WEBVTT - Ep. 324: The Latvian Eagle's Heavy-Assed Arrow 0:00:00.680 --> 0:00:06.280 Hey, listen, man, Uh, we got a neighbor. You're not recording, Sorry, Phil, 0:00:08.119 --> 0:00:11.719 He's always recording. Okay, I got a neighbor. Um. I 0:00:11.720 --> 0:00:14.240 don't want to say their name. Their family love sports. 0:00:15.120 --> 0:00:17.400 They used to play sports. The parents used to play sports. 0:00:17.760 --> 0:00:19.640 So for them to spend every weekend going to sports 0:00:19.760 --> 0:00:21.959 is a real treaty. I'm not telling them not to 0:00:22.000 --> 0:00:23.360 do that. That's what I'm saying. I'm saying I don't 0:00:23.360 --> 0:00:25.639 want to do that. They don't want to go ice fish. 0:00:25.680 --> 0:00:27.360 You start off by saying, what did your parents do 0:00:27.400 --> 0:00:30.320 on the weekend? Yeah, and then if if they're like, well, 0:00:30.360 --> 0:00:32.360 they sit at home watch sports all weekend, And it's like, 0:00:32.400 --> 0:00:34.680 all right, you're fine. You can think about putting your 0:00:34.720 --> 0:00:38.320 kids in sports. Yeah, you can do both. Who can 0:00:38.440 --> 0:00:43.239 sports and outdoor activities? I can't. Well, I didn't know. 0:00:43.280 --> 0:00:52.960 He a young individual, lots outdoor activities and great podcast incompatible. 0:00:53.640 --> 0:00:57.000 Here's the main thing. I have a certain bag here. 0:00:57.000 --> 0:00:58.680 I have a certain bag of tricks to bring to 0:00:58.800 --> 0:01:00.440 that I can bring to the table. Need have a 0:01:00.480 --> 0:01:05.000 whole conversation. What are you doing? I was telling Karanta, 0:01:05.120 --> 0:01:07.960 hit the record, I'll turn the recorderback on I have 0:01:08.000 --> 0:01:09.800 a certain bag of tricks that I can bring to 0:01:09.800 --> 0:01:13.880 the table as a parent that that should be valued. Like, 0:01:13.959 --> 0:01:16.360 let's say, for instance, let's say name for me a 0:01:16.440 --> 0:01:22.440 sports figure, Michael Jordan's. Uh, Michael Jordan comes over to 0:01:22.480 --> 0:01:26.959 spend the weekend at your house. Okay, it would make 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:31.720 sense that if there's a basketball court and he's staying 0:01:31.760 --> 0:01:34.200 the weekend and he says, I'd love to take the 0:01:34.240 --> 0:01:40.680 kids out to shoot a few hoops as they say, 0:01:41.080 --> 0:01:42.480 you would be like, well, that makes a hell of 0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:44.759 a lot of sense, seeing that's how you're Michael Jordan's. 0:01:46.200 --> 0:01:48.800 So if you have a person that likes to hunting 0:01:48.800 --> 0:01:52.240 fish in the house, and you have hunting and fishing 0:01:52.240 --> 0:01:57.160 to be done around home, wouldn't you extend the same logic? Sure, Okay, 0:01:57.240 --> 0:01:59.880 you wouldn't be like, hey, everybody, Michael Jordan's here for 0:01:59.880 --> 0:02:04.760 the weekend, let's go ice fishing. Maybe you'd be like, hey, Michael, 0:02:04.840 --> 0:02:08.200 He's like, no, I wanted to shoot some hoops the kids. No, no, no, no, no, 0:02:08.200 --> 0:02:13.560 no no no no no, take them ice fishing. Clearly, 0:02:13.600 --> 0:02:17.200 you don't understand that Michael Jordan's actually just a degenerate gambler. 0:02:17.320 --> 0:02:18.480 That's all I really want to do. When he was 0:02:18.480 --> 0:02:21.760 at Man, I watched that whole movie. Listen, I watched it. 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:25.480 That's why I know a lot about this. I came 0:02:25.520 --> 0:02:29.079 away from that like with deep admiration for the guy. 0:02:29.680 --> 0:02:31.640 Did none of that. You didn't come away thinking he 0:02:31.639 --> 0:02:33.880 was an asshole. None of that bad stuff resonated with me. 0:02:34.919 --> 0:02:38.960 None of that bad stuff resonated with me. Last dance. Yeah, 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:41.760 I like all that. I like all that. Playing for 0:02:41.880 --> 0:02:45.440 keeps like, I like all that all. I liked all 0:02:45.520 --> 0:02:53.080 that stuff, all of it. Okay, turn around, Phil, that 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:57.800 was all free content for everyone for you six No, 0:02:57.880 --> 0:02:59.680 that was free. No, I think we should publish that 0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:03.200 as a free bonus extra. Yeah when no lead in 0:03:03.639 --> 0:03:06.760 just launched straight in middle free, don't say we never 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:10.560 gave you nothing free. Be great. If we could have 0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:20.240 Carrie here and Katie here to help down here, then look, 0:03:20.360 --> 0:03:23.799 I'm just not wasting on my weekends on that kind 0:03:23.840 --> 0:03:26.000 of ship. And Carrie doesn't like it. When I put 0:03:26.040 --> 0:03:28.640 it that way, I almost had to go sleep on 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:32.240 the couch about this, Doris. I did is that kind 0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:34.480 of fell asleep? But I was laying or thinking about 0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:35.880 you know what I'm gonna do to really make my point, 0:03:35.880 --> 0:03:38.480 I'm gonna sleep on the couch. How did that work out? 0:03:38.640 --> 0:03:43.000 I tell sleep? Do you wake up soaring feeling guilty 0:03:43.040 --> 0:03:44.960 the next morning? No? No No, No, I'm saying I was 0:03:45.040 --> 0:03:47.800 in bed thinking about storming out and going to the couch. 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:51.320 You never made but I fell asleep. I never got to, like, 0:03:51.440 --> 0:03:57.280 do make your point? Yeah? Have you have you heard 0:03:57.360 --> 0:03:59.720 Mitch hed Burgh's deal about why he doesn't like camping 0:04:00.360 --> 0:04:02.400 because it's too hard to express his anger When he 0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:08.320 tries to, he tries to angrily zip the tent. He's like, 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:17.240 fuck you, we need to have a bigger conversation about 0:04:18.080 --> 0:04:21.120 Did you know that I was helping him coach my 0:04:21.200 --> 0:04:23.560 girls basketball team the last two months? Yeah? But let 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:26.720 me ask you this. Not on the weekends. No weekend. 0:04:26.920 --> 0:04:31.200 I don't care. That's what I've told everybody. I don't 0:04:31.200 --> 0:04:33.400 care what to do. What I've been very on the weekdays. 0:04:33.640 --> 0:04:38.240 I've been very supportive of all the kids are in swim. 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:41.520 They swim two days a week. I'm hot and now 0:04:41.680 --> 0:04:46.200 they're like little river otters, all of them, very strong swimmers. 0:04:46.600 --> 0:04:50.600 They'll swim till they die. They will not play sports 0:04:52.240 --> 0:04:55.880 when they're eighty, they'll still be swimming. There's no way 0:04:58.200 --> 0:05:02.039 he already quit tea ball. Yeah, but he might be 0:05:04.320 --> 0:05:06.520 come by. That argument makes no sense at all. Oh, 0:05:06.600 --> 0:05:08.720 I agree, man, you shouldn't do something that they're gonna 0:05:08.760 --> 0:05:12.000 do until they're dead. Exactly. That's exactly what I'm saying. Okay, 0:05:12.160 --> 0:05:18.000 develop some lifelong skills and skills that are developed in 0:05:18.040 --> 0:05:21.320 team sports too. We can't discount that they always they're 0:05:21.360 --> 0:05:24.320 always telling you that, They're always telling you that I 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:26.320 want you to go, fine, Okay, I want you to 0:05:26.360 --> 0:05:29.680 go like, Okay, find a way to measure cooperation, Like, 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:31.520 how do you measure co operation? They? I wanted to 0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:37.680 go randomly, sample randomly, select a hundred Americans, spend a 0:05:37.680 --> 0:05:41.400 week with them, and give them a cooperation score, and 0:05:41.400 --> 0:05:44.200 then correlate it for me. Show me the correl the 0:05:44.200 --> 0:05:48.200 correlation that they're like, Oh, the top scorers all wrestled 0:05:48.240 --> 0:05:51.800 in high school. I bet that studies toughness. If you 0:05:52.200 --> 0:05:55.600 do a toughness if you were to do a toughness 0:05:55.640 --> 0:05:59.839 like tests, like mentally toughness, I think that wrestling would 0:05:59.880 --> 0:06:02.200 be up there. I think you want to have them. 0:06:02.320 --> 0:06:04.200 Do you have a contest about who's mentally more tough 0:06:04.200 --> 0:06:05.920 out of you and me. How how do we set 0:06:05.920 --> 0:06:15.599 it up? Bill? Turn them with scientifically legitimate record contest, No, 0:06:15.839 --> 0:06:19.479 no blanking. We don't have a baseline, we don't have 0:06:19.520 --> 0:06:25.000 it bored. Yeah, this is a riveting podcast, alight. I 0:06:25.000 --> 0:06:26.960 know you guys can't see us staring at each other, 0:06:27.000 --> 0:06:32.160 but I just I like, if you, if the parents 0:06:32.279 --> 0:06:34.120 like it, I think that you should do it. I'm 0:06:34.120 --> 0:06:36.320 not against it. I think you should do it. I 0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:40.839 don't what I'm against our wives or husbands. I'm gonna 0:06:40.880 --> 0:06:44.080 cut it right there. When I'm against, I'm against wives 0:06:44.279 --> 0:06:49.520 or husbands forcing their spouse into doing things with their 0:06:49.600 --> 0:06:56.640 kids that they hate. When the big win, they want 0:06:56.680 --> 0:06:58.880 to do a different thing with their kids. I can 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:00.880 see if he's like, I don't want do anything. I 0:07:00.880 --> 0:07:03.200 want to sit here and be a bad parent, then 0:07:03.200 --> 0:07:05.360 I'd be like, listen, that's not gonna fly. Take him 0:07:05.360 --> 0:07:08.720 to basketball. But if they're like, trucks loaded, dude, we're 0:07:08.720 --> 0:07:12.080 gonna camp in, we're gonna fish, we're gonna make a fire, 0:07:12.440 --> 0:07:14.320 we're gonna go look up on what's up on top 0:07:14.360 --> 0:07:16.720 of that hill. No, you can't because you gotta go 0:07:16.720 --> 0:07:21.480 to t ball. Bullshit, man, a little bullshit? At what 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:24.080 point does it shift though, Like if as your child ages, 0:07:24.120 --> 0:07:27.120 when they when the child has a passion for something 0:07:27.160 --> 0:07:30.120 that like like what if they just really like baseball? 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:32.120 Like I don't know, he didn't make the sacrifice. Had 0:07:32.160 --> 0:07:33.400 to do a similar thing. The other day, I was 0:07:33.440 --> 0:07:36.480 telling my kids about the genre of jokes called dirty 0:07:36.560 --> 0:07:39.800 Dan okay, And I told him the layout of a 0:07:39.840 --> 0:07:43.560 dirty Dan joke where they're in class and they have 0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:47.520 and the teachers doing the alphabet and they do a 0:07:47.600 --> 0:07:50.360 letter and the kid has to raise his hand and 0:07:50.360 --> 0:07:54.840 then have a word that starts with the letter and 0:07:54.880 --> 0:07:57.520 then use it in a sentence. And she's like hey 0:07:57.640 --> 0:07:59.600 and run away. Dirty Dance handles up. He's like I 0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:01.360 got it, got it, I got it right. But she 0:08:01.400 --> 0:08:05.560 can't call on him. She's dirty Dance and she knows 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:09.480 what he's gonna say. So she's like, uh, Susie, and 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:13.640 she's like apple, my grandmother established an apple orchard, right, 0:08:13.760 --> 0:08:18.760 and she's like beat dirty Dance, like oh right, but 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:20.400 she's like I know I can't do that. No, he's 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:24.440 gonna say, and she's like Billy and he's in baseball. So, 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:26.400 as I was telling the kids. It gets to our 0:08:27.920 --> 0:08:32.240 no one raises their hand, not even Dirty Dan. But 0:08:32.640 --> 0:08:37.920 very slowly, eventually Dirty Dan's hand goes up and she's like, well, 0:08:37.920 --> 0:08:40.480 there's nothing, there's no r there's nothing to do with 0:08:40.559 --> 0:08:44.600 our And so she finally agrees to call on Dirty Dan. 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:47.480 And I said, I can't tell you what Dirty Dance says, though, 0:08:48.920 --> 0:08:51.360 and we agreed that when they get their learners permit 0:08:52.160 --> 0:08:55.079 to drive, I will tell them what Dirty give them 0:08:55.120 --> 0:09:00.559 the punchline. So now they like to speculate what Derry 0:09:00.640 --> 0:09:02.520 Dan says. I was like, you'll never get You'll never 0:09:02.559 --> 0:09:06.000 get what Dan says. So when they get their learners permit, 0:09:06.320 --> 0:09:09.800 if they choose to participate in weekend sports, I will 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:14.280 consider it, knowing that they're soon able to drive themselves. 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:18.040 And if they make it to a championship, I will 0:09:18.080 --> 0:09:23.800 probably go the final championships. It's the doing something, one 0:09:23.840 --> 0:09:27.000 thing that screws up the thing for the whole family 0:09:27.240 --> 0:09:30.360 that the whole family enjoys. It for sure does. Like 0:09:30.440 --> 0:09:32.880 my my brother in law is a is an ex 0:09:32.960 --> 0:09:36.840 professional athlete and his kids are like extremely into sports 0:09:36.840 --> 0:09:40.320 because David is extremely into sports in my opinion, um, 0:09:40.360 --> 0:09:43.719 but their weekends ship. Their week days are cannibalized with 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:47.439 NonStop sporting events like it's I don't even know how 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:49.600 they fucking manage it. It just seems like a nightmare 0:09:49.640 --> 0:09:51.920 to me. And I like sports, care about sports, but 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:55.599 not at this level. It's Truely, I can't tell the 0:09:55.600 --> 0:09:59.679 punch line because Phil, Phil, I'll tell the punch line 0:10:00.280 --> 0:10:02.640 and just bleep, I wipe it out the parts. Okay, 0:10:03.080 --> 0:10:05.760 so Dirty Dance slowly raises his hand and no one 0:10:05.760 --> 0:10:08.360 else raises their hand, and teachers like there's nothing. He 0:10:08.559 --> 0:10:10.880 can totally say it because there's nothing can say. It's 0:10:11.000 --> 0:10:22.520 Dirty Dangles rats big like this, and it's a double joke. 0:10:22.720 --> 0:10:36.000 It's a double joke because that's not even a sentence. Okay, uh, 0:10:36.040 --> 0:10:39.600 do you guys see that I'm a holding news. This 0:10:39.640 --> 0:10:48.360 is where the show is starting, though. This is me 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:52.720 eat your podcast coming at you, shirtless, severely, bug bitten, 0:10:52.720 --> 0:10:57.520 and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You can't predict 0:10:57.559 --> 0:11:03.559 anything presented by fur like creating proven versatile hunting apparel 0:11:03.679 --> 0:11:07.439 from Marino bass layers to technical outerwear for every hunt, 0:11:07.840 --> 0:11:15.800 First life, Go farther, stay longer. I'm holding a new 0:11:16.040 --> 0:11:20.679 red dot that I gonna put on a shotgun. Um, 0:11:20.760 --> 0:11:22.800 people are gonna think this is a paid advertisement, but 0:11:22.960 --> 0:11:24.840 this is it's not. You just have to trust me. 0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:29.000 Uh guess. With the battery life, it's a vortex what's 0:11:29.040 --> 0:11:32.440 called a spark solar red Dotice just did a big 0:11:32.520 --> 0:11:35.080 video on this the solar. Yeah, did you explain the 0:11:35.080 --> 0:11:39.640 battery life? Yeah? Do you believe it? I do believe it, 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:43.000 but you have to understand how it works properly before 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:45.920 you spout out, because it's not just the battery life 0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:50.640 with the conjunction. Yeah, it's a it's a red dot 0:11:51.160 --> 0:11:53.760 with This is a solar panel I gather, but it's 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:57.199 like not it's it's indiscernible from a northern world. I 0:11:57.240 --> 0:11:58.920 mean it's like a little teeny bigger than a normal 0:11:58.960 --> 0:12:04.600 red dot. Uh. It stays on when you turn around, 0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:07.760 it stays on for fourteen hours. If you move the gun, 0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:10.600 it comes the light comes back on. You can just 0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:13.200 turn If you were to not move your your gun 0:12:13.360 --> 0:12:17.080 for fourteen hours, it would turn off automatically in fourteen hours, 0:12:17.200 --> 0:12:20.080 So that prevents you from leaving the gun in the safe. 0:12:20.120 --> 0:12:27.920 All that's right, Well, they are a night Let me 0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:33.120 try explain something here. Their night we went out. There's 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:35.640 a thing that I have heard works extraordinarily well, and 0:12:35.760 --> 0:12:38.920 I can now attest you sneak up to a raccoon 0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:43.679 d entry in the dark and set up a caller 0:12:44.000 --> 0:12:49.240 and play a coon fight, which is a crazy noise. 0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:54.320 It's too raccoons. Yeah. So me and Garrett went out 0:12:54.360 --> 0:12:58.000 to a known coon d entry and Sean Weaver was saying, 0:12:58.080 --> 0:13:01.040 when you turn that thing on and get ready, and 0:13:01.080 --> 0:13:02.720 I thought he meant like, you know, kind of get ready. 0:13:03.400 --> 0:13:05.400 We get off to a tree with a red light 0:13:05.480 --> 0:13:08.240 and that coon coller on and turn that coon fight on, 0:13:08.720 --> 0:13:13.839 and holy shit, they just came pouring out one a bore. 0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:16.360 I mean, he come out like there was no time 0:13:16.400 --> 0:13:21.640 to even think. And he's not only out of the hole, 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:24.440 out of the tree, on the ground, coming at us, 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:27.280 and I realized I hadn't turned the damn red dot on. 0:13:29.520 --> 0:13:35.280 He goes back, sees us, goes back up, gets worked 0:13:35.360 --> 0:13:37.360 up all over again, and comes back down, at which 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:40.520 point I had that you're ready for him then, And 0:13:40.520 --> 0:13:42.520 that got me being like, and I even said to Garrett, said, 0:13:42.520 --> 0:13:44.080 if you're using the red diet, yeah, I actually like 0:13:44.080 --> 0:13:46.000 pay attention to what's going on. It's like the only 0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:47.559 you know, if you like spend your whole life, you 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:52.760 not used like turning your sight on. But and I 0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:54.320 was bitching about it, and so he put this on 0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:58.800 my desk. Where as soon as you move it and 0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:01.600 hunting raccoon's at night. Obviously it's different because there's no sun, 0:14:01.880 --> 0:14:08.080 but hundred fifty thousand hours of runtimely ship with the 0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:12.960 battery in the sun, you buy that ye hundred fifty hours. 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:16.520 To figure out how many days that is, you'd never 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:23.880 be able to figure that out. You'd have to divide 0:14:24.800 --> 0:14:30.400 one hundred and fifty thousands in your head. No one's 0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:34.880 going to do that a lot days. It's somewhere around 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:38.480 seven hundred no weight, No, seven thousand five? Correct? What 0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:43.800 do we got? Somebody? This is amazing. Some things are 0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:50.320 just best. Two hundred and fifty days, I mean years 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:57.320 of that. How you're getting in now? It's getting ridiculous. No, 0:14:57.520 --> 0:15:02.760 this is interesting. Seventeen point one years on one battery. Yeah, 0:15:02.760 --> 0:15:12.200 it's called the spark solar red dot. Yeah, I've got exactly. 0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:17.040 So I want to make sure every fortnight everybody understands 0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:20.080 that that is up to by using like a lot 0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:24.160 of ambient uh, you know solar power like Arizona and 0:15:24.280 --> 0:15:29.520 late like if you're if you're only hunting coons at night, Uh, 0:15:29.560 --> 0:15:31.840 it's probably going to be closer to like thirty thousand, 0:15:32.040 --> 0:15:35.080 which is with the red dots that you know I 0:15:35.160 --> 0:15:38.240 both use the venom. That's what their battery life is. 0:15:38.400 --> 0:15:42.440 Still very impressed. Yeah, yeah, this is like how um 0:15:42.440 --> 0:15:45.400 e vs like range. It's like four fifty miles and 0:15:45.400 --> 0:15:48.720 you're like if you're driving very slow downhill the whole way, 0:15:48.960 --> 0:15:55.120 like yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Um, one more question about 0:15:55.120 --> 0:16:01.320 this thing. Uh, it's not running is it? Is it 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:06.840 storing solar? No? Oh so it's like actually like running 0:16:06.880 --> 0:16:10.800 on solar. So it's just basically not in the battery. Said, 0:16:10.800 --> 0:16:13.280 thus the battery life is that's a surprise matter. You're 0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:17.440 you're putting a Joe blow Walgreen's coin battery in there. 0:16:18.640 --> 0:16:27.000 I was like, how's that? Okay? Yeah, it's running m automatically, 0:16:27.160 --> 0:16:29.640 which is the cool part. Right, it's just always using 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:34.880 the solar that's available to it if it can. Okay, 0:16:34.880 --> 0:16:38.640 now that we're really starting to show joined by Kevin Gillespie, 0:16:38.680 --> 0:16:40.640 we're arguing about this dr day. Do you like a 0:16:40.720 --> 0:16:42.960 jug or a guh, it's a guy. It's definitely not 0:16:43.000 --> 0:16:45.480 a job. I don't think that's right, like my parents 0:16:45.560 --> 0:16:47.520 or grandparents decided it. And I don't really get to 0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:50.360 weigh in because well, I've had this conversation hard times 0:16:50.360 --> 0:16:51.960 that Clay. I don't think Clay knows what his last 0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:54.080 name is. What do you think his last name is? 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:58.120 His last day's Newcombe? He thinks it's Newcomb. Yeah, it's 0:16:58.120 --> 0:17:00.400 not your last name, says I think that. I think 0:17:00.440 --> 0:17:04.199 that's called um regional dialect accent. But you go with 0:17:04.200 --> 0:17:06.640 a gun. I was arguing and it's and it's yeah, 0:17:06.720 --> 0:17:09.520 exactly gun, not gil not yet I had a person 0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:12.680 doing a job. Yeah, a lot of people do Gillespie 0:17:14.040 --> 0:17:16.560 j and an hard eye shut that ship down hard 0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:19.240 and then periodically people in t s a pronounce it Giuseppi. 0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:24.320 But I'm not really sure that's like that points to 0:17:24.440 --> 0:17:27.080 larger issues. It's not really my name being the problem. 0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:31.000 I like that as a nickname though, totally. Yeah, and 0:17:31.119 --> 0:17:33.560 me and all of my Italian heritage. Yeah, you just 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:41.200 called me just Seppi Brody Anderson. Hello, fixing to say 0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:43.720 something divisive among the dog lovers of the world. Oh, 0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:45.680 I got something for you. What we'll do it later. 