, the pre eminent

517
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 2: expert in this field. Doctor Moroney, I believe that if

518
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 2: my colon had burst from prolonged drug use, I would

519
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 2: go through hell in high water not to get addicted again.

520
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 2: But see that's me on the outside looking in because

521
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 2: I'm not addicted. Addicts tell me that they can't stop themselves.

522
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 6: What it is is there is an insight issue that

523
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 6: comes with substance use disorder. And the only way you

524
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 6: can rewire the brain. It's like rewiring a vacuum cleaner,

525
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 6: rewiring a radio, or you know, rewiring a power strip.

526
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 6: You rewire the brain, not by feeding the body drugs

527
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 6: just as a substitute, but in depth therapy, making selections,

528
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 6: looking at the trauma in your life, choosing not to

529
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:31,479
Speaker 6: be impulsive, choosing to process your stress. You have to

530
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 6: do that with another person, face to face. It's not

531
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 6: always about the drugs. He may have been clean from

532
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 6: heroin for two years, but his brain was not done

533
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 6: processing that. Impulsivity and impulsivity, poor processing, and lack of insight.

534
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 6: Those are the three things that substance use disorder people

535
00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 6: suffer with to every single for alcohol heroin. Okay, those

536
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 6: are the three things. And the only way through that

537
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 6: rewiring is with another person in a chair, face to face,

538
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 6: and that's just not being done today. Everybody wants a pill,

539
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 6: they want to quick fix, and these rogue doctors are

540
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 6: not getting people the therapy they need. In the end,

541
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 6: the same thing is going to happen. Somebody's going to

542
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 6: be investigated by the medical board. There'll be another trial

543
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:30,200
Speaker 6: in a year. Somebody's going to lose their license. And

544
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 6: it's so sad that Matthew Perry had to die this way.

545
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 2: Same thing with Michael Jackson, Conrad Murray. There was a trial,

546
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 2: he gets convicted. In the end he walks free, and

547
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 2: Michael Jackson still did same thing with Matthew Perry. A

548
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 2: bright light has been extinguished because of ketamine. And I

549
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 2: want to follow up with Miguel Melndez, Senior reporter Entertainment tonight. Miguel,

550
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 2: I had no idea that Matthew Perry had been through

551
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:09,760
Speaker 2: so much in his battle, even having his colon burst

552
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 2: from prolonged opioid abuse. But there's more. Miguel, Let's nowur

553
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:15,760
Speaker 2: cut five.

554
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 14: Two years after his near death experience, Matthew Perry goes

555
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 14: to a rehab facility in Switzerland. He wrote that he

556
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 14: faked pains and dumbs to get oxy conton during COVID.

557
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 14: He was also getting daily ketamine infusions. While at the facility,

558
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:32,799
Speaker 14: Perry needed to have surgery and was given propofol.

559
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 2: When he woke up eleven.

560
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 14: Hours later, he found out his heart had stopped for

561
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 14: five minutes, and during the long CPR process, eight of

562
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 14: his ribs were broken.

563
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:47,320
Speaker 2: The doctor then refused more mets. So this guy, Matthew Perry,

564
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 2: I mean, we look at him, Miguel, and we think, Wow,

565
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 2: he's famous, he's a star. He's got all this money

566
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 2: in this beautiful home. This guy was in a living

567
00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 2: hell that nobody knew about. I mean, he had his

568
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:06,520
Speaker 2: tom burst from opioid use. Then he dies essentially during

569
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:09,760
Speaker 2: a surgery, and all eight of his ribs are broken

570
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 2: during CPR, and yet he went back to his own hellhole.

571
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 2: He couldn't stop himself meguil.

572
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:18,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean it's tragic.

573
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 6: All these near death.

574
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:26,239
Speaker 5: Experiences rooted from his need of these substances, and he

575
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 5: wrote in his book that he thought that the only

576
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:32,319
Speaker 5: reason why he was revived and given CPR in such

577
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 5: aggressive manner was because the person performing the CPR said,

578
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 5: I can't let the guy from Friends die on my table.

579
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:45,320
Speaker 5: That can't happen on my watch. So in retrospect, Perry

580
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 5: asked himself, had I not been on Friends, would they

581
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:53,919
Speaker 5: have stopped giving me CPR after three minutes, and said

582
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:55,759
Speaker 5: they went five minutes. Wow, five of them.

583
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:56,360
Speaker 6: Wow.

