Speaker 1: Hey, listen, man, Uh, we got a neighbor. You're not recording, Sorry, Phil,
Speaker 1: He's always recording. Okay, I got a neighbor. Um. I
Speaker 1: don't want to say their name. Their family love sports.
Speaker 1: They used to play sports. The parents used to play sports.
Speaker 1: So for them to spend every weekend going to sports
Speaker 1: is a real treaty. I'm not telling them not to
Speaker 1: do that. That's what I'm saying. I'm saying I don't
Speaker 1: want to do that. They don't want to go ice fish.
Speaker 1: You start off by saying, what did your parents do
Speaker 1: on the weekend? Yeah, and then if if they're like, well,
Speaker 1: they sit at home watch sports all weekend, And it's like,
Speaker 1: all right, you're fine. You can think about putting your
Speaker 1: kids in sports. Yeah, you can do both. Who can
Speaker 1: sports and outdoor activities? I can't. Well, I didn't know.
Speaker 1: He a young individual, lots outdoor activities and great podcast incompatible.
Speaker 1: Here's the main thing. I have a certain bag here.
Speaker 1: I have a certain bag of tricks to bring to
Speaker 1: that I can bring to the table. Need have a
Speaker 1: whole conversation. What are you doing? I was telling Karanta,
Speaker 1: hit the record, I'll turn the recorderback on I have
Speaker 1: a certain bag of tricks that I can bring to
Speaker 1: the table as a parent that that should be valued. Like,
Speaker 1: let's say, for instance, let's say name for me a
Speaker 1: sports figure, Michael Jordan's. Uh, Michael Jordan comes over to
Speaker 1: spend the weekend at your house. Okay, it would make
Speaker 1: sense that if there's a basketball court and he's staying
Speaker 1: the weekend and he says, I'd love to take the
Speaker 1: kids out to shoot a few hoops as they say,
Speaker 1: you would be like, well, that makes a hell of
Speaker 1: a lot of sense, seeing that's how you're Michael Jordan's.
Speaker 1: So if you have a person that likes to hunting
Speaker 1: fish in the house, and you have hunting and fishing
Speaker 1: to be done around home, wouldn't you extend the same logic? Sure, Okay,
Speaker 1: you wouldn't be like, hey, everybody, Michael Jordan's here for
Speaker 1: the weekend, let's go ice fishing. Maybe you'd be like, hey, Michael,
Speaker 1: He's like, no, I wanted to shoot some hoops the kids. No, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: no no no no no, take them ice fishing. Clearly,
Speaker 1: you don't understand that Michael Jordan's actually just a degenerate gambler.
Speaker 1: That's all I really want to do. When he was
Speaker 1: at Man, I watched that whole movie. Listen, I watched it.
Speaker 1: That's why I know a lot about this. I came
Speaker 1: away from that like with deep admiration for the guy.
Speaker 1: Did none of that. You didn't come away thinking he
Speaker 1: was an asshole. None of that bad stuff resonated with me.
Speaker 1: None of that bad stuff resonated with me. Last dance. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I like all that. I like all that. Playing for
Speaker 1: keeps like, I like all that all. I liked all
Speaker 1: that stuff, all of it. Okay, turn around, Phil, that
Speaker 1: was all free content for everyone for you six No,
Speaker 1: that was free. No, I think we should publish that
Speaker 1: as a free bonus extra. Yeah when no lead in
Speaker 1: just launched straight in middle free, don't say we never
Speaker 1: gave you nothing free. Be great. If we could have
Speaker 1: Carrie here and Katie here to help down here, then look,
Speaker 1: I'm just not wasting on my weekends on that kind
Speaker 1: of ship. And Carrie doesn't like it. When I put
Speaker 1: it that way, I almost had to go sleep on
Speaker 1: the couch about this, Doris. I did is that kind
Speaker 1: of fell asleep? But I was laying or thinking about
Speaker 1: you know what I'm gonna do to really make my point,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna sleep on the couch. How did that work out?
Speaker 1: I tell sleep? Do you wake up soaring feeling guilty
Speaker 1: the next morning? No? No No, No, I'm saying I was
Speaker 1: in bed thinking about storming out and going to the couch.
Speaker 1: You never made but I fell asleep. I never got to, like,
Speaker 1: do make your point? Yeah? Have you have you heard
Speaker 1: Mitch hed Burgh's deal about why he doesn't like camping
Speaker 1: because it's too hard to express his anger When he
Speaker 1: tries to, he tries to angrily zip the tent. He's like,
Speaker 1: fuck you, we need to have a bigger conversation about
Speaker 1: Did you know that I was helping him coach my
Speaker 1: girls basketball team the last two months? Yeah? But let
Speaker 1: me ask you this. Not on the weekends. No weekend.
Speaker 1: I don't care. That's what I've told everybody. I don't
Speaker 1: care what to do. What I've been very on the weekdays.
Speaker 1: I've been very supportive of all the kids are in swim.
Speaker 1: They swim two days a week. I'm hot and now
Speaker 1: they're like little river otters, all of them, very strong swimmers.
Speaker 1: They'll swim till they die. They will not play sports
Speaker 1: when they're eighty, they'll still be swimming. There's no way
Speaker 1: he already quit tea ball. Yeah, but he might be
Speaker 1: come by. That argument makes no sense at all. Oh,
Speaker 1: I agree, man, you shouldn't do something that they're gonna
Speaker 1: do until they're dead. Exactly. That's exactly what I'm saying. Okay,
Speaker 1: develop some lifelong skills and skills that are developed in
Speaker 1: team sports too. We can't discount that they always they're
Speaker 1: always telling you that, They're always telling you that I
Speaker 1: want you to go, fine, Okay, I want you to
Speaker 1: go like, Okay, find a way to measure cooperation, Like,
Speaker 1: how do you measure co operation? They? I wanted to
Speaker 1: go randomly, sample randomly, select a hundred Americans, spend a
Speaker 1: week with them, and give them a cooperation score, and
Speaker 1: then correlate it for me. Show me the correl the
Speaker 1: correlation that they're like, Oh, the top scorers all wrestled
Speaker 1: in high school. I bet that studies toughness. If you
Speaker 1: do a toughness if you were to do a toughness
Speaker 1: like tests, like mentally toughness, I think that wrestling would
Speaker 1: be up there. I think you want to have them.
Speaker 1: Do you have a contest about who's mentally more tough
Speaker 1: out of you and me. How how do we set
Speaker 1: it up? Bill? Turn them with scientifically legitimate record contest, No,
Speaker 1: no blanking. We don't have a baseline, we don't have
Speaker 1: it bored. Yeah, this is a riveting podcast, alight. I
Speaker 1: know you guys can't see us staring at each other,
Speaker 1: but I just I like, if you, if the parents
Speaker 1: like it, I think that you should do it. I'm
Speaker 1: not against it. I think you should do it. I
Speaker 1: don't what I'm against our wives or husbands. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: cut it right there. When I'm against, I'm against wives
Speaker 1: or husbands forcing their spouse into doing things with their
Speaker 1: kids that they hate. When the big win, they want
Speaker 1: to do a different thing with their kids. I can
Speaker 1: see if he's like, I don't want do anything. I
Speaker 1: want to sit here and be a bad parent, then
Speaker 1: I'd be like, listen, that's not gonna fly. Take him
Speaker 1: to basketball. But if they're like, trucks loaded, dude, we're
Speaker 1: gonna camp in, we're gonna fish, we're gonna make a fire,
Speaker 1: we're gonna go look up on what's up on top
Speaker 1: of that hill. No, you can't because you gotta go
Speaker 1: to t ball. Bullshit, man, a little bullshit? At what
Speaker 1: point does it shift though, Like if as your child ages,
Speaker 1: when they when the child has a passion for something
Speaker 1: that like like what if they just really like baseball?
Speaker 1: Like I don't know, he didn't make the sacrifice. Had
Speaker 1: to do a similar thing. The other day, I was
Speaker 1: telling my kids about the genre of jokes called dirty
Speaker 1: Dan okay, And I told him the layout of a
Speaker 1: dirty Dan joke where they're in class and they have
Speaker 1: and the teachers doing the alphabet and they do a
Speaker 1: letter and the kid has to raise his hand and
Speaker 1: then have a word that starts with the letter and
Speaker 1: then use it in a sentence. And she's like hey
Speaker 1: and run away. Dirty Dance handles up. He's like I
Speaker 1: got it, got it, I got it right. But she
Speaker 1: can't call on him. She's dirty Dance and she knows
Speaker 1: what he's gonna say. So she's like, uh, Susie, and
Speaker 1: she's like apple, my grandmother established an apple orchard, right,
Speaker 1: and she's like beat dirty Dance, like oh right, but
Speaker 1: she's like I know I can't do that. No, he's
Speaker 1: gonna say, and she's like Billy and he's in baseball. So,
Speaker 1: as I was telling the kids. It gets to our
Speaker 1: no one raises their hand, not even Dirty Dan. But
Speaker 1: very slowly, eventually Dirty Dan's hand goes up and she's like, well,
Speaker 1: there's nothing, there's no r there's nothing to do with
Speaker 1: our And so she finally agrees to call on Dirty Dan.
Speaker 1: And I said, I can't tell you what Dirty Dance says, though,
Speaker 1: and we agreed that when they get their learners permit
Speaker 1: to drive, I will tell them what Dirty give them
Speaker 1: the punchline. So now they like to speculate what Derry
Speaker 1: Dan says. I was like, you'll never get You'll never
Speaker 1: get what Dan says. So when they get their learners permit,
Speaker 1: if they choose to participate in weekend sports, I will
Speaker 1: consider it, knowing that they're soon able to drive themselves.
Speaker 1: And if they make it to a championship, I will
Speaker 1: probably go the final championships. It's the doing something, one
Speaker 1: thing that screws up the thing for the whole family
Speaker 1: that the whole family enjoys. It for sure does. Like
Speaker 1: my my brother in law is a is an ex
Speaker 1: professional athlete and his kids are like extremely into sports
Speaker 1: because David is extremely into sports in my opinion, um,
Speaker 1: but their weekends ship. Their week days are cannibalized with
Speaker 1: NonStop sporting events like it's I don't even know how
Speaker 1: they fucking manage it. It just seems like a nightmare
Speaker 1: to me. And I like sports, care about sports, but
Speaker 1: not at this level. It's Truely, I can't tell the
Speaker 1: punch line because Phil, Phil, I'll tell the punch line
Speaker 1: and just bleep, I wipe it out the parts. Okay,
Speaker 1: so Dirty Dance slowly raises his hand and no one
Speaker 1: else raises their hand, and teachers like there's nothing. He
Speaker 1: can totally say it because there's nothing can say. It's
Speaker 1: Dirty Dangles rats big like this, and it's a double joke.
Speaker 1: It's a double joke because that's not even a sentence. Okay, uh,
Speaker 1: do you guys see that I'm a holding news. This
Speaker 1: is where the show is starting, though. This is me
Speaker 1: eat your podcast coming at you, shirtless, severely, bug bitten,
Speaker 1: and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You can't predict
Speaker 1: anything presented by fur like creating proven versatile hunting apparel
Speaker 1: from Marino bass layers to technical outerwear for every hunt,
Speaker 1: First life, Go farther, stay longer. I'm holding a new
Speaker 1: red dot that I gonna put on a shotgun. Um,
Speaker 1: people are gonna think this is a paid advertisement, but
Speaker 1: this is it's not. You just have to trust me.
Speaker 1: Uh guess. With the battery life, it's a vortex what's
Speaker 1: called a spark solar red Dotice just did a big
Speaker 1: video on this the solar. Yeah, did you explain the
Speaker 1: battery life? Yeah? Do you believe it? I do believe it,
Speaker 1: but you have to understand how it works properly before
Speaker 1: you spout out, because it's not just the battery life
Speaker 1: with the conjunction. Yeah, it's a it's a red dot
Speaker 1: with This is a solar panel I gather, but it's
Speaker 1: like not it's it's indiscernible from a northern world. I
Speaker 1: mean it's like a little teeny bigger than a normal
Speaker 1: red dot. Uh. It stays on when you turn around,
Speaker 1: it stays on for fourteen hours. If you move the gun,
Speaker 1: it comes the light comes back on. You can just
Speaker 1: turn If you were to not move your your gun
Speaker 1: for fourteen hours, it would turn off automatically in fourteen hours,
Speaker 1: So that prevents you from leaving the gun in the safe.
Speaker 1: All that's right, Well, they are a night Let me
Speaker 1: try explain something here. Their night we went out. There's
Speaker 1: a thing that I have heard works extraordinarily well, and
Speaker 1: I can now attest you sneak up to a raccoon
Speaker 1: d entry in the dark and set up a caller
Speaker 1: and play a coon fight, which is a crazy noise.
Speaker 1: It's too raccoons. Yeah. So me and Garrett went out
Speaker 1: to a known coon d entry and Sean Weaver was saying,
Speaker 1: when you turn that thing on and get ready, and
Speaker 1: I thought he meant like, you know, kind of get ready.
Speaker 1: We get off to a tree with a red light
Speaker 1: and that coon coller on and turn that coon fight on,
Speaker 1: and holy shit, they just came pouring out one a bore.
Speaker 1: I mean, he come out like there was no time
Speaker 1: to even think. And he's not only out of the hole,
Speaker 1: out of the tree, on the ground, coming at us,
Speaker 1: and I realized I hadn't turned the damn red dot on.
Speaker 1: He goes back, sees us, goes back up, gets worked
Speaker 1: up all over again, and comes back down, at which
Speaker 1: point I had that you're ready for him then, And
Speaker 1: that got me being like, and I even said to Garrett, said,
Speaker 1: if you're using the red diet, yeah, I actually like
Speaker 1: pay attention to what's going on. It's like the only
Speaker 1: you know, if you like spend your whole life, you
Speaker 1: not used like turning your sight on. But and I
Speaker 1: was bitching about it, and so he put this on
Speaker 1: my desk. Where as soon as you move it and
Speaker 1: hunting raccoon's at night. Obviously it's different because there's no sun,
Speaker 1: but hundred fifty thousand hours of runtimely ship with the
Speaker 1: battery in the sun, you buy that ye hundred fifty hours.
Speaker 1: To figure out how many days that is, you'd never
Speaker 1: be able to figure that out. You'd have to divide
Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty thousands in your head. No one's
Speaker 1: going to do that a lot days. It's somewhere around
Speaker 1: seven hundred no weight, No, seven thousand five? Correct? What
Speaker 1: do we got? Somebody? This is amazing. Some things are
Speaker 1: just best. Two hundred and fifty days, I mean years
Speaker 1: of that. How you're getting in now? It's getting ridiculous. No,
Speaker 1: this is interesting. Seventeen point one years on one battery. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's called the spark solar red dot. Yeah, I've got exactly.
Speaker 1: So I want to make sure every fortnight everybody understands
Speaker 1: that that is up to by using like a lot
Speaker 1: of ambient uh, you know solar power like Arizona and
Speaker 1: late like if you're if you're only hunting coons at night, Uh,
Speaker 1: it's probably going to be closer to like thirty thousand,
Speaker 1: which is with the red dots that you know I
Speaker 1: both use the venom. That's what their battery life is.
Speaker 1: Still very impressed. Yeah, yeah, this is like how um
Speaker 1: e vs like range. It's like four fifty miles and
Speaker 1: you're like if you're driving very slow downhill the whole way,
Speaker 1: like yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Um, one more question about
Speaker 1: this thing. Uh, it's not running is it? Is it
Speaker 1: storing solar? No? Oh so it's like actually like running
Speaker 1: on solar. So it's just basically not in the battery. Said,
Speaker 1: thus the battery life is that's a surprise matter. You're
Speaker 1: you're putting a Joe blow Walgreen's coin battery in there.
Speaker 1: I was like, how's that? Okay? Yeah, it's running m automatically,
Speaker 1: which is the cool part. Right, it's just always using
Speaker 1: the solar that's available to it if it can. Okay,
Speaker 1: now that we're really starting to show joined by Kevin Gillespie,
Speaker 1: we're arguing about this dr day. Do you like a
Speaker 1: jug or a guh, it's a guy. It's definitely not
Speaker 1: a job. I don't think that's right, like my parents
Speaker 1: or grandparents decided it. And I don't really get to
Speaker 1: weigh in because well, I've had this conversation hard times
Speaker 1: that Clay. I don't think Clay knows what his last
Speaker 1: name is. What do you think his last name is?
Speaker 1: His last day's Newcombe? He thinks it's Newcomb. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: not your last name, says I think that. I think
Speaker 1: that's called um regional dialect accent. But you go with
Speaker 1: a gun. I was arguing and it's and it's yeah,
Speaker 1: exactly gun, not gil not yet I had a person
Speaker 1: doing a job. Yeah, a lot of people do Gillespie
Speaker 1: j and an hard eye shut that ship down hard
Speaker 1: and then periodically people in t s a pronounce it Giuseppi.
Speaker 1: But I'm not really sure that's like that points to
Speaker 1: larger issues. It's not really my name being the problem.
Speaker 1: I like that as a nickname though, totally. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: me and all of my Italian heritage. Yeah, you just
Speaker 1: called me just Seppi Brody Anderson. Hello, fixing to say
Speaker 1: something divisive among the dog lovers of the world. Oh,
Speaker 1: I got something for you. What we'll do it later.
Speaker 1: That's something that came to mind the other day. Philarant Uh,
Speaker 1: just the divesters here Midwestern Chester, the midwester Seth Morrison
Speaker 1: and our very own beloved honest Hotels. Who's gonna fill
Speaker 1: in about his whole journey of discovery about heavy asked arrows?
Speaker 1: Is that a great good way to put it? Oh,
Speaker 1: we can go down that rabbit hole if you if
Speaker 1: you like, no, we'll get to it. We're gonna get
Speaker 1: to a hardcore. But we gotta do a few things
Speaker 1: up top, all right, we gotta. We gotta like speed Demon,
Speaker 1: speed Demon through a lot of stuffs. We allow stuff
Speaker 1: to get after you guys. Ready, here's one. The Meat
Speaker 1: Podcast is smarter than doctors. That's right. You heard it right.
Speaker 1: A guy uh was eating some venison with his family
Speaker 1: eating it very rare. Whole family gets sick. He gets
Speaker 1: to thinking about the symptomology lethargy, very high fever, chills,
Speaker 1: body aches, headaches. He's like, I feel like I heard
Speaker 1: about this on Meat Eater Podcast. I think I got toxoplasmosis.