0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:51.080 That's something that came to mind the other day. Philarant Uh, 0:17:51.480 --> 0:17:57.840 just the divesters here Midwestern Chester, the midwester Seth Morrison 0:17:57.960 --> 0:18:00.920 and our very own beloved honest Hotels. Who's gonna fill 0:18:01.119 --> 0:18:04.639 in about his whole journey of discovery about heavy asked arrows? 0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:06.600 Is that a great good way to put it? Oh, 0:18:06.720 --> 0:18:08.840 we can go down that rabbit hole if you if 0:18:08.880 --> 0:18:10.679 you like, no, we'll get to it. We're gonna get 0:18:10.680 --> 0:18:12.120 to a hardcore. But we gotta do a few things 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:15.679 up top, all right, we gotta. We gotta like speed Demon, 0:18:16.640 --> 0:18:18.639 speed Demon through a lot of stuffs. We allow stuff 0:18:18.640 --> 0:18:24.679 to get after you guys. Ready, here's one. The Meat 0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:27.520 Podcast is smarter than doctors. That's right. You heard it right. 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:32.439 A guy uh was eating some venison with his family 0:18:33.520 --> 0:18:38.280 eating it very rare. Whole family gets sick. He gets 0:18:38.280 --> 0:18:44.160 to thinking about the symptomology lethargy, very high fever, chills, 0:18:44.359 --> 0:18:47.480 body aches, headaches. He's like, I feel like I heard 0:18:47.480 --> 0:18:50.520 about this on Meat Eater Podcast. I think I got toxoplasmosis. 0:18:50.880 --> 0:18:53.840 Can't scratch fever cat scrash fever calls the doctor, doctor, like, 0:18:53.920 --> 0:18:56.280 you can't get that off, dear meat, and he's like, 0:18:56.400 --> 0:19:00.639 you want to bet I learned it on the podcast. 0:19:01.200 --> 0:19:05.400 Turns out they all had toxico plasmosis. He could have died. 0:19:06.640 --> 0:19:09.800 Another guy wrote in he was in Florida, of all places, 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:16.960 on a long run, long boat run, fishing tuna, long 0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:22.520 wet ride. Uh. All of a sudden, his body inexplicably 0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:26.760 is acting real weird and he's like, this reminds me 0:19:27.440 --> 0:19:30.840 of the story I heard about the caribou hunting guide 0:19:31.160 --> 0:19:38.720 on meetators Close Calls audiobook. And he was able to 0:19:38.760 --> 0:19:40.400 diagnose the guy, and sure enough, the guy was having 0:19:40.680 --> 0:19:44.760 in Florida where you'd never expected. His buddy had gotten 0:19:44.760 --> 0:19:47.480 his clothes to wet and was in hypothermia so bad 0:19:47.480 --> 0:19:51.399 he became incoherent. But he recognized that. He's like, I 0:19:51.440 --> 0:19:55.560 could think, I know what's happened to this guy. Huh. So, 0:19:55.600 --> 0:19:57.600 if you just feel like you're sitting around your thumb 0:19:57.600 --> 0:19:59.320 and your arts right now, you're actually learning how to 0:19:59.359 --> 0:20:04.440 save lives. Yeah, if you haven't, if you haven't listened 0:20:04.480 --> 0:20:09.919 to those close call stories, you're missing out. Um South Dakota. 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:10.960 This has been going on for a while, but just 0:20:10.960 --> 0:20:13.520 a quick reminder. We keep talking about you know, it 0:20:13.560 --> 0:20:16.840 comes up all the time for prices affecting you know, 0:20:16.920 --> 0:20:20.920 meso predator populations and like raccoon and skunk prices being 0:20:20.960 --> 0:20:24.560 really low. So we're seeing this like dramatic upswing over 0:20:24.600 --> 0:20:27.119 the last few decades and meso predators and what that 0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:30.640 means for predation on duck ness and all that. South Dakota. 0:20:30.680 --> 0:20:34.320 This is contentious, is all get out. South Dakota is 0:20:34.359 --> 0:20:39.840 opening up a bounty program. They've been talking about it. 0:20:40.160 --> 0:20:43.200 They're doing it. Kids get their own bounty season. Man, 0:20:43.320 --> 0:20:44.800 this would be great if I would love it if 0:20:44.840 --> 0:20:48.320 I was there with my kids. Kids get an exclusive 0:20:48.359 --> 0:20:55.360 headstart period starting on March one for a month. Uh raccoons, 0:20:55.760 --> 0:20:59.640 striped skunks, badgers, a possums, and red fox Ten bucks 0:20:59.640 --> 0:21:03.400 per tay, that's cool. Jimmy would be all over that. Oh, 0:21:03.440 --> 0:21:06.920 he'd make a killing. Participants must submit the tailbone and 0:21:07.160 --> 0:21:13.280 entire tail to receive payment. Nine bucks for the tails 0:21:13.320 --> 0:21:16.919 per household. I'd like to know why it's that number. 0:21:17.119 --> 0:21:20.159 I don't know. Regular South Dakota residents April one to 0:21:20.240 --> 0:21:25.360 July one. See how they're timing it for nesting April one, 0:21:25.440 --> 0:21:28.760 July one. Obviously very contentious. It was, I should point 0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:31.840 out just to be fair to history here it was 0:21:32.040 --> 0:21:36.080 bounty programs intended to eliminate predators that we have to 0:21:36.119 --> 0:21:39.560 thank for the fact that we eliminated the mountain lion 0:21:39.680 --> 0:21:47.040 across its range. He's destroyed the grizzly bear across the 0:21:47.119 --> 0:21:51.440 lower forty eight, removed black bears for a time across 0:21:51.480 --> 0:21:58.160 a massive part of their range. Um and modern day 0:21:58.160 --> 0:22:01.480 bounties have proven to be pretty ineffective way of dealing 0:22:01.480 --> 0:22:05.560 with coyotes. So they're going out on a limb here. 0:22:05.760 --> 0:22:07.959 And as Sean pointed out in a recent Duck report, 0:22:09.000 --> 0:22:10.399 to do this kind of work, it has to be 0:22:10.440 --> 0:22:13.399 done in a very focused way, Like you asked me, like, 0:22:13.480 --> 0:22:17.680 do does kyote control work for fawn crops? Right? And 0:22:18.119 --> 0:22:25.199 researchers will tell you yes if. And it has to 0:22:25.240 --> 0:22:28.680 do with when you're doing it, how you're doing it. 0:22:28.680 --> 0:22:30.880 It's done with like when when done with a high 0:22:31.040 --> 0:22:37.199 level of precision, like timing wise spatially wise in a 0:22:37.240 --> 0:22:43.000 certain way, it can have an impact. Randomly done um, 0:22:43.040 --> 0:22:47.320 not as much, but looks like that's happening if I 0:22:47.359 --> 0:22:50.560 live to state where it was happening. If I look 0:22:50.600 --> 0:22:52.679 in the state where they were kicking it around, I 0:22:52.680 --> 0:22:54.720 would be like, let's think about this for another second. 0:22:55.720 --> 0:22:57.080 But if I was living in a state where it 0:22:57.160 --> 0:23:01.360 did happen, I would and I wouldn't. I would get 0:23:01.359 --> 0:23:05.680 my kids into it. Yeah, this particular program is let's 0:23:05.680 --> 0:23:10.679 take advantage of the situation. You make a little jingle, Okay, Brodie, 0:23:11.080 --> 0:23:16.679 quick pen raise pheasants. Why the hubbub um? In Montana, 0:23:16.760 --> 0:23:20.199 there's been a bill proposed by a politician, it's a 0:23:20.280 --> 0:23:24.439 state representative, uh HB six thirty seven, which includes some 0:23:24.560 --> 0:23:27.639 like other stuff that people are pretty fired up about. 0:23:27.680 --> 0:23:32.199 But what we're focused on here is the proposal to 0:23:32.280 --> 0:23:38.320 spend one million dollars to stock penn raised pheasants, you know, 0:23:38.480 --> 0:23:44.560 around Montana from the state prison. That's right, Um, And 0:23:45.119 --> 0:23:48.040 that's a question. First off, they're already stock pheasants. If 0:23:48.040 --> 0:23:50.320 they didn't stock peasants, wouldn't be peasants here there from China. 0:23:50.600 --> 0:23:54.399 Well yeah, okay, yeah, but this is would be a 0:23:54.440 --> 0:23:58.960 program to go and release I don't know how many pheasants. 0:23:59.040 --> 0:24:01.399 I'm assuming a million dollars, we'll get to quite a 0:24:01.400 --> 0:24:05.479 few of them. Um, half of the money would come 0:24:05.480 --> 0:24:08.880 from license sales and half from Pittman Robinson Robertson Fund, 0:24:08.880 --> 0:24:10.880 which is all that stuff generally works like that usually 0:24:10.920 --> 0:24:14.280 comes as matching, so that that's like money that's already 0:24:14.280 --> 0:24:19.879 been earmarked for FWP for wildlife conservation, hunting and fishing, 0:24:19.960 --> 0:24:24.119 you know, improvements things like that access. UM, And this 0:24:24.240 --> 0:24:28.159 proposal is to take a million million bucks and and 0:24:28.280 --> 0:24:33.199 start a pen raised bird release program in Montana, like 0:24:33.359 --> 0:24:36.640 not meant to establish a population, but just to put 0:24:36.720 --> 0:24:44.600 birds on the ground. And it's being done as it's 0:24:44.680 --> 0:24:50.840 being done to boost our three efforts. UM, I'm not 0:24:50.880 --> 0:24:56.240 sure how you know releasing birds translates to recruiting more 0:24:56.320 --> 0:25:01.040 hunters in a state that has extremely good wild peasant hunting. 0:25:01.320 --> 0:25:06.000 Extremely good pheasants are extremely good hunting for other upland species, 0:25:06.040 --> 0:25:10.600 Like there's what four species of grouse here, hungarian partridge, 0:25:10.640 --> 0:25:14.640 So there's there's all kinds of upland opportunities that already exist. 0:25:14.760 --> 0:25:18.080 So there there's some questions about whether this is a 0:25:18.119 --> 0:25:23.119 good use of always easy and this is easy. Well, 0:25:23.400 --> 0:25:27.560 I'm saying that'd be the argument, right, But the other 0:25:27.680 --> 0:25:33.040 argument is you're paying a million dollars to feed coyotes, bobcats, boxes, 0:25:33.200 --> 0:25:37.960 raptors because these farm raised birds have no survival skills. 0:25:38.600 --> 0:25:40.879 So a lot of people are pretty fired up because 0:25:40.920 --> 0:25:43.280 they feel like this is, you know, a waste of money, 0:25:43.280 --> 0:25:45.760 and that perhaps a better way to spend a million 0:25:45.800 --> 0:25:49.840 dollars in a better way to bring in more hunters 0:25:49.880 --> 0:25:54.560 would be to spend it on access programs or improving 0:25:54.680 --> 0:25:58.720 habitat uh where you know, for pheasant hunting that would 0:25:58.760 --> 0:26:01.840 also benefit a whole bunch of other wildlife. Maybe, like, 0:26:01.960 --> 0:26:06.160 maybe investing a million dollars is better than just flushing 0:26:06.160 --> 0:26:09.480 a million bucks down the drain with some pen raised 0:26:09.480 --> 0:26:12.560 birds that are gonna be dead very quickly. Yeah. I 0:26:12.600 --> 0:26:15.880 also think, and we've explored this in a lot of facets, 0:26:15.920 --> 0:26:19.160 I also think, like considering COVID, I just don't think 0:26:19.200 --> 0:26:28.280 that that activities for to spend agency money or habitat 0:26:28.359 --> 0:26:34.600 money on things that have the sole purpose of growing 0:26:34.680 --> 0:26:38.160 hunter numbers seems unnecessary at the moment. Well, I think 0:26:38.160 --> 0:26:41.000 it's all it's a popular way to get something done, 0:26:41.080 --> 0:26:44.120 right because it sounds good. Like if you if you're 0:26:44.200 --> 0:26:48.280 if you're a politician angling to get something like this done, 0:26:49.080 --> 0:26:51.479 you throw the R three thing and it's hard to 0:26:51.560 --> 0:26:54.640 like argue against. But I mean, like why not just 0:26:54.760 --> 0:26:57.600 like put a million bucks into habitat exactly which is 0:26:57.640 --> 0:27:02.520 gonna just have a because long lasting benefit for buying 0:27:02.560 --> 0:27:03.920 I could see it, Like I could definitely see it 0:27:03.960 --> 0:27:06.280 like buying a million bucks with the birds to sort 0:27:06.280 --> 0:27:09.840 of like foe hunt them, like to kind of like 0:27:09.880 --> 0:27:12.600 have a pretend hunt. It's like it's like I see 0:27:12.640 --> 0:27:16.520 what I did for hunters kind of thing, you know. Um, 0:27:16.640 --> 0:27:19.960 But I like I'd like to clarify, like this isn't fish, 0:27:19.960 --> 0:27:22.679 wildlife and parks that like a lot of people like 0:27:22.760 --> 0:27:26.280 to drag their state game agencies through the mud for 0:27:26.359 --> 0:27:29.040 doing ship they don't agree with. This is not that. 0:27:29.119 --> 0:27:32.600 This is a bill that's being proposed that that f 0:27:32.840 --> 0:27:34.960 w P would then have to follow through on if 0:27:34.960 --> 0:27:37.520 it if it passes, and there was a comment period 0:27:37.520 --> 0:27:40.760 that's closed and now it's whatever. Yeah, yeah, so we'll 0:27:40.800 --> 0:27:46.399 find out hopefully. Okay, moving on a little news from 0:27:46.440 --> 0:27:49.520 New Mexico. This is good news from New Mexico. This 0:27:49.520 --> 0:27:51.040 has been a thing that's going on for a long time. 0:27:51.760 --> 0:27:53.600 Has to do a stream axis. So as we all know, 0:27:54.520 --> 0:27:56.960 a lot of states whatever imagine you're on a river. 0:27:57.240 --> 0:28:00.280 Take a big river where it's true everywhere. May iagine 0:28:00.320 --> 0:28:04.600 you're floating down the Mississippi River. Right as you're floating 0:28:04.600 --> 0:28:08.080 down the Mississippi River, you are not expecting that someone 0:28:08.119 --> 0:28:11.919 would run out of their house and come say, hey, 0:28:12.200 --> 0:28:16.520 you're on my land. You'd say, oh, no, I'm in 0:28:16.560 --> 0:28:21.160 the river. Okay. That's like an extreme version because we all, 0:28:21.200 --> 0:28:23.240 of course, everyone knows you can float down the Mississippi 0:28:23.320 --> 0:28:26.520 River without needing to get permission from someone. But in 0:28:26.600 --> 0:28:30.800 some states, as rivers get smaller and smaller and smaller, 0:28:31.000 --> 0:28:33.840 you get to a point where you cannot float down 0:28:33.920 --> 0:28:37.159 the river or walk along the river or whatever in 0:28:37.200 --> 0:28:43.200 the water without securing permission from the landowner. Inevitably you 0:28:43.240 --> 0:28:46.959 will have landowners who don't like looking out their window 0:28:47.360 --> 0:28:52.720 and seeing some scruffy whatever, or a bunch of people 0:28:52.720 --> 0:28:55.280 on a floating trip, drink a beer, whatever, fishing. They 0:28:55.280 --> 0:28:57.440 don't want to see it. They're like, how can I 0:28:57.480 --> 0:29:00.640 own the banks? But some dirt bag can float down 0:29:00.640 --> 0:29:04.080 through my property? And so they will always seek ways 0:29:05.080 --> 0:29:10.120 to reduce your stream access and to argue that Unlike 0:29:10.200 --> 0:29:13.640 the Mississippi River, where there's like interstate commerce happening. This 0:29:13.680 --> 0:29:17.200 isn't a commerce river. I don't want people just recreating 0:29:17.360 --> 0:29:20.800 in front of my house. I want them out of here. Um. 0:29:20.800 --> 0:29:25.160 In New Mexico, there had always been an understood stream 0:29:25.200 --> 0:29:28.320 access rule walk in below the high water be like 0:29:28.360 --> 0:29:30.120 you stay below the high water mark, you can fish, 0:29:30.280 --> 0:29:32.400 float whatever. It's always been understood, but it hadn't been 0:29:32.440 --> 0:29:37.600 like popular pop properly codified into law. Now we've had 0:29:38.120 --> 0:29:42.360 Senator Martin Heinrich from New Mexico on this show to 0:29:42.440 --> 0:29:45.720 talk about this this issue. It's like it's sort of 0:29:45.720 --> 0:29:48.200 in the spirit of the law in New Mexico. It's 0:29:48.200 --> 0:29:51.840 always been understood to be true, but certain well healed 0:29:52.000 --> 0:29:56.000 landowners have been pushing to narrow those definitions and lock 0:29:56.160 --> 0:30:01.040 up more streams than rivers as private property for themselves. 0:30:01.080 --> 0:30:07.200 Just the other day, New Mexico's Supreme Court ruled that 0:30:07.400 --> 0:30:12.080 the states listen to what I'm gonna stay carefully. New 0:30:12.120 --> 0:30:17.760 Mexico Supreme Court ruled that the state's game commissioned decision 0:30:19.000 --> 0:30:23.640 allowing landowners to restrict access to water that flows through 0:30:23.680 --> 0:30:28.080 their property is unconstitutional. Shut that's a clock. That's a 0:30:28.080 --> 0:30:32.840 hard sentence to follow. The Game Commission to come out 0:30:32.880 --> 0:30:37.280 and said, yes, if a landowner wants to challenge stream 0:30:37.320 --> 0:30:39.840 access on their own private stream and make it their 0:30:39.880 --> 0:30:43.040 own private little deal, no one can float through their fish. 0:30:43.240 --> 0:30:45.680 They can push for that with the state. They can 0:30:45.920 --> 0:30:48.960 go to the state and ask for that exemption. The 0:30:49.000 --> 0:30:51.640 Supreme Court came in and just nipped that whole conversation 0:30:52.200 --> 0:30:56.720 in the bud. They're like, your decision to let people 0:30:56.840 --> 0:31:01.760 argue that is unconstitutional. So dreams where you're hanging out 0:31:01.840 --> 0:31:07.720 right now, floating, kayaking, canoeing, rafting, waiting in the water. Um, 0:31:07.760 --> 0:31:11.160 there's been a block in the road for people looking 0:31:11.240 --> 0:31:17.560 to ah cut you off of that and and restrict 0:31:17.640 --> 0:31:21.440 access to places you've traditionally enjoyed it. So now, Brodie, 0:31:21.480 --> 0:31:25.800 it's like Montana just but I think that had been 0:31:25.840 --> 0:31:27.680 they were trying to find a path to make it, 0:31:27.800 --> 0:31:31.800 not that they're trying to like this should just seal 0:31:31.840 --> 0:31:33.720 the deal for a while. Yeah, and the same thing 0:31:33.760 --> 0:31:35.480 had been true. I don't don't want get too like 0:31:35.520 --> 0:31:37.320 Montana centric people, but it's a great it's a great 0:31:37.360 --> 0:31:41.360 case point. Years ago it had been understood in Montana 0:31:41.560 --> 0:31:44.560 and some people were tolling with undoing it. It comes 0:31:44.600 --> 0:31:47.880 up every so often, and some people like very deliberate. 0:31:47.960 --> 0:31:50.600 There's a great story about this because some people you 0:31:50.640 --> 0:31:53.520 know now and then you'll like push something in order 0:31:53.560 --> 0:31:56.520 to like push it to get to the courts. Uh. 0:31:56.560 --> 0:31:59.360 When they tested it in Montana, instead of having Fisherman, 0:31:59.400 --> 0:32:01.600 they had I think it was like they had a 0:32:01.680 --> 0:32:04.520 bunch of girls from a high school go float down 0:32:04.560 --> 0:32:10.120 a river in tubes through a landowner that kept trying 0:32:10.160 --> 0:32:13.400 to get people sited for floating down what he argued 0:32:13.440 --> 0:32:15.480 was a private stream, and everybody would float the stream 0:32:15.480 --> 0:32:17.480 all the time. So like we're not gonna take it 0:32:17.520 --> 0:32:19.160 to court with Fisherman're gonna take it to court with 0:32:19.240 --> 0:32:23.880 like high school girls. The girls getting their tubes float through, 0:32:23.960 --> 0:32:26.680 the guy calls cops, Cops give him a citation, It 0:32:26.720 --> 0:32:29.120 goes to and it comes out codified and law that 0:32:29.440 --> 0:32:32.240 like it was codified, like as everybody understood it to 0:32:32.240 --> 0:32:34.600 be true. They just wanted to like push it to 0:32:34.640 --> 0:32:37.320 a point where it was tested in the courts. As 0:32:37.320 --> 0:32:41.960 Senator Heindrich explained, it's widely understood in New Mexico that 0:32:42.120 --> 0:32:45.080 we have open stream access, but there are people always 0:32:45.120 --> 0:32:48.360 like dicking around, Well maybe we can try this, well, 0:32:48.360 --> 0:32:50.400 maybe you can try that. When you look at this stuff, 0:32:50.400 --> 0:32:53.120 it always comes from a be Like a wealthy person 0:32:54.600 --> 0:32:57.600 buys land, they buy a luxury property, they buy some 0:32:57.680 --> 0:33:00.560 old ranch, and the first thing on their mind is 0:33:00.600 --> 0:33:03.760 getting rid of the assholes who come flow. It's always 0:33:03.800 --> 0:33:07.120 that way. Yeah, I've got I've got a well, you know, 0:33:07.160 --> 0:33:10.440 I got We've got a buddy who sells large, kind 0:33:10.440 --> 0:33:17.280 of large ranches. And uh, those real estate agents very 0:33:17.360 --> 0:33:21.280 much against stream access because you know, it's a lot 0:33:21.320 --> 0:33:24.600 easier to sell a ranch if you can say three 0:33:24.720 --> 0:33:27.440 miles of Trout River. It sells a hell of a 0:33:27.440 --> 0:33:33.440 lot better. Um. Back to the Montana desk, we reported 0:33:33.480 --> 0:33:37.000 about how Governor Genforte in Montana recently got in trouble. 0:33:37.280 --> 0:33:39.160 It's kind of funny story. I'll relay the story, even 0:33:39.200 --> 0:33:42.320 though we recovered it already. One day someone hands me 0:33:42.360 --> 0:33:48.320 I find a headline that says Montana's governor kills a 0:33:48.480 --> 0:33:55.400 yellow Stone wolf, and I think to myself, wow, um, 0:33:55.520 --> 0:33:59.840 that is extremely surprising that our state's governor went and 0:34:00.000 --> 0:34:04.960 a Yellowstone National Park and shot a wolf. Like you'd 0:34:05.000 --> 0:34:07.720 think he'd know better. But you read the article and 0:34:07.800 --> 0:34:11.520 in fact he didn't. It was on a ranch, it 0:34:11.600 --> 0:34:15.040 was on private property. Why was it Yelsa wolf, Because 0:34:15.080 --> 0:34:18.279 it's safe to assume that in that wolve's life it 0:34:18.400 --> 0:34:21.400 had been on the park. And there there's a contingent 0:34:21.440 --> 0:34:23.840 of Americans and their significant to like to think that 0:34:24.000 --> 0:34:27.520 anything that spends some part of its life in mynd 0:34:27.680 --> 0:34:33.880 in Yelsa National Park becomes yellow Stones X, and therefore 0:34:34.880 --> 0:34:38.239 we should enjoy this sort of like de facto protection 0:34:38.719 --> 0:34:41.239 no matter where it goes, like it carries with it 0:34:41.280 --> 0:34:46.080 this sort of like this specific blessing and should be 0:34:46.120 --> 0:34:51.040 preserved forever. So Montana's Governor Greg Jane four to in 0:34:51.080 --> 0:34:54.560 the news again. This time again he's made, uh what 0:34:54.560 --> 0:34:57.480 would appear to be a horrible mistake. Yani has the 0:34:57.480 --> 0:35:01.920 headline pulled up. Here's a headline. It's from the Climate 0:35:02.000 --> 0:35:07.560 and Environment Desk, oddly Washington Post Washington Posts Climate and 0:35:07.719 --> 0:35:13.000 Environment Desk. The headline is hounds chased a Yellowstone National 0:35:13.120 --> 0:35:18.040 Park mountain lion into a tree. Then Montana Governor Greg 0:35:18.120 --> 0:35:27.360 Ganforte shot it. Except not he was hunting on national 0:35:27.400 --> 0:35:32.880 forest land, not in the park. It's like except not 0:35:36.000 --> 0:35:38.359 the like I I don't like to say it, because 0:35:38.400 --> 0:35:40.600 it became such thing like the fake news ship. It's like, 0:35:40.640 --> 0:35:43.160 I'm sorry, Like I'm not I don't run around the 0:35:43.239 --> 0:35:45.480 fake news fake news, but you have to have some 0:35:45.520 --> 0:35:47.640 sympathy for people who run around being fake news fake 0:35:47.680 --> 0:35:53.480 news because it's just not true. It's not true at all. 0:35:53.680 --> 0:35:56.239 It's like, how can you say that? Yeah, listen, and 0:35:56.280 --> 0:36:00.440 I am one that usually will air on the side 0:36:00.600 --> 0:36:07.800 of a liberal news source, and I will personally trust 0:36:07.800 --> 0:36:10.640 it more. Yeah, and and people like this, I'm not 0:36:10.680 --> 0:36:14.680 gonna I'm not gonna call this guy out by his name. 0:36:14.760 --> 0:36:16.839 You can go find out who wrote it. But it's 0:36:16.880 --> 0:36:21.360 just like, man, like you're eroting my trust in like 0:36:21.480 --> 0:36:23.879 what I figured it should be, like good journalism from 0:36:23.920 --> 0:36:30.400 like you know, the um key journalistic entities of our country, 0:36:31.040 --> 0:36:33.200 and yet here he is just like like I when 0:36:33.200 --> 0:36:34.719 I ask the guy, I wish he would come on 0:36:34.719 --> 0:36:37.279 the podcast and just be like, why did you write this? 0:36:37.360 --> 0:36:40.960 What was your goal here? Why did you word it 0:36:41.040 --> 0:36:43.840 the way you worded it? But yeah, well that's the beginning. 