584
00:35:56,640 --> 00:36:00,200
Speaker 5: And you talk about these drugs in his system. And

585
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 5: even when he was detoxing in the final episode of

586
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:07,400
Speaker 5: Friends in two thousand and four, when the episode ended

587
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:10,799
Speaker 5: and it all came to a close and everyone felt emotional,

588
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:13,359
Speaker 5: not just the cast and the crew, but everyone who

589
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,920
Speaker 5: was tuned in to that show, Parry himself said in

590
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,440
Speaker 5: his book that he felt nothing because the detox drug

591
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 5: that was in his system at the time made him

592
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 5: feel numb. So even in the happiest moments, or what

593
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 5: should have been the happiest moments of his life, he

594
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 5: felt nothing. And again, it all rooted because of the

595
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 5: substance issue that he's had for so long.

596
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 2: Miguel, you are bringing up a whole other issue, not

597
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 2: only the battle against addiction, but how it affects your

598
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 2: life day to day. He couldn't even feel regular emotions.

599
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, this morning, when I was driving

600
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 2: the twins to school, I was so happy just being

601
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:59,759
Speaker 2: with them. What a loss in your life, not to

602
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:05,320
Speaker 2: be able to fill all those wonderful things. And guys,

603
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 2: we're finding out now how his ketamine addiction began. Take

604
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:14,799
Speaker 2: your listen to Our Cut six Our Friend. Investigative reporter

605
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:15,720
Speaker 2: Nicole Parton.

606
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 4: Matthew Perry wrote about the ketamine infusions he received at

607
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 4: the Swiss clinic. He explained in his memoir that ketamine

608
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 4: quote has my name written all over it. They might

609
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:28,840
Speaker 4: as well have called it Maddie. The New York Post

610
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 4: reports that Perry described the drug as a giant exhale

611
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:36,280
Speaker 4: and said he would be blindfolded and listening to music

612
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:39,720
Speaker 4: when he got his injections. Perry also said he would

613
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:43,800
Speaker 4: disassociate during the infusions and often felt as if he

614
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:46,799
Speaker 4: were dying. Perry said he kept signing up for it

615
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:50,800
Speaker 4: because it was something different, and quote, anything different is good.

616
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 4: Taking kay is like being hit in the head with

617
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 4: a giant, happy shovel, but the hangover was rough and

618
00:37:57,760 --> 00:37:58,880
Speaker 4: outweighed the shovel.

619
00:37:59,360 --> 00:37:59,720
Speaker 1: Still.

620
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 4: In his memoir, Perry says ketamine was not for me.

621
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:08,279
Speaker 2: You know, dtr Maroney, ketamine is my new nightmare, my

622
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:12,320
Speaker 2: new nightmare because I've never known of it actually killing

623
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 2: anyone until now.

624
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:19,280
Speaker 6: Well, I think the ketamine awareness has went from zero

625
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:23,280
Speaker 6: to one hundred on our National barometer. But the whole

626
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 6: idea is effective, evidence based FDA proved ketamine treatment comes

627
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:34,800
Speaker 6: with counseling, and where we have rogue doctors and really

628
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:38,359
Speaker 6: dark rabbit holes is people are going to look for

629
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:42,280
Speaker 6: this stuff and not match it to the counseling. The

630
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:45,719
Speaker 6: lack of feeling that he had meant that he was

631
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:52,799
Speaker 6: just altered by drugs. Seeing people having emotions. You know,

632
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:56,400
Speaker 6: you talked about your kids. I got kids the same age.

633
00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:01,279
Speaker 6: Where's the celebrities with taking their kids the school? They

634
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 6: miss all that stuff. They're in they're in clinics, they're

635
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 6: in rehab, their their homes are in the hills, and

636
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 6: nobody had families out there. Let's get back to simple things.

637
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:15,240
Speaker 6: If you're going to do ketamine. You're going to seek

638
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:19,719
Speaker 6: it out. Seek out the FDA approved ketamine, the counseling,

639
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:25,400
Speaker 6: the psychiatrist of behavioral health clinics, not the rogue. Rogue

640
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 6: leads to death.

641
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 2: You know one thing that Matthew Perry said, He said

642
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:34,279
Speaker 2: that when I ever die, I'm probably going to be

643
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:38,239
Speaker 2: remembered from my role in friends. But what I want

644
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:42,440
Speaker 2: to be remembered for is how I helped people and

645
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 2: maybe helped them get out of or avoid addiction. And

646
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:52,760
Speaker 2: he has done that. He has helped so many people,

647
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:59,799
Speaker 2: and he's helping us now spreading the word about ketamine

648
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 2: and how it can kill. Matthew Perry, God willing rest

649
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:08,840
Speaker 2: in peace, good Bye friend,