Speaker 1: Can't scratch fever cat scrash fever calls the doctor, doctor, like,
Speaker 1: you can't get that off, dear meat, and he's like,
Speaker 1: you want to bet I learned it on the podcast.
Speaker 1: Turns out they all had toxico plasmosis. He could have died.
Speaker 1: Another guy wrote in he was in Florida, of all places,
Speaker 1: on a long run, long boat run, fishing tuna, long
Speaker 1: wet ride. Uh. All of a sudden, his body inexplicably
Speaker 1: is acting real weird and he's like, this reminds me
Speaker 1: of the story I heard about the caribou hunting guide
Speaker 1: on meetators Close Calls audiobook. And he was able to
Speaker 1: diagnose the guy, and sure enough, the guy was having
Speaker 1: in Florida where you'd never expected. His buddy had gotten
Speaker 1: his clothes to wet and was in hypothermia so bad
Speaker 1: he became incoherent. But he recognized that. He's like, I
Speaker 1: could think, I know what's happened to this guy. Huh. So,
Speaker 1: if you just feel like you're sitting around your thumb
Speaker 1: and your arts right now, you're actually learning how to
Speaker 1: save lives. Yeah, if you haven't, if you haven't listened
Speaker 1: to those close call stories, you're missing out. Um South Dakota.
Speaker 1: This has been going on for a while, but just
Speaker 1: a quick reminder. We keep talking about you know, it
Speaker 1: comes up all the time for prices affecting you know,
Speaker 1: meso predator populations and like raccoon and skunk prices being
Speaker 1: really low. So we're seeing this like dramatic upswing over
Speaker 1: the last few decades and meso predators and what that
Speaker 1: means for predation on duck ness and all that. South Dakota.
Speaker 1: This is contentious, is all get out. South Dakota is
Speaker 1: opening up a bounty program. They've been talking about it.
Speaker 1: They're doing it. Kids get their own bounty season. Man,
Speaker 1: this would be great if I would love it if
Speaker 1: I was there with my kids. Kids get an exclusive
Speaker 1: headstart period starting on March one for a month. Uh raccoons,
Speaker 1: striped skunks, badgers, a possums, and red fox Ten bucks
Speaker 1: per tay, that's cool. Jimmy would be all over that. Oh,
Speaker 1: he'd make a killing. Participants must submit the tailbone and
Speaker 1: entire tail to receive payment. Nine bucks for the tails
Speaker 1: per household. I'd like to know why it's that number.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Regular South Dakota residents April one to
Speaker 1: July one. See how they're timing it for nesting April one,
Speaker 1: July one. Obviously very contentious. It was, I should point
Speaker 1: out just to be fair to history here it was
Speaker 1: bounty programs intended to eliminate predators that we have to
Speaker 1: thank for the fact that we eliminated the mountain lion
Speaker 1: across its range. He's destroyed the grizzly bear across the
Speaker 1: lower forty eight, removed black bears for a time across
Speaker 1: a massive part of their range. Um and modern day
Speaker 1: bounties have proven to be pretty ineffective way of dealing
Speaker 1: with coyotes. So they're going out on a limb here.
Speaker 1: And as Sean pointed out in a recent Duck report,
Speaker 1: to do this kind of work, it has to be
Speaker 1: done in a very focused way, Like you asked me, like,
Speaker 1: do does kyote control work for fawn crops? Right? And
Speaker 1: researchers will tell you yes if. And it has to
Speaker 1: do with when you're doing it, how you're doing it.
Speaker 1: It's done with like when when done with a high
Speaker 1: level of precision, like timing wise spatially wise in a
Speaker 1: certain way, it can have an impact. Randomly done um,
Speaker 1: not as much, but looks like that's happening if I
Speaker 1: live to state where it was happening. If I look
Speaker 1: in the state where they were kicking it around, I
Speaker 1: would be like, let's think about this for another second.
Speaker 1: But if I was living in a state where it
Speaker 1: did happen, I would and I wouldn't. I would get
Speaker 1: my kids into it. Yeah, this particular program is let's
Speaker 1: take advantage of the situation. You make a little jingle, Okay, Brodie,
Speaker 1: quick pen raise pheasants. Why the hubbub um? In Montana,
Speaker 1: there's been a bill proposed by a politician, it's a
Speaker 1: state representative, uh HB six thirty seven, which includes some
Speaker 1: like other stuff that people are pretty fired up about.
Speaker 1: But what we're focused on here is the proposal to
Speaker 1: spend one million dollars to stock penn raised pheasants, you know,
Speaker 1: around Montana from the state prison. That's right, Um, And
Speaker 1: that's a question. First off, they're already stock pheasants. If
Speaker 1: they didn't stock peasants, wouldn't be peasants here there from China.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, okay, yeah, but this is would be a
Speaker 1: program to go and release I don't know how many pheasants.
Speaker 1: I'm assuming a million dollars, we'll get to quite a
Speaker 1: few of them. Um, half of the money would come
Speaker 1: from license sales and half from Pittman Robinson Robertson Fund,
Speaker 1: which is all that stuff generally works like that usually
Speaker 1: comes as matching, so that that's like money that's already
Speaker 1: been earmarked for FWP for wildlife conservation, hunting and fishing,
Speaker 1: you know, improvements things like that access. UM, And this
Speaker 1: proposal is to take a million million bucks and and
Speaker 1: start a pen raised bird release program in Montana, like
Speaker 1: not meant to establish a population, but just to put
Speaker 1: birds on the ground. And it's being done as it's
Speaker 1: being done to boost our three efforts. UM, I'm not
Speaker 1: sure how you know releasing birds translates to recruiting more
Speaker 1: hunters in a state that has extremely good wild peasant hunting.
Speaker 1: Extremely good pheasants are extremely good hunting for other upland species,
Speaker 1: Like there's what four species of grouse here, hungarian partridge,
Speaker 1: So there's there's all kinds of upland opportunities that already exist.
Speaker 1: So there there's some questions about whether this is a
Speaker 1: good use of always easy and this is easy. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm saying that'd be the argument, right, But the other
Speaker 1: argument is you're paying a million dollars to feed coyotes, bobcats, boxes,
Speaker 1: raptors because these farm raised birds have no survival skills.
Speaker 1: So a lot of people are pretty fired up because
Speaker 1: they feel like this is, you know, a waste of money,
Speaker 1: and that perhaps a better way to spend a million
Speaker 1: dollars in a better way to bring in more hunters
Speaker 1: would be to spend it on access programs or improving
Speaker 1: habitat uh where you know, for pheasant hunting that would
Speaker 1: also benefit a whole bunch of other wildlife. Maybe, like,
Speaker 1: maybe investing a million dollars is better than just flushing
Speaker 1: a million bucks down the drain with some pen raised
Speaker 1: birds that are gonna be dead very quickly. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: also think, and we've explored this in a lot of facets,
Speaker 1: I also think, like considering COVID, I just don't think
Speaker 1: that that activities for to spend agency money or habitat
Speaker 1: money on things that have the sole purpose of growing
Speaker 1: hunter numbers seems unnecessary at the moment. Well, I think
Speaker 1: it's all it's a popular way to get something done,
Speaker 1: right because it sounds good. Like if you if you're
Speaker 1: if you're a politician angling to get something like this done,
Speaker 1: you throw the R three thing and it's hard to
Speaker 1: like argue against. But I mean, like why not just
Speaker 1: like put a million bucks into habitat exactly which is
Speaker 1: gonna just have a because long lasting benefit for buying
Speaker 1: I could see it, Like I could definitely see it
Speaker 1: like buying a million bucks with the birds to sort
Speaker 1: of like foe hunt them, like to kind of like
Speaker 1: have a pretend hunt. It's like it's like I see
Speaker 1: what I did for hunters kind of thing, you know. Um,
Speaker 1: But I like I'd like to clarify, like this isn't fish,
Speaker 1: wildlife and parks that like a lot of people like
Speaker 1: to drag their state game agencies through the mud for
Speaker 1: doing ship they don't agree with. This is not that.
Speaker 1: This is a bill that's being proposed that that f
Speaker 1: w P would then have to follow through on if
Speaker 1: it if it passes, and there was a comment period
Speaker 1: that's closed and now it's whatever. Yeah, yeah, so we'll
Speaker 1: find out hopefully. Okay, moving on a little news from
Speaker 1: New Mexico. This is good news from New Mexico. This
Speaker 1: has been a thing that's going on for a long time.
Speaker 1: Has to do a stream axis. So as we all know,
Speaker 1: a lot of states whatever imagine you're on a river.
Speaker 1: Take a big river where it's true everywhere. May iagine
Speaker 1: you're floating down the Mississippi River. Right as you're floating
Speaker 1: down the Mississippi River, you are not expecting that someone
Speaker 1: would run out of their house and come say, hey,
Speaker 1: you're on my land. You'd say, oh, no, I'm in
Speaker 1: the river. Okay. That's like an extreme version because we all,
Speaker 1: of course, everyone knows you can float down the Mississippi
Speaker 1: River without needing to get permission from someone. But in
Speaker 1: some states, as rivers get smaller and smaller and smaller,
Speaker 1: you get to a point where you cannot float down
Speaker 1: the river or walk along the river or whatever in
Speaker 1: the water without securing permission from the landowner. Inevitably you
Speaker 1: will have landowners who don't like looking out their window
Speaker 1: and seeing some scruffy whatever, or a bunch of people
Speaker 1: on a floating trip, drink a beer, whatever, fishing. They
Speaker 1: don't want to see it. They're like, how can I
Speaker 1: own the banks? But some dirt bag can float down
Speaker 1: through my property? And so they will always seek ways
Speaker 1: to reduce your stream access and to argue that Unlike
Speaker 1: the Mississippi River, where there's like interstate commerce happening. This
Speaker 1: isn't a commerce river. I don't want people just recreating
Speaker 1: in front of my house. I want them out of here. Um.
Speaker 1: In New Mexico, there had always been an understood stream
Speaker 1: access rule walk in below the high water be like
Speaker 1: you stay below the high water mark, you can fish,
Speaker 1: float whatever. It's always been understood, but it hadn't been
Speaker 1: like popular pop properly codified into law. Now we've had
Speaker 1: Senator Martin Heinrich from New Mexico on this show to
Speaker 1: talk about this this issue. It's like it's sort of
Speaker 1: in the spirit of the law in New Mexico. It's
Speaker 1: always been understood to be true, but certain well healed
Speaker 1: landowners have been pushing to narrow those definitions and lock
Speaker 1: up more streams than rivers as private property for themselves.
Speaker 1: Just the other day, New Mexico's Supreme Court ruled that
Speaker 1: the states listen to what I'm gonna stay carefully. New
Speaker 1: Mexico Supreme Court ruled that the state's game commissioned decision
Speaker 1: allowing landowners to restrict access to water that flows through
Speaker 1: their property is unconstitutional. Shut that's a clock. That's a
Speaker 1: hard sentence to follow. The Game Commission to come out
Speaker 1: and said, yes, if a landowner wants to challenge stream
Speaker 1: access on their own private stream and make it their
Speaker 1: own private little deal, no one can float through their fish.
Speaker 1: They can push for that with the state. They can
Speaker 1: go to the state and ask for that exemption. The
Speaker 1: Supreme Court came in and just nipped that whole conversation
Speaker 1: in the bud. They're like, your decision to let people
Speaker 1: argue that is unconstitutional. So dreams where you're hanging out
Speaker 1: right now, floating, kayaking, canoeing, rafting, waiting in the water. Um,
Speaker 1: there's been a block in the road for people looking
Speaker 1: to ah cut you off of that and and restrict
Speaker 1: access to places you've traditionally enjoyed it. So now, Brodie,
Speaker 1: it's like Montana just but I think that had been
Speaker 1: they were trying to find a path to make it,
Speaker 1: not that they're trying to like this should just seal
Speaker 1: the deal for a while. Yeah, and the same thing
Speaker 1: had been true. I don't don't want get too like
Speaker 1: Montana centric people, but it's a great it's a great
Speaker 1: case point. Years ago it had been understood in Montana
Speaker 1: and some people were tolling with undoing it. It comes
Speaker 1: up every so often, and some people like very deliberate.
Speaker 1: There's a great story about this because some people you
Speaker 1: know now and then you'll like push something in order
Speaker 1: to like push it to get to the courts. Uh.
Speaker 1: When they tested it in Montana, instead of having Fisherman,
Speaker 1: they had I think it was like they had a
Speaker 1: bunch of girls from a high school go float down
Speaker 1: a river in tubes through a landowner that kept trying
Speaker 1: to get people sited for floating down what he argued
Speaker 1: was a private stream, and everybody would float the stream
Speaker 1: all the time. So like we're not gonna take it
Speaker 1: to court with Fisherman're gonna take it to court with
Speaker 1: like high school girls. The girls getting their tubes float through,
Speaker 1: the guy calls cops, Cops give him a citation, It
Speaker 1: goes to and it comes out codified and law that
Speaker 1: like it was codified, like as everybody understood it to
Speaker 1: be true. They just wanted to like push it to
Speaker 1: a point where it was tested in the courts. As
Speaker 1: Senator Heindrich explained, it's widely understood in New Mexico that
Speaker 1: we have open stream access, but there are people always
Speaker 1: like dicking around, Well maybe we can try this, well,
Speaker 1: maybe you can try that. When you look at this stuff,
Speaker 1: it always comes from a be Like a wealthy person
Speaker 1: buys land, they buy a luxury property, they buy some
Speaker 1: old ranch, and the first thing on their mind is
Speaker 1: getting rid of the assholes who come flow. It's always
Speaker 1: that way. Yeah, I've got I've got a well, you know,
Speaker 1: I got We've got a buddy who sells large, kind
Speaker 1: of large ranches. And uh, those real estate agents very
Speaker 1: much against stream access because you know, it's a lot
Speaker 1: easier to sell a ranch if you can say three
Speaker 1: miles of Trout River. It sells a hell of a
Speaker 1: lot better. Um. Back to the Montana desk, we reported
Speaker 1: about how Governor Genforte in Montana recently got in trouble.
Speaker 1: It's kind of funny story. I'll relay the story, even
Speaker 1: though we recovered it already. One day someone hands me
Speaker 1: I find a headline that says Montana's governor kills a
Speaker 1: yellow Stone wolf, and I think to myself, wow, um,
Speaker 1: that is extremely surprising that our state's governor went and
Speaker 1: a Yellowstone National Park and shot a wolf. Like you'd
Speaker 1: think he'd know better. But you read the article and
Speaker 1: in fact he didn't. It was on a ranch, it
Speaker 1: was on private property. Why was it Yelsa wolf, Because
Speaker 1: it's safe to assume that in that wolve's life it
Speaker 1: had been on the park. And there there's a contingent
Speaker 1: of Americans and their significant to like to think that
Speaker 1: anything that spends some part of its life in mynd
Speaker 1: in Yelsa National Park becomes yellow Stones X, and therefore
Speaker 1: we should enjoy this sort of like de facto protection
Speaker 1: no matter where it goes, like it carries with it
Speaker 1: this sort of like this specific blessing and should be
Speaker 1: preserved forever. So Montana's Governor Greg Jane four to in
Speaker 1: the news again. This time again he's made, uh what
Speaker 1: would appear to be a horrible mistake. Yani has the
Speaker 1: headline pulled up. Here's a headline. It's from the Climate
Speaker 1: and Environment Desk, oddly Washington Post Washington Posts Climate and
Speaker 1: Environment Desk. The headline is hounds chased a Yellowstone National
Speaker 1: Park mountain lion into a tree. Then Montana Governor Greg
Speaker 1: Ganforte shot it. Except not he was hunting on national
Speaker 1: forest land, not in the park. It's like except not
Speaker 1: the like I I don't like to say it, because
Speaker 1: it became such thing like the fake news ship. It's like,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Like I'm not I don't run around the
Speaker 1: fake news fake news, but you have to have some
Speaker 1: sympathy for people who run around being fake news fake
Speaker 1: news because it's just not true. It's not true at all.
Speaker 1: It's like, how can you say that? Yeah, listen, and
Speaker 1: I am one that usually will air on the side
Speaker 1: of a liberal news source, and I will personally trust
Speaker 1: it more. Yeah, and and people like this, I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna I'm not gonna call this guy out by his name.
Speaker 1: You can go find out who wrote it. But it's
Speaker 1: just like, man, like you're eroting my trust in like
Speaker 1: what I figured it should be, like good journalism from
Speaker 1: like you know, the um key journalistic entities of our country,
Speaker 1: and yet here he is just like like I when
Speaker 1: I ask the guy, I wish he would come on
Speaker 1: the podcast and just be like, why did you write this?
Speaker 1: What was your goal here? Why did you word it
Speaker 1: the way you worded it? But yeah, well that's the beginning.
Speaker 1: But then the rest of it is like what's the
Speaker 1: outcome of your article? Like what like are you just
Speaker 1: an anti hunter or you just an anti Greg? There's
Speaker 1: also so much that's loaded into that hounds chase cat
Speaker 1: up tree as though that doesn't happen as part of
Speaker 1: cat hunting or using houndste there's this you mean it,
Speaker 1: there's this strong situation that something naughty was going on,
Speaker 1: and then it goes on to talk about how rare.
Speaker 1: Then they do a disservice by time, like they get
Speaker 1: like park officials to talk about how rare mountain lion
Speaker 1: sighting is. There are a lot of things that are
Speaker 1: i u c N species of least concern, like globally
Speaker 1: categorized by a global Wildlife organization as a species of
Speaker 1: least concern that you don't lay eyes on because of
Speaker 1: myriad reasons. How many martins do you see? Most people
Speaker 1: will go their entire life and never lay eyes on
Speaker 1: the martin. Why because they're out at night and they're secretive.