0:36:44.040 --> 0:36:46.040 But then the rest of it is like what's the 0:36:46.080 --> 0:36:48.400 outcome of your article? Like what like are you just 0:36:48.440 --> 0:36:52.080 an anti hunter or you just an anti Greg? There's 0:36:52.120 --> 0:36:56.680 also so much that's loaded into that hounds chase cat 0:36:56.920 --> 0:37:01.520 up tree as though that doesn't happen as part of 0:37:01.600 --> 0:37:06.440 cat hunting or using houndste there's this you mean it, 0:37:06.480 --> 0:37:09.480 there's this strong situation that something naughty was going on, 0:37:11.040 --> 0:37:12.680 and then it goes on to talk about how rare. 0:37:12.880 --> 0:37:15.000 Then they do a disservice by time, like they get 0:37:15.000 --> 0:37:18.120 like park officials to talk about how rare mountain lion 0:37:18.160 --> 0:37:20.640 sighting is. There are a lot of things that are 0:37:20.840 --> 0:37:24.880 i u c N species of least concern, like globally 0:37:25.000 --> 0:37:29.200 categorized by a global Wildlife organization as a species of 0:37:29.320 --> 0:37:33.279 least concern that you don't lay eyes on because of 0:37:33.640 --> 0:37:37.640 myriad reasons. How many martins do you see? Most people 0:37:37.680 --> 0:37:40.160 will go their entire life and never lay eyes on 0:37:40.200 --> 0:37:45.080 the martin. Why because they're out at night and they're secretive. 0:37:45.120 --> 0:37:47.520 They don't even know they exist i u c N 0:37:47.600 --> 0:37:50.160 species of least concerned. But the whole like the condemning 0:37:50.200 --> 0:37:53.399 part about this article is that these these jokers from 0:37:53.400 --> 0:37:57.759 the park don't see that many lions. Tell them what 0:37:57.800 --> 0:38:00.920 you heard from actual park biologist Yohni. Why might they 0:38:01.000 --> 0:38:03.799 not be seeing a lot of lions in the park. Well, 0:38:03.840 --> 0:38:07.839 it wasn't from park biologists. It was from hound handlers 0:38:07.880 --> 0:38:10.719 that helped park biologists that are helping right now with 0:38:10.880 --> 0:38:13.759 the probably the study that is they're talking about in 0:38:13.760 --> 0:38:17.000 this article right they've got collared mountain lions and these 0:38:17.120 --> 0:38:22.200 hound handlers help them catch collar recatch when the collars 0:38:22.239 --> 0:38:24.680 go down, etcetera, etcetera. So they're a big part of 0:38:24.719 --> 0:38:27.680 this study. But and you can read about this in 0:38:27.880 --> 0:38:31.319 a wonderful article that was written on the meter UH 0:38:31.520 --> 0:38:35.279 website by Jordan Stiller's titled study show mounta Lions have 0:38:35.360 --> 0:38:39.839 Unexpected predator where they're basically showing saying that like mount 0:38:39.920 --> 0:38:42.080 lion numbers have dropped by half and like the last 0:38:42.080 --> 0:38:45.840 ten years in the park because wolves not only do 0:38:45.960 --> 0:38:49.040 they kill in um, they don't think they kill them 0:38:49.080 --> 0:38:50.560 to eat them, but they just kill them because they're 0:38:50.560 --> 0:38:56.000 like competition mountain lion kittens. But that because they're um 0:38:56.040 --> 0:38:59.319 displacing the elk out of where they used to be, 0:38:59.560 --> 0:39:02.920 where they accessible by mountain lions being like more in 0:39:03.000 --> 0:39:06.719 the mountains in forested areas, pushing them out into more 0:39:06.760 --> 0:39:09.760 open areas where cats do not like to spend time 0:39:09.840 --> 0:39:12.799 and and don't go um that the cats are having 0:39:12.800 --> 0:39:15.880 a much harder time, you know, finding and and and 0:39:15.920 --> 0:39:18.799 then killing their prey. Um. On top of that, the 0:39:18.840 --> 0:39:21.400 wolves steal the kills that they made, so they're getting 0:39:21.480 --> 0:39:25.320 hit like three ways. They're getting at, their foods, getting displaced, 0:39:25.320 --> 0:39:28.000 and their food is getting stolen exactly by the wolves, 0:39:28.800 --> 0:39:32.120 which leads me to believe I want to clarify to like, 0:39:32.160 --> 0:39:33.880 just like is your point out? I want to clarify too. 0:39:34.760 --> 0:39:39.840 I don't agree with everything that our governor does. I 0:39:39.840 --> 0:39:42.200 don't think this has anything to do with that. It's 0:39:42.239 --> 0:39:45.600 just a way that stuff gets reported. That's maddening to me. 0:39:45.600 --> 0:39:47.239 And it's like again and again and again. But you 0:39:47.280 --> 0:39:49.200 take this thing with like how mountain lion numbers have 0:39:49.280 --> 0:39:51.120 gone down as wolves. I'm not and I'm not saying 0:39:52.160 --> 0:39:54.880 I support wolves on the landscape. I'm not anti wolf. 0:39:54.920 --> 0:39:57.120 But why didn't this person write an article when when 0:39:57.160 --> 0:39:59.080 G and four take killed a wolf? Why didn't he 0:39:59.120 --> 0:40:01.080 write an article about what a nice thing he did 0:40:01.080 --> 0:40:04.759 for mountain lions? Or could you could have made a 0:40:04.800 --> 0:40:07.600 salacious headline, you could have taken as many liberties and 0:40:07.640 --> 0:40:13.480 said uh. Montana's Governor Greg Ganforte saves many Yellowstone National 0:40:13.560 --> 0:40:17.360 Park mountain lions and he'd like, oh, that's interesting, and 0:40:17.360 --> 0:40:19.279 he'd really be like, oh, he killed a wolf. I'll 0:40:19.320 --> 0:40:22.000 tell you what. I'll tell you what though, he should 0:40:22.000 --> 0:40:26.200 consider it, like maybe not shooting collared animals, like because 0:40:26.320 --> 0:40:29.520 because the attention it draws, sure, and like he could 0:40:29.520 --> 0:40:32.279 have walked up to that line and said he's got 0:40:32.280 --> 0:40:34.400 a collar on it. Maybe I should just let that 0:40:34.440 --> 0:40:37.520 one go for science purposes, like you know, and then 0:40:37.560 --> 0:40:40.719 go find another line, like I'm just playing devil, right. 0:40:40.800 --> 0:40:44.920 They immediately reported, they immediately called a game warden. Yeah, 0:40:45.080 --> 0:40:47.640 you'll point this out too. Here's why you don't really 0:40:47.640 --> 0:40:49.880 know that because remember when Florida was doing a mortality 0:40:49.920 --> 0:40:52.319 study on deer and he had a bunch of deer 0:40:52.400 --> 0:40:55.640 run around with collars. It was a mortality study and 0:40:55.680 --> 0:40:59.680 the state was trying to implore people, don't shoot it 0:41:00.080 --> 0:41:04.400 cause it has a collar. Don't not shoot it because 0:41:04.440 --> 0:41:07.400 it has a collar. I'm trying to find out what 0:41:07.560 --> 0:41:11.400 kills stuff. Just try to act normal. I'm just saying, 0:41:11.600 --> 0:41:14.880 if you're poking around near the borders of Yellowstone National 0:41:14.960 --> 0:41:17.760 Park and there's a wolf for a line with a collar, 0:41:17.800 --> 0:41:25.440 and you're the governor, yeah, I could see. I would personally, 0:41:25.640 --> 0:41:28.320 it would just depend on a lot of things unless 0:41:28.320 --> 0:41:30.680 I knew what the collering project was all about. And 0:41:30.960 --> 0:41:32.200 I don't know. I don't know what they do because 0:41:32.200 --> 0:41:33.520 a lot of times the stuff that's wearing a collar 0:41:33.560 --> 0:41:36.719 and it's not good anymore, they don't even care. It's 0:41:36.719 --> 0:41:38.480 like it's a collar from years ago. They haven't they 0:41:38.520 --> 0:41:40.560 haven't retranked it to pull the collar or putt new 0:41:40.560 --> 0:41:43.680 batteries that I don't know enough about it. I personally, 0:41:44.360 --> 0:41:46.680 I've said a thousand times on this podcast at least 0:41:46.680 --> 0:41:51.440 three Um, I'm I like a banded duck more than 0:41:51.440 --> 0:41:53.320 the next guy. But I would not shoot a banded 0:41:53.360 --> 0:41:55.279 big game animal with a collar on it because it 0:41:55.320 --> 0:41:58.520 would feel like touched. It wouldn't feel it would feel 0:41:58.520 --> 0:42:01.800 like it had already been. Uh, it was like less 0:42:01.840 --> 0:42:04.560 magical and wild. So if you were called in a 0:42:04.600 --> 0:42:08.919 big six point bowl and the Missouri River breaks and 0:42:09.000 --> 0:42:13.000 he's standing there broadside with your bow, you wouldn't shoot 0:42:13.080 --> 0:42:14.640 him and he had if he had a caller on it. 0:42:17.280 --> 0:42:32.040 Big bull sixty, Yeah, unless three of them and one 0:42:32.120 --> 0:42:35.960 had a collar and the bigger one didn't. My thing 0:42:36.040 --> 0:42:39.439 is like, I don't know, there's a lot of things 0:42:39.440 --> 0:42:44.960 that are like even cheap are introduced, and they've been reintroduced, reintroduced. 0:42:44.960 --> 0:42:48.200 Excuse me, um, you know, like in that population has 0:42:48.239 --> 0:42:52.400 been touched in a way. We're influencing everything basically humans. 0:42:52.680 --> 0:42:56.560 I think, just like like you said, just being normal 0:42:56.600 --> 0:43:00.200 and doing what you would normally do when you you know, 0:43:00.600 --> 0:43:03.520 when you're hunting. Not letting that influence too much because 0:43:03.560 --> 0:43:06.319 that study at the very point that study that they're 0:43:06.360 --> 0:43:08.319 putting collars on they want to see how many are 0:43:08.400 --> 0:43:12.439 killed by hunters. We don't know that what you think right, Well, 0:43:12.480 --> 0:43:14.400 in the case of this Florida dear thing, I don't 0:43:14.400 --> 0:43:16.320 know why this thing had a Colorado. It might have 0:43:16.320 --> 0:43:19.560 been a mortality study. If it's a mortality study, um, 0:43:19.600 --> 0:43:21.719 and it was a big time, then whoever put that 0:43:21.760 --> 0:43:24.120 collar on it, it's probably glad. They probably got their 0:43:24.160 --> 0:43:26.440 collar back now they know. If it was some other study, 0:43:26.480 --> 0:43:28.879 they might be like, damn it, it's expensive to get 0:43:28.920 --> 0:43:32.640 the collars out. We got the collar out. But in 0:43:32.680 --> 0:43:35.480 the case in my sheep hunt, like I had multiple 0:43:35.560 --> 0:43:39.560 people that we're working on these this herd that we're 0:43:39.640 --> 0:43:42.279 calling them and had just recently collared them. So the 0:43:42.280 --> 0:43:47.200 study had just kicked off, and they very very nicely 0:43:47.320 --> 0:43:50.759 but implored me not to shoot at one with the 0:43:50.840 --> 0:43:53.880 collar on it because just because of the hours it 0:43:53.960 --> 0:43:56.280 had taken to get all that worked on, the money 0:43:56.320 --> 0:43:58.799 invested in it, and in the end they're like, look, 0:43:58.840 --> 0:44:01.239 it's your tag, it's not a lead, have at it. 0:44:01.320 --> 0:44:03.200 But it would be great if you shot one without 0:44:03.200 --> 0:44:08.719 a collar. It's very species dependent to where you're at. Yeah, yeah, 0:44:08.800 --> 0:44:11.600 I feel like this is this is in my mind, 0:44:11.640 --> 0:44:14.120 it's a relevant story because it's like you have a person, 0:44:14.239 --> 0:44:17.160 like you have a person he's in a high profile position, 0:44:17.200 --> 0:44:20.640 you have he there's a person that enjoys going hunting, 0:44:21.200 --> 0:44:23.560 goes out and does something and nothing happens. Like he 0:44:23.719 --> 0:44:27.160 goes out and does something like according to law and 0:44:28.360 --> 0:44:30.839 as set up by the Game Commission, you know, as 0:44:30.960 --> 0:44:33.279 enforced by the Montana state thing, and it has to 0:44:33.280 --> 0:44:35.160 be reported upon it as though you did something wrong. 0:44:37.040 --> 0:44:38.600 And the wolf thing, it was reported that he did 0:44:38.640 --> 0:44:44.080 something wrong, but it was reported like he tried. If 0:44:44.080 --> 0:44:46.680 you get a normal trapping license in Montana, it's just 0:44:46.719 --> 0:44:49.280 an over the counter transaction. If you're gonna trap wolves, 0:44:49.280 --> 0:44:51.440 you need to go online and take a free you 0:44:51.520 --> 0:44:56.560 watch this free online video. He hadn't watched the he 0:44:56.600 --> 0:45:00.720 hadn't done the online video, the Wolf certification online video. 0:45:01.520 --> 0:45:04.560 There's no fine for it. It's a free video. He 0:45:04.600 --> 0:45:06.880 hadn't watched the video was told to go watch the video. 0:45:07.160 --> 0:45:11.480 You'd have thought, you know, I thought it was presented. 0:45:11.600 --> 0:45:15.200 You thought there had been like some heinous violation. There 0:45:15.239 --> 0:45:17.400 was a minor violation. And then if you went and 0:45:17.760 --> 0:45:21.400 people are like shocked at the how low the punishment was. 0:45:21.440 --> 0:45:23.120 But then the wardens are like, no, the punishment is 0:45:23.120 --> 0:45:24.560 perfectly in keeping with what we do. When you don't 0:45:24.600 --> 0:45:27.560 watch the video, you gonta watch the video. I thought 0:45:27.560 --> 0:45:30.400 you couldn't get it tag Now, like when you're getting 0:45:30.400 --> 0:45:33.080 those licenses without doing like you gotta do that video. 0:45:33.120 --> 0:45:35.080 You have to get Wolf vetano that hasn't gone to 0:45:35.160 --> 0:45:38.719 effect yet. You'd have to get a Wolf validation. You 0:45:38.760 --> 0:45:41.239 get the Wolf validation by doing the free online thing. 0:45:41.320 --> 0:45:44.920 The guy had not done the online thing, which is 0:45:45.520 --> 0:45:49.160 against the law, and was called out for such in 0:45:49.160 --> 0:45:52.480 this case. And I'm not saying like, I'm not serious 0:45:52.480 --> 0:45:53.879 to be like he should not have watched the video. 0:45:53.880 --> 0:45:55.399 Of course he should have watched the video. And it's 0:45:55.400 --> 0:45:57.880 fair to point it out, but in this case, nothing happened, 0:45:58.760 --> 0:46:00.680 and it's this thing. It's like it's like the thing 0:46:00.719 --> 0:46:02.960 that like it's like a thing coming from the media 0:46:03.040 --> 0:46:05.960 where in certain circles, like if it involves Yellowstone and 0:46:06.000 --> 0:46:09.600 if it involves wildlife, it's just this this, this idea 0:46:09.680 --> 0:46:13.200 that seems to be growing and spreading that, um, while 0:46:13.280 --> 0:46:17.040 the state management of wildlife is bad and naughty and 0:46:17.080 --> 0:46:20.440 it should be managed by the National Park Service. I 0:46:20.480 --> 0:46:22.920 don't even know if people understand that. I mean, I 0:46:22.960 --> 0:46:26.240 totally agree with Yanni. I don't even I don't even 0:46:26.280 --> 0:46:29.320 know if people understand it to that extent, and they've 0:46:29.360 --> 0:46:34.280 made such a nuanced argument in their mind. I think sadly, 0:46:34.600 --> 0:46:39.360 there's it's it's not even that it's misleading and biased. 0:46:39.520 --> 0:46:43.000 It's like I would I would really hope that various 0:46:43.040 --> 0:46:46.239 media sources can cover information like this in a more 0:46:46.360 --> 0:46:51.520 educational way. So, for example, same story NBC News Tim Fitzimmons, 0:46:51.560 --> 0:46:56.120 the headline is Montana Governor Gen Forte hunts kills National 0:46:56.160 --> 0:46:59.799 Park Service tract mountain lions, and then you can go 0:47:00.160 --> 0:47:04.800 through his article, um, and it just seems to serve 0:47:04.880 --> 0:47:08.200 up information that is educational I don't even think that 0:47:08.200 --> 0:47:10.960 that that that headline doesn't bother me. There's a there's 0:47:11.000 --> 0:47:15.239 a there's an extra grind, but at least it's like, yeah, 0:47:15.280 --> 0:47:18.359 that's I would give him like a high, a much 0:47:18.480 --> 0:47:22.920 higher fairness and headlines. Right, It's like, what is information 0:47:23.080 --> 0:47:30.120 being relayed versus what is a headline whose language um 0:47:30.280 --> 0:47:33.840 is just kind of twists or has a backstory or 0:47:33.960 --> 0:47:36.319 kind of colors or ship something in a way it 0:47:36.320 --> 0:47:38.799 has a purpose? Right? What else pisses me off about it? Now? 0:47:38.840 --> 0:47:40.839 I mean to go on all night about it. Day 0:47:40.840 --> 0:47:46.759 it's just lit like night. Like I said, we have 0:47:46.800 --> 0:47:50.760 a lighting issue. It's all lamplet in here. I'm getting 0:47:50.800 --> 0:47:58.359 like thirst for beer. It's not beard feels like a board, 0:47:58.400 --> 0:48:04.920 don't night so um. He also says that it prompting 0:48:04.960 --> 0:48:11.280 an outcry among environmentalists. Those aren't environmentalists. What you're talking 0:48:11.320 --> 0:48:15.000 about our animal rights activists. And I would really appreciate 0:48:15.080 --> 0:48:18.959 people not confuse those two things they have overlap. They're 0:48:19.080 --> 0:48:26.440 not the same thing. Not the same thing. No, no, 0:48:26.640 --> 0:48:29.680 but listen, listen, I think we we do. I would 0:48:29.760 --> 0:48:33.200 like to just point out that out of all the 0:48:33.280 --> 0:48:35.640 critters in this lovely state, that we reside in the 0:48:35.719 --> 0:48:39.240 hunt in Uh, there's probably none other that are managed 0:48:39.400 --> 0:48:43.839 more than mountain lions. Oh um. Yeah, it's so much 0:48:43.880 --> 0:48:46.040 so that people don't even bother because they can't understand 0:48:46.920 --> 0:48:50.080 the regulatory structure. Body. I mean, every morning that I 0:48:50.120 --> 0:48:52.320 go out to like even just go look for tracks, 0:48:52.560 --> 0:48:55.000 I'm gonna check the quota in the region that I'm 0:48:55.000 --> 0:48:57.319 gonna go in and see where it's at. Some of 0:48:57.320 --> 0:48:59.960 them are like a total quota where it's like, yeah, 0:49:00.239 --> 0:49:02.560 ten total can be killed. That's a high one. It's 0:49:02.560 --> 0:49:04.560 probably more like, you know, between five and seven and 0:49:04.680 --> 0:49:07.160 most but some of them are like, oh it's seven, 0:49:07.200 --> 0:49:09.520 but only three can be females. Some of them is 0:49:09.520 --> 0:49:12.280 completely opposite where it's seven but only four can be males. 0:49:12.880 --> 0:49:15.560 And like you've really got to know what's going on. 0:49:15.640 --> 0:49:19.200 They're they're almost managing them like by the hour or 0:49:19.239 --> 0:49:23.359 the day like that closely. You know, they're keeping such 0:49:23.400 --> 0:49:26.160 a close eye on them. Yeah, whereas deer you got 0:49:26.200 --> 0:49:29.439 a damn gas station by a deer license. Yeah, yeah, 0:49:29.560 --> 0:49:32.520 even like bears, you know over the counter tag here. 0:49:32.840 --> 0:49:35.520 You know, there's like one small place in Montana where 0:49:35.520 --> 0:49:38.640 there's a quota and they should especially not be hacking 0:49:38.640 --> 0:49:41.759 on I don't mean to be like, oh, like pro Montana, 0:49:41.800 --> 0:49:43.279 I don't know. I guess I don't mind. But here's 0:49:43.280 --> 0:49:45.120 the thing they should be hacking on this day, because 0:49:45.160 --> 0:49:46.799 there's a lot of states to still run lion. They 0:49:46.880 --> 0:49:51.439 still manage lions as vermin Texas. I think they still 0:49:51.480 --> 0:49:55.200 manage lions like they have like no management plan on lions. 0:49:55.480 --> 0:49:57.279 They still got like kill them all that God sort 0:49:57.320 --> 0:50:00.600 them out attitude. In this state for decade just managed 0:50:00.640 --> 0:50:02.840 them as it like a tightly managed big game animal, 0:50:03.640 --> 0:50:06.080 which gives which is like way better for if you 0:50:06.320 --> 0:50:09.200 if you like mountain lions and you like what I 0:50:09.239 --> 0:50:11.600 could be like hunting lions, like seeing lions, I would 0:50:11.640 --> 0:50:13.840 applaud a state that runs them like a big game animal, 0:50:13.920 --> 0:50:16.480 not a state that runs them like coyotes. In a 0:50:16.480 --> 0:50:18.279 lot of places in the Southwest still treat them with 0:50:18.320 --> 0:50:20.319 about the same they treat with the same matterite they 0:50:20.320 --> 0:50:22.359 treat coyotes. They don't track it, they don't know what's 0:50:22.360 --> 0:50:24.960 going on. Huge seasons used to be able to shoot 0:50:25.120 --> 0:50:30.600 like a female with kids. Here's here's where it all 0:50:30.800 --> 0:50:33.920 comes back around. Here's where it all comes back around. 0:50:34.360 --> 0:50:36.120 I'm gonna get to that story because it's a good one. 0:50:36.120 --> 0:50:38.480 You're gonna love my mountain lion story. But it all 0:50:38.520 --> 0:50:43.040 comes back around too. If we didn't have hound handlers 0:50:43.080 --> 0:50:47.080 that were interested in in mountain lions, they're probably there, 0:50:47.120 --> 0:50:50.120 maybe wouldn't be any not only in Montana, but in 0:50:50.280 --> 0:50:54.800 the park itself, because as we heard from Jim Williams, 0:50:54.960 --> 0:50:57.000 go and listen to the podcast, I love it. It's 0:50:57.040 --> 0:51:00.680 one of my favorites. Number of the puma Jim Williams, 0:51:00.760 --> 0:51:03.040 who worked for Montana Sate for a long time, maybe 0:51:03.200 --> 0:51:06.840 one of the world's leading exactly, might not be anybody 0:51:06.840 --> 0:51:08.960 that's messed around with cats of all kinds more than 0:51:09.040 --> 0:51:12.239 he has. He said it in the podcast. If it 0:51:12.360 --> 0:51:15.640 wasn't for the hound handlers of Montana, that probably wouldn't 0:51:15.640 --> 0:51:20.160 be cats here. Get lucky enough to see one in 0:51:20.200 --> 0:51:22.919 the park or outside of the park or wherever. Thank 0:51:22.960 --> 0:51:26.480 those people that every now and then chase the hounds 0:51:26.560 --> 0:51:28.919 chase went into a tree, and then and then someone 0:51:28.960 --> 0:51:31.600 comes and kills it. More times than not they get 0:51:31.680 --> 0:51:33.960 chased into a tree, everybody looks at it, takes a picture, 0:51:33.960 --> 0:51:38.759 and everybody walks away. Uh. To paraphrase the guests you're 0:51:38.760 --> 0:51:42.520 talking about he's not a lion hunter, but the paraphrase, 0:51:42.560 --> 0:51:45.160 but he said, he's like basically, I tread real light 0:51:45.160 --> 0:51:47.239 when it comes to hack and on Houndsman, because it 0:51:47.280 --> 0:51:49.839 was Houndsman that were sounding the alarm a long time 0:51:49.880 --> 0:51:53.200 ago about the need to manage mountain lions and get 0:51:53.200 --> 0:51:55.319 out of the business of bounty hunting. I'm poison and 0:51:55.360 --> 0:51:57.239 I'm killing them. They were the ones that wanted up. 0:51:57.360 --> 0:52:00.360 They were the ones saying, man, we gotta get grip 0:52:00.400 --> 0:52:07.160 on the program and protect lions for for for punishment. 0:52:07.560 --> 0:52:10.760 For this guy having such a dumb headline, he should 0:52:10.880 --> 0:52:12.720 he Probably the thing is he didn't write that headline. 0:52:12.800 --> 0:52:15.319 Whoever did the headline, they should be tasked to write 0:52:15.360 --> 0:52:18.520 an article for every elk, every one of Yellowstones elk 0:52:18.600 --> 0:52:21.319 that gets killed legally in Montana every year. He get 0:52:21.320 --> 0:52:23.480 writers cramped and then he spent the rest of his 0:52:23.640 --> 0:52:27.000 life just writing articles about people shooting legal elk. Yeah, 0:52:27.200 --> 0:52:28.799 every day of the season. He had to be like, 0:52:29.239 --> 0:52:34.560 hundreds of Yellowstone elk killed over in Cody, Wyoming. There 0:52:34.640 --> 0:52:37.279 just needs to be a little bit more education in, 0:52:37.560 --> 0:52:41.399 you know, among those folks writing headlines from the environmental 0:52:42.760 --> 0:52:45.399 and climate desk. Yeah, well that makes me bad because 0:52:45.400 --> 0:52:51.240 I'm an environmentalist. Uh, I self identify as an environmentalist, 0:52:51.360 --> 0:52:53.719 and I just I just it just kills me to 0:52:53.800 --> 0:53:06.000 see this frame in that way. All right, speaking of 0:53:06.000 --> 0:53:08.239 mountain lions, Yohnning. Now we're digging in on Johnny here. 0:53:09.719 --> 0:53:11.719 Let me let me start with a Here's I want 0:53:11.760 --> 0:53:15.480 to start with this question? Has play Phil play the 0:53:15.560 --> 0:53:36.880 Mingus song Trampled by Turtles inga has Mingus? Um, gimme 0:53:36.960 --> 0:53:46.600 Mingus is current resume. He's currently been under approximately a 0:53:46.760 --> 0:53:51.520 dozen ten to a dozen if you count all all 0:53:51.560 --> 0:53:54.840 of them. But yeah, roughly a dozen trees with mountain 0:53:54.880 --> 0:53:58.400 lions in them, which means you have Yeah, that's pretty 0:53:58.520 --> 0:54:02.759 that's great. Now when you start to you know, purposely 0:54:02.920 --> 0:54:05.680 pursue it, you know, more often than just once when 0:54:05.680 --> 0:54:07.760 you just were making a show about it with your buddy, 0:54:07.800 --> 0:54:09.880 then yeah, you start to see him more. Are you 0:54:09.920 --> 0:54:15.040 beyond the holy shit? It's the tree face a little bit, 0:54:15.080 --> 0:54:18.640 but not too much, not too much. Yeah, you still 0:54:18.680 --> 0:54:22.560 get like like like by god. Yeah, but I would 0:54:22.600 --> 0:54:25.640 say that the reason being that I don't quite you know, 0:54:26.239 --> 0:54:28.440 I'm not as fascinated by that line as much anymore 0:54:28.560 --> 0:54:31.920 is because the attention of my dog. My dog's taking 0:54:31.920 --> 0:54:35.200 my attention because I'm there. I'm like, oh my god, 0:54:35.320 --> 0:54:38.800 my dog's there at the bottom of that tree. Yeah, 0:54:38.920 --> 0:54:40.880 and he's like, no, he like sees the line, he's 0:54:40.920 --> 0:54:42.600 barking the line. He's doing what he's supposed to be doing. 0:54:42.840 --> 0:54:45.839 And but no, I always still take a few quite 0:54:45.840 --> 0:54:48.080 a few minutes to sit there and awe. When you 0:54:48.080 --> 0:54:50.200 get to see one sitting in a tree, it's pretty 0:54:50.200 --> 0:54:55.239 Specially when I saw one, it was like so snowy, 0:54:57.080 --> 0:54:59.040 you know, and like for days you're just looking at 0:54:59.320 --> 0:55:05.719 green and white timber and snow never ending expanses, and 0:55:05.760 --> 0:55:11.399 there's the thing, like the most alive, reddish brownish thing 0:55:11.520 --> 0:55:17.000 that like has ever existed on a limb, and it 0:55:17.120 --> 0:55:20.319 just is burned in my mind. Yeah, you're talking about 0:55:20.360 --> 0:55:27.160 this is from the Idahome hunt. Yeah, just like there's 0:55:27.200 --> 0:55:30.600 a lions standard in that tree and I can look 0:55:30.640 --> 0:55:33.799 at it for as long as I want. No, I mean, 0:55:34.040 --> 0:55:37.799 and just we just heard how rare and elusive they 0:55:37.840 --> 0:55:40.759 are from uh, you know, the prior thing we just 0:55:40.800 --> 0:55:44.560 talked about. And you know, the only guy I know 0:55:44.719 --> 0:55:48.000 it's seen a whole bunch of lions. And it's not 0:55:48.080 --> 0:55:50.600 a hound hunter doesn't really do that much, is Jay Scott. 0:55:50.719 --> 0:55:54.799 But that's because he sits behind giant binoculars, right for like, 0:55:55.719 --> 0:56:00.360 you know how many hours are in a year, Broady, 0:56:00.400 --> 0:56:03.200 and he spent a lot of a lot of hours 0:56:03.239 --> 0:56:05.600 just glass and glass and glass, and and that's how 0:56:05.640 --> 0:56:08.440 I had seen two of the three mount lions. I 0:56:08.480 --> 0:56:11.640 think I had seen three before I started doing hound hunting, 0:56:12.000 --> 0:56:14.640 and two or three binoculars. One was one just you know, 0:56:14.719 --> 0:56:17.920 jumping across the road in the headlights. One came up 0:56:17.960 --> 0:56:20.160 to your turkey hunt. Oh I know, but that was 0:56:20.400 --> 0:56:24.640 after I started, you know how hot. But yeah, you 0:56:24.680 --> 0:56:26.520 just don't get to see him otherwise, you know, it's 0:56:26.520 --> 0:56:32.960 a special deal. So, uh, your dog now knows that 0:56:32.960 --> 0:56:36.280 that's what it's that at the end of this trail. 0:56:36.400 --> 0:56:38.880 Is that thing in a tree? Correct? But is it 0:56:38.920 --> 0:56:45.520 participating in the catch? It's a spectator? Um, my friends 0:56:45.760 --> 0:56:49.360 and mentors tell me that he is. I'm still novice 0:56:49.440 --> 0:56:50.839 enough for it. I think someone us have a hard 0:56:50.840 --> 0:56:54.480 time but looking at the GPS and actually knowing. But 0:56:54.600 --> 0:56:58.319 like being with Bart George, being with uh our buddy Jake, 0:56:58.920 --> 0:57:00.960 like they're always like Oh yeah, Mingus is right there. 0:57:01.000 --> 0:57:02.640 He might have not been the first dog of the tree, 0:57:02.680 --> 0:57:04.920 but he was there two seconds later. You know, like 0:57:04.960 --> 0:57:07.080 he knows what's up, he's doing in the job. And 0:57:07.120 --> 0:57:10.840 I think that I just and that's why hopefully in 0:57:10.880 --> 0:57:13.840 the next week or two, I'm gonna do a little 0:57:13.840 --> 0:57:16.720 bit of hunting, just he and I because that's we're 0:57:16.720 --> 0:57:19.560 sort of at this place. For me to answer this question, 0:57:20.040 --> 0:57:23.080 I need to go out there find the track for myself, 0:57:23.240 --> 0:57:24.880 which is a big thing that I haven't yet to 0:57:24.880 --> 0:57:27.840 even do, is just like find one identify as a lion, 0:57:28.200 --> 0:57:30.520 and then just put Mingus on it, and then just 0:57:30.600 --> 0:57:32.040 the two of us go and do it and see 0:57:32.080 --> 0:57:34.840 what happens in the area that's closed. When there's a 0:57:35.000 --> 0:57:38.480 unit that's closed because of quota, can you run? Correct? 0:57:38.560 --> 0:57:40.800 You still can't? You can still run? Oh yeah until April. 0:57:40.920 --> 0:57:46.760 I think it's four. Uh do do like, do the 0:57:46.800 --> 0:57:52.400 people around you if if Mingus was never gonna make it? Um? Well, 0:57:52.440 --> 0:57:55.280 the people around you say that, yeah, But I think 0:57:55.320 --> 0:57:59.280 that most people would experience hounds, hound handlers would tell 0:57:59.280 --> 0:58:01.720 you that it's not the dog, it's just that you 0:58:01.760 --> 0:58:04.000 haven't done enough work with a dog. They all have 0:58:04.080 --> 0:58:05.880 it in him. And the more I've done this, I've 0:58:05.880 --> 0:58:11.200 heard about like little uh weener dogs that run tracks. 0:58:11.320 --> 0:58:13.520 I've heard about labs that have been on a whole 0:58:13.520 --> 0:58:17.120 bunch of mountain lion tracks and in trees, like you 0:58:17.160 --> 0:58:19.280 need to teach the dog what you wanted to do. 0:58:19.440 --> 0:58:22.120 They all have these amazing noses and like you put 0:58:22.160 --> 0:58:24.959 the time in and it's gonna happen. Jay keeps telling 0:58:24.960 --> 0:58:27.880 me it takes twenty trees to have like a finished dog. 0:58:28.160 --> 0:58:30.440 When when you when your dog has been to twenty 0:58:30.480 --> 0:58:33.800 mountain lion trees, like that dog, at that point you're 0:58:33.800 --> 0:58:36.080 gonna say either he's got it or he doesn't. Right 0:58:36.280 --> 0:58:40.680 after twenty tracks and trees, so he's got eight more 0:58:41.360 --> 0:58:43.240 and then you might be out digging a hole out back. 0:58:43.920 --> 0:58:48.959 I don't think. Well, let me ask you this though, 0:58:52.080 --> 0:58:55.560 is it fair to say that, like, because you have 0:58:55.680 --> 0:58:58.520 kids and stuff, you were gonna get a dog, right 0:58:59.640 --> 0:59:02.480 and you got out of pound puppy and it was 0:59:02.520 --> 0:59:08.680 a hound. Knowing what you now know, do you wish 0:59:08.720 --> 0:59:13.080 you'd just gone and bought like some you know, pedigree 0:59:13.880 --> 0:59:19.520 line like it's eighteen grandfathers were all famous lion hounds no, no, 0:59:20.440 --> 0:59:22.120 I don't. I don't want to say it's cheating, but 0:59:22.200 --> 0:59:25.880 like I've enjoyed the journey, you know, with with Mingus 0:59:26.200 --> 0:59:28.000 and so, and I don't know if I would have 0:59:28.040 --> 0:59:30.720 been able to appreciate it. You know, what's the good? 0:59:30.720 --> 0:59:33.160 What's the real good? Mountain lion, pedigreed puppy go for 0:59:34.080 --> 0:59:36.360 like just I have no idea, but I bet you 0:59:36.520 --> 0:59:40.560 could easily spend a thousand bucks. Oh yeah, bird dogs 0:59:40.840 --> 0:59:43.240 you know, like and plus man, if you'd got one 0:59:43.240 --> 0:59:46.080 of those, you'd have had such high expectations. And that's 0:59:46.120 --> 0:59:52.320 what the dog was for, Like, you know, it's everything's 0:59:53.000 --> 0:59:59.400 like Meingus exceeds expectations every day. Um say, not that 0:59:59.440 --> 1:00:01.640 I think this to happen at all, but say, for 1:00:01.680 --> 1:00:03.920 whatever reason, you get the twenty trees and he's just 1:00:03.960 --> 1:00:08.360 like not doing it. You know, you're gonna put him 1:00:08.400 --> 1:00:10.880 back on the couch with the girls and get another hand, 1:00:11.080 --> 1:00:14.400 another one possibly, yeah, and then not going to go 1:00:14.440 --> 1:00:18.120 down to the pound again. No no, no, no, then 1:00:17.200 --> 1:00:22.520 I would be mining all my best resources. I would 1:00:22.520 --> 1:00:25.400 to go smaller. That's I mean, we love Megus in 1:00:25.400 --> 1:00:29.200 our house, but he's an eighty pound big boy and uh, 1:00:29.360 --> 1:00:31.640 you could have. You can have two or three hounds 1:00:31.640 --> 1:00:34.360 that fit into the same package. Yeah, you know, most dogs, well, 1:00:34.400 --> 1:00:35.960 to know what's going on in the counter, they got 1:00:35.960 --> 1:00:37.560 to kind of walk with their nose up and then 1:00:37.600 --> 1:00:40.960 kind of like that dog just looks. He kind of 1:00:40.960 --> 1:00:43.440 has to just turn his head sideways a little bit 1:00:43.520 --> 1:00:46.160 and that gets in the angles. Oh, that's what's on 1:00:46.200 --> 1:00:51.160 the counter. But no, the story I've been meaning to 1:00:51.200 --> 1:00:56.280 tell you, it's kind of funny, is over the holidays. Uh, 1:00:56.400 --> 1:00:59.040 my sister and her family were visiting with four kids. 1:01:00.360 --> 1:01:03.120 My mom was visiting, so we're quite the full house. 1:01:03.280 --> 1:01:05.800 And a couple of days we went up to Disneyland 1:01:05.840 --> 1:01:09.000 also known as h Bridger Ski Hill up there at 1:01:09.120 --> 1:01:13.000 Bridger Canyon, and uh, one day as we're leaving, right 1:01:13.040 --> 1:01:15.200 around I don't know, three thirty four, we started getting 1:01:15.200 --> 1:01:17.760 text from my mom and I'm not even getting them. 1:01:17.760 --> 1:01:20.560 They're coming. I'm reading. I'm getting the information from like 1:01:20.640 --> 1:01:24.480 my sister and my mom and my wife, and they're like, yeah, 1:01:24.480 --> 1:01:26.800 your mom's saying that in the course of the day, 1:01:27.080 --> 1:01:30.080 she's seen like a fox, a raccoon, And now there's 1:01:30.120 --> 1:01:32.440 a couple of links trying to climb the fence to 1:01:32.480 --> 1:01:35.600 get into where the turkeys and chickens are. I'm like, 1:01:35.680 --> 1:01:44.200 holy sh it's quite them almost moved my house. Look 1:01:44.640 --> 1:01:48.240 look at us. We're up here being dumbass, is just skiing. 1:01:48.480 --> 1:01:50.800 We could have been at home, you know, seeing how 1:01:50.840 --> 1:01:55.000 it's amazing wildlife. So, you know, I finally get my 1:01:55.000 --> 1:01:57.040 mom on the phone. I'm like, okay, tell me exactly. 1:01:57.160 --> 1:01:59.240 She's like, no, I'm for sure they had you know. 1:01:59.520 --> 1:02:02.520 She's just driving like rings on the tail of one animal. 1:02:02.600 --> 1:02:04.520 I'm like, okay, it could have been a coon, you know, 1:02:05.120 --> 1:02:09.760 and then uh this other a warm days Uh no, 1:02:09.760 --> 1:02:13.200 no it was cold. Um, but the other animals, I said, 1:02:13.480 --> 1:02:16.160 describe the links to me? Said spots. She said, no, spots. 1:02:16.280 --> 1:02:18.880 How long was the tail? And she's like, you know, 1:02:18.920 --> 1:02:22.400 a foot or two? Like it sounds like a small lion, 1:02:22.600 --> 1:02:25.800 maybe more than likely. So she's like, well, yeah, Mingus 1:02:25.840 --> 1:02:27.200 and I were out there and he didn't even run 1:02:27.240 --> 1:02:35.440 after him, like Vengus got knocked down a note. So anyhow, 1:02:35.800 --> 1:02:39.080 we get home and uh, I like, I double check 1:02:39.120 --> 1:02:41.200 again with my mom where everything was. I'm like, okay, 1:02:41.200 --> 1:02:43.000 I'm gonna go look for tracks. So I go out 1:02:43.000 --> 1:02:45.640 there with Mingus and going towards the chicken coop, and 1:02:45.760 --> 1:02:49.439 in like seconds, Mingus is off like kind of where 1:02:49.480 --> 1:02:51.440 you where we cut down that tree, not the two 1:02:51.480 --> 1:02:54.200 cheese together, but the single. He's off behind the garage 1:02:54.200 --> 1:02:58.000 there down the hill, um cutting loose like banging. I'm like, 1:02:58.120 --> 1:02:59.480 what the hell is I don't even make it to 1:02:59.520 --> 1:03:02.360 look for t acts. I walk over there and yeah, 1:03:02.400 --> 1:03:05.880 there's like a twenty pound mountain lion up in the tree. Yeah. 1:03:06.120 --> 1:03:08.760 Turns out it was a pair. And now I don't 1:03:08.760 --> 1:03:12.760 know what happened, like little guys, little guys, But why 1:03:12.760 --> 1:03:15.520 did he want to chase him? The thing is is 1:03:15.600 --> 1:03:18.040 I wasn't there, so I can't for sure tell you 1:03:18.080 --> 1:03:21.120 that Mingus saw two small mountain lions and then just 1:03:21.160 --> 1:03:24.400 stood there. Maybe he didn't because I wasn't there. He 1:03:24.440 --> 1:03:27.000 didn't like think that that was the thing to do. 1:03:27.080 --> 1:03:29.120 It just doesn't seem right because that dog usually cuts 1:03:29.120 --> 1:03:31.920 out of the house like chasing after something before he's 1:03:31.920 --> 1:03:36.120 even seen it, you know. Uh. But anyway, yeah, and 1:03:36.160 --> 1:03:38.440 I can't I don't know. I went to get a 1:03:38.520 --> 1:03:41.240 light so we could show everybody mounta lion, because I mean, 1:03:41.240 --> 1:03:42.800 you could just stand next to the garage and see 1:03:42.800 --> 1:03:46.840 this cat in the tree, and as I'm gone, either 1:03:47.160 --> 1:03:50.440 that lion gets down and runs into another tree, or 1:03:50.480 --> 1:03:52.720 there's a because there ends up being too late. Like 1:03:52.760 --> 1:03:54.880 in the next couple of days, we see two small, 1:03:55.000 --> 1:03:58.600 you know, kittens, but mingus trees another cat like a 1:03:58.680 --> 1:04:01.960 hundred yards away on that same hillside. So in one 1:04:02.080 --> 1:04:08.720 night he got two trees. Are those counted within the dozen? Uh? Yeah? Um, 1:04:09.760 --> 1:04:13.400 you think they got orphaned? Yeah? I think so, yeah, 1:04:13.440 --> 1:04:16.800 and whether it's by We were trying to see if 1:04:17.040 --> 1:04:21.840 a female had been killed on the quota like recently. Um, 1:04:21.960 --> 1:04:24.120 and I obviously called the game one to see, hey, 1:04:24.160 --> 1:04:25.960 like what should I do about this? And he pretty 1:04:26.040 --> 1:04:29.280 much just said, man, you gotta like don't take any chances, 1:04:29.480 --> 1:04:31.480 Like if you feel like you want to put them down, 1:04:31.520 --> 1:04:33.640 put them down and just shoot him. We didn't want 1:04:33.680 --> 1:04:35.760 to do that. We're hoping that, you know, if they 1:04:35.800 --> 1:04:38.480 got too crazy and we're trying to mess around, well, yeah, 1:04:38.520 --> 1:04:41.560 because they hung out for like another four or thirty 1:04:41.600 --> 1:04:43.520 six hours, you know, like we saw him I think 1:04:43.680 --> 1:04:46.480 two or three more times, and I was definitely getting 1:04:46.520 --> 1:04:48.840 to the point where I had a rifle at the 1:04:48.880 --> 1:04:50.680 ready and I was kind of saying like if they 1:04:50.680 --> 1:04:52.880 show up again, like I'm just gonna shoot him, you know. 1:04:53.480 --> 1:04:56.240 And uh, And they had no interest in coming out 1:04:56.240 --> 1:04:58.560 and getting them. They just like let it play out 1:04:58.600 --> 1:05:01.360 like whatever. Well they'd I'd say, if you want us 1:05:01.400 --> 1:05:04.520 to come and take care of him, we will. But 1:05:04.600 --> 1:05:06.560 that's what taking care of would look like. Yeah, they'd 1:05:06.560 --> 1:05:13.000 euthanize them. Ah but yeah, either mom got killed by 1:05:13.280 --> 1:05:15.960 a hunter, she could have gotten struck by a car. 1:05:16.200 --> 1:05:18.600 Sometimes they'll leave I found out that they'll leave the 1:05:18.640 --> 1:05:21.360 kittens for days while they're out hunting. Then once they 1:05:21.400 --> 1:05:23.560 make the kill, they go get the kittens and then 1:05:23.640 --> 1:05:26.520 go back to the kill. Um, so we're hoping, yeah, 1:05:26.600 --> 1:05:28.880 maybe Mom will show back up in the next couple 1:05:28.880 --> 1:05:32.080 of days. But unfortunately for those two kittens, they went 1:05:32.160 --> 1:05:35.439 up and over the ridge and found themselves under someone 1:05:35.520 --> 1:05:38.200 else's deck. Those people called the game warr and he 1:05:38.280 --> 1:05:41.840 came and youthanized him. Oh really, how did you hear that? 1:05:42.200 --> 1:05:45.440 Oh he'd called into too. He called me back just 1:05:45.520 --> 1:05:50.360 to give me the update. The warden did huh did 1:05:50.360 --> 1:05:52.960 they Did they show like any fear you guys at all? 1:05:53.280 --> 1:05:55.360 Or Oh? Yeah, I mean they would when you went 1:05:55.360 --> 1:05:59.560 out there they'd walk away they know they weren't spotted. 1:06:01.640 --> 1:06:07.200 But yeah, so uh, that's kind of a fun little 1:06:07.240 --> 1:06:10.280 mangus cat story. We can talk about hunting cats to 1:06:10.920 --> 1:06:13.320 with Jake, but it's we didn't really get to do 1:06:13.360 --> 1:06:16.080 a lot of cat hunting. It's not a great hunting story. 1:06:16.640 --> 1:06:19.360 I'm curious other than other than catching that big old bobcat, 1:06:20.520 --> 1:06:24.560 which is like a big old bobcat, big old bobcat side, No, 1:06:24.720 --> 1:06:28.960 have you seen that little uh viral video of big 1:06:28.960 --> 1:06:32.720 old bobcat and the kid saying big old bobcat. Nobody 1:06:32.880 --> 1:06:37.600 like YouTube, Just google it and it'll come up. It's 1:06:39.040 --> 1:06:43.600 keep saying big old bobcat. Yeah, it's gonna go viral now. 1:06:44.360 --> 1:06:47.320 I think I think it already has. But yeah, the 1:06:47.480 --> 1:06:49.160 kids like, I don't even know if he has a 1:06:49.200 --> 1:06:50.760 be begun. He might just have a stick. And he 1:06:50.840 --> 1:06:53.520 sort of plays like he's shooting his own house cat. 1:06:53.640 --> 1:06:56.120 And he goes pee pee and he throws the stick aside, 1:06:56.480 --> 1:06:58.600 grabs a bobcat who's ever running the phone. It's like, 1:06:58.640 --> 1:07:02.000 what you got there? He's like no, After he does 1:07:02.040 --> 1:07:04.000 the shoot and he's like, that's what I'm talking about. 1:07:04.040 --> 1:07:06.560 Whole sun and it's like a four year old. He 1:07:06.680 --> 1:07:09.080 throws a stick aside, puts the cat up on his 1:07:09.120 --> 1:07:10.920 shoulder and goes got me. He's like, what do you got? 1:07:10.920 --> 1:07:14.479 You got big old? I got to play it here? 1:07:20.080 --> 1:07:31.000 Thank you. I'm coming down. What you got there? He's 1:07:31.040 --> 1:07:39.280 holding als cat. Oh man, big old bob cat. Um. Yeah. 1:07:39.280 --> 1:07:41.959 So Jake and I went hunted made an episode hunt 1:07:42.000 --> 1:07:47.040 lions in Montana and uh we cut tracks unfortunately where 1:07:47.040 --> 1:07:50.800 the tracks were like it sometimes happens when you're filming 1:07:50.880 --> 1:07:53.720 on land that we didn't even know we could have 1:07:53.720 --> 1:07:55.840 a hunted, so we didn't try to get the film 1:07:55.840 --> 1:07:59.080 permit for it. And uh we also had tracks going 1:07:59.120 --> 1:08:01.280 into private and we try to get private access and 1:08:01.320 --> 1:08:04.120 it just didn't pan out. So we didn't really get 1:08:04.120 --> 1:08:06.720 to run any lions on the trip. But we did 1:08:06.760 --> 1:08:11.800 get to run this one bobcat track and unfortunately Mangus 1:08:11.800 --> 1:08:15.640 didn't run that one because it was very deep snow, 1:08:16.080 --> 1:08:18.479 and Jake figured we needed all the advantage we could get. 1:08:18.840 --> 1:08:23.280 And bobcats, unlike lions, tend to be a lot more 1:08:23.360 --> 1:08:27.479 evasive and they actually when they know they're being pursued 1:08:27.520 --> 1:08:32.080 by dogs. Um. And this is according to hounds people 1:08:32.120 --> 1:08:35.440 that I talked to they actually start to make evasive maneuvers, 1:08:35.520 --> 1:08:37.320 and I've seen it even with Mangus. The one time 1:08:37.360 --> 1:08:39.400 we did a Bobcat, just he and I had a 1:08:39.400 --> 1:08:42.360 bobcat go into a tree and then leap so far 1:08:42.400 --> 1:08:45.280 out of that tree into the nearby snow that it 1:08:45.320 --> 1:08:47.640 took me, you know, five minutes of wandering around to 1:08:47.720 --> 1:08:49.840 kind of put two and two together, because I saw 1:08:49.880 --> 1:08:52.559 the tracks going into the tree, but there were no 1:08:52.600 --> 1:08:54.840 tracks leaving the tree, and I could see the whole tree. 1:08:54.840 --> 1:08:57.559 I'm like, where's the bobcat? And then you know, five 1:08:57.600 --> 1:08:59.360 minutes later, I could I see like what looks like 1:08:59.360 --> 1:09:02.519 a little greater you know, like twenty some feet away, 1:09:02.560 --> 1:09:04.360 and walk over there and there's the beginning of the 1:09:04.360 --> 1:09:07.200 track again. Right. So there's an example of like what 1:09:07.240 --> 1:09:11.240 they might do. Jake's dogs, two of them run silent 1:09:11.320 --> 1:09:14.479 on track, meaning like Mangus when he's on track every 1:09:14.880 --> 1:09:20.720 ten to thirty seconds. Yeah, and I like that. I 1:09:20.800 --> 1:09:24.479 like that silent killer dog idea many well. Back in 1:09:24.479 --> 1:09:27.439 the day before GPS collars, you had to have at 1:09:27.520 --> 1:09:31.040 least one dog that that was loud on trail because 1:09:31.080 --> 1:09:32.519 you had to stay with you. There's no way to 1:09:32.520 --> 1:09:36.800 stay with your dogs you don't know where, Yeah, exactly. 1:09:38.400 --> 1:09:40.439 So now you can have that because you can always 1:09:40.439 --> 1:09:43.960 see where they are via GPS collars. Yeah that's a 1:09:43.960 --> 1:09:46.440 good point, man, Like in the old days. Yeah, yeah, 1:09:46.640 --> 1:09:49.479 you had to be here, which I for whatever reason, 1:09:49.479 --> 1:09:52.400 I'm a little bit drawn towards that, and I'm silent 1:09:52.520 --> 1:09:56.320 killers no, no, no, I'm drawn towards for some reason, 1:09:56.360 --> 1:10:00.479 even though I've never done it, I'm nostalgic for or 1:10:01.040 --> 1:10:03.280 like having to run. And maybe it's just because I 1:10:03.360 --> 1:10:06.040 like the physical aspect of like running around in the 1:10:06.120 --> 1:10:09.960 hills and having to like purposely do physical ship on 1:10:10.000 --> 1:10:13.040 this hunt, which would be like, yeah, you gotta stay 1:10:13.080 --> 1:10:15.519 with the dogs, you gotta keep them in earshot at 1:10:15.560 --> 1:10:19.000 all times. But I've mentioned it to both Clay and Jake. 1:10:19.760 --> 1:10:21.240 We've been doing it a long time and they did 1:10:21.280 --> 1:10:27.520 it prior to GPS, and they're like, na, not interested. 1:10:29.040 --> 1:10:32.960 They like it just fine. Like this, Um, now when 1:10:32.960 --> 1:10:36.840 you get uh, are they when you go to run 1:10:36.880 --> 1:10:43.280 a bobcat? Um? Are they picking? They're looking for a 1:10:43.280 --> 1:10:46.160 big bobcat? Do they do they pass up small bobcat tracks? 1:10:46.160 --> 1:10:51.920 There's like any bobcat? Um? I think it would depend um. 1:10:51.960 --> 1:10:54.639 But yeah, I don't think that Jake likes to kill 1:10:54.760 --> 1:10:58.360 like small bobcats that are like the size of a 1:10:58.439 --> 1:11:01.639 house cat, so he he looks for a large track. Yeah, 1:11:01.680 --> 1:11:04.200 he probably would if he has time. I think he'd 1:11:04.200 --> 1:11:07.320 probably still run the bomb cat because I think it's 1:11:07.320 --> 1:11:10.200 like really good training because if your dog can run 1:11:10.200 --> 1:11:14.120 a bobcat, they can just about run anything. Um, So 1:11:14.120 --> 1:11:16.080 they'll probably still run it and then just you know, 1:11:16.280 --> 1:11:18.080 walk up to the tree, say hi and walk away. 1:11:18.439 --> 1:11:24.120 You know what my theory is about that bobcat dog thing, um, 1:11:24.160 --> 1:11:25.559 because on one hand, to be like, well, how would 1:11:25.560 --> 1:11:29.439 they ever develop the ability to evade hound dogs? But 1:11:29.479 --> 1:11:31.120 it has to be something with just the fact that 1:11:33.640 --> 1:11:36.240 all their interactions with Kyle Wits and wolves for sure, 1:11:36.439 --> 1:11:39.080 like like they got like a they get trailed by 1:11:39.120 --> 1:11:45.040 canines and have developed ways to elude a canine trailing them. 1:11:45.320 --> 1:11:46.720 It's like a thing you have to know or else 1:11:46.720 --> 1:11:50.400 you're screwed. Um. And so because the snow it was 1:11:50.479 --> 1:11:54.200 like i mean literally you know, crushed aways deep on us, 1:11:55.000 --> 1:11:58.439 the bobcat is specifically made to walk on top of 1:11:58.479 --> 1:12:02.160 that stuff, right with giant pause. These dogs are not. 1:12:02.600 --> 1:12:05.760 And so if that bobcat gets a head start, he 1:12:05.960 --> 1:12:08.600 or she can just take their time, you know, do 1:12:08.800 --> 1:12:11.040 figure eights, climbed trees, do whatever they want to do, 1:12:11.400 --> 1:12:13.519 and the dogs are gonna be post holing and they're 1:12:13.520 --> 1:12:15.479 never gonna catch up to it or put enough pressure 1:12:15.479 --> 1:12:17.320 on it to put it up into a tree. So 1:12:17.720 --> 1:12:20.880 he feels if you put silent dogs in there, when 1:12:20.880 --> 1:12:24.439 the bobcat knows that it's being trailed, it's the dogs 1:12:24.479 --> 1:12:26.799 are seeing it and they can immediately put that pressure 1:12:26.840 --> 1:12:28.840 on it and boom, it goes right into a tree. 1:12:29.080 --> 1:12:31.880 Like there is no you know, there's no real chase 1:12:31.920 --> 1:12:34.920 on the snow. And then you don't like to turn 1:12:34.960 --> 1:12:38.160 out at night, right, but you kind of want to 1:12:38.160 --> 1:12:42.320 get going. You're not allowed to chase at night, or 1:12:42.360 --> 1:12:45.160 you can't chase him, at least on in Montana. You 1:12:45.200 --> 1:12:47.080 have to wait until the same thing. It's like legal 1:12:47.120 --> 1:12:49.360 shooting hours. You can't turn out until half an hour 1:12:49.400 --> 1:12:53.120 before sunrise. Oh, I didn't know that, So that's like, okay, 1:12:53.240 --> 1:12:55.240 I think there was some practical reason. Why is that 1:12:55.680 --> 1:12:59.400 for lions specifically? Yeah, it could be different for bobcats. 