Speaker 1: They don't even know they exist i u c N
Speaker 1: species of least concerned. But the whole like the condemning
Speaker 1: part about this article is that these these jokers from
Speaker 1: the park don't see that many lions. Tell them what
Speaker 1: you heard from actual park biologist Yohni. Why might they
Speaker 1: not be seeing a lot of lions in the park. Well,
Speaker 1: it wasn't from park biologists. It was from hound handlers
Speaker 1: that helped park biologists that are helping right now with
Speaker 1: the probably the study that is they're talking about in
Speaker 1: this article right they've got collared mountain lions and these
Speaker 1: hound handlers help them catch collar recatch when the collars
Speaker 1: go down, etcetera, etcetera. So they're a big part of
Speaker 1: this study. But and you can read about this in
Speaker 1: a wonderful article that was written on the meter UH
Speaker 1: website by Jordan Stiller's titled study show mounta Lions have
Speaker 1: Unexpected predator where they're basically showing saying that like mount
Speaker 1: lion numbers have dropped by half and like the last
Speaker 1: ten years in the park because wolves not only do
Speaker 1: they kill in um, they don't think they kill them
Speaker 1: to eat them, but they just kill them because they're
Speaker 1: like competition mountain lion kittens. But that because they're um
Speaker 1: displacing the elk out of where they used to be,
Speaker 1: where they accessible by mountain lions being like more in
Speaker 1: the mountains in forested areas, pushing them out into more
Speaker 1: open areas where cats do not like to spend time
Speaker 1: and and don't go um that the cats are having
Speaker 1: a much harder time, you know, finding and and and
Speaker 1: then killing their prey. Um. On top of that, the
Speaker 1: wolves steal the kills that they made, so they're getting
Speaker 1: hit like three ways. They're getting at, their foods, getting displaced,
Speaker 1: and their food is getting stolen exactly by the wolves,
Speaker 1: which leads me to believe I want to clarify to like,
Speaker 1: just like is your point out? I want to clarify too.
Speaker 1: I don't agree with everything that our governor does. I
Speaker 1: don't think this has anything to do with that. It's
Speaker 1: just a way that stuff gets reported. That's maddening to me.
Speaker 1: And it's like again and again and again. But you
Speaker 1: take this thing with like how mountain lion numbers have
Speaker 1: gone down as wolves. I'm not and I'm not saying
Speaker 1: I support wolves on the landscape. I'm not anti wolf.
Speaker 1: But why didn't this person write an article when when
Speaker 1: G and four take killed a wolf? Why didn't he
Speaker 1: write an article about what a nice thing he did
Speaker 1: for mountain lions? Or could you could have made a
Speaker 1: salacious headline, you could have taken as many liberties and
Speaker 1: said uh. Montana's Governor Greg Ganforte saves many Yellowstone National
Speaker 1: Park mountain lions and he'd like, oh, that's interesting, and
Speaker 1: he'd really be like, oh, he killed a wolf. I'll
Speaker 1: tell you what. I'll tell you what though, he should
Speaker 1: consider it, like maybe not shooting collared animals, like because
Speaker 1: because the attention it draws, sure, and like he could
Speaker 1: have walked up to that line and said he's got
Speaker 1: a collar on it. Maybe I should just let that
Speaker 1: one go for science purposes, like you know, and then
Speaker 1: go find another line, like I'm just playing devil, right.
Speaker 1: They immediately reported, they immediately called a game warden. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you'll point this out too. Here's why you don't really
Speaker 1: know that because remember when Florida was doing a mortality
Speaker 1: study on deer and he had a bunch of deer
Speaker 1: run around with collars. It was a mortality study and
Speaker 1: the state was trying to implore people, don't shoot it
Speaker 1: cause it has a collar. Don't not shoot it because
Speaker 1: it has a collar. I'm trying to find out what
Speaker 1: kills stuff. Just try to act normal. I'm just saying,
Speaker 1: if you're poking around near the borders of Yellowstone National
Speaker 1: Park and there's a wolf for a line with a collar,
Speaker 1: and you're the governor, yeah, I could see. I would personally,
Speaker 1: it would just depend on a lot of things unless
Speaker 1: I knew what the collering project was all about. And
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know what they do because
Speaker 1: a lot of times the stuff that's wearing a collar
Speaker 1: and it's not good anymore, they don't even care. It's
Speaker 1: like it's a collar from years ago. They haven't they
Speaker 1: haven't retranked it to pull the collar or putt new
Speaker 1: batteries that I don't know enough about it. I personally,
Speaker 1: I've said a thousand times on this podcast at least
Speaker 1: three Um, I'm I like a banded duck more than
Speaker 1: the next guy. But I would not shoot a banded
Speaker 1: big game animal with a collar on it because it
Speaker 1: would feel like touched. It wouldn't feel it would feel
Speaker 1: like it had already been. Uh, it was like less
Speaker 1: magical and wild. So if you were called in a
Speaker 1: big six point bowl and the Missouri River breaks and
Speaker 1: he's standing there broadside with your bow, you wouldn't shoot
Speaker 1: him and he had if he had a caller on it.
Speaker 1: Big bull sixty, Yeah, unless three of them and one
Speaker 1: had a collar and the bigger one didn't. My thing
Speaker 1: is like, I don't know, there's a lot of things
Speaker 1: that are like even cheap are introduced, and they've been reintroduced, reintroduced.
Speaker 1: Excuse me, um, you know, like in that population has
Speaker 1: been touched in a way. We're influencing everything basically humans.
Speaker 1: I think, just like like you said, just being normal
Speaker 1: and doing what you would normally do when you you know,
Speaker 1: when you're hunting. Not letting that influence too much because
Speaker 1: that study at the very point that study that they're
Speaker 1: putting collars on they want to see how many are
Speaker 1: killed by hunters. We don't know that what you think right, Well,
Speaker 1: in the case of this Florida dear thing, I don't
Speaker 1: know why this thing had a Colorado. It might have
Speaker 1: been a mortality study. If it's a mortality study, um,
Speaker 1: and it was a big time, then whoever put that
Speaker 1: collar on it, it's probably glad. They probably got their
Speaker 1: collar back now they know. If it was some other study,
Speaker 1: they might be like, damn it, it's expensive to get
Speaker 1: the collars out. We got the collar out. But in
Speaker 1: the case in my sheep hunt, like I had multiple
Speaker 1: people that we're working on these this herd that we're
Speaker 1: calling them and had just recently collared them. So the
Speaker 1: study had just kicked off, and they very very nicely
Speaker 1: but implored me not to shoot at one with the
Speaker 1: collar on it because just because of the hours it
Speaker 1: had taken to get all that worked on, the money
Speaker 1: invested in it, and in the end they're like, look,
Speaker 1: it's your tag, it's not a lead, have at it.
Speaker 1: But it would be great if you shot one without
Speaker 1: a collar. It's very species dependent to where you're at. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I feel like this is this is in my mind,
Speaker 1: it's a relevant story because it's like you have a person,
Speaker 1: like you have a person he's in a high profile position,
Speaker 1: you have he there's a person that enjoys going hunting,
Speaker 1: goes out and does something and nothing happens. Like he
Speaker 1: goes out and does something like according to law and
Speaker 1: as set up by the Game Commission, you know, as
Speaker 1: enforced by the Montana state thing, and it has to
Speaker 1: be reported upon it as though you did something wrong.
Speaker 1: And the wolf thing, it was reported that he did
Speaker 1: something wrong, but it was reported like he tried. If
Speaker 1: you get a normal trapping license in Montana, it's just
Speaker 1: an over the counter transaction. If you're gonna trap wolves,
Speaker 1: you need to go online and take a free you
Speaker 1: watch this free online video. He hadn't watched the he
Speaker 1: hadn't done the online video, the Wolf certification online video.
Speaker 1: There's no fine for it. It's a free video. He
Speaker 1: hadn't watched the video was told to go watch the video.
Speaker 1: You'd have thought, you know, I thought it was presented.
Speaker 1: You thought there had been like some heinous violation. There
Speaker 1: was a minor violation. And then if you went and
Speaker 1: people are like shocked at the how low the punishment was.
Speaker 1: But then the wardens are like, no, the punishment is
Speaker 1: perfectly in keeping with what we do. When you don't
Speaker 1: watch the video, you gonta watch the video. I thought
Speaker 1: you couldn't get it tag Now, like when you're getting
Speaker 1: those licenses without doing like you gotta do that video.
Speaker 1: You have to get Wolf vetano that hasn't gone to
Speaker 1: effect yet. You'd have to get a Wolf validation. You
Speaker 1: get the Wolf validation by doing the free online thing.
Speaker 1: The guy had not done the online thing, which is
Speaker 1: against the law, and was called out for such in
Speaker 1: this case. And I'm not saying like, I'm not serious
Speaker 1: to be like he should not have watched the video.
Speaker 1: Of course he should have watched the video. And it's
Speaker 1: fair to point it out, but in this case, nothing happened,
Speaker 1: and it's this thing. It's like it's like the thing
Speaker 1: that like it's like a thing coming from the media
Speaker 1: where in certain circles, like if it involves Yellowstone and
Speaker 1: if it involves wildlife, it's just this this, this idea
Speaker 1: that seems to be growing and spreading that, um, while
Speaker 1: the state management of wildlife is bad and naughty and
Speaker 1: it should be managed by the National Park Service. I
Speaker 1: don't even know if people understand that. I mean, I
Speaker 1: totally agree with Yanni. I don't even I don't even
Speaker 1: know if people understand it to that extent, and they've
Speaker 1: made such a nuanced argument in their mind. I think sadly,
Speaker 1: there's it's it's not even that it's misleading and biased.
Speaker 1: It's like I would I would really hope that various
Speaker 1: media sources can cover information like this in a more
Speaker 1: educational way. So, for example, same story NBC News Tim Fitzimmons,
Speaker 1: the headline is Montana Governor Gen Forte hunts kills National
Speaker 1: Park Service tract mountain lions, and then you can go
Speaker 1: through his article, um, and it just seems to serve
Speaker 1: up information that is educational I don't even think that
Speaker 1: that that that headline doesn't bother me. There's a there's
Speaker 1: a there's an extra grind, but at least it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's I would give him like a high, a much
Speaker 1: higher fairness and headlines. Right, It's like, what is information
Speaker 1: being relayed versus what is a headline whose language um
Speaker 1: is just kind of twists or has a backstory or
Speaker 1: kind of colors or ship something in a way it
Speaker 1: has a purpose? Right? What else pisses me off about it? Now?
Speaker 1: I mean to go on all night about it. Day
Speaker 1: it's just lit like night. Like I said, we have
Speaker 1: a lighting issue. It's all lamplet in here. I'm getting
Speaker 1: like thirst for beer. It's not beard feels like a board,
Speaker 1: don't night so um. He also says that it prompting
Speaker 1: an outcry among environmentalists. Those aren't environmentalists. What you're talking
Speaker 1: about our animal rights activists. And I would really appreciate
Speaker 1: people not confuse those two things they have overlap. They're
Speaker 1: not the same thing. Not the same thing. No, no,
Speaker 1: but listen, listen, I think we we do. I would
Speaker 1: like to just point out that out of all the
Speaker 1: critters in this lovely state, that we reside in the
Speaker 1: hunt in Uh, there's probably none other that are managed
Speaker 1: more than mountain lions. Oh um. Yeah, it's so much
Speaker 1: so that people don't even bother because they can't understand
Speaker 1: the regulatory structure. Body. I mean, every morning that I
Speaker 1: go out to like even just go look for tracks,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna check the quota in the region that I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go in and see where it's at. Some of
Speaker 1: them are like a total quota where it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: ten total can be killed. That's a high one. It's
Speaker 1: probably more like, you know, between five and seven and
Speaker 1: most but some of them are like, oh it's seven,
Speaker 1: but only three can be females. Some of them is
Speaker 1: completely opposite where it's seven but only four can be males.
Speaker 1: And like you've really got to know what's going on.
Speaker 1: They're they're almost managing them like by the hour or
Speaker 1: the day like that closely. You know, they're keeping such
Speaker 1: a close eye on them. Yeah, whereas deer you got
Speaker 1: a damn gas station by a deer license. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: even like bears, you know over the counter tag here.
Speaker 1: You know, there's like one small place in Montana where
Speaker 1: there's a quota and they should especially not be hacking
Speaker 1: on I don't mean to be like, oh, like pro Montana,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I guess I don't mind. But here's
Speaker 1: the thing they should be hacking on this day, because
Speaker 1: there's a lot of states to still run lion. They
Speaker 1: still manage lions as vermin Texas. I think they still
Speaker 1: manage lions like they have like no management plan on lions.
Speaker 1: They still got like kill them all that God sort
Speaker 1: them out attitude. In this state for decade just managed
Speaker 1: them as it like a tightly managed big game animal,
Speaker 1: which gives which is like way better for if you
Speaker 1: if you like mountain lions and you like what I
Speaker 1: could be like hunting lions, like seeing lions, I would
Speaker 1: applaud a state that runs them like a big game animal,
Speaker 1: not a state that runs them like coyotes. In a
Speaker 1: lot of places in the Southwest still treat them with
Speaker 1: about the same they treat with the same matterite they
Speaker 1: treat coyotes. They don't track it, they don't know what's
Speaker 1: going on. Huge seasons used to be able to shoot
Speaker 1: like a female with kids. Here's here's where it all
Speaker 1: comes back around. Here's where it all comes back around.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get to that story because it's a good one.
Speaker 1: You're gonna love my mountain lion story. But it all
Speaker 1: comes back around too. If we didn't have hound handlers
Speaker 1: that were interested in in mountain lions, they're probably there,
Speaker 1: maybe wouldn't be any not only in Montana, but in
Speaker 1: the park itself, because as we heard from Jim Williams,
Speaker 1: go and listen to the podcast, I love it. It's
Speaker 1: one of my favorites. Number of the puma Jim Williams,
Speaker 1: who worked for Montana Sate for a long time, maybe
Speaker 1: one of the world's leading exactly, might not be anybody
Speaker 1: that's messed around with cats of all kinds more than
Speaker 1: he has. He said it in the podcast. If it
Speaker 1: wasn't for the hound handlers of Montana, that probably wouldn't
Speaker 1: be cats here. Get lucky enough to see one in
Speaker 1: the park or outside of the park or wherever. Thank
Speaker 1: those people that every now and then chase the hounds
Speaker 1: chase went into a tree, and then and then someone
Speaker 1: comes and kills it. More times than not they get
Speaker 1: chased into a tree, everybody looks at it, takes a picture,
Speaker 1: and everybody walks away. Uh. To paraphrase the guests you're
Speaker 1: talking about he's not a lion hunter, but the paraphrase,
Speaker 1: but he said, he's like basically, I tread real light
Speaker 1: when it comes to hack and on Houndsman, because it
Speaker 1: was Houndsman that were sounding the alarm a long time
Speaker 1: ago about the need to manage mountain lions and get
Speaker 1: out of the business of bounty hunting. I'm poison and
Speaker 1: I'm killing them. They were the ones that wanted up.
Speaker 1: They were the ones saying, man, we gotta get grip
Speaker 1: on the program and protect lions for for for punishment.
Speaker 1: For this guy having such a dumb headline, he should
Speaker 1: he Probably the thing is he didn't write that headline.
Speaker 1: Whoever did the headline, they should be tasked to write
Speaker 1: an article for every elk, every one of Yellowstones elk
Speaker 1: that gets killed legally in Montana every year. He get
Speaker 1: writers cramped and then he spent the rest of his
Speaker 1: life just writing articles about people shooting legal elk. Yeah,
Speaker 1: every day of the season. He had to be like,
Speaker 1: hundreds of Yellowstone elk killed over in Cody, Wyoming. There
Speaker 1: just needs to be a little bit more education in,
Speaker 1: you know, among those folks writing headlines from the environmental
Speaker 1: and climate desk. Yeah, well that makes me bad because
Speaker 1: I'm an environmentalist. Uh, I self identify as an environmentalist,
Speaker 1: and I just I just it just kills me to
Speaker 1: see this frame in that way. All right, speaking of
Speaker 1: mountain lions, Yohnning. Now we're digging in on Johnny here.
Speaker 1: Let me let me start with a Here's I want
Speaker 1: to start with this question? Has play Phil play the
Speaker 1: Mingus song Trampled by Turtles inga has Mingus? Um, gimme
Speaker 1: Mingus is current resume. He's currently been under approximately a
Speaker 1: dozen ten to a dozen if you count all all
Speaker 1: of them. But yeah, roughly a dozen trees with mountain
Speaker 1: lions in them, which means you have Yeah, that's pretty
Speaker 1: that's great. Now when you start to you know, purposely
Speaker 1: pursue it, you know, more often than just once when
Speaker 1: you just were making a show about it with your buddy,
Speaker 1: then yeah, you start to see him more. Are you
Speaker 1: beyond the holy shit? It's the tree face a little bit,
Speaker 1: but not too much, not too much. Yeah, you still
Speaker 1: get like like like by god. Yeah, but I would
Speaker 1: say that the reason being that I don't quite you know,
Speaker 1: I'm not as fascinated by that line as much anymore
Speaker 1: is because the attention of my dog. My dog's taking
Speaker 1: my attention because I'm there. I'm like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: my dog's there at the bottom of that tree. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and he's like, no, he like sees the line, he's
Speaker 1: barking the line. He's doing what he's supposed to be doing.
Speaker 1: And but no, I always still take a few quite
Speaker 1: a few minutes to sit there and awe. When you
Speaker 1: get to see one sitting in a tree, it's pretty
Speaker 1: Specially when I saw one, it was like so snowy,
Speaker 1: you know, and like for days you're just looking at
Speaker 1: green and white timber and snow never ending expanses, and
Speaker 1: there's the thing, like the most alive, reddish brownish thing
Speaker 1: that like has ever existed on a limb, and it
Speaker 1: just is burned in my mind. Yeah, you're talking about
Speaker 1: this is from the Idahome hunt. Yeah, just like there's
Speaker 1: a lions standard in that tree and I can look
Speaker 1: at it for as long as I want. No, I mean,
Speaker 1: and just we just heard how rare and elusive they
Speaker 1: are from uh, you know, the prior thing we just
Speaker 1: talked about. And you know, the only guy I know
Speaker 1: it's seen a whole bunch of lions. And it's not
Speaker 1: a hound hunter doesn't really do that much, is Jay Scott.
Speaker 1: But that's because he sits behind giant binoculars, right for like,
Speaker 1: you know how many hours are in a year, Broady,
Speaker 1: and he spent a lot of a lot of hours
Speaker 1: just glass and glass and glass, and and that's how
Speaker 1: I had seen two of the three mount lions. I
Speaker 1: think I had seen three before I started doing hound hunting,
Speaker 1: and two or three binoculars. One was one just you know,
Speaker 1: jumping across the road in the headlights. One came up
Speaker 1: to your turkey hunt. Oh I know, but that was
Speaker 1: after I started, you know how hot. But yeah, you
Speaker 1: just don't get to see him otherwise, you know, it's
Speaker 1: a special deal. So, uh, your dog now knows that
Speaker 1: that's what it's that at the end of this trail.
Speaker 1: Is that thing in a tree? Correct? But is it
Speaker 1: participating in the catch? It's a spectator? Um, my friends
Speaker 1: and mentors tell me that he is. I'm still novice
Speaker 1: enough for it. I think someone us have a hard
Speaker 1: time but looking at the GPS and actually knowing. But
Speaker 1: like being with Bart George, being with uh our buddy Jake,
Speaker 1: like they're always like Oh yeah, Mingus is right there.
Speaker 1: He might have not been the first dog of the tree,
Speaker 1: but he was there two seconds later. You know, like
Speaker 1: he knows what's up, he's doing in the job. And
Speaker 1: I think that I just and that's why hopefully in
Speaker 1: the next week or two, I'm gonna do a little
Speaker 1: bit of hunting, just he and I because that's we're
Speaker 1: sort of at this place. For me to answer this question,
Speaker 1: I need to go out there find the track for myself,
Speaker 1: which is a big thing that I haven't yet to
Speaker 1: even do, is just like find one identify as a lion,
Speaker 1: and then just put Mingus on it, and then just
Speaker 1: the two of us go and do it and see
Speaker 1: what happens in the area that's closed. When there's a
Speaker 1: unit that's closed because of quota, can you run? Correct?
Speaker 1: You still can't? You can still run? Oh yeah until April.
Speaker 1: I think it's four. Uh do do like, do the
Speaker 1: people around you if if Mingus was never gonna make it? Um? Well,
Speaker 1: the people around you say that, yeah, But I think
Speaker 1: that most people would experience hounds, hound handlers would tell
Speaker 1: you that it's not the dog, it's just that you
Speaker 1: haven't done enough work with a dog. They all have
Speaker 1: it in him. And the more I've done this, I've
Speaker 1: heard about like little uh weener dogs that run tracks.
Speaker 1: I've heard about labs that have been on a whole
Speaker 1: bunch of mountain lion tracks and in trees, like you
Speaker 1: need to teach the dog what you wanted to do.
Speaker 1: They all have these amazing noses and like you put
Speaker 1: the time in and it's gonna happen. Jay keeps telling
Speaker 1: me it takes twenty trees to have like a finished dog.
Speaker 1: When when you when your dog has been to twenty
Speaker 1: mountain lion trees, like that dog, at that point you're
Speaker 1: gonna say either he's got it or he doesn't. Right
Speaker 1: after twenty tracks and trees, so he's got eight more
Speaker 1: and then you might be out digging a hole out back.
Speaker 1: I don't think. Well, let me ask you this though,
Speaker 1: is it fair to say that, like, because you have
Speaker 1: kids and stuff, you were gonna get a dog, right
Speaker 1: and you got out of pound puppy and it was
Speaker 1: a hound. Knowing what you now know, do you wish
Speaker 1: you'd just gone and bought like some you know, pedigree
Speaker 1: line like it's eighteen grandfathers were all famous lion hounds no, no,
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't want to say it's cheating, but
Speaker 1: like I've enjoyed the journey, you know, with with Mingus
Speaker 1: and so, and I don't know if I would have
Speaker 1: been able to appreciate it. You know, what's the good?
Speaker 1: What's the real good? Mountain lion, pedigreed puppy go for
Speaker 1: like just I have no idea, but I bet you
Speaker 1: could easily spend a thousand bucks. Oh yeah, bird dogs
Speaker 1: you know, like and plus man, if you'd got one
Speaker 1: of those, you'd have had such high expectations. And that's
Speaker 1: what the dog was for, Like, you know, it's everything's
Speaker 1: like Meingus exceeds expectations every day. Um say, not that
Speaker 1: I think this to happen at all, but say, for
Speaker 1: whatever reason, you get the twenty trees and he's just
Speaker 1: like not doing it. You know, you're gonna put him
Speaker 1: back on the couch with the girls and get another hand,
Speaker 1: another one possibly, yeah, and then not going to go
Speaker 1: down to the pound again. No no, no, no, then
Speaker 1: I would be mining all my best resources. I would
Speaker 1: to go smaller. That's I mean, we love Megus in
Speaker 1: our house, but he's an eighty pound big boy and uh,
Speaker 1: you could have. You can have two or three hounds
Speaker 1: that fit into the same package. Yeah, you know, most dogs, well,
Speaker 1: to know what's going on in the counter, they got
Speaker 1: to kind of walk with their nose up and then
Speaker 1: kind of like that dog just looks. He kind of
Speaker 1: has to just turn his head sideways a little bit
Speaker 1: and that gets in the angles. Oh, that's what's on
Speaker 1: the counter. But no, the story I've been meaning to
Speaker 1: tell you, it's kind of funny, is over the holidays. Uh,
Speaker 1: my sister and her family were visiting with four kids.
Speaker 1: My mom was visiting, so we're quite the full house.
Speaker 1: And a couple of days we went up to Disneyland
Speaker 1: also known as h Bridger Ski Hill up there at
Speaker 1: Bridger Canyon, and uh, one day as we're leaving, right
Speaker 1: around I don't know, three thirty four, we started getting
Speaker 1: text from my mom and I'm not even getting them.
Speaker 1: They're coming. I'm reading. I'm getting the information from like
Speaker 1: my sister and my mom and my wife, and they're like, yeah,
Speaker 1: your mom's saying that in the course of the day,
Speaker 1: she's seen like a fox, a raccoon, And now there's
Speaker 1: a couple of links trying to climb the fence to
Speaker 1: get into where the turkeys and chickens are. I'm like,
Speaker 1: holy sh it's quite them almost moved my house. Look
Speaker 1: look at us. We're up here being dumbass, is just skiing.
Speaker 1: We could have been at home, you know, seeing how
Speaker 1: it's amazing wildlife. So, you know, I finally get my
Speaker 1: mom on the phone. I'm like, okay, tell me exactly.
Speaker 1: She's like, no, I'm for sure they had you know.
Speaker 1: She's just driving like rings on the tail of one animal.
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, it could have been a coon, you know,
Speaker 1: and then uh this other a warm days Uh no,
Speaker 1: no it was cold. Um, but the other animals, I said,
Speaker 1: describe the links to me? Said spots. She said, no, spots.
Speaker 1: How long was the tail? And she's like, you know,
Speaker 1: a foot or two? Like it sounds like a small lion,
Speaker 1: maybe more than likely. So she's like, well, yeah, Mingus
Speaker 1: and I were out there and he didn't even run
Speaker 1: after him, like Vengus got knocked down a note. So anyhow,
Speaker 1: we get home and uh, I like, I double check
Speaker 1: again with my mom where everything was. I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go look for tracks. So I go out
Speaker 1: there with Mingus and going towards the chicken coop, and
Speaker 1: in like seconds, Mingus is off like kind of where
Speaker 1: you where we cut down that tree, not the two
Speaker 1: cheese together, but the single. He's off behind the garage
Speaker 1: there down the hill, um cutting loose like banging. I'm like,
Speaker 1: what the hell is I don't even make it to
Speaker 1: look for t acts. I walk over there and yeah,
Speaker 1: there's like a twenty pound mountain lion up in the tree. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Turns out it was a pair. And now I don't
Speaker 1: know what happened, like little guys, little guys, But why
Speaker 1: did he want to chase him? The thing is is
Speaker 1: I wasn't there, so I can't for sure tell you
Speaker 1: that Mingus saw two small mountain lions and then just
Speaker 1: stood there. Maybe he didn't because I wasn't there. He
Speaker 1: didn't like think that that was the thing to do.
Speaker 1: It just doesn't seem right because that dog usually cuts
Speaker 1: out of the house like chasing after something before he's
Speaker 1: even seen it, you know. Uh. But anyway, yeah, and
Speaker 1: I can't I don't know. I went to get a
Speaker 1: light so we could show everybody mounta lion, because I mean,
Speaker 1: you could just stand next to the garage and see
Speaker 1: this cat in the tree, and as I'm gone, either
Speaker 1: that lion gets down and runs into another tree, or
Speaker 1: there's a because there ends up being too late. Like
Speaker 1: in the next couple of days, we see two small,
Speaker 1: you know, kittens, but mingus trees another cat like a
Speaker 1: hundred yards away on that same hillside. So in one
Speaker 1: night he got two trees. Are those counted within the dozen? Uh? Yeah? Um,
Speaker 1: you think they got orphaned? Yeah? I think so, yeah,
Speaker 1: and whether it's by We were trying to see if
Speaker 1: a female had been killed on the quota like recently. Um,
Speaker 1: and I obviously called the game one to see, hey,
Speaker 1: like what should I do about this? And he pretty
Speaker 1: much just said, man, you gotta like don't take any chances,
Speaker 1: Like if you feel like you want to put them down,
Speaker 1: put them down and just shoot him. We didn't want
Speaker 1: to do that. We're hoping that, you know, if they
Speaker 1: got too crazy and we're trying to mess around, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: because they hung out for like another four or thirty
Speaker 1: six hours, you know, like we saw him I think
Speaker 1: two or three more times, and I was definitely getting
Speaker 1: to the point where I had a rifle at the
Speaker 1: ready and I was kind of saying like if they
Speaker 1: show up again, like I'm just gonna shoot him, you know.
Speaker 1: And uh, And they had no interest in coming out
Speaker 1: and getting them. They just like let it play out
Speaker 1: like whatever. Well they'd I'd say, if you want us
Speaker 1: to come and take care of him, we will. But
Speaker 1: that's what taking care of would look like. Yeah, they'd
Speaker 1: euthanize them. Ah but yeah, either mom got killed by
Speaker 1: a hunter, she could have gotten struck by a car.
Speaker 1: Sometimes they'll leave I found out that they'll leave the
Speaker 1: kittens for days while they're out hunting. Then once they
Speaker 1: make the kill, they go get the kittens and then
Speaker 1: go back to the kill. Um, so we're hoping, yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe Mom will show back up in the next couple
Speaker 1: of days. But unfortunately for those two kittens, they went
Speaker 1: up and over the ridge and found themselves under someone
Speaker 1: else's deck. Those people called the game warr and he
Speaker 1: came and youthanized him. Oh really, how did you hear that?
Speaker 1: Oh he'd called into too. He called me back just
Speaker 1: to give me the update. The warden did huh did
Speaker 1: they Did they show like any fear you guys at all?
Speaker 1: Or Oh? Yeah, I mean they would when you went
Speaker 1: out there they'd walk away they know they weren't spotted.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so uh, that's kind of a fun little
Speaker 1: mangus cat story. We can talk about hunting cats to
Speaker 1: with Jake, but it's we didn't really get to do
Speaker 1: a lot of cat hunting. It's not a great hunting story.
Speaker 1: I'm curious other than other than catching that big old bobcat,
Speaker 1: which is like a big old bobcat, big old bobcat side, No,
Speaker 1: have you seen that little uh viral video of big
Speaker 1: old bobcat and the kid saying big old bobcat. Nobody
Speaker 1: like YouTube, Just google it and it'll come up. It's
Speaker 1: keep saying big old bobcat. Yeah, it's gonna go viral now.
Speaker 1: I think I think it already has. But yeah, the
Speaker 1: kids like, I don't even know if he has a
Speaker 1: be begun. He might just have a stick. And he
Speaker 1: sort of plays like he's shooting his own house cat.
Speaker 1: And he goes pee pee and he throws the stick aside,
Speaker 1: grabs a bobcat who's ever running the phone. It's like,
Speaker 1: what you got there? He's like no, After he does
Speaker 1: the shoot and he's like, that's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1: Whole sun and it's like a four year old. He
Speaker 1: throws a stick aside, puts the cat up on his
Speaker 1: shoulder and goes got me. He's like, what do you got?
Speaker 1: You got big old? I got to play it here?
Speaker 1: Thank you. I'm coming down. What you got there? He's
Speaker 1: holding als cat. Oh man, big old bob cat. Um. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So Jake and I went hunted made an episode hunt
Speaker 1: lions in Montana and uh we cut tracks unfortunately where
Speaker 1: the tracks were like it sometimes happens when you're filming
Speaker 1: on land that we didn't even know we could have
Speaker 1: a hunted, so we didn't try to get the film
Speaker 1: permit for it. And uh we also had tracks going
Speaker 1: into private and we try to get private access and
Speaker 1: it just didn't pan out. So we didn't really get
Speaker 1: to run any lions on the trip. But we did
Speaker 1: get to run this one bobcat track and unfortunately Mangus
Speaker 1: didn't run that one because it was very deep snow,
Speaker 1: and Jake figured we needed all the advantage we could get.
Speaker 1: And bobcats, unlike lions, tend to be a lot more
Speaker 1: evasive and they actually when they know they're being pursued
Speaker 1: by dogs. Um. And this is according to hounds people
Speaker 1: that I talked to they actually start to make evasive maneuvers,
Speaker 1: and I've seen it even with Mangus. The one time
Speaker 1: we did a Bobcat, just he and I had a
Speaker 1: bobcat go into a tree and then leap so far
Speaker 1: out of that tree into the nearby snow that it
Speaker 1: took me, you know, five minutes of wandering around to
Speaker 1: kind of put two and two together, because I saw
Speaker 1: the tracks going into the tree, but there were no
Speaker 1: tracks leaving the tree, and I could see the whole tree.
Speaker 1: I'm like, where's the bobcat? And then you know, five
Speaker 1: minutes later, I could I see like what looks like
Speaker 1: a little greater you know, like twenty some feet away,
Speaker 1: and walk over there and there's the beginning of the
Speaker 1: track again. Right. So there's an example of like what
Speaker 1: they might do. Jake's dogs, two of them run silent
Speaker 1: on track, meaning like Mangus when he's on track every
Speaker 1: ten to thirty seconds. Yeah, and I like that. I
Speaker 1: like that silent killer dog idea many well. Back in
Speaker 1: the day before GPS collars, you had to have at
Speaker 1: least one dog that that was loud on trail because
Speaker 1: you had to stay with you. There's no way to
Speaker 1: stay with your dogs you don't know where, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: So now you can have that because you can always
Speaker 1: see where they are via GPS collars. Yeah that's a
Speaker 1: good point, man, Like in the old days. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you had to be here, which I for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: I'm a little bit drawn towards that, and I'm silent
Speaker 1: killers no, no, no, I'm drawn towards for some reason,
Speaker 1: even though I've never done it, I'm nostalgic for or
Speaker 1: like having to run. And maybe it's just because I
Speaker 1: like the physical aspect of like running around in the
Speaker 1: hills and having to like purposely do physical ship on
Speaker 1: this hunt, which would be like, yeah, you gotta stay
Speaker 1: with the dogs, you gotta keep them in earshot at
Speaker 1: all times. But I've mentioned it to both Clay and Jake.
Speaker 1: We've been doing it a long time and they did
Speaker 1: it prior to GPS, and they're like, na, not interested.
Speaker 1: They like it just fine. Like this, Um, now when
Speaker 1: you get uh, are they when you go to run
Speaker 1: a bobcat? Um? Are they picking? They're looking for a
Speaker 1: big bobcat? Do they do they pass up small bobcat tracks?
Speaker 1: There's like any bobcat? Um? I think it would depend um.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I don't think that Jake likes to kill
Speaker 1: like small bobcats that are like the size of a
Speaker 1: house cat, so he he looks for a large track. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he probably would if he has time. I think he'd
Speaker 1: probably still run the bomb cat because I think it's
Speaker 1: like really good training because if your dog can run
Speaker 1: a bobcat, they can just about run anything. Um, So
Speaker 1: they'll probably still run it and then just you know,
Speaker 1: walk up to the tree, say hi and walk away.
Speaker 1: You know what my theory is about that bobcat dog thing, um,
Speaker 1: because on one hand, to be like, well, how would
Speaker 1: they ever develop the ability to evade hound dogs? But
Speaker 1: it has to be something with just the fact that
Speaker 1: all their interactions with Kyle Wits and wolves for sure,
Speaker 1: like like they got like a they get trailed by
Speaker 1: canines and have developed ways to elude a canine trailing them.
Speaker 1: It's like a thing you have to know or else
Speaker 1: you're screwed. Um. And so because the snow it was
Speaker 1: like i mean literally you know, crushed aways deep on us,
Speaker 1: the bobcat is specifically made to walk on top of
Speaker 1: that stuff, right with giant pause. These dogs are not.
Speaker 1: And so if that bobcat gets a head start, he
Speaker 1: or she can just take their time, you know, do
Speaker 1: figure eights, climbed trees, do whatever they want to do,
Speaker 1: and the dogs are gonna be post holing and they're
Speaker 1: never gonna catch up to it or put enough pressure
Speaker 1: on it to put it up into a tree. So
Speaker 1: he feels if you put silent dogs in there, when
Speaker 1: the bobcat knows that it's being trailed, it's the dogs
Speaker 1: are seeing it and they can immediately put that pressure
Speaker 1: on it and boom, it goes right into a tree.
Speaker 1: Like there is no you know, there's no real chase
Speaker 1: on the snow. And then you don't like to turn
Speaker 1: out at night, right, but you kind of want to
Speaker 1: get going. You're not allowed to chase at night, or
Speaker 1: you can't chase him, at least on in Montana. You
Speaker 1: have to wait until the same thing. It's like legal
Speaker 1: shooting hours. You can't turn out until half an hour
Speaker 1: before sunrise. Oh, I didn't know that, So that's like, okay,
Speaker 1: I think there was some practical reason. Why is that
Speaker 1: for lions specifically? Yeah, it could be different for bobcats.
Speaker 1: I'd have to check the REGs. But also you can't
Speaker 1: it's not just the shooting, it's the turning out. You
Speaker 1: have to turn out doing legal light. Oh, that explains
Speaker 1: a lot would be a dirty trick. Yeah, and listen, man,
Speaker 1: this bobcat was so special. I've heard from a multiple
Speaker 1: people that have pursued bobcats for you know, half their
Speaker 1: lives that have never gotten a bobcat like this. Like
Speaker 1: Jimmy Miller, who you know as a whole pile of
Speaker 1: bobcat hides in his house, used to trap him a
Speaker 1: lot in Colorado, which produces a lot of what he
Speaker 1: calls Lynx grade cats. He's like, I've never seen one
Speaker 1: like that. He's like, that is a very very very
Speaker 1: special cat. You're talking about it. Yeah, and the size,
Speaker 1: but you have to have like a belly that goes
Speaker 1: like almost up onto its size and the spots go
Speaker 1: like down the insides of its legs. Um, i'd cats,
Speaker 1: good cats. I've been looking at the stuff. Good cats
Speaker 1: are still getting over Some good cats are still getting
Speaker 1: over a thousand bucks this year. What are you gonna
Speaker 1: do with that thing? I'm gonna make it into a
Speaker 1: John Hayes tax during me soft pillow? No nice? Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: that'll be cool. No, I want I've never done any
Speaker 1: tax for me. This will be my first one ever,
Speaker 1: and I want something that is very uh approachable and
Speaker 1: like can be handled. You know, I don't know if
Speaker 1: anybody's going to actually take a nap on it and
Speaker 1: use it as Yeah I might, but like I wanted
Speaker 1: when kids come over, I wanted to be like, I'm
Speaker 1: not worried about it getting messed up. Like if in
Speaker 1: ten years it's like warn ragged from kids and people
Speaker 1: handling it, I'll consider it a win and I'll, you know,
Speaker 1: go make another one. Right. I'm a little jealous that.