1:12:59.439 --> 1:13:04.719 I'd have to check the REGs. But also you can't 1:13:05.720 --> 1:13:08.320 it's not just the shooting, it's the turning out. You 1:13:08.360 --> 1:13:13.759 have to turn out doing legal light. Oh, that explains 1:13:13.760 --> 1:13:19.679 a lot would be a dirty trick. Yeah, and listen, man, 1:13:19.760 --> 1:13:23.240 this bobcat was so special. I've heard from a multiple 1:13:23.560 --> 1:13:27.479 people that have pursued bobcats for you know, half their 1:13:27.520 --> 1:13:32.280 lives that have never gotten a bobcat like this. Like 1:13:32.360 --> 1:13:34.519 Jimmy Miller, who you know as a whole pile of 1:13:34.560 --> 1:13:37.040 bobcat hides in his house, used to trap him a 1:13:37.080 --> 1:13:39.360 lot in Colorado, which produces a lot of what he 1:13:39.400 --> 1:13:42.120 calls Lynx grade cats. He's like, I've never seen one 1:13:42.200 --> 1:13:44.760 like that. He's like, that is a very very very 1:13:44.760 --> 1:13:50.000 special cat. You're talking about it. Yeah, and the size, 1:13:50.360 --> 1:13:53.040 but you have to have like a belly that goes 1:13:53.120 --> 1:13:55.479 like almost up onto its size and the spots go 1:13:55.680 --> 1:14:00.719 like down the insides of its legs. Um, i'd cats, 1:14:01.080 --> 1:14:03.479 good cats. I've been looking at the stuff. Good cats 1:14:03.479 --> 1:14:05.719 are still getting over Some good cats are still getting 1:14:05.720 --> 1:14:08.880 over a thousand bucks this year. What are you gonna 1:14:08.880 --> 1:14:11.200 do with that thing? I'm gonna make it into a 1:14:11.920 --> 1:14:15.320 John Hayes tax during me soft pillow? No nice? Oh yeah, 1:14:15.360 --> 1:14:17.639 that'll be cool. No, I want I've never done any 1:14:17.680 --> 1:14:19.360 tax for me. This will be my first one ever, 1:14:19.520 --> 1:14:24.040 and I want something that is very uh approachable and 1:14:24.120 --> 1:14:26.960 like can be handled. You know, I don't know if 1:14:26.960 --> 1:14:29.240 anybody's going to actually take a nap on it and 1:14:29.360 --> 1:14:33.040 use it as Yeah I might, but like I wanted 1:14:33.160 --> 1:14:35.559 when kids come over, I wanted to be like, I'm 1:14:35.600 --> 1:14:38.040 not worried about it getting messed up. Like if in 1:14:38.080 --> 1:14:41.080 ten years it's like warn ragged from kids and people 1:14:41.120 --> 1:14:44.000 handling it, I'll consider it a win and I'll, you know, 1:14:44.080 --> 1:14:47.360 go make another one. Right. I'm a little jealous that. 1:14:47.439 --> 1:14:49.040 I mean to be totally honestly, I'm a little jealous 1:14:49.080 --> 1:14:52.000 that Bobcat. What would you do with it? He had 1:14:52.040 --> 1:14:56.120 it wall hanger tanying it and just put up the 1:14:56.200 --> 1:14:59.120 hide trapper style. What about mingus? He's gonna be around 1:14:59.120 --> 1:15:04.920 that thing? Yeah don't. Dogs don't care. Dogs don't. I 1:15:05.040 --> 1:15:08.519 found that dogs don't like chewt that like our dog 1:15:08.560 --> 1:15:10.559 likes everything, but it doesn't like chewing tan hides. I 1:15:10.560 --> 1:15:13.880 think it just smells like chemical. That's exact opposite. Like 1:15:13.920 --> 1:15:16.360 he's obsessed with this access deer hide in my house. 1:15:16.360 --> 1:15:17.960 Like we just basically had to give it to him. Yeah, 1:15:18.400 --> 1:15:20.960 just keep taking it, like dragging it to his spot 1:15:21.520 --> 1:15:23.280 like our dog. Won't you look at it? Man, you'd 1:15:23.360 --> 1:15:25.800 rather chew rags out in the garage. Yeah. Like I 1:15:25.800 --> 1:15:27.679 literally was like, well, I guess I gotta get another 1:15:27.720 --> 1:15:31.559 access deer hides. Yeah, We've got a coon hide and 1:15:31.680 --> 1:15:33.720 like a couple of coyotes and a fox and he's 1:15:33.760 --> 1:15:37.120 never touched those, so I'm sure when we first bring 1:15:37.160 --> 1:15:39.280 it in and that thing looks pretty real like a's 1:15:39.280 --> 1:15:43.280 staring at him, he's probably gonna have a little reaction. Okay, 1:15:43.360 --> 1:15:48.000 let's get into this Neil guy deal. Okay, now, hundred 1:15:48.240 --> 1:15:54.080 guy one time you were there, ye uh, the whole 1:15:54.120 --> 1:15:56.280 conversation around. We should first off, do you want to 1:15:56.280 --> 1:15:58.160 do like a little Yannie book report about what Neil 1:15:58.200 --> 1:16:10.280 guy are the honest eagle on the case we ken? Yeah, 1:16:10.320 --> 1:16:13.760 if you think that would be good. Real quick, real 1:16:13.840 --> 1:16:26.120 quick introduction. Nil Ah, it's a uh antelope species. It's 1:16:26.200 --> 1:16:29.759 best known for coming from India, although they it's found 1:16:29.760 --> 1:16:32.599 all over like the southern part of the Asian continent. 1:16:33.920 --> 1:16:38.240 Ah a little bit of fame in that there's like 1:16:38.320 --> 1:16:41.120 more of them in Texas now than there is in 1:16:41.120 --> 1:16:49.799 India probably depending on you know, sex and maturity, anywhere 1:16:49.800 --> 1:16:52.639 from three hundred I mean obviously calves can be little, 1:16:52.640 --> 1:16:56.639 but adults probably three hundred to five fifty, maybe six 1:16:56.720 --> 1:16:59.679 hundred on a on a really big mature bowl. Uh. 1:16:59.720 --> 1:17:02.120 There's stories of a thousand pound nil guy and just 1:17:02.200 --> 1:17:04.839 like there are a thousand pounds uh, you know bulls 1:17:04.920 --> 1:17:09.840 running around Montana, which I don't think that happens that often. Um, 1:17:09.880 --> 1:17:14.920 but yeah, um known to be very good eating. Uh 1:17:14.960 --> 1:17:18.840 for whatever reason, out of all the exotics in uh Texas, 1:17:19.400 --> 1:17:23.679 it's sort of like sits on on a pedestal above 1:17:23.760 --> 1:17:26.320 the rest, which I don't really understand the same ranch 1:17:26.360 --> 1:17:28.400 that we've been on ranches even say it like down 1:17:28.479 --> 1:17:31.400 here it's like cattle or for selling nil guy for eating. 1:17:31.520 --> 1:17:34.960 And it's because even though they're an antelope quote unquote, 1:17:35.000 --> 1:17:37.600 they're actually like a member of the same there a 1:17:37.680 --> 1:17:40.960 bovine species like cow like cattle are. So it really 1:17:40.960 --> 1:17:43.280 has to do with like the taste preference of especially 1:17:43.320 --> 1:17:46.360 of Americans who like beef, who like cattle flavored animals, 1:17:46.360 --> 1:17:48.760 and so that's why they're so much better. But the 1:17:48.760 --> 1:17:52.280 trophy is very highly sought after. Two for sure, for 1:17:52.840 --> 1:17:55.400 some reason, which is interesting because you know it's not 1:17:55.479 --> 1:17:57.439 you wouldn't. I wouldn't originally think that would be a 1:17:57.520 --> 1:18:01.280 huge trophy for folks, just because of the fact that, yeah, 1:18:01.280 --> 1:18:04.000 it's not like it has big horns on it. And 1:18:04.080 --> 1:18:07.040 right next to it is standing a cemetery tar Orcs 1:18:07.400 --> 1:18:11.559 which four horns on it, all curved and crazy looking, 1:18:11.560 --> 1:18:15.040 and there's something like the euro Mounts Freedom Mounts. Uh 1:18:15.080 --> 1:18:17.559 there's something rather satanic looking about Yeah, for sure. They 1:18:17.560 --> 1:18:20.599 definitely have the devil horn thing going on. For Yeah, 1:18:20.600 --> 1:18:22.679 I can't wait to like a heavy metal album cover 1:18:22.800 --> 1:18:26.120 or something. Man. Uh, we were we covered that. We 1:18:26.120 --> 1:18:29.360 were we covered Niogai really heavy during that crazy ass 1:18:30.000 --> 1:18:37.240 Southern Arctic blast winters ago because they were I mean 1:18:38.439 --> 1:18:41.720 thousands and thousands and thousands froze to death. They just 1:18:41.760 --> 1:18:44.679 can't cope. Yeah, a little freezing weather. Did you see 1:18:44.680 --> 1:18:49.200 any like impacts from that? No? No, I think that 1:18:49.240 --> 1:18:55.000 they're um high fecundity, and uh, either they bounced back 1:18:55.080 --> 1:18:57.400 or they just weren't that that big of a die off. 1:18:57.880 --> 1:19:01.280 They also felt that because they have um low fence 1:19:01.439 --> 1:19:03.720 on three sides of that ranch that any animals that 1:19:03.800 --> 1:19:07.080 wanted to leave could leave and maybe did and then 1:19:07.160 --> 1:19:10.639 came back. Um, they've had that happen with other species 1:19:10.680 --> 1:19:14.240 to when there's been weather events or like smoke or 1:19:14.280 --> 1:19:19.920 something that they feel like animals just like leaving the black. Um. 1:19:19.960 --> 1:19:22.920 So when we that was a good little intro when 1:19:22.920 --> 1:19:26.519 we hunted him. There's a lot about Uh, there's a 1:19:26.520 --> 1:19:31.320 lot about they can really take a hit. Um, you 1:19:31.400 --> 1:19:34.400 gotta be very careful to try to drop them. Once 1:19:34.439 --> 1:19:37.040 they get in the in the brush, you're gonna lose them. 1:19:37.640 --> 1:19:44.320 They don't bleed their hearts in a weird place for 1:19:44.439 --> 1:19:48.040 a lot of that. Yeah, you're gonna lose him. You 1:19:48.080 --> 1:19:50.920 don't do everything exactly right if you go online. And 1:19:51.400 --> 1:19:54.040 that was one of the reasons we went to hunt 1:19:54.240 --> 1:19:57.000 them on this particular trip was that it's kind of 1:19:57.040 --> 1:20:01.200 known as the toughest animal in the lower forty eight 1:20:01.479 --> 1:20:05.439 to take down. Super tough hide soaks up the lead. 1:20:06.080 --> 1:20:07.439 Like if you don't kill him out in the open, 1:20:07.439 --> 1:20:09.200 they run into the brush, you're never gonna find him. 1:20:09.280 --> 1:20:15.439 He's got like quick clot flowing through his veins totally. Um. 1:20:15.479 --> 1:20:18.080 And so yeah, in this episode that I went down 1:20:18.080 --> 1:20:21.000 there to shoot, I did with a fella by name 1:20:21.040 --> 1:20:23.880 of Troy Fowler. You can find him on YouTube and 1:20:23.960 --> 1:20:30.439 Instagram as the Ranch Ferry. What does that mean? The rain? Right? Yeah? 1:20:30.560 --> 1:20:33.599 I I told him multiple times. I said, buddy, it's 1:20:33.720 --> 1:20:36.280 ballsy to like and and and that's a nickname that 1:20:36.320 --> 1:20:39.479 he gave himself. To give yourself a nickname that has 1:20:39.560 --> 1:20:45.360 ferry included. You know, um, didn't we have this conversation. Yeah, 1:20:45.720 --> 1:20:49.280 we're no strangers to double on tondres. You're going to 1:20:49.320 --> 1:20:52.360 explain that to me? Well, people are good? Do you 1:20:52.360 --> 1:20:57.400 get call it me an eater? Right? No, explain double atendra? 1:20:58.200 --> 1:21:00.600 Oh me saying something like, I'm trying to think of 1:21:00.600 --> 1:21:06.640 a good double entendre. Um. Uh do you think it? 1:21:06.720 --> 1:21:08.920 One feels good at this kind of stuff? It has 1:21:09.000 --> 1:21:13.360 double meaning. It has double meaning so often in a 1:21:13.439 --> 1:21:16.600 sexy way, and one of the meeting one of the 1:21:16.640 --> 1:21:21.720 meetings meanings is usually a little risque or yeah, sexy, right, 1:21:21.840 --> 1:21:25.519 So Ranch Ferry. You could be like it's a person 1:21:25.560 --> 1:21:29.200 that brings magical gifts to ranches, or you could be 1:21:29.479 --> 1:21:34.840 that it's a derogatory term of like a derogatory term 1:21:34.920 --> 1:21:40.639 for someone of a particular persuasion who's residing at a ranch. Uh. 1:21:41.120 --> 1:21:45.000 He is neither of those. Um, so it's a triple. 1:21:46.320 --> 1:21:49.280 He came up with a ranch faery kind of like 1:21:49.400 --> 1:21:53.800 at home sometimes range ranche. Then I started thinking it 1:21:53.840 --> 1:21:57.639 was range, which made more sense. But go on his family. 1:21:59.640 --> 1:22:02.080 I think actually he married into it and married into 1:22:02.120 --> 1:22:04.639 a big family that owns I can't remember how big 1:22:04.640 --> 1:22:06.760 the ranches, but they own a own a small ranch 1:22:06.800 --> 1:22:12.439 in Texas, and um, they're kind of like at your 1:22:12.439 --> 1:22:16.439 house sometimes where where the kids might be like, wow, 1:22:16.520 --> 1:22:19.559 the house is always clean. I didn't clean it. How 1:22:19.600 --> 1:22:21.519 does it? How does it stay clean? You're like, well, 1:22:21.520 --> 1:22:23.639 when you go to bed, he little ship, I stay 1:22:23.760 --> 1:22:25.840 up and do all the dishes and clean, run around 1:22:25.840 --> 1:22:28.160 for thirty minutes yourself in the ranch ferry or the 1:22:28.200 --> 1:22:30.800 house faery cleans it all up. So he sort of 1:22:30.840 --> 1:22:33.799 has assumed the role on that ranch as when everybody 1:22:33.800 --> 1:22:36.360 else leaves and the good times are over, but the 1:22:36.479 --> 1:22:40.000 a t V is not running anymore and the one 1:22:40.040 --> 1:22:44.840 blind got knocked over by the windstorm and the pipes froze. 1:22:45.680 --> 1:22:48.519 He fixes everything, the unseen person taking care of every 1:22:48.720 --> 1:22:53.280 I would never guess that. So yeah, when you come back, 1:22:53.479 --> 1:22:57.000 everything's fixed. Who did it? The ranch ferry I'm gonna 1:22:57.000 --> 1:23:03.800 start being the shack ferry or not me. I'm gonna 1:23:03.840 --> 1:23:05.840 find one. You need to find one. It's gonna say. 1:23:05.840 --> 1:23:07.400 If you're gonna do that, why don't you stop him? 1:23:07.400 --> 1:23:13.440 Mind that very shock freaking take care of too. Exactly 1:23:13.600 --> 1:23:21.400 exactly so, uh he volunteers with UM the Ashby Foundation. 1:23:22.720 --> 1:23:25.599 We had on the podcast a while back at Ashby 1:23:25.600 --> 1:23:30.160 and we talked all about you know, his Uh, I 1:23:30.240 --> 1:23:34.160 get the connection though about his you know principles of 1:23:34.200 --> 1:23:39.360 what makes the best most efficient killing arrow and broadhead. 1:23:39.640 --> 1:23:41.719 It might not be the most fun arrow to shoot 1:23:41.720 --> 1:23:47.200 on league night. Nope, that's right because they're heavy, UM 1:23:47.240 --> 1:23:51.120 and they have you know, two bladed broadheads which sometimes 1:23:51.200 --> 1:23:54.200 tend to plane in the air more than uh, you know, 1:23:54.280 --> 1:23:57.559 maybe a smaller broadhead and whatever. So layout really like 1:23:57.960 --> 1:24:01.080 just leave the neo gut thing for a minute. Sure, Layout, 1:24:01.120 --> 1:24:05.839 the UM just do not not a recap at Ashby, 1:24:05.880 --> 1:24:10.160 but that that episode, but layout sort of the emerging 1:24:10.280 --> 1:24:15.679 conflict like everything got light, like everything got light and fast, 1:24:16.360 --> 1:24:21.240 and it was celebrated like how fast, how flat? Yeah, 1:24:21.360 --> 1:24:26.040 probably in like the early two thousand's UM, I believe 1:24:26.080 --> 1:24:29.479 it was like graphite. Actually it was before carbon like, 1:24:30.360 --> 1:24:32.840 and I saw it as a hunting guide. It was 1:24:32.880 --> 1:24:35.160 a heavy illumina arrows, but nobody thought they were heavy 1:24:35.160 --> 1:24:37.760 illuminate arrows. They were just alumina ary, that's what they were. 1:24:38.280 --> 1:24:41.760 And it was either that or would arrows well, graphite 1:24:41.760 --> 1:24:44.759 shows up and all of a sudden people started getting 1:24:45.000 --> 1:24:48.000 very high speeds of arrows. I remember being as like 1:24:48.040 --> 1:24:50.559 a hunting guide. We would shoot a lot mid mid 1:24:50.680 --> 1:24:53.080 day when we're not in the woods, and all of 1:24:53.120 --> 1:24:55.240 a sudden, guys started showing up with rigs where when 1:24:55.240 --> 1:24:57.639 they shot, you didn't even see the arrow and flight. 1:24:58.000 --> 1:24:59.920 It would just be like and then the arrowould be 1:24:59.920 --> 1:25:05.080 a peer and the targets like holy shit, you know. Well, um, 1:25:05.520 --> 1:25:10.160 those also came around, came along with like really light broadheads. Um. 1:25:10.640 --> 1:25:13.519 And even though they were super flat shooting and like 1:25:13.640 --> 1:25:16.439 your pin gaps were super tight and you could you know, 1:25:17.040 --> 1:25:20.720 they just don't have a lot of trajectory. Um. We 1:25:20.800 --> 1:25:24.400 immediately saw it on Elk where we were getting poor penetration, 1:25:24.800 --> 1:25:27.160 and for a long time we actually figured that we 1:25:27.280 --> 1:25:30.120 just had bad hunters. We just were like these guys 1:25:30.120 --> 1:25:31.880 like aren't practicing enough, They're not hitting him in the 1:25:31.960 --> 1:25:34.760 right spots and we never really thought we never really 1:25:34.800 --> 1:25:37.719 put it on the the equipment, you know. But uh, 1:25:37.880 --> 1:25:42.799 like I can vividly remember more like a half dozen 1:25:43.120 --> 1:25:46.080 elk that were shot in the shoulder and you'd get 1:25:46.120 --> 1:25:49.240 like three or four or five inches of penetration and 1:25:49.280 --> 1:25:50.880 you see him run off in the arrow would fall 1:25:50.880 --> 1:25:57.320 out and you wouldn't even bothers. I like, shot elk 1:25:57.520 --> 1:25:59.519 hit the shoulder one time and as it ran off, 1:25:59.560 --> 1:26:03.439 the air was flopping and it was just like like 1:26:03.840 --> 1:26:07.200 slightly lodged into the muscle. You know, it's probably like 1:26:07.200 --> 1:26:09.040 a hundred things I did wrong, but yeah, I remember 1:26:09.080 --> 1:26:11.160 that it was like a thing like damn, yeah, you 1:26:11.200 --> 1:26:13.760 think it would well? And even I think that you 1:26:13.840 --> 1:26:17.120 were trying to think were you shooting those full metal 1:26:17.200 --> 1:26:20.519 jackets I got for you on that Blue Mountain hunt 1:26:20.520 --> 1:26:23.360 that we did in Washington. You were so you had 1:26:23.360 --> 1:26:26.080 a fairly heavier arrow. I don't know what it was 1:26:26.479 --> 1:26:29.800 at the time. Um probably didn't have his high of 1:26:29.960 --> 1:26:31.960 foc Maybe it's like if I had to build you 1:26:32.000 --> 1:26:33.960 an arrow now. And again I don't know what broad 1:26:34.040 --> 1:26:36.840 haad you had, but like that bowl didn't go the 1:26:36.960 --> 1:26:42.160 G five Montechi Montech that arrow only went probably halfway 1:26:42.200 --> 1:26:44.320 into that animal. Right in the video you could see 1:26:44.320 --> 1:26:49.120 half an arrow kind of hanging out. Um. Anyway, So yeah, 1:26:49.160 --> 1:26:52.400 we've had this thing where everybody went super fast, super 1:26:52.479 --> 1:26:56.320 light and would brag about speeds. Yes, exactly, And a 1:26:56.360 --> 1:26:58.559 lot of people liked it for white tail hunting because 1:26:58.560 --> 1:27:00.400 they figured it's a way to get around on the 1:27:00.439 --> 1:27:05.120 white tail um ducking or reacting to the sound of 1:27:05.160 --> 1:27:07.960 the string. Which I'll tell you funny story about that 1:27:08.520 --> 1:27:10.200 can I don't want to you don't want to name 1:27:10.280 --> 1:27:14.559 names here, but someone was a friend of mine was 1:27:14.600 --> 1:27:21.160 not in this room, no no, no building. He was 1:27:21.160 --> 1:27:23.840 out with a rancher and the ranchers showing him around 1:27:23.920 --> 1:27:28.080 his place for deer hunting, and he's like talking about 1:27:28.680 --> 1:27:33.439 having a famous bow hunter. Um. I recently heard this 1:27:33.439 --> 1:27:35.519 story too. And the bow hunter missed the deer and 1:27:35.520 --> 1:27:37.280 he's like, oh, you jumped the string. He jumped the string, 1:27:37.400 --> 1:27:40.160 you know, And and the rancher very nonchalantly goes, but 1:27:40.400 --> 1:27:47.240 we watched the tape. He just shot under it. Um. Yeah. 1:27:47.400 --> 1:27:49.960 That's another thing that people are trying to talk about 1:27:49.960 --> 1:27:52.479 now too, is that people for a long time have 1:27:52.520 --> 1:27:54.759 thought that it's always a sound of the bow going 1:27:54.880 --> 1:27:58.439 off at the animals reacting to um. But I recently 1:27:58.479 --> 1:28:01.040 heard a story about a guy was in Africa and 1:28:01.080 --> 1:28:04.360 when he'd have animals coming into the water hole that 1:28:04.439 --> 1:28:07.559 he didn't want to shoot opposite the water hole. He 1:28:07.640 --> 1:28:09.800 was in a blind right, so he's got a water 1:28:09.800 --> 1:28:11.479 hole on one side, but he's got windows on both 1:28:11.520 --> 1:28:14.360 sides blind and opposite the water hole. He had a 1:28:14.360 --> 1:28:18.200 target because he wanted to test this, and so he 1:28:18.240 --> 1:28:20.280 would when an animal be sitting there at the water 1:28:20.320 --> 1:28:22.400 hole twenty yards away drinking, he would draw his bow 1:28:22.600 --> 1:28:27.720 and shoot the target. Zero reaction from these animals head 1:28:27.760 --> 1:28:30.120 down to stay in the water, kept drinking. So there's 1:28:30.160 --> 1:28:31.879 some people that are starting to think that it's actually 1:28:31.920 --> 1:28:34.680 the sound of the arrow coming towards that animal that 1:28:34.760 --> 1:28:36.760 makes him react. And it's not just the pop of 1:28:36.840 --> 1:28:39.200 the you know the cams in the spring when people 1:28:39.240 --> 1:28:42.080 say jump, that's just so folks listening whatnot, No, we're 1:28:42.120 --> 1:28:44.000 talking about and people say jumped the string there, it's 1:28:44.000 --> 1:28:48.080 actually ducking. It's like an animal goes to load up 1:28:48.080 --> 1:28:52.120 to spring. So different than if you're trying to jump 1:28:52.240 --> 1:28:55.360 up and touch a basketball rima. Yeah, you go down 1:28:55.439 --> 1:28:59.920 for up exactly so he knows something's not right enough. 1:29:00.040 --> 1:29:03.240 The word he's gonna get out of town. And in 1:29:03.320 --> 1:29:06.400 the time as he like gets ready to spring and 1:29:06.400 --> 1:29:08.120 you look on that. You know, people know so much 1:29:08.200 --> 1:29:09.920 stuff now because just because you can film stuff and 1:29:09.920 --> 1:29:14.120 watch it, I mean his back, I mean they drop 1:29:14.160 --> 1:29:16.679 a half body length. Yeah, you'll also hear people say 1:29:16.920 --> 1:29:20.280 duck the string like they're intentional. Like he's like, yeah, 1:29:21.640 --> 1:29:24.840 but you watch, you'll you'll watch like if you watch 1:29:24.920 --> 1:29:27.680 the slow motion, his spine winds up down where his 1:29:27.760 --> 1:29:30.479 belly or where his brisket was. Sometimes I say, it 1:29:30.520 --> 1:29:34.559 could be a whole body, you know, vertical with at times. 1:29:35.640 --> 1:29:40.880 Um So anyways, ed Ashby from you get into that 1:29:40.960 --> 1:29:43.240 real quick, he's I don't I don't know. He's not 1:29:43.240 --> 1:29:45.600 necessarily the guy that came up with heavy arrows, but 1:29:45.640 --> 1:29:49.240 he did a bunch of work in Africa and his 1:29:49.320 --> 1:29:51.519 whole What's interesting is the reason he was doing this 1:29:51.600 --> 1:29:53.800 stuff is not that he was out there trying to 1:29:53.840 --> 1:29:57.960 prove that light and and uh fast arrows were bad. 1:29:58.400 --> 1:30:02.680 He was trying to get uh bow hunting legalized in 1:30:03.320 --> 1:30:05.720 the whole continent. Really, there was a few countries that 1:30:05.760 --> 1:30:08.800 allowed bow hunting um just because they didn't have rules 1:30:08.800 --> 1:30:11.040 that said you couldn't bow hunt. But most of the 1:30:11.080 --> 1:30:13.280 countries were like, no, you can't bow hunt. So he 1:30:13.360 --> 1:30:15.320 was like, well, look, I'm gonna go out and study 1:30:15.640 --> 1:30:18.439 and maybe show you guys that it is a lethal 1:30:18.439 --> 1:30:20.519 way to kill an animal. Right, So that was like 1:30:20.680 --> 1:30:23.880 his reasoning behind going and doing what he did. So 1:30:23.920 --> 1:30:26.840 they were saying you can't do it because they felt 1:30:26.880 --> 1:30:29.160 like it would be dangerous for hunters to come there 1:30:29.200 --> 1:30:31.920 and do that, or they just or yeah, maybe it 1:30:31.960 --> 1:30:34.519 wasn't just ethically you know, fair to the animal, just 1:30:34.640 --> 1:30:36.479 wasn't like a good way to bring down an animal. 