Speaker 1: I mean to be totally honestly, I'm a little jealous
Speaker 1: that Bobcat. What would you do with it? He had
Speaker 1: it wall hanger tanying it and just put up the
Speaker 1: hide trapper style. What about mingus? He's gonna be around
Speaker 1: that thing? Yeah don't. Dogs don't care. Dogs don't. I
Speaker 1: found that dogs don't like chewt that like our dog
Speaker 1: likes everything, but it doesn't like chewing tan hides. I
Speaker 1: think it just smells like chemical. That's exact opposite. Like
Speaker 1: he's obsessed with this access deer hide in my house.
Speaker 1: Like we just basically had to give it to him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: just keep taking it, like dragging it to his spot
Speaker 1: like our dog. Won't you look at it? Man, you'd
Speaker 1: rather chew rags out in the garage. Yeah. Like I
Speaker 1: literally was like, well, I guess I gotta get another
Speaker 1: access deer hides. Yeah, We've got a coon hide and
Speaker 1: like a couple of coyotes and a fox and he's
Speaker 1: never touched those, so I'm sure when we first bring
Speaker 1: it in and that thing looks pretty real like a's
Speaker 1: staring at him, he's probably gonna have a little reaction. Okay,
Speaker 1: let's get into this Neil guy deal. Okay, now, hundred
Speaker 1: guy one time you were there, ye uh, the whole
Speaker 1: conversation around. We should first off, do you want to
Speaker 1: do like a little Yannie book report about what Neil
Speaker 1: guy are the honest eagle on the case we ken? Yeah,
Speaker 1: if you think that would be good. Real quick, real
Speaker 1: quick introduction. Nil Ah, it's a uh antelope species. It's
Speaker 1: best known for coming from India, although they it's found
Speaker 1: all over like the southern part of the Asian continent.
Speaker 1: Ah a little bit of fame in that there's like
Speaker 1: more of them in Texas now than there is in
Speaker 1: India probably depending on you know, sex and maturity, anywhere
Speaker 1: from three hundred I mean obviously calves can be little,
Speaker 1: but adults probably three hundred to five fifty, maybe six
Speaker 1: hundred on a on a really big mature bowl. Uh.
Speaker 1: There's stories of a thousand pound nil guy and just
Speaker 1: like there are a thousand pounds uh, you know bulls
Speaker 1: running around Montana, which I don't think that happens that often. Um,
Speaker 1: but yeah, um known to be very good eating. Uh
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, out of all the exotics in uh Texas,
Speaker 1: it's sort of like sits on on a pedestal above
Speaker 1: the rest, which I don't really understand the same ranch
Speaker 1: that we've been on ranches even say it like down
Speaker 1: here it's like cattle or for selling nil guy for eating.
Speaker 1: And it's because even though they're an antelope quote unquote,
Speaker 1: they're actually like a member of the same there a
Speaker 1: bovine species like cow like cattle are. So it really
Speaker 1: has to do with like the taste preference of especially
Speaker 1: of Americans who like beef, who like cattle flavored animals,
Speaker 1: and so that's why they're so much better. But the
Speaker 1: trophy is very highly sought after. Two for sure, for
Speaker 1: some reason, which is interesting because you know it's not
Speaker 1: you wouldn't. I wouldn't originally think that would be a
Speaker 1: huge trophy for folks, just because of the fact that, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's not like it has big horns on it. And
Speaker 1: right next to it is standing a cemetery tar Orcs
Speaker 1: which four horns on it, all curved and crazy looking,
Speaker 1: and there's something like the euro Mounts Freedom Mounts. Uh
Speaker 1: there's something rather satanic looking about Yeah, for sure. They
Speaker 1: definitely have the devil horn thing going on. For Yeah,
Speaker 1: I can't wait to like a heavy metal album cover
Speaker 1: or something. Man. Uh, we were we covered that. We
Speaker 1: were we covered Niogai really heavy during that crazy ass
Speaker 1: Southern Arctic blast winters ago because they were I mean
Speaker 1: thousands and thousands and thousands froze to death. They just
Speaker 1: can't cope. Yeah, a little freezing weather. Did you see
Speaker 1: any like impacts from that? No? No, I think that
Speaker 1: they're um high fecundity, and uh, either they bounced back
Speaker 1: or they just weren't that that big of a die off.
Speaker 1: They also felt that because they have um low fence
Speaker 1: on three sides of that ranch that any animals that
Speaker 1: wanted to leave could leave and maybe did and then
Speaker 1: came back. Um, they've had that happen with other species
Speaker 1: to when there's been weather events or like smoke or
Speaker 1: something that they feel like animals just like leaving the black. Um.
Speaker 1: So when we that was a good little intro when
Speaker 1: we hunted him. There's a lot about Uh, there's a
Speaker 1: lot about they can really take a hit. Um, you
Speaker 1: gotta be very careful to try to drop them. Once
Speaker 1: they get in the in the brush, you're gonna lose them.
Speaker 1: They don't bleed their hearts in a weird place for
Speaker 1: a lot of that. Yeah, you're gonna lose him. You
Speaker 1: don't do everything exactly right if you go online. And
Speaker 1: that was one of the reasons we went to hunt
Speaker 1: them on this particular trip was that it's kind of
Speaker 1: known as the toughest animal in the lower forty eight
Speaker 1: to take down. Super tough hide soaks up the lead.
Speaker 1: Like if you don't kill him out in the open,
Speaker 1: they run into the brush, you're never gonna find him.
Speaker 1: He's got like quick clot flowing through his veins totally. Um.
Speaker 1: And so yeah, in this episode that I went down
Speaker 1: there to shoot, I did with a fella by name
Speaker 1: of Troy Fowler. You can find him on YouTube and
Speaker 1: Instagram as the Ranch Ferry. What does that mean? The rain? Right? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I I told him multiple times. I said, buddy, it's
Speaker 1: ballsy to like and and and that's a nickname that
Speaker 1: he gave himself. To give yourself a nickname that has
Speaker 1: ferry included. You know, um, didn't we have this conversation. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're no strangers to double on tondres. You're going to
Speaker 1: explain that to me? Well, people are good? Do you
Speaker 1: get call it me an eater? Right? No, explain double atendra?
Speaker 1: Oh me saying something like, I'm trying to think of
Speaker 1: a good double entendre. Um. Uh do you think it?
Speaker 1: One feels good at this kind of stuff? It has
Speaker 1: double meaning. It has double meaning so often in a
Speaker 1: sexy way, and one of the meeting one of the
Speaker 1: meetings meanings is usually a little risque or yeah, sexy, right,
Speaker 1: So Ranch Ferry. You could be like it's a person
Speaker 1: that brings magical gifts to ranches, or you could be
Speaker 1: that it's a derogatory term of like a derogatory term
Speaker 1: for someone of a particular persuasion who's residing at a ranch. Uh.
Speaker 1: He is neither of those. Um, so it's a triple.
Speaker 1: He came up with a ranch faery kind of like
Speaker 1: at home sometimes range ranche. Then I started thinking it
Speaker 1: was range, which made more sense. But go on his family.
Speaker 1: I think actually he married into it and married into
Speaker 1: a big family that owns I can't remember how big
Speaker 1: the ranches, but they own a own a small ranch
Speaker 1: in Texas, and um, they're kind of like at your
Speaker 1: house sometimes where where the kids might be like, wow,
Speaker 1: the house is always clean. I didn't clean it. How
Speaker 1: does it? How does it stay clean? You're like, well,
Speaker 1: when you go to bed, he little ship, I stay
Speaker 1: up and do all the dishes and clean, run around
Speaker 1: for thirty minutes yourself in the ranch ferry or the
Speaker 1: house faery cleans it all up. So he sort of
Speaker 1: has assumed the role on that ranch as when everybody
Speaker 1: else leaves and the good times are over, but the
Speaker 1: a t V is not running anymore and the one
Speaker 1: blind got knocked over by the windstorm and the pipes froze.
Speaker 1: He fixes everything, the unseen person taking care of every
Speaker 1: I would never guess that. So yeah, when you come back,
Speaker 1: everything's fixed. Who did it? The ranch ferry I'm gonna
Speaker 1: start being the shack ferry or not me. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: find one. You need to find one. It's gonna say.
Speaker 1: If you're gonna do that, why don't you stop him?
Speaker 1: Mind that very shock freaking take care of too. Exactly
Speaker 1: exactly so, uh he volunteers with UM the Ashby Foundation.
Speaker 1: We had on the podcast a while back at Ashby
Speaker 1: and we talked all about you know, his Uh, I
Speaker 1: get the connection though about his you know principles of
Speaker 1: what makes the best most efficient killing arrow and broadhead.
Speaker 1: It might not be the most fun arrow to shoot
Speaker 1: on league night. Nope, that's right because they're heavy, UM
Speaker 1: and they have you know, two bladed broadheads which sometimes
Speaker 1: tend to plane in the air more than uh, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe a smaller broadhead and whatever. So layout really like
Speaker 1: just leave the neo gut thing for a minute. Sure, Layout,
Speaker 1: the UM just do not not a recap at Ashby,
Speaker 1: but that that episode, but layout sort of the emerging
Speaker 1: conflict like everything got light, like everything got light and fast,
Speaker 1: and it was celebrated like how fast, how flat? Yeah,
Speaker 1: probably in like the early two thousand's UM, I believe
Speaker 1: it was like graphite. Actually it was before carbon like,
Speaker 1: and I saw it as a hunting guide. It was
Speaker 1: a heavy illumina arrows, but nobody thought they were heavy
Speaker 1: illuminate arrows. They were just alumina ary, that's what they were.
Speaker 1: And it was either that or would arrows well, graphite
Speaker 1: shows up and all of a sudden people started getting
Speaker 1: very high speeds of arrows. I remember being as like
Speaker 1: a hunting guide. We would shoot a lot mid mid
Speaker 1: day when we're not in the woods, and all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, guys started showing up with rigs where when
Speaker 1: they shot, you didn't even see the arrow and flight.
Speaker 1: It would just be like and then the arrowould be
Speaker 1: a peer and the targets like holy shit, you know. Well, um,
Speaker 1: those also came around, came along with like really light broadheads. Um.
Speaker 1: And even though they were super flat shooting and like
Speaker 1: your pin gaps were super tight and you could you know,
Speaker 1: they just don't have a lot of trajectory. Um. We
Speaker 1: immediately saw it on Elk where we were getting poor penetration,
Speaker 1: and for a long time we actually figured that we
Speaker 1: just had bad hunters. We just were like these guys
Speaker 1: like aren't practicing enough, They're not hitting him in the
Speaker 1: right spots and we never really thought we never really
Speaker 1: put it on the the equipment, you know. But uh,
Speaker 1: like I can vividly remember more like a half dozen
Speaker 1: elk that were shot in the shoulder and you'd get
Speaker 1: like three or four or five inches of penetration and
Speaker 1: you see him run off in the arrow would fall
Speaker 1: out and you wouldn't even bothers. I like, shot elk
Speaker 1: hit the shoulder one time and as it ran off,
Speaker 1: the air was flopping and it was just like like
Speaker 1: slightly lodged into the muscle. You know, it's probably like
Speaker 1: a hundred things I did wrong, but yeah, I remember
Speaker 1: that it was like a thing like damn, yeah, you
Speaker 1: think it would well? And even I think that you
Speaker 1: were trying to think were you shooting those full metal
Speaker 1: jackets I got for you on that Blue Mountain hunt
Speaker 1: that we did in Washington. You were so you had
Speaker 1: a fairly heavier arrow. I don't know what it was
Speaker 1: at the time. Um probably didn't have his high of
Speaker 1: foc Maybe it's like if I had to build you
Speaker 1: an arrow now. And again I don't know what broad
Speaker 1: haad you had, but like that bowl didn't go the
Speaker 1: G five Montechi Montech that arrow only went probably halfway
Speaker 1: into that animal. Right in the video you could see
Speaker 1: half an arrow kind of hanging out. Um. Anyway, So yeah,
Speaker 1: we've had this thing where everybody went super fast, super
Speaker 1: light and would brag about speeds. Yes, exactly, And a
Speaker 1: lot of people liked it for white tail hunting because
Speaker 1: they figured it's a way to get around on the
Speaker 1: white tail um ducking or reacting to the sound of
Speaker 1: the string. Which I'll tell you funny story about that
Speaker 1: can I don't want to you don't want to name
Speaker 1: names here, but someone was a friend of mine was
Speaker 1: not in this room, no no, no building. He was
Speaker 1: out with a rancher and the ranchers showing him around
Speaker 1: his place for deer hunting, and he's like talking about
Speaker 1: having a famous bow hunter. Um. I recently heard this
Speaker 1: story too. And the bow hunter missed the deer and
Speaker 1: he's like, oh, you jumped the string. He jumped the string,
Speaker 1: you know, And and the rancher very nonchalantly goes, but
Speaker 1: we watched the tape. He just shot under it. Um. Yeah.
Speaker 1: That's another thing that people are trying to talk about
Speaker 1: now too, is that people for a long time have
Speaker 1: thought that it's always a sound of the bow going
Speaker 1: off at the animals reacting to um. But I recently
Speaker 1: heard a story about a guy was in Africa and
Speaker 1: when he'd have animals coming into the water hole that
Speaker 1: he didn't want to shoot opposite the water hole. He
Speaker 1: was in a blind right, so he's got a water
Speaker 1: hole on one side, but he's got windows on both
Speaker 1: sides blind and opposite the water hole. He had a
Speaker 1: target because he wanted to test this, and so he
Speaker 1: would when an animal be sitting there at the water
Speaker 1: hole twenty yards away drinking, he would draw his bow
Speaker 1: and shoot the target. Zero reaction from these animals head
Speaker 1: down to stay in the water, kept drinking. So there's
Speaker 1: some people that are starting to think that it's actually
Speaker 1: the sound of the arrow coming towards that animal that
Speaker 1: makes him react. And it's not just the pop of
Speaker 1: the you know the cams in the spring when people
Speaker 1: say jump, that's just so folks listening whatnot, No, we're
Speaker 1: talking about and people say jumped the string there, it's
Speaker 1: actually ducking. It's like an animal goes to load up
Speaker 1: to spring. So different than if you're trying to jump
Speaker 1: up and touch a basketball rima. Yeah, you go down
Speaker 1: for up exactly so he knows something's not right enough.
Speaker 1: The word he's gonna get out of town. And in
Speaker 1: the time as he like gets ready to spring and
Speaker 1: you look on that. You know, people know so much
Speaker 1: stuff now because just because you can film stuff and
Speaker 1: watch it, I mean his back, I mean they drop
Speaker 1: a half body length. Yeah, you'll also hear people say
Speaker 1: duck the string like they're intentional. Like he's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but you watch, you'll you'll watch like if you watch
Speaker 1: the slow motion, his spine winds up down where his
Speaker 1: belly or where his brisket was. Sometimes I say, it
Speaker 1: could be a whole body, you know, vertical with at times.
Speaker 1: Um So anyways, ed Ashby from you get into that
Speaker 1: real quick, he's I don't I don't know. He's not
Speaker 1: necessarily the guy that came up with heavy arrows, but
Speaker 1: he did a bunch of work in Africa and his
Speaker 1: whole What's interesting is the reason he was doing this
Speaker 1: stuff is not that he was out there trying to
Speaker 1: prove that light and and uh fast arrows were bad.
Speaker 1: He was trying to get uh bow hunting legalized in
Speaker 1: the whole continent. Really, there was a few countries that
Speaker 1: allowed bow hunting um just because they didn't have rules
Speaker 1: that said you couldn't bow hunt. But most of the
Speaker 1: countries were like, no, you can't bow hunt. So he
Speaker 1: was like, well, look, I'm gonna go out and study
Speaker 1: and maybe show you guys that it is a lethal
Speaker 1: way to kill an animal. Right, So that was like
Speaker 1: his reasoning behind going and doing what he did. So
Speaker 1: they were saying you can't do it because they felt
Speaker 1: like it would be dangerous for hunters to come there
Speaker 1: and do that, or they just or yeah, maybe it
Speaker 1: wasn't just ethically you know, fair to the animal, just
Speaker 1: wasn't like a good way to bring down an animal.
Speaker 1: You know, there's still countries now where you can't bow
Speaker 1: hunt um. So uh yeah, because sometimes I think he
Speaker 1: gets a bad rap for like he's out there just
Speaker 1: trying to like destroy you know what other people have,
Speaker 1: you know, come up these ideas that he came up
Speaker 1: and he's like, no, I'm I was just trying to
Speaker 1: prove that, like, hey, we could do this with a bow.
Speaker 1: And by the way, the results show that if you
Speaker 1: want to, you know, get maximum penetration, which he believes
Speaker 1: is the best way to kill animals. Here is the
Speaker 1: setup that works best for that, which turns out that
Speaker 1: it's a heavy wait forward arrow um And to get
Speaker 1: weight forward you put on a heavy broadhead and you
Speaker 1: put sometimes even an insert at the tip of your
Speaker 1: arrow two more and drive you know, or pull through
Speaker 1: you know, that arrow through the animal. And for these
Speaker 1: fifty reasons having to do with physics, this is why
Speaker 1: that is. And how heavy Just for a quick like recap,
Speaker 1: like how heavy is heavy? Don't do it? And if
Speaker 1: you do grain, some people the hell that means? No
Speaker 1: one knows what that means. Oh yeah, I don't know
Speaker 1: if I can remember the definition of where grain came from.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like a it was literally came from
Speaker 1: like the weight of seeds way back. And how many
Speaker 1: grains are in a pound. When it comes to when
Speaker 1: you're saying that you shoot a h grain broadhead, that
Speaker 1: grain is a fraction equates to a fraction of a pound.
Speaker 1: Seven thousand grains in a pound, So seven thousand grains
Speaker 1: in a pound when you're shooting a hundred grain broadhead,
Speaker 1: that's what they're talking about. Yeah, I got a math
Speaker 1: question for you, chatter that's yeah, you're shooting a hundred
Speaker 1: grain broadhead. What percentage of a pound? Is that h
Speaker 1: drop some zero? No? No, this I'm doing a little
Speaker 1: a little yeah, yeah, that hundred grain broadhead be almost
Speaker 1: a couple of ounces or a couple of ounces, right, No,
Speaker 1: this is this conversion chart saying that four hundred grains
Speaker 1: is point nine ounce. Hold on, just pause all this film.
Speaker 1: I've never done that. So I've never done the conversion
Speaker 1: three seven grains and ounce of power different. So the
Speaker 1: Mediator Math podcast is really the show. So just be
Speaker 1: clear here grain. Like when we talk about measuring a broadhead.
Speaker 1: If you go for for people at home that don't
Speaker 1: mess with broadheads, going on buy broadheads, or you start
Speaker 1: go asking me your friends, but hey, what grain broadhead
Speaker 1: did you shoot? A lot of people are gonna be
Speaker 1: like one hundred. They're gonna be like one ten. This
Speaker 1: is changing now, this is going to change in the future.
Speaker 1: It will be much higher numbers. But for the last
Speaker 1: you might be it might might not be. But yeah,
Speaker 1: the common weights were probably Chester can help out here.
Speaker 1: He's he's on the company that does he does little,
Speaker 1: but he does toy bows. No. But when you say
Speaker 1: the most common were were like the three common broadhead
Speaker 1: weights hundreds for for a trad bow. No no, no, no,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'm speaking on what I know and what
Speaker 1: people use back in the day before all this technology.
Speaker 1: So I'm like compound bows and I love compound bos.
Speaker 1: But anyways, they were like typically you'd be shooting h
Speaker 1: to like twoin broadheads, like even back in the day
Speaker 1: all those older But that's for trad but like, um,
Speaker 1: but what here's why I'm upset. If you went down
Speaker 1: to Walmart right now and they had one broadhead on
Speaker 1: the shelf, it's gonna be a hundred grain broadhead and
Speaker 1: there's a lot of it'll be those two for sure. Okay,
Speaker 1: that's what I'm saying. I'm just trying to establish the
Speaker 1: hell of grain is what that means. What that means
Speaker 1: is what you're like, what is that unit of measurement
Speaker 1: that is a very arcane unit of measurement that has
Speaker 1: to do with like grain, like cereal grains, I believe,
Speaker 1: and it is one seven thousand of a pound is
Speaker 1: a grain, meaning you would have to buy seventy one
Speaker 1: grain broadheads and put them in a pile if you
Speaker 1: wanted to balance it on a scale with a pound
Speaker 1: of elk. Burger that's correct, that's okay. So, yeah, the
Speaker 1: most common for probably compound shooters and and but now
Speaker 1: you're seeing a lot of people starting to shoot heavier setups.
Speaker 1: The reason it's a little contentious, controversial, whatever you want
Speaker 1: to say, is that, yeah, is that as it gets heavier,
Speaker 1: you get more trajectory out of your arrow. It becomes slower,
Speaker 1: and so you know, it falls out of the sky faster.
Speaker 1: It's not as flat shooting. Um. And you know, people
Speaker 1: for the last twenty years twenty years have been very
Speaker 1: accustomed to shooting fast things that shoot flat, and so
Speaker 1: it's hard go the other direction, even if there's a
Speaker 1: bunch of stuff telling you that it's gonna work better.
Speaker 1: It's fair to say this kind of mimics like the
Speaker 1: same thing you'll see in rifle shooting arguments, right, like
Speaker 1: super fast, flat shooting little light bullets versus great, big,
Speaker 1: heavy ones that shoot like a rainbow. Rick Cutton put
Speaker 1: it to me the other day. He thinks that it um.
Speaker 1: He likes to read articles about this stuff a lot. Uh.
Speaker 1: He's like, all that like super fast bullet stuff is
Speaker 1: all kind of like pre range finder mm hmm. That
Speaker 1: you'd have a gun that you could be like point
Speaker 1: of aims. Yeah, and scopes that you can dial into
Speaker 1: it with. He's like not with the range. Fun it
Speaker 1: doesn't matter anymore. You just you can shoot a heavy
Speaker 1: bullet and you just know what it's gonna do. And
Speaker 1: the whole thing about like I can aim at it
Speaker 1: no matter what. He's like, Okay, yeah, but it's looking
Speaker 1: how far away it is. I know exactly what's gonna happen,
Speaker 1: and and I don't need like the super light flat bullet.
Speaker 1: You shoot a big heavy bullet because you was gonna
Speaker 1: go anyway, which I'm all about, like shooting a big
Speaker 1: heavy for better, you know. But the idea that you
Speaker 1: can't kill a nil guy with a arrow that isn't
Speaker 1: sixty grains in total weight isn't true. I know for
Speaker 1: a fact it isn't true, because I've killed one with
Speaker 1: a small sure, But you can kill an ELK three
Speaker 1: to my bare hands. Right now. We're talking all right,
Speaker 1: episode of trivia for that to happen. But I don't know,
Speaker 1: I don't know where the baseline as far as like
Speaker 1: anything below this, Like when you with rifle calibers, it's
Speaker 1: it's almost easier to know, like Okay, we're now in
Speaker 1: the range of unethical maybe like when well, I don't
Speaker 1: know what I was doing. This whole setup was led
Speaker 1: into this whole thing. I was trying to say that
Speaker 1: in my one experience with nil guy, um, and I
Speaker 1: was with we were with a guy. Um, the guide's
Speaker 1: nil guy hunts. He was very I don't want to
Speaker 1: say fixated. His thing was they just get away. They
Speaker 1: get away if everything doesn't happen perfectly. And um, he
Speaker 1: wanted big rifles, heavy bullets, close shots, careful shot placement.
Speaker 1: Drop it, don't let it get in the brush. They
Speaker 1: just vanish, the same thing you'd see in Africa. Well,
Speaker 1: it's no, I mean you can You're not gonna meet
Speaker 1: an elk guy that wants something different sure than that?
Speaker 1: You know. Um, what Troy Austin talks about is I
Speaker 1: forgot about can your can you're set up handle what
Speaker 1: he calls like plan B when the animal reacts to
Speaker 1: the string when because the human element is introduced. And
Speaker 1: no matter how good this technology gets, the asshole shooting
Speaker 1: the boat is still the same, right, and maybe he's
Speaker 1: not gotten smarter and not gotten better. Uh, and you
Speaker 1: shoot too far forward and you shoot too far back? Right?
Speaker 1: What happens? Then? Does your super light set up that? Sure?
Speaker 1: Like with the perfect st everything always dies like right there,
Speaker 1: they just run off and die, no big deal. But
Speaker 1: when it's not perfect, what happens? Right? And that's the
Speaker 1: same case for why people say use enough gun is
Speaker 1: because stuff happens, and if you don't right exactly right,
Speaker 1: that bigger caliber is probably gonna, you know, be on
Speaker 1: your side at that point. My neighbor in Alaska staws
Speaker 1: hunt deer of the small caliber rifle, Like why do
Speaker 1: you they goes him in the brain? You know, I
Speaker 1: shoot another if you don't hit in the brain, I
Speaker 1: just do this. Yeah. Yeah. A good way of thinking
Speaker 1: about like that arrow bullet thing is like for people
Speaker 1: that may not know any of this stuff, is just
Speaker 1: like thinking about me taking a brick and chucking it
Speaker 1: as hard as I can, Hey, Yanni's head, got it?
Speaker 1: Or grabbing a baseball and chucking in as hard as
Speaker 1: I can at Yanni's head, Like what's gonna do more damage?
Speaker 1: You know? And it's going to be that brick even
Speaker 1: though it's going to be going quite a bit. Sorry, Johnny,
Speaker 1: someone's gotta take it. Listen, it's experimentation. Yeah, so you're
Speaker 1: a believer in that system. Well, yeah, yeah, and I
Speaker 1: was a believer. I've been reading Ashley stuff off and
Speaker 1: on because he wrote a lot of stuff in Traditional
Speaker 1: bowl Hunter, which I used to be a traditional bowl hunter, um.
Speaker 1: And so I've been a believer of heavy arrows and
Speaker 1: those kind of broadheads for a long time. And I've
Speaker 1: known of them, um even before I met Troy or
Speaker 1: we did the podcast with Ed. You know, I was
Speaker 1: shooting like a five and thirty five grain set up,
Speaker 1: you know, but I didn't have that the high foc
Speaker 1: and real quickly FOC stands for forward of center. It's
Speaker 1: basically like where you're gonna if you're just gonna balance
Speaker 1: like on your finger, your arrow, if everything is equal,
Speaker 1: it will balance exactly in the middle. But the more
Speaker 1: way you put up front, the shorter you know, the
Speaker 1: distance from your finger to the front of the arrow
Speaker 1: is going to become right that we can get it balanced.
Speaker 1: So the more way you can get up front helps
Speaker 1: in penetration. And there's always just like dubious physics involved
Speaker 1: in these discussions where if it's heavier in the back,
Speaker 1: it pushes the arrow in or you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: like people say stuff that contradicts itself, and that's why
Speaker 1: I'm an argument and that's why I like, listen, Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's we're gonna learn a lot. We don't know everything
Speaker 1: at this point. There's a lot to be learned out there.
Speaker 1: I'm happy that the Ashley Depth Foundation and people like
Speaker 1: Troy are taking their own free time and at least
Speaker 1: trying to do some research and and trying to figure
Speaker 1: it out, you know, because otherwise we're just working off
Speaker 1: of what you know, the latest hunting host tells you
Speaker 1: what's great and what you saw on TV, or you know, listen,
Speaker 1: let me tell you something. Those guys, right, because all
Speaker 1: of us in this I mean, I don't know how
Speaker 1: many animals you've killed the ball, but for me it's
Speaker 1: been it's less than ten, um, you know, so I'm
Speaker 1: working off limited personal experience. I've seen maybe another thirty
Speaker 1: or forty, you know, because of of guiding archery hunters
Speaker 1: over the years. Um. But anyways, I'm just happy that
Speaker 1: they're at least trying to figure it out. So anyways,
Speaker 1: I shot my nil guy, yeah, with a sift grain
Speaker 1: arrow with this two hundred grain single bevel head and um,
Speaker 1: I think if you want to know more about some
Speaker 1: of this, uh you know technical arrow jargon that we're
Speaker 1: going over here, going and listen to that podcast. So
Speaker 1: if you want to check out what you samos episode
Speaker 1: to eighty four and it was called the Archer's Paradox.
Speaker 1: So do we cover off on why and the arrow
Speaker 1: is enough for you? Because I'd like to talk a
Speaker 1: little bit about the haunting the nil guy themselves, because
Speaker 1: you know when we went down there, your hunt lasted
Speaker 1: a total of two hours, maybe been a lot short,
Speaker 1: could have been shorter, because, uh, getting within a couple
Speaker 1: hundred yards of them is not an issue. Though they
Speaker 1: are generally aware of your presence, but with a rifle
Speaker 1: them being aware of your presence doesn't matter that much, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, it doesn't matter at all. Well, do you
Speaker 1: remember exactly like when we were there, was it December December?
Speaker 1: There was like some some there were there was some
Speaker 1: grab bass going on. So it's definitely like pre rut
Speaker 1: cold mornings, some grab bass. Uh, getting within some distance
Speaker 1: of them was not hard and they would a little
Speaker 1: bit throw caution to the wind, and when they saw
Speaker 1: a movement, they would want to come kind to see
Speaker 1: what it was, but keeping their distance. I shot one
Speaker 1: from a hundred yards. Yeah. We went just after Valentine's Day,
Speaker 1: middle of February, which is known as usually their peak rut.
Speaker 1: Jesse Griffiths told me the locals down there call them
Speaker 1: Valentine because they run around Valentine's Day. Yeah. Um, so
Speaker 1: I think I learned that and forgot it. I like
Speaker 1: that little detail. We uh, we're hoping for the rut.
Speaker 1: Zero rut activity the first four days and extreme, like
Speaker 1: I was cut to the chase. I've never hunted a
Speaker 1: more skittish animal, Like unbelievable. We were getting busted at
Speaker 1: sometimes to three hundred yards and like they would eyeball us,
Speaker 1: and like it didn't take long until they were walking away,
Speaker 1: And would is it because you thought it'd be gravy?
Speaker 1: Certainly a little bit of that, but I mean that
Speaker 1: only Look, there's enough game more skittish than a pressured
Speaker 1: white tail. There's enough game on this ranch that you
Speaker 1: get a lot of opportunities, right, So it didn't take
Speaker 1: long for like think walking into it, think it's gonna
Speaker 1: be gravy, for that idea to get blown out of
Speaker 1: my brain and go, Okay, you better rethink of how
Speaker 1: you're gonna get this done. And your idea was you
Speaker 1: were going to spot and stuck, like sneak in for sure,
Speaker 1: because that's what like doing and doing research for the hunt.
Speaker 1: It was spot and stock them sit over water, sit
Speaker 1: a fence crossing because I didn't know this, but they
Speaker 1: don't jump fences. They go under them and bust a
Speaker 1: lot of fences which they trap um or they'll go
Speaker 1: through gates that are open. And then some people have
Speaker 1: had luck actually sitting over dung pile. That's what That's
Speaker 1: all I've ever done. Yeah with your bowl. Okay, yeah
Speaker 1: they have. They have a lot of fidelity to their
Speaker 1: little ship. In spots were kind of like if you
Speaker 1: can find a big one, like it's always been sort
Speaker 1: of accidental. It's like I didn't set out on a
Speaker 1: nail guy hunt. We were doing something else. We weren't
Speaker 1: having great luck. We came up on like a big
Speaker 1: fecal pile, so you know, that's a big bowl. And
Speaker 1: then we just changed the plant set a ground blind,
Speaker 1: waited it out and waited for him to have to come.
Speaker 1: How long did you wait? Same day both times? But
Speaker 1: that it seems like the ship piles every day exactly
Speaker 1: what I would lace. I would lace some feed with
Speaker 1: a laxative. What I'm saying, I know, I don't. I
Speaker 1: don't know what that would do for you. It might
Speaker 1: do the opposite. Increases visits to the pile for the
Speaker 1: dung pile too, Like they don't just poop anywhere. They
Speaker 1: just like you walk around and you're literally looking at
Speaker 1: little poop piles nicely, you know it. And you know
Speaker 1: what's funny is uh, swamp rabbits. But here's my observation
Speaker 1: about about the dung piles is that chester I did
Speaker 1: when I started paying closer to tention, we did find
Speaker 1: no guy, just dung or scat spread out like you
Speaker 1: wouldn't elk and like a feeding zone. It was just like, oh,
Speaker 1: there's been nil guy in here, and there's not piles
Speaker 1: pile themselves, so they will go there's there's there's They
Speaker 1: vary in size, you know, from you know, a big platter,
Speaker 1: food platter too, you know, like a car hood. But
Speaker 1: what I realized, and again it might because there's so
Speaker 1: many of them on this ranch, is that the difference
Speaker 1: between one that's like a steamer as we started calling them,
Speaker 1: and one that's not where you're like, oh man, someone's
Speaker 1: been here recently. Is one animal species that happened in
Speaker 1: the in the prior twelve hours. So you can't really say, oh,
Speaker 1: this is the hot one right now, because if if
Speaker 1: the bull decides to use the next dunk pile twelve
Speaker 1: hours later, all of a sudden, that became the hot one,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So I never saw one
Speaker 1: where like, oh my gosh, it looks like five nil
Speaker 1: guy have taken a ship here in the last twelve hours.
Speaker 1: It was always just like one had refreshed, had freshened
Speaker 1: it up, and it just it's like, yeah, um, if
Speaker 1: they're as skiittish as a pressured white tail, no way,
Speaker 1: probably not. But I can tell you that again, I'll
Speaker 1: cut to the taste. I had a lot of these. Again,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of game on this On on this ranch,
Speaker 1: we had great stalking uh spot still hunting conditions, not
Speaker 1: spoting stock, just moving through the brush slowly, trying to
Speaker 1: you know, see them before they see you. High winds
Speaker 1: fifteen and twenty miles an hour, making the brush move,
Speaker 1: very steady winds, so you know you've got the wind
Speaker 1: in your favorite paces. Yeah, very and like flat ground,
Speaker 1: which can be a little bit tricky because I'm used
Speaker 1: to hunting the mountains, where you always have a horizon
Speaker 1: to work with, and like when you see something you
Speaker 1: can kind of duck behind the horizon and make a
Speaker 1: move and getting close. When when you're hunting a ranchid
Speaker 1: is almost completely flat as a pancake, you don't have
Speaker 1: the luxury of horizons, and so you either have to
Speaker 1: use the vegetation as sort of a um instead of
Speaker 1: a horizontal horizon more of like a vertical horizon, and
Speaker 1: kind of come around corners and keep peeking around the
Speaker 1: corners like that. But multiple times at sub a hundred
Speaker 1: yards fifty to a hundred yards when I when when
Speaker 1: when and Chris gil was filming with me, and both
Speaker 1: of us had decided like, okay, we have to be
Speaker 1: taking half steps, like no more full steps, and once
Speaker 1: we get like sub seventy five, we're going hands and
Speaker 1: knees to get in close because we're just like gonna
Speaker 1: take them, take ourselves out of that like just general
Speaker 1: view of these animals, but both on my hands and
Speaker 1: knees and standing there multiple times in that like fifty
Speaker 1: seventy five range when I'm like, everything is perfect, the
Speaker 1: winds perfect. Um, they don't know I'm here. Their heads
Speaker 1: are down, they're feeding. There's not a bunch of animals.
Speaker 1: That's another problem. You get a bunch of animals. There's
Speaker 1: just more eyes. You're always battling, and when you think
Speaker 1: nobody's looking, somebody's looking. They catch it, right, But multiple times,
Speaker 1: like one or twosies, and I'm coming in on and
Speaker 1: I'm like, this is it, it's gonna happen. Just half step,
Speaker 1: half step, don't get ahead of yourself, don't let your
Speaker 1: weight get over your toes. And just sitting there, and
Speaker 1: I had a cow just pick her head up, look
Speaker 1: through a tree, look at me. And again it didn't
Speaker 1: last a second and she booked. And I just feel
Speaker 1: like a white tail um an elk in those situations
Speaker 1: if you are not moving. And again Chris Kell could
Speaker 1: have been doing something behind me that I don't know.
Speaker 1: I know, but listen, So that dude is so skinny, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and Gil knows what he's doing. Man, one of them.