1:30:36.800 --> 1:30:39.599 You know, there's still countries now where you can't bow 1:30:39.720 --> 1:30:45.080 hunt um. So uh yeah, because sometimes I think he 1:30:45.120 --> 1:30:47.000 gets a bad rap for like he's out there just 1:30:47.040 --> 1:30:50.000 trying to like destroy you know what other people have, 1:30:50.200 --> 1:30:52.280 you know, come up these ideas that he came up 1:30:52.320 --> 1:30:53.720 and he's like, no, I'm I was just trying to 1:30:53.760 --> 1:30:55.760 prove that, like, hey, we could do this with a bow. 1:30:56.360 --> 1:30:59.040 And by the way, the results show that if you 1:30:59.120 --> 1:31:02.519 want to, you know, get maximum penetration, which he believes 1:31:02.600 --> 1:31:05.160 is the best way to kill animals. Here is the 1:31:05.200 --> 1:31:07.479 setup that works best for that, which turns out that 1:31:07.520 --> 1:31:11.559 it's a heavy wait forward arrow um And to get 1:31:11.560 --> 1:31:14.040 weight forward you put on a heavy broadhead and you 1:31:14.080 --> 1:31:16.479 put sometimes even an insert at the tip of your 1:31:16.920 --> 1:31:20.800 arrow two more and drive you know, or pull through 1:31:20.880 --> 1:31:23.160 you know, that arrow through the animal. And for these 1:31:23.400 --> 1:31:27.280 fifty reasons having to do with physics, this is why 1:31:27.360 --> 1:31:31.400 that is. And how heavy Just for a quick like recap, 1:31:31.479 --> 1:31:33.280 like how heavy is heavy? Don't do it? And if 1:31:33.320 --> 1:31:35.040 you do grain, some people the hell that means? No 1:31:35.040 --> 1:31:38.040 one knows what that means. Oh yeah, I don't know 1:31:38.080 --> 1:31:40.640 if I can remember the definition of where grain came from. 1:31:40.720 --> 1:31:42.840 I mean, it's like a it was literally came from 1:31:42.880 --> 1:31:46.720 like the weight of seeds way back. And how many 1:31:46.720 --> 1:31:49.280 grains are in a pound. When it comes to when 1:31:49.320 --> 1:31:53.559 you're saying that you shoot a h grain broadhead, that 1:31:53.840 --> 1:31:59.519 grain is a fraction equates to a fraction of a pound. 1:32:00.640 --> 1:32:04.639 Seven thousand grains in a pound, So seven thousand grains 1:32:04.640 --> 1:32:09.560 in a pound when you're shooting a hundred grain broadhead, 1:32:09.640 --> 1:32:13.840 that's what they're talking about. Yeah, I got a math 1:32:13.920 --> 1:32:18.679 question for you, chatter that's yeah, you're shooting a hundred 1:32:18.680 --> 1:32:24.520 grain broadhead. What percentage of a pound? Is that h 1:32:24.600 --> 1:32:29.960 drop some zero? No? No, this I'm doing a little 1:32:30.000 --> 1:32:36.599 a little yeah, yeah, that hundred grain broadhead be almost 1:32:36.600 --> 1:32:39.280 a couple of ounces or a couple of ounces, right, No, 1:32:39.479 --> 1:32:42.240 this is this conversion chart saying that four hundred grains 1:32:42.240 --> 1:32:47.920 is point nine ounce. Hold on, just pause all this film. 1:32:49.320 --> 1:32:50.799 I've never done that. So I've never done the conversion 1:32:51.840 --> 1:32:56.840 three seven grains and ounce of power different. So the 1:32:56.880 --> 1:33:02.040 Mediator Math podcast is really the show. So just be 1:33:02.160 --> 1:33:05.439 clear here grain. Like when we talk about measuring a broadhead. 1:33:05.960 --> 1:33:09.519 If you go for for people at home that don't 1:33:09.600 --> 1:33:12.040 mess with broadheads, going on buy broadheads, or you start 1:33:12.240 --> 1:33:14.320 go asking me your friends, but hey, what grain broadhead 1:33:14.400 --> 1:33:15.960 did you shoot? A lot of people are gonna be 1:33:16.000 --> 1:33:18.680 like one hundred. They're gonna be like one ten. This 1:33:18.760 --> 1:33:21.559 is changing now, this is going to change in the future. 1:33:21.560 --> 1:33:23.759 It will be much higher numbers. But for the last 1:33:24.160 --> 1:33:26.080 you might be it might might not be. But yeah, 1:33:26.120 --> 1:33:30.280 the common weights were probably Chester can help out here. 1:33:30.360 --> 1:33:33.160 He's he's on the company that does he does little, 1:33:33.200 --> 1:33:36.360 but he does toy bows. No. But when you say 1:33:36.400 --> 1:33:41.040 the most common were were like the three common broadhead 1:33:41.080 --> 1:33:48.559 weights hundreds for for a trad bow. No no, no, no, 1:33:48.640 --> 1:33:51.200 I'm I'm I'm speaking on what I know and what 1:33:51.280 --> 1:33:54.320 people use back in the day before all this technology. 1:33:54.720 --> 1:33:59.759 So I'm like compound bows and I love compound bos. 1:34:00.080 --> 1:34:05.479 But anyways, they were like typically you'd be shooting h 1:34:06.880 --> 1:34:10.840 to like twoin broadheads, like even back in the day 1:34:10.880 --> 1:34:15.400 all those older But that's for trad but like, um, 1:34:15.439 --> 1:34:21.720 but what here's why I'm upset. If you went down 1:34:21.720 --> 1:34:24.160 to Walmart right now and they had one broadhead on 1:34:24.200 --> 1:34:26.960 the shelf, it's gonna be a hundred grain broadhead and 1:34:27.880 --> 1:34:31.360 there's a lot of it'll be those two for sure. Okay, 1:34:31.600 --> 1:34:33.680 that's what I'm saying. I'm just trying to establish the 1:34:33.680 --> 1:34:38.440 hell of grain is what that means. What that means 1:34:39.240 --> 1:34:41.759 is what you're like, what is that unit of measurement 1:34:41.880 --> 1:34:45.599 that is a very arcane unit of measurement that has 1:34:45.640 --> 1:34:49.200 to do with like grain, like cereal grains, I believe, 1:34:49.800 --> 1:34:55.800 and it is one seven thousand of a pound is 1:34:55.800 --> 1:35:02.320 a grain, meaning you would have to buy seventy one 1:35:02.800 --> 1:35:06.360 grain broadheads and put them in a pile if you 1:35:06.439 --> 1:35:09.439 wanted to balance it on a scale with a pound 1:35:09.520 --> 1:35:17.640 of elk. Burger that's correct, that's okay. So, yeah, the 1:35:17.680 --> 1:35:25.400 most common for probably compound shooters and and but now 1:35:25.560 --> 1:35:29.400 you're seeing a lot of people starting to shoot heavier setups. 1:35:29.479 --> 1:35:33.599 The reason it's a little contentious, controversial, whatever you want 1:35:33.600 --> 1:35:38.439 to say, is that, yeah, is that as it gets heavier, 1:35:39.000 --> 1:35:43.440 you get more trajectory out of your arrow. It becomes slower, 1:35:44.200 --> 1:35:47.799 and so you know, it falls out of the sky faster. 1:35:47.920 --> 1:35:53.000 It's not as flat shooting. Um. And you know, people 1:35:53.400 --> 1:35:55.320 for the last twenty years twenty years have been very 1:35:55.320 --> 1:35:59.360 accustomed to shooting fast things that shoot flat, and so 1:35:59.439 --> 1:36:02.439 it's hard go the other direction, even if there's a 1:36:02.479 --> 1:36:04.719 bunch of stuff telling you that it's gonna work better. 1:36:04.840 --> 1:36:07.600 It's fair to say this kind of mimics like the 1:36:07.680 --> 1:36:11.400 same thing you'll see in rifle shooting arguments, right, like 1:36:11.920 --> 1:36:16.599 super fast, flat shooting little light bullets versus great, big, 1:36:16.640 --> 1:36:19.439 heavy ones that shoot like a rainbow. Rick Cutton put 1:36:19.439 --> 1:36:22.679 it to me the other day. He thinks that it um. 1:36:22.800 --> 1:36:26.840 He likes to read articles about this stuff a lot. Uh. 1:36:27.120 --> 1:36:29.960 He's like, all that like super fast bullet stuff is 1:36:30.000 --> 1:36:33.080 all kind of like pre range finder mm hmm. That 1:36:33.200 --> 1:36:35.000 you'd have a gun that you could be like point 1:36:35.000 --> 1:36:39.200 of aims. Yeah, and scopes that you can dial into 1:36:39.320 --> 1:36:42.680 it with. He's like not with the range. Fun it 1:36:42.680 --> 1:36:45.280 doesn't matter anymore. You just you can shoot a heavy 1:36:45.320 --> 1:36:48.920 bullet and you just know what it's gonna do. And 1:36:49.120 --> 1:36:50.720 the whole thing about like I can aim at it 1:36:50.760 --> 1:36:53.439 no matter what. He's like, Okay, yeah, but it's looking 1:36:53.439 --> 1:36:56.160 how far away it is. I know exactly what's gonna happen, 1:36:57.000 --> 1:37:00.439 and and I don't need like the super light flat bullet. 1:37:00.520 --> 1:37:03.000 You shoot a big heavy bullet because you was gonna 1:37:03.000 --> 1:37:05.400 go anyway, which I'm all about, like shooting a big 1:37:05.439 --> 1:37:11.479 heavy for better, you know. But the idea that you 1:37:11.479 --> 1:37:14.280 can't kill a nil guy with a arrow that isn't 1:37:14.280 --> 1:37:18.720 sixty grains in total weight isn't true. I know for 1:37:18.720 --> 1:37:20.200 a fact it isn't true, because I've killed one with 1:37:20.200 --> 1:37:24.240 a small sure, But you can kill an ELK three 1:37:22.960 --> 1:37:28.479 to my bare hands. Right now. We're talking all right, 1:37:31.520 --> 1:37:33.880 episode of trivia for that to happen. But I don't know, 1:37:33.960 --> 1:37:36.000 I don't know where the baseline as far as like 1:37:36.040 --> 1:37:39.000 anything below this, Like when you with rifle calibers, it's 1:37:39.000 --> 1:37:41.080 it's almost easier to know, like Okay, we're now in 1:37:41.120 --> 1:37:43.920 the range of unethical maybe like when well, I don't 1:37:43.920 --> 1:37:45.760 know what I was doing. This whole setup was led 1:37:45.760 --> 1:37:47.559 into this whole thing. I was trying to say that 1:37:47.600 --> 1:37:51.760 in my one experience with nil guy, um, and I 1:37:51.840 --> 1:37:54.759 was with we were with a guy. Um, the guide's 1:37:54.840 --> 1:37:58.920 nil guy hunts. He was very I don't want to 1:37:58.920 --> 1:38:02.720 say fixated. His thing was they just get away. They 1:38:02.760 --> 1:38:07.519 get away if everything doesn't happen perfectly. And um, he 1:38:07.600 --> 1:38:13.800 wanted big rifles, heavy bullets, close shots, careful shot placement. 1:38:14.280 --> 1:38:17.200 Drop it, don't let it get in the brush. They 1:38:17.240 --> 1:38:21.920 just vanish, the same thing you'd see in Africa. Well, 1:38:21.920 --> 1:38:23.960 it's no, I mean you can You're not gonna meet 1:38:23.960 --> 1:38:27.840 an elk guy that wants something different sure than that? 1:38:28.040 --> 1:38:33.080 You know. Um, what Troy Austin talks about is I 1:38:33.120 --> 1:38:36.360 forgot about can your can you're set up handle what 1:38:36.400 --> 1:38:39.680 he calls like plan B when the animal reacts to 1:38:39.720 --> 1:38:42.680 the string when because the human element is introduced. And 1:38:42.720 --> 1:38:46.559 no matter how good this technology gets, the asshole shooting 1:38:46.560 --> 1:38:49.040 the boat is still the same, right, and maybe he's 1:38:49.040 --> 1:38:52.680 not gotten smarter and not gotten better. Uh, and you 1:38:52.720 --> 1:38:55.280 shoot too far forward and you shoot too far back? Right? 1:38:55.600 --> 1:38:58.920 What happens? Then? Does your super light set up that? Sure? 1:38:59.000 --> 1:39:02.559 Like with the perfect st everything always dies like right there, 1:39:02.560 --> 1:39:04.760 they just run off and die, no big deal. But 1:39:04.880 --> 1:39:07.840 when it's not perfect, what happens? Right? And that's the 1:39:07.880 --> 1:39:10.880 same case for why people say use enough gun is 1:39:10.920 --> 1:39:15.240 because stuff happens, and if you don't right exactly right, 1:39:15.320 --> 1:39:18.960 that bigger caliber is probably gonna, you know, be on 1:39:19.000 --> 1:39:21.240 your side at that point. My neighbor in Alaska staws 1:39:21.320 --> 1:39:25.439 hunt deer of the small caliber rifle, Like why do 1:39:25.479 --> 1:39:27.640 you they goes him in the brain? You know, I 1:39:27.640 --> 1:39:29.320 shoot another if you don't hit in the brain, I 1:39:29.400 --> 1:39:36.479 just do this. Yeah. Yeah. A good way of thinking 1:39:36.479 --> 1:39:39.160 about like that arrow bullet thing is like for people 1:39:39.160 --> 1:39:44.559 that may not know any of this stuff, is just 1:39:44.640 --> 1:39:48.880 like thinking about me taking a brick and chucking it 1:39:48.960 --> 1:39:52.920 as hard as I can, Hey, Yanni's head, got it? 1:39:53.800 --> 1:39:57.000 Or grabbing a baseball and chucking in as hard as 1:39:57.000 --> 1:40:00.759 I can at Yanni's head, Like what's gonna do more damage? 1:40:00.960 --> 1:40:03.680 You know? And it's going to be that brick even 1:40:03.720 --> 1:40:08.400 though it's going to be going quite a bit. Sorry, Johnny, 1:40:09.640 --> 1:40:14.680 someone's gotta take it. Listen, it's experimentation. Yeah, so you're 1:40:14.680 --> 1:40:17.519 a believer in that system. Well, yeah, yeah, and I 1:40:17.560 --> 1:40:20.360 was a believer. I've been reading Ashley stuff off and 1:40:20.400 --> 1:40:22.280 on because he wrote a lot of stuff in Traditional 1:40:22.280 --> 1:40:25.960 bowl Hunter, which I used to be a traditional bowl hunter, um. 1:40:26.040 --> 1:40:29.240 And so I've been a believer of heavy arrows and 1:40:29.280 --> 1:40:31.639 those kind of broadheads for a long time. And I've 1:40:31.680 --> 1:40:35.240 known of them, um even before I met Troy or 1:40:35.280 --> 1:40:37.080 we did the podcast with Ed. You know, I was 1:40:37.120 --> 1:40:40.280 shooting like a five and thirty five grain set up, 1:40:40.479 --> 1:40:43.200 you know, but I didn't have that the high foc 1:40:43.760 --> 1:40:47.760 and real quickly FOC stands for forward of center. It's 1:40:47.800 --> 1:40:50.360 basically like where you're gonna if you're just gonna balance 1:40:50.479 --> 1:40:53.599 like on your finger, your arrow, if everything is equal, 1:40:53.640 --> 1:40:56.000 it will balance exactly in the middle. But the more 1:40:56.040 --> 1:40:58.720 way you put up front, the shorter you know, the 1:40:58.760 --> 1:41:00.800 distance from your finger to the front of the arrow 1:41:00.880 --> 1:41:03.080 is going to become right that we can get it balanced. 1:41:03.120 --> 1:41:05.120 So the more way you can get up front helps 1:41:05.120 --> 1:41:09.040 in penetration. And there's always just like dubious physics involved 1:41:09.040 --> 1:41:11.880 in these discussions where if it's heavier in the back, 1:41:12.000 --> 1:41:14.960 it pushes the arrow in or you know, I mean, 1:41:15.000 --> 1:41:21.120 like people say stuff that contradicts itself, and that's why 1:41:21.120 --> 1:41:24.800 I'm an argument and that's why I like, listen, Yeah, 1:41:24.840 --> 1:41:27.040 there's we're gonna learn a lot. We don't know everything 1:41:27.080 --> 1:41:29.040 at this point. There's a lot to be learned out there. 1:41:29.360 --> 1:41:31.840 I'm happy that the Ashley Depth Foundation and people like 1:41:31.880 --> 1:41:35.599 Troy are taking their own free time and at least 1:41:35.680 --> 1:41:39.120 trying to do some research and and trying to figure 1:41:39.120 --> 1:41:41.800 it out, you know, because otherwise we're just working off 1:41:41.840 --> 1:41:44.479 of what you know, the latest hunting host tells you 1:41:44.520 --> 1:41:47.519 what's great and what you saw on TV, or you know, listen, 1:41:47.760 --> 1:41:54.439 let me tell you something. Those guys, right, because all 1:41:54.439 --> 1:41:55.800 of us in this I mean, I don't know how 1:41:55.800 --> 1:41:57.800 many animals you've killed the ball, but for me it's 1:41:57.800 --> 1:42:00.599 been it's less than ten, um, you know, so I'm 1:42:00.640 --> 1:42:05.120 working off limited personal experience. I've seen maybe another thirty 1:42:05.200 --> 1:42:08.120 or forty, you know, because of of guiding archery hunters 1:42:08.120 --> 1:42:11.080 over the years. Um. But anyways, I'm just happy that 1:42:11.120 --> 1:42:13.519 they're at least trying to figure it out. So anyways, 1:42:13.600 --> 1:42:16.840 I shot my nil guy, yeah, with a sift grain 1:42:17.000 --> 1:42:22.400 arrow with this two hundred grain single bevel head and um, 1:42:22.439 --> 1:42:24.200 I think if you want to know more about some 1:42:24.280 --> 1:42:28.200 of this, uh you know technical arrow jargon that we're 1:42:28.200 --> 1:42:30.800 going over here, going and listen to that podcast. So 1:42:30.880 --> 1:42:32.879 if you want to check out what you samos episode 1:42:32.880 --> 1:42:35.400 to eighty four and it was called the Archer's Paradox. 1:42:44.800 --> 1:42:46.720 So do we cover off on why and the arrow 1:42:46.800 --> 1:42:48.640 is enough for you? Because I'd like to talk a 1:42:48.680 --> 1:42:51.599 little bit about the haunting the nil guy themselves, because 1:42:54.439 --> 1:42:57.320 you know when we went down there, your hunt lasted 1:42:57.360 --> 1:43:00.559 a total of two hours, maybe been a lot short, 1:43:00.640 --> 1:43:07.080 could have been shorter, because, uh, getting within a couple 1:43:07.200 --> 1:43:12.880 hundred yards of them is not an issue. Though they 1:43:12.920 --> 1:43:17.880 are generally aware of your presence, but with a rifle 1:43:18.040 --> 1:43:21.760 them being aware of your presence doesn't matter that much, right, 1:43:21.960 --> 1:43:26.000 I mean, it doesn't matter at all. Well, do you 1:43:26.000 --> 1:43:30.360 remember exactly like when we were there, was it December December? 1:43:31.200 --> 1:43:34.000 There was like some some there were there was some 1:43:34.080 --> 1:43:36.759 grab bass going on. So it's definitely like pre rut 1:43:36.880 --> 1:43:41.920 cold mornings, some grab bass. Uh, getting within some distance 1:43:41.920 --> 1:43:45.800 of them was not hard and they would a little 1:43:45.800 --> 1:43:48.720 bit throw caution to the wind, and when they saw 1:43:48.760 --> 1:43:51.040 a movement, they would want to come kind to see 1:43:51.080 --> 1:43:54.120 what it was, but keeping their distance. I shot one 1:43:54.120 --> 1:43:58.800 from a hundred yards. Yeah. We went just after Valentine's Day, 1:43:58.880 --> 1:44:02.000 middle of February, which is known as usually their peak rut. 1:44:02.600 --> 1:44:05.360 Jesse Griffiths told me the locals down there call them 1:44:05.800 --> 1:44:13.200 Valentine because they run around Valentine's Day. Yeah. Um, so 1:44:13.240 --> 1:44:14.880 I think I learned that and forgot it. I like 1:44:14.960 --> 1:44:18.360 that little detail. We uh, we're hoping for the rut. 1:44:18.880 --> 1:44:25.280 Zero rut activity the first four days and extreme, like 1:44:25.520 --> 1:44:27.760 I was cut to the chase. I've never hunted a 1:44:27.800 --> 1:44:33.439 more skittish animal, Like unbelievable. We were getting busted at 1:44:33.560 --> 1:44:38.240 sometimes to three hundred yards and like they would eyeball us, 1:44:38.680 --> 1:44:41.559 and like it didn't take long until they were walking away, 1:44:41.800 --> 1:44:44.840 And would is it because you thought it'd be gravy? 1:44:45.680 --> 1:44:47.439 Certainly a little bit of that, but I mean that 1:44:47.479 --> 1:44:50.200 only Look, there's enough game more skittish than a pressured 1:44:50.240 --> 1:44:54.320 white tail. There's enough game on this ranch that you 1:44:54.360 --> 1:44:58.080 get a lot of opportunities, right, So it didn't take 1:44:58.160 --> 1:45:01.120 long for like think walking into it, think it's gonna 1:45:01.120 --> 1:45:03.240 be gravy, for that idea to get blown out of 1:45:03.240 --> 1:45:05.800 my brain and go, Okay, you better rethink of how 1:45:05.840 --> 1:45:08.080 you're gonna get this done. And your idea was you 1:45:08.080 --> 1:45:10.559 were going to spot and stuck, like sneak in for sure, 1:45:10.960 --> 1:45:14.400 because that's what like doing and doing research for the hunt. 1:45:14.479 --> 1:45:18.080 It was spot and stock them sit over water, sit 1:45:18.200 --> 1:45:21.000 a fence crossing because I didn't know this, but they 1:45:21.000 --> 1:45:23.560 don't jump fences. They go under them and bust a 1:45:23.600 --> 1:45:26.680 lot of fences which they trap um or they'll go 1:45:26.760 --> 1:45:29.479 through gates that are open. And then some people have 1:45:29.560 --> 1:45:32.519 had luck actually sitting over dung pile. That's what That's 1:45:32.560 --> 1:45:36.519 all I've ever done. Yeah with your bowl. Okay, yeah 1:45:36.520 --> 1:45:39.280 they have. They have a lot of fidelity to their 1:45:39.280 --> 1:45:41.040 little ship. In spots were kind of like if you 1:45:41.080 --> 1:45:42.760 can find a big one, like it's always been sort 1:45:42.760 --> 1:45:44.640 of accidental. It's like I didn't set out on a 1:45:44.720 --> 1:45:46.479 nail guy hunt. We were doing something else. We weren't 1:45:46.479 --> 1:45:48.679 having great luck. We came up on like a big 1:45:49.080 --> 1:45:51.439 fecal pile, so you know, that's a big bowl. And 1:45:51.439 --> 1:45:53.479 then we just changed the plant set a ground blind, 1:45:53.640 --> 1:45:55.519 waited it out and waited for him to have to come. 1:45:55.560 --> 1:45:59.640 How long did you wait? Same day both times? But 1:45:59.720 --> 1:46:03.520 that it seems like the ship piles every day exactly 1:46:03.600 --> 1:46:07.800 what I would lace. I would lace some feed with 1:46:07.840 --> 1:46:13.640 a laxative. What I'm saying, I know, I don't. I 1:46:13.640 --> 1:46:16.360 don't know what that would do for you. It might 1:46:16.400 --> 1:46:22.439 do the opposite. Increases visits to the pile for the 1:46:22.560 --> 1:46:26.040 dung pile too, Like they don't just poop anywhere. They 1:46:26.120 --> 1:46:29.080 just like you walk around and you're literally looking at 1:46:29.280 --> 1:46:35.840 little poop piles nicely, you know it. And you know 1:46:35.840 --> 1:46:41.200 what's funny is uh, swamp rabbits. But here's my observation 1:46:41.240 --> 1:46:45.160 about about the dung piles is that chester I did 1:46:45.640 --> 1:46:47.920 when I started paying closer to tention, we did find 1:46:48.520 --> 1:46:52.760 no guy, just dung or scat spread out like you 1:46:52.800 --> 1:46:55.160 wouldn't elk and like a feeding zone. It was just like, oh, 1:46:55.280 --> 1:46:57.360 there's been nil guy in here, and there's not piles 1:46:58.280 --> 1:47:03.240 pile themselves, so they will go there's there's there's They 1:47:03.360 --> 1:47:07.200 vary in size, you know, from you know, a big platter, 1:47:07.920 --> 1:47:11.240 food platter too, you know, like a car hood. But 1:47:11.320 --> 1:47:13.200 what I realized, and again it might because there's so 1:47:13.240 --> 1:47:16.080 many of them on this ranch, is that the difference 1:47:16.080 --> 1:47:19.559 between one that's like a steamer as we started calling them, 1:47:19.600 --> 1:47:21.519 and one that's not where you're like, oh man, someone's 1:47:21.520 --> 1:47:25.160 been here recently. Is one animal species that happened in 1:47:25.200 --> 1:47:28.840 the in the prior twelve hours. So you can't really say, oh, 1:47:28.880 --> 1:47:32.040 this is the hot one right now, because if if 1:47:32.080 --> 1:47:34.679 the bull decides to use the next dunk pile twelve 1:47:34.680 --> 1:47:36.760 hours later, all of a sudden, that became the hot one, 1:47:36.920 --> 1:47:38.800 you know what I mean. So I never saw one 1:47:38.800 --> 1:47:41.320 where like, oh my gosh, it looks like five nil 1:47:41.360 --> 1:47:43.880 guy have taken a ship here in the last twelve hours. 1:47:44.200 --> 1:47:47.559 It was always just like one had refreshed, had freshened 1:47:47.560 --> 1:47:52.880 it up, and it just it's like, yeah, um, if 1:47:52.920 --> 1:47:57.840 they're as skiittish as a pressured white tail, no way, 1:47:58.400 --> 1:48:05.720 probably not. But I can tell you that again, I'll 1:48:05.720 --> 1:48:07.400 cut to the taste. I had a lot of these. Again, 1:48:07.439 --> 1:48:09.360 there's a lot of game on this On on this ranch, 1:48:09.880 --> 1:48:14.920 we had great stalking uh spot still hunting conditions, not 1:48:15.040 --> 1:48:18.400 spoting stock, just moving through the brush slowly, trying to 1:48:18.479 --> 1:48:20.920 you know, see them before they see you. High winds 1:48:20.960 --> 1:48:23.280 fifteen and twenty miles an hour, making the brush move, 1:48:23.640 --> 1:48:25.519 very steady winds, so you know you've got the wind 1:48:25.560 --> 1:48:31.080 in your favorite paces. Yeah, very and like flat ground, 1:48:31.080 --> 1:48:33.040 which can be a little bit tricky because I'm used 1:48:33.040 --> 1:48:35.040 to hunting the mountains, where you always have a horizon 1:48:35.120 --> 1:48:37.000 to work with, and like when you see something you 1:48:37.000 --> 1:48:38.760 can kind of duck behind the horizon and make a 1:48:38.840 --> 1:48:41.000 move and getting close. When when you're hunting a ranchid 1:48:41.080 --> 1:48:44.160 is almost completely flat as a pancake, you don't have 1:48:44.240 --> 1:48:47.360 the luxury of horizons, and so you either have to 1:48:47.479 --> 1:48:51.320 use the vegetation as sort of a um instead of 1:48:51.360 --> 1:48:55.320 a horizontal horizon more of like a vertical horizon, and 1:48:55.400 --> 1:48:57.640 kind of come around corners and keep peeking around the 1:48:57.680 --> 1:49:02.840 corners like that. But multiple times at sub a hundred 1:49:02.920 --> 1:49:05.559 yards fifty to a hundred yards when I when when 1:49:05.640 --> 1:49:08.679 when and Chris gil was filming with me, and both 1:49:08.720 --> 1:49:11.120 of us had decided like, okay, we have to be 1:49:11.160 --> 1:49:14.160 taking half steps, like no more full steps, and once 1:49:14.200 --> 1:49:16.439 we get like sub seventy five, we're going hands and 1:49:16.479 --> 1:49:18.840 knees to get in close because we're just like gonna 1:49:18.880 --> 1:49:21.599 take them, take ourselves out of that like just general 1:49:21.720 --> 1:49:25.640 view of these animals, but both on my hands and 1:49:25.680 --> 1:49:29.280 knees and standing there multiple times in that like fifty 1:49:29.479 --> 1:49:32.960 seventy five range when I'm like, everything is perfect, the 1:49:33.000 --> 1:49:36.760 winds perfect. Um, they don't know I'm here. Their heads 1:49:36.800 --> 1:49:39.200 are down, they're feeding. There's not a bunch of animals. 