Speaker 1: If you get after him and he's so skinny, he's
Speaker 1: behind me, it's kind of like a blind right if
Speaker 1: he's behind me. But anyways, I'm telling you multiple times,
Speaker 1: like lift up their heads for no reason. I didn't
Speaker 1: pop a stick to be like, oh I screwed up.
Speaker 1: I popped a stick, just like standing there, they look up.
Speaker 1: I'm like full face mask. At this point, I was
Speaker 1: talking like the first six hours of the first day
Speaker 1: with no face max out the window. I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 1: everybody's in full cam on. Now we're covered up gloves
Speaker 1: even though it's hot jackets no no, had I brought one,
Speaker 1: I probably would have tried it, but I didn't. I
Speaker 1: didn't bring one. Um. But yeah, man, just like getting
Speaker 1: busted for seemingly no reason and a lot of shaking
Speaker 1: my head and a lot of frustration and every and
Speaker 1: and you know, Brad, who we know from down there,
Speaker 1: is like that's the way you do it, as you
Speaker 1: spot and start or just you know, still hunt him,
Speaker 1: you know, get on your feet and find him and
Speaker 1: get close to him. I finally said, the hell with it,
Speaker 1: we're gonna I found a spot, a whole bunch of
Speaker 1: dung piles, some fresh ones we had every time we
Speaker 1: were in this zone. We were getting into nil guy
Speaker 1: and there was an open gate and a fence that
Speaker 1: goes you know miles in either direction, but here's an
Speaker 1: open gate and looks like pretty good crossings. So we
Speaker 1: do the whole ground blind thing, brush it in like crazy,
Speaker 1: and we gave it a full dark to dark sip.
Speaker 1: The one nil the one nil guy that came by
Speaker 1: came by on the other side of the fence and
Speaker 1: just passed the gay. I don't know if she would
Speaker 1: have come through well if I had not been there,
Speaker 1: because as soon as she was trying to get all
Speaker 1: I would have shot any of the old guy. Um
Speaker 1: when she came by. As soon as she appeared, like
Speaker 1: there was kind of like a brushy fence throw you know,
Speaker 1: you can kind of see through it, not see you
Speaker 1: through it. And as soon as she popped into view,
Speaker 1: she swung that head and was like, what is that
Speaker 1: thing over there? And she was probably I don't know,
Speaker 1: thirty yards Like she just pinned us, pinned the blind,
Speaker 1: not us like we had. In my opinion, like looking
Speaker 1: at it, I'll show you a picture. Its like we
Speaker 1: had a good hide. The orcs that came by didn't
Speaker 1: pin us. The white tails that came by didn't pin us.
Speaker 1: Like the white tails looked, but they would keep feeding,
Speaker 1: you know, she looked eyeballed us and just kept ride
Speaker 1: on walking and was like, I'm not I'm not bothering
Speaker 1: with that. We saw a few bulls, but they were
Speaker 1: just out of range and they were they were just
Speaker 1: moving a direction that wasn't going to bring him through
Speaker 1: that gap. So I could have put in three days
Speaker 1: in that blind and it would have happened. Maybe I don't.
Speaker 1: I didn't have the luxury of that because it was
Speaker 1: my second to last day. So even though it didn't
Speaker 1: work that day, the next morning, I'm like, okay, morning movement,
Speaker 1: I'll give it ninety minutes. See what happens. We said
Speaker 1: it no nil guy come through. Decided to get on
Speaker 1: our feet again. I'm like, okay, at least we're gonna
Speaker 1: get some action and hopefully we're running into some pigs.
Speaker 1: I'd like to shoot another pig. We can talk about
Speaker 1: that too. I had a blast hunting pigs with my bowl,
Speaker 1: like I felt like a kid. Is great. But immediately
Speaker 1: leaving the blind, like ten minutes into it again, great wind,
Speaker 1: like I bust a cow pop out of the water hole,
Speaker 1: and as soon as I hit the water hole and
Speaker 1: I'm like not even like I'm not like standing on
Speaker 1: the edge of the water. I'm looking at the water
Speaker 1: from ten yards back in the brush and I look
Speaker 1: over across the water and there's three nil guy bowls
Speaker 1: looking at me like son of a bitch, and they
Speaker 1: skid her off. I'm like, well, we'll just keep hunting,
Speaker 1: you know, go a little farther. We get to the
Speaker 1: next water hole, we think we hear a pig and
Speaker 1: so I'm like, okay, just totally going to pig mode.
Speaker 1: I thought I heard one grunt and Chris is like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I heard it too. Let's find this big. We're looking around,
Speaker 1: looking around, and we're like maybe again ten five to
Speaker 1: ten yards in the edge of a water hole. Well,
Speaker 1: from over my left shoulder, come in in the open, uh,
Speaker 1: into this water hole. Two Nilgai bulls walk into the
Speaker 1: water and start drinking the closest ones at like fifty yards.
Speaker 1: I'm like, buddy, it's on. Somehow they had not gotten
Speaker 1: my wind when they came in from behind me. Now
Speaker 1: they're up wind and me, I'm like, this is it.
Speaker 1: I gotta make ten yards. They're out in the open,
Speaker 1: there's no brush in the way, Like, I can make
Speaker 1: that shot, no problem, And Chris is like hands and knees.
Speaker 1: I'm like, we're on a buddy, We're all we're because
Speaker 1: we're actually looking for this pig. So we're like on,
Speaker 1: like we're already down. So we start going creeping, creeping,
Speaker 1: But you had limited yourself to a thirty yards shot.
Speaker 1: Thirty five is what I wanted to shoot. Probably in
Speaker 1: perfect conditions, I would have shot forty. Um. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I just don't like the more boning I've been doing lately.
Speaker 1: I don't want to get into those positions where like
Speaker 1: I make I take a shot and and it's not
Speaker 1: the outcome that I want, and it just seems like,
Speaker 1: you know, there's just too even if I make the
Speaker 1: perfect shot, there's so many other variables, you know, I
Speaker 1: want to make sure it does the trick. So yeah,
Speaker 1: forty for sure. Um, nothing past that. Uh So we
Speaker 1: start creeping and just seemingly out of the blue, the
Speaker 1: lead bowl like picks his head up and it's splashing
Speaker 1: out of the water and leaves going away from us,
Speaker 1: son of a bitch, And the other one doesn't spook
Speaker 1: but follows him too, you know. And I think now
Speaker 1: it was this third bowl that up I'm about to
Speaker 1: tell you about that comes in that got him to move,
Speaker 1: because I think he was a little bit ruddy onre
Speaker 1: maybe more dominant, and that's what got him out of there.
Speaker 1: So this wasn't our fault. This other bull comes in
Speaker 1: and he actually crosses a gap for me. At forty
Speaker 1: I come to full draw and I don't know if
Speaker 1: it's a nil guy thing or if he was running
Speaker 1: or what, but I got into them and I'm yelling
Speaker 1: at him and he's not stopping. He just marches right
Speaker 1: on through my window and follows the path of the
Speaker 1: two bulls. It's like, just keep hunting. So I'd go
Speaker 1: across the opening, follow them into the brush, and pop
Speaker 1: out into where it just kind of opens up a
Speaker 1: little bit and you can see fifty yards this way
Speaker 1: that way, and I see a single cow just kind
Speaker 1: of moving and she disappears beyd some brush. I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: I'm in the mix, and again I'm shooting any ni
Speaker 1: old guy at this point, so I kind of make
Speaker 1: a move towards her, and I can see like a
Speaker 1: pretty long opening to my left that's made ten yards
Speaker 1: wide and almost can see a hundred yards and right
Speaker 1: as we get there, three bulls pop into there. One
Speaker 1: is like kind of stuff stuff that we saw when
Speaker 1: we were down there, all of us together. He's jumping around, prancing,
Speaker 1: tail up in the air like just poop like broadcasting
Speaker 1: out of his rear end. Yeah, which it kind of
Speaker 1: makes sense, right if they're doing the dung pile as
Speaker 1: like a set marker, it's like they're scrape that. He's
Speaker 1: gonna do that too in that situation, so just blasting
Speaker 1: it out, yeah, like an air soft gun. The other two,
Speaker 1: we and Chris gott this on camera, full on head bashing,
Speaker 1: and one just pushes the other one like through trees
Speaker 1: like brush getting knocked over to the point where I'm like, hey,
Speaker 1: do I want to get mixed up in this right?
Speaker 1: Like because because the other thing that Armando the guy
Speaker 1: told us about was like and it kind of worked
Speaker 1: on your hunt where like sometimes they'll think you are
Speaker 1: another nil guy sort come and inspect you. And so
Speaker 1: now I'm like, you know whatever, sixty seventy yards, I'm thinking, well,
Speaker 1: are thinking to like think I'm a nil guy instead
Speaker 1: of just inspecting me. Just do what he just did
Speaker 1: to his buddy. I don't have that inch thick hide
Speaker 1: across my chest, you know, and uh. Anyways, like I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: we have running nil guy. This is good, and so
Speaker 1: I kind of just stay with the group. Eventually get
Speaker 1: to where I can see like three or four cows
Speaker 1: in the brush, and I see a bull walking there
Speaker 1: with them, a little bit out of range still maybe
Speaker 1: fifties sixty, and I had already seen him a couple
Speaker 1: of times, like follow them. The cows was scored out,
Speaker 1: you know, they get a little annoyed by whatever he
Speaker 1: was doing. They'd scored out. They scored out again, I
Speaker 1: see right where they go. He comes out after him.
Speaker 1: As soon as he puts his head behind this kind
Speaker 1: of bigger, massive vegetation. I sprint up like fifteen yards,
Speaker 1: come to full draw. When he comes from out from
Speaker 1: behind the rush, he stops just heading neck I can see.
Speaker 1: And he must have just seen something enough because when
Speaker 1: he doesn't follow the cows now, he kind of turns
Speaker 1: away from me and starts just going away. And but
Speaker 1: he's quartering but pretty hard, and at first I'm like,
Speaker 1: I can't take the shot. And again I'm trying to
Speaker 1: stop him, but I'm thinking I don't know if I
Speaker 1: can take the shot, because he's quarner like just walking.
Speaker 1: I don't want to take a walking shot. But because
Speaker 1: he's so quartering a way so hard, he's not actually
Speaker 1: like I'm not having to move my boat to follow him,
Speaker 1: like my pins are almost just like resting on him.
Speaker 1: He's because he's kind of going straight away. And so
Speaker 1: I shoot at like twenty six yards and he was walking,
Speaker 1: and uh, we replay the shot. I don't see him
Speaker 1: fall over. We replay the shot. Shot looks like it's
Speaker 1: a little bit far back, like it definitely enters like
Speaker 1: in the guts and but strong quarter. Yes, the very
Speaker 1: strong well turns out again. I'm gonna cut out some
Speaker 1: of the details. He went seventy yards and fell over,
Speaker 1: and uh, I was after watching the footage, I was
Speaker 1: going to back out, hook up with Troy, give it
Speaker 1: a couple of hours, and come in and try and
Speaker 1: try to look. But Chris is like, let's just do
Speaker 1: one quick little loop. I'm like, all right, you know
Speaker 1: that's my arm, but no blood and we couldn't find
Speaker 1: the Arab blood. No blood, couldn't find the arrow, and uh,
Speaker 1: I'd already this point, you got that like pitting your
Speaker 1: stuff totally. I'm like not stoked on the situation. And
Speaker 1: as you know as a honey host, the first thing
Speaker 1: in your head is like you start to like right
Speaker 1: the lines that you're gonna have to say to the
Speaker 1: camera about how you screwed the pooch and shit happens
Speaker 1: and blah blah blah blah bla blah blah. You know.
Speaker 1: So we recover it not long after, and um, I
Speaker 1: was very excited, I mean and surprised. I don't know
Speaker 1: if I would have been more surprised there was a
Speaker 1: leprecn standing there looking at me, you know, but like
Speaker 1: to see that dude down on the ground. Now when
Speaker 1: he again animals make it seventy yards in like, not
Speaker 1: even a full second where he died, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Had he gone another seventy yards, it would have been
Speaker 1: very easy blood trail because he had, you know, blood
Speaker 1: coming out of his mouth and his nose. Um. It
Speaker 1: would not have come out of either of the or
Speaker 1: the one wound where the where the broad had went in,
Speaker 1: because it went in, like I said, basically in the
Speaker 1: paunch and went all like probably went through eighteen inches
Speaker 1: of grass filled belly, then went through the diaphragm, split
Speaker 1: the lungs and half cut the uh, either the A
Speaker 1: order or the pulmonary artery. I had it in a
Speaker 1: text I can't remember now, but basically the one that
Speaker 1: can the lungs to the heart and then broke a
Speaker 1: rib on the way out went through the shoulder meat
Speaker 1: and the arrow. You could just feel the tip of
Speaker 1: the arrow through that inch thick hide right here. There's
Speaker 1: your selling point for that heavy arrow. So a little
Speaker 1: bit for sure, Like we we measured it with a
Speaker 1: tape measure were we had the luxury, as you know,
Speaker 1: on that ranch you can get a truck pretty close.
Speaker 1: We had to drag him maybe a hundred yards by hand,
Speaker 1: got him into a truck, took him back hole, guts
Speaker 1: in and everything so that we could really do fold
Speaker 1: that cropsy on what happened, you know when that arrow
Speaker 1: hit him, And we figured we got somewhere between like
Speaker 1: thirty six and of penetration with that arrow. Um, which
Speaker 1: is pretty good. That's great. Um. Like I said, I
Speaker 1: think had it not been that inch thick hide on
Speaker 1: his chest, the broadhead would have been poking out if
Speaker 1: not had gone all the way through, you know, but
Speaker 1: it stopped it. Um. But yeah, so it worked well
Speaker 1: and it was cool because we got to dissect it.
Speaker 1: Troy has um he used to be a respiratory therapist,
Speaker 1: so he's very uh intimate knowledge about the respiratory system
Speaker 1: and how that all that stuff works. So it's cool
Speaker 1: hanging out with the guy that not only can just go, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: those are lungs and that's the heart, which we all
Speaker 1: can point to and do that, but how it all
Speaker 1: comes together and the different parts of the lungs and
Speaker 1: why there's you know, three lobes of the long here
Speaker 1: and not da dada da and all that stuff, and
Speaker 1: how come it's better to hit the lungs up front here, etcetera, etcetera. Um,
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's that was a nil guy hunt. It
Speaker 1: was hard to drag that thing. I could not drag
Speaker 1: it by myself. I can tell you that, like, not
Speaker 1: even move it for for a picture. And it took
Speaker 1: three of us. You know, he was pretty easy. Then
Speaker 1: have you guys tried to eating on it yet we did?
Speaker 1: I hate it is not well again, it's just one piece,
Speaker 1: just a loin, But I felt like yours was pretty tough. Um. Interesting,
Speaker 1: I've been I'm I mean, I've I guess I've hunted.
Speaker 1: No guy four times total, like only once was it
Speaker 1: a dedicated no guy hunt. But I've never had tough meat,
Speaker 1: and I've served him in my restaurants. Uh, but you
Speaker 1: know from Broken Air Ranch, these are still animals that
Speaker 1: are I mean they're in high fence, but it's they're
Speaker 1: still shot. Yeah, it's a few hundred thousand acres of
Speaker 1: high fence and they're still shot. And I've never we've never, ever,
Speaker 1: ever once served tough meat and not we're not. We
Speaker 1: don't serve the loin. We start the legs um and
Speaker 1: it's still supertendent. When we get our Warner Brunt. What's that?
Speaker 1: When we get our Warner brunsler sheer force test and
Speaker 1: bring some of that too. Yeah, you can bring some
Speaker 1: of yours in. I don't have any left of mind.
Speaker 1: I don't think I'd like to bring most of years
Speaker 1: into burger. I'd like to bring a chunk of my
Speaker 1: I got some orcs waiting for dinner to night, but
Speaker 1: I would like to bring a hunk of that and
Speaker 1: throw it on the old tester. My question for you
Speaker 1: is we should have Chester run it so he can
Speaker 1: go back to be in Chester with the tester. Do
Speaker 1: you know me? Like the official administer Chester. I'd love
Speaker 1: to because then it would be like a great we
Speaker 1: only have to buy one lab coat. One lab coat
Speaker 1: for Chester was sort of a selling point. Um, like
Speaker 1: are you doing like a M medium rare type preparation
Speaker 1: super rare? You are, yeah, so we'll serve it as
Speaker 1: tartar a lot will serve to um and does that
Speaker 1: work that you can? But is there something like it's
Speaker 1: it's like free range gun harvested or do they trap them? No,
Speaker 1: gun harvested. But but you'r X. You're getting out of
Speaker 1: Texas into Georgia, so you can do that. Well, I
Speaker 1: don't know if you could do it everywhere. I know
Speaker 1: that these guys that broken Ara Ranch can do it.
Speaker 1: You know they have they have that set up. But
Speaker 1: they're also so this is helicopter hunting that they're doing
Speaker 1: as well, and it's going through us D A inspection. Correct,
Speaker 1: there's the us D A processor on site. Like that's
Speaker 1: a process us so. Um, but I'm we call everything
Speaker 1: is harvested to order. So like we call them in
Speaker 1: and say, look we're looking for you know, this is
Speaker 1: what we need. Uh, and then we have to kind
Speaker 1: of wait it out for them to go harvest him
Speaker 1: when noil guy, it's never an issue because the populations,
Speaker 1: as you said, are so huge and honestly, they already
Speaker 1: they were telling me that they're running into issues, some
Speaker 1: sort of pressure from political pressure um with nail guy
Speaker 1: because of this um this like bovine fever tick that that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they're doing that and they're like trying to inoculate them
Speaker 1: with these sprayers. So it's like what they explained to
Speaker 1: me is that, you know, this has been a serious
Speaker 1: issue like back in the Yeah, exactly. It's not that
Speaker 1: it it doesn't in any way actually affect the nil guy,
Speaker 1: the nil guy or the carrier. Um. It massively affects
Speaker 1: cattle and once the thing someone looked at them it's
Speaker 1: a fever tick like they call it a cattle and yeah,
Speaker 1: I know that that's causing heat between ranchers and nil
Speaker 1: guy exactly. And it's I mean, the issue is that
Speaker 1: in the early nineteen hundreds, Texas lost like of its
Speaker 1: cattle population to this tick. And that's why there's that
Speaker 1: quarantine zone in between the Texas and Mexico border where
Speaker 1: they literally you know, you have cowboys patrolling it every
Speaker 1: single day, pushing cattle back onto Mexico or keeping US
Speaker 1: cattle away from that zone. But the noil guy, they
Speaker 1: don't respond to bait, you know, So you can't bait
Speaker 1: him into um with cattle and white tail. They literally
Speaker 1: walk them through a like through a tick bath, and
Speaker 1: that's how they deal with it. Yeah, that we covered
Speaker 1: on the podcast a couple of years ago. I remember
Speaker 1: we covered that a live show um where oh speaking,
Speaker 1: which we're doing a live showing buildings a couple of
Speaker 1: months three. I'll talk about that for a second. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: what's that. Yeah, we're doing a live showing buildings I
Speaker 1: May three as part of the show. During the whole show,
Speaker 1: Seth's gonna be flashing in the flip flops. See there
Speaker 1: you go. That's your double. There's gonna be a dramatic spotlight,
Speaker 1: like like the most dramatic theater lighting you've ever seen,
Speaker 1: and he can't talk, illuminating seths work area, and he'll
Speaker 1: be flashing and stretching for the whole show. The show sucks.