1:49:39.520 --> 1:49:41.559 That's another problem. You get a bunch of animals. There's 1:49:41.600 --> 1:49:44.160 just more eyes. You're always battling, and when you think 1:49:44.240 --> 1:49:48.439 nobody's looking, somebody's looking. They catch it, right, But multiple times, 1:49:48.439 --> 1:49:51.320 like one or twosies, and I'm coming in on and 1:49:51.320 --> 1:49:55.679 I'm like, this is it, it's gonna happen. Just half step, 1:49:55.840 --> 1:49:58.040 half step, don't get ahead of yourself, don't let your 1:49:58.080 --> 1:50:01.880 weight get over your toes. And just sitting there, and 1:50:01.920 --> 1:50:04.280 I had a cow just pick her head up, look 1:50:04.400 --> 1:50:08.880 through a tree, look at me. And again it didn't 1:50:08.960 --> 1:50:12.120 last a second and she booked. And I just feel 1:50:12.160 --> 1:50:17.080 like a white tail um an elk in those situations 1:50:17.120 --> 1:50:19.960 if you are not moving. And again Chris Kell could 1:50:19.960 --> 1:50:22.240 have been doing something behind me that I don't know. 1:50:24.080 --> 1:50:28.200 I know, but listen, So that dude is so skinny, Yeah, 1:50:28.439 --> 1:50:31.000 and Gil knows what he's doing. Man, one of them. 1:50:31.560 --> 1:50:37.160 If you get after him and he's so skinny, he's 1:50:37.200 --> 1:50:40.599 behind me, it's kind of like a blind right if 1:50:40.600 --> 1:50:43.719 he's behind me. But anyways, I'm telling you multiple times, 1:50:43.840 --> 1:50:46.000 like lift up their heads for no reason. I didn't 1:50:46.000 --> 1:50:48.680 pop a stick to be like, oh I screwed up. 1:50:48.720 --> 1:50:51.800 I popped a stick, just like standing there, they look up. 1:50:52.040 --> 1:50:54.320 I'm like full face mask. At this point, I was 1:50:54.360 --> 1:50:56.120 talking like the first six hours of the first day 1:50:56.120 --> 1:50:58.679 with no face max out the window. I'm like, Okay, 1:50:58.760 --> 1:51:01.559 everybody's in full cam on. Now we're covered up gloves 1:51:01.600 --> 1:51:06.200 even though it's hot jackets no no, had I brought one, 1:51:06.240 --> 1:51:08.640 I probably would have tried it, but I didn't. I 1:51:08.680 --> 1:51:12.759 didn't bring one. Um. But yeah, man, just like getting 1:51:12.800 --> 1:51:16.799 busted for seemingly no reason and a lot of shaking 1:51:16.840 --> 1:51:20.040 my head and a lot of frustration and every and 1:51:20.040 --> 1:51:22.160 and you know, Brad, who we know from down there, 1:51:22.240 --> 1:51:24.040 is like that's the way you do it, as you 1:51:24.520 --> 1:51:26.920 spot and start or just you know, still hunt him, 1:51:26.920 --> 1:51:28.240 you know, get on your feet and find him and 1:51:28.240 --> 1:51:31.200 get close to him. I finally said, the hell with it, 1:51:31.400 --> 1:51:33.320 we're gonna I found a spot, a whole bunch of 1:51:33.360 --> 1:51:36.400 dung piles, some fresh ones we had every time we 1:51:36.400 --> 1:51:38.880 were in this zone. We were getting into nil guy 1:51:38.960 --> 1:51:40.760 and there was an open gate and a fence that 1:51:40.800 --> 1:51:44.200 goes you know miles in either direction, but here's an 1:51:44.200 --> 1:51:46.960 open gate and looks like pretty good crossings. So we 1:51:47.040 --> 1:51:50.520 do the whole ground blind thing, brush it in like crazy, 1:51:50.720 --> 1:51:53.160 and we gave it a full dark to dark sip. 1:51:54.400 --> 1:51:57.280 The one nil the one nil guy that came by 1:51:57.400 --> 1:51:59.080 came by on the other side of the fence and 1:51:59.160 --> 1:52:01.400 just passed the gay. I don't know if she would 1:52:01.400 --> 1:52:04.960 have come through well if I had not been there, 1:52:05.439 --> 1:52:07.360 because as soon as she was trying to get all 1:52:07.560 --> 1:52:11.400 I would have shot any of the old guy. Um 1:52:11.520 --> 1:52:13.840 when she came by. As soon as she appeared, like 1:52:14.000 --> 1:52:16.280 there was kind of like a brushy fence throw you know, 1:52:16.320 --> 1:52:17.800 you can kind of see through it, not see you 1:52:17.880 --> 1:52:19.960 through it. And as soon as she popped into view, 1:52:20.520 --> 1:52:22.720 she swung that head and was like, what is that 1:52:22.760 --> 1:52:25.400 thing over there? And she was probably I don't know, 1:52:25.439 --> 1:52:29.120 thirty yards Like she just pinned us, pinned the blind, 1:52:29.360 --> 1:52:32.280 not us like we had. In my opinion, like looking 1:52:32.320 --> 1:52:33.880 at it, I'll show you a picture. Its like we 1:52:33.920 --> 1:52:36.840 had a good hide. The orcs that came by didn't 1:52:36.840 --> 1:52:39.160 pin us. The white tails that came by didn't pin us. 1:52:39.280 --> 1:52:41.839 Like the white tails looked, but they would keep feeding, 1:52:41.880 --> 1:52:45.360 you know, she looked eyeballed us and just kept ride 1:52:45.360 --> 1:52:47.559 on walking and was like, I'm not I'm not bothering 1:52:47.600 --> 1:52:49.880 with that. We saw a few bulls, but they were 1:52:49.920 --> 1:52:51.880 just out of range and they were they were just 1:52:51.960 --> 1:52:54.000 moving a direction that wasn't going to bring him through 1:52:54.040 --> 1:52:57.720 that gap. So I could have put in three days 1:52:57.720 --> 1:52:59.880 in that blind and it would have happened. Maybe I don't. 1:53:00.040 --> 1:53:02.160 I didn't have the luxury of that because it was 1:53:02.360 --> 1:53:06.120 my second to last day. So even though it didn't 1:53:06.120 --> 1:53:09.000 work that day, the next morning, I'm like, okay, morning movement, 1:53:09.040 --> 1:53:11.920 I'll give it ninety minutes. See what happens. We said 1:53:11.920 --> 1:53:15.280 it no nil guy come through. Decided to get on 1:53:15.280 --> 1:53:17.599 our feet again. I'm like, okay, at least we're gonna 1:53:17.640 --> 1:53:20.040 get some action and hopefully we're running into some pigs. 1:53:20.080 --> 1:53:22.479 I'd like to shoot another pig. We can talk about 1:53:22.479 --> 1:53:25.479 that too. I had a blast hunting pigs with my bowl, 1:53:25.640 --> 1:53:30.320 like I felt like a kid. Is great. But immediately 1:53:30.400 --> 1:53:33.479 leaving the blind, like ten minutes into it again, great wind, 1:53:34.360 --> 1:53:37.240 like I bust a cow pop out of the water hole, 1:53:37.240 --> 1:53:38.680 and as soon as I hit the water hole and 1:53:38.720 --> 1:53:40.880 I'm like not even like I'm not like standing on 1:53:40.920 --> 1:53:42.479 the edge of the water. I'm looking at the water 1:53:42.560 --> 1:53:45.000 from ten yards back in the brush and I look 1:53:45.040 --> 1:53:47.080 over across the water and there's three nil guy bowls 1:53:47.240 --> 1:53:50.800 looking at me like son of a bitch, and they 1:53:50.960 --> 1:53:54.080 skid her off. I'm like, well, we'll just keep hunting, 1:53:54.120 --> 1:53:55.960 you know, go a little farther. We get to the 1:53:55.960 --> 1:53:59.120 next water hole, we think we hear a pig and 1:53:59.160 --> 1:54:01.639 so I'm like, okay, just totally going to pig mode. 1:54:01.720 --> 1:54:04.080 I thought I heard one grunt and Chris is like, yeah, 1:54:04.120 --> 1:54:07.120 I heard it too. Let's find this big. We're looking around, 1:54:07.200 --> 1:54:10.160 looking around, and we're like maybe again ten five to 1:54:10.200 --> 1:54:12.439 ten yards in the edge of a water hole. Well, 1:54:13.400 --> 1:54:16.920 from over my left shoulder, come in in the open, uh, 1:54:16.920 --> 1:54:20.200 into this water hole. Two Nilgai bulls walk into the 1:54:20.200 --> 1:54:23.320 water and start drinking the closest ones at like fifty yards. 1:54:23.920 --> 1:54:27.200 I'm like, buddy, it's on. Somehow they had not gotten 1:54:27.200 --> 1:54:28.920 my wind when they came in from behind me. Now 1:54:28.960 --> 1:54:31.280 they're up wind and me, I'm like, this is it. 1:54:31.360 --> 1:54:33.280 I gotta make ten yards. They're out in the open, 1:54:33.320 --> 1:54:35.760 there's no brush in the way, Like, I can make 1:54:35.800 --> 1:54:38.840 that shot, no problem, And Chris is like hands and knees. 1:54:38.840 --> 1:54:40.560 I'm like, we're on a buddy, We're all we're because 1:54:40.560 --> 1:54:42.240 we're actually looking for this pig. So we're like on, 1:54:42.400 --> 1:54:46.320 like we're already down. So we start going creeping, creeping, 1:54:46.960 --> 1:54:49.400 But you had limited yourself to a thirty yards shot. 1:54:49.520 --> 1:54:52.640 Thirty five is what I wanted to shoot. Probably in 1:54:52.720 --> 1:54:58.560 perfect conditions, I would have shot forty. Um. But yeah, 1:54:58.560 --> 1:55:02.640 I just don't like the more boning I've been doing lately. 1:55:03.800 --> 1:55:06.360 I don't want to get into those positions where like 1:55:06.400 --> 1:55:08.760 I make I take a shot and and it's not 1:55:08.840 --> 1:55:11.320 the outcome that I want, and it just seems like, 1:55:11.640 --> 1:55:14.200 you know, there's just too even if I make the 1:55:14.200 --> 1:55:17.040 perfect shot, there's so many other variables, you know, I 1:55:17.080 --> 1:55:19.760 want to make sure it does the trick. So yeah, 1:55:20.120 --> 1:55:24.680 forty for sure. Um, nothing past that. Uh So we 1:55:24.760 --> 1:55:28.080 start creeping and just seemingly out of the blue, the 1:55:28.160 --> 1:55:31.080 lead bowl like picks his head up and it's splashing 1:55:31.120 --> 1:55:33.280 out of the water and leaves going away from us, 1:55:33.640 --> 1:55:36.480 son of a bitch, And the other one doesn't spook 1:55:36.600 --> 1:55:41.200 but follows him too, you know. And I think now 1:55:41.400 --> 1:55:43.120 it was this third bowl that up I'm about to 1:55:43.120 --> 1:55:45.480 tell you about that comes in that got him to move, 1:55:45.520 --> 1:55:47.560 because I think he was a little bit ruddy onre 1:55:47.920 --> 1:55:50.440 maybe more dominant, and that's what got him out of there. 1:55:50.440 --> 1:55:52.520 So this wasn't our fault. This other bull comes in 1:55:52.600 --> 1:55:55.280 and he actually crosses a gap for me. At forty 1:55:55.360 --> 1:55:57.400 I come to full draw and I don't know if 1:55:57.440 --> 1:55:59.440 it's a nil guy thing or if he was running 1:55:59.480 --> 1:56:03.040 or what, but I got into them and I'm yelling 1:56:03.080 --> 1:56:05.600 at him and he's not stopping. He just marches right 1:56:05.600 --> 1:56:07.640 on through my window and follows the path of the 1:56:07.800 --> 1:56:12.440 two bulls. It's like, just keep hunting. So I'd go 1:56:12.480 --> 1:56:18.200 across the opening, follow them into the brush, and pop 1:56:18.240 --> 1:56:20.400 out into where it just kind of opens up a 1:56:20.440 --> 1:56:22.200 little bit and you can see fifty yards this way 1:56:22.240 --> 1:56:24.320 that way, and I see a single cow just kind 1:56:24.320 --> 1:56:27.200 of moving and she disappears beyd some brush. I'm like, okay, 1:56:27.360 --> 1:56:29.080 I'm in the mix, and again I'm shooting any ni 1:56:29.080 --> 1:56:31.440 old guy at this point, so I kind of make 1:56:31.480 --> 1:56:33.480 a move towards her, and I can see like a 1:56:33.480 --> 1:56:36.600 pretty long opening to my left that's made ten yards 1:56:36.600 --> 1:56:38.840 wide and almost can see a hundred yards and right 1:56:38.880 --> 1:56:42.400 as we get there, three bulls pop into there. One 1:56:42.520 --> 1:56:44.840 is like kind of stuff stuff that we saw when 1:56:44.840 --> 1:56:47.840 we were down there, all of us together. He's jumping around, prancing, 1:56:47.880 --> 1:56:51.920 tail up in the air like just poop like broadcasting 1:56:51.920 --> 1:56:55.160 out of his rear end. Yeah, which it kind of 1:56:55.200 --> 1:56:57.320 makes sense, right if they're doing the dung pile as 1:56:57.360 --> 1:57:00.520 like a set marker, it's like they're scrape that. He's 1:57:00.520 --> 1:57:03.400 gonna do that too in that situation, so just blasting 1:57:03.400 --> 1:57:06.840 it out, yeah, like an air soft gun. The other two, 1:57:07.400 --> 1:57:11.240 we and Chris gott this on camera, full on head bashing, 1:57:11.440 --> 1:57:14.120 and one just pushes the other one like through trees 1:57:14.760 --> 1:57:18.240 like brush getting knocked over to the point where I'm like, hey, 1:57:18.400 --> 1:57:21.200 do I want to get mixed up in this right? 1:57:21.360 --> 1:57:24.320 Like because because the other thing that Armando the guy 1:57:24.400 --> 1:57:26.480 told us about was like and it kind of worked 1:57:26.520 --> 1:57:28.640 on your hunt where like sometimes they'll think you are 1:57:28.680 --> 1:57:31.600 another nil guy sort come and inspect you. And so 1:57:31.640 --> 1:57:34.920 now I'm like, you know whatever, sixty seventy yards, I'm thinking, well, 1:57:35.120 --> 1:57:36.880 are thinking to like think I'm a nil guy instead 1:57:36.880 --> 1:57:38.960 of just inspecting me. Just do what he just did 1:57:39.000 --> 1:57:41.880 to his buddy. I don't have that inch thick hide 1:57:41.880 --> 1:57:47.400 across my chest, you know, and uh. Anyways, like I'm like, okay, 1:57:47.800 --> 1:57:50.280 we have running nil guy. This is good, and so 1:57:50.440 --> 1:57:52.880 I kind of just stay with the group. Eventually get 1:57:52.920 --> 1:57:54.680 to where I can see like three or four cows 1:57:54.680 --> 1:57:56.520 in the brush, and I see a bull walking there 1:57:56.560 --> 1:57:58.400 with them, a little bit out of range still maybe 1:57:58.400 --> 1:58:01.200 fifties sixty, and I had already seen him a couple 1:58:01.200 --> 1:58:03.760 of times, like follow them. The cows was scored out, 1:58:03.800 --> 1:58:05.280 you know, they get a little annoyed by whatever he 1:58:05.360 --> 1:58:08.800 was doing. They'd scored out. They scored out again, I 1:58:08.840 --> 1:58:11.480 see right where they go. He comes out after him. 1:58:11.480 --> 1:58:12.960 As soon as he puts his head behind this kind 1:58:13.000 --> 1:58:17.280 of bigger, massive vegetation. I sprint up like fifteen yards, 1:58:17.280 --> 1:58:19.240 come to full draw. When he comes from out from 1:58:19.280 --> 1:58:23.240 behind the rush, he stops just heading neck I can see. 1:58:23.720 --> 1:58:26.880 And he must have just seen something enough because when 1:58:26.880 --> 1:58:29.120 he doesn't follow the cows now, he kind of turns 1:58:29.160 --> 1:58:31.760 away from me and starts just going away. And but 1:58:31.840 --> 1:58:34.560 he's quartering but pretty hard, and at first I'm like, 1:58:34.600 --> 1:58:36.320 I can't take the shot. And again I'm trying to 1:58:36.320 --> 1:58:38.360 stop him, but I'm thinking I don't know if I 1:58:38.400 --> 1:58:40.960 can take the shot, because he's quarner like just walking. 1:58:41.000 --> 1:58:43.240 I don't want to take a walking shot. But because 1:58:43.240 --> 1:58:46.680 he's so quartering a way so hard, he's not actually 1:58:46.720 --> 1:58:48.840 like I'm not having to move my boat to follow him, 1:58:49.280 --> 1:58:51.360 like my pins are almost just like resting on him. 1:58:51.400 --> 1:58:54.080 He's because he's kind of going straight away. And so 1:58:54.440 --> 1:58:58.200 I shoot at like twenty six yards and he was walking, 1:58:58.800 --> 1:59:01.480 and uh, we replay the shot. I don't see him 1:59:01.480 --> 1:59:04.600 fall over. We replay the shot. Shot looks like it's 1:59:04.720 --> 1:59:07.280 a little bit far back, like it definitely enters like 1:59:07.560 --> 1:59:13.440 in the guts and but strong quarter. Yes, the very 1:59:13.480 --> 1:59:16.880 strong well turns out again. I'm gonna cut out some 1:59:16.880 --> 1:59:20.800 of the details. He went seventy yards and fell over, 1:59:21.840 --> 1:59:24.240 and uh, I was after watching the footage, I was 1:59:24.240 --> 1:59:26.840 going to back out, hook up with Troy, give it 1:59:26.880 --> 1:59:28.520 a couple of hours, and come in and try and 1:59:28.520 --> 1:59:31.000 try to look. But Chris is like, let's just do 1:59:31.080 --> 1:59:33.440 one quick little loop. I'm like, all right, you know 1:59:33.920 --> 1:59:38.080 that's my arm, but no blood and we couldn't find 1:59:38.080 --> 1:59:41.120 the Arab blood. No blood, couldn't find the arrow, and uh, 1:59:41.200 --> 1:59:43.280 I'd already this point, you got that like pitting your 1:59:43.280 --> 1:59:47.640 stuff totally. I'm like not stoked on the situation. And 1:59:47.640 --> 1:59:49.920 as you know as a honey host, the first thing 1:59:49.920 --> 1:59:51.840 in your head is like you start to like right 1:59:52.640 --> 1:59:54.360 the lines that you're gonna have to say to the 1:59:54.440 --> 1:59:58.680 camera about how you screwed the pooch and shit happens 1:59:58.720 --> 2:00:00.320 and blah blah blah blah bla blah blah. You know. 2:00:00.560 --> 2:00:04.320 So we recover it not long after, and um, I 2:00:04.400 --> 2:00:07.560 was very excited, I mean and surprised. I don't know 2:00:07.600 --> 2:00:08.800 if I would have been more surprised there was a 2:00:08.840 --> 2:00:11.400 leprecn standing there looking at me, you know, but like 2:00:11.680 --> 2:00:15.040 to see that dude down on the ground. Now when 2:00:15.040 --> 2:00:19.000 he again animals make it seventy yards in like, not 2:00:19.080 --> 2:00:25.600 even a full second where he died, I don't know. 2:00:25.720 --> 2:00:28.720 Had he gone another seventy yards, it would have been 2:00:28.840 --> 2:00:31.760 very easy blood trail because he had, you know, blood 2:00:31.880 --> 2:00:34.680 coming out of his mouth and his nose. Um. It 2:00:34.720 --> 2:00:36.880 would not have come out of either of the or 2:00:37.000 --> 2:00:39.600 the one wound where the where the broad had went in, 2:00:39.680 --> 2:00:42.000 because it went in, like I said, basically in the 2:00:42.080 --> 2:00:44.640 paunch and went all like probably went through eighteen inches 2:00:44.680 --> 2:00:50.200 of grass filled belly, then went through the diaphragm, split 2:00:50.240 --> 2:00:53.160 the lungs and half cut the uh, either the A 2:00:53.320 --> 2:00:57.760 order or the pulmonary artery. I had it in a 2:00:57.880 --> 2:00:59.680 text I can't remember now, but basically the one that 2:00:59.720 --> 2:01:02.840 can the lungs to the heart and then broke a 2:01:02.920 --> 2:01:05.280 rib on the way out went through the shoulder meat 2:01:05.920 --> 2:01:08.360 and the arrow. You could just feel the tip of 2:01:08.400 --> 2:01:11.520 the arrow through that inch thick hide right here. There's 2:01:11.520 --> 2:01:14.520 your selling point for that heavy arrow. So a little 2:01:14.520 --> 2:01:16.680 bit for sure, Like we we measured it with a 2:01:16.760 --> 2:01:19.000 tape measure were we had the luxury, as you know, 2:01:19.040 --> 2:01:21.360 on that ranch you can get a truck pretty close. 2:01:21.400 --> 2:01:23.960 We had to drag him maybe a hundred yards by hand, 2:01:24.080 --> 2:01:26.120 got him into a truck, took him back hole, guts 2:01:26.120 --> 2:01:29.320 in and everything so that we could really do fold 2:01:29.400 --> 2:01:32.640 that cropsy on what happened, you know when that arrow 2:01:32.720 --> 2:01:35.160 hit him, And we figured we got somewhere between like 2:01:35.240 --> 2:01:40.120 thirty six and of penetration with that arrow. Um, which 2:01:40.160 --> 2:01:45.640 is pretty good. That's great. Um. Like I said, I 2:01:45.680 --> 2:01:47.480 think had it not been that inch thick hide on 2:01:47.520 --> 2:01:50.240 his chest, the broadhead would have been poking out if 2:01:50.280 --> 2:01:52.440 not had gone all the way through, you know, but 2:01:52.760 --> 2:01:56.720 it stopped it. Um. But yeah, so it worked well 2:01:56.800 --> 2:01:58.720 and it was cool because we got to dissect it. 2:01:59.200 --> 2:02:02.360 Troy has um he used to be a respiratory therapist, 2:02:02.440 --> 2:02:07.640 so he's very uh intimate knowledge about the respiratory system 2:02:07.640 --> 2:02:09.080 and how that all that stuff works. So it's cool 2:02:09.120 --> 2:02:11.280 hanging out with the guy that not only can just go, oh, yeah, 2:02:11.320 --> 2:02:13.000 those are lungs and that's the heart, which we all 2:02:13.040 --> 2:02:14.840 can point to and do that, but how it all 2:02:14.840 --> 2:02:17.120 comes together and the different parts of the lungs and 2:02:17.360 --> 2:02:20.880 why there's you know, three lobes of the long here 2:02:20.920 --> 2:02:23.120 and not da dada da and all that stuff, and 2:02:23.400 --> 2:02:29.640 how come it's better to hit the lungs up front here, etcetera, etcetera. Um, 2:02:29.680 --> 2:02:32.320 So yeah, that's that was a nil guy hunt. It 2:02:32.440 --> 2:02:35.600 was hard to drag that thing. I could not drag 2:02:35.600 --> 2:02:37.960 it by myself. I can tell you that, like, not 2:02:38.040 --> 2:02:41.120 even move it for for a picture. And it took 2:02:41.160 --> 2:02:43.600 three of us. You know, he was pretty easy. Then 2:02:43.800 --> 2:02:46.320 have you guys tried to eating on it yet we did? 2:02:46.440 --> 2:02:50.160 I hate it is not well again, it's just one piece, 2:02:50.280 --> 2:02:56.680 just a loin, But I felt like yours was pretty tough. Um. Interesting, 2:02:56.720 --> 2:02:59.480 I've been I'm I mean, I've I guess I've hunted. 2:02:59.480 --> 2:03:02.680 No guy four times total, like only once was it 2:03:02.720 --> 2:03:05.440 a dedicated no guy hunt. But I've never had tough meat, 2:03:05.480 --> 2:03:08.520 and I've served him in my restaurants. Uh, but you 2:03:08.560 --> 2:03:11.360 know from Broken Air Ranch, these are still animals that 2:03:11.400 --> 2:03:13.640 are I mean they're in high fence, but it's they're 2:03:13.680 --> 2:03:15.640 still shot. Yeah, it's a few hundred thousand acres of 2:03:15.720 --> 2:03:18.680 high fence and they're still shot. And I've never we've never, ever, 2:03:18.720 --> 2:03:20.960 ever once served tough meat and not we're not. We 2:03:21.000 --> 2:03:23.680 don't serve the loin. We start the legs um and 2:03:23.680 --> 2:03:27.560 it's still supertendent. When we get our Warner Brunt. What's that? 2:03:28.880 --> 2:03:31.880 When we get our Warner brunsler sheer force test and 2:03:32.280 --> 2:03:34.200 bring some of that too. Yeah, you can bring some 2:03:34.240 --> 2:03:36.160 of yours in. I don't have any left of mind. 2:03:36.200 --> 2:03:38.920 I don't think I'd like to bring most of years 2:03:38.960 --> 2:03:40.640 into burger. I'd like to bring a chunk of my 2:03:41.080 --> 2:03:44.520 I got some orcs waiting for dinner to night, but 2:03:45.000 --> 2:03:46.440 I would like to bring a hunk of that and 2:03:46.480 --> 2:03:48.800 throw it on the old tester. My question for you 2:03:48.920 --> 2:03:50.600 is we should have Chester run it so he can 2:03:50.640 --> 2:03:53.320 go back to be in Chester with the tester. Do 2:03:53.360 --> 2:03:56.360 you know me? Like the official administer Chester. I'd love 2:03:56.440 --> 2:04:02.360 to because then it would be like a great we 2:04:02.400 --> 2:04:04.320 only have to buy one lab coat. One lab coat 2:04:04.360 --> 2:04:13.320 for Chester was sort of a selling point. Um, like 2:04:13.360 --> 2:04:19.000 are you doing like a M medium rare type preparation 2:04:19.080 --> 2:04:21.640 super rare? You are, yeah, so we'll serve it as 2:04:21.640 --> 2:04:25.200 tartar a lot will serve to um and does that 2:04:25.280 --> 2:04:30.680 work that you can? But is there something like it's 2:04:30.760 --> 2:04:36.440 it's like free range gun harvested or do they trap them? No, 2:04:36.600 --> 2:04:40.360 gun harvested. But but you'r X. You're getting out of 2:04:40.400 --> 2:04:43.480 Texas into Georgia, so you can do that. Well, I 2:04:43.520 --> 2:04:45.160 don't know if you could do it everywhere. I know 2:04:45.240 --> 2:04:47.280 that these guys that broken Ara Ranch can do it. 2:04:47.400 --> 2:04:48.800 You know they have they have that set up. But 2:04:48.800 --> 2:04:50.920 they're also so this is helicopter hunting that they're doing 2:04:50.960 --> 2:04:54.520 as well, and it's going through us D A inspection. Correct, 2:04:54.720 --> 2:04:57.200 there's the us D A processor on site. Like that's 2:04:57.280 --> 2:05:01.440 a process us so. Um, but I'm we call everything 2:05:01.560 --> 2:05:04.000 is harvested to order. So like we call them in 2:05:04.040 --> 2:05:06.320 and say, look we're looking for you know, this is 2:05:06.360 --> 2:05:08.000 what we need. Uh, and then we have to kind 2:05:08.000 --> 2:05:09.560 of wait it out for them to go harvest him 2:05:09.560 --> 2:05:11.480 when noil guy, it's never an issue because the populations, 2:05:11.520 --> 2:05:14.040 as you said, are so huge and honestly, they already 2:05:14.320 --> 2:05:17.040 they were telling me that they're running into issues, some 2:05:17.160 --> 2:05:21.080 sort of pressure from political pressure um with nail guy 2:05:21.240 --> 2:05:25.840 because of this um this like bovine fever tick that that. Yeah, 2:05:25.840 --> 2:05:28.240 they're doing that and they're like trying to inoculate them 2:05:28.240 --> 2:05:31.160 with these sprayers. So it's like what they explained to 2:05:31.160 --> 2:05:32.800 me is that, you know, this has been a serious 2:05:32.840 --> 2:05:36.080 issue like back in the Yeah, exactly. It's not that 2:05:36.120 --> 2:05:38.440 it it doesn't in any way actually affect the nil guy, 2:05:38.480 --> 2:05:41.839 the nil guy or the carrier. Um. It massively affects 2:05:41.880 --> 2:05:45.320 cattle and once the thing someone looked at them it's 2:05:45.120 --> 2:05:49.880 a fever tick like they call it a cattle and yeah, 2:05:49.920 --> 2:05:52.240 I know that that's causing heat between ranchers and nil 2:05:52.280 --> 2:05:54.360 guy exactly. And it's I mean, the issue is that 2:05:54.400 --> 2:05:57.920 in the early nineteen hundreds, Texas lost like of its 2:05:57.920 --> 2:06:00.680 cattle population to this tick. And that's why there's that 2:06:00.760 --> 2:06:04.440 quarantine zone in between the Texas and Mexico border where 2:06:04.440 --> 2:06:06.960 they literally you know, you have cowboys patrolling it every 2:06:06.960 --> 2:06:10.440 single day, pushing cattle back onto Mexico or keeping US 2:06:10.520 --> 2:06:13.120 cattle away from that zone. But the noil guy, they 2:06:13.120 --> 2:06:15.480 don't respond to bait, you know, So you can't bait 2:06:15.560 --> 2:06:18.600 him into um with cattle and white tail. They literally 2:06:18.600 --> 2:06:21.560 walk them through a like through a tick bath, and 2:06:21.600 --> 2:06:24.160 that's how they deal with it. Yeah, that we covered 2:06:24.200 --> 2:06:26.240 on the podcast a couple of years ago. I remember 2:06:26.240 --> 2:06:30.640 we covered that a live show um where oh speaking, 2:06:30.680 --> 2:06:34.120 which we're doing a live showing buildings a couple of 2:06:34.160 --> 2:06:39.120 months three. I'll talk about that for a second. Well, yeah, 2:06:39.240 --> 2:06:41.560 what's that. Yeah, we're doing a live showing buildings I 2:06:41.680 --> 2:06:44.320 May three as part of the show. During the whole show, 2:06:45.680 --> 2:06:48.960 Seth's gonna be flashing in the flip flops. See there 2:06:48.960 --> 2:06:53.120 you go. That's your double. There's gonna be a dramatic spotlight, 2:06:53.200 --> 2:06:56.200 like like the most dramatic theater lighting you've ever seen, 2:06:56.320 --> 2:06:59.840 and he can't talk, illuminating seths work area, and he'll 2:06:59.840 --> 2:07:03.360 be flashing and stretching for the whole show. The show sucks. 2:07:03.760 --> 2:07:06.640 The show sucks. You just watch Seth for ninety minute, 2:07:06.680 --> 2:07:09.760 and I believe believe you buy a ticket, you're gonna 2:07:09.800 --> 2:07:13.480 get a copy of the new book with tickets. So 2:07:13.520 --> 2:07:16.720 it's that's like publication week of Outdoor Kids in an 2:07:16.720 --> 2:07:20.600 indoor Yeah, if you need it, if you need a 2:07:20.640 --> 2:07:23.440 reference point inside world. Yeah, we went back and forth 2:07:23.480 --> 2:07:25.360 in it, so damn many times. Outdoor Kids in an 2:07:25.360 --> 2:07:28.720 Inside World. That's publication week. May third live show and buildings, 2:07:29.000 --> 2:07:31.960 and we're bundling tickets with a book, and we'll talk 2:07:32.000 --> 2:07:35.600 a lot about that type of stuff and about our 2:07:35.680 --> 2:07:39.040 kids and our sports. That's gonna flash. I wish we 2:07:39.120 --> 2:07:41.200 could think where you had a little wood stove set 2:07:41.200 --> 2:07:43.280 next year and you could be burning raccoon fat in it, 2:07:44.480 --> 2:07:47.240 but I don't know if that's the fire department. Yeah, 2:07:47.360 --> 2:07:49.160 uh Yanni. We should have a meat eater cooks with 2:07:49.240 --> 2:07:51.320 you're no guy. It's I mean, they produced a lot 2:07:51.320 --> 2:07:56.240 of meat, so you should have. So when you um, 2:07:56.360 --> 2:07:57.840 when you're selling it, what do you sell it as? 2:07:58.680 --> 2:08:01.520 We generally we sell We used to write nil guy, 2:08:01.560 --> 2:08:04.760 but then people they couldn't pronounce it, so like people 2:08:04.840 --> 2:08:06.960 don't order things they can't say they feel like they 2:08:07.000 --> 2:08:09.280 don't want to feel stupid, So we've got to pass 2:08:09.320 --> 2:08:13.200 up in Yeah, so we just put South Texas Antelope 2:08:13.280 --> 2:08:17.440 like and then we sell it that way. Really yeah, yeah, 2:08:17.840 --> 2:08:20.720 don't do a little parentheses. We so, you know, a 2:08:20.800 --> 2:08:23.320 gun show, we go to the table and tell you. 2:08:23.400 --> 2:08:26.280 So we say, no guy, but on the written menu 2:08:26.440 --> 2:08:28.760 it says South Texas antelope, and so we'll go, hey, guys, 2:08:28.960 --> 2:08:31.280 this is the antelope. It's it's actually the animals, something 2:08:31.280 --> 2:08:34.240 called a nil guy, which means blue bull, roughly translated 2:08:34.280 --> 2:08:35.960 from Hindu da da da da da. We give them 2:08:35.960 --> 2:08:39.000 the explanation, so yeah, I'm with you. Sell it that way, 2:08:39.240 --> 2:08:41.800 and it sells the fucking love it. They lose their minds. 2:08:41.840 --> 2:08:44.520 Are you afraid about giving up your source? Because because no, 2:08:44.640 --> 2:08:47.120 not at all, And in fact I would act no, 2:08:47.280 --> 2:08:49.040 I would. I would bang the drum for those guys, 2:08:49.040 --> 2:08:52.800 because um, yeah, we get black buck from them. Um, 2:08:52.880 --> 2:08:57.480 we get nil guy, we get um what else do 2:08:57.480 --> 2:09:01.080 we get from We don't actually get hogs them, but 2:09:01.080 --> 2:09:03.800 but we could certainly be getting hogs from them. Um, 2:09:03.800 --> 2:09:06.000 we can get fallow deer on occasion, on a rare 2:09:06.040 --> 2:09:08.440 occasion from them, just you know, kind of a luck 2:09:08.440 --> 2:09:11.120 of the draw thing. They'll call me and say saw 2:09:11.120 --> 2:09:14.560 a fallow dear today, like that kind of thing, So um, 2:09:15.080 --> 2:09:17.320 I'll take it. Yeah, exactly, do you buy a guy 2:09:17.400 --> 2:09:20.520 by the pound. Yeah, it's expensive. Give me a rough ballpark. 2:09:20.800 --> 2:09:22.720 I mean, this is the part that I'm probably like 2:09:22.840 --> 2:09:24.760 throwing them, like throwing them under the bus here. Just 2:09:24.800 --> 2:09:27.040 gonna be a rough ballpark. You could be in the 2:09:27.080 --> 2:09:31.280 thirties and forties a pound, you know, so that's the meat, 2:09:31.360 --> 2:09:34.920 not live waight correct. Yeah, And I mean we mistakenly 2:09:35.000 --> 2:09:37.640 one time bought a whole Neil guy. That was not 2:09:37.960 --> 2:09:41.040 a good decision. Turns out that's really hard to you know, 2:09:41.040 --> 2:09:42.440 when you had a restaurant, you're like, all right, well, 2:09:42.440 --> 2:09:44.120 now the rest of the walk in is just for 2:09:44.240 --> 2:09:50.160 storing this. Um Like yeah exactly. We ordered two sides 2:09:50.200 --> 2:09:51.520 of nil gay and they were like, you don't want that, 2:09:51.520 --> 2:09:53.840 and I'm like, yes, I do. We process everything in house, 2:09:53.880 --> 2:09:56.240 and they're like, all right, idiot, So they said it. Um, 2:09:56.320 --> 2:09:58.960 it's also cost the fortune. It was the most expensive 2:09:58.960 --> 2:10:01.840 thing to ship in the universe. That um now we 2:10:01.920 --> 2:10:04.640 get now we get sometimes bone in meat. But we 2:10:04.720 --> 2:10:07.600 actually we've just worked with them for so long, forever 2:10:07.640 --> 2:10:10.120 a decade. Now that they've gotten where they will kind 2:10:10.120 --> 2:10:12.280 of custom send stuff to me. You know, if I 2:10:12.320 --> 2:10:14.000 tell them this is what I want, if I if 2:10:14.040 --> 2:10:17.280 I was in Atlanta and I walked in the Gun Show, Uh, 2:10:17.440 --> 2:10:19.760 is it on the menu right now? Actually, it might 2:10:19.800 --> 2:10:21.480 be on the menu right now. I have to look 2:10:21.480 --> 2:10:23.440 and see. We you know, Gun Show rewrites the menu 2:10:23.560 --> 2:10:26.680 every day. Yeah, if you always got a thing going, no, 2:10:26.840 --> 2:10:29.760 we all we generally have some form of a game 2:10:29.800 --> 2:10:34.480 product at all times. Um. But I think right now 2:10:34.520 --> 2:10:37.520 we are selling Feral Hog because we just filmed Safertooth 2:10:37.520 --> 2:10:39.720 there and so we're still doing that. But that's what 2:10:39.840 --> 2:10:41.720 you know, when I was when I was talking about 2:10:42.000 --> 2:10:45.040 game and restaurants, I need to expand the list of 2:10:45.040 --> 2:10:48.440 things I think that are worth recommending to people, and 2:10:48.520 --> 2:10:51.200 you know, rather than buying like like like a lot 2:10:51.240 --> 2:10:52.880 of stuff about of Texas. Like I always think like 2:10:52.960 --> 2:10:54.720 bison is a great thing to buy because it supports 2:10:54.760 --> 2:10:59.720 the animal, not vice versa. Um, I think no guys 2:11:00.440 --> 2:11:04.800 like that. I definitely don't like the pendelk operations, right, 2:11:05.040 --> 2:11:07.600 but there's so many like those Ferrells out of Texas. Yeah, 2:11:07.600 --> 2:11:09.760 I think, especially the exotics out of Texas. I think 2:11:09.760 --> 2:11:12.880 you really should. I think more chefs should be using them. 2:11:13.200 --> 2:11:16.000 Nil Guy especially honestly, like nil Guy populations are getting 2:11:16.000 --> 2:11:18.240 super high there are a lot of people in power 2:11:18.280 --> 2:11:21.920 who want massive calling to take place. Um, if there 2:11:21.960 --> 2:11:25.120 was an economy behind that meat going to actually be 2:11:25.280 --> 2:11:28.240 used as opposed to just being shot and left, um, 2:11:28.280 --> 2:11:30.080 I would that would be a lot better situation. They're 2:11:30.240 --> 2:11:32.040 I mean, they're gonna have to reduce the population one 2:11:32.040 --> 2:11:33.960 way or the other, and I'd rather people be selling 2:11:34.000 --> 2:11:36.800 them in restaurants personally, do you uh, when you guys 2:11:36.840 --> 2:11:39.240 grind it? Do you ever grind it? Now? We never do. 2:11:40.400 --> 2:11:42.480 If we're grinding, you put some fat in it? Right? 2:11:42.600 --> 2:11:45.040 Oh yeah, yeah, there's it's just non existent for the 2:11:45.040 --> 2:11:48.360 best part. So any preparation we do is always paired 2:11:48.360 --> 2:11:50.600 against a ton of fat. So that's why tartar works 2:11:50.640 --> 2:11:53.920 really great, because you're talking raw meat that's folded in 2:11:53.960 --> 2:11:56.120 with egg yolks and things like that, so it rich. 2:11:56.280 --> 2:11:58.520 It adds that richness back to it. It's actually that's 2:11:58.520 --> 2:12:01.600 one of the best preparations for super lean meat because 2:12:01.640 --> 2:12:05.040 it bounces out that fact, did you save the hide 2:12:05.120 --> 2:12:08.440 on that thing? I did not? I I did, and 2:12:08.640 --> 2:12:10.600 I wish I would have handled mine better because later 2:12:10.640 --> 2:12:12.920 I wanted to have it laminated to that. You know 2:12:12.960 --> 2:12:16.040 that how Brad has that one it's like got that 2:12:16.160 --> 2:12:18.440 rubber stuff on the underside and it lays out like 2:12:18.600 --> 2:12:21.680 real flat and beautiful. I hadn't noticed it. You haven't 2:12:21.720 --> 2:12:25.320 seen that, dude. It's amazing, amazing, and what's the years? 2:12:25.360 --> 2:12:28.040 Just kind of wrinkly, just and I should I wish i'd. 2:12:28.200 --> 2:12:30.600 If I could do it all over again, I would 2:12:30.640 --> 2:12:34.960 have gone in and skinned it very carefully and sent 2:12:35.080 --> 2:12:39.800 it to like a like a delicate tannery and had 2:12:39.840 --> 2:12:43.360 it laminated to that. Because the thing about those is 2:12:43.560 --> 2:12:46.840 they laminated to this rubber stuff. And that's some bitch. 2:12:46.920 --> 2:12:49.240 Lays so flat you could run a vacuum over it 2:12:49.880 --> 2:12:54.200 like flat. I just found it dulls your knives like 2:12:54.200 --> 2:12:57.880 you're processing knives like crazy because that skin is so gnarly. Yeah, 2:12:57.880 --> 2:13:01.600 it's crazy. Yeah, get on his flank is he's got 2:13:01.600 --> 2:13:05.680 like a wild pig shield and that crazy hair. Yeah yeah, 2:13:05.720 --> 2:13:08.840 exactly like you decided to cut a wire brush up 2:13:08.840 --> 2:13:12.200 with your knife. Exactly. Yeah, honest, you should talk about 2:13:12.240 --> 2:13:16.760 that that patch that you that patch of hide that's 2:13:16.760 --> 2:13:20.120 super thick that you post a picture of that already did. 2:13:20.560 --> 2:13:24.840 But yeah, basically from you know, why you said tonight 2:13:25.000 --> 2:13:30.400 is because this room feels like the evening together, I 2:13:30.440 --> 2:13:34.240 was going to start dipping some strawberries and chocolate. Our 2:13:34.560 --> 2:13:36.839 our track lighting is out. We got some mood lamps 2:13:36.840 --> 2:13:41.200 going oh yeah, dude, but yeah, basically from from lavender 2:13:41.240 --> 2:13:43.800 candle really sets it off from the tips of their 2:13:43.800 --> 2:13:47.520 shoulders wrapping around the you know, their chest, the hide 2:13:47.600 --> 2:13:50.800 goes from It's still a dang thick and tough hide 2:13:51.080 --> 2:13:53.440 behind that, you know, going towards the rear of the animal, 2:13:53.760 --> 2:13:57.040 but that chest it literally turns into darn near an 2:13:57.040 --> 2:14:00.160 inch thick. It's not like it almost looks like it's 2:14:00.160 --> 2:14:02.560 a layer of fat, but it's not. I mean, it's 2:14:02.600 --> 2:14:05.880 an inch thick hide. And the best we can figure, well, 2:14:05.880 --> 2:14:08.600 there's probably two reasons. One when you're fighting sharp ass hordes, 2:14:08.600 --> 2:14:10.560 when you're fighting with your buddies. And yeah, the bull 2:14:10.600 --> 2:14:12.600 I killed the same thing with the bull you killed. 2:14:12.840 --> 2:14:15.080 It had three holes in it where you could take 2:14:15.160 --> 2:14:17.880 your pointer finger and just and and jam it to 2:14:17.920 --> 2:14:20.560 the second knuckle in there and then you'd feel the 2:14:20.600 --> 2:14:23.680 end of it. Right, So they're constantly getting these wounds. 2:14:23.920 --> 2:14:26.640 But also think somebody pointed out on Instagram that like, yeah, 2:14:26.960 --> 2:14:31.320 they also where they are originally from Bengal tigers chase 2:14:31.400 --> 2:14:33.840 them around, you know, and and jump on their neck. 2:14:33.960 --> 2:14:37.840 So that could be a pat because that might be 2:14:37.880 --> 2:14:43.280 why their radar, like their long range radar, is calibrated, 2:14:43.320 --> 2:14:46.120 the risk calibration is different than the risk calibration on 2:14:46.160 --> 2:14:49.000 their short range radar. They also have not great sense 2:14:49.040 --> 2:14:51.120 of smell. I've always been told like that, don't really 2:14:51.120 --> 2:14:52.800 worry about the wind when you're hunting nail Guy, Like 2:14:52.800 --> 2:14:55.640 they don't smell that great. But we were told that too, 2:14:57.280 --> 2:14:59.280 and I had instances where I think I felt the 2:14:59.320 --> 2:15:01.320 wind on my neck, didn't get winded, and then had 2:15:01.320 --> 2:15:03.720 instances to where I'm like, the only way we just 2:15:03.720 --> 2:15:06.320 got busses because we got winded. So um, I was 2:15:06.360 --> 2:15:09.000 reading something a while back after the last Neil Guy 2:15:09.040 --> 2:15:11.440 hunt that I was on um about the fact that 2:15:11.480 --> 2:15:14.880 in India, you know, we call him an antelope, they 2:15:14.920 --> 2:15:18.480 consider them cattle and so they're they're sacred just like 2:15:18.600 --> 2:15:22.960 any other. Yeah, they don't eat them. Yeah, for that reason, 2:15:23.200 --> 2:15:25.400 that all of their pressure in their native environment was 2:15:25.400 --> 2:15:29.640 actually from colonialism, like from you know, English folks hunting them. 2:15:29.720 --> 2:15:31.680 So they don't hunt them, they don't do anything with them. 2:15:31.680 --> 2:15:34.680 They just let them do their thing. Interesting. Oh ye, honest, 2:15:34.760 --> 2:15:39.560 when when can people go watch The hunt Man? May 2:15:39.640 --> 2:15:49.000 of yeah, that because that's the schedule that um only yeah, 2:15:49.040 --> 2:15:52.360 I mean I'm working to push that up a little bit. 2:15:52.400 --> 2:15:55.160 But yeah, man, this this production house is a busy 2:15:55.160 --> 2:16:00.240 production house. And and I'm filming a year out. Huh, 2:16:00.760 --> 2:16:06.800 Janni dies, we won't even really feel it for a while. Yeah, 2:16:06.800 --> 2:16:12.120 as long as plenty of stuff coming, as long as 2:16:12.160 --> 2:16:14.000 you can come in and uh, you know, do my 2:16:14.080 --> 2:16:15.960 v O for me, Yeah, it would be good. We 2:16:16.080 --> 2:16:19.640 got plenty of time to find a stand in maybe 2:16:19.800 --> 2:16:25.280 like wow, yeah, yeah, over a year, like we're playing 2:16:25.920 --> 2:16:29.320 I'm playing anything like that. Yeah, I mean we're we're 2:16:30.040 --> 2:16:35.240 editing and putting out season three of my show, which 2:16:35.240 --> 2:16:38.360 will be out this May and then but this was 2:16:38.360 --> 2:16:41.480 already filming for season four. I can tell you three. 2:16:41.680 --> 2:16:43.680 The last week of July, I'll be out my fish check. 2:16:43.720 --> 2:16:46.680 That's about it. That's about it, and I'll be watching 2:16:46.720 --> 2:16:52.320 Yanni's thinking May Yeah yeah, um yeah, my. I think 2:16:52.720 --> 2:16:55.120 the last thought on that, which was cool to hang 2:16:55.120 --> 2:16:57.280 out hang out with Troy, being that he knew the 2:16:57.320 --> 2:17:00.160 insides of the animal. He puts a lot of emphasis 2:17:00.200 --> 2:17:03.120 on that, like we all should know that, and it 2:17:03.160 --> 2:17:05.120 makes total sense, right, like we all kind of know, 2:17:05.240 --> 2:17:07.560 like you know where to shoot the animal, right, but 2:17:08.000 --> 2:17:11.400 right neal boiler room. Yeah, exactly, that's like the level 2:17:11.400 --> 2:17:15.360 of detail, right. And all we heard about was how 2:17:15.400 --> 2:17:18.520 their vitals were like way up front and it's blocked 2:17:18.560 --> 2:17:20.520 by the big shoulder. Well, you know what when we 2:17:20.600 --> 2:17:24.960 did this like side view netcrop scene, literally just like 2:17:25.080 --> 2:17:27.720 left everything as it was and took the shoulder off, 2:17:28.040 --> 2:17:30.600 flipped the ridge cape cage open so you could see 2:17:30.640 --> 2:17:33.240 it all. But it turns out, no, it really wasn't 2:17:34.040 --> 2:17:37.360 tucked up more than an elk or yeah, kind of 2:17:37.360 --> 2:17:39.080 where you think it would be. I think that's I 2:17:39.120 --> 2:17:41.440 think that's a misnomer due to this whole antelymp thing 2:17:41.440 --> 2:17:44.480 because something like a scimitar orys that's very much the 2:17:44.520 --> 2:17:47.320 case that I mean, it's it's vitals are that little 2:17:47.320 --> 2:17:49.200 orange stripe on the front of it is where they 2:17:49.200 --> 2:17:51.560 all live. And if you shoot behind that, so you're 2:17:51.560 --> 2:17:54.039 shooting in front of the front shoulder, Like if you 2:17:54.080 --> 2:17:55.880 get behind that, it's just gonna pass through and it's 2:17:55.879 --> 2:17:57.720 gonna just I mean, it will probably die eventually, but 2:17:57.760 --> 2:18:01.520 it's just gonna trod on away. But yeah, just the 2:18:01.560 --> 2:18:03.560 importance I think that, you know, we should all take 2:18:03.600 --> 2:18:06.439 the time. Like I think now I'm gonna like netcropsy 2:18:06.600 --> 2:18:08.600 like every unless I'm just out of time and it's 2:18:08.640 --> 2:18:12.039 super dark, but like it's so educational to take the 2:18:12.080 --> 2:18:15.560 time and as you're butchering, you know, really look and 2:18:15.600 --> 2:18:17.800 see what happened inside there, what what your bullet did, 2:18:17.840 --> 2:18:20.520 what your arrow did, and try to figure it out, 2:18:20.600 --> 2:18:22.120 you know. And I just think the next time you 2:18:22.240 --> 2:18:24.640 take a shot, you're gonna be that much more confident 2:18:24.680 --> 2:18:27.720 about Like, Okay, I'm not just aiming for the longest, 2:18:28.200 --> 2:18:30.720 I'm aiming for this specific thing. Did you settle on 2:18:30.800 --> 2:18:35.039 netcropsy after consideration of necropsy? I've heard of both ways. Well, 2:18:35.160 --> 2:18:38.400 I thought that long ago we were corrected to say netcropsy. 2:18:38.600 --> 2:18:43.200 I don't know. I think both are right. Yeah, it's 2:18:43.200 --> 2:18:46.560 like coups and cows. Yeah, I still think that you say, 2:18:46.879 --> 2:18:50.959 Bagel kind of messed up. But Bagel, I don't know 2:18:50.959 --> 2:18:56.280 what you say it once Bagel, bagelage Bagel. You know 2:18:56.320 --> 2:19:00.000 you want to Bagel, I can't do it. Say where 2:19:00.160 --> 2:19:03.000 I'm not hearing it. It's like he's Bagel. He's corrected 2:19:03.040 --> 2:19:06.120 I think, okay, he's a bag old guy. Yeah, well 2:19:06.120 --> 2:19:09.080 I know, but yeah, I'm trying to get it right. No, 2:19:09.160 --> 2:19:12.440 I would be like ride it down to be like 2:19:13.360 --> 2:19:23.040 natural space bag bag. It's definitely big. It's a little 2:19:23.160 --> 2:19:30.360 vague bag bag, say it once, vague vague. I didn't 2:19:30.400 --> 2:19:31.800 get one of those jobs where you pronounced stuff on 2:19:31.800 --> 2:19:35.320 the internet. You just you just you just recorded an 2:19:35.320 --> 2:19:39.199 audio book. So I'll say it all a lot of ways. 2:19:40.959 --> 2:19:44.160 Give him three for everyone, like none of these are correct. 2:19:44.200 --> 2:19:46.520 By the way, I'll start off bigging like I don't know. 2:19:47.040 --> 2:19:49.480 You could say, yeah, I think these are all fine, 2:19:49.520 --> 2:19:52.320 They're all acceptable. You should do an app like Siri 2:19:52.400 --> 2:19:55.520 where people can just like down you just record everything 2:19:55.680 --> 2:20:04.640 like questions, tast bagel crops. Before we wrap up here, 2:20:04.640 --> 2:20:07.600 I just want to mention that new Yanni's book report 2:20:07.680 --> 2:20:10.560 jingle you heard up top. Oh that was just sent 2:20:10.600 --> 2:20:12.520 in by some guy. Yeah, his name is Barry Rigby. 2:20:12.600 --> 2:20:16.720 So thanks for writing that and sending that in serious. Yeah, yeah, 2:20:16.760 --> 2:20:21.360 Yanni pointed that out to me. Oh, next time we record, 2:20:21.480 --> 2:20:23.480 remind me to tell you the story about the fleas 2:20:23.480 --> 2:20:27.800 over at my house. My skin is still crawling. I 2:20:27.840 --> 2:20:31.360 had to get the shower, getting getting himself in trouble, 2:20:31.959 --> 2:20:34.200 a lot of trouble. Well, there's only the reason we 2:20:34.240 --> 2:20:41.640 can't talk about that around that time. It's funny story, Kevin, 2:20:41.640 --> 2:20:44.000 Thanks man, Good seeing you by, guys. I'll be back 2:20:44.000 --> 2:20:45.480 in a couple of weeks. We'll pick up where we 2:20:45.640 --> 2:20:50.200 left off. Yeah, because I had I had a bite 2:20:50.240 --> 2:20:55.440 of your to go to gross from from gross to great. 2:20:55.560 --> 2:20:57.800 But yeah, we should have done it the other way around. 2:20:57.879 --> 2:21:04.480 Hog holiday ham Ye like wet ass s exactly. Yeah. So, 2:21:04.760 --> 2:21:08.320 by the way, those things don't taste. Did Garrett tell 2:21:08.360 --> 2:21:09.879 you that he has an extra one at his house? 2:21:09.920 --> 2:21:13.080 He probably didn't tell you that any I knew. I 2:21:13.160 --> 2:21:14.480 knew he was going to hold out on you, guys. 2:21:14.520 --> 2:21:16.440 There's a whole other ham at his house that'll be 2:21:16.480 --> 2:21:21.080 ready to be smoked. Hold his feet over the fire 2:21:21.120 --> 2:21:22.560 on the twelve. He's got to pull that thing out 2:21:22.560 --> 2:21:25.160 of the brine and cook it. That was I'm not joking. 2:21:26.640 --> 2:21:29.200 I hope Jesse Griffiths isn't listening. That might be the 2:21:29.240 --> 2:21:31.240 best thing I ever ate. That might be the best 2:21:31.280 --> 2:21:32.920 thing I ever ate. That came off a wild pig. 2:21:34.400 --> 2:21:37.480 Did you hear that, Jesse? Hold on let me put 2:21:37.480 --> 2:21:40.240 you on speaker. No, seriously, I've got four of those 2:21:40.280 --> 2:21:43.600 hams in the freezer right now, so you could send that. 2:21:45.440 --> 2:21:47.800 We filmed that recipe yesterday, so but I can't wait 2:21:47.840 --> 2:21:49.959 six months. No, But I mean, like I feel like 2:21:50.080 --> 2:21:52.480 you could probably get access to some of that footage. 2:21:52.480 --> 2:21:54.760 But I'll send you the recipe. It's actually if anybody 2:21:54.840 --> 2:21:58.240 like preliminarily wants that recipe. Um, if you have my 2:21:58.520 --> 2:22:01.760 second cookbook, Pure Pork Awesomeness, it's in there. It's just 2:22:01.800 --> 2:22:04.320 not set for for Farrell Hogs. But you don't need 2:22:04.360 --> 2:22:06.240 to you don't need to adjust it like you use 2:22:06.280 --> 2:22:10.840 the exact same recipe. It's in there. Go get it. 2:22:10.920 --> 2:22:13.959 Is there still some in the fridge. So I saw 2:22:13.720 --> 2:22:18.400 Sean Wever was sacking it up. Yeah what Yeah? No, 2:22:21.920 --> 2:22:24.480 I thought he was like loaded in a sack, taking 2:22:24.480 --> 2:22:30.160 it with him to say, loading it into a double 2:22:30.560 --> 2:22:33.039 like a double ziplock, kind of a messy double zip 2:22:33.040 --> 2:22:35.600 block situation. He put it in a handkerchief and tight 2:22:35.640 --> 2:22:41.959 around a stick. And then yeah, he's like, I was 2:22:41.959 --> 2:22:43.640 planning to leave this afternoon, but turns out you can 2:22:43.720 --> 2:22:46.560 go right now. See if Bye? All right, man, guys, 2:22:46.560 --> 2:23:02.760 Thanks everybody p