Speaker 1: The show sucks. You just watch Seth for ninety minute,
Speaker 1: and I believe believe you buy a ticket, you're gonna
Speaker 1: get a copy of the new book with tickets. So
Speaker 1: it's that's like publication week of Outdoor Kids in an
Speaker 1: indoor Yeah, if you need it, if you need a
Speaker 1: reference point inside world. Yeah, we went back and forth
Speaker 1: in it, so damn many times. Outdoor Kids in an
Speaker 1: Inside World. That's publication week. May third live show and buildings,
Speaker 1: and we're bundling tickets with a book, and we'll talk
Speaker 1: a lot about that type of stuff and about our
Speaker 1: kids and our sports. That's gonna flash. I wish we
Speaker 1: could think where you had a little wood stove set
Speaker 1: next year and you could be burning raccoon fat in it,
Speaker 1: but I don't know if that's the fire department. Yeah,
Speaker 1: uh Yanni. We should have a meat eater cooks with
Speaker 1: you're no guy. It's I mean, they produced a lot
Speaker 1: of meat, so you should have. So when you um,
Speaker 1: when you're selling it, what do you sell it as?
Speaker 1: We generally we sell We used to write nil guy,
Speaker 1: but then people they couldn't pronounce it, so like people
Speaker 1: don't order things they can't say they feel like they
Speaker 1: don't want to feel stupid, So we've got to pass
Speaker 1: up in Yeah, so we just put South Texas Antelope
Speaker 1: like and then we sell it that way. Really yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: don't do a little parentheses. We so, you know, a
Speaker 1: gun show, we go to the table and tell you.
Speaker 1: So we say, no guy, but on the written menu
Speaker 1: it says South Texas antelope, and so we'll go, hey, guys,
Speaker 1: this is the antelope. It's it's actually the animals, something
Speaker 1: called a nil guy, which means blue bull, roughly translated
Speaker 1: from Hindu da da da da da. We give them
Speaker 1: the explanation, so yeah, I'm with you. Sell it that way,
Speaker 1: and it sells the fucking love it. They lose their minds.
Speaker 1: Are you afraid about giving up your source? Because because no,
Speaker 1: not at all, And in fact I would act no,
Speaker 1: I would. I would bang the drum for those guys,
Speaker 1: because um, yeah, we get black buck from them. Um,
Speaker 1: we get nil guy, we get um what else do
Speaker 1: we get from We don't actually get hogs them, but
Speaker 1: but we could certainly be getting hogs from them. Um,
Speaker 1: we can get fallow deer on occasion, on a rare
Speaker 1: occasion from them, just you know, kind of a luck
Speaker 1: of the draw thing. They'll call me and say saw
Speaker 1: a fallow dear today, like that kind of thing, So um,
Speaker 1: I'll take it. Yeah, exactly, do you buy a guy
Speaker 1: by the pound. Yeah, it's expensive. Give me a rough ballpark.
Speaker 1: I mean, this is the part that I'm probably like
Speaker 1: throwing them, like throwing them under the bus here. Just
Speaker 1: gonna be a rough ballpark. You could be in the
Speaker 1: thirties and forties a pound, you know, so that's the meat,
Speaker 1: not live waight correct. Yeah, And I mean we mistakenly
Speaker 1: one time bought a whole Neil guy. That was not
Speaker 1: a good decision. Turns out that's really hard to you know,
Speaker 1: when you had a restaurant, you're like, all right, well,
Speaker 1: now the rest of the walk in is just for
Speaker 1: storing this. Um Like yeah exactly. We ordered two sides
Speaker 1: of nil gay and they were like, you don't want that,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, yes, I do. We process everything in house,
Speaker 1: and they're like, all right, idiot, So they said it. Um,
Speaker 1: it's also cost the fortune. It was the most expensive
Speaker 1: thing to ship in the universe. That um now we
Speaker 1: get now we get sometimes bone in meat. But we
Speaker 1: actually we've just worked with them for so long, forever
Speaker 1: a decade. Now that they've gotten where they will kind
Speaker 1: of custom send stuff to me. You know, if I
Speaker 1: tell them this is what I want, if I if
Speaker 1: I was in Atlanta and I walked in the Gun Show, Uh,
Speaker 1: is it on the menu right now? Actually, it might
Speaker 1: be on the menu right now. I have to look
Speaker 1: and see. We you know, Gun Show rewrites the menu
Speaker 1: every day. Yeah, if you always got a thing going, no,
Speaker 1: we all we generally have some form of a game
Speaker 1: product at all times. Um. But I think right now
Speaker 1: we are selling Feral Hog because we just filmed Safertooth
Speaker 1: there and so we're still doing that. But that's what
Speaker 1: you know, when I was when I was talking about
Speaker 1: game and restaurants, I need to expand the list of
Speaker 1: things I think that are worth recommending to people, and
Speaker 1: you know, rather than buying like like like a lot
Speaker 1: of stuff about of Texas. Like I always think like
Speaker 1: bison is a great thing to buy because it supports
Speaker 1: the animal, not vice versa. Um, I think no guys
Speaker 1: like that. I definitely don't like the pendelk operations, right,
Speaker 1: but there's so many like those Ferrells out of Texas. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think, especially the exotics out of Texas. I think
Speaker 1: you really should. I think more chefs should be using them.
Speaker 1: Nil Guy especially honestly, like nil Guy populations are getting
Speaker 1: super high there are a lot of people in power
Speaker 1: who want massive calling to take place. Um, if there
Speaker 1: was an economy behind that meat going to actually be
Speaker 1: used as opposed to just being shot and left, um,
Speaker 1: I would that would be a lot better situation. They're
Speaker 1: I mean, they're gonna have to reduce the population one
Speaker 1: way or the other, and I'd rather people be selling
Speaker 1: them in restaurants personally, do you uh, when you guys
Speaker 1: grind it? Do you ever grind it? Now? We never do.
Speaker 1: If we're grinding, you put some fat in it? Right?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, there's it's just non existent for the
Speaker 1: best part. So any preparation we do is always paired
Speaker 1: against a ton of fat. So that's why tartar works
Speaker 1: really great, because you're talking raw meat that's folded in
Speaker 1: with egg yolks and things like that, so it rich.
Speaker 1: It adds that richness back to it. It's actually that's
Speaker 1: one of the best preparations for super lean meat because
Speaker 1: it bounces out that fact, did you save the hide
Speaker 1: on that thing? I did not? I I did, and
Speaker 1: I wish I would have handled mine better because later
Speaker 1: I wanted to have it laminated to that. You know
Speaker 1: that how Brad has that one it's like got that
Speaker 1: rubber stuff on the underside and it lays out like
Speaker 1: real flat and beautiful. I hadn't noticed it. You haven't
Speaker 1: seen that, dude. It's amazing, amazing, and what's the years?
Speaker 1: Just kind of wrinkly, just and I should I wish i'd.
Speaker 1: If I could do it all over again, I would
Speaker 1: have gone in and skinned it very carefully and sent
Speaker 1: it to like a like a delicate tannery and had
Speaker 1: it laminated to that. Because the thing about those is
Speaker 1: they laminated to this rubber stuff. And that's some bitch.
Speaker 1: Lays so flat you could run a vacuum over it
Speaker 1: like flat. I just found it dulls your knives like
Speaker 1: you're processing knives like crazy because that skin is so gnarly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's crazy. Yeah, get on his flank is he's got
Speaker 1: like a wild pig shield and that crazy hair. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: exactly like you decided to cut a wire brush up
Speaker 1: with your knife. Exactly. Yeah, honest, you should talk about
Speaker 1: that that patch that you that patch of hide that's
Speaker 1: super thick that you post a picture of that already did.
Speaker 1: But yeah, basically from you know, why you said tonight
Speaker 1: is because this room feels like the evening together, I
Speaker 1: was going to start dipping some strawberries and chocolate. Our
Speaker 1: our track lighting is out. We got some mood lamps
Speaker 1: going oh yeah, dude, but yeah, basically from from lavender
Speaker 1: candle really sets it off from the tips of their
Speaker 1: shoulders wrapping around the you know, their chest, the hide
Speaker 1: goes from It's still a dang thick and tough hide
Speaker 1: behind that, you know, going towards the rear of the animal,
Speaker 1: but that chest it literally turns into darn near an
Speaker 1: inch thick. It's not like it almost looks like it's
Speaker 1: a layer of fat, but it's not. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: an inch thick hide. And the best we can figure, well,
Speaker 1: there's probably two reasons. One when you're fighting sharp ass hordes,
Speaker 1: when you're fighting with your buddies. And yeah, the bull
Speaker 1: I killed the same thing with the bull you killed.
Speaker 1: It had three holes in it where you could take
Speaker 1: your pointer finger and just and and jam it to
Speaker 1: the second knuckle in there and then you'd feel the
Speaker 1: end of it. Right, So they're constantly getting these wounds.
Speaker 1: But also think somebody pointed out on Instagram that like, yeah,
Speaker 1: they also where they are originally from Bengal tigers chase
Speaker 1: them around, you know, and and jump on their neck.
Speaker 1: So that could be a pat because that might be
Speaker 1: why their radar, like their long range radar, is calibrated,
Speaker 1: the risk calibration is different than the risk calibration on
Speaker 1: their short range radar. They also have not great sense
Speaker 1: of smell. I've always been told like that, don't really
Speaker 1: worry about the wind when you're hunting nail Guy, Like
Speaker 1: they don't smell that great. But we were told that too,
Speaker 1: and I had instances where I think I felt the
Speaker 1: wind on my neck, didn't get winded, and then had
Speaker 1: instances to where I'm like, the only way we just
Speaker 1: got busses because we got winded. So um, I was
Speaker 1: reading something a while back after the last Neil Guy
Speaker 1: hunt that I was on um about the fact that
Speaker 1: in India, you know, we call him an antelope, they
Speaker 1: consider them cattle and so they're they're sacred just like
Speaker 1: any other. Yeah, they don't eat them. Yeah, for that reason,
Speaker 1: that all of their pressure in their native environment was
Speaker 1: actually from colonialism, like from you know, English folks hunting them.
Speaker 1: So they don't hunt them, they don't do anything with them.
Speaker 1: They just let them do their thing. Interesting. Oh ye, honest,
Speaker 1: when when can people go watch The hunt Man? May
Speaker 1: of yeah, that because that's the schedule that um only yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I'm working to push that up a little bit.
Speaker 1: But yeah, man, this this production house is a busy
Speaker 1: production house. And and I'm filming a year out. Huh,
Speaker 1: Janni dies, we won't even really feel it for a while. Yeah,
Speaker 1: as long as plenty of stuff coming, as long as
Speaker 1: you can come in and uh, you know, do my
Speaker 1: v O for me, Yeah, it would be good. We
Speaker 1: got plenty of time to find a stand in maybe
Speaker 1: like wow, yeah, yeah, over a year, like we're playing
Speaker 1: I'm playing anything like that. Yeah, I mean we're we're
Speaker 1: editing and putting out season three of my show, which
Speaker 1: will be out this May and then but this was
Speaker 1: already filming for season four. I can tell you three.
Speaker 1: The last week of July, I'll be out my fish check.
Speaker 1: That's about it. That's about it, and I'll be watching
Speaker 1: Yanni's thinking May Yeah yeah, um yeah, my. I think
Speaker 1: the last thought on that, which was cool to hang
Speaker 1: out hang out with Troy, being that he knew the
Speaker 1: insides of the animal. He puts a lot of emphasis
Speaker 1: on that, like we all should know that, and it
Speaker 1: makes total sense, right, like we all kind of know,
Speaker 1: like you know where to shoot the animal, right, but
Speaker 1: right neal boiler room. Yeah, exactly, that's like the level
Speaker 1: of detail, right. And all we heard about was how
Speaker 1: their vitals were like way up front and it's blocked
Speaker 1: by the big shoulder. Well, you know what when we
Speaker 1: did this like side view netcrop scene, literally just like
Speaker 1: left everything as it was and took the shoulder off,
Speaker 1: flipped the ridge cape cage open so you could see
Speaker 1: it all. But it turns out, no, it really wasn't
Speaker 1: tucked up more than an elk or yeah, kind of
Speaker 1: where you think it would be. I think that's I
Speaker 1: think that's a misnomer due to this whole antelymp thing
Speaker 1: because something like a scimitar orys that's very much the
Speaker 1: case that I mean, it's it's vitals are that little
Speaker 1: orange stripe on the front of it is where they
Speaker 1: all live. And if you shoot behind that, so you're
Speaker 1: shooting in front of the front shoulder, Like if you
Speaker 1: get behind that, it's just gonna pass through and it's
Speaker 1: gonna just I mean, it will probably die eventually, but
Speaker 1: it's just gonna trod on away. But yeah, just the
Speaker 1: importance I think that, you know, we should all take
Speaker 1: the time. Like I think now I'm gonna like netcropsy
Speaker 1: like every unless I'm just out of time and it's
Speaker 1: super dark, but like it's so educational to take the
Speaker 1: time and as you're butchering, you know, really look and
Speaker 1: see what happened inside there, what what your bullet did,
Speaker 1: what your arrow did, and try to figure it out,
Speaker 1: you know. And I just think the next time you
Speaker 1: take a shot, you're gonna be that much more confident
Speaker 1: about Like, Okay, I'm not just aiming for the longest,
Speaker 1: I'm aiming for this specific thing. Did you settle on
Speaker 1: netcropsy after consideration of necropsy? I've heard of both ways. Well,
Speaker 1: I thought that long ago we were corrected to say netcropsy.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think both are right. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: like coups and cows. Yeah, I still think that you say,
Speaker 1: Bagel kind of messed up. But Bagel, I don't know
Speaker 1: what you say it once Bagel, bagelage Bagel. You know
Speaker 1: you want to Bagel, I can't do it. Say where
Speaker 1: I'm not hearing it. It's like he's Bagel. He's corrected
Speaker 1: I think, okay, he's a bag old guy. Yeah, well
Speaker 1: I know, but yeah, I'm trying to get it right. No,
Speaker 1: I would be like ride it down to be like
Speaker 1: natural space bag bag. It's definitely big. It's a little
Speaker 1: vague bag bag, say it once, vague vague. I didn't
Speaker 1: get one of those jobs where you pronounced stuff on
Speaker 1: the internet. You just you just you just recorded an
Speaker 1: audio book. So I'll say it all a lot of ways.
Speaker 1: Give him three for everyone, like none of these are correct.
Speaker 1: By the way, I'll start off bigging like I don't know.
Speaker 1: You could say, yeah, I think these are all fine,
Speaker 1: They're all acceptable. You should do an app like Siri
Speaker 1: where people can just like down you just record everything
Speaker 1: like questions, tast bagel crops. Before we wrap up here,
Speaker 1: I just want to mention that new Yanni's book report
Speaker 1: jingle you heard up top. Oh that was just sent
Speaker 1: in by some guy. Yeah, his name is Barry Rigby.
Speaker 1: So thanks for writing that and sending that in serious. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: Yanni pointed that out to me. Oh, next time we record,
Speaker 1: remind me to tell you the story about the fleas
Speaker 1: over at my house. My skin is still crawling. I
Speaker 1: had to get the shower, getting getting himself in trouble,
Speaker 1: a lot of trouble. Well, there's only the reason we
Speaker 1: can't talk about that around that time. It's funny story, Kevin,
Speaker 1: Thanks man, Good seeing you by, guys. I'll be back
Speaker 1: in a couple of weeks. We'll pick up where we
Speaker 1: left off. Yeah, because I had I had a bite
Speaker 1: of your to go to gross from from gross to great.
Speaker 1: But yeah, we should have done it the other way around.
Speaker 1: Hog holiday ham Ye like wet ass s exactly. Yeah. So,
Speaker 1: by the way, those things don't taste. Did Garrett tell
Speaker 1: you that he has an extra one at his house?
Speaker 1: He probably didn't tell you that any I knew. I
Speaker 1: knew he was going to hold out on you, guys.
Speaker 1: There's a whole other ham at his house that'll be
Speaker 1: ready to be smoked. Hold his feet over the fire
Speaker 1: on the twelve. He's got to pull that thing out
Speaker 1: of the brine and cook it. That was I'm not joking.
Speaker 1: I hope Jesse Griffiths isn't listening. That might be the
Speaker 1: best thing I ever ate. That might be the best
Speaker 1: thing I ever ate. That came off a wild pig.
Speaker 1: Did you hear that, Jesse? Hold on let me put
Speaker 1: you on speaker. No, seriously, I've got four of those
Speaker 1: hams in the freezer right now, so you could send that.
Speaker 1: We filmed that recipe yesterday, so but I can't wait
Speaker 1: six months. No, But I mean, like I feel like
Speaker 1: you could probably get access to some of that footage.
Speaker 1: But I'll send you the recipe. It's actually if anybody
Speaker 1: like preliminarily wants that recipe. Um, if you have my
Speaker 1: second cookbook, Pure Pork Awesomeness, it's in there. It's just
Speaker 1: not set for for Farrell Hogs. But you don't need
Speaker 1: to you don't need to adjust it like you use
Speaker 1: the exact same recipe. It's in there. Go get it.
Speaker 1: Is there still some in the fridge. So I saw
Speaker 1: Sean Wever was sacking it up. Yeah what Yeah? No,
Speaker 1: I thought he was like loaded in a sack, taking
Speaker 1: it with him to say, loading it into a double
Speaker 1: like a double ziplock, kind of a messy double zip
Speaker 1: block situation. He put it in a handkerchief and tight
Speaker 1: around a stick. And then yeah, he's like, I was
Speaker 1: planning to leave this afternoon, but turns out you can
Speaker 1: go right now. See if Bye? All right, man, guys,
Speaker 1: Thanks everybody p